A Pistol Mouse for Your Fragging Pleasure

ErgoSeating writes "In my search for an ergonomic mouse I stumbled upon something called the PistolMouse. This mouse is shaped like a pistol and uses a trigger as the left button but tracks with an optical sensor on the bottom, not the sight or barrel. In a twist of irony, the mouse is ergonomically shaped because the pistol grip alleviates stress on your carpal tunnel-ridden wrist. Its Linux compatible and looks like it could be just the thing to brighten up my desk. Here is a review of the item with some good pictures." Not sure how it's ironic -- the modern handgun reflects hundreds of years of user testing -- but it looks fun, and a hoot to travel with by air.

Comments

Nice, but..

[Anonymous Coward]

The real question is: How good is it for fragging the shit outta everyone?

Re:Nice, but..

[Icephreak1]

The real question is: How good is it for fragging the shit outta everyone?

Not as good as my Razer Diamondback.

- IP

All that testing...

[Amiga Lover]

Not sure how it's ironic -- the modern handgun reflects hundreds of years of user testing

And it's one button. Apple must be onto something...

Re:All that testing...

[winkydink]

And it's one button.

Um, what about the safety?

Re:All that testing...

[Anonymous Coward]

What kind of pansy uses a safety?

Re:All that testing...

[winkydink]

A pansy with all his toes, Hopalong.

Re:All that testing...

[rsrsharma]

No, actually, it has a right click on the trigger guard and a scroll wheel (which I'm assuming also acts like a 3rd button).

Re:All that testing...

[Anonymous Coward]

Look, it's simple. A few of you make some new accounts. Karma-whore away about how Microsoft will go bankrupt in a year and how good Linux is, then when you have modpoints, mod the guy down and get his subnet banned.

Re:All that testing...

[Spy der Mann]

And it's one button. Apple must be onto something...

Wait a minute. If you want apple, shouldn't it be a CROSSBOW mouse? ^_^

Re:All that testing...

[anagama]

It's a funny joke. Let me be a wet blanket.

Some pistols don't have an additional safety beyond those that are built-in. Some incorporate the safety into the trigger itself -- i.e., when you pull on the trigger you automatically deactivate the safety. Revolvers typically don't have an external safety button but are considered safe with the hammer down. If you are paranoid about accidental discharge, you would keep the hammer down over an empty cylinder -- 100% impossibility of firing without pulling the trigger. Newer revolvers usually use a bar between the firing pin and hammer. The bar rises during the trigger pull. In this way, the hammer can be down over a full cylinder and still be completely safe because the hammer physically can't contact the firing pin. Scroll down to page 11 for a nice mechanical diagram.

Re:All that testing...

[Anonymous Coward]

No, actually, it has a right click on the trigger guard and a scroll wheel (which I'm assuming also acts like a 3rd button).

I believe he was referring to an actual gun. You know, like in a humorous sort of way? Get it?

Re:All that testing...

[xenotrout]

I know your comment was a joke, but Sun Microsystems calls their latest mouse a Crossbow. Google image search.

Re:All that testing...

[Deadstick]

Umm, let's see...your typical modern handgun has a trigger, thumb safety, grip safety, slide release, magazine release...

rj

Re:All that testing...

[Master of Transhuman]

Correct. Glocks have three safeties which means you cannot discharge the firearm by dropping it, but they are all released when you pull the trigger.

This is why Glocks are a favorite of law enforcement whose buffoons tend to drop their weapons (thus injuring their fellow officers) as well as forget to take off external safeties in firefights (thus getting themselves killed.)

However, you DO need to practice trigger finger control with a Glock - keep it OUT of the trigger guard until you need to fire.

Re:All that testing...

[m0rningstar]

Well....

Grip safetys are a feature of 1911's (and, admittedly, others -- but primarily 1911s). And while John Moses Browning's design is still extremely popular (I own two and am getting, I think, a third) it's not exactly modern. Even the Browning High Power (P35) doesn't have a grip safety.

Many modern guns are 'slick slides', as an earlier poster said. My Sig P229 (relatively modern) has no 'active' safety -- it has a firing pin block and a decocker but if you pull at the trigger with a round in the chamber it will go BANG.

I think almost all the handguns I can think of are at least 3 button, though. Even the Colt Single Action Army, though the hammer is one hell of a big 'button' :)

Re:All that testing...

[Combuchan]

One of the safeties on the Springfield Arms XD's is on the back of the grip right beneath the, uh, barrel...the part that's made of metal on a polycarbonate weapon.

Anyway, you press it in with the crease between your thumb and forefinger, meaning that it doesn't go off unless you hold it like you mean it. This is in combination with the trigger safety and a firing pin safety.

It's truly ingenious, and it felt like a good, safe weapon. If I didn't have so many lunatics in my life I'd probably have one at home.

Re:All that testing...

[Anonymous Coward]

Everyone other than Glock owners.

Re:All that testing...

[mikael]

Not forgetting this guy, who accidently injures himself at a school talk.

Re:All that testing...

[BenEnglishAtHome]

That's the grip safety. You give the impression that you think this is a novel thing. I'm not saying you actually think so, just that your writing gives that impression.

Since I'm sure you know that grip safeties are, oh, at least a hundred years old, you might want to watch your phrasing a tad more in the future. Ya might give people the wrong impression, ya know. :-)

Re:All that testing...

[Anonymous Coward]

I know this was a joke, but it is actually a 3 button mouse - and the wheel button can be operated from either side. I have one and with the exception of the long trigger/left-button travel it's pretty cool.

Re:All that testing...

[Anonymous Coward]

The first image on there is ...

golly there are some disturbingly odd and wacky things on the web

(safe for work. still odd)

Re:All that testing...

[IPFreely]

THIS is why trigger release safeties are BAD!

My father has a lot of guns he aquired in the 40's-60's. All of them have side switch locks, and when the lock is on, the trigger won't pull, PERIOD. I about flipped when I saw this comment about trigger release safeties. I'd never ehard of that (not that I follow gun news at all).

Over-sized?

[Nifrith]

This product, rather than calling it's feature 'super-sized', chooses to describe it's scroll wheel as 'over-sized'. Obviously compensating for something?

Re:Over-sized?

[SpaceLifeForm]

Clippy: Is that a mouse in your pocket or are you just glad to see me?

Re:Over-sized?

[TerranFury]

Nobody is glad to see Clippy!

Re:Over-sized?

[Farmer Tim]

You raise a good safety issue: its a very bad idea getting people used to holding gun-shaped objects in Clippy's presence.

Re:Over-sized?

[nervous_twitch]

I'd rather see "over-sized" than "super-sized". "Super-sized" is marketing speak.

The new and improved Super Intel Pentium VII Xtra Xtreme blah blah blah..

Re:Over-sized?

[__aatgod8309]

I'm sure Clark Kent's tailor would disagree...

Imagine one of those things

[Bananatree3]

in a fight with a PistolCat. I can't bare to think about it....

[Shudders]

Re:Imagine one of those things

[cloudmaster]

Ahhh! Misuse of irony in the article posting, and now someone who doesn't know the difference between bare (naked) and bear.

ThinkGeek

[LukeTurner]

Been on Think Geek for ages... http://www.thinkgeek.com/computing/input/6e04/

Re:ThinkGeek

[Anonymous Coward]

Thank God, I was afraid I wasn't going to see a single "I've known about this forever!" post. I almost had to scroll off the front page to find this one! LukeTurner, you're the coolest!

Re:ThinkGeek

[DigitalSpyder]

Just as well that link works, the link off the article itself sure as hell doesn't.

Not new

[Anonymous Coward]

I was playing Duck Hunt with a pistol mouse on my NES when I was a kid.

Re:Not new

[Bones3D_mac]

It surprises me that light guns haven't been brought back due to the popularity of First Person Shooters. How difficult could it be to add motion sensors to one... so you could tilt the gun to strafe/move, rotate to turn and lift/drop for jump and crouch?

Re:Not new

[Kesh]

Especially with the advent of Bluetooth. Cuts the need for a cord or IR sensor, so you can wave the light gun around more freely.

Re:Not new

[NeoChaosX]

My guess would be political corectness. Considering that you can't bring a nail clipper onto planes in this era of "there's no such thing as too much security", trying to sell a controller that's shaped and functions like a gun would get the manufacturer a lot of bad PR.

Re:Not new

[Mr.Zong]

Like everything in life, it has to do with the muscle composition of your average geek.

Holding a 1.5 lbs light gun up for 20 minute intervals makes girly arms tired.

Re:Not new

[Lisandro]

Because it's not simple. The same movement you would need to steer around is the movement needed to aim at certain parts of the screen - which is what you'd use the gun for, otherwise it becomes a fancy mouse, letting you only shoot at the center of the screen. A lot of the "immersiveness" of FPSs comes from the fact you're pretty much free to move and look/aim arround.

I remember the Time Crisis series at the arcades used a lightgun and a pedal to take cover / reload the gun. I think that's pretty much as far as you can go without having to actually physically move.

Re:Not new

[Eideewt]

Yeah, but then by the time you've turned you're not even aiming at the screen anymore.

Re:Not new

[_Swank]

because i think that for actual movement on the screen (something that's not just point and click like duck hunter) a motion sensing gun would suck.

did you seriously think this would work? how do you rotate the gun to turn 180 degrees and shoot something? if you raise and lower the gun for jumping and crouching, how do you maintain aim? this is going to be impossible to use. if you turn the gun to the left to turn left, you're either now facing left yourself or your wrist is cocked to the left in a horribly unhealthy position. and you're going to have to stay that way in order to go straight in that direction. this is silly. even sillier if it's a light gun and needs to be pointing at the screen to work.

dumbest thing i've read today. mark me flamebait.

Re:Not new

[khrtt]

It doesn't function like a gun, and it doesn't have to look like one, either. There are lots of other artefacts with a pistol grip that don't look like guns at all - from old 8mm film cameras to hairdriers.

Heck, there are even guns that don't look like guns.

Besides, the classical light pen/gun design relies on the scanning of the electron beam in the CRT display to detect where the thing is pointed, so it won't work with LCD displays. And bluetooth has too much latency for the type of sync required to detect the exact moment when the electron beam crosses the spot on the screen where the pen/gun is pointed - you'd neen some means of feeding the video sync pulses to the gun electronics in real time. Or, an alternative design based on a different principle, possibly with some gizmo installed at the edge of your monitor.

Re:Not new

[BoneFlower]

Pair a light gun with foot pedals and it might work.

Have the primary set be four pedals. Front, back, turn left, turn right. This is the basic movement that you need to be able to do even during other maneuvers, and wouldn't be terribly complicated. Throw in pressure sensitivity, the harder you press the faster you move. That takes care of walking vs running in a very intuitive manner.

The second foot would control another 4 pedals. This is where it would start causing problems. The easy pedals would be strafe left, strafe right, and jump. Those are rarely used in conjunction with each other, but often are used with the other foots pedals.

Crouching is the difficult part. It would be best added to the second foot controller, but sometimes you need to strafe when crouched. That would be easiest to do if the crouch was a switch, but then you might get stuck crouched for a moment longer than ideal. It could also be designed so you can press the crouch and strafe pedals at the same time, but that would be difficult to control. You could put a crouch button on the the gun, but then you mix controllers together, and as convenient as that may be, it locks you into one controller model.

Except for crouching, light guns could work really well in conjunction with a decently designed foot pedal system. Throw in some position adjustment for the pedals, to take care of different sized feet, and it could work. Crouching might be less than ideal, but I'm sure someone could make it functional.

Re:Not new

[Bones3D_mac]

Are you suggesting you need to rotate a mouse 180 degrees to turn around in current first person shooters?

The gun only needs to know what orientation and position represents it's center through calibration. It can then measure the offset from this center position, along with acceleration and rotation speed to respond with the proper on-screen motion.

It would not be that difficult to account for the user focusing on a target. The mouse based system does most of this already.

Re:Not new

[Jorkapp]

Worth noting is that with minimal proper marksman training, even the most girly arms can hold a decent sized rifle for a decent amount of time.

Years ago, playing those Arcade-shooters would tire my arms endlessly. After getting proper marksman training and getting my hands on a NES with a zapper, Round 30 on Duck Hunt Clay Shooting barely tires me.

Re:Not new

[superpulpsicle]

Please... It surprise me even more to not see TouchScreens available. Why have a mouse, a gun? When you can just do the touch-of-death in a FPS game. Anyone would dominate.

Re:Not new

[petermgreen]

the trouble with lightguns is they need to lock to the video signal

whilst i guess you could make one that locked to svga i imagine it would be a lot tricker than doing it for composite video (much faster sync rates)

Re:Not new

[aaronl]

No, you use the mouse to aim and the keyboard to move. Also, you can't properly use a gun with one hand. And gun motion is going to change your aim, not your position.

When badly simulating the real world on a monitor it shouldn't be surprising that you can't adapt real world interactions well.

People have the advantage of being able to move many body parts independantly. Right now, we can't track all of those things for the purposes of a video game. You would need to track head position, body position, eyes, arms, hands, and wrist angles. Then you would need a way of translating motion that didn't suck.

For a FPS, you could cheat the a bit and you would only need body position, gun position and angle, and direction to face. That last one is the difficult one! You could make it happen ok if you had a VR headset type display, but would still need movement translation.

Re:Not new

[Lisandro]

Not a bad idea, but it becomes completely unnatural. How do you use them? Sitting? Standing? Remember that you'd be aiming at the time. Close to the screen? Pedals under your desk?

So now you have to aim with a hand or both, and shuffle you feet between pedals. Unless you're walking, it's not comfortable, nor natural. Pointing a gun, as unsettling as it might sound, it's quite natural with a little getting used to; so is using a mouse and WASD. Not to mention much more comfortable. Your aiming reaction would improve a lot even if you're a lousy shot, but moving your feet like you move your fingers would make for a nice workout aswell.

Time Crisis got this right; to crouch you just leave your foot there and press when needed. Having one pedal per foot could work, but i don't know how much options that gives you to move arround (strafe left - strafe right - forward perhaps?)

Re:Not new

[Lt.Hawkins]

just play paintball or lasertag! ;)

Re:Not new

[_Swank]

no that's not what i'm suggesting, and it's seems pretty obvious that the difference between a gun and the mouse as input device is so different as to make such a comparison moot.

but if you must, you can try things like 1 degree of rotation is 6 degrees of in game rotation. then you can get 180 degrees by rotating only 30. but don't try to turn around too much. you'll also lose fine grained control of your aim. in addition, i think you're going to be needing rather spendy motion sensors. you can maybe get clever by having a non-linear relationship such that 1 degree is 1 degree but 30 degrees is actually 360. if you can get that to work smoothly, i commend you, but you'll hit another big problem with the second thing...

second, a mouse you slide to the side to turn. the distance you move determines how far you turn. once you stop moving it though, you are once again considered at the center position. i think it's obvious that this doesn't work in rotating a pistol in your hand.

this is only for a single direction (left/right) of movement. add the others (up/down, forward/back, and aiming) and you've got even more problems.

but i think the fact that flight simulation games have mock cockpit controls, racing games have steering wheels/pedals, and so on the fact that no FPS games have even attempted a gimicky gun for movement make it pretty obvious that the problem is nowhere near simple to solve.

Re:Not new

[Megaslow]

I'm picturing something like this

Re:Not new

[FLEB]

Not to mention the fact that you'd need some sort of 360-degree treadmill so you didn't run off somewhere.

Personally, I'm suprised no one's come up with a VR-headset type of sensory system using virtual maps that are analogous to a real space. Hell, you could even do some interesting things with laser-tag guns, no visual overlay, but headphones with overlaid gun/laser/environmental sounds.

Or has it been done?

Re:Not new

[sk0pe]

or even better: Laser Skirmish!

Re:Not new

[Tim C]

My guess is that it simply wouldn't work. If raising and lowering the gun is jump/crouch, how do you aim up and down? Not to mention the sheer physicality of holding it up and waggling it about for extended periods - maybe it would be ok for a few minutes at a time, but an hour or two? That's before we get on to the technical problems, of course, like that it simply won't work with an LCD.

Quite often, if you're sat wondering "how come no-one has done $foo?", it's becuse someone tried $foo and it just didn't work out. (That shouldn't necessarily stop you from trying yourself, of course)

Re:Not new

[meringuoid]

After getting proper marksman training and getting my hands on a NES with a zapper, Round 30 on Duck Hunt Clay Shooting barely tires me.

Proper marksman training, me arse.

I played Duck Hunt, got to level 30ish, lost. Then I bought To The Earth...

Ouch.

That game was ferocious. The speed of the missiles that get fired at you is incredible, and towards the end you need to be shooting nearly all of them down or you just lose.

I completed it, and then played Duck Hunt again. It was suddenly just trivial. I played through until I got bored with it, there being no end in sight...

Re:Not new

[mikael]

Heck, there are even guns that don't look like guns.

Gun disguised as key ring

Disguised as mobile phones

Re:Not new

[Demonspawn]

Oh.. it's been done. I've read a few stories on the net about it after my own experience with it. There was one guy in our gaming group who played remote.. hadn't been to one of our LAN parties yet. The guy got endless headshots. We swore he was cheating. At one point we told him he was wasn't allowed to play till he came to the next LAN party so we could see WTF was going on.

Well, we never expeted him to show up, but he did. We paired him up vs. me (I'm resident champion) for some 1 on 1 action. Boom, headshot on me. WTF? The people watching him are laughing. I turn around to see him tapping the screen to shoot my dead body :P

Ends up the guy worked IT at a bank. When they replaced their old touchscreen display for some information kiosk to get a bigger one, he swiped the old one. Told us that they unfortunatly run a few grand for one, even the 15" CRT he had. That was a few years ago tho, and I'm sure the LCD models that exist now are cheaper.

End result? We outlawed them. We still allow a few hardware mods tho, like the center dot on a screen for an un-scoped sniper rifle ;) Oh, and the guy who uses a trackball has some amazing accuracy as well.

--Demonspawn

Re:Not new

[Anonymous Coward]

How difficult could it be to add motion sensors to one... so you could tilt the gun to strafe/move, rotate to turn and lift/drop for jump and crouch?

And if the player decided to showboat and spin the gun by its trigger guard on his finger, it'll generate alt-tab!

Re:Not new

[lumpenprole]

Yeah! You could make a pad and have the controls on it! And call it.... wait for it.....

Dance Shoot Revolution!

Re:Not new

[Mycroft_VIII]

errr, it's a light gun, it's tethered to the fact that it HAS to point to the screen to read which pixel it's pointed at, and you're limited in distance based on how well it's optics can determine which point on the screen it's pointed at.
I suspect this will be more of an issue than tilt and bluetooth won't help that much.
This is kinda like fixing battery life in electric cars by using extension cords.

Mycroft

Re:Not new

[Mycroft_VIII]

hmm Or dance dance revolver.

Mycroft

Re:Not new

[Mycroft_VIII]

I bought a trackball a few years ago because I didn't really have any flat area to use a mouse.
At first it was a pain to get used to, my thumb muscle was actually sore for a couple days from it.
But once I got used to it, it was so much more natural and intuitive that only programs that went out of thier way to fit a mouses peculiarities (actually just Black And White sofar) have given me any troubles. Whereas on most things the trackball is much easier and faster.
I still use the SAME trackball. An original trackman marble from Logitec that cost $75 or so at the time. Over three years ago IIRC. The thing has outlasted most any other pointing device I've ever owned by a factor of at least 4 if not 5 or 6.
I'm not suprised your trackball player has high accuracy. Think about how a trackball is moved vs a mouse. The mouse requires the slopier and more tireing motions of at least the lower arm/wrist muscles (and lots of people use the whole arm) and the whole pick up and move back to continue sequence that results in wasted time and a need for tiny correction as picking up and setting down a mouse usually move the ball a bit.

Mycroft

Re:PEOPLE WITH MOD POINTS: CALL FOR HELP

[Anonymous Coward]

That's an AC, moronic.
(Also, it doesn't work that way)

faster than a speeding bullet

[Rooked_One]

not this new mouse... the slashdot effect. I was really wanting to see those images also.

Oops...

[rsrsharma]

Looks like the XYZ server got shot. That's what you get for playing with guns kids. :P

Firearms the original point and click interface

[arete]

Firearms: the original point and click interface.

Apparently that's all I have to say, but amazingly it's on topic in this story.

Re:Firearms the original point and click interface

[Speare]

Crossbows were made before firearms. Firearms may be merely an evolution of crossbows, where an explosion of powder was used instead of the release of a tense string. Crossbows themselves are merely bows which store your arm power until released, by, um, pointing and clicking.

Re:Firearms the original point and click interface

[arete]

While the firing of crossbows is certainly point and click, the loading and preparation is not. And my understanding is it's not reasonable to leave cocked crossbows lying around.

I usually take "point and click interface" to mean "interface that somebody probably smart put a lot of work into so that any unqualified moron can make do more or less what they want to great effect, although the user may not have considered or understand the ramifications of their actions"

That is why I usually consider cartidge firearms to be the original point and click interface. Sometimes I limit it to semiautomatic weapons and dual action revolvers, because you can click over and over with effect and without thought.

I respect your opinion, though, even though I think you're on a little bit of a slippery slope. Of course, the most effective point and click device is always a well-trained underling... but I was limited myself to technology.

Proving once again that I am a nerd.

Re:Firearms the original point and click interface

[Knara]

I think it probably depends a lot on the type of crossbow in question. There were the little crossbows that just required a little effort to load, while on the other hand there were the bigass ones that you had to set one end on the ground and use a great deal of strength to winch back into firing position.

Obviously the former is much more point and click than the latter.

Gimme a ballista anyday.

Re:Firearms the original point and click interface

[Speare]

Try loading a breach loader. That's not point and click, either. But that's irrelevant. In many cases, a well-trained underling such as a squire could prepare cocked crossbows or an infantryman could prepare his own shot earlier in the day. It's the moment of battle where you need an easy interface, which both weapons provided.

Re:Firearms the original point and click interface

[JasontheMason]

You know, it just ocured to me: aren't guns really a click and point interface? IIRC, one usually cocks the gun (click!) and then points it.

Even if you have a full-auto, it's still not really point and click, it's technically more like point and KABOOM!

Re:Firearms the original point and click interface

[Dun Malg]

I usually take "point and click interface" to mean "interface that somebody probably smart put a lot of work into so that any unqualified moron can make do more or less what they want to great effect, although the user may not have considered or understand the ramifications of their actions"

Funny you should phrase it this way, because this is exactly the reason the crossbow was developed. Archers with regular bows required years of training, while even a particularly thickheaded soldier could be taught to use a crossbow in about a week.

Re:Firearms the original point and click interface

[B1ackDragon]

So long as knit picking is where it's at... I think you meant muzzle loader.

Re:Firearms the original point and click interface

[arete]

I'd accept that the crossbow might've been the first ranged weapon designed with that idea in mind, but I sustain the technology wasn't there to accomplish the goal of untrained killing until the cartidge.

As someone else pointed out, the amount of effort to cock a crossbow isn't necessarily tremendous - but it's definitely there. As I pointed out, using an underling isn't a technological P&C.

And as you point out, it only takes about a week of training for a thickheaded soldier to use a crossbow. To use a firearm at close range only requires watching TV - people successfully kill all the time with only that much training.

(This is not to dismiss the very real skills someone with mastery of firearms has, but they aren't required to be very deadly - at least at short range.)

To address another nit somebody might pick, I'd agree that both crossbows and bows were easier and more effective than early firearms. That was not true for an untrained user by the time of common cartidges.

To answer another uncle-post, with a dual action cartidge revolver, if you put the cartidges in the little holes and close it, all you need to do is pull the trigger.

And when you see somebody cock a gun in a movie, it's almost always stupid. Practicing proper gun safety generally means not having a round in the chamber. So you have to cock a semiautomatic or automatic weapon. Once. And you'd do this well before you entered combat, if you knew it was coming. If you cock your weapon after that, you're ejecting a good round from the chamber - wasting ammunition and making a fool of yourself. If a character walks up to another character and cocks his gun, either the director or the character is a fool.

Re:Firearms the original point and click interface

[roseblood]

All but one of my firearms are breech loading.

All of the breach loaders use brass catridges that enclose the gunpower and firmly affix a primer and bullet in place as well. The range from a few single shots (bolt action, break open, and falling block[my favorite]) to "ugly" military look-alike weapons that appear to be fully automatic (the apearance of full auto goes away when you notice no burst fire setting on the saftey.)

And, to help you along, I think you're thinking of a muzzle loader where powder and shot are loaded into the weapon from the muzzle (this side towards enemy) end of the weapon.

Re:Firearms the original point and click interface

[Anonymous Coward]

"I'd accept that the crossbow might've been the first ranged weapon designed with that idea in mind, but I sustain the technology wasn't there to accomplish the goal of untrained killing until the cartidge."

You are wrong then. The crossbow was indeed developed for untrained personnel being able to beat (specially) cavalry.

It had a terribly important aditional quality too: it was able to greater shoting power than conventional arch as it was needed to tresspass heavy cavalry defenses.

"And as you point out, it only takes about a week of training for a thickheaded soldier to use a crossbow. To use a firearm at close range only requires watching TV - people successfully kill all the time with only that much training."

Obviously he was talking about "military grade" training. You really don't need more training to shoot at close range with an already prepared crossbow than with an already prepared fiream: you just aim your target and pull the trigger.

Re:Firearms the original point and click interface

[Anonymous Coward]

I'd accept that the crossbow might've been the first ranged weapon designed with that idea in mind, but I sustain the technology wasn't there to accomplish the goal of untrained killing until the cartidge.

Soldiers during the US Rev War typically had about 2 hours training in how to load and fire a musket. The only requirement for recruiting was having at least two opposing teeth so that you could bite open a powder cartridge. Even in the days of matchlock firearms, they were designed to be incredibly simple and easy to use. Having fired real muskets from that period, I can tell you that they're very easy to use. Even muzzle-loaders. The funniest part is the movies that show soldiers using the "ram-rod" to pack down the gunpowder after pouring it into the muzzle: that's a good way to set off the black powder. It isn't anywhere near stable enough for that. The rod is actually a safety device used to show that the weapon is properly discharged after use.

I think you underestimate how difficult it is to aim a pistol correctly. For one, you have a very short barrel held at arms length. That alone makes for difficult aiming above point-blank range. For two, most people drastically underestimate how much kick those things have, and don't prepare their muscles nearly enough to maintain a true aim once they pull the trigger. The barrel doesn't have to move much at all to turn a hit into a miss. A lot of people also instinctively close their eyes when they hear the sudden loud noise of a gun going off, which throws their aim off on subsequent shots if they don't pause to re-aim. (just watch the start of Austin Powers for an example. the opening scene was the first time Mike Myers had ever fired a gun, and if you look closely, you can see him blinking when he shot)

While they're very effective at close range if you hit, it should be pointed out that there're documented cases of people unloading an entire magazine (say a Baretta 9mm with a normal magazine of 15 cartridges) at ranges less than 20 feet without hitting their target.

To use any of those weapons consistently, you need training and practice. Personally, I think you should need training before you're allowed to buy them in the first place, because they're very dangerous in unskilled hands. (the only thing worse than shooting somebody -even in self defense- is accidentally shooting the wrong somebody)

Lastly, while you're right about the cocking action in movies, it's not always the director or actor who's ignorant. It's quite often the audience that the director is playing to, actually: most people really don't know a whole lot about firearms or their proper use/safety.

No, I think that if you're going to include pistols in this discussion that's *way* off-topic, you should also allow crossbows. They're actually easier to aim and use/maintain than pistols (the sight down a bolt is more intuitive than the aiming sights on a pistol), and they appeared much earlier.

Re:Firearms the original point and click interface

[VoidWraith]

If you were using an older muzzle-loader (like a musket), it would be point and click. Click is the sound of the spring-loaded flint/steel action striking to ignite the powder.

Re:Firearms the original point and click interface

[Lt.Hawkins]

Mostly right. An SA/DA pistol can be fired without being cocked manually, but cocking the hammer reduces the amount of pressure that the trigger needs to be pulled with.

and practicing proper gun safety means always assuming you have a round in the chamber, and to treat the firearm thusly.

but thats just me nitpicking on a site that I don't usually get to nitpick on ;)

Re:Firearms the original point and click interface

[boron boy]

my understanding is it's not reasonable to leave cocked crossbows lying around.

My understanding is it's not reasonable to leave loaded guns lying around either. Crazy americans.

Re:Firearms the original point and click interface

[roseblood]

Teaser: The advice given at the bottom of this comment should be read followed by anyone who has a FIREARM, a CAR, A COMPUTER, A CREDIT LINE/CARD, or a CHILD.

And as you point out, it only takes about a week of training for a thickheaded soldier to use a crossbow. To use a firearm at close range only requires watching TV - people successfully kill all the time with only that much training.

Okay, so having watched on TV a firearm being used, I can SAFELY defend my home and cause no risk to myself, my family, or my neighbors.

BULLSHIT.

You never see the people on TV learn how to even load the bloody firearm (yes, people do have to learn this, magazines don't come from the factory fully loaded, and many folks don't understand why you have to pull the slide back, nor where to find the button to press that lets the slide fall closed again... see my response to the next quote.)

You never see people on TV conern themselves with the corect selection of amunition. They never pick a bird-shot round when using a shotgun to defend themselves in a high-density urban setting (think apartments) you never see them choose frangible bullets to prevent over-penetration of any missed-rounds. Rounds that would othsewise transit through MANY walls before coming to rest. You never see them worry about the kids room being down the same hall that they're now using as a shooting gallery. Of course that'd make for damned boring TV.

PS: 12 Gua Remington Pump with 8 round magazine, first 3 shots are #8 bird shot, next 5 rounds are #4 shot. If three painful blasts of birdshot dosen't thwart someones intentions to do my family harm the #4 shot will most defenitely cause fatal harm to them (assuming the #8 wasn't fired at extremely close range.) My husband uses a Colt M1911 clone with "glass bullets" that will not penetrate more than 2 layers of sheetrock, but will carry a good deal of energy into a person who intends to do him or his family harm.

So you have to cock a semiautomatic or automatic weapon. Once. And you'd do this well before you entered combat, if you knew it was coming. If you cock your weapon after that, you're ejecting a good round from the chamber - wasting ammunition and making a fool of yourself. If a character walks up to another character and cocks his gun, either the director or the character is a fool.

You sir hve been watching ALOT of TV for your Firearms operation lessons.

COCKING a weapon means bringing the hammer (or hammer replacement) into position to strike the fireing pin (as opposed to being in a "rest" or "lowered" position.)

Weapons with external hamers often have this done automaticly when a round is chambered via the operation of a slide or lever.

Weapons with internal hammers are cocked ONLY by the cycling of the fireing action (cycle the bolt, slide, break-open the action, raise the falling block, etc.)

For example, you can not just "cock" a Glock sidearm. They have internal hammers that are set into the fireing position by retracting the slide fully reward and allowing the slide to fall into the battery position.

I've yet to see a movie where someone with an self-loading weapon (covers automatics and semi-automatics) cock a hammer. Often you see REVOLVERS getting cocked. Sometimes a slide is pulled back and is allowed to fall into battery (one assumes the weapon was carried with a full magazine but no round in the chamber.) But, I've yet to see someone cock a Glock on tv (by far the most popular gun on the TV shows I've watched.) Why don't people use old M1911s on TV? You CAN cock those, they have an external hammer.

But, point being, COCKING a firearm does NOT eject a good round for the chamber. Cycling the action may well do so, but setting an external hammer into a firing position will NOT do so.

I truely hope you do not have a firearm in your home as you appear to be lacking in some basic knowlege of firearms operation. If you own a firearm please seek some profesional instruction on the safe use of them. If you don't have one then don't get one till you get some saftey instruction.

PS: I think this advise just given should be followed by EVERYONE with a FIREARM, a CAR, a COMPUTER, a CREDIT CARD, or a CHILD.

Re:Firearms the original point and click interface

[Master of Transhuman]

"Practicing proper gun safety generally means not having a round in the chamber."

Only if you're not entering a dangerous situation - or if you care about accidental discharges.

When I robbed a bank (using a Glock 19), I didn't chamber a round because I didn't want an accidental discharge under the stress of a bank robbery - at the same time, this put me at significant risk, because if I was attacked by an armed individual in the bank, I would have to jack the slide before returning fire - enough to get me killed. If you know you're at risk and there's nobody but enemies around, chamber a round.

But you DO need to practice trigger finger control with a weapon like the Glock which has trigger safeties but no external safety.

"So you have to cock a semiautomatic or automatic weapon. Once."

Not if it's double action - and if you're serious about semiauto handgun combat, you use double-action. (I know, there's a religious war about that, but I think the consensus is double-action is where it's at IF you're trained for the difference in feel between first and subsequent shots - and training is what the real issue in combat handgunning is.)

"And you'd do this well before you entered combat, if you knew it was coming."

See above.

"If you cock your weapon after that, you're ejecting a good round from the chamber - wasting ammunition and making a fool of yourself. If a character walks up to another character and cocks his gun, either the director or the character is a fool."

Not necessarily - depends on the circumstances. If you round a corner and suddenly see an enemy you didn't suspect was there and draw your weapon, and it's not double-action, you'll have to cock it. If you knew he was there, you'd do it earlier.

Besides, most characters in movies aren't particularly trained combat handgunners, anyway. I mean the characters, not the actors - they usually get some decent handgun training. Watch Angelina Jolie in the first "Tomb Raider" background video clips for the training she got - and she got MORE now for "Mr. and Mrs. Smith" - including live-fire team fire-and-movement exercises with Brad Pitt (among other exercises she may have gotten with Brad.) :-) Angie could probably kill most cops in a firefight with either semiauto handguns or assault weapons - not a woman to cross!

I always laugh when I see blaxploitation movies with these bozos firing their handguns from a horizontal position (with one hand no less!)

Braindead. Guaranteed misses.

Re:Firearms the original point and click interface

[Igmuth]

And if we REALLY want to nitpick...

Re:Firearms the original point and click interface

[Cederic]

Erm. I learned how to shoot a bow in a day. Sure, took me a while longer to start hitting things more than ten yards away, and I still can't promise a hit at 100 yards on my first arrow.

But put me with 800 mates and give us a 2000 strong army to shoot at, I think I'll do just fine.

Bows are incredibly easy to use. Crossbows were never a major part of British warfare; the bows were better. The French used crossbows a lot, but they didn't know how to make a good longbow.

~cederic

Re:Firearms the original point and click interface

[karnal]

When I robbed a bank (using a Glock 19),

OK, show of hands. How many people on /. ever expected to see these combination of words in a conversation on /. - anyone?

Re:Firearms the original point and click interface

[arete]

I NEVER said you could use a firearm SAFELY only from watching TV. I said you could cause significant effect - the likelyhood is that you can manage to cause damage to someone. And I specifically said you'd need to be at fairly close range.

More importantly, I thought I was very clearly negative about the wisdom of USING point and click interfaces without any knowledge and how it has unintended and negative consequences. Perhaps I was too subtle. I suppose I shouldn't expect people to follow humor on /. I would never recommend putting a firearm in the unsupervised hands of someone who's only seen them on TV.

To be clearer: I was specifically insulting the untrained use of firearms at the same time I was insulting the creation of any interface designed to give a lot of flexible power to user without training them.

I will happily admit that I was using nitpickable "popular" vocabulary, where "cock" is any possibly intimidating motion that prepares the weapon for firing, usually expressed in the movies as pulling back the slide. While I don't mind your narrower definition of "cock" and understand that it is the way a gun purist would use that word, you didn't present a good short replacement for my usage, and I think that in the context of _movies_ that's what cock means for any weapon with a slide.

This popular confusion probably stems from pulling the slide being synonymous with cocking for internal hammer weapons. AS YOU POINT OUT, the movies usually use internal hammer weapons. In the CONTEXT I was talking about, they are synonymous. Of course, I should also have known better than to expect context to be considered on /. either.

While I'll happily believe you may be more experienced than I am, that doesn't mean I'm either untrained or stupid. Your post is fairly insulting coming from someone making sweeping generalizations about me because you can't follow humor already metamoderated as such or the use of a word within the context that you later describe.

I have no combat experience, but I've certainly fired a few dozen different weapons and have been trained both privately and by the US Army. These weapons included gas operated and non gas operated semiautomatic pistols, bolt action, level action, semiautomatic and automatic rifles, breakbarrel and pump action shotguns and SA and SA/DA revolvers. Excepting the shotguns, each category was in a variety of calibers, and most of them I personally disassembled and reassembled to clean.

Regarding ammunition selection: Glazer rounds are too complicated for movies and TV - scoring the front of the round with a big knife is usually the end of it. But I've certainly seen shot used moderately often in movies. I'll completely agree that I've rarely seen characters consider accidentally hitting something through the wall.

Re:Firearms the original point and click interface

[Anonymous Coward]

When I robbed a bank (using a Glock 19),

OK, show of hands. How many people on /. ever expected to see these combination of words in a conversation on /. - anyone?

Well the way outsourcing has been going on.... *raises hand*

Re:Firearms the original point and click interface

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, the Glocks are never "cocked". When a trigger is pulled on a Glock, the hammer moves back to the firing position, then releases, firing the round. This is a safety feature to help prevent accidental discharge when the firearm is dropped.

Another safety on the Glock is a dual trigger. If you look closely at the trigger, you can see a secondary trigger sticking out. If you do not pull both triggers at the same time, the Glock will not fire.

I commend you on your knowedge of firearms and hope you keep educating people on their workings. Education is the best defense against accidents.

Personnaly, I defend my house with a Remington 870 Express, loaded with #7 shot. The only breakin I've had, the crook was scared off when I chambered a round. I love that distinct sound!

Re:Firearms the original point and click interface

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually no. You don't tend to 'click' a crossbow you squeeze the lever to the stock. Unless you are talking about those little pistol crossbows, which are infact borrowing the 'interface' of a cartridge fire arm anyway. So, yea I think you're incorrect on the whole bow thing. But thanks.

Re:Firearms the original point and click interface

[IceAgeComing]

And as you point out, it only takes about a week of training for a thickheaded soldier to use a crossbow. To use a firearm at close range only requires watching TV - people successfully kill all the time with only that much training.

Okay, so having watched on TV a firearm being used, I can SAFELY defend my home and cause no risk to myself, my family, or my neighbors.

BULLSHIT.

You're not doing much to improve my sense of safety, NRA fanboy. You're obviously very passionate on this subject. But it's a subject of your own making. Calling bullshit on your own subject is kind of weird.

Your passionate irrationality is why guns should be carefully controlled. I don't care how safe a gun owner is 99.9% of the time; it's that 0.1% of the time when his passion is out of control that he should not have a gun.

Re:Firearms the original point and click interface

[swv3752]

With only a couple of hours of crossbow training, a person can reasonably expect to hit a man sized target at 100 yards or greater. Also, the modern recurve and compound bows are much easier to aim and fire then the Welsh yew bows. A recurve bow is not any more powerful than a medieaval crossbow. It's big advantage is a higher rate of fire. But it takes a bit more training to use effectively. A true long bow (where it is probably taller than most men) is whole orders of magnitude harder to aim and fire. In college I had a chance to fire a yew longbow. It was incredibly difficult to string. I was one of the few that could even draw the bow, and that only for a few draws. At 20 yards I could hit a target only because it was essentially a flat trajectory. I would be lucky to hit the proverbial broadside of a barn at 100 yards or greater.

Re:Firearms the original point and click interface

[Anonymous Coward]

funny... since the english actually bought a fair number of their longbows from the french.
Toxophilus - 1545

Re:Firearms the original point and click interface

[IceAgeComing]

Whoops, my bad. I thought you were responding to someone higher up the chain. Please don't kill me. I didn't mean it.

Re:Firearms the original point and click interface

[Sir dies alot]

I just wanted to point out two things, first the bows used back then are dramatically different than the bows of today. I'm guessing you used some kind of compound bow with sight pins, synthetic string, and carbon fibre (or some other lightweight, strong material). The old bows were made out of wood and leather string. Today's versions would give you substantially more power and control than the old bows would have, which directly translates to less training time.

The second thing that many people forget is that medieval archers, with their old wooden bows, could fire 3 arrows in approximately 10-15 seconds, counting loading and aiming time. It is difficult to load and fire 3 shots in 10 seconds much less aim and hit something.

I don't doubt your ability with your bow, but stating that bows are incredibly easy to use really only applies to today. You should also take into account that the old bows did not add much power to the arrow, and the people the archers were shooting at wore full body armor and carried reinforced shields. In order for a medieval archer to be truly effective, he had to be able to hit the narrow gaps in joints and the neck, from a distance, in the heat of battle .

Re:Firearms the original point and click interface

[Master of Transhuman]

Anybody who's read my stuff here before... :-)

Re:Firearms the original point and click interface

[Cederic]

I do appreciate that modern bows are far more efficient than yew longbows. I shoot a modern recurve bow, with metal handle and carbon limbs (so I do take the full weight of the bow, but it does transmit far more of its energy to the arrow).

However, I've shot yew longbows; a large number of club members at my (Nottingham, England) archery club shoot longbows regularly/exclusively.

They do add considerably to arrow power. They are also very difficult to properly draw for the inexperienced. And that's why regular practice was legally mandated for a few centuries. (Although, back then everybody was a manual labourer and had muscles like Arnie, so the physical effort of drawing the bow was less of an issue - also meant they had far higher strength bows than modern longbows).

Nonetheless, even at my current inept archery ability I could function effectively in a battle situation - draw, release, draw, release, draw, release, get hacked down by bloke on horse..

Re:Firearms the original point and click interface

[Cederic]

>> A recurve bow is not any more powerful than a medieaval crossbow. It's big advantage is a higher rate of fire. But it takes a bit more training to use effectively. A true long bow (where it is probably taller than most men) is whole orders of magnitude harder to aim and fire

A true longbow is the same as a sightless recurve bow to aim and shoot. The draw-release motion tends to be abbreviated, to avoid holding the bow at full draw, and that can impact accuracy, and the efficiency of the bow is lower, so the arrow gains less of the power put in by the archer, but it's certainly not an order of magnitude harder (let alone several).

There is no doubt that picking up an unstrung longbow and shooting it is tricky - but it's still easier than picking up an unstrung crossbow and shooting it.

Starting both stringed and ready, yes, the crossbow is perhaps more point and click - but the bow is still very simple to use, and easy to teach the basics to someone in minutes.

~cederic

Re:Firearms the original point and click interface

[Anonymous Coward]

Ok, so i guess it's Troll Tuesday, eh? Whatever, i'm bored so i'll bite.

1) The poster is mostly likely a female, so, all other things being equal, she would be an " NRA fangirl".

2) You would know this if you read the whole post rather than flipping out and commenting after the first paragraph.

3) The poster was using sarcasm. She is paraphrasing what she believes the parent poster said and is indicating that she feels that it is a poorly considered point. Not that hard to understand, really.

4) Any "passionate irrationality" that the poster showed was limited to concern about accidentally shooting kids and about proper terminology. If those are the worst of her transgressions, I'd trust her with a weapon any day.

5) Comparatively speaking, guns ARE carefully controlled. I'm talking about legal ownership, of course; all bets are off if you're considering things from a basis of criminal possession. But since you refer to gun owners and safety, I think it's pretty safe to assume you mean legal owners.

6) If you only care about the .1% of the time where anyone could be irrationally impassioned, then there are many more things besides guns about which you should be concerned. For example, "that guy with a can of gasoline might go burn down a school in the dead of night, we've got to tighten control of gasoline!", "that chainsaw owner might become impassioned and go hack up his neighbor, we've gotta control chainsaws, man!", "that scary looking Linux user might lose his grip on reality for a minute and haxxor up his neighbor!". Irrational people are dangerous no matter what the have at their disposal, singling out guns and gun owners is a very weak arguement.

Re:Firearms the original point and click interface

[Dun Malg]

As someone else pointed out, the amount of effort to cock a crossbow isn't necessarily tremendous - but it's definitely there. As I pointed out, using an underling isn't a technological P&C.

Funny you should bring that up also, as one of the other things crossbows allowed which bows didn't was all manner of mechanical contrivances, from levers to cranks and pulleys, designed to allow even the weakest noob to cock it. Like I said, you could put a crossbow in anyone's hands and they'd be able to use it with minimal instruction.

And when you see somebody cock a gun in a movie, it's almost always stupid.

Yeah, if I had a nickel for every stupid "cock the gun as a threat" scene. My favorite is when the cocking noise was obviously foleyed in later becausee some dimwit editor said "oooo, have it sound like he's cocking the gun there". Particularly amusing is when they foley in a "hammer cock" and the character is holding a bloody Glock (cough)Lost(/cough).

Re:Firearms the original point and click interface

[Anonymous Coward]

The effort to cock a crossbow is less than that required to draw a longbow. However, it simply takes longer, while a trained yewman could meanwhile put two more shafts through you. Volume of arrows REALLY becomes a factor when you have thousands of archers volleying them hundreds of yards across the field.

The French also had this silly notion of putting the crossbowmen in the back and letting the gallant knights in their steel armor charge the enemy ... on unarmored horses. Twang, thwack, thud, poor french knight falls in the mud. Archer takes out mallet and stake, pound pound pound. Next. That's basically how Agincort went.

Re:Firearms the original point and click interface

[fishbowl]

"Okay, so having watched on TV a firearm being used, I can SAFELY defend my home and cause no risk to myself, my family, or my neighbors."

People show up at my range all the time with their Glocks, dressed to the nines like thugs... and manage to miss the paper at 25 feet.

My favorite TV-firearm thing is whenever someone with a slide action auto runs out of ammo, but the action continues to cycle.

Also, the "gangsta stance" where they hold it sideways. Ever try to shoot like that? Ever see somebody get bit by the slide that way?

Another thing they never show you on TV, how to safely decock a S&W revolver. There's a ton of stories about how someone is playing with someone else's gun, cocks the hammer, then realizes he doesn't know how to decock it (and it does not occur to them to stop messing with it.) Sometimes the story ends with a shattered toilet bowl (true), but I can easily see it ending in tragedy also.

It is farily realistic when you see S&W style revolvers being cocked for single action, but on TV, that's always done for dramatic effect, the shooter is escalating the threat with the action.

Another thing that amuses me on TV is the idea that you're going to be able to hear someone talking 30 feet away during, or after, a firefight. TV is not realistic as to just how loud a .357 is in a confined space like a parking garage.

And how do you learn the basic concept of sight alingment from TV? Strange as it sounds, a gun actually *isn't* "point-and-shoot". Aiming isn't as easy as its made out to be. It takes practice.

Re:Firearms the original point and click interface

[Anonymous Coward]

And how do you learn the basic concept of sight alingment from TV? Strange as it sounds, a gun actually *isn't* "point-and-shoot". Aiming isn't as easy as its made out to be. It takes practice.

Aiming is pretty damned easy.. align the front sight between the dovetails, and then paint the target. As long as your sights are accurate, you're going to hit your target -- although maybe a little higher Maintaining aim while squeezing the trigger without flinching might take a little bit of practice, but that varies from person to person and is usually proportional to their fear of firearms.

Re:Firearms the original point and click interface

[Anonymous Coward]

Oops.. meant to say, "although maybe a little higher or lower until you learn exactly where to line them up, but that's why you aim for center of mass."

Training would expedite the learning curve, but it's designed to be easy, and the design works pretty well.

Re:Firearms the original point and click interface

[Ray Radlein]

6) If you only care about the .1% of the time where anyone could be irrationally impassioned, then there are many more things besides guns about which you should be concerned. For example, "that guy with a can of gasoline might go burn down a school in the dead of night, we've got to tighten control of gasoline!"

It is with great trepidation that I post this (I almost AC'ed it for the first time in my /. career), because, hey, gun control discussion, but it's a worthwhile point (IMHO, of course) that, if you substitute "middle of the day" for "dead of night" in your statement, you will have just described the two worst incidents of school violence in American history -- both of which put Columbine to shame in terms of body count.

Actually, to be precise, one of them used the school's boiler room as the source of the fire; but the point remains that arson has, over the years, consistently proven itself more effective than gunfire for killing people in batch mode under most circumstances. The big advantage than guns have, to drag this back towards the topic a little more, is their superiority in interactive mode .

they are ok

[ImTheDarkcyde]

i myself purchased one of these pistolmouses around christmas for 40 bucks, it is a very neat design, but i caution those with little desk space, as its about 2 inches longer than the standard mouse

it is also a very sensitive mouse, you'll find yourself turning down mouse sensitivity in some games (max payne, most noticibly)

my game performance hasnt increased at all, but there are a few games i just cannot play with it, games that rely on alot of scroll wheel usage

which brings me to the final point, the scroll wheel, if you use firefox (of course you do) chances are you are constantly middle clicking, well doing it horizontally lets you mess up and scroll/click instead at the same time, it gets annoying, but its not a big turn off

9/10

Re:they are ok

[Anonymous Coward]

Damn, learn to write.

Re:they are ok

[richlv]

i could not understand from pictures how exactly are you supposed to position your hand - with standard mouses you can relieve your hand by holding elbow or wrist on table or some mousepad extension. it seems that with this pistolmouse it is not possible to support your wrist and elbow also should move, because otherwise it would be very hard to make moves up/down (forward/backward).

doesn't this put big strain on your shoulder ? or can you actually base some part of your hand ?

Re:they are ok

[Anonymous Coward]

wait! MAx Payne?!? Firefox?!?

I have two 21-inch screens set side-by-side. Can I set up two of these and go guns akimbo? And when the FIrefox window on the left monitor grabs my attention, can I jump sideways John Woo style and shoot through those links?

Or should I just go through the airport with it and give them my best Christian Slater impression while they arrest me?

And how is this better for your wrist?

[Anonymous Coward]

This seems like it would be much harder on your wrist, how much does this thing weigh? Even Charleton Heston didn't do this much pistol pointing.

Re:And how is this better for your wrist?

[EvilCabbage]

It conforms to the natural way your arm and wrist wants to lay while resting on a flat surface. There's a lot less stress placed on the joint and associated muscles which helps reduce any risk of RSI.

I was surprised myself, but these upright mice are relatively comfortable to use. I couldn't ever game with one, but we have several here in the office and they make a refreshing change, despite the very minor added weight of the device.

Re:PEOPLE WITH MOD POINTS: CALL FOR HELP

[Anonymous Coward]

It does. If something posted from your network gets modded down often enough, your network will get banned. This was added in 2003 or early 2004, can't remember. AC or not is irrelevant. It has nothing to do with karma.

/.'d

[thegamerformelyknown]

Got Walmart? Both server's /.'d already.

Mirror

[winkydink]

here

Article slashdotted - repost

[Anonymous Coward]

Posted anonymously - I'm no Karma whore :-)

Monster Gecko PistolMouse FPS

Every so often you get a chance to play with something that just brings out the inner Geek. This is that product. Designed for the hard core FPS player, the PistolMouse replicates the look and feel of a real pistol in a high resolution 800 DPI optical mouse. The PistolMouse FPS uses a high performance optical sensor that tracks surfaces by sampling an image up to 3400 times every second with a high accuracy of 800 dpi (dots per inch). The PistolMouse FPS responds to any movement in 10.9 milliseconds (1/100 of a second) and can sustain the full 800 dpi capture rate at speeds of 12.75 inches per second over a surface. It all sounds good on paper, but let's test this thing in the real world...

The First thing I noticed about the PistolMouse FPS is the high quality packaging. This box jumps out at you. Monster Gecko has really put together an attractive product in a stunning box.

The Pistol itself looks a lot like a replica Air Soft pistol. The design is ergometric with your hand naturally gripping the trigger and resting on the secondary button. The scroll wheel is always in easy reach of your thumb. The design allows the PistolMouse to be used with equal precision both left and right handed.

Pictures don't do this product justice. The PistolMouse is sturdy without feeling heavy or unresponsive at all. The triggers are crafted from color matched aluminum. Even after several days of twitch gaming it still feels as solid as day one.

All that aside, the real thrill is gripping the pistol and dishing out frags with a vengeance. The feel of a real pistol in your hand brings a new level of immersion to your favorite FPS. It's also a great attention getter; I can only begin to describe the constant stream of friends that want to try it out, even my wife had to try it! And who hasn't taken liberties with those crazy arcade pistols?

I put the PistolMouse through its paces using the latest Microsoft Drivers and my favorite twitch games, PainKiller and Battlefield: 1942. For prolonged testing I ran it through a marathon PlanetSide session. My mouse pad of choice was the EverGlide Giganta and the new XTrac Ripper XL. No driver is needed; the USB plug and play was painless.

There is a bit of a learning curve to the PistolMouse FPS. The most immediate change is the trigger function. Your Trigger acts as the primary fire and will both single and double click. This allows you to hold down the fire button for some nice automatic action. The secondary trigger is tucked under the trigger guard and after a few misfires was pretty easy to use. The scroll wheel is easy to find without looking down and very responsive. Once you get the feel down you notice the natural ergometric design makes your left to right motions much faster than with a traditional mouse. Even after nearly 4 hours of play I felt no wrist strain.

The larger size foot print over whelmed my Giganta at 6 ½" by 3" but worked nicely on the Ripper XL. Motion was fluid and responsive even during high speed play. The only drawback over my regular mouse is the PistolMouse only supports the functions of a traditional 3 button Scroll mouse. This 3 button limitation means my trusty old mouse won't be replaced yet. $69.95 may be a bit pricy for a FPS specialty mouse but with the level of quality Monster Gecko has put into the PistolMouse FPS, this might just put that smile on your face.

Right now Monster Gecko is offering a 30 Day money back Guarantee on the Pistol Mouse FPS through www.monstergecko.com. What have you got to loose?

Club Overclocker Rating

Innovation:
10 out of 10

Performance:
9.0 out of 10

Quality:
9.0 out of 10

Stability:
N/A

Compatibility:
7.5 out of 10

Overclocking:
N/A

Software Pack:
N/A

They should also have

[xpeeblix]

.... a grenade mouse that would go over great with TSA staff. Considering they get twitchy about lighters now...

Precision

[HoaryCripple]

As a "fast twitch" player who's been playing first person shooters for longer than I care to admit, I highly doubt I would ever use this product. It forces you to use the much less precise muscles of the shoulder and upper arm as opposed to the muscles of the forearm. I'll take my carpal tunnel syndrome thank you.

Re:Precision

[iPodUser]

I'm with you, man. You spend your whole life learnig another system, then you have to learn something new.

Re:Precision

[Spy der Mann]

I'll take my carpal tunnel syndrome thank you.

I'm still thinking that a mouse along with separate buttons (for the keyboard, to use with the left hand) should be much more ergonomic.

Reason:

a) You can switch fingers whenever your index finger gets tired (repetitive strain)

b) you separate the moving from the clicking, allowing better coordination.

My question is: Why doesn't any friggin' company do it!!

Re:Precision

[bcrowell]

It forces you to use the much less precise muscles of the shoulder and upper arm as opposed to the muscles of the forearm. I'll take my carpal tunnel syndrome thank you.
I used a similar mouse for a couple of years, due to tendonitis problems. I don't recall that precision was really a problem; maybe I had to adjust the sensitivity a little. I think it did help with the tendonitis, although my ultimate solution was just to switch from a mouse-based editor to emacs in a terminal window :-)

BTW, I think due to the slashdot effect, a lot of people are posting on the assumption that it's a light gun. AFAICT from the text and photos on the pages that I was able to access, that's not what it is. It seems to be simply a regular optical mouse that slides around on the desktop.

Re:Precision

[jackbird]

Your left hand is busy with the movement keys, and foot pedals are too slow. Check out Belkin's Nostromo n52, though.

Re:Precision

[geminidomino]

I think it did help with the tendonitis, although my ultimate solution was just to switch from a mouse-based editor to emacs in a terminal window :-)

Effin' A! EMACS is a goddamn FPS now, too?!

Re:Precision

[bcrowell]

Oh yeah, emacs is an excellent platform. Still needs a good text editor, though.

Re:Precision

[RollingThunder]

Do you mean like the Claw?

http://www.cluboverclocker.com/reviews/game_gear/c law/

It's a left-handed multibutton appliance, meant to let you not have to use the keyboard. Doesn't help with the mousing but you could switch any clicks needed over there.

Re:Precision

[swv3752]

Yes, it is a standard high precision optical mouse (800dpi). They could have designed it as a standard joystick grip. The gun design is mostly aesthetics, but the sensor is towards the front of the barrel so twisting the grip side to side will produce quick horizontal movement.

Re:Precision

[mouseguy]

Precision: This is a very good point that you make here. Research in the field on vertical type Mice validates this point, as well. Most gamers will have difficulty with precise cursor control with this type of mouse. Also, you increase the risk of trigger finger injuries. "As a "fast twitch" player who's been playing... It forces you to use the much less precise muscles of the shoulder and upper arm as opposed to the muscles of the forearm. I'll take my carpal tunnel syndrome..." I'm an Associate Ergonomist, who had Carpal Tunnel Syndrome, and now work for an input device mfg. Since, we work with CAD users(at Boeing, Intel, Trane,etc) who have Carpal Tunnel Syndrome(CTS), we had to design something that would allow them to have good control and decrease CTS type discomfort. If you click on the "usage" button here, and view what we call Mode #2, you can see how we achieve this. (This only took 18 months of R & D to find this solution.) http://www.contourdesign.com/pmo/perfitdemo.swf We have been in business helping people with CTS and other RSIs for 10 years. This product has been out since, we started. It is expensive, but works for many. OK I will get off my soap box, now. Cheers, Mouseguy

Huh

[FlyByPC]

I keep waiting for the first-person-shooter fad to end and for people to insist on more interesting games.

Somehow I get the impression I'll be waiting for some time yet...

Re:Huh

[ciole]

Age cannot wither her, nor custom stale
Her infinite variety; other women cloy
The appetite they feed, but she makes hungry
Where most she satisfies.

Ahhh, pistols....

[Lisandro]

... the original point-and-click interfase!

Re:Ahhh, pistols....

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, you'll have a bullet interfase if you don't learn to spell.

Re:PEOPLE WITH MOD POINTS: CALL FOR HELP

[Thnikkaman]

So, because you post all the time and you always get modded down, are you going to get banned soon?

Irony

[UserChrisCanter4]

Since (situational) irony is the opposite of what's expected, I would say that the submitter was probably correct in his or her use of "ironic." If I were to encounter something like this, I would immediately assume that it was a lame gimmick built to cheesily cash in on the novelty market, which would probably make me doubt the mouse's ergonomics.

Re:Irony

[Anonymous Coward]

hm, but your wrist must remain elevated and palm perpendicular to the desk while using this device.

I see nothing "ergonomic" about this device, unless you consider gripping a pistol for 10 hours/day while sitting at your cubicle to be more ergonomic than a standard mouse+gelpad.

Timothy obviously likes shootin' guns, and likes using the word "ironic", and thats about it...

Re:Irony

[UserChrisCanter4]

There have been several vertical keyboard/mouse designs oon the market, all of them built for ergonomic purposes. Wresting your wrist on it's side tends to be a much more natural position than the vertical "hunch."

Of course, all that it moot if this requires you to grip the gun higher up, thus placing undue stress on your upper arm.

Re:Irony

[CityZen]

You have hit the nail on the head!

I've tried both the 3M Renaissance vertical mouse and the pistol mouse. The 3M wins because you can rest your hand on the base. The pistol mouse loses because you can't do that (and still use the trigger).

I'm using the 3M mouse, and have found it to eliminate my wrist pain. The only drawback is the lack of a good scrolling input. I've seen another vertical mouse that might solve this problem too. It's more of a regular design, just tilted 90 degrees to the right along the longitudinal axis.

Re:Irony

[geeber]

I believe the real irony hear is in the notion of a Slashdot editor trying to correct someone else's grammar usage.

Re:Irony

[LPetrazickis]

I believe the real irony hear[sic] is in the notion of a Slashdot editor trying to correct someone else's grammar usage.

Ahem. *cough* *cough*

Re:Irony

[geeber]

Doh!

(I will submit that is a spelling mistake and not grammar, though :)

safety warning

[Stephen Samuel]

Just remember: If your company, for some reason, gets raided keep your hand away from the mouse or carpal tunnel syndrome may be the least of your medical problems. Slashdot can safely wait until the cops have gone home.

Re:safety warning

[eis271828]

This also is not the ideal mouse to use with a laptop on a plane.

Re:safety warning

[Stephen Samuel]

Good luck getting it on the plsne, to begin with. You'd be lucky to get away with a strp-search and a warning.

Re:safety warning

[Master of Transhuman]

I think it was Boing-Boing or somebody who pointed out a case where the guy had a digital camera which was built into one of those steel lighter cases.

He took the camera out and demonstrated to the idiots at the airport that it was in fact a camera.

They let him keep the camera, but he couldn't take the EMPTY lighter case on the plane.

There is no level of stupidity these people will not sink to in the pursuit of "security".

About on a par with forcing penguins to walk through a metal detector...

Re:safety warning

[fishbowl]

"Good luck getting it on the plsne, to begin with. You'd be lucky to get away with a strp-search and a warning."

Treat it exactly like you would a paintball gun, and follow the TSA and airport rules for a paintball gun, and it will be shockingly easy.

I say "shockingly easy", because you should realize that the same rules you follow for a paintball gun, will work for a real gun with ammo.

I check in all my bags now. It sometimes takes a little bit longer, but it's much less hassle, and it's really nice to be able to go through the checkpoint with just a small briefcase containing a laptop computer.

You won't find yourself standing there waiting for the agent to go through your bags, if you don't *have* any bags.

So all I need to do is...

[Anonymous Coward]

Sell a product that's sort of interesting, get it on /., wait for my server to be destroyed, and watch as every geek on /. buys my product...
I'm gonna be rich!

Gecko gel huh?

[50m31sl4sh.]

Do they give out Firefox with that?

Re:PEOPLE WITH MOD POINTS: CALL FOR HELP

[Anonymous Coward]

It doesn't work that way. I've been trolling from my comcast account for years. I don't see me being banned.

Try again.

I can only imagine....

[Khyber]

Trying to go to a LAN game in another state or on the other side of the country, and trying to pack this in your bags.

One button? So... what about the vast majority of games that have alternate firing modes? Makes no sense to me to just have one button, as any gamer can tell you.

Re:I can only imagine....

[Kredal]

The "right" button is just under the trigger guard, where your middle finger rests. Not sure from reading the review whether you press in or up to click that button... hopefully in... up would be a PITA...

Re:I can only imagine....

[ABaumann]

One button?

You obviously don't have a mac, do you?

Re:I can only imagine....

[Anonymous Coward]

You obviously don't have a mac, do you?

No, he said he was a gamer, not a prissy little girl who wants a computer that looks "neat".

Re:I can only imagine....

[SuprCzr]

One button?

You obviously don't have a mac, do you?

nor read anything, its got two buttons and a selectable scroll wheel.

Re:I can only imagine....

[Khyber]

Actually, I have seven Macs, two Lombard G3 laptops, and a couple of old G3 servcers that the school system ditched... sitting in my garage, unused, for good reason. Apple forces people to upgrade (which, if I recall, they did face a lawsuit over, about.. what.. two, three years ago?)

Re:I can only imagine....

[Khyber]

I did RTFA. But, for one, where the right mouse button is placed is about halfway unnatural for my over-sized hand.

Now what I'd REALLY like to see is a version of this that incorporates the technology that those mice that work in mid-air have. Couple that with a projection screen, and let the blood fly.

Re:I can only imagine....

[jahurska]

Uuh.. Have you ever shot extensive time with a gun? Really after about 1-5mins, depending on the weight of the gun, you get strain and your accuracy plummets. And with a controller like that you just can't rest your hands like you can with a light-gun.

That's why professional shooters tend to use extraordinary amount of time in preparation and shoot fairly quickly after lifting the barrel.

I don't dispute that it wouldn't be fun to shoot FPS games with a controller like that, but after about 30min gaming your arms are probably hurting too much for you to continue gaming.

I believe that there is the same inherit problem with that mid-air mouse...

Old

[DownloadTHIS]

Didn't PC Gamer have a review of this thing several months ago?

Re:PEOPLE WITH MOD POINTS: CALL FOR HELP

[Anonymous Coward]

Let's review this, shall we,
It's getting posted once every 10 minutes, on trolltalk.
why should we care?

Another review

[Anonymous Coward]

http://www.cluboverclocker.com/reviews/game_gear/M onster_Gecko/index.htm

Ancient light pen/mice and true vector displays

[G4from128k]

Back in the day (1983), I used a CAD system that had a light pen pointer and a true vector display. The CAD software drew the picture by plotting the electron beam on a circular CRT screen (i.e., it did not use a raster scan). The base of the desk-sized console had a massive rack of boards that converted the line list into vector scan deflections. The pen (you touched the pen directly to the screen) had a small hole and photodiode that monitored the timing of the trace to determine what you were pointing at.

Re:Ancient light pen/mice and true vector displays

[Anonymous Coward]

Back in the day (1983), I used a CAD system that had a light pen pointer and a true vector display.

Was your machine like this? I don't know why your post was modded troll....

Re:PEOPLE WITH MOD POINTS: CALL FOR HELP

[Anonymous Coward]

Yup. However, if you continue to make such moronic and unfunny comments, I will take you with me.

I have dynamic IP. Do you, punk?

Need sign if getting one of these...

[__aaclcg7560]

My Dad recently moved into a trailer park and the manager's trailer has this sign:

Don't Mind The Dog / Beware Of The Owner

The picture on the sign was a smoking Magnum .45 pistol. If I ever meet the manager, I wouldn't be surprised if he looked like Clint Eastward.

Anyway... Get a mousy gun, better post a sign to warn people off.

Re:Need sign if getting one of these...

[Anonymous Coward]

If I ever meet the manager, I wouldn't be surprised if he looked like Clint Eastward.

More likely to look like Clint Howard.

Re:Need sign if getting one of these...

[Mskpath3]

Technical note : While their technically is a .45 magnum cartridge (.45 Winchester Magnum), it is an exceedingly rare/exotic cartridge.

You're probably thinking of the venerable .44 magnum which is the gold standard "hand cannon" round. It was also Dirty Harry's cartridge of choice (fired from a S&W model 29).

Also, the common ".45" is the .45 ACP cartridge, which while hugely popular in the shooting community, is significantly less powerful than the .44 magnum (roughly 50% the muzzle energy).

Re:Need sign if getting one of these...

[hairykrishna]

.454 Casull is a true 'hand cannon' round. For when the .44 magnum is just too sissy....

http://www.fishandhunttexas.com/454casull.htm

Re:Need sign if getting one of these...

[Anonymous Coward]

I know what you're thinking. Did he click 6 times or only 5. Well, being as this is a 44 Magnum mouse, the most powerful hand mouse in the world and would blow your hard drive clean off, you've got to ask yourself one question. Do I feel lucky? Well, do ya, geek!

Re:Need sign if getting one of these...

[Mskpath3]

Indeed. Although in this day and age of super-magnum guns, the real reigning handgun champ is the .500 S&W Magnum.

http://tinyurl.com/bj8tl

I had the oppurtunity to try one of these out from a 4" S&W a couple weeks ago. Yowza. I have a touch of recoil junky in me, but that thing is just a little too overwhelming to be a "fun" shooter.

Magnum Research (makers of the Desert Eagle) also make a revolver called the "BFR" which is even more ridiculous - it's basically chambered for various large rifle rounds, like .45-70 govt, .480 ruger and .444 Marlin (it blows my mind that anyone would even consider touching one of those off :) ).

http://www.magnumresearch.com/

Re:PEOPLE WITH MOD POINTS: CALL FOR HELP

[Anonymous Coward]

Wait. get your story right. Is the network banned, or the IP banned?

You simply do not know what you're talking about.

Two things...

[PlacidPundit]

1. "it looks fun, and a hoot to travel with by air." Uh-huh. I'll write you in prison. I promise.
2. "the mouse is ergonomically shaped because the pistol grip alleviates stress on your carpal tunnel-ridden wrist." And it places stress on the last joints in your index finger. It also individualizes your index finger, which can lead to dystonia.

been here done that

[jaywarrietto]

I saw this in a PCGamer quite a few months back. I could be wrong though, it may have been on /.

Re:PEOPLE WITH MOD POINTS: CALL FOR HELP

[Anonymous Coward]

Try it. Post 10 messages saying "NIGGERS STINK" in this story and watch them get modded down. Then notice that your Class C was banned and you'll have to spend some time in the "timeout corner".

(You can get away with a little more if "good" stuff is posted from your network too, btw.)

Hundreds of Years?

[serutan]

the modern handgun reflects hundreds of years of user testing

Obviously more than the Federation did when they came up with the "dust buster" phasers.

Re:Hundreds of Years?

[boot1973]

"dust buster" phasers

That's it, that's what they remind me of.. Thank you.

Re:PEOPLE WITH MOD POINTS: CALL FOR HELP

[Anonymous Coward]

Incorrect. doesn't work that way. Never has.

Used one, didn't like it

[Matimus]

The company that makes these pistol mice sponsored PDXLAN 5.05 in March, which I attended. At first they seemed kind of neat, but everyone pretty much figured out that they they were only nice to look at after only a few minutes. For starters the lever arm on the trigger to 'click' the mouse is big, every time you want to 'click' you are moving your index finger nearly 1 cm. 1 cm doesn't seem like much, untill you figure that a regular mouse only takes about 1mm (or less). Also your wrist rests on the table in a strange position and you end up rubbing the bone on your wrist against the table, and it becomes very uncomfortable. Third, you can elevate your arm above the table so as not to rub your wrist, but then you are actually putting quite a bit of work into your arm, which is definitely not ergonomic. Lastly, most of the fine control that you do with your mouse is via your finger tips, with this mouse all of the control is done via your whole arm. Needless to say, by the end of PDXLAN they were giving these away as raffle prizes, and some of the winners wouldn't even come up to claim their prize!

Oh, and remember what I said about them being nice to look at, that is only the first time you see it, after about a minute the novelty wears off and you realize how dumb looking it really is.

Re:Used one, didn't like it

[Anonymous Coward]

I have one, and I did initially run into most of the problems you described. Most of them, however, were solved simply by using the mouse on a lower surface (or raising your chair). Once I wasn't working to hold my arm up, it was pretty easy. Also, the trigger issue does bother me for most games, and I have to keep my trusty old optical logitech mouse for those. I did notice, however, that the greater trigger pull was beneficial in games that require few highly accurate clicks (e.g., wide open UT2004 levels with sniper rifle) rather than the rapid clicks demanded by most close-in levels.

Re:Used one, didn't like it

[mouseguy]

Matimus: your post is the funniest thing, I have ever seen. Your are Right on the money. You cut through all of the marketing hype bullsh*t, and get to the meat of the matter. Cheers, Mouseguy

Re:PEOPLE WITH MOD POINTS: CALL FOR HELP

[Anonymous Coward]

What will happen if trolltalk gets closed because of automated crapfloods?

Correct, they'll all be on the front page again.

Re:PEOPLE WITH MOD POINTS: CALL FOR HELP

[Anonymous Coward]

The network. However, I get dynamic IP addresses from multiple networks, smarty. Do you get it now?

Fucking noobs.

Re:PEOPLE WITH MOD POINTS: CALL FOR HELP

[Anonymous Coward]

> The network. However, I get dynamic IP addresses from multiple
> networks, smarty. Do you get it now?

It's a network, then your IP, then you have multiple networks.

I get it. You make shit up as you go along. gotchya.

/themes/slashcode/templates/errors;comments;defaul

[Anonymous Coward]

[% # TROLL MESSAGE.
CASE "troll message" %]
Due to excessive bad posting from this IP or Subnet, comment posting
has temporarily been disabled. If it's you, consider this a chance to
sit in the timeout corner. If it's someone else, this is a chance to
hunt them down.
If you think this is unfair, please email
[% IF constants.adminmail_mod; constants.adminmail_mod;
ELSE; constants.adminmail; END %].

NOW SHUT THE FUCK UP NOOB

Get Shot When the MPAA/RIAA Govt. Agents Raid!

[Anonymous Coward]

Great! Now when the government agents break down the door and storm into your house looking for copyright infringement, they can shoot first, and later claim, "He/she was holding a gun and was about to shoot. We didnt' know it was only a mouse!"

Or at a FPS LAN party, you take out your enemies... Literally... Oops, that wasn't your mouse, that was your gun! "I didn't know the mouse was loaded, officer!"

If you have one of these...

[GundamFan]

...Uninstall CS 1.6 turn of the computer and stop asking your parents for things you found on the internet.

I'll wait until the next version...

[Karl Tacheron]

I hear that's when they implement the sideways "gangsta grip" feature.

Re:I'll wait until the next version...

[Combuchan]

Your accuracy goes way down if you fire a weapon using "gangsta grip" and you're also more likely to have spent cartridges expelled out in the direction of your face. Cops are even trained to dodge a certain way if they're being fired at gangsta style.

I guess it can look kind of intimidating, but once you realise the logistics of it all, gangsta grip is really, really stupid.

Re:I'll wait until the next version...

[LordBodak]

It really doesn't look intimidating, it just looks stupid.

And it seems like the real origin of it was that some movie director realized that if the actors held the guns sideways he could get a better shot of their faces and the guns. Then people saw it and started copying it.

If someone is ever going to shoot at me, I hope they use the "gansta grip," because their odds of hitting me are pretty low.

Re:I'll wait until the next version...

[pi42]

I've heard that the origins of "gangster style" firing were used by military forces with submachine guns to clear (read: kill everyone) a room quickly--when held sideways, the recoil of the gun would move around the room and, well, kill everyone.

Re:I'll wait until the next version...

[Anonymous Coward]

I've heard that the origins of "gangster style" firing were used by military forces with submachine guns to clear (read: kill everyone) a room quickly--when held sideways, the recoil of the gun would move around the room and, well, kill everyone.

Even if that is true, it is still stupid to do with a pistol. For a SMG accuracy is realtively low, but they have the magazine capacity to make up for it with volume of fire. Semi-automatic pistols usually have less than a dozen rounds in a clip so you want to have decent accuracy, not volume, of fire. So with a pistol, anything that appreciably reduces your ability to hit actually makes you less threatening. Since the "gansta grip" is supposed to be imposing, this is self-defeating and therefore idiotic.

Re:PEOPLE WITH MOD POINTS: CALL FOR HELP

[Anonymous Coward]

Go troll some of the slashbots. Idiot.

You know, Linux isn't ready for the desktop, BSD is dying and shit.

Re:/themes/slashcode/templates/errors;comments;def

[Anonymous Coward]

> NOW SHUT THE FUCK UP NOOB

Never seen it happen in reality. You really have a deep seated need to make me see something that doesn't exist. I suggest you see someone about this problem.

Re:/themes/slashcode/templates/errors;comments;def

[Anonymous Coward]

I thought I told you to go troll somebody else.

One question:

[failure-man]

I'm probably asking the same question as the lefties, but for a different reason: is it left-hand-friendly?

I'm ambidexterous and want to use two of them. Also a transformer company just bought me a bunch of free beer and I couldn't care less about the fucking article.

Re:One question:

[Noose For A Neck]

I guess that would depend on whether spent shells are ejected from the right side or not.

Re:One question:

[Anonymous Coward]

yup, completely ambidexterous - the wheel button can even be pressed form either side.

Re:/themes/slashcode/templates/errors;comments;def

[Anonymous Coward]

You don't get to tell me what to do, child.

Non-ironic alternative

[davidjohnburrowes]

In a twist of irony, the mouse is ergonomically shaped because the pistol grip alleviates stress on your carpal tunnel-ridden wrist

I enjoyed that comment and also want to point out that the "3M Renaissance mouse" is ergonomic for the same reason and lacks the irony of being a violent yet gentle device.

Disclaimer: My wrists are very happy beneficiaries of using this mouse, but I have no affiliation with anyone selling the thing.

Re:/themes/slashcode/templates/errors;comments;def

[Anonymous Coward]

I tell you what to do all the time when I order food from you at Wendy's. So why not obey now, aidsnigger.

Chances of getting this into Australia?

[B747SP]

Australian Customs are pretty strict on guns, and things that look like guns. Even the Old Namco Gun-Con for the original Playstation wasn't allowed in until the importers/manufacturers put flourescent orange tape up the sides. I wonder how we'll go with this one.

Having said that, one does see obviously illegal-import gaming 'guns' for sale at markets and stuff from time to time, and at least one online store in Australia claims to have stock of this PistolMouse, so some folks are sneaking under the radar.

Vertical mice aren't anything new though. I've been using the 3M 'Renaissance Mouse' for years now - I've got four of them in various places at home and work. A couple of random images courtesy google image search here.

A key point I've found with the 3M mice is that they're pretty hard to control for a few days, and you never really regain the fine control that you have with a regular horizontal mouse. I can't help but wonder if the relative lack of control will be a problem for gamers. Remember, this 'gun' must slide around on the surface of a table, so it's going to operate like a vertical mouse, not a free-moving gun. I often keep two mice plugged into my computers - one of these for long-term comfort, and a regular mouse for when I need fine control, say with photoshop or the Gimp.

Re:Chances of getting this into Australia?

[B747SP]

that they're pretty hard to control for a few days,

IMTS "they're pretty hard to control accurately for a few days, until you get used to them", or WTTE.

Re:Chances of getting this into Australia?

[PPH]

...or our local schools. Zero tolerance policy on anything repotely shaped like a gun.

Kids have gotten suspended for pointing a finger and saying "Bang!"

Re:Chances of getting this into Australia?

[Brianwa]

I've seen this happen in America as well.

Re:Chances of getting this into Australia?

[swv3752]

Y axis requires moving the whole arm but due to the placement of the sensor, you can twist your wrist for very fine control on the X axis.

Re:Chances of getting this into Australia?

[fishbowl]

>..or our local schools. Zero tolerance policy on
>anything repotely shaped like a gun.
>
>Kids have gotten suspended for pointing a finger
>and saying "Bang!"

This is one of the more obvious things that, to me, distinguishes today's wartime attitude from the Vietnam-era attitide.

During the Johnson administration, the toy market had a sudden glut of realistic war toys. There was a life-size GI-Joe spinoff line that had little rubber-band-loaded mines that would pop, guns that would shoot projectiles, camo stuff, Tonka tanks (I don't remember if they were Tonka branded, but they were realistic looking and tough), the list goes on and on. The propaganda was everywhere in toys. I especially remember a pod-mounted BAR that would shoot little hard plastic bullets off a ribbon magazine. Nowadays, you can't even get anything that shoots soft projectiles like the Star Trek phaser with its cool little uv-reactive discs (that didn't even hurt when they hit you...)

Today, there seems to be a different kind of propaganda, and it appears to be aimed at sensitizing children to televised violence while distracting them from any associations to real, immediate violence. Or something like that.

Innovative designs

[chrism238]

I use a mouse shaped like a steering wheel, with two foot pedals attached - well, that's what I tell my boss it's for, anyway.

bleh

[GregoryD]

Anyone want mine? I wouldn't even think of using such a thing. I won it at a lan party cs torney.

God awful thing.

Re:PEOPLE WITH MOD POINTS: CALL FOR HELP

[Anonymous Coward]

It has happened to me several times, though they are not as bad as they used to be. First they blocked my anonymous posting. Then I got modded down logged in and that was blocked too. So there you have it. Please mod down the crapflooder. Also, if it's not too much trouble could the editors get off there asses and block the crapflood on trolltalk so us trolls can hang out there instead of here.

Due to excessive bad posting from this IP or Subnet, comment posting has temporarily been disabled. You can still login to post. However, if bad posting continues from your IP or Subnet that privilege could be revoked as well. If it's you, consider this a chance to sit in the timeout corner or login and improve your posting . If it's someone else, this is a chance to hunt them down. If you think this is unfair, please email moderation@slashdot.org with your MD5'd IPID and SubnetID, which are "xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx" and "xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx" and (optionally, but preferably) your IP number "xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx" and your username "xxxxxxxxx".

Touch Screen

[imess]

Anyone use it to play fps? How long do they last?

If it ain't broke...

[Andy Gardner]

Honestly why do they keep trying to re-invent the wheel here, what's wrong with the mouse? Give me a way of controlling my PC just by thinking about it, until then I'm not interested.

Re:If it ain't broke...

[Ravenrage]

"what's wrong with the mouse?" you must be a mac user...... seriously the mouse has come a long way i mean from the first mouse with only one button to two and the scroll wheel don't forget the optical mouse...if we are going towards a 3d ui then the way we interact with it.......in otherwords if you don't like a nonstandard mouse then don't buy it.....shut your mouth and vote with your wallet......

Re:If it ain't broke...

[faloi]

Ever done CAD work for hours at a time... Day after day? It got to the point where I couldn't take using a mouse without some pain. I've swapped out to trackballs, and haven't had a problem since. I'm not likely to go for the "Look out, he's got a mouse!" variety of mouse, but I'm always interested in seeing if something better comes out.

Re:If it ain't broke...

[Andy Gardner]

I don't quite understand what you mean by, I must be a mac user. Are you implying there is something wrong with the pc mouse?

I also don't agree with you that there has been any fundamental design changes in the way we use a mouse today. The way in which movement of the forearm and wrist is used to control the pointer is based on exactly the same functionality concieved by Douglas Engelbart in the early 60's. Unless of course you consider adding another button to be a revolution in design.

I think you'll find the reason the basic design principals of the mouse havn't changed is because they work very well. Why go altering the dynamic of the arm so as to put more strain on the upper arm? You can see immediately that this gun type of 'mouse' will be uncomfortable to use over prelonged periods. And as you suggested I will be voting with my wallet and it won't be costing me $40 to find this out.

I also use a mouse most days throughout the week and coincidentaly have been doing alot of CAD in a CAE module at university and haven't come across any problems. I will conceed however that i don't do it proffesionaly every day week in week out. I've also used a trackball and found it very practical however i couldn't use one for day to day computing, which I believe is where the mouse excels.

Official Trolltalk Crapflood Bunker

[Anonymous Coward]

Welcome Trolls.

If you want us to leave, please mod down or if you are an editor simply ban the person crapflooding trolltalk

Re:Official Trolltalk Crapflood Bunker

[Harish Rallapali]

Secure you some K-line rations of gay pornography?

BONGHITS IN THE BACK, FOLKS

comfy but counterintuitive.

[gojrocknyc]

got one as a gift; its comfy but counterintuitive. not recommended.

would work great for mame

[Hohlraum]

most/all MAME emulated games that support a light gun also support a mouse but not visa versa. So this means that games like Terminator 2 will work great.

and a hoot to travel with by air.

[jlowery]

Oh yeah, those TSA guys are well known for their sense of humor. Why not really laugh it up with:

1) batteries wrapped together with duct tape
2) biohazard stickers on your carry-on
3) a fuse taped to the heel of your shoe
4) a snazzy tinfoil hat
5) fond rememberances of the time you met Osama

Re:and a hoot to travel with by air.

[Master of Transhuman]

Don't forget the penguins...

Re:and a hoot to travel with by air.

[fishbowl]

If you were going to travel with one of these, you'd want to go through the steps at checkin that you would go through with a real firearm, or perhaps a more realistic comparison, with a paintball gun. Have it in a locked, hard container, and let them decide that it's okay. I'd never even consider taking a pistol-shaped object through the regular x-ray line. I don't care how benign it's supposed to be. I travel with guns from time to time, and I must say, it's pretty easy to do. You just have to follow the TSA instructions, and the instructions the airline gives you.

This thing is a "toy gun" as far as the TSA will consider it, and that seems like a reasonable designation to me. So go to the checkin agent, and explain to them, "I have a toy gun in my checked baggage." You'll have a much better experience than if you surprise the X-Ray folks with it. This is as straightforward a process as it could be, with a *real* gun. Occasionally there is a stressful moment, when the agent at the counter takes your gun out and holds it up where people in line behind you can see it. You can tell it freaks them out.

What you don't do, is head right to the X-Ray line with anything that's going to be seen as unusual, especially if it's shaped like a pistol! You might as well walk into the airport with your pistol out, yelling "nobody move, I have a gun", racking the slide, and pointing it in random directions. Not recommended.

What ever happened to...

[Anonymous Coward]

...the light pen? I've never understood why the stylus and pad arrangement isn't more popular (aside from pda's of course, which are popular but look quite useless to me). Paper and pencil has been around for ages, why aren't people doing more to improve upon them in a practical sort of way?

Server go boom?

[derfy]

products.shtml is 404, and pistolmouse.com gives the default cPanel information.

A google check shows a monstergecko.com address with similiar content.

Any ideas?

SLCentral had a review on this two months ago

[Anonymous Coward]

http://www.slcentral.com/monstergecko-pistolmouse- fps/

Looks cool, but I can see it being hard to use.

Slashdotted

[Anonymous Coward]

For fucks sake, how many people have to whine about duped articles and smoked servers before slashdot does something about it?

This site makes money, because you come and visit.

Not a Glock

[arashi no garou]

According to the review, the mouse is "shaped very much like a Glock 9mm handgun". I'm sorry, but that is most definitely not shaped like a Glock. The mouse's grip is way too long, and the barrel is too short.

Re:Not a Glock

[Anonymous Coward]

good call, that was really bothering me too

Re:Not a Glock

[Anonymous Coward]

Some pics for comparison. I agree, it looks nothing like a Glock to me.

http://www.glock.com/te_english.htm

Erm... This isn't exactly new...

[D14BL0]

I mean... After all, I thought these things were goofy about four years ago. I don't think they're any less goofy now.

Old news

[oskard]

This thing has been out for a while now. The reviews, which were posted years ago, basically say its garbage and awkward to use.

MOD PARENT UP

[Anonymous Coward]

He is correct in how the timeout-corner works. The other guy is a total fucking idiot that doesn't know what the fuck he is talking about. Downmods on AC posts can and do get you in timeout. On the other hand, maybe that tard really knows this and is just trying to troll people who know the truth. Either way, he is a dipshit.

Is it really?

[SupremeTaco]

Its Linux compatible . . .

What's next, a Linux compatible keyboard?

Now if only the gun makers...

[AnotherScratchMonkey]

Now if only the gun makers...

made a gun that looked like a mouse. Or a joystick.

Re:Now if only the gun makers...

[Brianwa]

I once heard of one that looked like a cell phone. It used the 'antenna' as a .22 barrel and held five rounds IIRC.

I'll take it :)

[OgreFade]

Why not?

MOD PARENT DOWN

[Anonymous Coward]

All of you, SHUT the HELL UP!!!

Oblig family guy

[rob_squared]

I'm Petie the pistol. If you squeeze me I make bad people go away!

Pistol Joystick on the Bally Arcade

[jamiefaye]

The early Z-80 based Bally Arcade console gaming system (circa 1977) came with joystick hand controls that had a pistol grip. The grips looked like the handles on a Colt revolver with the joystick sticking out of the top. You would hold the joystick by the gun-handle with one hand, work the joystick with the other, and fire the trigger with the 'holding hand'. There was also a potentiometer so you could twist the knob on top of the joystick back and forth.

The design was very good ergonometrically. Unfortunately, it was made by an outfit in Taiwan that had poor quality control, in particular the pots became noisy very quickly.

A couple of reasons light guns are no more...

[mbessey]

1. Light guns aren't very accurate
2. They don't work at all with LCD screens
3. They need accurate synchronization with the vertical blank signal, and a low-latency interrupt, which are hard to arrange with modern graphics cards and operating systems.

-Mark

NEWs...?

[admdrew]

Is it just me, or is this not really new news? I heard about the pistol mouse awhile ago, and the article linked is from October of last year. Not that I want to be a little bitch about this, but I'm just surprised something like this got accepted. It's neat, yeah, and relatively new, but you'd think NEWS items should be a bit newer than over 6 months.

Ha! That's nothing

[Daath]

That's for kids! I glued my 9mm glock to my logitech mouse! People get a lot more scared than with that girly toy gun!

Chances of getting Willy-whipped?

[Anonymous Coward]

"Kids have gotten suspended for pointing a finger and saying "Bang!""

Good thing they didn't whip out "Willy", and say "BANG!"

Left-handers left out once again.

[Allison Geode]

looking at the design of that, it looks like it would be COMPLETELY unusable for a left handed person since the scroll wheel would be right under the crease between my thumb and trigger-finger. AUGH!! I know i'm a minority here, but come on! when will they make things for us lefties??

Re:Left-handers left out once again.

[Jedi Alec]

ehmm, never. left-handed mice/input devices don't make a profit and making a profit is what companies are all about.

Re:Left-handers left out once again.

[Anonymous Coward]

I like cats. I *really* like cats. Seriously. I am the Cat Man Do!

I don't usually reply to signatures, but what in the hell are you talking about?

Re:Left-handers left out once again.

[acrimony]

stupid Flanders..

Re:Left-handers left out once again.

[Anonymous Coward]

Quitcha bitchen - it is ~completely~ ambidexterous. The wheel is accessable from both sides and the wheel button can be used from both sides - everything about this mouse is completely symmetrical.

[Penis] the original point and click interface

[Anonymous Coward]

Apparently that's all I have to say, but amazingly it's on topic in this story.

Just think...

[empvirus]

...you will now be able to shoot at your computer harmlessly when angry. Sorta sounds like fun.

come here little girl

[Anonymous Coward]

hey little girl.. why don't you came over and I can show U MY pleasure pistol..

Perific. More buttons and more options.

[richie2000]

The Perific Dual Mouse already does this, except it can also be used as a regular mouse, two-handed, pistol-grip, you name it. It's probably even better ergonimically speaking, since it allows for more varied usage. And, it has more buttons and a trackball. Win-win!

Re:/themes/slashcode/templates/errors;comments;def

[Master of Transhuman]

Not to intrude on your love fest, but that exact message was given to me at one point.

You wanna know something slashdotter

[Anonymous Coward]

Fellow /.ers!

I found out that if people group together in order knock down a site is against the law.

Oh well... they cannot jail us all!

haha

later /.ers!

Its Linux compatible

[stuness]

"Oh, if you want it to be possessive it's just eye tee ess,
but if it's supposed to be a contraction, it's eye tee apostrophe ess, ... scalawag."

http://www.homestarrunner.com/sbemail89.html
Click on the beefy arm!

Bullet Proof

[nwf]

Just a shot in the dark, but I guess there server isn't bullet proof...

Hello.

[Xyl3ne]

Welcome to October 4th, 2004!

I think the cat would win...

[No Such Agency]

Google for "pistol cat".

Re:I think the cat would win...

[Anonymous Coward]

Google for "pistol cat".

Amazing. You actually found that with Google? Apparently search engines aren't penalizing sites for invisible-text markup like <body bgcolor="#666666" text="#666666" link="#666666" vlink="#666666" alink="#666666"> like they used to in the '90s.

Daisy, Red Rider...

[sjsoko]

...you'll shoot your eye out, Kid.

nice review.

[Anonymous Coward]

Not.
They said 'it's different from using a regular mouse' but never bothered to say how, exactly. They spent a lot of time talking about how it looks and very little talking about how it actually works. Whatever. For some reason, reading this review made me think of wet slurping sounds. Glad to know "objective" reviews can still be found.

Ollllld...

[PigleT]

I thought there was something similar (pistol grip with a tiny mini-joystick on top) for the Amstrad CPC range, oh, um about 10-15yrs ago?! ;)

RTFR

[Anonymous Coward]

If you had read the review, you'd have found that the scroll wheel is ambidexterous.

Re:RTFR

[Allison Geode]

the review was slashdotted by the time i got here. however, the pictures of the actual product on the site show the wheel as being on the left hand side of the gun. that does not equal ambidexterous, at least not if you want to remain ergonamic.

Perfect for work

[Anonymous Coward]

Uh, boss, the EHS folks say I should get a more ergonimic mouse, could you just sign off on this req.?

$14.99 at EBGames.com

[Anonymous Coward]

At that price, I'll try one out.

Re:/themes/slashcode/templates/errors;comments;def

[PriceIke]

Happened to me just last week. I posted "first post" on an article making some crack about how it is a Slashvertisement. That started people modding it down as "Troll" and "Offtopic", countered by others modding it up "Funny" and "Insightful". In less than a day, I could no longer post AC "due to excessive bad posting". It was one freakin post. I dunno, maybe people who make "Slashvertisement" jokes are automatically put into timeout ...

Not for serious gamers.

[g0bshiTe]

This was covered on /. before. The review I read of it the last time stated that "it does relieve carpal tunnel, but increases stress on the shoulder and elbow from the need to move the entire arm as opposed to a slight wrist movement" I also think that the design is lacking, while the mouse "looks great" and would be a novel addition to any desk, it just isn't practical for any serious gaming.

I'd be interested in seeing what actual gaming owners of this device have to say about it.

Available for under $15 US

[tsstahl]

EB games link from page one of the article is selling the gunmouse for 14.99 + shipping. http://www.ebgames.com/ebx/product/255244.asp?site ID=neQRQBqOKtQ-BZN0obLWZNVeG7HQQK%2FUMg

fools.. the world is full them..

[Anonymous Coward]

Okay, I have mod points, but in a continuing issue I have with using them, there is no -1 (or maybe -3) for being totally uninformed and just plain wrong.

All Glock pistols have safety features. All of them.

When you look at what a safety is supposed to do, you realize how stupid that comment is.

A safety is designed to prevent a firearm from going off when it should not go off. This is usually NOT the case when your finger is in the trigger guard and pulling on the trigger itself. The integrated safety system built into the trigger-pull is an automatic feature, and it prevents people from squeezing the trigger before they are ready to fire, which is a BAD BAD habit. People wind up shot when an idiot assumes the safety is engaged and the gun is 'safe'.

Try thinking about it another way- If you know bullet is going to come out of the barrel when you squeeze the trigger, you're going to be much more careful when you actually squeeze it.

Oh ya, one more thing- Get a damned clue before you go making asinine statements like the one above.

I don't get that problem....

[Khyber]

I play Time Crisis almost religiously every day in the arcades, at least for two to three hours. After time, you build up a tolerance (anyone remember wrestling class when you had to hold those weights out to the side, level with your shoulders, for 15-20 minutes at a time?)

Dear god...

[IntergalacticWalrus]

I stopped reading the review after the reviewer said "It's usually a good sign when a manufacturer pays close attention to its packaging."

I guess it's Apple compatible too. Haha.