RPGs In The 'Real World'

As more and more people realize the fun they're denying themselves by turning away from orc-bashing and dragon-baiting, mainstream businesses and media are paying more attention to RPGs. Sam the Giant writes "Barnes & Noble University is offering a free 8 hour on-line course titled 'Discover Dungeons & Dragons: Becoming a D&D Player'. The free course is described as follows: 'As a beginning player, this course will guide you in understanding how D&D works, explaining the various worlds and characters types that it is based on, creating a D&D role for yourself, and understanding how your player role interacts in the world and with other characters. You will learn the extent of your abilities and the possibilities that lie ahead for your player, including magical spells, mythic quests, and epic battles with incredible monsters.' It's free to enroll." In the same vein, NPR's great reporting turns to World of Warcraft. Dragoonmac writes "All Things Considered recently ran a feature about WoW communities, farmers, and a humorous review of real-life. A Slashdotter's must hear."

Comments

Ain't Real World

[gbulmash]

Real world?????

IMO, if I'm not rolling a 20-sided die, it's virtual. Actually, even if I am rolling a 20-sided die, it's virtual.

If I think "real world" in relation to an RPG, I think of physically playing the game, such as an assasination game or something like that. To me, RPGs around a table or the flickering light of a monitor are virtual. Before I ever touched a computer, D&D was a form of VR where your imagination was the interface, a module was the software, and the dungeonmaster (along with a number of dice) was the CPU.

- Greg

Re:Ain't Real World

[MoonFog]

Isn't that the wonder of it? Even with today's tools that will allow us to really visualise the game, most of us prefer the old fashion way of playing RPGs. We each have our own perception on how the world should look, and we picture it ourselves. No game or movie can replace that.

Re:Ain't Real World

[uptoeleven]

The mind truly boggles. The amount of time and money people spend on gaming in general and RPGs in particular I feel guilty for having a life / being a musician and playing gigs / doing stuff that isn't work or gaming. I saw the appeal when I was a kid but I just don't any more, life is way too short to spend hours of it pretending to exist in a mythical world when I already exist in this world.

Re:Ain't Real World

[DrunkenTerror]

That, plus you can't fudge die rolls when the central computer's rolling for everyone.

Quite different from when the DM says, "Everyone roll initiative" and 8 sets of dice all clatter simultaneously in various corners of the room. ;)

Re:Ain't Real World

[Anonymous Coward]

The mind truly boggles. The amount of time and money people spend on instruments in general and being in a band in particular I feel guilty for having a life / being an RPer and playing games / doing stuff that isn't work or music. I saw the appeal when I was a kid but I just don't any more, life is way too short to spend hours of it pretending that I could be the next American Idol when I already exist in this world.

Not so subtle point aside, I also gave up gaming long ago. Just because we're not gamers doesn't make our hobbies better than their hobby.

Re:Ain't Real World

[hunterx11]

I hear it's so bad that there are even anti-social people who read books about things that never happened :)

Re:Ain't Real World

[Lemmy Caution]

Leisure is real. What you are doing is a leisure activity, there. A real one. With real people. Structured around a fiction implemented as a game, yes. But a real game.

Re:Ain't Real World

[Deekin_Scalesinger]

Please, no 733+ sword is going to do 10 points of damage. Come on. You get 10 points of damage with like a dry sponge, or a fistful of leaves flung at someone. Expect a mega-reet longsword in D&D to do over 100 points of damage, once all the enchantments and criticals are taken into account (you didn't forget about the critical hits, did you?) Think outside the bun, man.

Re:Ain't Real World

[Sire Enaique]

And wasn't it Gygax himself who once said that the use for dice was to make noise behind the DM's screen? :)

but more importantly, games - whatever their type - are basically abount human interaction. And the best way to interact with people is face to face. Any kind of mediation removes something from that interaction.

Re:Ain't Real World

[nospam007]

Real world????? ...
If I think "real world" in relation to an RPG, I think of ...
--
Rocket Propelled Grenades?
Doesn't get any realer.

Re:Ain't Real World

[Ohreally_factor]

Everything I needed to know in life I learned from the Players' Handbook.

Re:Ain't Real World

[Anonymous Coward]

Right on. Congratulations on graduating from gamer to judgmental, self-important prick.

Re:Ain't Real World

[geminidomino]

Actually, the troll was right, at least when it comes to PnP run by a guy who doesn't try to Final-Fantasy-up the math. :)

Think the most leet sword I ever saw was able to do 35 on a crit.

Re:Ain't Real World

[Meagermanx]

Actually, most of us enjoy MMOs more. I enjoy the classic, traditional tabletop RPG, but when you compare figures, Blizzard is making way more than Wizards of the Coast, I would guess.
RPGs are only making a comeback with the old people who remember them from the '70s and '80s. People my age (17) just don't enjoy thinking.

Re:Ain't Real World

[jdray]

Actually, most of us enjoy MMOs more.

I suppose that depends on which "us" either of you are a member of. Us old codgers prefer table top games, I suspect. Personally, I enjoy the social aspect of getting around a table and playing a game with my friends. Lately we're more into board games than RPGs, but we spent several years on a couple of long-term campaigns.

Regarding your estimation of income for Blizzard versus WotC, it comes down to how much product gets sold for the average gamer. How much do you spend annually on WoW? If it's $50 to get started and $10 per month, that's $170 per gamer for the first year, $120 for each following year. Over three years, that's over $400. A group of six players spends about $2500. The same group of tabletop RPG players might buy one complete set of manuals at $35 a pop (six or so sourcebooks for $210), plus a Player's book for each non-GM ($175 total) plus an assortment of interesting, yet random other source material at around $20 each, say another $200. For under $600, the team of six is outfitted for an eternity of play. And that makes everyone pretty well outfitted, let alone the savings by sharing materials and whatnot (one Players book is usually good for about three people to share). Over five years of playing tabletop RPGs as a non-GM player, I spent under $100 on materials.

Also, from the pure profit angle, software and online services have much higher profit margins than book publishing.

As usual, it all depends on your perspective.

Re:Ain't Real World

[Meagermanx]

I seriously don't think RPGing is going to catch on again. It simply takes too much creativity for the average person. Then you have to take into account how everyone has to be in the same place at the same time. MMOing is just simpler and more convenient for the average person.
I wish there were some stats, but if you asked a standard demographic of Americans whether they play MMOs/RPGs, I think you would find the MMOs hold the upper hand.

Re:Ain't Real World

[jdray]

I agree that RPGs aren't going to catch on again; us old codgers are going to die out eventually, leaving you youngsters to boil in your own broth. Unless there's some sort of social backlash or radical technology shift, the next twenty years of gaming look to be about better graphics and sound, and better integrating an individual with the gaming environment. You've seen those Battletech pods that are a completely integrated environment for one person? What happens when those hit the home market, but with a closer, more custom fit? Add photo-realistic game systems and a good AI, people start spending more time there than with families. Network them together, and people start preferring social interaction over the wire to that in person.

It's an old saw, but it's happening despite all the warning signs that have become cliche. Right now, teens can't write because all their typing is in online chat rooms and IM clients. Take "r u on? wut u doing?" and extrapolate that to more human-integrated interfaces. What happens to someone's ability to use language when their speech patterns have gone down the same road?

No way? Way.

Re:Ain't Real World

[Meagermanx]

Sadly, I have to agree with you.
My generation is generally stupid. They're only tech-savvy about AOL Instant Messenger and MySpace, they can't write a sentence worth a damn, and they can't spell anything.
I guess it's no worse than a few hundred years ago, but it's kind of annoying to see all these great, free learning resources going to waste on a generation of idiots who don't care.
Then again, maybe RPGs just need to shake off the nerd image and market to a younger crowd. I doubt most of the denizens of any given MMO have even played a Pen and Paper RPG, and if they did they might find playing it over AIM incredibly fun.

Re:Ain't Real World

[Onan]

And wasn't it Gygax himself who once said that the use for dice was to make noise behind the DM's screen? :)

I've heard stories of a DM who carried among his dice a very large ball bearing. He referred to it as a d1.

Whenever a player would ask to do something clearly impossible, he would solemnly glance down, roll the d1--which made a very recognizable sound--look back up at them, and deadpan, "you failed."

Re:Ain't Real World

[Peeteriz]

In D&D (3 or 3.5), common, non-magical large weapons like greataxe or scythe can do 30+ on a critical. (36 max for the greataxe).
Okay, swords have lesser damage and criticals.
Let's suppose a non-magical greatsword - 2d6, x2 criticals on 19-20.
When wielded two-handed by a str 18 lvl 1 character, it gets the +4 str mod multiplied by 1.5, so we have 2d6+6 (max 18) on a normal roll, and max 36 on a critical.

So, 35+ is easily achievable, and using the DMG-proposed character creation rules, a 10-th level fighter would have a good enough sword and enough feats to hope to get 100+ damage on a critical.

Re:Ain't Real World

[MadJo]

"star wars is CRAP"

And you call yourself a wookie? :)

Re:Ain't Real World

[gnud]

You do know that bonus dice are not multiplied on a critical?

Re:Ain't Real World

[Peeteriz]

Yeah, bonus dice aren't multiplied, but any and all modifiers (fixed, not dice) are multiplied - the strength mod to damage, the damage bonus of magic weapons, damage bonus gained from feats (for example, power attack).
Let's suppose a lvl 8 half-orc barbarian with str 20 (easily achievable at low levels - good roll, +2 from race, maybe added strength at 4th/8th level) has a +5 strength modifier, and may have feats like improved critical and power attack. If using the DMG suggested starting wealth for 8th level, he may easily have a +2 keen (doubles the chance of critical hit) greataxe.

So he would have 1d12+9 as normal damage. 1d12+17, when maxing out powerattack. And, on criticals (which happen on rolls 18-20 for him) he gets three times that, so 3d12+54 (max 90) for his first attack. And of course, an additional 1d12+17 to that, if he somehow hits with his second attack.
So an (unlikely to roll so high, but still) potential of 119 hp damage in one full attack at lvl 8 - here you go.

Re:Ain't Real World

[geminidomino]

I also took it to mean "before character bonuses" that is, counting plusses on the sword and crits, but not strength, specializations, and extra strikes.

Life is a party, I wonder how I keep myself thin

[LittleBigScript]

I thought DND was something that 'happened' to you? Like an anti-choice.

What about "Barnes & Noble University" Can I get a degree?

RPG...

[Comatose51]

Obligatory Quote:

"RRR....PPPP.....GGGG........" -Blackhawk Down

Sorry. Couldn't resist.

Reading the NPR article now. Hope that might make up for the Karma burning. Interesting graph of WoW Gold versus USD rate. I've always wondered about that. I remember when EQ first came out and EQ Plats were trading at a better rate than the Euro (or was it Franc) was at that time. I thought it was absurd... until the eBay character sales.

Re:RPG...

[Anonymous Coward]

[m]ayhem!

Re:RPG...

[Anonymous Coward]

lol remember when that guy shot Lincoln?

Re:RPG...

[Comatose51]

Humor is hard to predict. Sorry, didn't mean to offend.

Re:RPG...

[Anonymous Coward]

It's unfortunate that you aren't dead, too. Preferably in a completely meaningless way, like watching your parachute get tangled up or running your jeep into a tree while you're checking the roadmap.

Grow a fucking skin, dipshit. His comment wasn't inappropriate in the least. Casting nancyboys like Ewen Bremner, Orlando Bloom or Jeremy Piven in that movie -- that was inappropriate.

Now, please, kill yourself. I hate to think that I'm breathing the same air as you.

Re:RPG...

[mick88]

I realize that you are leading me way off topic, but I thought I would at least bother to ask: have you listend to NPR in the past 6 months? Most of the reporting has to do with Iraq, the supreme court, scandals (plenty about the CPB scandal, too) and the way too much freakin' hurricane coverage. I'm a huge NPR fan, but dammit enough hurricane coverage!!

Believe it or not, NPR will provide you a hell of a lot more info about what's going on in the world and the country than most news stations cause they skip the majority of the tabloid, sensationalist trashy stuff that local stations thrive on. Yeah, you can bitch and moan that it further left than Fox news, but honestly: it's 99% solid reporting about actual news.

This stupid RPG story was meant to be a lighter story to give a break from the serious stuff, that's all. And if you listen to a lot of NPR, you are usually grateful for the stories that change the pace.

If your tax dollars are being wasted, beleive me... it's not NPR that wasting the bulk of them. The entire lump sum of tax dollars going to the Corporation for Public Broadcasting for this year (http://www.house.gov/budget/laborhhs03.htm) is 360 million, compared to a total projected overal spending of 300-600 BILLION in iraq (multiple years, obviously), as well as projected 200 BILLION spent on Katrina (http://www.heritage.org/Research/Budget/wm844.cfm ). BTW - that's from the heritage foundation, generally known to be quite conservative people.

Not saying we shouldn't be in Iraq just saying that NPR doesn't cost you much comparatively.

Re:RPG...

[dbIII]

If your tax dollars are being wasted, beleive me... it's not NPR that wasting the bulk of them

They also sell stuff to overseas networks - I listen to "All Things Considered" in Australia.

These days you are seen as far to the left if you broadcast things that contradict "spin". Consider that it may be a philosophy of truth vs lies and not left vs right. Not everyone who criticises horse judges in the wrong places are communists.

* rolls twenty-sided die *

[Anonymous Coward]

I'll pass.

Re:* rolls twenty-sided die *

[Macgrrl]

Surely you mean 'Delay', or 'Ready versus swarm of DnD geeks'.

Humourous Review of RL

[DrunkenTerror]

The "humorous review of real-life" is two years old, and can be found here. It's pretty funny though.

pros: Great Graphics, Vast Open-Ended Gameplay
cons: Random Start, Permadeath

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Getting into D&D?

[MBCook]

I have recently thought about getting into D&D. Does anyone have suggestions on how to get into this game? Is there anything I should do other than "buy the basic set and start playing"?

Re:Getting into D&D?

[Nightspirit]

First off, ignore the trolls. Many gamers go against stereotype and some are just like "normal" people. For instance, I'm a doctor currently DMing a game, one of my players is a professor, and another is a police officer. We're all sucessful and married. Hardly people living in their parents basement. RPGs can be a great way to be social, make friends, and play a game that can stimulate your mind and imagination. Your location may have a local game shop where they sell RPGs. They should have a bulletin board where people will be looking for gamers. Either contact an ad that looks interesting or put up your information. Make sure you notify the person (or put in your ad) that you are a beginner. Groups are starting up all the time, and IME getting into a game is never a problem. Ignore any games going on at the game store. They can be good for beginners, and some game shops may have excellent games going on, but more likely they are pit stops for desperate gamers, and a breeding ground for bad DMs and players. You will likely be put off if your first impression is from one of these games. Another option is to put your information on the wizards of the coast bulletin board: http://boards1.wizards.com/forumdisplay.php?f=347 If you go to a game and don't enjoy it, politely notify the DM, and find another. Not all games cater to all people, and while one group may be horrible for you, another may be a perfect match. Have fun!

Re:Getting into D&D?

[Tackhead]

> Does anyone have suggestions on how to get into this game? Is there anything I should do other than "buy the basic set and start playing"?

Start off on the good foot. If you're a magic-user, the most important spell is Lvl. 3 Eroticism. Be sure to tell the GM that you would like to "put on your robe and wizard hat" before you learn it, aight?

If your party ever encounters a gazebo, be sure to ask the GM how many hit dice it has. Be careful - those things have powerful resists.

And on a more serious note, if you enjoyed either of those links, you're on the right track. Buy a basic set. Find a group of players who recognize a (Hitch-Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy, Monty Python, Terry Pratchett, Snow Crash, or any other bit of canonical geek humor) and start playing. If they're not playing D&D, play whatever it is they're playing. All pen-and-paper RPGs are fundamentally the same - if you've got even the slightest inklings of an imagination and a sense of humor, it doesn't matter how introverted you are. You'll have more fun than you ever thought possible.

Re:Getting into D&D?

[BarneyRabble]

I would suggest that you go to your local independent hobby store in your town and find first, and foremost, the AD&D first edition rule books. Forget about second and third editions for a while. The reasoning behind this is that the old, and I do mean OLD rules are not so constraining as the new rulesets are (and they are not poisoned by the WOtC/Hasbro crap).

Once you get the books, get the dice, and i mean several DICE (d4, d6, d8, d10, d12, d20) and ROLL out a character...no computer programs please. Let fate cast your fortune in the creation of your character. (And please stay away from the Paladins, plaase...arrow of paladin kill is always on someone's list of weapons...)

Get some friends together and have them create their own characters.

Read the DM's guide, and create your own storyline. Weave a tale with your party members.
This is called FUN, Its called interactiive play. Something a PC and a bunch of other geeks behind a MMORPG are not doing a whole lot these days.

Re:Getting into D&D?

[LordNimon]

Why don't you just sign up for the B&N class?! That's what it's there for. There are lots of internet resources for finding other players, but a good place to start would be to join the RPGA. You could also inquire at the local game shop if they sell D&D stuff.

Re:Getting into D&D?

[justchris]

The very first thing to do, before buying any books or anything, is find people to play with. This can be friends who are similarly interested, or people who are already playing.

There are several reasons for this, the first being, there is no point in buying the books for the games if you have no one to play with. This is not the type of game you play by yourself, it requires a group of at least 4 people. That way, you can split the cost of the books (specifically with D&D there are 3 core books needed to play), or if you find a group already playing, most of them will already have the books, and you can borrow them until you decide whether you like it enough to own it.

Another good reason to find a group is because, while D&D is a big name, it's not the only Pen & Paper RPG out there. You may get into a group who prefers Shadowrun (a futuristic cyberpunk game), Big Eyes, Small Mouth (an anime game) or one of the branded big name games (there are Star Wars & Star Trek games, a Serenity game coming out, even Buffy and Angel games). There are a lot of choices, so finding a group of friends, and deciding what kind of setting you want, is really the first step. Once you have an idea of setting, pop by your local hobby store (in group even) and ask them what games they suggest for that particular setting. Pick up the main core books, and maybe a module to get you going if you've never RP'd before, and you should be ready to go from there.

Re:Getting into D&D?

[Brandybuck]

Suggestion number one: Don't. Get a real roleplaying game. Seriously. Unless of course you're the type of person who likes McDonald's hamburgers, Budweiser beer, and Microsoft operating systems.

Suggestion number two: Go to a gaming store and look for a message board with available games. Find one that isn't D&D. Join as a player.

Suggestion number three: In case you want to know what game to play instead of D&D, the answer depends on what you want. There are hundreds of quality games out there, so don't ignore them just because they're not Hasbro. GURPS, Shadowrun, Conan, Serenity, Traveller, Runequest, Rolemaster, Call of Cthulhu, HarnMaster, Heroes, etc.

Re:Getting into D&D?

[crimson30]

A piece of advice: Don't judge role-playing by the first group you stumble upon. Personally, I'm a bit picky and in my experience, at least 75% of all RPG groups turn out to be rather dull (hack & slash, unimaginative folks, etc).

Also, while your post specifies D&D, do try and consider RPGs that have less emphasis on pen-and-paper (more storytelling style), although I'm not familiar with good COTS RPGs of the sort.

Other than that, there are already some good posts that directly address your question.

Re:Getting into D&D?

[Nightspirit]

Whoops. Here is the same comment, but I fixed the formatting.

First off, ignore the trolls. Many gamers go against stereotype and some are just like "normal" people. For instance, I'm a doctor currently DMing a game, one of my players is a professor, and another is a police officer. We're all sucessful and married. Hardly people living in their parents basement. RPGs can be a great way to be social, make friends, and play a game that can stimulate your mind and imagination.

Your location may have a local game shop where they sell RPGs. They should have a bulletin board where people will be looking for gamers. Either contact an ad that looks interesting or put up your information. Make sure you notify the person (or put in your ad) that you are a beginner. Groups are starting up all the time, and IME getting into a game is never a problem.

Ignore any games going on at the game store. They can be good for beginners, and some game shops may have excellent games going on, but more likely they are pit stops for desperate gamers, and a breeding ground for bad DMs and players. You will likely be put off if your first impression is from one of these games.

Another option is to put your information on the wizards of the coast bulletin board: http://boards1.wizards.com/forumdisplay.php?f=347

If you go to a game and don't enjoy it, politely notify the DM, and find another. Not all games cater to all people, and while one group may be horrible for you, another may be a perfect match.

Have fun!

Re:Getting into D&D?

[aj1]

> If every member of the group can't qoute monty python's: search for the holy grail. You should probably move on ;)

Re:Getting into D&D?

[Psionicist]

By far the best message board about Dungeons & Dragons is ENWorld: http://www.enworld.org/ It's actually the only forum I know of where the average member is older than 30, for better or worse. They have a specific forum for gamers looking for groups to join. There might be groups in your area, try it out.

Re:Getting into D&D?

[bytor4232]

The basic set is somewhat limiting, and although similar to Dnd 3.5e, its not quite the same, and almost all players are on full 3.5e.

I'm a registered GM with the RPGA (the organized play arm of WotC), so I can help you out:

1. Pick up Dungeons and Dragons for Dummies. I flipped through it, and it was a very good guide for learning Dnd if you know absolutely nothing about the game.

2. Pick up the Players Handbook. Make sure you get version 3.5e. You don't actually need the Dungeon Master's guide and Monster Manual right away, but do get them some day. Each of the core set can be had for around 20 bucks from Amazon, but if you can afford a little extra, buy them from a local game shop. Its important to support them.

3. Find a place to play. I would recommend a local hobby and/or game shop. Its the most popular game out there, and the oldest, chances are someone out there is playing it. Ask the shopkeep how to find a game. If you can't, you can always start with an online version of the game. The largest and most popular way to play Dnd online is play by post. One of the best sites for that is DNDOG. They have a great community and plenty of people who would love to get another player into the game.

Good luck! Your welcome to email me at dm@aerthon.com if you have any additional questions.

Re:Getting into D&D?

[Anonymous Coward]

Your best bet is to talk to co-workers, friends and family about this. Getting into the game by yourself is a daunting task (suitable for higher level parties though). D&D is an old game and many people have played it through-out the ages, you'll be surprised at who has played!

If you cannot find anyone and you are starting your own game the three core books are the way to go (Player's Handbook, Dungeon Master's Guide and Monster Manual I 3.5 edition). Nearly everyone I have talked to has said that the D&D Basic Set is worthless.

You can also try "D&D for Dummies" (No link, try your favourite book store, sorry).

Re:Getting into D&D?

[Infernal Device]

Having a basement helps, though. A dedicated gaming area is something that a lot of gamers aspire to.

Plus, you can play till 5AM without disturbing anyone.

Re:Getting into D&D?

[Achra]

Rhinoceruses don't play games!

Re:Getting into D&D?

[RubberChainsaw]

How can you leave out the classic: I wanna cast.. MAGIC MISSILE!

:)

Re:Getting into D&D?

[Planesdragon]

A "Psion" pimping EnWorld on /. --

You wouldn't happen to be Psion, would you?

Re:Getting into D&D?

[Macdude]

I have recently thought about getting into D&D. Does anyone have suggestions on how to get into this game? Is there anything I should do other than "buy the basic set and start playing"?

Step zero: Give up on the idea of ever getting laid.
Step one: Find other people who are playing already.
Step two: Sit in with them and see how the game goes.
Step three: If you had fun in step two, offer to take over an NPC for a couple of sessions.
Step four: If you enjoyed step three and the others enjoyed your company talk to the DM about rolling up your own character.
Step five: Buy the Player's Handbook (or whatever rule book the people in your group are using).
Step six: If they are playing D&D, get a (second) job to finance the purchase of all the add on books and plastic figurines.

If at any time these rules break down, return to step one and begin again.

Re:Getting into D&D?

[iq in binary]

First step:

Find a group. This is actually pretty easy, just ask around; there are also mail lists online, I found my current group on a forum called Access Denied. You do however, need to find a group of "real" people. There are D&D players out there who take the game way too seriously and look at it as a way to become a god in their own little worlds, where noone else can compromise them. These people are bad, mace them on sight (hehe, good pun) and quickly report them to the NSA. These people are most commonly referred to as "Meta-" or "Power-" followed by either "gamer", "tard", "fuck" or "loser".

A good D&D session should seem to anyone watching who has no idea what D&D is themself like a bunch of people sitting around a table shooting the shit and sharing jokes. It's a game, you're supposed to have fun. If you sit down with a group and you feel as if you have a heavy burdon on you to pick up the game quickly and turn your character into the best damage dealer in the team, walk away from the group. Find people who are easy going, have respectable jobs, don't live in their parent's basement and like to get the group together for other things besides a D&D session. These are the kind of people who will take the time to answer your questions and even go a little out of their way to show you neat little tricks within the system to make the game more fun. Your DM, the person who dictates the game and presents you with the world that your character will interact with; NEEDS to be a cool guy. As much as the people you're playing with are important to having fun, the DM is equally if not moreso. A good DM is not afraid to kill an entire party if they do something stupid, on the same note a good DM is not afraid to outright kick a player out if he is a pain in the sides of the rest of the players. The DM maintains the balance of the game, he dictates the pace, story, challenges and thus the fun. You should try to stay away from DM's that seem like to type to cheat at video games or lie to their mothers, I'll tell you why in a second.

Now to give you a better idea what to look for, I'll illustrate the experience a good D&D game should be:

You start out at Level 1. You're a peon, an ant, an insignificant little spec in the universe that won't affect any change whatsoever if you were to storm the Baron's keep screaming your lungs out this instant. You have found yourself going on a trek with a group of other insignificant specs. You run into a couple battles, brigands trying to waylay you or what not, and have learned from your experiences. By the time you get where you're going you're level 2 or 3. You still aren't bad ass, your party relies on wit and hair-brained schemes to pull of what you've been tasked or have tasked yourself to do. If you're level 5 by the end of the first session, don't come back for the second, D&D is a game of patience, if you're playing bi-weekly it should take about a year to get to 13th or 14th level. There are 20 levels in D&D, you should not be reading Epic Level Handbooks unless you've been playing in the same world for years. As I said, this game's about having fun, but it's also about telling a story. A campaign (That is the term for a group progressing from 1st level to the End Game) should seem like an epic novel. Think Lord of the Rings, for that is what this game was modeled after. Kingdoms should rise and fall, gods fall from the heavens, dragons slain, tyrannical emperors crushed in the couple of years (game time) the players have lived to affect change around them. Certain players will become kings or tyrants themselves, a good D&D group has a sense of omniscience of them as far as the game is concerned, they know they have a while yet to go and should be in no rush to be 20th level. As a matter of fact, I am one of many D&D players that feels a group should almost never reach epic levels (20th and beyond) in any campaign, ever. A good scope of how you should view levels would be this: You've never practiced martial arts i

Re:Getting into D&D?

[galen]

Give 'em a break. They're only 1st Lvl. Full memorization isn't a requisite until at least 3rd Lvl. Of course, it varies by class: Wizards must not only have it memorized, but must also pronounce every line perfectly while fighters really just need to know the proper technique for attacking a castle with a sword and how to dodge flying trojan bunnies.

~~galen~~

Re:Getting into D&D?

[Sector Bug]

Another option would be to try an IRC, email or Web based game. These can be usefull if you don't have a local group. No need to travel anywhere.

Re:Getting into D&D?

[Anonymous Coward]

"First off, ignore the trolls."

are you crazy? they'll eat you!

Re:Getting into D&D?

[Rayston]

http://www.findplay.anvilwerks.com/ http://www.accessdenied.net/ http://www.rpgregistry.com/ http://www.rpg.net/ http://www.indie-rpgs.com/

Re:Getting into D&D?

[Swordsmanus]

Here's a few tips from the WotC Character Optimization boards if you're going to play D&D 3.5 : For a first character, go with a straight cleric or a druid, unless the flavor of the classes just isn't your thing. You can't go wrong otherwise. They are the two most powerful classes overall from 1-20, they have no weaknesses, and having at least one of the two in your party is a necessity by design of the game. Thus, they will be rather easy to play, and you won't have to worry about pulling weight in your party, even if it's your first time playing.

Making a fighter, barbarian or similar melee type will be easier to pick up, as they are usually more simple to play. However to make a good one, it takes a greater understanding of the game rules than if you play a cleric or druid. Sort of a paradox, I know. Another paradox is that a CoD can actually out-fight most of the primary fighting classes by the mid levels, and definetly towards the higher levels.

Oh, and on a related note, multiclassing is intended in 3.5, mainly for non-spellcasting classes. There's nothing wrong with it or unbalancing about it. A straight CoD is actually more powerful than nearly any multiclass combination.

Also, don't let the character class name bind you to what you want for your character concept. The class names are just handy labels for describing a set of abilities. A barbarian could just as easily be called a "fast, durable skirmisher". Barbarians don't all have to be "THOG SMASH!". So don't pigeonhole yourself just based on what's written on your character sheet. A cleric could even work as a mercenary, wizards can be very devout in following what diety they choose, and so on. Clerics in 3.5 don't even have to follow a diety. They can just believe in a set of ideals or a particular alignment axis.

Anyway, I hope that helps.

Re:Getting into D&D?

[Bob Uhl]

Don't forget Space:1889, the game of Victorian space exploration. Man did I love that one...

Re:Getting into D&D?

[lapagecp]

Glad you asked. Well first, I started playing D&D in 6th grade played sporatically through college and am currently involved in "getting the group back together." Step 1 Get a group. Try to find people you know or at least are friends of friends. Don't play with people that you or another player are romantically involved. D&D like poker is best played unfettered. Step 2 Buy the books. Pick a person in your group who likes planning and creating more then actually playing. Give that person the books and have him/her read the players, DM, monstermanual in that order. Once he/she is done with the players pass it around till all players have read it. Step 3 Have a meeting where people discuss what classes they want to play, what they expect from playing, when they will play, and if you can decide how much dues will be. Setting a definet time and collecting dues helps to keep people from not showing and allows you to have money to buy new books and maybe minatures without one person paying for everything (at this point or prior you should have or plan on buying another players guide, more then one is handy, and everyone should have there own dice or at least a few sets to share). Step 4 Everyone create characters and the DM starts creating an adventure. Once character are made submit them to the DM for review and be prepared to make changes. Sometimes you need to change your character some to make it fit in the DM's vision and make the game more fun for everyone (this can all be done in either the first meeting or at another meeting if time allows) Step 5 Dive in. My group is somewhere between step 4 and 5 right now. Luckily I have all the books we need plus most of the D&D Library if we decide we want them. (the three core books are all you really need) I also have a decent collection of minatures and we are collecting 5 bucks per person per adventure to buy more. We have set the 1st and 3rd Saturday of every month as times to play with the possibility of using the 2nd or 4th if people have conflicts with the established times. We plan to start at noon and be finished by 7 the latest. The DM will start looking for a convient place to stop if we have not finished the adventure by 5. That allows till 5:30 or 6 to actually finish playing and the last hour to debrief. We are encouraging players to keep diarys of what happened including specific details that they don't want to forget. This allows them to review before the next adventure to keep things fresh in there minds. We are computer users all and so have a mailing list that the DM uses to inform us of any changes or provide us with info pefore a game if need be.

If rolling a 20 sided die

[ficken]

If rolling a 20 sided die is your idea of a fun night and prevents you from getting laid, you need to reevaluate your life But then again it is a free country...

Re:If rolling a 20 sided die

[Sofa King Cold]

You're just upset about the fact that we have a backup plan for when we don't get laid and you failed to plan ahead...

Re:If rolling a 20 sided die

[lactose99]

'Round these parts, its possible to get laid BECAUSE OF a 20-sided die. Of course, having a high Charisma doesn't hurt either.

Re:If rolling a 20 sided die

[Anonymous Coward]

Hmm... I got laid Wednesday night. Know what? It SUCKED (oh, and I don't mean that in a good way despite her half-hearted blow job). She was tired and rushed me. (Oh, and yes she's hot... I'm just tired of her. I'm especially tired of the credit card debt she got me into.)

A good game of D&D would certainly be better than that.

If the be all and end all of your life is "getting laid" I've got news for you... come closer... you're a FUCKING loser. Literally....

dice man

[foolAloof]

imho, dice man is the real world rpg. with board games and computer-aided simulations, player plays a role by immersing him/herself into the virtual world, whereas the diceman plays a role by living it. what can be more real than that?

nothing to do with a backlog, really ....

[Shaleh]

The book stores are glutted with D&D books. My read is they are just trying to move 'em. At least the couple here near me seem to have this problem.

Re:nothing to do with a backlog, really ....

[drgould]

The book stores are glutted with D&D books. My read is they are just trying to move 'em.

Maybe they should offer rebates.

Re:nothing to do with a backlog, really ....

[db10]

Of course not! It's a community service! (in some manner or form)

Re:nothing to do with a backlog, really ....

[AdamJ]

The book trade has returnability on almost everything in their store -- I'm quite sure that RPG books from WotC are included in this. If they think they have a glut of books, they just tell WotC that not only are they not paying for them, but they're going to ship them back, on WotC's dime.

Caveat!

[Regnard]

I've taken courses from the Barnes & Noble University and they usually "recommend" a book that goes along with their course, sort of like a textbook.

This may not totally affect the course itself but sometimes, the course material refers to the book.

Re:Caveat!

[Hannah E. Davis]

Of course, in this case, it'd be awfully hard to actually play D&D without a Player's Handbook at the very least. The course seems to be basically a guide to reading and understanding the PHB, so we can hardly fault them for saying "... and you might want to buy this book."

Granted, I use my DM's extras in my weekly game, but that's only because my own books are currently on the other side of the country.

You're utterly off-topic

[Anonymous Coward]

... and wrong to boot. Show me evidence of some sort of liberal bias at NPR that contradict's FAIR's analysis of NPR.

Re:You're utterly off-topic

[Anonymous Coward]

You want evidence that NPR is liberally biased?

Ok, try this website. Tons of examples.

Re:You're utterly off-topic

[Anonymous Coward]

Mussels Made Easy? Damn those Libruls, are there no depths to which they will not sink?

Re:You're utterly off-topic

[Anonymous Coward]

You want an answer to that in the age where if you oppose the president, who has passed the most liberal legislation in the past who-knows-how many years, you are considered liberal?

Hell, you'd probably find people calling George Will liberal because he doesn't like the president, and he's quite possibly the most conservative man on the planet.

Re:You're utterly off-topic

[Anonymous Coward]

And I'm just getting motion sickness from all the spin on this story. Ow, and this is just so painfully liberal, it hurts.

Although, this article does seem to be lacking a little, when they claim that most school districts in the United States are performing below the national average under No Child Left Behind. Now, I'm not supporting No Child Left Behind as it pretty much does nothing to solve any educational problems, but merely promotes teaching children how to take tests and punishes school districts which teach disadvantaged children, bit I'd be willing to bet that slightly under half the districts are under the national average, not the majority. In fact, the number of districts under the national average is probably pretty close to the number ABOVE the national average.

Re:You're utterly off-topic

[Anonymous Coward]

Although, this article does seem to be lacking a little, when they claim that most school districts in the United States are performing below the national average under No Child Left Behind.

The article claims no such thing. It clearly and unambigously refers to student performance in urban school districts, not in the United States as a whole.

"Nearly four years after the No Child Left Behind Act took effect, the nation's urban school districts have shown little benefit from the law [...]"

"[...] over the last two years most fourth- and eighth-graders in 11 city school districts made very modest progress in reading and math. And most continue to perform well below the national average."

It's ironic indeed to listen to you ramble on about eductional performance, when you failed to understand the point of a three paragraph article.

Re:You're utterly off-topic

[jdigriz]

Excuse me, spin? I was there when they redistricted Texas. I testified against it at the public hearings. They took existing districts that were massively opposed to being redistricted and essentially assigned them new representatives. The public comment at the hearings was 97% opposed. They had to schedule extra public hearings because there was so much outcry against it. The sponsor of the act, Phil King openly, admitted at the hearings that the only purpose of the redistricting was to generate more Republican representatives than they had been able to generate via the election. I was rather shocked by his forthrightness and had to give him credit for that at least, but clearly he had no compunctions or fears about overriding the will of the people as demonstrated by the election and the public hearings. Not one of the members of the redistricting committee were from anywhere near Travis County, yet they got to slice up Austin and the surrounding county into 5 separate "Perrymanders".

That sickness that you feel is not motion sickness but a sick feeling at the disregard for the democratic process. At least I would hope so. Real conservatives believe in the power of local control and the right of the voter to select their representatives, not the representatives to select their voters.

Re:You're utterly off-topic

[rsheridan6]

Most of NPR's content is completely non-political, and when they do politics they are usually balanced. Conservative columnist David Brooks is a regular commentator, for example.

Of course, to most people on the Right, anything that isn't a Republican version of Pravda is liberally biased.

Re:You're utterly off-topic

[Valdrax]

Hell, you'd probably find people calling George Will liberal because he doesn't like the president, and he's quite possibly the most conservative man on the planet.

Oh, sure. There are two reasons for this. The first is that there are legitimate issues on which some conservatives define themselves as conservatives whether most other people would consider them conservative at all. Some examples are, fiscal discipline against running up debts, border controls against immigration, protectionist trade policies, support for a national prescription drug benefit, other forms of corporate welfare, racial diverisity in his cabinet, etc. It all depends on what each person think a "true conservative" philosophy is. One not uncommon split would be over his links to the neocons. Neoconservativism was a perjorative invented in the time of the doves & hawks split in the Democratic Party during Vietnam to insult liberal hawks would had previously dominated party policy. Neocons didn't actually become conservative until the Reagan years. Some traditional conservatives still think of the neocons as "liberals."

The second reason is that a lot of conservatives define a liberal as anyone who disagrees with them. If they come to disagree with the President, it's cause he's too "liberal" for them. I remember a primary election in my state where two Republicans ran largely on platforms that the each other was a liberal even though both were arch-conservatives.

Re:You're utterly off-topic

[Valdrax]

Whoops. George Will, not George Bush. Strike the "his cabinet" and the whole comment still works.

Barnes & Noble..... University?

[Caspian]

Did I miss something? When did they get their own University?

Or is this kind of like "TD Waterhouse Center" or "Verizon Stadium", where a big company sponsors something and thus gets naming rights?

Re:Barnes & Noble..... University?

[redheaded_stepchild]

Well, I couldn't find a date on BNU, but I did find this:

Hamburger University ... Since 1961

Re:Barnes & Noble..... University?

[KiloByte]

Your spelling is wrong. It should be "Hamburger Universität". Or, "Hamburg University" or "University of Hamburg" if you use English.

Re:Life is a party, I wonder how I keep myself thi

[richdun]

Can I get a degree?

Nope, not from B&N, Amazon filed a patent yesterday for "a piece of paper denoting completion of a series of related educational courses with the intention of impressing those without said piece of paper to make more money than them. In another application, a collection of these pieces of paper are used to add every letter of the alphabet to the end of one's name, again in an attempt to compensate for inadequacies or impress those without the letters. When combined with user feedback and recommendations, a multi-million dollar 'non-profit' industry is created."

Can I test out?

[ThePuceGuardian]

Though I am very interested in taking the intermediate course: Finding A Game Group (That Doesn't Suck). Until then, all my books will just gather dust..

Re:Can I test out?

[Jesus_666]

If you don't mind playing at a REALLY slow pace, IRC can make for a good proximity substitute - finding interested players online is easier than finding them somewhere close to where you live. Unfortunately, IRC gaming is really slow-paced (which OTOH makes for great dialogues), which means that an adventure that'd take two weeks in real life can easily eat up the better part of a year. It's still better than not playing at all, though.

Shame on the submitter for this summary

[GroeFaZ]

There is not a single mentioning of the Pen and Paper nature of the RPGs TFA is talking about. I've been playing some of these myself, for years, but it actually took me a couple of sentences before I knew they TFS was not talking about character generation in computer games.

What you say? The "real world" in the headline should've ticked me off? Dude, to me, the opposite of "real world" has become "ISP down" or "some asshat roommate plugged me out of the LAN" or something to that effect.

Re:NPR's great reporting?

[StingRayGun]

Get over it. Just becuase your addicted to newsertainment in the form of Rush or Fox News doesn't mean you have to hate everybody else for enjoying actual in-depth reporting that doesn't owe their entire existance to corporations. NPR owes their entire existance to huh! OMG tax payers!

Seriously. Get over it. RTFA... I mean LTFA.

Re:Life is a party, I wonder how I keep myself thi

[uberdave]

You mean like all those Israelite slaves playing "Dungeon Draggin" back in the pyramid building days?

Oblig. Reno 911

[Anonymous Coward]

"Why did you shoot your friend with an arrow?"

"I didn't. He opened the chest and set off the arrow trap inside."

"Sir, did you shoot him with that arrow?"

"No, it was a trap on the chest. He failed his reflex save and was hit by it."

"Sir, he's bleeding."

"He shouldn't have failed his reflex save."

Re:Oblig. Reno 911

[Hinhule]

You mean this?

http://drunkstunts.com/site/gallery/displayimage.p hp?album=9&pos=30

When history looks back

[suso]

You know what? I think that DnD and the rest of RPGs will go on for a long time and eventually be an old pastime like playing chess, go or even Monopoly and Scrabble. When people read about the history of these RPG games, there will be a small note about its early history like this:

"When Dungeons and Dragons was originally released over 100 years ago, it caused quite a social stirring among parents concerned over their childrens activities. It was used as a scapegoat for otherwise normal social problems. Now its a game that is enjoyed by the whole family and is generally accepted as a great way to build many mental feats."

Re:When history looks back

[Anonymous Coward]

An except from "The Complete Loser Dictionary."

Re:When history looks back

[Zecritic]

But what mental feats are there? You roll the dice and use your imagination. I wasn't aware that imagining things takes significant mental skill.

Re:When history looks back

[suso]

I think that role playing games help you visualize space in your head as well as build vocabulary and reading skills. Maybe not so much when you are an adult. But when you are 13, you can become really engrossed in reading through players handbooks and so on and learn a lot of new words. Plus, it is a good practice of organizational skills. One of the little aspects I find enjoyable about playing RPGs is organizing everything.

Re:When history looks back

[Anonymous Coward]

Your life and how you treat ppl is an excerpt from the complete assholes dictionary .

Re:When history looks back

[Anonymous Coward]

"But what mental feats are there? You roll the dice and use your imagination. I wasn't aware that imagining things takes significant mental skill."

No, you would not be aware of things that take mental skill.

Re:When history looks back

[CableModemSniper]

But what mental feats are there?

See the Psionics Handbook for a list of feats a psionicist can take.

Scam?

[aj1]

Sure the 8 hour introductory course is free... But how much will the 80 hour Overcoming D&D addiction course cost? Sounds a lot like legal drugs too me! Of course who am I to say anything. This is one drug I use frequently.

Deja vu... the n00b

[Spy der Mann]

http://www.thenoobcomic.com.nyud.net:8090/daily/st rip002.html

Ditto

[TubeSteak]

While I realize this site is about news for nerds,
How does a title like RPGs In The 'Real World'
Not make you immediately think of things asploding?

http://science.howstuffworks.com/rpg.htm/printable
To keep this semi-ontopic, howstuffworks does discuss
RPG Basics
Tactics: How Are RPGs Used?
RPGs: The Future

The section on "Firing an RPG-7" might not be so applicable... but I bet it'll beat rolling a 20 sided dice any day.

Eye of the Beholder

[Spy der Mann]

Try downloading an abandonware called "Eye of the Beholder II". It's a wonderful game despites its low tech. It really gets you into the D&D mood.

Where are the Cheetos!?

[nmaster64]

How did they get through an article about "RPGs in the Real World" without mentioning LARPers? Come on, show those pitiful people some love...

...although I guess being a cosplayer myself I don't have room to talk...

Magic: the Gathering 4ever!

Re:Where are the Cheetos!?

[cdrdude]

Magic nerds unite... (I would be decent, but I like to have fun more than win)

My 2 Cents...

[funk49]

It's fine...learn2play n00b.

Re:My 2 Cents...

[patonw]

O RLY?

YA RLY!

Easy A

[Harker]

Having been playing D&D in one form or another for almost 30 years (possibly more), It should be easy to Ace this "class."

Actually, it might be cool to take it, since it concentrates on the 3rd edition rules, which I've not learned, even though I have the book.

H.

Re:Easy A

[Gramie2]

Well, aren't you special!

Did you have anything useful to add to the discussion, other than to tell us all how great you are?

I thought not.

Re:Easy A

[Anonymous Coward]

"possibly more?" D&D has barely been around for 30 years. That's like people who put "10 years of .NET experience" on their resume. (Or worse, recruiters looking for same)

As sad as it is...

[qaxzar]

I must say, im actualy excited. I have always wanted to play D&D but the groups here are rather exclusive and hard to get integrated with. I hear a rumor that in order to join, you have to roll seven natural twentys in a row!

Heh. LOAPING (Live-Action Role Playing)

[Venim]

My brother beats up people who LOAP in parking lots. Lots of fun. Its like a Live-Action First Person Kicking Some Guy's Ass Game :)

Re:Heh. LOAPING (Live-Action Role Playing)

[colbyucb]

How exactly do you get the acronym "LOAP" from "Live action Role Playing?" It's LARPing.

Re:Heh. LOAPING (Live-Action Role Playing)

[Venim]

close enough. its not like i'm the one going out to parking lots to beat up larpers lol. although it would be fun assuming theres even people who play games where i live

Second That

[queenb**ch]

I've been part of a couple of clans, but they're now defunct. The groups that manage to stay together are "rah-rah, aren't we grand" kind of groups. They inflate numbers by counting everyone that's ever gamed with them as "a member" even though many of the people haven't shown up for an event in months. The ones that do play for fun don't seem to last. I think that they usually run out of steam because the founders lack org skills.

Added to the thing, good DM's are hard to come by. How about a class or two in DM training? How much fun are these noobs going to have if they get some crappy DM? A good DM is about 80% story teller, 10% rule-manager, and 10% parent-figure.

2 cents,

Queen B

Re:Second That

[BobBobBobBobBob]

All they'd teach in a DM class is how to run a game from a purchased module.

Can't have people making up their own worlds, it would eat into the profit margin.

Re:Second That

[pugugly]

Yeah - Good DM's are rarities. I've been fortunate enough to know some fine DM's/GM's that can do good charcter development without going into a Monty Haul campaign. It's far too easy to give away the store in most RPG's.

Pug

In the real world...

[rossdee]

An RPG is a shoulder-launched unguided anti-tank rocket of soviet russian design. It won't do much to an M1 Abrams, but will take out a HumVee.

And back in the dark ages of computing there was a programming language called Report Program Generator (RPG)

This post bought to you on behalf of the Association for the Abolition of Ambighous Acronyms (AAAA)

Re:In the real world...

[Marful]

Since we are on a tangental topic about unrelated TLA's I thought I'd add some info about the acronym for "HumVee". Which is "HMMWV" or High Mobility Multipurpose Wheeled Vehicle http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMMWV Which makes a really nice ETLA.

Re:In the real world...

[marquis-cablewitch]

I'm just going to mention that the AAAA needs unambiguousing as well! Authorization,Authentication and AccountingARCHitecture research group

Re:In the real world...

[plibnik]

Are you sure? I've heard that one of M1 Abrams in Iraq was taken out by RPG from the back, where it has the least armour.

Re:In the real world...

[CableModemSniper]

And back in the dark ages of computing there was a programming language called Report Program Generator (RPG)

I know some people who are still in those Dark Ages

Press Release

[Lord_Dweomer]

As much as I love D&D, this is nothing more than a Barnes and Noble press release. Of course, the more people who play it the better, but I just want to call em as I see em.

Now, one of the things I've been wondering is...since I just left college last year, and am now in "the real world" with a job and very little free time (most of which isn't free due to fun chores), I've found myself losing most of my interest in D&D in favor of computer RPGs that give me more bang for my buck time wise.

Can anybody recommend any solutions for adult gamers with little to no free time and not nearly as many people in their group as they used to have? I have a couple people who would want to play, but it might be a sporadic monthly thing at best.

Re:Press Release

[Anonymous Coward]

Get Neverwinter Nights (from Bioware) a software implementation of D&D. Find people to play with at NeverwinterConnections.com.

Re:Press Release

[MrResistor]

I have a couple people who would want to play, but it might be a sporadic monthly thing at best.

So go with that. If you only play once a month or so, so what, as long as you enjoy it. I've got characters I play maybe once every year or two, but I still enjoy it on those rare occasions. The only real trick is the recordkeeping: not just taking notes on things that your character did or might remember, but also keeping all that stuff where you can find it again when the time comes.

Another good solution that some of my friends have come up with is sort of a non-campaign: basically a series of one-offs with continuing characters. Anyone who has an idea for a quick game can run, and anyone available can play. I don't think that would work well in a strongly "leveled" game like D&D, as someone who misses a couple games would fall seriously behind. FWIW, we used a modified version of the old White Wolf system, but there are plenty of alternatives.

Re:Press Release

[Deekin_Scalesinger]

Mod this noble parent up, and I will second his opinion.

Re:don't get ahead of yourselves

[Z34107]

Liberate the proletariat! Peace, Land, Bread! All power to the Soviets! Long live Red October and the Bolshevik revolution!

And, by the way, of the two extremes, Clinton was more totalitarian in expanding the powers of government than he was anarchist.

Remember, since you already modded the parent down, modding me down too would be redundant. :D

It's 2005, already. D&D?

[Animats]

What next, "Roller Disco for Beginners"?

I'm sorry, what?

[Xytheril]

The title is RPGs in the Real World. I thought the real world WAS an RPG where you are your character and you only get to play it once.

Seems like a no-brainer to me

[nixkuroi]

With so many people turning from books to video games - particularly fantasy games based on Dnd and Tolkien, it makes perfect sense that a book store would turn to the most popular fantasy rpg as a natural market. With Dnd, you need at least 3 books to play (player's handbook, dungeon master's guide, monster manual) and once you get into those, there are about 20 other books (all costing between 20 and 40 bucks) that you can buy if you dig it. All that and you're capturing part of a market that's already into the genre and new players that are interested in investigating the roots of WoW - not to mention the poor kids and kids who're grounded from their video games.

I'd look for them to ramp this up. Heck...I'd be surprised if they didn't create gaming areas and offer some discounts to gamers who play there. How convenient would it be to duck out of the game and buy a monster manual 2 if you needed something new?

Hard core dnd players will never leave for video games (at least permanantly). All they need to do is keep some stick ups around for the gamer funk.

Re:Seems like a no-brainer to me

[Sector Bug]

It certainly makes sense to sell books. Though I disagree with those 3 being required to play. A player really only needs the Player's Handbook. Not that most don't have more. And there are other supplemental books that can be usefull to both the player and the DM, though not required.

What would they look like?

[dmuth]

Would RPG games "in the real world" look anything like this?

Re:RPGs in the real world?

[Anonymous Coward]

Blah Blah Blah IRAQ Blah Blah Blah!
Bet I got your attention didn't I? Can we please think about the soldiers!!! Now I have to go put several more ribbon shaped stickers on my SUV to feel better.

FFS - What next

[craznar]

Klingon courses, WoW Gold on eBay and courses in Role Playing.

Is there a US University offering wanking courses - get these guys to teach.

Jeez!!!!

Re:FFS - What next

[zwei2stein]

Really? its already here:

http://sexylosers.com/231.html

even i admit- role playing is fun!

[RevAaron]

I always thought gaming (RPGing, role playing) wouldn't really be much fun. Especially considering, I'm really not into fantasy at all. I think most of it is cheesy as hell and pretty lame. But I thought "what the hell!" when a friend wanted to initiate me and my also non-rpging girlfriend into the wide world of gaming. I figured it'd be a good way to learn the ropes before I found some other folks to play a less dorky tabletop rpg like the Babylon 5 or Star Wars RPG, or hell even Star Trek or anything else more sci-fi than wizards, elves and orcs.

But, it turns out, gaming is fun, and so far I've found it fun even when the actual subject matter of the fictional universe isn't my thing. I've played some Vampire - The Masquerade and PlaneScape/DND 3.5. Both have been a blast, much to my honest surprise. So, even for you types out there that may think you're "above" the cheesiness of fantasy or even both fantasy and science fiction, give it a chance.

So... yeah. I reccomend trying it. I just hope you don't get spoiled by playing with some anal retentive person who is obsessed about being 100% in character and having every word float past your lips be part of the role play. I know not everyone is in my camp, but I'm of the mind that an activity like gaming should be about fun- the fun of telling a story with a few friends over a few beers, some laughs and some clever tricks- not work or stick-in-butt sort of stuff. To each her own, but for a n00b, try to find someone more light harded. :)

Re:even i admit- role playing is fun!

[Jesus_666]

Besides, D&D is not the be-all-end-all of roleplaying*. For example, Shadowrun is a good choice if you don't want to play in a clichéd pseudo-medieval world - the fact that your character can throw fireballs is nice, but it doesn't quite impress the flame-resistant sentry gun aiming at you. You can play a secret agent or the baddest mutha on the block or a delivery guy with an autocannon mounted on his car. If you want to your character can run around with a cyber-torso with chrome finishing and an open hawaii shirt. Probably the gratest thing about Shadowrun is that it gives you full control over your character's style. Hell, if you want to play a dwarf with a neon green afro, blinking cybernetic eyes and a penchant for rocket launchers nothing except the GM will stop you. Or you run around with a bow and arrows filled with a plastic explosive, giggling every time you hear an explosion. Or you play a civil servant gone bad, armed with a pumpgun and his enemies' death certificates (filled out in triplicate). Try that with D&D.


* Actually, I'd call it the stereotypical role-playing game that I wouldn't want to be caught dead with. Over here in Germany we have a similar but different default system, which features an extremely detailed world and a nice way of handling skill checks. Unfortunately it's also very good-vs-evil-centric and the fourth edition (the first one also released in English) suffers from skill cancer, giving you a selection of about 200 skills which your character can have, including separate skills for stuff like attacking from behind. A common joke among TDE players is that the fifth edition will include skills for "walking up stairs" and "walking down stairs", with separate skills for wooden and stone stairs. Don't play this with unmodified rules.

Re:even i admit- role playing is fun!

[Anonymous Coward]

You thought D&D was dorky so you wanted to role-play Babylon 5?

I find this very ironic...

[JoshWurzel]

...because when I was in high school (when I got into D&D), Barnes & Noble refused to sell D&D books. Something about kids on acid playing D&D and killing someone, I think.

Oddly interesting that they don't support Linux

[GrueMaster]

Their online course doesn't list Linux in the system requirements. Interesting, considering how many D&D computer literate players are also Linux buffs. They almost are synonymous. It should work on Linux, though. Java, Netscape, Shockwave Flash. I'm online at the University of Phoenix (actual degree courses), and I can get their Windows loving crap to run on Linux most of the time.

Re:Oddly interesting that they don't support Linux

[Anonymous Coward]

WotC had a BB poll going (while it lasted, as polls are not allowed there) and only about 3% were using linux, which was actually a suprise for me as I thought more would be using linux as well.

Re:Oddly interesting that they don't support Linux

[iq in binary]

They almost are synonymous.

That is about the biggest stereotype I've ever heard. Of all the people I've crawled with, only ONE, I repeat ONE of them even knew what Linux was. He so happened to hate it's guts and even snears at me for having turned my gaming computer into a SuSe box even tho I woop his ass at every game we play; while running Linux.

I've played dice games with many, many people, most of them were hardly computer literate. Even more of them are of the assumption that Windows is the only important part of their computer. Playing a tabletop RPG does not a techie make ;)

Is It So Wrong?

[Anonymous Coward]

In [Robert Siegel] opinion, there are many reasons why you shouldn't buy items or power-leveled characters.

1. I like how the fact that my dad does not have 200 million dollars in his bank account affect me in anyway in this virtual world, unlike Real Life where background DOES make a difference.

2. CHEATER!!

3. It's just FOR FUN!!!

I am not going to use my REAL money to buy FAKE money. Someone please pet me on the head for not violating the god-send EULA.

and blah blah blah and yah, that's the summary.

What a whiner- as any economist can tell you, a product's worth is arbitary. That means if enough people agree that a certain thing is worth that much money, no matter if it is a pet rock or Elvis' personnal toilet sitter, it will worth that much in the market.

Re:Life is a party, I wonder how I keep myself thi

[servasius_jr]

I thought DND was something that 'happened' to you? Like an anti-choice.

Only if you fail your saving throw.

I'm auctioning my account

[Khashishi]

Khashishi (775369) Level ??? Nerd Karma: Excellent starting bid, 400 Zorkmids

Re:I'm auctioning my account

[Anonymous Coward]

AC bids 410 Zks.

RPGs vs MMOs

[yoshi_mon]

I realize that the OP is not really trying to draw any similarities between RPGs and MMORPGs but this is something I've been thinking about for a while now that I've had my 1st experience with a MMORPG; that being WoW.

MMORPGs are not really RPGs in much the same way that driving a car simulator is not the same as actually driving a car. A lot of the elements are present in the simulator but a large number are still missing.

This is not to say that MMORPGs aren't fun or don't have a place, but the more I've played WoW the more I find myself not really playing a RPG but more of an RPG simulator. Sure at times it feels like I'm playing an RPG but then I go and play something like Gothic, a good NWN module, etc and I'm reminded of all the elements I'm missing in that MMO.

For the record, yeah I cut my teeth back in the day on PnP AD&D, Carwars, Star Frontiers, along with a number of others. I won't even deny that a PnP RPG is the "true" RPG vs a CRPG but for me the convenience factor of being able to play around my schedule is key.

In closing I just wanted to put this out there since it was on my mind and this thread seemed as good a place as any. WoW bashing and it's flaws has it's place but that is not what I'm going for here, rather just wanted to make the observation that there is a hierarchy of RPG elements among the types.

Our Gaming group is all professionals

[joelsanda]

Our D&D gaming group, which meets every two weeks, is comprised of people with the following day jobs:

• Mental Health Therapist
• Software Analyst/Designer
• Finance Group V.P.
• Two software developers
• Asst. Attorney General
• Paralegal

I'm glad to see D&D becoming more mainstream. It was a haven from a rather boring world as a child, and as an adult is a haven from a rather boring world ;-) There were two women in the group - but one had to leave to finalize her job search (she's a professor of law).

Re:Our Gaming group is all professionals

[FPCat]

Are you sure you aren't just in group therapy?

RPGs and Muds are "Real World"

[lloy0076]

I play the MUD Achaea and have been doing so for about a year and a half now. During that time I've risen from a mere young adventurer to a Ministerial position in my city and a reasonably high rank in my Order.

It is so easy to see people who have never played an RPG:

• They talk l1k3 l33t haXX0rs
• They talk about things like keyboards and Internet

I don't know about other people "playing the game" but I certainly try to stay in character, at least in public. When I am "in character", the world is very real to me. The characters are very real, the people are very real and I actually look on my "alter ego" as being me.

RPGs do have a different frame of mind than first person, shoot'em up type games. I can see that a course introducing people about RPGs would be very useful whether they're D&D in "real life" or MUDs in "cyber space".

Re:Life is a party, I wonder how I keep myself thi

[Anonymous Coward]

a multi-million dollar 'non-profit' industry is created."

Try multi-trillion :)

"Barnes & Noble University"

[Anonymous Coward]

Tell you what, "Barnes & Noble University".
Throw in those three books for free and I'll think about it.

+5 Insightful

[earnest murderer]

Didn't see that one comming now did you.

Re:RPGs in the real world?

[FidelCatsro]

President Bush and the quest for the Holy WMD .

I shall study that more once I get my +5 Vorpal PHD

Re:Life is a party, I wonder how I keep myself thi

[jellybear]

I always thought those dreidels were cool

Mod parent up!

[ggvaidya]

The video is teh funny!

D&D University, eh?

[cyranix]

no offense to D&D players... But uhh... Do you really need 'education' to play D&D? Seriously... Forrest Gump could figure it out.

Re:D&D University, eh?

[munehiro]

Forrest Gump could figure it out.

what about interpreting a Int 22 Level 20 archmage ?

i'm not kidding... i have a level 19 cleric. I renounced to play her at epic levels. When you are a low level character, you can administer pretty well everything, but as the level becomes higher, using all the feats, spells, magical object, all the modifiers and prestige class feats become really complex to manage at the right moment, even for a long time player like me.

Re:D&D University, eh?

[cyranix]

I think the more pertinent point is that its not knowledge that fuels the game, it is imagination. If one requires schooling or education in order to use imagination, the game is wasted. If all you can see are the numbers, you fail to respect the ultimate entertainment of the game. I do not play D&D, and other than sitting in on maybe a few games in old memory, I will admit I am probably the least qualified person I know of to reflect on the game, however, I do play many games, and I see the same problem across the board. People no longer play games for the simple purpose of entertainment, or even just the benefit of spending time with friends... Why does everything have to come to some kind of competition that requires years of training and focus? Can't we just play games and have fun without all the hype?

Re:D&D University, eh?

[munehiro]

I think the more pertinent point is that its not knowledge that fuels the game, it is imagination.

i strongly agree.

People no longer play games for the simple purpose of entertainment, or even just the benefit of spending time with friends... Why does everything have to come to some kind of competition that requires years of training and focus? Can't we just play games and have fun without all the hype?

I'm a interpreting player. I like interpretation and all my characters have a fine background story and a long term mission. I don't care of fighting with monster, or to level up my character in efficient ways. Unfortunately, I'm not the average player. Most of the D&D players are constantly looking for optimization, higher and powerful classes, and they don't care on how their character behaves. They just want to kill monsters. gain experience. level up.

The problem, imho, is twofold: first, the game engine. D&D core rulebook is focused on this gamestyle. You fight monster and you gain experience by defeating them. Also, there's absolutely no need to do interpretation in order to play. Last but not least, most of the expansions to the core books provide new prestige classes (some of them are really powerful) and also the campaigns are mostly focused on defeating some entity by direct fight. Players went along this guideline focusing on how to kill the next monster, rather on how to produce a good gaming experience trying to obtain a permission from the King to have a big party with all the citizens in the city square.

second, average players grow up with the computer RPG model, that again enhances a XP-per-kill point of view. So, Wizard of the Coast(TM) simply gives people what people want, and since you can't play D&D alone, most of the time I'm forced to play with people who don't like interpretation, considering it almost a waste of time. Very frustating, but since i like fantasy I can't drop the ball and go playing something else.

D&D is becoming more and more commercial. Attracting more people, this is the result: you need to be great, you need to fight and defeat, everything else is useless. Probably interpretative people will move to the GURPS engine, but as far as i saw the engine is quite tricky and you have no Forgotten Realms(TM) for GURPS. And as usual, you can't play all by yourself.

More people should play RPGs

[LainTouko]

When played properly, roleplaying games are the best way to practice empathy that I know of. Pretending to be a variety of different people means that in real life, you consider how other people might feel about something you do far more naturally. The people in the RPG society at university I went to were some of the nicest people one could hope to meet. As well as being generally very intelligent and imaginative, of course.

Re:don't get ahead of yourselves

[Anonymous Coward]

So the Big Dog increased the size of the goverment because he was an anarchist? I'm guessing that Dubya invaded Iraq because he is a pacifist.

Re:RPGs in the real world?

[Forbman]

Yes, especially as how they're still being made and developed in Russia (or Ukraine), who are more than happy to sell them to whomever is willing to pay them, and they continue to develop them. They now make several different (and suprising...) models, including one that has an IR seeker head (hint: Blackhawk Down). I wouldn't be suprised that there aren't a few former Spetznaz and other skilled former USSR special forces soldiers who are earning more than a few extra dollars as "technical consultants" helping Al Queso et al build better mouse traps that blow up Humvees... The RPG-7 is not a weapon system to be dismissed.

Much like how Russia is a US "ally" in the War On Terror (insert ominous music), yet is more than willing to sell (and help build) nuke stuff to Iran (hey, weren't they doing this with Iraq too?).

At least in Russia's schizoid world, the irony for everyone else is that some of the stuff they do sell to whomever is coming right back at them in Chechnya. Don't see too many "terrorists" arming up with M-16s, do you? Nope. AK-47s, RPG-7s and AK-74. And I would think that most of the Stinger missiles that we sold to the Mujahadeen to get the commies out of Afghanistan have been used, either actually fired or disassembled to use their warheads and motors hacked for other unintended consequences.

Real world RPGs - a cruel awakening for geeks

[Anonymous Coward]

In real world an RPG is a 4 foot long tube with two handles attached and a conical projectile sticking out of the end. It is worn by people who call themselves "taleban". They use it to eliminate infidels, zionists and crusaders in support of the sacred cause of sheik Osama bin Laden and mullah Muhammad Omar.

Only interesting thing was the gold graph...

[garylian]

The article wasn't "must read". It was pretty much common sense that most folks have figured out long ago. About the only interesting thing in the whole thing was the WoW gold vs. real world price graph, and that was only cool because I won't want to waste my time doing the research necessary to create the darn thing.

If a game has an economy, folks are going to abuse it. It is almost typical nowadays to covet items in games, instead of wanting to have the satisfaction of earning it. At low levels, it can make sense to slip that new toon a little gold and let them get some better equipment. I've taken my lvl 60 rogue through Deadmines at least a dozen times, getting some nice gear for a new toon I am creating. At high levels though, just go out and earn it. It's why you play the game: to level up, see places, and get better gear.

Many games today are just awful for that. Seeing a new EQ (first version) walking around with nearly maxed out stats because someone threw 50K plat at it was just silly. And, it forces the game creators to modify how they approach the game's future development, as well as forcing them to retro-fit the older portions of the game.

Encounters have to be made harder for lower level areas, because the characters are tougher than they should be. By the time Planes of Power (PoP) came out for EQ, it was extremely difficult to be a new-to-EQ player, unless you had friends that would shower you with gifts. It was even harder than EQ was when it first came out, when a full set of Bronze armor made you feel like you were getting somewhere. Because now, that full set of Bronze wasn't good enough to keep you alive.

But many players don't care about that. We live in the era of entitlization, where folks think they deserve to be able to have a character with godly gear on it from the outset. How dare developers put level limits on gear, and restrict access to places based on levels!

I guess that's why I went back and started playing CoH/CoV again. Sure, it's often repetitive, but no economy to really abuse, so it's quieter.

Re:RPGs in the real world?

[Anonymous Coward]

>I wouldn't be suprised that there aren't a few former Spetznaz and other skilled former USSR special forces soldiers who are earning more than a few extra dollars as "technical consultants" helping Al Queso et al build better mouse traps that blow up Humvees...

Al-Q terrorists was trainded by CIA to fight Soviet army in Afghan War.
http://www.globalissues.org/Geopolitics/MiddleEast /TerrorInUSA/Anatomy.asp
http://www.ratical.org/ratville/JFK/JohnJudge/link scopy/RSblowback.html

Now U.S. troops in Iraq and Russian troops in Chechnya has problems with this Al-Q fighters.

>They now make several different (and suprising...) models, including one that has an IR seeker head (hint: Blackhawk Down).

RPG with IR seeker head does not exist.

>Much like how Russia is a US "ally" in the War On Terror (insert ominous music), yet is more than willing to sell (and help build) nuke stuff to Iran (hey, weren't they doing this with Iraq too?).

Where is Iraq nukes? Show us plz.

Re:RPGs in the real world?

[Aaron England]

An RPG with a IR seeker head is called a MANPAD. And the Russians have been producing them for decades. They are called SA-7's 14's 16's and 18's.

That ain't real life!!

[tranquillity]

Real real life ist LARP (Life Action Role Playing)! Forget about sitting around a table ...

Re:Life is a party, I wonder how I keep myself thi

[uberdave]

Gimel, Gimel, always gets?

Okay, fine.... I'll be a dwarf

[Anonymous Coward]

but my name is Carlos.

Carlos the Dwarf.

Re:Life is a party, I wonder how I keep myself thi

[jellybear]

Better than rolling a d4

Just selling books

[levt]

The course doesn't sound like much but an attempt to sell books. You're probably just better off borrowing the manual (or buying it the cheapest place you can find it) and reading it yourself. Hell, you'd probably even be better off if all you ever did was play a classic ad&d computer rpg like Eye of the Beholder (EOB).