Slashdot Mirror
Software Tool Strips Windows Vista To Bare Bones
Preedit writes "A free download that can cut Windows Vista's gargantuan footprint by half or more is developing a big following on the Internet. vLite is a configuration tool that lets users automatically delete a lot of unnecessary Vista components — such as Windows Media Player and MSN installer — to pare the OS down to a reasonable size.
The software is catching on. An InformationWeek story notes that a forum that asks users to suggest new features has drawn nearly 50,000 page views.
Meanwhile, Microsoft officials have themselves conceded that Vista is "bloated" and are developing the next version of Windows on a core called MinWin, which is smaller than Vista by an order of magnitude."
I'm failing to see any reason to upgrade to Vista at all (I don't even like Halo, so Halo 3 is a no no.. and if a lot of games start requiring Vista then I'll just have to move to console gaming).
which is totally what she said
This software has been out for a while as a beta I have used it and it works well. I haven't used the newer version yet but I assume based on nLite that it can only get better from there.
Well they (just got/are going to get) a WHOLE lot more..
622677120
Great. Now somebody turn this into a virus, and we're all set.
I'll stick with Gentoo. Load what I use, don't load what I don't.
No folly is more costly than the folly of intolerant idealism. - Winston Churchill
.. and then pushes it into a freezing lake?
ccalam - acoustic versions of new songs.
... unless and until it removes the draconian, RIAA- and MPAA-friendly DRM from the OS, and returns control of the PC back to the user who bought it.
The same people also have a tool called nLite, which does the same stuff for Windows XP. It works well for stuff like slipstreaming SATA drivers, but I've had a few problems when I used more advanced features like removing un-needed Windows components -- when installing stuff like .NET from Windows Update, Windows required me to put in the XP install disc, which obviously is non-workable for user desktops.
To be fair, that was an older version (1.3?), and they've had a couple of releases since then.
Hail Eris, full of mischief...
E pluribus sanguinem
MinWin is a non-graphical kernel that doesn't do much more than boot up and host a webserver. It's not exactly a full functional operating system, so yes it's going to be considerably smaller.
I do not have this kind of time anymore. The other day I received an e-mail from a friend. He wanted to know how he could get the absolute most out of his hardware for a very specific game he plays (World of Warcraft). I began with recommending plain old Linux and then installing wine and trying to run it. But I soon realized how hopeless this would be as I think he has a nice ATI card that once was top of the line five months ago.
So I told him to get a fresh XP install and not install anything else on it. Perhaps this MinWin or core of a Windows will satisfy him? Perhaps it will also satisfy me in finding simplicity in an operating system that can run my games and programs that are only for win32?
My work here is dung.
emeger stlib; emerge kde4
run those two commands on your pc, go out of your basement and don't come back till those two are finished.
----
A free software tool that promises to strip down the Windows Vista operating system -- which even some Microsoft (NSDQ: MSFT) officials have called "bloated" -- to a minimalist state is attracting big interest on the Internet.
vLite, created by developer Dino Nuhagic, automatically removes a number of non-essential Windows Vista components in order to pare the OS's heavy footprint by half or more.
vLite allows users to preselect numerous Vista features for automatic removal prior to installing the OS on their personal computers. Among them: Windows Media Player, Windows Photo Viewer, MSN Installer, Wallpapers, SlideShow, Windows Mail and other utilities.
"It's not just about hard disk space. There is also an increase in OS responsiveness and you don't have to tolerate all kinds of things you don't use," said Nuhagic, in an e-mail to InformationWeek explaining why he launched the project.
vLite, however, isn't for the technically timid. The software warns that the changes it imposes on Vista are "permanent, so be sure in your choice."
Nuhagic said he doesn't know exactly how many downloads vLite has seen -- but a forum that asks users to submit suggestions for the next version has drawn almost 50,000 views.
The emergence of tools like vLite reflect the frustrations voiced by many computer users over Vista's bulk and resource requirements.
Loaded with an abundance of features and tools designed to ease navigation and bolster security, the Home Premium and Ultimate editions of Vista both require a whopping 15 GBs of available disk space for installation. By contrast, Windows XP -- Vista's predecessor -- requires 1.5 GB of available space for installation of the Professional version.
With Vista bearing a footprint 10 times larger than XP's, even Microsoft officials are expressing concerns about Windows' growing waistline. Speaking last year at the University of Illinois, Microsoft distinguished engineer Eric Traut said the operating system had become bloated.
"A lot of people think of Windows as this large, bloated operating system. That may be a fair characterization," said Traut.
In response to such concerns, Traut said Microsoft has adopted a new, modular approach to OS development that will yield more streamlined products beginning with Windows 7 -- a successor to Windows Vista that's expected to be available some time in 2010.
The approach calls for Windows developers to use a bare bones version of the OS -- dubbed MinWin -- as the building block for their next programming effort. MinWin is built on about 25 MBs of data -- making it smaller than Windows Vista by an order of magnitude.
Until it's ready, there's always programs like vLite.
CDE open sourced! https://sourceforge.net/projects/cdesktopenv/
I don't think it's fair to call Vista a bloated operating system. You look at the list of crud that this tool removes; that's not Operating System, that's application crud that should be optional in the install anyway.
Just because MS wants it to be part of the compulsory install (all the better to monopolise your computer and online profile) doesn't make it part of the operating system. I mean, come on, what makes MSN Installer part of an OS?
I think the person that said that MinWin is smaller than vista by an order of magnitude needs to rethink their description or check their numbers. The article says that Vista Ultimate requires 15GB to install (I am not sure if it is saying 15GB is only needed during the installation process or it needs that much after installation). However, the article also states that MinWin is based on 25MB of data. The article does not say how large an entire installation of MinWin will be. However the article phrases things in a way that leads me to believe they were only speaking of the base of MinWin when stating that it is smaller than vista by an order of magnitude. The differences is more than an mere order of magnitude.
nLite let you tune the core OS install - exposing uninstall options the 'default' installer, letting you fold in service packs and patches, drivers, pre-sorting license keys, users, and custom settings. When you get done, you can do a clean slate install and end up with something that won't take another four hours of tweaking to get where you wish was a starting point directly from the ISO.
I started using nLite to build an XP distro that would run on a CF card. Running minimal services, I noticed how much faster it was too -- became the install for my gaming rig. Space was also a concern when building VMWare images, so starting with a mean clean install was a godsend. Granted, it took a couple tries - it is very easy to kill off a critical bit when you do this sort of chainsaw sculpture to the OS. Once you get it right, it is a fantastic (free!) tool. It is wonderful to see the same technology available to Vista.
+++ UGUCAUCGUAUUUCU
Good, but isn't it too soon to hassle with Vista?.
Did anyone else misread "MinWin" as McWin?
If at first you don't succeed, call it version 1.0.
Yeah, right. A big company's approach to all difficult problems is to imagine a solution for them and create a name for that solution. Problem? Vista is bloated. Solution: create the name "MinWin."
If Microsoft wanted to reduce Vista's bloat, they'd just reduce it.
They might, if they had any good faith about it, analyze and SQA vLite and license it or offer and approved version. Or structure the present Vista so that it installs a reasonable core and allows you to "opt in" to the extra stuff.
What's likely happening is a turf battle between all the managers that want their bloat in the product, are threatened by any suggestions that it be trimmed, and will fight it's being trimmed to the death--or at least for a couple of years when they move on to their next assignment.
If MinWin happens at all, what will happen is that they'll trim Vista by 20% and then pack on 100% of new bloat.
"How to Do Nothing," kids activities, back in print!
Microsoft alway said Vista wasn't fat, it was just big-boned. Now they can prove it!
Kwisatz Haderach
Sell the spice to CHOAM
This Mahdi took Shaddam's Throne
3 years running AVG: $0
3 years running Ad-aware, Spybot, and CCleaner: $0
Now, I don't run Vista either, but saying it's cheaper to buy an iMac is a little disingenuous.
I see your informative link, and raise you a pithy comment.
MinWin's name suggests it may be a clone, or a similar OS to, Minix. It may just be because it's 'mini', but I'd like to think they're actually rewriting Windows, starting with the kernel.
Those using pirated Tinysoft signatures(TM) are a real threat to society and should all be thrown in jail.
If there's a castle floating upside down in the sky, then there's a castle floating upside down in the sky.
Damn you! My Linux install just went away, but Vista is still there!
W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
There are free Virus scanners out there (ClamWin is non-active and works well, but for active scanners Avast and AVG are both free for personal use and both work well). For spyware you have Adaware and Spybot which are available in personal editions for free, as well as MS's own Anispyware product (Windows Defender).
That being said, for a good user, spyware isn't really a problem (my spyware problems essentially are zilch just by a) not installing any random program that promotes itself, and b) using Firefox instead of IE).
Vista does have it's issues though. namely driver related. Playing iTunes videos off of a SATA hard drive connected to an Nvidia SATA controller still doesn't quite work right over a year after release. The WoW launcher app has never worked correctly on my Vista laptop (works if I directly launch WoW.exe though).
Overall, it's not TERRIBLE, but it does have it's issues (admittedly, I run the basic version so no Aero in the way, and I've reverted the Start menu to "classic" behavior). I do use a Mac desktop though and think that it is the BETTER option, but in no fair way can you call it the CHEAPER option. I have a Linux box too (usually Gentoo, but I'm playing with OpenSUSE atm), but it's more for playing around with Linux than to actually get anything done with it.
"People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
First, they said that 95 was buggy and that 98 fixed them. Then, 98 was too unstable and XP was rock solid. Last year, XP was too old and Vista was new and shiny. Now, Vista is bloated and MinWin is lean.
Could perhaps Microsoft decide if their products are good or bad?
From the AVG free version license: http://free.grisoft.com/doc/98/us/frt/0
So: http://www2.grisoft.com/doc/buy/us/crp/0 2 years AVG Antivirus: $39
- or -
2 years AVG Internet Security: $70
So, 3 years of AVG Internet security is another $140.00. - total is $1,040.00
http://www.macmall.com/macmall/families/new_promo~dp~7349100~family~macbook~promo~1.asp Apple MacBook: $1,019.00
The Apple is cheaper over 3 or more years.
Kevin Smith on Prince
.....??? wasn't the long time available format C: enough???!
What does that do? Recursively force-delete a directory whose name is a single space?
Really, there are two scenarios for getting Vista:
a) New PC. Has at least 400Gbyte HD (ok, maybe 120 if its a laptop). 15Gbyte is a very minor fraction.
Windows 3.1 used a larger part of the 120Mbyte HD my first PC had.
b) You buy it, and pay $$$ for it: 15Gbyte right now is the equivalent of 3 bucks. Thats about 1% of what you payed for the OS. Neglectable.
I rather have the convinience of never having to touch the install medium again, _and_ shadow copies of system files, ect, than having a 99.5% instead of 98.5% empty hd.
HI O WISE PRINCE. WHT TOOK U SO DAM LONG?
As I point out here, AVG is not free if you use it outside the home, on a network, or in business. 4 years license for their AVG Internet Security (they sell it in 2-year increments, so 3 years means ypu have to pay for 4) is $140.00. $900.00 pc + $140.00 = $1,040.00
Also, I provided a like where you can get a MacBook for $1,019.
The mac is cheaper than the pc if you're going to keep it for more than 2 years, and you intend to network it (and who doesn't network their laptop) or you intend to use it outside the home (and who doesn't bring their laptop outside the home, and connect to wireless networks).
Kevin Smith on Prince
You might want to consider donating to the aforementioned makers of the software.
"All you have to do is be fragile and grateful. So stay the underdog." Chuck Palahniuk, Choke
Sure I did - look at the title: vista ultra-lite - rm /dev/sda1/*
That won't work in Windows, but it will work great on Windows :-)
Actually, "fdisk /dev/sda, d, 1, w, q" works even better.
We all know step 2 - reboot.
Kevin Smith on Prince
'rm' is not recognized as an internal or external command, operable program or batch file.
Yep, I might. On the other hand, when I'm trying to make a point about how tacking on extra costs for using Vista isn't exactly fair, how much I or anyone else chooses to donate isn't really pertinent. One might decide to donate cash to Debian, but we're still going to call the cost of using it $0.
I see your informative link, and raise you a pithy comment.
>
rm: missing operand
Try `rm --help' for more information.
Am I doin it rite?
Don't forget things such as ease of use and stability. If you waste your time fighting the tool or dealing with crashes, factor in how valuable your time is and multiply by the number of hours wasted. Also I perceive, rightly or wrongly, that apple hardware is of higher quality meaning less time on the phn to support (what a joke) and less in lost productivity.
putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
From the AVG free version license...
You can connect your AVG-protected computer to a LAN! You just can't use it to protect the entire LAN (e.g. on your firewall) or install it on more than one computer.
Of course that's entirely irrelevant because AVG is not the only free AV software around.
When was the last time a salesman told you the truth?
echo 'cat sig | sh' > sig
Maybe I'm just being Beltway-Bandit cynical, but good lord it sounds like you're talking about the gubmint. Let's change a few things:
Hmm, yep, that's about what I thought. Scary when MS really begins to resemble a government agency. Now how did *that* happen?
Cheers,
"What in the name of Fats Waller is that?"
"A four-foot prune."
it is amazing that today we still see Microsoft pulling up the dump truck and dropping a 'new' desktop OS on the market and that OS can not scale down. And what's worst, it takes someone in the population to start pulling it apart to product a lighter version. I mean holly crap, they are still pushing Windows XP on products to compete with Linux. You know, that Microsoft OS which originally shipped in something like 2001.
.Net.
So here Microsoft is, claiming to the world for almost 10 years that their company motto is Microsoft software on every DEVICE( changed from on every PC ) yet they design a new OS where the kernel and OS software can not scale down to even moderately powerful computers( ClassMate PC, OLPC XO, Eeee, etc ). Instead, the OS Microsoft is saying is out dated and insecure is the same OS they are pushing to fight GNU/Linux. And it is because their new OS is so poorly designed it won't run on these computers effectively.
More proof that Microsoft is a marketing company and not a technology company IMO. They probably wrote Vista in VisualBasic....wait for it....
LoB
"Anyone who stands out in the middle of a road looks like roadkill to me." --Linus
Even conceding your point about AVG*, there are other free antivirus programs out there. ClamAV, for example, is open source, gets updated as frequently as hourly, and is free as in beer as well as free as in speech. From my own experience, ClamAV actually has a better trap rate than Symantec AV.
* - Your point about AVG's licensing is incorrect, btw. Yes, you do need to buy the $40 license if you're running it on more than one computer. No, you do not need to buy the $140 license if you're connecting it to a network. That clause is talking about using it in a network scanning situation... running it on a mail server, file server, web server... something like that. Are you noticing a common thread? They don't care if you connect a computer running AVG Free to a network, they only care if you are using AVG to protect your network resources. It's well within their licensing terms to run the free version on your desktop PC and have some other antivirus solution on your server.
If you believe everything you read, you'd better not read. - Japanese proverb
As someone who was forced into a Vista laptop (work reimbursement)I will be getting this immediately. My employer required Vista, but was too cheap to shill out for a beefy system. I'd switch to Linux if my wife wasn't so resistant. This is a huge help.
Change your view. Change your VISTA!
"Teach a man to build a fire, and he's warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life."
Funny. This article appeared on the top of the Google News page. Now Slashdot has been slashdotted!
Try reading what you quoted. Maybe you need more coffee.
Last I looked, schools fall under that "any organization" exclusion. So does bringing your laptop to work - both the "any organization" and "commercial" exclusions.
Businesses, being for-profit organizations, fall within the "any organization" exclusion; that also means not being licensed to use it in restaurants in conjunction with their wifi, etc.
In other words, its for home use only, which is what I pointed out the license already said.
Kevin Smith on Prince
If they've said 15GB for Vista Ultimate install, then they're lying, being deliberately misleading or just trying to spread FUD.
/.
I've installed Ultimate many times, and it takes less than 8GB, including pagefile, hibernate file (or whatever it's called now), system restore information, etc.
Of course, I haven't read the article. This is
Of course, I think the whole thing's just stupid. Disk space is ridiculously cheap, and if you've got a computer powerful enough to run Vista properly, then the size of the base Vista install is rather irrelevant as you've also probably got lots of disk space too, IMHO. But of course people like to think they're special and elite, and superior. Go for it guys... I'll just stick with the default install and use the time I save not tweaking the system doing something better... like being away from the computer socialising.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
There is a huge difference between the kernel of an OS and the size thereof and any additional (and possibly bloat inducing) software that comes along with it.
...) comes preloaded with loads of useless crap as well, it's utterly horrible, especially if they use KDE :s
The fact that MS is taking the MinWin initiative for what is currently called Windows 7 doesn't at all mean that Microsoft is admitting that Vista probably is bloated to the extreme. Windows 7 will probably be more resource efficient kernel wise, but it will STILL come with all the other crap, I m sure.
Oh and before the Linux fanboys have another crack at Vista -> I like it, it runs well if you tune it with wonderful tools like vLite. And the last time I checked, your average consumer version of Linux (Suse, Fedora,
The people that write this kind of opinion peices really should do more research.
What I'd be interested in seeing is benchmarks for desktop and 3d performance. It's all very well saying "ooooh look at how much shit it removes!" if it has no actual impact on performance. Most of the things it appears this thing removes will have barely any impact on hard disc space, cpu cycles or memory usage - MSN Installer for instance; removing that will free up a couple of megabytes of hard-disc space at best.
Anyone got any useful benchmarks?
throw new NoSignatureException();
But does vLite remove:
Tilt Bits and AACS
I tried it, and it did such a thorough job of stripping down my system that my wallpaper of Pamela Anderson was replaced with a skeleton.
Strike while the irony is hot! -- The Freethinker
The licensing for the free version says you can't use it within any organization, including non-profits. That lets out connecting your laptop at work or at school. Sure, you can use it at home, or a friends' place, but that's about it.
Besides, like I pointed out, there are better solutions than spending $900.00 on a VistaME laptop. The MacBook, at $1,019.00, is cheaper in the long run, unless you value your time at $0.00.
Kevin Smith on Prince
When the local CompUSA was closing down they were selling very heavily discounted copies of Visa, I came back a few times to look around for bargains and the Visa copies just sat there, 50% off, 75% off, it didn't matter, nobody bought them.
Visa is a horrid operating system, I just hope whatever they release next isn't such a horrid mess, although by then I might even think of moving to a Mac.
Compaq and the rest of the big boys do not provide original install cds anymore. They are just cds of images of their custom installs with all the crap they provide. Actually, most of them do not provide any cd anymore. The image is on another partition and well anyway... what I'm asking is obivously is there any hope for these users?
Didn't Vista freeze OpenGL at something old-ass like 1.4?
Otherwise your argument holds much water.
So, a tool to remove "unwanted features" draws 50,000 pageviews of people asking for new features.
That's just wrong.
nonsig. unsig. desig.
While many enjoy (even 3) shiny objects, many don't wish to go back to the operating system, a browser, and a mail client using almost all available RAM and CPU time.
Less likely (planets aligning, blue moon, lightning striking twice in the same place) some people have had Vista forced on them by OEMs, don't want to spend another $100 for an XP disc and also equate downloading to theft; those impoverished, non-technical moral absolutists who just bought a shiny new machine. (They're everywhere, you know.)
I just read Slashdot for the articles.
First, they said that 95 was buggy and that 98 fixed them. Then, 98 was too unstable and XP was rock solid. Last year, XP was too old and Vista was new and shiny. Now, Vista is bloated and MinWin is lean.
Could perhaps Microsoft decide if their products are good or bad?
The one you haven't bought yet is good.The one you already paid for is bad.
You can't take the sky from me...
Except that a Vista-based laptop with the same hardware specs as the MacBook would cost $600, not $900....
And my laptop "just works". No hassle. No complaints. Running XP MCE 2005. And no paying half the price over again for the bragging rights of saying that I'm running a Mac.
I priced it out. You do the same. I'll give you the specs on my lappy and you go to Apple's site and see how much a system with the same hardware capabilities would cost. Then compare that to the $1500 I paid for it in October. And then tell me, with a straight face, that I should have bought a Mac.
Intel Core 2 Duo T5450 @ 1.66GHz
2GB DDR2 667MHz
120GB 7200RPM SATA HDD
onboard Intel HD Audio
Intel 8945J 802.11a/g WLAN
onboard Bluetooth module
256MB NVidia GeForce 8600M GT graphics, with S-Video and D-SUB 15-pin VGA out
15.4" TrueLife LCD, 1680x1050 resolution
8X DVD-RW
IEEE-1394a and USB 2.0 ports
9-cell 85watt-hour extended-life battery
If you actually go to check the Apple website, the first thing you're going to notice is that Apple doesn't actually make a laptop with anything approaching these specs. Their screens are smaller, and lower resolution. And, at least when I bought it, Apple didn't have any laptops with that graphics card. And if you check closely, you'll notice that the top end Apple MacBook is twice what I paid for my system, while having lower specs. Now tell me, with a straight face, that I should have bought a Mac.
If you believe everything you read, you'd better not read. - Japanese proverb
Actually, the article said that a standard installation of Windows XP (1.5GB) is an order of magnitude smaller than a standard installation of Vista (15GB). MinWin (.025GB) would be down by a few more orders of magnitude.
I think anyone with half a brain could understand that they're talking about using AVG from the network (remote scanning) and not using a computer which has AVG installed on it on a network.
It's a poorly written license, but any idiot would understand what it actually means.
Oh, but I see by your name that you were probably trolling. Blah. Here's some food for you.
Ah but if it is your own laptop doing personal non work related things then you are covered. It's saying that organisations cannot deploy AVG Free on their systems but if it is your own then you are ok. I would imagine that school work falls under personal/private work if not it's a stupid law. I'm almost certain you can use this in the UK on your own personal laptop doing personal, non-commercial work, in the US you might be raped in the ass, but I don't live there. (IANAL)
It's not about the network it's about who owns the laptop and the work done on it. If you use it for business work (you should be using your business owned laptop from your work anyway) then you are not covered.
You seem to think that just because you are on an unfamiliar network you can't use the software for 'PRIVATE' use. "AVG Anti-Virus Free Edition is for private, non-commercial, single computer use only."
It depends on what you are doing but if it is personal work then you are fine. As you are just using the network but not doing work for the company you are doing it for your own reasons (not commercial).
The any organisation blurb is for organisation owned machines not personally owned ones.
Stop trolling, you fail at life. Avast is also free, and doesn't have any clauses like that and in any case I am almost sure Grisoft wouldn't enforce that anyway. The Mac is never cheaper, just deal with it instead of trying to justify your ridiculous spending habits to other on slashdot. Sure, you might like OS X better (and that's OK, many do for legitimate reasons) but saying that a Mac is cheaper is bullshit, and everyone knows it. There are a ton of other free antivirus apps too, and you don't technically need one anyway if you're careful about what you download. I haven't gotten a virus in over 10 years of using Windows (since the 3.1 days). How about we factor in the cost of say, Norton for Mac then with your estimate since we're being so fair and balanced? That's $50/year so + $100 for two years, and your Macbook is more expensive again.
All your base are belong to Wii.
What uses that?
Anyway, whilst I'm no gentoo fan, I love debian and ubuntu. You can run openoffice.org on either and I challenge you to tell me what it is you use on MS Office that OO.o doesn't provide. You can probably run MSOffice under Wine anyway.
And as for games... Well the Orange box works as well under Ubuntu as it does on Vista. Load times are slightly quicker too.
What Adobe software were you talking about?
Adobe make a lot of software.
Windows has brow beaten you into thinking that you need crazy amounts of RAM for an OS when in fact thats just BS. I've got Linux happily running on a 128M machine and I don't think I've seen it thrash the drive yet even when using open office.
Any OS that needs 1 Gig of RAM to run properly is a bloated , badly written POS which should never have escaped from the lab.
They should productize that.
* 25 meg base OS install.
* Windows Updater (Application, not browser lock-in.)
* Windows Installer
* Latest DX for graphics
* Hardware support
* Compiler for programmers to keep them interested in the platform.
Seriously I think that would be a smaller footprint and provide a very nice OS. You can then download the free bells and whistles for your 4 gig monster through the updater or you could get Firefox and whatever.
~~ Behold the flying cow with a rail gun! ~~
Slighty off topic, but, MinWin, finally an idea I like from MS!
I love debian Linux, becuase you download a 74mb business card cd, and within 12 minutes you have a working bare-bones linux system, it wont do/run ANYTHING unless its told to. IF, and thats only IF I want a uber-clever super-pretty UI, i'll install KDE and Compiz using apt, nothing is easier.
Vista on the other hand is draped in layer upon layer of horrible, slow, UI. With a kernel so bloated, the OS feels like the Eclipse IDE used to. You have little or no choice in what you install, and if you're like me, who wants everything as small as possible to maximize space to develop in, its just not an option.
I want an OS which is lightweight, and that can be added to if needed, and MinWin sounds like its going to meet those criteria.
You feel sleepy. Close your eyes. The opinions stated above are yours. You cannot imagine why you ever felt otherwise.
Microsoft's own website says that Vista requires 15GB to install. The authors probably confused requirements to install (which includes temporary files automatically deleted post-installation) and final installation size.
http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/windowsvista/aa905075.aspx
Nothing official, but I hear that the MinWin idea was based a lot on the Singularity project. The link has some papers, and there is some really interesting ideas there in terms of fast process isolation, etc. Sure, a microkernel is nothing new, but there are new ways of making a microkernel.
You're a retard. You can license as many copies as you want (since they're free) and run them on 50 computers on your _home_ network. You just can't run one single copy on 50 machines on a home or other network. By your retard "logic" you couldn't even run it on a single home computer attached to the Internet, which is if course a network.
Time wasted installing, running, updating those tools, not even counting CPU cycles wasted on things that should not be necessary in the first place: I'd guess at least 250 (and that's if your time is cheap)
Every expression is true, for a given value of 'true'
Amazingly enough, it's all scriptable. They will run when you're not using the machine and they will automatically apply updates. Installing is generally pretty damn fast too.
I see your informative link, and raise you a pithy comment.
Everything except playing games, you mean. That's the only thing I use my XP computer for anyway, mostly I use my laptop for coding.
I see your informative link, and raise you a pithy comment.
- or -
2 years AVG Internet Security: $70
So, 3 years of AVG Internet security is another $140.00. - total is $1,040.00 Free as in Speech and Beer.
If there's a castle floating upside down in the sky, then there's a castle floating upside down in the sky.
Except your old V.90 dial-up modem or hardware graphics acceleration.
I don't know about his, but mine works fine. Dial-up for remote checking of servers (external US Robotics, not one of those crippled winmodems, sure), and graphics acceleration on my ATI Radeon Mobility X1400-based laptop. Spinny cube and everything.
Microsoft is to software what Budweiser is to beer.
Do you want Steve Ballmer to go broke?
When you buy Vista, you will hate it so bad that you will have to upgrade to msft's newest new-and-improved pos-os. Kah-Ching!
Msft always promises that nirvana is just one upgrade away. When msft's products disappoint, msft will say "next time for sure" and everybody will buy again.
More proof that Microsoft is a marketing company and not a technology company IMO.
That's funny. I met a PR person who works with Microsoft marketing. She said exactly the same thing-- Microsoft has all these tech people who build great products, but when they are in a workable (still unfinished) state, the marketers come in and start changing things around. She's seen some fan-fuckin'-tastic software in the early stages, yet when it gets released, it's almost unrecognizable, and generally a POS.
This from someone who relies on Microsoft's money (though not Microsoft Money).
Microsoft is to software what Budweiser is to beer.
And what does "MinWin" mean?
Can ".net" be relied upon? Can the media player be relied upon? How about a "vista gen" installer that uses live video and 3d compositing to assist the user...
Since vista is a demand paged OS, don't the "bloat" pieces stay on disc until they are actually needed? And if THAT is the case, why are they considered "bloat"?
Or, is vista somehow being considered for embedded roles (dsm-320, toshiba hd-a3, etc.). I would imagine it's very late for that party.
Sign me: Curious in Toronto.
Just another "Cubible(sic) Joe" 2 17 3061
Turn Vista into XP for free!, that sounds practical provided you didn't pay directly or indirectly for vista that is.
Copyright infringement is "piracy" in the same way DRM is "consumer rape"
Naah. It's a directory that's a single line-feed ;)
My blog. Good stuff (when I remember to update it). Read it.
98Lite anyone? They've also continued develop for later releases e.g; 2000 and XP, but no Vista.
In other news, everythign old is new again.
Were that I say, pancakes?
For someone that's interested in stripping windows to the bare bones, I would suggest to look at windows server 2008 core version. It's supposed to come out in February 27, but you can already download an iso image from the microsoft site and try it. P.S. I think that the difference between vista and windows server 2008 will be similar to that of between windows xp and windows server 2003. They're almost identical OSes. They use the same kernel. Just different default settings and software that is installed.
> Microsoft officials have themselves conceded that Vista is "bloated"
If'n only this had happened to previous Microsoft products so Microsoft would have known to catch it before releasing Vista.
Ahh, well. Live and learn, even a giant corp. like that.
(-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
3 years running AVG: $0
3 years running Ad-aware, Spybot, and CCleaner: $0
Ah, how the worm has turned. I guess the saying now should be "Windows is only cheaper if your time has no value." Or maybe "Windows is only cheaper if you love trying to explain the concepts behind ZoneAlarm to your mom every week." Or maybe "Windows is only cheaper if you love using Google to find out how to get rid of things that Ad-Aware and Spybot missed." (Yes, there are some.) Or "Windows is only cheaper if you have friends you trust who can tell you which anti-spyware programs are trustworthy in the first place."
Dear Slashdot: next time you want to mess with the site, add a rich-text editor for comments.
Not that you haven't already been fed plenty today, however you're being flat out pedantic with semantics.
Are you within the Starbucks corporation whenever you go for coffee? No. You are neither an employee nor shareholder, and derive no direct benefit from it's continued existence other than a place that you can go for coffee.
Even assuming i was employed at starbucks and used a personal laptop to browse the web during a break, this would not constitute a breach in the agreement as the usage was personal and in no way benefited the company.
By your logic I would be unable to connect to municipal wifi because it could be constituted as belonging to an organization, though I believe you agree that I could connect via a router an individual owned. We see where the access point you use is irrelevant, unless AVG has some underlying goal of getting everyone to connect through cable/DSL and not wifi. (You will concede that i can connect to the internet, otherwise AVGs auto-updates attempt to use a feature they themselves deem illegal)
It makes far more sense that AVG disallows organizations to use it because they typically use a package and this would be a revenue killer if they sold something that could be gotten for free with a few more clicks.
As to your last point, I'm running vista and I have to say I've spent more time replying to this post than I have maintaining anti-virus/spyware software, and I'd spend more time on a mac wondering why the apple key isn't in the same location as 'crtl' since it does the same thing 97% of the time. I'd be willing to bet most people on this site don't have too many problems with any operating system and viruses. You're welcome to like apple as much as you like, but hopefully you aren't that insecure about your secure operating system that you need to lie about the competition.
I am not an expert. If I am misled in something, please correct me.
I really wish ClamWin interfaced correctly with Windows Security Center, so that it would stop claiming that the antivirus software wasn't found.
"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
There are other free anti-virus products such as Avira and Avast - no biggie.
The Apple is cheaper over 3 or more years.
Yes, if you don't like playing that many games and don't want to run half of the applications you can run in Windows - or Linux.
Gentoo Linux - another day, another USE flag.
Meanwhile, Microsoft officials have themselves conceded that Vista is "bloated" and are developing the next version of Windows on a core called MinWin, which is smaller than Vista by an order of magnitude."
No, no, no, and no...
1) MinWin IS the Vista Kernel, just compiled without the kernel subsystem APIs and instead a simple HTTP server API for interaction.
2) Windows 7 will NOT be any different than Vista in terms of the kernel design, the kernel in Vista, just like in Windows 7 is already a very tight and well designed architecture. Go look up any writings on the NT hybrid kernel.
FYI - The HAL in Vista is still under 256K, and the main NT subsystem in a shipping copy of Vista is under 40mb. Vista doesn't get 'large' until you add in the subsystems (win32) and the 'dual' kernel compatibility architectures that allow Vista to run legacy XP drivers in an entirely different driver model/subsystem. This is why Vista can load XP drivers and work like XP or load Vista drivers and use the new features of Vista. This goes for everything from Video and Audio to the Printing subsystems. (ie Look up XPDM vs WDDM)
It is sad enough when crappy journalists don't get that the MinWin demonstration is just a compiled version of the KERNEL only of NT. I know kernels, hybrid, client/server kernel, and architecture stuff is way beyond Mary Jo at ZDNet, but for the love of truth or God, can not the freaking editors at SlashDot be smart enough to understand something as simple as a kernel or a layered OS design?
The Apple is cheaper over 3 or more years.
And how much does the anti-virus program cost on your Mac? Though Macs users haven't had to worry about virus the past few years thanks to their obscurity, it may be a bit much to assume you won't need anti-virus for the next three years.
And yet, what's the bet that Microsoft will still find some pressing need to make Internet Explorer a critically integrated part of MinWin?
All this talk about 'Slimming down Vista' is funny. I've got a brand new Gateway laptop 2 Core w/2 GB RAM and Vista 'Home Advanced' whatever that is. The boss says Vista stays, so Vista stays. But I tried Ubuntu Gutsy Gibbon as a live CD and guess what? It was FASTER than running Vista off the HARDDRIVE! I really love this machine, and would LOVE to put just about any flavor of Linux on it, or ReactOS when it is ready. It's already a minimal kernal, ready for a 'Windows Distro' to be built around it. It just felt soooo weird to say 'Windows Distro'.
When you want something built, come see me. If you want correct grammar and spelling, get a F*ing liberal arts student.
I'm kind of irritated at these "feature requests". Popularity usually means there are a lot of dumber people sticking their nose where it doesn't belong. nLite/vLite are fantastic tools, but they're not for the average MySpace-hacking suburban inbred. The last thing I would ever want is for Dino (the author) to give up because of the massive influx of cretins on the forums.
If there's one thing I've learned about "feature requests", 1% of them are brilliant, the other 99% come from people who are too illiterate or too young to RTFM. nLite is a mature piece of software whose purpose is well-defined and its execution is lithe and focused. If a potential user is unfulfilled by its functionality, it's quite likely that they are treading where they should not.
-Billco, Fnarg.com
Hopefully the next windows will be much much better than Vista, but as Microsoft are pulling XP from retail this year, I will have to be getting Vista for my new PC, hopefully there will be improvements, and i'll actually be able to play some older games otherwise i'll have to get an XP H.D too.
The holes in reality are coming The cake is a lie... The cake is a lie... The cake is a lie... The cake is a lie..
What's next? Linwin or Binwin?
I think your suggestions are a bit too long to pass the marketing department up there in Redmond.
;-)
Perhaps Mindows?
Then I think that if Linus has been a bit more patriotic back then and named his OS Finux then the Linux based Windows clone could have been named Findows (and later on FinSpire
Other bugs, like depending on the extension of a file to determine its type, rather than actually looking at the first few bytes (like a unix "magic" file), hiding the real extensions when there are multiple dots in the filename, and other "features" are just bad design.
Then there are users like me - linux, bsd, and (when I get a chance - thanks for the setup dvds, sun!) solaris.
I won't be needing an antivirus for the next 3 years.
Kevin Smith on Prince