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RMS Protest Song On Gitmo
An anonymous reader tipped us to a protest song RMS has written and recorded (while visiting Cuba) and is hosting on stallman.org. It's a sort of parody, although it's too serious really to be called that, in Spanish of the song "Guantanamera," in which a Gitmo prisoner talks about his experiences and mourns his fate. RMS wrote the lyrics in 2006 after learning what "Guantanamera" actually means. The lyrics are moving, and the recording, in Ogg, is competent — RMS sings well and he's got some amateur musicians from Cuba backing him up. Here are the lyrics and an English translation.
Just go suck on Fidel's cock for a while you fucking communist pig asshole!!
"Be free, hackers, be free..."
jX [ Make everything as simple as possible, but no simpler. - Einstein ]
...only reinforce the view that Stallman and his crowd are a bunch of communists.
He should stick to what he's good at, writing software.
I wonder how he managed to visit Cuba without violating the federal law that prohibits US citizens from trading with our enemies.
Muslim community leaders warn of backlash from tomorrow morning's terrorist attack.
but Ogg only?
Yeah I know its RMS, so ideology wins over practicality. But I'd think AAC would be ok, and then it could be played with iTunes or whatever.
I was expecting something like this...
My other account has a 3-digit UID.
For reasons of national security this matter may not be discussed.
Don't forget: Dissent kills marines
...to camp gitmo.
I hate when people use acronyms that they assume everyone knows. Even though I knew it, I would not be surprised if many did not.
The Road to Guantanamo - about three British muslims who end up in Gitmo, get abused and then released.
Real life is overrated.
feel slightly better about the guy now... Don't ask me why.
Not that I ever hated the guy, I only know what I read about him.
Maybe if Bush recorded a protest song in a foreign language I would find his zealot-ous rhetoric easier to swallow.
Regards.
P.S. Hey... My first troll-bait post!!! *shakes his own hand*
First the visit to Cuba (bitch and moan about the embargo how much you want, folks, but it's NOT a democratic and free country), now this?
Why hasn't Stallman said anything about other non democratic countries that treat people even worse? Like Cuba, or China, for example. Because they use free software so they're "friends"? What a lame hypocrite. I'm glad the whole Free Software movement is not like him.
I openly despise such a raving fanatic, that I thought had sunk already low with his babbling mention of "liberating everyone in the cyberspace" (don't have the link at hand, but it's on Groklaw).
A CC-licensed illustrated horror novel
Gets out the lighter.
This comes off as preachy. No one wants to listen to that. It's much better to describe it than to spell it out.
Root mean square?
I mean come on really... "RMS Protest Song On Gitmo" is completely meaningless.
Let me get this straight. As long as Castro embraces software freedom, actual political freedom is irrelevant in Stallman's world.
This is the same man who links to impeach Bush sites -- presumably not because of Bush's lack of embracing software freedom, though based on the current evidence, Stallman would forgive Bush for everything if he would embrace free software.
Sometimes it's best to just let stupid people be stupid.
Ah hell, lets smoke bong loads and let 'em all out. They are all innocent shepherds and shopkeepers anyway. They can live next door to me. I mean, it's pefectly legit to teach the Quran even if you can't read. And Tora Bora is just a vacation spot, never mind you carried an AK and some grenades instead of a camera.
Lawrence Person (lawrencepersonh@gmailh.com (remove all "h"s to mail)
http://www.lawrenceperson.com/
We're talking about FOSS here day and night, however, I highly doubt that lots of people here can't play OGG without installing any kind of software.
I'm busy listening to Andrea Corr's "Shame On You" antiwar song from her new solo album to be released in June by Atlantic.
Check out the 30-second sample on her MySpace page or her Bebo page.
They had the full songs up on the Bebo page at one point, but took them down after a while, but not before I got the whole versions of all three of the songs they posted.
Richard Steven Hack - This sig is TOO GODDAMN SHORT TO DO ANYTHING USEFUL WITH! MORONS!
Let's bitch about Gitmo. Only one pillow per prisoner, the temperature is sligtly out of whack, the food is unnaceptable -- too much fat, they're getting chubby. Why not write a song about real torture instead of panties on someones head and loud Chili Pepper music?
Beautiful piece..
Actually I made my own RMS protest song, using one of his speeches as a voice sample over a hiphopish track. When I asked him for sample clearence he told me he didn't like it, and that his voice made it worse. But I could post it anyway, so here goes my music/blog spam: http://ringheimsauto.org/index.php/illegal-musikk/ (mp3/ogg/flac).
How the hell did this get moderated as "Troll"? It has a perfectly good point behind it - why should a country that constantly plays on how free it is limit its citizens to where they travel?
She's built like a steak house, but she handles like a bistro....
Does anyone else appreciate the extreme irony of going to protest in Cuba, a nation that was rated as having the second least free press (just behind North Korea) in the world, no political freedom of any sort, and thousands of political prisoners. Cuba is a nation where if someone decided to go protest against the political prisoners held in Cuban jails, they would be rounded up and tossed into jail. Going to Cuba to protest some other nations violations of liberty is the sort of thing that should make people laugh until they cry.
"Let me get this straight. As long as Castro embraces software freedom, actual political freedom is irrelevant in Stallman's world."
And who do you think is a good example of embracing freedom, if you were going to consider the USA, then consider the following points.
- Doesn't recognize the democratically elected palistinian government as being legitimate
- Recognize Pakistan's military dictatorship as legitimate.
- Places domestic travel bans on its citizens
- Limits travel to other countries (as mentioned above)
- Spies on its own people without probable cause, (echlon/carnivore/whatever its called now, RFID ? )
- Violates its own constitution (count the ways)
- No longer has a clear separation from the judicial system (sacking bush unfriendly judges)
- Highest imprisonment rate of any country per head of population
- The government of some states kill their own people (capital punishment)
Face it, "land of the free" is nothing more than a propaganda term.
RMS isnt superman... solving all the worlds problems is too much for one person, maybe he just wants to concentrates on software freedom, doesnt mean he shouldnt express his views on other types of freedom.
If you would expect RMS to keep silent about his views on political freedom, then can you honestly say you respect political freedom ?
90% of what comes out of his mouth is pure drivel and should be discarded. 5% is sentimentally true but needs lots of editing to be generally palatable. The last 5% are actually good ideas.
Recover whatever ideas you can from him and incorporate them into your own beliefs, if you so choose. The rest can be safely ignored, because nobody else is going to listen to him with any seriousness. Really, I don't understand what the problem is here.
At least this song doesn't make my ears bleed.
But, hey, it also made him a much nicer person in my opinion. Almost everything I read about him concerns such fanatical debates that one forgets he is a human being. And his Spanish accent is not too bad, although he would need to polish a bit his "r" sounds.
The only decent paroday of Guantanamera is "One Ton Tomato" and there are numerous versions of that.
So, RMS becomes Castro's latest "useful idiot".
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
I think people who were wavering about whether what we are doing in Guantanamo is right, will come down on the side of Bush when they see unkempt hippie commies like RMS singing their juvenile "protest" songs. WAKE UP people - we are at WAR after all. RMS should be put on trial for treason...
..... but I grew up in Florida and know a LARGE number of Cuban immigrants that would scoff at your remarks. They've had family members tortured and killed in some of the most horrif and brutal ways immaginable. I'll take a family members first hand account over some leftist whacko apologists "buyer beware" statements anyday.
Who are you talking about? Last time I checked their official news agency used Windows Server 2003
Bill Gates is gonna counter by releasing a song about how we need more H1B's to replace Godless communist OSS programmers.
Table-ized A.I.
STFU
The song has NOTHING at all to do with Cuba, it's about Gitmo which, for all practical purposes, is 100% American.
He happened to write the song while in Cuba, so what? He could have written it in Argentina or Canada or China.
Now go back to your GI Joes, the grown-ups are talking.
How about a song? Huh? You gonna write one? I would but I have no piano available. Wanna give me a piano so I can make one? I got a piano you can transport for me so I can write your song. Give me a chance, get my piano to me and I'll do it. Promise.
GENERATION 26: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation.
It's not just me; Netcraft confirms it. Stallman is an asshole.
Sometimes at night I imagine the darkness is filled with horrible things with too many teeth, like Julia Roberts.
It's funny the way that, when someone points out something bad done by Americans we all have to hear about how many other worse things there are.. However; in this case it's very clear. RMS is from the USofA. He has much more responsibility for the direct acts of his country. He should protest against Guantanamo first and Cuban dictators second. Even more; once, not so long ago, the US was a major force for human rights. E.g. the UN Genocide conventions; pre-war work on the Geneva conventions etc. etc. Now, whenever people from the US complain about human rights in Cuba, others can just say "yes the Cubans are bad, but at least they don't torture people to death like you did with the Iraqi general, and many others".
Cleaning up Gitmo would really help start to get the moral basis of American human rights back on track. It's a first step toward getting the right to criticise Cuba back.
You mean every country, including the US, has always held prisoners - without trial - until the end of hostilities? You mean that the Left is holding Bush to an entirely different standard than any previous president in wartime? You mean in past wars, prisoners weren't Mirandized on the battlefield and given one phone call and lawyers and full Constitutional protections including speedy trials?
And to answer your next question [when will they be released?], when al Qaeda surrenders. Oh, but they will never surrender! Sorry, that's the rules in wartime. Why should they be different simply because this enemy flouts all conventions of war and is more tenacious? This is a real war people. I can only hope it doesn't take a Nuke in a major US city - by a released Gitmo prisoner - to convince you.
I honestly believe this. Don't mod troll or flamebait just because you disagree with it. Sometimes things you disagree with sting a little.
Slashdot "libertarians": Small government for me, big government for those I disagree with. -1, I disagree with you
BFD
And in other insignificant RMS fanbody/cult news:
RMS eats a meal!
RMS breathes!
RMS blows his nose!
What's next? RMS and Lyndon LaRouche announce their ticket for the 2008 US Presidential elections?
The Cuban government also has a prison in Guantanamo, near the American one. Search the Internet on what happens there. Compare to what happens on the American version. Then come talk to me how America is evil.
And no, I'm not American and I don't live on USA. But I wish I could.
Conservatism: (n.) love of the existing evils. Liberalism: (n.) desire to substitute new evils for the existing ones.
If you're looking for higher-quality, non-politically-motivated info, or think that the Cuban government is being unfairly maligned, check out Amnesty International's evaluation: http://web.amnesty.org/report2006/cub-summary-eng/
Again, why does the enemy, with its intransigence, get to decide the rules? Surrender and we'll let everyone go. It is quite simple. And there is no such thing as "international law" unless it is a treaty that the US has signed and ratified, and under the US legal system, any treaty is superseded by subsequent conflicting federal law (e.g., the Detainee Treatment Act). I don't recall suspending the US Constitution and surrendering US sovereignty to the United Nations.
Slashdot "libertarians": Small government for me, big government for those I disagree with. -1, I disagree with you
This doesn't say enough about someone to impeach their credibility. Lots of people link to impeach Bush sites. Your observations about Fidel Castro (an irrelevant figure to this story if you had RTFA) seem a little quaint since he would probably have made a better president than Bush. And there is nothing unreasonable about impeachment itself:
Sorry to say that so frankly but I'm disgusted by the foreign policy of the US. But then I read Slashdot, a site which I consider only educated ppl read and ppl who are able to think for themselves... And then I read so many weird comments relativising Guanatanamo.
... say Germany, a powerful first world country and not usually seen as being part of the "axis of evil" would hijack a US citzien visiting Italy, flying him to say... Afghanistan, let him torture him by locals to gain information, figure out that I was a mistake and after holding him for 2+ years release him without any charges.
The fact is, that the US is hijacking foreigners in foreign countries, flying them to 3d-world countries to torture them and circumvent US laws.
Just one question: What would you say if
What would you then think of Germany as a country?
Thing is, the US is exactly behaving like this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khalid_El-Masri
Then imagine reading a german website where a lots of Germans would say: "Well capturing foreigners and holding them without trial is not such a bad thing. At least we're not torturing them... well at least not so brutal... and giving them food. And bibles."
Then figure what your opinion of Germany and the German ppl would be.
So is RMS now singing a different tune? The Hurd started in 1990.
That was seventeen years ago.
SEVENTEEN YEARS.
And it's not even ready for an alpha release.
This is what RMS has become. This is now how he spends his time.
Whither the bazaar?
Withered.
No one, especially RMS, would say that actual political freedom is irrelevant (you should check out his website).
http://www.recreantview.org/songs/jonobacon-freeso ftwaresong.ogg
And the music. And the food - if you can get anything more than just rice and beans.
The U.S is a nasty place, no freedoms, Bush is a dictator, blah blah blah.
There are few countries in this world where the U.S. hasn't gone in and saved their ass from something or someone.
We spend more money on international aid than anyone else.
Yeah, we toast son's of bitches that commit capital crimes, but it takes 10 years and millions of dollars, unlike your precious Palestinian terrorist government that will go from accusation to execution in a few hours...usually skipping the trial.
Bush sacked U.S. Prosecutors you moron, not judges. And there was nothing wrong with it because those jobs are political appointments.
I am so tired of punk wads bitching and moaning about the U.S. while their own little third world, backwater hovel is taking money (my money) from us.
And if you don't have the guts to sign on and let everyone know who you are, then you can just sit down and shut the F**k up.
When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
Here comes the helicopter -- second time today
Everybody scatters and hopes it goes away
How many kids they've murdered only God can say
If I had a rocket launcher...I'd make somebody pay
I don't believe in guarded borders and I don't believe in hate
I don't believe in generals or their stinking torture states
And when I talk with the survivors of things too sickening to relate
If I had a rocket launcher...I would retaliate
On the Rio Lacantun, one hundred thousand wait
To fall down from starvation -- or some less humane fate
Cry for guatemala, with a corpse in every gate
If I had a rocket launcher...I would not hesitate
I want to raise every voice -- at least I've got to try
Every time I think about it water rises to my eyes.
Situation desperate, echoes of the victims cry
If I had a rocket launcher...Some son of a bitch would die
According to an article called "Hell Fire!" by Bridget Freer, FHM magazine, December 1999 issue, "If I Had A Rocket Launcher" was one of the songs played at high volume outside the Vatican Embassy in Panama City in 1989, in order to drive out Manuel Noriega. Along with "I Fought The Law" and "Nowhere To Run" among others, it was not successful because of complaints from the Ambassador.
the sons and daughters of democratic countries have their sympathies with the treatment of mostly terrorist assholes, imprisoned on an island which is mostly a totalitarian state?
it's kind of like looking at a molehill, and seeing great evil, and spending all of your time obsessing about it... and completely forgetting the mountain right over your shoulder
it's really odd to me
kind of an inability to have perspective, to understand scale, to perceive context
if the treatment of the prisoners in guantanamo bay were the largest problem facing the world, which the attention pointed to it would seem to suggest, then the world would be a very wonderful place
as it is, for every single issue you are worried about, if guantamo bay is the penultimate example of that issue in your mind, you seem to be extremely deprived of contact with the reality as things be in most of the world
why guantanamo garners so much attnetion, to me this speaks of people out of touch with the reality of the world, it speaks to me of western children
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
And two of those principles have been 1) We hold POWs until the war is over and 2) the Constitution has never, ever applied to foreign nationals captured on the battlefield (until, apparently, George W. Bush is president).
The Constitution is not a suicide pact.
Slashdot "libertarians": Small government for me, big government for those I disagree with. -1, I disagree with you
I agree that the Bush Administration has been inconsistent and has tried to have it both ways. But if, as you say, the administration is wrong, why should its arguments have any validity in the historical paradigm I laid out (i.e., that POWS are held until hostilities cease)? Just because Bush is inconsistent (something I have lamented from Day One of this war), doesn't make the Free Gitmo! crowd right. The guys in there are hard core and many have been found on the battlefield more than once after being released from custody. This is why the US (and all countries) has always held enemies in POW camps, so they can't go back to shooting at us!
move to discredit terrorist organizations
Good idea in the abstract, but terrorism has continued for half a century, and it doesn't seem to be becoming discredited any time soon. And rather than call out terrorists, we see a UN that won't even pass resolutions against it (unless it is Israel defending itself) let alone take action, an international press (e.g., BBC) that won't even use the word "terrorist," and a US Democratic Congress that has just banned the term "War on Terror" in all war appropriations bills. Sounds like 1938 appeasement all over again.
The problem is, most of the world is in a "it was on TV, so it can't happen to me" mass media slumber, and doesn't take this worldwide, fascist, revolutionary movement seriously, or they want to appease it. Problem is, there is no ignoring or appeasing Islamicists. In the New Caliphate, there is no other choice but to conform or die, and many of the conformists are asked to die too.
Slashdot "libertarians": Small government for me, big government for those I disagree with. -1, I disagree with you
His comment was a play on a conservative American figure (Bill O'Reilly) who belongs to a camp of commentators that use inflamatory rhetoric to whip the populace up.
I will check out the book you referenced when I get a chance.
Regards.
but i will say this:
if you go on and on and on with anger and righteous outrage and high holy terror about the evils of guantanamo
and then you go
"oh yeah, those other things are bad to"
when those other things are orders of magnitude worse
then you have some really weird priorities
and you look kind of hollow and empty and childish
to attack molehills, and ignore mountains
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
You seem to be suggesting that since this enemy is so unconventional in its strategy, tactics, and form, that (despite flouting all rules of war) it should get special treatment. This makes no sense. We reward, rather than punish, those who betray all rules of war?
And what possible crime can someone be charged with in US Courts when they are caught in a foreign country where US Courts have no jurisdiction?
Slashdot "libertarians": Small government for me, big government for those I disagree with. -1, I disagree with you
"Or maybe it's because as a democracy, we are responsible for our decisions, not for anyone else's. We are accountable for the leaders we elect, because we freely elected them. We had the choice to do things differently, we chose not to. If our leaders misbehave, commit crimes, etc, then WE are culpable. Nobody else."
if a guy jaywalks on the street, scream and yell and curse about it, because he listens to you. but if another guy murders, and doesn't listen to your, well then ignore him. so your morality is based on how much the criminal responds to you, regardless of the scale of his crime? pfffft
furthermore, we live in the age of jet air travel and the internet. what happens in kandahar, matters in manhattan. there is no magic wall separating "us" from "them". we are them, they are us. there is no place you, as a human being, are not responsible for. the only morally and intellectually defensible position on any issue in the world in today's world is a global one. there is no american problem, or middle eastern problem, or chinese problem, etc. there are only problems. human problems. and so you need a human conscience, an attitude that considers all problems in such a way that their scale, no matter how far away from you, is the only judge of how far up your agenda it should lie. do you consider yourself a person of human morality? do you think you have a human conscience? well then stop coming at me like you have only an american conscience, only a western morality
"Or maybe it's because education is random, cultural evolution has been sporadic, technological evolution has been hoarded, and military hardware is on sale to anyone who wants it. There is no reason to expect anyone to behave in a mature, sane fashion around nukes or other high-power weaponry, when we make no effort to raise the standards of understanding and education. Ethics isn't found in a christmas cracker, it's found only in understanding."
uh... coherence please?
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
Bush didn't sack any judges. Those were lawyers that work for the Justice dept of the administrative branch. They can be fired at a President's whim. There's nothing wrong with using the death penalty to get rid of the scum of the earth. Not unlike the current Palestinian government which is run by a terrorist group.
I was one of the producers, you can see here the full credits.
Actually there's no legal basis for the operation of a prison camp at Guantanamo bay.
... one of a long, long, string of such adventures in US military history. In actual fact - as opposed to legalistic theory - the base belongs to the US by brute force. They have effectively annexed it, and they will use it as they see fit, because it suits them to do so, and because they can. Don't like it? Tough!
The Cuban govt is in no way "bound to honor the old agreement". The continued existence of the base has a much more mundane reason - that the Cubans are (for very sensible military reasons) not willing to go to war against the US to restore their sovereignty of this bit of national territory.
As for the so-called "lease" itself:
Firstly, it's unenforceable under international law, because it was imposed on the Cuban govt under military force. There's a Vienna convention on treaties that deals with this, amongst other things. During the colonial period, the world's colonial powers imposed all kinds of "concessions" and "treaties" on their subject peoples, and these concessions have almost always been abrogated by military, rather than legal means; i.e. by the use (or the threat of use) of force against the occupiers.
Secondly, even if the "lease" itself had any legal credibility, the terms of the lease explicitly specify that the naval base is to be used purely as a naval base and coaling station, and for no other purpose. Use of the base as a prison is a clear breach of the terms of the lease.
The legal fiction of a "lease" is just a fig-leaf covering up a colonial occupation of part of the territory of Cuba, very like the long US military occupation of the Panama canal zone. I guess, though, that the "lease" story plays rather better in the US than in other parts of the world, particularly in Latin America, and especially in Cuba itself. If you ask Cubans what they think - and I have - it's that the base is illegal, and a cynical insult to their national pride and legitimate patriotic feelings. The govt has repeatedly demanded that it be closed, and the territority returned to Cuban sovereignty, but apart from that, what can Cubans do? They can't take it back by force, because that could mean a major war with the most powerful nation in history, over nothing more than a valuable bit of real estate. They can't sue for it in an international court of justice, because the US govt cares nothing for international law. So all they can do is complain, and protest.
In short, the "lease" is bullshit - the camp is just another military occupation
Having read so many of these comments and replies, I have a couple of random thoughts.
Thought #1: I don't fault anyone for being anti-Bush. It certainly is their perogative. I do think that generalizing all Americans, the US, and American culture and beliefs based on the actions of this administration is haphazard at best. There are many citizens working to change recent US policy. There are many citizens that aren't happy with the actions of this administration, with some attempting to go so far as push impeachment. While not all grassroot efforts don't always succeed, its nice to live in a country where grassroot efforts can happen.
Thought #2: Is it me or does it seem that there are a lot of people who when they become an expert in one or two subjects think they are experts in all subjects. I applaud people for having their own viewpoints, but not when they speak as if they are an authority on the matter. I include many people who have commented thus far and RMS himself.
Thought #3: I like living in a country or under a system where I generally have the right to choose to share what's mine or horde if I want. Say what you will about capitalism, but if one chooses a more "communist" set of values within a capitalist system, there is nothing to stop them from sharing. Well, unless Eugene McCarthy is around.
Thought #4: I caution all in citing history and historical references. History isn't always the facts, no matter whether it is the history written by the "winners" or the history written by those who got the short end of the stick. Listen to it all and read it all, but remember that generally the facts lie somewhere in the middle.
Thought #5: Yes it may be irresponsible and yes it may be insensitive to those who don't have the luxuries I have, but damn it, life is too short. Let's all step back and not take life so seriously.
Go hug some trees and cry, you fucking pinko Liberals. "Gitmo, waah!" Do you people fucking listen to yourselves? I've got a fucking idea, how about we release all the terrorists held at Gitmo into the United States? Better yet, let them spend the night at your houses. Anyone who says that we arrest innocent people deserves a brute-force colonoscopy.
The truth is, the CRIMINALS and TERRORISTS who are being held in Guantanamo Bay ARE NOT RANDOM FUCKING PEOPLE PULLED OFF THE STREETS! Do you believe EVERYTHING that spews from the asshole of America, MoveOn.org? Everyone there was arrested on the grounds that they were found possessing weapons caches that are used to kill U.S. SOLDIERS!
I'm about to go FUCKING CRAZY! FUCKING LIBERALS, WHY DON'T YOU GO JUMP OFF A FUCKING CLIFF? If America is so fucking bad, MOVE TO IRAQ so we can BOMB THE FUCKING HELL OUT OF YOU! Go suck Al Gore's dick and smell your own farts while you're at it, you hybrid-driving enviro-faggots!
in papua new guinea, murder is an abhorent crime
in saudi arabia, murder is an abhorent crime
in the netherlands, murder is an abhorent crime
morality isn't so relativistic as you believe. certainly, there are differences from place to place, but that doesn't stop you from making universal moral proclamations about universally abhorent practices, because such things do exist
in fact, those universally abhorent practices are where you should start making your moral pronouncements, because by doing so, you establish consensus, rather than divide, amongst the earth's peoples
it is really such a wacky idea to you that your moral agenda should start with the most universally abhorent crimes?
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
Are Guantanamo Prisoners considered POW's now? The last I heard the Bush administration had categorized them as "enemy combatants"; a term intended to hold them beyond the jurisdiction of the Geneva Conventions, the criminal justice system, or any other legal standard that would impose decency upon their captors. I would like to ask Americans this question: Would you find it acceptable if captured Americans were treated exactly the way that Guantanamo Prisoners are treated? Would you not claim that they were being deprived of their rights?
If I were in combat I would want the enemy to know that if he surrenders, he will not be treated as prisoners have been in Abu Ghraib or Guantanamo. I would want the enemy to surrender willingly, not fight to the death to avoid the fate of an American gulag.
if you're going to bomb citizens and schools in afghanistan with the justification, that a terrorist group active in the country funded by a seperate country was tolerated by the country's government, then you have to allow a citizen to criticise his own government.
The sad thing is how short people's memories are, and how ill-prepared they are to use their brains rather than allow themselves to be manipulated by politicians.
It wasn't that long ago when any post on Slashdot indicating any kind of anti-Bush sentiment would bring out all the rednecks like fleas on a dog's back. Any question that anyone of Middle Eastern appearance was not inherently evil had them all frothing at the mouth, spitting invective at these left-wing pinko commies.
Now the atrocities are mounting up in Cuba, Iraq and Afghanistan, just a few people are starting to think about what is happening, but few will stop to wonder about how they were played like an accordion before.
I actually was going through all the posts to get to this one, I knew it'd be here..
You're an arse with no idea what you're talking about.
Richard Stallman has accomplished more and done more for computing than you have.
He has accomplished VASTLY more and done more in his life than you have.
Of these facts I am completely certain.
Pigfucking closeminded so called thinkers, who deride everyone that has a twinge of ideology to their thought have drained the political landscape. Not a bit of honesty, vision, or hope can be accepted at face value. The end result is the same repetitive speeches and promises for the masses and a quick and insightful wag of the finger from Any Given Newscaster describing any public voice with anything new to say as over the top, crazy. unpalatable, safely ignorable as a result of their radicalism. Most importantly, naive.
That is to say that you and your know it all ilk are depriving the world of its balls.
I have read the book put out on Richard Stallman, read many things he has written throughout the years. I have never been able to just toss his ideas aside. I am too aware of an important truth: The world is an imperfect system, down to every function of ecology, sociology, or economy, that you could describe. So I keep my ears wide open in hope that eventually a new model will emerge, improving our lot to the embarrassment of you with your tail between your legs, claiming sage wisdom that is nothing but a veiled admission of intellectual cowardice. Probably a few snippy Dennis Miller quotes coming to your mind there, eh? I can just hear you now, the oily word "liberal" slipping off your tongue. Too many like you here on Slashdot if you ask me.
(why is it that) the sons and daughters of democratic countries have their sympathies with the treatment of mostly terrorist assholes
The USA is a lot better than many of the nasty totalitarian dictatorships round the world: there are too many, and they commit terrible abuses. But a lot of people outside the USA get quite fed up with the holier-than-thou rhetoric that sometimes issues from your fine country. Some of the claims made about how you value high moral standards are transparently at odds with activities that we see your authorities undertaking. Your country engages in activities that others find morally dubious. You form alliances with countries with terrible human rights records and then tell us in some cases that these countries are wonderful examples of democracy and respecters of human rights.
It's the hypocrisy that gets a lot of people. You are a great nation and deep in their hearts a lot of people are grateful that it's your country that is the world's single superpower, and many people are aware that it is because of your relatively high standards of openness and press freedom that we get to hear about the negative aspects of your country.
But negative aspects there are, and I think you'd win more praise by addressing faults, and admitting problems, and seeking to improve aspects of your system, rather than claiming the moral high ground when quite clearly in some cases you don't have it.
Really, referring to people locked up in Guantanamo Bay as "mostly terrorist assholes" when you or I don't know, and can't know, because these people are denied access to the Red Cross, or independent legal support, doesn't help your argument.
here..so people know what it's about. Keep in mind this video presentation is a controlled environment where the simulated interrogation victim knows full well he can stop it at any time (unlike a real interrogation environment). Seems as awful as drowning - if not worse.
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there you will find chinese who believe china can do no wrong
go to new delhi, there you will find indians who believe india can do no wrong
go to jakarta, there you will find indonesians who think indonesia can do no wrong
etc., etc.
why do you think the usa should be singled out for a crime every country in the world is guilty of?
in other words, what you wrote above about the usa is 100% true... and every country in the world thinks sunlight comes out of it's asshole too. you want to prosecute the usa especially for a crime all countries of the world partake in: arrogant blind self-centered nationalism
why is your disillusionment with the existence of the usa's nationalism such a shock to you?
unless you actually swallowed that bs for some time before?
the the usa should suffer because you believed something about the usa no one should have believed in the first place?
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
yet another naive idealist, building castles in the sky about the shape of human societies, without the slightest understanding of actual human nature
dude, there's been a million like you before, and a million more will come after, and you're all the same: fueled by an earnest naivete whose fatal flaw is a lack of understanding of the good, the bad, and the ugly of essential human nature, of whatever society, of whatever time period
there's nothing wrong with idealism. but there's everything wrong with your particular brand if idealism: built upon a bad foundation. that bad foundation is a poor understanding of the human beings around you, who supposedly would someday inhabit your wonderful fantasies of perfect societies. but those perfect societies you dream about will never, ever exist, simply because such societies have to be made of real breathing human beings. real human beings who behave in ways which render your fantasies impossible
in other words, whatever society you imagine that is so ideal, is impossible. strictly because your enemy is not the social injustice of classism, or whatever bogeyman you've decided to label as the source of the evils that rot society, your enemy is the simple human beings around you, as humanity simply is. you need to look more closely at essential human behavior, as it exists outside all cultures, all classes, all sexes, all races, all time periods
in that compositie human, you will find the defeat of your high minded utopianism. not in the robber baron classes of the modern west. you've conveniently labeled them as the source of that which bedevils social justice today, but they're not the source
but keep at it, child. you have the earnestness of a teenager who has a lot of philosophy books under his belt, but no real world experience. you'll get that real world experience someday, and then you'll know what i'm talking about
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
You can see him singing it a capella in this video.
You must be new here.
Replace "German" with "Canadian" and you get another example of the US handing over a non-american to a 3rd country to be tortured: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maher_Arar
How was this story not tagged with 'slownewsday'
Sorry, but Cuba isn't anywhere near a "totalitarian country". Lessee, the pre-revolution Romania *was*. On the other hand, Cuba has, I believe, a 95% literacy rate (the US is *way* down from there); has a real national healtchcare system, and exports doctors, as opposed to the US, with between 15% and 20% with *no* healthcare, etc, etc.
.sig:
But, of course, those who've been posting more than half the responses to this story a) didn't read the translation of Guantanemaro; b) believe that everyone in Gitmo (gee, the US is holding onto Cuban territory - how 'bout giving Casto Miami?) is an Evil, High-Level terrorist (and not a single one of you little shits believes in the US Constitution (i.e, no "cruel and unusual punishment" - I suggest you get yourselves thrown into jail for a few weeks, or months, or years, and see how you feel about it); those that are old enough probably, during the Clinton administration, said all kinds of bullshit about it being "good" to have a divided gov't, with a Dem administration, and a Republican Congress, but now want a one-party state, all Republican, and the over 50% of Americans who disagree should have *your* neofascist, sorry, 'neocon', fundamentalist Christian agenda down our throats.
Thanks, Richard.
mark
ObDisclaimer: yes, I *am* married to a convicted terrorist....
carefully chosen
Libertarian IT workers who watch their jobs go overseas should derive joy from geographic shifts in employment. Their "dog eat dog" creed requires them to be happy whenever the marketplace finds a way to pay workers less and increase business owners' profits. - Roblimo Miller, NewsForge.com
You know, I'm not seeing many comments about free software here.....
And I know the story's not about that, but Stallman is undeniably a leader in the Free Software movement. This action DOESN'T HELP FREE SOFTWARE AT ALL!! Critics of Stallman call him a Communist and tar and feather him whit that label, and hell maybe he is. But the problem is that there are people like me out there that wholeheartedly support the Free Software movement, but loathe Communism. People like me know that Stallman can be a quite out there on stuff, but agree with him on many of his principles, but this kind of stuff just gives a boatload of ammo to his critics in the "Licensed Software" movement.
RMS should choose where he wants to be on this and pick his steps more carefully. Some of his supporters in software don't see eye to eye with him on this one.... And I know HE doesn't care, but the next time someone talks about Free Software with their PHB they might have to refute the line, isn't that stuff advocated by commies like RMS. He sure made the job of advocating Free Software a bit harder, but I guess he does that quite a bit. It just gets a little frustrating.
Pigfucking closeminded so called thinkers, who deride everyone that has a twinge of ideology
Hey, now! As a pigfucker, I resent being linked to close-minded assholes like the OP. I feel you have to be pretty open-minded to consider taking up a hobby like pigfucking. It's certainly not a popular pastime, though at least it gets you some exercise out in the fresh air.
Now excuse me, Miss Piggy's wigglin' her butt again.
Why is it always the people who have never lived under a dictatorship are the first to call the US one?
Go live in Cuba for a while (not just visit) and write a report. And not as Castro's ass-buddy either.
We should be multiplying by the signum function and averaging that... /g[k]
g[k] = f[k] * sgn(f[k])
|/f[k]| =
RMS is just silly.
It would be easier to compute in a 2s compliment system too, eh?
Habeus corpus, lack thereof.
...hey, nobody ever pointed out B&Massa's 3 Da Skips or Jiguma's Guantanamo Vacation, did they? And that was when something could be done to free David Hicks (for instance) before he pleaded guilty in the kangaroo court the land of the free trumped him in. Fighting for freedom by denying people the rights of liberty is like, well... good luck getting the virginity back, Debbie of Dallas
"I hope you like Guinness, Sir. I find it a refreshing substitute for, er... food." Col. Jack O'Neil, SG-1
People used to be all 'liberty or death', but it turned out to be such a hassle.
Apparently the Left would have us treat Al Qaeda better, as opposed to worse, than combatants living up to Geneva. Talk about assbackwards thinking!
Slashdot "libertarians": Small government for me, big government for those I disagree with. -1, I disagree with you