Slashdot Mirror
DVD-Audio's CPPM Circumvented
Bodysurf writes "After DVD-Video's CSS encryption was broken in 1999, the music industry chose a much more secure copy-protection method for DVD-Audio called Copy Protection for PreRecorded Media (CPPM). This protection scheme has remained publicly uncracked, but it was circumvented recently, providing the ability to save the unencrypted digital audio data. CDFreaks has the details."
We deserve our free use.
And we will take it by any and all means.
RTFA again for the best results.
Sadly, they will never learn.
-SS "Teach the ignorant, care for the dumb, and punish the stupid."
Anyone got a mirror?
With so many ppl on
So you can hack a software player to store the stream. In other news, Water is Wet.
Test your net with Netalyzr
where's dvd jon at?
I'm a little surprised--why did it take so long for someone to do this? It seems that lately every freakin' copy protection scheme that comes out is cracked within minutes. Maybe Jon Johansen was asleep for this one? :)
What was that saying?
"To view it, we have to decrypt them. If we can decrypt them, we can rip them."
The only "secure" media format is a CD laminated between two plates of steel.
Hilary Rosen's speech was about her love of money and her desire to roll around naked in a pile of money.
Surely they could use similar technologies as (some people) do by say, buying that little $100 thingy at circuit city or radioshack and plugging it into 2 dvd players so you can copy anything you want. Not really that hard... costs $100 plus 2 dvd players
"For every lock there is a key"
Gotta love fair use!
Visualize Whirled P.'s
Perhaps interest will grow in DVD-Audio now that consumers can exercise their fair-use rights. I know that I'll now consider it now that I can copy it and use it like a juke box in my living room.
I bet in another 5 years, they'll come out with some ultra-new technology that is REALLY crackproof.
Its like Tide... its new and improved? You mean there are people STILL working on Tide? (Yeah I know, Seinfeld!)
And they said zombies weren't real!
Can all of you please stop clicking on the cdfreaks story link so I can have a chance to read it?
Region coding on DVDs has caused enough headaches for people. The idea of having DVD audio disks that don't allow ripping to your computer is idiotic.
CSS for DVDs didn't stop ripped DVD movies being downloaded by millions. Why does the recording industry think that some new encryption scheme will stop music pirates? All such encryption does is make the lives of legitimate users hard.
Copy protection is just stupid. These companies spend all this money to prevent it from getting cracked, but it always does in the end. If some company was to just say "We're not going to use copy protection because people will get around it anyways" (or something around those lines) I would buy their product immediately.
Software is like sex. It's better when it's free. -Linus Torvalds
Anyhoo, this is good news.
;)
Now I can rip this stuff off to 64K MP3, then convert it over to Real, and finally through to it's final form as a DRM'ed WMA.
Chas - The one, the only.
THANK GOD!!!
CDfreaks has nothing to do with this release. The guys from RareWares are the ones taking risks to bring these tools to the community.
http://www.rarewares.org/
"We deserve our free use.
And we will take it by any and all means."
The constitutional right to be entertained must remain in force.
http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?show topic=34368&st=0&p=310943&#entry310943/
Geez, couldn't you at least wait until some good stuff was released on the format before cracking it?
Now the copyright cartel will probably just kill the format, and try again with stronger encryption.
This, of course, is not meant by me to imply that any form of mass-consumer DRM is at all uncrackable. They're all doomed in my view.
So I guess it is more fun this way. Crack it early, and hope they come up with something more interesting. More challenging.
Most of my DVD-Audio disks are two channel 24bit 96khz. What codec should I use? I am interested in lossless archiving of my disks. FLAC? Thanks for any input.
That's great, now if only someone could figure out how to circumvent getting Slashdotted.
Good old coral cache
http://www.cdfreaks.com.nyud.net:8090/news/12061
I know this fight against the Man is so very romantic, but the companies can opt out of this arms race in which the hackers have the advantage. The more and more this encryption breaking is done, the industry will spend less and less money on developing new encryption schemes, and instead spend more and more on buying Senators and Representatives to pass draconian measures to prevent you from legally trying (thinking about how) to break the schemes.
Considering the site already seems to be slashdotted...
.WAV files.
---
DVD-Audio's CPPM can be got around with a WinDVD patch
Posted by Sean Byrne on 06 July 2005 - 09:50 - Source: Rarewares
When DVD-Video's encryption had been broken about 6 years back, the next generation of the Audio CD, DVD-Audio had been delayed for several months. It was originally to use the CSS2 encryption scheme, but the breaking of CSS meant the music industry no longer wanted anything to do with CSS in the new upcoming DVD-Audio format at the time. As a result, DVD-Audio took on Content Protection for Pre-recorded Media (CPPM), a much more advanced copy-protection system, which includes Key Blocks and watermarking and allows revocation (for compromised devices).
It was not long ago that DVD-Audio playback software came to the PC. For example Creative's SoundBlaster Audigy 2 comes with a DVD-Audio as well as WinDVD's DVD-Audio add-on. So, rather than try to compromise the DVD-Audio's encryption itself, someone has succeeded in making a patch that uses WinDVD to perform the decryption and playback, but instead pipes the decrypted audio output to the hard drive instead of the sound card. The patch which includes several tools requires WinDVD 5, 6 or 7 to work.
Several tools to work with DVD-Audio (read: ripping)
They require WinDVD 5, 6 or 7 installed, as they don't do the decryption themselves, and instead patch WinDVD to output the decrypted stream to disk instead of the sound card.
The tools are:
- DVD-A ripper: Intended to decrypt CPPM protected AOB and VOB files on DVD-Audio discs.
- PPCM ripper: Intended to capture Packed PCM (MLP) stream (stereo or multichannel) to
- DVD-A Explorer: Intended to peep&grab on DVD-Audio tracks (PCM and Packed PCM).
This tool is available at Rarewares here [http://www.rarewares.org/others.html%5D.
While InterVideo is likely to update its software to block the use of this patch, it appears that DVD-Audio's CPPM has been compromised at least in DVD-Audio discs up until this time or until the keys used in the current versions of WinDVD that this tool works on are revoked in upcoming DVD-Audio disc releases. However, this would also mean that WinDVD users would be forced to update their software to play future DVD-Audio discs.
If you encrypt it, they will hack.
Link to software
"DVD Audio Tools", second from bottom.
So, rather than try to compromise the DVD-Audio's encryption itself, someone has succeeded in making a patch that uses WinDVD to perform the decryption and playback, but instead pipes the decrypted audio output to the hard drive instead of the sound card.
While certainly useful for WinDVD users who aren't able to do this natively (guessing that Windows can't do this redirection natively, hence the news story), this is really "circumvention" at its most basic level. Well, almost...one step up from sticking a tape recorder next to your speakers. Not quite the "fair use" that will "break open" the DVD-Audio market that many posters will no doubt clamor over, and nowhere near a true solution to the problem.
And to those familiar with this patch: Is the output even in a standard format capable of more than two channels?
Ever since I started using audio on my computer I have been recording a lot myself. I assume this is still possible, so what's the big deal with cracking this stuff, other than the fact that you don't have to sit through it and do it manually (maybe that IS the big deal).
When I first heard about mp3 I just put a cd in my drive, played it and recorded the stream (using Sound Forge, but might as well have been using windows sound recorder) and then chopped up the wav and encoded to mp3. Is there something stopping people from doing that now, other than laziness?
But the reputation of the format here on /. is that it was created because they (the RIAA) wanted to prevent ripping. So which is it?
The problem with the "prevent ripping" choice is that, AFAIK, there are no releases on DVD-A that isn't also available on CD.
I imagine the only reason it took so long is because no one gives a damn about DVD-Audio (: The last DVD-Audio disc I actually saw was the test one that came with my previous DVD player.
Now that I'm free to do what I want with this (relatively) new format, I think its time I bought a player and some discs...
If only the RIAA and the MPAA understood that...
Deja Vu
n. 1. The sensation that you've read this very article before.
As long as they provide people with a way to hear the music, there will be a way to store the stream. Not to mention that any possible encryption is hax0red within 12 minutes of it's release.
Instead of companies giving up on protection, I would love to see them give a nod to the hackers by making it something really simple like a key of "12345". How much does your job suck when you design this encryption? You know that the work you did for the last 10 years will last about 2 days.
/. ++
I don't like feeding trolls, but at the end of the day, Taco is married and you probably never will be.
There is no hack for MS's latest encoded audio or video formats.
The one that's out there is for a 4 year old format and never really worked.
If you have a Creative Soundblaster you already probably have a tool to rip Audio DVD's to a wav file. Unless they've ripped it out of the software in recent years the Soundblaster has always had a setting to record directly from the soundcard processor "What you hear".
Why anyone would purchase an update to WinDVD is beyond me. The only thing they've added to newer versions is increased restrictions on installation via web based serial number checking.
I've four legally acquired versions of WinDVD and they all do the same thing, which is play DVD's.
Plain and simple, the format allows the companies to disable your machine. Not only are they trying to control the music that you buy, but now they are wanting to control your machine.
Funny thing is, that kids today can control the industry as they are the main buyers of the music.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
As one of the 3 people in the world who actually own DVD-Audio discs I am very excited about this. Thankfully I was able to get the story and programs before the server went up in flames. I'm alredy ripping my Nine Inch Nails With Teeth DualDisc and it seems to be working quite well. I also had to rip the VIDEO_TS folder after using DVDADecrypter to get WinDVD to read the files when I loaded PPCMRipper. Now it's decoding, and I can't seem to get it to get the multichannel audio. Also, its cutting off the first few seconds of the first track on the disc, but if you hit the back button it starts reencoding the first track. Maybe I could just use a normal dvd audio ripper for this part...
http://www.cdfreaks.com/news/12061 DVD-Audio's CPPM can be got around with a WinDVD patch
.WAV files.
Posted by Seán Byrne on 06 July 2005 - 09:50 - Source: Rarewares
When DVD-Video's encryption had been broken about 6 years back, the next generation of the Audio CD, DVD-Audio had been delayed for several months. It was originally to use the CSS2 encryption scheme, but the breaking of CSS meant the music industry no longer wanted anything to do with CSS in the new upcoming DVD-Audio format at the time. As a result, DVD-Audio took on Content Protection for Pre-recorded Media (CPPM), a much more advanced copy-protection system, which includes Key Blocks and watermarking and allows revocation (for compromised devices).
It was not long ago that DVD-Audio playback software came to the PC. For example Creative's SoundBlaster Audigy 2 comes with a DVD-Audio as well as WinDVD's DVD-Audio add-on. So, rather than try to compromise the DVD-Audio's encryption itself, someone has succeeded in making a patch that uses WinDVD to perform the decryption and playback, but instead pipes the decrypted audio output to the hard drive instead of the sound card. The patch which includes several tools requires WinDVD 5, 6 or 7 to work.
Several tools to work with DVD-Audio (read: ripping)
They require WinDVD 5, 6 or 7 installed, as they don't do the decryption themselves, and instead patch WinDVD to output the decrypted stream to disk instead of the sound card.
The tools are:
* DVD-A ripper: Intended to decrypt CPPM protected AOB and VOB files on DVD-Audio discs.
* PPCM ripper: Intended to capture Packed PCM (MLP) stream (stereo or multichannel) to
* DVD-A Explorer: Intended to peep&grab on DVD-Audio tracks (PCM and Packed PCM).
This tool is available at Rarewares here.
While InterVideo is likely to update its software to block the use of this patch, it appears that DVD-Audio's CPPM has been compromised at least in DVD-Audio discs up until this time or until the keys used in the current versions of WinDVD that this tool works on are revoked in upcoming DVD-Audio disc releases. However, this would also mean that WinDVD users would be forced to update their software to play future DVD-Audio discs.
A search of Amazon shows only 36 hits for "dvd-audio" in the music section, and several of those are actually SACD, not DVD-Audio. Wow. Think of the losses! It could run in the tens of thousands of Yen!
It doesn't matter what kind of "copy protection" a disc has, I can always get around it. How? Simple. My sound card supports "What U Hear", so basically, it can record sound streams from your computer (ie, if you're playing a flash movie in your browser, and hit record "What U Hear", the sounds from the flash movie, and any other sounds on your computer will be recorded in the exact quality as you hear it).
So yeah, it's just a waste of money.
" scheme has remain publicly uncracked,"
"Me fail English? Thats unpossible" --Ralph Wiggums
The title of TFA:
I hate to be a grammar Nazi, but WHAT THE FUCK????
Now if they could crack a format that is actually used, like DRM:ed WMV/WMA.
(Yeah, I know Freeme cracks the old version)
My other comment is funny
LOL. What does that have to do with anything? I think the statistic is that over half of all married couples will get divorced. Besides, some people (I am somewhat tempted to do this myself) get married simply for the financial benefits. At least then I wouldn't be pussy-whipped. Most guys probably don't want to ever get married. Have you ever been around married men? They are a disgrace to mankind. They are pratically begging to be put out of their misery. Sooner or later, all married men will be broken.
Open source is evil - Steve Jobs
Open source is evil - Bill Gates
Or didn't you know that one of the primary backers of software patents in Europe is Apple?
It's not _really_ cracked until I can do it all with open source tools.
I realize that the parent is off-topic, but regardless how can you mod that down? It was a perfect counter-troll. Executed to perfection. If I only had mod points I would correct this injustice!
CyricZ, I salute you. You have earned a +5 Counter-Troll modding IMO.
The laws of probability forbid it!
Here's why:
As cited in the article, this only compromised WinDVD. CPPM, like CSS, has player keys that are specific to the player hardware/software being used. This did not actually reclaim the player key from WinDVD, and even if it did, the player key can be deactivated in future releases, so that future DVD-Audio DVDs can still play. Hence, for true cracking, all of the player keys need to be discovered.
Furthermore, if only WinDVD is compromised, it will send a signal to content companies to support such formats as SACD, as the format's design naturally prevents playback (and hence any sort of ripping) on computers entirely (as the technology has not been licensed).
"For every lock there is a k... uh.. oh, hey, look, you can just slip this lock right off the doorknob without even having to unlock it. Neat!"
Irritable, left-wing and possibly humorous bumper stickers and t-shirts
Does WinDVD work in Wine?
Irritable, left-wing and possibly humorous bumper stickers and t-shirts
Double Vaginal, Double anal?
fudge me!
"While InterVideo is likely to update its software to block the use of this patch, it appears that DVD-Audio's CPPM has been compromised at least in DVD-Audio discs up until this time or until the keys used in the current versions of WinDVD that this tool works on are revoked in upcoming DVD-Audio disc releases."
It would seem their copy protection scheme will block this work around by revoking keys as pointed out in the article. So until someone comes out with a real crack, CPPM will remain a pain.
Or they in a Tai Ka Wando manouver, utilise the tools that pirates develop, against the pirates. Why should they do all the hard work?
Why do you think some chub was "attractive" until recently? Men have been deluded by the media insisting that skinny is attractive, when in reality: The wider, the better.
Well it's not like Taco is so svelt himself.....
So where exactly is it stated that fair use means having a perfect digital reproduction of the copyrighted material you own?
It has already been ruled that fair use does mean getting an entire, digital copy of media. Go ahead and record the audio coming out of a DVD-Audio, there's nothing in the encryption that can stop that.
Forget the whales - save the babies.
Now I can finally get a rip of the collected works of the Starland Vocal Band!
If my grammar and spelling are off, I am [distracted/tired/careless] (take your pick)
then you can copy it. Period. The quality might not be perfect, but in the case of digital recordings on PC's, it usually is.
"If only the RIAA and the MPAA understood that..."
Why should they give you what you want, when you all aren't ready to give them what they want?*
*Compensation, for all you smart-alecs.
This is just the same thing. Right now, DVD audio is an obscure thing that few people have heard of or seen around, and even if you know it exists, you gotta be crazy to buy one. Now it should become less crazy, and publishers will start to have a reason to use the format.
You just can't seriously be in the market until your format is usable. It's just common sense.
As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
For audio I guess you could theoretically allow only analog output, although I seriously doubt DVD-Audio players will have no digital out. But for movies, I really don't see why they even bother trying to stop ripping at all, as long as there's such a thing as the DVI out port.
sudo ergo sum
TZ
It seems to me that this method of "cracking" a DVD-Audio disk wouldn't even be subject to prosecution under the DMCA. Just as there is no circumvention of encryption going on when your ears hear the outputted audio, no circumvention is happening here when the raw data is saved instead of played.
I have a couple of Audio DVDs. When I play them, they only play through my SoundBlaster Audigy 2. I have a professional card that has far superior DACs and opamps, and thus far superior sound, but it won't play through it. Why? Well the pro card plays by my rules, it will route any input to any output, allow logging to disk, allow full resolution digital output, etc. Thus, the driver isn't certified. The Audigy 2 will accept encrypted input from the program, shut off digital outs, deny recording capability, etc.
So a program like this IS a restration of fair use. It has nothing to do with free music, I mean shit, DVD-A is 50MB/minute COMPRESSED, I don't really think there'll be a lot of intrest in trading that online. What it's about is the ability to listen to music the way I want, on teh hardware I want.
well, duh... I say this all the time, (pissing many colleagues off, since I'm part of the "Music Industry") - Get over copy protection, that genie's been out of the bottle for a long time, and it ain't going back in. Try making better music instead. EOF.
As usual, too many people lose sight of the goal of encryption. It's not to be "foolproof" where no one can make copies, it's to make it hard enough that the casual music fan decides it's easier just to buy the music than go through the hassle of installing software.
Sometimes it's best to just let stupid people be stupid.
Flamebait I see, especially on this site. Immoral? Don't make me laugh. The US trying to jam it's laws, which are designed to protect corporate nabobs not artists, down their throats is immoral. Especially when they piss on other countries laws regularly. Illegal, only in the US and a couple of other countries.
Guess what cowboy? Slashdot is not the only place on the net where this info will be found. You believe Slashdot lives in a vacuum?
Further, to the vast majority of the planet, the US is a foreign government of questionable ethics. You are hard of thinking. Economic sanctions against the rest of the world, with your dependence on foreign oil etc. That's smart.
As for attacking other countries communications infrastructure. I believe that is called an act of war.
Also for the record. People here are not saying that artists should do their work for free. Just that when they buy it, they should be able to use the product on the equipment they own in the way they choose.
I fail to see how parent is insightful or informative or how this is a good post. Doesn't add anything useful.
Am I missing something?
Slashdot isn't nearly the only place. I'm advocating action on all sites.
What's moral is always smart in the long-term. For example, our country could have prevented Islamic terrorism by stopping the nationalization of American and British-owned oil fields in the 1950s.
War is sometimes necessary. Intellectual property is so important that it's worth fighting for. (But I don't think it'll come to that - other countries would much rather fix our laws that fight us. All we need to do is make them flinch.)
Sure, if someone wants to change formats on their own machine, that won't be really policed in many instances. But telling potentially everyone else how to do it (via a blog, for example) is easy to catch, and can only harm people.
Audio on DVD only? What a novel concept... What do they stick into the other 4GB of space on the DVD after the music runs out?
/. is getting boring...
Ohh... I bet it's used for "better" audio data.. Hmm... ok, I guess I could go for clearer notes of the Flogging Molly... What, not on DVD Audio?
Then why do we even care about this story?
Where the remote...
--- Relax, that mass muderer is just trying to reduce our carbon footprint, one fetus at a time...
Now I'm half-way there to not having to put my DVD-Audio discs into my DVD player. I am half-way closer to being able to place them on my music server instead.
I haven't been listening to them as much or buying them so much either, because of this requirement. So this will actually encourage me to purchase more of them.
Unfortunately, the other halves to this problem are to get playback from my media server, and to somehow get the DVD-Audio data to my receiver. The last half is probably going to be the hardest, since there's no multi-channel output from my iBook, and no firewire input on my receiver.
will *hurt* the riaa's and gates of the world!!
Thanx for making my day!! ;)
I will gladly loose all of life's battles.. in order to win the war..
But most don't care. I mean on most sound systems, you hust can't hear the difference. You have to have some pretty high quality gear to be able to get the benefit of 24-bit over 16. Also, seems most peopel these days are interested in listening on things like iPods, which means the multi-channel sound isn't useful to them.
Given how many people really believe 128k to be "CD quality" I think the bigass files will prove a hard sell. They'll be content to download the compressed files very quickly and call it good.
I discovered this amazing technology that no copy protection can protect against!
I figured I better announce it here since no one seems to have a clue about it!
THE LINE OUT JACKS ON MY SOUND CARD!
dumbasses.
George Bush + Linux = "I will not let information get in the way of the fight against Windows"
"and can only harm people." I speak as an artist when i say: No.
Just play ur DVD audio the normal way. Take a cable from your sound card output port and connect it to ur input port and run your favourite sound recording program. Ba bang.. your in business..
The post doesn't promote piracy. While it's easy to see how this tool could be used for piracy, and it's likely it will be used for piracy, all it does is allow the user to make an electronic copy of media that's already in his physical possession. Remember, if you don't already own a CPPM-protected disk, then this utility is useless.
/. story on DRM. But I'll keep repeating it as long as there are people wiling to parrot the industry crap about DRM being used to prevent piracy. Either that, or the mods start flagging me as "Redundant."
The purpose of CPPM (and just about every other DRM system) isn't to control piracy. As far as the pirates are concerned, most DRM systems are rendered irrelevant before the first protected media is ever produced. I can go online right now and download a DRM-free version of "Revenge of the Sith," but I couldn't acquire a protected version even if I wanted to. So when the DVD is released and it's "protected" by CSS, who are the studios trying to protect it from?
CPPM is similar. Connect to a P2P network and search for "DVDAudio." This stuff is already out there. If I want to get it without paying for it, I can download it right now, and this WinDVD patch is of no use to me whatsoever. If I'm a pirate, I don't give a shit. But if I'm an honest consumer and pay for my music in DVD-Audio format, then I have audio content that I can't play on my iPod. This is what this tool is useful for.
DRM doesn't control the pirate, it controls the honest consumer.
I feel like I make the same post every time there's a
I really don't see why they even bother trying to stop ripping at all, as long as there's such a thing as the DVI out port.
Because they're psychos, mahhhn.
I will gladly loose all of life's battles.. in order to win the war..
ObDefLeppard: Now we know the truth!
Anything I post is strictly my own thoughts and doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the opinions of IBM.
The value of a CD isn't in the bit of plastic, but in the music it contained and in the freedom it granted for you to listen to it whenever you wanted.
And yes, there's a more specific legal term for the act. There's also a perfectly good generic term for it as well. And people who do steal would prefer to hide the fact under a mask of doublespeak and a cloak of rationalization.
But I can see why others would prefer "infringement", as it sounds SO much better than stealing. Infringe? Why that's barely stepping a tippy-toe over the line... hardly worth even mentioning.
Any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so.
an AssHat!!
Plus you sound like a lier.. I mean lawyer. LOL!!
And don't forget BUSTER, there are 6.5 billion citizens on the earth, and only a hand full of people *like you* and your big-bad-governments who are over-reacting more and more everday, because they know that *we* are comming for them. :]
I will gladly loose all of life's battles.. in order to win the war..
As I said, no one is advocating piracy except for the odd kook. What they want is the right to use their media on their iPods, car cd players and computers without having to buy a special version for each. Will some use the tool for piracy. Yes. On the other hand, people are stabbed to death with steak knives and we don't ban their manufacture. Now those things really do hurt people.
Make countries flinch? Now that's lunacy. No one wants a war over something so dumb, but attacking their infrastructure will leave them no choice. And they are not all Iraqs and Afghanistans. Escalation is never a good thing unless you truly mean to follow through and that would be truly stupid. Pressuring them economically is just as foolish when you are running such high deficits. I won't even answer the goofiness that war is justified over something so dumb as IP. Necessary, at times yes, but over true injustice or defence of the realm. IP comes and goes. The free exchange of idea is what got us out of the caves. Get a clue, the EU rejected a constitution and a software patent law that pushed them towards American style capitalism. Get a clue. Most of the world tries to balance between people and business. How many Slashdot links do you want that show the US administration is getting loopy about how it treat business versus people.
Stopping nationalization of middle eastern countries oil supplies in the 50's would have stopped Islamic terrorism? Now that is loopy. Read Leon Uris. The Haj specifically. He actually describes the birth of terrorism in the camps of Palestine just after it was handed over to Israel. Stopping nationalization by force would have galvanized the movement sooner. Terrorism in the middle east started well before the 50's. And that Suez canal thing didn't turn out so hot either.
I could go on, but you need to get off the computer and see a therapist.
Ha *HA*!
1: Company A cracks Company B's more successful player and distributes said crack over Usenet.
2: Company B's keys are revoked, rendering their players useless.
3: PROFIT!
A 3-steps to Profit is a short pipeline indeed.
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
Its gonna go in any of the little MP3 players I have laying all over the place, and most likely be listened to on commodity headsets...
For this, resampled is fine by me.
As far as I am concerned, I have no problem honoring the exact bit patterns the Music Industry has Copyrighted. I won't use those bits... I will use other bits which do almost the same thing.
Same with the Video. Yes, the purchased disk has pure pristine factory perfect bits - and if thats what you want, please honor their copyright and buy their disk.
I don't really need all that resolution to watch on my (much) less than perfect system... a resampled XviD fascimile is fine by me, as it requires much less storage space.
If you read into this that I am justifying theft of content by creating derivatives of other's work, its nothing the entertainment industry hasn't already done anyhow. The latest glaring example in my mind was the story of Kimba, which became Simba in the Lion King.
Lawyers for the Industry have already looked into this, and decided it was OK, because it was not an EXACT copy. They did change the K to an S, and the color of the lion, so its NOT the same lion. I'll do better than that. I seriously doubt the file I make has *any* numerical correlation to the source file.
"Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." [KJV: I Thessalonians 5:21]
Higher is better!
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
It's like when someone has had problems with break-ins and people picking the lock to the front door. Well, the first solution is to replace the front door with a steel door and a super fancy lock. Then they're suprised that people went through the window.
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
And all the DRM system has to do is refuse to support your sound card.
End of discussion.
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
and use Wiretap, or Audio Hijack Pro. No patches, no mussing, anythin' you can play, you can record to disk. I'm just waiting for the video version...
Shoot the messenger!
If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
You specifically stated "recorded in the exact quality as you hear it". That's not true. Despite what you think is the same sound, some people have good enough ears and good enough stereo systems to discern between lossy and lossless audio. It's fine if your ears and system aren't good enough, but don't then go and claim that it's "recorded in the exact quality as you hear it" :)
You go ahead and wait a couple of years for a more clever solution to come along. I'm quite happy with this one.
If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
I can also tell you "fuck you" and find someone who isn't a fascist prick. I'm not required to deal with the RIAA
For the last few years I haven't bought one CD, as a direct response to this crap. They say we are "stealing" when the correct term is copyright infridgement.
I somehow supsect that is to divert our attention away from the fact that they have actually, in the true sense of the word stolen the public domain.
They violated the intent of copyright law first. See me care if I infridge now.
Not Buzzword 2.0 compliant. Please speak english.
Ummm, you could always use a cable.... a $2 cable, to play the DVD into your recording VCR. Encode the video signal back into your computer. Sure it isn't as pretty a picture, but with a bit of effort, you can share with all your friends, and the only folks who say 'its a bit fuzzy' are the HDTV mavens who expect all the world to be pristine. It's a simple enough way that even Grandma/Pa could do it. Sorry if this fair-use example blows away the DMCA and the legal eagles at the RIAA/MPAA. You were expecting a super-duper high tech method of breaking the system involving million dollar computers and long periods of research by the highly skilled few. Nope!
I don't understand your comment... please explain the following to me:
Define "Piracy". Does the word actually appear in any law that you know of?
Define "Immoral". Get a book on sociology if you don't know.
Define "Breach of Contract", "Specific Performance", "Equity", "Just Price", "Extortion" and "Monopoly" for me please.
I don't know much about history I'm afraid. Tell me more about this 1950's thingy, and how it promoted terrorism. I'm afraid I don't understand...
How are you going to make other countries flinch? Are you telling me people don't download music illegally in Iraq? If that's true I agree with you. As a matter of fact I have an idea!!! Let's bomb the shit out of the US and Europe, so internet stops working and people can't download music. Like that we'll stop piracy.
Another question: How are people going to illegally "change formats", as you very professionally call it in your comment, without being told how to do it? I personally make legal backups of all my music and DVD's so I can hear/view them on my HTPC. Without internet sites telling me how to do it I wouldn't be able to. As an audiophile I was waiting for dvd-a to be hacked. This is a great advancement in technology to me!
I'd like to thank you in advance for clearing these doubts up for me.
You are being somewhat selective in your civic values.
If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
And you just can't go wrong for gaming on it, hence why I own one. And I don't use it for recording, I have an Echo Layla 3G that I use for pro work. However, I'd like the Layla to play back DVD-A, since it's much higher quality. No dice, WinDVD won't talk to it, only to the Audigy 2. Hence my point about CPPM taking away rights and this software restoring them (at least somewhat).
first, the amerikan people do NOT want these laws because they are:
illegal,
immoral,
unenforcable (unless you call ruining kids lives by putting them in jail 'enforcing)
and the best way to fight these laws, is to stick our middle finger up at anyone, ESPECIALLY the Supreme Court Of Arswholes.
second: people *like you* need to leave.
three: i'm leaving, just incase you decide to stay :)
I will gladly loose all of life's battles.. in order to win the war..
I don't use windows OS at home, nor any product locked with it, so this wont work for me. But why not just make a fake audio driver that would write a file ? seems more robust solution to me the only drawback is the 1x speed of reaping.
On the plus side, though, many SACDs (the hybrid ones) at least have a plain old Red Book CD audio layer, which you can rip to your heart's content.
Granted, this doesn't really solve the burning desire to rip the high-res or surround version to a home media server, but it at least makes the DRM worlds less irritating. (Since you can still listen to the music on your MP3 player -- legally, even.)
Dude. You're on crack. Please tell me you didn't write that insane rambling sober and clean.
And for morals... How moral is it to steal the public domain. The reason copyright law was founded. You know, to enrich a public domain of arts and science. How moral is it to remain in possession of copyright when you kill of the public domain?
That's right. There is no longer no balance, and thus no reason of right for copyright protection. Unless the law is balanced back to something sane.
DRM is the ultimate theft of the public domain, and should be fought vigeriously.
Not Buzzword 2.0 compliant. Please speak english.
I'm not sure what crypto CPPM is using, but it is quite feasible to embed some damning information about the ripping computer (IP, MAC, timestamp, etc.) into the audio stream, and do so in a way that is resistant to analog resampling and other tortures. If the player really wants to be nasty, it can embed stuff like the user's password or credit card number (perhaps PK encrypted with the RIAA's public key). So basically think before you share.
0 00_abs.html
The article in which this was suggested:
http://www.wisdom.weizmann.ac.il/~naor/PAPERS/fc2
Your observation that my ears and system aren't good enough is also true.
And I think it was my parent's parent who made the claim that it's "recorded in the exact quality as you hear it", not me. ( With me, very few things are exact. )
My less-than-perfect fascimile is good enough for me. And I don't feel too bad because as I noted, even the big guys do it, and their own Lawyers and the Courts said it was OK.
Just don't make an EXACT copy. (IANAL).
"Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." [KJV: I Thessalonians 5:21]
Correction here: Right to Arm Bears (Severely off-topic, but whatever... :-) )
If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
How does this harm regular consumers?
Have you tried to backup up your original DVDs without using a DeCSSed ripper lately? Ahhhhhh.
Not Buzzword 2.0 compliant. Please speak english.
Microsoft and others have online activation crap ... So, it looks like the lesson learned has been "include copy protection, but don't make it too heinous on the customer
Which doesn't always work. Which sometimes doesn't even give you an installation ID you can phone in. When you got a legal, working setup and an activation pops out of fucking nowwhere. And then there's just no way of fixing it. Genius.
When I had to do a reinstall... Guess what? I used a pirated edition without activation to not ever see that crap happen again.
Fuck copy protection. All it does is piss off or annoy legit customers. The pirated goods always has it removed, so why should they care?
Not Buzzword 2.0 compliant. Please speak english.
If they would have look at this movie, they would have seen that even alien stardestroyer protection technology can be crack with a simple MAC C++ trojan and a wireless access.
No sig for now.
This technique is not new; people have been doing this for over a decade with RealAudio streams. Until people require decryption hardware in the speakers themselves, there will always be a way to divert the stream.
Well, while the two are in bed, it's important to realize that "the Man" and "the companies" are two different entities. "The Man" in this case, is whoever came up with the goofy format. "The companies" are the media companies who sell (or would sell) music in this format. The reason this is important, is that when you fight against The Man, you are probably doing "the companies" a huge favor by legitimizing their format and making it so that their customers will have a way to play the music -- and therefore have a reason to buy it.
Very true, but there's one thing you didn't mention. By cracking the encryption we don't allow free market forces report back to the companies that their shit isn't selling. People just buy it to crack and then do what they want with it.
There: Something at a specific location.
Their: Owned by someone.
Please make sure your english compiles.
I found it interesting that the descriptions of the tools that are listed in the article speak of Packed PCM, and only briefly mention the other name that this technology is known by (MLP, which I understand to stand for "Meridian Lossless Packing"). A while back, I'd submitted some commentary to the Macintouch web site regarding DVD Audio, and apparently I ruffled some feathers because I referred to this technology as Packed PCM (or PPCM to be super-brief).
One respondent reamed me for using that term, and said the "proper" term was Meridian Lossless Packing, or MLP. Of course, it turns out that this guy was somehow associated with or affiliated with the company that owns the trademark on the name and presumably any patents relevant to the technique.
It warms the cockles of my heart to see that I'm not the only person who hates being browbeat into using someone else's trademark. (Then again, there may be a licensing fee associated with the trademark, which may explain why my Technics DVD-A player's manual doesn't even mention MLP, preferring the term "P.PCM." This is probably similar to how Apple charges for the use of the trademarked term Firewire, so Sony calls it i.Link, and everyone else calls it IEEE 1394.)
""And we will take it by any and all means" is hostile and makes it sound like we started this mess. The way I suggested it be rewritten shows that the media conglomorates are using their power (via their deep pockets) to steal it from us and we are going to take it back."
And once again I ask, and once again no one answers. Going to the beginning, who started this mess? The pirates, or the content providers? Does anyone even remember?
...until it survives the conversion to analog and back to digital.
...) of any loopback setup will scramble any coherant protection data, not to mention the fact that most people would be recording it back into a format that either ignores or does not support DRM or copy protection.
...and I'm not talking about the bit depth, sample rate, or quantity of channels the audio is reproduced in.
Anybody with a half-decent sound card (in my case, M-Audio's Delta 1010, ~$350US), can loopback multi-channel audio from the digital domain, to the analog domain, back to the digital domain without any quality degradation, at 24bit or higher, quite conveniently.
Sure, "if I can afford a sound card like that..." you might suggest that I won't mind paying for the crap the RIAA represents. While I would never even download this crap for myself; hypothetically, I might do this for a friend, and they can then share this media unprotected, and so on and so on, and the entire concept is undermined.
In all my capacity, I cannot imagine a copy protection scheme ever surviving the leeps between digital and analog. Unless it effects the accuracy of the sound it is representing, the frequency and phase inconsistencies of the hardware involved (D/A and A/D circuits, a mixer, cabling,
Before I get carried away with explaining all of the necessary steps the industry would have to go through to squeeze this out, and how every single one could easily be circumvented at some obvious place, I'll just say two things:
- As long as the audio can be heard without being transmitted directly into the nervious system, it can be copied -- and given such technology, the ability to extract it from the memory coherently shouldn't be a far leap; and of course the obligatory notion that...
- Perhaps the industry should see the ridiculous cost of all of these measures, and instead channel them into discovering and promoting REAL music. Quality music.
-@
Your entry closed before I got to it. As someone who is completely blind, I'm going with way too hard. Are you the person responsible for this code? Can I come over and stab you in the face? No, seriously, I've gotten this all resolved through bugging pater about it, but still. If you're going to allow acceptions to your system, every robotic spammer and troll in the universe can claim blindness. Wouldn't it be smarter to create a text based system and stop creating accounts for any person or thing who claims not to be able to see the image?
See slashdotters, if people just added public email addresses in their profiles, I wouldn't be tossing off topic garbage in this thread. Go do it now if you haven't already. You can even protect it with a sane captcha solution. No, hold on...this is slashdot. Nothing that happens around here is ever sane.
tired of online ads?
Sure, you can do a search on P2P networks and find "DVDAudio" files. But guess what? They're not really. They're all files from the normal DD audio that movies use. If they actually are the high resolution layer, then it's that layer... but it has been captured analogly (or digitally at a lower resolution). This is far from ideal, and involves quality loss.
These new tools, however, allows a complete and perfect rip of the high resolution layer, which was before *completely impossible*. And yes, there are ways of playing it on your computer, quite a few soundcards support 24/192 nowadays, and if you encode these things with, say, FLAC you can tag them and play them in such players as Foobar.
More importantly for many audiophiles, is that now you are also able to output the pure, unrestricted digital stream to an external DAC, something that was previously impossible (digital outs on DVD-A players automatically downconvert the audio to a lower resolution, a similar thing is done when playing protected discs on WinDVD/other). Or, for those of us a little less fancy, and maybe DVDA-player-lacking, play the Real Deal on our computers.
Nobody who is buying DVDA discs is wanting to use them on his iPod, don't be ridiculous. In order to play this stuff on your iPod you'd have to downconvert the audio to normal CD standards, which would completely remove any point in purchasing DVDA in the first place!
Idiots! The first rule of DRM circumvention is don't talk about DRM.... ahh nevermind.
"Otherwise, the arms race will continue..."
But the arms race is fun. The short ones can really move, even though the long ones make fun of them.
Where I live, and where I used to go frequently (Asia), I've never seen "DVD-Audio". Not that I looked for it, but I usually browse shops ("both" types of shops ;) anytime I can.
I've heard about it before, but really never saw one. Did you? Does it work in standalone DVD player (I guess not)?
Obviously we need to change education practices so that people grow into smart teenagers with a health scepticism of trends and authority. Might have some good effects on the adult population too.
Unfortunately this hack doesn't remove the watermarking, so you can't make a copy to a DVD-+R disc. Is there any possibility to make a player that doesn't adhere to all the draconian measures included just to restrict how the content is used like watermarking, like there are DVD-video players that don't care about regions, Macrovision and prohibited user options (skipping commercials..)?
Quote from Ars Technica:
"The only caveat is that DVD-Audio's Verance digital watermarking, embedded in the audio signal itself, cannot be removed. The Verance watermark contains seventy-two bits of data comprising four CCI (copy control information) bits and eight usage identifier bits every fifteen seconds plus sixty content identifier bits every thirty seconds - if a DVD-Audio player detects that an embedded watermark does not match that of a specific disc (in other words if ripped DVD-Audio content is burnt to a blank DVD-R disc using an authoring program such as DiscWelder BRONZE), the machine will halt playback after thirty seconds."
Capitalization is the difference between "Helping your uncle jack off a horse" and "Helping your uncle Jack off a horse"
Now that's something i wish people whouldn't do. You are fueling the campaign for more ridicculus laws, as well as giving someone free advertizing. And for no reason to boot: You are not going to miss a song you have never heard.
FRA: STFU GTFO
I stand by my previous statement.
If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
It's reported that the RIAA's lawyers have taken action.
I got a phone call from a big local lawyer office (no fake, I checked the caller ID and the phone number really belongs to a lawyer office). They have been hired to make me stop distributing the DVD-A tools. It was a reasonably big talk, but I can summarize it with
Oh, well. It's been fun. I'm amazed at how well it spread in these two days (!), and I'm sure from now on you'll be able to find those tools in countless mirrors, p2p and the like.
Shine on!
R.
Yes, thanks to whoever managed to crack it. You are a hero!
I will have to buy more 16bit PCM plastics as there is no option to buy anything legit online in my country. (Turkey)
Also you just killed the future of DVD Audio.
Don't forget to get your check from Sony. SACD team must be partying now.
Thanks for breaking my rights to purchase 24 bit in 2005.
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