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U.S. Army To Ramp Up Anthrax Purchasing
An anonymous reader writes "New Scientist reports that the U.S. Army wants to purchase a large supply of an anthrax strain." From the article: "A series of contracts have been uncovered that relate to the US army's Dugway Proving Ground in Utah. They ask companies to tender for the production of bulk quantities of a non-virulent strain of anthrax, and for equipment to produce significant volumes of other biological agents ... Although the Sterne strain is not thought to be harmful to humans and is used for vaccination, the contracts have caused major concern. 'It raises a serious question over how the US is going to demonstrate its compliance with obligations under the Biological Weapons Convention if it brings these tanks online,'"
how did the US know Saddam had those WMDs?
They have the receipt
all you are, is all you are, i'm so sorry for you.
FYI: the Biological and Toxin Weapons Convention has a website.
that the US of A don't like playing by the rules they so violently impose on the rest of the world...
It's not going to be used for weaponry, and the US has enough nuclear firepower to not need biological weaponry, which are much more unpredictable in effect, and less reliable.
Bad journalism, coming straight from NewScientist.
We've upped our standards. Up yours.
The fact that Anthrax got loose in Washington, and the way the investigation was stonewalled seems to indicate that the US has not been adhering very stringently to the spirit of any convention. On the other hand testing your weapons on your own population does not infringe on any treaty AFAIK.
This is not a signature.
I know surprisingly little about America. I know nothing about its background or origin. I do not know when America was created or what it has done besides revive an arcadian past that never existed. Nevertheless, I can tell you all that you need to know about it. The first thing I want to bring up is that its Ponzi schemes may have been conceived in idealism, but they quickly degenerated into pestilential larrikinism. So, why doesn't America reveal the truth about itself? I guess it just boils down to the question: Do pouty chiselers like America's goons actually have lives, or do they exist solely to put subhuman, featherbrained common blood-stained criminals on the federal payroll? Well, I asked the question, so I should answer it. Let me start by saying that America's belief systems will have consequences -- very serious consequences. And we ought to begin doing something about that. America somehow manages to maintain a straight face when saying that a totalitarian dictatorship is the best form of government we could possibly have. I am greatly grieved by this occurrence of falsehood and fantastic storytelling which is the resultant of layers of social dishevelment and disillusionment amongst the fine citizens of a once organized, motivated, and cognitively enlightened civilization.
Part of the myth that America perpetuates is that governments should have the right to lie to their own subjects or to other governments. At the risk of sounding a tad redundant, let me add that if it can't stand the heat, it should get out of the kitchen. And what of it? America claims that it is a model organization. That claim is preposterous and, to use America's own language, overtly homicidal. No history can justify it. If you think about it you'll see that America's misguided, revolting cock-and-bull stories are merely a distraction. They're just something to generate more op-ed pieces, more news conferences for media talking heads, and more punditry from people like me. Meanwhile, America's forces are continuing their quiet work of advancing America's real goal, which is to generate alienation and withdrawal. It is common knowledge that a great many of us don't want America to dilute the nation's sense of common purpose and shared sacrifice. But we feel a prodigious societal pressure to smile, to be nice, and not to object to its disingenuous grievances.
If I were to compile a list of America's forays into espionage, sabotage, and subversion, it would fill an entire page and perhaps even run over onto the following one. Such a list would surely make every sane person who has passed the age of six realize that if America bites me, I will unequivocally bite back. A colleague recently informed me that a bunch of birdbrained, brutal astrologers and others in America's amen corner are about to contaminate or cut off our cities' water supply. I have no reason to doubt that story because I admit I have a tendency to become a bit insensitive whenever I rebuke America for trying to replace discourse and open dialogue with crude perorations and blatant ugliness. While I am desirous of mending this tiny personality flaw, my dream is for tired eyes to open and see clearly, broken spirits to find new energy, and weary arms to find the strength to provide you with a holistic and thematic history of America's wanton, immature theatrics. Lest you think that I'm talking out of my hat here, I should point out that America was voted "most likely to prey on people's fear of political and economic instability" by its peers. America's trained seals probably don't realize that, because it's not mentioned in the funny papers or in the movies. Nevertheless, no one has a higher opinion of it than I, and I think it's a maladroit buffoon.
Given the tenor of our times, if I had to choose the most empty-headed specimen from America's welter of flighty gabble, it would have to be America's claim that its objectives won't be used for political retribution. America insists that the majority of prissy nudniks are heroes, if not saints. In the
...Boss? is Anthrax bad?
As always, who can police the police.
"The whole argument just smacks of fearmongering, and throws the word anthrax around as much as possible."
As this is about anthrax, I have a hard time seeing how they could have avoided using this word.
"They're not creating a biological weapons lab, just procuring enough to probably use for threat assessment of biological weapon dispersion."
First off, nobody claimed they wanted to build biological weapons with this stuff, so your whole point simply amounts to a strawman arument.
Second, it is amazing that you do seem to know exactly what they want to use this stuff for, as this is certainly not public knowledgd. Now I agree with you that this is probably what they want to do, however, I have no way of veryfing this.
"It's not going to be used for weaponry, and the US has enough nuclear firepower to not need biological weaponry, which are much more unpredictable in effect, and less reliable."
Again, stop the strawman arguments, nobody claimed they were going to use it for weapons.
As the article clearly states, the problem is that this equipment could be used to make weapons or at least produce anthrax strains that could be used in weapons. This isn't so much a problem because people think the US will do this, but because the US has signed international treaties that might be in conflict with what the US military is doing.
And even if it is not breaking these agreements, I'm sure you will agree that the signal it sends to other nations, namely that it is possible to aquire this kind of equipment if you only tell everyone that you are not going to do anything evil with it, is troublesome.
After all - the army lost a lot of anthrax four years ago.
Gotta replace it - never know when it'll come in handy!
My pics.
I guess, while non-lethal, it might keep the immune system of 'insurgents' busy.. Ever tried to operate a rocket launcher shortly after getting vaccinated?
--
Smash hit ball matching game for mac & pc: Atlantis
http://www.funpause.com/
Only in Soviet Russia.
Please don't comment while drunk.
Or stoned.
Or on whatever it is you're on.
since it's illegal to use and illegal to make, we just BUY it from someone else that we make magically exempt from this law-- ya know, cuz we can.
what do they plan to do with it? "research" ? like, perhaps, how much quicker will it kill you if we inject it into your eyeballs than if, say, we light you on fire?
buying anthrax means that it's being made somewhere. if it's here in the US, then that plant could be a target for attack, allowing terrorists to spread large amounts of a very prrolific and highly contageous disease. if it isn't in the US, then it may be more prone to sabotage or theft.
either way, we all get to be terrified of our mail again. oh, happy day.
hey while you're at it, make some more nuclear weopons, and just for kicks, see how many diseases you can weoponize. ya know. cuz it's illegal-- but don't that won't eb a problem. if your company is friends with me and my daddy, you won't ever have to worry about the law. because if anyone, like, oh, i dunno, the seante or conngress have some sort of judiciary council demanding to know what's going on, you can do what donald rumsfeld did when they confronted him: tell them they can go fuck themselves. instead of imprisoning him for contempt and compelling him to disclose the information they were demanding.
but, like anyone connected to the bush regime, when rumsfeld told them to go fuck themselves, they pretty much said, "oh, well, ok. we'll just do that then. thanks so much for your time!"
congress: "carl rove! outing a cia operative is treason! how could you?"
rove: "despite the fact that this very verifiable truth is the center of all attention and is beign discussed in every facet of modern media, uh, it's not true. i didn't really do that. i was just kidding. it was someone else."
congress: "oh, well ok then. even though we know you did it, and you should be hanged for high treason, we'll let ya go. cuz ya know... your friends with the bushes. and the whole world knows that law don't apply to rich people. especially the bushes."
every time government officials publicly get away with what could be called treason (or simply IS treason), we are the ones who get fucked. not even trying them in court or even acknowledging their crimes means that the next time, no one will even notice. at that point, what lawa or order is there?
Iraq, North Korea, Iran, etc... all of them are demonised for even thinking about developing nuclear, chemical and biological weapons. There's outrage if they hint that it's okay to have them.
On the other hand, the USA, which is the only country to ever use nuclear bombs against another country (civilians, no less), who has invaded two countries in the past few years, who is the only western nation to not ratify the treaty that agrees not to send kids into battle, who don't believe their prisoners of war should have the protections of the Geneva conventions, is actively buying and developing these kinds of weapons.
Once you stop thinking of the USA as "us, the good guys", and everyone else as "them, the bad guys", and look at things objectively, the USA's record is incredibly poor. Perhaps then you will see why the rest of the world fears the USA.
Anybody got information on how to emigrate to Canada, eh?
Please, stop attacking him.
"What would happen to the Biological Weapons Convention if other countries followed suit and built large biological production facilities at secretive military bases known for weapons testing?"
How does this translate to: The US wants to build biological weapons with this stuff?
Oh, it doesn't...
"It's not just that they *aren't* going to do anything evil with it, but rather, can't. If you read the article, you can see that it's both non-infectious, and can be used for vaccination. Being concerned when someone buys a gun is understandable. Being concerned when they buy an airsoft is much less so."
On the issue of RTFA:
1. It's funny that you on one hand claim that the article claims that US wants to build weapons with it, on the other you tell others to read the article, as it showed that this stuff can't be used for weapons production.
2. From TFA:
"It raises a serious question over how the US is going to demonstrate its compliance with obligations under the Biological Weapons Convention if it brings these tanks online," says Alan Pearson, programme director for biological and chemical weapons at the Center for Arms Control and Non-Proliferation in Washington DC. "If one can grow the Sterne strain in these units, one could also grow the Ames strain, which is quite lethal."
the contracts have caused major concern. 'It raises a serious question over how the US is going to demonstrate its compliance with obligations under the Biological Weapons Convention...
(emphasis mine) and since I like quotes:
Did IQ's just drop suddenly while I was away?
Sometimes at night I imagine the darkness is filled with horrible things with too many teeth, like Julia Roberts.
They could just want all that anthrax strain, which is used for vaccinations, to do just that. Vaccinate all the armed forces people first and then the whole of the US population. It is realistically possible that for just once this is on the straight. Now, as my previous postings show, I'm not Uncle Sam's lover, but don't ascribe to malice ...
how much screwed this country became.
What the DoD is doing here is making some anthrax vaccine, because we're out. We used a lot of it with our second Iraq deployment, and the fear is very real that someone will use an anthrax weapon in a terrorist attack. The army wants to get some vaccine, and start making their own so they aren't reliant on outside contractors to produce it. It's always been a weak point in our policy I think to rely upon civilan companies to produce vaccines for biological agents (and checmical for that matter).
A crop duster full of anthrax would cause some serious mayhem in the US, or anywhere else for that matter, think about it.
This article has recently been linked from Slashdot. Please keep an eye on the page history for errors or vandalism.
Oops, is that your whole point going down the gully I see here?
I wouldn't put it past the US government to use biological weapons. You know, since we already do. And we think the Geneva conventions are quaint.
The Truth, however, is the government is only responding to economic pressure from the populace. What would happen if we ran out of gasoline? I think most people AGAINST the war would use it as even more ammo against the current administration.
Things to do:
Write your senators (in English, with all the letters)
Write MY senators
Express your disillusionment with everyone you meet
Actively work on harnessing free energy from the environment
There's lots of talk about zero point energy, and harnessing free energy from non-matter. That's all well and good, but are you ready for another list?
Green Technology That Reduces Your Reliance on the Industrial Military Economic Monster (DIY Projects For Those of You Who Think You're Smart):
1. Attach a methane digester to your septic tank. Use it to heat your house or generate electricity. Imagine if McDonald's or some hotel chain started doing this. A methane digester costs about $2000, and for under $300, you can convert your car to run on it.
Hmm...
2. Water falls from the sky. This is not news. Your house probably already funnels it down one pipe.
3. Run rubber tubing accross a semi-busy road, and have the pressure fill a tank (this is probably illegal without a permit, mind you). There are plenty of appliances that run on air pressure, and you could run a turbine to get electricity.
4. Biodeisel. Dead cats, spent oil from McDonalds. Word to your mother.
That's it. And get the word out. The ENERGY CRISIS does not exist, and it's there so the people stay scared and easy to control.
-The Man in The Tinfoil Hat
Please stop stalking me, bro.
So when the US gathers nuclear, virulent and other weapons of mass destruction its just A ok? Not because its any different than if anyone else does it but because the US is "good" and the saviour of the world? I dont buy that for a second.
I can honestly say i fully understand why so many people hate the US with a passion. Its the essence of lies and deception. The sad thing is that not all have understood that the US isnt a democracy anymore and that the US people have nothing to do with current state of affairs. They are just puppets like the citizens in any two party bananarepublic. Whomever you vote for its still the same people and beliefs. People need to learn to separete the people from the administration. Hate the government in the US but leave the people alone.
HTTP/1.1 400
Doesn't Iran have stocks of weapon-grade anthrax? Isn't Dubya about to invade Iran (probably provoking WW3, but anyway)...doesn't it make sense to have stocks of vaccine for said invasion?
Just my £0.02
As a Canadian I fear the day the US runs out of trees and fresh watter. I'm not kidding.
-- Please insert another quarter
And this is just the start of his incompetence. Oh, and for all you democrats, where the F**K is the competent opponents? Why did so many support an invasion of a country over something that was so contrived? Supposedly, the CIA and NSA pulled one over? Really? None of the dems (and for that matter most republicans) seem to remember that right after bush's State of the Union address where GWB announced that Sadaam was trying to procur Uranium, Tenet came out and said that was a total fabrication. After GWB said that was not true, then and only then, did tenet back off on that. Of course, now a days, this is for liberation purposes. But we seem to ignore the fact that there are many worse countries out there.
Why does the USA take the right not to let UNO Inspectors control their WMD, allthough they impose that on every other country on earth?
Who cares about this anthrax that isn't supposed to be harmful with all of the DU that is.
u nition
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depleted_uranium_amm
I am not trying to bait flame here, I just want to provoke thought.
IIRC, Bush hasn't actually asked for the disarming of all these countries. He has asked that we take them out of the hands of nutcases who will use them as a first line of attack rather than a last resort; people who find ethnic cleansing an acceptable thing (he clouded the issue a bit by labeling them terrorists, but the reason they are terrorists seems clear enough to me).
Ya know, many rational world leaders think George Bush is a nutcase. Do you think that they should have the right to demand that we disarm?
"I'll have a Guinness, no wait, make that a Coors Light" -Grad student I work with, who shall remain anonymous...
It's inconceivable why we wouldn't let Iran build nuclear reactors!
Oh, wait, no it isn't. Iran is a country that is bent on acquiring nuclear weapons. The US already has them, and I'd bet dollars to donuts we already have methods to produce harmful strains of anthrax.
The fact that you think Iran is trustworthy enough to have access to nuclear tech and the US isn't trustworthy enough to vaccinate its own people speaks volumes for how pathetically biased you are.
"The whole argument just smacks of fearmongering, and throws the word anthrax around as much as possible."
Well, y'know, the article's about anthrax. And nobody forced the US government to buy it. And even if they're only using it for testing decontimination procedures, why would anthrax be better than any other similar (but not so politically insensitive) organism?
"They're not creating a biological weapons lab, just procuring enough to probably use for threat assessment of biological weapon dispersion. This is something I'd actually expect a sane government to do, and not be surprised about."
First up, it's disingenuous to present your (forgive me: baseless) opinions as facts. You have absolutely no evidence that the US isn't pursuing a biological weapons program, so stop claiming absolutes. For the record, I don't think they necessarily are researching BioWMDs, but given the US's increasing disrespect for international agreements and opinion, you can't blame the rest of the world for getting antsy, especially when you've simultaneously gone on the biggest military romp through foreign countries in living memory.
As other posters have noted: Where the US is concerned, the benefit of the doubt has been withdrawn.
"It's not going to be used for weaponry, and the US has enough nuclear firepower to not need biological weaponry, which are much more unpredictable in effect, and less reliable."
Right, just like they don't need new types of nukes, or space-based weaponery, or an SDI shield, or...
Have I made my point yet?
"The US doesn't need" has never stopped the US from researching anything that will allow you to wage war more effectively. To be fair, it frequently doesn't stop other countries either, but the US is by far the most technologically advanced, least militarily threatened, most arrogantly disrespectful of international opinion and most militarity expansionist regime in the world today.
Everything in moderation, including moderation itself
Stop press! The DOD will modify the Antrax virii, so they will be able to follow people carrying specified RFIDs. They will be running Winnows Motile Cluster Edition. By the time the product is shipped it will need to be scrapped, for China will have developed nanotechnological mites (See: Diamond Age).
For the US to use biological weapons, just not anyone else... *nods* ...
damn 'tards.
not to mention the risk of hackers...
They are getting it via mail order.
Fearmongering?! Are you for real? Only morons trust their government. I'd go so far as to say that people who trust the government are traitors to their nation.
Yeah like the US military would do such a thing to its own people.
... Well, anyway... one hand of the government wouldn't know not to investigate the source of the anthrax...
....
Though I do wonder what ever became of that guy they said did it?
If such a threat and conspiracy really did happen, how would they keep it covered up?
Certainly the US has no secret agents/operatives/asassins trained to perform such a threat. I mean mailing a few letter with anthrax in them should be a difficult thing to do, even if properly trained, right? Someone would have had to give the order too. And for it to be done where only the order giver and executor knew... but if one person, like a military person high up enough.. it wouldn't be a concpiracy ("conspiracy" by definition, requires two or more)
But it was determined that the anthrax came from a US based military base anthrax holdings....
Mod Parent up...
I thought it was a well known fact that the US helps to set up international rules so that other countries can live by them?
Man, and I just got finished with the damn smallpox vaccine (the scab just fell off today). They tried giving me the anthrax shot at the same time, but I declined. Currently the anthrax vaccine is on a "volunteer" (read: voluntold in some units) basis. I really don't want the Army to have even more excuses to drive needles into my arm. At least with the stuff is not overly abundant, they don't try to "encourage" you to take the vaccine.
"Hey soldier, we got an abundance of this vaccine stuff now, so get in line and sign the damn volunteer papers."
By the way, isn't this thing like STILL not FDA approved yet? Or was there some other reason it became a "volunteer only" vaccine?
FUD
FUD
FUD
FUD
anthrax!
FUD
FUD
USA sucks
FUD
Let's see if we can explain this.
The US is concerned about terrorists or rogue states using bioweapons.
How do you work on any defenses against bioweapons? You need to develop systems, vaccines, and procedures. Would you develop these entirely by theorizing? To some degree, that's inevitable. But whatever you CAN test, say against a NON LETHAL VARIANT OF THE BIOWEAPON YOU FEAR for example, you probably would.
Nah, that's too reasonable and doesn't engender enough irrational hatred of the US. Mod this +1 troll.
-Styopa
While I'll be the first to admit that the US operates covertly no too many situations to count, or at least does not publically announce everything, it is always difficult to have a big-picture understanding of something if you are either not looking for the truth (but only what you want to see) or you do not have access to the other pieces of the jigsaw puzzle to understand what the real picture is.
Within the last year, the Army has reinstated the Anthrax inoculation policy and has re-started their efforts in getting all troops their vaccines. This issue is near and dear to my heart as I'm in the Army and that vaccine is particually painful (not to mention tests that have variable evidence of short term memory loss).
Dugway Proving Ground seems a logical place for these types of biological defense activities to be undertaken. We'll need plenty of vaccines to take care of all the Soldiers and probably Airman, Saliors, and Marines too. I'm not saying that this is definitvly the answer, but it is at least consistant with other Army reporting.
Because the moderators here are obviously anti-American. Anything with slanderous anti-American content appears to be modded up but anything to the contrary is marked low or even troll. I've seen posts with blatently false and bashing content being marked "5 informative". Instead of being on science.slashdot.org they might consider posting this under alqaeda.slashdot.org or ihatetheusa.slashdot.org or www.washingtonpost.com. This will surely get marked troll if it isn't removed.
"What the World Wants" is irrelevant. That is exactly what you're non-sensically bitching about. The US has authority over only the US, and the government trying to extend itself over othre countries is a massive problem. So you're saying that the US should extend itself over other countries, but just with money instead of military force? No, the US cannot, and should not, solve the world's problems. The US shouldn't be a member of *any* organization that has any authority over their sovereignity; it would be unconstitutional.
First, the most obvious answer for maintaining a biological agent is for vaccination and research purposes. It's the same reason that there is quantities of things like Plague and Ebola maintained. Second, the US didn't sell Anthrax to anyone to be used as a weapon, the US sold vaccine to various places. The media was not threatened; stop making things up.
The trillion dollar bet was a mathemetical stock model. It was created by three people in the 1970s. The money in the market came from investors, not some nut-job conspiracy magic. Interest is also just the way of borrowing, and there's nothing wrong with it. Why would a company loan money at zero profit? That makes no sense.
Conclusion:
- The US does fuck with world politics, and that is largely why we have problems.
- The stock market has nothing to do with this.
- Yes, we need anthrax vaccines; it is not an eradicated disease.
- It isn't happening because fixing the world's problems would involve taking over the world. Once again, "What the World Wants" is lunacy at its best. "What our Country Wants" is what is important, and it needs to be the primary concern of the US government.
I don't belive Americans. They scared me very often in recent years. They have full mouth of words like "peace" and see what they do... I think that they have the potential to be very dangerous for the rest of the world. American paranoia plus strong military potential is a real threat. I hope that there are still wise people in the USA who have influence on their "global policy"... I hope for the good of all of us.
Well, I've got to get back to work. When I stop rowing, the slave ship just goes in circles.
From the blurb: Although the Sterne strain is not thought to be harmful to humans and is used for vaccination....
Due to FDA concerns, the Army has started and stopped its anthrax vaccination program several times. They're probably just ramping it back up again.
Nobel Prize Winner - economics
You should educate yourself as to what he received it for and the real impact it had on world economy.
And stop shooting from the hip, we have enough of that already, along with psuedo religion.
see my other comment in this thread.
conspiracy is apparently a word used more to dismiss even non-conspiracy events, than it is to describe something real.
All the US army has to do is a little basic research - maybe google Scottish islands and anthrax. I haven't tried that, but my early microbiology studies refer to ineffective tyndallisation processes there for eliminating anthrax.
From there, all they need to do is go there with a shovel, dig some bugs up and breed them in/on nutrient agar/broth.
From there, if they want to, it is very simple (i.e. can easily be done in an afternoon by common genetic engineering procedures) to insert genes into their chromosomes for resistance to common antibiotics.
The U.S. Army is prolly buying anthrax for testing defenses and new equipment.
Some terrorists have professed the desire to strike the U.S. with bioweapons. It makes good sense to prepare to defend against it.
Dugway Proving Ground has tested defenses in the past. Google it, and check it's history after 1967.
[Fuck Beta]
o0t!
We used them on the Koreans during the Korean war. Hell, we even used them on our own people! You doubt it?.. read your history books.. here's a link in the mean time.. http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/systems/bw.htm
At least that seems to be the neocons position. We seem to have a special distaste for nations that are supporting the International Criminal Court. (set up to try the 'people' who have committed CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY) Add that to our repeated support of fascist governments around the world - and our overthrowing of pluralistic (i.e two party) alternatives that displease the US corporate power brokers.. and I would say that 'Houston, we have a problem' - and that problem is real-world, ugly, nascent American fascism.
I think many Americans don't realize how bad is the conduct of their country. When you topple foreign governments, torture ppl, bombing civilians, intervene where you aren't wanted, it is no surprise that you are considered the scariest nation since WWII Germany by the rest of the world.
It is up to YOU to change your ways, not up to everyone else to just mindlessly forget your ongoing conduct. Did you ever hear the one, "all it takes for evil to flourish is for good men to do nothing"? If you do nothing, your nation will continue to act evil. But you CAN change it if you decide to. And for all our sakes, the rest of us really wish you will.
I'm sick and tired of people criticising the US. I'm mean, what have they done that's so bad?
[Heckler]- Well they toppled democracies in Chile, Iran, Guatemala, and other countries.
Ok, but apart from those misunderstandings.
[Heckler]- Well apart from toppling democracies they have supported and continue to support brutal dictatorships around the world. These include Iraq under Saddam Hussein, Saudi Arabia, Suharto in Indonesia (hundreds of thousands were Slaughtered). Most recently of course is Islam Karimov in Uzbekistan who likes to have demonstrators mown down with machine guns.
Yeah, ok maybe there were some mistakes made. But apart from toppling democracies and supporting dictatorships, what has the US ever done? I mean, what about the Kurds, we've really helped them out haven't we?
[Heckler] - Yes they're in a strong position now. Let's just hope they forget US support for Saddam while he was gassing them. And lets hope they never realise that the US massively stepped up military aid to Turkey and looked the other way while they were bombing the Kurds.
Ok, but apart from toppling democracies, supporting dictatorships and screwing the Kurds, what is the US so guilty of? [Heckler] - Well how about the support for terrorist acts against Cuba, and other countries? For example, Luis Posada Carriles, a CIA agent was behind the bombing of a Cuban Airliner in 1976. The US refused to extradite him.Then there was the Cuban hotel bombings in 1997, also involving Luis Posada Carriles. And what about those poor Cuban pigs? CIA-Backed anti-Castro terrorists introduced swine fever into Cuba in 1971. This economic sabotage resulted in the slaughter of 500,000 pigs.
Hold on. Cuba is a special situation. It's a dictatorship, so we're just trying to topple it and bring freedom to the Cubans.
[Heckler] - Ok, forget Cuba. We must not forget the 1985 Beirut car bombing. That was a CIA-backed attempt to assassinate Sheikh Muhammad Hussein Fadlallah. They missed him but killed 85 civilians. Lets also not forget the support for terrorism in Nicaragua. It got so intense that the World Court made a decision in 1986 against the US, ordering it to terminate the unlawful use of force and illegal economic warfare.
Alright, alright, but apart from toppling democracies, supporting dictatorships, screwing the Kurds and supporting terrorism, what has the US ever done?
[Heckler] - Well lets not forget about the vast numbers of civilians killed by US military action. A well-researched article in the Lancet concluded that around 100,000 Iraqis have died since the war started, mostly as a result of "coalition" air strikes. Lets also not forget the several million civilians bombed to death in Vietnam. They weren't all bombed of course, we mustn't forget the My Lai massacre.
We also must not forget the thousands killed during the invasion of Panama in 1989, who's purpose was to removed another CIA-backed dictator, Manuel Noriega.
Okay okay. We've made some past mistakes. But now we're setting it all right in Iraq.
Yes. That's exactly what I thought when I watched footage of a US helicopter slice several farmers apart while one of the pilots says "He's wounded. Hit him!". Or the F16 footage showing a crowd of civilians (not fighters as has been claimed) being bombed while the pilot says "Aw, dude!".
We'll you obviously just hate freedom!
As a Canadian, I can tell you I am afraid of America (as a whole, not its citizens). I was vacationing there last December and I was totally suprised at the presence of military guys in the airports and streets with assult rifles. This was my first time in my life i have seen an assualt rifle in person. I know they are not there to harm me but it made me feel uneasy by their presence.
Cheers, -b
No doubt.
"(30) 400 KG PLUTONIUM BAR" — that's pretty funny. Spherical critical mass for Pu-239 is about 16 kg. I wonder what ratio of length to cross-sectional area you'd have to use to prevent a bar from instantly going critical or prompt critical; you'd also want to include a safety factor for accidental immersion in a moderator. Hmm, let me check my notes....
//Information does not want to be free; it wants to breed.
this way when the senate doesnt want to pass the next version of the patriot act or similar legislation, they'll have plenty of anthrax to mail to there offices to scare them into forcing the legislation through
Foolish Americans!
" 'It raises a serious question over how the US is going to demonstrate its compliance with obligations under the Biological Weapons Convention if it brings these tanks online,'"
In the usual way:
"That would be against the treaties we have with out friends and allies. The US is committed to a world of peaceful democracy. We will stay the course until the objective is acheived, using whatever means necessary.
Weapons of mass destruction. Saddam Hussein. Iraq. Terrorism. Afghanistan. Al Qieda. September 11. Stay the course."
Who could argue with that?
"I may be synthetic, but I'm not stupid." -- Bishop 341-B
If you have a significant amount of something as deadly as anthrax ... there MUST be some trace ... some papers, some empty cans, some people. If after 2 years of free inspections in Iraq, the Americans did not discover a SINGLE TRACE -- the answer is obvious. There were no such weapons in the first place.
Then what did he use to kill all those Kurds? What about that chemical bomb that went off (improperly, thank [insert your preference], when the terrorists thought it was an explosive bomb and detonated it the wrong way)? What about the pieces of the nuclear bomb project the scientist dug up from his garden and turned in, along with the story about how he'd been ordered to hide it.
What about the list of WMDs he GAVE THE UN INSPECTORS?
(I could go on with a litany of what evidence they DID find, both before and after. But I suspect you'll then claim it was all made up.)
Now maybe he really DID destroy it all (or tried to and got most of it) - but then tried to keep up the appearance he'd hit it to keep his neighbors on rebellious provinces in check, thinking the western powers would never attack. (If so he grossly underestimated the risk the West perceived and the resolve to eliminate, once 9/11 convinced the new US administration that terrorists would use WMDs if they got some. And he didn't realize that Junior would learn from Daddy's mistake - wouldn't stop short of deposing him because he thought his UN mandate had run out and again leave him in power to slaughter our allies among Iraq's population.)
And maybe he never had as many as he thought, because his department heads might have inflated results rather than risking his wrath.
But if you truly believe he NEVER had ANY and NO paper trail was EVER discovered, one thing is clear: You've been duped by somebody's propaganda, and now refuse to accept the actual evidence.
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
...before the Nuke Washington crowd finally agrees that we've stopped?
The last proven instance of the USA toppling a democratically elected government was in Chile in 1973. That's 32 years ago. Maybe 32 years doesn't constitute "stopped"?
Yes, I know about Venezuela. And Haiti. As you say elsewhere in this thread, "allegedly." Allegedly doesn't cut it. Iraq "allegedly" had WMD.
And I always had my doubts of CIA involvement in Venezuela. Foreign leaders ousted by the CIA tend to stay ousted. Go ask Mossadegh, Goulart, Allende....
Applauding the coup, and may that idiot Bush burn in hell for it, is one thing. Instigating it is quite another.
Ooh, moderator points! Five more idjits go to Minus One Hell!
Delendae sunt RIAA, MPAA et Windoze
As many problems as the USA faces (and there are many), I don't see any other nation doing a better job. As a matter of fact, no other nation seems to come close.
I'd suggest bashing your own nation first, get your country perfect, and then you have every right to come bashing us.
Yes, I know who was being talked about. I know about the topic and the formula they discovered, too. Just because it had an effect on economics does not make it the fault of the US government. Why would this have anything to do with world affairs? It was an advance in game theory, not a political agenda.
When someone starts blaming random things on the government, and coming up with all sorts of crazy connections that aren't really there, then yes, it starts to be conspiracy theory at work. It's talking about the government secretly working to effect world economics through secret agreements with other parties.
I also can't see the other comment, because you posted as "Anonymous Coward".
Sterne is an old vaccine strains used for animals, not humans. Nobody is going to get vaccinated with that stuff. The Army can't even develop a safe anthrax vaccine .. but tht beside the point. Anyway, Dugway Proving Ground is not a biodmedical (or veterinary) installation, and Sterne ain't used to vaccinate people. Nope, this is anthrax is for creepy military stuff. Imagine if the Iranians did this!
Price is determined by the ratio of supply to demand. If gas is in short supply, it means that two things must happen. First, fewer people must use oil, second, oil producers must produce more oil. Raising oil prices has both of these effects. First, people conserve more in order to reduce their own costs (this happens right away and causes prices to increase dramatically). Second, oil producers or producers of alternate goods (hybrid cars, public transportation, what have you) find that higher prices mean that more resources may be cost-effectively developed. This means oil producers will try to squeeze more out of their wells, as well as building wells in locations that would not have been economical at the lower price.
If oil producers kept the prices low, it would mean that they would sell all of their oil, and there would be customers who would go without. In order to prevent long lines at gas stations, the government would have to attempt to ration gasoline. Moreover, since gas producers could not get a higher price, they would not try to develop more resources. The end result is a huge shortage. That's a lot worse than having to pay a little bit more for gas.
I am working on devices that my company owns the patents on to detect anthrax (or any biological agent) real-time. Now if only we could get some government contract (or a VC for that matter) to fund us. I would hate for some of this to escape their facilities.
Or at least the reason he claims is that he didn't realize, until midorder, that the guiness was not on tap...
"I'll have a Guinness, no wait, make that a Coors Light" -Grad student I work with, who shall remain anonymous...
Face it, sucker. You were had. Are you planning to wise up any time soon? Doesn't sound like it.
Hey, if you don't like the bridge, how about some nice Florida real estate? Let me just check to see when it will be low tide so I can show it to you...
Freedom = (Meaningful - Coerced) Choice != (Speech | Beer^2), and sad sock puppets' bad mods avail them naught.
This strain of anthrax being produced is used for vaccination.
But don't let the facts distract you!
If y'all remember, we had a problem with anthrax in the mail?
Good security is based upon reality and common sense. Common sense is a function of having common knowledge.
Who else but the USA could have weapons of mass destruction?
;)
The US has cornered the market. Who else on the entire planet can claim the largest stockpile of nuclear, chemical and biological weapons distributed in strategic locations throughout all 50 states?
Everyone in the 'free world' (outside the USA) KNOWS the real purpose of the war on Iraq.
After having spoken with many military people who served there -- I can only suggest that people ask your politicians exactly why it was that the oil fields were 'secured' within the first 15 minutes of the war -- yet the government offices were looted long before anyone arrived to bother to look for any 'secrets' or WMDs?
The priorities were so obvious it is amazing that even CNN chose to ignore them. Hmmmm. Another interesting point...
So shut up.
:-)
Besides, you're pretending that the only expenditure of energy is going into the rubber tubing. You're also pretending that harnessing unfocused energy makes a system less efficient, which is not true.
And again, in case you're right, use my idea in speed bumps, and shut the hell up.
Please stop stalking me, bro.