Slashdot Mirror
Your Homework is Play Video Games
GuitarNeophyte writes "Four schools in the UK will be testing a new program idea to use video games for educational use. An IT researcher, along with Electronic Arts (the software game giant) are funding the proposition. 'We're looking at developing some of the softer skills that are needed for the 21st century, such as problem-solving, resilience, persistence and collaboration.' "
They have to play EA games? Wow, I feel sorry for them.
IIRC, Doom had a lot of very graphic anatomy lessons built in.
IMO, it is vital to make homework not feel like homework in order to get children interested in their schooling again and combat their growing apathy.
I never spellcheck and I freely admit it. Save your karma for more worthwhile "lol erorrs" replies
You know - Readin', Ritin', and 'Rithmatic? After all, it worked for decades here in the USA!
If it's work, it won't bring the same satisfaction as playing a game for pleasure.
And in related news, the TEA are consulting Ouija Boards to determine the next Social Studies curriculum.
Your Homework is Play Video Games
Apparently someone skipped their English homework.
--riney
I wonder what their adult education games are like.
*moves to UK*
Note to mods: I'm probably being sarcastic.
Lemonade Stand ...
The way I see it, at least they're considering if this is a good idea, rather than going down the "games=bad" route. All of the skills they want to teach the kids, from the article, are present in games.
I'd be interested to see how this turns out, and if it's actually teacher-led "gaming", as it were, rather than "I'll sit here with a cup of tea catching up on my mountain of paperwork when you play these games and hopefully learn something".
At the very least, it's a start.
Just another harmless drunk
It's been said before that parents don't care what kind of games their kids play but rather how much time they're spending playing them.
Does this mean the next generation will procrastinate by reading Socrates and performing Fourier Transforms?
A lot of American schools have eliminated drivers ed. It would be useful for a driving simulator (not racing) that is designed to help new drivers with both normal driving (merging, heavy traffic, navigation) and emergency situations (accident avoidance, skids, bad weather, etc).
[Insert pithy quote here]
I don't get all the fuzz about problem-solving. What's so special about it? Why has it suddenly become so important? You can find it even in the synopses of some of the subjects taught in colleges: "helps improve problem-solving skills" or something similar. Except that, well, it's no use if you are a wicked awesome problem solver, but you cannot find the fucking problem as you have no experience with the thing in question.
That, of course, is just my totally uninformed opinion. Mod me flamebait if you wish.
Man is a slave because freedom is difficult, whereas slavery is easy.
Hey, what a great idea! We never needed those before, but NOW there's some serious demand for brand new skills like problem-solving.
The owls are not what they seem
Like finding l337 phucking ways around $h|77y chat filters? I'm sure these kids will be giving presentations at Black Hat in no time ;) </drippingwithsarcasm>
Perfecting Discordia
www.stevenvansickle.com
There was talk early this year (or was it last year), about the game developed by WHO, to teach young kids in the developed countries, about the plight and standard of living of people in third world countries. However, it met with the same fate as the others that I heard of in the past... the launch of such a game is covered a lot by the media, but fizzles out with no updates posted about the effectivness.
On the other hand, how does one measure the effectiveness of such an initiative?
As for this trial, one has to wonder how much of a push is it from the gaming giant to lure more children into the gaming world?
http://efil.blogspot.com/
When I was little, I had all the computer games like Operation Neptune, Super Solvers Midnight Rescue, Where in Time is Carmen Sandiego, Number Munchers, and so on. Those were totally awesome. I'd play them again if I had them. When I was even younger (like maybe 4), I had an awesome baseball game where at each at-bat, you choose a level of difficulty and they give you an appropriate arithmetic problem. You get it right, you get a hit. You get it wrong, you're out. /No point to this post, just waxing nostalgic...
Too bad they didn't parter with ID to make a Math Blaster FPS. Or maybe an American McGee's Reader Rabbit.
Right. Too bad they will be lacking in social skills and cultural values.
But then again, he did say "needed for the 21st century"...
Carol vs. Ghost
Oh, wait....
Top three reasons why I don't want EA involved in this
1) Homework will take 10 hours a night to complete, but "only during crunch time".
2) There are always other students willing to participate in the program if you don't want to
3) Students won't get extra credit, no matter HOW much homework they do
On a more serious note, I've been saying for YEARS that we need to focus on these so called "softer" skills. Current education is too hooked on what a child knows and how well they can memorize, not how able they are to figure things out. I realize that the subjects are supposed to be vehicles to teaching these "softer" skills, the problem is many teachers don't. They teach facts to be memorized ( especially at the higher levels ), not concepts to be thought about.
Mod me down with all of your hatred and your journey towards the dark side will be complete!
Make learning interesting. Teahc them young to become great game developers. That's what you ought to do. Make them passionate about it not just experiment on them as guinea pigs!
Java Oracle Linux Enthusiast
from the 3 R's to the 4 buttons. How fundamentals have evolved
rewriting history since 2109
For schools, from a maintanance and TCO point of view, game consoles often prove to be financially more viable as a technology platform than PCs or Macs, very recently studies have shown, especially with the capabilities of the next generation.
Even using older game consoles such as N64 and even SNES/SFC enables schools, particularly in rural areas, to immediately gain the benefits of technology without the cost and maintainence expense associated with traditional PC platforms.
Nintendo have done a lot of research into uses of Nintendo consoles other than gaming, such as using it as a inexpensive terminal for Internet access, or more compellingly, education, and we have done preliminary work with various Chinese governmental bodies and NGOs to make games such as Super Marx Brothers and The Legend of Deng Xiaoping to teach Chinese youth in new and engaging dynamic ways.
We look forward to seeing the results of this experiment in China, and will likely expand to other developing countries if it goes well.
-- Samir Gupta, Ph. D. Head, New Technology Research Group, Nintendo Co. Ltd., Kyoto, Japan.
We're looking at developing some of the softer skills that are needed for the 21st century, such as problem-solving, resilience, persistence and collaboration.
As well as shooting machine guns or plasma cannons while jumping 10ft in midair, jumping out of moving vehicles at 30mph to run into and fly a nearby helicopter, diffusing explosives with a pocket knife, commanding legions of foot soldiers while maintaining a productive economy, and of course... respawning.
Check out these links where people have made similar arguments:
a ndvideogames.html
6 16646.htm
t icles/computer-video-games-do-have-benefits/
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Hollow/1093/tv
http://www.siliconvalley.com/mld/siliconvalley/11
http://www.playattention.com/attention-deficit/ar
This is my opinion. To make sure you don't steal it, it's covered by the DMCA.
Is this going to take time away from human interaction, i.e. class discussions, teachers lecturing?
Problem-solving... Get into difficult-to-reach sniper spot.
Resilience... Survive long enough in difficult-to-reach sniper spot to make a difference.
Persistence... Inflict as many headshots as possible without missing.
Collaboration... Can someone get me some more sniper ammo?
There will be some web sites filled up with cheats as well.
Yay! I'd love to learn basic school skills while raiding Iraq, Germany, or Vietnam! Given that EA/Origin poopoo'd the Wing Commander projects, I'm sure the superior graphics and gameplay of UO will make total winners out of tomoorow's kids. Personally, I'd love to learn Calculus and Advanced Math by having the World of warcraft elves teach me. :D Hothothot!
"Soft" skills? "21st century"? In which human-inhabited geologic era were such talents not a near-necessity?
The project may prove valuable, but its mission seems the more commonplace one of sweetening a learning curve ...this time with the known seductions of a joystick...
Seeing bad movies only encourages them. Watch responsibly
How long before educational games are networked & have psycological analysis built in?
Geez and I always thought that TV rotten one's brain. I can't imagine what kind of zombies kids will be if they are "taught" by EA's shitty products. Yikes!! I think I would rather be on heavy doses of Ritalin than have to play Madden for hours on end. EA should rot in hell.
Some work just can't be fun.
You are a product of the industrialized education system. So am I. We were taught that work wasn't fun, it was work. And it wasn't something we had a choice in, regardless.
My daughter *loves* school. She loves the work, and looking it over, so would I ( and would have, at her age. ).
When I was in 2nd grade, my math homework ( for example ) was a sheet of numbers and operators. She brings home these little booklets that have word problems, stories, with numbers. Both accomplish the same thing, but hers also teaches problem solving ( figuring out which numbers go where in the equation ) AND she enjoys it because it's a story.
I won't even get into the science. They do some awsome things with science now.
History, for some reason, they still teach like they did when I was in school. On this date, this happened. On this date, this happened. And then they test you on the dates. idiotic.
My overall point being, we were taught by our schools not to have fun while doing work. Now a days, teachers have better tools at their disposal, and kids are actually learning to have fun while working.
Now if we could only get the parents to show some interest in their child's education and get the ID people to drop it. A scary world where a teacher feels too threatened to teach science theory because of religous nuts.
Mod me down with all of your hatred and your journey towards the dark side will be complete!
Think of the boom in eyeglass salses - all those kids retina's trashed from video games AND homework.
---- "Logoff! That cookie shit makes me nervous!" - A. Soprano
Sorry mom, I'm doing my homework.
But you've been doing it for 6 hours now, it's almost time for bed.
Yeah yeah yeah ma, I gotta study for this test tomorrow. If I can't successfully beat the 4th level in 10 minutes, I have to repeat the 5th grade. You dodn't want THAT do ya?
Time is comparison of movement to other movement.
'Readin, 'Writin, 'Rithmatic...
You forgot 'Ritalin...
I knew I should have gone down to the patent office instantly!
My idea was to hand out copies of Diablo to the kids (possibly over the summer) and then give them all copies of Jarulf's Guide and set question such as what the probability of finding a specific unique item in one complete single player game, from a unique monster is. Requiring maths skills and the ability to locate and use the information given in the guide
FGD 135
by Mister "The Yellow Dart" Llah
Since maybe like the Middle Ages, there have been many differing opinions about hustle and bustle. This cannot be denied. It is my intention to sit down and play video games for several hours.
MoM++ - A Classic Expanded - [Master of Magic 1.5]
http://mompp.sourceforge.net/
I've got the "Educational" version of SimCity here. The pack contains the DOS software (I didn't say it was recent), schemes of work and photocopiable assignment worksheets. Its all good stuff!
Most of the SIMxxx stuff was amenable to this approach, The value of the current trial would all depend on the games selected!
We had many games that are "educational" the suprising thing though is these were well built games, and I believe the best ones came out of EGA (if I remember that company right) and EA. Carmen Sandiago anyone? I particularly liked the Super Solver series for their logic problems.
If EA is making games for children that'd be great, but Video games for homework only works when we deal with games for learning. Madden isn't going to teach anyone that much except hand and eye coordination and how not to get your QB completely sacked (then again I have yet to learn that).
All I hope is that they are as interesting and entertaining as the games in my youth, such as the typing games that had a car moving and the faster you typed the faster you went. Those games were entertaining to me, and kept my attention and taught me some spelling (though not that much) and typing.
"Johnny1337, that's a wallhack! You're to sit over in that corner, by the crates. Johnny, put that sniper rifle DOWN!" ...
...
/kick
"No, evilgrrl, that's spelled "dudes". There is no "z" in "dudes". How will you ever write for IGN if you can't spell correctly?"
Look, BillyBadAzz, I know the pirates came and stole your isk. You need to tell them that that's wrong, and not let them do that to you. And Billy... Billy, that's a BAD WORD in your name. You change that right now!
People coming out of the 1920's education system were far smarter than what the system is producing now. They could actually read, write, and perform mathematics. Imagine that! Today you'll find many university-level students who struggle with such basic tasks.
The strict discipline of the early 20th century gave children only one choice: to learn! And so they did.
Cyric Zndovzny at your service.
In Soviet Russia, your homework plays YOU!
This is nothing new, until the Windows platform completely wiped out the homegrown competition, we always had educational games in schools in the UK. Companies like Sherston, 4Mation and others released loads of 'games' for schools. Googling about now, I've found a few of the old-skool education games still knocking aroung (for example Granny's Garden), and some others that never seem to have made the jump from the 8 bit days (like Suburban Fox).
Some of the games that were created back in the 90s were very closely tied in with specific National Curiculum targets, and still manages to be quite fun to play - albeit made on quite a small budget, with the sort of money that EA has to throw at production, these new generation of education games could be really good.
http://gvr.sourceforge.net/ is an interesting concept to build upon.
"But Mooooommmmmm...I don't want any hot coffee right now..."
I'll turn into a supernova and burn up everything. Well I'll turn into a black little hole and you'll turn into string.
If they let these children play games, they should also make sure they keep them away from the GameFAQs.com forums. Frankly, I think such forums are destroying the minds of youth all over the world.
My grandson pointed out to me the horrible grammar and spelling of most young people there. He has decent communication skills, and he found it very funny how poorly some of the fools there wrote. GameFAQs is anti-education: it makes young people stupider.
Cyric Zndovzny at your service.
Depending on how it's implemented, I see no reason why games can't be developed that either (A) require a printout when a student completes a level/course to prove that it was done or (B) reports back to central repository so that the teacher can determine if the work was done.
:)
So, for example, a student plays a game that deals with the multiplication tables. The game is entertaining and informative at the same time, so the kid enjoys playing it. Once the "work" level has been "won", out goes a signal (or a report) stating that little Johnny has completed the work. The teacher has proof that the game was played and little Johnny had fun with it to the point that he looks forward to the next assignment. I don't see this as being difficult to achieve, nor to I believe that this is something that is unattainable as TFA suggests.
Obviously, there are technical issues with this (being cynical geeks we can always find flaws), but I don't see any reason why this could not be done to the point that video games, classwork, homework, and education are synonymous.
So, let's see. A boring book or a complete multimedia experience. Gee, which one do you think the kids will want more? Apparently, the cynics here have not heard of the still-popular Reader Rabbit series.
And give Taco some slack. After years of having to deal with "All Your Base Are Belong To Us" derivative posts on Slashdot, it was only a matter of time before that type of fractured grammar became a part of the Slashdot mentality.
The Overrated mod is for reversing inappropriate, positive mods, not for voicing disagreement with a post.
They should go to Konami for games they could use in gym class. Last time I checked, Dance Dance Revolution is one helluva addicting, and sweat inducing game even when you are not in workout mode.
If you believe in privacy, and believe you have "nothing to hide" at the same time, you're a goddammed idiot
Computer games giant Electronic Arts and education IT researcher NESTA Futurelab, are to conduct trials to see how computer games can be used as educational tools in schools.
Sales Rep: Sir! We have a problem, no one is buying our shitty games!
CEO: Hmmmm.... is it because 25 of our last 26 games have been sequals?
Sales Rep: That's part of the problem, sir, but all of our games contain a copious amount of um, shit.
CEO: Interesting. We need a new market approach.
Sales Rep: Sir?
CEO: We sell our games to schools, and say they our educational!
Sales Rep: Brialliant!
CEO: We have to make sure they buy our utter crap too, so let's say "all our genres have something to offer"...
Sales Rep: Oh Sir, the school districts will love it! I'll get the board on the phone right away. Hello Add'em '06!
just hire some kids to be bullies to pick on the kids every day. Either that, or disable "God mode" in Doom.
Except for ending slavery, the Nazis, communism, & securing American independence, war has never solved anything.
You know, I learn't all these when I was young too. The difference being that I did it in a group of people which meant that I also learn't how to listen properly, empathise with others, social skills, a sense of achievement and made a few friends to boot.
Seriously, I know computer games aren't soley single player these days, but I can't help thinking that there are far better and cheaper ways to teach all this and more and also don't help further a corporations goals (EA doing this out of the goodness of their hearts? I think not) without going near a computer.
Avantslash - View Slashdot cleanly on your mobile phone.
to now, with sites giving cliff notes and sometimes entire written reports?
I remember a survey that was a done a few years ago found that somewhere around 60% of American students admitted to having cheated at some point. I don't see how this could be worse, as most game cheats are easily detectable, certainly more so than detecting a duplicate essay.
I never spellcheck and I freely admit it. Save your karma for more worthwhile "lol erorrs" replies
I have 3 kids at school in the UK, I went to school here myself, my father worked in an FE college and both his parents were school teachers. From what I know of the education system here this sounds like a terrible idea.
Schools here in the UK have changed a lot in the past few decades. In recent years the politicians have been trying the same privatisation-by-stealth tactics they are using on the health service, this sounds like the latest. I don't think what we are seeing here is a leap forward in computer aided learning, more like the latest way to give taxpayers money to some corporation.
More worrying is the quality of education my kids seem to be getting. #2 daughter would like to learn latin, but it's not taught. At least she could take a qualification in "consumer and lifestyle studies" if she wants.
Fortunately for my wife and I, my daughter has always been a bit of a bookworm and has loved to learn new things, and has picked them up rather quickly. I think it's her insatiable desire to keep learning that makes these games fun for her, the same as it makes actual reading, puzzles and math type written exercises fun for her... on the other hand had she not exhibited these sort of qualities naturally or through our prodding, I'm not entirely convinced that these sort of electronic games would hold any sort of interest for her any more than the old manual style of learning would.
Unfortunately I think this is just EA capitalizing on yet another market they can tramatize their employees with and fatten the pockets of their execs with... Natural curiousity and good parenting will never be trumped by the newest educational tech gadget...
Don't anthropomorphize computers: they hate that.
You are in a 21st Centurty school, your teachers are underpaid, the facilities are obsolete, your fellow students are apathetic. It is dark. There is a computer in front of you.
>>turn on computer
The computer is on.
>>play educational game
You are distracted by the bright colors and cool sound effects. You are supposedly learning problem-solving, resilience, persistence and collaboration; skills for which there is no test to measure your progress. You graduate.
>>get job
Your attempt to get a job fails. It is dark.
>>get job
Your attempt to get a job succeeds! You are now a fry cook at McDonalds.
>>get better job
Your attempt to get a better job fails. Your education never prepared you with either the intellectual tools or actual knowledge to succeed. You have no health care, you don't vote, and your kids will turn out even worse than you. Oh, and you've been eaten by a grue.
Your dead
I am a Junior in the American public high school system, and I can tell you that I would prefer the page with the numbers and operators. I always have loved the logics part of school, and I don't mind the fact that I have to memorize facts/formulas. As a programmer, I find myself doing just that more and more (with syntaxes and routines).
I would also like to point out that school is NOT a playground! School was not meant to be fun, it was meant to be place of learning. I for one would probably not play the game beyond the required parts, I would spend too much time trying to figure out how to modify it to suit my own educational and philosophical endeavors.
As I recall, this has been done already... when I was in kindergarten (circa 1993), we had two or three old Apple IIe computers in the classroom and we were on a scheduled rotation so that every week or so every kid would get a chance to play with it for a period of time. As educational games were the only ones available (at least to us), we were learning while we played. I loved playing and always looked forward to it. Number Munchers and Word Munchers were excellent games (among many others) and I still pull out the ol' IIe from time to time to revisit some old games that were truly educational. (This is not to say my education hasn't advanced since Kindergarten, but my future children will definitely be playing some of those same games if they still work by then)
This sig left blank for page turns.
'We're looking at developing some of the softer skills that are needed for the 21st century, such as problem-solving, resilience, persistence and collaboration.'
And, in the back of the package, in small print: Social skills not included.
Reminds me of my homework at the university, which I had at the beginning of this semester. It was to watch animated movies (ie Toy Story etc). Ok, the course was on computer graphics and animation, but anyway...
I have a really elegant proof for Fermat's last theorem. If this sig was only a bit longer...
Alright class, your homework for this weekend is to finish Squaresoft's Final Math Fantasy. It's an 80+ hour game with plenty of repetitious "math battles" and I want your Memory Card (8MB) (for Playstation 2) on my desk Monday morning.
We had this sort of thing in my time. We called it edutainment and it wasn't that popular then either.
Grand Theft Auto: Mathmagic Land
If you don't know where you are going, you will wind up somewhere else.
These skills can also be acquired through athletics, or the physical and artistic discipline of dance. Which might help us stop raising generations of overweight kids who grow into chronically obese adults, in sedentary jobs with all the attendant health problems (mental and physical), who are barely aware that they have bodies, much less how to use or take care of them.
PyGame is just what I was looking for. I have an 11 year old that is looking to make video games on his laptop (an old Pentium 120 that a client of mine gave me).
I started him on Q Basic such that he could start to think logically, understand subroutines and variables and the other basics. I was going to have him move to Java next, but I knew that it would be difficult for him to do much graphically. This looks like something that might just fit the bill.
Other suggestions from other /. parents are welcome
More of my thoughts
What happens when these kids get out into the workforce and their boss expects them to do the job even when they aren't being entertained and stimulated.
Are we going to have to turn every job into a video game in order to keep the workforce of the future working?
Some of what I say is fact, some is conjecture, the rest I'm just blowing out my ass...you guess.
In China, roads are diverted, sirens are disabled and policemen patrol the roads outside of institutions to ensure that sixteen-year-olds can take their secondary examinations in peace, without interruptions.
In Britain, we are given weekly cash to stay on after GCSE, and some of the more chavvy students have to be bribed with iPods to take their GCSEs in the first place!
And now, Americans want to bring in video games to help keep their mentally subnormal children entertained while homeworking! We learn best with teachers who are quietly authoritative, who can keep everyone quiet but not bored. Return to the thirties' public schools, I say.
Alge-Blaster?
The bits on the bus go on and off... on and off... on and off...
Video games have been my homework for years, sure they had all that other stuff but it doesn't teach the essential skills in life. Where else can you learn: 1.) To reach high ledges you must simply jump twice, once on the ground and another time once you're in the air. 2.) Money can be accumulated not only through real world earnings and jobs, but also by defeating the many monsters who ravage the forests and tall grass of our world. 3.) If you are lacking in strength, speed, or endurance, there is always a shirt, pair of pants, and/or pair of boots that can remedy this situation. 4.) The ninja profession has become one of the most competative job markets available out there, only the strong, quick, and intelligent will survive (see above if your lacking in some of these necessary skills).
I declare beforehand that I live in Italy, not USA, so the situation might be a little different.
My daughter *loves* school. She loves the work, and looking it over, so would I ( and would have, at her age. ). [...]
I agree to each word from the parent msg, and I don't think that the fact that the children do should learn to apply and commit, since life's not so easy after all, has really nothing to detract from the reasonableness of try to raise them to love knowledge and skill-building, and have fun with them. On the contrary: to love what you do (or at least to love what you are able to love in what you do), can be a great advantage in confronting the uneasy situations of life.
On the other hand, I am absolutely astonished by the number of posts advocating children beating. Maybe I'm just a bohémien European or whatever, but I had the impression that
With regard to that, where I think the grandparent has a point is:
Children nowadays are given more and more freedom and less and less resonsponsibilites.
Well, my understanding is that children should be given freedom and responsibilities; and this is more important that even knowledge and skills, since I think that we do should try to raise our children as competent engineers, doctors and whatever, but even before and more important, we should try to raise them as citizens, or in the end they will be no more than labourers and consumers.
To be a citizen, love for freedom and will to take responsibilities are both fundamental; but what's the point of will to take responsibilities without love for freedom? To make the perfect slave? No, thank you, not my sons.
I want my sons to be responsible independent free thinkers, even to question my authority, to demand me reasons for, when they feels to.
I do prefer to risk and raise a rebel than to risk and raise a slave.
I would also like to point out that school is NOT a playground
Hence the problem. For me, school wasn't exciting, it wasn't interesting. It was a place to go during the day that I didn't want to go.
School should be a fun, exciting and interesting place to be. For the love of Dogs ( I'm dyslexic ), it's a place to learn! What can be more exciting than that?
Mod me down with all of your hatred and your journey towards the dark side will be complete!
Because exactly what we need is ways to make our children use the computer for more hours a day. How about better social interraction.
I have to point out that this has been a problem for time immemorial. Every generation feels like things are horrible now and there was reasonable discipline and order in the past. The following observation was made more than 2 millenia ago, which tends to suggest that generations of kids don't really change all that much over time (and neither do grown ups):
Children today are tyrants. They contradict their parents, gobble their food, and tyrannize their teachers.
- Socrates
There is actually some solid and serious research behind this initiative, and other similar projects that are pushing the traditional boundaries of education. I've commented on it here, with links to the research, theory and project pages.
The historical fact is that our current educational system is only about 350 years old, give or take a decade. Prior to that, what was considered knowledge, appropriate pedagogy, and educational techniques were considerably different, and different still compared to the same items in ancient Greece. With the fundamental changes that are occuring in many aspects of our contemporary societies, radical new approaches to education are not only to be expected, but are to be welcomed.
Besides, has anyone considered the idea that the current dysfunction among modern corporations, and the plethora of McJobs may be a direct outcome of a now obsolescent educational system - one that served the industrial age well, but is sadly outdated today?
i dont know how it happened, or exactly when...but at some point it became cool to be as stupid as possible. We are not talking basic geek and jock crap...we are talking about kids really believeing they are cool amungst thier peers, for knowing as little as possible about anything & everything. Its sickening. I long for the days when an ignorant rebelious teen, still tried to stay in school and graduate with some "edjumakation". We are supposed to be rearing our children, preparing them for adulthood, not catering to their every want & desire. Parents are affraid to be parents these days. Here's a hint: if ur kid back talks you, yells at you, disobeys you; here is what you do: BEAT THE LIVING TAR OUT OF THEM. My mother carried a wooden spoon in her purse everywhere we went (even church) till i was about 7 or 8 years old. When i hit my teens i pretty much had figured out who was in charge. Love your children. Teach your children. But dont idolize them. Here's what I mean: this running trend now that every ones a winner, everyone gets a ribbon, there are no losers, all about saving face for your child...its all a crock of sh*t!! In life there are hardships, sometimes you lose, some times life hurts. Dont coddle your children, because you are f*ckin up their heads.
Don't ya hate it when the correct spelling of your favorite screen name is taken?
"My dog unplugged the controller"
"My little brother kept TKing me"
"Power was out"
"My dad put a virus on my comp"
"This game gives me seizures"
"I'll never use this in the real world"
D6 63 0D 70 89 81 BB 8E 7B 7C 5F 5D 54 EA AB 73
That may be... however I know of a lot of kids where they say "oh, he just won't do his homework." It's usually the parents who are at fault. One extreme example is from one of those Nanny 911 type shows: the kids won't eat dinner, but they have unfettered access to a snacks closet. Hello?
Maybe it's just that the few of us who had decent parents are looking around at the rest of the world and saying "these kids today." No idea.
It's a joke, laugh.
Sure, the purpose of schoolwork is education, not entertainment. The two, however, are neither opposites nor inherently incompatible: Many people theorise that if learning does not entertain the student in any way, he or she will lose interest in the subject being taught and learn less efficiently. A simple demonstration of this is that people tend to perform worse in subjects they find uninteresting or boring.
While I enjoy the stringently logical fields of study as well, throughout my entire education I've personally loathed the equivalents of "those pages with numbers and operators". To me, they appeared to be mindless and horribly repetetive exercises that served no real educational purpose. Worse: being very time-intensive because of the sheer mass of calculations students were asked to do, they took away time that could have been spent focusing on more interesting aspects of, e.g., mathematics.
That said, most attempts at making school "fun" fail miserably and end up having little entertainment value and little educational value. Furthermore, a video game can't tailor the level and focus of the education to the individual student like a good teacher can, no matter what the sticker on the box says, so I'm generally skeptical of spending time on such "automated education".
It's just important not to fall into the trap of thinking that because school wasn't meant to be fun, school can't be, or shouldn't be, fun - those are reactionary ideas that are hard to justify.
Since everyone who already plays computer games knows that EA are slave drivers, they are trying to generate a new group that don't know that?
Increasingly, Computer Game Playing (or, rather, Computer manipulation) is becoming a skill of some importance. For example, there was a recent article in the Washington Post about Coal Mining in Virginia:
c le/2005/08/14/AR2005081401174.html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/arti
So this might well be A Good Thing(tm), as it brings a fresh infusion of programming talent into the educational software arena, but it's not exactly shocking news.
Wow, I didn't know that problem-solving, resilience, persistence and collaboration were skills we didn't need in the 20th Century.
Aside from the fact that EA is involved, and most modern games probably aren't the way to go, what is wrong with this idea?
I think that most rational people agree with the claim that learning something using fun method A is better than learning the same thing with boring method B. If all else is equal, then absolutely, use method A, having fun while learning is much more likely to lead to positive results.
So the root assumption I'm getting from most posts today is, in fact, nothing useful can be learned from fun video games, and they bring a host of bad lessons. Is the problem of creating a fun game (hard) that also teaches a valuable lesson (moral / arithmetical / logical / etc.) (hard) a completely intractable problem? I don't think it is.
So if it is likely possible to make fun games that will benefit today's kids, why is that inherently a bad idea?
Don't get me wrong, I can easily see where the idea could be made to go wrong (and many have pointed out some of the pitfalls). But overall, if this idea was well executed, I think it has great potential.
In Soviet Russia, us are belong to all your base.
Back in Russia in early 1990's we had just got a new classroom with IBM computers. The computer science (we called it 'informatics') teacher let us play Sokoban and Lemmings for a grade. It was really fun, made you think logically, and gave the teacher time to go out and run errands and take smoke breaks. A win-win situation if you ask me ;)
Aw man, can't I just upload it using my Sony Network Adapter (Ethernet/Modem) (for PlayStation® 2)? I'm running out of space on my Sony Memory Card (8MB) (for PlayStation® 2).
For more information, click here.
I've been quite involved in games in education. I am an elementary school computer teacher, and use a variety of COTS games to support learning in my school. Here's the address to my blog where I've discussed this stuff:
k
http://www.mackenty.org/index.php/learn/games_wor
The key is, of course, not to stick a kid in front of a computer game for an hour, and hope for a miracle. It won't happen.
In order for games to work in education we need active engagement, kids need to think about what they are doing. This requires a more sophisticated approach to teaching than the old "drill and kill". It also requires assessment that isn't a state-sponsored "fill in the oval" test.
I've written about this very thing, and I use several games in my classroom. There is fantastic potential for games in education.
It really works. I learned my first English installing, executing, and playing the original Leisure Suit Larry games.
For example I now know to take the cab to the Convenience Store and ask for a condom (the word lubber worked too) before fucking a prostitute.
that EA is sponsoring this?
Of course, EA is well known for it's educational games. Sounds more like Pepsi sponsoring drink vending machines in schools to me...
And what happens when they internalize this lesson, and then generalize the idea as they grow up? In twenty years, you have a large, human-looking animal.
Pain is the quickest and easiest solution for a parent, but it is not the most effective (i.e., long-lasting) training option. In order of efficacy (from memory, so correct with a cited source if I'm wrong), the best training methods are:
Positive Reinforcement:
Giving subject something they like after exhibiting desired behavior (e.g., candy bar)
Positive Punishment:
Giving subject something they don't like after exhibiting behavior to be extinguished (e.g., sharp smack to rump)
Negative Punishment:
Taking away something disliked by subject after exhibiting desired behavior (e.g., extend curfew for good grades)
Negative Reinforcement:
Inverse of the above (e.g., grounding)
They tried this at a district in the Pittsburgh area. They got a grant to use the students as rats, and gave every student in the test grade a PS1 (Before the PS2 came out) and the in school ciriculum was designed around the educational games provided with it. The program was an absolute failure. Now the school district has several thousand PS1s in nice leather cases sitting in various bins throughout the basements of the schools. The kids mostly took them home and then just rented/bought games for them. The district is now holding onto them waiting for them to be completly worthless before they put them up for auction.
(Score:0, Interesting)
Your attempt to get a job succeeds! You are now a fry cook at McDonalds. ....Oh, and you've been eaten by a grue.
The real irony here is the grue had already eaten someone else and would have passed the poor player by, except he smelled irresistably of fries and the grue just could not resist a bite or two.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Somehow, I forsee a decrease in computer games popularity. But I guess EA didn't think of that.
What will the kids of the future tell you when you ask them about games?
"Games? Oh yeah, I hate them. We have them for homework."
Typing of the Dead blends horror with a typing tutorial for an original gaming experience. There are several game modes to help you become a terrific typist. Drill mode focuses on different skills, such as typing speed, accuracy, reflex, and special keystrokes. In the boss mode, your battle against each boss emphasizes a different skill, from quick reading and answering to story reading and typing. Two-player modes include cooperative and competitive.
This game was the reason I bought 2 keyboards for my Dreamcast. My kids will play this before Mavis Beacon Typing.
Science is the Real TRUTH!
But I agree with the rest of your post wholeheartedly. :-)
-Rob
Biblical fiscal responsibility
Okay, so I'll be first to admit I havn't read TFA - but I didn't want to either; I lost interest as soon as I read 'new program idea to use video games for educational use'.
I remmember playing educational games on the old Amiga's and such when I was a kid, in fact, if I recall correctly, a heck of a lot of the games back then had some sort of educational value to them. I don't know how much they taught me, but my interest in them could well have led me on the path to becomming a programmer.
The days of Number Munchers, Math Shop, Writer Rabbit and CrossCountry USA (sp?) were a golden age. I played all of those and more in elementary school, and I feel they made me better at computing (and math, and reading, and geography) than most around me.
I deeply miss those games. Windows is a good gaming platform now, but the Apple ][e was teh pwn at that stuff back then.
You can hold down the "B" button for continuous firing.
a teacher feels too threatened to teach arguments and counterarguments for intelligent design because of anti-creationist nuts?
You misspelled 'scientists.'
"problem-solving, resilience, persistence and collaboration.' ".... hey, Zork! or.. a MUD?
Early bird may get the worm.. but the second mouse gets the cheese.
Hello 1985. We want our Carmen Sandiego and Supermunchers back.
-l
p.s., We were using those for learning in our elementary school circa 1987. Supermunchers ruled. I have a floppy image of both I load up in Dosemu every now and then. Good times.
Help cure AIDS, cancer, and more. Donate your unused computer time to worldcommunitygrid.org. Join Team Slashdot!
Oh yeah, I'm sure in Socrates' day the kids were bringing a gun to school & blowing their classmates/teachers away because they just didn't like doing homework/were being bullied. I'm sure that kids in Socrates' day were doing drugs and sniffing glue. And what about the whole vandalism? Did Roman kids write 'Romanes eunt dommum' on the walls? (outside of 'The Life of Brian') Get real. The world is on a downward spiral, and only a firm hand with the kids is going to settle it. And no, I'm not going to AC. Flamebait or not, it needs to be said.
Sigs are for wimps
Conversely, would you think it was a scary world when a teacher feels too threatened to teach arguments and counterarguments for intelligent design because of anti-creationist nuts?
As long as they don't teach it as a science, I have no problems with it being taught in school. Evolution is science, ID is a belief.
Mod me down with all of your hatred and your journey towards the dark side will be complete!
There's some in this 4Mb Powerpoint presentation: http://www.bris.ac.uk/education/research/networks/ gern/gdc05.ppt
A few more in my lickle blog of examples: http://silversprite.blogspot.com/
The "games in education" research sector has generally moved on from the question of "Can games be of use in curriculum-based learning?" (answer: yes - look at the examples), and is looking more at "Which games?", "How?", and "What support do educators need to make the best use of them?". The EA / FutureLab linkup will be looking at these three.