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Scientology's Credibility Questioned Over Video Channel
stonyandcher writes to share that the Church of Scientology has come under fire for some items on their recently launched video channel. Most notably, claims have been leveled that dignitaries in one of their videos were faked and at least one of the people featured in the video is claiming their statements were taken out of context.
Bears' woodland sanitary habits
Pope's Nazi youth
Apple enthusiasts' devotion....
"Be light, stinging, insolent and melancholy"
Religious groups are well known for twisting the words of non-members to support the wacky claims. Some nut-case Christer fundies produced a movie that twisted the words of several well known Atheists.
What do you expect from groups that require that members first suspend disbelief and accept claims of 'eternal life'?
Blar.
did Scientology have credibility?
Besides among the easily duped?
Hail Eris, full of mischief...
E pluribus sanguinem
Do they have any cool vids of Xenu and the starships? Volcanoes? That could rival the Sci-Fi Channel.
thegodmovie.com - watch it
Prior to that screwup, they were a vast reservoir of credibility.
Anyone else smell the desperation?
In Soviet Russia jokes are formulaic and decidedly non-humorous.
I'm convinced that Tom Cruise is being faked as well. I mean, come on guy, you did Top Gun! Get some self respect.
for a cult which calls itself a religion.
Coming to a concert hall near you.
...CoS has already been busted (albeit not overly publicly) for releasing a video compilation of death threats, hate mail, etc, which had said death threats in higher res than their supposed 'original' posting on youtube. Suss as....
(can't be screwed finding cites right now, worked for 26 hours straight, and now i'm plain out of it... little help?)
You're doing it wrong.
I'd be more surprised if the site launched and everyone found out it was entirely on the up-and-up.
Weaselmancer
rediculous.
Didn't you know that back a few year is was changes to News for nerds. Stuff that matters and hidden agendas?
Where's my torch and pitchfork?
But why do people in general seem to care so much about Scientology?
"Thanks for all the money you paid to us. We've used it to buy off ISO among other things" -Microsoft
You say the Scientologists are lying by twisting words. I say all religions are lying when they sell their made-up crap as 'the truth'.
;)
Christian organizations don't have to abuse the courts, their lies are supported by the justice system. Try suing a church for lying about eternal life and miracles and the other absurd claims they make. Many local churches use social pressure, especially in small towns, to force people to comply or at least not to speak out against the bullshit.
I'm an atheist, by the way, so I'm sure you're hate me even more!
Blar.
Sounds to me like the Co$ is actually improving in their policies!
Compared to Operation Freakout or Operation Snow White faking a few dignitaries is extremely mild.
If you haven't heard about those operations by the Church of Scientology then they are well worth a read. Pretty scary stuff actually.
Don't we already know that Scientology is fake?
Actually, running a lying, fraudulent televangelist network is really proof that Scientology is a "real" religion.
Its lack of overall credibility also makes the grade. What good is a religion whose assertions about imaginary creatures and their absolute control of the universe (and beyond) can be tested at all, let alone questioned, let alone credibly proven? That's what we have Apple for.
Next I'll be hearing that some Italian in a beanie and a dress believes in miracles, to the delight of billions of people on TV and in person.
--
make install -not war
Seriously, if there is *anyone* here criticizing Scientology, but believing the quaran or the bible, you are hypocrites.
Scientology is no more ridiculous than christianity, islam, or judaism. OK, spaceships that look like DC3s, OK, that's weird, but no more so than virgin births, 5000 year old flat earth, talking snakes, noah's ark, or killing your first born.
Scientology shows questionable credibility? Get right out of town!
For an organisation that thinks we're all possessed by dead aliens using the ramblings of a drug addled hack who freely admitted he was in it for the money as the gospel, you can colour me shocked that they might have a somewhat warped view of the rest of the universe.
Moderation Total: -1 Troll, +3 Goat
I usually don't bother questioning the credibility of anyone who's sanity I have questions about. It seems like a waste of time.
are exercises in faith.
Sincerely,
Kilgore Trout, Theologist
And I promise you, everything scientologists say is complete bullshit designed to dupe people who are desperate for some form of belonging, and then take their money.
FOXTROT UNIFORM CHARLIE KILO
Be warned. I have recorded all your names. Thou art but Thetans on the sleeve of humanity. Praise Xenu... and retain decent counsel.
I think it rather self-evident that this church will burn baby burn. They're not needing any help at all from the rest of us. They're doing quite well on their own! Just sit back, grab some marshmellows and get ready to roast!!
All content in this message is copyright (c) 2008. All rights reserved. RIAA is prohibited here.
Hurry to read this thread.
Scientology's layers are already preparing a Cease and Desist letter based on DMAC and other weapons to shut down Slashdot's post.
The world belongs to those who get up early. - I'm far from being the king of Earth then
I don't give a fuck if you believe in Xenu or Jesus or the Flying Spaghetti Monster, but the Church Scientology lies to and steals from it's 'believers', and does horrible psychological damages to people and their familes. No mainstream religion is remotely as corrupt and sadistic.
Please read for a start:
http://www.exscientologykids.com/
"I only speak the truth"
Karma: null(Mostly affected by an unassigned variable)
Why isn't the submitter Anonymous?
How dare you be so modest!! You conceited bastard!!
We are the volcano Co$. You will pay for the crimes you have committed, just like your little thetan buddies. You think the first volcano was bad? Just wait. You are child killers and criminals who hide behind your little tax shelter. People are learning about Operation Snow White. People are learning about the claims that L Ron made - things like, "The easiest way to make a million dollars is to start a religion." People are learning about the women and children you have denied even basic medical care and left to be eaten by cockroaches. You will pay.
Anything but a Troll...
I'm going to have to go find a new religion to join now, I had o so much faith invested into Scientology.
I don't believe you, I'm here for a seat on the secret spaceship.
watching the videos over and over and over from many different internet connections...
link
Newsflash - you are not important. Slashdot was not designed to serve you. You are not paying for it. Yet you still take time to complain. Weird, uh?
And if you're that keen on only seeing specific articles - there's a billion filters you can apply. Might want to use the full site. Or are you not nerd enough to figure out filter settings?
Those who can, do. Those who can't, sue.
Exactly.
But that is the most difficult concept to get through the head of any "religious" person. Which leads to congregations defending child molesting priests.
Church lies and takes quotes out of context to try to bolster its claims. News at 11...
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
"Written historical account". Given that pagan by definition means "of the country.", and in those times most people were illiterate, does it really surprise you that there was little written record to contradict what the Christians wrote? It's not like they have ever burned books or anything, either.
As a more direct rebuttal specifically to the Osiris resurrection thing, that was written in hieroglyphs. How else would we have known about it? It's not like there have been any native Egyptian speakers for a long, long time, so we had to learn about ancient Egypt through other methods.
But hey, why let the facts stand in the way of your chosen God, right? He's infallible, and if anyone that believes in him says anything about him, it must be true!
My blog. Good stuff (when I remember to update it). Read it.
I lol'd a Jonestown, Waco, and all the others.
Well all those cults like to hole up in their little compound off out of our way.
This cult likes to convert celebrities and use them to evangelize their cult, spread itself across the country, and litigate anyone who tries to slow their acquisition of money.
Basically, Scientology has a much greater chance of affecting me or someone I know than any of those other cults. Mainly because those other cults were actually "cults" run by some crazy messiah-delusion leader, while Scientology is a deliberate scheme for accruing vast amounts of wealth and power in the guise of a cult.
The enemies of Democracy are
The fact is that none of these pagan religion concepts existed before 100AD. There is no written historical account for these concepts before this time (such as mithras was born of a virgin, or osiris was ressurected). All pagan religions reference these concepts in written history after the birth of Christ.
They were talking about the sacrament of communion as far back as 2500 BC: (from Wikipedia)
Since the ancient Nilotics believed that humans were whatever they eat, this sacrament was, by extension, able to make them celestial and immortal. The doctrine of the eucharist ultimately has its roots in prehistoric (symbolic) cannibalism, whose practitioners believed that the virtues and powers of the eaten would thus be absorbed by the eater. This phenomenon has been described throughout the world. One of the oldest of the Pyramid Texts is the Unas[14] from the 6th Dynasty (circa 2500 BC). It shows that the original ideology of Egypt commingled with Osirian concepts. Although ultimately given a high place in heaven by order of Osiris, Unas is at first an enemy of the gods and his ancestors, whom he hunts, lassoes, kills, cooks, and eats so that their powers may become his own. This was written at a time when the eating of parents and gods was a laudable ceremony, and this emphasizes how hard it must have been to stamp out the older order of cannibalism. "He eats men, he feeds on the gods...he cooks them in his fiery cauldrons. He eats their words of power, he swallows their spirits.... He eats the wisdom of every god, his period of life is eternity.... Their soul is in his body, their spirits are within him." A parallel passage is found in the Pyramid Text of Pepi II, who is said to have "seizeth those who are a follower of Set...he breaketh their heads, he cutteth off their haunches, he teareth out their intestines, he diggeth out their hearts, he drinketh copiously of their blood!" (line 531, ff). Although crude, this was a core concept, the conviction that one could receive immortality by eating the flesh and blood of a god who had died
I think Gypsies are offended by being mentioned in the same topic as Scientologists, you insensitive clod!
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
"recently launched video channel"
I can see it now. 24 hours of John Travolta, Kristy Allie, and Tom Cruise movies....
Sounds like a winner!
Oops, forgot the link: Osiris
Some things for you to consider:
The concept of resurrection is at least as old as writing. Does this automatically mean the account of Jesus being resurrected is copied from those fables?
Few writings from the past contradicting Christianity exist. Does this mean that any surviving writings are automatically true?
There was a mystery cult that existed around the same time as early Christianity that has many similarities to Christianity. Does this mean that Christianity copied Mithraism, or Mithraism copied Christianity?
Christians have, in the past, destroyed information that they found distasteful or contradictory to their beliefs. Does this automatically invalidate their beliefs, or does it just mean there have been assholes in the Christian faith? (Law of the Universal Distribution of Assholes)
I don't know about you, but my servers run on the power of cotton candy and happy thoughts. -Anonymous Coward
There must be some reverse psychology going on here! Everyone, mod me down!
I put the 't' in electrical engineering.
Scientology and the Internet explains the history.
In brief:
- attacks on USENET involving forged rmgroups in 1995.
- attacks on USENET involving Hipcrime-style spam for many years since then.
- legal attacks that resulted in the compromise of every user of the anon.penet.fi anonymous remailer in 1996.
- Angry about copyright term extensions? What we jokingly refer to as the 1998 Mickey Mouse Protection Act was passed into law as the Sonny Bono Copyright Term Extension Act. By a staggering coincidence, Sonny Bono was a Scilon.
- Angry about the DMCA? The Mickey Moust Protection Act wasn't enough of a legal club, and guess who was one of the first organizations to use it in mid-1999?
- And guess who was behind the DMCA attacks against Google in 2002.
- And last but not least, guess who was behind the DMCA attack against Slashdot itself in 2001.
Sorry you haven't been paying attention for the past decade, dude, but this is news for nerds, and it is stuff that matters.
I, for one, welcome our new mushroom overlords. http://www.churchofmyconology.com/
They get mad in the face of directy historical evidence.
If the lowly deciples of Jesus could read and write, (who were often poor and uneducated) why could'nt other religions write about these practices before his time? Are these pagan religions that stupid and uneducated not to be able to write about these concepts in recorded history before 100AD or were they just "illiterate" up until 100AD? How convenient of a rebuttal.
To further prove your ignorance of history, the osiris "resurrection thing" was NOT a ressurection, as you have no idea of Osiris and the history of his death, and I'll quote:
"The most popular account says Osiris's brother killed him, chopped him into fourteen pieces and scattered tthem around the world. Well, the goddess Isis feels compassion for Osiris, so she looks for this 14 body parts but only finds 13 of them. She then puts them back together and Osiris is buried. Be he does'nt come back to this world; he is given status of God of the netherworld- A gloomy, shadowy place of semi-consciousness."
This is'nt a ressurection of Osiris, he does not rise to an eqyption God or sits in any glory.
Your argument presents no new historical facts and is baseless.
the sound you just heard was the illusions of WWE fans everywhere
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
Has Tom Cruise ever appeared side-by-side with David Duchovny?
100 - 5,000 years : Genuine theology that reflects the true nature of being and the foundation of our civilization Are you saying 100-5,000 so that you can include Mormans as a genuine theology, and not a cult? Because the thread you replied to would have thrown Mormans into a cult. (I think he said anyone who still knows the founder. With Mormans, you can at least claim a grandchild or great grandchild of the founder)
I have never heard of a real religion that gets upset when anybody exposes the beliefs of that religion.
Includes screenshots & research. http://forums.enturbulation.org/showthread.php?t=5085&page=4
For example they claim in that movie that Christianity copied belifes from other pagan religion such as the ressurection, virginal birth, baptism and other ideas..
The fact is that none of these pagan religion concepts existed before 100AD. There is no written historical account for these concepts before this time (such as mithras was born of a virgin, or osiris was ressurected). All pagan religions reference these concepts in written history after the birth of Christ.
Go a read Lee Strobels "The case for the real Jesus" chapter 4 for further clarification, and yes even atheists twist the historical truth for their own agenda.
Resurrection certainly wasn't invented by Christianity. Elijah resurrected people without a huge amount of fanfare.
Scientology is no more ridiculous than christianity, islam, or judaism. OK, spaceships that look like DC3s, OK, that's weird, but no more so than virgin births, 5000 year old flat earth, talking snakes, noah's ark, or killing your first born.
Huh. This got modded to 3, as interesting? So much for the wisdom of crowds.
Criticizing religion in the 20th and 21st century is easy when you are able single out individuals and groups who accept scriptural texts as fundamental truths about matters of empirical fact. Of all the items mentioned, only the virgin birth and Abraham's willingness to sacrifice Isaac are widely accepted by modern practitioners of Christianity (and, incidentally, Islam) as a literal truths and not parables.
What Scientology lacks, and the historical obscurantism and prejudice of this post belie, is the long-standing relationship between Judeo-Christian and Islamic traditions and Western codes of ethics and law. This connection is best summarized by Jurgen Habermas:
"Christianity has functioned for the normative self-understanding of modernity as more than a mere precursor or a catalyst. Egalitarian universalism, from which sprang the ideas of freedom and social solidarity, of an autonomous conduct of life and emancipation, of the individual morality of conscience, human rights, and democracy, is the direct heir to the Judaic ethic of justice and the Christian ethic of love. This legacy, substantially unchanged, has been the object of continual critical appropriation and reinterpretation. To this day, there is no alternative to it. And in the light of the current challenges of a postnational constellation, we continue to draw on the substance of this heritage. Everything else is just idle postmodern talk.
- "Conversation about God and the World." Time of transitions. Cambridge: Polity Press 2006, p. 150-151"
The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool. -Richard Feynman
What about Bler'te'thag'ism?
That people on the planet V'wac'tev'trw had a damn messiah and we are not worshipping it yet!!! Dammit we need to as Preg'a'terg is the only one true god!!!
Tsukasa: All I really want, is to be left alone...
If you think the "church" is evil as well. check out Operation Reconnect.
You can also find out why we protest.
It's better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.
- E. Debs
Scientologists always tell you, if you want to know anything go straight to the source, so wikileaks has a copy of theirs that the freezoners pulled together from their collections of OT documents when they left the 'Church'.
Firehose story with more details : http://slashdot.org/firehose.pl?op=view&id=591182
http://wikileaks.org/wiki/Church_of_Scientology_collected_Operating_Thetan_documents
And just for fun, here's a story on the Church of Scientology trying to make hyperlinks to copyright documents illegal, they lost the court battle : http://www.news.com/Scientology-loss-keeps-hyperlinks-legal/2100-1028_3-5072581.html?tag=txt.1
(Funny they never go to the real source of information when it comes to Psychiatry, they only go to the 'Church' when it comes to that)
Dude, come on.
Luke 22:17 "And when He had taken a cup and given thanks, He said, "Take this and share it among yourselves;"
And the full verse of which you're only quoting half.
Luke 22:20 "And in the same way He took the cup after they had eaten, saying, "This cup which is poured out for you is the new covenant in My blood."
So first he does tell them to drink it (ie share it among yourselves) and then he tells them that it is his blood.
Now, I'm not saying I agree with the parent post. Even the Jews of the time thought Jesus was referring to cannibalism , which he clearly wasn't. It had nothing to do with gaining Christ's knowledge and becoming immortal. That was to come anyway as long as they accepted him. But please, don't try to say that the bread and wine weren't his body and blood when that's exactly what he said.
Remember how "Jump the shark" became the catch-phrase for when a TV show hit its low? Well now we have a new term for when a TV show goes too far 'out there'. It's called "jump the couch" and is a reference to when Tom Cruise went too far 'out there' on The Opera Show and jumped on the couch. This usually happens when the writers just can't come up with new believable material.
With little surprise, it sounds like the Scientology channel was quick to "jump the couch". IMO.
LoB
"Anyone who stands out in the middle of a road looks like roadkill to me." --Linus
I am an atheist who will defend anyone's right to believe in whatever religion they want to. I try not to impose my beliefs onto others. I really do. That being said, it is my belief that this organization is NOT a religion. I watched Tom Cruise say on national television that you can be a Christian, a Bhuddist, a Muslim or a Jew and be a Scientologist. From my perspective, that is not the definition of a religion. At best it is an expensive Hollywood social club. At worst, it exploits those people looking to hand over some cash to belong to the type of dream Mr. Cruise represents. To put it bluntly, those fucks should have their tax-exempt status taken away. That is all their classification as a religion is. An economic convenience.
Since when have cults had any credibility to start with?
They believe in curves, too.
"National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
The news sites are claiming that the Scientology Video Channel launched simultaneously on their website AND on YouTube. But I can't find the YouTube version.
Anyone find the URL?
VOTE!
That's like saying that the catholic church doesn't matter, just because they're imbeciles. A lot of imbeciles in a big group can influence many things.
Here's a nutty conspiracy theory for you:
Scientology was clandestinely created by psychiatrists so as to make their field of study less looney-looking and to redirect criticism away from the profession.
In fact wasn't one of Christ's sins preforming miracles on the sabbath?
Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
You hit the nail on the head. Authenticity does not equal veracity. However, it is a prerequisite. Anabaptists claimed that their religion is the one started by the apostles. Catholicism claims the same thing - however, evidence discredits Anabaptism in favor of Catholicism.
analysis over historical records regarding the New Testament can only confirm us that the words in them were actually what the man called Jesus said - and not an invention made by a group of fanboys. But from that to affirming that Jesus is the son of God, that is up to the believer.
In other words, we cannot confirm that religion is true based only on ancient manuscripts - however, we CAN confirm that a religion is NOT true based on ancient manuscripts, if they disprove what the religion claims.
In the particular case of Scientology, physical evidence disproves Scientology's numerous claims - starting with the e-meter.
Hey you're not that fat chick from The View are you? She thinks that nothing predates Christianity too.
LK
"Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
Those celebrities are cultivated PR cases, basically advertising for the cult. For what can and does happen inside their bases, go take a look at what happened at www.lisamcpherson.org. They watched Lisa die for 2 weeks and kept her locked up, even tied up. And it's clear from their own literature that they considered Hubbard a messianic figure.
They had a credibility that can be questioned. I never thought they did. Does TFA elaborate on that part?
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
"Islam has no official policy about one's being fair game for converting from Islam. If the Koran states such a policy, please cite it"
So Islam's "official" policies all come from the Koran? Not sharia? Or the immams or any other part of the complex religion?
Definitely a twentieth century man. From our favorite source of reliable information about controversial figures: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ron_hubbard
L. Ron Hubbard
Born March 13, 1911, Tilden, Nebraska
Died January 24, 1986 (aged 74), San Luis Obispo County, California
Occupation Speculative fiction Author, Founder Scientology
Net worth > $200,000,000 in 1982
...so this is on topic.
I'm just a level higher than you. To me all religions are bunk, so who cares if Scientology uses slightly more odious tactics in it's attempt (along side Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Hinduism and all the rest) to sell it's made-up hocus-pocus bullshit as the absolute truth.
I mean really...you're stuck in the recent century. Have Scientologists ever tortured and murdered nobelievers? Nope! So some lies on YouTube, that any rational and intelligent person could see through, are a non-issue.
Blar.
Wow. Who knew /. was moderated by gypsies? O_O
~ I am logged on, therefore I am.
You're the one claiming the Koran is the only source of rules in Islam.
My source is every would be apostate I've ever met, and that's a few now. They are now non-practicing muslims because apostasy carries a death sentence in some interpretations of the religion. These are people living in western countries that still occasionally like to go and visit family in Iran or Pakistan.