All Things iPhone

With the iPhone release coming soon there is no shortage of stories being submitted. Here is an overview of all of its features and specifics on its technical workings. A list of applications is out and still growing. There are warnings however that some applications and peripherals won't be ready or compatible in time for the release. Finally with all the hype associated with the iPhone, we have a reminder of some previous Apple products that ended with a whimper instead of a roar.

Comments

I'm buying.. Friday.

[adam]

It seems TFS has now been corrected from the mysterious future, but I took the time to compose my oh-so-informative post, so I'm going forward anyway, haha. Unless Samzenpus is in Australia (where it wouldn't be night right now), it's still the 27th, which is the night before the night before the iPhone is released. That extra "night before" missing from TFS might seem inconsequential, but remember kids-- if you're buying an iPhone, don't get off work early [thurs] TOMORROW night, get off work early on Friday June 29 to get in line in time.

I'm going to send one of our employees to get in line (for myself and three others) around noon, heh. Sure, I wish it had GPS and 3G, but since I'm coming from a BB8700, which doesn't have GPS (nor 3G), nor did my Treo before that, I'll live. And so far I'm encouraged by the reviews from Pogue and Mossberg (etc) discussed here yesterday. I've been closely watching engadget (etc), and believe the reviews to confirm that many of those sites (such as engadget) spreading negative rumors like "two thumb touchscreen typing was impossible to do, and our anonymous source gave up after a day or two" are really just sensational speculation for driving viewers to the site. It seems the screen takes some getting used to, but not nearly on the level that some "anonymous sources" have characterized. I'm also a bit disappointed in the family pricing.. it's not considerably cheaper for my own phone + my partner's on the same plan, versus individual plans. If they had made corporate/family pricing a little more attractive, I'd be inclined to buy some for our employees. The paltry 200 txt msgs standard to each plan is also annoying (so now I'll have to drop $10 or $20 per phone for extra). But even still, I'm firmly in the demographic that is willing to pay extra for the phone, the service, just for the UI (and non-crashyness) that Apple will bring to the table. This will hopefully have a very nice positive net effect-- I suspect most iPhone users will be very happy, and all other companies will now be pushed to improve their products or lose customers.

Re:I'm buying.. Friday.

[Anonymous Coward]

"I'm going to send one of our employees to get in line (for myself and three others) around noon"

There's a one-per-person limit for purchasing the iPhone on Friday. Unless you mean that you're going to show up later with three other people and cut in line, in which case can you video tape it so I can laugh at you getting punched in the face?

Re:I'm buying.. Friday.

[Oscar_Wilde]

Samzenpus is in Australia (where it wouldn't be night right now), it's still the 27th, which is the night before the night before the iPhone is released. That extra "night before" missing from TFS might seem inconsequential, but remember kids-- if you're buying an iPhone, don't get off work early [thurs] TOMORROW night, get off work early on Friday June 29 to get in line in time.
 
... I am in Australia. Hello from the future. Tomorrow is Friday but the iPhone wont be out until the end of next year in the land of the antipodeans.
 
Erm, I think I'm supposed to put a "you insensitive clod" in there someplace...

Re:I'm buying.. Friday.

[Oscar_Wilde]

it's OK if your mother didn't love you. serriously though, laughing at someone with an iPhone in the next few days will be a sure way to show how much of an unwanted geek _you_ are

Re:I'm buying.. Friday.

[Anonymous Coward]

adam exposes Apple's fatal flaw with the iPhone.

There are plenty of dumb people in the world.
There are plenty of rich people in the world.

But there simply aren't enough people like adam who are both dumb enough to fall for the iPhone hype AND have the means to actually waste so much money on one.

Re:I'm buying.. Friday.

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, scary, a line full of Emo Retards.

Punched? I don't think so. More like some slapping and maybe even some hair pulling...

Re:I'm buying.. Friday.

[itwerx]

The paltry 200 txt msgs standard to each plan is also annoying (so now I'll have to drop $10 or $20 per phone for extra). But even still, I'm firmly in the demographic that is willing to pay extra for the phone, the service, just for the UI (and non-crashyness) that Apple will bring to the table.

As something of an Apple fanboi myself, I'm actually going to wait awhile, maybe a really long while, for the simple reason that the data rate with EDGE absolutely sucks and Cingular's signal coverage is pitiful. I love the UI, I've been drooling over this thing since I first heard about it, but I'm not about to drop $500 on a phone I can't actually use productively in the real world. It's almost painful to watch this unfold; I so wish Apple had gone with Sprint or Verizon or almost anybody except Cingular (well, okay, T-Mobile would have been worse). And with a 5-year exclusivity no less!?! Egads, wtf is the Jobster smoking?

Re:I'm buying.. Friday.

[westyx]

I'm going to send one of our employees to get in line (for myself and three others) around noon, heh. One iphone per customer, natch.

Re:I'm buying.. Friday.

[Achromatic1978]

I'm going to send one of our employees to get in line (for myself and three others) around noon, heh.

Good luck, "one per person".

I'm also a bit disappointed in the family pricing.. it's not considerably cheaper for my own phone + my partner's on the same plan, versus individual plans.

You're surprised? They're happy to jack you higher than normal plans for the privilege of getting it in the first place, why would they stop if you're already showing you'll happily take that?

the service

What service? Cingular? It's better than T-mobile, in general, though specific location makes a difference. Apple customer service? Alternately polarizing - on one hand they can be great, replacing items with new things at the drop of a hat, and on the other they'll actively cover up and deny known, confirmed widespread problems.

just for the UI (and non-crashyness)

UI? Not bad. Definitely extremely promising. Non crashiness? You know this, uh, how? As an aside, I can't remember the last time I needed to yank the battery on a Nokia running Symbian apps from all over the place (and literally, cannot remember, many years).

Re:I'm buying.. Friday.

[negative3]

Don't forget that there is no SIM card in the iphone, so you can't grab an older GSM phone in a pinch if your iphone breaks...and this means there's no way you can ever switch providers...and international roaming will be problematic if you're in a place where AT&T doesn't have roaming agreements.

Don't get me wrong, the phone seems cool, but the whole tetheering of the phone to AT&T's service is pretty much contrary to the whole concept of GSM systems.

Re:I'm buying.. Friday.

[Neko-kun]

I'm sorry, but that's hearsay...

The iPhone is a GSM phone meaning it has a SIM in it and in one way or another will be accessible. At least if this thread is be belived.

The only thing that MIGHT surprise me is if the SIM card is different, but then again, wouldn't we have heard about a different SIM chip specification by now?

Re:I'm buying.. Friday.

[Anonymous Coward]

They'll probably be too busy crying and writing in their diary (it's the only one who understands them, after all) to much slapping or hair pulling.

Re:I'm buying.. Friday.

[G-funk]

The *end* of next year? Fuck.... The N95 gets better and better every day.

Re:I'm buying.. Friday.

[Oscar_Wilde]

Well, everyone is saying it'll be in 2008 but given how small the Australian market is and the kind of behaviour our phone companies display it'll probably be later rather than sooner.

I fully expect that it will better to buy an unlocked iPhone from overseas and live without the network specific features such as voice mail. When an Australian carrier does get on board I'll decide if it's worth switching network.

Re:I'm buying.. Friday.

[Baricom]

Some of the iPhone's features (such as visual voicemail) require fairly significant architectural changes at the carrier, so whatever carrier Apple went with would have some hefty demands to ensure the investment paid off. I'm sure the 5-year deal was one of AT&T's terms.

Keep in mind that Apple did approach Verizon first; Verizon turned it down.

Re:I'm buying.. Friday.

[shmlco]

Rumor also has it that they're going to pass out numbered armbands as the line builds. So the "friend" standing in line will only get one band, hence one number, hence cutting in won't be possible... nor, as you suggest, smart.

Re:I'm buying.. Friday.

[LKM]

As an aside, I can't remember the last time I needed to yank the battery on a Nokia running Symbian apps from all over the place (and literally, cannot remember, many years).

So it has a Reset button now?

Re:I'm buying.. Friday.

[dwater]

> The N95 gets better and better every day.

Indeed. The n95 is out here in China too, which is *not* a small market at all. However, the n95 is still selling for close to (or over) $1000, so it's out of my reach. On the other hand, I suspect the iPhone will need some changes to work for the Chinese...I really can't imagine it working at all for entering Chinese, but perhaps it will.

Re:I'm buying.. Friday.

[cayenne8]

"But there simply aren't enough people like adam who are both dumb enough to fall for the iPhone hype AND have the means to actually waste so much money on one."

In this day in age...having enough discrecionary spending to be able to easily drop $500-$600 now and then for a new toy does not make you rich. There are plenty of people out there with extra money to spend, and that like interesting gadgets.

If you are a broke college student, then Apple probably isn't marketing this towards you. Although it *might* give you some extra incentive to work to bring those grades up, so you can get a job later and have some 'fun money' in your budget too.

Re:I'm buying.. Friday.

[kannibal_klown]

Actually, on the list of specs I've seen, the iPhone has a SIM card tray. So assuming they didn't weld the thing shut you could take the iPhone SIM out.

However it will be SIM locked so you can't use non-Cingular SIMs in it.

Then again, this is what I've been reading. So until tomorrow I guess take it with a grain of salt.

Re:I'm buying.. Friday.

[Plutonite]

Before you buy, do you know that you can't copy-paste text? I love gadgets, but this is really an insult.

Re:I'm buying.. Friday.

[Adam Hazzlebank]

I'm going to send one of our employees to get in line (for myself and three others) 2 per person limit: http://www.engadget.com/2007/06/28/apple-lays-down -iphone-purchase-rules-for-tomorrow/

Re:I'm buying.. Friday.

[Anonymous Coward]

No it doesn't - I take it you haven't used one?

Re:I'm buying.. Friday.

[negative3]

From "Walt Mossberg Reviews the iPhone":

But the iPhone has a major drawback: the cellphone network it uses. It only works with AT&T (formerly Cingular), won't come in models that use Verizon or Sprint and can't use the digital cards (called SIM cards) that would allow it to run on T-Mobile's network. So, the phone can be a poor choice unless you are in areas where AT&T's coverage is good. It does work overseas, but only via an AT&T roaming plan.
Thanks for pointing out that I was wrong (i'm not being sarcastic). From the earlier posted article that reviewed the iPhone, I took the above quote to mean that they didn't include a SIM card at all, which I completely didn't like. I'm actually pretty glad I'm wrong on this one - there will undoubtedly be some way to undo the SIM-lock in the future. Hopefully they'll start selling them in Europe at some point, where if I'm not mistaken it is actually against the law in certain countries to SIM-lock phones.

Re:I'm buying.. Friday.

[illumin8]

It's almost painful to watch this unfold; I so wish Apple had gone with Sprint or Verizon or almost anybody except Cingular (well, okay, T-Mobile would have been worse).

It's not as bad as you think. I have a Treo 650 GSM, which used to be on T-Mobile, where I only got about 40kbps downstream according to mobile speed tests. I went to the Cingular store, popped in a SIM card to see how fast it was, and ran the same speed test and got 160kbps downstream. Since then I switched to Cingular, and in my area (Connecticut), I can consistently get good download speeds; better than ISDN quality. In fact, it's good enough to stream 128kbps MP3 from Internet radio stations. Isn't this fast enough for when you're out of Wifi coverage? Oh, and I don't know why so many people are knocking Cingular's network. Here in the northeast, Cingular seems to get better coverage than Verizon, Sprint, and T-Mobile. I'm sure there are parts of the country where their coverage does suck, but I think the combined Orange (Cingular) and Blue (AT&T) towers offers the widest coverage of any cell carrier in this country.

Re:I'm buying.. Friday.

[jaredcat]

IMAMA (I am a mobility analyst), so here is my 2 cents on AT&T's pokey network:

My theory is that AT&T will take a "wait and see" approach to the iPhone with regards to their data network. If demand is really as strong as everyone seems to think it will be, AT&T can use this as justification to their shareholders to actually build out a modern 3G network for iPhone 2.0.

As it stands right now, AT&T is #3 for enterprise and government "national" accounts. These are the accounts that individually have 20,000+ blackberries and 10,000+ aircards all with unlimited data plans. These are the real heavy data users that make it worthwhile to invest in this network infrastructure. For now, with AT&T's current customer-base of mostly small direct-to-end-user retail accounts shopping for family minute plans and SMS packages, there isn't a push for 3G at all.

So I'm sure someone is thinking, why doesn't AT&T build the network now so people can flock to them? "If you build it, they will come" is a very high risk model. Take a look at the last big network improvement that AT&T (well Cingular at the time...) made; They launched push-to-talk 2 years back. This was a major undertaking with huge capital costs. It seemed like a good idea at the time. After all, there sure are a lot of Nextel users who only use that godforsaken iDEN system because of PTT, right? AT&T's implementation of PTT is much better than the Nextel one too. For instance, you can see if your friends are "online" or not. PTT messages are unlimited and unmetered. Sounds great? Well they built it, and no one came. I can't remember EVER seeing someone use AT&T PTT outside of a AT&T in-store demo.

Now if the iPhone turns out to be a runaway success, and the only detractor a year from now is something like "they sold 10 million iPhones, but that network is soooo slow", then AT&T will finally make the investment. After all, they do have a 5-year exclusive contract with Apple, so Apple isn't going to any other carriers.

Re:I'm buying.. Friday.

[walter_f]

Keep in mind that Apple did approach Verizon first; Verizon turned it down.

I've seen a Verizon executive quoted saying that Apple wanted their share of the monthly revenues which Verizon denied.

So one may speculate whether AT&T/Cingular have been more "co-operative" in their negotiations with Apple or not...

Walter.

Re:I'm buying.. Friday.

[MrNonchalant]

I'm going to send one of our employees to get in line (for myself and three others) around noon

Apple stores are limiting sales to two per customer, AT&T to one per customer. - source

Re:I'm buying.. Friday.

[inKubus]

Egads, wtf is the Jobster smoking?

Whatever it is, I bet he knows how to smoke it out of an Apple.

Teh heh

Re:I'm buying.. Friday.

[wealthychef]

Actually, it's a two-per-person limit, I believe

You ain't just whistlin' dixie...

[Ub3rT3Rr0R1St]

With the iPhone release coming soon there is no shortage of stories being submitted. No shortage?! That's a gross understatement. I think I have just been convinced by this latest iPhone plug that things are going overboard.

We know the features, we know the controversy, we know EVERYTHING.

Just let the damn thing come. This is more than gratuitous splurge on a product. It's downright unnecessary.
I'm looking forward to this thing as much as the next guy, but come on, enough with the iPhone articles. It's getting redundant.

Slashdot Giving Up All Pretenses

[Anonymous Coward]

I guess Slashdot has given up any effort to hide the fact that the site has transformed into nothing more than a marketing blog for companies like Apple to whore their products.

Re:Will it

[Titoxd]

No, but if you put a MacBook over your crotch, that will cook your eggs.

All I want to know about the iPhone....

[Lumpy]

Will it blend?

let's find out here

I cant WAIT for them to destroy an iPhone.

Re:All I want to know about the iPhone....

[Anonymous Coward]

I hope they are using a good industrial blender.

A friend of mine once made a drunken bet with the barman at our local cafe about whether or not his mobile phone would successfully blend. He didn't think it would...

He was wrong.

Re:All I want to know about the iPhone....

[Kalriath]

WillItBlend is a site run by a blender company, Blendtec. They have successfully blended some iPods in their blender (they always use the same one, and it's actually just a consumer grade one) before.

Oh, and because mentioning blending iPods in a blender WILL get you -10,000,000 Overrated (to dodge metamoderation!) here on Slashdot, they HAVE also blended Windows CDs. They make a really cool sparkly powder (over-expensive glitter?), though I still think microwaving CDs is way cooler.

Re:All I want to know about the iPhone....

[GiMP]

One of the local coffee shops here have a BlendTec. I always imagine putting some cans of coke, lightbulbs, cell phones, etc.. in there.

Re:All I want to know about the iPhone....

[Anonymous Coward]

So, sign up to donate your iPhone to be blended already! :)

Re:All I want to know about the iPhone....

[Anonymous Coward]

You need a bigger imagination.

windows!

[martin_henry]

A list of applications is out and still growing. There are warnings however that some applications and peripherals won't be ready or compatible in time for the release. remind you of any major OS's?

Re:windows!

[VGPowerlord]

Yes, but I thought this was an Apple article, not a Linux one. ;)

(yes, I know you were talking about Windows, but the opportunity was just... there.)

Enough is Enough

[kaos07]

I think I speak for a lot of people of when I say that we're sick of hearing about the bloody iPhone. Who cares if it's super-dooper good, it's just another phone.

Re:Enough is Enough

[Anonymous Coward]

You know? after all these commercials I think I'm now getting one...

Meeeh, just kidding. Slashdot... please... make them stop! Please!

Now for some reason there is an "Apple" section in slashdot, but not an ATI/AMD or an IBM one. Is slashdot funded by Apple for real?

Re:Enough is Enough

[Yahweh Doesn't Exist]

so is slashdot going the way of digg in that every thread will soon be filled with self-obsessed retards proclaiming their lack on interest in the thread topic?

a major tech company has just released a brand new product line in a new market for them. and their product also builds on the most popular portable music player in the history of the world. if you don't think this deserves some slashdot bandwidth then you're just plain wrong.

Re:Enough is Enough

[kaos07]

I'm not saying it doesn't deserve ANY slashdot 'bandwidth' at all. I'm merely stating that there's been almost a dozen articles in the past few weeks basically saying the same thing. Time to give it a rest.

Shlashdot's free pub

[cuby]

I'm starting to be a little tired of so many articles (free pub) about the iPhone... It seems it's going cure even global warming!
Someone remembering all the pre-noise about PS3 and the reality after Nintendo kicked it's ass?

Re:Shlashdot's free pub

[martin_henry]

It seems it's going cure even global warming! if that were the case, I still wouldn't buy one (or be able to afford one).

Re:Shlashdot's free pub

[Anonymous Coward]

Most the noise about the PS3 (on /. anyways) was that it was going to be a really cool and powerfull, but it wasn't going to do well (at least immediately) in the market because of it's relatively late release, high price point, and lack of exclusives.... That still seems to be the opinion of the PS3.

On the other hand, their already are reviews of people using the iPhone "in the field" and it's getting the reaction everyone expected. That it is cool, and is pushing the mobile market in a positive direction. But it's pricey, and might be too incompatible for initial widespread adoption (ie M$ exchange, current providers, etc...)

Let's see if the general consensus gets it right again. Don't let me down ./ !!!!

Re:Shlashdot's free pub

[Anonymous Coward]

It seems it's going cure even global warming!

Yes, of course it will. It combines 3 products in one! That means there will be less consumer devices, which means the heat emmitted from those devices decreases. Furthermore, there will be less toxic because of the lesser number of batteries. Praise Jesus!

Then you get a Google Map on the sweet thing and that can give you directions plus traffic reports; thus, you drive a shorter distance to your destination and idle less in traffic. You know what that means? Less burning fossil fuel. Can you say Hallelujah?

You also get YouTube on iPhone and if you are smart, you can educate yourself by watching YouTube's education channels. This thing will help scientists cure AIDS and cancers, too!

Have I mentioned what other world problems the web browser can help solve? It can ... Ah, forget it. Nevermind all that stuff. This thing is going to help me get laid. You've got a problem with that?

Re:Shlashdot's free pub

[Anonymous Coward]

It seems it's going cure even global warming!

Ever heard of the iPhone's mystery app?



I know, I know... it was revealed later to be a custom YouTube player

Re:Shlashdot's free pub

[cowscows]

Yeah, and after Nintendo showed what the Wii was all about, the bulk of the publicity went to them. What's your point?

If you're tired of the articles, then stop reading them. Obviously a bunch of people want to talk about the iphone, or else they wouldn't be doing it.

Re:Shlashdot's free pub

[cuby]

Hello.
Thanks for your reply.
My point is that a lot of threads (like the iPhone subjects) in Slashdot lack a sense of scientific analysis. There are a lot of engineers here and I don't like when the subjects are overwhelmed by emotional fanboys. Moreover, a lot of subjects are neglected because of gadgets of some company. IMHO the only breakthrough of the iPhone is the massive free pub that is getting. The market is full of phones (maybe not so visually appealing)... this is another one, not a cultural breakthrough like the iPod.

Re:Shlashdot's free pub

[cowscows]

It's hard to say what sort of effect the iphone will have on the phone industry, seeing as it still hasn't quite yet been released. The only "scientific analysis" that anyone can have given the iPhone so far is based on pictures, movies, and bullet point lists, which sort of misses the point as far as Apple's design intentions are concerned. I think people who are interested in this sort of stuff should be excited, Apple has as good a track record as anyone for taking an idea(product) and really making it better. I will certainly agree that there are fanboys going nuts and that that is silly, but that's just part of the internet.

The iPhone won't be an exact repeat of the iPod, simply because the iPod has already happened. Apple sort of came out of nowhere with the iPod as far as most of the world is concerned. mp3 players weren't on everyone's radar yet, and neither was Apple. Phones are already ubiquitous, so I think you're right in that the iPhone won't be a cultural breakthrough in the sense that it's going to really kick-start something as broad based as the digital-music industry. But it looks like it will be a significant breakthrough in phone interfaces. Which is kind of less exciting in one sense, but actually very appealing in another, because it could cause some positive changes in something (mobile phones) that just about everyone uses.

Re:You ain't just whistlin' dixie...

[Aminion]

Yeah, save some iPhone for the dupes! WON'T SOMEONE THINK OF THE DUPES!!!

Lameness filter encountered. Post aborted! Reason: Don't use so many caps. It's like YELLING.

PLEASE MAKE THE IPHONE STORIES STOP

[pyite69]

I would rather shove a splintered 2x4 up my ass than keep seeing these silly stories.

Re:PLEASE MAKE THE IPHONE STORIES STOP

[ase]

That can be arranged...

Re:PLEASE MAKE THE IPHONE STORIES STOP

[larry bagina]

I would rather shove a splintered 2x4 up my ass than keep seeing these silly stories.

goatse much?

Re:PLEASE MAKE THE IPHONE STORIES STOP

[Anonymous Coward]

Looking for any excuse again for your kinky sex practices, aren't you.

Re:PLEASE MAKE THE IPHONE STORIES STOP

[Anonymous Coward]

Fag.

what was i thinking

[gollum123]

That i would get through the day without seeing a story about the iPhone on slashdot. I hope god forgives me for my blasphemous thoughts.

Re:Will it

[ruiner13]

No, but the video link that is up on CNN/Money right now is speculating that it might land you a date.

As an Apple fan, even I am finding the level of coverage of this thing to be ridiculous. There are no less than 5 headlines about the iPhone on that page alone. The #*$(# thing isn't even out yet! For this much hype, you'd think it came with 3 5-star hookers and a brick of cocaine straight from colombia.

products did not end with a whimper

[nuckin futs]

The itunes phone was not their work. It was motorola's. You could tell because Steve Jobs spent 2 seconds introducing it, and that's it. he didn't sell it like all the other Apple products he introduces.
The Newton is still being used by some, and is more powerful than some PDAs on the market right now.
The original iMac...they sold millions of units and brought Apple back from the dead.
The cube was just overpriced, but it was well designed, and it's a collector's item now.

Re:products did not end with a whimper

[nuckin futs]

the itunes phone was as much apple as it was motorola. it is called THE itunes phone after all, stop making excuses for them and trying to scape goat using motorola.
It was called the itunes phone so motorola could sell more of the stuff. if they tied it with the itunes brand, they figured it will sell like hotcakes.

the newton was shit, face it. please name the pda's it's more powerful than now? i'd love to hear you explain that one.
have you gone to a Staples store and look at some of the cheap PDAs there? I'm talking about the glorified electronic address books with some other functions built in with it. It's marketed as a PDA.

the original imac's where horrible pieces of junk, it wasn't until they got past version 4 that they improved
Junk or not (personal opinions aside), it still sold millions. I don't think that is considered going out with a whimper.

Re:products did not end with a whimper

[networkzombie]

The Newton is still being used? I have one. Every time I pull the string I hear "The cow says."

Re:products did not end with a whimper

[nuckin futs]

all jokes aside, check this out: ;-)
http://www.newted.org/

Re:products did not end with a whimper

[porcupine8]

I remember when the ROKR came out, everyone was saying immediately that not only would it be a flop, but that Apple had put little effort into it because they wanted it to be a flop. Because then, they would be justified when they say "See? The cel phone guys can't do this right, we obviously have to make one ourselves."

And now it seems they were possibly right... So even if it was a flop, it's not clear that that wasn't exactly what Apple wanted.

Re:products did not end with a whimper

[Whiney Mac Fanboy]

The Newton is still being used by some, and is more powerful than some PDAs on the market right now.

While the above statement is true, it in no way invalidates the fact that the newton was a flop.

Re:products did not end with a whimper

[Anonymous Coward]

The cube was just overpriced, but it was well designed, and it's a collector's item now.

Agreed on everything except this... the cube does look nice, but it has (had?) a couple design problems I'd heard about. And no, don't have the proof handy, sorry.
- Stress cracks develop in the casing
- Power button overly-sensitive; real easy to put it to sleep accidentally
I never owned one myself, so it's all hearsay for me. But being that slick design seemed to be the sole goal for this machine, it wouldn't surprise me if it had internal failings as a computer. Still, it would be neat to see a revamped core2 model.

Re:products did not end with a whimper

[networkzombie]

I was serious when I said I own a Newton. I stick by my original post. I simply cannot understand how anyone could possibly find it useful. I've tried to use it. I think it is crap. That web site seems to be filled with Apple fanatics trying to justify ownership. Have you ever heard the term Cult? Oh, shit! I forgot I'm posting about an Apple product. Sorry. My bad.

Re:products did not end with a whimper

[Achromatic1978]

The Newton is still being used by some, and is more powerful than some PDAs on the market right now.

It's what? More powerful? The thing came out with a 20MHz ARM processor. My four year old PDA has a 200+MHz ARM processor. It came with a 4MB ROM, same PDA I have came with 64MB ROM. It came with 640KB RAM, this one came with 64MB RAM.

Remind me again, "more powerful"?

Re:products did not end with a whimper

[Achromatic1978]

Staples store and look at some of the cheap PDAs there? I'm talking about the glorified electronic address books with some other functions built in with it. It's marketed as a PDA.

Staples selling a glorified calculator for $9.99 as a "PDA" with 32kb of RAM neither makes it a PDA by any common sense definition, nor I wager would any number of laypeople confuse it with a Palm Pilot, iPaq, etc.

Re:products did not end with a whimper

[dfghjk]

Don't forget the monochrome screen and only RS-232 for communications.

Apple people will say anything rather than admit that Apple fucks up on occasion.

Re:products did not end with a whimper

[dfghjk]

Always an excuse, eh? How do you know the itunes phone wasn't Apple's work? Because other fanboys say so?

If my company produced an obvious failure and I was obligated to ship it anyway, I'd probably avoid spending time on it as well. That means nothing.

The Newton was a laughingstock even as it was still being sold.

The Cube had cosmetic issues regarding crazing of it's clear plastic housing. While it's generally excepted that Apple gets a pass for such quality problems, that's certainly evidence that it wasn't "well designed".

The Edsel is also a collector's item but it was an enormous failure as a product.

Loved your revisionist history though.

Re:products did not end with a whimper

[NMerriam]

It's what? More powerful? The thing came out with a 20MHz ARM processor. My four year old PDA has a 200+MHz ARM processor. It came with a 4MB ROM, same PDA I have came with 64MB ROM. It came with 640KB RAM, this one came with 64MB RAM.

Remind me again, "more powerful"?

There is a big difference between tech specs and actual power/utility. Sure, it's low-end hardware, but that low-end hardware does handwriting recognition and some natural language parsing -- software features that no PDA since has done anywhere near as well.

Re:products did not end with a whimper

[PixelScuba]

Eat up Martha.

Re:products did not end with a whimper

[Achromatic1978]

but that low-end hardware does handwriting recognition and some natural language parsing -- software features that no PDA since has done anywhere near as well

You've not seen Windows Mobile 6, then. That thing seems to handle around 95%+ of my handwriting with ease, almost as much as the handwriting recognition in XP Tablet. (But I've gotta be crazy to say something like that in a story that already has Apple fanboys practically orgasmic.)

Re:products did not end with a whimper

[mgabrys_sf]

cube well designed?

Sure if you ignore the fact that all those cool photos removed the rats-nest of wires coming out of the bottom like calamari legs.

Why hide the wires under my desk - when they can sit right under the unit for all the world to see and admire. Spiiiify!

Re:products did not end with a whimper

[nuckin futs]

Staples selling a glorified calculator for $9.99 as a "PDA" with 32kb of RAM neither makes it a PDA by any common sense definition
but it does what a "PDA" is supposed to do, except today's pocket PC/palmtop just added more functionality.

(Personal Digital Assistant) A handheld computer for managing contacts, appointments and tasks. It typically includes a name and address database, calendar, to-do list and note taker, which are the functions in a personal information manager (see PIM).

Re:products did not end with a whimper

[CheeseTroll]

The cube was well designed? Tell that to the users who tried setting a folder or book on top of the thing, only to have it shut down due to overheating. I especially loved the one that would shut down every time someone touched it.

But I agree with your other points. And didn't Apple create Graffiti, the handwriting recognition used by Palm?

Re:products did not end with a whimper

[Achromatic1978]

Right, and the Newton did quite a bit more than that too, so would be an unfair comparison against those $9.99 PDAs, of the day, or of now. But to say its a comparable PDA to a PDA that does more than "just contacts" today is really grasping at straws.

Re:products did not end with a whimper

[NMerriam]

That's great -- so 15 years later, on hardware that is orders of magnitude more powerful, someone has been able to match one of the advanced features. I've also seen plenty of modern PDA apps that allow language parsing. All that does is demonstrate the point -- hardware specs do not equate in any direct fashion to actual usable power exposed to the end user.

Just because we had 400Mhz chips and oodles of RAM/ROM available didn't make the devices inherently more usable. 16MB Palm OS devices running at 33Mhz had more usable power than 64MB/400mhz Windows Mobile devices years ago, because the Palm OS and apps were measured in kilobytes and WinCE took 90% of the horsepower just to display the splash screen. Now you can buy Palm systems with gigabytes of storage and yet it's a complete waste because the system itself is so unable to use it in any effective manner.

Hardware specs do not equal power.

Re:products did not end with a whimper

[Watts Martin]

Mocking a PDA that shipped 14 years ago for having a lot of obsolete technology in it strikes me as, to be kind, dubious. The Newton had its share of problems, but people tend to forget that it predates the Palm Pilot by three years. You don't hear much about the Newton's same-era competition these days.

Incidentally, you can use some PCMCIA wi-fi and ethernet cards in a Newton. Done that lately with a 1996 Palm Pilot?

Apple people will say anything rather than admit that Apple fucks up on occasion. Well, anti-Apple people will say anything rather than admit that Apple deserves praise on occasion, so maybe it all evens out in the end.

Re:products did not end with a whimper

[DECS]

The Newton wasn't so much a flop as it was a poorly aimed product that Apple didn't really bother to sell. It started out as a do everything tablet, and then Apple executives crippled it into an oversized handheld so as not to compete against the Mac. Apple then never got around to completing its sync software, and did a crappy job of supporting third party accessories.

As one Newton developer explained:
"Apple's sales expectations were far too high. The Apple II sold 16,000 units the second year it was out and was considered a huge success. The Mac sold 60,000 units its first year and was considered a modest success. The Newton sold over 100,000 units its first year and was a 'flop.'"

When Newton sales did begin to take off, Apple was in such bad shape that it wasn't really in the position to manage it. By then (1997), the cheap Palm was arriving, although Apple had several licensees lined up, including Motorola, who sold it as the wireless Marco. Jobs killed it perhaps because he thought it was a distraction and based on too much experimental technology to be practical. It had no specific purpose; it tried to do everything, and was only fair at all things.

Compare Windows CE, which took off in 1998, and was a bad joke until at least 2002. Since then, it has been a poor product, struggling for applications. It's still embarrassing after a decade of work. Even Microsoft decided to give up on WinCE for use in the Xbox and then Origami. It was never really good at anything apart from being a Palm Pilot replacement. Unfortunately, the Palm pilot didn't need a replacement because nobody wanted PDAs.

Now look at the iPhone: clear purpose as a phone, an iPod, and a web browser. Lots of cool tech, solid sync system already in place and working for the iPod/Apple TV, media ecosystem behind it, incredible brand and marketing, a hugely successful chain of retail stores waiting to pitch it. This quite obviously isn't a Newton.

--

Newton Lessons for Apple's New Platform
Apple is building a new platform, and applying lessons it learned from the 90s, when tried to launch the Newton as a new platform. Like the original Macintosh from a decade prior, the Newton started as one product, and intended to branch out into a range of systems. Here's why it failed and the lessons to be learned.

Apple: iPhone Now Costs Less than Ballmer's Lame Motorola Q
After earlier blowing apart iPhone battery panic with an announcement of 8 hours of talk time, Apple dropped yet another bombshell upon "business as usual" in the mobile market. In addition to simplified calling plans that start well under what had been predicted, the company also unveiled home activation. ...With the new plans announced by Apple and AT&T, that has changed. The minimum plan with unlimited data is $59, or $1416 over two years. That makes the iPhone over a hundred dollars less than Verizon's limp Motorola Q.

Using Apple's iPhone in the Enterprise
The iPhone is quite obviously targeted at consumers. However, it offers a significant leap forward in key features which make it attractive to business customers, particularly executives who like having the best communications tools available.

ZDNet's Mary Jo Foley Says Apple's iPhone Needs ActiveSync
Mary Jo Foley, who describes her ZDNet blog as "an unblinking eye on Microsoft," seems to have been charged with the unpleasant task of producing a somewhat positive sounding iPhone story, and gave it her best shot. Unfortunately, it wasn't very well thought out, and reflects a preoccupation with flattering Microsoft.

Re:products did not end with a whimper

[Whiney Mac Fanboy]

The Newton wasn't so much a flop ....

And then you spend the next three paragaphs explaining why & how the Newton flopped. A poorly aimed product that failed to meet sales expectations until being canned sounds like a flop to me.

Offtopic - I'd consider changing the site you link to. You're probably not aware, but roughly drafted are a bunch of link spammers / poster farmers who were caught trying to game Digg a few months back.

Re:products did not end with a whimper

[duckbillplatypus]

Well only if its a 3 legged calimari. (First Wire) The AC adapter. (Second Wire) The ADC monitor, which gets its dc power through the video card, one less power cord on your desk. This monitor also has a pair of usb ports. (Third Wire) Harman Kardon Speakers. That is 3 wires hanging under the cube and not very rat-nest like. The keyboard daisy chains off the monitor. The mouse daisy chains off the keyboard. The keyboard has 2 usb ports as well. This leaves 1 unused usb on the monitor and 1 unused usb port on the keyboard; you could connect a printer or flash drive here. No need for wired ethernet, you can use an airport card. I would say this is avery clutter free design, as far as wires go. The inside of the cube is very tight, but hidden from view. Overall, the cube worked nicely on my desk. Very small footprint and clutter free. The clear ADC monitor was a definite conversation piece, but I later replaced it with a cinema display. The cinema display also has a pair of USB ports and gets its power thru the video card.

Re:products did not end with a whimper

[Weedlekin]

"The cube was well designed? Tell that to the users who tried setting a folder or book on top of the thing, only to have it shut down due to overheating"

Because normal people always put stuff on top of what are obviously air vents despite warnings in the manual telling them not to, and then wonder why things overheat. I'm not defending Apple or the Cube here, but pictures of its top make me wonder how those "special" enough to put books on it (thus also blocking access to the CD drive) were allowed to have dangerous electrical outlets and cables in their rubber rooms. The positive thing of course is that Apple learned an important lesson about expecting any intellectual capacity whatsoever from consumers, hence the fact that iPods and the iPhone can't easily be opened with tools that are made of rubber, thus preventing special owners from swallowing batteries, putting transparent bits in their eyes, or trying to cram dismounted click-wheels into their belly buttons.

Re:products did not end with a whimper

[DECS]

i guess I'm more concerned with offering accurate information than in sensationalist sound-biting. I don't argue over buzzwords and jingles, I try to present what is.

And yeah whatever -- you know that's my website, you know you are trying to insult me, and you know there was never any Digg thing apart from what you are trying to generate. "Poster farmer"? What a stretch to pull that out your ass. i think you are a big part of what is wrong with the world. A flaccid pile of ignorant crap. I'll simply wipe you off my shoe and keep on going.

Re:products did not end with a whimper

[suv4x4]

Apple had put little effort into it because they wanted it to be a flop. Because then, they would be justified when they say "See? The cel phone guys can't do this right, we obviously have to make one ourselves."

Oh yea, they needed Motorolla to flop so they could be free to make iPhone. Wait, WTF?

Do you even read what you're writing?

Re:products did not end with a whimper

[stewbacca]

Don't forget, AT THE TIME, it was so technically superior to everything else on the market, it wasn't even funny. What made it a "flop" was tacky people who shop at Wal-Mart couldn't afford one. Let's not confuse "good product" with "product that sells well", please.

Re:products did not end with a whimper

[LKM]

I can still freak everyone out by demoing my Newton 2100. Write something, it turns to text. Select it, copy it, paste it somwhere else with gestures. Delete it by scribbling over it. Delete the whole sheet, and it crumbles and goes into a trash can. Create an appointment by writing it in text form and letting Newton figure it out. There's nothing that comes even close to what the Newton does.

Re:products did not end with a whimper

[LKM]

It might have helped them negotiating with AT&T/Cingular. Who knows...

It's obvious that Apple intentionally crippled the Motorola iTunes version (only 200 songs or something, I think). Why they did it, I don't know.

Re:products did not end with a whimper

[LKM]

95%? Sounds worse than the 2100.

Re:products did not end with a whimper

[porcupine8]

Hey, go back and read articles and comments from when ROKR was introduced. That was a very common sentiment, but the other side kept saying "No, Apple will never release their own phone"...

Given everything I've read since the iPhone was announced about the stranglehold providers have on what goes into current phones, etc, it doesn't seem completely impossible that when they went the first round talking to execs they were turned down across the board because the execs would rather stick with companies that normally make phones and phones that work the way phones normally work.

If they didn't want the ROKR to flop, it's hard to explain many of their actions surrounding it.

Re:products did not end with a whimper

[GeckoX]

No, the point was made because someone stated as matter of fact that the newton is still better than pda's that ship today, which is clearly bullshit no matter how you look at it.

Re:products did not end with a whimper

[CheeseTroll]

You're thinking about normal people, but I'm thinking especially of executives and designers (or worse - executive designers!). These people a)would never stoop to read the manual b)don't have time to worry about such technical details as heat dispersion, and c)refuse to accept any limitations whatsoever on where they choose to put their stuff. Sadly, these were the very same people most likely to buy the cube.

Re:products did not end with a whimper

[Weedlekin]

"You're thinking about normal people, but I'm thinking especially of executives and designers (or worse - executive designers!)."

I would have thought that my remarks about "special" people fitted executives and designers rather well, i.e. those who should be kept away from dangerous things such as electrical outlets, cables, and items with sharp edges.

"Sadly, these were the very same people most likely to buy the cube."

And they're also the sort of people who buy iPods, and will likely buy iPhones, hence my remarks about Apple having learned an important lesson with the Cube about designing things for "special" individuals. A sealed unit that's too big to be swallowed easily, and has nice, rounded edges that the special among us can't easily blind, brain, or eviscerate themselves with is a perfect gift for designers, executives, and executive designers everywhere.

Re:products did not end with a whimper

[marsu_k]

Select it, copy it, paste it Which one can't, ironically, do with the iPhone.

Re:products did not end with a whimper

[dfghjk]

"Mocking a PDA that shipped 14 years ago for having a lot of obsolete technology in it strikes me as, to be kind, dubious."

It's not mocking an obsolete device, it's putting proper perspective to a claim that such a device isn't really useful today as fanboys like to say it is. The Newton is no more and no less obsolete than all other devices of its time.

"You don't hear much about the Newton's same-era competition these days."

No, the only claims we here are about the Newton. Funny that the Newton got its ass kicked when it was current, yet now some believe that its better than devices made today.

"Incidentally, you can use some PCMCIA wi-fi and ethernet cards in a Newton. Done that lately with a 1996 Palm Pilot?"

No, but that PCMCIA WiFi card (not PCCard mind you) wouldn't make the Newton any more desirable than the 1996 Palm Pilot. They would both still suck but I could hide the Palm in my pocket to avoid ridicule.

"Well, anti-Apple people will say anything rather than admit that Apple deserves praise on occasion, so maybe it all evens out in the end."

No it doesn't. If there weren't Apple zealots evangelizing through lies there's wouldn't be anyone responding to them. The assumption that everyone that responds to pro-Apple propaganda is anti-Apple is preposterous.

Re:products did not end with a whimper

[dfghjk]

I haven't forgetten that the Newton was too big, too expensive, and worked too poorly to be interesting. The Newton was a failure because it sucked. Apple failed to realize what the form factor and function was that people wanted. That is NOT technical superiority.

"What made it a "flop" was tacky people who shop at Wal-Mart couldn't afford one."

Feeling superior, are you?

"Let's not confuse "good product" with "product that sells well", please."

Why not? Apple people do that ALL the time.

Re:products did not end with a whimper

[nine-times]

What's more, it's clear that Apple has had the iPhone in some level of development (however preliminary) for years. Jobs has said on many occasions, going back to the Newton's introduction, that the problem with PDAs were that the functionality should be built into phones. My guess is that Jobs had been eyeballing the iPod for possible integration into a PDA/Phone device since 2001, but that he didn't want to release an Apple-branded phone until the thing was damn near perfect.

I don't think the iPhone is being released now as some sudden desire to enter the cell phone business. I think Jobs has been planning this for a long time, and it's being released now only because the technology was there. You basically needed good touch-screens, a bright display, small components for cameras, phones, audio processing, and storage. 2 years ago, you wouldn't have been able to sell all these components with 8GB of storage into a case that small for as cheap as $600.

So really, the timing of the iPhone's release seems to be a confluence of events that made it possible to build the product roughly as Jobs envisioned it. Say what you will about Steve Jobs, that he's a egomaniacal asshole or whatever else, but you have to admit at least that he manages to drive Apple towards building good products. Also, he seems to get big companies to agree to deals that they wouldn't normally. First he gets the record labels to sell their products for cheaper than they wanted with less-restrictive DRM than he wanted. Next he gets one of the "big 4" labels to drop DRM. Now he gets at&t to allow virtually unfettered access to the Internet on a phone, as well as encouraging a non-network means of putting data on a phone (including ringtones!). If you don't understand how the iPhone flies in the face of conventional cellphone carrier business practices, then you don't understand the business very well.

So basically, although Apple allowed Motorola to sync with iTunes, the ROKR definitely wasn't what jobs had in mind.

Re:products did not end with a whimper

[prockcore]

The cube was well designed? Tell that to the users who tried setting a folder or book on top of the thing, only to have it shut down due to overheating.

Even better was the fact that it wasn't obvious which way to put in CDs... and it would actually let you put in the CD the wrong way, and get the damn thing stuck.

Re:products did not end with a whimper

[Anonymous Coward]

...but it sure helps a lot!

Longing for the days of the 386, are you?

Re:products did not end with a whimper

[Whiney Mac Fanboy]

you know that's my website,

No, wtf would I associate a slashdot user called DECS with R.D?

"Poster farmer"? What a stretch to pull that out your ass.

Whatever you say AlexW.

Re:products did not end with a whimper

[Watts Martin]

The assumption that everyone that responds to pro-Apple propaganda is anti-Apple is preposterous. The assumption that everyone who says positive things about Apple never admits that Apple makes mistakes is also preposterous. Look, dude, either we're both guilty of gross generalization here, or neither of us are.

If I'm sounding a bit acerbic, it's because over the years I've increasingly noticed that you don't actually have to make silly claims like "the Newton is better than modern PDAs" to have people come out and bash you for being an "Apple zealot." All you have to do is admit that you own a Mac and like it. That is invariably enough reason for people to lecture you about Everything Wrong, So Wrong, About Everything Apple, because apparently the act of owning a Macintosh is seen as a rebuke to those who do not. Maybe you think this says something about the zealotry of Apple owners; I think it says a lot more about the insecurity of people who respond that way to Apple owners.

No, the Newton isn't better than a modern PDA. It's a product of its time, and it was a flawed product in many ways. It was also an advanced product in many ways; someone saying "It was ahead of its time" was essentially met in this thread by "no, it sucked ass." The first statement doesn't require the Newton to have been flawless (or even successful); the second statement refuses to acknowledge any positives. Do you see the difference?

Re:products did not end with a whimper

[dfghjk]

"The assumption that everyone who says positive things about Apple never admits that Apple makes mistakes is also preposterous. Look, dude, either we're both guilty of gross generalization here, or neither of us are."

Not in the context of a thread declaring the superiority of the Newton to current PDAs we're not. You are generalizing about those who react to fanboys while I am generalizing about fanboys. My generalization is accurate regarding fanatics, yours is not because anti-fanatics are not necessarily fanatical themselves.

"All you have to do is admit that you own a Mac and like it."

That's not true. I own a mac and like it yet I'm accused of being an Apple hater. That's because I call zealots on their crap. I am not a zealot nor a "hater", I am anti-zealot.

"...apparently the act of owning a Macintosh is seen as a rebuke to those who do not."

Not owning a mac is seen as a rebuke to mac zealots as well. Merely posting a non-positive comment regarding Apple here results in a fanboy moderation shitstorm. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black!

"Maybe you think this says something about the zealotry of Apple owners; I think it says a lot more about the insecurity of people who respond that way to Apple owners."

The constant boasting and evangelizing of Apple owners is a testament to their insecurities. You don't see constant evangelizing about many products yet you see them for EVERY Apple product, even the ones that are long dead and buried. This is unique to Apple because their groupies are incredibly insecure. They are also, as a group, more technically ignorant that PC owners yet they are consistently convinced Apple products are superior in every way and that each and every Apple product is superior. When compared to Apple zealots, virtually any other kind of zealot appears reasonable.

Fanboyism grows out of a need for validation. They need to believe they're "on the right team" yet they can't be sure of it themselves. They need others to tell them that they're superior because they have the best. Fanboys can't stand that people buy products other than from their chosen vendor because they don't receive that validation.

"No, the Newton isn't better than a modern PDA. It's a product of its time, and it was a flawed product in many ways. It was also an advanced product in many ways; someone saying "It was ahead of its time" was essentially met in this thread by "no, it sucked ass." The first statement doesn't require the Newton to have been flawless (or even successful); the second statement refuses to acknowledge any positives. Do you see the difference?"

I would if it were true but it's not. The Newton sucked ass and I say that without implying that it had no redeeming qualities. It was too big, too heavy, too expensive, and too flawed in its capabilities. It lost resoundingly in the marketplace so "sucked ass" is appropriate even if some of its ideas were ahead of their time. As flawed and unsuccessful as the Newton was, it hasn't stopped Microsoft from trying to establish that very form factor again. I think that's even more absurd!

Why buy an iPhone?

[sven_kirk]

Other than combining the "functionality" of the two, what makes IT stand out? Yes, I do agree on the memory size. But other than that, it is way overpriced. Being locked into iTunes and higher phone plan rates. Count me out. Not to mention the phone would probably not even be covered by insurance for theft or accident.

Re:Why buy an iPhone?

[TomHandy]

The OS makes it stand out, if that's what you're asking. The specific interface and the way you interact with it is fairly different (not getting into whether it's better or worse, just different). As a Treo 650 user who has seen Palm OS go without any significant updates for years, I personally welcome seeing what the iPhone brings to the table.

As far as insurance, it could be insured by something like safeware.com I think.

Re:Why buy an iPhone?

[TomHandy]

Also, not sure what you mean about being "locked into iTunes"; do you just mean that you have to use iTunes to transfer music/videos to it? If you meant locked into iTunes music or something, of course you don't need to ever buy a single bit of content from iTunes. Like any iPod you can transfer your regular MP3's, etc. as well.

As far as higher phone plan rates; what do you mean? The rate plans are basically the same as other phone rate plans - the only thing that makes it somewhat higher I guess is that the unlimited data appears to be required, but they aren't higher than normal really compared to the plans you'd get with a Blackberry, BlackJack, etc.

Re:Why buy an iPhone?

[timmarhy]

it's a FOUR YEAR PLAN. ffs that's terrible, AND it's cingular who are shocking.

Re:Why buy an iPhone?

[TomHandy]

What's a 4-year plan? I'm not sure I'm following you. Do you mean the contract? If so, it's a 2-year contract, which isn't specifically unusual in this industry. I'm not sure what you mean "it's cingular who are shocking"; can you clarify what that sentence actually means?

Re:Why buy an iPhone?

[soft_guy]

"it's cingular who are shocking"; can you clarify what that sentence actually means? It means he is an ignorant fucktard with no grasp of basic english grammar.

Re:Why buy an iPhone?

[DrXym]

Nothing makes it standout except for it's price. At $600 ON A CONTRACT, you are essentially pissing your money down the drain. You could buy an 80Gb iPod and virtually any other phone (including superior Windows Mobile / Blackberry phones) from any other provider on a lower contract for less.

Echo of products past

[davmoo]

with all the hype associated with the iPhone

The more hype I see and hear about the iPhone, the more it reminds me of the hype surrounding the Segway.

Re:Echo of products past

[Anonymous Coward]

The more hype I see and hear about the iPhone, the more it reminds me of the hype surrounding the Segway
 
Except, you know, people actually want the iPhone and cell phones are useful. Who actually wanted a Segway and thought it would be good for more than looking like a sidewalk surfing idiot.

Re:Echo of products past

[LKM]

The Segway was only hyped when people didn't actually know what it was. Apple never did that. They came out and showed the iPhone. The Segway hype was despite of the actual product, the iPhone hype is because of it.

Re:Echo of products past

[freeweed]

Who actually wanted a Segway and thought it would be good for more than looking like a sidewalk surfing idiot.

The exact same people who are writing about how the iPhone is so revolutionary, cities will be re-designed around it!

Seriously, I think the iPhone will do rather well - but until someone in the general public actually owns one of these puppies, it's Segway all the way in my books. Very apt comparison on the part of the OP.

I thought it was a closed platform?

[Anonymous Coward]

Where are all these applications coming from. Didn't Jobs claim it was a closed platform?

Must have Itunes

[LostEmail]

I can't even use the Iphone if I got it. You need Itunes to activate it and the last time I looked Itunes isn't available on Ubuntu.

Is there a work around or anything?

Re:Must have Itunes

[Kalriath]

I think the real question is: why do you have to pay to activate it?

Wow, even Microsoft wont dare pull that stunt.

Re:Must have Itunes

[mr_matticus]

Is this a joke, or have you honestly never bought a cell phone?

That mysterious "activation fee" has been kicking around first cell phone bills for at least 14 years now.

Re:Must have Itunes

[Kalriath]

No it's not a joke. I have never, I repeat never seen an "Activation Fee" on any of my cell phone bills for any of my 5 cell phones. Maybe my country just sucks less? Do you folks in America get ridiculous fees on everything?

Re:Must have Itunes

[mr_matticus]

Basically. Cellular carriers charge an activation fee for new accounts here (usually $30-60) to set up the line; in other countries where I've lived, I've sometimes been charged a fee for the SIM card, which amounts to the same thing (but usually closer to $15 in value). It is in part how they recoup the cost of the "free" phones they give away (putting the rest into the subscription costs spread over the length of the inescapable contract). Occasionally, they will have special sales where they don't charge an activation fee, usually for holiday rushes or to pump up end-of-quarter numbers.

Re:Must have Itunes

[Anonymous Coward]

>> Do you folks in America get ridiculous fees on everything? Yes.

Re:Must have Itunes

[fbjon]

$30-60?! In Finland this is usually 0€ or around there. I don't see how it can make sense to charge for setting up a connection, since that is what you want people to do as much as possible. If a competitor charges $30 for setting up, you'd get instant customers by saying "changing to us right now costs nothing, no hidden fees!".

Re:Must have Itunes

[mr_matticus]

Except that switching to them 'right now' would incur a cancellation fee ($175-200+) from the current carrier with whom you have a contract. So while you could switch to the hypothetical "new guys" without hidden fees, the old guys would still get you--and hidden fees and feet dragging about taking your current number with you can still cause headaches.

You're right, it doesn't make any sense to charge an activation fee, really, since it's a simple matter of activating the card in the computer system and handing over the service agreement. But it's a mistake to think that what US cellular providers do should make sense. We pay for incoming calls, all text messages, both directions, and nationwide long distance/no domestic roaming fees were a big deal when they became standard not that long ago. We're also assessed airtime for toll-free numbers and I had an amusing incident where checking my voicemail cost me nearly $4 (not a typo) per minute, because I was being triple-charged international rates because of how they route calls to voicemail numbers on a previous carrier.

Prior to that, if you were driving across the country and got handed off to a competitor's network, you were charged for your roaming per minute (40 cents/minute or even more was not uncommon), even though it was YOUR carrier's fault that their network didn't provide coverage, forcing you to piggyback on someone else's towers.

Re:Must have Itunes

[fbjon]

The cell phone market in the US seems awesomely borked. Isn't there any kind of regulation for operators? Or perhaps the operators are just so hostile towards each other that all rational thought goes out the window..

Re:Must have Itunes

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, the activation fee is just an arbitrary way to gouge more money from their customers. I think you can generally avoid it by making a credible threat to switch carriers.

But paying (minutes) for incoming calls makes sense. Why should it matter who initiated the call? Any mobile phones on either the 'placing' or 'receiving' ends of the call are using the towers and radio bandwidth belonging to their respective carriers' networks. It's very symmetric.

If my wife uses carrier X and I use carrier Y, and if she always calls me and I never call her, then why should X and Y be required to charge differently? The costs for them will be basically the same.

I mean, if the carrier wants to offer a plan with a feature like "incoming calls are free" or "outgoing calls are free", then sure, they should be able to do that. But to require the feature that "incoming calls are free" seems really strange to me.

Re:Must have Itunes

[mr_matticus]

You don't pay for incoming calls on your land line. You don't pay for incoming cellular calls in Canada, South America, Asia, or Europe. The reason being that you didn't make the call and you're not choosing anything about it other than to answer, and you don't know how long that call will be or where it's coming from--you could be charged international rates for someone calling you, even though the number appears to be local, because they could be roaming.

It doesn't cost them anywhere near what they currently charge to connect the call, much less cost them double by making both ends pay. It's something the American cellular market invented to make more money and is unique to them.

Re:Must have Itunes

[Kalriath]

Wow. You guys even have fixed term contracts! All our providers axed those years ago. We also pay only for text messages and calls we make. Granted, we pay a bit more for our calls then quite a few other countries (I think here in New Zealand we're 23rd from the top in cellphone call pricing)

You should probably also be aware that a cellphone provider (don't know about your country, but it's the case here and in Australia) is actually PAID by the calling provider to connect a call to their customers. So really, presuming your providers do the same it's ridiculous that they'd charge to receive calls.

Re:Must have Itunes

[WaltFrench]

Is there a work around or anything?

VMWare+XP. Not exactly cheap, but I hear that there are lots of useful programs written for Windows that'd come with it.

Let's all be dense & cute. Even if it didn't work for Ms. Hilton.

Is it any good as a phone?

[Anonymous Coward]

A few things to consider when buying a phone :

How good is the quality of the audio microphone & speaker ?
How long does the battery last ?
The areas covered by the carrier signal used by the phone network.

All 3 of these seem lacking from what I've heard in the recent iPhone feeding frenzy...

Too bad

[nytes]

I'll be too busy playing with my new copy of the GPL v3 to bother with the iPhone.

This was pretty poor timing by Apple.

Re:Too bad

[earnest murderer]

I just wanted to say thank you for not posting metadiscussion about the post, how much you hate the iPhone itself, or running off at the mouth with missinformation. Seriously.

Re:Too bad

[FlameSnyper]

missinformation Is that near Alabama? :-)

Ended with a whimper instead of a roar?

[Anonymous Coward]

What product ends with a roar (besides explosives)? As far as I know, any product that's still roaring isn't going to end until it's whimpering.

And calling the iMac a product that ended with a whimper is wrong. They're still produced and still solid sellers.

Re:You ain't just whistlin' dixie...

[dotpavan]

iphone this, iphone that.. it is getting so loud that some passing ufo/alien would see the buzz and pay us a visit (I am bad at cartoons, so imagine earth and the word "iphone" in comic bubbles coming out of earth)

then iphone's new tagline would be "we achieved what SETI@home couldnt"

Don't believe the hype

[bjourne]

In your post, you have only mentioned negatives about the iPhone; high cost, shitty price plan, no GPS, no 3G. The one positive thing you listed is the UI and "non-crashyness." How anyone could be sure that the iPhone doesn't crash as "often" as existing smart phones on the market is beyond me or how anyone except for the select few reviewers that have actually used an iPhone can know that the UI is better. And still, you're planning to buy the phone on launch day.

How can you know that the iPhone is worth the money or even decent? You can't. It is all hype and 900 million dollar pre-launch marketing, probably more than the total development cost for the device.

Re:Don't believe the hype

[Doogie5526]

While "brand names" are usually looked down upon for being overpriced, they're brands because they offer an expectation. With Apple the common expectation is better-than-average design and innovative user interfaces. This may change (such as Disney Animations brand got diluted with things like straight-to-video releases), but it's enough to sell units even before seeing and using them.

Re:Don't believe the hype

[adam]

I mentioned the negatives because I figured the positive were obvious-- they're the details we've all known for a while, and the ones that get most exposure in the 34838483 stories on /. and elsewhere. The negatives you hear, well, on many sites like Engadget, these are often spurious, or at best they're speculations. The negatives I pointed out really do exist, but aren't the end of the world (for me), and I figured maybe other readers would want to hear my take. I don't consider the price a negative. I spent $500 on my blackberry, and around $700 on my Treo (back in the day), so Apple's price is right about what I'm willing to pay for a good smartphone.

"except for the select few reviewers that have actually used an iPhone can know that the UI is better"

Anyone who had watched the apple tour video can tell you the UI is lightyears ahead of Blackberry, Treo, etc. Even the commercials make this apparent. And as I said, I'm willing to put some faith in certain reviewers (Pogue, etc), and they have all said positive things about the majority of the phone's features.

"How anyone could be sure that the iPhone doesn't crash as "often" as existing smart phones on the market is beyond me"

My Treo would endure around 3-5 crashes PER DAY. My blackberry doesn't crash, but has gotten considerable slower over time, and freezes occasionally (and this always seems to be at the exact wrong moment). I am not someone who grants corporations a lot of faith, but Apple is one of the few who has earned my faith. They're products aren't know for being cheap, but their UI and industrial design are both industry leading, and stability is an important factor to them. This is evidenced in the lack of third party apps-- that's what causes many other phones crash 10 times a day (instead of the normal once or twice if you're only using the native apps). Apple has earned enough credit with me that I'm willing to stake $500 on their product being solid. Apple doesn't have the best reputation for 1st gen devices, but I've had no issues with my Macbook Pro, so I'm willing to take that "gamble" again.. some aren't. Incidentally, the only other company that I can think of that I've decided to buy a product without even seeing it in person, was my Lotus, and that was for the same reasons. And I was very happy I made the purchase.

"How can you know that the iPhone is worth the money or even decent?"

I can't "KNOW" anything about the iPhone, really. What I do "KNOW" is that apple has, in the past, built many products I am very happy with, and has earned a reputation for quality. So yes, it's a gamble, but I believe the odds are handicapped in my favor. Incidentally, if you're tempted to call me an Apple zealot.. I'm making this post from an Opteron box running XP64 Corp. I tend to believe in the right tool for the right job-- in this case, I don't feel like the blackberry is the right tool for me, and even if the iPhone isn't [exactly] either, it's as close as anything will be for a while.

Re:Don't believe the hype

[bjourne]

Anyone who had watched the apple tour video can tell you the UI is lightyears ahead of Blackberry, Treo, etc. Even the commercials make this apparent. And as I said, I'm willing to put some faith in certain reviewers (Pogue, etc), and they have all said positive things about the majority of the phone's features.

That is called "advertising." Anyone who have watched the trailers for Pirates of the Caribbean: At World's End can tell you that that is an awesome movie. Suckers queued in line for that product too.

Re:Don't believe the hype

[Achromatic1978]

Anyone who had watched the apple tour video can tell you the UI is lightyears ahead of Blackberry, Treo, etc. Even the commercials make this apparent.

Oh, come on! Go back and read and re-read that sentence and ask yourself how ridiculous it sounds.

These are the same commercials that show someone clicking a button, and getting directions to a seafood restaurant nearby. Except we know that the phone doesn't have GPS. How does it know this? Oh, yes, you need to show Google Maps where you are. That bit was cut for the MARKETING. But yet if you'd not read a review, but watched Apple's tour video and commercials, you'd think it had GPS.

Re:Don't believe the hype

[UttBuggly]

Amen and Hallelujah!

In other words, you said very succinctly what I have been trying to express to my friends and family. For some people, this (the iPhone) is a fairly-to-very attractive gadget. We will get one the 29th or soon after.

My situation is:

Contract with AllTel expires in early July. The phone is a basic Motorola with a tiny screen.
I have a 1GB iPod Shuffle, which has no screen, of course.
I have an excellent, older 4MP Canon SureShot. Takes great photos, but is pretty big in comparison to an iPhone.
I have a dead Compaq iPaq somewhere that I hated because it was the size of a TOS tricorder among other things and had an unusable Web experience.

Since I've had many occasions to carry all of those things around, along with a pager, NexTel radio, etc. as needed, the appeal of the iPhone is obvious. I don't text, so the $60 plan (a whole $11 more than my current AllTel plan) actually works perfect for me.

Do I KNOW anything about the iPhone? Other than it makes perfect sense to me for my needs and usage profile....nope!

Re:Don't believe the hype

[SuperKendall]

These are the same commercials that show someone clicking a button, and getting directions to a seafood restaurant nearby. Except we know that the phone doesn't have GPS. How does it know this? Oh, yes, you need to show Google Maps where you are.

But the end user will have thier home city (or even office) set as a default location. That is a very realistic presentation of a typical user expereince with the device.

Furthermore, he said THE TOUR. Not THE COMMERCIALS. The commercials are indeed truncated, but the tour lays it all out on the table. The Tour is how we KNOW is doesn't have GPS in the first place.

So check the post you are responding to before you throw aroudn baseless assertions.

Re:Don't believe the hype

[VGPowerlord]

Furthermore, he said THE TOUR. Not THE COMMERCIALS. The commercials are indeed truncated, but the tour lays it all out on the table. The Tour is how we KNOW is doesn't have GPS in the first place.

"Anyone who had watched the apple tour video can tell you the UI is lightyears ahead of Blackberry, Treo, etc. Even the commercials make this apparent."

The part you missed/ignored is in bold.

Re:Don't believe the hype

[Afecks]

So check the post you are responding to before you throw aroudn baseless assertions.
Irony called. He wants to see you in his office IMMEDIATELY.

Re:Don't believe the hype

[fbjon]

But the end user will have thier home city (or even office) set as a default location. That is a very realistic presentation of a typical user expereince with the device. Uh, wow.

Monday: "I wonder what restaurants can be found around my work place, where I go every day..."
Tuesday: "I wonder what restaurants can be found around my work place, where I go every day..."

It sounds rather kludgy from my point of view. Revolutionary would be if it already had all the info, gathered based on my location, and I just hit a button: "food" and it gives a couple of arrows I can follow to get to different kinds of food, based on my preferences. Or "Kill time: 30 min", and it gives a few small galleries, cafés, and nice parks (depending on weather). That's a feature worth talking about.

Re:Don't believe the hype

[dunkelfalke]

revolutionary?
pretty much every windows mobile navigation system can do this, the function is called POI (points of interest). generally you can either choose POIs nearest to your current location received from GPS or in any location you choose.

Re:Don't believe the hype

[LKM]

So you're saying the iPhone's UI doesn't work like in Apple's movies. Right.

Re:Don't believe the hype

[papageorgio02]

I too am wondering about the "non-crashyness". Why would someone think this? I mean my iPod locks up more often then my Moto Q ever does.

I don't plan on buying the iPhone for a while, if ever. I just can't get past the price, for basically the same stuff I can already do on my current phone.

Re:Don't believe the hype

[Anonymous Coward]

I spent $500 on my blackberry, and around $700 on my Treo (back in the day), so Apple's price is right about what I'm willing to pay for a good smartphone.

No you didn't, you liar! The iPhone is by far the most expensive phone ever made! I know this is true because Steve Ballmer said so! The iPhone is so overpriced that it actually made Steve Ballmer giggle at the absurdity! Steve Ballmer must know, after all he runs Microsoft, so he must know everything about this market!

Re:Don't believe the hype

[SuperKendall]

Fine, but it doesn't change my main point which is that the tour was quite explicit.

Re:Don't believe the hype

[SuperKendall]

Irony called. He wants to see you in his office IMMEDIATELY.

Turned out it was a wrong number, Avril.

Re:Don't believe the hype

[polymath69]

Irony called. He wants to see you in his office IMMEDIATELY.

Turned out it was a wrong number, Avril.

%SYSFWTF-E-AM, Irony overload
$

Re:Don't believe the hype

[bugnuts]

%SYSFWTF-E-AM, Irony overload
$ $ DIR
Directory DISK$USER01:[IRONY]

VMS.REF.ON.LINUX.FORUM;4
$

Re:Don't believe the hype

[Anonymous Coward]

Do you really, honestly believe that the iPhone commercials don't show you a UI that is quite advanced, compared to current smartphones?

Are you really arguing that the commercials don't make this apparent?

Are you serious?

Btw, when I watched the commercials, I didn't assume GPS, I assumed that it works just like Google Maps on the web - which it does.

Five, Four, Three...

[Dan East]

That's the countdown until we see a slew of applications for Windows Mobile smartphones and Pocket PCs containing the exact same feature set and interface as the iPhone's software. The multi-touch screen is really the only major hardware component the iPhone has over existing devices, so its primarily a matter of software, which we'll see shortly.

Dan East

Re:Five, Four, Three...

[XxtraLarGe]

The multi-touch screen is really the only major hardware component the iPhone has over existing devices, so its primarily a matter of software, which we'll see shortly. Except maybe for iTunes...

Re:Five, Four, Three...

[His Shadow]

That's the countdown until we see a slew of applications for Windows Mobile smartphones and Pocket PCs

Spare us. A 15 year headstart didn't give us anything as slick as the iPhone and you think Microsoft or Motorola will be able to do anything but create a crappy "good enough" copy? Just like their current junk?

I guess you can dream.

Re:Five, Four, Three...

[LynnwoodRooster]

Already here. And it works REALLY well... These phones can be found for sale in several of the electronics malls here in Shanghai, and I'm sure in most of Asia.

Re:Five, Four, Three...

[LynnwoodRooster]

Let me fix that... The HTC Touch Flo works REALLY well, is available now, runs Windows Mobile (so automatic syncing with Exchange and its calendar), handles MMS, Bluetooth, and just about everything else the iPhone's being knocked for not having.

Re:Five, Four, Three...

[Overzeetop]

Actually, there are some pretty low level things that might not be "available" for WM for quite some time. The finger keyboard actually looks pretty cool - I wish my Hermes (8525) has that, and all the snazzy tie ins to the various parts of the system. Sadly, WM(5/6) is a PDA OS which has been bastardized for a phone device. Very different usability paradigm (sorry, the word fits or I wouldn't have used it). I'm not conviced that the multi-touch feature is all that big a deal. Maybe there's some really good reason for it, but I like my phone to be primarily one-handed. I use two hands for the slide-out keyboard, but that's a bit different. I suspect some of the really cool stuff is patented (insert flame war here).

I see the fact that it is not 3G (in 3G markets) a bid drawback. I'm in an EDGE area and let me just say that pulling 100kB of CSS before the page even starts to load is unbelievably painful (and embarrassing if you're trying to get something simple like news or the Weather from a non-mobile-optimized site). I'm guessing, though, that WM devices may get a leg up if/when Opera implements some of the zoom-and-pan coolness of the iPhone browser, and the WM phones run at 3G speed (which is very cool, btw).

Re:Five, Four, Three...

[NDPTAL85]

And underneath the smooth touch screen LAUNCHER its still the same lame Windows Mobile underneath.

Care to fail again?

Re:Will it

[Mattintosh]

For this much hype, you'd think it came with 3 5-star hookers and a brick of cocaine straight from colombia

And even if it did, there would be anti-fanbois that complain that it lacked the necessary rolled c-note to snort the coke and that the Treo 576Whatever843 comes with 5 hookers and certificates guaranteeing them to be disease-free. And the Crackberry has crack instead, and a server that sends you more over a proprietary protocol without the need to go to a dealer to get refills.

I do agree that the post rate for iPhone stories is getting absurd, though. Only 2 more days and the wait will be over... the wait for everyone to stop posting their random idiotic speculation about how good/bad/shiny it's going to be!

Can I get an "Amen"?

Redundancy?

[DefenderThree]

All Things iPhone You mean Slashdot?

Re:Redundancy?

[SolitaryMan]

Yeah, honestly, this "no shortage of stories [about iPhone] being submitted" made me sick already. Is this the first time some company releases some overpriced product or what?

Re:You ain't just whistlin' dixie...

[Anonymous Coward]

Come on google only shows 73,200,000 millions his for iPhone!

But will it talk to my car?

[Jay Maynard]

There are two deal-breakers for me with the iPhone: It has to sync with Exchange directly (no, not just IMAP, but calendaring as well), and it must work with my car's Bluetooth module. The former is because that's the only way I'll get my boss to let me get one instead of a Blackberry; the latter is because no $600 phone, no matter how insanely great, will get me to get rid of a $45K car.

Re:But will it talk to my car?

[DrTime]

It'll plug into to my car's iPod dock connector. But then I won't be able to use the phone, it'll be in glove box. It'll be a nice iPod when in my car. So how do I get them directions? Great idea BMW and Apple. Still, I'd love to have one and may stand in line for one on Friday, or just wait and buy one on-line.

Re:But will it talk to my car?

[Volanin]

Also important to mention are the things the iPhone DOESN'T do.
(Not bashing the product, I really have high hopes for it.)

What the iPhone Doesn't Have:

- Songs as Ringtones
- Games
- Any flash support
- Instant Messaging
- Picture messages (MMS)
- Video recording
- Voice recognition or voice dialing
- Wireless Bluetooth Stereo Streaming (A2DP)
- One-size-fits-all headset jack (May have to buy an adapter for certain headphones)

Stuff we already knew it didn't have:

- 3G (EV-DO/HSDPA)
- GPS
- A real keyboard
- Removable battery
- Expandable Storage
- Direct iTunes Music Store Access (Over Wi-Fi or EDGE)

Source:
http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/apple/what-the-iphone-d oesnt-have-272571.php

Re:But will it talk to my car?

[mr_matticus]

One-size-fits-all headset jack (May have to buy an adapter for certain headphones) Versus the 2.5mm stupid-ass jack on Windows Mobile devices? I'll take my chances with the fully standard minijack.

Songs as Ringtones - Games We don't know that. In the introductory videos, there was a ringtones tab in iTunes. The iTunes store for the iPhone hasn't been launched yet, so who knows what sorts of games and additional apps will become available.

- Instant Messaging - Picture messages (MMS) Why would you need either of those with an internet connection? Why pay 25 cents for a stupid MMS message when you can just send a friggin email?

- A real keyboard So? Notebooks don't have real mice. People get over it--all the reviewers have.

I'm sure the battery will be replaceable for anyone with five minutes, just like the iPod is now. It would be strange to expect any differently of a small Apple device. 3G isn't a practical expectation or a useful feature given that this is a GSM device. If you want a 3G phone, wait for a later version, to be launched around the time AT&T has a useful 3G network to take advantage of it.

It is not Jesus. It is not sex. It's just a handheld electronic device. But damn, if people don't try to find any little thing to put on a 'con' list. Some of this stuff just doesn't make sense--what is their reasonable base of comparison? Why not add "it doesn't run Windows" to the list? It's like someone put this whole thing together without even stopping to consider that there might be alternatives to some of these "essential" features.

Re:But will it talk to my car?

[good soldier svejk]

The calendar syncs with Exchange indirectly through Entourage or Outlook. Also it syncs with Address Book, which syncs with AD for contacts. Kinda hokey, but I guess it'll work. Beats me about the car.

Re:But will it talk to my car?

[Jay Maynard]

I'm using sync through Entourage now with my Treo 680, and it sucks. The Exchange 2003 SP1 update broke Entourage syncing; now I get hundreds of errors every time I start it up about not being able to sync back with the Exchange server. I have been totally unable to get any help with it at all, on the web or elsewhere - and support from Microsoft? Hahahaha! That also doesn't provide syncing while I'm away from my computer, or push email (I've got Chatter Email on the Treo for that, but there's no similar product for the iPhone, and no, forwarding to Yahoo! Mail is not an answer; I don't need yet another duplicate copy of my company email).

If it doesn't talk to Exchange directly (or Blackberry Enterprise Server, which they've managed to get right enough), it's a kludge, and I'm tired of kludges.

Re:But will it talk to my car?

[olddotter]

Well I know two people for whom iPod compatibility was the driving force behind they selection of potential cars. One bought a Scion, the other a BMW.

So it might not make you get ride of your car, but it might make someone else.

Anyway, it is supposed to support bluetooth headsets, or so I heard.

Re:But will it talk to my car?

[fredmosby]

A real keyboard

None of the other phones come with a real keyboard either.

Re:But will it talk to my car?

[Jay Maynard]

Supporting BT headsets isn't enough...apparently, there are several different versions of the BT spec, with attendant incompatibilities. I had to replace my Treo 650 with the 680 when I got this car for that reason.

Re:But will it talk to my car?

[frdmfghtr]

- Instant Messaging - Picture messages (MMS)
Why would you need either of those with an internet connection? Why pay 25 cents for a stupid MMS message when you can just send a friggin email?

Because the recipient is receiving the MMS on a cellphone.

Re:But will it talk to my car?

[Anonymous Coward]

I completely do not understand why all the hype for the iPhone. I use an O2 XDA IIs which runs WM2003SE and it does everything (and more) than the iPhone.

> What the iPhone Doesn't Have:
>
> - Songs as Ringtones
> - Games
> - Any flash support
> - Instant Messaging
> - Picture messages (MMS)
> - Video recording
> - Voice recognition or voice dialing

My O2 does all this already. So it begs the question why all this hype over the iPhone when it doesn't do anything I haven't been able to do for the last 4 years with my O2.

Re:But will it talk to my car?

[Weedlekin]

"What the iPhone Doesn't Have:

- Songs as Ringtones"

Oh, please God, PLEASE let this be true...

Re:But will it talk to my car?

[Tom]

What the iPhone Doesn't Have:

- Songs as Ringtones I think that qualifies as a feature. Ringtones are bad enough as they are. On some days, I feel like punishing the idiots in the face who have their ringtones as loud as possible, finally take it out of their pocket after the 3rd ring, and let it ring two more times in the open, just to make sure everyone on the train knows they have a cellphone. Dudes, it's not 1995 anymore when having a cellphone was a symbol of cool and/or importance.

Re:But will it talk to my car?

[mr_matticus]

Last time I checked, sending an email to the person's handset number at the appropriate domain worked just as well.

I Gmail pictures to my phone all the time. I can also send an email from my phone's web browser to someone else's mobile number and they get the picture just fine, receiving it on their handset as an MMS message. You can test it yourself--1234567890@cingularme.com where the numbers are, of course, your 10-digit number. The only iPhone users who would need MMS would be those iPhone users without data plans. If my computer can MMS my phone via the web, the iPhone shouldn't have trouble, either.

Re:But will it talk to my car?

[dunkelfalke]

Versus the 2.5mm stupid-ass jack on Windows Mobile devices? I'll take my chances with the fully standard minijack.

sorry? my windows mobile phone has got a standard 3.5mm jack and i use my sennheiser headphones with it.

Why would you need either of those with an internet connection? Why pay 25 cents for a stupid MMS message when you can just send a friggin email?

because it is a "friggin" phone and it should be able to communicate with other phones, not only with computers. gsm phones can do messaging for lots and lots of years and a brand new phone can't? ridiculous.

I'm sure the battery will be replaceable for anyone with five minutes, just like the iPod is now.

in other phones the battery can be replaced within seconds. it can be very practical to keep more than one battery at home and swap when you have the need.

It's just a handheld electronic device.

it is a too much hyped electronic device which promises lots, but cannot do even the basic stuff. my base of comparison is my htc universal which is very practical. it is a full featured gsm phone with umts support, sms, mms, java mobile and so on (and i can even use different sim cards with it). i can play games with it - even doom and duke nukem 3d, synchronise with outlook, listen to music (mp3, ogg, whatever) without being limited by the memory (sd card slot), watch movies, use gps navigation, use remote desktop to connect to my computer, instant messaging (icq, msn, yahoo, jabber, you name it), i have a choice between at least 3 different web browsers, read books, edit pictures i made with my camera and so on and so on. i can even run linux on it if i want to and it also does have a keyboard. you see, it is about choice. slashdot used to be about choice, but not anymore, i suppose.

if a software can be developed for a handheld device, then the device can be very practical and multifunctional. but when a pda is intentionally limited to a couple of functions then it is crap, in this case, a high priced lifestyle crap. i don't care much about the interface, i want to use the device.

Re:But will it talk to my car?

[stewbacca]

i don't care much about the interface, i want to use the device.

It seems whatever interface you currently don't care about is preventing you from using the shift key.

Re:But will it talk to my car?

[stewbacca]

Come on now...I presume if they are receiving MMS on a cell phone, said cell phone could also receive AHV (a human voice). What ever happened to calling the person with whom you wish to communicate?

Re:But will it talk to my car?

[Poorcku]

We don't know that. In the introductory videos, there was a ringtones tab in iTunes. The iTunes store for the iPhone hasn't been launched yet, so who knows what sorts of games and additional apps will become available.

Yes we know from the review WSJ made. Mp3 will not be supported as ringtones; which is bad, because my Nokia can, and i have a beautiful Chris Rea slide guitar as a ringtone for years now. I am accustomed to it. As for the ITunes for Iphone - believe me, you don't wanna go there. 2-3 dollars for a 30 sec. clip??? Forgive me if i laugh. (nevertheless i am from europe, here it is considered a rip off).

It is not Jesus. It is not sex. It's just a handheld electronic device. But damn, if people don't try to find any little thing to put on a 'con' list.

Well i do con list every time i have to shelve 500 bucks for an item. Sorry, this is not unreasonable.

Why not add "it doesn't run Windows" to the list?

Because that would be unreasonable.

Re:But will it talk to my car?

[dunkelfalke]

it is not, i just don't care about the shift key

Re:But will it talk to my car?

[toleraen]

I'd totally call them to send the movie clip, but I can't get my cell phone to sit properly on the acoustic coupler. Any ideas?

Re:But will it talk to my car?

[intheshelter]

I just want to make sure I understand your huge problem. You can afford a BMW and yet you can't afford a dedicated iPod to keep in your BMW's glove box? We should all have such a terrible problem!

Re:But will it talk to my car?

[LKM]

Why would you need either of those with an internet connection?

In Europe, MMS are used for lots of stuff. For example, I can send postcards with pictures I've taken using an MMS containing the picture, the address and the text I want written on the card.

GPs cons-list seemed absolutely objective and true to me. I'm still going to buy an iPhone if it ever comes out over here, but that doesn't mean I'm not going to miss MMS, or actual chatting (which could be fixed using a web app, though).

Re:But will it talk to my car?

[LKM]

Good defense.

"I can't send somebody a picture using MMS, and I can't receive MMS using the iPhone!"
"Just call them."

Some people want or need MMS. "Just call them" doesn't fix that issue.

Re:But will it talk to my car?

[LKM]

How about receiving something? How about layouting the MMS?

Re:But will it talk to my car?

[jav27]

There is no need for MMS in the iphone since you can send and receive email, and you can send email to a phone. For example for tmobile it is your_number@tmomail.net

Re:But will it talk to my car?

[dlim]

First of all, I do understand your point. And while I generally avoid the extra time it takes to type words into a cellphone over just *speaking them*, there are situations where talking is more difficult.

• Sporting events
• clubs / bars
• libraries
• anywhere where loud crowd noise makes it difficult to hear/speak

Additionally, sending a picture/video can sometimes communicate your message more efficiently than speaking as well. Obviously the phone supports SMS messaging (AT&T is using the number of SMS messages / month to differentiate some of their plans), but it seems to me that "texting" is a more common activity than sending email. I'm a bit surprised to hear that the phone doesn't support common messaging formats.

Re:But will it talk to my car?

[illumin8]

There are two deal-breakers for me with the iPhone: It has to sync with Exchange directly (no, not just IMAP, but calendaring as well), and it must work with my car's Bluetooth module. The former is because that's the only way I'll get my boss to let me get one instead of a Blackberry; the latter is because no $600 phone, no matter how insanely great, will get me to get rid of a $45K car.

Wow talk about vendor lockin... Anyway, I think they have you covered on both accounts. iPhone WILL sync with Outlook (just not wirelessly), so you can get your calendar/contacts/tasks synced every time you put it in the dock. It also should work with your Bluetooth hands free kit in your car, but check the Apple site to make sure it's compatible. I don't think you'll have any problems.

Re:But will it talk to my car?

[Cheesbo]

This is a totally geek approach.... Let's say that I want to send a stupid photo that I captured with my amazing iphone (probably people staring at me while I am using it... what an ego-boost for 2-3 months!!!) to a friend that just have a cell phone... typical one... and doesn't care about emails....setting up weird accounts...and stuff like that... like ....(Are you ready? ) a typical girl.... what I am going to do? Analyze to her how great it will be to set up her account to receive emails ? Explain why my awesome phone is not doing what a free phone 2-3 years ago could do? If you want to have an amazing mobile phone FIRST support the typical features... Moreover this IM through messages... this is crappy.... it is not IM since I can't start sending messages like crazy to friends... they will stop speaking to me if I force them to pay 10cents for every post. Ok you can have a special plan but any of my friends that I chat all day using IM have one...

Re:But will it talk to my car?

[Trifthen]

See, I've always wondered about that. I don't have giant hands, but how the hell do people call those tiny things keyboards and moan about devices that don't have them? I type qwerty at over 80wpm... obviously home-row and muscle memory means absolutely nothing when you have to stare at the miniscule keys, since you're forced to type with an index finger or your thumbs... if you can get just the right angle to utilize your fingernails.

If I can't qwerty, having a itty-bitty keyboard, virtual or not, has the same damn drawbacks, and the "real" keyboard takes up way more room, reduces screen real-estate, and each individual key can fail or get sticky separately.

But hey, "ONOZ! Teh keybrod isn't like my blckbery!" is a valid complaint, I guess.

And before anyone accuses me of being a Mac Fanboi, I've never in my entire life owned an Apple product. Ever. And while nothing the iPhone does is individually unique or ground-breaking, the fact they've rolled all these things up into a virtual-tablet with gestures, everything a Palm should have been, barring technological advances, is the real story here. I'm one of possibly many people, that if Apple released something slightly larger, without the phone crap—just a wifi mini-tablet, I'd snap one up in a second.

But, alas...

Re:But will it talk to my car?

[mr_matticus]

because it is a "friggin" phone and it should be able to communicate with other phones, not only with computers. gsm phones can do messaging for lots and lots of years and a brand new phone can't? ridiculous. MMS is a cute replacement for email from when cell phones couldn't get any form of Internet access. It's expensive, limited, and pointless. The iPhone can send and receive MMS over the web through the provider's email account (which is how MMS is handled now anyway--it's just a specially formatted email forwarded to your phone, while others are blocked).

sorry? my windows mobile phone has got a standard 3.5mm jack and i use my sennheiser headphones with it. Calling the HTC Universal a "phone" when it's bigger than a PDA is a bit misleading. Look at the other HTC products--nearly universally using 2.5mm jacks, not to mention Blackberries and Treos, the dominant products. Hooray, your fringe product has an actual headphone jack! I guess that means everyone else does too. Well, they don't.

it is a too much hyped electronic device which promises lots, but cannot do even the basic stuff. You have a puzzling definition of "can't" and "basic." That's a beautiful laundry list of nonsense, and if you'd recall the early days of Windows Mobile (back when it was still called CE) for phones, you couldn't do any of those things, either. All of the third-party crap you're whining about requires someone to make it. You're comparing a product with nearly a decade of people writing shitty apps with a few lucky hits to a product platform that hasn't even been released.

Re:But will it talk to my car?

[mr_matticus]

Yes we know from the review WSJ made. Wrong. Some kind of music ringtone management is coming.

Well i do con list every time i have to shelve 500 bucks for an item. Apparently reading comprehension is unreasonable to you as well. There's nothing wrong with a pro/con list--just don't fill it with bullshit.

Because that would be unreasonable. So it would fit in beautifully with most of the rest of that list. Thanks for making my point.

Re:But will it talk to my car?

[mr_matticus]

In the US, MMS is used for overpriced picture mail. Just like not having 3G is not a major concern for the US GSM iPhone and just like not having an actual keyboard is only an imaginary problem, there's not a terribly huge point to it. If you send an MMS to my phone, it comes through as an email. I do not get MMS messages at all, though my phone physically supports them. If the iPhone works the same way, you're not missing anything.

Naturally, I expect the feature set to be revised for future launches, so that the people here with their panties in a twist over features that don't actually do anything in the US can wait for that model.

Re:But will it talk to my car?

[Jay Maynard]

If it doesn't sync with Exchange through Entourage (I refuse to run Outlook in any form), it's not useful at all. If it only syncs through Entourage, and not over the phone data connection, it's only marginally useful. It needs to sync with Exchange directly over the phone's data connection.

I couldn't find any specific compatibility info with anything but Apple's Bluetooth headset on their site, which is what prompted this comment in the first place.

Re:But will it talk to my car?

[Anonymous Coward]

No matter how contrarian you are trying to be, this is still NOT a feature.

People want to have annoying songs to play when someone calls them for a multitude of reasons.

A. It identifies the person based on the ring.

B. It's a symbol of personalizing.

Re:But will it talk to my car?

[Anonymous Coward]

it is not, i just don't care about the shift key
--
It's such a fine line between stupid and clever (David St. Hubbins)

Dear Mr. Stupid-who-thinks-he's-clever, then why is your sig in title case?

Fucking retard.

Re:But will it talk to my car?

[Anonymous Coward]

Layouting, eh.. I think you mean laying out.

If that's what you mean, wth, you're doing page layout on a 3" screen? For what amounts to an email with image attachments?

You've got to be kidding me.

Stop trying to make it seem like MMS is a big deal. Receiving is handled just like it is now, receiving an email to your phone. Or did you not know that's how it works?

Re:But will it talk to my car?

[LKM]

Layouting, eh.. I think you mean laying out.

Layouting isn't a verb? I'm sorry, English isn't my first language.

If that's what you mean, wth, you're doing page layout on a 3" screen? For what amounts to an email with image attachments?
You've got to be kidding me.

I'm assuming you've never actually sent an MMS. MMS messages can have several pages. Each page can advance to the next after a given time. They can contain text, pictures and sound, and the order of these elements can be changed.

Stop trying to make it seem like MMS is a big deal. Receiving is handled just like it is now, receiving an email to your phone. Or did you not know that's how it works?

I'm not exactly sure why you feel the need to insult me. Look, MMS is a big deal. Maybe not in America, but I'm not living in America. I'm living in Europe. And over here, there are no phones without MMS. Everybody writes and receives MMS.

I'm not trying to make it seem like a big deal. It is a god damn big deal.

Re:But will it talk to my car?

[dunkelfalke]

Calling the HTC Universal a "phone" when it's bigger than a PDA is a bit misleading.

bigger than a pda? well, how big exactly is a pda?

You're comparing a product with nearly a decade of people writing shitty apps with a few lucky hits to a product platform that hasn't even been released.

there are more good apps for windows mobile alone than good apps for all apple products - that comes because of a larger installed base. anyway, you don't get it, do you?
i am comparing an open product with a closed and locked one. you can make apps for windows mobile, you cannot make apps for iphone.

Re:But will it talk to my car?

[mr_matticus]

"Larger installed base" for Windows Mobile than for all Apple products? You truly are a loon.

Re:But will it talk to my car?

[dunkelfalke]

calling names doesn't help your argumentation, it only shows that you are too stupid to argue.

Re:But will it talk to my car?

[tehcyder]

no $600 phone, no matter how insanely great, will get me to get rid of a $45K car

Oh come on, you know you want the wonderful new $90,000 iCar, it's like your current car, but you can get it in pink with white upholstery.

Re:But will it talk to my car?

[mr_matticus]

You didn't make a point of any consequence. Or had you forgotten what you wrote?

There is no point in arguing with a fool who thinks there are more "good" apps for Windows Mobile than apps for Apple products as a whole. It's an absurd and moronic statement, and nobody needs to be convinced of that but you--everyone else can see straight through it. Ergo, arguing with you is of no worth to me or to Slashdot.

Re:But will it talk to my car?

[Tom]

No matter how contrarian you are trying to be, this is still NOT a feature. That depends entirely on your POV.

For many corporations, the lack of a camera does qualify as a feature, for example.

From the POV of society, less noise and less "look ma" definitely is an improvement. Sure people want to personalize. But if they've lost all powers of self-regulation, then as everywhere, external regulation has to follow. I'd much prefer it coming from the phone companies, with such simple things as noise detectors and reducing the ring tone volume if the surrounding is quite, only using a loud one if the surrounding is noisy, or just the simple fact of making vibrate the factory default.

Plus I want a brick attached to every cell phone, to punch its owner in the face with if he behaves like an asshole.

tagged "beatenhorse"

[SuperBanana]

Just let the damn thing come.

Agreed. If I had thought of it, I would have made an anti-"29th" t-shirt. Something along the lines of "June 29th, I'll be living my life while you stand in line."

I'll be interested in one- in about 6 months when I know what the teething issues are and version 1.1 is quietly slipped into production.

Re:Will it

[ruiner13]

Only 2 more days and the wait will be over... the wait for everyone to stop posting their random idiotic speculation about how good/bad/shiny it's going to be! Yeah, then it will only be "hands-on" reports and stories about how someone figured out how to crack the OS and load software while it is docked (which I don't doubt you'll be able to do unless Apple physically separated the OS part of the drive from the iPod part). I don't see any shortage of stories on it for at least a month.

Why some of us are excited about iPhone

[Tibor the Hun]

I know I may be late to the party here with 44 coments already posted, but for all you naysayers, here is why we are excited about the iPhone:

The bar is being raised right now for the cellphone industry, and being raised well.
This is the industry that has bent us over for so long, with unusable features, overpriced gadgets that don't deliver on what they promised, and ease of use of a manual lawn-mower.

No, iPhone is not the cure for cancer, but it is making the cell manufacturers and networks change the way they do their business.
After months of being out on the market, the "Chocolate" cellphone will get capability to have songs transfered from the computer. This is not a win for Apple, but a win for the consumer, who without Apple was at the mercy of PHBs and middle management making decisions about how their cellphones should work.

This happened at least one time before... Remember what happened to Exploder once FireFox came out? Oh, well crap, yeah, here's your IE 7 all of a sudden, sorry you had to endure 7 years of exploder 6, no tabs, millions of infections and popups, but we really thought that's what the consumers wanted.

Like I said, the bar is being raised, and it's good to see Nokia, Motorolla and especially the carriers bend over and take it where the sun don't shine from Apple.

Re:Why some of us are excited about iPhone

[Fred Ferrigno]

This is the industry that has bent us over for so long, with unusable features, overpriced gadgets that don't deliver on what they promised, and ease of use of a manual lawn-mower. This is just hilarious. You can't judge if a product delivers on its promises before it's been delivered. And apparently, the solution to expensive gadgets an even more expensive gadget!

Re:Why some of us are excited about iPhone

[sssssss27]

No offense but the iPhone really isn't that great. There is still a lot of stuff it can't do that other PDA phones can. Here is a list from Gizmodo http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/apple/what-the-iphone-d oesnt-have-272571.php:

Songs as Ringtones
Games
Any flash support
Instant Messaging
Picture messages (MMS)
Video recording
Voice recognition or voice dialing
Wireless Bluetooth Stereo Streaming (A2DP)
One-size-fits-all headset jack (May have to buy an adapter for certain headphones)
3G (EV-DO/HSDPA)
GPS
A real keyboard
Removable battery
Expandable Storage
Direct iTunes Music Store Access (Over Wi-Fi or EDGE)

All of those things can be done by the HTC Mogul and I even think the PPC-6700 which has been around for a while now can do most of that. I don't think Apple is trying to push the boundaries or up the bar with the iPhone. I think Apple is trying to do what it always does, make a product that just works and is simple. Multitouch and the visual voicemail seem to be about the only things that it has that nothing else has.

Re:Why some of us are excited about iPhone

[gatzke]

I don't understand the iphone hype, other than the pretty screen and possibly sexy interface.

I have had my treo 650P for a while, and it does what I need. Phone, PDA, MP3, Internet, Word, Excel, PDF, Camera. And I just found a program that allows for stereo bluetooth. The rocker works for navigation and I can thumb type pretty darn well.

You are excited that phones can sync music? Dump MP3s on a SD card and you are ready to go on a Treo. No DRMd itunes requred, and you can pack a few different SD cards.

Want video? You can rip a DVD and play it too. Crappy resolution, but not much worse than the iphone.

They are touting a real browser on the iphone. Do you really want to surf on a 480x320 screen? I don't really like using a 1024x768 screen.

And my new 755p on Verizon is coming out next week. Better camera and mini SD card, no antenna.

Re:Why some of us are excited about iPhone

[nuckin futs]

. I think Apple is trying to do what it always does, make a product that just works and is simple.
I think that basically sums up why people would buy the iphone. The phones you mentioned can probably do everything and more than what the iphone can do, but can it do it so easily that grandma can use it?

Re:Why some of us are excited about iPhone

[sssssss27]

Exactly and it's also why it will be successful.

Re:Why some of us are excited about iPhone

[olddotter]

Yes. I'm not going to go out an buy one day one, but for YEARS I have wanted Apple to get into the cell phone market. The reason is simple, each generation of new cell phones just prove that user interfaces can get worse .

  Every new phone I have gotten has been harder and harder to use. Apple knows how to make a simple user interface. I want that in a phone. And even if I never buy and Apple, because they are in the market others will be forced to think about the user interface. That is a huge win for me.

Re:Why some of us are excited about iPhone

[admactanium]

I don't understand the iphone hype, other than the pretty screen and possibly sexy interface. I have had my treo 650P for a while, and it does what I need. Phone, PDA, MP3, Internet, Word, Excel, PDF, Camera. And I just found a program that allows for stereo bluetooth. The rocker works for navigation and I can thumb type pretty darn well.

and you get the added benefit of being able to take off the battery cover and stick the stylus in the reset slot in the dark by memory because you've become so familiar with it. my treo 700p had to be reset at least 4 times a day. if i did a hard reset to put it back to factory form and lose all my data, it would only crash once a day instead.

You are excited that phones can sync music? Dump MP3s on a SD card and you are ready to go on a Treo. No DRMd itunes requred, and you can pack a few different SD cards.

my 700p would stutter and skip on mp3's after about five seconds. it did this right out of the box so it basically never functioned properly. you can put a 4Gb sd card in it but it still won't have as much space as a 8Gb iphone. the iphone can also play non-drmed music just like every other ipod in existence.

Want video? You can rip a DVD and play it too. Crappy resolution, but not much worse than the iphone.

but it is worse. if the treo had a larger screen than an iphone, i'm sure you'd call the iphone lame for having a smaller screen.

They are touting a real browser on the iphone. Do you really want to surf on a 480x320 screen? I don't really like using a 1024x768 screen.

well, if you want to browse the web on your phone you have limited choices. obviously you just don't like using the web on any phone, but if you do, then having a larger screen makes more sense up to a point. i can't see how this is a negative. why get a smartphone if you just want it to play music and make calls?

And my new 755p on Verizon is coming out next week. Better camera and mini SD card, no antenna.

and the same kludgy, poorly multitasking, ugly operating system as palms have had for how many years now?

i tried to like my treo 700p. i spent a lot of money on it and software for it. it was simply the worse piece of technology i have ever owned. if palm went out of business tomorrow it wouldn't phaze me one bit. they released a product that was defective and basically never admitted it nor fixed it. mine was stolen under stressful circumstances. but even after it was stolen at gunpoint, i was pretty relieved to be rid of the damned thing.

Re:Why some of us are excited about iPhone

[El Gruga]

I am F***ing sick of stupid posts like this one. "Dump MP3's on an SD card..." WTF? Thats NOT what we all want to do - we want our data to be ORGANISED, not 'dumped'. How do you find them on an sd card? Just take a guess that this one - 3765478.mp3 is the track you want? Nice. And for crying out loud - there is NO drm on cd tracks you burn into itunes. NONE. NADA. So stop with the drm, like Apple is some monster forcing you to take DRM up the jacksy. It isnt. Burn your own CD's = NO DRM. The point of the iphone is organised data, music, dvd's etc. And its a good phone. "Better camera" Its a PHONE - 2 mp camera is how much worse than 3 mp on a PHONE! It has WIFI - thats actually very useful on a phone with music and a browser and email..... Buy a zune - its perfect for you.

Re:Why some of us are excited about iPhone

[Tibor the Hun]

You can't judge if a product delivers on its promises before it's been delivered.

You're right, but you know what, David Pogue, and Walt Mossberg did, and they say it does live up to the hype. And since I very much agree with their assesments in general, I'll believe them on this one as well.

The price is not the problem. I'd rather spend 500 bucks and get a phone that's worth 500 bucks, than spend 250 bucks on a phone that drives me nuts with its user interface.
Everything has its price. The polished turds that carriers are selling now are vastly exceeding theirs. They're about to see what happens when a company actually implements common sense in the user interface.

Re:Why some of us are excited about iPhone

[Tibor the Hun]

It's not really about the grandma any more. Grandma doesn't want an iPhone, I'm (pretty) sure. It's the younger, or even middle aged people who would really really like to have a phone that is for once easy to use and is useful as well.

You know what happens when a person buys an Apple computer? They start using iPhoto to organize their digital photos. They start using the iMovie and iDVD to make movies. All of a sudden they do all the things they were supposed to be able to do on their PCs. I know this because my sister and about a half a dozen other people who switched are doing it.
So all of a sudden now, they see their computers as appliances that are actually useful and easy to use too.

Same will happen with the iPhone.

I'm sure that my shitty Motorlla has an address book function in it somewhere. And it charges via a USB port. But you know what, I can't for the life of me figure out if I can move my contacts onto it. Hell I don't even know where the address book on it is! But I only have 2 college degrees, so maybe I don't meet Motorolla's requirements for a cellphone license.

Re:Why some of us are excited about iPhone

[Tibor the Hun]

Well, you're obviously a clever guy so you don't have a problem ripping DVDs (and watching them in crappy resolution) dumping MP3s on SD cards and worrying about antennas.

But you've got to realize that some of us are fucking tired about thinking about SD cards, busses, interconnects, formats, ratios and standards.
I've got a wife and 2 young kids, I don't wanna be dumping MP3s on SD cards. Or heaven forbid try to tell them how to do it. I just want to plug it in and synch it.
Sometimes it's just nice to touch a button and for that button to just do a thing with all the magic happening behind the scenes.

iPhone doesn't claim to have two dozen features, it has what it has, and if it stays true to Apple style it will do them really well.
I know because I rely heavily on iLife to organize and edit my media. The level of integration is hard to explain to someone who's only seen the crap on Windows. About as hard to explain as why the iPhone is so different. It's not about the glass screen and the sexy interface, it's about the fact that that sexy interface allows you to actually use it, in a way that all the other phones have told you you can do, but made you drag MP3s on SD cards to do it.

Tell me, how often do you dump 400 or however many MP3s you need onto your SD card?
How often do you rip and watch DVDs on your phone?

Because if you don't do it, it's as if your phone doesn't either.

Re:Why some of us are excited about iPhone

[0xdeadbeef]

No, iPhone is not the cure for cancer, but it is making the cell manufacturers and networks change the way they do their business.

A device you can't run third-party software on, which must be purchased with an overpriced plan on a two year contract, and despite the gigs of music you may have installed on it, you'll have to pay a separate fee to turn each one into a ringtone?

They're changing who with the what now?

Re:Why some of us are excited about iPhone

[Anonymous Coward]

This is just hilarious. You can't judge if a product delivers on its promises before it's been delivered.

The hilarious part is your inability to grasp what he's saying. And it's already changing the industry.

Re:Why some of us are excited about iPhone

[Paradise Pete]

I think Apple is trying to do what it always does, make a product that just works and is simple.

Which is, as has been made obvious by all the horrible phones, the hard part. A big steaming pile of features is not the right way to measure the usefulness of a tool. But it's the "easy" way. It's very hard to quantify a well designed device. It's much easier and tempting to just make a checklist, despite the fact that it doesn't really serve.

Re:Why some of us are excited about iPhone

[Anonymous Coward]

Repeat after me: you RIP music FROM CDs. You BURN things TO CDs.

Besides, I'm sure SD cards have a file system, which have (dun dun DUN) directories and file names.

Why does your phone need email and a web browser? It's a PHONE.

Re:Why some of us are excited about iPhone

[VGPowerlord]

From what I've heard it takes 6 clicks/pushes/whatever you want to call them to turn the device on and get to where you can actually make a phone call. On something called an "iPhone."

Remind me again how this "sexy interface allows you to actually use it?"

Re:Why some of us are excited about iPhone

[WIAKywbfatw]

I'm curious. If your Treo 700p was faulty "right out of the box" then why didn't you return it for a replacement right away?

Ever consider that some of the other problems that you experienced were at least partially caused by your decision to accept a faulty unit from day one?

I can't say that it would have solved all your problems but, speaking from personal experience - one soft reset every three months or so, and one hard reset a year - and from the evidence offered by others, I can't but help come to the conclusion that yours was not a typical experience.

Nobody ships 100,000s of units without shipping some that aren't perfect out of the box so I guess that you were unlucky enough to have one of those units that should have been returned right away. Why you didn't do that perplexes me.

Re:Why some of us are excited about iPhone

[Weedlekin]

"I don't understand the iphone hype, other than the pretty screen and possibly sexy interface."

I don't understand all the hype about colour bit-mapped graphics displays and mice either, when the only advantage they've got over a traditional teletype terminal is a pretty screen and possibly sexy interface.

Re:Why some of us are excited about iPhone

[stewbacca]

If you are worried about "ringtones" then you probably aren't on Apple's demographic radar anyway. Besides, do you honestly think there won't be an easy way to implement your own sound files? Have you used an iPhone yet? I'm just asking, because of all the rediculous points made about why the iPhone will suck, this has to top my list.

Re:Why some of us are excited about iPhone

[stewbacca]

Please explain your source for these 6 clicks. I'll give you a source where it takes one push to call somebody (apple.com). Having only seen demos and the commercials, I can only think of 4 clicks to call somebody, if the phone is completely in the off configuration. 1-turn the switch on the top to "on", 2-slide your finger to unlock the screen, 3-choose phone, 4-dial.

What you won't see ANYWHERE on the iPhone is confusing drop-down menus, deeply rooted sub-menus, and the hierarchal, linear constraints of nearly all current cell phone offerings. If you can't figure out the iPhone with a few exploratory clicks, or if you get lost in the interface (which is common on every other phone), then you can say it isn't anything new. But having watched all the demos and commercials, it is blatantly obvious that this thing is a no-brainer with the interface.

Re:Why some of us are excited about iPhone

[stewbacca]

SD cards do have a file system just like Windows XP has a good digital video editor (snicker). Just because a "feature" is on the box, doesn't mean it works well and in the case of SD cards, I hope they all simultaneously combust soon. And it is people who like these arcane file systems (//music452.eng/42.pdx/;akljf/830a/384sljkdf.mp3) that love to hate Apple. Good on you.

Re:Why some of us are excited about iPhone

[stewbacca]

I'm curious. If your Treo 700p was faulty "right out of the box" then why didn't you return it for a replacement right away?

Why would he want to replace something that is poorly designed with the same thing? It isn't a defective product, it is just a horrible product. He could have returned it for a refund I suppose, but he gave it the benefit of the doubt and kept adding stuff to make it better.

Re:Why some of us are excited about iPhone

[Tibor the Hun]

Quit posting out of your ass.

Re:Why some of us are excited about iPhone

[0xdeadbeef]

If you are worried about "ringtones" then you probably aren't on Apple's demographic radar anyway.

I would assume that their demographic cares very much about ringtones, it's the sort of mindless fashion that appeals Apple zealots.

Actually, I point that out because it is the most ridiculous feature to surface about the iPhone. For a computer running Mac OS X, this is as absurd as Microsoft charging you money to change desktop background or the startup sound.

Re:Why some of us are excited about iPhone

[imputor]

the PPC-6700 which has been around for a while now can do most of that. Sorry, but I have the PPC-6700 and it came with the WORST case of buyer's remorse that I have ever had on ANY gadget in the history of me buying gadgets. It's a piece of shit, and if I hadn't bought it and been locked into Verizon for another 2 years (2 weeks before the iPhone was announced), I would be in line for an iPhone right now. Have you ever tried browsing the web on a PPC-6700 and on Verizon's so-called superior network? Fuck it takes 3 minutes to load any decent website. Everyone keeps saying "all these existing phones already do all this stuff" but they do it all HALF-ASSED and make it a complete nightmare to try and accomplish anything. Yeah my PPC-6700 has a lot of features that the iPhone doesn't, but NONE OF THOSE FEATURES WORK HOW THEY SHOULD. So what's the fucking point of even putting those shitty features in? So you can have a list of features that is longer than the iPhone's? Please.

The iPhone is for people like me who are tired of getting fucked in the ass by the phone companies and their providers. Even if iPhone is a flop, at least the competition has been put on notice, and we'll see that trickle down to the rest of us. Thank you Apple for throwing the industry a life preserver.

Re:Why some of us are excited about iPhone

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm sure that my shitty Motorlla has an address book function in it somewhere. And it charges via a USB port. But you know what, I can't for the life of me figure out if I can move my contacts onto it. Hell I don't even know where the address book on it is! But I only have 2 college degrees, so maybe I don't meet Motorolla's requirements for a cellphone license.

Yeah, from the front screen you press down to select the icon that looks like an address book.

Hell, it even syncs with my Mac. That took like a few minutes to set up.

Usually things are simple when you actually get down to doing something about them. I mean, you have used this phone haven't you? Seem the menu of options, the "Contacts" entry?

Re:Why some of us are excited about iPhone

[WIAKywbfatw]

Are you telling me that if you bought a new anything (phone, notebook PC, TV, whatever) and you noticed from day one that it was faulty that you think that it would be better to persevere with a sub-par unit than it would be to call the manufacturer and have them replace it with a brand new unit that works properly?

If you answered "yes" then, sorry, but to me and most observers your logic is flawed.

In the case of this guy and his Treo 700p, if you read the post that he made he clearly states that he so wanted it to work, etc. It just amazes me that he didn't ask for his unit to be replaced if it was clearly faulty when he bought it.

Re:Why some of us are excited about iPhone

[timmyf2371]

What's wrong with dumping a load of MP3s onto an SD card? Every Nokia S60 smartphone I've used over the last 24 months has included the Nokia music player, which sorts music tracks by album, artist, etc.

Re:Why some of us are excited about iPhone

[gatzke]

I have a wife and two young kids too. I don't rip DVDs, but I do occasionally copy a few hundred MBs of MP3s onto a SD card to take on the plane. Laptop has a SD card, it is as easy as select, copy, paste.

I don't have unlimited video, but my wife gets it on her Q. We set up a orb.com box at home and she can stream recorded and live video to her phone to entertain the kids.

And I don't rip DVDs for my phone because I cracked the screen and I have been waiting for the 755 to come out. Maybe I will figure it out one day...

Re:Why some of us are excited about iPhone

[gatzke]

My 650 is pretty solid. A reset per month generally. Sounds like the 700 was a dog for you, but the 755 reviews appear pretty decent.

Lots of third party software is probably your problem, although sounds like you had problems with MP3s out of the box, so I don't know. Maybe Jobs has a point, don't let users install software, then they have less to complain about.

The new blackberry that will bluetooth to a laptop is a nice feature, too bad most phones don't unlock that feature.

I need a PDA with datebook and contact list, plus a crappy phone / video camera is nice to have. Sometimes a simple text editor is nice too, so a smartphone is nice. Swapping out batteries is a nice feature, as well as removable media. I just don't see the iphone hype yet. Maybe it will be like my Wii, after you use it you have to have it...

Re:Why some of us are excited about iPhone

[admactanium]

In the case of this guy and his Treo 700p, if you read the post that he made he clearly states that he so wanted it to work, etc. It just amazes me that he didn't ask for his unit to be replaced if it was clearly faulty when he bought it.

because there was always a firmware update "just around the corner". so rather than return something which i had already bought a lot of peripherals and software for, i figured palm would make it right. after all, it was a brand new device. logic would dictate that any company that is still in business after all those years would have the ability to fix the devices they make with a firmware update. however, the issue turned out to be, from the rumors, that palm had just decided to use very slow and cheap ram in the 700p so there was really nothing they could do to fix it. i've compared the 700p to two 650ps. one of my brother's and one from my friend and the 650 was drastically faster in nearly all functions. the 700p could take up to 4 seconds just to switch applications, eg from the web browser to the phone. i came to know the treo as the "white screen of wait".

so yes, it didn't work right out of the box, but i had already invested money in it and i thought it could be fixed. palm barely even acknowledged the problem then i believe they said they were "working on a fix" that never materialized.

Re:Why some of us are excited about iPhone

[admactanium]

the 650s i've seen were better than my 700. but i wouldn't call any of them reliable. in fact, my brother just woke up late yesterday. i was pissed because we had errands to do all day. turns out his 650 had crashed overnight and since he uses it as his alarm clock, he overslept. also, he couldn't hear me calling. of course, he got an iphone today. haha.

i might have just gotten the dog of the models, but the fact that palm would release a device like the 700p with known defects is enough for me to write them off forever.

Re:Will it

[Anonymous Coward]

Man (Eric Idle): You sit here, dear.

Wife (Graham Chapman in drag): All right.

Man (to Waitress): Morning!

Waitress (Terry Jones, in drag as a bit of a rat-bag): Morning!

Man: Well, what've you got?

Waitress: Well, there's egg and bacon; egg sausage and bacon; egg and iPhone; egg bacon and iPhone; egg bacon sausage and iPhone; iPhone bacon sausage and iPhone; iPhone egg iPhone iPhone bacon and iPhone; iPhone sausage iPhone iPhone bacon iPhone tomato and iPhone;

Vikings (starting to chant): iPhone iPhone iPhone iPhone...

Waitress: ...iPhone iPhone iPhone egg and iPhone; iPhone iPhone iPhone iPhone iPhone iPhone baked beans iPhone iPhone iPhone...

Vikings (singing): iPhone! Lovely iPhone! Lovely iPhone! ... Eh you get the idea

I am iPhone Hear Me ROAR !!

[Anonymous Coward]

I am iPhone, hear me roar
In numbers too big to ignore
And I know too much to go back an' pretend
'cause I've heard it all before
And I've been down there on the floor
No one's ever gonna keep me down again

CHORUS
Oh yes I am wise
But it's wisdom born of pain
Yes, I've paid the price
But look how much I gained
If I have to, I can do anything
I am strong (strong)
I am invincible (invincible)
I am iPhone

You can bend but never break me
'cause it only serves to make me
More determined to achieve my final goal
And I come back even stronger
Not a novice any longer
'cause you've deepened the conviction in my soul

CHORUS

I am iPhone watch me grow
See me standing toe to toe
As I spread my lovin' arms across the land
But I'm still an embryo
With a long long way to go
Until I make my brother understand

Oh yes I am wise
But it's wisdom born of pain
Yes, I've paid the price
But look how much I gained
If I have to I can face anything
I am strong (strong)
I am invincible (invincible)
I am iPhone
Oh, I am iPhone
I am invincible
I am strong

FADE
I am iPhone
I am invincible
I am strong
I am iPhone

How many more failure lists?

[x1n933k]

Okay. Enough is enough already, there a failure list at every launch for Apple that say the same things and list the same gadgets. Terrible article.

[J]

Re:How many more failure lists?

[porcupine8]

Nah, that's the first time I've ever heard anyone list the iMac as a failure. I guess the list isn't long enough if you don't want to go back to the Lisa...

Re:How many more failure lists?

[soft_guy]

Not only that, but most of these failures happened on John Sculley's watch and also they don't list Apple's first and most spectacular failure: the Apple ///. So, the article just proves that the author didn't do adequate research and is an ignorant fucktard.

Re:How many more failure lists?

[stewbacca]

It is actually a ploy by the hat industry. With every prediction of Apple failure, many hats are eaten.

iphone is the new paris hilton

[kennylogins]

NM

All this news, but...

[ivan256]

...still no word on the price for the service. Either AT&T is being clinically stupid (are people going to wait in line to find out they can't afford the plan?), or they know that as soon as the plan price is announced all those would-be line waiters will stay home.

Tell us how much the damned thing costs already!

Re:All this news, but...

[damian cosmas]

...or all that has already been released.

http://www.apple.com/iphone/easysetup/rateplans.ht ml

What a waste of mod points!

Re:All this news, but...

[timholman]

Tell us how much the damned thing costs already!

Clearly you weren't reading Slashdot yesterday!

http://hardware.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/06/ 26/1330208

Re:All this news, but...

[sgb235]

The Apple splash page has a link to the plans. http://www.apple.com/iphone/easysetup/rateplans.ht ml

Re:All this news, but...

[narf]

You mean like this?

So, what about car connectors?

[Basilius]

> 1. The iPhone won't work as a phone when docked into speakers.

I own a Scion xB, and it's got an iPod jack. (not an Aux jack - it's got one of those too - but one that plugs into the dataport.)

Will it still work as a phone if I've got it plugged into the Scion?

Re:So, what about car connectors?

[stewbacca]

I'm not sure about the iPod jack, but you could use the aux line. The iPhone demo clearly shows that when using the aux line for the iPod portion, incoming phone calls duck the music low enough for you to hear the ringing, and then you can answer the phone. The iPod stops when you answer, and starts where it left off when you hang up. Maybe an inconvenience, in the fact you can't be charging your phone if you are expecting to use your phone, but still, it is a reasonable work-around. In my ghetto setup, I could charge the phone with my lighter and use the iPod and phone simultaneously through the aux in line on my stereo. Somebody (Alpine, probably) will make an in dash or behind the dash adapter that will circumvent this issue.

How it does not work: Lame and broken article

[EmbeddedJanitor]

Having designed touch screen interfaces for more than 15 years now, I must say that the description of how a resistive touch screen works is pretty broken. These devices do not measure resistance nor current. They measure changing voltage.

That leads me to suspect that their description of how the iphone multitouch works is also broken too.

Re:How it does not work: Lame and broken article

[gyrogeerloose]

The iPhone touch screen uses capacitance rather than resistance. It's the same technique that Apple uses on it's laptop touch pads, which can sense whether you've got one or two fingers on them.

Re:How it does not work: Lame and broken article

[Anonymous Coward]

Can it sense how many fingers I am holding up now?

Re:How it does not work: Lame and broken article

[Anonymous Coward]

Can it sense how many fingers I am holding up now?

Not only can it do that, it can sense where you've got your thumb...

iPerbole:

[damian cosmas]

"The hype surrounding any product Apple unveils"

Re:Will it

[nlitement]

No! The question is: "will it run Linux?", you insensitive clod!

What about the jPhone?

[Roblimo]

iPhone? Who cares about the iPhone, already? I want a jPhone, if only for the Schnapps!

VLAD FARTED SO HARD THAT HE CRIED

[Anonymous Coward]

And the winner of the Biggest, Dumbest, Poorest Fuck in Existence........ VLAD!!!!!

Re:Will it

[earnest murderer]

Don't forget the obligitory release day stories... I spiked it like a football and it scratched, what a POS! EDGE netwrok overrun by too much iPhone traffiic. iPhone exclusive Flicr group. Dropped my iPhone in the toilet, it still works. Dropped my iPhone in the toilet, it doesn't work. Lifehacker will have their 10 secret features of the iPhone article. Since no one reads manuals no one will notice that it's basically the getting started guide in HTML. Gizmodo... iPhone sells out in one day, geeks enraged. macroumors... Apple iPhone 2.0 sports 3g, 16GB storage and 3rd party apps for $299. Engadget... iPhone DOA return rate unprecidented. And last but not least... IT BLENDS!!!

SSH

[SCHecklerX]

putty is available on symbian. Will the iphone have anything as useful?

Re:SSH

[appleprophet]

No, but SSH is something that can easily be emulated using AJAX and a third party "application" will be available shortly.

Re:SSH

[Anonymous Coward]

I read third party apps werent available?

Re:SSH

[Anonymous Coward]

Uhh, yeah, if you send the requests through someone elses' server, which isn't exactly ssh.

Re:SSH

[appleprophet]

That's exactly what I said. You can't have a real SSH server, but it can be emulated in Safari.

Re:SSH

[stefanb]

putty is available on symbian. Will the iphone have anything as useful? AjaxTerm should be running on the iPhone.

Re:SSH

[managementboy]

you truly made my day!!!

Service prices have been announced

[rufusdufus]

The service prices were on Apples website yesterday, and I even saw them on CNN! Here is an article about them.

Re:Will it

[ruiner13]

Don't forget the stories about people saying it is the best ipod ever because now they can put it down their pants and call themselves and REALLY love the thing. Those will mostly be posted on MySpace by 30 year olds in their parent's basement.

Is rtsp the real web?

[rufusdufus]

Notice there is exactly one audio application listed, youtube. Go to that site and notice it doesn't work on the desktop. I'm not sure this can be considered the 'real' web they advertise since it uses rtsp instead of http/ajax.

And my question is, does the iPhone support any audio standards in its browser? Will anybody but youtube be able to make audio applications? It looks suspiciously like the answer may be 'no'

Re:Is rtsp the real web?

[appleprophet]

It has been confirmed that the iPhone can stream audio and video using the H.264 codec through Safari.

Also it won't

[Anonymous Coward]

o Make the tea
o Make you more attractive to women
o Help you acheive World Peace

iPad

[Doc Ruby]

If I have my own software that implements a better onscreen keyboard than the default iPhone one, like my version of T9, how would I code it and deliver it to iPhones so it overrides the builtin one (at the user's option, of course)?

Re:iPad

[midkay]

"how would I code it and deliver it to iPhones so it overrides the builtin one (at the user's option, of course)?"

You wouldn't.

There's no SDK, and Apple's said they won't deliver one. All you can do as far as custom code is run Web 2.0 apps through Safari.

Re:iPad

[Doc Ruby]

You don't need an SDK to code for a platform. All you need is the API definitions, a compiler/linker and a method for installing the executables.

Apple originally said "no 3rd Party apps" but then backpedaled to just "no SDK (yet)". Jobs says 3rd party apps will be a normal part of the iPhone ecosystem once they've got "security" worked out. Which could mean Java, could mean signed apps. But it does mean that someone will crack whatever's keeping them out before Apple allows it.

Probably someone a Slashdotter knows.

So I'm not asking for a summary of Apple's PR. I'm asking for a hacker, until Apple gives me an easy way.

Re:iPad

[midkay]

Apologies if I misunderstood. I watched the WWDC '07 presentation and Jobs' talk about the SDK/Web apps. He launched a few of these from the browser itself (through the bookmarks list) and said they could access the built-in keyboard if necessary. He never demonstrated or implied that such apps could be launched through the homescreen or anywhere else than Safari, and he never said or implied that they could "stick" to the UI (as in, overwrite the default keypad or something).

The impression I got was that these apps must be launched through the browser itself, and must stay contained within the browser. That's all he showed and he never said otherwise.

Tethering.

[damacus]

Tethering is the one feature missing which will likely be the dealbreaker for me. I'll certainly be at the store Friday to ask them about it, and I'd pay extra for it, even if that means the $40 PDA plan on top of the $40 voice package. Without that capability, though, the I dare say the iPhone isn't the internet in my pocket, but merely a looking-glass through which I may observe only a priviledged few ports, even if in splendor. The iPhone is still tempting, though. Mail.app, iCal and Addressbook are apps I use often and love. Also, a widescreen iPod.. it would certainly be a step up from my 5GB 1st gen... and the price is great.

Aside from the iPhone, I've been shopping lately, and my other options are the AT&T 8525 ($40 voice + $40 pda personal max) or through T-Mobile the WM6 Wing with 600/unlim $40 + $30 total inet + $5 400 SMS/MMS. All phones support wifi. I know the 8525 and Wing can be tethered. The 8525 comes with WM5, but can be upgraded in Q3 2007.

I looked at Sprint with the Treo 755p ($350) with a $65 total plan, but I've heard bad things about Sprint PCS harassment, support, and poor coverage. I also looked into Verizon, but they seemed to be either Q or Blackberry, which uncompetitive pricing.

So, that's where I am. Choices...

Re:Tethering.

[abes]

Do you know as a fact that tethering is out for a fact, or are you just speculating? The iPhone can use bluetooth devices, so in theory it should be possible, though it might involve Apple providing an interface to do so..

Re:Tethering.

[damacus]

I do not know for a fact. Apple has been silent on this. AT&T's plans don't seem to suggest it (comparing smartphone to pda plans' prices). Most of the fanatical macrumors community doesn't seem to think so. And without proof, I don't assume they do, either. That's why I'll be going in to ask Friday assuming its not been confirmed by that point. If its included, or an available option, that's excellent, and I'll buy an 8G iPhone and sign a contract.

Otherwise, I already know where I'm looking next.

Anyway, I agree, that I'd really like to see the bluetooth advertised device services for the iPhone. Maybe I'll take my powerbook and scan bluetooth in the parking lot before I go in... see if they list dialup networking and serial ports before I go in. :)

Re:Tethering.

[abes]

Well, the question has been answered by Pogue:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/28/technology/circu its/28pogue.html?ex=1340683200&en=6db6ecaa7a2c97d0 &ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss

so no, at least not until Apple updates their software.

Re:Will it

[jdray]

I am in ur iPhone, diggin thru ur data!

No 3G...$600

[caller9]

Are people seriously going to pay $500-600 for a non-3G phone? Sure you get a video iPod in the deal....with 4GB or 8GB. An 80GB Video iPod you can hook up to a TV to watch costs ~$350.

Back to the only point that matters. Why would anyone buy a $600 phone with no GPS and an EDGE data connection? Give it a few months when they release the 3G version already and somebody go to the store and round up these losers camped out in front and sterilize them.

Aspersions, etc.

Re:No 3G...$600

[Anonymous Coward]

Plus, it doesn't have an external keyboard with a fully functional word processor app so I can be the first person to write a novel on it.

Begin spoon-clanging
Well, *I*, the most important person in the Universe, will not waste MY money, MY time and MY beautific self on this! And I shall make sweeping announcements about what a failure this product will be, how the lemmings will be disappointed and MY business forecasting skills will go unabated. Yet again!

End spoon-clanging

Re:No 3G...$600

[Anonymous Coward]

Does the quote "No wireless. Less space than a Nomad. Lame." mean anything to you?

If it at least rings a bell, let's rephrase that: "No 3G. Less space than an iPod. Lame."

Re:No 3G...$600

[stewbacca]

Why would anyone buy a $600 phone with no GPS and an EDGE data connection?

Did you not notice the Wifi? Perhaps for anyone interested in a nicely designed phone/iPod/camera/internet device won't mind spending $500+ for such a device, especially when Wifi is prevalent in the area where they live?

It is a shame about all these "losers" and their inability to be as intelligent as you obviously are. Heres a clue--if you don't like it, don't buy it. Why do you feel compelled to go tell everyone else NOT to buy one?

Re:No 3G...$600

[vimh42]

That's why I want an 80gig video iPod with a touch screen and wifi capability. Forget the phone. And since cell network security wouldn't be an issue at that point, we could get a full SDK. Now that would be sweet.

Re:Googledot

[Anonymous Coward]

Thanks at least for combining all these iPhone links into ONE story.

the in between?

[abes]

All the reviews were done to people who are known to be pro-Apple, which isn't surprising, because why would Apple send a product to be reviewed by someone who will trash it. Strangely (or not really, actually) the iPhone has become rather polarized. It certainly won't fit everyone's need or style. Just like some people prefer Windows or Linux to OS X.

The new interface (multi-touch) intrigues me. Maybe it works well, maybe it completely sucks. Maybe they just need a bigger screen to make it really work well. I'm not saying there is necessarily a parallel, but the controversy with the new input style is reminiscent of the DS. Before it came out many people slammed it for being nothing more that a GBA with two screens. And why would you want a touch screen for games? So, maybe it turns out that multi-touch works no miracles, and we end up with an overpriced iPod that works okay as a phone.

I think the true potential of the phone won't be realized until 3rd party apps start being released. I *really* hope an SDK gets released. I would love to develop my own apps for it. At this point, I would settle for a scripting language (Python anyone?), which actually save Apple from security issues, and wouldn't be too hard to implement (PyObjC provides a Python -> Cocoa bridge .. or perhaps just use Applescript, since Apple tends to put hooks in all their apps anyways).

I have yet tried a Helio (it's main comparison), but my general feeling of the cell phone market is that generally it sucks. So it's not hard to imagine how the iPhone will be generally better than what you see currently out there. I also think that it's in the end a *good* idea to pay full price for our phones. It stops that telcos from directly determining what our phones can or can't do. So it really is to everyone's advantage (even if you don't want one) for the iPhone to do well. Unless you just want a cheap phone that doesn't do much. Which is reasonable (though not my preference).

So, I'm planning on getting one. I don't expect it to change my life. Especially since there isn't much out there for it right now, I'll play with it for a couple hours, and then it will carried around like any other cell phone. Where it will be different, and what I'm excited about is that walking around NYC will become much much nicer, as I'll always have a map with me. Taking the subway will become much much easier, as I can just pull up the MTA's map (yes, I had the maps on my old iPod, but they weren't really usable). Or those times I need to check if I'm buying the right product at a store. Or just when I need to check my email and I'm away from my computer.

I know other cell phones can do all that. None that I ever owned, but I know they're out there. The question is how well. I've played with other people's blackberrys, and at least based off of those, not very. So, as usual, with many of Apple's products, it might not change the direction the world is going, but it will be well implemented, and work simply. And when dealing with mobiles, interface is really important.

One general question .. does anyone else have general experience with 2.5G? I know all the reviews complain about how slow it was in comparison to 3G, but I never used 3G. I have used 56K, and while sluggish, it was always good enough for pulling up web pages. Also, is the slowness in part just AT&T's current network? If they expand their coverage, and fatten the pipes, is there a chance it will get faster? Or is it simple a matter of EDGE sucking hard?

History repeats itself.

[Daikiki]

No 3G, less memory than an iPod. Lame.

Re:History repeats itself.

[stewbacca]

Hehe, that made my day! Maybe you can change your joke to , "No 3G, less memory than the guy in the other thread claims to have in his removable flash memory card phone". Let's not forget "Too expensive".

Limited SMS vs. "unlimited" network access?

[g0at]

My understanding is that the various service plans include a ceiling on text messaging, but "unlimited" internet usage. Given that an SMS message takes a mere handful of bytes, where is the logic in this? What will prevent people from using a web- (or applet-) based alternative for communicating text in a less-restricted and more-versatile manner?

I have been wondering this since the pricing announcement, but I haven't seen it addressed anywhere.

-b

Re:Limited SMS vs. "unlimited" network access?

[Tibor the Hun]

Ironically, AT&Ts execs with their complete lack of understanding of the intertubes had not realized that the iPhone would go to the particualr tube that lets it do that, and therefore have completely skipped over the issue.

Re:Limited SMS vs. "unlimited" network access?

[Anonymous Coward]

$$$. Unlimited text messaging would allow rich iPhone users to communicate rent-free with far too many people. Not very many people have internet chat enabled cell phones, but virtually every cell phone can receive a text message.

Re:Limited SMS vs. "unlimited" network access?

[g0at]

Yeah, and virtually every cell service provides a form on their web site for sending an SMS message to any of their subscribers.

-b

Re:Limited SMS vs. "unlimited" network access?

[Anonymous Coward]

True, but you don't have access to that website when you're not at your PC (assuming you're like most people and don't have an internet enabled cell phone).

Re:Limited SMS vs. "unlimited" network access?

[g0at]

I think we are misunderstanding each other.

The limit on the iPhone plans is the number of outgoing messages. My point is that to circumvent this, all one need to is visit the recipient's provider's web site, and send them the message that way. The recipient is still free to send a regular SMS back to the iPhone.

-ben

iPhone Pessimist

[imstanny]

http://greenarrowinvestments.com/trendsetters.aspx

I love this iPhone!

[El Gruga]

(1) It enrages the ubuntu crowd - no itunes! LOL!
(2) It enrages the Windows crowd - too easy to operate and it actually works - they hate that!
(3) Its free publicity for Apple - how that makes people angry - maybe we should tax Apple for getting free publicity.
(4) Paris Hilton will get one and have sex with it.
(5) some are complaining about DRM on Itunes - wow thats a stretch, seeing as how there is NO drm on your own CDs ripped into iTunes....
(6) It definitely will improve your love life - and that might be a reason for the Linux crowd to buy two or three each.
(7) It WILL work with M$ Exchange server - how annoying that must be to Bill Gates and his legions of idiot followers - yes, thats you, Dwayne.....
(8) it will force other cell phone makers to STOP SELLING CRAP like they have been for the last decade - and thats worth a lot.
(9) it wont be in Canada soon, and when it does it will be horribly expensive - but I will still buy one.
(10) It WILL be UNLOCKED and then we can all have fun - so relax Geeks, you'll soon be seeing teardowns and hacks and all the rest.

Re:I love this iPhone!

[stewbacca]

(4) Paris Hilton will get one and have sex with it.

Please please plese tell me there will be a video of this available...

Re:I love this iPhone!

[Anonymous Coward]

(4) Paris Hilton will get one and have sex with it.

Please please plese tell me there will be a video of this available... Nope, only pictures. The iPhone doesn't take videos, doncha know...

I wish I could do this.

[mattgreen]

1. Camp out for iPhone in an area with a LOT of people waiting. Must be first in line.
2. Buy iPhone at 6PM.
3. Smash it on the pavement in front of everyone.
4. Post video on website and make a bazillion dollars.

Re:I wish I could do this.

[Anonymous Coward]

What a pathetic demonstration that would be.

Activate it first :-)

Re:I wish I could do this.

[Officer Friendly]

Maybe you can't, but you can help these folks do it:

http://www.smashmyiphone.com/

It appears they're about $498 short of their goal.

Complete list of iPhone Apps and widgets

[Chris MFM]

I know, there's no definition of what this is yet. I like this list. Looks good, complete with categories and ratings and it has the most details on widgets. http://iphonewidgetlist.com/

AT&T Math? Misleading advertising?

[Mia'cova]

From AT&T's description of their $20/month 'unlimited' (excludes international/roaming) SMS texting plan:

Messaging Unlimited
You have the freedom to message any way to any one - text, picture, video and IM - without worrying what each message costs. That means every message counts the same. You can send and receive ANY combination of messages. Want to send all picture messages? No problem. All IMs? Go ahead and chat away - send and receive messages for less than pennies per day! What does "less than pennies per day" mean? What does that even mean?!! Okay, when I think "pennies," I don't think 66 of them. At that point, I think we're talking "quarters per day" not "less than pennies per day." Is $0.99/min roaming "pennies per minute?"

Added to the fact that the links throughout their rates site keep casually dumping you back to voice-plan information as you navigate between sections and such, they're really pissing me off by making information as hard as possible to find AND read. Anything that doesn't read like it came from a lawyer may as well be an outright lie it's so misleading.

I can't wait to get charged for incoming messages every weekend while roaming in Canada.. at least with WiFi I can finally dodge data-rate raping (otherwise 50kb/$1, perhaps $1-2 per page view these days! YouTube? I'm scared it'll unlock and I'll bump the icon in my pocket..)

When AT&T coughs up their next north america plan, I damned well better be able to switch to it. If I can't, that'd be a deal-breaker.

And yes, I use all the skype like tricks whenever possible... too bad I can't do wifi+skype on the iphone. But it's their misleading advertising I want to bring up rather than starting a skype/whatever thread.

Oh well, hopefully only another few years of this bullshit until we're able to get all this for free wherever an internet connection is available. I suppose we've all been thinking that for a while..

Oh well. I'll give it a shot on friday and if the new shinyness isn't truly worth the massive massive additional cost, I will be returning this phone.

Re:AT&T Math? Misleading advertising?

[stewbacca]

Can you explain why you can't do skype+wireless? I'm curious, because I'm counting on every limitation the iPhone supposedly has to be easily circumventable via the built in browser and web-apps. Thanks.

Re:AT&T Math? Misleading advertising?

[Mia'cova]

Nothing of the level of skype is technically possible with the developer support they've offered. You won't be able to work around it. The web-apps they're supporting are little more than very basic web pages. You don't even get javascript support (so no AJAX apps), let alone anything a little more sophisticated like flash. They've made very big talk out of an undisclosed programming interfaces they've suggested. This will allow access to some information like your address book. These will in no way, shape, or form add sophisticated support. You CAN NOT run custom code on the iphone, period. You can't even get the iphone itself to count to ten (outside of their basic calculator app, heh). Seriously. In this kind of server-side webapp model, with nothing more than html/css, anything like skype, an MSN client, live maps, etc is entirely out of the question.

My opinion is that there's an extremely good chance this is part of Apple's contract/business plan with AT&T. They've locked it down like crazy to force you into paying significantly high fees for things like SMS. Do NOT expect to be able to use MSN/AIM/Skype/ANYTHING with the iphone. You're guaranteed to be disappointed until a time when Apple changes their mind and contract obligations are fulfilled. AT&T won't budge an inch on this either. They've already signed Apple for five years. At this point, Apple's motivation behind rich-application support is extremely suspect. We can't hope/assume they'll all of a sudden just "change their mind." Their strong-willed stance on this suggests there is no change in sight. Be smart and don't assume things will be rosey. It's not a phone that will save you money down the road. It will push your monthly bills up, especially with international/roaming issues like those I'm expecting. I'll have a windows mobile handset for travel. Those, at least, can be picked up on the cheap from ebay easily enough.

Consider yourself warned ;)

But by all means, expect all the built in stuff to work wonderfully. YouTube/web will be slow on edge but otherwise I completely expect an as-advertised performer. Those who haven't geeked-out with other smart-phones just won't know what they're missing. We're a small crowd (and they intend to keep things that way!).

Re:AT&T Math? Misleading advertising?

[the_wesman]

Is $0.99/min roaming "pennies per minute?"

ha - it's like when advertisers say "X is only a fraction of the price of Y!" .... well, 9999999/2 is a fraction ;)

-w

ROKR sucked, but SLVR is decent

[socsoc]

The article mentions that the ROKR was a bust, which is true, but I have a SLVR L7 with iTunes (modded to remove the 100 song limit) and a one gig microsd card... there was nothing wrong with Apple's previous ventures into the cell phone industry. Why would I need to buy songs over the cellular network when I could buy them from iTunes on my pc and then sync them automatically using iTunes? Of course the iPhone will have a much better ui and be easier to use, but it's not fair to claim all their previous cell phone partnerships with Moto were useless.

partly revolutionary

[SethJohnson]

I am 100% as enthused as you over the iPhone. I would buy one day-one if I were in a better financial situation.

I agree with your assertion that they have forced change on the cellphone industry. Random access voicemail is huge. I want an iPhone simply so I can listen to whichever voicemail message I want rather than having to painfully navigate voice menus that burn up my minutes. But don't think Apple is dictating EVERYTHING to AT&T. I'm not sure, but I think I read that ringtones are still a charge to add to the iPhone. Also, the data plan might be unlimited, but access to YouTube content is limited. Probably to protect bandwidth on the EDGE network. Apple also has to play nice with AT&T in terms of the applications allowed to run on the phone. It would be quite a poke in the eye if Apple allowed 3rd party IM and VOIP apps to circumvent the meat of AT&T's profit in these plans.

Well, I just wanted to say that Apple isn't fully turning the cellphone industry upside down. It's still a necessary compromise.

Seth

Yawn at Palo Alto Apple store

[Animats]

I just went past the Apple store in Palo Alto. Nobody waiting in line. Not even much traffic. Big mockup iPhone displays in store windows playing canned demo.

People here aren't buying into the hype. And this is a place where people can afford the thing.

Re:Yawn at Palo Alto Apple store

[Animats]

Ah, the Apple fanboys or flacks are on duty.

Misleading: I don't see any "applications" here.

[argent]

These are web applets with iPhone-style looks, not "applications" in any meaningful sense. You might as well call PQA's "palm applications", or call mobile-compatible web pages "Pocket PC applications".

(yes, I know The Steve is claiming that this is an "API" for the iPhone, but he's being misleading too)

Sample size

[SuperKendall]

Anyone who have watched the trailers for Pirates of the Caribbean: At World's End can tell you that that is an awesome movie.

Why? I sure wasn't drawn in my that trailer.

Furthermore, you are basing results on too small a sample size (1). With Apple, you have longer term proof that Apple is capible of good design in consumer electronics, even outside of multiple iterations of iPods.

Ah yes, the hater talking points

[SuperKendall]

There is still a lot of stuff it can't do that other PDA phones can.

And then you go to list EVERY feature from EVERY other smartphone, to compare against ONE device. Pick an exact device with all those features, or even a good subset, and then let us compare against your real world device insted of UberPhone.

Re:Ah yes, the hater talking points

[sssssss27]

Perhaps you missed the part where I said, "All of those things can be done by the HTC Mogul..." Well actually the HTC Mogul can't directly access iTunes but it can directly access the Sprint Music Store. I don't hate the iPhone, I just don't think it's the second coming. It's a great product it really is, just don't give it more credit than it deserves.

Re:Ah yes, the hater talking points

[SuperKendall]

I don't hate the iPhone, I just don't think it's the second coming. It's a great product it really is, just don't give it more credit than it deserves.

Fine - also don't give it less and dismiss it just because it doesn't offer every feature under the sun. The UI is pretty interesting and different, even if it lacks some other features phones currently offer, and there is value there that the haters seem to want desperately to overlook.

Or your own

[SuperKendall]

If it's open source, and runs over SSL, and can be deployed to your own server it should work just fine and be secure.

About twice as fast as 56k

[SuperKendall]

EDGE is generally about twice as fast as dialup was - I used it for a few years with a Sony Ericcson as a modem for the laptop. I found it tolerable, though you wouldn't do many media rich things - google maps shoudl be fine, though you might go lighter on the satellite view.

Re:About twice as fast as 56k

[mgabrys_sf]

I heard there was two speeds to EDGE. One is being lamented as slow - and other more tolerable. Is the 2x 56k the slow or the faster rate?

I'm more about range of the network. The 3G maps I've seen to date are - um - really limiting.
No access is worse than slow access to me - call me crazy. Plus when I'm not traveling I'm surrounded by WiFi.

Re:About twice as fast as 56k

[SuperKendall]

I feel exactly the same way about the range, those 3G maps are actually more deceiving than not as I've heard coverage is even spotty in the parts that have them.

I am not 100% sure but I think I was talking about the slower speeds, since my experience with EDGE was mostly in the western states where even just cell phone coverage at all might be gone depending on what side roads you take.

the iMac craze

[fishboy]

Good lord, the article about Apple flops mentions the iMac as a failure, even though the original series was the best-selling desktop computer of all time and basically heralded an age of all-in-one computers. He even states "iMac, great computer, but when was the last time you saw one? That craze died pretty fast" For chrissakes they still make the bloody things. Yeah, yeah, he was talking about the original ones, but for crying out loud, that was more than five years ago. The craze died out because they discontinued that model. Idiot.

Re:the iMac craze

[stewbacca]

Yeah, a memento mori is probably the worst article I've read in awhile. Talk about living in an alternate universe (and getting paid to write about what you don't know!). Although the first mighty mouse has only been released lately, I've been using 2,4,8 whatever-button mouses on Macs since, what, OS 7.6, circa 1995? Hell it might have been even earlier than that. I don't buy Macs for the bundled mouse. Nor do I buy PCs for the mouse that they come with. Logitech makes some pretty nice input devices for around $50 that work with Macs (on a couple of times even better on my Mac, as my PC had problems identifying the USB port back in the early days of PC and USB).

The ROKR? That's all you got? Come on, any moron can see that that is a Motorola phone with a weak attempt to paint an Apple logo on the side. It probably had more to do with the Apple/Motorola fall out and tying up any loose business ends before they cut ties with each other.

When is the last time you've seen an iMac? That question alone should get the author fired. Well, I'm typing on a 20" Intel iMac as we speak. It is my first iMac, because I never saw the allure of a transparent bowling ball on my desktop, nor a white platic lamp. Also, it is only as of recently that computers have slowed down enough for me to be comfortable with an all-in-one. I'm still cruising with a 1999 G4 and have never upgraded anything (other than a cpu speed bump up to 800 from 350). Why pay for the "upgradability" if my recent past shows I don't upgrade?

The author could have at least said the clam-shell iBooks were a flop, based on the logic of poor sales. Didn't only 13 year old girls buy those things?

I don't recall the Newton being a flop either. I recall lawyers and doctors loving the thing, and Apple not being able to make enough of them. Just because average Joe consumer doesn't buy something (too expensive for them) doesn't make it a flop. There are some circles (albeit small) that still laud the capabilities of that thing. A better FLOP example would be those eBook school computer thingies they were trying to push on everyone (foget what they are called, you know..the ones with the mono green screens in an era of cheap and easy 32-bit color?)

The Cube can be classified as a flop, only because it was poorly designed and overheated. Sales figures were based more in its propensity to incinerate its self moreso than the high price tag. The high price tag is bunk because people where buying $3000 Powerbooks left and right (myself included).

Eworld was bundled with Performas. No surpise that it faded out, because dial-up one-stop Internet points like AOL and Prodigy were also dying out at the same time. Apple didn't see the point in continuing an outdated Internet access model.

Here's an Apple flop for you..their QuickTake digital cameras. Those things were expensive and not suitable for the target market of creative professionals.

Re:the iMac craze

[nine-times]

Yeah, yeah, he was talking about the original ones, but for crying out loud, that was more than five years ago.

Yeah, and in general I don't see many people running computers that they bought 9 years ago (it released in 1998). I mean, what was the top speed back then, 300Mhz? When's the last time you've seen someone running a 300 Mhz machine? Still, I have seen these old machines sitting around, still being used. I certainly wouldn't call it a "failure".

Re:the iMac craze

[dmarcoot]

I agree with msot of what you say, but the cube didn't have any problem with over heating that i ever heard of. the so called "cracks", or mold injecting lines and the cost had more to do with it being discontinued.

it most ways, it was ten years ahead of its time. a computer which looked more like art than did a tool.

10 Fatal iPhone Flaws

[cpaglee]

10 Fatal iPhone Flaws:

1. Inability to change the battery. Many people who are willing to pay this much for a phone USE the phone quite a bit and want the ability to change their batteries. Treo made this mistake and Palm corrected it. So will Apple. Guranteed in iPhone 2.0.

2. Inability to swap the GSM card. People who can afford this phone travel overseas and have cell phone numbers overseas. If I can't plug my Hong Kong GSM card into it and get phone functionality (I could give a damn about voicemail) I will not buy one.

3. Mediocre 2.0 Megapixel Camera. If I buy this phone I still have to carry around a digital camera. I am better off buying a Nokia 5 Megapixel camera and getting rid of an extra device in my pocket.

4. Lack of 3G. People will demand faster downloads. Another reason to wait for iPhone 2.0.

5. Lack of External Applications. Many iPhone users will be programmers who will want to design applications for the iPhone. I am all but positive that hackers will resolve this feature limitation very quickly which will remove Apple's ability to control the applications on the iPhone and completely eliminate Apple's ability to assure that applications running on the iPhone are stable, making the iPhone platform less stable. This was more arrogance on Apple's part than anything else.

6. Lack of iTunes on the iPhone. You have Internet. You should be able to buy songs / video on the iPhone.

7. Phone disabled when plugged into base. No, Apple, you may NOT turn off my phone. I like to hear the GSM signal when I am listening to my iTunes. This should have been a user option. Fortunately third-party accessories will solve this problem, but Apple's sales will suffer as a result.

8. Lack of built in GPS. Perhaps because it will not work indoors? But I usually know where I am when I am indoors! If Apple added GPS This device would replace seven other devices I have right now and would be wonderful. Look for this in iPhone 2.0.

9. Lack of Mini SD Card. Why limit expandability? So you can gouge me for $100 for an extra 4G of Flash when I pay $24 for a 4G SD Card?

10. Contract with AT&T. I sincerely hope and pray there is an escape clause from this contract for Apple. I do not want to be forced to change my service provider. This will hurt iPhone sales more than anything else. Its just simple math: Apple sales would be higher with four cell phone service providers pushing their product than with just one. And Verizon is not just going to lay down and die. Maybe they didn't see the incredible opportunity they were missing when they passed on the opportunity to partner with Apple the first time around, but forcing them to wait for five years for a second shot will do nothing but guarantee that other mobile phone manufacturers develop products equivalent or better than the iPhone to meet this demand. While this is good for consumers, it is a mistake by Apple.

Re:10 Fatal iPhone Flaws

[Onan]

While I'm sure that this set of features is very important to you, I think that your assessment of how many people share your particular desires represents some impressive projection.

I (and, it seems, the poster to whom you're responding) want an elegant, usable _telephone_. A telephone that will spend nearly all its time in one nation, being used for fewer than six hours of conversation per day. I don't think I'm projecting too far to suggest that this is a very common usage pattern.

I don't have a whole lot of use for a camera, gps, modular storage, or the ability to buy new music living in my pocket. I don't know what seven gpss you're carrying around, but that's seven more than my life seems to require.

I have confidence in Apple's ability to design a device that performs one function well. If I occasionally use it to take a picture or two, or cart around some files, or check directions when I'm lost, that'll be a nice little lagniappe. But miniscule details of the way it does those ancillary things are leagues away from being "fatal flaws" in my book.

Re:10 Fatal iPhone Flaws

[NDPTAL85]

You should have qualified your article title as "10 Fatal iPhone Flaws For ME" as they are largely irreleant to the tens of millions who will be buying it.

Has a SIM

[SuperKendall]

Now you can't take a T-Mobile SIM and use it with the iPhone. But, it seems there would be nothing to stop you from using an iPhone SIM in a different GSM phone... which I plan to try with my existing RAZR.

Re:Tethering (nope)

[gutter]

According to david pogue, it doesn't do tethering:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/28/technology/circu its/28pogue.html?ex=1340769600&en=02ed70ebcedd4043 &ei=5124&partner=permalink&exprod=permalink

Misses

[Tom]

I think that's a part of the success story:

Apple makes mistakes.

But Apple learns from its mistakes.

Re:Misses

[Anonymous Coward]

Apple makes mistakes. But Apple learns from its mistakes.

Microsoft makes mistakes. Then tells their marketing department to sell them.

EDGE Sucks!

[nugx]

iPhone is the shit. Im gonna snag one for sure, however, the only thing that really has me disappointed about it is the use of ATT's crappy old EDGE network. Does anyone know if this limitation is solely software based or hardware based? Eg: will they be able to simply update the firmware for 3G in the future, when ATT feels its ready, or is a 1st Gen iPhone doomed to always take 60 seconds to load the New York Times website when not on Wifi?

they might be convincing themselves

[Shivetya]

not to buy it.

Its really easy to just repeat a known list, listing only what affects the poster seems to be missing from most. I figure many are just trying to keep themselves from joining the horde.

Myself, I don't use cellphones enough for it to matter. Work is on an entirely different provider so its not an option for that either (and I really cannot consider carrying two cellphones)

Its very nice looking and when its available for ANY network I will look

AT&T is a monopoly. What would you expect?

[Anonymous Coward]

Anyone ever tell you that monopolies hurt the consumer.. now you know why.

The greedy execs at AT&T are all too ready to cash in on this and our government is just let it happen too. "The New AT&T" is 5 out of 7 of the baby bell companies that were broken up in the 80's.

When they broke the up the first time AT&T made more money than Exxon Mobile. I wonder whats going to happen to the exclusive iPhone contract when we break them up again?

Whats this iPhone you talk about?

[ThomasSobi]

I haven't heard of this iPhone.

Could you give me reviews of the iPhone:
Reviews

Something about its great service provider:
AT&T 1
AT&T 2
AT&T 3

Microsoft's arrogant reaction to this revolutionary device:
MSFT 1
MSFT 2
MSFT 3

Or finally, just throw something in there about the man we all want to fellate:
Steve Jobs

Please stop with all the "news" about the iPhone. We don't care.

Re:Will it

[clonmult]

You totally forgot the "But I don't like iPhones, have you got anything a little less i-Phoney (sic)"

Apple III

[megamerican]

You and the parent make great points. One thing the article didn't mention was the monumental flop of the Apple III. Apple spent a few years only advertising for the Apple III when every review of it blasted it and no one would buy it. Woz said that Apple probably lost 300 million dollars on the Apple III. That is 300 million dollars in early 1980's dollars, today it would be near a billion! According to Woz the reason the Apple III was such a bad product was because it was built by a committee of people in marketing. How could an article miss such a monumental flop as the Apple III?

First iPhone hacked

[objekt]

Don't click if you have an iPhone!

3G

[Hassman]

I'm a little slower on the uptake then most, but I have a question. Sorry, if this has already been addressed somewhere...

the iPhone will use Cingular crappy EDGE data network. When Cingular finally updates this thing to 3G, is it just a software upgrade for the iPhone (or any phone for that matter), or is some of that integrated with the hardware?

I know so little when it comes to cell phone technology it is funny.

iPhone

[Anonymous Coward]

Am I the only one, or are there other people out there who refuse to do any business with AT&T due to their complicity in the NSA spying case?

At the very least...

[tprime]

I plan on taking a wait and see approach for the iPhone, not because I don't like my xv6700 but for the biggest drawback I can see: AT&T Wireless. From what I have seen, aside from international coverage, that wireless network seems to be the weakest of the big guys. This has NOTHING to do with the iPhone which I believe will, at a minimum, force other carriers to improve the quality of their devices. The primary function of the iphone hinges on the subpar carriers and with no external antenna AT&T's coverage may appear worse again.

www.tomandemily.com

Re:Will it

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, I'm sure you'll be able to break it if you REALLY want.

SMS is done on the same protocol layer as calls

[Uksi]

An AC posted this the other day:

SMS transfers are done on the same protocol layer as the call connections. That's why they're limited & more expensive. That's also why they're so limited in length.

Arbitrary

[SuperKendall]

Revolutionary would be if it already had all the info, gathered based on my location, and I just hit a button: "food"

First, that might be possible by having a web page with favorite map queries saved (remember that web pages can activate google maps, though I suspect it's more for singular addresses).

Secondly, to say that having maps all the time is no big deal but that being able to store a query against that map is... it just seems like you're grasping at straws to find something the iPhone doesn't do and labeling that as something special.

For me having google maps around all the time will actually be pretty special, as I currently often print out a map before trips to unknown areas and I can replace a lot of needless printing just by having the maps on me.

1. Apple's ROKR Flop; 2. Multitouch Musings.

[coolGuyZak]

This is gonna sound a bit like a conspiracy theory, but here goes...

My friends and I came up with a theory explaining just this event. We believe that Apple flopped the ROKR for marketing purposes. They designed & built the ROKR, letting Motorola do most of the work, to make it less expensive. They took the profits (or losses?) from the ROKR and used it to conceal development on the iPhone.

Rumors had begun to fly around that point in time, and Apple didn't want anyone to know about the iPhone, particularly their competitors on the market. They also used the media coverage to dispel the rumors surrounding Phone-iPod "fusion" products, further masking the development of the product. Furthermore, they could approach Intel, AT&T & Verizon with development services & contractual offers, respectively, without looking too suspicious.

After the ROKR flop, Apple-branded phones died down for at least a year. Then, last August, Steve Jobs unmasks the iPhone for the first time. Multiple years of development were spent on that phone, from multi-touch to UI studies. Additional research went into the form factor, the interaction system, the integrated Safari browser. Apple was likely developing the iPhone alongside (or directly after) their OSX x86 port and the ROKR itself. In either case, they definitely learned what not to do with a phone.

So, yeh. Our guess is they flopped the ROKR to hide the iPhone from competing manufacturers including, it seems, Motorola.

--
And now for something related, but completely different: Looking forward, what does a design like the iPhone enable? Multitouch displays on standard computing! We could finally get Star Trek interfaces!! That's the real news, folks. Multitouch & small form factor FTW. (POS displays, controls for stereos & such, remotes for your TV... :D).

Hopefully Apple's next killer app is the iPaDD.

*ducks*

Linux installed by Saturday

[peter303]

We got to open this sucker up.

Re:Will it

[Yvan256]

This is my "timey-whimey" detector. Goes ding when there's stuff. Also, it can boil an egg at thirty paces. - The Doctor (Doctor Who, "Blink" episode)

Re:Will it

[Mark_Uplanguage]

Holy carp! That was funny. Insightful or not I give you a perfect 10 for humor.

suspended.page

[Anonymous Coward]

A list of applications is out and still growing. =>

This Account Has Been Suspended
Please contact the billing/support department as soon as possible.

All of these commercials are also on WiFi not EDGE

[Anonymous Coward]

Because of course, it would take more time than they have in a commercial spot to bring up one of these webpages over EDGE.

*sigh*

[objekt]

It's not a troll. It's a joke.

Re:Will it

[nine-times]

I do agree that the post rate for iPhone stories is getting absurd, though. Only 2 more days and the wait will be over... the wait for everyone to stop posting their random idiotic speculation about how good/bad/shiny it's going to be!

Yeah, but then you'll just get a lot of random idiotic reviews about how good/bad/shiny it is. And then a bunch of random idiotic speculation about how good/bad/shiny the software updates will be, and a bunch of random idiotic speculation about how good/bad/shiny the iPhone 2 will be.

Unlike the Segway, people already are using

[Tran]

similar items that where similarily priced. Just checking some of the posts well above, and looking at the exec level in our company, some Treos and Blackberrys fall in that category.
I haven't read anything that suggests anything revolutionary about the iPhone other than fewer mechanical buttons.
Cutting through the clutter, I personally see a well executed interface (if it is not buggy) - doing things that other devices can also do, but apparently those just dont do it as well as the iPhone
Will people pay for this polish? Some, but I suspect many (even non tech people) will also buy it because it is the latest and greatest phone gadget.

Now, the thing I think is overhyped much more thant the iphone and is likely to fall way short of its own hype is this Microsoft Surface.

Re:Will it

[macserv]

... and Lobster Thermidor, a crevet, with a mornay sauce served Provencale with shallots and aubergines, garnished with truffle pate and a fried egg on top, and iPhone.

I take it

[ad0gg]

you don't own an ipod. I've lost count how many times both my video and nano have locked up on me.

Re:I take it

[Anonymous Coward]

My Shuffle (first-gen) has never frozen on me, and my 4th-gen 20GB full-size has locked up about four times in three years.

Re:You ain't just whistlin' dixie...

[mkiwi]

With the iPhone release coming soon there is no shortage of stories being submitted. No shortage?! That's a gross understatement. I think I have just been convinced by this latest iPhone plug that things are going overboard.

We know the features, we know the controversy, we know EVERYTHING.

And we know slashdot. It's only a matter of time before someone says:

OMG iPhones!!!

let the slashdot magic begin...

Top 8 iPhone Customer Complaints Apple will Receiv

[cpaglee]

I definitely agree with the parent comments. The flaws I pointed out are not 'fatal'. The iPhone changes the paradigm of cell phones so dramatically and the hype is so huge that it is all but guaranteed to be a success. I am a huge fan of Apple and if it were not for reason 2 below I would be in line right now. I should have used the title: Top iPhone Customer Complaints Apple Will Receive. And I should probably have only listed 8:

1. I really HATE AT&T! (Contract with AT&T.) (Personally, I have no problem with AT&T. But this WILL be a HUGE customer complaint, and it will reflect very negatively on Apple. Customers that had great coverage with Verizon, T-Mobile or Sprint will take their iPhone home and not have any signal inside their house. They will be furious with Apple that they were forced to switch.)

2. I really want to use my iPhone overseas! (Inability to swap the GSM card.)

3. I really want to carry a backup battery! (Inability to change the battery.)

4. I really wish I could purchase iTunes through my iPhone! (Lack of iTunes on the iPhone.)

5. iPhone is so SLOW! (Lack of 3G.)

6. My iPhone doesn't ring when it is plugged into its base!

7. My phone keeps on crashing! (Because of an External Application that a customer loaded using a hack. This could have been avoided if Apple had offered an API instead of forcing coders to hack the iPhone.) #OR# I really wish the iPhone had XYZ application! (Which could have been solved by allowing External Applications.)

8. I really wish the iPhone had a better camera! (Mediocre 2.0 Megapixel Camera).

From an Apple enthusiast point of view, the problems noted above will cause a lot of people to be dissatisfied with their iPhone, in kind of a love / hate relationship. There is no alternative today that even comes close to the iPhone, so repeating theme will be 'I love my iPhone, but I really wish...' And these problems could have been avoided but for the nature of Apple's development process.

There had to be a discussion some time during the development of the iPhone: "Maybe we should let the customer swap batteries?" where they came to the wrong conclusion that customers would be happy with long battery life. Many women keep a spare battery in their purse, and people by their very nature are resistant to change (I wonder how many females there are on the iPhone design team?). 100% of the companies who have tried the 'built-in battery' strategy have eventually changed course and allowed users to change batteries because it is critical for a significant portion of the market.

Apple's entire strategy of exclusive partnership with cellular providers in different markets is a colossal mistake. Apple is NOT doing this because the service provider has to customize their service to support Visual Voicemail. Apple is doing this because they are taking a portion of the monthly revenue from AT&T. This is why Verizon took a pass when Apple approached them first about the iPhone. This strategy is a mistake not because I have anything against Cingular or Vodaphone. But who in the USA can honestly say "I love my cell phone provider"? When people switch to AT&T and are dissatisfied with the service (whether it is coverage or customer service) they will blame APPLE. Apple's positive brand image is worth more than any revenue kicker they will ever receive from AT&T. A huge portion of the market will just refuse to switch, regardless of how great the iPhone is. A significant portion of the market will return their iPhone and switch BACK to their original provider because AT&T just won't work for them.

Part of the problem will be the sales people at AT&T stores. Sales people at AT&T stores are compensated by the number of customers they are able to sign up and retain as customers. They will make up almost any excuse to keep their customers. And when a customer comes back to the store to complain "My iPhone doesn't have a signal at my home" they will respond with "Yea, that is a p

Re:Will it

[IvanTheQuiteNasty]

Will the next version of the iPhone also include a subscription to the Archangel network? (Du-du-du-dum, du-du-du-dum, du-du-du-dum, ...)

iWait... Standing in Line Waiting for the iPhone

[Liquid_Vitamins]

8:10am EST King of Prussia, Pa We got here bright and early (6:45am) to wait for the highly anticipated release of the Apple iPhone. There were a couple of people in line already so we are officially #5, #6, #7. Check back for updates, pictures, and watch the video on our YouTube chanel http://www.youtube.com/liquidvitamins the pictures now and updates during the day at: http://www.squidoo.com/iphon There are about 30 people behind us right.

Went to watch at 6:00....

[UttBuggly]

The wife and I went to a favorite restaurant for an early dinner that's adjacent to a mall with the local Apple store and a Cingular/AT&T store. They're on the ground floor about 200 yards walking distance apart.

Wow! What a circus. The Cingular store was sold out in minutes, then started taking orders for delivery in "2-3 business days".

The Apple store apparently had quite a few. There were local PD and mall security managing the LONG line. They would allow 3-4 people in at a time, whereupon, all the shiny, happy Apple folks would applaud. As people left with their iPhones, in little black iPhone bags, again with the applause. It was surreal.

Went down to the Cingular store and got to actually see and touch a demo model, chained to the big display showing iPhone videos. They had 3, but one apparently DIED...refused to sync and/or charge when connected to the iPhone kiosk/display. I overheard one Cingular staffer say "we CAN'T take it down to Apple...they're still swamped!" They finally took it the back to connect it to a PC. They didn't come back while I was there.

First impression...as cool as advertised. The touch screen is an instant hit with everyone that uses it for more than a few seconds. They get it.

Didn't order one...I'd like one, but I think the 2nd or 3rd one will be crazy good.

And there you have it...back to the newsroom.