Do Not Call Listings to Expire in 2008

Ant writes "Yahoo! News report that the cherished dinner hour void of telemarketers could vanish next year for millions of people when phone numbers begin dropping off the national/United States (U.S.)'s Do Not Call list. The Federal Trade Commission (FTC), which oversees the list, says there is a simple fix. But some lawmakers think it is a hassle to expect people to re-register their phone numbers every five years. Numbers placed on the registry, begun in June 2003, are valid for five years. For the millions of people who signed onto the list in its early days, their numbers will automatically drop off beginning next June if they do not enroll again."

Comments

Does the DNC list even mean anything?

[Anonymous Coward]

My mobile # is on the DNC list and I still get calls. I have filed complaints with them and still get the same people calling over and over again. Emperion Marketing (505 647 9618)is my worst offender. I keep getting calls from these asshats, though I have called them and told them to take me off the list. I have filed 4 complaints about them and it hasn't done a thing.

BTW, register your number here https://www.donotcall.gov/register/Reg.aspx

Re:Does the DNC list even mean anything?

[GreyPoopon]

keep getting calls from these asshats, though I have called them and told them to take me off the list. I have filed 4 complaints about them and it hasn't done a thing.

You do realize that you can take them to small claims court yourself, right? I strongly suggest that you keep a log of their calls and anything you tell them.

Re:Does the DNC list even mean anything?

[nurb432]

If you have ever done business with them, or a subsidiary, then the DNC doesn't even apply. ( which i think is bogus, but its how it works in my state anyway )

Re:Does the DNC list even mean anything?

[drspliff]

I had a call today from a company trying to offer me a loan, did the usual stuff asking them to remove me from whatever list I was on and to stop calling - they said to call back on a number (national rate, about 10p a min) only to get transferred to the "customer relations" department which never picked up.

Then 3 hours later I get an advertisment SMS from the same company, call back up, get transferred again, and the "customer relations" department never picked up - again.

I've been on the UK TPS (Telephone Preference Service, the UK do not call list) for several years, but still get these stupid companies calling up that I have no idea who they are (so obviously they cant have a previous "relationship" with me).

I finally got through to the customer relations department after 20 minutes on hold, explained to them that they can be fined upto £5000 for every offence only to be told I have to write in to their marketing department to get it removed.

I mean seriously, WTF! I've spent about £5 on phone calls today just trying to sort it out with this asshole company, only to be flogged off with a standard excuse and a PObox address.

Re:Does the DNC list even mean anything?

[Stripe7]

Anyone telemarketer or charity who calls me loses any chance business with me. I hang up take note of who called and never do business with them again.

Re:Does the DNC list even mean anything?

[hedwards]

True, but with commercial ventures you can opt out if you have a business relationship with them. although what that actually is tends to be somewhat vague.

Nonprofits tend to be the worst, and they are left completely unregulated. During the campaign season it gets really bad, with 7 or 8 calls a night from a computer program to deliver a message. I usually hang up on them.

Even during the rest of the year we frequently get calls from somebody that isn't on the other end of the phone, usually all I get is a click and several seconds of silence. Those I just hang up on, if they can't be bothered to be present when I answer, I'm certainly not going to consider it important enough to wait for them to come to the phone.

Re:Does the DNC list even mean anything?

[ajs]

Booth was a patriot I always wonder about people who say this. It's a horribly ambiguous statement. It could mean that you feel that Booth was acting in a patriotic way in killing the President of the United States (kind of an odd thing to think, but there it is). The other take would be that Booth, a patriot, committed the most unpatriotic of acts in the name of this misguided sentiment. Presumably this would be intended as a cautionary comment on the nature of blind patriotism.

I just don't see how such a deeply ambiguous comment is a useful expression (unless it's just intended to annoy people like me that actually pay attention to what other say, but then wouldn't this be counter-productive in the extreme... encouraging only people who don't take you seriously?)

Re:Does the DNC list even mean anything?

[nurb432]

Its there to make people think. In your case, it seems to have done its job.

Re:Does the DNC list even mean anything?

[nurb432]

Those 'dead lines' are often automated dialer's. Once they get a connection they notify the first available person.

I think they are banned here in my area. If you are going to bug me, you have to do it yourself :)

Re:Does the DNC list even mean anything?

[Anonymous Coward]

Hey, Bubba: Don't u know that when no one is there when u answer, it mostly means a computer dialing
program is calling to see if someone does answer?? Then a real person/telemarketer can call assuming
they will get to you.

That's why I screen ALL my calls thru an answering machine b4 I pick up. 95% of them, no one says
anything and the machine hangs up after a few seconds.

Re:Does the DNC list even mean anything?

[Black Copter Control]

Two words: Private Prosecution.

Even if the prosecution fails because only the Attorney General is allowed to file, it might shame the government into taking the action that it was supposed to in the first place. (and make sure that the phone company saves the logs of your calls).

Re:Does the DNC list even mean anything?

[dwarfking]

This is supposed to be true, but I keep getting hit with a loophole that I can't get anyone to do anything about.

I moved 2 years ago and got a new number, which had previously been assigned to some woman who apparently bought all kinds of pharmaceuticals by phone. To this day we get calls 3 - 4 times a week from a call center manned by folks that speak accented English trying to sell us drugs. We tell them over and over to remove the number from their list.

Once I finally got the idiot to put a supervisor on. He claimed that they had prior business with the phone number, not the person, and could keep calling back. I said even if that were true, which it wasn't, they hadn't had a relationship in over a year so now they were required by law to take the number off their list.

His response: he asked if I wanted to buy any drugs.

I've filed numerous complaints with the FTC, once found out what state the company was registered in and filed complaints with the Secretary of the State where they were and in my own state. No one does any damn thing about it.

So as usual, all the DNC list is, is a worthless piece of guvment propaganda legislation to allow the elected officials to claim they did something about the problem. Best solution I have at the moment is to block any calls with "Unknown" in caller ID since they seem to hide their originating phone numbers now, probably to prevent using number block.

Typical garbage.

Re:Does the DNC list even mean anything?

[mhall119]

Even during the rest of the year we frequently get calls from somebody that isn't on the other end of the phone, usually all I get is a click and several seconds of silence. Those I just hang up on, if they can't be bothered to be present when I answer, I'm certainly not going to consider it important enough to wait for them to come to the phone. A better solution is to _not_ hang up, because once you hang up it frees a phone line for them to call someone else, every second you keep the line open reduces their call rate, which reduces the money they make. I frequently ask telemarketers to "hold on just a second" and put the phone on the table for like 5 minutes. Amusingly, sometimes the telemarketer is still there waiting, in which case I tell them "sorry, I'll be just one more second" and go about whatever I was doing for another 5-10 minutes.

Re:Does the DNC list even mean anything?

[TapedeckNinja]

Just FYI: Some mobile carriers explicitly state in their contracts that you will allow telemarketing firms to contact you. Your number being added to the National DNC List may be meaningless if this is the case. I would contact your mobile service provider first, to see what their policy is, as some mobile carriers tie in with telemarketing firms and other forms of direct advertisement to provide additional guaranteed revenue.

Re:Does the DNC list even mean anything?

[Trillan]

That's awesome. I'm definitely using this. All I need is some truly horrible hold music...

Re:Does the DNC list even mean anything?

[mhall119]

All I need is some truly horrible hold music... I have toddlers.

Re:Does the DNC list even mean anything?

[Anonymous Coward]

I finally got through to the customer relations department after 20 minutes on hold, explained to them that they can be fined upto £5000 for every offence only to be told I have to write in to their marketing department to get it removed.

WTF kind of a national list is it, then? You should be off their list by default and should not have to take ANY action to be removed, as you should not be on it in the first place.

Re:Does the DNC list even mean anything?

[bloodstar]

You obviously realize a lot of this depends on the state laws. DNCs are regulated by both the state and FTC (As well as the FCC), which makes an incredible mis-mash of laws. In addition there are two types of EBRs (Established (or Existing) Business Relationship), Inquiry or Transactional. Inquiry means you call them asking for more information, Transactional means you've purchased or have an ongoing relationship with said company. Typically there is a 3 Month EBR for inquiry, and 18 months for transactional (that's the base law set by the FTC), but those lengths can be overruled by the state regulations. For example: ALaska, arkansas does not permit any inquiry Indiana, Wisconsin and New Jersey, typically have no EBR Exemptions permitted at all.

It's a case where you have to look the information up by state. As far as the subsidiary parent exemption being passed up or down, that's something I can't answer. But you can check with your state AG and see what he or she says.

Re:Does the DNC list even mean anything?

[Anonymous Coward]

He claimed that they had prior business with the phone number, not the person, and could keep calling back.

Probable horseshit. Tell him you'll be checking with your state attorney general and the Federal Trade Commission -- they're the ones who instituted and are supposed to be enforcing the list -- and will be back with a lawsuit if the pharmafuck's BSing you.

His response: he asked if I wanted to buy any drugs.

Tell him you'd rather he smashed a beer bottle and rammed the shards up his boyfriend's ass with his dick. Or tell him to massage his girlfriend's clit with the shards.

Either way, the mental images should mess up his next few sexual encounters.

Re:Does the DNC list even mean anything?

[QMO]

I've done a couple of things like that.

Once I asked to speak to a manager, which meant that I was using the phone line and 2 people. When the mnanager got on, I explained that I was just trying to make that business model a little less profitable.

Once I offered to sell the telemarketer something (a doorstop-oblolete computer for $3000), and got pretty insistent about it.

Re:Does the DNC list even mean anything?

[Lord Apathy]

Fuck the DNC list. When I had a land line, don't have this problem anymore, a few years ago. I figured there was only one way to handle it and build myself a call screening box. Here's how it worked. I got a modem that did the caller id thing. Then I sniffed around and found a program that would screen my calls. There where tons of them but the links I had to the free one are no longer any good. Do a google search I guess to find them now.

Here is how it worked. I had two lists a fuck off list and ring through list. The program would ring on the computer when some one was calling so the computer would ring. I turned off the ringer on the phone. When someone called that was on the fuck off list, private number, or blocked or unlisted, the program would simply pick up the phone then hand up. It would never even ring.

If you where not on ether list then you got dumped into voice mail to leave a message. Again the computer wouldn't even ring. If you got dumped into my voice mail and didn't leave a message I added you to the fuck off list. So if the computer didn't know you and you where to lazy to leave a message fuck you.

If you where on my white list then the computer would ring letting me know I had a call. My annoying phone calls went to almost nothing. They went to nothing a year later when I ripped the fucking phone out by the wires.

Re:Does the DNC list even mean anything?

[Anonymous Coward]

You kept blocking our e-mails to you telling you of great services and
products that will improve your quality of life. Since we care about
you so much, you have forced us to call you on your cell phone. We
will continue to do so . . .days, nights, weekends, holidays.

Re:Does the DNC list even mean anything?

[Speed Pour]

My problem is worse than that. My private cell phone is registered on the list and I still get frequent calls, mostly from fly-by-night groups offering small business loans or from office supply companies. At first I asked to be removed, but when call volume reached 4-5 a day, I started insisting on asking how they got the number. Most would hang up on me the instant they realized I wasn't worth a sale, some would at least admit they didn't know. The only excuse that has been given is that my number was sold to them as a business and therefore they don't have to subscribe to the registry to filter out numbers (yes, I know that's misinformation/lying, but they usually hang up before I can get in another word)

I have moved to asking to speak to managers and telling them to give me information, but they often ignore me outright. I've collected as many numbers and names as I can, but many of the calls have their caller id info blocked (something I think phone companies should prevent businesses from doing legally). So far I'm not any closer to finding the company that sold my number, but I am eager to get that information, which will quickly lead to a call to a lawyer and a few internet postings (especially to slashdot so that others can join in attacking companies that disregard the law and lead to harassment of people.

Re:Does the DNC list even mean anything?

[ncohafmuta]

He claimed that they had prior business with the phone number, not the person, and could keep calling back.
Then he should be trying to sell drugs to the phone company, they own the number.

-Tony

Re:Does the DNC list even mean anything?

[Oliver Wendell Jones]

I have a fancy Caller ID box that does the same thing. In addition to Caller ID and a phone directory, it has two additional lists - a Pager list and a Block list. Numbers you add to the Pager list will cause the box to dial your pager when you receive a call, and the Block list will pick up, wait a half second and then hang up - the phone does ring the one time which is still a bit annoying, but if you make it a point to wait for a second ring then you know that it's not one of the phone numbers you have blocked.

Re:Does the DNC list even mean anything?

[Trillan]

...that might be too far. They're only tele-marketers, after all. :)

Re:Does the DNC list even mean anything?

[MooUK]

Remember, national rate numbers EARN money for the party at the other end of the line. They want you to keep calling and earning them more money. This is why I refused to call TV licensing to order them not to send me any more threats, but instead emailed them.

Re:Does the DNC list even mean anything?

[MooUK]

Recently I get Indians calling from a phone company. They tend to hang up on me rather than the other way round.

Re:Does the DNC list even mean anything?

[Drathos]

During the campaign season it gets really bad, with 7 or 8 calls a night from a computer program to deliver a message. I usually hang up on them. You think that's bad? Last fall, I came home from spending a half day with some friends to find 34 messages on my machine. Almost all of them were a recording: 'This was a political survey call. We'll try again later.'

Then there was 'The Battle of the Answering Machine.' Opposing candidates were leaving pre-recorded messages on my machine smearing each other. Final tally was 178 messages (nearly 50-50 split) over the span of 3 weeks. Gotta love Virginia campaigning..

Re:Does the DNC list even mean anything?

[nevillethedevil]

I have had the same problem. I was recently recieving calls from the local mayoral candidates hoping to count on my vote. Ironic seeing as how I am not yet eligible to vote (Just a permanat resident not a citizen). My favourite was the recorded message which had every sentence repeat itself twice before moving on. If you are going to piss me off with bogus messages at leat make sure the machine is working.

Re:Does the DNC list even mean anything?

[Dread Pirate Skippy]

You realize of course, that an answering machine still has to "pick up" the line, thus if it is indeed a computer calling only to verify that a number is valid, it will still find that yours most assuredly is?

Re:Does the DNC list even mean anything?

[morcego]

I have to stories of my on regarding telemarketing:

1) Someone call from a company I'm already a client. So I start asking question after question, getting to a point were the caller would no longer know how to answer, and then would transfer me to someone else. After about 45 minutes, I told them I was already a client of them, and I would also be canceling, since I don't do business with that kind of company

2) "Oh, I'm so glad you called. I was feeling so lonely and wanting a person to talk to" ... Lasted for about 13 minutes.

Re:Does the DNC list even mean anything?

[analog_line]

I have filed 4 complaints about them and it hasn't done a thing.

BTW, register your number here https://www.donotcall.gov/register/Reg.aspx

So you found the Do Not Call List utterly useless, yes you think everyone should go subscribe to it? Interesting...

Re:Does the DNC list even mean anything?

[drspliff]

The irony of this is that the company I work for probably provides the 0870 number I called them on.

Either way, their abusing the TPS by following the guidelines but presuming that people won't go to the hassle of reporting them or mailing in to get themselfs removed from the list.

I really can't be bothered to go through the trouble of taking this to court, when they'll probably prove that I have a "technical" prior relationship with them through some sister company (any company I've entered my telephone number with in the past 6 months, like my bank or my co-lo company etc.) and that my claim isn't valid.

I got bored with winding up telemarketers that called me and started getting angry instead, maybe I'll start winding them up again and play the "how long can I keep them on the line" game, passing them through to a never-ending "please wait while we transfer you" call queue that's usually reserved for difficult customers :)

Re:Does the DNC list even mean anything?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, the one ring thing is annoying. I heard about a new box out there that DOESN'T have the 1st
ring...I think the name is "CallSilencer" or "Call Silencer" (or something like that). If anyone
knows where to get one, I'd like to know.

I worry that the upcoming 2008 Presidential election will have a ton of calls, so we better brace
ourselves. Has anyone heard about VOIP calls from India, since long-distance is virtually
free now? Now we have to deal with annoying accents too!!

Someone needs to make a box which repeats exactly what the telemarketer says, but louder!!!

Re:Does the DNC list even mean anything?

[toddestan]

One free program I have found that actually works is Phonetray, that can be found here. I'm not associated with them in anyway, just thought I might be able to save some people some time as I had to try a bunch of other freebies before I found one that worked.

Re:Does the DNC list even mean anything?

[Lord Apathy]

You know. I think that is the program.

Re:Does the DNC list even mean anything?

[DiEx-15]

I just go "The Voices!!!! They're telling me to KILL!!!"... You'd be surprised how many times that has worked!

_____
"If truth in advertising still existed, the cable company's new logo would be 'We Own Your Ass!'"

Re:Does the DNC list even mean anything?

[penguin_dance]

Also charities AND political fund raisers are exempt (ain't THAT a bitch--the politicos put in a loophole for THEM!)

That's my mom's problem. They keep calling for my dad. Dad passed away earlier this year and understandably mom doesn't want to tell them her husband's dead. They ask for him--she tells them not to call, but they just ignore her and say they'll call later. Obviously they just see mom as being some sort of roadblock to a donation.

ONE of these days I'm going to be there when they call.... I don't think they're going to like that day. Another option is to impersonate my dad and tell them to go f*ck themselves.

In our state you CAN tape the phone call as long as one party (yourself) knows it's being recorded. If it comes to that, I will set that up and take their ass to small claims court. It's one thing to be exempt to DNC, it's another to KEEP calling after repeatedly being told not to call any more.

Re:Does the DNC list even mean anything?

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, I'm pretty sure that it's the caller, not the callee, that breaks the call. If the person who dialled puts down the phone, the link is broken. If they don't, it's not.

It's a trick burglars use to prevent alarms from phoning the police/head office/etc. It can also mean that someone can prevent you from calling the police or ambulance service, for example.

Re:Does the DNC list even mean anything?

[tetrode]

Heared about OFCOM? Google for it, try there.

Re:Does the DNC list even mean anything?

[mpe]

Once I finally got the idiot to put a supervisor on. He claimed that they had prior business with the phone number, not the person, and could keep calling back. I said even if that were true, which it wasn't, they hadn't had a relationship in over a year so now they were required by law to take the number off their list.

In which case he'd presumably expect the telephone number to be paying for the stuff. Good luck getting money out of a sequence of digits :)

His response: he asked if I wanted to buy any drugs.

Maybe you should have said "Yes, but they are for all your people who keep calling me!"

Re:Does the DNC list even mean anything?

[Anonymous Coward]

I wondered about this, unfortunately after having hung up on the recorded message that started something like "Congratulations, you have been randomly selected as the winner of...".

We're both on the Do Not Call list and Ex-Directory (UK). I wonder if these machines just try random numbers to find those with people on the end. According to the Caller ID feature it was foreign, so perhaps I should have just left it on the table for a while to spend its money and keep it tied up.

Re:Does the DNC list even mean anything?

[wwphx]

My personal method for dealing with totally automated survey equipment is to make rude noises whenever it expects a response. It knows if you don't say anything, but chances are they're not going to install expensive IVR equipment to see if your responses are reasonable.

Then again, my former cordless phone had built-in caller ID, so if I didn't know the number, I let my answering machine screen it. These days I'm cell-only, no landline.

Not that tricky

[PlatyPaul]

Signing up on a web form every 5 years - 10 minutes Avoiding telemarketing phone calls during dinner, sex, and sleep - Priceless.

Re:Not that tricky

[generica1]

That's what I was thinking - "so what, it takes only a few minutes to sign back up again."

Well worth the effort, compared to the alternative. At least there is a mechanism in place to get your number(s) off the list, because that was once not the case.

Re:Not that tricky

[antifoidulus]

Man, you have a regular eating schedule, get laid, and actually have time to sleep instead of spending all nighters at the office? I have to call your geek credentials into question.....

Just out of curiosity, have you tried doing all 3 of those at the same time?

Re:Not that tricky

[Mr. Underbridge]

Signing up on a web form every 5 years - 10 minutes Avoiding telemarketing phone calls during dinner, sex, and sleep - Priceless.

That's some messed up priorities. If the kids are asleep and I'm having 'relations' with my wife...well, there ain't anybody important enough to be calling me that won't be waiting. That phone can ring all it wants.

Re:Not that tricky

[sumdumass]

Well, there are other things you can do to stop th calls. Firmly telling them to take you off the list and any lists they have you associated with and not calling back again works. In some areas, it is the law.

You can also do so by checking the stuff you sign and put your phone number too. I started getting calls about some free vacation and all I had to do was pay for a guest to show up. Interestingly enough, I told them to not call back and they explained they had a working relationship with me so I asked them how, demanded they not call again and started to look for where this working relationship was. Turns out, the door prize at a computer show, you need to give them your phone number in case you wind something and aren't there. At the top of the order form obstructed by the clip on the clipboard was the disclaimer and agency name that called.

I have looked since then and almost everything you sign up for has some disclaimer somewhere saying they are collecting information for marketing.

So by just telling them to take you off the list and being really observant with the contests and stuff you sign up for, you can prettyy much eliminate most of your telemarketing calls without having to get on a do not call list. I get maybe one or two telemarketing calls a month if that many.

Re:Not that tricky

[maxwell demon]

Man, you have a regular eating schedule, get laid, and actually have time to sleep instead of spending all nighters at the office? I have to call your geek credentials into question.....

He didn't say how he gets dinner, sex and sleep. It's entirely possible that his way of getting those is:
* dinner: Pizza eaten in front of the computer at some random time after 4pm.
* sex: One-handed surfing.
* sleep: When he dreams of the great new stuff he'll write soon ...

Re:Not that tricky

[PlatyPaul]

Hearing that cellphone ring is not very seductive. Maybe it's my choice of ringtone....

Re:Not that tricky

[antifoidulus]

Set it to vibrate and let the telemarketers make your love life more interesting

Re:Not that tricky

[alta]

He said sex. He's not really one of us! Or he's lying about the sex part ;)

Re:Not that tricky

[Anonymous Coward]

if by interesting it pisses off the hamster, then sure...

Re:Not that tricky

[gardyloo]

Ah, yes, because whatever the hamster is doing, it's going to be *more* disturbed by having a cell phone ring.

Re:Not that tricky

[Eponymous Bastard]

It's been a while since I signed up at the very beginning, but IIRC it took a couple of months for my signup to go into effect, as they can't just ask telemarketers to just stop on the net day.

The week before it was to go into effect, I got calls nonstop. I worked from home at the time so I got them all day and night. MCI was the worst, I got 4 calls in 24 hours. I even told them to put me on their do-not-call list, but they said it would take a week for that to work. Go figure. I got pretty mad on the last call, so maybe that's why they stopped.

So... I guess the question is whether you can sign back up before your number expires, or if they lowered the time it takes until telemarketers cannot call you anymore.

Re:Not that tricky

[dstiggy]

Nope he's on the internet so we know that he must not be having sex http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/09/20/0437247

Re:Not that tricky

[morari]

We accept hims! We accept him! One of us! One of us! Gooble gobble, gooble gobble! One of us! One of us!

Re:Not that tricky

[Chineseyes]

Man, you have a regular eating schedule, get laid, and actually have time to sleep...........

Don't be too jealous of the parent his regular meals are a step above pig feed, he gets laid(raped) by his his cellmate bubba, and his cries himself to sleep.

Re:Not that tricky

[mcpkaaos]

Just out of curiosity, have you tried doing all 3 of those at the same time?

Costanza tried it. Didn't work out so well. Better than the crib notes, though.

Re:Not that tricky

[Anonymous Coward]

Why would you put your cell phone in a hamster cage anyhow?

Re:Not that tricky

[hazem]

Try a Barry White ringtone... it works so well you'll be begging for telemarketers to call just to get her in the mood.

Re:Not that tricky

[Duhavid]

It's the remembering to re-register that is the problem.

I would like it if the number just stayed on till I removed it ( fat chance ).

Re:Not that tricky

[Mr. Underbridge]

Ah, yes, because whatever the hamster is doing, it's going to be *more* disturbed by having a cell phone ring.

Well if it's true what they say about cell phones igniting gas fumes....then yes he will. He'll also become a projectile if you believe the old urban legend. ('Armageddon!!!!')

Re:Not that tricky

[KevMar]

My bigest issue with this expiring is that we just gave the telemarketers a huge list of numbers to call. they can pull that list today and watch for numbers to fall off so they can call them.

I know people that put numbers on that list that wernt getting that many calls, but now the number is out just waiting for it to expire.

If i ran a telemarketing company, thats what i would be doing.

Re:Not that tricky

[Cpt_Kirks]

I thought he was eatin', screwin' and watchin' TV?

Re:Not that tricky

[HiVizDiver]

I have to agree. It doesn't even take 10 minutes. The argument about whether or not I should HAVE to put my own number on an opt-out list aside, the actual process is incredibly simple and takes almost no time.

Re:Not that tricky

[Angelyne]

Do Not call lists. Bah humbug. My policy is simple. If I don't recognize your name or number, I don't pick up. Period. If it's important whoever it is will leave a message. If you don't leave a message it couldn't have been that important. Only a couple of times did I crack and answer the phone. The last case, they were soliciting for some kind of organization. They wanted me to go door to door to my neighbors and bug them. No thanks! When I said no, she hung up on me. I vowed that was the last time I was going to get caught.

Simple

[awkScooby]

They should just hire some telemarketers to call people during dinner, to see if they would like to re-register for the do not call list...

A Simple Fix

[Anonymous Coward]

Its time for the Robinhood of Telemarketers to take his existing copy of the list and begin "re-enrolling" people one at a time.

The sheer volume of "re-enroll" requests will cause them to extend or eliminate the deadline.

Let it expire ...

[Average_Joe_Sixpack]

I'm lonely

Simple Fix

[Anonymous Coward]

Eliminate the Do Not Call list. It is unconstitutional to begin with. If people don't read the contract then they should get what they deserve.

Re:Simple Fix

[OrangeTide]

I never heard this argument before, please elaborate. How is it unconstitutional? And what contract are you referring to?

Re:Simple Fix

[Anonymous Coward]

There's this Bill of Rights that amends the Constitution that includes, among other things, a First Amendment that says that Congress may not make any law that restricts the Freedom of Speech.

Freedom of Speech is not restricted to speech you actually want. Everyone has the Freedom to say anything they wish.

You have the right to ignore it (not pick up the phone) but Congress does NOT have the right to deny them the ability to make the speech in the first place.

Re:Simple Fix

[Russ Nelson]

Oh, well, practically EVERYTHING that the federal government does today hangs off a bizarre interpretation of the Commerce Clause. So, in-state calls are regulated by the federal government because you could just as easily be calling someone else, or because the call could be routed out of state before it comes back in-state.

I expect that he means the contract you signed for telephone service. Except, you didn't sign a contract very likely, so your relationship between the telephone company and you is governed by tort law. Tort law is effectively the default contract you get when you don't enter into an actual contract. Nearly everything in tort law can be overridden by an explicit contract, so it would be quite possible for you to sign a contract with your telco barring certain parties from calling you.

Re:Simple Fix

[Anonymous Coward]

You have the right to ignore it

Nobody interprets it that way anymore (a shame), now everyone interprets it so that you may have the right to say anything you want, but nobody has to make it possible for you to do so.

In other words, telemarketers are free to ask people to buy their stuff, but nobody has to let them use the telephone system to do it.

Re:Simple Fix

[Anonymous Coward]

Not any speach. Speach that is considered disruption of the peace is not allowed or protected if I remember correctly.

That could include harassment by telemarketers.

Re:Simple Fix

[Anonymous Coward]

Any contract you idiot. If you sign something without reading the fine print you are an idiot and deserve what you get.

The do not call list is unconstitutional according to the ninth and tenth amendments. Try reading the constitution sometime retard.

Re:Simple Fix

[OrangeTide]

So the First Amendment means I cannot be prosecuted under sexual harassment laws for making rude jokes at the office? Or for telling my underlings that I will fire them unless they get naked, even if I don't actually fire them. After all I just *said* it, I didn't do anything, freedom of speech baby.

Also telemarketers have the freedom to speak their message, just not on my telephone. If all telemarketing calls were banned then they can pick a different medium. They have no physical disability that prevents them from speaking on a soap box on the sidewalk in front of the grocery store.

The first amendment does not guarantee anyone's right to call me on the telephone. Just like it doesn't allow me to force my way into a TV station to spout off nonsense just because I feel I have some rights that I don't actually have.

Welcome to a common law system, where the laws are interpreted with common sense and precedence to establish binding laws, it is not a letter of the law system.

Re:Simple Fix

[Anonymous Coward]

Where does it state that some company has the right to call your telephone?

Also, what is this contract you keep stating. These are random calls. Has nothing to do with any agreed upon contract. We haven't signed anything saying random companies we don't buy from can call us.

Re:Simple Fix

[Rolgar]

The government can't prevent you from saying it, no. So sit their in your chair and say what you want to say. Go hang out with your family and tell them whatever it is you have to say. But you don't have the right to call people randomly and ask them to buy something. Most of the time when we speak to sales people, either we've called or gone somewhere where we expect somebody is going to sell us something. Getting calls on the phone is different, it means that somebody is encroaching on our privacy to speak to us at a time when we're unprepared. Just as you can put up a sign that says "no solicitation" to keep sales people away, this is how we as a people have decided to handle this issue. We are telling you "Don't call us, we'll call you." This has been done because the system was being abused, and the playing field had to be leveled between our right to privacy and your right to talk. It was decided that the burden of ending the unwanted conversation should begin with the caller before the conversation began, by stopping all calls to anybody who publicly declared their desire to not get any signing up on a list.

There was a couple of court cases regarding this issue when the list came out.

As I recall, the judges decided that you can say anything you want to. But the First Amendment doesn't guarantee your right to be heard (as you mentioned), especially on somebody's private phone line, which is considered in this case to be the private property of the phone order. Your right to be heard does not include the right to be heard on somebody else's private property. The Do Not Call List is a list of people who've publicly declared they don't want to hear you and what you have to say so you can't call them and disturb them in their house by making their phone ring. That is, you don't even get to cause them 1 second of discomfort in the sanctuary of their house if they don't want you to.

The government, acting as the will of the people, has restricted abuses of the phone system, such as prank calls, stalking, and fraud that could be protected by free speech rights, but are considered abuses of the phone system that have brought unwanted incursions on our home. I heard that once upon a time, telemarketing companies had systems that could lock down a phone so the person couldn't use their phone until they'd listened to the entirety of a prerecorded message. That sure sounds like the case of some telemarketers who felt like they had a right to have their speech heard by everybody they chose. When the List was created 4 years ago, it seemed like the industry was moving towards sending every American 100 calls a night.

Re:Simple Fix

[Tuoqui]

It is not unconstitutional.

Just like you have the right to kick a traveling salesman off your property. You should have the right to kick a telemarketer off of your phone.

The Do Not Call list is like posting a sign that says 'No Solicitors' on your door. If one does come and knock on your door then you have every right to upset and if they refuse to leave you have every right to call the police to kick them off your property and/or give them a restraining order. The thing is that the list pre-emptively does it and applies fiscal penalties to not adhering to it which you hit these guys in the pocket they might actually listen.

The thing is that telemarketers are not a problem until recently. If you had an unlisted number then you wouldnt get called. With area codes filling up faster than ever before its now possible for telemarketers to start dialing 211-1111, 211-1112, ... , 999-9999. And get plenty of hits. Excluding 555-*, 911*, 411* and other restricted/similar service numbers. Multiply that by all the area codes in the US and you have a problem and one that wont solve itself without either everyone getting pissed off and keeping an airhorn next to their phone... or legislating it.

Ofcourse that doesnt stop telemarketers they just outsource to India or something.

Re:Simple Fix

[Artifakt]

Whenever I see the interstate commerce clause mentioned like this, I think it's worthwhile to give readers a point from its history that really shows why there's so much bad law related to it:

During World War II, the U.S. imposed rationing on many goods, i.e. meat, tires, aluminum foil, and others, and passed related anti-hoarding laws. Many people started gardening to supplement their diet, and these new gardens were encouraged by the government and called Victory Gardens. However, the government also claimed the right to restrict sale of food from these gardens using the same rationing system. Since people selling extra garden produce to their neighbors didn't usually cross state lines, the government justified their legal right to include them under rationing because the seeds and garden tools used to create their gardens had often crossed state lines. Basically, it means that all U.S. commerce becomes interstate commerce whenever the Fed wants it to, because somewhere along the line at least some trivial related service or object crossed a state line somewhere.
      As recent examples, the Federal government's right to control state speed limits, not just on the interstate highway system, but on state and local roads, is based on this interstate commerce interpretation. Federal spy agency rules that were written to only allow snooping on calls where at least one party isn't a U.S. citizen have been interpreted to include calls that pass out of the U.S., i.e. From a phone in California, to a satellite relay, and back to another phone in California, based on the same 'logic' and again citing the commerce clause as an example.

Re:Simple Fix

[aardvarkjoe]

The thing is that telemarketers are not a problem until recently. If you had an unlisted number then you wouldnt get called. With area codes filling up faster than ever before its now possible for telemarketers to start dialing 211-1111, 211-1112, ... , 999-9999. And get plenty of hits.

It's much more efficient for them to just buy the list of unlisted numbers from your phone company. And if you think that the phone companies don't do that, you're living in a fantasy world.

Re:Simple Fix

[allthingscode]

I'll take my name off the list when I am allowed to charge $9.95/minute to listen to the calls. I'll even sit through all of them. When it enters my house, I should have the right to set the terms.

Re:Simple Fix

[cdrguru]

Who tells the registry that the number has been disconnected? Unlike earlier centuries, there is no "the phone company". You get phone numbers from all sorts of people, some of which have little or nothing in the way of infrastructure.

The timeout method of recycling numbers is probably the only practical way to do it.

Re:Simple Fix

[Joebert]

In that case, I bet there's people would be willing to pay as much as $1 US per month to have their number automaticly registered to the list when the time comes.

Re:Simple Fix

[Anonymous Coward]

As recent examples, the Federal government's right to control state speed limits, not just on the interstate highway system, but on state and local roads, is based on this interstate commerce interpretation.

Aside from the IC clause, there are scads of ways they can get a finger up your ass. The buttfuckers at MADD (whose founding president bitch ended up with a DUI) got the nationwide .08% BAC limit (down from the previous 0.10%) pushed through by getting enough congressfucks to vote that any state not adopting .08% would be deprived of federal highway money. Nice going, you goddamned, cynical, extortionate pricks.

If you do a little research, (google "+MADD new prohibition"), you may find the magazine or web article describing MADD's real agenda. Their president publicly declared that they don't want to just stop drunk driving -- they want to stop drinking entirely. They know they can't get it legislated directly, so they do shit like the above. They also manage to fuck with the stats by using the category "alcohol-related accident". If a drunk wanders out in the street and gets hit by a car, it's an alcohol-related accident. If anyone in the car was drinking, regardless of fault, it's an alcohol-related accident. Christ, if you ran over an empty booze bottle, cut a tire and crashed into a wall, it would probably be an alcohol-related accident.

But they're careful not to explain all this in presenting the stats, hoping you will equate "alcohol-related accident" to "accident caused by a drunk driver".

I was recently stopped for driving erratically at night on a road in a nearby town. I was unfamiliar with that road. It is full of curves and switches back and forth between one lane, two lane and one-lane-with-left-turn-only-lane. It was poorly lit (too many trees lining the road and shading the street lights) and the lines hadn't been repainted since God was a pup. I was only trying not to get stuck in a left-only lane which led off onto other twisty streets.

Among other things, I was asked if I'd had anything to drink. I said I'd had one beer which I'd finished close to an hour before (all true) and was going home. I was told that the cop believed I'd pass a breath test, but that, EVEN UNDER .08%, I could still be charged with a DUI if there were anything like "unusual driving patterns" observed. Jesus Christ, if I'm weaving, charge me with fucking weaving, not with a DUI if I'm only at .04%. Crazy fuckers, all they can think of is overcharging everything.

It reminds me of the line about the mafioso hit man going off to jail. Someone said, "They charged him with shooting everything but his cuffs".

In a similar vein, there was a disturbance some years back in Oakland, CA. A cop car was torched. The FBI went after an independent videographer for all his tapes, just because they wanted a record of everyone possible who had attended the rally. They had no real grounds, but got a judge to jail the kid for contempt for not coughing up the tapes.

Their flimsy-ass excuse for imposing a federal interest where none existed was "at least some federal dollars had gone into paying for the torched car".

The kid did some months in jail. When he finally hacked up the tapes they wanted, there was no record of the car being torched, nor by whom. But the mother's-ass-fucking FBI got what they wanted -- pix of a lot of people they could busy themselves identifying later.

That and they stuck their hand way up the citizen's ass, just to let us all know who is in charge.

Re:Simple Fix

[Anonymous Coward]

When fucktards like you give your fucking number, the fine print could state they have every fucking right to sell your number. Apparently you are too fucktarded to look at the fucking fine print.

Do us all a fucking favor and fucking bash your fucking skull with a god-damned louisville slugger until fucking death fucktard.

people move, numbers change

[OrangeTide]

It's only fair that the enrollment is not permanent otherwise one day the list would include nearly every number. Even if some people who originally registered have switched numbers (moved to a different area code for example) or are deceased.

An everlasting list would be equivalent to a soft ban on telemarketing. If you really want to do that, just do that instead. For now 5 years seems perfectly reasonable for me to re-register.

How will I know when to enroll again? When I start getting annoying calls after 5pm.

Re:people move, numbers change

[belmolis]

No, there's another mechanism for dealing with this. Numbers are automatically removed from the do-not-call list when they are disconnected or reassigned.

Re:people move, numbers change

[geekoid]

Then people could just take their new number off.

Or even better the phone company should put you on or take you off for you.
Hell, that makes the most sense.

Re:people move, numbers change

[Anonymous Coward]

FTA:

"Doyle, however, points out that the list is purged each month of numbers that have been disconnected and reassigned to new customers. He called the FTC's position on the need for an expiration date "completely bogus."

Re:people move, numbers change

[pete-classic]

Actually, opt-in makes the most sense.

-Peter

Re:people move, numbers change

[PlatyPaul]

To play devil's advocate, consider how you don't have to change your number when you switch cell or telephone providers. Unless you really want a local number (which a lot of people don't care about these days, due to the free long distance provided with most cell plans), you really don't have any incentive to switch numbers. Forcing them to die out, then, could seem arbitrary.

Re:people move, numbers change

[veganboyjosh]

i'm surprised it's taken so long for someone to point this out.

(In this thread, i mean, not in meatspace.)

Re:people move, numbers change

[garcia]

It's only fair that the enrollment is not permanent otherwise one day the list would include nearly every number.

*Shrug*, the fucking assholes like Justice Just for Girls clothing store just call you and call you and couldn't give a fuck less if you're on the DNC list (among others that use pre-recorded messages that end up on your answering machine even if you aren't home/don't answer). When you call to complain they just tell you that someone else put your number on their list. My argument is that if I'm on the DNC list I don't want *anyone* calling me unless it's a personal call. Sadly, that's not how it works.

I couldn't care less if every phone number in the universe was on that list. Businesses need to realize that cold call telemarketing is a dead business and they really should divert their money and attention elsewhere like beating out my Google ranking.

Re:people move, numbers change

[geekoid]

I have no idea how the relates to my post at all.

I was just saying that the telco could sign me up if I requested to be signed up on the list.

What should be opt-in? the do not call list? or should you opt in to get calls?

regardless of which kind of list it is, it should be done through the telcos because they can remove the number from the list when it is reassigned.

Re:people move, numbers change

[cooperaaaron]

I don't think so. My new number was someone else's number and I get calls from some company that is looking for someone else. I told them that the number was recycled. I wait a week and then I get that same number again. I guess my mileage will vary..... :(

Re:people move, numbers change

[blantonl]

Businesses need to realize that cold call telemarketing is a dead business and they really should divert their money and attention

Sorry buddy, but if this were really true then telemarketing would be dead and you would not be receiving calls. People only piss in the wind once. The reality is that there ARE a lot of people that not only accept the telemarketing calls, but they purchase items and fall for the sales tactics, especially the elderly.

Your post is analogous to saying that SPAM is a dead business, and "they" should divert their attention elsewhere.

Free markets really DO work - and if cold calling, telemarketing, and SPAM didn't work, then it wouldn't be around to bother *you*.

Re:people move, numbers change

[Anonymous Coward]

Rather than fully expiring, they should add a regulation that says that telemarketers can call numbers that haven't been updated in 5 years, but they must begin the conversation by asking whether they'd like the do not call listing renewed. If they say they do, the call ends immediately and the telemarketer is responsible for renewing the do not call record for that number. Add big fines for failure to comply.

As an alternative, setup an auto-dialer to call expiring numbers and ask if they'd like their number removed from the list. I'm happy to receive one of these calls every 5 years.

The important part is to take the burden off the person receiving calls.

Re:people move, numbers change

[jollyreaper]

An everlasting list would be equivalent to a soft ban on telemarketing. If you really want to do that, just do that instead. For now 5 years seems perfectly reasonable for me to re-register. You say that as if it were a bad thing.

Re:people move, numbers change

[pheared]

You could also find out when your registration will expire by using this:
https://www.donotcall.gov/confirm/Conf.aspx

We registered the number on 10/4/2004 and it says it's good until 6/13/2012.

Re:people move, numbers change

[veganboyjosh]

regardless of which kind of list it is, it should be done through the telcos because they can remove the number from the list when it is reassigned.

Which is why getting calls from telemarketers should be opt-in. It should be assumed that people don't want to get calls, unless they go out of their way to get them.

Re:people move, numbers change

[oyenstikker]

Spam doesn't need to work. The spammers just need to convince a bunch of clueless manager, of which there seem to be no shortage, that it works.

Of course these same clueless managers probably _do_ buy from spam.

Re:people move, numbers change

[pi4arctan1guy]

An everlasting list would be equivalent to a soft ban on telemarketing. If you really want to do that, just do that instead.

I do want to do that. I think just about everybody does.

Re:people move, numbers change

[KC7GR]

"It's only fair that the enrollment is not permanent otherwise one day the list would include nearly every number..."

And the problem with this is...? ;-)

Re:people move, numbers change

[plague3106]

It's only fair that the enrollment is not permanent otherwise one day the list would include nearly every number. Even if some people who originally registered have switched numbers (moved to a different area code for example) or are deceased.

Good. I'm all for that.

An everlasting list would be equivalent to a soft ban on telemarketing. If you really want to do that, just do that instead. For now 5 years seems perfectly reasonable for me to re-register.

Well we can't really ban them outright after all, that would be against the consitution. But this is a ncie work around for once, it works for us. Sort of.

Re:people move, numbers change

[pete-classic]

You said something about it making sense for the phone company to submit numbers to the do-not-call list for some reason. I'm proposing that it makes more sense for people to not call you unless you give them your freakin' phone number.

No deep philosophical meaning, or anything.

-Peter

Re:people move, numbers change

[yuna49]

While this seems to be a fair perspective, it starts from the premise that telemarketing is fundamentally acceptable unless I say otherwise. Unfortunately our legislators are unwilling to step up to the plate and say the only acceptable model is "opt-in" rather than "opt-out." The default situation should be no one calls me to sell me anything unless I agree in advance to let them do so.

The CAN-SPAM act suffers from the same wrongheaded presumption. That's one (though hardly the only one) of the reasons why it's such a failure.

Re:people move, numbers change

[yuna49]

Well we can't really ban them outright after all, that would be against the consitution

I don't think so. First, the courts have consistently ruled that commercial speech is not entitled to the same level of constitutional protection as other forms of speech, particularly political speech. Second, just because you might be entitled to speak doesn't impose any requirement on me to listen. I don't see any reason why an opt-in system would be unconstitutional; it would just require that you speak only to people who have indicated that they're willing to listen to you.

I might agree with you if the alternative to do-not-call were a flat ban on telemarketing, but that's a false dichotomy.

Re:people move, numbers change

[Geekbot]

Reasonable?
A Hard-Ban is reasonable. Tell me what public service telemarketers are serving?
        I pay money for my land line. Telemarketers use it without my permission to make a profit. The result is that I never know when I pick up the phone if it is really a call for me or just some jerk trying to scam me out of a buck. When they pay me for my landline and my time then that is "reasonable" that they can call me. Just like Network TV being supported by advertising> I don't pay for network TV. I know that ad supported revenue gets me my shows.
        Someone might say that the phone spammers are also paying into the phone system and that makes it cheaper for all. NO WAY! They put a ton of use on the telecom grid compared to my little ol' landline. Then the phone companies extort money from customers by telling them they wont stop harrassing calls unless you pay them MORE. They wont stop harrassing phones to their customers that they are being paid to place to their customers unless you are ready to hand over more cash.
        Really, this is embarrassing that we got laws that make email spam illegal faster but never anything to stop telemarketers. And don't even start about the DNC list being a deterrent. I haven't had a telemarketing call in about 4 years that wasn't outright fraudulent. These are scumbag people working for scumbag companies and they break many laws to begin with. Breaking a DNC law isn't going to deter them when they know it wont be enforced.

Thanks

[jtroutman]

Thanks for the reminder, I just re-signed up. Can you post this story again in five years so I'll remember to do it then to?

Re:Thanks

[mmeister]

Isn't the better option to just make it permanent?

Even if I don't keep the number, I'm betting there is a 99.99% chance the next guy who gets the number doesn't want to be bothered with telemarketing calls either.

Re:Thanks

[ColdWetDog]

Knowing Slashdot, it will be posted again in 5 minutes. If you're lucky, kdwason will wait until next week. Then you have to remember whether or not you signed up again. Maybe a Firefox extension that hits the website monthly (just to be sure)is in order?

Re:Thanks

[An anonymous reader]

Don't worry, this will get posted on /. again. But most likely in two to four months. ;-)

Re:Thanks

[Anonymous Coward]

Not sure if Slashdot will be up in 5 years... in that case, try 4chan or Fark.

Re:Thanks

[ookabooka]

I guarantee you, you'll see a dupe much sooner than that.

Lawmakers must think

[armanox]

People are lazy

Re:Lawmakers must think

[digitalblue1313]

Yes, they are.

Irony continued...

[packetmon]

So I tried to call my local representative to have a word in with him about this and he hung up claiming he was on some form of Do Not Call list. Can you imagine that?

Re:Irony continued...

[Anonymous Coward]

If you ever voted for/lobbied/bribed him, just let him know that you have a business relationship with him.

How many?

[Generic Guy]

I'd say five years is a pretty good amount of time. What percent of the population keep a number for that long, anyway?

If the Do-Not-Call list were to never expire, eventually it will fill to all available U.S. phone numbers. We might as well simply impose a Telemarketer Banning Law in that case.

Re:How many?

[RedSteve]

If the Do-Not-Call list were to never expire, eventually it will fill to all available U.S. phone numbers.

Um...so what would the problem be with that?

Re:How many?

[Raul654]

If the Do-Not-Call list were to never expire, eventually it will fill to all available U.S. phone numbers.

Except the people who intentionally remove their numbers. In other words, instead of being an opt-out system, it's opt-in. This is the way it should be.

Re:How many?

[Anonymous Coward]

We might as well simply impose a Telemarketer Banning Law in that case.

Yes, a great idea. And then implement an opt-in system.

Re:How many?

[sizzzzlerz]

We might as well simply impose a Telemarketer Banning Law in that case.

To continue the previous comment: And what would be wrong with that?

Re:How many?

[Anonymous Coward]

Why not just call in and say my phone number is '*' - as in a wild card - be gone you telemarketing spammers!

Re:How many?

[pthor1231]

I've had my cell number for almost 6 years, and my landline for about 21. Plenty of people keep them for over 5 years.

Re:How many?

[DragonWriter]

What percent of the population keep a number for that long, anyway?

Probably almost everyone who doesn't move outside of a local exchange (that is, excluding people that rotate numbers because they are repeated targets of harrassment); I'd expect probably a sizable majority of people and a slightly smaller majority of phone numbers (as second and additional lines may be more transitory.)

If the Do-Not-Call list were to never expire, eventually it will fill to all available U.S. phone numbers.

It would make some sense to make it so that you registered through your phone service provider, and they pulled the listing of the database if the subscriber discontinued use of the number. It makes more sense than a fixed 5-year period, at any rate.

Re:How many?

[Cro Magnon]

I'd say five years is a pretty good amount of time. What percent of the population keep a number for that long, anyway?

I've had mine for nearly 20 years!

Re:How many?

[thrykol]

If I remember correctly the system doesn't even (appear) to confirm that the phone number is yours. Some industrious fellow could just do all Americans a favor and purchase a phone list of those active numbers not registered and write a script to register the numbers.

Re:How many?

[Nf1nk]

>>> If the Do-Not-Call list were to never expire, eventually it will fill to all available U.S. >>>phone numbers.

>>Um...so what would the problem be with that?

>If I remember correctly the system doesn't even (appear) to confirm that the phone number is yours. >Some industrious fellow could just do all Americans a favor and purchase a phone list of those >active numbers not registered and write a script to register the numbers.

Still not seeing a problem with this

Re:How many?

[Obfuscant]

What percent of the population keep a number for that long, anyway?

I've had my main landline number for 16 years. I had my second line for ten. My
first cellular number I had for 12. I'm about 8 or so on the current cell number.

If the Do-Not-Call list were to never expire, eventually it will fill to all available U.S. phone numbers.

So? Who would that harm? The people who aren't harassed by telemarketers? No. Telemarketers? Ok, that's a plus.

Re:How many?

[Anonymous Coward]

I'd say five years is a pretty good amount of time. What percent of the population keep a number for that long, anyway?

Thirty-eight years here, you cocksucker.

Do you lay awake at night just waiting for a segment of the population to decline below a certain selected-by-you percentage so you can dismiss and abuse them?

Fuck you right in the heart, you useless piece of rotting shit. You're the best excuse I've seen today for retroactive birth control.

Twelfth Stripe to Expire in 2008

[Anonymous Coward]

and then topicus.gif will be even less correct!!

There's an easy solution

[Anonymous Coward]

Call everyone on the list. "Please press 1 to renew your Do-No-Call Listing for another 5 years, or hang up to allow your listing to expire."

A hassle?

[Mundocani]

> But some lawmakers think it is a hassle to expect people to re-register their phone numbers every five years

I'd like to know who seriously thinks re-registering every five years is a hassle. I registered five years ago and I'll renew the registration before it expires soon. Big f**king deal. I saw this story several weeks ago with a similar sensational headline which implies the whole system will auto-destruct soon. Both times I felt misled by the reporters, not by the governments list.

Re:A hassle?

[oh_my_080980980]

How much of a freaking moron are you! There's no reason for the list to expire. They already purge the list of unused numbers. They are going to spend MONEY to educate people to register your number. Why spend millions of dollars when you can make it permenant the first time! F##king moron.

Not re-registering

[Drathos]

I for one will not be re-registering my number. Hopefully it will get me fewer calls. The DNC has been a nightmare for me as my call volume has increased at least ten fold since it started. I'd rather get four or five calls a week with people who I can tell to take me off their list (what I used to get) than the 10+ calls a day from autodialers with forged Caller ID and noone on the other end of the line (so they can't be reported).

Knowing my luck, however, I will get both..

Re:Not re-registering

[kasperd]

autodialers with forged Caller ID

Why have that not been blocked yet? I think the operators should be required by law to block any calls with forged caller ID. And if they don't, they should be held liable for the calls they let through.

Re:Not re-registering

[Anonymous Coward]

What about the autodialers without even a recorded message on the other end? Getting that dead silence on the other end of the line is just far more annoying than getting a recording. At least with the recording I immediately know I can hang up, and don't have to say Hello and wait for a response.

Re:Not re-registering

[Anonymous Coward]

I can hang up, and don't have to say Hello and wait for a response.

I give one hello, followed by a three count, then click.

Friends have learned not to call, then take a bite of a sandwich so they can't answer within a second or two. You should hear the surprise when I explain why my phone picked up and disconnected before they could gag down the last bite.

what happened to privacy?

[Anonymous Coward]

So you want private companies to report your activities to the Federal Government?

Re:what happened to privacy?

[belmolis]

What I described is the existing procedure, not necessarily what I want. In any case, the phone companies don't need to submit identifying information, just a list of phone numbers. And note that this information is publicly available anyhow, with somewhat more effort. The government can easily enough check whether a phone number has been changed, as can you.

Re:what happened to privacy?

[Cpt_Kirks]

So you want private companies to report your activities to the Federal Government?

This is the PHONE COMPANY. You know, the people who let the NSA put a "special wiring closet" in their main switching centers.

I think number reassignment would be kind of minor, in comparison.

Re:what happened to privacy?

[toddestan]

All that the FTC gets when you register is the phone number itself and a valid email address (that can be a throwaway for all they know). All that the phone company would have to do is send the FTC a list consisting of the phone numbers that were disconnected/reassigned and the FTC could then purge the list of all those numbers.

Do Call List

[Anonymous Coward]

This is bullshit. How about a Do Call list instead of a Do Not Call list. If you want telemarketers to call you go right ahead and put your number on that list, and make it illegal for them to call anyone who hasn't agreed to it. It's disgusting how ads are shoved down our throats all the time everywhere. Buy this, buy that, buy, buy, buy. Fuck off, If I want something I steal it thankyouverymuch!

Can't They Send a Reminder?

[Slashdot Parent]

They have an email address associated with each phone number. Why can't they send out a reminder 6 months before your number's expiration so you can renew?

FYI- You can renew your Do Not Call registrations at any time, even if they are not about to expie. I renewed all my numbers today, despite some of them not expiring for over a year.

Re:Can't They Send a Reminder?

[Cro Magnon]

My email of 5 years ago is dead,dead,dead. They'd have to phone me to remind me to renew my DNC.

Re:Can't They Send a Reminder?

[DoomedPhil]

They also have your phone number, so they could just call you up and let you know...oh, sorry.

Re:Can't They Send a Reminder?

[concept14]

They have an email address associated with each phone number. Why can't they send out a reminder 6 months before your number's expiration so you can renew?

No, they don't have your email address if you registered by phone. And even if you did register by the web, I don't think they keep email addresses after confirmation.

Five Years..

[theorem4]

Five years should be enough for anyone.

Re:Five Years..

[Anonymous Coward]

Five years should be enough for anyone.

Well, aren't you just the smug little dick-who-is-the-measure-of-all-men?

Five years is long enough for an imperious little shit like you to be alive. Please drop dead.

NYS

[jnguy]

It looks like they transfered entries from the New York State do not call registry to the federal one... dang. I was hoping the New York State one doesn't expire.

Re:NYS

[PlatyPaul]

You mean this one?

One big advantage here is that they make it easy to file complaints right off the do-not-call-list webpage.

Thanks for reminding me.

[Anonymous Coward]

Thanks for reminding me. I'm good till 2012 now.

22 minutes

[PlatyPaul]

I just signed up for it (for my new phone) and it took exactly 22 minutes from the time I loaded DoNotCall.gov to the time that I got the confirmation email and clicked the corresponding link.

Here's hoping the /. effect doesn't bog it down too much today....

If you want to feel happy...

[Pap22]

please send one dollar to Happy Dude.

My experience

[sootman]

I registered, not right away, but a few years ago. At the time, once I had jumped through all the hoops, I was presented with an additional option: "Now, that you've registered, you can print request this other form which will be (snail) mailed to you. Fill it out, mail it in, and you'll be permanently removed."

Oh no, wait, I'M TOTALLY WRONG. That was for the "quit sending me pre-approved loan offers" thing. However, that did cut down my junk mail greatly--I used to get an average of more than one offer per day, now I get one every few months or so. Look for the 800-number at the bottom of the next one you get.

In other news, donotcall.gov likes to open a new window for every link you click on, and they're working with some slow-ass stat-collecting site--the page loads, but my 'loading' icon spins because it's waiting to load https://g6589dcs.nyc2.aens.net/DCS000003_6D4Q/dcs.gif?&dcsdat= 1190396930826&dcsref= https%3A//www.donotcall.gov/default.aspx&dcsuri= /register/Reg.aspx&dcsqry=&dcssip= www.donotcall.gov&WT.tz= 240&WT.ul=en&WT.cd= 32&WT.sr=1600x1200&WT.jo= Yes&WT.ti=National%20Do%20Not%20Call%20Registry

'1600x1200' is my screen resolution--no idea why the fuck they want to collect that. (I mean, I have an idea, but it's none of their fucking business.) '*.aens.net' goes into the blocked list.

So Just Re-Enroll???

[spiedrazer]

I think that 5 years is an adequate time period to require a re-enrollment! Phone numbers Do change sometimes, and they could never support a system that automatically takes a number off the rolls if you cancel your phone service.

If people keep making mountains out of mole hills it just continues to divert attention from more important issues like , oh, the subversion of our democracy, net neutrality, patenet reform, health care...

Re:So Just Re-Enroll???

[BrianRoach]

I guess you couldn't be bothered to RTFA, so I'll point out the part that makes your post completely moot:

Doyle, however, points out that the list is purged each month of numbers that have been disconnected and reassigned to new customers. He called the FTC's position on the need for an expiration date "completely bogus."

So ... they already support "a system that automatically takes a number off the rolls if you cancel your phone service." as you put it.

I asked that telemarketers not call me. I shouldn't have to ask twice, or every X number of years if I still have the same phone number.

I'm still annoyed that non-profit and campaigns can still call me - I don't want them to either, and allowing them to do so isn't doing anything for anyone. The fact of the matter is that if they do call, that organization will never see a dime from me, even if it's something I might support. You want to talk to me and perhaps get some support? Have a web presence I can find on the net when I'm looking for you (or someone like you), advertise in something I read. Don't call me during dinner.

The concept of flushing the list is obviously funded by the telemarketing industry, given that it's already purged monthly as stated above.

- Roach

An even better idea

[jrob323]

We cancelled our landline, since we all have cellphones. Now I don't have to answer calls from my teenagers' friends (I got to play receptionist when they misplaced or didn't bother to charge their cellphones), 'non-profit' organizations, wrong numbers etc. Plus we save money.

Re:An even better idea

[geekoid]

I doubt everyone haveing a cell phone is cheaper then one land line.

Personally, I want to talk to the people my kids are getting phone calls from.

Re:An even better idea

[jrob323]

What I meant was, it's cheaper than everyone having a cellphone AND a landline.. I think many, if not most families with older kids are in that situation now (we have a family plan). And my teenagers are 18 and 19, so it's not like I'm screening their calls. Point taken for younger teenagers though.

Shouldn't have to deal with telemarketers at all

[hellfire]

I have yet to receive a telemarketing call that I actually wanted to hear from. I don't want to hear from them... ever. I'm pretty sure the american population can go without hearing from a telemarketer... ever.

The shit telemarketers sell is crap, they use high pressure tactics that are rude, they ignore requests to take you off their do not call list, and they don't care that they bother you at odd times.

There is nothing redeeming about their antics and the reason why this is a law now is because, of all the issues in the united states, this is the ONE issue where there is overwhelming support for, there's no strong business lobby to stop and the solution is exceedingly simple, even for the Bush administration. The law should work in effect to permanently ban this practice entirely.

You FAiL it

[Anonymous Coward]

in posting a GNAA shitheads. *BSD look at the she had no fear to happen. My Raymond 1n his part of GNNA if

Reminder

[Dmala]

It's not a big deal to have to renew, but it would be nice if you could opt in for an e-mail reminder or something. There's pretty much zero chance I could remember on my own before it expired. I dropped off the list temporarily when I moved recently and had to change my phone number. My phone pretty much rang non-stop from the moment it was connected to the moment (a week later) when it got added to the list. I had kind of forgotten how irritating the constant harassment could be.

Re:Reminder

[Braino420]

I had kind of forgotten how irritating the constant harassment could be.

"Oh sorry, I'm busy eating dinner right now. Can I have your name and phone number to call you at your house later? Oh, you don't want to be bothered at home? Now you know how I feel." [click]

Simple Fix

[Joebert]

Why not just leave the numbers on the list untill the number changes hands or is disconnected ?

This 5 year bit sounds like somthing to keep lobbyists from crying.

Why cron was invented

[giminy]

0 0 1 1 * wget --post-data 'ctlACPH1:txtAreaCode=&ctlACPH1:txtPhone=&ctlEmail:txtEmail=&txtConfirmEmail=' https://www.donotcall.gov/Register/Reg.aspx

You could wrap the wget in an if-block to see if the year is divisible by 5, but I'm lazy.

Reid

Re:Why cron was invented

[AeroIllini]

Yeah, but that assumes the page won't change in five years. Better to just do this:

0 0 1 1 * echo "Don't forget to update your numbers here: https://www.donotcall.gov/Register/Reg.aspx - Yourself" > tmp && mail -s "Renew your Do-Not-Call registry!" <your-email> < tmp

Re:Why cron was invented

[rastoboy29]

Neat idea.  Now wrap it in a foreach loop using bugmenot emails, with a second command to respond to the bugmenot emails, and voila, you can put every possible phone number into the registry.

That would be great.

Re:Why cron was invented

[giminy]

We would have to do it via something like TOR so as to have different access IPs (otherwise they would probably get suspicious). Feel like doing it? We could turn it into a distributed.net project, where each person gets a block of phone numbers to register...:)

Reid

Re:Why cron was invented

[Anonymous Coward]

> We would have to do it via something like TOR so as to have different access IPs (otherwise they would probably get suspicious). Feel like doing it? We could turn it into a distributed.net project, where each person gets a block of phone numbers to register...:)

Why not use something much bigger and much more distributed?

1) Find and exploit a backdoor to Storm worm.
2) !!!, not "???"
3) For telemarketers, no more profit.

The way I look at it, it's killing two birds with one stone. Every system owned is one system denied to spammers (or whatever else the operator of the Storm botnet is planning), and as long as removal requests are added slowly enough, maybe 5-10 more phone numbers denied to telemarketers.

Re:Why cron was invented

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow, you certainly win points for Most Creative Way to Avoid Using a Pipe.

Re:Why cron was invented

[rastoboy29]

One problem I do forsee is if they get millions of bugmenot email addy's, they'll just make that not allowed.  I'm not quite sure how to get around that.  Any ideas?

Re:Why cron was invented

[giminy]

Yeah, email catchalls.

I own a domain that I use only for spamtrapping. I use zoneedit.com to house the domain name, and it provides an email 'catchall'. *@mydomain.com goes to my private email address. So when I buy stuff/register online, I put the domain name in the email address: reid.amazon.com@mydomain.com, reid.slashdot.org@mydomain.com, that sort of thing.

I actually caught a data thief this way...I bought an item from one site (POR-15, a gas tank cleaner/sealer), and a year or so later a competitor started emailing that email address. I forwarded to the mails to the CEO of POR-15 so he could explain why he violated his own privacy policy, or if the data had been stolen. He has been quite responsive.

Anyway, setting up a few hundred such domain names would be cheap. Then the registered email addresses could just be first.last.phonenumber@{domainnamelist, choose one}. It would have to be a cooperative effort, but I'm willing to sacrifice some bandwidth for the cause...

Re:Why cron was invented

[rastoboy29]

How about this: A trojan that sets up one of those temporary domain dealies (I forget what they're called), and little mini pop and smtp daemon.  Let it scan the hard drive of the host for phone numbers, and register all of them.

And mine, too.

If you want to stay off telemarketer phone lists

[AnalogDiehard]

Then get an unpublished (not unlisted) phone number.

I've moved twice in the past six years, both times I got an unpublished number. When a telemarketer called, they were informed that this was an unpublished number and to please put it on their DNC list. That brought all telemarketing calls to a screeching halt.

When I started my new job last year I moved to a new city and ordered a second land line phone number with distinctive ring for off duty support for work emergencies. Both numbers are unpublished. After the first couple of false alarms with telemarketers calling the "hot line", they stopped real fast.

It does not cost much more for unpublished numbers.

Isn't it convenient...

[gillbates]

That the Do Not Call list provides telemarketers with a list of names and numbers to call, for those of us who might forget to re-register. Isn't it convenient that the Federal Government has actually assisted telemarketers by providing them with a list of confirmed names and numbers, which they will be legally allowed to call after the expiration date?

A lot of us signed up for the Do Not Call list hoping that we wouldn't receive these kinds of calls. Instead, we were betrayed by both the Feds and the industry.

Simple Solutions

[sam_handelman]

1) Force the telemarketers to notice when people ask not to be called any more, and have the telemarketer put their # on the DNC list on their behalf.

  If a telemarketer calls you after failing to add you, revoke their citizenship and extradite them to Syria. If they're calling from overseas, bomb their home country back to the stone age. I am 100% serious about this.

2) Force businesses with whom you have an existing relationship to distinguish between real information calls (your card has been stolen, and so forth) and their own sales cold-calling.

  Again, if they harass people, send their board of directors to Syria. Everyone loses one testicle immediately - the member of the board who provides the most useful information in tracking down other businesses that call and harass people during dinner gets to keep the second testicle, the rest of the board loses both.

Re:Simple Solutions

[Detritus]

Why do you hate Syria?

As a former telemarketer

[ttapper04]

We have to make all the calls through a "filter" of sorts, it references "the list." We also had the ability to add people to the list, and were mandated to do so upon request. Our company faced stiff penalties for calling people on the list as well.

Bottom line:Tell the first telemarketer who calls you to add you to the list.

A quick side note: The bank of phone numbers my company would call could be sorted by name, age, race, income, marital status, and sexual preference. I recall a time when we payed another company $1100 for a list of gay people in Illinois. No kidding.

Re:If you want to stay off telemarketer phone list

[BrianRoach]

Somehow I fail to see how having an unpublished number stops auto-dialers from hitting your number in sequence. Or from someone you deal with legitimately from selling your number to someone else (Don't ever give out your actual phone number for those grocery store discount cards, for example).

I've been on the DNC list since its inception (and put down 555-1212 for things like the aforementioned grocery store cards). THAT works. We receive *zero* telemarketing calls. The only ones we do get are the stupid exceptions (non-profit & political) and after telling them to put us on their own DNC list (Which I believe most states require them to maintain) we stopped getting those as well.

The DNC list is awesome and one of the few things that I happily want my tax dollars spent on. Attempting to get it flushed is obviously being funded by the telemarketing lobby.

- Roach

Last night

[Dunbal]

Funny, I got a call last night from a telemarketer that went something like this:

      "Hi Mr. So and so? I wonder if you had a minute so I could remind you that your telephone number will be off the "Do Not Call list" next year, and to offer you our automatic "Do Not Call" list renewal service. For just $1.95 a month our company will track your telephone number and automatically renew your status on this list for you every five years..."

      I'm joking, of course. But how far away are we from this? :)

Spam Assassin for PBX

[y86]

I wish there was a product that just automatically -- never rang and just hung up on a large swath of numbers.

Kind of like Spam Assassin does for email -- it's like the message was never sent.

I see an IPO, a little black box that gets a list of telemarketers numbers from the net and blocks them all!

Any takers?

Re:Spam Assassin for PBX

[sricetx]

Why not a product that whitelists numbers that will ring through? Why should I answer calls from random numbers? Those can go straight to voicemail. You would think the telcos would sell a service like this, but I've never seen it. I suppose one could route all calls through an Asterisk box and have rules set up for this...

Re:Spam Assassin for PBX

[SCHecklerX]

You can sort of do it using vgetty with a custom answer script (ring 1 usually comes in before any phones actually ring in my house). You can definitely do it if you set up a home PBX with asterisk.

Re:Spam Assassin for PBX

[Jaime2]

There's an easy variation of that. Just get private number blocking. 99% of the telemarketers that used to call me came up as "UNKNOWN NUMBER". The only way to come up as unknow to a subscriber that has private call blocking is if the source line doesn't support caller ID. It turns out that the only lines in the civilized world that don't support caller ID are those lines that paid to have service put in that way -- telemarketers. The calls eventually stopped after I stopped answering them. I'm probably on a "dead numbers" list that companies buy from each other.

Re:Spam Assassin for PBX

[Anonymous Coward]

Cox Digital Telephone offers this.

"White Knight" Hackers

[maxchaote]

I'm surprised noone's made a script to automatically start registering every US number. I just re-entered my phone numbers and was surprised that you only have to enter your phone number and click on a confirmation link in an email to register. There's no verification that the number is yours or even a captcha. It would be very easy for someone to game this system.

Then again, that might be the perfect excuse for the telemarketing industry to call for a lengthy and expensive overhaul of the system and wind up screwing us all...

RTFA ... I know, I know, it's slashdot ...

[BrianRoach]

From TFA:

Doyle, however, points out that the list is purged each month of numbers that have been disconnected and reassigned to new customers. He called the FTC's position on the need for an expiration date "completely bogus."

Ergo, flushing the list == telemarketing lobby paying for it.

- Roach

Let's make lots of money!

[plopez]

Buy stock in telemarketing and phn research companies now. Then dump it about 6 months after the renewal date. Costa RIca here I come!

Re:If you want to stay off telemarketer phone list

[forgetmenot]

You say use an unpublished number to stay off a telemarketers list but then give examples of telemarketers calling your unpublished number and on more than one occasion at that. So what's the difference?

There is nothing magic about an unpublished number. It's simply a number that the phone company has agreed not to reveal details about. But not all telemarketers get their phone numbers from 'published' sources such as phone company records as your own examples clearly indicate. An unpublished number has just as much chance of being picked by a "random dialer" as any other with the exception of those numbers on the Do Not Call list which must be filtered out. So how is asking each individual telemarketer to remove you from their list better than them not being allowed to call in the first place?

Do Not Call -- Ha..

[Anonymous Coward]

I added all my numbers, phone and fax, to the do not call list, back when do-not-call started,
and it was the first thing I did after establishing a new phone whenever I moved, and I still
get about two calls a day to the voice line, and one or two junk faxes a day. Sometimes more.

I have a two inch pile of junk faxes from 2006; I kept them all, just to see
how many I get. I also get regular automated voice calls for the same crap over and over;
credit card debt relief and to clean my rugs (I have hardwood floors, and no credit card debt).
At least it's easy to tell it's a recording and just hang up.. but the same thing over and over?
Someone's wasting their junk advertising dollars.

The automated calls give an option at the end to either 'press 1 to make an appointment,
or press 2 to remove you from our call list', and of course when you press '2' it says
it's an invalid option, likely some kind of loophole in the law..

I've searched the web for the caller-ids, and it seems this happens all over
the country.. some folks were successful at tracking down who actually makes the calls
(often a Florida address), and some interrogated the people who picked up when you
'press 1' finding they're just working for some unknown entity out of their basement.
The caller-id numbers are from all over, sometimes local, sometimes from other states,
and others 'Blocked', but often it's the same message.

And if I ever give money to a police or goodwill charity, for the next three months
I get calls from every police and charity organization asking for money at dinner,
lunch and breakfast. After a few cycles of this, I've simply stopped giving to charities..
screw 'em all.

I don't know how many calls do-not-call is preventing, maybe a lot, maybe a few,
but there's obviously some kind of loopholes..

Re:Do Not Call -- Ha..

[wizkid]

When I signed up for the Colorado no call a few years before the national one, I did the *whatever to file a complaint with the phone company. I never got charged for the complaint reports, and I harrassed and logged all my do not call requests. I filed 3 complaints for outfits that called a second time, and now I don't get calls. I ask charities to not call back, (I consider them solicitors also). They honor the requests.

The only scum that don't honor the requests to not call are political dirtbags now. I suspect they never will.

Re:Do Not Call -- Ha..

[noidentity]

'I've searched the web for the caller-ids, and it seems this happens all over the country.. some folks were successful at tracking down who actually makes the calls (often a Florida address), and some interrogated the people who picked up when you 'press 1' finding they're just working for some unknown entity out of their basement. The caller-id numbers are from all over, sometimes local, sometimes from other states, and others 'Blocked', but often it's the same message."

Check out whocalled.us, if you haven't already. You get a way to connect with others who get the same calls, perhaps organize something.

Re:Do Not Call -- Ha..

[ivan256]

I ask charities to not call back, (I consider them solicitors also). They honor the requests.

You should.

You probably (maybe) already give to charities you intend to, and the telemarketing company almost certainly takes an unacceptable cut of whatever donation you would have made over the phone.

Re:Do Not Call -- Ha..

[Anonymous Coward]

And if I ever give money to a police or goodwill charity, for the next three months
I get calls from every police and charity organization asking for money at dinner,
lunch and breakfast. After a few cycles of this, I've simply stopped giving to charities.. screw 'em all.

Damned right. I once sponsored a friend for the San Francisco AIDS walk. For two years afterward, I got phone calls and junk mail from every goddamned gay rights association, gay magazine, feed-the-aids-patients and feed-the-homeless organization you could think of.

As for cops and firemen, I've gotten screwed by too many cops to think of doing anything to help them. The local police and fire departments are too busy trying, even in 2007, to keep women and minorities out. I just heard a bit on the news today about a woman firefighter who took a $1.5 million settlement from the city of San Francisco. Her compadres saw fit to mix dog food in with her meals in the firehouse. I'm sure they tried to pass it off as "just a prank". Similarly they found fit some years back to keep painting swastikas on a black firefighter's locker. Too bad the chiefs are too cowed by the code of silence to bust the commanding officer of a firehouse to a nozzleman at the fire site.

Such brave men -- some years back, I knew someone who was a deputy sheriff. His wife wanted to join the force. His compadres gave them no end of shit over it -- they didn't want women in their precious little boys' club. The couple even received death threats, anonymous of course, from the brave boys on the force.

If either of these cop or fire loonies calls me, I just hang up.

And I vote against every benefit for both of them that shows up on the ballot.

By the way -- hint -- whenever anyone calls and says they're calling "on behalf of" some outfit -- they don't work for the outfit -- they're just paid, professional fundraisers, probably taking their own healthy cut off the top of anything donated.

POST ALL NUMBERS TO THE DNC LIST!!!!

[Anonymous Coward]

Some white hat needs to write a script that will just post all numbers from 000-000-0000 to 999-999-9999 to the DNC list and screw with all the telemarketers!

Works in many cases

[Anonymous Coward]

A friend of mine works for a telemarketing company. He says that they respect the no-call list and people who ask to be removed. For legal reasons and that they don't want to bother with people who aren't going to buy anyways. That's his company and he has no reason to lie to me. YMMV.

Are telemarketers roaches?

[daveywest]

You would think five years of intense regulation would kill this vile industry.

Re:Are telemarketers roaches?

[DaedalusHKX]

Regulation doesn't kill any industry, it merely kills the small players, like you, possibly me... but the big corporations and roaches of the industry are well subsidized and as you well know, regulatory agencies suffer a bit of a syndrome similar to Stockholm syndrome, only in this case, the kidnappers (aka the regulators) fall in love with the kidnapees (the regulated industries) and eventually become their protectors.

EPA did it numerous times, OSHA does it (haven't been to a single construction site where OSHA wasn't screwing the small players and barely calling into question the big players)... FCC does it to this day... SEC does it too... look at all the insider trading that goes "unpunished". Even the big and mighty BATF. Its supposed to regulate Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms used by actual villains, criminals, et al. All it does is screw over the small shops and regular "honest folk", but they have done nothing to stop drunk driving senators from killing civilians (*cough* Ted Kennedy *cough*).

Meanwhile cops are making a common policy of tazing anyone that so much as refuses to submit to interrogation (without the officer either detaining or arresting them). They're also killing or beating up more people, and the media, even video.google.com is pulling the videos within days (sometimes faster than that) from circulation. But videos of Britney's nipples poking through her shirt are the rage.

We've all got some messed up priorities, so regulatory agencies will continue to serve as the "bouncer" at the Abuse Club. They bounce only those who cannot afford the entry fee... everyone else is welcome to abuse us as much as they like.

Try what I do. Turn off the alarm during sex or even plain during after hours, work hours are done, if I'm not on call, they can leave me be. Nothing is so important that they can't leave a voicemail. Family time is family time, no exceptions, unless God him/her self shows up and has a reason to interrupt (and it better be one hell of a burning bush). If a boss or a client can't respect that, there is no point in working for, or with them. Everyone I work for knows my family and my personal life are just that. MINE. I would sooner live in a basement or a shack than let someone other than myself dictate my personal life. My life is relatively spartan anyways, I've cut all the unnecessary stuff out of it, but YMMV. If I can fit my computers, gym stuff and library in a house, its "big enough" :)

When I was younger I used to run only a pager, and that also helped out. If they cannot page me, their message is obviously not important enough. If they wasted my pager airtime, it didn't cost me a damn penny anyways :)

Re:Are telemarketers roaches?

[Anonymous Coward]

> You would think five years of intense regulation would kill this vile industry.

Sure, after five years of trying to starve the motherfuckers out of existence, I still see one or two every year. But at least they're not telemarketers. What do you have against roaches? :)

Phishers?

[Ungrounded Lightning]

My mobile # is on the DNC list and I still get calls.

My landlines ditto lately - especially on/near the Labor Day holiday. Two of the callers I remember claimed to be Sears and a car dealership I'd never heard of.

I've been assuming these calls were not actually from the companies claimed, but instead either phishing scams or crooks looking for unoccupied houses to rob.

7 Years, not 5 Years

[jcm]

It would appear that the expiration is for 7 years, not 5.

"Your phone number with the last four digits 0000 was registered in the National Do Not Call Registry on 6/29/2003. Most telemarketers will be required to stop calling you 31 days from your registration date. Your registration will (or did) expire on 5/26/2010."

Still it should not expire and if you'd like to cancel it you could go to the website and do so. If your email address changes in the period, perhaps it could call your home phone and ask to be allowed to reset your email address so you can "re-register" or the like.

I agree with the parent

[Mycroft_514]

Going to an unlisted number WORKS. Why? You can speed up ht eprocess by going thru the places like Zabasearch and the other reverse phone number lookups and having your number removed from them too. I did this after I moved back around 2000. I think we have gotten 5-10 TOTAL telemarketers since then.

Now that doesn't stop the stupid phone company calling and trying to upsell THEIR service every so often. But then the DNC won't stop that either.

And this also stops some places like banks who are looking for someone else with my name and a different middle initial from somewhere east of here by about 100 miles, but who is a deadbeat....

Fun times are back again...

[dontspitconfetti]

When it expires I can finally have fun again! I'll talk to the telemarketers and pitch to them my products and services. How would you like to pay to have a dog food historian on call 24/7? Let me tell you about our great offers!

2 out of 3 aint bad (is it?)

[Black Copter Control]

Just out of curiosity, have you tried doing all 3 of those at the same time? No, but I have fallen asleep during sex (I probably would have gotten away with it if I hadn't started snoring).

Time to drop the land line ?

[eludom]

5 years ago the land line mattered.
It's not clear that it does anymore.
Maybe it's just time to drop it.

---Eludom

Here is the rub on DNC

[Anonymous Coward]

1. Some items people may not know.. A. There are multiple DNCs 1-Fed 2-State 3-Per Company B. The Fed: This is the normal DNC listing that all telemarketing companies are to scrub their list by; either them or the entity providing/selling the list. The State: Some states have their own DNC; your best contact is your local attorney general. Not some asshat in the legistlature. The AG will actually take your complaint and investigate. Especially if you've requested to the calling company (ya have to request it..sorry) to put you on their company DNC. If you're being called up to 48 hours or more after the request then call your AG. Per Company: (and boy do the telemarketing companies love it when you hang up) If you don't request to be put on DNC (and hopefully politely) you will not be removed or filtered out. Doesn't matter if you are on Fed DNC...REQUEST IT ANYWAY! At least the company will take you out of "their" call list. ***Stipulation*** If you do business or have done business with someone up to 3 years previous....any company can call you due to "Existing Business Relations". Especially those who don't want their phone company calling them. The bottom line is this...Don't go away mad. Go away satisfied that you now know what to do incase of telemarketers calling you at all hours of the day. If you would like more info I'll offer what I can but I'm posting anonymously for job reasons. I'm sure you understand.

I miss those calls

[jbeaupre]

I kind of miss telemarketer calls.

Would you like to subscribe to our newspaper? No, I'm illiterate!

Would you like new windows? No, this house is so run down I'm abandoning it.

Would you like to donate to the children? No, I don't like children.

Would you like to donate to the police fund? Will you let my brother out of jail?

and so on. Come up with a response that is not on their list and it's comedy gold.

Re:I miss those calls

[aaron alderman]

Would you like new windows? No, this house is so run down I'm abandoning it.
Would you like new windows? No thanks, I run Linux.

Already renewed

[amigabill]

I started getting telemarketing calls again a couple months ago and reregistered all my numbers. I'd rather not have to, but it's worth the couple minutes involved. I get very little phone spam, mostly mortgage offers which I turn down by saying "It's illegal for you to be talking to me right now".

Individual Fix: DIY Ideas

[SkorpiXx]

There may be a couple workarounds if *gasp* Congress doesn't do anything.

1. Don't have a landline. It's even harder to get your cell phone number than a landline.

2. If you do need a fixed phone, use Skype or VOIP.

3. Use asterisk. It's open source VOIP software that you can make your phone act like a local PBX or switch. You can also program it to send annoying sounds to unwanted callers. S

Cell phones are the way to go

[spyrochaete]

My wife and I each have cell phones and no land line. With my last cell phone I used to get automated calls from one debt consolidation company and no amount of complaints or reports would stop them, but it was only that one company I'd get calls from. Since I switched carriers 10 months ago I haven't gotten a single telemarketing or other soliciting phone call.

P.s., I use SkypeOut whenever I have to make a long distance or long local call. It's not good enough for me to rely on exclusively but it's pretty damn great.

Don't put it in front of the legislature again!

[Anonymous Coward]

What we have now is pretty good. Re-registering every 5 years isn't to bad. But if you put the issue in front of congress again, what are the odds that the telemarketers will somehow manage to pay off or otherwise influence our esteemed legislators to get it gutted this time? I'd prefer to keep the good system we have now, then risk losing it when going for the perfect solution.

Re:Don't put it in front of the legislature again!

[dltaylor]

Can we can keep the legislative gravy train rolling to the point that it it no longer economical to run a telemarketing operation because the profit is entirely consumed by the bribes?

Easy fix!

[yellowdragon]

Credit card issuers (and I bet, many other businesses) make you fill a form if you want to be excluded from their mailing lists. Well, I want to be able to fill a form in order to be excluded from the DNC list. Just make it an OPT-OUT! No form, no removal!

Worthless legislation

[Fred Smythe]

The DNC list is worthless, because the telemarketing lobby convinced the lawmakers to include loopholes for "non-profits" and for "prior business relationships." The former means I keep getting calls from people who want me to vote for them for whatever reason, and the latter is so ill-defined that pretty much anyone can call me and weasel their way out of any penalty. (Plus, there are still tons of people out there who just call you anyhow, knowing that it's such a pain to track them down that they'll get away with it.)

Re:Worthless legislation

[stevel]

It is not worthless. The volume of calls received once you're on that list goes down tremendously. I discovered this accidentally when I switched VOIP providers and I had a new temporary number. I was suddenly deluged with marketing calls on the temporary number. Once my number had finished porting and the temporary number was shut off, the calls stopped.

I'm not saying that I never get any unsolicited marketing calls, but I get many many fewer than I would if I were not on the list. I do agree however that surveys and political calls, not being covered by the DNC list, make it less useful than it could be.

wrong story

[brre]

The real story is the increasing volume of calls in violation of the law.

Any day I'm at home for a few hours I get an automated call from "a carpet cleaning service in your area" or "cardholder services". Of course my line is on the Do Not Call list. Of course they have no established business relationship with me. Of course they're not exempt as nonprofits. They just call anyway. From time to time they pay a FCC fine. The calling never stops.

That's the real story. These calls will not stop when you re-up, of course.

OK you've persuaded me

[temcat]

I will not call listings to expire in 2008. Whatever that means.

whocalled.us

[Mean Variance]

I've searched the web for the caller-ids, and it seems this happens all over the country..

I find this site handy to learn about the origin of unknown callers (but with caller ID).

What's the big deal?

[Anonymous Coward]

You moron, just re-submit the form. It's not rocket science, and once it's done, you don't have to mess with it for the next five years. How brain dead are you? Sheese!

There should be a "call list" instead

[Anonymous Coward]

Idiot politicians, corrupt and in the pockets of big business, don't give a damn about telemarketing calls.

It should be the reverse, i.e. you don't call me unless I'm on a "call permitted" list.
And of course, I don't want to be on that list.

Would solve a LOT of problems, but you can bet that this "Do Not Call" list will continue, will continue to be ignored, etc.

Hence, I don't have a phone anymore. Life's much, much more peaceful. I do everything by email only! :-)

Re:Why cron was invented -- really??

[Kozz]

Are you willing to bank on the fact that their registration form or URL will never change?

Re:Shouldn't have to deal with telemarketers at al

[Steve001]

Like others, I've gotten fed up with junk calls too. Instead of using the "Do Not Call" list, what I did to deal with them was to turn my phone ringer off and no longer answer my phone. Instead, I allow voice mail to pick up the calls and review my voice mail when I get a chance. Any phone message that sounds like it is from any type of telemarker is immediately deleted. It's interesting how many calls I have received, per my caller ID, where the caller didn't leave a message.

For people that must reach me, I have a pager (the cost for a year of pager service is about the same as a month of cell phone service). I allow only a limited number of people, ones who must reach me immediately, to have that number.

I've found the above method extremely effective in dealing with telemarketers. I can't remember the last time I actually spoke directly with a telemarketer. Calling me simply wastes their time.

Can someone dup this June 2008?

[FlopEJoe]

Can someone dup this in June 2008? kthx!

The Tinfoil Hat - Comfortable, Yet Practical

[Mix Master Nixon]

I've been suspicious of the motivations behind this list from the outset. A couple times a year I get forwarded spam by well-meaning family members, who had received spam e-mails saying that if they didn't sign up for the No Call List by a certain, right-around-the-corner date, their cellphone would begin ringing off the hook with telemarketers. I've had one unsolicited telemarketing call since I've had my cel account, and I've had it for several years. I don't obey spam, particularly when I have nothing to gain from it and the whole thing just seems... fishy in the extreme. I want no part of this damn list - even on a good day you can't trust the US Government, and these are not good days.

Comcast Digital Voice is a telemarket shit pit

[Anonymous Coward]

Yep, four weeks ago I signed up for the Comtastic digital voice and mega-telemarketer service. Switched from another big telco monopoly and my incoming shit call rate went through the roof. Most are with bogus caller ID info. I asked myself WTF is going on here? I mean the same "toll free" or "Out of Area" numbers are calling every fucking hour. Answer the phone and no one is there for the first several seconds. (Yea, I just hang up) I get the feeling that my number has been sold out, even though it's the same number I had with the big monopoly telco where my shit call rate was not even noticeable. Any other Cumtastic digital voice service users experience this problem?

No re-reg in the UK Telephone Preference Service

[caveman]

The UK Telephone preference service states in their FAQ that Residential or Sole Trader numbers do not need to be renewed, however corporate numbers (for corporations who do not want to be bothered by other corporations making unsolicited sales calls) do need to renew their CTPS subscription every year.

Interestingly, they ask that if you move, but maintain the same telephone number, to contact them. It may be implied from this (although I have found no evidence) that ceased telephone numbers are removed from the list in some automated telco-DMA manner, which would make sense (but since when as making sense had anything to do with real life?)

Interestingly, the Telephone Preference Service is a supression list service maintained by the direct marketing association, but is a regulatory requirement specified in the Privacy and Electronic Communcations (EC Directive) Regulations 2003 which states that it is OFCOM's (the regulator) responsibility to maintain such a list.

Confused? I am... (although having been a TPS subscriber on all my lines for some years, it does appear to work).

A more permanent solution...

[Guppy06]

... is what I like to call the "Can Not Call List," where you simply cancel your landline service. If the phone companies are going to insist on favoring corporate call floors over residential customers with the products they sell, allowing the former to harass the latter with little or no recourse, then they don't want your money.

funny nobody has done this

[RobertLTux]

but just for fun http://a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/257/2422/13nov20061500/edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2006/octqtr/47cfr64.1200.htm
have this printed out by your phone since you may want to refer to
" TITLE 47--TELECOMMUNICATION

                CHAPTER I--FEDERAL COMMUNICATIONS COMMISSION (CONTINUED)

PART 64_MISCELLANEOUS RULES RELATING TO COMMON CARRIERS--Table of Contents

      Subpart L_Restrictions on Telemarketing and Telephone Solicitation

Sec. 64.1200 Delivery restrictions."

btw cold calling cell phones is a No-No unless the billing is fixed so you don't get charged for the call.

I can assure you that companies DO get fined...

[PRMan]

I was working at a mortgage company when the Do Not Call list started and I asked the CIO what he intended to do about it.

He said, "Nothing."

He wasn't worried about the fines.

A month later, with an $88,000 fine from the government, he was in my cube looking for a way to look up numbers.

Moral of the story: If you want the calls to stop, every once in a while, when you have time, go through the sales process and find out who is really calling you. Tell them that you have a policy of not giving your credit card to anyone who called you, so you need a callback number and the name of the company. Because they think they are getting a sale, they will give you whatever you want.

The easier the bust (and the companies with the most complaints) will get the most attention. It's especially good if you can match up the company's name with a bogus Caller ID number. In other words, "solving" their cases for them will get you the most results. Plus, it's kind of fun.

Simple solution that would actually work

[fireboy1919]

We beat it with technology the way that we do with spam.

Instead of having a nationally maintained "do not call" list, we have a website maintained "do not answer" list. All unlisted numbers and numbers listed in the blacklist aren't allowed. We'd just need caller-id filters that can check against this list.

All we need then is for the phone companies to provide anyone who asks information about phone number changes for public entities, and it's all over as soon as it starts. No company on the "do not answer" list would ever be able to call you (without , and there's nothing they could do about it, because such lists would be maintained by private entities just like they are with spam, and would be updated with new numbers as soon as those numbers changed.

The question is, why hasn't this been done, and why doesn't anybody talk about doing it? Is it too cost prohibitive?

Stupidity

[codingmasters]

Well this is just plain stupid. What kind of system like this has expiration dates? I bet you tonnes of people are not going to realise that their number has expired off the list, and are going to be wondering why they're now getting telemarketer calls. The government needs some way of notifying people of this, and making it extremely easy for them to renew their number. Either that, or get rid of the expiration system altogether.

Re:If you want to stay off telemarketer phone list

[SeaFox]

It does not cost much more for unpublished numbers.

Why should you have to pay to [b]not[/b] be put in the phone book.

5 Years!

[danlock4]

Apparently, it's five years!

The Q&A Page for The National Do Not Call Registry says this:

15. How long does my phone number stay registered?

Your phone number will remain on the registry for five years from the date you register (unless you choose to take it off the registry or your phone number is disconnected). If you register online, you may want to print the Web page for your records when your registration is accepted.

16. How can I find out when my registration expires?

You can click on the Verify a Registration button any time to check your expiration date. Your registration will expire five years from your registration date. You may want to print the Web page with your registration date for your records.

Slaves unaware

[Panoptes]

I own my telephones: they do not own me. My house phone is unplugged every night, and during the day when I need peace and quiet. My mobile is switched off when I don't want to receive calls: recorded messages allow me to call back who I want, when I want. Unless callers identify themselves I disconnect without hesitation. If it's someone calling me cold who launches into a sales patter, I just put the phone down and make myself a leisurely cup of coffee. If it's someone I don't know and don't want to talk to, I politely say goodbye and disconnect. Telemarketers predicate their activity on the human compulsion to answer the phone, and they abuse people's innate politeness and good nature. They work on the fear factor - that any call might be an emergency, or their boss.

Time is precious. Tranquility is important. Sleep is essential. The telemarketing brigades deprive us of these things, and seriously affect our quality of life. Getting your number on a 'do not call' list is only one item in the armoury against intrusion - simply asserting our right to privacy is our greatest weapon.

Be sure to look up your original registration

[Trevin]

I re-registered my phone numbers last month. Shortly after that I started getting 4-5 calls a week from some unknown number who never left a message. The do-not-call registry says that telemarketers have up to 30 days to remove your number from their phone lists. Sure enough, after 30 days had passed this unknown company stopped calling.

HOWEVER, my initial registration for the do-not-call registry was done in August 2003, and was supposed to be good for 5 full years -- in other words, this company had no right to pester me when I re-registered, because my previous registration was still in effect.

I should have saved their phone number from my caller ID box and registered a formal complaint. However by the time it occurred to me to do so, they had stopped calling.

NDNCR Dropping numbers early?

[Brett Johnson]

Late this summer, I started getting a rash of unsolicited phone calls, sometimes 3 or 4 in an hour. I said to myself, "WTF happened to the Do Not Call List?" When I went to the Do Not Call Registry web site, and queried my number[s], none of them were on the list. It had only been 4 years (not 5) since the registry became active. I haven't moved or changed my phone numbers. I can think of no good reason why my numbers were no longer on the Do Not Call List, but it had obviously happened this spring or early summer. I re-registered my numbers and the calls tapered off a bit, but I still get 3-4 per week.

If I were you, I wouldn't even bother waiting a year to re-register. Do it now [if the system allows you to].

Re:NDNCR Dropping numbers early?

[Reziac]

I'm on the national DNC list, and more importantly, I'm on the master DNC list that is used by newspapers, and eventually propagates to nearly all other businesses.

For many years, I got no junk calls at all.

Over the last year, I've started getting calls again, always trying to sell me a new mortgage -- and they hang up if you demand to know the company name. I think what's happened is that the boilerrooms have moved offshore and are therefore themselves immune from prosecution or civil suits; and so long as you don't have a domestic company name, there's not bloody shit you can do about it.

DNC List is unconstitutional

[SonicSpike]

DNC List is unconstitutional

Yep - that's right.

No where in the Constitution is the federal government allowed to regulate advertisements and marketing activities.

Opt-in doesn't work either

[equivocal]

By reading this post you agree to receive many annoying phone solicitations every day for the rest of your natural life.

Whistles and fog horns

[krunk7]

I use whistles and fog horns for repeat callers. You just answer and talk in a kinda whisper for the first couple of sentences. Then just pop off a really loud whistle or blast a fog horn in the receiver.

It doesn't always keep them from calling back, but for some reason I don't mind the repeat calls so much.