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Engineered Mosquitoes Could Wipe Out Dengue Fever

Christina Valencia points us to a Wired story about scientists who plan to use genetically modified mosquitoes to reduce the population of Dengue-carrying insects. The altered genes cause newly born mosquitoes to die before they are able to breed if they are not supplied with a crucial antibiotic. This is a more aggressive approach than the anti-Malaria work we discussed last year. From Wired: "Mosquitoes pass dengue fever to up to 100 million people each year, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Up to 5 million die. If the scientists can replicate their results in real field conditions, their technology could kill half of the next generation of dengue mosquitoes, which scientists say would significantly reduce the spread of the disease. If all goes well the company envisions releasing the insects in Malaysia on a large scale in three years."

343 comments

  1. Didn't we learn by PachmanP · · Score: 4, Funny

    ...from Jurassic Park!
    A specific protein in the movies vs an anti-biotic in real life!

    I guess I welcome our genetically engineered super mosquito overlords!

    --
    You're thinking small. Why miniaturize the laser, when we could instead enlarge the sharks? -John Searle
    1. Re:Didn't we learn by Ghostalker474 · · Score: 1

      Wasn't there another movie similar to what they're proposing? Something about genetically engineering cockroach's to stop a plague.

    2. Re:Didn't we learn by jandoedel · · Score: 1
    3. Re:Didn't we learn by Lemmy+Caution · · Score: 5, Funny

      I can't believe that this hasn't been pasted in yet: (from "Bart the Mother")

      Skinner: Well, I was wrong. The lizards are a godsend.
      Lisa: But isn't that a bit short-sighted? What happens when we're overrun by lizards?
      Skinner: No problem. We simply release wave after wave of Chinese needle snakes. They'll wipe out the lizards.
      Lisa: But aren't the snakes even worse?
      Skinner: Yes, but we're prepared for that. We've lined up a fabulous type of gorilla that thrives on snake meat.
      Lisa: But then we're stuck with gorillas!
      Skinner: No, that's the beautiful part. When wintertime rolls around, the gorillas simply freeze to death.

    4. Re:Didn't we learn by tomhudson · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Until we get anti-anti-biotic-resistant (or whatever you'd call them) skeeters ...

      We could also go the other route - reduce the affected population of humans by half ...

      Seriously, it won't work unless its done every year - a real cash cow.

      Oxitec's technology is a variation of a proven process called "sterile insect technique," which scientists have already used to eliminate the screwworm and the Mediterranean fruit fly from North America. It involves irradiating male insects, causing mutations that make them sterile. When released into the wild, they mate with females who then fail to reproduce.

      But the amount of radiation used in that technique kills mosquitoes. So in a twist on the sterile insect technique, Alphey discovered a way to genetically program the bugs to die unless they're fed the common antibiotic tetracycline.

      By postponing death with tetracycline, the scientists can keep the altered bugs alive long enough to breed them in large numbers. When released into the wild, they no longer receive tetracycline so the previously silenced gene springs into action. The bugs stay alive long enough to breed with wild females, but their offspring die young.

      In other words, the mosquitoes are genetically poisoned, but Alphey's team provides the antidote until they are released in the wild.

      "It occurred to me that this could be used to give death, sterility or whatever you want in insects," Alphey said.

      Sure, you reduce the next generation of bugs by half ... and then what? Its not like they won't stop breeding, and those that are left will quickly fill the void. Besides, it doesn't take millions of insects to infect you - get bit, get sick. Eliminate half the bites, you'll still get sick.

    5. Re:Didn't we learn by nitro316 · · Score: 1, Funny

      Yeah it was called Joe's Apartment. I still have Dengue Fever from that one.

    6. Re:Didn't we learn by dhammabum · · Score: 1

      And of course some individual mosquitoes would develop immunity to the effects of this gene and eventually negate the benefit.

      Why not breed mosquitoes that are immune to, or can't be carriers of, the Dengue virus? I don't know the disease cycle, but as it is a virus, there must be some interaction with the mosquito, otherwise other species/genera would be vectors. Speculating more, it is possible that immunity to the virus would be an advantage to the mosquito as well, so once that genetic change made it into the population, it would spread. Otherwise just put the altered mosquitoes out en mass as with these. At least it would be effective in controlling the disease.

      --
      I am not a robot. I am a unicorn.
    7. Re:Didn't we learn by LandruBek · · Score: 2, Funny

      God bless you Lemmy Caution. That's exactly the quote I was waiting for.

      I'm puttin' you in my will!

      (Not actually.)

      --
      $META_SIG_JOKE
    8. Re:Didn't we learn by Rei · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Seriously, it won't work unless its done every year

      Well, there's an easy solution for that. Genetically engineer them to make them go extinct.

      This article on Slashdot is proposing something a *lot* more tame than the specicide proposal. Basically, most genes have a 50% chance of passing on to offspring, but certain "selfish" genes game the system and all but guarantee that they're passed along. So, you make a selfish, lethal, recessive gene -- that is, a mosquito can have one copy and survive just fine. When it mates with a wild mosquito, it'll produce offspring that almost all have the recessive, lethal gene. This will continue until most of the wild population now has the gene -- and then they all start dying off. They can no longer interbreed.

      Because it sweeps through so fast, there's no chance to adapt resistance. The only thing that can save the species is isolated pockets that manage not to interbreed with the outside world, then escape after all of the others are dead. Hence, effective, widespread distribution of the engineered individuals is critical for complete specicide. As for side-effects, not only has localized extinction of the Anopheles mosquito not had any adverse impact on the ecosystem (other insects fill in the gap on the food chain), but current control attempts are not mosquito-specific; they kill *many* species in large numbers, and we do it every year.

      --
      "Is Donald Trump a racist? I'll let you decide 'Yes' for yourself."
    9. Re:Didn't we learn by that+this+is+not+und · · Score: 1

      How does something evolve 'immunity' to a gene??

    10. Re:Didn't we learn by BungaDunga · · Score: 1

      Hey, with the writer's strike on, I could totally see that being made into a movie. Except with humans, guns, and helicopters.

    11. Re:Didn't we learn by Cochonou · · Score: 1

      If you want to read more on the subject, the essential keywords are:
      segregation distortion, meiotic drive, intragenomic conflict.

    12. Re:Didn't we learn by Cassius+Corodes · · Score: 1

      You'll find that the genome developed resistance to that kind of attack a long time ago (random recombination of chromosomes on duplication prevents genes from gaming the system). Plus the situation you describe (a lethal recessive gene) occurs in humans and we do just fine (sickle cell anaemia). The only reason the recessive gene hangs around is that in a carrier state it gives protection from malaria.

      --
      Control is an illusion, order our comforting lie. From chaos, through chaos, into chaos we fly
    13. Re:Didn't we learn by G-News.ch · · Score: 0

      Extinguishing a whole species that is so low in the food chain seems like a dangerous thing to me. Even if other insects fill the resulting gap, that is poised to cause more problems, as it is a change in the ecosystem. I thought we had learned by now that whenever humanity messed around with nature in order to improve something for humans, it usually backfired in some more or less horrible way.
      I don't believe in god, but I don't believe in people playing god either. The real reason why diseases like dengue are flourishing likely lie with the fact that there are too many humans, changing their environment in a way that benefits the mosquitoes and harms their natural enemies. Killing the mosquitoes is just fighting the symptom and shifting it over to the next species that will benefit from the fact that mosquitoes are on the retreat.
      Ecosystems are too complex for people to understand, I wonder why we still can't stop messing around with them.

    14. Re:Didn't we learn by somersault · · Score: 1

      Ecosystems are too complex for people to understand, I wonder why we still can't stop messing around with them. That's just human nature, of course! There's plenty that we don't understand, but we still try to understand it, and of course some people are just jerks who don't care if they screw things up for the rest of us and our descendants.
      --
      which is totally what she said
    15. Re:Didn't we learn by tomhudson · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "Why not breed mosquitoes that are immune to, or can't be carriers of, the Dengue virus?"

      Simple answer - follow the money. Once the modified mosquito is in the wild, if it does have an advantage, it will displace regular mosquitos with no annual expenditure required.

      Its the same reason nobody's looking for a real cure for the common cold - it sells more OTC (over-the-counter) "remedies" than any other disease. And the tie-in sales for kleenex, lysol "kills germs on contact", "antibacterial" soap (since when hasn't a soap been antibacterial), and you're looking at a lot of money.

    16. Re:Didn't we learn by EB+FE · · Score: 1

      Why is it that every time there's a useful advance in genetics, people cite doomsday movies as a valid warning of what will happen?

      --
      Vital papers will demonstrate their vitality by moving to where you can't find them.
    17. Re:Didn't we learn by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Fear of the Unknown.

      Flame bait me but it's also why people believe in God and other such deities.

      Or maybe it's just to look cool, I don't know.

    18. Re:Didn't we learn by EB+FE · · Score: 1

      Amen!

      --
      Vital papers will demonstrate their vitality by moving to where you can't find them.
    19. Re:Didn't we learn by Rei · · Score: 1

      You'll find that the genome developed resistance to that kind of attack a long time ago

      You'll find that you're wrong. They're mimicking a "selfish gene" found in starfish, but there are selfish genes found in many species. Do a google search on pubmed for "selfish gene" (and, perhaps, add "recombination" to your search).

      Plus the situation you describe (a lethal recessive gene)

      Thanks for the straw man, but no thanks. You left out "selfish" from your list. There are no lethal, recessive, selfish genes in humans, or, as far as anyone knows, in any species. Namely, because they're a good way to destroy the species among interbreeding populations. Furthermore, sickle cell anemia is only rarely lethal before reproductive age, so it's irrelevant.

      --
      "Is Donald Trump a racist? I'll let you decide 'Yes' for yourself."
    20. Re:Didn't we learn by Cassius+Corodes · · Score: 1

      I did a pubmed search on selfish gene and found nothing which you talk about - I tried adding starfish as well but there is nothing relevant there. The article dosent mention selfish genes either so I'm not sure where you got it from.

      Sickle cell anemia (two recessive genes) is 100% lethal if modern medicine is not available (constant transfusion of haemoglobin), its not lethal in a carrier form (one recessive gene) as I mentioned. Not sure how that is a straw man.

      --
      Control is an illusion, order our comforting lie. From chaos, through chaos, into chaos we fly
    21. Re:Didn't we learn by Rei · · Score: 1

      Seriously? You didn't find anything like, say, this?

      "The conflict between the host and the RM gene system may have contributed to the spread and maintenance of the RM gene complexes. In this way, they resemble proviruses and other genetic elements that are often called selfish genes or selfish genetic elements (8). In general, two homologous alleles in diploid eukaryotic cells segregate in a one-to-one ratio at meiosis. This Mendelian law of segregation is violated by some genes in a process called ?meiotic drive.? These selfish genes are preferentially transmitted over the other, nonself alleles (8). In particular, the action of maternal-effect selfish genes, which cause postfertilization killing (9), appears to be quite similar to the action of the RM gene complexes, i.e., the loss of the selfish gene leads to killing of the progeny by the residual gene product. Thus, the RM gene complexes warrant the term ?selfish genes? in the genetic sense of the term."

      Not sure how that is a straw man.

      Because sickle cell is not selfish, which was one of the conditions I listed. That'd be like you claiming that wearing lead shoes and being way out at sea without a boat is lethal, and me saying, "Hey, a man survived without a boat recently" while ignoring the lead shoes aspect.

      Sickle cell anemia (two recessive genes) is 100% lethal if modern medicine is not available

      From the Wikipedia article:

      "The allele responsible for sickle-cell anaemia is autosomal recessive and can be found on the short arm of chromosome 11. A person who receives the defective gene from both father and mother develops the disease; a person who receives one defective and one healthy allele remains healthy, but can pass on the disease and is known as a carrier."

      and...

      "The disease is chronic and lifelong. Individuals are most often well, but their lives are punctuated by periodic painful attacks. Life-expectancy is shortened, but contemporary survival data is lacking. Older studies indicated that sufferers could live to an average of 40 to 50 years, with the average age for males being 42 and the average age for females being 48."

      40-50 years isn't past reproductive age why?

      --
      "Is Donald Trump a racist? I'll let you decide 'Yes' for yourself."
  2. Two Words by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    Cane Toads

    1. Re:Two Words by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Cane Toads

      After the fifth or sixth "I'm sorry Mario, but the princess is in another castle," it does become tempting...
    2. Re:Two Words by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A further two words:

      Antediluvian sunscreen

  3. Hmm.... by CyberSnyder · · Score: 2, Funny

    Why am I picturing everyone turning into vampire like creatures???

    1. Re:Hmm.... by ScrewMaster · · Score: 2, Funny

      Why am I picturing everyone turning into vampire like creatures???

      Probably because you just saw "I Am Legend".

      --
      The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
    2. Re:Hmm.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Like this:

      1) GM Mosquitoes breed with Wild Mosquitoes
      2) Offspring becomes resistant to Tetracycline
      3) Genetic mutation keeps going on a retrovirus way
      4) GM Mosquitoes offspring bite monkeys used as test group for GE retrovirus that is supposed to cure Cancer
      5) Those Mosquitoes then bite humans
      6) Humans apparently die of Hemorrhagic Dengue (the second outburst of Dengue on a patient usually is a fatal Hemorrhagic one)
      7) The apparently dead wake up and become indestructible blood-sucking mutants that cannot be exposed to daylight
      8) They take over the World, but then Will Smith survives and the only vaccine is on his blood
      9) We sell this idea to Hollywood and we become rich with a mansion on Fisher Island and a heated pool full of big butt mamis.

      Damn, I like the point number 9!

    3. Re:Hmm.... by barocco · · Score: 1

      Well then the doctors have finally achieved longevity for all of us. This profession can officially retire.

  4. Genetically Engineered Mosquitoes by nitro316 · · Score: 0, Interesting

    WTF? I live in Florida. Several, Several years ago a couple of genius scientists at the University of Florida thought it would be a great idea to release Love Bugs into our environment to breed with the mosquitoes and effectively make them sterile. Well, if anyone has ever been to Florida during the summer, then you know that not only are there an ass load of huge fucking mosquitoes but also a shit load of love bugs. Way to go UF~! So now lets releases genetically engineered super mosquitoes into the environment. Things will be much better!

    Also all hail our new high powered mosquito overlords!

    1. Re:Genetically Engineered Mosquitoes by Whiney+Mac+Fanboy · · Score: 4, Informative

      That sounds suspiciously like an urban legend.

      Hint: How the fuck are you supposed to breed lovebugs & mosquitoes? (Give them tiny little Jacuzzis and Play Barry White at them?)

      --
      There are shills on slashdot. Apparently, I'm one of them.
    2. Re:Genetically Engineered Mosquitoes by wanderingknight · · Score: 2, Informative

      Eh, I don't know who the hell modded this interesting, but these guys (who look a lot more trustworthy than a random Slashdot post) would certainly disagree with it:

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Love_bug#Folklore
      http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/IN694

    3. Re:Genetically Engineered Mosquitoes by MichaelSmith · · Score: 4, Funny

      release Love Bugs into our environment to breed with the mosquitoes and effectively make them sterile. Well, if anyone has ever been to Florida during the summer, then you know that not only are there an ass load of huge fucking mosquitoes but also a shit load of love bugs.

      I am sure cane toads eat love bugs. I can get you a great deal on cane toads. They are priced per 100000 kilos

    4. Re:Genetically Engineered Mosquitoes by blind+biker · · Score: 1

      (Give them tiny little Jacuzzis and Play Barry White at them?) *makes note*
      Thanks dude, I dind't know that was all it took!
      --
      "The agriculture ministry is not in charge of Gundam" - Japanese ministry official.
    5. Re:Genetically Engineered Mosquitoes by nitro316 · · Score: 0

      I take it that you went to UF. BTW who cares about a wiki link. They can be changed to whatever an editor feels like changing the text to as we here at slashdot have seen time and time again.

    6. Re:Genetically Engineered Mosquitoes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hint: How the fuck are you supposed to breed lovebugs & mosquitoes? Tell the lovebugs that they've only got 48 hours to live and they can't waste it worrying if they're mating with the same species? Hey, it works with some humans.
    7. Re:Genetically Engineered Mosquitoes by paralaxcreations · · Score: 1

      The story i heard is that they were engineered as a cheap renewable food supply for bats...a story that sounds about as likely as the one you heard.

      Honestly, after living in Florida for 4 years, i can say the only reason for a massive amount of mosquitoes and lovebugs is because you're sitting in a state that is mostly wetlands, surrounded on all sides by water. Wetlands + mosquitoes = prime breeding grounds.

      Why are the mosquitoes so big? Why the hell is everything in Florida so big? The common Florida "House Spider" is about 5" across (tip-to-tip, not body size). The common Florida scorpion (I forget the name) is so big its tail flops over.

      Compare any bug you see in Florida to its equivalent elsewhere, and you'll see it's a great deal larger. You live in a freaking jungle, for crying out loud.

  5. Jeff Goldblum is Always Right by CheeseburgerBrown · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    That's why I always carry an Apple laptop in the event of belligent extra-terrestrials, and why I get off on belittling Bill Murray's accomplishments as an explorer.

    Spielberg be my shepherd I heard if there first: "Life will find a way..."

    1. Re:Jeff Goldblum is Always Right by nitro316 · · Score: 1, Funny

      How did he know the aliens weren't running a Linux Distro or worse Windows? I would have guessed the mother ship was running Windows Server because of how easy it was to attack all the other workstati... I mean smaller attack ships.

    2. Re:Jeff Goldblum is Always Right by BotnetZombie · · Score: 1

      Powerful enemies, this one has.
      I wonder if the flamebait stamp comes from Bill Murray's or Spielberg's fanbois?

  6. Ripple Effect by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Those mosquitoes might suck (pun intended :P), but they're food for a lot of animals that don't suck. If we just eliminate all the mosquitoes, we probably can't tell how we'll affect the rest of the ecosystem. Eliminating the dengue fever germs will have its effect, but I'm not too worried about depriving the worms of the corpses they're used to growing fat on.

    --

    --
    make install -not war

    1. Re:Ripple Effect by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      Yea. I guess these guys never read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silent_Spring

    2. Re:Ripple Effect by Dutch+Gun · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I'm fairly certain that if someone you cared deeply for was at serious risk of catching Dengue, you really wouldn't give care quite as much how the ecology would fare without those mosquitoes.

      Oh, and take a walk out in a tropical region sometime. You'll quickly realize that the notion of the eco-chain being in any significant peril because one species of insect disappears is a bit far-fetched, I think. The number of insects (both in general number as well as the number of species) is pretty staggering. Species have disappeared all throughout history, and nature is fabulous at filling available niches.

      I'd have no hesitation in pulling the trigger if it mean eliminating every damn mosquito on earth. Sorry if that sounds unenlightened.

      --
      Irony: Agile development has too much intertia to be abandoned now.
    3. Re:Ripple Effect by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Silent Spring is just as factually skewed as the propaganda of any industry or movement which it criticizes, and is hardly the beacon of Truth, Light, and Informed Reason that it is oft made out to be; moreover, its existence in that place tarnishes the integrity environmental movement, and its publication has led to the needless death of millions. You can't say that about many books. (No, even the worst religious warfare is seldom promulgated by the books.)

    4. Re:Ripple Effect by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I met an old lady, who swallowed a fly...

      I guess even the simplest lessons of ecology are lost on us, eh?

    5. Re:Ripple Effect by NeutronCowboy · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I'd have no hesitation in pulling the trigger if it mean eliminating every damn mosquito on earth. Sorry if that sounds unenlightened.

      It's not unenlightened, it's stupid. It displays a staggering ignorance of the effect of introducing foreign species in a new environment (Northern Pike, rabbits, zebra mussel, spanish moss, etc. etc. etc.) or of removing one species from an ecosystem (grizzly bear, star fish, kelp, etc, etc, etc). Finally, you completely overestimate the redundancy and resilience of the tropical rain forests (hint: one controlled burn sets an area back about 400 years in terms of return to normal) and underestimate its complexity (hint: what's the impact of removing fire ants from the system?).

      Feel free to google the terms. I've set you up with enough key terms that you can educate yourself on the impact. The basic point is that we, as a species, have optimized our behavior to the world as it is. Removing (or adding) to our system can have an impact that goes far beyond expectations, with an impact that is staggering in cost. Think Jenga on a global scale.
      --
      Those who can, do. Those who can't, sue.
    6. Re:Ripple Effect by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Not only have I taken a walk in a tropical region, I lived in Southeast Louisiana for years, which is thousands of miles of swamp. I actually got an unidentified virus in Africa most probably from one of the many mosquitoes who bit me while I slept near the Niger River. In New Orleans, we eliminated centuries of Yellow Fever by draining the swamps, not by targeting a species with untested genetic engineering weapons. But even that action has had consequences to the rest of the ecosystem, though at the more familiar level of drainage and flooding.

      Fortunately, public health decisions aren't made by one guy calling themself "Dutch Gun" who wants to just walk around pulling triggers because of their single personal benefit.

      Instead, people with that kind of power typically don't make decisions with at the neural level that slaps at a sting. Instead we think of the actual costs of human intervention, and how that's different from the more integrated processes in nature eliminating species, and learning from when it's the same, and causes a ripple effect that we'd rather not be injured by.

      Biology is perhaps the most complex studyable natural system. Ecosystems are the most complex interactions of biological systems. We have to consider what an apparently "simple", drastic action that destroys an entire species that other species depend on will actually do, before we do it.

      --

      --
      make install -not war

    7. Re:Ripple Effect by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      I'm fairly certain that if someone you cared deeply for was at serious risk of catching Dengue, you really wouldn't give care quite as much how the ecology would fare without those mosquitoes.
      I wish people wouldn't say stuff like this. You're basically saying, "If you only had a bunch of emotions interfering with your logic, you would change your mind." It's anti-reasoning, and it's senseless. The rest of your post was good but raw appeals to emotion like this just demean it.
    8. Re:Ripple Effect by Dutch+Gun · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Brilliant straw-man argument there. You now have me burning down forests, killing grizzly bears, starfish, kelp, and other highly important and relevant species that would obviously have a devastating impact on the environment were they suddenly removed. And yes, I'm well aware that size alone does not necessarily dictate importance in the larger scheme of things (e.g. ocean plankton). But the notion that every single species is equally vital to the ecosystem is simply fallacious to any reasoning mind.

      Yes, I'm well aware of the dangers of introducing species to new areas or making changes of any sort of an ecosystem. I just happen to think that saving so many human lives is worth the risk in this case. I'm sorry you don't feel the same way.

      --
      Irony: Agile development has too much intertia to be abandoned now.
    9. Re:Ripple Effect by markdavis · · Score: 1

      Well, I agree with you, Dutch. If I could flip a switch and make all mosquitos disappear off the face of the earth forever, I would do it without a moment's hestitation. (Although keeping some significant, controlled samples around, "just in case" would be prudent). The amount of human AND animal suffering they inflict far outweighs what little (I believe) effect they probably have in the food chains.

      And you can take fleas right along with them.... almost nothing eats those.

      Now, I would not necessarily advocate doing it by introducing genetically altered beings, however.

    10. Re:Ripple Effect by Assassin+bug · · Score: 1

      Hmmm. That's interesting. You don't know what your talking about. Silent Spring, like its science or not, is the reason that FIFRA was revised to include provisions for the labeling and safe use of pesticides. Many pesticides, especially those that were available in 1947, when FIFRA was originally enacted, were very dangerous to use. Pesticide labeling is a good thing not just for fuzzy bunnies but for people too. Another handy thing about pesticide labels is that companies now do research on effective rates so that you apply only the amount of pesticide needed instead of wasting a lot of money. Ironically, the publication of this book is part of the reason that these genetically modified mosquitoes have been developed -- to reduced the use of pesticides! So, how does safety lead to the "death of millions [of people]"?

    11. Re:Ripple Effect by ChromeAeonium · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      Sorry if that sounds unenlightened. That's not unenlightened at all. What's unenlightened (or rather, naïve) is people claiming they wouldn't do the same. Its easy to talk about all the long lasting effects this might have when the problem is on a different continent, but I bet they'd change their tune if the problem was in their backyard.
      What gets me is these people saying, 'Well, if you support this, you don't like the environment.' Bullshit, I love nature, I'm just not a hypocrite, and unless these people doing something equivalent to dying of malaria for the environment (and obviously they're not, because electronic devices like computers contribute to the destruction of the environment), then that's all they are, hypocrites.
    12. Re:Ripple Effect by paintswithcolour · · Score: 1
      Sure, and what if someone I was cared about was dying from hantavirus, do we wipe out all the rats? When does this end, how many species is it 'ok' to obliterate because they are disease-carrying? Lots of domestic wildlife can carry TB, so I guess they must go too. Oh, and what about poisonous snakes, spiders, jellyfish, I guess the ecosystem can recover if we want to bump them off, because they kill people too. Not even to mention other humans that carry contagious diseases...

      This science leads us down a dangerous and unknown path, a collapse in the eco-system has horrific consequences.

    13. Re:Ripple Effect by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Golly aren't you a righteous little bitch? Okay, how about when the fish starve, and the people starve with 'em?

      No one is saying we shouldn't try to wipe out Dengue, but being aware of the consequences and thus perhaps being able to plan for them is what separates us tree hugging hippies from the mouth-breathing macho "kill 'em all" hicks that we have to end up rescuing down the road.

    14. Re:Ripple Effect by RoyRodgers · · Score: 1

      Wow, Obviously you have never contracted Dengue fever! It hurts so much that you can't believe it. by being against this experiment you are wishing it on 100 million people and you want 5 million to die!!! Think about how you would feel if you got Lyme disease or West Nile encephalitis. Do you swat flies and mosquitoes when they attack? The USA has had dengue in the past when it was called "break bone fever". I am in Southwest Florida and this area is loaded with the Aedes aegypti mosquito. one infected person could cause an outbreak.

    15. Re:Ripple Effect by ibjesses · · Score: 1

      Bats are completely dependent on mosquitoes and, despite their image in movies, are vital to the health of many niches: rain, deciduous and coniferous forests all benefit from bat populations.

    16. Re:Ripple Effect by Dutch+Gun · · Score: 2, Insightful

      In New Orleans, we eliminated centuries of Yellow Fever by draining the swamps, not by targeting a species with untested genetic engineering weapons. Call me crazy, but that sounds more devastating to the environment than the proposals we're discussing. I wish I could find a link, but I seem to recall how scientists are just now discovering that draining the swamps has a more serious impact than they figured (although I can't remember the specifics).

      Fortunately, public health decisions aren't made by one guy calling themself "Dutch Gun" who wants to just walk around pulling triggers because of their single personal benefit. And thank God for that. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't want that responsibility, which is why I presented it in what I thought was a purely hypothetical context as a way to indicate my support of the scientists' efforts. Also, I'm not sure what sort of "personal benefit" I would receive from eliminating those mosquitoes, other than the warm, fuzzy feeling I'd get from saving so many lives.

      Instead, people with that kind of power typically don't make decisions with at the neural level that slaps at a sting. Instead we think of the actual costs of human intervention, and how that's different from the more integrated processes in nature eliminating species, and learning from when it's the same, and causes a ripple effect that we'd rather not be injured by. All snarkiness and bravado aside, I do very much agree with you on this. Obviously, I'm neither in a position to eliminate a species from the face of the earth, nor do I have the foresight or specific education to reliably predict what the effect on the ecosystem will be with the introduction of genetically-modified mosquitoes. That being said, I feel it's equally foolish to automatically react against any sort of genetic solution to a problem because of a lot of worst-case "what-if" postulation by people who aren't remotely qualified to understand the full ramification of genetic modifications and our eco-system. I do sincerely hope, as I'm sure you do, that these decisions are made with the utmost consideration of consequences, both large and small.

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    17. Re:Ripple Effect by NeutronCowboy · · Score: 1

      Brilliant straw-man argument there.

      Examples of unintended consequences are strawmen? Do you even know what a strawman argument is?

      I'm sorry you don't feel the same way.

      Feeling has nothing to do with it. Show me that the cost is smaller than the benefit within a reasonable band of uncertainty, and I'll buy the argument. However, simply stating that removing all mosquitoes from Africa is only going to result in saved lives is naive in the worst possible way.

      Let me repeat it for you: I'm all for saving lives. I'm against saving lives through methods where past experience has shown that there is a massive potential for extremely expensive consequences. Don't fuck with a complex and chaotic system.
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    18. Re:Ripple Effect by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Mosquitos kill more people than any other animal.

      (This is perhaps a good reason to be extremely careful about modifying their DNA.)

      Completely eradicating this pest is something we may genuinely be able to do in the future. We will need to have a thorough discussion not only about the potential consequences to the biosphere, but also simply the morality of destroying a species, no matter how distasteful we find it.

    19. Re:Ripple Effect by Flentil · · Score: 1

      Where do we draw the line? I would draw the first line at 'worthless disease carrying bloodsuckers', targeting all forms of mosquitoes, fleas, and ticks that prey on us humans and our fellow mammals. That would be a great start. Not that we'd need to go any further, but a great start nonetheless. As for the critters who presently dine on mosquitoes, I say let them eat moths.

    20. Re:Ripple Effect by moosesocks · · Score: 1

      Australia: "They're cute little bunny rabbits. What could they possibly do?"

      Along the same lines, by your logic, there's nobody forcing anybody to live in these regions (and all signs seem to indicate taht they're not particularly well-suited for large-scale human habitation, which is likely why large cities don't tend to be located along the equator)

      It's dangerous. And Siberia's cold. Live with it.

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      -- If you try to fail and succeed, which have you done? - Uli's moose
    21. Re:Ripple Effect by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Let me repeat it for you: I'm all for saving lives. I'm against saving lives through methods where past experience has shown that there is a massive potential for extremely expensive consequences. Don't fuck with a complex and chaotic system.
      Says the pasty white fat man "expert" not living in asia or africa....
    22. Re:Ripple Effect by Dutch+Gun · · Score: 1

      Geez, don't you watch Star Trek? Cold, dispassionate logic is not always a virtue, you damn green-blooded Vulcan!

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      Irony: Agile development has too much intertia to be abandoned now.
    23. Re:Ripple Effect by timmarhy · · Score: 1

      nonsense. biological controls have largely been a success in modern times. i hope you catch a mozzie born parasite for your troubles.

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    24. Re:Ripple Effect by TheLink · · Score: 1

      "If we just eliminate all the mosquitoes, we probably can't tell how we'll affect the rest of the ecosystem."

      The US sure didn't care when they eliminated disease bearing mosquitoes from the Southern states. The last I checked it sure didn't hurt the USA. The gains were definitely higher than the losses.

      The rest of the ecosystem can go live on something else or die trying.

      My objection to this approach is it's not even going to wipe them out, so the mosquitoes will just shrug it off after a few generations.

      Decades ago, many countries almost succeeded in ridding themselves of malaria, yellow fever etc with DDT, too bad they stopped before they were done because some people got their priorities wrong.

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    25. Re:Ripple Effect by IndustrialComplex · · Score: 1

      The current methods that are applied involve the use of pestacides that strive to do the exact same thing. Except the pestacides also kill other insects, and stick around in the enviornment.

      Given the choice between the two, making a species of mosquito extinct is actually the least disruptive to the ecosystem.

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      Out of modpoints but really liked a post? 1BDkF6TtmmeZ3yqXbz9yhdYVqRYnwFoXDj
    26. Re:Ripple Effect by IndustrialComplex · · Score: 1

      Don't fuck with a complex and chaotic system.


      Chaos Schmaeous. When I time travel, I intentionally kill every butterfly I find.

      And sometimes, on a warm summer's eve, if you look to the west... you will see, silhouetted against the twilight, the form of a doughnut falling from the sky.

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      Out of modpoints but really liked a post? 1BDkF6TtmmeZ3yqXbz9yhdYVqRYnwFoXDj
    27. Re:Ripple Effect by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 1

      That might be true - pesticides are unnecessarily wasteful. But they don't destroy an entire species, and we don't know how destructive are the ripple effects to those other species that depend on it.

      Just because this new strategy is a choice doesn't mean we have to choose between only those two choices. We could also nuke the swamps, but that's not a good choice, either.

      I think a better choice, if we're going to monkey with the mosquitoes, might be to make the mosquitoes vulnerable to Dengue.

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    28. Re:Ripple Effect by IndustrialComplex · · Score: 2, Funny

      So if we kill the mosquitoes, the bats die.... then the mosquitoes that are dead rise from the grave and become zombie mosquitoes? Fuck that.

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      Out of modpoints but really liked a post? 1BDkF6TtmmeZ3yqXbz9yhdYVqRYnwFoXDj
    29. Re:Ripple Effect by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 1

      No, obviously you think that when someone has something bad happen to them, it's OK to do something possibly even worse to possibly stop it.

      By your flawed logic, since you never had Dengue fever, you shouldn't be eradicating it. Of course that's stupid. But that logic is just as broken as saying what you just said.

      Obviously you've never had your ecosystem collapse because a species many others depended upon was wiped out artifically all at once.

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    30. Re:Ripple Effect by Beyond_GoodandEvil · · Score: 1

      Bats are completely dependent on mosquitoes and, despite their image in movies, are vital to the health of many niches: rain, deciduous and coniferous forests all benefit from bat populations.
      Yeah, and the histoplasmosisis fun to get as well.

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      I laughed at the weak who considered themselves good because they lacked claws.
    31. Re:Ripple Effect by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 1

      Draining a swamp that doesn't make a species extinct doesn't have the potential for a ripple effect through an entire ecosystem as making an entire species extinct.

      The consideration of the ripple effects of extincting and entire species on which others depend doesn't seem to be part of the process here. That is bad in itself. And the kind of people managing an ecosystem who make that kind of fundamental mistake seem to me the kind of people who will make other mistakes. In fact they seem so narrowly focused on genetic engineering a mosquito that they don't seem to be trustworthy to actually manage anything except maybe a single genetic engineering project. And even that is dubious.

      What could possibly go wrong?

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    32. Re:Ripple Effect by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 1

      Yeah, bad priorities in protecting other species, including humans, from DDT, while the mosquitoes just evolved to ignore it.

      Next question, please.

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    33. Re:Ripple Effect by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 1

      That's an excluded middle fallacy. The kind of emotional reaction to being proved wrong that sends starships into black holes. Interesting TV, but bad leadership.

      Just because something isn't always a virtue doesn't mean it's always a sin. If you're now arguing that we should make epidemiological decisions based exclusively on revenge for having gotten sick once, without being checked by logic, then maybe you should hang out with those emotionally damaged people somewhere who just love mosquitoes.

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    34. Re:Ripple Effect by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 1

      That's not a straw man. It's an example that you evidently understand that's equivalent to extincting mosquitoes, which you evidently don't understand.

      Where's your citation to prove that mosquitoes aren't an essential dependency in their ecosystem?

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    35. Re:Ripple Effect by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 1

      And that's why our ecosystems are largely better than they were before modern times :P.

      I hope you starve.

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    36. Re:Ripple Effect by budgenator · · Score: 1

      There are over 2500 species of mosquitoes, we'd like to eliminate 33 to stop various diseases. would hardly put much of a dent in the food chain.

      --
      Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
    37. Re:Ripple Effect by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 1

      It's not fun. But a tiny few people getting histoplasmosis is a lot more fun that the total collapse of an ecosystem if bats went extinct.

      There are other solutions to stopping histoplasmosis than crippling an entire ecosystem.

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    38. Re:Ripple Effect by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 1

      You're not even paying attention. Those species are not "worthless" to the other species that depend on them.

      We might not "need" to go any further, but our action would indeed go further. That's the entire point of this thread, if you'd just pay attention instead of blurting just because you've got a keyboard.

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    39. Re:Ripple Effect by Penicillus · · Score: 1

      Mosquitoes are THE pollinators of many orchid species, and Malaysia has a large, diverse, orchid flora, so Malaysian biologists should consider the effects of greatly reducing the mosquito's numbers before the transformed bugs are released. That said, eliminating or reducing Dengue fever would be significant boon. I am a returned Peace Corps Volunteer from Malaysia. During my service, several of us went camping in the Tamen Negara (National Park) rainforest in the center of the Malay Peninsula. One of our party caught Dengue fever. He became very sick, and we were exceptionally fortunate to be able to get him to a physician in time for treatment, so that he is still with us.

    40. Re:Ripple Effect by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 1

      What a load of crap. What people are saying is that just if your logic is warped by revenge for having caught a disease to the extent that you don't consider the other consequences when you attack it with a crude solution, you shouldn't be the one making the decision. That conflicts of interest are bad for decisionmaking.

      And no one said you don't "love nature". In fact, no one was talking to you at all. What we said was that doing this could be worse for nature, and therefore us, than what's being predicted by people planning it, than other solutions,

      And the idea that the only people who aren't hypocrites are the ones who have gotten the disease or worse before working to eradicate it is the most medievally stupid idea I've heard yet.

      You haven't gotten the disease, so by your logic you're not qualified to comment on it. Why don't you take your own advice, until you get your logic fixed?

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    41. Re:Ripple Effect by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 1

      Not all 2500 are present in the places we're talking about extincting the 33. Do you have science to support this specific proposition that the rest of this specific ecosystem can continue without significant damage from loss of this dependency?

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    42. Re:Ripple Effect by bangthegong · · Score: 1

      how does safety lead to the "death of millions [of people]"?
      It does so because in effect the rich white countries used DDT to eliminate malaria from their territories, then closed the door behind them, leaving Africa to suffer for many more decades with a horrible disease, and all we offered them were bed nets as a solution. Silent Spring was alarmist and took the worst case of DDT applied incorrectly. When used correctly (as it was in the "developed world" of the time) it can be quite effective, since you yourself probably don't sleep under a bed net and have half your family die from malaria. There's a big difference between product labeling and inspiring a cult of luddites.

    43. Re:Ripple Effect by budgenator · · Score: 1
      So, how does safety lead to the "death of millions [of people]"?
      Well lets see Silent Spring which advocated encouraging responsible and carefully managed use which lead to the effective ban on the use of DDT for any purpose,rather than carefully managed approach advocated by Carson herself. The result is

      Malaria is a vector-borne infectious disease caused by protozoan parasites. It is widespread in tropical and subtropical regions, including parts of the Americas, Asia, and Africa. Each year, it causes disease in approximately 515 million people and kills between one and three million people, the majority of whom are young children in Sub-Saharan Africa.[1] Malaria is commonly associated with poverty, but is also a cause of poverty and a major hindrance to economic development. Malaria

      a disease that was in steep decline before Silent Spring is more prevalent than before. Malaria has probably killed more people than are alive.
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      Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
    44. Re:Ripple Effect by budgenator · · Score: 1

      Malaria kills 3 million people a year and it is spread by mosquitoes so your concern for saving lives is obvious. Hell if we got rid of malaria, Sally Struthers might have to find a new job.

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      Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
    45. Re:Ripple Effect by Assassin+bug · · Score: 1

      Oh, you mean alarmist organizations like the WHO? My point stands, safety standards were enacted because of Silent Spring and we are better off for the standards. These are not just product labels, but safe use standard operating procedures (look at one yourself). Look, DDT largely was being applied incorrectly in the early 1900's. This shouldn't be surprising since the chemicals being used were developed during wartime and represented new technology. As anyone on Slashdot should know, standards usually lag behind new technology. Furthermore, no one "shut the door" on DDT use -- It IS currently being used to fight malaria (see above WHO document). In fact DDT has been used so frequently in countries like Africa there are populations of DDT-resistant mosquitoes (another justification for the development of genetically modified mosquitoes). And, for your information, I have slept under a bed net in Kenya and Tanzania and I have spent a year of my life fighting a mosquito-borne virus that at one point had me unconscious for an extended period of time. No one in my family has died from malaria but you point is mute because DDT is used (it was great while it lasted), its efficacy is failing, and an alternative is needed. Again, Silent Spring has improved pesticide safety and has nothing remotely in common with the outbreak of malaria and "death of millions".

    46. Re:Ripple Effect by Assassin+bug · · Score: 1

      Accept according to the WHO, your information on DDT use is dead wrong.

    47. Re:Ripple Effect by ChromeAeonium · · Score: 1

      Don't get me wrong, I'm not denying that the cure had the potential to be worse than the disease in this case, and I really wish people would consider better solutions that don't mess with the entire food chain, I'm just saying that if I, or mostly anyone, were in the position to be affected by this, we'd probably take our chances. Its not a crude revenge, its living by any means necessary.

      I call them hypocrites because, in order to sustain the average modern lifestyle, a lot of nature must be sacrificed. Think of all the water required, pollutants produced, and forests logged in the process of making all the goods, necessary and otherwise, that we all use everyday. Unless they grow their own food, make their own clothes, and live without electricity, they're hypocrites. What right do we have to talk about the environment when someone else wants to do the same thing we do in excess every day to save themselves?

    48. Re:Ripple Effect by Johnny5000 · · Score: 1

      The amount of human AND animal suffering they inflict far outweighs what little (I believe) effect they probably have in the food chains.


      The prevention of disease helps fuel a human population explosion, which does have a rather significant effect on food chains.

      --
      The libertarian solution to the failures of capitalism is to apply more capitalism til the failures are fixed.
    49. Re:Ripple Effect by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 1

      People who want a better solution than one that's worse than the problem aren't hypocrites just because they're not suffering from the problem.

      It's like saying that only men can have a position on war, only women have a position on childbirth, only children have a position on primary education. Obviously many people are qualified to help process the problem, even those without something material at stake. In fact, since those stakes can often cloud one's judgement of possible damaging consequences, especially when that damage could be done to other people, not oneself, having dispassionate people without a directly vested interest involved in the solution usually helps make it more balanced.

      The only reason humans are in a position to make these kinds of dramatic changes in our environment is because we can work together on problems without requiring that we experience their damage directly. That empathy is key to the human cooperation that puts us in these positions of power.

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    50. Re:Ripple Effect by jvkjvk · · Score: 1

      Yes, I'm well aware of the dangers of introducing species to new areas or making changes of any sort of an ecosystem. I just happen to think that saving so many human lives is worth the risk in this case. I'm sorry you don't feel the same way. And, just what are the risks, in your estimation? You advocated removing an entire species - the mosquito - from the earth's biosphere. And you have no problem with that, as it will save the lives of many humans.

      But, I don't think you can even calculate the risks involved. I don't think anyone can. You glibly assert that the ecosystem can handle it. Well, yes, the earth's biosphere will likely continue without the mosquito, after a series of cascading readjustments before coming to a new equilibrium. Did you catch that last part? Cascading readjustments.

      The question is not whether the ecosystem can handle it, but what effect will it have on a particular species - humans! Since that appears to be your end-all concern, I'm surprised that you don't seem to have thought it out that far. We have a short term gain in human lives saved and an unknown amount of risk of our ability to survive the new equilibrium.
    51. Re:Ripple Effect by Azghoul · · Score: 1

      The same population explosion that's causing relatively disease-free places like Europe and the U.S. to grow at exponential rates? Oh yeah, right.........

    52. Re:Ripple Effect by RexRhino · · Score: 1

      DDT *IS* used for mosquito control, because many countries have resisted the pressure by rich western nations to stop using DDT. However, DDT use dropped drasticly because it is no longer a significant part of international aid.

    53. Re:Ripple Effect by RexRhino · · Score: 1

      Now, I would not necessarily advocate doing it by introducing genetically altered beings, however. But your opinion on appropriate and inappropriate ways to find mosquitos, probably has something to do with the fact that your family and children are at zero risk of catching Dengue fever.

      If 5,000,000 people a year where dying in Europe, or North America, and your family was at risk, your opinions might change.
    54. Re:Ripple Effect by RexRhino · · Score: 1

      I wish people wouldn't say stuff like this. You're basically saying, "If you only had a bunch of emotions interfering with your logic, you would change your mind." It's anti-reasoning, and it's senseless. The rest of your post was good but raw appeals to emotion like this just demean it. Virtually all government policy is based on emotional hysterical arguements like this.
    55. Re:Ripple Effect by Johnny5000 · · Score: 1

      The same population explosion that's causing relatively disease-free places like Europe and the U.S. to grow at exponential rates? Oh yeah, right.........

      The US/European population boom came and went already. Then the population stabilized due to increased access to birth control and people choosing not to have children.

      Other checks on population growth (besides birth control) are war, famine, and disease. If we're going to wipe out diseases, we had better increase access to birth control, or else war and famine will help pick up the slack.

      --
      The libertarian solution to the failures of capitalism is to apply more capitalism til the failures are fixed.
    56. Re:Ripple Effect by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hippies wouldn't save anybody.

    57. Re:Ripple Effect by mOdQuArK! · · Score: 1

      Some species ARE more important to the ecosystem than others, and mosquitoes happen to form a fairly large food source for quite a few creatures.

    58. Re:Ripple Effect by budgenator · · Score: 1
      3 million people a year die from Malaria, mostly children, another 2 million a year die from the resulting economic and geopolitical chaos; the mosquitoes that carry Malaria can be stopped by,
      1. Genetically modified mosquitoes being released,
      2. Wide spread use of DDT,

      get some fucking priorities.
      --
      Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
    59. Re:Ripple Effect by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 1

      DDT once looked like a great idea. Millions more will die from environmental collapse when we continue to just ignore the consequences of our drastic interventions.

      These decisions require more info than just their direct effects.

      Get some fucking perspective.

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    60. Re:Ripple Effect by budgenator · · Score: 1

      So are you going to be the one to tell millions of grieving parents that their children died so that the American National Bird could survive? I'm getting eaten alive by Tiger Mosquitoes accidentally imported from Asia each summer, getting rid of all the mosquitoes that carry deadly diseases in Africa will at most reduce the overall mosquitoes population until some other species of mosquitoes take up the slack.

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      Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
    61. Re:Ripple Effect by marcosdumay · · Score: 1

      "In New Orleans, we eliminated centuries of Yellow Fever by draining the swamps, not by targeting a species with untested genetic engineering weapons. But even that action has had consequences to the rest of the ecosystem..."

      Really? I'd never expect that draining swamps would impact the environment. Quite a minor change, nothing comparable to extinguishing one mosquito species, out of the hundreds that occupy the same area.

    62. Re:Ripple Effect by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Virtually all government policy is based on emotional hysterical arguements like this.
      What's your point? If you're trying to tell me that virtually all government policy is nonsensical and irrational, I knew that already.
    63. Re:Ripple Effect by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 1

      You might expect draining a swamp to have an impact, but not the same as species extinction (especially over a much larger area than 1/3 of 1930s New Orleans).

      But if you did expect it, you would be informed by millennia of experience draining swamps. It might have been an unknown risk sometime in the distant past, but in the 1930s the impact was predictable. Not only is this species extinction not predictable, but its impact isn't even being considered, as far as the article we're discussing reveals. Which indicates serious problems in how responsible are the people going ahead with it.

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    64. Re:Ripple Effect by Lije+Baley · · Score: 1

      Doc, you're one to talk about "pulling triggers" for "personal benefit". It seems you spend an awful lot of time pushing people's buttons for a personal "karma rush". And you're just one guy calling yourself "Doc Ruby". I'm lead to think you've slipped a bit today from your normal, carefully-honed, "God of the naive college students" role.

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      Strange things are afoot at the Circle-K.
    65. Re:Ripple Effect by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What could go wrong? What could go wrong? The problem is, you keep speculating about a doomsday scenario with no real evidence or insight. Can you even consider that it might be worth the cost? No, you know better than these scientists because, OMG, GMO!

    66. Re:Ripple Effect by Dutch+Gun · · Score: 1

      Sigh... Is it only funny if it has a +Funny moderation next to it? I can't believe you called a Star Trek joke a "false dilemma". Fine, here's the humor-impaired version:

      It's not necessarily a virtue to make all decisions based on logic, just like it's a terrible mistake to allow one's emotions to rule decision-making. My point in pointing out hypocrisy is simply to counter the absurd "conviction" some people show toward protecting the environment, but only when their own immediate interests are not at stake.

      And you know, I find it amusing that you believe the emotion driving my decision-making must be revenge, or some bizarre hatred of mosquitoes. I mean, what other possible emotion could possibly account for someone wanting to save 5 million people a year from an agonizing death?

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      Irony: Agile development has too much intertia to be abandoned now.
    67. Re:Ripple Effect by cyphercell · · Score: 1

      eliminating disease would simply trade a humanitarian issue for an economic problem, I don't think it is necessarily beyond our means, maybe more of a problem than us in the first world want to help out with, but that is similar to saying "let them eat cake"

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      Under the influence of Post-Cyberpunk Gonzo Journalism
    68. Re:Ripple Effect by PermanentMarker · · Score: 1

      hm what i wonder is that mosquitoes evolve.
      Therefore simple genetics would rule and the mosquitoes who die early can not pass trough their genes.
      Only the best genes will survive; or worse dengeu fever might evolve..

      Have we ever actualy improved nature by genetics ?.
      I mean these days GM maise genes turn up in all kind of plants..

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      I know you're out there. I can feel you now. I know that you're afraid. You're afraid of us. You're afraid of change.
  7. But... what's the long term impact of this? by drspliff · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I really don't know enough to speculate, but one question is: what's the long term ecological and biological impact going to be?

    If these things don't breed... then they start dying off? Then what happens when the mosquito population severly reduced, will other insects take their place, or will the ones naturally immune to this grow bigger etc...

    Although, a world without mosquitos would be nice :D

    1. Re:But... what's the long term impact of this? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I too worry about the consequences, since other introduced species have cause so many problems, but they aren't trying to eliminate mosquitoes, just one species. They are also not introducing another species, just a mutant of the one the want to eliminate. Still, has this type of thing ever worked as planned? I can think of lots of horror stories, but few successes, but maybe the horror is more noticeable.

    2. Re:But... what's the long term impact of this? by Cosmic+AC · · Score: 1

      I'm not too worried, especially since mosquitoes are parasites (we try to eradicate diseases and other parasites, why not mosquitoes?). Ecosystems have been "disrupted" frequently throughout the course of life on earth, due natural disasters, mass extinctions, etc. Eventually, other life adjusts, and equilibrium returns. It is easy to get paranoid about the possibility of a species goes extinct, not so easy to actually predict the impact. But the idea that all life, all the time, is desirable and should be preserved in the same state forever doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. You have to consider the costs, as well as the benefits, of mosquitoes. And what about places like Hawaii, where there were no mosquitoes until they were introduced by man? Hawaiian biota managed to do just fine before mosquitoes were introduced. Surely it wouldn't be a terrible thing to eradicate them there?

    3. Re:But... what's the long term impact of this? by Mr.+Roadkill · · Score: 3, Insightful

      And what about places like Hawaii, where there were no mosquitoes until they were introduced by man? Hawaiian biota managed to do just fine before mosquitoes were introduced. Surely it wouldn't be a terrible thing to eradicate them there?
      Eradicating mosquitoes in Hawaii probably wouldn't cause a major ecological disruption - unless the mosquitoes themselves had completely displaced some other organism in some niche (as either prey or predator) - but it's harder to say what would happen elsewhere. What happens to all the things that eat mosquitoes and mosquito larvae if there aren't any mosquitoes? Also, for much of the time, mosquitoes are nectar-feeders too - so if there are plants that depend primarily on mosquitoes for pollination, there could be an impact on organisms that depend on those plants. Sure, life adjusts, and a new equilibrium is established - eventually. That still doesn't mean we shouldn't be damn careful, because in the meantime there's a chance that we could do something that we'd find extremely inconvenient or unfortunate.
    4. Re:But... what's the long term impact of this? by blind+biker · · Score: 1

      If these things don't breed... then they start dying off? Then what happens when the mosquito population severly reduced One can only hope...

      Sorry, don't mind me - my problem is that I am allergic to mosquito bites (some more than others). One single mosquito can spoil an entire day for me, and transform it into hell.
      --
      "The agriculture ministry is not in charge of Gundam" - Japanese ministry official.
    5. Re:But... what's the long term impact of this? by Cosmic+AC · · Score: 1

      What happens to all the things that eat mosquitoes and mosquito larvae if there aren't any mosquitoes? Anything that relies solely on mosquito larvae for food would die. Then, anything that relies solely on these predators for food would die, and so on. What is the overall impact of that? Neither of us have the answer. But we do know that many species have gone extinct in the time period that humans have existed, with much less of an impact on human health than mosquitoes are currently having.

      That still doesn't mean we shouldn't be damn careful, because in the meantime there's a chance that we could do something that we'd find extremely inconvenient or unfortunate. I never said we shouldn't be careful, just that we should weigh the costs and benefits. There will always be some disruption caused by the removal an entire species from an ecosystem, but that doesn't mean we couldn't tolerate it, or that the harm it might cause to humans would be greater than that already caused by mosquitoes.
    6. Re:But... what's the long term impact of this? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, for one, the bat population will significantly decrease!

      Same for dragonflies.

      Same for crane flies. (I used to think these were huge mosquitos.)

      Same for geckos.

      Same for swallows, martins, swifts, night hawks and the chuck-will's widow.

      Aside from this, I've read that mosquitos also feed on nectar for a while,
      which seems like they'd probably help pollinate. (You've heard of bees declining
      and concern about how crops will be pollinated?)

      On a completely different note, I've heard a suggestion to drop G.W. Bush onto Malysia, instead of the genetically altered mosquitos, to get those terrorist mosquitos inline.

    7. Re:But... what's the long term impact of this? by rwiggers · · Score: 1

      Yep, the important detail is that this mosquito is an alien species in quite a lot of places. And it seems much better targeted than the tons of insecticide thrown in the air now. The lack of mosquitoes in URBAN area isn't much of an ecological problem.

  8. Crucial antibiotic... by boundary · · Score: 5, Funny

    Jesus, I hope they don't start raiding pharmacies for their fix!

    1. Re:Crucial antibiotic... by jessiej · · Score: 1

      die before they are able to breed if they are not supplied with a crucial antibiotic And who or what exactly is supplying the "crucial antibiotic"? Are they planning on blanketing swamps with antibiotics?
  9. Whatcouldpossiblygowrong by caller9 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Am I the only one that's noticed a ton of these "whatcouldpossiblygowrong" tags recently. Did the mad scientist class of '07 get to work quickly or what? Who is throwing all this money at applying knowledge we barely have to applications we can't imagine the repercussions of. Some of this stuff could turn out a little worse than introducing cats to Australia, if you catch my meaning.

    1. Re:Whatcouldpossiblygowrong by Narcocide · · Score: 1

      It was rabbits, actually just 24 of them that caused the mass ecological devastation of Australia.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rabbits_in_Australia

    2. Re:Whatcouldpossiblygowrong by Max+Littlemore · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Actually it was European humans. From this story, it looks like they're about to strike again.

      --
      I don't therefore I'm not.
    3. Re:Whatcouldpossiblygowrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually it was Aboriginal humans about 50,000 years ago - but it is not PC to mention the much greater mass extinctions that THEY caused.

      They probably changed much of the continent's ecology too - It had far more rain forest than it does now. Aboriginal people use controlled burning to help the way they hunt. This caused the landscape to favour eucalyptus trees which recover better from fires than rain forest trees - Unfortunately eucalyptus trees transpirate less than most other types, causing the amount of available water vapour to go down and the temperature to go up in these areas. This caused an dramatic change in local climate.

    4. Re:Whatcouldpossiblygowrong by caller9 · · Score: 1

      You're right rabbits had a big impact. But I'm right too. http://www.messybeast.com/ausdilemma.htm

      Also: "In Australia the term feral cat refers to cats living and breeding entirely in the wild. Significant populations of wildlife in Australia, including marsupials, reptiles, and birds, poorly adapted to this efficient predator, have allowed the establishment of stable populations across most of the country." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feral_cat

      Cats are also generally despised and must be licensed according to a friend fresh from a New Zealand/Australia trip, which is second hand hearsay for what its worth.

    5. Re:Whatcouldpossiblygowrong by TapeCutter · · Score: 1

      Rabbits are not the only major introduced pests. We also have: cats, dogs, foxes, goats, donkeys, pigs, horses, water buffalo, cane toads, and more fucking camels than Saudia Arabia.

      --
      And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
    6. Re:Whatcouldpossiblygowrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Feral dogs are as much of a problem. They are not as efficient at hunting as cats, or foxes, but they interbreed with the local dingo population.
      Dogs also appear to tolerate drought better than cats, so they tend to survive better in the desert.
      Australians (I am one too) like dogs, so they are not thought of as a pest. It may be something in our character which means that we do not relate well to an independent animal like a cat, but prefer the dependent, fawning dog.

    7. Re:Whatcouldpossiblygowrong by Kadin2048 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Well, if you consider the megafauna, European humans were probably only the last of a long line of troublemakers on that (as well as other) continents. Driving other species into extinction is something we seem to do fairly well, and have tens of thousands of years of practice at.

      Interestingly though, I've read in several places now the theory that human agriculture may have been developed in direct response to our destruction of the animal herds that hunter-gatherer culture depended on. Civilization, such as it is, can be viewed in one light as a coping strategy when our much easier original lifestyle was no longer practicable.

      --
      "Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
    8. Re:Whatcouldpossiblygowrong by QuoteMstr · · Score: 1

      Anything technically possible will be tried eventually. Even if a technological advance turns out to be a loser at first, sometimes we need to try it and either refine it, or learn about alternatives. If we never try anything, we make no progress, and might as well sit on our hands.

      Remember those folks who didn't want Galileo, the probe to Jupiter, launched because it had a few kilograms of plutonium? What about the ones who didn't want CERN's new particle accelerator built because they were afraid miniature black holes would be created?

      We live in a risky world, and we have to take risks to make progress. Besides, these risks are minimal compared to the ones you probably take every day, driving to work.

    9. Re:Whatcouldpossiblygowrong by QuoteMstr · · Score: 1

      Similarly, early human settlers wiped out the North American megafauna when they arrived.

    10. Re:Whatcouldpossiblygowrong by TheDugong · · Score: 1

      Cats and foxes as well. The rabbits aren't taking out the bilby, little/fairy penguins etc. Where's Emperor Nasi Goreng and his wall to keep the cats out!

    11. Re:Whatcouldpossiblygowrong by antic · · Score: 1

      The sequence that gave us cane toads is probably a better example of "whatcouldpossiblygowrong"!

      That said, I really can't stand mosquitoes so I'm happy to support the risk in this instance.

      --
      'Thats they exact same thing a banana wrench monkey.'
    12. Re:Whatcouldpossiblygowrong by caller9 · · Score: 1

      Why not simulate it first?

    13. Re:Whatcouldpossiblygowrong by Cassius+Corodes · · Score: 1

      When they were about to start the first nuclear chain-reaction they calculated it had a very small chance of never stopping and causing the universe to be destroyed (They werent 100% sure if it would stop by itself as we now know it does).

      I sort of find it scary that they went ahead anyway. I mean sure if there is a chance of you getting killed - or even a whole area getting destroyed - that's a decision you can make, but the whole universe? Who has the right to gamble everyone's lives?

      I'm not saying we should stop all of science on the off chance that something bad could happen - but we should be more careful about what we are doing when we play with dangerous experiments.

      --
      Control is an illusion, order our comforting lie. From chaos, through chaos, into chaos we fly
    14. Re:Whatcouldpossiblygowrong by Gabrill · · Score: 1

      Practicable. Heh heh you said "practicable."

      --
      Always going forward, 'cause we can't find reverse.
    15. Re:Whatcouldpossiblygowrong by mlyle · · Score: 1

      What you're thinking of, from the Wikipedia article on the Manhattan Project:

      Teller also raised the speculative possibility that an atomic bomb might "ignite" the atmosphere, because of a hypothetical fusion reaction of nitrogen nuclei. Bethe calculated, according to Serber, that it could not happen. In his book The Road from Los Alamos, Bethe says a refutation was written by Konopinski, C. Marvin, and Teller as report LA-602, showing that ignition of the atmosphere was impossible, not just unlikely.[5] In Serber's account, Oppenheimer mentioned it to Arthur Compton, who "didn't have enough sense to shut up about it. It somehow got into a document that went to Washington" which led to the question "never [being] laid to rest".[6]

      People endlessly repeat the "[mainstream] physicists thought atomic bomb could have 'ignited' the atmosphere/destroy the universe/etc etc" thing, when it's clearly not true. But it's a nice urban legend to hear from one person and repeat to someone else without fact checking.

  10. Are mosquitos important? by rastoboy29 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I have often wondered (living in the mosquito-ridden South), if mosquitoes have any benefit to the ecosystem at all.  We often hear about how if you remove one creature from the ecosystem, the whole thing changes.  But mosquitoes?  I'm not sure they would be missed by any creature. 

    1. Re:Are mosquitos important? by Nysem · · Score: 1

      http://www.mosquito-netting.com/predators.html/

      That mosquito fish sounds pretty badass. Where can I get one?

    2. Re:Are mosquitos important? by Whiney+Mac+Fanboy · · Score: 5, Insightful
      I have often wondered (living in the mosquito-ridden South), if mosquitoes have any benefit to the ecosystem at all.

      Bottom line is that Mosquito larvae are extremely beneficial to ecosystems (as food). Read this for a quick overview. Contains the quote:

      mosquito larvae might be pictured as: "small machines that transform algae, bacteria and organic matter into compact packages of protein.
      If you want to read something a little more specific to the south, try this Mosquito Virtues article.
      --
      There are shills on slashdot. Apparently, I'm one of them.
    3. Re:Are mosquitos important? by MichaelSmith · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Bottom line is that Mosquito larvae are extremely beneficial to ecosystems (as food)

      Back when my wife and I had just bought our house I installed two small ponds. Within days we were being bitten alive by mosquitoes. You could see the larvae swimming around in the ponds. We went down to the local creek and returned with a couple of dozen small fish. Within two days we had our result. Hardly any mozzies and fish twice the size.

    4. Re:Are mosquitos important? by y86 · · Score: 1

      I live in Beverly Hills, Florida....

      I never see mosquitos -- you know why? Since the county pest controls them all by spraying poison.

      Argue this, and argue that, but if we can control the mosquitoes without spraying 1000's of gallons of chemicals I think everyone wins(green morons, conservative death mongers).. well everyone except the mosquitoes :-)

    5. Re:Are mosquitos important? by DieByWire · · Score: 4, Informative

      I have often wondered (living in the mosquito-ridden South), if mosquitoes have any benefit to the ecosystem at all. We often hear about how if you remove one creature from the ecosystem, the whole thing changes. But mosquitoes? I'm not sure they would be missed by any creature.

      There are many species of mosquitos, not all (or even most IIRC) of which bite humans. There's no need - and no way - to wipe out all mosquitos. Hammering the specific species that transmit deadly diseases to humans is an ecological engineering project and moral choice that I think most humans are comfortable with, though.

      The effort in the article specifically attacks one species - the Aedes aegypti mosquito.

      --
      Never shake hands with a man you meet in a fertility clinic.
    6. Re:Are mosquitos important? by Sergeant+Pepper · · Score: 1

      the mosquito-ridden South You think the South has it bad... try coming up here to Minnesota - we have it real bad, don'tcha know.

      /fargo
    7. Re:Are mosquitos important? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Very clever :)

    8. Re:Are mosquitos important? by Tablizer · · Score: 1

      Back when my wife and I had just bought our house I installed two small ponds. Within days we were being bitten alive by mosquitoes.

      Just how does one "install" a pond? Plug it into a USB port? What shape is the box? Can you take it back if you keep the receipt?

    9. Re:Are mosquitos important? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Buy two ponds, and get a cloud for free

    10. Re:Are mosquitos important? by MichaelSmith · · Score: 1

      Just how does one "install" a pond?

      Buy a fibreglass pond shell from the hardware store. Then dig a hole with the appropriate dimensions and drop the pond into the hole. Then fill it with water.

      Plug it into a USB port?

      I am sure there is a way to do that, but I did buy a mains powered water pump with an integrated filter. It helps to keep the muck out of the water and oxygen in.

      What shape is the box?

      Same shape as the pond, only slightly bigger ;)

      Can you take it back if you keep the receipt?

      Yes.

      It is probably worth noting that I live in a dry part of the world where water poured into a freshly dug hole in the ground will quickly soak in. So an artificial barrier is required.

    11. Re:Are mosquitos important? by QQ2 · · Score: 1

      Others have replied stating the benefits of mosquito's in relationship to plants etc.
      However my biology teacher used to say that mosquito's and the fact that they suck blood is actually pretty fantastic (from a food chain perspective). How many other creatures are there that directly convert parts from the top of the food chain into food for its middle region?

    12. Re:Are mosquitos important? by Odonian · · Score: 1

      The 'benefit' of mosquitoes, like other parasites, is that they spread disease. While this hardly sounds like a benefit from the human perspective, at the ecosystem level this works to reduce populations and encourage natural selection. This works to ensure the population remains strong, but does not grow to overwhelm the food supply or other species.

    13. Re:Are mosquitos important? by dwye · · Score: 1

      I have often wondered (living in the mosquito-ridden South), if mosquitoes have any benefit to the ecosystem at all. We often hear about how if you remove one creature from the ecosystem, the whole thing changes. But mosquitoes? I'm not sure they would be missed by any creature.

      Parasites and predators prevent an ecosystem from being totally dominated by the "best" animal for that niche. This increase in diversity is better in the long run, but no victim will be grateful to the wolf eating its vitals or the mosquito giving it Dengue Fever, Malaria, or Yellow Fever (to pick some diseases with single species vectors).

  11. Won't Work by theshibboleth · · Score: 4, Interesting
    I don't really understand how the company can expect this approach to work. From the article:

    Oxitec's technique is considered less controversial by some scientists because the genetically modified insects are programmed to die, not take over the existing mosquito population.
    If the modified mosquitoes are to have any effect they must replace the wild mosquitoes. Otherwise, the wild mosquitoes will still continue to transmit dengue to humans. The article doesn't say whether offspring of wild and modified mosquito live long enough to breed nor what proportion of them still depend on tetracycline, but if you have two populations, one that dies young and another that doesn't and is thus able to breed longer, the longer-lived population will outcompete the short-lived one. Thus if the goal of this is replacement, that too would not work. At best they could hope to kill off maybe half of the mosquito population and thereby reduce dengue fever in the short-term, but doing so could unbalance the ecosystem and potentially have negative effects, including disease, for humans. Maybe a better approach would be to create mosquitoes that only die if they are infected with dengue fever.
    1. Re:Won't Work by jamesh · · Score: 1

      Maybe a better approach would be to create mosquitoes that only die if they are infected with dengue fever.

      That's the obvious solution, but it's probably a bit harder.
    2. Re:Won't Work by Big+Bob+the+Finder · · Score: 4, Interesting
      Just a stab in the dark, as I don't really have any special insight here. But it would seem likely the concept is to breed large quantities of GMO'd mosquitoes in the lab (providing them with the antibiotic throughout their life cycle), and then release them into the wild. They would then mate with wild-type skeeters, producing offspring with the gene. When those offspring fail to reach maturity because of the absence of tetracycline, it reduces the number of mosquitoes in the wild.

      This is not exactly a new concept, although the implementation is quite different. Cattle screw worm (which was a serious economic pest) has been eliminated from North and South America from an aggressive irradiation program in which larvae are reared in large numbers, and then irradiated with cobalt-60. Insert your own "huge, radioactive flies" joke here, but the net upshot is that the irradiated flies mated with irradiated flies and failed to produce fertile offspring for whatever reason. Fewer fertile offspring is a good thing when it comes to population control of undesirable cattle parasites.

      Similar programs with Mediterranean fruit flies have been used to control or eradicate populations, but there were some issues a few years back with making sure they really were sterilized by the procedure.

      So, it's nothing *that* new, and variations on the technique have proven useful in the past. Now instead of green, glow-in-the-dark flies, we'll just have mutant, GMO'd mosquitoes. Life goes on- hopefully without dengue. Maybe someday without malaria.

    3. Re:Won't Work by Cosmic+AC · · Score: 1

      The article doesn't say whether offspring of wild and modified mosquito live long enough to breed...
      Yes it does:

      ...it can decimate mosquito populations by breeding genetically modified male mosquitoes, then releasing them to mate with wild females. Their offspring contain lethal genes that kill them young, before they can reproduce. The modified offspring not only compete for resources with normal mosquitoes, but replace the normal offspring that the wild females that mate them would have had. That's how it works.
    4. Re:Won't Work by theshibboleth · · Score: 1

      I stand corrected. It seems then that to work this would require a few waves of releases of GMO'd mosquitoes.

    5. Re:Won't Work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      tetracycline, really?

      poor 'skeeters are gonna have really bad acne too. suddenly i feel sorry for them all dying as virgins. :(

    6. Re:Won't Work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I am sure this all sounds like a good idea until the day an irradiated cattle screw worm bites some student on a field trip.

  12. flying needles by tonyahn · · Score: 4, Interesting

    what will they come up with next? Maybe they can genetically alter the mosquitos to carry our flu shots.

    1. Re:flying needles by repapetilto · · Score: 1

      thats a far fetched but genius idea worth investigation, hello thesis.

    2. Re:flying needles by Lunar_Lamp · · Score: 1

      Unfortunately it's not really a starter (though there was about 5s where I was mentally drafting a proposal). Each year the vaccinations are made against particular strains of the influenza virus. How do scientists know which strains are going to be popular though? The short answer is that they don't, they look at the prevalent strains etc and try to predict what strains are likely to be around when it gets to "flu season". I'm always amazed at how effective this seems to be, as the influenza virus has some amazingly nifty gene shuffling tactics to make sure that it's always a case of trying to hit a moving target. So we'd need to release either a new mosquito into the environment each year, develop a totally novel vaccine, or breed mosquitoes that are capable of either "predicting" future virus mutations.

      Further, as for using mosquitoes as a vector for drugs, it's likely that it would be cheaper to just use a good old-fashioned needle. Still, it's a nice idea.
    3. Re:flying needles by repapetilto · · Score: 1

      well yea theres a lot to be worked out, the main problem I thought of was it was basically indiscriminant vaccination, something people probably would not want. It sure sounds cool though.

  13. The Eco-Nut replies are telling by ZWithaPGGB · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Lots of people worried about birds or "The Ecosystem". Very few seem to be worried about the millions of PEOPLE who die HORRIBLE DEATHS thanks to Dengue fever.

    I guess it's to be expected from the "Silent Spring" crowd, who refuse to acknowledge that the REAL effect of banning DDT has been millions of deaths from malaria, against a hypothetical doomsday scenario. Sound familiar?

    1. Re:The Eco-Nut replies are telling by Nemilar · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You're failing to take into account the big picture. People worry about the ecosystem because people are a part of the ecosystem. What affects one section of it, affects it all, including us.

      It won't do people very good if, because we wipe out one creature, another creature dies out, and then another, and so on. It's called a food-chain, and an eco-system for this very reason.

      --
      Nemilar http://www.techthrob.com - Visit Me!
    2. Re:The Eco-Nut replies are telling by OrtegaPeru · · Score: 1

      I can think of a whole range of species that would most-likely go extinct without mosquitos. The decline of these plants and animals could affect any number of species and could eventually affect us in ways we couldn't have imagined. From an evolutionary standpoint we should probably let people with diseases die from those diseases so as to strengthen the gene pool and keep the population in check (and trust me, nobody talks about it now but population is probably the most important long-term human issue after pollution). Of course we won't just let people die because they are our friends and loved ones, but the ethical thing to do is to figure out a way to cure these diseases with medicine we make ourselves so as to limit our damaging effects on the environment.

    3. Re:The Eco-Nut replies are telling by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Lots of people worried about birds or "The Ecosystem". Very few seem to be worried about the millions of PEOPLE who die HORRIBLE DEATHS thanks to Dengue fever. People are part of the ecosystem too.

      Fuck with "the ecosystem" and you risk secondary and tertiary effects that may produce dramatic changes for people too.

      I guess it's to be expected from the "Silent Spring" crowd, who refuse to acknowledge that the REAL effect of banning DDT has been millions of deaths from malaria, against a hypothetical doomsday scenario. Sound familiar? Lol! PERFECT example of your own short-sightedness. DDT was banned because it was really fucking up PEOPLE - not the "ecosystem." It looks like DDT would be the lesser of two evils now. But are you so sure that these genetically modified mosquitoes are really the lesser of two evils? How do you know that? Are you so sure there aren't any other options?

      Did you see that news article today about how partisan people are all about the emotional reaction rather than rational? Your use of term "Eco-Nut" and your simplistic framing of the discussion all point to a partisan opinion on your part.
      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    4. Re:The Eco-Nut replies are telling by DeathElk · · Score: 1

      The planet on which we live has existed for millions of years in a state of balance. When one species becomes too dominant in a region, that species inevitably suffers and dies off due to lack of food, water or comfort.

      Human instinct naturally drives us to maintain control of our environment, so as to maintain the supply of food, water and comfort - usually to the detriment of other species.

      Given mankind's ability to quell nature and stifle natural selection, we are dramatically affecting the balance and are most likely heading towards extended periods with little food, water or comfort. It is a question of how long before the symptoms become unbearable. One hundred years? More? Less? With the attitude that humans are the only important species on Earth, it will probably be much sooner.

    5. Re:The Eco-Nut replies are telling by jaxtherat · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Uhm, DDT was banned as it is a carcinogen, and not for the environmental impact. All Organochlorides were phased out on most developed countries for that reason.

      http://www.pan-uk.org/pestnews/actives/ddt.htm

      What we now use are mostly Organophosphate based pesticides (which are probably just as bad, but 'luckily' the metabolites are much harder to trace, so you can't get sued if your products poison an entire generation :roll eyes:).

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organophosphorous

      --
      http://www.zombieapocalypse.tv/
    6. Re:The Eco-Nut replies are telling by Ramze · · Score: 2, Insightful

      So, you're saying that without malaria, the world would be even more overpopulated? I guess there's another benefit to not having toxic DDT in our environment. Not that I think dying from malaria is a fun thing and I'm playing devil's advocate for a bit... but if we're truly going to look at the big picture here, putting poisons into the water we drink and killing animals using toxins that kill or mutate animals further up the food chain is a terrible outcome from long term use of such poisons. Also, people die every day from all sorts of things. That's part of the human condition. We have to put such things into perspective. Long term, if it weren't for diseases, the world's population would be too massive for Earth's biomass to sustain it. We'd all starve from over fishing and overfarming the same land, poison ourselves with more pollution, and probably kill the planet by destroying all the rain forests and start a chain reaction killing the food chain from the bottom up until the planet is completely dead. War and murder keep the population in check somewhat, but it's still exploding. Sooner or later, people are going to have to learn to live in harmony with their environment again - and that means putting checks on how many offspring we have... and being careful about what we put into our environment so that we don't get harmful things back from it later.

      Focusing on the deaths of a small portion of the human population to justify contaminating the ecosystem we ALL need to survive is short-sighted. Perhaps you value the lives of those who die from malaria more than the lives of all the human beings and other living things in the future who will have to suffer the consequences of having toxins in their environment for however long it takes for the earth to clean up the mess, but I don't. Earth is going to be here for a very, very long time and I'd like for our future generations to not curse us for the condition of the planet they inherited.

      Would you honestly endorse the use of a chemical like DDT that is KNOWN to reduce bird populations because of thinning egg shells... and to be toxic to not just birds but "also highly toxic to aquatic life, including crayfish, daphnids, sea shrimp and many species of fish" and "moderately toxic to some amphibian species, especially in the larval stages." It also builds up in the food chain to toxic levels as more is accumulated and stored in the fat of animals. It's half life is long enough to where it'd easily be picked up by just about any ecosystem, build up over time, and kill the ecosystem. We don't even know what the long-term effects on humans would be. Something tells me it's going to be worse than malaria if it's use is continued and constant.
      DDT Wikipedia

      Having said that, these genetically engineered mosquitoes sound great. They're a biological, biodegradable, non-toxic solution to the overpopulation of mosquitoes. Sure, the drop in the mosquito population may affect birds, bats, and other animals further up the food chain, but probably not to any noticeable degree considering most animals that eat mosquitoes have other food sources. I'd say investing in mosquito netting for the areas effected would also be a good idea -- along with mosquito traps if they can afford them.

    7. Re:The Eco-Nut replies are telling by locokamil · · Score: 3, Informative

      I can offer a little bit of perspective on Dengue fever, because I had a particularly bad version that required me to be hospitalized. During my hospital stay, I needed several blood/plasma transfusions in order to compensate for all the internal haemorrhaging caused by the virus. All in all, I was debillitatingly ill for almost five months.

      As serious as the illness was, there was never any risk of me dying: my family is well enough off that I received good medical care. But for every guy like me with the resources to get by in the event of catastrophic illness, there are about a thousand who die, coughing and bleeding, in the gutters. I really wish people in the west would think about these people before they dismiss potential solutions to epidemics for "environmental" reasons.

    8. Re:The Eco-Nut replies are telling by repapetilto · · Score: 1

      While it would seem to be advisable for us to try to maintain the status quo (since were at the top right now)other life forms are going to evolve and adapt regardless, so saving species from extinction,etc is not really the strategy thats in Humanity-as-a-whole's self interest. What the best strategy is nobody knows, so really we should just continue doing what we do best and has worked for so long: kill off/keep away anything that annoys us. Yea, it's heuristical but seeing as noone has created and really satisfactory models of ecosystems yet (satisfactory=predictive ability) I'd say don't fix what isn't broken.

    9. Re:The Eco-Nut replies are telling by repapetilto · · Score: 1

      yes this idea is really no different than setting up a million mosquito traps. Same result, this one involves Genetic engineering though so its a threat to the ecosystem.

    10. Re:The Eco-Nut replies are telling by QuoteMstr · · Score: 4, Insightful

      What balance? How about the rise of oxygen-producing cyanobacteria, which single-handedly raised the concentration of oxygen to where it is today over a few million years? Keep in mind oxygen was a poison back then, and no doubt killed a lot of early life.

      How about the Permian-Triassic mass extinction, which killed 96% of all marine species and a little over 70% of land species? How about the Cryogenian glaciation, also known as Snowball Earth, when glaciers reached the equator? How about the Carboniferous, when the oxygen concentration was so high that wet grass could burn? Hell, compared to the last ice age, the last ten thousand years have been wickedly hot and weird.

      There is no balance in nature. There was no Garden of Eaden before we ate from the tree of science and sinned with industrialization. There was no paradise, only variable, capricious nature. The environment is valuable, but remember that we should protect it for our sake, so that we have a place to live, not because a trout or a tree is morally superior to man.

    11. Re:The Eco-Nut replies are telling by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are right. Humans are so much more important than other biological organisms. In fact, they're so important, they're more important even than the entire ecosystem that supports them, and allows them to continue to exist as a species... oh wait...

    12. Re:The Eco-Nut replies are telling by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >Lol! PERFECT example of your own short-sightedness. DDT was banned because it was really fucking up PEOPLE - not the "ecosystem."

      DDT harms shells on bird eggs, as far as modern science knows. If you know of anything else it harms and care to share, let us know!

      DDT was sprayed directly on many people for years with no ill effects on those people.

    13. Re:The Eco-Nut replies are telling by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I am both worried about the people and the "ecosystem" - the problem is one and the same. Sure, if we eliminate dengue fever mosquitos without properly examining the consequences, then we save millions of people from that particular disaster, but we might be delivering millions more to another horrible fate - that may we a worthwhile risk to take, but we better be damned sure before we make any rash decisions.

      It is possible to be a completely human centered environmentalist - the important thing is realizing that damage to the natural environment often, though certainly not always, acts as a warning of future danger for humans.

    14. Re:The Eco-Nut replies are telling by dryeo · · Score: 1

      You do realize that using DDT to control disease bearing things like mosquitos is still allowed don't you? http://www.malaria.org/DDTpage.html

      --
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
    15. Re:The Eco-Nut replies are telling by ChromeAeonium · · Score: 1

      Wow, I can't believe some of the replies to this post. I guarantee all the people moaning about how this will harm the environment have never left their cozy little post industrial countries and seen the human suffering these diseases are causing. If they cared so much, they'd stop using energy hogging computers and other electronic devices, stop driving gas guzzling cars, stop wearing clothing produced in a country with virtually no environmental protection regulations, stop using products made from old growth forests, stop wasting water with all the unnecessary uses it has, and the list goes on and on.

      But they won't, because that would inconvenience them, and once something causes them to step out of their comfort zone, they give up. Its OK for the environment to take one for the team when their high tech, comfortable, modern lifestyle's on the line, but when they see some poor bastard in some third world hellhole is dying, what do they say? Fuck them, fixing THEIR PROBLEM might hurt the environment, ensuring that their kids don't die might screw up the ecosystem. Its fine and dandy for them to bulldoze a forest to put up a new strip mall, but God forbid someone want to not die so bad that they take the chance of maybe harming the environment. You know, I bet every one of them would kill every bug, bird, and rodent within a hundred mile radius if it was their lives on the line. Hypocrites.

    16. Re:The Eco-Nut replies are telling by Vexorg_q · · Score: 2, Informative

      Lol! PERFECT example of your own short-sightedness. DDT was banned because it was really fucking up PEOPLE - not the "ecosystem." It looks like DDT would be the lesser of two evils now. But are you so sure that these genetically modified mosquitoes are really the lesser of two evils? How do you know that? Are you so sure there aren't any other options?


      yet, paradoxically, the number of people dying of malaria since the banning of DDT has drastically increased. Not only that, but DDT was banned not because it was fucking up people, but because it was a probable human carcinogen.

      Don't get me wrong, DDT is far from perfect, since it DID fuck up the environment (famously birds) and also loses efficacy over time, but you can't just dismiss its benefits to humanity that quickly. Modern, safer pesticides now cost much more than DDT, which cost pennies per kilogram. The net effect is that the poorest regions of the world, mainly Africa, where 1 million children die a year due to malaria, can't afford the insecticides now that DDT is banned. Its certainly not as cut and dry as you make it out to be, and you would be well served to know a bit more about it. Wikipedia has some good references:
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ddt#Effects_on_human_health
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ddt#DDT_use_against_malaria
      --

      Idle hands are the devil's workshop, but idle minds are much worse
    17. Re:The Eco-Nut replies are telling by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      um, no not really. i think people are concerned that things could be worse if killing all the mosquitos causes some chain reaction killoff. the end result could be much more than 5 million dead

    18. Re:The Eco-Nut replies are telling by QuoteMstr · · Score: 1

      Humans are, in fact, more important.

      Instinctively, the more similar* a person is to me, the higher I rank that person in importance. We all feel this way. Every mother thinks her child is more important than a stranger halfway around the world. Who wouldn't blow off work to visit his best friend in the hospital after a car accident?

      Why do we feel this way? We're hard-wired for it.

      Why? Because our ancestors were the ones who received the help of those with similar genes. As a result, our ancestors prospered and had more children than those who thought of the drosophila. It's just a more effective strategy.

      On what basis can you even meaningfully say that the environment is more important than we are? Who's to judge? The invisible sky wizard? Let's be intelligent people here.

      We protect the environment so we have a place to live. That's important, but no giraffe is going to write poetry, fall in love, or land on the moon. We should protect the environment only far enough that this protection doesn't impair human progress or happiness.

      *: These days, we measure similarity as much by shared ideology as by shared genetic goop.

    19. Re:The Eco-Nut replies are telling by Chandon+Seldon · · Score: 1

      From an evolutionary standpoint we should probably let people with diseases die from those diseases so as to strengthen the gene pool and keep the population in check

      Should we? Is the ability to survive Malaria with poor medical care a trait we want to be selecting for? Probably the best genetic trait for that is sickle-cell anemia - which isn't necessarily something I'd want the whole population to have.

      As for controlling the population, how does a high death rate impact birth rates? How does it impact wealth and education level in the population? (Since the best birth control is apparently a rich and well educated population)

      but population is probably the most important long-term human issue after pollution

      Do you have an argument to support this wild claim? The estimations that I've seen (population stabilizes at ~10 billion in 2050) don't really seem like that big a deal.

      If you want a real problem to worry about, try this one: People form strongly held opinions on issues without having gone to the effort to understand the questions they're answering at all.

      --
      -- The act of censorship is always worse than whatever is being censored. Always.
    20. Re:The Eco-Nut replies are telling by agrippa_cash · · Score: 1

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DDT#Mosquito_resistance_to_DDT The wikipedia article also asserts that DDT's use as a vector control was never prohibited in developing nations. The implication being that the real effect of banning DDT for agricultural purposes is less catastrophic than the doomsday criers have lead you to believe. --Sincerely, an eco-nut

    21. Re:The Eco-Nut replies are telling by edwardpickman · · Score: 1

      The point of the title was the spring was silent because it was dead. Ecosystems are extremely complex and if you'd been paying attention you'd notice we're batting zero at engineering ecosystems to our liking. So far most efforts have been a sledgehammer approach to beating nature into submission. The problem is it took nature far longer to establish ecosystems than we've been out of the trees and we aren't as bright as you give us credit for being. Ecosystems are incredibly resilient houses of cards. They can take a lot of abuse but what happens when you start yanking cards out of the house? The ecosystem can actually survive without us but we can't survive without it. Chernobyl had one amazing benefit, it removed humans from an area and inspite of the contamination which was bad enough to kill trees the area started to recover. Put that into perspective. The worst nuclear accident in history harmed wildlife less than humans simply living in an area. Now you say hell kill all the mosquitoes and lets DDT insects into oblivion. 411, bees are insects and our civilization depends on them. Why we'll hand polinate the plants, how about $10 apples and tomatoes? Like your hamburger? Most of the cattle feed requires polination. We tried using poisons like a monkey with a minigun and it caused damage than we'll be dealing with for generations, animals in the arctic still have DDT levels and so do we. Irresponsible use of pesticides will cause far more deaths than all the mosquito born illnesses combined. Dengue is a tropical disease and guess what happens when you live in the tropics? You get tropical diseases. Better to attack the disease directly than to kill off all the carriers. Bats eat mosquitoes as well as other insects but if you poison the mosquitoes you'll likely kill the bats then you'll be bitching about the other insects. Ever hear of Rattlesnake Round Ups? I'm guessing you think it's a cool idea. Every time they have one rat and mice populations explode. Guess what rats and mice carry? Diseases. Mice Carry Hanta Virus which is a lot like Dengue. Wiping out species won't fix anything but it will cause disasters that will cost lives.

    22. Re:The Eco-Nut replies are telling by nuzak · · Score: 1

      Hey you righteous little fuck, DDT was banned because it was poisonous to EVERYTHING.

      People who live in mosquito-infested areas tend to fish a lot. These people like the fish to be, um, there.

      --
      Done with slashdot, done with nerds, getting a life.
    23. Re:The Eco-Nut replies are telling by ruinevil · · Score: 0

      Even if it wasn't banned... DDT would probably less useful by now, as the mosquito population was slowly growing immune to DDT. Reproduction of the survivors and all that. Mosquitoes don't have the mutation frequency of HIV, but their population is varied genetically.

      Also won't the few surviving mosquitoes have more of their progeny survive in this GMO system. I believe they should drain stagnant bodies of water where mosquitoes breed...

    24. Re:The Eco-Nut replies are telling by raehl · · Score: 2, Interesting

      What is pretty interesting, however, is the mosquitoes don't seem to worry much about the millions of people they're removing from the ecosystem.

    25. Re:The Eco-Nut replies are telling by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      WELL SAID.

    26. Re:The Eco-Nut replies are telling by Cassius+Corodes · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Like you said - DDT loses effectiveness over time. It started out as 95% effective - and ended up being 5% effective in the regions it was most used in. So we couldn't have kept using it forever anyway.

      --
      Control is an illusion, order our comforting lie. From chaos, through chaos, into chaos we fly
    27. Re:The Eco-Nut replies are telling by maxume · · Score: 1

      Most developed nations have birth rates that result in an ever decreasing population. The old people in these countries see it as a problem, as they want someone around to take care of them. People prefer to die from horrible diseases of old age, rather than horrible infections.

      Also, the use of DDT in controlling malaria is not comparable to the widespread agricultural use it enjoyed before it was banned. The benefits of spot treating dwellings vastly outweigh the costs, both long and short term.

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    28. Re:The Eco-Nut replies are telling by PrinceAshitaka · · Score: 1

      A quote from a Eco-nut (FTFA) "Releasing millions of genetically modified terminator mosquitoes into wild ecosystems amounts to a reckless and uncontrolled experiment with a risky technology," said Jim Thomas, of the ETC Group$ Terminator mosquitoes??? Well I guess they are becuase thier programming terminates them after a certain period of time, but the way it is used it sounds as if these mosqiutoes were sent back in time from the future to kill humanities only hope.

      --
      quis custodiet ipsos custodes
    29. Re:The Eco-Nut replies are telling by jvkjvk · · Score: 1

      What is pretty interesting, however, is the mosquitoes don't seem to worry much about the millions of people they're removing from the ecosystem. How is that interesting?

      Do you expect the mosquitoes to form a cabal of sorts and secretly plot the destruction of humanity? Or is it interesting that they've not done so already? Or perhaps they should have halted their predations on humans (perhaps you could pass out pamphlets?).

      You seem to want to create a dichotomy between people who care about the ecosystem as someone put it vs. people who don't using this logic. Catch me if I got this wrong, but you are advocating that because an instinctual (and perhaps even hard coded) intelligence cannot fathom the destruction it is causing, we should be the same way? That seems the only possible grounding your statement has.

      I think this is actually working against your intended argument, however.

      I would say that the equivalent to the "mosquitoes" in this case are those people who are comfortable with the destruction of another species without caring about the possible harm to the ecosystem. It's just one level up. Oh, and we do live here you know. In this particular biosphere. Fuck it up enough and we won't live here anymore. I imagine that the rest of the biosphere will go on without our input, though.
    30. Re:The Eco-Nut replies are telling by ledvinap · · Score: 1

      Not exactly ... sucralose (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sucralose) IS organochloride, is quite new and is sold as wonder sweetener ...

    31. Re:The Eco-Nut replies are telling by evil_aar0n · · Score: 1

      So, you're saying, "Kill 'em all - except for humans." Um. Ok. I could learn to like cannibalism, I guess.

      --
      Truth, Justice. Or the American Way.
    32. Re:The Eco-Nut replies are telling by Cervantes · · Score: 1

      As serious as the illness was, there was never any risk of me dying: my family is well enough off that I received good medical care. But for every guy like me with the resources to get by in the event of catastrophic illness, there are about a thousand who die, coughing and bleeding, in the gutters. And that, right there, should be the most damning indictment of the US health care system possible.
      (parent may or may not be american, but the statement is relevant regardless)

      "I was rich enough not to die".
      I just don't understand how people can live in a country where this can be a valid statement.

      --
      If I knew the wedgies I gave you back in 6th grade would have resulted in this . . . I might have taken a moments pause.
    33. Re:The Eco-Nut replies are telling by locokamil · · Score: 1

      I just don't understand how people can live in a country where this can be a valid statement. Most people aren't given a choice about where they're born.

      I'm assuming you're American... You have the power to vote, don't you? Use it and change the things that bother you instead of throwing your arms up in despair.
    34. Re:The Eco-Nut replies are telling by evil_aar0n · · Score: 1

      Maybe this is Nature's way of saying, "Humans ain't nothin". Try not to attach too much self-importance to human life. People die all the time; we're supposed to. Yeah, it sucks, but, as they say, life goes on.

      --
      Truth, Justice. Or the American Way.
    35. Re:The Eco-Nut replies are telling by Cervantes · · Score: 1

      I just don't understand how people can live in a country where this can be a valid statement. Most people aren't given a choice about where they're born.

      I'm assuming you're American... You have the power to vote, don't you? Use it and change the things that bother you instead of throwing your arms up in despair. I agree with you, the best way to change the system is by actually trying to change the system.
      Unfortunately, I'm Canadian, so all I can do is look at those poor bastards to the south, throw my arms up in despair, and and say "Hey, howze dat dem dere deadly infectious disease you got dere, eh? Sure sucks, eh? Right on."
      and also
      "Aboot"

      Jokes aside, you have a country with socialized health care right up north. I'm surprised I don't see more americans moving here. (though there have been plenty more than usual in the last 7 years, for some reason...)
      And every time socialized medicine comes up down south, someone starts jumping up and down whining and complaining about having to pay when they're healthy.

      Seriously, can we get some non-New-World perspective here? Am I just insulated? Is it normal in the rest of the world to not care whether your fellow citizen lives or dies?
      --
      If I knew the wedgies I gave you back in 6th grade would have resulted in this . . . I might have taken a moments pause.
    36. Re:The Eco-Nut replies are telling by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Lol! PERFECT example of your own short-sightedness. DDT was banned because it was really fucking up PEOPLE - not the "ecosystem." You must be talking about that one time that was never recorded and never happened, ever. DDT has never shown any ill effects to animals or humans in any scientific study. The "ill effects" reported were in a fictional story.

      Wise geico cavemen would agree. You should do a little more research.
    37. Re:The Eco-Nut replies are telling by locokamil · · Score: 1

      Easy to say until you've seen actual people die. Try it sometime; I assure you, you'll come out with a very different view of the world.

    38. Re:The Eco-Nut replies are telling by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 1

      but you can't just dismiss its benefits to humanity that quickly. Why do you think I did? I said DDT seems to be the lesser of two evils. Which should imply that I think the greater of two evils was NOT using DDT.
      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    39. Re:The Eco-Nut replies are telling by ZWithaPGGB · · Score: 1

      And now comes the truth of the Enviro Movement: They hate the human race. They see the evils of pestilence and war as part of Gaia's grand plan. They would like to see the third world stay mired in misery and massive deprivation, so they can enjoy their sanitary lives far from the seething mass of humanity. Never mind that as people emerge from filth and massive infant mortality they actually tend to moderate their own birthrates to about replacement. Or that modern society is what has produced all the wondrous things that make the concept of a carbon neutral (hunter gatherers burning wood, or worse, subsistence slash and burn farmers, are not exactly "sustainable") lifestyle possible, and that there seems to need to be a progression from stone age through medieval to industrial to get there. Millions (and actually Billions, if you read the writings of much of the core leaders of the modern Environmental movement) of lives must be sacrificed at the altar of Gaia's wishes as we wade through this valley of tears.

      This is just the medieval Catholic church's BS message repackaged. Instead of Adam and Eve in the garden of Eden, we have the pre-industrial age (when we had bubonic plague, constant war, and a life expectancy of 36 years old). Instead of the devil and the apple, we have the industrial revolution: both being sins of knowledge. Instead of redemption by Jesus in an afterlife, we have heaven on Earth for those who survive the die-back and live "in harmony" with nature. All adherents should be non-violent and focus on contemplation and study of the religion, not the productive arts. For medieval Christianity, this was monastic life, for the enviro crowd, it's bing a "docent" or some other tour guide. Never mind that both actually require the support of the people who do the real work, and those who adhere too closely to their teachings get run over by aggressive barbarians, we're all going to be happy Eloi if we just follow the 'third way".

      This meme is one of the most dangerous ones known to man, and always results in hell on Earth. Don't let the enviros do to modern civilization what the Christians did to classical Civilization. Ignorance is not bliss, and abandoning common sense for promises of utopia just creates hell on earth. For a recent example, see the former communist countries under communism.

      As for you prophets of the Gaianist Utopia: Please follow your own beliefs to their logical conclusion by contracting some lethal disease or committing suicide. At the very least, neuter yourself. While you're at it, pass one on to all the others who think that killing off a lot of the human race is a good thing.

    40. Re:The Eco-Nut replies are telling by evil_aar0n · · Score: 1

      I've reached that age where the likelihood that someone I know will die today is actually pretty high. I'm not at that phase where I'm just waiting to die, but when someone I know does die, I won't be as surprised as I used to be. My view comes specifically from the fact that, yep, I've seen people die. And I've seen everyone else go on about their business because, as I said, life goes on. The world does not stop because someone you like - or maybe even _lots_ of people you like - dies. In fact, we're so insignificant, even among ourselves, leave alone the rest of Nature, that within two generations, give or take, you might as well have never existed. Certainly, by that time, you'll be nothing but a vague memory for some, if that.

      As I said, Humanity needs to get over itself. We're really not all that special, in the big scheme of things, and, should we all die tomorrow, life would still go on. Do you weep for the clipping of a fingernail? I hate to serve you a turd sandwich, but that's all we are. Though Kansas said it better w/ Dust in the Wind.

      --
      Truth, Justice. Or the American Way.
    41. Re:The Eco-Nut replies are telling by ZWithaPGGB · · Score: 1

      Clearly you are incapable of rational argument.

      Here's an inconvenient truth for you: DDT, used inside dwellings, has no effect whatsoever on fish, but is highly effective at preventing malaria. Instead of buying emotional religious arguments and then regurgitating them in ad-hominem rants, go learn the scientific method and read something written by scientists, instead of activists.

      It's easy to swear at people behind the protection of a keyboard or at a rally surrounded by your screaming hippie throwback brethren. Note two things: 1: It doesn't lend any credibility to your argument, it merely makes you look irrational to normal people, and thus undermines it. 2: If you keep addressing people like that, someday you're going to pick a fight with the wrong guy.

      Next time you want to insult someone, try using an expanded vocabulary: you ignorant, monosyllabic, cowardly, luddite, verbal incontinent.

    42. Re:The Eco-Nut replies are telling by nuzak · · Score: 1

      > regurgitating them in ad-hominem rants,

      Point out one "ad hominem" in my reply. I suspect you don't even know what the term means.

      --
      Done with slashdot, done with nerds, getting a life.
    43. Re:The Eco-Nut replies are telling by nuzak · · Score: 1

      Oh sorry, I glossed over "righteous little fuck", my mistake. I can see how some people incapable of recognizing argument from interjection might have read it that way. The ability to distinguish a bare insult from a logical fallacy does tend to require reading and reasoning skills not entirely prevalent in those who gleaned the term by osmosis through its typical "you're a meanie, ergo invalid" usage.

      Nothing like a good flame, but what the hell, I hardly feel like it's worth it anymore.

      BTW, you don't just use DDT indoors.

      --
      Done with slashdot, done with nerds, getting a life.
    44. Re:The Eco-Nut replies are telling by ZWithaPGGB · · Score: 1

      Thing is, that Mosquitoes kill millions of people is demonstrable fact. The down-chain effects of eliminating them are hypothetical.

      Further, based on our understanding of the ecosystems involved, that there are multiple alternative food sources for Mosquito predators, and very few secondary or tertiary benefits to mosquitoes (unless you're one of the people who think that controlling human population through the suffering of millions from a preventable disease is a benefit, as some have posted here), eliminating mosquitoes is significantly UNLIKELY to result in ecosystem collapse to the extent that human life is threatened.

      Ergo, eliminating the mosquitoes saves more lives than letting them live.

    45. Re:The Eco-Nut replies are telling by raehl · · Score: 1

      I know I'm way late on the reply here, but... ...What's inherently bad about killing off other species? Species die off all the time.

      Now, I agree that if you believe that (number of species) is better than (number of species minus 1) as a matter of morality, then killing off species is bad.

      But beyond that, what's inherently wrong with killing off a species or 10? Killing species doesn't have to be bad for us. Killing off some species would probably be good for us. So if we annihilate the malaria-bearing mosquitoes, and millions of us don't die from malaria, and we otherwise don't notice, maybe killing off the mosquitoes was a GOOD thing?

  14. They never learn by scythe000 · · Score: 0

    I guess they didn't see 'I Am Legend.' Way, way too much opportunity for disaster here. Anybody here hear of the Australian Cane Toad disaster?

    1. Re:They never learn by Crypto+Gnome · · Score: 1
      Seen on TV the other night ("Strange Days on Planet Earth"): About BioControl on "some random island I forget which one"
      • problem with too many rats
      • introduce Monitor Lizards
        • MonitorLizards are daytime creatures, rats are active at night
        • Monitor Lizards EAT ALL THE CHICKENS instead (Bad Lizards!)
      • Introduce Cane Toads
        • The Lizards eat them (and Cane Toads are extremely poisonous)
        • However, so do the local CATS (BAD Cane Toads!)
      Net Result of ALL THAT SCREWING WITH MOTHER NATURE? ===> Increased Rat Population

      Now where did I leave that URL for the recent SlashDOT article about some people never learn?
      --
      Visit CryptoGnome in his home.
  15. Mistake in subject.... by Schlopper · · Score: 3, Funny

    "Engineered Mosquitoes Could Wipe Out Human Race"

    There... fixed that for ya. Now queue overlord-welcoming comments....

  16. Maybe West Nile too? by FudRucker · · Score: 1
    --
    Politics is Treachery, Religion is Brainwashing
  17. Charles Darwin Thinks... by mechsoph · · Score: 2, Informative

    Charles Darwin thinks that this idea is probably dumb.

    Unless they manage to release some critical number of mosquitoes, the faulty ones will die and the normal ones will pass on their undamaged genes.

    1. Re:Charles Darwin Thinks... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sure, but limited breeding time and influences from sterile males using up food causes the drop.

    2. Re:Charles Darwin Thinks... by glwtta · · Score: 2, Informative

      They've been doing this successfully since the 50s (usually with irradiated insects, rather than genetically engineered ones) - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sterile_insect_technique

      --
      sic transit gloria mundi
    3. Re:Charles Darwin Thinks... by CougMerrik · · Score: 1

      Biological evolution works on a macro time scale..thousands and millions of years. A change like what is described in the article has an effect in the short term. Yes, eventually even these genetically modified mosquitoes could mutate to compensate for their defect, but that's unlikely to happen for a long, long time. When its humans vs. 'survival of the fittest', humans win. That's why pandas still exist.

  18. Canadain Flies by HartDev · · Score: 1

    The scary thing is that there are many a Mosquito's in Canada in Alberta where I will go for the summer. I once pinched a mosquito on my arm and almost got it to explode.....but it didn't.

    --
    To see a few of my Android apps goto: www.hartwired.com
  19. Borneo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In the early 1950's, the Dayak people of Borneo suffered a malarial outbreak. The World Health Organisation (WHO) had a solution: to spray large amounts of DDT to kill the mosquitoes that carried the malaria. The mosquitoes died; the malaria declined; so far so good. But there were unexpected side effects. Amongst the first was that the roofs of the people's houses began to fall down on their heads. It seemed that the DDT had also killed a parasitic wasp which had previously controlled thatch-eating caterpillars. Worse, the DDT-poisoned insects were eaten by geckoes, which were eaten by cats. The cats started to die, the rats flourished, and the people were threatened by outbreaks of typhus and plague. To cope with these problems, which it had itself created, the WHO was obliged to parachute 14 000 live cats into Borneo. Operation Cat Drop, now almost forgotten at the WHO, is a graphic illustration of the interconnectedness of life, and of the fact that the root of problems often stems from their purported solutions.

  20. What else gets wiped out? by peektwice · · Score: 1

    I know it's probably an insensitive question to someone living in a dengue fever infested area, but which higher link in the food chain suffers if we eliminate mosquitoes? Bats? Birds? Does it risk toppling the ecosystem in those areas? How do you get this many mosquitoes disseminated into the wild? What happens when they mutate into some genetically modified disease carrying mosquito that causes more damage than before?

    --
    Other than this text, there is no discernible information contained in this sig.
    1. Re:What else gets wiped out? by dryeo · · Score: 1

      The biggest dependent on mosquitoes are fish eating the larvae.

      --
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
    2. Re:What else gets wiped out? by fmobus · · Score: 1

      The idea is not eliminate all sorts of mosquitoes, but rather a single species, the Aedis Egyptis, which is the carrier/vector for the Dengue virus (bacteria? can't remember). IMO, In the context of the tropical forests, eliminating one species is hardly a problem, considering the mind-bogglingly large number of species on the same niche that will survive. It could become a problem, however, if somehow the virus adapts itself do be carried by another species.

  21. This could make things worse by poisoneleven · · Score: 2, Insightful

    On a bad side, if the mosquitoes adapt to reproduce prior to their sudden kill time, this could severely increase the problem as they would be able to reproduce in even smaller and shorter lasting pools of water.

  22. I don't know muh about these genetic thingy but by jsse · · Score: 1

    I've acquired scientific knowledge from a movie. Like, you're going to turn a bad guy in a highway into cop, end up turning the hosts into zombies, right?

    That's bad enough, imagine all those hairless mosquitoes flying around hungering for blood......oh wait.

    (Man how I love shooting on good idea as it's much easier than making a genetically modified mosquitoe)

  23. *cough*killerbees by tgd · · Score: 2, Insightful

    They've tried this before, I think...

    1. Re:*cough*killerbees by Phyvo · · Score: 2, Insightful

      In part, you're right. I guess. However, what happened with the Africanized bees (if I remember correctly) was that they put loads of boxes of European (I think that's the term for it) bees in the hopes of diluting the Africanized ones. This didn't work because although the two would breed together the more Africanized the bee the sooner the queen would hatch from the egg... and kill any other developing queens present. So the Europeanized offspring were wiped out before they could reproduce.

      This is something altogether different. Their goal *is* population reduction, not domestication of the population... so as long as they get 50% of the females (like they have already in the lab) to waste their time producing offspring that will die, the job is done, they've just killed 50% of the next generation of mosquitoes. So I can't see a similar mistake happening.

  24. Here we go again by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why dont we just do it right and remove the real problem species
    lets wipe out "MAN" no more problems with bugs, weeds, you name it all cured at once

  25. Seems like a crude approach by atomicstrawberry · · Score: 1

    The summary implies that this idea is a bit more elegant than it actually appears to be. Essentially it's mosquitoes with a genetic 'kill switch' which is suppressed by a specific antibiotic. When they're released they mate with female mosquitoes but the offspring of those mosquitoes die soon after, along with the GE mosquitoes. In theory.

    So it's not really 'controlling the spread of dengue fever' or whatever. It's just reducing the population of mosquitoes, and it's completely indiscriminate in the way that it works, wiping out both carriers and non-carriers of the virus. Aside from the obvious potential implications that destroying a chunk of the mosquito population would have on the ecosystem, you've got to wonder whether the suppression mechanism is even workable. The antibiotic is apparently used in agriculture a lot, so it's possible that they could get access to it anyway. In fact this could potentially just move the problem out of the urban areas.

    Additionally there's the fact that this is really only a short-term solution. In order to have any real effect you'd need to be constantly releasing more Terminator Mosquitoes into the ecosystem. The instant your government stops paying whatever company is producing the things, the population of unaffected mosquitoes is going to bounce back again, and one assumes that they'd bring their various viruses with them.

    1. Re:Seems like a crude approach by fmobus · · Score: 1

      I haven't RTFA, but I believe only one species is to be targeted, namely the Aedis Egyptis. If you consider the large number of species of mosquitoes existing in any tropical forest, killing a single species doesn't sound like a big problem.

  26. Genetically Modified Anti Mosquitoes! by HappyRotter · · Score: 2, Informative

    Having read the article, it sounds like they'd just be releasing these Genetically Modified Anti Mosquitoes (GMAM) near urban areas with dense populations. Basically, these are places where the ecosystem is likely to be severely diminished already due to humans moving in. It's doubtful that using this technique to control mosquito populations in relatively small pockets is going to have any additional impact outside of those areas. Also, you can't really assume that this technique will eliminate 100% of the population. For one thing, there will always be new individuals from outside the affected area moving in. The cost of producing enough of these mosquitoes to guarantee the death of the whole population would be a bit prohibitive. Especially considering that it would likely be a recurring cost. The article pretty much says that this is to control mosquito populations, so it sounds to me as if they don't anticipate any possibility for this technique to eradicate entire populations of the target insect. So, from that point of view, it doesn't sound all that risky.

    From the other perspective though, controlling the mosquito population in this way will definitely impact the ecosystem. If Dengue is no longer a problem, human populations will rise faster than it otherwise would have. More people means more ecological damage. Of course I'm not saying we shouldn't save the people, because I know if it were me living in an area with Dengue and my friends and family were getting sick from it, I'd want a solution no matter what the cost to the environment is.

  27. Mosquito Feed by spribyl · · Score: 1

    Fine,

    When the mosquitoes are gone what are the
    Bats
    Birds
    Fish
    going to eat.
    Oh yeah, the needle snakes will feed them gorillas.

    Idiots

    1. Re:Mosquito Feed by thatskinnyguy · · Score: 1

      There is a lot of good that can be done with this. If it works-out with dengue, other mosquito-borne diseases like Polio, Malaria, West Nile, and others could be wiped-out or at least significantly squashed worldwide.

      As for the food chain: animals have more diverse of a diet than you make it out to be.

      --
      The game.
  28. Wipe it out completely? Possibly. by backslashdot · · Score: 2, Informative

    I believe that dengue fever can be eradicated with this approach at least on an area basis IF DONE RIGHT ... but as I understand it, it's going to fairly difficult practically.

    They are preventing the female mosquitoes from mating with the "normal" males, and at the same time (via mutant offspring) increasing competition for resources needed by "normal" offspring. This _should_ cause a reduction in the dengue fever mosquito (aedes aegypti) population. The question is, given there will always be a small percentage of normal males who will mate with the females, can they eradicate dengue 100% at least within a given isolated area?

    I think so yes.

    What they want is to release their mutants so they outnumber the normals by a MASSIVE ratio -this is key. Since their offspring die, this will ultimately reduce the number of female aedes aegypti mosquitoes. The actual percentage of dengue carrying mosquitoes (had to have gotten unlucky and bitten an infected person) is a sub fraction of the dengue carry capable mosquitoes. In turn, there will be a quick dramatic decline in infected people because the chance of a normal aedes aegypti mosquito actually biting a dengue infected person and then giving it to a normal person will become lower and lower.

    However I think the public will oppose this for a few reasons:

    1. Irrational paranoia about the G word (genetically modified), thousands of genetically modified mosquitoes (even if they are non biting males) being released OMG.
    2. The reduction in aedes aegypti females may cause an increase in other mosquito species that compete with it (increase in anopheles (malaria)?).
    3. Male mutant mosquitoes will have to be introduced in large numbers to the environment until either aedes aegypti or dengue fever is 100% eradicated (but mad profits if you own the company selling them).
    4. Public may get pissed off at the sight of mosquitoes getting released in their neighborhood.

    Probably they need to combine this with introducing a harmless (non disease vector) mosquito species suited to a given environment (for example some places may suit aedes albopictus).

    1. Re:Wipe it out completely? Possibly. by repapetilto · · Score: 1

      Probably they need to combine this with introducing a harmless (non disease vector) mosquito species suited to a given environment (for example some places may suit aedes albopictus).
      Yes, mod parent up for this, that is a great idea.
    2. Re:Wipe it out completely? Possibly. by Dunbal · · Score: 2, Informative

      Speaking as a physician who lives in a country where dengue fever is endemic, I have the following to add:

            Dengue is a mosquito disease as well as a human disease. By this I mean that the dengue virus is transmitted from mosquito parents to their offspring WITHOUT the need of humans at all (unlike say malaria, where a host organism (human) is needed for the parasite to breed). Therefore the actual situation is a chronic reservoir of virus in both mosquito AND human populations. A "healthy" mosquito bites an infected human and can contract the disease, and then form disease carrying colonies which will perpetuate the virus and continue infecting humans - which will cause mosquitoes from different colonies to become infected (the Aedes aegypti mosquito doesn't travel all that far during its life cycle after all).

            So to get to my point, all you need is for ONE INFECTED MOSQUITO to survive, OR one healthy mosquito to bite an infected human - and eventually more and more mosquitoes (and therefore humans) will become infected.

            I am sure that brighter minds than me are working on the problem, and I sincerely wish them luck. I personally doubt that this line of work will lead to any lasting results, however. You might as well try to eradicate all mosquitoes, and leave it at that.

            Biology usually finds an original way to bite us in the ass when we try to mess with it on a large scale.

      --
      Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
    3. Re:Wipe it out completely? Possibly. by backslashdot · · Score: 1

      "all you need is for ONE INFECTED MOSQUITO to survive, OR one healthy mosquito to bite an infected human - and eventually more and more mosquitoes (and therefore humans) will become infected."

      "A "healthy" mosquito bites an infected human and can contract the disease, and then form disease carrying colonies which will perpetuate the virus and continue infecting humans - which will cause mosquitoes from different colonies to become infected (the Aedes aegypti mosquito doesn't travel all that far during its life cycle after all)."

      You are right .. dengue cannot be wiped out so easily .. but I do have some possible disagreement with you said .. feel free to correct me :)

      1. case of one infected mosquito:

      If the amount of mutant males competing for a female is much higher than the population of non mutant males, there is a very low probability that the infected mosquito will meet up with a normal male and produce an offspring.

      So for example, if the mutant mosquitoes outnumber the normal males 100 to 1, the chance of a normal female meeting a normal male is about 100 to 1. Therefore the dengue infected mosquito will have mutant offspring that will die off.

      2. case of one healthy mosquito bites an infected human:

      If there are other female mosquitoes of different species .. they will compete with each other for access to the humans (I don't know about others, but I personally like to stand outside while getting bitten by many mosquitoes so it's first come first served). So this means that if a rare female uninfected aedes aegypti will have a different time stumbling across and biting the one infected dengue carrier. If she does get lucky and find him .. she probably didn't both find an infected human AND mate with a non mutant male .. so her offspring will most likely die .. and the humans she bit and infected will not encounter another aedes aegypti. This is why the area this scheme is tried out on doesn't have to be 100% isolated from stray aedes aegypti occasionally wandering in. Especially after the rate of dengue has dropped.

      You said that females that reside in a dengue colony that is able to be isolated from the mutant males can come and infect people (if the colony is not somewhat isolated, they would have got wiped out because their population would have crashed and competitive mosquitoes moved in).

      Ok, let's assume a stray mosquito from this dengue colony flies in to a protected area where male mutants are regularly released: If there are other female mosquitoes of different species in the protected area .. they will compete with the aedes aegypti for access to the humans (I don't know about others, but I personally like to stand outside while getting bitten by many mosquitoes so it's first come first served). Therefore the number of people she bites and infects will be minimal, second .. we can assume she ends up mating with a mutant male .. so her offspring will not be viable. So, true .. the population will not be 100% protected .. however .. since there are very very few aedes aegypti the virus will likely not spread to other humans via another mosquito (chance of an aedes aegypti finding a dengue carrier is low).

      But you are i agree that unless a area is fairly well isolated (the perimeter at least) is susceptible to occasional infections of dengue from outside sources. However, I don't see how the virus can spread and cause an epidemic.

  29. moderate parent funny!!! by Max+Littlemore · · Score: 1

    Lots of people worried about birds or "The Ecosystem". Very few seem to be worried about the millions of PEOPLE who die HORRIBLE DEATHS thanks to Dengue fever.

    Oh if I had mod points....

    That's the funniest thing I've read in ages. It's like the whole argument that the economy is more important than the environment while completely ignoring the fact that the economy can't exist without the environment - but taken to a new ridiculous level.

    Well done!! Hahahahaha!

    --
    I don't therefore I'm not.
    1. Re:moderate parent funny!!! by Chandon+Seldon · · Score: 1

      It's like the whole argument that the economy is more important than the environment while completely ignoring the fact that the economy can't exist without the environment - but taken to a new ridiculous level.

      Sure, "The Ecosystem" is obviously more important if its ability to function as a whole is really threatened. DDT was never that sort of threat - sure, it screws up fish and birds when it bio-accumulates but that's pretty much it.

      One thing that people are really bad at is understanding complex systems that can only be usefully described mathematically or with large numbers. That applies to the economy, the environment, and any discussion involving "millions" of anything.

      The question with DDT is a very simple one: how many horribly sick birds does it take to really be worth letting millions of people die instead? There's a rational answer to that question based on the ecological realities involved. Any opinion on the topic that isn't based on a rational analysis of the actual trade-offs involved is dumb and wrong.

      --
      -- The act of censorship is always worse than whatever is being censored. Always.
    2. Re:moderate parent funny!!! by Cairnarvon · · Score: 2

      DDT was never that sort of threat - sure, it screws up fish and birds when it bio-accumulates but that's pretty much it.

      Birds are the primary predator for most insects (and fish feed on mosquito larvae), and insect populations recover from DDT sprayings much more quickly than birds or fish. And since they can now breed with impunity, as they don't have to worry about predators anymore, those insects will be a much bigger threat to the human population than they were before, and just spraying more DDT doesn't work, since at that point it starts to affect other wildlife (including humans), and the insects build up resistance quickly.

      Is this really so hard to understand? There are plenty of examples of this in history.

      Also, banning DDT didn't cause "millions of people" to die, no matter how popular that meme is with the anti-environmentalist crowd. Just repeating something over and over again doesn't make it true.

    3. Re:moderate parent funny!!! by Chandon+Seldon · · Score: 1

      Birds are the primary predator for most insects (and fish feed on mosquito larvae), and insect populations recover from DDT sprayings much more quickly than birds or fish. And since they can now breed with impunity, as they don't have to worry about predators anymore, those insects will be a much bigger threat to the human population than they were before, and just spraying more DDT doesn't work, since at that point it starts to affect other wildlife (including humans), and the insects build up resistance quickly.

      Nice story. If you can back it up with facts (solid references), it'll even be interesting.

      Also, banning DDT didn't cause "millions of people" to die, no matter how popular that meme is with the anti-environmentalist crowd. Just repeating something over and over again doesn't make it true.

      More than a million people die every year from Malaria.

      DDT was a key component in eliminating Malaria in the United States, according to This New Yorker Article.

      With poverty that could potentially have prevented some countries from buying DDT and the existence of DDT resistant mosquitoes it's impossible to say how many lives could have been saved by heavier DDT usage for malaria prevention over the past 30 years - but given the two basic facts I stated above it seems likely that the number is, literally, millions.

      You don't have to be an "anti-environmentalist" to agree with me, but you probably can't be part of the "ban dihydrogen-monoxide because chemicals are evil"/"cellphones cause cancer because they emit electromagnetic radiation" crowd.

      --
      -- The act of censorship is always worse than whatever is being censored. Always.
    4. Re:moderate parent funny!!! by Cairnarvon · · Score: 1

      Nice story. If you can back it up with facts (solid references), it'll even be interesting.

      Is Google down? Alternatively, you could also walk into a library and get a copy of Silent Spring. Carson documents numerous of cases like this in the US alone.

      More than a million people die every year from Malaria.

      DDT was never banned for use in combatting malaria. It was, however, banned for personal use in a lot of places, in part because of the serious threat to the environment and public health, but even more because mosquito populations were already developing a resistance, and this was a trend that needed to be slowed down or stopped. You can't kill too many mosquitos with DDT if they're immune to it.


      If anything, the DDT ban saved millions by making sure DDT resistance never became too big a problem.

  30. Speaking as a Malaysian ... by gier · · Score: 2

    I, for one, welcome our new genetically modified insect overlords.

  31. Re:SLASHDOT SUX0RZ by professional_troll · · Score: 0, Funny

    This just in... engineered mosquitoes could wipe out Goatse

    News at 11

    --
    Everyones a troll, I just have the balls to admit it!
  32. End of the world? by Scutter · · Score: 2, Funny

    So, release the mosquitoes in 3 years, 2011, which puts us on track for the end of the world in 2012 (according to the Mayan calendar).

    --

    "Tell me doctor, with all of your defenses, are there any provisions for an attack by killer bees?"
    1. Re:End of the world? by saxoholic · · Score: 1
      Not true. Quoted in wikipedia from a USA Today article, Susan Milbrath, curator of Latin American Art and Archaeology at the Florida Museum of Natural History, stated

      For the ancient Maya, it was a huge celebration to make it to the end of a whole cycle," says Sandra Noble, executive director of the Foundation for the Advancement of Mesoamerican Studies in Crystal River, Fla. To render Dec. 21, 2012, as a doomsday or moment of cosmic shifting, she says, is "a complete fabrication and a chance for a lot of people to cash in.
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mesoamerican_Long_Count_calendar#2012_and_the_Long_Count There is a record of the Mayans writing dates later than 21 Dec 2012.
  33. ..and rabbits by bagofbeans · · Score: 1

    Australia introduced rabbits into the wild too, now a major problem together with wild ex-domenstic cats.

    1. Re:..and rabbits by scythe000 · · Score: 0

      My God, so they deliberately introduced Cane Toads, Rabbits, and Cats? I don't even know what to say. I have to think that it's not just 20/20 hindsight making this look like a terrible idea. Maybe I'm wrong.

  34. I am legend by leozc · · Score: 1

    Sounds like another cloned story in I am legend

  35. So by Y-Crate · · Score: 2, Funny

    Would it be accurate to refer to these insects as "Africanized Mosquitos"?

    whatcouldpossiblygowrong, indeed. ;)

  36. The Conservative Slash-twit replies are telling by Reality+Master+201 · · Score: 1

    The environment? Pah.

  37. junkscience.com = corporate propaganda outlet by Scrameustache · · Score: 1

    Lots of people worried about birds or "The Ecosystem". Very few seem to be worried about the millions of PEOPLE who die HORRIBLE DEATHS thanks to Dengue fever. You know what happens if you fuck up the ecosystem? Millions of people die horrible deaths thanks to famine, landslides, brush fires, etc.
    --

    You can't take the sky from me...

    1. Re:junkscience.com = corporate propaganda outlet by Chandon+Seldon · · Score: 1

      You know what happens if you fuck up the ecosystem? Millions of people die horrible deaths thanks to famine, landslides, brush fires, etc.

      Great. Two plans have been proposed. Both result in millions of people dying. Now for the next step - smart people actually have to consider the scenarios in detail, as well as the other possible plans, and figure out which is best. And no, you can't rationally say that the one where the people die of famine is obviously better than the one where they die of dengue fever without actually looking at the details.

      --
      -- The act of censorship is always worse than whatever is being censored. Always.
    2. Re:junkscience.com = corporate propaganda outlet by ZWithaPGGB · · Score: 1

      Prove that releasing these mosquitoes will fuck up the ecosysstem. It's clearly proven that the existing ones kill millions of people. That's why I pointed out the real known effect: millions dead and infected with malaria, versus the hypothetical one: all the birds gone, on which the DDT ban was based.

      BTW: Why is corporate propaganda any less valid than Gaianist? At least they hew to the scientific method, as opposed to appeals to emotion and shamanism.

    3. Re:junkscience.com = corporate propaganda outlet by Scrameustache · · Score: 1

      Why is corporate propaganda any less valid than Gaianist? I don't know what's a gaianist, so I don't understand your false dichotomy, but corporate propaganda is invalid because it is a lie masquerading as information. They'll use profits from sales of addictive poison to fund fake research that says that their product is good for you.

      AS for DDT: Insects acquire immunity over time, and it accumulates in the food chain.
      --

      You can't take the sky from me...

    4. Re:junkscience.com = corporate propaganda outlet by ZWithaPGGB · · Score: 1

      Gaianist is those who worship Gaia: mother Earth. Since you spout as truth the propaganda of its adherents, you should know more about where the mediated version of it in the Mainstream Media has its origins. You could have Googled it, or Google "Gaia Hypothesis". Also known as "Deep Ecology". Unfortunately, they have hijacked the environmental movement; which started out being about not soiling our own nest, to create a clean and safe environment for people; and turned it into a "four legs good, two legs baad" movement. "Silent Spring" represents that watershed.

      Gainaist propaganda, like the DDT scare, kills at least as many people as the corporate kind. If we are to believe its core adherents, it requires a reduction of world population of anywhere from 50%-90%. That's a lot of people that have to die in the name of the religious belief of "sustainability" and "harmony with nature".

      DDT losing its effectiveness over time is a non-sequitur in the ban or not ban decision. If it isn't effective, people won't use it. There's ample proof that banning it (sorry, refusing to allow USAID $ to be spent on it, which amounts to the same thing) has led to a massive increase in the incidence of Malaria in poorer countries.

    5. Re:junkscience.com = corporate propaganda outlet by Scrameustache · · Score: 1

      DDT losing its effectiveness over time is a non-sequitur in the ban or not ban decision. If it isn't effective, people won't use it. And if it's losing effectiveness gradually, people will use more and more of it as it does. The salesmen will assure them that they simply need to spray more of it to reach the places they missed.
      --

      You can't take the sky from me...

    6. Re:junkscience.com = corporate propaganda outlet by ZWithaPGGB · · Score: 1

      And if it's losing effectiveness gradually, people will use more and more of it as it does. The salesmen will assure them that they simply need to spray more of it to reach the places they missed.
      This is still a non-sequitur to the decision to ban or not ban. It is perfectly reasonable to establish maximal doses, and safe locations (around the outside and windows and doors of human habitation, but avoiding watercourses) for spraying.

      Banning is knowingly killing millions of people on the basis that human lives are less valuable than the birds.

      I can counter your hypothetical straw man of over-use with a more real one: People have figured out that a container of motor oil punctured slightly and thrown in a lake tied to a rock (to sink the oil) stops mosquitoes from breeding, because as the oil floats to the top it effectively seals the surface of the lake. Of course, that kills EVERYTHING in the lake, but if you're a desperate impoverished village that wants to save your kids from Malaria, what else is available to you?

      Everything in life is about choices, often between the lesser of two evils, or an known evil and an unknown one. It's well proven that not using DDT leads to much greater incidence of Malaria. The evidence for the doomsday scenarios and carcinogenic effects of DDT trumpeted by the enviros is anecdotal/statistical correlation and extrapolation of trends, which is NOT scientific proof.

      I note you made no attempt to discuss any of my other points, or to address the report from the CDC that shows how stopping using DDT has resulted in millions of deaths, and millions more sickened for life, or further, that the resumption of use of DDT in Ecuador in 1997 led to a drastic reduction in the incidence of Malaria. I guess you ignore inconvenient truths, and like to fabricate convenient and hyperbolic hypothetical scenarios to advance your case. This, of course, along with ad-hominem attacks and an assumption that anyone who criticizes the courses of action advanced by radical environmentalism is a robber-baron capitalist who would rape the earth and leave it scarred for future generations, as opposed to someone who might actually prefer to think things through as opposed to act on emotion, and doesn't share the religion of the Enviros, are hallmarks of the current Enviro movement.

      Were you a writer for an "inconvenient truth"?
    7. Re:junkscience.com = corporate propaganda outlet by Scrameustache · · Score: 1

      I guess you ignore inconvenient truths, and like to fabricate convenient and hyperbolic hypothetical scenarios to advance your case. This, of course, along with ad-hominem attacks and an assumption that anyone who criticizes the courses of action advanced by radical environmentalism is a robber-baron capitalist who would rape the earth and leave it scarred for future generations, as opposed to someone who might actually prefer to think things through as opposed to act on emotion, and doesn't share the religion of the Enviros, are hallmarks of the current Enviro movement. Junkscience is funded by the industries it promotes.

      Go fuck yourself with your enviro-nut strawman, you ass, and DIAF.
      --

      You can't take the sky from me...

    8. Re:junkscience.com = corporate propaganda outlet by ZWithaPGGB · · Score: 1

      Who cares where the funding comes from? Science is Science. It is proven or not.

      Actually, what is supposed to happen is you advance a Hypothesis, if any cases are found that disprove it, you revise the hypothesis and lather, rinse, repeat. This process continues until the Hypothesis fits observed reality so closely that no cases are found to disprove it. After enough peer review and failures to disprove, it gets elevated to Theory. If a Theory stands long enough, and accurately predicts new phenomena, then it MIGHT get elevated to the category of Law.

      Most of what is claimed by the Enviro movement as fact is merely statistical correlation, which only indicates where one might want to start looking for a Hypothesis to a real scientist.

      You can apply the same rigor to the counterargument as he does to yours. The thing is, your arguments don't stand up to the light of day.

      Steven Milloy has degrees in Science (BA, Johns Hopkins), statistics as they relate to Biology (masters, Johns Hopkins) and law (Masters from Georgetown and Doctorate from University of Baltimore). Notably liberal universities, I might add. Presumably he didn't get those degrees on the basis of holding the right opinions or social promotion. He sure didn't get in on the basis of who his Dad was, or spend his whole career riding someone else's coattails.

      Al Gore, on the other hand, has a BA from Harvard and a some studies in Divinity from Vanderbilt. His professional career consists of being a Journalist, taking over his Daddy's seat in the senate, and being second string to Bill Clinton. Followed by so inept a presidential campaign that, despite winning the popular vote (the first presidential candidate to do so since 1988), he lost the election. For a comeback, he puts out a propaganda film that has been shown to have glaring factual errors that undermine his credibility, and thus the very real, and important, case he is trying to make.

      Which one is more qualified to weigh the evidence on all manner of biology, climate, and public policy?

      I would say that Steven Milloy has the requisite credentials, and Al Gore does not. He may be a Saint when he's preaching to the choir, but he is not going to convince anyone with a modicum of understanding of Science, and he provides lots of fodder to the opposing viewpoint with his hypocrisy in his personal lifestyle.

      Last, but no no means least, like a true Enviro-Nut, you resort to ad-hominem name-calling.

      Thanks for proving my point, you ignoramus.

    9. Re:junkscience.com = corporate propaganda outlet by Scrameustache · · Score: 1

      Who cares where the funding comes from? Science is Science. The funding comes with a copyright notice and a non disclosure agreement.
      If the corporation doing the funding don't like the results, the research is not published, and another methodology is devised to obtain the desired conclusion.
      --

      You can't take the sky from me...

  38. 3 words by PingXao · · Score: 1

    I Am Legend

    The book, not the movie. I am about as pro-science and innovation as you can get, but this is some scary shit. Pandora's Box times 1e80.

  39. The environment arguments are one-sided by khallow · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The thing that annoys me about the concern over certain mosquito species (some which aren't native) is that this ignores that poor people have the heaviest environmental impact. I doubt even a disruption of the local food chain is comparable. And what's one of the many ways to make lots of poor people? Sick people. Sick people miss work and incur health costs. They often get permanent disabilities. And that adds up especially when 100 million people get sick each year. And everyone that dies is someone who could have contributed to raising themselves and others out of poverty. And in case people have forgotten why poor people contribute more to environment problems, keep in mind that poor people cause more environmental damage both through lack of education, apathy, and because the small economic gain from considerable environmental damage can pay for food and such things. Further, they have a higher reproduction rate than wealthier people.

    While disruption of food chains are well known, the current argument seems to be that we don't "know" what effects the proposed strategy will have on the environment. As I see it, the effects of poverty and overpopulation are well understood while the effects of food chain disruptions are also well understood. What else is there? And more importantly, if one were rational about it, how would you rank the potential for environmental damage either way? What mitigating factors can you use? As I see it, the effects of poverty and the role of disease in perpetuating that are clearly harmful in an environmental sense. The effects of food chain disruption are pretty clear as well. Keep in mind that humans have been killing mosquitos wholesale for quite some time and disrupting food chains when they do so. Finally, there seems to be unfounded concerns about the modified mosquitos with no justification given for that. Name the danger, the unintended consequence not some vague concern because humans did some unrelated and that had unintended consequences.

    1. Re:The environment arguments are one-sided by nuzak · · Score: 1

      Whoah ... a counter-argument to the ecological concerns that doesn't read like Rush Limbaugh. Well put.

      Really, there's unintended consequences to everything, and it's just smart to plan for them. Sometimes take the actions anyway. Personally I think the "sterile breeding" programs are pretty sensible population control mechanisms, certainly far less destructive than other solutions. The locals depend on the ecology there, it ain't exactly a city with a supermarket every few blocks there.

      As for those condemning the "eco-hippies", I find it funny how the same dour grousing people who love to piss in the tree huggers' wheaties (or granola) about how there's no free lunch somehow think that their vigorous solutions are of course the perfect approach and outcome, to which any reservations are hand-wringing whining at best, and murderously callous at worse. We've seen resistant mosquitos come out of spraying, and the usual approach has been to just spray more. Do I really have to explain the consequences of that? Apparently, it seems I do.

      --
      Done with slashdot, done with nerds, getting a life.
    2. Re:The environment arguments are one-sided by ZombieRoboNinja · · Score: 1

      >>And in case people have forgotten why poor people contribute more to environment problems, keep in mind that poor people cause more environmental damage both through lack of education, apathy, and because the small economic gain from considerable environmental damage can pay for food and such things. Further, they have a higher reproduction rate than wealthier people.

      The trick here is that wealthy people don't chop down fewer forests and have fewer children just because money makes them eco-friendly and sterile. They do so because they're part of an industrialized (or post-industrialized) workforce, with different economic concerns.

      Take reproduction: in the poorest areas of the world, children are a "positive investment" - they provide free labor and are cheap to raise. This is obviously different in the U.S., where kids cost hundreds of thousands of dollars to raise and parents are lucky if they'll mow the lawn once a week. Plus, for a U.S. woman to have and raise a whole bunch of children incurs a large opportunity cost, because that woman could otherwise have a decently-paying job; in many parts of the world, economic opportunities for women outside of childbearing are very scarce.

      Now, let's say we wipe out all the mosquitos in sub-Saharan Africa and cure malaria and a whole host of other diseases. This will indeed help the people in those areas short-term and on an individual level. But it's not like as soon as they get off the sickbed they're going to go to work as accountants and tech support workers. They STILL won't have any infrastructure or economic opportunities, especially the women, and therefore they'll continue to chop down forests and have more children than can be supported.

      Now, I'm not saying you're wrong. Far from it. But I do think it's overstating the situation to say that killing these mosquitos will improve the social and economic situation of the affected people enough to alter their effect on the environment on a large level.

      (Pet theory time: I think the ideal humanitarian aid package to deeply troubled areas like sub-Saharan Africa would consist of as much "triage" aid as possible - food, clean water, medical supplies, etc. - but also birth-control education and supplies, so that women have the capacity to control their reproduction, and economic investments like microloans for women, so that they have the economic incentive not to have more children than the area can support. That way, hopefully, those areas could start to rise above sustenance level and emergency situations would become rarer. I'd be interested to hear if this makes sense to people with more knowledge about the subject.)

    3. Re:The environment arguments are one-sided by khallow · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Take reproduction: in the poorest areas of the world, children are a "positive investment" - they provide free labor and are cheap to raise. This is obviously different in the U.S., where kids cost hundreds of thousands of dollars to raise and parents are lucky if they'll mow the lawn once a week. Plus, for a U.S. woman to have and raise a whole bunch of children incurs a large opportunity cost, because that woman could otherwise have a decently-paying job; in many parts of the world, economic opportunities for women outside of childbearing are very scarce.

      Indeed, I think that sums it up nicely.

      Now, let's say we wipe out all the mosquitos in sub-Saharan Africa and cure malaria and a whole host of other diseases. This will indeed help the people in those areas short-term and on an individual level. But it's not like as soon as they get off the sickbed they're going to go to work as accountants and tech support workers. They STILL won't have any infrastructure or economic opportunities, especially the women, and therefore they'll continue to chop down forests and have more children than can be supported.

      My take is a little different. They will have some infrastructure and some economic opportunity. Not enough to undo a civil war or anarchic kleptocracy (a government barely capable of stealing from you) on its own. But it should be a significant boost even for the worst regions.

      Now, I'm not saying you're wrong. Far from it. But I do think it's overstating the situation to say that killing these mosquitos will improve the social and economic situation of the affected people enough to alter their effect on the environment on a large level.

      Actually, I disagree somewhat. We look at these regions as screwed up because of how they are organized. That is, bad governance causes disease outbreaks. But it's worth considering that maybe things also go the other way. Namely, that disease breaks society and government as well. For example, the worst HIV infected countries have all gone downhill. I doubt that the US would be running on such an even keel, if a significant fraction of the population were infected with malaria or HIV. One of the large genocides of the 19th century was in the Congo, then known as the Congo Free State. It is thought that most of the deaths from that genocide were due to disease, especially malaria the "sleeping sickness" or African trypanosomiasis spread by the tsetse fly. As I understand it, the typical African village of that region was surrounded by farms. That provided a buffer that the mosquito and tsetse fly couldn't live in. But with the advent of the Belgium-led exploitation of the region, it turned out that for growing rubber vines it was cheaper to kick villagers off and take the already cleared farmland than to clear rainforest (there's a picture of a town leveled for such a rubber plantation). Also, razing was an effective tactic for dealing with rebellious inhabitants as well. Kill those who don't run off, destroy the village, and let the jungle diseases finish the rest.

      But I suspect that if disease wasn't so prevalent in the Congo, then the Belgians wouldn't have been as successful and in control. There would have been a lot more live and feisty natives to deal with. I guess my point is that a infamously evil (even by the standards of the 20th century) government was aided tremendously by diseases that preyed effectively on the homeless.

    4. Re:The environment arguments are one-sided by maxume · · Score: 1

      The worst part of the 'unintended consequences' line of reasoning is the disproportionate way it gets applied to new risks, as if success in doing something very risky somehow removes the risk when doing it again. (stuff learned often does reduce the risk, but it doesn't remove it in the way that is often implied by people using the line of reasoning)

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    5. Re:The environment arguments are one-sided by jmdc · · Score: 2, Informative

      Poor people have the heaviest environmental impact? That's just blatantly false. The fact of the matter is, rich people use an order of magnitude more stuff than poor people. See here for pointers to sources.

    6. Re:The environment arguments are one-sided by khallow · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I glanced at the ecological footprint methodology. It's the wrong approach since it will automatically blame the most economically active regions rather than the regions that are actually polluting. It should be calculated like GDP. Each step in the supply chain uses a certain amount of land and generates a certain amount of economic value. Then as you will see, the poorest countries will have the worst environment impact by any reasonable measure: pollution per capita, species extinctions, incident of preventable disease, and worker safety. These are more noticeable when one compares them to the GDP that the activities generate. The poorest countries are extremely inefficient when it comes to producing value. Reducing disease in these countries will have the effect of reducing the environmental impact of these countries (since as I pointed out already, richer countries have lower environmental impact).

      I think it's quite important to consider where the ecological contribution to footprint comes from. Consider a shoe. A considerable portion of it is made overseas (for all but a few exceptions). If no part of the world is as poor as the bottom half of the supply chain that currently makes that shoe, then were will the pollution come from? What cheap land and labor is going to contribute inefficiently to that shoe's ecological footprint? In modern green lingo, we have "exported" the pollution to these poor countries. But what happens when the pollution no longer can be exported simply because there is no poor country to export it to? Then the supply chain for the shoe becomes more efficient and its footprint shrinks.

      And that's ultimately why ecological footprint is a bad measure. Here we are disagreeing on whether becoming wealthier will reduce environmental impact. And our interpretation depends wholely on how we measure it. My take is that while it's not intuitive, ecological footprint will go down when the world gets wealthier. That's because the supply chain gets more efficient.

    7. Re:The environment arguments are one-sided by jmdc · · Score: 1

      The methodology takes efficiency into account. For every type of land use and every country there are individual yield factors calculated so that comparisons can be made even though efficiency varies widely around the world. Here's what I'm looking at: http://www.footprintnetwork.org/download.php?id=4.

    8. Re:The environment arguments are one-sided by khallow · · Score: 1

      Ok, I see what you're saying. Reflecting back on my earlier post, I think I was a bit harsh. The ecological footprint does measure a useful quantity, but it doesn't actually illuminate the current problem. Just saying that the wealthy have a bigger ecological footprint doesn't tell us what happens when the whole world gets wealthy. It just tells us that the wealthy have a larger economic effect. If you look at where the collective ecological footprint is, you see that while the wealthy world consumes a lot of biologically productive land, so does the poor world. And the latter does so far less efficiently. It's worth noting that in the wealthy world many indicators are favorable. They have a lower reproductive rate; They are much more efficiently economically; better educated; and actually working to increase the amount of land set aside in a "natural" state. As the rest of the world grows in wealth, reaches the point where they can afford to conserve or set aside natural resources, reduce pollution, and do the other things that one associated with environmentalism in the wealthy world.

    9. Re:The environment arguments are one-sided by khallow · · Score: 1

      Sorry, my previous reply was mangled somehow. I meant to point out that in my view currently we're "exporting pollution" (that is developed world is moving much of its ecological footprint to some poorer country) because there are poor parts of the world that are willing to accept it either due to need, corruption, or poor environmental regulation. As the world gets richer, it'll become more expensive perhaps even impossible to continue with a polluting process. That will force companies into more environmentally sound and efficient practices and lowering the footprint of that process. I see public health, particularly the eradication of diseases like dengue fever or malaria that can leave its victims in poor health for long periods of time, being essential to creating wealth globally and bringing about the elimination of the environmental holdouts. To be honest, every major society on the planet is following some variantion of technological advancement as pioneered by the most developed countries of the world. That has lead invariably to considerable environmental protections in the most developed countries.

  40. Dengue Fever Music by RCanine · · Score: 1

    They are going to be so pissed.

  41. Re:Didn't we learn ... Hmm, if we could engineer by davidsyes · · Score: 1

    these mosquitoes to "eat shit", or "suck shit", we could rid the world of diseases associated with human fecal pollution. Now, if they gain (or, umm, display) sentience, and "evaluate the shit they're in", WE will be in a world of shit. Especially if they start to sting us. It'll be a real stinker.

    Is that argument enough to not breed engineered mosquitoes? This shit could literally come back to bite us in our asses.

    --
    Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
  42. Programmers' days numbered by HalfFlat · · Score: 4, Funny

    Programmers beware! You're next! This is only the tip of the iceburg:

    Oxitec is also working on genetically modified versions of fruit flies, pink bollworms and coding moths.
    1. Re:Programmers' days numbered by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      if they're going to release large numbers of infertile, disease-free female programmers for us to mate with, I for one don't see any problem.

  43. Re:Ripple Effect they won't kill 'em all by bombastinator · · Score: 1

    IMHO I do not believe this program will either completely eradicate mosquitoes or damage the environment. It may even be good for both.

    This program is fairly similar to a mosquito control program used in Alaska for many years. In that system, male mosquitoes are irradiated to destroy their sperm and released back into the environment. they eventually die from it of course, but not before they mate with thousands of female mosquitoes which are the only ones that bite. Since the females only mate once (or used to anyway, see evolution for further details..) They would go off to lay infertile eggs.

    As anyone in Alaska is likely to be willing to attest, there are still a lot of mosquitoes in Alaska.

    The older process, while a bit expensive, does help with the mosquitoes, and the new one may save lives, I suspect the main advantage to this procedure is that they are not throwing chemicals all over the place. To give an example, one of the more effective strategies for mosquitoes if you can't afford good chemicals (like most of Africa) and aren't too worried about the environment (like most of Africa) is to spray swamps with used motor oil.

    Environment or no environment, If I had no money and I thought my little girl was likely to die this spring if nothing was being done about the mosquitoes you might very well get in the car one morning to see a little red light blinking on your dash. This program seems to solve both problems

  44. Re:Ripple Effect they won't kill 'em all by QuoteMstr · · Score: 1

    Instead of wrecking the swamps with oil, why not drain them and put the land to good use? Drained swamps provide some of the most fertile farmland around.

  45. dead mosquitoes now means a rebound later by sneakyimp · · Score: 1

    The relationship between a population of creates and a population of predators that feed on that creature can be modeled by a nonlinear differential equation. I can't remember the specifics but the basic idea is that both populations experience periodic oscillations in their population. When there are a lot of mosquitoes, the creatures that eat them experience population growth because there's plenty of food around. When the predators population grows too large, they eat all the mosquitoes and then die off because there's nothing left to eat.

    The bottom line is that we can likely expect a huge mosquito rebound at some point.

  46. dengue by j1m+5n0w · · Score: 2, Informative

    A friend of a friend of mine got dengue in Indonesia. I was there after he had gotten over it, but from second-hand accounts it didn't sound like much fun. I think he had a mild form, where he ran a horrendous fever for about a week, and then had a full-body painful rash for about a week, and then had some serious depression for a few months until he figured out that you can take pills to counteract the neurological aftereffects (which I hear tend to last about a year). I'm not sure if he had to be hooked up to an IV during the fever, but I hear that's common practice.

    I don't know what the right solution is, but I'm glad people are working on it.

  47. I almost died, still say no to engineered bugs by dindi · · Score: 1

    About 5 years ago I drove to Nicaragua (from Costa Rica, where I live now). Being a weak European flesh and bone human I got sick as hell in the middle of nowhere, and survived on expired painkillers and fever reducing pills.

    No one is sure what happened, many frineds and even doctors told, that I probably had a strong case of dengue. I had extremely bad bone pain and so high fever I spent a day hallucinating in bed, waking up almost totally OK the day after.

    Anyway, I prefer an occasional case of these other than some other bio-engineered horror that will possibly wipe out human kind.

    No, seriously, I fear nature, especially because I see 6 ants attacking my fingers who are extremely interested in my mac keyboard. Ants never gave a damn about my keyboard, but since I got this sleek, sexy mac aluminum thing they are around it wanting to mate with me or something......

    Here is my message: mess with bugs, cancer, dengue, and you will land humanity in resident evil, i am legend, or some other freaky shit! Remember my words!!!

  48. "I am Legend" seems to have turned out OK by NotQuiteReal · · Score: 1

    Looks like the world ended up with a nice sustainable green society in the end.

    --
    This issue is a bit more complicated than you think.
    1. Re:"I am Legend" seems to have turned out OK by QuoteMstr · · Score: 1

      "Aeon Flux" might as well have been the sequel to "I am Legend".

  49. Re:Ripple Effect they won't kill 'em all by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 1

    What would really impress me would be if scientists engineered a Dengue Fever virus that killed mosquitoes, but which is immunologically recognized by the same systems in the mosquitoes. Then release that virus into the mosquito population. And watch the mosquitoes evolve to no longer carry the virus.

    If we want to get rid of the mosquitoes because they're annoying and disgusting, we can also encourage the bird, fish and reptiles/amphibians that eat them.

    Those are ways to work with the creatures we have to share the ecosystem with, not to work against them. And, because we're actually more familiar with success from husbandry than from extermination, we'll probably manage it better.

    --

    --
    make install -not war

  50. the way this evolution 'thingy' works .. by Respawner · · Score: 2, Insightful

    well, the way it goes with diseases is,
    random mutations cause some to be immune, they remain alive
    the next year only the immune creatures breed and they fill the void made by the lack of breeding of the then dead ones
    in 3 years time the population is back to the old level, but now the creatures have immunity for this affliction
    i can't see why this wouldn't happen with an engineered disease or disorder, but then i'm no biologist either, so fee lfree to correct me
    seriously, why is evolution that hard to believe for some people (religious fanatics mostly) ?

    1. Re:the way this evolution 'thingy' works .. by heinousjay · · Score: 1

      It's interesting how derisive you are in a post that betrays your utter lack of understanding for the current issue.

      --
      Slashdot - where whining about luck is the new way to make the world you want.
    2. Re:the way this evolution 'thingy' works .. by Cassius+Corodes · · Score: 1

      Read the article chief - this is a gene being added which prevents the development of mosquitos if they don't have an antibiotic in the environment. So in this case what will happen is that this gene will be dropped quick-smart (more mosquitos without it will survive) and the insect population will move on. What needs to be done is to include some kind of benefit from having the gene as well or this project is going to fail so fast it will be very embarrassing.

      --
      Control is an illusion, order our comforting lie. From chaos, through chaos, into chaos we fly
    3. Re:the way this evolution 'thingy' works .. by ibbey · · Score: 1

      Umm... His post seems pretty right on the money to me. Since you're obviously an expert, perhaps you can point out the flaw in his reasoning?

    4. Re:the way this evolution 'thingy' works .. by Respawner · · Score: 1

      well, by all means, tell me where I'm wrong (this is not meant as sarcasm)
      note that this is not radiation treatment, this method does allow for the mosquitoes to reproduce naturally before they die, it's the children of these males that will die unless treated from a genetic disease, but with several million mosquitoes, I do believe there might be a chance random mutations could have an effect.
      unfortunately i currently don't have time to research the exact workings or any statistics involved with random mutations, so i'm just basing this on the article and what I thought i knew, but you're more than welcome to educate me (please provide links with info if you plan on using jargon specific to genetics or micro-biology)

    5. Re:the way this evolution 'thingy' works .. by somersault · · Score: 1

      Because he was commenting completely out of context, someone was asking how you could become 'immune' to your own genes, not how natural selection works..

      --
      which is totally what she said
    6. Re:the way this evolution 'thingy' works .. by redxxx · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I'm pretty sure you are right, as just earlier this year there was an example of the very rapid evolution in an insect population you describe. It was with butterflies and on an island, and the disease in question only affected the male half of the population. The disease in question was very virulent, and this lead to a very strong selection of those with immunity and almost zero competition from those who were not. The immunity spread throughout the population within a few generations.

      In this case, there are already many mosquitoes that would not be effected by this. Though in the short term it would likely have some effect, unless it was repeated every single year, pretty much forever, the mosquito population would likely rebound rapidly. It, of course, is not the same exact situation, but it does point to the resilience of insect populations, and the ability of highly beneficial genetic traits to rapidly spread within them.

      link

    7. Re:the way this evolution 'thingy' works .. by mOdQuArK! · · Score: 1

      The mosquitoes are only carriers in this scenario, so unless being a carrier causes some sort of significant evolutionary disadvantage, there is no particular selection pressure to cause an "immune" mosquito to crowd out the other mosquitoes.

      Maybe there should be some genetic engineering to make humans immune to Denque Fever :-)

    8. Re:the way this evolution 'thingy' works .. by ibbey · · Score: 1
      Not really... The great grandparent asked how you "evolve immunity", and the grandparent explained the process pretty clearly. I'll concede, I'm not a genetic biologist, nor an expert in the technique being used to eradicate the mosquitoes. There may be some reason that the outlined process wouldn't work in this case, but I can't see any. It certainly is possible for a species to evolve immunity to a genetic disorder (designed or otherwise)-- as you noted it's called natural selection.

      Then Heinous Jay came along and said (in his typical eloquent, friendly and well-argued manner):

      It's interesting how derisive you are in a post that betrays your utter lack of understanding for the current issue.

      Unfortunately, there's nothing terribly "derisive" in the parent post. Evolution & Natural Selection is an easy topic. While there might be subtleties that are hard to grasp, there's no reason that the average slashdot reader couldn't grasp the fundamentals within 30 minutes, with the help of any number of web articles. Scratch that... There is one reason: They don't want to understand it. But willfully ignoring the evidence against your belief is not an acceptable solution. That sort of attitude is what lead us in to the war in Iraq, for example, and it's high time that more Americans started calling out this bullshit.

      Natural selection is true, people. Just deal with it. If you're to moronic to understand it, than you're also to moronic to vote. Please do your country a favor and stay home come election day. (There. Now that's derisive. Still true, though.)

      But all that said, my challenge to Mr. Heinous still stands... Since the grandparent is clearly mistaken about the evolutionary processes at hand, and since you are clearly such an expert, perhaps you can enlighten us about exactly what part of what he said "betray[ed his] utter lack of understanding for the current issue."
    9. Re:the way this evolution 'thingy' works .. by that+this+is+not+und · · Score: 1

      No. Look again. I asked how an organism could evolve immunity to a gene. Genes are not something external that invades an organism that it can become immune to.

    10. Re:the way this evolution 'thingy' works .. by ibbey · · Score: 1
      As I said, I'm not a genetic biologist. I'm pretty well versed in evolutionary theory, but certainly not an expert. That said, my understanding of what is happening here is that an artificial mutation is being introduced. That mutation causes the mosquito to die unless they recieve the appropriate antibiotic. From the article:

      By postponing death with tetracycline, the scientists can keep the altered bugs alive long enough to breed them in large numbers. When released into the wild, they no longer receive tetracycline so the previously silenced gene springs into action. The bugs stay alive long enough to breed with wild females, but their offspring die young.

      Whenever any two organisms mate, there are random mutations. There is a possibility that one of those random mutations will impart immunity to the flawed gene passed down by the father. If that offspring breeds, it's children will likely inherit the immunity as well, therefore spreading the immunity through the population.

      Natural selection works EXACTLY the same whether the flaw is an artificially created genetic mutation, or a natural one. Bacteria becoming immune to an antibiotic is also the same process-- those that survive the first generation pass whatever genes helped them survive on to their offspring, causing them to have an advantage. On, and on...

      If there is a flaw in that reasoning, I'd be interested in hearing it, but I believe thats all pretty sound.

      BTW, if anyone really does want to understand evolution more completely, check out the excellent FREE dvds from the Howard Hughes Medical Institute. There are two available:

      Both DVDs contain lectures by college lecturers to an audience of high school students. They are both quite accessible, and anyone in the Slashdot community should have no trouble grasping the content. One of the DVDs also contains a lecture by a Catholic Evolutionary biologist explaining how he reconciles his religious and scientific beliefs. No matter what your beliefs, doesn't it make sense to at least understand the topic? (This last bit is not directed at anyone in particular, but is directed at anyone who does not believe in evolution because of their religious beliefs.)
    11. Re:the way this evolution 'thingy' works .. by somersault · · Score: 1

      I don't know anyone that disputes natural selection ('micro-evolution'), I know a few that dispute 'evolution' from one species to another of course. I'm undecided on the whole matter, natural selection is demonstrably true over even a small number of generations, evolution requires a certain amount of faith that it does indeed happen..

      --
      which is totally what she said
    12. Re:the way this evolution 'thingy' works .. by ibbey · · Score: 1

      I'd recommend watching the two free videos that I recommended earlier in this thread. They are well made videos, by entertaining speakers. It's kind of amazing how many of the anti-evolution arguments have been thoroughly refuted, yet are still repeated on a daily basis (occasionally even in court rooms under oath) as if they were valid. They don't deal with all of them in the video, but they do talk about some of the most famous. Even abiogenesis itself has been done in a lab environment, though not at a level to please anti-evolution zealots.

      You're right, at it's very core is something that we can never know for 100% certain-- are the mutations random, or are they caused by some invisible hand. To me, this is an obvious place for okham's razor. The simplest answer is randomness, so until someone can show me something that suggests otherwise, I'll continue to assume that's the correct answer.

  51. Has anyone ever seen.... by sackadatfunk · · Score: 1

    The movie "Mimic".....

  52. Easy fix.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You just gots to ding a dang dong their dengue long sting prong.

  53. Other effects by LoudMusic · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I'm all about saving lives, even if they're outside of my Monkeysphere. And others have mentioned issues with a mosquito replacement, or the problems with the species that eat the mosquitoes.

    But what about the 5 million people per year that suddenly aren't dieing of mosquito transmitted diseases? That's a lot of new people! The people that are making all these new people are going to have to dramatically change their life style. It's no longer "make more babies and hope they life". They'll have to make fewer babies and keep them fed. We went through that in the United States a couple hundred years ago as our medications got profoundly better, but it took time for people to catch on.

    The populations in the areas most effected by this big of a change are going to experience HUGE population growth, doubling in years instead of decades or more. Can their cultures support that kind of growth?

    --
    No sig for you. YOU GET NO SIG!
  54. The end is nigh ... by Jumperalex · · Score: 1

    and the world shall end not with a bang but with a wimper.

    --
    If you can't be good, be good at it!
  55. The biggest mosquito by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    was made of wood, had 2 merlin engines and could do 400mph.

  56. I've had Dengue. by Bill,+Shooter+of+Bul · · Score: 1

    Its not that bad. I'm not sure what the mortality rate is, but my doctors weren't too concerned. It mainly kills in conjunction with malnutrition. I mean its a sucky four weeks in bed feeling like crap, but you get better.

    --
    Well.. maybe. Or Maybe not. But Definitely not sort of.
    1. Re:I've had Dengue. by Nqdiddles · · Score: 1

      You're right, you're not sure what the mortality rate is.
      When you live in a civilized, clean and medically well provided for area and still hear of otherwise reasonably healthy people dying every year from this you won't be trying convince people that it's no big deal and that you'll just "get better".
      I'm glad you did though. Although the highest risk is to people who are already have health problems, the very fact that it manifests as something people might shrug their shoulders at an soldier on means that many do get VERY sick. And quite a few die.
      I don't believe genetic manipulation is the answer to every little thing that bothers us, but I do think that the science should be done - in a thorough and methodical manner.

      --
      And that kids is how I met your mother.
    2. Re:I've had Dengue. by idego · · Score: 1

      I suspect you had Dengue as opposed to Dengue Hemorrhagic Fever http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dengue, neither are nice. But one is like a bad case of flu and treated with a saline drip in a bad case, the other is potentially lethal and needs whole blood transfusions which are tricky to find in most of the badly effected areas. Killing of the Dengue carrying mosquito would still leave you with plenty of other breeds / species to swat by hand including the ones that carry malaria.

    3. Re:I've had Dengue. by Bill,+Shooter+of+Bul · · Score: 1

      Uhmm... Nqdiddles ( if that is your real name). I received dengue in Haiti ( the poorest nation in the western hemisphere). Like I think I might have said in my first post, people worry about malaria, not dengue. Malaria has a much higher mortality rate. Its often difficult to tell the difference between the two, but when people develop symptoms of either disease, they hope is dengue. Maybe, due to the lack of doctors, they just assume every death from the symptoms is from malaria.

      I am not a doctor and only speak from my experience working with very poor people.

      --
      Well.. maybe. Or Maybe not. But Definitely not sort of.
    4. Re:I've had Dengue. by Bill,+Shooter+of+Bul · · Score: 1

      True that. I lived for two years in a horror film, where giant clouds of disease carrying mosquito blotted out the sun. Kill them All, I say. In Haiti, the environment is already so screwed up, killing all of the mosquitoes wouldn't have much of an impact.

      --
      Well.. maybe. Or Maybe not. But Definitely not sort of.
    5. Re:I've had Dengue. by mOdQuArK! · · Score: 1

      I wonder how hard it would be to create little mini-factories that attracted all those mosquitoes & turned them into fertilizer? Reduce the mosquito population & find some way to get nutrients back into the soil at the same time...

  57. Re:Niggers stink! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    why are you sniffing and groping them?

  58. What humans? by dotancohen · · Score: 1

    All the talk about upsetting the ecosystem has left out one tiny important detail: with less human deaths, there will be more humans. That might sound all nice and cheery at first, but what will those humans eat? Will they need foreign aid for food, shelter, and medicine?

    Maybe instead of making sure that there are more humans, we should concentrate our efforts on improving the lives of the humans that we can.

    --
    It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong.
  59. I'm a monster for bringing this up, but... by Simonetta · · Score: 1

    I'm a monster for bringing this up, but... if you go about curing the diseases that kill 100 million people a year, and you don't provide jobs, housing, food, clothes, education, health care, etc. for these people that would have died but now live, then you have 100 million MORE people in the world that have no jobs, housing, food, clothes, education, health care, AND believe that the Americans are responsible for all the misery in their lives.

        Which they are. Especially you, Mr. Gates.

        And if the 100 million people who would have died of diseases go on to have ten kids each, then there is another billion dirt-poor people in the world who will come to believe that they will go directly to heaven and have 72 hamburgers, 72 cars, and 72 virgins if they manage to kill an American (like you...walking with your sweetie on your honeymoon on a beautiful third-world unspoiled beach).

        So if you're not prepared to provide jobs, housing, food, clothes, education, health care, ect. for the people whose lives that you save by killing mosquitoes, then don't cure the diseases. Because you're not doing these people (or the rest of us) any favors.

        Jeez, don't you just hate people like me who say things like this? Why can't we all just, you know, like, good things and shit, man!

    1. Re:I'm a monster for bringing this up, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      then you have 100 million MORE people in the world that have no jobs, housing, food, clothes, education, health care, AND believe that the Americans are responsible for all the misery in their lives

      The size of the population compared to the available resources is the problem. The 100 million more people you claim will have no jobs, etc., will have jobs, housing, food, clothes, education and health care, in roughly the same proportion as exists now. The infrastructure simply expands as there are 100 million more to take care of, and amazingly enough, there are 100 million more potential workers to fill the jobs that this creates. The percentages stay the same (roughly) as to how many of those 100 million are on the dole, so nothing changes.

      What will need to change is the idea that people need to have 10 babies to ensure that enough of their children survive to perpetuate the family. Otherwise, the wall that will be hit is the available resources to support the population. (e.g. enough farmland to grow crops for food, enough land for housing, enough available drinking water, enough energy supply to run their households, etc.)

      As far as the disenchanted blaming it on Americans, well, that's just a perception/attitude problem that needs to be addressed anyway. I'm an American, and yup, we come on pretty strong, and insert/project our ideals on others when they are not welcome. We do this far too often, and I'm pretty sure that we have earned the bad reputation...

  60. Nice pets by Fuzzums · · Score: 2, Insightful

    And I think rabbits would make a very nice pet in Australia. Rabbits don't cause any harm, do they?

    --
    Privacy is terrorism.
  61. Ignorant by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'd have no hesitation in pulling the trigger if it mean eliminating every damn mosquito on earth. Sorry if that sounds unenlightened. You should apologize. Being ignorant is one thing, choosing to remain ignorant as you have done is inexcusable. You sound like one of those Republican morons who'd think nothing of wiping out the entire wildlife in a national park because it is getting in the way of an oil company.
  62. AND 28 Days Later... by EdIII · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Milla Jovovich is naked on the shower floor........

    I'm reminded of both Resident Evil and Aeon Flux, in that our arrogance destroyed the world on one hand and our rush to find a solution made us sterile on the other.

    At least this company is doing this to save millions of lives. I can respect that and genuinely admire the scientists that have worked hard to do this. Monsanto programs organisms to die to protect intellectual property profits. I condemn that wholeheartedly.

    I DO just LOVE these "mad scientists" though. We have been studying genetics, at the DNA and gene level for what.... a few decades? Now we already have the confidence to introduce organisms into the environment with altered genes which program them to die. I guess I have been in cave and missed all those extensive scientific peer-reviewed studies of the mosquitoes effect on those specific environments. Their specific interactions, their exact place in the food chain, etc. We don't need all that. It would take too long, lets just press the button now and find out what happens. We're so smart and capable and our "hairy reasoners" can come up with a solution if something bad happens. If I really have been in a cave and we have all that groundwork done, peer-reviewed, and verified we STILL don't have the experience of "programmed death" out in the open. I really do think that is shortsighted to believe that the world is so huge that we cannot have any large scale impact on the environment and ecosystems. It is even more shortsighted to believe that we fully understand genetics and these altered genes cannot hop from organism to organism. AFAIK genetic alteration can only occur through a few methods and viruses transmitting new codes into existing organism is one of them. I don't know everything about it, but I know enough to be nervous.

    I appreciate the poster who pointed out that there are so many unknowns on either side, the ignorance of the real longterm effects is not a justification for inaction given the consequences of it. However, I would still point out that we are talking about introducing sterility into a population through a brand new science which is still not largely understood. One could argue otherwise, but I think it is overconfident or downright arrogant to think we have come that far that quickly.

    I don't live in a tropical locale and I have tremendous empathy for those populations that do live there and have to watch children die due to these diseases. It's very easy for us to judge from a distance and weigh the pros and cons when our lives are not being weighted and measured. I know at some level I am being hypocritical, since my standard of living in the US DOES help destroy the world on a daily basis.

    However, I will risk playing the role of the hypocrite, by asking if we really need to provide the solution in this way? We are not attacking Dengue Fever here. We are attacking its distribution mechanism to get at it indirectly with unforeseen consequences to the ecosystems which we are modifying. I instead favor their other method of developing an inoculation for the mosquitoes against the virus in the first place. A much more sensible and less risky proposal.

    I also find it interesting that the discussion seems to have split into the "Eco-Nuts" Vs. "Manifest Destiny Assholes". Question the science and its impact on the environment and your an Eco-Nut, favor the human populations and invoke emotions you are shortsighted and arrogant. Perhaps there is a middle ground.

  63. Vaccinate people against Dengue Fever by giafly · · Score: 2, Informative

    New Vaccination Technique May Work for Dengue Fever. There's no commercial vaccine yet, but working on one seems a safer bet then mass-releases of genetically modified insects.

    --
    Reduce, reuse, cycle
    1. Re:Vaccinate people against Dengue Fever by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually the safest bet would be to implement both plans - the ability to vaccinate everyone quickly in a third-world country may be lacking. However, if the mosquitos are used once or twice at the oustset then that gives the country more time to issue the vaccine. Once the vaccine has been delivered to a majority of the population and the kinks in the delivery system are ironed out then it will be possible for more people to easily get the vaccine and the genetically modified mosquitos can stop being released. Win-Win

  64. lies by Scudsucker · · Score: 1

    DDT was never banned from being used for mosquito control, which involves spraying small amounts inside houses to repel mosquitoes. It's use was banned for agriculture, which was breeding resistant mosquitoes waaaay back in 1959.

  65. I know this isn't "PC" but... by tacocat · · Score: 1

    So we've found a solution to keep an additional 5 million people alive in a region of the planet where a majority of the countries are third world. A nice idea but it's going to actually increase the populations of poor and under fed people on the planet. I think someone should probably point that out to the NGO groups that have to feed all these poor.

    Considering the amount of damage we have been able to inflict on the planet, shouldn't we be focusing on trying to heal the ecosystems so we'll have the food and materials to feed people without stripping the planet bare?

    And for those who are sending food -- it hasn't helped them become self sufficient yet...

  66. Let me find my RID spray by freaker_TuC · · Score: 1

    Let me find my RID spray, that will help me off those nasty coding moths... ... oh, bad spray? Well atleast I won't have any problems of lice the next few weeks!

    --
    --- I am known for the ones who want to find me on the net. Is that a privacy risk or a privilege? One might wonder..
  67. Sounds like... by Fuzzypig · · Score: 1

    The Gem'Hadar! Weren't they battle field troops totally dependent upon a drug that only their masters could produce? These masters used the drug to ensure loyalty of their troops, then denied it when they no longer wanted the troops to function.

    --
    Windows guys please stop pissing on everyone and the Linux guys stop pissing in the wind, hoping to hit Windows guys!
  68. This is great by LuisAnaya · · Score: 1

    I lived in Puerto Rico and dengue fever and its hemorrhagic variety are a constant danger every summer. I have many good friends and relatives that have died because of it. Although I'm usually leery about genetics manipulation in animals, but if this does succeed it would be a big win for those who live in the tropics at the mercy of this disease.

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    Vi havas e-poston.
  69. If they don't reproduce ... by kneemoe · · Score: 1

    then what good is it? I can only imagine they think these will mate with normal mosquitoes and so the pop will drop because whichever 'normal' ones mate with the GM ones won't produce offspring, but that just means the normal mosquitoes will have a competitive advantage and breed like crazy - are they really going to be able to release so many of these *all the time* so that it actually impacts their population numbers?

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    My Sig Sucks
  70. Re:Ripple Effect they won't kill 'em all by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yes either that or the mosquito evolves and becomes immune to your new, more dangerous Dengue Fever virus. Or, since killing the mosquitos is not in the virus best interest, the virus evolves to undo your genetic modification.

    If there's anything we can learn from evolution it is that it can (and will) solve problems in rahter creative ways.

  71. Disease not spread by all mozzies? by rishistar · · Score: 1

    I don't know about Dengue, or what the other types of mosquitos actually are, but malaria is only transmitted across humans by one type of mosquito - and even then only one gender - the female anopholes mosquito. This would lessen the environmental impact if this one variant were reduced in numbers when compared to a blanket ban on mosquitos in general.

    --
    Professor Karmadillo Songs of Science
  72. Yellow Fever can be stopped too by quilombodigital · · Score: 1

    (some links to brazilian sites)

    The Aedes aegypti mosquito is the same mosquito that spreads the yellow fever.

    Here in Brazil we are now having some yellow fever cases on urban areas (usually we have cases at the forest, but we dont have on urban areas since 1942).

    People are getting a little paranoid and running to have the vacinne (which by the way is very effective), since it protects only for ten years and most of population dont have it. I have it because I traveled to north five years ago and it was obligatory.

  73. Talk about mosquito by kryliss · · Score: 1

    I don't know about you guys but all this talk about mosquitos is making me itch...

    --
    --- If the bible proves the existence of God, then Superman comics prove the existence of Superman.
  74. Let's crank it up a notch by Bongfish · · Score: 1

    How about the alternatives to this, such as engineering mosquitos that reproduce less, or can't bite through human skin, or cannot carry the disease, or who explode in a hilarious chain reaction upon contact with human blood? How about releasing some that can carry beneficial biological material around (whatever that might mean) instead of deadly diseases?

    We've done this kind of thing before by releasing irradiated insects to reduce the population, if I remember correctly. A big risk of this would be the accidental release of swarms of unaltered insects, perhaps if they weren't irradiated strongly enough or if the genetic alterations were half-assed or behaved in unexpected ways in the wild.

    Basically, if we're going to mess with nature these days we might as well go crazy with it. I doubt we're able to predict the result on the food chain and ecosystem from even the smallest tweak or change, so I welcome the plagues of exploding, HIV vaccine-injecting super-mosquitos powered by biological ion engines.

  75. Wouldn't it be more effective if... by The+Faywood+Assassin · · Score: 1

    ...they designed mosquitoes that were sensitive to Dengue Fever?

    That way they would die before transmitting the disease, without wiping out the entire mosquito population? I would think that it would be more effective with a lower impact to the environment.

    And it would be self-sustaining without requiring repeat releases.

    Beny

    --

    "I'm a humble person really,

    I'm actually much greater than I think I am"

  76. Oh yeah...this is JUST what the world needs...NOT! by RogueWarrior65 · · Score: 1

    Adding another 5 million humans to the world population total every year. Yep, that's just what we need.

  77. Natural selection? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Isn't this a very temporary solution? Let's say we have the three bug types A (natural insects) and B (special killers) and C (special killer offspring). A and B breed to produce C which die off before they can reproduce. This leaves D (normal offspring) to reproduce as per normal and pass on their ok genetic material to future generations. Even worse, some of C genetically mutate to render their killer DNA ineffectual and they pass that on to their progeny.

    RTFA is a perfectly acceptable answer in this case as I only skimmed it.

  78. Correlary by gnick · · Score: 1

    Sorry if this seems like a trolling effort, but I have to ask. If saving 100 million people a year is such a sin, are you suggesting that killing an additional 100 million/year would be doing them a service? After all, that would leave more resources to spread around...

    --
    He's getting rather old, but he's a good mouse.
  79. Preference for mosquitoes smelling tetracyclene? by wikdwarlock · · Score: 1

    Wouldn't it be possible for some mosquitoes affected by this attack to happen to also smell/taste tetracyclene in people and animals? And therefore, be able to survive provided they always follow that sensory signal along with whatever they use to find blood? So, then we have mosquitoes that just hover around places w/ lots of antibiotic treated animals, like dairy cows, chickens, etc (I'm actually not sure if these particular animals are treated w/ this particular antibiotic, but the point is the same), or around places w/ antibiotic treated people like hospitals, or people who take prescription antibiotics for acne among other things. Seems to me like nature will correct this man made genetic problem pretty quickly.

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    "I must not fear. Fear is the mind killer." -Bene Gesserit Litany Against Fear
  80. Mod Parent Up - Econuts one step short of solution by ObiWonKanblomi · · Score: 1

    DDT works, but it works too well.

    However, DDT in combination with good land management (filling in some bodies of water with dirt, better irrigation/drainage, etc.) led to the elimination of malaria in North America. I am sure some people will google to search for a few examples of the legacy of DDT usage in N. America.

    For the non-Americans who always complain about the US not helping malaria, a few developing countries have figured out ways to severely reduce Malaria. From the wikipedia article on malaria:
    Brazil, Eritrea, India, and Vietnam have, unlike many other developing nations, successfully reduced the malaria burden. Common success factors included conducive country conditions, a targeted technical approach using a package of effective tools, data-driven decision-making, active leadership at all levels of government, involvement of communities, decentralized implementation and control of finances, skilled technical and managerial capacity at national and sub-national levels, hands-on technical and programmatic support from partner agencies, and sufficient and flexible financing.

    These are all countries which receive little to no support from the US.

    Science nor engineering alone will solve this problem. However, with science, a "best practices" approach, an improved infrastrucute, and the intitiative of the people from within each of their own countries will eliminate malaria.

  81. This is why people don't trust science by cavebison · · Score: 1

    On one hand, scientists say the world is overpopulated, and on the other they do this.

    Whatever brings in the grant money I guess.

  82. I for one welcome this.... by vuffi_raa · · Score: 1

    I have had dengue fever when I was a kid- it almost killed me.

  83. I disagree by infonote · · Score: 1

    As long as it doesn't mutate like 'I am Legend'. Anyway, we cannot even make safe code (programming). Let alone the consequences on humanity. I agree there should be research on this issue, but it must not be spread. There are too many variables we do not know about.

    --
    Visit http://www.kaizenlog.com
  84. Not taking US Aid means they can use DDT. by ZWithaPGGB · · Score: 1

    The reason the countries that you mention have solved the problem is, at least in part, that they USE DDT. Since they aren't dependent on aid from the US, they aren't stuck with the condition that they not use DDT that goes along with US aid.

    Lest the Eco-Nuts post Lambert's screeds in reply: the requirement that no USAID funds be used for DDT is an effective ban, since the record keeping required if you DO use DDT anywhere to prove no US funds were used for it is onerous beyond all reason for a third world country.