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PTO Requests Working Model of Warp Drive

aborchers writes "According to Patently-O: Patent Law Blog, the PTO has requested a working model of a Warp Drive for which a patent was recently applied. From the article, "Among other rejections, the Examiner has asserted a rejection under 35 U.S.C. 101 for lack of utility -- finding that the invention is inoperable." At least one examiner is paying attention!"

277 comments

  1. Wont they be suprised... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    If they actually turn something in..

    1. Re:Wont they be suprised... by Spy+der+Mann · · Score: 5, Funny

      If they actually turn something in..

      Then I wouldn't be surprised if the inventor begins with "Greetings, hoomans!"

    2. Re:Wont they be suprised... by JamesTRexx · · Score: 1

      If only... If only...

      --
      home
    3. Re:Wont they be suprised... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Something? No, that wouldn't be a surprise.

    4. Re:Wont they be suprised... by skoaldipper · · Score: 2, Funny
      > If they actually turn something in...

      or if the PTO dusts off some shelf and discovers this patent was actually granted to Worsley and Twist back in 1836 as well.

      --
      I hope, when they die, cartoon characters have to answer for their sins.
    5. Re:Wont they be suprised... by Keebler71 · · Score: 4, Informative

      More so when you read the fine print and realize that the patent was filed by 3D Realms!

      --
      "It takes considerable knowledge just to realize the extent of your own ignorance." - Thomas Sowell
    6. Re:Wont they be suprised... by CaptainTylor · · Score: 1

      So that's what's taking Duke Nukem Forever so long...all the developers are on a ship travelling at near-light-speed!

    7. Re:Wont they be suprised... by sepluv · · Score: 1
      Ohh...the patent offices do refuse patents sometimes. I better suggest a slight adjustment for the patent (board) game in today's User Friendly (e.g.: two 6's in a row gets you a refusal).

      The game is really educational for your kids BTW (if you want them to make loads of money when they're older, or go insane).

      --
      Joe Llywelyn Griffith Blakesley
      [This post is in the public domain (copyright-free) unless otherwise stated]
    8. Re:Wont they be suprised... by jonwil · · Score: 1

      Wouldnt it be a violation of the Temporal Prime Directive to try and patent something before it is actually invented?

    9. Re:Wont they be suprised... by SleepyHappyDoc · · Score: 2

      The (actually rather large type at the top of) the USPTO page lists the inventors as Worsley, Andrew Peter; (Kent, GB) ; Twist, Peter John; (Tortola, GB). I'm assuming you're making a joke, but I'm wondering what connection those who modded you 70% informative saw between these people and 3D Realms. I don't see one, and googling variations on the names brings me the blog, but nothing about 3D Realms or Duke Nukem Forever.

      I probably just got trolled, and someone is probably laughing his ass off at my expense, but I've got nothing better to do this hour of the morning.

      --
      Stasis is death. Embrace change.
    10. Re:Wont they be suprised... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ahh, the Brokeback Warp Drive Patent of 1836

    11. Re:Wont they be suprised... by WWWWolf · · Score: 2, Funny

      "Hello, Hunam! What would you like to threaten me about today?" =)

    12. Re:Wont they be suprised... by jo42 · · Score: 1

      Evidence, Item, #1: Video Tape of Star Trek Episodes.

    13. Re:Wont they be suprised... by bckrispi · · Score: 1

      Enjoy the *sauce*!

      --
      Xenon, where's my money? -Borno
  2. Too bad... by Pig+Hogger · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Too bad they didn't also answer a working model for many software that's patented, as well as some business methods, such as the RIAA's...

    1. Re:Too bad... by grimsweep · · Score: 1

      Careful what you ask for. I think Sony's got that covered on both fronts with their rootkit 'feature'.

    2. Re:Too bad... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Working models are required when the Examiner simply cannot believe such an invention would work. They're typically requested of the flood of time machines, warp drives, teleportation devices, and other such knick-knacks and paddy-whacks the USPTO receives applications for.

      As far as your typical Slashdrone comment regarding software, however, there's a fairly low burden of showing something will work in software just because there is so much flexibility when writing code. The same is even more true with regards to a hardware implementation of something that could be done in software.

      However, since you've been modded insightful, I have to ask -- why? If it's something that you honestly don't believe could be implemented in software, then a) you're obviously too stupid a coder to accidentally run into the problem of practicing the patented invention; and b) if the inventor can actually code the thing, you'd be suggesting that it would therefore be useful and non-obvious just because you're too stupid to figure out how the patent system works.

      Here's a hint, Slashdot ... most of the examiners in the electrical arts know more about electronics than you guys. And they DEFINITELY understand the patent system better than idiots like parent.

    3. Re:Too bad... by Daniel+Dvorkin · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Just what I was thinking -- I'd really like to see the PTO require working models of all "inventions" submitted for patent, and while I'm as pleased to see this frivolous application rejected as I would be any other, I can't help be a bit bothered by the double standard involved. "Silly, unworkable, sci-fi-inspired idea probably filed as a joke? Forget it, pal. Silly, unworkable, b-school-inspired idea layered in suit-speak? No problem!"

      --
      The correlation between ignorance of statistics and using "correlation is not causation" as an argument is close to 1.
    4. Re:Too bad... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative
      Here's a hint, Slashdot ... most of the examiners in the electrical arts know more about electronics than you guys.

      Wrongo, legal fanboi. They don't know jack shit about "electrical arts", or else they'd have a real job actually building something instead of shuffling papers in a government cubicle.

      If they had even the slightest bit of talent, they would be embarrassed to categorize the most trivial of ideas to be "non-obvious".

      And they DEFINITELY understand the patent system better than idiots like parent.

      No, they can't see the forest for the trees. All they know about is masturbatory legal minutia. For example, they can't see how software patents are threatening to destroy innovation in the software industry, because they're not actually trying to make a productive living developing software. They just get paid to plant landmines all over the industry landscape; they don't give a shit about who ends up getting hurt or who has to clean them up. All they know is that their bosses allocate them a couple of hours to plant each mine, and their organization is rewarded based on how many mines get planted.

    5. Re:Too bad... by jcr · · Score: 3, Informative

      I'd really like to see the PTO require working models of all "inventions" submitted for patent

      That used to be among the requirements, but the costs of storing all the models became prohibitive back in the 1870's or so. The Smithsonian Institution has quite a few of them, and they show some of the collection from time to time.

      -jcr

      --
      The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
    6. Re:Too bad... by symbolic · · Score: 1

      The acquisition of working models with respect to software probably won't be an issue - what they'll have to contend with is several submissions, since most of what is patented either has prior art, or is so obvious (aka "stupid") nobody without a lawyer on the payroll would consider patenting it in the first place. Most people despise government bureaucracy, but this is one case where it would actually do some justice - make the software patent process so cumbersome that it's just not worth the trouble.

    7. Re:Too bad... by theorbtwo · · Score: 1

      There's no purticular reason that they should /store/ all of them, only the ones that haven't been examined yet. However, storing even that many might be a problem, and moving them to the examiners (or vice-versa). How do you store a working model of a neuclear reactor?

    8. Re:Too bad... by D4C5CE · · Score: 1
      I'd really like to see the PTO require working models of all "inventions" submitted for patent
      That used to be among the requirements, but the costs of storing all the models became prohibitive back in the 1870's or so.
      The collection also caught fire and a substantial part of it was destroyed, even twice (IIRC - the story goes that at one time some were actually saved by PTO employees throwing the "best pieces" out of the window).

      Anyway, for software there would hardly be a storage problem (at some US$400 per Terabyte) and the documentation&disclosure function of the patent system could even be much improved by requesting actual working and compilable source code as both a model and a "preferred embodiment" - so they should really require this (or better yet, abandon BMPs altogether, of course) to help rein in the trolls.

      The present state of affairs looks rather bleak if it is news indeed that one patent office did for once require a model at least of something as outlandish as a Warp Drive, rather than rubber-stamping it.

    9. Re:Too bad... by LinuxHam · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I'd really like to see the PTO require working models of all "inventions" submitted for patent

      I respectfully disagree. I submit patent applications as an IBM employee, and while I don't have the resources to ever bring my ideas to market, IBM can certainly bring to bear just about anything I submit that they deem worthy. But why would they ever tool a manufacturing line and build a working demo of every invention *before* having a patent covering the idea? I started to develop a residential answering machine that allows a family to setup individual profiles with independent mailboxes, greetings, and email addresses to forward messages as attachments. I did my due dilligence and found too many related patents and applications out there. Even if someone hasn't developed a working demo yet, I can respect that they claimed the idea as their own. Why can't you? And why don't you feel that "Joe Inventor" who works in his garage for 20 years trying to find the next big thing should be allowed to make money by documenting cutting edge ideas just because he can't afford to fab circuits, develop code and burn EEPROMS?

      Kicking it up a notch, how about IBM implementing a new chip design? We can simulate complete chip designs entirely in software. Why should they spend a billion dollars to fab the first version of the chip just so they can ship it to Washington so a patent clerk can validate its worthiness? I feel this position was borne from the fact that a tiny fraction of the folks we meet and work with in our daily lives are actually backed by an organization that may at one point actually do something with our ideas. You certainly don't mind demanding that those of us who *can* spend millions of dollars in development actually *do* spend that kind of money. Obviously, software patents are a different story, but you didn't say "all software inventions". You want every patent application accompanied by a working model.

      --
      Intelligent Life on Earth
    10. Re:Too bad... by SEWilco · · Score: 3, Funny
      "How do you store a working model of a neuclear reactor?"

      Inside the working models of radiation shielding.

    11. Re:Too bad... by pluggo · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Eh... didn't Einstein work at the patent office?

      --
      Pulling together is the aim of despotism and tyranny. Free men pull in all kinds of directions. It's the only way to mak
    12. Re:Too bad... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, he was known for his practical engineering prowess, especially his ability to deliver software products into the market.

    13. Re:Too bad... by LeonGeeste · · Score: 0

      I started to develop a residential answering machine that allows a family to setup individual profiles with independent mailboxes, greetings, and email addresses to forward messages as attachments.

      So in other words, you're another ... person ... trying to get a software patent. Please, spare us all, and don't file this one. Ever.

      --
      Rank my idea: http://www.sinceslicedbread.com/node/531
    14. Re:Too bad... by Strych9 · · Score: 1

      I think the intention is to stop the submarine patents. Patents are supposed to protect the inventors and for something electronic you don't need a big PCB fab in order to show a working model of many garage inventions. I think a proper simulation of a new chip FAB would be sufficient as proof that someone is just not patenting ideas and waiting for someone to invent them and collect. That, in my opinion, is quite useless and goes against the spirit of the patent system.

      Besides you can't tell me that the way the current system operates is the best model to truely protect inventors of ideas and device who intend to bring them to market. Many current patents are so overly broad in range its crazy, and the current 20 year lifespan, especially on software models (which in theory shouldn't be allowed to be patented anyways) is way overboard, and is hurting innovation not helping by slowing down the process that items fall into the public domain.

      My 0.02$

    15. Re:Too bad... by Daniel+Dvorkin · · Score: 1

      But why would they ever tool a manufacturing line and build a working demo of every invention *before* having a patent covering the idea?

      Because if they want to bring the idea to market, that's one of the hoops they have to jump through.

      Even if someone hasn't developed a working demo yet, I can respect that they claimed the idea as their own. Why can't you?

      Because coming with an idea is the easy part. I can sit on my ass for an hour and think up a hundred good ideas. But if I'm not willing to do the work to make the ideas into reality, then I have no right to prevent someone else from doing so, or forcing them to pay me when they do.

      And why don't you feel that "Joe Inventor" who works in his garage for 20 years trying to find the next big thing should be allowed to make money by documenting cutting edge ideas just because he can't afford to fab circuits, develop code and burn EEPROMS?

      This is a red herring -- the kind of patent that requires massive industrial infrastructure to implement isn't being filed by Joe Inventor. It's being filed by IBM.

      We can simulate complete chip designs entirely in software.

      Only to a point -- the simulations don't always tell you how the real thing is going to behave (which is increasingly the case now that chips, especially, are small enough that quantum effects come into play.) I could probably mock up a SimChip that would do all kinds of fantastic stuff. Unless I can actually build the thing, then it's worthless.

      --
      The correlation between ignorance of statistics and using "correlation is not causation" as an argument is close to 1.
    16. Re:Too bad... by StormReaver · · Score: 1

      "Why should they spend a billion dollars to fab the first version of the chip just so they can ship it to Washington so a patent clerk can validate its worthiness?"

      I don't think it's as big a problem as that. Prototypes are never fabricated to the same degree of quality as the final product. A working (note I didn't say working well) prototype should be required as a proof of concept before a patent is issued.

      Anything that costs a billion dollars to fabricate will have many subcomponents. As each of those subcomponents is completed, it can be patented (if it's worthy of a patent) until the grand parent project is completed.

      The reason I object to patents being granted on ideas alone is that someone will acquire a patent on an abstract idea that is beyond his ability to implement, then wait for someone smarter to expend all the time, effort, and expense to actually implement it, then sue for infringement on something the plaintiff has no realistic chance on actually creating.

      The second reason I object is that an abstract idea (for which the USPTO issues patents, almost to the exclusion of all else it seems) patent will then be used in a lawsuit for anything even remotely similar in concept. The suer will then claim, "that was the specific intent of my patent all along, your honor!". Whereas if working prototypes were required, it would be easy to judge the actual product against the patent suit claim.

      In essence, only creations should be patentable. And a creation isn't a creation until it's actually created. An idea without a corresponding implementation isn't (or shouldn't be) a creation.

      I can't count the number of times I thought I had a great idea, only to have it killed by the reality of it's infeasibility, and then see something on the market that is remarkable similar with the sole exception that some small, idiotic, and seemingly insurmountable aspect of my idea was changed to fit reality by someone more ingenious. My idea could never have made it to market, while the other idea could. That other inventor deserved to succeed because he actually solved the problem and created a working model. It I had the money to patent my unworkable idea, I could have extorted the real inventor. That's just wrong on the face of it.

    17. Re:Too bad... by linzeal · · Score: 1

      If coming up with a 100 ideas an hour is easy for you, why don't you work in a thinktank? BTW, that is only a measily 800 unique marketable ideas a day for your average workload.

    18. Re:Too bad... by linzeal · · Score: 1

      Why the hell should they have to create it physically if they can model it with something like ideas, solidworks or inventor? I think CAD files should be submitted with each application that can be scrutinized with a variety of simulation packages at the very least. If someone wants to build the damn thing because it uses exotic physical properties so be it but if it based on sounder principles there is no reason.

    19. Re:Too bad... by jericho4.0 · · Score: 1

      I would be interested in an estimate of how many non-software patents get a manufacturing line tooled up without having a working prototype built first. Or, what percentage of ideas go from theory to production?

      --
      "A language that doesn't affect the way you think about programming, is not worth knowing" - Alan Perlis
    20. Re:Too bad... by Scarletdown · · Score: 1
      Anyway, for software there would hardly be a storage problem (at some US$400 per Terabyte) and the documentation&disclosure function of the patent system could even be much improved by requesting actual working and compilable source code as both a model and a "preferred embodiment"


      Even better would be someone submitting the source code, and the examiner informing him that he has the wrong office. Go submit it to the copyrights office instead.

      --
      This space unintentionally left blank.
    21. Re:Too bad... by AndroidCat · · Score: 1
      most of the examiners in the electrical arts know more about electronics than you guys.

      Come on! It's not like you have to be Einstein to work in the patent office! ;)

      --
      One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
    22. Re:Too bad... by D4C5CE · · Score: 1
      Even better would be someone submitting the source code, and the examiner informing him that he has the wrong office. Go submit it to the copyrights office instead.
      Of course, but post-State Street most people seem to think the USPTO is an appropriate avenue for code as well (and so everyone tries their luck, as in any "arms race", in spite of good reasons to the contrary)...

      So, requiring a model should help fend off many dubious patent applications anyway: all that are based on an approach that "something already well-known could also be done on a computer, so let's get a patent trap to catch the ones who are unfortunate enough to actually implement it once the idea becomes viable..."

    23. Re:Too bad... by AJWM · · Score: 1

      But why would they ever tool a manufacturing line

      If you really think that IBM (or anyone else, for that matter) tools up a manufacturing line to produce a prototype, I call bullshit. Ditto for "spend a billion dollars to fab the first version of the chip". That stuff can be done as lab scale prototypes too, without building a dedicated fab line for it.

      Quite frequently things don't work out in practise they way the did on paper -- sometimes we even discover new physical principles because of that. Ideas are cheap, a patent should only be awarded to somebody who makes the effort to reduce the idea to practise.

      --
      -- Alastair
    24. Re:Too bad... by AJWM · · Score: 1

      Why the hell should they have to create it physically if they can model it with something like ideas, solidworks or inventor?

      How about because it's possible to model something in a CAD program that can't possibly be actually built in the real world?

      See the Kansas City Hyatt Regency skywalk disaster (1981, killed 114 people, injured 180, called "the worst structural disaster in US history", at least until the collapse of the WTC, where there were aggravating circumstances) for an example of something that couldn't be manufactured as designed, with catastrophic consequences. (Henry Petroski's analysis in "To Engineer is Human" details the problems with trying to build the thing as designed, this report covers the actual changes made - Fig. 9 is most relevant.)

      --
      -- Alastair
    25. Re:Too bad... by TeraCo · · Score: 1
      He didn't say they were good ideas. But you only need one good idea a year to be hailed an innovator. If he thinks up (100 x 8 x 5 x 52) 208000 good ideas a year, he only needs a success rate of 0.00000something to succeed!

      Mm.. nuts and gum.

      --
      Not Meta-modding due to apathy.
    26. Re:Too bad... by ozmanjusri · · Score: 1
      How do you store a working model of a neuclear reactor?

      No need. There's prior art on that one already. http://www.ocrwm.doe.gov/factsheets/doeymp0010.sht ml

      --
      "I've got more toys than Teruhisa Kitahara."
    27. Re:Too bad... by lionchild · · Score: 1

      Oddly, I think i'd be tempted to pull up in a large truck with large 'Radioactive' symbols on it and get out in my radiation suit and ask where they'd like the working model put, plus copies of their paperwork showing they have certified radiation containment.

      The drawings don't say what sort of 'motor' the system uses. If nothing else, it'd be funny to see their reaction.

      --
      Awk! Pieces of eight. Pieces of eight. Pieces of seven... ERROR: General Protection Fault. [Paroty Error.]
    28. Re:Too bad... by jonwil · · Score: 1

      What I think the OP is refering to (and I aggree with this too) is that you should be recquired to demonstrate that you actually have done some work on making the idea you want to patent into an actual product.

      For this, submitting blueprints or simulations would probobly suffice too (e.g. in the case of an integrated circut, showing the patent office a simulation of a chip containing patentable idea would probobly work since it demonstrates that work has been done towards turning the idea into an actual physical item)

      Another example, if you have built a new kind of gismo for a jet engine that and want a patent, you could either demonstrate the gismo on a working jet engine or submit complete blueprints for how to build a jet engine with this gismo on it (or how to retrofit it onto an existing engine). Or even just complete blueprints for the gismo itself.

      I cant think of anything that deserves a patent where the person comming up with the patent would be unable to show a prototype, simulation or plan for a device incorporating what is described in the patent.

    29. Re:Too bad... by alexo · · Score: 1


      > Even if someone hasn't developed a working demo yet, I can respect that they
      > claimed the idea as their own. Why can't you?


      Because the concept of "claiming an idea as their own" is ludicrous.

    30. Re:Too bad... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Because coming with an idea is the easy part. I can sit on my ass for an hour and think up a hundred good ideas. But if I'm not willing to do the work to make the ideas into reality, then I have no right to prevent someone else from doing so, or forcing them to pay me when they do.
      It is clear you can't think up one good idea. Partly it's because you can't sit on your ass and think for 15 minutes, but perhaps even if you could (and provided you have sufficient inteligence which I have no reason to blindly doubt), you have been brought up to despise intelectual activities so you would be asshamed of yourself to actually think more then you work. I'd say creators of patent system had people like you in mind when they came up with patent system.
    31. Re:Too bad... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So in other words, you're another ... person ... trying to get a software patent. Please, spare us all, and don't file this one. Ever.

      So to you, any device that has any microchips running any kind of embedded software code is purely a software-based invention? Modern home stereo systems? Do you see the digital display and say, "wow, what a nice piece of software"? Microwave ovens? VCRs? Cable boxes? Sure, there are plenty of software patents applied to the UI software running on those cable boxes, but that does not reduce the entire device to one of those "evil software patents". That's why you're at -1.

    32. Re:Too bad... by LeonGeeste · · Score: 0

      First of all, I'm at 0, not 1, and my karma was positive two days ago. Thanks for revealing that you're one of my freaks who has given enemies a mod penality.

      I think you missed my point. The GP of your post was saying how he "invented" an answering machine that sets up different profiles and sends emails. Answering machines have been invented. OS's have been invented. Email has been invented. All his ("non-software") invention does is code an answering machine to have profiles and send emails. WOW. That's SO original. That's SO non-software.

      --
      Rank my idea: http://www.sinceslicedbread.com/node/531
    33. Re:Too bad... by lasindi · · Score: 1

      I submit patent applications as an IBM employee, and while I don't have the resources to ever bring my ideas to market, IBM can certainly bring to bear just about anything I submit that they deem worthy. But why would they ever tool a manufacturing line and build a working demo of every invention *before* having a patent covering the idea?

      Let's recall why patents were set up. Patents are there so that inventors disclose their ideas to the public, and the public grants them a limited monopoly on the invention as a reward for their work. The goal is for the public as a whole to gain from patents, and the only way that will happen is if the inventor actually produces the inventions for the public. If the inventor plans on making even a penny on his invention, he will have to produce at least one working copy, which he could demonstrate for USPTO. In other words, if you're not going to build your invention, who gains from it?. The answer is, no one; the inventor just gets to prevent anyone else from using the idea now.

      But there's another important reason why a demonstration model ought to be built. It would have been easy for the Wright Brothers to patent "a craft that relies on Bernoulli's principle to fly" without producing a working model. There are lots of things that "should work" but don't because the drawing board doesn't always take everything in the real world into account. Bernoulli's principle had been known for over a century before the Wright Brothers came along; it didn't mean that Bernoulli could patent an airplane. Requiring a working model would weed out things like this pseudoscientific "invention" we're discussing, and it might even prevent things like the "not operator" from getting patented, since the patent clerk might see for himself how utterly obvious and simple the invention is.

      Even if someone hasn't developed a working demo yet, I can respect that they claimed the idea as their own. Why can't you? And why don't you feel that "Joe Inventor" who works in his garage for 20 years trying to find the next big thing should be allowed to make money by documenting cutting edge ideas just because he can't afford to fab circuits, develop code and burn EEPROMS?

      I can respect someone's work, and that's why we have "first-to-create," not "first-to-file" in the US. They can feel free to patent it -- as soon as they show they've actually created something. I've seen lots of circuits, designs, software ideas, etc. that looked great on paper, and then failed in reality (at least on the first try).

      Also, "Joe Inventor" represents a rather small group in the world of inventors. Most patents are produced by gargantuan companies (like IBM, Sun, Microsoft, Apple etc.) in enormous numbers (i.e. thousands per year), and what ends up happening (at least in the software world, and probably others too) is that "Joe Inventor" can't invent anything more because he might violate thousands of patents he's never seen before just by creating something. Big companies can at least say to each other "I'll let you use these hundred patents if you let me use your hundred patents," but individual inventors don't have that kind of clout.

      Kicking it up a notch, how about IBM implementing a new chip design? We can simulate complete chip designs entirely in software. Why should they spend a billion dollars to fab the first version of the chip just so they can ship it to Washington so a patent clerk can validate its worthiness?

      Again, if IBM wants to invent a new chip design, doesn't that mean it's useful? The chip should be produced if it's useful, and they can just show one chip to the clerk. If they don't want to produce it, it's clearly not useful, and therefore they shouldn't be patenting it in the first place.

      --
      I have discovered a truly remarkable proof of this theorem that this sig is too small to contain.
  3. About darn time they paid attention. by AltGrendel · · Score: 4, Funny

    Now I've got some time to finish mine.

    --
    The simple truth is that interstellar distances will not fit into the human imagination

    - Douglas Adams

    1. Re:About darn time they paid attention. by slowbad · · Score: 1
      The simple truth is that interstellar distances will not fit into the human imagination

      "Have some sense of proportion!" she would say 38 times a day.
      And so he built the total perspective vortex just to show her.

      And one in end he plugged the whole of reality as extrapolated
      from a faery cake, and in the other end he plugged his wife so
      that when he turned it on, she saw in one instant the whole
      infinity of creation and herself in relation to it.

      So Adams also shows that interstellar distances co-exist with human imagination for one instant, before Trintragula's invention annihilates it.

    2. Re:About darn time they paid attention. by linj · · Score: 2, Funny

      You're a bit behind, aren't you.
      MacGyver built his already on episode 842, out of monkey blood and a half sprig of mint!

    3. Re:About darn time they paid attention. by skoaldipper · · Score: 5, Funny

      Yeah, I remember that show. I have all the seasons on DVD with the director's cut and interviews. The funny thing is, in 842 they originally had MacGyver using an old snake skin and banana peel instead, but for some strange reason, all the working prototypes in rehersal kept transporting the MacGyver crew on location to the Quantum Leap studios instead.

      --
      I hope, when they die, cartoon characters have to answer for their sins.
    4. Re:About darn time they paid attention. by macklin01 · · Score: 1

      Best Sunday morning post ever! If I had mod points, I'd give you a boost. Thanks for a good laugh. :-) - Paul

      --
      OpenSource.MathCancer.org: open source comp bio
    5. Re:About darn time they paid attention. by Foo2rama · · Score: 5, Funny

      I thought he ended up in some warped reality, fighting Egyptian gods...

      --


      ---In a time of Chimpanzees I was a Monkey.
    6. Re:About darn time they paid attention. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...and people said that there were no drugs in Hollywood.

  4. I have a working model. by kote-men-do · · Score: 5, Funny

    I have a working model, but unfortunately it's stranded a couple of galaxies away. I can give you directions though, would that suffice?

    1. Re:I have a working model. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      Are you sure it's working?

    2. Re:I have a working model. by IdleTime · · Score: 1, Funny

      Ahhh... The wonders of the English Language.

      I believe you meant to say "I HAD a working model...". Because if you HAVE a working model it can't be stranded in a different galaxy, but the one you had, before it became stranded......

      --
      If you mod me down, I *will* introduce you to my sister!
    3. Re:I have a working model. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He's obviously fibbing. Warp drive won't get you past the great barrier!

    4. Re:I have a working model. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe he's stranded out there with the engine, and this is a sneaky way of effecting a rescue expedition.

    5. Re:I have a working model. by kote-men-do · · Score: 1

      If I said "I had a working model" that means I would no longer own it. But the warp drive is still my property even though it's not in my inventory. Sorry, English isn't my native language.

    6. Re:I have a working model. by Cheapy · · Score: 1

      I'm sure as long as those directions had a few grand attached to it, for 'gas' ya'know?, then it would be just fine.

      --
      Would you kindly mod me +1 insightful?
    7. Re:I have a working model. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And even if it did, the Q would be out there all like "I'm gonna take yer warp drive, biz-natch!"

      Word.

    8. Re:I have a working model. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If I said "I had a working model" that means I would no longer own it. [...] Sorry, English isn't my native language.

      The last bit is somewhat evident. Take some advice from a fellow non-English native: you no longer have a working model. What you have is a non-working model, anywhere between 'almost working' and 'completely fucked up.'

      Now, how much can you afford to pay for a rescue expedition? And I'm not taking any pesku Earthling currency, I can't even pay the teleproter service to my ship with it.

    9. Re:I have a working model. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe in another galaxy he gave the working model to himself from another dimension and so he really does "have" the model, a "he" from another dimension.

    10. Re:I have a working model. by ozmanjusri · · Score: 1
      Sorry, English isn't my native language.

      Don't worry, there are plenty of people here who speak Klingon.

      --
      "I've got more toys than Teruhisa Kitahara."
    11. Re:I have a working model. by hausmaus · · Score: 1

      Hey, I've got a Warp Drive right next to me. (The joke: the computer is running OS/2 Warp...)

      --
      Your email has been returned due to insufficent voltage.
    12. Re:I have a working model. by VendettaMF · · Score: 1

      Actually you need to rethink. The original form is quite corrct. The posessive "have" is fully accepted to incorporate the statement of ownership of the object of the sentence, even where physical posession is absent. Do you stop having a home every time you step out to buy a coke?

      That is, if he/she had stated "I own a working model. It is stranded in another galaxy" I'm sure you'd not have objected? In this context under the English language "have" is a perfectly acceptable synonym for "own".

      I have a car. It is in Ireland. I am in China. I am not going to be returning to Ireland within the working lifespan of a regular modern built car. I still have a car in Ireland.

      Why, yes, I am an English teacher (and a lousy typist).

      --
      kartune85 : Incapable of reason, observation or learning. A kind of dim, drab, flightless parrot.
    13. Re:I have a working model. by VendettaMF · · Score: 1

      Dammit! Three re-reads and I still didn't catch the missing 'e' till after the submit.

      --
      kartune85 : Incapable of reason, observation or learning. A kind of dim, drab, flightless parrot.
  5. An example of a good patent by MarkByers · · Score: 2, Funny

    This would be an example of a useful patent, if only it were true.

    --
    I'll probably be modded down for this...
  6. Actually let them patent it now by argoff · · Score: 4, Insightful

    .... that way we won't get harrassed with frivolous lawsuits when it becomes a reality 20 years + down the road.

    Essay: A Violent Protest Against Patents

    1. Re:Actually let them patent it now by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's because potential patents are an investment oppertunity. In fact, there are orginizations that do nothing but build up their portfolio and then cash in later with patent infringment lawsuits. It's a business at the expense of confidence in industry inovation.

    2. Re:Actually let them patent it now by Rakishi · · Score: 1

      It is worse than that from what I hear, see if you make a product someone else can sue you for infringement on their patent. Specifically if you sue someone they can sue you right back (think of how many patents large companies hold, probably at least one applies to your product). If you make no product and simply own patents, you are able to sue other people without any risk to yourself.

    3. Re:Actually let them patent it now by tomhudson · · Score: 4, Interesting
      I was going to say the same thing, but it doesn't matter.

      The warp drive will not be used down on earth, and will probably not even be constructed planetside (and if it is, it is more likely to be built in Chana than the US anyways), so it will be outside the USPTOs jurisdiction.

    4. Re:Actually let them patent it now by argoff · · Score: 1


      You're probably right, but It'd sure be something to get sued in Court over a warp drive patnet.

    5. Re:Actually let them patent it now by Surt · · Score: 1

      Yeah, thanks buddy. I have a working model that I'm ready to commercialize, but I should wait 20 years while this faker has the technique locked up in a phony patent?

      --
      "Who is the Journal of Quantum Physics going to believe?" --Stephen Hawking
    6. Re:Actually let them patent it now by bev_tech_rob · · Score: 1

      No kidding.....it will use crappy made warp coils and counterfeit dilithium crystals.....the power transfer conduits will probably rupture half the time ;)

      --
      You're messin' with my Zen Thing, man.....
    7. Re:Actually let them patent it now by Isotopian · · Score: 2, Funny

      If someone builds a warp drive out of the blue, I predict the first major space station built using it will be called the NEO-PO. For Near Earth Orbit Patent Office.

      --

      It's poetry with a beat behind it! And guns! They're like beatniks with automatic weapons.

    8. Re:Actually let them patent it now by B3ryllium · · Score: 1

      They would probably just base it on another planet and "claim" galactic authority on intellectual property.

      I think they would name the world "Ferenginaar".

    9. Re:Actually let them patent it now by tomhudson · · Score: 1
      I'm sure Harry Mudd will be quite happy to sell them genuine dilithium crystals.

      And if the power transfer conduits do rupture, it becomes a warped drive. Come to think of it, I HAD one of those - a cd-rom drive that spat out a cd at something like a gazillion miles an hour (or so it seemed as I ducker REAL fast) :-)

    10. Re:Actually let them patent it now by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I say hot crackers on that.

      We should patent the warp drive now. Then, 20 years down the road when aliens show up we sue their pants off (assuming they're bipeds) for using our patented technology!

    11. Re:Actually let them patent it now by Tablizer · · Score: 1

      The warp drive will not be used down on earth....so it will be outside the USPTOs jurisdiction.

      I finally found a commercial reason to conquer space: put your website on the moon or an asteroid and pesky earth rules don't apply. Napster should have their server on Juno or Ceres!

  7. My rights online by Musteval · · Score: 4, Funny

    Thank you for this useful insight into my online rights. Keep up the good work, slashdot! :)

    --
    Note to mods: I'm probably being sarcastic.
    1. Re:My rights online by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, the US Patent system involves rights. And slashdot is online isn't it. Of course this discussion is exactly where it belongs. Quit whining you pussy!

    2. Re:My rights online by kadathseeker · · Score: 1

      I guess something to do with patents loosely having something to do with YRO. Because, you know, other patents actually affect YRO. Even though this one doesn't. But they're related. So.

      --
      The 'Net is a waste of time, and that's exactly what's right about it. - William Gibson
  8. Re:j public requests release from corepirate nazis by JustNiz · · Score: 4, Funny

    spelling:0 composition:0 see me.

  9. So this is how he makes his $$$ by JoeGee · · Score: 5, Funny

    Warp engine designer: it's nice to see the time cube guy has a day job.

    --

    Get off my virtual lawn, you damned virtual kids!
    1. Re:So this is how he makes his $$$ by sweborg · · Score: 1

      Surely designing warp engines is only his part time job next to doing SEO. Googlebot must love his website.

  10. Legal Action by turtleAJ · · Score: 5, Funny


    Hello Earthlings,

    I'd like to inform you, that ony of my many clients has in posession the MWOCPT titles to all kinds of warp drives. I think that if you where to see the patent, you'd understand we've got everything covered. Obviously, you (Earth) haven't developed gravity control yet... so, because of evolutionary "process" clauses in the Federation, we can't show you the patent. Besides... it's a 18.65TB PDF.

    It's quite obvious that all your human efforts will fail, until you attaint a little bit of element 115. I'll leave you with that. Just so you know, the Orion Confederation doesn't take lightly to violations of Intellectual Property.

    Thank you very much for your attention, and I hope this doesn't repeat itself,

    -Stitch
    Presently @ MilkyWay.Sol.3 (aka, Planet Earth)

    BTW: If you want to survive the next galactical gravity fabric quake, we suggest you hurry up your nanotechnology advances...

    1. Re:Legal Action by jimm · · Score: 5, Funny

      This has to be a fake. The email address should end with @3.Sol.MilkyWay, not @MilkyWay.Sol.3.

      --
      Transcript show: self sigs atRandom.
    2. Re:Legal Action by RubberDogBone · · Score: 1
      I got about this far ...

      I'd like to inform you, that ony of my many clients has in posession

      before expecting to read something about the mighty sum of two hundreds of millions of dollars, tied up in a bank account managed by the cousin of somebody who died in a car accident leaving no known heirs.

      --
      Sig for hire.
    3. Re:Legal Action by neomajic · · Score: 1

      Only 18.65TB? Bring it on!!! I don't need my porn collection, that bad.

    4. Re:Legal Action by Fulcrum+of+Evil · · Score: 1

      This has to be a fake. The email address should end with @3.Sol.MilkyWay, not @MilkyWay.Sol.3.

      Nah, that's a location, not an email address.

      --
      "We returned the General to El Salvador, or maybe Guatemala, it's difficult to tell from 10,000 feet"
    5. Re:Legal Action by isorox · · Score: 1

      BTW: If you want to survive the next galactical gravity fabric quake, we suggest you hurry up your nanotechnology advances...

      BTW: Yes, I'm running wXP.


      Great, Microsoft have a monopoly in outer space too :(

    6. Re:Legal Action by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      it's a 18.65TB PDF.
      Great! that should fit nicely on that 1.2 petabyte HDD they are releasing soon!
    7. Re:Legal Action by syousef · · Score: 1

      Besides... it's a 18.65TB PDF.

      Man, Adobe sure has managed to get their mits into everything, and everywhere!

      --
      These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
    8. Re:Legal Action by Repton · · Score: 1

      Obviously, the rest of the galaxy is using JANET-style big endian names..

      --
      Repton.
      They say that only an experienced wizard can do the tengu shuffle.
    9. Re:Legal Action by stfvon007 · · Score: 1

      The system is seperate than earth's email system, and no earthling showed up at the last intergalactic email standards meeting at alpha centari, even though they would have been welcomed if they came and would have had a vote in the final standard selection. Its not our fault you desided to use an incompatable naming convention.
      - IAFEMNC (Intergalactic Agency For Electronic Mail Naming Conformancy)

      --
      All misspellings and grammatical errors in the above post are intentional and part of my artistic expression.
    10. Re:Legal Action by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As the parent notes, this post must be fake. A True Lawyer (tm) would have offered a regional franchise or royalty arrangement.

  11. What the crap? by Deathbane27 · · Score: 1

    Wait, can they DO that?

    --
    If it ain't broke, it needs more features!
  12. Dumb question by Bombula · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Here's a dumb question from a non-lawyer: how long do patents last? Forever? I ask because if a patent only lasts 15 or 50 or 100 years or whatever, what sense does it make to patent something - even if it's essentially just an idea - if your protection is likely to expire before you take anything to market?

    --
    A-Bomb
    1. Re:Dumb question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      20 years and you have a very good point.

    2. Re:Dumb question by versiondub · · Score: 1

      Seventeen years, to be exact.

    3. Re:Dumb question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And it is 20 years from the day you file your applicatoin

    4. Re:Dumb question by mzwaterski · · Score: 1

      Time to get updated. Under the previous set of rules, utility patents lasted 17 years from issue. Under current rules, utility patents last 20 years from filing (with several exceptions beyond the scope of this discussion).

    5. Re:Dumb question by anothy · · Score: 1

      actually, 20 years for patents filed today. been the case for a while, thanks (in large part, anyway) to the WTO. there's variation: design patents (as in for artwork, icons, or such) last 14 years. 20 is the general case in any country which signed the relevant WTO agreement (most where patents are likely to be relevant).

      --

      i speak for myself and those who like what i say.
    6. Re:Dumb question by blazer1024 · · Score: 1

      I don't know about the time, but the purpose of a patent is to get investors interested in your idea. If you don't have a patent, they won't take your seriously, because if you didn't bother to patent it, it can't be a good idea, right? :)

      So, the goal would be to get some capital and within a few years, bring it to market. (Some people have said they last 20 years... I doubt it would take 20 years to bring a product to market... really) Then you make your fortune before the patent expires. By the time it expires, hopefully you have at least made plenty of money, or even better developed a reputation for your product, that when all the imitators come out later, it doesn't really bother you.

    7. Re:Dumb question by Surt · · Score: 1

      Well, you'd go down in the history books as having patented the warp drive for one thing. Which he will do, regardless of whether his patent is later overturned or not, or whether he ever commercializes or not.

      --
      "Who is the Journal of Quantum Physics going to believe?" --Stephen Hawking
    8. Re:Dumb question by slashname3 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Not so dumb. Personally I have been hoping that they finish patenting everything in the next few years. Then in about 50 to 100 years they will look back on this period of time as a second dark age, where the patent laws were used to squelch advances and prevent deployment of many useful inventions. But once they have patented everything they will run out and all those ideas will be released to people that can actually use them to deploy real products and make the advances that will improve things for every one.

    9. Re:Dumb question by Expert+Determination · · Score: 1

      Um...I don't know many products that take 100 years to take to market.

      --
      "The White House is not an intelligence-gathering agency," -- Scott McClellan, Whitehouse spokesman.
    10. Re:Dumb question by the+eric+conspiracy · · Score: 2, Informative

      20 years. A lot of things are not patented because of the time restriction i.e. the Coke formula. People use trade secrets instead.

    11. Re:Dumb question by cpt+kangarooski · · Score: 4, Informative

      For patents being filed now, they last 20 years from the date they were filed. This is plenty of time to get to market, and remember that you may be able to make improvements and get patents on them so that even when the first patent runs out, you've moved on and your competitors are still in a less advantageous position. Likewise, the reputation you build while you have the patent can provide you with an advantage in the future. For example, patents on drugs such as prozac or viagra will eventually expire, making generics available, but many people will stick with the brand-names they're used to, even if they have to pay more for exactly the same thing.

      --
      -- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
    12. Re:Dumb question by Bombula · · Score: 3, Funny
      Um...I don't know many products that take 100 years to take to market.

      Well, I was thinking this guy's warp drive, for one.

      --
      A-Bomb
    13. Re:Dumb question by JFitzsimmons · · Score: 1

      That was the point.

      --
      Beware he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master. -Anonymous
    14. Re:Dumb question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0


      In the perfectly working patent system...
      You patent a new and novel idea, non-obvious even to people competent in that particular field. This idea actually has a real utility and solves a current market need well. Given this it is not hard to license this technology to other companies and get a small percentage of their revenue which in the end can turn into alot of money for you. That the money train ends after 20 years won't be a huge issue, unless you blow it all or something.

  13. Proposal by m33p · · Score: 5, Funny

    Dear Friend, I am Mr Andrew Peter Worsley and I have an important business proposition for you. On December 12th, 2001, while testing my Warp Drive (patent pending) transport, the ship was stranded in Galaxy N37 due to technical difficulties. The patent office is now demanding that I show it to them before they will approve my patent. But unfortunately, I spent my last penny developing the prototype! As you can see, this patent would be very valuable, and recovering my ship would be a good business investment. I am currently lookinging for investors to gather the $35,273,000 needed to recover the ship. etc, etc, etc... Awaiting your urgent reply. Thanks and regards.

    1. Re:Proposal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

      Fortunately I just got some emails from some very nice people in Africa that have a large sum of money they are willing to split with me. Maybe I should hook them up.

  14. Add your punchline here. by kitzilla · · Score: 1, Funny
    Let's get started, shall we? Warped time is a-wasting:

    1. It should be no problem building a working prototype of this thing -- once they find a supply of dilithium crystals.

    2. Cap'n, she canna work in her current condition. Impulse is the best I can give ya!

    3. ?time warp engines these mean you do What

    Take it away ...

    --
    This is my post. There are many others like it. If you don't like what you read here, go try one of the others.
    1. Re:Add your punchline here. by jacksonj04 · · Score: 1

      Ya canna' change the laws of physics!

      --
      How many people can read hex if only you and dead people can read hex?
    2. Re:Add your punchline here. by Tyger · · Score: 1

      It's worse than that it's physics, Jim!

    3. Re:Add your punchline here. by adric · · Score: 2, Funny

      Due to budget cuts, we're forced to replace the dilithium with Folgers crystals!

      --
      not plane, nor bird, nor even frog...
  15. At the Bottom of the Gravity Well by Alien54 · · Score: 1
    Won't there be a problem if they try to operate it inside the atmosphere, or at the bottom of a gravity well?

    Just speculating on the availability of appropriate test facilities, to prove that the device actually works. Good try on the part of the alledged inventor.

    --
    "It is a greater offense to steal men's labor, than their clothes"
    1. Re:At the Bottom of the Gravity Well by SEWilco · · Score: 1
      "Won't there be a problem if they try to operate it inside the atmosphere, or at the bottom of a gravity well?"

      You're confusing this real warp drive with fictional hyperspace and warp drives.
      Assuming this one is real; this at least is a real design even if it does not work.

    2. Re:At the Bottom of the Gravity Well by Alien54 · · Score: 4, Interesting
      You're confusing this real warp drive with fictional hyperspace and warp drives. Assuming this one is real; this at least is a real design even if it does not work.

      Of course, it a cobbling together of parts in an imagined configuration, borrowed for a well known fictional source, without having actually invented any of the needed sub components, except for the usual nuts, bolts, screws, etc. But not really. There is not real confusion, as the concerns from fiction might be based in actual possible Very Bad Side Effects(tm), among other things.

      • Interaction of drive fields with atmospheric particles may produce wierd radiation, among other things. What happens when these are manipulated by a drive designed to move heavy objects at trans-light speed? Can you say Enviromental impact statement? Significant numbers of these acting in atmosphere might be enough to incrementally remove atmosphere from a planet (by acceleration of atmospheric particals past escape velocity). This would be a Bad Thing(tm). Like hitting your head with a hammer, this is not something you want to do on a repeated basis.
      • Relativistic effects tend to show up only when you are moving fater than one half the speed of light (rough estimate) Maybe the time-space warpage needed to produce thrust can only be achieved at relativistic speeds. Similar to a ram jet, it would need a booster to get to the appropriate speeds for start up conditions. This concern is Subject to Test(tm), and, of course, would be hard to achieve in earth orbit, or from a standing start at Area 51.

      I could go on, but you get the idea. Of course, Arthur C Clarke is credited with the invention of the Communications Satellite, based on a detailed technical destricption he wrote in a magazine, back in 1947. (If I recall correctly)
      --
      "It is a greater offense to steal men's labor, than their clothes"
    3. Re:At the Bottom of the Gravity Well by Baddas · · Score: 1

      part A is totally off the wall. We have no idea how a FTL drive would work, and thus have no grounds to speculate about side effects.

      part B is also totally off the wall, as relativistic effects show up whenever you move at any given speed compared to any other object. It's RELATIVE. So, for example, compared to the center of the galaxy we're moving very fast. But compared to your chair, you are almost still. As a real world example: GPS sats compensate for a real, measured relativistic slowdown in their clocks (because they are in orbit)

      Thought I would inject some physics into things.

    4. Re:At the Bottom of the Gravity Well by fluffy99 · · Score: 1

      The patent doesn't mention FTL travel, just implies propulsion by warping space.

    5. Re:At the Bottom of the Gravity Well by Alien54 · · Score: 1
      We have no idea how a FTL drive would work, and thus have no grounds to speculate about side effects

      I think that it is fair to imagine that there is either a push effect or a pull effect for achieving the desired speeds. The Patent mentions something which implies fields of some sort, since this is not merely a rocket, or similar newtonian thrust mechanism. For the amount of energy needed to move the mass with the appropriate speeds and acceleration, it is hard to imagine that there would be no side effects or atmospheric effects whatsoever. If this involves large amounts of electricity, magnetism, or nuclear forces to achieve the described result, then the effects should be "interesting".

      For some reason, I am reminded of the villinous government agency in "GhostBusters"

      --
      "It is a greater offense to steal men's labor, than their clothes"
    6. Re:At the Bottom of the Gravity Well by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      part A is totally off the wall. We have no idea how a FTL drive would work...

      STOP! Two words: PRIOR ART http://www.npl.washington.edu/AV/altvw81.html http://www.npl.washington.edu/AV/altvw75.html Read the article, as published in Analog Magazine some 10 years ago.

    7. Re:At the Bottom of the Gravity Well by Stelminator · · Score: 1

      The last I understood of what a space warp drive would do was that it would warp space. More specifically, that it would compress space. This compressed space would look the same to anyone traveling through it, but would in fact be "smaller", and would take less time to travel through than if it were uncompressed. The FTL occurs when you travel from one side of the compressed space to the other, faster than light could have through the uncompressed space. However, you need not to actually travel faster than light, and in fact, you still can't. With a large enough compression factor, I could give my spaceship a good kick (with my foot) and it would be "traveling faster than the speed of light". So, with enough warpage, you can use conventional thrust, because you're moving through warped space as though it were regular space.

      The problem I remember with making something that would warp space is that it usually needs to be on the order of a black hole in mass. To create a "warp drive", you would need to create the warping without access to such mass, though you might still need the gravity to do the job. This of course poses its own problems. I think there's also a bit of a problem with not getting warped yourself.

  16. Some common sense in the patent office? by Opportunist · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Well, it's nice to see that at least someone applied some brain before passing a patent. Unfortunately, it's not always so easy.

    My guess is that normally, the patent clercs simply shake their heads, say "don't understand it, but since they wanna patent it, it's prolly working" and pass it. In this case, though, at least "warp drives" are so well known to be science fiction and far from a working model, that it rang someone's alarm bell.

    I wonder, though, if a quantum singularty drive would have been shot down as well. It's not really common knowledge anymore that those don't work (yet) either. Worse yet, they won't be used in Federation starships.

    I really sometimes wonder what kind of approval course a patent has to go before becoming patent. Does anyone who has a clue take a look at all?

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    1. Re:Some common sense in the patent office? by LiquidCoooled · · Score: 1

      Remember, Einstein was a "mere" patent clerk.
      There have at least at some point in history been some brains in the patent office.
      My bet is there are still lots there.
      I would love to have a similar job - vetting other peoples ideas, however it would be better if the patent office actually got inloved and brought together like minded inventors and introduced them to each other, we might advance our civilisation by doing this.

      --
      liqbase :: faster than paper
    2. Re:Some common sense in the patent office? by 1ucius · · Score: 1

      My guess is that normally, the patent clercs simply shake their heads, say "don't understand it, but since they wanna patent it, it's prolly working" and pass it.

      I'd guess their theory is that if it doesn't work, nobody will care if it's patented.

    3. Re:Some common sense in the patent office? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      I'll see what I can do.

      Does anyone who has a clue take a look at all?

      Generally, Examiners have to have a science degree and are usually selected to work in their adopted field. In certain fields, PhDs are common.

      There are several kinds of patent examiners. New Examiners are called simply Patent Examiners. Their job it to understand an application and then research existing public documents (older patents, Dialog, magazines, anything public) for the invention's concepts. The invention doesn't have to be described completely in a single existing document to knock out the application - the Examiner can combine multiple prior arts if "one of ordinary skill in the art" would have done so.

      Thus, Examiners, to be good, must know the prior art, or at least be able to find it quickly. They must also know the patent statutes and PTO regulations as well as patent cases which clarify the statues and regulations. While most Examiners are not lawyers and probably don't know it, they are acting in a legal capacity by adjucating, in effect, whether applications warrent patenting. As you would expect, Examiners examine applications in a narrow field.

      I really sometimes wonder what kind of approval course a patent has to go before becoming patent.

      First, patents supposedly exist as a tradeoff - a limited monopoly on an invention in exchange for disclosing how to make and use the invention. An invention, to be patentable, must have a novel aspect which is non-obvious. Thus, an invention which is novel but obvious to "one of ordinary skill in the art" is not patentable (in theory).

      Now, more to your question.

      The process begins with the filing of the application. The Examiner can "allow" it to issue as a patent or can reject it. If the application is rejected, the inventor can make amendments or legal arguments and the Examiner gets another reply. Applications can issue right away, or the process back and forth can go on. Many applications never issue as patents and some can take decades to issue. It's up to the inventor, who pays for everything, how long to keep trying.

      New Examiners, however, must have their work signed off by a more experienced Examiner. After some years, once Examiners are ready to reach grade 13, they go through a qualification process and if they pass they become a "Primary Examiner". The immediate boss of Examiners is a "Supervisory Patent Examiner" (SPE) who is a Primary who has been tapped to lead what I think is called an "Art Unit".

      Some SPE's are very strict and demanding. It is common for such SPE's to be known to force their new hires to quit (job too demanding) or to fire them. The problem why this happens alot is that SPEs receive bonuses if all of their Examiners achieve certain rankings (i.e. 110% of their expected production). Other SPEs on the other hand may be quite pleasant to work for. Thus you might have a group of Examiners run ragged by their boss just next to another group who can do their weekly work in 1 or 2 days and spend the rest of each week goofing off.

      The point I am coming to is that SPEs control whether or not a new Examiner can issue a patent or not. I heard of one SPE who got an early Java related application and who allegedly said that he would never issue it. Why? Because certain patents are destined to be controversial and the Examiners who issue them generally get paid alot of attention by the PTO upper management. There are those Examiners who seek to stay out of such spotlights. Also, SPEs can refuse to sign off on their Examiner's work if they have an axe to grind with the Examiner (or the Inventor or his attorney for that matter). An SPE can set an Examiner up to be fired by refusing to sign the Examiner's work, thus mandating the Examiner does not meet quota - a side effect of which is denying the inventor his or her patent and requiring the inventor to pay more fees to continue the fight. Yes, beleive it or not, office politics is very much alive in the USPTO.

      In summary, though, most Examiners in my experience are pretty well qualified and pretty well dedicated to doing the best they can within their lot at the PTO.

    4. Re:Some common sense in the patent office? by slashname3 · · Score: 1

      This will be short lived. The patent clerk that denied this patent has been dismissed. As such no more patents will be denied.

      I'm submitting one for a molecular transporter....

    5. Re:Some common sense in the patent office? by rah1420 · · Score: 1

      Well, it's nice to see that at least someone applied some brain before passing a patent.

      The "inventor", on the other hand, apparently passed some brain before applying for a patent.

      --
      Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens.
    6. Re:Some common sense in the patent office? by kansas1051 · · Score: 1

      I really sometimes wonder what kind of approval course a patent has to go before becoming patent. Does anyone who has a clue take a look at all?

      Patent examiners, the individuals who at least initially determine if a patent should be granted from an application, have at least a B.S. in an appropriate field. Many (perhaps 1/4) have advanced degrees (including PhDs), as the USPTO pays for examiner tuition and gives pay grade raises to those with advanced degrees. Examiners also take continuing education classes (also paid for by the USPTO) and classes and seminars regarding patent law and legal writing.

    7. Re:Some common sense in the patent office? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They can't even run a functional website yet, I doubt they will be getting better in the actual examination area.

      It's obvious as all get out, allowing patents for business models and software has near crippled the patent office. Having the US switch to some sort of bogus "IP" based nation, instead of an actual "working" and manufacturing nation, has forced this, and now the US wants to force this on the rest of the world. You can see it's a short range disaster, it will be midrange obvious to even the general public soon, but by then it will be too late to fix, so long range it will create a dozen or so international corporations who own the planet,quite literally.

        They should only allow patents for actual tangible inventions and YES they should require a working model and the time limit should be dropped to ten years, max, then public domain..

      Anything else can be covered under copyright and trademark.

    8. Re:Some common sense in the patent office? by darkmeridian · · Score: 1

      I hate to say this, but the PTO really has no incentive to hunt down the "crazy" patents. Patents have value only to exclude others from using certain technologies. Patents also expire in 17 years after issuance. If the underlying technology does not exist, or is unlikely to come into existance in 17 years, there is really no one to sue. Sure, you can patent "warp drive", but who can you sue? It's a worthless patent. Of course, the PTO looks dumb but no one is being harmed. Patents are worth something only when they protect something valuable; a monopoly to make a useless instrument is itself useless.

      --
      A NYC lawyer blogs. http://www.chuangblog.com/
    9. Re:Some common sense in the patent office? by Petrushka · · Score: 1

      Sometimes those alarm bells ring, sometimes they don't. And I think the margin beyond which they go "I don't unnerstan' it, so it must work eh" is pretty low. Remember the guy in Australia who got the patent office there to grant a patent for a "circular transportation facilitation device"?

    10. Re:Some common sense in the patent office? by pbhj · · Score: 1

      Correct me if I'm wrong but Einstein worked in the Bern patent office (see eg http://www-groups.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/~history/Mathem aticians/Einstein.html). Not in the USPTO.

      I wish some of you would remember that this 'ere intarweb is global ... there are several patent offices. EPO, UKPO, ARIPO, ... if you mean USPTO then please say so.

      >> "There have at least at some point in history been some brains in the patent office."

      You're right. I used to work at the UKPO ... there are some extremely intelligent people working there! Not so many since I left of course ;0)>

    11. Re:Some common sense in the patent office? by pbhj · · Score: 1

      >> "I wonder, though, if a quantum singularty drive would have been shot down as well. It's not really common knowledge anymore that those don't work (yet) either. Worse yet, they won't be used in Federation starships."

      As someone else indicate there is a business costing involved. With some perpetual motion machines it's extremely hard to explain why a system is faulty ... perhaps a constant of integration in some quantum field equations. You'd literally have to be one of the top 10 experts to say, in the 6 hours or so that you've got, why the thing doesn't work.

      Also some patent stuff is on the edges of scientific knowledge ... some well respected companies, eg BAe (I think), have applied for antigravity patents based on graviton activity. Now, gravitons have yet to be observed ... but does that invalidate the patent?

      Sometimes a "it won't hurt if they get this patent" attitude prevails.

    12. Re:Some common sense in the patent office? by arose · · Score: 1

      One of the problems with a large number of useless patents is that people have to go trought them to get the good ones. Think manufacturers using expired patents to solve problems (that's what they are for) and seeing what they might be violating, also patent examiners search prior patents for prior art...

      --
      Analogies don't equal equalities, they are merely somewhat analogous.
  17. Solution by hool5400 · · Score: 5, Funny

    Just call it a software warp drive, or even just include the word software somewhere in the application. Just watch the bastard fly throught the application process.

    --

    Remember, it takes 42 muscles to frown and only 4 to pull the trigger of a sniper rifle.
    1. Re:Solution by CastrTroy · · Score: 1

      No, you've got it all wrong. It's only patentable once you create a warp drive on the internet.

      --

      Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
  18. Reading the patent.. by bigattichouse · · Score: 3, Informative

    seems a bit overdone, I think they pretty much explained freshman quantum physics in the first part... but if you skip down to the bottom, it makes a smidgeon of sense.... I wouldn't doubt that the actual solution is something similar to this, but the problem they would have is that (if the whole electron bit is true) is the immense forces on the armatures and the internal superconductor. Theres a problem is that if you try to push strong magnetic fields into a superconductor, they tend to break down (the property of superconductivity, not the actual ceramics).. so when this thing (if its even possible) starts to lift, it will likely collapse the superconductivity of the internal sphere, and it would fail to lift. You'd still see the difference on a scale, but I would doubt you'd ever get off the "launch pad" in the next 50 years.

    --
    meh
    1. Re:Reading the patent.. by bigattichouse · · Score: 1

      That being said, still seems a bit far fetched.

      --
      meh
    2. Re:Reading the patent.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But wouldn't something like this look like the "Machine" in the movie Contact? We just need to get Jodie Foster to sign up to test it.

    3. Re:Reading the patent.. by Tablizer · · Score: 1

      it will likely collapse the superconductivity of the internal sphere, and it would fail to lift. You'd still see the difference on a scale, but I would doubt you'd ever get off the "launch pad" in the next 50 years.

      You damned Volcans are always trying to discourage us. Well, I say "launch it now!". Take that, you greenblooded depressing elves.

    4. Re:Reading the patent.. by Savantissimo · · Score: 1

      The real way to do it is to use an annular coil of neutronium accelerated to 0.995c in less than a microsecond. The frame-dragging effect provides the "thrust". See Robert Forward's work for more.

      --
      "Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery?" - Patrick Henry
  19. I like the part in the technical example by HotNeedleOfInquiry · · Score: 4, Funny

    Where you rotate a superconductive sphere 1 meter in diameter 1,500,000 rpm. That'll work.

    --
    "Eve of Destruction", it's not just for old hippies anymore...
    1. Re:I like the part in the technical example by Tony+Hoyle · · Score: 1

      I hope it's a damned small sphere.

      Otherwise the surface will get to insane speeds..

    2. Re:I like the part in the technical example by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The grandparent post said "1 metre in diameter". At 1.5 million rpm, that works out to 78.5 km/s. That's pretty fast - fast enough that you'd have a hard time keeping the sphere from being torn apart by its own inertia - but it's nowhere near relativistic speed, and much less difficult than the kinds of physical feats required by other warp drives. If that's the hardest engineering challenge in building this drive, then this design is looking pretty good.

    3. Re:I like the part in the technical example by rumpledoll · · Score: 1

      "If that's the hardest engineering challenge in building this drive, then this design is looking pretty good." You mean apart from the fact the the device is pure bullshit.

    4. Re:I like the part in the technical example by rcpitt · · Score: 1
      Hmmm... off the top of my head, and note that it has been a long time since I've had to do any geometry lately - but circumfrence of a sphere 1 meter in diameter is pi x D which is something like 3.1415... X 1 meter = 3.1415... meters

      At 1.5 million RPM this means a molecule on the surface of the sphere would be travelling something like 4.7 million meters/second.

      Google kindly provided 299 792 458 m / s as the speed of light which means to me that the molecules of the sphere are already traveling faster than light.

      So... to go trans-light you must have parts that can go trans-light. And for my next demonstration I'm going to show perpetual motion

      --
      Been there, done that, paid for the T-shirt
      and didn't get it
    5. Re:I like the part in the technical example by wmspringer · · Score: 2, Informative

      At 1.5 million RPM this means a molecule on the surface of the sphere would be travelling something like 4.7 million meters/second.

      Google kindly provided 299 792 458 m / s as the speed of light which means to me that the molecules of the sphere are already traveling faster than light.


      4.7 million is more than 299 million?

    6. Re:I like the part in the technical example by Just+Some+Guy · · Score: 1
      4.7 million meters/second

      You misspelled "minute".

      --
      Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
    7. Re:I like the part in the technical example by rcpitt · · Score: 1

      seconds, minutes, millions - bah - should have had another cup of coffee ;)

      --
      Been there, done that, paid for the T-shirt
      and didn't get it
    8. Re:I like the part in the technical example by BoneFlower · · Score: 1

      What about time dilation? As the outer portion of the sphere approaches c, time will slow down dramatically. So it may never actually reach c. It will get closer, and closer, and closer, yet never reach it as time itself is warping as it goes.

      It might travel 187 thousand miles in one second, but when one second maps to five years... its not even coming close to c.

    9. Re:I like the part in the technical example by ScriptedReplay · · Score: 1

      Your time never dilates. You would be seeing it go faster than light ... well, actually you wouldn't because it can't accelerate past c.

      That said, 1.5M rpm for 1m diameter gives a tangential velocity of ~4,712 km/min = 282,74 km/s which is about 94.3% of c; that's a mass enhancement factor of about 3 for the fastest-moving part. Still, the total required energy even according to plain classical mechanics is of the order of 10^20 Joules. Good luck to whoever is trying for the working prototype ;-)

    10. Re:I like the part in the technical example by linzeal · · Score: 1

      The only thing that could feasibly power that is antimatter.

    11. Re:I like the part in the technical example by Phroon · · Score: 1
      That said, 1.5M rpm for 1m diameter gives a tangential velocity of ~4,712 km/min = 282,74 km/s which is about 94.3% of c; that's a mass enhancement factor of about 3 for the fastest-moving part. Still, the total required energy even according to plain classical mechanics is of the order of 10^20 Joules. Good luck to whoever is trying for the working prototype ;-)
      Sorry, but that's not the right answer. You got the right tangential velocity in km/min, but you messed up the conversion to km/s. You divide by 60, not multiply by 60. The number should been 78539.8 m/s, which is 'only' 0.000261799 % the speed of light. But it is 230 times the speed of sound. Yeah, it's not going to happen.

      The record speed for a 1.6kg projectile is 3300 m/s, so we are no where close to the velocity needed for this sort of thing.
    12. Re:I like the part in the technical example by B3ryllium · · Score: 3, Funny

      No, it's far worse than that.

      The only thing that could possibly power it is ... antimatter hamsters.

    13. Re:I like the part in the technical example by maynard · · Score: 1

      Yes. You clearly don't understand the "New Math". This is why they're getting patents for Warp Drives rejected by imbecile patent officers while you twiddle away your life flipping bits with that keyboard. Get yourself a Ph.D in net.kookery before it's too late!!!

    14. Re:I like the part in the technical example by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      yeah, serves me right for posting half-asleep. OTOH, reading the actual patent application yields such typical crackpot science that I'm probably more embarrassed by ever posting to the story than by messing up a units conversion. Oh well, slow Sunday I guess

    15. Re:I like the part in the technical example by sconeu · · Score: 1

      That's 4.7 million meters / minute, not per second.

      So, yo've got roughly 750,000 meters per second, or 7.5 x 10^5 m/s.

      The speed of light is about 3 x 10e8 m/s. So you're way less than the speed of light.

      --
      General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
    16. Re:I like the part in the technical example by despisethesun · · Score: 1

      Antihamsters?

      --
      This poo is cold.
    17. Re:I like the part in the technical example by Tablizer · · Score: 1

      seconds, minutes, millions - bah - should have had another cup of coffee ;)

      Were you by chance employed by NASA when that Mars orbiter crashed due to metric-to-english conversion errors?

      Government departments don't subsidize coffee the way commercial ventures do because they don't care about productivity and coffee is a clear line-item expenditure that is not covered in congressional or legistlature appropriations.

    18. Re:I like the part in the technical example by sasdrtx · · Score: 3, Funny

      Contrary to conventional wisdom, all 1m diameter spheres have the same diameter.

      --
      Most people don't even think inside the box.
    19. Re:I like the part in the technical example by drxenos · · Score: 1

      I know it's a joke, but it's not really true. 1m spheres in different inertial frames will not be the same size.

      --


      Anonymous Cowards suck.
  20. I bet that by g0bshiTe · · Score: 4, Funny

    that clerk is a /. reader.

    --
    I am Bennett Haselton! I am Bennett Haselton!
    1. Re:I bet that by nomadic · · Score: 1

      Can't be, the clerk spelled all the words correctly in their letter, and used proper grammar.

    2. Re:I bet that by HotNeedleOfInquiry · · Score: 1

      James Maxwell Clerk?

      --
      "Eve of Destruction", it's not just for old hippies anymore...
    3. Re:I bet that by tob · · Score: 1

      Tha clerk's a reader, not an poster.

      Tob

    4. Re:I bet that by StormReaver · · Score: 1

      "I bet that the clerk is a /. reader."

      You posted that in jest, and got moderated as funny, but that isn't such a stretch. If you go to Groklaw and read the reports by people who were at the patent reform conference, you'll see that at least one patent examiner present at the meeting mentioned Slashdot as a good source of prior art information.

      Slashdot ran a previous story on the warp drive patent application, so it's not unthinkable that the application was reviewed by a Slashdot reading patent examiner.

    5. Re:I bet that by g0bshiTe · · Score: 1

      I was not aware of an actual examiner citing /. as a prior art source, I was however making the connection between the original /. offering of a patent being applied for.

      It is interesting though that at least some of them have their thinking caps on.

      Besides, I think if anyone got the patent it should be Mr. Roddenbury's estate.

      --
      I am Bennett Haselton! I am Bennett Haselton!
  21. PTO waking up or is NASA greedy?? by Chanc_Gorkon · · Score: 1

    Hmm....either the PTO is waking up and doing something it should do for a majority of it's patents (NTP vs RIM anyone??) or NASA has looked at this and said....WOW....we could USE THIS!

    On the otherhand, I don't believe for s second that this guy really has invented a WORKING FTL drive.

    --

    Gorkman

    1. Re:PTO waking up or is NASA greedy?? by CaptnMArk · · Score: 1

      It wouldn't have to be FTL to be useful. Intertialess would be a good start.

    2. Re:PTO waking up or is NASA greedy?? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh stop using sci-fi acronyms. He never said it was a faster than light engine... it simply warps space/time.

    3. Re:PTO waking up or is NASA greedy?? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ... it simply warps space/time.

      So does my flatulence - but do you see me rushing to the Patent Office and getting dibs on the Advanced Bipedal Gastro-Intestinal Release System?

  22. Even if presented with a working model... by bsandersen · · Score: 2, Funny

    Based on my experience with the Patent Office, even if they were presented with a working model it would still take them four years to process it.

    -- Scott

    1. Re:Even if presented with a working model... by mgh02114 · · Score: 1

      Based on my experience with the Patent Office, even if they were presented with a working model it would still take them four years to process it.

      You don't get it! They need the FTL drive so that they can travel back through time. They are asking for a "working model" because they are planning to use it to solve their problem with a four year backlog of applications.

  23. The applicant's mistake... by geobeck · · Score: 1

    ...was not submitting a patent request for 'one-click Worsley-Twisting'.

    --
    Find environmentally and socially responsible products on http://buy-right.net
  24. Warp drive? Wonderful! by Mistshadow2k4 · · Score: 0, Redundant

    Anything that might get you frigging humans off my planet is worth trying.

    --
    I dream of a better world... one in which chickens can cross roads without their motives being questioned.
  25. This "device" gives new meaning... by Safrax · · Score: 1

    to the phrase "spin up the FTL drive."

  26. have the rules changed? by the_wesman · · Score: 4, Insightful

    hi - at my company, we hold a lot of patents. In fact, there's a program in which people at the company can submit patent ideas and our legal department checks them out and sees if they exist/are viable/etc. I submitted one last year (that already existed - damn) and while speaking with one of the lawyers he mentioned, quite empatically, that whatever is being patented does not actually have to exist. According to him, you can patent a process or software or hardware that has no working proof of concept. I think the idea of submitting a patent on something that can never exist is pretty lame, but on the other hand, I don't think that people should be allowed to call dibs on patents just so they can wait for somebody else to do the work and then sue them. It's tough to find a same medium. how close is too close (or too far) from the realization of an idea for it to be patented?

    --
    calling all destroyers
    1. Re:have the rules changed? by NiteShaed · · Score: 1

      It seems to me the test should be workability. If I say "I'm patenting the warp drive", and that's about all I have to offer, then no patent. If I say "I'm patenting the warp drive, and here are my designs that show how it will work", patent. This way, even though I don't have 15 billion dollars and my own R&D department to build a prototype, my work is protected. If someone builds the warp drive as described in my designs, my rights as the designer are protected. If someone develops a warp drive that has nothing to do with my designs, I get nothing.

      Also, I'm only commenting on patents on actual devices, software, etc. This post is not intended to address "process patents", which are a whole differnt bucket of snakes.

      --
      Some bring out the best in others, some the worst. Some bring out far more.
    2. Re:have the rules changed? by DRJlaw · · Score: 1

      Your lawyer is correct. An invention does not actually have to exist in a physical sense, and there does not have to be a working proof of concept. There are two thresholds of invention for patentability:

      1. Actual reduction to practice - you build it, and it works for its intended purpose.
      2. Constructive reduction to practice - you file a patent application that contains a description that teaches someone of ordinary skill in the art how to make and use the invention (and satisfies the other requirements of 35 U.S.C. sec. 112).

      The first consists of "I built it", the second consists of "I could've built it, but I didn't." In both cases, the application is required to be detailed and accurate enough to teach others how to make and use the invention, and since that's the policy goal, it's immaterial whether there's a working model or not.

      You cannot call dibs on an invention. You either have intellectual possession of the invention when you file the application, or you do not. That being said, you are free to disclose and claim an imperfect invention, which would prevent anyone else from selling perfected versions of the invention that rely on your inventive concept. That's perfectly fair, because the improvements are either obvious once the concept becomes known (so why is the perfected form patentable but the imperfect form not?) or themselves patentable, in which case the original inventor can prevent later comers from selling the improved invention, but the inventors of the improvements can prevent the original inventor from selling the improved invention as well, leaving the imperfect embodiment. That conflict is at least one of the driving forces behind the cross-licensing of patents.

    3. Re:have the rules changed? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Richard Feynman described getting a patent on a nuclear-propelled aircraft, simply because he was working on the Manhattan Project and the scientists had been asked to think up things that could be done with atomic energy. The aircraft didn't (and still doesn't) exist, even as a prototype.

      From Magoo's Universe:

      "At Los Alamos he became the youngest group leader in the theoretical division of the Manhattan Project. With the head of that division, Hans Bethe, he devised the formula for predicting the energy yield of a nuclear explosive. Feynman also took charge of the project's primitive computing effort, using a hybrid of new calculating machines and human workers to try to process the vast amounts of numerical computation required by the project. He quite litrally observed the first detonation of an atomic bomb on July 16, 1945 at Alamogordo, N.M. as the radios issued to warn everyone not to look didn't quite work properly, he looked up just as the bomb went off, he saw the incredible flash and formation of the now very familiar mushroom cloud Although his initial reaction was euphoric, he later felt anxiety about the force he and his colleagues had helped unleash on the world.



      While Feynman was working in Los Alamos, it became clear that he was at the level with the intellectual giants of his day. Whilst here he made the patent for an atomic submarine and an atomic airplane, although at the time he was only suggesting ideas for applications of the work being done to a patent officer, only some time later did he discover that the patents were actually attributed to him."


    4. Re:have the rules changed? by cgenman · · Score: 1

      how close is too close (or too far) from the realization of an idea for it to be patented?

      Speaking blue sky and not legaleese? I think that you should have an actual physical working prototype to patent something. Patents really should only be issued to people who are bringing things to market. Anything else is abuse of the system.

    5. Re:have the rules changed? by typical · · Score: 1

      See, that's a really good example of why patents are broken. The only reason nobody had made a nuclear-powered aircraft before was because nuclear power didn't exist yet. There's no benefit to society in granting a monopoly over nuclear-powered aircraft to the first people who happen to start filing patents on something.

      If I'm an engineer and I'm building an airplane and I have, say, five different types of power sources that I can use, and one's characteristics fit my needs well, then of course I'm going to use that power source.

      Feynman was perfectly justified in suggesting these things as applications of a technology. What should *not* be done is taking obvious *applications* of a technology and patenting them.

      --
      Any program relying on (nontrivial) preemptive multithreading will be buggy.
    6. Re:have the rules changed? by petermgreen · · Score: 1

      2. Constructive reduction to practice - you file a patent application that contains a description that teaches someone of ordinary skill in the art how to make and use the invention (and satisfies the other requirements of 35 U.S.C. sec. 112).

      the problem i see with a constructive reduction to practice is how do you prove it indeed will teach someone of "ordinary skill in the art" how to make and use the invention other than by getting someone with "ordinary skill in the art" to make it for you? I'm guessing the USPTO don't have the rescourses to go building models of every item that someone tries to patent.

      --
      note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
  27. Patents on "ideas" by cyberlotnet · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I have no problem with people getting a patent on an "idea" or software concept as long as the person can

    1. Show no prior art
    2. Has intent to use said patent.

    Patents are meant to protect a inventory from LOSS due to stealing of a persons idea. They where never meant as a profit center.

    I should not be able to think up and idea and then just sit on it until someone else decideds to try and use it.. Wait even longer then sue them for using it once they are worth money.

    1. Re:Patents on "ideas" by typical · · Score: 1

      I have no problem with people getting a patent on an "idea" or software concept as long as the person can.

      I do have a problem.

      The issue is that patents do not address the case of obvious ideas that have not been done before because they simply make no sense in the environment -- but now do make sense because the environment has changed. Obviously, if flash memory has always been expensive in the past, you can't make a flash-memory based MP3 player. That doesn't mean that there's any benefit to society in allowing that idea to be patented. That *takes away* the ability of anyone else to make something like it.

      A good patent is for something that represents a large jump forward (not something that's a trivial or obvious-to-any-expert-in-the-field idea), required a large amount of funding to produce (the reason for the patent is to subsidize the necessary research to produce valuable ideas), and is narrow enough that it does not affect a broad swath of products.

      Frankly, I haven't seen anything like this.

      Software patents have a huge array of fundamental problems. Software is a fast-moving field, but the term of patents means that they hugely slow down adoption. Right now, patents granted in the 80s are still valid. That's an eternity in the computer world. Yes, of course people come up with new ideas constantly; that's simply a characteristic of the field. Doing so is already funded through the production of software.

      Software expands to fill markets very quickly, but is very slow to reverse-engineer and reimplement. This holds compared to almost any other patentable product (a new yo-yo, a pencil sharpener design, etc). This makes it very easy to make back the development investment by simply selling the software -- no patents are required.

      Because the marginal cost of production of software approaches zero, open source can exist. Because of the inherent costs associated with use of patents, software patents are highly incompatible with open source. The value that open source software provides to today's computing world is immense. Windows' TCP stack (unless they've rewritten it) came from BSD, most webpages that are served to you come from open source software, etc. I argue that the value of open source software is significant enough that the damage presented it by software patents far exceeds the benefits of any sfotware patents.

      The bulk of software patents has reached the point that it is simply impossible to write software without infringing on patents any more (at least in the US). Your only hope is that nobody tries enforcing those patents.

      No, I really don't like software patents at all.

      --
      Any program relying on (nontrivial) preemptive multithreading will be buggy.
  28. Re:j public requests release from corepirate nazis by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    While I was reading that, apart from my brain melting I half expected the post to end in a "YOU ARE eduCAATED STUPID FOUR EARTH DAYS IN TIME CUBE ".

  29. First CPU... by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

    Whatever happened to the guy who submitted football diagrams for inventing the first CPU before everyone else? He's one of those "I got a patent after the fact and you're gonna give me money to avoid a lawsuit" type.

  30. I'd like some dressing with my... by Majik+Sheff · · Score: 1

    There is actually a term for this...

    Word Salad

    --
    Women are like electronics: you don't know how damaged they are until you try to turn them on.
  31. Whoaaaa by Joffy · · Score: 2, Funny

    The Phantom of the Opera wants a warp drive?

  32. Damn... by Onuma · · Score: 1

    So I suppose my patent for the flux capacitor will be expected to come with a working model?

    --
    What else can happen when an unstoppable force collides with an immovable object?
    1. Re:Damn... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No problem. Just wait 30 years for Doc Brown to invent it, then steal his Delorean, come back in time 30 years, give it to the younger version of yourself, and take it to the patent office.

  33. It's not stealing by MarkByers · · Score: 1

    'stealing of a persons idea'

    <pedantic>
    It's not "stealing" because when you copy someone else's idea, you do not take that idea away from them. They still have the idea after you have copied it.
    </pedantic>

    --
    I'll probably be modded down for this...
    1. Re:It's not stealing by horatio · · Score: 1

      I might be missing something here, but I was reading a business model essay from ~1995 a couple of weeks ago. One company specifically mentioned was Sony. They've come up with some really incredible ideas and made them into products - like the Walkman. Patents were never within the scope of this paper, but the author talked about how Sony wanted to stay on top and to do so they continued to innovate and create new products. Other companies cloned their products and sold them as knock offs. I really don't understand what changed in the patent law that allows things like NTP/RIMM. Not interested in starting an NTP/RIMM flame war, it just goes to my point.

      Each of them came up with an idea of how to do something (this is a process?) but RIMM marketed a product. NTP sat on it their version of the patent. Is there any evidence that RIMM broke into NTP's offices and stole plans for the Blackberry? I guess I just can't figure out how such generic ideas about how to accomplish a task could be patented and then turn into a big huge lawsuit.

      AFAIK, and I could be wrong, Sony never sued anyone for cloning the portable cassette player. I understand capitalism and everyone has a "right" to make money off of their own ideas. However, my impression is that the current patent/DMCA situation has done more to stifle innovation than to encourage it. Who wants to invent something only to make some money and some jackass comes along after you're successful - with his lawyers - to claim that he is entitled to your profits?

      So you come up with an idea for a better GPS system. I happen to come up with the same idea, completely independently of you. Why can't we both market our products instead of getting sued by someone else who thought up a similar, but more generic method, 2 years ago and just sat on it, waiting for someone else to happen to come up with a similar idea? Why does it seem that it is no longer true that you and I could go into business together and (gasp!) improve on that third party's idea with a new product?

      Another example to illustrate. Thomas Edison invents the lightbulb. He patents his method for "using electrical energy passing through a sealed chamber of inert gases to generate light" (I don't know the actual patent phrasing.) Can he be sued by the inventor of the gas street light? Can Edison sue the maker of the flourescent bulb? It sounds ridiculous, and IANAL but thats what it seems to me is basically going on.

      --
      There is very little future in being right when your boss is wrong.
    2. Re:It's not stealing by cyberlotnet · · Score: 1

      If a company copies someone elses idea and puts out a matching product they directly affect the original persons ability to make money, so in sense they "steal" the original persons oppurtunity to profit from there idea.

      But then I would guess your someone who copies music from the internet and other people because its not "stealing" and therefore with your logic your not hurting anyone.

      A persons choice to download instead of purchase and support the artist, and there family is not "stealing", your just making a "copy" so its all ok.

      Give it a rest, yes cd's are overpriced and the record labels are idiots but 2 wrongs do not make a right.

    3. Re:It's not stealing by NewStarRising · · Score: 1

      'its not "stealing" and therefore with your logic your not hurting anyone.'

      There are many ways to hurt someone without stealing from them.
      Assault.
      Slander.
      Libel.
      Copyright Infringement.
      Etc.

      The pedant did not make any distinction between being hurt or not. Just in the name of the action.

      --
      b3 4phr41d 0f my 4bov3-4v3r4g3 c0mpu73r kn0wI3dg3!
      MadDwarf
  34. Slightly off topic, but speaking of patents... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There is an interesting article on this guys site about software patents [Math You Can't Use]: http://patentlaw.typepad.com/patent/2006/02/book_r eview_mat.html

  35. Give me a toy or shut up by SEWilco · · Score: 2, Interesting

    This is the same way Art Bell kept mechanical kooks off his radio show. Anyone who claims to have a perpetual motion machine design is told to send a model. When he gets a toy which runs forever then he'll gladly discuss it.

    1. Re:Give me a toy or shut up by B3ryllium · · Score: 1

      Aww, that's a cute way of saying "never". :)

    2. Re:Give me a toy or shut up by eric76 · · Score: 1
      This is the same way Art Bell kept mechanical kooks off his radio show.

      That is, the supply of kooks is so great that he can use this as a criteria to filter out some of the kooks that would otherwise be ideal for his show?

  36. Re:j public requests release from corepirate nazis by Bazzalisk · · Score: 4, Funny

    What's that skip? Timmy's trapped down the well?

    --
    James P. Barrett
  37. Make it so. by slashbob22 · · Score: 1

    I got nothing.

    --
    Proof by very large bribes. QED.
  38. I doubt it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "most of the examiners in the electrical arts know more about electronics than you guys."

    Why do you that, because they can tell a ceramic cap from an electrolytic?

    In any event, no, their knowledge is limited and laughable. I agree most of /. falls into that category too, but I'm including you in that analysis.

    No offense.

  39. don't know if it's a paradox... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... but he can use his device to go back in time and kill the examiner.

  40. That's actually bad news by Kohath · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Just grant him the patent. Then, if there's anything real there, the patent will have expired by the time anyone has to worry about it.

  41. Working Models by nurb432 · · Score: 1

    Back in the beginning this was a requirement, i think.. You brought in a shoebox to show them along with your filings

    --
    ---- Booth was a patriot ----
  42. This just means ... by jc42 · · Score: 1

    At least one examiner is paying attention!

    They'll probably submit it a few more times, with different titles and slightly different wording, until they hit a patent examiner who's not paying attention. Then they'll withdraw the others.

    Or maybe they won't withdraw them. If I have N slightly differently-worded patents on the same thing, can I sue someone N times for violating all of them, and collect N x damages?

    IANAPL, but it'd be nice to know such things, to get an idea of just how absurd the patent law thing has gotten.

    --
    Those who do study history are doomed to stand helplessly by while everyone else repeats it.
  43. Stark contrast.... by mavenguy · · Score: 3, Informative

    ....to how this space drive patent application was treated. When this earlier patent was discussed on Slashdot I made a comment discussing how the patent just sailed through without a single question being raised about operability.

    The difference? I can't really determine the exact reasons, not being privy to the cirumstances surrounding the prosecution of each application, but one fact is that each was examined by a different examiner. I can speculate on the disparity of treatment, however. It is another fallout from PTO management's 30+ years of emphasis on meeting production and timeliness goals over substantive quality aspects of examination, quality meaning finding and applying relevant prior art and passing judgement on issues such as operability (I don't include aspects such as including software and business methods as patentable subject matter or creating a high standard of proof to support obviousness rejections, since these have been imposed externally by the courts).

    The PTO's response to issues of quality has been to establish an entire subbeaurocrocy dedicated to "Quality Review", which has all the pitfalls of centralizing such essential values outside of the main operation. The main failure is how one expects a small core of people, no matter how expert they are in the examination process, to possess the same depth of knowledge as even a mediocre examiner in a give art. PTO management then compounds this with a punitive aspect; if QR "kicks back" an application the examiner will get charged with an error, yet the QR reviewer doesn't have the same kind of production pressure as the working examiner to grind out cases; telling someone "you should have spent more time searching this case" isn't particularly helpful if it doesn't explain how one chooses the other applications from which this time should have been taken.

    The negative publicity concerning examination quality has, finally, reached the attention of PTO's upper level management, but, it is an open question if they will recognize that just heaping more "review" on the process will not actually result in an improvment, but that a fundamental return to the ethic of a genuine quality examination is the way to go.

    1. Re:Stark contrast.... by AJWM · · Score: 1

      ....to how this space drive patent application was treated. When this earlier patent was discussed on Slashdot I made a comment discussing how the patent just sailed through without a single question being raised about operability.

      Well, the difference is that Volfson did have a working model. The fact that he swiped it from Area 51 was hushed up because of embarrassment over the breach of security.

      --
      -- Alastair
  44. no, wrong point of view... by l3v1 · · Score: 1

    ...that is, warp drive ? Hell, let them work on it if they want. We should patent the software and its interfaces that would control a warp drive, from every possible angle and aspect. That way it won't matter if they can patent a warp drive, they won't be able to use it unless they pay you bucks/engine :) learn from MS, and you shall be rich :P

    --
    I am putting myself to the fullest possible use, which is all I can think that any conscious entity can ever hope to do.
  45. It could go badly by FidelCatsro · · Score: 1

    When they finally bring in the Working model and those comedy Dollar signs replace their pupils ..
    just at that moment some Vulcans will come to earth and we will enter a new era of utopian communism .
    Thus any point the patent had will be worthless , they simply can not win.

    --
    The only things certain in war are Propaganda and Death. You can never be sure which is which though
    1. Re:It could go badly by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Even more amusing are the other patnets listed in the bottom of the article for sending information back in time. What would be the point of patenting such a device? If someone else made a functional model, they would just send the design back to a time before you patented it.

      The existance of time travel (backwards) breaks the patent system, don't bother patenting it.

  46. of course by stewwy · · Score: 1

    you are not a company we recognise as one of our sponsors, so of course we're going to check if your 'invention' is real

  47. Booo what a pity! by SharpFang · · Score: 1

    You can't patent the same thing twice. If they passed the patent today, by the time the warp drive is invented it would be expired and nobody would be able to patent the drive then.

    --
    45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B2
    1. Re:Booo what a pity! by a_n_d_e_r_s · · Score: 1

      Sadly they will just patent a "new and improved" warp drive then.

      --
      Just saying it like it are.
  48. No way, it has to be patented already! by BrookHarty · · Score: 1

    Come on, IBM and Microsoft must have already patented that, they already are up to Borg technology and Transporters.

    1. Re:No way, it has to be patented already! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well yeah, I think we call "Borg Technology" XBOX Live.

  49. Sort of off topic... by KennyG944 · · Score: 1

    I wonder how many times a patent application has resulted in men in black suits showing up at the door of the person applying for the patent? For example, let's say someone files a patent application for some new type of weapon or something that could be of interest to the military. I could imagine a scenario where men in black suits show up and confiscate all data and information related to someones patent then threatens them with their life if they continue any related work. But even if you were granted a patent for a new weapon, would the details of the patent be kept under wraps?

    1. Re:Sort of off topic... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      yanno, Einstein as a patent office clerk...

  50. Re:j public requests release from corepirate nazis by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    spelling:0 composition:0 see me.

    Posts like this, I wish I had Mod points...

  51. Easy Answer by Clith · · Score: 1
    .. so that when it becomes possible to impement the idea, nobody else can patent it.

    e.g. a warp drive becomes possible in say 2046 - and the patent on the warp drive expired in 2023 because it was granted in 2006.

    Voila!

    --
    [ReidNews]
  52. Silly rule by werdna · · Score: 1

    What possible benefit would there be to occlude the Patent Office with "working models" of things for which there is no serious question whether it can work, other than to take up space and add expense to the legitimate independent inventor's efforts to secure an invention? The reason for doubting whether a warp engine can work is wholly legitimate, you know, because faster than speed light of macroscopic massive objects is -- well -- contrary to most modern physical theories.

    In general, the office is frequently inundated with inventions that would violate the laws of physics or thermodynamics. Not that laws aren't meant to be broken, but in such cases the Office is well within its rights and duties to ask the inventor to put up or shut up. It should be noted that they do not do this, even of most cutting edge inventions, because they recognize that independent inventors rarely have the financial resources to realize their "working models."

    Sure, bring in your working model atomic bomb, let's take a look. . .

    1. Re:Silly rule by AJWM · · Score: 1

      What possible benefit would there be to occlude the Patent Office with "working models" of things for which there is no serious question whether it can work

      Probably not much -- but on the other hand, if there "is no serious question whether it can work", the invention is probably too bloody obvious to deserve a patent. Certainly there may be exceptions where the inventor has an "aha!" moment and the solution to a previously intractable problem is now obvious in hindsight (the explosive lens design for an implosion type fission bomb, to work off your example). I'd probably settle for a thorough analysis that shows why it works in that case.

      --
      -- Alastair
  53. I think one of us has a broken calculator by wasted · · Score: 1

    ...That said, 1.5M rpm for 1m diameter gives a tangential velocity of ~4,712 km/min = 282,74 km/s

    How did you get that?

    If I did my math right, 1,500,000 revolutions per minute X 3.14159264 equals 4712388.96 meters per minute, which equals 78539.816 meters per second, which equals 78.539816 kilometers per second.

  54. 20yrs by TubeSteak · · Score: 1

    20 years + Extensions

    I can' speak about patents in other fields, but when it comes to drug patents, 20 years is not the end.

    While there are many possible reasons to get extensions, the easiest one for most companies is to run a trial ftheir drug on children. Instant 3 yr extension.

    And, if all else fails, a company can try to get Congress to pass a law extending their patent. It's legal.

    --
    [Fuck Beta]
    o0t!
  55. The NSA did it first... by Lazarian · · Score: 1

    There was a previous slashdot article (about four months back, I believe) where it was mentioned that the NSA had applied for a patent for a gravitic drive. The patent application itself was so broadly worded that it basically covered every concievable implementation of how such a device could possibly work, even though it was shooting in the dark in every possible direction.

    It doesn't matter anyway. If anyone ever came up with a reactionless drive, the USTPO could just issue a secrecy order if they wanted to cover it up badly enough.

    BTW, does anyone remember an article here from a long time ago where some researcher developed a super-efficient electric motor? He -claimed- he had a test rig set up where a 9 volt battery was running a household fan with the same work output as a regular AC driven fan. None of my search efforts turned up anything.

  56. It's a good thing: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    He did not try to patent the Illudium P-38 Explosive Space Modulator!

    Would that be a WMD?

  57. Why? by Chrontius · · Score: 1

    Why would the MIB want you to *stop* developing a weapon that they'd find useful?

    The MIBs would show up at your doorstep bearing a check with more zeroes than you can count, if you finish the device and grant them exclusive use of the resulting IP.

  58. or... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    the nice mr cochran can just shoot the vulcan with his shotgun and loot the ship and start a galactic empire

  59. Actually... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The Simpsons already did it.

  60. Re:Man that's not funny! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    u had me reaching for my checkbook ;)
    hahahaha

  61. Re:Proposal - THIS IS A FAKE!!!!! by atrocious+cowpat · · Score: 2, Funny


    "Dear Friend, I am Mr Andrew Peter Worsley and I have an important business proposition for you. [...]"

    THIS IS AN OBVIOUS FAKE!!!! EVERYBODY KNOWS, THAT ANY SERIOUS BUSINESS PROPOSAL WOULD BE IN CAPITAL LETTERS (and if weren't for that darn Slashdot-"Lameness-Filter" this joke could actually have worked the way I intended it),

    YOURS FAITHFULLY,
    DR. CLEMENT OKON
    (CURRENTLY USING THE SLASHDOT ACCOUNT OF MY GOOD FRIEND ATROCIOUS COWPAT)

    --
    sig? Oh, that sig...
  62. It happens regularly. by absurdist · · Score: 1

    Just as one example I'm personally familiar with, a friend of mine invented and received a patent on a process to electrochemically deburr gun barrels after machining. Prior to this, said deburring was a lengthy, expensive mechanical process. Of course, he invited out representatives from the military to check out the process as part of having it certified for mil-spec work. Within the week his company was seized and shut down, and all of his equipment as well as the process was deemed classified. He was eventually compensated for the seized equipment, but never for the patent or the potential profits he would have made from it.

    1. Re:It happens regularly. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why did your friend not go public with the news?
      This sort of thing needs to go to the media world-wide. Obviously, since you know about it he was not threatened with keeping it secret... therefore, I'm a bit hesitant about actually believing the story, sorry :)

    2. Re:It happens regularly. by absurdist · · Score: 1

      Yes, he WAS threatened with keeping it quiet at the time. This was in 1969. Since then, the technology has been declassified, as well as the gag removed on him.

  63. Its a US patent :D by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Have you read the application? Should be easy to build and test this as it does not demand anyhting to special. Looking at this though, its a US patent, so being based in the UK we could get the jump on them.

    Who knows, spinning disks with a current flowing through may just work. Shame they had to claim it as a warp engine though.

  64. PatentDot ??? by martyb · · Score: 3, Interesting

    How about a Slashdot for Patents???? Given the knowledge and interest I've seen displayed here, and the fact that the SlashCode is available, I really think this could work!

    Features: Here's a rough, back of the envelope, sketch of how it could work:

    1. Getting patents A demon could periodically check the USPTO site, and create an article for each new patent application it finds.

    2. Categorizating Patents would be categorized into different "departments". Hmmm, could a Bayesian filter come up with a short list of recommendations? These could be attached to the article as options for "High-Karma" users to select (or offer something better). As soon as some threshhold (say 10 votes) is reached, the article is moved from the NEW department to the selected department.

    3. Moderating This could procede as it does here on slashdot, but the comments' focus could be to examine the patents:

      • Provide references to PRIOR ART.
      • Discuss the [IM]POSSIBILITY of the application.
      • And, of course, HUMOR would be encouraged!

    Benefits Offhand, I see this would:

    • provide a venue for those who are proficient in the area to comment
    • help the beleagured patent office, and
    • inform readers as to the workings of the PTO.

    What have I missed? I know there has to be SOMEthing! Thoughts? Ideas?

    1. Re:PatentDot ??? by RoadkillBunny · · Score: 1

      What have I missed? I know there has to be SOMEthing! Thoughts? Ideas?
      You forgot to patent it.

      --
      Cheers,
      RoadkillBunny
    2. Re:PatentDot ??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      quick, patent it before someone steals your idea!

  65. Re:j public requests release from corepirate nazis by Geoffreyerffoeg · · Score: 1

    So finally we have proof that the 9-year-old Slashdotter is not just a stereotype.

  66. Damn! That foils my ST Patent plans! by cnerd2025 · · Score: 1

    I was going to file my Warp Drive patent tomorrow. Now I guess I'll have to file my patent for the Varon-T Disruptor. Or even better, a phasing cloak. If they asked for a proof-of-concept, I'd simply say, "it's invisible!"

  67. Real resaon for rejection by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The applicants are not American

  68. NIMBY by Tablizer · · Score: 1

    PTO has requested a working model of a Warp Drive for which a patent was recently applied.

    Please don't test it in my country.

  69. Actually, they should grant this one by kimvette · · Score: 1

    They should grant this one! If the theory is sound and it works, it is unlikely we'll see an operable FTL engine before the patent runs out - which means that ANYONE can offer an FTL drive based on this design when they become feasible. This would be a patent working against itself because they will not be able to patent the same thing again later on. :)

    Of course, if Disney gets involved, expect "limited time" to be equated to "eternity" where patent terms are concerned. :(

    --
    The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
  70. A day in the life by Tablizer · · Score: 1

    Imagine what was going thru the PTO's clerk's mind when they first opened this. He/she probably spent the week reviewing solar-powered nose tweazers, auto-flushing toilets, ant nip, neon fishing bait, and a new envelope that seals via earwax instead of saliva. Then you grab the next packet and see warp drive...

  71. This Guy? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Physicist Bruce DePalma's "N-Machine"
    http://www.mufor.org/nmachine.html

    1. Re:This Guy? by Lazarian · · Score: 1
      I finally found the /. article about the motor...

      http://science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/04/1 5/1928229

      The original japan.com link seems dead, and the claims about the motor seems like a bunch of crackpottery.

      I may have been mistaken about the NSA patent article. It was a while ago, and I could have confused it with this one...

      http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/11/12/18 8243

  72. Re:j public requests release from corepirate nazis by Savantissimo · · Score: 1

    Perhaps he's the reincarnation of James Joyce.

    --
    "Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery?" - Patrick Henry
  73. Late to the party for much benefit. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How nice it would have been if they had done this for wireless email.

  74. Seagate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I think Seagate is already working on 1,500,000 RPM drives. ... Seagate Warp Drives ... .

  75. if this is it - by jpellino · · Score: 1

    application 20030114313 Worslet and Twist - then nearly all of this is a rehash of physics equations - 388 paragraphs of this stuff, then 12 paragraphs of claims, and a hundred paras of examples.

    I'd love to be there when these guys show up with a couple of pringles cans, a car battery and some carefully made "flux capacitor" labels.

    --
    "Win treats sysadmins better than users. Mac treats users better than sysadmins. Linux treats everyone like sysadmins."
  76. Dupes by Bob_Villa · · Score: 2, Funny

    You forgot about dupes of course! We'll end up with duplicate patents using your method.

  77. No the rules have not changed by EmbeddedJanitor · · Score: 1

    You don't have to provide a working prototype. However there are many reasons an examiner can reject an idea. One of these is lack of novelty (you get a rejection citing a reference and you can resubmit showing how your invention is different and unique). Another is have to provide a demonstration of sorts to show that it would work. For example, warp drives and perpetal motion mechanisms are likely to be rejected as impossible. If you can provide a demonstration that overcomes the examiners objection then you're back in the game. Start Trek reruns will probably not be sufficient.

    --
    Engineering is the art of compromise.
  78. I'm patenting God tomorrow. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Tomorrow I will lodge my application to patent God.
    Since in the USA "In God We Trust", they must approve the patent.
    I will then claim licence fees on all derived works.

  79. Good post by G00F · · Score: 1

    Mod parent up, as this was a most excellent post.

    Why don't I ever find these gold nuggets of information when I have mod points . . .

    --
    The spirit of resistance to government is so valuable on certain occasions that I wish it to be always kept alive
  80. +5 Informative by back_pages · · Score: 1

    +5 Informative is the only appropriate moderation for the parent.

  81. time travel? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    maybe someone in the future has come back to the present via the device in this recently published JP patent application. ;-)

    I wonder if this one will be granted..

    *swiped from a mailing list I'm on* - translation credits to Paterra.com

    JP2006-050900A, published 2006-2-16, Wormhole time machine

    Claim 1

    A device-embodied space wormhole time machine that sees
    worm anomalies (future) and is guided by the following theory:

    i) Pulses of negative energy only are fired into an
    artificial, electrified mini blackhole.

    ii) Since pulses of negative energy are invariably followed
    by pulses of positive energy, these are cancelled with a negative
    electrode to yield only pulses of negative energy.

    iii) Thus, a place where a worm anomaly (future) can be
    viewed at length arises.

    iv) Furthermore, since only pulses of negative energy are
    taken out, one can make a space wormhole time machine.

    No IPC or FI classification was assigned.

    Inventor:
    Isao KAJISA
    2-9-1 Nagao, Kokuraminami
    Kitakyushu, Fukuoka, Japan

  82. No, no. No model is necessary. by MickLinux · · Score: 1

    No, no, no. There's no need to turn anything in. The patent submitter simply needs to clarify that this is a business model for computer usage that he's patenting.

    --
    Correct Horse Battery Staple: 72 bits of entropy. Enter "Correct H" into google. When it generates the phrase, that's
  83. Re:Too bad..software should get same standard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is like the eighty pound woman who takes a man's job in a place that requires heavy lifting, cannot do the work, so she finds 'nice men' to do the work for her. Again and again and again.... This is bull. If software is 'assumed to be able to do whatever job is given a bye by a patent office and hardware must answer a higher standard, then a fraud of monstrous proportions is being commited on the people of this nation these software companies. One needs ask a question that seems everyone is afraid to ask. Software is by definition on its own 'End User Lie-sense-ing Aighhreement not worth the media it is coded on. Read your EULA's! Any of them! They ALL deny any and all of even the most basic of promises to perform, even the basic common law promise of merchantability or fitness. No software product that I know of agrees on its EULA to perform to its claims on the sealed and uninspectable box in which it was packaged when sold to you. None of them promise to refund any more than the cost of a blank CD except a few games whose publishers know beforehand that those games are only contracted legally to be sold in outlets that do not refund software purchases under any circumstances, like Wal-Mart. Court action to compel a fifty dollar refund from such a company would be a multimillion dollar futility with the likes of the corporate whores now sitting as judges on our higher courts before whom the cases would ultimately have to be decided a generation of obfuscations and legal maneuverings hence. Again the question everyone is afraid to ask! The five hundred pound turd in everybody's living room the we all pretend is not there!
    Why is'nt software held to a quality standard? Why is'nt software held liable when it fails? Why do the stupid
    and blind British continue to use an operating system like windows to operate its capital ships in the face of repeated crashes resulting in some of their most expensive and newest capital ships being dead in the water and virtually defensless in the face of any enemy, time after time after time. What does it take to drive the point home to people that software cannot be given a bye on performance. What does it take to stop idiots from persecuting quality investigators trying to bugs in some 'copyrighted wonderous version One-point-Oh(no)' that has never worked but you better not try to find out why? What great tragedy of bibical proportions has to happen before someone will demand the same reliability of software and the acceptance of the same in the shrinkwrapped 'agreements' accompanying those 'packages'? When will the extortion of the world's software consumers end.
    And the biggest question of all. Why do we lie to ourselves by continuing to have faith in the present systematic shakedown of the world's software consumers? If we are going to naturally assume some fellow's 'warp drive' is not real until a working model is given to a patent officer who as far as the history of the patent office in this country goes may well be a microsoft employee, then why do we accept software patents that are so general that they could as well patent all the vowels in the Roman Alphabet and deny three thousand years of prior use and work? Einstein was a poor patent clerk when he published his theory of electrodymanics and relativity. He published mathematical constructs, and his e=mc^2 is imcomplete as there are other terms in that equation. This fellow's warp drive rendered in hardware may be exceedingly expensive to build and require highly skilled persons to test if it were real, and it is by no means automatic that he/she is a crackpot any more than the crackpot idea of Wal-Mart to patent the lazy susan checkout turnstiles. Do we then say that only the wealthy can patent expensive devices? This person's warp drive may well be dangerous to use near a planet. Do we then say that along with his device hardware he must also invent a space shuttle able to transport his device to a safe operating distance from Earth and/or any nearby affectable body? A black-ligh

  84. Intellectual Property and "Joe Inventor" by CarpetShark · · Score: 1
    Most of your other points are good ones, but I have to disagree on this:

    Why should they spend a billion dollars to fab the first version of the chip just so they can ship it to Washington so a patent clerk can validate its worthiness?


    In cases like this, I think it's the duty of business to donate the required technology to governmental organisations, so that they can keep up. If you want to prove your case to the patent office with software they don't have, then you should provide them with an unlimited license to that software. But then, I also think that any software technology that enables people should be available to all members of society. Otherwise, those "Joe Inventor"-types "working in a garage" are being limited, and so society and technology is being held back. I'm NOT pointing fingers here, but to finish my point... those who use intellectual property to do that don't deserve the protection of our society's intellectual property laws.
  85. Business plan by jmorkel · · Score: 1

    Step 1: File patent
    Step 2: Profit

    1. Re:Business plan by Ihlosi · · Score: 1

      You forgot "Step 1.5: Sue."

  86. a sad state of affairs by maxpublic · · Score: 1

    This is actually a pretty sad state of affairs, when you think about it. It makes the news when the PTO actually rejects a ridiculous patent, because the rejection of ridiculous patents has become so unusual. Just think - the idea has to be as outlandish and insane as a *warp drive* to get the patent office to say "no", and even then the act of saying "no" has become so rare that it's now newsworthy.

    Max

    --
    My god carries a hammer. Your god died nailed to a tree. Any questions?
  87. Re:j public requests release from corepirate nazis by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Where's my Moron to English / English to Moron dictionary?

    * rustle *

    Ah - here it is.

    U sUx0rz n00b.

  88. Can RIM use this? by fygment · · Score: 1

    The Blackberry was a working model. The patent on the technology had no working model. So ....

    --
    "Consensus" in science is _always_ a political construct.
  89. No it's not stealing by jgoemat · · Score: 1
    If a company copies someone elses idea and puts out a matching product they directly affect the original persons ability to make money, so in sense they "steal" the original persons oppurtunity to profit from there idea.

    But then I would guess your someone who copies music from the internet and other people because its not "stealing" and therefore with your logic your not hurting anyone.

    So by your logic, if I cut out a singer's tongue, I would only be stealing from them since I took away their oppurtunity to profit from their ideas?

    Just because someone objects to the improper use of the English language doesn't make them an anti-copyright fanatic or an anarchist. By using the terms "theft", "stealing", and "piracy" when talking about violations of the copyright laws you are doing a disservice to everyone.