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Comcast Lying About Vonage
jehnx writes, "Apparently, Comcast is trying some new tricks to get people to sign up for its version of VoIP, 'Comcast Digital Voice,' according to Wang (of WangScript fame). From the blog post: 'Today my wife received a phone call from a Comcast representative who had called to promote their new "Comcast Digital Voice" service... Ordinarily, we don't mind Comcast calling us from time to time with new offers... [but this time] they proceeded to tell LIE after LIE in an attempt to convince us that Vonage was not as good as Comcast Digital Voice. Imagine how many people would be scared into using Comcast Digital Voice because Comcast makes them believe that Vonage is insecure and only works when your PC is turned on.' Is Comcast going a bit far in their techniques to lure in new customers?"
no encryption at all. Man in the middle attacks are very possible.
.. That Vonage can't retaliate by telling Comcast customers to turn off their cable modems huh? Tough shit - but I think there are grounds for a suit on false advertising no?
_Vishal www.squad9.com
AFAIK Vonage is not as good as some of the ISP's VOIP because they provide a separate network for their VOIP packets.
...to hear of Comcast lying about a competitor's product. Next thing you know, they'll claim that satellite TV goes out every time it rains.
Say, has Vonage reopened their Customer Service department yet? Last I checked, they didn't understand the concept.
do you really think this is Comcast, or some jerk rep that's trying to meet his quota or make an extra few $ on commission!
(Why did this posting make it through?)
Prospective service provider is lying to prospective customers about competitors! And smoking pot funds Al Qaeda! Story at 11!
In this case Comcast is partially correct.
They are selling a full DQOS phone service. This means that that there is full QOS when on their network. You are guaranteed that you will have the bandwidth for the telephone call. This cannot be said when you are using Vonage. Vonage over a DOCSIS connection is strictly best effort, meaning that you voice packets have no more priority on the line than you neighbors downloads. This will (if it does not already) mean that you will have inferior quality on a Vonage phone vs. the Comcast solution. Also with DQOS from Comcast you get priority for any 911 call. You cannot get this from Vonage.
Disclosure - I do work in the cable industry but for a equipment vendor not Comcast.
*shrug* The decisions of others does not prevent me from making my own good ones.
I have comcast cable internet and I can tell you that I have been so impressed with their upstanding citizenship and great service that, had there ACTUALLY BEEN A COMPETITOR TO THEM IN MY AREA, I might have thought about Comcast first. In all actuality, we have all been victims of Comcast at one time or another. Lets face it, Comcast is used to having their way. With little or no competition in the way of cable, it is no wonder that they are having trouble adjusting to competition. ____________ Just remember... "It's Comcastic!"
If they really are telling lies and they are really using fear mongering instead of honest product comparisons, then contact your fair trading /comsumer protections/ whatever offices instead. Alternatively just contact Vonage and tell them this happened and ask for their help.
Here on old /. a few people will try to pull a few funny points etc, but nothing concrete will happen.
Engineering is the art of compromise.
And when I compare our VOIP service with Vongage, I use the following facts.
"Vonage requires an internet connection, we do not"
"Vonage routes their calls over the public internet, which may result in poorer quality or dropped calls, we route calls over our private cable network"
"Vonage has a national 911 call center, we route 911 locally in your county"
"We are a local call center, where with Vonage, you may get routed to a call center in East India"
While I'm not exactly a fan of Comcast, its all too easy to get a lone CSR (in any company) who really doesnt know what he/she is talking about and will say just about anything to win back customers.
Heh, the confermation/security word I had to type to post this was "exploit".
The auto industry does this from time-to-time. Why, here's a pull quote:
"Hi, I'm the electric car.
I can't go very fast or drive very far.
And if you drive me, people will think you're gay.
Gay men: 'One of us! One of us!'"
If Nalgene water bottles are outlawed, only outlaws will have Nalgene water bottles.
when comcast first came to our area they laid down the same tactic only about DSL.
in the end it was the comcast customers that had issues.
I hate to say it, but I'm a Comcast subscriber. When I moved recently I checked into WOW, and while it is available in the city I live in, the apartment complex itself still has a contract with Comcast for another 5+ years. I had signed up for a new agreement with Comcast and got 6 months of cable internet for 19.95 for six months, when I moved they said this would still apply. Wrong, during the 3 days of calling to get my cable modem actually working I had to get the "flag" put back on my account every time.
During the move I had upgraded to an HDR box from Basic and also to their "Speed Tier" of 8M/768K for no extra charge, when a week after the install I found my speed had dropped to 6M/256K I called to bitch and they had once again lost my "discount flag" and were charging me full price for the Internet. Then I get my first bill and guess what, $70+ bucks just for the Internet portion. Their accounts department gave me a hassle over the $19.95 for Speed Tier but gave in and credited my account, while assuring me this time the flag would stay. Also had to go turn in my new out of the box modem for a DOCSIS 2.x compatible one in order to get their "Speed Boost", just because the contractor gave me whatever he had on his truck.
Second bill, same problem, called in and told them to fix it now, which they did. Third bill, same damn thing, at least this time they fixed it after only one 10 minute call instead of the usual hour holding and 20 mins getting the whole situation thru the account execs head. They once again assured me it's all fixed, but I'm sure I'll be calling this month.
Jonah HEX
Horror & SciFi Erotic Nudes
The lies you were told were nothing! The sales rep from Comcast told me that Vonage causes cancer, stole my girlfriend, and wrote the screenplay for Firewall!
In the telecommunications world, dirty tricks aren't new. They even made laws against some of the tactics.
And for those using Vonage with an ISP such as Comcast that offers a competing service, you haven't seen anything yet. The whole "net neutrality" argument hasn't even begun yet. Just wait until Vonage service starts getting worse while the competitors tout "better service" and such.
As a Vonage customer, I will say that I'm not totally satisfied. There are times when someone calls that I can hear them, but they can't hear me or vice versa. Some calls never ring. Some do, but only after the person calling has already sat through 6 or 7 rings. Sometimes, the person on the other end hears garbled voice despite me hearing them clearly and vice versa. Come to think of it, the problems started after Time Warner bought our ISP. Time Warner has a competing product. Coincidence?
I haven't seen worser choices since... the 2004 election.
;)
It's not "false advertising", it's slander.
Please help metamoderate.
Comcast isn't exactly my favorite ISP, and this certainly doesn't help. On the other hand, at least they offer a decent speed grade up in the Twin Cities, whereas my only choice in Rochester is Charter, which combines shitty service with practically useless upstream capacity.
Not that I'm completely sure of everything, but those old analogue phone lines that got replaced by Vonage service were insecure as can be, and Vonage didn't sell their service because its secure, they sold it because its CHEAPER! I'm also reasonably secure in thinking that Comcast has done more than just lie, I think they have done what they can to mess up how Vonage service routers work. Since Comcast changed to TimeWarner in my area, service has been much better, no dropped packets or dropped Vonage calls.
Comcast has every reason to be underhanded in their dealings with Vonage customers, and not much reason to be worried. Lets guess who spends lots of money in Washington D.C.? Vonage? or maybe its Comcast that spends more?
Verizon is also not trying to play nice either. They only want to offer good deals if you buy bundled services. This is business in the USA.
The whole argument about security is false, misleading, and only made to confuse customers... trouble is the media gets confused too.
It doesn't matter what voice service you use, it is susceptible to interception, end of story. The only thing that you can hope to do is make it more difficult to intercept it. Military grade encryption end-to-end is not available, and the US government won't allow it to be used anyway if they can at all prevent its use. (think of the children, or think of the terrorists) So the argument about which VoIP service is secure is a totally mute point.
Support NYCountryLawyer RIAA vs People
I recieved a similar call not too many days ago and the yound lady on the phone was trying ton convince me to sign up for thier digital phone service. I informed her that I liked my current service and did not wish to switch back to VoIP (I worked for a large VoIP (Not Vonage) company for 2.5 years) she then said this wasn't VoIP and it didn't require a PC. Long story short, she didn't know what she was selling, she was just reading a script.
This "article" is just a teaser to get people to hit the refered blog to score blogger's karma. C'mon editors.
Engineering is the art of compromise.
Imagine! A salesman Lying to a prospective customer! This must be standard procedure now at Comcast. If one salesbot is lying then obviously they all are, and comcast should be cast into the nether-reaches of our disdain.
Shift happens. Fire it up.
I have Verizon FIOS for Internet and phone right now, and the moment they offer TV, I can be done with Comcast for good... they got their TV franchise here a few months ago, should be a month or two, and then we'll be Comcast free, and everything will be running over the nice fiber pipe.
So glad there's finally some real competition for Comcast. I guess it takes one monopoly to take down another monopoly.
Companies often stretch the truth in advertising, sometimes to the point of outright lying, since they know the FTC (Federal Trade Commission) will likely do nothing; when the FTC does act, penalties (if any) are usually very light; $100K or whatever fine is nothing to a company taking in billions.
... with that said, at the moment, Comcast holds the winning hand regardless, since it has its own networks and has the ability to prioritize VOIP unlike Vonage which is basically at the mercy of the telcos, cable companies, etc.
...
On the bright side, Vonage is a big company too, and thus they can afford to play the deceptive ad game too
Old fashioned POTS (plain old telephone service) providers have Vonage beat, since POTS works even when the cable, internet, power, etc go out
Ron
Do many people really have fully reliable connection? Every place that I've lived had spotty high speed internet connection. It was up MOST of the time but there were definitely periods here and there where it would go out and be a bit before it came back on. Most people are used to much greater reliability with their phone lines. I can't remember a time when the line gave out on me in the middle of a call (unless I accidentally hung it up with my chin while trying to do more than one thing at once). If I need to call 911 I don't want to have to deal with the net being down. Periodically going down for short periods of a time is annoying when it comes to the net but it'd be infuriating if it happened with my phone. It's hard for me to understand how others would want VoIP services like Vonage or a Comcast equivalent unless they had much more reliable internet service.
Vonage pulled a lot of this SAME b.s. when I called to switch to Sunrocket. I found it difficult not to laugh at the service rep.
I had Verizon not want to install DSL because I was went with Speakeasy. I finally said, IT really doesnt matter to me, and they tech installed DSL *THAT DAY*. I switched after to Speakeasy, but at least I got my DSL installed.
People break rules, even if the company has policy in place.
Comcast's cable TV ads lie constantly about satellite TV, why should they behave any different here?
Seriously, cry more Vonage
That which does not kill me only postpones the inevitable.
Comcast has been nothing but crappy to me since they aquired AT&T's broadband division several years ago. They had absolutely no competition in the area, and therefore no reason to bother being decent to their customers. They lied about service problems, sent techs out who knew absolutely nothing about what they were doing, and then tried over-billing for their 'services.' This has changed with Verizon's major FIOS push in my area. The day FIOS became avalible I dropped comcast broadband like a rock and switched over. Part of the FIOS installation also involves converting the phone landline over to verizon's digital network, and it didn't require me to do anything! Now if only FIOS TV will come out I will be completely free of comcast. :)
When I hear things like this, I always wonder how much of it is the company and how much or it is the phone operator. I mean, I ahve heard sales people say some amazingly stupid things in the past. Often not because of any intentional malice but simply because they have no clue. Now, think about the person on the other end of the telephone. They are likely fairly young and are being paid ~$8-$9 an hour to sit in a chair and read a script to people on the phone. They have gotten all of an hours training on any given service if they are lucky. Maybe all they got was an e-mail or memo saying what the new spiel was. That, plus some comments overheard in the break room, are all they have to go on and they are being judged on how many people sign up. So, sure some of the time it is intentional corporate lies, but my guess is that it is an issue with the operator more times than not.
I hate when companies advertise or promote their product by putting down the competition (Comcast, Pepsi/Coke, Miller Lite, and so many others). If your product is that good, you should be able to sell it by telling customers the reasons to use it rather than reasons to not use the competition.
This means that that there is full QOS when on their network. You are guaranteed that you will have the bandwidth for the telephone call. This cannot be said when you are using Vonage.
So, you work for an equipment vendor that's busy setting up "QOS" equipment that will bump off competing VOIP traffic for "downloads" but not Comcasts? Would you say that Comcast is setting up equipment that's currently against the law? That's exactly the sort of anti-competitive behavior everyone worried about net neutrality is talking about.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
I was always very happy with Vonage Customer Service (moreso than i was with their call quality) because they were one of the few companies where a real human answered the phone on the first ring instead of sending you through some menu hell.
I suppose they probably got rid of that when they grew.
Yes. Next question.
The headline reads "Comcast Lying About Vonage." Nothing like "Customers *Allege* Comcast is Lying About Vonage," or any sort of qualifier at all. One anecdote, and Slashdot screams to the world that Comcast is lying. Because Slashdot is somehow an unimpeachable beacon of truth, with no biases, agendas, or opinions, and Comcast is just a bunch of greedy corporate scumbags who kick puppies at every opportunity.
You don't even have the decency of Fox News, who would have said "Is Comcast Lying About Vonage?" Nope, Slashdot is 100% above reproach, and has no interest whatsoever is hyperbole or copntroversy. Nothing to see here folks, move on.
I do not work for Comcast or any of its competitors or suppliers, and I don't know and can't really evaluate if the claims are true. But I know crap journalism when I see it.
Comcast should be using QoS to woo customers. Comcast should be able to provide better quality because they can better control traffic on their network. Vonage relies on lots of other providers, whereas Comcast probably keeps most of the VoIP traffic on their own network.
Nick
"A plan fiendishly clever in its intricacies"- Homer Simpson
PacketCable, which is what is used for these Cable/VoIP lines doesn't (intentionally) work like that.
DOCSIS has excellent QoS support. It supports what are called "Service Flows" when the modem is provisioned in DOCSIS 1.1 mode. Essentially, a service flow creates a secondary pipe to the CMTS that is completely independant of the other ones. Thus, there would be a second service flow, provisioned for 64 or 128Kbps, used only for VoIP, which has a higher priority than the data flow.
When using cable modem service, traffic from Vonage unfortunately falls into the "data" pipe, and therefore gets jumbled with the rest.
I don't feel that Comcast is being anti-competitive at all, they're using a feature of the DOCSIS specification that cable operators devised and use. Perhaps you need to take your case to CableLabs (and get laughed out by them).
-- Joe
it's probably one customer service rep desparte to make a sale. Most of 'em have to sell a certain number to stay employeed you know. When comcast training materials specify the lies, or at least a manager/trainer is sighted for encouraging this stuff, then I'll sit up and take notice.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
Who's not really shocked? :)
theyre marketing is totally dishonest. Sign up for the whatever per month deal say its 50$ then when your bill is 100$ they tell you oh thats because we dont include a b and c in that price.
I've had both Vonage and Comcast Digital Voice. In my opinion, the Comcast service was much better than Vonage. The audio quality was better, and there was no annoying lag. With Vonage, nearly everyone I called complained about how awful I sounded on their end (my end sounded fine).
Of course, this is just one data point. But I wouldn't buy Vonage again.
I think the best one was when a Comcast guy stropped by my house and told me:
1. Vonage uses Comcast pipes.
2. They could shut of Vonage anytime they wanted.
Gotta love the scare tactics.
Heck, Comcast lying? Never...
I mean, the whole advertising in the South Bay for Triple Play when their VOIP isn't available in Sunnyvale *or* Mountain View... that's not false advertising either.
Going a bit far? Yes. But it's not anything new. Comcast moved into my hometown recently where we have cable and internet through our town's electricity dept. Comcast has been going to great lengths to shut down the municipal cable/internet. First doing things like offering a special rate for town residents (that is, for our town only, none of the surrounding area) and only for 6 months. Recently, they've been doing things like going door to door saying that the municipal company is going to stop offering internet soon and that everyone should switch to Comcast.
Anyone else think the comments just weren't rendering right before they turned off ABP and saw ads?
In the US, it is _illegal_ to lie about a competitor's product.
IANAL, but _these guys are_
http://www.poznaklaw.com/articles/falsead.htm (horrid seersucker background, but they're spot on)
If this is true, then Comcast is _hosed_ and I would cheer on Vonage's lawsuit.
--
BMO
Ok, not entirely, but Vonage is a completely unencrypted service. It is the same as sending a standard email. If you are ordering things over a Vonage phone line and saying or dialing your credit card number, it is just like emailing it. Grabbing these packets off the internet and replaying them is exceedingly simple. As your voice travels across the internet, any router along that path could be used to dump those packets and a malicious tech or hacker who has gained access to that router can very easily steal your information.
Comcast probably suffers from the exact same problem, although the traffic is probably not traversing multiple provider's networks the way Vonage is and therefore the danger should in theory be less.
Seriously, does this shock anybody? VoIP is the next big disruptive tech, and it scares the bejesus out of the larger less mobile companies, given it's ability to bring the traditionally high cost of entry product to a much much lower level. Lest ye forget, that's exactly why we have to worry about the telcos fucking up the QoS on our packets ( ala net neutrality ).
:D
Of course, on the other side of the aisle is Vonage, and frankly I'd rather roll my own and get the increased feature set that something like Asterisk can provide.
But that's just me.
Mod me down with all of your hatred and your journey towards the dark side will be complete!
Of course, my Vonage service works when the phone lines go down.
Oh, and if my who house blows down, I can pick up my VIOP box... go to most hotels in the country... plug my Vonage VOIP box into the internet connection at the hotel. Guess what. I have my regular phone service back. Can't do that with POTS, and I'm highly doubting that you can do it with any of the ISP/Cable services.
Quite unbeleivable actually, the poster obviously doesn't understand the technology that well - nor apparently what the sales rep was explaining to him.
Yes, the call scripts are probably dumbed down because the Comcast call center employees have no idea what it means, but lets look at this:
E911 - Comcast isn't selling their service as a VoIP service, they sell it as a full replacement for phone service, and it is covered by FCC regulations. They have full E-911 which is distributed to your local PSAP (public safety answering point), not routed to a VOIP provider's network, and then (hopefully) to a PSAP in your area.
Network quality - while you may not like Comcast, they have vast resources in fiber and coax in the ground. They aren't routing your VoIP call 5,000 miles. Its hoping off the network probably 20 miles away before you even get close to the public internet. So what? I'll tell you why this matters. COMCAST CAN GUARENTEE BANDWIDTH WHILE IT STAYS ON THEIR NETWORK. This is important. Latency and bandwidth are key for a great VoIP call, if you don't have it, don't bother. We once tried a wireless link from an ISP. The bandwidth was there, but our calls would drop when someone else on their network would check their mail. Lesson learned. It isn't violating any rules or regulations, since they aren't passing the data off to the rest of the internet, they aren't restricting other people's traffic. They have no idea how to treat neautral 3rd party packets, QoS isn't maintained by most of the internet's backbone because the Internet wasn't originally designed for it. Even if it pops up here or there in routers, they can't effectively use it because QoS data on packets from other networks gets lost when crossing networks. Remember, the Internet is not a uniform network!
PC Myth - Okay, lets look at this one. You turn off your PC and you lose Vonage. Hmm, well, I can see how you might say that is lying. Last time I checked, I don't need any equipment inside my house to do Comcast Digital Voice, its powered by current applied to the coax line coming from the pedistal, and then the digital voice is split off before it enters the house by their converter. There is nothing in my house that needs to be powered by me, or even have me pay the electric bill to operate. Lets look at this even further, if you IGNORE that portion, Vonage doesn't use your PC? Some people use PC's as routers. Ever here of Internet Connection Sharing? In that case, you better not turn your computer off. Lets take it even a step further. Most end customers don't understand what VoIP is let alone who makes it and what the differences in services are. Maybe the line in the script was generic to cover ALL VoIP providers. Why is this important? Skype. Skype in most situations uses a computer and a USB handset. It is still VoIP, but it requires your computer. And Skype has more customers than Vonage. Comcast employees are more likely to talk to customers who use Skype than customers who use Vonage. So it should be in the script.
Okay, now that we've gotten all that analysis out of the way: Stop your whining. Comcast has a carrier grade network. If you don't want carrier grade voip, stick to vonage or packet8 or iconnecthere or skype.
If you want carrier grade, go with your ISP who can ensure QoS, local handoff to E911, and better VoIP service. E.g. Comcast, Speakeasy business VoIP, etc.
www.atacomm.com - The Leader in VoIP Product Distributi
Go read broadbandreports.com in the VOIP provider forums, there are a disproportionate number of people who complain about calls breaking up and dropping under comcast, no matter which VOIP provider. After researching for a few hours to pick a VOIP provider for my house, I began to see this pattern and just began to filter out bad reviews from people who had comcast for their ISP. Unfortunately reviewers of VOIP providers don't have to mention which ISP they use, though.
Some people on the site even claimed that the packet loss was there only for VOIP packets, which led them to suspect foul play beyond just the "best effort" routing failing to work.
Made me glad there is no comcast in my area, I already have enough gripes with optimum online capping me at 15k/sec up speed - out of necessity I had assumed - but then offering uncapped service for an extra $10 a month ($60 total w/o cable tv). Now that Verizon FiOS is here for a promotion $30 a month for 30mbit/2mbit, I'm tempted to switch but I don't like them either, because their planning to nickel and dime us just like comcast. Increased costs mean risk, and will result in fewer new ideas being tried and developed, so this is a threat to innovation itself.
We need net neutrality, or something like it. Each area has only one cable and one local telco, and I don't see how we can get more common carriers in here to spur competition. I feel they should be able to prioritize packets, but that perhaps it should be illegal for them to accept money for prioritization, to encourage them to work in the interest of their customers, who are the taxpayers that gave them common carrier status to provide for them in the first place!
Pfft. These doofs were clueless. First, at 70% deaf, I have serious trouble with accents unless they're speaking SLOWLY. This wouldn't be a problem, but when I tried to explain it, the first moron just ignored it. He had no idea what "deaf" or "hearing-impaired" meant when I asked him, and so I asked to be transferred to someone who DID. Same with the second, third, and fourth yahoo. I asked for a manager and FINALLY found someone who not only knew what "deaf" meant, but to also enunciate. Total call time? 50 minutes. Total time for me to ask the question I needed answered and have it answered? 30 seconds. 49 minutes, 30 seconds of hold time to find someone who knows the meaning of "deaf" is -bleep-ing ridiculous.
Don't tell me to get a life. I'm a gamer; I have LOTS of lives!
The SIP specification is pretty clear about TLS is needed to protect from many attacks. Do either of them use it? SRTP provides encrypted voice but do either of them use that? I really doubt it. It seems to me that the security they have deployed protects from only one thing - their customers making calls that they can't bill their customers for. I don't see them doing anything to protect the security concerns of their customers even thought there are standards based solutions available to do exactly that.
All of the "lies" would apply to Skype. Calling it Vonage instead of Skype seems like a pretty easy mistake for a noob to make. So I'm sure Vonage would be upset to know their name was (mistakenly) used in vain. Skype users probably far out-number Vonage users, and the point could be -- and should have been -- made that the most popular VOIP service around (Skype) isn't as good as what's available (with Comcast).
I use both Skype and Vonage and I can tell you Vonage audio quality is significantly better than Skype, better to the point that I can reliably send/receive faxes over Vonage but can not do so at all over Skype.
All I have to do is gain access to your backyard where the EA box is. THen simply tap it. In fact, I can easily put in wireless transmitter for my own use.
Or I can go to a nearby green box. It is absolutely trivial to break a POTS line.
And if that is not enough, I will grab one of my phones and stand outside your house and pick up your wireless.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
Comcast outsources most of its telemarketing to 3rd party companies. I know this because I used to work for six years for one of those companies. The Comcast marketing VPs were very interested in all kinds of metrics (sales per hour, cost per sale, blah, blah) and the bottom line. The only time there was any feedback vis a vis quality assurance was after the fact (IE someone calls in and complains).
The supervisors on the floor have little incentive to discipline their agents. If their team doesn't produce sales, they'll lose their job.
Same goes for the agents. They have little incentive to be 100% honest and often aren't. And even if they don't out and out lie, they're salespeople not technicians. Much of what they say is just flat out wrong.
Now, Comcast does offer some good products and often has some very nice offers (one for the Northeast was 100 days free with free installation, no contract) just like many other companies that use telemarketers. But why would you ever in a million years be surprised when a salesperson isn't on the up and up?
That's exactly what the tech told me as well when I called them. It seems whenever I am uploading heavily, my outgoing voice quality drops to unintelligable...
Anyone who lies in an advert should have their tongue cut off.
I don't know whether it would solve the problem, but it would be damned satisfying.
Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
Well, let's just say my Powerbook is evil. Almost every private wireless network -- cheap Linksys and Dlink boxes -- get killed by my laptop. As in, I connect, and they crash.
That said, almost every time I've had an Internet outage here, it was the damned Linksys box. I don't know how it happens, but I do know that power-cycling the thing is all it takes to get online again.
Also, this kind of thing makes sense for me, at least. Let's say my phone went out -- I wouldn't even notice. I have a cell phone, but I don't even use that much. Now let's say my Internet goes down. Now I can't work -- I rely on online documentation and Google to keep myself sane while programming. In fact, if I need to dial 911, but the phones don't work, I can easily use the Internet instead -- run through my IM list asking people for help, to dial 911 for me.
This is actually pretty hypothetical/irrelevant now, because I'm on DSL -- chances are, if the phones go out, the Internet goes out. It's a bad thing to have all your eggs in one basket, but this can never work with DSL, only cable or fiber. And how many people even think of the Internet as a backup for 911? How many people buy a second phone line, in case one goes out? How many people actually have redundant Internet connections?
Put simply: real network outages simply aren't common enough, relative to phone outages, for it to be much of a nuscience. In case of emergency, yeah, it's bad, but you can always grab your cell phone, run to your neighbor's, etc etc.
And consider the flipside of putting all your eggs in one basket -- you can make a fucking TANK out of that basket. As it is, we have to maintain two separate networks and keep them running. If POTS dies, we simply have to keep Internet up in order to allow 911 dialing to work. We'll have a lot more resources to do that -- all the resources that would normally be keeping POTS up, in fact.
Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
What they do on company time is mostly the company's responsibility. They rightly bear the blame, whether it's malice, lack of training, or stupidity.
Now, it is possible for corportaions to draw lines around what they will be responsible for. I wish they did that more -- for instance, a corporation should not be responsible for any damage an employee causes on the Internet, and thus should not have to set up facist firewalls. You can allow your employees to blog freely, even a company blog, so long as they put up disclaimers of "These are my opinions, not necessarily the opinions of <corporation>." Even Slashdot has such a disclaimer. But as soon as they are actually speeking for you, whatever they say is your responsibility.
As soon as the rep said "Vonage only works when your PC is on", it became a corporate lie, no matter whose idea it was.
On a related note, I propose a new word for unreasonably strict network policies: Berlin firewalls.
Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
Apart from the obvious...'omg! you mean salespeople lie'...I'm worried about what a bunch of privacy freaks we're becomimg. C'mon folks... Who do you think is listening in on your conversations about "bring home milk" or "Man, that new chick in accounts has a great rack"? Latest scores in.... Fear and paranoia 1 / Get a grip 0
From the BPI+ spec: So an HFC network with BPI+ implemented affords more security than a POTS/DSL line since it is encrypted from end to end.
You've obviously never had static/poor call quality on your POTS line. You are lucky.
Also, PacketCable can provide clearer calls.
I personally work for a cable company and can confirm that some in the call center are misinformed about products we provide. I would not put this in the 'malicious lie' category by any stretch. Do you honestly think large telco and cable companies only hire CSRs with degrees in electrical engineering and computer science? Of course some will get it wrong.
This is FUD and I call shenanigans on his wife. I'd bet money the CSR said something about the phone not working when the CPE(customer premise equipment) is not powered. That would be true. That's why cable companies provide batteries for their eMTAs(phone adapters) for when the power goes out as well as UPSs for the CMTSs upstream.
Haha owned. Nice post.
"Vonage has a national 911 call center, we route 911 locally in your county"
Their national 911 call center is just a backup. I've called 911 from my Vonage phone, and it routes to the local 911 center.
The *also* have a national 911 center as a backup, e.g., if you're using Vonage from somewhere other than your home and they can't tell where. Does your "small cable company" offer that, too?
"We are a local call center, where with Vonage, you may get routed to a call center in East India"
Ah, good ol' FUD. "You may"! I've had Vonage for a year, and once it was set up, I never had to call them, but the couple times I've called while getting it set up, I don't think I was routed to East India. At least, if I was, it was enough to fool a native English speaker in America (both in terms of accent/dialect, and helpfulness). But "you may" get routed to East India, and you just can't take that risk! Oh no!
"Vonage routes their calls over the public internet, which may result in poorer quality or dropped calls, we route calls over our private cable network"
Ah, good ol' "may" again! When you have no facts, and aren't really sure of anything, these kind of weasel words are great for convincing potential customers that they need what you're selling. Come on: if your competitors' calls are lower-quality, or dropped more often, then *say so*. No more bullshitting.
While I'm not exactly a fan of Comcast, its all too easy to get a lone CSR (in any company) who really doesnt know what he/she is talking about and will say just about anything to win back customers.
I think I know what you mean...
I posted this because I thought this was a very interesting topic worth having light shed upon it. The site, readyresponse.org, is not even a blog, to be clear. In my original submission, I didn't put the word "blog"; this was added later by an editor. Wang, the writer of the article, had nothing at all to do with this, and in fact didn't even know I posted it to slashdot.
"1 Telling us that Vonage calls were of poor quality"
"2 Telling us that Vonage only worked when our PC was switched on."
Vonage can sometimes be unreliable when it shares the same bandwidth as other devices. Torrenting, gaming, or even the neighbors at peak times can have an effect on your connection. Why would Vonage be any different?
If an unknowing user were to follow these suggestions blindly, comcast could appear to be right.
WangScript? Some mIRC script that I've never heard of? How about telling us if he had any ties to Wang Labs, the 80s powerhouse, or to the Wang VS mainframes?
-Rich
I wonder if the author is one of the unlucky Vonage customer who were offered stocks in Vonages IPO.
6 .html "Some VoIP services surpass traditional phones". Only cable providers have better quality than regular landlines. Vonage does not.
I think they were offered at $16, and now they are $6.
Accrding to http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20060922-780
BTW: Who the hell wants to use Vonage anyway? Broadvoice and a bunch of others allow unlimited international calling, and BYOD (Bring your own device) and asterisk.
"Fix it"
Even though the date on the article is "only" almost two months ago, the comments posted to it are from February 10th.
do {print "Mini-Geek Rules!\n";}
until ($TheEndOfTheWorld);
I recently switched from Vonage to Sunrocket two months before their IPO - Vonage was raising prices and adding "federal surchages" that didn't need to be there. It was a major hassle to get Vonage to cancel the service, and they lied about how Sunrocket was horrible and more expensive, not a real company, and a whole list of bogus crap.
So in my book, what goes around comes around.
...in their commercials against DSL. They put in *very* fine print at the bottom that they are comparing their absolute top speed product against the slowest possible DSL product. We all know that a top versus top comparison would certainly be fairer. The never seem to mention the slowdowns you get when everyone else gets on with you in your local area ;).
Loading...
SO I'm wondering if they are intentionally tanking my VOIP traffic.
About Sun Rocket - I have had it for about a year. They are a great company. Lightning took out not only my local network (and a bunch of other stuff... hit VERY close, very strong!) one time, it fried the sun rocket. They had another one at my door FedEx next day. When I was in Florida I hooked it up to the internet connection where I was staying and it worked just fine. The help staff is very useful as well. I don't know anyone that has Vonage so I don't know how it compares.
This makes a conversation I had with my dad recently, make more sense. He had Vonage before, but couldn't get it to work when he returned to his house after vacation. He signed up for Comcast Digital Voice and was having trouble with that too. Vonage offered him a good deal and he called Comcast to see if they would beat it. NOW HERE IS THE INTERESTING PART. He was listing the pros and cons of Vonage vs. Comcast and he said, "I don't like Vonage because I have to leave my computer on all the time." I told him that wasn't so and explained why. I never asked why he tought this was so. He's 72 and has never been big on technology, so I figured he just didn't know how it all worked. It appears as if he was a victim of Comcast's FUD campaign.
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
I can't stand Vonage. I had them for 3 years, and when the adapter they initially mailed to me dies, they replaced it, but claimed I sent them an empty box. After a 3 month dispute, where the cost was credited back, and I was forced to hold for 45 minutes each time, I finally changed my CC# and told them to keep their crap. At least Comcast phone has true, working 911, faster number porting, and doesn't travel from my location in Jacksonville Florida, all the way to Edison, New Jersey, across the public internet. My call terminates in Jacksonville's headend, and does not cost me bandwidth to deliver, as it is handled on a different part of their (Comcast's) network. I now use Comcast for my home phone, and SIPPhone/Stanaphone/VoIPUSER.ORG for my Asterisk VoIP PBX, which Vonage wouldn't support. I pay less for the 8 phone lines I have on Asterisk that I did for the one Vonage line, and this is truth. Explore your options, because for the quality and price, VONAGE SUCKS!
I know probably this is not the best way, and I've got nothing to win here (except if too many people sign up, maybe my quality of voip will go down): I've been using Acanac for over a year and it works great - about $18 a month , no contracts, no fees whatsoever, no rental fees, free north america calling, free caller id, free voicemail, free call-waiting,.. and you can get even further discount if you prepay for a 3,6, or 12 months at a time (again, if you want to cancel at any time, you get your money back)
I was a comcast customer.
I found that they blocked everything that was not thiers.
I also was able to prove that as soon as I connected a VOIP call my connection tanked
With the proof I was able to get out of my contract.
-- I am the NRA, enough said...
I've had Vonage, and I currently have Comcast's Cable Service. First off, I dumped Vonage after 3 months because the service was terrible. The quality of the call wasn't very good at all. Second, they couldn't get my ph# ported over in 3 months (not exactly their problem, I know). What further infuriated me about them is that when I called to cancel and gave them my main reason (inability to port my #), they put me through to their high pressure closer who told me they could port my number in under 24 hours. When i asked why they couldn't do it previously in 3 months, he didn't really have an answer.
Now, I've heard from numerous people that Comcast is intentionally sabotaging Vonage's quality on their network. I don't know if it is true or not, but Comcast has the power and motive to do it. The engineer I worked with a Vonage to try and improve the quality was stumped. He said I should be getting optimal quality, and yet it always sounded bad.
"We are technical people, with backgrounds in IT security. We are fully aware that there are always risks when you connect a device to the Internet...but it is complete nonsense to tell us that anyone can listen in on our Vonage calls just by connecting to us over the Internet. For the record, our Vonage box also sits behind a hardware firewall/router."
/shrug.
Comcast routes its VOIP services through its private network to the telco switch. While it utilizes VOIP technology, it does so on a secured network. That's the rationale behind the security claim.
As for the other two statements - while I find Comcast's VOIP service to be cleaner than any I've used - Vonage or otherwise - I can see why others might be perfectly happy with their current VOIP provider. I have no idea why the representative claimed your PC had to be on, unless they were thinking Skype.
Well, you know the old saying: "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a rigged demo". - $RANDOM
I'm a customer of both Comcast and Vonage. I won't say that Vonage is perfect, but for $25/month, it's pretty fantastic. We've had voicemail outages (voicemail doesn't pick, we can't check voicemail), and that sucks, but it's been very rare (3 times in a little over a year for a couple hours each time). We've had more trouble, in fact, with our Comcast cable modem and Comcast cable TV going down. Generally, the weak link seems to be Comcast, not Vonage.
My wife and I were at a local festival, and Comcast had a booth. I had to figure out why they could have the balls to advertise $40/month for what sounded like the same thing as Vonage. I told the rep that I was a Vonage customer, and I was willing to listen to his schpiel. "See, you're driving a Yugo, and what we've got here is a Lexus!" Uh huh.. So, what makes it a Lexus? He rattles off some features. Vonage includes every one of them. Oh, and Vonage includes calls to Canada and Western Europe. Hmm?
"See, you're driving a Yugo, and what we've got here is a Lexus!"
I thought I gave him a fair shot, and he had no actual arguments or points to make. I'll stay with Vonage, thanks much.
The quality of service would only have to be better than somewhere between cow and dog feces to be better than Vonage.
Seriously, once my year contract is up, I'm going somewhere else. Dunno where yet, but I'm not staying with Vonage.
That said, I wonder if I should be surprised since I'm only paying $15 a month. I guess for that rate, it isn't HORRIBLE. But it's close. The voicemail is especially unreliable. And their customer service leaves a LOT to be desired.
I worked as a tech support agent for a US Cable highspeed provider (not comcast), and each and everytime I got a call from a customer on either our VoIP solution or Vonage the call quality was completely garbage unless they were the only one in their area that even knew what the internet was. Out of all the calls I recieved from VoIP customers 2 or 3 of those calls werent dropped and sounded half decent.
Also alot of Vonage customers didnt know if they had digital phone service. Most would assume I was asking if theyre physical phone was digital. This resulted in alot of dropped calls when working through a connection issue (9 out of 10 times it was the vonage "router" that screwed up the connections).
If it takes effort to do, let someone else do it.
To add to the comments on Comcast's quality besides being able to provide QoS on their own network they probably have a FE connection to a CLEC (or multiple depending on locations) that provide their termination to the PSTN. Probably they would get an 8ms rtt between CM and PSTN GW.
This isn't news to me. On no fewer than three separate occasions in about four years with Comcast, I have had service outages long enough to cause me to brave their call center. Here's the record on this:
1) Called and was told they were doing work in my area; that service would be restored in "a couple hours." The next day it was still out. While heading out to the car I noticed that the line to the house had become disconnected. I got a ladder, plugged it back in, and it worked fine.
2) Called and was told, again, they were doing work in my area; that service would be restored in "a couple hours." Called again when service was still out the next day. Was told they would send a person out -- this entailed a ten day wait. When the service guy arrived, he told me that the line splitter on the street was not only corroded but had been installed backward. Not sure how that's possible, but there it is.
3) Called and was told, yet again, they were doing work in my area; that service would be restored in "a couple hours." Ten minutes later I reset all my equipment and everything worked fine.
Fact is, "work in my area" is apparently a lie common to call center vermin. And Comcast doesn't care that they do this. Lovely.
// This is not a sig.
Since when does the marketing Dept of any company tell the truth? Especially when coparing their product with a competitors! This is everyday business and shouldn't even be news.
Professional Politicians are not the solution, they ARE the problem.
..just like the Vonage commercials. Vonage needs to spend that money they milked from idiots, I mean investors, on an advertising campaign that works better. How effective is their current strategy working? Every ISP now offers a bundled phone service and most offer some sort of QoS that may or may not work, but they are still trying. My ISP has now lowered their price so it is competitive with the amount I pay Vonage, but I am staying with Vonage until the ISP price is better, or becomes a bundled service, or Vonage runs out of money. The perspectius on their stock said they don't expect to be profitable, glad I read that first otherwise I might have wasted some money.
I think Vonage may be suffering from a branding issue like Tivo is. Most people call any PVR a Tivo, and the same thing may be happening with people thinking that any VOIP service is Vonage.
I also do believe that Comcast is directly behind this. I live near Batavia and remember how hard Comcrap and AS&S fought the proposed municipal TV and phone service, then reneged on their promised upgrades after they got the ballot defeated.
no
I am the technical director for a VoIP provider I won't name (it's not Vonage), and I can tell you that Comcast has been a thorn in my side for a long time because of this nonsense.
Whenever a customer calls complaining about voice quality, it's almost always latency or some other issue with their connection; VoIP is, as you can guess, very sensitive to connection quality.
Comcast has been one of the worst for us, though other cable providers aren't much better (Time Warner, I'm looking in your direction). I cannot prove it, but I'm certain Comcast is doing some sort of traffic shaping for VoIP packets not their own, and it wreaks havoc with my company and many others, because we can't do anything for the customer except tell them "take it up with your ISP".
I think we all know what the ISP's invariable reaction is. Some tier-one flunky goes "Yup, signal looks good! No problems here!" and the customer comes back to us and there's nothing we can do about it. It doesn't matter how many pingtests, traceroutes, or other measures you offer them -- the cable companies have been notoriously unhelpful in getting their act together. Worse still they'll offer outlandish suggestions to the user, like "getting a static IP might help" or "upgrade your connection to six megs", neither of which will do a damn thing (well, the latter might, but it's not likely that bandwidth is the problem).
Now I admit that part of this is that VoIP over public residential/business connections is purely "best effort", especially the RTP stream is delivered via UDP which most ISPs and backbone providers consider less important than TCP. Contrawise, Comcast and other integrated providers can QoS their own VoIP packets any way they like. But for an ISP to leverage this fact to spread misinformation or misrepresent what is actually going on is totally ridiculous.
Part of the problem is that most people really don't know anything about computers or the internet. They'll tell you "but I have a fast connection! It's three megs!" because they don't understand the difference between latency and bandwidth, or they'll point out that their email and websites load really quickly. From this end-user's point of view there's nothing wrong with their connection that should cause their VoIP phone to suck, because "everything else works", and I partially agree with them -- they shouldn't have to constantly harrass their ISP to stop screwing around. (My disagreement is my cynicism of caveat emptor, and it wouldn't kill people to know a little something about how the service works, at the very least so they know to whom to complain when something goes wrong. In essence they're bringing a car to the mechanic complaining that the ride is bumpy, when the problem is the road outside their house is full of potholes.)
But even my cynicism has limits -- as a matter of fact I had to go through this same crap with my home cable provider, Charter, and it took nearly two weeks for me to get them to deal with the problem. Keep in mind that's someone like me, who knows what he's talking about, who is in IT, who can provide useful information about where the problem lies, and knows to whom to speak and how to phrase the problem to get results. What is your average user supposed to do, when they don't know anything about this stuff?
When it gets to that point, and the ISP is telling them things like "reboot the computer!", the user sees only a few choices -- get a new ISP, or get a new VoIP provider. And here comes Mr Comcast Droid with his promises of high quality, one bill, blah blah blah, and the user thinks that sounds pretty good, so they make the switch.
Also, for those of you griping about security of VoIP, I get that question a lot too. It's not particularly secure, but I find it amusing that nobody asks that question when they're getting a copper line from the local Bell, which isn't secure either. At least to eavesdrop on VoIP you'd have to have access to one of the routers along the path, whereas any ten-year-old can plug a handset into the phone interface on the outside of your house (my friends and I did it all the time to bug my sister).
mirrorshades radio -- darkwave, industrial, futurepop, ebm.
...who'da thunk it.
They keep trying to sell me TV service and won't stop talking about how their picture quality is better than satellite.
No, it's not. In fact it's not even close. I've tried it and it stinks, even the digital service. Heck, on local channels we get a better signal off our rooftop antenna. But they won't shut up about it.
I don't feel that Comcast is being anti-competitive at all, they're using a feature of the DOCSIS specification that cable operators devised and use. Perhaps you need to take your case to CableLabs (and get laughed out by them).
Yes, bullies like to laugh, so I think it's time to hurt those feelings you are talking about. The behavior is anti-competitive, regardless of what acronyms and double talk you use to describe it. Unless the cable company offers me the same bandwith deal for other "data" as they offer me for their own "service" they are abusing their network in an anti-competitive way. The use of a second modem is entirely superfluous when they could just change the bandwith crimp. If they are discriminating on packets, they have broken net neutrality directly and must be willing to pay the fines associated. Those fines should be jacked up to prevent this obviously anti-social behavior which will leave us all with fewer service provideres and poorer service.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
As a current slashdot reader I take offense to this statement; I had a girlfriend, once.
She had sandy blonde hair, pretty good looking face... I'm just kinda T.O.'ed, because she never did send me a full body shot...
My apologies to Kip Dynamite
I had an interesting experience with Comcast not too long ago. I have had Vonage for quite some time now, and have my Internet service with Comcast. A few months ago, my Internet and Television service randomly stopped working one evening. I called up Comcast and had a recording saying service was out in some places in my area, so I didn't bother waiting on hold. The next time, the service was still out, and so after quite awhile I got through. (All the while, on my cell phone, which has limited minutes, since I got tired of paying so much for it when I have more than enough minutes with Vonage).
Comcast tells me they can get someone out to fix it, but it will be about 4-5 days. Okay fine, I'll get a credit for the time and I guess that's good enough. It turns out they had accidently disconnected my service while connecting a neighbor.
The amusing part of it all, is that while the guy is telling me it is going to this long to get fixed, the guy tried to sell me their VoIP service. (I never told them I had Vonage). I should have responded, "So, you want me to sign up for your phone service, so the next time this happens I won't be able to call and complain?"
Maybe if you have Comcast's VoIP service they put you at the front of the service queue?
What?
This is called, the Verizon Technique. Quite Common.
I see $39.99 for comcast voice. Vonage is $24.99. What is the extra $14 going to? I already have everything they could offer. And when I move my phone moves with me. I already have had 6 months free from vonage due to sign-ups. I do not see anything like that from COMCAST. I suspect the ability to put a toll road on the internet (thus effectively blocking certain ports and speeds) is a attempt to stop their lucrative new phone system at COMCAST. Comcast needs to stop whining and call the unforseen prices they are incuring as just the cost of doing buisiness and maybe better look at the real price we pay. Somehow I do not think they are honest. No wonder why they killed TechTV.
Their QC is horrible. I have moved several homes back to qwest (not a prize winner themselves, but ....) because it is bad. Their installers do a lousy job. Worse, comcast has the advantage of being able to stream theirs down a different channel or just giving better QOS on their packets, but they only do it after threats of leaving them. One of the homes that I moved back to qwest had OK coming from comcast, but within 3 months, the service had degraded again.
Hard part is trying to figure out which is worse; comcast or qwest. Both are monopolies (in their markets, but oligopolies WRT to telecoms) and are ran that way.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
Ahh, it's good to post about security again.
With cable you're on the same LAN as your neighbors. You may have hundreds of neighbors in that sense. Beyond that, security can vary from one provider to the next, and has generally gotten better over time. Cable modems can and do filter packets. In one setup, for example, you could see neighbor's computers over any protocol that uses broadcast frames, but you couldn't see their traffic with Ethereal. DOCSIS 1.1 locks things down further.
> So, you work for an equipment vendor that's busy setting up "QOS" equipment that will bump off competing VOIP traffic for "downloads" but not Comcasts?
Or 911 calls. Or in-band signaling. You don't know a damn thing about what he does.
But hey, all QOS is TEH EBIL cuz it isn't net neutrality, right?
Done with slashdot, done with nerds, getting a life.
Is Comcast actually VoIP or digital phone service. My understanding accoding the *Cox* digital phone offering is that there IS a difference. Cox has digital phone service which is regulated to abide by the same standards set by the FCC for standard phone carriers, whereas VoIP offerings are not. Also, my understanding is that VoIP is routed via the same mechanisms that route your internet, whereas the digital phone service uses the lines with a different infrastructure for routing of digital phone.
If they aren't lying to displace Vonage, their in colusion with the local networks to make the public think the only path to HiDef is Digital cable.
Hello! ATSC exists!
When Comcast called, I told them, politely, to fuck off until the price was $10 less than it currently is.
I'm not paying $34 a month for unreliable telephone service. (Power goes out -> telco phone still lives.)
Don't blame me -- I voted for Roslin.
When my town put municipal fiber to the home on the ballot (twice, the second time with no risk to taxpayers whatsoever), both Comcast and Ameritech flooded the city with color glossy scare-pamphlets that were packed with lies. They also told their employees there would be hughe layoffs if the measure passed. The measure was defeated, and of course layoffs followed anyway.
"But all your emitter and collector are belong to me!"
A few weeks ago the Comcast rep told me that Vonage was preventing my router from loading a configuration file from the modem. He also told me that Comcast put a secret configuration file on my computer that I could not see. He eventually convinced me that my router (with Vonage built-in) is flakey, but I didn't appreciate listening to twenty minutes worth of stories about hidden magic configuration files obscured by pixie dust.
Frankly, Comcast should (in theory) be able to provide better phone service then Vonage because they can garuntee better QOS. Is it worth it? Not for me, because I can just pull my cell phone out of my pocket if there's a problem.
No, I will not work for your startup
No encryption? That's awful! This is the 21st century! With all the STDs- oh, wait..
Nvm.
Man in the middle attacks are very possible.
*shudder*
Defining Statistics and Social Research
it's really annoying!
Working for a cable based ISP, (I can't say who but it's not comcast) I can tell you that the cablemodems that we use for our VoIP service does not use the "internet connection" to connect to the VoIP servers at the headend. The Cablemodem actually has three network interfaces, the RF interface (the coax screw on connector), the "Managment interface" which is a private address on the RF connection and the "User" interface (Ethernet and USB ports.
The Managment interface, when locked, is provisioned at a way higher speed than the customer is subscribed at, usually about 25-30Mbps. This interface provides the two-way communication for the VoIP service, headend communication, HITS, and firmware updating as necessary. The RF interface is bridged to the User Interface once the cablemodem has been hit and the modem authorized, at which time the customer's device (PC/MAC, router, etc) gets an IP address at the subscribed bandwidth. The VoIP traffic uses the managment interface's IP to link upstream to the VoIP server at the headend and never cuts into the customer's subscribed bandwidth therefore giving the VoIP traffic a "free and clear" connection all the way to the headend. The VoIP traffic never leaves the provider's network and hits the public internet.
Vonage on the other hand does not have the luxury of being on their network, but rather that of whatever broadband you are connected to so the vonage box (or other VoIP connection here) has to go through the internet connection at whatever speed they are provisioned at and then is subject to the latency and connectivity issues that the Internet is known for all to get to the switching office.
Now if Vonage started selling DSL or Cable Internet access and their voice service, I have no doubt in my mind that Vonage would easily become a heavy hitter in the Voice over IP market just like the cable ops are now. They would have the same bonuses that the cable ops have now, un-messed with connections to their switching gear provided that their customer equipment communicated over the CPE to their own headend or DSLAM.
It's not the technology that is flawed, it's how they're getting there that is subject to debate.
I'm not trying to bash Vonage or exalt the cable companies but trying to give an unbiased opinion on what is really going on when you pick up the phone on a vonage box versus that of your local cable company.
Partnership for an idiot free America!
Vonage isn't innocent - it's a HUGE spammer...
j z46862.html [...]
Spam detection software, running on the system "mail", has
identified this incoming email as possible spam. The original message
has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or label
similar future email. If you have any questions, see
the administrator of that system for details.
Content preview:
This is an Advertisement - Important information regarding this ad can
be found below
Save 50% on your phone bill with Vonage*
http://eluxebrands1045.com/t/c/3767/open_general/
Content analysis details: (11.1 points, 4.5 required)
pts rule name description
-0.0 SPF_HELO_PASS SPF: HELO matches SPF record
-0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record
0.1 HTML_TEXT_AFTER_BODY BODY: HTML contains text after BODY close tag
0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message
4.0 BAYES_99 BODY: Bayesian spam probability is 99 to 100%
[score: 1.0000]
4.0 DCC_CHECK Listed in DCC (http://rhyolite.com/anti-spam/dcc/)
3.0 URIBL_OB_SURBL Contains an URL listed in the OB SURBL blocklist
[URIs: phonebillsolution.com]
The original message was not completely plain text, and may be unsafe to
open with some email clients; in particular, it may contain a virus,
or confirm that your address can receive spam. If you wish to view
it, it may be safer to save it to a file and open it with an editor.
We use Rogers for cable service here, and they have a competing phone product (Rogers home phone). When my mother was talking to Rogers about switching to Vonage, the Rogers rep. said you "can't dial 911" with Vonage. Certainly 911 service works a bit differently, but to say you can't dial 911 is a lie. Here's the vonage page about it: 911 Dialing.
"I have never let my schooling interfere with my education." - Mark Twain
If there is a DSLAM that is not at a central office it is powered off the supply in the multiple pair cable. Fiberoptic cables commonly have conductors for power as well. And the phone company is really the best at keeping power up to their equipment. Ever see the generator room at an MCI switch center. You can eat off the floor. That DSL line's DSLAM is battery backed at the telco just like the rest of the POTS equipment. They don't know if that power is for some DSLAM in a remote box or for my bonded T1s MUX-DEMUX to their T3. We lose primary power without loss of either DSL or T1 service. We lose cable much more frequently (and only use it for digital service). I don't really blame the companies tehmselves, they hire contractors for a lot of work who just don't follow through (like when they did a telco cutover and snipped a trunk with three of our "red flagged" T1 circuits, or doing a routine maintenance swapped two optical cables for our backbone provider). My big current grip is our Comcast Internet service drops the connection over 50% of the time when Vonage connects the call and it starts to ring. One ring on any of our Vonage lines and all Internet traffic is stopped or the jitter goes way up. Pings run while the call is in progress show 10-14msec times until the call connects then it has 30-50 _second_ latency and drops up to a few hundred packets. Then it returns to normal after 20-30 seconds. Pretty coincidental timing. And when they came to do a service call on the weekend they called, got disconnected by the Vonage "bug" they seem to cause and then left without waiting for me to get to the door. SO... Not so happy with Comcast right now. And they seem out to destroy Vonage any way they can, in my opinion and from direct experience. And hey. Just add your own APC to your Vonage box and the equipment between it and your cable modem or DSL termination and all's cool.
The biggest advantage of buying Vonage is not QoS...It is the cost of Vonage's service. I can spend $25 for the same service that costs $40 with POTS, or Comcast's VoIP. The quality is as good as my cellular (just okay), and I still pay less. If I discover that I use my cell more than my VoIP, I have the option to downgrade to the $15 for 500 outbound minutes plan and save even more. And don't forget the added advantage of not giving any of your money to those bastards who run POTS companies. ~ac
I went to Charter's web page today and in their telephone FAQ titled 'Information: About Voice Over Internet Protocol (VoIP)', "Using Voice Over IP technology allows us to deliver the same great service as traditional phone companies, but at a fraction of the cost."
I wonder how if they were told to say that or if that guy just didn't know what he was talking about. I'd provide a link, but http://support2.charter.com/support/telephone/cont entredirect.asp just doesn't work.
Really, are you surprised that Comcrap are lying to you? When Verizon deploys FIOS to my subdivision, I'll be the first to ditch those motherfuckers and go with Verizon. For all the evil things said about Verizon over the years, I'd choose them over Comcrap any day of the week and twice on Sundays. At least Verizon is nice enough to use some K.Y. -- Comcrap just rams you up the arse with a rusty bludgeon and gives you tetanus, then charges you for the privilege.
'He who has to break a thing to find out what it is, has left the path of wisdom.' -- Gandalf to Saruman
"Talking about something about which you have little knowledge as if you do know all about it is just as irresponsible as lying."
Only if you know you have little knowledge on the subject matter. If they honestly believe they know everything about VOIP, then while it is fairly dumb of them, it certainly isn't intentional misleading, and nothing near outright lying.
Mathematics is made of 50 percent formulas, 50 percent proofs, and 50 percent imagination.
A couple of weeks ago the local hospital lost all inbound phone service for over two hours. They had Comcast. According to rumor, the tech heard that they still had outbound service and figured that that made it less of a priority.
- SBC, now AT&T, continues to claim they cannot serve me - even though the previous homeowner had it. They also didn't supply new wire when I moved it. !$%&* When my phone line got cut by the bright wiring jockeys at Comcast, it took SBC 8 days to fix it.
:-)
- In the Chicagoland area, Comcast offers the most HD channels (and in my limited review of the competition, the best quality). However, they absolutely rape you on price - $42 for Broadband, $70+ for Digital package with 2 sets of premium channels + they get you at the drive through (HD, PVR, extra boxes, etc.). But the Digital Voice has been pretty decent. True not the $20 Vonage is charging but it does have some key features - 1)One bill for all services, Web access VMAIL & Arris EMTA has battery back up and provides enough power to ring all the phones in the house. Why is this so imporant - if you use a security system. For Vonage, they actually have to run a line from the security brain box near the Vonage TA and tap in there. Brinks actually claims Vonage recommends a seperate line for a sec system. Also, the fact that the Vonage TA is really only designed to support a single attached phone is a problem to me - although I know people who have sucessfully cut the line at the NID and connected the TA in the house wiring, your average Joe or Sally won't do this.
I've had big problems with Comcast service and install jockeys but for me (did I mention they also disconnected my sec system when they installed Digital Voice - what's next cutting my power line), they are the only real triple play player and HD content provider. I'd love to give them the boot but every time I look at different providers, Comcast is the pick of the 3 legged, 1 eyed liter.