Zelda On The DS, Sega on the Revolution

At the Nintendo Keynote today, Company President Iwata reiterated the same 'think differently' ideas that he espoused at last year's GDC. This time he had concrete data to back up his industry disruption message, detailing the millions in sales their 'Brain Training' line of games have racked up. Along with his message, he announced a new Zelda title on the DS, and the fact that Sega Genesis games will be on the Revolution, a part of the online library of games they're offering.

Comments

Finally! Some Zelda

[nb caffeine]

Too bad it basically rules out having OOT ported to my portable :(

I really really wanted the highest rated game ever to be in my pocket.

Re:Finally! Some Zelda

[steveo777]

The cartriges weren't that big... geez.

Re:Finally! Some Zelda

[SetupWeasel]

Too bad it basically rules out having OOT ported to my portable :(

Cheer up, maybe it will come as a pre-order bonus. ^_^

Re:Finally! Some Zelda

[Anonymous Coward]

There's a masturbation joke just waiting in there somewhere...

Re:Finally! Some Zelda

[TomHandy]

I'm not sure why this would rule out them doing a port of OOT to the DS (like with Super Mario 64). It's actually kind of refreshing though to see them push an entirely new game rather than just a port.

Re:Finally! Some Zelda

[The MAZZTer]

It's probably for the best it isn't. It's already on the original N64, and TWO GameCube Zelda compilations.

Re:Finally! Some Zelda

[Doomstalk]

One less piece of handheld shovelware in the world? Oh no! I, personally, am glad that Nintendo learned from Mario 64 DS. On the N64 it's a classic, on the DS it's an excercise in frustration. I loved OoT too, but this game looks fantastic and is actually designed to take advantage of the system's unique capabilities rather than try to emulate another's.

Re:Finally! Some Zelda

[Pxtl]

I agree - the stylus just doesn't work well as a joystick. I played through the whole thing, and it wasn't until the 50th star or so that I really felt comfortable, and I _still_ got nervous at anything that involved long-distance running.

Perhaps there could be future refinements of the "stylus as joystick" interface, but so far I think Nintendo has to accept that the DS does _not_ have an analog stick - it has a pointing device.

Re:Finally! Some Zelda

[Gizzmonic]

It's easier if you're a lefty. You can manipulate the stylus with the left, and press buttons with the right. Still, feels pretty primitive compared to the very good controls (for its time) on N64.

Re:Finally! Some Zelda

[mwmcmahon]

Why on earth would you use the stylus as a joy stick, when there's a thumb disk on the wrist strap that was made for analog controls? Just position the disk under the tip of your thumb, and tighten the wrist strap around your nail. Instant analog stick that works better (IMO) than most real analog joysticks -- the N64's in particular. What did you think that little disk was for, anyway?

Re:Finally! Some Zelda

[Lehk228]

... or just use the d-pad, it works just fine. i have beaten bowser in m64ds

Re:Finally! Some Zelda

[KDR_11k]

M64DS has the worst digital 3d control I have encountered. These annoyances like Mario not stopping instantly when you stop pushing and not turning instantly as long as he's moving.

Re:Finally! Some Zelda

[Pxtl]

Actually, that's what I was referring to. I was using the thumb disk for M64. And the problem I run into with it is the fact that the area of control migrates too easily - when running long distances you can easily hit the end of the pad - which in racing challenges makes the game insanely frustrating.

Re:Finally! Some Zelda

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe its dsylexia but I could of swore you said "PORTApotty" :p

viva la revolution?

[firl]

When are we going to actually see the revolution though? before the ps3 or before the xbox 720?

Re:viva la revolution?

[sehryan]

http://revolution.ign.com/articles/697/697733p1.ht ml

Been on display at GDC.

Of course, if you are talking games, Iwata implied, and possibly flat out said (can't remember right this moment) that there would be playable games at E3 this year. Which, of course, is pretty obvious if they are planning to launch later this year.

Re:viva la revolution?

[tukkayoot]

It's supposed to launch before Thanksgiving this year.

Regardless of Budget?

[recklez]

SAN JOSE, Calif.--When it was announced that Nintendo president Satoru Iwata would be delivering a keynote speech at the Game Developers Conference this year, the event's organizers said he would "inspire developers to take risks and mine the depths of their imaginations to create innovative games regardless of the size of teams or budgets." Where do we find this guy's phone number. Maybe he has some extra money to give to everyone.

Re:Regardless of Budget?

[Anonymous Coward]

That means low budgets are good enough.

Re:Regardless of Budget?

[SydShamino]

All innovation takes is a new idea, fostered by a good imagination.

Budget is only somewhat related, in that you have to be able to pay people with good imaginations.

Budget is more involved with the cost of graphic designers, codes, etc. None of that is necessarily needed to implement an innovative idea.

Re:Regardless of Budget?

[Anonymous Coward]

The point is to do cool stuff without a big budget. Everyone is always complaining about the same FPS ideas rehashed on a faster processor but now nintendo is giving everyone a chance to really experiment by doing some experimenting themselves. Thats where nintendo's extra money for us seems to be going

Re:Regardless of Budget?

[sehryan]

FYI - Dev kits for the Revolution are running about $2k, which, from what I understand, is dirt cheap compared to what N has charged in the past, and what Sony and MS are charging for theirs.

Hopefully, N will allow indie developers to distribute directly through the online system, thus lowering the barriers for publishing a game.

Re:Regardless of Budget?

[inio]

The better part is furthur down in that article:

The new forms of innovative software that can be created by any size developer will be made available for download via Revolution's Virtual Console service.

(emphasis mine)

Does that sound like homebrew to anyone else?

Re:Regardless of Budget?

[networkBoy]

It's a very smart business move.
Had MS allowed homebrew on their consoles the likelyhood that the console would be comprimised would have been much lower. Ditto for the new console. It is possible to play any game "backed up" to a DVDr on the 360 now (given that you know how to write machine code for the DVD drive).
-nB

Re:Regardless of Budget?

[Rayonic]

MS might be offering a cheap Xbox360 dev kit for around $100.

Not sure how they'd handle making/testing binaries. Maybe you'd have a secure PC -> X360 connection dongle for testing purposes, and have to contact MS when your game is ready for publishing on Xbox Live (or pressed to discs, for really big games.)

Re:Regardless of Budget?

[Anonymous Coward]

For 2k, I might just buy one myself...

Re:Regardless of Budget?

[prockcore]

Dev kits for the Revolution are running about $2k, which, from what I understand, is dirt cheap compared to what N has charged in the past, and what Sony and MS are charging for theirs.

To put it in persepective, Sony just lowered the cost of their PSP dev kit to $5k.

Re:Regardless of Budget?

[Headcase88]

Oh wow, new NES, SNES, and N64 games... That's awesome! Unlikely given its current legality, but I hope this game makes it on the Revo somehow. (Well, not a big deal to me, I've already finished it twice).

Re:Regardless of Budget?

[Anonymous Coward]

Some possible catches to the 100 dollar dev pack:

- Microsoft takes upwards of 75% of the profits from xbox live sales
- The kit is extremely limited, forcing developers to balance playability and graphics - probably limiting the functionality to less than that of the DS. Think DarkBasic Lite
- You can get the dev kit for 100, but getting MS to publish it on live or getting cds pressed legally is going to cost big bucks - ie, you may get the dev kit for 100, but you'll have to pay for MS's quality control folks to test your game
- You'll have to buy a dev kit for each new game you want to publish. IE, you make one game, it sells well, and so you have to buy a new kit for the next game you want to make
- Microsoft will own all content produced with their dev kits, and reserves the right to redistribute without paying you a dime
- it will be 100 dollars per core of the xbox360 you want to take advantage of

... Thinking of the Microsoft licensing schema for Vista, the possibilities are probably endless. It might even end up being 'pick which three ways you want to be screwed in the ass! But you have to pick three, if you want our kit for 100 bucks.'

Re:Regardless of Budget?

[Anonymous Coward]

I've got my money on Very Limited in capability. Along the same lines of the kinds of games you could develop on the PS2 Linux add on. You'll be able to write custom software, but it won't be able to access the disk drive at all (so as to prevent you from writing a loader for burned games) it won't be able to directly access hardware at all. With a very limited SDK for writing games.

Re:Regardless of Budget?

[KillerDeathRobot]

The new forms of innovative software that can be created by any size developer will be made available for download via Revolution's Virtual Console service.

(emphasis mine)

Does that sound like homebrew to anyone else?

It sounds to me like they are finally going to lift their ban on midgets developing Nintendo games.

Re:Regardless of Budget?

[TD-2779]

Hopefully, N will allow indie developers to distribute directly through the online system, thus lowering the barriers for publishing a game.

I believe they DID say that original, smaller games would be available for download.

TurboGrafx!

[Nick of NSTime]

I'm actually in the .1% of people who owned a TurboGrafx (and later a TurboDuo). These systems are emulated wonderfully in Magic Engine. I'm excited about the Revolution's support of Turbo games, but I hope they add in the Konami games from Japan, as most of the American games were just crappy (with some notable exceptions).

Re:TurboGrafx!

[steveo777]

I'm hoping that somehow I can get my hands on the old 3Di Zelda games that came out. I know most people would rather sit through multiple root canals without anesthetic than play the games... but it's something I'd like to experience for myself.

Re:TurboGrafx!

[Nightspirit]

Devil's Crush is the greatest pinball game ever, and it was for the TG16. I have an emulator for my pocket pc.

It has an excellent, evil soundtrack, along with a bunch of bonus tables you can enter while playing on the main table. Not to mention destroying all the skeletons with the pinball. I hope they port it to the revolution, even though I have access to it through my modded xbox.

Re:TurboGrafx!

[sryx]

Oh yeah? I owned a TurboExpress, damn that thing was expensive, but a brilliant system. And in what was perhaps the the single most retarded moment of my life, I sold it to a friend to buy an Atari Jaguar back when they where only launched in San Francisco and New York. I know, I'm not that bright.
-Jason

Re:TurboGrafx!

[SlashdotOgre]

I still own both my TurboExpress (got for about $90 when it was being sold on clearance at Toys'R'Us) and a Atari Jaguar (and a TurboGrafx16 too). You're definitely correct about the TE being a phenomenal handheld. It had arguably the best screen ever put out on a handheld up to the GameBoy Advanced SP. However it did have a few drawbacks, such as being huge and requiring 6 AA's (or was it 8?). These days I only use it with my AC adapter.

Re:TurboGrafx!

[Ryan Amos]

I don't know if they really even qualify as games.. They're more like interactive storybooks. It's not that they're bad, it's just that there's not much there.

Re:TurboGrafx!

[Stormwatch]

If you like that game, you should check this comparison.

Re:TurboGrafx!

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

"However it did have a few drawbacks, such as being huge and requiring 6 AA's (or was it 8?).

Yeah... that thing wasn't very pocket friendly. My dad rigged together a battery pack. My memory is fuzzy but I think it was something like several nicad D cells into a pack that was roughly the size of the TE. Then he put a really long cable on it. That battery lasted like 10 hours a charge. At this point, it was luggable instead of portable, but it was awesome on the camping trip we took that summer. It also had a TV tuner you could purchase for it. And you know what? It worked pretty well! The TE was the only non-Nintendo portable I truely had fun with.

Re:TurboGrafx!

[ClamIAm]

I'm one of the 99.9% of people that didn't get to play TurboGrafx games, so I'm probably as excited as you are. I mean, other than hunting down a used console and games, how else could I experience the arcade feel ?

Thats it?

[Anonymous Coward]

There have been three GDC writeups so far, including one from the Sony keynote, and all of them fairly lengthy.

Nintendo's keynote gets what, three sentences?

Re:Thats it?

[GweeDo]

Three senteces that were worth more than all the other combined :)

Re:Thats it?

[Headcase88]

C'mon man, haven't you been listening to Iwata? Less is more ;D

Re:Thats it?

[Tsaot]

The bigwigs at the big N in general are famous for getting people excited over things we already knew by slipping in a bite or two of actual news with the repetitve stuff. So yeah, in three sentences, here is all of the new information safely extracted from a much larger presentation.

Re:Thats it?

[pembo13]

The Slashdot singularity does not like Nintendo. Not sure why.

Video Trailer

[tmjr3353]

Here's a link a page where you can view the released trailer for the announced Zelda DS game. Can't wait to get my hands on this!

Re:Video Trailer

[drwiii]

Better quality trailer over here, if you can put up with WMV.

Re:Video Trailer

[steveo777]

Thank you, I needed that. Now I need a clean pair of slacks... :(

Links are wrong

[(A)*(B)!0_-]

Those two links are backwards:

Revolution to play Genesis and Turbografx games
Zelda on the DS

Re:Links are wrong

[WheresMyDingo]

Those two links are backwards

Link backwards? Wrong? A bit harsh I think. Sure, the little green hat is dated, but... oh, wait

I loved my Genesis

[OverDrive33]

Kudos to Nintendo! I know a lot of my non-gamer friends are excited to see games from older systems (especially NES and SNES) able to be played on the next gen Nintendo system.
Everyone knows a major factor on if game systems fail or prosper is the number of good titles they have. Sony and MS are pushing developers to make new crazy things for their new crazy system. Nintendo chooses to 'think differently' and use older - already proven good - game content for their new system - in addition to the titles that will be new to the Revolution.

Although something about Sonic the Hedgehog being played on a Nintendo system that doesn't sit right with me. :)

Re:I loved my Genesis

[Werkhaus]

w000t! ToeJam & Earl on the Revolution!

Re:I loved my Genesis

[eqisow]

There's lots of Sonic games on the Gameucbe (though none are good), as well as a couple of 'compilation' game disc with the older Sonic games on them. So, in short: been there, done that.

Re:I loved my Genesis

[PitaBred]

The compilation disc is for the PS2 as well. Not that I have it or anything...

Re:I loved my Genesis

[Pxtl]

Screw Sonic. I'm just looking forward to sitting down with some buddies and brawling through the Gauntlet games and Golden Axe.

Re:I loved my Genesis

[Anonymous Coward]

Sonic Rush on the DS is IMO the best Sonic game.

Re:I loved my Genesis

[somersault]

Well considering the PS2 could play PSX games, and I expect the PS3 would provide backward compatability as well (and also the PSP can/will play PSX games?), why so much Kudos to Ninendo now? Sony may have not released many systems, but they have done well with the PS2 on compatability and value for money, in that you can have one console to play all your games/movies etc. , and they're continuing that with the PS3

Re:I loved my Genesis

[metrunecs]

I love Golden Axe. Whenever I think of old games that defined my childhood, it's always Golden Axe. My babysitter used to have a Genesis that we would play that all night on.

Re:I loved my Genesis

[buffer-overflowed]

Well, in the case of the PSP playing PS games, a lot of them are rather big, full of FMV and CD-audio, so w/o modification they take up a lot of space. You can't casually store a ton of them even on a modern harddrive, much less on any kind of flash media. There also aren't as many classics you'd still play over newer versions in that library as in the one we're talking about(you have a PS2, right? How many PS games do you pop in for a playthrough once a year? The market for this older stuff does that with a large number of titles), and it spans half the time period.

The size of the stuff is the real killer though. You don't typically download and store PS games, you burn them, pop them on a spindle and play them on a modded console, or use the original media. And it's a pain versus the older stuff or N64 everything done in code stuff which is far smaller.

The other killer is that 3D graphics don't age well compared to sprite-based stuff. All the pre-N64/PS/Saturn games look just like you remember them. The initial wow factor of the 3D graphics has long since worn off. Like Quake 2 versus Quake 4. So they look like ass. Personally, I have trouble playing through a lot of the initial 3D-era classics, including FFVII and Ocarina of Time. There are some quirky or just downright awesome games I can play, like Intelligent Cube and Vagrant Story, or Conker, but in my mind the library just isn't as big.

As an example of this, go watch Toy Story. When that movie first came out, it was incredibly impressive. Compare how well it's aged versus some of the older Disney animated film.

The other thing is the PS2 already plays PS and PS2 games, whereas the only way to be completely in the "white" with all this older stuff is to dump the ROM yourself and emulate it. No one does this, we take the grey area of going out and downloading it(obtaining a copy of something we own), or go into the illegal realm and just download it. So now you have a completely legit and relatively easy way to play 20 years of console games, including what's looking to be the entirety of what many consider to be the golden age(SNES/Genesis) because 2D hit a pinacle that's only just now starting to get surpassed with stuff like Viewtiful Joe and apparently the Zelda DS title. This is a big deal. We get 20 years of stuff, plus all the current stuff, plus new stuff.

The catch-22 being that if Sony had never had backwards compat, the PS3 having it would also be a big deal. But right now the PS2 is so ubiquitious that the PS3 playing PS2 and PS1 games just isn't noteworthy, it's expected, and the value of it is less, to me anyway, than what Nintendo is offering.

And the last thing is that the Rev controller is modular, so console-specific shells are pretty much assured. Which means original controller for the original game, something that's been traditionally tough to do outside keeping your old console around.

Re:I loved my Genesis

[somersault]

"here also aren't as many classics you'd still play over newer versions in that library as in the one we're talking about(you have a PS2, right? How many PS games do you pop in for a playthrough once a year?"

Well I dont play the PS2 much, only tends to be when I go home for a holiday or something, but for example I'd rather play Gran Turismo 2 than 3, just because there are more cars in it, not just the supercars, so I could race in models similar to cars that I've driven and so on. I agree that the graphics look dated on most games today, but I still tend to play for the gameplay. Vagrant Story is one good example I guess, I played it for a while, got stuck in the Snowfly Forest, managed to work it out one weekend while home, and since then (a year or 2 ago) haven't been able to play it, though I'm planning to finish it off one day. Yeah it'll be nice when people realise that just because 3D is the latest doesn't mean it's the best.. for example the original Monkey Islands were great fun, and I was going to say I wish they'd bring out more in that genre - then ironically remembered that the last Monkey Island was in 3D (though still good fun).

Never thought I'd see the day

[Rude Turnip]

If you told me 15 years ago that the Sega Genesis library would be available for Nintendo I'd never believe you. Not because I didn't think it was possible, but because I don't believe in time travellers.

Re:Never thought I'd see the day

[Mercano]

Genesis and SNES games on the same machine? Legally? /me prepares for the apocalypse. (Yeah, yeah, I know Sega and Nintendo have been on good terms for a few years now, what with Sonic Advance and Monkey Balls, but still, this is 16-bit stuff we are talking about. They were after each other with a vengence back then.)

On the plus side, I wouldn't mind them porting Knights or whatever that game was called.

Re:Never thought I'd see the day

[tepples]

Genesis and SNES games on the same machine? Legally?

GameCube was first: Super Mario Advance series in Game Boy Player, and Sonic Mega Collection.

Re:Never thought I'd see the day

[Anonymous Coward]

On the plus side, I wouldn't mind them porting Knights or whatever that game was called.

I'm guessing the name you're looking for is "Rocket Knight Adventures". I never played it myself, but there's no time like the present...

Re:Never thought I'd see the day

[boarder8925]

I wouldn't mind them porting Knights or whatever that game was called.

I believe the game you're looking for is NiGHTS into Dreams for the Saturn:

Players take the role of either Claris or Elliot, two children living in the city of Twin Seeds. In their dreams, they enter the world of Nightopia, where all human dreams are played out. An evil creature known as Wizeman is gathering power to take control of the dream world. The children attempt to save Nightopia by teaming up with NiGHTS, a Nightmaren (nightmare-dweller) who rebelled against Wizeman.

Re:Never thought I'd see the day

[boarder8925]

And now I realize that tepples was talking about the Genesis, not the Saturn.

Re:Never thought I'd see the day

[ClamIAm]

Genesis and SNES games on the same machine? Legally?

Please stop perpetuating myths about emulation. Emulation of computer hardware is legal, and making backups of games you own is legal. This means you can legally play SNES and Genesis games on your PC, provided you own the games you have ROM images of.

Yeah, you can say "but 99% of emulation is illegal". This argument is bunk. It's like claiming MP3 is used for piracy (and therefore illegal), when there are in fact many legal uses for it.

Re:Never thought I'd see the day

[Anonymous Coward]

All I want is the Genesis version of Shadowrun, and I am a happy man.

Re:Never thought I'd see the day

[Anonymous Coward]

Also providing your images came from your copies. You have the right to make a backup, not the right to obtain a backup. There's a difference.

Re:Never thought I'd see the day

[dcapel]

I have sonic mega collection for gamecube; it has like 10 oldschool sega games.

Three horses have already been seen.

Re:Never thought I'd see the day

[Queer Boy]

There's been rumours for a while that Sonic Team was going to make a sequel to NiGHTS on the Gamecube. At this point I'd just be happy for a DS port. NiGHTS was one of the most fun and visually stuninng games I've ever played.

Re:Never thought I'd see the day

[ClamIAm]

Try reading my post again, kthx.

Re:Revolution?

[Anonymous Coward]

wish I'd said revolutionary instead of revolutional - pretty sure that's not a real word.

must not post after drinking wine.

Re:Revolution?

[SetupWeasel]

I know!

I can't believe they are making another Ratchet and Clank. Or that damned Project Gotham Racing. I know no one is looking forward to Halo 3 or the 6th Jak and/or Daxter game.

Wait... I think I messed up there.

The price is right

[FadedTimes]

I suspect Nintendo is going to do well in Sales and profits after releasing the Revolution and online services.
As long as the downloadable games are cheap and the console does release as the lowest priced console this year.
Such good news.

Re:The price is right

[NewWorldDan]

Well, if the prices are right, they can count on me to buy a unit. Will they make replicas of the original controllers for gamers to use? That'd rock. I haven't bought a console in a very long time (except for some of those joysticks that have Pac Man and Pole Position and plug into the TV directly.)

And where's Wil Wright?

[Anonymous Coward]

Wil Wright had the keynote after Nintendo's, he went from noon to 1 PM, it should be long over by now. It was expected he would talk about Spore, which I am really curious about. Do we get a writeup on that? Is there even a play-by-play of his keynote anywhere? I can't find information on it anyplace.

P.S.-- not mentioned in the slashdot blurb-- during the Nintendo keynote today, they unexpectedly invited Wil Wright on stage to play a multiplayer game of Brain Training DS. Wright lost the first game and won the second ^_^

Nerdgasm!

[RyoShin]

While lacking the details some of us were hoping for, such as an official name or any extra info on the Revolution itself, this is still some damned good news.

With all that Nintendo is bringing out this year, such as Metroid Prime: Hunters, The New Super Mario Bros, (supposedly) new Pokemon games, and now Phantom Hourglass, it makes me weep softly at my lack of funds. At least I have even more reason to wait until DS Lite hits the shores. Between all that, Twilight Princess, and the Revolution, Nintendo is most likely going to get all of my free income this year, and rightly so.

The announcement that Genesis games will be on the Revolution is completely awesome; even though Sega has put out the classic Sonic games 18 times over, it will still be fun to play them on the Rev. Plus, you have games like Echo the Dolphin, Road Rash, and more. Even better, this could pave the way for 32X, Sega CD, and Sega Saturn games. I doubt we'd ever see Dreamcast games; while the Revolution will certainly be more powerful than the Dreamcast, would it be able to emulate the Dreamcast?

So, while these might be more minor announcements in the face of other things coming from Nintendo, but it's Good News none the less.

Although, we still don't have a specific state side release date for the DS Lite, do we? Dammit.

Re:Nerdgasm!

[Anonymous Coward]

I doubt we'd ever see Dreamcast games; while the Revolution will certainly be more powerful than the Dreamcast, would it be able to emulate the Dreamcast?

I would suspect that the Power difference between the Revolution and the Dreamcast is at least as large as the XBox 360 is to the XBox. what is probably holding back Sega CD, Saturn and Dreamcast games is that Nintendo is VERY careful when it comes to piracy; there is currently no information on what format the Revolution's discs are, meaning they could be a varation of a DVD or a non-standard HD format (remember the Gamecube's disc were a small version of a format [created by Panasonic] that was rejected that was then modified) and it is unlikely that Nintendo would allow the system to use a conventional DVD or CD format as a game disc. Sega CD, Saturn and Dreamcast discs could all be too similar to a existing format so Nintendo may have the drive reject these discs to prevent piracy.

I admit, I could be wrong and these formats may be included; Nintendo may not have announced it because they're not going to be delivered in a digital format.

Re:Nerdgasm!

[jeffbax]

There is only 512 MB of flash memory in the Revolution, I do not think that Saturn and Dreamcast games would fit whether or not the machine could emulate them. I do hope they bring Sonic CD over though, that game isn't too big either.

Re:Nerdgasm!

[eqisow]

"Even better, this could pave the way for 32X, Sega CD, and Sega Saturn games. I doubt we'd ever see Dreamcast games; while the Revolution will certainly be more powerful than the Dreamcast, would it be able to emulate the Dreamcast?" Emulating the Dreamcast would not be a problem. The fact that the Revolution would comes with 512 megs of flash, however, would be a huge problem. Even if you expanded it with a 2GB SD card (expensive!), you could still only fit a couple games I would think.

Re:Nerdgasm!

[Reapman]

I'll second that! When I saw Genesis I nearly drooled... I grew up on the sega side, started with the SMS, moved to Genesis, then nothing until PS2 many years later. I wonder if any SMS games will be on (and I'm probably one of two people that would actually care to see that but oh well :D)

Re:Nerdgasm!

[xouumalperxe]

Well, I scoured the 'net for a bloody Shinobi ROM (the one for the Mega Drive), so I can perfectly relate to your craving.

Re:Nerdgasm!

[Dorceon]

You don't need to fit the Saturn game on the SD card. You just need to fit the Saturn emulator on the SD card. Then you put the saturn game in the slot-load drive.

Re:Nerdgasm!

[Dorceon]

I would also accept putting the emulator in ROM. Either way, Sega can add a few games to the budget line simply by pulling out the old gold CD masters, pressing new copies, and putting Revolution (or whatever the new system will be called--Revolution is too similar to 360 for my taste anyways) badging on the package. It could even say "Also plays on Sega Saturn" on the back.

Re:Nerdgasm!

[jeffbax]

The problem with that is that you then need Saturn game discs... which are not exactly common for most people, and those who do have them (like me) probably still have a working Saturn...

Re:Nerdgasm!

[Mercano]

Grandparent was saying Sega would press new discs from the master copies in the vault.

Re:Nerdgasm!

[KDR_11k]

That's why he said Sega could reissue Saturn games and sell them as Rev games.

Re:Nerdgasm!

[Queer Boy]

With all that Nintendo is bringing out this year

You forgot Tetris DS. It's a total fangasm. The new push mode, if nothing else catches your eye, is worth the price of the game. It's Tetris tug of war. I just wish Nintendo had added rumble feature when you cleared a line. That would have been fun.

Re:Nerdgasm!

[Queer Boy]

The Revolution download service is definitely meant for retro gaming. however if there's going to be a whole slew of emulators for this game, you can be sure it won't be long before companies start releasing more collections like Namco does, only it would be newer ports.

Hopefully the one thing this will do is revive the great old and abandoned franchises (Bonk, Kid Icarus, RC Pro AM, ToeJam and Earl, etc).

Zelda DS

[jshackles]

Was anyone besides me disappointed that the Zelda game they've announced for the DS carries the same graphical style of Wind Waker for the Gamecube? Granted it's pretty impressive for them to do on a handheld, and this game looks great... but I was hoping for more of a classic "link to the past" feel.

Re:Zelda DS

[scarpa]

Actually I was totally stoked to see them using cel-shading again and it was one of the first things I noticed on the trailer.

Wind Waker's art was awesome and inspired. I can't say the same about Twilight Princess unfortunately.

Re:Zelda DS

[edwdig]

What's the difference? Link to the Past had a cartoonish graphical style very similar to Wind Waker, and the animations tended to be exaggerated like in cartoons (think Pegasus Boots related stuff in particular).

Re:Zelda DS

[bdreadz]

I'm actually excited. I really liked wind waker **ducks**... So this is actually going to get me to purchase a nintendo ds system. It's the straw that just broke this camel's back.

Re:Zelda DS

[MilenCent]

Don't worry about it. The thing that's made the N64 Zeldas and Wind Waker different from Link to the Past in feel isn't so much the graphics but the fact that it's a 3D-style game. The footage of Phantom Hourglass makes it obvious that while it uses 3D Wind Waker-style graphics, it's still definitely a 2D Zelda. Remember, Wind Waker's graphics were made cel-shaded not just to do something new, but because the style was the best way to have old style character designs and visuals in a 3D world.

Re:Zelda DS

[mrgreen4242]

Nope, I think you are the only one. It looks like the best of ALL worlds: classic 2d style game play, with gorgeous 3D graphics (which presumably means cool game engine cut scenes, and hopefully means some puzzles that involve looking at things from a different angle), PLUS unique interfaces that could only be done on the DS (the boomerang looks like perhaps the best innovation on an old concept I've seen yet). I'm hoping for the system to take advantage of the mic a little, just to throw us for a loop on a puzzle or two and that they implement some sort of WiFi multiplayer component. A more difficult co-op option? Maybe a dungeon that you can only open with two players working together?

Re:Zelda DS

[Justin205]

From what I've seen, Twilight Princess is more... Standard, but just as visually pleasing to me. Plus, in my mind, it's not the graphics that make a Zelda game great. It's mostly the gameplay, with a couple splashes of story in there.

Re:Zelda DS

[Anonymous Coward]

I agree, I thought a major plus for windwakers style was you could clearly see the characters expressions during gameplay.

Re:Zelda DS

[Justin205]

Yeah, Link's expressions in particular were great! And the camera style allowed you really easy access to seeing them. Link sneaking around is still probably my favourite. :)

Re:Zelda DS

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't get why everyone hates the Wind Waker's look. It was brilliant! It was the gameplay that let me down. Pacing just wasn't good enough and the canned feel of the combat just felt stale by that point, and I haven't seen anything to indicate that they've corrected this in Twilight Princess.

This new DS game however looks awesome. But then again, I've always liked the handheld Zelda games better than the 3D console ones. Even OoT, which I adore.

Re:Zelda DS

[LordVader717]

"A Link To The Past" was the first thing the music in the trailer reminded me of. (it's the dark world theme)

Re:Zelda DS

[Dasaan]

Me too, I loved the graphical style of Wind Waker. It suited the story and gameplay perfectly.

That said I do hope the new game doesn't end up being the huge crappy fetch quest that Wind Waker ended up being. The maps and sunken treasure would have been a nice side quest but making it the main quest sucked big time.

Re:Zelda DS

[rabbot]

I'm really happy they chose to go with the cel-shaded style for this version. Pretty much all GB/GBC/GBA Zelda games have had the LttP style for the most part. (LttP is probably my favorite Zelda next to the original though, so I wouldn't of had any complaints either way).

Benefits of 'Virtual Console'

[Anonymous Coward]

Some people probably don't understand the benefits of the 'virtual console' and (probably) assume that it is some sort of gimick that won't help Nintendo. The truth is that in the past couple of christmas' those plug and play coleco/atari units (that have 4 or 5 games on them) have been some of the biggest selling videogames; even though they're not followed by the conventional gaming media. What this shows is there is a certain level of comercial viability in 2D games (in particular formerly popular 2D games) which isn't really being capatalized upon by anyone.

Re:Benefits of 'Virtual Console'

[TomHandy]

To be fair, it seems like Microsoft is stressing the idea of those kinds of games with the Xbox Live Arcade (and making some more high profile releases like Street Fighter II). Still not sure if it will be quite as big as what Nintendo has planned though.

Re:Benefits of 'Virtual Console'

[porcupine8]

What this shows is there is a certain level of comercial viability in 2D games (in particular formerly popular 2D games) which isn't really being capatalized upon by anyone.

Yes, thank goodness those of us who hate 3D are going to get what we want! I was so excited to hear that a new 2D mario game is in the works. I find 3D games confusing to navigate, annoying to use weapons in, and in some cases downright nauseating to watch. I realize the companies want to show off what they can do with 3D, but it is entirely possible to make a 2D game with beautiful graphics.

Re:Benefits of 'Virtual Console'

[woolio]

2D games are fun because of the game play itself, not the fancy graphics... (Look at the popularity of Super Mario Bros, Tetris, etc).

Personally, I think the 3D Mario for the N64 just plain sucked.

50 years ago, they managed to make decent movies in black-and-white, and sometimes even without sound. They needed good camerawork and careful plot design. Now, many Hollywood movies only seem to focus on spectacular explosions, sex scenes, and no plot.

Re:Benefits of 'Virtual Console'

[222]

Absolutely!
You would think the success of the portable Castlevania games would serve as a reminder, but game developers seem to have forgotten ; /

I guess this is why I spend just as much, if not more time playing NES roms than I do cutting edge PC titles.

Re:Benefits of 'Virtual Console'

[Queer Boy]

it is entirely possible to make a 2D game with beautiful graphics.

It sure is. You also can make LOTS of money doing it, too.

Re:Revolution?

[sehryan]

So it isn't innovation if they use the same characters, even if the gameplay is completely new and amazing?

Thinking about Mario 64. Pretty much considered a ground-breaking game in terms of 3D on a console. Yet, according to the way you put it, it is just another Mario game.

They can use Mario or any of the others as much as they want as long as they keep making the games fun.

Plus, as a side note, there has been talk of a new franchise being launched with the Rev.

Subliminal messages possible in games?

[Anonymous Coward]

I always thought that adding subliminal messages to games would be something worth investigating. I wouldn't mind having messages to help me stop eating, procrastinating, etc, inserted while I'm gaming.

Re:Subliminal messages possible in games?

[Anonymous Coward]

I wouldn't mind having messages to help me stop eating, procrastinating, etc, inserted while I'm gaming.

I doubt anybody would object, so long as the subliminal messages were only inserted into your games.

question

[ecc0]

since some games were released on both the genesis and the snes, but one console had what was widely considered the superior version (example: the nhl hockey series was always better on genesis while other multi platform games benefitted a lot from snes' superior graphics capabilities), are they going to release BOTH or ONE of the versions in this case? i mean even if it was 15 years ago nintendo probably wouldn't want to admit a genesis version was better than the snes one... or would they!

Re:question

[Impossis]

Well they should release both, if they're offering ports from the entire libraries of both consoles

Re:question

[Anonymous Coward]

The only cross platform game I remember actually being better on the Genesis was Mortal Kombat 1. The SNES had the better overall graphics, but the lack of blood and original fatalities on the SNES were what really put the Genesis version on top.

Re:question

[tukkayoot]

Well they should release both, if they're offering ports from the entire libraries of both consoles

But they won't, unless I'm badly mistaken.

It will be up to the publishers of these old games to decide whether or not they want the game to be played on the Revolution's Virtual Console. Nintendo can't just start selling old SNES Konami or EA games just because they feel like it, they'll need each other's permission.

If a publisher does decide to sell one of its older titles for the Revolution's Virtual Console, it will likely be up to them which version of the game is sold (if not both), though Nintendo might put some pressure on them to sell only the SNES version, I don't imagine they will press too hard for that condition.

Re:question

[poot_rootbeer]

Nintendo can't just start selling old SNES Konami or EA games just because they feel like it, they'll need each other's permission.

Remember, back in the day, Nintendo required its licensees to give the games to Nintendo themselves for cartridge production.

It's possible, but surely not definite, that the contracts signed way back when still give Nintendo permission to "produce" copies of those games at their discretion.

I don't think The Big N would do that, though. For one thing, there would surely be a lengthy court case to determine whether the intent of the contract covered network downloads in addition to physical cartridge production. For another, they've still got a small fraction of the modern console market, and if they want to gain share they're going to want to stay on friendly terms with as many third-party publishers as possible.

My 3 to you Nintendo

[Anonymous Coward]

And this is why I never lost hope in their products even while everyone was like 'OMG XBOX this, PS2 that' in 2002-3 and giving Nintendo crap for their 'childish' library. They just didn't understand that its their innovations that are fueling the race. For every 1 really awesome game on Xbox or PS2 there is about 150 crap ones (I havnt seen many decent PSP games out yet either, my favourite being Lumenes... A really simple & basic puzzle game that is just so innovative & visually appealing), however for the such small library of games on 64, gamecube, gba, ds there are soo many good ones, soo many that push the barrier for gaming up a notch disallowing publishing companies like EA to never be able to compete on the same level.

Hudson

[Is0m0rph]

Excellent! I still play the 5 SNES Bomberman games. If Hudson is supported we should be able to play them on the Revolution.

Re:Hudson

[fader]

The Bomberman games all rocked, but I would gladly stab anyone to get Saturn Bomberman playable on a modern console. That was the best party game ever made, bar none.

Re:Hudson

[CastrTroy]

I somehow missed out on bomberman for NES and SuperNES, and then when we got a gamecube my girlfriend told me we had to get Bomberman. We got Bomberman Generations. One of the best games I own.

Re:Hudson

[wickedj]

The Bomberman games will most likely be available for the Rev. I think when the article mentions Hudson, it's probably talking about the TurboGrafx 16 console which was jointly developed by Hudson and NEC. The TGs mascot was the memorable cavemand Bonk from Bonks Adventure.

Re:Hudson

[Anonymous Coward]

OH JUST GREAT!

thank you SO much. Now I get to deal with the happy Japanesey upbeat Bomberman theme (bomberman 5 sfami version) in my head for the rest of the work day.

ITS ONLY 9AM!!!!

arghhh.

Revolutional?

[uberjoe]

I rather see an AC pick up a dictionary once in a while.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=r evolutional

Re:Revolutional?

[Anonymous Coward]

I rather see an AC pick up a dictionary once in a while.

No problem. I'll pick up one for you while I'm at it..

Nice

[danielk1982]

Awesome use of the touch screen. And of course..Zelda...

I think DSLite will be my first portable.

Re:Revolution?

[SetupWeasel]

Is there really any point in producing potentially the most innovative controller since the NES d-pad if all they will use it for is to jump on the heads of / outrace various characters from the Mario multiverse?

You are obviously not paying attention.

2 questions here

[jonwil]

1.I wonder if they are going to use actual emulation for the games or if its going to be some kind of rewrite or partial rewrite...

and 2.Why dont we see more companies making their back catalogs available

Re:2 questions here

[Zarxrax]

It will surely be emulation. It wouldn't make a whole lot of sense to rewrite every single game...

Re:2 questions here

[The MAZZTer]

Nintendo has already used emulation lots: - Super Game Boy (SNES) - Pokemon Stadium (N64, emulates GB Pokemon Games) - Pokemon Stadium 2 (N64, emulates GB/GBC Pokemon Games) - Game Boy Player (GC) These I'm less certain, because of changes, but the memory card screens in the game as well as the disc loading screens make me pretty sure they ARE emulated: - Zelda Promotional Disc (GC, emulates Zelda, Zelda 2, Zelda OoT, and Zelda MM. Certain graphics and text have been tweaked in the final two.) - Zelda Master Quest (GC, Zelda OoT and MQ. Again, hud graphics and text referring to "Z-Targetting" has been tweaked to match the GC controller.)

Re:2 questions here

[edwdig]

The Super GameBoy and GameBoy Player aren't emulators. They are actual GameBoy motherboards in different casing, with the i/o routed through the host console.

All old Zeldas made available for the GameCube are emulated. Metroid 1 in Metroid Prime is emulated as well. All NES games in Animal Crossing are emulated (both when played on the GameCube or loaded onto the GBA). The Classic NES Series of GBA games are emulated as well.

There are actually some homebrew projects out there that will take the NES & N64 emulators off the Zelda Collection discs and allow you to use them with other games.

Re:2 questions here

[TrancePhreak]

This post is actually incorrect. The Zelda games were ported by NST to work with the GameCube. Little was done to change them other than the obvious differences in consoles. I have a friend who worked on the compilation disc, so all this info is direct from there.

Re:2 questions here

[Anonymous Coward]

Are you sure? From Wikipedia:

"These games are not actually ported in the traditional sense, but rather the (slightly altered) ROMs of the original games are run via emulators; this has been proven by the ROM dumping community, who have been able to extract authentic ROMs of all these games from the disc, and they can even be booted on their original consoles with a copier or flash-cart (depending on the console)."

Re:2 questions here

[edwdig]

I don't believe that. I've seen projects that extract the N64 emulator from the Ocarina of Time/Master Quest Bonus Disc, and I've seen ROM dumps of Master Quest that play on N64 emulators.

I haven't seen dumps, but I've heard reports comparing the emulator found on the compilation disc with the emulator on the Ocarina of Time disc. The compilation disc one supposedly gets better framerates than the older one.

As for the compilation disc, why would Nintendo choose to port the games considering it's well established that they created an N64 emulator the the Ocarina of Time disc? The Compilation Disc was just a free giveaway, so they weren't making money off of it. The N64 and GameCube hardware are very different, so it's wouldn't be just a simple port.

Re:2 questions here

[Anonymous Coward]

Indeed. You can actually take the game disc out once the game of your choice has loaded, without getting the usual "Please close the disc cover" message, and play as long as you like...the entire game runs from GC memory. (Although you still need the disc in the drive to load and save games; maybe it passes to an external memory card manager on the disc, or maybe it's a copy protection thing.)

Re:2 questions here

[bombadillo]

Why dont we see more companies making their back catalogs available

Lets see....

1. Atari no longer makes Atari consoles. But you can buy those little Atari like things in any store. I almost bought one just for Yars Revenge
2. The Connecticut Leather Company no longer sells colecos.
3. Sega no longer makes Sega consoles. Although the genisis could play SMS games with an adapter.
4. Hudson no longer sells TurboGraphix consoles.
5. Neo-Geo is no longer sold and no one could afford to buy them when they were sold.
6. 3D0 why bother... 7. Playstation 2 can play playstation 1 games.
8. Xbox is to new to really have a back catalog.


Ninento is smart for getting into the legacy game market. They can most likey provide these games on the cheap and make good money. Kind of like Apple with iTunes. I am definitely going to buy a Revolution just so I can play games with out having to wory about finding roms and dealing with emulation issues. Hell my modded XBOX gets more play time with the nes and n64 emulator than XBOX games.

Re:2 questions here

[doctor_no]

You forgot Animal Crossing on the Gamecube. You could get a NES in the game where you could play emulated classic NES games like Punch Out.

Re:2 questions here

[jonwil]

Gameboy Player and Super Gameboy arent emulation, I believe the Super Gameboy actually had a GameBoy Z80 CPU inside and I wouldnt be surprised if the GB Player had the Gameboy Advance ARM chipset in it.

Re:2 questions here

[sehryan]

My wife is not a gamer. She couldn't care less about the current generation, much less the next-gen stuff.

But as soon as I told her that NES and SNES games would be playable through the Revolution, she said we were definitely getting one. Rocks for me.

This is great news!

[Anonymous Coward]

Im hoping more 3rd parties add their titles to the Nintendo 'virtual console'. I would love to see Tecmo Super Bowl for sale, the best football game ever made.

Great, but...

[Anonymous Coward]

is there a Crash Bandicoot connection?

I can see it now..

[Khyber]

Alien Soldier on the Revolution. The game that took the 68000 core in the Genesis and set it's ass on FIRE . I REALLY wish they'd make an up-to-date version of that good platformer.

Lockout chip business model

[tepples]

All innovation takes is a new idea, fostered by a good imagination.

And the budget to convince the console maker to sign your code.

Re:Lockout chip business model

[KDR_11k]

Didn't that get paid from the money your game makes at retail?

Re:Lockout chip business model

[tepples]

Not all games make money at retail. For instance, games developed by developers who are learning on their own time to develop for the system are generally not intended to be sold at retail. Some games are of local interest and are not intended to be sold nationally at retail, but the console makers have not historically made allowances for this. In addition, all three console makers have tended to demand the licensing fees up-front, which shuts out startups.

Re:Lockout chip business model

[somersault]

you have to convince them that the game will make anything at retail tho.. or maybe just provide some kind of incentive so that they definitely aren't going to lose out .. though that seems a bit infeasible for a software house if it doesnt have that much cash.

ROM sites

[payndz]

I guess Nintendo (and Sega, and Hudson, and anyone else who gets involved) will now be setting their lawyers on all the 'abandonware' ROM sites for outdated consoles...

Re:ROM sites

[rsborg]

I guess Nintendo (and Sega, and Hudson, and anyone else who gets involved) will now be setting their lawyers on all the 'abandonware' ROM sites for outdated consoles...

As long as "unsigned" ROMs aren't playable on their systems, I doubt they would really care... well, any more than they already have.

I'm guessing it will take about a year before some asshat figures out how to "hack" the Revolution to allow standard ROMs to work; then the crackdown may happen.

Till then, they are trying to quash the "modded xbox" as their competitor? Not really, their competitor is Xbox360's download feature.

In related news, someone asked Sony what their response was... *crickets*

Re:ROM sites

[astrosmash]

Did they ever stop going after the ROM sites? If you're hired as an IP lawyer, your job is to go after IP violations and you're probably going to go after the low-hanging fruit first.

But I hope they realize that the emulation community, rom sites and all, are not their enemy. If anything, it helps them by increasing interest in these old games. I think that most people who are really excited about the classic games offered by Nintendo are already well acquainted with these games via emulation, but they'll pay to play them on Nintendo anyway.

I've been following the emulation scene from the very beginning, yet, for example, I've just purchased the Midway Classics disc for GameCube despite the fact that I've been playing these games on my PC for many years. Why? Because it's convenient. I don't play these games all that often, but if I'm hanging out with friends and the idea of a little multi-player Gauntlet comes up, it's set up on my TV in a matter of seconds. No dicking around with controller settings or downloading new ROMs because MAME has been updated, or any of that crap.

I think Nintendo's classic game service will be a smash, despite the fact that most fans have already played these games on their PCs via emulation.

Re:ROM sites

[eMartin]

The only reason the ROM sites are around is because nobody is still selling most of the games that they offer.

Whether they play on then new systems is irrelevant. If you can play them on your PC, they will assume that they are losing possible sales.

Re:ROM sites

[pembo13]

Please. To all the ROM hackers, let the Nintendo library please. Go hack at Sony and Microsoft. I want everything Nintendo brings out to be cheap.

Re:ROM sites

[vitaflo]

They've actually been doing this for years. Nintendo has always been the most ruthless when going after ROM sites.

Re:ROM sites

[Anonymous Coward]

So Nintendo DS and PSP "rom" sites are around because nobody is currently selling those games?

Zelda for CD-i

[tepples]

I'm hoping that somehow I can get my hands on the old 3Di Zelda games that came out.

You mean CD-i Zelda games. (You must have been conflating CD-i with 3DO.) Wikipedia has more info about licensed but non-canon Zelda games for CD-i.

Re:Zelda for CD-i

[steveo777]

Yes, CD-i. Thank you for the trip down pain avenue. I must be masochistic, because I still want to try playing these. It stems back to having seen an infomercial (much akin to the Turbographix 16 infomercials) about this system. Whenever I saw an infomercial, I'd make a mental not to stay away from the product with the yelling man and the unnaturally stupid woman.

Revolution To DS (Lite)?

[aldheorte]

Now, if there was just a way to be able to download NES/SNES/Genesis games to the Revolution and flash them onto a DS Lite cartridge or however it's done, well, I'd buy a Revolution and DS Lite upon release. I know that NES and SNES emulators exist for the DS, so it's technically feasible, but it would be nice to have a seamless experience.

Retrogaming is cool

[Orion Blastar]

Gametap already does this for Windows based PCs with an Internet connection somewhat. There are also $10 to $35 video game controller units that play old Genesis, Atari, Colecovision, Intellivision, NES, etc games on them, showing that this is a good idea. None of them have tried to do almost a whole library of several classic consoles at the same time, or at least the best of a certain game console library.

Classics like Sonic the Hedgehog my son likes to play on my Sega Genesis system, and Rogue Squardon and Diddy Kong Racing on the Nintendo 64.

I hope that one can buy teach classic console game and save it on a hard drive to play while the system is offline, and this is not just an online only feature. I would hope that it is affordable as well, like 99 cents a game or something, or a low monthly fee for unlimited downloads or something.

Re:Retrogaming is cool

[Anonymous Coward]

But! With the small solid-state harddrive how will Nintendo offer all of these games from its entire library and all these systems??? It's simple, Nintendo is going to incorporate access to this back-catalog of games with their online network, ala Xbox-Live. Each game will be downloaded to the harddrive every time you want to play it. You will rent access rather than physically owning the game. There will be a small one-time fee for each game you want access too. If Nintendo does this right then it will be totally invisible to the user. You will never know that your game is downloading every-time you want to play it. Even downloading an N64 game is trivial, since most of them areless than 64 megabytes. If Nintendo made each system a peer-to-peer client it would multiply the available bandwidth exponentially. So rather than having to download each game from Nintendo servers, you might be able to download it cached off the harddrives of 100 people near to you also.

Because of this, the Revolution will be a must-own console, IMO. Anyone who's grown up with Nintendo, Sega, or the others will love playing those old classics on this console. It may even be possible for Dreamcast games to be playable, wouldn't that be awesome ;D

Re:Retrogaming is cool

[steveo777]

As I understand it, the Mem cards will be 512MB. That's enough for about eight N64 games, seeing as the bigger games were about 64MB each. The biggest SNES game I can recall was probably Super Street Fighter II at 32MB. And NES games rarely made 4MB.

You won't be able to fit a very large library on these (assuming you're going for N64/SNES games), so hopefully there will either be bigger cards or some sort of a mass storage device add-on or something.

Re:Retrogaming is cool

[mink]

I thought Tales of Phantasia was one of the biggies for the SNES, around 48Mbit (add Star Ocean, Street Fighter Alpha II and Yoshi's Island to the list)?

Re:Revolution?

[PitaBred]

Seriously, why does Disney insist on using Mickey as their mascot. They should like, get with the times.
Besides, the games are fun. That's all there really is to it. It's a somewhat familiar feel with the characters, but almost always with completely new gameplay (not just new levels, new things that happen, new stories, new interactions with the environment, all kinds of innovative things). Say what you want about the characters, but there's a REASON people tout Nintendo as being innovative. It's because they are.

Cheaper than Microsofts? No...

[babbling]

Dirt cheap compared to what Microsoft are charging? I don't think so...

But at the Game Developers Conference here on Tuesday, the rumor is that Microsoft plans on announcing Wednesday a developers kit that would make it possible for anyone to build games for the console, or for PCs, and that the kit will cost only about $100.

Re:Cheaper than Microsofts? No...

[kwayle]

you think for $100 your going to be getting a proper dev kit? One that allows for you to sell the things you make, hell even one that allows you to run code on a different 360? Full dev kits for the 360 are a hell of a lot more expensive.

Re:Cheaper than Microsofts? No...

[Anonymous Coward]

Uh, dude? Read what you just pasted.

the rumor is that Microsoft plans on announcing Wednesday a developers kit

Wednesday was yesterday. Unless you can find a news report about this actually having happened on wednesday, your rumor was wrong.

At any rate of course DirectX and XNA games will continue to be available to develop dirt cheap-- they're PC games!! You can develop them for free!! But just because the XBox 360 basically runs PC games does not make a PC development environment equal to an XBox 360 or Revolution development kit.

Re:Cheaper than Microsofts? No...

[Anonymous Coward]

My guess is the rumor came from GarageGames. They sell their Torque engine for $100 and one of their games is on XBox live. You can contact GG to buy their XBox version of the engine, but I don't think it would be for the indy license of $100.

Re:Cheaper than Microsofts? No...

[Anonymous Coward]

IIRC The GarageGames sdk for Xbox Live! is $10,000. I know because I was interested and it was significantly more than I anticipated and extremely disappointed.

TurboExpress SP

[tepples]

Buy a Game Boy Advance SP and a GBA flash cart, and you can run PCEAdvance, a TG16 emulatarr! for GBA. This will do nicely until Nintendo expands Revolution Live Arcade to include Revolution/DS connectivity.

Shot Selves In Foot A Little

[Digital Vomit]

It's too bad Nintendo was (is?) all Nazi about emulators a few years back. It's that very same crowd that's going to fall all over the Revolution. Unfortunately, they've created a lot of ill will in those who would soon become their target demographic because of their behavior. Hopefully their sales won't suffer too much because of their anti-emulation attitude, because I'd really like to see the Revolution succeed.

Re:Shot Selves In Foot A Little

[mouse_clicker]

No, that's not the same crowd Nintendo's targeting at all, not in the least- I don't see why so many people think the tech heads represent such a significant portion of the gaming community. They're marketing the virtual console to the same people they marketed the NES Classic series to, the nostalgic casual/non-gamers who perhaps played some games back in the NES/SNES days but not since.

And if the NES Classic series is any indication, the virtual console will probably turn Nintendo a profit on the Revolution alone.

-Moses

Re:Shot Selves In Foot A Little

[Knutsi]

Isn't the very fact that Nintendo will now make available it's SNES library for a charge the very same reason they where so "nazi" about people's downloading and running their stuff for free? The day SNES9x/ZSNES matured, Nintendo tried it and said "hell, our future consoles can also do this, and we can make a fortune off it!"

Apart from this, I must say the Revolution plan is brillian:
1. Make a controller that inspires radical game design for a wider audience
2. Make avilable for that audience games whichh they have fuzzy feelings for from childhood.
3. Tell the same crowd (now parents) the console is safe for kids

Of course they won't "win the console wars", but they will win a market previously sceptical and hard for Sony and Microsoft to gain grounds in. Nintendo were allways a smart company, they actually make money!

Re:Shot Selves In Foot A Little

[Anonymous Coward]

1. Make a controller that inspires radical game design for a wider audience
2. Make avilable for that audience games which they have fuzzy feelings for from childhood.
3. Tell the same crowd (now parents) the console is safe for kids

As someone who gets a warm fuzzy off of NES titles and is a parent, I can tell you that crowd #2 understands that you don't make a console safe for kids by not producing mature titles for it, you make it safe by not allowing your children play adult-themed games. It's the 'wider audience' that would be more likely to make that mistake.

Regardless, I haven't heared anything from Nintendo that indicates they plan to exclude mature titles from their line-up, as you seem to suggest. The Cube had some quality survival-horror fare released exclusively for it. Eternal darkness and RE4 come to mind. (yes, RE4 is on PS2 now. Exclusivity agreements do expire.) Nintendo systems aren't saturated with M rated titles, but they aren't exactly hard to find either.

Re:Shot Selves In Foot A Little

[tukkayoot]

You're talking about a niche within a niche here. I've been using emulators for a while, though I haven't being paying much attention to the scene lately, and it's so easy to find what you're looking for without ever touching a web site that hasn't been vocal about being hit with a cease and desist, so I've never heard of Nintendo itself specifically going after the makers of emulators or ROM distribution sites.

I do recall the IDSA (now the ESA) sending out a bunch of legal threats, but everyone's a member of the IDSA/ESA ... only the most diehard retrogamers who don't care at all about new games/systems would boycott an ESA member because of their actions, because it would mean never playing a new, non-indie game.

I'm not saying Nintendo specifically didn't spearhead some sort of gestapo raid on the emulation scene, I don't know ... I'm just saying that if I didn't know about Nintendo's supposed behavior and I'm something of a techie/enthusiast, then I highly doubt that a significant portion Nintendo's target audience has heard of their actions, let alone been swayed by those actions enough to refuse to buy a Revolution.

So you're really talking about a statistically insignificant group of people that Nintendo has supposedly alienated. Nintendo is trying to capture the broader audience with the Nintendo Revolution ... people who want to get the classic video game experience without downloading software, visiting emulation community sites or downloading torrents and buying special controller adapters for their PC.

Just on my own personal acquaintance I know several people who have played old NES/SNES/Genesis games who would love to do so again, and would do so if they had a simplified interface/device to do so, but when I try to explain them about emulation, they give me blank stares because the process is just a bit too arcane and involved.

Re:Shot Selves In Foot A Little

[LordVader717]

Oh yeah, I'm sure the crowd that played roms for free would have bought the revolution, but are so discusted by Nintendo saying "Piracy is bad" that they have decided to keep on emulating.

Re:Shot Selves In Foot A Little

[Knutsi]

They're not excluding anything, they are just carefull. Go look at the the www.nintendo.com website. If you enter an unrated game, you are asked "do you really want to do this?".

The new Nintendo Wi-Fi service is the same deal. It tries to ensure you cannot get in touch with bad people. So, suddenly online gaming isn't dangerous for kids any more.

So, when you're a carefull dad and buys you Revolution, you'll turn on the parental lock, and feel safe your kid is in good hands. After the little ones are in bed tho', you sneak out to play Residen Evil Zero. ;)

Erm...

[Vlad2.0]

While I agree that it's a very smart business move, I highly doubt that MS allowing homebrewed games would change the chances of their console being compromised.

Not only would making SDKs publicly available increase the amount of information about the system (and thus, increase the chances of someone "cracking" it), very, very, very few of their marketshare plays homebrew games. Just think about their XBox live service; I doubt homebrew would mesh well there - too much room for exploitation.

Of everyone I know with an xbox (about 10 people), 4 have modded theirs. None of them play any homebrew games (unless you count emulators, which I'd hardly call homebrewed). No one I know has expressed intrest of any homebrew games. Maybe homebrew games are the shit and I'm just living in totally ignorance of them, but I have a hard time imagining any homebrewers creating anything impressive enough to really catch peoples' eye. Feel free to disprove me on this count, though (if there's some great homebrew xbox games I'd like to give them a shot).

Re:Erm...

[networkBoy]

Xbomberbox is fun if you have three people.
I mostly use it to play movies through XBMC.
I put all my kids movies on the network and thus any room they are in their movies are available. Aside from being conveinent, it tends to keep those rather overpriced disney DVDs safe.

Oh, I also play my MP3s through it.
-nB

whoa!

[akhomerun]

holy crap, they gamecubed the DS and TurboGrafxed the revolution!

nintendo is pulling a whole lot of good shit out of their asses lately!

compared to the PS3 keynote...well there was just no contest!

Sony: "Uhh yeah the tech specs are awesome, 1080p, PSP is sweet, and there's another God of War game. Yeah. Buy Blu-Ray because it's the best LOL"

Nintendo: "Revolution is now SEVEN FUCKING CONSOLES IN ONE"

Re:whoa!

[akhomerun]

not to mention sony's "in game advertisement is an important part of the PS3's future"

haha screw that!

Re:whoa!

[ClamIAm]

nintendo is pulling a whole lot of good shit out of their asses lately!

Eww.

Re:whoa!

[Anonymous Coward]

Did you never play TMNT 2 for the NES?

Re:whoa!

[Anonymous Coward]

Not to mention that everyone in attendance at the keynote got a free copy of Brain Training on their way out!!! I got mine and love it, can't wait to take it back home and show the girlfriend and folks. Looking to pick up Brain Academy for the multiplayer focus.

Re:whoa!

[KDR_11k]

No, I played TMHT for the C64.

Oh... my god...

[TheNoxx]

Wait... my dreams have finally come true? Sega and Nintendo together at last?

Excuse me for a second... got something in my eye here... *sniff*

Re:Oh... my god...

[DigitlDud]

Actually Sega has been making games for Nintendo for quite some time now.

Re:Oh... my god...

[TheNoxx]

I know, they've been making games for lots of systems for a while but... to see all the old Genesis games come to Nintendo... it's like when the two arch-enemies team up to take on the new threat. Maybe, just maybe, it's a sign of things to come; first they bury the oldest rivalries, then team up to take on the evils of the video game industry.... (totally aware this won't happen, but it's been a dream of mine for goddamn forever.)

Re:Oh... my god...

[Headcase88]

Psh, it's my opinion that Sega is doing this for the money and for the money alone. Either Sony or Microsoft would have been smart to approach them; then they'd really have something to compete Nintendo with nostalgia-wise (Xbox's curent arcade not really doing it).

Then again, Nintendo hasn't boasted any real exclusivity of the Genesis console anyway. Sony/MS should be pursuing that if you ask me.

Re:Oh... my god...

[Firehed]

But back when Sega and Nintendo were the only main players, games' success was 100% dependant on the fun-factor; graphics didn't exist back then, relatively speaking. Now combine your classic ultra-fun games on a new console that'll be cheaper than the other two by a longshot with a company that has the longest (and arguably best) history of game production of the major players this time around and tack on the ultra-slim formfactor and you've got a winner. Honest to God, they've almost got me convinced to buy one, and I almost universally hate consoles nowadays. I just wonder whether the Game Genie will be ported in as well/cheater>. Unfortunately, the old cartridges are just a bit flaky now and the emulated versions just aren't nearly the same. Oh the days... back when A, B, and C were all jump, whichever suited your thumb best. Shame it's not that simple anymore, now it's O="buy primammo;buy hegrenade;buy vest;buy smokegrenade;buy flashbang;buy elites;buy fiveseven;buy secammo" and 15 other keys mapped to similarly rediculous strings (the rest of the 40-odd unaccounted-for in the circle of death being movement).

Re:Oh... my god...

[cornface]

But back when Sega and Nintendo were the only main players, games' success was 100% dependant on the fun-factor; graphics didn't exist back then, relatively speaking.

Were you even alive back then?

Sega's main selling point was always that they had better graphics than Nintendo, both for the SMS and the Genesis. The Genesis ad campaign that propelled it to massive market share was making fun of Nintendo for being simple and lame.

Re:Oh... my god...

[archen]

Heh, I chucked about that myself. Graphics were always a selling point, but as a kid who rented TONS of nintendo games, I can tell you that MOST nes/sega games weren't as mind blowingly fun as the nastalgic stories seem to recount.

Most of the time there were tons of badly rendered graphics that made it hard to tell what you were doing, along with extremely repedative 2d action, coupled again with absolutely terrible controls. Now sure there are quite a few gems over the lifetime of the system but the system was out a LONG time.

Feasable...

[Cyno01]

Theres a mystery slot at the bottom (if its not upright, otherwise left side) of the revolution, which could take a DS cartridge...

Re:Feasable...

[Anonymous Coward]

If I'm not mistaken, that "mystery slot" is for a standard SD memory card, which the Revolution can save downloaded games to. Their Play-Yan MP3 cartridge for the GBA also uses the SD format.

More likely, you'll be able to transfer smaller games to the DS using wireless download play, the same way you download a game to play multi on one cart. You can download NES games to the GBA from Animal Crossing pretty much the same way; you have run in sleep mode when not playing, or you lose the ROM. Its possible that games with a save state could also send the save back to the Rev to be stored. You won't be able to run very large games (such as anything for the GC) with this process, because the DS only has 4 megabytes of memory to store downloaded games. Sonic the Hedgehog (bundled with a Genesis emulator) would probably fit, though.

Nearly Complete Transcript

[Tringard]

Alice has a transcript of the keynote. Missing a couple of phrases and names, but otherwise appears complete if you want to read what Iwata actually said.

not to be picky but....

[Capt. Caneyebus]

Aren't all the games going to be new to the revolution? Sorry, I had to be a smart ass. Nintendo will put the smack down on Sony and MS because they get the bigger picture of gaming. There is more to gaming than pretty graphics.

Give us Military Madness!

[Anonymous Coward]

Genesis is a great addition to the lineup, don't get me wrong; I think it's wonderful, but yes--TG16 would close the case! Get the entire 16 bit era in one machine. The Golden Age of Gaming, all in one box.

Free Brain Age!

[HotFat]

One thing not mentioned anywhere is that a free copy of "Brain Age" for DS was given to everyone attending the keynote. Brain age has been huge in japan selling a few million units already. For those not in the know...brain age is basically mind and math games like sudoku where you get a 'brain age' rating at the end so you can compare brain power with your friends. It's meant to help decrease your brain age, make you think faster etc.

No I don't work for Nintendo, I just like getting free stuff :)

Poor, senile old SEGA...

[Anonymous Coward]

"Along with his message, he announced a new Zelda title on the DS, and the fact that Sega Genesis games will be on the Revolution, a part of the online library of games they're offering."

Oh, how the mighty have fallen...

I loved SEGA, but it's become a sick and dying dog. Their latest games have been almost all crap.

Now that their hardware is out, all their real money comes from reselling old games and old ideas. Their new stuff...well... *sigh*

He used 'differently'!

[Anonymous Coward]

Apple should take grammar lessons from this guy.

PSONE on Revolution

[vhogemann]

While I agree that Revolution may not have enougth power to propely emulate DreamCast games, there's still a chance that someone release a PSONE emulator for it!

Re:PSONE on Revolution

[Soul-Burn666]

Don't be so sure!
My computer is nearly 2 years old and wasn't state of the art then and yet Chankast runs Dreamcast games pretty well feature-wise and full speed at 1024x768.
It's likely more than capable.

Re:PSONE on Revolution

[poot_rootbeer]

there's still a chance that someone release a PSONE emulator for it!

Sony would get very unhappy about that. Remember Bleem!?

It's pretty much a combination of both styles

[technoextreme]

Looking at the trailer it seems that the view sometimes switches depending on the scenario. The one dungeon scene almost looks exactly like it would belong in A Link to the Past except it's been fleshed out. Then there are other parts of the video that look like Wind Waker.

The numbers in the video are....

[technoextreme]

the order in which the switches have to be hit to open up the dungeon. The next cutshot in the movie actually shows link opening up the door to that part of the map. It appears that you can scribble on your map to take notes on the dungeon. Look at what is written in the map. Numbers in one section, a giant word saying enemy, and a circle around the one enemy that tells link to stop. I have to say it's quite impressive looking and a cool feature.

buttons?

[carambola5]

What about the number of buttons? I presume that you would turn the controller on its side to play the old-style games, but there are only two buttons for the right hand. Maybe the other two buttons (A and B, as opposed to a and b) are easy enough to reach in the sideways position?

Seems like it would be an issue for SNES, N64 and GameCube games as well.

Re:buttons?

[grumbel]

You can plug a Gamecube Controller into the Revolution and there is also rumour about a thing called "shell" which will be a normal controller into which you plug the Revolution controller, searching for it on google will give you a few pictures on how it might look like, however Nintendo hasn't yet released official informations about that thing.

Re:buttons?

[sehryan]

http://media.revolution.ign.com/articles/697/69773 3/img_3480757.html

While the shell hasn't been released, you can tell by looking at the controller in the picture above that the guide slot is already there and ready, which implies the shell is ready. I would imagine that they will show the shell in action at E3.

And it will also allow for other attachments as well. Some fanboy mockups have included a steering wheel, a pistol, and a shot gun.

Re:buttons?

[IntergalacticWalrus]

Not to worry, I'm pretty sure the third party hardware manufacturers will see the great market potential for classic-looking controllers to play old games on the Revolution. Oh, and controller adapters too...

To Repeat a Post I made earlier:

[Cadallin]

Sony ain't got shit. PERIOD. Sony is in about neck deep right now.

Since it is looking dead certain that Nintendo will beat Sony to market, and there is at least a decent chance the Revolution is going to launch at $200, I see there being a very decent chance of many, many people making the following call "Hmmm, $200 Revolution, with Nintendo AND Sega back-catalogs! Sweet! But the PS3 has nice hardware.... hurk! $500, fuck that!! That'll be Mario and Sonic for me thanks."

They only things Sony really has are the Residient Evil Series (almost all of which have been re-released for the 'cube, making them Revolution compatible) and Final Fantasy, and I don't see anything at all stopping Square from doing an FFVII re-release on the Revolution. Nothing at all.

Re:To Repeat a Post I made earlier:

[cornface]

Except for everyone who has gotten burned by Nintendo's pathetic third party support over the last two generations of consoles. When you go into the store and see a massive wall of Playstation titles and a little cranny for Nintendo, that extra $200 for the console starts seeming less excessive.

Hopefully they'll correct that this time around, but I'm not holding my breath. I'll buy the stupid thing anyways, like always. Dammit!

Re:To Repeat a Post I made earlier:

[Anubis350]

While I'll admit I'll be one of them that's buying the Revolution over the PS3, remember, the PS3 will have the back-catalog of ps2 and ps games, and that's a shit-load of games too y'know...

Re:To Repeat a Post I made earlier:

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh, I don't know.. they've got the big fours;

Metal Gear Solid 4
Grand Theft Auto 4
Devil May Cry 4

Sure, they're all sequels (of sequels of sequels), but at least for me, those three games will probably be worth paying whatever sony wants to charge for their fancy console.

Re:To Repeat a Post I made earlier:

[Kirby-meister]

Massive third party support is nothing if that third party support churns out:

Generic GTA Ripoff 2: Cruise Control,
FPS Already on PC but with Worse Controls,
Dynasty Warriors Who Press Two Buttons for Three Hours,
Random Racing Game that is Totally 'Street' Dub Edition,
The Guy Game That Sucks But At Least It Isn't 'Kiddie' Because of Boobs,
and BMXXX Kiddie Games Suck You're Totally Mature Playing This Game Trying to Make a Dog Shit.

Re:To Repeat a Post I made earlier:

[Anonymous Coward]

And remember that a PS2, which most people already have, will gladly play that back-catalog.

Re:To Repeat a Post I made earlier:

[Cadallin]

Except that those games are by and large a big load of crap. Sony has no Icons. Sony gained popularity with the PS1 by making a cheap dev-kit and a console that was easy to develop for. This resulted in an Atari 2600-style situation, with a market flooded with poorly made garbage. Except that this time the garbage was "3D!" and people bought the hook. There are some gems in the backcatalog, but here's a suspicion I have:

Nobody likes Sony, I'm betting even the publishers don't. Nintendo has probably been shopping around to the publishers, offering lots of help, and CASH (which Nintendo can do, they have quite a warchest, in the Billions) to the various companies to get them to port their back-catalog to the Revolution, or to let Nintendo do it through emulation. They probably aren't just focusing on the likes of Sega and Square; they're probably going after Konami, Nippon Ichi, Atlas, and the rest as well.

Nintendo is managing this launch very, very well. First we get basic info at E3 last year, where they let Sony and Microsoft largely toot their horn, but as Sony's and Microsoft's hype engines died down, Nintendo has been letting out a steady stream of Snippets: Backwards compatibility with all Nintendo's consoles. Which got a good round of rumbling, and I know a LOT of people who were sold on just that. Now we get the knowledge that Sega's onboard too, there will be even more people excited now. I'm betting we see a steady stream of these from on, towards the November launch.

Re:To Repeat a Post I made earlier:

[cornface]

Yeah, okay. So ignore Jak & Daxter and the Ratchet & Clank games beating Mario's latest outings into a pulp for the last several years. And also ignore Metal Gear. And Shadow of the Colossus. And Katamari. And the actual GTA series. And Gran Turismo. And the huge number of other great games that come out at an astonishing rate.

Also ignore the horrors of Mario Party. And Mario Tennis. And crappy Sonic games. And Curious George. Oh look, it's True Crime GTA knockoff...for the Gamecube! And King Kong boring movie licensed port! And boring football port! And Army Men 87! Oooh, it's Judge Dredd! And stupid wrestling game!

The fact of the matter is that the percentage of crappy games on the Gamecube is equivalent to the percentage of crappy games on the Playstation 2. The only difference is that the PS2 has 30 times the number of games choose from. Are there more crappy games? Sure! But there are also more good ones. It doesn't mean that Pikmin 2 doesn't kick ass.

But if you'd like to look at things through Rose Colored Glasses Adventure 17, feel free.

Re:To Repeat a Post I made earlier:

[Kirby-meister]

Jak & Daxter, Rachet & Clank, Shadow of the Colossus, and Gran Turismo are either first or second party games.

You bring up third party games that suck on the Cube, yet True Crime, King Kong, football ports, Judge Dredd, Army Men, and wrestling games make up quite a bit of Sony's third party support. Was your point to show that Nintendo also has crappy third party support? My point was that third party support means nothing of it churns out shitty games, something you're argument seems to support, because you were using such titles to discredit the GC's third party lineup. Thanks.

"The fact of the matter is that the percentage of crappy games on the Gamecube is equivalent to the percentage of crappy games on the Playstation 2. The only difference is that the PS2 has 30 times the number of games choose from. Are there more crappy games? Sure! But there are also more good ones. It doesn't mean that Pikmin 2 doesn't kick ass."

You're stating it is a fact, but rather it is an opinion of your own. Let's not forget my original post only stated my belief that "third party support means nothing if [most of the games third parties churn out suck, or are cheap ripoffs of better games]." You seem to have taken that as an attack on your favorite system, and have responded with inaccurate statements (not knowing your first and second party games from your third party games) and supporting my claim by listing crappy third party support for the Cube, which leads to my main opinion: the Cube doesn't need "huge" third party support, so long as it receives its share of Viewtiful Joe and RE4 quality third party releases.

"Rose Colored Glasses Adventure 17" huh? I suggest you play "Know Your Gaming Industry 42"

Re:To Repeat a Post I made earlier:

[cornface]

If that's what makes you happy, run with it. Your tunnelvision is quite impressive, though.

Re:To Repeat a Post I made earlier:

[Kirby-meister]

Petty reply. It's a nice escape from valid points you can't argue with, and would rather not say are right, however :)

"When you can't attack the points, attack the person."

Sweet, but what about the controllers?

[cubicle_cowboy]

The only problem I can imagine with playing old games on a new system would be using the new controller, especially when your brain was trained on the older ones. I'm sure some enterprising hardware developer will make remakes of the classic NES|Master System|SNES|Genesis|* controllers for those who want the original experience, but will the games support them?

Personally, I'd buy a a few classic style controllers to relive the old days all on one system. Perhaps a few for each system for multiplayer games. And that creates further issues. What about games like Secret of Mana for the SNES that need 3 controllers (for the real experience) when the system only supported 2 by default? Will multi-tap support be built in?

Re:Sweet, but what about the controllers?

[JonXP]

Nintendo said in the past that there would be some kind of "Classic Controller Expansion". If this meant you could hook up the old controllers through some crazy dongle, or if they would release clones of the old controllers designed for the rev, they didn't say.

Re:Sweet, but what about the controllers?

[mrgreen4242]

How do you figure any of this? They've already announced the wireless wand controller will fit into a shell with GameCube style controls, which will make just about any game playable (it has enough buttons, although they are laid out differently). Plus, Nintendo being the the accessories whores they are will surely release classic controller shells for all the systems they sell games for; it only makes sense.

As for supporting only 2 controllers... it's been pretty well established (I mean I'm not even really following all the Rev news and even I have seen this) that the system will allow for 4 wireless controllers. Plus it has 4 GameCube controller ports on it as well.

So, ya, don't really know where you were going with all that.

Re:Sweet, but what about the controllers?

[Anonymous Coward]

i find that the gamecube controller (while being the best current generation controller) is awful for playing old games like Zelda2 and Prince of Persia. The four-way controller is much much less accurate than the older ones were. And the analog stick if a definite no-go for those games. I still have all my old controllers. I would have really liked to be able to lug those in my gamecube. (queue the replies with 'you can get plugs for that [[here]]) :)

Re:Sweet, but what about the controllers?

[danpsmith]

Right, because we all used the original controller when playing these games in emulators. Come on people, the success of the original games might have had something do with the controller, but that's definitely not the only reason they were popular. I played emulators for games multiple times using my keyboard, which is about as far from the original controller as you can get, and that worked just fine for my purposes.

Re:Sweet, but what about the controllers?

[cubicle_cowboy]

For fighting games particularly. I'd rather use the old combos on the original controllers.

I've tried those games on a keyboard and it sucks. I'd imagine it'd be just as rough on a GC controller or the new Revolution controller. My muscle memory still likes the old layouts.

Re:Sweet, but what about the controllers?

[cubicle_cowboy]

I know the Revolution will support 4 controllers, but the orignal SNES only really supported 2 unless you had the multi-tap. I was just wondering out loud how the new system will handle that.

I'm sure it's trivial, but I hope that if Ninentendo is going to support classic games that you can play them as they were originally intended. I've tried playing old games on emulators and the experience is very different.

Maybe I'm just being particular, but I don't think I'd want to play old games with the GC controller or the new wand controller. Like I mentioned in another post, old fighting games in particular scream to be played with the controller for which they were designed.

Re:Sweet, but what about the controllers?

[cornface]

I agree with you to some extent, especially for NES/SNES games because the SNES controller is essentially the same as modern gamepads. Some of the Genesis games are a pain to play with PS2 controller, though, due to the 3 in a line layout.

Re:Sweet, but what about the controllers?

[mrgreen4242]

"I know the Revolution will support 4 controllers, but the orignal SNES only really supported 2 unless you had the multi-tap. I was just wondering out loud how the new system will handle that."

???

Your wondering how it will handle having more standard controller slots than the original? Um, the first two will be players 1 and 2 and the other 2 won't be used, unless the game was multi-tap capable, in which case it will act like you connected the multi-tap for 4 players?

I don't understand what you are trying to wrap your mind around here, it seems really pretty simple.

"I'm sure it's trivial, but I hope that if Ninentendo is going to support classic games that you can play them as they were originally intended. I've tried playing old games on emulators and the experience is very different.

Maybe I'm just being particular, but I don't think I'd want to play old games with the GC controller or the new wand controller. Like I mentioned in another post, old fighting games in particular scream to be played with the controller for which they were designed."

Again, I'm operating under the assumption they will release optional shells for the want that are shaped and behave, more or less, like the controllers for the original systems. It would be a very Nintendo thing to do. They love accessories, and jump at any chance to sell you some.

Blazing Lazers

[MilenCent]

I never had any of the Turbografx systems, but I sort of wanted one, if only to play Blazing Lazers, one of the most kickass of Compile's venerable shmuppy legacy.

Sega did the approaching

[DavidHOzAu]

Psh, it's my opinion that Sega is doing this for the money and for the money alone.
That's called business, and it is also called "making money", "turning a profit", or "staying in the black". You can't complain about that.

Either Sony or Microsoft would have been smart to approach them; then they'd really have something to compete Nintendo with nostalgia-wise (Xbox's curent arcade not really doing it).
Actually, prior history suggests that Sega approached them:
* Sonic Mega Collection
* Sonic Mega Collection Plus
* Sonic Gems Collection
all of these are games that come with emulated games.

Also, Sonic Adventure DX had emulated games as unlockables.

There was also Sega Superstars, based on many previous Sega titles, but it hasn't stopped there. The latest Sonic title is actually http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonic_the_Hedgehog_(2 006_game)>this one, (to be on PS3, 360, and maybe Revolution,) although I haven't heard of any possibilities about any emulated games packaged with it.

Emulated games on the Revolution

[Anonymous Coward]

1. What will the pricing be for the NES, SNES, N64, and Sega Genesis games?
2. If I buy the games from the older consoles, will I have to rebuy those games when the Super Nintendo Revolution comes out 6 years later? Or are the games just being licensed/rented for a period of time?
3. Will there be a controller available which will make it easier to play games like street fighter 2 (FE,'CE,Hyper,Super,Super Turbo,Alpha 1,2,3) and MK Trilogy?

Re:Emulated games on the Revolution

[stevencbrown]

1- Don't know yet.

2- Yes.

3- No.

Re:Emulated games on the Revolution

[Whyte Panther]

Controller options will always be available, even if nothing is designed specifically for the Revolution, there are always Gamecube controllers. Then again, I'm not sure there was much of a market for fighting sticks for cube. There was Soul Calibur 2 though, some I'm sure SOMETHING was made.

Re:Emulated games on the Revolution

[toph42]

Correction:

1- Don't know yet.

2- Don't know yet.

3- Don't know yet.
 

Re:Emulated games on the Revolution

[cornface]

I got a nice arcade stick for Soul Calibur. It has connectors for PS2/Xbox/Gamecube. Works great.

More retro handheld games should be on the DS

[martinmarv]

I'm very happy about the direction Nintendo is going in, but think it would be just the coolest thing ever if they released a Nintendo DS cartridge of all Zelda games, or all Mario platform games for the Gameboy/Gameboy Colour. Or all Sonic Game Gear games.
Being able to play these games on the PS2/Xbox/Gamecube/Revolution is nice, but these games were meant to be played on the hand-helds, and the limitations (screen-size, controls) of the DS fit the games well. Currently your only option is to buy a Gameboy Advance. Then either hunt-down 2nd-hand copies of the Gameboy games (and put up with them sticking out the bottom), or go down the flash-cart route for the Sega games.

Re:More retro handheld games should be on the DS

[gameboyhippo]

I agree with you on handheld games should be available for the DS. But I also think that games from all 2D consoles should also be available on the DS. I would love to play games like Sonic & Knuckles on the road.

Re:Revolution?

[xtracto]

Yoshi's Cookies!

Hehe, just the other day I remembered that game for the Gameboy. It was a really nice game (puzzle like) for its time (1993). Of course it had Yoshi and Mario (as a cooker) but it was danm funny (and addictive).

I put it in my girlfriend's GBA Supercard and she liked it a lot =o)

And that's why 2006 was amazing...

[7Prime]

Back to basics...

"Good Night & Good Luck" anyone? Not just because it's black & white, but the movie really feels like a classic that could have been made 50 years ago... simple, elegant, with a lot of depth. Would have been picture of the year in 1959... don't know why it wasn't in 2006, but at least it got its dues.

Same could be said of "Capote".

But neither of these films ARE old films, they're not rehashing old techniques simply to making them feel classic, but use them in order to break new ground in ways that most modern films are not. I think the entertainment industry, as a whole, is beginning to feel the effects of over-complication in aesthetics. There seems to be a revolution afoot in the mainstream of exploring new territory with older, less technical, but more meaningful methods.

This really is an exciting time, and possibly the beginning of the film genre's first neo-classical era, in the history of its existance. Every art/entertainment medium has a neo-classical era (or two, or three) somewhere in its lifetime after it has reached a certain point of maturity. A "back to basics" movement that explores more regimented, and traditional approaches to production. For visual arts, the 17th century looked back to greek and roman procedures for a more mathmatically "precise" approach. Music saw its neo-classical rennaisance in the first few decades of the 20th century, with a return to the more formula-based approaches of the 18th century. Both these genres have seen many similar, smaller movements, though these are two very noticable eras. Film is now at its hundreth birthday, but we may very well be seeing it's "first" neo-classical era.

What about emulators?

[master_p]

If old games are to become available on newer consoles, it would mean that emulator users can no longer use the "the game is old, nobody sells it any more, so why shouldn't I play it in an emulator?" argument. Companies will go after emulator users, since they effectively pirate games that are on circulation (even if they are decades old).

Re:What about emulators?

[tuffy]

If old games are to become available on newer consoles, it would mean that emulator users can no longer use the "the game is old, nobody sells it any more, so why shouldn't I play it in an emulator?" argument. Companies will go after emulator users, since they effectively pirate games that are on circulation (even if they are decades old).

Many emulator users do, in fact, own the games they are emulating and have a legal right to play them on devices other than the console they were originally made for. In the not-too-distant future, TVs are likely to reach a point where I won't be able to hook my NES up to them anymore. When that happens, noncommercial emulation will be essential for keeping my entire NES library alive - and not just the games that are brought to the Revolution.

Re:What about emulators?

[master_p]

Indeed, but the majority of emulator users do not own these games.

Re:What about emulators?

[poot_rootbeer]

In the not-too-distant future, TVs are likely to reach a point where I won't be able to hook my NES up to them anymore.

Not directly -- but Radio Shack (should they still be in business) will still happily let you give them $40 for a box that takes your NES's RF signal and converts it into component or S-video so your new TV can accept it.

Re:What about emulators?

[Anonymous Coward]

Technically you're only completely in the legal if you dump the ROM yourself.

Yes!

[berenixium]

Heres to reinventing an era in the here and now - when games were games (not cash-dispensors for software companies), men were men and women were women (whatever that means).

The Bitmap is King! (and Queen!)

Downloading old Nintendo games - how much $ ??

[sherriw]

Does anyone know if Nintendo is going to charge for the downloads of old games? And are they going to charge a monthly fee to play their online games??

Re:Downloading old Nintendo games - how much $ ??

[Gr33nNight]

There have certainly been rumors to this. According to Nintendo they havent decided yet. Personally, Im thinking 99 cents for NES, $4.99 for SNES and $9.99 for N64. Nintendo also mentioned they may offer a monthly-subscription plan where as you pay $30/month and play whatever you want. Sounds good to me

Re:Downloading old Nintendo games - how much $ ??

[ajdowntown]

That has vague reminder to me of the old Sega Channel. Remember that? It was so cool. I'd go to this specific channel with my sega on, and it would give me a list of games that i could play. The only problem was I could not save a game and come back later to play it. But, as a young teenager when it came out, I thought it to be the best thing in the world, and I still do. I am surprised it is taking a company this long to emulate it...

The big N

[mangus_angus]

Just solidified any doubts I had about picking this thing up. I still have my old sega sitting ontop of my PS2 and X-box, so this is nothing but gold for me.

Re:Revolution?

[danpsmith]

The competitors keep cranking out the crap sequels of stuff nobody wanted in the first place. Maybe some people are interested in halo 3, I'm not, halo 2 wasn't even up to expectations. The truth is that mario, sonic, and zelda have sequels for reasons, they are actually wanted. I could give a shit less about jak or whatever loser substitute for a platformer character they are trying to push on the immitation systems this week, they always seem like second class citizens to the real kings of console games because the games aren't really that innovative to begin with and get lost in a fog of other recent platformer takeover series.

Thank God for nintendo

[Ginger Unicorn]

It amazes as well as delights me that nintendo are still able to make console gaming as exciting as it was in 1990.

If all we had to look forward to was PS3 and Xbox360 with their generic "midly sharper graphics" selling point i wouldn't even bother with the next generation of consoles until they were being sold off for £40 each. I only bought a ps2 because it was the only platform GTA was out on at the time, and i only got an xbox because i couldnt think of anyhting else i wanted for christmas a couple of years ago, and that is softmodded and used for emulators and streaming video from my PC anyway. Incidentally a softmodded xbox is a genuinely brilliant console.

pricing of online content

[Krystlih]

I hope that their pricing scheme really suits the gamer. I mean I wouldnt mind paying a monthly fee for unlimited access to these downloads. For example: $10/month unlimited access to all the old content (so far announced NES, SNES, Genesis, Turbo-Graphix16, and N64).

But if they arent going to allow a monthly fee subscription based service and charge per download I hope they use a model similar to iTunes. For example: $0.99 for NES games, $1.50-$2.50 for SNES/Genesis games, $2.50-$5.00 for N64 games. I hope the price of a game doesnt exceed $5.00, if it does it may get really expensive to own the classics that you desire.

Remember most people who REALLY are fanatics about those games want the original for nostalgic purposes, and are usually willing to pay a lot more. Casual players may not be willing to pay a lot for this type of service.

The gp2x

[Anonymous Coward]

The gp2x already has fullspeed genesis emulation,
pretty good SNES emulation, and turbografix
emulation (I haven't tried that yet)
It is around the same price as the rev,
and it has TV out.
But the gp2x runs linux, need I say more?

Let's not get TOO excited here

[IntergalacticWalrus]

Legal downloads of NES/SNES/N64/Genesis/TG16 games (and for a decent price, let's hope) is going to be cool and all but am I the only one who thinks there won't be much third-party games? Of all the really good games on the Nintendo and Sega systems, most of them are are first-party, but the rest (about half or them) are third-party. Do they have sufficient rights for those games too? I doubt it. Chances are they'll only get contracts from a few third-parties. I can imagine their catalog looking quite crippled without, say, Capcom or SquareEnix, or any other major third-party developper, which is probably going to happen. Especially SquareEnix, who has released a few titles for Nintendo systems lately but still keeps very close ties with Sony.

Oh and what about all those Rare games? Now that Rare is owned by Microsoft, does Nintendo actually owns the rights to Nintendo/Rare franchises like Donkey Kong Country, Killer Instinct, Goldeneye, Perfect Dark, etc? Okay DKC is very likely, but Perfect Dark isn't, considering the latest title was on the XBox 360...

Anyway, this sounds like a complete legal minefield.

Re:Let's not get TOO excited here

[Anonymous Coward]

"I can imagine their catalog looking quite crippled without, say, Capcom or SquareEnix, or any other major third-party developper, which is probably going to happen."

1000 games from the Genesis alone! That's not even a Nintendo system. That's hardly crippled by any measure.

"Especially SquareEnix, who has released a few titles for Nintendo systems lately but still keeps very close ties with Sony."

Don't underestimate them. Look at all the GBA and DS games that they've been working on in recent post-Yamauchi years: FF 1, 2, and 4 are already on GBA. 3 is being totally redone on DS to take advantage of all the DS features. FF 5 and 6 are due out for GBA in weeks. Sword of Mana (remake of previous GB game), FF Tactics Advance (sequel to PS game), and Kingdom Hearts Chain of Memories (sequel to PS2 game) are already out for GBA, with Children of Mana (brand new Mana sequel) being released for DS soon. FF Crystal Chronicles hit the GameCube, and sequels are coming for both DS and Revolution. They've even been contracted to do the next DS Mario basketball game for Nintendno! Not to mention the games that have not been released outside of Japan, along with others I'm sure I've missed. Modern-day Nintendo and SquareEnix have a very, very strong relationship that Sony can't just extinguish. Square & Enix titles on the Revolution Virtual Console are very likely, given this relationship. They may even give the go ahead to offer never-before translated volumes of their popular game series to be released via Virtual Console, which would be a genius thing to do for them (such as with the Dragon Quest, Front Mission, SaGa, and Mana series, all of which have modern-day fans that would love to play the titles they missed, translated to their native language for the first time).

"Oh and what about all those Rare games? Now that Rare is owned by Microsoft, does Nintendo actually owns the rights to Nintendo/Rare franchises like Donkey Kong Country, Killer Instinct, Goldeneye, Perfect Dark, etc? Okay DKC is very likely, but Perfect Dark isn't, considering the latest title was on the XBox 360..."

Rare retains the rights to all of the independently-developed properties they didn't sign away, sure. But MS and Rare both have a history of developing for Nintendo systems. And even post-MS Rare has developed games for GBA. This isn't to say that MS will let Rare sign up for the Virtual Console, but it certainly doesn't preclude the idea. They may do it just to hype the next volumes of those series, since they can't just emulate the old games for use on XBL arcade (necessitating full ports, which they mit consider not worth the effort).

Personally, I think a lot of companies are going to sign up to offer their older games on Revolution Virtual Console for two big reasons:

1. They will be able to leverage the popularity of the revolution to make money on their old properties for almost no additional cost, and

2. By actively selling these goods again, they gain legal strength in halting the illegal distribution of their copyrighted and trdemarked works on ROM sites, IF they so choose.

Heck, if I were a defunct game company who only owned older games, I'd let Nintendo sell them for a cut of the proceeds. This fact makes me hopeful that lots of companies are going to sign up, and I'll get to play games that I never had legal access to before.

Re:Revolution?

[9Nails]

Hello Revolution, goodbye outdoor life!

I've always thought that previous product should be included in some form with new releases. So you don't buy a title to a game but the game and it's story line as well. Since it takes about 2 years for games to come back with a new chapter, the first title is usually out of print and hard to find in 2nd hand stores unless it was very popular. I'm guessing that this Revolution idea is exactly what I'm looking for.

I think the virtual console is an excellent idea. And I seriously can't wait to play some old NEC and Hudson Soft titles from the TurboGrafx again. MotoRoader and Bomberman '93 will rock if they can bring along the full 5 player support. I don't think any other game made today has been as fun as 5 player Bomberman. The Genisis also had some great games too, and I look forward to those.

I can't believe no-one has mentioned this

[TimboJones]

The biggest portion of this talk was dedicated to Nintendo's Brain Training series. The three games combined have sold over 5 million units in Japan. Iwata described the process of getting the game to market; the most important part initially was getting people to play it. The game's popularity spread largely through word of mouth.

So in a brilliant marketing ploy, Iwata marked the release of the English-translated Brain Age with a free copy for everyone in attendance at this keynote. Not only does he get a seed audience of game devs, but some subset of attendees (like me) immediately ran to the game store to buy a DS. I heard the EB employees mention that they received a new shipment immediately after the keynote.

I've been curious about this game for a while, and frustrated that it was only available in Japanese. Nintendo/CMP hands me a free copy, and there's one more DS unit sold.

Re:I can't believe no-one has mentioned this

[Anonymous Coward]

That same EB sold out of all of their DS systems and all of their copies of Metroid Prime Hunters that day, BTW.

Re:I can't believe no-one has mentioned this

[TimboJones]

Hearing that makes my later hunger pangs over the skipped lunch all worthwhile. Thank you!