Slashdot Mirror


Golf in Space

deeptrace writes "Tentatively scheduled for a spacewalk this summer, a Russian cosmonaut will take his trusty six iron and a special weightless-friendly tee and put a golf ball into orbit from outside the International Space Station. The golf ball has an embedded transmitter so that it can be tracked as it orbits. It is expected to orbit for 3 to 4 years before burning up on re-entry. The golf shot is the result of promotional fees paid to the Russian space agency by a Canadian golf club manufacturer."

251 comments

  1. That's a really big.... by tansey · · Score: 0, Troll

    "Four!"

    1. Re:That's a really big.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Fore", not "Four".

    2. Re:That's a really big.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Four!"

      First off, it's spelled "Fore!", and secondly, it's said to alert other golfers that there is a ball in the air, so they can watch their heads - which is what concerns me about this little stunt. The last thing we need in orbit is a small, hard, relativly massive, fast moving object with no steering. About the time this thing strikes a sattelite, the Canadian golf company is going to dread what their little PR stunt has done.

    3. Re:That's a really big.... by too_old_to_be_irate · · Score: 1

      Yep. It's an even bigger 'Fore!'

      Tsk. Youngsters today.

    4. Re:That's a really big.... by kfg · · Score: 1

      And the reason the word is spelled "fore" is because it's not a number, it's a direction. The opposite of "aft."

      Look out ahead.

      Although if your swing really, really sucks. . .

      KFG

    5. Re:That's a really big.... by 'nother+poster · · Score: 1

      Ummm. It's a diminuative of forward which was in common use in Scottland. It is used to mean "Look out if you're in front of me!" since that is the assumed trajectory of the ball. Obviously those ancient Scotts didn't recon on my slice.

    6. Re:That's a really big.... by cavtroop · · Score: 2, Informative
      Actually, thats only partially true. When golf first started, they had a guy called a 'fore-caddy' - his job was to walk out in front of you, to see where your ball landed, and guide you to it after you hit it.

      Calling out 'Fore!' let him know to keep an eye out for the ball.

      Nowadays, it just kinda means 'duck!' though :)

    7. Re:That's a really big.... by jerlensla · · Score: 1

      Typically when someone yells, "fore!" they are yelling to the people they just hit into in front on them. So insteand of fore, why don't they yell "Aft!" Because the people are probably going to be hit in the back of the head. Then it would probably just get too confusing because then you'd have to consider wether the people you are hitting into are facing you or not. I mean, it could be, "fore, aft, starboard, or port." But, I suppose it's the least they could do for hitting a bad shot.

    8. Re:That's a really big.... by kfg · · Score: 1

      "Typically when someone yells, "fore!" they are yelling to the people they just hit into in front on them. So insteand of fore, why don't they yell "Aft!"

      Because there's no accounting for people.

      KFG

    9. Re:That's a really big.... by Rei · · Score: 1

      Yeah. I mean, it's not like anyone in the world actually tracks space debris or anything, nor is it like this thing will reenter in a few years since it doesn't have stationkeeping, has low inertia, and is in a low orbit.

      --
      I was watching this thing on TV about some guy named Hitler. Someone should stop him!
    10. Re:That's a really big.... by cbiltcliffe · · Score: 1
      Although if your swing really, really sucks. .
      If your swing is that bad, the "Fooorree!" will be followed immediately after by "Fuuuucckk!!", thereby letting people know that there's an errant ball on the loose.
      --
      "City hall" in German is "Rathaus" Kinda explains a few things......
  2. Great... just what space entrepreneurs need... by Dr.+Zowie · · Score: 5, Insightful

    is another piece of slightly-too-small-to-track, large-enough-to-annihilite-your-windshield piece of 23,000 MPH space junk to worry about.

    1. Re:Great... just what space entrepreneurs need... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A "slightly too small to track" golf ball... with convenient transmitter designed to be tracked?

      Think, McFly! Think!

    2. Re:Great... just what space entrepreneurs need... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      ... with convenient transmitter designed to be tracked
      until it breaks.
    3. Re:Great... just what space entrepreneurs need... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Let's see... the ISS orbits at an altitude of 360km, or 6738km from the earth's center. So the relevant spherical surface is 570520836.73584km^2. The cross section of a golfball is, what, ~0.0001km^2? So the ratio is around 5,705,208,367,358. That is assuming that everything is constricted to same spherical plane parallel to the surface of the earth, which they are not.

      The chance that this golf ball will hit anything is best approximately by the number zero.

      I might further note that objects in geosynchronous orbit at the same altitude tend to have pretty much the same velocity. For astronatuts, the threat is from a 50mph golfball, not a 23000mph golfball.

    4. Re:Great... just what space entrepreneurs need... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...until it breaks...

      by plunging into the atmosphere...

    5. Re:Great... just what space entrepreneurs need... by N3WBI3 · · Score: 1
      I might further note that objects in geosynchronous orbit at the same altitude tend to have pretty much the same velocity. For astronatuts, the threat is from a 50mph golfball, not a 23000mph golfball.

      (1) The iss is not in geosync
      (2) What if it hits you going the other way?

      --
    6. Re:Great... just what space entrepreneurs need... by steveo777 · · Score: 1

      Dude, if your commute takes up up there enough to worry about that golf ball, then you really have some other issues to work out... or you have the coolest car ever. Want to car pool?

      --
      This sig isn't original enough, it's time to come up with something witty...
    7. Re:Great... just what space entrepreneurs need... by cbiltcliffe · · Score: 1
      (2) What if it hits you going the other way?
      Can you hit a golf ball at 46,000 mph? Didn't think so. Neither can Tiger Woods.
      --
      "City hall" in German is "Rathaus" Kinda explains a few things......
    8. Re:Great... just what space entrepreneurs need... by N3WBI3 · · Score: 1

      In terms of relative motion on an object going 46,000mph yes I can. All I have to do is drop it and then in a location on the path of travel come to a relative stop! Or be on an orthogonal orbit which crosses points at the same time! Worse yet on a non orthognal path with a velocity which is in the opposite direction..

      --
    9. Re:Great... just what space entrepreneurs need... by cbiltcliffe · · Score: 1

      This golf ball is going to be moving in roughly the same orbit as the ISS, +/- 50 mph.

      So lets say we have a satellite in orbit which we're worried about being hit by this golf ball. Maybe it's just me, but I'd think the 370 metric ton ISS would make a significantly bigger impact than the golf ball travelling 50 mph faster.

      Who in their right mind is going to put anything into an orbit which intersects the ISS orbit? Except possibly the extraterrestrial cell of Al Qaida, in which case this golf ball might be the best thing that we could do to protect the ISS from terrorist strikes.

      --
      "City hall" in German is "Rathaus" Kinda explains a few things......
    10. Re:Great... just what space entrepreneurs need... by N3WBI3 · · Score: 1
      This golf ball is going to be moving in roughly the same orbit as the ISS, +/- 50 mph.

      The space shuttle and the International Space Station (ISS) move at speeds of 7.5 kilometers per second (17,000 m.p.h.) with respect to the ground.

      So the Golf ball will be moving at 17,050 mph

      but I'd think the 370 metric ton ISS would make a significantly bigger impact than the golf ball travelling 50 mph faster.

      Though its easier to adjust the orbit of the ISS than it is the golfball, and honestly its not going to hit too many satellites at that altitude, more liekly a shuttle of some sorts.

      Who in their right mind is going to put anything into an orbit which intersects the ISS orbit?

      Your under the assumtion that the golf ball will go exatly straight along the orbital path of the ISS ant not diverge. Can you in a space suit hit a golfball so that the direction of its velocity would match exactly the ISS? Didn't think so. Neither can Tiger Woods.

      --
    11. Re:Great... just what space entrepreneurs need... by cbiltcliffe · · Score: 1
      Your under the assumtion that the golf ball will go exatly straight along the orbital path of the ISS ant not diverge. Can you in a space suit hit a golfball so that the direction of its velocity would match exactly the ISS? Didn't think so. Neither can Tiger Woods.
      It's going to have to, otherwise it will burn up pretty damned quickly. If he fires it up relative to orbit, in 1/2 an orbit it will be back where it was, altitude wise, but heading down into the atmosphere. At 3/4 of an orbit it will be at it's lowest point, deep into the atmosphere. A few turns like this and it will have slowed down enough to drop like, well, a golf ball.
      If he fires it down, well, the same thing will happen, but 1/2 orbit sooner.
      The only chance of it having a significantly different orbit but staying aloft a long time is if it's sent off to either side, but still horizontal relative to the ISS orbit. Horizontal shifts would be a heck of a lot easier to judge than vertical, and a heck of a lot easier to get accurate with no gravity, so I don't think that would be much of an issue.

      Three to four years? Heck. I'm not sure I'd give this thing three months in orbit.
      --
      "City hall" in German is "Rathaus" Kinda explains a few things......
    12. Re:Great... just what space entrepreneurs need... by Almost-Retired · · Score: 1

      Well, lets setup a scenario I don't like, and which invites all the rocket scientists among us to get out their calculators for exersize.

      Assume he hits it in the same direction as the station is traveling, thereby giving it an orbital boost. A good hit (but probably not while in a space suit) might give it an extra 200 mph. So its orbit will expand, and will be higher than the station for a while. But that higher orbit also takes more time, so the station will overtake it and pass it eventually, probably within a week or so. From then on, the ball falls farther and farther behind, gradually getting a whole orbit out of synch.

      Now, a year passes while both orbits are decaying, and eventually the supply ship will need to burn a few thousand pounds of fuel to give the station a boost.

      At some point in the future would it not be possible that the ball is headed south at its 57 degrees inclination while the now boosted station is headed north at its 57 degree inclination, and that the paths could intersect? Given the orbital velocity of both is in the vicinity of 17,500 mph, what would be the approach velocities in that case?

      Food for thought.

      I don't think I'd want to stick up a gloved hand and try to catch that puppy to keep it from hitting the station. Even a bullet from a 220 Swift would be moving a heck of a lot slower in relative terms. The golf ball I expect weighs 200x the 220's 45 gr slug. I think I'd rather be Javelin catching at the olympics, its safer. :)

      --
      Cheers, Gene

    13. Re:Great... just what space entrepreneurs need... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A transmitter which will likely last days at best, and which the USAF can't/won't use to track it anyway (they just use radar & optical observations). And even if they could track it, most stuff couldn't manauver if they did see it coming. And most won't see it coming because almost nobody does collision avoidance analysis - primarily because the USAF won't publish data with sufficient accuracy to perform the analysis.

    14. Re:Great... just what space entrepreneurs need... by drew · · Score: 1

      As you pointed out, the ISS is traveling at 17,000 miles per hour. No amount of force that could be imparted by a person to a golf ball via a golf club would be able to put the golf ball into a meaningfully different orbit than that of the ISS. I did the math in an earlier comment. Even if the cosmonaut intentionally hit the golf ball perfectly perpendicular to the ISS' line of travel, at a speed of 250 mph, it's orbit would only be 0.8 degress off the orbit of the ISS. If he can get it within 30 degrees of the right direction, it's less than half that.

      Can Tiger Woods hit a golf ball at 250 miles per hour?
      Didn't think so. Neither can a guy in a space suit.

      --
      If I don't put anything here, will anyone recognize me anymore?
    15. Re:Great... just what space entrepreneurs need... by esampson · · Score: 1
      ...The golf ball I expect weighs 200x the 220's 45 gr slug....

      Man, I'd love to see the impact a 19 pound golfball (45g x 200 = 9kg) would make, assuming someone could hit it as far as a regular golf ball.

      Forget worrying about divots. That thing would leave craters. :)

    16. Re:Great... just what space entrepreneurs need... by Almost-Retired · · Score: 1

      grains of bullet weight != grams of weight, and I'm too lazy to do that conversion. And its why I said to get out the calculators.

      In any event, the crater size is immaterial since what you'd really want to do is figure out how to get your suit on and sealed in 20 seconds or so while the air is blowing out the golf ball sized hole where it came in, and the saucer sized hole where it went out the other side.

      --
      Cheers, Gene

    17. Re:Great... just what space entrepreneurs need... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Assume the station has a circular orbit at an altitude of 352 Km (6730 semi major axis).

      If you hit the ball right down the station's velocity vector, it's orbital eccentricity would increase from 0 to 0.02337 The point where you hit it is now perigee. The apogee is now at 674 Km (6891 km semi major axis). The orbital period is about 3.5 minuts longer.

      Now if the earth were actually round, they would remain coplanar, and eventually the golfball might hit the station at that same 200MPH that it left with - if the difference in orbital periods were the right fraction of the original period, etc.

      In practice, the earth is not round.It has a distinct bulge around the middle we call J2 and it gives rise to the J2 perturbation, which rotates the orbit plane westward in inertial space for inclinations less then 90 degrees. For this altitude & inclination it on the order of 5 degrees per day. It also pulls perigee around a bit as well.

      In any case, this perturbation is a function of satellite altitude. Since our satellites now have different altitudes, their planes are being rotated westward at slightly different rates. So the situation you have described could come to pass.

      By my calc, the space station rate is ab 5.2 degrees/day. The rate for the golfball is about 4.8 degrees per day. So, in about 1.25 years the situation you described will come to pass - the ascending node of the station will be coincident with the descending node of the ball.

      The $1e+9 question is - given the periods of each, and the varying altitude of the golfball, will they every be at the same place at the same time? This is left as an exercise for the student. For bonus points, include the effect of drag on both objects and historical trends in orbit raising for the station.

    18. Re:Great... just what space entrepreneurs need... by esampson · · Score: 1
      Doh! My bad. I forgot that gr is the abbreviation for grains. Obviously the bullet doesn't weigh 45 grams unless you are talking about a .50 machine gun round or something similar.

      Using grains instead of grams produces a golf ball which weighs a bit over one pound which is only off by one order of magnitude instead of two.

    19. Re:Great... just what space entrepreneurs need... by geekoid · · Score: 1

      if only it had a radio transmiter in it...

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    20. Re:Great... just what space entrepreneurs need... by Almost-Retired · · Score: 1

      And in either event, given the result, a certified never mind only effecting the debris cloud's expansion velocity. :(

      I'd say it would be visible from sea level given decent binoculars in either case.

      --
      Cheers, Gene

  3. Satellites by blindcoder · · Score: 1

    Extra Kudos for hitting a TV Satellite during the soccer WM! I give him 5 EUR if he manages to do that.

    --
    See my blog for my free opinions.
    1. Re:Satellites by hamburger+lady · · Score: 1

      "you better pray to god that thing doesn't carry the spice channel."

      --

      ---
      Is this the MPAA? Is this the RIAA? Is this the DMCA? I thought it was the USA!
  4. Great, more space junk by PIPBoy3000 · · Score: 1

    It'll be like that Seinfeld episode where the technician reaches deep into the innards of a downed satellite, only to pull out a golf ball with a tiny antenna.

    1. Re:Great, more space junk by antifoidulus · · Score: 1

      Yes, but how many people would claim to be a space geek to attract women?

  5. Burning up? by Nuclear+Elephant · · Score: 1

    It is expected to orbit for 3 to 4 years before burning up on re-entry.

    Or until it makes a hole-in-one in the tailpipe of an orbiting winnebago.

    1. Re:Burning up? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Lone Star!

  6. Other sports by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Apart from squash, I can't think of any other earth bound sports that can be easily and quickly adapted to zero gravity.

    With the obvious exceptions of drawf tossing and fly fishing of course.

    1. Re:Other sports by stupidfoo · · Score: 1

      How about Racquetball?

    2. Re:Other sports by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Lawn Darts!

    3. Re:Other sports by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Clay-Pigeon shooting

      You get a whole load of small objects to try to track, weaponry in orbit, and the targets look like flying saucers... what more could any sane man ask for?

    4. Re:Other sports by SEWilco · · Score: 1
      "Apart from squash, I can't think of any other earth bound sports that can be easily and quickly adapted to zero gravity."

      This adaptation is sort of missing a target, sand traps, water hazards, trees, playable terrain, and the 19th hole. At least the latter is being worked on.

  7. Wow... by hcob$ · · Score: 1

    Send a Russian in to space on a Canadian's dollar, and you get a man playing with his little balls and tee in zero G

    --
    Cliff Claven
    K.E.G. Party Chairman
    Founding Leader of: Koncerned for Egalitarin Governance
  8. Yeah, we don't have enough junk in orbit by Digital_Quartz · · Score: 1

    This is the stupidest idea I've ever heard. We already spend a lot of time and effort tracking the junk that's floating around in orbit without putting stuff there intentionally.

    Getting hit by a golf ball travelling 27,734 km/h would REALLY suck.

    1. Re:Yeah, we don't have enough junk in orbit by irchs · · Score: 1

      Not if you are travelling at a similar speed in the same direction...

      That's assuming they will hit the golf ball in the same direction as most people tend to put things into orbit...

      ok, I thought again, this is actually retarded.

      Is it a hoax?!

      Jan

      --
      Jan
    2. Re:Yeah, we don't have enough junk in orbit by Tango42 · · Score: 1

      If you're stationary at that altitude you should be more worried about falling back down than about the very slim chance of getting hit by a golf ball. If you're in orbit you'll be moving at roughly the same speed as the ball - the only way you could have a large difference in speed is if there is a large difference in eccentricity of your orbits, however I expect both you and the ball will be in roughly circular orbits (if you get hit during the short time before you circularise your orbit you're *very* unlucky).

    3. Re:Yeah, we don't have enough junk in orbit by Retric · · Score: 1

      I smell a basic assumption... Ever hear of a Polar orbit?

    4. Re:Yeah, we don't have enough junk in orbit by Pollardito · · Score: 1
      ok, I thought again, this is actually retarded.
      virtually everything about golf is retarded, they're keeping with the theme. i'm just wondering where they're going to obtain a plaid space suit, that's probably the most expensive part of the project.
    5. Re:Yeah, we don't have enough junk in orbit by Tango42 · · Score: 1

      A polar orbit would increase the respective speed, yes, but it also decreases the chance of a collision quite drasticly.

    6. Re:Yeah, we don't have enough junk in orbit by Retric · · Score: 1

      Overall your more likely to hit a polar orbiting object becasue you would pass though the orbit of more than one object. Yes the chance of hiting a single object in a single pass is vary low but when you have 100's of them and your orbiting every 11 min...

    7. Re:Yeah, we don't have enough junk in orbit by Tango42 · · Score: 1

      11 minutes? That would be a height of about 1600km above the centre of the Earth - well within the Earth itself (R=6400km). What did you mean?

    8. Re:Yeah, we don't have enough junk in orbit by Retric · · Score: 1

      I was thinking orbit time /2 as you the objects could cross paths twice per orbit. But, I don't know why I was thinking orbital time was 22min LEO is closer to 90 which makes it 45 ish. Thanks for the correction.

  9. I bet by Tx · · Score: 1

    I bet that ball's going to go a fairway.

    Sorry.

    --
    Oh no... it's the future.
    1. Re:I bet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you are dumber than a sack of shit

  10. Yardage? by redmoss · · Score: 1

    So I wonder how many yards it will travel in 3 or 4 years before it burns up? This is going to be the longest drive ever.

    1. Re:Yardage? by bk4u · · Score: 1

      Well since it's orbiting, it should keep returning past the spot it started at negating the yardage, so basically the farthest it can go is the diameter of the circle crerated by it's orbit.

      --
      Remember kids, with great power comes great opportunity to abuse that power
    2. Re:Yardage? by HaydnH · · Score: 4, Informative

      "So I wonder how many yards it will travel in 3 or 4 years before it burns up? This is going to be the longest drive ever."

      From TFA:

      "The ball is expected to travel up to 2.1 billion miles before it drops back into the atmosphere and burns up."

      <sarcasm>I know it's a really hard conversion, especially for the techie crowd on /.</sarcasm> - that's 3696 billion yards.

      --
      Time is an illusion. Lunchtime doubly so. - Douglas Adams
    3. Re:Yardage? by BMonger · · Score: 1

      http://www.google.com/

      2.1 billion miles to yards

    4. Re:Yardage? by Phisbut · · Score: 1
      Well since it's orbiting, it should keep returning past the spot it started at negating the yardage, so basically the farthest it can go is the diameter of the circle crerated by it's orbit.

      And you can't really measure the yardage until the ball lands and comes to a stop... and since this ball will never land (it will disintegrate before landing), it'll never count.

      Plus, if you count distance from where it was launched, and keep in mind that the space station keeps on moving after the ball stops, it'll eventually catch up and then negate the actual drive distance, and then making it negative afterwards. In real golf, when I drive, it doesn't matter if the balls travels a whole lot, if it lands behind where I was when I hit, I ain't happy.

      --
      After 3 days without programming, life becomes meaningless
      - The Tao of Programming
    5. Re:Yardage? by HaydnH · · Score: 1

      From google: 2.1 billion miles = 3 696 000 000 000 yards

      <pedantic comment>That's not necessarily true, TFA doesn't mention if it uses the American billion (most probable) or the British billion (3 extra 0's)... while google is possibly correct, it could also be wrong if the article uses the British billion. However 2.1 billion miles = 3,696 billion yards as long as both sides of the expression use the same billion.</pedantic comment>

      You can slap me now =)

      --
      Time is an illusion. Lunchtime doubly so. - Douglas Adams
    6. Re:Yardage? by broller · · Score: 1

      Also, it only travels a small fraction of that yardage. It just travels it more than once. :) I guess it's a bit like saying that your Earthly golf drive only travelled one yard, 300 times, but in golf, the distance it travelled through the air doesn't count. The only thing that counts is how far away it is when it lands from where it was when it left the ground.

    7. Re:Yardage? by LordSnooty · · Score: 1

      Whatever the distance, it's out-of-bounds. Take a penalty stroke.

    8. Re:Yardage? by iphayd · · Score: 1

      Yeah, that's if he doesn't duff it.

    9. Re:Yardage? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Correction: "American billion or the real billion"

    10. Re:Yardage? by SirBruce · · Score: 1

      Actually, since they're talking about orbits, I highly suspect they're talking *nautical* miles, since that's what one would naturally calculate with. Unless they calculated in kilometers, and then converted to statute miles. Too many questions about potentially sloppy media reporting to really say for sure.

      Bruce

    11. Re:Yardage? by whmac33 · · Score: 1

      There was recently some article in some paper about some guy going on the longest flight ever.

      Wouldn't any space shuttle flights completely destroy any longest flight records?

    12. Re:Yardage? by cylcyl · · Score: 1

      You forgot:
      "Take that, Tiger Woods!"

    13. Re:Yardage? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What's that in metric yards? Or better yet, since the ball will be going in circles, why not deduct the number of orbits around the earth from the final number.

  11. Does he get a mulligan ... by MrFlibbs · · Score: 1

    ... if he hits it off the toe and dents the ISS?

    1. Re:Does he get a mulligan ... by clawoo · · Score: 1

      He`ll have two more unemployed balls to worry about...

      --
      This is not your signature.
  12. What is the stroke penalty by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    for losing your ball to an alien?

  13. isn't there already enough junk in space? by LinuxRulz · · Score: 1

    ... apparently not!

  14. Oh please god yes by mccalli · · Score: 4, Funny
    Please. Please send golf into space. As long as it's all golf, and a very long way away from me. A very very long way away from me. Where do I donate? This is a cause worthy of funding.

    Cheers,
    Ian

    1. Re:Oh please god yes by stand · · Score: 1

      How can someone with such an obviously Scottish name as Ian McCall say such things about golf? Next thing you know, you'll be telling us that haggis tastes like dog poop or something.

      --
      Four fifths of all our troubles in this life would disappear if we would just sit down and keep still. -C. Coolidge
    2. Re:Oh please god yes by mccalli · · Score: 1
      Next thing you know, you'll be telling us that haggis tastes like dog poop or something.

      We had some haggis on Burns' Night one time. It was appalling, so we put it out for the birds. Next day...not a single bird would go near the damned thing.

      Cheers,
      Ian
      (actually three Scottish names with all the right heritage - Ian Chisholm McCall. English though, I've not often been in Scotland).

  15. If the golf ball punctures the side of the ISS.... by digitaldc · · Score: 1

    ...does he get a hole in one?

    --
    He who knows best knows how little he knows. - Thomas Jefferson
  16. In other news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ISS was catastrophically impacted by a golf-ball. Yep - makes for the longest drive. And in other news - a Space Caddy Help Wanted ad recently appeared in international newspapers. No experience necessary, vomit-bags supplied on demand.

  17. Sienfeld episidode by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    I see another Seinfeld moment:

    Castanza: Space was angry that day, cosmic rays were crashing all around me. The alien was dying so I reached inside his tentacle and found this....

    Kramer: Is that a Titalist?

    Castanza: nods...

  18. IN SOVIET RUSSIA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Golf Ball Tracks YOU!!!

  19. It could be worse.. by Rob+T+Firefly · · Score: 1

    ..at least its not a promotion by the caber-tossing industry.

    1. Re:It could be worse.. by gstoddart · · Score: 1
      ..at least its not a promotion by the caber-tossing [wikipedia.org] industry.

      I'm not sure how much of an industry we're talking about.

      A caber is, after all, just a tree trunk. It's not like you need an 'official' caber from a specific manufacturer.

      Just think how far you could throw it in a low-G environment. But, then you'd need space kilts or the Scotsmen would all cry foul. =)

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    2. Re:It could be worse.. by Art+Tatum · · Score: 1

      Between golf and caber tossing, I think we can safely ask, "What the hell is it with the Scots, anyway?"

  20. It's all fun and games... by theraptor05 · · Score: 1

    until someone punches a massive hole in a communications or GPS bird.

    1. Re:It's all fun and games... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If he kicks it backwards, then it should fall into the well fast enough to get out of the way of any existing satellites. Although given the 62 degree orbital inclination, it will have a fair dV with respect to most of the stuff launched into an equatorial LEO.

      Whatever happened to asteroidal mining?

    2. Re:It's all fun and games... by XMilkProject · · Score: 1

      yeast pee

      roflmao.

      --
      Big ones, small ones, some as big as yer 'ead!
      Give 'em a twist, a flick o' the wrist...
    3. Re:It's all fun and games... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      LOL thankfully Comm and GPS birds are a few thousand miles higher in altitude than the ISS. I'd say their safe from an ugly slice.

  21. gah... by everphilski · · Score: 2, Insightful

    (1) how fast can you swing IN A FREAKING SPACESUIT?
    (2) the speed of the space junk will be the speed of the space station, +/- the speed of your swing (see (1))
    (3) there is a very thin atmosthere at low earth orbit deteriorating the orbit of anything there, further slowing the golf ball with time
    (4) due to the nature of the spin of the earth and the fact that you get a boost from it, all spacecraft are launched in the same direction.
    (5) therefore any collosion with the golfball at a later time will be at a velocity SLOWER than the swing, far slower than any other piece of space junk out there, and definitely not a threat. Not to mention there is a TRANSMITTER in there. They will see it coming and wave

    1. Re:gah... by Dr.+Zowie · · Score: 1

      It's true that the golf ball will be going around in something like the ISS orbit (as you point out, there's not much delta-vee in a golf swing) -- but not everyone launches into that orbital plane. Speed of impact for a different orbital plane goes something like 23,000 mph * sin(theta). So, er, I stand corrected: "...Nothing like a 5,000 mph side-window-annihilating golf ball..."

      It's also true that the golf ball, like other small space junk, will eventually re-enter. Will the transmitter still be working then? Nobody knows.

    2. Re:gah... by 'nother+poster · · Score: 1

      Boy, you have no idea how orbits work do you? Simple physics example here. Lets say the cosmonaut is orbiting at X mph. When he hits the ball it will take off in a different direction lets call that Y which is the added vectors of his original orbit and the impulse he just gave the ball. Now Y is moving several thousand miles an hour else it would simply fall to the earth. Now lets say Someone puts a satilite into orbit. It is also moving at several thousand miles an hour, but it's on a reciprocal orbit of the golf ball. Now lets add the vectors. Several thousand MPH plus several thousand MPH makes a velocity that is REALLY big. Now, would you like to guess at the energy transfer of a collision at those speeds?

    3. Re:gah... by 'nother+poster · · Score: 1

      And the joy of an almost reciprochal orbit would be spectacular. I wonder how many pounds/tons of TNT would be equivilent to a golf ball at 46,000 MPH. Been way too long since high school physics class to do that one without some Google time.

    4. Re:gah... by squiggleslash · · Score: 1
      Q: Why did the astronaut bring a spare spacesuit when he went golfing?

      A: In case he got a hole in one! Arf arf!

      --
      You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
    5. Re:gah... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Um... because so many people lauch East-to-West...

    6. Re:gah... by everphilski · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Boy, you have no idea how orbits work do you?

      Yes, actually, I do. I'm an aerospace engineer.

      Now Y is moving several thousand miles an hour else it would simply fall to the earth.

      Try several tens of thousands, 17,500 mi/h for LEO.

      It is also moving at several thousand miles an hour, but it's on a reciprocal orbit of the golf ball.

      You didn't read (4). No one uses reciprocal orbits in LEO. Hardly anyone uses reciprocal orbits... ever. The velocity the earth gives you by rotation is significant; working against it is stupid and is used very rarely, and generally only in GEO when you are trying to maintain a constellation of satellites (GPS).

      Now, would you like to guess at the energy transfer of a collision at those speeds?

      Kinetic energy = 1/2 * m * V * V; transfer depends on the elasticity of the collision.

      I'm not stuipd, I just know the assumptions better than you do.

    7. Re:gah... by Phisbut · · Score: 1
      Try several tens of thousands, 17,500 mi/h for LEO.

      17,500 mi/h is not even two thens of thousands... dunno about you, but my definition of "several" starts at more than 2 or 3... ;-)

      --
      After 3 days without programming, life becomes meaningless
      - The Tao of Programming
    8. Re:gah... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      comic Genius

    9. Re:gah... by Hoi+Polloi · · Score: 1

      It will very unlikely stay well within the ISS's orbit. It will likely drift due to the initial trajectory. Sure the odds of a hit are low and it has a transmitter that might still be working but why should a satellite or manned object have to change orbit just to avoid some promotional stunt?

      By the way, not all satellites orbit in the same direction, many are in "polar" orbits, i.e. surveillance sats, Iridium sats, etc. A collision would not be low speed in these cases.

      --
      It is by the juice of the coffee bean that thoughts acquire speed, the teeth acquire stains. The stains become a warning
    10. Re:gah... by 'nother+poster · · Score: 1

      Well, the odds of it hitting anything are astronomically small, but if it did, the odds are just as high for it to be some piece of military hardware that is not in a standard orbit as it is for anything else. Once again, a polar orbit wouldn't be reciprocal, but the collision would be significantly larger than your OP suggested. The military does put things in odd orbits. So do scientists occasionally. Oh, and why, if almost no one uses these odd orbits do they have to replace windows and tiles on the orbiter occasionally because paint chips moving at 30-40k MPH make divots in the quartz?

    11. Re:gah... by everphilski · · Score: 1

      several starts at 2, or that is what I was taught.... 17.5 is nearly 2... you get where I am going. Much closer to 20,000 than a few thousand (2,000).

    12. Re:gah... by ajpr · · Score: 1

      Surely the golf ball will hit the station (or anything else in a stable orbit) at whatever speed it is launched at. It's basic Newton's Laws isn't it?

      So the ball will hit at a fairly low speed.

      And yeah retrograde orbits are really a waste of energy in LEO.

    13. Re:gah... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "several starts at 2, or that is what I was taught"

      No way. There's "one", then "a couple", then "a few". After that we have "several", then "a bunch", a "lot", then a "zillion". Clearly "several" has got to be four or more. :-)

    14. Re:gah... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      I'm not stuipd

      Oh the irony.

    15. Re:gah... by InsideTheAsylum · · Score: 1

      Cosmic genius

    16. Re:gah... by zardo · · Score: 1
      One, couple, few, several, some, bunch, lot, ton, shitload, zillion

      "some" is floatable, I think, could be less than several or few but definately not more than a bunch.

      I think the appropriate thing here would have been to say a shitload of miles per hour. Yes.

    17. Re:gah... by rvw14 · · Score: 1

      It would take quite the golfer to hit the ball hard enough to put it in a reciprocal orbit. Even If you could hit the ball that hard, the ball would end up in little tiny pieces.

    18. Re:gah... by samkass · · Score: 1

      I think they should try to swing it such that the empty space suit catches the golf ball. Or maybe they have planned it that way... this is the low-budget "repair mission" to fix the transmitter in the space suit?

      --
      E pluribus unum
    19. Re:gah... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      sure, sure
      go get yourself hit by a golf ball, then come back and tell us how slow it was

    20. Re:gah... by Muad'Dave · · Score: 1

      commie genius

      --
      Tiller's Rule: Never use a word in written form that you've only heard and never read. You will end up looking foolish.
    21. Re:gah... by whmac33 · · Score: 1

      This and the siblings posting made me ruin my keyboard.

      But it does bring up a point that drives my crazy... ppl that use "couple" to refer to 3 or more, and ppl that use "few" to refer to 2 objects.

    22. Re:gah... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I find it quite hilarious what stupid things two very smart people will argue about....

    23. Re:gah... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Wow - how the hell did this guy get modded +5 insightful???



      You didn't read (4). No one uses reciprocal orbits in LEO. Hardly anyone uses reciprocal orbits... ever. The velocity the earth gives you by rotation is significant; working against it is stupid and is used very rarely, and generally only in GEO when you are trying to maintain a constellation of satellites (GPS).

      First, are you implying that the GPS constellation is geosyncronous?!?!?? The GPS orbit is at about 20,000 KM altitude - a 12 hour orbit. Geo is about 36,000 Km altitude, and obviously a 24 hour orbit.

      Next, what the hell is a "reciprocal orbit"? I've never heard of it, and I've worked in astrodynamics, including orbit & constellation design for over a decade.

      I'm guessing from the content of the post that you replied to that you mean a retrograde orbit. And yes, they are somewhat rarely used. But when they are, it is exclusively in LEO.

      There are only no satellites in the entire catalog that have an inclination > 100 degrees and an apogee > 15,000 Km. Which is a bit higher then what is typically considered LEO - but the point is that they aren't anywhere close to GPS or GEO altitudes.

      In fact there is a whole class of important LEO retrograde orbits - they are known as sun syncronous orbits.

      I have no idea what you are talking about using "reciprocal"/retrograde orbits in GEO or to maintain constellations such as GPS.

      There is absolutely no point to using a retrograde orbit in geo - the whole point of GEO is to move in the same direction as the earth's rotation, at the same rate.

      And in any constellation such as GPS all of the satellites fly with the same inclination, altitude and eccentricity. Otherwise perturbations - primarily J2 (equatorial bulge) - would quickly destroy the relative phasing between satellites in the constellation.

    24. Re:gah... by geekoid · · Score: 1

      Assuming the object it hits is giong the same velocity as the station.

      Of course, what happens if it hits a paint chip? Won't it's orbit change?

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    25. Re:gah... by geekoid · · Score: 1

      At least it ain't rocket science... oh wait.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    26. Re:gah... by NetRAVEN5000 · · Score: 1

      The ball will hit other space objects at a fairly low speed, but (if/when) it falls back to Earth it will fall back down to Earth at terminal velocity. And I would assume that it eventually will - I doubt the astronaut is THAT good of a golfer.

      Of course, the golf ball will probably burn up in Earth's atmosphere.

    27. Re:gah... by Static11 · · Score: 1

      Yes, actually, I do. I'm an aerospace engineer.

      Now Y is moving several thousand miles an hour else it would simply fall to the earth.

      Try several tens of thousands, 17,500 mi/h for LEO.


      An aerospace engineer who works in imperial measurements? Suuuure you are.

    28. Re:gah... by Tmack · · Score: 1
      One, couple, few, several, some, bunch, lot, ton, shitload, zillion

      Forgot Shitton (crapton in metric), and fuckload....

      tm

      --
      Support TBI Research: http://www.raisinhope.org
    29. Re:gah... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Boy, you have no idea how English works, do you?

      It's spelled "satellite".

      Dorking up the obvious adds little to your credibility as a commentator.

    30. Re:gah... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But people put satellites into reciprocal orbits with some frequency...

    31. Re:gah... by 6th+time+lucky · · Score: 1

      hmmm we have f=1/2mv^2 or 1/2 45.9g * 46000mph^2= 9.7 MJ
      or (at 4.16MJ/KG of TNT) 5 pounds of TNT

      Seems small...

    32. Re:gah... by ajpr · · Score: 1

      If it hits anything it will slow down and go into a lower orbit.

  22. RTFA much? by JeanBaptiste · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Not only does it contain a transmitter, but the article says it will burn up on re-entry in 3 to 4 years.

    The odds of this being a problem for 'space entrepreneurs' is probably comparable to me winning powerball within the same timeframe. Space is big. Really big.

    1. Re:RTFA much? by idontgno · · Score: 1
      Not only does it contain a transmitter, but the article says it will burn up on re-entry in 3 to 4 years.

      I don't personally feel comfortable making forecasts of orbital mechanics based on the acceleration vector of a human golf swing. It's not a particularly predictable energy input, and one good slice might put the golf ball into an slightly eccentric permanent orbit.

      Or not. I don't have an intuitive feel of the scale of the energies involved, but if the golf ball's projected orbit will last for years, I would expect there would be a set of hooks or slices which make the golf ball orbit for longer than planned.

      IANARS*, of course.

      *IANA Rocket Scientist

      --
      Welcome to the Panopticon. Used to be a prison, now it's your home.
    2. Re:RTFA much? by Phisbut · · Score: 1
      I don't personally feel comfortable making forecasts of orbital mechanics based on the acceleration vector of a human golf swing. It's not a particularly predictable energy input, and one good slice might put the golf ball into an slightly eccentric permanent orbit.

      I doubt a golf ball can slice in a vacuum. Slicing is all about aerodynamics, and without air, there ain't much slice. And when the ball gets low enough that there is a little air to let it slice, it will just slow it down even more and make it fall faster, not get into permanent orbit.

      --
      After 3 days without programming, life becomes meaningless
      - The Tao of Programming
    3. Re:RTFA much? by jaaronc · · Score: 1
      I'm guessing that the amount of time it will take for this golf ball to re-enter has more to do with the fact that there is a minimal amount of atmosphere at that altitude. Remember that the forces at work in an orbit are:

      1. A centripital force, based upon the velocity of the object, pulling the object away from the earth, and

      2. Gravity, pulling the object back toward earth.

      The velocity of the golf ball will determine the altitude at which it orbits. No matter what direction the ball is hit in, all that really matters is it's velocity parallel to the earth, which will slowly diminish due to resistance from what atmosphere there is at that altitude. There certainly is some variability as to the amount of resistance it will encounter based on the exact forces of the golf club swing (hence the 3-4 year window for it's re-entry), but not enough to possibly put the ball into permanent orbit.
    4. Re:RTFA much? by Rei · · Score: 1

      and without air

      That's just the problem: it's not without air. It's very sparse, but you still get a steady, light hypersonic drag. The ball will be trailing weak shocks around it as it moves.

      Of course, you don't get too much easier to model, in terms of laminar and turbulent flow, than a golf ball. Perhaps if it was closer to a perfect sphere it might be a bit easier yet, but this should be a fairly predictable flight once they get the initial tracking data.

      --
      I was watching this thing on TV about some guy named Hitler. Someone should stop him!
    5. Re:RTFA much? by B3ryllium · · Score: 1

      You obviously haven't seen MY swing.

    6. Re:RTFA much? by bobcat7677 · · Score: 1

      The odds of this being a problem for 'space entrepreneurs' is probably comparable to me winning powerball within the same timeframe. Space is big. Really big.

      Really? Hmmm, I like those odds. I think I should like to watch this on TV and win the lottery.

      ***Me scurries out to buy powerball tickets and a bigger TV***

    7. Re:RTFA much? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Space is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind- bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the drug store, but that's just peanuts to space.

      --The Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy

    8. Re:RTFA much? by drew · · Score: 1

      I don't personally feel comfortable making forecasts of orbital mechanics based on the acceleration vector of a human golf swing.

      According to a previous post, the ISS orbits the earth at a relative velocity of about 17k miles per hour. I don't know the speed that a golf ball typically travels at, but for the sake of argument, let's be generous and say it's something ridiculously high like 250 miles per hour. Even if the cosmonaut in question purposefully hit the golf ball as hard as he could perpendicular to the ISS direction of travel, the orbit of the golfball would be less than a degree off of the orbit of the ISS. (about 0.8 degree by my math) A minor hook/slice would probably take years to even be able to measure.

      This golf ball will be in virtually the same orbit as the ISS for as long as it's up there.

      --
      If I don't put anything here, will anyone recognize me anymore?
    9. Re:RTFA much? by 2short · · Score: 1

      "I don't have an intuitive feel of the scale of the energies involved"

      I do. Next to the velocity of the station, the additional velocity imparted to the ball by the golf club is not worth mentioning. The orbit degrading, and the ball burning up on reentry in 3-4 years is exactly the same projection as for the ISS itself in the absence of regular orbit-maintaining boosts.

    10. Re:RTFA much? by 6th+time+lucky · · Score: 1

      OK this is beyond me, but suppose that the cosmonaut is a *really* good shot and shoots it in *exactly* the same orbit as the ISS. At 250 MPH how long does it take before he hits a back window on the ISS with a 250 MPH golf ball???

  23. They're the same fucking games. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How about Racquetball?

    Good point, I think that squash would be another good example.

  24. Can I be the first to say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Who cares?

  25. It's all fun and games... by ScentCone · · Score: 1

    ...until someone's solar array is clobbered by one more little piece of pointless space junk.

    Still, just about anything that might get, say, your average golfer to remember (even for a moment, once a day) that we have stuff, that we put there orbiting around the planet... that's worth it. I wonder sometimes if the occasional golfer who found his way to the new course using the GPS-enabled nav system on his new Lexus is even aware that a bunch of orbiting hardware and thousands of people working on the ground are required to make his car "know" which exit to take a half a mile from now. Of course, people don't know how potable water is made either - or what the internet actually is, what makes sunblock work, why termites want to eat their floor joists, why antibiotics won't cure their common cold, or that their beer is yeast pee, either. So, I say: more orbital golf shots, why the hell not.

    --
    Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
  26. What if he chips it? by RingDev · · Score: 1

    I can't imagine swinging a driver in a full blown space suit is going to be easy. I would be afraid that the ball is get launched at an unexpected angle which one would think could put it into an orbit that may conflict with something else that is already out there.

    -Rick

    --
    "Most people in the U.S. wouldn't know they live in a tyrannical state if it walked up and grabbed their junk." - MyFirs
    1. Re:What if he chips it? by VolciMaster · · Score: 1

      who says he's gonig to hit it correctly, anyways? If he hits it more or less 'down' towards the earth, it won't make the orbit as long. Also, he's not going to be imparting that much more velocity to the ball beyond the momentum already present by being with the space station.

  27. In space....... by Roskolnikov · · Score: 1

    no one can hear you scream, four......

    --
    Unix, an obscure operating system developed by bored researchers in an attempt to get a better game playing experience.
    1. Re:In space....... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That would be "fore"

    2. Re:In space....... by Roskolnikov · · Score: 1

      or Phor!

      --
      Unix, an obscure operating system developed by bored researchers in an attempt to get a better game playing experience.
  28. In russia... by idiotdevel · · Score: 0

    In Soviet Russia, we don't actually play golf in Russia

  29. Do you get a drop? by courtarro · · Score: 1

    Does "burning up in the atmosphere" count as a hazard?

  30. CaddyShack by PhatboySlim · · Score: 1

    Would be great if just before making his shot he could repeat this quote:

    "So I jump ship in Hong Kong and make my way over to Tibet, and I get on as a looper at a course over in the Himalayas. A looper, you know, a caddy, a looper, a jock. So, I tell them I'm a pro jock, and who do you think they give me? The Dalai Lama, himself. Twelfth son of the Lama. The flowing robes, the grace, bald... striking. So, I'm on the first tee with him. I give him the driver. He hauls off and whacks one - big hitter, the Lama - long, into a ten-thousand foot crevasse, right at the base of this glacier. Do you know what the Lama says? Gunga galunga... gunga, gunga-galunga. So we finish the eighteenth and he's gonna stiff me. And I say, "Hey, Lama, hey, how about a little something, you know, for the effort, you know." And he says, "Oh, uh, there won't be any money, but when you die, on your deathbed, you will receive total consciousness." So I got that goin' for me, which is nice."

    --
    Be sure to remember the Programmers Prayer
    1. Re:CaddyShack by onemorechip · · Score: 1
      Even better:

      What an incredible Cinderella story, this unknown comes outta no where to lead the pack, at Augusta. He's on his final hole, he's about 455 yards away -- he's gonna hit about a 2-iron, I think. Oh he got all of that one! ... This crowd has gone deathly silent, the Cinderella story, outta nowhere, a former greenskeeper now -- about to become The Masters champion. It looks like a mirac -- It's in the hole!

      --
      But, I wanted socialized health insurance!
  31. Watch out for those deserts... by dr_dank · · Score: 1

    If it lands in the Sahara, that'll cost him a one stroke penalty.

    --
    Where does the school board find them and why do they keep sending them to ME?
  32. Out-of-this-World Record by FuturePastNow · · Score: 1

    Maybe he'll break Alan Shepard's record for the longest drive ever.

    --
    Give a man fire, and you warm him for the night. Set a man on fire, and you warm him for the rest of his life.
  33. Alan Shepard won the first hole by iBod · · Score: 1
    1. Re:Alan Shepard won the first hole by Erbo · · Score: 1

      Ah, I dunno...that first shot of Al's looked like a slice.

      --
      Be who you are...and be it in style!
  34. It's called a joke by stupidfoo · · Score: 1

    See subject

  35. CaddyShack #2 by PhatboySlim · · Score: 1

    Another great pre-space-shot quote: "What an incredible Cinderella story, this unknown comes outta no where to lead the pack, at Augusta. He's on his final hole, he's about 455 yards away - he's gonna hit about a two-iron I think. Oh he got all of that one! The crowd is standing on its feet here, the normally reserved Augusta crowd - going wild - for this young Cinderella, he's come outta no where, he's got about 350 yards left, he's gonna hit about a five-iron, don't you think? He's got a beautiful backswing - that's - Oh he got all of that one! He's gotta be pleased with that, the crowd is just on its feet here, uh - He's the Cinderella boy, uh - tears in his eyes I guess as he lines up this last shot, he's got about 195 yards left, he's got about a - its looks like he's got about an eight-iron. This crowd has gone deathly silent, the Cinderella story, outta no where, a former greenskeeper now - about to become the Masters champion. It looks like a mirac - It's in the Hole!"

    --
    Be sure to remember the Programmers Prayer
  36. A Drunk John Daly could have done that by leftie · · Score: 1

    I could see a drunken John Daly matching that. A billion mile long drive... ...200 miles out of bounds, landing in a huge water hazard.

  37. And make sure it burns up on re-entry too! by Anonymous+Meoward · · Score: 1

    Are we the only 2 people who don't get golf?

    I don't get it at all. You pay a buttload of cash for the equipment, for bad clothing, and for the privilege to play on a manicured field. And you keep paying the latter, over and over again, to avoid sucking that badly.

    All this for "a good walk spoiled".

    Sorry, I have an MBA, and I still don't understand the fascination. I can increase positive cash flow by opening my front door and have an unspoiled good walk for free. And that reminds me..

    <RANT>

    And what's with calling golf a sport anyway? In the past two weeks, I watched the Super Bowl, some of the Winter Olympics, college B-ball, and pro hockey -- and you know what? Those people were involved with sports. I also went to my gym, and saw plenty of weight-trainers, bodybuilders, and Tae Kwon Do students. These people participated in sports too.

    Do you want to know how I know this? Not one participant was wearing slacks.

    Let's get serious. Golf is not a "sport", it is a "skill". It is a highly lucrative skill for those with considerable talent, but it is a "skill" nonetheless. If you're wearing Dockers (or driving a cart, or hiring a lackey to ruck for you), it's just.. not.. a sport.

    Billiards is more aerobic by comparison.

    </RANT>
    --
    --- The American Way of Life is not a birthright. Hell, it's not even sustainable.
    1. Re:And make sure it burns up on re-entry too! by chrismcdirty · · Score: 1

      I enjoy golf by buying clubs at Goodwill and other second-hand stores. I've probably spent maybe $50 on supplies in the 4+ years I've been playing. Add to that the $10 fee I pay whenever I feel like playing. It ends up being cheaper than some other hobbies I have. Yeah, I suck... badly. But its still fun.

      --
      It's like sex, except I'm having it!
    2. Re:And make sure it burns up on re-entry too! by cptgrudge · · Score: 1
      I don't get it at all. You pay a buttload of cash for the equipment, for bad clothing, and for the privilege to play on a manicured field. And you keep paying the latter, over and over again, to avoid sucking that badly.

      All this for "a good walk spoiled".

      This is the reason why. It's the money.

      --
      Qualitas edurus commercium, nullus penitus net rimor, nullus deus beneficium
    3. Re:And make sure it burns up on re-entry too! by Phanatic1a · · Score: 1

      A-fucking-men. The notion that any competetive activity is a "sport" is a nonsense that ends with things like chess and curling being considered sports.

      I'm with Carlin on this one, there are only three sports. Football; baseball; and basketball. Everything else is either a game or an activity. Golf is definitely not a goddamned sport.

      Carlin's characterization of golf is also dead on: "It's like watching flies fuck."

    4. Re:And make sure it burns up on re-entry too! by spxero · · Score: 1

      And what's with calling golf a sport anyway? In the past two weeks, I watched the Super Bowl, some of the Winter Olympics, college B-ball, and pro hockey -- and you know what? Those people were involved with sports. I also went to my gym, and saw plenty of weight-trainers, bodybuilders, and Tae Kwon Do students. These people participated in sports too.

      One could argue that the emphasized choices in your list aren't sports as well (with the exception of a few events in the olympics).

      Sport
      n.
      1. a. Physical activity that is governed by a set of rules or customs and often engaged in competitively.
      b. A particular form of this activity.

      With this being a definition of sport, golf would easily fall into the category. One could argue that bodybuilding, running/track, skating, swimming, etc. would fall closer into the category of competition. Interestingly, eating competitions could be considered sports given this definition. Eating heavily is not only physically taxing, but is also governed by rules of time and courtesy (knocking your rival's plate on the ground would surely disqualify you).

      On a personal note, I have a friend that holds the definition of sport the same as above, but with the addition of the ability to play defense. Without the ability to play defense, there is no offense. And with no offense, he argues, there is no sport. To him, offense is not besting your opponent by .004 seconds. My fiance argues against this (she ran track in HS). To her, something as physically taxing as sprinting/running is considered a sport. I disagree (with both my fiance and friend). To me, a sport has a ball in addition to the guidelines and rules. That is why I think that golf is a sport, but swimming is not.

    5. Re:And make sure it burns up on re-entry too! by clintp · · Score: 1

      Gotta disagree with baseball. Any sport you can play while actively drinking a beer is not a sport. Baseball, shuffleboard, golf, bowling, curling, and darts for example are not "sports".

      Replace baseball with ice hockey on Carlin's list and you've sold me.

      --
      Get off my lawn.
    6. Re:And make sure it burns up on re-entry too! by rufty_tufty · · Score: 1

      Rugby? Cricket? Any form of running? Sking? Tennis? Hockey? Boxing? These aren't sports why?

      What about Motor Sport? Is Michael Schumacher a sportsman?

      --
      "The weirdest thing about a mind, is that every answer that you find, is the basis of a brand new cliche" -
    7. Re:And make sure it burns up on re-entry too! by Jainith · · Score: 1

      What would you consider rugby?

      Drinking copius amounts of beer seems to be more or less a required part of the games around here anyway.

  38. Cosmonaught to Play With Ball in Orbit for 4 Years by neo · · Score: 1

    Seriously, if you're going to post this stuff at least get your titles to look like the Weekly World News.

  39. Not very responsible by nurb432 · · Score: 1

    Yet another piece of killer space junk to track.

    Bet he would feel bad if it came back around and smacked the ISS, or a billion dollar sat..

    --
    ---- Booth was a patriot ----
  40. Not to be pedantic but, by troll+-1 · · Score: 1

    a Russian cosmonaut will take his trusty six iron and a special weightless-friendly.

    My 12-year old just read this and asked me what weightless means. It's some bad physics.

    1. Re:Not to be pedantic but, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Weightless is what you are when in a free-falling environment. Weight is the force a mass exerts on a surface due to the action of a gravitation field; in free-fall this is zero. If you glue a set of bathroom scales to your feet and jump off the top of a tall building you will find your weight decreases. If you wait long enough you will find your height decreases too.

      The real bad physics is referring to this as zero-g, as the actual gravitational force in orbit is only 2-3% less than on the surface. But of course what is meant is the aeronautical shorthand for how many times your apparent weight has increased due to local acceleration (with zero-g meaning you are weightless).

    2. Re:Not to be pedantic but, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Weightless means mass without gravity applied. It's not bad physics, just you that's bad at physics.

    3. Re:Not to be pedantic but, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Without gravity applied?

      And where might you possibly be in the universe where there is no gravity?

    4. Re:Not to be pedantic but, by troll+-1 · · Score: 1

      The cosmonauts are not weightless there are still forces acting on them. It's an old physics 101 trick question.

    5. Re:Not to be pedantic but, by nutshell42 · · Score: 1

      But they cancel each other out (well there's a miniscule amount of athmospheric drag and a few other even smaller forces but they're negligible unless we're talking about weeks and months)

      --
      Don't think of it as a flame---it's more like an argument that does 3d6 fire damage
    6. Re:Not to be pedantic but, by xtieburn · · Score: 1

      Why is it bad physics to say weightless?

      Very first defintion of weightless in the dictionary.

      'Having little or no weight.'

      The tee is designed to cope with something that has little or no weight. It is by definition weightless-friendly.

      Maybe im missing something but I dont see what the problem is here.

    7. Re:Not to be pedantic but, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But the tee does have weight (in its simplest form F=m1*m2/r^2 between any two objects with mass). The force of gravity acts on a mass anywhere in the universe and is the total sum of the effects of all the mass in the universe. The sum of the forces may be zero relative to some coordinate system but the forces are not absent and the term weightless is somewhat misleading.

  41. What happens if he shanks it? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Could he take out a satalite? Or worse yet one of the Windows of the space station?

  42. Gotta love capitalism! by N3WBI3 · · Score: 1

    Not as impressive as spaceship one but its nice to see private industry doing some funding..

    --
  43. 6 Iron and loft by Bucc5062 · · Score: 1

    Someone already got my Mulligan joke idea so I'll move onto my other thought. Just yesterday I researched and wrote a small program to show the projectile trajectory of an object. IANAG but I understand that golf club faces have different face angles to change the loft of the ball. Drivers have low face angles, 9 irons high.

    So what intrigues me (other then why the guy needs a tee in space) is when he hits the ball, how will the face angle change or set the trajectory (orbit?). Granted, this is a shameless commercial plug for a golf company, but it can provide a good lab for young physics minds to try and calculate the orbit. I read some posts that talked about the golf ball traveling 23 or 27 thousand mph. That must be one hell of a swing. I would think the relative velocity of the ball would be similar to that on earth. If he hits it in retrograde orbit I would be more worried about the thing slamming into a working satellite.

    Since they are going to have a transmitter in the ball (rendering it illegal to use in PGA tours, but making it easier to find in the rough) it will be interesting to track. The next commercial idea in space I'd like to see...solar sails. North Sails, coupled with NASA sponsor a sail ship race from Earth to the Moon. Don't give a damn if they splash Coca Cola signs all over the place if it means something other then reseach is done in space.

    --
    Life is a great ride, the vehicle doesn't matter
    1. Re:6 Iron and loft by miller701 · · Score: 1
      As I remember it, the ball would settle into an orbit corresponding to velocity(SS) + velocity(golfball) (but only the vector component of the speed in the direction of the orbit) if it's shot the same direction the SS is moving and Vss - Vgb if hit off the "back" of the space station.

      Let's assume the elasticity of the club face is the same for a driver and a 9-iron and the club head momentum are equal (he'd have to swing a lot faster with the 9-iron because it's quite a bit shorter), and they're hit in the same direction the space station is moving. A driver with only a few degrees of loft would of course hit a very flat trajectory and would contribute most of the energy into forward motion, and the ball would disappear ahead of the SS and eventually pass the SS in a higher orbit. The 9-iron would impart much more of the momentum "up" but it would settle down in an orbit higher than the SS, but not nearly as much as the driver shot would (due to less velocity in the direction of the orbit).

      Any rocket scientists want to "chip" in?

  44. Most expensive by Jozer99 · · Score: 1

    This might well be the most expensive slice in golf history.

  45. In space nobody can here you play golf! by HaydnH · · Score: 2, Informative

    ok, from TFA:

    "The ball is expected to remain in orbit for three to four years."

    "The ball is expected to travel up to 2.1 billion miles before it drops back into the atmosphere and burns up."

    TFA doesn't say if that distance is based on 3 or 4 years, so I'll work out both and give a max & min average velocity:

    Min time in space = 3 years = 1,096 days (2*365 + 1*366: leap year in 2008) = 26,304 hours
    Max time in space = 4 years = 1,461 days (3*365 + 1*366: leap year in 2008) = 35,064 hours

    2.1 billion miles / 26,304 hours = 79,835.77 mph
    2.1 billion miles / 35,064 hours = 59,890.49 mph

    So the average speed will be between 59,890.49 mph & 79,835.77 mph!! (or 96,384.16 kph & 128,482.90 kph)

    Considering the speed of sound (at sea level) is 761mph it's just as well in space nobody can here you play golf!

    Haydn.

    --
    Time is an illusion. Lunchtime doubly so. - Douglas Adams
    1. Re:In space nobody can here you play golf! by Jubedgy · · Score: 1

      Considering the ball will be in a roughly circular orbit at LEO, the average speed will be a little less than 8 km/sec or 28,800 km/h. Your estimate of roughly 27 km/sec - 36 km/sec seems much too high to come from the relatively low delta-v of someone hitting a golf ball from the space station. The orbit would end up being highly elliptical...how much energy will it take to cause a delta-v of 19-28 km/sec to a golf ball? I don't have my reference materials handy, but I'd guesstimate it's quite a bit more than a human can provide.

      --
      Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis hebes
    2. Re:In space nobody can here you play golf! by HaydnH · · Score: 1

      Don't blame me - my calculation was just using the distance and time provided by the article!

      --
      Time is an illusion. Lunchtime doubly so. - Douglas Adams
    3. Re:In space nobody can here you play golf! by acaspis · · Score: 1
      "The ball is expected to travel up to 2.1 billion miles before it drops back into the atmosphere and burns up."

      So the average speed will be between 59,890.49 mph & 79,835.77 mph!! (or 96,384.16 kph & 128,482.90 kph)

      3.5 years in a circular orbit around the sun = 2.1 billion miles (in a sun-centered frame of coordinates) - just like any other golf ball.

      As others have pointed out, the motion of the ball around the earth can't account for 2.1 billion miles, unless the orbit is highly elliptic.

      And I'd love to see the specs of that transmitter. Otherwise I'll assume they'll shoot the ball into the atmosphere and make up a nice story.

      AC

    4. Re:In space nobody can here you play golf! by geekoid · · Score: 1

      the speed would be the hit of the golf ball plus the speed of the station. or minus if he hit it the other way.

      relitive to a ground point, the space station is traveling at 28,880 KPH.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    5. Re:In space nobody can here you play golf! by omega_cubed · · Score: 1
      That doesn't make too much sense. The ISS averages about 7.7km/s or 27.5 megameters per hour. which works out to 17000 mph roughly. A speed of 60,000 mph is about 27km/s. That means that our astronaut friend will need to impart
      0.5 * m * (vf^2 -vi^2) = 0.5 * (0.046kg [for golf balls]) * (27000^2 - 8000^2)m^2/s^2 = 15MJ
      onto the ball in a impact time that is most definitely less than a second.

      Even if he is Russian, I can't believe that he has higher power output than a nuclear powerplant.

      In reality, I don't think that ball would go much faster than the ISS itself.
      --
      Engineers also speak PDE, only in a different dialect.
  46. Carnival side show by amightywind · · Score: 1

    Tentatively scheduled for a spacewalk this summer, a Russian cosmonaut will take his trusty six iron and a special weightless-friendly tee and put a golf ball into orbit from outside the International Space Station.

    Is there any better example of the pettiness and utter pointlessness of the ISS? The program has been reduced to a carnival side show of paid stunts and celebrity guests. It won't be long until its hull is rented for advertising. I can imagine it eventually looking like a NASCAR racer. The political goal of moderation of Russia, set by Clinton, has failed. The program cost and responsibility for launching and assembly is disproportately born by the US. In the US we have wasted 30 years of the future on this. Support project Constellation.

    --
    an ill wind that blows no good
    1. Re:Carnival side show by east+coast · · Score: 1

      Is there any better example of the pettiness and utter pointlessness of the ISS? The program has been reduced to a carnival side show of paid stunts and celebrity guests.

      To be honest I think this is exactly what it's going to take to see real human exploration of space. It's easy to see that they countries with the resources are willing to do little to make a real space program, we need commercial dollars invested and if this little stunt is going to show a profit and help the ISS along I'm all for it.

      --
      Dedicated Cthulhu Cultist since 4523 BC.
    2. Re:Carnival side show by apsmith · · Score: 1

      Uh, somebody's paying money to do something in space. Sounds good to me, the more the better. What would be wrong with advertising on the side of ISS? The Russians have raised money for their space program by advertisements on the side of rockets for years. Money for space has to come from somewhere - why not from private interests willing to throw it away on stuff like this, rather than out of your and my tax dollar?

      Yeah, let's do the science stuff too, sure, if there's really an interest. But have you ever noticed that NASA's budget is about 3 times that of the National Science Foundation (though that's scheduled to double over the next few years) - space gets money for much more than science; why not stuff like this that the average person can enjoy?

      --

      Energy: time to change the picture.

  47. More junk in orbit by macdo · · Score: 1

    Nice stunt, but why? There are thousands of useless objects orbiting our world, each a danger for anything sharing their orbits... Why add another....

  48. Golf in space by darknite1979 · · Score: 1

    In space no-one can hear you yell FOOOOOOOOOOUR!

    1. Re:Golf in space by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wow. The same joke posted three times, and all of them get it wrong!

  49. Was it a Green Golf Ball? nt by objekt · · Score: 1

    nt means no text

    --
    -- Boycott Shell
  50. Good to see! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Well I am sure glad we got all that world hunger and the hole in the ozone layer fixed... otherwise this might seem like a waste of time.

  51. The trouble with those Russians... by fantomas · · Score: 1

    ...they really take this "free market" philosophy way too seriously ;-) hehehe it's all kind of ironic that the Russians are the guys who are funding their space program through space tourism, commercial tie-ups, etc, and the Americans are the ones who don't like the idea of private money in space? Who'd have thought it 20 years ago?

  52. ObChristmasStory. by sconeu · · Score: 1

    You'll put your eye out with that golf ball!

    --
    General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
  53. 6 iron? by JustNiz · · Score: 1

    Why doesn't he use a driver?

    1. Re:6 iron? by miller701 · · Score: 1
      Alan B Shepard used a 6 iron on the moon on the Apollo 16 mission. That probably has something to do with it.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_14

  54. space trash by anonieuweling · · Score: 1

    Even more space trash. Just what we need. A nice golf ball at whatever nice speed can come in pretty hard...

  55. Good Lord! by east+coast · · Score: 1

    It is expected to orbit for 3 to 4 years before burning up on re-entry.

    I can't hit a golf ball 30 feet. This is impressive. I would like to think that it would either burn up or move from the planet faster. I always felt that keeping something in orbit was a bit harder than basically hitting it with a stick.

    --
    Dedicated Cthulhu Cultist since 4523 BC.
  56. Odds of an impact are better than you think by Digital_Quartz · · Score: 1

    LDEF taught us a lot about impact damage from space junk, since it was up there for a long time, and was retrieved.

    "With a relative impact velocity of 10 km/s, a piece of aluminum debris which is ~0.7 mm in diameter can penetrate through a typical 2.5 mm thick aluminum satellite wall. During its 5.75 year exposure, LDEF saw one (1) impact of this size per 7 [square meters] of exposed surface area in the RAM direction. In addition to this, LDEF experienced ~1 impact [per square meter], on ram-exposed surfaces, which could have penetrated a typical 1.5 mm thick aluminum electronics box."
    -http://setas-www.larc.nasa.gov/LDEF/MET_DEB/md_im pact.html

    1 impact per square meter over 6 years in orbit. So, you need to make your spacecraft really small, or really thick, or you need to go up for very short periods of time and cross your fingers. And that's without golf balls whizzing past.

    Also; if you and the golf-ball are in very similar orbits, this means the golf ball will have a speed very close to yours, relatively speaking. ISS is in a very low orbit, going around 7700 m/s. If you and the ball are both travelling 7700 m/s though, having your orbit be off by only 1 degree relative to each other means a 134 m/s impact, or 482 km/h, which is still going to leave a nasty bruise.

    1. Re:Odds of an impact are better than you think by Tango42 · · Score: 1

      Those numbers are for any piece of junk hitting, I was talking about a particular golf ball. Obviously if you have hundreds/thousands of bits of junk the chances are increased over just a single bit.

  57. Let's just hope he doesn't make a divot by s_p_oneil · · Score: 1

    If he does, he'll have to stamp it back down with his foot really hard. ;-)

  58. Can't Wait To See His Follow-through by aquatone282 · · Score: 1

    Teach him to ignore Sir Issac.

    --
    What?
  59. Three to four years? by dougmc · · Score: 1
    The ball is expected to remain in orbit for three to four years.
    Um, this doesn't sound right at all. It will be lauched from the ISS, with a speed almost identical to that of the ISS, so it'll basically be in the ISS's orbit (at least at first), just like Suitsat. But Suitsat is expected to burn up in less than six weeks -- and the golf ball is expected to last thirty times as long?

    ISS loses about 2 KM of altitude per month if it doesn't use it's engines to gain some altitude (it's in a rather low orbit, so it does go through a tiny bit of our atmosphere, and this does slow it down) and if they ever did fail to gain altitude every few months, this drop would accelerate greatly as it got down more into our atmosphere. As a consequence of the square-cube law, smaller objects will generally drop even faster (because the ratio of surface area/mass increases as you get smaller, and so your deacceleration due to drag increases similarly.) Suitsat is probably a good deal less dense than a golf ball, and irregularly shaped, so it will certainly be much more draggy, and even though it's more massive I'd expect it to stay up for a shorter period of time, but even so ... a factor of 30 difference in how long they stay up seems awfully high.

    Three to four years sounds like about how long the ISS would stay up without any thrust, but maybe it's longer than that. And a golf ball is pretty good at slipping through the air (that's what the dimples are all about) so maybe it's will stay up so long just because of that.

    Or maybe Pavel Vinogradov has one hell of a swinging arm ...

    1. Re:Three to four years? by rewinn · · Score: 1

      Perhaps atmospheric drag is related to surface area.

    2. Re:Three to four years? by dougmc · · Score: 1
      Perhaps atmospheric drag is related to surface area.
      Of course atmospheric drag is related to surface area. Perhaps I just didn't go into enough detail on the square-cube law ...

      If you take an object and double it's size in each dimension, it's surface area increases by a factor of four, but it's mass increases by a factor of eight. (Assuming that density remains a constant, of course.) Since atmospheric drag is roughly related to the surface area, this means that the drag will also increase by a factor of four (this is an approximation, but it's pretty good) ... but since the mass has increased by a factor of eight, the deacceleration due to drag has slowed by 50%, and this more massive object will last roughly twice as long in orbit, all other factors being equal.

      In short, as a rule of thumb, large things in a given orbit tend to last longer than small things, and the ISS is very large, and a golf ball is very small. Of course, the ISS is irregularly shaped, with large solar panels and such, and is probably largely empty (well, filled with air) so it's overall density will be low. On the other hand, the golf ball is relatively aerodynamic and probably very dense (with the radio gear really packed in there) so I guess that makes the difference ...

  60. Hey, give them a break! by elrous0 · · Score: 1
    First of all, thanks to NASA, we've recently cut down significantly on the space junk we're putting up there. Granted, they did this by grounding their crappy overpriced shuttle fleet--but still.

    And, hey, we owe the Russians a little slack. Without them to give U.S. astronauts a ride, the ISS would have to be abandoned.

    -Eric

    --
    SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
  61. I Bet He Throws His Club Farther by aquatone282 · · Score: 1

    . . . than the estimated 2.1 billon miles he hits the ball.

    --
    What?
  62. Serious threat by amightywind · · Score: 1

    (5) therefore any collosion with the golfball at a later time will be at a velocity SLOWER than the swing, far slower than any other piece of space junk out there, and definitely not a threat. Not to mention there is a TRANSMITTER in there. They will see it coming and wave

    ISS orbits inclined at 56 deg. A satellite orbiting in polar or equatorial orbit will be hit at a relative cos(i - 56). That can be a lot, like ~8000mph. It is a pretty irresponsible act given that space debris is already a serious problem.

    --
    an ill wind that blows no good
    1. Re:Serious threat by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Gimme a break, a golf ball in low earth orbit is not a serious threat to anybody. Let's assume the golf ball's orbit is circular, and its altitude is 150 miles. Assuming we take the equitorial radius of 4000 mi, that comes to an orbiting circumference of 8300*pi miles. There are infinite orbits at 150 miles that intersect the orbit of the golf ball, so we find the spherical surface area at 150 miles to be 4*pi*4150^2 = 6.9E7 * pi square miles. Now a golf ball's radius is what? maybe 3-4 cm = 36 * pi cm^3. hitting something 100cm^3 in an area of 7E7*pi square miles seems like an awefully hard task. I'll take those odds any day.

  63. Reg golf ball could orbit at 354km at most 1 year by Robotbeat · · Score: 1

    From the highest point of the ISS orbit (354.2 km), a regulation size golf ball (at least 42.67cm diameter and at most 45.93 grams), the orbit would decay in about 177 days, according to the program in this paper (and assuming no space weather): Satellite Orbital Decay Calculations.
    The inputs to that program are:
    0.04593 kg satellite mass
    0.00143 m^2 satellite (frontal) area
    354.2 km satellite orbit
    (no space weather)

    Even if the golf ball's effective area (well, the "frontal area", which is what we're concerned with) is reduced by half, the golf ball won't be up for even a year (354 days).

    And this is assuming that the cosmonaut will be able to hit the ball in a roughly circular orbit! In other words, the ball must be higher than regulation mass (probably would have to be 200-300 grams, at least) in order to stay up that long (and probably to get the transmitter inside).

    In other words, no real records for regulation golf balls will be broken (assuming it will be up there for at least a year).

  64. Watch out for that slice!!! by ChurroCSU · · Score: 1

    I'll bet he slices it and it travels 1/18th of a revolution, the ball goes OB, and he tries to take a mulligan...

  65. Balls? Worry about divots. by nick_davison · · Score: 2, Funny

    I'd worry less about the golf ball and more about the embarrassed cosmonaut who's trying to push the divot he just made back in to the ISS with the toe of his spacesuit before anyone notices.

  66. Re:Reg golf ball could orbit at 354km at most 1 ye by Robotbeat · · Score: 1

    BTW, I meant to write 42.67mm, not 42.67cm for the regulation diameter.

  67. The Tee Shot Heard 'Round The World by davidwr · · Score: 1

    Advertising exec: "We'll call it 'The Tee Shot Hear 'Round The World."
    College Advertising Intern: "But sir, there's no sound in space."

    --
    Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
  68. How about the ball? by qray · · Score: 1

    Couldn't they find a sponsor for the ball?

    Maybe it's more than just a golf ball. Maybe it's some super secrete Russian spy satellite and not really a golf ball at all.
    --
    Q

    1. Re:How about the ball? by rvandervort · · Score: 1

      That's preposterous. We all know it's Major League Baseball who's spying on us...

      --
      New Snot Eunichs.
  69. orbital mechanics-- BONK! ?? by Ancient_Hacker · · Score: 1
    I'm a little weak on orbital mechanics, but please see though my reasoning:
    • If you just let go of a golfball in space, it's going to, in the short run, stay put.
    • If you give it a very light push, it's going to orbit around the ISS, coming back to the launching point on each revolution.
    • If you slam it with a golf club, faster than escape velocity from the ISS, it's going to take off on an orbit around the Earth, again coming back to the same launch point at each revolution? Is this right?
  70. WTF by GmAz · · Score: 1

    That is the stupidest thing I have ever read. First of all, why do the Russians think that hitting a golf ball will put it in a perfect orbit? I mean, come on.

    --
    Click Click Bloody Click PANCAKES!
  71. A bit about orbit geometry. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Well, I'm an aerospace engineer also. The difference is that I happen to know a bit about orbit geometry, space debris, and most importantly relative motion.

    This is a stupid "experiment". That transmitter will likely last days at best. In any case, the USAF which maintains the most complete and widely used space catalog does not & cannot use that transmitter to track the object. They rely exclusively on radar & optical observations to maintain the catalog. And this object is to small to be reliably tracked by the existing sensors unless they've stuck some dipoles on it as they have with other microsat experiments - and even then it's something of a crapshoot. Didn't sound like it from the article. Even if you could track it, most stuff up there doesn't have the ability to manuever to get out of the way even if they did see it coming. And almost nobody would see it coming because almost nobody does any form of collision avoidance analysis.

    So, back to orbits. First, there are some retrograde satellites. Israel in particular doesn't have much of a launch azimuth beyond almost due west down the mediteranean. So you end up with stuff like OFEQ 5 (27434, 2002-025A) with an inclination of about 144 degrees.

    But you don't need to pick out oddballs OFEQ 5 and a handful of other to see the problem. For the moment, we'll ignore eccentricity and right ascension of ascending node and focus on inclination only (ie. the collision occurs at the equator), since that's the most intuitive point to illustrate here.

    ISS (25544, 1998-067A) has an inclination of 51.6 degrees. We'll assume the inclination of "GolfSat" is about the same, since it takes *alot* of energy to change the orbital plane significantly. A quick search of the catalog shows there are 344 objects crossing the orbit of ISS with inclinations ranging from 0.55 degrees (28645, 2005-015B, BLOCK DM-SL R/B) to 97 degrees (27551, 2002-049B, CZ-4B R/B).

    So the inclination difference between ISS and 27551 is about 51 degrees. Let's call the velocity of each object 7 Km/second to keep it simple. The relative velocity of a collision between these objects would be approximately 6 Km/second. I'll leave the trig as an exercise for the reader.

    By comparison, the muzzle velocity of a rifle bullet tops out around 1 Km/second. Taking that as the lower bound of risk, that gives us a inclination difference of just 8 degrees to give GolfSat a relative velocity equal to that of a rifle bullet.

    Of course, inclination isn't the only thing playing as I mentioned before. It's not hard to arrange the orbit geometry such that the angle of incidence at collision is significantly > 90 degrees - ie. getting toward head on.

    So, in short, you don't need anything like "reciprocal orbits" to end up with enormously high relative velocities.

    1. Re:A bit about orbit geometry. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I should add that I don't think this object is of particular risk to ISS, since it will be nearly coplanar. But it is a risk to other operational satellites in this altitude band, plus alot of debris objects. What do you get from a debris vs. debris collision? More debris, which is likely smaller and harder to track. And that debris may well be a risk to ISS.

      Pretty stupid for just a publicity stunt.

    2. Re:A bit about orbit geometry. by khallow · · Score: 1

      I disagree about it being "pretty stupid". While I agree with the analysis of relative orbital mechanics, the fact that this object is only in space for three to four years indicates to me that it's low risk.

    3. Re:A bit about orbit geometry. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Stupid is relative. If it was something other then a publicity stunt, I would probably agree that it was worth the risk.

      I do this stuff for a living - I just made a quick WAG based on some objects in similar orbits and I figure over 4 years this thing probably has a collision risk on the order of 1e-7 give or take an order of magnitude. Not huge - but not trivial either. In my experience satellite operators start getting nervous when the Pc for a given encounter breaks 1e-6.

      Again, if it was anything other then a publicity stunt....

    4. Re:A bit about orbit geometry. by khallow · · Score: 1
      Again, if it was anything other then a publicity stunt....

      But it is. It's revenue for the most active space business on the planet.

  72. Kim Stanley Robinsons Idea Would Be Cooler... by Levendis47 · · Score: 1

    KSR, Author of the ever-popular Red, Green, Blue Mars trilogy of novels as well as a host of other extra- and neo-terrestrial adventures had a good one in his novella collection Icehenge http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0312866097/qid=11 41145898/sr=1-27/ref=sr_1_27/104-7802270-0079101?s =books&v=glance&n=283155

    I believe it's in this one that one of the side stories is about a "space golf" tournament in an astroid field that involves lobbing a small clump of rocket propelled debris at a "hole" astroid and using gravity of others to bend the path of the ball. In a humours take, the whole event is VERY dull, anti-climatic and ends in a draw for lack of time/recalculation by both "participants".

    Almost like the original sport is without debauchery... 8^)

    priceless,
    l8r,
    Levendis47

    --
    --==[ AOL YIM ICQ : Levendis47 : levendis47@yahoo.com ]==--
  73. Apollo 14 by peter303 · · Score: 1

    Astronaut Alan Shepard hit three drives on the moon on Feb 6, 1971 during his Apollo 14 lunar walk. (Remember when the US had a manned space program?)

  74. christ by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    first those freaking muppets end up in space and now golf balls?

  75. Slice by SEWilco · · Score: 1
    Yes, any slice will be difficult to detect and will take a while to become apparent. As the ball rotates it won't be hitting much air. Monitor the orbit and let us know how much it deviates from a ballistic trajectory.

    I'm hoping the swing will be filmed. Hope he strikes it true, rather than having it bounce off the ISS and drift slowly away just out of reach.

  76. Baseball? American Football? by SeanDuggan · · Score: 1
    there are only three sports. Football; baseball; and basketball. Everything else is either a game or an activity.
    I'd disagree with you on Baseball. I find it only slightly less boring than golf, at least at the major leagues. Watching a minor league game is still fun, because the players still care. And as for football, I assume George Carlin was talking about American football. *spits* Maybe half of the game is actually spent playing. The rest is abitrating rules.

    But then again, it's all a matter of opinion. Some people would go on for hours about the skill and technique, the bodily conditioning even, required for a good round of golf. Anything which requires skill rather than just luck is, to me, a sport. It may not be something I like, but I'm willing to give it the label of sport. Football, even American football, can be considered a sport. FPS contests can be considered a sport. Tiddlywinks is a sport. Craps and playing War (the card game) aren't. Roulette isn't. Poker and blackjack are borderline in that there's skill involved, but I'd say that the element of chance plays a greater role than that of skill there.

    --
    This sig has absolutely no significance and serves only to take up screen space and waste the time of the reader.
  77. Numbers are not his strong point by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is the same poster that has previously demonstrated his difficulties with numbers. You'd think inability to count would be a handicap for an aerospace engineer, but apparently not.

  78. Years in Orbit? by Suit_N_Tie · · Score: 0

    I think it orbit the Earth for FORE years!

    *groan*

  79. Last thing the space station needs by icepick72 · · Score: 1

    As long as he doesn't accidentally take a divot out of the space station or slice it and put it thorugh a solar panel ..

  80. Re:orbital mechanics-- BONK! ?? by onemorechip · · Score: 1
    It will go into a different (but intersecting, as you noted) orbit. Assume the station is in a perfectly circular orbit, and that the ball is hit in the direction of orbital travel. After a while, the ball, having higher velocity than the station, will reach apogee (on the opposite side of the earth) which will be higher than the station's orbit. Then the ball will descend to its perigee, which is the same point at which it was struck. But the ball's orbit has a longer semimajor axis than the station's orbit, so it will take longer to make a complete orbit, and will be slightly behind the station when it returns. It could hit the station if this shift in position is less than the length of the station.


    If the ball is hit in the opposite direction from the station's travel, it will instead descend to a perigee and rise back up to meet the station's orbit, but will be ahead of the station.


    Now try to think about what will happen if the ball is hit directly towards the earth, or away from the earth.


    --
    But, I wanted socialized health insurance!
  81. Trusty six iron by apankrat · · Score: 1

    Russian cosmonaut will take his trusty six iron ..

    sounds pretty much like

    American astronaut will take his trusty balalajka and play few of his favourite tunes

    ie - completely out of space.

    PS For those loonies who put this news bit together - 90% of Russians don't even *know* what the golf is.

    --
    3.243F6A8885A308D313
  82. Unless he whiffs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It would be really funny to see him whiff. Or just barely tick the ball, so it slowly but surely dribbled just out of reach... Then maybe he'll throw his club in frustration. "Whoops, now I've damaged the reentry insulation! !@#@%$#%#$^&&*%!"

    No no no. More fun than hitting the ball - chuck the club at the earth! Set up a target in an Illinois cornfield, and see how close you can get!

    1. Re:Unless he whiffs by StikyPad · · Score: 1

      Or just chuck the golf ball at earth, preferably at a PGA tournament in progress. Seeing a golf ball smash into the hole at Mach 10 would finally give me a reason to watch golf.

  83. Accuracy of shot? by stienman · · Score: 1

    Any satellite not inserted into orbit within a few degrees and a few hundred mph of it's intended trajectory is likely to burn up long before it's intended time.

    Since the golf ball has no propulsion ability itself, and they hauled 6 of them up there, are they going to simply wail off 6 shots and hope one actually goes into a reasonable orbit?

    One would assume that they are firing it behind the space station (ie, it will go dozens of mph slower than the space station) so it'll have a better chance of deorbiting, but this information isn't given in the article.

    Going to be a very low power transmitter to last 5 or more years (just in case they miss and it orbits longer), and survive the impact of a golf club. I suppose amateur radio enthusiasts are going to have to look pretty hard to listen to it themselves.

    -Adam

  84. Canadian Club by Reverend528 · · Score: 1

    This is why you shouldn't let Canadian Club sponsor your aerospace program.

  85. elasticity... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    Kinetic energy = 1/2 * m * V * V; transfer depends on the elasticity of the collision.

    Welcome to H.S. physics. Do you really think that any collision this thing might have - at Km/second closure rates - will be anything close to elastic?

  86. Re:Three to four years? (SPACE GOLF) by rewinn · · Score: 1

    Quite right ... and interestingly, golf balls are engineered to maximize the length of their flight, subject to PGA rules. Most likely, that engineering assumes "normal" atmospheric conditions, so I don't know whether the ball will in practice have extended flight in the relatively rarified conditions around the ISS. It might depend on the configuration of the radio antenna as well.

    Also of interest: PGA rules say, "... if you damage or cut your ball, you may change the ball after first asking your opponent or fellow competitor." and "If you hit a tee shot into the woods and suspect that it might be either lost or out-of-bounds, the Rules of Golf allow you to play a second or provisional ball"

    Query: does burning up in the atmosphere count under either rule?

  87. Mrs. Zesterhouse by Joebert · · Score: 0

    Screw the transmitter, send him up there with a camera & an exploding golfball. :)

    Nobody I know who plays golf wants to hear about the same damn golfball for 3-4 friggin years.

    --
    Wanna fight ? Bend over, stick your head up your ass, and fight for air.
  88. Jack O'Neil's not impressed by Asmor · · Score: 1

    He hit a golf ball a few lightyears.

  89. Rules official please - I need a ruling! by Tired+and+Emotional · · Score: 1

    So after the ball burns up on re-entry: Does he have to declare the ball lost and take stroke and distance? - or - Does he get to declare the ball damaged and get to play his next as near as practical to the placed when the ball (would have?) come to rest? These are important questions for scientists (well, the golf playing ones at least)

    --
    Squirrel!
  90. Yet more junk... by Jedi+Holocron · · Score: 1

    ...in orbit. What BS.

  91. Can't get this out of my head by uncamarty · · Score: 1

    I just had a vision of the Cosmonaut hitting the ball, then watching it recede into the distance...
    but as he basks in the congratulations of the crews, the ball hits him in the back of the head.

    Yes, I know that this could only occur if he were not in orbit but you must admit it is a nice thought...

    --
    I am not a manual I am a human being! - The distress call of the TechSupport Badger
  92. BB Guns in Space by lazy+genes · · Score: 0

    Fire the bb gun at earth every 5 second then sit back and watch the light show as they burn up on reentry.

  93. Melt and freeze cycle desroys ball by lazy+genes · · Score: 0

    It will melt and distort itself then freeze and shatter.

  94. If he makes a hole in one by geekoid · · Score: 1

    does he have to buy everyone on earth a drink?

    --
    The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  95. Call me later by frank_adrian314159 · · Score: 1

    ... when they do bowling in space. That'll be worth watching when it hits another satellite.

    --
    That is all.
  96. Talk about being bloated by bob7 · · Score: 1

    "A "launch platform" was developed along with a spring-like space tee that would hold a golf ball in weightlessness yet release it when struck, Hearn said." Am I the only one that thinks they are over-designing this? Is there any reason why they can't velcro the ball to the side of the station? I highly doubt velcro would cause a problem for anyone in this case.

  97. Just do not forget, my golfer friend... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What goes around, comes around.

    Watch out.

  98. Re:orbital mechanics-- BONK! ?? by robbak · · Score: 1

    Ignoring resitance due to the earth's atmosphere (which we really should not do at LEO), yes, it will pass through the exact same point that it was struck.

    However, the ISS will not be there when it returns.

    --
    Prediction for end of Universe #42: Fencepost error in Quantum_bogosort.cpp
  99. Re:orbital mechanics-- BONK! ?? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If it goes faster than escape velocity it never comes back to earth. More accurately, it won't orbit earth, but by coincidence its orbit around the sun may bring it back to earth (I'm wonky with the orbital mechanics with multiple gravity sources, but that's probably right).

  100. the better question... by hangingonwords · · Score: 0

    seems as though there are many posts regarding the golf ball hitting something... but i think we should be more worried about something hitting the golf ball! now THAT'S something to worry about!

    --
    fact: microsoft > linux
  101. First the suit, now this by SteeldrivingJon · · Score: 1


    I figure there are two likely explanations for the recent outbreak of trailer park science in orbit.

    1) They're trying to make the best of a very bad situation, and improvising experiments with what little they have on hand or that can be fit into a supply capsule without displacing too much necessary cargo (food, etc).

    2) They're trying to embarrass NASA and the Congress into raising their funding.

    --
    September 2011: Looking for Cocoa/iOS work in Boston area Cocoa Programmer Quincy, MA
  102. Re:orbital mechanics-- BONK! ?? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yes, it would.