Ubuntu Studio Announced

lukeknipe writes "Ubuntu has set up a page for the April release of the Ubuntu Studio. An ambitious project, it is described by Ubuntu as a 'multimedia editing flavor of Ubuntu for the Linux audio, video, and graphic enthusiast or professional who is already familiar with the Ubuntu-Gnome environment.' They've set up an Ubuntu Studios Wiki for the project, and their stated goal is to have a the package ready for use in time for 'Feisty Fawn'."

Comments

Last Rev

[jdigriz]

I am so waiting for "Zany Zebra"

Re:Last Rev

[__aaclcg7560]

I'm looking forward to "Hussy Ho" that should give Linux a certain sex appeal.

Re:Last Rev

[UED]

What happens when/if they get to "Z"?

Re:Last Rev

[Anonymous Coward]

That's 10 years away...

Re:Last Rev

[pbaer]

Hah. Once they go past "Zany Zebra", I can't wait for Anty Aardvark Ate Apples. Followed by Brown Bear Brings Beer.

Re:Last Rev

[Clazzy]

They didn't start at A anyway, Warty Warthog > Hoary Hedgehog > Breezy Badger > Dapper Drake > Edgy Eft > Feisty Fawn. There's nothng stopping them from having another release with the same letter. Besides, it's only a codename, there's still the year.month system they have to distinguish releases.

Re:Last Rev

[sentientbeing]

They start again only using double letters:

AArdvark...,

Ok I got nothing.

Re:Last Rev

[GreatBunzinni]

Actually Ubuntu's first release was nicknamed "Dirty Sanchez", which was the source of that distribution's distinguished choice of color scheme.

Re:Last Rev

[miceyman]

Aaron Aardvark? Hmmm... sounds more like a stuffed animal than open source software. I tried!

Re:Last Rev

[FishWithAHammer]

First release? Some of us still call it that.

Re:Last Rev

[Anonymous Coward]

how many letters will they go through before they get it right?

Re:Last Rev

[zogger]

I like Randy Rhino

Re:Last Rev

[Anonymous Coward]

26 in the english language, not sure how many languages they will use, cause that will give them plenty more.

Re:Last Rev

[ChunderDownunder]

Why not Linux Lass, the superheroine?

Re:Last Rev

[SeaFox]

They didn't start at A anyway, Warty Warthog > Hoary Hedgehog > Breezy Badger > Dapper Drake > Edgy Eft > Feisty Fawn.

Let's see "Gregarious Grizzly" next.

Re:Last Rev

[schotty]

Mmmmm.... Beer ....

Re:Last Rev

[Anonymous Coward]

That's odd because Ubuntu was elected the finest linux distribution there is.

Re:Last Rev

[BecomingLumberg]

Because that has taken two types of nerdom and combined it into the super-dweeb?

[I keed, I keed...]

Re:Last Rev

[jo42]

May I suggest "Flaming Goatse"?

Re:Last Rev

[Anonymous Coward]

Which is not saying much

Wake me up...

[stormeru]

...when they actually release something!
Anyone can plan to do something, but how many of those projects are finished?

I for one doesn't welcome our new Ubuntu Multimedia Overlords, but wish them luck!

Re:Wake me up...

[Whiney Mac Fanboy]

Anyone can plan to do something, but how many of those projects are finished?

Anyone can plan a well-polished gnome based distro, but Ubuntu are one of few who've delivered.

I'd give alot more credence to a well funded organisation with a proven track record than the announcement of YALM project.

If they're announcing, they're probably confident about delivering.

Re:Wake me up...

[Jacer]

In the Linux community if you want something to happen, get involved. They've got an irc channel listed there so that you can come in and drop some input. Get an RC and help sort out some of the bugs. Give them a hand. I hate developing when I'm getting paid. I can't imagine how it must be to have a thankless development job.

Re:Wake me up...

[Jerome H]

I hate developing when I'm getting paid

Maybe you should try an other job ?

Re:Wake me up...

[Jacer]

I'd love a different job, but I don't want to work fast food, and until I graduate I'm stuck supporting some code that was written before I was born that's pretty much devoid of comments

Good news

[dotslashdot]

This will really help attract even more dedicated linux users. As a multimedia enthusiast, I left Linux because of the lack of multimedia support that was integrated to some level and that worked. Hopefully this will bring back some others who may have left for the same reasons.

Re:Good news

[Aladrin]

Did you read their page at all? Their wiki says their plan includes "Use only packages in official Ubuntu repositories" ... That'd make it just plain Ubuntu, but with certain packages preloaded, rather than the current defaults. Just like Kubuntu and Xubuntu do.

Maybe a neat idea, but I wouldn't put much effort into it if it was my baby, and I certainly don't approve of the slashvertising of it before it's really even started. Vaporware is a BAD thing for Linux.

Re:Good news

[gEvil (beta)]

...I certainly don't approve of the slashvertising of it before it's really even started. Vaporware is a BAD thing for Linux.

Oh, good one! Now you've just blown *any* chance of us ever seeing Duke Nukem Forever come out for Linux...

Re:Good news

[zotz]

[Did you read their page at all? Their wiki says their plan includes "Use only packages in official Ubuntu repositories"]

I read some, poking around on the wiki it seems like they are working on getting the packages that they want to use, and that are not currently in the repositories, into the repositories.

So you are right, but your statement doesn't capture the whole picture from what I can tell in a short time.

A decent "audio" (low enough latency for ardour multitrack recording - say 24 tracks recording at once would be nice, 10 ok) kernel in the repositories would be a big step in the right direction as far as I am concerned.

all the best,

drew

Re:Good news

[Aladrin]

I am not an artist, I'm a programmer, so I can't really say exactly what needs to be done to make Linux handle audio/video/graphics for professionals, but simple re-arranging the packages isn't much of a step. I'll agree that it's in the right direction, but it seems a LOT of work for nearly no benefit. It's not as if you can't just apt-get everything they are including from a standard install.

If the apps were all top-notch already, I could see it being worthwhile. I prefer Kubuntu over straight Ubuntu myself, and I realize I could just use Ubuntu and apt-get the packages. But I think there's a lot more to setting up Ubuntu to be KDE rather than Gnome than there is to get all the audio apps.

Even making an exact list of what needs to be done to make Linux audio/video/graphics production better would be a better step, in my eyes. At least some programmer can look at the list and say 'Oh, that's needs doing? I can do that.'

Re:Good news

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't forget that Ubuntu will soon be shipping proprietary codecs. This will solve many of their problems IMHO.

Re:Good news

[zotz]

"I am not an artist, I'm a programmer, so I can't really say exactly what needs to be done to make Linux handle audio/video/graphics for professionals, but simple re-arranging the packages isn't much of a step."

Well, audio with ardour really needs a low latency kernel. Having this come in the repositories would be a big help.

Being able to install a desktop setup primarily for audio or video, etc. will be nice if perhaps not ground breaking. Still, I would not underestimate the possible power of doing something like this.

"But I think there's a lot more to setting up Ubuntu to be KDE rather than Gnome than there is to get all the audio apps."

Perhaps, but if you think having to patch a vanilla kernel has been within easy reach of people more in tune with media producion than programming, I think you are underestimating that issue.

all the best,

drew

Re:Good news

[Aladrin]

Again, that'd be WONDERFUL if that's what they were planning to do. They said they are not adding any packages. That includes custom builds of stuff that's already in there, as that would be a new package.

Re:Good news

[zotz]

"Again, that'd be WONDERFUL if that's what they were planning to do."

This is the page that made me think they may be adding some packages that weren't currently in ubuntu. (Adding them to ubuntu that is.)

https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/ToPackage

Is it semantics? The are only going to use packages that are in ubuntu, not add any special ones to ubuntustudio. BUT, they are going to add ones they want but are not currently in ubuntu to ubuntu instead. Is that what is going on?

all the best,

drew

Re:Good news

[Aladrin]

Yeah. The page I was reading would have been better to say "Use only official Ubuntu repositories." From that page you linked to, they are obviously trying to improve those repositories in order to accomplish their goal.

Re:Good news

[Anonymous Coward]

"Maybe a neat idea, but I wouldn't put much effort into it if it was my baby, and I certainly don't approve of the slashvertising of it before it's really even started. Vaporware is a BAD thing for Linux."

Funny. My first thought when I read the article was "cool!"

guess it takes all types.

Yep, bloatware, and a mediocre one

[El Lobo]

The studio is hyped as "a multimedia, audio, video and graphic giant for enthusiasts and professionals" but browsing the pack of programs distributed with the distro I have nothing more to say that: Are you sure that this is for the pro? I mean, graphic pro-men use Photoshop, that is the only graphi program that can work with really big images (and it does it well). Try opening a 56 GB image with GIMP and watch it paifully die.

Animation guys use Maya, WheelBuck or something similar, but there is NOTHING of similar quality here (or freeware or OS for that matter).

Ok call me a troll if you want, but DON*T TELL ME for fuck sakes that this is for the pro.

Re:Yep, bloatware, and a mediocre one

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm afraid that even in the hands of a "pro" Photoshop has a hard time producing music...

Re:Yep, bloatware, and a mediocre one

[Anonymous Coward]

Photoshop is a complete joke. Nobody uses that piece of shit anymore. The world moved to Shake years ago.

Glass

Re:Yep, bloatware, and a mediocre one

[lixee]

Your sig betrays you!

Try opening a 56 GB image with GIMP and watch it paifully die.

Last time I checked, XP couldn't allocate more than 2 GB to a process.

Re:Yep, bloatware, and a mediocre one

[evilviper]

I mean, graphic pro-men use Photoshop, that is the only graphi program that can work with really big images (and it does it well). Try opening a 56 GB image with GIMP and watch it paifully die.

Your advertisement for Photoshop belongs elsewhere.

If this is your only specific complaint, I can quite easily dismiss you by saying that a great many paid professionals don't want or need to handle "56 GB" images.

Animation guys use Maya, WheelBuck or something similar,

What theoretical "guys" use is irrelevent.

but there is NOTHING of similar quality here (or freeware or OS for that matter).

Everything is still in development, so that list will change. Besides, you aren't even constructively criticising, you're just bitching and whining that proprietary apps are (magically?) better.

Ok call me a troll if you want, but DON*T TELL ME for fuck sakes that this is for the pro.

You are, and it still is.

Re:Yep, bloatware, and a mediocre one

[Whiney Mac Fanboy]

Ok call me a troll if you want, but DON*T TELL ME for fuck sakes that this is for the pro.

You are trolling.

Your complaint seems to be specifically about the GIMP/Photoshop. Fine, many photo professionals use photoshop & won't accept anything else *shrugs*.

However, to conflate all multimedia users with PS users is....stupid.

For instance, users of cinepaint for instance will dismiss photoshop as a "useless toy". They're not correct (its just not the tool for their job) - but neither are you.

Re:Yep, bloatware, and a mediocre one

[evilviper]

You really don't need to load an entire file in order to edit it (There are some exceptions, of course)... Which is good, because I would hate to load my entire hard drive into RAM, to make any minor changes to it.

You can stick to loading reasonably small segments of it at a time, and in the case of images, only low-res previews of the entire image if/when needed.

Re:Yep, bloatware, and a mediocre one

[goaty_the_flying_sho]

They make Maya for Linux.

Re:Yep, bloatware, and a mediocre one

[Anonymous Coward]

There's also XSI and Houdini and few others for linux. Most of the big 3d and composting packages have been ported to linux. I know because I make a living using such programs on linux, as to many others.

Re:Yep, bloatware, and a mediocre one

[im_thatoneguy]

Let's see I'm a pro and I use:

3D Studio Max, XSI, Maya, Zbrush, Avid, Fusion, Nuke, Combustion and Photoshop.

Only one platform runs all of those: Windows.
None of those programs are included in this "multimedia pack for professionals". So uhh yeah, my complaint is with the parent... this isn't a professional package at all.

If you use Photoshop day in and day out you would know that Gimp isn't acceptable. And it's not because it doesn't load obscenely large files it's because it's a sub-par application.

Re:Yep, bloatware, and a mediocre one

[FST777]

Unfortunately, the GP is right about PS vs Gimp. I love the Gimp, use it daily in combination with Inkscape. But when playtime is over and I actually have to produce results, I'm forced to convert it all to Photoshop/Illustrator/InDesign so that the printer can handle it.

It is especially the lack of decent support for CMYK in most OSS apps that causes that. And PDF-export in all OSS apps just misses the features that are needed for professional printing, even if CMYK where into place.

Re:Yep, bloatware, and a mediocre one

[Grey Ninja]

Pixar doesn't render their movies on Macs or Windows PCs. Wanna take a wild guess what they use? Same goes for ILM. Linkie. So yeah, take your uninformed opinions and shove them.

Re:Yep, bloatware, and a mediocre one

[evilviper]

Let's see I'm a pro and I use:

3D Studio Max, XSI, Maya, Zbrush, Avid, Fusion, Nuke, Combustion and Photoshop.

I see. Therefore: Anyone else who is a pro MUST be using all the same programs you do. And because you aren't already using free programs, they must not possibly be able to do the same job.

Either you're a complete fool, or just trolling.

If you use Photoshop day in and day out you would know that Gimp isn't acceptable.

Nicely done. No reasoning. No justification. Just the word of God. No matter what, anything named "Gimp" can't do the things programs named "Photoshop" can.

Re:Yep, bloatware, and a mediocre one

[im_thatoneguy]

Yes but his point still stands... Renderman and Mentalray also aren't included with this distro. So just because it "exists" doesn't mean it's relevant to Ubuntu Multimedia edition.

Re:Yep, bloatware, and a mediocre one

[im_thatoneguy]

I'm going to assume you aren't making a stupid joke. Comparing the two is like comparing Linux and MySQL and suggesing a migration from one to the other is equally stupid.

Re:Yep, bloatware, and a mediocre one

[Grey Ninja]

His point was that Linux was useless to the professional artist. It isn't.

Re:Yep, bloatware, and a mediocre one

[loganrapp]

see. Therefore: Anyone else who is a pro MUST be using all the same programs you do. And because you aren't already using free programs, they must not possibly be able to do the same job. For example: I use Final Cut Pro and Adobe Premiere. One's for Mac, the other's for PC (but will be for Mac again soon). So, uh, how does that fit with that... y'know, view? Chances are, this won't make me switch away from those two, but I will definitely be keeping my eye on it. Maybe in five years or so we'll see it get polished to the point of rivaling FCP.

Re:Yep, bloatware, and a mediocre one

[im_thatoneguy]

No but I've used a Tiff file before for the background sound effect of a starship engine. (Which I edited in Photoshop.)

Serious.

Re:Yep, bloatware, and a mediocre one

[Anonymous Coward]

I believe there are problems with full CMYK support due to software patents. Sucks, but there's not a lot we can do about it (other than quasi-legal workarounds like Mplayer's win32-codecs.)

Re:Yep, bloatware, and a mediocre one

[killjoe]

What do you mean "decent" cmyk support? Do you mean there is no support or that the support is lacking in some way. If the latter could you be specific.

Always remember that open source only works when YOU contribute and sorry but whining does not count as contributing.

Re:Yep, bloatware, and a mediocre one

[FST777]

There are OSS programs out there with support for CMYK. KOffice (Krita?) comes to mind, but I'm not too sure. In most programs though, support is lacking.

I KNOW that open souce only works when I, and all other users, contribute. Point is: I can only contribute for as far as my knowledge and skills go, not? I'm not a C++-programmer, I'm a webprogrammer and graphic designer. Whenever I can contribute with bug-reports or pieces of code I actually understand, I do it. But that doesn't occur much.

I'm much better at evangelising Open Source. And sorry, but whining about me whining doesn't help the talk one bit.

Re:Yep, bloatware, and a mediocre one

[im_thatoneguy]

No I know people who use: FCP, Shake, Pro Tools, Smoke, Inferno, Gimp (but he admits he only uses it as a hobby, for real work he switches back to XSI), Modo, Mudbox, Cinepaint, Vue, Audition, Zeno and a million other applications large and small. Proprietary and Free. I use hundreds of open source tools. I even have some scripts that I wrote for 3D Studio Max that run off of a MySQL server.

I've tried Gimp. I worked at a start up studio and for a while they were still even in the buying phase and hadn't picked up a copy of Photoshop yet for the modelers. So we all used Gimp. It was obnoxious. I don't hold any sort of dogmatic appreciation for one piece of software over another. I am constantly changing software and hold no allegiance to manufacturer, distribution model or OS. I use Shake on Linux and Mac (the linux version is much much faster, or at least it was before 4.1 and Intel processors, I havne't used that release yet.). I use any tool I can find that does cool stuff and helps me work faster. If Photoshop became "Gibbed" and was released as open source, and Gimp got renamed as "Photoshop" I would migrate to Gibbed. If something really cool was as good or better than photoshop and was Open Source or even just free I would grab it immediately. I just learned Zbrush after several years and now Mudbox is out. After playing with it I want to add it to my toolset as well.

When it comes to editors: There is Avid, Smoke, Premiere/FCP (practically the same application) and Vegas. Vegas is annoying as hell to edit with on anything longer than 10 minutes so that leaves two options. The current offerings in the Open Source market are useless. Although Smoke does run on Linux, so that would be my preferred "Linux Video Editor". Avid/Premiere/FCP is just a matter of preference and platform choice.

So while I don't say what I use are the only options (far from it, and even then I didn't even list all the stuff I use. I'm using premiere right now at work while editing a reel. I've used FCP on projects in the past. I've sat at a smoke station briefly.) I do know what my options are because I've tried just about all of them. I've talked to people who have also tried them. I research products. I read reviews. And this package is not all that useful for a working professional right now in the visual fields. And not just because of small things like when a Nuke compositor is annoyed with Fusion. These are big huge deal breaker problems in just about every single selection.

Re:Yep, bloatware, and a mediocre one

[atrus]

If you use Photoshop day in and day out you would know that Gimp isn't acceptable.

Nicely done. No reasoning. No justification. Just the word of God. No matter what, anything named "Gimp" can't do the things programs named "Photoshop" can.

Here is one: Color management. Its a HUGE missing feature from GIMP (and Linux display systems). I'm not saying Windows color management is good (like in multi monitor support on one graphics card....), but it at least works. So no, for many professional users, GIMP cannot replace Photoshop as GIMP has no notion of color spaces, soft proofing, etc.

Re:Yep, bloatware, and a mediocre one

[Anonymous Coward]

AFAIK it's completely missing.
The reason for this is because its nigh impossible to add it at this point since the gimp was build with only RGB in mind (AFAIK again)
this is one of the main reasons they are rebuilding the nitty gritty of the gimp from scratch.
the project name is GEGL and currently in a 0.0.6 release.

feature list now on the website contains:
        * 8bit, 16bit integer and 32bit floating point, RGB, CIE Lab, YCbCr and naive CMYK output.
        * Extendable through plug-ins.
        * XML, C and Python interfaces.
        * Memory efficient evaluation of subregions.
        * Tiled, sparse, pyramidial and larger than RAM buffers.
        * Hit detection.
        * Rich core set of processing operations
                    o PNG, JPEG, SVG, EXR, RAW and other image sources.
                    o Arithmetic operations, porter duff compositing operations, SVG blend modes, other blend modes, apply mask.
                    o Gaussian blur.
                    o Basic color correction tools.
                    o 32bit floating point for intermediate values.
                    o Text layouting using pango

If this hits a stable release and gets incorrperated in stable gimp, it will probebly wipe away more then half the arguments most 'pro photoshop users' have with the gimp.

Offcourse it wont do away with the 'the ui of the gimp sucks' argument, but as someone who works with the gimp daily for webdesign i can throw that right back at them. imho photoshops ui sucks.
But meh, where talking about people here who can also make statements like "You can't design on a pc, only on a mac"

Re:Yep, bloatware, and a mediocre one

[Anonymous Coward]

Tried Scribus ever? Fantastic PDF output, extremely versatile, and supports loads of PDF features, is capable of generating PDF 1.4, PDF/X-3, or pretty much any other profile you can care to mention. Can and has been used for all kinds of professional printing stuff. Also has CMYK, colour management, supports spot colours, and so on...

I don't know what kind of incompetent printers you must be using if they're incapable of printing stuff that wasn't output by Photoshop/Illustrator/InDesign.

Re:Yep, bloatware, and a mediocre one

[im_thatoneguy]

Yeah but he wasn't saying Linux is useless for professionals. He was saying this pack didn't include any of the useful tools for professionals that runs on linux:

Shake, Maya, XSI etc...

Re:Yep, bloatware, and a mediocre one

[Grey Ninja]

But I would argue that it was implied. I mean, he's saying how much better Photoshop is than the GIMP. Last I checked, Photoshop was NOT included with Windows. The professional video editing tools for Linux are more robust and mature than the ones for Windows.

The way I see Ubuntu Studio is that it's a collection of the finest open source artist's tools compiled into one package, on a Linux OS. If you want to install some third party software, like Maya or Renderman, you are perfectly free to do so. Just as you are with Windows.

Re:Yep, bloatware, and a mediocre one

[im_thatoneguy]

Depends on what you define as whining.

The problem I've had with just about every single large Open Source project is it requires me to contribute. I don't want to contribute to it, I want to use it. If I had time to contribute I would be a software developer not an artist. This is why projects like Apache do very well in an Open Source environment. People who use it, contribute to it and make it better, because using it is improving it.

Re:Yep, bloatware, and a mediocre one

[im_thatoneguy]

Photoshop desperately needs some competition to force them to rethink their UI. CS3 is different, I haven't had time to look at it yet, but hopefully it's brand spanking new.

And for christ's sake how about CTRL + DRAG brush resizing... they're only the last major paint application to not implement it: Painter, Combustion etc...

P.S. as of the last update of Gimp I used, you couldn't resize brushes, you had to create a new brush at a different size. That = Garbage Bin alone. It might have changed by now.

Re:Yep, bloatware, and a mediocre one

[Kjella]

Last time I checked, XP couldn't allocate more than 2 GB to a process.

And yet, we work with >2GB video files without problems. If you have a 56GB bmp image or something like that, there's nothing wrong with being able to edit that taking whatever is in your viewport into memory. I'm not saying it'd be easy, pretty or even useful, but it's certainly possible. But if that's the best FUD they can come up with, GIMP has come a long way in any case...

Re:Yep, bloatware, and a mediocre one

[im_thatoneguy]

The only mature video editing tools for Linux are Smoke and Fire both are in the high 5 to low 6 digit price range. And both were only ported to Linux several years ago. If you want 'robust and mature' you want Avid, it was one of the first and it's still imo the best for the money. It does not, however, run on Linux.

The open source offerings are barely competing with Windows Movie Maker and iMovie.

Re:Yep, bloatware, and a mediocre one

[MrHanky]

It all depends on which pro. Sure all advertising professionals will prefer Photoshop to Gimp, but what if you're an experimental artist working with computerised visualisations? Then you'll probably appreciate Gimp's superior scriptability. Or more likely, you'd use something like Pure Data, which is about as far as you can come from Adobe's CS suite in usability and slickness. Some professionals use power tools, and know their tools well. Power tools are crude.

Re:Yep, bloatware, and a mediocre one

[LetterRip]

"Let's see I'm a pro and I use:

3D Studio Max, XSI, Maya, Zbrush, Avid, Fusion, Nuke, Combustion and Photoshop.

Only one platform runs all of those: Windows.
None of those programs are included in this "multimedia pack for professionals". So uhh yeah, my complaint is with the parent... this isn't a professional package at all."

You clearly haven't tried the latest version of Blender :) It is a reasonable replacement for many professional users and we do get people who are migrating from those various packages (although more are coming from Lightwave, Cinema 4D, Truespace, and other lower end packages) As a professional 3D artist you will find Blenders mesh modeling tools fairly comparable for SubD modeling; sculpting tools fairly comparable to zbrush (although with tradeoffs and limitations - we have native retopology currently but lack masking capabilites so you can only hide mesh); uv unwrapping that is superior to all of those listed; node based texturing is fairly comparable - it lacks certain shaders specifically a SSS shader. But given the list of software it sounds more like it will tend to be work that Blenders internal renderer is suited for (really it depends on a case by case basis). Its node based compositing and non linear editing (sequencing) are quite good - but not likely to knock any of the top end software out currently. While I don't expect current users of other major 3D packages to migrate to Blender as a replacement for their existing software (why go elsewhere when they already have a pipeline that meets their needs). Blender is already quite well suited for many professionals needs and is already in heavy usage by a number of small and mid sized studios for commercial 3D work (print and video advertising, architectural rendering, scientific visualization, feature animations, etc). It also is being used in some major studios unfortunately most are requiring NDAs about software used in their pipeline although we are seeking permission to do interviews with some artists on major projects that it has been revealed that Blender was used for.

Of course Blender isn't suited for all 3D animation tasks currently - I'd recommend against it for photoreal rendering involving animation of people; and against if for special effects work involving smoke and flame (ie volumetric rendering) and certain complex particle effects.

However that is a subset of all animation work - and those can and ofter are handled with specially dedicated software.

Just because a set of software that meets your professional needs isn't provided, doesn't mean that the professional requirements of others aren't being met.

LetterRip

Re:Yep, bloatware, and a mediocre one

[Anonymous Coward]

XSI (SoftImage) sells a version for Linux.

Re:Yep, bloatware, and a mediocre one

[ozmanjusri]

P.S. as of the last update of Gimp I used, you couldn't resize brushes

You make yourself a new brush and assign context-brush-radius-increase and decrease actions to the scroll wheel. Working that way, I find I can resize without thinking.

The whole argument seems silly to me. I started out using Deluxe Paint on the Amiga, and have used dozens of different image editors over the years. I've used Photoshop since version 3, and I'm as comfortable with PS as with the Gimp - they're both just tools for getting a job done.

Being professional doesn't mean being precious. Gimp is easily one of the most capable of the current crop of image editors, and it's free. You can carry a copy on a USB stick and use it anywhere. Why wouldn't you learn to use it?

Re:Yep, bloatware, and a mediocre one

[Anonymous Coward]

Those who keep up with their news know that 2.4 will do color management. Color spaces are a seperate issue, don't lumpo them together.

Re:Yep, bloatware, and a mediocre one

[cheater512]

Videos are streamed when your opening them. The entire video doesnt need to be in ram at one time.

With graphics its technically possible but it would be one nasty hack.
Slow too.

Re:Yep, bloatware, and a mediocre one

[cheater512]

You havent considered that this could be the push needed to get some truely professional and open replacements?

Re:Yep, bloatware, and a mediocre one

[arose]

AFAIK Scribus has excelent PDF export. I also wonder why every time professional graphics editing is discussed everyone jumps on the CMYK gun as if web, games and TV don't have graphics.

Re:Yep, bloatware, and a mediocre one

[cheater512]

There was Maya for Linux. Not sure what happened to it.

I'm pretty sure the Linux renderer still exists because thats what all the 3d movies are rendered with.

Re:Yep, bloatware, and a mediocre one

[arose]

Windows Movie Maker and iMovie do clusters & HD video? Cinelerra does...

Re:Yep, bloatware, and a mediocre one

[FST777]

Most (if not all) printers in the Netherlands are requiring one of the following formats for decent output: CMYK-JPEG, EPS, PDF, PSD, AI. Even InDesign is badly supported overall. I have not yet met a printer who actually knew about PNG and SVG.

The guys at the printshops all use Macs with Photoshop and Illustrator. Anything else that comes their way is "unprofessional", "not adhering to standards in the branche" and "unprocessable". So a print-ready file is one made up in Illustrator, using CMYK, with all text converted to pad (or else their Mac-version will screw it up). Don't dare to insert one single RGB JPEG, or else they'll return it immediately.

Re:Yep, bloatware, and a mediocre one

[Klanglor]

I do want to add some constructive comments about GIMP, although this is not a GIMP forum. It does need a lot of refinement to remove a lot of its annoyance. to start with it has a annoying resource usage. and this is what i mean, it loads, then it works then it loads. its like when your a newbie driving a car, speed, stop speed, stop.. its really annoying. Photoshop its like DAMMIT LOAD UP!!! LOAD UP!!!! and i mean once its loaded, it doesn't break as much its smooth between the task.

my point is once single delay fell less stressing that many small breaks. its emotional, firefox had the same problem in the older version, when you think you have something it shows half and your just pissed cuz you have to wait. where as the new ie and firefox 2.0 it loads the whole bulk and dump it it. its not really much faster, its emotional.

Most of the Opensource software need to understand what is the underlying emotional stress. Paid software holds study groups to study how end users uses the software, or tries to use the software then add the feature. to make it flow the way a end user expects it. (some call this UI Ergonomy )

Linux has LUG chapters all around the world, it should be easy to collect survey data. every now and then there are newbie linux users that shows up. We just need a marketing savy leader to create some sort of check point per software. collect the data and cruch it.

Re:Yep, bloatware, and a mediocre one

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, iMovie does HD ;-)

Re:Yep, bloatware, and a mediocre one

[Anonymous Coward]

There still is. It's released at the same time/version as the windows/mac.

Re:Yep, bloatware, and a mediocre one

[westlake]

Pixar doesn't render their movies on Macs or Windows PCs

The key word here is "render."

Re:Yep, bloatware, and a mediocre one

[xtracto]

You hit the nail with that one. I *am* a programmer. I like open source software and I appreciate the OS community/karma. However some (most of the OSS ?) programmers have this weird notion that you can not say their program is ugly or bad or does not work for X or Y or Z. Any kind of criticism (good or bad) will be answered with "why dont you make your own software" or "so what it is free" or even... "fuck off".

That state of the issues is very sad. You might think it is a problem of the open source community but, just one or two days ago there was a story running on slashdot asking "why are IT people always jerks"?.

Of course not all of them are like that... but there is a high concentration of jerks doing Open Source.

I could understand why *you* would not like to contribute with those kind of projects which to be sincere *really* need some help of UI designers and alike. Same thing with games... no graphic designer wants to "contribute" to the open source community (or it is very hard) but I am afraid it is because of the arrogance of developers.

Re:Yep, bloatware, and a mediocre one

[Anonymous Coward]

> Gimp (but he admits he only uses it as a hobby, for real work he switches back to XSI)

Are you confusing GIMP and Blender or PS and XSI here?

As a long time Gimp user, Photoshop annoys the hell out of me, I actually prefer the Gimp interface. How is Blender's sculpt mode shaping up against zbrush*, silo2 and mudbox?

* Nobody who invested the time to learn zb can complain about the Gimp interface!

Re:Yep, bloatware, and a mediocre one

[Hackeron]

To anyone who can't be bothered reading the 4 paragraphs, here's a summary: opensource is useless for the working professional right now in the visual field.

Why? -- Doesn't say.

Re:Yep, bloatware, and a mediocre one

[Hackeron]

Wish I had mod points, most informative post I've seen in a while.

Re:Yep, bloatware, and a mediocre one

[arose]

It's no coincidence I mentioned those two side by side. Rendering effects for HD can get really slow.

Re:Yep, bloatware, and a mediocre one

[jZnat]

With graphics its technically possible but it would be one nasty hack.

What about using mmap(2)?

Re:Yep, bloatware, and a mediocre one

[shish]

None of those programs are included ... this isn't a professional package at all.

Since when is "what I personally use" the definitive list of "programs that are professional"?

Re:Yep, bloatware, and a mediocre one

[vga_init]

this isn't a professional package at all.

If you're saying that because professionals don't use it, I'm wondering what kind of logic you are using because it doesn't exist yet.

Secondly, if you are reasoning "I'm a professional, and I don't use this software, therefore if someone uses this software, they aren't a professional," then I would also be rather skeptical of that line of thinking. Being a professional usually has to do with whether or not you are generating income, and I doubt that no one has ever profited from the use of the software that is going to be included.

Re:Yep, bloatware, and a mediocre one

[McDutchie]

Of course not all of them are like that... but there is a high concentration of jerks doing Open Source.

Let's see, we're talking about two groups of people here:

1. Programmers who donate their time and the product of same to the public at large out of the goodness of their hearts, without expecting monetary compensation in return.
2. End users who bitch when the product in question, to which they refuse to contribute anything at all, does not meet their expectations.

And you're saying group number one are the jerks? Your ideas are intriguing, and I would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

Meanwhile, here's a hint to group number two: try showing some contents out of your wallet to the applicable group one member(s) if you don't like how their software works. I bet the chances of it getting fixed will instantly go up a thousand fold.

Re:Yep, bloatware, and a mediocre one

[westyvw]

Did you happen to see monster house? I watched the extras from the DVD the other day. They are using Blender. If a major motion picture, with a highly sophisticated 3d and person effects uses it, why isnt it good enough for us?

They used a cool trick too, they made the camera seem more realistic by using a hand held camera device to aim the camera that was viewing the rendered screens, making it seem more like a real director.

Re:Yep, bloatware, and a mediocre one

[killjoe]

I have never seen a more rude, impolite, asshole group then people who steal photoshop and then bitch at gimp users because it's not photoshop. They are truly the worst scum of the planet and I can certainly emphasize with any programmer who wants to choke them to death.

A while back they had a logo contest and one entry was "it's free so quit your bitching". I wish they would have adopted that.

Anyway there is no way a bunch of programmers who give you free software can be compared to photoshop users. One are angels, the other scum.

Re:Yep, bloatware, and a mediocre one

[Ash-Fox]

If you use Photoshop day in and day out you would know that Gimp isn't acceptable.

What about Krita?

Re:Yep, bloatware, and a mediocre one

[amygdalae]

What? Imageworks didnt use Blender for Monster House. Imageworks doenst use Blender for ANYTHING. I worked on the movie for over a year. The commercial apps used were: Diva -> MotionBuilder -> Maya -> mArny Arnold pluging / Arnold renderer -> Bonsai (proprietary compositing) No Blender. As far as I know, Blender hasnt been used on ANY feature films. I have tried it out, and it's certainly educational to have an open source 3d app, but comparing it with XSI, Maya, and other commercial products simply isnt viable.

Re:Yep, bloatware, and a mediocre one

[cheater512]

Windows wont let a process allocate more than 2 gig.

(Not sure about specifics but I'm pretty sure there is no way around it. Doesnt affect other OSs)

Re:Yep, bloatware, and a mediocre one

[amygdalae]

Wanna know the primary reason why Pixar, ILM, Imageworks, Weta, etc use linux renderfarms? It's free and it was the most logical platform jump for all of the shops that started out with SGIs running irix. Not to mention all the other apps we rely on are either commercial or proprietary and supported by a significantly large team of engineers. Any open source stuff anyone uses is at the OS or utility level. We use gimp for quick and stupid stuff (like maya shelf icons), or launch Photoshop w/ emulation. Anyone doing serious paint work uses Photoshop on OSX. Anyone doing serious editing work uses Avid on windows or Final Cut Pro on OSX. It's not that linux is useless, it isnt. But alot of those open source 3d, editing, paint, audio apps are well, pretty much useless to the 'Pro'.

Re:Yep, bloatware, and a mediocre one

[StreetStealth]

I'm an interaction designer and would love to contribute to the UI design of a couple of OSS apps. The problem is, most of these projects seem to have this notion that graphic design is *pretty-looking pixmaps* when, of course, that's pretty much the last thing a competent designer would care about when designing an interface. Devs seem to think that interaction design is purely a dev job, when collaboration and communication are what's really needed.

Re:Yep, bloatware, and a mediocre one

[westyvw]

Wow do I look stupid. Your right. I was thinking about the O'Reilly Python book that you can clearly see sitting in the frame during the discussion of the animation. The interface looked surprisingly familiar, Blender. A search of Blender and Monster House gave results, but it was do to Elephants Dream. I wasn't paying attention and associated the two. Ah well, thanks for clearing that up.

Re:Yep, bloatware, and a mediocre one

[im_thatoneguy]

Hahah whoops. Yep I meant Blender.

> How is Blender's sculpt mode shaping up against zbrush*, silo2 and mudbox?

It's not. Because it's not designed to handle hundreds of millions of polygons. It would probably require a full rewrite to function effectively. This is the same problem Maya, Max and XSI have. (Although there is a plugin for Max which sort of implements a semi functional version (Polyspeed)).

Re:Yep, bloatware, and a mediocre one

[im_thatoneguy]

As a joke a friend and I used it on Spiderman 3. But not for anything useful, just to say we did. We just created a plane and exported it as an OBJ. Although I'm not sure if we ended up using that plane...

Re:Yep, bloatware, and a mediocre one

[im_thatoneguy]

>As a professional 3D artist you will find Blenders mesh modeling tools fairly comparable for SubD modeling.
Maybe with Maya's, but Maya's imo are pretty poor and all of the main apps now have inexpensive plug-ins to add Modo level functionality.

>sculpting tools fairly comparable to zbrush (although with tradeoffs and limitations - we have native retopology currently but lack masking capabilites so you can only hide mesh).
But the engine wasn't designed to handle millions upon millions of polygons in real time, so if it's hampered by interaction it's not going to catch on. This is the problem Maya, max and XSI face with their sculpting tools. Fine for quick tweaks, but not for a dedicated sculpting app. Interaction is almost Feature #1 on a digital sculpting app.

>uv unwrapping that is superior to all of those listed.
Actually it uses the same algorithm as Max's PeltMapper. Also Maya and XSI have implementations now. Plus Gator is pretty freaking cool for low poly stuff.

>node based texturing is fairly comparable - it lacks certain shaders specifically a SSS shader.
But it lacks a good DX shader creation system.

When your rates are > than $100 an hour, it doesn't take much time saving to pay off a new application every 18 months. That's the problem Blender is facing. It's doing quite well. It's easily comparable to the best 3d application a few years ago, but "fairly good", "Almost as fast" and "reasonable" aren't adjectives when the clock is running. That's why studios will buy both Mudbox and Zbrush. The only software that usually gets used isn't software that's "Almost as good as A" it's software that's the best for that task. And there is nothing that Blender does best. It's in a game of catch-up and I feel like it's investing too much time into the frivolous externalities like liquid sim, that aren't going to convince people to pick it up in their pipeline. Look at Modo. It offered the best modelling tools and it exploded onto the scene, because it had something to offer. I can't think of a single thing which makes me want to add Blender to my pipeline over something I already have.

Once Blender has a trojan feature to worm its way into the pipelines it'll get the attention it needs across the board to be really really competitive.

I would start with just blatantly ripping off all of the neat Silo/Modo features for modelling. Then hit the animation side in full force, get those tools up to snuff, then rendering and finally start adding dynamics and "fun" features.

Why in that order? Because models are easily transferable inbetween apps. Pipelines are modeler agnostic right now. You could model in ASCII and most pipelines wouldn't care. If blender just showed up one day with the most powerful modelling package, it would be adopted left and right. And it would give people a chance to explore the other features while they're there.

Re:Yep, bloatware, and a mediocre one

[Artifakt]

Except we are not automatically talking about "goodness of their hearts" just because there's no money involved. 'No monetary compensation' is not necessarily the same as 'no compensation at all', either.

(Rant mode: on)

I've seen plenty of people involved who answer all criticism with "It's free, don't like it, shut up!", etc. In most cases, there are costs attached, often hidden costs that the coder is reluctant to have dragged out into the open and called what they are.
I knew a graphic designer/programmer once who did 23 skins in a package, all in blue shades, and answered all requests for something in green, gray, red, etc. with a lot of foul language and calling people stupid for asking for other colors because he liked blue. JERK!
(If he'd just said "I just felt like doing those, and don't want to do more.", I'd defend him. If he'd added "But you can adapt them if you want.", I'd praise him for doing it out of the goodness of his heart, as you put it. He didn't, and it wasn't.)
Then there's the freeware program author who used "RTFM!" a lot, but refused to include the manual in distributions in any language except Klingon (I kid you not). JERK!
(To be fair, he warned people on his website, so he wasn't as big a jerk as some, but still, this was such an arbitrary condition that he was wasting a lot of people's time, and that's not free.)
There's a programmer who finished out someone else's free project after the originator died in a car crash, but decided he'd done as much work as the dead guy so he should be allowed to distribute it without the originator's name attached. Then he left in the dead guy's contact info without explaining it, so the deceased's parents got lots of complaints directed to their son. JERK!
There's the guy who wrote a graphic painting program, and didn't use 8 bit color, didn't use 16 bit, etc, he used 32 bit alphablended color, on a Windows 95/98 based program! Insead of RGB, you had to input in GR(alphablendvalue)B order, in hex (except for a very few inputs that were decimal instead). X co-ord's started at 0, y co-ords started at 1! A young woman who asked him why he was supporting alpha in a windows environment that just plain didn't drew a public threat of rape from this JERK!, one which eventually resulted in him doing a little time. (Saying "Why don't I cornhole you until you shut the F*** up about things that are over your head." to a minor is not justifiable just because you aren't charging for your program. It's not justifiable to an adult either, but here it was egregious enough to be actionable and not just foul.).

So here's a hint to group number one. The only time it's an issue of fairness is when someone likes your program, and derives some benefits from using it. Then you deserve gratitude. If you have asked for something reasonable, in advance of your possibly wasting people's time, you deserve that. If you asked for something reasonable in return (and thus not truely free), but you didn't mention it until after the deal was consumated, you are doing the same thing as a typical commercial EULA, and 'free' doesn't make that kind of unfairness fair, whether you are asking for a little thing like a postcard, or a nice thing like not using the software to support warfare, or whatever. Even if I admire you're asking for so little for a good program, you still should put your cards on the table, and not try to get past the download and maybe the install stage before you mention that 'little' condition.
Even worse, there are things that don't actually cost money, but are near priceless. Freeware authors can claim that 'free' means they are not responsible for personal data they acquire on their web site, and even put it in a EULA, but the law is quite clear on what happens if you take and release people's SSNs or collect certain data fr

Re:Yep, bloatware, and a mediocre one

[KayosIII]

Yes some of the softwares listed above are only available for Windows -
does every 3D professional need to use Maya, XSI and Max
of those only max is not available on Linux... Maya and XSI are natively supported.

Both Fusion and Nuke do run natively under linux. Combustion is not supported but
its brother smoke is. Shake is available under Linux but not Windows (due to very
dubious involvement from Apple)... which leaves Avid in your list of compositors...

Zbrush is a bit of a sticky one... Mudbox is available for Linux but not yet
commercially. They have the code it is just pending demand. Lets hope that happens soon.

And that leaves Photoshop ahhh photoshop. Adobe is probably the biggest thing keeping
Media professionals from Linux. Disney and ILM get around the problem using Crossover
Office. Its not as fun as having a native copy given but it does work.

How much professional media goodness does Windows give you out of the Box...
windows paint, the movie editor & windows media player...
You have to buy all those apps and it will put you back many many thousands of dollars.
Unless you are the sort of person who steals other peoples work to make money for yourself - and
you are not one of those sorts of people are you?

So what will Ubuntu Studio realistically give you....
It will give you a
      reasonable image editor the Gimp (its somewhere between photoshop and MS Paint)...
      a reasonable illustration program (Inkscape)
      A not completely horrible DTP app that people are using to make actual books (scribus)
      A rapidly improving somewhat difficult to learn 3d package that people are using to make actual short films (blender)
      A Powerful if somewhat tempermental video editor (Cinelerra)
      A powerful DAW digital audio workstation
      A reasonable Midi editing environment

With any luck all of these should be configured and ready to go out of the box. (particularly the audio/video stuff
  which is a PITA to set up). If you are already married to Adobe et al I can't see this being a step up in the world.
But it might be just the thing to put on that spare box you happen to have floating around.

Re:Yep, bloatware, and a mediocre one

[im_thatoneguy]

Linux is an excellent platform for multimedia artists.

Ubuntu Media Center Edition... isn't a positive or a negative force for visual content creators.

I'm not married to Windows. But I don't hold anything against it either. Since it runs effectively everything except for shake, I don't see a reason to switch.

Personally running linux is like shooting myself in the foot because it only limits my options. If I was working right now at a Nuke, Fusion or Shake studio, I would be perfectly content to work in a linux environment, or an Apple environment depending on what I was doing. But bundling Gimp, Blender and Jahshaka isn't adding any value to the deal. It's bundling applications I won't be using, and for the most part aren't ready for production. (Have you tried using JahShaka?)

Therefore I agree with the OP. It's bloatware. I would much rather see a "Linux Nuke Edition" that boots straight into Nuke and has nothing except Nuke, Firefox and a few other tools. Frees up the rest of the memory and just streamlines the whole thing to run super fast. That is something I would be interested in. They could call it Nubunkeu.

I don't expect bundled software with my OS. In fact I frown upon it. I'll choose what I think is the best tool for the job. In this case. I don't find any of the bundled tools as the best offering, so they're just bogging down the system.

Everyone jumped on the OP and attacked him for saying "Linux isn't fit for multimedia production" but none of them stopped to read the post and make sure he actually said that. Which he didn't.

Re:Yep, bloatware, and a mediocre one

[im_thatoneguy]

I've made money off work that has passed through MS Paint. Does that make it a professional image editing tool?

Re:Yep, bloatware, and a mediocre one

[Anonymous Coward]

I too am a pro, the difference being that I'm an audio pro, and I use Logic Audio and pro Tools on a MAC, plus Sound Forge on a Wintel PC - with all the data being backed up/stored on a couple of Linux servers.

I would love there to be something equivalent to these tools in Linux so I look forward to seeing what this new distro can achieve.

And before I get the usual replies then let me say no, Rosegarden, Audacity, Ardour etc. are not equivalent to the aforementioned tools. They're a really good start but they don't come remotely close in terms of integrated features and ease of use. This isn't a criticism of the developers it's just a fact that currently the commercial tools are better developed - undoubtedly due to having more full time resources.

I look forward to seeing what Ubuntu Studio turns into.

Re:Yep, bloatware, and a mediocre one

[Builder]

We keep reading how users are important to a project - how bug reports and feature requests can help improve things. This is part of the Open Source mantra.

And yet many projects abuse people who provide just these things. Anything a developer doesn't understand or feels threatened by results in abuse at the user. It doesn't take long before users stop contributing these ideas at all, which is then the death knell for a project's long term usefullness.

It's like watching the Gnome and KDE guys go off at people suggesting UI changes... Just because it looks pretty doesn't mean it works well. Eye candy is nothing without a consistent user journey, and yet this is where I see most of the focus going :(

Re:Yep, bloatware, and a mediocre one

[Builder]

Rendering is just the number crunching that goes on AFTER all the real creative work is done. You can do number crunching on anything you like, and the only things that matter are reliability, support for your applications and speed.

When you're in the actual design phase, most people would use something significantly slower if it meant a better interface or a better way of letting them do stuff. There aren't a lot of multimedia apps for Linux that are friendlier to their users than the competing apps on other platforms, and so people stay on other platforms.

Re:Yep, bloatware, and a mediocre one

[Elektroschock]

http://www.openusability.org/ ??

Re:Yep, bloatware, and a mediocre one

[Elladan]

You're quite right - not only is it possible to load things in as-needed, it's not even particularly hard.

It's amazing how many /. comments on the Gimp bear no resemblance to reality at all.

The Gimp has had support for enormous images for a long time through the use of tiling.

I have The Gimp open right now editing a 3 gigabyte image, and it works fine... and it's using 200MB of ram to do it!

Well, ok, it's a little slow, but nothing a few hundred dollars in RAM couldn't fix. I'm sure it could be improved, but this thread is just hilarious. Far from being impossible, in fact, the Gimp already has this "one nasty hack" and has had it for a while.

And as for the XP comment... Your average Linux system can't allocate more than 2-3GB of ram to a process, either (depending on configuration). This isn't an OS limitation - a 32-bit processor only has 4GB of address space to use. And yet, somehow, many programs, including for example The Gimp can open and manipulate images much larger than this!

Re:Yep, bloatware, and a mediocre one

[Anonymous Coward]

The key word here is "render."
Not so. Pixar uses Red Hat on many of their artists' desktops as well. They'll use a non-Linux operating system when an artist needs a particular Windows or MacOS tool, but they use Linux everywhere else (Maya, in-house tools, etc.). And the bulk of their pipeline (rigging, layout, lighting, rendering, simulation) consists of in-house tools. (At least, this is my understanding from talking to someone who works there.)

Go back to sleep

[Steeltoe]

Just get back to sleep. This release is for those who are awake and want to contribute I guess.

Would be great...

[robzon]

I've yet to see a good video editing software for Linux.. Maybe the new Ubuntu will show me what I've missed?

Re:Would be great...

[goarilla]

what about cinerella and kino ...
i dont edit video's myself so i wouldn't know if they are good, stable, ...
but linux people tend to suggest those 2 to media enthusiasts
anyway here are the links
http://heroinewarrior.com/cinelerra.php3/Cinerella
http://www.kinodv.org/Kino
My first impression from the screens some to be that cinelerra
is the biggest project of the two and gives you more options than any sane person can handle
while kino looks like a fast quick and dirty simple editing app
anyway i hope i was of help, good luck!

Re:Would be great...

[im_thatoneguy]

There are one or two good ones.

Autodesk Smoke is probably the only Linux based editor I would recommend.

Re:Would be great...

[Karzz1]

While I cannot comment on Kino, Cinelerra has a "community version" which is an unofficial fork(?) of the project. This version is generally recommended over the official release because it is easier to build and contains bugfixes that the original may not have incorporated yet. The projects goal is to provide more timely bugfixes/patches to the original Cinelerra as developed by Heroine (which only releases updates every several months). More information can be found here.

For those unfamiliar with the history of Cinelerra, the developer(s) are anonymous so as not to jeopardize their current employment status; apparently the author(s) believe there might be a conflict of interest with regard to their day job(s). Regardless, Cinelerra is an excellent product though it is probably overkill for most home users. The learning curve is relatively steep as well. There is a slightly dated (circa 2003) yet interesting article which has an interview with "Jack Crossfire" (pseudonym for the developer(s)) that covers some of the directions the software is taking which can be found here.

Re:Would be great...

[gardyloo]

*My* first impression was made by Cinelerra's proclamation that you can HAVE SOME ALSA WITH YOUR TACO. I'm so there!

Re:Would be great...

[Anonymous Coward]

I've been editing for years and longing for something on Linux that would be anywhere near as good as Adobe Premiere (there are certainly Linux apps that are better than Ulead or Sony Vegas but both of them are quite crappy compared to Premiere). I believe that I've tested everything available (except Autodesk Smoke):
Cinelerra
- the GUI resembles Premiere but once you start using it, you notice that even the simplest things are quite complicated to do properly - few users complain, though, since they're content with imprecise cuts (getting them precisely right is possible but takes ten times longer than in Premiere). Keeping audio and video synchronized is quite a hazzle compared to premiere. Still crashes a little bit too often.
Jashaka
- an extremely ambitious projects and has many features but I couldn't evaluate it thoroughly since it crashed too often (could be my Ubuntu installation, though) but some developer said that it's stupid to call it 2.0 since it's still alpha so I didn't bother to try much further.
KDENlive
- seems promising but lacks features.
Kino
- I guess this is good for simple editing of home videos but not good enough for any ambitious amateur and the GUI could definitely be improved.
LIVES
- the screenshots made me believe that it was very close to Premiere but in practice, the functionality was completely different and it crashed too often to be useful.
OpenVIP
- resembles Premiere quite a bit but has the least features of all that I've tried.
MainActor (commercial)
- the best Linux application I've tried but still a bit buggy (the unofficial forums are full of complaints about sound problems and it crashes occasionally). Resembles premiere quite a bit and I could probably get used to its timeline automagically adjusting itself every now and then but without a jog 'n' shuttle it's still very limited.

As you can tell, I'm very fond of Premiere (which I've used since v. 1.0) but before that I had used analog equipment for several years so I wouldn't say that it's just because I've gotten used to it but more because I - thanks to a lot of experience - know precisely what I want when editing. However, at least 80 % of its features are completely unnecessary but what keeps me stuck to it is that the basics are implemented so damn well - hopefully one of those open source projects will eventually realize that in the end - good video editing is relatively simple so instead of trying to implement lots of features (and dreadful transitions and effects) you should have a timeline (which keeps audio and video synchronized) and a jog 'n' shuttle that makes cutting as easy as it is in Premiere. People would make better movies if they didn't have transitions the way they nowadays do - no professional uses transitions (except crossfades) but every amateur that gets their hands on some editing software destroys everything they've shot by using transition after transition until the viewers vomit. /Rant

Re:Would be great...

[FromellaSlob]

For those unfamiliar with the history of Cinelerra, the developer(s) are anonymous so as not to jeopardize their current employment status; apparently the author(s) believe there might be a conflict of interest with regard to their day job(s).

That sounds like a litigation timebomb.

Re:Would be great...

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe you misunderstood it. It is just another Ubuntu derivate, no new software. Ubuntu plus some multimedia editor packages. I find Gnome ugly. I don't want it on a professional workstation.

The Ubuntu Way of doing things ...

[Qbertino]

... is what was desperately missing within the Linux/OSS community. Just looking at that splash page of the Ubuntu Studio project made me utter a sigh of relief. Visual and outer skin consistency are things that Linux has seruiously lacked up to now. Ubuntu - basically a not-like-shit-looking version of debian - is what OSS needs to finally succeed in the real world. They use Gnome (which I don't like) but if they continue to improve it style as they did I couldn't care less.
Seeing this, one knows that OSS will prevail and Ubuntu will be at the helm. Nice prospects indeed.

Re:The Ubuntu Way of doing things ...

[aurelian]

The Ubuntu Way of doing things ... is what was desperately missing within the Linux/OSS community.

You mean a millionaire prepared to spend lots of his own money with no prospect of short-term return? Yeah probably. Maybe if Linux distros became even more like sports teams, we'd have cheerleaders as well!

Re:The Ubuntu Way of doing things ...

[Anonymous Coward]

You mean a millionaire prepared to spend lots of his own money with no prospect of short-term return?

No prospect?

From The ubuntu marketing mailing list:

Ubuntu is a distro. It does not need to make money. Canonical is the
company which funds most of the development on that distro. Canonical
needs to make money. Is Canonical profitable? AFAIK, currently no.
However, as a private company, their finances are not available for
public scrutiny. How does Canonical make money? Support and services.
Will Ubuntu be around if Canonical goes under? Yes. The Ubuntu
Foundation is sitting on $10 million for that very reason.

Answer your question?

"As we've seen with open-source projects before, with market share comes business opportunity."

Re:The Ubuntu Way of doing things ...

[aurelian]

Yep that pretty much says the same thing - no prospect of *short-term* return. the $10 million came from Mark Shuttleworth selling Thawte, not Ubuntu support tickets

BTW I think Ubuntu is great - been using it since the first release (when we actually did have naked cheerleaders on the desktop wallpaper). And I'm not saying the community or the attitude of the distro is irrelevant.

Re:The Ubuntu Way of doing things ...

[bhaberman]

I actually really like Ubuntu and its artwork, but I've been told by a lot of people that the "human" theme looks like shit. As in, human feces. Now that it's more orange, it might pass for some malnourished diarrhea.

Re:The Ubuntu Way of doing things ...

[Dragonslicer]

Maybe if Linux distros became even more like sports teams, we'd have cheerleaders as well!

If hot cheerleaders don't convince guys to switch to Linux, I don't think anything will.

Re:The Ubuntu Way of doing things ...

[Knuckles]

Do the same people complain to you that they think they live on a huge ball of shit? You know, soil is often brown too.

Re:The Ubuntu Way of doing things ...

[just_another_sean]

...we'd have cheerleaders as well!

We do!

Re:The Ubuntu Way of doing things ...

[kbahey]

They use Gnome (which I don't like) ...

You don't have to use Gnome.

Just download Kubuntu and enjoy KDE. We use it on five machines, and it is great.

Re:The Ubuntu Way of doing things ...

[True Vox]

Wait, wait, wait... Naked Cheerleaders on Ubuntu Wallpaper? LINK!!!! Even if it's not official... :)

Re:The Ubuntu Way of doing things ...

[TuringTest]

The original, official wallpaper which started the legend.

The not so official one!

Re:The Ubuntu Way of doing things ...

[wall0159]

"a millionaire prepared to spend lots of his own money with no prospect of short-term return?" I'm confused.. are you talking about Ubuntu or Mircosoft?

Re:The Ubuntu Way of doing things ...

[Imexius]

What the hell are you talking about? Sure nice visuals are going to attract users in the beginning but in the end the deciding factor of whether a user is going to continue using GNU/linux is its usability. As far as succeeding in the real world, I think it's safe to say that GNU/linux is doing quite well considering it's rapid adoption in the server area and recent surge of new users in the desktop end.

Re:The Ubuntu Way of doing things ...

[jonasj]

Oh, it's official... Just install the package ubuntu-calendar and all the packages it recommends (ubuntu-calendar-december, ubuntu-calendar-january, etc)

Re:The Ubuntu Way of doing things ...

[sheepweevil]

Unfortunately, the Ubuntu way of things also means not including proprietary media codecs by default, such as the very widely used mp3 format. Having a multimedia machine that is only capable of open media formats (without manually installing packages) will hurt its possibilities of reaching a wide audience.

Hrm!

[erroneus]

This might be the distro that might attract me away from my redhat core. I started with redhat 3 back in the day and progressed with each new release and now I'm using fedora core 6. People have been bugging me to try Ubuntu (in spite of the fact that they keep calling it "Oou-Buhn-Too" or even "You-Buhn-Too") But given that this one aims to cater to an interest that I haven't fully explored yet...? Maybe it's time.

Re:Hrm!

[FishWithAHammer]

I call it "Uh-bun-too" (though I use KDE) because it sounds markedly less retarded.

Re:Hrm!

[d3ac0n]

The proper pronunciation is: "Oo-boon-too". This not only sounds better than the other pronunciations, it's actually correct!

Great Idea

[evilviper]

This really is a great idea for a distro. In my own experience, I've found that keeping workstation task (web, e-mail, programming, etc) and multimedia tasks (DVR, editing, etc. as well as games...) on seperate systems works out for the best of both tasks. The two have a terrible tendancy to conflict with each other...

One may be working on a job that will take hours, while the other may need a quick reboot ASAP. One may need 99% uptime, while the other serves it's purpose just as well at 95% downtime. One needs quite high-end hardware, latest drivers, and frequent updating of software, while the other is better handled by older, lower-power, more reliable hardware and old, known-good software. One can be tucked away in a corner, while the other often needs to be nearby. etc.

Plus, it's no secret that many multimedia tools are a serious hassle to get up and working in the first place. Different toolkits and widely varying interfaces abound in this space. Good luck trying to INTEGRATE them with each other, on your own. My multimedia system is filled with shell scripts, which do the job pretty well, but aren't very elegant solutions. Doing something in a convoluted way is sometimes quicker and easier than trying to adapt the scripts that, for example, convert between formats for different editing tools.

Re:Great Idea

[Anonymous Coward]

My multimedia system is filled with shell scripts, which do the job pretty well, but aren't very elegant solutions.

You make this sound like a problem with multimedia, anybody computer literate automates tasks via scripting. Shell script lets you solve the problem now. If you want elegance you write that program after you already identified and solved all the problems ;-)

This distro looks like cool, except for using Gnome :-/

Re:Great Idea

[evilviper]

You make this sound like a problem with multimedia,

It is. Many different programs, with different focuses, all expecting information in a completely different format, and plenty of tweaks to get everything to work right.

anybody computer literate automates tasks via scripting.

You obviously weren't paying attention. It's not the standard handful of short shell script. You need extremely large and complex scripts. Think hundreds of 20KB shell scripts, and all the associated hassle maintaining them.

Re: Great Idea

[armagost]

When will it be ported to the Nokia n800?

Sweeeeet

[vandan]

I've been meaning to get back into recording, but ardour has been putting me off it for years. Perhaps the Ubuntu team will dig out something that doesn't require the user to script stuff to get going. I've been meaning to check out Beast ( http://beast.gtk.org ) but haven't gotten around to it yet.

Anyone got any other good audio apps.

As for the comment I see about no good video editing apps, I've had marvelous success with kino. I did a documentary on a Stop Bush demo when the bastard came to Canberra. It doesn't have as many flashy looking transitions as iMovie ( which is admittedly the only other video editor I've used ), but on the plus side, it doesn't have horrible cut & paste bugs and crashes and other bullshit that iMovie has.

Re:Sweeeeet

[xiang shui]

What's wrong with Ardour?

Re:Sweeeeet

[Anonymous Coward]

64studio might be nice. I haven't tried it myself, but I got handed a leaflet at an audio expo and the screenshots look pretty :P

Re:Sweeeeet

[taybin]

What scripting? Ardour doesn't have scripting.

Re:Sweeeeet

[byolinux]

the interface is way hard.

Re:Sweeeeet

[Crizp]

Ardour doesn't look that bad; have you tried Cubase or any other major audio workstation app?

Re:Sweeeeet

[byolinux]

Yeah, they're not much better.

Re:Sweeeeet

[Crizp]

Really? It has somewhat of a sharp learning curve, but so do most apps tailored to a specific professional field -- like video editing and 3D modelling. What's your gripe about the interface?

Re:Sweeeeet

[byolinux]

Applications like Jokosher have far more accessible interfaces, even after such a short time. I'm not a developer on Jokosher, but I have a need to use audiorecording apps.

...in time for 'Feisty Fawn'

[iminplaya]

What's that? Deer hunting season?

Re:...in time for 'Feisty Fawn'

[Anonymous Coward]

No, it's duck season...rabbit season...duck season...rabbit season...rabbit season...duck season.

Prior Art

[Mateo_LeFou]

I don't think it'd be hard to roll DeMuDi or Dyne:bolic into an ubuntu-themed & flavored distro. Both of those are working systems, if not yet sporting the famous Ubuntian ease-of-use.

Re:Prior Art

[Anonymous Coward]

That would mean admiting that it wasn't an UbuntuTM idea in the first place though, no, you can expect those and AGNULA to die horrible deaths when Ubuntu makes them both go away.

http://www.dynebolic.org/
http://www.agnula.info/

Re:Prior Art

[SonnyJimATC]

Not forgetting: http://ccrma.stanford.edu/planetccrma/software/ for Redhat. Also noone has mentioned the fact the Windows VST's (virtual instruments) can now run in linux with a combination of Wine, jack and Vsthost. http://ladspavst.linuxaudio.org/

The wrong direction

[JPriest]

I fail to see the point of forking an entire Operating System for the sake of haveing 4 or 5 applications installed on it.

Why not just build packages than can be installed to the main Ubuntu distro(s) already out there?

Re:The wrong direction

[mgiuca]

Yeah I'm not quite sure if this is a fork... it says they want to integrate it in with Fiesty. If it is an entire distro fork, it's a bit stupid.

Maybe it just means it's an optional part of the Distro (ie. you can download a version of Fiesty with or without this). That would make sense - not everyone wants this big package.

Re:The wrong direction

[mrjb]

I fail to see the point of forking an entire Operating System for the sake of haveing 4 or 5 applications installed on it.

To us pro-audio guys this is great news. My guess is you're not into pro audio. You must have missed my other post. You'll see, the number of applications is significantly bigger than that.

Secondly, pro audio is a field that places some very specific requirements on the OS. For years on end, I've needed to manually rebuild my kernel to include Ingo Molnar's low latency patches. Without these patches, linux audio will either suffer dropouts (not a huge deal for gaming but intolerable for pro audio) or feel sluggish. For quite a while, doing pro audio on Linux meant following endless HOWTO's, patching the kernel, and so on. A fork prevents this, without bothering other users with features that are not ready for prime time. *That* is the point.

I'm thrilled to see that after years, a lot of the progress that has been made has found actually ended up finding its way into the mainstream kernel, and I'm sure this will keep happening. I'm particularly happy about ALSA being part of the kernel now. I've also gladly welcomed the O(1) I/O scheduler, and recently, at last, as of kernel 2.6.18, Ingo Molnar&co's low latency patch finally made it into there. No more re-compiling the kernel for realtime support!

Re:The wrong direction

[Grey Ninja]

I would imagine it would work much like Kubuntu or Xubuntu.

If you don't know, the only difference between Ubuntu, Kubuntu, and Xubuntu, is what packages are included on the disc, and what packages are installed at install time. If you are like me, and like to see what's going on on the other side of the fence, but like the vanilla Ubuntu for the most part... then you just install Ubuntu, like normal, and then simply install the kubuntu-desktop and xubuntu-desktop meta-packages from the repositories. That will install the ENTIRE Kubuntu or Xubuntu system onto your existing Ubuntu install.

Re:The wrong direction

[ubernostrum]

Why not just build packages than can be installed to the main Ubuntu distro(s) already out there?

It's easier for the end user to have something that gives them most or all of what they need out of the box, rather than forcing them to scour around for the packages they need to get their job done. And once you have a solid reusable core OS like Ubuntu, building specialized distros tailored to specific types of users isn't all that hard.

Re:The wrong direction

[Anonymous Coward]

Not a fork. It's a set of maintained packages, metapackages that install all the required applications, and a remastered install / live CD to include all of that stuff. Same as Kubuntu / Xubuntu / Edubuntu, or the various "spins" the Fedora project is working on.

The idea is that, instead of installing Ubuntu and setting all that stuff up yourself, you install the Ubuntu Studio version and it already comes set up with the appropriate software and tweaks required for A/V work.

Re:The wrong direction

[Kjella]

A fork prevents this, without bothering other users with features that are not ready for prime time. *That* is the point.

I'm thrilled to see that after years, a lot of the progress that has been made has found actually ended up finding its way into the mainstream kernel, and I'm sure this will keep happening. I'm particularly happy about ALSA being part of the kernel now. I've also gladly welcomed the O(1) I/O scheduler, and recently, at last, as of kernel 2.6.18, Ingo Molnar&co's low latency patch finally made it into there. No more re-compiling the kernel for realtime support!

I'm not quite sure what you're trying to say here - is the kernel in it's current state ready for pro audio, or isn't it? If it is, then it makes no sense to fork because it can simply be a metapackage like e.g. installing Kubuntu packages from an Ubuntu install, five or fifty audio apps is small compared to that anyway. It looks to me digging a little deeper that is what they plan on doing - they just threw in a little marketing and call it an own distro. Maybe a new default skin too, just to convience the tech press.

Re:The wrong direction

[Vexorian]

And is it really a fork? Highly doubt they wouldn't use GPL to license this studio thing, and it is likely they would use gtk so it is unlikely there would be anything that would prevent this to go to other distros.

Re:The wrong direction

[gEvil (beta)]

What he's saying is that the needs of people doing pro audio on Linux are considerably different from the needs of someone using Linux as a server or general purpose desktop OS. Serious pro audio users NEED the realtime patches to the kernel--trying to track something and hearing what you've played in your headphones a quarter of a second after you've played it is simply not acceptable for something that needs to be perfect down to the millisecond. So in this case, yes a fork is necessary. It's this attitude of "You don't really need that, do you?" that hurts Linux in the eyes of many people who know what they're talking about. The same can be said for the repeated claims of "You don't really need CMYK support" for the GIMP. Because in order for Linux to be taken seriously in certain fields, these issues need to be addressed. And when I say "seriously", I mean widespread professional adoption, not just hobbyists or people willing to pull their hair out to get something working right.

Re:The wrong direction

[Anonymous Coward]

If you're into pro audio, you're not into Linux toys.

Re:The wrong direction

[Anonymous Coward]

Simple: Marketing. Exactly why ubuntu isn't just a bunch of debian packages.

Re:The wrong direction

[Teresita]

"If you're into pro audio, you're not into Linux toys."

Some people have to dual-boot with WinDoze because they're gamers and Linux isn't ready for prime time. For me it's MIDI hassles and the fact that I can't get Cakewalk stuff to even install under Whine, let alone work.

Re:The wrong direction

[g2devi]

You're missing something subtle. Ubuntu-studio is a metapackage, just like Kubuntu and Xubuntu. You can install Kubuntu *after* installing ubuntu by installing "kubuntu-desktop" and you can do this for Xubuntu too. If Ubuntu-studio is planned properly, it should be just as easy to install the Ubuntu-studio desktop.

Basically, it's the best of both world.

Re:The wrong direction

[Anonymous Drunkard]

If you are like me, and like to see what's going on on the other side of the fence, but like the vanilla Ubuntu for the most part... then you just install Ubuntu, like normal, and then simply install the kubuntu-desktop and xubuntu-desktop meta-packages from the repositories. That will install the ENTIRE Kubuntu or Xubuntu system onto your existing Ubuntu install.

Alternatively, if you want simplicity, you could just backup your home directories (making sure you keep your .directories as well), format, and then install Ubunto Studio.

I do have Kubuntu installed over Ubuntu because there are certain KDE apps that I prefer, mostly in CD burning, but as a rule it is not recommended because both desktops get loaded up, which increases the memory load significantly.

And then there was the time that dumbass me decided to add Xubuntu to my Ubuntu/Kubuntu mix, resulting in my having to copy all my settings and files to a holding directory in my Windows XP partition using the command prompt - because with three different desktops installed, I managed to completly screw up my X Window environment and I couldn't get ANY graphical desktop to work. Had to format the partition and start from scratch.

As a semipro audio user who so far has been basically stuck with Audacity and a jack daemon that works when it feels like it, I think Ubuntu Studio looks promising. If I could only bribe someone to write a Linux version of the AKAI.SYS server that my Akai DPS24 multitrack HD recording machine uses to interface with my computer, I could finally get rid of the last vestige of Win XP on my computer.

Re:The wrong direction

[arose]

Alternatively, if you want simplicity, you could just backup your home directories (making sure you keep your .directories as well), format, and then install Ubunto Studio.

You should also use that opportunity to put /home on a seperate partition so you don't have to bother with backing it up for future reinstalls.

Re:The wrong direction

[punkrockguy318]

The Ubuntu Studio project is NOT a fork. The project ONLY uses packages that are found in the official Ubuntu repositories. However, the project is an initiative to get packages into Ubuntu and have them integrate with each other; and also provides an installation CD that will install a sound Ubuntu installation for Studio work. Theoretically you could install Ubuntu studio via an apt-get meta-package (apt-get install ubuntu-studio), although I am not sure if something like this is in place yet. Ubuntu Studio is NOT a fork. It's NOT a distribution. It is a customization of Ubuntu.

Re:The wrong direction

[ir]

Or just use Windows or OSX like everyone else so you can get actually get some work done.

Re:The wrong direction

[Penguin Programmer]

Why not just build packages than can be installed to the main Ubuntu distro(s) already out there?

Well, knowing Ubuntu, that is probably how it will work. Say you install Ubuntu and you decide you want to use Kubuntu instead. apt-get install kubuntu-desktop. I imagine it will be very similar with this: apt-get install ubuntu-studio-desktop.

Making Studio its own "version" makes it easy for people who know they want that to download and install it in one shot instead of installing Ubuntu first and then intalling the Studio stuff. It also means that the Studio packages can be wrapped up together into a single metapackage, just like they are for ubuntu-desktop, kubuntu-desktop and xubuntu-desktop.

Re:The wrong direction

[FishWithAHammer]

But they're holy GNU open-source developers! They know what's best for you!

(Symptom of the GPLv3, too, now that I think about it...)

Re:The wrong direction

[nuzak]

> is the kernel in it's current state ready for pro audio, or isn't it?

It's not even ready for consumer audio. Try making both headphone and SPDIF coax outputs work with a RealTek AC97. This isn't an obscure configuration, it's like the single most common onboard audio chipset anywhere.

Just making it begin to work and I felt like I was back in 1995, editing obscure and poorly documented config files.

Re:The wrong direction

[Anonymous Coward]

both desktops get loaded up, which increases the memory load significantly

No, that's simply not the case. You can use both desktops simultaneously if you want, but if you start only the Ubuntu desktop, Kubuntu will not waste memory. Maybe you are talking about the memory overhead of running KDE and Gnome programs at the same time, when both the Qt+KDE and GTK+GNOME libraries are used. But simply installing Kubuntu on Ubuntu will not cause overhead per se.

And then there was the time that dumbass me decided to add Xubuntu to my Ubuntu/Kubuntu mix, resulting in my having to copy all my settings and files to a holding directory in my Windows XP partition using the command prompt - because with three different desktops installed, I managed to completely screw up my X Window environment and I couldn't get ANY graphical desktop to work. Had to format the partition and start from scratch.

No idea what went wrong with your installation, but it should work without a problem. I added Ubuntu and Xubuntu to a Kubuntu Dapper installation and they do not interfere with each other in any way.

Re:The wrong direction

[wellingj]

http://www.linuxdevices.com/articles/AT5152980814. html
See this for a good explination of why the rt preemption patch is needed.
Note: this test was done with 2.4 kernel and most of the rt patch from Ingo Molnar
has already been merged with the mainline (not totaly for all arches though) as of 2.6.18.

IMHO this distro of ubuntu could also be used as a great base robuntu (any one have a better name?)
predictable real time responses in the 10's of microseconds is a good thing for robots and audio/video.

Re:The wrong direction

[JPriest]

"rather than forcing them to scour around for the packages they need to get their job done"

That still sounds like a problem that could be solved with a shell script.

Re:The wrong direction

[Anonymous Coward]

I am not trying to be snide, so please forgive me if the comment comes off that way... but what sort of pro-audio are you doing? All the big studios I have been in have been protools running on mac, and I have seen some logic on mac home recording setups. I haven't yet seen anyone doing anything serious with Windows, let alone Linux.

Is there some niche pro-audio application I am unaware of that uses Linux? As far as I know, linux is still pretty obscure for studio recording.

Re:The wrong direction

[scum-e-bag]

For me it's MIDI hassles and the fact that I can't get Cakewalk stuff to even install under Whine, let alone work.

Bingo!

MIDI is a major sticking point. Rosegarden has made an brilliant start on implementing it into a usable GUI format with a piano roll editor, and links into Virtual instruments. Unfortunately, the whole MIDI specification has not yet been implemented. I refer to the full functionality of xRPNs and CCs specifically. Editing of CCs may need to be cleaned up as there is not much room for fine tuning of individual events, in fact its a right royal pain in the ass to edit CCs and the GUI needs some work. There may also be the need to implement other time code based sections of the MIDI protocol as well as other less used protocols like DMX. MIDI is a well documented protocol. Its not exactly difficult to understand the Rosegarden code and fully implement MIDI, its just a matter of time. The code is quite well written in a easy to understand format, with only three differing styles by three of the major coders. Without the easy to use and full implementation of MIDI in a GUI editor, there is no real incentive to swap away from windows based tools like Cakewalks Sonar.

For those coders who don't know, MIDI is the modern day equivalent of traditional music notation, so it really is imperative that this part of the project is completed.

At the moment, the best tool for the job is Sonar/Cubase/Protools. Until Rosegarden has a complete MIDI implementation with an easy to edit CC section there will be very little incentive for anyone to switch.

Re:The wrong direction

[KayosIII]

Well thats pretty much it... By new operating system what is actually meant is creating and maintaining a bunch of new applications -- probably promoting a lot of stuff from universe into the official repositories... Creating a new artwork scheme and loading it onto an installation disk... Similar to what happens with edubuntu... It will be easy to crossgrade from any other ubuntu flavour... If we are really lucky we might see a pretweaked kernel too.

Re:The wrong direction

[mr_tenor]

It's easier for the end user to have something that gives them most or all of what they need out of the box, rather than forcing them to scour around for the packages they need to get their job done.

Isn't this what metapackages are for?

http://packages.debian.org/testing/gnome/gnome-des ktop-environment

Re:The wrong direction

[operato]

is there a trade off between a real time operating system and general purpose operating system?

Far fetched?

[len_p]

They might have done some advancements in various aspects such as easy installing and various hardware detection (not that they are the first) but there are no elements yet to build such a project. Maybe a studio for the masses for basic photo editing but no way for professional stuff. I'll be happy at least to be able to edit or compress the mjpeg's from the digital camera in avidemux on ubuntu out of the box. Any improvement matters, good luck. Len

Re:Far fetched?

[Grey Ninja]

You can actually create some pretty professional quality stuff with Cinelerra. I took a few new media classes when I was in school. I used both Cinelerra and Adobe Premiere. I found Cinelerra to be FAR easier to use, and supported some things that Premiere just didn't do.

Frist p5ot

[Anonymous Coward]

You can. Whe8 the having lost 93% you have a play the NetBSD project, Itself backwards, All major surveys Join GNAA (GAY

Linux audio software

[mrjb]

Linux audio is maturing at a rapid pace. Where at one point I considered it not mature enough for studio use, this is rapidly changing. With Ingo Molnar & co's low latency patches being integral part as of kernel 2.6.18, the hard part is taken care of.

The rest is a matter of finding the right audio and music software. Here's a list of the software that I've actually used personally and that I consider the best of breed audio and music software for Linux. You will find these packages to fulfill most any audio need you might have. If you are going to get started on Linux audio for the first time, check these out before anything else.

Transport:

JACK audio connection kit: supported by almost all linux audio software.
Allows routing audio between jack-enabled applications. Use with qjackctl.

Mixing:

Ardour: Multi track Digital Audio Workstation. Very complete and definitely very usable. Main downside: Not all mixing parameters can be MIDI-controlled by an external mixer (yet), this is currently my main obstacle to integrating my mixer into my linux audio chain.

Audio editing:

Rezound: A decent wave editor. Feature rich, although not very suitable for multi-track work.
Audacity: Another good wave editor.
mhwaveedit: A small wave editor, which, although a bit limited, I've found very reliable for recording jack streams.
Gnu Wave Cleaner: To remove noise, pops and crackle from recordings. Works well, but unfortunately is rather unstable. Make a backup of your audio before denoising it.

Soft synths:

ZynAddSubFX: A very nice virtual analog synth
fluidsynth: Sample-based synth, use with qsynth or (better) java-based fluidgui
LinuxSampler: More powerful sampler than fluidsynth, albeit with higher latency
Aeolus: A virtual pipe organ. Believable to the untrained ear.

Composition:

soundtracker: IT-tracker style music editor
hydrogen: A drum machine (or more accurately, a drum sequencer).
Rosegarden: A MIDI sequencer. Use in combination with one of the above soft synths. I've experienced some trouble combining both MIDI and audio inside the same project.

Real-time processing:

LADSPA plugins: Effect processing for almost any purpose. Most prominently absent is a good pitch corrector/auto tune.
freqtweak: Create all kinds of interesting effects by tweaking parameters in the frequency domain.
Jack-rack: Process incoming JACK audio in realtime.

Other:

amidi: Command line utility to dump incoming MIDI traffic and send MIDI traffic.
              Very useful for MIDI diagnostics
hd24tools: A jack-enabled suite that allows playing disks recorded on Alesis HD24 recorder.

Main things I feel are still lacking:

- Replacing audio peaks by drums: I've written a small tool, drumreplacer, which does this for a single audio channel. However it is rather limited and uses a lot of CPU. Still a far cry from the capabilities of drumagog.
- Auto tune
- A tool to 'unwobble' wobbly drum tracks in real time

Re:Linux audio software

[Stormx2]

I have to say the audio department is already pretty good. But video? Video editing packages for ubuntu are very limited at best. I've tried editing video on more than one occasion and drawn a complete blank after 4 or 5 apps. Same goes for graphics, I absolutely cannot stand The GIMP. I try to emulate paint shop pro 7, but its pretty shakey...

Re:Linux audio software

[froh]

- Replacing audio peaks by drums: I've written a small tool, drumreplacer, which does this for a single audio channel. However it is rather limited and uses a lot of CPU. Still a far cry from the capabilities of drumagog.

You should check out Aubio http://aubio.piem.org/ It does what you want, and more. It turns my guitar into a midi instrument when combined with jack configured to ultralow latency via my beautiful M-auio 44 soundcard.

Re:Linux audio software

[ghyd]

Quite frankly this is still horrribly poor compared to windows. Of course people could do good work with any tools, and I also hope that Linux may accept standart softares and synths (because ZASFX has a nice sound and all, but it CANNOT replace Z3ta, Reaktor4, Albino, Sytrus, Vanguard Vaz etc etc... What about drumboxes ? are Attack or at least tonic available ? Its possible to limit ones tools in a creative streak, but it isn't possible to say that Synths aren't lacking because there is WOOWOWOW ZynaddsubFX.

Re:Linux audio software

[Anonymous Coward]

And of course all of these are things you could have done with Win 95 (minus whatever recent hardware that's came into style now).

BTW, DOS's cakewalk could dump/track midi traffic just fine (it's what it did, hell... we used midi to generate sound effects for the game Red Baron) in 199something... Linux just catching up?

The moment you mentioned "writting your own tool" lost alot of people you know, most of use want to make music, not programs. (and sure as hell don't need programs to manipulate our music)

Re:Linux audio software

[Anonymous Coward]

You best fucking stick to using DOS & Windows then!

Re:Linux audio software

[arose]

The moment you mentioned "writting your own tool" lost alot of people you know, most of use want to make music, not programs.

It's horrible, people who can make their own tools become professionals, what has the world come to!

Has potential

[xiangpeng]

I think that this flavour of Ubuntu will convert quite a few people that I know if it manages to do what it advertises.

I got quite a few friends who are wow-ed by the latest advancements in the linux desktop enviroment and wanted to convert their workstations to running Ubuntu. The main reason why they're not doing so(most of them are video editors and sound engineers) is the lack of pre-installed tools for audio-visual editing. Having such flavours of Ubuntu will probably make their conversion to Linux easier :)

Re:Has potential

[flewp]

Having such flavours of Ubuntu will probably make their conversion to Linux easier :) Until they realise that most of their professional-level software isn't installed in these packages...

Re:Has potential

[Anonymous Coward]

Until they realise that most of their professional-level software isn't installed in these packages...

Ardour, Jack and Sweep are not "professional level"? Pixar use and sponsor development of sweep, Ardour is supported by SSL and Harrison. When I was at college, professional level for video editing was a pair of hi-band decks. We trained on VHS with a crappy Panasonic vision mixer and I shot and edited a short on Super8 cine. Tools don't make someone a professional and "professional level" work has been done on systems far less powerful than those offered by linux.

I work in audio and I'll tell you this; being able to use plug-ins in pro-tools has as much to do with being a sound engineer as running a macro has to do with being a writer. Keep your bizarre definition of "professional-level" to yourself.

Re:Has potential

[Breakfast Pants]

SLL does not support Ardour. (as of a few days ago)

Re:Has potential

[flewp]

Can you tell me where I said Ardour, Jack, and Sweep are not profession-level software? If you read my post, I never made any such statements. I know a few people who are in the field of sound/music production, and very few of their core tools are freeware apps. Sure, some of the utilities they use are, but again, they're not the core apps that they do the majority of their work in. Chances are, they already have their OSX/Windows systems set up, configured, and all their software already installed, so I don't see this causing a lot of people to switch. If anything, I think it'll just make it easier for hobbyists, who are already familiar with Linux, to get more into sound/video/graphics with Linux. The general person, who might be interested in sound/video/graphics, but who isn't familiar with Linux is probably not even going to consider this when there's iMovie, etc out there on systems they're most likely more familiar with. The professionals who already use and know Linux probably have everything set up already - though it might make it easier for people new to the "scene".

I'm not really knocking the idea, just saying it's not going to cause a large number of people to switch over. It's just more of the same old "Linux is going to take over !!" hype. Don't get me wrong, I'd love for Linux to be more well recieved in every aspect of computers, but it's just not going to happen for Joe Sixpack for awhile. It seems to be making more inroads in the professional communities, especially in areas like 3D where Linux seems much better suited for massive render farms and the like.

Re:Has potential

[Anonymous Coward]

Spot on, gimme a solid system with the basics any day. Delay, verb, compress, limit, EQ. The rest just make you lazy. Get the sound right going in and it will sound right, fuck the "fix it in pro-tools" crowd. You can hear a pro-tools mix from a mile away, flat and boring.

Wish I cared about this article

[Pesh Hawksfire]

But I'm just not that into Pokemon.

Re:Wish I cared about this article

[Anonymous Coward]

sudo care about this article

You idiot

[DrSkwid]

Please talk about image processing techniques when you know some, until then "shush".

XP hahahaha

Pronunciation?

[Anonymous Coward]

The above summary brings up a question about the pronunciation of Ubuntu. The summary states "an Ubuntu" which would men it's pronounced "oo-bunt-oo" but I've always assumed it was "yoo-bunt-oo".

Or am I just a grammar nazi?

Re:Pronunciation?

[advocate_one]

it is oo-bun-too. There is no You in Ubuntu

Re:Pronunciation?

[misjah]

actually, it's oo-boon-too. all three u's sound the same.

Re:Pronunciation?

[caluml]

I say You-bun-too. However, I'm English, and we tend to say "yoo" in places where Americans say "oo". Stupid. Consumer. News. Although I've heard people here saying Consoomer, and Noos over here recently, which irks me.

Re:Pronunciation?

[Tolkien]

The issue here is that Ubuntu is not an English word, it is African, so you're both wrong because it is indeed "oo-boon-too". A direct quote from the link:

How do you pronounce Ubuntu?

Ubuntu, an African word from Zulu and Xhosa, is pronounced "oo-BOON-too". See the other FAQ on its meaning, it's a worthwhile read, and no, you're not the first person to wonder.

If you want to sound smart[er], pronounce it the same way natives of the originating word's language do. :)

Re:Pronunciation?

[Hitto]

kinda like leenoos torvalds saying leenoks?

Re:Pronunciation?

[PCM2]

If you want to sound smart[er], pronounce it the same way natives of the originating word's language do. :)

Remember, the parent is English. To do this would be to go against centuries of habit. Remember, these are the people who chose to pronounce "Mumbai" as "Bombay" and "Kolkata" as "Calcutta." And let's not even get started on how the English deal with French words.

Re:Pronunciation?

[caluml]

Do you say Me-xi-co, or Mexico? Espan~a, or Spain?

Ubuntu naming scheme

[Lupu]

How about "Rusty Russell"?

Re:Ubuntu naming scheme

[Firehed]

Why not "Lazy Leopard"?
*ducks*

Re:Ubuntu naming scheme

[WoLpH]

I was thinking along the lines of "Pirating Platypus"
Maybe that would make the pirate searching a little bit harder for the *AA too.

Re:Ubuntu naming scheme

[kimvette]

How about "Rabid Rodent"

No use without HW support...

[Bazman]

What's the point of me installing UbuntuStudio if there's no support for my RT-X100 video editing card? No real-time effects. No hardware encoding. Perhaps no DV grabbing either.

Until hardware suppliers ship Linux drivers (with all the interoperability issues of standardising drives for so many things) its pointless. I'm sticking to Windows for my video editing and music mixing. Linux for everything else though...

Re:No use without HW support...

[Anonymous Coward]

Well you should buy hardware that has support. I know my my audio workstation I brought a M-audio card for sound processing. I did this because you can get win95,98,nt,2000,xp and soon vista support plus about 10 version of mac and it also has linux drivers. Talk about driver support from a company. I am now looking to bring video into my workstation and will be spending a lot of time researching which company to buy my hardware from and hoping I find a company as good as m-audio for the video side.

all try anything for a laugh

[PartickMonkey]

its worth a shot - was introduced to linux with the scientific linux distro, whilst not completely horrific it was not the most pleasent experience (still forced to use it) ubuntu however was much better (perhaps because my knowledge about linux had increased a little, "why use ubuntu then!" i hear you cinics say ;)), so yeah, i'll use it. Look forward to it

Dumb question

[Wellington Grey]

What's the reason for developing a whole new branch of Ubuntu for a specific purpose? (Such as the EDUbuntu) Why not just have a list of programs that people might want to download. Are there really changes that need to be made at the operating system level for multi-media editing?

-Grey

Re:Dumb question

[polyp2000]

Im not sure there is - But one of the things the Ubuntu team is doing is making it plain and simple for potential users to know which distro is for them! Its also nice that you know all the apps are going to be relevant instead of having a multitude of applications that will never get used and overwhelm the user. This is about keeping things simple and I applaud what they are trying to do!

Re:Dumb question

[rmjb]

That is a dumb question because all of these branches with specific purposes all get a meta package in the repositories. What that means is if you install Ubuntu and want to try EDUbuntu, you just install edubuntu-desktop; you want to try xubuntu, you install xubuntu-desktop. It will be the same for Ubuntu Studio too, you just install ubuntustudio-desktop.

Some of the meta packages get an ISO made for people to install directly to that branch, but not all do. Ichthux is a community branch and they produce their own ISO. Fluxbuntu is another community branch that works the same way.

- rmjb

ISO Format

[Stormx2]

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=266678

I don't know if anyone will find that interesting. The votes are basically deadlocked between CD and DVD... Turning point in the format wars?

PulseAudio

[this great guy]

Transport: JACK audio connection kit: supported by almost all linux audio software.

I have recently spent a lot of time researching network-transparent audio transport applications so that I can, for example, walk around my apartment with a wireless Linux laptop while it is outputting sound to big speakers in the room (over wifi to a Linux media server connected to an audio receiver).

I have come across JACK and a dozens other apps, but it seems that PulseAudio is by far the most advanced and the cleanest implementation out there. It is multi-platform, it comes with dozens of plugins (alsa, oss, esound, etc) for max compatibility with existings apps, it is a clean architecture, etc. I haven't taken the time to test it yet, but it seems very promising. Has anyone here had previous experience with PulseAudio ?

Targeting Feisty sounds foolish to me

[arodland]

That's only three months from now. I can already see it being "almost done" at that time, and of course it's such a good PR doohickey that they'll push back Feisty two months rather than wait for Feisty+1. And then the integration will still be half-assed. Save it for 7.10 and do a killer job, guys.

Shame it uses Gnome...

[Anonymous Coward]

A heavyweight like Gnome2 is not what I'd be running for any high-end task. Why can't they provide an option for fluxbox, avoiding GConf, Gstreamer and all the other Gnome baggage? libXML, Pango, GTK and even libGnomePrint are fine, brain-death like GConf and GStreamer are to be avoided at whatever cost. Gnome 1.x used to be my desktop of choice, Gnome 2 is the festering abomination that the mono crowd are circling like vultures.

Remember kids, just say no to Gnome, there are healthier ways to get fluxxed-up.

Jokosher

[babbling]

You left out Jokosher. It's still less than a year old, but it's probably already one of the best, and it's only going to get better. Jono Bacon (the guy who started the project) is an employee of Canonical, and I'm pretty sure Jokosher is one of the applications open in that screenshot on the Ubuntu Studio website, so you can expect it to be one of the "killer apps" in Ubuntu Studio.

If you can't wait: 64 Studio

[stereoroid]

I've been trying out 64Studio v1.0 over the last couple of months. Debian-based, with a core set of audio apps that fit on a single CD, and JACK to glue them all together. Ardour and Rosegarden work well, and it wasn't hard to get my USB audio & MIDI gear working with standard modules. Includes some decent graphics / video programs too, Blender3D, CinePaint & more. If I have one wish, though, it's for more synthesisers in the base package, and even a general-purpose sampler. (QSampler only supports GigaSampler files so far, not building your own sample sets, as supplied.)

Re:If you can't wait: 64 Studio

[Anonymous Coward]

Is there a bloat-free version with sensible (no Gnome or KDE) DE?

NOTHING of similar quality here?

[nurb432]

While i cant comment on the 2d grapic scene, and you may be correct that GIMP dies on large files, i dont agree about the 3d world.

Ever hear of Blender? In the old days it was a commecial product, so to speak ( ok, it wasnt for sale as it was in house, but is the same idea ). Since then it has only grown in ablity. Sure, it takes some getting used to, ( like any 3d package does ) but it is as capable as most anything else out there is you want to try.

But then again, you are out just to bash things and wont even listen to reason.

Re:NOTHING of similar quality here?

[PSIRockin]

Yes, Blender is a great app. It's what I used to learn 3d modeling, and now I'm not half bad at it. Of course, I do it just to have fun but it can crank out some pretty renders.

The software depends on the users application

[chemiosmurphy]

Oh my god. To those people that keep saying gimp is better than photoshop, its so damn annoying. Its like saying my dicks bigger than yours. It doesn't matter. If you do stuff that is with small files and doesn't need color correction why blow your money on photoshop, just use gimp. Premiere vs final cut, once again, its what your doing. So don't be so quick with judgement. But this distro does have potential. If they can get basic DV capability this could be a cheap suite that blows movie maker out of the water. Just gonna have to wait and see.

Looks enticing.

[DarkLegacy]

It's a nice step forward.

I'd love to..

[n1hilist]

but I'm still waiting for support for my Sound Blaster XFi :(

Wait for "Gaping Goatse"!

[Anonymous Coward]

That'll be a version to remember...

It's all about ego

[walterbyrd]

That is why there are hundreds of linux distros.

Since there is no money involved, it's all about the satisfaction you get. And it's much more satifying to have your own project, rather than contributing to somebody else's project.

So every snot-nosed kid does some somthing like: throw every multi-media app they can find on an established linux distro, then they have their own new "multi-media" distro. Or throw every security related app they can find on another distro, and then they have a special "security" distro. And here on slashdot, everybody makes a big fuss over it, like it's something revolutionary.

IMHO: throwing apps on another distro does not justify yet another linux distro. Also, IMHO, apps that work on any version of linux, are not special features. But, in the insane linux distro land, that is what most distros are all about. Look at the "feature" list of most distros to find "OpenOffice" or whatever.

That is why I use debian. 180mb network download, then only download what you want. Make it a super-stable server, or a bleeding edge desktop, or a multi-media whatever. And you need only download and install it once. Use whatever WM/DE you want, or don't use any, debian doesn't case. You don't have a different *buntu distro for a different distro.

All JMHO.

yawn

[TheBeardIsRed]

I wish i could say I was excited with this. Unfortunately, it's probably another project put together by individuals who don't 'get it'. Simply including Audacity & video editing software into a distribution doesn't make it multi-media centric. You have to include packages to make use of specialized AV hardware which currently don't exist.

Currently I run a 24 track based home studio and would love to convert it completely to linux. Alas though, until drivers are created for Mark of the Unicorn (MOTU - http://www.motu.com) hardware this distro is just more chaff waiting to be swept up and forgotten.

Re:yawn

[Anonymous Coward]

Freebob 2.0 will have ALSA+JACK support for the MOTU devices on Linux.
It's not out yet though. :(
Version 1.0 works pretty good for some other boxes.

Re:yawn

[itomato]

It's more than that...

It's putting effort behind what the F/OSS community has available in an attempt to "ball it up together" so that the serious usability hacking and driver development can happen.

It's also providing a low-latency environment for any purpose that can benefit from Ubuntu packaging and package popularity..

Re:yawn

[Max Littlemore]

This Ubuntu Studio thing has been discussed for a while now by people who acually use it to make music. Until this point it has just been tutorials and howtos on the wiki, but it's good to see them taking a step forward.

Audacity is a bit of a joke when compared to some of the other realtime goodies available on Linux, so there's next to no chance it will be the sum total of audio software on the distro. Assuming that these are people who just don't get it suggests you just read the ./ summary and haven't browsed the wiki.

It is a shame there're no MOTU drivers available. Once everything is configured nicley I get much better performance out of Linux than XP on the same hardware. Maybe writing to MOTU and requesting drivers or specs may help, but I doubt it. I basically make sure that any hardware I buy has Linux drivers. If everyone did that, it would certainly change the market.

I'm pretty happy with this announcement because it will save me a lot of manual package selection and the hassle of configuring realtime permission, even if I have to remove audacity later.

Wired?

[cyxxon]

Has anybody tested out Wired? I never got around to installing it myself, but it looks promising as well. Just wondering since it does not seem to be mentioned here at all...

Re:Wired?

[radarsat1]

I could never managed to get it to compile.
However, since you mentioned it I just checked and there have been several new versions since I last tried, so now I'll give it another shot.. ;-)

Ayeee! Get it off me! Get it off me!

[ColdWetDog]

Set yourself apart by creating incredible effects at an even more incredible pace. Powerful non-destructive effects, fast versioning, and the ability to design your own templates for quick content creation allow you to distinguish yourself from the competition. Projects go from concept to creation faster. Facility throughput increases. Whether you are working with SD or HD video, or in a true file-based, data-centric environment, Autodesk Smoke is designed to accelerate your creative workflow.

Although it may be exactly what I'm looking for in order to move away from Windows, I just can't read Autodesk's marketing crap. It's just too stomach wrenching fluffy. Even when I try, it doesn't really say anything. They don't even show you a demo - you have to ask for a salesperson.

It appears that this product is pitched towards larger commercial settings or is in early beta so you can't actually see anything (don't look behind that curtain please). Oh, and pricing - if you have to ask how much it costs, you apparently don't need it. At any rate, this product seems to be pitched in the opposite direction of everything else here - closed, expensive and tied to hardware.

Oh well, I don't like Autodesk much anyway.

As an aside, there have been a number of threads on Digital Photography Reviews to the effect that if Linux DOES manage a digital photography workflow that even gets close to Windows or Apple (read something better than GIMP and some reasonable RAW file viewer) along with decent color profiling, then there would be a significant Linux adoption. It may get there in a few years....

Ali Larter anyone?

[Mateo_LeFou]

Hot and psychopathic dissociative identity disorder to boot...

MOTU are linux hostile

[Anonymous Coward]

All community attempts to create drivers have been snubbed by MOTU, any problem here is purely with your hardware vendor!

Unless...

[Belial6]

Unless they send copies of the distro to the producers of the hardware, and show them that there is an OS tailor made for their hardware and their customers, just waiting for them to make the drivers. In other words, Ubuntu may be trying to offer up a chicken to get the hardware manufacturers egg.

Text made me hungry

[LM741N]

At first I thought it said "Tasty Fawn"

I am so fucking happy to wake up to this..

[black88]

About 4 months ago, I installed and ran Dapper on my laptop, dual booting with Windows XP just to be safe (I know that sounds weird, but bear with me)including support for running VSTI synths via FST and Jack, using my Tascam US122 as the sound device.

It took me about 2 weeks of messing around to get it fully configured, but when it finally did run, I was elated. It surpassed my expectations.

The thing is, even when it comes out officially, I am going to still be dual booting with Windows XP for a few reasons:

1)Because there are just certain apps available on XP that I must use for audio, ie Audiomulch, and apps that will not run in WINE.

2)Because of the insistence of keeping Open Source/GPL acceptable code, they probably won't be including FST, mainly because Steinberg is not planning on opening up the code for their vst/vsti protocol.

3) Just to be safe. As much as I would love to be able to run Linux exclusively for everything, until Ubuntu Studio is released, road tested (literally) and given time to mature, I wouldn't feel right trusting it to my musical career, such as it is.

But it's still fucking rocks...................

Need a CAD package

[Anonymous Coward]

Most media apps have decent F/OSS representation, save one: CAD. There is no good F/OSS CAD package. Blender is o.k. for doing certain types of 3d stuff, but that's not what I'm talking about; I'm talking about production level engineering/architectural drafting. This is the only reason I still keep a copy of Windows handy - there is an adequate if not excellent application for every other significant task out there, save CAD.

I'm glad Ubuntu is doing this, although I'm not sure why this isn't just a meta-package of some sort, but sadly this will do nothing to fix the achille's heel of F/OSS apps.

Re:Need a CAD package

[siDDis]

Here are some cad applications that works in Linux, two of them are commercial though. http://www.qcad.org/ http://varicad.com/ http://www.cycas.de/

Re:Need a CAD package

[siDDis]

I just found a good list here http://www.tech-edv.co.at/lunix/CADlinks.html

Re:Need a CAD package

[j_sp_r]

Pro/Engineer works under linux. The interface is very spartan although it gets better with the Wildfire releases. It's quite expensive but if it's for your work it's great!

Re:Need a CAD package

[Anonymous Coward]

There are a couple of other commercial CAD packages available also. I'm not interested in proprietary CAD packages. Putting proprietary apps on GNU/Linux is like putting mustard on chocolate cake. What's the point of that? I might as well just use Windows then - which I do.

Re:Ayeee! Get it off me! Get it off me!

[Anonymous Coward]

As an aside, there have been a number of threads on Digital Photography Reviews to the effect that if Linux DOES manage a digital photography workflow that even gets close to Windows or Apple (read something better than GIMP and some reasonable RAW file viewer)

  Ah, so now I know to avoid the idiots at DPR then. I'll say it again: RAW IS NOT A FRICKIN FORMAT! It's the device-specific barf straight from your camera/scanner/whatever, and requires the hardware maker's direct support to do anything with it. RAW is the devil.

video editing too? Good luck.

[androvsky]

So, has anyone ever gotten Cinellera to run long enough to comment on usability? I've tried many, many times to compile the thing, and the prepackaged binaries I've found are hideously unstable. I've heard about a community version, but don't know how far along it is... hoping it's useful-ish. They've written their own widget libraries and codecs, so it's really not that flexible. Similar story with Jashaka, very hard to get to compile, and when I did, I seem to recall it wasn't a video editor so much as an effects mixer for video. Thanks to this story I've discovered kino, which is happily packaged for Ubuntu... but so far, also doesn't work. Freezes up when I try to load a video file. I'll keep trying, but I've always been a little surprised at the sorry state of video editors on linux. I've also been annoyed that whenever the subject is brought up, there's always a bunch of "I've never used it, but there's cinelerra" posts. Yes, I know you haven't used it, that's why you're suggesting it.

All I really want is a simple video editor for making anime music videos, and for this, I currently have to boot Windows to use Premiere.

then use a vst

[Vitriolix]

you can run most vst's very nicely in linux http://ladspavst.linuxaudio.org/

Re:then use a vst

[joto]

you can run most vst's very nicely in linux

Correction: If you happen to run linux on an ia32 compatible platform, you can run most VSTs you don't need. If it's a VST you need, it will either fail to work, fail to run reliably, or show some other bugs that make it useless for you.

Re:then use a vst

[ghyd]

Interesting enough to try linux someday. I'm afraid that for now there won't be the necessary reliability of all plugins, sequencer, and ASIO stream, but it looks more advanced than I thought, thanks.

Codecs

[ickyellf]

This looks great! Maybe I can finally ditch Final Cut Pro. I guess, like other distros, they'll keep the questionable codecs behind the counter.

Re:video editing too? Good luck.

[Anonymous Coward]

My experience has been the same but just in case you haven't heard of it; MainActor for Linux is quite Premiere-like and costs much less.

pure:dyne

[WilliamCotton]

How about pure:dyne?

From their site:

pure:dyne has been created to provide a complete and ready made environment for artists and developers who are looking for a free operating system dedicated to realtime audio and video processing.

pure:dyne is a GNU/Linux live distribution based on the new dyne:II core. You don't need to install anything, pure:dyne is running from the CD itself. It can directly boot from virtually any PC machine, or Intel Mac, and the optional hard-drive or USB-key installation is just a matter of copying one folder.

This particular live cd brings you the latest exotic FLOSS (Free/Libre/Open-Source Software - read more) such as Supercollider, Icecast, Csound, Packet Forth, Fluxus and much much more, including of course Pure Data and a great collection of essential externals and abstractions (PDP, PiDiP, Gem, GridFlow, RRadical, PixelTango ...).

Re:video editing too? Good luck.

[ldj]

Over the past 6 years or so, I've used Cinelerra (and its predecessor, Broadcast 2000) to create around a dozen videos, mostly consisting of pan/zoom stills (up to 800 in a single video) with fade transitions and multiple sound tracks. Final product runtimes have ranged from 15 minutes to 2 hours. I know what you're talking about regarding the stability, but I've had few problems in that area with the community version. I've built it several times over the last year or so (mostly on Kubuntu, but previously on Mandriva also) with no build problems and only the occasional runtime crash.

I've mixed captured video with stills, using around 100 video tracks and 4 audio tracks, applying various video effects, with little difficulty. The various keyframe controls (fades, camera, projector, effects, etc.) take a little getting used to, and until recently, the documentation was quite lacking. But the documentation seems to have improved significantly over the past year, and once you get the feel for the controls, they seem easy enough to work with for me.

I've found the render farm capability easy to work with and a real time-saver (using the 4 PCs in our house).

I'm not a professional video editor, just an enthusiast/hobbiest, so I don't have any comparison experience with other, proprietary apps. But I do know that it works fine for me, and I appreciate the fact that it works with an XML EDL file format, which has allowed me to write a few scripts to pre-build project files to save myself many hours of otherwise manual layout.

I hope this small bit of information encourages you to try the community version. And I hope you experience the same results as I. As I said, I have no comparative experience with other apps, but for me, Cinelerra works great.

Congrats

[dolson]

I just want to congratulate the team who took over and pushed through with the vision I once had.

I'm happy back on debian, but this is a good milestone that I am happy they [will eventually] have reached.

MOD PARENT UP: IMPORTANT

[css-hack]

They sure do still make Maya for linux.
"They" are just Autodesk now, instead of Alias or SGI.

Ubuntu Developer

[Cius]

I'm personally more intrigued by the idea of an Ubuntu version meant specifically for developers. Give me the normal Ubuntu system (sans useless desktop things like games, media players, etc.), add on a nice IDE maybe, throw in build-essential and the relevant sections of the UNIX manual, and I'd probably make a mess of myself in anticipation.

Currently, I make these modifications myself after a fresh install at every new release. I'm really just asking Canonical to make my life even easier. ;-)

Re:Ubuntu Developer

[BadMrMojo]

Currently, I make these modifications myself after a fresh install at every new release. I'm really just asking Canonical to make my life even easier. ;-)

I think you have answered your own question. As a rule of thumb, a developer is less likely to need a head start in configuring their system than a media- or education-specific audience.

i hope it supports ipv4 out of the box

[Anonymous Coward]

I had to go into some configuration files in order disable ipv6 and to get networking up on my box, among other little things. rhel doesn't suffer from this problem and it would be nice to see a ubuntu disribution having everything work out of the box.

Dyna:bolic will do

[ravenII]

Dyna:bolic under Ubuntu base will do fine for studio. No need to pull the fussy hair over all this. (Fly like a sly raven)