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Did Producer Timbaland Steal From the Demoscene?
gloom writes "In 2000 the Finnish demoscene musician Janne Suni (also known as 'Tempest') won the Oldskool Music Competition at the Assembly demoparty with his four-channel Amiga .MOD entitled 'Acid Jazzed Evening.' A Commodore 64 musician called 'grg' remade the song on the C64 (using the infamous SID soundchip); it is this that was stolen. The producer's name is Timbaland and he is one of the hottest names in American music these days. The track in question is called 'Do it' and it is featured on the Nelly Furtado album 'Loose' on the Geffen label. Getting nowhere with Geffen, the demoscene has now risen to the aid of Tempest, first by creating a stir at SomethingAwful (files downloadable from the forum), then at Digg.com, then on YouTube, with a video demonstrating the blatant ripoff. Being an online-posting musician myself — what rights do I have if this should ever happen to me, and what can be done to raise awareness about such things?"
Why is this news? Everyone knows that hip-hop is unoriginal to start with.
People please. There's a double-standard. Try to keep up with these things.
That's amazing. No doubt that the Furtado track ripped them off!
C'mon, he ripped off his name from a brand of outdoor clothing. Does ripping off a demoscene song surprise anyone?
Because there's something called Intellectual Property. I doubt you'd like it if I copied all your comments and posted them as my own unique thoughts. Writing songs that fit into a music style of a previous composer has nothing to do with blatantly copying somebody else's song without even giving them credit, let alone paying them any sort of royalty. And BTW, those hundreds of instrument designers get their money when you buy the instruments.
FFS keep this quiet!.... The RIAA (regular readers of /. I'm sure) will take notice and somehow manage to construct a legal argument meaning Timberlake gets to sue the Finnish artist for more than than the GDP of Finland. 7th Dimensional Copyright Theory or something.
Wouldn't be the first time.
When the posters fear their moderators, there is tyranny; when the moderators fears the posters, there is liberty.
How is the original author supposed to get any royalties when his works are posted all over the intarw3b.
God spoke to me.
Thousands of things are being ripped off every day. Frankly, there's no way to stop it and no way to prove it 99.99% of the time. Life just isn't fair, and nobody's trying to change it:) It's good that this guy was caught, but this is about as common as a somebody you know winning the $10,000,000 lottery. (And let's hope none of your friend use the "tax on stupidity") I love being the bearer of bad news. Try some forums if you really think you're being ripped off, but you'll be sued for slander before somebody like me reads your post:)
It's not stealing. It's "sampling." At least that's how they usually justify it...
The producer's name is Timbaland and he is one of the hottest names in American music these days.
timbaland? who the hell is that?
I ignore Anonymous Coward posts. If you want to discuss something, that's awesome. Log in.
Maybe it costs nothing to make in the first place, then it should be free, but this is never the case. Costing nothing to copy doesn't justify the copying in itself. Those trying to earn a living making creative works would have a much harder time doing so if other people can simply copy their works and not contribute to the artist's livelihood.
There's also a difference between taking from historical works and taking contemporary works. That distinction is in the limited ownership of works. If Geffen, a member of an organization that demands respect for the works that they sell, then they would be hypocritical to not also give that respect to other people's works.
You have no rights over your content once its been released.
I don't even know where to start with this.
- RIAA Representative
In other news, the estate of Elvis is reportedly suing all artists signed with RIAA labels due to their use of the "I-IV-V" progression.
I think that there are enough simple melodies polluting the "root melodyspace" to start producing spurious similarities.
--Rob
Towards the Singularity.
Thank you Timbaland, this is a really great argument against buying music. I'll make good use of it to convice the few that I know that still buy music occasionally. First, commerical music is obviously crap since they have to "steal" their music. Second, if it is not immoral for producers to "steal," then why on earth should any consumer feel guilty for taking it back?
Football Odds
I like them mixed together. Smoooooth.
Have you ever tried playing "The Halls of Montezuma" and "The Army Goes Rolling Along" together?
I will be very interested to see how this pans out.
The new production even contains chip-music instruments. The other way round it would seem obvious indeed, but will anyone place value in a chip tune by an internationally unknown musician, just because it sounds so different and has no vocals ?
So when folks here ask themselves : "The chip tune is so different to the Furtado track, so why should the Finnish guy complain?" , ask yourself if you'd be saying the same thing about someone making money off a highly recognizable music of an Elton John or Green Day song. Fame means nothing in copyright law.
it's stealing. it's not like he took a drumloop, or a simple hook - he lifted the entire song and layered some vocals and extra production on top of it. it's criminal - if not legally, certainly artistically. i just lost all respect for him. he should have at least asked for permission.
think about the time that "the police" were used in that terrible hip-hop track a few years ago. whoever made it (i could care less) probably had to pay serious money for the rights. the only reason they didn't talk this time is because the original song came from an "amateur" musician.
this is disgusting.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Something that I still haven't seen mentioned anywhere yet is that the producer is usually not the songwriter. Sometimes they are, but frequently they are not. Who is credited with writing the song? They're the ones you all should be going after. The producer usually deals with overseeing the recording, orchestration, mixing, etc. But a lot of times, the chord progression, melody, lyrics, etc are already mostly in place before the producer gets into the picture.
I really hope for once the little guy will get his, and this producer that samples shamelessly way too much (and makes some really crappy music when he's not), will get slammed.
I wonder if this will be a notice to the hip-hop community that, yes, you do need to clear your samples?
Tibbon
tibbon.com
"...what rights do I have if this should ever happen to me, and what can be done to raise awareness about such things?"
None. Didn't you get the memo? Information wants to be free. Welcome to the world without copyright. Look at it another way, now more people have heard about Janne 'Tempest' Sunni so he'll be able to sell more records at his next show.
Basically it works this way: If you're involved in the demoscene, you don't have to worry about stealing because your colleagues will happily mob lynch thieves like this for you. If not then you'd better have a big fanbase.
True, sampling without permission outside a context of parody is wrong. But what if I steal and I don't know I'm stealing? How could George Harrison have caught himself and stopped himself from ripping off "He's So Fine", written by Ronald Mack and popularized by The Chiffons, when writing "My Sweet Lord"? See Cryptomnesia.
Parent post gets modded down while the first post gets modded up.
Guess Lowtax needs to make Adbot mandatory to raise some bandwidth revenue!
A quick browse of the Wikipedia webpage on sampling shows a number of cases where artists have been sued for sampling, so the best thing is to get yourself a lawyer who will direct you towards a good license that allows you to share your work non-commercially. If someone violates that license, you can then get that lawyer to go after them. The history of sampling cases seems to show that artists will pay you off so they don't risk a trial.
And that finnish artist...she should bring Timbaland to court in Finland. She definitely has a case against him, especially since she has prior art to back up her case.
My Sysadmin Blog
Janne Suni needs to get a lawyer. I'm sure several DMCA notices sent to strategic places (Apple iTunes, Walmart, etc.) will halt the album sales until a royalty agreement can be reached.
Slashdot: Failed Car Analogies. Amateur Lawyering. Anecdote Battles.
Tricky robbing Portishead blind ("Glory Box") in his track "Hell Is Around the Corner"? This sort of thing goes on all the time within the music industry, and nobody bats an eye at it.
It sounds to me like a combination of two characters from The Lion King. The farty warthog and the meerkat.
The work on YouTube is a criticism of the original works, which are not used in anything near their entirety. The author of the work on YouTube is not seeking to use this commercially. By my armchair analysis, a US court would consider this use a fair use rather than an infringement.
As long as they are ours.. That's basically the message that the Universal Music Group (of which Geffen Records is part) is sending. Its so typical of the corporate world (I'd say Corporate America, but I don't think its better elsewhere), they so much apply double standards when it comes to the law.. They are saying, we can steal from you, we can kill you, we can invade your country, we can infringe your copyrights, but if you dare to do one tenth of what we do, then its going to be terrible for you.
So anyways, feel free to use your favorite P2P network to download UMG's works, since they don't think copyright matter. That said, I couldn't agree more with them, the whole copyright thing is dumb and should be abolished.
These "musicians" or so-called rappers often take parts of a song and move the words around to call it their own.
Hate to break it to you but Timbaland is a producer.
Finally!! In America an Mp3 Creator Sues RIAA! ... (wishful thinking)
- You're not paranoid, they really are after you.
Name a type of music that has been more influential in the last 30 years..
Now days listening to all the big label music out there, I have come to find that a lot of song sound almost identical to me. Almost every *New* rock bands out there constantly sing in that same flat mundane voice, use the same effects and techniques on their instruments. I constantly get bands confused with others. Don't even ask me about techno, all that stuff sounds the same to me with just little variances in the beats/sounds. After reviewing the youtube video I can honestly say that this may be just a coincidence that the song matches with the Nelly Furtado one. Let's face it, most big name singers don't even write their own words to their songs anymore. This could have been a case that the producer stumbled across a good beat *Possibly the stolen one* and plugged it into a computer, copied the midi/mod sequence, ran it through a nice 5 thousand dollar Korg keyboard, tweaked the sounds and said "hey look! It's done!" But, as said before in other post's, there isn't going to be any or enough evidence for them to say that this was a true ripoff. The sounds are distinctly different, and the original one had no words to it. If it was truly stolen I feel sorry for Mr. Timberland, a producer with absolutely no talent resorting to stealing from free lance musicians for a quick buck.
How the hell did I get such bad karma? I blame the meds...
Haven't we learned from the Nemo lawsuit (and others) that copyright does not protect private citizens' creations. It only works for corporate-backed "creative" works.
(Yes, that was laden with sarcasm.)
I'd rather have someone respond than be modded up.
And before you go off and start flapping your gums anyway, i dont believe in copyright, patents or the concept of IP in general. As far as I'm concerned, once a 'object' is released into the world for consumption, you lose all rights to it and it belongs to 'the people'.
Fortunately, your beliefs and concerns don't matter.
featuring the song an be seen here: http://youtube.com/watch?v=ZBv8Jqi-FzA
I don't know, it sounds quite different to me.
This is new?
The role of the writer is not to say what we can all say, but what we are unable to say. -Anais Nin
Do we support this behavior (DJ Danger Mouse) or do we not (the example above)???
Have all Nelly Furtado CDs recalled and melted down, improving the average quality of music on the radio :)
Being an online-posting musician myself -- what rights do I have if this should ever happen to me?
Don't worry. It won't.
Sorry, couldn't resist.
Anyway, they're not going to get anywhere bitching to Geffen. No corporation is going to admit wrongdoing if they aren't forced to. Spreading the info on the web is good for their cause but really, "Tempest" has to get a good lawyer.
Keep in mind the only thing you can go after in the music industry is rights and roylaties. You won't get a big cash payout if an indie band steals your melody or worse, if another amateur slaps his name on your song. All you can do is make a fuss and possibly ruin their credibility. This would even go for a major label act with an album that doesn't sell-- if there's no money to be had there's not much you can do.
Now, Furtado's album will probably sell millions, so "Tempest" has a shot at getting the publishing rights for the song. But to get this resolved he will have to get a competent entertainment lawyer who will work on a (large) commision. Then, if they settle or he wins, he may be able to get the writer credit (or shared credit) on subsequent pressings of the song and all or part of the roylaties-- not on the album, but the song itself (so a fraction of the album.. a small fraction if it is not a hit.) And when I say roylaties, I'm not talking gross sales but instead what Timbaland's cut would have been.
Again, unless the song itself is a top-ten hit, I would not expect a big payday from this.
Yeah.
I've always drawn a distinction between "I'm making myself a copy because I can't get it any other way" and "It's mine, mine, all mine!"
For more information, please visit http://pouet.net/topic.php?which=3627&com=25&which =3627&com=25&page=1&x=10&y=12 for the demoscene's take on this. Then leave a Cleveland steamer on the scene's chest.
http://www.limpninja.com/acidjazz/glenn_acidjazz.m p3
Needless to say, I like GRG's version better.
Hack your mind out of its sandbox.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
I remember a few years ago some rock band stole a bass line from an old pc game. I can't remember the band since I'm not that big into rock music but I clearly remember it from the game Dark Sun: Shattered Lands on pc. I remember when I was playing the game in the area with that music thinking "damn that is a funky bass line!" and then ten years or so later hearing some rock band use it in a song that got regular radio play thinking what a ripoff.
So I think stealing obscure game music and integrating it into other genres of popular music is not new. I'm pretty this has happened other times...
Oh yes...jermaine dupri using a NES metriod music and sound effect sample to make the beat in the song "On some real" by Daz. The jd beat on that track could be considered a legitimate sample usage and "fair use" I mean it's a creative use of sampling to make a new beat and not just lifting the whole bass line but...
That rock one was a real straight ripoff, can't remember who it was though since I mostly listen to rap and electro...
I personally don't care two toilets full of crap how Nelly Furtado's career turns out, but I DO CARE what the RIAA et al do about this type of situation. Here they have the perfect opportunity to show the youth of the world that copying is NOT okay... OR... they can demonstrate first hand how it IS OK to copy people's work.
WWNFD? Can we get some bracelets printed up now? You only have to wear them when you're downloading MP3s off the Internet. Oh, please make them pink with ponies on them too.
Seriously, I hope the RIAA backs up all their BS by going after this guy for giving their whole effort a black eye if nothing else. They should make him apologize to the world, and give away free NF MP3 downloads, or divert CD sales profits to the original musician.
Does anyone else out there have examples of artists ripping off smaller unknown artists?
Support NYCountryLawyer RIAA vs People
Maybe you'd give him props if he asked beforehand, but afterwards like this... you'd do the same thing anyone would. Sue him and his label.
Tibbon
tibbon.com
"In 2000 the Finnish demoscene musician Janne Suni (also known as 'Tempest') won the Oldskool Music Competition at the Assembly demoparty with his four-channel Amiga .MOD entitled 'Acid Jazzed Evening.' A Commodore 64 musician called 'grg' remade the song on the C64 (using the infamous SID soundchip); it is this that was stolen."
1. How is it that the latter was stolen, but the former wasn't?
2. How do we know the "evidence" wasn't fabricated?
2a. Are you sure I won't find something suspiciously similar in my obviously pre-2000 collection of MODs on my Apple IIgs? I still have it and them, and it still works.
3. According to the Red Hot Chili Peppers, "Givitaway givitaway givitaway givitaway now", so why do they still charge money for their albums and concert tickets? Word.
4. Can I get sued for #3? Hell yes. Will it have any merit? Depends on how good the attorneys they can afford to buy with their profits are. Two words. Sad to say, but true.
d00d, Bono didn't start giving it away until after he'd made such a pile that he could afford to, and even then he used what he made to get people to give him more so he could give that away. Therein lies his genius.
"I may be synthetic, but I'm not stupid." -- Bishop 341-B
This guy makes them money. Hell, they will probably sue the person who put the YouTube clip together for copyright infringement and breaking some anti-copying scheme on her shitty CD. The RIAA will never look out for the little guy, ever. Of course, you already knew that :)
Tibbon
tibbon.com
You do have rights over your content after it's been released.
Wow. Easiest counterargument ever. Any others I can knock out of the park while I'm here?
"Sufferin' succotash."
Lifting and rearranging (i.e. "stealing") a tune is not sampling. If the Timbaland recording is the first published use of the song, and the use is unauthorized, then it is copyright infringement plain and simple. If it is not the first published use of the song, then there are two possibilities: a) the re-recording is a "cover" of the original, essentially similar to it, in which case compulsory licensing applies (and royalties are paid to the copyright holder at a rate defined by statute), or b) the re-recording is different enough that it is a derivative work, in which case compulsory licensing does not apply and once again it is simple copyright infringement. The copyright holder can force a halt to the infringement; what damages might be obtained in court, I don't know - the law isn't simple.
This is US law - I don't know what country's laws would actually apply in this case.
The real problem here isn't that he built on someone else's work. That's just copying, and although copying without permission might be illegal in many cases, most of us realize it isn't unethical or immoral.
No, the real problem is that he didn't give credit. He's committing fraud against everyone who hears or buys the song, because he's claiming (at least implicitly) that he wrote the parts which he actually copied. Fraud is immoral, unethical, and illegal.
Visual IRC: Fast. Powerful. Free.
What the hell does that mean?
Their's goes: Da da da da da da da
Mine goes: Da da da da da da da
D6 63 0D 70 89 81 BB 8E 7B 7C 5F 5D 54 EA AB 73
Dimmu Borgir, a Norwegian Black Metal group, ripped a song from the Amiga game "Agony", composed by Tim Wright. The original was a beautiful piano piece that you could listen to in the title screen. The band stole the melody and used it in the song "Sorgens Kammer" ("The Chamber of Sorrow" in Norwegian).
They never acknowledged the ripoff, simply substituting the song with another one in the album. Pathetic.
Hack your mind out of its sandbox.
How about you stop whining and actually LISTEN to the audio track that accompanies that video, ok? The music is the same.
Giving credit does not remove the requirement to get permission; it just tells the world who is going to sue you.
If you don't give credit, you're lying about your song's authorship. If you do, you're just doing what every composer has done throughout history: building on the work of those who came before you.Building on a public domain built by previous composers was possible until legislatures around the world extended copyright term to exceed the human life span.
Sample to your hearts content without permission, if you have a winner, then you pay for the license. It looks like Timbaland just forgot the last part. If the song never gets released and popular, no harm no foul right? But if you have a winner you'll be able and happy to pay for the license, so it is a no brainer to sample without permission, until you want to release it. Of course this only seems to work for those with the ability to make money off a release (big record labels), independent musicians without the exposure and protection of a big label probably won't be able to pay off the copyright holder anyway.
But Tempest is right, there is no way this'd be worth it to fight. For example Talib Kweli recently violated Ben Kweller's copyright (or more likely his label's copyright) from the song "In Other Words". Kweller replied at the end episode 7 of his youtube show One Minute Pop Song. If a fairly well known artist, Ben Kweller, can't fight it, someone like Tempest has pretty poor chances.
Home sampling is probably fair use, but certainly using a sample on a record is not. If Timbaland samples Tempest at home, I think that is great. If Timbaland wants to include it on an album, there has to be some kind of recourse for the little guy covering such obvious infringement. You know if Tempest released an album (even just on the internet) sampling Timbaland the RIAA would be all over it with Lawyers. Remember The Grey Album?
Who gave you permission to speak, boy?
Nelly Furtado is Portugese
I've really enjoyed a lot of the Popcap games available for PDAs, especially since a lot of their optional background music seems eerily familiar from my downloaded mod files (many are available from Nectarine radio nowadays: http://www.demoscene.net/ )
m l
OK, so it actually turns out that a lot of Future Crew's tracks were commissioned by Popcap:
http://www.futurecrew.org/skaven/music_tracker.ht
In any case, it's nice to see demoscene music used appropriately by folks with any decency.
I don't know who Timbaland is, but I've heard the name before in a magazine or something. It may have even been Wired. Anyhow my question is this: is there any proof/evidence linking Timbaland to the demoscene mod? Other than the speculation? Is he known for scouring the net for beats and/or old music to sample or whatever? Did he find this clip on a website out there (demoscene or otherwise) and decide to use it?
Guess my point is you have colonel mustard with the candlestick, now just get him in the library.
FLR
Timbaland's track will be published by a music publisher. The airplay royalties are collected by the publisher and split between the artist and themselves. The record label normally owns the mechanical copyright, which is to say the sound recording (they paid for it or licensed it). In this case Demoscene should try to sue the publisher (if the intellectual work is infringed/stolen) or the label (if the material has been sampled and reproduced) or both.
From there, the publisher may deny the charge meaning the next step is to commission an independent musicologists report (probably paid for by demoscene) arguing the point from a technical musical basis. If the publisher doesn't want any trouble they may offer some sort of split deal, like 50/50. Then a bunch of lawyers get together and hack out an agreement. Royalties should be backdated in their entirety. The same process then applies to the record company if any of the sound recording has been stolen.
All it will take is a keen music lawyer and it should all be sorted out - there seems to be proof of prior art and everyone in the business knows hiphop is full of stealing and accept it as part of the business (and one of the problems). Demoscene should eventually come away with a decent amount of money and that will be that.
I'm a published music writer and have been sued once and sued someone else once. It's a normal procedure. There's an old music business saying - "where there's a hit, there's a writ"
spoonerize "magic trackpad"
Maybe Timbaland is hoping this will all blow over, that it's just a "Tempest" in a Teapot ;)
How could he steal it if he didn't deprive the Tempest of anything? Did he sneak into his basements at night and take the only floppy disk that had that sample on it?
/. definition of stealing.
/., at worst this is a copyright infringement. I don't know how the work was originally released but suspect it probably wasn't Public Domain or a Creative Commons flavour.
The above was adapted from the Official
So while we're still at
Of course if the demoscene wasn't interested in making money out of this they would have released it with an appropriate licence in the first place and taken the recent discovery as an ego-boost right?
"Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife
Color me surprised!
At first I thought maybe they just ripped off the bassline or maybe sampled the synth for a couple bars. But this is wholesale theft of pretty much the entire song, including the melody. The line is thin, yes, but this is worse than "Can't Touch This" (Superfreak) or "Ice Ice Baby" (Under Pressure) or anything Puff Daddy ever did (at least he got permission from the original artist). This kind of sampling is simply dishonest. I'm totally for allowing samples to be used fairly, but this is far beyond sampling — it's theft of the song.
Did you ever notice that *nix doesn't even cover Linux?
Maybe we should just rewrite copyright law. "It is illegal to use media without permission from the original author, that is, unless the one doing the plaguarising is someone whom Slashdot user swordgeek doesn't like."
Basilisk Digital
Producer, rapper, what's the big difference? I could give two shits less about what you call a thief. Oh, he's a kleptomaniac. SO SORRY WE'RE INTO DETAILS HERE.
Assembly - Hit Music Before It's Even Written
Tempest - The man behind Timbaland
Can anyone think of any more?
So basically, no difference.
The album was recalled in the early 90's along with KMFDM who also sampled Carmina Burana. Looks like its time for another recall.
by TheSpoom (715771) Uncaring Linux user here. I have nothing to add to this but please continue. *munches popcorn*
There is this rap-musician, who goes by the name of "Schoolly D". He took a bit of Jimmy Page / Led Zeppelin's "Kashmir" (the essential bit, to be precise) and made a new song out of it, "Signifying Rapper" , a tongue-not-so-much-in cheek story about a "rapper" and a "pimp"; loud, dirty social commentary.
The song was used by Director Abel Ferrara in his film "Bad Lieutenant", it accompanied some crucial scenes and became an integral part of Ferrara's work (quite some social commentary in itself).
Page/Zeppelin, having not been asked for permision, eventually decided to sue, and Ferrara/Schoolly D (unwilling or unable to fight a major legal battle) removed "Signifying Rapper" from any subsequent releases of the film (e.g.: you can't get the "original" version on DVD).
What I'd like to know: Would Ferrara/Schoolly D have had a leg to stand on, had they chosen to fight this case ("1st Amendment" or somesuch)? And if not - why not?
a.c.
P.S.: Half a decade later the song turns up again (or at least that crucial bit) --- in/for Roland Emmerich's "Godzilla", re-interpreted, heavily re-mixed (and probably well-paid for) by one "Puff Daddy"... so apparently there weren't even any artistic qualms about the re-appropriation of the song in a pop/rap/hiphop-context. Abel Ferrara had some choice words to say about the incident in an interview:
sig? Oh, that sig...
IMO the orginal song was better than the ripoff. But I was going to say, There is a demoscene streaming radio to get demoscene tunes:
:) IMO that mainstream stuff isn't worth buy, isn't worth pirating, isn't worth listening too, and I probably would refuse it even if they offered to pay me to listen too it.
http://www.scenemusic.net/
Listen to cool mods and chip tunes and stuff for free and legal. Better than that mainstream shit anyways. The C64 demos and especially that beautiful SID sound chip inside the thing made very beautiful sounds. Good enough people modify their C64s and convert them into synths... someone also made a synth called the SIDStation based on left-over stocks of the SID chip Check out this wikipedia page:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodore_64
The sound chip, SID, had three channels, each with its own ADSR envelope generator, and with several different waveforms, ring modulation and filter capabilities. It too, was very advanced for its time. It was designed by Bob Yannes, who would later co-found synthesizer company Ensoniq. Yannes criticized other contemporary computer sound chips as "primitive, obviously (...) designed by people who knew nothing about music." Often the game music became a hit of its own among C64 users. Well-known composers and programmers of game music on the C64 were Rob Hubbard, David Whittaker, Ben Daglish, Martin Galway and David Dunn among many others. Due to the chip's limitation to three channels, chords were played as arpeggios typically, coining the C64's characteristic lively sound.
There are two versions of the SID chip, the first version was the MOS Technology 6581, which is to be found in all of the original "breadbox" C64s, and early versions of the C64C and the Commodore 128. It was later replaced with the MOS Technology 8580 in 1987. The sound quality was a little more crisp on the 6581 and many Commodore 64 fans still prefer its sound. The main difference between the 6581 and the 8580 was the voltage supply: the 6581 uses a 12 volt supply, while the 8580 required only 9 volts. A voltage modification can be made to use a 6581 in a C64C board (which uses 9V).
The SID chip has a distinctive sound which retained a following of devotees. In 1999, Swedish company Elektron produced a SidStation synth module, built around the SID chip, using remaining stocks of the chip. Several bands use these devices in their music.
The tracker/demo scene music lives on, you can download trackers for linux/windows/mac. It's a cool geeky way to have fun and make music. There's tons of demo songs to play around with, tons of free sample sites out there to get free sounds, and tons of free synth and effects plugins (besides the masses of commercial stuff you can buy). Maybe it's just me, but this is what I'm doing, and I'll support the tracker and demo scene before I ever spend another cent on mainstream corporate music. I don't care if it sounds good or bad, it can be fun, and I think the results are a lot more worthwhile than mainstream radio. I don't feel like such a whore this way
This evening I went to slashdot, and I found an article about something I had never heard of before, and found the topic fascinating. Thank you for exposing those of us who hadn't heard of demoscening to something new.
At least there aren't any more damn iPhone stories! ;p
Don't blame me, I voted for Baltar.
Boy, if you ever thought a large number of /. commenters were flat out stupid (as opposed to ones who just disagree with you), following that link to YouTube will certainly make you feel much better about /. commenters!
Relevant xkcd
Ladies and gentlemen of this supposed jury, Janne Suni's attorney would certainly want you to believe that his client wrote "Acid Jazzed Evening" ten years ago. And they make a good case. Hell, I almost felt pity myself! But, ladies and gentlemen of this supposed jury, I have one final thing I want you to consider. Ladies and gentlemen, this is Chewbacca. Chewbacca is a Wookiee from the planet Kashyyyk. But Chewbacca lives on the planet Endor. Now think about it; that does not make sense!
Why would a Wookiee, an eight-foot tall Wookiee, want to live on Endor, with a bunch of two-foot tall Ewoks? That does not make sense! But more important, you have to ask yourself: What does this have to do with this case? Nothing. Ladies and gentlemen, it has nothing to do with this case! It does not make sense! Look at me. I'm a lawyer defending a major record company, and I'm talkin' about Chewbacca! Does that make sense? Ladies and gentlemen, I am not making any sense! None of this makes sense! And so you have to remember, when you're in that jury room deliberatin' and conjugatin' the Emancipation Proclamation, [approaches and softens] does it make sense? No! Ladies and gentlemen of this supposed jury, it does not make sense! If Chewbacca lives on Endor, you must acquit! The defense rests.
Bzzzt! Thanks for playing.
By the tenets of the Berne Convention, an international copyright treaty, the registration requirement was done away with, and works become copyrighted the moment they become "fixed" in a tangible form. Your ability to defend the right of course improves if you register it.
"Tempest" has a legitimate copyright in the work... For all the good it will do him.
Schwab
Editor, A1-AAA AmeriCaptions
> what rights do I have if this should ever happen to me
Get a lawyer.
Now the trick is to keep the info in there. As an aside, I honestly think that moaning the record label is the wrong approach, and that if somehow Timbaland himself can be reached, he would probably reach out to Tempest - maybe send him a SidStation, trade tips on producing bleepy bloopy music. Don't try to talk artistic merit to the suits. And don't think that big artists are completely unreachable and internet-stupid. Then again, I might be spoiled in my own experience, running a Nine Inch Nails website. Know any other sizeable artists who make their Pro-Tools masters available to the public, upload DVD cuts of out-of-print or unreleased video compilations and 320kbps MP3s live collaborations to the Pirate Bay, and was posting to Prodigy news groups back in 1991.
Seriously though, someone should try to contact Timbaland.
I am Leviathant and I approve this message.
Why I am not surprised to see that the very forum that applauded the release of the Grey Album by Danger Mouse now thinks that sampling and mixing is bad?
/ The Arrow
"How lovely you are. So lovely in my straightjacket..." - Nny
Um, I don't know... how about not posting your songs online for everybody to download? I'm not trying to be sarcastic here: if you don't want people to use your stuff, don't let people listen to it? Alternatively, DRM your music. You're facing the same problems that record-label musicians face every day, how to combat piracy, and they're fighting a losing battle.
Condemnant quod non intellegunt.
Check out 10 Big Myths About Copyright, which has boiled down some of the finer points of copyright law.
It seems clear that Timbaland jacked the material in question. However, to my knowledge Tempest wasn't making any kind of money from 'Acid Jazzed Evening' and didn't have a registered his work (you don't have to register a work for it to be copyrighted, I believe it does affect your success in seeking damages). Furthermore, Tempest wasn't selling his music, and he never tried to seek an injunction or royalties from the demoscene author who made the c64 version. So it's not like Timbaland's offense hurt Tempest's income.
On the other hand, the fact that Nelly Furtado's 'Do It' is relatively popular indicates that the original track had 'Commercial Value', which is the money phrase that lawyers use in these rapper sampling lawsuits.
So, I'd say Tempest has a good case in seeking an injunction against the songs distribution, but his claim at damages is hurt by the fact that he was being kind of free-spirited about his song for six years, and has now started taking offense now that somebody is making money off of it.
Being an online-posting musician myself -- what rights do I have if this should ever happen to me, and what can be done to raise awareness about such things?"
Depending on your jurisdiction you either have copyright or authors rights (in US often called moral rights). That means no one may use your work (as defined in the relevant paragraphs of copyright law) in any way without your consent.
The difficult thing may be to proof authorship in court, especially in the money feudalistic US law system.
angel'o'sphere
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
And gospel/blues/et al spawned from slaves. So would it also be in the spirit of that music's origins to, say, reinstate slavery?
Trying to conflate the origins of the demoscene with a rationalization of what Timbaland has done is absurd. Software piracy has nothing whatsoever to do with this.
Taking the same song and playing it on a different instrument for profit without the proper approval is copyright infringement. Taking A RECORDING of a song and modifying it into a different work is an example of sampling. Apologies to all engineers and recording technicians who know the amount of work that goes into recording a perfect mix. Disregard that for now. ... Unless of course they thought they wouldn't get caught. look up the suit that the Bright Tunes Music Corp. brought up against George Harrison of the Beetles in 1976. The decision involved musical phrasing and motifs, not the song's actual melody. Timbaland didn't even bother changing the song's key.
Most of the more famous cases of musical rip-offs have been less obvious and involve the chord structure of the song, not the actual melody. Probably because no one would be dumb enough to rip off an entire melody and just paste their name on it.
The eternal struggle of good vs. evil begins within one's self.
he wants to slide his virgin cock into Nelly's stinky pink.
Do you even lift?
These aren't the 'roids you're looking for.
he should be doing a "remix" right now while the publicity is hot.
Hark! Do I hear the dull roar of a Free (as in beer) community enraged by Corporate America, worse the dreaded Music Industry, treading on the rights of the proletariat or individual? Are mine eyes deceiving, or is the general tone of comments really asking for an expansion or, at the very least, greater enforcement of copyright laws? Just because this "four chord" Nelly Furtado song is very (very+) similar, yet corporate-ly created, doesn't necessary mean it was purposefully stolen. Simply put, there are only so many listenable chord progressions and only so many samples. Worse, the human brain is a very odd thing, especially when it comes to music, that can retain amazingly detailed information subconsciously (which I sadly have personal knowledge of from my own "phonographic memory"). I can very well imagine that whomever did the sequencing or production may have once heard Tempest's track, such that this take "just sounded right". It is also possible, given the relative simplicity of the basic "riff" and lack of melody in modern music, that this could have just happened with no sinister undertones (no pun intended). For a humorous, though simplified, example take a listen to this rant on Pachelbel's Canon in D http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdxkVQy7QLM.
u #Copyright_issues_and_public_performances, that that anybody whose ever done Karaoke has checked their venue's status with ASCAP, made sure the cover band they hired is paying the necessary royalties, ...
I really can't imagine that all the folks up in arms over this case of corporate "stealing" are paying their "quarter" every time they sing "Happy Birthday" in public http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Happy_Birthday_to_Yo
Yeah, I didn't think so either.
The whole copyright system is broken and needs fixing. Music is no different, but the answer is not punish the legitimate musicians in the mean time.
If I were Janne, I wouldn't bother trying to get $ for this, but milk it for all the publicity I could! In the music world, it's much better to be able to say, "my song was sampled by this guy" than to get a little dough. He will be able to use this as a chance to write backing music for some other hip-hop artists...for pay! Think of it as an apprenticeship.
Nelly Furtado's a freaking Portugese CANADIAN. Where did they get Australian from?? /Canadian
Jeremy
So if I wanna be creative I just reuse stuff from somebody else?
I don't get it...
Learn the truth about MLK from a website hosted by the Stormfront White Nationalist Community? Alright! I'm sure they are definitely the go-to guys to learn about MLK.
This has been known to the demoscene for some time. I posted this to Wikipedia on december 3rd, but since it had not yet been run in the news, it was blanked and relinked by editors due to "lack of sources". See http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Do_It&ac tion=history for details.
That way it's a lot less likely that someone can claim that they thought that you intended to allow them to do what they're doing.
Sometimes boldness is in fashion. Sometimes only the brave will be bold.
Ask a Native American who the biggest thieves are.
LK
"Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
I was just going to mod you down for that post, but I'd rather reply to it. Timbaland is a pop producing machine nowadays. (see: Justin Timberlake, Missy Elliott, among others). He only makes the music.
He doesn't turn artists into "shite-generating whore[s]" on his own; there is always the label pushing for more sales one way or another. Look at, for example, Nine Inch Nails' "Pretty Hate Machine"; in many interviews, Trent Reznor has said that TVT called PHM "radio unfriendly" or something similar, and then brought in producers to alter Reznor's work and make it "acceptable". Did he have much of a choice? Again, according to interviews, he didn't. I suppose that Ms. Furtado falls into the same category, where the label found her to be stagnating and then turned her into a "shite-generating whore" by throwing in some fancy Pro Tools work and skanky outfits.
And it isn't a question of Tempest's music being "bad", after all Timbaland is using (practically) the entire Tempest track as the beat for the Nelly Furtado one. I repeat, Timbaland is not producing the track for Tempest. As a result of all this, I think you should be modded down for inaccuracy and possible over generalization.
.-.
aaliyah's song "try again" (he was on that as well) is a blatant rip-off of the Sega game Shadow of the Beast.
I always assumed they paid for it, but now...
I mean, how many people have played that game?
anyone remember it?
Steve
In the late 80s Hip-Hop was filled with James Brown samples. Nobody younger than 40 cared about James Brown until then. All of a sudden you had kids buying his whole catalog, maybe initially looking for samples, but eventually appreciating the artist as a whole.
Being involved in Hip-Hop in the late 80s and early-mid 90s opened my ears to stuff I would have never checked out. I went looking for samples to some of my favorite songs and ended up finding an artist from a generation or genre far away from my own, it turned me onto tons of Jazz, Soul (though my mom had some of that around since a kid), classic rock, classical, and even world music. My iTunes library would make it hard to identify exactly what my 'favorite' genre is.
You went looking for the craziest sounds, and you ended up uncovering artists that nobody cared about. Forgotten people. All of a sudden those avant-garde guys with a few thousand pressings become Hip-Hop icons.
So my message to the original composer is simple: capitalize on this my friend. You have a chance to expose the world to how cool the demoscene is. Call CNN, MTV, somebody -- and get on and tell your story and the whole scene's story. Hell, try to contact Timberland and do it in friendly way to just get your credit. Forget about lawsuits.
But MLK websites hosted by anti-racists are not suspect?
Everything contained in that website is sourced and verifiable.
Just because they glossed over certain facts about him in school and lionized him as a hero with no character flaws doesn't mean that flawless image of him is reflective of reality.
http://download.yousendit.com/D76FD4F740E33253 ---> this one is another track he sampled. It's from a score made by Marcus Viana for a Brazilian novela "O Clone" that played on Globo TV in Brazil.
SIERRA TANGO FOXTROT UNIFORM
A Commodore 64 musician called 'grg' remade the song on the C64 (using the infamous SID soundchip); it is this that was stolen.
Really, who cares? That's generic synth music with a generic beat. I'm sure you could find half a dozen other tracks that sound so similar that most people couldn't tell. Even then, a lot of the great music in history was copied and put in a slightly different form, so if Mozart and Haydn did it, why is it all of a sudden so awful?
Note that it's clear that a lot of cases of this kind of "copyright violation" is actually just a case of failing memory: it's common for people to think they created something themselves even though they just remembered it.
Being an online-posting musician myself -- what rights do I have if this should ever happen to me, and what can be done to raise awareness about such things?"
Well, you have the rights guaranteed to you by copyright. You'll have to decide for yourself whether it's worth trying to enforce them. Maybe against Geffen it is.
You stand a better chance if you make something distinctive enough so that people actually recognize it as yours when someone else uses it. I don't think this counts.
After looking through Timbalands horrific flash website, I discovered this nifty signup form to join his fan club! Sign up, and let him know how you feel about the issue... many, many, many times. It's got some interestingly sloppy client-side validation/hashing crap that should prove to be fun!
Can I get a shout out from the robots in the back row?!
captcha: shafts -- how appropriate!
The trance song "Kernkaft 400" by Zombie Nation was a major hit in Europe in the late 90s, and quite obviously sampled from a Commodore 64 song. They were eventually forced to share writing credit with the original musician, David Whittaker, and pay a share of their royalties accordingly. I hope this ends up the same way.
"The good die first." "Most of us are morally ambiguous, which explains our random dying patterns." --- MST3K
Janne is a name of a man. I know, I'm a Finn myself too.
1. A "musician" is someone who takes the time and trouble to learn how to play an instrument (or indeed to sing) and then spends a considerable amount of effort writing new and original songs that the musician, possibly with other muscians, may then well present to an audience. An "entrepreneur" is some chap up on a stage behind two record decks who has come to the realisation that 2000 kids who are out of their heads on "e" will pay good money to jiggle around to any old rubbish being played over speakers providing there are enough flashing lights.
2. Any chap who can't even think of looking in the mirror to check his that his baseball cap is on the right way round before he leaves the house probably won't have much useful to say about anything.
3. Please consider wearing correctly tailored trousers if you are in the music scene. If you've got on a pair of jeans where the crutch is round by your knees, you probably won't be very good at running to catch the bloke who's just made off with your Nelly Furtado record collection.
4. Any good DJ knows that you finish off the evening with two slow smoochy songs by The Commodores followed by Jeff Beck's "Hi Ho Silver Lining" - so that all the drunk blokes without women can all get in a circle and kick their legs in the air.
5. I am amazed that all those clumsy DJs who keep knocking and scratching the LPs on their record decks have noe bothered to invest in a technology and format known as "Compact Disc". This allows the disc to be inserted into a playing device which can then be installed on a shelf or cabinet where it is unlikely to be knocked, meaning that the listening pleasure of the audience is not damaged by jumpy records.
6. Can somebody please find out who the names of those big black chaps who keep muttering away to themselves and waving their fingers at me over old classic records that have been jiggled about a bit? The last person who did this is my family was my grandmother and we put the poor old dear in a home.
Gentoo Linux - another day, another USE flag.
...being used in a big hit: Kernkraft 400 which featured game music from the game Lazy Jones (C64). I don't know if David Whittaker, the original producer, ever got money for it though, but I guess he did.
Slashdot: stuff for news, nerds that matter, matter for news, stuff that nerd
Further proof that hip hoppers and Gansta rappers can not create their own music. They probably search desperately through music archives hopping to find a tune that nobody has heard of so they can use it in their songs. And not be caught plagiarizing someone else's work..
They have to sample...I hate how Vanilla Ice bastardized "under pressure" I hate how rappers are using Ozzy tunes to fortify their garbage. Why don't they go to school and learn to play an instrument? Anyone can do what they do.
No it doesn't make me prejudice because I don't like hip hop or rap. I don't like football either but that doesn't mean I'm wrong or a bad person.
Lets take the Doobie brothers for instance. They wrote their music NOTE BY NOTE. They played their instruments. And they didn't have drum machines or artificial forms of bass. No. they had to know every instrument they played. They didn't sample other people music. They created their own. They didn't play cover tunes either that I know of. They wrote China grove. One of the greatest songs ever produced...
Bands like Styx Boston and Kansas wrote their own material. People came to hear their music. Not look at a bunch of hoochie momas on stage shaken their money makers. These bands didn't have to entice a mostly male audience who wants to look at T&A all night. And its cool, All bands have gimmicks Kiss used their gothic appeal. But they never sampled other people's stuff. They played their instruments. And they could write music. A true musician can write a tune from scratch on paper. Then play it on their instrument.
Lets take J.S. Bach for instance. Here was a man who in the 18th century created music that is still listened to today. Lots of people with their blings have quite a few midi ring tones that came from this great musician.
Bach Wrote music. With no electricity. Nothing but pen and paper. To this day his music is being learned by guitarist and classical instrumentalist. I once heard this hip hop guy try to compare himself to J.S. Bach... I was astounded by how arrogant this little punk was. Trying to compare his stream of obscenities and put downs on women to the musical genius of J.S. Bach!
I remember and interview on the Arsenial Hall show where he had Calvin Broadus on the show. On that show.. This character dared to compare himself to Phil Collins... He is unfit to lick the dog sh__ off of Phil Collins shoes. He calls himself Snoop dog who's handle came from the cartoonist Charles Shultz cartoon peanuts. Snoopy.
Too many hip hop and rap people seem to not get the point. And it would be nice if they could produce their own stuff and not sample everyone else's
I have written a number of Amiga Mods. I used octamed. I used instruments samples made myself from me playing an instrument and then recording myself into the computer- not sample other peoples stuff.But made my own sounds...And I plan to keep an eye out for people stealing my stuff....It takes a very long time to write Mods or even sit on the couch and write a song. Which brings me to another point.
OK I can call up 2 of my friends. We can sit in my living room and play some music. We can sing and we can jam out. WITH NO ELECTRICTY. These people who sample music, Beat drum machines and think a vinyl disk player is an instrument can not do that.
They can not because they are not true musicians.
No I am not prejudice just tired of hearing good tunes put through the crapper
I have yet to meet a rapper or hip hop person who could do what I do on my Gibson.
Like a said before it doesn't make me mean or nasty because I object to these idiots sampling. Many of the rock musicians that formed the cornerstone of my genre are black.
Muddy Waters. Jimmy Hendrix, bb king, prince, Otis Redding and Morris day (all though Morris's genre was funk) Are but a few. So don't think that rock is an all white thing. It isn't neither is rap or hip hop. Enema oops I mean Em and Em or what ever he calls himself is white.And his stuff sucks equaly as bad as all the other garbage genre out there.
Whoop their it is!
Lameness filter encountered. Post aborted! Lameness filter encountered. Post aborted!
IANAL.
If a representative of Timbaland/the record company approaches you with an offer of any kind, first ask when the offer expires, then explain that you will put it to your lawyer. Then do that. Find a lawyer, if you don't have one already, and explain the situation and the fact and content of the offer. Watch their eyes pop as you explain that an offer's been made.
Then fucking take evil for everything they have in court.
Read everything that's to be signed by you. Don't give up any rights for the song, license it at a per case basis. Don't give your lawyer power of attorney to work on your behalf unless you really really trust him and have limited his powers in some way (written). Being passive in that could be a huge mistake.
IANAL.
Belief is the currency of delusion.
That's what capitalism is about: Those who have the money (to hire the lawyers), have the power.
The reason for them not being against ripping off is simple: it takes money to rip off and distribute. It doesn't take money to make illegal copies.
But in this case, people could have the power: they might as well play the original tune instead of the ripped-off one, free of charge. But they won't. Just because they are stupid mass-market zombies. That's the truth.
Stolen sales? Well, as one other poster said, how can the original author sell his work if it is given out by someone else. And each one is bought so really IS a lost sale: the money cannot also go to the original artist.
Stolen copyright? Well, if the original author got taken to court for infringement in two years time for his own song, the artist with the bigger backing will be able to successfully argue the song is THEIRS. The original author has lost the copyright. And may also have to pay up for past use of his own song.
So in both cases (combined in plagiarism) the effect REALLY IS as if the copyrights were stolen from the author. Bootlegging only has the first result. Downloading for free from P2P does only part 1 *potentially*.
Since ideas have no physical representation, how is plagiarism different from really stealing?
I guess he'll be laughing his pants off when he settles with Geffen & Timberland for a small share of the revenue made from the song... Who'd have thunk that? 6 years after doing a SID tune out of hobbyism he finds himself with some millions of $$$ because some dickhead remakes his remake of an Amiga song without asking permission for it.
I think he was mocking the whole one of the hottest names in American music bit by indicating that he'd never even heard of whoever the hell they were talking about. It's the first thing I thought of when I read that line, "WhoTF? is so and so?"
Non predominantly white music has had no major influence in the last 30 years?
Hmmmmmm.
I knew there was a reason why you guys hated rap...
--- Grow a pair, liberals... stop letting the Republicans bully you!
Yet here we are with all posts supporting restrictions on using a demoscene song! I think it's time Slashdot took a long look in the mirror to discover our priorities.
Don't debase tiddlywinks. It's a noble game played by honorable gentlemen with vicious streaks a mile wide.
Which reminds me, I was planning on forming a Finnish (or Scandinavian, or Nordic) tiddlywinks club; perhaps this dude might want to join, if your advice is actually sensible?
Also FatPhil on SoylentNews, id 863
Not many comments on the actual story... just allot of musical bigotry. Once again, /. user comments make me wanna smoke crack.
What I don't understand is why the authors could not just compiled evidence and file a case and see what happens.
Nelly Furtado's a freaking Portugese CANADIAN. Where did they get Australian from?? /Canadian
Most of us can barely find Canada on the map even though it's our 51st state; let alone figure out where some small island in the Pacific is located so we naturally assume anyone that speaks English and is from the Pacific is Australian. But at least we know Lisboa is Australa's capital; and if you look closely enough at a map of Europe you can find Australia nestled between germany and Hungary.
What I find odd is that her last name is Furtado - that doesn't sound very Australian since they speak English, not Spanish.
Obrigado for playing.
I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
Then again, I might be spoiled in my own experience, running a Nine Inch Nails website. Know any other sizeable artists who make their Pro-Tools masters available to the public, upload DVD cuts of out-of-print or unreleased video compilations and 320kbps MP3s live collaborations to the Pirate Bay, and was posting to Prodigy news groups back in 1991.
The Grateful Dead - their approach was to encourage the trading and taping of live concerts (but not released albums) and have made a lot of their work freely available; in return they got a loyal group of fans and a few bucks along the long strange trip they took.
I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
Retroactively license the composition under CC share and share alike. That puts Geffen and timbalame in a bad position, either they leave it be (and their track is freely redistributable) or they have to affirmatively plead tempests copyright (this is why the GPL works). By granting Geffen a license to redistribute and modify, tempest puts the ball in their court ;-)
Not as far as im concerned you dont.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
On a side note, this got me wondering how many people in the US think the Governator is Australian...
May contain traces of nut.
Made from the freshest electrons.
"Being an online-posting musician myself -- what rights do I have if this should ever happen to me, and what can be done to raise awareness about such things?"
In the US, you automatically have copyright on any work you create (unless you explicitly place a work in the public domain), but if you want to make it easier to sue violators, registration of a work makes violators liable to any legal fees you may incur.
I'd guess that the Timberland shoe wearing producer probably gets a fair amount of money for the work they do. But, I don't think the compensation ends there. Not to mention penalties for willful infringement, there are damages to be collected in that the unauthorized use of the music has precluded the artist from collaborating on a better-produced and therefore more-successful pop song which could have netted millions in revenue had the work not been usurped. Now, the artist has been pre-emptively deprived of their ability to earn income because no producer will use the tainted track. There's no doubt record companies have pursued this same logic when the Timbaland is on the other foot.
"No sir; i did not copy this song, it is my own production. It's just a 'sample', look i added a mp3 'effect'.
timbaland? who the hell is that?
Is this the same guy that was involved in an FCC action due to some wardrobe malfunction with somone else?
The truth shall set you free!
This sounds like someone who has actually enjoyed music and studied it rather than put a thinly veiled racist ideological spin on it.
--- Grow a pair, liberals... stop letting the Republicans bully you!
the rule of rap music say you have to use the words nigga money hoe drugs and gat at least once.
so, nigga nigga nigga, money hoes money hoes.
niga nigga nigga, get some drugs with my gat.
repeat for 3 minutes.
take the backbeat from Cyndi Laupers "Time after time", mix it in and sell to a record company.
sit back and make several million dollars only to get sued later by the producers of Pee Wee's Playhouse for ripping off Jambi the Genie's "Meka leka hai, meka hai ni ho"
You don't believe 3 different people can make the same kinds of noises coincedentally. Nothing is new, everything has been done and thought of. Especially when it comes to simple fucking noises!!! Come on! "Someone made that midi sequence 7 years ago in a country whose language I don't speak (so surely i've heard this track before?!), so i can't use it."
Great album by a great group.
"I'd dare say not many can bring up a memorable rap 'song' older than a year ago....just does not have timelessness or staying power." http://www.answers.com/topic/ad-hominem Any fan of rap (although the genre has horribly waned in quality in the mainstream) or even music can name at least a dozen rap songs dawning from its birth up 'til today. On the other hand, I can't think of any of jazz songs. That's because I'm not a big fan of jazz; it has nothing to do with the genre not having timelessness or staying power.
http://msntg.zingy.com/selectItem.php?kind=xt&code =03576
By timbaland also. This is pretty much the *exact* same tune as Tempest, no vocals or other effects to muddy the waters for comparison.
Replying to an unrelated post to get this higher up.
Here's the site. Nothing but placeholder text for now. The page says "Later tonight (Sunday, 14th January 2007) (well, before Monday morning anyway)" and Finland is at GMT+2.
The link is to a 'Timbaland' ring tone called 'Block Party'. It obvious from this one that it is a rip of Finnish guys song. By the way, if that song 'Do It' is an example of Furtado's music... I still can't believe the kind of crap music that most people will buy. The Finnish guys melody is the only part of that song that isn't totally generic and pitiful.
Well I guess Tempest could look at it this way. Tons of people that would have never heard his track have had several highprofile chances to be exposed to it - and I have downloaded the mp3 version of his .MOD and added it to my music library. Would that have happened if some looser holywood producer didnt rip it off? I hope Timbaland gets his (which even in this case is probably a fat sack of money, but hopefully will include the outrage of the internet) , but I think that Tempest has probably had his song go much farther now than he ever intended.
Check this out: http://msntg.zingy.com/selectItem.php?kind=xt&code =03576
He sold the song as a ringtone before he used it for the Nelly Furtado-album.
Eminem is what we call a wigger.
...here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wV2fTEeP6GM
New video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wV2fTEeP6GM
Oh my. This erased all doubts for me. It's a rip!
Dusty Bottoms: "What does that mean, 'in-famous'?"
Ned Nederlander: "Oh, Dusty. In-famous is when you're MORE than famous. This man El Guapo, he's not just famous, he's IN-famous."
Lucky Day: "100,000 pesos to perform with this El Guapo, who's probably the biggest actor to come out of Mexico!"
Dusty Bottoms: "Wow, in-famous? In-famous?"
Music, and the way it's traditionally been practiced (I have sort of a folk music and demo scene cultural background, and they are remarkably similar) doesn't necessarily fit that well with current law. The important thing here is to note that musicians generally work these things out anyway. If you use music without giving credit, then you're a jerk and other musicians will let people know that.
But any culture has different ways of doing it, and different definitions of what they think is plagiarism and being a jerk. So when hip hop culture meets demo scene culture, it's no surprise that things don't agree. I'm no expert on the former, but I would guess that obscure enough is fair game, and Timbaland might not even know who made it, or even realize that there is a person on the other end expecting some recognition for his work.
So like other posters have said, they should talk. Bringing up lawsuits and "oh, but downloading is ok?" just has nothing to do with this.
First of all, given the amount of sampling that happens with most hip-hop records these days, chances are this is just a mistake they made when reviewing the material used to produce the song. The whole sub-genre of rap mixtapes is essentially one humongous copyright infringement. I'm glad that Slashdot managed to dismiss an entire genre of music because of such an event.
I will never quite understand Slashdot's aversion to the legal system as a whole, where in the world do you NOT have an advantage with more money? Posting it to Youtube just lets more people know about it, why don't the original producers of the tune just shut up and use the branch of American government specifically designed for this type of thing, like every other legitimate business in the world?
Pllleeeassseee mod me down
I've got a peculiar interest in this. I'm a former C64 and Ami demo coder. My fledgling compositions on RockMon and ProTracker have carried through to my present day career as an audio engineer, composer and producer. To be frank I'm disgusted to see such barefaced plagiarism. People may whinge that hip-hop is unoriginal, derivative etc. Yet the fact remains that Timbaland makes lots of money from what he does, and were he to use a sample from, let's say The Rolling Stones (any musos will understand the relevance of this example) he would have had it cleared before the track was even finished, never mind being brought to account after the fact. No matter how talented the producer, lots of time in the studio is spent aimlessly shoving audio clips about, making coffee, smoking cigarettes or whatever all with the aim of coming up with a good idea. That's what a composer is paid for. It seems to me that he, or more likely one of the geekier engineers he works with, has discovered this little known seam of genius and opportunistically decided that it is their right to harvest it in the view that it is somehow less worthy, very likely unprotected and easily appropriated via the David and Goliath dialectic that typifies these situations. Another example of such plagiaristic arrogannce may be found below. Coca-cola have blatantly ripped off Joel Veitch's work for use in an Argentian ad campaign. Outwith the finer points of the argument, such behaviour is morally reprehensible and I'm sick of it. Due credit to those who create. http://www.robmanuel.com/2006/12/13/is-coke-rippin g-off-the-little-guy/
All I know about hip-hop or rap is that I personally find it boring, loud and intrusive. Why do all those people, of all ages, racial and ethnic backgrounds, drive around with that stuff blaring at maximum volume? They must be deaf! If not now, they will be soon. Sitting in my house, I find the sound from some of the cars driving by to be painfully loud. Why?
When you add in the contents of some of the lyrics I hear, all I can do is wonder about their sanity.
This is NOT a racial or ethnic thing. I live in a very multi-ethnic area and the people driving/riding in these vehicles are from all different backgrounds. For example, the one vehicle that is the most intrusive belongs to a middle aged, construction contractor who happens to be Polish. He loves to park in his driveway, across the street from our house, and share his music with all his neighbors.
For every problem there is a solution that is simple, obvious and wrong.
I agree with your point on Furtado. First album, great. Second album, pretty damn good. "Promiscuous Girl" and accompanying "music", crap. Come on, the word "promiscuous" ALONE is incredibly un-lyrical.
jX [ Make everything as simple as possible, but no simpler. - Einstein ]
Probably none. But I'll bet quite a few Americans think he's German.
There is a fine line between recklessness and courage... -- Paul McCartney
1. Yes, the early Beatles & Stones work will expire in a few years unless the BPI can overrule those who want to preserve the old music tapes in the UK. But the rules in the UK are life+70 for human beings, 50 years for corporations. So it's not the Beatles and Stones losing money as much as it's EMI and Decca--and EMI and Decca have many other sources of income.
Hey, the earliest Beatles recordings to expire in the UK, up through 1964, won't lose any Beatles anything at all: they sold their share of those recording rights for short-term cashflow.
It's true, you don't get to profit from the original recordings after the copyright expires any more than anyone else. That's the point: everyone will get a crack after that, and British rappers will rejoice.
John Lennon and George Harrison are dead and won't need the cash. Paul McCartney is an ace cover artist of his own work (mostly live, but his sub-label records live performances), so he'll be okay too...
2. Terms in America are life+70 for human beings, 120 years for corporations. Virtually all music recordings are owned by corporations.
3. Songwriting copyrights are different from recording copyrights. But really, would you object to Sony losing the Beatles catalog?
There is a fine line between recklessness and courage... -- Paul McCartney
Get a life.
I've never even HEARD of the "demoscene".
Somebody stole your "intellectual property".
Oh, boo hoo! Welcome to the real world!
At least you didn't get shot in the process.
Why is this Slashdot news?
Richard Steven Hack - This sig is TOO GODDAMN SHORT TO DO ANYTHING USEFUL WITH! MORONS!
Sue.
Find a lawyer in the right jurisdiction. Hopefully the US. Basically, you are after treble damages on songwriter royalties. For something THIS close, other royalties as well (it was sampled).
It will run on a few years -- stick with it. This is a good hunk of your retirement we are talking about here (remeber, treble?, and hopefully with someone selling millions of albums). You also need an accountant along with the lawyer.
Note that the songwriter typically takes 50% of the publishers share in co-publishing arrangements. But, you would not have signed up to that, so take it all. At three times, you can now argue for 7- to 100% of the publishers take on the album.
We are talking about millions here.
Just another "Cubible(sic) Joe" 2 17 3061
Hip-Hop is dead. and Timbaland killed it.
Note: To the pessimistic people saying "this won't ever see the light", you are dead wrong, as Slashdot+Digg+somethingawful+ many other news sites (yes fark even), plus the hundred of "Timbaland is a fraud" posts and mentions that will be made, don't DARE tell me there won't be anything done.
"No freeman shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson
I call bullshit. This concept of "originality" is oversold. All of humanities advances are built on the shoulders of those who came before us. Pretty much anything you can or will come up with has been thought up by someone else before. You might tweak the idea a little, sell it a little better, put it in a prettier package, make it more efficient or less of a pain in the @ss to use. But when it comes down to it, you really haven't done anything new.
It would be more interesting to here other samples of different songs that match up with that beat. And prior songs that match up to the "copied" song. It's out there.
Haha. Timbaland steals seven-year-old beats. Way to keep it fresh, buddy.
i dont know about you but this is what you call an cover song. this has been done since the dawn of time in pratically every music genre you can think of.
It must be true, I read it on Wikipedia.
Actually, this is an extremely common break point in mainstream morals. It's a variant of the "cry of the common wo/man" in the face of growing restrictions seriously making 1984 and Fahrenheit 451 come true.
It might be related to the fact that there's tons of *information* online, but far less music, at least of the Big Artists. I think we're in a 15 year period where public opinion is sorting itself out. Mr/Ms America wants music to be free as in beer.
My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
Yes, in this case the demoscene song may have been original, but a large portion of demoscene music is variations or straight loops of popular songs. That group of people copies songs all the time. And to show that the song was copied, they "stole" large sections of both songs to put them on youtube. Indeed, most of the things I've seen on youtube have included "stolen" songs, usually the whole thing. That group, again, violates copyright all the time. Ask any teenager if it is wrong to copy songs- nobody thinks so.
There are tons of people who enjoy creating music, books, movies etc. Most of them are shut out of the official marketplace because of heavily advertised c**p like Metallica and George Lucas. Let's just declare that there are no rights to prevent copying or claim credit. So what if Metallica in protest stops recording, plenty of people who honestly want to create will fill the void. For example, that demoscene guy who made the initial clip, I bet he would have still released it in a world with no copyright.
Plently of media will still be created by people who just want to be heard, have their work seen, etc., and that media since none of it is copy-limited will easily satisfy the world demand for media. The whiners who want to make money, let them rot, we don't need them.
Even if you personally can't change the law, you can make your voice heard, by not filling the pockets of the evil record company and talentless hacks like Britney. Pledge to never buy a CD or popularize greed by listening to commercial music, and instead listen to the tons of songs by people who actually want you to hear them- search for "creative commons" music.
Ahem... (Granted, I think they're a good fifty percent legally in the right or so, but this isn't exactly warm and fuzzy.)
Telltale Games: Bone, Sam and Max
This reminds me of a case dating to the 90's, where DJ Rolando's "Knights of the Jaguar" was totally ripped off by a big record label (was it Sony?). It was totally the same song, only released under a different artist name. Well, Underground Resistance got really pissed and in the end, I guess DJ Rolando won.
/.? Why not set up a Paypal account and start making donations to the original MOD composer!
This is a tricky situation though. If the original MOD was not copyrighted (ie. not submitted into TEOSTO, the Finnish copyright system), then I guess there's nothing "legally" wrong that Timbaland & Co. have done. Electronic dance music has a long history of plagiating / stealing others work, so nothing new under the sun. If you don't want others to fuck you over, you submit all your releases into the copyright system and get a good lawyer. If not, well, that's the breaks.
If ya'all feel so upset about this and feel sorry about someone ripping off a MOD, why do you insist on ranting about it on
I'm not on Timbaland's side, but hip-hop and rap is about reusing existing music, preferably stuff that would never be heard otherwise because no-one has ever heard about the original band/project. If "Tempest" makes the old MOD more famous now than it ever was, is that a bad thing?
In the scene, to rip is to lame and receive fuckings and be ostracised from the scene.
Ripping someone elses work is lame, but ripping a non-profit piece of work so you can turn a fat profit is just about the most fucking despicable thing in existence.
Really, they're the guys who sent the africans over as slaves... find a little bit of their music. It's scary how much like the blues it is.
He tried to kill me with a forklift!
The Finnish Composer's Copyright Society, Teosto http://www.teosto.fi/teosto/webpages.nsf should be able to help. This should be what they do. The Electronic Frontier Foundation might be able to help too http://www.eff.org/about/ You can and should get something done about this. There are people out there who will help (i.e. lawyers and organisations).
NO! :D
gotta love that screenshot
http://timbalandtempest.ytmnd.com/