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Microsoft Launches Linux Labs Website
mjdroner writes "ZDNet is reporting that Microsoft is launching a website to 'share the activities of its internal Linux laboratories.' Microsoft says its goal is to foster communication with those who use open-source. The article also mentions that Microsoft runs a 300-server Linux installation to test open-source products." From the article: "Customers will be able to submit requests to Microsoft employees. For example, a person could ask how to best test the use of Linux desktops working with Microsoft's directory software.
In addition, Port 25 will do video interviews with Microsoft employees with experience in the open-source or Unix world, Hilf said."
My biggest question to MS regarding their interaction with Linux/*NIX would be why the hell windows XP SP1 broke my Samba PDC!! Before SP1 I was able to load roaming profiles without any problems, I applied SP1 and it all fell apart.
Microsoft seems willing to help you get your Linux workstation running against their PDC but are unwilling to reverse and allow their desktops to run against a Unix PDC.
MS has always seemed to break interaction with samba at every opportunity, I suspect this is completely intentional, especially considering their server products (that include the PDC functionality) is their flagship productline.
GeekServ Unix Consulting Services (http://www.geekserv.com)
I'm serious.
liqbase
Whatever Ghandi said...
in other news: hell just froze over.
We all know what this is. They've more or less claimed it as a prime mantra behind their business logic. Embrace and "Extend". The Embracing has started, but that Extension is going to be considerably less fun.
Do not confuse "Freedom of Choice" with "Free Will".
The U.S. Airforce once had some of their practice squadrons use Russian tactics and made 'em speak Russian and had 'em briefed with a Soviet flag in the background. This helped the regular pilots practice "against the enemy".
I wonder if this is sort of the same concept going on here.
For all of these years M$ has tried to Buy, steal or distroy anything to do with Linux, Then why do they want to be so nice to anyone dealing with Linux, Be afraid.
Answer: Thank you for choosing Microsoft(TM) Software. We have studied this problem and have determined to best use Linux desktops with Microsoft's Active Directory(SM) first format the machines and install Windows(TM) XP Professional(SM)...
Well, to me it was pretty obvious that Microsoft runs Linux machines. How can they test their competition if they don't? I expect that they also have HP machines with HP-UX, Sun, FreeBSD, NetBSD, OpenBSD, and Apple machines. It's just good business sense to know what the competition is doing. I'd be disappointed if they didn't.
Oh, OpenBSD also forms the base of Services for UNIX, so that'd be a shock if they didn't have at least some OpenBSD servers.
Now, Microsoft writing about it, that's kinda neat.
God save our Queen, and Heaven bless The Maple Leaf Forever!
What's the best way to migrate off of Windows and onto Linux?
Since the summary did not provideth, here's a link to the actual site: http://port25.technet.com/
Can someone tell me we they chose that name? Yes, I know that port 25 is used for SMTP.
Hello dear friend,
While this message my come as a surprise to you, I have spent extensive time trying to port MS Windows applications to Linux. After my company (Loki Software) went bankrupt, the CEO mistakingly transferred $100m (One Hundred Million US Dollars) to my Nigerian bank account and I am looking for a partner in transferring this money back to the United States. In exchange for this service....Here's to losing my Karma Bonus again....
Is it possible that MS could document the protocol, then we wouldn't have this problem?
I dunno. Isn't this kind of like Stalin asking for input on the democratic process:
Stalin: Hey guys... I know I've been kind of totalitarian in the past, but... Um... Let's foster some thoughts about that democracy thing we keep hearing about over in the States.
KGB Adivsor: I hear they don't have secret arrests over there...
Stalin: Ok. Thats a start... Anything else?
Army Commisar: They don't have secret laws or show trials.
Stalin: I seeee....
Politburo Advisor: Oh... And they watch funny shows on TV and actually own their own homes and cars and mow their lawns and have these things called elections so that everyone can have their input into the process... Oh and almost forgot there is the...
Stalin: *cuts advisor off* Ok. I think that is enough fostering for a very long time. Lets get back on the subject of 'summary executions'. You know guys, I was thinking maybe we could double our efficiency if we outsource to the Chinese.
"I am the king of the Romans, and am superior to rules of grammar!"
-Sigismund, Holy Roman Emperor (1368-1437)
First Apple lets people install Windows then Microsoft lets its own people install Linux.
Whats next ?
Balmer takes an anger management course and Steve Jobs changes his appearence ?
Microsoft Linux Virus Labs
MS admits that staff inspect and use open source.
How do they ensure that none of that source doesn't leak into MS products?
It would be interesting to discover the facts, we've shown you ours, how about you show us yours?
Have my last five days been spent in a time warp?
It's called an elephant's trunk whereas it is in fact, an elephant's nose, a nose by any other name would smell as sweet
{anti-microsoft rhetoric ON}
What's to stop Microsoft from receiving a request then patenting it and stiffling all future OSS development for your submission?
On the covers, it sounds like Microsoft is opening their arms to open-source development - which is what the OSS community has been wanting for years - but, under the covers, what's to prevent Microsoft from garnering too much control of any given project?
This move isn't to gain the respect of the IT community, it's a ploy aimed directly at removing the ever-increasing market share that GNU/Linux has been gaining. Every Linux installation removes the Microsoft Tax Revenue Stream from Microsoft's coffers and that is a threat to them.
Until you see a Microsoft release of a GNU/Linux distro, don't expect Microsoft to support Linux too earnestly. This is just another move by Microsoft geared to directly affect GNU/Linux installations by those installations being replaced with Microsoft server OSs.
{anti-microsoft rhetoric OFF}
The Prince of Darkness (TM) as set up a new site called "Port 666" where residents of Hel will discuss their experiences with that Other guy. As a quote from the PoD himself, "We'd really just like to help the community out there understand the implications of the decesions they make." More on this later...
"The Lion and the Lamb shall lie down together, but the lamb won't get much sleep."
Give a man a fish and you have fed him for today. Teach a man to fish, and he'll say "WHERE'S MY FISH, YOU IDIOT?"
Hmmm :) Isn't this how revolutionaries bring down governments - from the inside?
Get your own free personal location tracker
...Microsoft urges UK PC vendors to not sell PC's without an OS, since this is a missed opportunity to market their software and services. They also claim that so called naked PCs are often used to install pirated copies of Microsoft software.
Note that they do not specifically mention that this OS is Windows, but I think it is implied between the lines. It is also common knowledge that BSA counts systems sold without a commercial OS as using a pirated OS, which means that computers running Linux or other F/OSS OS'es are included in their piracy statistics.
because hell has just frozen over
Officially: "No comments"
Is this the same malware publisher that called linux "a cancer"? Are MS going to provide a version of their malOS that runs under Xen, so we can adequately sandbox it? Are we finally going to be able to run our Windows business apps without tainting the underlying OS with "trusted" (ie: binary) libs?
No? Thought not!
It is so obvious that Bill Gates is doing this just to cover up his efforts to create a virus to destroy the laptops of children in third world countries. He has NEVER donated to charity and KILLED Paul Allen.
My biggest microsoft gripe is that I have a heckuva time running apache stuff on windows with all the modules that I enjoy on Linux. There are MS articles (decent articles too) willing to help if I'm running Linux, but I want Apache on Windows. I want to have every concievable server technology from ASP.NET to Subversion to Python on one machine (cause I can), and I want it to be easy to authenticate against my domain (mod_sspi is nice, but sometimes sucks). I want Front Page Server Extensions like I have on Linux!
I know I'm not the only one, but this is one of the least supported webserver+os combos out there. Xampp is totally only half of what I want.
As long as they follow the GPL rules (which they legaly must) I dont see the problem.
200GB/2TB $7.95 Coupon: SAVE90DOLLAR
As large as Microsoft is, they can't totally control the computing choices of all of the businesses and governments in the world.
As much as marketing is importing in the consumer field, I think aggressive advertising is not taken as favorably in the business world. Many large businesses and organizations have chosen to use Linux on various servers, and Microsoft has to acknowledge this, especially if they want to keep their core desktop business.
For example, say you are a large university and you keep thousands of students and staff members' e-Mail on a Linux computer (or computers), and you have labs full of desktops that students use to access it. Say the IT department at this university calls Microsoft up with a question about some minor problem this is causing. Microsoft tech support can't really say "oh, just format that closet full of mail servers and put Windows on them!" They might be able to suggest such a thing in advertising, but they know that if they try it with corporate professionals, they are just going to be laughed at.
Microsoft needs to adjust itself to the decisions corporations, governments, universities and the like are making. It is as simple as that.
Hopefully I didn't put any [] around my words.
That's called a coup.
Hmmm. An open source coup at MicroSoft.
I like it.
Let's get working on this kids.
A blog about stuff.
Here is the real link: http://www.mslinux.org/
...and your enemies even closer!
What this world is coming to - is for you and me to decide.
Yoga Tutor: OK, now put your arms in front of you. Now slowly join your hands making a circle, and breathe out.
Breathe out....
Now extend your arms and breathe in.
Breathe out...
Breathe in...
Join your arms again. Embrace...
Now extend your arms and breathe in. "Extend".
Keep doing it guys...
Embrace...
Extend...
Embrace...
Extend...
Well done! See you next week!
Why is the first thing that went through my mind "Ok, how're they going to use it against Linux?"? Maybe because it's always been like this so far?
.net. Yes, there's Mono, but MS has the advantage of setting the standard. If they provide a Linux version of the next .net version, Mono will have a rather hard time holding a foot in that market. The framework is free anyway (has to be, who'd buy it?), so MS isn't even losing anything.
I pondered, and so far the only explanation is their usual "embrace and extend" practice. Take a standard, implement it, then extend with some "extra features" nobody else supports, hope that devs jump the wagon and make use of those "features" until customers have to use their flavor or else something doesn't work.
It worked before in the Browser War, I'd guess it's a tactic that could work again.
Now, how?
My guess goes towards
After a few years, Mono will vanish. And then MS can start pulling resources from the Linux version, making it less stable, making it slower (unless it's neither stable nor fast from the beginning). Yes, that takes time. But MS is in no hurry.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Given they plan on having Linux servers, at least FreeBSD won't have to worry about Microsoft efforts to 'assure interoperability'.
Like dealing with some strange group of outcasts eh?
Ahem. Maybe we are, but we won't contact you very often.
Hurts our IQ.
Hurts our karma.
I'm guessing this is mostly a "know thy enemy" kind of thing; the more they learn and explore about Linux, they more they can try to poke holes in it or create F.U.D.. I'm guessing the rewards would be great for someone within MS who can come up with fundamental low-level areas where they can say Linux falls down as compared to XP (whether they are actual, or not).
Love many, trust a few, do harm to none.
At least, this makes it seem like they do: "The lab's software is even more diverse, with some 15 versions of UNIX and 50 distributions of Linux--including many lesser-known ones like Asianux, CentOS and NetBSD." http://port25.technet.com/archive/2006/03/31/14.as px
Looks like there are already a few comments there about it though.
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Let's just hope that Microsoft's port25 website remains Open so EVERYONE can see what they're up to.
OK, I will repeat this once again...
I have said this a lot on Slashdot, and usually it gets dismissed, but I will restate it.
Know your competition and DO NOT under estimate Microsoft.
This just shows that at least they 'get' this concept of knowing their competition. This also would demonstrate that Redmond is not blind to the advances in the Open Source world.
Not only are the using and learning from it, but all it would take is a bit of popularity to see a Linux subsystem for NT, like the already MS *nix subsystem shipping free for NT.
I wonder what its like to be a linux guy working at MS. I mean, they gotta be a pretty small minority in Redmond. Do people stare at them in the cafeteria? Do people tell jokes about them behind thier backs? Do they find thier cars been keyed at the end of the day?
First they ignore you....
Then they laugh at you...
Then they fight you...
Then they assimilate you...
Errr..?
Where to go when you want to learn more about Linux - http://www.microsoft.com/linux.asp
Prove it.
Ah but everyone... here's the catch...
OPEN SOURCE CANNOT BE EXTENDED. At least not the way Microsoft wants it to be.
Why? Because it's based on open collaboration and open standards. It's a collective which cannot be controlled. What happens if Microsoft tries to control OSS? Simple. You fork it. What happens when Microsoft tries to find a way to exclusivly make money off of OSS? Simple. You make a free (beer, speech) alternative and put all the documentation on-line. All of it.
You see, Open Source cannot be killed. That's the beauty of the whole concept. Cut off one head and another grows... and I mean it in a good sense.
HONEYPOT
--
make install -not war
And yet nobody has yet said:
"Finally! The ease of linux combined with the security of Windows!"
Really guys we're slipping here.
The U.S. really needs an English to Wisdom dictionary.
Is this microsoft's attempt to cuddle up to the flaming homosexual community? After all; linux is STILL for fags.
Sun Tsu wrote, "Thus it is said that the one who knows the enemy and knows himself will not be endangered in a hundred engagements. One who does not know the enemy but knows himself will sometimes be victorious, sometimes meet with defeat. One who knows neither the enemy nor himself will invariable be defeated in every engagement."
Later, it'll FIZZ over...
Maybe ms is opening this stuff up more because many companies and even governments (foreign and domestic rightfully) are giving them the middle finger or outright telling microsoft (lower-casing/deprecation of ms' name iintentional/perpetual with me):
"*UCK you ms and the lame-assed horse you rode in on!"
Hmmm... image word: "infamous"
Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
First "pink slashdot" and "OMG Ponies!!!", then bootcamp, and now "Microsoft Launches Linux Labs Website"?!? Isn't april fool's gonna end some day!?!?
"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win."
~ Mahatma Gandhi
OSS was ignored, it was laughed at now MS is truly fighting.
As the adage goes.. keep your friends close, keep your enemies closer.
Anonymous Coward because I can.
LMFAO
apt-get assimilate
(resistance is futile)
Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony.
My post to the Yahoo Finance boards
.Net and asp projects that no one uses. Whereas the projects on OSDN already drive the web, literally.
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/mb?s=LNUX
Looking at this from an economical standpoint.
Yes.... it is probably a trap.
Okay guys, before you freak out learn what the difference between LNUX, and Linux is.
http://news.zdnet.com/2100-9595_22-6058196.html
That being said there is a few things to note here that are long term going to be.... "odd"
"an effort to sample feedback from customers who combine Microsoft and open-source software."
They just described a large chunk of OSDN (a LNUX asset), who are, however, rabidly loyal to OSDN and often very anti-MS, even the ones who use windows. If MS wants to avoid drawing a perpetual line in the sand, and quite frankly, having its open source ass kicked by a bunch of weekend OSDN hackers and geeks, then it will need to improve relations.
Now, improving relations can be as easy as letting off some pressure from the OS community, or just trying to make a full scale bridge alliance.
Trust me, right now if MS goes headstrong solo and stays that way you will end up with nothing but an MS network of broken ass open source
"The software giant--and fierce Linux foe--runs a 300-server Linux installation at its Redmond, Wash., headquarters to do competitive analysis and test how open-source products, including Linux, work with Microsoft software."
Now this brings me to expansions for Windows Vista. To increase Linux usability years ago Wine was created, as was Windows. Could this be a clue that MS is doing the same reverse engineering to allow Linux aps and code to run on future microsoft operating systems?
Would mean, once again, OSDN (LNUX) growth and profit.
"However, the company has made efforts to make its software work better with open source. Hilf said Microsoft's product groups use the Linux labs to test how well upcoming Microsoft software, such as Windows Vista, will work with Linux and other open-source wares."
That just backed up that theory.
MS is still very against linux, and has been trying other things, such as the godaddy domain parking switch, to look better. However, this is showing a lack of momentum in the offensive fight and more of a mutually benificial move to a truce, which would increase the abilities of windows users to obtain OS solutions, and would increase the exposure of OS solutions to windows only users.
Remember geeks
OSDN = LNUX != LINUX
Hope I turn out to be long term right about this one. I just wish I had a real job and could afford more.
YouStockIt - Education through Unorthodox Methods
Like in that movie, I can visualize badly cloned, mutant penguins in that lab, suffering and asking for death. Someone must stop Microsoft to do those evil experiments.
Embrace...
Extend...
SteveB shouts: Stop it! I can't stand this any longer! I have to fucking kill somebody! Why don't they have any chairs in here?
thegodmovie.com - watch it
MS Linux support Operator: Thanks for calling Microsoft linux support, how can I help you? .. why? Do I need one?
Poor Newbie Linux user: I'm having trouble connecting Evolution to our Exchange server.
MSLSO: Ah, that's a documented issue . . . see our linux version of the KB, KL-LNX666 . . . I'll run through the fix with you . . . first do you have a sledge hammer?
PNLU: Uh, no .
MSLSO: Yes, you will, we'll ship one out to you free of charge!
PNLU: Wow thanks! I can't bel . . . hold on, someones at the door, I'll be right back . . . . . . ZOMG, that was a courier with my sledge hammer! That was fast!
MSLSO: We're dedicated to "fixing" all Linux compatability issues!
PNLU: How did you know my address?
MSLSO: We'll you're running dual boot with XP, and it forwarded all your details to us to help server you better!
PNLU: OK . . . so what do I do?
MSLSO: Well, take the sledge hammer, hold it up high in the air, and smash it down on your Linux box.
PNLU: OK, how will I know if I've done it right?
MSLSO: Keep doing it untill all the sparcs and sound stop coming out of the box, it you hear a sound like breaking glass thats a good sign, that's your hard disk.
PNLU: Ok, hold on . . .
SMASH!
BANG!
KZZZZZZ!
SMASH!
FSHZZzzzzzz.z.z.z.z......
PNLU: OK, I've done what you instructred me, now my machine won't boot at all!
MSLSO: Ah, well you know, this wouldn't have happened if you used Windows! That's Geniune Microsoft advantage!
In Soviet Russia, Air Force acts like YOU!
Fuck off and die to that.
Or better yet, just use Firefox. Web browsers are supposed to rely on standards, and they're much more useful if they're cross-platform. If you agree with this, then there's really no need to roll your own. There's a great free one that you are also free to include with Windows. And then websites will *really work* on all the desktop platforms.
Seriously, the browser is no longer your 'big threat'. Even if applications are moving to the web, your control of the browser hasn't reversed that trend. Anyway, there's ample evidence that Windows lock-in is as prevalent as ever. So having Windows play nicely on the web (meaning 'allowing' everyone else to play there too) really won't hurt Microsoft (much) and could possibly win back a lot of good will.
So, really. Switch to Firefox (or Gecko with a wrapper).
No thanks.
Well, I listen to 666 just for the hell of it...
Click here or here.
Know your enemy before you fight them.....
This is a classic marketing ploy. Pretend to be "concerned" about the needs of a competing product. In actuality, they are attempting to "re-educate" you. Oh, you have a question about why something doesn't work with Windows? "Well such and such won't work with us. It is best to just use Windows."
True, they aren't going to be that obvious. But the attempt here is to see the concerns of users of a competitors product and best understand how to meet those needs through their own product. Don't think for one second that MS is actually looking for ways to make their products work better with Linux. They are looking for what doesn't work and see if they can turn that into a compelling reason to stay with MS based products.
Since I manage an ISP among other duties, it would be like me offering advice to AOL users, with that advice always boiling down to AOL sucks, use my product which is better. Sure, I can throw in some technical jargon to make it sound legitimate, but it is still just a sales pitch.
Don't be fooled.
So what host name will we be telnetting to to receive the animated ansi text video?
First they launched their crap 'virtual server 2005v2' for free and and now they seem to have brainwashed some communists... big deal
no not scared at all, they're losing it.
[ No prescription needed ]
Leave in the name of Jesus!
:Witness my hand and seal:Notary Public: X
By the power of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit: thou shalt not inhabit this Vessel; MICROSOFT!
[constantine]
You are in violation of every demonic congregation code and will now be deported back to Hel.
[/constantine]
Before We, the Alpha Troll did swear under God that the above is true, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, before his peers, after making myself known and swearing the facts as true, did subscribe these commands on this day; Done this sixth Day of the fourth Month, in the Year of our Lord 2006.
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My what a big budget you have, Microsoft!
The more to buy you toys that the GPL can't build or bring.
My what a big belly you have, Microsoft!
The more to digest the more insoluble wares we buy for sake of name and merit to strue their character.
My what a big dancing monkey you have, Microsoft!
The more to hurl lies and feces like a sniveling child.
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...is being barely rewritten and stuck inside some of MS closed source? Isn't this a double standard? Won't that "taint" those MS devs even looking at it? Isn't that what the closed source guys and legal folks say, that open source guys shouldn't even look at closed source stuff if they are writing similar function code, else the naughty fairy will get them? If they "forget" where they get the code snippets and ideas, and distribute without whatever open source license, shouldn't that be illegal? Who is auditing them, the business software alliance? This is an "honor" system with the closed source guys apparently.... Or are they following the rules, and only some devs look at the code, then they "describe" to some other devs what they kinda sorta might be looking at, the regular whiteroom approach? Who's checking those people anyway?
Perhaps a port 25 person might want to give a shot to a reply here....
Im not sure if you have looked at that site, but its just typical MS propoganda.
s px
One article http://port25.technet.com/archive/2006/03/31/13.a
is just 'look at how awesome SMS 2003 is, it can manage UNIX/Linux'
Nice work MS.
Their "Port 25" website is in fact not accessable via port 25 at all. On a hunch I tried port 80 and some kind of web site about port 25 came up. This is apparently another embrace and extend type of thing, where port 25 is now accessable only via port 80 and god knows where they've extended port 80 to or what's actually running on port 25.
-Lod
"... Microsoft competes against open-source products ..."
Implied, of course, by this statement is
An alternative wording could have been Open-source products compete against Microsoft in many areas ..., but this would have conveyed the opposite meaning.
If this reflects anything at all, it's just the impression of the author of that article... or just my impression of the article.
I am a Web developer and programmer who abandoned Microsoft products years ago in favor of open-source alternatives. I have purposefully allowed my MS-related skills and knowledge to weaken.
This little thing puts a smile on my face. -- Ghodmode
I tagged this story
embraceextendextinguish eee
If you find them meaningful use them too
Their are going to break interoperability with every other linux distro and then release MS-UX which is the only supported Linux to operate with windows.
Scary.
but remember, you must think in Russian.
I remember back about 5 years or so ago when Microsoft pulled all Samba tech support documents from their Support knowledgebase... luckily, I had printouts already. We all assumed the removal was due to increasing utilization of Samba, to the detriment of MS's PDCs, etc.
www.TakeArms.com
I just find it funnny someone tagged this post "unholy". Congradulations to you!
Linux Labs website YOU!
It's funny because the world has now gone officially mad.
:)
Nice 'unholy' tag, it's the only thing that makes sense today.
you will see Mr. Bill giving direction to a frenetic ape...er I mean Stevie Ballmer... to pull the rope on the snowbag...
you just think Hell is freezing over... just like you think MSFT is interested in interoperability...
I work in theatre... I can smell theatrics...
down the road... there will be alot of lab "we learned this" presentations that are followed by strategic decisions to go in exactly the opposite direction. Some of the people in the lab might actually get frustrated and say "Why didn't you use the information we learned, it makes it all work better". Naive sods...
It is just another tool for them to figure new ways to fsck things up.
After visiting the Port 25 web site, I stepped outside. There are geese flying backwards, pigs roosting in the trees, the sun did indeed rise in the west, and the sky is really green. I think I'll go home and fix a stiff drink .....
Only old people go to the Linux Labs website. And only after lunch on Sundays (before their nap).
How many beans make five, anyhow ?
I'd just like to thank my brother for being such a nice guy.
Officially: "No comments"