Slashdot Mirror
Chinese Moon Photo Doctored, Crater Moved
mytrip writes "A controversy over last week's photo of the lunar surface, allegedly from China's lunar spacecraft Chang'e, appears to be resolved. It's real but it isn't. An expert says the photo's resolution shows that it is of recent origin. However, for some inexplicable reason, someone on Earth edited the photo and moved a crater to a different location. 'In the week since the picture was released amid much fanfare in Beijing, there have been widespread rumors that the photo was a fake, copied from an old picture collected by a U.S. space probe. The photo from China's Chang'e 1 orbiter is clearly a higher-resolution view, with sunlight streaming from the northwest rather than the north. The mission's chief scientist, Ouyang Ziyuan, told the Beijing News that a new crater had been spotted on the Chang'e imagery — a crater that didn't appear on the US imagery. Lakdawalla determined that the crater in question wasn't exactly new — instead, it appeared to be a crater that had been moved from one spot on the picture to another spot slightly south.'"
It's a space station.
They moved it to cover up the obelisk!
- None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
... who on earth would do such a thing?
"The need to build the internet comes from something inside us, something programmed... something we can't resist."
SPOILER: It was a poor stitch/blend job.
This guy's the limit!
probably a feng shui thing.
It's hard to believe that's how Micronians are made. Why don't we see it right now by having you both kiss one another?
They should have used the original movie set in New Mexico.
No folly is more costly than the folly of intolerant idealism. - Winston Churchill
Haven't cartographers been known to put little errors like this in on purpose so they can tell if someone has copied their map? Still seems pretty silly to do it with such scientific data, but we know that China has no qualms manipulating any other kind of information.
You know those crazy craters, getting legs and all. Happens all the time.
---- Teach Peace. It's Cheaper Than War.
Bad Astonomy readers are already up to date. It's an error in composition of the picture. Nothing less, nothing more.
Ahhh...the great dumpster continuum. Many a free computer will be found there. -- sowth (748135)
The main difference between Chinese and American moon missions: 30 minutes after the Chinese have explored the moon, they feel like exploring it again.
Proverbs 21:19
We had an agreement that they would not build anything in that crater, and yet it was lighted up like a christmas tree. It should have been a clean pass for the cameras dammit.
the chinese need to alter absolutely everything to conform to some ideological thingamjig, what this would be conforming to isn't real clear
so it's probably just a case of them doing it 'out of habit'
or maybe they were hiding Iran's nukes from our glorious leader's intelligence services
The US version looks way more realistic.
"A week in the lab saves an hour in the library"
FairTax baby!
It seems here that this is actually just a result of a vanilla screw-up.
"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity". Though instead of "stupidity" I'd substitute "error".
Engineering is the art of compromise.
http://xkcd.com/331/
Chuck Norris round-house kicked someones ass into the moon after the previous pictures were taken and created a new crater.
Couldn't the additional small crater seen in the Chinese photo be from an asteroid collision that occurred after the Clementine picture was taken?
Yep, that is exactly what happened. The asteroid hit a rectangle of terrain from another spot in the old photograph and blasted it up in the air.... well of course the moon has no air but you know what I mean... and this rectangle of terrain landed intact at the new location. Quite simple and obvious really.
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- - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
As per the TFA, a mistake was made stitching together 19 separate photographs to produce image of a large area of the moon that the probe could not have captured in one shot. Since each picture is taken at slightly different angle and distance from the surface, some retouching is unavoidable. Otherwise some craters will look like a weird set of arcs with different radius rather than circles. Such stretching got to slightly move some depicted object from their exact position. In fact, it is not possible to produce a flat picture of a 3D object without distortions. Just compare the size and shape of Alaska on your globe as compared to your map.
I would assume that you can request the original mission data for serious research use instead of having to rely on newspaper clippings for science. If those images are also doctored, then we have a genuine controversy.
The original article says and suggests nothing about the photo being "doctored", it's simply a mistake that scientists make all the time. When can we expect a better moderated Slashdot or people who can read?
That was the initial explanation for the "new" feature, though as Bad Astronomy pointed out, since it's on the near side of the moon, the impact probably would have been observed. However, the actual article (unlike the misleading summary) states that it can be explained by a botched job stitching together the components of the mosaic.
The summary almost criminally neglects to include the reported reason for doing this, which is entirely legitimate:
Often, surface features that show up on two strips of data have to be manually corrected to produce the finished image, due to subtle changes in perspective.
"You know that there should have been seams in that image, and I just did not look for them carefully at the time," Lakdawalla told me today.
If you've ever viewed satellite imagery, you'll recognize that the source images are not nice, ultrahigh resolution wide arc views, but instead low resolution wide arc views or high resolution narrow arc views. The 'recognizable' product that is released to a nontechnical public, such as the images used in Google Earth, are the result of post-processing including image registration, tone correction, etc. See this article on mosaicing multi-sensor images, for example.
Surprise. Some technician made a mistake. No cookie.
I realize that it goes against the general Slashdot commenting procedure, but read just a little before commenting on this one, please.
1. Two photos were poorly stitched together, repeating an image of a crater on the combined photo (the crater was photographed twice).
2. Chinese scientists miss the poor stitch job and proclaim they found a new crater.
3. Someone else takes a close look at this "discovery" and points out the error in the stitch job.
The crater wasn't intentionally added, it's a result of trying to align two photos, each taken from a different perspective in which the edges won't completely line up exactly.
http://xkcd.com/331/
..and what happens if they actually do find anything new? hello! Boy who cried wolf syndrome....
pffffft. that was the sound of their credability dying a death.
its sad really, somewhere in China there are some *very* capable engineers holding their heads in their hands.
That supports the article; it doesn't nullify it. In fact, Bad Astronomy gave them credit for figuring it out. (The summary could have explained this a little better, but what's new?)
Ben Hocking
Need a professional organizer?
Use of the chinese version of photoshop would be easy to test for, it has the lead-based paint bucket in place of the regular one...
...but the URL is a MS blog, and I banned myself from these years ago.
Shall we start with the 3D renditions of Humans not looking realistic when you give it more than a glance? Followed by the picture looking like previous shots of the moon.
Fly me to the moon Let me sing among those stars Let me see what spring is like On jupiter and mars
Open the image and Photoshop. Use the rubber stamp tool to remove some 'imaginary' seams. It is pretty easy to replicate the mistake and easy to understand how it could be made. The Chinese scientists should have verified their findings with the original un-stitched images before taking it to the press.
Could it be that the crater has been formed recently? Do things still hit the moon? Or has it been left untouched for a long time?
Fortunately it's too far for them to camp, and they havent figured out that there is no loot on the moon(save for the US mission).
Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
Just add a tariff to make up for the intentional depreciation.
I for one salute our Lunar Overlords and their quick-thinking relocation of their Lunar Attack Base when they saw the Chinese coming!
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
That's no Moon!
"For every right, an equal responsibility..."
something
the Chinese photoshopped-out the secret alien moonbase where all the UFO's come from.
Everyone knows NASA have been sucessfully editing out alien content from all their space imagery since the 60's.
Th CIA were afriad that the Chinese would finally blow the game by releasing unedited images of aliens on the moon to the public.
It was only when Bush threatened trade sanctions on the import of fortune cookies that the Chinese agreed to also edit all imagery.
with all the high powered telescopes, land and spaced based, why cant we point them at the moon and find the rover, flag, space boot prints, etc that was left over from the landing? its not like the moon has shifting sands or such (or does it? ;)
..the moon must be populated by little green men waving 'Free Tibet' placards..
How do you say "Relaxen und watchen das Blinkenkraters" in fake chinese?
Seppuku a.k.a. "Hari Kari" is a japanese tradition.
Maybe, but the sword will be billed on his family.
http://www.dieblinkenlights.com
As over the top as it sounds, I wonder if China will end up jailing (or even executing ) the worker that "doctored" (more likely misstitched) the strips. If this causes China enough national embarassment, that is.
The rogue crater has been recalled, and it didn't even contain lead!
Someone call Richard C. Hoagland!
"The fight for freedom has only just begun." - Geert Wilders
Which is why China is a mature fascist country as opposed to a communist country.
see http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=105001682
Snippet:
China is not, as is invariably said, in transition from communism to a freer and more democratic state. It is, instead, something we have never seen before: a maturing fascist regime. This new phenomenon is hard to recognize, both because Chinese leaders continue to call themselves communists, and also because the fascist states of the first half of the 20th century were young, governed by charismatic and revolutionary leaders, and destroyed in World War II. China is anything but young, and it is governed by a third or fourth generation of leaders who are anything but charismatic.
The current and past generations of Chinese leaders, from Deng Xiaoping to Jiang Zemin, may have scrapped the communist economic system, but they have not embraced capitalism. To be sure, the state no longer owns "the means of production." There is now private property, and, early last June, businessmen were formally admitted to the Communist Party. Profit is no longer taboo; it is actively encouraged at all levels of Chinese society, in public and private sectors. And the state is fully engaged in business enterprise, from the vast corporations owned wholly or in part by the armed forces, to others with top management and large shareholders simultaneously holding government jobs.
This is neither socialism nor capitalism; it is the infamous "third way" of the corporate state, first institutionalized in the 1920s by the founder of fascism, Benito Mussolini, then copied by other fascists in Europe.
I bet that some Tibetian monk is going to get beaten for this little screwup.
It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong.
While harakiri is a Japanese tradition in modern china the government just shoots you for the disgrace you cause the country.
It's actually "Hara-Kiri".
Let's say you take a editorial by David Brooks and paste it in without attribution.
It's called post-processing. You should go to the STSCI site and download some raw Hubble frames if you want to see some sources images that were "doctored" in the extreme to create those iconic images that adorn your calendars and desktops. The unprocessed frames are barely recognizable and contain huge amounts of visible noise from cosmic ray hits and all sorts of instrument artifacts.
The Chinese screwed up mosaicking their imagery. Big deal. Now that they know how far up their ass the scientific community will be looking, I am sure they will strive for more rigor. Their desire to be a contributing member of the scientific community appears genuine to me.
Edith Keeler Must Die
They moved the crater because the Falun Gong led exercises at the original location.
Ceci n'est pas une signature.
"Harakiri" and "hara-kiri" are each correct and incorrect at the same time, since the word is actually written in hiragana and kanji. In the end it's up to personal preference.
A fast cowboy since 2007
...That's because they didn't use the same original sound stage as NASA's faking of the moon, but soom cheap Chinese Z-movie knock-off. With Philipino actors.
...Yeah, but moving the crater a little bit further south made whole moon a lot more Feng Shui. Letting the Qi flow freely.
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
That's 'Hara Kiri'. Hari Kari is a misspelling of a certain late Cubs sportscaster.
That's not the moon, that's Niel Goldman's face!
*humble apologies*
Harry Caray: Hey! Let me ask, what's your favorite planet? Jeff Goldblum: Well... I, uh, don't have a favorite. I find them all fascinating. They're all part of a ...
Harry Caray: [interrupting] Mine's the Sun. Always has been. I like it because it's like, the King of Planets.
Jeff Goldblum: Well, actually Harry, it's not a planet. It's a star.
Harry Caray: Well, planet or star, when that thing burns out, we're all gonna be dead.
Jeff Goldblum: Well, that's true. But it's not gonna burn out for a very long time.
Harry Caray: [crossing fingers] I hope not. [pause] Hey! Doctor, have you ever seen an eclipse?
Jeff Goldblum: Uh, yeah, I've seen many.
Harry Caray: You know, if you stare at it head on, it'll burn your eyes out.
Jeff Goldblum: [breaking character and smiling] Well, it's best not to stare at the sun during an eclipse.
Harry Caray: But it's hard not to. I once took a pair of binoculars and stared at the sun for over an hour.
Harry Caray: Hey! Now Ken, We all know that the moon is not made of green cheese.
Jeff Goldblum: [cracking up] Yes, that's true, Harry.
Harry Caray: But what if it were made of barbecue spare ribs. Would you eat it then?
Jeff Goldblum: [confused] What?
Harry Caray: I know I would. Heck, I'd have seconds. Then polish it off with a tall, cool Budweiser.
Jeff Goldblum: [blank stare]
Harry Caray: I would do it.
Jeff Goldblum: [just playing along] Yeah.
Harry Caray: Would you?
Jeff Goldblum: [cracking up and looking at the audience] I'm confused.
Harry Caray: It's a simple question, doctor. Would ya eat the moon if it were made of ribs?
Jeff Goldblum: I, uh... I don't... I don't know how to answer that, Harry.
Harry Caray: It's not rocket science. Just say yes and we'll move on.
Harry Caray: Hey! What about this Mad Cow Disease?
Jeff Goldblum: [completely cracking up] What about it?
Harry Caray: Well, it was here for a while, then it went away. Your thoughts?
Jeff Goldblum: Yes, yes, it was in the news for a while and then it disappeared from the news.
Harry Caray: Good point! [pause] Gee, I hope I never get it. [long pause] Hey! What about this? If you could choose between being the top scientist in your field, or getting Mad Cow Disease, what would it be?
Jeff Goldblum: [pretending to think about it] Well, of course I would choose to be the top scientist in my field.
Harry Caray: [grasping his hand] Oh good! I was worried you would choose Mad Cow!
There are much more interesting photos to be found in the link to a Chinese news article below. There are 3-D lunar images to found on pages 2 and 3 of this report. http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2007-12/03/content_6294146.htm
> "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity". Though instead of "stupidity"
:)
> I'd substitute "error".
Sure way to be caught completely off guard by the eventual malice
I live by
"When widespread madness is the only official excuse, try looking for a better theory".
---- MISSING MISCELLANEOUS DATA SEGMENT --- [sigdash] trolololol
There have been known to be structures on the moon. Some craters are actually mined. The US has known since the early days of mapping. The back side (side that never faces us) has structures miles large.
Watch this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6QNzH4x1rY
http://xkcd.com/202/
"Slow down, Cowboy! It has been 3 years, 7 months and 26 days since you last successfully posted a comment."
It's quite obvious the American's doctored the original and the Chinese one is the accurate one.
Sam "to lazy to register" Look
that weren't put there by people.
That you tube video as been debunked.
However, lets look as some simple issues.
if NASA had evidence of structures, NASA would have been give all the money they could possible want. We would have a sustained presence on the moon and probably Mars and would have been used politically in the cold war.
There is no reason not to release the information.
Jeezs, how many senators would get more votes because the Companies in there state would get military contracts?
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Cost of an education? More than you can afford, it seems.
I don't know what is funnier, your response, or the fact that it has been modded insightful.
Why, yes you are a stupid dildo. We've been waiting for you to have that insight.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
okay you've proven that I'm a stupid dildo.
Sorry, I was just Karma Whoring teh Funny.
You jsut didn't RFTA, or didn't pay close attention.
And I'm double sorry you just got modded Insightful for your "okay you've proven that I'm a stupid dildo".
And yeah yeah yeah, I'm evil and I'm triple sorry for vulgar Karma Whoring teh Funny pointing out that you just got modded Insightful for "okay you've proven that I'm a stupid dildo".
And I'm quadruple sorry for qrotesquely Whoring teh Funny by copy/pasting "okay you've proven that I'm a stupid dildo" *four* times in this post.
I still can't believe someone slapped you with an "Insightful" on that. I'm on the verge of tears laughing. Did I mention I'm sorry?
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- - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
Speaking of photographs of craters, this is a neat one.
Development of the Mars global surveyor: $148 million
Launching it into space: $52.6 million
Getting it into orbit: $46.4 million
Seeing what the martins really think of us: Priceless.
Name: Mr. Anon E Mouse; SSN: 555-55-5555
Hari Kiri.. Only uninformed or deceived Westerners refer to "Hari Kari"
http://home.no.net/harakiri/
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http://www.parida.com/seppuku.html
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seppuku
"Vocabulary and Etymology
Seppuku is also known as hara-kiri (, "cutting the belly") and is written with the same kanji as seppuku but in reverse order with an okurigana. In Japanese, hara-kiri is a colloquialism, seppuku being the more formal term. Samurai (and modern adherents of bushido) would use seppuku, whereas ordinary Japanese (who in feudal times as well as today looked askance at the practice) would use hara-kiri. Hara-kiri is the more common term in English, where it is often mistakenly rendered "hari-kari.""
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http://www.answers.com/topic/seppuku-1
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(Probably the blame can be squarely laid at the feet of hollywood and any servicepersons and tourists from the West who "just didn't get it" or who just didn't give a damn...)
But, it is carried out with a "tanto":
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanto
If you want to see it performed in a film (quite messy in real life and somewhat in the film), see:
Brother,
Starring and produced/directed by Kitano Takeshi (of "Beat"...) and starring Omar Epps
http://www.combustiblecelluloid.com/2001/brother01.shtml
http://www.moviesunlimited.com/musite/product.asp?sku=D27123
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0222851/
http://global.yesasia.com/en/artIdxDept.aspx/section-videos/code-j/aid-30742/
and,
http://www.heroic-cinema.com/reviews/brother
"this film sure is one violent sonofabitch. If you're not down for that, then maybe you should check to see if you can get into a session of Harry Potter instead. Some of the harshest violence in it is self-inflicted (that brother thing again, but taken to an illogical and hella messy degree). And all of it is LOUD. Handguns are like cannons. Kicks are like wrecking balls. Punches are like car crashes. Car crashes are like - well, like car crashes. I think the punches are louder."
----
Anyway, I will always respect Kitano-san for how he ended the film, something rarely permitted in many western films. You have to see it for yourself...
Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
You see a lot of people complaining about editorial quality or whatever but usually I could care less. Lately it's been getting worse and worse with the summaries and I've been thinking about "slashdot" alternatives or what not. In reality though I've been to lazy to bother.
This article goes way over the line though. The misquoted/poorly worded summary is completely slanderous implying that the image is fake when the article it links to shows the exact opposite is true. In addition this isn't even one of the political free speech topics which are usually the target of such poor summaries. When even the science articles are getting this treatment I draw the line.
I doubt such a post will change anything but I figured it was worth it to raise the ire of other users if possible while I leave for greener pastures.
Yeah, and when you use the eyedropper to sample a color, you get a dose of some date rape drug....
Huh?
He gets karma points, who cares? *shrugs*
February 9th, 2009 8:55pm: Slashdot becomes self-aware.
Its a picture of arbitrary impact sites on a rock, distinguished from a universe of rocks only by the fact that this rock happens to be bigger than most of the rocks in convenient proximity to the only wet rock we've found yet. What is the scientific significance here?
Help poke pirates in the eyepatch, arr.
My China-made shirt has a similar problem: it has 2 neck holes and one sleeve.
Table-ized A.I.
Tell him we've located the Tetrahydral Structure.
I applaud your ability to link GWB with a Chinese moon photo story. Well done, sir.
An interesting historical note to use that actually supports your thesis here is what happened to the economies of Japan and Germany after World War II:
Think about it carefully here. Both countries not only lost major markets, but were nearly completely destroyed due to warfare, and they were defeated peoples as well, both economically, militarily, and emotionally in nearly every aspect. Japan was even nuked, for crying out loud, and Tokyo had been bombed so completely that a nuke really wouldn't have made that much of a difference.
Yet here we are in the 21st Century, and both of these countries are economic powerhouses (with Japan and Germany both in the top 10 largest and most powerful armies in the world today....look it up if you don't believe me!)
So how did Japan go from a country receiving economic aid from Ethiopia to what it is today after this mess? It sure wasn't technology, but rather a very skilled population of highly literate and well educated people that were able to pick up the pieces of their country not ruined from warfare and able to rebuild. In many ways and in the longer term way of thinking, WWII was one of the best things that Japan ever did. Losing the war helped them out in many more ways than had they succeeded in establishing a Japanese empire from Calcutta to Denver (somewhere between Denver and Omaha was supposed to be the border between Japan and Germany.... who knows?)
In some ways, Japan had it easier than Germany, as Japan was able to keep some of its previous government, and the Japanese economy did survive at least in some form or another after the peace treaty ending the war. Germany had to fact the task of completely restarting their economy from scratch through an interersting idea: Every German citizen was given 1000 marks that they could use in any way they wanted... and that initial bit of cash is what the German economy was based on ever since (until they moved to the Euro). And again, the German population was highly educated, trained in technical skills, and very literate.
The question that needs to be raised to any nation is if they can survive and thrive on this sort of disaster, or if instead what will happen is what did happen to the Roman empire after the invasions by the Goths and Vandals. Many people even during the early middle ages wondered deeply about what happened to Rome, and nearly all of European history up to the 21st Century can be read as a series of attempts to re-create that long-lost empire of old... including Hitler's Germany I might add.
China faces an interesting problem because while the Chinese people are very literate, they have traditionally lacked many of the technological skills necessary for industrialized societies. Due to becoming the manufacturing center for North America, China is, for better or for worse, getting those basic skills necessary to compete. Many of the environmental and economic problems of today are in part due to how China has become an industrialize nation, and the billion Chinese citizens throwing gasoline into their vehicles.
While I admit that the Chinese have copied many things, they also have some incredibly bright and well educated individuals that certainly can compete with the best of "western" society. At best, this whole thing about the messing up of the photo is more a lack of experience than a criticism that they can't create these ideas and products in the first place.
My concern isn't about China trying to get to the Moon, but rather the American government's apparent apathy about returning to the Moon or trying to even set any strong goals of any kind with space technology. Seven years from now (more or less), when the Space Shuttle retires, there doesn't really appear to be any likelihood of there even being a manned astronaut corps of any kind at all with experience in space. I have deep doubts about the Ares spacecraft program, and my gut tells me that NASA is going to screw this program up, like the last dozen spacecraft proposals that
You can even see its shadow.
http://www.boulder.swri.edu/~durda/Apollo/ls_17_5aa.html
Better yet, go to the root page, and explore the sites of each of the lunar missions. You can "tunnel" down to photos only a few hundred meters wide.
http://www.boulder.swri.edu/~durda/Apollo/landing_sites.html
This is so the chinese government can discern their high resolution pics of the moon from all the other people who have them.
which is sort of like.... ugh, I cant think of another siutation where there would be SO FEW other people that would have that level of rarity. i dunno, somrthing about slashdot readers and pretty girls, or leaving the basement.
you get my drift.
There's nothing Intelligent about Intelligent Design.
Chinese? It sure is! Japanese, to be specific.
"A great democracy must be progressive or it will soon cease to be a great democracy." --Theodore Roosevelt
Sorry, zero is as low as it goes.
Thanks. It takes practice and dedication, I must say.
You are welcome on my lawn.
No they didn't. If you RTFA, it was moved (accidentally) during the stitching process. Useess for scientific purposes, but not intentionally faked.
America, Home of the Brave.
Um, it's Hara Kiri. See this slashdot post for a detailed explanation.
Liberty uber alles.
Seppuku is Japanese but the Chinese have a long tradition of suicide to avoid disgrace, too. However, the Chinese never attached the ritual significance to it that the Japanese did.
It's hara kiri not hari kari. Harry Caray was a famous baseball announcer.
That there is NO MOON AT ALL. It was created by the CIA at the start of the cold war by doctoring all the photos, artwork and literature in all the books and museums of the world. Anyone who declaimed the hoax was locked up as psycho, cuz, obviously, since all the books showed pikchoors, and artwork from centuries past showed the moon, anyone who claimed it was a fake was nuts.
Doing this enabled the US to focus resources on missle development and the plan to economically destroy the USSR. That thing you see in the sky is just a big holographic movie - have you noticed that it loops on a 28-day cycle?
Pavlov wouldn't be so famous if he'd used a can opener instead of a bell.
You probably meant FARside.
China has it's own moon?
/^([Ss]ame [Bb]at (time, |channel.)){2}$/
I always thought he was a Chicago tradition?
I swear to God...I swear to God! That is NOT how you treat your human!
She said the Chinese must have blended together the seams between the strips - misplacing the crater. The picture may be pretty, but it's pretty much useless as a scientific product, Lakdawalla said.
To
And I find these "theories" high larious.
One building I worked in (35) had an annex that was used as a history office to store very old (Apollo-era) records, photos, etc.
I've seen what NASA actually stores, not just what's released. And these conspiracy theories (especially the 'moon landing hoax' theory) are incredibly giggliferous.
Pavlov wouldn't be so famous if he'd used a can opener instead of a bell.
Gomen Nasai/Sumimasen. Correction wa, gomen...
(My bad, particularly since the correct spelling was right there in the pages to which I made reference... sigh....)
Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
couldnt it be the crater of a recent impact?
Yes the insightful tag was more than I could have hoped for.
the chinese wouldn't have felt the need to cover up the "Ch" branded on the moon by Chairs giant laser. Goku wouldn't have been late, damn American super heroes always giving the rest of us a bad name.
"SPOOOOOoooonnnn!!!!!!"
Actually I do believe that the Chinese as people have the potential of matching or even overrunning the West economy. In fact, Chinese are very smart entrepreneurs. I think the problem lies in their current communist government (well, half-communist, but it still is primarily communist). Their administration simply does not seem to support a knowledge economy, allowing and using sweatshops, or copying already developed designs (Soyuz -> Shenshu). The Chinese people actually were first in many technologies (paper etc) when Europe was into its long dark age where theology was considered the highest academic field. In the field of philosophy China was (and is?) more advanced than the Christianity-dominated Europe (and even though now the West is free of religious limitations, it still seems unable to grasp certain advanced aspects of Chinese philosophy). But now they follow us, because their potential is limited by their inefficient government. And it's the same with Russians (very enterprising and smart people, but a very stupid government).
http://video.aol.com/video-detail/will-ferrell-snl-harry-carry/1926075673
I've heard interviews with people involved in receiving the telemetry from the early mars viking missions. They stated that they worked there in the 70's as well. One person said that one day while observing the image that two people in primitive type space suits walked up to the lander and disappeared behind camera view. There are just way too many people reporting issues like this. Gordon Cooper the astronaut is no exception, you can google his accounts any time.
Like I said in another post, I only write for those entertaining these possibilities. Whether accounts are falsified or real makes of little difference to me. Anything can be. If I actually have the experience myself there would be near zero percent taking my word out there. That's just the way things have been arranged. Certainly one is on their own.
We don't. You do.
Answered by: CmdrTaco
Last Modified: 10/28/00
This is not a signature.
It's an optical illusion until you realize that the shadows are forming in the bowls of craters. The sun is coming low from the right, and illuminating the left side of the crater walls.
Meanwhile, the LEM shadow looks long because the sun angle is so low.
> Over the years, NASA has employed directly and thru contractors at least 100,000 people, probably many more. Kids are hired right out of college, sometimes, to work in mission control for manned and unmanned missions, or to help design/build flight equipment. Honest, we're just folks, like any working in any other industry.
> Working on publicly acknowledged unmanned projects like Viking did not require a security clearance. Secret stuff is done by the DOD, which has its own people (the military), rockets, launch pads, and money.
> For the most part, NASA's telemetry has always been unencrypted, so anyone (including other gov'ts) can point a radio antenna at the right part of the sky and find out what NASA's up to.
> Aliens, artifacts, or other wierdness found out there would be worth kilobucks to ANYONE with credible NASA-related evidence.
For one of these NASA conspiracy theories to be correct and NOT be common knowledge, ALL of the following must happen:
> Somehow, NASA/Gov't or someone manages to clamp a lid on the secret as it happens, with a live, unencrypted telemetry stream.
> NO ONE outside NASA notices the sudden increase in secrecy/security and the simultaneous drop off in NASA's normally wide-open public relations communications. By the way, the NASA channel lets the cameras roll *unattended* thruout most missions. Somehow, the secret doesn't escape thru these vectors, either.
> Over 100,000 people who have no special motivation to secrecy are NEVER TEMPTED to sell the big story to a publication.
> NOT ONE publication gets even a whiff at the time the secret happens. Ever notice how it's always years later when the "theory" is first published?
I'll tell you fer sure: If I had proof of NASA encounters with LGM, I'd sell it for a few kilobucks. Almost any normal person would.
Here's my challenge to ANYONE out there who thinks there's some kinda NASA conspiracy, any kind: COME WORK AT NASA AND FIND THE PROOF.
Pavlov wouldn't be so famous if he'd used a can opener instead of a bell.
In regards to the Russian government, I had some high hopes that Yeltsin would have made some significant improvements in the system.
The most amazing thing for Yeltsin was when he went on a visit to Texas, and entered a grocery store, making note of a woman buying a large amount of food from a store that was obviously overflowing with goods. He thought she must have been some sort of high-level government employee because of all the nice stuff she was getting, and because the store was relatively empty at the time (no lines waiting to get in at all or even to the checkstand). It turns out that the woman was buying the food with Food Stamps, and was a single mother earning roughly minimum wage.
When Yeltsin realized that somebody on welfare in the USA was eating better than he was as the President of Russia, he realized that it would be nearly impossible to win a war against the USA, if the USA put up anything resembling a real fight. He also realized that some very significant reforms had to happen both politically and economically to Russian society if his country was to survive at all in the coming centuries.
I'll note that some much needed reforms have happened to Russia, and the overall standard of living in Russia is slightly better than before... even though there is a greater disparity between the rich and the poor now in Russia as well. Life is also much tougher as the current economic system in Russia is much more unpredictable than under the earlier Communist system, and I can understand why there are some Russians who hate the situation they are currently forced to live under right now.
As for China.... that is one really weird economy and political situation going on right now. In many ways you can compare the economic and political situation to a small town where the economy is dominated by one super-large employer. I'm talking something like a smaller mid-west town where a major manufacturing plant employs almost all private-sector jobs. There are hundreds of towns like this across America, and it is interesting to see how governments give in to that "company" whenever a political situation that affects that company shows up.
The reason I say that is because the Chinese "People's Army" is by far and away the largest employer in China. I'm not just talking the soldiers in uniform, but in nearly every other economic aspect of Chinese society. The Chinese Army owns and operates mines, smelting plants, manufacturing facilities, television stations, transportation systems, commercial shipping operations.... indeed nearly anything and everything that can be made or crafted in modern society. If you purchased something from Wal-mart that had "Made in China" on it, I would give it about a 50/50 odds or better that it was made by the Chinese Army either directly or indirectly. I'm not kidding here either. Oh, there are completely private companies in China too that aren't owned by the government, but the Army shows up in some way or another for nearly everything in China. It is also how the Chinese government can afford to support their standing army of 10's of millions of soliders, as the tax base in China isn't large enough to support the current level of military activity in China. A surprising amount of money gets transferred by the U.S. Army to the Chinese Army as well...through this economic activity. As a result, the Army in China tends to run the government and not the other way around. And THAT issue has some interesting political and economic consequences which go a long way to explain why China behaves as they do in the world trade markets.
Well, word has it that NASA started encrypting the signals supposedly due to UFO craft filmed by them making front page news. That's just words though.
Much of the best footage taken has been taken by NASA using cameras that pick up wavelengths beyond the visible spectrum. These craft appear to be at least cloaked to our naked eyes for the most part.
Have a gander here and please tell me your thoughts on them...
http://www.paradigmresearchgroup.org/QuotesPage.html
I work on simulators used to train astronauts, most recently, the network comm simulator. "starting encryption" with 20+ year old equipment that has no built-in encryption is a very big deal. (Yes, most of it is digital). It's not just a switch to flip - it would cost tens of millions. Consider that technology today and as predicted for the next 20-30 years, most forms of encryption provide time, not secrecy. ./, including this, should be construed as any kind of official statement from NASA or my employer. Facts I express are rumors unless you check them yourself, opinions expressed are just that, and not from NASA or my employer, hell, I may not even agree with'em if I stop and rethink it.
Plus, it would require a change in the simulators that simulate the equipment. We've never even been asked to estimate the cost of such a change, which would happen in the early "what if" part of management's planning.
No, NASA has NOT started encrypting...wait, let me qualify that: NASA has not started encrypting MANNED space flight telemetry. I have no personal knowledge of other areas.
And just for the record, NOTHING I post on
Pavlov wouldn't be so famous if he'd used a can opener instead of a bell.