Slashdot Mirror
Illumninatus! Author Needs Our Help
Criceratops writes, "Almost every fringe-geek worth their salt has read 'The Illuminatus! Trilogy,' or at least the 'Principia Discordia,' and much of the enlightenment therein came from Robert Anton Wilson. On the eve of 'Xena' being officially named Eris, Douglas Rushkoff's blog reveals that the extremely ill Mr. Wilson can't make his rent. Another testimony to how our society refuses to reward those who enrich it... but not if we can help it!"
[i] Get a job as a stocker at WalMart and stop being an anarchist/conspiracy theorist (hey, that's what it says on the linked Wikipedia page) refusing to do actual work for money in our 'system'.[/i]
Kind of hard to do that when you're housebound and only have a few months to live, y'know.
And where on earth do you get the assumption that he ever refused to work for money?
free experimental electronic music netlabel at www.viablehybrid.com
I bought the Illuminatus! trilogy in college, and it gave me many hours of pleasure--not just from reading the book, but from games, references, in-jokes, cultural bits and bobs and whatnot.
I don't care what he spends his money on, or why he's in trouble, but this is just one of those little bits of culture, like Snow Crash, Neuromancer, Iain Banks' Culture series and any number of other miscellaneous books that contribute to letting me look at life in a more fun way.
I agree with the guy who said "if a bum asks for money, buy him a sandwich". Where this differs is that here's someone who's actually done something cool and worthwhile and inherently nifty.
Cole's Law: Thinly sliced cabbage
How about some of us who havent read his books consider buying a copy?
Why should I? Fair play, if I come across one of the guys books, and it looks like something I want to read, then I'll buy it. But the tone of your statement above makes it sound like we owe the guy a favour, and I don't see why that should be the case.
Oh no... it's the future.
Cos if you buy a copy of one of his books, he'll only get the measley 5% from the publisher
Get a job as a stocker at WalMart
Did you miss the bit where the article says he's extremely ill? I imagine that a shelf-stacking job isn't a viable option.
http://twitter.com/onion2k
Another testimony to how our society refuses to reward those who enrich it... but not if we can help it!"
You posted that on Slashdot, where every third post is a complaint about the tyranny of copyright and payment for the use of intellectual property?
How naive.
Three Squirrels
I haven't read any books by him, so maybe I'm really missing out on something. But instead of sending him money, I'd rather send him a letter advising him on how to live a better life throw a steady income job.
You seem supremely qualified to comment, sir. I told Emily Dickinson practically the same thing: "Shut up with that emo shit. It's not paying the bills, and they're looking for a girl to do needlepoint in the village." Sadly, she didn't listen to me, and she died poor, alone, and unappreciated.
FYI there is an update to this posted on BoingBoing yesterday. They were able to raise enough cash to pay for at least the next 2 months rent. Check it out: http://www.boingboing.net/2006/10/03/robert_anton_ wilson_.html.
"Get a job as a stocker at WalMart and stop being an anarchist/conspiracy theorist (hey, that's what it says on the linked Wikipedia page) refusing to do actual work for money in our 'system'."
Perhaps you missed the part where he is 74 years old and extremely ill?
I also would like to know more about the why and how he got into his situation, but your comment really seems to be far over the top. Not everybody who is poor is "refusing to do actual work".
I think the reason is already given: he's ill, and he's receiving hospice care or medical care. Even with insurance, medical bills add up REALLY QUICKLY. For that matter, I don't know how good writer's guild insurance really is (or even if such a thing exists), but I imagine is probably isn't stellar. People can blow through fortunes (like 7 digit fortunes) in a matter of months if there are expensive procedures to be done. I don't know what he makes from book sales or how much he had saved, but he'd have to be a fairly wealthy author in order to absorb modern medical costs without a problem.
Conversion Rate Optimisation French / English consultant
In other news, another 300 cancer patients died today because they couldn't afford the examinations that would have detected their disease earlier, at a preventable stage. Nor could they have afforded the treatment that could have beaten their cancer, even if they'd known about it.
If you're looking for sob stories about nice people falling on hard times, there are for more worthy cases than Robert Anton. Why don't you stop by the local Veterans hospital, or contact the Children's Wish Foundation, if you really have money you feel should be used to help others.
Like woodworking? Build your own picture frames.
Book? Drug addict? Stephen King?
O, Discordia!
If I buy his book, will that help him? Or has he sold the rights on or something?
And where on earth do you get the assumption that he ever refused to work for money?
He's a Republican, and all Republicans KNOW that the only reason that people are poor is because they CHOOSE to be poor. Being 74 and crippled by illness is just making excuses, and living in Brooklyn and eating that FANCY catfood instead of the bargain variety is simply wasteful extravagance.
I've heard that the ancient greek civilization has come on hard times too. Since they were the ones who actually created the Eris / Discordia mythology, shouldn't they get a spare dime too? I mean, it's nice to rework some old public domain ideas into a story and copyright it (see Disney), and it's nice to be generous to your fellow man, etc., but I don't get this call to action slashdot article stuff.
[
if you would have bothered to research just a little, you would've found out why
..
The general deal is that he's suffering from the more morbid symptoms of post-polio syndrome, can't really walk, has trouble swallowing, and is extremely frail. He has friends serving as fulltime nurses and aids, but doesn't have family capable of providing support. The IRS and medical bills have also worked against his solvency.
Try getting a job with those symptons
...to find out what way is the "best" way to buy published works that funnels the most money back into the content creator's pocket as opposed to the distributor.
Sometimes, it's fairly easy - I prefer to buy CDs at concerts, where a band I already know I like (hey, I did pay for a ticket after all) and possibly some new opening band(s) gets a substantially larger cut of the profit from the sale. Some music and books are also available at the creator's website, particularly if the group or author has a "vanity" label/publisher, and the price is usually comparable to the big-volume retailers.
I don't claim to be a total altruist in the matter, as I do and always will love truly great used book stores (John King's Books in Detroit, anyone?), but in the situation where the price is going to be fairly close (and it often is) from the cheapest method to the one which funnels the most money into the creator's pocket, I'll pay slightly more for the product.
The margin of return to the creator, though, is fairly difficult to pin down in most cases, and where the musicians/authors/etc. know, I appreciate it when they provide that information on their websites.
HUH, Whatever happened to christian charity ? I'm not intent on writing flamebate here but really, I for one am sick of people claiming religious morality and sitting on their hands. Oh yeah, I'm an atheist too, but I seem to think that a seventy year old in pain is worth a couple of bucks, and with our health care in canada, well, I know it's just that much harder in the US if you fall ill... Just my two cents. Peace out !
End of Line.
You obviously haven't read one of his books... judging from the tone of your post you never will. That's probably for your own good, as you wouldn't grasp them anyway (Yeah, I am soooo 133337 because i read his books). And you know sh*t about him... seems to entitle you at least for some cynicism. I hope you will have the same fate when you grow old. I had a lot of fun while reading his books and will help him out.
Earth is a beta site.
So that EVERYONE can have good enough, free healthcare, rather than choosing some single lucky soul.
Also, we do value authors - that's why copyrights run out after 25^^50^^75 years so that creators^^^^^large businesses can make money inperpetuity.
Is someone asleep up there in the editing room? What does a sci-fi author have to do with the Enlightenment window manager? He may have written some nifty (well, strange) books, but AFAIK, he's never coded a epplet in his life. (click the article's icon if you don't know what I'm talking about)
yeah and probably like 5 years later too. . .
disclaimer: I've been known to store numbers in my ass for which to dig out when quantities are required.
Am I the only one who was a little confused by seeing the Enlightenment logo up there?
At the risk of sounding like a troll, what is he doing in a private, fee-paying hospital? Is the National Health Service not good enough for bestselling authors?
Je fume. Tu fumes. Nous fûmes!
Who else thoughed at first this was an article
about an enlightenment wm release? heck they even used the icon of e1[67]
Sorry for going off topic here, but what do you mean? Isn't the whole reason for medical insurance that your insurance pays the bills for you?
Coming from a very different coutry to yours (where we care for our infirm, rather than deride them like the first poster) I find it hard to get to grips with some of the concepts.
In fact sometimes I think I'd prefer not to know. I've often wondered what happens when someone needs life-saving medical treatment but doesn't have medical insurance. I figure the answer is somewhere between 'the doctors treat them out of kindness' and 'they get turned in to soylent green and given to feed unemployed, homeless people' but I'm too scared to read in to it in case the answer is closer to the latter for comfort.
Now you tell me that even if you have health insurance, there's no guarantee that you won't be turned in to soylent green?!
Can anyone explain how your country works in this regard?
If you're looking to do the most good for the most people per dollar, money invested in, say, vaccine distribution or malaria prevention is always going to outweigh helping anybody living in the West. And that includes US Army veterans and sick kiddies (in fact, the treatment of Western children with life-threatening illnesses is arguably the single most overfunded branch of the medical profession). But it's only human to want to help out those who we feel a connection with in some way. And Mr. Wilson's work has made a connection with many Slashdotters. I'm not among them, I haven't read it. But if, for example, Linus Torvalds or Joss Wheedon turned up destitute on my doorstep, I'd help them out (even though in both cases them ending up destitute would indicate some very poor life decisions), to thank them for what they've given me.
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a rigged demo
--Andy Finkel (J. Klass?)
There are no fictional books that are 'required' reading, despite the plaints of those who have read them and think others that choose not to "wouldn't grasp them anyway". Pompous, and probably wrong.
I write, but I do not expect that to float me unto death. I work as a backup to what I enjoy.
He appears to have sold books. That puts him way the hell ahead of most writers.
i'm all for helping him out. but instead of doing it because he wrote some geek trilogy, why not because thats what people should do. i happen agree that had he been employeed previously with a steadier job, he might have the money saved to pay his rent, but most of the time i wish i had nothing to do with organized work too.
so, i say give your money to him, but do it for the right reasons. if you wouldn't have given it to anyone, than you're a hypocritical a$$hole
i support the right to offend.
So, I have a job and insurance
He was paralyzed by polio. Try keeping your job and your insurance when you can't even move. I know we have the medical leave act, but I think "I need medical leave for the rest of my life" doesn't count. Even if he had insurance on his own, they'd have almost certainly raised his premium until he was forced to drop it, and if not, he probably hit that 1-2 million dollar lifetime maximum pretty quick by the time he got to 74. Too bad his family isn't rich, the Republicans would be all over it, as long as they weren't the ones that'd have to pay to keep him alive.
It's interesting though. I got a letter from social security telling me that if I became completely disabled today, I'd receive a whopping $160 a month to live off of. The drugs that keep MS from eating my brain cost roughly $20000 a year, and are fortunately covered by my insurance. It certainly would have been a pleasant surprise to discover that the Republicans were actually serious about this "compassionate conservative" thing, but I think it's pretty clear now that they're just full of bullshit.
Key Word: Consider.....
No comment.
Res publica non dominetur
My first exposure to RAW was through the Principia Discordia and the Illuminatus! trilogy, but it was his other books that changed the way I think about a lot of things, Cosmic Trigger and Prometheus Rising especially. Quite honestly, I consider him a great influence, and I suspect there are a lot of others like me. That is why this call for help is meaningful here and elsewhere, and why I'm sending a donation.
Those of you who haven't read any of his work and also feel some sort of strange self-righteous lack of human kindness to the point of telling a terminally ill man to "get a job at Wal-Mart" might do well to never grow old, sick, or widowed.
I dont know why there are so many out there who could care less about helping others. I think that your careing about someone elses problems says something good about you. But I am in agreement with the others. Why the hell did you waste a perfectly good posting space? You could have put it in a sidenote on something that the others would actually care about. Or even had a web site link to more info if the reader cared about finding out more about it. I say next time think before you post and thanks for letting me know I do like those books as well.
"Another testimony to how our society refuses to reward those who enrich it."
Society votes with it's wallets, and deems itself insufficiently enriched.
Even if you have insurance, they can drop you at any time for what ever reason, they can refuse treatments, and they will just cut you off at a certain point. It's pretty much bullshit.
Suck a lemon?
A compassionate conservative sees a man and his family eating grass on the side of the road. The CC pulls over and asks "what are you doing?" the man replies, "we are too poor to eat, and cannot find work because of ethnic and religious discrimination". The CC tells him "thats terrible, hop in my car" so the man and his family joyfully get in the car hoping for a hand-up for a job offer of some kind.
..........
After driving a ways, the man asks the CC "So where are we going? Do you know where I can find work?" to which the CC laughs, and says "Oh no heh, I dont have a lawn mower, and the grass is much taller in my yard."
They never understand.
I was in the Army, mainly to turn my life around and get some direction and focus. College wasn't an option for me at the time. My brother hates standardized education and wanted to do something besides work at a McJob so he joined the Maries. My uncle joined the Navy during Vietnam so he could learn to fly planes. My grandfathers both fought in WWII against Nazi Germany. My Great Grandfathers found in WWI against the evil huns. Further down the line my family served in the American Civil War on the side of the North. Another offshoot of my family happened to have founded some of the concepts of modern calculus. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Gabriel_Stokes
Does that make my family a bunch of thugs?
This article has recently been linked from Slashdot. Please keep an eye on the page history for errors or vandalism.
It's hard to make generalizations because it really depends on the company and your plan. Under our system, the insurance company usually doesn't pay all of your bills - just most of them. They might only pay 80-90%. That's awesome compared to you paying 100%, but that can still eventually lead to a crushing debt.
The best part is when someone has a chronic illness from birth, such as hemophilia. When they're young they're covered by their parents insurance, but eventually they'll go out on their own and have to get their own. No insurance company will sell them a policy because the company can be almost certain the kid'll cost them more than the kid'll ever pay. The kid's just fucked unless they can score insurance from a spouse.
That man is one of my few heroes. Normally I'm of the opinion that I'm doing the world a favor/all the charity I can afford if I'm taking care of myself and not sponging off others. Call it low self-esteem, call it selfish-loutish or anti-social behaviour. I think I'll have to go and order what few books of his I don't have, maybe buy a few I already have and make them this years xmas presents.
. . .if you drum up money for someone else, you might have a better chance of succeeding if you ask people to donate to personal accounts of that person. . .
According to Bob's own website the account is his personal PayPal account.
KFG
Seriously, give the man a break.. This man brought me to the great religion of discordianism brought me to the fold, and reminded me of.. of... dammit, lost my train of coffee... But folks, he really is a great thinker, worth the few pennys, cents, tuppance, whatever, you can toss him. A lot fo his fans (read, me) can't afford to, seeing as we aren't even online as far as finances are concerned.... {they're tracking me, you know}
It's actually a rather complicated situation, and I'm not sure anyone in the US really understands completely how it works. Here is my attempt to explain it anyway.
Basically, medical insurance in theory is supposed to help protect you in the case that you have a bunch of medical bills. In practice what actually happens is that insurance companies either require deductables on the order of thousands of dollars per procedure (where every tiny thing is it's own procedure) or they simply don't cover very much.
Furthermore, unless you're extraordinarily healthy, once you get past a certain age it can be very difficult to get health insurance at all, because insurance companies are afraid you might actually use their services.
Finally on that note, even crappy insurance is extremely expensive- and unless you work for a company who helps pay for it, or are rich, you can't afford health care.
Now, for people who don't have health care, there is Medicaid and Medicare. These are basically government insurance. The problem is that over the last several years they have been gutted to the point where they are even more impotent than they used to be.
Whether you have Medicare or Medicaid or some insurance plan, the bills quickly add up and people are usually left in a situation where they can't afford any more medical treatment. From there the options depend basically on what exactly the person is dying of.
If you get shot/stabbed/dismemebered/etc. Then basically you can walk into any hospital in the US and they are required to give you "stabalizing treatment" - which basically amounts to stopping you from bleeding to death before they take your billing information. For people dying of long term terminal diseases (e.g. cancer, organ failure, etc.) then there are free hospitals. The idea is that when you go to one of these hospitals they take as much as they can get from you, and leave it at that. Of course these hospitals also generally have abysmal quality, so nobody who can afford to pay any medical bills goes to them, so they never get new equipment/have the budget to hire good doctors/etc. This makes a viscous sort of cycle. These also tend to be in rather bad areas in the bigger cities- they mainly serve to tread drug overdoses and gunshot wounds. If you live in a small town and need to get to a hosptial like this- too bad.
Your other choice aside from the free hospital is to go to a hospital that is equipped to give you some of the best medical care in the world, but it basically involves liquidating all of your assets and turning them over to the hospital, then getting as much on credit as you can, then when you have no more to give they cut you off of treatment and transfer you to the free hospital. These hospitals generally aren't equipped to keep up the level of treatment you've been getting, so at this point generally they dope you up on pain killers and let you die.
Famous Last Words: "hmm...wikipedia says it's edible"
I'll comment:
Some of the post here state that, there are people who are worse off and less well known and perhaps such support would be better directed toward them.
Other post questioned why he was receiving private care when he could go to a state hospital.
These are valid points, no argument from me...largely because I don't know much more about him other than he needs help.
However, I'm having difficulty seeing how it follows that it is "morally wrong" or "hypocritical" to provide assistance to someone when:
1) You know they need the help
2) They have, in some way, help you or otherwise enriched your life in the past
3) Maybe you just simply admire them.
If you are moved to help this guy, do so and don't let anyone here call you a "hypocrite". If you're really curious, perhaps use this to learn more about his particular afflicition. Who knows? Someday there may be a fund in his name for this very purpose.
Lance Armstrong's got the "Livestrong" foundation...I wonder what his would be called?
A goal is a dream with a deadline
So your choice of what car you purchased or what fast food joint you ate at last was compulsary forced on you personally, at gunpoint, by Mike Dukakis and his tank I suppose then?
" I told Emily Dickinson practically the same thing: "Shut up with that emo shit. It's not paying the bills, and they're looking for a girl to do needlepoint in the village.""
Clearly you have not read Emily Dickinson. Shudder.. cringe..
The war with islam is a war on the beast
The war on terror is a war for peace
In a perfect free-market society, the remedies one needs would cost less, because they wouldn't be patented, being thus manufactured by lots of companies. All goods, including houses and terrains, would cost less, because there would be far less taxes on them, and there would be no additional annual taxes either. Houses would cost way less to build, because the company who makes them would be able to contract extremely cheap labour to build them (persons who would love to receive these low wages, because this is more than the perfect nothing they now receive). Environmental laws, by not existing, would mean the technology used to build the houses, from materials to transportation, would cost less too. And there wouldn't be any laws making more difficult for new house-building companies to enter the market.
As a result, there would be a lot more houses available, driving their prices even further down. And as a secondary result, the monthly house-renting prices would be a lot lower too. All those people who can't currently afford renting a house would afford them, including the cheap-laborers mentioned above.
And this includes Mr. Wilson.
Conservatism: (n.) love of the existing evils. Liberalism: (n.) desire to substitute new evils for the existing ones.
That is horrific. Why doesn't anyone do anything about it? I can't believe that a majority of the population would rather let people suffer than have to pay a bit extra in tax for a public healthcare system; especially when the future is uncertain for everyone. Anyone could end up suffering, even the greedy.
Communist!
God bless the poor guy, and I do feel sorry for him... But I own a copy of this trilogy, and honestly, I tried to read it and couldn't. It was just crap (my opinion, obviously). So I was a little surprised to see so many people here who admired it. Is there anyone here who found it unreadable, like me?
Dark Reflection
Now you tell me that even if you have health insurance, there's no guarantee that you won't be turned in to soylent green?!
Can anyone explain how your country works in this regard?
As difficult as it is for those of us in less barbaric countries to imagine, you are indeed hung out to dry if your health insurance runs out, and it's only good up to a point. Usually the limit is up to a specific dollar value - or covers treating a given illness for a limited time span. The maximum amount a policy covers it varies depending on the premium you are willing to pay / can afford each month.
Where the system falls down is when someone has a serious long term illness, such as Cancer, and the treatment works, you can easily end up running out of insurance cover 2 or 3 years down the road. When that happens, you have to sell all your possessions (house, car, TV) to pay for the drugs (which are really expensive - often hundreds of USD worth a month). When the money ultimately runs out, and you are lying bed ridden, flat broke in low rent accommodation - having been forced to sell all of your valuable possessions just to stay alive - you simply stop getting the medication you've been getting and you are left to succumb to the illness (that is, to die).
If you have a partner, then they are left with nothing when you die - not even the house you used to live in (because you'll have used up all the money from the life insurance pay out that would already have been made when your condition was diagnosed on the medication you needed to keep you alive), making it a double tragedy for them. I don't know how someone is supposed to get their life back together after something like that.
"Emergency rooms" are required to treat all patients brought in (regardless of insurance or ability to pay), so when you are at the final stage of your illness at deaths door (days, or hours before the end) they will give you medication to control the pain, but that's the extent of the free treatment available (and you / your partner will still get a hefty bill for any services rendered, they just can't - by law - refuse to treat you even if they know for sure you can't pay it).
Scary stuff.
Such is the price people seem willing to pay in return for lower taxation and greater spending power at the checkout.
I can't believe that a majority of the population would rather let people suffer than have to pay a bit extra in tax for a public healthcare system
Basically, we don't really trust the government to not screw it up.
(Any government, not just the current bunch of fools)
"Where people recognize that it takes not only time and effort to create something new,* but that nothing is ever completely new and that we all stand on the shoulders of the giants who have come before us?"
Well first of all, it's not so much "giants" as it is many midgets. Second you trivalize the fact that that body of contributions was built from many, many people all getting rewarded (and in some cases, not) over time. And by rewarding him the process continues. Trying for "completely new" not only is unnecessary, but wasteful (Linux vs Hurd).
"You mean the very same slashdot where non-traditional methods of compensating creators are constantly under evalluation and up for debate?"
More like thrown out there (and constantly repeated) and expecting people to adopt their "new and improved" business model, while they sit back and take no risks.
*And a bigger body of posts that refuse to recognize that fact. That regularly complains about actors, sport figures, and managerial salaries. That complain that people don't spend money on their favorite subject instead of sports.
Yes, very naive.
Robert Anton Wilsons autobiography is titled Cosmic Trigger. There were several updates/sequals including Cosmic Trigger III: My Life After Death
What the subtitle refers to is the false stories that he was found dead in his home on February 22, 1994 that propagated on the internet and the insights he had from watching the situation unfold.
I really hope that again the current story is also unfounded. But I am afraid its not, so I will be sending a check.
For all those 'the hippy should gedda job' folks, they might be interested to know that RAW was a (little l) libertarian before it was cool. It fact he was probably one of the seed crystals that fostered the 'coolness' on the internet back in the day.
-- 3 events that reshaped the world in the 20th century: WW1, WW2, and WWW
It's RAW's paypal account, its even listed on his own website.
All is fair in love and war...
R.A.W was an editor at Playboy for several years - his name was on the masthead. Somewhere I have some of those issues. The letters he read must have been great inspiration.
Schrodinger's Cat and The Trick Top Hat were two of the funnest/funniest books I read in my late teens. The Illuminatus Trilogy didn't do much for me, but I do make jokes about the Dog Star from time to time.
Now, I'm going to go Burger.
Might be offtopic here, but when I first saw the icon used for the story, I thought to myself "Holy crap E17 released finally! Then I realized that it wasn't an E17 story, and that it also wasn't April first...
I feel I've been wronged in some fashion I can't properly explain.
But instead of sending him money, I'd rather send him a letter advising him on how to live a better life throw a steady income job.
You don't get invited to too many parties, do you...
In a degenerate case like this, theory breaks down. In an economy of two, say, travelers stranded on a desert island, money is unecessary. If they were Adam and Eve, and had children, that would be radicly deflationary unless they had a printing press too. Even then, they wouldn't have a need for money as we know it until they had managed to populate the island to some critical number.
I'm not disagreeing with your main point though. I'd much rather be a trailer park resident in the modern US than a king in medieval times.
For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
Thanks for the info; you've also made me feel infantely better about the NHS, from whom I got anti-epileptic brain surgery absolutely free when I was 15. According to my then conultant only 12 of these particular operations are carried out per year at that hospital (the world renound Great Ormond Street children's hospital). Had we had to pay for it, well I think my parents would still be paying back the debt now, a couple of years short of a decade later.
People continually moan about the state of the NHS, but it's safe to say I'd rather become ill here in the UK than over there in the USA.
If I have nothing to hide, you have no reason to search me
Yet, even more supremely qualified would be those who gave YOU that money.
rewriting history since 2109
I call upon Drummond and Cauty to come forth. The KLF once burnt a million quid made with the indirect help of this mythos.
I always find it funny when people try to discourage people from doing good deeds. If you want to start a fund for Robert Jordan I say do it. I won't write a short essay on how I think it's a waste of time and how there may be some hidden agenda to buy drugs with the money.
I understand discouraging people from replying to spam or supporting terrorism, but to discourage people from helping another person just seems like time wasted on everyones part.
Can I bum a sig?
And as a secondary effect, the lack of environmental protections and labor protections would result in a wasteland controlled by those with the cash, with the bonus that the only power available to those without money is labor. No thanks.
-mkb
Hello,
>So, I have a job and insurance, because I don't want to be like this guy.
Trust me, there's no risk you'll ever be like that guy.
Hail Eris!
Yeah, but Wheel of Time? I mean, that series sucked ;)
In any case, despite the lack of a slashdotting, he is asking for medical bill money: http://www.dragonmount.com/News/?p=270%20
http://www.coderoshi.com/
Actually all of that is nonsense. In your so-called "free" market, the costs would be exponentially high as we have seen with attempts at free-market systems where the wealth continually travels upwards to the most greedy who find ways to exploit excesses of labour (cheap or otherwise) and charge "whatever the market will bear" for the product... thus, for things that people actually need like homes and food, the maximum possible will be charged, and NOT a fair price. And before you try and claim that scores of oppressive taxes or something cause the prices to artificially go up, for markets like pharmesuticals there are more grants and government subsidies then there are taxes, and the prices are STILL way too high.
Now, if on the other hand you are advocating a survivalist-economy ala little house on the prarie, then you are correct about your assertations on price. However, enjoy living without electricity and without paved roads.
Well, the Majority (all?) Europian governments have managed it; even us here in the UK. Canada and Australia seem to manage aswell. I'm sure you over in the USA don't have standards of governance all that far behind the rest of the western world. If you're anything like us, you'll continually complain about your national health service, but I'd still rather become ill here, than over there in the USA.
If I have nothing to hide, you have no reason to search me
I'm familiar with those...my grandfather's dealing with post-polio, and I'm the only family member who comes around with regularity.
I know what he's going through.
tasks(723) drafts(105) languages(484) examples(29106)
Amen. I've broken a few bones, and had plastic surgery on my ears on the NHS. I guess I should stop being annoyed at how much the government taxes everything, since the NHS sounds so much better than anything Americans will have anytime soon.. :S The pricing does sound extortionate too though. Drug companies must be making a killing (no pun intended).
which is totally what she said
In practice what actually happens is that insurance companies either require deductables on the order of thousands of dollars per procedure (where every tiny thing is it's own procedure) or they simply don't cover very much.
Not true at all, well, not in all cases anyway. It's amazing the amount of FUD being thrown about here. Fact is, if your a "professional" then there is a good chance that you have pretty decent medical insurance. For instance, since I've been a developer (going on over 20 years) I've had pretty good insurance. Deductables are around $200/year and most things are covered 100% (minus a $10-$15 copay or office visit fee). When we had our kids we only ended up having to pay the deductable and copay (and the copay was a one time shot for each pregnancy, IOW each visit related to the pregnancy was treated as one 9 month long visit). I've known two people who've ended up getting heart bypass' and have had to pay fairly little out of pocket. Of course the paperwork will eat you alive and many mistakes are made, but if you stick with it, it is heads and shoulders above what many around here would lead you to believe. Now before you start flaming away, keep in mind that my point is that not ALL insurance sucks. I know the flip side as well, my parents are on Medicare, and it sucks. Out of pocket expenses are higher, but the biggest issue is the quality of care is less than good (i.e. it sucks bad). We also have a few friends who basically have no insurance, or pay for insurance out of their own pockets (independant contractors and in one case a self employed lawyer) and that certainly sucks. But the fact is decent insurance is out there, and like it or not, one has to factor this in when you're deciding what type of career to pursue. Go the artistic route if you want, more power to you, but you have to plan for any issues (such as insurance) that this will entail.
Yeah, so instead we let a bunch of corporations (which are creations of the government) screw it up.
The free market works well when buyers and sellers meet in the marketplace with equal power, full knowledge, and all costs accounted for in the transaction. These assumptions do not apply to basic medical care: there is a tremendous power and knowledge differential, and if my neighbor can't get treatment for his bird flu or TB (or even for some chronic condition that makes him more at risk to contract bird flu or TB) that puts me at risk.
Tom Swiss | the infamous tms | my blog
You cannot wash away blood with blood
No, he's asking for donations to medical research.
I cried real tears when Li Mu Bai died.
I did not get that the article was, or the comments were saying that the guy is owed something. How about just showing a little humanity and helping out a fellow human being? People now adays have become so cross and disbelieving that it is hard for them to accept the fact that someone might be down and out, and need help...HONESTLY. This person just happened to write books that influenced several generations, take that away, and you still have a human being who needs some help. What say we declare a national "show some damn humanity" day, hell, we have a "Talk like a Pirate" day. Just for the record, I DO NOT give spare change to bums on the sidewalk, nor do I usually fall for the people who are standing along side traffic with a sign that says "Disabled Vetran, Need Help, God Bless". People who genuinely need help, those are the people who I try to help, use your head, and you can usually tell who they are without a lot of strain.
"My immediate reaction is "WTF? What kind of moron doesn't make things 64-bit safe to begin with?" Linus
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
Yet, even more supremely qualified would be those who gave YOU that money.
It became his the moment he got it though - and only he is qualified to do with it as he see fit - not you, not I, not the do gooders of the government and society.
Despite the fact that I've never met the man, and probably never will, Bob has been a great friend to me. I've received enjoyment from his books, I've taken comfort from his ideas and I've spent many hours pondering his philosophy. Now my friend is in need, so I sent him some cash. Perhaps it wasn't much, but it is an amount I know I can afford and since I'm not the only one who counts him as a friend, it'll be multiplied many times over.
Could my donation have done more good if given to a charity? Perhaps so. But I've made donations to Greenpeace, Amnesty International, The St. Vincent DePaul Society, Second Harvest Food bank and others in the past, and I'll continue making such donations.
Ultimately, though, even if I had made no other charitable donations in my life, I'd probably still have donated to help Bob, just because I value what the man has given me and the world. It's worth it to brown bag it for a few days to be able to help Bob out in this small way. If anyone doesn't like that, tough. They have no say in how I dispense my charitable contributions. I wouldn't try to persuade them to donate to Bob against their wishes, so why should they try to persuade anyone not to donate? That so many have tried to do so strikes me as small minded and mean spirited on their part.
Of course, RAW was one of those anarcho-capitalists and 20 years ago probably would have mocked the idea of helping someone else like that. I love his work, but no longer buy the philosophy behind a lot of it.
I haven't read any books by him, so maybe I'm really missing out on something. But instead of sending him money, I'd rather send him a letter advising him on how to live a better life throw a steady income job.
Instead of sending him money why not buy one of his books. He should get royalities from that right?
P.S. I haven't read any of his books and doubt I will so I can't say if you're missing out on anything or not.
I'm not a nerd. Nerds are smart.
Several things that you supposedly read should have tipped you off.
...But you didn't actually read any of this (you even quoted the article wrong after being called out!!). You skimmed a few things, jumped to conclusions, then rushed to get first post by being about as much of an ass about it as possible - revealing how much you're just a sad, sad, excuse for a human being.
Summary: "the extremely ill Mr. Wilson can't make his rent"
Article: "whose *infirmity* and depleted finances"
Article: "Bob is a human being in a rather painful fleshsuit"
Article: "I refuse for the history books to say he died alone and destitute"
Wikipedia article (which you say you read) depending on when you read it:
Wikipedia: "This author who has changed the lives of many is dying of post polio syndrome"
Wikipedia: "Robert A. Wilson is currently under hospice care at home with friends and family."
RAW himself did not ask for money. A fan of his, however, did. Your high horse died about 2 posts ago, *get off of it*.
Also, you've never once taken a homeless guy into a restaurant. Liar.
Medical research... for his condition... in his name. You obviously have no idea how hospitals work.
http://www.coderoshi.com/
A viscous cycle? Indeed. :)
;)
To the sibling post: did you know NHS is the third-largest employer in the entire world? My dad said so, and he works there (IT job), so it *must* be true.
Buying books is fine, but by the time he gets the tiny royalty from that he'll be dead. And the tiny royalty from a book purchase doesnt't reflect the value received from reading a mind-altering work like Cosmic Trigger.
So send money now. Buy books later.
Tom Swiss | the infamous tms | my blog
You cannot wash away blood with blood
wwhat kind of bastards would threaten to evict a dying man? so what if he cant pay his rent, he'll be evicted by the grim reaper in a few of months.
(1.21 gigawatts) / (88 miles per hour) = 30 757 874 newtons
Why doesn't anyone do anything about it?
Because Nobody is not on the ballot.
What?
How is parent flamebait? This is the only funny post Slashdot has today. Someone send this guy some coupons, all will be well.
Anyone have a torrent?
The latest Slashdot meme.
"This makes a viscous sort of cycle."
Man, I'd hate to be stuck in one of those!
I can almost guarantee that he's never actually done that. I'd imagine the closest he's come is throwing a half-eaten Egg McMuffin out the window at a homeless person.
Wait until you become a parent (assuming you aren't already) - that's when you appreciate it even more. Watching my wife nearly, but not quite dying following a placental abruption, and been saved, despite half her blood bodies landing at my feet when they opened her, having the infant whisked off to ICU two weeks and having it, and my wife come out just fine. The NHS is a fine institution. Some of the patients take it for granted.
Because the US is a country containing a majority of self-centered, ignorant, and short-sighted fools, such as the first poster.
pathetic donation made...
Wait until you become a parent (assuming you aren't already)
Oh, I've had to use the NHS quite alot; as I mentioned I had anti-epileptic brain surgery on the NHS, my epilepsy has had me in and out of hospital more times than you can count (though now thankfully under control), they've been a godsend & long may it continue. I don't think we could have managed under the US system.
If I have nothing to hide, you have no reason to search me
Let us say I have the misfortune of catching a terrible and expensive disease, and it chews up all of my insurance and savings.
Now certainly I would want others to foot the bill for me. Be it through insurance, or medicare, or medicaid, or welfare, or whatever other form of transfer payment is available. I myself would want this very badly.
But... why should others want to do so or be required to do so? What if they have carefully laid up their own futures, and have no wish to receive any transfer payments at all? Why should my misfortune fall onto their shoulders?
And don't you dare say "but the insurance companies or the government can pay for it". Companies and governments are fictitious entities: only individuals exist, only individuals can earn or lose money.
Are you certain that society is a better place as a result of implementing medical transfer payments?
FATMOUSE + YOU = FATMOUSE
No, sir, you are the one who is the liar.
Nowhere on the Wikipedia page does it say "polio" I just did a search for it. I read most of it and did not see anything that said he was ill.
I apologized for saying these things many posts ago, yet you still, for some reason think it's important to call me a liar and a "sad, sad, excuse for a human being." I did not know he was ill. Only the summary explicitly says that and I will stand by it. Nowhere on the article did the author come out and say he was "ill." I apologized, I was wrong, human beings are wrong.
I'm not on a high horse. I've taken homeless people to restaraunts, I really have. Sure they were McDonalds, but I also hand out water to homeless people if I see them baking in downtown D.C.
It does not shock me that my post is modded as flamebait but the fact that yours isn't stuns me even more.
My work here is dung.
Plenty of people have bought his books over the years. Wilson is a well-known author and speaker:
If you don't know, or don't like, his work, fine. That's your problem. Go read some other story. But his work is well known among theTom Swiss | the infamous tms | my blog
You cannot wash away blood with blood
But instead of sending him money, I'd rather send him a letter advising him on how to live a better life throw a steady income job.
RTFA, Jerk. Maybe you can send him a letter advising him "not to die from Post-Polio Syndrome", or not to waste all of his money on needed medical treatment, or maybe you can tell him how it is his own fault for being silly enough to contract Polio (before there was a vaccination for it) in the first place.
Or maybe you could forget the Neocon ideology that holds that everyone in trouble is there because of their own failings. That's just an excuse NOT to care.
And just maybe you could spend a bit of time helping your fellow man rather than preaching at him.
This wasn't bad but I think some clarifications might help:
1) It is extremely important to distinguish between employer-provided insurance and privately-purchased insurance. The theoretical purpose of medical insurance is not, as you say, to protect you in case of a large number of bills. It is to pool risk and collect enough money from each insured to cover the cost and a bit of rake-off for the insurer. The purpose of medical insurance *companies* is to make as much money as possible. Therein lies the rub.
Employer-provided insurance tends to be pretty good. Most people work for large companies and these companies use their bulk purchasing power to get something very close to this risk-pooling arrangement. People trying to buy insurance on their own, however, are completely at the mercy of insurance companies. They will face possibly ruinous exclusions, especially the nebulous "pre-existing condition", and a great many hurdles. The insurance companies work hard (which is expensive) to find reasons not to pay the claims of these people.
2) The long-term problem is a bit similar. If you work for a long time for a large company, you are generally well covered until Medicare (*not* Medicaid) kicks in. Increased worker mobility (i.e. decreased job security) makes the insurance problem greater.
3) Medicare hasn't been gutted (though there was a debacle recently with the new PHARMA welfare act, err, new drug benefit) because it is for old people and old people vote. Medicaid has always been pretty crappy because it is for poor people.
4) The US already has a decent program in Medicare and a very good program in the Veteran's Administration Hospitals. However, expanding these programs to universal coverage is politically impossible at the moment.
Even the mediocre NHS is far better (even Canada's crappy system is better though France's system may be best of all) from a coverage per dollar standpoint. The administrative costs associated with the US system are extreme and provide no medical benefit to anyone.
I remain convinced that the US will eventually embrace single-payer under a less corrupt Republican administration (a Nixon-to-China moment if you will) when big business republicans realize they cannot afford it any longer and faux libertarian (that's a bit of snark since I don't believe there are any *real*, i.e. uniformly consistent, libertarians) entrepreneur types realize that the dangers of leaving a job and foregoing insurance can make entrepreneurship far too risky. (I'm not entrepreneurially inclined but if I were, I'd worry a lot less about losing my house since I could always go back to the rat race and rent than losing my insurance since I might get cancer while uninsured and simply die).
Q:How many libertarians does it take to stop a Panzer division? A:None. Obviously market forces will take care of it.
If so, he should embrace the disharmony and chaos that has been set upon him. Evidently he has had too much order in his life.
ok There were about 100 diffeent comments here i wanted to reply to, so i just decided to combine it into one comment of my own: /.'ers. I actually just opened this article to see if it mentioned more about his writing since he came so highly reccomended. I never perceived this article as asking me for money. It is letting those people who have read his works or who hold some respect for him know that he needs help. I am not one of those people so I do not see this article as asking me for anything.
I have not read his books, but I kow a lot of people who have. many of them are
There is no reason to get offended by something you CHOSE to read. There is no reason to announce that we dont know this guy (though I am currently basically doign that hehe).
It is a good service to let the people who would want to know that this man needs help. Those of us who have not been influenced by him can A) wonder why so many were and go read his books and maybe join their ranks, B)move on to other more flamable threads like HP eavesdropping, or C) sit here and bitch about something that really has absolutely no effect on us at all.
I think I will mix a little of A and B together myself.
New and improved Guilt. Now its alcohol soluble!
Mozart died penniless.
But that was because he was an idiot. Not because he was unsuccesful.
I'm sure you over in the USA don't have standards of governance all that far behind the rest of the western world.
God, you're funny.
Must be that dry European humor that I'm always hearing about. I almost couldn't tell that you were joking.
"Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
Check the history of the Wikipedia article. The section mentioning Wilson suffering from Polio was there, and then removed shortly thereafter. If either one of you had could stop assuming the worst about the other and do a bit more research, you'd see that it is perfectly plausible that both your stories are true.
Or you could just accuse each other of editing Wikipedia to suit your arguments, whatever.
Try out fish, the friendly interactive shell.
No one is forcing you to do anything. We are pressuring you. There's a difference. We are playing on your compassion for other humans. Sick, I know, trying to get you to care about others, what's wrong with us? Don't we understand what America, the free market, personal responsibility and Social Darwinism are all about? This man is sick. Society doesn't value him, he deserves to die.
Okay, enough sarcasm. Here's the deal. We live in a free country. You are free not to help this man. But we are free to call you an asshole to your face. You can't shut us up. You can feel motivated not to help when someone asks for money, and the rest of us will feel motivated to point at you and say, "Look at the poor crippled human, isn't it pathetic, it lacks empathy and compassion and it lives in a hell of its own making because it can not connect with other human beings on a deep and meaningful level. How sad. Glad I'm not like that."
I met Robert Anton Wilson at a conference I was helping give a presentation for in 2000, called Disinfocon. It was put on by disinfo.com, "The yahoo of the weird and unusual." He is a very nice person, very smart, and his books are not garbage. He gave a presentation on the book "Saharasia," by James DeMeo, a student of Wilhelm Reich, which explains the origins of human violence. Very interesting.
You seem to think that because he is poor now, his books must not of sold well. They were on the NY Times best seller list. They are very popular, and every real geek I've ever met has read them. Even if you have not read his books, if you have read any books in the last thirty years chances are you read someone who was deeply influenced by his writings.
I'm truly sad for you. You are obviously missing something which most of the rest of us find to be one of the most important parts of being human. If sharing compassion and empathy were as easy as sharing money, I would give you some of mine.
- None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
The best part? The fundies in power who won't let such terminally-ill people commit suicide or be willingly euthanized because it's against their religion, and they're not willing to step up and pay for it. If I'm ever in that situation, I'll do my damndest to check out before my family is destitute from paying for my meds. Prolonging my life for a short time isn't worth that much.
See the ruckus over Oregon's death-with-dignity law. See der Fuehrer and congressweasels scrambling to take away Oregonians' right to die as they see fit.
Hail Eris, full of mischief...
E pluribus sanguinem
That's a great point. I'm not for government supporting everyone with tax dollars, but if this guy is important a fan should definitely feel good about contributing. The only time discouraging people from helping someone else is when the other person is just a scammer (like certain Nigerian princes). In this case the recipient of the funds is obviously not in a situation where he can help himself or just pocket money from donators.
Find coupons in Greeley
Most of the arguments here are whether or not this person is worthy of receiving such donations. Considering that disease & death will spare none of us, and that bad things do happen to good people, how many of us can say with utmost confidence that such a thing will *never* happen to them? I've never read any of his books, but then again, to say that he does / does not deserve anyone's help based on that is just plain callous. Helping, like many other things in life, is not about you. If you are able & willing to help, kudos to you; and if you are not, the least you can do is not to try & discourage those who are.
Pay him directly for his contribution. No intellectual property regime needed
olgaceline@gmail.com
My turnips listen for the soft cry of your love
Are you certain that society is a better place as a result of implementing medical transfer payments?
Of course it is.
The defination of a society is a group of people who band together for the common good.
What if they have carefully laid up their own futures, and have no wish to receive any transfer payments at all?
The only way to have enough money to never worry about medical bills is to be born rich, or win the lottery. Period. You're talking about less than 1% of the population.
If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
Notice that I quoted the two different things he would have seen (at the top of the article even) on Wikipedia between the time the Slashdot article was posted and the time that his comment was posted - depending on at what time he read it. I even mentioned that the two Wikipedia quotes depended on when he "read" that article.
And you tell me the conspiracy theory wasn't believable?
Heck, you didn't make it past the INTRODUCTION. You couldn't have even met all the major player characters that far in. You have NO IDEA how utterly flabbergasting it got.
For many years, I made a point of reading Illuminatus! at least once a year, just to keep my head on straight. Any time I started taking life too seriously, that trilogy was the fix.
Hand me that airplane glue and I'll tell you another story.
I guess Email to the Universe didn't sell very well.
If someone is passing you on the right, you are an asshole for driving in the wrong lane.
Ah, you didn't read far enough... After ~250 pages you'll suddenly get it.
Decent Insurance is out there, I used to have it. However after my last job search it was stay in a job that pays less and has really good insurance like you describe or take this job I'm in now. Get a substantial raise, work in the field I want to be in, and have crap insurance with deductables on everything. Basically $25 per office visit. $500 annual deductable before insurance kicks in, except in the case of in network doctor visits. 10%/90% split for all hospital visits and stays including Emergency room care after satisfying the $500 annual deductable and the $250 hospital, well it amounts to a co-pay. Now 10% doesn't sound like much, until you look at the bills to have your gall bladder out.
Actually, Yes I did; IIRC it comes just behind the Indian railways and the Chinese army.
If I have nothing to hide, you have no reason to search me
Did you know that Cuba has a lower infant mortality rate than the United States?
I didn't think so.
Hand me that airplane glue and I'll tell you another story.
Yeah, because all the government does is for profit, there's no other reason for it to exist than to line the pockets of politicians. I'm not saying they aren't greedy, but your argument is a little one sided and pointless o_0 maybe you need to wake up? It's nice slagging off politicians, because they mostly seem to be a bunch of narcissistic twats but *shrug*
which is totally what she said
The defination of a society is a group of people who band together for the common good.
Exactly. The problem is when a group of people decide to form a "society" and then want
to involuntarily include people who might not want to be part of it.
The only way to have enough money to never worry about medical bills is to be born rich, or win the lottery. Period. You're talking about less than 1% of the population.
Or you could work hard, live a fiscally responsible lifestyle, live below your means - instead of living on credit card debt
like so many people - and save money for a rainy day. And if something really crazy happens and you find that
you aren't prepared for it, despite living responsibly, you can ask for charity from your friends, family, community, etc.
// TODO: Insert Cool Sig
The well off person who has millions in the bank to cover all medical eventalities has likely been fortunate enough to have been born with a skill that has enabled them to obtain that money.
Funny. Statistically speaking, the well off person was born into a family that is well off. The secret to wealth is to be born to rich parents, then, since you have money, the money condensation principal kicks in. You can just loan money to those who were born poorer and collect interest.
I've been in tears since this thread started and the thought that America can stand by at let its citizens die sends shivers down my spine.
While the stated goal of pretty much any government program, or lack thereof, is to make people's lives better, we all enter into that with a lot of preconceptions and principals. Americans are predisposed towards independence and each person taking care of themselves. This is reflected in our lack of socialism and in our stance on drugs and firearms. Much of Europe is more predisposed towards placing responsibility on a central authority as is reflected in their beliefs about those same topics. Neither is optimal for quality of life, but it is pretty obvious that overall, Western Europe is closer to the ideal.
If you want to hear some scary numbers take a look at the number of Americans that are financially ruined by medical expenses. I think the last time I heard it was something like 50% of all personal bankruptcies were due to a medical problem.
You don't even know who RAW is, aren't you?
Okay, here goes: RAW writes books that do, indeed, sell. I own four of them. The Illumninatus! trilogy is the second book on the bibliography of the Hacker's Jargon file. His Schrödinger's Cat trilogy has been called the first quantum sci-fi novel.
His books referenced Buckminister Fuller, Timothy Leary, James Joyce, Aleister Crowley, and Alfred Korzybski, either as geiuses or complete lunatics depending on different character's moods. He's one of the most psychologically aware sci-fi writers, often describing people's 'programming' and 'reality tunnels'.
Frankly, if you don't know who RAW is, I have to question what the hell you're doing posting on slashdot.
So, considering he was a successful writer, or at least as successful as they come, and they won't sell you private insurance if you have post-polio, what exactly should he have done to pay his medical bills?
If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
Except during the last 2 weeks of the year. (Canada closed down hospitals because they ran out of money a couple of years ago for 2 weeks. Even seriously ill people had to leave.)
The cesspool just got a check and balance.
Yeah! Luckily, only well-known writer need help in paying their medical bills. There can't possibly be anyone out there in the same situtation who can't appeal to slashdot because he spent his live paving roads that hundreds of thousands of people use every day.
If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
Meanwhile the Polio-Reference had been deleted because it was "unencyclopedic".A nton_Wilson&oldid=79370739
:-)
The Polio-Reference was online from 01:28, 4 October 2006 until 06:41, 4 October 2006.
See:
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Robert_
Your still a liar, the other one isn't, he's just not capable of citing Wikipedia correctly
k2r
Um...no he wasn't. Hagbard Celine was, arguably, an anarcho-capitalists, but there were other characters in the books, and plenty of them had different viewpoints. In fact, that was specifically commented on at the start of the very first book, by the left-wing character who started the story by being broken out of prison.
If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
But why would my neighbors, who haven't been threatened by anyone with guns, want to be required to pay for these people? What if they've got guns of their own, and are reasonably confident that no one's going to try to take away their possessions? Why should my misfortune fall upon their shoulders?
Are you certain that society is a better place because we have armies and police forces to keep us away from total chaos? Wouldn't it be rational to try chaos for a while first, to see for sure?
Don't blame me; I'm never given mod points.
To answers these questions seperately:
But... why should others want to do so or be required to do so?
Because someone else who is poor should still be given readily avalible treatment that will save or significantly extent their life, even if it means you someone else has to put with having slightly less money to spend on luxuries.
What if they have carefully laid up their own futures, and have no wish to receive any transfer payments at all?
Everyone (of sound mind) has the right to refuse treatment if they wish, no one is forced to be the receipient of treatment they have not paid for. This raises a valid point though - that of "but what about those who can, but simply don't bother to make provision for themselves" - and it's an issue other countries with state health services are keenly aware of.
That people often to not forsee the need to set money aside for medical treatment they may need in future is specifically why general taxation is usually used as a primary means of funding state healthcare systems. This something that has very strong public support in countries with state funded health systems, because people logically realize if everyone is not forced to, then a siginificant number of people would not [ because people don't think it will happen to them ] and so the system would break down, but if eveyone is obligated to join in, then everyone ultimately benifits (and it really does benifit virtually everyone - not just those with serious illnesses).
Are you certain that society is a better place as a result of implementing medical transfer payments?
I do not think "Medical transfer payments" are a good solution, but they are better than leaving people to go untreated, yes I am certain of that. Having a US healthcare system that is radically different is what's really needed.
I am absoutely certain that society is better off if sick people are given the medicine they need. Just because cannot afford treatment (because they are young, not very bright, not very well educated or a victim of unfortunate circumstances) does not mean they should be untreated when there are so many people with much more money than they need (which is where taxation comes in again).
Anyone else read the title and immediately think, "Illuminati?!?" Why do they need my help? Those bastards have been keeping me down for years..."
I hear that a "Vice President of the United States of America" position may be opening up soon. He sounds well qualified for that.
and because there is no tax, there is also no Police service, so anyone with a gun can kill you and take your house with no fear of any repercussions. And thanks to the lack of organised roads, education, electricity, gas, water, sewage systems etc, everyone gets to be Amish! Yay.
which is totally what she said
For such a brillant inventor, he died penniless in the gutter at 86.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikola_Tesla
could be changed to fnord...
Awesome furniture, accessories and cabinetry in Santa Rosa, CA: http://humanity-home.com/
Really, the scene where the hanged corpse starts ejaculating was where I gave up. I was expecting surreality, humor, and clever cultural mish-mashes, but I wasn't expecting so much freakish porn and drug culture. Actually, I could've handled the drugs, but the bizarre, "gratuitous" sex imagery got to me after a while, and I gather than it never really stops.
It's also hard to follow the prose; it's deliberately written in a very disjointed style. Its's not "A Clockwork Orange" hard, but it's not nearly as rewarding either. I was incredibly disappointed. So much geek humor revolves around the series, and I kind of wanted to be in on the joke, but it just isn't worth it. I had a friend who loved the trilogy who I thought a good bit less of after I borrowed it from him and tried to read it.
If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
Why should I buy it. Information needs to be free, I will just get a scan of my friends copy the same as I do my music. After all like a musicsion he can make money by personal apperences.
Undetectable Steganography? Yep, there's an app fo
We live in this time of great wealth for some, but in turn, the creators and artists of our world live in squalor; we appreciate and love the work they create, but refuse to give payment, even when it is asked for in great need for help. I know there comments posted here are from the type of people that generally help those in need; I hope that an 'angel' that has been influenced by RAWs work in the past sees this story, investigates, and can give real help to a man that has touches so many lives and minds. I hope to be one someday, it is just too soon for me to be that way, but I plan on it.
Creators do not deserve untold riches for their works, but they do deserve some treatment so that they can survive into old age comfortably. Artists, by nature, are not the most capable of planners, as intelligent and creative as they are. The need to create often succeeds the desire to plan; some get lucky and live well, others not, as we can see here.
I have never met RAW, and unfortunately, may never get to. But I hope such a brilliant man finds the help that he needs to die in comfort and peace. He deserves that.
Listen to my music.
"People can blow through fortunes (like 7 digit fortunes) in a matter of months if there are expensive procedures to be done."
My parents are a case in point. My dad worked hard his whole life for the same company for over 40 years, and retired from them with a tidy amount of money in his 401k.
Then my mom got West Nile which has caused her many problems. She's now basically blind, very physically weak, and had a whole host of other health problems that wiped out his retirement accounts. Their health plan only went so far, and they're a couple years too young for Medicare. So, my dad will now most likely be working for the rest of his life just to keep health insurance on him and my mom. He's still got a pension, but that's pretty much it.
Fact is, if your a "professional" then there is a good chance that you have pretty decent medical insurance.
Even if you are God Himself, your insurance will stipulate a "lifetime limit" of 1 to 2 million dollars of payout before they leave you to die. Heart bypass surgery is a stocking stuffer compared to spending several decades of your life half-paralyzed. Better double-check your policy there. Plus, when you're talking about being insured "as a professional" that almost certainly means you're talking about group health plans, and they only count as long as you're employed.
I was diagnosed with MS this summer, and I have no idea what will happen to me at the end of the year when the company's insurance contract renews. Will the insurance company try to force my boss to fire me? Will they quadruple the rates in an attempt to get my co-workers to make my life a living hell to get me to quit? Or will they just refuse to insure the entire company, leaving us all in the drink trying to find an insurer that will take us just long enough to get my condition ruled a pre-existing condition so that they don't have to deal with it?
The theoretical purpose of medical insurance is not ... protect you in case of a large number of bills
Check out the Insurance article on Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insurance. The purpose of insurance is to provide protection against uncertain, accidental, infrequent, large losses. In the realm of health care, "a large number of medial bills" probably fits into that category.
Insurance companies may cover their expenses by pooling your risk with other customers, but that's just a question of their business practices, and is unrelated to the reason you buy health insurance -- to protect you against exceptional expenses relating to your health care. Routine medical treatment does not fall into that category.
The purpose of say, a Health Management Organization is to provide the sort of cost-sharing arrangement you describe. HMOs are design to cover both exceptional and routine medical treatment, but are specifically not insurance.
There are many people who want to pay into a cost-sharing system like and HMO and avoid paying directly for most of their health care. For people who use more than the average amount of health care this is a great plan (as long as they can dupe some below-average users into the same plan). But I can budget for my routine medical expenses, and insure myself against expenses outside of my bugdet, just like I do for my car and home. Adding this sort of nomenclature confusion to the mix does not help anyone.
And you've completely missed the point of even being alive. I'm glad you're happy fitting into your little cubby hole instead of exploring the vastness of the universe. The rest of us who've escaped would probably not benefit from interacting with your puny mind.
-"...bad old ideas look confusingly fresh when they are packaged as technology" - Jaron Lanier (Digital Maoism on Edge.o
I thought that the article read: The Illuminati Needs Our Help!
A Good Troll is better than a Bad Human.
Unlike The Silmarillion, I think The Illuminatus! Trilogy, was designed to expand the mind of the reader. I first read it when I was in grad school and living in the most "alternative" house off campus. One person had a copy and all the guys in the house were reading it, one after the other.
I think the need and ability to have one's mind expanded tends to decrease as we get older. I think this is related to the general rules of thumb that say physicists and mathematicians tend to do their best work before they are 25 years old.
I recently bought yet another copy of The Illuminatus! Trilogy. It sits by my bedside unread. I really don't know if I'm going to be able to read it again or not. But I'm sure going to send some money to RAW to help him in his time of need. His books broadened my mind and changed my life.
We don't see the world as it is, we see it as we are.
-- Anais Nin
In summary, The US healthcare system is very screwed... It's not really a free-market system nor a socialized system, but a behemoth that mixes the two together to give us the disadvantages of both, but the advantages of neither.
The law states that life-saving procedures must be performed without regard to the person's ability to pay, but that doesn't mean that the A/R department of the hospital can't try anyway, up to and including getting a judgment against you and garnisheeing income for the rest of your life.
With that said, there's a lot of charitable giving that helps out in this regard. I used to work for a non-profit hospital network that had a multimillion dollar fund to help pay for indigent healthcare. It never seems to be enough.
Lastly, he's lived in Brooklyn his whole life. Fine.
Actually, he's lived in Santa Cruz County, California for 15+ years. Dunno where you got the Brooklyn thing.
As for getting a job, he's practically an invalid at the moment.
Nothing interesting to say...MUST...NOT...REPLY...ohtheheckwithit.
I live in Brooklyn. It's not as cheap as it used to be. I think San Francisco is cheaper at this point.
Not everyone can be Stephen King. The Bestseller List is a zero-sum game...there are only so many slots and there are a buttload of writers out there. And the Bestseller List is not the place where the cream floats to the top...it is often the place where the familiar trumps the artistic.
Another thing people seem to be having trouble with is the concept of Post-Polio Syndrome. It's a real malady and it's a real mutha to have to deal with. RAW was born before the Polio vaccine. RAW had Polio as a kid, and he got hit with PPS several decades later. He didn't ask to get Polio as a kid, and he didn't ask to get PPS as an adult.
Usually, authors don't get health insurance through their publisher. Authors have to get insurance through providers that deal with individuals, and individuals get hammered in the free market. And if you had Polio as a kid, it is IMPOSSIBLE to get that individual health insurance. Those who live in countries where health care is treated as a public utility instead of a business subject to the laws of the marketplace rightfully look at the American system and go "huh?"
The writing game is a lot like other entertainment games in that only a limited number of people can live on it. The rest have to get crappy day jobs and struggle and eke out as much time as we can to do our art. RAW didn't ask for his predicament. It is probably likely that, as a genre writer, he hasn't made a hell of a lot of money from his work. The man is also fucking DYING, folks. I am fucking ashamed at my fellow Slashdotters today because a lot of you are getting all Republican on his ass. It is a goddamn shame that someone with such skill and has given people so many cool ideas and laughs has to beg at the end of his life. It's an indictment of the system and an indictment of YOU, dammit.
Knowledge is power. Knowledge shared is power multiplied.
I haven't read any books by him, so maybe I'm really missing out on something. But instead of sending him money, I'd rather send him a letter advising him on how to live a better life throw a steady income job.
Doubtlessly a whole bunch of people told you up front that he's in a wheelchair and suffering from extremely agonizing and immobilizing Post-Polio Syndrome, the aftermath of being exposed to the Poliomyelitis virus. I'm going to go one step further
and tell you that you are one dumb piece of shit.
You aren't familiar with his work, you know jack about his life and your head thrust deep into the reality tunnel of the
upper-prole / lower middle-class serf.
Sir.
I find your suggestion to "work hard, live a fiscally responsible lifestyle, live below your means" to be about as helpful as Marie Antoinette's suggestion that the poor should "eat cake if they have no bread". I suspect you have no idea of the magnitude of health care costs.
I work hard, and live within my means. I'm fortunate enough to make more than a goodly percentage of the population while not similarly scaling up my expenses. Assuming all goes well, and my reasonable investments provide a reasonable rate of return, by the time I hit retirement age I will be reasonably well off.
Were I to fall ill, the price of care is such that I could easily face bankruptcy. This is without factoring cost increases, which are currently growing at increasing rates. So, if I'm screwed, and I'm making more, and being more responsible than most of the US; where does it leave them? For that matter, where does it leave you?
Well, not to be an ass - but you could step through a pile of starving babies while eating a Big Mac and not have a moral obligation to do anything other than try not to get any of it on your shoes... Morality being subjective as it is. Personaly I don't feel that the author of the parent needs to defend himself anymore, he's stated what he believes - had decent (if not perfect) research to back that statement up and has caught nothing but flak for it. Now if this were an argument over the viability of installing time traveling equiptment into a Delorian - then I'd say everyone fight it out. But this is a morality play - give it a rest.
Arnold Schwarzenegger for governor, Terence Hill for president?
Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
if you raight some books, you deserve to be well off for the rest of your life?
Sheesh.
Now, I hope this man gets they money to live comfortably, and I am always glad to see humans act chartitable, but writing books does not, and should not, garantee income forever.
Yes, I have published stories, poems, and over a million line of code, so I do have an intellectual investment into what I am saying.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
It's not bullshit, but they are businesses with the morals of businesses. And they do drop people unless contractual obligations require that they not.
... well, not congenital, but definitely pre-existing any possible insurance.
That said, authors don't have much of a guild. I'd be surprised if they had a group insurance plan. Bob Wilson was crippled with polio as a child, and though he was able to overcome it for years, he also was subject to recurrence (of muscular weakness, not of polio). If he's now both old and sick, he probably can't walk. I'd be surprised if he was insurable for this problem, as it's
OTOH, a good health plan is contractually obligated to NOT drop you. Such exist. The good ones seem to do reasonably good jobs. (And hospitalization is STILL expensive.)
As for his savings...Bob's books may have sold well for a long period of time, but he was never at the top of the charts. He's never been wealthy, and often lived very near the edge. I'd be surprised if he had any savings. (I'm also fairly certain that the finances would have been managed by his wife, Arlen, who's been dead for years. Also a writer, "relatively successful" [i.e., she's been published in places that paid money, but I don't think enough to live on].)
Writers, painters, musicians...all of these can expect to end life as paupers...if they're lucky. There are exceptions, but that's what they should expect. If Bob was local I'd want to offer him a room and meals. I don't know if I'd be able to, but I'd want to. Unfortunately, he moved away decades ago, and I've lost track of him.
I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
Spiritual event or window manager? One of them has a familiar symbol...
But, hey, every story needs an icon, right?
"This Illuminati, Kaballa, Mason stuff has turned out
to be not fiction or satire but the scary truth."
now if I only had a decoder ring, I could get in!
relly, your paranoia is unbecoming.
The conspiracy that occasionally happen are always from a small group of people in power. So the all seeing all influancing group idea is false.
As evidence, I present the fact that these group tend to fall after a short time, and that there is always a leak.
See the recent Page scandal.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
It's gotta be said, you US people are being raped left, right, top, and bottom. My sincere sympathies.
"When I first heard Daydream Nation it quite frankly scared the living shit out of me." -- Matthew Stearns
> I'd rather send him a letter advising him on how to live a better life throw a steady income job.
You are a horrible person and a complete waste of oxygen. I really sincerely mean that.
Done with slashdot, done with nerds, getting a life.
"relly, your paranoia is unbecoming."
Who said i was paranoid or scared? Maybe you got a little
paranoid yourself.
All what i wrote down is my interpretation of what has recently
happened, and what can be found inside books. by numerous authors
who are dead serious on the matter. And yes the books of
RAW sadly enough, i think, were for the sole purpose to prevent
New Ager's to really find out was was going on.
If there's a nasty truth due to come out in the open, what does
the establishment tend to do? They create comic books about the matter,
extend it into the absurd by adding fiction, and launch some braindead
video games about it. Capice?
Robert
why should others want to do so or be required to do so
Very simple, because the less desperate people you have in a society, the better life is for everyone. The result of the US mentality of every-man-for-himself is that even the wealthy live like prisoners in their own communities with walls, fences and security guards.
"When I first heard Daydream Nation it quite frankly scared the living shit out of me." -- Matthew Stearns
I don't find it funny, I find it weird and sad. It's the opposite of altruism and it confuses me. I've dated two unbelievably smart (perfect SAT, one got her PhD at 23) women who were both libertarians and both felt actually *offended* and angry when someone did good deeds, especially if someone gave strangers gifts. Hell, didn't even have to be strangers: my grandmother willed something really expensive to me, my brother, my (then) girlfriend, and my brother's wife. My girlfriend loathed my sis-in-law and was furious that sis-in-law had gotten something for doing nothing, even though my girlfriend had also gotten something for doing nothing. It made her so mad she couldn't sleep, because she didn't think that my sis-in-law deserved it. I completely don't understand that -- how could you ever be upset at someone being nice to someone else? Both of my ex-gf's that thought this way kept saying "nobody ever gave ME anything" (which was, of course, completely false.) That's how they justified being angry when people gave stuff to someone else: if I didn't get free stuff, nobody else should, either. Neglecting the fact that they did, in fact, get lots of free stuff -- air, water, shelter, health, and most of all intelligence -- it shows a smallness of spirit, a meanness, to begrudge other people getting aid.
The woman I'm dating now, I'm dating mostly because she struck me as being a truly generous person when I first got to know her.
There's an interesting psych experiment about this. I can't remember the name. The general idea is: you walk up to two random strangers (don't know each other) and say "here's (a *lot* of money, like 1/4 annual salary) for the two of you. One of you gets to divide the money between you, and the other gets to say whether the deal goes through or not." What they found -- I'm remembering this from Science News from about five years ago -- is that in primitive societies whatever the first person chose, even if it's taking 80% and leaving 20% for the other person, the other person would accept, coz, hey, it's free money, right? But as the education and lifestyle of the people involved improved, the refusal number crept steadily towards 50-60%: people were turning down getting $5000 if that meant someone else got $15,000, because they felt it was unfair. That's like retributive anti-altruism, and apparently it's really widespread. Weird, huh?
Nostalgia's not what it used to be.
Or you could work hard, live a fiscally responsible lifestyle
You have no fucking idea what intensive medial care costs, liberterian fuckwit.
"When I first heard Daydream Nation it quite frankly scared the living shit out of me." -- Matthew Stearns
I find your ideas intriguing and would like to subscribe to your newsletter. Yours, Milton Friedman
Not flamebait at all, stupid mods! It is exactly what happened.
"When I first heard Daydream Nation it quite frankly scared the living shit out of me." -- Matthew Stearns
{before I get started, I'm not trying to give you a hard time, I'm just trying to grasp your churches position}
Let's apply what you stated to the parable of the "good samaritan" - I'm sure you know it at least as well as I so I won't re-iterate. The Pharisee's won't help him because their doctrine prevents them from touching anything dead (and, presumably, he was near death). The Samaritan, on the other hand, has no such restriction. Instinctively, he helps the injured man and takes care of him until he is healthy again.
Your church's doctrine sounds like what the Samaritan should have done is taken all of the energy, time, and resources used to help that one man and apply it to supporting local law enforcement so that others would not meet the fate he did.
Is that about right?
A goal is a dream with a deadline
Is it?
I can't believe that there is any sane human who could do what you describe and not have the feeling, at least upon reflection, that maybe he had behaved badly.
"Moral obligation," no... but I think we definitely share a set of instincts that form the foundation of what we call morality.
We may, based on our own rationalizations, decide not to help Mr. Wilson. However, I suspect that at least we would all agree on some level that there might be something not quite right about a dying man being kicked out onto the street.
Tell you what, you provide the proof, and I'll send money. I'll need proof of:
:-/ )
That this fellow is indeed who he says he is.
That he is truely unable to pay his rent. (i.e. open the books up)
List of donations and amounts already received, up to date
Details on how the money is definately going to Robert Anton Wilson and no one else.
Details on any and all "administrative fees" or anything else taken out before the money is put towards the rent.
That's a lot of good information to have, and would help assauge worries that this might be a scam. That said, if I (or family) were very ill, and short enough on money to pay rent, I don't think I would have the resources to hire an accountant or provide this level of detail.
It's prudent to wait for proof. However, in the absence of proof, I'm willing to risk a few dollars (I think I was suckered for 20?) in the interest of being generous.
Pros: If this is true, I've been merciful and generous, and helped someone.
Cons: If I've been suckered, the net loss to me is something I'm willing to lose. (I think I wasted more than that when I forgot to cook some meat last month.
I realize that this sort of analysis would also play directly into the hands of a scammer; I just don't care, in this case. I'd rather Do Something and risk being wrong... maybe it's just that I was in a generous feeling mood.
(On a completely unrelated note, how do we do the nifty quoted-text thing, now? =) I'd like better quoting display than just italics.)
"Check the history of the Wikipedia article. The section mentioning Wilson suffering from Polio was there, and then removed shortly thereafter"
THis is why Wikipedia is a useless point of reference for just about anything.
--> Fight tyranny and repression.... read
I could make the "survivial of the fittest" argument, but my heart wouldn't be in it - No, I don't feel that Mr. Wilson deserves to be in such a situation, nor really does anyone. I would like to see the money raised to at least put him in a comfortable way until his departure. All humans - regardless of their contributions to the culture - deserve the chance to die with a bit of dignity.
So, to summarize the point of insurance that most people miss/forget/ignore:
Having insurance should be more expensive than not having insurance, on average.
I'm willing to pay that difference for many things because insurance costs are more predictable than the costs of not having insurance.
Exam 4/C again. Maybe I'll do better this time.
Assuming you weren't joking, that statement is enough that I shan't read it. No worth my time.
This, and several other posts in similar vein, have made me feel very very vulnerable, and make me want to curl up in a corner and shiver in fear.
:)
Seriously. Scary Stuff. Thanks for posting the eye-opener, I hope you get MODDED UP as far as possible.
Exactly. The problem is when a group of people decide to form a "society" and then want to involuntarily include people who might not want to be part of it.
This is called a government. It simply is not possible to remove the benefits brought to you by the government if you want to opt out of some of them. In the case of socialized medicine, if everyone else is paying for it, but you don't want to, how exactly are we to remove the benefits from you. Sure the hospitals can refuse treatment if they know who you are, but how exactly do you pay back the other benefits, like greatly decreased rates of violent crime that the rest of us are ponying up for? And what guarantee do we have that if your funds are insufficient you won't act out of desperation and contribute to the violent crime, at our expense? Nope, if you don't like it, you've got to vote to change it or move.
Or you could work hard, live a fiscally responsible lifestyle, live below your means - instead of living on credit card debt like so many people - and save money for a rainy day.
Your views are simplistic and misguided. I make more money than most and have the good fortune to be in a job that provides me with some health insurance. If I were to become seriously ill, like 99% of the population I would not have the means to get the medical care I needed. Of the 1% who do, most of them got that money through inheritance. Why should they have the money to live extravagantly because of their birth while I die in the gutter? There is no reason in particular, it is just part of how life is not fair. So I might feel completely justified in going to one of those wealth people's homes, and robbing them. Maybe I kill them in self defense during the robbery. Or maybe I'm too sick, but my brother who is well and has years of military training does it on my behalf. Or maybe, he just robs you and a bunch of other people as well.
Socialized medicine benefits all of us through generally increasing standards of living, demotivating desperation and crime, and promoting equality that partially redresses the circumstantial wealth from inheritance. Anyone who looks at the numbers sees the benefits very clearly. It is one of about 3 major contributing factors for the US's violent crime being so much higher than western Europe.
I think the bigger issue is that people are willing to work themselves into the ground and wear out their bodies and souls to the point where things like cancer can develop and spread. They are willing to turn a blind eye to the environmental hazards that contribute to cancer. They're willing to adopt the mentality that, "It won't happen to me." and then further the mentality with, "And even if it does, they can cure me with this super duper modern medicine stuff."
The saying goes that an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. Your average American isn't worried about preventing anything. They're too busy with work and school and the spouse and the kids to actually relax and take care of themselves.
Hence his statement about your paranoia. Your last to paragraphs here only cement the idea that you are paranoid and out of touch with reality. Stan Lee is a government shill?
You don't take into account the vastly larger bargaining power an insurance company has. On your own your possibilities are limited, extremely so if you are alone and sick.
Switch back to Slashdot's D1 system.
There are many people who want to pay into a cost-sharing system like and HMO and avoid paying directly for most of their health care. For people who use more than the average amount of health care this is a great plan (as long as they can dupe some below-average users into the same plan). But I can budget for my routine medical expenses, and insure myself against expenses outside of my bugdet, just like I do for my car and home. Adding this sort of nomenclature confusion to the mix does not help anyone.
The problem is the basic egoist mindset of pretty much every person out there. Making these optional would not work as the healthy don't think they'll need it and the chronically sick will drain your funds quickly. The only real way to handle it is to force EVERYONE to pay their share. Guess it boils down to forcing people to help each other (socialist) or adopting a stance of "help yourself or die" (liberal). Obviously the people who need help prefer the former and the people who can help themselves (at least now, who knows if you get hit by a car tomorrow and spend the rest of your days in a wheelchair) prefer the latter.
Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
But that was because he was an idiot. Not because he was unsuccesful.
You're calling Mozart an idiot?
Priceless.
"Nobody knows the age of the human race, but everybody agrees that it is old enough to know better." - Unknown
Luck has very little to do with accomplishment.
There are lucky individuals, but life sucks in that way.
I'm not quite a millionaire (total assets worth ~750K) but I know more than a few. Most are first generation. They earned their money through dogged determination, a hard eye toward expenses, and consistently well thought out business practices.
On more than one occasion in athletic, intellectual, and artistic pursuits I have beaten down the more talented opposition with one word: persistence.
So take your sob story and shove it. We (My family) have been around the block a few times, more than once having everything taken away(via Cherokee v. US Govt imbroglios)and we have fought our way up. Don't denigrate me with your cynical pessimistic self-image.
As for the gentleman above. I think it's great that someone wants to help him out. By all means everyone that feels motivated to do so, should give as much as they feel compelled to give.
My uncle was partially debilitated as a part of treatment for mis-diagnosed schizophrenia. We (my extended family) all pitch in to help him and his children out as needed, and that is the essence of the American way as it began. Take responsibility for those immediately around you, because when you surrender that responsibility to the govt, you also relinquish that power.
You relinquish the power to build him a home that suits his personality quirks, because altering govt provided rentals is not an option.
You relinquish the power to find a doctor that suits his particular needs, because the govt appointed dr will just have to do.
I once won the lotto... I had a severe head injury that was operated on by a particularly talented neurosurgeon. He happened to have opened a practice in Tulsa, OK because he liked the town and the people. He did this despite admonitions, on the part of the major hospitals in the area, that he wouldn't have enough business in Tulsa to support himself and his team. Surely, under a govt program he would have been where he was more urgently needed, in denser population center... outside of my 45min survival window.
One quibble, isn't Americas stance on drugs the opposite of independence?
Our prohibition of them is in opposition to independence (same as most of Europe), but our treatment of addiction as a personal, legal responsibility, rather than a medical problem is indicative of our bias towards personal responsibility.
I was referring to the latter, but you make a valid point with regard to the former.
When there is demand, the offer appears.
Conservatism: (n.) love of the existing evils. Liberalism: (n.) desire to substitute new evils for the existing ones.
You're calling Mozart an idiot?
In certain respects. He was also a genius, I'm sure.
I bet even Einstein was capable of impressive stupidity outside the realm of Physics.
I'm just hoping that this is a general comment (to which I nod assent) rather than a specific comment about the Illuminatus! Trilogy.
Doesn't it make you feel good to know that our freedoms are protected by politicans, lawyers and journalists.
I don't understand if you're misunderstanding "average" or if you're referring to HMOs (which are not entirely insurance, but that's another topic), or what.
But I can't help but assume that you misunderstood something, since any insurance company (health, auto, life, doesn't matter) that doesn't take in more premium than it pays indemnity, goes bankrupt.
Exam 4/C again. Maybe I'll do better this time.
The compromise between the two is *insurance*. You pay for you own basic medial expenses. If something catastophic happens, like getting hit by a car, you can use your insurance to cover the exceptional medical expenses. Then I don't have to depend on everyone pulling their weight, nor do I have to provide for those who don't.
I could have donated this auction to him.
He's probably the reason I had the plate to begin with.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=
Hey, it's a free book and funny as hell. http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~tilt/principia/
_Principia Discordia_ was published under an anti-copyright. A few years ago, there weren't that many anti-copyrighted popular books out there. For more on his influence, check out the jargon file entry on _Principia Discordia_. Most of my High School friends read the Illuminatus Trilogy, and he also wrote for a number of magazines like Mondo2000 and other 'reality hacker' type stuff.
Robert Anton Wilson has always been entertaining, surreal and though provoking, although his philosophical ideas aren't exactly terribly sophisticated, they are fun. It's hilariously paranoid; and he introduced a lot of kooky ideas to the mainstream. I don't think the movie _National Treasure_ would exist without RAW's writings in Illuminatus. Too bad he got no cameo or piece of that.
His philosophy is solipsistic, and while I prefer to imagine a real external universe as it has more capacity to surprise and educate me, the flip side of his "you create the universe" attitude is personal empowerment and a real enthusiasm for spontaneity and disinhibition. This is the sort of thing Crowley meant when he said "Do What Thou Wilt shall be the whole of the law" except RAW had a sense of kindness and humor Crowley was sorely missing. With RAW, you could never be certain if he was serious or kidding, and he'd probably insist on both at all times.
He's a great kook, tremendously influential on our geek culutre, and now he is in difficult circumstances.
Assembly is the reverse of disassembly.
The problem is that insurance means a company that makes a profit and as such will avoid covering those in need as much as possible while pandering to the healthy. From what has been said in this discussion most insurances are unwilling to cover chronic illnesses. And that's what RAW is suffering from.
Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
Which is why you only want to insure against exceptional risks -- i.e. getting hit by a car -- and not against all risk -- i.e. routine medical exams.
Except that it costs millions if not billions to research and bring a drug to market, so nobody would do it because as soon as they spent all that, a dozen other companies start duplicating their work for a minute manufacturing cost eliminating any possibility of ever recouping the investment.
Now, if somehow drug research costs drop to near-zero, perhaps because there is no legal requirement for safety testing, every few years another thalidomide hits the market. When we're lucky, it's a drug that shows its terrible effects right away. For the drugs that take years for the effects to develop, society is potentially crippled decades later. Of course, since there's no laws about honesty in advertising, the companies making said drugs can just keep denying it. Every citizen is required to be an expert in pharmacology to interpret for themselves the volumes of contradictory data, some coming from real scientists (presuming they exist) and other false data being released by the drug companies to deny any blame. Not to mention all the competing companies releasing false research about competitor's drugs.
We may or may not be able to get this information reliably across the country though, because since there is no regulation of broadcasting, whoever can build the most powerful transmitter owns the airwaves.
All 5 people, huh? You might want to look at the number of posts on this thread again, you self-righteous fool. I hope you are a janitor at that hospital, because you have the bedside manners of a fucking Republican. Now do the world a favor and go kill yourself.
Three questions:
a) Name these examples, please.
b) Define "fair price".
c) If the prices asked are so incredible high, please explain me how the exploiter will avoid nine other companies opening in the same area to provide the same service looking for their share of the cake.
In regards to "c", please note that answering "they'll form a cartel" doesn' work. The first company will still have to bear the burden of seeing his profits drop tenfold, since there are a total of 10 businesses now sharing the same amount of customers. And there's also the problem of those other 300 companies opening due to that enormously giant revenue they see there...
Conservatism: (n.) love of the existing evils. Liberalism: (n.) desire to substitute new evils for the existing ones.
Wrong. You'd have way more power than that. Who would prevent you from purchasing a gun, for example?
The more widespread weapons are, the less violence there is. You don't act dumb when 20 people around you can shot you dead before you're able to say "Shit!". Businessmen that acted unfairly would have a lot to be afraid from, don't worry about that.
Conservatism: (n.) love of the existing evils. Liberalism: (n.) desire to substitute new evils for the existing ones.
Well, there's not much to buy anyway, or to sell, when all humans are dead.
Conservatism: (n.) love of the existing evils. Liberalism: (n.) desire to substitute new evils for the existing ones.
Of course they won't cover chronic illnesses after you discover them. It's not a risk once you know about it, it's just a liability.
Failing to have approriate insurance before you discover your chronic illness is unfortunate, but hardly the fault of the insurer.
If you wanted to do something about not allowing insurers to fail to renew policies because someone is making continuing claims then I might agree, though the circumstances in which this is currently legal are already limited.
It's also quite possible to get a policy that pays $X upon discovery of your chronic illness Y, so that the risk of being dropped from coverage no longer exists, as the payout is up-front. Such policies are not entirely common, but they can be obtained.
I think the vast majority of the world would pride themselves on being culturally illiterate in regards to sci-fi.
"Health insurance" is a misnomer. There are no nations in the world with "health insurance". There are nations with socialized medicine (Europe) and nations with a quasi-market based medical payment plans. I don't think that socialized medicine needs much explanation. The particulars vary, but socialized medicine boils down to that the government redistributes wealth it gets from taxation into government controlled health plans. The American system is much more strange and really is an artifact that unions created.
Basically, in the US you get health insurance from your employer. Further, it isn't health insurance, it is a medical payment plan. Insurance is something you take out incase something unexpected happens. Health insurance in the US is something you get not only for unexpected medical bills, but also expected medical bills (like drugs, regular doctor visits, ect.). Think of it as a quasi-socialist, quasi-market based program.
Now, if insurance had been left to its own market based devices as most things in the US are, the system would look very different from what it does today. You would still buy health insurance, but you would buy it for the same reason you buy car insurance. You don't buy car insurance knowing that you are going to wreck your car. You buy it in case you wreck your car. In the same way, you would buy insurance incase you need a major operation, not to pay for your drugs or regular doctor visits.
If the laws were different, the market would look very different. People in good health would likely pay dramatically less then what they do now. The drugs that they would need would be open to market competition and so would have lower prices. Healthy people would be much better off (pocket book wise at least). People who get catastrophically ill would also be perfectly fine in a market based system. They would have insurance that would kick in when they need a double bypass or a new organ. The people would be in trouble would be people with chronic conditions with expensive treatment. The US would almost certainly need some sort of socialized medical program to take care of such people.
Basically, the reason why healthcare in the US is neither market based nor socialized is because of Union laws. Laws were written in place to force employers to be the primary providers of health insurance. This gave unions another bargaining chip in negotiations and "solved" the healthcare issues at the time. Today it is pretty obvious the flaws in this system. The problem is that Americans are very resistant to socializing medicine simply because they don't trust socialism, and at the same time they have the idea that healthcare is something that you get for "free" through an employer very strongly ingrained in their head. Neither a market based solution nor a socialized social are politically viable in the US... hence you get the current mess where we stick with a bad system that is the worst of both worlds.
I'm referring to HMOs, I understand the difference, whatever, it's nitpicking, I think health insurance is fairly well understood to refer to HMOs, too. It doesn't matter, though. The point is not that people pay less premium than indemnity, it's that the total indemnity paid by the insurance is not equal to the total "indemnity" paid if all members were not insured. (Accordingly the average cost per person in the insurance is lower, too.) The insurance has to pay a lower total because it concentrates the bargaining power of all the insured individuals.
An example: Of 1000 people 100 need heart surgery, nobody is insured, everyone is at the mercy of the hospital and gets a rate of $10000 per surgery, average cost is $1000. Now everyone is insured, and the insurance company forces the hospital to lower the rate per surgery to $5000, average cost is now $500. Of course the insurance premium would be something like $750, so that the insurance co still makes a lot of money.
Obviously, whether the average cost and accordingly the premium really is lower than the single bargaining average cost depends on how good a deal an insurance can get (maybe I'm overestimating it) and how large a profit the company wants to make.
Switch back to Slashdot's D1 system.
I've read Illuminatus, and I've only read about 10 sci-fi books in my life. Someone I know just mentioned the book not too long ago at a breakfast party, so he must have had a pretty good impact on culture. I'd really recommend taking a look through it next time you're at the bookstore. It's definitely not for everybody, but taking that into consideration, it's a very remarkable book. It came out in the mid-70's I think, and has a cyberpunk feel.
Also, the band 'Love' from the mid-60's was one of the most popular at the time and an all-time critical favorite. They released Forever Changes ni 1967, which anybody who likes 60's psychedelia should own. They were Jim Morrison's favorite band. Anyway, Arthur Lee, the man behind the music and lead singer just passed away because he was too poor to afford adequate surgery. There was a benefit concert for him, but it was too late.
You describe a situation where there's a demand for pharmacological experts. So there will arise an offer of pharmacological experts. This leads to a demand for a system of identifying the better and dismissing the worst experts. Have you already seen magazines of product and service reviews? That's how this is solved: people would have a lot of interest in buying these magazines. And how to discriminate between good and bad magazines? Because the good ones wouldn't want to lose their reputation by allowing bad reviews to pass through, thus losing their readers.
There's already technology that allows multiple signals to share the same frequency. And even it there wasn't, this situation would promptly create a demand for such a solution. When there's demand...
Conservatism: (n.) love of the existing evils. Liberalism: (n.) desire to substitute new evils for the existing ones.
The next question would be "Why do we put up with this?" rather than go for a centralized, government run medical system. Back in my more libertarian days there were roughly three arguments that I was impressed by:
- If you artificially reduce prices, demand goes out of control, and you pay for it with long lines (queues).
- A capitalistic medical system leads to more varied medical research, and should help lead to breakthroughs that will ultimately save lives.
- You can't reduce medical profits by fiat without reducing incentives for people to do medical work, and you're likely to end up with creeping mediocrity in the medical professions.
If you actually look at what's going on in the world -- something libertarians seem to have trouble with -- you'll see problems with all of those points. There may be longer waiting periods for some proceedures in, say, Canada, than in the US, but the problem is not so bad that the folks who live there are complaining about it. Medical research is often paid for with government funding in any case -- and then the big drug companies are allowed to patent the discoveries made on the public dime. Good people are only loosely motivated by money, and while there are certainly some brilliant doctors in the US, if you're not sure you can get access to them, they won't do you a lot of good.Just recently I ended up leaving the country to get some major dental work done outside of the United States -- even with my dental coverage plan, it was cheaper to get the work done overseas in Bali than here (including plane fare), and it seemed eaisier to find high-quality dentists to do the work: clearly something is broken in the current quasi/psuedo capitalistic system we have in the United States.
Wikileaks, no DNS
No, they'd have a hired army. You're advocating a return to feudalism.
-mkb
Oh, you're sure he was also a genius? Well, thanks for confirming that for us, dude, your comments are so enlightening...
It's about how law and technology is being used unnecessarily. Indeed, I have a journal entry about exactly this.
Sharing affects profitability roughly neutrally; we should purchase items as getting an illegal copy is an abuse of trust, rather than because sharing harms the artist (same issue as the GPL). However, the measures being taken are in response to a phantom threat, and the honest amoungst us are having our fair use eliminated, and our freedom to tinker decimated because of this imaginary foe.
Wikileaks, no DNS
I'm sure for people who love in-joke upon in-joke and have spent enough time wading through plethora of conspiracy theories and old sci-fi and fantasy, they're probably a nice romp.
But for me they were just a waste of time, and poorly written even when I was "getting" some stuff.
So, yeah, my opinion was that they were crap, too, and I couldn't finish. I felt I had better things to spend my mind on.
Problem with chronic illnesses is they can cost a lot, even millions (of course over lifetime), to treat constantly. Others mentioned insurances having a lifetime limit of a few million $ in their contracts that a chronically ill person can easily hit. Up-front payments won't cover them forever, either. At the rate you need to throw money at some of them the payout would have to be bigger than the lottery jackpot to last until your death.
Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
this is a classic example of an artist of no small accomplishment not being taken care of by the industry he sold his work to. much like musicians that make platinum albums or win grammies and end up in debt to their labels. clearly the content industry model works and everyone is adequately protected.
sarcasm:
-noun
1. harsh or bitter derision or irony.
Commenting just to fix a wrong moderation. It's too easy to moderate with this new system :(
WRT the rest, I agree with you; I replied not so much to you, but to "the audience".
Wikileaks, no DNS
Woah Dude. What are you doing inside my head? Get out now. Weird things happen in there.
There's a limit to how many people can receive millions of dollars in medical treatments under any sort of cost-sharing or insurance plan, even if there is 100% participation and 100% cost-sharing. And so long as there aren't very many people who need such treatments, the cost of insurance with adequately high payouts should still be reasonable, as cost by frequency product would still be low.
Perhaps I misunderstand, but it seems that you're presuming that somehow a total-health cost-sharing system would provide a higher efficiency (in terms of premium costs vs. benefits received) than an insurance program. I don't see any reason to believe this would be true, and in fact, I can name a couple why it wouldn't -- higher administrative costs to process more claims and lower disincentive for frivolous healthcare services.
I think we should all go out and buy a DRM-enhanced set of Illumatus books by Robert Anton Wilson.
That way, the embedded RFID chips can be used to complete the grand master plan by the Eco-Terrorists (my idea) to illuminate the Tri-fold Druidic Path and transform our society into a better one in which writers and scientists are treated as gods and business owners and politicians are those we have sentenced for serious crimes against society to serve in such positions with subsistence wages.
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
I work in the NHS currently, in Primary Care. It is a fine institution with a lot of hard working people in it. And yes, I too would far rather be ill here than in the USA. But it is very much under assault at the moment. The current government is doing everything it can get away with to privatise British health care and in some instances, we see the involvement of the same big players in the US market. I could talk at length about the tricks that are being pulled to force us down the privatisation route, but suffice to say that it is a concerted and determined and underhanded policy coming right from the top. If you've benefited from the NHS in the past, then you should do what you can to try and hang on to it. A good start would be to write to your MP to complain about the billions that are being funneled to US companies under the guise of the new "Choose and Book" IT system, which is part of the larger "Connecting for Health" program - code name: Gravy Train. Google is your friend.
Aide-toi, le Ciel t'aidera - Jeanne D'Arc.
Do you still buy gasoline? The really wierd thing in the GWOT is if it wasn't for our overreliance on energy from the middle east, we'd probably be ignored as far as the Shi'ite-Sunni civil war is concerned.
SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
Or you could work hard, live a fiscally responsible lifestyle, live below your means - instead of living on credit card debt like so many people - and save money for a rainy day.
I was going to be polite, but as the other posts addressed your stupidity in polite terms as well I ever could, I have decided to be rude. There are three options here:
1) You're a fucking moron who has absolutely no idea how much medical costs are. In which case, here's hoping you need some obscure procedure to live that your insurance doesn't cover so you can stare at your $3000 after-taxes paycheck, your $5000 bank balance, your $20,000 retirement account, and do the math in your head for a $100,000 hospital bill.
2) You're a deluded idiot that thinks that people somehow have control over their medical expenses, who thinks they or a loved one could never get cancer or some other long-term disease that will not only wipe out their finances, but cause them to lost their insurrance when they can no longer keep their job. In which case, here's hoping you get cancer, and recover, and then have to live with half a million dollars worth of medical bills and no job.
3) You are the 1% of the rich I was talking about, and are additionally worthless scum. In which case, here's hoping you get hit by a truck. And get dragged under it a hundred feet.
If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
The most powerful government in the world hasn't ended poverty or crime or, in fact, what I was actually talking about, provided health care.
However, it's fairly obvious that, at least, it's simply not trying with reducing poverty and providing healthcare, because other countries seem to manage those just fine. (And, of course, lower poverty and you pretty mcuh automatically lower crime.)
But I'm not going to get in a discussion with you, as you're clearly an idiot who needs to get shot, taking to a hospital, and required to sign an indentured servitude agreement for the next decade before you get treated, which would be nice and legal in your universe.
If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
Can anyone explain how your country works in this regard?
Not really, but I'll try. Insurance companies, like any other business, survive only if they are profitable; that is, only if premiums taken in are greater than costs going out. To that end- the cheaper your insurance is the less it covers and the sooner you hit such nasty little contract surprises as "maximum lifetime payment".
SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
In 2001 it was 50%. It will get higher as the population becomes older and suffers from more chronic illnesses.
p tcy_study.html
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2005/bankru
Single payer is a step in the right direction.
Dunno if this has been posted, but Rev. Stang of the Church of the Subgenius has a writeup about this story: http://revstang.blogspot.com/
You haven't read his books and you think he lives in Brooklyn. All I read from your post is pure crap. In fact, it's like a contest amongst the people here to be as abrasive and cynical as possible. You failed. I love how you go off on misconceptions and false information. It's a pity this subject ever got on this site. I can only hope he can manage to laugh at it.
I only saw the original apology, which seemed fairly backhanded to me. Apparently the original poster has apologized more fully, and I apologize for not taking that into account.
As for losing respect, I wasn't aware anyone had any respect for me around here anyway, so that's sort of a pleasant surprise.
Emily Dickinson is far more enjoyable once you realize that you can sing any of her poems to the tune of the Yellow Rose of Texas.
This is a particularly effective way to irritate high-school English teachers.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
Actually the person two levels up who said no one in the US understands how it works still got some things wrong... For one, a medical deductible applies for an entire year, not on a per-procedure basis. For two, things are not as unaffordable in the US as people would like you to believe. The average person with average medical needs will still pay a significantly smaller percentage of their income for medical expenses than the average individual in the UK will pay in taxes to pay for NHS. Also, you generally have a pretty decent turn-around time on seeing doctors on non-life-threatening procedures (whereas I've known people to wait 30+ days for "blinding eye pain" in the UK or over a year to see someone for a spinal injury in the Canadian system); I've never had to wait longer than three days to see someone and even three days was an extreme case--normally I can get into an office the same day or the next morning when I'm ill.
In the case of childrens problems (like the earlier mentioned epilepsy surgery), there are dozens of hospitals all over the country that specialize in doing free work to treat children. Often these places are also some of the best (if not THE best) facilities to deal with whatever problem they're treating (Shriners for burns, St. Jude's for cancer, etc.) and they specifically look for cases where the family can't afford the treatment.
And then there's the fact that people who take very good care of themselves or are just born with good genes and never get sick aren't forced at gunpoint to pay for everyone else. (Well, they are to an extent, we all pay for the Medicare system, which wasn't gutted and has actually expanded significantly in the past eight years, unfortunately...)
Maxim: People cannot follow directions.
Increases in truth directly with the length of time spent explaining them
You're just a truly horrible person.
Let us hope your turn is next and that you die sick, miserable and alone.
I work in a home heating oil company, and we routinely get customers who file bankruptcies.
As a creditor you get all sorts of forms that list what the debtor owes, whom they owe it to, their income, their assests, etc. I can attest to the fact that for at least 1/2 the bankruptcies I see, their are medical bills involved. But the medical bills aren't the largest debt, it is usually to credit card companies. Also, it should be noted that if anyone is considering bankruptcy, then it might be worth their while to spend on a lot of things that can't be repossesed, such as utilities, dental work, etc. This could inflate the medical "costs" forgiven in bankruptcies.
Now, maybe the high credit card bills that I see are because the debtors had to use them to pay for medical procedures, but if the medical expenses were the sole cause of the bankruptcy, then you would assume that most of the debtors OTHER bills would have been paid.
Possibly a medical problem led the debtor to be out of work and lose income, but If that's the case, I don't know if you can say that "medical expenses" ruined them.
No, I don't expect lower premiums from it but I expect better coverage since they'd be required to cover everyone. There has to be some reason people don't end up paying as much if they are hospitalized in countries with complete cost sharing.
Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
How exactly is that a mystery? They're trying to give themselves something to do and a reason to get more money and power. It's not exactly a conspiracy so much as what happens when you have any large organisation. It gets bloated, and cutbacks do have to be made from time to time. I dont like to get involved in politics, but I don't believe every politician is sinister, and I believe that even because of the greed, people would cut down on the size of departments etc, and try to make things more efficient where they realise that is possible (which isn't every place possible).
Anyway, I'm not really impressed by any of those facts. It's obvious that once the government has power over something, it's not going to want to relinquish it, and that as the world becomes more complex, so a government would need to become more complex, which usually means getting larger.
As for the US government always being at war, yeah, that's pathetic.
In fact, your common sense answer is probably the one I mentioned. As time advances, systems tend to grow more complex as they adapt to their environment. But you seem to be using the growth of government as an example of human greed (which does exist too, and I see people trying to exercise power over others at the workplace here). It's kinda sad if you really think that growing legislation and government is always a bad thing, because sometimes the government actually help people (maybe not in America though).
which is totally what she said
Maybe we do pay more in taxes over here, but then cases like this author's wouldn't exist, ne? It's a lot better helping everyone out than just helping out celebrities who have fallen on hard times. America seems to be very scared of heading towards 'communist' type ideas, even when the ideals behind those ideas aren't actually bad. National healthcare is a good idea. Yes, there are rather long waiting times here, and that's not good. Maybe that will never improve, maybe it will. If people want to pay for their healthcare they can go to private organisations here too, but if they can't afford it, as this Author can't, then they can still get some help. When it comes to treatment the NHS may have long waiting lists, but when it comes to prescribed medication they're quite organised and effective.
Anyway, if you ever did get seriously ill, I'm sure you'd change your perspective on how your system is so much better because everyone has the right to be selfish.
which is totally what she said
I was the same sort of standardized-test whiz you mention, and I went through a libertarian phase in my teenage years, fueled by barely-sublimated elitism, when I could stomach Atlas Shrugs. But it was high-school angst, and I grew out of it! From what you've said, one of these women was at least twenty-three!
It's like economics, where you take an admittedly flawed model of a complex real-world system, then make predictions from that model. Where the model departs from reality, blame reality. It's a sort of Platonic-ideal thing. Maybe (just making a stab in the dark here) it's caused by being caught up in your head too much, by making a model of how the world does and should work, and never really testing it. Which would explain why shut-in dorks like myself do it.
And that sounds like a nifty psych experiment. Sometimes I wish I'd gone into research psychology, so that I could do that kind of experiment while quietly cackling to myself, "DANCE PUPPETS DANCE!!".
Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca
But we can still tell him he's being a twit. I don't think anyone's going to go into his house and steal his Hard-Earned Cash Money to give to RAW.
Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca
What are the other two factors in the US's violent crime? I'd guess the war on drugs is one, but I'd never seen a link shown between socialized medicine and lowered crime. (I'm not saying it doesn't exist; I'm just saying I can't imagine dying cancer patients jacking cars to pay the bills.)
Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca
Because he has private insurance?
Because even if these drugs were covered by taxpayer-funded insurance, I don't think he could afford the roughly hundred million bucks in postage to send thank-yous to the entire American workforce?
Because even if these drugs were covered by taxpayer-funded insurance, your share of that would be (back-of-the-envelope calculation here) roughly twenty cents a year, which, while mighty nice of you, doesn't quite warrant a thank-you note?
Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca
True.
IMO, people misunderstanding that principle is one of the two biggest reasons for rising health costs.
The other is that the patient isn't the customer. The insurer (or HMO) is. I agree that, as things are now, large insurance companies can negotiate volume pricing on procedures, which are better than non-affiliated prices. the problem is that, as in any other economic system, prices are very dependent on what the customer can pay. So, since the customer (the insurance company or HMO) has very DEEP pockets, the prices are constantly getting adjusted upward as fast as people can get used to them.
Think about it. How many non-insured people will ever pay a million dollars for a treatment. Very few, because they can't. And since there are lots of people with insurance that CAN pay high prices for things, there is very little incentive to find cheaper ways of doing things. Finding a cheaper way to do a million-dollar cure does not get enough new customers to make the lower price worthwhile.
Please note: This is kind of rough thinking, and I don't have any real data to back it up, so think about it, but don't be too quick to believe it.
Exam 4/C again. Maybe I'll do better this time.
I take it you'll be moving to the sunny libertarian paradise of Somalia, then, where freedom runs unfettered by the heavy chains of government? I hear you can buy weapons as easily as you can buy food over there, which must make it the safest nation on earth.
Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca
You describe an ideal world with ideal markets. Which would be really spiffy. However, ideal markets require certain things to function, like labor moving as easily as capital does, and perfect information on the part of the consumers. Consider your example of the FDA's review and safety process. You claim that it's unnecessary because consumers will inform themselves, and you handwave into existence a demand for an FDA... but a privatized one. Which demonstrably did not exist before 1906, and likely would not have, simply because private citizens didn't look into conditions in the meat packing industry.
As for your transmitter example... why? What motivation does the owner of a great big transmitter have to allow some pipsqueak startup to start a station? Consider the consolidation that deregulation of the airwaves has brought. (Clear Channel owns more and more stations.) By your lights, this should have resulted in an explosion of local news. But it hasn't. If a little deregulation leads to some consolidation, are you claiming that more deregulation won't lead to more consolidation?
What you're trying to get around is the fact that power accretes. Whether it accretes to a dictatorship, to a representative democracy or to a pack of bloodthirsty warlords doesn't change that fact. If you knock down a representative democracy, you won't get Galt's Gulch; something else will fill the vacuum, and chances are it won't be half as nice to you, all your kvetching and moaning about how oppressive your taxes are aside.
Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca
doom wrote:
> You know, sometimes it seems like folks like myself with hipster-intellectual
> pretensions ought to be demanding a kick-back from the real estate industry. If
> they want our help making neighborhoods fashionable enough for the yups to move
> into, we really deserve something for it.
Easy. When you move into some broken down neighborhood slum, buy some land. When the neighborhood becomes fashionable enough for the yups to move in, sell the land for massive profit. There's your kick-back.
While upper management was tried and convicted of war crimes, the man on the street who polished the gears of the great machine didn't get imprisoned. How could he? They'd have imprisoned millions of people who were just doing their jobs. Even though these jobs were part of a mass-murder machine.
German infantry troops and low-level officials were manifestly not held responsible for their part in what they did. War crimes tribunals were for the men at the top. (In a modern analogy, it'd be like trying Bush, Cheney, Rummy and the CEO of Halliburton. Colin Powell could play the part of Karl Dönitz.)
Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca
(Yes, I know it's "Milano" in Italian.)
Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca
Awesome. Bookmarked!
Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca
One of the reason's that San Francisco's Chinatown remains Chinatown is that a lot of the land is owned by neighborhood associations...
I think the second part here is more correct. Deductibles typically cover the entire year, not every procedure. If you have a $5,000 deductible and you amass $100,000 in medical bills, you will have to pay the $5,000, but you won't owe any more on that for the rest of the year.
Like you say, though, insurance companies typically don't pay all that much. They have set amounts that they have unilaterally decided each procedure is "worth." So your doctor might bill you $500 for a CT scan and the insurance company says, "No, sorry, we only pay $350 for a CT scan." My mom worked for many years in an office that did medical billing, and she explained to me that a doctor never, ever sees the full amount of any procedure billed to an insurance company. (This, incidentally, is why doctors and dentists of all stripes are desperate to get into cosmetic procedures -- insurance doesn't cover these, so the patient pays out of pocket, the full amount.)
For small procedures on an individual basis, doctors often "eat" the difference. You can see it on your medical bills when they show up: CT Scan, $500, Insurance contribution, $350, Balance remaining, $150, patient owes $0. But when your medical bills for multiple procedures start to add up -- especially if you spent any time in a hospital -- the institution kicks in and goes after you. In many cases they will have no qualms about sueing you for the balance, especially if the unpaid amount is adding up into the thousands or tens of thousands of dollars. As you point out, even hundreds of thousands of dollars isn't out of the question -- one nasty car accident might cost that much to the uninsured. It's a real shame, but the hospitals have a fair point -- what's a private medical group supposed to do when nobody's paying their bills?
Breakfast served all day!
Stan Lee is a government shill? How should i know that? He sure boosted Marvell Comics
to Corporate adulthood. Is such success just pure luck which can happen
to anybody? I used to believe that though, it was called the American Dream.
Today I don't believe that careers or success just happen out of the blue.
Why don't you listen to George Carlin :
http://crashrecovery.org/George_Carlin.mp3
Cheers,
Robert
There's nothing selfish about keeping the money I earn. Just as there's nothing charitable about paying for other people's health care when you're forced at gunpoint.
Yes this author can't take care of his own expenses. But look what's happening, CHARITY is picking up the slack. There are places to help those that honestly can't help themselves, the government doesn't have to force anyone to do it.
I'm confused by your offering the example of prescribed medications as being "organized". I fail to see what the American system, wherein I take my Prescription to a Pharmacist and get it filled, is lacking.
And I have been seriously ill in the past, as have several of my family members. And in no case did it ever make me feel I was entitled to your paycheck. Why does being ill mean you can take someone else's stuff? Let people donate what they want, don't take it from them by force.
Maxim: People cannot follow directions.
Increases in truth directly with the length of time spent explaining them
I know that nobody is being 'forced' in that system, but I still think it's more sensible than only those better off (who are more noticeable) benefitting. The government should look after all it's citizens, not just those with money. I'm saying the prescribed medications are organised, because they're readily available, and also only £5.60 no matter what type or amount of medication you're getting, for example your doctor could prescribe enough medication for 1 month or 6 months and it would still only cost £5.60, which was very handy when I was a student.
I know that being ill doesn't automatically entitle you to take money from others, but relying on donations isn't very efficient. Since I started thinking more about healthcare and government services from this Slashdot Plea (TM), I've improved my view on taxation somewhat (though fuel tax is still far too high, and I'm not sure if it's even going towards things like healthcare, or held in the transport sector..)
which is totally what she said
i waste my time writing a response to your peurile egoistic rubbish of an opinion. you must be a highly principled erudite man, being that you feel that you can best advise another man on a situation you have never encountered. why do you not apply your overwhelming wisdom to your own life situation and leave others to do what they must? what purpose does your comment serve other than to elucidate clearly to all who read it that you are an obstructive jealous fool who obviously feels life is unfair to him? so yes, you are missing out on something and that something is the general enlightening subject matter of wilson's books. possibly, if you were to actually read and comprehend them you might speak more cautiously. what arrogance is in your words. "point out" all you would like to pedantic narrow minded speck of a conscious fool, but i assure you the compassion you lack will dawn on you swiftly when it is your life that is in peril. furthermore, you speak of a man who was able to navigate his way through life without having to depend on such soul sucking parasitic corporations to be his big daddy pimp. so reserve your suggestions for the oppressed minorities who actually believe that a wage paying job at walmart is beneficial to humanity. your time of suffering will come, just as it comes for all and then you remember your words and apply them. it may not be as easy then. for theinterim, continue to enjoy your golden now that you've so wonderfully created through "steady income". you know nothing. you know not even yourself, foolish child. good day.
"Writers, painters, musicians...all of these can expect to end life as paupers...if they're lucky. There are exceptions, but that's what they should expect."
... Wallace Stevens, WC Williams, Herman Melville come to mind ... had to do what they did in their spare time. That works for the geniuses, but not for those who need more time to create... and most of what they create is done 'on speculation', with no guarantee of any reward for their efforts. Arts contributors recognize that, but there aren't very many of them.
Very, very sad, but true. Thanks for spelling it out.
It takes courage to devote a significant part of one's life and energies to the arts. Lots of well-known creative people
"You must try to forget all you have learned. You must begin to dream." -- Sherwood Anderson