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EU Rejects Spam Maker's Trademark Bid

kog777 writes "The producer of the canned pork product Spam has lost a bid to claim the word as a trademark for unsolicited e-mails. EU trademark officials rejected Hormel Foods Corp.'s appeal, dealing the company another setback in its struggle to prevent software companies from using the word 'spam' in their products, a practice it argued was diluting its brand name. The European Office of Trade Marks and Designs, noting that the vast majority of the hits yielded by a Google search for the word made no reference to the food, said that 'the most evident meaning of the term SPAM for the consumers ... will certainly be unsolicited, usually commercial e-mail, rather than a designation for canned spicy ham.'"

231 comments

  1. Well.... by diersing · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Are we really using Google to decide such matters? What else could Google decide for us?

    1. Re:Well.... by just_another_sean · · Score: 1

      Which meat product is more popular?

      --
      Creationist Textbook Stickers Declared Unconstitutional by CowboyNeal
    2. Re:Well.... by seanadams.com · · Score: 4, Insightful


      indeed, what an obviously self-selected sample set. Asking the _internet_ to tell you what spam is?

      I reealize this was a European court and Spam is not popular over there, but imagine what you'd get if you asked, say 100 people as they walked through the canned meats section of a supermarket.

      That's about as ridiculous as asking google to tell you what it means on the internet. It's all about context.

      I don't think anyone would confuse spam with just email if you invited them over for a nice spam casserole. They'd just tell you they'd rather eat cat feces, which smells the same but tastes slightly better.

    3. Re:Well.... by Skreems · · Score: 1

      That did strike me as a bit odd. It's sort of cherry picking your sample to do an internet search. Of course most web sites are going to use the junk email definition. A better question is, of the large number of people who don't have an internet connection, or even own a computer, how many would use the old definition and how many the new? Get away from the specialized audience and I bet your answer changes significantly.

      --
      Slashdot needs a "-1, Wrong" moderation option.
      The Urban Hippie
    4. Re:Well.... by jimicus · · Score: 5, Funny

      they'd rather eat cat feces, which smells the same but tastes slightly better.

      How do you know?

    5. Re:Well.... by Lonewolf666 · · Score: 2, Insightful
      indeed, what an obviously self-selected sample set. Asking the _internet_ to tell you what spam is?

      I reealize this was a European court and Spam is not popular over there, but imagine what you'd get if you asked, say 100 people as they walked through the canned meats section of a supermarket.

      In an European supermarket?
      Of course you would meet many people that way who are not familiar with internet spam, but the "Hormel spam" is not very well known over here. I guess the definition of spam as unsolicited bulk e-mail would still win out.

      This said, the fact that spam is already a generic term among computer users should be reason enough to reject the trademark application as a trademark for unsolicited e-mails. Granting Hormel a trademark for spam as canned meat would still be OK, but that is not what they asked for.
      --
      C - the footgun of programming languages
    6. Re:Well.... by patrixmyth · · Score: 1

      Christopher Walken for President 2008 is the first campaign website for a search on 2008 us president, so I think the selection by Google is a great idea. Instead of the State of Union address, he could do a dance, and we could FINALLY out crazy eyes North Korea's leader.

      --
      "Don't you know you're going to shock the monkey?"- Peter Gabriel
    7. Re:Well.... by nikoftime · · Score: 2, Informative

      Try this for a more accurate "spam" vs. "hot dogs" google fight:

      http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&wo rd1=Spam+-email+-filter&word2=Hot+Dogs

    8. Re:Well.... by thinsoldier · · Score: 5, Funny

      i've had lots of cats in my life
      I've seen them all eat poo on many occasions
      i've also seen dogs digging in my trash to snack on used kitty litter

      i tried feeding spam to 4 of my cats a few years ago, 3 didnt even bother to taste it
      1 ate it but threw up about an hour later

    9. Re:Well.... by theguyfromsaturn · · Score: 2, Interesting

      True, but I honestly had never heard of a canned meat named spam until a year and a half ago when I decide to find out where the name of SPAM (unsollicited e-mail) came from. Most of the people I know who never used the net, didn't know what SPAM was period.

      --
      I like my dinosaurs feathery, and my pterosaurs hairy (or is it pycnofibery?)
    10. Re:Well.... by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Well, maybe whether "to google" is a word...

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    11. Re:Well.... by ePhil_One · · Score: 1
      Of course you would meet many people that way who are not familiar with internet spam, but the "Hormel spam" is not very well known over here.

      Which is surprising, since the name came from a Monty Python sketch that was itself an homage to the English love of the canned meat product, developed during WWII and after when it was the only reliable and healty way to ship meat to the Europeans.

      Unfortunatly, almost all canned meat became known as "Spam" to GI's, even if it was awful war profiteering product that Hormel had nothing to do with.

      --
      You are in a maze of twisted little posts, all alike.
    12. Re:Well.... by camperdave · · Score: 1

      This said, the fact that spam is already a generic term among computer users should be reason enough to reject the trademark application as a trademark for unsolicited e-mails.

      Well, that didn't stop Microsoft from trademarking its windowing gui as "Windows", or its disk operating system as "DOS".

      --
      When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
    13. Re:Well.... by From+A+Far+Away+Land · · Score: 1

      In fairness, I've increased the sample to include results from Altavista which of course the judge should have done.
      http://www.altavista.com/web/results?itag=ody&q=sp am&kgs=1&kls=0

      2 of the top 3 results that weren't paid advertisments were for the meat. Seems the judge opened a can of worms, err spam.

      Yes I know my sample is silly, that's the point.

    14. Re:Well.... by diersing · · Score: 1
      I honestly had never heard of a canned meat named spam until a year and a half ago

      And that is the problem with the argument, people are so self-centric it doesn't occur to them that Hormel has been using "spam" (SPiced hAM) since the 1930's, which I think predates all unsolicited email (for the exception of p3n1$ en1@rg3m3n+ emails, which predates everything).

    15. Re:Well.... by Buran · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Doesn't really matter. This is an example of how language changes over time. A word with one meaning this decade can have an entirely different one in the next, and once the new meaning is as firmly entrenched as "spam = junk email" is, there's no going back. I don't know what the point is of all the moaning about this (on Hormel's part)... if they wanted to complain they should have done it a long, long time ago before the meaning change became entrenched.

      Hormel, you're too late. About a decade too late. Stop trying to herd cats and spend your money on something that's actually achievable -- you certainly are not going to get anywhere here. The increasing backlash of corporatization of everything certainly won't help you either.

    16. Re:Well.... by just_another_sean · · Score: 2, Funny

      And the winner is SPAM! By a landslide:

      spam -email -filter: 233,000,000 results
      hot dogs: 49,700,000 results

      I love googlefight :-)

      --
      Creationist Textbook Stickers Declared Unconstitutional by CowboyNeal
    17. Re:Well.... by kimvette · · Score: 1

      You have a lower user number than I, and you have never heard of Spam? WTF kind of slashdotter are you? Have you not watched Monty Python, per /. requirements? You have obviously failed to memorize the Spam skit.

      I believe I speak for all present here when I declare that it is time for you to turn in your geek card. Sorry, no more slashdot for you.

      Seriously though, given the frequent Monty Python references here indicating its vast popularity, I'm surprised there are folks here who haven't heard of Hormel Spam. It's a godawful canned ham product which is more salty than seawater. If you have never tried it, imagine the saltiest hot dog you have ever eaten, mixed with flavorless gelatin (for texture), lard, and a good heaping pile of salt. That is what Spam tastes like. It's okay to accentuate certain hors d'oeuvres, and might even be OK is some sushi varieties (I've never tried such maki rolls, I refuse to out of principle), but in anything more than tiny doses is the grossest, most disgusting "food" product one could possibly ingest.

      --
      The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
    18. Re:Well.... by MrTufty · · Score: 1

      Since that happened before the names truly became commonplace, I don't see your point. Windows wasn't a generic term until Microsoft trademarked it.

      DOS, you're a little inaccurate on since that's not the trademark Microsoft hold. Instead, they hold MS-DOS, which is more specific.

    19. Re:Well.... by kimvette · · Score: 1

      That should not matter; trademarks are only protected for the specific industry niche in which they are filed and actively used. Unless Hormel plans to expand their business to sending out billions of unsolicited emails advertising v1aagra and c1a1is, phishing scams, and the like, they have no business staking a claim for the word "spam" in the email/telecommunications industry niche. First off, it would go against trademark law, and second of all, well, really, it goes back to the main point. Thankfully, the USPTO doesn't rubber stamp every single trademark claim like they do patents, and I hope that the EU equivalent to the USPTO is equally sensible as time goes on, as they have been in this case.

      --
      The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
    20. Re:Well.... by rca66 · · Score: 1
      Windows wasn't a generic term until Microsoft trademarked it.

      I wonder what the english speaking people called the holes in the walls of their houses, where the sun was coming through, before Microsoft trademarked it. But probably they were simply not able to call anything anyhow - as they hadn't any Word yet.

    21. Re:Well.... by bangwhistle · · Score: 1

      I've gotta speak up for those of us who actually ENJOY Spam, the meat product. Hormel sells millions of cans a year, and I know I'm not eating all of them. Fry it up crispy, yum it's as good as bacon. As to Hormel claiming the trademark- they have been open minded about the use of "spam" to refer to UCE, and now are realizing they've created a monster. My understanding is trademark law is not on their side. Where Spam does not refer to a food product, they can't trademark it (see Apple computers, Apple records).

    22. Re:Well.... by KlomDark · · Score: 0, Troll

      In my opinion, Monte Python is the least funny excuse for 'comedy' I've ever had the displeasure of watching. How completely boring. However, I bet it looks really funny on paper, as it's all clever plays on words, but it gets totally lost in the translation to film.

      What I've noticed is Monte Python is not funny at all while watching it, however it is funny to talk about it after suffering through watching it.

      I've thought about this a lot, as I've known a lot of people who think it's the best thing since sliced Spam, but I just find it drab and lame. I've even tried watching it again, figuring perhaps when I first watched it I was too young to get the humor, but no change in my observations. My theory is that I am either too smart or too stupid to find it funny. Having presented it like that, I'm sure you'll theorize the latter. :)

      But, sorry, I just don't get it. I find Silent Bob or Butt-Head much more entertaining. (Jay and Beavis are just the comic retards that follow the others around.)

    23. Re:Well.... by E+IS+mC(Square) · · Score: 1

      And of course, Doors wasn't a generic term until The Doors lead singer Jim Morrison masturbated on stage at a Miami concert.

      Just out of curiosity, what you did to call those holes in the walls of your house which can be closed/opened back then?

    24. Re:Well.... by EvanED · · Score: 1

      The Smoking Gun's Legal Document of the Year from a couple years ago is a brief filed in defense of someone accused of disorderly conduct and interfering with the staff, faculty, or students of an educational institutional for swearing at the principal did a Google search for the phrases "fuck," "fucking," "fucker," "mom," "baseball," "apple pies," "Chevrolet," "freedom of speech," "first amendment," "unconstitutional," and "sticks and stones may break my bones" and included the number of hits in the legal brief.

      The whole document is absolutely hilarious; next time you start to get cynical towards lawyers take a look, and you'll see at least one good guy out there. ;-) (And a public defender no less.)

    25. Re:Well.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      In an European supermarket?


      Shouldn't it be "In a European supermarket?"?
    26. Re:Well.... by StarfishOne · · Score: 1

      "Just out of curiosity, what you did to call those holes in the walls of your house which can be closed/opened back then?"

      Windows ;)

    27. Re:Well.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ok, you got me. I've never had SPAM.

    28. Re:Well.... by Ididerus · · Score: 1

      why do people think that europeans are so sophisticated? spam is FAR more popular in europe, even more so in asia. the US is about the only place where people won't eat the stuff.

      --
      I'm fighting The War on Drugs!
    29. Re:Well.... by MrTufty · · Score: 2, Funny

      To everyone who's replied to my comment. I should have stated that Windows wasn't a generic term for an operating system until Microsoft trademarked it.

      That's what I was referring to, not the generic use of windows as a whole. Or as a hole, covered with glass.

      As this whole discussion is related to a SPECIFIC use of a name as a trademark, I think some of you have been a little picky ;)

    30. Re:Well.... by walt-sjc · · Score: 2, Informative

      X-windows existed well before Microsoft windows. Microsoft did NOT coin the term "windows" when refering to rectangular regions on a screen, or to a windowing system (The original Windows was not an OS, but just a GUI layer on top of DOS - much like X-windows is a GUI layer on Unix.

    31. Re:Well.... by PygmySurfer · · Score: 1

      And that is the problem with the argument, people are so self-centric it doesn't occur to them that Hormel has been using "spam" (SPiced hAM) since the 1930's, which I think predates all unsolicited email (for the exception of p3n1$ en1@rg3m3n+ emails, which predates everything).

      And they waited until now to apply for a trademark? Maybe they've only themselves to blame...

    32. Re:Well.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Although it doesn't sound right, In An European is correct.

      If the following word starts with a vowel then it's an. eg. a british person, an american

    33. Re:Well.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Although it doesn't sound right, In An European is correct.

      No, it's not.

      If the following word starts with a vowel then it's an.

      Nope.

      eg. a british person, an american

      Well, at least your contrived examples are right.

    34. Re:Well.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Although it doesn't sound right, In An European is correct.


      You must be an American. There are several exception to the rule you mentioned, and exactly for the reason you mentioned. It is "a European".
    35. Re:Well.... by DragonWriter · · Score: 1

      The rejection was based on the fact that the term was already common in the domain the trademark was applied for.

      So if "Windows" or "DOS" was already common as a non-proprietary term for a computer OS when Microsoft applied for the relevant trademarks (actually, "DOS" might have been, but Microsoft's trademark was for "MS-DOS", not just "DOS"), you would have an analogy.

    36. Re:Well.... by DragonWriter · · Score: 1

      "X/Windows" is not the same "Windows"; the existence of "X/Windows" as a term for a proprietary product in use (trademarked or not) in the area "Windows" existed was targetting in is not the same thing as "Windows" already being a generic term for the thing Microsoft was seeking to trademark it as a label for. Hormel was really applying for a grossly abusive trademark that is akin to someone trying to trademark "tissue" as used to refer to a tissue, today in 2006, when the word has been in general use for countless years. Its nothing like Microsoft trademarking Windows for its GUI product.

    37. Re:Well.... by Brain+Damaged+Bogan · · Score: 1

      if they think that email spam has in some way diluted their brand and want to trademark the name spam, why didn't they sue Monty Python for their sketch so many years ago? I DON'T LIKE SPAM!!!!

      --
      -- Sex is the antonym of pringles. Once you pop it's time to stop.
    38. Re:Well.... by Lonewolf666 · · Score: 1

      Ahh, so I really missed something...
      I learned the rule at school, but obviously not all the exceptions :-(

      --
      C - the footgun of programming languages
    39. Re:Well.... by VJ42 · · Score: 1
      In TFA it says
      "...Hormel has embraced the pop culture reference - even helping to market "Spamalot," the musical comedy based on Monty Python's work - it has taken less kindly to attempts by businesses to incorporate the word into their product names. The company has been embroiled in a string of trademark disputes over the matter in the United States and elsewhere, fighting product names such as SpamBop, Spam Arrest, and Spam Cube. "
      So I guess they don't mind the use of spam when it's being used to actually descripe spam, and see it as free advertising; it's when it's being used to describe unwanted e-mail they have a problem, again from the TFA
      "Ultimately, we are trying to avoid the day when the consuming public asks, 'Why would Hormel Foods name its product after junk e-mail?'"
      --
      If I have nothing to hide, you have no reason to search me
    40. Re:Well.... by mdwh2 · · Score: 1

      Well, that didn't stop Microsoft from trademarking its windowing gui as "Windows", or its disk operating system as "DOS".

      But they lost their case against Lindows didn't they, based on that reasoning? And I seriously doubt they would succeed in a case against any of the operating systems which also use "DOS" in their name.

      Sure, they may have a trademark, but that doesn't mean they can enforce it against those using the word.

  2. Spam spam spam! by Rgb465 · · Score: 1

    I have a feeling Hormel will soon file suit against the surviving members of Monty Python...

    1. Re:Spam spam spam! by El+Torico · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Actually, Hormel should thank them. Monty Python and the first person to use the word "spam" to describe bulk e-mail probably did more to make Hormel's canned meat product known to the world than anyone else.

      --
      In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is usually crucified.
    2. Re:Spam spam spam! by Raistlin77 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Spam has been around since 1937. It was one of the few food sources widely available to the British in World War II (which is what Spam was in reference to in the Monty Python sketch Spam). It did just fine for the 33 years before Monty Python's Spam was first broadcast (1970). I highly doubt Monty Python had anything to do with it's popularity, and certainly neither did any internet abuse related use of the word.

    3. Re:Spam spam spam! by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Maybe, but nobody identifies the word Spam with canned meat. Worse, the word Spam gets a negative notion. Nobody wants Spam. Do you want Spam? No, you have a Spamfilter, you have a Spamblocker and a lot of other products that have 'Spam' in their name and generally mean "getting rid of that unwanted junk".

      That's decidedly NOT what you want your product identified with!

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    4. Re:Spam spam spam! by Atroxodisse · · Score: 1

      I have a spamblocker. It's called my nose.

      --
      Read my short stories - You won't regret it.
    5. Re:Spam spam spam! by Jesus_666 · · Score: 1

      I highly doubt Monty Python had anything to do with it's popularity, and certainly neither did any internet abuse related use of the word.

      Well, in Britain maybe. Over here in Germany I've only heard of it through Monty Python and the internet. Even now, I regard it to be a Corned Beef-workalike (the latter is actually being sold in Germany whereas I've never seen a can of SPAM here), even if Corned Beef might have been invented later.

      --
      USE HOT GRITS WITH STATUE OF NATALIE PORTMAN (NAKED AND PETRIFIED)
    6. Re:Spam spam spam! by ozbird · · Score: 1

      Worse, the word Spam gets a negative notion.

      Obviously you've never tried Spam (the "food")...

    7. Re:Spam spam spam! by omeomi · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Spam (the food) always gets a bad rap, but when cut into patties and fried, I think it's pretty tasty. Haven't had it in a long time, though...

    8. Re:Spam spam spam! by businessnerd · · Score: 1

      Actually, on the official SPAM web site, there is actually a link to the official Spamalot web site. I guess the people at Hormel Foods do have a sense of humor.

      --
      "It's not whether you win or lose, it's how drunk you get." -- H. J. Simpson
    9. Re:Spam spam spam! by crotherm · · Score: 1

      Maybe, but nobody identifies the word Spam with canned meat.


      What a silly statement. Not only was SPAM popular in Britan, during WWII, it was also popular in Hawaii. Today in Hawaii, you can go to McDonalds and get SPAM and noodle soup. And since my father is from those islands, I also grew up eating it.

      mmmmmmMMMMmMmMmmMM

      --
      "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible, make violent revolution inevitable" - JFK
  3. Poor Hormel. It's all the fault of those... by just_another_sean · · Score: 4, Funny
    --
    Creationist Textbook Stickers Declared Unconstitutional by CowboyNeal
  4. Number One by Billosaur · · Score: 5, Informative
    The European Office of Trade Marks and Designs, noting that the vast majority of the hits yielded by a Google search for the word made no reference to the food...

    SPAM search

    And what is the first item listed, you ask? Why WWW.SPAM.COM - From Hormel Foods Corporation. Includes history, fan club, and facts. I'm pretty sure Hormel has had to fork over a lot of money to keep them at the top of any search for SPAM, to keep the trademark from being wiped away.

    --
    GetOuttaMySpace - The Anti-Social Network
    1. Re:Number One by k98sven · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Seems to me that would be a bad call for Hormel and the EU court, although I suspect the quote here has probably been taken out of context and given undue weight.

      Thing is, I see no reason at all for how a trademark could become genericized merely by becoming a common word for something completely different. (Python reference intended)

      The point, as I learned it, was that a trademark becomes generic when it becomes the generic term for that product. E.g. "Cola" is a generic term for a certain type of soft drink, but "Coca-Cola" is not.

      "Yo-yo" used to be a trademark for a specific kind of spinning toy, but they lost it when it became the generic term for that kind of toy.

      "Windows" is a generic term to begin with. But it wasn't (and still isn't) a generic term for operating system software.

      Now "Spam" is indeed threatened as a trademark, since people indeed are referring canned corned beef in general as "Spam". But I can't see any relevance in whether people use the same term to refer to unsolicited email or not. It's not like there is any risk the two 'products' would ever be confused.

    2. Re:Number One by NewWorldDan · · Score: 1

      Seems to me that Hormel has an unquestioned trademark in the realm of canned ham. What they need to do is expand into the realm of unsolicted email such that only their brand of UCE can be referred to as spam. It's a longshot, sure. The other thing they could do is to solve the problem of unsolicited email thus removing spam from the marketplace. Don't ask me how they can solve that problem. If I knew, I'd be rich and popular.

    3. Re:Number One by Tony+Hoyle · · Score: 4, Insightful

      That's not what they were after.

      Hormel already have the tradmark for spam the meat product. They wanted the trademark for spam as unsolicited email as well.. The EU courts said no, which seems reasonable to me - that meaning of spam is part of the common language.

      It's the same as Microsoft asking a court to give them the trademark to 'Windows' meaning 'pieces of glass in the side of a house'. They wouldn't get it either (well, maybe in a US court, but not in an independent one).

    4. Re:Number One by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's too late, unsolicited email is already called spam. That would be like Microsoft producing a brand of glass coverings for holes in the wall called "Windows." They wouldn't be able to get a trademark on that because that is already the commonly used term.

    5. Re:Number One by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Yo-yo" used to be a trademark for a specific kind of spinning toy, but they lost it when it became the generic term

      Not to mention a popular greeting. Try it on your clients -- you'll have the market cornered in no time.

    6. Re:Number One by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      I thought Spam was trademarked, not strong marked.

      As I recall, with trademarks, you own all usage rights for the word, be it food or mail or music or whatever. Trademarks tend to be given to unique names. For example, Sony is a made-up word (based on sonus, the Latin word for sound). Having a trademark on the name Sony means they could sell anything they want and use the name Sony to identify it and no one else can. They can sell whatever they want and call it a Sony.

      With strongmarks, you own the usage rights for the word only in a selected area. Strongmarks tend to be given to common names. For example, Nationwide is a common word. They have a strongmark on the word as it pertains to selling insurance only. Someone else named Nationwide could sell, say, cheese, and no one would confuse the two companies. Actually, I recall Apple Computers was sued by Apple Records when their computers started making sounds. I assume they thought that when people start thinking of Apple and sound, they would think of Apple Computers by mistake. So in a subtle defiance, as I've heard, Apple's first sound was Sosumi (So-Sue-Me). By a strange twist of fate, almost two decades later, people _do_ think Apple Computers when they think of Apple and sound.

      But, trademarks can take on a life of their own. Take for example, Jell-O, Band-Aid, and Coke. These are all trademarked brand-names that have made their way into common lexicon. Jell-O is not gelatin, but Jell-O makes gelatin. Band-Aid is not an adhesive bandage, but they make them. Coke is not a cola, however Coca-Cola makes them. When brand-named trademarks make their way into the common lexicon, people start to forget what they are... seriously.

      I watched a game show where they passed a ball back and forth and had people name words in a category. One category was: name flavors of Jell-O. They went back and forth name flavors: lemon, lime, orange, cherry, etc. Then after a few, one team said chocolate. *BUZZ* No, they said, chocolate is not a flavor of Jell-O. I was practically screaming at the television-- chocolate pudding is one of Jell-O's top flavors! But, as it goes, everyone in that show assumed Jell-O meant gelatin and since you don't see chocolate gelatin, they were wrong.

      I believe I've even heard about Band-Aid trying to protect they're trademark in the past, because, do you ask for a Band-Aid or bandage? (Now that works in their favor.) Now, if you ask for a Band-Aid, do you get a Band-Aid bandage or a generic bandage? (That works against them.)

      The Coke one I don't hear much in this area, but I hear in regions of the U.S., Coke has come to mean generic cola.

      So, if I were Hormel, of course I would be concerned. Spam-email, even though it's unrelated to food, detracts from their brand recognition of their product. Some people have never heard of Spam, but they've probably heard of spam-email. Heck, those people might even see Spam on the self one day and think _it's_ a rip off of spam-email trying to make a fast buck. (Hey, there are all kinds in this world and not all appreciate history.)

      If they really own a trademark on Spam, then no one can call bulk unsolicited mail spam without their permission. But, without doing research on this, I'm going to assume that either (1) they haven't been fighting this until recently (which I wonder about because I haven't heard much about them fighting this phenomenon before) or (2) as this is another country perhaps the laws on trademarks are different and they really do only own the name Spam like strongmark would function here.

      Anyway, those are my two cents.
      --Dave Romig, Jr.

    7. Re:Number One by GuidoJ · · Score: 1

      Please note that in Europe, everybody uses the country code domain of Google like google.de, google.fr, google.nl, etc. (offtopic: www.google.eu does not work). Even better, google will automatically tranfer you to the country code domain when you type www.google.com in the address bar. If you try searching spam on one of those, you will notice that www.spam.com will not come very high.

    8. Re:Number One by Phroggy · · Score: 1

      The point, as I learned it, was that a trademark becomes generic when it becomes the generic term for that product. E.g. "Cola" is a generic term for a certain type of soft drink, but "Coca-Cola" is not.

      No, but "Coke" is, in the South.

      --
      $x='S24;r)>63/* h@<5+oZ)32"5cz';$me='phroggy'x$];
      $x=~y+ -xz+\0-Tx+;print$_^chop$me for split'',$x;
  5. Trademark defense by marmoset · · Score: 3, Funny

    The next time someone bitches about Apple protecting their iPod trademark, I'm just going to forward them a link to this article.

    1. Re:Trademark defense by oliverthered · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Their not trying to protect iPod their trying to to protect pod. Apple shouldn't have picked a common word to trademark in the first place.

      --
      thank God the internet isn't a human right.
    2. Re:Trademark defense by Banner · · Score: 1

      I have to wonder how much of this Hormel really wants to do (going to court and all that) and how much they just think they're obligied to do by the law to protect their trademark in other areas. They had to know going in to this that they didn't have a chance of winning it.

      So I have to suspect that they were only there out of fear of what might happen to their brand name in other legal area's if they didn't at least try.

    3. Re:Trademark defense by is+as+us+Infinite · · Score: 1

      No. They're trying to protect the word 'podcast' (or the prefix 'pod' as used to reference something to do with digital media players) from being trademarked by _another company_. They're not simply going after everyone who uses / creates their own variant of pod/podcast. They're trying to prevent the term from being locked up at all. They're not trying to lock it up for themselves, just to keep it open so that everyone can use it.

      Sorry for the OT rant. This is just something that everyone seems to have gotten wrong and is a pet peeve of mine.

      Disclaimer: I have never owned an Apple product.

      --
      Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur. . . . . . . .
    4. Re:Trademark defense by Buran · · Score: 1

      Apple does not have a trademark on the word "Pod". Their going after anyone who has "pod" in the name of a product is unwarranted and unfair. A "pod" has long been a term for a container that contains something else -- dictionary.com includes "protective container" as a definition.

      Yet Apple went after (and forced a name change of) a product that was just a laptop slipcase that protected the enclosed laptop from damage -- even though the name was just the dictionary definition of the item's function!

    5. Re:Trademark defense by Bryansix · · Score: 1

      I think I'm going to come out with an iPizzle since trademark law doesn't protect you from satire.

    6. Re:Trademark defense by stuartrobinson · · Score: 1

      This ruling may be relevant to the issue of Apple trying to gain control over the term 'podcasting'...

    7. Re:Trademark defense by crabpeople · · Score: 1

      Two wrongs don't make a right.

      --
      I'll just use my special getting high powers one more time...
  6. OT But by cordsie · · Score: 0

    Slightly off topic and at the risk of sounding like a troll, I just thought of a big dick joke a la Drew Carey and just had to share: "My dick is so big even the spammers stopped sending me mails."

    1. Re:OT But by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      *crickets chirping*

    2. Re:OT But by xoyoyo · · Score: 0, Troll

      *tumbleweed blows majestically across the prairie*

    3. Re:OT But by MrTufty · · Score: 1

      Yep, qualifies as a Drew Carey joke then. *watches paint dry*

  7. ordering instructions, please by revery · · Score: 5, Funny

    the most evident meaning of the term SPAM for the consumers ... will certainly be unsolicited, usually commercial e-mail, rather than a designation for canned spicy ham.

    I just want to know how to order breakfast correctly. The last time I asked for Spam spam spam spam spam spam ham eggs spam spam spam bacon and spam, I got 6 advertisements for Viagra and Cialis, 3 pleas for extraditing Nigerian capital, an offer to augment my anatomy and blueberry pancakes served with Raspberry syrup and 2 raw quail eggs.

    Please help!!

    Sincerely,

    A Sad Spam Solicitor

  8. Not entirely related but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    You would be surprised if I told you how many people I know that make decisions based on the result of a Google Fight. Google has become the fortune teller or the magic 8 ball of our time.

    1. Re:Not entirely related but... by Yvan256 · · Score: 2, Funny

      Not yet, it seems. The magic 8 ball is still more popular.

    2. Re:Not entirely related but... by Yvan256 · · Score: 2, Informative

      The parent said
      "You would be surprised if I told you how many people I know that make decisions based on the result of a Google Fight."
      not
      "You would be surprised if I told you how many people I know that make decisions based on the result of a Google."

  9. Can you keep a worthless trademark? by Chemisor · · Score: 1

    This leads to the question of whether a company should continue to be allowed to claim a trademark word that everyone on the planet uses for something entirely unrelated to that company or its product.

    1. Re:Can you keep a worthless trademark? by Billosaur · · Score: 1

      I suspect Xerox(tm) and Kleenex(tm) would have something to say about it. For more information, try this little piece from Media Literacy Review

      --
      GetOuttaMySpace - The Anti-Social Network
    2. Re:Can you keep a worthless trademark? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Trademarks only apply within particular markets anyway. If you are talking about food, SPAM means only one thing, Hormel's canned meat product. If you are talking about the internet, SPAM means unsolicited email.

    3. Re:Can you keep a worthless trademark? by isorox · · Score: 1

      I suspect Xerox(tm) and Kleenex(tm)

      Maybe in America, however in the UK the common term is "photocopy/copier" and "tissue"

    4. Re:Can you keep a worthless trademark? by gstoddart · · Score: 1
      This leads to the question of whether a company should continue to be allowed to claim a trademark word that everyone on the planet uses for something entirely unrelated to that company or its product.

      Absolutely. In the field of business in which they operate and no other. That is well established.

      Microsoft can't ask glaziers to stop advertising the service of installing new glass in your Windows(tm), or stop someone from selling fishing .NET(tm)s

      You're still allowed to play Dodge(tm) ball, or to Ford(tm) rivers.

      Unfortunately for Hormel, the word SPAM was initially created to describe their product, it wasn't a common word before that. Then the Python sketch and common usage of it sort of usurped their word. However, both xerox and kleenex have become generic terms over the years, and both trademark holders have been unable to prevent people to use the term. No company could sell a xerox machine or kleenex -- they would have to sell copiers and tissues.

      Their trademark can't stop the common public from using the word in anyway they see fit.

      Cheers
      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    5. Re:Can you keep a worthless trademark? by Tony+Hoyle · · Score: 1

      Ahh but we have Hoover(tm)

    6. Re:Can you keep a worthless trademark? by mooingyak · · Score: 1

      Maybe in America, however in the UK the common term is "photocopy/copier" and "tissue"

      Don't blame us just because you have funny words for Xerox and Kleenex.

      --
      William of Ockham had no beard. The most likely explanation is that it was chewed off by squirrels every morning.
    7. Re:Can you keep a worthless trademark? by flyingfsck · · Score: 1

      You mean 'Windows' and 'Word'?

      --
      Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
  10. Stupid question of the day by Rik+Sweeney · · Score: 4, Funny

    "Ultimately, we are trying to avoid the day when the consuming public asks, 'Why would Hormel Foods name its product after junk e-mail?'"

    These would be the same people that will ask why makers of glass-that-fits-into-buildings-to-allow-people-to- see-into-other-areas chose to name their product after Microsoft's Operating System?

    Get a grip, Hormel.

    1. Re:Stupid question of the day by El+Torico · · Score: 4, Funny

      Here's another one, "Mercedes, that's an odd name. Why would anyone name their daughter after a car?"

      --
      In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is usually crucified.
    2. Re:Stupid question of the day by Lazarian · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I kinda think that even though they lost the suit, it still might have inadvertantly been a way to promote Spam(TM). I cant remember the last time I've ever seen a commercial about it.

      It's odd that one of the company's most famous products never seems to get advertised on tv.

      (Obviously it'd be useless to get 180Solutions to help them promote it, although it'd be funny if they tried.)

    3. Re:Stupid question of the day by maxume · · Score: 1

      What would be the point? Not that many people sit around watching the tube wondering "What sort of canned, processed meat should I buy tonight?", in the case they want canned, processed meat, they go buy Spam, or if they lean that way, some regional variation like Scrapple.

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    4. Re:Stupid question of the day by foobsr · · Score: 1

      Hmmm, I bet that at least one parvenu exists who actually did it this way.

      CC.

      --
      TaijiQuan (Huang, 5 loosenings)
    5. Re:Stupid question of the day by c0d3h4x0r · · Score: 1

      I don't get this one. Why do people name their daughters after a car?

      --
      Moderator hint: a comment is neither "Flamebait" nor "Troll" if it is true.
    6. Re:Stupid question of the day by jabber · · Score: 1

      Google and Wikipedia are your friends.

      --

      -- What you do today will cost you a day of your life.
    7. Re:Stupid question of the day by hotdiggitydawg · · Score: 3, Funny

      Hang on let me get this straight, his daughter is "Mercedes" and his friends are "Google" and "Wikipedia"? What an odd bunch of people...

    8. Re:Stupid question of the day by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I want to name my kids Lexus, El Camino and F-150.

    9. Re:Stupid question of the day by wylderide · · Score: 1

      Or, why would anyone name their son after an alcoholic beverage? Rob Roy

      --
      This is the best restaurant I ever eat in
  11. Did the EU really find... by BlabberMouth · · Score: 2, Insightful

    that most people do not associate the term spam with the spicy canned meat? I think we are still far away from that actually occurring. They may have a point internationally. However, the term "spam" is still strongly associated with both unsolicited email and the ham product in most English speaking person's minds. That google has more hits for uncolicited email is irrelevant. Nevertheless, I do not think Hormel's mark has been diluted because this use is so completely different that has no real affect on its product.

    1. Re:Did the EU really find... by j00r0m4nc3r · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I thought trademarks were sort of industry-specific anyway. Like how there could be a cartoon called Thunderbirds, and a car called a Thunderbird. Maybe I just don't understand trademarks...

    2. Re:Did the EU really find... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "that most people do not associate the term spam with the spicy canned meat?"

      It isn't suprising that they found out this...

      "However, the term "spam" is still strongly associated with both unsolicited email and the ham product in most English speaking person's minds."

      I speak English and "spam" means unsolicited email to me and not some meat product. I've never seen "spam" meat product on sale. Perhaps you meant "most *native* English speaking person's minds"?

      The population of the EU is about 462 million, while the number of native English speakers is something like 60 million (population of the UK) which is less than 15% of overall EU population. Thus EU's decision makes perfect sense.

    3. Re:Did the EU really find... by ElleyKitten · · Score: 1

      Wasn't that cartoon called Thunderhawks?

      --
      "What is Internet Explorer 7? Are you saying we can't access the normal internet?" - I love tech support. Really.
    4. Re:Did the EU really find... by MrMr · · Score: 1

      is still strongly associated with both unsolicited email and the ham product in most English speaking person's minds
      But that would be about 10% of the population of the EU. For the 90% living outside Britain I would guess that only Monty Python fans will be aware that there is another meaning for the word spam besides unsollicitated bulk email.

    5. Re:Did the EU really find... by GroeFaZ · · Score: 1

      I feel a little uneasy pointing out the bleedingly obvious, but the vast majority of the EU does not speak native English and does not live in England which, according to wiki, is the main consument of spam in the EU. Or do you think it's coincidence that Monty Python, being British, invented the spam sketch? What the online "community" thinks about spam is made evident by a simple google search, and the result here seems very relevant because spam got its new meaning there.

      --
      The grass is always greener on the other side of the light cone.
    6. Re:Did the EU really find... by takotech · · Score: 1

      Thunderbirds was the puppet show that inspired Team America.

    7. Re:Did the EU really find... by bahwi · · Score: 1

      Wait, I thought Thunderbirds was a cartoon about inboxes fighting off spam? Crap, now I'm lost.

    8. Re:Did the EU really find... by deinol · · Score: 1

      However, the term "spam" is still strongly associated with both unsolicited email and the ham product in most English speaking person's minds.

      The point of Trademark is that they are for specific contexts. Like it wasn't a problem for Apple to sell computers and that other Apple company to sell Beatles records until Apple started selling music.

      So the judgement is reasonable in that they correctly ruled that a software package that claims to "prevent spam" is not going to make consumers think it will prevent them from eating a spicy ham product. The context of "spam" (food vs computers) is clear enough to consumers that Hormel cannot use their trademark to prevent computer companies from using the term.

      What a concept, a judge ruling correctly in an IP related case. Oh wait, this was in Europe. Why don't I live there? Ah right, my ancestors migrated to the Americas to avoid persecution in the old world. Maybe it's time to migrate back...

      --
      Got Apathy?
    9. Re:Did the EU really find... by Jhan · · Score: 1
      [spam] is still strongly associated with both unsolicited email and the ham product in most English speaking person's minds
      But that would be about 10% of the population of the EU. For the 90% living outside Britain I would guess that only Monty Python fans will be aware that there is another meaning for the word spam besides unsollicitated bulk email.

      Spot on. My parents here in Sweden used to buy some really tasty canned ham back in the 80's, which in retrospect I think must have been the official product in question. It was called "burkskinka", ie. simply Canned Ham.

      The same i18n was probably applied in all non-english markets. I guess what I'm trying to say is that 60% of Europeans have probably eaten spam at one point or another, but with localized names that aren't remotely similar to "spam".

      --

      I choose to remain celibate, like my father and his father before him.

    10. Re:Did the EU really find... by Bryansix · · Score: 1

      In other news... Google calls it's GMail filter spam but whenever I pull up the contents I get an add for the food product and not for unsolicited email. Why is that?

    11. Re:Did the EU really find... by IIH · · Score: 1

      I thought trademarks were sort of industry-specific anyway

      Not always. For example, someone wanted to trademark visa condoms but was refused even though condoms and credit cards are quite different markets. (visa being a pun on "permit to enter" for the condoms)

      --
      Exigo spamos et dona ferentes
    12. Re:Did the EU really find... by X.25 · · Score: 1

      Did the EU really find that most people do not associate the term spam with the spicy canned meat? I think we are still far away from that actually occurring. They may have a point internationally. However, the term "spam" is still strongly associated with both unsolicited email and the ham product in most English speaking person's minds.

      EU != 100% English speaking population.

      I only learned that "SPAM" is some type of meat product after I tried to find out why (email) spam was called that way.

      No, I have never eaten "SPAM" meat products. Sorry.

    13. Re:Did the EU really find... by StikyPad · · Score: 1

      Easy test -- just create a poll:

      Have you ever eaten Spam?

      1) Yes.
      2) No.
      3) That's unpossible!

    14. Re:Did the EU really find... by Phroggy · · Score: 1

      Spot on. My parents here in Sweden used to buy some really tasty canned ham back in the 80's, which in retrospect I think must have been the official product in question. It was called "burkskinka", ie. simply Canned Ham.

      The same i18n was probably applied in all non-english markets. I guess what I'm trying to say is that 60% of Europeans have probably eaten spam at one point or another, but with localized names that aren't remotely similar to "spam".


      My guess is that they bought a generic imitation of SPAM, not real Hormel SPAM. I'm almost certain that Hormel calls their product "SPAM" in every country they sell it. Brand names are usually not localized (although there are plenty of exceptions); I noticed on a can of Fanta soda I bought in Spain the label said "Un producto de The Coca-Cola Company".

      --
      $x='S24;r)>63/* h@<5+oZ)32"5cz';$me='phroggy'x$];
      $x=~y+ -xz+\0-Tx+;print$_^chop$me for split'',$x;
  12. Judges comments seemed odd? by zippthorne · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Based on the judge's comments from the article, the reason Hormel is being denied its claim of trademark dilution is that their trademark is diluted?

    --
    Can you be Even More Awesome?!
  13. Ugh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Hormal Foods created this word in 1937. This would be like telling Xerox that their name can be used somewhere else. While Xerox may be commonly used for any copy machine, Xerox still owns the trademark and other companies cannot put Xerox on their product. The same goes for Kleenex, Coca-Cola (in fact coke invented the word cola, and only lost the trademark due to failing to defend it). This is a crappy ruling.

    1. Re:Ugh by Tony+Hoyle · · Score: 1

      No it's like telling xerox that they can't stop someone creating a canned meat product called Xerox.

      Trade marks are specific to the trade in which they are used. Otherwise the double glazing salesmen wouldn't be able to sell me windows, and the mcdonalds fish and chip shop down the road would be in real trouble.

      Hormel do not product unsolicited commercial email (we hope). They definately weren't the first to do it, and the term is in the common language. They have no rights to a trademark for that use of the word.

    2. Re:Ugh by ebcdic · · Score: 1

      "This would be like telling Xerox that their name can be used somewhere else."

      Some day soon, human cloning will be possible. Unscrupulous companies will send round armies of cloned celebrities to try and sell you their products. People will call them xeroxes. Other companies will sell anti-xerox products that detect xeroxes as they come to your door (probably by consulting databases of known-cloned DNA) and hit them with hammers. Xerox will sue these companies, and lose, because no-one would confuse a celebrity-hammering device with a photocopier. This is how it should work, and the ruling is correct.

    3. Re:Ugh by multipartmixed · · Score: 1

      I understand that "Aspirin" has become dilluted in the US; everywhere else, it is a trademark describing ASA made by Bayer.

      And, once upon a time, Xerox's name was used for another product: warez!

      Yes, it's true! What delicious irony! Get it? Copies? Ho-ho!

      Oh, wait, that was on ftp.xerox.com.... So, let's see.. is that trademark subversion, or not? *head exploding*

      --

      Do daemons dream of electric sleep()?
    4. Re:Ugh by ebcdic · · Score: 1

      Aspirin is generic in the UK too

  14. Other brands by Bog+Standard · · Score: 2, Funny

    Well I guess the Coca-Cola Corp now know where they stand should they wish to persue a line in "other" products called coke....

    1. Re:Other brands by gurps_npc · · Score: 1
      It's the other way around. The product sold in cans, called 'coke' was originally called coke because it had cocaine in it.

      So techinically, the Cocaine producers should be able to sue Coca-cola for stepping on their trademark 'coke'.

      Although I guess coal processors could sue both of them for using the same word that originally meant "solid carbonaceous residue derived from low-ash, low-sulfur bituminous coal"

      --
      excitingthingstodo.blogspot.com
  15. spicy ham??? by michael_allison · · Score: 2, Funny

    since when did Spam become spicy? i've always been aware of its' tempting ham/chicken/various pork products goodness...and who can deny the succulent self juices that the log o' love is wallowing in? i'll never forget that summer when me and young becky atkins had our first taste of the forbidden half-ham/half-buffalo/half-emu pork product...the slimy, meat jello sliding down our chins in the summer sun... but i regress... spam is not spicy, unless you dress it up in something hot and sexy!

    1. Re:spicy ham??? by ThomsonsPier · · Score: 1
      It's always been so:

      Spiced

      Pork

      And dubious

      Meat products.

      I think that's right...

      This ruling is absurd. The trademark on the name has been in place for decades. All the company wants to do is prevent other companies from using it within their own company name, not remove it from the vernacular (which would be nigh-on impossible). Or is a trademark restricted to the indstry in which it was registered? If so, I'm starting Microsoft Sock Conditioners Incorporated.

      On a related note, can someone remind me why unsolicited email is called spam anyway? Is it because, like its edible couterpart, nobody likes it?

    2. Re:spicy ham??? by Volante3192 · · Score: 1

      Spiced != spicy. (Spam = Spiced ham)

      Spices include other flavor additives including oregano, paprika, thyme, salt, pepper and many many others.

      Spicy, on the other hand, implies something that is made with peppers having a non-zero Scoville rating.

    3. Re:spicy ham??? by everphilski · · Score: 1

      Stuff Posing As Meat

    4. Re:spicy ham??? by Orange+Crush · · Score: 1
      since when did Spam become spicy?

      Never. It's original name was "Spiced Ham," but the "spice" it refers to is salt.

    5. Re:spicy ham??? by Tony+Hoyle · · Score: 1

      Or is a trademark restricted to the indstry in which it was registered? If so, I'm starting Microsoft Sock Conditioners Incorporated.

      It is, and there is absolutely nothing to stop you doing that.

    6. Re:spicy ham??? by sshutt · · Score: 1

      Being lazy cant be botherd googling it either, but I think email spam got its name from the monty python sketch about the meat product
      I do have to disagree about no one liking Spam, been ages since we had any, but I seem to remember spam fritters were nice.

      --
      I love the smell of burning karma in the morning...
    7. Re:spicy ham??? by miller701 · · Score: 1
      I thought it was:

      Shoulder Pork and Ham

    8. Re:spicy ham??? by jazman_777 · · Score: 1

      Think of all the pork products you can: pork chops, tenderloin, bacon, ham, snouts, knuckles, pork rinds, scrapple. I'm sure there are others. Everything that doesn't make it into those goes into Spam.

      --
      Slashdot: Failed Car Analogies. Amateur Lawyering. Anecdote Battles.
    9. Re:spicy ham??? by Stringer+Bell · · Score: 1

      I thought this was hilarious. I actually laughed out loud. I lack mod points, though. Bummer.

    10. Re:spicy ham??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The article suffers from a common mistake. SPAM does not, and never did, stand for anything. It is not an acronym, just a name. Long ago, Hormal ran a contest allowing employees to submit names for their (then) new product, and SPAM was the winner. (Some claim that the inspiration for this was either "SPiced hAM" or "Shoulder of Pork and hAM" but reports are inconsistent.) As a metter of fact, there are no spices in SPAM at all. It consists of pork shoulder, ham, salt, water, sugar, and sodium nitrate (a preservative). It's odd that Hormel would have referred to it's own product as spicy, but given the ubiquity of these "backronyms," it's believable.

    11. Re:spicy ham??? by michael_allison · · Score: 1

      so we have firmly established that the edible (it does keep for over 100 years on the shelf and is the most favorite meat-type product of the Hawai'ian islands) type of spam is not, in fact spicy (unless, of course, you take my previous advice and dress it up in something sexy...maybe that little black number that always looked so good on it...) thanks for all the awesome responses...there's nothing i love better than posting a comment on /. while sitting in a tub full of spam and i think while we are on this subject we must ask the question, "if we know what's in spam, what exactly is in SPAM LITE?" (bulimic barnyard beasties?, skeletal scrawny swine?) who knows?

    12. Re:spicy ham??? by crabpeople · · Score: 1

      Bravo. You win this thread.

      --
      I'll just use my special getting high powers one more time...
    13. Re:spicy ham??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Satan
      Posing
      As
      Meat

  16. Re:So, lemme get this straight . . . by mwvdlee · · Score: 5, Informative

    You've got a serious case of patent == copyright == trademark.

    They are not all the same.

    The SCO/IBM case is (mainly) about copyright.
    The Transmeta/Intel case is about patents.
    Hormel's case is about a trademark.

    Besides, has Hormel really actively protected their trademark ever since people started using the word "Spam" for unsolicited e-mail? I've only heard about them doing so for the last two, or perhaps three, years.

    --
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  17. I wonder... by olyar · · Score: 1
    I wonder how many cans of Spam get bought as gag gifts thanks to all the publicity the product has gotten from the Monty Python skit, and from the name for junk e-mail.

    Companies spend all this money trying to get name recognition for their products, but then fail to see the value of the free publicity this kind of thing can get them. I can see being bugged by it if it there was any sort of room for product confusion - like everyone referring to soda as "Coke", but in this case, there's a clear distinction. No one is going to confuse "Spiced Ham" for junk e-mail.

    It just goes to show (once again) that corporations really don't get the internet. Just like the Weird Al Story a couple of weeks ago. Publicity doesn't have to be bad just because its not on your terms.

    --
    Custom, hands-free Linux installs. Instalinux
    1. Re:I wonder... by geekoid · · Score: 1

      true, but do you want your product assosiated with something everyone hates?

      Sinxe I write software foe windows, clearly I don't mind.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  18. Re:So, lemme get this straight . . . by putch · · Score: 1

    copyrights, patents and trademarks are different. while they all might fall under the umbrella of "intellectual property" they serve different purposes.

    IANAL.

    but, iirc, SCO is filing patent claim against for misusing specific code that was patented. i could be horribly wrong, I admit.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intellectual_property

    --
    just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand!
  19. /. community the for big corporation? by StateOfTheUnion · · Score: 1
    Actually I think that this is inline with trademark law. Hormel did not act on the use of the word SPAM by the online community until well after the new meaning had become well established. One has to protect trademarks or show significant effort to do so, or the trademark may become public domain. One can argue that "Coke" or "McDonalds" or even "Mickey Mouse" may have more meanings than denoted by trademark, but I believe that these companies have more vigorously protected their trademarks.

    Most telling from Hormel's spam site

    We do not object to use of this slang term to describe UCE [Unsolicited Commercial Email), although we do object to the use of the word "spam" as a trademark and to the use of our product image in association with that term. Also, if the term is to be used, it should be used in all lower-case letters to distinguish it from our trademark SPAM, which should be used with all uppercase letters.
    Hormel has chosen not to fight this as agressively as perhaps they should have . . . trademark dilution is a very slippery slope. As the new meaning that is endorsed by the compnay overwhelms the trademarked meaning, the trademark becomes more difficult to protect. While I am not advocating agressive trademark protection and defense, I am not surprised that Hormel is having difficulty.

    One can't have it both ways . . . allowing people to misuse or use trademarks in a way that confuses or dilutes the popular meaning and expecting full protection of the trademark. In fact I may get flamebaited modded for this, but I am a bit surprised to see many of the posts from the /. community side with the government protected corporate controlled trademark people instead of the more populist spam definition that grew out the grassroots computer user community.

    Perhaps this docile reaction from the /. community is because Hormel chose not to protect their trademark as aggressively as they could have . . . Unfortuately this would be a lesson to corporations. Trademark dilution is something that could happen . . . if they aren't agressive and vigilant.

    1. Re: /. community the for big corporation? by camusflage · · Score: 1

      What is unfortunate in this is that it punishes the company that "does the right thing", in allowing usage of the term to flourish as long as it was all lower case and in no way disparaged the fine products of the Hormel company. Now, they're at risk for losing their trademark for not "defending" it. This will simply encourage companies to go after Mike Rowe Soft, folks using keywords for PPC campaigns, and anything with the word "pod" in it. If you were Apple, and you saw this going down on Hormel, what would you do with anyone using "pod" in conjunction with audio files, video files, or portable music players?

      --
      The truth about Scientology, Xenu, and you: Operation Clambake
  20. RTFA by tygt · · Score: 3, Insightful
    I haven't seen a properly relevant posting here yet. From TFA:
    "has lost a bid to claim the word as a trademark for unsolicited e-mails ... We do not object to use of this slang term to describe (unsolicited commercial e-mail)," the company said on its Web site, "although we do object to the use of the word "spam" as a trademark and to the use of our product image in association with that term."
    They don't like the idea of anyone else having "spam" in a trademarked name; they were trying to assert trademark for unsolicited email (and thus be able to protect such a trademark). No doubt, they have a trademark for the (not-so) Spiced Ham, and the EU isn't questioning that. They just denied Spam's request for trademark over spam emails.
  21. Re:So, lemme get this straight . . . by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So let me get this straight, you make vague comparison between 3 cases of unrelated law (trademarks, copyright and patents) in a manner supportive of a question and then fail to ask a question?

    Since there was no intentional point to your comment, the unintentional point will have to suffice. Even although you didn't make direct use the phrase, the grouping is possibly a symptom.

  22. a Google search? by dk3nn3dy · · Score: 1

    "The European Office of Trade Marks and Designs, noting that the vast majority of the hits yielded by a Google search for the word made no reference to the food..."

    Of course on Google, which is connected to computers via a series of tubes, the most hits were about a computer related issue, but maybe in the real world the statistics would be slightly different... if you do a Google search on asp, you aren't going to find anything about Egyptian snakes.

    1. re: a Google search? by tygt · · Score: 1
      That's because the Egyptian snakes known as asps can't get into the internet's tubes, because those tubes are "filled with enormous amounts of material, enormous amounts of material."

      However:

      • Googling asp gets "about 3,990,000,000".
      • Googling asp egyptian snake gets "about 475,000".
      Clearly, if you go through the initial results (google asp), you should find some which mention an Egyptian snake. Eventually. Behind, of course, enormous amounts of material. Though, actually, right next to the "about x,xxx,xxx,xxx results for asp" Google does provide a handy link called [definition] which points right at the snake.

      Whatever.

  23. You missed an important point by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    SCO sued IBM over UNIX in US.

    Transmeta sued Intel in US.

    This decision was made by EU.

  24. any choice but to defend? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    from what i've read, hormel is only trying to defend itself against the commercial use of "spam". while there's not going to be any product confusion between spam and software, i don't see that they have much of a choice when it comes to defending their name.

    isn't that a key point with trademarks? you have to defend it? once you stop defending it, you are agreeing that anyone can use it and that can bite you back in your own space.

  25. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  26. Hey Hormel! Read THIS NOW! by eno2001 · · Score: 1

    I suggest that your product, no matter how you may percieve it has NEVER been a favorite. Why do you think that the term for unsolicited e-mail uses the "SPAM" name? BECAUSE NO ONE REALLY LIKES SPAM (both the canned meat product and the unsolicited e-mail) TO BEGIN WITH!!!! I would suggest that you consider renaming your product. Do some market studies and find out just how you can rethink things. Hell. Call Steve Jobs! He "thinks different", he could probably help you out of this scrape with insignificance. So here's my take on it.

    1. Reinvent yourself as hip, now, happening and totally new. In fact, why don't you "go out of business" and then start up as a new food company selling the same product under a new name, with new packaging and new applications.
    2. See if you can hook up with the latest trendy chefs and Food Network folks. If you can get the Iron Chef to feature you as the ingredient of the day, you'll be golden.
    3. You might want to thin out the spam formulation and put it in toothpaste tubes as a cracker topping.
    4. Or... you could even make "fun time" packs for kids like a Build Your Own Hotdog set where kids fill digestable casings with your meat product, suture it and then cook them for the ultimate meaty experience!
    5. A friend and I have also posited the possibility of a new meat based alcohol. In the ever increaing quest to prove manliness by the male segment of society, it should be possible to market it as a proof of manliness to drink your meat-a-hol.

    And that's just off the cuff! See. Hire ME as your idea man and I promise that while Spam (the food substance) will be a thing of the past, your new look and feel will propel you into more success than you've EVER experienced in all your years of existence.

    (Someone please mail this to Hormel corporate for me. M'kay?)

    --
    -"...bad old ideas look confusingly fresh when they are packaged as technology" - Jaron Lanier (Digital Maoism on Edge.o
  27. Trademarks by debrain · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Trademarks are a form of consumer protection. They allow you to buy Kellogg's Corn Flakes and get the product you are expecting, from the maker you presume to make it. The only real corporate protection is relatively incidental, being that it prevents competing and equivalent products from imitating the genuine article. So you have two purposes at work: consumer protection from confusion, and corporate protection from unfair competition arising from imitation.

    Does SPAM referring to "unsolicited email" confuse consumers, or misrepresent the corporate's product to unfairly compete? In this case the SPAM trademark applies to a canned meat product. The term is also in general use to refer to unsolicited email. They are separate industries, and consumers are unlikely to confuse unsolicited email with a canned meat product. Similarly, there are no concerns over unfair competition by imitation. Thus there is little harm to the consumer, nor a real concern to the corporation.

    Further, the SPAM trademark owners let the term become diluted over the years to the point where it is commonly accepted; had they intervened a decade ago, their arguments would have been stronger. They are likely statutorily obligated to actively protect their trademark rights. Even if not a statutory obligation, failing to protect their rights is prejudicial in the eyes of most courts.

    1. Re:Trademarks by Todd+Knarr · · Score: 1

      Actually Hormel has been pretty consistent in trying to enforce their trademark. They started back when spam was first becoming a popular term for unsolicited bulk e-mail. It's just that most of their efforts have failed on exactly your point: that the public's not likely to confuse e-mail with a processed meat product.

    2. Re:Trademarks by BillEGoat · · Score: 1
      Does SPAM referring to "unsolicited email" confuse consumers, or misrepresent the corporate's product to unfairly compete? In this case the SPAM trademark applies to a canned meat product. The term is also in general use to refer to unsolicited email. They are separate industries, and consumers are unlikely to confuse unsolicited email with a canned meat product. Similarly, there are no concerns over unfair competition by imitation. Thus there is little harm to the consumer, nor a real concern to the corporation.

      It's hard for me to say that Hormel has no concern when "spam" was a unique word (unlike "windows" and "apple") that would have resulted in relevant search results referring to their product, but now refers exclusively to annoying email.

      Under current Trademark systems, what you say is all very true. But the widespread use of the internet by consumers has introduced a change that challenges the usefulness of the "industries" concept of trademark. People used to find products and services almost exclusively by category, by way of tools like yellow pages, trade magazines and advertisements in certain contexts. Those tools are still used, but a new method of finding goods has emerged - the keyword search. And the trade-specific nature of trademarks has lost some usefulness to the consumer because of it. As a consumer, I expect a search for "ipod" to reference the Apple Computer Corp music player product, not toothpaste, buttons, or canned meat.

      Perhaps Hormel should rename SPAM to iPod...

  28. Product name != term for everyday object by Vellmont · · Score: 1

    Spam is a product name, not a general term for something almost every single person has in their home. It's MUCH more common to refer to windows as the glass thing than the software thing. The opposite is true for spam. When was the last time that the spiced meat product usage came up in one of your conversations? When was the last time that the unwanted email usage came up in conversation? I don't eat the spiced meat product, and I don't know anyone that does. Nearly everyone that has an email address gets the unwanted email though, or at least knows someone that does. In other words the crappy email definition is much more widely used than the spiced meat product usage.

    I'd say Hormel is in some danger of a generation of kids growing up wondering why Hormel named Spam after crappy email (ok, maybe just the dumb kids). I also think Homel lost this battle long ago. They should give up the battle and admit that they've lost the trademark as far as people including Spam in bulk-email stopping products.

    If Hormel was smart, they'd see this as a product opportunity. Use the fact that people are always thinking of your product name. Have a weird ad campaign that associates the two in some funny way. Sponsor some kind of spam email blocking contest. Give away free Spam filtering to anyone that wants it. Sheesh, they own the damn trademark as far as the spiced-meat thing is concerned, start taking advantage of how your product is on the lips of people on a daily basis. The way to fight an association you don't like is to create a new association, not dumb legal tactics.

    --
    AccountKiller
  29. Spam is also an Energy Drink... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I like their motto: 'Living on the edge'. True for spammers if you ask me.
    check it here: http://www.spam-energydrink.com/

  30. Success for SCO and Transmeta is not guaranteed by Lonewolf666 · · Score: 1

    Others have already pointed out the difference between patent, copyright and trademark.

    I'd like to add that filing a lawsuit does not guarantee you win. In the case of SCO, it already seems they will suffer a massive defeat (see Groklaw.net ;-). Transmeta may be more successful, if they can show violation of their IP in court.

    --
    C - the footgun of programming languages
  31. Spam sales are up by rueger · · Score: 1

    Whether or not the Spam brand name is being diluted, everything I see says that sales of SPAM and other Hormel products are up, up, up. Surely name recognition has increased in the last five years, arguably because the word "spam" has become so commonplace.

    The Specialty Foods and All Other segments continued their strong performance from the first quarter and the Grocery Products segment reported impressive growth in microwave tray items, HORMEL bacon bits and the SPAM family of products....

    The All Other segment improvement in sales and operating profit was driven by the International operating segment. Export sales of the SPAM family of products were up 37 percent and continued improvement from the China operations were the biggest contributors.

  32. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 3, Informative

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  33. +1 Funny, spelling errors and all by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Heh. Pursue a "line" indeed.

    Captcha = "shakes"

  34. Simulated Pieces of Anonymous Mutants by Irvu · · Score: 3, Funny
    Hormel has made a point of suing many of the great defamers of their meat(ish) product. My personal favorite is when they sued Jim Henson for the character Spa'am leader of the Pig Pirates. The judge dismissed the case saying: "The American public can tell the difference between a puppet and a lunchmeat." (see Spam Bobbleheads, Spam Costumes and Spam Shorts. Spam Underwear has also been sold on occasion but I have yet to find any online.

    You can understand why the company puts in so much effort to protect the good name though. After all Spam (Scattered Parts of Anonymous Mammals) is important to many people. Both Hawaii and Alaska love Spam. As has been noted about Alaska:
    Spam® is like Alaska's only Congressman Don Young. Everyone makes fun of him, but he always wins by a landslide even though no one will ever admit voting for him. That's the story with Spam®. Nobody will admit eating it, but somebody is out there buying over 2,000 cans a day in Alaska.


    For more tasty info on the Simulated Pieces of Appalling Mutants see The Amazing and Fabulous Spam Site which includes a 300 DPI Scan of SPAM

    a href="

      It's funny to see how much effort the company puts into targeting the brand given that Spam is so important to
    1. Re:Simulated Pieces of Anonymous Mutants by Amazing+Quantum+Man · · Score: 1

      That's the story with Spam®. Nobody will admit eating it, but somebody is out there buying over 2,000 cans a day in Alaska.

      Darn! I knew I shouldn't have used my supermarket club card when buying all that SPAM®!!! Now they know it's me.

      --
      Fascism starts when the efficiency of the government becomes more important than the rights of the people.
    2. Re:Simulated Pieces of Anonymous Mutants by Kaenneth · · Score: 1

      I think ID software used that as a texture in DOOM.

  35. Here's one... by Lazarian · · Score: 1

    "If Hormel was smart, they'd see this as a product opportunity. Use the fact that people are always thinking of your product name. Have a weird ad campaign that associates the two in some funny way." Spam. Bad for your inbox, good for your lunchbox!

  36. Re:Product name != term for everyday object by everphilski · · Score: 1

    If Hormel was smart, they'd see this as a product opportunity. Use the fact that people are always thinking of your product name. Have a weird ad campaign that associates the two in some funny way.

    They have billboards in Minnesota (where SPAM is manufactured and the SPAM museum is located) which are humerous in nature. Last trip through the god-forsaken state (I'm from Wisconsin), one of them made a reference to the "other" spam...

  37. Re:Product name != term for everyday object by LWATCDR · · Score: 1

    Spam the meat really isn't bad.
    Hormel I am afraid is going to regret not fighting this sooner. They where pretty reasonable about their trademark and now they are getting nailed.
    Frankly I think this is a bad ruling. They just wanted to stop the commercial use of the the word Spam for junk email blockers and such. This seems reasonable to me.

    --
    See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
  38. EU uses Google to decide by zitintheass · · Score: 0

    No shit, Google pwned again.

  39. This is the commonly accepted distinction: by Lord+Ender · · Score: 1, Redundant

    "SPAM" is junk meat. "Spam" or "spam" is junk email.

    --
    A slashdotter who didn't build his own computer is like a Jedi who didn't build his own lightsaber.
  40. Re:My New Software by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    you scared me. at a first sight I had the impression you said "Bill's Gay"...

  41. On the Internet... by widget54 · · Score: 1

    On the Internet, SPAM fries you!

    --
    sic transit gloria mundi
    1. Re:On the Internet... by MooUK · · Score: 1

      Spam is only likely to fry you if you lie on your mail server all day...

      On the other hand, in Soviet Russia it's often cold, no?

  42. Unless you are from Texas by balsy2001 · · Score: 1

    "Cola" is a generic term for a certain type of soft drink, but "Coca-Cola" is not. In Texas all softdrinks are called Coke. Are their settlements for trademark infringement bigger there too?

    --
    GENERATION 27: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation.
    1. Re:Unless you are from Texas by StalinsNotDead · · Score: 1

      I do believe there have been law suits involving Coke at restaurants. That's why (at least in Florida) if you ask for a Coke, and they serve Pepsi, the server asks if Pepsi is alright.

      --
      Thanks to the internet, we can now all die alone together! -SomeWoman
  43. Re:Product name != term for everyday object by Greg+Lindahl · · Score: 1

    You're confused about trademarks: they don't give you exclusive use of the word in all ares of life, only in a particular one. So since spicy ham in a can is unlike unwated email, they'd never be able to stop this usage anyway.

    It doesn't matter how reasonable their wish is. Trademarks just don't work like that.

    As an example of this overall idea, consider Apple vs. the Beatles company Apple, which had trademarked "Apple". Apple was OK using Apple to describe computers, as long as they didn't do music.

  44. If it weren't for the e-mails by Bromskloss · · Score: 1

    ...a lot less persons would know about their product.

    --
    Swedish plasma phys. PhD student; MSc EE; knows maths, programming, electronics; finance interest; seeks opportunities
  45. Isn't ... by Savage-Rabbit · · Score: 1
    Now "Spam" is indeed threatened as a trademark, since people indeed are referring canned corned beef in general as "Spam". But I can't see any relevance in whether people use the same term to refer to unsolicited email or not. It's not like there is any risk the two 'products' would ever be confused.


    ... any publicity supposed to be good publicity? I suppose you could have your self a good little argument about that. Speaking for myself I only found out about Hormel and it's products in the first place when I got curious about the origins of the word "Spam" after the term came to be applied to unsolicited E-mail. If anything people are probably more likely to notice the product in a supermarket shelf because now it sticks out among a slew of other similar products for having the same name as Junk mail. I wonder if they can back up their trademark dilution claim with a reduction in sales?
    --
    Only to idiots, are orders laws.
    -- Henning von Tresckow
  46. A bug-fix is really a... by Resident+Netizen · · Score: 1

    So can we start calling bug-fixes BANDAIDS?

    --
    My other sig is a Porsche!
  47. Re:So, lemme get this straight . . . by Banner · · Score: 1
    Besides, has Hormel really actively protected their trademark ever since people started using the word "Spam" for unsolicited e-mail? I've only heard about them doing so for the last two, or perhaps three, years.


    Actually yes, they started fighting this a while back when it came to their attention. I think their first efforts were back in the 90's. The problem then was who do you sue? Everybody who uses the word? (And please, no RIAA jokes!!)

  48. Spicy Canned Meat? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I think the biggest issue is that the judge refered to Spam as a "meat." I think "quasi-digestable meat-flavored puddy." would be more accurate.

    Also, remember that the term "spam" was adopted for junk email because of the concept of dropping a can into a fan and it getting splattered everywhere.

  49. Re:Hey Hormel! Read THIS NOW! by Guppy06 · · Score: 1

    "I suggest that your product, no matter how you may percieve it has NEVER been a favorite."

    eno2001, may I introduce you to the states of Alaska and Hawaii? AK and HI, this is eno2001.

    Just becuase you and six people you know don't like the stuff doesn't mean there aren't enough people out there that keep buying the stuff for it to continue to be quite profitable. Why would Hormel care about their trademark so much if their food product wasn't profitable enough to justify the expense of these legal actions? Do you see Circuit City going after the DivX people much any more?

    The entire point of this recent action by Hormel in the EU was to prevent somebody from trademarking terms like "Spamhaus" or "Spam Assassin" or any other use of the term "Spam" in the trademarked name of a U(C)E-related software or service. As they've stated, Hormel has no real problem with the use of the term "spam" as slang, but they have a problem with having to compete with another trademarked definition of the term. Especially when the canned meat product is (ZOMG1) still selling well.

  50. it could be a gameshow... by Wizzerd911 · · Score: 0

    I think they'll eventually turn this idea into a gameshow. I could picture it now "Okay, which do you think will be the first result found for a search for "DDR". Will it be RAM or Dance Dance Revolution?" I bet NBC would pick that one up.

    --
    Is it just me or is it not going to upgrade to Vista in here?
    1. Re:it could be a gameshow... by VJ42 · · Score: 1

      Soory, I'm off to sell that idea to Channel 4 here in the UK.

      --
      If I have nothing to hide, you have no reason to search me
  51. Hormel Junk Email Filtering Service by DavidD_CA · · Score: 1

    You know, this whole issue might be avoided if Hormel were to have ventured into the IT industry years ago. They could have pioneered a junk email filtering service like Postini or Cloudmark.

    Then they could have successfully argued that they own the trademark "SPAM" in both industries (food and IT) and start protecting their trademark accordingly.

    And, who wouldn't buy Anti-Spam(R) from the people who invented SPAM(R) in the first place?

    --
    -David
  52. Re:So, lemme get this straight . . . by Amazing+Quantum+Man · · Score: 1

    No, nobody, including the principals, knows what the SCO/IBM case is about. This, of course, is mainly due to SCO not telling the Court or IBM what they're complaining about, and changing their arguments every other week.

    --
    Fascism starts when the efficiency of the government becomes more important than the rights of the people.
  53. Contents of SPAM by jeremyclark13 · · Score: 1

    rather than a designation for canned spicy ham
    As we all know Spam most certainly does not contain any ham or any kind but instead contains copious amounts of "Peckers" according to Billy Bob Thorton. UmmHumm

    --
    Don't you hate glorious self-promotion? Visit my Blog
  54. It's worse for the Spam makers by Opportunist · · Score: 1

    Usually, when people go to court over names, it's that someone tries to use the "good" name of a product to sell his own product. Or that someone wants to sell a product in a new area where another company holds the name rights. In general, though, both companies want a "good" name and people feeling "good" about the name, so they buy it.

    With Spam, it's reverse. Spam, in the meaning of junk email, is something nobody wants. It has a bad reputation and my guess is the fear that this bad name might bleed over to the Spam in the sense of canned meat, that people think canned meat called Spam is bad. It might not be tangible, but subconscious connections can be at least as powerful as conscious ones.

    Spam's brand name is not getting "exploited" by those making Spambusters, Spamfilters, Spamwalls and Spamblockers. It is actually being hurt by connecting the brand name with something unwanted, something most people do not want to have at all and would almost pay to get rid of.

    Just imagine a "virus" would be called a "Butterfinger" and ponder what this might do to the sugary snacks...

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  55. This is an odd switch by geekoid · · Score: 1

    I exchenged email with Hormel about spam years ago. At that time they wee fine with it. As a matter of fact, they used to say on their website that is was ok, depending on the case.

    --
    The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  56. Hormel by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Good!
    What this means is that do not have to switch to the alternate name for unscolicited junk email. I'm sure that they would not have objected to us calling it "Whore Mail".

  57. Re:Hey Hormel! Read THIS NOW! by Amazing+Quantum+Man · · Score: 1

    Why do you think that the term for unsolicited e-mail uses the "SPAM" name? BECAUSE NO ONE REALLY LIKES SPAM (both the canned meat product and the unsolicited e-mail) TO BEGIN WITH!!!!

    BZZZT!!!!! And thank you for playing. Here's your lovely parting gift.

    UBE is known as "spam" because of the Monty Python sketch, wherein a group of vikings kept singing the phrase "Spam", until it drowned out all other conversation, much as junk email does with your (unfiltered) inbox.

    --
    Fascism starts when the efficiency of the government becomes more important than the rights of the people.
  58. Re:Hey Hormel! Read THIS NOW! by Banner · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I like Spam (the product not the email). Have you ever tried it? It's actually not bad. The term 'spam' for email has absolutely nothing to do with the taste of the product and whether or not people like it, (and from the number of sales and length of time on the market it is apparent that many people do like SPAM).

    It has to everything do with the Monty Python skit however. They're the ones (if anyone can be blamed) most responsible for the coining of the phrase. When I first heard the comment 'Spam Email' used, like pretty much all the other net geeks I associated it immediately with the skit, cause it was funny and all us net geeks watched Python.

    That the phrase is still in use twenty years later is rather surprising. I don't think anyone knows who the first computer user was to use the term, it's just one of those things that happened. But it has nothing to do with people's like or dislike of the product.

  59. Googlefight by RandomPrecision · · Score: 1

    So Googlefighting can establish law now? Cool.

  60. OB: Fish called Wanda by miller701 · · Score: 2, Funny

    Or Porsche (Portia)?

  61. Using good taste in Trademark Law by NetSettler · · Score: 1

    Most telling from Hormel's spam site

    We do not object to use of this slang term to describe UCE [Unsolicited Commercial Email), although we do object to the use of the word "spam" as a trademark and to the use of our product image in association with that term. Also, if the term is to be used, it should be used in all lower-case letters to distinguish it from our trademark SPAM, which should be used with all uppercase letters.

    Hormel has chosen not to fight this as agressively as perhaps they should have . .

    Well, the reason it's called a "trade mark" and not a "trade name" is that it's allowed to just be a shape. For example, it may well be that there are lots of references to things being 3 meters long (3m) in the net, but 3M's logo doesn't come into jeopoardy as a result of that...

    I have to wonder if this suit would have been decided differently if Google's search were strictly case-sensitive. For example, a search for marks that are multiword or that contain characters that google thinks are word breaks or even that are not characters at all will be thwarted by this.

    Another possibility is that Hormel's IP lawyers made an ineffective case, failing to cite some of the ways that a Google search might not tell the whole story, or might bias the result.

    At least one argument I'd have raised is that any word that managed to catch on (requiring little more than it be short and pronounceable) would have certainly been the dominant Google search result when the issue in question is "the informal name for something that occurs in our mailboxes more than anything else on earth". That is, did they take into account the fact that people mention what they see, and that there's more email spam than virtually anything else just because there's so much spam, not because spam didn't get the word out?

    A thought exercise: If we'd decided to call spam something else, like "coke", would Coke have lost its trademark? How zealously has Coke defended itself against the illegal drug trade calling its product "coke"? If Coke gets more hits, I suspect it's not because Coke has more zealously defended its name, I suspect it's because it tastes better than SPAM.

    So if we make a graph of the tastiness of the item in question and plot whether it's trademark protected even in the case that it had become the common name for spam, would we find that everything on the "not very tasty end and hence not much talked about or sold" got a "no" and everything on the "very tasty and hence highly deployed" got a "yes". Is this "tastiness step function" the definition of what it takes to be protected as intellectual property?

    I think Hormel correctly protected its mark by identifying that in a particular form of use, they asserted control, and that the common use was to be distinguished. Barring the use purchase of a large number of armed soldiers world-wide, something thankfully out of the purchase power of even most corporations, I don't see how they could control what the world does. And I thought trade mark law was about telling people what they could and couldn't do, not about telling corporations when they have and haven't spent their precious marketing dollars correctly.

    --

    Kent M Pitman
    Philosopher, Technologist, Writer

  62. Maybe in the US by aepervius · · Score: 1

    Maybe in the US Spam=Can of food. Here we use "Corned Beef", "Canned ham" or suchlike. I never heard in my whole life in the 2 EU country I lived and 6 different placed, that spam=canned food. Only until recently I was taught the other meaning....Here on slashdot.

    --
    C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
    visit randi.org
  63. BEEF? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    not to nitpick, but I thought everyone knew that it was SPiced hAM.

    Still tastes like crap...

    But in Hawaii, it is the most popular meat available

  64. I'll have spam, spam, cheese, spam... by Vindaloo · · Score: 1

    I just had a Spam McMuffin for breakfast. Wait, did I just infringe someone's trademark?

  65. Answer of the day by hellfire · · Score: 2, Funny

    Perhaps that's where their daughter was conceived?

    --

    "All great wisdom is contained in .signature files"

    1. Re:Answer of the day by Phroggy · · Score: 1

      "What, like, in the back of a Volkswagen?"

      --
      $x='S24;r)>63/* h@<5+oZ)32"5cz';$me='phroggy'x$];
      $x=~y+ -xz+\0-Tx+;print$_^chop$me for split'',$x;
  66. Re:Product name != term for everyday object by NotReallyInterested · · Score: 1

    They have billboards in Minnesota... Last trip through the god-forsaken state (I'm from Wisconsin)...

    You're from Wisconsin, and you refer to Minnesota as "god-forsaken"?

    Glass houses, my boy, glass houses...

  67. No Such Thing As Bad Publicity by blueZhift · · Score: 1

    There's no such thing as bad publicity. Hormel really needs to get smart and leverage the mindshare that spam has to sell some real SPAM. Yeah, nobody likes the email variety, but everyone knows the name now, so use it to sell some meat!

    1. Re:No Such Thing As Bad Publicity by chmod+a+x+mojo · · Score: 0

      One quick question.... since when has SPAM been considered meat? I mean i can see meat BY-product (maybe).

      --
      To err is human; effective mayhem requires the root password!
  68. Yes, they have by alispguru · · Score: 1
    Besides, has Hormel really actively protected their trademark ever since people started using the word "Spam" for unsolicited e-mail?

    Quoting from the Hormel-created SPAM & the Internet page (which has been around for quite some time now):

    We do not object to use of this slang term to describe UCE, although we do object to the use of the word "spam" as a trademark and to the use of our product image in association with that term. Also, if the term is to be used, it should be used in all lower-case letters to distinguish it from our trademark SPAM, which should be used with all uppercase letters.

    Their attitude toward the Internet community's use of their trademark has been fairly enlightened to date.
    --

    To a Lisp hacker, XML is S-expressions in drag.
  69. Re:Hey Hormel! Read THIS NOW! by eno2001 · · Score: 1

    Re-read what I wrote. Maybe you will gain a new appreciation for what it says if you THINK.

    --
    -"...bad old ideas look confusingly fresh when they are packaged as technology" - Jaron Lanier (Digital Maoism on Edge.o
  70. Spamalot Souvenir by NotReallyInterested · · Score: 1

    I saw Spamalot on Broadway a year or so ago (Tim Curry! Hank Azaria! David Hyde Pierce!), and they were selling limited edition cans of Spam in the lobby, with a Spamalot label with a cartoon of the cast.

    5 bucks.

    Yes, I bought one.

  71. Do roses smell better than cat ass? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The reason I ask is my cats smell each others asses regularly and never seem interested in sniffing the roses I bring in for my wife. So I'm just wondering what you would read into that?

    and you just got a +4 insightful for correctly identifying a shoddy sample. tsk tsk tsk. :)

    1. Re:Do roses smell better than cat ass? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I say, if it smells good, snif it.

      Soooooo... your wife is a stay at home right?, and you work durring the day? Just asking.......

  72. Chicken before the egg? by Bryansix · · Score: 1

    Lest you forget that Spam has been around for a lot longer as a trademark for canned ham and it was not a word in common usage before Hormel started using it. Then later people used it to describe unsolicited bulk email. You analogy falls apart on that basis.

  73. Re:My New Software by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Well..you are nothing. I am coding multiple gateways for each bill payment and I am calling it Bill Gates.

  74. No remainder by MooseDontBounce · · Score: 1

    I used to work with a person from Iowa that did summer work at the plant. He would joke that "Pigs go in, Spam comes out, no remainder"

  75. Re:Hey Hormel! Read THIS NOW! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Even better, sell the domain name "SPAM.COM" to an AS/AV vendor, and make more money than you ever did on canned meat products!

  76. Re:Hey Hormel! Read THIS NOW! by WolfZombie · · Score: 1

    Eh, the only naming convention Steve Jobs could recommend to Hormel to rename SPAM would be to call is iSPAM :)

    Then hordes of new naming conventions would follow. The method of canning spam would be renamed SPAMCanning, and the method of shipping the SPAM would be called SPAMCasting.

  77. Thanks for reminding me of Postini by cheros · · Score: 1

    They're rent in the same office block as I do, so I ought to go and have a chat with them :-)

    --
    Insert .sig here. Send no money now. Owner may sue, contents will settle. Batteries not included.
    1. Re:Thanks for reminding me of Postini by DavidD_CA · · Score: 1

      Yeah they are great. The ISP that I previously worked for had used them for a year or so, and our customers really loved it. Management decided the service was too expensive and brought the filtering in-house though. Mistake IMHO.

      By the way, if you can't work with Postini directly (because of your size) try one of the many resellers. The one I use is www.mxresources.com

      --
      -David
  78. Expect spam about spam by cheros · · Score: 1

    I think I'd agree with the attempt to get their name protected. I mean, if some dork in their marketing department decides on a junk email campaign it's going to get very complicated to sort it out.

    "Hi, I'm complaining about your spam"
    "Oh, terribly sorry Sir, was the product in a broken container?"
    "No, it's about your email"
    "You just said spam"
    "Yes, that's what I meant"

    {etc}

    --
    Insert .sig here. Send no money now. Owner may sue, contents will settle. Batteries not included.
  79. Re: Same vs Different Products by TaoPhoenix · · Score: 1

    I'm pretty sure I've seen companies get nasty when people develop cross products to borrow someone else's famous name.

    Is the percentage of use of "spam" applied to the unrelated topic of emails *more* than people referring to Spam the meat. If true, I can definitely see how this could weaken a brand image.

    There was a case where a Portable Toilet maker tried to make a "Here's Johnny" line of toilets. They were successfully shot down by Johnny Carson's legal team.

    I think the usage could have been blocked if the company was (were?) fierce enough at the very dawn of the graphical WWW about 1993. In 2006 it's too late.

    --
    My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
  80. Mystery meat by MrPrometheus · · Score: 1

    They always have their 4th place spot on google for "mystery meat"

  81. Better strategy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I don't know what the point is of all the moaning about this (on Hormel's part)... if they wanted to complain they should have done it a long, long time ago before the meaning change became entrenched

    Hormel should rename SPAM "Email".

  82. Re:Product name != term for everyday object by p3d0 · · Score: 1

    You're mistaken. Just try to start marketing "Coca-Cola" brand running shoes and see how far you get.

    --
    Patrick Doyle
    I mod down every jackass who puts his moderation policy in his sig. Oh, wait a sec....
  83. In other news, Coke sues coal miners, drug dealers by PRMan · · Score: 1

    In other news, Coca-Cola sues coal miners and drug dealers for using the word "coke"....

    Please, it's really unfortunate that their brand name is being diluted, but you don't see Coca-Cola complaining that their trademark is a dangerous drug or a bunch of slimy black goo.

    --
    Peter predicted that you would "deliberately forget" creation 2000 years ago...
  84. Origins? by bigsimes · · Score: 1

    How come SPAM(R) vs spam? How did the use originate, and who was the first to use it to classify junk email? I've seen the comments about nobody wanting neither SPAM(R) or spam, but where did it come from? What could we call junk emails from Hormel if they started mass uce-ing?

  85. this calls for... by FormShaper · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Pink tender morsel
    stuffed inside a little box
    What the hell are you?

    --
    Socket 7 rocks.
  86. They have a point... by Cunk · · Score: 1

    Is it telling that the first thing I thought when I saw the title is "What could a spammer possibly have to trademark?"

    --

    I am the inventor of the hilarious refrigerator alarm.
  87. "...a designation for canned spicy ham.'" by Ralph+Spoilsport · · Score: 1
    SPICY?

    since when is SPAM spicy?

    RS

    --
    Shoes for Industry. Shoes for the Dead.
    1. Re:"...a designation for canned spicy ham.'" by fishbowl · · Score: 1

      Anyone who things SPAM is spicy would die if they ever ate NYC hot dog mustard or authentic Cajun food.
      They would probably die if they even entered the room with West Indies Flambeau sauce.

      --
      -fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
  88. What happened to spam and SPAM. by shumacher · · Score: 1

    As I recall, Hormel was cool about this, simply stating that spam could be Unsolicited Commercial Email, as long as everybody left SPAM alone.

    Hormel would be okay with "anti-spam" software, but not "anti-SPAM".

    What changed? Whatever. Hormel should have acted twelve years ago. I liked them for being cool about the internet use, and for making a product that tastes good grilled with pineapple on kabobs.

    I'd rather call unwanted email advertisements "UCE" anyway.

  89. Re:Well....deep subject by Archfeld · · Score: 1

    VM and MVS on an IBM/GiantFRAME used a virtual WINDOWS product long before Bill Gates stopped sucking his thumb, if he doesn't in fact still do so...

    "I DON't LIKE SPAM...."

    --
    errr....umm...*whooosh* *whoosh* Is this thing on ?
  90. Re:Product name != term for everyday object by everphilski · · Score: 1

    packers > vikings, all I gotta say (bitter rivalry). Win lose or draw...

  91. Re:So, lemme get this straight . . . by aitsu · · Score: 1

    Or a particular type of bad, in this case.

  92. Use it to their advantage by Tablizer · · Score: 1

    They should use the association to their advantage. They could show an ad with a guy typing on his PC. Suddendly the machine beeps loudly. A big red message appears, "Warning: You've Got Spam!" Suddenly he jumps up in the air dancing and singing, "Oh yeah, I've got Spam, oh yeah!" The printer then produces a can of Spam and he grabs it and runs to the kitchen with it in glee.

  93. It wasn't diluted in the U.S... by flieghund · · Score: 1
    ...the U.S. government seized the assets of Bayer, a German company, and resold them to U.S. companies during WWI. From Wikipedia:
    On March 6, 1899 Bayer registered it as a trademark. However, the German company lost the right to use the trademark in many countries as the Allies seized and resold its foreign assets after World War I. The right to use "Aspirin" in the United States (along with all other Bayer trademarks) was purchased from the U.S. government by Sterling Drug in 1918. Even before the patent for the drug expired in 1917, Bayer had been unable to stop competitors from copying the formula and using the name elsewhere, and so, with a flooded market, the public was unable to recognize "Aspirin" as coming from only one manufacturer. Sterling was subsequently unable to prevent "Aspirin" from being ruled a genericized trademark in a U.S. federal court in 1921. Sterling was ultimately acquired by Bayer in 1994, but this did not restore the U.S. trademark. Other countries (such as Canada and many countries in Europe) still consider "Aspirin" a protected trademark.
    --
    "I came here to kick ass and chew bubblegum. I'm all out of bubblegum." MSE USC APX AIA CSI CASp
  94. It's still there. by flieghund · · Score: 1
    From WWW.SPAM.COM itself:
    We do not object to use of this slang term to describe UCE, although we do object to the use of the word "spam" as a trademark and to the use of our product image in association with that term. Also, if the term is to be used, it should be used in all lower-case letters to distinguish it from our trademark SPAM, which should be used with all uppercase letters.
    --
    "I came here to kick ass and chew bubblegum. I'm all out of bubblegum." MSE USC APX AIA CSI CASp
  95. Re:Hey Hormel! Read THIS NOW! by Phroggy · · Score: 1
    --
    $x='S24;r)>63/* h@<5+oZ)32"5cz';$me='phroggy'x$];
    $x=~y+ -xz+\0-Tx+;print$_^chop$me for split'',$x;
  96. Re:Hey Hormel! Read THIS NOW! by eno2001 · · Score: 1

    Pure spin. Trickery, deception and lies. Those numbers can be cooked up any way they want them to. The fact is that all of those cans of Spam product, are purely novelty. I know this for a fact because I myself owned a can of Spam Potted Meat Product back in the early 90s. Why? Certainly NOT to eat it. It was a novelty item purchased as part of a gag gift. And then that gag gift was bestowed upon me by the person who recieved it and didn't want to have anything to do with it. I then put it in my car as a totem. It was ensconced in the area where you would normally have a car stereo and I called it my Potted Meat God that all who enetered must worship before we drive. (Worship was anything from a simple kiss on the spam can, to the placement of any monetary unit in the receptacle below the can) Once I got rid of the car, the can of meat was disposed with it. I've never once met a person who at Spam in their lives. So I suggest that all of these purchases of the supposedly beloved meat product are purely novelty in nature. Anyone stupid enough to eat Spam and claim to like it is no longer safely classified as a civilized human being.

    --
    -"...bad old ideas look confusingly fresh when they are packaged as technology" - Jaron Lanier (Digital Maoism on Edge.o