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Boing Boing Threatened By Software Creator
mfh writes "StarForce has issued threats to Boing Boing's Cory Doctorow in retaliation to Cory's post about the anti-copy malware that installs itself along with many popular (and unpopular) video games." From the BoingBoing post: "Yesterday, I posted about StarForce, a harmful technology used by game companies to restrict their customers' freedom. StarForce attempts to stop game customers from copying their property, but it has the side-effects of destabilizing and crashing the computers on which it is installed. Someone identifying himself as 'Dennis Zhidkov, PR-manager, StarForce Inc.' contacted me this morning and threatened to sue me, and told me that he had contacted the FBI to complain about my 'harassment.'"
Well, I hope other companies dont find out about resellerratings... or the amazon.com reviews... or um just about anything lol.
He contacted the FBI?
Well, there's only one response to this nut. Laugh at him because he obviously doens't have a clue as to how to bring legal action against you.
That's right, folks. Criticism is harassment. It's no longer voicing an opinion. The press' right to inform the consumer and raise awareness about problems no longer exists. At least, that's how these guys would like it to be. What we need is a way for judges to penalize plaintiffs if they are clearly attempting to infringe on the rights of others for their own gain, as the case would appear here.
120 characters for a sig? That's bloody useless.
When companies realise they are copy protecting themselves out of business, maybe others will learn from their mistakes and not treat every paying customer like a thief.
Bravo for posting information on this - the public needs more information to make educated choices.
Your PR people should not be whackjobs. I mean, come on, this is the standard MO of a 17 year old spammer. At least make him have to run all of his communiques through Legal.
In this lawsuit-happy corporate world, this guy is only threatening to sue? I don't think he has a toe to stand on.
Uncensored Google results requested and delivered by email
Where's the company web site? How else can we slashdot them? C'mon! Someone dig it up! I've got an itchy mouse button.
Cory Doctorow publishes an opinion and then someone called 'Dennis Zhidkov' runs to the FBI and makes claims about harassment. WTF
In either case, here at Microsoft, we feel standards are important. And we have fun, too. Doug Mahugh, Microsoft
Popular???
Rather: It won't make StarForce any more unpopular, as their popularity hit rock bottom already.
The moon is not fully subjugated. I demand a second assault wave preceded by a massive nuclear bombardment.
Sorry. That was me. My Troll Tuesday antics got a little out of hand and I started calling everyone in my address book (Lycos People Search) and threatening to sue for unspecified amounts under the DMCA just to make a point. You can disregard the call. Sometimes a joke CAN go too far, can't it? ;P
-"...bad old ideas look confusingly fresh when they are packaged as technology" - Jaron Lanier (Digital Maoism on Edge.o
If nothing else, cartooneys are good for plenty of laughs.
Lacking <sarcasm> tags,
This is a classic SLAPP technique http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SLAPP
One nice thing is that states like California have fairly strong anti Slapp laws and lawyers that specialize in this sort of case
I used to have a cool sig, back when I cared
Smile, you're on Slashdot: http://icoc.freehomepage.com/contact.html
Sun and Fun
People will buy until they know. Look around amongst your peers, mention "Sony rootkit" or "DRM" and check how many blank stares you receive.
Yes, WE know it. Now. Thanks for posting. But we already knew. We already take care of our computers. We already check on CDs if they are REALLY CDs. We already make sure that our Games don't hassle us with "I don't wanna run as long as you have that CD Emu soft running".
But we don't count, folks. We are a minority. We think before we act. And most of all, we think before we buy.
We're a small minority. We don't count.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Honestly, it sounds and reads like boing boing is just reporting the facts. Nothing more.
Software is written that destabilizes a system, causes a crash and could potentially damage hardware.
What am I missing?
Threaten to involve or claim to involve the FBI (Cybercrime)? Really, I swore they had better things to do than investigate petty sites using legally protected free speech to label corporate interests as having malicious intent with their product. Like, I dunno. Child Porn? I hope so.
And then, of course, comes the OMG LAWSUIT brigade, claiming libel and slander when, again, opinions of a entities buisness practices are protected free speech...Hoping to tie up critics in a huge and costly (in the short term) legal battle to silence them. (PriceRitePhoto scandal, anyone?)
It just goes to show the sort of people behind this company that, instead of making logical arguments against their critics, they choose to take the 'dirty route' with the aforementioned threats...360, Claira, Jack Thompson, PriceRitePhoto..
I really, really, really hope someone gets up the gonads to take one of these foolish corporations, PARTICULARY so a adware/spyware corporation or someone with similar malicious intent to court when they issue a groundless Cease and Desist in a attempt to hold face and further their own intent.
Fin.
"Bill Gates" is an anagram for "libel stag". Hope that helps :)
that Boris Zhidkov didn't contact the russian mob... :)
Maybe that CEO thought that he could bully them around a bit and make the negative press disappear. After all it is probably his ass/job on the line.
Why this id10t call himself CEO is a wonder to me. Anybody with two braincells would have known how his actions could backfire badly. But then again, the company makes software that works against their users, so they cannot be too smart anyway.
This space is intentionally staring blankly at you
I hope these guys are in a state with anti-SLAPP legislation, so Cory can go after them if they do file suit.
List of games they fucked up:o unt=205
http://fileforums.com/showpost.php?p=299834&postc
courtesy of http://www.fileforums.com/showthread.php?t=70333
This controversy is good. Games must be stopped from installing code which runs with kernel or administrator privileges. That's introducing too many security holes now, by preventing users from running as a nonprivileged user. Users can't lock down their machines and still run games. That's no longer acceptable.
Even if it is, posting an blog-like article that is critical of them surely could not be called harassment - standing outside their offices yelling abuse and pushing dog shit through their letter box could be, however.
He sounds like a whack-job to me.
You know, there's a lot to be said about being an "Anonymous Coward".
Consider the following: Provide all the proof of your allegations, but do so in an anonymous manner (e.g., Mixminion).
There is one inescapable truth: If you are truly anonymous, then you are lawsuit proof.
This is the point where you start apologizing profusely, because as the Sony incident showed us, everyone just loves hidden DRM.
"Must get moose and squirrel, Boing Boing is a moosey/squirrey sound"
I'm a fiscal conservative, it's a pity we don't have a political party anymore
The Heroes of Might and Magic V public beta is protected by starforce, which is unfortunate since it worked in Wine on Linux up until they added Starforce... Ubisoft just lost me and most likely any other Heroes fans that run Linux, who would of been able to buy and run the game otherwise.
Starforce causes more harm than good, and I believe gamers have to show their dismay by simply not buying games with it. Hopefully if the sales are hurt enough, game publishers will stop using this "protection" and we can finally put a bullet in it. Unfortunately too many people who buy games don't realize the game is protected by this, and might just be blaming Windows for their computer's crashes.
does this sounds peculiarly like Jack Thompson tactics?
upon the advice of my lawyer, i have no sig at this time
The more I read crap like this, the more I'm glad I've pretty much stopped buying video games. Oh, I admit, it's not strictly because of this bullshit ( although it does play a large part of it. Who wants to go research to find out if the game you want to buy has intrusive copy protection? ), games in general have stopped being interesting.
Give me back the days of Sam and Max. Grim Fandago. Even the old wing commanders were good games.
Were I in the game industry, I would be very careful about what i put my customers through. And I'd be irritated to no end for other companies doing this, as they scare potential customers ( like myself ) away.
Mod me down with all of your hatred and your journey towards the dark side will be complete!
That may explain why some people here might be puzzled to notice that geeks are among the most fervent supporters of DRM, copy-protection, spyware and other restrictive technologies. Witness the many gamers who have StarForce installed on their systems. Witness the many iTunes lovers (myself included) who've bought into the DRMed songs Apple offers.
It's sad to realize that we are heading straight into a DRM/copy-protection nightmare, and the worst part is that we're fully aware where we're going. Gamers are leading the way. They seem to be fully content to have anti-copying and anti-cheating software running in the background while they play World of Warcraft or Half-Life. It seems that these companies are using our geek tendencies (must...play...new...game!) against us. Is this the beginning of the end of our freedom on the net?
Electric Monkey Pants
The Senate just confirmed Alito to the SCOTUS.
That might actually be the mentality that we're stuck with for the next 50 years...
--- Grow a pair, liberals... stop letting the Republicans bully you!
NT
...posted about StarForce, a harmful technology used by game companies to restrict their customers' freedom. StarForce attempts to stop game customers from copying their property, but it has the side-effects of destabilizing and crashing the computers on which it is installed.
If I told you once, I have told you a thousand times - NEVER mess with STAR FORCE!
He who knows best knows how little he knows. - Thomas Jefferson
This is not a smart move from StarForce, and it seems it's not the first time it reacts aggressively to critics to their software. This episode will bring much (bad!) pubilicity to StarForce, in my opinion. Instead of suing people that critize it's software, they should be worrying with law suits from people that discover what StarForce does to their systems. Hope this is the beginning of the end to StarForce!!!
denis.zhidkov@star-force.com
If you do a Google search for his name, you'll see this isn't the first time this dude has done something like this. He's also based in Moscow, so I don't see exactly how he "contacted the FBI" or why they would care.
Because the FBI takes a dim view of assholes wasting their time on civil matters the FBI couldn't possibly get involved in even if they wanted to.
I've yet to see someone claim to have "contacted the FBI" who actually did, after being read the riot act.
Boing Boing might in fact have a strong case vs Starforce here. Precedent was set by Kyle Bennett of HardOCP when he successfully defended vs Infinium Labs last year. I think what won him the case was his freedom of press rights. I wonder if Boing Boing could countersue for slander as Starforce contests his journalistic integrity.
America has never been truly capitalistic.
That's a pretty clumsy attempt at a troll.
I read the internet for the articles.
Ladies and gentlemen, we have our Industry Plant for this thread. Sheesh, your post was way too obvious, at least try and hide it.
Check out http://www.star-force.com/protection.phtml?c=261&i d=707 for a claim that star force makes. They say if you can prove that their software causes the noted problems with dvd drives they will give you $10,000. Not that I believe they would actually pay you, or would expect anybody to travel to Moscow to do it, but it's pretty funny.
nothing
Wow, can you say "astroturf comment"? Either that or troll, not sure which. Anyway, I'll bite:
If there have been documented cases of it causing problems, then it doesn't really matter if there have been other cases where it was fine. Even if only 10% of end users see problems, don't you think everyone still would like to know about it, so they can make informed decisions?
Or, to put in another, more emotionally charged frame: If there was a baby-food that worked fine most of the time, but in 10% of cases caused the baby to explode violently, don't you think people (particularly potential customers) should be told that there were risks? Just because someone could say "well, MY baby didn't explode" would not somehow absolve the company of responsability of the 10% that did.
Try and see both sides of the argument before naturally attacking people who just don't want to see their work stolen.
I don't think the argument is "Useful program vs. libelous thieves," I think it is "Annoying copy protection vs. free speech."
As a side note, a software program can work fine on one computer and cause problems on another. It's one thing if the program generally does something of value for the consumer, it's quite another when the consumer would rather have it disappear completely.
In a Free market, citizens are free to not purchase the products they don't like. They are free to find alternatives. This is capatlism at work: sharing information about a company so that others can make decisions as to whether they want to purchase a companies products. Nothing in Capitism says that a person must purchase a product: a free market ensures this isn't the case. We love Capitilism because it empowers the citizen, and removes powers from the institutions. Institutions are empowered when there are monopolies: in that case, if StarFart software was one, it might force us into using their software, and we would have a much harder time dealing with them.
The company doing the threatening is in Russia! That means they are godless red commies, working to undermine the US freedom of speech and bring communism to the US. Supporting commies in anything they do makes you a terrorist! You even allude to "red-blooded" americans! My blood ain't red like you commie freaks, it's red, white, and blue. ...and keep your damn flouride out of my water supply you commie!
There are some games on that list I might have wanted to buy... Not now. This copy protection scheme is an anti feature to me. AKA it makes the game not worth buying.
You want to stop it? Flood the publisher of these games with email telling them that you will not buy games with this use this DRM.
They have the right to put it on and we have the right not to buy.
See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
I found a comment "Dennis Zhidkov" made to C-Net interesting:
"Now, let me ask you a question. If you are not a pirate, why would you need a debugger simultaneously running with the protected software? It is in the interest of the developer to keep the debuggers and emulators out of business when the protected application is run."
Apparently he's never heard of decal for Asheron's Call. I'm sure a debugger (or something) was needed to find the memory locations it needed to integrate with the game properly. I'm sure some WoW "plugins" work the same way.
Am I suddenly a pirate because I want to use third party plugins for a game I legally own (and pay a monthly fee to play?!)(note, I no longer play AC and have never played WoW, I only used them as examples).
bork bork bork!
...I look forward to watching Cory tear this Zhidkov guy a new one.
How does one violate _approximately_ 11 international laws?
Jeez, if you're going to bully people with legal threats at least make them long, with intimidating legal letterhead and scary pronouncements like, "you are in violation of statute 3 subsection q9 of the corndogian legal code, punishable by forced ingestion of flaming crickets."
The quality of legal threats really has gone downhill in the last few years.
What about shipping software into the US that deliberately opens security holes? Doesn't that constitute some sort of cyberterrorism?
Read the article (unless you're just trolling, in which case "well done".)
Cory criticized the side-effects of the copy prevention software. He didn't say companies shouldn't be able to use copy prevention, just that they shouldn't damage the security of your computer.
The person who threatened vague legal action is attempting to stop reasonable comment simply because it would damage his business.
Ever since I heard about some of the random issues caused by Starforce a few years back, I've always avoided any game title under it's protection. You can find a pretty good up-to-date list of known Starforce protected titles over here - http://www.glop.org/starforce/
If big boobed women work at Hooters do one legged women work at IHOP?
Heh, I just RTFA. How did a man who writes so poorly get to be a "PR-manager"?
I have been stung by Starforce, and it is TOTAL BS. I refuse to purchase or play any games that are protected by that virus.
-d
"Here Lies Philip J. Fry, named for his uncle, to carry on his spirit"
hey Dennis Zhidkov... come on down, we know it's you...
Donald 'Duck' Dunn: We had a band powerful enough to turn goat piss into gasoline.
I'm not much of a gamer, and the other day I saw a game called "Area 51" (A FPS) for the PC. Looked cool, the system requirements were modest, and I didn't see anything about content protection. So I bought it.
/., at least I know about it.
Gameplay is nice, but from seeing this article, it installed "gameforce" crap on my system.
Damn, 1st malware I've had in decades on any PC I've owned.
Ah well, thanks to
So rise up, all ye lost ones, as one, we'll claw the clouds.
Apparently Starforce only protects games that really, really suck! I feel much better now.
What would Richard Feynman do, if he were here right now? He'd do some math and he'd follow through!
I read with great interest your attempts to bully and silence Cory Doctrow for having shed light on just what Star Force software is and what it does. I understand that you are the PR manager for Star Force. I would just like to say that you have done a good job in illustrating and explaining the goals and intentions of Star Force to the general public. I think your style of PR creates a more open environment of understanding how companies like Star Force operate. I applaud your efforts and wish other PR managers were as forthright and direct as you have been on this issue.
An optimist believes we live in the best world possible; a pessimist fears this is true.
I wonder if MS will let companies like StarForce create signed drivers for Windows Vista. This is interesting since if not, many games will not work in Windows Vista and we will have almost the same scenario as when games were DOS based and NT first came out. But if MS let them, you'll end up defeating the measures taken to create a much more stable operating system.
This is absolutely perfect. StarForce is accusing Doctorow of slander and/or libel (probably libel, as his remarks were published). Now, if he wants to press that case, Doctorow will have the opportunity to validate his claims in court. If he fails, he'll be found liable (of libel), and punished accordingly--as it should be. If he succeeds, plaintiff (StarForce) will lose, and will get the additional bonus of having their software be demonstrated in court as malware.
As an additional bonus, if StarForce loses, Doctorow can countersue, also for slander and/or libel--if you accuse me of lying, and I'm not, it damages my reputation.
As long as Doctorow is confident in his claims, his only thought should be "bring it on."
Moderate drunk! It's more fun that way!
Some PR people believe that all PR is good PR.
Some PR people are idiots.
Well, it might be good for Boing Boing. But I doubt it'll be good for StarFarce.
(Oh, no! I mocked their name! Call the FBI! or maybe the Turkish government!)
In Soviet Russia software pirates you! sorry.
TODO create witty sig.
"this digital terrorist is harassing us'.. Instant federal involvement.
Terrorist = anyone that doesnt agree with the DMCA, or any other federal law these days.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
You are breaking the slandering law and we have full intention to persue legal action against you web site and the individual who posted the article. This is a warning before more serious actions are taken.
Sincerely,
Fantasia Studios
And there's a new SA legal threat!
How does one "approximately" break 11 international laws. I mean there are grey and untested areas in the law but usually the amount og laws that one is breaking has a definable numerical value.
I read this on my boingboing feed earlier this morning. I'm glad this is getting some attention. Cory was in no way breaking any laws, local or international. I was actually quite mad at this guy for sending this crap email, whoTF does he think he is?
Now would be a good time to contact game publishers that use this "technology" and let them know how you feel about the matter.
X3 came with StarForce, like someone above said.
It absolutely REFUSED to let me run the game because it decided that my oldish DVD drive was emulated. So rather than disconnect my DVD drive I found a way around StarForce. So now not only can I play the game without the DVD, but I know how StarForce works so I could do it to all the other StarForce games, too. Rest assured that I will never buy another StarForce product, especially after noticing a reduction in performance (boot time and FPS) because it likes to run memory-resident and look over my shoulder.
Hell, I might even go out of my way to download said games now that I can play them freely. Good job. Liking those increased profits?
Job? I don't have time to get a job! Who will sit around and bitch about being broke and unemployed then?
Below: Their side of the story
So what if it reads more like a press release... but of particular interest is this: There is no legal concern because before a user loads a game, he or she has agreed to accept the conditions of the end-user licensing agreement, typically known as a EULA. These are also known as click and go, or click and accept agreements. When you accept, you are saying I will load this game or application at my own risk, and have read and understood the terms. Or there will be a disclaimer that protects the publisher from damages of any kind due to their products' use. Our product is licensed to our customers, and becomes part of their product, so the user by accepting the terms, is giving approval.
It seems to me that one could read that to say that they are knowingly installing software that can damage a computer, and that the manufacturer is not liable. But anyway, I'm curious about the wording on that license -- since this is third party software, I wonder if it's still covered.
An opinion might read like "It seems to me that my system became unstable after I installed some software. or I don't like the food at McDonald's.
...so if Mr BoingBoing can't prove his statements he might be in for a rough ride...
A statement of fact should be presented with backing documentation, something like After installing on a clean machine, using SomeMonitoringSoftware and SomeSoftwareToBeTested, it was noted that there were packets lost and the silent step-down was initiated by WinXP.
If you think imaginary property and real property are the same, when does your house become public domain?
Dennis Zhidkov
PR Manager
StarForce Technologies
Altufevskoe shosse, 5/2
127106 Moscow, Russia
Tel +7 (095) 9671451
Fax +7 (095) 9671452
ICQ: 75-371-896
E-mail: denis.zhidkov@star-force.com
Http: http://www.star-force.com/
The real question here is, is there any way around this software? Or in other words, is there a way to remove this melicious software and still play the game? While most of the games on the list I've never even heard of, there is a small handfull that I could see myself plausibly wanting to buy someday.
I ignore Anonymous Coward posts. If you want to discuss something, that's awesome. Log in.
How many of you actually take anything posted on Slashdot seriously anymore?
/. started. But the real problem are the people who flooded in during the dotbomb boom. (Note: I've been on Slashdot from the very beginning and have had several accounts) As soon as people here started getting obsessed with how technology can be used to make money, and political aspects of technology, it all went to hell. Here's an example. Something that SHOULD be front page news: xen.sourceforge.net has some pretty incredible virtualization technology and it's only getting better as Intel and AMD roll out their hardware support for virtualization (VTx and Pacifica respectively). But I've never seen any mention of this on the front page. I mean this IS a "geek" site after all. What are most geeks interested in? COMPUTER TECHNOLOGY. Virtualization on the x86 platform being the biggest thing to hit in decades. And it's NOT being covered on /.? What gives?
Think about it. Sure, the editorial staff has always been a bit subpar and the quality of the stories has dropped considerably since
-"...bad old ideas look confusingly fresh when they are packaged as technology" - Jaron Lanier (Digital Maoism on Edge.o
Even better -- they've got a contest to duplicate the alleged damage to CD/DVD drives as a result of their software. The contest is worth $10k USD, and a free trip to Moscow to demonstrate.
no games on my system that use StarForce... yippee, time to go to McDonalds for a Double Mac /w Cheese!
I'd write anti DRM software. An application to track down and optionally remove any DRM. Trouble is, while the civil disobediance appeals to me, and I'd like to see questions raised about whether a user right to modify their own computer to remove harmful software, I really can't be bothered learning the internal Windows knowledge I'd need.
Installing unauthorised software in the manner is a Criminal Offence under Computer Misuse legislation. Looks like this company could be facing some serious legal troubles quite soon.
... don't forget "big stella" :-)
Boycott
http://www.glop.org/starforce/
How would you sign your letter?
"Sincerely,
Stinky"
or
"Sincerely,
Wizzleteats"???
Sometimes they come back.
http://www.telltalegames.com/comics/samnmax/
Oh yes, they interfered with each other and a computer with a pile of dongles plugged into the printer port was unstable and liable to errors.
Every application assumes it is the only one installed on a PC and guess what? THEY ARE WRONG!!
There, I fixed it for you.
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
I demand an apology and a boycott of StarForce.. Gamers in the world unite!
Oh, wait!..
http://www.star-force.com/computer_security/protec tion.phtml?c=77
I found this download page with lots of large downloads. Now to see if I can run them all on OS X simultaneously...
This isn't news; it's sensationalizing an obviously empty threat. Ignore this sort of idiocy and it will go away.
eric http://www.ericdfields.com/
And thats, so i have noticed, www.nforce.nl
Because all the leechers whine that they cannot get the iso of the 3vil starforce games, and that the cracks arive, if at all, in form of large fake isos and other unhandy stuff.
Tells me that starforce is working just fine, as intended.
Keep up the good work, guys!
HI O WISE PRINCE. WHT TOOK U SO DAM LONG?
They are offering the prize for "damaging an optical drive". Boingboing did NOT claim damage, it claimed that the ide speed would be slowed down until the device would not work.
Big difference. It's just a sleazy PR move. When can I expect the FBI Boris?
... with regard to dealing with threats such as these. Not that this applies to a blogger in the same way, though, but there's still good stuff in it.
o f-a-legal-threat/
http://www.4chan.org/blog/2006/01/14/the-anatomy-
Worms 4 was the only game on that list that I might have even been intersted in!
This is a non story. These nuts only infect crap anyway.
"Live Free or Die." Don't like it? Then keep out of the USA
Here you go, click away! http://www.star-force.com/
What release of IWD: Heart of Winter came with Starforce? I know mine didn't. In fact, I don't know of ANY of the IE-games (I own BG, BG:TotSC, BG2:SoA, BG2:ToB, PS:T, IWD1, IWD1:HoW, IWD2) shipping with copy-protection beyond a simple GetDriveTypeA-check.
Belief is the currency of delusion.
...FBI stands for "Female Body Inspector".
If you can read this sig, you're too close.
that 'Dennis Zhidkov' is a pseudonym of Jack Thompson.
"hey Dennis Zhidkov... come on down, we know it's you..."
Of course, it's him. He also posted under the nick "Timothy Goldberg" in the original CNET thread. What a clown...
The catch with libel is you have to print something derogatory that you know is not true. Unless this company can prove that Mr. Doctorow plotted to make up stability issues and harm their reputation, they won't get anywhere with a libel suit--that's why they chose the "harassment" claim, instead.
It's one of the greatest tools out there. It helps me in my life and job.
Please buy starforce games and play them often!
(Did I mention I own my own business fixing computers. It gives my maybe 1/5 of my business. All of the bad cd burners I fix are caused by this thing.)
However, if you don't have the money to constantly get your computer fixed or cd burners replaced, you should avoid this thing like a virus...
The StarForce forum allows you to post without making an account. Try http://star-force.com/forum/index.php and tell them what you think!
Yes, because money is never an issue with legal matters.
Er, why? Because he said he hadn't experienced those problems, and pointed out that there are two sides to every story?
OK, so I have some karma to burn. Here is the other side from somebody you may trust more, an UbiSoft developer posting in the forums in response to people who claimed StarForce was riddled with problems and would cause huge issues when they started using it.
Some relevant quotes may help:
malware authors should be expected to have outstanding wants and warrants against them, and then we'd have no more silly nonsense from the malware author about protecting his rights to screw others' rights.
I can see the front desk at the Pinville FBI office now...
"I want to arrest rumormonger Doctorow."
"Malware author, eh? Get a rope, Billy, we got one."
if this is supposed to be a new economy, how come they still want my old fashioned money?
"Buy the game, then go download an ISO & use a NoCD patched/cracked exe"
You are still paying for the game and the publisher gets their money.
Sometimes you have to give up short term gains for long term goals.
See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
From a prince of persia forum mod
"The instructions to close all threads relating to Starforce came from the top of the Ubisoft hierarchy.
As Jinx FD stated -- if you do have problems you are free to contact them(Ubisoft) or Starforce directly.
If you have complaints please forward them onto the Community Manager(s).
But as instructed, this thread will be closed.
Regards
Bitebug2003"
It seems they know about the problems very well but simply wish to stifle any discursion about them
Hey, is Dennis Zhidkov the only person alive at that company? Seriously, everywhere I look, it's Dennis this, Dennis that. I'm beginning to think that he is just a law suit loving Ex-Russian turned corporate American. Hey Dennis, if you ever read this, FREE SPEECH is allowed in America, so get used to being under fire. Also, I'm glad I don't buy games for my PC, because I wouldn't want his crap infesting it. When I do a 'ps ax' I want to be able to look down the list of processes and be sure of what each and every single one is doing. Just another reason why I don't run Windows. Hey Dennis, if you ever get the chance to come up to Canada, you can see how normal, non-law suit crazy people live.
StarForce can be found here. Put your eye protection on first, the site might make your eyes bleed! They use the worst looking fonts I've seen in years!
Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
FTFA, the possiblity exists for other code excution. Refering to unauthorized code bieng installed via the copy protection schema in Starforce. The article did mention it was very few machines that experienced "driver issues", the mere fact that it paved the way for other malicious programs to install is what the focus is.
I am Bennett Haselton! I am Bennett Haselton!
StarForce, at least in my experience, is one of the most prevasive and effective way to prevent copy of games- and I have encountered more protections than most people.
They certainly prevent you from backing up your games that's for sure.
Currently I have four legitmate games that are protected by different version (3.x) of StarForce. Let me tell you, they are a major PAIN in the ass to backup. One of them works with Alcohol 120% SF copy scheme + DaemonTools 4.0, two of them (newer) work only when you make images of them using Lite-On dvd drives + seperate IDE controller card, and the latest one refuses to even run no matter what I do. Now I have to carry that game around if I want to play it on my laptop.
As to compability 16bit mode, I can also testify that this is true. The drive just gets slower and slower and eventually, your system become unresponsive. This last about 4 minutes. Either you wait it out, eject the disc, or restart the computer. Thankfully it usually only happens with copied games and scratched discs.
Ways to "defeat" StarForce without hexing the driver- 1. Use Lite-On brand DVD driver to creates the game image. For some unknown reason Lite-On drives have some extra functions in its firmware that enable the drive to copy SF games correctly. (a/ My Samsung/Sony/Pioneer drives never worked b/ I think SF fixed this in the latest version)
2. When you run a SF game, the check program first check to see if you have cd-rom drives connected to your onboard IDE channels. If it does then the program wont let you run the game from SCSI cd-rom drive(All image program ep. daemontool, alcohol uses SCSI instead of IDE).
a. You can use IDE jammers. But beware, they can screw your system up and you may have to restart. Also they do not work with the newer version of SF as the SF driver interfaces directly with the drive/chipset (bypassing the BIOS. That's pretty low and way out of standard practice).
b. You can try to disconnect the CD-rom before you try to play your copied games. If the check program doesn't see a IDE cd-rom, it allows the use of SCSI cd-rom.
c. If all else failed, you can get a cheapo $20 IDE controller card and connect all your cd-rom drive into it. IDE controller card uses emulated SCSI.
This brings us to a very interesting question- what would happen to all those people who have SATA and IDE drives? Some implementation of SATA (Via?) uses emulated SCSI. If the user had another drive connected to a IDE drive, the SATA drive would not work.
Finally, I just have to let this out- StarForce you suck! You "made" my backing up work much more challanging. I hope you burn in hell.
I love it when people claim that an individual is breaking an international law. International law is for nations, not for individuals. Oh ah, he called the FBI. Well, there is certainly no criminal intent in what was said, if anything there might be some civil application, but I really doubt it. Hey, how is that "freedom of the press" thing and blogs working out in the United States anyway?
Mean what you say...say what you mean.
Perhaps your view is because you are not aware of the very extensive evidence that has previously been posted in highly respective technical forums in the past about this subject.
Read this from Tom's Hardware's Aaron McKenna:_ pirates/index.html
http://www.tgdaily.com/2005/10/01/the_war_on_game
Read the follow up letter by Starforce:h tml?c=256&id=658
http://www.star-force.com/protection/protection.p
Read Aaron's response letter to Dennis Zhidkov at:
http://www.glop.org/forum/viewtopic.php?id=93
Ubi has received numerous emails from registered users of their games who have experienced this problem and are investigating them. Check their forums for more details on that.
Starforce regularly LOCKS and even deletes threads on their own forums whenever someone posts requesting for help with problems related to those discussed here, so they can keep up the pretense of not having any legitimate reports of problems.
I completely agree with Aaron's letter. When copy protection seeks to do modification to a person's system, regardless of what kind of "permission" they confuse the end user into giving them, then copy protection is going too far.
And making non-specific overstated threats to silence public critics is one of the must surefire signs that a company is trying to hide something.In theory.. in theory but neither do we live exactly by the books nor do we live in them :-)
In practice however it would be next to impossible for Zhidkov to prove his software does not
degrade the system in stability, performance and/or security. So even though the burden of
proving that his allegations are factual is initially on Doctorow, Zhidkov would have to respond by
disproving Doctorows findings, an undertaking by far more difficult, meaning if he's smart
he'll threaten, cajole and whine for a while and then move on.
two words. pro se.
But Cory Doctorow is a successful sf author that is worth millions even thou he gives his books away for free. I have no doubt that he's use his personal fortune to fight this, for the good of us all.
No...seriously...he will.
It would be better to mail his boss, if you can find out who that is.
I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
If his time has no value and lawyers are free.
12 words: Losing because you're not a lawyer and paying the other side's costs.
glop.org lists Trackmania Nations as containing starforce. Is this true? Trackmania Nations is a game that was released for free downloading by Nadeo, so copy protection on that seems like a weird thing to do...
Does anyone know more about it?
Contrast this with the amount of work and detail Mark Russinovich put into the rootkit and I think you will see that one site is merely making wild accusations, and the other has a well documented computer problem which should be taken seriously.
Now maybe there are in fact problems with the StarForce software, but there is nothing other than unproven statements on BoingBoing.
So my point of view is merely unbiased: Until BoingBoing posts something in the way of proof, it's open season for the lawyers.
If you think imaginary property and real property are the same, when does your house become public domain?
http://www.star-force.com/protection.phtml?c=83&id =692
If you really want it, get the pirated copy, where the copy protection has been removed.
If they refuse, refuse to purchase the software.
Im sure a blind sent email from some dood in Russia complaining that another dood says his software stinks made the FBI sit up, take immediate notice. Im sure the troops are being mobilised and the black helicopters are getting fueled. Not.
Armaments, 2-9-21 And Saint Attila raised the hand grenade up on high, saying, 'O Lord, bless this Thy hand grenade' N
They don't have to post facts. The law doesn't require them to. It only requires them to be RIGHT. There is sufficient evidence in the public purview of the issues he raised that he is not required to cite them. There is a vast amount of information out there that there are in fact problems, and even the game publishers are starting to recognize it.
trackmania nations has been getting a lot of press because its a new FREE game released by the trackmania people. Guess what? this FREE game includes starforce for some crazy f'd up reason. avoid it at all costs.
Why reinstall windows
surely you could boot to reecovery console and remove manually all files related that have been
added, then get windows to readd those drivers, or recopy from a working windows system.
Every new file can be isolated/noted down.
Liberty freedom are no1, not dicks in suits.
Can I sue boingboing for false advertising? I've not seen a 'Wonderful Thing' on it for ages. Anti-DRM rantage. Cory advertising Cory's stories. Xeni advertising Xeni's media appearances. Vaguely geeky stuff that every other geeky web site has...
Go to your favorite domain registry.. :)
buy "www.f--kstarforce.com"
and make a really popular blog
Not exactly the sort of thing that the silent 99% of the user-base is going to connect with game software, which is sort of the point of the noise that is being generated.
Hmm, going to Russia right now and demonstrating to a company that you have knowledge that can hurt them badly in the marketplace... Just how much DOES it cost to make someone disappear in Moscow these days?
I installed a Starforce protected game on my run of the mill Dell LAtitude laptop with practically no other softare installed. Upon reboot I couldn't get the game to start up. after proding things for a few minutes I found it was becasue my computer no longer thought it had a DVD drive. An uninstall didn't help, fortunately I'd just done a system backup which worked.
Puzzle Daze is now my job
Glop.org is considered "porn" by websense....after getting home and checking out the site, I see why... ....seriously guys...sometimes a simple cut/paste into another site (with link to the original and due credit of course) may be the better answer...or just put a "site NSFW" on it.
...Yes, it's truly amazing the stupid measures publishers are using to try to "protect" their assets. I say it's about time to think about processes to help curb piracy instead of bogging down people's computers with crapware.
Back to the topic...
I'm glad I don't posess any of those titles...but I swear everytime I see things like this, it makes me wonder if the Amish had it right in the first place...
Regards,
A Boing Boing reader
That's not true in the UK where I believe Cory is currently residing. In fact, it is more like the defendant having to prove that what they said was true.
Joe Llywelyn Griffith Blakesley
[This post is in the public domain (copyright-free) unless otherwise stated]
I sent an email along to Mr. Zhidkov: "I recently picked up a used copy of "The Black Mirror", which was infuriatingly difficult to install thanks to your "StarForce" copy protection features. I acquired this game legitimately and found it very insulting having to prove I did so, as well as frustrating to wait 5+ minutes every time I started the game while your software verifed the integrity of THE ENTIRE GAME DISC. Now you're threatening to sue Cory Doctorow for letting the public know, rightly, the kind of damage your software can do? Your company is in the same dismal league as Sony (their rootkit was an abomination) and you should be ashamed of yourself for being so malicious toward Chris as the honest people who still have faith enough to BUY their copies of software instead of steal it. Do everyone a favor and find another line of business. Copy-protection simply makes life harder for honest folks. Pirates will always break it. Grow up." Jerk.
Define Malware... can Cory prove this?
One of the problems... how many others does Cory detail?
Malicious software - look up malicious in a dictionary... Can Cory prove this?
I'm also convinced that M$ released a fix for that drive speed issue although I can't find this at the moment!! Annoying!!!!
The guy responding to Cory may not have his legal actions nailed down, but if Cory isn't right about what he said he is likely open to a libel suit. Cory seems to often get stories wrong, and I've been wondering when some company would have the guts to sue him so that he does more fact checking. Moreover, like it or not, Cory often skirts infringing the DMCA with his posts on how to hack past anti-copying measures. He may have come awfully close to a DMCA violation in his original post on this subject.
History speaks volumes: Toxic Shock Syndrome
"BSD is about people pissing each other.." (Moid Vallat)
I buy games. a lot of games. I can show you pictures of what I call "the wall of game" which is a bookshelf that i've stuffed to the brim with games. the bookshelf is so full that i've had to double-stack the shelf (meaning that there are actually two layers of games: if you pull of everything thats visible,there's another stack of games behind it)
I like having hard copies, with manuals. I don't care much for piracy, because I love games, and I want to give them money so they can make more games.
I crack almost every game that I legally own. I hate having to look for the discs in that massive pile. ok, so I'm lazy. but most of the time, the games start spinning up in the drive while I'm playing, and its very annoying, because it slows the game down, and makes a spinning noise that takes me away from the game. but also, the performance in cracked games is better. one of my favorites was morrowind. at the time that I got it, I could barely run it. but I donwloaded a crack, and... guess what? I got a few extra FPS, because it wasn't checking to be sure I didn't steal the game. so, I crack all the games that I buy. that should be the end of it, right? I bought it, I own it, I should be able to do what I want with it.
however, I must confess: there's a couple recent games that i've pirated. I am ashamed of that, but they are a couple of games that really deserved to be played, because the creators really outdid themselves on the game design. I could most certainly afford them, its not an issue of not wanting to spend money: I could eat ramen noodles for a few weeks while enjoying the gaming goodness.. but its the copy protection. if you're calling me a thief for buying your game, and then breaking the games performance while I'm trying to enjoy your creation.... well, its annoyng and insulting. stop it.
game developers need to realize one thing: copy protection only hurts the paying customer. when I start pirating games because the version I got using bittorrent runs better than the version I bought on a disc, THAT IS A SERIOUS PROBLEM. Stop punishing me for giving you money!
I actually have a few solutions to the piracy problem. its very simple, and if you follow these guidelines, you'll definitely win a few people over.
1. stop with the copy protection. it sucks. it slows the game down, it punishes the gamer, it encourages piracy, blah blah. see the above rant.
2. NO MORE PAPER SLEEVES! if I drop money on a game, and it comes in paper sleeves, and not a jewel case, I feel gypped. I don't care if you're saving 15 cents for each package, its a ripoff. Fire one of your do-nothing executives to make up for the 15 cent increase, or stop wasting your money on third-party copy protection solutions.
lately, there's been a few games that have came in plastic boxes. those are pretty nice, but take up a bit too much shelf-space if you're just putting one or two crummy discs in it.
3. include a nice manual if your game needs it. this should be obvious, but lately i've been getting these chintzy little flyers in place of instruction books. LAME. manuals like those included with civilization 4, and neverwinter nights platinum are awesome. kudos on those! but shame on you for the crappy pamphlet I got with the retail version of half-life 2.
4. No more cd's!! none! why is it that I'm still opening a box to find a stack of 5 cd's? wouldn't it be easier to just stick it all on one dvd? no, i'm not talking about a "special dvd edition." just put the game on one dvd. its ok, we've all got dvd drives now. and, if your game requires a brand-spankin-new video card to run, I'm pretty sure its no big deal for your target audience to get a special drive to play it on, too.
5. not mandatory, but stick something in the box in addition to the game dvd, the manual, and the jewel case. I bought the special edition of morrowind for the soundtrack cd and the pewter figurine of the ordinator. I have the cloth map that came with Neverwinter Nights hanging on my wall. the vers
In the United States, in order to win a libel case, the accuser must prove:
1) the statement made by the defendant is false
2) the defendant knew that it was false
3) the defendant made the statement to injure the accuser's reputation.
Bottom line: it is extremely difficult to prove libel in the USA. The defendant doesn't have to prove anything. Also, the FBI does not deal with civil matters.
United Kingdom libel law, on the other hand, is far more lax. The defendant must prove the statement is true to be acquitted.
While opinions are protected, false 'facts' are not. The following (from the original) are not opinions, but were persented as statements of fact, not opinion:
The BoingBoing post is not, in fact, "the original." It quotes a post at another site that gives enough information about the problem for a knowledgeable person to reproduce it. IANAL, but I'm pretty certain that Doctorow's quoting of a source -- one that is fully cited via the link at the bottom of his post -- would not be enough for a successful lawsuit even if the source is incorrect, provided he believes it to be accurate. I'm also fairly certain that any opinions he forms and reports on the basis of information gathered from said source would not meet the legal standard for libel. Now toss in the fact that quite a few people have, in fact, reproduced the problem and it's pretty much impossible to claim libel against Doctorow, let alone his source.
Finally, if simply reporting a story can be called harassment, as the Starforce PR guy claims, then Bill Clinton is likely the most harassed person in American history and the FBI should be investigating virtually the entire American press. But reporting what is legitimately believed to be true is neither libel nor harassment, however much Starforce may dislike it. Furthermore, I highly doubt they intend to sue anybody -- it would be much cheaper for them to simply fix their code. I suspect they're looking to make a quick a buck and move on, and that the intimidation tactics are just to prolong the project.
The Russian mob is far from funny. Doctorow lives in London, and central London currently has a large number of Russians who are unable to explain where their money comes from. Personally, I would rather have old style KGB agents than the current crop of oligarchs (though I don't give a toss who owns Chelsea, having been born within screaming distance of White Hart Lane.)
Pining for the fjords
I guess I just assumed Astroturf or troll because of his argument. It seemed to basically be "it hasn't happened to me yet, therefore it doesn't exist. Stop attacking people for not wanting their property stolen". This has several problems in it.
- "I haven't seen it, so it doesn't exist/can't be that bad" is not a valid argument
- Attacking starforce != attacking people for not wanting their property stolen. There are plenty of other, more customer-friendly ways of reducing piracy.
- He's defending something that, to me, at least, is completely, morally, wrong. Seriously, we're talking about software that, without your permission, installs things on your system that actively limit your hardware's functionality. AND introduce potential security flaws. There's a word for software that is installed, without your knowledge or consent, which has a detrimental effect on your machine. It's Malware.
So I guess that's why I just assumed that the parent poster was a corporate shill or a troll. I have a hard time envisioning anyone (particularly on Slashdot, where users tend to have at least a little more technical understanding than the average joe off the street) saying "Yeah, they install unwanted software on my machine, which limits my hardware, and may cause problems. But I'm ok with that, and it hasn't caused any problems for me, so everyone should be fine with it."
Oh, and as the other poster has commented, the difference between "Reported cases" and "actual cases" is likely to be fairly significant. Making the connection between installing a game, and having your CD Burner driver turn wonky two weeks later is a bit of a stretch if you don't know about StarForce, even for technical savvy folks.
Not to mention the fact that ½ the people I know regularly reinstall Windows every 3-6 months to improve performance.
This ½ would be the more "hard-core" gamers that I know.
I'm not implying a connection, this is just an observation.
... cause Trackmania is a really good game.
I know that this will probably not be seen because I am posting as anonymous (I have to go in a few minutes and don't have time to register), but I thought it would not hurt to ask anyway. I noticed that "Icewind Dale: Heart of Winter" on that list. I had a few CD-RW disks filled with work and other media I had backed up (I know, bad choice for backups) and not very long after I had installed the game, I found certain parts of each CD to be unreadable. I would have never even guessed that installing the game would have affected them, I always thought the CDs had just deteriorated (sp?) and since they were all from the same pack of CDs I didn't think it was TOO odd that they all did so at the SAME time. Parts of each CD are corrupted and unreadable on any PC now. Could this have possibly been the cause?
Copy protection in the old days (80s/early 90s C64/Amiga/etc) was annoying, but "modern" copy protection steps completely over the bounds of decency because it destabilizes, slows down, and otherwise corrupts every computer it runs on. It's "malware" in every sense of the word, because it negatively impacts the system's functioning long after the protected game is run. Often... long after it's deleted in disgust.
In the old days, all you had to do to get your computer "back to normal" was reboot and put the game's floppies back in the drawer. Now, you have to reinstall Windows. Or physically yank out the quarrantined hard drive you run games from, and put your other 3 drives back in after checking to make sure the optical drives are empty and shutting down.
It's high time a new site like resellerratings.com went up to publicize copy protection issues with new games. Game vendors have to learn that it's NOT ACCEPTABLE for them to treat customers' computers like their personal property and feel free to wantonly vandalize them at will.
Happens all the time. That's what diapers are for.
ID: the nose did not occur naturally, how would we wear glasses otherwise? (apologies to Voltaire)
He appears to have 'both oars in the water'...
Steve
Elder Scrolls: Oblivion is coming out soon (most rumors say March).
Please lodge your oppostion to Starforce in the Oblivion forums. Their public relations won't state whether Oblivion will use Starforce. The game has not been sent to pressing so it's not too late to let them know it would be a baaaaaaaad idea.
PLEASE! HELP STOP THE MADNESS!
"Game vendors have to learn that it's NOT ACCEPTABLE for them to treat customers' computers like their personal property and feel free to wantonly vandalize them at will."
Maybe someone whose system is damaged by copy-protection malware should file *criminal charges* for vandalism. -- You'd file criminal charges if some punk heaved a rock through your front window; why should *wilfully* damaging a PC's functionality be any different? For that matter, might this fall under an existing law that makes it a federal offense to do so? Just because it's a commercial product rather than a virus shouldn't make any difference.
~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
As long as Doctorow is confident in his claims, his only thought should be "bring it on."
Personally, I think that Cory and his gang is a bit too lefty for my personal tastes (but I still read BoingBoing).
On the other hand, I agree: "bring it on".
The idiocy of these kinds of "protections" is how they alienate people like me. I tend to always buy legit copies of my media because I belive in financially supporting those who entertain me. I was going to go buy a copy of Freedom Force vs The Third Reich this weekend, now I know that it's going to muck up my computer I'm instead going to get an illegally pirated copy because it's safer.
...as not informative. As the above AC noted, his name is a none-too-bizarre Russian last name.
$META_SIG_JOKE
...hackers report you!
There is, however, no evidence that StarForce are planning to actually sue for libel. Instead, what they've done is threaten that they have informed an American criminal investigation bureau about what a Canadian living in Britain has been writing.
So not only are they baseless threats, they're pretty bloody stupid ones.
"I Know You Are But What Am I?"