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What Bugs Apple Fans About Apple

An anonymous reader writes "Forbes.com went to MacWorld to ask Apple fans what bugs them about the computer and gadget maker. Turns out the lack of replaceable batteries, need to buy Vista separately, and most of all the stock price bugs people."

437 comments

  1. What Bugs Apple Fans About Apple? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Nothing! Such talk is heresy, and for it you shall be burned at the stake!

    1. Re: What Bugs Apple Fans About Apple? by SoulRider · · Score: 1, Funny

      wouldnt that be iStake?

    2. Re: What Bugs Apple Fans About Apple? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      One would assume, but that would be a miStake.

    3. Re: What Bugs Apple Fans About Apple? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nothing? How about a Real Doll in the likeness of the Steve?

    4. Re: What Bugs Apple Fans About Apple? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Are you kidding nothing bugs us , We love to pay retail from a single source.

    5. Re: What Bugs Apple Fans About Apple? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      What the hell ISN'T wrong with apple? i'm glad that they finally figured out that they sucked enough they had to switch their OS over to a working one (they did make an excellent choice with the BSD kernel, they were able to realize they weren't smart enough to out-code BSD), and change their hardware over to something that people could actually use. fact is, apple's been crap in a shiny box for years. they've offered a hand full of features hoping that their systems would crash less if they put less on them, and now they're finally starting to get more use now that they're finally almost a working PC. their whole 'never breaks' marketing is complete BS, i've had macs crash far more frequently than PCs. the computer department at my school fixes more PCs than macs, but those are mostly software issues, and i think we can all agree that the average student knows nothing about upkeep on a PC. the only reason you need to do upkeep on a PC is that more people use PCs and thus more people try to break it. as we've seen time and time again no system of anything in computing works 100%, it can always be hacked. anyone remember the Novell challenge a few years back? back to the tech department here, they still fix a lot of macs, and mostly hardware issues with those (for all their shiny image, it's still crap hardware on the inside, stop fooling yourself).

      after all of that, let me say that i am NOT a microsoft advocate, although for the amount of people who attempt to crack their systems, i still think that they do a pretty good job. security is still an issue, and with millions of people using the software (daily) and thousands trying to break into it (daily), along with many poorly coded third party apps opening up other security holes (daily), of course, security still finds itself wanting. but honestly, snap out of it, steve jobs is not the savior, he's actually done a very poor job of leading apple. get your head examined, actually look up some of the back story. yes, apple had its glory days and was the best around back in the day, but this is today and the only thing they now have to offer now is a shiny box and big bouncing icons.

      the thing i find wrong with apple is apple. how about they just admit defeat? how about they stop trying to pretend that they're original and new (not to say that MS is)?

    6. Re: What Bugs Apple Fans About Apple? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      apple sucks. they break more than PCs, despite the lies that apple gloats over.

  2. What bugs Apple fans about Apple by halivar · · Score: 4, Funny

    "You know, the only thing wrong with Apple is that sometimes I just think they're too perfect. I just feel unworthy around the greatness of my iPhone and 24-inch iMac."

    *ducks*

    *runs*

    1. Re:What bugs Apple fans about Apple by Brian+Gordon · · Score: 3, Funny

      *chases you and stabs you in the back of your head with a shovel*

    2. Re:What bugs Apple fans about Apple by halivar · · Score: 4, Funny

      *sprays you with head giblets and +2 vorpal skull fragments*

      This can get as ugly as you want it to be.

    3. Re:What bugs Apple fans about Apple by d3ac0n · · Score: 1

      For some reason, head-chopping, gore and Apple reminds me of this comic.

      Not sure why....

      --
      Official Heretic from the "Church of Global Warming". Proven right thanks to whistle blowers. AGW = Flat Earth Theory
    4. Re:What bugs Apple fans about Apple by Jarjarthejedi · · Score: 1

      *Deafening roar followed by wave of flames as I calmly reload my Redeemer and wander off to end another fight with the magic of Nuclear Technology*

      --
      There are two kinds of fool One says 'This is old therefore good' Another says 'This is new therefore better'- Dean Ing
    5. Re:What bugs Apple fans about Apple by laejoh · · Score: 0

      This can get as ugly as you want it to be.

      Oh yeah, aight. Aight, I put on my robe and wizard hat.

      I cast Lvl. 3 Eroticism. You turn into a real beautiful woman.

  3. Yeah! That Stock Price! by Jeremiah+Cornelius · · Score: 4, Funny

    What's the deal there?

    I was much happier with Leopard (or Leo, as I affectionately call her) when the price of Apple stock was a couple bucks higher!

    Spend more for this, people! I want to congratulate myself for using my computer again!

    --
    "Flyin' in just a sweet place,
    Never been known to fail..."
    1. Re:Yeah! That Stock Price! by Brian+Gordon · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You might actually have a point there. By charging more and carrying on this whole cult of mac mentality, apple is duping people into thinking that they must be buying a superior product. The more Apple fans pay, the more aroused they get gazing at their sleek designer machines.

    2. Re:Yeah! That Stock Price! by Jeremiah+Cornelius · · Score: 1

      Sorry the jerks modded you as troll - when all you try to do is validate my "funny".

      --
      "Flyin' in just a sweet place,
      Never been known to fail..."
    3. Re:Yeah! That Stock Price! by Lars+T. · · Score: 1

      You might actually have a point there. By charging more and carrying on this whole cult of mac mentality, apple is duping people into thinking that they must be buying a superior product. The more Apple fans pay, the more aroused they get gazing at their sleek designer machines. So why oh why does Apple keep lowering prices? Yeah, thought so,
      --

      Lars T.

      To the guy who modded me down from perfect to terrible Karma - Apple haters still suck

    4. Re:Yeah! That Stock Price! by ckaminski · · Score: 1

      I cry bullshit.

      Dec 2006, 17" macbook pro, starting price $1999
      Dec 2007, 17" macbook pro, starting price $2799

      Dropping prices my ass.

    5. Re:Yeah! That Stock Price! by tedrlord · · Score: 1

      That was the theory, at least in the 80s. There was an executive at Apple, French guy, can't remember his name, who steadfastly refused to allow the prices to drop on Macs at all. His belief was that it was a better product and thus deserved to be more expensive. One wonders what the computer industry would look like right now if they'd swallowed their pride and priced their systems competitively way back when.

      --
      [insert witty quote here]
    6. Re:Yeah! That Stock Price! by Lars+T. · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I cry bullshit.

      Dec 2006, 17" macbook pro, starting price $1999
      Dec 2007, 17" macbook pro, starting price $2799

      Dropping prices my ass.
      Nice try, selling the 2006 low-end 15" as a 17". In the real world the price stayed the same - which still means Apple drops prices, just not for all products.
      --

      Lars T.

      To the guy who modded me down from perfect to terrible Karma - Apple haters still suck

    7. Re:Yeah! That Stock Price! by ckaminski · · Score: 1


          | I cry bullshit.
          |
          | Dec 2006, 17" macbook pro, starting price $1999
          | Dec 2007, 17" macbook pro, starting price $2799
          |
          | Dropping prices my ass.

      Nice try, selling the 2006 low-end 15" as a 17". In the real world the price stayed the same - which still means Apple drops prices, just not for all products.

      </quote>

      You're right. I did some travelling in the Wayback Machine, and you're right. I was wrong. :-/ Huh, I could have sworn they were far cheaper back in the day. Must be confused.

  4. Leave it Forbes... by idontgno · · Score: 5, Funny

    to assert that "Vista Not Included" actually bothers anyone beside Steve Ballmer.

    --
    Welcome to the Panopticon. Used to be a prison, now it's your home.
    1. Re:Leave it Forbes... by laffer1 · · Score: 3, Informative

      Not vista, but it would be helpful to buy a Mac pre-configured with bootcamp + Windows XP. I don't want it at home, but at work it would be quite nice. I could see small business customers loving it.

      My boss and I make jokes about Apple, Inc. vs. Apple Computer, Inc. Dropping computer in the name was not just to aid in the sale of phones. I think Apple has lost some focus on their computers. Leopard has not been as big as they had hoped. We're putting off the upgrade at work as long as possible. Leopard reminds me of vista in many ways. I won't bother to argue that point again. I know some people love Leopard and I've even found one person at work who loves Vista. I'm still hoping for a patch to get rid of the memory leaks with their new garbage collection in Cocoa. Most "power" users I know can get about a day a gigabyte (RAM) out of Leopard. I get two to three days out of my old PowerMac with 1.75GB of RAM. A friend of mine has 3GB in a Mac Pro and he can get 3-4 days before a required reboot. My boss has 2GB in his iMac, and left it on during the holidays. He couldn't login to it to reboot when he got back after a week. There are problems with it.

      I also seem problems with customer service. I pre-ordered Leopard. It came at 9AM on release day. I attempted to install it on my wife's Mac Pro. The DVD was damaged and I hadn't noticed. I skipped the disc check and prepared to install only to have the install die. I'm not blaming apple for having a non bootable Mac. That was my fault. However, I had to wait until 6PM to call them, wait on hold for 10 minutes to talk to someone, and then 50 more minutes to get a resolution. They didn't have 10.5 in their system yet to send me a replacement disc. The tech eventually arranged for me to go to the nearest apple store. He said I just needed the DVD and original package. I walked in to be harrassed by the Apple Store employees for not bringing a receipt. Had that Mac been my only system, I could not print it anyway! It wouldn't boot. The box only had a packing slip. I offered to bring it up on a demo system, but they didn't want that. Finally, they gave me a new Leopard box. I haven't been very fond of going to that apple store ever sense. The tech was nice, and I did realize it was a launch day. I didn't appreciate the shitty service at the apple store. It's not the first time I had problems in that store. I ordered online so I wouldn't have to go there. I had a friend who had to get his laptop fixed. They guy told him bootcamp was beta in Leopard! He also told him it was too unstable to use. WTF.

    2. Re:Leave it Forbes... by TheRaven64 · · Score: 4, Interesting
      What about the other things? Replaceable batteries? The batteries on my MacBook Pro and PowerBook are easily replaceable. Those on the iPod aren't, but I would much rather have a small device than a bigger one with a removable battery. Vista? I switched to Mac to get away from Windows, and all of the other operating systems I use are free (and Free). The stock price? Totally bugs me. Every time I use my Mac, I think 'this would be so much more useful to me if only Apple's stock price were different.' No, wait, I don't.

      The thing that really bug me about Apple now is that they seem to have completely forgotten how QA is supposed to work. I have filed more bug reports for Leopard since its release than for any other OS (including on that is reproduceable and causes the user's home directory to be rendered inaccessible by any Leopard machine). I have raised my standards a lot for what kind of bug I should file with Leopard. With Jagwyre and Tiger I filed bugs that were UI regressions or caused irritation. With Leopard I'm only filing ones that are major UI regressions or cause serious data loss and I'm still filing a lot more than I was.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    3. Re:Leave it Forbes... by MacDork · · Score: 5, Funny

      Batteries, yes. Vista, WTF?? Stock price, split already! Add to that, downgrades in Leopard, like the loss of airtunes in frontrow, the loss of file system menus in the dock, and how they borked previews in finder column views to force quicklook on you. Also, the inability to sync iTunes libraries on multiple macs is extremely annoying. If you can sync with AppleTV, why can't you sync with a Mini? Does RIAA cock taste that good Apple? Oh, and WTF is up with no airtunes audio jack on the new time capsule? Who missed that one? Other gripes, still no iPhone SDK, glass iPhone that's *going* to break, and phone software that's three years behind the rest of the industry with regards to MMS, camera, java, flash, etc and so forth...

    4. Re:Leave it Forbes... by tkdog · · Score: 1

      I stopped getting their ads when I moved, but there is/was at least one reseller that was selling systems with Windows preinstalled via boot camp. As I recall it was slightly more than the Apple store and you either got that or a "free" printer or some such thing. For PR reasons I don't see Apple shipping Windows machines anytime soon. Back to the topic, as a Mac user I do get frustrated at the lack of options in the desktop arena.

    5. Re:Leave it Forbes... by foniksonik · · Score: 1

      Your anecdotes don't fit with my anecdotes... my Macbook Pro (2GB RAM) goes for weeks without a reboot... no problems. There are some 3rd party apps that give me issues... Firefox is even slower than on Tiger for instance... but overall I'm really liking Leopard.

      Maybe it's a G5 vs. intel issue?

      --
      A fool throws a stone into a well and a thousand sages can not remove it.
    6. Re:Leave it Forbes... by binford2k · · Score: 1

      Your assertation of out-of-control memory leaks is bullshit. My MBP with Leopard is up for weeks at a time under very heavy use, even running XP in a vm half of the time. The only time it's ever rebooted is when a software update requires it (which is bs in itself, but that's another discussion).

      Since I put Leopard on (release day) I've had maybe 2 forced reboots and they had nothing to do with memory leaks.

    7. Re:Leave it Forbes... by je+ne+sais+quoi · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I can't tell you anything about Leopard, but here's my record for uptime on my desktop running 10.4:

      18:07 up 112 days, 8:57, 5 users, load averages: 0.93 0.24 0.08

      As I'm typing this, my desktop has been up 42 days. So, might I humbly suggest that it is not the OS that's your problem, could it be an application? (And yes, I also use my desktop as a file server/terminal for my cluster, that's why it stays up so much.)

      --
      Gentlemen! You can't fight in here, this is the war room!
    8. Re:Leave it Forbes... by p0tat03 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Agreed fully. Leopard, while not as big a disaster as Vista, was not a solid release - not in the same way that Tiger was largely problem-free. I'm still getting MANY network driver problems (refusing to talk to my router's DNS, but only when looking up CERTAIN entries), some BSODs were eliminated with 10.5.1, but IMHO some of them were so serious and easily encountered that it should never have been in any shipping version.

      Feature-wise I'm liking Leopard, the unification of the UI is definitely a step forward, and the only problem I have with the OS is its bugginess, and given how I'm used to the rock solid reliability of Tiger, I sometimes contemplate downgrade.

    9. Re:Leave it Forbes... by 0racle · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I believe Leopard has been the fastest selling OS X released so far. How much bigger do you think they thought it was going to be?

      --
      "I use a Mac because I'm just better than you are."
    10. Re:Leave it Forbes... by Mikey-San · · Score: 4, Informative
      Leopard has not been as big as they had hoped.

      Apple sells two million copies of Mac OS X Leopard in first weekend

      Apple today announced that it sold (or delivered in the case of maintenance agreements) over two million copies of Mac OS X Leopard since its release on Friday, far outpacing the first-weekend sales of Mac OS X Tiger, which was previously the most successful OS release in Apple's history.

      On June 6, 2005, Apple announced that they expected to deliver over two million copies of Mac OS X 10.4 Tiger by the end of that week (June 11, 2005). Mac OS X Tiger was released at 6pm on Friday, April 29, 2005. Therefore, it took 43 days to sell two million copies of Mac OS X Tiger vs. approximately 3 days for Leopard.


      Additionally, Jobs revealed in his keynote that in 90 days, Apple had shipped 5 million copies of Leopard (which of course, means retail boxes plus new machines, but Leopard undoubtedly helped sell those machines). This resulted in 20% of the installed base running the new OS in 90 days.

      You were saying?
      --
      Mikey-San
      Karma: +Eleventy billion (mostly affected by watching Celebrity Jeopardy)
    11. Re:Leave it Forbes... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I had my problems parsing "the need for Vista". No punchline anywhere.

    12. Re:Leave it Forbes... by Zaphod+The+42nd · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I'm personally offended that they would make it sound like the average mac user is saddened to find that OS X is NOT Vista. WTF? yeah, bootcamp is nice if you HAVE to run some windows app that dosn't have a mac port or equivalent (games) but the idea that the layman mac user is dependant upon windows is just asinine. From the community of mac users that I know, most of them are just happy to get by with iLife. They might need to buy Office so they can shoot .docs at their PC-using collegues, (I prefer neoOffice/openOffice personally), but they most definately do not *need* windows, nor do most of them know about bootcamp / care to try it.

      --
      GCS/MU/P d- s:- a-- C++++$ UL++ P+ L++ E+ W++ N o K- w--- O M+ V- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP t+ 5- X R++ tv+ b++ DI++ D++ G+ e++ h-
    13. Re:Leave it Forbes... by denominateur · · Score: 1

      Those on the macbook air are not... Imagine that, a laptop and you can't change the battery... 129$ for a new one, "free" installation at your apple store.

    14. Re:Leave it Forbes... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "....I skipped the disc check...."

      Now, THAT was your fault - less a problem with supposed "customer service" than with *customer*

    15. Re:Leave it Forbes... by sribe · · Score: 1

      I'm still hoping for a patch to get rid of the memory leaks with their new garbage collection in Cocoa.

      Garbage collection isn't likely your problem, since it's only implemented in the 64-bit version of Cocoa, which is used by approximately none of your current applications.

    16. Re:Leave it Forbes... by kabz · · Score: 1

      I upgraded my MBP and my wife's MB to Leper (as I call it!), and both machines have mild wireless issues.

      OTOH, my brand-new MB is working much like my (stolen) PB G4. Instant wake-up, and straight onto the network, without a mysterious 10 - 15 sec pause whilst 'searching'.

      On this datum, I'd recommend a reformat and reinstall, rather than an upgrade, if you want to move from Tiger to Leopard.

      --
      -- "It's not stalking if you're married!" My Wife.
    17. Re:Leave it Forbes... by MCSEBear · · Score: 1

      All you need to run Win32 software is Windows 98. Plenty of people have discs of Windows 9x lying around the house or office not being used. You're not trying to use it as your day to day OS, you just need something that will run Windows software. Be sure to turn off networking in the virtual machine so you don't have to worry about it's flawed internet security. Now you can run whatever vertical software you need for your business.

    18. Re:Leave it Forbes... by petermgreen · · Score: 1

      to assert that "Vista Not Included" actually bothers anyone beside Steve Ballmer.
      I agree it shouldn't be included but not having windows as a build time option is a major pain for those who wan't to be absoloutely sure of being legit. Using system builder packs on your own systems is something of a grey area, full retail windows is damn expensive and afaict most volume licenses are upgrade/downgrade only.

      --
      note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
    19. Re:Leave it Forbes... by stevebert · · Score: 1

      And AT&T should include Verizon minutes with all accounts... and Nike should include a coupon for Reebok shoes in every box... Seriously, this is a great business opportunity. Become a VAR that sells Macs preloaded with Leopard and XP/Vista. People will love it. After all, it's what they're asking for! '-)

    20. Re:Leave it Forbes... by Lars+T. · · Score: 1

      Not vista, but it would be helpful to buy a Mac pre-configured with bootcamp + Windows XP. I don't want it at home, but at work it would be quite nice. I could see small business customers loving it.

      My boss and I make jokes about Apple, Inc. vs. Apple Computer, Inc. Dropping computer in the name was not just to aid in the sale of phones. I think Apple has lost some focus on their computers. So Apple has lost some focus on their computers because they don't sell Vista with them. WTF indeed.
      --

      Lars T.

      To the guy who modded me down from perfect to terrible Karma - Apple haters still suck

    21. Re:Leave it Forbes... by Lars+T. · · Score: 1

      Those on the macbook air are not... Imagine that, a laptop and you can't change the battery The MacBook Air is thinner than replaceable batteries. If the size of those don't bother you, I'm sure somebody will sell you one that you can plug in instead of the power cord.
      --

      Lars T.

      To the guy who modded me down from perfect to terrible Karma - Apple haters still suck

    22. Re:Leave it Forbes... by russotto · · Score: 1

      I'm still hoping for a patch to get rid of the memory leaks with their new garbage collection in Cocoa. Most "power" users I know can get about a day a gigabyte (RAM) out of Leopard. I get two to three days out of my old PowerMac with 1.75GB of RAM. A friend of mine has 3GB in a Mac Pro and he can get 3-4 days before a required reboot. My boss has 2GB in his iMac, and left it on during the holidays. He couldn't login to it to reboot when he got back after a week. There are problems with it.


      Darwin melkor.local 9.1.0 Darwin Kernel Version 9.1.0: Wed Oct 31 17:46:22 PDT 2007; root:xnu-1228.0.2~1/RELEASE_I386 i386
      [melkor:~] russotto% uptime
      23:05 up 33 days, 9:39, 2 users, load averages: 0.06 0.09 0.03

    23. Re:Leave it Forbes... by the+pickle · · Score: 1

      Most "power" users I know can get about a day a gigabyte (RAM) out of Leopard. I get two to three days out of my old PowerMac with 1.75GB of RAM. A friend of mine has 3GB in a Mac Pro and he can get 3-4 days before a required reboot. My boss has 2GB in his iMac, and left it on during the holidays. He couldn't login to it to reboot when he got back after a week. There are problems with it.

      Here's some more anecdotal evidence to counter your totally anecdotal evidence.

      I've been running Leopard for a month now without logging out or shutting down ever. I've rebooted once, to install a software update (10.5.1), and I have 2 GB RAM and a 1.5 GHz PPC 7450. I simply do NOT reboot or log out unless a software update requires me to, and this has been my general practise since well before I upgraded to OS X in 2002.

      I do Objective-C development on a regular basis and am, by all accounts, a "power" user. One day per gigabyte my ass. It's no worse than Tiger or Panther was. (I have problems with the dev toolchain, mostly Interface Builder, but that's neither here nor there.)

    24. Re:Leave it Forbes... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      I look forward to the new BTO options on the Apple store.

      Your MacBook ships with a full copy of Mac OS X Leopard. You can also choose one of the following options:
      a) Microsoft Windows Vista Random Edition (Add $600)
      b) Swift kick in the crotch (Add $250)
      c) Vista + Suicide Pistol Combo pack (Add $700)

    25. Re:Leave it Forbes... by Aardpig · · Score: 1

      If an application can bring down the machine, then I don't want any part of that

      Aardpig is feeling sore coz his 200+ days uptime Linux workstation got powered off when the storm-induced blackout went on longer than his APC did...

      --
      Tubal-Cain smokes the white owl.
    26. Re:Leave it Forbes... by DrXym · · Score: 1
      Those on the iPod aren't, but I would much rather have a small device than a bigger one with a removable battery.

      That assumes your device would be noticeably larger. My Nokia 6300 manages to be exactly the same thickness as an iPhone and has a similar metallic backplate. Yet the plate is removable and so is the battery. Nokia managed it with a few clips and a few connectors, hardly things that would noticeably affect the size of a device.

      Why is it that Apple, so-called masters of design cannot manage the same feat? Why do they continue to seal in batteries when it is clearly something people do not like?

      The reason likely has far more to do with the fact that sealing in batteries encourages people to throw away an otherwise perfectly working device and buy a new one. Apples own battery replacement service is laughable - it's expensive, requires you send away your iPod, doesn't save your songs and doesn't even guarantee you'll get the same iPod back (so its too bad if yours is decorated or engraved). The service too seems to be priced and designed to discourage people from servicing their iPods and just throw them away.

    27. Re:Leave it Forbes... by DECS · · Score: 1

      Tiger was not "largely problem free." There were lots of problems: Spotlight didn't work great, Mail screwed up, there were problems with APE, and Tiger in general really recommendable until around 10.4.3. Leopard had a few minor problems, but comparing it unfavorably to Tiger is silly. 10.5.1 is already rock solid and a major improvement over the latest 10.4.11 Tiger in many ways.

      I manage hundreds of machines at a wide range of clients, and I've seen problems with third party drivers and hackie software plugins and several of the problems Apple addressed shortly after Leopard's release. It's no different than any other significant OS release, but far better than the plague that is Vista and really quite a large improvement over Apple's rollout of Tiger.

    28. Re:Leave it Forbes... by FireFury03 · · Score: 1

      Plenty of people have discs of Windows 9x lying around the house or office not being used.

      Except most of those discs that are lying around are OEM versions of Win98 which have already been installed on a machine. The Windows EULA you agreed to makes them non-transferable.

    29. Re:Leave it Forbes... by MCSEBear · · Score: 1

      Well, I wouldn't want to keep you from being able to sleep at night.

      I tend to ignore bullshit such as, "Even though you've paid for this, you're not allowed to use it." I'm just like that. I rip my CD's and listen to them on my mp3 player. Heck, I even think I'm allowed to to rip my DVD's and watch them on my portable media player. I'm such a rebel.

      Of course, you can certainly feel free to follow any unjust laws that the various intellectual property companies have bought and paid for. I just figure my right to use the products that *I* have bought and paid for is more important. (to me anyway)

    30. Re:Leave it Forbes... by mollymoo · · Score: 1

      If an application can bring down the machine, then I don't want any part of that

      Then whichever OS you use I suggest you configure it without swap, or with minimal swap, because the problem of applications using substantially more than the available RAM, causing the machine to thrash as it constantly swaps and thereby becoming so slow to respond that a reboot is the most expedient solution is far from unique to Mac OS X.

      --
      Chernobyl 'not a wildlife haven' - BBC News
    31. Re:Leave it Forbes... by EXMSFT · · Score: 1

      Agreed - I have an Intel MBP and iMac (2 and 4 GB, respectively) and both are up for weeks at a time. Sounds like the OP needs to take a look at what kind of software he's running...

    32. Re:Leave it Forbes... by FireFury03 · · Score: 1

      I tend to ignore bullshit such as, "Even though you've paid for this, you're not allowed to use it."

      Seems like an expensive way of breaking the law to me - buy a product, agree to the licence and then break it. If you're going to break the law you may as well just download the damned thing illegally in the first place. Of course, if you didn't like the licence you were agreeing to you could've rejected it instead of carrying on regardless with the intention of breaking your agreement.

      I rip my CD's and listen to them on my mp3 player. Heck, I even think I'm allowed to to rip my DVD's and watch them on my portable media player.

      I don't recall ever having agreed to a licence when I purchased CDs or DVDs.

      Of course, you can certainly feel free to follow any unjust laws that the various intellectual property companies have bought and paid for.

      These aren't "unjust laws" - if you accepted a contract (the EULA) then you are breaking your contract with the vendor. If you didn't like it you shouldn't have agreed. (Note that as far as I'm concerned it is completely legal to _remove_ the EULA from the software before agreeing so that you don't have to agree in the first place, but that isn't what it sounds like you are doing. From the sounds of it you are just agreeing to a contract with the intention of breaking it which is something that has been illegal for centuries).

    33. Re:Leave it Forbes... by Weedlekin · · Score: 1

      Rebellious people like you deserve to have your hands smacked quite hard.

      --
      I'm not going to change your sheets again, Mr. Hastings.
    34. Re:Leave it Forbes... by coolGuyZak · · Score: 1

      It makes sense that Time Capsule would work the same way as the Airport Extreme, which also lacks airtunes support. That said, I agree that the lack of synch services is painful.

      What's "borked" about the preview in column mode?

    35. Re:Leave it Forbes... by donstenk72 · · Score: 1

      The recommended way to install Leopard is "Archive and Install". Really. I found out after doing "upgrade" and had a number of annoying little problems requiring a re-install to get it to work perfectly. My wife's MacBook instead worked flawless after an "Archive and Instal".

    36. Re:Leave it Forbes... by MCSEBear · · Score: 1

      Actually, EULA's have been invalidated in cases where companies claimed that you could not resell programs their customers had bought and paid for because of terms in the EULA. I have never agreed to the terms of a EULA in my life. Putting a check box or a button in your software does not a legal agreement make.

      Feel free to be bound by such bullshit if you like.

    37. Re:Leave it Forbes... by MacDork · · Score: 1

      What's "borked" about the preview in column mode?

      The lack of a quicktime control bar.

    38. Re:Leave it Forbes... by FireFury03 · · Score: 1

      I have never agreed to the terms of a EULA in my life. Putting a check box or a button in your software does not a legal agreement make.

      If you clicked the "agree" button then you agreed. And yes, there have been a number of legal cases upholding the validity of EULAs (sadly). If you didn't like the terms you shouldn't have clicked the "agree" button.

    39. Re:Leave it Forbes... by MCSEBear · · Score: 1

      Since the courts have also ruled that EULA's cannot remove property rights such as the afore mentioned right to resell software, I'm not going to worry about it. I bought the software. I will use it as I see fit.

    40. Re:Leave it Forbes... by astrotek · · Score: 1

      Most business execs have no idea that macs can now run windows. Personally, the whole idea makes me feel dirty.

  5. Lack of acknowledgment of my market segment by MBGMorden · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I love Apple stuff. I love OS X and it has in the last few months been what Linux (after almost 10 years of trying) never could be for me: a complete and total replacement for Windows.

    With that said, I don't like Apple's computer lineup. We have a good selection on notebooks now: cheap, ultra portable, and powerful.

    Ok, now for desktop: cheap, all-in-one, and powerhouse workstation. Problem is: where is the regular computer? For anybody who wants a reasonably specced system (better than Mini, not as tricked out as the Pro) with no monitor added, there's just no good choice. I already have a monitor. Not only do I not want another, but I can't use it: I share my monitor between multiple systems and you can't do that with an iMac. iMac also has no upgrade slots for new video cards etc.

    I have an old G4 that does well. I have a hacked x86 "Mac" box that fits my computing needs. I have an Apple TV, and I have an iPod. I love Apple's stuff. I just wish that they'd make a "real" Mac that fit my needs so I wouldn't have to resort to building one.

    --
    "People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
    1. Re:Lack of acknowledgment of my market segment by Quirkz · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Agreed. In my case, I build web sites, so having two monitors is critical, something that the iMac and Mini won't support. However, I don't need a particularly powerful box to do the coding and some light graphics work. Because I want two monitors, I'm faced with the choice between a $600 Windows box or a $2500 Mac Pro. While I would gladly shell out extra money to have a Mac desktop--I'd pay $1000 or even $1500 for one, probably--I just cannot justify paying four times the price for the Pro. Unfortunately for Apple, this situation is pushing me towards Windows in general. I've got an old iBook for travel, but there's something to be said for consistency, and when the iBook goes out I'm not sure if I'll go Mac or Windows with the next laptop.

    2. Re:Lack of acknowledgment of my market segment by slyn · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I agree. I'm not much of a serious gamer, but I would love to have a computer with a good GPU, a decent CPU and lots of storage to tinker around with. I would Tri-boot and use OS X for normal web browsing, WoW, and making simple movies (like this one i made) in OS X, playing custom songs in GH3 in XP, and for experimenting with various FOSS OS's, as essentially the only experience I have is with Ubuntu. Part of that tinkering includes me wanting to make it myself, but that is not a neccesity. So essentially now the only thing that could fill that void is a Mac Pro, which would be more powerful than I want, or a Hackintosh, which I am putting some serious thought into getting now that the new Mac Pro's have 8800 GT's, and thus (hopefully, I haven't actually done any research on this) there will be drivers for that card in the OS x86 builds.

      Just like the parent I have a monitor, portability is not an issue, and the Mac Pro is overpowered for what I want to use it for. A computer with a 8800 GT, a Core 2 Duo, 500+ gigs of HD, and commodity everything else would be perfect for what I want to use it for, but there simply isn't one that Apple makes. If they did, I would be one of the first to line up for it.

    3. Re:Lack of acknowledgment of my market segment by eldepeche · · Score: 2, Informative

      I'm pretty sure an iMac supports dual monitors; you just have to shell out $20 for a dongle.

    4. Re:Lack of acknowledgment of my market segment by samkass · · Score: 1

      Yup. I'm holding on to my G5 tower for now until Apple either ships a reasonable desktop computer (ie. one with a slotted video card and a good mainstream processor) or a laptop with a docking station that will let me have 2 monitors but still snap it out and go.

      I've been waiting almost 5 years so far. I'm hoping they do this before I'm forced to go to the dark side.

      Dang, sometimes I wish someone other than Apple made "normal" computers that ran MacOS X.

      --
      E pluribus unum
    5. Re:Lack of acknowledgment of my market segment by binford2k · · Score: 0, Redundant

      why does building web sites *require* two monitors?

    6. Re:Lack of acknowledgment of my market segment by Zebra_X · · Score: 0, Troll

      But... Steve knows exactly what you want - what you need, even before you do. Maybe you just haven't figured it out yet.

      I mean, I was absolutely *sure* that I didn't want my airport extreme to use the .1 address on my network - but now that I reconfigured my LAN every thing works great! Thanks Steve!

    7. Re:Lack of acknowledgment of my market segment by alan_dershowitz · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Using the video output, your desktop was mirrored and did not span the two screens. (I don't know if the newest models still do this.) There were firmware hacks to get around this completely artificial restriction, which Apple put into place to differentiate their consumer line machines from their professional line. That's a thing about Apple that bugs me, now that you mention it.

    8. Re:Lack of acknowledgment of my market segment by revscat · · Score: 1

      Shut the fuck up.

    9. Re:Lack of acknowledgment of my market segment by DdJ · · Score: 1

      Ok, now for desktop: cheap, all-in-one, and powerhouse workstation. Problem is: where is the regular computer? For anybody who wants a reasonably specced system (better than Mini, not as tricked out as the Pro) with no monitor added, there's just no good choice.
      I think the problem here is, the typical user would consider the mini a "reasonably specced system". The mini is a "regular computer". To accommodate the people who want something in between the mini and the Pro, well, they're all going to want slightly different things, and that breaks away from the "small number of standardized systems" philosophy at Apple.

      If you're looking for a platform where you can have very fine-grained tuning of the hardware options across the whole product range, that's not Apple and it's not going to be. Is that what you dislike?

      I mean, I really don't know many people who wouldn't be happy with either a mini or an iMac. My wife uses a Mini. All my co-workers use iMacs. I am considering getting a Mini or iMac for home myself (right now I use my MacBook Pro and nothing else, no desktop system at all unless you count the Linux server farm in the basement). I think the market for something in between a Mini/iMac and a Pro really would be a niche market.
    10. Re:Lack of acknowledgment of my market segment by Darth · · Score: 1

      You could get a mac book pro and run it 2 headed (the built in screen, and a flat panel attached via the dvi port)

      Alternately, you could get an iMac and run it 2 headed using the mini-DVI port. You'll need a $20 adaptor to turn it into a regular dvi port, but that's not really that big a deal, is it?

      My wife has a 24" iMac and has a second monitor hooked up to it this way. It works just fine.

      --
      Darth --
      Nil Mortifi, Sine Lucre
    11. Re:Lack of acknowledgment of my market segment by kamochan · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The powerpc ibooks (and afaik imacs, never had a powerpc one) did have that artificial restriction. One bit changed in the boot loader prompt was sufficient to remove the restriction (the "firmware hack"), and it was so common that in practice it didn't even affect warranty (yes, I tested this). The intel macbooks and imacs do not have the mirror-only restriction.

      And I completely agree, the artificial restriction was annoying. I suspect that consumer feedback to that effect (mine included) affected the decision not to have it in the intel line-up, i.e. when a sufficient excuse came to remove the restriction without looking silly. The non-pro mac versions are better than pros also for some business stuff (desktops & road warrioring), in which mirror-only is a stupid restriction.

      My main annoyance of Apple is the rev.A quality suckage (and the truly sucky quality of Leopard, up to and including 10.5.1). I'm the friggin' customer, not a beta tester. My time is worth a lot, and that's a premium I'm not willing to pay. Consequently I am no longer an early adopter... but it sucks to just drool at all the new stuff :-P

    12. Re:Lack of acknowledgment of my market segment by itsdapead · · Score: 1

      Ok, now for desktop: cheap, all-in-one, and powerhouse workstation. Problem is: where is the regular computer?

      I share your frustration, but I think Apple's business plan depends on selling sexy. "designer" laptop and small form-factor systems that offer a high profit margin and long "product lifetimes" without being uncompetetive. Since the Intel switch, Apple prices (esp. at the start of a product cycle) have compared well with equivalent "premium" PCs.

      The mini-tower market is low margin and highly competetive, with big box-shifters putting together (often perfectly good) bargain bucket systems from whatever commodity products they have a surplus of that month. I think it would be hard for Apple to compete profitably in that market - but what they could very easily do is compete with themselves and sell low-margin Mac desktops to established Apple customers who might otherwise have bought high-margin MacBooks or iMacs.

      Also remember that the Mac "Cube" was a failure, as was the 1990s experiment with licensing Mac OS (surprise, surprise, the 3rd parties went after Apple in the high end workstation market instead of trying to make VolksMacs...)

      I have a hacked x86 "Mac" box that fits my computing needs.

      Probably not the stereotypical non-techie Mac user, then - although less so now that Mac OS = Unix. I suspect the best way that Apple can acknowledge your market segment is to turn a blind eye to non-commercial hacking of OS X.

      Not only do I not want another, but I can't use it: I share my monitor between multiple systems and you can't do that with an iMac

      Although I'm inclined to agree with that, iMacs can support a second monitor (which could be shared between multiple systems).

      --
      In a survey of 100 programmers, 111111 thought that duck-typing was a good idea.
    13. Re:Lack of acknowledgment of my market segment by alan_dershowitz · · Score: 1

      Apple tends to back away when it gets demonstrated to them that such restrictions don't work. The dual-monitor hack detailed above; They used to artificially restrict you to Apple-branded wifi cards in OS X even when other cards of the same chipset would have worked--they backed down when people kept hacking the OS to use whatever brand Wifi card they wanted; People kept jailbreaking the iPhone, so soon we're going to get an official dev kit.

    14. Re:Lack of acknowledgment of my market segment by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I own two macs BTW...

      Did you "hack" the Imac? Last I checked non-pro machines were crippled on purpose so you couldnt have a real 2 monitor setup - only spanning. This has always bugged me. If this isnt the case now its a recent change.

      As the other poster mentioned the lack of a mid range, no monitor, machine has also always bugged me. I have a 24 inch Imac and think its great but I could spend a lot more if they had a headless mid range machine at work and home.

      Now I hear the external superdrive is crippled to only work with macbook airs.

      I dont mind the tie in, I think of it more as integration, I do mind the history of intentional limitation.

    15. Re:Lack of acknowledgment of my market segment by MojoStan · · Score: 2, Informative

      Using the video output, your desktop was mirrored and did not span the two screens. (I don't know if the newest models still do this.) There were firmware hacks to get around this completely artificial restriction, which Apple put into place to differentiate their consumer line machines from their professional line. I haven't tried it a newer iMac, but a quick check on their specs page seems to indicate that they've lifted this restriction. From the "Graphics and video" section:
      • Mini-DVI output port with support for DVI, VGA, S-video, and composite video connections via adapter3
      • Built-in iSight camera
      • Support for external display in extended desktop mode
        • Digital resolutions up to 1920 by 1200
        • Analog resolutions up to 2048 by 1536
      • Support for external display in video mirroring mode
      --
      TO START
      PRESS ANY KEY

      Where's the 'ANY' key? I see Esk, Kitarl, and Pig-Up...

    16. Re:Lack of acknowledgment of my market segment by SpacePirate20X6 · · Score: 1

      All Intel macs support extended desktop, except the mini, which only has one DVI port.

    17. Re:Lack of acknowledgment of my market segment by v1 · · Score: 1

      Mirroring vs spanning is a case of available vram. (in all but a very small handful of cases) A few years back, if you have a pair of 1280x1024 displays and 2mb of vram, then you can't have spanning at millions of colors. You will have to knock down your colors or resolutions, or mirror. VRAM is limited by the video cards. Nowadays most displays have a ton more vram and have no problem spanning at full resolution and high color.

      --
      I work for the Department of Redundancy Department.
    18. Re:Lack of acknowledgment of my market segment by SoupIsGoodFood_42 · · Score: 1

      I used my old monitor as a 2nd screen for my iMac. Most people probably want a new monitor when they get a new computer, so that's the way Apple makes it. It works for me. If your old monitor was better than the iMacs, I could see your point, but I don't think that is case most of the time.

    19. Re:Lack of acknowledgment of my market segment by Blakey+Rat · · Score: 1

      I was in the same situation as you. I finally gave up when the G5 became intolerably slow and bought a Dell desktop and a HP tablet, both market segments that Apple refuses to acknowledge... I'm a reverse-switcher.

    20. Re:Lack of acknowledgment of my market segment by ChunderDownunder · · Score: 1

      One screen for developer tools, one screen for previewing in a browser.

      You might argue one can alt-tab (or whatever the Mac equivalent is) but the reality is that people are more productive with dual monitors. I'm not sure what the cost benefits are of one gigantic LCD vs. two smaller ones. But as the poster mentions, the second option isn't available in the mac mini. Use case: You start off with one monitor and decide you'd like more screen real estate - just plug in a second monitor? No, you can't.

      With a conventional desktop one can choose a dual headed graphics card or just add an extra PCI(X) card.

      So I guess a macbook wins over a mac mini, since on laptops one can attach an external display[1]. However, that's a $US500 price difference. Cost of including dual output on the back of a mac mini? At least make it an option on the 'fully loaded' model!

      Ultimately such design decisions, made by marketing, hurt workplace adoption. Another example, why no ethernet port on macbookair? A lightweight portable would be great for the school backpack or briefcase. However wired networks will be with us for sometime yet. Gigabit ethernet should outperform any CPU-bound USB2 adapter. Speaking of which, users will be forced to carry around a USB hub or otherwise access all their peripherals via bluetooth. I'm predicting, with the price difference over a conventional macbook, that the air will be a rare flop like the G4 Cube. But it's a 1.0 product, so they may learn and drop the macbook all together as the cost of producing these thin and light machines comes down.

      [1] As another poster mentioned, Apple went out of its way to cripple the firmware of their iBook range to differentiate it from powerbooks. Apparently multi-head was a "pro feature". Until they realised that it was available on every other 'consumer' laptop and rather than attract buyers to the powerbook range they'd be losing sales to other vendors.

    21. Re:Lack of acknowledgment of my market segment by RedWizzard · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Apple tends to back away when it gets demonstrated to them that such restrictions don't work. The dual-monitor hack detailed above; They used to artificially restrict you to Apple-branded wifi cards in OS X even when other cards of the same chipset would have worked--they backed down when people kept hacking the OS to use whatever brand Wifi card they wanted; People kept jailbreaking the iPhone, so soon we're going to get an official dev kit. They may back away when the restrictions don't work, but it doesn't seem to encourage them to stop implementing them in the first place. The company is no longer in the situation where they need to pull this sort of stunt and yet they continue to do so. That's something that annoys me about Apple.
    22. Re:Lack of acknowledgment of my market segment by failedlogic · · Score: 1

      Let me add my name to the -already- long list. I have an iMac G5. I was a first-time Mac buyer 3 years ago. The value OS X has added to my computing compared to Windows is immeasurable. No viruses, no registry, spyware, 150 files to update in Windows updates to worry about. Automator, 'Nix console are icing on the cake. But I will probably have to go back to using Windows in the next 4 to 6 months. I'm keeping my iMac its paid off and its hassle free. But, hardware wise there are too many limitations to the iMac. The Mac Pro + (any LCD, never mind Apple LCD prices are too high)- especially after adding 3 year Apple care, is just to bloody expensive.

      And that's another thing. What's up with the Apple monitor prices? $599 for a 20" Cinema display??!! I can buy 2 great name brand 24" monitors for the same price!

      I'm sure I'm not alone in this belief. And a lot of first time Mac buyers - of all technical levels - bought the "new" iMac design because it was that or the then Power Mac G5. The Power Mac G5 was an expensive purchase and at least a "loss" on the iMac wouldn't have been a big a blow. But the desktop hardware is really lacking for those of us who want to expand the computer internally and upgrade the video card, at the least to be able to play HD video as better cards are released.

    23. Re:Lack of acknowledgment of my market segment by binford2k · · Score: 1

      I don't dispute that it can be helpful to have two monitors, but I don't agree with parent's claim that it's "critical". I do all my web dev on an MBP with no external display. Virtual desktops (or 'spaces' as Leopard calls them) work just great. Code on one desktop, main testing with Firefox on another, IE, Opera and Safari to verify compatibility on another, etc.

      The ability to work at home, at the office, at the coffee shop, out in the yard, etc. are far more 'critical' than having two displays.

    24. Re:Lack of acknowledgment of my market segment by Paradise+Pete · · Score: 1
      or a laptop with a docking station that will let me have 2 monitors but still snap it out and go.

      I'm running a MacBook Pro with a second monitor, giving me a 2880x900 desktop. When I return from traveling it takes maybe 30 seconds to reconnect. Perhaps I'm not following what your objection is, but this setup works well for me.

    25. Re:Lack of acknowledgment of my market segment by mdwh2 · · Score: 1

      I think the problem here is, the typical user would consider the mini a "reasonably specced system". The mini is a "regular computer".

      Even typical users like to play games, and I see that the Mac Mini has the rather basic Intel GMA 950 processor.

      Disclaimer: yes, I do have the Intel GMA 950 in my laptop, so I do know what it's like - but it's just a laptop. I'd much rather something like the far more powerful but still cheap 8600GT I can shove in my desktop. A desktop PC, that is.

    26. Re:Lack of acknowledgment of my market segment by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      Problem is: where is the regular computer? It's in the notebook line. Mac laptops have been outselling desktops for two years, and this trend has been reflected in the rest of the industry since last year. People are not buying desktops anymore. If you want a desktop, but not a cheap consumer box or a workstation you are in a tiny niche. Apparently one well represented on Slashdot, but a niche nonetheless.
      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    27. Re:Lack of acknowledgment of my market segment by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The last computer to do that was the iBook G4, and it was discontinued entirely in May of 2006. All of the Intel Macs can use two monitors except for the Mac Mini (because it only has one DVI output).

    28. Re:Lack of acknowledgment of my market segment by evanspw · · Score: 1

      pig's arse. all the intel imacs have supported multiple monitors right out of the box. i plugged in my other 20" monitor into my 20" inmac the day i bought the imac and it just worked. with Leopard, with Spaces enabled, you even get double the virtual monitor space. i don't know if the g5 imacs supported dual monitors. get your facts straight! the imac is a very good work station for nearly all uses, and for your web devel is a walk over. i design chips on mine.

      --
      Interstitial spaces are filled with cream.
    29. Re:Lack of acknowledgment of my market segment by falconwolf · · Score: 1

      Although I'm inclined to agree with that, iMacs can support a second monitor (which could be shared between multiple systems).

      But can you use the all-in-one monitor when you replace your computer? I think in general people keep their monitors longer than they keep their computers. With 4 Windows PCs and one Linux PC I used 2 monitors. And the only reason I replaced the first one, a 21" Nokia, was because it went bad. I even paid $80 to send it into the service center to have it fixed but when I got it back it had the same problem.

      Falcon
    30. Re:Lack of acknowledgment of my market segment by ChunderDownunder · · Score: 1

      I don't dispute that you don't dispute that it can be helpful to have two monitors. :) And the ability not to be chained to a desk is great. But when one is...

      This swapping between 'spaces' may work just great but two heads are better than one. :) I was sceptical too until one workplace provided dual LCDs for every developer.

      So for the parent poster it was a killer feature available in a PC but not a mac mini. My sympathies lie in why Mac users can't have their cake and eat it too. As I stated, they could at least make it an option on the advanced model.

    31. Re:Lack of acknowledgment of my market segment by MBGMorden · · Score: 1

      An actual cheap consumer box I could live with - you can pull cards and processors out of your average PC consumer box and upgrade it. You might double the cost, but you can upgrade it to something more to your liking. Heck the most dirt cheap off the shelf computer would be fine for me after I a) put in a better graphics card, b) put in a little more RAM, and c) added an extra hard drive or two. If it's offered in a decent config already then I don't mind skipping that upgrade step, but merely having the option given the base platform is nice.

      The bottom line is that the VAST majority of the x86 PC's sold ARE basically what I (and apparently many others here) want from Apple. When you look at the PC market all-in-one's aren't doing so hot. Killer workstation rigs sell, but not in droves. The tiny form factor PC's are out there but not all that popular. The king of home PC's is the upgradeable mini-tower.

      I somehow refuse to believe that the particular style that absolutely dominates the remainder of the market is a "niche". Quite the opposite. Apple has made a name for itself catering TO niche markets, and in this case I think they're losing a lot by not setting aside their trendiness for just a bit and catering to the actual mainstream market for a change.

      --
      "People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
    32. Re:Lack of acknowledgment of my market segment by petermgreen · · Score: 1

      Most people probably want a new monitor when they get a new computer
      There was a time when practically every PC came with a monitor. Then manufacturers realised that not everyone wants to replace thier monitor as often as thier PC and they started making them optional. Now in my experiance it is unusual to find a PC where the monitor isn't optional.

      The imacs do now support an external monitor as an extra screen (from what I can gather in the powerpc days they didn't without hacks) but you still end up with a pair of monitors that don't match and when the imac reaches the end of it's usefull life I have to get rid of the lovely monitor that came with it too. No thanks.

      --
      note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
    33. Re:Lack of acknowledgment of my market segment by petermgreen · · Score: 1

      I think the problem here is, the typical user would consider the mini a "reasonably specced system".
      The typical user who doesn't game, doesn't edit videos doesn't want a couple of monitors probablly would yes.

      To accommodate the people who want something in between the mini and the Pro, well, they're all going to want slightly different things
      Every other major manufacturer manages to produce a cheap machine with expansion slots that can be used either for those more esoteric requirements or to extend the usefull life of the machine. Every other major manufacturer manages to produce a midrange machine for which you can choose your monitor(s).

      and that breaks away from the "small number of standardized systems" philosophy at Apple.
      Apple already offers build to order options on almost every machine in thier range.

      All my co-workers use iMacs.
      Do you think that given the choice of the integrated iMac or a similarlly priced and specced combination of seperate mac and monitor they would have gone for the iMac or the seperate units?

      Every other maker that has produced all in ones and small form factor machines has had them remain a niche product. This suggests to me that the reason the imac and mini sell so well is because they are the only reasonablly priced and legit way to get OS-X, not because customers want all in one.

      --
      note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
    34. Re:Lack of acknowledgment of my market segment by SoupIsGoodFood_42 · · Score: 1

      Who cares if they don't match? Seems a bit picky to me unless you really need them to be the same resolution. When my iMac reaches the end of it's useful life, there will be much better monitors around, and I'll have the perfect excuse to get a new one.

    35. Re:Lack of acknowledgment of my market segment by Lars+T. · · Score: 1

      I think the problem here is, the typical user would consider the mini a "reasonably specced system". The mini is a "regular computer".

      Even typical users like to play games, and I see that the Mac Mini has the rather basic Intel GMA 950 processor. Yeah, but typical users want to play typical games, not ego shooters that make a 8800 sweat.
      --

      Lars T.

      To the guy who modded me down from perfect to terrible Karma - Apple haters still suck

    36. Re:Lack of acknowledgment of my market segment by indiechild · · Score: 2, Informative

      The Cinema Display is targeted at pro users. The consumer Macs, i.e. the iMacs, already have their own built in displays. Cinema Displays are highly-specced and good for imaging and photography work. If you don't need that kind of spec, then go and buy a cheap 6-bit TN film LCD.

      The 20" Cinema Display is actually one of the few true 8-bit 20" screens still available. 90% of the screens out there are now the crappy TN film panels, which have lousy viewing angles and can't display 16.7 million colours properly, despite their marketing claims to the contrary. I was quite surprised a year ago when I did a lot of research for buying a new screen, and the Cinema Display was the most competitive and best value screen in its class. This is more true than ever now as the market for 8-bit screens keeps shrinking.

    37. Re:Lack of acknowledgment of my market segment by toddestan · · Score: 1

      I don't see it as a nitch, it's just that we've gotten to the point that for most people, even a computer that's several years old is perfectly adequate for their needs. People like their desktops, it's just that their 3-4 year old computer is still chugging along and they see no reason to replace it. It would be the same for laptops, except that laptops get abused and break, so the demand for laptops hasn't fallen off like it has for desktops.

    38. Re:Lack of acknowledgment of my market segment by mdwh2 · · Score: 1

      Yeah, but typical users want to play typical games, not ego shooters that make a 8800 sweat.

      I said 8600, not 8800. And even the low end graphics cards way outperform the Intel GMA 950. Typical users may not care about ego shooters, but they may still care about non-old games that will struggle on this chipset.

    39. Re:Lack of acknowledgment of my market segment by kklein · · Score: 1

      I wish Apple would realize how many people fall into this group. I'll probably be biting the bullet here in a few days and getting the new lowest-end Mac Pro, because I need multiple drive bays and I want to be able to upgrade video. And because I already have a monitor I like. And because I already have an Apple laptop and love it, but don't really see the point of pulling the keyboard off of it and standing it on my desk (i.e. an iMac).

      It's been explained to me multiple times, and I think these people are right, that basically Apple doesn't want to put something in between the iMacs and the Pros because that would totally kill the Pros, which would pull them out of the pro graphics/video production/audio production/what-have-you market that they have really used as their lifeblood for these many years. By forcing people like you and me to choose, they force us to (usually) buy a Pro (or, in the olden days, a PowerMac) and keep those lines alive. I am absolutely positive that they discuss a "normal" Mac all the damned time in Cupertino, but that they have (probably rightly) deemed this a line- and market-killer.

      I have been on the Mac for about 6 months now, and I absolutely love it, after 9 years off the platform, when I was perfectly happy using Win2k and XP Pro. Now that XP is getting a little worn around the edges, and Vista just looks like more of the same, only slower, plus bad copies of Apple UI ideas, I took a tentative step into the fruity waters and have seen my productivity skyrocket. I never noticed how many little problems I had under XP--because I was used to them and because I knew how to fix them or work around them--until I saw what a computer was like without them. I still use all my Windows-only apps flawlessly with Fusion, and I can still boot a native Windows machine for games. I absolutely agree with you that Apple has succeeded where Linux has failed--it has become a viable alternative to Redmond. I love the idea of Linux, but at the end of the day, check my sig:

    40. Re:Lack of acknowledgment of my market segment by MBGMorden · · Score: 1

      I can agree with that. Not to mention that at least half of the people who own laptops (myself included) seem to have a desktop computer as well. Laptops are great. I love mine. That being said, they make for a piss poor computer for general use. The displays are smaller and don't look as nice. The keyboards suck to type on. They have tiny hard drives. The only way I could possibly use one long term would be if at home I had a separate monitor, keyboard, mouse, and external storage all waiting to hook to it when I got there.

      It'd be like living in an RV all the time because you can take it anywhere. Sure, that's a wonderful feature and they're awesome on camping trips. You COULD technically even live in one long term and it will take care of all your basic shelter needs just fine. The smart thing to do though, is to have a more permanent and comfortable dwelling that you usually live in, and take the RV out just when you need to.

      The same applies to laptops and desktops IMHO. The laptop serves only as a temporary fill in when it's needed.

      --
      "People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
    41. Re:Lack of acknowledgment of my market segment by lucas+teh+geek · · Score: 1

      sounds like you'll have your wish very soon... http://netkas.org/?p=46

      --
      TIAEAE!
    42. Re:Lack of acknowledgment of my market segment by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      recent my arse. the ibook was the last crippled non-pro machine and they havent been available for a long time now.

    43. Re:Lack of acknowledgment of my market segment by arminw · · Score: 1

      .....Every other major manufacturer manages to produce a cheap machine.....

      Is it so hard to grasp that Apple doesn't build cheap stuff? Is it so hard to figure out that BMW doesn't make cheap cars? If you can't afford a Mac Pro get a cheap Dell. If you can't afford a BMW, a Yugo. A Dell computes (most of the time) and a Yugo will usually get you across town.

      --
      All theory is gray
    44. Re:Lack of acknowledgment of my market segment by Westacular · · Score: 1

      I do that too, sometimes, but find the required angles and desk space to be quite awkward. The MBP's screen only really works nicely when you're sitting at it's keyboard; trying to use the MBP's screen as a secondary screen while it's hooked into a normal keyboard/mouse/monitor desk setup is ... hard to arrange, lopsided, and doesn't come close to the usefulness of a proper symmetric dual-head setup.

      It's not a deal breaker, for me, but I do sympathize with the grandparent poster.

    45. Re:Lack of acknowledgment of my market segment by Westacular · · Score: 1

      And all that obviously goes double for the new MacBook Air.

      It seems to me -- and not just because I'm describing my own current position -- that many, if not most, of the people who've been buying MacBooks over the past two years are first-time Mac users. To extend the RV metaphor, eventually these people will get tired of traveling and want to go home. They might probably want to continue the Mac experience there! But they already have perfectly good monitors and keyboards and mice, and they know how nice it is to be able to toss in more hard drives and RAM and swap video cards a couple years down the line.

      Apple is missing the opportunity to lock these people in as dedicated Mac users.

    46. Re:Lack of acknowledgment of my market segment by mabhatter654 · · Score: 1

      exactly, Charging $20 to update the 3 month old iPod touch software but not for Apple TV software. stupid. The new Nvidia 8800 card...only for the NEW (2008) Mac Pro. stupid. Dropping iPhone price in the same 60 days of release. Stupid. Disabling Boot Camp for Tiger leaving users less than 30 days to debug their software on Leopard. Stupid.

      Notice a pattern!!

    47. Re:Lack of acknowledgment of my market segment by mabhatter654 · · Score: 1

      a mac mini converted to a "cube" with a PCI & PCI express slot, dual monitors off the built in, and 3.5 inch HDD bay would mop the industry. There would be plenty of difference because most of us don't want $3000 Xeon servers, but a core 2 duo is great for gaming... with a VIDEO CARD!!!

    48. Re:Lack of acknowledgment of my market segment by wintermute000 · · Score: 1

      hear hear

      If there was one that was ~$1600-$1700USD with quad core CPU, 2 gigs, > 500 Gig and an 8800GT that would be perfect.
      Considering you could build that config with ~$1200-1300USD I think that accurately reflects the premium / OSX tax.

      I love my macbook and apple applications but I am not getting a Mac Pro with its complete overkill specs / prices. And what is with the ridiculous price for upgrades from the Apple shop? 700 bucks AUD for extra 2 gigs more RAM here in Australia, which is ~600USD. You can find 2 gigs RAM easily from any third party supplier / shop for ~120AUD. Also where are the high end Nvidia cards?!?! you're spending over 3k AUD and all you get is a freakin 8600GT (which is what $150 AUD value?!??!). So it will be awhile before my windows/linux Core2Duo rig is replaced my a mac.....

    49. Re:Lack of acknowledgment of my market segment by FireFury03 · · Score: 1

      I love OS X and it has in the last few months been what Linux (after almost 10 years of trying) never could be for me: a complete and total replacement for Windows.

      Out of interest, why do you find that Linux can't replace Windows? I've not had any use for windows for about 7 years now - Linux has done everything I need and most of the time it's done it better.

      With that said, I don't like Apple's computer lineup.

      I've often found Apple computers to be unsuitable for various reasons. For example (as you mentioned), the old iMac had the monitor and computer integrated together - I don't know about anyone else but I have never upgraded my monitor and computer at the same time and the idea of having to throw away one to upgrade the other erks me (in fact, I _still_ use my 10 year old 15" Sony monitor as a secondary and it's as crystal clear as it was when it I first got it). The laptops have always had a single big flaw for me - the fact that the trackpads only have physical button.

      Not to mention the price of the kit - an Apple laptop of a similar spec to my Acer was about twice the price.

      I'm really not convinced by the Air either - IMHO once you get under about 25mm the thickness really doesn't matter that much. If you wanted ultra-portable you'd be buying something with a smaller screen since that's what limits the size the most.

    50. Re:Lack of acknowledgment of my market segment by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Umm, the iMac has a video out port, so $1199 will get you a computer that will support two monitors (one of them is obviously built in)

    51. Re:Lack of acknowledgment of my market segment by Serious+Callers+Only · · Score: 1

      Using the video output, your desktop was mirrored and did not span the two screens. (I don't know if the newest models still do this.


      This has not been true for a long time. I've been using an imac with 2 monitors for years. So an imac is perfectly suitable for design work, unless you don't like LCDs.
    52. Re:Lack of acknowledgment of my market segment by mollymoo · · Score: 1

      With Leopard's resolution independence it may not be a problem (I haven't tried Leopard yet), but without resolution independence spanning across monitors with different dpi just sucks. You can anchor one edge in the OS to match your physical configuration, but if the OS can't compensate for differences in dpi things will stretch and the mouse will jump as you go from monitor to monitor.

      --
      Chernobyl 'not a wildlife haven' - BBC News
    53. Re:Lack of acknowledgment of my market segment by Ash-Fox · · Score: 1

      With that said, I don't like Apple's computer lineup. We have a good selection on notebooks now: cheap, ultra portable, and powerful.
      Uhm, the cheapest Mac laptop I can buy costs £699.00, while I can get a decent laptop at the local computer store (comes with Vista) for £399.00 (1GB RAM, 2ghz 64bit processor - two cores, decent directx 10 graphic card, integrated a/b/g wireless).

      The laptop options I can get at that price is usually subnotebooks with those specs or widescreen laptops with those specs. That's practically half the price of Apple's cheapest laptop. I really don't agree with 'cheap'.

      Now, do they work decently? I know a good amount of people who own such laptops and don't appear to be having problems yet (I might add that I was asked to install Windows XP for them on a few of these laptops though).
      --
      Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
    54. Re:Lack of acknowledgment of my market segment by Paradise+Pete · · Score: 1

      You're right, it's not as good as dual external monitors. A laptop stand makes a big difference in getting the angle right, but I still think of it as a "secondary" display, where less important things go.

    55. Re:Lack of acknowledgment of my market segment by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      All models in the Apple line except the Mini support a second monitor and have for a couple years now. And not just mirroring, but actual screen-spanning. They allow it through DVI, VGA, or S-/composite video. Some models do this through a mini-DVI port, requiring an adapter that is either included or $19.

      I'd probably be first in line to buy a Mini if they added support for a second monitor.

    56. Re:Lack of acknowledgment of my market segment by MBGMorden · · Score: 1

      Out of interest, why do you find that Linux can't replace Windows? I've not had any use for windows for about 7 years now - Linux has done everything I need and most of the time it's done it better. It couldn't replace Windows for me (not saying that it can't be a replacement for anyone). It's not that there was any particular task it didn't work for, but "Linux", being a very globular thing, didn't have consistency in the interface. The flow of various applications could change, the differing toolkits made buttons between programs different. Also, everything is in development all the time. Many programs have little annoying quirks and such that just bug me.

      As pluses for the Mac platform, it actually has some games available (namely, World of Warcraft), as well as Microsoft Office, which is still my preferred office suite.

      In general, I just didn't like the "feel" of any Linux desktop I tried to use (I use it on most servers that I can at work though - but those don't have GUI's which is the part of Linux that I am most lacking). Mac OS X is far more polished, most of the software feels the same way, better apps are available, etc. In essence, when I used Linux (which I'd have times when I'd be on Linux exclusively for up to 2 weeks), I didn't really like using it more than Windows. I was only using it BECAUSE I was trying to use something non-Windows. With Mac OS X, I truly do prefer to be in the environment and view switching to my Windows machine as a chore (one that thankfully, I don't have to do anymore :)).

      I do still have Linux on an extra machine though. It's not normally booted up these days, but it's there for when I want to play around on it (mostly just interested in programming and such). Ironically I played with it enough over the years (I first tried Linux around 97-98) that at work I'm known as "the Linux guy". I handle any server that we use Linux on and I'm VERY capable in the Linux environment - I just don't like using it as a desktop long-term. I do hear on on the laptop price issue though. My laptop is actually an HP running Vista :). It was cheap, and does what I need it to. I only use it maybe 5 times per year on business trips anyways. When not traveling I've got a computer at work, and a computer at home. If I'm between those places I don't mind just not computing for a while :).

      --
      "People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
    57. Re:Lack of acknowledgment of my market segment by FireFury03 · · Score: 1

      but "Linux", being a very globular thing, didn't have consistency in the interface. The flow of various applications could change, the differing toolkits made buttons between programs different.

      Interesting - I found that Windows was very similar, with each application choosing to do things differently. (I'm aware that Apple has always had much stricter UI guidelines though).

      Also, everything is in development all the time.

      Well, it is true that there is a lot of development going on (but I consider this to be a Good Thing). Whether you have to deal with the "in development" stuff yourself is greatly affected by your choice of distro. For example, if you choose Fedora you will get lots of development stuff because it is intended to be a bleeding edge distro. On the other hand, if you use CentOS, Debian, etc. you'll have the stable releases of stuff because they are intended to be stable distros.

      Also, in my experience, the Free Software world's definition of "in development" is often the Windows world's definition of "released".

      Many programs have little annoying quirks and such that just bug me.

      You just described my experience of Windows. :)
      Actually, I think you just described my experience of pretty much every platform, but at least the Free ones allow me to fix things that I find annoying enough.

      As pluses for the Mac platform, it actually has some games available (namely, World of Warcraft), as well as Microsoft Office, which is still my preferred office suite.

      I guess this is the big deal. I don't tend to play many games (although I was under the impression that World of Warcraft would run under WINE?) and it is rare that I need an office suite - for writing letters, etc I tend to use LaTeX since it is easier and faster than using a word processor. On the odd occasion I do need an office suite OOo suits me fine (sadly they have adopted some of the Microsoft Office annoyances, such as Auto Fuckup^WCorrect :).

      In general, I just didn't like the "feel" of any Linux desktop I tried to use

      I guess the major plus-point for me about Linux desktops is that they are far more configurable. For example, if you want sloppy-focus (which I do) you just turn it on and it works, whereas under Windows you _can_ turn it on with TweakUI but from what I've seen it tends to break a lot of stuff. I've not really got any experience with OS X but from what I understand it also isn't anywhere near as configurable as the Linux desktop environments.

      I've settled on Gnome + Compiz-Fusion as my preferred environment (although the Gnome projects' constant efforts to make the UI more userfriendly - read: move *all* the config settings into the Windows Registry^W^Wgconf instead of providing a nice configurator is a bit frustrating). I guess I would be most happy on a combination of Enlightenment 0.17 and Compiz-Fusion but sadly they aren't compatible with each other.

      I handle any server that we use Linux on and I'm VERY capable in the Linux environment - I just don't like using it as a desktop long-term.

      I'm quite surprised that you find Windows nicer to use if you're used to using the Linux command line tools. When I'm stuck behind a Windows machine I think the single biggest annoyance is probably that I can't just open up a terminal window and hack up a bit of bash script to do some repetitive task.

      Anyway, I'm just happy there are an increasing number of alternatives to Windows - people don't consider you quite as weird these days if you don't use Windows at all. :)

    58. Re:Lack of acknowledgment of my market segment by wonderdog · · Score: 1

      You're operating on old information-- both you and the parent post. iMacs have had a mini-DVI out port for at least a few generations now. I have a Dell 24" LCD connected to my 2 yr old iMac 17". Video performance running both screens is more than good enough for me, tho I'm not a gamer.

      Still, would love to have a moderately priced tower/mini-tower/something with easy HD access and at least 1 slot.

    59. Re:Lack of acknowledgment of my market segment by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      delears despise their customers in my unfortunate experience. (You do not get that in Las Vegas)

    60. Re:Lack of acknowledgment of my market segment by DdJ · · Score: 1

      Even typical users like to play games, and I see that the Mac Mini has the rather basic Intel GMA 950 processor.
      Mmm... most MacOS users I know who care much about games are playing 'em on consoles. I'm in this boat myself. Most of my gaming these days is on an XB360 (hopefully I'll soon add a Wii to the living room).

      My wife does play games on her Mini... casual games, stuff like "Bejeweled". Those all work just fine.
    61. Re:Lack of acknowledgment of my market segment by samkass · · Score: 1

      Basically, I'd like a setup where I don't have to put up with the stuff that you just mentioned you're willing to put up with.

      I have two 19" external monitors which are identical and side-by-side. I like that arrangement. It's a setup my work laptop (a Dell) supports nicely. In addition, the Dell snaps out and in in 5 seconds so I can pop off to a meeting. Who wants to spend 30 seconds to dock/undock? Especially since I use almost all the ports (ethernet, VGA, DVI, 3 USB 2.0s, audio, ...) Apple's supposed to be about making things elegant and easy. Yet the current lineup of machines are hacky and hard to use from a hardware perspective.

      By the way, I also like two buttons. Maybe I should just give up my 18 years of Mac loyalty and buy a Dell already and stop complaining.

      --
      E pluribus unum
    62. Re:Lack of acknowledgment of my market segment by IntergalacticWalrus · · Score: 1

      Aye, aye. The day Apple will make a real consumer desktop computer I will buy one.

      Right now the only non-laptop choices they have are:
      - A cute but underpowered machine that's basically a low-grade laptop (complete with slower laptop components) but without battery and built-in display and input (which makes it fairly pointless).
      - A "for everyone" all-in-one machine with few customization choices, better-than-integrated-but-still-poor graphics and a built-in display most of us don't want/need.
      - A freaking huge machine that does provides what the others lack (powerful hardware including graphics, customizability, etc.) but with needlessly expensive server/workstation CPUs and RAM.

      I'm not holding my breath though. I think part of Apple's philosophy states that consumers shouldn't have computers that allow for too much customization, in order to avoid problems and maintain predictable hardware configurations.

      Right now I own a MacBook, and once I finish my bachelor's degree I plan on changing to something more powerful once I won't need a laptop anymore, but I guess I may end up buying a MacBook Pro even though I won't need a laptop, because none of the Mac desktops appeal to me. That, or I give up Macs, of course. Sorry guys, it's been a good year and a half but you fail to deliver what I want/need.

    63. Re:Lack of acknowledgment of my market segment by IntergalacticWalrus · · Score: 1

      And what is with the ridiculous price for upgrades from the Apple shop? 700 bucks AUD for extra 2 gigs more RAM here in Australia, which is ~600USD. You can find 2 gigs RAM easily from any third party supplier / shop for ~120AUD.

      The Mac Pro needs fancy expensive workstation/server RAM, remember it has Xeon CPUs.

      Also where are the high end Nvidia cards?!?! you're spending over 3k AUD and all you get is a freakin 8600GT (which is what $150 AUD value?!??!).

      Actually they bumped the nvidias to 8800 GT 512MB now.

    64. Re:Lack of acknowledgment of my market segment by wintermute000 · · Score: 1

      Good to hear.

      Well right now in Oz, the apple online store is still listing ATI 2600 Pros against trhe 4000 dollar AUD Mac Pro.

      Appreciate your comment on the server RAM.

      However if we're going server, where are my hotswappable scsi hard drives with (proper) hardware RAID???

      Anyhoo I think apple really needs to release a power-user desktop box (i.e. sans monitor). I love my macbook but no way I am getting an imac to replace my desktop - I don't want (slower and more expensive) laptop components hard wired to a screen i can't replace or change out i.e. an IMAC.

    65. Re:Lack of acknowledgment of my market segment by riker1384 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The mini-tower market is low margin and highly competetive, with big box-shifters putting together (often perfectly good) bargain bucket systems from whatever commodity products they have a surplus of that month. I think it would be hard for Apple to compete profitably in that market - but what they could very easily do is compete with themselves and sell low-margin Mac desktops to established Apple customers who might otherwise have bought high-margin MacBooks or iMacs. If they made a desktop Mac it wouldn't be directly competing with Windows PCs in price and specs, because what the Mac would have, what people would want it for is Mac OS.

      Just because Windows desktops are low-margin, doesn't mean a Mac desktop has to be. They could keep the same margins, build a regular desktop and it would still either be more capable than the Mini, or cheaper, because desktops are simply more cost-effective. I'm sure Apple's design geniuses could make an elegant desktop case, it just wouldn't be as small.

      You're asserting that people buy Apple because of the "sexy" hardware and I just don't buy it. I buy Macs purely for the operating system, and I think many other people do as well. Probably some people want to but they can't because of the overpriced hardware. Nobody likes to deal with security problems and that alone would be a big selling point.

    66. Re:Lack of acknowledgment of my market segment by riker1384 · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      Well, Mac laptops probably outsell the desktops because they don't make a bloody desktop. If they made a desktop computer rather than novelty form-factors, then they would probably sell more desktops.

    67. Re:Lack of acknowledgment of my market segment by Gr8Apes · · Score: 1

      Disabling Boot Camp was unnecessary, but you didn't have to upgrade to 10.4.11. I've tended to only upgrade when I think I need it, not whenever Apple has it ready to go. There's always some early adopters out there who can't wait to play with the latest release of anything - I'll let them test it and make statements.

      And what prevents you from plugging in an nVidia card into last year's Mac Pro? (Unless the MB firmware doesn't accept it, that's a different issue)

      But, the pattern I notice is that of a hardware company starting to notice that HEY, software can make money too!

      --
      The cesspool just got a check and balance.
    68. Re:Lack of acknowledgment of my market segment by itsdapead · · Score: 1

      If they made a desktop Mac it wouldn't be directly competing with Windows PCs in price and specs

      It would have to be vaguely competitive to avoid lots of negative reviews, and to wean people off Windows - I think people do care about relative bangs-per-buck as well as the sticker price - in the credit-card age, its more about what you can persuade yourself to borrow than what you can actually afford, and a perceived bargain is always a good incentive for that. Anyway, if its not competing with Windows then it would be competing with other, higher value, Macs.

      You're asserting that people buy Apple because of the "sexy" hardware and I just don't buy it.

      Different people buy Macs for different reasons - the technical superiority of Mac OS X is one, sure, but if the sexy-looking hardware isn't also a factor then Apple sure are pissing away millions of dollars on unnecessary R&D.

      Probably some people want to but they can't because of the overpriced hardware.

      So? Apple is a for-profit corporation, not the OLPC project. The question is not whether a desktop Mac would attract new customers, but whether it would attract enough new customers to compensate for the inevitable reduction in sales of MacBooks, iMacs and MacPros to existing Mac converts.

      18 moths ago, I bought a Mac Pro. If there had bean a cheaper "non-all-in-one" Mac between the Mini and the Pro then I would probably have got one of those instead, and Apple would have significantly less of my money. They'd have had to wean at least one new customer away from Windows to compensate for that.

      --
      In a survey of 100 programmers, 111111 thought that duck-typing was a good idea.
    69. Re:Lack of acknowledgment of my market segment by mathletics · · Score: 1

      I build websites and am reading /. on my iMac display with Windows running in Parallels on the second display. I'm unfamiliar with the limitation you described.

    70. Re:Lack of acknowledgment of my market segment by magical_mystery_meat · · Score: 1

      18 moths ago, I bought a Mac Pro. If there had bean a cheaper "non-all-in-one" Mac between the Mini and the Pro then I would probably have got one of those instead, and Apple would have significantly less of my money. They'd have had to wean at least one new customer away from Windows to compensate for that.

      Judging from this thread and the opinions of many other people that I've spoken with, the problem is not that people don't want to switch, it's that the perception of lock-in keeps them from making the switch. If I had a dollar for every time I've heard "I like Apple products, but they're so expensive and you can't upgrade them," I could... afford a Mac Pro.

    71. Re:Lack of acknowledgment of my market segment by tetsuo29 · · Score: 1

      Don't know about the current iMacs, but my 11 month old MacBook does not have this artificial limitation. When connected to an external display, it is easy to switch it between spanning and mirrored. Also, applying the firmware hack on my previous iBook was no big deal and then I had the same options.

      --
      english is my first language, but my only formal education in it was from U.S. public schools, so you may forgive me for
    72. Re:Lack of acknowledgment of my market segment by mabhatter654 · · Score: 1

      I understand Boot camp was "time bombed" for late 2007 long in advance (before 4.11), but it was far to close to the release of leopard for proper customer service because Leopard was so late. If you are still waiting on your favorite App to be supported after only 4 months you can't reinstall tiger with bootcamp... THAT is the problem, poor customer service and forced upgrades in spite of what the PAYING customers NEED to do with their machines.

      The Nvidia thing was over at engadget earlier last week. Apple released an "upgrade" for only the NEW Mac Pro that was released in 2008!!! while many fans that spent good money on a Mac Pro in 2007 with crappy cards got told to "upgrade" their $3000+ machines for the upgrade? Note that under dual boot Linux or windows (not OSX), a normal PC version Geforce 8800 works just fine... it's APPLE's Firmware choice that's the problem here, not technical issues. It's POOR customer service to the fans that spend the absolute MOST money on your stuff.. that's crappy!!

      The iPhone and Touch are just icing on the cake lately. Accounting issues be damned, changed pricing and adding features within 90 days of product launch is simply unprofessional for anybody. THIS is the reason Apple nearly died in the early 90's. While IBM clones were selling machines that could do anything you wanted Apple maintained locked down, slow evolving machines and refused to let customers evolve in any non-approved manner... Apple's doing it again, and that's extremely cocky, stuck up, and pretentious approach to customer service, especially the fanboi-hacker customers!!!, is going to undo them shortly. I JUST bought a Mac in August and Apple's behavior is atrocious, the hardware and OS is fantastic, the FUTURE customer service seems awful though.

    73. Re:Lack of acknowledgment of my market segment by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      it was a software disable that could be fixed in terminal very easily (or via a 3rd party gui tool if you're scared), but I agree completely with the sentiment.

      new ones (imacs) span.

    74. Re:Lack of acknowledgment of my market segment by petermgreen · · Score: 1

      As you say apple doesn't participate in the very bottom of the market but that isn't what this is about. I don't object to paying a bit more for apple build quality, I do object to having to buy the top end (> £1000) models to get features that are standard on PCs.

      To extend your car analogy imagine a car manufacturer that designed all but thier very top end models so it was impossible or at least extremely difficult to fit a towball or a better stereo system or a hands free kit for your carphone.

      --
      note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
    75. Re:Lack of acknowledgment of my market segment by arminw · · Score: 1

      ....to get features that are standard on PCs......

      So what features, other than an expansion slot does a "standard" PC have that an iMac or Mac mini doesn't? If you already have a nice monitor and keyboard, get a Mac mini. If you have a valid copy of Windows, the 2.0Ghz duo will run that quite well with a virtualization program at he same time as OSX10.5 in case you have some Windows apps you really need. You can also use the included Bootcamp program to install Windows, just as you would on any PC.

      Forget about high graphics games however. Basically you then would have two machines in one. A virus free Mac and a Windows box for all your favorite programs you may already own. You can even add your favorite flavors of Linux to fool around with if you use a virtualization program, such as Parallels 3.0. I've read that anyone moderately skilled with tools should be able to open the mini to install more RAM and a bigger HD.

      --
      All theory is gray
    76. Re:Lack of acknowledgment of my market segment by petermgreen · · Score: 2, Informative

      So what features, other than an expansion slot does a "standard" PC have that an iMac or Mac mini doesn't?
      An ordinary PC desktop:
      Either supports two monitors of my choice out of the box or can be fitted with a cheap and easy to fit card that allows it to do so.
      Monitors are usually a seperate item that can be bought from a different supplier to the PC if desired and saved from one PC to the next.
      Either has graphics suitable for moderate 3D gaming out of the box or can be fitted with a cheap and easy to fit card that allows it to do so.
      Can be fitted with extra hard drives on proper hard drive optimised interfaces mounted internally where they won't get unplugged by accident and run off the computers power supply so people won't forget to turn them on.
      Can have it's ram and hard drives upgraded/replaced with a single screwdriver.
      And yes can be fitted with expansion cards either immediately to meet specialist requirements or later to extend the machines usefull life.

      The mini
      only supports one monitor (unless you want to get into really crappy USB to VGA adaptors)
      Monitors is seperate item that can be bought from a different supplier to the mac if desired and saved from one mac to the next.
      has space for only one internal hard drive which must be a laptop model (slow and/or small).
      requires two very thin putty knives to open and more dissasemby after that to get at the drives/ram, yes it's not as bad as some laptops but that doesn't make it good..
      has no usable expansion slots (there is a mini PCIe or something with the wireless card in but you can't really get anything else for those slots and it has no external access).

      The imac
      supports two monitors but one of them must be the built in one
      comes with a built in monitor that cannot be kept after the end of the macs usefull life.
      has space for only one internal hard drive though it is a proper desktop model.
      haven't researched getting inside this one in detail but the impression I get is that the ram is easy to get at but the hard drive requires a lot of dissasembly.
      does not have much in the way of expansion slots, the graphics card is replacable but only with special cards that are hard to obtain.

      --
      note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
    77. Re:Lack of acknowledgment of my market segment by arminw · · Score: 1

      .....comes with a built in monitor that cannot be kept after the end of the macs usefull life........

      The useful life and resale value of Macs is considerably higher than a similar aged PC. Check out e-bay for that. I bought my younger daughter a Macbook to replace her G4 iBook so she could also use Windows at her university. I now use her old iBook G4 as a very capable media machine connected to a digital projector and our stereo system in the living room. It plays back DVD's and iTunes material. I gave my 7 year old Titanium G4 Powerbook to a friend of limited means and he is as happy as a lark. He is using its built in S-Video connection with his Sony TV to show movies and photos, as well as mail and web surfing via the built in wireless. His much newer, faster Windows desktop machine has fallen into disuse, gathering dust, despite the fact that the old Mac is rather slow. The PC will not connect to his TV set without added hardware and software.

      (.....has space for only one internal hard drive though it is a proper desktop model......)

      I have a portable 500G firewire HD which will connect to any Mac. It will transparently boot any of them in case there is a problem and also serves as a backup for the data on all of our Macs and one PC. Being external, it only gets powered on when actually needed, rather than running all the time like a built in drive would. This means it should last a long time. Even though firewire is spec'd slightly slower than USB2.0, in practice it is faster. I have never heard of an external HD setup for PCs that will boot any laptop and also any desktop system. They have system specific setups. I've used this capability to restore damaged file systems on some other people's Macs. Being able to buy a family license for 5 Macs for not much more than one legal copy of Windows XP Professional or Vista, as well as avoiding all activation hassles is no small potatoes either.

      I don't go in for games, but everything I've read, Macs don't have many good games available for them. For all other uses, their graphics is more than adequate. My teenage son likes games, so I bought him an x-box for those. He can also run Windows on his Macbook, but he doesn't use it for games. Over the long term, Macs are more economical, even though they cost more to buy initially, than Windows systems.

      --
      All theory is gray
    78. Re:Lack of acknowledgment of my market segment by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      http://www.apple.com/imac/specs.html

      Support for external display in extended desktop mode
              * Digital resolutions up to 1920 by 1200
              * Analog resolutions up to 2048 by 1536

      Apple listened to this complaint and they fixed it with the introduction of the last series G5 IMac.

  6. price of hardware considering upgrade cycle by jollyreaper · · Score: 1, Insightful

    If you need to buy a new laptop every three years, you can almost justify it when they cost $600. Still annoying but you can live with it. When the laptop starts at $2000 and has the same upgrade cycle, that's when baby jebus starts crying.

    --
    Kwisatz Haderach
    Sell the spice to CHOAM
    This Mahdi took Shaddam's Throne
    1. Re:price of hardware considering upgrade cycle by Bastardchyld · · Score: 1
      You said:

      ...When the laptop starts at $2000 and has the same upgrade cycle...

      Actually currently on Apple's Store they have laptops starting at $1099. Did you round up?

      Seriously though if you think they are too expensive then fine don't buy one, but if you are going to make an argument that they are too expensive please use accurate, or at least keep the price close to accurate (read: don't double it).

      --
      $diff terrorists hippies
      $
      $rm -rf *terrorists *hippies
    2. Re:price of hardware considering upgrade cycle by merreborn · · Score: 1

      If you need to buy a new laptop every three years, you can almost justify it when they cost $600. Still annoying but you can live with it. When the laptop starts at $2000 and has the same upgrade cycle, that's when baby jebus starts crying.
      Every laptop with specs comparable to the macbook carries roughly the same price as the macbook's $1100.

      Good luck getting a $1100 HP to last more than 6 months, though.
    3. Re:price of hardware considering upgrade cycle by Bastardchyld · · Score: 1

      Wow...

      If you cannot keep a machine (of any make) running for more than six months than you probably should save your money.

      --
      $diff terrorists hippies
      $
      $rm -rf *terrorists *hippies
    4. Re:price of hardware considering upgrade cycle by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Dell with 15" screen and comparable options: $750
      HP with 14" screen, twice the memory, twice the HD space and a DVD+/-RW: $925

      $350 difference for the same options and a $175 difference for significantly improved hardware != roughly the same price for comparable specs

      I like Macs. I wish I could really afford one. But lets not have fanboyism clouding our judgement.

    5. Re:price of hardware considering upgrade cycle by havenskate · · Score: 1

      Dell and HP are a poor comparison to a Macbook. Try comparing prices of the Apple Macbook against a Lenovo Thinkpad (what I would argue is the high end of the "PC" market) instead and you'll see that the prices are actually very competitive.

      Oh -- I just priced out getting the hardware to build my own PC vs. buying a new 8 core Mac Pro too and it seems to me that the Mac Pro is priced very competitively as well. Apple has grown up a lot.

    6. Re:price of hardware considering upgrade cycle by Anarchitect_in_oz · · Score: 1

      But it's not the same upgrade cycle on the $2000.
      It's 2-3 years for the first power user yes, but the hardware is still good for another 2-3 years for a non power user.
      If your needs only justify a $600 laptop why by new one that has no place to go but landfill after 3 years?
      Buy second hand or get on a hand me down path.

      If you need a power user machine then find yourself a hand me down path to roll the machines down collect a bit money off your next upgrade

      --
      "Call us when the New age is old enough to drink" Beck
    7. Re:price of hardware considering upgrade cycle by ThePhilips · · Score: 1

      Have you ever seen a PC notebook which runs perfectly for two years and hadn't seen single OS reinstallation nor were ever sent to service?

      I use for my job laptops last two years. With Dells this is usual thing to send the lappie to service (and Dell handles it pretty quickly). HP and Toshiba are better: from personal experience they require half less attention what Dell or Acer or Fujutsi-Siemens brands require. But of course if you need to run up-to-date software, then reinstalling Windows every year is pretty normal routine.

      I can't use for work Macs. I owned two privately. I had literally zero problems with them. I kept all software up-to-date. I was carrying the notebooks along with my office ones constantly. While my first Dell lasted something like 8 month (DVD drive died), heavier used iBook G4 lasted for two years until it was lost. Now in office I have new Fujitsu-Siemens and the stupid hardware in quality department really sucks - compared to 4 years old s/h PowerBook G4: VGA output on FS pretty useless for anything but 1024x768 projectors while PowerBook decently drives my 1680x1050 display; speakers of FS are crap; track pad on FS is crap; *newer* FS has no DVI output but 4yo PowerBook has (FS needs a dock for that); FS case started developing crack on case because of constant closing/opening of lid - something I couldn't even though is possible in notebooks and obviously PowerBook is lacking; etc.

      One really need to read deep into "devil in details" when comparing $750 Dell and $1100 Mac notebooks. Devil in details. (I've seen that too many times with PC hardware...)

      Macs in my experience worth their money. If you can afford them. Otherwise go with simpler brands: quality of notebooks slowly but steadily improves and they do not fail often now like they used to in past. Macs remain several steps ahead in quality and software/hardware integration part - but that's why they cost more. Saving few bucks but getting bit more problems to handle for many is good compromise.

      --
      All hope abandon ye who enter here.
    8. Re:price of hardware considering upgrade cycle by falconwolf · · Score: 1

      If you need to buy a new laptop every three years, you can almost justify it when they cost $600. Still annoying but you can live with it. When the laptop starts at $2000 and has the same upgrade cycle, that's when baby jebus starts crying.

      When it comes tyme for me to replace my MacBook Pro my plan right now is to list it on eBay. Macs generally have good resale value. Right now eBay has a MacBook Pro 17 CORE 2 DUO 2.4GHz 4GB RAM Leopard Glossy, with the exceptions of 2GB instead of 4GB and running Tiger my MacBook Pro is the same, with the highest bid at $2,424.00. That's more than I paid for my MBP new. Then again I had a discount on it. I figure selling my MBP on eBay will pay for most of the cost of a new one. However as I haven't signed up with eBay I'll probably have my sister list it.

      Falcon
    9. Re:price of hardware considering upgrade cycle by mdwh2 · · Score: 1

      Dell and HP are a poor comparison to a Macbook.

      Okay I'll bite - why are they a poor comparison?

    10. Re:price of hardware considering upgrade cycle by falconwolf · · Score: 1

      Have you ever seen a PC notebook which runs perfectly for two years and hadn't seen single OS reinstallation nor were ever sent to service?

      No I haven't. I have only seen 1 desktop Windows PC that ran and didn't need to be repaired or have a part replaced within 6 months of getting it new. My luck with Macs has been much better. I've had my MacBook Pro for 5 months now, in that tyme I've taken it into an Apple store once. When I got it. When I did I ordered some utilities with it, but when I tried to install it I first tried to bootup the computer with the DVD in the drive to run a test. For some reason the test wouldn't run. So I took it in and the Geek said the version of the utility was old. She suggested I call the vender and let them know, that they'd probably send me a new version.

      While she was friendly and knowledgeable, since I bought it from Apple Apple should have replaced it itself.

      Falcon
    11. Re:price of hardware considering upgrade cycle by tigerhawkvok · · Score: 1

      I'll bite. Mine was running fine for a year on Vista since Beta 2 before I decided to upgrade to 32 bit. I'll admit my card reader hasn't worked in 64 bit (trust the manufacturers to go out of business before releasing an x64 driver), but since May it's been humming along quite swimmingly. Currently its dual booting (without a reinstall, just a repartition) Ubuntu 7.10 / Vista SP1.

      Contrary to popular belief, Vista actually runs just fine. Ironically, I had problems on XP -- I decided to stick a desktop processor in the laptop and above 96% CPU or so it overheats. Well, it was bleeding edge three years ago ....

      --
      Blog
    12. Re:price of hardware considering upgrade cycle by havenskate · · Score: 1

      Build quality and size. 1" thin and 5 pound laptops are hard to come by in similar specs to the macbook. I will still say the macbook is more expensive - sure, but osx is a great OS too and it's not really a simple thing to run that on a regular "PC" laptop. IMHO of course

  7. Old complaint... by SaidinUnleashed · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Don't get me wrong, I love my new macbook, but the one-button mouse really bugs me. I can live with the two-finger click thing, but I'd really prefer a two, or three button trackpad.

    --
    Shiny. Let's be bad guys.
    1. Re:Old complaint... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Mighty Mouse can be configured to provide right-click. I have the wireless model, and I like it just fine.

    2. Re:Old complaint... by phoebusQ · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I find that very interesting. For me, the two-finger scroll and two-finger alt click have been godsends. Now I can left click, right click, and scroll without changing my finger position on the trackpad whatsoever. I can't stand using the separate right click on my IBM linux laptop now.

    3. Re:Old complaint... by cromar · · Score: 1

      That's interesting. I prefer my mice to have two buttons, but when it cums to trackpads I greatly prefer the "two-finger technique(TM)" for the right-clicking. I wonder what preference / difference in use causes this...

    4. Re:Old complaint... by FrankDeath · · Score: 1

      I thought that the one-button trackpad would be the thing I hated most about my new MacBook Pro (I recently switched from Windows). Thanks to the two-finger click I have grown to love the single trackpad button.

      The thing that I'm still fuming about is the lack of a cut (Cmd+x) feature for files in Finder. Would it really be so horrible to allow advanced users who are ok with the "inconsistent" behavior to enable the cutting of files? It would make switchers like me much more productive.

      I guess it's better that they don't allow cutting...at least until they fix the bugs with moving files (interrupting a move causes you to lose the files you're copying).

      FrankDeath

    5. Re:Old complaint... by takanishi79 · · Score: 1

      After having used a lot of trackpads from a number of different manufacturers, I definitely like the single button version of the trackpad best. I never feel like I'm touching something that isn't supposed to be part of the computer (like I do with most other manufacturers), and the double touch to right click feels better than any button could for me, short of an actual mouse.

    6. Re:Old complaint... by jacksonj04 · · Score: 1

      I'll join the rest of the people replying to this and say: "Really?"

      When I find myself on Windows laptops I often catch myself doing the two-finger right click or two-finger scroll motions then cursing when they don't work.

      --
      How many people can read hex if only you and dead people can read hex?
    7. Re:Old complaint... by Trillan · · Score: 1

      The move bug was fixed in 10.5.1.

      They moved so fast on that one that in retrospect I should have reported it in Mac OS 8 when I first noticed it.

    8. Re:Old complaint... by kamochan · · Score: 1

      Same here. Even earlier, having the big single button and the whatwasitcalled, SideTrack thingy was just a huge efficiency improvement in using a laptop. This from a heavy X stuff user. YMMV of course, but I now also intensely dislike the awkward IBM button-thingy.

      Ergonomics is something Apple does well, and ergonomics correctly applied leads to efficiency.

    9. Re:Old complaint... by Admiral+Ag · · Score: 1

      With the multitouch functionality in the new MacBook Air probably coming to the next iteration of Apple laptops, I think that the second button issue will become an anachronism. People will get used to the trackpad finger dance, and buttons will start to seem pointless.

      I already want to kill whenever I can't two finger scroll on other brands of laptop. The forward/back functionality and pinch on the new Apple machines looks like it will be a keeper as well. I honestly think than in a year or so, there will be no point in using a mouse with your Apple laptop.

      --
      "by that I mean people who don't sit on slashdot all day wondering why everyone else isn't building robots" DECS
    10. Re:Old complaint... by RealGrouchy · · Score: 1

      I wasn't aware of the two-finger click thing at the time, so the one-button mouse put a macbook out of the running when I recently bought a new notebook.

      Instead I got a Dell Vostro, whose mouse buttons occasionally register single-clicks as double-clicks, which can be really annoying in the wrong situation.

      - RG>

      --
      Hey pal, this isn't a pleasantforest, so don't waste my time with pleasantries!
    11. Re:Old complaint... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ditto! With the Mac way, you no longer have to break your thumb to work from one side of the touchpad with the opposite side button. Having to look at the trackpad to aim you thumb (not the best aiming finger) at a specific narrow button is wasted eye movement. Laying two fingers down and dropping your thumb anywhere is a motion you can do anywhere, without thinking, without looking. There is never an "oops, I hit the wrong button, start the selection over" moment.

      You can scroll vertically and horizontally in one motion with two fingers, using, again, just muscle memory. You don't have to look for the very edge of the trackpad to do it, both eyes on the screen. It's the least distracting way to task between the keyboard and pointer. It's a crime Apple don't make a USB version to use on a desktop. The only place where it sucks is in playing video games, just like anything else that isn't a real mouse. Maybe if apple gave absolute position support, it would be ok for gaming, I dunno.

      Oh, and I know about the ThinkPad nipple, I used to have one. This is still better. The middle-button + nipple scrolling is nice when it works. If an app can't keep up in framerate (looking at you Firefox), it would scroll some random overrun. The overrun would cause a worse framerate, causing more overrun, until sometime well after you let go. Some apps simply won't scroll at all, since scroll events are somehow hacked in at a library level. It was still really good for how much hand movement the nipple saved, and was very quick and accurate to zip the cursor around the screen. It avoided the traditional trackpad problem of having to aim your thumb at a button by keeping your hand stationary, muscle memory still lives. Thinking back on it, I loved it but wasn't "in love" with the nipple, I am that way with the Mac trackpad.

      Can I have my "smug mac a-hole" membership card now?

    12. Re:Old complaint... by Poromenos1 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Show me a person who doesn't wish for a right trackpad button on the mac, and I'll show you a person who doesn't use Opera.

      --
      Send email from the afterlife! Write your e-will at Dead Man's Switch.
    13. Re:Old complaint... by leenks · · Score: 1

      Likewise, but I do miss having the two buttons below too - eg it is now impossible to do anything that requires both mouse buttons pressed together without an external mouse (or at least I've yet to find a way)

    14. Re:Old complaint... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What? He's talking about the trackpad.

    15. Re:Old complaint... by zerocool^ · · Score: 2, Informative


      Dude, I used to be the same way.

      But, then, I went fiddling around with it, and for starters, if you enable the options:

      tap two fingers on the touchpad = right click
      put two fingers on the touchpad and move them = scroll

      And I have to agree with an above poster, now that I've had these features (fleetingly, damnit, i hated giving the macbook pro back when i quit my last job), I can't stand to use touchpads without them. Once I had this stuff enabled, and knew how to use it, I couldn't have cared if the damn thing had any buttons.

      I mean, come on, apple, the rest of the world now has 5+ button mice (mine has L, R, two thumb, scroll wheel which scrolls u,d,l,r, and is clickable, on-the-fly sensativity settings). I think mom and pop can deal with a two button mouse. But I get what they're doing: they're trying to save the techie types from "Ok, now left click on...", by A.) KISS philosophy, B.) Allowing power users to enable these functions on the new mightymouse, C.) Engineering the OS so that almost all common functions are one click away, not two+ or a right click away, i.e. by having contextual buttons on each app.

      ~Wx

      --
      sig?
    16. Re:Old complaint... by fullgandoo · · Score: 1

      Oh come on! It is way more convenient to use a two button mouse. Any one but a "head up Steve's butt" Mac fan would admit to that. It is just out of spite that Mac is still without a two button mouse! I bet you don't even use a full size qwerty keyboard, you probably just use mouse clicks instead! By the way, what do you use your precious little middle finger for? I know that I will never get modded up beyond 1, but you need to grow up.

    17. Re:Old complaint... by Yahweh+Doesn't+Exist · · Score: 1

      for as long as I've had my iBook G4 I've used SideTrack to make the top right corner right click (it supports different tasks for all 4 corners) and the top and right edges as horizontal and vetical scrollbars.

      Give it a go:

      http://www.ragingmenace.com/software/sidetrack/

    18. Re:Old complaint... by phoebusQ · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I need to grow up? It seems the rest of us were having a mature discussion until you came along...

      But in answer to your post, we are talking about trackpads here, rather than external mice. Of course a two-button mouse is preferable to a one-button mouse. Of course, the external mouse Apple ships is a two-button mouse. I don't prefer it myself, but it does have two buttons.

      Few who have taken the time to learn the Apple trackpad would consider going to back to a less-capable style, unless they have a particular need for pressing both buttons at the same time (I myself don't).

    19. Re:Old complaint... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I never like to use trackpads in any case - and Macs make very good use of mouse buttons on a third-party mouse...I think the lack of multiple buttons even on modern Apple machines is just a facade due to some misplaced pride. By default, OS X has more uses for a multi-button mouse than MSWin.

    20. Re:Old complaint... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're quite right, I don't wish for a right trackpad button on a Mac, and I don't use Opera. Nor do I want to, on any platform at all.

    21. Re:Old complaint... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh come on! It is way more convenient to use a two button mouse.
      you add NOTHING to the conversation. this is about trackpads (in bold because your a numbnuts
    22. Re:Old complaint... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Agreed!

    23. Re:Old complaint... by pipingguy · · Score: 1

      tap two fingers on the touchpad = right click

      Is there some secret command that enables this? I've tried it on my Mac laptop (actually, you just gave me an excuse to drag the thing out and try it) and it doesn't seem to work.

    24. Re:Old complaint... by MonoSynth · · Score: 1

      it should be:

      place two fingers on the touchpad and click = rightclick

      enable it in the system preferences -> keyboard&mouse -> touchpad (or whatever it's called in english :P)

    25. Re:Old complaint... by pipingguy · · Score: 1

      That doesn't seem to work for me, I just tried it. Maybe I'm a moron.

      But then, I'm kind of a Windows guy (boo, hiss). My love affair with my MacBookPro diminished when my Parallels upgrade borked my XP install totally (and yes, I *did* try the recovery methods found via Google searches and advice on the Parallels site).

      I bought a program called Picturesque which did nice photo effects for awhile, but then it seemed to forget that I had actually PAID for it and it started applying the watermark even after I got a new reg number. Then Picturesque started to repeatedly crash halfway through image processing. That was a big disappointment after I had spent so much time setting everything up. Worse was when it would complete and then I'd find out that it had applied the watermark again. Wait - I actually paid money for that program!

      I'm not a happy Apple camper at this point, but it's still useful for email and web stuff when I travel. At $3000, that's a pretty expensive (but cool-looking) $400 Dell laptop replacement.

    26. Re:Old complaint... by mollymoo · · Score: 1

      Ergonomics is something Apple does well [...]

      You must be thinking of a different Apple to me. A few examples:

      • Mighty Mouse (right-click that requires you lift the other finger).
      • MacBook and (current) desktop keyboards - everybody else abandoned flat-top keys 25 years ago, because indentations provide useful tactile feedback. Without that feedback enabling you to centre you fingers on the keys without looking, touch typing is much harder. Even two-finger typing is harder.
      • Original iMac puck mouse, which provides no tacticle feedback about its orientation.
      --
      Chernobyl 'not a wildlife haven' - BBC News
    27. Re:Old complaint... by IntergalacticWalrus · · Score: 1

      Personally I love how having only one button makes the trackpad completely symmetrical, making its use optimal for both left and right hands. I tend to switch hands often depending on what fits best. And the two-finger-makes-a-right-click mechanism became natural to me after only a few days.

  8. If I were an Apple fan... by not+already+in+use · · Score: 1, Flamebait

    I'd suffer from a severe case of self-loathing...

    --
    Similes are like metaphors
    1. Re:If I were an Apple fan... by cromar · · Score: 1

      You're silly. Shut up now :)

    2. Re:If I were an Apple fan... by Lars+T. · · Score: 1

      I'd suffer from a severe case of self-loathing... Which would be a big improvement for you - so you won't do it because you hate yourself.
      --

      Lars T.

      To the guy who modded me down from perfect to terrible Karma - Apple haters still suck

  9. greed by FredAkbar · · Score: 5, Interesting

    We Apple fans like to see Apple do well, but probably more in terms of selling more products (higher marketshare, becoming more popular in society, etc.) than just higher profits (most of us aren't in it for the money, after all). So for me, one annoying thing Apple does is charge for products or services that could/should be free.

    For example, the new software for the iPod touch is a $20 download. This is the same software that's a free update for the iPhone. Even the new software for the Apple TV is a free upgrade. If I were an iPod touch owner, I'd be pretty offended that I have to pay $20 (well, disregarding free jailbreaking options and whatnot) for an update that iPhone users get for free.

    Remember iTools? The free service that gave you mail, web storage, etc. if you were a Mac user? In July 2002 it was rebranded as .Mac and Apple began charging $100/year for it. I realize that this increases profits (at least short-term), but I often find myself wishing that companies would accept short-term losses if it would mean an overall increase in marketshare and customer satisfaction. If .Mac were free, it could be marketed as yet another advantage of the Mac (in addition to iLife, etc.). Instead, it's an expensive subscription service that many people know nothing about, nor have they any reason to.

    1. Re:greed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      On one level, I agree with you that $20 for iPod firmware upgrade is nickel-and-diming the customers, but you can't compare that to the iPhone and [Apple]TV. iPhone uses a different model than iPod, that is, Apple gets a cut of the subscription from AT&T to deal with upgrades and customer support. [Apple]TV is also used as a storefront for iTunes Store. iPod, OTOH, is a device that does not necessarily interact with Apple's revenue generating services. It's a one-time purchase item that could/might be used to enjoy iTunes media.

      That said, I think $20 is way too much for a set of apps that should be standard. Foregoing that revenue may be better in the long term as customers would purchase Apple devices without a fear of getting left behind.

    2. Re:greed by nuggetman · · Score: 1

      If I were an iPod touch owner, I'd be pretty offended that I have to pay $20 (well, disregarding free jailbreaking options and whatnot) for an update that iPhone users get for free.

      Free, whereas free means "free plus a monthly service charge for cell phone service"

      --
      ...and that's all there is to it.
    3. Re:greed by Phroggy · · Score: 1

      For example, the new software for the iPod touch is a $20 download. This is the same software that's a free update for the iPhone. No it isn't. The new iPhone software adds a few new features to existing applications. The new iPod touch software adds completely new applications that had not previously been available at all. iPhone users get the location-aware update to Maps for free, but iPod touch users didn't have Maps at all.
      --
      $x='S24;r)>63/* h@<5+oZ)32"5cz';$me='phroggy'x$];
      $x=~y+ -xz+\0-Tx+;print$_^chop$me for split'',$x;
    4. Re:greed by Bobartig · · Score: 1

      There are accounting reasons that Apple has to charge for the iPod Touch updates to be in compliance with stuff like Sarbanes Oxley (sp?). Now, it should have been a $5 pack like the Wi-Fi update. People would have still complained, but bought it and moved on. At $20, you just feel gouged. Plus, who's going to want to buy an iPod Touch when this could just happen again in 6 months?

      Yeah, the real answer is that Apple will have released a newer iPod touch, and you'll get left behind anyways. That's the one thing Zune is doing right, which is supporting v.1 customers with everything that the v.2 customers get feature wise.

      --
      This is where I get my recommended daily allowance of "Foot in Mouth."
    5. Re:greed by The+One+and+Only · · Score: 1

      For example, the new software for the iPod touch is a $20 download. This is the same software that's a free update for the iPhone. Even the new software for the Apple TV is a free upgrade. If I were an iPod touch owner, I'd be pretty offended that I have to pay $20 (well, disregarding free jailbreaking options and whatnot) for an update that iPhone users get for free.

      Actually, iPhone users have to pay AT&T a monthly service fee, part of which goes back to Apple in exchange for software upgrades.

      --
      In Repressive Burma, it's not just your connection that dies. slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=314547&cid=20819199
    6. Re:greed by stuboogie · · Score: 1

      Well, they get their monthly service charge for cell phone service whether you upgrade to the latest firmware or not.

      Unless, of course, they are pushing the upgrade to seal up security holes used to unlock the iPhone. Then, they want every user to upgrade.
      With the iPod Touch, there is no incentive for them to give the upgrade away as there is no issue with unlocking.

    7. Re:greed by n8Mills · · Score: 0

      Greed, agreed. I have a coworkers whose iPod Nano software became corrupted somehow, and all that she needed to do was format and re-install. Apparently the software/firmware installer doesn't format the drive before it tries to re-install. The tech support guys didn't tell her to format, and that she'd be charged $100 for them to fix it for her. She had bought it less than 6 months prior. Granted, tech-dumb consumers just want things to work as advertised and don't want to troubleshoot, but you should warranty a product well when it's overpriced.

    8. Re:greed by ncryptd · · Score: 1

      If I were an iPod touch owner, I'd be pretty offended that I have to pay $20

      I wouldn't be offended, because I never expect a free upgrade to the latest and greatest for anything else -- why should I expect it for an iPod? My car lacks the GPS system of the latest model, but it's not Ford's job to upgrade my car for free. It's awesome that they've chosen to upgrade the AppleTV and iPhone -- but in the case of the iPod touch (adding functionality that in no way existed in the first version), they're under no obligation to provide the upgrades to previous purchasers. I fail to see why people hold Apple to a different standard on this...

    9. Re:greed by the+pickle · · Score: 1

      For example, the new software for the iPod touch is a $20 download. This is the same software that's a free update for the iPhone. Even the new software for the Apple TV is a free upgrade. If I were an iPod touch owner, I'd be pretty offended that I have to pay $20 (well, disregarding free jailbreaking options and whatnot) for an update that iPhone users get for free.

      In case you didn't get the memo, the iPod Touch is not being accounted for on Apple's balance sheet on a subscription basis. The Apple TV and the iPhone are. Thanks to the Sarbanes-Oxley Act, Apple has to charge for upgrades like this when they aren't accounting for product sales on a subscription basis.

      In other words, you should be blaming Congress for passing flawed legislation instead of blaming Apple for charging you $20. (I agree with you that $20 seems a bit steep, but Apple *is* required by law, as I understand it, to charge for the update.)

      p

    10. Re:greed by toddestan · · Score: 2, Insightful

      As far as I can tell, the Sarbanes-Oxley Act and Apple charging for software upgrades don't have anything to do with each other. Which makes sense, as it seems plenty of other companies seem to be able to distribute software upgrades for free. So unless you can point out exactly why Apple must charge $20 for this upgrade, I'm going to have to call BS.

    11. Re:greed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I dont live in America, why are they charging me $20?

    12. Re:greed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Software updates for iPhone users and AppleTV owners are not for free as you believe. Apple gets a part of the monthly subscription fees that iPhone users pay to their mobile network provider. AppleTV owners pay for their content and Apple gets a part of this as well. So these customers pay anyway I've they get updates or not.

      But generally I agree with you. It's an industry standard that software updates are included in the purchase price for the software for a period of time at least. Image you would have to pay for updates of WindowsXP/Vista or Mac OS X! Many others give their online (live) experiences for free.

      But Apple is changing this more and more because it can. The customer satisfaction is high so they try to earn as much for their doings as they can. Its sad customers first have to be unsatisfied and not buying Apple products anymore to change this back.

    13. Re:greed by HungWeiLo · · Score: 1

      I noticed this evening that the iPod touch (both 8GB and 16GB models) have now been reduced by $20.

      --
      There are a huge number of yeast infections in this county. Probably because we're downriver from the bread factory.
    14. Re:greed by stewbacca · · Score: 1

      Sarbanes-Oxley is a joke. I have to change my password every 60 days instead of 90 days. Yeah, that makes my computer more secure! Especially since I change it from 1Password to Password1 every 60 days now.

    15. Re:greed by the+pickle · · Score: 1

      Because Apple *does* live in America, and that law applies to US companies.

      p

    16. Re:greed by the+pickle · · Score: 1

      Ask, and ye shall receive:

      http://blogs.cnet.com/8301-13509_1-9850999-20.html

      The Sarbanes-Oxley connection is in having to re-state their past financial results if they give away the upgrade for products that aren't accounted for on a subscription basis.

      p

  10. The stock price? by Orig_Club_Soda · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I LOVE the stock price. I bought my stock 7 years ago and its one of the best in my portfolio.

    1. Re:The stock price? by Volante3192 · · Score: 1

      Yea, what's really bugging them is the hit it's taken since the start of the new year. News Flash, lots of company stock has been taking hits lately. Wait it out, day-traders!

    2. Re:The stock price? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Day traders make money on the highs and the lows. It's mostly the long positions who give a damn.

  11. Well there are some problems with Apple by LWATCDR · · Score: 1

    But nothing but the battery really bugs me.
    I would like to see Apple come out with a lower cost notebook.
    I would like to see Apple come out with a desktop that doesn't cost a fortune and lets you upgrade the graphics card.

    Oh and iTunes needs to be all DRM free.

    --
    See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
    1. Re:Well there are some problems with Apple by Scrameustache · · Score: 1

      iTunes needs to be all DRM free. It sure does, but that's not up to Apple.
      --

      You can't take the sky from me...

    2. Re:Well there are some problems with Apple by falconwolf · · Score: 1

      I would like to see Apple come out with a lower cost notebook.

      I'd like to see Apple come out with a larger laptop. I once saw a Windows laptop with a 21" LCD and wanted one from Apple.

      I would like to see Apple come out with a desktop that doesn't cost a fortune and lets you upgrade the graphics card.

      Same here.

      Falcon
    3. Re:Well there are some problems with Apple by LWATCDR · · Score: 1

      'I'd like to see Apple come out with a larger laptop. I once saw a Windows laptop with a 21" LCD and wanted one from Apple."
      If you have a 21" wide lap I really wouldn't want to sit next to you on a plane.
      I would think that a 21" wide laptop would have a pretty small audience.

      --
      See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
  12. The lack of good head less desktop and a $1500 lap by Joe+The+Dragon · · Score: 0

    The lack of good head less desktop and a $1500 laptop that has intel on board video.

    The mini is over priced and under powered.

    The imacs are AIO with weak video cards for gameing and the screens are not meant for pro work.

    The mac pro is nice but starting at $2300 is high to get a desktop with a real video card.

    The older ppc macs started at the $1500 price level.

    Why can't there be a desktop with DESKTOP hardware not laptop hardware as with the imac and mac mini for $600 - $1900?

    you can replace the mini with this give on board video and a pci-e slots to keep costs down or just put a low end video in the low end system.

    With good video cards maybe even SLI / CrossFire with 2 - 4+ gb of ram with a good choice of cpus you can have a nice mid-range pro system and good gameing system.

    The mac pro is meant for high level pro work that replaced the older PPC macs that coasted $500 less.

    you can keep the mini but push the price down to $500 and give a dvd/rw drive.

  13. FTFF. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And the dock. And drag-and-drop. And all the rest of the stupid crappy broken-interface stuff that OS X has been packed with from day one. The interface has got slightly worse with every iteration. Why can't we have OS X's speed and robustness with OS 9's slick, intuitive, efficient, and consistent interface?

  14. The attitude that "almost but not quite" is good by antifoidulus · · Score: 5, Interesting

    enough.

    I use macs at home and at work, and they are great machines....most of the time. Maybe I'm a perfectionist, maybe I'm just expecting too much, but so many of Apple's tools are great most of the time. However they have flaws that make them annoying to unusable in certain situations, and at least the Apple of late seems unwilling to fix them.
    Example: Airport extreme with airdisk. When the thing is working it is perfect, however, in my experience the disconnects are really annoying, and it disconnects much more than my airport express ever did. Also, when, out of the box, I tried to bridge it with said express it went into infinite reboot mode till I did a factory reset. Again, in theory a great product but when I pay a premium for Apple products I expect it work right 99% of the time, not 90%.

    Their server products are another great example of how Apple's products, on the surface anyway, are great, but in practice it tends to fall apart. We are rolling out an LDAP system and it has been nothing but problems. Apple has done a seemingly good job of making a really slick open directory server tool, but there are just too many bugs to make it worth while. A particularly nasty one, that has been reported to Apple but Apple refuses to fix, is that for some international users certain actions will change the time zone to Cupertino, which can wreak havoc with systems. Come on Apple, we paid a lot of money for this system, the least you can do is get the time zones correct. The server also has almost no meaningful error messages(took me forever to figure out the effects I was observing was related to the time zone bug, the Workgroup manager went on its happy way, authenticated me, then didn't do anything afterwards, not a single error message). Similar problems with getting Remote Desktop to work with Directory authentication. All I get is a "Authentication failed" message with no additional information either on the target machine or the server! Come on Apple, you went through a lot of effort to develop this system, but all that is wasted if you don't give me proper error messages!

    Ditto with iPhone content management, the system works great 90% of the time, but the inability to give the user more flexibility with content management can lead to frustration and hacks that require playlists of playlists......

    I don't know why Apple refuses to address these issues. None of them seem like they would be incredibly hard/expensive to fix, but Apple just seems to have the attitude that if it works in the general cases, there is no need to investigate the extremes and fix whatever problems may arise.

  15. accidental damage warranty by stormguard2099 · · Score: 1

    I know of several people who have decided against apple because they just didn't feel comfortable without accidental damage covered under warranty. It seems like apple could have something beyond applecare that could be purchased to cover this so those who don't want to pay extra don't have to.

    --
    http://greenobyl.com/ please.... think of the children!!
    1. Re:accidental damage warranty by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      its called home contents insurance

    2. Re:accidental damage warranty by falconwolf · · Score: 1

      I know of several people who have decided against apple because they just didn't feel comfortable without accidental damage covered under warranty. It seems like apple could have something beyond applecare that could be purchased to cover this so those who don't want to pay extra don't have to.

      I once had a Windows laptop and when the LCD cracked the OEM said they didn't cover it, even though I paid extra for an extended service plan. They knew what model it was but still couldn't be bothered to give a realistic estimate on how much it would be to replace the LCD, I was just told between $300 and $1200. It was then suggested I file a report with my car insurance.

      Falcon
  16. The lack of upgradeability of the freaking Mac Pro by Draconix · · Score: 1

    The Mac Pro is less than 2 years old. The NVidia 8800 GT PC version works great in it under Windows, from what I've heard. Yet, Apple was either too lazy/incompetent or outright malicious to make the Mac version of that card compatible with older Mac Pros. I'm stuck with a choice between keeping my godawful NV 7300, or upgrading to a mid-range ATI cart, or an overpriced, extremely hardware-failure prone ATI X1900. "Weak" does not even begin to describe this situation.

    --
    By reading this you acknowledge that you have read it.
  17. What are you talking about? by 2nd+Post! · · Score: 2, Informative

    A MacBook starts at $1,100.

    What laptop are you looking at that starts at $2000?

    1. Re:What are you talking about? by Wdomburg · · Score: 1

      One would presume he's talking about the one that starts at $2000 (the Macbook Pro) rather than the one that starts at $1100. :)

      (There are an awful lot of people who prefer screens bigger than 13")

    2. Re:What are you talking about? by Bastardchyld · · Score: 1

      This is probably true, however it is dishonest to say that laptops start at 2000 when it is actually the MacBook Pro that starts at 1999, and there is actually other models of laptops that start at 1099.

      --
      $diff terrorists hippies
      $
      $rm -rf *terrorists *hippies
    3. Re:What are you talking about? by p0tat03 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      And honestly, if you're looking for a $600 laptop you REALLY shouldn't be comparing with MacBook Pros, or any high-end laptop like that. Apple has never made secret that it builds only mid-high end machinery, not low-end budget computers.

      I've been moving my family, friends, and gf to Macs for a while now, and they're much happier than they've ever been. Between $1100 and $600 you get a heck of a lot more performance (not always relevant to them), but the peace of mind of not being subject to malware, trojans, and not having to buy an AV kit, that's worth the price tag difference alone - all that extra hardware is just icing on the cake.

    4. Re:What are you talking about? by VGPowerlord · · Score: 1

      Apple has never made secret that it builds only mid-high end machinery, not low-end budget computers.


      Except for Desktops, which has the Mac Mini as a budget computer. For that matter, in certain respects, the iMac is also a budget computer.
      --
      GLaDOS for President 2016! "Well here we are again. It's always such a pleasure." -- GLaDOS, 2011
    5. Re:What are you talking about? by Myopic · · Score: 1

      Mmmmm hmmmm. Okay, well then he was mistaken in claiming they 'start' at $2000. They start at $1100, that much is clear. For people who prefer screens bigger than 13", there are models higher up on the scale.

      So, again, the guy was wrong in that claim.

      Me, I got the 17" MBP, and I sold my firstborn to pay for it. Actually, I just saved for a couple months.

    6. Re:What are you talking about? by prockcore · · Score: 1

      Except the Mini, and the G4 iBooks which were $800 and dropping before Apple killed it.

    7. Re:What are you talking about? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There are an awful lot of people who prefer screens bigger than 13"


      And in my opinion, what they want then isn't a laptop. I have a 12" iBook, and I love it. Just the right side for carrying around with me everywhere. A friend of mine (who previously had a 12" iBook same as mine, and had complained about the small screen) bought a 17" Toshiba laptop a while back, complaining that. Within a week he was complaining about how heavy it is and awkward to carry around. About a month ago, he bought himself a 13" MacBook.

      If you want a laptop, you get the smallest available while still being usable. If you want a larger screen for doing real work on, then have a desktop and do the real work on that, using the laptop only when you do really need to work on the go.

      Yes, I know that some people for whatever reason feel that they really do need such a large screen on the go. I still think that in most cases, it's not necessary.
    8. Re:What are you talking about? by jollyreaper · · Score: 1

      I've been moving my family, friends, and gf to Macs for a while now, and they're much happier than they've ever been. Between $1100 and $600 you get a heck of a lot more performance (not always relevant to them), but the peace of mind of not being subject to malware, trojans, and not having to buy an AV kit, that's worth the price tag difference alone - all that extra hardware is just icing on the cake. Based on the mac site, I only saw small-format screens for the ibooks, the pro was needed to get into something with a nice 15.4.

      Typical zealotry for my original comment to be downmodded so harshly. It sucks that my next computer is going to be a mac, it feels like I'm switching my vacation plans from Club Med to Jonestown.
      --
      Kwisatz Haderach
      Sell the spice to CHOAM
      This Mahdi took Shaddam's Throne
    9. Re:What are you talking about? by mdwh2 · · Score: 1

      I've been moving my family, friends, and gf to Macs for a while now, and they're much happier than they've ever been. Between $1100 and $600 you get a heck of a lot more performance (not always relevant to them), but the peace of mind of not being subject to malware, trojans

      Please, not this myth again. Yes, they're probably happier because they think they'd be plagued by malware and trojans, and they think this extra performance is useful (even though as you admit, it's usually not relevant for most people).

      Unless you're into playing the latest games, the lower end of laptops are more than enough - the amount of performance these days is not "budget". *checks Apple site* But now I see that the MacBooks only have the same basic Intel integrated graphics as the low end laptops that are half the price! So what is this extra performance you speak of that is so relevant for average users?

      People I thought I was mad for allowing my parents get a Windows laptop for their first PC - apparentely I should have insisted they spend hundreds more and get a Mac. Yet it's one year on, and not a problem.

    10. Re:What are you talking about? by mdwh2 · · Score: 1

      Plenty of people have laptops that they use around the house - they don't need it ultra small, but they also don't want a massive bulky PC either (e.g., they might want something to use in the living room / garden / bed, plus there are other advantages such as taking it round a friend's house, or taking it to be repaired - laptops aren't just for people using computers whilst travelling).

      Of course the point is choice. If people want 13", they choose it, if they want 14" or 17", they get that model instead. Oh wait, with Apple they can't.

    11. Re:What are you talking about? by Wdomburg · · Score: 1

      He never said all Apple laptops started at that price. I personally would have been more specific, though.

      It still stands that if you want anything but a tiny screen (comparatively, x86 laptops are typically 14.1" or 15.4" with 17" being more common) you have to shell out for the "pro" line. You get a good machine for the price, but you don't get much choice.

      As a strategy, it's not bad. They get to upsell people into a higher cost, higher margin unit than they might have otherwise purchase. It also helps to foster a strong aftermarket for older generation hardware, which encourages the more affluent among their users to sell and upgrade every generation.

      They do the same thing with the desktop segment - no low end (a $600 machine doesn't qualify), no proper middle ground between their entry level and premium.

      My favorite analogy is car brands. Dell would be like GM - a few different brands serving different market segments. You have your volume brands (e.g. Chevy, Dimension/Inspiron), performance (Pontiac, XPS), upscale performance (Cadillac, Alienware), commercial (GMC, OptiPlex/Latitude), et cetera. Apple is one of the luxury manufacturers. For Apple, pick one of the luxury brands. Say Lexus. You can get an IS for $30k, but if you prefer a more roomy sport sedan you have to move up to the GS models which start at $44k.

    12. Re:What are you talking about? by Wdomburg · · Score: 1

      Just because someone doesn't want the kind of laptop you prefer doesn't mean they don't want a laptop. People have different priorities and use patterns. There are plenty of reasons to want a large screen. Consider:

      1) Desktop replacement - no wiring, tucks away when not in use, can be packed for occasional travel.

      2) Gaming rig - nice big screen, can be taken to LAN parties easily.

      3) Work machine - usually used at a fixed location, but can be taken to conference rooms and customer sites if needed.

      Just a few off the top of my head. Preferences are just that - preferences. I plan on getting a UMPC (likely an 8.9" Eee when they're available) but that would be mostly for when I go cycling or personal travel. No way in hell would I want that for extended use though, like when I go to customer sites, conferences or one of the data centers.

    13. Re:What are you talking about? by Wdomburg · · Score: 1

      A $600 desktop hasn't been budget for many many years. Especially when the keyboard and mouse will set you back another hundred. Even the original G4 model (at $499) was only budget compared to other Apple machines.

      And the last generation iBooks had an MSRP of $999 for the 12" models, not $800. Not particularly expensive, but still priced well above the entry level models in the PC market.

    14. Re:What are you talking about? by arminw · · Score: 1

      ....but still priced well above the entry level models.....

      Give only one good reason why Apple should get into the low profit rock bottom profit killing entry level computer business? If you can't afford a shiny brand new Mac, look around on ebay. A two year old G5 will likely be still better than a rock bottom new Windows system.

      --
      All theory is gray
    15. Re:What are you talking about? by Wdomburg · · Score: 1

      I never said they should. As I pointed out in this reply, not competing in the low end market is part of a sound business strategy.

      As for whether a used Mac would be better than a new Windows system at the same price, that depends on the needs of the individual. I'll take the Windows system and install Linux on it every time. My mother would just take the Windows system. She has absolutely no interest in learning a brand new interface and likely wouldn't gain much from doing so.

  18. Fan here, but no "fanboy" by Raineer · · Score: 1

    I like Apple products, but not in the cult-following sort of way. What bugs me, specifically, is their attitude towards Leopard. I understand a released OS having some bugs, I think everyone does, but when the bugs are not acknowledged by such an allegedly-wonderful company...it's a bit too much. Why does Leopard have such a hard time remembering my network settings? Why can I not place the desired attachment/network/password into a "location"? Why does it disconnect and then disappear from the list to where I have to manually add it? I don't like to broadcast my SSID, but Leopard should be able to remember what network I was using without me having to add it every time I disconnect.

  19. partnering with AT&T by StandardDeviant · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I hated SWB/SBC (for many good reasons too lengthy for a comment box) and AT&T hasn't done anything to lessen that hatred over time. No matter how many features the iWhatever may have, even a footnote of involvement with AT&T is an instant buzz-kill. I really don't care what mitigating circumstances or defenses might be brought up here, AT&T is an instant "NO!" in my book.

    Compared to that, my disgruntlement with their video hardware across the line is a minor thing. The exact nature of that disgruntlement depends on the model in question. Suffice to say that apple has my heart in the portable sphere for offering well spec'd, decently priced, and well-integrated portable Unix with their powerbooks/mac pros but I really wish they had something in the mid-range desktop line that wasn't an iMac (the mini is a bit too constraining, already have a nice monitor rendering the imacs moot, and the pro is far too over-spec'd/expensive for my needs). I'm half-way considering building a hackintosh for my next desktop. (It's either that or ubuntu most likely. Vista is right out.)

    1. Re:partnering with AT&T by VariableGHz · · Score: 1

      I really want to know a big long list of why you hate AT&T. I tried to find your e-mail address, but it's not shown publicly. If you could, send me an e-mail and let me know sometime?

      Thanks a bunch :)

  20. And which people did they talk to? by hellfire · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Batteries? This is a huge complaint by a large portion of the user base. The problem is that you didn't have to go to Macworld Expo to find this out... cheezy reporting.

    Windows Vista? Ummmm this is entirely misrepresented here. Yes, some people might be upset that they have to plunk down $200 for vista, but think about it. That's not a problem with apple and no one focuses that gripe at apple. That's all the fault of Windows being way too expensive. It's that or they start bundling windows and making the mac $200 more, which I don't want. Apple has lots of great programs that are comparable to most windows programs.

    Stock price? Everyone's stock price is hurting right now! We are a month from a recession, the stock market is tanking, and a stock going down after an expo is not unusual, in fact it happens a lot. It's called profit taking. Investors ride the short term wave of hype, and when the hype is done, they get off the wave as fast as they can. After the expo there's no more momentum keeping the stock moving upward quickly.

    Ask a real apple fan what cheeses him. Like for example that A2DP isn't supported on the iphone, or any iPod. That's my #1 beef right now right after the battery issue.

    --

    "All great wisdom is contained in .signature files"

    1. Re:And which people did they talk to? by evilbessie · · Score: 1

      You can't be a month from recession, as the definition is 2 consecutive quarters of negative growth, that isn't happening in the states right now so it's not a recession.

    2. Re:And which people did they talk to? by revlayle · · Score: 2, Insightful

      OEM versions of Windows are WAY WAY cheaper than $200, you know? (which is what Apple would be paying for the OS if it came pre-installed) - they could charge $50 extra and probably break even or even make a tenny-weeny profit. Even if they did that, they would probably still charge an extra $200 and laugh to the bank.

    3. Re:And which people did they talk to? by Nebu · · Score: 1

      Windows Vista? Ummmm this is entirely misrepresented here. Yes, some people might be upset that they have to plunk down $200 for vista, but think about it. That's not a problem with apple and no one focuses that gripe at apple. That's all the fault of Windows being way too expensive. It's that or they start bundling windows and making the mac $200 more, which I don't want.
      OEM versions of Windows are WAY WAY cheaper than $200, you know? (which is what Apple would be paying for the OS if it came pre-installed) - they could charge $50 extra and probably break even or even make a tenny-weeny profit. Even if they did that, they would probably still charge an extra $200 and laugh to the bank.

      Mod parent up. People who looking for alternatives to Windows typically like having lots of choices, and so the grand-parent's implication that Apple shouldn't sell a Vista bundle because he doesn't it want it is somewhat hypocritical. There's no reason Apple couldn't a package which includes Vista, and another package which doesn't. It would make a segment of Apple's customers happier, and it would make Microsoft happier. I'm guessing the main reasons Apple doesn't do it are:

      • It would seem to contradict their ad campaign which claims that no one wants Vista.
      • It would imply that Apple has an "official" hardware configuration for running Vista, and it might seem slower compared to, say, an HP or Dell hardware configuration for running Vista.
    4. Re:And which people did they talk to? by batura · · Score: 1

      Besides the fact that installing Windows on a Mac is not really Apple's problem and it was nice of them to provide the capability, ou are also assuming that Microsoft is open to giving Apple an OEM license.

    5. Re:And which people did they talk to? by testerus · · Score: 1

      There is an alternative to shove money down microsofts throat: try if CrossOver Mac runs the application you need.
      Version 7, that is expected within a few weeks, should support even more apps, because it is build on a recent wine.

    6. Re:And which people did they talk to? by Rudolf · · Score: 1

      OEM versions of Windows are WAY WAY cheaper than $200, you know? (which is what Apple would be paying for the OS if it came pre-installed)

      If I recall correctly, Microsoft provides support for off-the-shelf Windows sales, but OEMs for Windows must provide the tech support - Microsoft doesn't. I'm sure Apple doesn't want to take that on.

    7. Re:And which people did they talk to? by mabhatter654 · · Score: 1

      Apple shipping Windows + Boot camp is illegal under the Windows OEM guidelines. Microsoft offers no option except full price for "legal" dual boot situations. Even the mighty Dell hasn't been able to break that contract line. (no Ubuntu/Windows or Red Hat/Win Server for you!)

    8. Re:And which people did they talk to? by revlayle · · Score: 1

      I did NOT know that... well, I see why that couldn't happen without a bigger fee now.

  21. Re:The lack of good head less desktop and a $1500 by stubear · · Score: 1

    I always thought Apple killing the Cube was a bad idea. I'd love to see a new Cube sized Mac that has the basic innards of a Mac Mini but that allows me to swap the hard drive and video card if I want. Oh, and give ma a wireless keyboard with the numeric keypad. What the hell were they thinking when they axed the keypad on their new wireless keyboards?

  22. Lock-in by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Lock-in. It feels even more confining in the Apple world than in the Microsoft world. (Pre-XP Microsoft world, that is. I suspect it's comparable to Vista.)

  23. the scam that is the I-tunes gift card by BlueshiftVFX · · Score: 2, Funny

    So I purchased an I-tunes gift card for $20 the other day expecting that with that alone I could actually buy some stuff from I-Store. On the packaging for the card it states that you can not refund or return the card. Ok, well it shouldn't be a problem, why would I need to do that? so I go to the I-store to get some stuff and low and behold now It needs a credit card!

    Why the Frak would I have bought an Frickin I-card if I had a fricken credit card! nowhere on the card does it say this! In the I-help it says that it is possible to sign up with out one but where? how? there's no way to do it!

    This is a pile of I-BS and is a I-scam.

    I am not really a Mac fan, though I am a user. and this I-pisses me off about ever being a fricken I-fan. oh but there so easy to use and so friendly! pretentious BS.

    1. Re:the scam that is the I-tunes gift card by RedFive · · Score: 3, Informative

      You can redeem an iTune gift card without a credit card.

      http://www.apple.com/support/itunes/store/giftcard/

      --
      RedFive jedi_knight111@hotmail.com
    2. Re:the scam that is the I-tunes gift card by reidconti · · Score: 1

      Your rant is a bit hard to follow, but I assume what you're saying is that you need a credit card in order to setup an account on the iTunes music store, before you can redeem the gift card?

      Interesting. Makes sense, I guess -- I mean, I know this is how they make sure you're not buying tunes (even when paying for them) from an iTMS in a foreign country. I've had an Apple account for a long time, which I guess has a CC linked to it; as I've used it for maybe $30-$40 in purchases over the years. I guess the Coca-Cola giveaways needed you to already have a valid account, too?

      I've never had anything malicious happen to my credit card as a result of being used on the Apple store, but I certainly understand people wanting to be able to buy tunes without having an online account with yet another company. Damn website accounts for the most trivial things are the bane of my existence.

    3. Re:the scam that is the I-tunes gift card by BlueshiftVFX · · Score: 1

      Thanks for the Link, I'll check that out tonight.

      and here I thought I was supposed to hit the "pay" button or some silly nonsense. sheesh, they should perhaps mention this somewhere in the i-help, I guess I am just not i-teligent. hahaa See I can put i's infront of everything too! hehehe!

      But seriously thanks for the link.

  24. You're forgetting resale... by MacDork · · Score: 1

    When the laptop starts at $2000 and has the same upgrade cycle, that's when baby jebus starts crying.

    Macs last longer and have far better resale value. It costs me about $500/yr to stay in a high end Apple laptop. That's two trips to Pizza Hut a month. Easily worth it.

    1. Re:You're forgetting resale... by Budenny · · Score: 1

      That's right, they are integrated. Besides, they have better components. They use better processors, more expensive and better quality memory, that's why you get less of it, because its better, and they don't use any old disk drives, they use premium ones. And their graphics cards are better too. That's why they cost more. You get what you pay for. Oh, and their optical drives are very high class premium drives too, none of this cheap OEM crap. And I forgot those cases. Those are premium cases.

      Did I say they're like a BMW?

    2. Re:You're forgetting resale... by MacDork · · Score: 1

      They use better processors

      Spare me your sarcasm... $500/yr is quite a bit more than his $200/yr PC expenditure, but I'm sure I could do that on the consumer end of Apple's product spectrum. Time is a priority for me, so a faster laptop is worth the extra money. If your time isn't a priority for you, feel free to buy slower hardware and save your money for something else.

  25. Re:The attitude that "almost but not quite" is goo by earnest+murderer · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I don't know why Apple refuses to address these issues. None of them seem like they would be incredibly hard/expensive to fix, but Apple just seems to have the attitude that if it works in the general cases, there is no need to investigate the extremes and fix whatever problems may arise. I think that for the most part... "You already paid for it, why should we do any more." Apple just doesn't fix shit unless they've got egg on their face. Pretty much security and catastrophic bugs. Everything else waits for the next version.

    I don't like Vista (still run XP on most of my systems) but at least Microsoft documents their bugs and work arounds instead of pretending nothing is wrong.

    On the other hand, Apple is cheap. A 130 dollar OS and 80 bucks for a suite of tools for total noob's isn't a bad price.

    But I'd pay $400 for an Ultimate edition that worked.
    --
    Platform advocacy is like choosing a favorite severely developmentally disabled child.
  26. Re:The attitude that "almost but not quite" is goo by Hobb3s · · Score: 1

    I'm totally on board with you here. I look after a contingent of 15 Mac's and Several Xserves and Xraids, and my primary issue is with their software/hardware error reporting. I just today had to replace a power supply on one of my xserves.. after more than a week of research to figure out where the problem of spontaneous reboots was coming from. According to the hardware monitoring, the power supply was A-ok, and according to the system logs I had a random numbered error with no reference on apple's site anywhere. Their official response was "bring it into an apple certified dealer for service" (because apparently I'm incapable of using a screw driver) ..long story short.. I traced it down, and replaced the power supply, now all is well. But their support.. needs work.

  27. Attitude... by rueger · · Score: 4, Insightful

    What strange and pointless article. Macs have all sorts of well documented deficiencies in either hardware or design, and even the most loyal fanbois will usually acknowledge them.

    I'll still argue that the biggest weaknesses with Macs is the "we have decided what you need, and that's exactly what you get" attitude. Regardless of how much one may love Apple design, it still remains that one size does not fit all, and a lot of Apple's decisions work against people who have every good reason to do things in another way.

    To wit - my preference for a Delete key instead of dragging files to a trash icon is not a weakness on my part, it's a more than reasonable preference. Regardless of all the keyboard options and such, there are many times when I simply prefer to press Delete.

    Of course Vista is no better, and wrestling it into submission can also be frustrating, but I have heard few Vista users trying to argue that its deficiencies are in fact strengths.

    1. Re:Attitude... by revscat · · Score: 3, Informative

      What strange and pointless article. Macs have all sorts of well documented deficiencies in either hardware or design, and even the most loyal fanbois will usually acknowledge them.

      I am coming to believe that the rabid fanboi is a mythological figure. I have never once actually encountered such a person.

      To wit - my preference for a Delete key instead of dragging files to a trash icon is not a weakness on my part, it's a more than reasonable preference. Regardless of all the keyboard options and such, there are many times when I simply prefer to press Delete.

      Try hitting Cmd-Delete.

    2. Re:Attitude... by e4g4 · · Score: 1

      my preference for a Delete key instead of dragging files to a trash icon Have you tried apple + Delete? Works rather well for me.
      --
      The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources. - Albert Einstein
    3. Re:Attitude... by Poorcku · · Score: 1

      http://youtube.com/watch?v=F4mySAH53AU

      and watch some of his clips....you'll change your mind about that :)

      --
      I take my children to see Madonna(..), but I never for once ever thought I was in the same business.Chris Rea.
    4. Re:Attitude... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I am coming to believe that the rabid fanboi is a mythological figure. I have never once actually encountered such a person

      Welcome to the internet!

      Based on your comment you might be intersted in this site! http://www.learnthenet.com/

      Welcome aboard!

    5. Re:Attitude... by LLKrisJ · · Score: 1

      Of course Vista is no better, and wrestling it into submission can also be frustrating, but I have heard few Vista users trying to argue that its deficiencies are in fact strengths. You should at least back up a statement like that with a good example. Otherwise it remains just a cheap shot I think...
    6. Re:Attitude... by Poromenos1 · · Score: 1

      That's nothing, at least you can cmd+backspace. What drives me crazy is the little canceling "X" in the move/copy/delete operations. In any other OS, it's accessible with esc, enter, or alt+f4. In MacOS, there's no keyboard access to it. If you discover you started deleting a huge directory by mistake, you have to scramble for the mouse, aim at this teeny tiny button and click.

      And don't even get me started on the lack of keyboard accelerators. It seems that Apple doesn't think many of its users prefer the keyboard (which might very well be the case)...

      --
      Send email from the afterlife! Write your e-will at Dead Man's Switch.
    7. Re:Attitude... by leenks · · Score: 1

      To wit - my preference for a Delete key instead of dragging files to a trash icon is not a weakness on my part, it's a more than reasonable preference. Regardless of all the keyboard options and such, there are many times when I simply prefer to press Delete.

      Is it really too hard to press command-delete? I don't think I have EVER dragged stuff to the trash to delete it.

    8. Re:Attitude... by HumanEmulator · · Score: 1

      I'll still argue that the biggest weaknesses with Macs is the "we have decided what you need, and that's exactly what you get" attitude. ... To wit - my preference for a Delete key instead of dragging files to a trash icon is not a weakness on my part, it's a more than reasonable preference. Regardless of all the keyboard options and such, there are many times when I simply prefer to press Delete.

      Press the [command] key and hit Delete when a file is selected. It will be moved to the Trash. (And you'll hear the Trash can sound to confirm that something has been trashed.)

      If you stick with the assumption there's only going to be one way to do something, you probably won't seriously look for an alternative. This is a large part of what keeps Windows on top. (Not just against Macs, but against Linux and other OSes that have come before.)

    9. Re:Attitude... by NMerriam · · Score: 3, Informative

      In MacOS, there's no keyboard access to it...And don't even get me started on the lack of keyboard accelerators. It seems that Apple doesn't think many of its users prefer the keyboard (which might very well be the case)...


      Command-period has been the "cancel" keyboard shortcut on Mac OS for over 20 years, I suspect it will work where you're talking about with the progress bar.

      And check out "full keyboard access" stuff in the system preferences, you'll find that not only can you use the keyboard for menu activation and such, you can also create your own custom shortcuts for almost any operation in any application you like. The keyboarding capabilities of the Mac OS are superior, overall, to pretty much any other system I can think of. Add on Quicksilver or something similar and it can get downright crazy how much you can accomplish in arbitrary applications without touching a mouse.

      If you're somewhat new to the Mac, I recommend picking up one of David Pogue's books, he provides a great mixture of theory and practical information about how things are designed to work.
      --
      Recursive: Adj. See Recursive.
    10. Re:Attitude... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Try hitting Cmd-Delete.

      This is the kind of obscure keyboard shortcut that only a truly twisted mind could come up with!

      I mean, why can't they put it in the menu right next to the "Move to Trash" menuitem? Wait, they did? Damn!
    11. Re:Attitude... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      To wit - my preference for a Delete key instead of dragging files to a trash icon is not a weakness on my part, it's a more than reasonable preference. Regardless of all the keyboard options and such, there are many times when I simply prefer to press Delete.

      Command-backspace is the way to do this.

    12. Re:Attitude... by Yahweh+Doesn't+Exist · · Score: 3, Insightful

      it annoys me that the vast majority of "problems" people have with Macs are in fact non-existent. they are just too ignorant.

      which is fair enough if they've only had Windows experience so far. but so many seem in such a hurry to scream and rant. if they just took the time to learn the "Mac" way of doing things or asked questions rather than bitching it would be better.

      when I got my first Mac I loved learning all the new things. I'd think "it would be great if I could do..." then spent some time searching. more often than not it was there. maybe not "obvious", but powerful nonetheless if you put a little effort in, e.g. there's no reason why Apple-Shift-4 should save a copy of a selected screen area as a file on the Desktop, but it does, and it rules.

    13. Re:Attitude... by kklein · · Score: 1

      The keyboarding capabilities of the Mac OS are superior, overall, to pretty much any other system I can think of.

      Indeed. I have been back on the platform for about 6 months and the biggest thing that drives me crazy when I use Windows now is how much I have to use the mouse.

      ...Which is ironic, because one of the main reasons I moved to Windows in 1999 was because I was sick of having to use the mouse for every damned thing.

      Also, the MacOS keyboard commands are a hell of a lot easier to remember. Cmd-W for closing a window. Cmd-Q for quitting an application... Now when I'm back on Windows I just keep going "Dammit! Why is this Alt-F4??? What is that even supposed to MEAN???"

      The only one that drives me crazy, though, and it used to drive me crazy under System 8 as well, is the ridiculous "hit 'enter' to rename a file" nonsense. That should open the file, plain and simple.

    14. Re:Attitude... by Ash-Fox · · Score: 1

      and watch some of his clips....you'll change your mind about that :)
      He's not too bad, I've encountered far worse. Shame they didn't put up youtube videos so I could show you.
      --
      Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
    15. Re:Attitude... by Ash-Fox · · Score: 1

      I am coming to believe that the rabid fanboi is a mythological figure. I have never once actually encountered such a person.
      I find this one rather funny:
      There are lots more of these on Slashdot, but they're difficult to find because the majority of posts have been modded down to -1 for obvious reasons. This guy used to troll heavily anyone that criticized the slightest thing about Apple.
      --
      Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
    16. Re:Attitude... by Cloud+K · · Score: 1

      I am coming to believe that the rabid fanboi is a mythological figure. I have never once actually encountered such a person. http://forums.macrumors.com/

      Post a problem/criticism... and watch the denial flow. I made a post there about my new iMac overheating if I try to play a game on it and the first answer was that I shouldn't be pushing the hardware like that and shouldn't be trying to play games on it as I'm "not part of their target market".

      To be fair, most of the answers after that were helpful and constructive.
  28. Memory leak? What? by caveat · · Score: 0

    Most "power" users I know can get about a day a gigabyte (RAM) out of Leopard. I get two to three days out of my old PowerMac with 1.75GB of RAM. A friend of mine has 3GB in a Mac Pro and he can get 3-4 days before a required reboot. My boss has 2GB in his iMac, and left it on during the holidays. He couldn't login to it to reboot when he got back after a week.

    Uhhh...I have 1.5 gigs in an old MDD G4, I'm definitely a Power User, and my last reboot was only for the new QuickTime, after 21 days up I had ~750 megs completely unallocated (green in Activity Monitor) if I closed everything.

    --

    Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. - Aldous Huxley
  29. What bugs Apple fans about Apple? by petehead · · Score: 1

    I think that the biggest problem with Apple is that they are so impatient to change America.

  30. It's a love/hate relationship by Glendale2x · · Score: 1

    I love the presentation and attention to detail in their products - software and hardware. I hate how that if it doesn't do what Apple thinks it should be doing, it's a bitch to modify it, and it'll probably self-destruct with the next update.

    --
    this is my sig
  31. My beef with Apple... by Schnoogs · · Score: 0

    The Mac Mini is priced right but its integrated graphics leaves a lot to be desired if you're a gamer AND an owner of a 30" monitor.

    The Mac Pro's ridiculous specs are only matched by its ridiculous price.

    The iMac has all the features I want but comes with a display I neither need nor want to pay for.

    Where is the $1500 Mac that comes without a display but has a decent GPU? Either they need a beefed up Mac Mini or a toned down Mac Pro?

    If Apple solved this problem I'm in bigtime.

  32. Apple Mouse...smells like a rat by Initi · · Score: 1

    For a company that can to so many thing so well, they can't design a mouse for (#&$(*#. I mean really, the original iMac mouse hockey puck should have had someone's head on a platter for its utter uselessness. The newer mighty mouses aren't much better, though the scroll ball is cool. Their keyboard as well suck peanuts out of yesterday's *&#&. Easy to fix; though on a $2000 computer I expect better.

  33. an annoyed Apple customer by sloth+jr · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I've been at Macs a long, long time. Started with the Mac 512k, two external 400k floppies.
    A few things have really irked me lately that were not true in the past.
    - OS upgrade pricing. There is none, just buy it new. Used to be the system software was distributed free.
    - Leopard "improvements". This has been hashed out elsewhere, but reduced functionality in the dock and non-movable sections in the finder sidebar are irksome, regardless of purported internal improvements.
    - Many more app crashes. In APPLE products.
    - Inconsistent user design, focus on chrome and glitz rather than usability.
    - Ongoing arrogance and hubris, as witnessed in the $20 iPod Touch software upgrade. Again, quite the kick-in-the-nuts for early adopters.

    Lots of things are right with Apple, but I am not that happy with the trend that I am afraid I am seeing.

    1. Re:an annoyed Apple customer by itsdapead · · Score: 1

      - OS upgrade pricing. There is none, just buy it new.

      Duh! That is the upgrade price!

      That OS X box is only licensed for use on Apple hardware - all Apple hardware came with Mac OS - ergo, its an upgrade. Compare the OS X prices with Windows upgrades and "full retail" - I make it (UK prices) £85 for Leopard vs. £100 for the Vista Home Premium upgrade

      - Leopard "improvements"

      One of the double-edged swords with Apple is that things get designed by designers with strong opinions. Some designer at Apple (or maybe the polo-necked one himself) thought that the Leopard way was better, and didn't pansy around leaving the old ways as an option. Sometimes - as with Leopard - they get it wrong. What you have to ask yourself is, do you want systems designed by committee that support every legacy UI feature back to System 7, or would you rather risk the occasional backward step?

      - Ongoing arrogance and hubris, as witnessed in the $20 iPod Touch software upgrade.

      With the Airport upgrade, they had some story about their accountants requiring them to charge for any "additional features" or risk prosecution against some dumb new US "No More Enrons" law. Quite frankly, I can believe that even if other firms don't seem bothered - if a senior accountant decides to "gold plate" the law of the land there's probably sod all even Blacksweaterman can do about it - especially if you're on best behaviour after a little backdating no-no. Anyway, $20 isn't that much, and I'm sure that the iPod touch software developers like to eat hot meals and sleep indoors.

      --
      In a survey of 100 programmers, 111111 thought that duck-typing was a good idea.
    2. Re:an annoyed Apple customer by ducomputergeek · · Score: 1
      This is why I don't early adopt Apple products. I always wait for gen 2 of new apple XYZ. Let's look at the past with things like DVD-RAM disks, which never caught on. There was the first gen iPods with the battery issue. The first generation snowwhite iBooks with the logic board issue (which I had one, but it was a timing issue. I need a new laptop and was getting ready to leave the country for 6 months). The original Aluminium powerbooks also had a couple issues (I can't remember what they were off hand), but the bottomline is you don't buy new apple hardware unless you want to spend the extra money to be their public beta testers.

      That's why I didn't go out and buy an iPhone. (Actually I still don't own an iPod, but the touch is looking interesting.) I've just wrote a blog article about not recommending the Air to my consulting clients because the MacBook offers a bit more for a bit less and the MacBook Pro offers a bit more for $100 more. ($50 if you look at the current MacMall specials.) That's why I spent about $8k on the last generation PowerMac G5 Quadcore a couple years ago.

      Want a Mac preloaded with XP pro in a dual boot? MacMall offers that.

      Want to know what annoys me?

      • Offering cool tools in "Beta" or "preview releases" and then stripping them out the real release. (Can you say the GUI for Xgrid).
      • Offering cool tools for free, then charging for them later. (See .Mac and iLife)
      • Taking Anti-virus out of .Mac (I may would pay for the service it still had anti-virus included) I know this is a mac-boy rant that there aren't any, but that won't be the case forever
      • Apples tendancy to nickel and dime. (QT Pro, then having to fork over more for Mpeg2 playback) Not offering new OS upgrades to clients who buy a machine weeks before the announcements. (Happened with me and 10.2. I put off buying a MBP for three months with Lepord
      • Selling Shake for $3k and then reducing the price to $500 6 months after I bought it (yeah, my luck, but still)
      • Over charging for Ram. I have 8GB in my Quadcore. I bought all of it from Crucial after market for 1/3rd what Apple wanted. Same thing with my MBP. It came with 2GB. Apple wanted $700 for another 2GB. Crucial wanted $100. Guess who got my business

      Overall, I like my Macs. Granted, I earn my living with FCP and Shake. I switched from Linux in 2002 to Mac because I wanted a system that just works. And the Mac line up has saved me a lot of time not having to deal with crashes, virus of the week, or dependency hell that comes with Linux for the desktop.

      I do a lot of consulting with other videographers since I'm more of geek than an artist. Like everything, you need to be a savvy consumer, know where Apple rips you and how to get around it to get the best price.

      --
      "The problem with socialism is eventually you run out of other people's money" - Thatcher.
    3. Re:an annoyed Apple customer by jddj · · Score: 1

      And howsabout pointless changes for changes' sake? Where'd the fscking "Location" menu item from the Finder go in Leopard? I was all over that thing as I traveled, and now they've broken a crucial feature for me.

      As a serial- multiple- Mac owner, what bugs me most about Apple is other Mac owners acting like Apple's shit doesn't stink.

    4. Re:an annoyed Apple customer by BlueshiftVFX · · Score: 1

      and I'm sure that the iPod touch software developers like to eat hot meals and sleep indoors.

      they can, the company provides Microwaves in the kitchen and the space on the floor under their desk is warm right next to their computer.

      I kid, I kid!

    5. Re:an annoyed Apple customer by SmilingSalmon · · Score: 1

      I've been at Macs a long, long time. Started with the Mac 512k, two external 400k floppies.

      Oh you spoiled kids and your 512K Macs with two external 400K floppies. So you had three floppy drives total??!. How about those of us who suffered with a 128K Mac and one floppy drive with the first version of the Finder where you had to shuffle floppies back and forth a couple dozen times to copy a file? Better wrist exercise than wanking.

      And get the hell off my lawn!
    6. Re:an annoyed Apple customer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      what bothers me most is the incredible downturn in terms of quality of the hardware. having had a pismo powerbook that just lasted like the ones of all other people i met, everybody was happy.

      nowadays, the vast majority of people tell me about their hardware problems, like "oh, yes, i fortunately shelled out $ 300 for AppleCare and it already made sense 'cause the motherboard was dead twice and i got it replaced for free."

      Or the FireWire being broken on most iBooks i ever came across, not to mention all the problems with the intelmacs.

      this mac is the last one i will have bought. lets hope lenovo is able to maintain the unrivaled quality of the thinkpads.

    7. Re:an annoyed Apple customer by stewbacca · · Score: 1

      - Inconsistent user design
      Apple wrote UI standards that are still in use in nearly every University program out there and you, random slashdot guy, want to call them out for an insignificant design choice (that has since been remedied)?
    8. Re:an annoyed Apple customer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      System software upgrades were not always free. If you wanted MultiFinder capabilities on your old Mac, a set of System 5.0 disks would have set up back $49.

      (I don't remember the exact price, but I do remember that was the first upgrade that I had to pay for. I don't know if systems 6 thru 9 were free, as I was getting them through the developer program at the time.)

    9. Re:an annoyed Apple customer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      OS upgrade pricing. There is none, just buy it new.
      Or, from another PoV, everyone gets upgrade pricing as you're only ever going to install it on a machine that already has (or had at one point) OSX on it. Compare the boxed price of OSX with that of Vista...
    10. Re:an annoyed Apple customer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Amen to that. My g5 runs that little bit better than my intel one. Got leopard hoping it would bring the quick(er) start ups, stability, etc. to intel but it didn't.

      little things - on the g5 it feels like the cursor is attached to the mouse. It goes wherever you put it immediately. The intel has these microscopic pauses (i do mean tiny, I'm sure my mom wouldn't notice) that detract from the experience (trusting that it is doing what you told it to as fast as it can) way more than any shiny stuff makes up for.

      OsX *was* a modern operating system running on specific hardware and it showed.

      Personal computers are so goddamn flaky, and the mac was nice because it was pretty solid in comparison to most. Less and less so with passing time. It happens to every company that makes it big, along the lines of:

      make a great product,
      people love it,
      gain marketshare,

      then it all starts going wrong...

      can't scale up that same wonderful product and what was great deteriorates.

      iPods are cool, yeah, but was it worth 'apple computer' becoming 'apple'?

  34. Buy used. by reidconti · · Score: 1

    Buy used.

    My iBook 600 lasted me 5 years, including all thru college, so when I had the means, I bought a Mac Pro with a 24" Dell. I love it. But you're absolutely right, the power is way more than most of us need. I justified it because I know if I could last 5 years on a non-upgradeable system, it will be no problem to go that long on this one.

    I really don't understand Apple's justification for not selling a computer for the rest of us.

    I had the same problem at work; how to justify a Mac Pro, or buy a Mini with a huge widescreen. Fortunately my boss traded up to a Mac Pro so I inherited his dual 2.0 G5 PowerMac.

    Apple computers tend to have high resale values so they're not exactly a bargain on the used market, but I bet you could easily buy a high-end G5 for barely over $1000. It'll be quite awhile before nobody makes PPC software.

    Personally, I don't even notice the difference switching between PPC and Intel at work and home.

  35. Pay to buy Vista separately? by jrothwell97 · · Score: 0, Troll

    Pay to buy Vista separately? IMO I should be paid to buy Vista separately and install it. That said, I believe the fastest Vista laptop computer CNet (or maybe PC World?) has ever tested is, rather ironically, a MacBook Pro - that's when you know Apple is getting something right and Microsoft is getting something wrong.

    --
    Those using pirated Tinysoft signatures(TM) are a real threat to society and should all be thrown in jail.
    1. Re:Pay to buy Vista separately? by Schnoogs · · Score: 0

      I wasn't aware that MS made notebooks. I'm also highly skeptical of your claim seeing as there are numerous PC notebooks that come with considerably faster GPU's than any Apple notebook so I'd be curious as to what they were testing when they made that claim.

  36. Smugness perpetuated by Apple by SPF22 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I've been a Mac faithful for about 15 years. I have owned every high-end apple laptop since the G3 Wall Street. The reason I have owned every high end laptop is that one of them always seems to have a major problem a year into using it. It could be a bad hard drive, motherboard, screen problems, or an OS upgrade that doesn't upgrade well and kills my system so many times, that I say f'it and get a new machine.

    If it's not a machine going down, it's the lovely hanging mac. Some app has a problem, and you get the endless rainbow of death, or better yet, a frozen screen. Now all OS' have issues, and I have always loved my Mac(s), but the time has come for me to part ways with Apple (well, except for my iPhone).

    I guess the reason is their PC vs Mac ads. Yup, that is the MAIN reason. When these first came out, they made me incredibly angry due to the fact that Apple gave insinuations that the Mac never crashes, or freezes (this constantly happened to me with 10.4 and my machine died when upgrading to Leopard). Or comments about how the Mac is impervious to viruses (which we all know by know is not the case). Apple just took a bunch of stereotypes about Mac and PCs (many of which are completely wrong), and threw them in a commercial, even though most of the stuff they were saying was complete BS.

    So I am done now. I am moving on and sold my dead MacBook Pro and am in the process of selling my G5 tower, and will now be using Windows newest piece of crap... Vista. So long Mac news, how I loved thee, but I can't take the smug anymore.

    1. Re:Smugness perpetuated by Apple by uniquename72 · · Score: 1
    2. Re:Smugness perpetuated by Apple by Phroggy · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I've been a Mac faithful for about 15 years. I have owned every high-end apple laptop since the G3 Wall Street. The reason I have owned every high end laptop is that one of them always seems to have a major problem a year into using it. It could be a bad hard drive, motherboard, screen problems, or an OS upgrade that doesn't upgrade well and kills my system so many times, that I say f'it and get a new machine. I definitely recommend the AppleCare extended warranty. Yes, if it breaks, it's a pain to be without your computer for awhile while it's being fixed, but my experience with Apple's service has been excellent. All computers have a chance of something breaking; Apple computers are only slightly more likely to break than others.

      If it's not a machine going down, it's the lovely hanging mac. Some app has a problem, and you get the endless rainbow of death, or better yet, a frozen screen. Now all OS' have issues, and I have always loved my Mac(s), but the time has come for me to part ways with Apple (well, except for my iPhone). That's very peculiar. Of course a crashed app can give you the spinning rainbow, but that happens to me on Vista all the time too (minus the spinning rainbow). A frozen screen shouldn't happen; Mac OS X is normally VERY responsive when an app has crashed. If the nature of the crash is that the app is using gobs of memory and the OS is swapping like crazy, then yeah, the whole thing's gonna grind to a halt, but that'll happen on Linux too.

      I guess the reason is their PC vs Mac ads. Yup, that is the MAIN reason. When these first came out, they made me incredibly angry due to the fact that Apple gave insinuations that the Mac never crashes, or freezes (this constantly happened to me with 10.4 and my machine died when upgrading to Leopard). I'm surprised that you would switch to Windows because of a TV ad campaign. Or comments about how the Mac is impervious to viruses (which we all know by know is not the case). No, Macs are not impervious to viruses, but right now, Macs don't get viruses. This will change, but until it does, we might as well enjoy it.

      Apple just took a bunch of stereotypes about Mac and PCs (many of which are completely wrong), and threw them in a commercial, even though most of the stuff they were saying was complete BS. Apparently your experience differs from that of most people. I'm not sure why.

      So I am done now. I am moving on and sold my dead MacBook Pro and am in the process of selling my G5 tower, and will now be using Windows newest piece of crap... Vista. Wait a second, your MBP is still covered under warranty, but you'd rather sell it and switch to a PC than let Apple fix it for free? That disturbs me.

      So long Mac news, how I loved thee, but I can't take the smug anymore. Is it really Apple and their products, or Mac news sites and their fans, that you're trying to get away from? The two are hardly synonymous.
      --
      $x='S24;r)>63/* h@<5+oZ)32"5cz';$me='phroggy'x$];
      $x=~y+ -xz+\0-Tx+;print$_^chop$me for split'',$x;
    3. Re:Smugness perpetuated by Apple by Ash-Fox · · Score: 1
      Note: I am not the original poster.

      I definitely recommend the AppleCare extended warranty.
      Great, you're suggesting spending even more money on Apple because of the fault issues.

      my experience with Apple's service has been excellent.
      My own experience has been terrible. Losing computers for months, returning them claiming there was no issue, reinstalling the OS but not actually fixing the hardware issues. I've had it all.

      Mac OS X is normally VERY responsive when an app has crashed.
      I don't want to sound like a troll... But I honestly find OS X (10.4 series and earlier.. I have barely played with 10.5), I notice the applications don't multi task and are as responsive as compared to Windows XP SP2, variation of Linux on the same hardware - I don't consider OS X 'normally very responsive'. Even after a crash.

      Apparently your experience differs from that of most people. I'm not sure why.
      I have had very similar issues to the person above actually. Why on Earth do I still consider buying Apple stuff though is beyond me.

      No, Macs are not impervious to viruses, but right now, Macs don't get viruses.
      Never assume you are safe, that is the first fault in security and such ideals will lead to larger security problems.

      Wait a second, your MBP is still covered under warranty, but you'd rather sell it and switch to a PC than let Apple fix it for free?
      Hey, I had a MBP, I had it sold.

      It kept doing high pitch whistling noises (no updates or programs that were supposed to address this issue, never fixed it), the wireless card didn't work on 10.4.9 (worked in 10.4.5, so I had to keep OS X at that version, if I didn't, I'd be sacrificing wireless capability - this issue is common enough to be on the Apple forums). Sent to Apple many times, they reinstalled the OS, didn't fix the wireless, they sent it back a few times claiming there was no problem, when it quite obviously did. Never did fix the high pitch whistling.

      Is it really Apple and their products, or Mac news sites and their fans, that you're trying to get away from? The two are hardly synonymous.
      Personally, I find such behavior from said companies, disgusting. Don't you?
      --
      Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
    4. Re:Smugness perpetuated by Apple by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Two things tell me the grandparent is lying. 1- They own all of this high-end Mac hardware, but have never heard of "Force quit". 2- The comment on viruses is a dead giveaway. That post was troll.

    5. Re:Smugness perpetuated by Apple by Phroggy · · Score: 1

      Great, you're suggesting spending even more money on Apple because of the fault issues. I'm suggesting factoring AppleCare into the price when deciding to buy an Apple product.

      My own experience has been terrible. Losing computers for months, returning them claiming there was no issue, reinstalling the OS but not actually fixing the hardware issues. I've had it all. I think you're the first person I've heard of with that kind of a track record. Weird.

      I don't want to sound like a troll... But I honestly find OS X (10.4 series and earlier.. I have barely played with 10.5), I notice the applications don't multi task and are as responsive as compared to Windows XP SP2, variation of Linux on the same hardware - I don't consider OS X 'normally very responsive'. Even after a crash. If I wasn't clear, I only meant that the responsiveness of other running apps when one app is hung with a spinning rainbow cursor. For example, if Safari hangs, Mail is still perfectly responsive while Safari is sitting there doing nothing. I will concede that the OS as a whole is pretty slow in terms of UI responsiveness, but a single broken app doesn't generally affect the rest of the system.

      It kept doing high pitch whistling noises (no updates or programs that were supposed to address this issue, never fixed it), the wireless card didn't work on 10.4.9 (worked in 10.4.5, so I had to keep OS X at that version, if I didn't, I'd be sacrificing wireless capability - this issue is common enough to be on the Apple forums). Sent to Apple many times, they reinstalled the OS, didn't fix the wireless, they sent it back a few times claiming there was no problem, when it quite obviously did. Never did fix the high pitch whistling. I don't have much experience with shipping things back to Apple directly; I normally take broken Macs to the service counter at a local third-party retail store. If it comes back and the problem isn't fixed, I can test it right there in front of their service tech, and not accept it if it's not fixed. If you're shipping the machine to Apple, you wouldn't have this option, so I can see how these problems might occur. That's unfortunate.

      I did have an issue with a bad hard drive in my iBook; the first time I took it in, they wouldn't replace it because they couldn't reproduce the problem - but neither could I. It would occasionally act up for months before I finally was able to get Apple on the phone while the problem was occurring and let them hear the sound it was making over the phone. Finally Apple replaced the hard drive, but the new one still had the same issue, it just didn't do it as much. A year later the new drive suddenly died completely, out of warranty. I installed a new hard drive myself, and so far no issues. This machine is four years old, and the only issues I've had were the flakey hard drive (I won't buy Fujitsu hard drives now) and a stuck latch (promptly fixed under warranty).
      --
      $x='S24;r)>63/* h@<5+oZ)32"5cz';$me='phroggy'x$];
      $x=~y+ -xz+\0-Tx+;print$_^chop$me for split'',$x;
    6. Re:Smugness perpetuated by Apple by Phroggy · · Score: 1

      Two things tell me the grandparent is lying. 1- They own all of this high-end Mac hardware, but have never heard of "Force quit". 2- The comment on viruses is a dead giveaway. That post was troll. No, the comment on viruses is perfectly legitimate - Macs could definitely get them, if there were any. Well, maybe not technically viruses, but certainly malware.
      --
      $x='S24;r)>63/* h@<5+oZ)32"5cz';$me='phroggy'x$];
      $x=~y+ -xz+\0-Tx+;print$_^chop$me for split'',$x;
    7. Re:Smugness perpetuated by Apple by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Do you work for apple?

    8. Re:Smugness perpetuated by Apple by zoltamatron · · Score: 1

      I'm an apple user and I thought this was funny....but if this guy did own an apple he probably wouldn't have made a website that looks like s**t.

      --
      Tolerance does not tolerate intolerance, or hypocrisy.
    9. Re:Smugness perpetuated by Apple by svunt · · Score: 1

      I'm not trolling you, but I must say, you seem to have shelled out a lot of money over the years (the price of every high-end laptop since the G3 Wall Street certainly adds up) for a brand that malfunctions to the point of uselessness every year - at least in your case. It seems strange that after all those dollars out the window for machines that don't last, it was the smug advertising that made you switch.

    10. Re:Smugness perpetuated by Apple by falconwolf · · Score: 1

      My own experience has been terrible. Losing computers for months, returning them claiming there was no issue, reinstalling the OS but not actually fixing the hardware issues. I've had it all.

      I have had the same thing happen to me with my Windows PCs.

      But I honestly find OS X (10.4 series and earlier.. I have barely played with 10.5), I notice the applications don't multi task

      I'm typing this on a MacBook Pro running Tiger, 10.4, and I have no problem multitasking.

      Never assume you are safe, that is the first fault in security and such ideals will lead to larger security problems.

      Now this I agree with. When OS X has a big enough market share viruses and other malware will be written for it. Which is why I'd rather see a number of OSes all having significant market shares, at least oh say 15 to 20% each. More diversity makes it harder to write malware that takes out most computers.

      Falcon
    11. Re:Smugness perpetuated by Apple by PoconoPCDoctor · · Score: 1

      Smug ads is it? So you are a court jester? /Murray Hewitt impression off

      I have a MacBook Pro for almost two year now. Freezing? A LOT less than Windows. And Vista? Oh NO you didn't.

      Therein lies a sad tale. Seems my wife wanted a new PC for this past Christmas. Did she let me persuade her to get a iMac, or maybe a Mac Mini? She wanted what she was used to, so a generic PC with Vista it was. 1 gig of RAM. The system is CHOKINGLY slow. It has to be wiped for XP now. To think that some non-techie person is persuaded to buy a new PC like this bare bones thing I very reluctantly bought for my wife - are they going to be happy with their "NEW!" PC?

      Not. SO not.

      Dude - should have bought the three year protection plan. I had a few things fixed - one was a replacement DVD drive. I think that that repair probably paid for the plan, and I still have a year to go.

      Got Leopard now - everything just works.

      Smug? Those commercials are funny - Funny. Good luck with that Vista thingie.

      At my job, I jacked the RAM on a two year old stock Dell to four gigs, added a 512 meg PCI card, and Vista Ultimate is still quirky and sluggish. It's going back to XP when I have some time.

      Bill, you left at your peak. XP was the bomb-diggity. Vista is just a bomb.

      Interesting that you could have sold a dead MacBook Pro though. A dead PC laptop? Anyone buy these lately? Parts I guess.

      Scotty beam me the hell up.

      Standing For Obama

      --
      "Let us raise a standard to which the wise and honest can repair" - George Washington
    12. Re:Smugness perpetuated by Apple by Ash-Fox · · Score: 1

      I have had the same thing happen to me with my Windows PCs.
      Which firm out of curiosity? There is really only one major PC company I have barely used and that is Dell.

      I notice the applications don't multi task
      Sorry, should be "don't multi task well", at least when I compare the experience between other operating systems on the same hardware.

      When OS X has a big enough market share viruses and other malware will be written for it.
      Indeed. Of course, it also just takes one person with a malicious intent to cause problems.
      --
      Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
    13. Re:Smugness perpetuated by Apple by Phroggy · · Score: 1

      No.

      --
      $x='S24;r)>63/* h@<5+oZ)32"5cz';$me='phroggy'x$];
      $x=~y+ -xz+\0-Tx+;print$_^chop$me for split'',$x;
    14. Re:Smugness perpetuated by Apple by stewbacca · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Anyone who bases his or her consumer choice on advertising needs to be modded down. If you can't see an advertisement for what it's worth, than you'll never be happy with any purchase.

    15. Re:Smugness perpetuated by Apple by Ash-Fox · · Score: 1
      Note: I am not the original poster.

      I have a MacBook Pro for almost two year now. Freezing? A LOT less than Windows. And Vista? Oh NO you didn't.
      I've had a MBP longer than you have. I never had freezing on Windows XP SP2 (except at one point when stick of RAM went bad in a computer from 2001 - but I won't count hardware issues as OS issues). Nor did I on Linux. I have had plenty of lock ups on various versions of OS X.

      Dude - should have bought the three year protection plan.

      I am one of the Apple users who did buy long term protection plans and things from Apple. It didn't help in the slightest with their terrible poor support. Losing machines for a few weeks, sending them back unfixed, formatting the thing and reinstalling the OS and sending it back, still not fixing the hardware issues.

      She wanted what she was used to, so a generic PC with Vista it was. 1 gig of RAM. The system is CHOKINGLY slow.
      I'd say you didn't make the right PC purchase.

      Got Leopard now - everything just works.
      Really? Is Java just working? Because it didn't for me.

      What about time machine? Does it actually make 'just works' backups? Because the backups can't even boot up, can't back up encrypted files, can't even back up airport disk drives.

      Never mind the fact the firewall in OS X 10.5 has shown to not "just work" as it did in past versions of the OS.

      Hell, try even using wireless networks that don't broadcast their SSID and watch how consistent and how OS X "just works" every time (hint: it forgets and doesn't inconsistently).

      Interesting that you could have sold a dead MacBook Pro though.
      You can also sell a P-P-P-Powerbook!
      --
      Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
    16. Re:Smugness perpetuated by Apple by PoconoPCDoctor · · Score: 1

      I'm in tech support - so I've seen plenty of XP boxes due to the inevitable accumulation of eight gazillion programs, spyware, trojans, and Bill Gates knows what else, have had to be re-imaged since it was faster than waiting for XP to do something while the hard drive was too small, not defragged, etc. That being said, I like XP. Keep it up to date, anti-virus up to date too, practice safe surfing, and it just works.

      I like my Mac because I don't have to deal with the exploits in XP, and because, for me, it has been relatively problem-free.

      BTW, just bought and Airport Extreme to replace a Cisco/Linksys wireless router. No more restarting the frickin' router every other minute. The Airport was easy to setup, and configure WPA Personal. The flippin' Cisco/Linksys always had problems with whatever security I chose. So I settled for MAC filtering. I have one PC to and two Macs on my home network.

      We had a specific budget for a PC, so got a basic one. It'll be fine once I put XP on it. My point was that what about that average Joe User does when he thinks he's buying a 'state of the art system" with Vista, and it runs like a dog. He's stuck or very angry at Microsoft. Every Mac I've used recently has seemed refined and quick. From my son's Mac Mini to a G5 (non-Intel) I used at work, they seem to be reliable and workhorses. I was also using a 5 year old G4 with Tiger - the thing would not die.

      I have used time machine and it seems to work for me. So, there might be issues with encryption. Don't use it. Don't care.

      I haven't looked that closely at the Firewall or java, but I don't worry too much about those things. No national security stored on this cool toy.

      Leopard and Java works on this old school HTML page - http://poconopcdoctor.com/BigJimmyStyle/

      But this is a really old example of a Java Applet.

      So I'm happy.

      I, for one, choose not to anger the overlords with too many requests for perfection. I'm not perfect, so why should they be?

      B-)

      --
      "Let us raise a standard to which the wise and honest can repair" - George Washington
    17. Re:Smugness perpetuated by Apple by falconwolf · · Score: 1

      Which firm out of curiosity? There is really only one major PC company I have barely used and that is Dell.

      My first PC was from Gateway and the second I had trouble with was an HP. The best Windows PC I got was from Microway, I got it at the same tyme I got the Gateway. Unfortunately though it's cpu's a DEC Alpha and I wasn't able to install much software on it, DEC said with FX!32 almost any software that ran in NT4 would run on Alphas, but that wasn't true. Out of several programs I bought I was only able to install one, Borland's C++ Powerbuilder. I got it as a dualboot, Windows NT4.0 installed on one hdd and Redhat Linux installed on another.

      Falcon
  37. The Command key by sxltrex · · Score: 4, Informative

    Have you tried Command-Delete? Also known as the Apple key, Apple tends to use this key as a modifier for many Finder shortcuts.

    1. Re:The Command key by Cro+Magnon · · Score: 1

      Some OS's let you delete with ONE key.

      --
      Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.
  38. My thoughts by Mr_Silver · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I'm not a Mac fanboy, hell I don't even own a Mac, but the biggest annoyance for me is Apple's gap in their product portfolio.

    Take the laptops. The cheapest is £699. A similarly specified Dell would be about the same (or more) but for a lot of people they simply don't need everything that the MacBook offers. So if you want a laptop for email, the web and a little bit of word processing then you have a choice between a £699 MacBook or a £299 Dell. Yes the former has a bit more polish, but is it really worth the extra £400? Not for the casual/basic user.

    Take Mac Mini's. There is nothing headless that sits between the most expensive Mac Mini (£499) and the cheapest Mac Pro (£1,429). I have a perfectly good monitor and I don't want to have to be forced to buy a new one every time I upgrade my PC - so I'd like to avoid the iMac.

    That's about it really.

    --
    Avantslash - View Slashdot cleanly on your mobile phone.
    1. Re:My thoughts by vux984 · · Score: 1

      I'm not a Mac fanboy, hell I don't even own a Mac, but the biggest annoyance for me is Apple's gap in their product portfolio.

      Take the laptops. So if you want a laptop for email, the web and a little bit of word processing then you have a choice between a £699 MacBook or a £299 Dell. Yes the former has a bit more polish, but is it really worth the extra £400? Not for the casual/basic user.

      Careful there. ;) With OSX a casual/basic user -can- do video chat, burn their own movies, use a bluetooth mouse, play with photobooth, retouch digitial photos, etc... that is part of the Mac cachet.

      If they started selling a Mac that couldn't do these things, without a camera, without bluetooth, with a celeron instead of core 2 duo then it it would be a dismal experience doing all the things we're told macs are so good at ... and undermine the entire product line.

      To use a car analogy, it would be like Porsche or BMW talking about their premium and luxury experience and then releasing a rebadged budget american hatchback (geo metro equivalent). It would tarnish the whole Porsche or BMW brand.

      Take Mac Mini's. There is nothing headless that sits between the most expensive Mac Mini (£499) and the cheapest Mac Pro (£1,429).

      On this point I am in 100% agreement. I need to install and work with a PCI video capture card, swap hard drives in and out, etc. A mini is a touch weak, and doesn't support a PCI add in card so that's a no go. And a Pro... I don't need an 8 core desktop PC with xeon processors, and I'm certainly not willing to pay the price for one from -any- manufacturer.

      An imac is in the right performance range... but again no PCI cards, and I'd like to be able to drop in a better video card. I also use a KVM to control a few PCs, so I don't want an integrated unit.

      I have a perfectly good monitor and I don't want to have to be forced to buy a new one every time I upgrade my PC - so I'd like to avoid the iMac.

      This is a bit of a non-starter in my opinion, when you upgrade your PC you can sell the imac whole (including the monitor) and the resale value tends to be pretty good.

      It is a valid complaint when your talking about KVM (my situation), and also when considering repairs -- if your lcd dies on your otherwise perfectly good imac you tend to face repair expenses that signifcantly exceed what the cost of a new standalone screen would be. Its ok to accept these limitations with laptops -- you get portablility out of the trade... but on a desktop? A little bit of counterspace?? Whoo. Not that I object to people who want imacs... I just don't want one, and they don't make a tower with comparable specs - which is what I do want.

    2. Re:My thoughts by The+One+and+Only · · Score: 1

      Take Mac Mini's. There is nothing headless that sits between the most expensive Mac Mini (£499) and the cheapest Mac Pro (£1,429). I have a perfectly good monitor and I don't want to have to be forced to buy a new one every time I upgrade my PC - so I'd like to avoid the iMac.

      The iMac actually has video out, so you could get it and have two displays.

      --
      In Repressive Burma, it's not just your connection that dies. slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=314547&cid=20819199
    3. Re:My thoughts by mabhatter654 · · Score: 1

      I don't know the deal on no mid-size Mac that's slightly expandable. I could say the reason that the entry Macbook is so high priced is that the cheaper stuff from BigBox stores is priced cheap... and runs like crap. Apple has a sweetheart deal with Intel to get the very best chips at a good price, there's no reason NOT to put forward the best chips in their machines (except they can put in crap video?) it gives them room to make that extra profit margin they like and it ensures customers don't buy crappy machines and then not use the features.

      For instance, try to find a RETAIL laptop with Bluetooth, or T7000 series chips. You can Walk into the Apple store to get one... with HP or Dell you MIGHT find one at a store, but it will be over priced and they'd prefer you to order it online... Apple has less waiting for their best stuff. Wireless N is just starting to make an appearance, and gigabit wired Ethernet is non-existent. Just about all their products use the highest speed (notebook) ram generally available (not for hackers) as well as buses to run the chips on. The software bundle of iLife includes ALL the features you need for basic computing... it's not "trial ware" for things like your DVD player or photo editor... that's a BIG deal in the total package.

  39. What bothers me about Apple? by Trailer+Trash · · Score: 5, Insightful

    What bothers me is the fact that Forbes can't write a positive article about Apple. They always have to be the spoiler, trying to find the pit instead of the tasty cherry. It's the same thing that bothers me about open source in general.

    Okay, that actually is what bothers me about Forbes. You'd think after looking like complete and utter fools for letting Dan Lyons keep writing false, misleading, or just stupid articles about Linux with respect to the SCO farce, they would rein him in a bit. Instead, he starts acting like a complete ass yet again with the fake Steve Jobs thing. The negativity that they have toward any non-Microsoft (and non-SCO, as it were) software is bizarre.

    Forbes should be a credible source of news, but given their level of maturity in reporting in areas for which I have a high degree of knowledge, I wouldn't trust them in any other category. Ever.

    It's pathetic.

  40. Video Cards by 2starr · · Score: 1

    BY FAR, it's the fact that I can't use a normal PC video card. Why is that? It's just silly. If I could do that, then I'd really have no need for a PC. Mac video cards lag behind too much and cost WAY too much.

    --

    "Let your heart soar as high as it will. Refuse to be average." - A. W. Tozer

    1. Re:Video Cards by stewbacca · · Score: 2

      I can't use a normal PC video card.
      You sir, are an idiot. I have been using PC standard video cards in Macs for over 10 years now. Would you care to explain how "normal PC video cards" don't work in Macs?
    2. Re:Video Cards by arikol · · Score: 1

      errr, you're a little behind the times there...
      Macs have used regular video cards since the intel shift. Now it's just the question of drivers. And as you know, each OS needs its specific drivers.
      Of course for that to matter in the first place you need to buy a Mac Pro as the other machines dont have PCI slots.

    3. Re:Video Cards by stewbacca · · Score: 2, Informative
      Macs have used regular video cards since LONG before the Intel shift. I have a Voodoo I card that I flashed the rom for to let it work in my Mac from my PC. I don't remember the year, but that was probably 1996? I can't say for sure, but I think the first PPC motherboards (depending on the model) also used standard PCI slots (not the all-in-one Performas, but the desktop and tower models). My 1999 G4 tower has an AGP slot, just as was standard in PCs at the time.

      To keep this on topic, the one thing that bugs me the most about Apple is all the misconceptions associated with their computers, such as "they only have one-button mice", or "they don't use standard video cards". Hell, I've even heard claims that Macs can't go on the Internet or they have special printer cables that only work with Apple.

    4. Re:Video Cards by arikol · · Score: 1

      Ah, yes. The cards themselves were standard, but you had to flash the ROM because the mac used big-endian byte order, while the x86 family of processors used little-endian byte order.

      Still a big enough difference that graphics cards were sold as Mac or PC versions.
      Flashing the ROM may not have been very complicated, but it's not "the Mac way". It also isn't something the average consumer is likely to know (or should be likely to know)

      To finish off, the cards were the same, the firmware wasn't.

    5. Re:Video Cards by stewbacca · · Score: 1

      Excellent points. I just get tired of the myth that Macs use some sort of magically proprietary components, when that hasn't been true since the pre PPC days.

  41. Chair joke (was:Leave it Forbes...) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    to assert that "Vista Not Included" actually bothers anyone beside Steve Ballmer.
    This time around the chairs are seen being thrown at Cupertino by a different Steve instead of at Redmond.
  42. Not a generic PC by Midnight+Thunder · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Not vista, but it would be helpful to buy a Mac pre-configured with bootcamp + Windows XP. I don't want it at home, but at work it would be quite nice. I could see small business customers loving it.

    Sure, but why should that be Apple's responsibility? Apple is there to advertise and sell MacOS X. People buying Macs are for the moost part buying it for MacOS X. If some people want Windows presinstalled on the system, then they could always pay extra and have a shop do the work for them. Apple offering Windows as a 'Build To Order' option would likely cause confusion about their confidence in their own OS.

    Apple shouldn't make it any more easier to use the competing OS than they already have. They aren't a generic computer seller and the more the can convince you to drink the cool-aid the better for them. Anyone who believes in their OS, whether it be Linux, Windows, BSD or Amiga, amongst others, are going to have the same attitude.

    As to your gripes about Leopard, I am not sure how you are getting such a bad experience. I haven't rebooted for over a month and I use it daily, putting the system to sleep at night. The usual causes for exessive memory usage, on my computer, have been leaks in Firefox and when that happens I kill Firefox and relaunch it. Admitly one computer has gone done once in a while, and the kernel panic clearly points to an ATI driver issue.

    --
    Jumpstart the tartan drive.
    1. Re:Not a generic PC by mdwh2 · · Score: 1

      Apple is there to advertise and sell MacOS X. People buying Macs are for the moost part buying it for MacOS X. If some people want Windows presinstalled on the system, then they could always pay extra and have a shop do the work for them.

      I disagree - Apple is there to sell Macs. They're a hardware company. That's why they're happy to include boot camp - and also why they don't see OS X for standard PCs. They're not an OS company - they ditched MacOS and jumped to building an OS from NeXT quite happily, because it suited their platform better.

      You are right though that their intent is to market "not a generic PC" - they differentiate themselves on the platform as a whole, not specifically OS X.

    2. Re:Not a generic PC by gad_zuki! · · Score: 1

      >They aren't a generic computer seller and the more the can convince you to drink the cool-aid the better for them.

      Well, to be honest I'm more easily bought off with the real Kool-Aid and not the knock-off.

    3. Re:Not a generic PC by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ive been saying this for years. Apple would sell a LOT more macs if they came with windows.

      Face it Steve, MS beat you, they have the better OS hands down.

  43. The other problem with integrated monitors by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 1

    Is that generally a good monitor will outlast a computer. At work some time ago we got budget to upgrade one of our instructional labs. It badly needed it, the engineering software we run in it (particularly HFSS) was just way too much for the old machines. Well we were given $50,000 for 50 machines. We could spend that however we wanted, but basically it means $1000 to distribute to a computer. However, while the machines needed replacing, the monitors didn't. They are nice LCDs, and are all still working great. So that meant we could put more money towards the computers, which allows them to do better at what they need to do and last longer.

    Now again in the next year or two we are going to probably look at replacing the systems (this was about three years ago) but we'll still probably keep the monitors. They are still working great. While new monitors aren't that much it'd still be probably $150 per system or so. That's enough to get 2GB more memory and a faster processor, a worthwhile investment when the system is likely to be in place for 5 years and has to run intense software.

    If you get an all-in-one, you have to pay for that monitor every time. That's fine if you want a new monitor, but if you are happy with what you have there's no reason to spend the money on a new one. Even CRTs outlasted the computers generally but with LCDs it is particularly true. They have nice long lifes and their image stays sharp. First thing to go is the backlights, and those are replaceable if you like.

    Much more economical, not to mention environmentally friendly, to keep using a monitor if it still works well than to get a new one just because you need a new computer and the monitor happens to be attached to it.

    1. Re:The other problem with integrated monitors by lucas+teh+geek · · Score: 1

      I've always thought it'd be a nice compromise to have a DVI-in port on the iMacs. if they had that, I'd go out and pick up a 24" one tommorrow, then a few years down the track when it's getting a bit slow, go pick up a new 24" iMac and use the old one as a second monitor for it

      --
      TIAEAE!
  44. what about the 75% rule? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    This article is about what I've come to expect from Forbes, fluff with no substance, no actual reporting, just a slam job to please the advertisers on the site.

    What really bothers me about Apple products is how they've started shipping everything at about 60% finished, full of bugs, lacking features, or with features that just don't work. Afterwards, there may be one update to address the most obvious problems and bugs, but they almost never finish the missing features, getting the product to about 75% of advertised functionality before abandoning it. This is quite common with everything coming out of silicon valley these days, the "everything is beta, ship it" mentality.

    The only exception to this is their flagship product, OSX. For any given cycle, there are 10 or 11 updates for the life cycle, they really pour their energy into bug fixes and security patches. Unfortunately, across the rest of their product lines, such follow-on support is non-existent.

    The one big example I recently had to deal with was with a bunch of Airport Express Base Stations I had to install for my employer. Fantastic little access points, if only they worked. About 60% of the features work, the remaining features are dead or too buggy to count. The one and only update fixed only a few bugs, and removed all the broken features.

    There is a USB port which Apple once claimed could be used for plugging in a remote disk or printer. The firmware for supporting disks never worked, only one update caused the option to disappear. Now that there is a new base station with a built in disk, they've quietly dropped support for the existing line, telling people who want the NAS functionality they once paid for to go buy a new product.

    Same thing with printer support, there is a small white-list of printers that sort-of, mostly, work with the AEBS, but most USB printers do not. Just a bug that will never be fixed because a new product exists and all prior products immediately become unsupported.

    The management application is buggy as hell, it actually only works for a short time immediately after booting the machine. This has been confirmed by Apple support, who have now announced there will be no bug fixes for the Airport Utility. The newest access point "Time Capsule" will have a completely new Airport Utility, which can not be used to manage other, older access points on the network. The newer Airport Utility can not be run simultaneously as the old one, so to manage your Apple APs you have to reboot your machine when switching from one utility to the other. Apple's support response was "our products are not designed for anything other than home use, corporate environments are not supported and may violate your guarantee". Our Apple corporate sales rep was apologetic, but has never managed to get us any real support.

  45. What bugs me is the hardware supports by happymark · · Score: 1

    I have a "Pentax K100D Super" camera, it is still not supported by Aperture. It has been 6 months since released. It's very similar to K100. Nokia 6210 is still not supported by iSync. But Apple was nice enough to include a iSync Plugin Maker utility. Just hope Apple would include more plugin maker, so that we can make out own.

  46. You're kidding, aren't you? by bahamat · · Score: 2, Insightful

    This article is just incendiary. It's pure flamebait, and you fell for it. I highly doubt that Apple "fans" are complaining about having to buy a copy of Vista because I highly doubt many of them are running Windows. I highly doubt they are complaining about batteries. The iPod is hugely popular and has never had a replaceable battery. Same goes for the iPhone. The MacBook Air is 50% battery by volume and 80% by weight. Even if there were available, there would be few if any buyers. Apple fans also couldn't care less about the stock price. They care about cool stuff. People who don't like Apple (which can hardly be described as "fans") like to complain about Apple are disappointed that they have to buy Windows from a third party (what? iPhoto doesn't come with a Nokia D80? HOW COULD APPLE DO THIS TO ME?!?!). People who don't carry spare batteries for their PC laptops complain that you can't get a spare battery for Apple devices (an extra battery costs how much??). Day traders who were hoping to cash in on Macworld care about Apple's stock price. Journalists who want to write about how much money you can make as a day trader during the week of Macworld care about Apple's stock price (Apple stock didn't jump 30 points?? I'm ruined! SELL!!! SELL!!! SELL!!!).

    1. Re:You're kidding, aren't you? by russotto · · Score: 1

      This article is just incendiary. It's pure flamebait, and you fell for it. I highly doubt that Apple "fans" are complaining about having to buy a copy of Vista because I highly doubt many of them are running Windows. I highly doubt they are complaining about batteries.


      In fact, the only complaint that the article actually attributes to Apple users is that the battery on the MacBook Air isn't swappable. They aren't complaining about replacement at battery end-of-life, they're worried about swapping it while on a long flight. Everything else is just the author making things up and insinuating that Apple users think that way.

      I suspect that there will be an aftermarket long-life battery that fits under the MacBook Air to handle the long-flight issue. If it even is an issue on the SSD-equipped version. At battery end of life, the road warriors will have gotten shiny new machines anyway, and the secondhand owners will either have the battery replaced or replace it themselves with a grey-market battery.

    2. Re:You're kidding, aren't you? by stewbacca · · Score: 1

      This article is just incendiary.
      I find it entertaining that all the posts in this thread about gripes with Apple come from non-Mac users as well.
  47. iTouch upgrade fee = Sarbanes-Oxley requirement by jamrock · · Score: 2, Informative

    For example, the new software for the iPod touch is a $20 download. This is the same software that's a free update for the iPhone.
    IANAL, but someone explained to me that, unlike with the iPhone, Apple doesn't account for the iPod Touch on a subscription basis, so they're required to charge something for upgrades in order to comply with the Public Company Accounting Reform and Investor Protection Act of 2002, otherwise known as the Sarbanes-Oxley Act (Thank you so much Enron, WorldCom, Tyco, et al). Apparently, this was also the reason why they initially charged users a $2 fee to enable 802.11n in Macs equipped with it (if you purchased an AirPort Extreme base station, the enabler is unnecessary). I have no idea why this requirement exists and the legal details made my head hurt, but I was further informed that the Apple TV upgrade was free because Apple is in fact accounting for Apple TV on a subscription basis. And I agree with you about the iTools/.Mac thing.
    1. Re:iTouch upgrade fee = Sarbanes-Oxley requirement by jmauro · · Score: 1

      It exists to prevent companies from front loading IT contract payments while expensing it over a number of years. It was the result of a number of front-loading shennagans done by Enron's IT services field in thier heyday. Yea, it's kind of silly for consumer products, but those are the rules.

    2. Re:iTouch upgrade fee = Sarbanes-Oxley requirement by jamrock · · Score: 1

      Thanks for the clarification. And thank you for the simple, non-legalese explanation.

    3. Re:iTouch upgrade fee = Sarbanes-Oxley requirement by manekineko2 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I have no idea the truth of your claims, but I've seen them bandied about Slashdot quite a bit. I am highly skeptical of whether they could possibly be true though.

      Why is it that Apple seems to be the only company affected by this issue? Why is it that the Microsoft Zunes, albeit pieces of trash, were able to get free upgrades to generation 2 software granting them new features like wireless sync? Why is it that every piece of hardware I can think of that comes with firmware updates seems to be able to get new functionality without charging except for Apple.

      Maybe I'm being cynical, but it definitely strikes me as odd.

    4. Re:iTouch upgrade fee = Sarbanes-Oxley requirement by Lars+T. · · Score: 1

      Why is it that Apple seems to be the only company affected by this issue? Why is it that the Microsoft Zunes, albeit pieces of trash, were able to get free upgrades to generation 2 software granting them new features like wireless sync? Why is it that every piece of hardware I can think of that comes with firmware updates seems to be able to get new functionality without charging except for Apple.

      Maybe I'm being cynical, but it definitely strikes me as odd. Maybe I am cynical, but since when is Microsoft known to give a fuck about breaking laws (them, not others of course)?
      --

      Lars T.

      To the guy who modded me down from perfect to terrible Karma - Apple haters still suck

    5. Re:iTouch upgrade fee = Sarbanes-Oxley requirement by mabhatter654 · · Score: 1

      SOX has nothing to do with the CHOICE to account this way. Apple's just using PR of SOX as a marketing crutch. They could easily account for continual improvement of the product line like any other software company does. Sounds like they're accounting for "appliances", perhaps closing the "R&D" account when the product ships, then claiming only "warranty" costs to make the books look better. That would explain the iPhone price drop also, perhaps they cleared their R&D budget early by hitting shipment targets and could drop the price.

      iPod Touch is less than 6 months old at this point. They haven't raised the price for the new feature and every single device is still under the 1 year warranty. That they choose Byzantine accounting rules is their own fault and they should correct them. It seems that Apple marketing and business are hiding behind the coat-tails of accounting and engineering to justify decisions that are terrible for quality customer service. I understand their need to "look forward" and innovate without looking back, but the current mac/ipod products are less than 2 years old! That they're claiming "unsupported" features at this point is unreasonable at best.

  48. (Lack of) Confidence with service and repairs by ascii · · Score: 1

    I am not entirely confident that the guys Apple use for service are doing their job in my best interest.

    I had a 12" PowerBook where the Harddrive started failing on me. Periodically i would have the entire system freeze on me. It might be 2 minutes after I had booted - it might be 2 hours. It was consistent that i would experience it around 4 times a day.

    After talking to Apple I had a UPS guy pick it up for service. I had written a detailed description on what was wrong, how the problem revealed itself and how long they should expect to monitor it before it revealed itself.

    I had it returned less than 36 hours after the UPS guy picked it up. Mind you that I live in Denmark and repairs and service is done in the Netherlands. This amounts to a significant time in transit. The returned computer hadn't even been opened. It only had a note saying that the problem could not be reproduced or identified.

    As much as I like Apple for their products I get this tiny knot in my stomach when I think about what might happen if something breaks.

    --
    naah sig schmig
  49. Pro laptops aren't durable by Ilan+Volow · · Score: 1

    For the last 5-6 years, Apple's been making their pro lineup of laptops out of soft metal that bends, dents, and warps on the slightest impact (at least in my experience). If there's the slightest dent or warp in that metal, there's a good chance that the Apple store will refuse to fix your laptop even if it's something completely unrelated to the casing (e.g. bad ram, fault DVD drive, etc).

    For what those laptops cost, Apple should have made those suckers out of lexan and added a few curves here and there to dissipate some of the impact (kind of like the old iBooks). It's pretty sad when a $100 laptop made for developing nations can handle wear and tear better than a top-of-the-line $4000 macbook pro.

    --
    Ergonomica Auctorita Illico!
    1. Re:Pro laptops aren't durable by Enrique1218 · · Score: 1

      I don't agree with observation that the metal casing of the pro notebooks are prone to deformation. True, it was like that when Apple released the titanium notebooks but the aluminum casing they now use is very sturdy. God knows I drop this aluminum PB notebook enough times to warrant a dent if your statement were true. But, they do have a policy of not repairing under warranty if there it signs of damage on the casing. That has always been that way.

      --
      You don't have to be smart to use a Mac, you just have to be smart enough to buy one
    2. Re:Pro laptops aren't durable by Ilan+Volow · · Score: 1

      Well, in my experience, the aluminum on my G4 got easily pushed in with the smallest hit. Try dropping the laptop vertically on it's front side a few times if you don't believe me.

      --
      Ergonomica Auctorita Illico!
  50. On Site Support by jcern · · Score: 1

    I love my mac, and I use it mostly for business. Over the past several years I have had two problems that have made me have to send in my machine for repair. For all the servers, computers and even switches we buy from Dell, I almost always have the option for 4 hour on site response (and for servers we almost always spend the extra money on it), but with Apple it is always within 7 days (though they'll usually tell you it gets done faster, but can't guarantee it) and it is mailed off. I've often looked at some of their server equipment and thought it would be nice for certain applications. For example, their SAN is fairly inexpensive, but I couldn't imagine buying a piece equipment that would become indispensable to a business without a service plan that was comparable to 4 hour, or even NBD.

    I might be missing something, and apple might have this. But every time I have inquired about it, the usual response is that I can buy Pro Care, which doesn't really help for this.

  51. Parallels not Bootcamp by MosesJones · · Score: 1


    Who the hell bothers with Bootcamp? As a corporate Mac OSX user with a standard corporate XP image I have to say that its miles better to run a VM on Mac OSX with Parallels rather than Bootcamp... that way when the security patch causes the XP machine to freeze I can still work on the Mac.

    Best working experience ever.

    --
    An Eye for an Eye will make the whole world blind - Gandhi
    1. Re:Parallels not Bootcamp by RealGrouchy · · Score: 2, Informative

      Indeed. With Parallels, your Windows environment is visually integrated into the Mac environment, but in the background it is segregated so if it crashes, it doesn't take down your mac.

      I particularly like Parallels' Coeherence option, which has OSX treat individual Windows windows as separate applications in the Mac environment, so they behave just like Mac instances when you press F11, for example. Being able to copy and paste between OSX and XP, and to have one use files stored on the other's filesystem are further examples.

      However, I'd have to agree with GP's point about having this functionality preinstalled instead of having to install Parallels and XP after purchase.

      - RG>

      --
      Hey pal, this isn't a pleasantforest, so don't waste my time with pleasantries!
  52. WOO! IM NOT THE ONLY ONE! by Viewsonic · · Score: 1
    Wow, I did so many searches on this dang issue and came up with nothing! I thought I was the only person who hid their SSID for their wireless network or something! Leopard will remember what I put in there one out of ten times, on a lucky day. It'll work fine for a week and then suddenly forget my wireless network! THIS IS SO ANNOYING! I found that unhiding my SSID fixed the problem immediately.

    Do none of the Apple employees use hidden wireless networks? It baffles me that this problem is still around SO LONG AFTER LEOPARD HAS BEEN OUT!

    Know whats even worse? My girlfriends iPod Touch HAS THE SAME PROBLEM! It wont remember networks that have a hidden broadcast id! What crap is this!?

  53. Frigen Port Replicator by eegarp · · Score: 1

    How about a normal looking port replicator like PCs.. i have a MACBOOK pro and i have to frigen open the top to turn it on..lame... Anyway, i know they have one but it is horrible...

  54. AMEN! by argent · · Score: 1

    Yes, they put a dock *inside* the computer, at the bottom of the desktop, but they forgot to put one on the *outside* where you need it most.

    The third party port replicators for Mac laptops cost a bundle, compared to the original manufacturer ones for the Thinkpad (for example), and since they're hacks they can't even begin to do as good a job.

  55. My problem is standards by rjschwarz · · Score: 1

    Initially they had different internals. When they finally fixed that they still didn't go all the way. Apple monitors have a bunch of non-standard sizes and resolutions and the cheeze-grater tower is too large to fit into the spot many computer desks reserver for such things. Not to mention the colors. Aluminum just doesn't look right to me. How about a white for entry level and black for Pro, that would be nice.

    1. Re:My problem is standards by mr_matticus · · Score: 1

      Apple monitors have a bunch of non-standard sizes and resolutions What? 20, 23, 30 inch displays are non-standard sizes now? I'll grant you that 24" displays have tended to replace 23" panels lately, but apart from that, what's strange about them?

      Not to mention the colors. You think there are standards for colors? And granting that, that silver/metallic isn't one of them?

      Wow.
    2. Re:My problem is standards by rjschwarz · · Score: 1

      Resolutions not monitor display size. Yes most graphics cards can handle the Apple Resolutions but not all and that is freaking annoying.

    3. Re:My problem is standards by mr_matticus · · Score: 1

      The resolutions are standard for the panel sizes, since the same companies manufacture the panels for everyone.

      1680x1050 is standard for 20" LCDs
      1920x1200 is standard for 23" LCDs
      2560x1600 is the only native resolution for 30" LCDs.

      You're quite simply mistaken.

  56. Battery IS user-replaceable by jamrock · · Score: 1

    Small comfort for road warriors accustomed to carrying a spare, but according to AppleInsider it requires a small Phillips screwdriver and about three minutes to replace the battery. The bottom cover of the MacBook Air is easily unscrewed and gives direct access to the battery, which is NOT soldered to the circuit board. The same screwdriver can be used to unscrew the battery, and a tug disconnects it from the circuit board. However, this begs the question of whether one can purchase replacement batteries (I'm sure that third parties will be quick to fill the gap), or if this operation will void the warranty (Magic 8-Ball says "Yes").

    Apple has also announced that it intends to introduce an out-of-warranty battery replacement program. The announced cost is $129, mail-in of the MacBook Air is required, and turnaround time is 5 business days. I strongly suspect that this option will only be attractive to persons with fewer than ten thumbs, as well as time to burn. If they bought a MacBook Air they already have the money.

  57. Mod Parent Up-WTF are others saying here? by ObiWonKanblomi · · Score: 1

    I'm in total agreement here. I think this article is really "What some Windows-phile would want to have in a Apple". By the time I was about to finish reading the article, I was wondering why I hadn't seen a suggestion for OS X needing a Start Menu.

    I am especially shocked some people in the article's discussion have the audacity to say that Apple should in fact sell the OEM version of Vista for just a slim profit. Come on guys... Apple is NOT a Windows hardware vendor. WTF is wrong with some of these discussion posters?

  58. Re:The lack of upgradeability of the freaking Mac by AHuxley · · Score: 1

    I am in the same position. I would like a 8800 'like' card for my mac pro.

    --
    Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
  59. OS X only has an upgrade price! by daBass · · Score: 1

    How could Apple have an upgrade and "full" price? Every copy of OS X sold is an upgrade; you got your previous copy when you bought your Mac!

    And just look at the pricing, OS X costs about the same as Windows upgrades, or (much) less depending on the version of Windows you compare to.

    I find that pricing quite reasonable; $129 is quite reasonable every 2-3 years and the $199 family pack for up to 5 Macs (I have 3 in the house) is an absolute steal.

    There are things wrong with Apple for sure, but their OS upgrade pricing isn't one of them.

  60. What would I change? by falconwolf · · Score: 1

    One, I would add the ability to run Windows apps in OS X. Two, I would have the prices of upgrades such as more RAM, and biggest and faster hdds, lowered. I found it rather ridiculous Apple wanted another $600 to upgrade my MacBook Pro from 2GB to 4GB, especially when I could get 2GB for half that off the street. Third, I'd do a stock split. At least three or four stocks for each stock now.

    Falcon
    1. Re:What would I change? by stewbacca · · Score: 1

      I would add the ability to run Windows apps in OS X
      "convergence"
  61. Re:The lack of good head less desktop and a $1500 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "The mini is over priced and under powered."

    I disagree for what the Mini is. Try finding its equivalent for that price. Try building your own for that price. And that means a small footprint, quiet, and features. You'll find building one out a Micro ATX will cost you more for the same power by time you add features and find a case (which will be larger) that acts a heat sink to keep the keep a fan off the CPU.

  62. Leopard by falconwolf · · Score: 1

    I think Apple has lost some focus on their computers. Leopard has not been as big as they had hoped. We're putting off the upgrade at work as long as possible.

    I got my MacBook Pro with Panther in August and even though I have the DVD to install Leopard with I won't. I see no reason to install it now, maybe in another year but not now.

    Falcon
  63. Re:The attitude that "almost but not quite" is goo by Poromenos1 · · Score: 1

    What use is a $180 OS if you can't run it anywhere?

    --
    Send email from the afterlife! Write your e-will at Dead Man's Switch.
  64. Replaceable batteries? by falconwolf · · Score: 1

    The batteries on my MacBook Pro and PowerBook are easily replaceable.

    Yeah that's what I thought too. It takes me less than a minute to switch the battery in my MacBook Pro.

    The stock price? Totally bugs me. Every time I use my Mac, I think 'this would be so much more useful to me if only Apple's stock price were different.' No, wait, I don't.

    I'd like to see Apple stock split 3 or 4 for one, if not more.

    Falcon
    1. Re:Replaceable batteries? by mcbiondi · · Score: 1

      Why do you care about the stock price? Why does it matter? Just buy less shares (if you want to buy)....

    2. Re:Replaceable batteries? by falconwolf · · Score: 1

      Why do you care about the stock price? Why does it matter? Just buy less shares (if you want to buy)....

      Because lower prices on stock allow investor to buy more. Say a person has $1000 to invest. At $160 per share, and Apple closed higher today, they could buy 6 shares. However if they cost $40 then they could buy 24 shares. Or better using Dollar cost averaging a person invests $210 a month, with $10 going to the broker. That person can buy 1 share at $160 with $40 left sitting as cash and not earning money. It would take 4 months before that $40 left after each buy order to enable you to buy 2 shares. However if the price is $40 dollars 5 shares could be bought each month totaling $200. In the first example you only have 1 share worth $160 but in the second you have 5 shares worth $200.

      Falcon
  65. montors by falconwolf · · Score: 1

    Most people probably want a new monitor when they get a new computer

    I believe most people use the same monitor when they get a new computer. The only reason to a new monitor is to replace a bad one or because they want a bigger one or one with more resolution. To use with 4 PCs, I've bought 2 monitors. And I only got the second, 17", one because the first, 21", is bad. Now, I'm looking for a new one for my MacBook Pro. Though it's 17" I want a monitor at least 24" for graphic design and photo editing.

    Falcon
    1. Re:montors by SoupIsGoodFood_42 · · Score: 1

      The only reason to a new monitor is to replace a bad one or because they want a bigger one or one with more resolution.

      Of course. Do you think that a nice, big, clear screen is near the bottom of most people's list?

    2. Re:montors by falconwolf · · Score: 1

      The only reason to a new monitor is to replace a bad one or because they want a bigger one or one with more resolution.

      Of course. Do you think that a nice, big, clear screen is near the bottom of most people's list?

      Perhaps you missed it but I did say "or because they want a bigger one or one with more resolution". You even included that part in your reply.

      Falcon
  66. The Stock Price or the Stock Config? by CyberLife · · Score: 1

    I routinely run a comparison between Apple products and other vendors in an attempt to maintain an objective measure of this particular point. In my observation, Apple products are generally cheaper than the competition ..... for the same product.

    Case in point, my last comparison: Baseline Apple Xserve $3,000. Same configuration from Dell (as best as I could get it): $7,500. The key difference: OS licenses.

    So what people really need to consider is not just the price but what one is actually getting for that price. Otherwise, apples and oranges, fruit salad, blah blah blah ....

  67. SSIDs. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    From what I understand hiding your SSID can also confuse an iPhone, PSP, NDS and entirely prevents the OLPC XO from connecting to a network.

    So, bottom line: Stop 'hiding' your SSID. It doesn't improve security. Or are you about to extol the virtues of "security" through obscurity?

    1. Re:SSIDs. by geekboy642 · · Score: 1

      Low-hanging fruit. Defense in depth. Most people can't sniff wifi. Etc. If you can't see the value of a particular security tactic, then you shouldn't be talking about it.

      --
      Just another "DOJ fascist authoritarian totalitarian bootlicker" -- Zeio
    2. Re:SSIDs. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Low-hanging fruit. Defense in depth. Most people can't sniff wifi. Etc. If you can't see the value of a particular security tactic, then you shouldn't be talking about it. Exactly my point, it doesn't improve "security" because it's a selection "tactic" (an obfuscation). If your network had "good enough" security it wouldn't need a hidden SSID -- because selection pressure would have already ruled it out. Again, assuming that you aren't the target, in which case a hidden SSID provides no security. No security, only obscurity.
    3. Re:SSIDs. by LingNoi · · Score: 1

      No security, only obscurity.
      ...Says the Anonymous Coward...
  68. Things that bug me about Apple by MCSEBear · · Score: 1

    They intentionally produce computers that are not easily upgradeable to force users to buy a new Mac instead of being able to upgrade their existing Mac. How many times have people asked apple for an inexpensive Mac tower or mini tower with PCIe slots? The Mac Pro is a great machine, but majorly expensive overkill for home users. You produce a consumer OS. Where is the consumer xMac?

    They delete posts from Apple's support boards when users post reports of common problems with Apple products. Stop trying to silence customers who try to share information about problems.

    1. Re:Things that bug me about Apple by arikol · · Score: 1

      Having worked in computer retail I can assure you that most computer buyers, although the TALK about buying something upgradable, will never upgrade anything beyond RAM (and possibly HDD) in their machines.
      And of those few that do decide to upgrade their machines usually end up having to buy all new internals because of compatibility issues with the newest hardware, ending up with a mostly new computer with a horrible old case and a soon to fail PSU which may or may not fry all those new internals (ppl get REALLY anal about buying a new PSU, not understanding that having sufficient, clean power to all components is crucial and PSU failures can produce really interesting problems, especially if only a partial failure like having ne 5v bus producing unstable voltage, or dropping seriouslu in voltage under load)
      The /. crowd is a bit different in that most of us are geeks who are comfortable with ripping their machines apart and changing stuff. The general population is not willing to spend a few days building a scrapyard box and installing linux, even though that is sufficient for most users needs.

      Apple knows this and markets accordingly.
      Seems to be working for them.

  69. why does building web sites *require* two monitors by falconwolf · · Score: 1

    Web design and building doesn't require 2 monitors but it makes it much easier to have the tools displayed on one monitor while the other one is used to view the output. For instance an editor can be on one monitor while a browser in on the other. Since you can see both there's no need to switch visible windows. I even did this using a Windows PC, I first did this with Windows 95 SE. It's even more useful for graphics. There you can have all the pallets and tools open on one monitor while the graphic you're working on is open on a biggest monitor.

    Falcon
  70. switching windows by falconwolf · · Score: 1

    You might argue one can alt-tab (or whatever the Mac equivalent is)

    It's Command-tab on Macs.

    A lightweight portable would be great for the school backpack or briefcase. However wired networks will be with us for sometime yet.

    WiFi would be better for education. Besides the cost of wiring buildings, being able to conn3ect anywhere on campus is a plus. It's the same with phones, with a land line you're anchored in one place but with a cellphone you can take it with you.

    Falcon
  71. larger font and text? by cojsl · · Score: 1

    How do you make fonts and icons universally larger for users with poor vision WITHOUT increasing screen resolution ala Windows' "Accesibility Wizard". I've asked Mac support, the local genius bar, Google, and the Mac experts I know, and none have had any options better than the per window font size adjustment or decreaseing resolution. It's a shame to have to run non native resolution on the beautiful 24" iMac....

  72. docking station by falconwolf · · Score: 1

    Yup. I'm holding on to my G5 tower for now until Apple either ships a reasonable desktop computer (ie. one with a slotted video card and a good mainstream processor) or a laptop with a docking station that will let me have 2 monitors but still snap it out and go.

    While Apple doesn't have a docking station of their own, if they did I would have gotten it, there are docking stations from third parties. Among others there's BookEndz docks.

    Falcon
    1. Re:docking station by samkass · · Score: 1

      The BookEndz are very hacky and don't allow you to have two external monitors as I mentioned in my post (which you even quoted, apparently without reading).

      --
      E pluribus unum
    2. Re:docking station by falconwolf · · Score: 1

      The BookEndz are very hacky and don't allow you to have two external monitors as I mentioned in my post (which you even quoted, apparently without reading).

      I did read it and you said "let me have 2 monitors". There no "external" in there. Laptops already have one monitor, that's what the LCD is, and the BookEndz station has video out so you can hook up a second monitor, this one being external.

      Falcon
  73. What bugs me about Apple? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0


    Steve Jobs.
    Now if 'Woz' was running Apple, we'd have Macs with hookers and Blackjack.
    No, for sure we'd have hookers with built in Macs that had Blackjack!
    No! Wait! Screw that! We'd have hookers!
    'Woz' Rulez!

  74. Subservience to the music industry by R3d+M3rcury · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Remember Apple's Rip, Mix, Burn ad? The tag line at the end, "It's your music. Burn it on a Mac"? At the time, the music industry was up in arms over this idea that people could rip music from CDs to their computers. Apple became a fair-use sweetheart overnight by actively promoting the concept in advertising that it was okay for you to do this. Apple was the consumer's friend, fighting for our rights against the evil music cartels--or so the fanbois said.

    Then Apple came out with the Airport Express. A great idea--stream audio from your iTunes library to your home stereo. However, Apple encrypted the data so that it could not be sniffed and somehow copied out of the air. Why? According to Apple, they had to do that so as not to offend the music industry. And to make matters worse, they didn't even add a way to send encrypted audio to it. So it only worked with iTunes.

    After that, Apple started selling music videos in the iTunes Store. But there is no way to transfer the audio portion of the music video to a CD or an iPod. So if you like the song and you like the video, you need to buy them separately, even though the song is part of the video. What gives?

    And, of course, most recently, Apple added ringtones to the iTunes Store which you can install on your iPhone. But you can only make ringtones from music that you purchased on the iTunes store. So you first have to pay 99 cents to buy the full song--possibly twice if you already bought it on CD--and that gives you the privilege of spending 99 cents again for a ringtone! Why? Well, because the music industry wanted it that way.

    What happened to Apple, the consumer's friend, the fair-use sweetheart?

    I was especially galled by the ringtone thing. Here was a perfect opportunity for Apple to stand up and say, "It's ridiculous for you to have rebuy a song to use it as a ringtone!" To, once again, show itself as the consumer's friend. Instead, they bowed under pressure from the music industry. What's even more annoying, though, is the mewling Mac mavens who immediately chime in, "Well, at least you're not paying $3.99 a year like all those other guys charge!"

    1. Re:Subservience to the music industry by Yahweh+Doesn't+Exist · · Score: 1

      >So if you like the song and you like the video, you need to buy them separately, even though the song is part of the video.

      why? you can play video files in the same playlist as audio files. on an ipod, if you access a video through "music" and not "videos", you only hear the music. don't think it helps with CD burning though.

      if you want to get more out of AirTunes have a look at a program called Airfoil.

      seems like most of the iTunes problems are because of the need to interact with the music industry. I think Apple have done an amazing job to just get them to accept most of us are not living in the 1980s any more. think what things would be like without iTunes and the iPod; the only other company powerful enough to make it happen is MS, and I think it would be 1000 times worse with them at the helm.

  75. not having to buy an AV kit by falconwolf · · Score: 1

    While Macs don't need AVs for themselves for now, if documents are shared with Windows PCs AV is a good idea.

    Falcon
  76. Re:larger font and text is in... well not really by Psykechan · · Score: 1

    I assume that you're referring to resolution independence which was promised to be in Tiger back in 2004 but still isn't really working properly in Leopard.

    If you would like to give it a go, install the Developer Tools and run Quartz Debug (/Developer/Applications/Graphics Tools). Under the Tools menu, you must "Enable QuartzGL" and "Show User Interface Resolution". You can adjust the slider or key in a number to multiply the interface size by. Enjoy. You have to restart apps to get it to take effect.

    As for my beef with Apple? Let's see...

    1. Lack of PPC support. I understand exactly why, I just don't like it.
    2. Many issues with Tiger were never fixed, basically forcing a Leopard upgrade. (networking being a major one)
    3. Leopard still has major flaws, some of which I have no hope of ever being resolved. (worthless nVidia drivers... they worked in 10.4!)
    4. QuickLook is buggy and crash prone, as well as infuriating when used to view a remote system. Why must it steal my damn focus?

    Those are just a few of the ones that are bothering me at the moment.

  77. kind of like asking... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    what bothers christians most about the bible.

    Ask me. I love mi iPod and mac, but firefox is much less reliable than it was on my pc, at 512m low memory conditions are much more painful and common than they were under xp or Linux, iTunes often hangs and takes otjer apps with it.

    The iPhone has crashed every two to three days, while some apps (browser and music player) crash or need to be reset daily.

    So I love my apple toys, but wouldn't complain if they hired a few more engineers.

  78. Re:The attitude that "almost but not quite" is goo by Yahweh+Doesn't+Exist · · Score: 1

    >What use is a $180 OS if you can't run it anywhere?

    how about ALL THE USE I COULD POSSIBLY NEED

    what use is an OS I can run anywhere if I only own a single computer - a Mac?

    if Apple's products don't suit your needs then shop elsewhere. those of us who are happy are bored of your childish bitching.

  79. Dell and HP are a poor comparison to a Macbook. by falconwolf · · Score: 1

    Before buying my MacBook Pro I compared it to both Dell's and HP's. I took the spec from the 17" MBP and configured Dell and HP laptops to be as close as I could. While the price of the HP was about the same the cheapest Dell was $200 more.

    It's been 6 months so I'm sure it different now.

    Falcon
  80. how buttons on the trackpad? by falconwolf · · Score: 1

    Don't get me wrong, I love my new macbook, but the one-button mouse really bugs me. I can live with the two-finger click thing, but I'd really prefer a two, or three button trackpad.

    Having switched from 2 button mice for Windows and Linux, I thought it would take a while for me to get used to only having one button on my Mac. Therefore I got a 2 button trackball, which I got used to on my Linux PC. While it's compatible after 5 months I haven't yet felt the need for it. Now when I start graphics work I'll want it but not right now. Actually I have 3 buttons now. I have the regular click. If I hold down the ctrl key while clicking I get 1 context menu that lets me choose an action and if I hold down the Command key I get other options.

    Falcon
  81. 2 buttons by falconwolf · · Score: 1

    Likewise, but I do miss having the two buttons below too - eg it is now impossible to do anything that requires both mouse buttons pressed together without an external mouse

    Have you tied holding down either the ctrl or the Command key when clicking?

    Falcon
  82. 2 buttons by falconwolf · · Score: 1

    Oh come on! It is way more convenient to use a two button mouse.

    For me maybe but not for me. And no I don't have any fetish for Steve. Actually I switched from Windows, and Linux, a few months ago.

    It is just out of spite that Mac is still without a two button mouse!

    It is out of simple ergonomics Macs only come with one button, however there's nothing to stop you from using a 2 button mouse, I have a two button trackball I have not yet needed.

    Is this more FUD?

    Falcon
  83. cut and paste by falconwolf · · Score: 1

    The thing that I'm still fuming about is the lack of a cut (Cmd+x) feature for files in Finder. Would it really be so horrible to allow advanced users who are ok with the "inconsistent" behavior to enable the cutting of files? It would make switchers like me much more productive.

    Same here, in Windows Explorer I was used, and liked being able, to cut files and paste them somewhere else. Or right click and drag to create a shortcut, alias.

    Falcon
    1. Re:cut and paste by UnConeD · · Score: 1

      Or right click and drag to create a shortcut, alias.

      OS X uses modifier keys a lot more than windows: Drag = move, option+drag = copy, option+cmd+drag = shortcut.

      Even better, holding down a modifier key will consistently show the changes it enables in the UI. E.g., do a click-hold on a dock icon, then press 'option' to see the 'Quit' option turn to 'Force quit'. OS X is great at keeping the advanced options away from hapless users, and still within easy reach of power users.

    2. Re:cut and paste by falconwolf · · Score: 1

      OS X uses modifier keys a lot more than windows: Drag = move, option+drag = copy, option+cmd+drag = shortcut.

      Thanks, I'll try to recall that.

      Falcon
  84. Fanboys by skinfitz · · Score: 1

    The thing that bugs me most about Apple are the fanboys. You know the type - they will argue about how much better PPC is than Intel, then when Apple switch to Intel, they suddenly flip to why Intel is so much better than PPC.

    Then we have why you don't need apps or copy / paste on the iPhone, until Apple announce an SDK then it's all SDK this and SDK that.

    1. Re:Fanboys by stewbacca · · Score: 1
      I'll take the bait. I'm a 20+ year Mac advocate (fanboy, if you must). Chip comparisons are relative to the era. The G3 and G4 chips smoked the equivalent Pentiums of the time. The G5 didn't, was too hot, too expensive. Intel came out with Core chips that were better than the last round of PPC and fanboys were glad that Macs switched to Intel, because they are better than G5s AND run Windows on Macs now.

      Sure, there are is a small minority of newly converted Mac fans that spew stupid, uninformed comments all the time, but for the most part, Apple users are pragmatic people who understand the switch to Intel was the best move possible. More impressively is how Apple was able to make the transition with practically no impact. If that makes me a fanboy, then fine.

  85. well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "And in my opinion, what they want then isn't a laptop. I have a 12" iBook, and I love it."

    With logic like that, you just made the baby jesus cry.

    It's great you like your 12" ibook. My daughter has one, it's nice.

    But a 15" laptop is considered mainstream in term of sales volume. It's a laptop. Now, you may want to pretend you're a marketer and call it a "desktop replacement", but I can assume you it's a laptop. Apple calls them a laptop, HP calls them a laptop, IBM calls them a laptop, dell calls them a laptop.

    Only you seem to be different. Which is great. Wonderful. But it's still a laptop. Calling the sky green doesn't make it green.

    1. Re:well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "And in my opinion, what they want then isn't a laptop. I have a 12" iBook, and I love it."

      With logic like that, you just made the baby jesus cry.


      Good thing I'm an atheist, then. More seriously, my statement wasn't "what they want isn't a laptop, because I like my 12" iBook", it was more like "what they want isn't a laptop, and here's an explanation of why I think that which involves the fact that I think 12" is the optimal size for a laptop". The fact that I wrote that paragraph between about a dozen different interruptions at work didn't do wonders for how it reads.

      Yes, I know 15" is a laptop. I never claimed otherwise. I'm just saying that I think anything larger than 12" or 13" is getting into inconvenient to carry around territory.
  86. market share by falconwolf · · Score: 2, Insightful

    We Apple fans like to see Apple do well, but probably more in terms of selling more products (higher marketshare, becoming more popular in society, etc.) than just higher profits (most of us aren't in it for the money, after all).

    As an investor if I held Apple shares I'd want Apple to have a bigger market share but more importantly sell more. As a user I also want Apple to have a bigger share, as well as BSD, Linux, and Solaris. The more diverse the OS market the better.

    Falcon
  87. Re:The attitude that "almost but not quite" is goo by falconwolf · · Score: 1

    Their official response was "bring it into an apple certified dealer for service" (because apparently I'm incapable of using a screw driver)

    Was it still under warranty? I don't know of any OEMs that will let you crack open the case to service parts without voiding the warranty, though I did it myself I've heard of others who wanted to add hardware but risked loosing warranty service by opening the case.

    Falcon
  88. Re:The lack of good head less desktop and a $1500 by toddestan · · Score: 1

    That's great and all, but the Mini is Apple's only desktop computer for under $1000, so it is forced to compete in other market segments where it fairs very poorly in terms of price and the features it offers.

  89. And to miss THE ONE MOUSE BUTTON by arete · · Score: 2, Insightful

    And leave it to Forbes to get all that and to miss THE ONE MOUSE BUTTON - seriously. The DESKTOPS now have plenty of buttons, but the laptops still only, really have one.

    The one thing everyone has been legitimately complaining about for years...

    --
    Looking for freelance Actionscript (Flash/Flex) or ColdFusion work and/or freelance developers. Email me, put Slashdot
    1. Re:And to miss THE ONE MOUSE BUTTON by NtroP · · Score: 2, Informative

      And leave it to Forbes to get all that and to miss THE ONE MOUSE BUTTON - seriously. The DESKTOPS now have plenty of buttons, but the laptops still only, really have one.

      I'm going to assume you're just supremely ignorant instead of a troll and explain (I'll type slowly for you) that all the laptops "right-click" by simply placing 2 fingers on the trackpad and clicking *anywhere* on the button. I addition, you can configure the trackpad to treat a tap on the pad itself with 2 fingers to indicate a right-click. With these methods you can "right-click" with your hand in any position on the trackpad instead of having to cock it to find the "right-click-button".

      You can also drag two fingers around anywhere on the trackpad to scroll your page/window in all directions. Much easier than those retarded trackpads with the "zones" on them for scrolling.

      On second thought, with such a low id number, you can't be *that* ignorant - I think I just fed a troll. ...And gave up mod points to do it.

      --
      "terrorism" and "pedophilia" are the root passwords to the Constitution
    2. Re:And to miss THE ONE MOUSE BUTTON by lmpeters · · Score: 1

      On a Mac, you can hold down the Control key while clicking to get the same effect, and you can scroll by dragging with two fingers. And most Mac software is designed so that you don't NEED two or more mouse buttons, so it's not as big a deal as on Windows.

      Anything you'd be likely to use even more mouse buttons for can be done just as easily with a keyboard button (and Mac software never seems to use the old Function keys, i.e. F1...F12), so it's not a big deal, especially on a laptop where the trackpad and keyboard are so close together.

      Oh, and before you accuse me of being a Mac fanboy, I use a Logitech MX Revolution mouse with my Mac Pro, because I absolutely hate the ergonomics of Apple's "Mighty Mouse"!

  90. Stock price? by falconwolf · · Score: 1

    Everyone's stock price is hurting right now!

    The problem with Apple's stock is it's too high. At $160 a share not many can buy much. A four way split, making one share $40, would be better.

    Investors ride the short term wave of hype, and when the hype is done, they get off the wave as fast as they can.

    No, investors hold the stock. They'll use Dollar Cost Averaging to buy shares over a period of tyme and unless there's a need for the money they'll sell shares the same way. It's traders who will sale shares after an Expo, or buy them on good news.

    Falcon
  91. My market segment, too! by PapayaSF · · Score: 1

    For anybody who wants a reasonably specced system (better than Mini, not as tricked out as the Pro)

    Precisely. I call it a Mac MiniPro: basically the current single chip Mac Pro ($2,299 as a BTO option), but with just one optical drive (not two), one hard drive bay (not four), two RAM slots (not eight), two PCI slots (not four) and two USB ports (not five). The case, power supply, and packaging all become smaller and less expensive. Surely Apple could sell something like that for $1,499 or $1,299 at a reasonable profit?

    Or better yet, they could charge $999 and watch their market share rise as gamers, hobbyists, switchers, and enterprises rush to buy them.

    --
    Q: What does the "B." in Benoit B. Mandelbrot stand for? A: Benoit B. Mandelbrot
    1. Re:My market segment, too! by Westacular · · Score: 1

      Well, the Mac Pro uses bloody expensive Fully Buffered RAM, and bleeding-edge Intel Xeon chips, neither of which are even desired by cost-conscious home users, but your point mostly stands. An Apple-branded Intel desktop machine that's (on the inside) more or less like every other normal Intel desktop machine. Price it at a premium, it'll still sell.

      Of course, there's perhaps some irony here: Apple does not sell (and has never sold) any machine that uses Intel's Desktop processors. The Minis and iMacs both use notebook parts, and the XServes and Mac Pros use server/pro-workstation parts. There might be some interesting stipulations about this in whatever deal exists between Intel and Apple.

  92. Apple selling Windows by falconwolf · · Score: 1

    OEM versions of Windows are WAY WAY cheaper than $200, you know? (which is what Apple would be paying for the OS if it came pre-installed) - they could charge $50 extra and probably break even or even make a tenny-weeny profit. Even if they did that, they would probably still charge an extra $200 and laugh to the bank.

    Last I checked Apple did sale MS Windows, I don't recall the price though.

  93. Apple selling Windows by falconwolf · · Score: 1
    • It would seem to contradict their ad campaign which claims that no one wants Vista.
    • It would imply that Apple has an "official" hardware configuration for running Vista, and it might seem slower compared to, say, an HP or Dell hardware configuration for running Vista.

    Apple did sell Windows. It was bundled with Virtual PC. If Apple were to sell Windows stand alone or preinstalled on a Mac then Apple would have to support it.

    Falcon
  94. I guess the reason is their PC vs Mac ads. by falconwolf · · Score: 1

    Yup, that is the MAIN reason. When these first came out, they made me incredibly angry due to the fact that Apple gave insinuations that the Mac never crashes, or freezes (this constantly happened to me with 10.4 and my machine died when upgrading to Leopard). Or comments about how the Mac is impervious to viruses (which we all know by know is not the case). Apple just took a bunch of stereotypes about Mac and PCs (many of which are completely wrong), and threw them in a commercial, even though most of the stuff they were saying was complete BS.

    While the Mac vs Windows ads are overblown to me I still think they are relatively accurate. I bought 3 new Windows PCs, for myself. Of those, two had the hdd die about 6 months later and had to be replaced. On the same two, one a Gateway and the other an HP, the motherboards had to be replace about a year after I got them. I also had to reinstall Windows a number of tymes. On the other hand I bought 2 used Macs. The first was a Mac SE30, made from 1988 to 1989, I bought in 1992. The only problem I had with it, other than it wasn't expandable or upgradeable, was when the floppy drive died in 2000 8 years later. The second was a PowerMac 7300/200 I bought shortly after the first died. My first problem with it was when it wouldn't bootup in 2006 6 years later.

    Falcon
  95. Towards MSWindows? by reiisi · · Score: 0, Troll

    Seriously?

    What is it that has you still chained to Mickey$oft? .net, I guess? If so, you don't need a cheaper, more general-purpose Mac, you need a MSWindows PC with a nice external design.

    Or, you think you do.

    What you really need, however, is RH Enterprise, and it runs just fine on a $600 box.

    --
    Computer memory is just fancy paper, CPUs just fancy pens with fancy erasers; the 'net is just a fancy backyard fence.
  96. In other words, one of Apple's problems is less by reiisi · · Score: 1

    Apple and more Mickey$oft.

    I think it has always been that at least one of Apple's problems has been Mickey$oft.

    --
    Computer memory is just fancy paper, CPUs just fancy pens with fancy erasers; the 'net is just a fancy backyard fence.
  97. Mach, and planned obsolescence by grikdog · · Score: 1

    Never had a Mac that lasted more than 2 years. Or rather, all my Macs still run, except for the ones with broken hinges, but State of the Art has made everything obsolete in two years. The worst Mac I ever owned, a Performa, still boots up fine (and would lock up once or twice a week, just like always, if I'd let it.) Other than that, Mach sucks. These machines blaze on native code.

    --
    ``Tension, apprehension & dissension have begun!'' - Duffy Wyg&, in Alfred Bester's _The Demolished Man_
  98. Re:Attitude... (at Forbes) by reiisi · · Score: 1

    No surprise.

    Forbes is as much out of touch with Apple's customer base as it is with the rest of the real world.

    The people who Forbes caters to own (or want to own) at least two cars that cost more than my house, at least two houses where they can park both of those cars and a utility BMW or three, and either a yacht or a jet or both.

    And they think that the solution to the problems in Africa have something to do with letting them eat cake. And they think that all we need for the ozone layer is a few portable ionizers installed at the poles, along with the refrigeration units to turn down the thermostat and balance the greenhouse gases.

    The only reason that they own an Apple is that they've heard it's cool. Otherwise, whatever Bill sells them they buy, because Bill is one of them.

    --
    Computer memory is just fancy paper, CPUs just fancy pens with fancy erasers; the 'net is just a fancy backyard fence.
  99. The Mouse Acceleration Curve by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The mouse acceleration curve!

    Honestly, how can this not be the #1 item on everyone's list? I was in love with my MacBook until the day I plugged a USB mouse into it. Then I just wanted to take a hammer to it.

    By default the mouse is ridiculously slow. You can turn up the tracking speed, but then the acceleration curve becomes ridiculously sharp. So you have a choice: a mouse pointer that's too slow, or a mouse pointer whose speed randomly jumps between slow and fast.

    Two weeks later, when I still wasn't used to the acceleration curve (which is no surprise as it's better described as a programming error rather than simply different) a friend suggested I try Windows XP, and gave me a copy. I didn't have one myself as I previously used Linux exclusively.

    So, what do you know, Apple has created a new Windows user. There may be a lot of bad things to say about Microsoft, and Linux, but at least they each know how to do a mouse acceleration curve.

  100. I have a tip for apple engineers.... by cheekyboy · · Score: 0, Redundant

    Ok apples developers... either go back to school or listen to Mr God here.

    1. Every fucking failure point MUST log an error message with a severity number, so it can be filtered out. Every damn if() else... LogError( "my stupid code failed coz im a looser" );
          Sure your code could be 10% larger with 1meg of text errors, but its better than Windows Lookalike software that magically fails.

    2. Give your software away for free to universities, more users equals more testers equals better quality feedback especially from smart users, if you loose $100million in sales there who cares, all those
          students will then recommend apple in corporate environments, not MS puke ware.

    3. Listen to your beta testers, users, tell your product manager "oh yeah im am doing those 8 bug fixes", but sneak in some lower pri ones that are high profile and embarrassing.

    --
    Liberty freedom are no1, not dicks in suits.
  101. Funny by Udo+Schmitz · · Score: 1

    Your comment's funny. And the Forbes article too. Just checked the stock-ticker at google: Last twelve months the Nasdaq went down 6.50%, MSFT went up 5.76% and Apple? Uh, yeah such a bad performer: Up 70.53%.

  102. Non removable HDD on iMac by blankoboy · · Score: 1

    I was this > close to purchasing an iMac for my wife until I found out that the internal HDD could not be removed. If I need to have my wife's iMac serviced, this means I need to send the entire system in. I am never giving up my (or any member of family) HDD to any service center (Apple or otherwise). I sincerely hope that Apple will wake up to this and allow owners to hold on to their data.

  103. Argh ! by fullback · · Score: 1

    What about the glaring hole in the desktop lineup? Who wants two year old laptop parts cobbled together inside a large monitor? Why do you need to spend at least a quarter of $10,000 for a box with last years hardware without a monitor?

  104. What I want! by jdehnert · · Score: 1

    I want a home server that can integrate all the iApp. My wife and I still complain about photos that I have, and that She has, and that the Kids have, etc. Gimme a $299 home server that gives me a common DB for photos, Music, a Cal manager and perhaps some zigbee home automation tool as an option. Simple tools to allow you to create a simple automated home with all of your stuff available.

    --
    Eschew Obfuscation
    1. Re:What I want! by Ash-Fox · · Score: 1

      I want a home server that can integrate all the iApp. My wife and I still complain about photos that I have, and that She has, and that the Kids have, etc.
      If I were you, I would have a network storage server setup like:

      Airport Extreme router: $179
      LaCie 1TB BigDisk Extreme: $369.95

      (If you want to put the price down to $299, obviously smaller drives would do that - but I wouldn't recommend it)

      As for application integration with file shares, I can't really help you there.
      --
      Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
  105. Of course it's mythological by dustmite · · Score: 1

    The fictional "rabid fanboi" is a deliberate creation of below-the-line marketing companies in order to stigmatise the very behaviour of complimenting certain products, such as an operating system. The premise is simple; by creating a marketplace awareness and public ridicule of these hypothetical irrational individuals, *everybody* becomes less likely to make positive comments about something, simply for fear of being labelled one. It's just another public manipulation technique used by marketers, and I wish more people would be aware of it.

    The same technique is used to stigmatise critical individuals too, e.g. creating in the minds of the public a mythological "rabid anti-(product-X)" figure, people become less likely to criticise a bad product, for fear of appearing rabid and irrational.

  106. A few things by gilesjuk · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Their moves to make money at any price, the fact they often neglect their computer market to make more cash.

    The DRM and obsession with becoming a media broker.

    Their mice.

    Lack of an affordable tower machine.

    Too much secrecy.

    Threatening and suing Apple users for leaking information or using beta software (they're worse than Microsoft for doing this).

    1. Re:A few things by stewbacca · · Score: 1

      I agree about the mouses. Everything else just sounds anti-capitalist to me, which I'm not.

  107. Still too expensive by wigle · · Score: 1

    Remember when people said Intel macs would be cheaper? Well they aren't. Similarly spec'd Dell laptops are around 35% cheaper than the Mac alternative. Even if I love macs, that's way too expensive to justify.

    --
    ::wigle::
  108. Hey dude, there is a keyboard on the mac ! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What bugs me most about apple is total crazyness with keyboard shortcuts. I used to have Linux and use the keyboard a lot (well, most of the time not using the mouse at all). This is impossible with an apple computer, keyboard shortcuts are stupid when they just exist. Pressing Left then Right does not get you back were you were before it puts some in some random place depending on the window ; as a matter of fact the keyboard shortcuts lack of predictability. Pressing a key might do something (though most of the time it does not do anything)but you never know exactly what will happem. Only solution, heavy mouse usage....

  109. Bugs by Jim+Hall · · Score: 1

    This may be construed as a troll, but it isn't. Asking about what bugs Apple users? I have a Mac at home (my other systems run Linux) and I sometimes use it to do personal email and other "at home" things. I tripped a huge bug today: needed to email someone a snippet of a long html file. Brought up the page in my browser, View Source, copy/paste into TextEdit. Saved the file (without an extension, but that doesn't matter since it was just text.) There were no <html></html> tags around the text, just a long snippet of html source that contained a bunch of <p>&lt/p>'s and some lists. Then I quit TextEdit, since Iwas done with the file.

    Went to attach that file to an email, and when I clicked on the file from the "find the file" dialog, the Mac paused for a moment, then labelled the file as an RTF file.

    Hmm... didn't seem right to me. Opened the file from Finder just to double-check, and yes, the file that had originally contained nothing but a long section of html now had been magically converted to an RTF document. None of my original html was there anymore. The Mac modified my file without asking me.

    That behavior seems very broken to me.

  110. Re:larger font and text is in... well not really by cojsl · · Score: 1

    Thank you!

  111. low ids by Gr8Apes · · Score: 1

    Low id's aren't indicative of anything other than 1) having signed up early or 2) bought an id on ebay. Either way, neither confers automatic wisdom.

    --
    The cesspool just got a check and balance.
  112. Leopard was rushed... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...that's why there are so many more bugs. They rushed it out before it was ready because The Lord On High, His Mightiness The Steve, had to have it NOW.

  113. large laptops by falconwolf · · Score: 1

    I would think that a 21" wide laptop would have a pretty small audience.

    I don't think there was much demand for that 21" laptop. Shortly after I saw it at Best Buy they didn't display it anymore. I only saw it a couple of tymes. If Linux (or BSD) instead of Windows had been installed on it, or I was given the choice of having Linux preinstalled on it, I might of gotten one. There was no way I was going to pay the Microsoft tax and I wasn't able to try to install a *nix on it myself.

    Falcon
  114. It's the economy, stupid... by ddotyjr · · Score: 1

    What bugs me most about Apple is not holes in it's product line or buggy releases, it's the company's GREED. As a result, one of it's biggest turn-offs is how it's trying to bring it's proprietary mindset from the computer industry to the consumer markets. Locking-down iTunes and the iPhone are both soon-to-be-extinguished attempts to hold on to the exclusivity the Mac enjoys, and it just demonstrates that profit is now the SOLE REASON for Apple to exist. Whatever "mystique" they had is tarnishing fast and will soon be obliterated. In the meantime, the company is believing it's own press about being invincible and Steve Jobs has completely lost touch of the attitudes and priorities that led he and Woz to start Apple in the first place. I saw a comparison of monopolistic businesses recently that progressed from Standard Oil to IBM to Microsoft to WalMart to...APPLE. How strange is it that what was once a company based on innovation and user-friendliness gets to be in that really sucky club?

    1. iTunes/iPod/DRM/RIAA/personal information tagging

    2. iPhone/AT&T/kick-backs/bricking updates/the rape of early buyers (and you STILL can't pay cash for one even if you want to)

    3. the Leopard debacle

    Once I held them in great esteem, especially compared to the evil ones in Redmond. Now, unfortunately, it's turned much like politics has, into voting for who sucks the least. For now, Apple does, but at this rate, I don't know how long it will last.

  115. what bugs me? by scolbert · · Score: 0

    what bugs me? the fact that they too quickly obsolete products like my sweet iPhone. what also pisses me off? the fact that there isn't a new 16gb or 3g iphone. LOL!