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Apple, New York City In Legal Dispute Over Logo

Lemmy Caution writes "Apple, Inc. has filed a suit to prevent New York City's non-profit 'GreeNYC' initiative from using a logo that incorporates an apple in its design. Commentators have noted the substantial differences between the two designs, not to mention the irony of this sort of infringement claim. The city of New York has filed to have the claim rejected, and even possibly the cancellation of Apple's logo in light of the long history of the nickname 'The Big Apple' to describe the city."

254 comments

  1. The What Apple? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "We believe the 'infinity apple' design and its mission to create environmental awareness are unique and distinctive and do not infringe upon the Apple computer brand," said Kimberly Spell of NYC & Company on Thursday. The "infinity apple?" What is this, some sort of lame Marvel comics crossover event?
    1. Re:The What Apple? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's symbolic for recycling, dork.

    2. Re:The What Apple? by socsoc · · Score: 1

      It's similar to Dunder Mifflin Infinity, but apples instead of paper.

  2. I REALLY hope Apple wins... by Cedric+Tsui · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I REALLY hope Apple wins and NYC's logo is thrown out.
    There's no one better suited to start rolling back absurd property rights than a city full of pissed off politicians.

    1. Re:I REALLY hope Apple wins... by peragrin · · Score: 4, Insightful

      actually I hope it goes the over way. Apple needs to be shown that not every apple is their's.

      The two logo's don't look anything like each other. NYC's is missing the giant bite for starters.

      --
      i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
    2. Re:I REALLY hope Apple wins... by k2enemy · · Score: 5, Informative

      I think you may have misunderstood the parent. Of course Apple's claim is ridiculous, but with the current state of intellectual property law, Apple has a possibility of winning. This by itself would be BAD, but it may prompt politicians to do something about reforming IP law.

    3. Re:I REALLY hope Apple wins... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      This is a perfect test for trademark fair use. This is what it was designed for. Nobody owns the image of an apple and it is absurd for Apple Computer to claim that. I'm surprised that Apple Computer is continuing on this course. Their opponent is an environmental organization. This will not look good to their customer base.

    4. Re:I REALLY hope Apple wins... by Walzmyn · · Score: 1

      Does anybody know why the *GREEN* NYC logo is not... err... green?

    5. Re:I REALLY hope Apple wins... by mattgoldey · · Score: 5, Funny

      Damn, dude. An apostrophe doesn't mean "Look out, here comes an S!"

    6. Re:I REALLY hope Apple wins... by Aglassis · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Does anybody know why the *GREEN* NYC logo is not... err... green? So it will go with the black background on the web site. Though technically, due to the infinity symbol, it should be blue.
      --
      Suddenly, the hairy finger of a familiar monkey tapped me on the shoulder. It was time.--G. T.
    7. Re:I REALLY hope Apple wins... by tubapro12 · · Score: 3, Funny

      I call no ability for IP on the apple design, prior art by ID designer.

    8. Re:I REALLY hope Apple wins... by omega_dk · · Score: 5, Informative

      Well, that might be true... if there were a lawsuit involved at all.

      Hey /.! How about posting about 'filing suit' when it actually happens, and not when someone lacks basic reading comprehension? Not even in TFA does it mention a legal dispute; it says it filed a challenge to NYC's trademark application.

      I believe this article needs to be tagged 'adaylateandadollarshort'

      --
      Just because you don't like the truth, does not make it false.
    9. Re:I REALLY hope Apple wins... by discontinuity · · Score: 1

      but it may prompt politicians to do something about reforming IP law.

      Maybe that would happen if Apple had sued a federal agency or something. There's not too much NYC can do about national IP law (directly, at least).

      I really like the idea of a counter suit on the basis that Apple stole the apple from NYC first.

    10. Re:I REALLY hope Apple wins... by Vectronic · · Score: 1

      Which should be the case, unquestionably...

      However, "this day and age" I could actually see it sticking, and having New York sponsered by Apple...

      iLoveNY

      It'l start somewhere... then comes MicroSeattle... Texas becomes Tuxas... Florida...Fluoridation... Sponsered by Colgate... Birmingham... BMGham... its "unconquered territory"... someones gonna try it eventually...

    11. Re:I REALLY hope Apple wins... by digitig · · Score: 1

      Apple needs to be shown that not every apple is their's. Maybe there's really just one apple in this case -- and it has "Kallisti" written on it.
      --
      Quidnam Latine loqui modo coepi?
    12. Re:I REALLY hope Apple wins... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Does that mean that the Beatles' Apple Corps, Ltd. can sue the computer company?

    13. Re:I REALLY hope Apple wins... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I agree. The difference between the two logos are much greater than ... say ... the old Macintosh logo and this orthodontists' rip.

      *cues apple lawyers*

    14. Re:I REALLY hope Apple wins... by Whiney+Mac+Fanboy · · Score: 1

      There's no one better suited to start rolling back absurd property rights than a city full of pissed off politicians.

      New York city politicians cannot do anything about federal trademark laws. In light of that, who do you think should win?

      I hope Apple NYC ups the ante, files their own complaint & get's Apple's trademark rescinded. Might* teach them to not be so trigger happy with the legal threats.

      * Let's face it - probably not.

      --
      There are shills on slashdot. Apparently, I'm one of them.
    15. Re:I REALLY hope Apple wins... by Mr.+Slippery · · Score: 2, Funny

      Maybe there's really just one apple in this case -- and it has "Kallisti" written on it.

      Fnord. I say the trademark goes to the prettiest one.

      --
      Tom Swiss | the infamous tms | my blog
      You cannot wash away blood with blood
    16. Re:I REALLY hope Apple wins... by tomhudson · · Score: 1

      The two logo's don't look anything like each other. NYC's is missing the giant bite for starters.

      They should redo the logo and take a chunk out of it, and say its in memory of the World Trade Center and its' victims.

      I think Apple laid a lemon on this one.

    17. Re:I REALLY hope Apple wins... by Typoboy · · Score: 1

      half.com, OR anyone?

    18. Re:I REALLY hope Apple wins... by realmadpuppy · · Score: 1

      Funny, I hope that NYC crushes that arrogant, SOB of a company. NYC has been The Big Apple way before that prick company from Cupertino was a glimmer in Jobs and Wozniak's eyes. Holy Shit, I'm confused? Am I in NYC or did I just buy a Mac? what a bunch of jerk-offs.

    19. Re:I REALLY hope Apple wins... by amRadioHed · · Score: 2, Funny

      Are you 'sure it doe'sn't?

      --
      We hope your rules and wisdom choke you / Now we are one in everlasting peace
    20. Re:I REALLY hope Apple wins... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Apple has to vigorously defend its trademark or lose it. There is no choice in the arena of trademarks. Basically, a judge needs to conclude the marks won't cause confusion in the marketplace so that someone else cannot come along and claim Apple (or New York) did not defend its marks right. Such a successful claim for could cause huge problems for either of them.

    21. Re:I REALLY hope Apple wins... by sjames · · Score: 2, Interesting

      actually I hope it goes the over way. Apple needs to be shown that not every apple is their's.

      Good luck with that. Apple records tried to teach them that TWICE. First, Apple chose it's name and the mark even though Apple records was hardly unknown at the time. Then after wrangling in court, the two apples agreed they would stay out of each other's markets and businesses and all would be good.

      Then Apple computers started distributing music... Apple records once again tried to show them that there are limits to their use of the apple logo.

      Now they go after one of the best known cities in the world that has been the "Big Apple", complete with apple imagry since before anyone at Apple computers was born.

      I suppose next they'll try to sue an orchard.

    22. Re:I REALLY hope Apple wins... by TapeCutter · · Score: 1

      It's been said that the bite is a tribute to Alan Turing (who died from eating a poisioned apple), so I assume that Apple would claim the "in memory off" thing too. /ip_hyperbole

      Considering the trademark fights Apple computer has had with Apple records you would think Apple computer would just STFU about it's logo. OTOH: Any publicity is good...blah, blah, therefore I suspect it's a marketing ploy or a conspirasy (same thing really)...

      1. Hear about NYC cheating by copying Apple's logo - raisng recognition of both.
      2. See some resemblance in the logos and think "maybe, who cares?".
      3. Sub-consious msg="creative people love Apple's stuff" takes root.
      4. Traditionally the last step would be "Profit!" but the accountants told me hijacking each other's logo is an intangible.

      --
      And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
    23. Re:I REALLY hope Apple wins... by tomhudson · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It's been said that the bite is a tribute to Alan Turing (who died from eating a poisioned apple),

      So *that's* where the whole "Apple is teh gay" thing got started ...

      The treatment of Turing is a shame - he arguably saved more lives than anyone else in WW2.

    24. Re:I REALLY hope Apple wins... by Original+Replica · · Score: 1

      I think that Apple would fight harder than NYC for the rights to the logo, unless Bloomberg decides to make it his current crusade. (which he won't until he get congestion pricing passed) NYC would just use the Statue of Liberty or something as an alternate logo, but Apple computers would have no other option than to fight tooth and nail for the apple logo. I too would like to see this get huge and ugly as a mean of forcing a hard look at IP law I just think that Apple would fight harder for it.

      --
      We are all just people.
    25. Re:I REALLY hope Apple wins... by hedwards · · Score: 1

      Yes and no, mostly no. Apple should really be keeping its collective mouth shut over this one. Basically a generic term such as Apple or Pear or book is not supposed to be eligible for trademark protection. Apple computers was eligible because it wasn't a generic, it was unique to the company.

      That has since changed, they got into the music business, dropped the computers from the name and subsequently got sued by Apple corps., for trademark infringement. And rightly so, while Apple computers wasn't likely to cause confusion, an additional Apple in the music business would likely lead to confusion and trademark dilution.

      In this case, the marks look nothing a like, they only bear a resemblance because they both are designed based upon an apple, but Apple would have a hard time winning the case should they choose to file it for a couple of reasons.

      Firstly NYC had apple first, they've been the "Big Apple" for longer than Apple, or its founders, have been around.
      Secondly, it's an apple, trademark law is designed so that things like that can't be used to cut off the public from wide swathes of tradition, culture and language. Which is why so many stores have misspelled names.

      In this case they really aren't required to do most of this, at most they're required to send a letter indicating that this is our mark, stay out of the technology business with it.

      But then again IANAL.

    26. Re:I REALLY hope Apple wins... by Lemmy+Caution · · Score: 3, Informative
      As the original submitter, I used the word "suit" when I should have used the word "claim." Otherwise, however, I think you incorrectly minimalize the effectively litigious and serious nature of a trademark opposition:

      The owner of the pending application is given a copy of the claim, termed a âoenotice of oppositionâ. The applicant is given thirty days to file an answer, If no answer is filed, the application is dismissed. Therefore receipt of an opposition notice must be taken seriously.

      The opposition procedure is similar to civil litigation. There is first a discovery period. The time period for discovery is set by the TTAB. The deadlines may be extended on written request. The discovery comprises depositions, interrogatories, production of records, and request for admissions. These are the typical tools used in civil litigation.

        The TTAB has specific rules governing the conduct of an opposition, including the discovery phase. Similar to civil litigation, motions can be filed addressing alleged failure of one party or the other to comply with the TTAB rules of procedure.

        What is unlike civil litigation, is the use of testimonial depositions, which are separate from discovery depositions. The TTAB does not conduct open or oral hearings. All matters are resolved by written record.

      It is somewhat misleading to think this is just a casual "business as usual" action on the part of Apple. It is as serious as a regular lawsuit, will involve similar legal mobilizations, and ultimately will determine whether or not GreeNYC can trademark (and use) their logo.
    27. Re:I REALLY hope Apple wins... by DECS · · Score: 1

      Apple isn't arguing that NYC can't use the term Big Apple. The suit is about a new ad campaign that uses an apple logo with a swirl. It does not look much like Apple's logo, but if Apple didn't work to defend its logos and trademarks vigorously, it could lose them, perhaps not Apple, but others.

      If it never said anything about the NYC apple, then what about a about a company that recycled computers with a similar iconic apple logo? What about a company making Applee iPodds?

      I agree with an early poster: Apple winning the seemingly frivolous action might generate enough attention to reform the rather insane IP laws in general.

      Filling the Unlocked iPhone Gap with .Mac

    28. Re:I REALLY hope Apple wins... by DECS · · Score: 1

      I think the bite in the Apple logo has been pointed out to be a play on a computer byte. I can't imagine Apple would do a tribute to Turing's death by linking the company's logo to the cause of death. That would be creepy.

      That said, linking the idea of Apple products to thousands of banners around NYC advertising green efforts to recycle would be a marketing coup.

    29. Re:I REALLY hope Apple wins... by DECS · · Score: 0

      Wrong. The Beetles' Apple Corps wasn't any more related to Apple Computer's business than the Apple One temp agency or thousands of other businesses using the word apple.

      Apple Corps went after Apple once it began making computers with music playback, hardly any infringement upon that label's business. That went back and forth for years, long before Apple began selling music in iTunes.

      And Apple isn't going after NYC's slogan here, they're going after a new ad campaign with a new apple logo in the same 2D perspective. It's not an intentional rip off, but how many iconic 2D apple logo outlines can there be?

      The Apple Corps used a photographic apple logo with proportions very different than Apple's iconic 2D apple outline logo. The NYC campaign looks like Apple's logo with a swoosh instead of a bite. Not exactly entirely frivolous, even if it is a worrisome sign of a world gone litigation nuts.

    30. Re:I REALLY hope Apple wins... by ktappe · · Score: 1

      Not true. There are no damages or awards to either side regardless of the outcome. Further, it is rather insulting of you to decry Apple for making use of a normal procedure set forth by law and which is in place for a very good reason. Will you next claim it is a "big deal" when someone contests a traffic ticket in court? After all, it's a "court proceeding" which involves a judge and an official record. How dare they exercise their rights? What we have here is a non-story that only gained notoriety because of the many Apple-haters about. And it, ironically, proves their existence by its persistence and prevalence across so many sites and blogs today.

      --
      "We can categorically state we have not released man-eating badgers into the area." - UK military spokesman, July 2007
    31. Re:I REALLY hope Apple wins... by DECS · · Score: 1

      WMF: I'll type this slowly for you:

      The concept is that politically powerful people who live in NYC could be induced to start taking action on the issue of IP because of this tempest in a teapot.

      NYC's own politicians are probably too busy with shit to care about another minor issue from some legal challenge.

      You try so hard to malign Apple that it hurts. Good thing you're not very effective. Why not just jerk off furiously in your basement instead? Nobody gives a shit either way.

      Five Factors Shifting the Future of Malware and Platform Security

    32. Re:I REALLY hope Apple wins... by DECS · · Score: 1

      NYC being the Big Apple doesn't have any relation to a dispute over the similarity of a logo.

      Both are abstracted 2D outlines of very similar proportions.

      NYC can't claim any rights to Apple's 30 year old logo design just because both entities share a common noun.

      This really has anti-Apple clowns all frothed up though.

    33. Re:I REALLY hope Apple wins... by TapeCutter · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "The treatment of Turing is a shame - he arguably saved more lives than anyone else in WW2."

      I agree, the Betchley park guys kept the Atlantic open, and their US franchise shortend the Pacific war using the same techniques. The Manhattan project 'got all the attention' because it signaled the end of WW2 and the start of the cold war. Turing's woefull treament by the authorities means he will eventually take his place as the 20th century's version of Gallelieo.

      --
      And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
    34. Re:I REALLY hope Apple wins... by sjames · · Score: 1

      Actually, I don't believe I would mistake the two for each other. The GreenNYC apple has no bite out of it at all, consists mainly of a curved line, and has a stem. I doubt anyone is going to mistakingly think the city of NY has started making computers or that Apple Coumuters has decided to run a city. GreenNYC doesn't use the word Apple anywhere in it's name or slogans.

      Apple Corps and Apple Computers actually signed an agreement that Apple Computers would not get involved in distributing or producing music. Based on that, hostilities came to an end. They reneged with iTunes and ended having to settle out of court (again). That is, they did the one thing they promised never to do.

      Being fair to Apple Corps, MANY people would mistakingly think they were behind iTunes if they heard about "downloading music from Apple" after all, they DO distribute music. Note also that "The Big Apple" and Apple Corps both predate Apple Computers.

    35. Re:I REALLY hope Apple wins... by Lemmy+Caution · · Score: 1

      Not being able to use a logo you developed is "damage." And there are substantial legal costs involved in contesting a challenge. Of course, they have a "right" to do it. They have a "right" to send C&D letters to bloggers and to file a lawsuit against anyone they want. The question is whether it is ethical, reasonable, or even necessary.

      It has nothing to do with "Apple-haters." I use a MacBook and run MacOS X. Your enthusiastic defense of a massive corporation against criticism does earn you the title of "rabid fanboi," though.

    36. Re:I REALLY hope Apple wins... by DECS · · Score: 2, Informative

      I agree that there isn't a confusion between the two entities; however, the issue isn't Apple suing to stop NYC from using the idea of an apple. It's a simple one of Apple legal filing to contest a logo that has more than a little similarity to its own. It's not close to being exactly the same, but if Apple hadn't taken any action, it would not have much to stand on when a third party in the PC/MP3/smartphone/software business began using something just as similar.

      Apple Corps sued Apple over its name in 1978, and the case was settled in 1981 with Apple paying $80,000 and agreeing to stay out of the music business.

      In 1989, Apple Corps sued again over the Mac's ability to play back MIDI and the Apple IIGS, which incorporated an Ensoniq sound chip. Apple Corps had an electronics business that failed in 1968. Apple settled again, paying $26.5 million.

      When Apple introduced the iPod and iTunes, Apple Corps sued again, but the group lost its case against Apple. The two came to an agreement that gave Apple the rights to the name, the freedom to run its business, and gave Apple Corps the freedom to use the Apple name as well through a licensing agreement from Apple. The amount Apple Corps got was not published.

      All these frothing Apple critics that say the company persecuted the Beetles are uninformed.

      The Unavoidable Malware Myth: Why Apple Won't Inherit Microsoft's Malware Crown

    37. Re:I REALLY hope Apple wins... by TapeCutter · · Score: 1

      Yeah, there are a few of them, the biblical "fruit of the knowledge tree" is another. Combined with their frequent product placements on TV and movies linking the logo with well-balanced, creative people, (who just happen to have no money worries), and it all smells like viral marketing to me.

      Interestingly the WP entry on apple has three different logo's. The first dipicts Newton under a tree, the second is the 'rainbow' one from the 80's (again with the gay connection), last is the current monochrome version.

      --
      And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
    38. Re:I REALLY hope Apple wins... by realmadpuppy · · Score: 1

      hey, I no real problem with apple....except that they have a real problem with litigation. they are sue happy, sue companies, sue municipalities, sue apple fans. is is just real scummy, just like when Ford sent out those cease and desist letters to the Mustang fan clubs for posting photos of their cars on the mustang fan club web site because they own the rights to the design of the car. see, that is scummy, Apple scummy.

    39. Re:I REALLY hope Apple wins... by DECS · · Score: 1

      Apple's rainbow logo was thought up in 1976, when colors suggested technical capabilities (like the NBC peacock).

      The gay rainbow flag first started in 1978, using colors that weren't in the real rainbow (ie, the rainbow from God). It wasn't a well known gay icon until much later, probably the mid 90s outside the gay community. Hawaii had no idea the rainbow had any gay connotation when it made its license plates, and many people even recently have associated it with "diversity" in general rather than man on man action.

      The monochrome logo change was probably prompted in part by the gay association to rainbow colors, but also by then the rainbow icon looked a little dated anyway and Apple needed a fresh look to disassociate itself from mid 90s corporate failure, not homos.

      It is somewhat funny that San Francisco bought a warehouse full of gay flags to put on Market Street, but because the 1978 colors were too difficult to print at the time, the gay flag was toned down to use a different set of easier to print colors.

      Just recently, the Castro (gay neighborhood at the end of Market Street) put up a replacement version of its huge landmark flag using the original 1978 colors, so it no longer matches the rest of the flags on Market Street. Which shoots down the whole stereotype that gays are all well put together and can match colors.

    40. Re:I REALLY hope Apple wins... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not true. There are no damages or awards to either side regardless of the outcome. No, not true to you too. If somebody can not use something they have already spent money on, it normally is considered some sort of damage - outside the fucking RDF.

      Further, it is rather insulting of you to decry Apple for making use of a normal procedure set forth by law and which is in place for a very good reason. Further, it is rather insulting of Apple to prevent me from biting a nice fresh apple I have just bought from the farmer's market. Before you say "But they have not", if they can go to such a ridiculous length to protect a term so generic that they should have chosen something else actually, they can claim their trademark on any apple with a bite.

      Will you next claim it is a "big deal" when someone contests a traffic ticket in court? After all, it's a "court proceeding" which involves a judge and an official record. How dare they exercise their rights? You know what I would claim next? I would claim that you are an asshat sucking Steve Job's dick at the moment. Now go to the court and prove its wrong, asshole. What we have here is a non-story that only gained notoriety because of the many Apple-haters about. And it, ironically, proves their existence by its persistence and prevalence across so many sites and blogs today.
    41. Re:I REALLY hope Apple wins... by DECS · · Score: 1

      The whole world has a problem with litigation.

      Apple is sued daily by patent trolls, lawyers complaining that it advertises a diagonal display size that damages customers, and lots of other frivolous suits. However, we allow BS suits because we're all afraid we'll someday want to sue over something righteous and or profitable and won't be able to.

      Until there is some miracle that removes legal bullshit from being a fact of life, you'll have to sort out your anger about reading that Apple has lawyers. Keep in mind that when Apple farts, it's newsworthy. You don't ever hear about 90% of the absurd legal cases that relate to other companies

      In any case, Apple suing over a logo isn't really as evil as Microsoft being sued for being cheap and using known to be defective parts by lowest bidders in China that have resulted in Xbox units catching on fire, burning down houses, killing a baby, and burning a teen girl. And you probably didn't hear that Microsoft argued that the case was frivolous because the people should have known MS' cheap Chinese made shit might burn their house down.

      What you probably did hear about was the iPod user who was hit by lightning, or the kid who got a burn from a defective battery. Don't make all your opinions based on what you're spoon fed by the ignorant media.

    42. Re:I REALLY hope Apple wins... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Another lame effort to put a spin by an RDF affected no brain apple fanboi. This place is infested with such suckers.

    43. Re:I REALLY hope Apple wins... by omega_dk · · Score: 1

      I'm sorry, but this is the point of having registered trademarks; to have a legal way to protect the MARKs that you TRADE with. Apple has a stake in anything that wants to use a picture of an Apple, and I would expect them to file a brief opposing it no matter the product.

      What you don't seem to realize is that this is the purpose of trademarks; Someone wants to use an image/slogan/whathaveyou, and other people have a window when they can say 'I disapprove, because it looks like mine that I have a trademark on,' and then the trademark office goes through the application and all the comments and decides if the applicant can use what it wants to. THIS IS THE SYSTEM WORKING AS INTENDED.

      Can you really say that Apple doesn't have a stake in other companies using Apples for logos? Because that's what saying they shouldn't file this complaint is saying.

      --
      Just because you don't like the truth, does not make it false.
    44. Re:I REALLY hope Apple wins... by Whiney+Mac+Fanboy · · Score: 1

      First. Please read this.

      The concept is that politically powerful people who live in NYC could be induced to start taking action on the issue of IP because of this tempest in a teapot.

      NYC's own politicians are probably too busy with shit to care about another minor issue from some legal challenge.


      What is it? New York isn't interested in the issue, or they're interested in it enough to start taking action on IP reform.

      Try & think things through before posting.

      --
      There are shills on slashdot. Apparently, I'm one of them.
    45. Re:I REALLY hope Apple wins... by sweet_petunias_full_ · · Score: 2, Interesting

      What a lot of people don't realize is how aggressively lawyers are expected to defend a trademark. Apple's lawyers must show "due diligence" in cases like this, or else they are considered not to be doing their job. Their fear must be that Apple Records or some other preexisting "Apple" company may decide to sublicense their trademark to the makers of knockoff computer products and draw off some marketshare from Apple. Obviously, I think Apple would follow through with their suit and try to defend against borderline cases like this any way they can.

      A long time ago, Apple got to keep their name only because they didn't sell records. That seemed fair enough at the time. Now it's not entirely clear who would win should there be a renewed dispute with Apple Records because the computer company has now become the #1 music seller. It would be very interesting to see what would happen if Apple Records began their own iTunes equivalent or licensed their brand to the makers of cheap ipod knockoffs. That would be ironic, but if it never happens it will be because of the credible threat of red ink flowing as a result, created by the lawyers acting as they do, regardless of what seems fair.

      ...Which comes to prove that lawyers would make really good terrorists. :-P

      --
      You can't send a takedown notice to an already printed newspaper.
    46. Re:I REALLY hope Apple wins... by Lemmy+Caution · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It will be the "system working as intended" if they find against Apple. Likewise, if I sue you for something utterly ridiculous and it is thrown out, then the system is "working as intended."

      That doesn't make the initial filing any less worthy of ridicule or critique.

      I actually don't think Apple has a stake in each and every use of an apple in a logo or other iconic circumstance, any more than T-Mobile does with the color magenta or IBM with stripes.

    47. Re:I REALLY hope Apple wins... by DECS · · Score: 1

      Hey retard,

      I slow it down again for you:

      People with money and influence live in NYC.

      They're not the same people who run the city's business.

      Both are involved in some sort of political job.

      Sorry you're so easily confused, but if you don't get it yet, I'm not going to spend the time explaining it further.

      I'm not being nice; I think you're an asshole.

    48. Re:I REALLY hope Apple wins... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It takes a special breed of retard to still claim he is right when he was just forced to admit that he doesn't know what he was talking about.

      So, to sum up, Lemmy Caution == retard

    49. Re:I REALLY hope Apple wins... by 1u3hr · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Can you really say that Apple doesn't have a stake in other companies using Apples for logos?

      Yes, I can. If a company uses a common English word and an image of a real, natural object, it does not have the right to prevent anyone else using that. And they must know that going in. If you make up a word, like "Microsoft" and a unique logo, you can be a hardass. If you choose an word that is a part of the language and an image that you can find in a million works of art, than you're an idiot and a jerk if you think you can control everyone's use of this word and logo. And fortunately, in this case, the city of NY has lawyers to make its case, I would expect a judge to dismiss Apple's claim very quickly. The problem comes when the megacorporation's mere threats of litigation force everyone else to give up for fear of ruinous litigation (as Microsoft has done with its similar unconscionable appropriation of the word "Windows").

      Anyone with an ounce of common sense can see this logo is quite distinct from Apple's, it is nothing to do with their line of business and could do no harm to it.

    50. Re:I REALLY hope Apple wins... by noidentity · · Score: 1

      'So, what doe's the apo'strophe mean, Mr. 'smarty pant's?

    51. Re:I REALLY hope Apple wins... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Mod parent up - apple fanbois all over this one

    52. Re:I REALLY hope Apple wins... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Apple has to vigorously defend its trademark or lose it.
      Yes, if someone else uses Apple's trademark then Apple has to defend it or use it.

      This is not Apple's trademark, so Apple does not have to do anything at all.

    53. Re:I REALLY hope Apple wins... by squiggleslash · · Score: 1

      I'm not the GP and I understood the OP's point, but I have to say I disagree and I disagree with your assessment. Here's why.

      So-called "intellectual property law" is a somewhat misleading category that includes both good and bad laws designed to protect intangible property. Copyright, for the most part, is a good idea but current laws are far too draconian. Patents are of questionable usefulness (to a society, I mean, not to a patent holder...) the concept is inherently draconian (I can't use something I independently invented because someone else invented it before I did?), and even patent supporters would, for the most part - with some notable exceptions - agree that patents cover far too many areas of creativity at the moment.

      But trademark law in the US is relatively sensible. Trademark law, above all, is about making it hard for someone to pass themselves off as someone else. To do that, the "someone else" is allowed to take something that isn't in the public domain already associated with their area of business, and monopolize it for as long as it stays out of the public domain, but only in relation to their business.

      Apple doesn't have a case, as the City of New York has pointed out. The term "Apple" to describe NYC has been in the public domain for decades, and for much longer than Apple has been in existence, let alone had the trademark. This isn't a loophole that NYC has fallen through, this is absolutely the way it works. The term is in the public domain, and it has little or nothing to do with Apple Inc's area of business.

      Now, if I tried to use the word "Apple" to describe my computer business, it's possible it might confuse customers who may believe my company has something to do with Steve Jobs's outfit. In that case, trademark law would apply. Would this be unfair? No, it wouldn't: my calling my business "Apple" is unfair both to Apple Inc and to society at large whose ability to trade would be undermined by completely unnecessary confusion.

      I've yet to see a case in the US where someone's enforcement of a trademark was genuinely unfair to the people accused of misusing it. Most of the outrage tends to be associated with C&D letters, or even polite, friendly, "please stop doing that" letters such as the one T-Mobile sent Engadget last week; but in terms of actual court cases, I haven't seen any cases where someone was genuinely the victim of an abuse of trademark law.

      Another just law is the one that outlaws Murder. If it became common for people to falsely accuse others of murder, we wouldn't claim that the laws that outlaw murder are somehow unjust.

      Copyright law: good in concept, bad in execution. Patent laws: dubious in concept, execution over-broad and flawed by concept. Trademark law: good on concept, pretty good in execution in the US. Why we lump these three together in the first place is questionable.

      --
      You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
    54. Re:I REALLY hope Apple wins... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The original apple logo had a rainbow.

    55. Re:I REALLY hope Apple wins... by drsquare · · Score: 1

      How could city-level politicians affect national and international IP laws?

    56. Re:I REALLY hope Apple wins... by radarjd · · Score: 1

      I'm sorry, but this is the point of having registered trademarks; to have a legal way to protect the MARKs that you TRADE with.

      Actually, the purpose of a trademark is for a consumer to be able to identify the origin of a product. Trademark infringement cases figure out "likelihood of confusion" to determine if a trademark has been violated. The point of having "registered" trademarks is to make part of the likelihood of confusion analysis easier to determine. That is, one of the elements of likelihood of confusion is the existence of "secondary meaning" of a mark. "Secondary meaning" basically means that a mark has a meaning that's different from the plain meaning of the words or symbols that make up a mark. Registration is prima facie evidence of secondary meaning.

    57. Re:I REALLY hope Apple wins... by Trazer · · Score: 1

      Obviously Apple are still pissed about the whole logo debacle with Apple Corps in 1978 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Corps_v_Apple_Computer I hate hypocrites!

    58. Re:I REALLY hope Apple wins... by k2enemy · · Score: 1

      Hey /.! How about posting about 'filing suit' when it actually happens, and not when someone lacks basic reading comprehension? Not even in TFA does it mention a legal dispute; it says it filed a challenge to NYC's trademark application. Speaking of reading comprehension, you'll notice that I never mention a suit. Maybe your comment was not directed at me even though it is a reply to my post?
    59. Re:I REALLY hope Apple wins... by thegnu · · Score: 2

      Can you really say that Apple doesn't have a stake in other companies using Apples for logos? Because that's what saying they shouldn't file this complaint is saying.

      only if they're in the same field of business. I thought the Apple Corps. suit was borderline, but their logic was sound.

      How are these fields related here? Apple makes their computers with recyclable parts? Apple makes people feel good about themselves for participating in an ad campaign? Tell me.
      --
      Please stop stalking me, bro.
    60. Re:I REALLY hope Apple wins... by sjames · · Score: 1

      I agree that there isn't a confusion between the two entities; however, the issue isn't Apple suing to stop NYC from using the idea of an apple. It's a simple one of Apple legal filing to contest a logo that has more than a little similarity to its own. It's not close to being exactly the same, but if Apple hadn't taken any action, it would not have much to stand on when a third party in the PC/MP3/smartphone/software business began using something just as similar.

      A trademark holder must vigorously defend the mark against infringement, but there isn't any infringement to defend against here, so that has nothing to do with anything (except for overzealous lawyers). There's no danger of confusion and one of the entities isn't even a business.

      If/when NYC starts making computers, software, downloadable music, phones, or MP3 players, Apple Computers will be required to defend their mark, but I don't think it's at all likely.

      Basically, there is no legal need for Apple to do anything here for the same reason they don't have to sue every orchard, fruit stand and teacher's association as well as every Christian organization that uses an apple WITH A BITE OUT OF IT to represent original sin. Not to mention the many sellers of "Apple" juice.

      I certainly agree that it is entirely unfair to claim Apple Computers persecuted (or even prosecuted) the Beatles. Apple Computers was the defendant in each encounter there. However, in each of those cases, Apple Corps had more cause for action than there is in this case.

    61. Re:I REALLY hope Apple wins... by ljraggy · · Score: 1

      The NYC logo vs the apple logos are nothing alike But the Australian ABC could have a right to claim against NYC as well, Just like the 'I LUV BNE' Promotion/T-shirts Brisbane AU is promoting. ABC LOGO apple vs NYC i LUV BNE LOGO

    62. Re:I REALLY hope Apple wins... by ChrmnMa0 · · Score: 1

      Ok, its official, apple is the new 3rd Reich. M$ can sleep safely now.

      --
      "Victory can be anticipated, but not assured" - Sun Tzu
    63. Re:I REALLY hope Apple wins... by omega_dk · · Score: 1

      Well, judging by the amount of time Greenpeace spends bashing Apple based on their environmental policy, I would say that Apple does have a stake in people associating them with the environment - especially because it is entirely within the realm of reason for them to want to release an 'environmentally friendly' computer at some point, and if NYC has this logo they may be kept from advertising it with their logo.

      Then again, I would expect this challenge to occur from ANY company with a similar logo. If NYC was using a freaking mattress for some reason, I would expect Sealy/serta to file a challenge (well, bad example because I don't think sealy/serta actually use a mattress, but you get the point). That is just how the system is supposed to work.

      Nothing about this challenge means that Apple will automatically win. I really don't see why so many people are opposed to apple using the system that is set up so that they DON'T have to use the courts to settle something?

      --
      Just because you don't like the truth, does not make it false.
    64. Re:I REALLY hope Apple wins... by omega_dk · · Score: 1

      I am not saying this is the case, but people associating Apple with the environment could be a bad thing when the next Greenpeace report lambasting them comes out (because lets face it, there is no way Greenpeace won't lambast Apple again. It gets them way too much press coverage.)

      If, at some point, Apple wants to start a campaign about eco-friendly computing with some new eco-friendly computer that they sometime release, they damn sure want to be able to market it under their logo. The existence of the NYC trademark may keep them from doing so, so they oppose it. It's really not that hard; they want to keep their options open, and so don't want there to be another company using a logo similar to theirs.

      --
      Just because you don't like the truth, does not make it false.
    65. Re:I REALLY hope Apple wins... by Lemmy+Caution · · Score: 2, Insightful

      In that case, the counter-claim should be at least as effective. The city has been using apples in logos and campaigns since at least the early 1970s, and if they want to pursue technology initiatives, they may want to "keep their options open."

      No, I'm sorry. This action merits all the ridicule it is receiving.

    66. Re:I REALLY hope Apple wins... by omega_dk · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I agree. The counterclaim should be exactly as effective. They both should be given equal weight by the trademark arbiter, and a decision made based on the merits of each of their cases. I could easily see them deciding that the uses were different enough to grant NYC's trademark. I can also understand Apple having qualms about other companies using apples similar to theirs in an ad campaign.

      What I would most expect is the solution Engadget proposed -- a settlement. Apple announces some low-power, carbon-neutral, eco-buzzword of the day compliant version of the iPod or the Mini or something, and co-advertise it with NYC in some eco-friendly computing campaign.

      I very much doubt this will end up being decided by the trademark office; I very much think Apple will 'let' them use their trademark (deserved or not) in exchange for an Apple-funded cross promotion of some sort. NYC would be stupid not to take the added advertisement that an Apple ad campaign would give them, and Apple gains very much among their key demographic by being associated with a group working to provide green _____.

      --
      Just because you don't like the truth, does not make it false.
    67. Re:I REALLY hope Apple wins... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You seem like you would be familiar with the trademark system. Apple has to vigorously defend their mark or risk losing it. This means they do have file an opposition to another corporation using an Apple logo in the same market where they sell their wares. Again, you seem like you would be familiar with the trademark system.

    68. Re:I REALLY hope Apple wins... by gnasher719 · · Score: 1

      I think the bite in the Apple logo has been pointed out to be a play on a computer byte. I can't imagine Apple would do a tribute to Turing's death by linking the company's logo to the cause of death. That would be creepy. Definitely not in 1977. At that time, Turing was known to computer scientists for his achievements, but details of his life (and death) were not widely known until Andrew Hodges' biography which was published in 1983. In 1977, Jobs and Wozniak wouldn't have thought about Alan Turing. (Just a funny detail: The spelling checker in Safari marks Hodges and Wozniak as spelt incorrectly, but apparently knows "Turing" and "Jobs". )
    69. Re:I REALLY hope Apple wins... by gnasher719 · · Score: 1

      A long time ago, Apple got to keep their name only because they didn't sell records. That seemed fair enough at the time. Now it's not entirely clear who would win should there be a renewed dispute with Apple Records because the computer company has now become the #1 music seller. It would be very interesting to see what would happen if Apple Records began their own iTunes equivalent or licensed their brand to the makers of cheap ipod knockoffs. That would be ironic, but if it never happens it will be because of the credible threat of red ink flowing as a result, created by the lawyers acting as they do, regardless of what seems fair. Last year, Apple Inc. bought all the trademarks that were owned by Apple Corps, owner of Apple Records, for an undisclosed sum. Apple Corps has a license to keep using the name free of charge. I don't think Apple Corps has any right to sell the right to use the name "Apple" to anyone.
    70. Re:I REALLY hope Apple wins... by k3r3nsky'sr3v3ng3 · · Score: 1

      I'm sorry, but this is the point of having registered trademarks; to have a legal way to protect the MARKs that you TRADE with. Apple has a stake in anything that wants to use a picture of an Apple, and I would expect them to file a brief opposing it no matter the product. What you don't seem to realize is that this is the purpose of trademarks; Someone wants to use an image/slogan/whathaveyou, and other people have a window when they can say 'I disapprove, because it looks like mine that I have a trademark on,' and then the trademark office goes through the application and all the comments and decides if the applicant can use what it wants to. THIS IS THE SYSTEM WORKING AS INTENDED. Can you really say that Apple doesn't have a stake in other companies using Apples for logos? Because that's what saying they shouldn't file this complaint is saying. That is like saying that Intel was being threatened because other companies/organizations could use the number 80486 in a name. Seriously, if apple seriously wanted to have a unique trademark or "think different" they shouldn't have named it after a fruit. And BTW, Intel lost their claim to copyright numbers.
      --
      "We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security." Dwight Eisenhower
    71. Re:I REALLY hope Apple wins... by omega_dk · · Score: 1

      Copyright != trademark. Come back when you know the issue at hand, and can make rational, intelligent conversation instead of making blind comments about complete nonsequitors.

      --
      Just because you don't like the truth, does not make it false.
    72. Re:I REALLY hope Apple wins... by omega_dk · · Score: 1

      Oh, and after searching to figure out what you were talking about with Intel and the 80486, I found out that it was INTEL that was not allowed to use it because someone else had the trademark on the 80___ prefix. So while Intel did lose, and had to name their processor "i486", thats because someone else already had the trademark that prevented them from calling it "80486"! Interesting how you mistook the facts in a case you yourself brought up...

      --
      Just because you don't like the truth, does not make it false.
    73. Re:I REALLY hope Apple wins... by sweet_petunias_full_ · · Score: 1

      Thanks for your update, I never heard about that.

      If true, then this eases Apple's worries about one company, but they still have to pursue every other company (or governmental entity, or non-profit) that might use a curvy fruit shape as a logo.

      Particularly worrying is the business of agriculture... if an orchard can't put an apple logo on their product, then who can, right?

      Even if all of this seems bizarre to most of us, that's the way the law is written, so the lawyers have to follow this practice to the ends of the earth if need be.

      --
      You can't send a takedown notice to an already printed newspaper.
    74. Re:I REALLY hope Apple wins... by Keith_Beef · · Score: 1

      The Apple Corps used a photographic apple logo with proportions very different than Apple's iconic 2D apple outline logo. The NYC campaign looks like Apple's logo with a swoosh instead of a bite.
      1. The NYC logo is sufficiently different to Apple Computer's logo that there is no risk of confusion.
      2. The NYC logo being used for an environmentalism campaign, there is no risk of confusion.

      That's all there is to it.

      Look at this for another apple logo. http://www.pomme-limousin.org/images/limdor%20copier.jpg

    75. Re:I REALLY hope Apple wins... by ObiWanKenblowme · · Score: 1

      Not being able to use a logo you developed barely qualifies as damage. And at the risk of being labeled a "rabid fanboi" too just because I disagree with you and have a slightly better grasp of IP law, Apple's opposition is ethical, reasonable, and absolutely necessary - trademarks must be defended (which is what Apple is doing here) or else they can be dismissed.

      IMO, the two logos are probably different enough to stand on their own, but Apple can't afford to risk losing its trademark through a lack of defense.

      --
      Obvious exits are NORTH, SOUTH, and DENNIS.
    76. Re:I REALLY hope Apple wins... by DECS · · Score: 1

      No that's not "all there is to it."

      If I were starting a dry cleaning business, I couldn't rip off some internationally known corporate icon for a company that does some unrelated business and be okay just because I'm in a different industry and nobody would confuse our enterprises together. The point is, people might confuse the logos together, watering out the brand strength of the original.

      Apple's logo doesn't have to be carbon copied in order to result in an infringing look alike. People are breathlessly panting "there's no bite missing!!" WTF? It's Apple's stylized icon with a swirl. Real apples don't look like that. And nothing about a green Apple logo with a swirl says "Big Apple."

      That's the real point. You don't have to agree with Apple's lawyers (and I can't say that they are clearly right OR are even taking action that might be enough of a PR problem to offset any need to take IP action) to understand that.

      Every Apple hater just crawled out of the woodwork to revile the company for a routine logo infringement complaint, just like they did when Safari popped up as an install option for Windows users who installed Apple's Software Update. Neither are issues, they're just lightning rods for hysterical haters.

      The worst part is those who have to make up "this is the only way the world can be" declarations of corporate morality and compare Apple to a criminal outfit such as Microsoft. Too much.

    77. Re:I REALLY hope Apple wins... by Pandaemonium · · Score: 1

      Okay, this is getting out of hand.

      Please realize that Apple has to defend it's trademark. This means that Apple will ALWAYS file claims against anything resembling an apple, the word apple, the color red- anything that could even be slightly related to an apple.

      Want to know why? Because if someone DOES actually create a trademark that's very close to theirs, and in court it's shown that they didn't respond to any other trademarks, they could lose the trademark altogether.

      Straight from Wikipedia:
      "Unlike patents and copyrights, which in theory are granted for one-off fixed terms, trademarks remain valid as long as the owner actively uses and defends them and maintains their registrations with the applicable jurisdiction's trademarks office."

      So, this is really meaningless. It will get thrown out. But Apple has to defend their trademark ALL the time, or else when it's truly threatened in court, they could lose it.

    78. Re:I REALLY hope Apple wins... by realmadpuppy · · Score: 1

      "What you probably did hear about was the iPod user who was hit by lightning, or the kid who got a burn from a defective battery." sorry, never heard about those things. but, Apple suing bloggers and apple fan sites, sure you hear about that all the time. that's what makes them pricks. P.S. I never made any mention about Microsoft, they are really no better than Apple or any other Corporation. Do you really want anyone to believe that Apple is somehow more moral that every other corporation? Don't make all YOUR opinions based on what you're spoon fed by Apple PR. and your fanboyism.

    79. Re:I REALLY hope Apple wins... by DECS · · Score: 1

      You tumbled off the serious wagon and into emotionalism there.

      Apple has every right to sue bloggers and "fan sites." I'm connected to sites that have been sued. The better question is: why were they sued? Apple sued for information on leaks. It did not sue them for damages. It was found by the courts to have a case without merit.

      A corporation is just a group of people working together. Being a corporation doesn't make a partnership evil.

      Microsoft is bad for holding back technology, overcharging users, cheating its partners, preventing competing products from reaching the market, and producing poor products... all things that it has been found guilty of in court.

      Apple isn't more moral in your emotionally enraptured sense of the term, its just a company that strives to deliver great products more than control markets. Microsoft has no enthusiasm for great products, it's all about money.

      Look at the difference of Ballmer and Jobs: night and day.

      Maybe if you stopped parroting off easy to repeat talking points it would be easier to take your opinions seriously. Perhaps start by defining how I've ever repeated anything from Apple PR.

    80. Re:I REALLY hope Apple wins... by realmadpuppy · · Score: 1

      zzzzz..... What's with the Microsoft comparisons, I am not a Microsoft fan. and to be honest I don't dislike Apple computers except for their price/performance ratio. please, Apple is no better than any other company, you can insult if you like but lets be realistic. I am a Big fan of Toyota, There is no car that compares in my opinion, But, I do not believe for one second that they are perfect. walking around with palm branches in their hands and wanting to unite the world. They are a public company, and no matter what, it is all about the BOTTOM LINE, if making cars better than anyone else makes more money for shareholders then that is what they will do. just like Apple. and the difference between Ballmer and Jobs is that Jobs is way better at manipulation. Ballmer is easier to dislike, he cannot control his mouth and he looks like an untrustworthy person. And one more thing, Emotionalism is the purview of Apple,Microsoft and Linux fanboys.

    81. Re:I REALLY hope Apple wins... by DECS · · Score: 1

      Toyota hasn't done anything to consistently revolutionize the auto.

      There are brands I like for various reasons, whether because I like their product, have fallen for their marketing, or just have some nostalgic attachment.

      I happen to like New Balance shoes and Volkswagons, but I don't write about them because they are a personal interest and not all that exciting nor revolutionary, just like your Toyota.

      Apple is revolutionary. It has a long history of developing and introducing new technologies in ways that can actually be used. At several points, the company became stale and released uninspired products, as I've chronicled. It's also made decisions recently that can be debated and criticized.

      I defend or describe a number of things Apple does that I think are notable or misrepresented by the corporate media and by simpletons who repeat CNET/ZDNet chatter. I don't comment on a lot of Apple's flaws because they are already detailed in extreme detail elsewhere.

      And it's not that I emotionally defend Apple, because I don't. I just criticize morons, and in the battle between morons and Apple, its easy to come across as right all the time when you side with Apple. How many morons have introduced something like the iPod, or the iPhone, or deeply eaten into Microsoft?

    82. Re:I REALLY hope Apple wins... by realmadpuppy · · Score: 1

      Revolutionize?! an mp3 player?! If I recall there were mp3 players before the iPod. And what's with the assumption that I read zdnet or one of the other ziff-davis rags. sheesh! As for Toyota, just like Apple they took what someone else invented and did something different, thats all, Toyota made their cars many times more reliable than anybody else. Apple took a free OS slapped on a proprietary face and marketed the hell out of it. just like the i-Pod they took what was already there and made a slick wheel interface charged 3 times what everybody else was for mp3 players and marketed the hell out of it. Apple: a great marketing company that makes a product that is better than Microsoft's but by far not the best. just the slickest. I'm sorry, New York City has been called the big apple as far back as the 1930's, if you think that Apple is going to win this I think you are mistaken. NYC government is not filled with morons or bloggers or give a rats hind quarters about how cool Apple is. they will protect their copyright in a way that Apple has never seen. thank for the debate, it was fun. don't take what I say so seriously. for all you know I am a linux fanboy! :P

    83. Re:I REALLY hope Apple wins... by Scudsucker · · Score: 1

      Mod parent up - apple fanbois all over this one

      Yes, you can see them standing over there, right next to Big Foot.

    84. Re:I REALLY hope Apple wins... by Scudsucker · · Score: 1

      Your enthusiastic defense of a massive corporation against criticism does earn you the title of "rabid fanboi," though.

      That's the problem with Apple: anyone who makes a rational, fact based defense of the company from rumormongers such as yourself gets called a "fanboi". Your rumor was debunked, time to deal with it and stop being a rabid asshat.

  3. In other news by shadowofwind · · Score: 5, Funny

    Hasbro sues Idaho over infrignement on Mr. Potato Head brand

    1. Re:In Other News by thegrassyknowl · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It all sounds like a case of:

      Apple: Hey you fuckpig lawyers, why do we pay you so much

      Fuckpigs: Because we sue people and make you money

      Apple: So fuck off and sue someone then

      Fuckpigs: Who?

      Apple: Do we look like we really give a shit?

      Fuckpigs: Ok, how about a city that's been calling itself an apple since before computers were invented or a 12 year old?

      Apple: Somebody will think of the children, sue the city.

      --
      I drink to make other people interesting!
    2. Re:In other news by thegnu · · Score: 5, Funny

      It took me 15 seconds to realize that this wasn't portuguese.

      --
      Please stop stalking me, bro.
    3. Re:In other news by Viceroy+Potatohead · · Score: 1

      Hey, back off! Idaho is clearly mocking us, and my people must be protected! I can really relate to Lord Steve-Applemaker. Hopefully he comes out with iAgentOrange, so he can properly go after the apple orchards as well.

  4. apple by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    god should sue them, after all they copied his design.

    1. Re:apple by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And where are the Beatless on this??

      God I love this IP nonsense...

    2. Re:apple by DECS · · Score: 1

      The Apple Corps uses a 3D-ish, photographic logo, not a 2D abstracted apple outline logo.

      Apple isn't acting to stop of the use of the word apple, but over a similar looking logo.

    3. Re:apple by Frankie70 · · Score: 4, Funny

      god should sue them, after all they copied his design.


      Yes, but why would Steve Jobs sue Apple.
  5. Re:WTF is wrong with slashdot? by beelsebob · · Score: 1, Informative

    Or... fix your browser.

  6. Apple's REAL Complaint by Bieeanda · · Score: 2, Funny

    The Apple logo encourages people to drop hundreds (if not thousands) of dollars on electronic gadgets they may or may not need (more energy consumption). GreeNYC apple will be used to encourage people to walk, bike and unplug appliances when not in use (less energy consumption).
    Green is bad for business.
    1. Re:Apple's REAL Complaint by Missing_dc · · Score: 1

      They mark you as funny, but there is a sick sort of irony/truth to your statement

      --
      How amazed would you be to suddenly find that you just forgot what I wrote and you needed to reread my post.... again.
  7. Rainbow and Silver by retech · · Score: 4, Funny

    Next up: Apple sues every gay pride organization and person wearing a rainbow for their old (shitty) logo infringement.

    After that: Apple will sue the Universe for Mercury, Silver, Nickel, Tin, Aluminum and Lead all using the colour silver, an obvious infringement upon their new logo.

    I suppose Jobs will start suing anyone who wears a turtleneck while giving Keynote presentations.

    Please someone (namely the judges), stop the madness.

    1. Re:Rainbow and Silver by nomadic · · Score: 2, Funny

      Next up: Apple sues every gay pride organization and person wearing a rainbow

      Their customers, in other words?

    2. Re:Rainbow and Silver by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Next up: Apple sues every gay pride organization and person wearing a rainbow Why would Apple sue its users?
  8. I don't see the problem by Hempy · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Where's the problem here? It's not like NYC tried to call themselves "i(The Big Apple)" or "The Big iApple". I also wonder about all of those T-Shirts and bumper stickers that read "I NYC". Do you think people will start getting sued for wearing one or will it be the manufacturer for making them? "Next up at 10, supermarkets across the nation selling apples must pay licensing fees to Apple, Inc. for displaying them on their shelves and using them in their weekly advertisements."

    --
    Never argue with idiots, they just drag you down to their level then beat you with experience.
  9. NYC & Company, Inc. by Animats · · Score: 1

    NYC and Company(tm), Inc., the marketing arm of NYC(tm) has been very aggressive in trademarking. Just ask the locals. (tm).

    Apple isn't going to win this one.

  10. In Other News by Enderandrew · · Score: 4, Funny

    A twelve-year old boy posted on his blog that he really wants an iPod for his birthday, but is considering holding out for Christmas, hoping that the next iteration of the iPod will be out by then. Apple assumes someone broke an NDA on the release date of the next iPod, and they are suing the poor boy, and everyone he has friended on MySpace. Tom was not available for comment.

    --
    http://blindscribblings.com - Tasty pop-culture in conceptual fashion.
  11. C'mon, Apple! by christurkel · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I am die hard Mac fan and the two are even close to the same. Actually, NYC's looks like a heart to me.

    --

    CDE open sourced! https://sourceforge.net/projects/cdesktopenv/
    1. Re:C'mon, Apple! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Perhaps you should consider not staying a fan. They are constantly doing shit like this.

    2. Re:C'mon, Apple! by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 1

      I am die hard Mac fan and the two are even close to the same.

      Did you mean "aren't even close"?

      I don't mean to be a grammar nazi, but your comment got +5'ed, and I'm not clear if the mods were supporting the positive or negative implication of your post.

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
    3. Re:C'mon, Apple! by mgblst · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I could care less!!

  12. On the other hand... by weston · · Score: 1

    the other extreme outcome (Apple's trademark rights eroded) might also cause some positive reactions and make potential future actors more cautious.

    So I think it's likely we'll see an alloyed settlement. That's what's likely to benefit the lawyers, anway (and both parties, I suppose).

  13. Apple may actually have a case by Cedric+Tsui · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Wow. Apple may actually have a case here. One of the anonymous comments in TFA from a graphics designer is fantastic. I can't link to it, so I'll copy it.

    Subject: Apples to Oranges, Image Attached!
    Sat Apr 05, 2008 5:16 am

    I worked for many years as a graphic designer and found that most artists "borrow" good design. That is what we are taught to do. It's not blatant plagiarism, but used as the root in preliminary design and eventual fruit in this case, of the final design.

    After comparing the two side by side, or rather overlayed one atop the other and turned into transparencies, it is clear the original apple logo was used as the basis for the design in question.

    If you look closely you can see the greenNYC logo follows the exact curve of the apple and in fact may have been "cookie cut" from an actual Apple Inc. logo using special image editing tools.

    You can go through thousands of clip art and dingbats and not come across the same curve. However, I have seen the Apple logo as a symbol in a couple typefaces presumably placed there by a dedicated fan.(???)

    It is not uncommon to paste dozens of similar logos and symbols all over the work area to help along the process.

    This artist took it a little too far and figured no one would notice. Some of us hear myths about changing a design by a certain percent makes it okay...well not quite.

    The designer probably put a stylized letter "S", squashed it, flopped it, and punched it out of the Apple Inc. logo. Then tweaked the ends of the "S" and fused on the stem.

    Then they grabbed the Apple Inc. leaf and flopped it and moved it slightly down and to the left.

    "Down, and to the left. Down and to the left..."

    *image was posted here*

    I've been guilty of similar blunders, and was surprised when my client caught it...even though it had a different typeface, different colors, different markets AND my own Icon built from scratch!

    Too similar he said...no go.

    That's when I learned just placing elements the same as another can make you out as a copy cat even though the artwork is your own.

    Go easy on the designer...

    Probably up way too late, from way too many lattes for way too little money.

    I guarantee you Apple Inc. paid more to challenge the design than the actual designer got paid in the first place.

    There's just no money in it.

    Sad but true.

    Many so called design firms hire freelance that are often out of the country like India for mere pennies compared to established firms in the U.S.

    You have a better chance of being a movie star than getting rich playing designer! Find a friend in the business and latch on, otherwise you're just another pretty fish.

    My 2 cents anyway.

    If you can't access the link above just click here or copy and paste the address into your address bar to view the image.

    http://img261.imageshack.us/my.php?image=applestoorangesua8.jpg

    1. Re:Apple may actually have a case by Kalriath · · Score: 5, Insightful

      What the hell is that designer on? The curve of the Apple logo isn't even close to the curve of the NYC apple!

      If you were to remove the Apple logo, I wouldn't even see the resemblence (because there isn't one). I hope Apple gets crushed in court.

      --
      For a site about things like basic rights, Slashdot users sure do like to censor "dissent".
    2. Re:Apple may actually have a case by Blakey+Rat · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Look at this example, too:

      http://rgov.org/college-media-advisers-08

    3. Re:Apple may actually have a case by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Uh, did you look at the image that you actually link to? The right side of the logo is much further out than the Apple logo, even ignoring the bite that would still be there if the explanation were true. The leaf is a completely different shape and relative size, so even the cut and paste claim there doesn't hold water.

      The very example that is supposed to prove it shows it isn't true.

    4. Re:Apple may actually have a case by Destined+Soul · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Is it just me, or am I the only one who thought the overlayed images would have matched much better in terms of the curvature? After looking closely at the edges and how the edges of each of the apples curve, particularly noticeable near the "bite mark" where Apple's bite curves in "substantially" more than NYC's version.

    5. Re:Apple may actually have a case by Nightspirit · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Those look totally different, it doesn't match the shape on the bottom left, the indentation on the bottom, and most of the right side. The only place it appears to somewhat match are the top left curve, and there are only so many ways you can draw an apple.

    6. Re:Apple may actually have a case by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sorry, it's just a coincidence that they look similar. Obviously pretty much any designer has seen the Apple logo before and that might provide inspiration but I seriously doubt they just copied the actual logo. It's just a coincidence.

      I have done this myself. I have designed something totally on my own without even a reference and it accidentally matched other people's work as much as this NYC/Apple comparison. No joke. It's just part of the artist's eye. A good design is a good design.

    7. Re:Apple may actually have a case by inflex · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Only reason they appear 'close' according to that 'designer' is because of the limited resolution and a big slice of wishful thinking. There's a lot of differences in the curve outline between the two;

      * the right hand bottom/mid side where the infinity symbol bulges out
      * the right hand top side the infinity logo again is on the inside of the apple logo
      * the left hand side the curve infinity symbol is on the -inside- of the apple logo
      * the bottom bumps of the infinity curve have a lesser curvature

      Sorry, but that guys reasoning of similarities is about as useful as saying "If you squint, then this Ford car looks clearly like this Chevy, see, it even has 4 wheels!".

    8. Re:Apple may actually have a case by Cedric+Tsui · · Score: 1

      Hmm. Yeah.
      It wasn't zoomed in this close when he posted it.
      However, you can also see that the left side isn't quite lined up. If you moved the infinity apple a little further to the left, it could fit a little better.

      aside from that. If the fella 'punched it to the apple logo' he might not have done so perfectly.

      Anyways. You're right. It's not as close as I first thought it was.

    9. Re:Apple may actually have a case by Ecuador · · Score: 1

      Hahaha. That post made me laugh. The "graphic designer" is blind (the curves don't really match) and a complete idiot (to claim that it is easier to make the logo in question by "cookie cutting" Apple's logo).
      However, I hope that judges agree with Apple's reasoning, that the logo is comfusingly similar and bad for business. An so, drop Apple's logo since NYC has been called the Big Apple for decades...

      --
      Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent. Polar Scope Align for iOS
    10. Re:Apple may actually have a case by Stan92057 · · Score: 0

      Do you mean to say that a picture of a real apple couldn't have been used? How do we know if apple didn't use a picture of a real apple to copy from? Of-course Apple used a picture of a real apple or a real apple,just like every artist that has drawn an apple used a real apple or a picture of one. Even with that being said where is the conflict,confusion between both images? Apple makes hardware among other things,NYCs logo has nothing to do with computers,ipods,iphones,apple TV. So just where is the infringement,confusion,competition? GreeNYC logo is being used by a non prophet group dealing with the filth in NYC.

      --
      Jack of all trades,master of none
    11. Re:Apple may actually have a case by Qzukk · · Score: 1

      If you moved the infinity apple a little further to the left, it could fit a little better.

      Maybe, but then the cores of the apples wouldn't have lined up in the middle.

      --
      If I have been able to see further than others, it is because I bought a pair of binoculars.
    12. Re:Apple may actually have a case by Brandybuck · · Score: 1

      "Down, and to the left. Down and to the left..."


      I just blow a chunk of ham sandwish through my nose laughing at this! Unfortunately for the Macanistas, after looking at the image the designer ends up sounding as absurd as Kevin Costner did. There was gunman on the grassy knoll and the apple wasn't ripped off from Apple.
      --
      Don't blame me, I didn't vote for either of them!
    13. Re:Apple may actually have a case by Jason+Levine · · Score: 1

      That was my thought. One curve does not make them confusingly similar. I'm not going to see the GreeNYC logo and think "Is that logo the for the company that makes iPods?" If Apple actually files suit, it should be tossed out. They don't have a case.

      --
      My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
    14. Re:Apple may actually have a case by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Cedric is right, I suggest you try it yourself. A little fun with Illustrator and you see that they overlay exactly. (He forgot to mention that you have to squish the apple a little bit in the horizontal)....

    15. Re:Apple may actually have a case by mark356 · · Score: 1

      I agree. Why else would the resolution be so bad. It looks like something I used to get from my Commodore Vic20 plugged into a black and white TV.

    16. Re:Apple may actually have a case by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >>from a graphics designer

      He either needs medication or eye-glasses.
      BTW, is there a limit on how many fanbois can post comment in one article? These suckers are getting lame and it's not even fun anymore.

    17. Re:Apple may actually have a case by slimjim8094 · · Score: 1

      I'm not so sure. GP has a point - I'd love to see Apple as a litigious bastard too, but check the link he posted...

      http://img261.imageshack.us/my.php?image=applestoorangesua8.jpg

      I'm not convinced that's original. And the curves are exactly the same - did you look at the picture?

      --
      I have developed a truly marvelous proof of this comment, which this signature is too narrow to contain.
    18. Re:Apple may actually have a case by Kalriath · · Score: 1

      I disagree. The difference in curvature between Apple's logo and NYC's logo at the lower point is at least a few millimetres wider than at the central point. It's basically not the same.

      And just as importantly, the Apple logo and NYC logo can not be easily confused because without the overlay, I wouldn't see the difference.

      --
      For a site about things like basic rights, Slashdot users sure do like to censor "dissent".
    19. Re:Apple may actually have a case by slimjim8094 · · Score: 1

      The Apple logo and NYC logo can not be easily confused And that defines trademark - nobody would look at that GreeNYC logo and think 'oh, computer company'.

      I don't know if it was simply an apologist, but somebody above said that they need to do this or lose their trademark.
      --
      I have developed a truly marvelous proof of this comment, which this signature is too narrow to contain.
  14. What graphics artists have said... by gnasher719 · · Score: 1, Informative

    I've seen this on several blogs by now (Slashdot seems a bit slow today), and mostly the usual comments. Lots of people commenting on Apple Records having an Apple logo (not knowing that Apple Inc. paid probably an eight digit sum for all Apple Corps trademarks). But a few graphics artists compared the shapes of the logos - and they are identical. That New York logo has exactly the very distinctive and recognisable shape of the Apple logo. And it seems that the designers also got a bit of inspiration from Apple's headquarters address and put an infinity symbol into their logo.

    There are millions of ways to draw an apple shape. There is no reason to copy the shape of Apple's logo.

    1. Re:What graphics artists have said... by ND4SPDR · · Score: 1

      That's dumb. Maybe they look similar because they're both depicting, uh, let's see, the SAME fruit? That argument is asinine, and anyone dumb enough to confuse the two logos probably shouldn't be buying a computer anyway.

    2. Re:What graphics artists have said... by the_humeister · · Score: 5, Insightful

      That's like saying that cars look alike because they have a hood, driver/passenger doors, trunk, and 4 doors. There are only so many ways to draw an apple before it stops looking like an apple. These logos are clearly nothing alike in the ways that matter.

    3. Re:What graphics artists have said... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      I'm not sure exactly what qualifications are necessary to say the shape is the same, but I'm pretty sure whoever says they are is missing them. I overlaid the images with photoshop and changed the mode to multiply. With the heights the same the logos don't match at all. Flipped horizontally they still don't. Scaled to 112% horizontally (while keeping vertical the same) does get the sides to line up very well, but the curves at the top and bottom still don't match properly.

      Not to mention the bite is missing, the curved bottom of the Apple logo is a pointed bottom on the NYC logo, there is a stem on the NYC logo, and the leaves don't even curve in the same direction (down for Apple, up for the NYC logo).

      All in all, the *only* thing these logos have in common is an apple-like shape. And I think that actual apples own the copyright on that.

    4. Re:What graphics artists have said... by ScrewMaster · · Score: 1

      These logos are clearly nothing alike in the ways that matter.

      What matters to you, me and the rest of Slashdot doesn't matter. What matters is what the legal system thinks ... and that's a lot less predictable, and maybe a lot less rational. Time will tell.

      --
      The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
    5. Re:What graphics artists have said... by stubear · · Score: 1

      They must not have been very good graphic designers given their lack of attention to detail. Given your logic, Apple should go after Applebee's as well.

    6. Re:What graphics artists have said... by Mr.+Underbridge · · Score: 1

      But a few graphics artists compared the shapes of the logos - and they are identical.

      You mean except for the part that they look nothing alike?

    7. Re:What graphics artists have said... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      did you look at the comparison that those graphics artists have been [b|f]logging?

      I'm no Picasso, but it's fairly clear that the outline of the infinity symbol is not "cut out" from the apple logo, nor is it "curved the same", on the right side, the NYC logo clearly extends farther out than where the apple logo would have been had someone not taken a bite out of it, not to mention the stem, the fact that the top and bottom of the apple pinches way farther in (thus affecting the leaf placement, which I haven't loaded up to see if I can apply 50000 different layers of morphing to make it look almost like the Apple Computers leaf, but my untrained eye thinks it's not just a flip and a scoot.)

      Finally, unless GreeNYC is selling computers, I don't see what grounds Apple has to challenge the trademark at all.

    8. Re:What graphics artists have said... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What the graphics artists say does not matter, this is trademark registration we're talking about, and unique identification on a commercial setting is all that counts. Bringing the case on exact (possibly coincidental?) spline curve identities or whatever will never be persuasive to the public.

      In fact I will go even further and say, if the graphics artists community's idea of infringement lies on these kind of low-level similarities, then their community standards are fundamentally flawed. It is simply pursuing non-details while neglecting apparently different design.

    9. Re:What graphics artists have said... by GauteL · · Score: 1

      First, I don't believe Apple should get their way here, because they are not nearly in the same business, so the similarities in the logo isn't that important.. but these logos are clearly alike in many other ways than simply depicting an Apple.

      1. They both are purely TWO-dimensional depictions of an apple.
      2. The shapes are matching far more than what is necessary to make it look like an apple.
      3. Both apples have a leaf attached to them, where the NYC one is almost an exact mirror.

      In particular the leaf is clearly unnecessary to make it look like an apple and makes the logo look like it is clearly inspired by Apple's logo. Saying they are 'nothing alike' is just bullcrap. If I was to guess, this was a result of a slightly lazy and uninventive graphical artist.

      Still, given that NYC is known as the Big Apple, the logos are used for wildly different purposes I'd say the logos are different enough to be ok.

      But: Apple has not sued, they are simply opposing NYC getting the trade mark registered. I think it should be easy to see Apple's point even if you don't agree with them.

    10. Re:What graphics artists have said... by TheLink · · Score: 1

      (I'm not a graphics designer so I probably see things differently)

      I've seen this: http://img261.imageshack.us/my.php?image=applestoorangesua8.jpg

      And they don't look the same to me - the curvatures are different. Heck the NYC logo doesn't even look that much like an apple to me.

      Apple should just stop being assholes.

      --
    11. Re:What graphics artists have said... by mgblst · · Score: 1

      Ha, cars all do look the same, to people who don't really care about them. I don't, and think it is ridiculous when people get caught up on some great design. Sure, I can tell the difference between a Ferrari and a Mini, but everything in between looks very similar.

  15. Apples and Oranges by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    It's almost the case of comparing Apples and Oranges and saying they are so similar.

    1. Re:Apples and Oranges by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you fag. sound good. yes. you big fag.

    2. Re:Apples and Oranges by absurdist · · Score: 1
  16. Argumentation by DSVaughan · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Sounds to me like people with way too much money are arguing with other people with way too much money. If there is a definitive difference in logos, then there is no problem (legally).

  17. Hey, Steve Jobs... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...bite my Big Apple!

    signed,

    NYC

  18. Apple' opening a can of worms... by analog_line · · Score: 1

    ...and I hope they get the daylights scared out of them by the judge in the case. This lawsuit is ridiculous on its face. I'd be shocked to see this thrown back at them and have their own trademark actually canceled, but if it did happen it would be well deserved.

    I'm really surprised at a lot of Apple's moves lately. Pushing new Safari installs as an "update", and this idiotic lawsuit make it sound like there was some turnover in Apple's legal department. They've certainly always been bareknuckled, and unapologetic about suing over anything, but generally they at least have arguments, whether you agree with them or not. This is just stupid, though.

    1. Re:Apple' opening a can of worms... by Ma8thew · · Score: 1

      This isn't a lawsuit. Apple are objecting to NYC filing a trademark for their logo.

  19. bah by wizardforce · · Score: 1

    I always thought that you'd need to show that your trademarked image was reasonably similar which this is nothing of the sort. *or* that one could reasonably associate one brand with another effectively allowing the infringing brand to piggy back on the infringed trademark's notoriety. this isn't the case here either, no one's stupid enough to confuse greeNYC with Macs or any of Apple's products.

    --
    Sigs are too short to say anything truly profound so read the above post instead.
  20. APple should sue GLTGA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    For appropriating their rainbow color scheme. Confused the hell out of me the first time I saw that on a square sticker.

  21. You guys (supporting Apple) are nuts by Man+in+Spandex · · Score: 1

    What shape do you want an Apple to have? a fucking Banana?

    I bet if you replace Apple by Microsoft and the Apple logo by that wavy Windows logo, you'd have Slashdot throwing flaming paper towels at Microsoft for suing.

    1. Re:You guys (supporting Apple) are nuts by Koiu+Lpoi · · Score: 1

      Well, if Green(RandomCityHere) had a logo that was the MS Windows logo, traced, pallete swapped, and a window filled in, wouldn't we be support MS here, at least a little bit? People here on Slashdot are biased in one direction, yes, but we're not stupid. We can see when things are right and when they're not. Look at the posts above yours - you can find a picture of the two logos superimposed. One is clearly based on the other.

    2. Re:You guys (supporting Apple) are nuts by Oktober+Sunset · · Score: 1

      no, it clearly isn't. Apple's logo is fatter, it curves slightly more outwards, and has less of a dimple in the top and bottom. You can't call dibs on any representation of a fruit, and if you can, New York called dibs on apples first.

      Plus as GreeNYC are not in the computer business, Apples trademark claim means dick. Precedent for this comes from apple themselves with their battle with Apple Records. Apple need to GTFO, if they get away with this after stealing Apple Record's trademark, it proves that the trademark system is a total joke.

    3. Re:You guys (supporting Apple) are nuts by Mr.+Underbridge · · Score: 1

      Look at the posts above yours - you can find a picture of the two logos superimpose

      If you play enough with the scale, you can superimpose any arc on any other. The two don't even look remotely similar.

      What this comes down to is, is Apple going after trademark or copyright? If copyright, they'll have to prove the thing was actually copied. If trademark, they'll have to prove consumer confusion. That will be very difficult because 1) NYC is not a computer manufacturer, and 2) those things do NOT look alike to any sane person who has not recently taken a great deal of drugs.

    4. Re:You guys (supporting Apple) are nuts by Koiu+Lpoi · · Score: 1

      If you play enough with the scale, you can superimpose any arc on any other.
      Unless you keep the aspect ratio. You clearly have no idea what you're talking about, and have no place arguing if something looks similar or not in a graphic design situation.
    5. Re:You guys (supporting Apple) are nuts by Mr.+Underbridge · · Score: 1

      Unless you keep the aspect ratio. You clearly have no idea what you're talking about, and have no place arguing if something looks similar or not in a graphic design situation.

      Nobody cares, because for trademark matters the only thing that counts is consumer confusion. And as I said, no consumer would be confused by this. Again, if you're making a copyright case, the standard is a hell of lot higher than thinking they sort of look similar if you squint.

      Additionally, you're now saying that Apple owns all arcs with a given radius? For Chrissakes, people need to stop swallowing everything Jobs says. He's not the messiah, people.

    6. Re:You guys (supporting Apple) are nuts by STrinity · · Score: 1

      Look at the posts above yours - you can find a picture of the two logos superimposed. One is clearly based on the other.
      Sure, if you ignore the bite, the stem, the leaf and the fact that one is composed of a line in a sorta figure-8 and the other isn't, they're exactly alike.
      --
      Les Miserables Volume 1 now up with my reading of
    7. Re:You guys (supporting Apple) are nuts by Koiu+Lpoi · · Score: 1

      Nobody cares, because for trademark matters the only thing that counts is consumer confusion.
      So, any old logo, I can take and, as long as I've modified it enough (apparently enough is a color change, filling in some blank space, and placing my own name on it), it's different enough to call my own and there's no problem at all? Get fuckin' real.

      Additionally, you're now saying that Apple owns all arcs with a given radius?
      If I take the apple logo, enlarge it to 2x, it's still the same thing, isn't it? Sounds like, yes, they seem to have a claim to that particular arc, or at least that arc when called an apple. There are infinite different ways to draw an apple, but this logo happens to be exactly the same as Apple Computer's.
  22. My apple. by madclicker · · Score: 1

    My apple looks like an orange. All man are in danger of future lawsuits for infringement. Surgeons making a fortune.

    --
    "History is the realm of the true lie." A.Szerb
  23. quick fanboys to the rescue! by timmarhy · · Score: 1

    quickly, to the imobile to defend apple against anyone who points out the companys glaring flaws or money grubbing attitude!

    --
    If you mod me down, I will become more powerful than you can imagine....
    1. Re:quick fanboys to the rescue! by Macthorpe · · Score: 1

      You say that in jest, but our good friend Daniel Eran of Roughly Drafted posted 14 times to defend Apple from these scurrilous claims.

      There's fighting the good fight, Daniel! I hope you didn't have anything more important to do.

      --
      "It does not do to leave a live dragon out of your calculations, if you live near him." - Tolkien
  24. Re:WTF is wrong with slashdot? by Kalriath · · Score: 1

    It's shitty in Firefox as well.

    --
    For a site about things like basic rights, Slashdot users sure do like to censor "dissent".
  25. Tony & Vito will sort this out by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I am sure this will all be sorted out once Tony & Vito go over and break Steve Job's legs.

  26. It says by Dunbal · · Score: 1

    I think I read somewhere in the fine print that Apple is also claiming that the i 3 NY logo is too similar to their "i" logos (iTunes, iPods, iMacs, etc), or are they saving this for the next bunch of law suits?

    Seriously, talk about one bad Apple soiling the bunch.

    --
    Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
  27. "clear case of trademark infringement"? by sed+quid+in+infernos · · Score: 1

    TFA is mistaken about whether the use of Apple's old logo on busses and vans is a "clear case of trademark infringement." The essence of trademark infringement is the likelihood of consumer confusion. It's possible to make the case that tourists in Vietnam would likely think Apple Computer (as it was called then) was running van and bus lines in Vietnam, but it's hardly "clear."

    It is clearly copyright infringement. It also might be trademark dilution, but that's a far harder case to make than trademark infringement (meaning it's not really "clear"), and it's not widely enforced outside the U.S.

  28. Ok, look... by Chewbacon · · Score: 1

    You can't copyright a fucking fruit, Steve.

    --
    Chewbacon
    The Bible is like Wikipedia: written by a bunch of people and verifiable by questionable sources.
    1. Re:Ok, look... by dacut · · Score: 1

      You can't copyright a fucking fruit, Steve. No, but you probably can copyright a fruit fucker.
  29. It's Look'n'feel over and over by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Apple wants to sue NYC for a logo they STOLE from The Beatles. Just like when they sued MS for a GUI they STOLE from Xerox.

    1. Re:It's Look'n'feel over and over by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Please stop trolling... Apple paid for both of the above...

    2. Re:It's Look'n'feel over and over by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Please stop trolling... Apple paid for both of the above...
      They only paid for the stolen logo AFTER they were forced to by a righteous lawsuit. They stole it first, hoping that nobody would realise it was a rip-off of someone else's hard work, then paid when they got caught. Now they have no right to complain when other people use similar logos.
  30. I assumed by Paktu · · Score: 1

    that the article was referring to Apple Records.

  31. so is Steve Jobs going to sue other guys... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...who knock up some chick and then refuse to pay child support and spend years denying that he fathered the child?

    That's why he was so determined to kill the Lisa computer: Lisa Brennen was the child that he fathered and tried to deny for years.

    Total scum.

    1. Re:so is Steve Jobs going to sue other guys... by DECS · · Score: 1

      Give him a break coward, he was probably on acid at the time.

      In any event, the Lisa computer was named after a different Apple engineer's daughter anyway.

      And seriously, Jobs would name a PC after his abandoned daughter and then seek to kill the PC? What a raving lunatic you are. Keep connecting the dots, genius.

  32. Could it be Apple is going Green? by kai6novice · · Score: 1

    Every company tech or not are going green. They all try to come up with some kind of product that related to green. If Apple were to come up with a green computer or gadget, they could easily just use "Green Apple" to market their new green product line. If that is the case, they definitely need to do something regarding this logo. So their future "Green Apple" line won't get mix up with this green NYC logo. Possible? Maybe..

    1. Re:Could it be Apple is going Green? by Actually,+I+do+RTFA · · Score: 1

      It may be possible, but certainly you don't think that's a justification, do you? They may want to infringe on NYC's mark in the future, so they sue now? That doesn't make much legal sense at all.

      --
      Your ad here. Ask me how!
  33. Re:WTF is wrong with slashdot? by ergean · · Score: 1

    It's the same in firefox 3, but not in firefox 2... go figure.

  34. Re:WTF is wrong with slashdot? by Urza9814 · · Score: 1

    What version of firefox? Works fine for me in both 2.0.0.13 and 3.0b5

  35. The differences between the logos: by argent · · Score: 4, Informative

    The apple logo is a solid apple with a bite out of its side, in a variety of color schemes (rainbow (original), red (early variant), black (on white paper), white (current logo), and blue (in the OS X title bar)). It has no stem. The leaf extends to the left. The bottom is rounded, and it is noticably "chubbier" than the NYC logo.

    The NYC logo is an outline of an apple, with no bite, and with the outline extended into a stylized infinity or possibly a "yin/yang" symbol, in green or white, with a stem and the leaf extending to the left. The bottom is a sharp indent, and the shape is slimmer than the Apple logo.

    The "stem" is a distinctive difference, it has never appeared in any Apple logo, and it has appeared in other NYC-related "big apple" artwork (for example the "Big Apple" sculptures that decorated NYC in 2004).

    Different colors, different shape, consistent with previous NYC "big Apple" icons and logos. The only difference is that the apple is more rounded and less "pear shaped", which is most likely simply due to the need to accommodate the yin/yang/infinity symbol.

    1. Re:The differences between the logos: by Typoboy · · Score: 1

      Rainbow's not the original, see here

    2. Re:The differences between the logos: by yabadabadooie · · Score: 1

      Apple computers although once small and in the corner of free enterprise and the little guys has of course become the big monster. Anyone using the word tunes in their business is harassed by them which is absurd and now New York City is on the bench because they are using an apple. I guess Apple now owns not only tunes but the fruit name Apple. Shame on you Apple Computers.

    3. Re:The differences between the logos: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Anyone using the word tunes in their business is harassed by them which is absurd and now New York City is on the bench because they are using an apple.

      Oh, crap! I'm the founder of AppleTunes, Inc.

    4. Re:The differences between the logos: by argent · · Score: 1

      The "Newton's Apple" logo isn't an earlier version of the same logo, it's a different logo altogether.

    5. Re:The differences between the logos: by Typoboy · · Score: 1

      That is true.

  36. Fucktards by cmacb · · Score: 1

    A rare case where no other term will quite do.

    In a perfect world, not only would Apple lose, but they would also lose their right to do business in New York, their stores would be confiscated and turned over to the homeless.

  37. [erratum] by argent · · Score: 1

    I wrote: The NYC logo is an outline of an apple, with no bite, and with the outline extended into a stylized infinity or possibly a "yin/yang" symbol, in green or white, with a stem and the leaf extending to the left.

    That should read: The NYC logo is an outline of an apple, with no bite, and with the outline extended into a stylized infinity or possibly a "yin/yang" symbol, in green or white, with a stem and the leaf extending to the right .

  38. Apple... really, c'mon by purpleraison · · Score: 1

    I must confess that as an avid Macintosh user/owner/fan, even I find it a bit over-the-top suing a non-profit organization of New York if the logo doesn't bear the distinctive aspects of the Apple logo (like the bite taken out of the right side of the apple).

    In fact, I would go so far as to say that Apple Records would have a bit more of a reason to object, but even still New York really is synonymous with the 'Big Apple', much in the same way that the Blue Crab is the logo for Maryland, and the other states with similar things.

    Additionally, I think the GreenNYC logo is actually much cooler than the Apple logo.

    --
    I am open source, and Linux baby!
  39. GreeNYC Doesn't Sell Computers by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 1

    Or sell downloaded music, or music players or anything else Apple markets under its logo.

    This suit is frivolous. Trademarks aren't vague references just to a corporation in a vacuum. They are the mark under which a mark holder markets its product, which is in a specific business sector, under which the holder registers the mark. The test of whether someone else is infringing the held mark is whether the other use would cause confusion to a consumer looking for the first mark holder's product, who would be confused into thinking that the other mark's product is the one they're looking for. There's no way someone looking for any of Apple's products would think that the GreeNYC offerings are what they were looking for from Apple.

    The trademark laws are very simple, clear, and probably the most sensible of all the intellectual property laws. There is no way that Apple's lawyers pressing this claim could possibly be unaware that they have no legitimate claim. They are just hassling a City government hoping to intimidate it.

    Well, they picked the wrong city. Our city will kick their corporation's ass. Besides, we've been using an apple as our logo for centuries before Apple ever put sandals on its feet.

    The court should not only immediately dismiss this frivolous suit, but it should sanction the lawyers, putting a "frivolous" mark in their lawyers' licenses. After a few of those, they should have their licenses shredded.

    And then recycled. I'm sure NYC would be glad to dispose of it for them.

    --

    --
    make install -not war

    1. Re:GreeNYC Doesn't Sell Computers by stormguard2099 · · Score: 1

      The International Business Times reported that GreeNYC's position is that the infinity apple symbol and the group's environmental approach were unique, a key word in the area of registered trademarks, and that there was no infringement. Apple has its own green initiative that uses their apple logo and also the word "greener" in the slogan.http://www.apple.com/environment/
      Whether NYCs project counts as copyright infringement I don't know, but I can imagine how two different green initiatives with apples for logos and with green in their names could confuse someone. (we have instructions on fucking packets of ketchup for god's sake!)
      As for the logos I honestly don't see the glaring similarities. A better man than I will have to make that call
      --
      http://greenobyl.com/ please.... think of the children!!
    2. Re:GreeNYC Doesn't Sell Computers by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 1

      NYC has been recycling with a "big apple" in the signage for 20 years or more. "Greener" is a dictionary word. At least 10 million people living here already know that the apple and "green" on the NYC promotions mean the City's programme, but you had to dig up some obscure programme (for which I thank you for the enlightenment). There is absolutely no case here for Apple - NYC has the case for infringement.

      And the logos aren't similar enough to confuse anyone. Except maybe Apple's lawyers.

      --

      --
      make install -not war

  40. Re:WTF is wrong with slashdot? by maskedbishounen · · Score: 2, Informative

    Mainly when the border is showing, the rounded corners aren't where they should be.

    Here's a screenshot comparing Opera 9.26's correct behavior with Firefox 3b5's.

    --
    "An infinite number of monkeys typing into GNU emacs would never make a good program."
  41. Who cares? by SoupIsGoodFood_42 · · Score: 1

    Is this even a surprise? Haven't we at Slashdot endured enough of these stories to know that lawyers have to be a little more trigger happy when it comes to trademark issues? I know it's still quite stupid, but I doubt this will go anywhere. And until it does, why even bother with it?

  42. Microsoftian! by Kylere · · Score: 1

    How very Microsoftian of Apple. Sucess in the computer industry seems to cause suicidally stupid business decisions. Vista, Gateway Country Stores, Apple getting silly over logo, etc.

  43. Big Bad Company by Salgat · · Score: 1

    And the microsoftification begins.

  44. Re:WTF is wrong with slashdot? by Urza9814 · · Score: 1

    Ah. For some reason my firefox 3b5 isn't showing _any_ rounded corners, so of course I didn't notice. lol. But yes, the gray does extend all the way up on mine as well.

  45. Re:WTF is wrong with slashdot? by cheater512 · · Score: 1

    He said that it was shitty. Not that it didnt work. ;)

  46. Dumbest lawsuit I've heard in awhile by pawnipt · · Score: 1

    This information is killing my brain cells! Next in line, apple farming companies across the globe! SUE SUE SUE!!!! "THE BIG APPLE" "WHAT DID YOU SAY MY MAC IS BIG??" "HUHH??" oh snap we're gunna sue!

    1. Re:Dumbest lawsuit I've heard in awhile by ktappe · · Score: 1

      They're not suing. Read the real article, not the incorrect summary. Oh, wait, that would deny you the chance to spout off loudly about something you didn't know anything about...

      --
      "We can categorically state we have not released man-eating badgers into the area." - UK military spokesman, July 2007
  47. Re:WTF is wrong with slashdot? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    For the record, it looks awful in Konqueror as well.

    Since when does the Slashdot-crowd support websites designing for specific browsers instead of writing standard-compliant code that is compatible with any sane browser? That it renders OK in Firefox is a lame excuse; the same excuse is used by people who write crap that only barely renders in Internet Explorer, and then it is rejected fervently (and rightfully so). Can we have a little consistency here?

  48. OP, RTFP. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Filed a challenge" IN NO WAY = "Filed a suit."

    lrn2legalterminology.

    http://www.wired.com/techbiz/it/news/2008/04/apple_vs_apple

  49. Plus they're not in the same industry... by Animaether · · Score: 1

    One is in computers / software / consumer electronics. The other is... well, it's a city.. and they're using it as a logo for a city and community effort to make NYC greener.

    I'm sorry, but no - Apple's trademarked logo does not stand to be diluted from this any more than most of the other apple logos out there.

    That said, I'm sure their lawyers feel differently and are erring on the safe side; defending their logo just-in-case... if they don't, they're screwed anyway. If they do.. at the most they're out some cash for the claims/judgment/etc. Just sad that they feel the need to feel differently in the first place.

  50. There may be differences... by Derek+Loev · · Score: 1

    but when I see the greenNYC logo I immediately think of Apple. I don't understand any of the legalities of this situation but Apple is a company that has always been very strong on branding and greenNYC will be a substantially public logo that from Apple's point of view could jeopardize their image.

  51. Albert Heijn should sue Apple by Burlador · · Score: 1

    The logo of the Dutch supermarket chain Albert Heijn looks as similar to Apple's as the GreeNYC one. They should sue Apple.

  52. Still, it's silly by rastoboy29 · · Score: 1

    This is what happens when you let the lawyers make the decisions.  Never, ever let the lawyers make the decisions--they rarely have a strong grasp on reality.  Take their advice, sure, but then use some judgement.  There was no need for Apple to be a baddie actor, here.

  53. Next, God Sues Apple for.... by efuseekay · · Score: 1

    infringing on His trademark. All proceeds go to the Adam + Eve divorce fund.

    --
    Mode (3) smart-aleck mode. Press * to return to main menu.
  54. Re:WTF is wrong with slashdot? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The point of your parent post was that slashdot *shouldn't* write non-compliment CSS to fix IE's failures to render even basic CSS correctly. The parent post wasn't aware that it looked crappy in Konqueror as well, or you might have a point. But they didn't say "it looks fine in firefox, get firefox." They said "it isn't slashdot's fault IE fails to render CSS, try one of these three other browsers that typically render CSS correctly."

    Of course, my personal opinion looking at it in firefox is that it probably renders as intended in IE, Konqueror, and firefox. It's just a crappy design. Though not as bad as the "idle" theme, of course.

  55. OmG by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Doesn't steve jobs have anything better 2 do than fucking harass people who r trying 2 do good? fuck him

  56. Mod parent up! by itomato · · Score: 1

    This is an extremely good point!

    Apple takes number one music retailer position, and turns around and sues a "feel-good", not-for-profit organization for the use of the image of an Apple.

    Apple Computer gave Apple Records the finger of this thing for years. What gives? This is an uncharacteristic (read "Microsoft-style") go-for-the-throat business maneuver.

    1. Re:Mod parent up! by DECS · · Score: 0, Troll

      Apple and the Apple Corps were arguing over whether Apple could sell any PCs that had music capabilities, which was hardly an infringement of the music label's business, since it didn't sell any computer hardware or music gear.

      Apple is acting here to stop a logo of an abstract apple outline logo that does look fleetingly similar. It's protecting a trademark logo. If it did not, it could eventually lose its rights to stop others from using the Apple name and logo in clearly infringing icons and brand names.

      Your righteous indignation here is not a reaction to the event, but an opportunity you're taking to link up a company working to protect its trademarks with a company that has exercised its 20 year monopoly to cheat customers, delay the state of the art in technology, destroy competitors and prevent competing products from reaching the market, and flout the court's consent decrees it agreed to obey. There is no relation of any kind. Microsoft is criminal, Apple's lawyers are mildly irritating.

  57. Computers vs commuters by Waccoon · · Score: 1

    If Apple hadn't balked, nobody would have noticed. There's only one bad Apple, here.

    God forbid NYC would hold some kind of massive easter-egg hunt and make the logo temporarily multi-colored. How would Apple react to "infringement" on a logo that has been retired?

  58. Is Apple In The City Business? by Nom+du+Keyboard · · Score: 1
    Is Apple Computer in the City business?

    They're clearly not in the music producing business, which is why Apple Computer and Apple Music have coexisted once Apple Computer quit trying to assert that they were the only Apple in the world. Hasn't The Big Apple been around longer than Apple Computer? So unless Apple is suddenly in the City Business (along with the computer, iPod, and iPhone businesses) as a competitor, it should simply go away and shut up!

    --
    "It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
    1. Re:Is Apple In The City Business? by DECS · · Score: 1

      Apple's logo challenge isn't about confusing businesses together, it's about complaining that logo looks similar to its own to prevent the loss or erosion of its trademarks.

      Your comment that the conflict between Apple Computer and "Apple Music" was based on Apple "trying to assert that they were the only Apple in the world" betrays a gross ignorance of that situation. It was Apple Corps that repeatedly sued Apple and extorted millions of dollars over the use of the word apple in an unrelated business.

      Similarly, this has nothing to do with the Big Apple slogan, as Apple has never challenged NYC over the use of that.

      Similarly, your signature that liberals vote for feel good candidates while conservatives solve problems fails to account for why the Republicans like to hide behind idiot actors like Ronald Reagan and Arnold Schwarzenegger and the vacuous dim bulb of business failures like President Bush, while failing to do anything to solve real problems, and instead creating new ones for Democrats to fix.

      Reagan supplied the chemical WMDs to Sadam he used to kill Iraqi minorities. Bush II then attacked Iraq for being the dictator the right installed him to be against Iran, at tremendous expense to the country, and without planning any sort of exit strategy. Conservatives have been spending wildly with no accounting, terrorizing citizens, ripping up the Constitution, and converting the US from leader of the world into a fundamentalist group of nuts promoting an international inquisition and Holy Land crusade.

      Clearly, you are chuck full of nuts, and can't manage to say anything that isn't bullshit.

  59. One word that describes the future of this problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Applesauce.

  60. not a smart move by suck_burners_rice · · Score: 1

    I can't believe Apple would make such an absurd move. Didn't they think one moment ahead and realize then when filing a suit, the other side would probably fight back? Now there is some possibility (no matter how small) that Apple might lose their logo and the brand recognition associated with it. The bigger problem here is that they're not fighting a company, but a government. Governments by definition have an infinite amount of money to use in legal fights. Not enough money? Add some new tax and voila! Enough money. Governments also never forget. Piss off a government and they'll hound you forever, until you're dead and gone. So Apple can't just keep filing motion after motion to drag the case out forever until the other side loses. In fact, it's quite the contrary. Chances are that the case will be thrown out of court, or that Apple will somehow come out the loser in this one, even if New York loses as well. This is a lose-lose situation. Not good. Now why can't New York use a logo that is a combination of a big huge apple with a New York skyline, complete with WTC, and in so doing, completely avoid this meaningless fight? And speaking of the WTC, why don't they build a new one, with triple towers, identical to the original two, but ten floors higher? And a big huge middle finger facing the Middle East.

    --
    McCain/Palin '08. Now THAT's hope and change!
  61. Re:NYC may have same case as Beatles? by lpq · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Wasn't there a dispute about Apple's logo vs. the apple logo used by the Beatles?

    Would New York's logo possibly be closer to the Beatle's logo?

    Wasn't the eventual outcome that there was no trademark confusion between Apple and Beatles's apple use because they were in different fields at the time (computers vs. music). Of course with the iTunes store, that issue has come up again...

    But for NYC vs. Apple, wouldn't similar principles apply -- i.e. they are separate entities that are not likely to be confused?

    Hasn't an apple been used in NYC logo-material since before Apple-Computers even existed?

  62. Think DUMB by dontmakemethink · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Firstly, who the hell is going to mistake the GreeNYC logo to represent Apple, or vice versa? Apple has no more claim to the use of apples in commercial logos than Apple Records does, who pre-existed Apple Inc by over a decade (the label for The Beatles).

    Ironically, Apple Records has filed numerous trademark/copyright infringment suits against Apple Inc, and as a result Apple Inc stayed out of the music industry entirely, even long after Macintosh became the prevalent computer platform used in recording studios in the early 90's. Obviously that's no longer the case, since Apple introduced iTunes in 2001, and numerous infringement suits ensued.

    I imagine Apple Inc is just trying to head off any possible interference by any logo ressembling an apple, and is bullying GreeNYC into a strict trademark agreement. Apple Inc learned their lesson when they spent millions in legal fees to gain the position they have in the music industry today. But somehow I doubt Apple has to worry about GreeNYC making computers!

    The suit is very inconsistent with Apple's public image, especially to attack a non-profit environmental organization in today's political climate (pardon the pun). And they sure could have picked a smaller consumer base to pick on! How many computer owners do you figure are in the NYC metro area?! 50 million?

    --

    War as we knew it was obsolete
    Nothing could beat complete denial
    - Emily Haines
    1. Re:Think DUMB by Rexdude · · Score: 1

      Since when have lawyers used their brains? Here's the most ridiculous example of so called trademark infringement.
      To summarize-There's a Star Wars character called Nomi Sunrider, that was created at some point in the 80s. Jeep, the vehicle manufacturer, sued them for trademark infringment because they make a line of soft top vehicles called Sunrider !!
      How is anyone ever going to confuse a vehicle with a fictional character from Star Wars?
      But guess what? Jeep won the case, and so Lucas Arts was unable to use the same character in KOTOR 1 and 2.

      --
      "..One hosts to look them up, one DNS to find them, and in the darkness BIND them."
  63. Old frickin news by TwoScoopsOfPig · · Score: 1

    This shit was on several other blogs about three days ago - hell, I even covered it for The Daily Cougar (University of Houston's newspaper)

    --
    #include <disclaimer.h>
    #include <beer.h>
  64. To the original submitter of this article -- by Ignis+Fatuusz · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Please cite a reliable source that says Apple has 'filed suit' against anyone regarding this matter. You can't? I didn't think so. Apple has filed a formal opposition to a trademark application, which it must do in order to actively defend its trademark. Whether it's successful or not is irrelevant. Engadget explains the issue in detail here: http://www.engadget.com/2008/04/03/apple-vs-nyc-whats-really-going-on/ I'm not sure what disappoints me more - the sensationalist tone of the submitted piece, or the overwhelming knee-jerk reaction of folks jumping on Apple for something they didn't actually do.

  65. need better trademark definition by OrangeTide · · Score: 1

    Like Apple should trademark apples with a bite out of them (especially on the right hand side). Rather than every possible form of a fruit that has existed long before Steve Jobs.

    --
    “Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
  66. FWIW - I don't think you're an asshole. by Whiney+Mac+Fanboy · · Score: 1

    I'm not being nice; I think you're an asshole.

    FWIW - I don't think you're an asshole.

    You're just not particularly intelligent & besotted with a company that's almost certainly embarrassed by your fawning sycophancy.

    --
    There are shills on slashdot. Apparently, I'm one of them.
    1. Re:FWIW - I don't think you're an asshole. by Whiney+Mac+Fanboy · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      That's a lot of big words.

      Not really, no.

      I don't need to defend my intelligence

      ORLY? You do seem to keep attempting to tho' - in fact, I'm sure you'll reply to this post....

      --
      There are shills on slashdot. Apparently, I'm one of them.
  67. Logos should be not based on everyday objects by IAmAI · · Score: 1

    Creating a trademark and a brand based around an every day object is a nice ploy for broadening the scope of infringement claims: they can sue anyone who makes a logo with an apple in it. I don't think it should be allowed; companies should come up with original names and logos, thus keeping the scope for infringement claims at a fair degree, and reducing the likelihood of accidental infringement. The downside is logo designers will need greater imagination.

  68. Homosexuals by Circlotron · · Score: 1

    Why isn't the homosexual community suing Apple over the use of a rainbow of sorts in the Apple logo? Or is that a marketing ploy of theirs?

  69. Re:WTF is wrong with slashdot? by Haeleth · · Score: 1

    For the record, it looks awful in Konqueror as well.

    Since when does the Slashdot-crowd support websites designing for specific browsers instead of writing standard-compliant code that is compatible with any sane browser? That it renders OK in Firefox is a lame excuse...
    For the record, it looks identical in Konqueror to the way it looks in Firefox.

    Just thought you might like to know.
  70. Nothing alike?? by GauteL · · Score: 1

    Come on. Saying they are nothing alike is just as biased as saying they are identical.

    In particular the leaf gives immediate associations with Apple Computers. Just because it is mirrored to extend to the left instead of the right doesn't mean it isn't inspired by the Apple logo. The leaf is drop shaped, extending approximately 45 degrees and it is even detached from the body of the apple, just like in the Apple logo.

    The leaf is completely unnecessary to make it look like an apple, and it was completely unnecessary to make the leaf detached from the shape of the body (hell, no real apple actually looks like that)

    Personally I don't agree with Apple in this case, but it should be easy enough to see their point. The graphical artist (probably out of laziness) made some design decisions that area clearly inspired by the Apple logo.

  71. DUUH! Apple? by Rockin'Robert · · Score: 0

    Hasn't anyone heard of PRIOR USE?

    Big Apple, Apple of My Eye, Apples and Oranges, Apple Jack and juice,
    lest we ever forget Eve and the Creation Theory and on anon.
    Are they gonna sue the churches, the bible and then God almighty?

    Oh, I forgot.
    This is /.
    Everybody knows there was NO HISTORY BEFORE THE INTERNET.
    RR

  72. haha by thegnu · · Score: 1

    You know what I would claim next? I would claim that you are an asshat sucking Steve Job's dick at the moment. Now go to the court and prove its wrong, asshole. What we have here is a non-story that only gained notoriety because of the many Apple-haters about. And it, ironically, proves their existence by its persistence and prevalence across so many sites and blogs today.

    Bravo!
    Brrrrrrraaa-VOOOO
    Bravo!
    --
    Please stop stalking me, bro.
  73. Right, nobody but apple ever did that. by argent · · Score: 1

    The graphical artist (probably out of laziness) made some design decisions that area clearly inspired by the Apple logo.

    Right, nobody but apple ever did that.

    1. Re:Right, nobody but apple ever did that. by gnasher719 · · Score: 1

      Quite interesting. Five links to images of apples that each are much less similar in shape to the Apple logo than the New York logo. If the designers had taken any of these apples as their initial inspiration (for example the stock photo and stock clipart which are likely cheap to buy), the result would have looked nothing like the Apple logo.

    2. Re:Right, nobody but apple ever did that. by argent · · Score: 1

      Five links to images of apples that each are much less similar in shape to the Apple logo than the New York logo.

      All those apples had the "unnecessary" leaf that was allegedly the proof that the apple was lifted from Apple.

    3. Re:Right, nobody but apple ever did that. by GauteL · · Score: 1

      1. I can't see if any of these apples are company logos. They look more like photographs or clip art to me.

      2. Only the first one of these is a two-dimensional depiction of an apple like the Apple logo. All the others are either photographs or drawn to look like actual apples.

      3. The leaf used in the only image slightly resembling Apple Computers logo is not drop shaped and it is not a single colour.

      In fact, I question if you even understand this issue at all if you include photographs of apples as some kind of argument. Nobody said that Apple has a monopoly on pictures of apples.

      The question is simple: should another company be allowed to trade mark a two-dimensional drawn, "non-natural looking" outline of an apple with a single colour, non attached, drop shaped leaf extending 45 degrees from the stem, as their company logo?

      As someone else here said, all of the images you included are much less similar than the NYC and Apple logos in question.

    4. Re:Right, nobody but apple ever did that. by GauteL · · Score: 1

      1. None of those images where a company or product logo. This makes them irrelevant for this dicussion.

      2. I never said the apple was "lifted" from Apple. I said it was inspired.

      Of course apples have leaves, but it unnecessary to add a leaf to a two-dimensional drawing of an apple to make it look like an apple. This is clearly the case, remove the leaf and everyone will still see it is an apple.

      Furthermore, NYC added a drop-shaped single colour leaf extending approximately 45 degrees from the stem. This was an unnecessary design decision that only served to make the logo look more like the Apple computer logo.

      As a graphical artist it is virtually impossible that he was unaware of the Apple logo. In fact, it is quite likely that he was staring at an Apple logo on the very computer and screen he was designing the logo on.

      He could have made a myriad of design choices that would make the logo look nothing like the Apple computer logo. People would not necessarily think of Apple computer when shown a picture of an Apple, but if shown the picture of the NYC logo, it is quite likely they would.

    5. Re:Right, nobody but apple ever did that. by argent · · Score: 1

      Of course apples have leaves, but it unnecessary to add a leaf to a two-dimensional drawing of an apple to make it look like an apple.

      That doesn't mean that putting the leaf there is a sign that they got the idea from Apple. That's where a real apple really does have a leaf, and that's where a lot of other artists have put leaves when they were creating pictures and objects depicting apples.

      NYC added a drop-shaped single colour leaf extending approximately 45 degrees from the stem.

      Apple's leaf isn't drop-shaped, it's lentil-shaped.

      He could have made a myriad of design choices that would make the logo look nothing like the Apple computer logo.

      He or she did. I listed several, YOU just came up with another (the leaf is a different shape).

      The first page in Google Images search for "stylized apple" has this. Make that a single color and simplify it to make it suitable for embroidery, and it'd look more like the Apple logo than the NYC one: it's fatter and has a more tapered bottom instead of the NYC's more symmetrical outline.

      NYC's logo has a different shape, it's a color that Apple doesn't seem to have used (possibly because Apple Records' logo was green), it's got a different shaped leaf, a stem, NO BITE, and so on. About the only thing they could have done would be to make the apple asymmetrical, but then by your logic they'd be trespassing on Applebee's turf.

      Hmm, you know, Applebee's is looking a bit suspicious anyway. Lentil-shape detached leaf, pointing in the same direction as Apple's, and no stem.

    6. Re:Right, nobody but apple ever did that. by GauteL · · Score: 1

      "Apple's leaf isn't drop-shaped, it's lentil-shaped."

      Po-tay-to, po-ta-to. This is completely irrelevant semantics.

      "He or she did. I listed several, YOU just came up with another (the leaf is a different shape)."

      The leaf has a miniscule difference in shape, and to give you another ridiculous argument; the angle at which it extends (non-attached) from the leaf is probably 2-3 grades different. Neither of these make any bit of difference. If the artist had actually copied the shape and angle of the leaf so it was exactly the same, this would have been an open and shut case.

      The other differences you list are clearly enough to stop it being identical but that was never the argument.

      When you are saying "they are nothing alike" and pushing this argument, what you are essentially doing is acting like a dictator about what other people are to think about this logo. There is plenty of similarity in the logo for many people to get associations with Apple computers and there isn't a damn thing you can do about it. If they were nothing alike, we wouldn't even be having this discussion.

  74. Dude, get it straight... by argent · · Score: 1

    or the overwhelming knee-jerk reaction of folks jumping on Apple for something they didn't actually do.

    I'm not jumping on Apple, I'm jumping on the people who are automatically defending what they think Apple has done, presumably because it's Apple.

    1. Re:Dude, get it straight... by Scudsucker · · Score: 1

      I'm not jumping on Apple, I'm jumping on the people who are automatically defending what they think Apple has done, presumably because it's Apple.

      And don't be surprised when somebody jumps on you for automatically jumping on Apple, just because it's Apple and you think they've done something.

  75. Different industries, different slogans and logos by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Wouldn't NYC win, due to the fact that Apple's logo is in a different industry, and it's not carved the same.

    I can't see where Apple Computer, Inc. would be threatened by NYC's apple logo.

  76. Borrowers and Lenders by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 1

    The leaf is completely unnecessary to make it look like an apple, and it was completely unnecessary to make the leaf detached from the shape of the body (hell, no real apple actually looks like that)

    I agree, it all hinges on the leaf. If somebody knows about a stylized detached leaf like Apple's that predates the 1976 Apple logo, please post here to disprove this idea.

    On the other hand, I bet the Apple logo borrowed from previous designs.

    --
    My God, it's Full of Source!
    OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
  77. Overreact, much? by Stu+Charlton · · Score: 1

    IN a perfect world? Really.

    Apple is in a trademark dispute. It happens. It's part of the system. In a perfect world, you'd understand that, and wouldn't troll forums in a vain attempt to "stick it to the man"....

    --
    -Stu
    1. Re:Overreact, much? by cmacb · · Score: 1

      I reserve the right to overreact whenever companies choose ordinary English language words as names for their companies or products and then expect the rest of us to stop using those words. "Windows", "Office", and "Apple" are three great examples of companies getting to big for their britches when it comes to product names.

      New York has been called the Big Apple since before Steve Jobs was sperm and egg:

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Apple

      The Beatles had used the word, but always as "Apple Records". You almost never heard the record label referred to as just "Apple" except in the second or third use of the term in an article on the subject.

      Likewise, "Apple Computer" wasn't too offensive when the company was still called that.

      I am a supporter of the company, except when they do incredibly stupid things, which seems to be a more frequent occurrence as of late.

      The last thing they need to have happen is to have themselves enter the consumer psyche as "Son of Microsoft", the new schoolyard bully. But that seems to be exactly where they are going. Maybe Steve should go have a talk with the other Steve (now that would be a good lawsuit!) about how hard it is to get your reputation back. Short answer: You can't. Better to protect the one you have while it is good.

      And before you point it out: I know the dispute is over a logo, and not the name, but that is a side effect. If I name my snazzy new software "Car" it is totally irrational to expect GM and Toyota to stop using pictures of automobiles in their advertising. By picking a common name for your company or product you are so to speak building on the shoulders of giants, or one might invoke the term "prior art". If you want to do that, fine. But others should have just as much right to use that name (including representative logos) as you do. To me that is just common sense. I suspect it is to most people too.

  78. Apple Computer VS Cupertino Orchard by KnowledgeEngine · · Score: 2, Funny

    I guess you all forgot about the landmark case in the 90's. When Jobs first got back on at apple he proceded to sue Sunny Valley Apple Orchard in Cupertino's suburbs. There's even a video of the court procedings http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0 I am not shocked in the least to see this from them, given their past behaviour. Towards the end of the video the orchard owner is asking "But what shall I call my fruit" to which Jobs said he could care less, just don't call them apples. That is how the grape flavored apples got started http://www.grapplefruits.com/

  79. Apple Computer VS Local Orchard by KnowledgeEngine · · Score: 1

    I guess you all forgot about the landmark case in the 90's. When Jobs first got back on at apple he proceded to sue Sunny Valley Apple Orchard in Cupertino's suburbs. There's even a video of the court procedings http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0 [youtube.com] I am not shocked in the least to see this from them, given their past behaviour. Towards the end of the video the orchard owner is asking "But what shall I call my fruit" to which Jobs said he could care less, just don't call them apples. That is how the grape flavored apples got started http://www.grapplefruits.com/ [grapplefruits.com]

  80. In Related Real News... by MojoStan · · Score: 1
    A nine-year-old girl named Shea O'Gorman wrote a hand-written letter to Steve Jobs suggesting ideas for improving her beloved iPod Nano, including adding onscreen lyrics so people can sing along.

    Three months later, she gets back a letter from Mark Aaker, Senior Council of Apple's Law Department, telling the third-grader that Apple doesn;t accept unsolicited ideas, so she should not send them her suggestions and if she wants to know why, she could read their legal policy posted on the Internet.

    The girl's mother said, "She was very upset, and kinda threw the letter up in the air and ran in her room and slammed her door."

    --
    TO START
    PRESS ANY KEY

    Where's the 'ANY' key? I see Esk, Kitarl, and Pig-Up...

  81. I'm sure NYC would be glad to dispose them.." by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Do you mean the lawyers? I can picture something involving cement overshoes and the East River...

    Mack the Knife Rulz!

    1. Re:I'm sure NYC would be glad to dispose them.." by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 1

      Well, I didn't mean "depose" the lawyers ;).

      --

      --
      make install -not war

  82. Registered Trademark Needed At All? by buckhead_buddy · · Score: 1

    So the NYC green group wants to get their message out as widely as possible about reducing, reusing, and recycling. Why does it need a registered trademark?

    Oh right, it's a revenue stream which they can sell their endorsement to others and say "The NYC Green group approves of this TV set." Once you've paid NYC, you can market your products with our endorsement. You don't think NYC is making a cool apple-like logo precisely because it's a popular brand? I can't wait to go into Beast Buy and get my Green Zune ... with an Apple logo on it. Or get a 7inch Windows XP EEE PC ... with an Apple logo on it.

    If this was just about branding their billboards with a cute image to promote green habits, the chance of brand confusion would be minimal. But if this wasn't about brand co-promotion, advertising and selling endorsements, NYC wouldn't need a registered trademark for their green campaign in the first place.

  83. Have a look at this ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... logo.

  84. FIX THE SUMMARY by argent · · Score: 1

    The summary of this article is wrong. Apple has not filed suit, Apple has filed an objection. There is a difference!

  85. A big "in-joke"? by bluemetal · · Score: 1

    Maybe this is just the way large corporations with iconic logos have fun. Like, they try and one-up each other by seeing who can file the most inane lawsuit. Big money requires expensive fun.