Netflix vs. Blockbuster Revisited

Thomas Hawk writes "Exactly one year ago at thomashawk.com Davis Freeberg debated Wall Street analyst Michael Pachter regarding the future of the online DVD rental world. Freeberg maintained that Netflix was the clear and obvious choice for a winner while Pachter predicted that in the next 12 months Netflix would significantly underperform Blockbuster. Now another look one year later at the competitive landscape in the DVD market. Pachter is nice enough to continue the conversation and even admits in hindsight that he made a mistake regarding his prediction on Netflix vs. Blockbuster for the year past -- but Pachter still maintains that Blockbuster has the upper hand over Netflix in the coming year ahead. Freeberg, of course, thinks he's wrong once again and that Netflix will continue to dominate as the leader of this market. "

Comments

I want what comes next

[BenEnglishAtHome]

The biggest problem with Netflix is time. Like most folks, I figured to sign up, watch movies quickly, and really get my moneys worth. It doesn't work out that way. Just because "Teenage Exorcist" is waiting in my mailbox when I get home doesn't mean that I'm going to feel like watching it tonite. Recently, I've gone through nearly three busy weeks when I haven't had time and haven't been in the mood to watch a movie. At that point, my subscription isn't very cost-effective.

I'll keep subscribing for now, but I may just be one more watching-mood-drought away from cancellation. What would really keep me as a customer is someone who could offer high quality and fast downloads for a buck or two. Then I could buy on a whim and get exactly what I'm in the mood for instead of picking from among the three Netflix envelopes on the kitchen table that just happened to be fairly close to the top of my queue but aren't *precisely* what I want tonite.

Re:I want what comes next

[boxlight]

Just because "Teenage Exorcist" is waiting in my mailbox when I get home doesn't mean that I'm going to feel like watching it tonite.

I think you're doing it wrong. "Netflixers" I know do it like this -- get the DVD in the mail, copy it to your PC with something like DVDShrink, send the DVD back right away so you get the next item in your queue sooner.

Then later when you feel like watching the movie, burn it to a DVD+/-RW, watch it, then delete the file off your computer.

This may be walking the tightrope of "fair usage", but that's the reality of how people I know are using this sort of service.

boxlight

Re:I want what comes next

[jandrese]

Good lord, how many movies are they watching? I have netflix too, but I just use the DVDs like the parent and I still find I rarely go through more than 5 or 6 a month.

Besides, if you do the mass rip/burn thing, eventually Netflix starts to throttle your queue since it is unprofitable for them to process more than ~20 movies a month for a single account.

Re:I want what comes next

[grogdamighty]

I've experienced similar periods where the DVDs you have just don't seem appealing and you don't really have the time... and suddenly you've had them for two weeks. Couple this with the throttling that Netflix does (I mail two DVDs back and mysteriously there's a 4 day difference between when they receive them?), and I'm considering quitting as well. The main problem is that I chose Netflix as a cable-replacement option: pay 1/3 as much as cable so my wife and I can get watch seasons of great TV shows or good movies rather than whatever crap is on at the time. If I can't get what I want when I want it, there's really no point to keeping it.

Here's hoping for a well-thought out download system.

Re:I want what comes next

[MBCook]

I enjoyed Netflix for a little while before I ran into the same problem.

But I've found a solution.

TV.

Most of my rentals from Netflix are TV shows (often that don't air). I tend to get one movie for every three TV discs I rent. By the time that movie disc gets to my house, I'm in a movie mood (because I haven't seen one) or I can just hold it until I am. I've watched Neon Genesis Evangelion this way (this was years ago before it was aired on Cartoon Network), Red Dwarf, Dual: Parallel Universe Saga, Magical Shopping Arcade Abenobashi, Bubblegum Crisis, Stargate SG-1, Read or Die the TV Series, and Farscape. Plus I've got more in the queue.

I would have canceled a long time ago (after watching the obscure movies that Blockbuster doesn't carry in store) if I had not discovered how great it was to do this. It has only made me love Netflix more.

Re:I want what comes next

[LordKronos]

That's what I've been doing when I don't have time to watch it right away (except I rip them to my mythbox...no need to burn anything).

The problem I'm having is that I'm unprofitable for Netflix, so rather than just canning me outright, they are doing their best to slow me down. After the first couple months of 8 movies per month, many of my returns started taking 2 days to get back to them (the return center is very local, so they have to be sitting on it for a day). That slows my down to under 2 per week. I kept that rate up for a couple more months, and occasionally got 2 a week by mailing back the same day I received it (or when my return actually got processed next day). Now the latest trick is 3 of the last 4 movies have been being shipped from across the country. Thats never happened before, and these aren't old/rare movies, nor are they movies in high demand. They are couple of year old movies that had their run. I never had any problems before with movies being shipped across the country, so it seems more than coincidence.

Anyway, those 2 acts have my rental rate just over 1 per week. That doesn't make it very worthwhile to use Netflix. On top of that, they've been shoving me to the back of the queue for new movies. I added King Kong to my queue the week before it was released. The morning of release, I checked my queue and it said short wait. Later that day it changed to long wait. The next morning it was now a VERY long wait. It's been 4 or 5 weeks now since King King came out, and I'm still at a long wait.

Anyway, my Netflix subscription is just about renew, so I'm planning on cancelling and switching to blockbuster. Well see how they are, but the one real advantage I see there is that they give you coupons for 2 free store rentals per month. That means even if they do the same sort of profiling of high use customers, I can still run out and get the movie from the local Blockbuster in a timely manner.

Re:I want what comes next

[idhindsight]

I agree. I just dropped Netflix after sitting on the same three DVDs for a month or two. I just don't have the time, and like you, I put something on my queue today that looks enticing, and when I get it two days later, I'm no longer interested.

Not to mention, of course, that Netflix simply doesn't fulfill the "I'm bored, let's go rent a movie" activity.

Re:I want what comes next

[joshsisk]

I don't do the burn thing, but still I return about 3-4 movies a week and have never been throttled. I don't think the throttling thing really happens much anymore. Or maybe you have to return them the same day they arrive, but really... 3-4 movies a week for $20 is worth it.

Re:I want what comes next

[mobiux]

The mysterious 4 day arrival thing comes from the different distribution centers.
Most of mine are from the minneapolis, but if minneapolis doesn't have the movie I want, it comes from san jose or someplace like that.
And they tend to ship back from where they came.
So i print up address labels to the minneapolis center, so all my movies get back in 1 day.

Re:I want what comes next

[grasshoppa]

*cough* dvdshrink *cough*

Re:I want what comes next

[the_Bionic_lemming]

Throttling is the reason I'm dumping netflix. I've gone from 5 or 5 dvd's a week, to three - four if I'm lucky - occaisionally one dvd when I'm extremely unlucky.

Re:I want what comes next

[geoffspear]

Right. The distribution centers with the same ZIP code (in my city) they had when I was in the one month trial period suddenly moved across the country (without changing that ZIP code) once I was a paying customer.

I suspect you think I'll believe the USPS would allow them to move and keep their ZIP code in the same way you'll expect me to believe that the postal service suddenly got very inefficient at delivering mail across town in that same time period.

Oddly enough, my mortgage payments get across town just as quickly as they did before, but I'm sure the slightly wider DVD envelope is being delayed by a brand new mail sorting technology the USPS just installed, coincidentally right after my trial period ended, in my area.

On the other hand, while Blockbuster was quicker in sending new movies, we cancelled when it became obvious that they were incapable of sending the DVD at the top of our queue, listed as "Now Available", instead sending the next DVD in the same TV series which was listed after it. If you want to watch the episodes in order, that's pretty annoying. Especially if you keep the out of order DVD and hope to get the correct one when you return another movie. Such faith in their system would be really naive. You're likely to get the next one after the one you're holding, with the one you want to see still sitting atop your queue.

I think the whole industry is a giant conspiracy to get people going back to the bricks and mortar rental locations so they can afford their rent.

Re:I want what comes next

[stefanlasiewski]

Did you notice Throttling for popular movies or extremely rare movies-- where popularity exceeds the supply? From my experience, these delays are very rare.

Often we'll return 3 movies at the same time, and will receive 3 new movies in the mail 2 days later, all at the same time. We live in Berkeley, CA and are only a few hours from the primary distribution centers or the NetFlix headquarters.

Re:I want what comes next

[toad3k]

Yeah I rent maybe 15 a month, and I have never been throttled either. I have never seen a video with less than 'now' availability. At about a dollar a movie, which to me is great, I'm not too inclined to push to get to that level either.

Although I admit I'm getting to the point where I can't find any movies to watch, and I'm going through the anime section pretty fast. I could see myself running out of interest in a few months.

Re:I want what comes next

[MindStalker]

3 or 4 dvds a week is still 12-16 a month. renting 12 dvds a month at a brick and mortor would cost you 40 dollars at least.

Re:I want what comes next

[thelem]

I don't know what's available in the US, but the UK's FilmFlex cable VOD service seems like exactly what you are after. New movies appear a couple of months later then they do in Blockbuster, but they've got about 700 movies to choose from and you don't have to go out to a branch. Price is similar to a rental from Blockbuster.

http://www.filmflexmovies.com/

Re:I want what comes next

[the_Bionic_lemming]

Library has three a day for free. the movie place near me has older movies at fifty cents for seven days.

Netflix was only reasonable at the price for me not having to wait to see series dvd's that I'd have to order at the library.

At this rate - I'm better off walking to the library or the dvd store .

Re:I want what comes next

[Breakfast Pants]

When you cancle netflix will offer your a couple of month's at half-off. As you don't seem to be the "opps I forgot about my subscription and paid for 6 months" type you should take them up on it.

Re:I want what comes next

[contrapunctus]

You could slip 2 DVDs (or more) in an envelope that is addressed to your local distribution center and discard the envelope that is addressed to the remore distribution center. No printing necessary.

Re:I want what comes next

[lgw]

This is exactly what I do. 2/3rds of my Netflix rentals are TV shows (often anime, or original cable programmiong I don't otherwise get). There's always a TV show I want to watch now, and I actually look forward to the movies.

Re:I want what comes next

[Anonymous Coward]

US cable companies offer VOD, and in HD too. Films, shows, sports, you name it, they're supplying it on demand (my area anyway). Costs are $4-$45 (yes, fourty five bucks).

Re:I want what comes next

[koweja]

Netflix is loaning me Babylon 5. That is all that matters. All inconviences are trivial. They could require me to punch 12 Blockbuster users in the face before shipping me a disc and I would still use their services.

Re:I want what comes next

[massysett]

I know I don't "get my money's worth" from Netflix compared to renting in a Blockbuster store. Lately I watch about three discs a month. The Netflix is something like $17 a month, so renting them in store probably would be cheaper.

But then I would have to go to the store, find out that they don't have what I originally wanted, pick something else from the paltry selection, wait in the ridiculously long line, and then return the thing a few days later.

$17 a month for convenience is worth it. I always have something new in my house that I can watch whenever I want.

Re:I want what comes next

[Da_Weasel]

GameAndFlix.com

I don't rent alot of movies, mostly because i'm usually too busy with other things to watch them. But I get "3 out" for 16.99, and will probably upgrade to the 6 out for ~$20 a month, because my kids rent and watch enough movies to make it worth while. I dumped the Unlimited Blockbuster brick and morter membership because I was tired of driving back and forth all of the time and because my Blockbuster had a limited Independant Film section. Another bonus is that your rentals can be any mix of Movies and Games. I'm not sure how other sites do this since i have not had a Netflix account since they first opened for business.

Just some unorganized FYI....

Re:I want what comes next

[Bungleman]

This is exactly my dilemma. Initially I started my Netflix subscription to rent a lot of anime and tv shows that I normally wouldn't be able to find in a rental store. I live in a small town without a Blockbuster or anything like that, so for that purpose Netflix works fine. But what it comes down to is, like you mentioned, there are many nights that I don't want to watch a movie. Right now I'm in the middle of my own 'movie drought' where work or other 'real life' things get in the way of my movie watching. At this point, I'm giving Netflix money for nothing.

On top of that, just the other night my wife had friends over who had already seen or didn't want to watch the movies we had ordered from Netflix. Well, there goes another five bucks because she just went and rented something else from the store. The bottom line is that Netflix just isn't convenient enough for me to continue subscribing too. Yes, it's convenient in the fact that I don't have to drive to the store. But many times when I'm renting a movie, driving to the store is what I need anyway.

Re:I want what comes next

[Paul Slocum]

I cancelled cable ($44/mo) and am signing up with Netflix 3-at-a-time ($18/mo) which has almost all the shows I like to watch on cable and broadcast TV, and many that I want to watch but didn't get because they were on premium channels. And it elimates what I previously spent renting movies ($10-$15/mo).

Only disadvantage is that I can't watch the most current stuff, but I don't care. There's enough older stuff out on DVD to keep me occupied for years.

Re:I want what comes next

[timeOday]

Recently, I've gone through nearly three busy weeks when I haven't had time and haven't been in the mood to watch a movie. At that point, my subscription isn't very cost-effective.

You have just discovered the secret of the marketing masterstroke known as the MONTHLY BILL. This weapon has been known to our enemies for some time.

Re:I want what comes next

[rho]

I don't do that. They come in, we watch 'em when we have time. They go back out. Some months we watch 3 movies a week--some months, just 3 movies total. At $20/month, it's a good deal for me for these reasons:

1) If I hear about a movie I might want to see, or if somebody recommends something I haven't seen, I put the movie in the queue. No fuss trying to remember anything.

2) We don't have cable, so this is the majority of our entertainment budget.

3) With no late fees, we have total control of when we want to watch something.

4) Practically endless choices. I've never gone looking for a movie that I couldn't find.

If you're going to rip the DVDs as soon as they arrive, why not just download them from torrents? It's just a legal (or illegal, rather), and you don't have to worry about shelling out that MASSIVE $19.95 every month and making sure that you somehow game the system so your Netflix rentals work out to be $0.25/movie like a penniless schlub.

Re:I want what comes next

[Peyna]

This may be walking the tightrope of "fair usage", but that's the reality of how people I know are using this sort of service.

It's more a licensing issue than fair use. I'm sure you expressly agreed to not do something along the lines of copying it when you rented it, so it doesn't matter if there is fair use, you've breached your contract with them.

Re:I want what comes next

[Anonymous Coward]

No tightrope, no fine line, just plain illegal. Sorry. Even if you owned the DVD, you violated the DMCA by copying it since there aren't many official DVDs out there which aren't encrypted, but, since you do not own it you do not have the legal right to a backup anyway. In particular, the law stated that it is only supposed to be possible for one copy to be in use at the same time, never two or more at the same time (without further licenses or a bulk license that is.)

Don't get me wrong, I don't actually disagree with you entirely. Users SHOULD be able to do this sort of thing legally. Or at least they should provide some more reasonable means. My grandmother not so very long ago used a library service to get a series and they used a crappy system not so dissimilar from the netflix system. She received her videos over VERY long delays and 100% random order. It made it impossible to watch the series (it was a drama, not a comedy or something, so order mattered.) This is just useless and she has since stopped the system. This isn't as much of a problem with movies like most get from such a service, but, it does demonstrate on a larger scale just how unacceptable this almost completely random system really is. You should be able to pick what you want when you want it.

Watch out for TV over IP. People like TiVo are even already looking into changing content and such. If a service allowed a user to pick anything they want to see when they want to see it, people would pay more to use that service and none at all for something unreliable like netflix.

Re:I want what comes next

[Anonymous Coward]

So is the netflix page bluffing when it says: Cancellation will be effective immediately. There are no refunds for partial months. You can sign up for Netflix Service again at any time; however, you will not be eligible for another free Netflix Service offer. I'd hate to loose the movie list in my queue...

Re:I want what comes next

[Slashdot Junky]

I feel about Netflix the same way you do. The value for me is in convenience and selection. I've paid way more per movie since the TV season started last September than what I could have paid by renting from a store, because I've been sitting on movies for many weeks before watching them. I didn't cancel, because I like having movies waiting. Netflix isn't for everyone; it is for me.

Although Netflix probably shouldn't use "unlimited" when marketing their service, the customer should not consider it to be unlimited. Although I do believe that Netflix is trottling some subscribers, the system limits what a person can rent in any given month, and this has nothing to do with a trottling policy.

Later,
-Slashdot Junky

Re:I want what comes next

[Anonymous Coward]

He explicitly stated he doesn't keep the image. He's not pirating, just timeshifting.

Re:I want what comes next

[Hogwash McFly]

He explicitly stated he doesn't keep the image

And what becomes of the DVD-RW explicitly stated in his post? Is that destroyed also?

Re:I want what comes next

[Anonymous Coward]

but look look he tells us how getting the most bang for the buck is what penniless shlubs do. By implication this means that a guy whose entire monthly entertainment budget $20 is morally or socially superior. $20 people! omfg run away from the awesome!

  if you're wondering i spend some $150 a month, that must mean i'm superior right? right?!! maybe..

Re:I want what comes next

[EggyToast]

I assume the DVD-RW is mentioned to point out that he reuses the same disc or discs over and over again. It starts to eat into the effectiveness when you need to buy more RW discs, catalog them, store them, etc.

Re:I want what comes next

[Hogwash McFly]

Good point.

I guess that when I read the bit about copying disks I instinctively imagined those pack rats that build up their own Netflix library of burned films to get all their money's worth.

Of course, a DVD-RW makes far less sense for this purpose than a DVD-R, so I must be having a bit of a slow day today ;)

Re:I want what comes next

[metamatic]

The distribution centers with the same ZIP code (in my city) they had when I was in the one month trial period suddenly moved across the country (without changing that ZIP code) once I was a paying customer.

That's odd. I moved across the country, and Netflix automatically switched the distribution center to the one in the same city I had moved to. I didn't have to do anything. And I've been a customer since a few months after they launched.

I'm really mystified by the bitching about Netflix.

Re:I want what comes next

[Breakfast Pants]

Oh I'm sorry, I should have mentioned this: you have to call and cancel in person to get the offer.

Re:I want what comes next

[DoctaWatson]

Blockbuster "throttled" me just the way you describe. Movies that were shipped to a city 4 hours away would take half a week to arrive. And there were many occasions where I was sent the wrong movie over and over again.

Re:I want what comes next

[letxa2000]

I was wondering how that "out of sequence episodes" thing would work. Apparenty it doesn't. Good to know.

We're currenly subscribed to Blockbuster, but I'm not sure for how long. We're not really using the mail-in system very much. The only reason we haven't already cancelled it is because they give you a coupon for a free rental from a brick and mortar store once per week. As long as we use each coupon, the subscription makes sense even if we don't send/receive anything via the mail.

I've noticed the Netflix catalog seems more complete than Blockbuster on obscure titles, and it seems an unfortunate number of items in our Blockbuster queue are listed as "Long Delay." This isn't helping keep us with them. If/when my wife and I ever get efficient enough to know what we want to see a day or two before we want to see it, we may very well cancel Blockbuster and go to Netflix.

Re:I want what comes next

[rolfwind]

If you're going to rip the DVDs as soon as they arrive, why not just download them from torrents? It's just a legal (or illegal, rather), and you don't have to worry about shelling out that MASSIVE $19.95 every month and making sure that you somehow game the system so your Netflix rentals work out to be $0.25/movie like a penniless schlub.

Some reasons someone would do this just off the top of my head:

1)DVD quality - not a 600MB avi or whatever.
2)Use your bandwidth for something else.
3)Prevent having your ISP kicking you off for excessive bandwidth use.
4)Both may be illegal, but I doubt they can track your activity with the netflix method. If you download off the net, that's another story.
5)Don't have to worry about virus/malware - unless you rent Sony DVDs:) I don't think this is anything to worry about, but it gives some people peace of mind.
6)Variety. Unless you are looking for the latest anime releases and Pron, I doubt the net has the consistent range of offerings as Netflix does in mainstream movies, past and present. Especially well seeded. As most movies today are crap, I like to watch somewhat older movies, yesterday it was "Name of the Rose" with Sean Connery. I doubt this is at any torrent site and if it is, probably not well-seeded.
7)Really consider the Political climate in the highly unlikely chance you get "caught" (I don't know if the MPAA is resorting to the same sue 'em tactics the RIAA is). But I really doubt the movie companies will drag someone who rented a movie to court. Especially if he deleted the copy later on, essentially just time-shifting. If he downloaded it though, that's a whole nother story because that be the intarweb, and when the intarweb is involved, the issue goes into the all-spin zone. It's like if you kill someone, that is bad in itself but the mundane thing would be to label it murder, while the new, hip thing is to label it terrorism and get a kneejerk emotional response.

Note: I'm not saying all these reasons are likely or even reasonable.

Re:I want what comes next

[rolfwind]

Oh and number 8)In this day and age, still not everybody has broadband.

Re:I want what comes next

[rho]

He explicitly stated he doesn't keep the image. He's not pirating, just timeshifting.

I timeshift too. I watch it when I'm good and ready. Then I mail it back. That's kind of the point of Netflix.

I wonder if he's ever had a rip go corrupt on him and needed to re-rent the disc.

Re:I want what comes next

[jandrese]

If your library has a selection even in the same ballpark as Netflix I'd say go for it you lucky bastard. However, I have never, ever, seen a library selection that even made me thing it was even worth the Librarian's time to deal with it. Also, the 7 days at 50 cents deals are usually on extremly crappy movies that video store owners don't even want on their shelf anymore. Half of the time I think they're secretly wishing you'll steal it so they don't have to try to sell it.

It's to be expected really

[Frenchman113]

Infinite rentals, no due dates, a massive library, and you can rent from your very own chair without ever leaving your house. What's blockbuster got to top that?

Re:It's to be expected really

[DigiShaman]

Video On Demand right from the cable box. Can't beat that ;)

Re:It's to be expected really

[gEvil (beta)]

What's blockbuster got to top that?

Ummm, infinite rentals, no due dates, a massive library, and you can rent from your very own chair without ever leaving your house. (Hint: I'm not talking about the brick and mortar Blockbuster.)

Re:It's to be expected really

[AndyBusch]

BB online has one tiny advantage. Since they can take their pool from the stores that have been buying DVDs longer than Netflix, BB online has a few movies I am interested in seeing, but went out of print before Netflix was buying DVDs.

Not enough that I'd switch, as BB is more frequently missing things.

Re:It's to be expected really

[kfg]

What's blockbuster got to top that?

Coupla decades of building brand recognition and customer base?

KFG

Re:It's to be expected really

[Scutter]

Infinite rentals? Infinite up to 11 per month when they start throttling your deliveries, you mean. Not such a good deal now, is it?

Re:It's to be expected really

[DigiShaman]

Coupla decades of building brand recognition and customer base?

Such as getting screwed by their late fee policies? That's what I think of Block Buster...

Haha
Hahahahahaaaa

Re:It's to be expected really

[kfg]

Such as getting screwed by their late fee policies? That's what I think of Block Buster...

I wouldn't know about that. I simply return them on time. It's a simple plan, but it works.

KFG

Re:It's to be expected really

[Fett101]

"What's blockbuster got to top that?"

Monthly Free rental cupons. Very handy for sudden movie urges.

Re:It's to be expected really

[gfxguy]

Have you not seen their "late policy" lately? In essence, there's really no such thing anymore. Even a two day rental has a WEEK grace period. If you can't return it within a week, then it's really your fault.

I also never complained about getting nailed by the late policy before this, either... You rent the damn movie, they tell you when it's due back, you return by that time. If you don't, you get a penalty. It's only fair, seeing as how you were denying them from possibly renting it to someone else. I don't understand how people could complain about it.

Re:It's to be expected really

[antibryce]

Well let's do the math. 11 rentals at the "3 DVDs out at a time" plan works out to be about $0.61 per rental.

Still seems like a great deal to me. That's even ignoring any DVDs you get after the throttling kicks in.

Re:It's to be expected really

[DigiShaman]

Granted, it's been years since I last rented from them. And your right, It's no one elses fault by my own for not returning the movies ontime. The problem I have however is being raked over the coals come time for payment. Clearly I'm not in the minority. In fact, there was a report saying BB made more in profits from late fees than anything else.

Given the competition and albit disgruntled customer base, no wonder they changed the "late policy". It's a smart move.

Re:It's to be expected really

[Morinaga]

Overhead. Lots and lots of overhead.

Re:It's to be expected really

[cmorgan47]

still about a buck a rental that way. seems like a pretty good deal.

Re:It's to be expected really

[joshsisk]

Blockbuster has a really low public image. They are known for over-aggressive late fee policies, for not carrying the unrated versions of movies, for not carrying specific titles that were controversial, etc. I believe that BBO does indeed carry unrated versions, but, in general, most people have a very negative view of Blockbuster. Their brand recognition doesn't help them much (obviously, or they'd be ahead of Netflix).

Re:It's to be expected really

[kfg]

Blockbuster has a really low public image. They are known for over-aggressive late fee policies. . .

And Netflix has the throttling people who seek to get maximum value from their subscription thing going.

Their brand recognition doesn't help them much (obviously, or they'd be ahead of Netflix).

Being late to the starting line does not imply finishing last.

KFG

Re:It's to be expected really

[Scutter]

Well let's do the math. 11 rentals at the "3 DVDs out at a time" plan works out to be about $0.61 per rental.

Wait, $17.99 (3-at-a-time plan)/11 = $0.61? How about $1.64? Still, not a bad deal, until you realize you can't get new releases for the first two months because you're sent to the back of the line, or it takes three to four days (it often takes 5-7 days for me) to get the next title on your list.

Re:It's to be expected really

[antibryce]

Yeah $1.64 is more accurate. It pays to actually look at my terminal window while using bc.

I don't really use Netflix for new movies, as most new movies I either saw in the theater and want to own or I didn't see it in the theater because I'm in no hurry to. I absolutely love Netflix for TV shows, as there is no way I'm going to shell out $50+ per season for some of the shows out there but I wouldn't mind watching them again.

Re:It's to be expected really

[archen]

I'll second the monthy cupons being handy. I don't rent newer movies so this probably doesn't apply to most people. I signed up for the rewards or whatever in the hell it's called program. I haven't paid for a movie rental in 8 months or so. Just rent an old release the last week of each month and the next month cupon prints on the back.

Re:It's to be expected really

[joshsisk]

And Netflix has the throttling people who seek to get maximum value from their subscription thing going.

I have watched an average of 3-4 Netflix discs per week since 2000 and my disc turnaround has only gotten faster since then (because they opened a warehouse near me). The only time I have noticed oddities in delievery was when I queued an obscure or rare film, or something that was brand new. So, that's 12-16 movies a month with no apparent throttling... to get throttled, I'd have to watch more than 16 netflix movies a month? I'll never have that much free time.

Either I am quite lucky, or, more likely, most people getting throttled are burning discs and returning them unwatched, same day. Most people don't know about this practice, so I doubt it will affect the average person's desire to join Netflix, if they even hear about it. Most people don't watch 30 movies a month.

Being late to the starting line does not imply finishing last.

Didn't say it does. The article states that Netflix is signing up customers at a quicker rate than BB is. If BB's brand recognition is a big boon to them, I would think that they would be signing up new customers faster than Netflix (who have been in the rent-by-mail business for longer), but that doesn't appear to be the case. Netflix's base is apparently growing faster than BBO, not slower.

Re:It's to be expected really

[Senobyzal]

When I signed up I figured if I just got 5 a month it would still be a better deal than going to the local BB or Hollywood, where rentals are now over $4 each with tax.

The last two months I've rented 11 and 12 movies respectively with Netflix. Heck, even if I dropped below 5 for some reason I'd probably keep the service, since I used to really hate going to my local video rental stores (most have stopped carrying anything but new releases and a token selection from other categories, and the lines are always long, with only one register open). Netflix isn't perfect but it's a nice alternative to the traditional model.

Re:It's to be expected really

[Scutter]

I actually use it for british sitcoms and some older stuff that's hard to find, I just find it a bitter pill to swallow when they lure you in and then degrade your service. I was hesitant to begin with because I didn't want YAMF (Yet Another Monthly Fee) to deal with, but the free trial was great. Then it began taking progressively longer to get my next movie. Now the $17/month isn't so great.

Re:It's to be expected really

[toad3k]

I was having problems with movies shipping slowly, some took over a week for one way travel. I was averaging barely over 12 a month, watching and returning them the same day most of the time. I was about a week from giving up and canceling when something clicked, and since then every single movie delivery/return has taken only a single day.

And no, I don't rip. Frankly I'm having a hard enough time finding something worth watching at my current relaxed pace.

Re:It's to be expected really

[lgw]

I tried that once, about a decade ago, only to discover that Blockbuster was lying about how long you get to keep the movies. I forget the details now, something about "3 evenings rental" actually meaning 2 days, or somehting like that. I have no tolerance for that sort of deception (whatever it was) and haven't been in a Blockbuster since, and still wouldn't give them money today.

Re:It's to be expected really

[kfg]

Either I am quite lucky, or, more likely, most people getting throttled are burning discs and returning them unwatched

And most people getting burned by Blockbuster are people who simply don't get their tapes back on time.

Most people don't watch 30 movies a month.

I don't every month. In fact I go months at a time without even turning on the set, but when I watch about all I watch are movies, so I can go far more than 30 in a month. Don't burn non of 'em. Ok, I've got VHS copies of Fearless Vampire Killers, Remo Williams and Tank on VHS taped off of cable. So sue me.

By the way, I don't use either Netflix or Blockbuster, so I have no personal stake in the issue. I just answered a question is all.

The article states that Netflix is signing up customers at a quicker rate than BB is.

In an endurance race being slow off the line is often a decent predictor of the winner. Rent Hidalgo.

KFG

Re:It's to be expected really

[lgw]

Either I am quite lucky, or, more likely, most people getting throttled are burning discs and returning them unwatched, same day.

Yup, that's exactly who's getting throttled. Doesn't bother me any, but then I can afford to pay for what I want to watch. Even at only 1 rental per week per slot, it's still dirt cheap. Of course, I do Netflix instead of cable, so it looks very cheap indeed by comparison.

Re:It's to be expected really

[HarvardAce]

There are Blockbusters that still have the no late fee policy in place? The stores in my area (Southwestern CT, and also a couple that my family on Long Island frequents) got rid of the no late fee policy less than a month after it started because customers were always taking the full week grace period. I remember going in the second week of the promotion and there were almost no new releases left in stock. They quickly reversed course and again charge a late fee per day (1/3 of the rental fee per day for new releases, 1/5 for older releases).

I now have Blockbuster online, and it's really a good deal. For $15 a month I get 3 movies out at a time, and I also get two free rentals at the B&M Blockbuster for those days where I just get the urge to see a certain movie. At $5 per rental at the B&M Blockbuster, it's really a good deal. As long as I watch more than 3 movies a month (which I do easily) it pays for itself, plus online has a lot bigger selection than the local Blockbuster does.

Re:It's to be expected really

[HarvardAce]

Still, not a bad deal, until you realize you can't get new releases for the first two months because you're sent to the back of the line,

And this is why I really like Blockbuster online. In those cases where I can't get a new release from the online store, I have two free rentals at the local Blockbuster per month, and they are pretty good at having sufficient stock of the new releases. I usually rent the older movies online, and pick up the new releases at the store. I haven't had any issues yet where I haven't been able to get the movie I wanted in a reasonable time frame.

My only complaint is that there's currently no way to specify that you want a particular movie before they ship another. Twice I've received a sequel to a movie before I got the original, even though the sequel was much further down the queue from the original. Now I have to only put the first movie on my queue, and then add the next one when the first one gets shipped. It's not too complicated but it is a little annoying.

Re:It's to be expected really

[Mister Whirly]

"What's blockbuster got to top that?"

Edited movies, no "adult content", and masssive contibutions to right-wing organizations.

Re:It's to be expected really

[plague3106]

You rent the damn movie, they tell you when it's due back, you return by that time. If you don't, you get a penalty. It's only fair, seeing as how you were denying them from possibly renting it to someone else. I don't understand how people could complain about it.

Because every other video store in america said '2 day rental' to mean that if you rented on friday, you had to return it on sunday. Blockbuster started counting the day you rented it, meaning something rented on friday had to be back the next day (which is what every other rental place considered '1 day rental.').

Re:It's to be expected really

[plague3106]

Oh, and also the late fees were MORE than if you had returned the movie and rented it again. So while you paid $4 for a '2 day rental' you ended up paying $5 for returning it one day late.

Re:It's to be expected really

[pthisis]

There are Blockbusters that still have the no late fee policy in place? The stores in my area (Southwestern CT, and also a couple that my family on Long Island frequents) got rid of the no late fee policy less than a month after it started because customers were always taking the full week grace period.

All the company-owned Blockbuster stores are no late fees. About 40% of the franchises are no late fee, and only about 150 stores nationwide switched to no late fees and then switched back to late fees.

There are about 4,600 company-owned stores and just over 1,000 franchises, so about 90% of all Blockbuster stores are currently no-late-fee.

Re:It's to be expected really

[Zenin]

Agreed. And since I check my LiveJournal friends page more often then I check email, throwing NetFlix's RSS feed into my friends page makes it trivial to keep up on what new stuff has been released.

Re:It's to be expected really

[joshsisk]

And most people getting burned by Blockbuster are people who simply don't get their tapes back on time. ...or people whose late fees were artificially boosted, which they have been sued for before. As recently as this year, states have sued Blockbuster of their late fee policies. Not individual consumers, whole states. It's been covered on Slashdot; that's where I read about it.

In an endurance race being slow off the line is often a decent predictor of the winner. Rent Hidalgo.

If you want to call it an endurance race, I'd point out that Blockbuster's $1 billion in debt vs Netflix's $0 is the equivilant of one athelete coming to the race 40 pounds overweight and after an all-night bender, vs the other who got good rest.

With that debt, and the rapid shrinkage of their brick and mortar store base, they can't afford to make it an endurance race... this fact was, I believe, pointed out in the article, as well.

Re:It's to be expected really

[Kennon]

Not sure if this is a local Blockbuster thing or nationwide but I pay $20/month to BB and I can walk in and pick out 2 movies anytime I want with no late fees. If I wanted to go through 6 movies in a 24 hour period (I've done it before, wife and 3 kids on a weekend when everyone in the house is sick except me) I can do that. I show up, drop off my 2 current movies, pick up two new ones and I am home in 10 mins. It is really the best deal for me. I was on Netflix for a year before getting this deal and I liked it a lot. It was my wife who talked me into the Blockbuster deal (right as always). I felt awfully loyal to Netflix so I resisted at first but now I see it is the only way to go for our house. And now that I hear about netflix throttling heavyily active renters I am even more sure that the current deal I am on is the best for me. We do not have an aerial or cable/sat attached to either of our televisions in our house so the only TV we watch is DVD's, so we are kind of a unique situation, but this would not be viable on a mail-in dvd rental program.

Re:It's to be expected really

[MCraigW]

something about "3 evenings rental" actually meaning 2 days,

I believe that they called it a "three day rental", but it had to be returned by noon of the third day, so it really was only a two evening rental.

Re:It's to be expected really

[Blakey Rat]

Uh. The exact same. Try visiting Blockbuster.com once in awhile.

You're way out of date, buddy. Blockbuster has been matching Netflix's service for like a year and a half or more now.

Re:It's to be expected really

[Nevyn]

The two things they did to screw me over was: 1) Say "return by Friday", but not say it had to be returned by 10am Friday. 2) Deceptivly confused me about "long rental" offers, so you keep a movie for days longer than you should (and they don't tell you).

I've been BB free for a couple of years, and never had any late fee problems with my local video rental store.

Re:It's to be expected really

[kfg]

the equivilant of one athelete coming to the race 40 pounds overweight and after an all-night bender

Worked for Babe Ruth. Of course he was the strike out king, but he made up for it in volume.

KFG

Re:It's to be expected really

[joshsisk]

the equivilant of one athelete coming to the race 40 pounds overweight and after an all-night bender

Worked for Babe Ruth. Of course he was the strike out king, but he made up for it in volume.

Won a lot of races, did he?

Re:It's to be expected really

[kfg]

Won a lot of races, did he?

Yep, beat the ball to home plate.

KFG

Re:It's to be expected really

[Anonymous Coward]

If you can't return it within a week, then it's really your fault. I don't understand how people could complain about it.

Because they advertized no late fees, dipshit. No late fees means no late fees, not "oh we'll give you an extra week and charge you a late fee then". It's not the fault of the customer, it's the fault of the boneheads in Blockbusters marketing and legal departments. You should apply.

Re:It's to be expected really

[joshsisk]

Not hard to beat the ball anywhere when you have scored a home run - which is obviously not the same as an "endurance race", which you implied this competition is.

If you want to change metaphors, though, that's fine... BB hasn't hit any home runs recently, nor do any seem likely in the future, based on their current & past performance.

Re:It's to be expected really

[kfg]

Not hard to beat the ball anywhere when you have scored a home run

A home run is defined as having beaten the ball to home plate. It doesn't matter what the ball is doing, you have to run the bases and touch home plate without being touched by the ball.

If you want to change metaphors, though, that's fine...

Any number of metaphors are possible. They are illustrative, not identity. If conditions change (drunk and overweight) I shall chose an appropriate illustration.

Ok, look, if were to bet who was going to be ahead at the end of the year (the actual parameters set by the article) I would certainly go with Netflix. If, however, you asked me to bet who was going to come out ahead in five years I would refuse. It is far from certain.

I am not Nexflix customer, so I am not a Netflix fanboy. However, neither am I a Blockbuster customer or fanboy.

A challange was issued in the form of a question. I simply supplied an answer to that question. Blockbuster has certain advantages that Netflix does not have. If they blow them that is no nevermind to me. I have no stake in the result, nor do I even care about the result.

I get my DVDs from the local public library.

KFG

Re:It's to be expected really

[joshsisk]

A home run is defined as having beaten the ball to home plate.

A home run is when you are at bat, and you score a run. Which pretty much only happens in pro ball when you knock the ball past the outfield, right? Don't watch a lot of baseball myself these days, but I don't think inside home runs are all that common. Certainly, Babe Ruth was not known for hitting inside home runs. He was known for knocking balls out of the park, or at least out of the outfield - he was a power hitter.

Re:It's to be expected really

[kfg]

A home run is when you are at bat, and you score a run.

Which you do by running the bases without getting touched by the ball. It's the only way to score a run.

Ruth did this despite being drunk and overweight, because he could hit with enough power to make up for his being drunk and overweight, he could thus run at leisure, and often enough to make up for his many strikeouts.

He was known for knocking balls out of the park, or at least out of the outfield - he was a power hitter.

And I know of no way to predict that Blockbuster won't knock one out the park sometime in the next few years, unlike Ruth they ain't dead yet, or that lean and fit Netflix won't fuck up and strike out.

I wouldn't invest in either one, as they both have some serious problems to face and may simply not be here in five years time.

KFG

Re:It's to be expected really

[joshsisk]

Ruth did this despite being drunk and overweight, because he could hit with enough power to make up for his being drunk and overweight, he could thus run at leisure, and often enough to make up for his many strikeouts.

Which was my exact point above. Blockbuster has a pretty bad track record so far, and their traditional business seems to be failing (losses, stores closing, selling off assets). You made the point that this might be an endurance race, but I don't see any signs that Blockbuster can win in any sort of endurance situation (since they are woefully in debt and have started selling off sections of their business).

Now you suggest that they may hit a home run? Maybe, but I would say that the likelihood is exceedingly low, as they have no track record of ever doing so before - unlike the Babe.

i wished they'd pay-as-you-go

[boxlight]

I would like to use an online rental service like Netflix (more specifically, their Canadian equiv. zip.ca) instead of Blockbuster, but I don't want to be locked in with their subscription model.

If they would introduce some kind of pay-as-you-go scheme, that would be ideal. I don't want to pay the monthly fee as in any given month I may only rent one movie -- or none at all.

boxlight

Re:i wished they'd pay-as-you-go

[kevin_conaway]

And you're they're worst nightmare.

They would make no money off of you. Business is a 2-way street you know. They get to make money and you get something in return.

I think the situation you're describing is more suited for the "on-demand" model of cable television.

Re:i wished they'd pay-as-you-go

[joshsisk]

The problem with your idea is that with these services, you have movies at home even if you aren't watching them. So even if you didn't watch any movies, you have 3 or more movies at your house that whole month you didn't watch anything.

I like the idea, though. It would be nice if the rent-by-mail services would let you put a temporary hold on your account, like if you go on vacation or are just going to be busy. You would have to mail back the DVDs you have, of course, but they wouldn't bill you again until you take the hold off.

Re:i wished they'd pay-as-you-go

[Secrity]

A pay as you go business model doesn't work very well for video rentals when the videos are sent by mail. Pay as you go rentals are based you having the video in your posession for a short period of time, usually between 1 and 7 days plus several hours because the movie is usually due back at midnight rather than at the same time of day that it was rented. In the best case scenario, three or four days would have to be added to the rental time in order to accomodate the mail delay. With a monthly subscription model it doen't matter how long a movie is out; with pay-as-you-go, each day a movie is in transit adds to costs. What happens if the post office messes up and the movie takes a week to get to the customer or takes a week to return it? If the DVD is lost in the mail, would a pay-as-you-go rental company be as likely to forgive the price of replacing the DVD? I would guess that instead of $5 for a three day B&M video rental, a pay-as-you-go mail order three day rental would reasonably cost at least $10 per movie if the mail takes an average of 2 days each way. Another issue is that pay-as-you-go customers would probably not be as flexible as monthly subscribers as to when a specific movie is shipped. A typical pay-as-you-go customer will probably want the latest movie that was released on Tuesday to be shipped on Wednesday so that it arrives on Friday to be watched it over the weekend. This level of service is going to require a large number of copies of each new release and if anybody ever offers a mail order video service like this it is going to be very pricey.

Re:i wished they'd pay-as-you-go

[truesaer]

I don't think you've thought this through all the way...you have 3 movies at your house with Netflix, all the time. You've basically got a permanent rental of 3 movies. If you want "pay as you go" that would mean selecting a movie and then they mail it to you, it arrives 1-2 days later for you to watch. I guess its possible thats what you're asking for, but I doubt it. Probably what you're saying is that you want to pay by the number of discs you return each month. But that isn't a feasible business model, Netflix needs to hold the same amount of inventory to have 3 discs out to a certain number of customers whether those customers never watch them or return them frequently.

Re:i wished they'd pay-as-you-go

[Anonymous Coward]

Check out http://www.peerflix.com/ ... they're not terribly quick, but not too bad on the whole.

Re:i wished they'd pay-as-you-go

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't know, I'd like to think I'm their worst nightmare.

I got a Blockbuster membership back in, oh, 1999 or so. This was years after I'd been a heavy renter at the locally owned chain which by this time, had closed up shop. It didn't help that BB charged more than double, pushing me ever closer to going all-retail purchases, but a pair of disputes over late charges were really the final nail in the coffin. I probably haven't been in a Blockbuster since 2001 and have no desire whatsoever to join an online rental service.

Re:i wished they'd pay-as-you-go

[bovilexics]

Here is a convenient pay-as-you-go site that works well. I for one prefer this model to the subscription model. More cost efficient if you go for long periods of time without a rental. Selection is decent as well, but not amazing. Either way, still worth a look if you don't like subscriptions.

http://dvdovernight.com/

Re:i wished they'd pay-as-you-go

[Anonymous Coward]

They would make no money off of you. Business is a 2-way street you know. They get to make money and you get something in return.

I would argue - as a convicted capitalist - that business is based more on trust than profit. Netflix has eroded that trust somewhat.

Re:i wished they'd pay-as-you-go

[SmartAlex]

There are a few websites that let you rent movies by mail on a per movie basis rather than by subscription. Prices are similar to brick and mortar stores. http://www.dvdovernight.com/ is one that I have used before. Pretty decent. There are more websites too. Google it.

Re:i wished they'd pay-as-you-go

[bblboy54]

I don't want to pay the monthly fee as in any given month I may only rent one movie -- or none at all.


Good point! I would really like it if Geico would start charging me for my auto insurance only for the months that I have an accident. That would really make my experience with Geico worth while.

Re:i wished they'd pay-as-you-go

[Anonymous Coward]

Can you justify your claim that a company can't make money off of somebody by charging only when he has a movie out? It would be difficult to make money using the current scheme of unlimited holding periods for movies, but there's no reason the original poster's needs can't be accomodated while also providing a profit to the rental company.

What I would like to see is some sort of hybrid system set up that more accurately reflects the costs of renting out movies. A charge for each movie to cover shipping and handling, and a charge for the period of time the movie is retained to cover required inventory costs. This way neither party has an incentive to game the system (customers trying to maximize movie turnover and rental companies delaying shipment to increase their profits). There will be fewer conflicts this way and nobody can complain.

Let's See...

[IronTek]

Which one did I just dump on Saturday: Blockbuster
Which one did I just pick up (again) : Netflix

If that represents the trend, the guy's wrong. If it doesn't, I just posted virtually useless info!

Re:Let's See...

[gEvil (beta)]

I eventually dropped em both and now just stick to the boatloads of movies my TiVo records (DirecTiVo with all the pay channels. There's a whole lotta great movies out there, especially on Sundance and IFC.)

Re:Let's See...

[IronTek]

That's certainly another good approach. But I have no TV, so it wouldn't work for me...

How I look at it.

[apparently]

With Blockbuster, my membership gets me 4 "free" in-store rentals a month for my $17.99 Blockbuster Online membership. So basically, the service is letting me make 4 rentals for $4.50 each (which is about the norm anywhere), and then in additional, I get "unlimited" Blockbuster Online rentals. As Blockbuster figures out how to further utilize their brick-and-mortar stores, I wonder how NetFlix will be able to compete against this?

Re:How I look at it.

[apparently]

^---in addition

Re:How I look at it.

[xs650]

I haven't been in a Blockbuster in 3 or 4 years because they are evil, at least they were 3 or 4 years ago.

Netfix, OTOH, seems to go out of their way to satisfy customers.

Re:How I look at it.

[nuzak]

> With Blockbuster, my membership gets me 4 "free" in-store rentals a month for my $17.99 Blockbuster Online membership.

To say nothing of the fact that you get to pick them at the time that you want them, rather than Netflix picking for you out of your queue and factoring in frequent-viewer penalties.

Netflix is virtually the antithesis of the impulse buy, and it's all because they have to mail out physical DVD's from a limited inventory. Blockbuster has existing physical stores (admittedly not cheap, but they can hold a whole lot in a small space) AND in some areas they have a pay-per-view service with cable operators.

The little rental place downstairs from me rents DVD's for $2 for a 3-day rental. I'd have to watch five movies a month from netflix to beat that with their one-at-a-time $10/month package, and I really don't believe that their turnaround is THAT good.

Still not as good as DVDStation in the Metreon was. $1/day for as long as you wanted to rent it. Shame they're all but out of business now though (I think they have one kiosk left somewhere out in the avenues)

Re:How I look at it.

[Anonymous Coward]

If you rip them to watch later and put them back in the mail, you can get 24 discs in one month on the 3 out program. I just tested it for April.

Re:How I look at it.

[Moofie]

Um, Netflix sure didn't satisfy me. Their stealth throttling policy lost them my business many years ago, before they acknowledged that they throttle their service.

Had they simply been up-front about it, there would have been no issue. However, a queue of 40+ movies, all on "delayed availability", with nothing shipping to me, told me they didn't want my money anymore.

Re:How I look at it.

[PortHaven]

I received a $10 gift card to Blockbuster. It took me over an hour find two movies. Essentially, every movie I wanted to see was out of stock. In the end, I didn't rent anything. Rather, I bought two used movies "I Robot" and I forget what else.

So, I don't think I'd find those in store rentals of much use. Sure, there may be a film that me and a bunch of friends might want to watch right this moment...and be willing to run out to the rental store to get it. But I'd wager all the copies of said film will be rented out. At least that last few times I went to Blockbuster that was always the case.

At least with Netflix I have a steady flow. I also get to watch a lot of TV shows I miss. I've got the 5 disc program and seldom do I not have something to watch. With 5 discs it's pretty good. Just make sure you mix you queue up so you always have something lighthearted, something action and something dramatic. Plus your series filler (currently ST:DS9 for me) *lol*

Re:How I look at it.

[jandrese]

In-store coupons for BB are pretty worthless where I live. BBs in-store selection is pathetic (almost completely lacking in older movies, even cult classics), and greater than 50% of the store is checked out pretty much all of the time. That's the reason I got Netflix in the first place, because it was usually the case that BB didn't have any movie that I was even vaguely interested in seeing. The small handfull of cult classics they had were always checked out, and they seemed to stock huge numbers of horrible movies (that stupid ocean liner horror movie stands out in my mind with a full wall of copies with disks behind them surrounded by a sea of checked out (better) movies).

All it took was BB screwing me on one late fee--got to the store around 11:55 or so, but had to stand outside waiting for the guy to finish his work on the door (apparently some punks had vandalized it the night before) before I could get in. Got in the store at a touch after 12 and got hit with a late fee because I was after the 12:00 time limit. The manager was insistant that I should have just gone earlier to drop it off too. Needless to say, that's the last time I've ever visited BB. I can't remember if I even paid that late fee.

Re:How I look at it.

[joshsisk]

The little rental place downstairs from me rents DVD's for $2 for a 3-day rental. I'd have to watch five movies a month from netflix to beat that with their one-at-a-time $10/month package, and I really don't believe that their turnaround is THAT good.

I watch about 12 movies a month from netflix on average, sometimes as much as 15 or 16. My movies generally arrive to them the day after i mail them, and i have a new movie the next day. Their turnaround is pretty good if you live near one of their warehouses.

Re:How I look at it.

[szrachen]

I found that to be a great deal as well. However, I also found that some months I really didn't feel like I needed any more movies than the ones that I got online (and that was when they only gave out 1 rental a month). I've since switched to Netflix because I didn't want to pay $17.99 for the 4 extra movies when I hardly need more than 2 at a time and don't necessarily need the in-store movies. I would guess that the vast majority of people are probably in the same boat.

I guess the way I see it, here is your decision:

Do you watch 3 or more movies a month?

• If Yes, continue...
• If No, just go to the movie store...

Do you need to get a movie at any time on a whim as long as you're alright with driving to the movie store and paying a little extra?

• If Yes, Blockbuster Online is probably better for you.
• If No, Netflix is probably better for you. Be patient grasshoppa.

Other considerations

• I have had better luck getting working discs from Netflix
• The friends recommendation system is pretty nice on Netflix (I don't recall if BBO had this)
• You may set up individual family member queues on Netflix

Re:How I look at it.

[nuzak]

I thought BB did away with late fees, or was that just for their subscription thing? I remember getting screwed on late fees too. Their selection was ... adequate.

If I could effectively download the movie, I'd use that in a flash. Netflix wouldn't even be a consideration. In fact, I'd actually support strong DRM for downloadable movies, proviso that it doesn't screw up my playback hardware or dictate how and when I watch a movie that I purchased outright. But of course I ask too much. I may as well be asking for a second helping of gruel, lowly little pissant nobody consumer that I am.

Re:How I look at it.

[Anonymous Coward]

However, a queue of 40+ movies, all on "delayed availability", with nothing shipping to me, told me they didn't want my money anymore.

Right you are. Why would they want your money when it is totally obliterated by the cost of doing business with you?

They made a choice. You made a choice. And you both rode off into the sunset.

Re:How I look at it.

[Anonymous Coward]

no need to mix up your one queue. Just create queues for lighthearted, action and drama.

Re:How I look at it.

[Blakey Rat]

What you're missing is that Blockbuster.com ALSO gives you a steady flow.

Here's how it works. Blockbuster.com = 3 DVDs at a time, unlimited rentals a month. PLUS, you get coupons you can use in-store if you want for free. (The coupons, BTW, work for video game rentals also.)

So you get your mailed movies, then if you suddenly feel in the mood to watch something else, you can print out a coupon and walking in to your local Blockbuster and rent away. It really is a good deal.

Re:How I look at it.

[Slashdot Junky]

I suspect that Blockbuster's brick-and-mortor stores will begin closing as their customer base converts to their Netflix copycat. Inevidable cost cutting will close the stores that aren't sufficiently profitable, and due to this, the rental coupons will lose value in many markets. The stores will probably be allowed to float for a while until Blockbuster has taken enough customers from Netflix.

Re:How I look at it.

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, that's what Blockbuster wants you to think. Unfortunately, the reality is quite different. I live about a 3 minute walk from the nearest Blockbuster, yet I can't see myself ever entering the store again. Pick a movie at random, and you have about a 98% chance that movie won't be available at your local blockbuster, unless its the release du jour. My wife and I used to spend an hour or so in their store and end up leaving empty-handed.

Since joining Netflix, we've always got something we want to watch. There is never any need to dispute any charges, because Netflix is a straight charge every month. On the other hand, Blockbuster charged my credit card when I had already paid a late fee and then refused to give me anything other than store credit. They also charged me late fees when items were not even late.

Re:How I look at it.

[Blakey Rat]

Holy crap.

One more time. BLOCKBUSTER MAILS DVD TO YOU, JUST LIKE NETFLIX DOES. The in-store rentals are a bonus.

This article isn't talking about Blockbuster STORES competing with Netflix, it's talking about Blockbuster ONLINE completing with Netflix. Criminy.

Re:How I look at it.

[whoop]

No late fees at Blockbuster stores these days. If you have it something like one week past when it was due, they charge you as buying the movie. Still, you can get some of the refunded if you return it, less some restocking fee or something. They have an automated system phone a few days before they charge you though.

I routinely use my free rentals and take several days late before I remember to return them without any problems.

Re:How I look at it.

[mikefe]

(apparently some punks had vandalized it the night before)

And you now know why they vandalized...

Re:How I look at it.

[Moofie]

Again: Had they not sold me "Rent as many movies as you want for $Foo/month!" and said "We'll rent you movies on our schedule for $3/each", I might have not bothered with them in the first place.

It's not my responsibility to make their business model work. It's their responsibility to provide me with a service that I like if they want my money.

The issue was the secrecy. They didn't come out and say "You've rented too many movies!" they just told me "Well, golly! Looks like none of the movies you want to see are available! What an unfortunate coincidence."

I'm pretty satisfied with GreenCine right now. Similar system, less bullshit. They seem quite content to take my money.

Re:How I look at it.

[jandrese]

Actually, my local BB dropped out of that no-late-fees thing. I noticed the sign on their door (they're locaed right next to the ABC store). Now, I'm willing to grant that my local store is probably worse than most, but it's not like I have any other video store within easy biking distance (next one is ~12 miles away). The Mom and Pop video stores are all long dead in my area. The only thing that's even close is the all Spanish language video store.

Hmm

[Poromenos1]

Hot chicks at the counter?

Re:Hmm

[desenz]

Not at my blockbuster. Consider yourself lucky.

Re:Hmm

[Poromenos1]

I live in Greece, we have these sort of ATMs for DVDs here.

Re:Hmm

[ConsumerOfMany]

Do they charge you a $1.50 just for the luxury of paying 5 more bucks for the movie.....

Re:Hmm

[Greatmoose]

We've got those machines here in Texas, too. My wife and I use 'em all the time. $1 a day per movie, and they typically have a pretty good selection. The machine looks a lot like a vending machine, except its got a touch screen. They're pretty cool, and the best part is they're EVERYWHERE. Grocery stores, Wal-Marts, shopping malls, etc...

I don't want either of them to "win"

[hellfire]

I want both of them to keep fighting it out... for a very long time.

Because when video rental services compete, I win.

Three cheers for competition!

Re:I don't want either of them to "win"

[nomadic]

Not necessarily; it's entirely possible for two companies to compete each other into oblivion, leaving us with no delivery service. Remember Kozmo/Urbanfetch?

Re:I don't want either of them to "win"

[Mewtwo]

But with the way the REAL world works, one will eventually buy out the other, prices shoot way up, and 99.9% of people accept it, pay the higher price (like with Microsoft), and move on. The outspoken 0.1% just post on Slashdot.

Re:I don't want either of them to "win"

[sfjoe]

Because when video rental services compete, I win.


Yeah, but I wish just once a corporation would decide to compete on quality or service instead of competing strictly on price. I'd happily pay a few extra bucks to not have to deal with the assholes that work at Blockbuster.

Re:I don't want either of them to "win"

[Anonymous Coward]

To paraphrase The Fonz:

Two firms does not a perfect competition make - amundo. We're just as likely to see Netflix and Blockbuster become an oligopoly, if they cannot be considered one already.

What about Redbox?

[Sentryp]

http://www.redbox.com/ They have some they everone else doesn't... Cheap pay as you go rentals. And you can get fries with that!

Re:What about Redbox?

[Jonboy X]

Wow, that looks pretty cool. How's the selection? Is it just the DVD that the kiosk happens to contain when you wander by?

Re:What about Redbox?

[Anonymous Coward]

The box contains approximately 30 DVDs, all of which all new(ish) releases.

It is .99 a day, up to $25 at which point you own the DVD. You pay by CC, validate your billing zip code, and then emails you a receipt. It remembers your card number/email address combination, so you only enter it once. My only issue with the whole thing is that I always end up buying food...

Other than that, I've never had any problems at all.

Plus, Use these codes for one night's free rental,
Sunday through Thursday, during these periods.

MAY 1 THRU 4: LAST
MAY 7 THRU 11: BIG
MAY 14 THRU 18: CALL
MAY 21 THRU 25: CHEAP

Re:What about Redbox?

[Tinn-Can]

Redbox is awesome... HEB here in Texas does some crappy nock off but the redbox interface is a lot better. Too bad they arn't everywhere... McDonalds needs to go nationwide with it already.. they would get a lot more of my money... I just want to watch the move not buy the damn thing... $5 blockbuster rentals are nuts...

Re:What about Redbox?

[MasterOfMagic]

That's a good thing - if you have a Redbox near you. Unfortunatly, despite living in a fairly large college town, there aren't any around. NetFlix has a shipping facility a few miles away from my place and I get my movies quickly.

Re:What about Redbox?

[Anonymous Coward]

Did you sign up just to post that comment, Mr. Astroturf?

Blockbuster's New Releases

[Anonymous Coward]

I got fed up with turn around time with netflix and went with blockbuster. A month later I'm now back with netflix. Blockbuster will not send you a new release until it has been released for 90 days. Netflix will have the movie on your doorstep release day. After renting virtually limitless movies for a year New Releases are all I have to look forward to. Blockbuster not shipping new releases to force store visits completely contradicts what people are looking for.

Until blockbuster can realize that they need to stop putting all their weight behind their stores, netflix will always be the superior choice.

Re:Blockbuster's New Releases

[lucabrasi999]

Blockbuster will not send you a new release until it has been released for 90 days

That is simply not true. BB shipped Chronicles of Narnia to me three days after it was released on DVD. And, BB also shipped Charlie and the Chocolate Factory to me nine days after it was released. (BTW, "Charlie" was a better movie than I expected. )You just have to know how to search for the new relases on BB. New releases are not placed on the main BB page after you log in. When you know there is a new release out there that you want to see, you have to search for the exact movie by title. It will show up on your search window and you can add it to your queue.

And, slightly OT. The reason I went with BB over Netflix was that at the time I joined, BB was cheaper. Not sure if that is still true.

Re:Blockbuster's New Releases

[Anonymous Coward]

With services like Comcast's OnDemand and its growing library plus thier free shows, even shows not yet on DVD, Blockbuster and NetFlix on-line rental services are at best, a temporary solution until video on demand services are available to more customers.

NetFlix is not worth the price unless you rent enough movies to offset the monthly free, then they identify you as a frequent renting customer and throttle your new releases.

Both NetFlix and Blockbuster have issues with DVD quality for thier older movies. The thin envelopes just don't protect the media well enough during shipping and the older movies I rented werer more frquently scratched or broken.

Video on demand is a much more cost effective video delivery model. As soon as the services reach more markets and thier librarys grow the on-line video rental servies will fade away like the mail order catalog buisness.

Re:Blockbuster's New Releases

[Jack Sparrow]

Blockbuster will not send you a new release until it has been released for 90 days.

?? You need to double check that. Blockbuster shipped me "Walk the Line" 2 or 3 days after it was released.
  If they had not, I would have used my in-store coupon to get the DVD that weekend. Blockbuster works out much better than Netflix for me.

Re:Blockbuster's New Releases

[Anonymous Coward]

Not true. I get all new releases in a day or two. I've never heard this of this "90 day" rule anywhere. Sounds like someone trying to spread FUD about Blockbuster.

Re:Blockbuster's New Releases

[Anonymous Coward]

I had walk the line on my list for weeks. After it had been released for 2 weeks I called them and asked what exactly "short wait" meant if it had been 2 weeks. The BB employee stated they wait 90 days before shipping new releases. That friday I canceled my account and reactivated Netflix, Tuesday morning I watched Walk the line..

Re:Blockbuster's New Releases

[Jack Sparrow]

After it had been released for 2 weeks I called them and asked what exactly "short wait" meant if it had been 2 weeks. The BB employee stated they wait 90 days before shipping new releases.

That is strange. I hope it is not dependent on geographical location.

I double checked just now. The DVD released on Feb 28th and I received it on March 7th ( I was planning to rent it from the store so had 2-3 days delay in adding it to my queue). Either that employee did not know the policy or the policy varies in areas with high demand.

I once had NetFlix

[robogun]

I found eDonkey significantly outperforms Netflix, at least for me.

I was once a subscriber, but I dropped Netflix back when they went from $19.99 to $23.99/mo.

Re:I once had NetFlix

[DevanJedi]

Wait, what? When did Netflix have a price increase? I have been a member for 4 years and only once has my rate changed- it decreased.

Re:I once had NetFlix

[Anonymous Coward]

I found the public library outperforms Netflix. No new releases, but plenty of selection. And it *might* keep the FBI from knocking on my door.

Re:I once had NetFlix

[ivan256]

If you canceled, you should be getting the bi-monthly e-mails inviting you to come back for $0.50 less than the previous mail...

The last one I got was 3 movies at a time for $11.99/month. Too bad I don't want to subscribe again... Practically half of the movies I mailed back to them never arrived and had to be reported as missing.

Re:I once had NetFlix

[robogun]

I can't find the email regarding the price increase but in June 2004, they emailed a new offer trying to get me back, regarding a Netflix Economy Program for $14.99 or the Standard Program for $21.99. The limitations on the Economy was two DVDs out at a time and four per month.

Needless to say, no thanks.

Re:I once had NetFlix

[DevanJedi]

3-DVDs at a time is 17.99 and they go all the way down to 9.99 for 1-at-a-time and up to 47.99 for 8. As I said, prices have only gone down since I joined 4 years ago.

blockbuster in-store rental coupons

[MORTAR_COMBAT!]

they are just a pain in the ass. they come as e-mail links, you visit the web page, print it out, pick it up from the printer, then have to remember to bring the coupon when you go to the store. in the several months that i was a blockbuster online dvd rental subscriber, i didn't use a single in-store rental voucher. if, on the other hand, they had simply tied the coupons to my blockbuster account, i would have used them. and perhaps remained a customer. but as it was, the value-add just wasn't there.

Re:blockbuster in-store rental coupons

[FerretFrottage]

I agree that they should just tie them to your account and when you go to check out have them automatically applied. Please suggest to them that they implement something to that affect; I have and maybe if more people would do so we could enjoy our virtual coupons. As it is now though, it's not to hard to print out a coupon (unless you don't have a printer---that could be a problem). When I update my queue, I'll print out any new coupons and just put them in my car. That way when I stop in I already have them ready to go.

Re:blockbuster in-store rental coupons

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, you're right. The in-store rental coupons that Netflix gives out are much, much handier.

Oh, wait...

My Thoughts

[MBCook]

I really REALLY like Netflix. I've had them for two years or so and they are fantastic. I haven't tried Blockbuster and I don't intend to because, frankly, I hate the company. Their stores have gone down in quality and the prices have gone WAY up in last few years (specifically video games). All that said, I'd like to comment on something from the article:

"Since the launch of Blockbuster's online dvd rental program in August 2004, they have added 1.3 million customers, but over the last 6 months alone, Netflix was able to add almost as many subscribers. Each customer that Netflix acquired represents pure growth for the company, but of Blockbuster's 1.3 million subscribers, how many of them represent former retail store customers? "

The last few times I've been in my local Blockbuster, they have been doing hard sells on their online service to every customer. They talk about how convenient it is, how much it will save you, blah blah blah.

I seriously doubt Blockbuster has gotten very many new customers at all to their online service. I think most of them were conversions from in-store customers.

Re:My Thoughts

[Anonymous Coward]

I think what will really break the log jam is when we can rent movies online and play then on TV. We are just now seeing some sight that sell/rent high def video but they really have not perfected the interface yet. I think when we can use a piece of equipment like a medialounge to access this type of content we will really see this area take off.

Re:My Thoughts

[okmnji]

I originally was going to sign up with Netflix. And I tried, I really did. But their website completely turned me off. I encountered two major problems signing up, which may or may not have been a temporary issue. When I tried signing up for Blockbuster, there were no issues.

First, I registered on Netflix's site, gave e-mail address and password I wanted. I get the email with the "is this really your email?" confirmation link. "Congratulations, your account is activated!" Then it logs me out. Ok, so I click the log-me-back-in link, fill in the email and password I put in not 2 minutes before and... "Sorry, we have no record of an account with that email address." WTF? Ok, so maybe I typed the password in wrong... try again, same thing. Try to change the password, and am sure to input it correctly this time, click the link in the your-password-has-been-changed email, and I'm logged in again. I log out to test it, and I get, you guessed it: "Sorry, we have no record of an account with that email address." Using the email link logs me in fine, but I cannot log in "normally".

Second, I tried to finish the registration, with mailing address, payment, etc. I'm already wary at this point because it seemed Netflix couldn't properly implement a simple login form. But I fill in the information anyway, click submit, and... "We're sorry, the postal address you gave is invalid." EXCUSE ME? I think I know my own fscking address. Nobody else has any problems delivering to that very same address. For the next five minutes, I'm wondering if perhaps Netflix hired chimpanzees to handle account creation.

Compare to Blockbuster. I go on the site, give email and the password I want, and it recognizes it without a problem. I give them my address, and it doesn't give me any "Your address doesn't exist!" nonsense. I finish registering in 30 seconds. I don't give a shit about the in-store rentals, the supposedly smaller library, or that the envelopes are white and yellow instead of red. I just care that signing up and logging into Blockbuster didn't piss me off, and doing the same for Netflix did.

Re:My Thoughts

[crackspackle]

I recently subscribed to Blockbuster online so that I could catch up with the current season of the Sopranos. Being impatient, I also started going to the store to get other episodes to piggy back between the arrival times of the ones I ordered online. Now I could have done the same thing with Netflix, but why would I choose to do that when I would not get any of the in store rebates ?

That aside, one thing I don't get it how Blockbuster handles their online orders. My understanding is that they are shipped from the closest brick and mortar store having the dvd. That seems terribly inefficient and error prone for them, even if it does make delivery times quicker. Of course, they have the advantage of being able to satisfy the walk-in customer and the online customer from the same stock. If they can continue to make it work, in the long run they will have the advantage over Netflix until such time as we can legally get movies over the 'net.

When that occurs, I would not expect Blockbuster to dissapear though. Nearly six years back they had already begun exploring online content delivery however the project fell through with the failure of Enron broadband.

I'm surprised the MPAA ....

[Anonymous Coward]

... isn't doing everything in their power to shut down netflix. Think about it, $15 bucks for unlimited amount of movies every month. I know several people who simply copy the movies and send them back and then watch at their leisure. It's far more cost effective and convenient than waiting forever for p2p downloads and weeding through the inevitable crap you get. There are people out there right now with HUGE libraries thanks to NetFlix.

Re:I'm surprised the MPAA ....

[Anonymous Coward]

Shhhh! you are going to ruin it for most of us Netflix subscribers.

Do you really think that anyone that supscribes to netflix does not copy the disc? Hell I even convert them to mpeg4 for use in a media server so I can have on-demand in my own way.

so be quiet! or netflix will start telling us we are bad people!

No Netflix stores around here.

[camperdave]

It's not about cheap. It's about convenience and spontaneity. Suppose some friends come over and we decide to watch a movie. We're not going to wait for one to arrive via mail. We're going to pop over to Blockbuster, grab a movie or two, some popcorn and sodapops and watch the movie right away. The only thing that is more convenient is video-on-demand/pay-per-view, but the selection is usually very limited.

Re:No Netflix stores around here.

[YrWrstNtmr]

Suppose some friends come over and we decide to watch a movie. We're not going to wait for one to arrive via mail.

And just because you use Netflix does not preclude doing a one-off rental at BB (or anywhere else) for something you have to have tonight.

Re:No Netflix stores around here.

[camperdave]

True... except for two points. Firstly, I don't plan my movie watching. I decide spontaneously whether or not I am going to rent a video. Secondly, this is a Netflix vs. Blockbuster thread. Choosing both is not playing by the rules [grin].

Re:No Netflix stores around here.

[bec1948]

Netflix, of course, doesn't have stores. But where I live, neither does Blockbuster. FWIW, Netflix especially caused my incredibly great local rental store to go out of business. So for my part of the world - Brookly Heights, in NYC - the options are pretty limited. For all intents and purposes running out to the store isn't that practicle. OTOH, I do have Netflix (3 movies at a time plan) plus several premium cable channels, plus the premium On-Demand channels plus the pay per view and pay per view on-demand channels, plus DVRs. We also have a couple of hundred DVDs we've bought. While we too suffer from the occasional 500 channels with nothing to watch syndrome, it's not a big issue. If worse comes to worse, I can surf the web or even read a book!. There is a trick to using these services. As has been mentioned, if you don't have the time to watch your little cache of films you don't see the price advantage of the subscription, so you have to turn over your films, or accept occasionally swallowing the month's fee. As for NetFlix throttling excessive use - I think that 11 or so a month figure is accurate - what's the problem? They're doing it, they say, to prevent copiers from getting masses of disks and copying them and perhaps bootlegging them. They're only protecting themselves from an exploitation attack that damages their business. They may also be getting pressure from the studios too. If you are watching a dozen movies a month with a plan that compensates them adequately, they won't bother you. I was going to say, "If you're watching a dozen movies a month, get a life!" But I watch far more than that myself. I think I have a life.

Re:No Netflix stores around here.

[HarvardAce]

And just because you use Netflix does not preclude doing a one-off rental at BB (or anywhere else) for something you have to have tonight.

Yes, except that if you have Blockbuster Online you get coupons for free in-store rentals (either 2 per month, valid for the whole month, or 1 per week, valid only for the week). Therefore, you can satisfy your spur-of-the-moment movie fix without paying anything extra.

Re:No Netflix stores around here.

[YrWrstNtmr]

I've had netfix for a long time. I tried BB for a couple of months, and even with the instore rentals included, NF was/is a better buy for me. More selection and faster return, even with the so-called throttling.

My son still gets an ocassional movie or game from BB, but our library at home is now large enough to fill the bill for a good instant selection.

On average, I'm paying $1.50/movie from NF.

Re:No Netflix stores around here.

[romeo_in_blk_jeans]

"Yes, except that if you have Blockbuster Online you get coupons for free in-store rentals (either 2 per month, valid for the whole month, or 1 per week, valid only for the week). Therefore, you can satisfy your spur-of-the-moment movie fix without paying anything extra."

I have never understood how paying a monthly fee equates to free. Free is only free if you don't pay for it. You are paying a monthly fee, therefore you are getting nothing free. You only call it free because Blockbuster propaganda has billed it to you this way and you have taken their marketing bait hook, line, and sinker. I'm not trying to be hostile. Just understand that you pay a monthly fee for those 2 in store vouchers. You're paying for them.

Re:No Netflix stores around here.

[Lumpy]

You are the not what Netflix wants as a customer. Most netflix customers are affluent and busy executives. Firstly, if you drive a BMW 7 series and are wearing a $3500.00 suit do you really want to go and smell some of those people at the Blockbuster? do you even have TIME to go there? They would rather go home and grab either from their recent purchases from Amazon or whatever netflix has arrived to watch in their home theatre when they have time. They also typically rent less than the 8-11 that the typical Netflix customer will get so they are a pure profit center for Netflix.

Netflix wants the professional with very little free time as a customer, not someone with an hour or more to blow to go and get things for a movie and then pick out a movie only to find it is sold out.

You are not their target customer, plain and simple. I do not drive a BMW (I drive a GEO!) nor do I wear an Armani Suit (I wear a 3.95 t-shirt and dirty ripped jeans) and I still do not have the time to screw around in a DVD rental place only to find that most of what I want is sold out. And almost every time I end up in line behind the 350 pound woman that has not bathed in days wearing a Nascar hat who is screaming at her kids.

no thanks. I'll stay with netflix, I have had my fill of movie rental places.

Re:No Netflix stores around here.

[HarvardAce]

Just understand that you pay a monthly fee for those 2 in store vouchers. You're paying for them.

Agreed, but you're completely missing the point. Free (as in beer) these days often means you are getting something additional for no extra cost, and this is exactly what is happening. While you can argue semantics and say that the $17.99/mo fee includes the cost of the B&M rentals and therefore they aren't free (and you wouldn't be wrong), you're missing the point that you are basically getting the same service as Netflix (for the same price), plus you are additionally getting the B&M rentals. You could either assign the costs proportionally (and say that the mail-order service is worth $10 and the two vouchers are worth $4 each), or you could argue that the mail-order service is worth $17.99 (this is the price that competitors have) and you are therefore getting those vouchers for $0, which is the same as free to me.

The bottom line is that assuming the mail-order aspects of both Blockbuster and Netflix are roughly equivalent (which is by no means certain -- my experiences with both lend that Blockbuster's service is actually better, but I am sure others have had the opposite experience), you are getting a considerable added value with the vouchers for the in-store rentals. If you go with the 1 a week service, you are basically getting $20 worth of vouchers (at $5/rental which is the rate at my local Blockbuster) for a $17.99/mo price, plus you're also getting the mail-order service.

If you want to be anal and say that you're not getting something free, then go ahead. For me, I'll stick with Blockbuster and my "free" vouchers because I'm getting considerable added value out of them.

the next progression

[LunaticTippy]

I used to use your primitive method. Now I skip the step of burning a dvd. I got a $15 tv-out graphics card, ran 50 foot composite/audio cables to my tv.

It looks good, I save time burning discs, and I don't have any more inexplicably ruined dvd-rw blanks. I don't know why it was happening, but I had about a 5% failure rate with each reuse.

Now I can show .avi or whatever on my tv without the SLOW process of converting to dvd compliant format, or watch visualizations with music, or change channels to see if my download is done, etc.

Re:the next progression

[drinkypoo]

I used to use your primitive method. Then I got an Xbox, and put XBMC on it. Voila! Great output (for SD anyway, which is all I have) and the convenience of being able to load content over the network, which means my TV and PC don't have to be close together. XBMC can even play VOBs over the network - not sure if it will play a VOB/IFO directory as a DVD with menus and all, but it plays DVDs off the drive just fine with the full feature set, so maybe. XBMC can play anything mplayer can play, provided you have the latest set of codecs.

Re:the next progression

[LunaticTippy]

Pretty cool. I considered wireless, but the cost difference was pretty big. I wasn't planning to buy a game box, so your combination wouldn't have helped me. Things are advancing rapidly enough I don't want to put much effort or money into it.

My friend wired his house for audio, ethernet, and coax a few years ago. It took him several weekends and thousands of dollars. (he installed a wiring panel with patch bay and everything) I'm glad I waited!

Re:the next progression

[drinkypoo]

I considered wireless, but the cost difference was pretty big. I wasn't planning to buy a game box, so your combination wouldn't have helped me. Things are advancing rapidly enough I don't want to put much effort or money into it.

I'm not using wireless, it's good old 10/100, plumbed through the area under the house (more convenient than the attic, when you can get to it.) I got about 2000 feet of cat5 for free, but the stuff is cheap to the point where for the average user, a decent crimper and a crappy (but passable) tester will cost more than the cable.

As for having a game box, you don't ever have to play a game on the thing. I have a whopping total of two games I consider worthwhile on the Xbox. It's spent well over 99% of its runtime (since I purchased it) being a media player. I got it used, myself, and put an 80 GB disk in it so it'd have room for console roms. :)

Re:the next progression

[LunaticTippy]

I mistakenly read network as wireless. I can't install cat5 at my house. It was built in 1896 and the walls are a nightmare. I stay out of them and hope for no more boiler leaks.

One fine day I'll be forced to rip them all out and replumb, rewire, and replaster everything. [gets depressed]

Blockbuster and Netflix each have their own issues

[hal2814]

Have you been to a Blockbuster lately? Buying DVDs has gotten pretty cheap while renting movies has only gotten more expensive. The $4.50 per rental they charge is about 1/3 to 1/4 the price it would cost to buy the movie outright. And game rentals are now in the neighborhood of $7 per game! That's just crazy when the used video game market is rapidly devaluing games. Most of Blockbuster's gaming library can be bought for $20 or less. Why spend $7 just to rent it for a week?

Then there's Netflix where I can't just go pick up any movie I want. I have to request it and have it shipped. And that only happens after they get back one of the earlier movies I rented from them. That's a minimum two day turnaround. And while it is nice that you can request Netflix movies from the comfort of your own home, the less scrupulous out there have discovered that you can download just about any movie you want in far less time than it would take Netflix to get it to your door. And on top of that, their "unlimited" rental model leaves a lot to be desired for those who don't rent very often. Their cheaper packages offer little enough that they're not a good deal.

My shipping history...

[PortHaven]

For 2006 I've kept a log of my movie rentals to track turn-around-times. I recorded when a movie is sent, est. arrival, actual arrival and when I I recorded when I return the movie and how long until they log it received. It's about a 1.3 days on avg to receive a movie and 2.2 days on average for Netflix to record it received. A total turn-around time of 3.5 days per film. Not too bad, consider they're utilizing the postal service. (Which in my area is notoriously poor in performance. A letter mailed 2 hours away can take 4 days + to be delivered.)

Re:My shipping history...

[es330td]

I hope that you take care to blame 100% of your delays on the USPS, at least right now. I have to live very close to the Netflix distribution center in Norcross, GA and have a 3 disc a month subscription. It is very, very rare that Netflix does not email me the day after I put a disc in the mail that they have received it and the follow up disc is normally in my mailbox the next delivery day. 99% of my discs have two day turnaround. While I realize that not everyone gets to live this close to a center, in my experience (and I have had Netflix since '93) Netflix is turning around my discs as fast as it receives them. The ONLY time I have ever experienced a delay is when once of the older, less mainstream movies happens to get shipped in which case I am assuming that it is coming from farther away because the "shipping" email still comes immediately. I know throttling exists for high volume members but we have had as many as 11 in one month in the past.

Re:My shipping history...

[PortHaven]

I live in New Haven, CT. Our postal service SUCKS!!!!

Consider that a letter mailed across town took the same number of days for delivery as a letter mailed from London, U.K. That says something about our local inefficiency in our postal system. And I agree, everyone talks about throttling but I've not really experienced, except with a few hit movies. However, Netflix has stated openly that when it comes to hit movies. New members get first dibs. And I am fine with that. I understand that sometimes when a movie is released the initial demand exceeds stock. (The same is common for Blockbuster stores...in fact, in their case all the new hit movies tend to be empy shelves of placards.) With Netflix, in choosing who is first to receive, they've decided to give precedence to the new members in the queue. Understandable...what company wouldn't?

That said, I am an avid fan of Netflix. So much so, a year ago when everyone was saying they were going to go under in the face of Blockbuster, Amazon and Walmart....I actually BOUGHT stock!

It about doubled in value too.... ;)

Re:My shipping history...

[HarvardAce]

It's about a 1.3 days on avg to receive a movie and 2.2 days on average for Netflix to record it received. A total turn-around time of 3.5 days per film.

I have Blockbuster Online in Southwestern Connecticut, and the distribution center is within the same city. In all but one case (out of about 30 movies so far) I've gotten the movie the next postal day after the day they ship it. I've never had Blockbuster take more than one day to acknowledge receipt of a movie I mailed back, and on several occasions they have even received the movie the same day I mailed it. Additionally, they have always mailed me a new movie the same day they received the last one. I usually watch a movie at night, mail it the next morning, and a new movie will be waiting for me when I get back from work two days later. The lag for me comes from the rate I watch movies, it's definitely not from their side.

Re:My shipping history...

[talasian]

*laugh* you've got nothing on us up here...(ALASKA)
at best, it takes 3-4 days for the turnaround on a movie with netflix.
1.5-2 down, and 1.5-2 back up...

They are both toast in the long run - here's why:

[zerofoo]

On-demand movies are here to stay - they are more convenient than rentals, and as the selection gets better, a nice way to watch older movies that your local video store may not stock. Hard drive space is cheap, and soon it will be possible for cable companies to warehouse thousands of titles that you can watch whenever you want.

Content providers aren't too thrilled with this setup since the carriers (cable companies) get a cut of every viewing.....but it is a deal with the devil they must make - why you ask?

Piracy. Physical media is bad for the war on piracy. Everyone I know makes copies of their Blockbuster and Netflix rentals. Shipping physical media around the world is no way to control the duplication of that content.

The RIAA and the MPAA want to make this an on-demand world - one where you don't possess physical media. You consume the content streamed to you in a protected, DRM'ed out the wazoo, format.

The final nail in the coffin for physical media will be wireless - once wireless speeds are up to the challenge, you'll be able to stream music and movies to your portable devices and the car. It will only be a matter of time before the "lazy" media-consuming public stops collecting physical media and streams everything.

Then the issue of piracy via "media copying" almost completely goes away. Sure it might take 10 years, but it will happen. The hardcore guys will still figure out a way to capture the streams, but if the streaming world is easy enough, available enough, and cheap enough, most people won't bother.

-ted

Screw those guys....

[Lxy]

Support your local library. Membership is free, and usually you can borrow all the latest movies and music at no cost. There are late fees, but nothing near what Blockbuster et al charges.

Re:Screw those guys....

[antifoidulus]

And I also here they have these strange, pictureless things made out of very thin strips of wood with some type of text printed on them. :P

Re:Screw those guys....

[bmalia]

And I also here they have these strange, pictureless things made out of very thin strips of wood with some type of text printed on them

I heard about those. They say they're much better than DVD's. But I can't seem to find a player for one anywhere.

Re:Screw those guys....

[antifoidulus]

As well as helpful librarians who will point out the difference between "here" and "hear"

Re:Screw those guys....

[Peyna]

And I also here they have these strange, pictureless things made out of very thin strips of wood with some type of text printed on them. :P

Paper is not "thin strips of wood," it's "wood chopped into very tiny pieces glued back together in a flat sheet," which sometimes might have cotton or other fiber as a secondary ingredient.

Re:Screw those guys....

[RosenSama]

Support your local library

What am I already doing with my taxes? But seriously, is it realy helping my library if I borrow from them instead of paying for the same thing elsewhere? Are they not better off if I leave their inventory there for people who aren't willing to pay for Netflix? Honestly, I would have thought them better off (and me not) if I pay my taxes, but don't use the services I'm entitled to. Or is there some sort of thing where their funding will shrivel if the demand isn't there?

Re:Screw those guys....

[Hogwash McFly]

You forgot 'and bleached to fuck'.

MOD PARENT UP

[MustardMan]

Not only does blockbuster online (the thing being compared with netflix) do everything netflix does, you also get coupons for various in-store promotions, as well as free in-store rentals included in the cost of your rental program. I get two free in-store rentals each month, which means if I decide on a whim that I want to see a certain flick, I can pick it up without paying any extra on top of my monthly subscription fee. I still have my 3-out-at-a-time movies to pick from as well. BB does everything netflix does, plus some.

Re:MOD PARENT UP

[joshsisk]

Except that their web interface leaves a LOT to be desired. Netflix is really easy to use, get recommendations, and the whole "friends" interface is great... does BB have something to compete with this? I wouldn't switch just based on how useful the friends interface is in seeing if you really would like a film... You can see what all your friends thought about a film, including a short review. It's very useful.

Re:MOD PARENT UP

[Turken]

Yeah... so I can then spend 40 minutes driving and $5 in gas every week to go cash in the coupon at the nearest blockbuster store. Livig in the middle of nowhere is a really good reason to get either service, but I found that I just liked netflix a little better.

Of course, if only Blockbuster had a subscription movies+games option, I'd be all over dumping netflix&gamefly to have a single entertainment channel.

Re:MOD PARENT UP

[rkcallaghan]

Yeah... so I can then spend 40 minutes driving and $5 in gas every week to go cash in the coupon at the nearest blockbuster store. Livig in the middle of nowhere is a really good reason to get either service, but I found that I just liked netflix a little better.

The purpose isn't to run to the store every week, but rather to keep the coupons ready for when you need them. When you and your friends want to watch a movie TONIGHT, the coupon is the way to go. With Netflix, you're still going to either a) pay for the movie or b) be disappointed and make other plans.

The coupon is the entire reason I switched from Netflix->Blockbuster Online; and it proves its worth every month.

~Rebecca

Re:MOD PARENT UP

[Pollardito]

i'm sticking with Netflix because of the dramatic change that they caused in the market for rentals. clearly Netflix wouldn't be offering these prices if there wasn't a Blockbuster, but if Blockbuster can sink (or buy) Netflix it will surely be back to $4 "3 night rentals" that are really 2 nights and the following morning. if Blockbuster were a far better deal, i'd switch back to them (i used to have the in-store unlimited offer, but i watched everything worthwhile in the entire store), but while it's as close as this i'm going to stick with the one that created this price competition.

Re:MOD PARENT UP

[MCraigW]

Not only does blockbuster online (the thing being compared with netflix) do everything netflix does...

Does blockbuster allow you to have multiple queues with a differing log-on for each? I have a queue for each of my two children, and one for my wife, they each can have one DVD out at a time, adding up to the three out at a time. This works well for us. I typically enjoy the movies that my son selects, and occasionally like the ones my wife selects. Also, I can put a movie on any of their queues, since I have the master log-on, and I know all the usernames and passwords anyway. So, does Blockbuster have this same feature?

Re:MOD PARENT UP

[Anonymous Coward]

I've used both in the past and I can tell you that they are not the same. When I went back to renting movies recently, I went to netflix. The reason is very simple:

Netflix has a MUCH bigger movie selection.

Period. If all you care about is the mainstream hit movies, then blockbuster is fine. But if you want to go beyond that even a little, you'll run into the limits of blockbuster's movie library quickly.

Netflix has a nicer website too, but that's not as relevant.

Why I switched

[DarkFencer]

Until this morning I was a Netflix user. I had cancelled this morning and subscribed with Blockbuster before reading this article. The problem with Netflix is getting 'new' movies. I am a medium level user with Netflix (I get a good amount but I'm not one of the more heavy users) but anytime I want something relatively new it is in "Long Wait" for weeks or even months.

Even if Blockbuster makes me wait a while for the newer movies then I can still get the one free in-store movie a week, as well as satisfy the impulse rentals that my wife and I want.

Re:Why I switched

[rushiku]

While I have had selections that were 'long wait' movies, I can hardly describe the experience as 'everytime'. Are (were) you trying to rent milti-disk TV shows? (which I'd imagine they have far fewer copies of than, say, the latest hit movie)

Re:Why I switched

[romeo_in_blk_jeans]

Free? I thought you were paying a monthly fee and, included for that monthly fee, were two in-store vouchers.

I don't see anything "free" here. Just a lot of Blockbuster marketing that's performing excellently at it's intended job. In fact, most of the posts here mention "free in store rentals". If the best thing that BB has to offer are "free" (paid for by your monthly subscription fee, aka "not free") rentals, why bother with blockbuster at all?

I'm curious: Does BB online have the same selection as Netflix?

Re:Why I switched

[DarkFencer]

If I rent TV shows I never have a problem. It seems that the times I want something 'mass market' I have to wait forever for them. It was rare that I would queue something more then a week before it was released so that (as another poster pointed out) may have been some of the problem.

On the other hand I've had Chronicles of Narnia (the new one, not the BBC production) in my queue since the week it came out and that has been MONTHS already. Perhaps because I keep moving things around in my queue it resets the timer for waits? Either way it is annoying. Now I can take my free printed DVD rental coupon to my local Lackluster video and pick it up now.

I already do see what I'm missing from Netflix. The split queues my wife and I used to have (one at a time for her, one for me, and one out at a time for us togther) will have to be manually done since Blockbuster doesn't let you split queues.

Re:Why I switched

[Blakey Rat]

Blockbuster gave me both Ray, the newest Harry Potter, and Walk The Line the very same day they were released to retail outlets. (And not just shipped that day, but in my mailbox.) They're great about new movies.

Re:Why I switched

[Anonymous Coward]

When company 1 offers a product for $X, and company 2 offers that same product PLUS a bonus item for the same $X, it's reasonably fair to say the bonus item is free. It may not be 100% accurate, but it's a reasonable claim to make.

That Was A Nice Update

[Anonymous Coward]

12 months later ... Nothing's changed. One person thinks their vision is still right. The other still thinks their's is right.

It's like watching a soap opera. I'll be sure to tune again another year from now to find out, yet again, that nothing has changed, except that one has fallen down an elevator shaft while experiencing menopause, and the other will have an illegimate child being held for ransom by their estranged spouse on an abondonded oil platform in the Atlantic Ocean.

I think that Blockbuster has an edge

[BrentRJones]

If you are comparing the Blockbuster Mail DVD service to Netflix then you get an additional benefit of 1 free local STORE DVD rental each week. Netflix can't do that. On the other hand, I suspect that Blockbuster has significant employee theft. They sure have high employee turnover.

I often don't watch my rentals for several weeks! I canceled once then rejoined Blockbuster and my queue remained in tact.

People, they're talking about ONLINE rentals...

[holysin]

From the comments I've seen so far, people are either not reading the flipping SUMMARY of the article, or else are off their meds. Blockbuster has an online rental presence, they offer a few less movies then netflix (but then again they offer some movies that netflix doesn't so it's a bit of a wash.) but in my experience, after being a netflix subscriber on and off for the last 4 years. I've now completely switched to blockbuster. The shipping times (for my area) are at least as fast as netflix, however blockbuster registers the movie as received, and sends out the next movie in roughly half the time as netflix. That coupled with the 1 "free" instore coupon each week (for those popular movies that are released on tuesday and go to "short wait" imediately there after) and I am now only a blockbuster subscriber. The fact that netflix is suing blockbuster didn't hurt matters. Personally I think netflix has as much of a claim against blockbuster as say McDonalds has against Burger King.

Either way, it's nice to be able to rent online, and I hope with more competition us consumers will see better service and lower prices.

Cheers

Re: you might want to check this out, then

[Anonymous Coward]

I've never used it, but here it is, streaming movies from $2:
GreenCine Video-on-Demand

I do use GreenCine's Netflix-like DVD rental service. That's how I know about their VOD service.

Amazon Rentals

[TwentyQuestions]

I think Amazon will have the lead in a year or two. It has had good success in the UK and they are preparing to launch similar services in the US.

They have more than enough stock, and shipping centers. I think they can finally do online rentals right.

Re:Amazon Rentals

[Anonymous Coward]

Amazon is not even the top one or two service in the UK. They are at best a distant 3rd and it looks very clear that they have chosen to ignore the market.

Netflix has addressed the "Amazon threat" repeatedly and directly. There is no evidence that Amazon will enter the market. It would take upwards of $1B just to enter and compete with little opportunity for success. Evidence WalMart's withdrawl and Blockbuster's meager performance despite spending $500M+ on the service.

Don't know where you get your facts.

Why I'm Loving NetFlix

[JoshDM]

Selection. Wife likes Christian Bale (after seeing him in Batman Begins). I went to 4 local Blockbusters and only one of them had Equilibrium, and it was a $20 copy for sale. Signed up for NetFlix. Not only is there a gigantic selection, but I don't have to worry about those so-called "edited for content Wal-Mart style" movies that Lacklustre is rumored to be pushing.

Re:Why I'm Loving NetFlix

[sandmaninator]

It's no rumor. I've seen these two movies at blockbuster:
Man bites dog
Y tu mama tambien
I bought the movies afterward and got to see the scenes that Blockbuster (or someone at least) edited out.

Re:Why I'm Loving NetFlix

[Anonymous Coward]

Man where do you live? All the Blockbusters in my area get anymore is unrated versions of everything.

I went with Blockbuster

[donutello]

I had been a Netflix subscriber in the past and hadn't had any problems with them. For me the determining factor was that Blockbuster, for the same monthly fee, gives me additional coupons for in-store rentals. It's nice to be able to pop into the store and rent something you want to watch right then once in a while. It also allows me to save money by being on a lower priced plan.

Turnaround time has been identical for me in Seattle. I pop the DVD in the mail one day, Netflix/Blockbuster got/gets them the next day and I have a new DVD in the mail the day after that.

Re:They are both toast in the long run - here's wh

[djhertz]

I'd have to agree. I look at it like buying music CDs. I used to buy a CD for $15, but then I found Napster, and then peer to peer, but it became a hassle and I didn't want to put the time in. Then there was Itunes, but the price was about the same as just buying the CD. Then I found (on Slashdot) http://www.allofmp3.com./ I don't mind paying for the stuff, I just don't want to spend a lot, or have it be a hassle, there has to be a happy medium for movies. I think it's gonna be when cable companies do movies on demand for:

$20 a month watch all you want or $1 a day watch all you want, or 25 cents watch that movie all day. Something along those lines would get you a lot of customers.

Way to seemingly get around it.

[Anonymous Coward]

I have found that it seems if you quit your membership for a month or two and then restart it, you will get your movies quickly again.

The Longterm Winner....

[DavidD_CA]

The longterm winner is the one that can first come to market with a downloadable delivery method.

It doesn't have to be super fast (you can choose your download in the morning and have it ready tonight), it doesn't have to be unlimited (people will pay $2-4 like they currently do), and it doesn't have to be open (most people don't care about DRM). It just has to be mostly reliable, current blockbuster hits, and very very easy to use.

Whoever that is (Netflix, Hollywood, Blockbuster, Comcast, or NewCompanyYetToBeNamed) will most certainly reign while the others scramble to catch up.

Re:The Longterm Winner....

[dantheman82]

Did someone say Apple? Well, maybe they don't want to do the whole rental thing, but they very easily could... Dan

Re:The Longterm Winner....

[daveisoverlord]

The longterm winner is the one that can first come to market with a downloadable delivery method.

The only problem with that business model is the hardware side of the equation. There are several times more people with DVD players than there are with people who the capability (or willingness) to get downloaded material to their TV. Granted that would probably being a winning business model for the slashdot demographic, but that's not large enough.

I hook my laptop up to the TV and play downloaded stuff but that's only material I can't get on Netflix like Junkyard Wars or The Dog Whisperer. It's just easier to put in a DVD. We watch 1 or 2 movies a week and all I want to do is grab a drink, pop the DVD in, and chill out. Even though I can, and it's not all that hard, I just don't feel like going to the extra work of hooking up the laptop when it's time to relax. I get precious little of that and I want to maximize it.

I think that most people don't have the ability or hardware to do that even if they wanted to. Really I think what you're talking about is Video on Demand - most cable companies offer it - they just need to get a bigger selection.

The other nice thing about Netflix is that I can handle my queue from work. They won't allow me to SSH back into my home box so I can set up another download.

--Dave

Re:The Longterm Winner....

[DavidD_CA]

You're absolutely right, and that's exactly what I meant. Not downloading a movie and burning it to a DVD, or having your computer hooked up to a screen.... but actually hooking either your TiVo, TV, or DVD player directly up to the internet to download the video and play it.

Cable companies and TiVo-like devices have a huge advantage here because they already have the hardware in the home. The "concept" is there. And yeah, some cable companies offer Video-on-Demand, but it's not quite there yet. I think they will win though, if they do it quickly.

I'm sure TiVo and others are hot on their heels.

I'm still trying both services.

[Mad Ogre]

There are pros and cons to both that I'm not going to get into. But the one thing that I've found that no one has mentioned yet... For either service... there really are not enough good movies to make either service worth while. Maybe one good flick a month comes out? I was thinking about canning one of the services, but I might just cank both and rent the one flick a month that I actually want to watch.

Re:I'm still trying both services.

[Anita Coney]

"For either service... there really are not enough good movies to make either service worth while"

Have you considered the possibility that maybe you don't actually like watching DVDs?! I've been a Netflix user for probably two years now, at 8 movies at a time, and my queue consistently has 100+ DVDs. I've long since given up the notion that eventually I'll run out DVDs to get.

The shocking thing is that you apparently do not like movies but you're using two services?!

Re:I'm still trying both services.

[Mad Ogre]

No, I love movies... I'm just tired of thinking "Well, that movie sucked" nine times out of ten when the credits roll. You sound like you need to get outside more... jeebus.

Re:I'm still trying both services.

[Anita Coney]

I like movies so much that I even enjoy watching stuff I don't like. For example, this year I re-watched the originals and the remakes of Walking Tall and The Longest Yard. All four movies sucked, boy did they suck!, but I find it interesting to see how different directors will treat the same material. Even though I hate horror movies, I finally got around to watching the Evil Dead Trilogy, and now I finally understand all those Ash lines/jokes. And I recently watched the recent Star Wars trilogy, even though I hated the original trilogy. I got tired of criticizing them without actually seeing them, and now I can tell fans in excruciating detail why those movies sucked.

It's the same thing with music, I just fill up my 20 gig MP3 player with random stuff and let god sort it out with shuffle.

Seriously, you don't really like movies. You like some movies. There's a huge difference and someone like you should not subscribe to two services, let alone one!

Re:They are both toast in the long run - here's wh

[Anonymous Coward]

There's no reason why Netflix and/or Blockbuster can't move to an online distribution plan. If they're smart, they're working on the R&D already and will roll something out when it makes sense.

I've tried OnDemand through Comcast. It isn't bad. The menu is functional (you can browse by Genre, Title, and New Releases). There's also a fairly sizable selection of "free" movies (although I'd need to be paid to watch most of their free movies). Any premium channel you subscribe to, will offer their movies/shows on demand for no additional cost as well (HBO typically has a good OnDemand selection, and their shows are usually available a day after they premiere).

There are two problems I have with Comcast's offering. The first (and biggest) is price. It's $4 for new releases and typically $2-3 for older movies. This is on top of whatever tier of cable you have to get to have OnDemand (lets say $50/month minimum). Now if Comcast were only competing with brick and mortar rental stores, their price might be reasonable. But for the cost of a couple OnDemand movies, one can get a subscription to Netflix and easily rent 2-3 times the number of movies before the Netflix throttle starts to get you.

The other problem with Comcast's service is speed, on Friday and Saturdays the service really degrades to the point where it'll drop frames/sound (though this can happen anytime). Pretty hard to stomach seeing as I paid $4 just to watch the thing once (although you can repeat the viewing for 24hrs after start time).

As for DRM on OnDemand stuff, I couldn't care less. I'm perfectly comfortable with the idea of renting something for a short period of time. They can lock it down as much as they want. DRM only really bugs me if affects stuff I own.

Or go with your local public library....

[Anonymous Coward]

I happened to live in the Bay Area where the San Francisco, PLS, and many other libraries have a great DVD collection. I also happen to work at one library with a great DVD collection that does not charge holds or rental fees. While I may not bring home the latest month's hits, I usually get them a month later after the flurry of the 70+ hold queues get done watching, but the collection is large so I can watch other stuff that's 2-3 months released already. Or better yet, catch up on some TV shows like past seasons of 24, kurosawa movies, classics, or TV shows that are no longer availabe (even online), like Profit. (They ordered it because me and several other patrons suggested the purchase, BB sucks at stocking older stuff)
Plus I get them for a whole week and only get charged a quarter a day in late fees. (PLS charges a buck a day. argh).
The best part of it all is on average if friends with bad taste in movies come over, the worse that'll happen is I go to BB or safeway ($1 rentals) and spend less than $5 a month on dvd rentals on stuff not worth watching. Once we're done watching that, we can watch something I brought home from the public library and impress them.

Rip to DVDs HD

[Anonymous Coward]

Here's quick way to keep movies on your HD as long as you want:

1) DVD Shrink to ISO
2) Mount ISO in Alcohol 120%
3) Run WinDVD

All you need to do it hookup a s-video link to your TV and you're all set. (or just watch them on your monitor/laptop)

Selection

[szrachen]

In my experience, Netflix has had a much larger selection of titles as well as a greater number of obscure titles. I don't recall what movie I was trying to get from Blockbuster but it was seemingly impossible to get it because of its obscurity. On Netflix, I got it right away. I also recall that Netflix has a lot more of the Season sets for Television shows.

Re:Selection

[Blakey Rat]

Blockbuster gives you free in-store rental coupons with your online membership for your 'spur-of-the-moment' rentals. That's what the grandparent was trying to explain. And, for me at least, that's what made me choose Blockbuster over Netflix. (The in-store coupons can be used for video games, BTW.)

Re:Selection

[Kelson]

I understand that... I was replying to the "how can Netflix compete" question. For me, the fact that Netflix has a lot of stuff I want to watch that Blockbuster doesn't* outweighs the benefit of the in-store coupons. I don't make spur-of-the-moment rental choices very often, so it only amounts to spending an extra $3 once every two or three months.

*(Again, it all depends on what you want to watch. I've seen a couple of movies that Blockbuster has that Netflix doesn't. Someone in another thread pointed out that Blockbuster has the option of pulling from their old store stock, so they have some movies that have since gone out of print.)

netflix for pr0n

[pdxguy]

now I just need a Netflix for pr0n and I'm set.

Re:netflix for pr0n

[La Camiseta]

If I'm not mistaken, WantedList is what you're looking for.

It was in Wired a while back.

Re:netflix for pr0n

[MojoStan]

I think Greencine looks like (I haven't tried it) a good Netflix-style site for those that want to hide their pr0n rentals from their roommate/girlfriend/mailperson/etc. Greencine is well known for their selection of independent films, documentaries, and anime. But they also offer pr0n.

You can be a pseudo-hipster by claiming Greencine offers the "alternative" indie/anime/documentary films you desire, while in reality you're using them for pr0n.

Re:netflix for pr0n

[GeoSanDiego]

Actually SugarDVD are the biggest netflix style pr0n company. Biggest selection, fast turnaround, 24hr live support, etc

Re:netflix for pr0n

[GeoSanDiego]

Sorry correct link: SugarDVD

Bogus claim or one unlucky renter

[FerretFrottage]

I currently have both and have had BB since it was in beta. The two are about equal in my book for turnaround time with added value going to BB for the "free" in store rentals.

I've never had a 90 day waiting time for a new release DVD from either service. Overall, if a DVD set to be released on Tuesday is in my queue (at the top) and I get a DVD shipped out to me on Monday, it has been the new release (this goes for both rental services).

You either need to complain to BB about this if it really is true or stop spreading the FUD.

blockbuster bricks&mortar a dinosaur

[raelimperialaerosolk]

Rochester MN is a mid sized midwestern town of about 100K people. About 6 months ago, one of the two blockbuster videos in town closed. This was the one that was in the same parking lot as a Super Target.

I drive home right past the other blockbuster each and every day. My observation is that it too, is on the skids. Used to be on a Friday night the parking lot was jammed with folks loading up for the weekend. Not anymore. Occaisionally we'll head there on a Sat night for something for the kids or a new release. used to be the parking lot was full and the line to check out was long. Not anymore..the place is a ghost town. Also gone is the "no late fee" policy.

I don't have any evidence to support this, but near as I can tell, netflix and $20 DVD's is kicking blocbusters ass.

Re:blockbuster bricks&mortar a dinosaur

[sandmaninator]

I live in Roch too. Used to have a membership at the Blockbuster on civic center drv. but dropped it for Netflix. Then Netflix started throtteling me so, now I use Hollywood video's monthly plan. $17 for truely unlimited rentals - only caveat is that you have to wait 3 months before you can rent the big new releases. Not a problem since, if I could wait for it to come to video, I can wait a little while longer.

Anyway, I dont have any cable service so I watch TV shows from hollywood video. 6 feet under has me addicted. The other option for watching HBO shows is paying the cable company like $50/mo. nooooo thanks.

I feel your pain!

[Quiet_Desperation]

they come as e-mail links,

Oh my GOD! The ultimate in inconvenience!

you visit the web page,

Great Satan's Firey Balls! That must require the use of at least three muscles to move the pointer and click the link! Does Blockbuster offer health insurance?

print it out, pick it up from the printer,

Jesus Tap Danching Christ On A Cracker! Those foul villans! They make you trek all the way to the printer? Do they subsidize the required team of Sherpas and ruggedized GPS navigation equipment?

then have to remember to bring the coupon when you go to the store.

Wow! What does Blockbuster think? That we have highly evolved brains with complex memory capabilities? Those fools! Thos bloody, viscious fools!

Re:I feel your pain!

[Blakey Rat]

Sarcasm recognized, it *is* a pain for those of us who don't own a printer. It's moronic in this day of everything being networked that Blockbuster stores need the physical piece of paper to give you a rental... why can't they just punch in my name and I'll give my password, and mark it off on a intranet site somewhere?

I actually emailed a complaint saying that the service doesn't say that it requires a printer before you sign up. I don't know if it does not; I hope so.

Re:I feel your pain!

[Anonymous Coward]

Justin? Is that you?
-Ben

Re:I feel your pain!

[whoop]

Take my evil approach. Get whatever cheapo inkjet printer's on sale this week. Set the quality settings to the lowest it can go and still be readable. Print them out and watch as the Blockbuster clerks try scanning the coupon UPC 20 times before having to manually enter the numbers. Muahahahaa.

Most often, I just print them out at work and store them in my car. Whenever I feel like something specific, I go in and get the movies.

Zip.ca

[x1n933k]

For all you Slash-Canadian reader who have had a chance to experience Zip.ca I have to admit, services like this beat the snot out of Blockbuster. Few reasons for this: -Block Busters tend to lack in selection outside, recent American films. There are the odd large BB's out there that have world selections etc but they're often tiny. Zip on the other hand has a huge selection of 'classics' and film circuit movies. Not to mention all the new releases. -Zip is FAST. If you have a watch list of movies, you get the or two (depending on your membership) within a few days if you're like me and live in a major city. As for small towns. I had a great experience dealing with them in Halifax too. -Sure, BB you can walk down the street and pick up Aquamarine before most places get it but for the price you pay on new rentels (regardless of deals) isn't much compared to membership with zip. It really depends on the user though. If you like all sorts of movies and don't watch them every single night you can hold on to the movie with zip and send it to be done and have the next on the list within a very short time. If you want the latest releases 24/7 BB is your bet. I'm a bit byass because I worked of BB and also dislike their ads, selection, promotions and end the end the service.. Can't say much about the service mention in this topic but internet DVD rentals give you a great choice. [J]

I fired Blockbuster

[m2bord]

I had to pull the trigger and fire Blockbuster when they announced that they were raising their fees to 17.99 for their service.

During the several months I was using them, I noted that it took them sometimes weeks to process returned movies, many movies would "disappear" in transit, the movies I received would be in the wrong sleeve, Disc 2 inside a Disc 1 sleeve, and did I mention that they took weeks at times to process the movies I would return?

Their service is not worth 17.99, 14.99, or even 12.99. At best I could get four to five flicks a month plus the coupons they would give me for two free rentals a month which make a 6-7/month movie rental for, call it, $15. I can get them cheaper if I drive down to their store and rent them one at a time from the dollar/bargain bin.

I'm sorry but Blockbuster just is not worth the money.

Faster turnaround with BBO

[doodlebumm]

The Blockbuster nearest us will take back your on-line rentals in-store, giving you about a two-day faster turnaround. I return one yesterday to the store and they already sent out another from my queue. I could not have returned a Netflix DVD and received the return credit until Wednesday. I find that another benefit that I have not seen here yet.

In store is the way to go

[Anonymous Coward]

If you live near a Blockbuster in store is the way to go. Just walking through the store I see a lot of titles that I would have never thought about online. It's around $23 a month and there is no throttling at all. I pass by blockbuster on my way home from work every day and pick up two movies. Rip them at night and burn them whenever I have the time. Some weekends I'll do as many as 8 a day. Do I watch them all? No, not yet. But it is nice to have a lot to choose from.

So format-shift it.........

[ClioCJS]

So format-shift it......... DVD-Decrypt it to your harddrive, then watch it later when you feel like it. You'll get more movies per dollar spent. Of course, technically, you should delete the movie after you watch it. But I wont tell.

(And anyone who doesn't have a computer hooked up to a television is just living in a sad, last-millenium hardware setup.)

Re:So format-shift it.........

[chrisv]

(And anyone who doesn't have a computer hooked up to a television is just living in a sad, last-millenium hardware setup.)

Meh. I never bother hooking the computer to the television; I prefer the TV tuner in the computer. (Of course, my most current working system right now is a dual Celeron 500, so...)

Re:So format-shift it.........

[ClioCJS]

I prefer my shows being shown on a 36-inch screen.

Hell, I generally prefer my email being shown on a 36-inch screen.

Now, if someone could just direct me to a decent 36-inch CRT with a DVI input in it, for under the $1200 I paid for my existing TV 5 years ago, I would be happy. EM-interference is the only remaining flaw, and while not noticeable during bright animation, it's bad during "space movies" sometimes. Less signal (the blackness of space) makes equal noise look a lot worse . . .

I always get my new releases within 48 hours.

[ClioCJS]

First queue, first serve. If you didn't queue the movie months ahead, you didn't want to see it as bad as me and don't deserve it before me. I have never EVER *not* gotten a new release within 48 hours, and I've been on netflix several years. Pay attention.

Re:I always get my new releases within 48 hours.

[LordKronos]

First queue, first serve

Yeah, well if only it were that simple. Try explaining what I mentioned in my other post. I had King Kong in my queue. Morning of release it tells me I have a short wait. Later that evening of release it tells me LONG wait. The next morning it says VERY LONG wait. Still think they queue everyone up in order?

Re:I always get my new releases within 48 hours.

[Pollardito]

i'm curious when you put things in your queue and if this is always happening or just occasionally and it's standing out in your mind anyway. my luck has been pretty decent with getting first-run movies, but i quite often queue them when they first come out in the theater and i return several movies in the morning Monday (the distribution center is a 1-day mailing away) so that they're ready to send me one on Tuesday when the new releases are there. still, it's neither 0% or 100% but it seems like a fair rate and i'm a regular-to-heavy user watching 4 or 5 movies a week on the 3-movie plan for 14 months now.

they clearly cannot have enough copies on-hand to have one for everyone on the day that it releases (the Blockbuster store can do this because of special deals with the movie companies), and i think i remember reading a statement from them that they try to evenly distribute first-runs. maybe you're having a different experience, but i know that i'm getting a much better deal than Blockbuster was giving me previously and probably better than any other legal alternative.

Re:I always get my new releases within 48 hours.

[LordKronos]

Well, it definitely is standing out in my mind...mostly because it's still sitting at the top of my queue. However, this is the third new release I've seen my wait time actually increase.

I've definitely read online (blogs, forums, etc) several people who experience the same sort of thing.

Re:I always get my new releases within 48 hours.

[Pollardito]

i think the short/long wait thing has more to do with how many people have it near the top of their list than "where i am in line", because in order to have a line like you're proposing they'd either have to not send you an alternate movie while you wait for that one to be ready or they'd have to hold the ones that they get back until some indeterminate future date when the next person in line returns what he's watching now. i think the actual method is some combination of the two. i've seen my delivery wait a day when i'm waiting on a "short wait" movie, rather than sending me an alternate immediately.

the window that they give you into their queue is so small that it's pretty difficult to do anything but guess at what's going on. it's not that surprising that conspiracy theories would spring up to try to explain the parts that you can only guess at.

Re:I always get my new releases within 48 hours.

[edawstwin]

This is not the way that Netflix runs its Queue. I have been a Netflix customer for years as well, and they definitely throttle my Queue, especially new releases. For example, I put Hustle and Flow into my Queue last year sometime and put it in the top slot as soon as a date was listed. I returned a movie the day that it came out, and my Queue said "Long Wait" for H&F. The next day it went to "Very Long Wait" and stayed there for over two months. I finally received the DVD in mid-April, over three months after it was released. This is ludicrous by any standard, and if the Queue worked like "first-come, first-served", then I would have had the movie in January. This is the longest that I ever had to wait for a new release, but waiting six or eight weeks is not uncommon. And my wait time should never increase if it is first-come first-served because no one could get ahead of me, but slipping from Short to Long or Long to Very Long happens every time a new release is in my queue and I miss "opening day".

I have read several accounts of how they throttle movies and spoken to many friends who also subscribe, and the way it works is this: If you have an open slot when a movie is available for shipping for the first time (the Monday before it's released officially, usually), then you are likely to get the movie. Anytime after that, including the Tuesday it is officially released, you are ordered by how much profit they make off of you. For example, if you rent and return 5 movies a month with them, and I rent 10 movies a month, and we both have the movie at #1 in our Queue, then you get priority for that new release. This compounds the problem further because you will keep the movie twice as long as I would have, so everyone else waiting on the movie has longer wait times as well.

Your friend made a mistake.

[Belial6]

Your friend made a mistake. If he was going through all that trouble anyway, he should have installed conduit in his walls. This way if he needs to replace his cat5 wire with cat6, all he has to do is poke his head into the attic, and start sliding the new wire down the tube. You can buy 6 hole face plates, and plugs for most connector types, including blanks for the holes you are not using.

Re:They are both toast in the long run - here's wh

[Anonymous Coward]

So what you're saying is that if the content companies offer a product that is convenient and inexpensive enough people will stop unauthorized copying? I thought that's what we wanted them to do?

An Alternative to Both...

[Keweenaw]

As a low-volume user of either service (I've had both in the past), I found I didn't feel like I was getting my membership's worth.

Then I found Peerflix. The service was covered in this /. story from Sept 2005.

Instead of "renting", I "trade" my DVDs. I pay $0.99 every time I have a DVD on my list sent to me, and I pay postage ($0.37 for a single DVD) when I send a DVD to someone else.

What do I think of Netflix and Blockbuster Online? I think Blockbuster has the edge with the monthly in-store coupons...but I felt I received better turn around time and service from Netflix (BB was still in beta at the time).

Re:An Alternative to Both...

[andynms]

Peerflix is a pretty good alternative to Netflix, especially for low-volume users. I can just trade a couple of DVDs a month, and it'll only cost me a few bucks. If I really like a DVD, I can keep it; if not, I can put it back into the system and trade it out again. There's not much chance of getting new releases (or any other high-demand titles) through Peerflix, though.

First queue, first serve.

[ClioCJS]

In over a year of netflix, I have never ever received a new release any later than 48 hours after it was available.

You see, the first ones who queue it get it first.

That you were not interested enough in the movie to queue it until the last possible minute means that you DESERVE to see it after me, when I have been hungrily waiting 6 months for the dvd to come out. You see, I add movies to my netflix queue when the trailers come out for their theatrical release.

If you did it right, you'd get the results you want. You have no one to blame but yourself.

Re:First queue, first serve.

[LordKronos]

If you did it right, you'd get the results you want

People keep claiming this, but as I've already posted here a few times, I've seen movies that start out on release day as a short wait, increase to a long wait, and sometimes even increase to a very long wait. How does my short wait turn into a very long wait unless they let people cut in line? A number of people have reported such a problem. Their user agreement explicitly gives them the right to prioritize movies shipments to customers how they see fit. Put it all together, and it seems quite clear to me what's going on.

Re:First queue, first serve.

[ClioCJS]

Maybe they have a scarcity algorithm? They could use all kinds of criteria to prioritize. I'm a customer who's given them several hundred so maybe that does something. I dunno. That does indeed sound strange and I would not be happy experiencing that.
--
Karma: Negative (mostly from not giving a fuck)

The problem with blockbuster

[szembek]

There are no longer any physical Blockbuster stores near me. I still pay for the free in store rentals even though I have no use for them. This is why I use intelliflix for online rentals. They are cheap, and I have had no problems with them yet. The shipping probably could be a little faster, but for the price it's definitely worth it.

Why do people fall for the in-store coupons?

[ClioCJS]

Why do people fall for the in-store coupons? Are they so short-sighted and impulsive that they really have no idea what they want to do that night? I know, for example, that I wanted to see "Corpse Bride". I added it to my netflix queue while it was in the theatre, and the dvd came to my house within 48 hours of its dvd release.

I didn't need to go running down to any store, risking car accident, spending gas, risking rude staff, parking hassles, the left turn out of the shopping center, or anything else.

Who are all these people who are so impulsive and impatient that they are willing to take a stupid path just for some instant gratification? Is this some left over hunter-gatherer instinct from the caveman days?

It sure as hell doesn't seem logical to me that people would use Blockbuster's "in-store rental coupons" as a reason to switch to Blockbuster's online service. It seems that these people want to hop on the new internet bandwagon, but they are too tied to their old ways to completely abandon them. And for that, they pay. I pity the fools.

Re:Why do people fall for the in-store coupons?

[pammon]

Why do people fall for the in-store coupons? Are they so short-sighted and impulsive that they really have no idea what they want to do that night?

A large part of it is that the Blockbuster coupons are also good for games.

I got to play God of War through my Blockbuster subscription. I couldn't have done that if I had used Netflix.

Re:Why do people fall for the in-store coupons?

[greenstrat]

Currently, I've been getting all the Sopranos episodes by mail, and I go to the store to rent the "new releases" that I want to see. I haven't even tried to rent a new release by mail in a long time, not because it's difficult, but because there's no reason to.

I get stuff by mail that I might want to keep for a while, such as TV episodes, and I get movies that I'm going to watch that night at the store. It's a perfect setup.

Same price as Netflix, why not get something else for free, all other things being equal.

Re:Why do people fall for the in-store coupons?

[ClioCJS]

Well, I would beg to differ on the "all other things being equal" part.

I go to a netflix page, I see what my friends rated it. I have 16 face-to-face friends on netflix and we share ratings. Who do I know on blockbuster? Nobody.

I don't believe the throttle rumor

[Belial6]

Does anyone have proof that it is Netflix that is causing the delays? In the three years that I have been a Netflix member, I have not had more than 3 movies take more than one day shipping, and those were 2 days. I even had one that was technically a same day shipment. I sent the movie out on a Saturday, and got the next one on Monday. Since Sunday does not count as a mailing day, I got a same day shipment.

I watch a LOT of movies. In those 3 years, I have only kept a move for more than 2 days maybe 10 times, and then it has only been for 3 or 4 days. Heck, at one point I had the 8 movie plan, and had rented 90 movies in 90 days. If Netflix were actually throttling, I would think that I should be seeing it.

Gamefly on the other hand is definitly throttling. I have had games take 5 days from "shipped" to when I recieved them. It does not take 5 days to ship from LA to Sacramento.

Re:I don't believe the throttle rumor

[gmb61]

NetFlix throttling is well documented and even admitted to by NetFlix in their TOS. When I was a member, there were basically 3 ways in which I was throttled:

1. They lied about what day they received a DVD back from me (adding 1-2 days to the time it takes for the DVD to show up as being returned on their site)

2. They lied about the availability of new releases (I would see "Very Long Wait" while a new subscriber would see "Available Now" for the exact same DVD)

3. They lied about what day they shipped a DVD back to me (for example, saying they shipped the DVD on Monday but actually shipped it on Tuesday or Wednesday).

Check out http://www.hackingnetflix.com/ for more information about NetFlix throttling.

Re:I don't believe the throttle rumor

[Belial6]

"NetFlix throttling is well documented and even admitted to by NetFlix in their TOS."

BS. I just read their terms of service. It says nothing of the sort. It does say that it prioritizes lower volume customers, but that is something entirely different than "throttling".

"1. They lied about what day they received a DVD back from me (adding 1-2 days to the time it takes for the DVD to show up as being returned on their site)"

"3. They lied about what day they shipped a DVD back to me (for example, saying they shipped the DVD on Monday but actually shipped it on Tuesday or Wednesday)."

Speculation. There is no way short of you working at Netflix and doing the recieving yourself that you could know when recieved or shipped your movies. Given the HUGE number of extreamly heavy users of Netflix that report next day shipment to and from Netflix, it seems much more likely that your local post office is the culprit. A perfect example is me and my father. He lives 20 miles from me, and rents fewer movies. He keeps his movies usually about 2 days. I always send mine back the next day. I always have a one day shipping time, and he always has 2 day shipping times. So, what does he do? He whines about throttling. Really, if Netflix were throttling, wouldn't the person that gets MORE movies be the one that gets throttled? Your examples indicate that the throttling is a myth. They don't confirm it.

"2. They lied about the availability of new releases (I would see "Very Long Wait" while a new subscriber would see "Available Now" for the exact same DVD)"

This is in the TOS. They give priority to lower volume members. They have to give priority to SOMEONE. It seems to me that if you are getting 10 movies that you want to watch a month, and another guy just has one, the other guy should get the one he wants. There are other just as fair ways of prioritizing, but the one they chose is perfectly fair. Combine that with IT IS NOT THROTTLING. Throttling means that you are slowing down, in this case, shipments. If they are still sending you movies they are not throttling.

So basically you helped convince me that the throttling is a myth, and that people that live in poor quality postal areas are misdirecting their wrath.

Re:I don't believe the throttle rumor

[djbentle]

Your case doesn't explain how the service can change over time for the same person however. My incredibly small anecdotal sample of... wait for it... ONE, indicates that for a while after subscribing things went as expected. After several months of doing the copy and return thing, the throughput on movies is significantly reduced. I'm not sure whether they throttle, or something else is going on, but at least it's not explained by poor post office response.

Re:I don't believe the throttle rumor

[Cheaty]

You may want to check the return address on the shipping envelopes as well. Every DVD I've had that didn't show up the day after it was marked shipped has had a return address for another city.

Recently, I've added some more obscure/less popular movies to my queue and I noticed that they often have return addresses for facilities in other cities. Most have been for Austin (live in Houston) and these DVDs still typically arrive in one day, sometimes two, but some have been for Washington or California and these have always taken at least two days to arrive.

Re:I don't believe the throttle rumor

[gmb61]

"Speculation. There is no way short of you working at Netflix and doing the recieving yourself that you could know when recieved or shipped your movies." And that is exactly why these liars have been able to get away with it, because you can't prove it unless you work for the post office or for Netflix. I have had both Blockbuster and NetFlix service at the same time. Where I live, their distribution centers are in the same city, within a couple of miles of each other. With Blockbuster I ALWAYS get the DVD the next day. With NetFlix, it is 1-3 days in each direction. It doesn't take a genius to figure out what's really going on under these conditions. "This is in the TOS. They give priority to lower volume members. They have to give priority to SOMEONE." OK, since they have to give priority to someone, how about "first come, first served?" That's the way Blockbuster does it and it's the only way that's truly fair. Blockbuster finally confessed to their priority system in their revised TOS because they had no choice, since this was the only throttling method that could be independently verified without having to be an employee of NetFlix or the post office. If there were any way to prove their shipping shenanigans as well, they would have no choice but to confess to that too. "So basically you helped convince me that the throttling is a myth" Go ahead and bury your head in the sand if you want to, but throttling is a FACT, and thousands of people have been affected by it. Thank God for Blockbuster for providing a superior, throttling-free alternative to those lying bastards at NetFlix.

Re:I don't believe the throttle rumor

[Lord Apathy]

Who really cares if they are throttling or not? The way I've look at it I've already waited an average of six months for the movie to come out on dvd. I can afford to wait a few extra weeks to get the movie. Its not like its a book and someone is going to spoil the movie for me.

Re:I don't believe the throttle rumor

[jandrese]

From what I've seen, in order to be "throttled" you have to be one of those guys who rips all three DVDs the day you get them and drops them back in the mail on the same day. If you actually spend the time to watch the movies, it's nearly impossible to get up to the volume of DVDs that's required to be throttled. Basically, unless you're building a huge ripped DVD collection by abusing Netflix, it's not something you have to worry about. Even the ardent movie watchers I know have never seen anything like the "throttling" that people talk about on sites with names like omgnetflixripoff.com.

The people who constantly harp on the "throttling" issue IMHO are the ones who have some agenda unrelated to the issue their discussing. I'd be surprised if there was really anything to it at all. The other option is that the throttlers are the guys who were abusing Netflix and are hoping to embarass them enough (by putting up angry websites) to let them abuse the service more. It's a lot like the people who try to scam money out of people through paypal and then post thousands of angry letters to message boards when their scam is shut down by paypal and their ill gotten gains are locked up in the system, denying them the chance to grab the money and run.

Re:I don't believe the throttle rumor

[Belial6]

I'n not even convinced that that is happening. When my wife was on maternity leave, we had the 8 movie plan. I telecommute, and leave the TV running in the background the way others use the radio. For a good 6 months, we would send back the movie the morning after we recived it. Heck, there were a few times that we watched the movie, and dropped them back at the post office before the final pick up, so that they went back the same day. When she was not on maternity leave, we were on the 3 at a time, with the same behavior. As I've said in other posts, I have only a few movies take more than 1 day in shipping. If throttling were going on, I should have been affected.

Keep in mind that a lot of these people are calling the 'short wait'/'long wait' throttling. Even though they get a movie sent out the same day Netflix recieves their return.

Re:They are both toast in the long run - here's wh

[Anonymous Coward]

You do realize www.allofmp3.com is not liable for any laws you break.
And at their prices, they're definitely not giving the required payments to writers, artists, labels and what not.

It may not be cheaper to purchase MBs from allofmp3 if every 3-5 MBs could cost you an extra $750 US if the RIAA finds you. Which with the NSA's help, could be much, much easier from now on.

Experiment

[dsm131]

I did an experiment: I had never tried either service before. I joined both Netflix and Blockbuster at the same time about two or three months ago, and rented from them as fast as I could (returning movies the next day most of the time). The first month, Netflix was a bit faster (I think it led 15 to 11 or something, I don't have my notes here). The second month and beyond, Blockbuster was significantly better (almost 2 to 1). Figure in the Blockbuster coupons (which I do use, since there is a convenient Blockbuster for me), and it looks like I'll drop Netflix soon and keep Blockbuster. YMMV *shrug*

Re:Experiment

[Anonymous Coward]

An idea for everyone w/ BB. Which I love by the way. When you have your max 3 movie's out. Trick BB and report DVD issue and say you returned but hasn't cleared Queue. This way you can have extra time and still have more movies on the way!

Only issue I have w/ BB is the non- NC17 titles.

Limited collections though!

[antdude]

Limited collection of movies though. :(

After seeing everything worth watching...

[Belial6]

After renting everything worth watching, I have moved from the 3 at a time to the 1 at a time rental. My rentals per month have been April - 7 March - 8 February - 7 January - 6 December - 7 November - 5 When I had the 8 at a time 2 years ago, I had 90 movies in 90 days. I call BS on the throttling.

There's Your Answer

[Nom du Keyboard]

Anybody here read to drop your NexFlix for Blockbuster?

There's your answer.

Bought DVDs at BB?

[Belial6]

The last time I was in a Blockbuster was because my wife got a giftcard. Some of their used movies were actually MORE expensive than the same movie brand new from Target. We ended up leaving and just giving the card to someone that already rents at BB.

Netflix + DVD Burner = Fantastic

[NapalmMan]

Look, all I'm sayin' is, my roomie has Netflix, we both have burners, and our movie libraries have increased massively.

Go Netflix!

Blockbuster brand recognition? (*scoff*)

[Sleepy]

>>What's blockbuster got to top that?

>Coupla decades of building brand recognition and customer base?

Um, brand recognition is why I AVOID BlockBuster. They are evil, and have a tendancy to not account for movies dropped in the overnight mail slot. Plus their website is (or was) horribly broken in FireFox when I tried it 12 months ago (not formatting issues... real things like "Submit" buttons not working due to use of Jscript instead of JavaScript... just retarded MSIE-ness).

BlockBuster is avout as behind the times as mullets and flannel.

Re:Blockbuster brand recognition? (*scoff*)

[kfg]

BlockBuster is avout as behind the times as mullets and flannel.

I like flannel. It is not behind the times. It is a timeless classic.

Do you have any idea how much trouble I'm having right now trying to find a replacement for my trench coat? I'm told "nobody" wears them anymore. It's all single breasted baggies in the stores now. I might have to have Burberry make me a custom, or switch to Aussie dusters.

Excuuuuuuuuuuuuse me for being "behind the times."

KFG

Selection

[Kelson]

It depends on what you like to watch, of course, but the last time I checked Blockbuster Online, their animation category had maybe 20-25% as many titles as Netflix's. One of the main things I've been renting through Netflix has been anime series, several of which aren't on Blockbuster's list (yet), so it's Netflix for me for the foreseeable future. When Blockbuster's selection catches up, I may revisit things. (Both services, of course, have a much bigger selection overall than a typical brick-and-mortar store.)

That said, the Netflix/Blockbuster Online model doesn't work very well for spur-of-the-moment "I want to watch this movie tonight" decisions, so I still have both a Blockbuster card and a local video store membership.

I'm with you.

[Belial6]

My experience has been that Netflix recieves and ships the same day. Recently I moved down to the one at a time plan, and have still been recieving 7 to 8 movies a month.

Still fuming over the days of late charges

[KiWiKiD]

Every time my girlfriend feels compelled to go rent a movie I walk into a Blockbusted with disdain as I'm still infuriated over the years of late charges. I can recall a couple occasions where I'd forget to return a movie and the late charges would be more than the cost of the movie itself. Sure I should be upset with myself, but there should be some common sense applied. Now when she pays for the movie and they try to sell me their online subscription I scoff. I'll be damned if I give them another penny for all the money the made off me in the past. As it is Netflix has a 1 day turnaround for me once my return gets there. They've been nothing short of spectacular in terms of service. Sure Blockbuster is cheaper, but I have my principles.

Re:Still fuming over the days of late charges

[Anonymous Coward]

I agree. After years of getting shafted by these swindlers I won't go back to crapbuster for anything. If I can hurt blockbuster in any way, i'll do it.

Hmm.

[ClioCJS]

Indeed you are correct in asserting that my experiences cannot explain yours.

Still, your experiences are vastly different from mine.

Without knowing more (but still knowing more than I did before you posted), I would think this would have to do more with shipping routes than queueing. Do you live in a rural area?

For me, I'm inside the Washington D.C. beltway. I know Netflix works directly with the postal service and had a goal of 70% "next day delivery" by 2006 -- I think it was 2006.

Re:Hmm.

[LordKronos]

Do you live in a rural area

Nope...Detroit. Distribution center is in Lansing, which is less than 1 hour from here, and is definitely an overnight delivery location.

Re:Hmm.

[ClioCJS]

How do you find out where the distribution centers are anyway? (I have a postal regional somethingorother center about 6 miles away....)
--
For art to exist, for any sort of aesthetic activity to exist, a certain physiological precondition is indispensable: intoxication. --Friedrich Nietzsche

Re:Hmm.

[LordKronos]

I was actually referring to the netflix distribution center. As for the USPS, not sure where it is, but detroit being as large as it is (11 largest city in the US) I can't imagine they don't have one nearby.

Re:Hmm.

[ClioCJS]

Actually, I knew you were referring to the Netflix distribution center. I still want to know how you find out where those are. :)
--
She's hot, but in a weird way. .......... It's her cheekbones. She looks like Skeletor!

Re:Hmm.

[LordKronos]

Well, I found out where mine was from the return envelope that most of my dvds come in.

There is a list a few years old here:
http://netflixfan.blogspot.com/2004/01/known-netfl ix-distribution-centers.html

Not sure how out of date that was. There was a list included on Wikipedia at one time, but it was removed (due to the "wikipedia is not a directory" rule). I don't remember quite when it was removed (ie: if it's any more up to date than the list linked above) but it should be in Wiki's history archives somewhere.

Re:Hmm.

[LordKronos]

As a followup to my previous post, lots of people have also been posting netflix addresses on this page (some as recent as this year):

http://www.hackingnetflix.com/2004/09/help_compile _a_.html

Re:Hmm.

[ClioCJS]

Hmm, mine's either Richmond (90min south) or Gathersburg (60min north). Comparable distance. Interesting. Hmmm....--
Brought to you by Drool... You're tasting it now!

Blockbuster's limited Library

[Anonymous Coward]

The biggest reason I stick with Netflix is that I've seen all the movies I want to see that are in my local Blockbuster's collection. I've gone to other regional stores, hoping to get more variety...but they tend to have the same stuff. I'm not getting movies just to see the new releases...I want old stuff, and good anime collections. Blockbuster online will never be for me unless they get a much larger library behind it.

Re:Blockbuster's limited Library

[gmb61]

What the heck are you smoking? Blockbuster has over 50,000 DVD titles - as much as NetFlix has. The difference is, Blockbuster doesn't throttle you like NetFlix does. I consistently get over 20 rentals per month on a 3-out-at-a-time program. Try doing that with NetFlix!

Like censorship!

[confusednoise]

BB does everything netflix does, plus some

Like censor the parts of movies (along with some entire films) Blockbuster thinks you shouldn't see?

Re:Like censorship!

[MustardMan]

You know, this argument might have held water at one point - but it no longer does. I can get the unrated versions of many films, including raunchy shit like the american pie movies, on blockbuster online and in blockbuster retail stores. Yeah, they don't carry outright porn, but they aren't going in and modifying movies to get rid of the nudity, either. Blockbuster has plenty of movies I want to see, and blockbuster online lets me see lots of them on the cheap. If I want porn, I'll download some from the internet.

Re:Like censorship!

[MCraigW]

BB does everything netflix does, plus some Like censor the parts of movies (along with some entire films) Blockbuster thinks you shouldn't see?

I hadn't heard that they did this, is there some reference, article about this practice? Thanks.

I've tried both

[Anonymous Coward]

... and Blockbuster is ASS. I wish I had a screenshot around here of my movie queue, 35 movies long, every last one of them marked 'Short Wait' or 'Long Wait'. I switched to Netflix after putting up with too much of that, and haven't had a wait since.

Perhaps a hybrid scheme would work

[jfengel]

The way Netflix is set up, you're "renting" three movies at a time, all month, whether you're churning through them or not. That's the thing that made through-the-mail rentals work: if you waited until you were ready to watch a movie, it would take a full day or two to get there. That disc in your hand (or in transit) costs them money, whether you're watching it or not.

I suppose they could introduce a hybrid model, where you pay $10 to have three discs at a time, plus $.80 per disc to cover shipping. That would break even in the vicinity of 10-11 discs per month, and you'd save $9 every month that you watched no discs at all. (They could even give you a discount if you put two discs in one mailer.)

That might even be more effective for them, too, since it means that instead of throttling high-velocity users they just pay for all the extra shipping. It's a bit more complicated on the accounting side, especially since it means you're paying in retrospect rather than in advance, but I'm sure they could make it work.

That's a decent reason.

[ClioCJS]

For you, at least, that is a decent reason. I was talking more about things in the "moviesphere" (haha, I'm making fun of "blogosphere" -- LAUGH!).

Still, you might want to look into simply using a separate service for that. (Well, moreso if you have a modchip.)

Allow me to blogspam my blog where I carefully researched every game-rental company I could find, determining a per-slot price for rentals: https://clintjcl.wordpress.com/2006/04/28/playstat ion-2-game-rental-survey-results/

I just checked your link...

[Belial6]

I just checked your link, and could find nothing that indicated throttling exists. There were a lot of feedback posts about people who THINK there is throttling, but they all sound like you or worse. Not one of their complaints indicated actual throttling. There was an article posted debunking the AP stories about throttling though.

I'm using both right now

[Fricka]

I've been using Blockbuster Online's service for months now but I'm just ending my 2 week trial period with Netflix after having heard good things about them for a long time.

Short story:

I'm sticking with Blockbuster.

Longer story:

Netflix:
I tried out Netflix because some friends in the area said they have a fast turn around since one of the location places is just one town (15 minutes) over. I had heard about the Netflix settlement (they were sued for purposely demoting fast returners DVDs) and figured that was settled and they wouldn't do it again. Well, my Blockbuster DVDs still got here faster than my Netflix ones...and this was with me churning them over at the same rate. So that was one possible Pro for Netflix that turned out to be a wash.

One Pro that did pan out for Netflix is their website. It was easier to browse and add DVDs to my queue using Netflix and the friend recommendation system is nice. One caveat to this... while using Blockbuster's website I didn't have any complaints so it's only something I noticed using both systems.

Finally, for a Netflix Pro point I figured they would have a wider selection of movies. As a test I searched for "The Last Temptation of Christ" which I had heard was not available from Blockbuster. I was wrong, it's available from both services. Maybe time has made that movie not as controversial though?

Blockbuster:
I started out subscribed to their unlimited 3 out at a time plan with the additional 2 free coupons a month. At the time I also got a coupon for a buy one get one free ice cream, and a free used DVD. The next month I got a coupon for buy one get on free popcorn and a used dvd for $5, another offer was for a discount on a game. You chose which coupons you wanted to print out. It continued like that for awhile but I haven't seen another coupon like that for 2 months now, I of course still get my 2 free rental coupons.

After I got into some TV shows (darn it, I got hooked on LOST) I realized that 3 movies at a time plus the coupons was too many DVDs. I cut back to the 2 out at a time, 2 bonus coupons plan, at a very affordable $11.99 a month. The bonus coupons are great, they allow for immediate gratification on new DVD releases and for spontaneous viewing choices. If I lived far from a Blockbuster I'd re-consider Netflix's service.

Anyway, there's my two bytes worth :)

Netflix, the good and the bad

[Yevda]

I was a netflix user for about a year and a half... I would get my dvds in the mail, watch them within 1-2 days, send them back and get another in 2-3 days. I ended up watching seasons 3-7 of Star Trek Voyager along with several dozens of other misc. movies (100+ discs). It was no hastle to me except to have to drive to the post office to drop them off.

All was well until about the last 2 months where at least 75% of the DVDs would never show up; Netflix would report them as being shipped but I would never get them. This was not normal since I had never once prior to this time had to report a DVD as 'missing' or 'not received' in their system... I was extremely frustrated by this and had heard that they have a system in place where if you use the service too much they will purposefully put a minor hold on sending you DVDs. I do not know if my account hit this barrier, as I only had the 3 at a time service, but it's still a very inappropriate procedure in my opinion.

Needless to say, I ended up qutting my service because of the rate at which I would not get DVDS and when I found out about this tid bit of information.

I have planned on going to Blockbuster because:
1. Same or close prices for same service
2. I have one near so using the 2-free movies a month would be worth it.

This is FUD

[Blakey Rat]

90 days? What are you talking about? I've have several DVDs shipped to me so that they were sitting in my mailbox on the exact day you could buy them at retail. I've never heard of anything about a 90 day limit, and I've been a happy subscriber since they started the service. Stop spreading lies.

Quality control, anyone?

[LoveMe2Times]

I'm surprised that nobody's talking about quality control. While the throttling is indeed annoying, that's not why I contemplate cancelling Netflix every month. The problem is with the quality control. I would say that about 25-35% of the discs that I get have playback problems of varying degrees. About 10% are completely unwatchable, 10% it really ruins the movie because you can't see it all, and the last 5-15% annoy the shit out of me, but I can at least see the whole movie. One thing I've learned is that you never, EVER, watch a Netflix movie when you have friends over. Netflix is personal viewing only, because it's just not worth the risk of ruining the evening with friends by getting half way through a movie and having it crap out. At that point it's too late to start another one and everybody's mad at you.

Since the beginning of February, I've had 30 movies out. Of that total:

• 1 got lost in the mail (Doors concert film)
• 2 wouldn't play at all (Jaws, Saving Private Ryan)
• 3 couldn't play all the way through (School of Rock was unwatchable, Fatal Attraction couldn't play key scenes, Psycho also missed key scenes)
• 4 had minor but annoying glitches (Mystic River, The Gods Must be Crazy, La Cage aux Folles, Nightmare on Elm Street)

Others may have had minor glitches that I just don't remember. So why don't I cancel? Because it's still a decent $/movie, because I'm not convinced the alternative is better, and because I have hundreds of movies in the queue that I don't want to have to set up again.

Re:Quality control, anyone?

[Belial6]

have you tried a different DVD player? I've seen both cheap and expensive DVD players that are hyper sensetive to scratches. You may find that a different DVD player will just resolve items 2 through 4. It is highly unlikely to prevent #1 from happening.

Moods

[Rone689]

What works for me as far as beeing in the mood for this or that, I set up profiles at Netflix and use one say, for action one for comedy, and one for drama. Doing this assures that I will have a varied selection at home.

McDonalds' Big Red Box

[davebarnes]

Netflix and Blockbuster better be paying attention to McDonalds (http://www.dvdtalk.com/forum/archive/index.php/t- 365864.html).
My local McDonalds has a kiosk that lets you rent DVDs for $1/day. I have read that it is very popular.
Now, it won't satisfy you SlashDot readers who want to rent Tron, but the selection is probably "good enough" for 50% of the popluation. Personally, I think this a much larger threat to Blockbuster than NetFlix.
So, either way, Blockbuster is dead. Killed by NetFLix or McDonalds. ,dave

Brick and Mortor Horror

[Angry Rooster]

I used to work at the big BB...

The reason Blockbuster has a high employee turnover rate is that they treat their employees horribly. On high traffic days they designate an "Active Seller" (the name has since changed to something less obvious, like "Entertainment Specialist") the sole job of this person is to meet the sales goals on whatever crappy promotion they have out now... "Did you know you can get a 20oz soda and bag of cheap microwave popcorn for only $2.50 more with that $4.99 rental?"

They are the most horrible corporation I've ever had to work for, they spend insane amounts of money to figure out how they can shave 5 more minutes off of the closing time, yet they are steeped in inefficiency at every level. They have horrible promotions and blame the store employees when nobody wants to preorder the third Matrix movie(for $24.99) and get an aluminium CD case (holds 6 discs, for only $4.99 more!).

At Blockbuster you are given a checklist of duties to be done each day, all of these need to be done in addition to whatever special projects you have to set up, and regardless of how many customers you have. Also, you are required to be out of the building 15 minutes after close. That's right. 15 minutes to kick any last minute customers out, wait 10 minutes for the timed safe, count all the money and get out. So they actually encourage their employees to avoid customers when it is busy, because you have this checklist of jobs that need to be done without fail.

They are the corporate mindset at it's worse, "Hey we're paying these people for an 8 hour day... now, we have them put movies away at three specific intervals, and those take maybe 30 minutes each, so that leaves 6.5 hours left where they're probably not doing anything! Let's lay out the entire week with projects like vacuuming and washing the windows, then we don't have to pay anyone else to do those jobs!. We're being efficient!" then "Hmm, there are a lot of customers complaining about being ignored, let's send out a memo, if they don't help the customers, they get written up."

Despite any problems, Netflix is still better

[amuro98]

After I convinced my wife to sign us up for Netflix last year, she wanted to try a trial membership with Blockbuster.

We'd already gone through about 10 movies in the first month with Netflix with no problems.

In the trial membership with Blockbuster we went through 9 movies, of which:

2 were totally unplayable due to scratches. (these were the so-called "free" rentals we picked out from our local brick&motar Blockbusters.)

4 were mostly playable, but had to skip a scene due to scratches.

2 were scratched, but played fine after cleaning.

1 was a fairly new disc apparentally - no scratches on it at all.

Now, after one year with Netflix, we've had minor problems with 1 scratched disc - which Netflix addressed by expressing us a new copy, and we had one instance of getting the wrong version of a movie (fullscreen vs. widescreen.) Again, Netflix expressed us the correct disc.

We were doing the standard 3 movies at a time plan, but have since dropped back to 2 movies at a time. We figure this allows us to always have 1 movie at home while Netflix processes our second title. We haven't been heavy viewers, so we can get new releases fairly quickly if we want.

Netflix has more titles than Blockbuster and their customer service has been excellent the few times we've had to use it. Blockbuster's free rental from their brick&motar stores is sort of a neat idea (get what you want, *NOW*) but their selection sucks, their movies look like they've been worked over with 20 grit sand paper, and - surprise! - if you aren't careful, you can still get smacked with late fees on that "free" rental of yours! Woo-hoo!

Even if Blockbuster's "free" rentals applied to games, you're still stuck renting last year's mediocre titles.

Aren't they missing the point?

[valtoid]

Will either service be around much longer? Honestly, since I got TIVO I hardly ever use NetFlix anymore. Movies On Demand are coming down in price and you can save them to your TIVO hard drive.

Actually, it might be.

[Belial6]

The thing to look at is how many people find that delivery speed improves over time. Postal carrier change. Managers change. Processes get adjusted. I know that when I started with Netflix in early 2003, I was getting 2 day deliveries. Sometime during the first year, the speed increased to 1 day deliveries. I just assumed that they had improved their process, or opened a new delivery center. It is quite possible that my improvements were for the same/opposite reason as others slowdown. While don't for a second believe that Netflix is a holy bastion of morality. They are a business after all, but so far there is nothing to indicate that they are throttling. In fact, about 4 months ago, my fathers deliveries went from 1 day delivers to 2 days. He's been crying "throttling" to me ever since. The problem is, he gets about 2/3s the number of movies that I do. I send mine back the next day. He keeps his for 2 or three days. If Netflix were throttling, I should definitly see it before he did.



It is a whole lot harder to get people to report positive experiences than it is to get them to report bad ones.

Depends ...

[QuessFan]

I am a librarian, but not at a public library, so others will know more about this than me.

First, some public libraries do charge a fee to circulate audio and visual materials. So more use does increase their revenue.

Second, depends on types of libraries, usages does count. We do keep a gate count.(Most of those anti-thief devices at the door have counters build in.) Libraries also benchmark ourself against each other for efficiency. One of the most famous one is Hennen's American Public Library Rating (HAPLR). One of the major componet is direct spending per use. Since book/CD/DVD purchase/processing/cataloging is a fixed cost. And circulation's marginal cost(labor for checking in and reshelving is relatively law. More use equal to lower per use cost and higher HAPLR. Library directors who improve their HAPLR rankings are often rewarded with appointments to head larger library systems. And high usage number can be used to lobbying decision makers for higher funding or just to preserve funding level. And if one is planning for a bond issue done the road, the wider the patron base, the better.

Third, circulation give us librarians the feedback needed for collection development. If no body read or check-out books from our collection, how do we know whick books to buy? When I was in library school, the conventional wisdom was that if a academic library circulate more than 15%-20% of its collection in a year, that means the collection is not very "deep." OTOH, if a public library can not ciculate its collection 6 times it's considered a bad thing.(i.e. a public library branch with 10,000 volumes is expected to have circulation figure of 60,000 or more) Anything less means there is a disconnect between the collection and the population in the community. Those are rough rule of thumbs, not rigid rule. But getting your number to far out of the norm without good explanation is not good for one's career.

Distribution Centers...

[Taed]

I'm with Blockbuster, and overall, I'm pretty satisfied. For me, the big selling point was the in-store rental coupons since there are times that someone in my family really wants to watch a movie. For example, we see a movie and then decide to see the sequel, or a friend mentions a very interesting movie that I want to get on the way home. But anyway... I'm here to talk about distribution centers. I live about 5 miles away from one of Blockbuster's distribution centers, and for the first few months, that seemed to be where I got all (or at least most) of the DVDs from. But suddenly things changed, and they all started coming from another center which is about 200 miles away. While the close one always had overnight shipping, the far one was overnight only about half the time. I asked Blockbuster and they basically said "too bad, you can't change it, it based on super-complex algorithms that change minute-by-minute" and other hand-waving. But basically, their answer came down to "the post office says that both of those centers should give you 1-day delivery" -- and I looked it up at USPS.com, and sure enough, that is what they say. However, I still want my movies to come from the close distribution center instead of the far one. But anyway, what I REALLY want to ask is... Has anyone every tried returning a movie -- on purpose -- the the wrong (closer) distribution center? As long as I used the same sleves, but changed the address with a label, it seems that it should work fine. But I'm reticent to try it since the DVD might then get "lost". Has anyone done this before?

My Blockbuster/Netflix Experience

[superguido7]

My first experience with Netflix was several years ago. I liked it, but the problem was that the DVD's were often too slow for how much it cost. So I cancelled.

Then, a couple years later I went back and thanks to their new shipping centers (some of which were close to where I lived) speed was much faster and their selection had pretty much everything I could ever want. That was about a year and a half ago and I've been generally happy with them ever since.

However, I did try Blockbuster about a year ago or so, around the time that they launched with the really low price, and before Netflix dropped their price for the 3-at-a-time plan. Generally, everything was fine with Blockbuster, the only problem was, at that time at least, their selection was sorely lacking. I mean, if all you wanted was a good mainstream selection they had you covered. But for me, whose tastes have a little bit wider of a range of stuff, I was severely disappointed in my choices, and that's why I cancelled.

Now, honestly, if they didn't take so long to get here (I live in the Southeast) I would simply go with Greencine because they have the best and most diverse collection out there, and the few holes I've noticed in Netflix's collection are plugged wonderfully by them. But, the time lag is just too large to be worth the effort, IMO.

So, until something better comes along, I'm sticking with Netflix

Other considerations

[CustomDesigned]

• I prefer "out of the mainstream" movies that are unlikely to be found at a brick and mortar store. I am on the 9.99/mo plan because I don't have time to watch more than about 1 movie / week.

I am with Blockbuster currently, but I almost switched when Netflix "number of titles" was higher. Now they are neck in neck. Blockbuster complaints:

• Their email forges 'custhelp.com' as MAIL FROM despite repeated complaints from custhelp.com (and me).
• I've had "The Black Hole" at the top of my queue where it says "short wait" for over 6 months now. Will they ever send it?

But it sure beats picking over the leavings at the physical store.

Isn't that a pron fetish?

[SonicSpike]

With a name like "Redbox" I thought it was a fetish pr0n about mensturation ;-)

Hollywood Video on the Ropes!

[Big Sean O]

The Hollywood Video in my neighborhood just closed down. I got to believe that NetFlix played a part.

I've read about the throttling and I'm thankful that it hasn't happened to me. We're on a 3 out per month plan since Christmas and are very happy.

I've figure we're getting between 12-18 disks per month. Worst case, I'm paying $2 per movie.

I had 'short wait' for some items, but nothing I was hot to see right away.

IMHO, NetFlix needs to partner with IMDB.com and put "add to queue" buttons on IMDB (or better yet, someone should figure out a JavaScript Bookmarklet that does the same thing). Right now I have to copy, swap tabs, paste dance.

OT: Hey, there _is_ a Bookmarklet.

[Big Sean O]

Google Netflix IMDB Bookmarklet for a fistfull.

I should repeat to myself: if I can think of it, someone else already has and it's on the internet.

Re:Blockbuster and Netflix each have their own iss

[centuren]

In the last 30 days of Netflix subscription I've gotten 21 DVDs, and I'd wager that only about a quarter of them could be found on p2p networks at all, much less be downloaded in far less time than it takes Netflix to send them. Three 5-7 GB discs every two or three days (I do watch the extras) is much more than I can hope to download via p2p, not even going into quality considerations.

Perfectly fair.

[hackwrench]

There's nothing that's perfectly fair. Not even, I think, my favorite example of fair, killing everyone.

It's great for gamers

[DoctaWatson]

Those free brick-and-mortar rentals can be used for game rentals which normally cost an arm and a leg. It's a good way to stay on top of new releases, if you're already paying for the movies.

already made the change

[maryjanecapri]

from netflix to blockbuster.

i was with netflix for 4 months. i was watching about 2-3 movies a week and sending them back quickly. after a while they were sending me 1-2 movies a week. i emailed them and they sent me a reply quoting their "change in policy toward" that rewarded their less frequent users.

i then subscribed to blockbuster and, although they don't have nearly the selection that netflix has, haven't had the same problem at all. in fact i also get one in-store coupon per week for a free movie rental.

of course time will tell.

Haven't been in a Blockbuster in 5 years

[Odiferous]

Ever since they hosed me multiple times for fees I didn't owe. Maybe folks will forget that in a few years, but I won't. Even if they move to streaming movies on demand, I will use netflix, or billy-bob's video streaming, (or doing without for that matter) before I ever do business with Blockbuster again.

Gahcch! Urrkk! Pluhh!

[jonskerr]

Ahem.. ah, there we go. Throttling DOES still exist. I'm sure getting screwed anyway. Having replaced cable with Netflix, I'm definitely feeling the suckage. Pay attention to your emails; they say "X movie received" at something like 9:45 in the morning but the next movie in the queue isn't mailed until 24 hours later. Maybe it has something to do with how far away you are from their distribution center. I'm in the Twin Cities so I'd get one-day turnaround (a fresh movie every other night or so) if it wasn't for the throttling.

throttle rumor? How about the class action suit?

[jonskerr]

Dilholes! Throttling is no fucking 'rumor' the #2 above is part of the definition of throttling: lying about what's available. And maybe you joined after the throttling was in place, so you were unable to notice the difference, who knows? Who cares?

IF YOU THINK THROTTLING ISN'T HAPPENING, GO HERE:
www.netflix.com/Settlement?mqso=60178549

This whole thread is news to me.

[ClioCJS]

Wow, this whole thread is news to me. I really have never had a delay. I always return at LEAST 1 movie EVERY DAY THAT I HAVE ONE. 70% of discs we have for one evening. 90% of discs we have for 1 or 2 evenings.

One thing that I noticed -- You said you added it to your queue as soon as a date existed. Well, Netflix actually lets you "Save" movies that don't have announced dates WAY BEFORE a date is announced. I usually "Save" a movie to my "Save Queue" the first day I hear of it, the first time I see the trailer. Nobody is ahead of me.

So, to me, it certainly SEEMS like first come first serve. And that profit thing? I go thru far more movies than the average person. Read between the lines. The profit should be less for me, so I should be getting the movies I get within 48 hrs LAST, given your claims.

It's almost as if Netflix does things differently in different parts of the country, but THAT would make no sense either.

Just for reference, the "pacing" of my rentals goes about so:

03/25/04 04/02/04 Ravenous (1999)
03/26/04 04/02/04 Amores Perros (2000)
03/24/04 03/29/04 Drugstore Cowboy (1989)
03/22/04 03/29/04 Equilibrium (2002)
03/22/04 03/26/04 Gothika (2003)
03/16/04 03/24/04 May (2003)
03/19/04 03/24/04 Pink Floyd: The Wall (1982)
03/17/04 03/22/04 Liar Liar (1997)
03/15/04 03/22/04 Airheads (1994)
03/15/04 03/22/04 21 Grams (2003)
03/10/04 03/19/04 It's in the Water (1998)
03/11/04 03/17/04 Liar Liar (1997)
03/10/04 03/15/04 Roughnecks: The Starship Troopers Chronicles: The Pluto Campaign (1999)
03/03/04 03/15/04 Bruce Almighty (2003)
03/02/04 03/12/04 Perfect Blue (1997)

... And I never see a hitch or a glitch or a delay. Ever.

Go figure. I'd love to share some of the good service with everyone else who seems to be having problems. But no one in Northern Virginia that I know of (16 face-to-face friends on my Netflix friends list) has any of these problems described....

Re:This whole thread is news to me.

[edawstwin]

I did mean that I "Save"d the movie late last year (probably Novemberish) and then put it at the top of my Queue when a date was announced.

Your list is impressive. I have never received that many movies in that period of time and I get 4 at once (I have tried 3, 5 and 8 at once - no difference in the throttling). I usually return 75% of my movies within one day, and I keep one (usually a TV series disc) for 2-4 days, but I bet I am in the upper 10% of discs-per-month-per-dollar. My friend who rents 2 at a time, and keeps them about a week each gets almost every new release immediately, even if it's after Tuesday of the week of release. Her Queue status for new releases is always one level below mine (Short as opposed to Long, etc...) for the same movie if there is a wait. Another friend rents at about the same pace as I, and he has the same issues. Maybe the Northern VA Netflix just does it better, but here in Atlanta (distro center about 15 miles from me), it's vastly different.

I do notice that you don't have any new releases in your list (maybe 21 Grams and Bruce Almighty) for that time period, and they tend to throttle the new releases more than the movies with less demand.

Re:This whole thread is news to me.

[ClioCJS]

Yea, I looked thru trying to find a month with new releases, but I'm afraid my memory just isn't great enough to know what movies came out back then... (It was an old history emailed to me a good year ago.)

It must be regional then. Maybe there is a service issue netflix wants to correct, but they don't know about it! Where's grassroots activism when you need it?

Your comparison with your friends does indeed sound disheartening. I might badmouth Netflix in your position myself.

And yea, I think I'm in the top 10% of discs-per-dollar as well! :) It's the only place to be! People who don't milk their services for all their worth.. Well, I'm glad they exist, because they help pay for me. :) (I hit and run bittorrents too, though that is more for legal reasons than to be a dick.)

You Are Dumb (dot net)

[jonskerr]

Throttling has NO Effect on one particular movie, it's about throughput. I work 'til nine at night; I come home, make supper and want to watch a movie. Well, guess what dumbass? I'm fucking throttled, and the movie that should have been mailed yesterday and arrived today didn't get mailed 'til today, so I won't have it 'til tomorrow, so I have nothing to do tonight but sit in front of the damn computer again, which makes my back ache and I become Very Crabby. So what was ADVERTISED AS UNLIMITED is in fact, limited by almost half. I personally perceived this happening to me. I know you don't care, Lord Apathy, but hopefully others will see this and call Netflix's 800 # or send terse emails to their CEO and maybe they'll eventually decide to change their minds. As much as I hate Blockbuster, I'll go to them if they'll send me the same movies (uncensored) that I have in my Netflix queue.

Re:You Are Dumb (dot net)

[Lord Apathy]

Well whos fucking fault is that asswipe? If you wasn't such an asshole you might have other things to do than sit at home masturbating to porn on your computer or watching a movie all by yourself.

Gezz, fuck wad, get a life. There are over 50,000 movies at netflix, build you a queue and be happy like the rest of us.

Re:Gahcch! Urrkk! Pluhh!

[joshsisk]

Netflix also tells me it's "preparing to ship" movies for awhile after they arrive... I assume this means that some warehouse person has to go to some folder somewhere, grab the movie, and mail it to me. And not just that, but do the same thing for however many 1,000s of other people's movies were returned that day.

The real measure of whether you are getting screwed isn't if Netflix is mailing you a new movie instantly - that's kind of unreasonable. The real measure is how many movies you can get through in a month, if you watch them and return them the day after you get them. I generally watch my movies the day I get them, or the next, and I go through a LOT of movies a month.

I find if you manage your rentals so you never have more than 1 at home, and you dont hold onto any one movie for more than a few days (even if you return it unwatched), you can go through a huge amount of movies in a month.

How many movies can you go through in a month when you don't hold onto any movie for more than a day or two?

Insults don't make you right.

[Belial6]

I read your link. It specifically says in the settlement that Netflix denies throttling, and that the litigant feels that winning was uncertain. Did you read your own link?

Calling people names implies that you know that you are wrong, so you are resorting to trying to brow beat anyone that disagrees with you.

No, placing a priority on who gets the newest movie first is not 'throttling'. Look up the definition of the word. Throttling means that they are slowing down deliveries of movies. They have always been up front about the fact that if all the copies of a perticular movie are rented, that they will send you the next movie in the list. Calling #2 'throttling' is nothing more than newspeak.

Not really

[Belial6]

Not really. I quit using BB over 10 years ago. After the third time they tried to charge me a late fee that was returned well before it was due, I realized that they were crooks.

I don't know what they are doing now...

[Belial6]

I haven't rented from BB in over 10 years, but before I finaly gave up on them, I rented King Pin. The scene where Munts looks in his rear view mirror and halucinates his digusting land lord is doing the tounge between the fingers oral sex sign at him was gone.

Not with BB

[Belial6]

I haven't tried it with BB, but with Netflix, for awhile I would send two movies back in one sleave. This allowed be to get a decent pile of envelopes. I did this in case I lost or damaged an envelope. When I moved from Santa Rosa to Sacramento, I used the Santa Rosa envelopes, and had no problems at all.