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Bugged Canadian Coins?

tundra_man writes "CBC has an article about RFID type devices in Canadian coins found on US Contractors. From the article: 'Canadian coins containing tiny transmitters have mysteriously turned up in the pockets of at least three American contractors who visited Canada, says a branch of the U.S. Department of Defense.' The report did not indicate what kinds of coins were involved."

275 of 354 comments (clear)

  1. Motive??? by lecithin · · Score: 3, Insightful

    For the life of me, I can't figure a reason that somebody would do this. Coins change hands quickly and RFID has a pretty limited range.

    Aside from:

    "Passing the coin to an unwitting contractor, particularly in strife-torn countries, could mark the person for kidnapping or assassination"

    But that doesn't seem practical in this case.

    Anybody make sense of this?

    --
    It could be worse, it could be Monday.
    1. Re:Motive??? by nine-times · · Score: 1

      I can't think that bugging money will track a person for very long. Either you only want to track that person for a very short amount of time, or you're really interested in tracking the money itself.

    2. Re:Motive??? by batquux · · Score: 5, Funny

      Makes ripping off Canadian vending machines just a little bit tougher?

    3. Re:Motive??? by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 1

      For the life of me, I can't figure a reason that somebody would do this. Coins change hands quickly and RFID has a pretty limited range.

      Maybe they suspected the contractors would sneak into a facility that day (spies) and wanted to be able to track them?

      They could also be useful for setting off a weapon as somebody walked by, if you knew where the person was going and wanted deniability.

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
    4. Re:Motive??? by LiquidCoooled · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I also read the article and thought WTF.

      I seriously doubt anyone managed to mung currency and insert a real RFID unit.
      What I do think however is that in a small percentage of coins they resonate at the same frequency as an RFID which would appear as though they were magical.

      If you did infact hollow out a bit of a coin and replace some of the metal with an electronic bug the weight and bounce (striking against a piezo sensor) would cause such a difference any coin mech you inserted it into would reject it.

      --
      liqbase :: faster than paper
    5. Re:Motive??? by inviolet · · Score: 2, Funny
      For the life of me, I can't figure a reason that somebody would do this. Coins change hands quickly and RFID has a pretty limited range.

      ForEx traders have a motive: they can position themselves to make a LOT of money based on small changes in the exchange rates between currencies.

      1. Spend $100 hacking RFID chips into Canadian coins.
      2. Go long on the currency of Canada's neighbors.
      3. Pass the coins around and wait for the headlines to appear.
      4. Profit !!!
      --
      FATMOUSE + YOU = FATMOUSE
    6. Re:Motive??? by mikeabbott420 · · Score: 1

      Somebody running a sociology experiment

      --
      This program was made possible by a grant from the Ultra-Humanite, and viewers like you.
    7. Re:Motive??? by monkeySauce · · Score: 1

      An RFID coin bugging could mean only one thing: invasion!

    8. Re:Motive??? by Malc · · Score: 1

      And you know which is the only country to have successfully invaded the US (and burnt down the capital)?

    9. Re:Motive??? by lawpoop · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The only conclusion that I can come to is that someone is tracking these contractors to figure out who they are.

      These can't be general circulation coins. It's too expensive to put RFID in a coin, and there's no use for it. If the government was minting RFID coins, even as a test-run, there would be *some* mention of it *somewhere. If the government were doing it for legit purposes, they would own up to it after these reports. These coins must be being specially made.

      Why would you want to make them? I don't think you're really worried about the coin itself; you are worried about the person carrying the coins. You don't need to know where they are at any moment -- there is no infrastructure to track a single coin. You just want to correlate a person carrying these tagged coins on a regular basis with the source of the tagged coins. It's a kind of 'swarming' identification. If the person regularly has a number of tagged coins in their pocket 3 days out of the week, you know they must be one of the people interacting directly with the source. This person is part of the group of people you are trying to identify.

      Imagine a customs checkpoint on the border with thousands of people passing by every day. Suppose you know that there are some 50 contractors passing by there every day on their way to work in Canada. For whatever reason, you can't figure out who they are in any other way. But suppose you have access to the Canadian money supply inside the vending machines of the worksite. So you make sure that all of the Canadian money coming into the vending machine is tagged. You have a scanner inside the customs booth. Everyday, there are a number of cars where the driver has anywhere from 0-3 tagged coins. You know these guys must be getting tagged coins from the vending machine you control.

      --
      Computers are useless. They can only give you answers.
      -- Pablo Picasso
    10. Re:Motive??? by APLowman · · Score: 1

      That would be England, not Canada.

    11. Re:Motive??? by 6ame633k · · Score: 1

      I've never seen a man keep change in his pocket for more than a day - they get rid of it as soon as possible.

      --
      You had me at merlot
    12. Re:Motive??? by paeanblack · · Score: 2, Funny

      Apparently the name of this project is "Where's Betty?"

    13. Re:Motive??? by FuzzyDaddy · · Score: 1

      If you give a canadian coin to an american, they're not going to spend it once they leave the country.

      --
      It's not wasting time, I'm educating myself.
    14. Re:Motive??? by Bryansix · · Score: 1

      I keep change in my pockets for weeks.

    15. Re:Motive??? by paganizer · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I haven't been a high energy microwave tech actively for quite a while, but i'm pretty certain thst with some $$ and an actual interest, I could read a passive rfid tag at about 100m. Might screw up some nearby cell phones, though.

      --
      Why, yes, I AM a Pagan Libertarian.
    16. Re:Motive??? by archen · · Score: 5, Informative

      Although it doesn't say what kind of coin was involved, I would guess it's almost certainly the two dollar coin. Mainly because I'd guess it's easy to pop out the center part of it that is a different metal. Even if you put plastic in there, the metal frame around it would make it feel pretty similar to a normal coin. There is also an advantage that when you cross the border you can't unload $1 and $2 coins. You can try to pawn off the small change to people who aren't paying attention (a problem in itself for northern states), but no one is going to take the big change - some won't take American dollar coins for that matter. Anyway that means they are more likely to keep the coin at least until they return to Canada.

      Also it's better if vending machines reject the coin. If you can't spend it in a soda machine you're going to just keep the coin, and probably try another.

    17. Re:Motive??? by UncleTogie · · Score: 5, Informative

      "...to homeless people who you know will spend it on drugs..."

      That's funny, Spanky... when *I* was homeless I was FAR more interested in staying fed, getting a job, and getting back to where I was now. So were most of the guys at the shelter.

      My question: Did you have a big helping of WhiteBreadNess this morning, or do you watch too much cable?

      ...and to stay ontopic, I have to ask: While everyone here is usin' RFID tags as a reference, the article states that

      As a result, the type of transmitter in play -- and its ultimate purpose -- remain a mystery. However, tiny tracking tags, known as RFIDs, are commonly placed in everything from clothing to key chains to help retailers track inventory.

      Assuming you're not limited to RFID limits, in theory how much power could one of these spit out? What distance could they be tracked from?
      --
      Don't tell me to get a life. I'm a gamer; I have LOTS of lives!
    18. Re:Motive??? by Ced_Ex · · Score: 2, Funny

      That's SO SIMPLE! Obviously it was an undercover operative posing as a Tim Horton's employee. The contractor bought a medium double-double and a apple fritter, and got the bugged coin as change.

      The coin is to track the coffee and donut chain's competitor's in the US, such as Dunkin Donuts or whatever.

      --
      Live forever, or die trying.
    19. Re:Motive??? by Curtman · · Score: 1
      For the life of me, I can't figure a reason that somebody would do this.

      Because there's a great conspiracy afoot up here.
    20. Re:Motive??? by LiquidCoooled · · Score: 1

      OK, I've been reading all this and thinking about it and it STILL doesn't make sense.
      I cannot think of a more brain-dead stupid idiotic place to put a bug.

      What do we tell people to do to protect themselves from RFID privacy invasion? ... ... ...

      Wrap it in tin foil.

      Now, what effect do you think would happen if you embedded an RFID antenna inside a solid metallic lump?
      Even if it was only on one side of the coin, you have just cut your chances of detecting it by 50%

      Without evidence there is no bug and I stick by my original hypothosis.

      --
      liqbase :: faster than paper
    21. Re:Motive??? by Beryllium+Sphere(tm) · · Score: 2, Informative

      >What I do think however is that in a small percentage of coins they resonate at the same frequency as an RFID which would appear as though they were magical.

      The Cryptic Article just says "transmitter" and goes on to speculate that it might be RFID. To look like an RFID without being one, the coin would not only have to resonate but also transmit a 128 bit number. Another problem is that the usual RFID wavelengths are way bigger than a coin.

      And yes, RFID in a metal object doesn't make sense. Inside, it's shielded: outside, it's visible.

    22. Re:Motive??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

      You need to change pants more often.

    23. Re:Motive??? by HTH+NE1 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Either you only want to track that person for a very short amount of time, or you're really interested in tracking the money itself.

      I doubt this is intended as a coinage solution for Where's Willy, the Canadian currency form of Where's George. And the duration of the track of an individual depends on when the subject is expected to make another purchase. And it doesn't have to be very long to get useful, potentially compromising information, or just get the subject close enough to a reader wired to an explosive device.

      Scarier is the thought that such RF trackers are just the test run, gathering distribution data to see what will happen when they replace the RFID chips with tiny samples of Polonium-210 or other more deadly toxins.

      --
      Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?
    24. Re:Motive??? by mmanrrtff · · Score: 1

      We put tracking chips in the coins we give bums. Makes it easier to find their corpses in snow banks when they freeze to death. These Americans were obviously stealing from the homeless

    25. Re:Motive??? by Abreu · · Score: 1

      Well, if you count a single raid by a Revolutionary Guerrilla, then Mexico invaded the USA once: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pancho_Villa_Expediti on

      The link is actually about the unsuccessful punitive expedition mounted by the US military to aprehend Villa, but Wikipedia doesnt have a page on the original attack by Villa, who was angry at the USA after they first offerred support and then withdrew it.

      --
      No sig for the moment.
    26. Re:Motive??? by Schraegstrichpunkt · · Score: 1

      To look like an RFID without being one, the coin would not only have to resonate but also transmit a 128 bit number.

      It does: It emits a special, scary-ghost-sound "OooooOoooooOooooooooOooooooOoooo" number.

    27. Re:Motive??? by juan2074 · · Score: 1

      The Department of Defense is trying to start something, to justify an invasion of Canada in a few years. Canada has oil.

    28. Re:Motive??? by artson · · Score: 3, Informative
      'cause that's how all the terrorists get in.

      Maybe you were reaching for humour, but if not, then you're dead wrong. With one exception I can think of, all terrorists in the US, came into the US from overseas using valid passports. Not from Canada.

      --
      In times of trouble, the smell of frying onions usually gives confidence and comfort.
    29. Re:Motive??? by draxbear · · Score: 1

      Couldn't the metal outer casing (the coin) be used as the antenna?

      --
      --- I've completed diagnosis of your problem and can classify it as a YOYO...You're On Your Own
    30. Re:Motive??? by Qzukk · · Score: 1, Redundant

      Even if it was only on one side of the coin, you have just cut your chances of detecting it by 50%

      That's why it was suggested that it was the $2 coin. The middle could be popped out and replaced without many people (especially Americans who don't encounter such coins on a daily basis) noticing it at all, and with the whole middle replaced, it could go through both sides of the coin.

      --
      If I have been able to see further than others, it is because I bought a pair of binoculars.
    31. Re:Motive??? by THE+ROCK · · Score: 1

      The Department of Defense is trying to start something, to justify an invasion of Canada in a few years. Canada has oil.

      Quiet! Don't put any ideas into Bush's head please.

      Before we realize what's going on, the White House will be reporting on new evidence linking beavers to terrorism.

      An invasion will follow shortly. Then an occupation of the Alberta oil fields, and of course a drawn out trial for Tim Horton, which will lead to an eventual execution.

      Also, if you think Shias and Sunnis can't get along, wait until you see the clash between drunken Leaf and Oiler fans. These and other sects of mindless drunken hockey fans will roam the country and weave a path of unimaginable destruction in their wake.

      I weep for our future.

    32. Re:Motive??? by JazzLad · · Score: 2, Funny

      I read that you read the article and thought WTF. ;)

      --
      "If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear." - Every fascist, ever
    33. Re:Motive??? by StikyPad · · Score: 2, Interesting

      My guess is that it was just a proof-of-concept for one of the vendors looking to sell the technology to someone (although obviously not to the contractors involved), therefore it was irrelevant as to whether the coins were disposed of shortly, or ever. If someone had developed a method of tracking the RFID tags over distances of 10s or 100s of meters, it would make tagging and following someone much easier. Additionally, if the tags could fit in a coin, it's great evidence that they can be implanted in small everyday objects that wouldn't raise suspicion.

      If I were a vendor, and I could say "Hey, I planted these devices on US personnel and was able to track them all over Toronto without raising suspicion (until much later)."

      On the other hand, the fact that they were, in fact, discovered later sort of invalidates that claim. The object may well have been to have the individuals dispose of the coins before ever noticing they had been compromised.

    34. Re:Motive??? by Slithe · · Score: 1
      From negativepositive:
      Check that date again? That's right. You haven't found anything else to shove in our faces in nearly TWO HUNDRED FUCKING YEARS. And let's get something straight. It wasn't EVEN the Canadians that burned the White House. It was the British. The Canadians fought alongside the British in the War of 1812, but it wasn't them who burned the White House. If you look anywhere online (other than an Anti-USA Canadian comebacks page) it ALWAYS says the British did it. And NO, being a British Colony doesn't make you British. As you're so fond of reminding the whole world every chance you get, "I am Canadian, Eh!" So, Canadian, no bragging rights for British accomplishments. That's like someone winning the Nobel Prize and having his CAT take credit for it. While you're digesting the fact that you can't take credit for burning down A particular building, consider the fact that WE BURNED THE WHOLE CITY OF TORONTO FIRST (York, the capital of Upper Canada at the time). The British burned Washington, including the White House in 1814. Also, you say that bit about us not being able to burn Ottawa as though it was even the capital of Canada during the War of 1812. Kingston was the capital of Canada at the time. Ottawa wasn't named the capital of Canada until 1857. I guess when you're uneducated enough to think Canada burned Washington D.C. you're uneducated enough to think Ottawa was always Canada's capital.
      --
      ---- "XML is like violence. If it doesn't fix the problem, you aren't using enough."
    35. Re:Motive??? by M.+Baranczak · · Score: 1

      Also, if you think Shias and Sunnis can't get along, wait until you see the clash between drunken Leaf and Oiler fans.

      Sadly true. So far, the brutal dictatorship of Tim Horton has been keeping those sectarian animosities in check, but attempts to impose a western-style democracy on Canada could backfire like a moose in the headlights.

    36. Re:Motive??? by drmarcj · · Score: 1
      "Passing the coin to an unwitting contractor, particularly in strife-torn countries, could mark the person for kidnapping or assassination" But that doesn't seem practical in this case.
      Sure it does! Ever try getting rid of Canadian money outside Canada? Impossible, nobody wants it. Especially coins - I more than once have had a Canadian penny - yes penny - handed back to me as "not real money" when paying at the till in the US.
    37. Re:Motive??? by dangitman · · Score: 1

      If you want to track drug purchases, wouldn't it be better to give the coins to, say, Rush Limbaugh or Paris hilton?

      --
      ... and then they built the supercollider.
    38. Re:Motive??? by dangitman · · Score: 2, Funny

      could backfire like a moose in the headlights.

      And you don't want to be anywhere in the vicinity when a moose backfires. That just reeks. It's also no use arguing with a moose over who dealt it.

      --
      ... and then they built the supercollider.
    39. Re:Motive??? by AB3A · · Score: 1

      Mod that parent post from a fellow Technocrat up. I was going to point that out too. Coins are inherently shielded. The only way I can envision one radiating is if you split the coin down the middle and inserted a non-conducting peice between the two halves. Even then, I doubt you could get it to radiate far.

      I have heard of certain high value paper currency containing RFID. But that's for authentication of the currency, not for tracking. Frankly, I can't imagine why anyone would bother doing this with coins...

      --
      Nearly fifty percent of all graduates come from the bottom half of the class!
    40. Re:Motive??? by gripen40k · · Score: 1

      That's the first thing that popped into my mind. RFID would be a neat experiment, but totally useless in a twonie... Why would you have to identify someone via RFID when you could just as easily match their face to a picture at the border (or elsewhere).

      Although... now that I think of it, maybe someone was trying to track a particular person (could have been someone who had the coin before him) where this person's face was unknown. I'm not sure of what details, but it is feasible. Or give to privileged security personnel; have a scanner at the door of a high security facility, no cards are needed, and so it would be harder to penetrate without knowing what they were using...

      --
      Har?
    41. Re:Motive??? by alienmole · · Score: 1
      Are you sure that RFID has a limited range? I'd think that the gub'mints would have something better.
      They do, but luckily that technology is still defeated by my tinfoil hat.
    42. Re:Motive??? by gripen40k · · Score: 1

      Can't we all get along? Really, who cares, both sides did damage to the other, that's how wars work (well, those not involving the French that is... Ha, I kid, I kid...).

      Yes someone burnt down some silly building, and it doesn't really matter who, but I still cringe when people use it as some kind of proof that Canadians are better than Americans...

      --
      Har?
    43. Re:Motive??? by sumdumass · · Score: 1

      How about a "test batch" of coins for blind people who have a pocket scanner that tells them exactly what they have. They probably got released by accident at a government facility the contractors visited and they got it as change from thier lunch. This could be usefull if a redesign of the coins were comming up to save on metals cost that seem to be skyrocketing since the war.

    44. Re:Motive??? by sumdumass · · Score: 1

      Wasn't there a story a while back were large sums of US cash was setting off the RFID security scanners at department stores. And someone microwave the money and found that bthe eyes of the presidents blackened.

      This isn't the exact story i was thinking of but it details it a little better.

    45. Re:Motive??? by sumdumass · · Score: 1

      Interestingly the white house was never refered to as the whitehouse untill then. It was the salvage efforts and the repairing that gave it a white coat of paint to get the image of being burnt down out of the publics mind that caused it to be painted white and called the white house.

      It was orginialy going to be called the presidential pallace and be about four time what it is todaybut fellings of a monarchy truned it into the presidents house. It wasn't until years later after it was being repaird it took the name of the white house. Primarily because of how much White paint it took to cover it. 300 or so gallons of white paint was needed.

      So without the burning and rebuld, It probably never would have taken the name "the whitehouse" and probably never have taken as much of a role in the status it holds as it does today. Which sounds better, "The Presidents House" or the "White House"? White House seems to give a little extra something. don't you think?

    46. Re:Motive??? by forgotten_my_nick · · Score: 1

      not sure why you were modded funny. It was a suggestion for RFID in currency. The EU had even planned to put RFID into the notes by 2005 back in 2001 (no idea what happened there).

      http://www.eetimes.com/story/OEG20011219S0016

    47. Re:Motive??? by ajs318 · · Score: 1

      But you can already tell the value of a coin without looking at it, just by the diameter, thickness, number of sides and presence or absence of a milled edge. I don't know about Canadian coins, but both British and Continental coins are easily identified by feel.

      --
      Je fume. Tu fumes. Nous fûmes!
    48. Re:Motive??? by Ernesto+Alvarez · · Score: 1

      If I were a vendor, and I could say "Hey, I planted these devices on US personnel and was able to track them all over Toronto without raising suspicion (until much later)."


      Reality check.

      If you were a vendor that made such coins as a proof of concept, would you admit distributing COUNTERFEIT MONEY?

      I guess we won't know what is this all about unless it was an error or some sort of government test.
    49. Re:Motive??? by superflippy · · Score: 1

      Wish I could mod your post "scary."

      --
      Your fantasies contain the seeds of important concepts.
    50. Re:Motive??? by HTH+NE1 · · Score: 1

      I just hope it doesn't become Insightful!

      --
      Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?
    51. Re:Motive??? by Thangodin · · Score: 1

      The assumption most people are making here is that it was actually the Canadian mint that put the tag in the coin (if indeed there was one.) The article implies that anyone could have done it, and in fact, intelligence agencies from outside of North America would probably have a stronger motive. But I just can't see the point of it either; with the looneys and toonies here, everyone tries to get rid of their change quickly so they don't end up carrying a pound of metal in their pockets. And the range is very limited, and even if the coin doesn't shield the chip, the other coins around it probably will. Really dumb idea, if you ask me, but 'intelligence' organizations all over the world seem to specialize in those. The whole thing reeks of tin-foil-hat theory--some paranoid probably scanned his Canadian coins, got a 'signal' from the inlaid types (who knows what he considered a signal) and concluded they were bugged.

      It just happens that there are two Canadian coins that have an inset center, making them perfect for this kind of modification: the tooney and a commemorative quarter from last year. The quarter was a bit of a dud, with a red glaze that wore off, so it ended up looking like crap anyway. That one would be easy to bug--you could replace the center with ceramic or plastic and no one would be able to tell. But again, I can't see the point, unless it was another experiment by the mint in counterfeit detection. The Canadian government seems to be very concerned by counterfeiting, and comes up with new bills every few years with improved anti-counterfeiting measures. I'm not sure why--about 75% of all American currency in circulation is counterfeit, due to industrial scale operations in Russia that are probably still going, and the American government doesn't seem the least bit concerned.

    52. Re:Motive??? by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 1

      How about a "test batch" of coins for blind people who have a pocket scanner that tells them exactly what they have. They probably got released by accident at a government facility the contractors visited and they got it as change from thier lunch.

      Your suggestion wins the "never attribute to malice..." rule of thumb contest, so it's probably right.

      This could be usefull if a redesign of the coins were comming up to save on metals cost that seem to be skyrocketing since the war.

      Causality != Causastion. The growth of China and the closing of several copper mines are the driving factors.

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
    53. Re:Motive??? by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 1

      Causality != Causastion.

      and I'm braindead today...

      Correlation != Causation

      sigh.

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
    54. Re:Motive??? by StikyPad · · Score: 1

      Ok, let's say it was a sales pitch for Egypt. Do you really think Egypt gives two sh!ts about the fact that Canadian currency may have been forged in the process?

      Canada might care, but a) there's no evidence this was for them, and b) who said it was counterfiet? They could have just modified existing currency which, if Canadian law is anything like US law, is only a crime if it was modified to defraud (i.e., wash a $1 and print a $100 on the paper).

    55. Re:Motive??? by PinkPanther · · Score: 1
      Yes, humour, eh?

      Apparently some mod'ers don't get that either.

      --
      It's a simple matter of complex programming.
    56. Re:Motive??? by ArcticCelt · · Score: 1
      "The only conclusion that I can come to is that someone is tracking these contractors to figure out who they are"

      Also the fact that the DOD found the bug so rapidly seams to indicate that those "contractors" where probably more than contractors and that's why they where bugged in the first place.

      --

      Yahh, hiii haaaaa! -Major Kong, from Dr. Strangelove
  2. In Canada... by EXMSFT · · Score: 5, Funny

    coins track YOU!

    1. Re:In Canada... by JustOK · · Score: 1

      Only old people in Canada use coins. The rest of us use Interac.

      --
      rewriting history since 2109
    2. Re:In Canada... by ElrondHubbard · · Score: 1

      ITYM (pace, Pat Buchanan): "In Soviet Canuckistan... coins track YOU!"

      --
      "The deep-fried Mars bar is a symptom of a wider crisis." -- Nutritionist Ann Ralph, on the Scottish diet
    3. Re:In Canada... by CastrTroy · · Score: 1

      And that's because we have coins all the way up to $2. It sucks having to walk around with a kilogram of change in your pocket. I would use cash more if it wasn't for all that damn change.

      --

      Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
    4. Re:In Canada... by gad_zuki! · · Score: 1

      In Socialist Canada, coins collect you!

    5. Re:In Canada... by revelous · · Score: 1

      is anyone else wierded out by this?

    6. Re:In Canada... by daveo0331 · · Score: 1

      I'll bet you've never had to struggle with getting a vending machine to accept currency. Dollar coins aren't all bad.

      --
      Remember the days when Republicans were the party of fiscal responsibility?
    7. Re:In Canada... by PinkPanther · · Score: 1
      It sucks having to walk around with a kilogram of change in your pocket.
      But how much is too much? A decagram? A decigram? centigram, milligram, picogram, nanogram?

      Google: how many picograms in a pound?

      damn, i love google

      --
      It's a simple matter of complex programming.
    8. Re:In Canada... by DaveJay · · Score: 1

      In a bit of offtopicness -- let's throw out the US penny AND nickel, and convert the quarter into an identical piece equal to 20 cents (so that people would avoid accidentally passing a quarter when a 20-cent-piece would do, and people accepting money would look really, really close at what they were getting, or refuse to accept quarters outright.) Then add a dollar coin.

      Now you're left with dimes, fifths, and dollars. Fifths can be divided into dimes, and dollars into either -- and we can drop the hundredths place from currency. $9.95 becomes $9.9 or $10, $9.99 also becomes $9.9 or $10, and for once our currency (at least up to a dollar) will make sense!

      Then we add RFID tags to all of it. There, I tied it into the topic at hand.

    9. Re:In Canada... by PinkPanther · · Score: 1

      But I would have to wonder if $9.9 would work as well as $9.99 in terms of psychological pricing.

      --
      It's a simple matter of complex programming.
  3. Perhaps this is overblown? by 8127972 · · Score: 4, Informative
    --
    This is my opinion. To make sure you don't steal it, it's covered by the DMCA.
    1. Re:Perhaps this is overblown? by u19925 · · Score: 1

      why would they use canadian coins to track americans? actually, these coins were made by US govt to track canadians. now that the story is out, they are denying that such coins exist.

    2. Re:Perhaps this is overblown? by brian0918 · · Score: 1

      From the article:

      "There is no story there," the official told The Globe and Mail.

      In other words... "These aren't the loons you're looking for."

    3. Re:Perhaps this is overblown? by Pollardito · · Score: 1
      from that article:

      But the item about the Canadian coins item appeared to be the result of only partial intelligence.

      Defence contractors had apparently been give certain special-issue Canadian coins, the unfamiliar look of which caused them to be concerned about the money, a source said. That led to an investigation once the contractors returned to the United States .

      But a U.S. agency that investigated the complaint found no evidence of any secret transmitters, or of any other tampering.

  4. RFID chips by User+956 · · Score: 4, Funny

    Canadian coins containing tiny transmitters have mysteriously turned up in the pockets of at least three American contractors who visited Canada

    With RFID chips costing a fraction of a cent apiece, the addition of such a chip must at least triple the value of whatever canadian currency you add it to.

    --
    The theory of relativity doesn't work right in Arkansas.
    1. Re:RFID chips by MyNymWasTaken · · Score: 5, Informative

      No argument, here. However, the Canadian Dollar is close to reaching parity with the US Dollar.

      Canadian Dollar to U.S. Dollar Exchange Rate

    2. Re:RFID chips by Dunbal · · Score: 2, Informative

      the addition of such a chip must at least triple the value of whatever canadian currency you add it to.

            Your joke is out of context, what with a plummeting US dollar and all. I almost feel sorry for you guys, but your sinking dollar made me a lot of money :)

      --
      Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
    3. Re:RFID chips by Harmonious+Botch · · Score: 1

      "With RFID chips costing a fraction of a cent apiece"

      Less than a cent?? WHERE??? ( I can't find them lower than 5 cents each and that is in huge quantities )

    4. Re:RFID chips by jmac1492 · · Score: 1

      Are they tracking Canadian Tire Money too?

      --
      Jenny's got a new number! 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
    5. Re:RFID chips by Ced_Ex · · Score: 1

      In 1974 Canadians were making jokes about the USD value, but we didn't have internet back then, so you wouldn't have seen them.

      --
      Live forever, or die trying.
    6. Re:RFID chips by Neurotoxic666 · · Score: 1

      Actually, this is the lowest the CDN dollar has been since June 2005 (if I remember correctly). It was worth more than $0,90 US a few months ago.
       
      But our beer's still better ;P

      --
      You are more than the sum of what you consume. Desire is not an occupation.
  5. Data mining by subl33t · · Score: 1

    We're just trying to find out what cola American defence contractors' prefer.

    1. Re:Data mining by WidescreenFreak · · Score: 1

      Um ... wouldn't the amount of money in the collection bins of the various vending machines at the contractors' workplace do the same thing? Whichever machine has less product at the end of the day would also be a good clue. ;)

      All kidding aside, if this is true it's completely ridiculous. I can't think of one reason where bugging coins would prove to be of any value whatsoever. To track where the money goes? That's what a company's income statements are for. For determining which coins go to which businesses? Again, for what purpose? Or is there such a market in counterfeit, Canadian coins that this is a new way of determining which ones are real and which are fake? I'm being facetious in the last comment, of course, but this strikes be as being either (A) bogus or (B) totally nonsensical. Then again, since we are talking about something that comes from the government, (B) might be understandable.

      --
      The Overrated mod is for reversing inappropriate, positive mods, not for voicing disagreement with a post.
    2. Re:Data mining by bbernard · · Score: 1

      They're probably trying to see if those contractors were trying to buy prescription drugs on the cheap up north...Did you know that $.50 Canadian can get you 50 Viagra? I have email that tells me this is true!

      --
      ----- Connection reset by beer
  6. The crazy dude on the corner by antifoidulus · · Score: 3, Funny

    screaming about how the birds are spying on him makes a bit more sense now.....

    1. Re:The crazy dude on the corner by Frogular · · Score: 1

      Spies of Saruman?

    2. Re:The crazy dude on the corner by ackthpt · · Score: 1

      screaming about how the birds are spying on him makes a bit more sense now.....

      He always did. You just started listening

      --

      A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
    3. Re:The crazy dude on the corner by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      Yeah, it makes even more sense considering the Canadian dollar coin is known as the "loonie". It has a picture of a loon on it.

      No, on the *opposite* side from the picture of Liz.

  7. In other news by JayTech · · Score: 1

    In other news, the U.S. Department of Defense is now requiring all contractor's pocket change to be scanned upon re-enter the country.

    1. Re:In other news by Alchemar · · Score: 1

      Did you mean "All money from contractors returning into the country will be confiscated in the name of fighting terroism" ?

    2. Re:In other news by WormholeFiend · · Score: 1

      In other news, the U.S. Department of Defense is now requiring all contractor's pocket change to be scanned upon re-enter the country

      What are the odds that these measures will be applied to airline security?

      Or would an x-ray machine zap the crap out of an RFID chip?

    3. Re:In other news by choongiri · · Score: 1

      Or would an x-ray machine zap the crap out of an RFID chip?

      Well I hope not, otherwise what happens when my jacket (with RFID enabled passport still in the jacket pocket) gets "zapped" before I get on the plane? I land in the USA with a passport that won't scan, and proceed to be bundled off to gitmo as a terr'ist.

  8. Takes WheresGeorge to a new level! by RobertB-DC · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Wow, and I thought I was on the cutting edge by stamping bills and entering them into Where's George?

    In fact, a April Fool's joke I recall was that WG had developed a way to track US dollar coins, with a machine that would emboss a unique serial number into the coin's smooth edge. The new project would be "Where's Sackie?"

    Looks like the Canadian government is way ahead of the curve on that one. Better alert the folks at Where's Willy?, the northern branch of Where's George?.

    --
    Stressed? Me? Of course not. Stress is what a rubber band feels before it breaks, silly.
    1. Re:Takes WheresGeorge to a new level! by smackt4rd · · Score: 1
      "Where's Sackie?"
      In my Pants!!!
    2. Re:Takes WheresGeorge to a new level! by PinkPanther · · Score: 1
      ooks like the Canadian government is way ahead of the curve
      You've fallen for it...you've assumed that this is a foreign plot. That's just what they want you to believe.
      --
      It's a simple matter of complex programming.
  9. Name Change by Penguinshit · · Score: 1

    Canada is changing from the "Looney" to the "Buggy" !

  10. whats the point. by VEGETA_GT · · Score: 1

    Ok first off, I believe this is completely overblown, think about it. We give you coins that can be tracked, great, well what do you do with a coin. Spend it, so it ends up in someone else's pocket and da da da. Unless you know who's pocket the coin is in, the information gathered from it is relay useless. You could not even tell that the coin changed hands. Say I I owe Bill 5$, well here is some coins and its in a new pocket. and if people are worried about the coin being used to track you, again the coin can't tell who you are, so sure your location may be tracked but the info is meaningless. The only purpose I can see for this is to track the path of cash as it gets around between visits at the bank. there is already a website in Canada that people write on some bills, which you can go to, enter the specific bill's number, and see where the bill has been. but it dose mean someone had to enter it into the system, so you end up with missing places, but its still interesting.

  11. Why use coins to track contracters? by loupgarou21 · · Score: 1

    Doesn't it make more sense that canada would use the coins with rfid chips planted in them to simply track circulaton rather than track a few individuals that would probably just end up spending the coins?

  12. Less quickly than you think. by jbeaupre · · Score: 2, Informative

    Two reasons they might not change hands quickly:
    1) Canadian coins don't get unloaded as quickly in the US since not everyone is happy to accept them, so often those coins are the last you attempt to spend. (a minor factor, I admit).
    2) Everyone seems to end up with a pocketful of change at the end of the day that gets dumped in a pile. The pile just grows.

    Still doesn't answer the why ... unless some Canadian is trying to find American stashes of loose change.

    --
    The world is made by those who show up for the job.
  13. In Soviet Great Britain? by Gulik · · Score: 1

    Well, it's like that old British saying: "If the pennies look after you, the lookers will get themselves pounded."

    Wait...

  14. Microwave by KingNaught · · Score: 2, Funny

    Just pop your loose change in the microwave for 15sec problem solved ...

    1. Re:Microwave by SpaceLifeForm · · Score: 1

      With a cup of water.

      --
      You are being MICROattacked, from various angles, in a SOFT manner.
    2. Re:Microwave by KingNaught · · Score: 1

      Metal in a microwave is not nearly as danjourous as they make it sound. Sure put steelwool in it and you get hellfire, but if you forget and leave a metal spoon in your coffee it won't do any damage if its just for 15sec.

  15. Were these coins found in a nylon mesh bag and by T00lman · · Score: 1

    made of chocolate? MMMMMMMM chocolate.

    --
    0x7279727972797279
  16. Logical course of action? Invade Canada! by uber_geek9 · · Score: 4, Funny

    These RFID coins are clearly the work of Canadian Terrorists trying to harm the American people.

  17. hmm by dheera · · Score: 3, Interesting

    well, for sure, it would make creating coin vending machines much easier to implement, mechanically. once i was in canada and received a coin that looked like this which i initially thought was fake, but believed later after reading online.

    1. Re:hmm by camperdave · · Score: 4, Informative

      That is a commemorative coin marking the 60th anniversary of D-Day, and the 90th anniversary of WWI. The poppy became the symbol of remembrance of our war dead through the poem In Flander's Fields, written by Lieutenant Colonel John McCrae, a Canadian battlefield doctor in World War One.

      --
      When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
    2. Re:hmm by Pizentios · · Score: 1

      There are may coins in canada that get special stuff printed on them like the quater that you posted a link to. Here's a news article about a more recent quater that they released: http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNew s/20060331/pink_coin_060331/20060331?hub=Health

      It was released to increace awareness about breast cancer.

      --
      -Pizentios
    3. Re:hmm by gstoddart · · Score: 1
      well, for sure, it would make creating coin vending machines much easier to implement, mechanically. once i was in canada and received a coin that looked like this [members.shaw.ca] which i initially thought was fake, but believed later after reading online.

      Well, our quarters, loonies, and toonies ($1CDN and $2CDN for those who don't know) have so many permutations on them that residents find it impossible to identify them half of the time.

      Very often, I get some change, look at one of the coins, and I'm left with the impression of "what the hell is this?". It seems every year they add several variations on each coin, and most people don't recognize an awful lot of them.

      And, as you point out, vending machines can get confused with so many different variations.

      Very annoying.

      Cheers
      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    4. Re:hmm by Sibko · · Score: 1

      Well, our quarters, loonies, and toonies ($1CDN and $2CDN for those who don't know) have so many permutations on them that residents find it impossible to identify them half of the time. Very often, I get some change, look at one of the coins, and I'm left with the impression of "what the hell is this?". It seems every year they add several variations on each coin, and most people don't recognize an awful lot of them. And, as you point out, vending machines can get confused with so many different variations. Very annoying. Cheers Speak for yourself, eh? No one I've ever met has ever complained about the coins being hard to recognize. I can instantly tell when I'm holding a toonie or a loonie. The only changes are the images on them, and so what? That's really frickin' cool that our mint can put little bits of artwork on our currency all the time. Far removed from being annoying.
    5. Re:hmm by Suddenly_Dead · · Score: 1

      Aye. They're the same size, shape (outside edge), and weight. The different variations also apparently have the same electromagnetic signature, so a metal detector would read them to be the same. I have never heard anyone complain about them; most of the time people hardly notice the special varieties.

  18. Is this even true? by Mr+44 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    From the article:
    "The report, which first came to light in a U.S. newspaper, has since been posted on the website of the Federation of American Scientists, an organization that tracks the intelligence world and promotes government openness."

    Well, I don't see it on fas.org (search), and if its in a "american newspaper", its one that google news doesn't search.

    Something just doesn't sound right about this whole story.... It makes no sense, and there's no other cites for it.

    1. Re:Is this even true? by Software · · Score: 1

      While it does sound far-fetched, there's a link to the Fas.org site under "Related" header on the right side of TFA. http://www.fas.org/irp/threat/2006trends.pdf (2.4 MB PDF warning). Due to the JavaScript vulnerability in Acrobat Reader, I have not read the file myself.

    2. Re:Is this even true? by SpaceLifeForm · · Score: 1

      It's a story that was accidently leaked 80 days early.

      --
      You are being MICROattacked, from various angles, in a SOFT manner.
    3. Re:Is this even true? by orkysoft · · Score: 1

      Also, if the chip is inside the coin, the coin's metal should shield the chip from ever receiving or sending any signals, won't it? So it sounds bollocks to me.

      --

      I suffer from attention surplus disorder.
    4. Re:Is this even true? by Haeleth · · Score: 1
      Due to the JavaScript vulnerability in Acrobat Reader, I have not read the file myself.
      Why not just use one of the numerous other PDF reading applications and stop having to worry about such things?
    5. Re:Is this even true? by KillerCow · · Score: 1
      Verifying sources? Checking facts? Seeing if the story survives even the most basic whiff test? On Slashdot? You must be new here.

      Spy coin report overblown, U.S. official says

      But a U.S. agency that investigated the complaint found no evidence of any secret transmitters, or of any other tampering.

      It's not clear why this information failed to find its way into the released U.S. Defence Security Service report.


      The Canadian mint puts out speciality coins on a regular basis. I remember getting dimes that I thought were subway tokens at one point (they looked different and weighed less). What is most likely is that the contractors got a speciality coin and didn't know what it was.

      Remembrance day quarter.
  19. Extortion? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The coins may have been given in some immoral/illegal situation by Canada's equivalent of the CIA. Perhaps by one posing as a prostitute? Perhaps perhaps at the scene of a bribe (no, I'm not saying the coin itself is the bribe; but perhaps the bartender gave the bugged coins at the scene)? If the coins showed up on the person in a meeting with the contractor the next day you'd guess which members of the contractors team were present during the immoral activity.

    1. Re:Extortion? by Slithe · · Score: 5, Funny

      Canada's equivalent of the CIA Would that be the CI-eh?
      --
      ---- "XML is like violence. If it doesn't fix the problem, you aren't using enough."
    2. Re:Extortion? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      The coins may have been given in some immoral/illegal situation by Canada's equivalent of the CIA.

      That would be CSIS. In which case there's nothing to worry about here; CSIS never does anything right.

    3. Re:Extortion? by ACMENEWSLLC · · Score: 1

      Maybe this is just a Canadian method of "Where's George?"

  20. Re:my guess by WhyDoYouWantToKnow · · Score: 1

    You're right, I've never seen a twoney (I guess I'm one of those stupid Americans). But, then again, the US did stop producing the 2 dollar bill a few years ago.

    --
    "Oh drat these computers, they're so naughty and so complex. I could pinch them."
    Marvin the Martian
  21. LOL by gx5000 · · Score: 1

    Although this sounds like an isolated case, once the coin(s) is(are) back
    in the US of A, where the heck would you spend it ?
    Anyone in the US accepted any loonies lately ?
    So the "they'll be ridd of the coin soon" reasoning is gone.
    This was probably just a one time tracking test. ;-)

    --
    End of Line.
    1. Re:LOL by lunaticfringe1 · · Score: 1

      They will probably all end up in Las Vegas where they can be exchanged for gambling money.

    2. Re:LOL by istartedi · · Score: 1

      The picture in the article is a Loony, but the text says they won't identify what coins are involved. Canadian pennies, nickles, and dimes are routinely passed by US cashiers. That's right--$US==$CAN if the the coinage is small enough and you aren't careful enough to look, which I have to admin I'm usually not. This doesn't piss me off nearly as much as the Dominican coin I got at a yardsale one time. That had to be nearly worthless; but I digress. The point is, small denomination Canadian coins are routinely passed in the US without much fuss. The nickel seems like the most likey target--big enough to hide whatever they want, small enough denominatino not to cause a fuss, common enough in change not to arrouse suspicion. Loonies never pass in the US, because we hate dollar coins down here. I've never seen a Can' quarter either, but I live in DC. Maybe it's more common near the border.

      --
      For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
    3. Re:LOL by ubrgeek · · Score: 1

      Anyone in the US accepted any loonies lately ?

      If you have to ask, you didn't pay attention to the last presidential election ;)

      --
      Bark less. Wag more.
    4. Re:LOL by gx5000 · · Score: 1

      I think that's was where I was going with that ;-)
      But he's from Connecticut anyways...lol
      I downloaded the full 2006trends.pdf...
      It's like I said, a few isolated incidents, someone's head is gonna roll...
      It's not as if were actively taking steps here in the 'Axis of Nations That Are Actually Quite Nice But Secretly Have Nasty Thoughts About America'

      hxxp://www.madraff.co.uk/pol.html#Axis%20of%20evil

      Cheers

      --
      End of Line.
  22. No no no! by ackthpt · · Score: 1

    In Canada.. coins track YOU!

    no no no no!

    In The Great White North the money trail follows YOU!

    --

    A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
  23. Re:Logical course of action? Invade Canada! by GreenEnvy22 · · Score: 1

    We're wondering why you haven't invaded us already, we sell you far more oil then any other country :)

  24. so how do you tell? by phrostie · · Score: 1

    if you did have some of these coins, how would you tell?

    1. Re:so how do you tell? by zuluechopapa · · Score: 1

      The big cargo van with a dish on top and a maple leaf on the side that happens to be following you around is the biggest give away. :)

      --
      even the magic 8 ball has an opinion on email clients: Outlook not so good.
  25. One Liners by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    Those are no coins, those are tokens from Jacques E. Formage, the popular canadian pizza place and arcade combo!

    The same technology was once used by the Fox network to track hockey pucks in-game.

    They use it to track bears...bears who buy canadian beer.

    It's used to track if Gretzky's wife is gambling at the slot machine again.

    It's all a plot to try and locate Bob and Doug McKenzie since nobody has seen them in a while.

    If they were wireless devices, they'd operate under 802.11eh

  26. Common Cents by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Hey, we fingerprint all Canadians entering the US, soon to demand (RFID) passports from all of them, while our NSA is tapping their phones and email. Who knows what our CIA does up there.

    Since Americans are allergic to Canadian pennies now worth almost as much as ours, and dump them whenever we see them on our side of the border, these RFID trackers are relatively pretty benign.

    Maybe if we just all wound down the BS simcurity that pretends to protect us, and instead actually just destroyed us some Qaeda recruitment cells, the US dollar would become strong enough again that we wouldn't bother schlepping their Canadian coins back home, like pocket lint.

    --

    --
    make install -not war

    1. Re:Common Cents by ckd · · Score: 1

      It's better than that; the US is already issuing RFID passports of its own, and started doing so just a few months before the new passport requirements go into effect. Hmm, a new tracking technology and a mandate for more people to get a passport, at the same time? Why should they worry about coins, when they're making it easier to track their own folks already?

    2. Re:Common Cents by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 1
      True, as I just learned, most Canadians are not yet fingerprinted by US-VISIT. Though the new passport rules cranking up show that Bush is driving a useless security wedge between us as hard as he can. Still, there are some Canadians required to leave fingerprints (forever) with US-VISIT (and with whoever it leaks them to):

      Canadians who are subject to the US-VISIT process include:
      • Citizens of Canada applying for admission with a non-immigrant visa such as Canadian citizens with K visas (fiancés) and E visas (treaty trade investors).
      • Canadian permanent residents. Under U.S. regulations, Canadian permanent residents are identified by their citizenship (i.e., the nationality of the passport that they carry), not by the fact that they may be permanently residing in another country such as Canada.
      • Canadians with dual nationality who present a non-Canadian passport when seeking to enter the United States.

        Others who are subject to the US-VISIT process include:

      • Current Canadian permanent residents who are participants in NEXUS and/or FAST who may be required to enroll in US-VISIT when they renew their multiple entry Form I-94s.
      • Visitors renewing their multiple-entry Form I-94. All current, valid Form I-94s remain in effect. US-VISIT biometric collection requirements will be either at the time of the next issuance of the Form I-94 or at the discretion of the Customs and Border Protection Officer.
      --

      --
      make install -not war

  27. AAAIIIEEEE!!!! by Tool+Man · · Score: 1

    The polar bear, it watches me!

    Unlike your own president, we're not inspecting your post, just pocket lint. :)

  28. Re: by maroberts · · Score: 1, Flamebait

    the Canadian Dollar is close to reaching parity with the US Dollar.

    That statement is exactly the same as saying the Canadian Dollar is valueless. The US Dollar is on its way with reaching parity with zero. :-)

    --

    Donte Alistair Anderson Roberts - hi son!
    Karma: Chameleon

  29. It's actually a value added feature... by gwn · · Score: 4, Funny

    As the world knows it is cold up here in the Great White North eh! There is usually lots of snow too, eh! Well I can tell you from experience that with all our socialist programs we pay lots of taxes and as a result we don't often end up with folding money, eh! So when your coins go missing it really hurts, eh! Like when you lose a handful of coins in the deep snow, eh! So with RFID coins you just get the portable reader out and scan for the coins to find them, eh! Or, you scan your couch to see if you can afford to order in a pizza with back bacon, eh! You walk in to Harvey's (like McDonald's but much better) and they scan you on the way in and let you know what you can afford, eh!

    1. Re:It's actually a value added feature... by HTH+NE1 · · Score: 1

      So with RFID coins you just get the portable reader out and scan for the coins to find them,

      I gotta tell ya, it'd be great for those guys selling consumer-grade metal detectors. Now you really can see how much money is in the ground before you dig it up!

      --
      Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?
  30. Accidental Perhaps? by HighOrbit · · Score: 2, Interesting
    The article didn't specify if the RFID chips were adhered to the surface of the coin or somehow implanted in the coin itself. An internally implanted chip would be nefarious, but a surface adhesion could be accidental. In the case of an internal implant, since the reading would be local, they would most likely be used to figure out the coming-and-goings of a few locations (i.e. stake out a building and see how many readings you get during certain hours), or perhaps to tell when somebody is NOT in their hotel room, so the place could be searched or laptop with sensitive information pilfered.

    Assuming that it was adhered, I could conceive how it could be accidental.
    1. spill coffee on pants on way to conferece
    2. stop at chain store to buy new pants
    3. chain store uses RFID to track inventory, puts small tag in pants pockets of stock
    4. tag seperates from cloths and adhers to pocket contents
  31. Defence? by RingDev · · Score: 1, Troll

    Is this some odd Canadian spelling of Defense? At first I just thought it was a type-o or a missed spell check, but ever place in the article that the word is used, it is spelled with a 'c'.

    -Rick

    --
    "Most people in the U.S. wouldn't know they live in a tyrannical state if it walked up and grabbed their junk." - MyFirs
    1. Re:Defence? by etherlad · · Score: 1

      Yes, "defence" is an odd Canadian spelling of "defense," if by that, you mean "is defense an odd American spelling of 'defence'?"

      Defence-with-a-c is far more common worldwide and precedes the usage of defense-with-an-s.

      --
      Soylens viridis homines es
    2. Re:Defence? by Rob+the+Bold · · Score: 1
      Is this some odd Canadian spelling of Defense?

      They use British spelling, like "colour", "humour", and "motour". Apologies to Dave Barry.

      --
      I am not a crackpot.
    3. Re:Defence? by danpat · · Score: 1

      Canada, being part of the British Commonwealth, tends to use British spelling for stuff. Defence vs Defense, Licence vs License, Colour vs Color, Cheque vs Check, Tyre vs Tire, etc....

      Extensive further references available here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_English

      Note: I am Australian, we spell much like the Canadians.

    4. Re:Defence? by camperdave · · Score: 3, Informative

      Tire is definitely spelled with an i here in Canada.

      --
      When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
    5. Re:Defence? by mandelbr0t · · Score: 1

      My favourite part is that Canadian spelling actually dictates that you can mix and match. I typically keep the 'u' in unless I'm writing specifically to an American (no point in being different for the sake of being different, usually).

      mandelbr0t

      --
      "Please describe the scientific nature of the 'whammy'" - Agent Scully
    6. Re:Defence? by PigIronBob · · Score: 1

      It is called proper English...

      --
      You never catch me alive
    7. Re:Defence? by Ced_Ex · · Score: 1

      You mean like in "Canadian Tire"?

      --
      Live forever, or die trying.
    8. Re:Defence? by bitingduck · · Score: 2, Funny

      You mean like in "Canadian Tire"?

      And the reason they're keeping the denominations secret is that the bugs were actually found in Canadian Tire money.

    9. Re:Defence? by Bob-taro · · Score: 1
      but ever place in the article that the word is used, it is spelled with a 'c'.
      ... really, in ever place? It's a good thing /. is full of grammar and spelling nazis, so these things don't go unnoticed!
      --
      Prov 9:8 Do not rebuke mockers or they will hate you; rebuke the wise and they will love you.
    10. Re:Defence? by Ontology42 · · Score: 1

      No, it's actually supposed to be that way. We have to keep the french happy otherwise they will separate and take all the wood and electircal power with them. Which we don't mind, however we do like the french ladies. ;)

    11. Re:Defence? by legojenn · · Score: 1

      It's défense in French. We are just pissing the French off by using a 'c'.

      --
      I make a reasonable middle-class wage by going to work and not spamming blogs with scams.
  32. I put it down to Aliens by maroberts · · Score: 2, Funny

    The metal based aliens simply made a mistake and implanted their tracking devices in what they thought was the dominant life form on the planet. OTOH, maybe money is the dominant life form....

    --

    Donte Alistair Anderson Roberts - hi son!
    Karma: Chameleon

  33. Re:Looks like... by compro01 · · Score: 1

    well, we'll be coordinated anyway.

    --
    upon the advice of my lawyer, i have no sig at this time
  34. At last ... by cpu_fusion · · Score: 1

    ... W has found a basis for invading Canada. ;-)

    Just joking... /ducks.

    1. Re:At last ... by PinkPanther · · Score: 1
      Interesting....US NSA, spying on US defense contractors travelling abroad, inadvertently cause war with Canada.

      A movie plot??

      --
      It's a simple matter of complex programming.
  35. Latest development by matt+me · · Score: 1

    RMS seen with foil wallet.

    Black books: "These books sir, are they real leather? I have to have real leather to go with the sofa. I'll give you 20 pounds for them."
    "Are they leather-bound pounds? I want leather-bound pounds to go with my wallet."

  36. It's the Queen by (void*)cheerio · · Score: 1

    Well, I'm sure you all know that us Canadians are terribly conceited, specially when it comes to civil rights and all that, and espcially when comparing ourselves with the Americans.

    Ergo, the bugs can't possibly be planted there by our government! Impossible!

    I bet it's the Brits!

    You see, the way the monarchy and the Commenwealth are all setup, every year our mint imports the small slabs of metal with the Queen's head on them from the UK. They have to be minted their, by order of King Edward II. When our mint makes the coin, we make everything except the Queen's relief, and then solder the important british slab to our coin.

    I have a firm belief that the bugs are part of the important relief.

    1. Re:It's the Queen by Dunbal · · Score: 1

      I bet it's the Brits!

            No, the Brits would have had tiny tiny CCTV cameras on the coins which, incidentally, would send their owners speeding tickets in the mail...

      --
      Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
  37. Because its Looney ! by HighOrbit · · Score: 1

    The crazy dude on the corner...screaming about how the birds are spying on him makes a bit more sense now.....

    So, that's why the call it the "Loonie"!.

  38. Another fine example of military "inteligence" by Maury+Markowitz · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Can anyone here imagine a better way to make an RFID useless than putting it in the middle of a coin? And then after making these magical coins, apparently the same super-spies went all over the US and installed readers at every sensitive plant. Without anyone noticing. Wow, with spies like that, who needs bugged money?

    The sad part about this is that someone believed it.

    Maury

    1. Re:Another fine example of military "inteligence" by Dunbal · · Score: 1

      The sad part about this is that someone believed it.

            Bush certainly did, which is why the US will soon launch a surprise attack on us Canadians. Admit it - he's been wanting to do this for a very long time, at least since his proposal to militarize the US/Canada border. About time the US teaches Canada a lesson, eh?

      --
      Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
    2. Re:Another fine example of military "inteligence" by Ced_Ex · · Score: 1

      If you guys are going to invade, could you start with Quebec first?

      --
      Live forever, or die trying.
    3. Re:Another fine example of military "inteligence" by Beryllium+Sphere(tm) · · Score: 1

      >Can anyone here imagine a better way to make an RFID useless than putting it in the middle of a coin?

      Since you made a challenge of it, the magnetron cavity of a microwave oven would be more useless.

  39. Social Experiment by rsilvergun · · Score: 1

    It's probably just some engineering nerd's Social Experiment. Maybe see if he can get the coins back at some point.

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
  40. A Day In The Life Of A Twoonie by ackthpt · · Score: 5, Funny

    • 0700 In Harry's Pocket
    • 0734 Tim Horton's for Coffee and Apple Fritter
    • 0756 Change for Mary's purchase of Coffee and Scone
    • 0810 Given to sad looking homeless man to buy food with
    • 0812 In Beer Store register
    • 1217 Change for Robert's purchase of something to drink with lunch
    • 1259 In the till at Tim Horton's for coffee and donut
    • 1349 Change for Alice's purchase of coffee
    • 1412 Given to sad looking homeless man to buy food with
    • 1425 Placed on two dollar bet for Murray's Little Girl to show in the 3rd race
    • 1446 Paid out to Harry for bet on Mum's De Woid to win in the 3rd race

    i see a trend here, eh.

    --

    A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
    1. Re:A Day In The Life Of A Twoonie by digidave · · Score: 4, Funny

      "i see a trend here, eh."

      Yes, this is obviously a clever ploy for the Canadian government to discover where all the Tim Horton's restaurants are located.

      --
      The global economy is a great thing until you feel it locally.
    2. Re:A Day In The Life Of A Twoonie by fracex · · Score: 1

      Couldn't they just use google maps like the rest of us?

    3. Re:A Day In The Life Of A Twoonie by dangitman · · Score: 1
      • 1530 Harry's child finds coin, puts it on the railway track like he saw on Mythbusters
      • 1700 memorial service for twoonie
      --
      ... and then they built the supercollider.
    4. Re:A Day In The Life Of A Twoonie by dangitman · · Score: 1

      Eh? Is google some kind of beer or something? We Canadians don't drink American beer, else he'd look like hosers.

      --
      ... and then they built the supercollider.
    5. Re:A Day In The Life Of A Twoonie by alienmole · · Score: 1

      I wouldn't call it muddy, it's more the color of pee. Which, based on the taste, may not be a coincidence.

    6. Re:A Day In The Life Of A Twoonie by fxxkin$ · · Score: 1

      Why don't they just ask the local police? I think we need to spend xx millions of dollars to improve communications between agencies.

      A few years ago a radio station in Ontario had a contest where they would call up a random tim hortons. A caller would have to guess if there was a cop there or not. More often than not there was.

    7. Re:A Day In The Life Of A Twoonie by legojenn · · Score: 1

      Finding Tim Horton's is easy. Close your eyes and throw a rock. Where it lands is either a Tim Horton's or a future Tim Hortons location.

      --
      I make a reasonable middle-class wage by going to work and not spamming blogs with scams.
    8. Re:A Day In The Life Of A Twoonie by NobodyExpects · · Score: 1

      Yes, this is obviously a clever ploy for the Canadian government to discover where all the Tim Horton's restaurants are located. They don't need to use RFID coins for that, they just need to follow the Mounties...
  41. It's the Canadian Secret Service by plopez · · Score: 1

    There after the President's analyst!

    --
    putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
    1. Re:It's the Canadian Secret Service by Pizentios · · Score: 1

      Heh, that would be http://www.csis-scrs.gc.ca/, although they are more like the CIA in reguards to their responsibilities....as they are more responsible for stuff outside the country. The RCMP is (see: http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/ for more info about them) is the closest thing we (Canadian's) have to the Secret Service. although, seeing as they pretty much helped condem a man to jail and torcher in Syria for a few years i don't really trust them...see more here: http://www.ararcommission.ca/eng/, not to talk about how there have been several people in Canada recently released out of jail because they were convicted wrongly for murder.

      --
      -Pizentios
    2. Re:It's the Canadian Secret Service by plopez · · Score: 1

      I knew someone would miss it! That was part of the fun. See:
      http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0062153/

      a cheesy spoof of the James Bond genre movies of the 60's. The 'Canadian Secret Service' plays a pivotal role...

      --
      putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
  42. Useless RFID? by cez · · Score: 1

    I keep reading comments saying how useless the RFIDs would be now...anyone bother to think that perhaps they've already been used? How are we supposed to know the original intent? Its the fact that they were there to begin with, not that they aren't much use now or after they've been spent, and that they wouldn't have been created without a purpose in mind...

    --
    Walk with Music;
  43. Interac foolishness. by sherpajohn · · Score: 1

    I saw someone in Ikea last weekend buy a 2.59 item with Interac. I mean come on, whats the service fee on that? $1 or $1.50? Thats quite a markup for the convenience of paying with plastic.

    --

    Going on means going far
    Going far means returning
    1. Re:Interac foolishness. by camperdave · · Score: 1

      There are no service fees for Interac point of sale purchases.

      --
      When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
    2. Re:Interac foolishness. by Tack · · Score: 1

      Depends on the location. Some stores will push a service charge if the purchase is under a certain amount (usually $5.00).

    3. Re:Interac foolishness. by digidave · · Score: 1

      They may push the service charge, but their contract with the bank/Moneris/other service provider specifically prohibits this. If you report them they will be warned and continued violations will get their account suspended.

      Credit cards do the same thing. Stores are not allowed to charge the service fee back to customers by increasing the price on credit card purchases, but because of a loophole they are allowed to give a cash discount, which is something you see at a lot of small computer stores.

      --
      The global economy is a great thing until you feel it locally.
    4. Re:Interac foolishness. by maddskillz · · Score: 1

      That depends on your bank plan. Some only allow a limited number of free transactions. That's why it's better you use a credit card

    5. Re:Interac foolishness. by ceoyoyo · · Score: 1

      Or get a better bank.

    6. Re:Interac foolishness. by maddskillz · · Score: 1

      Credit card still seems easier, when you consider you get other options, like cash back and extended warranty.

    7. Re:Interac foolishness. by ceoyoyo · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Maybe. I've noticed that most people aren't able to use credit cards properly. Getting denied when they run out of money seems to work much better than getting denied a few thousand dollars after they run out of money. Of course, that's how credit card companies make a profit.

    8. Re:Interac foolishness. by Tack · · Score: 1
      They may push the service charge, but their contract with the bank/Moneris/other service provider specifically prohibits this. If you report them they will be warned and continued violations will get their account suspended.

      Nice, I didn't know this. Do you have any specific sources for reference so I have some ammunition?

    9. Re:Interac foolishness. by maddskillz · · Score: 1

      Most people are stupid. There is really nothing I can do about this

  44. There's not a chance that this is real. by Beardo+the+Bearded · · Score: 1, Interesting

    I'm just a lowly Electrical Engineer who works in RF.

    At my last job, we made transmitters. Some of them were really small - small enough to be surgically implanted into fish or ducks. It was cutting edge stuff; I had to work with the manufacturers to work out bugs in the chips, compilers, and programmers.

    There is no way that a working transmitter can be fitted into a mockup coin. You'll have to have some kind of processor. The 10F202 is really small, coming in at about 2mm x 4mm x 2 mm, plus a little extra for the leads. Next we'll add the required RF circuitry, like the tuning and bypass capacitors, amplifiers, etc. We'll neglect voltage regulators and other things, but you're looking at more parts than what will fit in a toonie.

    We'll assume that no board is being used, since that alone will negate the chance of a coin being used.

    Let's assume an 800MHz signal. Why? Well, why not? That's going to give a 4-inch antenna. Let's assume a 24-gauge wire with a very small insulator, giving it almost negligible displacement. If you wrap this up inside the coin, you're going to have - quite frankly - fuck all for range. I guess you could run the wire on the outside of the coin, but you're not going to have much luck. Internal antennae just don't work very well.

    Then you have a battery - oh, whoops, no more room.

    So how does this work, again?

    --

    ---
    ECHELON is a government program to find words like bomb, jihad, plutonium, assassinate, and anarchy.
    1. Re:There's not a chance that this is real. by Sibko · · Score: 1

      I'm just a lowly Electrical Engineer who works in RF. At my last job, we made transmitters. Some of them were really small - small enough to be surgically implanted into fish or ducks. It was cutting edge stuff; I had to work with the manufacturers to work out bugs in the chips, compilers, and programmers. So how does this work, again?
      Well, you're the electrical engineer. How would you make an RFID chip that fit in a coin? Rather than pointing out how it cannot, point out how it can.
    2. Re:There's not a chance that this is real. by JazzHarper · · Score: 4, Informative

      RFID does not require a processor or battery. Consumer RFID devices for
      implantation in animals (Pet-ID, HomeAgain) are about the size of a grain
      of rice.

    3. Re:There's not a chance that this is real. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      You're so right. There's no way to shrink electronics.

    4. Re:There's not a chance that this is real. by Abcd1234 · · Score: 1, Insightful

      You're quite the engineer if you can't understand the difference between a passive RFID device and an active RF transmitter.

    5. Re:There's not a chance that this is real. by gad_zuki! · · Score: 1

      COnsidering how sketchy the details are in the article, and if this isnt a hoax, it sounds like theyre hinting at an rfid, which you know can be very small. I hear theres even one in my new passport!

    6. Re:There's not a chance that this is real. by Chicken04GTO · · Score: 1

      Your comment is the perfect definition of a Slashdot comment. Someone who appears to know WTF they are talking about, but in reality hasn't a god damned clue. RFID's do NOT transmit! They do not contain their own power supply! They just react to an externally powered transmission. Take your fancy RF experience and trade it in for just a little dab of common sense.

    7. Re:There's not a chance that this is real. by bigberk · · Score: 2, Interesting

      That's of course true, the whole idea of RFID chips is they are inductively powered and don't have to carry their own power source.

      (I happen to be a Canadian RFID researcher, of all things)

      But the article sounds like BS to me. Let's say the coins did have an RFID chip on their surface, perhaps in one of the quarters with a poppy cut-out in the center (or the two dollar coin which also has a center that can come out). What would you DO with the "spy chip"? You're going to record audio or video? Fine... then do what with it? You don't have enough space to store it, and you can only transmit it a few feet away.

      It might be a practical way to track where coins go, but I can't see how it could be used to "spy". It's really no different than say a serial number stamped on currency, which we do have on paper bills. I just don't see the point.

    8. Re:There's not a chance that this is real. by Beardo+the+Bearded · · Score: 2, Insightful

      How are you going to covertly track someone with RFID?

      If you want to track someone, you've got to either broadcast the info or walk up to them with the RFID scanner.

      If you're walking up to them with the RFID scanner, you already know where they are.

      --

      ---
      ECHELON is a government program to find words like bomb, jihad, plutonium, assassinate, and anarchy.
    9. Re:There's not a chance that this is real. by Beryllium+Sphere(tm) · · Score: 1

      It's good to have information from someone in the field, but people were building radio transmitters long before they were building processors, you could use a shorter than resonant antenna (at the cost of desperately needed effiency, true), and the antenna could be a slot instead of a wire, backfilled with colored plastic to match the coin.

    10. Re:There's not a chance that this is real. by theLOUDroom · · Score: 1

      I'm just a lowly Electrical Engineer who works in RF.

      So am I.

      There is no way that a working transmitter can be fitted into a mockup coin.

      Sorry, but you're dead wrong here.

      You'll have to have some kind of processor.

      No you don't. Although some people may find it hard to believe there are tons of electronic devices that have no computers in them at all.

      It's actually really easy and really simple to build a small AM transmitter. You're talking less than ten parts. This doesn't even consider more exotic possibilities such as the "Great Seal Bug".

      So how does this work, again?

      Money. Lots and lots of money.
      Think custom battery, and construction techniques similar to a MMIC.
      I think you need to understand the type of resources a gov't can put towards projects like this.

      If I was to build something like this, I'd have a guy designing the battery, a guy making cases, a guy designing the antenna, and a guy doing the actual circuitry.
      -The battery guy would give me the highest energy density in the smallest package he could. It would probably be some custom lithium manganese dioxidecell.
      -The case guy would take pairs of coins and mill them down to half thickness, then mill out a cavity inside each one.
      -The antenna guy would design something similar to a Yaego 4311-127-00500. (Digikey part 311-1230-1-ND) The size for that part is only 3.5mm x 2.7mm x 0.9mm.
      -The circuitry guy would probably be fabbing a custom IC.

      Months later, take all these parts, hook them toghether, glue the coin shut and hand it off.
      You could probably do $4 million for a thousand bugs. I'd suggest that's easily within the price range of any first world nation.

      Sure it's not something I could accomplish on the weekends with no budget, but you just needed to apply some imagination to the situation.

      --
      Life is too short to proofread.
    11. Re:There's not a chance that this is real. by Crudely_Indecent · · Score: 1

      If you RTFA, they present a kidnapping scenario.

      Imagine that you dump a handful of these coins on a single person. You could reliably track that person until he got rid of all but a few of the coins. Use this information to determine the location of a person for kidnapping, assassination, reliable location information during a hotel room search (i.e. "Subject is still in the coffee shop talking to our blonde decoy, make an image of his hard drive")

      RFID technology in money isn't a new concept. EETimes reported that the European Central Bank announced in 2001 that by 2005 their money would contain RFID technology.

      --


      "Lame" - Galaxar
  45. Crap by plopez · · Score: 1

    I misspelled 'They're'.... I need to slow down.

    --
    putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
  46. Re:Logical course of action? Invade Canada! by Zeek40 · · Score: 2, Funny

    Little known fact: Ever since Dudley Do-Right made his first appearance on television, Americans have been terrified of Mounties. So long as Canadia keeps its Mounties along the border, you will be safe.

  47. Re:my guess by terrymr · · Score: 1

    They may not have printed any for a while, but new $2 bills are still being put into circulation. They disappear just as fast because they're such a novelty.

  48. Fingerprint who? by sherpajohn · · Score: 1

    No, Canadian entering the US are not fingerprinted. At least not yet, and from what I have read, its not planned to go in with the mandatory passports when entering the US via plane or boat.

    --

    Going on means going far
    Going far means returning
    1. Re:Fingerprint who? by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 1

      It seems that most Canadians are not currently fingerprinted, though some already are. We don't know what's "planned" by Bush's simcurity state - and neither, very often, does the state. But increasing "security" requirements, like new passport requirements, show that we're headed for more wasteful theatrics. Fingerprints will be among the least of the ridiculous gestures with damaging consequences.

      --

      --
      make install -not war

    2. Re:Fingerprint who? by mindstrm · · Score: 1

      Canadian tourists are not subject to US-VISIT because Canada is not a visa-waiver country. Canadians don't need a visa, however, the right of Canadians to enter the US comes from a completely different set of legislation as that for the rest of the world.

  49. Just a trick to get Yanks to donate coins by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 1

    out of paranoia.

    CSIS couldn't fight their way out of a weathered sopping paper bag, even if they had a pair of scissors.

    But you never heard it from me. And if I had held a SECRET clearance in Canada, I'd have to pretend I didn't know what I don't know.

    --
    -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
  50. Re:my guess by SilverJets · · Score: 2, Interesting

    They probably got one of those poppy quarters from a few years ago and figured the painted on poppy was a listening device. I say produce the coins so the public and Canadian officials can see them or shut up. This has to be one of the most retarded stories I've read in awhile....transmitters in our coins....sheesh!!

  51. Coin=Faraday Cage? by Normal_Deviate · · Score: 1

    How can this work? It is hard to imagine that an RFID antenna could receive a microwave signal inside a solid metal coin, and anything sticking to the outside of a coin would be pretty obvious. Maybe the coin is just two metal faces on a plastic wafer, with the joints hidden in the ridges around the edge. (examines pocket change)

    1. Re:Coin=Faraday Cage? by Shadyman · · Score: 1

      Yes, it would become an antenna, assuming metal-to-metal contact, but it would be at the wrong frequency, and they'd get whacked by Industry Canada (think Canadian FCC)

  52. It's Time.. by JohnnyOpcode · · Score: 1

    BOMB CANADA!

    They got oil, water, hot-french lap-dancers, hockey, Tim-Hortons, lumber, beer, health-care, hot-french lap-dancers (again for effect), and comedians galore. They have an extensive nuclear program, yet they have not tested or exploded any nuclear devices which leads one to infer that they may be up to something sinister. Remember 1812, I knew that would wake you up to this northern threat.

    Consider yourself informed, write the president, your senator, your congresswoman. We need to take swift action now!

  53. Or it's a joke... by jbeaupre · · Score: 1

    You comment reminded of when we used to sneak security strips into friend's backpacks. Usually at the school library. Watching them get searched by the librarian was a rare highlight in an otherwise dull day.

    Sooo...

    Maybe someone is just yanking the chain of some Yanks. Plant them on the change of some folks who might detect them, then watch for the fireworks.

    --
    The world is made by those who show up for the job.
    1. Re:Or it's a joke... by PezJunkie42 · · Score: 1

      We tried that once with the "Young Man's Guide to Sex" in somebody's backpack.

      Strangely, he made it out the door without triggering the alarm... Wonder if he still has that?

    2. Re:Or it's a joke... by dangitman · · Score: 1

      I heard he went on to become a porn star.

      --
      ... and then they built the supercollider.
  54. Obligatory Simpsons Quote by tim_three · · Score: 1

    Wiggum: What do you got, the whole town's DNA on file? DNA guy: Y'uh huh. If you've ever handled a penny, the government's got your DNA. Why do you think they keep 'em in circulation?

  55. Sounds like something the US would do. by PAjamian · · Score: 1

    Attempting to track its people in a completely useless way that probably wastes billions of dollars? I bet the DHS is wishing they thought of this first.

    --
    Windows is a bonfire, Linux is the sun. Linux only looks smaller if you lack perspective.
  56. On the subject of RFIDs by CODiNE · · Score: 1

    Anybody find more info on the claims a certain Slashdotter made about a TREAD act a few months ago? Basically he claimed that all tires sold in the US get tracked with an RFID chip and that tire companies report back to the govt so they know which tires to match to which cars.

    Also part of his claim was that there are imbedded RFID readers in certain NY turnpike locatations.

    I think it's easy enough to verify those claims, anybody got an RFID detector? Just scan tires and see if any return a code. In the same way I think this report can be easily verified by checking Canadian currency and seeing if it gives off a reading of any kind.

    I guess the problem is that RFIDs aren't required to be stupid and simply return a code automatically, more intelligent ones could be made that get power from the inductive field and then silently wait for the right code before they respond. THOSE RFID's would be tough as heck to discover.

    --
    Cwm, fjord-bank glyphs vext quiz
  57. Gross! by Weaselmancer · · Score: 2, Funny

    The coins may have been given in some immoral/illegal situation by Canada's equivalent of the CIA. Perhaps by one posing as a prostitute?

    I believe you're implying that a Canadian prostitute is worth less than a dollar. "Here's yer fifty cents change, honey."

    --
    Weaselmancer
    rediculous.
    1. Re:Gross! by Taeolas · · Score: 1

      2$ actually. That's our largest coin denomination, and possibly the 'easiest', I would think, to slip a transmitter into since it's a 2-metal coin and the largest common coin we have.

    2. Re:Gross! by HTH+NE1 · · Score: 2, Funny

      So, word to the wise: only solicit the Exact-Change-Only prostitutes. (You have no idea where that toonie's been!)

      --
      Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?
  58. Re:You don't know? by sentientbeing · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The article didnt specify what the bug actually did

    Im speculating, but I imagine it would not be impossible to minuturise an RFID reader to fit inside a coin with the intention to copy the RFID identity card which a defence contractor may carry on his person (In his pocket?). An attacker would then need to obtain the coin with the recorded ID information, I suppose.
    It would be a simple matter to recreate the ID card giving an attacker access to a secured installation.

    --

    ------
    beware he who would deny you access to information, for in his mind he dreams himself your master
  59. I guess you could call bugged money... by rbrander · · Score: 1

    ...a penny for your thoughts.

  60. Offtopic but... by git68 · · Score: 1

    Judging by the quality of MOAB's i'm surprised this isn't in there as well

    --
    sigpending(2)
  61. easy by kurtis25 · · Score: 1

    I see a few benefits This makes it easy to count change at the store. Imagine being able to dump a bottle of change down at the bank and get an instant receipt. Even better imagine being able to dump the coins out of your ash tray into the McDonald's drive through and have it count what it needs and return what it doesn't. This will no doubt speed up the counting of coins. Your ash tray can now count your change for you and let you know that you still only have pennies to your name. With an RFID reader you can know which coworker is hiding change in his or her desk so know who to ask for change to buy a soda. You can search for loose change in your couch without lifting the cushions.

  62. probably legitimate research by rucs_hack · · Score: 1

    Probably it was a bit of research to establish how widely distributed a crop of coins gets. That's actually interesting/useful info.

    Small change is replaced by working out the average loss rate, and setting replacement creation to match. I imagine that by tagging some coins they would add another dimension to their information regarding coin usage/attrition.

    Sort of like radio tagging fish to see where they turn up, only without the fish, or the radio tags.

    Bad example...

  63. Re:my guess by ninjaz · · Score: 1

    My guess is that it was the Remembrance Day colorized poppy quarter. Not only do they have the strange rough surface in the center, they are also painted red. It is the oddest Canadian coin I have ever come across, anyway.

  64. NOT an RFID is my bet. by Ungrounded+Lightning · · Score: 5, Interesting

    For the life of me, I can't figure a reason that somebody would do this. Coins change hands quickly and RFID has a pretty limited range.

    If you RTFA article closely you'll see that the souce told the press that transmitters were found in coins.

    Then (in paragraph 11) reporter notes that the type of transmitter was not disclosed. In paragraph 12 he starts speculating about RFID. The rest of the article (and possibly part of the preceeding section - along with the Slashdot headline) is based on the unfounded assumption that the transmitter IS an RFID-type device.

    Which strikes me as totally bogus.

    IMHO it's more likely that the "transmitter" found is a remotely-powered area audio bug, like "The Great Seal Bug", the martini fake olive bug, or the "diodes in the wall" bugs. Planted on a person it would bug his conversations and those around him until he spent it - hours or days later. (As you can imagine from the martini-olive bug, which is only useful while the spy is toting the martini, in some situations long-term bugging is an unnecessary bonus.)

    Such bugs can be simple: A shaped cavity with a flexible membrane over it is one way to do it - the cavity resonates, giving a strong reflection, while the sound modulates the cavity's effectiveness, AMing the reflection. Another is just to fasten a diode to something that can be vibrated by sound. The diode frequency-doubles the reflected signal or mixes two of them to produce the sum and difference frequencies (sorting the diode's reflection from most ordinary reflections) and the vibration of it along the line between the bug and the monitor phase-modulates the return with the local audio. No fancy circuitry or local power supplies necessary.

    I presume this one did involve at least a diode, or some semiconductor circuitry, since it was found in a radio scan - which is often done by looking for the frequency-multiplying and/or frequency mixing effect of diodes / semiconductor junctions. Finding a pure cavity resonator bug - or even identifying what it is when you have it - is a bitch.

    Bugging the audio at a conference, or the conversations of a contractor at work on classified projects, would be worth planting a bug on him and having it there for only a few hours. After that, if he "spends" it, so what? (At least until they are noticed and a way found to identify them BEFORE the conversations to be monitored.)

    --
    Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
    1. Re:NOT an RFID is my bet. by GWBasic · · Score: 2, Insightful

      My guess is that the bug was "planted" by the coin being placed directly in the contractor's pocket. This could occur when someone casually bumps into the contractor. As a result, the bug is hard to detect. Let's face it, if you found a coin in a random pocket, would you suspect that it's a bug?

    2. Re:NOT an RFID is my bet. by pla · · Score: 2, Informative

      Let's face it, if you found a coin in a random pocket, would you suspect that it's a bug?

      If you had a pocket-full of US currency and suddently a twonie appeared mixed in? Yeah, I think that could raise some eyebrows...

    3. Re:NOT an RFID is my bet. by Bananatree3 · · Score: 1

      While the actual recording may be bad, that isn't an issue as long as the expert intelligence audio specialist can decipher what is being said. I once accidentally had a voice recorder in my pocket start recording while I talking, and I could clearly hear my voice as well as the person right next to me that I was talking to (barely). As long as there isn't much background noise, and you are using a -very- good microphone (which I figure an intelligence agency would use), it should be possible.

    4. Re:NOT an RFID is my bet. by GWBasic · · Score: 1

      Every year or so I find a Canadian coin in my pocket. A lot of people just pass of their loose pocket change when returning to the states.

    5. Re:NOT an RFID is my bet. by Spacejock · · Score: 1

      I keep my change in the same pocket, and have done for decades. If a single coin turned up in any of my other pockets I'd know for certain I hadn't put it there. I go ask my kids if it was theirs, they'd say yes, and the bug-ees would get several days of Pokemon nonsense to listen to.

    6. Re:NOT an RFID is my bet. by Calinous · · Score: 1

      There are limits in performance imposed by the physical size of the object (microphones and lenses are two examples). However, I think they use the best microphones possibles inside that envelope

    7. Re:NOT an RFID is my bet. by Calinous · · Score: 1

      By looking at someone while at shopping, you can find in which pocket he stores money. I wouldn't be surprised to find a coin in the pocket where I keep my wallet - as coins sometimes fall on their own from the wallet in that pocket.

    8. Re:NOT an RFID is my bet. by Ungrounded+Lightning · · Score: 1

      There are limits in performance imposed by the physical size of the object (microphones and lenses are two examples).

      Size limits the directionality of a microphone. But it can get down to the micrometer scale before its size limits it ability to accurately sense air pressure or velocity variations at audio rates. (Even then the problem is just noise from thermal agitation due to a small number of molecules to sample.)

      Look at the microphones in modern cellphones: They're the size of a chip capacitor - about like a bit snapped off the end of a piece of spaghetti or a thin noodle - with a sensing hole comparable to the diameter of an automatic pencil lead. And that's nowhere near the limit.

      Even a small coin is enormous by comparison.

      However, I think they use the best microphones possibles inside that envelope

      That depends on your definition of "best". B-) "Best for the purpose", no doubt. But they may sacrifice things like sound quality for other factors - like no need for powering the microphone, for instance.

      Fortunately for the designers, they don't need directionality. The orientation of the coin will be random with respect to the direction to each speaker, so an omnidirectional microphone is the best fit. Those are very easy to make tiny.

      --
      Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
  65. The real reason? by auroran · · Score: 1

    Considering all my loonies get thrown to the strippers as tips, (to them not at them :) )
    all they would be able to do is track which dancers I've seen recently. So government agencies would therefore have no idea that I go to the peelers.

    I think there's something a bit flawed in that logic.

    1. Re:The real reason? by glenstar · · Score: 1

      Thank you for this post. I have been long wondering what Chixdiggit meant by the song "Going to the Peelers". I always assumed it was some Canadian version of NASCAR. Now I know much better and the song makes a bit more sense.

  66. Tracking by Aneurysm · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Maybe its just something simple like they added chips to a small sample of coins in order to track them round the mint.

    Adding them to any processes after other coins are struck might allow them to see any bottlenecks in the factory line and therefore improve the flow of coins.

    Just an idea, seems more sensible than being used to track a person, because the chips probably had a low detection range, and coins change hands so quickly as other people have pointed out.

    1. Re:Tracking by Traf-O-Data-Hater · · Score: 1

      This idea doesn't sound plausible to me. For one thing, they could track a coin in a mint more easily by just using a coloured coin and monitor it with tracking cameras, no need for any fuddy-duddy RFID stuff. The other is that any such tracking coins would be taken from the production line and accounted for long before they had a chance to get into circulation. Mints aren't amateurs, they have to have a degree of quality assurance that is above the norm.

    2. Re:Tracking by Aneurysm · · Score: 1

      True, but what if part of the production line was maybe 3 coins deep? A tracking camera can't track coins that are buried by other coins. My idea was more of a it's not conspiracy/spy operation rather than a foolproof explanation.

  67. Re:Sorry, but the contractors had it coming by pnewhook · · Score: 1

    There are no moose on Canadian coins..

    The animals are Beaver, Caribou, Loon and Polar Bear..

    --
    Tesla was a genius. Edison however was a overrated hack who liked to torture puppies.
  68. Explains a lot by Foktip · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Im gonna guess that these coins were pennies, since nobody takes the time to ever give exact change, and vending machines dont accept them (usually).

  69. Re:Logical course of action? Invade Canada! by LordEd · · Score: 1

    You reminded me of one of our heritage videos.

  70. Re:Logical course of action? Invade Canada! by jahudabudy · · Score: 1

    What, and risk destroying a future Bryan Adams or Celine Dion? We Americans aren't complete monsters!

    --
    ...sometimes, in order to hurt someone very badly, you have to tell that person terrible lies. - PA
  71. Partial intel by PinkPanther · · Score: 1
    FTA: But the item about the Canadian coins item appeared to be the result of only partial intelligence.
    Why in the world does the Pentagon employ the partially intelligent?

    (I'm sure there will be follow-up posts about how the Pentagon only employs the partially intelligent.)

    --
    It's a simple matter of complex programming.
  72. The real reason by natoochtoniket · · Score: 1

    This is obviously a terrorist strike directly at the heart of the American intelligence and defense agencies. By placing a few bugging devices in coins and paper money, they trick the government into ordering that no coins or paper money may be carried into any sensitive areas.

    From that time forward, our intelligence and defense people are unable to buy coffee or lunch at the cafeteria in the building. Without coffee, our intelligence people are not able to function. And our defense people are unable to see straight enough to hit a target.

    ;-)

  73. Ready the troops!!! by wcu14531 · · Score: 1

    Finally!!!! A good reason to invade. Eh!

  74. Sleuth has figured it out by failedlogic · · Score: 1

    I propose that the Toonie is responsible. Its the only coin with two separate pieces. I believe the Mint produces regular non-tracking Toonies (RNTT) and when needed a trained technician replaces one of the pieces with a tracking device and the coin is then called a regular tracking device Toonie (RTDT). I think - and I can't tell from my initial investigation - but its either the outer piece or the inner one that could contain the transmitter. There's a problem though: I'm broke and do not have any RNTT or RTDT to complete my investigation.

  75. Spy Conventions? by Aqua_boy17 · · Score: 1
    From TFA:
    The service's report, Technology Collection Trends in the U.S. Defence Industry, says foreign-hosted conventions, seminars and exhibits are popular venues for pilfering secrets.
    Call me crazy, but I think when you go to the table at the front to register at the "Spy Convention", your cover's pretty much blown right there. Or does everyone there walk around with disquises or those funny Graucho Marx glasses and mustache?
    --
    What if the Hokey Pokey really is what it's all about?
    1. Re:Spy Conventions? by aadvancedGIR · · Score: 1

      Guess what? Not all intelligence agents are under cover, in fact, those are quite a minority.
      Homework: find the name of ten CIA employees. You'll see that is really easy, but most of the persons you will find spend most of their time in Langley or Washington and are not (or no longer) on the field. These are the kind of employees who go to those conventions.

  76. Good for a day at the most by MooseTick · · Score: 1

    This would be good for a day at the most for myself. I don't carry change. If I get some I put it in my pocket. Then the next time I'm at home or work I have a change bucket I toss it into. There it may sit for years until I get enough to go cash it in at a bank. Even when I travel, I usually dump the days contents onto the desk at my hotel. It will them end up in my suitcase until I get home.

    If you want to track me, follow my debit card. It would be way more effective.

  77. RFID is pure speculation by TheNicestGuy · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Let's be clear about a very important point in this article: It does not say that there were RFID tags in the coins. I quote: "...details of the incidents were classified. As a result, the type of transmitter in play -- and its ultimate purpose -- remain a mystery. However, tiny tracking tags, known as RFIDs, are commonly placed in everything..."

    Thus, it's only an unimaginative guess that the coins contained RFID. So the second half of the article, where security experts speculate on the purpose and effectiveness of RFID embedded in coins falls just short of making stuff up. It may or may not have anything to do with the actual events.

  78. it innocently help the merchants by wardk · · Score: 1

    they just needed some way for the canadian merchants to determine the monetary value of each coin.

    now they can scan them, and not be so confused

    it's loony

  79. loonie by ambrosius27 · · Score: 1

    That's just loonie.

    --

    ~~~~~~~~~
    dissertus scribendo latine videri volo.
  80. I know what kind of coins were involved... by ^_^x · · Score: 1

    Plastic ones! Considering RFID tags are blockable by a layer of common kitchen tinfoil, even if the chips survived the minting process, the signal would be blocked out completely. This allegation was made by someone with no technical understanding of how RFID even works. (Though I guess another kind of transmitter is theoretically possible if illogical for reasons stated in the article.)

    Thanks, US DoD, for coming up with a premise even dumber than hypothetical WMDs! I guess Canada's safe from invasion so long as there's someone with common sense to catch this crap.

  81. Probably $2 coins by wiredlogic · · Score: 1

    Presumably this is being done with the $2 Canadian coin since they are constructed from two pieces and it would be easier to modify the center plug without being noticed.

    --
    I am becoming gerund, destroyer of verbs.
  82. Thanks guys by Dragon_Hilord · · Score: 1

    Now our economy is sure to drop by a marginal amount because supposedly our coins are bad. I predict a drop in the CDN$ very soon thanks to this rumor.

    --
    Cheers, DH.
  83. In Soviet Canada by flyingfsck · · Score: 1

    coins bug you...

    Sorry, could not resist, eh.

    According to The Globe and Mail, this is all bullcrap actually.

    --
    Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
  84. Inflation & authentication by psb777 · · Score: 1

    Recently in the US it has become illegal to melt down the coinage. Reason: The metal content of the coins has become more valuable than the face value of the coin. What with the continuing rise in commodity prices (or the return of inflation (or the imminent collapse in the value of some currencies)) the primary reason for this microchipping of coins and notes (and this Canadian experiment) might just be authentication of the currency. As reported elsewhere: http://www.prisonplanet.com/022904rfidtagsexplode. html & http://www.eetimes.com/story/OEG20011219S0016

    Of course, there are surveillance "benefits" too.

    --
    Paul Beardsell
  85. Right! Next time try Polonium by littlewink · · Score: 1

    "For the life of me, I can't figure a reason that somebody would do this. Coins change hands quickly and RFID has a pretty limited range."

    Saves following them around looking for a chance to knock 'em off!-))

  86. According to the CBC... by Schraegstrichpunkt · · Score: 1

    ... nothing to see here. Move along.

  87. Possible Reason by lunch_box4 · · Score: 1
    http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNew s/20061120/new_token_061120?s_name=&no_ads=

    From the article: Transit security official Mark Russell said the coin "a unique electronic signature" that only TTC turnstiles can recognize.

    That's probably it. Someone got the new subway tokens to take home because they look so cool and got freaked out.

  88. currency circulations statistics? by apt_user · · Score: 1
    If these coins have imbedded RFID chips, they could be just part of a project by the Canadian Mint to get statistics about currency circulation. Put the chips on 10,000 coins and send them into circulation, then every time they come back to the bank they are noted by the computer and then sent back into circulation again. Partner with just a few major banks like CIBC, Royal, and TD and that would be it. Enough coins would get picked up at one branch or another over the space of a few years to create interesting data to graph. Right now, the only data the mint has about its coins is from examining worn-out coins pulled from circulation after (x) years.

    This data might not really be useful for anything, but Canadian government officials are great at coming up with stupid projects to waste tax dollars just so their department can get a bigger budget.

  89. This is something.... by suparjerk · · Score: 1

    ... I've had my suspicions that the USA has been doing for a few years.

    --
    I caught the Mountain Wumpus! He gave me his treasure chest ($100) to let him go free again.
  90. Re:Logical course of action? Invade Canada! by Pingmaster · · Score: 1

    Great, now there's going to be a slashdot article about how the US is planning to invade Canada..thanks

  91. Serious? by zexos · · Score: 1

    Sorry if this is a redundant reply, but I didn't see any mention of the obvious.

    For craps sake people, its so they can track the travel patterns of coins so they have an idea of how currency works. It's a brilliant idea in my opinion because there's no way to conclusively say who's carrying the coins at any given time, but they CAN read when each coin passes through certain checkpoints around the city.

    I'll add a little tangent here, but imagine if they had spy cameras around the city too? Then they could see you somewhere, check what coins your carrying, and use the videos to find out where you're exchanging money, and follow your change.

    Personally, I only use change for the bus and Tim Hortons ;)

  92. No way would RFID work in a coin by mikeselectricstuff · · Score: 1

    A passive RFID tag of the size that could be put in a coin would have a range of a few of inches max. If any of the 'coin' was still made of metal, the damping effect it would kill it stone dead - just wouldn't be detectable. If it wasn't metal, the lack of weight would make it immediately obvious.
    I small BS....

  93. Re:my guess by GreenHell · · Score: 1

    I personally find the Breast Cancer Ribbon quarter stranger, as they changed the colourising process from the poppy one. The colours no longer wear off as quickly with use, but it now feels like someone's stuck a sticker or something to it.

    --
    "I won't mod you down - I feel the need to call you a twit explicitly, rather than by implication."
  94. my guess... by Bananatree3 · · Score: 1
    To be honest, the farthest I think this thing could radiate is a very-few hundred feet, but I am no electrical engineer. The power output would not be much higher than a watt (at the very most), and most likely in the hundreds of milliwatts-range. That is, assuming it only transmitted every long while considering that the battery would have to be significantly tiny.

    The antenna could be no larger than at most an inch (with a toonie) or even a half-inch, which leaves very little to radiate with. Most likely it would be more effective to encase the radio in copper and then slide that into the hollowed out coin, using the copper casing as a radiator.

    As the article said, miniaturization is not an issue with the electronics. all the Logic, transmitter, etc. could be hard-wired into a tiny bit of silicon (never underestimate the resources of an intelligence agency, eh.).

    That is just a n00b's ideal coin bug, but I am sure someone out there might have more to add.

  95. More interesting than RFID by Cafe+Alpha · · Score: 1

    Some more interesting ideas than an RFID in a coin:

    A microphone, some solid state memory, and radio that would burst the recording on command.

    Someone could walk by you on the street and leach all of the audio recorded in a day in just a minute!

    Or a coin with a gieger counter and an RFID (or radio on command) that's capable of reporting the time and intensity of the last few large events.

    Plant these on people who you suspect of working on nukes or dirty bombs.

    Better yet (not sure how possible), add a geo-satelite locator to it and then it can record the time and place of any radiation.

  96. I call BS on this... by Zaatxe · · Score: 1

    I've never heard of an american that take coins... specially canadian ones!

    --
    So say we all
  97. modded Troll? by RingDev · · Score: 1

    Drat! I've been found out! My Canadian hate mongering is no longer secret! Burn in hell Canada! Down with the leaf! Hippies, the lot of ya!

    errr, yeah.

    -Rick

    --
    "Most people in the U.S. wouldn't know they live in a tyrannical state if it walked up and grabbed their junk." - MyFirs
  98. Re:Logical course of action? Invade Canada! by NobodyExpects · · Score: 1

    We're wondering why you haven't invaded us already, we sell you far more oil then any other country :) If you do, we promise not to burn the White House down again...
  99. Re:Sorry, but the contractors had it coming by AJWM · · Score: 1

    I seem to recall a fish on the dime for a while -- or was that the centennial version?

    Or has my medication worn off? ;-)

    --
    -- Alastair
  100. Re:Sorry, but the contractors had it coming by pnewhook · · Score: 1
    I seem to recall a fish on the dime for a while -- or was that the centennial version?

    The centennial coins from 1967 had a different set of animals - dove, rabbit, mackerel (fish), wilcat, wolf and goose.

    Here's a site with more than you've ever wanted to know about Canadian coins over tbe years: http://members.shaw.ca/kcic1/coins.html

    --
    Tesla was a genius. Edison however was a overrated hack who liked to torture puppies.
  101. Transit Tokens by spookyfluke · · Score: 1

    The Toronto Transit Commission just added RFID chips to their new transit tokens to prevent counterfeiting. It is possible that these are the coins in question.

    --
    you.bases.each{|base|base.are_belong_to=us}
  102. *** URBAN LEGEND WARNING *** by Harmonious+Botch · · Score: 1

    On Friday the 19th, the LA Times printed a correction that says this was an unfounded rumor among the gov't employees that somehow was taken seriously.