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Mozilla Releases Thunderbird 2.0.0
An anonymous reader writes "The Mozilla Corporation has released Thunderbird 2.0.0. Among the improvements are Message Tagging, updated UI, Advanced Folder Views, Better New Mail Notification and Full Support for Windows Vista and 64-bit versions of Windows."
How long until Webmail (http://webmail.mozdev.org/index.html) is updated for 2.0?
How many people, aside from the slashdot crowd, actually use POP3/SMTP clients anymore (at home, not work)? Isn't some ridiculous amount like 90% using gmail/hotmail/yahoo mail/aol mail/etc?
Have been using it (2.0) for a day now and so far its a really nice experiance.
The greatest thing with Thunderbird is its "simplicity" (do not confuse with "simple, bare minimum") it just very easy to get into and when you'r ready there is allot of usefull features that the advanced user appricate.
Having used 1.5 for a long period of time its also one of the more stable programs I'v use every day, havnt so far seen a crash or something that dosnt work as intended.
http://www.intellipool.se/ - Intellipool Network Monitor
Watch your back, Eudora for Windows 3.1!
How about just "Mozilla release Thunderbird 2"? The Mozilla website says its 2.0.0.0 The article says 2.0.0 Does this mean we bait our breath for the ground-breaking news that "Mozilla release Thunderbird 2.0.0.1" I can't wait.
What exactly do they mean by full 64-bit support. I didn't find an x64 bit binary anywhere.
Any chance the Mozilla people could trouble to put up some real information about the new version instead of a flashy page of meaningless marketspeak?
-- Ed Avis ed@membled.com
1. A shared calender :) )
2. An integrated Calendar
3. Exchange support a la evolution (even if it just supports a few features
I have introduced Thunderbird to my work place to a limited extent. But these features would allow me to push its introduction further.
Most people have no idea what they are doing, and are silently panicking on the inside.
The single lacking feature stopping me from using it? Heck, even if it ties in with that other calendaring application from mozilla, at least recognizing outlook calendar requests and calling the other app.
.
Any cake from Microsoft this time??
Are there any corporations out there actually using Thunderbird?
/.er out there that knows of a corporation actually using Eudora/Thunderbird/Other non-outlook product as their official mail client?
I know that in my organization, we actually adopted Firefox as the official browser (with IE removed, after much pains, from the "base installation" of our laptops).
But Outlook still dominates without any real competition as the mail program. I have seen the odd case of Lotus Notes still surviving here and there but as a whole - Its an Exchange/Outlook world.
So - Any
It's not really a waste unless your CPU usage was above 95% to begin with. Why so stingy?
What I want to know is: what about performance? Has it increased or decreased since last version?
Thunderbird 2 has a much more modern refined UI compared to earlier versions, but it still feels and looks very clunky compared to native OS X apps.
I've noticed the same thing about apps like OpenOffice. Looks and feels absolutely hideous under OS X but feels just fine when running on Windows or Linux. It has to be that the OS X desktop/app toolkit and widgets really are THAT much more refined/polished/whatever than other OSes.
I don't want to come off as an Apple fanboy because I use all three major desktops, but running non-native apps on OS X really brings to light just how much more elegant and modern OS X is compared to others.
I don't know why Windows or Linux can't seem to get anywhere near the elegance and polish that Apple seems to be solely able to.
I use IMAP and Thunderbird - and so do all my customers. POP3 is just way too insecure, Outlook is sucky and Thunderbird is the perfect solution.
Maybe think before you write such generalising statements.
Monkeyboi
If you're running a small business with multiple email accounts and/or make heavy use of attachments then a desktop client is the only way to go. You can even use thunderbird with your Gmail account.
Does anyone know about the Fedora Project? Will they import Thunderbird 2.0 or will they go on with 1.5 as the did with Firefox, while waiting for the 3.0 release?
There are 2 types of people in the world - those who understand decimal and those who don't.
I'm not suggesting this is Mozilla's fault, I'm just stating what I understand to be the real stumbling block for TB - and TB2 hasn't fixed it. It's a real shame.
Incidentally, TB really didn't need an overhaul, as far as I could tell. Prolly one of the most stable apps I've used in a long time, and quite powerful enough. Still, I'll have a look...
Meta will eat itself
TB2 has 0.00 processor usage according to activity monitor on a PPC Mini 1.42 GHz.
I would Digg you down as inaccurate, but wrong site.
This article came out a couple of days ago. It's a calendar plugin for Thunderbird 2 that syncs with google calendar. In my opinion, it's not an "Exchange killer," as the title states, but it could be very useful.
Of course it is a waste.
Thunderbird CPU usage on initial startup - approx 0 percent.
Thunderbird CPU usage spike up, of course, on the reception of an email for the first - as it should.
Thunderbird CPU usage now remains at approx 5 percent for absolutely no reason no for as long as the program runs.
Quit Thunderbird and restart, CPU usage goes right back to 0 percent...
Would you gladly accept a 5 percent downgrade in your CPU's performance?
I just tried it. It has 0.0 percent on startup. I sent myself a test email. The program now bounces around 3.3 and 4.5 percent. Definitely something gets started when an email arrives that isn't turned off when the program goes back to idle.
ac_cv_visibility_pragma=no
I've had no luck getting Thunderbird 1.5 to filter mail with .gif attachments. Is this something that's easier to do in 2.0?
You see? You see? Your stupid minds! Stupid! Stupid!
Last week I switched from Linux to Mac OSX, purely so I could run Entourage and interface properly with Exchange.
Thunderbird is an awesome IMAP/POP3 client super stable, really great to use - in an organization that uses Exchange a lot not being able to interface with Exchange properly was a real pain in the arse.
I had a real nightmare trying to use Evolution, it was very unstable, I reinstalled my workstation and did all sorts of stuff but I couldn't get it to be as stable as Thunderbird.
So I've started using a mac for email so I've got a Unix box I can use Exchange on.
Just don't get me started on sharepoint.....
cheers,
Alex
I see your point about it being annoying, but have you put the machine under 100% load and observed that Thunderbird still consumes the same 5% of CPU?
Until you know that, what performance can you truly say really being "lost" if the machine is otherwise 95% idle?
Are you arguing that it's wasting electric power or wasting performance?
Perhaps it is a bug, or perhaps some task is being scheduled opportunistically when there is nothing else to do.
Thunderbird is by far the best mail client for Windows, and from my limited experience the best email client for Linux (though I haven't used Linux much recently). Mail.app (the Mac mail program) runs circles around Thunderbird and any other mail client I've ever used.
Thunderbird has been moving in the general direction of parity with Mail.app, but it isn't there yet. Mail.app still wins handily for its superior preferences menu layout which includes account info and mail filters all in one place. It's also integrated with the OS X address book and spell-checking dictionary. Once Leopard comes out, Mail.app will be integrated with the system-wide calendar process (another new Leopard feature).
And before anybody calls me a Mac fanboy, I still have a strong preference for Firefox over Safari. Safari is so light on features, especially those I take for granted with Firefox, that it's simply not usable (although Firefox should steal a feature or two from Safari to be even better).
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They are still blindly using the Date: field for received and sent mail. The so called fix is to sort by the 'Order Received' column. That column is inaccurate when you start moving messages around between folders. I really wish the TB developers would wake up. I know of no other mail client that doesn't parse out the Received date from the headers and make it available. In fact it is the default date for most other mail clients as well. I've lost count of the number of people who have brought this up to me when I tell them to check out TB. TB (imo) is a superior email client to outlook express except for this one issue that they keep ignoring.
This is based on a beta from a few weeks ago, feel free to correct me if they woke up between then and the release and fixed this issue.
Tagging was in Thunderbird v1.5 (and possible v1 as well) except it was called labels. Why does renaming something suddenly make it a major feature?!
Eudora has an MDI interface for working with mailboxes and messages. I can have multiple messages and/or mailboxes opened simultaneously within a single window in Eudora, whereas last I checked, Thunderbird behaved like Outlook with regard to mailboxes and messages; you can only view one at a time, no tiling or cascading of MDI windows.
Is there a plugin or something that makes Thunderbird behave like Eudora in this regard? If there is, I would totally switch mail clients. I'm only hooked on Eudora because I prefer its UI...
Reinvent the wheel only at either a lower cost, greater effectiveness, or your own personal enrichment and satisfaction.
Thunderbird's newsreader seems the same as it was ever since it was the Netscape newsreader.
hardly anything has changed.
it still displays "Lines" instead of "Size". it also can't join posts like Outlook Express is able to.
why has the newsreader been left unchanged for so long? it looks and works the same (crappy) as it always had. hardly anything has changed since the mid 1990s.
I've read lots of posts about how most people use webmail or whatever their ISP gives them. Well.... that may be true but we all know that the really cool ninjas own their own domain so they can create unlimited email addresses, spam-traps, forwards, mail lists and all kinds of other ninja-like cool stuff. Every time I see a techie person who's using his/her cogeco or hotmail address, I just laugh.
:)
Yes, I am a cool email ninja.
You can find out with a debugger...
Bummer.
i think i will use it if... the passwords, and out going mail servers, are handled in a normal way.
ie, dont have 1 global outgoing server, and passwords are easily managable per account, and can be set up when setting the account up.
portfolio
Message tagging has existed for a long, long time in Thunderbird. You could already hit numeric keys to tag emails, which would change the color of the text in the list. This version formalizes tagging, by adding a toolbar button and assigning actual (user-configurable) names to various colors. I'll continue to use the numeric keys, because as usual keyboard shortcuts are so much faster than mouse-based UI. Still, it's nice to see Thunderbird's features continue to mature.
Dan East
Better known as 318230.
Yep, Sun Microsystems use Firefox and Thunderbird as their "official" supported apps on Windows laptops, home office (anything non-SunRay). Took me about a week to fully give up my calendar from Outlook, but Lightning does just fine.
I used Thunderbird extensively, and then one day, a table that had been pasted onto my message from Excel just "disappeared", i.e., no one who read my mail using outlook could see it at all... just blank space!
Not having the time to figure out what went wrong, here I am, at the mercy of my MS Outlook overlord...
Help!
Capitalism is the Opium of the Masses; Customer is King is the slogan.
This is what happens when I try and upgrade from 1.5:
"Error opening file for writing: \r\n\r\nmozMapi32.dll\r\n\r\nClick Retry to try again, or \r\nCancel to stop the instalation"
Thanks guys...awesome new release.
I use Thunderbird both at work and at home.
This release contains probably a lot of improvment under th hood but what really misses is:
For Mac OS X users like me, I would add:
This would be a proper 2.0 release.
I would also suggest also to write or improve extentions connecting TB with proeminents CRM software (Salesforce, Surgar CRM, ...).
PS: I tried Sunbird but was not convinced.
No? Nothing to see here, move along.
Um, the plural of mail is mail
How come the program still can't filter outbound emails?
If I go to the trouble to filter inbound stuff for a reason, doesn't
it make sense I might want to keep original mail or replies for
the filtered stuff in the same (or sub) folders?
I *just* downloaded rc1 like, two days ago. I just downloaded the final version and diff'ed it with the rc1 candidate and it's the same file, so if you downloaded rc1 already, save yourself a little bit of time and don't bother until the next update.
Do you know whether they've fixed the mess that is "compacting folders" for TB2?
I got very bored of having to manually hack index files because something an end-user should never have to know about wasn't happening and TB 1.5 broke in various ways. I then discovered that you can make it auto-prompt to remind you to compact folders at least, but it does that far too often, including on start-up, which then gets silly messages as your filter rules run.
Other things on my wish list include:
Can anyone who's been trying it confirm whether any of the above have been added? If so, I'll probably upgrade. If not, I'll wait a while in case of silly bugs. Thanks!
If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
... filter messages based on text in their bodies. This is a basic feature in pine, mutt and even outlook. Here is the bug:
1
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6742
That's because it has no good contact management.
Therefore the information has nowhere to go!
So, I'm stuck in OLK land.
Obama's legacy: (N)othing (S)ecure (A)nywhere and (T)error (S)imulation (A)dministration
I'm not sure what the secret to success is, but the secret to failure lies in trying to please everyone -Bill Cosby
Ok never used thunderbird before but I've imported it, is it just me that thought "Outlook Express" after first opening it, from what I can tell it does everything Outlook Express does and misses the two things most important to me
Synchronisation with WM5 device
Calender
Its not bloated and ugly like Open Office (actually its quite pretty OO people take notes) but those things are pretty much integral to my use of Outlook which this would replace. People I ask you is there a way to get these things done I'm upgrading to Office 2007 (sorry but the UI difference in powerpoint and word make it worthwhile for me) but I really don't want to waste the cash getting office professional (just so I can get Outlook) when this actually seems quite a good product. Anyone?
So I wonder when Icedove will be released now?
from a long-time, mostly-happy 1.5 user: they messed with the GUI too much, and only 1 of 5 vital extensions I use is compatible. so I'm left with less functionality, and no new functionality that makes the upgrade worthwhile.
I haven't actually thought much about the sluggishness, as a small detail was what turned me off of FFx2...
When there's only one tab open and I hit CTRL+W I want to close that window. FFx1.5 does that as it ought, FFx2 does not... Small thing, I know.
I'm disappointed. No new features I actually want, at least 1 of the bugs I'm really annoyed about not fixed, and at least 1 new bug added.
Firstly, doing a 'check for updates' in the old version (1.5 for OS X, I think) told me there wasn't a new one. Then when I manually downloaded, installed and got past the inevitable 'we broke all the extensions' message, it's ignoring my preference to show text not icons in the toolbars. So I go into preferences, and it's saying I'm showing text only. I workround by switching to text plus icons then back to text only. It's decided to ignore my custom toolbar settings from the old version, so I manually rebuild them the way I like them. The text doesn't line up, 'get mail' floats half a line too high, and 'tag' is out of line too. The gaps between the text isn't consistent horizontally, there's more space around 'junk' than other tools.
Then the real pain, viewing full headers is still totally broken. The header text doesn't wrap, it ignores text size changes, and it can't be cut and pasted either. This means that I can't see the crucial part of the header that says the original 'to' address, after it's been forwarded to the catch-all on my domain, as it's on a line that's longer than my monitor is wide. So I still can't unsubscribe from a couple of (now spam dominated) Yahoo groups that I signed up to with throwaway names, as I have can't read the header to find out the throwaway name I used!
The jury is still out on the other annoying bug, where the automated 'compact folders' and automated 'get mail' try to run at the same time as each other and throw up a message blaming me for not waiting for one to finish before the other.
A pizza of radius z and thickness a has a volume of pi z z a
So far, I am digging the new look, very easy on the eyes.
So, here is what I do, why I do it, and what I wanted that doesn't seem to exist.
I check my mail from thunderbird, webmail, and mutt. So, using the incoming message filters to sort mail is not a good option. I use procmail for that. But, I would like to make use of the message filters to assign tags to certain letters. But, as far as I can tell, they are only automatically run for the inbox, other folders must have the filters run manually. Cause yeah, I want to do that. Am I wrong? Can this be done?
The improved tagging is very nice, now, let me automatically tag all my messages in all my folders and it will be damned near perfect.
--Nuintari
slashdot : where an opinion can be wrong.
More like "labelling". So it's easier to make labels now. When I think tagging, I think free tagging like there is here or on del.icio.us. Multiple tags per message. Assistance finding relevant tags that already exist. Advanced searching via tags.
I downloaded TB, and it's, well, okay. Nothing to write home about. Activity spinner still never turns off on my MacBookPro.
Has this been fixed with the new release?
I ended up switching to Pegasus Mail, which seems to handle the problem of old-mail management much more smoothly. --And it actually deletes the things I tell it to delete. Hallelujah!
I'm now in a position of, "If it ain't broke. .
-FL
Is it just me, or does the little arrow in current 'order by' column point the wrong way?
Shouldn't it work the same as 'greater than' and 'less than' ?
This annoyed me in the old version and it's still the same in 2.0.
Time zone converter
One question...
Why does the new "Junk" icon look like a flame? Most of us don't burn our trash anymore.
..right?
5 ).
okay, maybe not - not noted in the bug anyway ( turn off referrer: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9216
In summary: You cannot rename a folder name "foo" to "Foo" (e.g. a case change). You have to rename "foo" to "foo_", and then rename "foo_" to "Foo".
Moron, did you even bother to understand the bug in Thunderbird?
Thanks so much, apple-U shows the headers properly! I'd assumed 'message source' meant viewing html/mime formatting, but the headers are there too, with line-wraps. This is a great work-round for me and anyone else trapped by this problem.
The yahoo panel only works if you know which throwaway yahoo ID you used...
A pizza of radius z and thickness a has a volume of pi z z a
I can't, for the life of me, figure out how to get T-bird 2 to bring in my settings from Thunderbird 1.5. I'm running Ubuntu Edgy Eft (for the moment, Feisty Fawn next week). When I first launched TB2, it asked me if I wanted to import settings, but didn't give any options for where to import from. I'm guessing this is incredibly easy and obvious, but the knowledge base isn't much help on this score. Any advice appreciated!
Why is it assumed it to be the role of mail clients to include calendar functionality? In ye olde worlde where computers belonged in an office 'email a colleague, schedule a meeting' made great sense. But that was fifteen years ago. Today our computers are home desktops, and it is for these that Mozilla's Thunderbird is designed. Office workers sat by their computers were always there to receive reminders about meetings. Today we're more rarely at our machines, yet we're ever more connected. If I want a friend, we can speak *instantaneously* using a phone or instant messaging. If I want a group of friends, I can use a social network to talk to all of them. I don't add 7pm Mark's to *my* calendar, but to all my friends. All the invitees can see who else is coming. Friday night, I won't be home for my computer to tell me where the party's headed. I'm on the move, and need that information with me, on my phone or on a PET [Personal Electronic Thing].
No-one laments Gmail's lack of a calendar.
I used Thunderbird 1.x for a long time, and was pretty satisfied with it as an email client. But once I switched to GMail, the only thing I used Thunderbird for was RSS feeds, and it sucked royally at that. For example, trying to keep RSS feeds arranged in folders would have fun effects like not being able to delete the feeds, or the feeds failing to check for new items!
Eventually it drove me so insane that I switched to Google Reader, which I am still using despite several flaws. Does anyone know if Thunderbird 2 has improved its RSS support?
I just upgraded to Thunderbird 2.0 from 1.5 version and have been constantly seeing crashes as soon as I try to retrieve gmail pop mail. Anyone else seeing the same problem?
I believe this is my last peeve with FF & Thunderbird. Just give me a dialogue box, "yes, install the newest version."
Gosh I'm pampered, or something like that.
damaged by dogma
I'm a synaesthete, I visualize music as shapes and colors and words, digits and letters have a color. I downloaded Thunderbird 2.0 today and learnt about the colorful tagging which is totallay awesome for synaesthetes!
An example: A friend of mine is called "Philip", a navy blue word to me, so I created a navy blue tag "Philip" and "tagged" all of his emails. I guess you get the idea.
As I am tagging all my emails according to the first names of the sender, my incoming folder becomes more and more colorful. Really great stuff! Now it looks like I have always perceived it.
-Nahooda
Sigs suck!
I don't get it. Why doesn't Mozilla use tar.bz2 for the final releases like they do for the nightly builds? tar.bz2 files are much smaller, and it is not harder to type 'j' instead of 'z'. I don't get it.
What, version 2.0 and it STILL doesn't show how big attachments are (sending nor receiving). STILL doesn't properly show mail download progress. Oh but hey, I can get a weather plugin for it. sheesh.
I did some digging around. if you use the default ubuntu installation of thunderbird, it places all your profile info in a directory called ~/.mozilla-thunderbird
.thunderbird
.mozilla-thunderbird directory to .thunderbird, and then start Thunderbird 2.0 for the first time. I did this on Edgy Eft and it works fine.
However, Thunderbird, when installed directly, looks for
so the fix is easy: just copy (or move) the
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Wonder what was broken?
Ever since Mulberry Mail went free (as in beer), I switched from Thunderbird and haven't looked back. It's dramatically faster and includes a whole lot of features that I use that I had always been frustrated that Thunderbird didn't have. Apart from those who are attracted to Thunderbird because of its license, why aren't more people using Mulberry? Does Thunderbird 2.0 change this perspective?
Can it delete multiple collapsed threads yet, or does it *still* just snip off the first email and leave the rest to bug you later???
Red to red, black to black. Switch it on, but stand well back.
As soon as I noticed the release I went to try it out. I threw together a Thunderbird RPM based on the binary distribution for ease of management. I put up some instructions based on the work of another writer a few years back, figuring it might be elpful to others, but there is truth to the earlier point about how many early adopters of just-released email clients there really are. It seems to me that the early adopters are technically knowledgeable enough to put together whatever packaging they'd like, and newer users of Fedora or any other RPM based linux distribution would be unlikely to install non-repo based RPMs regardless. In any case, they're out there, and to give gredit where credit is due, Thomas Chung did great work with initial versions of the spec file.
--CTH
--Got Lists? | Top 95 Star Wars Line
just copy (or move) the .mozilla-thunderbird directory to .thunderbird
I concur with this response. I usually wait for the Ubuntu debs to come out and install those instead - this would have prevented your problem. Using the package manager can make administration easier but sometimes means you have to wait a little longer for new releases.
My list view looks weird, but the messages are intact. The list looks like the messages are on top of each other and sometimes turn all blue like I am selecting several from the list. I an not using any other add-ons. Am I the only one? Please help. Windows XP, IMAP
i have SmtpSelect 0.1.1 installed with thunderbird 1.5.0.10. works like a charm. gives you the option to click-select smtp server for individual emails.
Upon download, my list view now shows messages scrambled and on top of each other. The messages themselves are intact, but the list view is unreadable. Windows XP, IMAP.... and yes, I did restart. :P
Can anybody tell me why the Mac version of Thunderbird does not have the option of window notifications? You can bounce the icon in the dock, but you have to jump through some hoops (YAMB, scripting and growl) to get a gmail notifier-style pop-up notification if you like to keep your dock hidden.
I love the labels, which is why I started using Thunderbird 2.0 when it was in beta, but the notifications seemed a bit far behind. Perhaps it is time to give Mail.app another looksee?
I don't see how you should have any issues if you mail server doesn't have any AAAA records. Even if it does, as long as your interfaces only have link local IPs (fe80::), an attempted IPv6 connection should fail immediately (no route to host) and drop back to IPv4.
This is the ONE SINGLE deal breaker for me and pretty much everyone I know.
So many spammers set their clocks to the future (so they can get your stupid mail client to sort their mail to the top), so many stupid people set incorrect dates, that when you get a new incoming mail, you have to go through your ENTIRE LIST of emails hunting it down, since it might be wedged somewhere between 2007 and 2000 (or whatever the sender's computer's date is set to).
Sigh... I've seen people complain about this since the BEGINNING and they STILL have not fixed it? Even bloomin Outlook Express does it right!
**FREE** Track and view your phone's via CellID and/or WIFI and/or GPS
Tags have been there since Mozilla 1.x days, and stars are just relabelled flags, so where are the improvements that warrant a major release bump?
The only major change I can see is a regression where they've removed the incredibly useful "Show tags that are:" dropdown box removing the most useful element of tagging. I'm going back to 1.5.
"Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife
When composing a message, if you hit the up or down arrow, it goes to the beginning or end of the line you're moving to. I'm sure that's (yet another) a GTK "feature" that makes me hate GTK worse than Windows, but it didn't use to be that way. It's infuriating. I think the address book interface needs a lot of work as well. I guess I need to spend the time need to get KMail running. I've used Thunderbird for years, but it continues to feel like beta software to me.
This worked like a charm -- thanks!
F.A.B.
(Does it come with the multiple carg?o pods (like the mole and Thunderbird 4)?
Poor Thunderbird. I want to use it, I really do.
But why can it import all my Outlook Express settings *EXCEPT* my mail rules?
I have so many mail rules (move this to that folder, this to another folder) that recreating them is a major task.
It's because of that alone that I had to uninstall Thunderbird 2 after just 10 minutes of use.
Does anyone know a way around this?
This would be the Thunderbird 2 that 'just works', would it2 _is_out.html )? hahaha.
( http://www.boingboing.net/2007/04/19/thunderbird_
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
You are posting Microsoft code without permission of them ? ..
--- I am known for the ones who want to find me on the net. Is that a privacy risk or a privilege? One might wonder..
I am afraid I do not know how to do it in Linux. But if you install MboxImport extension you can export with structure and subfolders to a location. Then install Thunderbird 2.0 and import the structure and it will get imported with folders and all.
Best place to ask is Mozillazine, there's been lots of questions answered on this already. (at least one from me)