Slashdot Mirror
ESRB Changes Oblivion's Rating to 'Mature'
kukyfrope writes "Perhaps reacting based on the debacle that was the 'Hot Coffee' scandal, the ESRB today changed the rating on The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion from Teen to Mature. From the article: 'The content causing the ESRB to change the rating involves more detailed depictions of blood and gore than were considered in the original rating, as well as the presence of a locked-out art file or 'skin' that, if accessed through a third party modification to the PC version of the game, allows the user to play with topless versions of female characters,' said the ESRB in a release."
if accessed through a third party modification to the PC version of the game, allows the user to play with topless versions of female characters,' said the ESRB in a release.
So is this out yet?.....
MMMMMMM...polygon'd boobies!!!
Click Click Bloody Click PANCAKES!
virtual boobs only had 5 polygons and we had to walk to school up hill, both ways!
Uh, you could technically mod any PC game into toplessness. Therefore all PC games should be Mature? Do I smell a console conspiracy?
GAAH! MY PRINTER IS ON FIRE!!! PUT IT OUT! PUT IT OUT!
If i make a mod for Oblivion allowing the player to engage in sexual intercourse would that mean the ESRB would have to rank Oblivion AO?
Basing the rating of a game upon the available third party content seems very stupid to me. I'm sure i'm in the majority of slashdotter who think that changing the rating of a game because of mods is stupid.
this does not bode well for the future of video game ratings.
Are you telling me that the ESRB doesn't understand the difference between included content and a 3rd party addition? There are nude patches for the Sims too. Let's see that go Mature. Ooh! And you can modify the art for Civilization games. Stamp those mature too!
It's the marriage with an Orc that summons a Mature rating.
Please stop entering code 2,2,7,6,6,4
Yes, and some people need to buy a sense of humor.
Just be sure to wear the gold uniform when you beam down -- you know what happens when you wear the red one.
There are several comments here wondering what's so different in this case, and rather than spam reply to all I'd just put my thoughts here.
The difference here is that the 3D model of the nude avatar is actually included on the disc. It's the same crap as Hot Coffee - it was created by the developer and shipped on the disc, but nothing was pointing to it. So a modder can go in and point to it.
Not saying I agree with this at all, just pointing out that this isn't your typical "nude patch" where someone creates a 3D Model of a nude Lara Croft and replaces the game model with the nude one. The modder would just replace the 3D Model in the game with another 3D Model in the game that just happens to be topless.
I love the game, but there is no way it should ever have been Teen. The necromancer and vampire lairs can be very graphic (If you've seen Memorial Cave, you know what I'm talking about.), way too graphic for a little kid. Decomposing bodies with a noose around their neck hanging from the ceiling? And a 'kicked out' chair underneath them? More decomposed bodies stuck to the wall with spears (Incidently, the only spears in the game, other than the skulls.)
Way too graphic.
Now if you'll excuse me, I'll go buy one of the last 'T'-labeled games, and sell it for a profit later on.
Would you kindly mod me +1 insightful?
In other news, "Spongebob Squarepants Typing" has also received an M rating, because it was found that a third-party modification could replace the opening "Who lives in a pineapple under the sea" movie with a porno clip of the user's choice. Seriously, since when does the ability to insert something lewd into a game mean that the game should get a higher rating? If I can start a game of Final Fantasy and call my characters "Fuck" "Shit" and "Ass", does that mean that the game should no longer be sold to children?
Why is the ESRB now adjusting a games rating based on post-release modifications? Have you seen what topless Oblivion is like? You have to be pretty desperate to get off on those lumpy misshapen breasts.
And, since they have started this crusade, why hasn't the Sims 2 been pulled and modded Adults Only yet? That has far more explicit mods and in-your-face sexuality. Hell, the only way to get ahead in that game is to have sex, and that only gets a Teen rating still?
If the ESRB is going to keep pulling this, all game makers should just slap Adults Only labels on their games and let the parents figure out which ones are safe for their kids, like they are supposed to be doing in the first place.
The surprising thing is how the ratings of both Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas and Oblivion only changed with third party users made patches to enable them.
In my mind, this is no different from the Bra and Panties Oblivion mod I've seen floating around (which changes the undergarments from boring brown to something lacy) - not Oblivion's fault as it wasn't meant to be seen when they shipped it.
The violence - OK, I'll deal with that, but notice that the rating change only happened when somebody went "OMG - there are boobies here!", and some religious nutcase went "OMG - can't have boobies there - think of the children!" ([sarcasm]Personally, I know that I've harbored deep hatred of all women since being exposed to breasts directly after my birth and the next year thereafter. I hate it when my wife shoves her large breasts in my face today.[/sarcasm])
Odds are, we'll see some press releases from "concerned groups/individuals" (we don't need to name them - that would only feed the trolls), I've already got a press release from IEMA about how fast they alerted the retailers so they could change the ratings right in the computer to prevent minors from buying it, and Oblivion sales might actually go up when 13 year olds looking to feel "mature" convince their parents to buy them the game.
52 Weeks, 52 Religions with John Hummel
From the article..."as well as the presence of a locked-out art file or 'skin' that, if accessed through a third party modification to the PC version of the game, allows the user to play with topless versions of female characters"
I think the problem is that the content in question is actually included in the game itself, though locked out. I'm not exactly sure what the developers were thinking, including those skins. After the whole Hot Coffee fiasco, you think they'd have learned.
Because, you know, you can't possibly confront young people with images of something they've sucked on 10 years ago.
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
Also, blood is evident from the beginning, and the world is highly interactive with stealing for the sake of it (takable items having no monetary value or use - i.e. planters, most of the plates etc.
In other words, IMHO, this was obviously an adult game. I love the game, and I hope that this re-rating will not invoke the flame wars caused by the frankly immoral (not just adult, immoral) Hot Coffee Mod and in fact GTA in general.
Phew.
This tagline was transcoded to result in at least one smirk. If you experience failure to smirk, please consult your Gen
I saw a video of this nude patch a few months ago, check it out here.
If i wanted to hear bullshit, i'd go to church.
I have been told by reliable sources that the ESRB rating board in fact contains nudity, and that it can be unlocked simply by undressing the board members. I must therefore recommend that this story be rated M, and that /. prevent minors from reading it.
English is easier said than done.
the PC version will carry an additional content descriptor for Nudity
If the nudity isn't available in the basic game but needs a third party hack, isn't it false advertising to claim "nudity" on the box? I'd expect a refund if I bought this and found no nudity included.
The real Ralph Yarro posts as Anonymous Coward. Anyone else is an impostor.
It will be interesting to see if Bethesda decides to pull the current version from the shelves and release a toned-down version to match the original rating, or if they're content with the Mature rating.
It will also be interesting to see how retailers respond; whether they'll pull "mis-rated" copes from the shelves. This isn't like GTA where the game went from M to AO, which most retailers won't carry.
I yearn for you tragically. A. T. Tappman, Chaplain, U.S. Army.
I bet it has less to do with blood and more to do with game physics. In Morrowind if you attacked something it pretty much just bled and died, there didn't seem to be much of a problem with that. Now when you kill something and wack it's body with your +2 club of Enfeebling it will flail about in a most humorous manner.
So in other words the stationary boobies aren't the problem, it's the jiggly ones.
Reality test... am I dreaming?
I would hardly consider any of the female models in the game to be anywhere near attractive, but i guess that doesn't matter when you'll be dealing with adolescent teenagers who spring erections with the change of wind direction. This wouldn't be necessary if Oblivion weren't so popular. Take any sleeper hit that happens to have some kind of "nude" patch and no one with an opinion that "matters" would notice.
You constantly struggle for self improvement - and it shows.
Hooray for bad Engrish on fortune cookies
If you don't want to participate in a guild where everyone is acting like 14 year old boys, don't join a guild populated by 14 year old boys.
Similarly, if you're a girl that wants to avoid being hit on by guys in games, play a male character. Hell, most of the female characters are really guys, and they're usually the ones trying to flirt with everyone else.
The lack of female gamers is due to a general lack of interest in computer games among females. Some of this might be inherent in their genetic makeup, but most of it is probably due to a general lack of encouragement girls get to pursue computers or other technical things, either as a career or a hobby.
In other news Barbie Dolls are being recalled and given the Mature rating because mods exist that allow Barbie to go au naturel.
I'm agneglectic, too lazy to care if there is a God.
Because the best way to demonstrate the strength of your ratings system is to REPEATEDLY CHANGE RATINGS AFTER ASSIGNING THEM.
As long as it's one Orc.
Polyorcamy would warrant mature in this political climate.
That's not quite how it works. I haven't played the game, but this is what I've gathered from reading the author of the mod's comments.
Most games handle clothing by making it directly part of the character model. Oblivion models character bodies and clothing seperately. Although this approach increases the complexity of the graphics, it allows more reuse of art assests. With this approach, you can mix and match body types and clothing without having to redo the artwork for the different combos. This patch simply removes the clothing layer.
Also, according to the mod author's comments, the topless women don't quite look right. The models were designed to look right wearing clothing, not bare.
Anyone up for labeling this scandal "Hot Mead"?
Insert Sig Here
Oh noes! Quick ESRB, slap minesweeper with an M rating!
The Oblivion female character is done as a nude model with a seperate bra added when not wearing any other top. This was done because different outfits cover different areas of skin - for instance, the chainmail top has a narrow slit between the breasts which revails a small amount of skin which is covered by the middle of the bra when topless. Plus, doing it that way makes it easier for mods to add things like backless dresses etc that don't go well with the bra.
The only nude mod I've seen so far simply removes the bra. The underlieing stuff was never really intended as a nude model and looks like a boob-job with tan lines and very strange lighting. Probably a nude mod with original artwork will come soon to fix those issues. I know at least one modder who did nude mods for Morrowind is active in the Oblivion mod community (Maboroshi Daikon) so the talent is definitely available.
After the hot coffee fiasco, Bethesda really should have had the sense to remove nipples and black out a little of the area around it, just so that they could say that none of the naughty bits in the nude mods were done by Bethesda.
Welcome to the land of the free . . . oh wait . . . nevermind.
I'm so tired of hearing the pat "if you don't like it, leave" responses. To quote something you may recognize:
I haven't seen a Slashdot for women yet, so where should she go?
Unfortunately, the author of the mod in question hasn't had any pussy since pussy had him, and as such, is unqualified to make such a statement since most real women don't look like the ones that you can see in the moments in between the heavy purple static on scrambled porn channels.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Why, only yesterday I was sickened to find that by cutting out and supergluing the centrefolds from 'Playboy' onto my television, I was able to turn the supposedly child-friendly film 'Bambi' into a cornucopia of filth. I have written to the head of Disney to complain and will be protesting outside my local Best Buy to demand this sick spectacle be taken off store shelves.
A book, present both in Oblivion and in Morrowind. Contents follow:
The Lusty Argonian Maid
by Crassius Curio
Act IV, Scene III, continued
Lifts-Her-Tail: Certainly not, kind sir! I am here but to clean your chambers.
Crantius Colto: Is that all you have come here for, little one? My chambers?
Lifts-Her-Tail: I have no idea what it is you imply, master. I am but a poor Argonian maid.
Crantius Colto: So you are, my dumpling. And a good one at that. Such strong legs and shapely tail.
Lifts-Her-Tail: You embarrass me, sir!
Crantius Colto: Fear not. You are safe here with me.
Lifts-Her-Tail: I must finish my cleaning, sir. The mistress will have my head if I do not!
Crantius Colto: Cleaning, eh? I have something for you. Here, polish my spear.
Lifts-Her-Tail: But it is huge! It could take me all night!
Crantius Colto: Plenty of time, my sweet. Plenty of time.
END OF ACT IV, SCENE III
---
(and make friends to the alchemist in Skingrad, she'll ask you an interesting question...)
Anagram("United States of America") == "Dine out, taste a Mac, fries"
This gives new meaning to the term "skin". Or is it old meaning? :-)
Wait, wait, wait... you're comparing breasts in video games... to racism and the holocaust???
"This thing does science so hard, you say, 'I've never seen that much science.'" -Sam
If your kid can unlock the art file, it is time to get a fucking clue and realize that your kid is more then capable of downloading more pr0n then you can possibly imagine. Further, these are just tits. This is not a sex mod. This is a human fucking body. I know the human body is evil and all, but grow the fuck up. Human females have tits. OMFG!!!11!!! Your mom has tits under her shirt and bra. That is right, even your mom has a little round circle of pink or brown skin with a raised pump. Guess what, your dad has a penis. Why in the hell are we so terrified that a kid might see what 50% of the population has? I know breasts are evil, but denying their existence doesn't make them go away.
If Oblivion had S&M mod locked away, I would understand the concern. They don't. They have nude models because all the characters in the game are dressed from the nude... you know, like real people. Maybe we should slap an M for mature on everyone's ass in the real world, just so that parents know that underneath all of their clothing they are naked, and nudity is the devils work.
I love America. I really do. There is no place on this Earth I would rather live. That said, some times we are so fucking uptight that if you shoved a lump a coal up the average American's ass, in two weeks you would have a diamond.*
*thank you Ferris Bueller.
When we're looking at a PC game that has custom skins for players, the difference between company-made nude mods and player-made nude mods is only time.
That is, the player-made ones come out first.
Tell me something...it's still "We, the people"... right?
If this is the case, it brings up all sorts of interesting questions about the nature of nudity, since the texture, on one model, is perfectly acceptable but the same texture, on a different model, is obscene.
It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere.
-Voltaire
lol, that's a lot of assumptions crammed into one post.. congrats :)
But you really need to stop masturbating to 12 year olds just because you haven't had sex with your sister for a long time by now.
I never said "if you like it, leave." You don't have to leave the game, just the guild. If you don't like the people you're grouping with, why would you group with them? Join a guild with more mature members. In the case of guilds, there are many, many viable alternatives.
I'm comparing the attitude that allows one to exist to the attitude that allows the other to exist. But apparently that's flamebait.
I've always pictured the color of OS zealotry as a sort of bright flamingo pinkish hue
Why is it that when you believe something it's an opinion, but when I believe something it's a manifesto?
I can't help wondering whether the ESRB has noticed yet that there's an NPC (with fully-voiced dialogue!) who asks whether you know what the local penalties are for necrophilia, then nervously attempts to pass it off as idle curiousity.
With your reasoning it is perfectly reasonable to claim that sex doesn't matter as well, because after all it is natural and everyone does it, yes even 14 year olds, Oh my gosh!!!
Point of fact is the repressive nature of this society doesn't stop squarely at the anatomy.
The problem that Americans have with nudity is pretty much incomprehensible to Europeans. We laugh when we hear about it, but actually it's pretty sad.
The greatest nation on Earth is also one of the most primitive and most inhibited cultures in existence. And as it's a core inhibition within the religious fundamentalism of the government, the cultural barbarianism gets institutionalized, and isn't going away.
Things like this remain around until the current generation of standard bearers die off. The inevitable conclusion is that if you're American but "enlightened" (you know what I mean, and if you don't then don't worry your little head) then you'd better spend part of your year across the pond, even if it's just for the yearly holiday.
Very sad.
I see the patch would allow me to "play with topless versions of female characters." Sounds like weird science all over again. I LOVE topless versions of femail characters!
I like toast!
Modders make 3rd. party hacks for plenty of PC games that result in naked characters. This has occured in FPS games for quite some time, and many other games. I guess ALL PC games should just be rated "M" because of this?
"You spoony bard!" -Tellah
'I', for 'Immature'?
Not A Sig
Actually, most female players play female characters. some play male characters.
But most of the female characters in the game are played by men. Depending on the game.
I don't know if statistics have been released for Oblivion yet, but if it's anything like any other mainstream RPG, then you can't say that most females play male characters.
If you can read this, I forgot to post anonymously.
Show your support for 'M' rated titles. Buy a copy!
My generation grew up on video games, starting with Space Invaders and the 2600. We're adults now, and, simply said, kid-safe content isn't as captivating for some genres as content that would get an R or NC-17 rating at the theaters.
Show your support, buy a copy of this title.
Stop-Prism.org: Opt Out of Surveillance
Content ratings make sense if they are based on the accessible content of the game-as-provided, and I guess there is some sense to including "locked out" content, though if you start rating based on what "what content could be experienced if you hack the game yourself and/or install additional third-party software that modifies the content", everything that comes out is going to be rated AO in a few years.
In some parts of the US it's not uncommon for women to nurse their babies in public. There is occationally public outcry about that too. Honestly, it does not harm children to see breasts. babies see breasts several times a day! It probably do more harm to children to criminalize *innocent* partial nudity.
As for some 14 year old seeing some pixelated topless woman after intentionally hacking a game. I don't really care, and I'm not convinced parents would make a big deal of it. The kind of stuff they show on TV is far worse (perverse) and most parents let thier teenagers watch that too.
Now game companies should get a clue and quit putting hidden content in these games. And if possible implement some image recognition to "filter" skins/mods that appear nude. The ESRB apparently takes itself very seriously (too seriously), and if you really are interested in being able to sell your games at Wal-Mart to teens without having them to bring an adult along then you really have to play ball with these prudish rating boards.
“Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
So would your mom's boobs get you turned on the same way [insert actress here] would?
No. Because thats DIFFERENT right?
I hate to break it to you, but FROGGER was completely nude. And don't get me started about Donkey Kong!
It's shocking, I tell you.
I just bought the game. Now I have to take it back. I would *never* buy a game that was for "Mature" audiences. ...
Seriously, let them rate it the equivalent of "XXX" -- It's simply a guide for when Jr. carries the box up to Mom in Best Buy and says, "Mommy! Mommy! I really want this game!" -- She can make a judgement of her own. Most stores carry all ESRB rating levels aside from "AO".
$50 saved again, thanks to over-reaction!
My ZooLoo
"...as well as the presence of a locked-out art file or 'skin' that, if accessed through a third party modification to the PC version of the game, allows the user to play with topless versions of female characters,' said the ESRB in a release." ...and if I set my windows background to a third party image of a naked body does that mean windows should have a mature rating?
In other news, Microsoft is the centre of a scandle involving their Windows product. It has been revealed that the familiar clouds background can be replaced with nudity!
So I'm addicted to Oblivion, at least an hour a day of late. It's a great game, and one of the aspects that builds on this is that there is a sense of Accountability in the game. If you outright kill someone, things change. If you steal, people get pissed at you. If you punch someone, they go rounds with you. Isn't it more important when rating a game that it enforces proper consequences upon the player?
This is in addition to how ridiciulous it is that you can Mod it, therefore it's MA. Guess what, I can render porn in another well known program, called Windows, so I want it rated MA too (MA for what I say when it crashes).
--
Goblez
- Kal`Goblez
Oh, hey everyone, you can see Kasumi's boobs in the Dreamcast version of Dead or Alive by downloading a modified save file that lets you view the Japanese intro that was left on the disk, somebody call the ESRB, it's still being sold used some places!!! (It's not as thrilling as it sounds, if I were you I'd just watch this (not work safe) instead.)
"MIT betrayed all of its basic principles."
Interesting idea. The altered model has to be installed in the "oblivion/data/meshes/characters/_male/" tree.
Isn't this like saying that children's books "contain" R-rated material if you cut them up and rearrange the words and letters?
Should we be rushing to pull The Lorax from the shelves, anyone?
Why, I heard that these videoed-game makers are full of pornographers that call themselves artists. And these pornographers start all of their character models in a naked or semi-naked state!
Can you imagine? They all start as filth! And they continue to be filth underneath their clothes. Just look at the disgusting... disgustingness. I think I'm going to be sick.
The ______ Agenda
The whole reason we have a private company rating games is because if they didn't do it, the Govt. would step up and take the job. So what if the the ESRB isn't perfect. It's better than Uncle Sam breathing down the necks of stores and developers applying taxes for rating + such.
OMG. Nippleless freaks! Definitely mature. We don't want to freak out our kids with anatomically incorrect depictions. Think of the trauma the first time in their ESRB "M" rated life when they see that they have been led astray...
Would somebody hurry up and release a hardcore pornography mod for "Barbie's Horse Adventures" so that people can see the idiocy behind re-rating games based on mods?
1/ If you mod Oblivion you can unlock nudity skins, so they need to treat Oblivion as if people will do so.
2/ If I modded my pants I could cut out the crotch so my old feller is hanging out for all to see. Does that mean I should be treated as if I will and locked up for potential indecent exposure?
3/ And if its possible for me to do this, its also nothing stopping Jack Thompson from doing this.
Conclusion: If Oblivion is classified as mature for potential modded nudity, Jack Thompson needs to be locked up for indecent exposure. It's amazing how ironic the world is when you use specious logic.
Blessed are the 1337, for they shall pwn the earth.
This is why noone imports the Japanese games I really want to play.
allows the user to play with topless versions of female characters
Now there's a candidate for rephrasing if ever I heard one.
Hal Spacejock: Science Fiction with Nuts
Personally, I believe this has a lot to do with the aging of America. The same dorks that were getting wasted and making babies in the 60's are now called Senator and/or Mr. President. Bush talking about the evils of drug abuse sounds about as believable to me as Shwartzenager talking about the evils of steroid abuse.
They have nude models because all the characters in the game are dressed from the nude... you know, like real people. Maybe we should slap an M for mature on everyone's ass in the real world, just so that parents know that underneath all of their clothing they are naked, and nudity is the devils work.
QFE. I don't know much about computer graphics, but I bet it's really really hard to make them realistic if you don't start with a nude model to wrap your textures around.
We're setting a stupid precedent here where developers have to now not only worry about the game content, but every portion of the game that players can hack together to make something racy. Are you going to start actually encoding some sort of tamper protection into your game to score below an M?
My message to the ESRB:
a ct.jsp.
I just heard that you re-rated The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion based on a third-party content patch that unlocks the base skin used under the clothing models.
This is absurd.
I can make a third party patch for anything that will turn any 3D model into a naked chick in The Sims 2, Barbie Horse Adventures, etc. What I or anyone else does to a game that we have purchased should not affect the rating of the unmodified game sold in stores. This is just a cheap ploy to get attention.
Their form is at http://esrb-web1.client.logicworks.net/about/cont
Let 'em know if you feel the same way.
You are still innocent until proven guilty. What's changed is what they do to innocent people. - notnAP, #26891325
I don't get where the ESRB does not understand the word "Third Party". So if I go back to Final Fantasy VII's PC version, turn Midgar into a sex resort owned by Biff Tannon with topless chicks, would the ESRB rerate the game an "M" or "AO" do to my lovely "third party" changes?
For $19.96, no less. It was still on the shelf, but the register was saying "sale not allowed" -- make a big enough scene about them putting merchandise on the shelf to sell but refusing to sell it, and voila! New addiction, less $$.
So basically they don't want kids taking the shirts off their dolly.
Better start checking IDs for all those Barbie dolls! We've got to think of the children!
What about The Sims 1 and 2? There is nudity in them and it can be modded and turned off.
\
exactly like GTA & their hot coffee disaster
Yep, more press for free, more copies sold. I personally didn't know the game. Now I do.
I am expecting more games in the future with hidden porn content like this. Just to stir up things later on. Easy to gain momentum back...
I wonder whether:
a) the developer got some cache bonus for doing that
b) he's been fired
c) it was orchestrated by the management itself
I bet on c.
When is the nudity rating insanity going to stop? Is nudity really so harmful that we need to take such steps? People see more than this when they get changed every morning. Maybe we should wrap toddlers in head-to-toe body stockings 'till they're 18 so they can't be corrupted by the sinful sight of naked flesh...
While we're at it, we need to rate breastfeeding as "Adults Only". Babies don't need to suffer such horrific trauma that early in their lives.
And birth? God knows what an eyeful those poor young newborns are exposed to! Quick, ban birth before more sweet innocent ones are irretrievably corrupted by more horrible, unnatural sights!
Sarcasm aside, if our teenagers are unable to handle the sight of naked breasts without being reduced to gibbering sub-human criminals then someone other than a game developer has failed them at some point.
There's a TOPLESS model for the female body included on the disc.
(I know, because the first mod I made for Oblivion--about 15 minutes after installing it, on release day--was a topless mod that used the model they provided.)
I don't think the ESRB decision was justified, but to play devil's advocate for a sec... they do ship the Construction Set with the game. Its not as if you have to have a "3rd party hack" to get at this content. You can access it using nothing but what is provided on the Oblivion disc, and fairly easily too.
On the game box infront of me for a T rated online game, right under the "T: Violence" part it says "Game experience may change durring online play.". How about when a publisher submits its game to the ESRB, one thing they have to tell them is if the game will have any sort of SDK, for creating mods. If so add "This game may be modified to reflect a different rating". Seems like that would be fair enough warning to parents, even though the majority would still ignore it and complain later...
It is pretty rediculous for a developer/publisher to leave content such as nude skins in the game, to be easily unlocked... Almost as rediculous as changing the rating of a game because of two nipples. The movie Titanic was rated PG-13 for fucks sake... and as I recall that contained nearly full frontal nudity.
My hand touched her hand. Her hand touched her boob. By the transitive property, I got some boob! Algebra is awesome!
Barbie dolls are now Adult Only toys, to be sold only in adult sex shops due to the fact that they have built-in nudity, and by modifying the doll (taking the clothes off) you can reveal said nudity which is not only unrealistic but exagerated for the purpose of sexual attraction (bigger tits)
Regardless of how those textures got there, the semantics of it are sorta like this:
1. There's the game as you bought it, and it doesn't show any nipples.
2. You download a mod which, regardless of HOW, replaces the bra texture with a skin and nipple texture.
Exactly what difference does it make where that texture was? If the mod was 100k larger to include its own textures, would that have prohibited anyone from downloading it? Well, no. Would an extra 100k have made the parent pay more attention to what little Billy is playing? Hah.
Or does anyone imagine that if the game shipped without that texture, someone else wouldn't have painted it? It's been done before for countless games which _didn't_ include nipple textures, and which in fact had the bra as an integral part of the texture. So what? It didn't stop anyone from recolouring that area, or swapping in a naked texture from another game.
So exactly what conceptual difference does it make? Why is it ok to have a naked mod for The Sims 2 or Morrowind or (don't laugh) SWG, but not in Oblivion? It's still something you have to explicitly search for, download and install, not something you can discover by accident.
If it was a case of "Oops, I bought this "Test Clothes" from a vendor hidden in a valley, and now my character is naked", _then_ I'd understand it. Well, ok, then it would be something that people (kids or otherwise) could stumble upon in the game as it was shipped. But that wasn't the case.
So let me tell you what it really is: idiotic hypocrisy. That's all. Bunch of retards trying to look more moralistic and puritan than the Joneses. "*GASP* You mean those nasty game developpers were playing with naked textures? Why, the evil perverts... let's punish them! Let's gather an outraged mob with pitchforks and torches!" That's all there is to it. A bunch of SFVs (Stupid Fashion Victims) and prom queens trying to be fashionably outraged, when they think it's fashionable to be outraged.
Groupthink is a funny thing. Or as Terry Pratchett once wrote, the IQ of a mob equals that of the most stupid member divided by the number of members. It's funny how whole towns or whole countries can be such a mob. Take a bunch of people who, taken individually, have nothing against X or pro Y, put them in a group where they think it's fashionable to be pro Y and against X, and watch them try to be the ones who scream the loudest against X and pro Y. Just to fit in the perceived group standards.
In this case, the perceived standard (at least in huge areas of the USA, but not only) is that to be a fashionable pillar of the community you have to be fashionably outraged by nudity, sex, etc. Watch the bunch of hypocrites try to outdo each other in being outraged of it.
It's freaking sad, that's what it is.
A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
People naked underneath their clothes! Society stamped 18+! ESRB vanishes in puff of logic! USA celebrates!
It's not necessary to paint nipples on the texture of the basemesh since they won't be seen but most game developers are male and a nipple takes seconds.
Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
That's funny. When *I* talk, I realize there's a difference between teens and little kids.
Namely, little kids are generally frightened by blood and gore, whereas teens (male ones anyway) generally think it's really cool.
So, yes, Oblivion is too graphic for little kids, which is why it was rated Teen.
--
"I personal[ly] think Unix is "superior" because on LSD it tastes like Blue." -- jbarnett
i wish all games came with locked content, that was the esrb would rate every game as mature and the system would collapse on itself. the rating system is total crap. any kid with the smarts to play these games can get much better than pixelated boobies from a simple search on google for "boobies".... not to mention the gore you can see on sites such as rotten. its all rediculous if you ask me. parents need to be parents and quit bitching for the government to do it for them. /libertarian rant
I think it depends on who is the butt of the joke. In the case of the first two posts, it seems more that the posters are making fun of themselves... "Oooh! Cartoon boobies! Lemme see, lemme see!"
I agree that sexism and racism are very serious problems, but let's have a little perspective here.
Just be sure to wear the gold uniform when you beam down -- you know what happens when you wear the red one.
Nipples are good things to have on a mesh. Why? It makes fitting clothing a hell of a lot easier. If you know where the nipples are, when you are working on clothing that goes over the chest you know where to drop cloth. Personally, I am glad that they made real human bodies. I know the human body is evil and all and your eyes burn out of your skull if you see a pair of breast, people need to get the fuck over it. Yes, naked women have breast. The human body is not evil. Being naked is not automatically vulgar.
My advice is this. If you see a naked person and they are not being lewd, chill out and realize that you too are naked under your clothing. If you see a woman in the park breast feeding her child, don't call your congressmen worked up in hysteria. If you see a woman at the beach without a top on, chill the fuck out because if you are a dude, you probably don't have a top on either. People just need to chill out. Witnessing breast won't cause your head to explode.
Dear ERSB: A modder adding nudity to the game? This is the software equivalent of a kid picking up a pen and comic book and drawing breasts and a mustache on Wonder Woman.
The Teen rating was appropriate. The Mature rating based off of third party modifications is not.
"To pass through the jungle; silence, courtesy, ferocity, as the occasion demands." -- Kamau, "Proper Passage"
On a mesh, yes. On a texture?
Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
You shouldn't underestimate the passions of the adolescent mind.
When I was 12, the strippers in Duke Nukem 3D would give me a hard-on.
It always scared the sh*t out of me when they exploded and became aliens. File under: childhood trauma.
Defining Statistics and Social Research
Damn straight it is. Actually, that's probably the kindest thing I'd call it.
We in the UK are blessed with a wonderful press /sarcasm mode off/
Just ten minutes ago I was in the local chippy (fish and chip shop)reading their free papers, I'm too cheap to actually buy one, I had just ordered sausage and chips, when I read the account of a former lover of our esteemed deputy leader John Prescot who I quote " liked big powerful men, but was disappointed to find that his equipment resembled a chipollata sausage" this was accompanied by a picture of the offending article ( the sausage thank god)
I immediatly changed my order to fish and chips