Slashdot Mirror
New Computer Powered By PoE
BlakeCaldwell writes "BBC News is reporting about a new PC that's powered via a network cable rather than through a wall socket. The computer only requires 12 watts, lower than the upper limit of 15.4 watts that power over ethernet (PoE) can supply. FTA: 'PoE could end up being a universal power supply system as the cables and connectors for it are the same all over the world. By contrast power sockets and plugs differ by country.'"
I want Power over 802.11ZZZ
I was thinking that this had to be one of the most brilliant ideas ever, right up until I realized that users are moving toward WIFI for connectivity. If this had srrived two to three years ago, we might all be using it now. But at this juncture? Likely to be ignored. :-/
Javascript + Nintendo DSi = DSiCade
Was I the only one who saw that as powered by Pieces of Eight? That must be one expensive computer... but at least it recognizes that most people will use it for piracy.
(Damn, I play Puzzle Pirates way too much. And yes, I know the answer to my question was yes.)
It's better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.
- E. Debs
I find it more interesting the idea of a new PoE standard that will provide more power. Of course, those of us that have invested millions in the current PoE "standard" for VoIP and wireless will need to forklift everything.
SCNR
Nevermore, nevermore! I'll get a job at Best Buy before I support you power whores.
I wonder which will work better- The Telltale Heart, or The Raven? Maybe The Cask of Amontillado?
From TFA, is 35 watts enough to run most laptops? I have a pig of a laptop (Sager 8890) that draws 120 watts.
PoE = Peace on Earth. Purity of Essence.
Will this also work over WiFi?
FTA: 'PoE could end up being a universal power supply system as the cables and connectors for it are the same all over the world. By contrast power sockets and plugs differ by country.'"
This seems to fit somewhere along the lines of IPV6 and enough ip addresses for your toaster to be ip enabled. Yea... No toast today, the network is down.
Slashdot has discussed "Power over Ethernet: IEEE 802.3af" and how the Apple AirPort Base Station supports POE. There also appears to be a website dedicated to Power over Ethernet. Ummmmm ... maybe I could use POE to power my christmas lights ... although I'd need a bit more than 15 Watts! ;-)
Then how do you overclock that sucker with only LAN power?? Can I at least splice multiple LAN lines together for more power?
I already have this: http://internet.ls-la.net/pictures/images/Computer /Etherkiller.jpg
to power up computer that "friends" give me to be fixed.
...is that the current equipment out there is probably not actually delivering all of the wattage that the specification calls for. For example, a cable modem draws about 20 watts from the wall; even if it's delivering all of that to computers on the network with no losses... then it can only support one of these machines without drawing power from somewhere else.
PoE was using unused lines in the ethernet cable,
right? and gbit new uses all 4 pairs, so is that the end of PoE?
can plugging in a gbit network card into a PoE enabled line damage that card or the computer?
This works using the "unused" lines of CAT5. Sure, they're unused for 10/100 ethernet, but this will be much less useful once everyone is using Gigabit ethernet (which uses all 4 pairs).
when they start Power over Wifi...
There has been an error!
Did I get first PoEst?
wut?
single Point of Failure? There, I thought you could.
(I know that's PoF, not PoE, but hey.)
sigs, as if you care.
Not everyone has PoE at home, so this solution would only be ideal for businesses. You can of course always get a PoE cable that will plug in to the wall socket through a transformer and the ethernet jack, thereby combining the power, however that defeats the purpose of PoE, because most devices out there support both 110V and 220V, and they all have universal connectors and power supplies capable of handling whatever voltage you throw at them. An you'll still be plugging it into an electrical socket. You will also need a helluva lot more power to run processor intensive apps, so this would pretty much limit this machine to secretaries and web surfers/majority of home users - see above on why this is not a solution for home.
So in the future everyone will be getting their power from ethernet cables and their connectivity through power lines?
A computer powered by Teletubbies??
I don't know, I think that even if it does work and doesn't damage network cards that it would still be confusing to consumers...
Wise men say, "Forgiveness is divine, but never pay full price for late pizza."
I guess the power company gave up on providing internet access over the power lines...Power over the internet lines is the next best thing!
horrible joke, mod low! I'd like troll please.
This sig has been removed pending an investigation.
...sounds like a job for Nikola Tesla... for which you will need a tin foil ha*bang*fizzz* ~#$£$%&)67~NO CARRIER
The Power over ethernet website which has links to articles and products (check the dates on some of the articles).
A good article about ins and outs of PoE
Don't confuse PoE with Perl Object Environment or Poe Puzzle
Nevertheless it is a good concept with lot of benefits (as well as drawbacks)
Cost savings. PoE significantly reduces the need for electricians to install conduit, electrical wiring, and outlets throughout the facility. In larger installations, these items can be relatively expensive. Consider an installation of 50 or more access points. This requires lots of conduits, outlet boxes, electrical wiring and the time of a qualified electrician. The low costs of deploying PoE compared to traditional electrical circuits leads to worthwhile returns on investment.
Flexible access point locations. With PoE, a wireless LAN designer has greater freedom to locate access points. You don't need to depend on only locations within short distances from AC outlets. The independence from AC outlets also makes it easier to relocate access points in the future if needed to fine-tune RF coverage or increase capacity. Thus, PoE enables companies to more easily maximize the performance of a wireless LAN.
Higher reliability. Systems with fewer wires tend to be more reliable. With WLANs not using PoE, cleaning people may unplug an access point to use its AC outlet to power vacuum and buffing equipment. Electricians rewiring electrical circuits could inadvertently cut power to an access point. PoE eliminates the possibility of situations that disrupt the operation of the network.
Enhanced operational support. Many PoE devices implement SNMP (simple network management protocol), which enables support staff to remotely manage the electrical power supplied to the access points. For example, support staff can disable a PoE-enabled access point by shutting off its power after detecting a breach of security. The temporary disabling of the access point can protect against an intruder from continuing unauthorized access to corporate systems. Other SNMP-based features enable the monitoring of the condition and consumption of power, which enhances the ability to ensure smooth and efficient network operations.
Simpler international development. For manufacturers, PoE offers the benefit of the vendor not needing to provide different power cords for various countries. This not only helps keep the cost of access points done -- it's one less piece of equipment that installers need to worry about
can be a very bad thing with power over ethernet. I suppose most equipment would be ok with power on the wrong pins since it's probably 5v anyway. However, some equipment (such as cat5 audio/video distribution boxes) aren't usually made to handle power at the wrong place or even worse, if it's at 12v. For the correct app, it's really convenient, but I think "universal power supply" is a little optimistic.
"New Computer Powered By PoS", and was wondering if that meant I could use my old piece of shit computer to power the new one. Oh well.
I think this is cool because it shows how little energy is required. I am now wondering if there would be a way to mount a solar cell on the outside of a laptop that could be positioned in such a way as to catch enough light to make the WiFI people able to use this low-energy computer. Hmmmmmm
I'm not a troll, but I play one on Slashdot.
Umm, who pays for the power? somebody needs to pay for those 12watts. It is not like power is a free commidity. PoE is nothign mroe then a different plug in. WTF is the point.
By contrast power sockets and plugs differ by country.
Which is why I carry one set of adapters for my laptop, and then charge my cell, palm, blackberry, and iPod via the USB on the laptop. Sure PoE might provide enough power to run a laptop, but it wouldn't provide enough juice to recharge the laptop batteries and all the other devices I need charged.
-- If god wanted me to have a sig, he'd have given me a sense of humor.
"PoE could end up being a universal power supply system as the cables and connectors for it are the same all over the world."
Don't you need a hub or switch which supports PoE? Ethernet sockets may be the same all over the world, but how many PoE-enabled ethernet sockets have you seen on a day to day basis?
OK, so if you're powering a router or some other low power device, great!
But this is fairly useless for powering anything else. Sure, you can build a computer running on 15 watts. It just won't be able to do anything useful.
Consider that a "small" powersupply on the market these days delivers about 250W.
I'd be MUCH more intersted in seeing a "hey, we can do useful stuff with only 15 watts!" story than a "and we're drawing the power through the low-voltage wires in the network port" story.
Make it useful and I'll be impressed.
We already have PoU [Power over USB] which was a rehash of PoS [power over serial/parallel] etc...
I think it's good that we can use something like an already existing cat-5 network to power a computer though..
In my case my USB powered 3-port cat-5 switch was handy when I was in France last as a quick-and-dirty means to a network. Can get ~50Mbit/s off it which isn't bad for 2.5 watts.
Tom
Someday, I'll have a real sig.
FTA: 'PoE could end up being a universal power supply system as the cables and connectors for it are the same all over the world.
FTA?? That meaning F*ck the article??.
Seriously, it would be nice to be able to charge your Laptop battery with the Network cable, although current notebooks have a 120~230 AC adapter, I think it is cumbersome when I need to connect: 1. the laptop AC adaptor; 2. the laptop network adaptor; 3. the 2 or 3 USB devices I have (camera, external HD, etc). I end with so much cables for a portable notebook...
Ubuntu is an African word meaning 'I can't configure Debian'
PoE could end up being a universal power supply system as the cables and connectors for it are the same all over the world. By contrast power sockets and plugs differ by country.
That's awesome! It solves the cable problem! I'll just plug my universal AC/DC power supply into....d'oh!
+5:offtopic,but anti-American
Most 48 port PoE switches cannot provide 12 watts to every port. Additionally, the power consumption in the networking closet would be through the roof if you were to specify the availability of 12W/Port. Also this opens up another point of failure on the power-supply path.
This may be true, however not all places use PoE, so you would still have to lug around an injector that may not be compatible with the country you're in.
Also, what happens when more people convert to Gigabit? What if there's no Ethernet drop available, just WiFi?
Neat concept maybe, but somewhat behind the times IMHO.
Never start vast projects with half-vast ideas.
The general idea could apply, however, in situations where we already use PoE technology: places where it's a lot more convenient not to call the electritian in addition to the low voltage cabler. Like in the ceiling for access points and stuff. But... scheez... my WAPs already run Linux. What else do I need?
It would be amazing if all notebooks were built around this. It would finally result in a truly universal power adapter and probably cut down on the travel weight. i.e. no need to carry an ethernet cable - hotel already has one
Idea is great ! But doesnot seems to be practical with Computer having moitor,dvd drive,cd drive....etc. Even If we use USB device which is drawing power from the PC and ultimately from the network which can only supply a limited power. So no of USB devices connecting to the computer will also be very limited. Theoretically if a computer consumes Microwatts it can get power over wireless LAN...So no more Cables!
While there are certain specialized applications where "power over X" is convenient, it shouldn't be used when normal power is available.
Mea navis aericumbens anguillis abundat
Uh, fewer cables and redundant AC/DC converters (wall warts)? Why does every single device need to have a heavy power-processing unit to do the same task of AC/DC conversion? Do it once and make many devices share the low-voltage supply.
[
with only 15 Watts at your disposal.
Most toasters use 1000 - 1500 Watts.
So many projects, so few acronyms.
an ethernet plug is a lot more fragile and prone to 'not snapping in properly' than your average power plug. If some critical control system is powered properly, and disappears from the network, you plug it back in. If it was getting power over that same cable, it now has to boot back up, reinitialize, and figure out where it left off.
Don't get me wrong, it's a nice thought - but personally I've run into a fair variety of RJ45 jacks. Maybe this would finally snub out those people making the shitty ones, so I'm all for that.
cyn, free software and *nix operating systems enthusiast.
So, if I use the power lines for broadband ethernet, will I still be able to use this technology to power my computer, or does it only work for ethernet cables?
Ben Hocking
Need a professional organizer?
I cannot wait to see the possibility of actually being able to fry systems these are plugged into with a DDOS or a malformed power packet =).
What's next switch/surge protectors?
Also think of how lackluster some of the networks you have seen are. Then realize there is live power going over them.
Also wasn't there a time we were told to keep cables away from electrical devices and laughed at people who ran cables over flourescent lights in the drop ceilings. Now the power is running through them. Who'da thunk it?
Establish a GLOBAL standard for power and just go with it. Why not just 12V DC, the already established standard for autos. PoE is such a mickey mouse solution as others have already pointed out will likely confuse people. Pick a plug... anything in the 10mm size should be just dandy.
Perhaps someone who has wired their house for low voltage would share their solutions. IIRC you couldn't have low and high voltage in the same gang box according to the NEC (National Electrical Code - USA), which is unfortunate as that would be the obvious way to get wall current and convert it to low voltage which is apparently a NO NO.
There is no sanctuary. There is no sanctuary. SHUT UP! There is no shut up. There is no shut up.
You'll need to drink only distilled rainwater, because Chlorination is a communist plot. No Vodka either. You must maintain your Purity of Essence, if you want your devices to work.
for the vendor. What this overlooks is that there is a reason designers select proprietary power and data cable connections. It gives that vendor a head start in selling you all the other useful things that plug into that port. The worst offenders are cell phone and pda makers. Notebook vendors are almost as bad. Commodity players might have a reason to adopt a standard to drive costs down, but lots of others do not.
Envy my 5 digit Slashdot User ID!
In your sig are you using a more elegantly worded "I'm rubber, you're glue..." defense?
PS: I know you are but what am I?
If you can plug in a cat5, you can damn near always plug into the 50/60Hz standard AC power anyway.
And that AC power will deliver enough juice to allow you to actually do something with your box. What the heck can you do with 15 watts anyway? Lighting up all your disk LEDs at the same time would probably melt the cat5 anyway.
blow many devices up at the same time
I've always liked the iPod ACs that used firewire cables to charge the iPod & thought Apple (to save money and promote firewire) should standardize all their ACs to this spec and same look.
Yell & scream & rant & rave... it's no use... you need a shaaaave ~ Bugs Bunny
Actually, it works by put 40VDC between the TX and RX pairs. The coupling transformers block the DC before it gets to the PHY. It is compatible with gigabit. POE allows the use of the unused lines. This is needed for a seperate power injector, which can't touch the signal lines.
FTA could also be "From the article".
Will it play Half Life 2?
Slashdot is kind of like Playboy; we aren't here to read the articles.
A wifi version :-)
Wait a minute! I thought the next big thing was ethernet over power, not power over ethernet!
What's going on!?
Oh no... I've entered some sort of "Bizarro World" haven't I??? A world where technologies are turned backwards and inside out without warning! What a terrifying prospect!
... I thought the same thing when I first read it..
damn that game!!
(Not so much the cost of the power as that the system wasn't designed for large scale freeloading.)
One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
It's a very cool idea, but I don't know much about PoE so take this with a grain of salt... if you're putting out DC power over a network cable, won't it be quite limited in the distance it can go?
However the idea of carrying around a battery-less computer and just plugging it into a network is kind of interesting..
Though I'm having a hard time thinking of *serious* advantages.
Why does every single device need to have a heavy power-processing unit to do the same task of AC/DC conversion?
Because the current common 30 gauge wire that is most CAT5 cables produces substantial energy loss due to heat when anything more then tiny watts are passed through it. It is just too much to deal with for any consumer uses.
Jane doe will wonder why she smells burning plastic. IT really has no applicable uses other then custom solutions in which case, there are better preexisting AC/DC conversion solution available.
Would you really want to run your device via an Ethernet cable? I wouldn't.
The spec is quite careful in this regard. The power can be delivered in either polarity, because there is a diode bride at the powered device. Also it does a low voltage discovery phase to determine if the device is POE, and how much current the device can be expected to draw. If it is not POE then no power is deliverd. This also avoid the potential for a scary spark when pluging in a POE device.
There are lots of PoE-powered computers: switches, access points, etc. Many of them have processors running at over 100MHz and many megabyte of RAM--more than powerful enough to run software satisfying the computing needs of most people.
So, the only reason why a PoE-powered computer is "amazing" is because what is sold as a PC these days requires a lot of power, and it requires a lot of power because Windows requires a lot of memory, disk space, and CPU.
Ethernet cables were designed to carry DATA, not power. Running a 12W computer off PoE with any kind of distance to the power providing hub is going to require about 20W of input to make it work - with the 8W difference going to heat the cables.
With all the concern over the leakage current of wall warts, this is an improvement?
Consider the history of bad decisions like this:
Now we have this stupid idea. "But Ethernet is standard world-wide, and power jacks aren't!"
So? How about coming up with a standard power/data services jack and deploying it? It's not like Ethernet jacks were a natural phenominon - they were a standard which was created and deployed.
A nice standard power/data jack, with a standardized supply voltage high enough to move a reasonable amount of power through reasonably sized wires, and a data services jack designed to *move data* would be so much nicer in the end.
Also, consider this: You have your plant with a bunch of these PoE computer terminals, each tapping power from your central hub. Each computer will inject a small amount of noise onto the line - that's just a fact of life. How much will that noise start to degrade the network signal - especially when you start talking about gigabit Ethernet?
What if we just standardize on, say, a pair of Anderson Power Pole connectors supplying 24VDC at 2A max, right under a standard RJ-45 Ethernet jack. Devices which want to pull power and data have a combined plug which mates to both sets of connectors, standard Ethernet devices use the top port only. Standardize on using 14 gauge wire for power.
Now you have a sensible standard power port that can be used internationally, still requires the user to just plug one thing in, and isn't a kludge!
(O.T. What is with
www.eFax.com are spammers
how many cables would it take to run a common space heater or hair dryer in this new universal power supply world?
when it gets under 50, lets circle back on this universal power outlet idea...
The only thing I could fond on their site POET. Apparently stands for Power Over Ethernet Touchscreen.
Were that I say, pancakes?
Power Oveer Etheernet. Makes sense, I guess. Far more sense than what I thought. :-/
:)
The last time I'd seen "POE" was in my favorite movie, "Dr. Strangelove," when the whack-job Air Force General launched a nuclear attack on Rusia, using "POE" as the code on the CRM119(? may have the number wrong) discriminator to verify that any radio signals were correct.
POE came from two phrases the general had scribbled on his note pad - "Peace On Earth" and "Purity Of Essence." I was trying to figure out just how a computer could be powered by Purity Of Essence, especially given all the pr0n online these days
My bad.
Lemon curry?
While neat in theory, and useful in certain applications, in general there are a few practical problems with making "many devices share the low-voltage supply":
1. Current flow goes up as voltage goes down (to get the same number of Watts). You don't want to be transmitting a high DC current because series resistance will eat your lunch: Current * Resistance = Voltage drop (aka V=IR, aka Ohm's law).
2. Following on #1, all the devices sharing one supply need to be relatively close to it.
3. Even for low current applications, different devices need different and sometimes multiple voltage rails. Do you supply them all, or just some of them make the target derive the others?
4. Following on both #1 and #3, DC voltage and more importantly, power requirements change over time, so in the end, you'd likely end up with what you have now... multiple DC supplies, some for older devices, some for newer devices.
Now, a number of these problems could be avoided if you used a high enough DC voltage (let's say 48V), but now you have a safety issue if high currents can be delivered, not to mention that each device would need to step down the 48V - so you end up with the same thing you have now.
-- PGP keyID: 0x4C95994D
For those interested, here's a link to the computer described: Poet 6000
Yes, exactly!
What im going to do, is invent WiFi Power Over Ethernet!
I'll be rich!
You have a few options with PoE.
One thing that I really like is a lot of our resellers just purchase one large UPS for the PoE switches. If the power to the building goes out no need for remote devices to be plugged into indivual UPS's.
Mid-Span hubs, for those who don't want to upgrade their core switches install these between (mid-span) backbone switches and PoE devices. Usually having data and data+power ports. There are also PoE switches where all ports can be configured to support PoE.
Sean Milheim
iDREUS Corporation
There is one potentially interesting effect of this
...
idea:
noisy power supplies can be hidden away.
Such computers can be fanless and quiet
This sounds like the perfect type of computer to use as a thin client, such as LTSP or perhaps ThinStation. No local maintenance, not even any local power requirements. Just plug into any PoE jack and go.
Tired of FB/Google censorship? Visit UNCENSORED!
Please send me gay porn.
Purity of Essence! Or Peace on Earth?
,,,OEP n
...OPE E
,,,POE a
...EOP r
,,,EPO t
...PEO h
OPE... P
POE,,, e
EOP... a
EPO,,, c
PEO... e
Purity of Essence
May god protect us and our precious national fluids. (annoying lameness filter)
It's not expensive, but it may be a bit messy...
The revolution will NOT be televised.
Plug the computer to the network to get power, and plug the nic to the socket in the wall to connect to the internet.
errera hunamum ets
My computer is powered by it's USB port.
Now I can replace my entire datacenter facility breaker/PDU/rectifier bank with a single 6509 and PoE blades! Plus, it'll also route packets!
A few years ago, our department was too cheap to give us proper CAT5 testing tools. We used to stick our tongue to the wire to see if it was connected to the switch. Glad nobody implemented PoE back then or we would've been in for a shock.
Unplugging...it's Friday, and I sure do feel like unplagging something...
more big business is waiting for microsoft, intel etc!
Riiz
The picture of the "ethernet hub" has telephone lines plugged into it, not cat5...
I was thinking how great it would be if Apple did a server version of the mini.
POE for power
optionally delete the DVD drive
add a second/gigabit network interface
These would be great for small clusters or dropping network management boxes at various places on the network.
...so, no gigabit PoE powered computer for you, sir.
(In case it gets /.'ed)
Here's a layout of the keyboard used by this low-power computer:
789+-
456*/
123 =
0.C CE
------
Soekris boxes have had power over ethernet for some time now. http://www.soekris.com/.
You can get PoE insertion devices that connect between your existing hub/switch ports and your building's wiring. But this turns into a big mess when you have all those additional patch cords to connect, and there is certainly some signal degradation when you start polluting your ethernet wiring by sticking a bunch of extra devices inline with each physical segment.
Emphasis mine. Man, you just gotta love how we all UWTMFAs to describe ATSWD and then expect people TJFGI..
*Use Way Too Many Fucking Acronyms *All The Shit We Do *To Just Fucking Get It
(Hey, it's a joke, laugh :-)
Dream as if you'll live forever.
Live as if you'll die tomorrow.
~Anonymous~
I love it.
Insightful, although the post ignores the current problems that exist and the complete lack of feasibility PoE possesses.
I think we need PoWiFi. There, very insightful.
Man, sometimes you mods are just too much.
Thats alot different then most computers which are powered by a PoS (Windows)
"By contrast power sockets and plugs differ by country."
Wrong wrong wrongedy wrong.
Yes, different countries use different mains sockets, and they use different voltages / frequencies.
However, nearly every computer built in the last 10 years has a multivoltage / multifrequency power supply, and they always have the standard IEC socket.
When building a rack system, computers are connected to special power strips that have IEC sockets. Regardless of country, the cabling stays the same.
With Active-PFC power supplies, the voltage selection is automatic. Most notebook power supplies have automatic voltage selection as well. Heck, even my cellphone can run on 220V/50Hz.
For broad general adoption EoP makes more sense to me than PoE. Every single room in the US has a power outlet in it. So, run the network through the power wiring and make devices that can access it.
Cat5 is more expensive and less plentiful than electrical wiring and parts. Everything needs power.
In the actual article the picture is of a phone cord and not a cat-5 cable.
Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life, son.
This thing has been out for a month and so what.... it's powered over PoE. What are you going to do with 12 watts? Have you see this thing? It's not even practical for home use
Now when they can get a min of 250 watts...Then I'll be impressed. The IEEE is constantly working on new standards and I really do see PoE taking off huge, but really.... this is a joke. This PC is just a neat gadget that some guys going to have a trade show.
Sorry... not impressed.
i have seen alot of people complaine that you shouldn't run power over a cat5-5e-6 cable but trust me if you have ever used one with a device that supports it it is nice. and the tech was very well designed. It is wonderful for ip phones and small devices, granted you can't run a computer that will play your games worth a damn but for bizz it will run terminals greate.. if you ever want to see an intresting thing about power savings.. look up (i can't find it right now) Sun Microsystems anual power savings by switching all there users from desktops to terminals - not only does it give them a better way of maintaining there systems and providing users with lots of resources but if they used PoE in conjunction with terminals it would just improve there savings and allow them to place terminals jsut about any were.. and if your argument is with WiFi this tech would be dumb to use.. feel free to build a tesla coil to power your latop.. but be sure to video tape your self using it as i am sure that ebaumsworld would love to have that vid.
'...if only "Jumping to a Conclusion" was an event in the Olympics.'
I'm sure this has some use at the low end but the PCs that most of us use are requiring more power not less. This article said an AGP slot is limited to 41.8 Watts. http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/ati -powercons.html
Even my older ATI 9800 pro needs additional power connector since it needs 45+ watts. Maybe they could make higher gauge netwrok cables? Maybe bring back Coax?
Or better yet, just stop on by.
jbanes@techie.com
608-524-2574
Jerason Banes
2701 E Main St. Lot 120
Reedsburg,WI,US 53959
wouldn't using PoE cause some problems concerning power codes for buildings etc? I know when we have electrical work done here you need a contractor that follows all the codes.
This is just a cover for all the nukes they're planting across the US. Bastards.
Like most of you, the back of my desk looks like a bowl of random-colored spaghetti.
I'd love to see a reduction of wires back there. Not just because it's ugly, but because of the time it takes to plug/unplug when I want to change things around.
I had hoped that BlueTooth would reduce this, but I have yet to see a good selection of BT devices to replace things like my printer, monitor, speakers, webcam, etc.
When they made the USB 2.0 standard, couldn't they have given it more juice to power devices like LCDs and scanners? *sigh*
-David
OK, for low-power devices it could work, but how many such devices do you use, connected to ethernet?
Look at what the two dinosaurs Intel and AMD are doing. They focus on what more amounts to radiators to heat your house than CPU's. I have seen exactly one sign of Intel even trying to do something about this, the P3M, but beside that single item it seems they both are aiming to in a few years require small nuclear power plants; both to power the CPU's and to provide the required cooling.
35W? That's less than the power needed just for the active cooling of many systems today.
That's something I hadn't seen mentioned yet. Speaking of phones gave me an idea:
:P
While it sounds like powering a PC via ethernet might be a bad idea, what about powering a Router? or a Modem? WebCam? VoIP phone?
I see tons of people saying what this can't be used for and how a monitor would push this over the limits of the wires capability to handle the current, but think outside the box
Which brings me back to the original question.
Who pays for it?
Do you think the telco will happily pay for you to power your modem? The power needs to come from somewhere and if it is coming from you it is nothing more then a different plug to your device. WTF is the point of going through all that just to get a different plug. Are you that low on power outlets?
All you need is more time...
...then you can make toast with PoE.
Think a sequence of short duration power bursts confined to a very small area, scanned across and down the toast as the capacters recharge.
I mean, if you can solder with something like this:
http://www.thinkgeek.com/gadgets/tools/69d3/
which is powered by 4 AA batteries.
Whoa... I just got an idea.
If you build it they will abuse it !!
So when are we going to see a thin client based around PoE? No moving parts, stateless, no power cord. Just an LCD, and processor, and enough ram to do a remote X and hold a frame buffer.
Just plug into the network and poof, it works. Low power, low management. Talk about controlling your costs!
A piece of eight is (or was) roughly 12.5 cents. Two pieces, or two bits is a quarter (of eight). Four quarters (eight pieces of eight) made up a Spanish peso, which had a value of one dollar when circulating in the US. More info here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pieces_of_eight
"I'm not impatient. I just hate waiting." - My Dad
802.11Volts DC, anyone?
Thing is, its now 28 days late...
I thought this would be a good idea for notebooks about 3 years ago when cat5 was the primary option, but now that I'm using WiFi, I hardly ever plug cat5 into my computer.
Now maybe if a small generator could be integrated into a mouse... oh wait - the mouse ball is history.... nevermind.
I belive PoE is 48V its a telcom standard
wanted: one clever sig,apply within
IMHO, PoE is at least as dumb an idea as using the same (mechanically speaking) PS/2 connector for mice and keyboards, with color coding to help people choose the right socket. I imagine a kind of color-coding scheme will emerge for powered and regular Ethernet, but it would be a lot simpler to have different connectors in the first place.
Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.
Just wondering as this differs across countries as well.
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some ISP runs me some ethernet to the premises, I'll buy one! Nice for some applications, but you still need a wall socket someplace to start them electrons flowing. With that said, how much juice can you suck out ot the landline before they go nuts on you? I have no idea other than it's probably "not much", probably illegal, impractical and fattening. I need PFTM (Power From Teh Modem)
FWIW, the Panasonic R3 uses between 5W (LCD off, no wifi) and 12W (LCD max brightness, wifi used). You can learn what the real-time power consumption is by reading, for example, /proc/acpi/battery/BAT0/state under Linux.
I have this laptop and I was not aware that Power-on-Ethernet was able to provide 15W. It would be *so* cool to be able to run this laptop with just an Ethernet plug plugged in. You would not have to carry with you anymore the power adaptor (and its cables). Combined with the standard 9h battery, this would be a killer feature.
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Thinking of starting a business in Minnesota? Me too! mnsmall.biz
In soviet russia, ethernet powers the computer.
First you say you want broadband over power lines, now you say you want power over 10baseT.
What's next? Tesla's Broadcast-Power mixed with WiMax?
(actually, not a bad idea. . . "Hello, US Patent office? I'd like to patent WiMax plus Broadcast-power. It's my idea. Yes. Also, fairy dust too. Can I patent fairy dust? Yes. Thank you.")
These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
IMHO, PoE is at least as dumb an idea as using the same (mechanically speaking) PS/2 connector for mice and keyboards, with color coding to help people choose the right socket.
Most modern motherboards have them both wired to the same thing anyway, so it honestly makes no difference if you plug the mouse into the "keyboard" socket. This has been on mobo's for at least the last 10 years or so.
Now I grant you that some still existing boards might care which is plugged where, but the vast majority of boxes that I've used don't. I stopped noticing color coding or the little graphics on PS/2 ports years ago, and just plug it into first noticable port. It's not failed for me yet.
- Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day, but set him on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life.
Book G4 with 12.1-inch display: 50-watt-hour lithium-ion battery provides up to 6 hours of battery life on a single charge
So, the average power usage seems to be under 10W. Even if it spikes to 14 or so, it is still good for PoE. At least it is much better than carrying the extra AC adaptor!
How are they going to power all the LED-illuminated fans, Cold Cathode colored lights, beverage warmers, cassette tape players, cigarette lighters, betta tank filters and coffe makers inside their case and still have enough juice left over to actually use the computer?
Who pays for it?
:). and as far as I'm concerned I don't see the phone companies THAT concerned about tacking 'just one more' fee onto an already complicated phone bill. Tell me I'm wrong on this one...? But that's my take on things.
:) but as a way to make there one less power cable, wall wort, less clutter. Simple Convienience factor. Just as wireless makes likfe easier, this would HOPEFULLY be the same.
Phones have had a power portion to their service for a long time now. How else would you simply be able to plug in an old phone and get everything (Remember the time before wireless, answering machines, fax machines when phones were just phones and worked without Wall Warts?
If I connect a modem that PoE to my computer the power bill is coming out of my pocket. I'd end up spending the same on power, roughly - A modem plugged in the wall or a modem plugged PoE. Either way it's on my power bill OR the phone company is charging me for power 'service' fee.
WTF is the Point of going through all that just to get a different plug. Are you that low on power outlets?
Well as far as I'm concerned, in my eyes it's not so much about the power.
I would use this technology NOT simply as a 'power cost re-locator' or as a way to save on differing power outputs by different areas (god knows that the stupid standards commities would probably put different power outputs on the PoE lines anyways just like fucking DVD area coding. this isn't that soap box
That way you would hopefully have the option of powering via Wallwart (sans wireless connection and no ethernet) or power via PoE (sans a wallwort and no extra power cables to mess with)
And as a side note, I personally DO have problem with power outlets. I have two desktops, a laptop, phone, lights, modem, router, speakers, monitor, TV, VCR, DVD player, mini-fridge, external backup hard drives, burners, etc ad nausium. Those take up ALOT of power plug slots. Add cables to clutter (or spend time uncluttering) Add wall warts to hide. Speaker cables to run. Little by little those cables add up. As someone who deals with all this - ANY device that requires fewer cable(s) would be MORE than worth it if once it started adding up. If I could get my Modem, router, phone... hell if they could come up with a cable powered speaker system (a surround sound type system... not a cheap 'desktop speaker' crap system) I would go for that too.
Yes this would require upgrade parts/power supply, but as someone who's upgrading regularly to keep up with games it wouldn't be that much of a hassle for me personally.
If the ethernet is out on a modern computer it doesn't matter if there is power to the machine or not. Likewise if the computer doesn't have power it doesn't matter if there is a good ethernet connection to the computer. So why not combine them, there is no loss in reliability.
I charge my cellphone from the 110V outlet in my Pontiac Vibe, which has a console mounted plug socket owing to the fact that it is the twin of the Toyota Matrix, and apparently Toyota put 110V in! Very handy, and you have a separate ciggie lighter too if you smoke :)
Existing switches are just not built to power devices using the network cable. Network equipment often runs hot enough as is, and switches/hubs die all to often. I would not want such devices on any network that i was running. More than a few devices of this type would undoubtably cause failure, as the capacity of a switch to provide this kind of power to devices is easily exceeded. With the trend being towards increased power consumption, it is very unlikely that anything but the smallest embedded devices will ever be powered from the network cable (unless you decide to use dedicated spare pairs to deliver DC to you equipment).
Sometimes you don't even need to build special adapters.
For example, the 25VAC wall wart for my modem had the same connector as the 9VDC for my scanner.
When I emailed USR about where to buy a new wall wart they just sent me one free.
I felt a bit sleazy about returning the scanner on warranty, but they really should have some over-voltage protection built into these things.
Don't think of a lowly 15W per PoE connection as a problem, but as a good thing. It forces attached hardware to be designed for ultra-low power.
In this world where PCs are heading towards requiring their own nuclear power generators, that can only be a good thing.
The best wireless power device in the home I can think of is the microwave oven. Given the effects that such wireless power has on my lunch over a span of mere minutes, I do not think mass adoption of wireless power would be a particularly good idea.
Wiring the house in DC if you don't draw a lot of current can make sense, and is done in remote areas where people are running off a 12V DC source (eg. solar or fuel run generator). My parents did that over forty years ago for lighting in a remote area.
I'm too far from a Feed.
:)
Maybe I can have some nanites carry electrons to my laptop in a continuous stream. Dusty, wasteful, but effective
Ethernet in general is a testament to using technology and protocols that are "good enough" rather than well-designed. This is not a criticism either, because commercially this approach seems to win out.
Therefore, I predict that PoE will appeal to the Ethernet community. New power jacks are not their style.
Consider this:
if I begin using PoE in my building here in the USA, in order to be within code, I have to put my ethernet cable in a conduit. While bare wires in walls is ok if it is just for data, but all forms of power lines heave to be enclosed. This issue may not be present in all states of the union but similar unreasonable (I.e. legally imposed) restrictons can hinder any widespread adoption of this. Simply due to the hassle, higher costs of conversions and red tape.
On the other side, I am sure a few, less building code tied, home users may just love a 15 watt PoE powered multimedia computer (think Myth box), I for one would.
Flat panels are still more expensive; so you'll still need power for tubes, or money for panels.
This would still be useful for those little print server boxes; standalone network disks; and for someone to plug in a hidden network sniffer to steal your passwords and confidential data.
Are your Ethernet cables laid in a safe way for such power? what do your local fire codes say? will your legacy card in your old 486 Firewall ironically combust?
40 Volts Direct Current
Transmit
Receive
Direct Current
Physical Interface
power of Ethernet
"I'm not supposed to know a power socket from a computer terminal!"
good, now someone can impliment rfc 3251
"BBC News is reporting about a new PC that's powered via a network cable rather than through a wall socket."
Not all that long ago I heard of talk about delivering network content through the power lines. Seriously.
Kind of reminds me about that Steve Wright joke: I put a humidifier and dehumidifier in a room, and let them battle it out.
the real problem is voltage conversion
dc rocks for long distance transmission especially if that transmission has to be underground or undersea (inductance and capacitance issues basically go away if you use DC) but converting between AC and DC and between different voltages of DC is relatively inefficiant (DC voltage conversion was pretty much impossible before the introduction of the SMPSU).
note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
I was quite disconcerted to see that in fact the computer is not run entirely on the Perl Object Environment (POE). It would be the next step after the perl window manager somebody built. Blerg.