Virtual Earth 3D Beta Launched

Lord Satri writes "Microsoft has announced the launch of Virtual Earth 3D. There are numerous screenshots to be seen, as well as a Google Earth comparison from Spatially Adjusted. You can read the Google Earth Blog on why he thinks it's not a threat to Google. C|Net's coverage and the official press release provide lots of concrete details of the product. You can also read more from the development side or see the CBS report on Virtual Earth 3D. My main gripe: Windows and Internet Explorer 6/7 only. From the official press release: 'When people visit Live Search, type a query into the search box and click the "Maps" tab, they get their search results in a map context that offers the option to explore the area using two-dimensional views (aerial and bird's-eye) or three dimensional models with Virtual Earth 3D. This new technology compiles photographic images of cities and terrain to generate textured, photorealistic 3-D models with engineering level accuracy.'"

Comments

Not a threat, but VERY cool

[Salvance]

Every once in a while, Microsoft does something right ... or at least releases something cool. When I plugged in my address (which is kind of in the middle of nowhere), up popped 3 different viewing angles of my house. Pretty detailed shots too, and in one you could even see me mowing the lawn in the backyard! I had lots of fun with this one.

Re:Not a threat, but VERY cool

[Da Fokka]

Pretty detailed shots too, and in one you could even see me mowing the lawn in the backyard!

p.And this doesn't even concern you a little bit?

Re:Not a threat, but VERY cool

[jdray]

There was a news story about it last night (can't remember the source). Anyhow, on the studio's gazillion-inch plasma display, it looked pretty cool.

Re:Not a threat, but VERY cool

[Threni]

> p.And this doesn't even concern you a little bit?

I'm sure the picture shows him safely wearing his tin-foil hat, so, temporarily at least, the forces of evil can't access his plans for world domination...

Re:Not a threat, but VERY cool

[PrayingWolf]

Every once in a while, Microsoft does something right ... or at least releases something cool.

I think you meant to say: "Every once in a while Micro$oft copies someone else's idea and tries to get all the credit".
This plagiarism seems to be the only form of R/D M$ does - and it makes me sick!

Re:Not a threat, but VERY cool

[omicronish]

Every once in a while, Microsoft does something right ... or at least releases something cool. When I plugged in my address (which is kind of in the middle of nowhere), up popped 3 different viewing angles of my house. Pretty detailed shots too, and in one you could even see me mowing the lawn in the backyard! I had lots of fun with this one.

Actually, I think it is a threat. I use Live Local/Virtual Earth almost exclusively. Here's why (adapted from a post I wrote in a previous story that didn't get much attention):

• Live Local has better controls. It was the first to add mouse wheel scroll zooming, which Google Maps has added. (I don't mind the copying, though; the more the merrier!) I can't live without the middle-click, box zooming, though. From a globe view I can zoom to my house in a few seconds with Live Local's box zooming.
• Directions between arbitrary points: Right-click anywhere to select the From and To points to find directions. Google Maps requires that I type in addresses. Problem is that I don't know the address of Paradise point at Mt. Rainier National Park, and Google Maps can't seem to find it. Note that Yahoo Maps expands upon this by letting you add waypoints, but it's too slow for me.
• Bird's Eye view. Images are taken from an airplane, so detail is awesome.
• I can perform up to 3 simultaneous map searches. This means I can see the locations of all Safeways, libraries, and CompUSAs on the same map. Useful if you intend on going to multiple places when driving.
• Live Local's direction finding seems more capable than Google's. I can find directions from Glasgow, UK to Palermo, Italy.
• Live Local has better sharing features. You can create collections of places and share them on Live Local. This might be a silly example, but some friends visited Seattle recently and wanted suggestions on places to visit. I made a collection of places for them. You can add text, images, and URLs to places on a collection, and viewers of a collection can generate driving directions between any of its places (as well as any other arbitrary point). Google has auto-saving of locations (which was added after Live Local's collections), but as far as I can tell, it does not permit sharing or customization of locations.
• UI is more customizable. Live Local's panels are removable, yielding more visible map area than Google Maps. You can't turn off the "example searches" pane in Google.

Of course it has downsides:

• Performance is worse than Google Maps. On my 1.7 GHz 512 MB RAM laptop, Live Local causes the fan to spin up far more often than Google Maps.
• Color scheme is uglier in some places (compare Tokyo road view in both Google and Live).
• Google Maps' satellite view is considerably more detailed and updated in some places, including Shanghai, Pyongyang, Ho Chi Minh City. MS appears to be countering this with Bird's Eye view, but the two are just not the same.
• I'm not sure all its features are supported in Firefox 1.5 and below; can someone confirm? But it does work in Firefox 2.0.

If you're interested in looking at satellite imagery, Google is the better choice. But if you want to find places and get directions to them, and share those places with people, I believe Live is far better.

Re:Not a threat, but VERY cool

[Instine]

This is NOT very cool.
Its google earth (which was cool, until everyone realized its no more use than google maps). On a web page. BUT as you have to download a whole heap of crap, that makes it no better than an activeX wrapper, for the Google earth API.
But what really f'ed me off is that it changed my home page to windows live!!!! Grrrr.

Re:Not a threat, but VERY cool

[admdrew]

But what really f'ed me off is that it changed my home page to windows live!!!! Grrrr.

Did you not read the option to change your home page during the installation? Sure, it defaulted to true, but it was pretty easy to spot and uncheck.

Re:Not a threat, but VERY cool

[DerekLyons]

Every once in a while, Microsoft does something right ... or at least releases something cool. When I plugged in my address (which is kind of in the middle of nowhere), up popped 3 different viewing angles of my house. Pretty detailed shots too, and in one you could even see me mowing the lawn in the backyard! I had lots of fun with this one.

Well, when I plugged in my adress; The location it put the pushpin is two houses down and across the street (Google's is precisely in the middle of my porch), and the imagery is the same 8+ year old images of my area that Terraserver has. (OTOH, Google's imagery is about 4+ years old.)

Re:Not a threat, but VERY cool

[RupW]

Directions between arbitrary points: Right-click anywhere to select the From and To points to find directions. Google Maps requires that I type in addresses. Problem is that I don't know the address of Paradise point at Mt. Rainier National Park, and Google Maps can't seem to find it.

No, Google Maps can also do to-and-from using lat/long coordinates. Sure, there's no easy way to read coordinates out of the interface - AFAICR the best you can do is centre the map on your point and then read them from the 'link to this map' URL - but it's not insurmountable.

Re:Not a threat, but VERY cool

[Andrewkov]

And you just told Microsoft your address.. I hope they're not logging searches and IP addresses like AOL did.

Re:Not a threat, but VERY cool

[From A Far Away Land]

I'd have a feeling that he'd settle for grass domination, if he's still mowing a lawn instead of weeding a yard-garden instead.

Re:Not a threat, but VERY cool

[DoomfrogBW]

The 3D Imagery was provided by Harris Corporation in Melbourne, FL and can be up to 1 year old.

Re:Not a threat, but VERY cool

[elgatozorbas]

Color scheme is uglier in some places (compare Tokyo road view in both Google and Live).

This is /. Around here we don't care about ugly colourschemes.

Re:Not a threat, but VERY cool

[Kuciwalker]

Google Earth wasn't developed at Google, either. They bought the company that developed it.

Re:Not a threat, but VERY cool

[sgt scrub]

I think you meant to say: "Every once in a while Micro$oft copies someone else's idea and tries to get all the credit".
This plagiarism seems to be the only form of R/D M$ does - and it makes me sick!

I'm looking for the word Google. Was it mis-spelled?

Re:Not a threat, but VERY cool

[Ankur Dave]

Switchboard.com does the same thing...it's not very hard to find someone's address/phone number given their name and city.
Besides, what would MS do with your address? Snail-mail-spam you?

Re:Not a threat, but VERY cool

[Anonymous Coward]

I find Windows Live Local search to just be smarter than Google Maps.

Google Maps has no idea about neighborhoods. Search for "West Seattle", "Chinatown" or "North End". It also isn't particularly good at landmarks. Try searching for Mt Rainier or Mt Rushmore. Google Maps can't find any of them. Live Local does exactly what you'd expect it to. It can find West Seattle as expected, Chinatown pops up a div dialog asking which Chinatown you're looking for, North End asks Boston or Springfield. Mt Rainier it finds. Mt Rushmore it finds. Hell, it even corrects Mt Rushmoor.

This is the big seller for me. Hotels near Mt Rainier and Pizza in West Seattle are much more useful than needing to search for hotels in each town around Mt Rainier national park, or filtering out all the pizza joints in the rest of Seattle.

Also, Live Local found more pizza places in West Seattle than Google Maps did in all of Seattle. Granted, Microsoft is a Seattle-local company so maybe the data is better here, but I've just found it to be a superior experience.

Live Local also has data overlays - most importantly up-to-date traffic data. I can put thumbtacks on the map and share that list with people. Check out preview.local.live.com to see what the direction they're moving in is.

Google is still a better general use search than Windows Live is, but Live Local is the superior regional search.

Re:Not a threat, but VERY cool

[maartynp]

As I recall, MS's terraserver was the first freely accessible product many years ago followed by mapquest's "aerial views" (subsequently bought by MSN) then dropped from MSN (the aerial views part) Then Google came along and improved what those had had. Now MS has gone ahead by improving what either one of these has had --for now. So quit all this cry of "copying, copying, blah, blah, balh; my guy (gal) was first and thus better". The college team attitude is best left for college/uni students.

Re:Not a threat, but VERY cool

[JourneyExpertApe]

I can perform up to 3 simultaneous map searches. This means I can see the locations of all Safeways, libraries, and CompUSAs on the same map [live.com]. Useful if you intend on going to multiple places when driving.

And if you happen to have continuous broadband internet access while driving.

Re:Not a threat, but VERY cool

[Don_dumb]

It couldn't possibly be too much info ON wrongdoing,

no, no, silly idea.

Windows only

[pubjames]

I tried to test this but it is for IE explorer only. So Google wins by default.

Re:Windows only

[dave420]

... for the 20% non-Windows, non-IE users out there, sure.

Re:Windows only

[99BottlesOfBeerInMyF]

... for the 20% non-Windows, non-IE users out there, sure.

And for more than that. Half the time when I'm looking at something like this, I am doing so to send it to someone else or at least want the option of so doing. If there is a 20% failure rate every time I do that, well that is a significant problem, regardless of which browser I use.

Re:Windows only

[pubjames]

... for the 20% non-Windows, non-IE users out there, sure.

That happens to include a lot of the tech elite...

Re:Windows only

[molarmass192]

Wow, that's so 2005, IE now has under 75% market share and falling. MSIE market share is even lower in Europe.

Re:Windows only

[Ucklak]

80-90% of those users won't know or even care about this application as the search criteria and counterintuitive UI is difficult to use.

If MySpace uses it then it's a go.

Re:Windows only

[finkployd]

That number is also growing, not declining.

Finkployd

Re:Windows only

[Com2Kid]

Also is requires an ActiveX control that itself requires admin privileges to install.

Re:Windows only

[aclarke]

Yeah, but we're the TOP 20%. And we won't let you forget that :-)

Re:Windows only

[Dahamma]

I tried to test this but it is for IE explorer only. So Google wins by default.

I tried to install it on XP with IE and just get the error "Could not access network location %APPDATA%" - had to cancel the installation. I'm not even sure it's meant for IE ;)

Re:Windows only

[dave420]

And you're in the minority. Most of those 80% of win/IE users don't know of or want to send stuff like this to non-win/IE users, so again, it's rather a moot point for the vast, vast majority of users. I was just pointing out that the OP's message sounded like he was in the majority, when he isn't. Most of the mums and dads out there flying around the place looking at stuff don't give a rats ass it doesn't run on ObscureLinuxDistro 1.0 or even OSX - it works for them, and so is just as accessible as some fantastically cross-platform solution.

Re:Windows only

[Foofoobar]

Well when you are the underdog in a market (like search), doesn't it make more sense to pander to the largest audience possible??? By deliberately ignoring a 20% of the market, they are causing those people to default to Google leaving them to fight over the remaining 80% with the dominant search company who is going to get that remaining 20% because they CAN! First rule of business in any market is reach the largest audience possible and when there is already a dominant company in the market, to be able to do something better. This is neither better nor does it reach the largest audience possible. Microsoft just shot itself in the foot being a bit too arrogant again.

Re:Windows only

[99BottlesOfBeerInMyF]

And you're in the minority.

Perhaps, perhaps not, depending upon who this is targeting. You can't assume that because 80% of people use Windows and IE that 80% of the people that would use a given Web service will use Windows and IE. It may be more and it may be less. The interoperability is a consideration, because maps are often used collaboratively. This is not as bad as e-mail that fails for 20% of the population, but it is worse than something like an online recipe site that works for 80% of the population.

Most of the mums and dads out there flying around the place looking at stuff don't give a rats ass it doesn't run on ObscureLinuxDistro 1.0 or even OSX - it works for them, and so is just as accessible as some fantastically cross-platform solution.

True, but they do care when they e-mail their grandchild a link to a 3D map showing where the condo they rented in Florida is, and that precious grandchild says the site is broken and won't work for them and to use Google instead. My point is that because it is a use that lends itself to collaboration, it is hit harder by a built in 20% failure rate, than less collaborative uses. This is especially a problem when there is a direct competitor that does not have the same problem and has as much or more brand recognition.

Re:Windows only

[Columcille]

In order to do 3d viewing with Google you must install their specialized program: Google Earth. In order to do 3d viewing you must install their specialized program: IE with their 3d viewing add-on. How are these things different? People just like to gripe about IE, but this isn't any different than what you have to do to view 3d with google.

Linux Support?

[timeOday]

I run Google Earth under Linux. Will this new offering provide an alternative? (Let me guess - NO WAY!)

Re:Linux Support?

[Jugalator]

Hehe, well, according to some reports here and elsewhere, it barely even runs on IE. ;-)

Me me me!

[xtracto]

I want to try it, can someone post the direct link for the Linux client?

Or the torrent!

Self

[Cybert4]

SELF. Nothing else matters. Period.

Please explain why Microsoft is threatened?

[green pizza]

Why does Microsoft feel theatened by certain markets? I don't understand why they feel they have to compete with everything, even "markets" where there is little or no money to be made. How much money could Microsoft ever make from Virtual Earth? Why does Microsoft feel it has to compete in the games and music world when it is already making huge amounts of money selling software to 90 - 95% of the computer world?

Re:Please explain why Microsoft is threatened?

[timeOday]

Bill Gates (and by extension I suspect much of Microsoft) is very worred about missing the "next big thing" and being left in the dust. The history is that IBM gravely under estimated the PC revolution and handed it over to Microsoft, so Microsoft doesn't want to get shafted like they did to IBM. I agree this particular application doesn't seem very important, but Microsoft may be concerned in general about losing ground as an applications service provider. Apparently this new thing is based on ActiveX so personally I hope it is an utter failure.

Re:Please explain why Microsoft is threatened?

[shdowhawk]

There is a simple answer to your question...

When playing monopoly, are you content on owning half of the board when playing against 4 others? What if you never owned 3 of any of the pieces on the board, so you were never able to built those crazy hotels... would you be content then?

Microsoft IS in fact being threatened. As you yourself said, they are a software company. Google, is a software company. Microsoft made itself known by creating a fantastic piece of business software (hate to admit that.. bleh) called Office. This Program made everyone want their OWN software. You could now do your OWN taxes at home (assuming you knew how). You could write your own papers efficiently, or make a pretty slide show easily. People bought PERSONAL computers to do that. Google on the other hand took the complete opposite route on this. They represent the internet. The collective of information from EVERYONE. In a future where everything is being based on multi-tasking and the ability to do many things at once (cellphone / pda / mp3 players combo's anyone?) Google is leading the way. Need to learn something new? Google it. Want to download something new and exciting? Google it. Most importantly... who can use google? Everyone... which means less market share for microsoft.

My point is this. Microsoft is the toy you got when you were 5. It taught you a lot of things, and you had fun with it. But eventually, something new and more exciting came out. Microsoft is doing what it can, even if it doesn't make too much profit on it (if any) ... to keep itself as a household name. To keep people buying Microsoft because they know the name AND it has a bunch of "features"... even if they aren't as good, or as useable by everyone else.

Re:Please explain why Microsoft is threatened?

[Lacrymator]

TA mentioned Google (Google Earth) as the "threatened" app. Microsoft doesn't "feel" anything, especially not threatened. In hopes of enlightening you as to why the conquest-like mentality the corporation seems to take, well, that's MS. I get agitated from time to time with their products, yep but why is everyone so ready to get the torches and pitchforks?? I, for one, am not. Perhaps if Microsoft festers/ferments just a little more..... Nah, light the torches!

Re:Please explain why Microsoft is threatened?

[ScentCone]

Why does Microsoft feel theatened by certain markets? I don't understand why they feel they have to compete with everything, even "markets" where there is little or no money to be made. How much money could Microsoft ever make from Virtual Earth? Why does Microsoft feel it has to compete in the games and music world when it is already making huge amounts of money selling software to 90 - 95% of the computer world?

I don't know... why did Google feel the need to compete with AltaVista? Why did they start doing targeted ads when other companies already were? Why is Google making word processing, or paint software? More choices in the market is always a good thing. And information about where in the physical world things are, how to get to them, what they look like, and what's next door to them... there's a much bigger market for that out there than is going to be well handled by only one company (Google).

Re:Please explain why Microsoft is threatened?

[Procyon101]

But they are losing their cash cows to do it!

They were the ONLY game in town in the desktop and laptop market. Now Apple has a huge chunk, and Linux desktop use is growing and becoming more competitive. They have been left behind by install and update technologies. They are now having to resort to strong-arm tactics to bill their casual-use users at every opportunity which is only pissing off their remaining customer base. This weekend I was asked by a medium sized business owner to "show him these Linux and Apple things" because he just had to spend tens of thousands of dollars because his network pulled down a patch from widows update and decided to shut itself down voluntarally... twice. Granted, he wasn't the most licensing concious guy around, but there is a customer that spends a very large amount of money on MS products that is likely to go elsewhere very soon.

Microsoft could have EASILY maintained their lead, by focusing on their core business... Hell, they could have CREATED the "next big thing" as a side effect to good product innovation. As they are, they are rapidly becoming the defacto "me-too" second rate clone of every product out there... if they keep it up they will be regarded in the same category as cheap thai knockoffs.

They have some good tech... why they don't run with it is so beyond me
WinCE, NT core, SQL Server, Office, WPF, WinFS, IE... these are great technologies, but they are understaffed and horribly mismanaged and if MS doesn't get back on the ball, they will be lose them to competition and will have nothing... not because they missed the next best thing, but because they refused to compete in their own core markets.

Re:Please explain why Microsoft is threatened?

[cheater512]

But by trying not to miss the next big thing they are infact shafting themselves.

Navigation

[Hijacked Public]

After playing around with this this morning I can't quite get the hang of the grab and drag navigation. In photo mode (or bird's eye view I guess) it appears to limit the grab and drag range to the actual photo loaded into the frame, and the only way to move outside that is to load another photo by clicking in some kind of grid containing too-small-for-clarity thumbnails.

Maybe I'm wrong and didn't spend enough time with it, but that is a huge handicap, better photos or not. With Google Earth I can grab and drag to wherever. Half of what I want to find isn't tied to an address, it is much easier to find by following landmarks.

Re:Navigation

[wan-fu]

The new thing isn't the bird's eye view, but the 3D view. The bird's eye view has been around for quite some time and has always had this limitation. This is because the ability to stitch the photographs taken from the airplane seamlessly together still isn't there yet. The airplane is not shooting exactly perpendicular to the surface of the earth. Imagine a bunch of roof shingles which are the photos and now try making it seamless.

The new 3D thing is different from this and is more similar to Google Earth.

Reminds me of...

[cliffiecee]

Canoma from the long-defunct Metacreations. You load up a picture, place some 3d primitives, and line the primitives up so that they match what's in the picture. It was pretty easy to do, and produced decent results- if you only viewed the sides of the object that were actually photographed. Kudos to the MS programmers for coming up with a quick, "cheap" way to add textures to buildings.

Re:Reminds me of...

[saltydogdesign]

It's called photogrammetry, and Microsoft did not come up with it, though they will no doubt be filing all sorts of horseshit patents pretty soon. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photogrammetry

Re:Lost customer thread

[dawhippersnapper]

I installed the plugin for IE and it crashes my browser every time I visit their website. It's at local.live.com and virtualearth.com

Some parts cool, others not

[Jugalator]

I see Virtual Earth as an application that excels in a select few areas, but in general has much less to offer.

For example, it has nifty texture mapped buildings for a number of places, but what about the majority? Conversely, Google Earth covers a large part of Earth in quite good detail, but Virtual Earth not even my capital city. Additionally, GE has a large community behind it now, and the layer features provides an extensibility that could be compared to the extensions in Firefox.

Re:Some parts cool, others not

[bmwm3nut]

I forgot about the layering that the GE community can provide. Want to bet how long it will be until someone makes a layer in GE that reads the virtual earth data and redisplays it? I'm not sure how the layers in GE work, but I bet someone just needs to have a server the GE queries and then an automated ActiveX control that will grab the virtual earth data and send it back to GE.

Re:Some parts cool, others not

[cheater512]

I was thinking about this myself. Just have a online translator which recieves a request, queries the MS servers, converts the data format and you've got textured buildings on Google Earth.

No need for a automated ActiveX control.

Oh great!

[jeddak]

...another tool to help the terrorists!

Re:Oh great!

[jeddak]

That was meant to be facetious. Oh well.

I can't get it to work

[revlayle]

tried it on an 32 bit XP system (SP2), under IE6, I downloaded and installed the App/ActiveX control and set local.live.com to be a Trusted Site... and still IT NO GO

Re:I can't get it to work

[recharged95]

Same here, IE6, installed setup.exe and then it asks to save VirtualEarth3D.msi--can't execute this file. I have DX9, 3.2 Dual CPUs, NvFX4400, blah, blah. This sucks.

Re:I can't get it to work

[revlayle]

I can execute the file... in fact, I have installed the damn thing three times in a row. it may be my user privleges (it's a work computer)

Re: Mac Support?

[vertinox]

I suspect unless I boot into WinXP I won't have this on OS X native either?

Accuracy levels

[PhotoGuy]

"Engineering level accuracy?" What kind of vague marketing speak crap is that? To the millimeter? To the cm? To the meter? (If I hired an engineer to do a building, I'd probably want accuracy to the inch. Does it do that?)

Can someone please put this in terms of "Libraries of Congress" or "Volkswagens" so I have some sense of perspective??? Help!

Re:Accuracy levels

[kegon]

> If I hired an engineer to do a building, I'd probably want accuracy to the inch.
The nearest inch ?

Where are you, Liberia ?
Inches are so 1790s (I read my own link you know).

Seriously though, one inch is nowhere near the accuracy you need to "do a building" as you quaintly put it.

Sorry, I'm too lazy to think of a humourous response to the sense of perspective thing.

Re:Accuracy levels

[cheater512]

Engineers will be wanting to the millimeter not to the nearest inch.

You lucky ones...

[robcfg]

After going through a huge number of windows it turns on that it cannot be installed in a spanish XP. So we'll have to wait (as usual) to try it. I hate this things... :(

Makes me wonder...

[hullabalucination]

...how often Google Maps/Earth updates their satellite photos. When I zoom in on my place, I can see the house next door that was demolished 3+ years ago. The sad part: I like that house better than mine.

* * * * *

What happens if a big asteroid hits Earth? Judging from realistic simulations involving a sledge hammer and a common laboratory frog, we can assume it will be pretty bad.
--Dave Barry

Re:Makes me wonder...

[xtracto]

Well that is not all, not so long ago I was planning a trip to Birmingham and while looking for the bullring I was amazed to see that it had been destroyed..

Fortunately for me, it seems the pictures at google were wrong, as when I arrived I could get into the place withour problems.

Re:Makes me wonder...

[HTH NE1]

Makes me wonder... ...how often Google Maps/Earth updates their satellite photos.

Around here, new satellite photos aren't taken until the city decides they want to rework the roads for an area. My workplace was a developed lot without any construction until they proposed redoing some intersections. The whole city got new images taken then. The surrounding countryside (farming) is still low-res.

Re:Makes me wonder...

[deserttrail]

Even better: in Microsoft's Virtual Earth, the photos of my area are literally TEN YEARS OLD!!! And you can't claim that because I live in a small town there's no updated photos available because Google's photos were taken in the last 6 months! I think Microsoft needs to find a new source.

Re:Makes me wonder...

[epee1221]

How often does it update?
It says I'm at Michigan College of Mines. I'm leaning towards "not often enough."

Linux Version.

[headkase]

From the amount of groaning for a Linux version, whats stopping the development of a plugin-interface that is the same across browsers? Publish an RFC or get ECMA certification then get everyone to use it to the point that only Microsoft is not. Then make Microsoft use it. Replace ActiveX, Java, and Media Player proprietary interfaces with a standard plugin-interface that works for everything - leveling the playfield. Make the render engine a plugin too.
Rehashing some ideas that are floating around out there but still, why can't it be done?

Re:Linux Version.

[headkase]

You could do it if all browsers were designed to provide a BIOS api like PC's. Plugin's could request an area of the page to render to and be informed of input events within the area as well. The implementation of areas could allow for cross-plugin functionality as well - the svg plugin and the truetype plugin can be used within the flash plugin as the flash plugin requests their output and gets the browser BIOS to do the low level work of combining the output bitmaps into the controlling plugins graphic area; combining is encapsulated behind the BIOS api so the plugins can be high-level and therefore cross-platform. What I'm thinking is that the "BIOS" of a browser contain an api much like SDL - a lowest common denominator virtual graphics area. And you can do a lot with SDL. So provide all the SDL primitives as "BrowserBIOS 1.0". Other plugins could then register themselves as primitives like an SVG plugin. Then another plugin such as a flash player could see if the SVG plugin was installed and if so use it's renderSVG method as just another primitive within the flash area.
In five years computers should be capable enough to program Microsoft Earth in a scripting language and with the response times of today. A platform neutral language that is interpreted not executed (as ActiveX controls are) would be more desirable as binary execution across architectures would obviously fail. Computers keep getting faster so we can keep going higher and higher in the languages without becoming unresponsive. The only reason to use executable binaries is for speed purposes and if absolutely neccesary "fat" binaries like the OS9/X transition on the Mac could be used.

Either...

[eingram]

It seems to be working fine in FX 1.5. So either: 1) I'm on the wrong site or 2) It's only partially working in FX 1.5.

http://local.live.com/ yes?

Re:Either...

[ehaggis]

It will allow you the 2D maps but the 3D features are a fully installed local program which IE calls.

Save yourself some time.

[El_Smack]

Just get the original blueprints from the Magratheans.

sdk

[warrior_s]

From the blog, The SDK is here: http://dev.live.com/virtualearth/sdk/

Seems to be clunky

[ehaggis]

It is not very responsive or quick to load compared to same environment with Google maps.

Opposite

[SuperKendall]

...another tool to help the terrorists!

Actually it's just the opposite - they'll spend a few years going through Active X installations and the configuration screens and it will keep them out of our hair.

Re:Opposite

[LoverOfJoy]

Or Osama will release an audio tape stating he loves this new product and even was able to find an image of himself mowing his lawn. Government agencies around the world will spend a few years going through Active X installations and configuration screens before they even start their "Where's Waldo" hunt giving bin Laden plenty of time to plan his next attack.

Great idea!

[bcmm]

This new technology compiles photographic images of cities and terrain to generate textured, photorealistic 3-D models with engineering level accuracy.

I've been waiting AGES for something like this! Thank you Microsoft, for leading the way with new and innovative technology, yet again.

Re:Great idea!

[Dopefish128]

I've been waiting AGES for something like this!

Is the loading time really that bad?

Well said.

[Kadin2048]

The history is that IBM gravely under estimated the PC revolution and handed it over to Microsoft, so Microsoft doesn't want to get shafted like they did to IBM.

I think this is the best one-sentence summary of the thought process that seems to underlie Microsoft's business, consciously or not, all the time.

They're like the king who came to power by poisoning his predecessor, forever worrying whether they'll fall the same way.

why?

[Yahweh Doesn't Exist]

so they're copying google 100% except that their version won't work on my mac.

oh my god, it hurts to think of all the wasted energy in reproducing something badly.

Re:why?

[TheNetAvenger]

copying google 100%

I hope people are getting the difference, beyond your humor. Because if people don't get it, we won't ever see Google catch up to what MS is dong.

MS's version actually models the building in a city in 3D, so you can virtually walk or fly around the city and see the building in 3D space.

MS also does a better job at matching the elevation maps with mountains and other non-flat aspects in all areas. So for example the mountains are properly elevated and to scale, where Google tends to leave a lot of data of elevation missing or the mountains are not elevated in the right proportion or detail.

Google does NOT do this yet... (And I hope this is a yet).

What MS doesn't do as well is the LOD of the image quality levels, Google is a slower in pulling up detail, but does a better job of the distance images melding with the closer images.

I have noticed that both have advantages depending on the area of the world for detail levels. Some areas like Nevada and Iowa, MS has better detail, and in some areas of Europe Google has much better detail.

Oh and MS needs to offer a non-browser version of this technology or at least be planning for a WPF/E version so non Windows Users can utilize the technology. I would assume they are, but who knows. MS does have an advantage because of their SDK for web developers allows other sites to use the new technology on their web sites. Again, a WPF/E version would make this available to all browsers and platforms.

Re:why?

[cheater512]

If Google doesnt have 3d textured buildings in their labs I will be very suprised.

They have put the capability in with Google Earth 4 and they certainly have the data and processing power to do it.

Hangs your Browser

[ehaggis]

IE 6 hangs with the plug-in on exit. Can't really see the "3D" features compared to Google earth buildings.

Canada, eh?

[PhotoGuy]

Just gave it a try. IE only, active X install (versus AJAX that google uses; wait, didn't MS start all the XMLHTTP stuff themselves?), which were annoying, but in the end, the quality of the satellite views for Nova Scotia (where I live) are an order of magnitude poorer than Google Earth.

So, IE Only, Poor Canada support. I'll pass for now.

Re:Canada, eh?

[Petrushka]

Ditto for New Zealand, where the satellite maps on Google Maps/Earth are excellent, those on Virtual Earth farcically bad. To be fair, Virtual Earth has much better road-maps.

Oh, and here's a fun thing in Virtual Earth: the world has edges. If you start at the New Zealand mainland and try to scroll eastward to the Chatham Islands ... you can't. The world stops at about 180 degrees east (I'm not sure if it is exactly 180 degrees, as I can't find a way of checking longitude and latitude, which is a bit crap): there is no more planet Earth beyond that point. Not even a sign saying "Here be dragons".

Other fun things: when I click on the "kilometres" button to change to metric, the scale stays in miles. When I set a marker in aerial or hybrid view and ask to "zoom to street level", I routinely get the "no satellite shots at this scale" logo and nothing else -- they don't think to check first? How short-sighted is that?

Confusing just as any other Microsoft product

[Ucklak]

I like to give them a chance but this will be used as a toy then discarded. local.live.com and it's horrible 2 condition search criteria makes it unusable.

Wow. Microsoft is following google what's next?

[kinglink]

Microsoft following Apple?

Wow...Not really

[York the Mysterious]

I'm really impressed by 6 year old blurry black and white photos where Google gives me fairly recent photos at about 3X the resolution in color. I live in the cuts, but it's not that bad. Arcata, CA

Re:Is it just me...

[Megane]

Also, the way it actually displays makes it too fickle to be useful. For example, one time I was trying to use it to create a map which would than be printed out. But I had to fight the map settings, and then the way it handles the sites and comments was too unpredictable. I got the map printed out in a way that was close to what I wanted, but it took far longer than I wanted it too, and IMO it looked like garbage.

And the reason you didn't just do a bunch of screen shots and stitch them together in some kind of paint-o-shop program is...?

Re:Well said, but wrong.

[El_Smack]

IBM didn't get shafted, and MS didn't poison the King to become King. IBM did make a grave business error of not recognizing the direction of the market and collapsed. MS correctly predicted the future, and did well. MS doesn't want to make the same mistake IBM did, so it competes everywhere.

google wins on detail in Berlin

[localoptimum]

Compare microsoft's map with that of google, centred on the Brandenburg gate, and you see that Microsoft are lagging slightly behind google in resolution. As I remember, the google launch had full resolution on Berlin from the start.

World wind

[plopez]

I like this one too.

http://worldwind.arc.nasa.gov/

Impressive stuff!

[levy]

For a long time I have tried to tell Microsoft that I don't want to be a norwegian when I have to visit some of their pages. I like my system in English - but! "Virtual Earth 3D (Beta) currently does not support your region or language. Thanks for your patience. Regarding patience.. I was able to touch 9Kb/s download rate while trying to install/download the component needed for 3D. Microsoft downloads just takes sooo much time. Net-Installing Debian from a US server is done with 1,5Mbyte per second, haha!

By the way, I think I found a hidden feature! If you zoom in too close this fantastic service delivers a very cool image of a grey page filled with "camera forbidden" signs.

Advertising Embedded in the Application

[aykroyd]

Wow. I was looking around Los Angeles, wanting to see what Santa Monica looked like when I came across this ad blatantly hanging in the air. Incredible. That's reason alone to stick with Google Earth.

NOT IE only

[saleenS281]

I'm using firefox 2.0 here, it works just fine.

Re:FUCK YOU

[Dunbal]

Virtual 3D (Beta) currently does not support your region or language. Thanks for your patience

      Our server has detected that you IP is also associated with someone on the US terrorist "No Fly" list, and as such you are prohibited from reviewing aerial photography. We have also detected an unauthorized browser. We have also detected that you are not wearing pants. All this, combined with the fact that you live in a country where they speak a foreign language, means that you are not worthy to view this site. The authorities have been notified. Thank you for your patience.

Re:Lost customer thread

[CrazyTalk]

The fact that stuff like this comes out that requires Windows and IE is why I still run Windows and IE.

Re:Doesn't Work with Firefox

[deesine]

One less app, err a website I wont be using.

3D view IS IE only.

[mdobossy]

Try clicking on the 3D view. The 3D view requires IE 6/7.

Flight Simulator integration

[DigiShaman]

Why hasn't this been integrated into Microsoft's Flight Sim yet? You don't need to install 15GB worth of data, and the maps are always updated. Better graphics too I might add.

well at first read this seems like an innovation

[asleep79]

but as usual microsoft is just piggy backing on someone else's invention as if to say "look ... me too!" like a child immitating a dance step the 3D model would be revolutionary in mapping, especially via a web browser ... but if you actually use the "application" you'll quickly see that it is not infact 3D sure you don't have only an overhead view but I can get angled still-shots of downtown buildings from most city websites. now i can access still shots on Microsoft? ... that's not innovation or even a feature that adds to the application's utility in my opinion. it's just an advertising ploy to make people who aren't paying attention think that Microsoft actually did something new for once way to go Microsoft marketing department ... pat yourselves on the back for another cleverly colored pile of crap produced by your programming department

Engineering-Level Accuracy!

[Jekler]

I looked it up in the dictionary but there wasn't a definition of just how accurate that is. I was told to achieve engineering-level accuracy, you really need to eyeball it, because that kind of accuracy is only a stone's throw away from being damn fine precision.

Re:Lost customer thread

[Thusi02]

Now really, this was my morning joke. Is Microsoft trying to tap into google's world now? They come no where "close" to how Google maps is. I looked at their 3D, in what way is a bunch of blurry images 3-D view of buildings and houses. I think Microsoft should take this product down. Another rant that I have is http://live.com/ :| hmmm "can you say Google wannabe?". I thought this was rather amusing. Thanks for making my day. Cheers, Thusjanthan Kubendranathan

Another bug rittled mess from Microsoft

[GlsHlfMPT]

Let's see, it installed two activeX controls; and changed my IE preferences to point to live.com. And locked it so that I can't change it back, tools->options is greyed out.

Surfing the map hung my browser 3 times. Best of all there is no uninstall for those controls. Forced me to finally install firefox 2.0.

Thanks MS!

"Best Quality" = BSOD

[sachu]

As soon as I installed it and selected the initial setting to use "Best Quality", I got BSOD on my ThinkPad T41!!!

out of U.S.A, Google wins

[mennucc1]

I guess that most people praising Virtual Earth (VE from here on) did not try it on spots outside the U.S.A. (Disclaimer: I run Firefox on Linux,so I did not test the new 3D VE services. ) I tried comparing the 2d services: open both maps.google.com and virtual earth , set them to hybrid, and zoom into "Paris, France" for example; click here (google) and (VE). Google lets you zoom all way down, you can see people walking on streets (that picture of Hotel de Ville is gorgeous!); with VE, building are smeared out at a 1mile=2inch scale, and then you cannot zoom further. The same is true for "rome, italy". Instead , in Tokio, you can zoom to smallest detail in VE: but still, Google zooms about 4x more than VE (you judge by (google) and (VE)).

Re:Lost customer thread

[Hatta]

The fact that stuff like this comes out that requires Windows and IE is why I still run Windows and IE.

The fact that you still run Windows and IE is why stuff like this comes out that requires Windows and IE.

did what?

[Main Gauche]

"But what really f'ed me off is that it changed my home page to windows live!!!!"

Well, the way you put it, it actually sounded kind of fun.

Does it have KML?

[thanasakis]

To me, KML is the single most insightful feature Google Earth has.

I can share the KMLs with my friends, script programs that produce KMLs on the fly, backup my placemarks, post KMLs on forums, I can even display KML on Google Maps.

Until this Virtual Earth thing supports KML (and no, an alternative binary closed typical M$ format will NOT do), it's useless beyond 5 minutes of eye candy happiness.

Microsoft isn't the only guilty party...

[Vr6dub]

This "opt-out" strategy is not unique to Microsoft. Our holier than thou Google does the same thing with their toolbar. Adobe does it with their reader software and !GASP! until recently Apple tried the same thing by making it rather difficult to find their Quicktime standalone installer void of iTunes. So to bash Microsoft alone on this is unfair. It annoys me too but I am shocked that any person reading Slashdot just blindly accepts program defaults when installing software.

Re:Microsoft isn't the only guilty party...

[cheater512]

The difference is people WANT Google as their home page. People dont want live.com.

All the desktops under my influence use Google as the home page.

Re:Microsoft isn't the only guilty party...

[Vr6dub]

What makes you the "knower of all people's desires"? I DON'T want Google as my homepage. It's a cheap marketing trick to "get people in the door". It doesn't necesarilly bother me but when I go to my parents house and they've got toolbars out the whazzoo and "opt-out" components all over the place.

Re:Microsoft isn't the only guilty party...

[cheater512]

Still dont you prefer Google as your home page compared to live.com?

Re:Microsoft isn't the only guilty party...

[Vr6dub]

Well....ummm....uhhhh....yeah.

IE only? big whoop!

[mixonic]

I'll bite:

Why are people complaining about IE only? A) What did you expect, and B) Google's offering is a standalone app you need to install, and wasn't available for Linux for a long time. What's with the double standard here, partial browser compatability wins over a standalone installed app in my book. Maybe I'm just suprised at the reactions b/c I'm a Linux user and can't use most Google apps on release already, but this isn't really that suprising.

Come on /. crew, bash it on grounds of something, but being IE only isn't the anti-killer feature here.

Re:IE only? big whoop!

[Ash-Fox]

Google's offering is a standalone app you need to install, and wasn't available for Linux for a long time. What's with the double standard here

Double standard? People complained when there wasn't a Linux version, claiming that Google was being evil and so on.

partial browser compatability wins over a standalone installed app in my book.

That standalone app runs on BSD/Linux/Windows/MacOSX. That 'partial browser compatability' only seems to work under windows with Internet Explorer.

Maybe I'm just suprised at the reactions b/c I'm a Linux user and can't use most Google apps on release already, but this isn't really that suprising.

I'm using Google browser sync, Google earth, Google Picasa (I use Konqueror more for picture management -- others prefer digikam since it apparently has 'more' features). Google desktop is missing obviously, but one can easily replace that with Kerry...

Come on /. crew, bash it on grounds of something, but being IE only isn't the anti-killer feature here.

Seeing how many places and some users have a zero tolerance to using IE, even under Windows.. Yes, it can be a real anti-killer feature.

Short sighted...

[Vr6dub]

Spoken like a person with no vision. It's the same thing that stunted Xerox...granted they're doing fine now even though the missed the boat in the 70's.

Just the other day I overheard some surveyors talking about how great these new technologies could be. Imagine being able to have a mobile electronic 3-d map of the site being surveyed. I think Microsoft is looking forward to a point where all these services are integrated and is treating this as a building block to that goal...a proof of concept if you will. Imagine construction for huge new office park or commercial center. The architects, surveyors, city officials, contructions dudes, etc. could all be updated to changes on the fly using a Windows Live "off the shelf" solution.

This may not be practical at this time and I'm not smart enough to think of the intricicies but to say Microsoft is wasting their time by investing in something that doesn't have a market right now is the type of thinking that hinders true innovation.

Re:Well said, but wrong.

[MagnusDredd]

IBM didn't get shafted...

IBM would probably disagree with that assessment.

I'd personally argue that IBM agreed to let M$ shaft them, but consentual shafting is still shafting.

Live Local in non-IE browsers.

[antdude]

Is it me or did MS remove the non-IE Web browser support in http://local.live.com/ ? It used to work in my Mozilla v1.7.13 when the site was new. Now, I don't get the cool aerial 3D maps anymore unless I use IE6. Or did I miss it?

3D maps are as good as their data

[dinther]

As far as I am concerned they are all pretty cool. I started with Nasa Worldwind which uses the 10 meter elevation map in some area's giving superb landscape relief. Google Earth has better aerial imagery for the area I live while Virtual Earth does some cool stuff with better 3D buildings but again. In the area I live (New Zealand) the data is shocking and next to useless. I am awaiting the day that Google earth will put in the better 10 meter elevation data and then Google Earth rocks. I agree with an earlier comment about needing a better integration of the 3D warehouse with Google Earth. Google earth is also pretty solid. I run it across 3 XWGA screens resulting in a massive glove smoothly spinning around. Oh about spinning. I really missed that feature in the Microsoft product. In Google Earth you can give the map a push and it keeps moving. Also I don't like the fact that you need to use CTRL and Left mouse button to swing your view around. I prefer that action by the mouse only. Top marks for Google Earth (Great data) Second Nasa Worldwind (Great elevation data but hard to find) Third .... . . . Eight place Virtual Earth 3D. But as a new product not a bad first try. Bloody slow though.

Re:Lost customer thread

[franksands]

It's worse, It's windows XP SP2 only. I have win2k with IE 6 and it refuses to work.

Re:Not W2k compatable

[Ash-Fox]

There are people on those platforms that refuse to use IE entirely, they won't be happy either.

Re:Lost customer thread

[eneville]

It's worse, It's windows XP SP2 only. I have win2k with IE 6 and it refuses to work.

that's your problem right there buddy. forget trying to run architecture specific web apps and your life will be a lot less hassle.

Re:Lost customer thread

[entrylevel]

Whoa.
</keanu>

"Google Earth Blog" not official

[ESqVIP]

I think an important piece of information that is missing in the summary is that the aforementioned Google Earth Blog is not official. As far as I know there's no word yet from Google about Virtual Earth.

Not really a threat, yet.

[streak]

Yes the textured 3D buildings are nice, though Google does have a lot of these in its 3D Warehouse, it just needs some integration.
However, where Microsoft is lacking is the rest.
All the text, road markers, etc.. are rasterized on the images and are not overlaid as vector graphics. Therefore if the detail level of the imagery isn't great, or you are looking at something partially in the distance (so the level of detail is reduced), you cannot read any of the text.
I think in this case, Google is leaps and bounds ahead of Microsoft.
Of course, all of the imagery is just Virtual Earth 2D rendered on a globe, so I'm sure Microsoft will improve the 3D part of this, since I'm sure using the 2D imagery was a very fast way to get some beta out the door that shows off the 3D buildings.

Re:Playing catch-up

[TorAvalon]

And you are positive Google maps was out before Mapblast and TerraServer. At the very least Google maps copied Mapblast and Google Earth copied TerraServer. I recall using both of them before googtle was even born. oh yea, check out the owner of mapblast and the supporter of terraserver.

Re:Well said, but wrong.

[JourneyExpertApe]

IBM did make a grave business error of not recognizing the direction of the market and collapsed. MS correctly predicted the future, and did well. MS doesn't want to make the same mistake IBM did, so it competes everywhere.

OK, there's one more way to say it. Who knows it?

CompUSA is for old people!

[snikulin]

Real geeks use Fry's.
Uber-geeks use HPC.

My gripe

[NubKnacker]

This may not sound like a shortcoming but it annoys me that when I type something into the maps search box and press enter the form doesn't submit, I have to click on the button manually. It's a really small thing but annoying nonetheless.

Re:Lost customer thread

[franksands]

I agree with you completely. I was just trying to what it looked like, you know?

requirements

[zobier]

"Installation of Virtual Earth 3D requires Windows XP Service Pack 2 or greater."

Boo.