Official - Bungie Departing Microsoft

jasoncart writes "Microsoft today confirmed the news that has been speculated for some days, that Halo developer Bungie is 'on the path' to becoming an independent company. Microsoft describes this as an 'evolution' of their relationship, but no concrete reason is given for this move. 'Shane Kim, corporate vice president of Microsoft Game Studios, said the company was "supporting Bungie's desire to return to its independent roots". However, he added, Microsoft "will continue to invest in our Halo entertainment property with Bungie and other partners, such as Peter Jackson, on a new interactive series set in the Halo universe". "We look forward to great success with Bungie as our long-term relationship continues to evolve through Halo-related titles and new IP created by Bungie," he added.'" MTV wonders out loud ... if Bungie doesn't make Halo 4 who will? The official press release from Bungie gives you the same information from the other side, as does an interview with Frankie at GameDailyBiz. Update: 10/05 21:25 GMT by Z : In the wake of the announcement Kotaku has a quickie email interview discussing the future of the company.

Comments

Huh?

[Otter]

MTV wonders out loud ... if Bungie doesn't make Halo 4 who will?

Isn't that kind of a moot point, since they *are* going to be continuing the Halo series?

Re:Huh?

[EricR86]

Personally, I would love to see Bungie (finally) create a non-Halo title. They make good games, it'd be nice to see a good game that isn't a moderate evolution of a previous one. Enough with the sequels.

And If I was a game developer working on the same title for years on end - I'd probably want a change too.

Re:Huh?

[Evangelion]

Just because they own the IP and made the first few games, does not mean that they have to make all the games in perpituity.

For example, Id Software, despite providing the engine and making Quake 1-3, did not develop Quake 4 -- it developed by Raven Software.

Re:Huh?

[EricR86]

Personally I'd love to see them develop a non-Halo title. Bungee makes great games, it'd be nice to see their creative talents leaned in a different direction. Enough with the sequels. And I can imagine if I was a game developer working with the same series for years on end (since 1999?), I'd probably want a change too. If they develop a non-Halo title, for PC, I'd be one of the first to try it.

Re:Huh?

[jollyreaper]

And If I was a game developer working on the same title for years on end - I'd probably want a change too. Not so with Microsoft; they know how to milk a cash cow when they find one. Merchandising! Merchandising! Where the real money from the game is made. Halo: the T-shirt, Halo: the coloring book, Halo: the lunch box, Halo: the breakfast cereal, Halo: the flamethrower--the kids love this one--last but not least, Halo: the doll. *squeeze* "Gimme mah money, bitch!"

Re:Huh?

[peragrin]

I take it you really want Spaceballs: The search for more money to finally be released.

Re:Huh?

[rootofevil]

bungie didnt make myth 3 either, so they are already used to passing the torch on game franchises.

me? id love to see oni 2. that game was hecka fun.

Re:Huh?

[Jarjarthejedi]

Last time I checked there was no Halo 4, Halo Wars is being developed, and that looks great (though I still don't know if they plan to port it to PC) but Bungie has a tradition of sorts of ending their games after the second sequel and moving on, I don't see them making a Halo 4. Microsoft might try something like that with a different group but it would never do as well as Halo 3 without Bungie (unless it magically because awesome :P).

I really, really doubt there'll be a Halo 4. Much more likely to have Halo Wars, perhaps a Space Battle game (that would be fun, and yet boring at the same time what with the fact that Covenant ships are 3x better than human ones. I can't see that working out well), maybe a prequel playing as Johnson (which I guess you could call Halo 4, though it won't have the MC) but I can't see another MC game coming out.

Re:Huh?

[moderatorrater]

First off, it was written before they knew that bungie was going to continue the halo series, so they didn't know.

Second, they actually say right in there that the most likely thing would be for bungie to make the next halo, but for another studio to do titles between bungie releases (much like Call of Duty 3 or the NWN expansion packs).

The points are well written and thought out, although Tycho points out two more that would be great for the job.

Re:Huh?

[MagusZeal]

But wasn't Quake 4 horribly by all accounts when compared to the others? I've yet to hear someone say it was worth the cash. Hell I'm still worried GH3 will be horrible as well.

Re:Huh?

[Otter]

Just because they own the IP and made the first few games, does not mean that they have to make all the games in perpituity.

Sure, but the MTV link is speculating about what would happen if they gave up the IP, which was reasonable speculation but isn't what happened. It seemed odd to bring it up *after* the details of the Bungie deal came out.

Re:Huh?

[Gaerek]

No Halo 4? You mean, $170 Million in the FIRST day of sales isn't enough incentive to make Halo 4? I'm sorry, but there's way too much money wrapped up in that franchise. It's not going anywhere soon.

Re:Huh?

[TheDreadSlashdotterD]

Quake 4 was worth the cash for the single player alone. That's just my lousy opinion though.

Re:Huh?

[bburns]

Not so with Microsoft; they know how to milk a cash cow when they find one. Merchandising! Merchandising! Umm, I don't get it. What experience does Microsoft have in merchandising? Office the coloring book? Office the lunch box? Anyway, the merchandising is just advertising. Microsoft isn't going to make hundreds of millions of dollars on merchandising. They are going to make hundreds of millions of dollars on games.

Re:Huh?

[Anonymous Coward]

Quake 4 multiplayer seemed like Quake 3 playing on overly bright Quake 2 maps. Quake 4's single player was new and pretty interesting.

Re:Huh?

[morari]

Quake IV was decidedly disappointingly, but in the end was fun enough to play through considering how short it was. The problem with Halo is that it began life as an average (mediocre) video game, console kids just don't know any better when it comes to first person shooters.

Re:Huh?

[Ephemeriis]

Personally, I would love to see Bungie (finally) create a non-Halo title. They make good games, it'd be nice to see a good game that isn't a moderate evolution of a previous one. Enough with the sequels.

If you've played any of Bungie's older titles you'll know that they've got a history of turning out good games. The Marathon series was fantastic, and while Myth was never my cup of tea it was very popular at the time. Even Oni was decent. It'll be good to see Bungie get back to their independent roots... Maybe see them turn out some more cross-platform titles now that they aren't tied to Microsoft.

However, I'm not sure I want to see them stop making Halo games. Sure, the gameplay itself is basically the same as any other shooter...but the setting is very interesting. I wouldn't mind seeing more games set in the Halo universe.

Re:Huh?

[dabraun]

Just because they own the IP and made the first few games, does not mean that they have to make all the games in perpituity.

Sure, but the MTV link is speculating about what would happen if they gave up the IP, which was reasonable speculation but isn't what happened. It seemed odd to bring it up *after* the details of the Bungie deal came out.

Actually, Microsoft is keeping the IP, not Bungie:

"Microsoft will retain an equity interest in Bungie, at the same time continuing its long-standing publishing agreement between Microsoft Game Studios and Bungie for the Microsoft-owned "Halo" intellectual property as well as other future properties developed by Bungie."

http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/2007/oct07/10-05BungieEvolvesPR.mspx

Re:Huh?

[KDR_11k]

I say it'll be Gearbox. Simply because those guys seem to be jumping in a lot for developers that don't want to continue work on one of their game series.

Re:Huh?

[efity]

Microsoft doesn't know how to milk people for money, you say? Let's look at two of Microsoft's base products, XP and Vista. Now they could just release two full-featured packages, one of XP and one of Vista, but that's not how you profit.

This is how you profit: Making ten versions of two products, with minor differences in between versions, but charging $100 more to advance to the next level.

XP Home Edition
XP Professional
XP Tablet PC Edition
XP Media Center Edition
XP Professional x64 Edition
Vista Home Basic
Vista Home Premium
Vista Business
Vista Enterprise
Vista Ultimate

While it's not exactly merchandising, it's pretty damn close.

Re:Huh?

[MagusZeal]

Considering how many people I know who buy games entirely for the multi I'll have to give a look at the campaign later on then.

Re:Huh?

[T-Bone-T]

Halo 3 was huge because it is at the climax of the story. It can't help but sell. Why do many sequels fail? They are the same character in the same world but with a new story. The old story is done and gone. Halo 2 is a different kind of sequel because it continued the story of Halo: CE and Halo 3 finishes the story. Just by playing Halo: CE and Halo 2 one can figure out the basic premise of Halo 3. The tag line says it all. What would Halo 4 even be about? It would just be a standard sequel.

Most games are a single story. The enemy is introduced, you battle the enemy, you beat the game by finally destroying the enemy. In Halo: CE, the enemy is the Covenant. You battle the Covenant and get introduced to the Flood, which you battle as well. The game ends with the destruction of Halo and the Flood but the Covenant remain, thus Halo 2. In Halo 2, you fight the Covenant and more of the Flood. The game ends with neither the destruction of the Covenant nor the Flood, thus Halo 3. Halo 3 finishes the fight. Then what? Why even go on? The story is over.

Re:Huh?

[vought]

I would love to see Bungie (finally) create a non-Halo title. Personally, I liked the Marathon series and Pathways to Darkness. You know, the non-Halo tiutles Bungie developed in the 1990s.

Marathon 2 was probably the best.

Re:Huh?

[thepartyanimal]

MTV may need avail himself of few reading comprehension classes.

Re:Huh?

[Glendale2x]

Finally? They have created plenty of non-Halo titles. The Myth series, the Marathon series (best storyline ever, if you're into that kind of thing), Pathways into Darkness...

And what's with this acting like Bungie becoming separate from Microsoft is something new? They *were* and independent studio before Microsoft hired them to make Halo exclusive for the Xbox. Otherwise, maybe we would have seen some modern chapters to Marathon without being dumbed down. They've made games worlds better than the Halo series - this is not new. What's news is hopefully they're getting back to their roots.

Re:Huh?

[gstoddart]

Not so with Microsoft; they know how to milk a cash cow when they find one. Merchandising! Merchandising! Where the real money from the game is made.

Wow, you've just summed up Disneys entire business model. :-P

Cheers

Re:Huh?

[Glendale2x]

I wouldn't mind seeing them make Halo into what they wanted it to be before Microsoft picked them up and it got retooled into a console shooter. I was hoping for more Marathon mythos... and I got "just shoot everything to get to the next level".

Re:Huh?

[Blakey Rat]

I think they're already pretty committed to releasing the Halo RTS on Xbox and PC... at least I got more than a couple ads about it in my Halo 3 box. (Then again, I got also got ads for Starcraft: Ghost in my WOW box, so I guess there are salt grains there.)

I'm pretty sure they're working on a non-Halo and probably non-Marathon title as well. (Myth 4? Oni 2? Or something new? Who knows.)

Re:Huh?

[iphayd]

Everyone knows the next Spaceballs will be "Spaceballs 3: The Search for Spaceballs 2."

Re:Huh?

[batura]

I personally want to see another Marathon title.... back from the good old days of an independent Bungie.

Re:Huh?

[douji]

i can't believe (almost) everyone's missing the spaceballs reference. that makes me sad :( (sidenote: back to the woot off. that makes me ANGRY!!!)

Re:Huh?

[Cheapy]

Like Marathon or Myth?

Re:Huh?

[Daetrin]

"Microsoft will retain an equity interest in Bungie, at the same time continuing its long-standing publishing agreement between Microsoft Game Studios and Bungie for the Microsoft-owned "Halo" intellectual property as well as other future properties developed by Bungie."

My understanding is that Microsoft has "first refusal" on the publishing rights for anything Bungie makes in the future. But Bungie will be able to work on whatever they want. Which means they could decide to make their next game for the Wii, and Microsoft would have the option to publish it. A Nintendo game with "Microsoft" in big letters on the box. How weird would that be?!?

Re:Huh?

[Yvan256]

You mean Star Wars : The Phantom Menace wasn't directed by Mel Brooks?

Re:Huh?

[Reapman]

I'll second that. The gameplay was very fun in Q4. I generally buy games for the single player experience primarily. (TeamFortress 2 is a big exception to that). I actually liked the storyline in Quake4, it was there, but did'nt get in the way of a good firefight :D

Re:Huh?

[DeepZenPill]

SPOILER ALERT:

But Master Chief is stuck in some unknown part of space after destroying the Ark. So he goes into cryogenic sleep, which on its own doesn't lead to the potential plot of a sequel, but when you factor in the ending after beating the game on Legendary difficulty there is some mystery that still begs resolution. You see his ship descend towards a previously unknown but developed planet, so is the fight really finished? Or has a new one begun?

Re:Huh?

[Khuffie]

Or you could be like Apple, and charge $100 for incremental updates every year or so. Also, you include Tablet PC Edition, which is only for OEMs and specific for tablet PCs, as well as Media Center Edition, which is again, only for OEMS and specific for Media Center PCs.

Re:Huh?

[Danse]

Finally? They have created plenty of non-Halo titles. The Myth series, the Marathon series (best storyline ever, if you're into that kind of thing), Pathways into Darkness... Sure, but they haven't done anything but Halo since they got bought by Microsoft. I think that was the point. It would be nice to see them finally get back to doing other things besides Halo.

Re:Huh?

[Danse]

Halo 3 finishes the fight. Then what? Why even go on? The story is over. Because they like money. Lots and lots of money. They will surely believe that anything with the Halo name on it will generate an obscene amount of cash for them. That alone will be reason enough to create another Halo game. If it bombs, then maybe they'll move on to something else. But they'll certainly try.

Re:Huh?

[MikeBabcock]

You do realize that some developers actually see their work as art, right? A lot of us also see it as such. Artistic integrity is really much more important to such people than money. Sure, money's great, but feeling good about the work you've accomplished is even better. Try it sometime.

Re:Huh?

[Ford Prefect]

I say it'll be Gearbox. Simply because those guys seem to be jumping in a lot for developers that don't want to continue work on one of their game series.

Gearbox did the PC port of the original Halo and, well... They weren't asked to do the port for Halo 2.

From rumours, there was a bit of ill-will between Microsoft and Gearbox - with for example the latter wanting to follow through on promises they'd made about the ability to mod the game, and with Microsoft insisting on intensive testing on every single bit of buggy Gearbox code.

Re:Huh?

[Pendersempai]

Somehow I don't think MSFT shareholders will see intellectual property capable of generating $170 million in a single day as something to be sacrificed in the name of art. Somehow I think if you were in their position, you wouldn't either.

Re:Huh?

[codemachine]

They don't necessarily have to do Halo 4 (though they have left the door open to do it).

The could do a prequel. They could do some side story with some other characters. Or they could just do a sequel with a "new threat". There are plenty of ways they could slap 'Halo' on the side of a game and not have to make it a direct sequel to the current storyline.

Inevitably it will happen. Perhaps they will wait until XBox 3 (whatever it ends up being called) to do it, but it'll happen.

Re:Huh?

[edis]

I do not know well what Halo is, but evolving relationship into that of more partnership, from what I have heard, seems pretty natural. And for the sake of your next Halo, besides.

Re:Huh?

[TheSkyIsPurple]

Funny, That really sounded like 3 standard sequels to me... just minor variations on the theme.

I haven't played any of them since I was so ticket when MS took Halo from the Mac for so long.

Re:Huh?

[Otter]

First off, it was written before they knew that bungie was going to continue the halo series, so they didn't know.

I'm not knocking them, I'm just surprised it was linked here *after* it ceased to have value.

Re:Huh?

[Ephemeriis]

I wouldn't mind seeing them make Halo into what they wanted it to be before Microsoft picked them up and it got retooled into a console shooter.

That has always been one of my biggest complaints about the whole Microsoft/Bungie thing. Back in the day, Bungie used to make predominantly Macintosh games. A lot of their titles were Macintosh only.

I remember seeing the original magazine articles about Halo and it looked very little like what actually came out on the Xbox. The original concept looked more like Team Fortress... Very multiplayer-oriented, with two distinct teams fighting for control of the planet. There was talk of having different classes much like in Team Fortress. At the time, Tribes (or was it Tribes 2?) was huge and comparisons were constantly made.

Instead... We got a decent, though not outstanding, console shooter. Multiplayer was just the usual deathmatch/ctf/whatever... No real distinct teams or classes... Nothing even remotely resembling Tribes or Team Fortress.

Re:Huh?

[tdelaney]

*Finally*? Bungie made games long before they joined Microsoft. Methinks you should go read the Bungie Wikipedia entry at the very least.

Re:Huh?

[mbourgon]

You think you're being funny. But you're not.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spaceballs:_The_TV_Series

Re:Huh?

[Penguinisto]

Err, OSX has only come out with four (not yet five) iterations over seven years. That comes to (at present) ~1.75 years between versions, and I'm still happily using 10.3 on the home Mac w/o any real incompatibilities.

Meanwhile, there are, at the present, exactly two versions of OSX you can purchase right now:

• The OSX 10.4 variant for normal desktops
• The OSX 10.4 variant for servers (which you only need if you have XServe)

Compared to the craptastically huge array of versions they have for Windows Vista (all of which differ in feature sets and price)?

Bleah. Not even close.

Re:Huh?

[Anonymous Coward]

For example, Id Software, despite providing the engine and making Quake 1-3, did not develop Quake 4 -- it developed by Raven Software And we all know how that turned out. Sometimes it's just better to end a series with a bang and pursue a new IP than drag the same old into perpetuity with increasingly mediocre sequels. ID knew the name Quake would sell on itself, so they lent it to their favorite sideshow developer, ending up in a decent campaign with shoddy multiplayer. Want multiplayer? Then you also have to buy Quake Wars.
In any case, the situation is entirely different with bungie, since they were owned 100% by Microsoft at the time. It comes as a suprise that they even had a say in the studio's future and weren't just dissolved into MS games, with the staff exodus that usually comes right after (read:Free Radical and RARE).

Re:Huh?

[ischorr]

Actually, 5 iterations, but one cost either $0 or $10, depending on how you got it.

Re:Huh?

[kestasjk]

And If I was a game developer working on the same title for years on end - I'd probably want a change too. Not so with Microsoft; they know how to milk a cash cow when they find one. Merchandising! Merchandising! Where the real money from the game is made. Halo: the T-shirt, Halo: the coloring book, Halo: the lunch box, Halo: the breakfast cereal, Halo: the flamethrower--the kids love this one--last but not least, Halo: the doll. *squeeze* "Gimme mah money, bitch!" Yup, the last thing we need is more crappy merchandise from Microsoft. I remember Vista the movie, Visual Studio.NET party balloons, Microsoft Office action figures; those guys just don't know when to stop.

The problem is that selling crappy merchandise is so much more lucrative than the billion dollar expanding software market.

Re:Huh?

[cataclyst]

Hate to break it to you, but there are 64-bit versions of all of the Vista flavors (AFAIK, basic may not have a x64 counterpart, but I believe it does), so it's more than 10 versions of OSes over the last few years.

Does make a little sense for licensing purposes, as your everyday Joe Schlub doesn't know about Linux and may not be willing/able to spring for an OS with all of the bells and whistles. OOhh, aero glass is so _shiny_.. blech

Re:Huh?

[mcmaddog]

Just a couple of corrections.

There have been five releases of OS X, 10.0, 10.1, 10.2, 10.3, and 10.4 and some could argue a sixth as OS X Server 1.0

OS X Server can be installed on any Mac, an XServe is not required or alternately you can also run OS X (client) on an XServe without any problem. Also technically there are two versions of Server, 10 connections or unlimited.

Now don't get me wrong, Apple's product family is nothing compared to MS's. In the late 90's I worked for the company that designed the packaging for MS (yes they are a Mac shop) and one day I saw the chart that tried to explain the product families and it looked ridiculous with how many versions that existed then let alone now.

Re:Huh?

[rtb61]

This looks more like brand shifting than anything else. M$ is pretty much a lame duck when it comes to branding, just look at the zune and the performance of M$'s other games. A lot of users are pissed off with M$'s attitude with regard to customers and it main products windows and office, which means that don't buy anything branded 'MS', mice, keyboards, or games.

M$ will be publishing all bungie titles, M$ retains an equity interest, likely a majority interest, so it really is only independent in terms of marketing and avoids the whole ballmer goatse stigma.

So will Bungie produce PS3/Wii titles or not.

Now are those sales of Halo 3 to actual customers or just to retailers.

Re:Huh?

[genaldar]

They did sequels long before Halo. Marthon had a sequel. Myth had a sequel. The only one that didn't was Oni, cause it sold 3 copies. So don't act like MS forced Bungie to make 3 Halo games.

Re:Huh?

[Gaerek]

I might agree with you, but there's a few pieces of information here that you aren't considering. 1) In the press release that Bungie put out stating the split from Microsoft, they said they would still work with Microsoft on future Halo games. Since we know that another company is working on Halo Wars, we know that Bungie won't be working on that. This, at least to me, concludes that they are planning on expanding on Halo in the future. 2) Did you see the Legendary ending of the game? They've left the story wide open. Sure, the story could be wrapped up in the movie, or in the paperbacks, but how often do movies based on games follow the continuity of the game itself? 3) Microsoft loves money. Each Halo game made them lots of money. Each Halo game made more money than the last. Bungie does not own Halo, Microsoft does. If Bungie doesn't do Halo 4, then another company will. People will still buy Halo 4 in great numbers no matter what the developers think about the game being art. In essence, Microsoft has no integrity, so therefore money is more important than that. There will be another Halo.

Re:Huh?

[abhi_beckert]

It's not fair to include OS X server when windows server wasn't included.

Re:Huh?

[DeeDob]

Sorry, but you havn't been keeping in touch with the Halo merchandising. AT ALL.

MS is looking VERY closely at everything published with the Halo brand. The Halo phenomenon could have been MUCH, MUCH bigger than what was shown.

Halo is viewed as an entertainment product, and not as a "videogame", by companies. So MS was approached with hundreds of proposals by numerous companies for merchandising products that were all refused.

What do we have with Halo 3?
- a limited comic book series in 4 volumes by Marvel.
- a new novel out at the end of october.
- a collectible board game (Halo ActionClix), by WizKids.
- some "action figures" by McFarlane Toys (out next spring).
- some 360 video games accessories with the "halo stamp".
- Mountain Dew.

Really, was the merchandising THAT bad? Don't doubt they have been asked by numerous companies to do T-Shirts, cheap board games, towels, toothpaste, gun toys, matchbox Halo "cars", 3D models of Halo vehicles, and more and more... On all of that, only the Mountain Dew is really somewhat "stange" for a video game, but then as i said, Halo is not only viewed as a videogame, but as an "entertainment product".

They have all been refused.

Now look at the second best selling (in the first day) entertainment product in history.
If you don't know, it's the movie: SpiderMan 3.
- the video game
- the toys (which have an entire section devoted to it in WalMart and Toys R Us, including the Spiderman 3 Mr. Potato Head)
- the burgers
- the drinks
- the towels
- the T-Shirts
- the bathrobes
- the car stickers
- ... (i'll stop there, they are too numerous to count).

With the way Microsoft has been handling the Halo merchandising, it's really been kept to a minimum. Yet you seem to think it was "too much?".
The only place where i have seen it be "too much", is on video games magazines websites such as gamesradar, IGN and GameSpot. Those arn't really under Microsoft control to begin with.

No really, the merchandising was kept to a minimum and the publicity was not "overblown" like so many movies (Heck i see more Project Gotham Racing 4 publicity on TV right now than i ever saw of Halo).

If anyone's to "blame" for the overexposition of Halo to you, it's the gaming "journalists", not Microsoft.

I can blame Microsoft when they do something "bad", but when they do it right, i recognize it. Halo merchandizing was very nicely made and not overblown for a product of this magnitude.

I know...

[Pojut]

...that I'm not on the inside so I don't know all the little happenings that occur behind closed doors, but it's quite obvious that the Halo franchise is a boon to both Bungie and to Microsoft...I wouldn't be suprised if Halo remained a Bungie and Microsoft exclusive venture....Bungie getting more freedom to do what they wish with the franchise, and getting a healthy sum of money from Microsoft in the process.

In all honesty, both sides would be foolish to give up the current relationship they have with that franchise, even if Bungie becomes 100% independent.

Re:I know...

[svendsen]

100% agreed. With all the money Bungie has mad from the MS deal they can use it to branch out the halo franchise, invest more into R&D, make new games, etc.

And MS...well we know how much Halo has helped them. So they don;t want to ruin it either.

Re:I know...

[I'm Don Giovanni]

I don't know that Bungie would get a "healthy sum of money from Microsoft" at the outset. Probably the opposite. Microsoft paid, let's say 50 million to buy Bungie (I don't really know the real amount) and the heads of Bungie got rich on that deal. But since then, Bungie's value has gone up 10-fold (Rare cost ~300 million; Bungie would be worth at least twice that today). It would seem that Bungie would have to buy back it's semi-independence by paying Microsoft at least some of what it would be worth in the open market, otherwise Microsoft is simply giving away a ~600 million dollar property.

I would guess that Bungie pays back some of its present worth, and commits to continuing to have its games published by Microsoft Game Studios (in the article, the Bungie guy calls MGS "our publisher" (for both now and in the future)), and therefore gets to return to its "independent roots".

Of course, if by "getting a healthy sum of money from Microsoft in the process", you referred to revenue earned from future Bungie titles, then sure! :)

Also, I imagine that Microsoft will continue funding Bungie's development of games, as well as funding and/or running the underpinnings of Bungie.net, since Bungie.net is much more than simply an "About Bungie" site, it's used for hosting billions of Halo statistics and whatnot.

Re:I know...

[Anonymous Coward]

It is.

The problem is that Halo is a just a part of the money sink that is the XBox, and I reckon that's on the way out.

The XBox always was a defensive move from Microsoft when they were afraid of what millions of Playstations connected to the net would do to IE and Windows. Answer: not much, and anyway Microsoft has accepted that they won't rule the Web like they do the Desktop. Hardware is not a business they want to be in. Keyboards and mice is different, it's got very low R&D costs, so it's a nice money spinner. Consoles, on the other hand, have very high *recurring* upfront costs and, as we're seeing now, you can rule the roost for one generation and bleed money the next.

I expect that the 360 will be the last Microsoft console, and that they'll produce a tight spec for a quiet non expandable living room PC, possibly XBox branded.

Re:I know...

[Pojut]

I expect that the 360 will be the last Microsoft console, and that they'll produce a tight spec for a quiet non expandable living room PC, possibly XBox branded.

It's funny you say that for two reasons.

1. Despite it's hardware faults, the 360 is STILL outselling the PS3.

2. Last time I checked, it was Sony that was incorporating more "non-gaming" features into it's consoles, not Microsoft. In fact, Sony has gone so far as to have entirely non-gaming related advertising for their GAMING console.

Personally, I wish they would both just shut up and stick with making gaming-only consoles. Yes, it's nice to have the features in my entertainment rack that the 360 and the PS3 provide, but come on...if I wanted that stuff to begin with, I would set up an HTPC that was much less of a hassle to fuck with and spend less money on my gaming console due to reduced R&D and cost.

Re:I know...

[Locutus]

or maybe the Bungie developers threatened to all quit if Microsoft did not let them go back to being independent. If you notice, they have been somewhat tied to MS Xbox360 and that's not being too independent. The PS2 is still the dominant game platform and the PS3 isn't something to just ignore. Not to mention the Bungie developers might actually want to product a PS3 version because of what that hardware brings.

Just as Microsoft purchased SoftImage only to get them to product a Windows OS version and tried to terminate the UNIX version because the goal was to build support for the WindowsNT OS. In the SoftImage deal, Microsoft ran into major fights with employees over this Windows-only push from Microsoft. Microsoft eventually spit SoftImage back out and they continue to support both *nix and Windows platforms. This Bungie split sounds quite like the SoftImage deal and especially so after hearing how well Halo 3 for Xbox360 sold. You'd think Microsoft would REALLY want to keep control of that kind of money maker and not let the split off to support the other guys.

And who knows, maybe there was quite an uproar from other game vendors because of the ownership of competing game developers such as Bungie? Would really like to know how/why this happened.

LoB

Re:I know...

[Machtyn]

Which brings this to my question, which I think is more important than the one asked by MTV: Does this mean Bungie can make Halo for other systems, such as the PS3 or Wii(iiii)? But I'm more interested in decent PC ports. My bag is all things Half-Life.

/I've already got my Orange Box set
//Can't wait for Portal, that looks wild.
///Still a little peeved I had to repurchase HL2 in the box set... I already bought it once!
(still, can't beat 5 games for the price of 1 console game).

Re:I know...

[edwdig]

Rare cost ~300 million; Bungie would be worth at least twice that today

MS paid Nintendo ~300 million for Nintendo's 49% share of Rare. Presumably they paid Rare a similar amount for the rest of the company.

As for comparing the values of the company, that's a tough call. Rare owned the rights to Perfect Dark, Banjo-Kazooie, Killer Instinct, Conker, and some assorted other properties, some recent, some not. The only thing Bungie has done in this decade is Halo, which MS is retaining the rights to. They've got the rights to their older games, but none of them are fresh, so their value is low. Rare also was a much larger studio. Bungie works on one game at a time, whereas Rare typically did 3-4 at a time back then.

Re:I know...

[Locutus]

I don't believe Microsoft will get out of the console/gaming market any time soon. There is just too much of a threat that the console become the hub of peoples home computing use they can't let that happen. They were/are willing to lose billions just on a tiny handheld OS jut to kill off the competition( Palm ) so that the handheld doesn't leave Windows out of the picture. There are many other examples of Microsoft spending/losing/investing/whatever millions just to prevent the competition from gaining or growing.

So, IMO, there is no way Microsoft will walk away from the console gaming market. IMO, they bought Bungie and other developers to force games out for the Xbox. They probably told Bungie they'd be independent and the fools believed them. Bungie developers and management want out of Microsoft or they'll all leave Microsoft with just a name and no track forward. Microsoft negotiated a way to keep them making certain games for the Xbox in the future an to revenues from those games. Atleast that is how I see it playing out from years of insight on how Microsoft does businesses.

LoB

Re:I know...

[svendsen]

Good question on can they make games for the PC. I am curious to know the cost differences between PC and say the 360. I don;t just mean from a pure code and port stand point but from testing, technical issues, and support. What is the ROI for the same game on the 360 vs. PC? Now the PC has a bigger base (though this doesn't mean it translates always to higher sales) but the 360 will have less support needed.

Now my P4 3ghz (not a dual core), 2 gigs of ram, and my ATI 9800 pro 256 meg PCI card are falling way behind the times. My MB does not support PCI-E. So to play new PC games requires me to dump say about a grand into a brand new system....or I could buy a PS3 and Wii and 360....

Re:I know...

[superpulpsicle]

PS3 is desperate for more quality games. Usually I would oppose a franchised title jumping boat, its as strange as Mario supporting xbox. But in this case, its better for bungie.

Re:I know...

[Anonymous Coward]

1) Wii continues to outsell both PS3 & XB2 on a monthly basis
2) Worldwide Wii is #2, PS3 #1, with XB2 coming in #3
3) Worldwide sales figures are important to developers, because with skyrocketing development costs the US sales sometimes doesn't get them to the break even point

A lot of developers are being bitch-slapped by the marketplace, where they bet heavily that XB2 would be the end-all console and that the Wii would be a dead-end.

As a result many are scrambling to get Wii products to the market before weak XB2/PS3 sales bankrupts them. Luckily development costs & times on Wii titles have been low, some were developed & released in such a short time that they beat existing XB2/PS3 projects in development to the market.

Re:I know...

[Machtyn]

A non-dual core 3GHz processor is actually much better than, say a 4GHz (2x2GHz) dual core processor, as far as gaming is concerned. I know of only one game that actually uses dual core. Your system sounds fine. Yeah, the lack of PCI-E is a bummer, but your graphics card is nice.

Re:I know...

[mink]

Multicore chips don't list clock speed as a sum (at least in the land of POWER). If I get a system with dual core 4.1 GHZ chip in it, each core is running at 4.1 GHZ not 2.05 GHZ.

I know

[Anonymous Coward]

MTV wonders out loud ... if Bungie doesn't make Halo 4 who will? Uwe Boll. It's going to be the world's first interactive Broadway musical in space plot.

Halo 3

[sunsfan1991]

Comming soon to the Wii

Re:Halo 3

[Anonymous Coward]

I would seriously love a Bungie fps on the Wii. After playing with Metroid Prime 3 using the Wii remote and nuchuck, I truly believe that it is the perfect way to play an FPS.

Re:Halo 3

[Chineseyes]

I don't think you really want that. Judging by all of the other ports to the Wii it will be pretty crappy in comparison to the xbox360 version.

Re:Halo 3

[AcidLacedPenguiN]

SPARTAN117: Confirmed for Brawl.

Re:Halo 3

[AgentPaper]

No, nobody's making popcorn, that's just the sound of millions of fanboys' heads exploding.

Re:Halo 3

[Blakey Rat]

Microsoft is letting Rare port Viva Pinata to Nintendo consoles. Confirmed on Nintendo DS, rumored for Wii: http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3163164

Stranger things have happened than Halo 3 on Wii. The major problem is that the Wii hardware is way too wimpy to run the engine-- they can back-port it to the Halo 1 engine, maybe. ;)

Re:Halo 3

[OrangeTide]

How about Halo 1 on Wii, with the maps and story from halo 1,2, and 3 all put together into one super non-stop game. That way it wouldn't take less than a day to get through the entire story on single player.

misleading

[Bizzeh]

bungie arnt LEAVING microsoft, microsoft will continue to own and own the right too bungie, but bungie will now be free to do their own projects outside of halo.

Re:misleading

[Anonymous Coward]

microsoft will continue to own and own the right too bungie

Wrong. MS will retain partial ownership only.

Remember when Nintendo passed on their option to completely buy out Rare? At the time, Nintendo only partially owned Rare (49%, I think). Nintendo sold off their portion of the company out of dissatisfaction, leaving Rare open to a complete buyout by MS. MS's relationship with Bungie is now similar to Nintendo's with Rare prior to Rare's sellout - MS retains Halo, just like Nintendo retained (and still retains) Donkey Kong Country. But currently MS does not retain the rights to Bungie's own IPs like Marathon, just like Nintendo does not have the rights to Perfect Dark.

Full Marathon refresh on Wii, anyone?

Nobody should be surprised

[paleo2002]

Ever since Bungie was purchased by Microsoft, they've done nothing but produce Halo for the XBox. No PC ports, no different games, they're barely even allowed to produce story-driven single player content. Go back and look at Bungie's pre-Xbox games: the Marathon series (which was intended to tie in to Halo), the Myth series, even Pathways into Darkness was more original than Halo 3.

I was angry with Bungie when, just a few months before Halo was to be released as a Mac exclusive, Microsoft bought them out and put them to work. But eventually I began to feel sorry for them. Bungie has had its creativity stifled for quite some time now and they've finally realized it.

Re:Nobody should be surprised

[EveryNickIsTaken]

Ever since Bungie was purchased by Microsoft, they've done nothing but produce Halo for the XBox. No PC ports So.. what exactly is Halo 2 for Vista?

Re:Nobody should be surprised

[Tridus]

A very very pathetic attempt at marketing.

Re:Nobody should be surprised

[k_187]

Not made by bungie.

Re:Nobody should be surprised

[Bert64]

Many people bought the xbox specifically to play halo...
A lot of those same people may have chosen a mac for the same reason. (personally i don't think halo is all that great of a game)

Re:Nobody should be surprised

[Ambitwistor]

I was angry with Bungie when, just a few months before Halo was to be released as a Mac exclusive, Microsoft bought them out and put them to work. IIRC, Halo was never intended to be a Mac exclusive: it was slated to be a Mac/PC release. In the public announcement at Steve Jobs' 1999 keynote address, they might have said it would come out on the Mac first, but I know they definitely had a PC prototype running at the time (that's what they ported the Mac demo from).

Re:Nobody should be surprised

[plague3106]

You're kidding right? Xbox was what, $300 at most when it came out? And you honestly think people would buy a Mac if Halo would have been an exclusive title? Not very likely at all. I doubt having Halo exclusively cause that many Xboxes to even be sold.

Re:Nobody should be surprised

[shoptroll]

Ummm... Marathon anyone?

Also Halo was slated to be a real time strategy game originally when it was on the Mac. Not a FPS.

Re:Nobody should be surprised

[plague3106]

That still doesn't answer why they'd create a mac exclusive. If it wouldn't have been for Halo on the Xbox, I would have never heard of bungie or marathon. I'm betting there's plenty of people out there just like me.

Re:Nobody should be surprised

[gravis777]

No PC ports? I am happily playing Halo and Halo 2 on the PC.

I was just thinking, wouldn't it be funny, sice they are no longer part of Microsoft, if they released a PS3 port of Halo?

Re:Nobody should be surprised

[PhoenixOne]

Halo was a big console pusher for the XBox. In fact, 5 to 10 years from now, it will probably be the only game most people remember playing on the original XBox.

But you're right, it wouldn't have sold that many Macs. One of the reasons it did so well, IMHO, is because it provided a great FPS experience to people without requiring a $1200+ gaming rig. By the time Halo2 came out, you could buy the system and the game for less than the price of a high-end video card.

Re:Nobody should be surprised

[dabraun]

Many people bought the xbox specifically to play halo...
A lot of those same people may have chosen a mac for the same reason. (personally i don't think halo is all that great of a game)

You're assuming that Halo would have been the same game without Microsoft. I have a feeling that a) Halo wouldn't have been nearly as successful without Microsoft and b) Halo isn't really the game Bungie wanted to create in the first place. I have no idea if it would have been a "better" game or not, but to assume it would have had the same system-selling attributes without Microsoft is ... assuming a lot.

Re:Nobody should be surprised

[I'm Don Giovanni]

I hate to break this to you, but Bungie was on its way to bankruptcy and the Microsoft buy-out saved them. There were reports to that effect at the time.

Besides that, do a web search for an "Evolution of Halo" video. It's a quicktime video made a few years ago, about 30 minutes long or so (maybe an hour), that features Bungie developers showing footage of Halo at its various stages of development, since it was first announced at Mac World, then became a PC/Mac title, and right up until the Xbox version. The video includes commentary by three Bungie devs and at one point they talk of the fact that had it not been for Microsoft, Halo would never have been completed and released, period. Bungie was on the ropes as a company before MS bought them.

Re:Nobody should be surprised

[Glendale2x]

Look at their past titles - Mac games with some Windows ports. It's not really a stretch that they'd want to create a possible successor to Marathon as a Mac game. It probably would have been Mac exclusive at launch and then ported to Windows later, like Marathon 2.

Re:Nobody should be surprised

[Altus]

The promise of Halo in the pre MS days was so much more than what was ultimately delivered. Its possible that they were reaching too far before but I suspect the MS purchase and the switch to the X-box was most of the issue. So I agree with you there...

But I don't remember Halo being Mac exclusive. Bungee had been producing cross platform games for quite some time. I believe Halo was originally slated for a simultaneous Mac/PC release.

Re:Nobody should be surprised

[Altus]

while it is true that they needed an infusion of cash, its not a stretch to imagine a world where that cash came from another source. Someplace like Apple for instance (to make it mac exclusive, or at least mac first) or perhaps another gaming company.

Clearly this was a good move for MS, but I remember what was being promised with Halo back in the beginning and what was delivered was very different. At least some of those changes were due to the fact that it was an X-box release instead of a Mac/PC game.

Re:Nobody should be surprised

[Blakey Rat]

Ever since Bungie was purchased by Microsoft, they've done nothing but produce Halo for the XBox. No PC ports,

You can buy Halo and Halo 2 for PC right now:
http://www.gamestop.com/product.asp?product_id=645137
http://www.gamestop.com/product.asp?product_id=646888

no different games, they're barely even allowed to produce story-driven single player content.

Have you even played the single-player story in the Halo series? I know more than a couple people who bought Halo 3 to specifically see how the story ends, and have no interest in multiplayer at all.

the Marathon series (which was intended to tie in to Halo), the Myth series, even Pathways into Darkness was more original than Halo 3.

There were three games in the Marathon series, over about the same timespan the three Halo games came out. Surely Halo 3 is not *that* original, but neither was Marathon 3. In fact, Halo 3 is a lot more innovative over previous Halo games than Marathon 3 was over previous Marathon games... not only does Halo 3 have a vastly modified and improved engine (that Marathon 3 didn't have), but it has additional gameplay elements, like deployable items.

I was angry with Bungie when, just a few months before Halo was to be released as a Mac exclusive,

Halo was never intended to be a Mac exclusive. It was intended to be released first for Mac, then ported to Windows shortly afterward.

Bungie has had its creativity stifled for quite some time now and they've finally realized it.

Do you have any basis for saying this? Or is it just the normal Slashdot "I made something up then presented it as fact?" I've never heard anything about stifled creativity from any Bungie employees or anybody else in the industry.

Come to think of it, is there a single fact in your entire post?

Re:Nobody should be surprised

[Anonymous Freak]

Halo wasn't to be a Mac exclusive, it was just coming to Mac first.

I was really annoyed, too. I hope this returns their creativity, and they come out with a truly *GOOD* game for the mac, like they originally planned.

Re:Nobody should be surprised

[enderjsv]

I don't get it. Where have you ever read/seen/heard that Microsoft was stifling Bungie's creativity. That doesn't make a whole lot of sense if you think about it. Microsoft paid a lot of money for Bungie. It's not like the abducted Bungie and forced them to be their slaves. It was a two way deal, and it's easy to see why Bungie accepted the deal. With all the extra money, they could do bigger things. It's no lie that building games costs a lot of money.

From the looks of things, it seems that Microsoft is trying very hard to please Bungie. Hell, they're letting them go. How does the saying go, "if you love someone, let them go, blah blah blah". It hardly sounds like Microsoft is being the tyranical Bungie-opressing overlords some people are trying to make them out to be.

Re:Nobody should be surprised

[Osty]

while it is true that they needed an infusion of cash, its not a stretch to imagine a world where that cash came from another source. Someplace like Apple for instance (to make it mac exclusive, or at least mac first) or perhaps another gaming company.

In which scenario Halo never woudld've sold nearly as well as it actually did, there never would've been a Halo 2 or 3, and Bungie would've died a year later than they would've without the cash infusion. Like it or not, the Microsoft purchase and Xbox focus were the best things that could've happened to Bungie at the time, and are the reason that Bungie can return to a semi-independent status. It looks like they'll have a similar kind of relationship as Ensemble does with Microsoft, where they're technically independent but nobody can name any non-Microsoft-published properties from them.

Re:Nobody should be surprised

[Bert64]

It may not have sold many systems alone, but it could easily have influenced the decision of someone who was going to buy a new machine anyway.
Back in the days, Doom especially prompted people to buy x86 compatible running dos, which were otherwise typically just used for office-type applications. Prior to that, most people who wanted games systems bought Nintendo, Sega or Amiga systems. Running games on dos was a huge pain in the backside, the systems were much more expensive and most other games were simply not up to the same standard, or weren't ported at all.

Re:Nobody should be surprised

[Altus]

From a business perspective I totally understand that this was the right move at the right time for both parties, but from my point of view, the title suffered for it.

The thing is... sure, Halo wouldn't have been as successful, but if it was a better game that would have made me, as someone who wanted to play the game they were originally talking about, quite happy.

Additionally, Marathon managed to have 2 sequels and bungie was an independent company at the time. Heck Marathon 1 was only on the mac so it didn't even have the potential audience that it would have if it were a Mac/PC game. While you can say that Halo would not have been as successful if not for MS, you cant say for sure that there wouldn't have been sequels if someone else had provided the cash infusion.

Personally, I don't much care for Halo as it stands. Its "Just Another FPS" as far as im concerned. So speaking personally I would rather have had a single game like the one they were talking about before the MS buyout than 3 games I don't want to play.

Re:Nobody should be surprised

[plague3106]

I did, and I can see that they WERE targeting mac exclusively. The question still remains as to WHY. It doesn't make good economic sense.

They can port all they want; I don't think many people knew of Marathon 2. Hits on the Mac don't necessarly translate to hits on the PC. Again, if MS didn't buy Bungie, I would've never heard of them or Marathon.

Re:Nobody should be surprised

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, I'm sure they're going to jump right into developing games for macs... Because this whole Xbox thing has been so rough on them. I'm sure all the devs they've amassed will be every happy to start developing for a platform such a strong gaming audience like Mac, and the tools they'll be able to use, at least it's not that crappy Microsoft stuff that obviously just held them back.

I'm sure they're looking forward to facing bankruptcy again as well. Good times!

Or maybe they'll just keep down this path that's been successful for them? That'd be crazy though, since it has nothing to do with macs.

Re:Nobody should be surprised

[neoform]

Halo was never Mac exclusive, it was being made for windows as well. They did that with every version of myth and even had a windows version of Marathon 2.

Bungie *was* primarily a Mac company, but they haven't been Mac exclusive for a long time.

Re:Nobody should be surprised

[Locutus]

Microsoft does these kinds of things to either kill off a product for another platform or to force the new purchase into the wonderful world of Windows. They've been pretty successful at protecting their monopoly in the PC OS market and IMO, Bungie was a way for them to "grow" the Xbox marketshare. If there are profits, it's a bonus but the real reason for all of this is to protect the Windows monopoly. It is there that their 10s of billions in annual profits come from. My guess is that Bungie fought back internally and wants to be on its own again. There is a larger market for games than the Xbox. Over the last 5 or so years, Microsoft is a distant 3rd place in the console market after all.

And WTF? Microsoft is letting Bungie go for love? WTF universe is this?

LoB

Re:Nobody should be surprised

[MikeBabcock]

You mean because it was made for a $1200 gaming rig that was being subsidized by Microsoft? Fine, it wasn't worth $1200, but it was probably close when it came out. Consoles are sold at a loss and everyone gives Sony a hard time re: the PS3 but Microsoft is just downright incredible in how much money its willing to lose per console. Go look up how profitable the gaming division at MS has been in the last 5 years. Come on. Check.

Re:Nobody should be surprised

[enderjsv]

I'm not going to try to defend Microsoft as a company, since that would be a futile effort here on slashdot. All I'm saying is that there is absolutely no proof that Bungie has any ill-will towards Microsoft, and even if they do, it's their own fault for selling out to Microsoft in the first place. I personally believe Halo wouldn't have achieved the type of success it has now without the aid of Microsoft. They probably wouldn't have been anywhere close, and if you're right and the split between Microsoft and Bungie really is part of some Bungie mutiny, then I'd have to point the "ungrateful" finger in Bungie's direction. Still, I don't think Bungie is that petty. I'm sure they are very grateful for Microsoft's influence, and all the evidence I've seen reinforces that opinion.

Re:Nobody should be surprised

[PhoenixOne]

I don't like to make personal attacks, but did somebody poop in your Cheerios this morning? ;)

I don't recall saying anything about Microsoft not subsidizing the XBox to get a foothold in the gaming market (they did). Or talking about Sony at all.

Please vent your anti-"M$" rage where it fits.

Re:Nobody should be surprised

[enderjsv]

I love that the legendary, mythical non-MS Halo game gets respect simply because of what was "promised" by Bungie. You know how the grass is always greener on the other side? That's kind of how I see that mythical game. People "blame" Microsoft for the way Halo turned out and long for this perfect version of Halo that should have been. In reality, the Halo game probably wouldn't have been that amazing. And as for the way Halo did turn out, well, it turned out great. I completely respect the fact that you don't care much for game, but I thinks it's fairly clear that many people do. A lot. I can't say with absolute certainty that I like the current Halo series better than what might have been, but I wouldn't take a chance and change it.

Re:Nobody should be surprised

[enderjsv]

The promise of Halo in the pre MS days was so much more than what was ultimately delivered.

The promise of most games is much more than what is ultimately delivered. It's a very rare thing that a game lives up to its hype. If only I had a "what-if" machine, I'd bet you a sizeable amount of coinage that even without MS influence, the game Bungie promised would not be the game that they delivered. Stop assuming that MS influence prevented what in your eyes would have been a better game when you really have no basis for that assumption.

Re:Nobody should be surprised

[PhoenixOne]

I'm not sure about this.

When Doom-II was the hot item, Mac had a great game called "Marathon". The game kicked ass in almost all the ways Halo did (just with 1990's graphics). When I showed the game to PC owners, they got jealous.

Did it influence many purchasing decisions? Not that I'm aware of. And while Bungie was popular in the small Mac gaming circles, they didn't become a household name until they released a product on the console.

Re:Nobody should be surprised

[Altus]

Actually, I'm not so much blaming MS as I am lamenting the move from a PC game to a Console game. Consoles are not PCs you don't make the same game for a console as you do for a PC.

So maybe Im blaming MS for making it an xbox game... but thats really missing the point. Consoles aren't PCs.

Its not even so much about better or worse, just different. I'm simply lamenting that the very different game that could have been, never got produced. I don't think I ever really blamed MS in any of my posts. If sony had bought Bungie the effect would have been very similar.

Re:Nobody should be surprised

[Anonymous Coward]

I love that the legendary, mythical non-MS Halo game gets respect simply because of what was "promised" by Bungie. You know how the grass is always greener on the other side? That's kind of how I see that mythical game.

Forget the promises, just look at the track record. Bungie's previous games were far better than Halo (although I have not tried either of the sequels). Before Microsoft, the hallmarks of a Bungie game were extremely innovative gameplay, clever level design, and an engrossing, well-written story. With Halo we got an FPS retread full of copy/paste levels (The second half of the game is just the first half played backwards! Come on, Bungie!) and the only reason anyone thinks its story is nifty is because they're used to games whose stories barely exist outside of the two introduction pages at the front of the manual.

Halo is pretty slick and it's obviously very popular but it's not special, and that is sad given Bungie's past.

Re:Nobody should be surprised

[Blakey Rat]

Nice paranoid rant about Microsoft, but it doesn't answer the parent's question.

What makes you, or anybody, think that Microsoft was stifling Bungie's creativity? Was there an interview with someone at Bungie? Or, more likely, did the grandparent simply pull it out of thin air?

Re:Nobody should be surprised

[Locutus]

not a gamer but still I found that there was a mass migration out of MS/Bungie not long ago. Surely not a sign of a happy camp.

LoB

Re:Nobody should be surprised

[Locutus]

Microsofts long long history should tell you that if you are any kind of a free thinker, any tie to Microsoft is not going to be fun. Its Job #1 isa as a freak'n marketing company and if that's new to you, oh well. Although I'm not a gamer I did find that there was a mass migration out of MS/Bungie not long ago. Surely not a sign of a happy camp.

Not to mention that a split like this and one after such public press releases about how well Halo did for MS/Xbox, why else would Microsoft let them go? They've lost money on everthing they've done outside of leveraging the Windows OS monopoly so it's tough to come up with a sane reason for Microsoft letting Bungie go.

Google around and check the gaming forums. You'll find more hands-on comments about what's happening.

LoB

Re:Nobody should be surprised

[nobodyman]

I was angry with Bungie when, just a few months before Halo was to be released as a Mac exclusive, Microsoft bought them out and put them to work. But eventually I began to feel sorry for them. Bungie has had its creativity stifled for quite some time now and they've finally realized it

I don't necessarily hold it against them. At the end of the day Bungie needed money to finance Halo's development, and no Mac publisher at the time had the $$$ to handle such a thing. You could argue that Bungie sold out, but if they hadn't sold out to Microsoft it's quite likely that they would have to accept the terms of another publisher, and I suspect those terms would be much worse than what Microsoft was offering.

On that note: There's a penny-arcade strip that echoes Bungie's predicament (is there a Karma whore out there willing to look it up? My company firewall blocks out PA when they should block /.). Basically the Bungie devs are come to the realization, after churning out countless Halo sequels, that they actually died shortly before launch of Halo 1 in a car wreck or something and they were in hell)

Re:Nobody should be surprised

[Kelz]

Makes one wonder if Halo would be nearly as popular if it was released as a PC/Mac game.

Personally, I think Gordon Freeman beats the crap out of Master Chief any day of the week.

Re:Nobody should be surprised

[Anonymous Coward]

Just to be fair to the original poster, Halo & Halo 2 were ported to Mac/PC by third parties, not by Bungie.

Not only that, but there was a pretty steady stream of bullshit coming out of this Halo developer during the port about how great the XBox hardware was, which made the port so much harder. Effectively they acted as a shill for Microsoft's marketing department, to try and foster the idea that the XBox was substantially faster than even the fastest PC or Mac. Ultimately the reason the port was "hard" for the developer was because Microsoft chose a very inexperienced but politically well connected (to Microsoft) developer to do the port, primarily because they were the only ones willing to whore out their credibility in this fashion.

And as for Bungie being unhappy about being part of Microsoft - just look at how many of the people originally scooped up in the original Bungie purchase are still there. A large number of them jumped ship as soon as their contractual obligation to hang around ran out. Hell, everyone I knew who worked at FASA pre-merger jumped ship after their contracts expired.

Listen, it's no great secret that Microsoft is a ridiculously clique-ish place to work - if you don't find a clique to fit into, you'll be excluded, which means you won't be given projects to work on. Even though you'll still be working there, still drawing a paycheck, politics will effectively exclude you from being put on project teams, which puts you into a kind of no-project purgatory where you show up for work but don't really have anything to do.

Normally after enough time in this purgatory middle management will finally realize that you're not doing anything and fire you. However if you're contractually obligated to be there for X years they usually can't fire you (obviously they can if you give them cause - do something against company policy, like sexual harassment, not showing up for work, etc.), which leads to a period of extreme job dissatisfaction, so people tend to leave ASAP.

This move certainly makes it sounds like enough people in Bungie hung around to form their own clique, and that clique is effectively going to break off from Microsoft. Frankly, I wish them the best of luck, and hope that their experiences pre-Microsoft have prepared them for life in the real world - for a few years now they've been living in MicrosoftLand, where every ridiculous project gets greenlit because the endless-coffers of monopoly OS licensing will pay all bills. That kind of absurdity will have to come to an end.

Re:Nobody should be surprised

[jt2377]

OH, please. If Halo wasn't an Xbox only title. It will never spark Halo 2 and 3. Halo will be just another FPS for PC/Mac. You need a dose of reality from your la-la land.

Re:Nobody should be surprised

[I'm Don Giovanni]

"while it is true that they needed an infusion of cash, its not a stretch to imagine a world where that cash came from another source. Someplace like Apple for instance (to make it mac exclusive, or at least mac first) or perhaps another gaming company."

It wasn't just "infusion of cash" that was needed, focus was also needed. Halo had been in development for years, and, contrary to popular belief, was nowhere near being completed. It's focus kept changing, it's very genre kept changing (moving between RTS, FPS, action-RPG-type thing, etc). When Microsoft bought Bungie, Microsoft directed them to get the game out in time for Xbox's launch. This focus drove them to complete the game rather than continue the open-ended unfocused development. Again, that "Evolution of Halo" video talks about this.

That brings to mind, if you watch the "Making of Halo 2" DVD that comes wtih Halo 2 LE, Bungie devs talk of how Halo 2's development was all over the place as well, missed ship dates, a whole year gone by with nothing but drawing board material that kept changing. Microsoft had to step in and get Bungie on track for that game too, and Halo 2 came out a year later. But it was only half the game Bungie had intended, because so much time was wasted that resulted in nothing. That's also the reason for Halo 2's abrupt cliff-hanger ending. This makes me worried for what Bungie will do on its own now, since it took Microsoft to focus them when making Halo and Halo 2. Without a "grownup", if you will, giving them a sense of direction and/or schedule, will they go back to open-ended unfocused development?

Re:Nobody should be surprised

[Scudsucker]

What makes you, or anybody, think that Microsoft was stifling Bungie's creativity?

Forcing a game out half-finished, for starters?

Bring back Marathon!

[Anonymous Coward]

Perhaps Bugnie wants to get back to developing for other non-windows platforms as well?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marathon_Trilogy

Re:Bring back Marathon!

[dabraun]

Perhaps Bugnie wants to get back to developing for other non-windows platforms as well?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marathon_Trilogy [wikipedia.org]

Given that Microsoft remains Bungie's exclusive publisher, I don't think that's gonna happen - unless by "non-windows platforms" you mean Xbox 360.

Re:Bring back Marathon!

[TheNetAvenger]

Possible, but I seriously doubt it...

Bungie devs have become, and 'continue' to be some of the strongest propoents of DirectX and XBox technologies, so don't expect an OpenGL release for other platforms anytime soon.

What you can expect, Bungie gets a bit more money and the ability to branch out beyond Halo. Bungie will also probably take their work with MS studios for game 'play' testing innovations and possibly do consulting on other software titles.

They won't let him jump TOO far...

[davidsyes]

They'll attach to his hip with a deep-a-ccord...

Can we say it?

[russbutton]

Bungie is jumping...

Re:Can we say it?

[dzelenka]

I can't believe it took 15 minutes for this pun to show up. I can't believe it wasn't part of the story headline.

Re:Can we say it?

[Anonymous Coward]

I can't believe it took 15 minutes for this pun to show up. I can't believe it wasn't part of the story headline.

Neither can I. A setup like that is such is a gift from the comedy gods. It was the very first thing I though of, but I was sure someone else would beat me to it (I was right).

Re:Can we say it?

[ToastyKen]

I don't get how this is a pun. Is Microsoft a shark? I don't know of any puns about Bungie and sharks? What am I missing?

Re:Can we say it?

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh God, it's finally happened - the memes have so taken over everyone's minds that they can't comprehend a genuine pun anymore!

This isn't about that old "jumping the shark" phrase. The company's name is Bungie. They're jumping ship from Microsoft.

Bungie.

Jumping.

It's a joke about BUNGIE JUMPING, you insensetive clod!

Yea, like releasing more PC products.

[WarlockD]

All they do is make Halo and even then we wait a YEAR for the PC release.

There is no excuse for that other than to squeaze as much as they can in the 360 market. I just wonder if they will be given the same freedom as an "independent"

Re:Yea, like releasing more PC products.

[Pojut]

From a consumers point of view, that is a shitty stupid thing to do...but look at it from a buisness point of view, or more specifically Microsoft's point of view...it makes perfect sense.

Microsoft already has a legal monopoly in the computing industry...they are only in their second generation in the gaming industry. They need something to help cement themselves into place...the halo series is one of their primary tools for doing so. While for CONSUMERS it would make more sense and would be better to release them simultaneously, it wouldn't make much sense for their console devision...I can assure you, Microsoft would most likely rather sell you a copy of a game for their console which they lose money on/barely make any money on (the console itself, that is) which is trying to establish itself rather than sell you a copy of a game for an operating system that has a steadfast hold on the industry.

I'm not saying it's right, I'm just saying that I understand.

Re:Yea, like releasing more PC products.

[happyemoticon]

That is very true - Halo was used to drive Xbox sales. It's the whole "killer app" phenomenon. The point that needs to be emphasized, though, is not that consumers were losing out, but that Bungie was losing out. They were losing money they would have made if they were not forced to make Halo an almost-exclusive title, and I betcha they lost even more money on that whole "Direct X 10 Only Because We Need to Sell Vista" debacle.

If I was an employee at Bungie, I'd be thinking something along the lines of, "Oh, so look what's happened: we've gone from one of the industry's most respected niche game developers to a subsidiary which exists first and foremost to make Microsoft's shitty products more appealing, not to make great games." Then, I'd be talking to my buddies about leaving en masse and founding a startup studio - and oh yeah, fat chance of releasing anything for the 360. So I wouldn't be terribly surprised if the separation was made to meet the staff halfway and prevent a brain drain.

This may sound a bit passionate, but game developers tend to be just about the most passionate software developers on the planet - you have to be, to endure the rigors and frequent lack of reward. And given that level of passion, I wouldn't be surprised if some people were downright irate over being forced to sabotage something they put years of work into.

Apparently...

[Floritard]

Bungie is as tired of hearing about Halo as I am!

I liked Myth alot

[uncledrax]

What the subject says..
Anyone that read the Black Company series can find the tie ins and some overall plot similarities, but Bungie still filled in alot of their own content and added alot of unique things. It was an 'inspired by' and not a copy. I liked that.. it was good.

Probably the best thing about the Myth series was it was one of the first games I recall that had no mod tools, but was still heavily modded. Unfortunately I couldn't get into Myth 3 nearly as much as I could Myth 1 or 2.

VR Pool Party 4 lyfe!

Re:I liked Myth alot

[Sloppy]

Probably the best thing about the Myth series was it was one of the first games I recall that had no mod tools, but was still heavily modded.

I'm so confused. What were Hammer and Anvil (which came on my Myth2 CD from Loki) if not mod tools? Were those tools supplied by Loki? I might be misremembering, but I thought my lil' brother had those on his (non-Loki) Mac version, too.

Re:I liked Myth alot

[Anonymous Coward]

They were Fear and Loathing, a tags editor and a mesh editor for Myth 2, which came with the game. Loki might have called them something different.

Bungie didn't release Fear and Loathing for TFL because they were buggy and only ran on MacOS with a debugger.

Re:I liked Myth alot

[mycroft822]

Bungie actually did release mod tools for Myth 2, I believe they were called Fear and Loathing. You are right in that the Myth 1 did not have tools, but did still have a very active mod community. The reason Myth 3 was not so great is because Bungie did not make it.

Re:I liked Myth alot

[uncledrax]

Yeah.. sorry.. i mispoke.. Myth 2 did have them, Myth 1 didn't. But the other posters pointed that out already.

Oni 2?

[denzacar]

Soo... does this mean that now there is like a chance that Bungie will make that Oni sequel? http://www.bungie.net/Projects/Oni/default.aspx

You know... something above the "snowball in hell" and "1 in a million" level?

Re:Oni 2?

[mdarksbane]

They no longer own the IP. Although there's always a chance of them buying it back from Take Two (since it doesn't seem as though they're really caring that much about it).

Re:Oni 2?

[Creepy]

Bungie also teamed with another group of developers to create that one - it wasn't an in-house project. It wasn't very profitable and had a lot of cost-overruns. If anything, I'd expect to see a "Myth: The Fallen Lords" sequel or a new franchise.

The original founder are no longer with Microsoft, so who knows what direction it will take. Alex Seropian is at Wideload games, Jason Jones keeps a very low profile, but apparently is at Arena:Net (see Moby Games). Artist Colin Brent disappeared after Marathon, and that's about all I know of him. Strange that MobyGames is missing all the early Bungie titles (!Gnop, Operation: Desert Storm, and Minotaur: Labyrinth of Crete) - 2500 copies sold or not.

Re:Oni 2?

[Albigg]

My guess is that they will first start on Pimps at Sea

Re:Oni 2?

[mdarksbane]

Wow, I hadn't realized that Jones had left. I knew that Seropian took off after the release of Halo 2, but I thought that Jones was still there.

Makes me sad - he's always been one to stay out of the spotlight, but personally I'd put him up there with Carmack in terms of better minds in the industry, if not necessarily as influential.

Re:Oni 2?

[Creepy]

Jones still apparently is involved, but more for influencing creative direction and not an active programmer or artist. I've read that he is given a "special thanks" in the credits of Halo 3 and he was a spokesperson when they split with Microsoft, so it's possible he'll be the head of the spun off studio.

Did any other British readers read this as...

[JustNiz]

Bungle is leaving Microsoft? I guess that only leaves Zippy....

Re:Did any other British readers read this as...

[ThirdPrize]

Yeah, but George is going to be replacing Bill when he leaves.

Re:Did any other British readers read this as...

[pandrijeczko]

You do realise that there are several hundred American Slashdotters reading your post and going "Huh?"

Maybe we should harness their colletive "HUH" energies and use it to put a toupee over the hole in the ozone layer...

...or something.

Re:Did any other British readers read this as...

[FatOAP]

oops, replying to undo fucked up mod.

Re:Did any other British readers read this as...

[mink]

You would be suprised at how many people got it just from seeing the humor vid.

I think it's time to sing the plucking song.

I like them.

[SanityInAnarchy]

I don't mean another game that's called Halo, and is set in exactly the same storyline.

More like one set in the same universe. It's my understanding that basically every shooter they've ever put out, including the Marathon games, is set in the same universe. Maybe even the shooter/rpg before that... what was it called?

But imagine being a Marathon fan leading up to the launch of the original Halo. Cortana actually sent out emails to various fan sites ahead of time, so people were analyzing all the ways in which her emails could be related to a sequel to Marathon... and then they got Halo, which was so completely different, yet in the same universe, with kind of the same theme.

I would love to see them do something like that again. Imagine something as much better than Halo as Halo was better than Marathon.

Re:I like them.

[Zeal17]

Before Marathon was Pathways into Darkness.

Re:I like them.

[KDR_11k]

I would love to see them do something like that again. Imagine something as much better than Halo as Halo was better than Marathon.

Many here would extrapolate that as Marathon -> Halo -> Daikatana.

Re:I like them.

[Anonymous Coward]

Imagine something as much better than Halo as Halo was better than Marathon.

So... Daikatana?

Re:I like them.

[Bobartig]

I want to see Oni II with 1) Non-impossible end-game content, and 2) multiplayer support.

Of course, the Oni franchise was transferred to G.O.D., and has henceforth disappeared off the face of the earth.

Re:I like them.

[CaptMonkeyDLuffy]

Set in the same universe? Not exactly. Their first shooter release was the Shooter/Adventure hybrid Pathways into Darkness. There were never any direct references to occurences in PiD in the Marathon series, but there are some common references (name of one alien race mentioned only in the pregame story in PiD also appears in Marathon, nature of another foreign entity in PiD is very similar to one mentioned in Marathon...). For all intents and purposes, there is nothing contradictory to state that they aren't the same universe, there are hints that they are, and if you dig deep in the "there's hidden meaning in all those terminal entries" aspect of the Marathon plot, there may be a strong tie between the main character in both... Then came Marathon. If one wanted to nitpick, due to the 'alternate reality hopping' involved in the last installment, technically Marathon itself doesn't entirely occur in one universe... Finally Halo. Long before the release, there were hints that it might be in the same universe('from game resident' messages that made reference to key aspects of Marathon and Halo, in particular linking Durandal and Cortana(the primary AI characters from both series respectively)). Then the details on the game came out. Time period and technology posessed by humans in Halo are completely out of whack with what the Marathon story and backstory would imply. Technology behind AI's is entirely different. Technology behind cyborgs is entirely different... Unless someone's going to completely rewrite one or the other, too many conflicts to simply merge into one. However, I will admit there is one slim wierd fan-wanky way to justify a connection despite that. Technically, the main character from Marathon would have been able to 'escape the inevitable closure of the universe' If the Halo-verse is a universe that comes into being after the Marathon-verse closes...

Re:I like them.

[SanityInAnarchy]

Time period and technology posessed by humans in Halo are completely out of whack with what the Marathon story and backstory would imply. Technology behind AI's is entirely different. Technology behind cyborgs is entirely different...

Well, let's see...

Time period is different. But it's my understanding that in Halo, cyborgs have generally been outlawed, which is why they did the Spartan program -- they can't _quite_ make him cyborg, but they can genetically engineer him and give him all kinds of toys.

AI is also not incredibly different. You could easily claim that Cortana is deliberately limited, and certainly the AI (what was her name? Leela?) that you start out dealing with is much more like Cortana. At least until Cortana is left alone in that Covenant capital city...

And then Halo 2 ends, so I'd better go play Halo 3 and get the complete picture.

Re:I like them.

[CaptMonkeyDLuffy]

I think the best example I can give is with details like when humanity acquired FTL capabilities, and its first significant encounter with an alien race.
In the Marathon universe, the titular ship was sent out in the year X. The ship was a moon of mars converted into essentially sub-light speed travelling generational extra solar system type vessel. There was no FTL technology available at this time available to humans. Following the events of the first Marathon game, FTL technology is delivered to earth, which is made aware of the pfhor(think of them as the Marathon covenant equivalent... except instead of the religious fanatic bent to align a collection of alien types together, they're a race that has scavenged technology from no longer present advanced races, and enslave other races to work for them...). This is the first major alien encounter in this universe.
In the Halo universe, humanity started colonization by means of FTL technology in year Y. Year Y happens to be either before year X, or during the long time between the Marathon being launched and getting to Tau Ceti, I forgot which but it was definitely one of those options. But either way, the FTL tech was explicitly NOT gifted to humanity the way it was in Marathon, and it occured centuries earlier. On top of that, the Covenant are the first major alien encounter for humanity in this universe.
Giant battles for your species survival or freedom against antagonistic aliens seem a large detail to forget about in the history books.

Re:I like them.

[Stormwatch]

Before Marathon was Pathways into Darkness.

A classic. I'd love to play a modern version of that one.

Re:I like them.

[Kadin2048]

PiD was the first really 'dark' thematic shooter I played; I scared the bejeezus out of myself for about a week playing that thing. Compared to Doom, which I think came out around the same time and was all the rage with my PC-using friends, PiD was way ahead on things like actually having a coherent plot, and requiring a little thought to get past some parts.

I'm not sure whether it's ever been officially resolved as to whether Pathways is part of the Marathon/Halo canon, but it could certainly be integrated as a far-off prequel. It's certainly ripe for a remake that would firm up its relationship to the other games. (As are the Marathon games, really; spruced up onto a modern engine they'd probably work well.)

Re:I like them.

[CaptMonkeyDLuffy]

There's more support for Pathways and Marathon being from the same continuity than Marathon/Halo. The most solid evidence to proce the point is the existence of an advanced alien race known as the Jjaro in both, with a minor bit of support that the 'dreaming entity' from PiD strongly resembles the W'rkncacnter from Marathon.

As for Marathon and Halo... there are lots of historical inconsistencies between the two that would prevent them from beomg in the same universe(unless you go with the 'main character from Marathon escapes universe at its closure, new universe comes into being and is the Halo universe' route, which is REALLY stretching things).

Updated PiD and Marathon would be great, but considering significant portions of the core staff from their creation are no longer with Bungie. And Marathon might not translate well into modern FPS engine technology. The nature of the text terminals as means of providing the story allowed for a lot of what made Marathon what it was... modern cut scenes and voice overs would be really lacking in comparison, but I don't think you could get away with an FPS that was THAT text filled these days.

Re:I like them.

[Kelbear]

*Spoilers ahead*

Human history in halo diverges into two sets. The "Forerunners" who built the Halos were also human, and this discovery is why Halo 3 takes place on Earth which housed the controls underground. So two FTL discoveries and two first contacts are possible since apparently they'd managed to wipe out historical record between the two when the Forerunners apparently toasted themselves with a Halo before getting inside a shield world like they'd planned.

*End spoilers*

So there may be other reasons why Halo wouldn't be compatible with Marathon, but the timeline and technology levels aren't necessary among them.

You can still play Myth online

[Anonymous Coward]

Hey, you can still play the Myth games online.

Re:You can still play Myth online

[Reapy]

Cool, thanks for the link! I might have to dust it off and play it again. Myth 1/2 had to be one of my favorite online games ever.

God, I remember running my ghols around harassing the crap out of people. Grabbing heads from fallen bad guys and chucking it at their soldiers and taunting them, then taking off as their whole line followed me across the map before they noticed, while my buddy came round with the main troops from the front.

Or desert between your ears. Great map! Two wights on either side of the bridge, check! 8 Dwarfies waiting behind the archers, CHECK. Taking out their archers with ghols! WIN! When they finally said f it and sent the hoards across the bridge, BIG BADA BOOM!!

Hell, even the FFA's were great, giant cluster fucks in the middle trying to win the king of the hill. Sometimes it would be fun to not even try for the game and just go kill off your buddy, or throw max thrall into the mix just to watch the carnage.

Oh man or the pounding as the trow came thumpping round the corner to start kicking the heads off your berserker's.

Wow, get off my lawn kids. Sorry for the trip down memory lane there. So uh, Bungie, get off halo, and make something new for us to roll around in, pllllleaaaaaaaseeeeeeee.

Re:You can still play Myth online

[uncledrax]

Memory lane for sure.. Good times :]

I played alot of SlugFest too back then.... unlike alot of people though, I didn't mind that much getting the middle and first punt.

Good article on Bungie

[bogie]

There is an interesting and surprisingly in depth article on Bungie and how they went about developing for Halo 3. They follow Bungie's development process and get into things like how Bungie solved different AI problems etc. Anyway when you have some free time, it's 6 pages long, hop over to http://www.wired.com/gaming/virtualworlds/magazine/15-09/ff_halo and give it a read. Btw I don't own an Xbox and never played Halo but I still found the article very interesting.

What about Halo 7?

[Ryukotsusei]

If they don't do Halo 7, then how will we have world peace?

Halo DS?

[Darktyco]

Does this mean that they are goign to release Halo DS?

should have seen this coming

[dannannan]

Just a few days ago Robert Scoble wrote about how Bungie was the one bright spot in the sea of Microsoft:

Microsoft needs a new story. If I were on the management team I'd be looking hard at the Bungie team, the folks who brought us Halo 3.

Bungie splitting off makes a lot of sense, but I doubt it is the start of a trend at Microsoft. I used to work at MGS, and with Bungie -- they had a longer leash than any other group that I knew about at the company, and they fought constantly to keep it that way.

Clearly what will happen

[Joe the Lesser]

Is that Bungie get as far away as Microsoft as they can without crashing the company, hold their own for a bit, but then come run rushing back towards Microsoft though never as close, and then they will distance themselves again but less severe, and so on and so forth.

So does this mean...

[ducomputergeek]

We can actually go out and buy legal copies of Halo for Mac now?

Re:So does this mean...

[hitmanWilly1337]

Heh, I'm still waiting for a Linux port, along with airborne pigs and demonic snowball fights.

Re:So does this mean...

[I'm Don Giovanni]

What do you mean? The Mac version of Halo was released years ago in 2003. What is preventing you from "legally buying" it? Was it discontinued for some reason?

Re:So does this mean...

[Blakey Rat]

It's been out for almost 4 years. What was stopping you from buying it legally before?

http://www.amazon.com/Macsoft-Halo-Mac/dp/B00006IQTH/ref=sr_1_12/002-9659279-2452860?ie=UTF8&s=videogames&qid=1191606663&sr=8-12

Of course, now it's so old that it's pretty much out of stock/discontinued everywhere.

Re:So does this mean...

[ducomputergeek]

Geesh, hate to reply to my own thread, but those who missed the story:

Linky: http://macslash.org/article.pl?sid=04/02/05/174217

For those who don't want to read AFA here is the short version: More copies of Halo for Mac have been pirated than sold. Mostly out of spite from mac fan boys for the fact that originally Halo was to be a Mac first title (some say Mac-only, but...) before Microsoft bought Bungie and had it developed as the "killer app". I generally assumed that enough of geekdom around here knew the story...

getting bungied ..

[rs232]

Is this what's known as getting bungied .. ?

So Bungie becomes like Polyphony

[I'm Don Giovanni]

Besides Shane Kim's statment of Bungie/MS continuing relationship quoted in the summary, the article also says:

Bungie studio head Harold Ryan described the move as "an exciting evolution" of the relationship with Microsoft.
"We will continue to develop with our primary focus on Microsoft's platforms; we greatly value our mutually prosperous relationship with our publisher, Microsoft Game Studios, and we look forward to continuing that affiliation through Halo and beyond," he said.

The article also says Microsoft will "will retain an equity interest" in Bungie.

This tells me that Bungie simply goes from Microsoft 1st party to Microsoft 2nd party, like Sony's relationship with Polyphony (makers of GT).

Doesn't MS get it?

[pchoppin]

Gaming is their true forté. Screw the whole Windows product line. MS should stick with the gaming arena.

Apparently, Bungie gets it...

no ..

[rs232]

"Is that Bungie get as far away as Microsoft as they can without crashing the company, hold their own for a bit, but then come run rushing back"

No, what will happen is that Bungie will become a niche player on Windows ..

Clearly what will happen (Score:2)

Re:no ..

[Anonymous Coward]

whoosh

get it, bungie, back and forth from microsoft like they're on a big elastic band... bungie? get it?

sheesh

Re:no ..

[hidannik]

Whoosh!

That's the sound of the gp's point riding a Banshee over your head.

Bungie splitting makes a lot of sense ?

[rs232]

"Bungie splitting off makes a lot of sense"

How does losing control of Halo make a lot of sense?

Re:Bungie splitting makes a lot of sense ?

[dannannan]

If you want to make games without a manager constantly looking over your shoulder telling you what your game should be like, then it makes a lot of sense.

Bungie relinquished control of Halo years ago when Microsoft bought them. While at MGS, they had to fight constantly for whatever control of Halo they could get. Keep in mind, Halo is a good series, but having Halos and Master Chiefs in your game isn't what makes it great. Just look at single-player Halo 2. Freedom to be creative -- to break all the rules and make something new, unexpected, and fun -- is where great games come from. You have to create the right conditions for that to happen, and that's what Bungie is doing by increasing their independence.

Myth IV?

[Fearan]

Anyone remember Myth I,II,III? Now that was a fun series! A giant battlefield with zombies and other cool dudes to blow up with dwarfs. It'd be awesome if there was ever another game in this series.

Apart from the Total War series, are there any other similar games to the old Myth?

Re:Myth IV?

[pizzach]

I believe the Myth Property was sold to another company. Take2/Mumbo Jumbo developed and published Myth 3 and I can't see why they won't be the ones to continue the series if they see fit.

Re:Myth IV?

[jdigriz]

Hell yeah, I'd love a Myth 4 with modern graphics. Myth 3 wasn't so good, but then again it wasn't made by Bungie.

Way back

[setrops]

I remember way back reading Blues news and loonyboi had this new game from Bungie, how great it was going to be and it was comming out on PC next year. Well next year came, Microsoft baught Bungie and it became an X-Box only title.

I was so dissapointed, I don;t play console games.

I think it finally came out on the PC 1 1/2 year later but by that time my interest in the game was gone.

And I think this is what Bungie is seeing now. Yes they are probably making money under Microsoft ownership, but are also probably losing millions due to platform restrictions. who know i might buy Halo4.

Re:Way back

[FinchWorld]

I remember way back reading Blues news and loonyboi had this new game from Bungie, how great it was going to be and it was comming out on PC next year.

Then you are mistaken, Halo was orginally meant for the Mac, though it may have been released for the PC at a later date like Marathon 2.

Re:Way back

[setrops]

Previous to microsoft acquiring Bungie.

http://www.bluesnews.com/cgi-bin/board.pl?action=postmessage&boardid=1&id=0&threadid=3840

Halo Announced [July 21, 1999, 10:59 am ET] - Viewing Comments
loonyboi just called in from MacWorld (where he's "on assignment"), with word that Bungie has finally announced their super-secret upcoming project, Halo at Steve Jobs' keynote address. The official Halo website has the first tidbits on the game, which is being developed for simultaneous release for both Windows and the Mac. loony got to see Halo earlier this year, and has been bursting at the seems to talk about it since then (but was under threat of death), because the demonstration (on a Mac) blew him away. The Press Release describes the game in detail, and I'll clip a piece below, as well as snagging the screenshot from the site, because it indeed, looks that cool. Here goes:

With no levels or breaks in gameplay, Halo gives players complete freedom of movement over open terrain. Vast outdoor vistas, complete with flora, fauna, weather and celestial events, are complemented with indoor environments of comparable detail and complexity. A universal physics model and persistent objects make events in this world utterly convincing. In this open environment, gameplay is not linear but unfolds in response to the player's actions.

After

http://www.bluesnews.com/cgi-bin/articles.pl?show=39

Halo 4?

[Anonymous Coward]

Hate to break it to you but Master Chief dies at the end of Halo 3 and peace breaks out.

The trilogy is done, there shouldn't be a Halo 4, they should make a new series.

Re:Halo 4?

[oberondarksoul]

Clearly somebody didn't keep watching after the credits...

Re:Halo 4?

[Arcturax]

Snape killed him. It's done.

*queues "Best Day Ever" music*

Yay!

[nerdacus]

Maybe they'll go back to making Mac games again. Won't hold my breath though.

I am baffled.

[lantastik]

Halo...the most average FPS on the planet and people are nutting in their pants to own a copy. The only thing I can figure is this is the first FPS most console players ever played so they don't know any better.

The game is average, the engine is below average and the story/campaign is garbage. Deus Ex Machina anyone?

Re:I am baffled.

[pandrijeczko]

I played Halo 1 on the PC, it was okay but not a patch on Half-Life 1 or 2 for single player or Unreal Tournament 2004 for multiplayer.

I thought the little chattering aliens running about turned Halo 1 into a Disney game for 10 year olds.

I played it once all the way through then sold my copy on eBay.

Vastly overrated game.

Re:I am baffled.

[Chrisje]

Typical that that'd get modded down flamebait.

I for one agree completely with what you're saying. Halo has never been anything like the CoD franchise, isn't as much fun as the original UT and has a story line that is surpassed by the original Doom. Furthermore, I think Valve is a lot more creative when it comes to multiplayer action. They've got their death matches with Half-Life 2, they've got their Counter strike, they've got their Day of Defeat CTF bit.... I don't understand what the BFD is about the Halo franchise.

And as far as the Xbox 360 goes, I've seen ghost recon on the 360, and that game is infinitely more interesting than Halo ever was. Granted, personally I am not that happy with my Wii on the FPS front, because I'm stuck playing CoD 3 on it, and on a normal non-HDTV it's just not as good as on a PC. Even though the sound roxx.

You can mod me all to hell, but I just don't get it. Specifically on /.: who gives a toss about Halo?

Re:I am baffled.

[Anonymous Coward]

Whoever they are, they sure do have moderation points to spend.

Re:I am baffled.

[Flagg0204]

You got modded as flaimbait but I actually agree with you. I remember playing Halo 1 when it first came out for the Xbox. About 5 minutes into playing I had a revelation: "I have seen this somewhere before......oh yeah Halflife" Halflife was a ground breaking FPS which integrated an awesome story with great action. Halo did the same but after playing HL (think back to when HL was first released) it just seemed repetitive. I think Console Systems brought games and specifically FPS games into a more socially acceptable light. Halo just happened to be one of the first console FPS games and thus was the first FPS a lot of console gamers were exposed to.

Marathon

[Anonymous Coward]

I'd like to see a title that officially bridges "Marathon" with "Halo." There's lots of speculation that the two universes are the same, but never official word from Bungie. That'd be cool.

Finally

[macdaddy]

Praise Kevin Bacon! I was very pissed when Bungie sold out to MS. Bungie used to make great products, especially for the make. Their graphics were unrivaled in their day and for many years afterwards even by Id. Since then I don't believe Bungie has made a single Mac title/port (not that I recall at least). I for one am quite glad Bungie made the split.

Re:Finally

[Arcturax]

It might be a bit early to celebrate just yet. MS still has some stake in them and honestly, the old Bungie we knew and loved from the early days of PC gaming is dead and gone. I mean look at their press release, they refer to the Halo story as "property" rather than a story or a universe. It's just property to be flogged for $, not the labor of love and storytelling that their older games were. That is why the story for Halo has not been very good in the followup games and by Halo 3, you basically have a first person scenerio tacked onto a multiplayer game (Halo 2 wasn't far off from that either).

So yeah, Bungie is pretty badly infected by the taint of M$ and it may never recover it's old glory even after this split. I remember Jason Jones writing about how it was going to be so awesome because they would have all the resources of Microsoft. This was back in the late 90's. And they did what with all of that? Produced one big long game sold as three parts. I think he meant well when he made the decision (I don't know the man, but I can only guess), but the reality is that Bungie was just something MS wanted to pump out a popular game for their Xbox systems and then flog the money horse until it was dead.

Who knows, they might resurrect their old glory, the creativity that brought us Marathon and Myth and the original Halo. But it will take some time to break the final shackles MS has on them and remove the attitudes of money over creativity that has crippled a once great gaming company. It might happen.

Re:Finally

[LACMA]

How would they be able to make an Oni 2? IIRC, at the end of the game everyone on Earth is dead except for Konoko, because the chrysalis protects her from the now-poisonous atmosphere. That'd be one lonely world in a sequel.

Re:Finally

[Scudsucker]

Easy. Do a remake a la Doom 3. And this time leave @#$!@#$!@#$ multiplayer in, assholes.

Who will make Halo 4?

[falcon5768]

No one.... it has been said time and again, Halo was a TRILOGY. Just like Marathon ended at game 3 and Bungie wouldn't budge on that, so will Halo and thats a GOOD THING. Id rather 3 good games, than 3 good games and loads of crappy sequels to cash in and unlike Mario or Zelda or others where they all remake themselves in some way, there is only so much you can do with a FPS at this point before it stops being a FPS.

Re:Who will make Halo 4?

[Arcturax]

Actually Marathon didn't end at game three. The official story ended at game two, three was just a bunch of tech demos showing you how to make your own Marathon games. It continued in the hands of the users because they gave you their tools for making the levels. You probably won't ever see any official tools release that will let people make stories for the Halo universe even if they have to be free the way Bungie laid out the rules for Marathon mods. I cannot see Microsoft ever allowing it as it's too radical a concept for that company.

I'm still amazed that Rooster Teeth productions gets away with selling DVD's of Red Vs Blue. I'm surprised as hell MS hasn't come down with the legal hammer claiming ownership of the textures and whatnot and demanding they turn over all rights and revenue. Maybe Bungie's people stayed their hand, but I doubt it will be held back much longer now. We'll have to wait and see.

Re:Who will make Halo 4?

[Osty]

I'm still amazed that Rooster Teeth productions gets away with selling DVD's of Red Vs Blue. I'm surprised as hell MS hasn't come down with the legal hammer claiming ownership of the textures and whatnot and demanding they turn over all rights and revenue. Maybe Bungie's people stayed their hand, but I doubt it will be held back much longer now. We'll have to wait and see.

Rooster Teeth "gets away with selling DVDs" because they went to Microsoft and struck a deal. It didn't hurt that they had Bungie backing them up, but they did it the right way. If they had just started selling DVDs without first talking to Bungie and Microsoft, the ban hammer and legal hammer would've fallen fast and hard, and Bungie would've been the ones swinging.

Re:Who will make Halo 4?

[Arcturax]

That certainly explains it. Wonder what MS gets as a cut for allowing this?

Halo Wars = Halo 4?

[Nitroadict]

Why is suddenly everyone crapping their pants about if there will be a Halo 4 when there already is a 4th Halo game coming out in the form of Halo Wars ? From what I know about Halo 3, the game is some type of prelude or beginning of some epic battle...then you have a game called Halo Wars coming along, which will be more of an RPG in the vein of MMORPG's rather than a shooter like the first 3 games have been.

Okay, so Halo Wars is being developed by Ensemble Studios, not Bungie, but seriously, this will be more or less the 4th Halo game, and hopefully Bungie moves on to make new games.

Although, personally, I wouldn't mind them back treading a bit and remaking Marathon before officially or un-offically closing the door on development for Halo games. :D

Re:Halo Wars = Halo 4?

[Osty]

From what I know about Halo 3, the game is some type of prelude or beginning of some epic battle...then you have a game called Halo Wars coming along, which will be more of an RPG in the vein of MMORPG's rather than a shooter like the first 3 games have been.

What? Halo Wars will be a straight-up RTS, like Age of Empires (hey, it is Ensemble making it). It's not "Halo 4", because it's not following the Chief/Cortana/Arbiter/Flood storyline that was finished in Halo 4. Also, as I understand it, Halo Wars is supposed to be a prequel of sorts to Halo 1, being set earlier in the Human/Covenant war than Halo 1 itself. If there is a "Halo 4", it would have to be a new Chief/Cortana/Arbiter storyline, since Halo 3 closed up all of the hanging threads from the first trilogy.

Although, personally, I wouldn't mind them back treading a bit and remaking Marathon before officially or un-offically closing the door on development for Halo games. :D

I'd rather see Bungie make some new properties. Marathon still holds up decently well using Aleph One, and Marathon 2: Durandal has made it to XBLA. I'd love to see Marathon 1 and 3 on XBLA as well, but I don't really care for a remake of the original Marathon games in the Halo engine. It would be nice to see another trilogy set in the Marathon universe, but it would also be nice to see a second Chief/Cortana trilogy (not necessarily called Halo, as it wouldn't have to revolve around the Halo installations).

Myth! Multiple platforms... something NEW

[hellfire]

I'm not into FPS but I hear halo is pretty good. Marathon was good back in it's day. Another title you may not have known about was the Myth series. Hot damn I loved that series. It's classified under strategy games but it's really an early foray into tactical unit management and it was brilliant. I miss it so. It was one game that I wasn't good at, never once won an online game I played. And yet I couldn't get enough multiplayer. All that 3D work and physics modelling you see in WC3 and SC2... Myth pioneered that in "strategy" games ten years ago.

I want to see new Mac games from Bungie again. I liked playing all their games, even FPS. Doom and quake never interested me. Marathon... there was just something about Marathon. The best companies invest in the mythos and storyline of their game. Bungie does that so well. When Bungie was purchased by Microsoft and halo taken to xbox, I lost all interest.

And hell, it's about time they just came up with something completely new.

All I can say is WOOHOOO!!!!

[Fallen Kell]

I have been a Bungie fan for a LONG time (since Marathon), and loved them back then. And loved them even more for games like Myth: The Fallen Lords series. But ever since MS bought them and brought them into their entertainment division, all other series other then Halo have been simply written off and no new work done on new franchises other then Halo. Basically their A team was told, Halo, Halo 2, Halo 3, Halo 4, etc., etc. If you finish one of them start working on the next....

Sorry, but no.

[Viewsonic]

I've been a FPS fanatic, and my favorite to date is still the Doom series. In particular the second. I grew up on Quake swinging from grappling hooks. I've played through Duke and beat aliens in Half-Life 1 and 2. The Halo series is pretty unique in the fact the atmosphere is pretty damn good. Next to Terminator: Future Shock and Skynet I can't think of another FPS that had such a great atmosphere. While I didn't care much for the second game, the third seemed to do EVERYTHING fantastic. Everything was finely tuned, the entire home theater experience was second to none. Sitting on a couch and having your 5.1 surround sub shaking the entire building to the ground while you "finished the fight" was nothing short of pure awesome.

I'm sorry you have a grudge against Halo, or maybe even "non-mouse and keyboard" games, but this series is beyond "average", and in fact it's pretty dang good. The reviews and sales show the obvious, a lot of other people agree.

Re:Sorry, but no.

[Blakey Rat]

It's not against "Halo" persay, it's against "popular things." This is Slashdot, remember... anything that everybody uses/likes (Windows, CDs, movies) is just total crap designed to placate the "sheeple." You can't be a proper Slashdot hipster and like Halo at the same time, it just doesn't work.

Anyway, I agree with you. The cut-scenes in Halo 2 were simply amazing, IMO. (I love Arbiter, he kind of reminded me of Speaker from Niven's Ringworld series.) And the ending was the kind of thing that psychs you up, makes you get up out of your chair and cheer at the TV. I was a bit disappointed at Halo 3, which I don't think captured that same feeling as Halo 2, but it's still worth the hype, IMO. And I was disappointed that Arbiter stopped calling Master Chief "demon" in Halo 3... but oh well.

Re:Sorry, but no.

[lantastik]

we're all entitled to our opinions and mine is that it is completely average. As far as gameplay goes, Gears of War destroys it. The only thing Halo has going for it is the amazing plethora of multiplayer options. It's unfortunately not enough to save the sloppy gameplay and poorly designed engine.

Re:Sorry, but no.

[Viewsonic]

Perhaps you could give a reason why you think the engine is poorly designed, and why the gameplay is sloppy? The game controls fantastic for having a controller. I don't think I found a glitch in Halo 3 yet, other than being stuck in a hole that the level makers may or may not have done on purpose. The frame rate is solid, the weapons and vehicles are all solid and pretty dang balanced for having so many. Four player co-op can't be beat. You mention Gears of War. While that game was definitely good, I don't think it came close to Halo 3. The two person co-op was fun, but the game was really short. It also wasn't very replayable. I'm not sure why, but I've beaten Halo 3 twice already and I would have no problem playing through again with a few more people. It just doesn't seem mundane. Gears multiplayer was also pretty limited and didn't hold my attention for more than a week.

Re:Sorry, but no.

[Osty]

Anyway, I agree with you. The cut-scenes in Halo 2 were simply amazing, IMO. (I love Arbiter, he kind of reminded me of Speaker from Niven's Ringworld series.) And the ending was the kind of thing that psychs you up, makes you get up out of your chair and cheer at the TV. I was a bit disappointed at Halo 3, which I don't think captured that same feeling as Halo 2, but it's still worth the hype, IMO

Halo 3 wasn't supposed to have the same feeling as Halo 2. Think of it this way. Halo 1 is like A New Hope: it's a mostly-stand-alone story that can work on its own in case the planned sequels don't get made, but it also has hints at something more. Halo 2 is like Empire Strikes Back: the fact that the fully trilogy will be made is a given, there's a good story but it doesn't really stand alone, and it ends on a cliffhanger. Halo 3 is Return of the Jedi: it ties up open threads and finishes off the story. It can be a little cheesy, and there are some minor twists (is the Chief really dead at the end? Make sure you watch after the credits), and it doesn't hold up to the second item in the trilogy, but it's still very good on its own.

And I was disappointed that Arbiter stopped calling Master Chief "demon" in Halo 3... but oh well.

Makes sense. The Arbiter had thrown off the shackles of the Prophet's religion, and has come to see that the Chief is just a man (albeit a genetically modified, cybernetically enhanced man) and not some religious demon. I liked the Arbiter's faith in the Chief, for example at the end when he says something along the lines of "If only it was that easy", like he said when you first meet up with him in the first level, referring to the seeming inability for anything to kill the Chief. The world assumes the Chief is dead, but the Arbiter respects him enough that he won't believe the Chief is dead until he can see the cold, dead body himself.

Re:Sorry, but no.

[ShadowsHawk]

I think it really is a matter of perspective. I am primarily a PC gamer and was disappointed with the Xbox controls when I initially started playing. My friends raved like it was the end all of console shooters. In my opinion, the thing that sold Halo was the same thing that sold Golden eye. Good controls (for a console) and the opportunity to laugh at your friend's face when you pull of an amazing kill. Other than that, I agree with the other posters; highly over-rated.

Re:Sorry, but no.

[Blakey Rat]

Makes sense. The Arbiter had thrown off the shackles of the Prophet's religion, and has come to see that the Chief is just a man (albeit a genetically modified, cybernetically enhanced man) and not some religious demon. I liked the Arbiter's faith in the Chief, for example at the end when he says something along the lines of "If only it was that easy", like he said when you first meet up with him in the first level, referring to the seeming inability for anything to kill the Chief. The world assumes the Chief is dead, but the Arbiter respects him enough that he won't believe the Chief is dead until he can see the cold, dead body himself.

I just thought it sounded cool in Arbiter's voice. ;)

Good precedent

[Avatar8]

Maybe we'll start seeing all that great talent EA assimilated start struggling and freeing itself back to independent, free-thinking studios that can create real products with value.

MTV And Halo = Protecting Conformity

[pandrijeczko]

MTV is a music channel that has never done anything apart from pushing the most bland and boring parts of the music scene over-and-over again into the minds of teenagers who are so desperate to conform in order to avoid standing out in a crowd where they would be ridiculed by their peers.

Halo is also very "safe". It's popular brand that is currently very cool to say you like - that's the main reason for it's popularity.

MTV and Halo go very well hand-in-hand together - watch MTV and you don't have to get off your spotty teenage backside and go find more interesting music. Play Halo, and you don't have to bother playing far better games like Half-Life or Unreal Tournament.

Marathon, Myth and Bungie

[zhrike]

I absolutely loved Bungie's pre-microsoft games. Now, I am not commenting on Halo, 'cause I haven't played it, and the entire franchise has received nothing but great
ratings are reviews, but I well remember back in the day going to Bungie's online store, and finding a good bye letter from one of the original members who decried the
buyout and called MS the Borg. I also remember seeing Halo previews way back then, the release of which seemed imminent, but the game was subsequently held back for years to be the XBOX' flagship release.

I, for one, would love to see Bungie get back out from under MS, and develop some more original titles, as was their strength.

Myth: The Fallen Lords, and Myth II: Soulbighter remain two of my all-time faves, and are still playable today.

Re:Marathon, Myth and Bungie

[Anamanaman]

I dunno, I think in retrospect it was a good decision (for Bungie's benefit) to marry itself to Microsoft and Xbox. Had they released Halo on PC/Mac and not as an Xbox exclusive they probably wouldn't have even 1/4 of the hype they have today. Halo 1-3 are universally recongized as incredible games, really on the level of Half-Life but sometimes it's better to start out as a big fish in a small pond (initial xbox launch). They were able to define the entire xbox platform and benefit from that. If they were just another Half-Life, I doubt they would have got the mass attention and fan devotion they currently respect.

Still, I was pissed at the time Bungie "sold out" and am still bitter about their complete betrayal of PC/Mac gaming. They could have at least given us a port for god sakes within 6 months of console release... like GTA. Hopefully their distance from Microsoft enables them to support their initial user base and bring back some fans who have abandoned them (like me).

Can someone please explain Halo?

[anethema]

Let me preface with the fact that this is NOT a flame on Halo.

I got Halo for the PC when it was still in a bit of hype, and was fairly disappointed. The story seemed no where near as good as half-life, the game play not as good as counterstrike or unreal tournament, etc. Graphics just on par with any FPS out at the time..

I'm not saying it is a bad game, just that I cant see what makes it good. Is that on console the coop mode is what makes it good? Or is it (my theory) that FPS isn't that good of a game type on console and the console people just don't know what they are missing w/ a game of the year type FPS?

Anyone?

Re:Can someone please explain Halo?

[lantastik]

You and I are on the exact same page. The game is completely average. There is nothing that makes it stand out aside from the the unprecedented multiplayer options. However, this is only unprecedented on the console. The PC has had it for years, and mod community destroys anything that could ever exist on the console. I am not a console hater either. I own PS2, PS3, Xbox, and Xbox 360. I own H1-H3, and even on the console, I consider Gear of War a superior shooter.

Halo is just average.

Re:Can someone please explain Halo?

[Osty]

I'm not saying it is a bad game, just that I cant see what makes it good. Is that on console the coop mode is what makes it good? Or is it (my theory) that FPS isn't that good of a game type on console and the console people just don't know what they are missing w/ a game of the year type FPS?

Recycling content. Somebody asks this exact same question every time there's a Halo or Bungie article.

Re:Can someone please explain Halo?

[Sqweegee]

I have to go with the third option... most people I've talked to who raved about halo 1 had never played anything but solitaire and mine sweeper on a PC, the hype continued from there.

I remember one guy telling me how incredible it was to be able to look in any direction, even up and down! I had to break it to him that I'd been doing that on a PC for years, one of the earliest games I remembered having that feature was Ultima Underworld from the early 90's.

Re:Can someone please explain Halo?

[Tofystedeth]

First FPS I ever played was Wolfenstein. I also played Doom, Heretic, Hexen and quite a few others. I didn't really get into them. I played a lot of Perfect Dark and some Goldeneye on the 64 though (where, by the way, you could look up and down) and really enjoyed them.(PD at least. I don't know why Goldeneye wasn't as fun for me. They're pretty much the same game) My freshman and sophomore year of College I played a hell of a lot of UT:GOTY and 2K3 with my roommates, and had a blast. I hated Halo and the XBox on principle. It wasn't until my junior year when I actually played Halo and Halo 2 that I found them to be one hell of a lot of fun.

Re:Can someone please explain Halo?

[anethema]

Thanks Osty. I was not recycling, I just hadn't seen or posted on the topic, so thought to ask.

Other than the well implemented vehicles point(Tribes 2? not sure if it came out before or after Halo), many of the other ones seem to be minor points of game mechanics. Many of the points listed were implemented in other (very popular) games.

Take counterstrike for example. There were simple throw grenade button mods which I'm sure most people used. It was a game that delivered a wonderful online experience. Unreal tournament was not the same type of game but also had many different game types and was one of the most fun online games out there.. Tribes had many of the boons you say long before halo.

The story was ok, but a masterful story, I guess I just didn't see it. Perhaps try half life or, newer, bioshock. Or even the theif games or system shock.

I also agree on the couch point, but I've been playing in 5.1 surround for years on the computer. And any gain added from the couch seems to be taken away by the fact that you're playing with a joystick rather than a single derivative device like a mouse.

Even with all this, it still seems halo is a mediocre game in comparison with other offerings, but since it was the best thing going on the console, it has a lot of hype behind it.

I hear what you're saying, different strokes for different folks, but even compared to other current console games, halo 3 seems dated and mid-level. (gears of war, et al)

I kind of got more into this than I wanted to I think. Basically it comes down to, I played halo on the computer, and it did not seem to stack up to other games on the computer in any meaningful way. Is it different in the console arena? That is basically what I'm asking.

Re:Can someone please explain Halo?

[rufo]

Just to give you some background, I have a very PC-shooter centric gaming history (my heavily-played game of choice for about three years was Quake 3, but I also played not-insignificant amounts of Marathon/Marathon 2/Quake 2/HL/HL2/Counter-Strike/Counter-Strike Source/Tribes 2/NOLF/NOLF2/UT/UT:2004/Far Cry/Battlefield 1942 - I'm sure there are hordes of games I'm forgetting also).

That being said, I'd put Halo 3 on the level of a Half-Life 2 or UT 2004 in terms of quality. I would agree that it's dramatically overmarketed compared to other notable games of its genre on the PC, but I think that's understandable given how well Halo 1 did on Xbox and what it means to Microsoft's console plans. I would also say that Halo is uniquely tuned for console play - not just from the basics of input not sucking, but I think every aspect of gameplay, level design and AI is designed for the experience of playing a console game - and when you move that over to the PC, the whole thing just feels slightly fucked up. While it's (obviously) not great for a PC shooter, I don't think that makes Halo any worse of a game.

Also, keep in mind Halo (and Halo 2) for PC came out over two years after the original Xbox game had come out... anything remotely impressive about them had long since been copied in other games.

Personally, I'll take Halo 3 over Counter-Strike or even UT any day of the week; I truly enjoy Halo 3 multiplayer, although I do wish sometimes there was a bit more ability to easily find custom games. If it ain't for you, that's fine, but I will assure you there is actually something to it. :-)

Re:Can someone please explain Halo?

[Osty]

Take counterstrike for example. There were simple throw grenade button mods which I'm sure most people used. It was a game that delivered a wonderful online experience. Unreal tournament was not the same type of game but also had many different game types and was one of the most fun online games out there.. Tribes had many of the boons you say long before halo.

As I mentioned in the original post, TF1 did grenades as secondary weapons well before Halo or Counter-Strike. The thing about Halo's grenades was that they "felt" right. Since I never really got into Counter-Strike (can't stand the "die 10 seconds into the game and then wait 10 minutes for the match to finish" gameplay), but the TF1 grenades always felt a little weird. Maybe it was just the (lack of) physics in the Quake 1 engine. Regardless, while Halo wasn't the first to do grenades as a separate button, it was the first one to really get it right.

For the rest, Halo is more than just a sum of its parts. Tribes may have done vehicles earlier, but it didn't have a single player mode. Half-Life may have story-driven-FPS earlier (and really Bungie pioneered that with Marathon), but it was missing the other components that Halo had (vehicles and grenades, for example). It's easy to take all of the bits that make Halo good and claim that this game or that game did them first. What you're missing is that those games hadn't put those elements together at all, or at least not as well as Bungie did.

For example, Halo's recharging shields + limited weapon slots + story made for some interesting choices. Do you take a sniper rifle with you and kill your enemies at long range, or shotgun and kill them at short? Do you grab a rocket launcher and bet on the fact that your shields will keep you reasonably safe if you have to fire at short range? Do you take a medium-distance battle rifle and use cover to your advantage? If you go for the long guns, what do you do if the enemy flanks your position and brings the battle up close? If you go for short or medium guns, what do you do when you run into Jackal snipers pelting you from afar? With other games at the time, it didn't really matter since you had all of your guns with you. Pull out your sniper rifle to take out the enemy snipers, quickly swap to your rocket launcher to nail a squad of advancing enemies, and then flip to your shotgun to mop up the remaining enemies at close range. You couldn't do that in Halo, so you had to be constantly thinking about weapon selection and tactics.

The story was ok, but a masterful story, I guess I just didn't see it. Perhaps try half life or, newer, bioshock. Or even the theif games or system shock.

Bungie likes to build deep universes that are only shallowly revealed if you just play their games straight through. Only when you go back and really pay attention to what's going on in the story, read the novels, the comics, the short films (with halo 3), follow the ARGs (I Love Bees), etc do you really get a sense that there's much more to the story and the universe than what initially meets the eye. In contrast, Half-Life's story was pretty weak -- scientists accidentally summon aliens, the government shuts down Black Mesa, and Gordon get picked up by the G-man in the end. I do like the Looking Glass/Irrational games (System Shock 1/2, Thief 1/2/3, Bioshock), and they have awesome stories and atmosphere. I view Bungie as being on the same level as Irrational/Looking Glass, not Valve, when it comes to story-telling and world-building.

I also agree on the couch point, but I've been playing in 5.1 surround for years on the computer. And any gain added from the couch seems to be taken away by the fact that you're playing with a joystick rather than a single derivative device like a mouse.

For a twitch-shooter like UT, I whole-heartedly agree. For a slower, more tactical game like Halo, the gamepad actually works very well. A lot

Re:Can someone please explain Halo?

[anethema]

Ok your last paragraph was really the one that I wanted, dont care about comparing this part or that part, despite my post doing just that! haha

I basically just wanted to know what all the hype was about when, as I saw it, halo really had no step up on any PC FPS out at the time.

So you're saying its the fault of a outdated game because of the late port, and the fact that the port wasn't all that good anyways. That is fine since I've never played it on the console since the only use I ever had for an xbox was XMBC.

The only thing I really don't agree with is the story. I felt the story was shallow and non-immersive, but that is a total opinion thing and probably invalid to the discussion.

Thanks for the replies.

Re:Can someone please explain Halo?

[bevoblake]

I was particularly impressed with Halo's playability. It reminded me of some of Id's successes in generating games with really masterful playability and balance, only for a console. That's not an easy accomplishment for a control system that isn't as natural as keyboard/mouse are for FPS. Plus, their graphics were gorgeous when they first came out (a couple of years before the PC release).

I'd put it up there with Goldeneye for best console FPS experience. I'm not sure that it's any better than good PC FPS games (Half-life 2 is tough to beat).

MS = sux0rz

[Anonymous Coward]

MICROSOFT bought Bungee JUST so they would release HALO (the origonal) exclusivley for XBOX..

now they are are like 'ooh we are soo nice, that we let them do whatever they want'

sad fact is that MS _USED_ bungee to take off their xbox..

HALO was hyped to be THE BIGGEST PC game EVER, but it never made it to PC because fucking microsoft and their monopoly needed the title to launch their xbox. they continue to use the halo title to boost sales of their console..

mod that dude up

[Sloppy]

Damn, you're right! I must be thinking of .. uh .. Marathon tools?

Re:mod that dude up

[PayPaI]

Marathon infinity shipped with Forge (level editor) and Anvil (physics editor).

Re:Huh? -Myth??? Marathon???

[Anonymous Coward]

So what is Myth then? Or Marathon - perhaps one of the best early shooters made! Great physics made for really fun multiplayer games - spnkr splashes!!

Actually, image more than merchandising

[everphilski]

Actually, quite the opposite, Microsoft has been very careful about image with respect to Halo. They have had ideas from all over to tie into the game, from toy guns to lingerie link. But with such a huge player base it is better to be careful and conservative about image and keep the merchandising limited. Profit off of a few key items instead of being a merchandising whore.

Looks like they want to return to the Mac

[dracvl]

"But sure, now that we're branching of and controlling our destiny, that puts us in a position where we could put ourselves back on the [Mac] platform definitively again," said Jarrard." From this MacWorld article.

2nd party?

[BasilBrush]

1st party is the company that puts out the OS or the games console.
2nd party is the consumer that buys the OS or the games console.
3rd party is the company that makes the application. Unless they also happen to be the first party.

So bungie appears to be moving from 1st party to 3rd party. They aren't becoming 2nd party (except for where they too play the consumer in buying software and dev kits from MS.)

Maybe another Marathon sequal?

[Danathar]

I'd love to see them do another Marathon sequel with the Halo engine.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marathon_Trilogy

Finally

[MrCopilot]

Now we can all wait patiently for ONI_2 for the PC.

The only thought in my head is...

[CompMD]

FROG BLAST THE VENT CORE!!!

Re:The only thought in my head is...

[micromuncher]

It would only be too cool to see Myth or Marathon franchises revisited.

Shut It..

[jeko]

You shut your filthy mouth! Clamp that pie hole shut! Don't you know even breathing an idea that foul can make it come true?! Say things like that and tomorrow we could all wake up to find Stan Lee has signed over licenses to all the Marvel properties to Uwe ... Oh God ...

What it really means

[popisdead]

When MS bought Bungie it was so they could have a title to sell their xbox. That worked pretty well. Bungie always made awesome games and were more unique and styled than others of the same genre. What this gave Bungie was $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ and the ability that after they made the xbox for MS they could go back to doing what they love doing. Make really great games their way as an independent company. It was win/win/loose (Mac users got screwed on Halo).

But they still ripped them off indirectly

[Joce640k]

Imagine how many copies a Windows XP version would have sold...

Re:But they still ripped them off indirectly

[Skrapion]

Oh, they'll release a Windows version, but they need to wait until it's no longer the system-selling game for the 360.

I don't know if you can go home again....

[the eric conspiracy]

But there are very few game companies that I take seriously. Blizzard is one. Another is the Pre-Microsoft Bungie. While I didn't buy everything they made, everything they made was given a great deal of consideration. When MS bought Bungie it was a dark dark day for me.

Now that they are parting ways I will certainly watch what the do closely. If they can come up with PC games of the quality and innovation of Myth and Marathon I will certainly welcome them back into my home.

Halo, Yaaaawn

[drewsup]

I'm still waiting for Halo the Musical

Re:Halo, Yaaaawn

[enderjsv]

I'm still waiting for Call of Duty, book-on-tape. Cheers to cross-format publication.

Re:Halo, Yaaaawn

[revengebomber]

*vroom*
"THE RED ARMY KILLS HITLER!"
"Noooo! You bitch! You bitch!"

Let me guess

[Tony]

It's not against "Halo" persay (sic), it's against "popular things." This is Slashdot, remember... anything that everybody uses/likes (Windows, CDs, movies) is just total crap designed to placate the "sheeple."

Do you think Budweiser is a good beer?

Just because something is popular doesn't mean it isn't crap. For instance, MS-Windows fucking blows chunks, popularity notwithstanding. Most popular movies also suck. Not all, but most. I'm not sure where "CDs" come into it, as I haven't seen much ranting against CDs, unless you are talking about music, in which case, the most popular stuff generally *does* suck.

It doesn't suck because it's popular. It just sucks.

Now.

That said, Halo 3 looks like a decent FPS, with a good story line and decent gameplay. I played it for a couple of hours at a friend's house. (I don't own a 360, mostly because I refuse to support Microsoft in any way, and because I already have a Wii and a PS3.) I don't dislike Halo or Halo 3, though Halo 2 was most disappointing-- basically a retread of Halo, with some on-line play enhancements that made it almost as fun as Unreal Tournament.

But, c'mon. Disliking things just because they're popular? That doesn't happen as much as you seem to think. In general, people on /. dislike things because they suck, like MS-Windows, and popular entertainment.

Rare FASA

[mastershake_phd]

Now If Rare and FASA would leave Microsoft I'd be happy.

Re:Heh!

[d34thm0nk3y]

but the Covenant remain, thus Halo 2. In Halo 2, you fight the Covenant and more of the Flood. The game ends with neither the destruction of the Covenant nor the Flood, thus Halo 3. Halo 3 finishes the fight. Then what? Why even go on? The story is over.

No Halo 4? You mean, $170 Million in the FIRST day of sales isn't enough incentive to make Halo 4? I'm sorry, but there's way too much money wrapped up in that franchise. It's not going anywhere soon.

Re:Myth! Multiple platforms... something NEW

[Udo Schmitz]

I miss it so.

It didn't go away: http://projectmagma.net/downloads/

Hear, hear (NT)

[Malekin]

NT means Ninja Turtles.

Who cares about Halo?

[WWWWolf]

Seriously, who cares about Halo?

If Bungie shakes loose of Microsoft's cruel embrace, they should immediately buy the Myth IP back from Take2, conduct a throughout investigation of Where The Heck Myth II Loki Source Code Really Went (current myth2 devs don't seem to know what happened to it), and release an updated Linux binary. I mean, that ought to tell Microsoft a hint or two. =)

(Well, the Linux binary still works, but it seems I need to use the static binary and it appears to no longer do OpenGL or support gamma correction, and latter in particular makes the game highly annoying to play... Perhaps all it needs is a recompilation against the new versions of the libraries.)

Meh

[wild_berry]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marathon_Trilogy#Relation_to_Halo ...But what might Master Chief do in the mean time?

I'll bet they're working on something non-Halo now

[Anonymous Coward]

Jason Jones is the driving force behind Bungie's game ideas, from Pathways to Marathon to Myth to Halo. I'm fairly sure he is working on something new.

What has happened in the past at Bungie is that Jason leads creation and development for the lead title in a series and then works on the second title in the series. By the time the third title is under development he and a small team are at work on a completely new concept. This happened with Marathon and Myth, and you'll notice in the credits for Halo that he gets a 'thank you' but not a real credit.