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No OLPCs for Cuba, Ever
An anonymous reader writes "In a move going largely unnoticed by developers, the OLPC project now requires all submissions to be hosted in the RedHat Fedora project. While this may not seem like a big deal, the implications are interesting. First, contributors have to sign the Fedora Project Individual Contributor License Agreement. By being forced to submit contributions to the Fedora repository they automatically fall under the provisions of US export law. So, no OLPC for Cuba, Syria and the like. Ever."
because US laws and export restrictions never change. ever.
It's hard to believe that's how Micronians are made. Why don't we see it right now by having you both kiss one another?
I guess Hizbollah and the Janjaweed won't get their laptops now. They worked so hard for them, it's not fair ;_;
things change fast in the world
"Slashdot, where telling the truth is overrated but lying is insightful."
Altruism triggers pleasure centers like a drug or sex, which means that we do altruistic acts for ourselves, not for others. So don't expect the OLPC folks to cry out over this one. The original OLPC group wanted to construe themselves as philanthropists, and now Intel and others are moving in to scoop up this "new market." There are no gifts without strings.
technical writing / development
I wouldn't say "ever"...both Cuba and Syria have made steps towards getting removed from the US ban list, and with Fidel teetering on death's edge, who knows what the future will bring.
Yet, not too surprisingly, Windows has found its way into Cuba and I'm certain the OLPC will also be found there in mass quantities if it is indeed useful/popular. Physical devices may be harder to find there than software but you'll find them there.
This isn't news. The U.S. trade embargos have been in place on Cuba, Iran, Iraq, North Korea, Sudan and Syria for a while now. Furthermore, if the laptops are made and assembled outside the U.S.
So let's get creative here, you make and manufacture the hardware outside the United States. Then you ship them to restricted countries (I think the parts are going to come from China anyway). You leave it up to people inside Cuba or where ever to install the OLPC image. Who has violated the TOS? The citizens of the country who really don't give a damn what U.S. export laws they're breaking.
And if these laws are broken, who's going to enforce them? Redhat/Fedora? The U.S. government is going to show up and stop laptops from going to children? The U.S. government is going to shutdown a free open source software hosting site? I highly doubt it.
My work here is dung.
I see it as a good move also, it would be awesome to get technology in the hands of the youth of developing countries, but so many times aid is intercepted by the government, or whoever the "bad guys" are, and something that was intended to aid progress, helps aid regression
wouldn't the laptops themselves fall under United States export laws?
Ooo man the floppy drive is broken. No wait. The computer is just upside down.
Yeah, like US Law has never ever changed. Remember trade embargoes during apartheid? Castro's ill, it's not clear who will be taking over. New high-level talks have opened with Syria recently also. Not saying that either of these things are likely to change next month, but "never" is pretty long.
[
Just put Centos on them...
lol what the fuck do you know about Cuba that you didn't see on FOX?
Sit down, Rambo.
...over goodwill.
Raj Against the Machine! http://social-butterfly.appspot.com/
One day the US will normalise relations with Cuba. The process might not happen until after the current generation of ex-Cubans in Forida is dead, but that's hardly _never_.
In the mean time they could just funnel shipments through a neutral third party. Creative accountants can manage to hide billions from the IRS, why shouldn't they be able to do something socially useful like vanish a couple of shipping containers of laptops.
Think of the Children; Sleep with your Sister
When the regimes that control those countries stop sponsoring terrorism, then I'm sure they'll be taken off the export list.
That'd teach those kids for living in the wrong countries.
Pssh... This isn't new. OLPC has always run a modified version of Fedora, so the export restrictions would always apply to it, if they didn't already apply for other reasons (like... hardware exports?).
This is purely an organizational note for people who want their software contributions considered for official distribution on the laptops. The laptops themselves will run whatever software the user wants, whether the author signed a Fedora repository agreement or not.
I agree. There are so many ways they could help their people with fuel and other valuable economic riches, but they don't do it as-is. In fact, a lot of these places send government funded militias to seize all incoming RATIONS for their own use, regardless of who it's for. Even some countries who aren't blocked by sanctions will probably see this happen as a common occurence.
Sad, but true.
"Please, shut up. Just when I think you can't say anything more stupid, you speak again." -Archie Bunker.
According to the linked sugar list message, this restriction only apply to submissions to the Etoys project (http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Etoys). This doesn't imply (as the summary states) that all submissions to the OLPC project must be hosted on Fedora.
- Castro dies
- Mutual Defense Pact is unveiled between Venezuela and Cuba, and Castro's successor asks Venezuela for "help."
- Venezuela military moves in under the guise of "protecting" Cuba from invasion from other countries.
- Cuba becomes a satellite province of Venezuela.
Unless the US and other countries have the balls to throw up a naval force and cordon off Cuba so the people of Cuba can handle it for themselves.
I was leaning more toward Syria, but if you actually support Castro, you've got problems.
Go read a book.
"Please, shut up. Just when I think you can't say anything more stupid, you speak again." -Archie Bunker.
Isn't it about time the US government got over their obsession with Cuba? The cold war is over, and the West won. Is there really any need to keep up this ridiculous charade of continued sanctions against Cuba? It's not like they're huge hypocrites about it anyway: how many politicians have smoked a Cuban cigar? How many US citizens now benefit from Cuban developed vaccines?
The US does business with far worse regimes on a daily basis. Time to live and let live.
It's mind blowing to read a post like this, with an Archie Bunker quote in the signature.
You do know that show was making fun of people like Archie, right?
OLPC worse and worse everyday
Don't worry about Cuba, I am seeing a bunch of "Bolivarian computers" in their future...
Copyright infringement is "piracy" in the same way DRM is "consumer rape"
GOODING JR.
"They don't really give a shit about their people anyway."
...
unlike the us government who gives much shit about their people, plunging 400 billions of dollars in a war for the oil industry, refuse to give health insurance to sick americans to cater for private insurance business, wiretap their citizens,
land of the free!
Are this behavior and legal situation compatible with the no restrictions provisions of the GPL?
wow you guys really drank the neocon coolaid. Learn to look through the propoganda, and you might see there is a world OUTSIDE THE US. Fuck off you stupid drones.
Sanctions only exist to subjugate the peoples of these countries,increasing the death rates of the young, and lower the quality of life of the citizens. Sanctions, and withholding of technologies of these "rogue states" (read: any states that have the balls to stand up to US economic and social hegemony), only serves to bolster these regimes(many of which were installed and supported by the CIA/NSA/etc to fight other "threats").
Face it, US foreign policy is one of economic fascism, cultural indoctrination and genocide.
I'm a proud American who is embarassed by the evil imperialists who run our country.
For those of us not in the Linux fanboy club, could someone provide an explanation as to what OLPC actually stands for?
Bonus answer would by why anyone would give a rat's behind that Syria can't participate?
I am SURE Syria is just BUSTING at the SEAMS with Open Source developers making huge contributions to the source tree, right? so sad all their hopes and dreams are dashed by US policy.
Maybe Syria and Cuba can sign up and work on Red Flag Linux?
so, michael moore, at least you reveal yourself!
Why can't "we" export the software to [insert country here], and the reseller there can do whatever they want with it, including sending it to Cuba?
"Freedom from paying for goods and services" has never been one of our freedoms. That is a recent perversion of the term.
how the hell did this get modded insightful? only on slashdot.. /sigh
This is an interesting question, and I too would like to know the answer. I wonder what RMS thinks of this.
They really did piss Kennedy off didn't they...
Why ? Have you been there ? They have a much better society than they would have had the American Mafia continued running it. They have good education, reasonable health care and while not so much stuff, they do not have foreclosures and bankruptcies the likes that you have been experiencing. Not to mention the next round coming on about now. Even after all these years of embargo by their ever so caring neighbors to the North, they still smile much more than anywhere I have ever seen in the US. I think sir it is you who ought to read a book.
"If the King's English was good enough for Jesus, it's good enough for me!" -- "Ma" Ferguson, Governor of Texas (circa
Does supporting Cuba mean you support Castro? Does supporting Bush mean you support the US?
After looking at the Venezuela-Cuba-US love triangle, here's my guess:
Wow that post is really informative, you've help me meet my quota of learning something new each day.
How did this blatant troll who calls himself Mockylock get modded insightful?
GPL'd code can't be encumbered by restrictions. So, if OLPC distributes Linux code they can't do it in a manner that will be encumbered by extra restrictions.
OLPC has a problem.
Also, nothing breaks old values faster than McDonald's and MTV.
Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
How do you explain people risking their lives and the lives of their families to escape? Not a challenge per-se, just an honest question.
I think GP was reacting to the rather more ridiculous contention that American politicians by and large give more of a crap about the people they govern than politicans in other countries. That the countervailing evidence manifests as health insurance being inaccessible for a huge swath of the working population (when a good portion of the rest of the world has amply demonstrated is not a necessary situation), and the prosecution of an transpatently profiteering war that has killed tens (hundreds?) of thousands of Iraqis and thousands of Americans (which most of the rest of the world considered if not illegal than just plain stupid to get involved in), is simply a reflection of our own neuroses. Other countries screw over their people in different ways, according to different guiding ideologies.
All the techniques ever used to make men moral have been themselves thoroughly immoral... (Nietzsche)
Any idea how many US products are over there in Cuba and Syria?
I'll give you a hint, lots.
Just because some provision says "no", doesn't make it so
So rise up, all ye lost ones, as one, we'll claw the clouds.
because as we all know Fidel Castro is immortal.
You say this like it is a bad thing. The less IT infrastructure these repressive regimes have the better. I personally think the embargo against Cuba at this point is counter-productive, but I am not going to cry because they can't use this software either.
Umm, may I ask how the hell this got modded as Insightful? If I had mod points I would drop this as Flamebait more than anything.
I get that the US in general has some obsessive hatred of Cuba, but were you to actually go there and meet the people you would come back with the impression only of a society trying to survive under grinding poverty because they cannot trade with a lot of foreign nations due to the embargo, NOT one of wanton cruelty as the Parent is trying to suggest.
Take it from someone who has seen it firsthand.
This is not a sig.
Free-as-in-liberty does not have anything to do with free-as-in-healthcare.
"Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
What is true is that none of these machines will be sold directly to such a country, and therefore will not be as prevalent as other countries, assuming that these machines are going to prevalent anywhere. What it also means is that extraneous third parties are going to cut off the sale of these machines.
Of course if we believe that these countries are lawless and without manners, then why do they need the OLPC anyway? All the computers are made in China, a fellow red label state, and if the chinese are willing to ship poisoned food to the States, I see no reason why they would not ship reliable computers to cuba. Likewise, if cuba or syria or any of these countries run unlicensed copies of windows and other software, who is going to stop them. The copyright people are notorious about preferring soft target hard targets, so they are unlikely to mount an offensive against so-called renegade countries.
So, in the end, given their outlaw status, I bet these countries could get a fully loaded MS Windows PC cheaper than they could an stripped down OLPC.
"She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
Just to make sure you are aware that not everyone who read your post immediately jumped to the wrong conclusion and donned their flame suit... I read your post as replying to the post you just indicated as well, and it made perfect sense to me. While I might not agree entirely with your sentiment, it seemed clear enough to me that you were not specifically talking about Cuba.
-Rick
"Most people in the U.S. wouldn't know they live in a tyrannical state if it walked up and grabbed their junk." - MyFirs
Those are exactly the places you want computers - especially for the poor. The one commodity these government are having a difficult time controlling is information.
You say that as if it's not possible to do things that are painful. Using that study to say that all altruism isn't really altruistic is not even wrong.
Literacy:
definition: age 15 and over can read and write
total population: 97%
male: 97.2%
female: 96.9% (2003 est.) World Factbook - Cuba
sure they are smiling to foreign turists who come from Europe, Canada (or even some from the US) with pockets stuffed with cash that they earn in their evil oppressive capitalist economies, but just ask a Cuban in Miami who can speak freely what life in Cuba is really like for ordiany people.
Do you think Castro would allow PC's to be given to children in Cuba, even if they were allowed to send them there?
Support groups and other organizations from the US attempt to defy the government and help Cubas citizens, but are usually in great danger of being intercepted by it's own government.
Do you think there would be half the problems in their society if Castro was gone? Besides, how many presidents have come and gone in the US since his life-long rule, and everyone still has the same opinion.
I don't hate Cubans, but being a lifelong communist dictator and not changing your ways, allowing your country to starve.. isn't USA's problem. Anything you give him will be used against you or thrown back in your face.
I feel bad for their children. I really do. But, you're blind to think that Castro would allow anything of the sort.
"Please, shut up. Just when I think you can't say anything more stupid, you speak again." -Archie Bunker.
Looks like we better swap that O out with a zero.
0 Laptops Per Cubin.
Wanna fight ? Bend over, stick your head up your ass, and fight for air.
"They don't really give a shit about their people anyway. If we gave them OLPC's they'd take them and sell them, or use them for the government."
Bullshit. How do you know that? Who told you that?
Or are you just running on what Fox+CNN are telling you?
I am always amazed at the amount of un-informed assumptions that are made about "others" by usa residents. Sigh.
The anti communist propaganda worked well: now americans are deeply convinced that owning equals knowing. Well, surprise! It doesn't. Even remotely.
If the education and cultural level of the average US Joe Sixpack was even one half of the average cuban, you wouldn't be here writing this nonsense but rather doing actually something to help educate your fellow citizen to change your country for better.
Well, initially it was the upper and middle classes that stood to loose their wealth due to redistribution and probably some due to their assistance to the people who were at the receiving end of the revolution. Now, after 30+ years of sanctions there are people who wish for more money and the things that accompany it, the same as immigrants from other countries.
I have spent some time in Cuba and have had many interesting conversations regarding the revolution. The funny thing is that many seem to think the embargo is funny. A cigar that sells for 5 Euros in Europe sells for 5 times than on the US market. It is always fun to watch US tourist queue up to purchase them wherever they are available.
Not everyone in the world is dying to leave their country and move to the US, no matter what the boys at Fox say. Rupert is not even there most of the time.
"If the King's English was good enough for Jesus, it's good enough for me!" -- "Ma" Ferguson, Governor of Texas (circa
Now you can blow off the rest of the day!
I was going to comment on this topic, but I realized that most of the people who have their comments visible are of the mind that: a) economic sanctions don't work, and b) military action doesn't work.
I guess that these people believe the only way to make the world a better place is to toke up, hand out folowers, drop your pants and bend over. All this gets you is butt-fucked before before decaptitation.
See you all in hell.
As always, just by $0.02 worth.
Whether "allowed" or not, these will be pirated as are Windows, Hollywood movies, etc. with not a peep from Mr. Softie, *AA, or anyone else.
It'd take the dumbest /.er five minutes to figure out how to get US goods into any of these "embargo" countries, and a day to implement given the readily available resources.
Needless to say, it's been done and functions very smoothly, thank you very much.
"Nothing to see here, move along"
One person signs the agreement and submits the project to Fedora. Anther person submits the project from Fedora to OLPC. There is no requirement that it's the same person.
You're right. It has nothing to do with the dictator that's been in there most of his life and refuses to step down.
Besides, we've had how many presidents in office since he's been in? It could have been dropped, right?
The government has now gained massive income from oil fields, but do you think it starving citizens will see any of it? Please.
In the states, there is impeachment.. in Cuba you have no choice. The US isn't to blame for him being completely insane.
The embargo IS past it's prime, but you can't put ALL the blame on the US.
Again, most of my first post was based on comments to Syria.. but, you get my drift.
"Please, shut up. Just when I think you can't say anything more stupid, you speak again." -Archie Bunker.
Yay. High literacy in a country where books are routinely banned. Such authors as MLK Jr. and George Orwell. yeah, Cuba is wonderful. The left-leaning garbage on slashdot is nauseating.
For one second, ignore the propaganda machine that has you brain washed.
Here's one very small county and its largest trading is oppressing it economically for 50 years for purely idealogical reasons. It doesn't take much though to figure out that life is not going to be easy - and some people will choose to leave.
People all over the world are risking their lives and the lives of their families for a better future or way of life. There are even people leaving the US every day for a better life somewhere else.
If the embargo was lifted tomorrow, Castro or no, people would stop leaving. But that will never happen, because the US is terrified that Cuba might prove that a Communist state can work.
Genesis 1:32 And God typed
Yeah. Everyone we don't deal with is always in good standing, and their government has no reason of harming their own citizens.
Besides, how many countries do we honestly help out with sending food and supplies, yet it's intercepted by it's own government before it actually gets to those who are starving?
I don't know the numbers offhand, but I'm PRETTY sure that most of the countries that have sanctions against them wouldn't use the economy for their own citizens, regardless of the amount or origin.
It doesn't HELP by enforcing a sanction by any means, but it pressures the country to make a change. Otherwise, they'll continue fucking over their own people.
"Please, shut up. Just when I think you can't say anything more stupid, you speak again." -Archie Bunker.
I would guess that once the software has been rebranded under the rights granted by the GPL, Red Hat can't enforce any export restrictions on it (because I'm guessing it would conflict with the GPL. So this story is probably just baseless fearmongering, or perhaps even anti Red Hat FUD.
But Cuba's main agricultural product, besides tobacco, is sugar, and the US has had high tariffs on sugar for a long time. Not only does that prop up US sugar producers (mainly Louisiana, Hawaii, Florida_) by keeping the US sugar price far higher than the world average, but the High-Fructose Corn Syrup lobby likes high sugar prices because they can put their dreck into our soda, while the rest of the world gets to have Coke with real sugar in it. So the Archer Daniels Midland gang also don't want free trade with Cuba.
I'd recommend that next time you're in Canada, you get some Cuban cigars, except for the problem that they put carcinogenic flammable tobacco products in the things....
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
Those dudes are building the Rohas Revolucion Hombre's home computer for near-free. I'm sure oil rich angry expropriate all the industries and nationalize them Marxism can fix everything for them.
I knowww... ;) I didn't add that it was more centered around the Syria government.
"Please, shut up. Just when I think you can't say anything more stupid, you speak again." -Archie Bunker.
No government gives a shit about their people. The only difference between any two governments is how much power they have over the lives of the people they don't give a shit about.
That the countervailing evidence manifests as health insurance being inaccessible for a huge swath of the working population
Huge swath? The latest numbers show that 40 million (out of 300 million) people don't have health insurance. The vast majority of these are self employed individuals who choose not to have health insurance. You must have some bizarre definition of "huge".
God invented whiskey so the Irish would not rule the world.
... this will be the one that finally triggers democratic reforms in Cuba!
Prov 9:8 Do not rebuke mockers or they will hate you; rebuke the wise and they will love you.
there are a ton of comments about how only the US is in on the embargo - and that not a single other country joins them in it. Now you say that it is a crushing embargo that a 'lot' of nations are enforcing. just as a point of curiosity - which is it?
It's hard to believe that's how Micronians are made. Why don't we see it right now by having you both kiss one another?
How do you explain [Cuban] people risking their lives and the lives of their families to escape?
The same way you explain everybody else who risks their lives in order to sneak into the US? You know, maybe the ones that the big national debate on "amnesty" is about? Cubans get automatic "amnesty", they don't have to worry about being rounded up by the cops, like the rest of the "illegals".
The guy's probably a Tom DeLay supporter. Did you know that the Tom DeLay Legal Defense Fund actually used a segment of the Colbert Report where Colbert was pretending to support DeLay as evidence that he should be let go?
Please, for the good of Humanity, vote Obama.
Klingon Software is not released, it escapes, inflicting terrible damage onto the enemy as it does
and by blatant troll, you mean someone who shares a differing opinion then yourself.
Klingon Software is not released, it escapes, inflicting terrible damage onto the enemy as it does
I was under the impression that part of the OLPC project was not only to get computers into the hands of people in under developed countries, but also to get them connected. Well, in Cuba it is an offense to have a PC at home without permission and license from the State, and private internet connections are forbidden. Possessing a PC, and having connected to the net can get you 20 years in the pogey. So, the OLPC would likely have been a no go in Cuba anyway. Furthermore, I think the money wasted on OLPC would have been far better spent setting up programs for low intensity, organic agriculture desigend to replace cash crop cultivation with food supply crops. But, I guess feeding people isn't as cool, or sexy as sending them a bright gree, hand cranked laptop. To me, Negroponte is an ass.
Choose to not have health insurance? Are you kidding?
It's a lot easier to dismiss opinions you don't like by alleging they are being propagated by people who don't analyze them, isn't it?
If the embargo was lifted tomorrow, Castro or no, people would stop leaving. But that will never happen, because the US is terrified that Cuba might prove that a Communist state can work.
Well said tovarisch, you should join the John Kerry awkward comedy tour. That's is the funniest thing I've seen on the internet in a while. Actually, the reason why the embargo won't be lifted as long as Castro draws breath is the Cuban ex-pats in Florida would turn on which ever political party lifted the embargo, and Florida is a "swing" state in presidential elections. HTH
I laughed at the weak who considered themselves good because they lacked claws.
Or as Osama Bin Laden says: "I am still free, how about you?"
Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
I'm of the philosophy that proportionality is irrelevant when it comes to existential conditions like suffering. That is to say, roughly, a million people dying early through lack of health insurance is a 'huge swath' whether it is a million amongs three million, or a million amongst three hundred million. And seeing as how it is forty million amongst who-cares-how-large a population, that qualifies in my mind as, to put it mildly, a 'huge swath'.
And, as another poster put it sharply, nobody 'chooses' to not have health insurance. Self-employed people have a hard time getting insurance at the same rates as large employers, because large employers benefit from huge quantities of corporate welfare and preferential deals regardings scale when they deal with HMOs that somehow never trickle down to self-emloyed folk. And, just for the record, nobody willingly chooses to die early, which in the vast majority of cases is what not having health insurance practically means. BTW, most of the uninsured aren't self-employed people; most of the uninsured are children of self-employed people. And they, roughly, didn't have any choice whatsoever in their circumstances.
All the techniques ever used to make men moral have been themselves thoroughly immoral... (Nietzsche)
The researcher confuses signal and cause. The good-feeling is a response to altruism, but that is what drives us toward altruism, not some inherent desire to do good. If altruism produces a feelgood feeling like drugs do, we must recognize that this is the motivator and not altruism itself. We are reacting to the effect, not finding a cause within ourselves to take the action. Otherwise, heroin addicts are taking drugs simply to keep the drugs from getting lonely.
technical writing / development
Of course you did not meet those who oppose the government, because they're either killed by a firing squad or in jail. If those you met opposed the government, they'd be too scared to tell you anyway. You met those who came to accept their poverty as something not caused by their government, but by "Yankee Imperialism"
Even if there were no embargo against Cuba, citizens there don't have freedom to produce or exchange goods, do business, or own any means of production (and even a backyard raised pig is considered so). They can only produce as far as they are employed by the Cuban government; and the Cuban government maintains a policy of "austerity", that is, poverty for everyone but party officials. Even if you could buy them, you won't be sold imported goods in government run shops(everything is run by the government), or a cellphone, or use any of the services intended for foreigners only.
The US may not be the land of the free, but comparing Cuba favorably does not lessen the fact that Cuba is a ruthless communist dictatorship that cares very little about their own citizens.
OLPC Elian Edition?
ccalam - acoustic versions of new songs.
Cuba has oil now(always there I guess)...lots of it. Potentially as much as Venezuela. Canada is helping develop these oil fields. Currently Cuba's national demand is 10 million tons of oil, they are producing 6 million tons...4 years ago they were producing next to nothing. So in 4 more years Cuba will have an oil surplus. With a oil surplus, a thirsty European Union and 2 of the most advanced refineries in the world(Canada)that can process its sulphur rich oil, they will be buying brand new Lenovo laptops from China :P.
40 years after the Cuban missle crisis. 20 years after "Tear down this wall!". 10 years after the Soviet Union dissolved.
Isn't it about time for this piece of cold war bullshit to finally die?
I know this affects other countries as well. Funny, though, that embargo restrictions can be adapted at will for the whims of the politicians. Why not for this?
"Hey, the third matrix movie would have been good except for the plot,story, and acting." --AC
Well, no, only until they are removed from the State Department's List of State Sponsors of International Terrorism. This has happened for Iraq (on, off, on, off), Libya (on account of "Libya's continued commitment to its renunciation of terrorism") and the People's Democratic Republic of Yemen (merged with the Yemen Arab Republic).
Slashdot: Playing Favorites Since 1997
Take this to court, and they will rule the entire GPL illegal for violating the US law
The GPL covers only code. The article was about restricting the OLPC from being exported to Cuba/Syria/etc. because the code would be covered by export restrictions. In that regard, OLPC has a problem. The hardware isn't sourced in America and would be very hard to cover with export restrictions.
Somebody could send nuclear weapons to Cuba/Syria/etc. and nobody could be prosecuted. Of course the last time the Russians tried that we threatened to bomb them off the face of the planet. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuban_Missile_Crisis
I suspect the GPL'd nuclear bomb software is about the last thing we have to worry about. It's the uranium bits that get everyone upset.
So, don't fool yourself. Right now, lack of OLPC notebooks is the least of the problems faced by Cuban children. Or, for that matter, by their parents.
Conservatism: (n.) love of the existing evils. Liberalism: (n.) desire to substitute new evils for the existing ones.
The US still is under the impression that sanctions and trade embargoes will actually cause regime change in these countries. Even though they haven't worked at all ...
They started working they day they were made. While regime change is nice, it's not the only reason to have trade embargoes. A more fundamental reason is to stop helping tyrants. Trade is always mutually beneficial, the first goal of embargoes is to end that benefit to countries that oppress their own people. A second reason is to maintain the value of your own labor. The whole purpose of oppression is to make yourself rich off other people's work, aka slavery. Trade with countries that use slave labor puts free industry at risk. These goals are noble and worthwile, despite obvious contradictions and omissions like China's most favored nation status and other of our own misdeeds.
That being said, this article stinks. Export controls have been used against free software before and were entirely pointless. The line of reasoning would extinguish any and all network software distribution, free and non free. Focusing that line of reasoning onto free software as "free software aids terrorists" is a tactic that was predicted:
Using OLPC for this purpose is particularly asinine. They might as well outlaw cookbook publication because some hated foreign leader might get his hands on the Joy of Cooking and use the fresh pork section as a guide to cooking babies.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
The US actually has a very coherent policy on that. At the top level there are regimes like Saddam, which reach a degree of aggression that will not be tolerated, these will be removed from power with all necessary use of force. The second level is regimes like Castro, too repugnant to have business with, but not enough to merit direct military action. Then there are different levels where business to some degree is allowed, but without what could be called "encouragement". Even if an economic embargo may not work, it's better than saying "OK, since an embargo will not work let's help these dictators".
Even though they haven't worked at all (and in fact have only served to further entrench the regimes in question) over the more than 40 years they've been in place, we're still convinced that if we keep them around just a little bit longer, democracy will flourish.
There's no "what if" in international politics, there's no mathematical model that will let anyone tell if a particular policy will work or not. But I still believe in basic principles, I think it's wrong to help one of the most cruel dictatorships in recent history. Perhaps 40 years is too short a time, after all the Soviet Union survived for 70 years. Maybe if other countries hadn't helped the Castro dictatorship Cuba would be a democracy by now, who knows?
But I must say I admire the firm principles the US government has held against the dictatorship in Cuba. It may not have been the most effective policy, but it does show a basic set of principles. For me, it's better to be right and fail than taking the road most likely to succeed without any regard to what's right or wrong.
I don't understand the irrational fear of not having health insurance. I think most people don't realize, that in aggregate, you are better off without health insurance- if that were not true, the health insurance companies would all be out of business.
Now no, its not for everyone, but my company pays nearly all of my health insurance costs ( I end up paying something like $20/month) and yet I have still lost out on the deal the past few years, only going to the doctor maybe once a year. If health insurance continues to creep up in price, I simply won't pay and I will take my chances, just like nearly everyone did up until about 50 years ago.
Health insurance is not something that is absolutely required for life here on planet Earth.
Not one single president has ever been impeached. Nixon broke far fewer laws than Bush, but our politicians only grumble about impeaching Bush. It was reported that Bush had broken over 700 laws a year ago, yet no one has began impeachment proceedings and his term is nearly finished.
So we have impeachment on paper, just like we have freedom from illegal searches and seizures on paper. The reality is a bit different, it seems.
The truth, as has been made abundantly clear in this thread, is that how things are in Cuba runs counter to US ideals, not the reality of how things are in the US.
What's it like having such a glaring inferiority complex?
>Not one single president has ever been impeached.
More precisely, no impeachment has led to a conviction in the Senate.
>Nixon broke far fewer laws than Bush.
Do you know the specific laws that Nixon broke?
Can you make a legitimate case that Bush violated the law? Which exact laws did he break, when and how, and what evidence do you bring to the table? Do you think you could persuade a Congressional hearing to accept your argument?
Many people are of the opinion that a genuine legal case against Bush is easily made; they accept it as a foregone conclusion. But when it comes time to articulate the case, much of the evidence consists of speculation and prejudice, and the argument tends to be made from a position of ignorance of the law.
It's a good thing that Bush is the soon-to-be-former President and this administration is exiting. I'm no fan or supporter of the Bush-Cheney bunch. But at the same time, even as I accept that there might be a case to be made for impeachment, when you try to view the merits of such a case beyond the armchair analyist phase and start to consider how it would actually go, in terms of procedure and evidence.
Some good arguments have been made, and in particular, Ramsey Clark's Articles of Impeachment make a well-reasoned complaint. But if you had to be the one to take this a step further, what justification would you use for each of these articles and what evidence would you bring? There are strong defenses for some of these complaints, and others while shameful actions, are simply not crimes.
The belief that impeachment is a foregone conclusion actually tends to do harm to the legitimate business of opposition to the current Presidential Administration. Fortunately, it's just about over anyway.
-fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
Cuba's "terrorism" activities consisted mostly of stuff from the 1960s (Castro supported some of the more militant "black power" movements, and one of them was gearing up to blow up the Statue of Liberty), and Castro's support of various pro-Communist movements in Latin America, which stopped about fifteen years ago when the USSR tanked. Even the Congressional Research Service report doesn't point to any concrete instances of terrorist activities out of Cuba in recent years.
The US boycott of Cuba is mostly about getting votes from Cuban exiles in South Florida.
...usually a fork will do.
I imagine it's just the encryption laws that are the main restriction. Fork da projekt and den like remove teh crypto. They'll get a crypto-less OS, and I guess they'll have a reason to employ mathematicians.
The point of why this is a bad move for OLPC isn't just about what's bad with the Cuba export ban specifically. That ban *is* indeed stupid, but this also subverts the international intention of the OLPC project to the narrow whims the US administration.
Perhaps some other country or countries will be declared official enemies next year. Especially if, say, MS and Intel can persuade a US administration that a mandate for Free Software in, say, Peru or Bolivia, is "contrary to US interests". Or even if such a ban is declared for completely unrelated reasons, the OLPC should not allow itself to be derailed by partisan or sensationalist whims of a USA administration.
Buy Text Processing in Python
"the OLPC project now requires all submissions to be hosted in the RedHat Fedora project"
As I understand it, submissions are concerned, not the use of OLPC.
wtf.n0x.org
I agree that sanctions and trade embargoes cause regimes to be more anti-US, more aggressive and more violent, but the big thing here to remember is that as these regimes become more hostile they also become a lesser threat as their society, economy and industries are slowly strangled to death by cutting their ties to outside world. In example if trade would have continued normally with Iran and west after the Islamic revolution, Iran would probably now have many nuclear reactors, have had sooner all equipments and materials to make a nuclear bomb and have a better and more modernly equipped army thus being a bigger threat as it is now.
It should also be noted that sooner or later the people of a country that is in under sanctions and embargoes will rise up and revolt or the inner circle of government makes a coup d'etat and stops the activities that have put the country and it's people under suffering and misery. It may take longer time than sending few carrier groups and marines to the country, but it's still all in all cheaper and more safer method on destroying the regime.
All in all I think that sanctions and embargoes work. They also would work better if all industrialised countries where behind in them. In example of Cuba it's a pity that we Europeans trade with them. I'm sure that if Europe and Canada would now cut all ties to Cuba the regime would collapse in over night as the last breathing holes for the regime would be closed.
Survey research tool for commercial and scientific use
And you suggest that 40,000,000, or 13.5% of the population, is trivial?
This is about 5x the population of the state in which I live. I consider that pretty damned significant.
"Hey, the third matrix movie would have been good except for the plot,story, and acting." --AC
The government in Cuba restricts web access such that even doctors in hospitals do not have it. I know this because I have had correspondence with one whose only outlet is email. The absurdity of keeping a doctor from researching medical information online is beyond comprehension. On the other hand, they can't risk having people finding out that Cuba isn't such a paradise compared to the rest of the western world.
As long as the Cuban govt jails those who would dare speak ill of the government (including journalists), then I'm not too interested in the rants people have about embargoes. Say what you will about our horribly mismanaged government and all, but we can bitch and moan all we want. I doubt you could get away with calling Fidel or Raul an idiot in Cuba.
Bolivarian refers to the revolutionary, Simón Bolívar. I doubt that it was a botched attempt to reference Bolivia, the country. Hugo Chavez calls his policies Bolivarian after the ideas espoused by Bolívar. Hugo Chavez is buddy-buddy with Cuba.
Hope that helps.
Without the US there would be no OLPC. Lovely that you should side with thieves who confiscated everyone's property in Cuba and handed it over to their cronies. Maybe someday you too will have the pleasure of being on the wrong side of that circumstance.
"God fights on the side with the best artillery." - Napoleon, Marshal of France - speaking truth to power
Does this non-anecdotal evidence disagree with you?
U SL2273073120070523
http://www.reuters.com/article/oddlyEnoughNews/id
I suspect your opinion about Americans being assholes has more to do with you than with Americans.
even though geographically it's in Cuba.
Reduce, reuse, cycle
After all these years Castro is still pissed off about all the evil things the US did in his country during the cold war. Castro would sell a whole lot more Cigars if they would just put the past behind them.. ~CIA
So I export it to Bob in the UK, and he resells it to Joe in the UK, and Joe exports it Cuba. Assuming the law requires me to track Bob's business dealings, how am I supposed to know that Joe wasn't an end user?
Here's a perk of living in (even rural) Canada: I go down to the garage/general/liquor store, and there on the shelf is Havana Club, "Ron puro Cubano," mmm, great is right. And cuban coffee in the cupboard, it's only pretty good but it's organic.
There may be long-term competitive benefits accruing to Cuba out of the blockade and its hardships.
The whole island has pretty much gone organic, as part of the austerity produced by the embargo, and they're trying to turn that constraint into a strength. When the embargo finally drops in the US, watch for cuban specialty products showing up in the organic food stores.
They need an internationally credible domestic certification system to really flourish, however the embargo has forced them to look hard at their local food security, so they'd be okay if international trade was interrupted. They have international trade in things like organic fruits and coffee, and they've made interesting innovations with domestic distribution in mind, like the Organopónicos.
The embargo has created constraints that make it an interesting testbed for development without the overwhelming influence of large transnationals. It's a race between the international organic sector to help establish Cuba as an entrenched organic ag system and the influx of Life Sciences transnationals that might happen if there's regime change.
Cuba's ripe turf for donated linux-ready systems, so support that goal in some way. There's enough real zeal for independence and common interests to make it a interesting test bed for a society running on open-source software.
Damn those pesky terrorists
You are aware, of course, that Canada is part of North America?
While it is completely fair to criticize the US for allowing a place like "Gitmo" to exist, the comparison to Cuba's government is not really fair. The US court system has been slowly reining in the Bush administration, and Guantanamo Bay will soon be closed. While it took way too long for this to occur, Cuba has no such system to protect the rights of its own citizens, much less a bunch of foreigners caught (allegedly) subverting the Cuban government.
W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
I question the conclusion here, for two reasons. First, the license that the contributor grants to Red Hat is non-exclusive. If you want your software to be distributable to countries embargoed by the United States, all you have to do is provide it via an additional route. Second, since the hardware is provided by a US source, it is subject to US trade restrictions, so I don't see how restrictions on software further restrict the distribution of OLPCs. If the project can't supply the machines to, e.g., Syria, does it matter if a piece of software cannot be exported to Syria?
How can you possibly say that Cuba "has a much better society than they would have had the American Mafia continued running it." That is pure speculation.
The fact is that Cuba took everything from the rich and... kept it. The plantations are still there, and the same people still work on them. The people of Cuba went from being poor plantation workers to being... poor plantation workers. Sure, they may be doing okay right now, but just 10 years ago they were starving. What other country in the Caribbean had a famine? Haiti, that's who. What a nice club Castro is in there.
Castro promised revolution - he delivered a dictatorship.
Not that I am excusing the US's ridiculous embargo, but Castro brought it on himself by forcing out all of the educated and powerful people. They are still a community and they hold enough political sway in the US to try invasions and sustain embargoes. What did he expect to happen? The rich people would all just go away and not try to get back their homes and power? You keep seeing the same thing with the dictatorships in Africa - the loosing "group" sets up shop in a neighboring country until they are strong enough to start a new rebellion.
W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
It is important to note that those people are without health insurance, not health care. Any one of those 40 million people can walk into any US emergency room and receive treatment - it is illegal to refuse treatment.
It's not an ideal system, and I am a big fan of a health care overhaul - but it doesn't do anyone much good to make the problem seem worse than it is.
W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
I checked all the links (on the first two pages) and none of them said anything remotely like "Cuba is a world leader in biotech". More often it was "we have few resources, so we are creative and efficient."
Link to something that supports your argument please, or admit you can't.
It seems to me that you've bought into a lie and don't realize it.
Also, the next time you are asked for a link, don't be a douche and link to Google. That's just cuntish, and makes it clear you don't have real link. Don't make assertions if you don't have facts to support them.
While I agree with some of what you say, infant deaths rates are LOWER in Cuba then the US https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world -factbook/rankorder/2091rank.html
Cuba has invested in educating the people. On a trip there last year I required a hospital stay and will clearly state that their health system is well run, funded and staffed.
Compare the health related section between Cuba http://globalis.gvu.unu.edu/country.cfm?country=CU and the US http://globalis.gvu.unu.edu/country.cfm?country=US and it is clear that they while they may do a lot of stuff to the negative of their people, health care is not one of them.
The problem is, indeed, that bad. Emergency care is like a bandaid for a bullet-wound for a very large percentage of medical conditions. Chronic and recurring conditions, from asthma to cancer, are not well managed much less treated by punctuated visits to a local emergency room. The problem is that refusing access to health insurance simply prices out a large portion of the population away from management of chronic and recurring illnesses which will, in the end if not treated, kill them much earlier than if they recieved treatment. I agree it is nice that at least we have recognized it is a bad idea to let people die of acute or accidental conditions simply because they are poor, but it is nevertheless the tip of the iceberg.
All the techniques ever used to make men moral have been themselves thoroughly immoral... (Nietzsche)
"and has been at war every year since its inception."
I'd like to see a source for this please. Please provide a link or admit you're a liar.
Notice that given the opportunity they trade the joy of the rusted cage for the horrors of our each man for himself society.
The problem that I have is that people don't talk about the actual difficult decisions that need to be made - health care has to be rationed, but by who and by what criteria? Right now it is obviously rationed by economics. Shall we ration cancer treatment by age? By existing health? Do we preferentially treat a 20-year-old heroin addict over an otherwise healthy 80-year-old?
:)
We have worked this out in other areas - transplants are currently rationed out based on various criteria, for instance. But first we have to admit that not everyone can get free, unlimited health care. Right now the conversation isn't honest or genuine... on the one side you have people resisting any changes at all - which is nuts because there is clearly a problem. On the other side you seem to have people pushing for a full-blown socialist system, which is nuts because it has drawbacks that Americans probably won't accept.
Americans probably will accept some mixed system... some level of rationed, minimal care for the uninsured masses, while still allowing a private system to exist in parallel for people who hold private insurance or have enough money to bypass waiting lists or care rationing. But you never hear anyone proposing this, and so we just have the same silly argument over and over again, ever since Hillary Clinton's report way back in '93.
Her plan was a bit naive in that it included a big pile of government regulation to "improve" health care, but I like that it at least tried to keep much of the system private - if regulated. I think a basic government-run clinic system would be sufficient to take pressure off of emergency rooms and provide some of the longer-term care that you describe. This system should be funded at the Federal level and administered at the state level... while this might increase some complexity, I really like the concept of states acting like laboratories which each can copy from the successes and learn from the mistakes of others.
Oh, and we have to let the government negotiate for drug prices in the clinics!
W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
"@dharbee, I'm actually a liar. The US has engaged in military action every year since 1776."
"has been at war every year since its inception."
So you admit then that you were lying, because "engaged in military action" is not even remotely near "at war". You made both of the above statements, which one is the lie?
As to your source, it's Ward Churchill. That's all that needs to be said about that.
I don't think you're qualified to judge the truthfulness of my statements or my source's statements, given the fact that you just altered a quote of what I'd said to say something different. That's all that needs to be said about that.
now write "AIPAC" fifty thousand times
Wow. Perhaps you are trolling, but if not maybe this will literally save your life.
My wife works in health care. People without insurance go without care unless ones life is in immediate danger. Cancers go untreated, limbs do not get re-attached, faces do not get re-constructed, chronic conditions go untreated. The stories she brings home are heart breaking, and tragic.
If health insurance continues to creep up in price, I simply won't pay and I will take my chances
One question. Who will pay when you need life saving treatment, and you can't afford it?
My wife deals with people who expect her and her clinic to work for free, just because they have a "need". Often they drive better cars, and make more money than her, but expect service for free. She's been mistreated so often by patients with unreasonable expectations, I'm bitter. Why should my family suffer when you refuse to pay for your own life saving treatment? When someone treats you (for ethical reasons), and you go bankrupt, they lose. Clinics close, people go without. One car accident, one bacterial infection, one lump is all it will take to make your happy life turn tragic. You think you're losing out at $20/mo for health coverage? What a fool you are.
Is "at war" the same as "engaged in military action"?
n duct_issues
Have someone else answer that if it makes you feel better, liar. They'll tell you no too.
As to what I altered, I was simply making your statement accurate. Way to avoid admitting I caught you in a lie.
Stop trying so hard to find excuses and just own up. You'll feel better.
And as far as your "source", here's some knowledge for your ass
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ward_Churchill_misco
You "source" is a prove liar too. Two peas in a lying pod you are.
- This has nothing to do with the OLPC Project submitting to the terms of the Fedora Project Individual Contributor License Agreement. It also has NOTHING to do with the GPL. These don't matter, period. The OLPC project is run by Americans, in Cambridge from what I gather. This means that the OLPC project was already subject to US export regulations, regardless of any license agreement or what have you.
- Yes, the hardware is also subject to US export regulations
- The Fedora Project Wiki entry for Legal/Export is outdated and inaccurate. For example, Iraq is still listed under "Embargoed Destinations". Iraq is not embargoed (*somehow* that changed when we invaded)
- There are two US agencies that are important when discussing the Cuba sanctions/embargo. The Department of Commerce and the Treasury Department.
- Here's a nice 6 page overview of the US embargo of Cuba from the Office of Foreign Assets Control (Treasury). Notice the text stating:
To whom do these sanctions regulations apply?All U.S. citizens and permanent residents wherever they are located, all people and organizations physically in the United States, and all branches and subsidiaries of U.S. organizations throughout the world
- And here's a nice overview from the Bureau of Industry and Security (Commerce) discussing exports and reexports to Cuba. Note that you will need to obtain a license from BIS for shipping something like an Xbox or OLPC to Cuba. Also note that there is a general policy of denial in place (meaning it's unlikely that these exports will be authorized by BIS)
- No, you can't be a "middle man" or you'd be violating US export control regulations. There are these pesky things called General Prohibitions that, you know, "prohibit" certain things. General Prohibition 10 in Part 736 of the Export Administration Regulations states:
You may not
sell, transfer, export, reexport, finance, order,
buy, remove, conceal, store, use, loan, dispose of,
transfer, transport, forward, or otherwise service,
in whole or in part, any item subject to the EAR
and exported or to be exported with knowledge
that a violation of the Export Administration
Regulations, the Export Administration Act or
any order, license, License Exception, or other
authorization issued thereunder has occurred, is
about to occur, or is intended to occur in
connection with the item
The US export regulations are the broadest in the world, with more unilateral controls than other other country. I could write a friggin book here, but I'll stop before I ramble any further. Let's just sum it up by saying that this article really isn't news at all and nothing has changed for the OLPC project (in regards to export controls). Microsoft can't ship Windows or an Xbox to Cuba, and the OLPC project won't be selling laptops to the Cuban government unless they get a license for it.Apparently not the interstate ;/)
Oh, I'm sorry sir, I thought you were referring to me, Mr. Wensleydale.
That's one of the most insightful posts I've seen on this topic.
Why aren't the many thousand's of naturalized chinese in the US screaming for an embargo against their homeland? Probably because they realize that it really harms the innocent while it benefits neither side. I wish the Cuban exile community saw it this way. But as many have said already, Big Sugar also has a lot to do with the continued embargo.
What if the Hokey Pokey really is what it's all about?
What if you got in a car accident? Had a previously unknown heart defect? Fell down a flight of stairs and broke your back?
Many young people think they don't need health insurance because they're healthy. Well, you're healthy now, but an accident could make you very unhealthy very quickly, and your medical bills could easily be more than you could possibly afford. In that situation, taxpayers end up paying your way.
Try this New York Magazine article which includes the story of a healthy young guy with no health insurance who got appendicitis.
This
"Sorry, no."
Proves this
"I suspect your opinion about Americans being assholes has more to do with you than with Americans."
I stopped reading immediately after that first "sentence" because it was clear my assessment was correct, and anything you had to say would be another baseless rant with no real substance.
I'm sure I was right about that too.
"US citizens are responsible for the actions of their government."
d =19680995
And you are responsible for admitting your lies. I proved in black and white that you are a liar, so why haven't you done the right thing and admitted it?
Right here is the proof, why aren't you taking responsibility for your lies?
http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=242723&ci
Admit your lies please.
Yes it's better to leave book bans to school boards and the like. "Harry Potter promotes witchcraft" and all that American jazz. George Orwell's 1984 was attacked by American pressure groups as communist propaganda. See the irony there?
Or were you really saying that the CIA, makers of the CIA World Factbook, are left-leaning? Someone tell the prez!
I agree wholeheartedly that the calculus of resource distribution is hideously complicated in the case of Health Care. What especially seems to complicate the matter are two factors: one, we have a hard time coming to terms with monetizing the worth of human life (an eminently reasonable hestitation, I think), and two, sickness and health are hideously unpredictable factors where things even as simple as length of treatment cannot be determined ahead of time.
My thing is we can make even reasonable conservative assumptions about these factors and still come to a conclusion that strongly tends towards the favorability of greatly expanding care. For example, economically everyone suffers when a person is sick, and benefits when a person is well. Even a poor laborer who is sick is a huge potential economic liability for society, as his capacity to continue earning not only affects his employer (who depends on his labor) but also his family, and the likelihood that they will maintain or improve their living circumstances (which relates to the probabilities that they will engage in behaviors, like crime, that are economically net-negatives).
If a smoothly functioning productive society is a healthy society, then we should err a bit on the side of improving care despite increasing costs, till at least we reach a level of strictly diminishing returns. I think a mixed system might work, but only if there were a serious (not simply nominal) attempt to provide decent subsidized medical coverage for preventative care and a decent amount of continuing or chronic care, such that those who depend upon supplementary private coverage are driven to doing so for reasons of comfort and not necessity. I don't believe that the HMO industry will want for customers in such a situation; they can still sell their Lexuses and Rolls Royces of medical coverage even if everyone is guaranteed a Toyota Corolla, and people capable of paying will undoubtedly still buy it.
All the techniques ever used to make men moral have been themselves thoroughly immoral... (Nietzsche)
*** So, no OLPC for Cuba, Syria and the like. Ever." ***
Good.
Just thinking, they got pissed and threw Lansky and buddies out for "exploiting" them during the Batista regime. We haven't exploited them for the past 40+ years and now they're pissed about *that*.
Jesus is coming -- look busy!
And, as another poster put it sharply, nobody 'chooses' to not have health insurance.
First off, you can't say that "nobody" makes that choice, not in a population of 40 million. I guarantee there's at least one person who has knowingly chosen not to have health insurance.
Second, the self-employed who do not have health insurance do choose not to have it, because, for them, it's better to be self-employed without insurance than to work for someone else and have it. You might not agree with their rationale, but there are millions of people who share it, and it seems to work for them in the main.
Lastly, children suffer the consequences of their parents decisions. That's life, and it convey any responsibility on you or me to change things for them. You can't force adults to conform to your values, not without sacrificing some pretty important values (like liberty) along the way.
God invented whiskey so the Irish would not rule the world.
Weaving through the nitpicks... :)
I guarantee there's at least one person who has knowingly chosen not to have health insurance.
Of course, you are right. At least one almost certainly exists. I figured I was communicating with an audience that could distinguish between descriptive statments meant to generalize over a class and those that are meant to apply directly to every member of that class. If it makes you feel better, I'll insert the word "nearly" before "nobody" and now there is no more ambiguity of that sort.
Second, the self-employed who do not have health insurance do choose not to have it, because, for them, it's better to be self-employed without insurance than to work for someone else and have it...
I strongly suspect that they "choose" not to have insurance because they "choose" to prioritize their shelter and food over health when making economic decisions for themselves. This "choice" is due to the inaccessibility by price of private insurance to individuals as opposed to plans bundled with corporate employment.
Lastly, children suffer the consequences of their parents decisions. That's life, and it convey any responsibility on you or me to change things for them. You can't force adults to conform to your values, not without sacrificing some pretty important values (like liberty) along the way.
That is true to a point. However, one cannot be so obtuse as to recognize that independent of their parents, children are *human beings* and as such have the right to pursue their continued right to exist, above and beyond some conception of parental sovereignty over childrens' lives. If a parent makes a decision callously indifferent to the continued survival of a child under their care, it is not a significant "infringement of liberty" to either aid the child apart from the parents' wishes or remove te child from the care of the person who gives no weight to their continued health. As you elude, these sorts of chains of logic if not mitigated by a proper respect of domain can lead to infringements of *real* parental rights, such as teaching a child whatever values they desire and correcting and punishing children within certain bounds of reason (a parent does not have the right, for example, to torture a child in order to enforce discipline). But the idea that a parent abrogates their responsibility for the basic care of their child is a "too bad, so sad, but not my problem" sort of situation is morally repugnant and unduly eliminative of a society's role in protecting its members from harm not resultant from that own members' actions.
All the techniques ever used to make men moral have been themselves thoroughly immoral... (Nietzsche)
First, isn't it true that the non-refusal of treatment that you're thinking of is life-saving emergency treatment, as opposed to the more usual ailments that make up most health care? Second, treatment may be offered to the non-insured, but the cost could very well be personal bankruptcy.
Is that why trips to the US from places like Europe and Canada are at an all-time low? There are two major issues on which every civilized nation in the world except the United States has fallen in one place: death penalties and universal healthcare.
Please, for the good of Humanity, vote Obama.
How is referencing facts from the Central Intelligence Agency socialism?
Please, for the good of Humanity, vote Obama.
So then why do we see Cuban's risking their lives on makeshift rafts trying to reach Florida soil unnoticed so they can claim amnesty? They do this leaving all their possesions behind, knowing that if they succeed they will not be able to return, and if they don't succeed and are turned back at sea, they will likely be punished for their actions when they arrive back in Cuba. If things are so good in Cuba, why would anyone bother trying to escape to Florida? It can't just be the higher standard of living because they try to escape to Mexico too, only Mexico sends Cubans back when they find them. Maybe Cubans should build slightly better boats and head south to Venezuela. I hear they have a good health care system.
You're right of course, but go have a look at the US/Mexican border on Google Earth some time. There's a hell of a lot more cars backed up on one side than the other. Maybe one side just has really slow border control...
"Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife
I was in Cuba in February. A local asked for a copy of the English-language edition of Granma (the only national newspaper and mouthpiece of the Party). We started chatting, and, discussing food, he told me about a drink made out of sugar-cane; I told him about maple syrup.
Then a policeman whistled him over and took away his ID card. I insisted that the card be returned, and then both of us were taken to the police station. No problem for me, but the local got about twenty minutes of questioning before his release.
Cuba's a nice place to visit. The education system and healthcare systems are probably good. But for the Cuban people it remains a police state.
The embargo is counter-productive though. Of course it impoverishes the island, but it also gives Castro a bogeyman to blame for all the problems. Cuba would become free faster if the embargo were lifted.
Red Hat Fedora Rawhide is certainly available in countries under US embargo. It can be legally exported (or just downloaded) to countries where it can be legally exported/downloaded to these countries. Why would OLPC's distribution be any different, regardless of the Red Hat license? This stuff is all under GPL or some other Free/Open Source license.
This is actually a much more complicated question than the poster makes out. It is true that the US does not permit computer exports to Cuba, Iran, North Korea, Sudan, or Syria. (Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, and Pakistan have been removed from the list.) [source: Commerce Dept. Web site] However, it is not necessary to export them from the US in order to get them to those countries. The computers will be made in Shanghai (that is, inside Communist China), by a Taiwanese company, Quanta (which also makes iPods, among other things). I have no idea what the legal status of such products is under US law, nor do I know whether its status under US law even matters.
But suppose OLPC can't sell computers made outside to US to some country. What if China were to take out a manufacturing license to support their 150 million+ children and a few others around the world?
What if the design were put out under an Open Source hardware license?
I don't doubt that there would be a political outcry if XO clones appeared in embargoed countries. Doubtless there would be investigations and all the rest. But actual criminal charges? I don't know, and I don't think you do either, for any random value of "you".
"A knot!" said Alice, ever ready to be useful. "Oh, do let me help to undo it!"
I think you might be confusing Cuba with the Middle East.
"Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife
No: If Cuba wants toe embargo lifted, they have to destroy the farmers' lobbyists. Either that, or wait until I run for President in twenty some odd years.
There fixed it for ya.
I want health insurance with a $5000 deductible. Of course I want to pay much less for it.
You have to do a few horrible things to people with no health insurance or else there'd be no incentive. The reason HMOs were created, however, is to convince the healthy to subsidize the sick. Group policies are the product of retarded tax laws.
When was that? Evidence please.
The exception to never, ever is in the case where haliburton sells goods and services to iran illegally. Cuba does not train and sponsor terrorists but iran does. Go figure...
"Suppose you were an idiot...and suppose you were a member of Congress...but I repeat myself." Mark Twain
with his new film Roger and my Sicko Columbine OLPC is running at Fahrenheit 911
Why should we be giving these terrorist regimes access to technology to help them kill us?
It's about 2 mouse clicks and six words to install EToys into a squeak image. I fail to understand the point of this article - EToys is probably being used in Cuba already as it's a great environment to let kids loose in, see http://www.squeakland.org/
I've been there twice, and the cuban people really suffer. The embargo halted a lot of technology entering the country, making it a live museum for tourists, but even without the embargo they would be too poor to afford any of it. There is a lot of prostitution from poor girls (their own will, not pushed by pimps). Since the russian stopped their money-feed, the economy is turning into a tourism-only income. The only people besides the government who have it good are the owners of the "casas particular" who earn tourist money by renting out 2 rooms in their house.
The cuban government watch their people closely, and you could reported by a neighborhood spy for having an unfavorable opinion on the government. It is forbidden for a cuban to approach a tourist or sit at the same table in a bar. Yet it happens, tourists driven towards the authentic bars and neighborhoods by romantic Buena Vista Social Club tunes are meeting cubans hungry for democracy and freedom. They are educating themselves indeed, but not via the government. It takes another president to understand that democracy and freedom is possible without capitalism. Maybe a few other presidents. Let's hope they get there peacefully.
So the embargo will not throw over the government, tourism will.
Sadly the OLPC project should not be a US one. The US has some of the most foolish embargos. Picking RH is an additional foolishness that would prevent OLPC from global adoption, simply because of the foolishness of the US.
First, our states are about the same as your contries. Do you know ALL of the American states AND the Canadian provinces? Does even most Europeans? I seriously doubt that.
/. can do this (there is a bit of a educated group here).
Disregarding that, taking one data point (yourself) makes NO sense. If you want to, I can point out all of the NA, SA, Oceania and European (though I do have issues with some of African and Asian; 35 years since studying geography does that). In fact, I would guess that most, if not nearly all, of the ppl on
You say that most Americans do not know the difference between Sweden vs. Switzerland. Actually, I think that most American do KNOW which is Switzerland. I would guess that they are going to mix Sweden and Finland. And at this time, the average American may get wrong a lot of the Eastern EU. One of the issues with Europe is that your borders have been re-drawn so many times (due to WWII/cold war). No doubt the current group of kids are learning it, and my kids will certainly tell me that I mixed up Estonia and Latvia, but they will know.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
I agree. However the part about watching their people is not just them. This also happens in almost every South and Central American country, and increasingly in the Northern ones as well. People not having money to buy stuff is also correct however could this not be due at least in part to the embargo. The revolution could not have happened if there was not frustration with the system. There were problems then as now. However I would guess that being pimped by your own people is better than by a foreign power. The fact that there is poverty, as in all underdeveloped countries is a by product of many policies. I have never thought much of Castro but I can not say that he has been an altogether asshat either. It must be hard to run a country while your nearest neighbor is scheming to kill/overthrow you, blocking trade, funding mercenaries and ex pats, constantly enticing people to defect and all.The Cuban population of Florida is not devoid of their own problems either. I can honestly say that when I worked there I met many people who believed that life was meaningful and that the future would be better. These people were not planning on leaving, but hoping to find a solution to their problems.
"If the King's English was good enough for Jesus, it's good enough for me!" -- "Ma" Ferguson, Governor of Texas (circa
How many Soviet Nukes could be bought with profits from the Castro familly farm? I'd guess none. But hey, I'm sure Castro's familly have faced economic hardship once "the people" got what was rightfully thiers.
Goerge W Bush also went to school. I hope it works as well for Cuba as it did for him.
oops.
What may not be done is SOMEONE IN THE US EXPORTING. That isn't banning anyone from exporting so it isn't a license restriction.
I would also point to Windows OSs being available in Cuba. Is MS's EULA illegal? After all, it doesn't forbid sale to Cuba, so it's illegal.
Or are you a retard?
"Whatever it takes."
I guess this explains why you think it's ok to lie when you post.
It's not, and you're a liar. I caught you and you ran and hid instead of owning up to your proven lie.
Stop lying, liar.
There are some interesting points in here. There are a few things I want to rehash, though:
This "choice" is due to the inaccessibility by price of private insurance to individuals as opposed to plans bundled with corporate employment.
This is generally true (though not as much as many think, private insurance is sometimes cheaper than that offered by employers, especially mine). However, it doesn't remove the fact that, to many people, being "their own boss" is more important than anything else. If health insurance were more important, they would work for a larger company, or make sacrifices somewhere else in their budget, to get that insurance.
As for children who aren't covered, I should have brought this up before: there already exist programs for children to get free or cheap health insurance, if their parents don't have their own for whatever reason. So any children who are not currently covered are not because their parents have not signed up for these programs, perhaps due to ignorance of their existence. So the solution isn't to create a monstrous bureaucracy, it is to inform people of the choices they have available to them already.
And, no, I'm not referring to Medicaid, I'm referring to programs run by states to provide private health insurance to children.
God invented whiskey so the Irish would not rule the world.
lol, what the fuck do you know about lol that you didn't see on lol?
You're a lol fucking lol, bitch. Get a clue and pull your dick out of your ass for just a minute and drop your Communist apologist routine long enough so we can snip it off and serve it up to you with a wrapper with lol written on it, so you can lol it right down your throat until you lol the remains of your would-be chemical addled lolbabies all over your mom's basement.
Also, the State Department has been nailing US citizens who have visited Cuba without authorization with very stiff fines.
Could this have anything to do with the US Military using their base in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba as an illegal prison? Out of sight, out of mind.
The reason why they're smiling so much when you give them your 'imperialist' dollars is because they Have To. Anybody who would break the illusion might just have their families on the blacklist.
Think about what you're describing as positive points... None of those things are impossible without communism. In other words, you don't have to give up everything you have, your rights, your freedom, just to have good education and healthcare.
How do you think things got the way they are in Cuba? Do you think it was a Food Not Bombs commie-punk circle jerk which magically made the country fall into ruin?
They took everything by force, not by a peaceful decision to march along with Marxism. Communism was forced upon the Cuban people, and nobody with any sense should see that as a good way to political change.
I think you make some interesting points. However, I think that something which runs beneath your arguments is an unspoken presumption that I think is evidentially problematic: human beings are rational cost/benefit maximizers. I don't believe that people, even in regards to large or life-changing decision, tend to use exclusively or even preferentially the logical-rational mode to make decisions. Emotionality, sentimentality, schizotypy, and prejudice tend to be at least equal factors to reason in any major decision. As such, while I agree that increasing the size or ponderousness of a bureaucracy is not a solution, simply advertising options and presenting choices often is not sufficient (especially when the goal is to induce a person to act on behalf of a disabled actor over whom they hold responsibility, such as their child).
Likewise, while the decision to remain self-employed can in many cases be due to a simple preference to "not have a boss", that decision and the resultant impoverishment of health coverage has effects (economic and social) that radiate far outside of the domain of that person. Since as you say (and I agree) it is important that a society not interfere with the choice simpliciter to not have a boss which for that person seems to better approach their pursuit of fulfillment, happiness, etc., that nonetheless a society can and should act to limit the impact or frequency of those negative effects to others that result from the decision. Since the pursuit of happiness and the actions and states that a person chooses to achieve it need not be and usually are not strictly logical, any social system of support should operate in a mode that is effective even in the relative absence of rational actors.
All the techniques ever used to make men moral have been themselves thoroughly immoral... (Nietzsche)
Interesting to note that although Americans ranked as the overall 2nd favorite type of tourists, the article gave _not one single reference_ as to why Americans are in fact ***liked***.
AAMOF, the article seemed to skip over just such a reference in any way possible, even preferring to explain instead why some nationalities are disliked.
Huh?
Pardon me, Reuters - your obvious anti-American bias is showing...
Stop Paying Taxes. Start a revolution. Or move out of the USA.
I Live in Argentina, I Don't vote, since I'm againt the current system. I Don't pay my taxes, and i don't care. I Do something about it, I complain, I Write.
WTF am I doing replying to an AC at 5 A.M on a Friday night?