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SMS 4x More Expensive Than Data From Hubble

paradoxSpirit writes "Physorg has a paper comparing the cost of text messaging versus the cost of getting data from Hubble Space Telescope. From the article: 'The maximum size for a text message is 160 characters, which takes 140 bytes because there are only 7 bits per character in the text messaging system, and we assume the average price for a text message is 5p. There are 1,048,576 bytes in a megabyte, so that's 1 million/140 = 7490 text messages to transmit one megabyte. At 5p each, that's £374.49 [$732.95] per MB — or about 4.4 times more expensive than the 'most pessimistic' estimate for Hubble Space Telescope transmission costs." "Hubble is by no means a cheap mission — but the mobile phone text costs were pretty astronomical!""

410 comments

  1. Math is HARD by LMacG · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    "160 characters, which takes 140 bytes because there are only 7 bits per character in the text messaging system,..."

    WTF?

    Also, they don't seem to account for any headers or other transmission overhead? Where'd these guys come from, the Verizon School of Mathematics?

    --
    Slightly disreputable, albeit gregarious
    1. Re:Math is HARD by PalmKiller · · Score: 1

      I think hes referring to the start/stop bits and other data framing overhead.

    2. Re:Math is HARD by Crazy+Man+on+Fire · · Score: 4, Informative

      160 characters * (7 bits/character) * (1 byte/8 bits) = 140 bytes

    3. Re:Math is HARD by Hyppy · · Score: 5, Informative

      TFA is talking about the transfer of data, not how many little bits are actually involved in the transaction. Headers and transmission overhead are not data. If you downloaded a CD ISO, you would not say that you downloaded 946MB and include "overhead" in your figure. Did you include your name and the class number in the word count for your papers in college?

    4. Re:Math is HARD by Art+Popp · · Score: 4, Interesting

      First off, they're kinda right for the wrong reasons.

      The "delivered" portion of the short message service (SMS) message is 140 characters and they do combine the unused 8th bits to yield 160 7 bit ascii characters per message. I don't know how much of the hubble's overhead was included in the article's 8.85 GBP per megabyte.

      While greed is always a factor with big corporations, many of the charges put in place have primary purpose of keeping capacity in check. While the marketing folk at big telecomm corporations love the word "unlimited" it creates nightmares for the engineering folk who find that their SS7 network completely congested. They investitage and find that while it was designed to carry 30 SMSs per day for the 30 million subscribers for which it was scaled is now at it's limit because of an open source project that breaks up TCP packets and transmits them over SMS and allows people to download pr0n to their restrictive countries over SMS.

      My favorite carrier offers unlimited texting for $20 per month. The way his daughters send messages he's getting them at 1/4 cent apiece.

      So, slightly cheaper than from the Hubble! Score!

    5. Re:Math is HARD by Lennie · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It doesn't matter, most textmessages are not 160 characters anyway.

      --
      New things are always on the horizon
    6. Re:Math is HARD by LMacG · · Score: 5, Funny

      > Did you include your name and the class number in the word count for your papers in college?

      Hell yes! Month day and year, too.

      --
      Slightly disreputable, albeit gregarious
    7. Re:Math is HARD by Lumenary7204 · · Score: 1

      They're calculating the cost of the *human-readable* data that's actually being used by a person.

      Jo Average doesn't care how much header, routing, or other packet overhead is transmitted along with his/her message. They only care about what they can actually type and read on screen...

      If it costs US $0.05 (US 5 cents) per message, then he/she is still paying US $0.0003125 (US 0.03125 cents) per human-readable character, when using all 160 characters.

    8. Re:Math is HARD by punkass · · Score: 4, Funny

      "On this most glorious Twelfth Day of May, Year of Our Lord Two Thousand and Eight"

      --
      "Nobody owns the fucking words man." - James Dean
    9. Re:Math is HARD by morgan_greywolf · · Score: 1

      Parity? Stop bits? Any error correction? Compression?

      That just counts the actual data usage and does not account for any overhead.

    10. Re:Math is HARD by Hyppy · · Score: 1

      "For The Class ENC2401, or English Composition Of The Level Twenty-Four Hundred One, Lectured By The Great And Renowned Professor Of Grammatical Fascism, Richard Dung"

    11. Re:Math is HARD by theeddie55 · · Score: 2, Funny

      It doesn't matter, most textmessages are not 160 characters anyway.
      mine are... I like to get my moneys worth.
    12. Re:Math is HARD by calebt3 · · Score: 1

      Compression? 1. Compression would mean less bits transmitted, therefore lower cost.

      2. It's pretty hard to compress "lol" and "l8r".
    13. Re:Math is HARD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      TFA is talking about the transfer of data, not how many little bits are actually involved in the transaction. Headers and transmission overhead are not data. If you downloaded a CD ISO, you would not say that you downloaded 946MB and include "overhead" in your figure.

      Did you include your name and the class number in the word count for your papers in college? Hell ..the data is still being stuffed through the pipe isn't it ? and pipe don't give a heck if its a Header or data . transmission cost is same . thats why we send CRC in transmission.

      this is surely a verizon sponsored research
    14. Re:Math is HARD by Eudial · · Score: 1

      "On this most glorious Twelfth Day of May, Year of Our Lord Two Thousand and Eight" And that's as many as twenty hundreds and eight: one hundred, two hundred, three hundred, four hundred, five hundred, six hundred, seven hundred, eight hundred, nine hundred, ten hundred, eleven hundred, twelve hundred, thirteen hundred, fourteen hundred, fifteen hundred, sixteen hundred, seventeen hundred, eighteen hundred, nineteen hundred, twenty hundred and eight: That's one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, and eight years. In one hundred, there is as many as ten tens, one ten, two tens, three tens, four tens, five tens, six tens, seven tens, eight tens, nine tens, ten tens. Each ten contains ten ones: one one, two ones, three ones, four ones, five ones, six ones, seven ones, eight ones, nine ones, ten ones.

      There is much to learn about writing essays in sesame street.
      --
      GAAH! MY PRINTER IS ON FIRE!!! PUT IT OUT! PUT IT OUT!
    15. Re:Math is HARD by phantomfive · · Score: 3, Funny

      Where'd these guys come from, the Verizon School of Mathematics If it were the Verizon school of mathematics, they would charge you for the whole 8 bits (even if it's just seven per character), plus the overhead, plus extra for the line noise.
      --
      Qxe4
    16. Re:Math is HARD by praxis · · Score: 2, Funny

      "mine are... I like to get my moneys worth" (sic on the moneys) is not 160 characters!

    17. Re:Math is HARD by gid · · Score: 3, Funny

      yeah, but it's easy to compress "hahahahahahahhahahahaha"

    18. Re:Math is HARD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I recall using some of the middle names that I'd otherwise skip, as well:

      by Sergio Julio Hernandez de Jesus de Santa Maria DaSilva Silva Suarez Jr. the Third.

    19. Re:Math is HARD by JustOK · · Score: 1

      Did you include your name and the class number in the word count for your papers in college? uh, yeah, plus the page numbers counted too.
      --
      rewriting history since 2109
    20. Re:Math is HARD by JustOK · · Score: 1

      "For The Class ENC2401, or English Composition Of The Level Twenty-Four Hundred One, Lectured By The Great And Renowned Professor Of Grammatical Fascism, THE ONE AND ONLY Richard Dung" That woulda gottn u a a
      --
      rewriting history since 2109
    21. Re:Math is HARD by harry666t · · Score: 1

      But close :P 154 with sig and quote :P

    22. Re:Math is HARD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Is that anything like four tens?

    23. Re:Math is HARD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Are you sure they use SS7 (which is a signaling network for the telephone switches) to carry SMS?

    24. Re:Math is HARD by Sique · · Score: 3, Informative

      Not exactly. We are talking purely payload, and the payload of an SMS is 1120 bit. We don't care about ethernet frames occuring while sending the SMS within the provider network, we don't care about traffic due to the database requests to find the actual location of the target mobile phone, we just want to know: Here we have a certain amount of information, expressed in a certain amount of bits. How much would it cost to transfer it from point A to point B via system S?

      --
      .sig: Sique *sigh*
    25. Re:Math is HARD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "XD"

    26. Re:Math is HARD by bishiraver · · Score: 3, Informative

      They use the call notification signal (the signal that tells your cellphone there's an incoming call and who it's from) to transmit the SMS in pretty direct binary. There's a start and stop code so that your phone doesn't actually ring like it's a regular phonecall.

    27. Re:Math is HARD by Sentry21 · · Score: 1

      lol omg 2rite! kthx

    28. Re:Math is HARD by Luyseyal · · Score: 3, Interesting

      While greed is always a factor with big corporations, many of the charges put in place have primary purpose of keeping capacity in check. While the marketing folk at big telecomm corporations love the word "unlimited" it creates nightmares for the engineering folk who find that their SS7 network completely congested. They investitage and find that while it was designed to carry 30 SMSs per day for the 30 million subscribers for which it was scaled is now at it's limit because of an open source project that breaks up TCP packets and transmits them over SMS and allows people to download pr0n to their restrictive countries over SMS.

      Do you have a URL for an article that states that the SMS network is so overwhelmed with text messages that all non-unlimited (limited) customers must subsidize their unlimited brethren at an incredible mark-up?

      'Cause, really, I think it makes far more sense that carriers abuse their captive audience with outrageous pricing of extremely inexpensive commodity SMS service. But I've been wrong before.

      Cheers,
      -l

      --
      Help cure AIDS, cancer, and more. Donate your unused computer time to worldcommunitygrid.org. Join Team Slashdot!
    29. Re:Math is HARD by __aaxwdb6741 · · Score: 5, Funny

      You, sir, must have a degree in advanced compression algorithms.

    30. Re:Math is HARD by theeddie55 · · Score: 2, Funny

      True, and if I were posting on slashdot via sms I'd have waited until I had more to say. And to correct my typo, I like to get my money's worth. That's 160 char

    31. Re:Math is HARD by yabos · · Score: 1

      So how much data do you think headers and overhead actually is comparatively? It's still extremely expensive.

    32. Re:Math is HARD by theeddie55 · · Score: 2, Funny

      acters.

    33. Re:Math is HARD by Prof.Phreak · · Score: 1

      Maybe they're routing the packets through Hubble?

      --

      "If anything can go wrong, it will." - Murphy

    34. Re:Math is HARD by frizop · · Score: 1

      He's also not considering that this is sometimes stored in a DB for 4-8 hours unless the message is delivered immediately. You can safely assume that if the receiving end of any data transmission is, well receiving that the data need not be stored locally.

      I however, do not think this is justification to the overall cost.

    35. Re:Math is HARD by Thundersnatch · · Score: 2, Funny

      On this most glorious Twelfth Day of May, Year of Our Lord Two Thousand and Eight

      I went to a Catholic University, you insensitive clod!

    36. Re:Math is HARD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Absolutely.

      A very accessible tutorial can be found here:

      http://www.funsms.net/sms_tutorial.htm

      And of course the most succinct summary is found at Wikipedia:

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_message_service

    37. Re:Math is HARD by moosesocks · · Score: 1

      My favorite carrier offers unlimited texting for $20 per month. The way his daughters send messages he's getting them at 1/4 cent apiece. Your daughters send 267 messages/day?
      --
      -- If you try to fail and succeed, which have you done? - Uli's moose
    38. Re:Math is HARD by beckerist · · Score: 1


      I see one nerd...two nerds...three nerds...fou...ah fuck it, AH, AH AH AH AH!!!
      </the_count>

      ...did you just say "Kremit?"

    39. Re:Math is HARD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, but you and TFA forgot the metadata.

    40. Re:Math is HARD by maxwell+demon · · Score: 2, Funny

      On this most glorious Twelfth Day of May, Year of Our Lord Two Thousand and Eight

      I went to a Catholic University, you insensitive clod!

      Ok: Ad diem gloriosum duodecimus Martii, anno domini duo mille et octem

      (I hope my latin isn't too wrong ...)
      --
      The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
    41. Re:Math is HARD by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 2, Funny

      acters. That'll be 20 cents please. We appreciate your business!
      --

      "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

    42. Re:Math is HARD by BarryJacobsen · · Score: 3, Informative

      Each of my little sisters (one is 12 other is 14) sends over 7,000 messages a month, minimum. That's 233 per day from each. They live in a small town of roughly 1,200 people - there's only 30 kids in their class. I can only imagine how large that number would be if they went to a larger school. Unlimited text messaging keeps my parents out of the poor house.

    43. Re:Math is HARD by Thundersnatch · · Score: 2, Funny

      I was an engineer. What is this "latin" of which you speak?

    44. Re:Math is HARD by Nullav · · Score: 1

      Yes, but not nearly as terrible.

      --
      I just read Slashdot for the articles.
    45. Re:Math is HARD by raynet · · Score: 1

      Atleast some years ago the annual license for SMS Gateway was redicilous and depended on how many messages you wanted to deliver per second and how many messages it could hold in the queue before dropping them. This forced telcos to buy the license based on peaktime traffic (xmas whatnot) and this would increase their costs all year round. Ofcourse they also want to charge as much per message as possible as they are doing this for profit. Fortunately many telcos now do offer unlimited or virtually unlimited (1000-10000 messages per month) plans, so the price of an SMS really isn't a problem. And if it is, don't send them, just call whomever you are trying to communicate with.

      --
      - Raynet --> .
    46. Re:Math is HARD by Jedi_Yo_Jo · · Score: 1

      huffman encoding can easily handle whole words.

    47. Re:Math is HARD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh but it gets worse when you consider compression!

      Know anyone that uses more than 32 characters? (Hint: A to Z = 26, plus * and # = 28). Boom you're down to 5 bits/character.

      A static probability-based compression algorithm will easily cut that in half. With adaptive compression you can theoretically get down closer to the mid to low 1's. Let's be really generous and say 2.5 bits/character compressed because they don't want to implement adaptive compression. That's 160*2.5/8 = 50 bytes.

      Next, consider that most text messages are really short. Let's be really generous and assume the average is 64 characters: 64*2.5/8 = 20 bytes on average (*).

      * = It's important to note that this ignores headers, since that's a VERY significant portion of the bandwidth for small messages (short and/or compressed).

    48. Re:Math is HARD by maraist · · Score: 1

      Correction. The Big 5 US carriers facilitate 160 physical characters per chargeable SMS message. Some carriers have overhead that reduces this somewhat, and message concatenation consumes 7 to 10 character slots(8-bit bytes if you prefer).

      I also like how people are quoting under 15 cents per message (sending AND receiving). Have you checked your bills lately?

      The real rip-off however is not SMS, but MMS (at $1.50 each).

      --
      -Michael
    49. Re:Math is HARD by dido · · Score: 1

      Sheesh, if the telecoms in a third-world nation like mine, which is known for having the highest SMS traffic in the world (at over a billion messages a day between the three telcos), can still generate fantastic profits charging their subscribers the equivalent of less than 2 US cents per text message (and it has been relatively constant for the past decade or so since the service was introduced), you can see something is amiss here. The kinds of rates that mobile carriers charge for this service elsewhere in the world seem massively extortionate in comparison. GP poster is flat out wrong. Greed is the dominant factor here.

      --
      Qu'on me donne six lignes écrites de la main du plus honnête homme, j'y trouverai de quoi le faire pendre.
    50. Re:Math is HARD by ClownSoup · · Score: 1
      You think line noise should be free?

      --

      Verizon School of Higher Math - 160 chars should be enough for anyone.

  2. Interesting way to look at it by faloi · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I've often believed (known?) that text messaging is just a last refuge of the cell phone companies to squeeze a little extra money out of their consumers. As it is, on my carrier, I get unlimited calling to people on the same carrier all day, every day. I get unlimited calling to anybody, regardless of carrier, on nights and weekends. I even pay to have unlimited data transfer. But if I send more than number of text messages a month, it adds up substantially.

    Good thing they've got all those teenagers hooked on it.

    --
    "It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education." -Albert Einstein
    1. Re:Interesting way to look at it by The_Quinn · · Score: 2, Informative

      Sprint, for one, offers unlimited text, voice, data, etc. for less than $100 a month - so I don't see the "squeeze" you are referring to.

    2. Re:Interesting way to look at it by CRCulver · · Score: 1

      In most countries where SMS is popular, it is popular only because it is substantially cheaper than calling. The U.S. is pretty unique in offering calling plans where you get a certain number of minutes of voice time.

    3. Re:Interesting way to look at it by Hatta · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Right. This is no different than paying $4 for a hot dog at a ball park when you could get the same hot dog at home for $0.25. Yeah it's a ripoff, but you're a captive audience. If you don't like it, wait until you get home.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    4. Re:Interesting way to look at it by Presto+Vivace · · Score: 1

      It is a good catch, it would never have occurred to me to compare Hubble with SMS.

    5. Re:Interesting way to look at it by djones101 · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      Comparably speaking, Sprint is also approximately 25% more expensive than other carriers for similar services with less the availability.

    6. Re:Interesting way to look at it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't know what plans you're on, but it costs me substantially less to send someone a text (assuming I'm only wanting to say one thing) than it would be to call them and tell them that. Not to mention the fact that text messages are much more convenient if the recipient can't answer their phone immediately, given that very few people have their message banks properly set up. Besides, this article doesn't take into account the inefficiency of the spoken voices in delivering a message (compared to sending the same message in text).

    7. Re:Interesting way to look at it by Buzz_Litebeer · · Score: 1

      Your willing to pay nearly 100 for your bill, and you are ignoring the extra fees which can add mandatory 10-20 dollars to your bill.

      If you have the kind of phone that can really take advantage of the high data stuff, you are getting into 7 dollars a month insurance fee's.

      etc... etc... etc...

      When all you should really have to pay is for phone and data services which SHOULD cost around 50 dollars, but instead costs 70 dollars because of 20 dollars mandatory fees applied.

      --
      If you don't vote, you don't matter, so don't waste your time telling me your opinion
    8. Re:Interesting way to look at it by Hyppy · · Score: 3, Informative

      The profit margin on many independent vendors' food at sporting events is not as high as you think. You'd better believe that they have to pay through the nose to be able to hawk their concessions. Either way, it's not a 4-digit profit margin by ANY stretch of the imagination.

    9. Re:Interesting way to look at it by Anspen · · Score: 1

      The U.S. is pretty unique in offering calling plans where you get a certain number of minutes of voice time.

      You mean a certain amount of free minutes (say 120-300) per month? 'Cause that's the standard in most of Europe as well.

    10. Re:Interesting way to look at it by Colonel+Korn · · Score: 1

      They offer unlimited data & text and 500 minutes of voice with nights beginning at 7 PM for only $30/month.

      --
      "I zero-index my hamsters" - Willtor (147206)
    11. Re:Interesting way to look at it by lintux · · Score: 1

      It's an interesting idea though. Just like comparing the price of the average inkjet ink per liter to the price of gold. Guess who wins that one.. :-)

    12. Re:Interesting way to look at it by CastrTroy · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Not for the actual concession operators, but that $4 is going somewhere. Most likely to the owners of the baseball team, or the player's salaries, or to the owners of the stadium.

      --

      Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
    13. Re:Interesting way to look at it by Eccles · · Score: 1

      I pay $80/month before "fees" for *four* phones under a family share plan. ~$100/month for a cellphone seems bizarrely expensive to me after years of paying ~$25/month for a landline.

      --
      Ooh, a sarcasm detector. Oh, that's a real useful invention.
    14. Re:Interesting way to look at it by InsaneProcessor · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Sprint, for one, offers unlimited text, voice, data, etc. for less than $100 a month - so I don't see the "squeeze" you are referring to.

      You, my friend, have no concept of your expenses and how much you waste. I pay $100 for 4 phones with voice mail and all of the fancy features. I get 1000 minutes a month anywhere in the US and unlimited to any T-mobile phones. They want to charge me $0.15 per message that I receive. I have no control over anyone sening me messages so I, as a customer, am screwed. I don't even want this service and am forced to pay for it anyway. They will not turn it off.

      This is highway robbery and is wrong! How do we stop this?

      --

      Athiesm is a religion like not collecting stamps is a hobby.
    15. Re:Interesting way to look at it by Presto+Vivace · · Score: 1

      not quite, inkjet and gold are entirely different things, where as Hubble and SMS are both electronic communication, and I would have thought that hubble would be more expensive.

    16. Re:Interesting way to look at it by vertinox · · Score: 1

      Right. This is no different than paying $4 for a hot dog at a ball park when you could get the same hot dog at home for $0.25. Yeah it's a ripoff, but you're a captive audience. If you don't like it, wait until you get home.

      But many people these days don't even have landlines anymore so its like being charged that much anywhere you go.

      --
      "I am the king of the Romans, and am superior to rules of grammar!"
      -Sigismund, Holy Roman Emperor (1368-1437)
    17. Re:Interesting way to look at it by tompaulco · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I, on the other hand, find the spoken word to be much more adaptable in getting the point across. I could end up writing paragraphs trying to anticipate every possible misunderstanding, or I could just call someone and see how they are responding to my point and adjust accordingly. I just don't understand how people can spend an hour texting back and forth a couple of paragraphs worth of information when they could have picked up the phone and had the conversation finished in 3 minutes.
      Maybe it is because I am getting older or busier, but I just don't have time for text messaging.

      --
      If you are not allowed to question your government then the government has answered your question.
    18. Re:Interesting way to look at it by magarity · · Score: 2, Funny

      What they still haven't revealed is how they got the Hubble to SMS them to be able to compare to the phone to phone SMS cost.

    19. Re:Interesting way to look at it by rfunches · · Score: 5, Informative

      I'm sure they have a way of putting a block on a particular service -- I've been with Cingular (before the AT&T merge) and Sprint and both of them can block SMS, you just have to call and push the CSR to do it. And if they tell you they can't, ask for next-tier support. If they tell you no, threaten to take the matter up with your state's AG and the FCC. That usually gets a quick response. (If Sprint can do it, and their customer service is quite possibly the worst I've ever encountered, then T-Mobile can do it.)

    20. Re:Interesting way to look at it by Oktober+Sunset · · Score: 1

      you could go round to your mates house and tell them. Or send an email at a free WI FI spot.

    21. Re:Interesting way to look at it by ceoyoyo · · Score: 2, Interesting

      A better analogy would be the old joke about the lemonade being ten cents but the cup is a dollar.

      The carriers will cell you data transfer in the form of voice for a somewhat inflated price. They'll sell you data transfer in the form of arbitrary data for another price, sometimes higher, sometimes lower, depending on where you live. Or they'll sell you data transfer in the form of text messages for an insanely inflated price.

      The lemonade is reasonably priced, but if you want it in a cup then you're going to pay through the nose.

    22. Re:Interesting way to look at it by WaroDaBeast · · Score: 1

      Sprint, for one, isn't present worldwide -- at least not where I live, which is Reunion Island.

      That said, my carrier (Orange) does offer unlimited SMS's to any Orange phone; plus unlimited calls to any Orange and landline phone on evenings, weekends and legal holidays. However, it'll cost you 30 euros a month -- 40 euros if you want to get unlimited data; but that's another story.

      The thing is, although there are offers that optionally come with a number of free SMS's, you'll have to fork out about twelve cents for any SMS you send. Given that an SMS costs the carrier about two or three cents to transfer, I do see the squeeze.

      --
      "The body may heal, but the mind is not always so resilient." -- Deus Ex: Human Revolution
    23. Re:Interesting way to look at it by maxume · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You don't mean free minutes, you mean minutes that you pay for regardless of whether you use them or not. They're anything but free.

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    24. Re:Interesting way to look at it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Twat. The point is SMS is only using the existing infrastructure and only a tiny part of the bandwidth compared to the voice and data services. He already gets unlimited voice and data, so why should a tiny SMS cost more than making the call, or watching youtube (which is the only thing you'll do at a boring ball park anyway).

    25. Re:Interesting way to look at it by jonbryce · · Score: 1

      It is also pretty unique in charging you to receive calls and texts.

    26. Re:Interesting way to look at it by Poltras · · Score: 1

      You've obviously never went to Canada, where 100$/month isn't near anything unlimited...

    27. Re:Interesting way to look at it by tholomyes · · Score: 1

      If the tradeoff is getting ripped off on SMS or having to deal with the landline telcos, it's a small price to pay.

      --
      When did the future switch from being a promise to a threat? -C. Palahniuk
    28. Re:Interesting way to look at it by faloi · · Score: 1

      I dunno. To my mind, this is more like making a choice between eating a full steak dinner for the price of admission, but having the option to buy a hot dog for $4.00. Sure, if you're in a hurry you can get the hot dog. But it's silly for them to charge you more for the hot dog when they're letting you get the steak dinner for free.

      --
      "It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education." -Albert Einstein
    29. Re:Interesting way to look at it by tilandal · · Score: 1

      If T-mobile will not block your text messages just tell them you will switch carriers. It only took 5 mins last time I renewed my plan to get Sprint to turn off text messaging.

    30. Re:Interesting way to look at it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not when on the mainland continent with a UK phone - then you get charged to receive calls; you even get charged *NOT* to receive a call: I was in Paris a couple of years ago and my phone didn't ring when someone called, but they got through to my answerphone and so I got charged - twice: once to not receive the call and once to redirect the call to the answerphone (68p or $1.36 each time). Similarly in Mali last August, texts cost a pretty penny - something like 25p or 50p ($0.50 or $1.00) each.

    31. Re:Interesting way to look at it by mr_mischief · · Score: 1

      Well, "going round to my mate's house" for the friend I call the most means driving for 45 minutes or more. I think I'll stick with calling when all I want to say is "what's up?".

    32. Re:Interesting way to look at it by Applekid · · Score: 1

      Maybe it is because I am getting older or busier, but I just don't have time for text messaging. Funny, because I feel like I don't have the time to make calls. I wind up saying the same thing over and over because at least one person in the call is in a noisy environment, or I use [admittedly] confusing analogies and beating-around-the-bush to speak about inappropriate things with people around me (not that I particularly care about think-of-the-children, but I try not to be rude). Three minutes into the call and one side may think we're meeting at the walk instead of the block, or room D-25 instead of B-25 halfway across campus.

      Privacy from nosy cube neighbors, sent-box audit trail (proof of what I sent you), precise text instead of clipped audio quality all sold me my unlimited text add-on.
      --
      More Twoson than Cupertino
    33. Re:Interesting way to look at it by mr_mischief · · Score: 1

      You could print letters in gold. It's been done for centuries. Getting the gold into a fine powder that's suspended in a solvent that sprays through your inkjet and doesn't void your manufacturer's warranty, now that's a trick.

    34. Re:Interesting way to look at it by prestomation · · Score: 1

      I vaguely remember blocking SMS on my mother's Sprint account right on the web.

    35. Re:Interesting way to look at it by sjames · · Score: 1

      More apt is comparing the cost of ink by volume to the cost of the finest wines and chanpagne. The ink is more expensive.

      Of course, we know it's the printer makers playing find the umbrella.

    36. Re:Interesting way to look at it by tiny1877 · · Score: 1

      I disagree. My Sprint/Nextel bill is under $60/mo with unlimited direct connect, txt messages, mobile web, nights/weekends and something like 800minutes/mo for daytime. I never use the minutes. I always txt everything. It's all in how you make your plan work for you.

    37. Re:Interesting way to look at it by Eivind · · Score: 1

      No. I mean -free- minutes.

      My plan has zero establishment cost, zero prominute cost for the first 120 minutes, zero SMS-cost for the first 90 sms every month, zero everything.

      It is -free-. Assuming you don't use more than 120 minutes/month and not more than 90 SMS/month, you never pay ANYTHING to the company, not a single cent.

    38. Re:Interesting way to look at it by Ucklak · · Score: 1

      I pay $472 a year for my phone services.
      $31 a month for my landline, $25 a quarter for a mobile phone that's on only when I want to use it.

      I realize that $31 a month is a bit too much for today's environment but I'm old fashioned and can't really get it any cheaper.

      --
      if you steal from one source, that is plagiarism, if you steal from many, well, that's just research.
    39. Re:Interesting way to look at it by maxume · · Score: 1

      Really? Where?

      Is the reason why apparent(funded by taxes, they want you on their service, etc)?

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    40. Re:Interesting way to look at it by The_Quinn · · Score: 1

      $100 for 4 phones for 1000 minutes to T-Mobile phones is not so great. For my (less than) $100 for 1 phone, I get unlimited minutes to ANY other phone, plus unlimited text messaging, plus unlimited data transfer, and voice GPS services. I'm not saying my plan is better, but it is better for me.

    41. Re:Interesting way to look at it by Korin43 · · Score: 1

      $100/4 = $25/month per phone How is this expensive?

    42. Re:Interesting way to look at it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sure they have a way to BLOCK it, but what if you only want to LIMIT it. I can stop myself from sending more than 100, but there's no way to stop people from sending me unlimited numbers unless they can't send me any!

    43. Re:Interesting way to look at it by Eccles · · Score: 1

      $100/4 = $25/month per phone How is this expensive?

      Why are you dividing $100 by 4? The aforementioned Sprint $99 plan is for a single person, it's not a family plan.

      --
      Ooh, a sarcasm detector. Oh, that's a real useful invention.
    44. Re:Interesting way to look at it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you have T-Mobile, call them up and ask for their tier-2 tech support. They can disable smo or smt (or both) on their hlr in a few seconds. smo is originating sms (outgoing) and smt is terminating/receiving. That will take care of your sms ability. You may have to call them up several times in case you get some reps who don't want to cooperate but be friendly and tell them its a one time thing (most of these tier-two techs are lazy and don't want to be turning this stuff on and off all the time)

    45. Re:Interesting way to look at it by hyperz69 · · Score: 1

      I use to work for Nextel and all carriers can block SMS no problem. The ISSUE is things like voicemail message alerts will not work. They piggyback off the same system.

    46. Re:Interesting way to look at it by LilGuy · · Score: 2, Informative

      I pay about $32.50 every 2 months for a prepaid phone. I get texting at about $.50 a message and voice calls are $.10 a minute with a 1 minute minimum. That $32.50 gets me 400 minutes which roll over to the next 2 months if I don't use them.

      I really can't fathom how people can spend $100 a month for a phone service. Surfing the net is what I do at home or at school... not while I'm driving 90 down the interstate.

      --

      You're nothing; like me.
    47. Re:Interesting way to look at it by MojoStan · · Score: 1
      I think The Boondocks said it elequently and tastefully. From the episode "Let's Nab Oprah":

      Gin Rummy (voiced by Samuel L. Jackson): Man, I don't get that.
      Ed Wuncler III (voiced by Charlie Murphy): Get what?
      Gin Rummy: That textin' shit!
      Ed Wuncler: And what's wrong with textin'?
      Gin Rummy: You mean aside from the fact that it's the stupidest fucking thing in the world? I mean, why would anyone in their right mind spend fifteen minutes tryin' to type some shit they could've called and said in five seconds? Plus, it involves typing with your thumbs, which I just don't approve of. Shit, I don't know about you, but I don't have time to read nothin' that a motherfucker typed with his thumbs. Fun fact: Nothing typed by someone's thumbs has ever been important. It's all just Nigga Technology anyway.
      Ed: What'd you call it?
      Gin Rummy: Nigga Technology. Technology for Niggas. And you don't start trippin' and shit, call me a racist. 'Cause I don't mean Nigga in a disrespectful way, I-I mean it as a general term for an ignorant motherfucker. Anybody of any race can be an ignorant motherfucker.
      Ed: Shit, I be textin' my ass off, shit, bitches like text! I be textin' 'em all the time; 'matter of fact, I also be textin' my weed man, too, cause, you know, he don't like to be on the phone, so I text 'im!
      Gin Rummy: ...Case in point.

      --
      TO START
      PRESS ANY KEY

      Where's the 'ANY' key? I see Esk, Kitarl, and Pig-Up...

    48. Re:Interesting way to look at it by epgandalf · · Score: 1

      That's not true. I have a plan with Verizon and I've turned off my ability to receive text messages. I was getting several text messages a day with random stuff in spanglish and paying 10c each for that privilege. I can still get voicemail and missed call alerts.

    49. Re:Interesting way to look at it by magicchex · · Score: 1

      I pay $10/month for unlimited messaging across 4 different phones/phone numbers and have for years now. I don't feel the 'squeeze'. I'd much rather text message somebody than talk on the phone anyways.

      --
      How many fulltime jobs can one man have?
    50. Re:Interesting way to look at it by Eil · · Score: 1

      I've often believed (known?) that text messaging is just a last refuge of the cell phone companies to squeeze a little extra money out of their consumers.

      Last refuge nothing, they have infinite ways of milking as much money from customers as possible and are dreaming up new ones every day.

      And we allow it.

      If this happened in the Internet/computer industry, it would be an outrage. Imagine, if you would, your city only has three Internet providers and in order to use their service, your computer has to be purchased through them or one of their authorized retailers. None of the computers that they offer really fits your needs, so you're forced with either paying for a computer with more features that you'll actually use or settling on a lower-end computer that you can only use for very basic tasks. The computer comes with only a handful of applications and there's no way to install more without upgrading to a more expensive model. You can't put a new OS on it, or else your service will be terminated or you'll be fined or both. During the day time, each minute that you're online costs you money. Each IM that you send adds an extra $0.05 to your bill, as does every desktop wallpaper that you download. If you finally come to your senses and realize that you're getting financially hosed by your service provider, there will be a $150 fee on your final bill for cancelling your contract early.

    51. Re:Interesting way to look at it by Junior+J.+Junior+III · · Score: 1

      Dude, sitting around at home waiting for SMS to come in on my land line sucks.

      --
      You see? You see? Your stupid minds! Stupid! Stupid!
    52. Re:Interesting way to look at it by Jurily · · Score: 1

      Not for the actual concession operators, but that $4 is going somewhere. Most likely to the owners of the baseball team. Fixed that for you.
    53. Re:Interesting way to look at it by Eivind · · Score: 1

      Norway. Offcourse there's a reason, it's not charity or anything.

      The primary reason is, they want you on their service. Though the 120 minutes and 90 SMS are free, they still hope to make money off you.

      For example, the price pro minute in the 120 - 360 minute bracket is higher than by many competitors, they obviously hope that people will not manage to stay within the free minutes (and/or free SMSes), something which is probably aided by quite heavy marketing towards teens.

      Also, you pay if you phone abroad, again, the prices here are somewhat higher than the best on the market.

      And who knows if it stays free forever. It's quite possible that their strategy is to use "free" to build a customer-base, and then once they're reasonably priced up the price so that it's no longer free, but instead aproximately on par with the second-most-inexpensive provider. People seldom switch providers for small savings, so they could probably even up the price to be sligthly MORE expensive than the cheapest competitor, and still keep most customers.

      The mobile phone market here is fiercely competitive for a country with 5 million inhabitants. There are 3 independent physical networks, all compatible, and aproximately 30 companies competing on providing services on one or more of the 3 networks.

      Pricing is transparent, since there is a government-run portal that collects and publishes prices, you enter your expected usage, and up comes a sorted list of companies and offerings, sorted by price. ( www.telepriser.no )

      But aslong as it lasts, I'm a happy camper. I never use more than the minutes since I've got unlimited free minutes by ip-phone in wlan-zones, so I never make long calls when I'm not in wlan-coverage. Not hard, and means it's actually over a year since I paid a single cent for telephone.

    54. Re:Interesting way to look at it by stands2reason · · Score: 1

      Are you sure? Alltel will block texting if you ask them, then they redirect it to a free web service. I would expect no less from T-Mobile.

  3. Mobile phones are stupidly expensive.. by LingNoi · · Score: 5, Interesting

    and they have these stupid contracts such as "You pay as 15 pounds a month and we'll give you x many text messages free!"

    What a stupid offer.. I mean what's next. I pay Microsoft 250 pounds and they give me a free operating system? Who are the kidding here?

    When in Thailand I had the best phone contract ever with DTAC, 8 pounds a month, free phone calls any time for as long as I wanted to 5 selected numbers including 500 hours internet usage.

    To ask for such a price in the places such as England would get you laughed out the shop.

    1. Re:Mobile phones are stupidly expensive.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      DTAC is fantastic. I've grown very jealous since coming back to the US.

    2. Re:Mobile phones are stupidly expensive.. by jsebrech · · Score: 4, Insightful

      these stupid contracts such as "You pay as 15 pounds a month and we'll give you x many text messages free!" What a stupid offer..

      It's actually quite clever. By throwing in "freebies", they can take them away at any time. Just like they throw around temporary discounts "sign up for 12 months, and the first 6 months you only pay ..."

      The more a company does this, the less likely I am to do business with them. It demonstrates an inherent lack of commitment to the existing customers (who usually don't get the freebies).

    3. Re:Mobile phones are stupidly expensive.. by neokushan · · Score: 1

      I suppose for contract phones, it is a bit stupid. I'm on PAYG at the moment though and if I top-up by £10, £20 or £30 I get X free texts (£30 gives me unlimited, £20 gives me 600). 600 free SMS's are more than enough for me a month, but I still get the £20 credit.
      So the way I see it, I COULD probably get a similar deal on a contract for £15 a month, but this way I get free texts AND the money I use to get this goes on my phone to be used as and when I please.

      --
      +1 IDisagreeSoHeMustBeATrollOrAnAstroturferOrAShill
    4. Re:Mobile phones are stupidly expensive.. by gravis777 · · Score: 1

      My best was in Austria, on Max Mobile I think it was called. I paid roughly around 80 euro for the phone (of course, they were still on the shilling at that time, but they displayed both euro and shilling, and at the time, the dollar was stronger than the euro), and it came with like 20 euro of minutes. However, it cost me nothing to recieve calls, and nothing to call toll free numbers, and I had a calling plan to the states. I think it was also free to call other Max Mobile users, and all of us students had them. I used the phone all the time, yet I think those 20 euro of minutes lasted 3 months (until I started traveling outside of Austria and those roaming fees kicked in).

      In the states, I pay roughly $70 a month, and that is with the business discount. Oh, and I do not have a blackberry or iPhone, so no internet or e-mail on this phone (add an extra $50 a month for that). This covers 250 anytime minutes, rollover, free nights and weekends, free calling to AT&T customers and landlines anytime of day, nationwide roaming, and unlimited texts. Its a freakin ripoff, but I have never been in an area (even in the mountains) where I have not had a signal, and I depend on the cell phone too much. Sad thing is, I think $25 of that is in taxes to the state, 911 fees, Texas infastructor fund, and other things. However, I did cut off the house line, so that helps lower my telecommunications fees.

    5. Re:Mobile phones are stupidly expensive.. by slim · · Score: 1

      You're surprised when something is cheaper in Thailand than it is in Britain?

    6. Re:Mobile phones are stupidly expensive.. by dotwaffle · · Score: 1

      I have that with Vodafone business, but it's £15/month, free calls to all landlines all the time, free calls to all Vodafone business customers, and best of all - I get to use any spare minutes from the bosses stash.

    7. Re:Mobile phones are stupidly expensive.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Man (woman?), average salaries and other expenses in the two countries are way different. You cannot compare only on that basis. Maybe DTAC has more profit margin than english mobile operators.

  4. is this a dupe--or just inisghtful by way2trivial · · Score: 4, Informative

    nilbog writes
    "What's the actual cost of sending SMS messages? This article does the math and concludes that, for example, sending an amount of data that would cost $1 from your ISP would cost over $61 million if you were to send it over SMS. Why has the cost of bandwidth, infrastructure, and technology in general plummeted while the price of SMS messages have risen so egregiously? How can carriers continue to justify the high cost of their apparent super-premium data transmission?"

    http://tech.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/01/29/0244208&from=rss

    --
    every day http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Random
    1. Re:is this a dupe--or just inisghtful by Kjella · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Lack of competition and cost awareness. Really.

      For example, take the data rates while abroad. Do you really think the extra cost of transferring data across the world (you know, like you're doing right now) justified a price that's often tens of dollars per megabyte? Or that in-flight calls really cost that much? They charge what people will pay, simple as that.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    2. Re:is this a dupe--or just inisghtful by mr_mischief · · Score: 1

      Laziness of people keeping them from grabbing a real computer and instead opting for holding on to the little phone has a lot to do with it. IMs are zero marginal cost once you have Internet service. SMS usually cost quite a bit.

      Just use a laptop (or phone handset) with WiFi and a cable/DSL/fiber/tower-to-customer wireless Internet connection at the other end of that WiFi and you can save a bunch of money.

      Sure, in some situations/locations, you get SMS without getting a decent Net connection, but I see people sitting on couches or in coffee shops using SMS.

    3. Re:is this a dupe--or just inisghtful by jlarocco · · Score: 1

      There's plenty of competition. The problem is people are idiots and agreed to and signed contracts saying they'll pay a huge fee for breaking their contract. Signing a contract like that more or less removes the competition. Nobody is going to (or even can?) offer text messages and phone service so cheap it makes it worthwhile to pay the contract breaking fee with your current provider.

      To top it off, few people are saying "Well, I think text messages are too expensive, so I'll stop using them and remove them from my plan." The majority of people seem to say "Wow, what a rip off," and then continue sending them anyway. Competition only works when the consumers try to save money. Why lower prices when the consumers are happily paying the current prices?

    4. Re:is this a dupe--or just inisghtful by Orinthe · · Score: 1

      Lack of competition and cost awareness. Really. For example, take the data rates while abroad. Do you really think the extra cost of transferring data across the world (you know, like you're doing right now) justified a price that's often tens of dollars per megabyte? Or that in-flight calls really cost that much? They charge what people will pay, simple as that. SMS prices are absolutely ridiculous (and 5p is nothing, my carrier charged me 0.20USD per when I didn't have an SMS plan, and I believe their prices have INcreased to $0.25 or $0.30 since then), but in-flight data/voice services are mostly satellite-based and a completely different animal (unless they are air-to-ground, which is a different matter). Do you have any idea how much satellite bandwidth costs? Not to mention latency issues. Just because you can get some form of internet does NOT mean that the cost to offer the service is similar to what you might get from your terrestrial ISP. In this case, the lack of price awareness works the other way, I think.
      --
      SELECT quote.text AS sig FROM quote NATURAL JOIN attribute WHERE attribute.description = 'witty';
      0 rows returned
  5. Re:Math is HARD, idiocy comes natural by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Okay, let's see your calculations.

  6. and the infrastructure cost doesn't matter? by Shivetya · · Score: 1, Insightful

    because the whole idea that cell towers and the like just sprouted like weeds is appealing but they are costly.

    Actually the comparison is bogus because its apple's and oranges. They have nothing in common other than that word "transmit"

    How much did it cost to deploy and manage a network capable of servicing text messages?

    How much did it cost to deploy the Hubble, let alone a system to manage it?

    Both relied on much existing infrastructure but I have to wonder, whats the preoccupation with texting? I know people who can't take a second breath in between having to text others. Are we that boring we need to bombard everyone around us to prove we are alive?

    --
    * Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
    1. Re:and the infrastructure cost doesn't matter? by EdIII · · Score: 5, Insightful

      because the whole idea that cell towers and the like just sprouted like weeds is appealing but they are costly.
      That only sounds insightful. The cell towers in question provide the infrastructure for SMS/VOICE/DATA all at the same time. The cost of the tower is not actually relevant to your argument at all since it applies equally to all the products being provided.

      Actually the comparison is bogus because its apple's and oranges. They have nothing in common other than that word "transmit"
      Exactly the opposite in fact. Apples/Apples/Apples. Whether or not it is a SMS message, Voice call, or Data connection it is all just digital communications between the cellular handset and the towers. If you were to compare it to the Internet, the cell towers would be your connection and SMS/VOICE/DATA would just be different services communicating on the same foundation of TCP/IP. It's all just packets of data when you get down to it.

      How much did it cost to deploy and manage a network capable of servicing text messages?
      The best question you have asked so far. I don't know the answer either, but I do KNOW that we can compare that directly with the cost to deploy and manage a network capable of handling digital voice communications.

      How much did it cost to deploy the Hubble, let alone a system to manage it?

      That question was answered in the article itself by nobody less than NASA themselves. So the data he is using there is accurate.

      You are trying to consider the actual costs of a SMS infrastructure. However, you really only need to consider how much more difficult it is to establish a two-way voice communication than send a SMS text message.

      In order of difficulty, it starts with a voice conversation being the most difficult, a data session being the 2nd most difficult (I may be wrong here, data could be 1st for all I know), and lastly sending and acknowledging receipt of a SMS message. When you start to think about that ask yourself if a static 160 character SMS message really costs 20-25% of a minute of real time telephone conversation.

      That is the real "dirty" truth. Sending a SMS text message only requires a very short transmission of data and a receipt being sent back from the handset. If you were to attempt to compare that "Apple" to the "Orange" that is a 60 second slice of a voice call, you would find that a 60 second voice call is really just about a thousand of those little SMS messages being sent back and forth between the tower and handset. I came up with that number by assuming that a voice call will require at least 2.5KB/s of data for a decent quality connection. Take 2500 bytes and divide that by 140 bytes (from the article) and you get approx. 18 SMS messages per second of voice, which is 1080 SMS messages per minute.

      A SMS message is at most 1/1000th of the difficulty of sending and receiving voice data. There is no "separate" cell tower infrastructure that is more complex, and thus more costly, than the voice/data infrastructure. SMS was a tiny little added feature that turned into something else along the way, namely a astronomically high margin product.

      I am not even really that mad at them. They found a price point that people were willing to pay for a product that cost them far far less to "produce". I just happened to be one of the people that knew how high their margin really was and decided to not pay them for it. Caveat Emptor.
    2. Re:and the infrastructure cost doesn't matter? by Kyont · · Score: 1

      Are we that boring we need to bombard everyone around us to prove we are alive? Apparently so.

      --
      You shall see a cow on the roof of a cotton house.
    3. Re:and the infrastructure cost doesn't matter? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      WTF. you expect anyone to believe that infrastructure was upgraded to handle SMS?!?!?!?

    4. Re:and the infrastructure cost doesn't matter? by Guppy06 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "because the whole idea that cell towers and the like just sprouted like weeds is appealing but they are costly."

      The towers were there long before anybody thought of SMS.

      "How much did it cost to deploy and manage a network capable of servicing text messages?"

      Small, best-effort text messages? Oh, I'd wager it's at least an order of magnitude less than the cost of switched networks capable of real-time voice transmission.

      "Both relied on much existing infrastructure but I have to wonder, whats the preoccupation with texting?"

      For me, it's because I get billed $0.20 for every wrong number and/or spam I receive. I've never sent an SMS message in my life and I don't anticipate that changing any time soon. Combine that with the price it cost the sender to send it and it's about enough for the USPS to process physical media. Why send a few dozen characters when you could send them a postcard with a pretty picture on it for less? Or for slightly more than what it costs to both send and receive a text message, you could mail them a DVD.

      "Are we that boring we need to bombard everyone around us to prove we are alive?"

      I'm more concerned with the phone companies bombarding me with frivolous charges.

    5. Re:and the infrastructure cost doesn't matter? by maxume · · Score: 2, Funny

      7 people with legitimate uses and 200,000 spazzes does not "we" make.

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    6. Re:and the infrastructure cost doesn't matter? by foobsr · · Score: 1

      because the whole idea that cell towers and the like just sprouted like weeds is appealing but they are costly.

      Well ..., quote: "Vodafone posts profit of £3.29 billion" ($6.82 billion, November 14, 2007)

      Yep, time to collect some extra cash for those poor chaps.

      CC.

      --
      TaijiQuan (Huang, 5 loosenings)
    7. Re:and the infrastructure cost doesn't matter? by vertinox · · Score: 1

      I am not even really that mad at them. They found a price point that people were willing to pay for a product that cost them far far less to "produce".

      You mean like how Standard Oil did in 1911?

      --
      "I am the king of the Romans, and am superior to rules of grammar!"
      -Sigismund, Holy Roman Emperor (1368-1437)
    8. Re:and the infrastructure cost doesn't matter? by mr_mischief · · Score: 1

      The towers were there long before anybody thought of SMS. Not only that, but the software to handle SMS messages is a slight tweak to that already used for voice. And the cellular voice software was basically tweaked from terrestrial hard-line phone service only in that it tracks your phone for tower-to-tower roaming.

      The hardware, real estate (although lower than rights-of-way for every hardline) and electricity costs are real. Nearly all the technological advances came from existing landlines, packet radio, and the Internet more so than being invented from scratch.

      Hell, CDMA/Edge is very close to being a roaming wireless Ethernet and TDMA/GSM is close to being a roaming wireless Token Ring or FDDI. The AT command set of GSM phones comes from modems. The voice data transmitted across a cell network is encoded with audio codecs just like for landlines, audio files on computers, or VoIP (although often using different codecs specifically designed for cellular telephony).

      Every cellphone is basically a cellular radio WAN bridge, a NIC, a CPU/DSP combination encoding and decoding packet data, and a user interface for getting sound, numbers, and text into and out of the system. With sufficient standards, cheap enough spectrum, and enough interoperability testing we could easily have Open Source/Open Hardware phones running commodity hardware and software on commodity networks like chat software on PCs across the Internet.

      Spectrum's not cheap, though, and interoperability isn't always easy. Google's play to get the open access rules in the recent US spectrum auction is a big step towards a wireless Internet extravaganza, but only a step.
    9. Re:and the infrastructure cost doesn't matter? by acheron12 · · Score: 1

      Actually the comparison is bogus because its apple's and oranges. They have nothing in common other than that word "transmit"
      Exactly the opposite in fact. Apples/Apples/Apples. Whether or not it is a SMS message, Voice call, or Data connection it is all just digital communications between the cellular handset and the towers. If anything, SMS is lower priority data - it's not uncommon for their delivery to be delayed by minutes or occasionally days. Imagine that kind of lag in a voice conversation!
      --
      there is no god but truth, and reality is its prophet
    10. Re:and the infrastructure cost doesn't matter? by atraintocry · · Score: 1

      While a voice line requires more live bandwidth, it's also much more forgiving when it comes to dropping a packet. An SMS has to get there intact. And it has to ride on there on a network that's designed for throughput rather than accuracy or speed. I don't think it impacts the main point a lot, that cellular companies have a price-gouging fetish, but I think it needs to pointed out.

    11. Re:and the infrastructure cost doesn't matter? by prockcore · · Score: 1

      Well ..., quote: "Sprint Nextel loses $505M on lower revenue" (today)

    12. Re:and the infrastructure cost doesn't matter? by raynet · · Score: 1

      Humm, I don't think you have any experience with SMS gateways. Even though the amount of data is small, the protocol (signaling) used is braindead, there are not that many vendors making gateways and there is huge number of messages going through the gateway. In Finland at New Years people send about 10 million SMS greetings, that is 115 messages per second on average. These all have to be recieved, queued, routed, possibly resent, logged, billed. Who system has to be built to handle these peak loads and ofcourse the licensing cost of SMS gateway software is (or was some years back) built so that you pay for how many message per second it can deliver and how many messages it can hold in the queue. With voice you "only" need to initiate the call, after that the data should flow between the phones without much work from the telco where as with SMS there is lots of overhead and work to do per message. And yes, telcos ofcourse put as high price per SMS the consumer is willing to pay, it is business after all.

      --
      - Raynet --> .
    13. Re:and the infrastructure cost doesn't matter? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      An SMS has to get there intact Tell that to your telco.
      I don't know any that will guarantee delivery of SMS
    14. Re:and the infrastructure cost doesn't matter? by clonehappy · · Score: 1

      Agreed, the difficulty and raw amount of data transferred is miniscule compared to an actual telephone call or data connection. However, the data system (at least in GSM/GPRS networks) uses a voice channel to transfer the data. The voice channels are the largest chunk of the spectrum available at a given base station.

      The SMS messages, however, are transferred between the handset and base station using the GSM control channel, a far more limited and mission-critical chunk of spectrum. So while we can sit and compare SMS vs. Data vs. Full-rate voice vs. Half-rate voice, it really is Apples and Oranges considering that most, if not all SMS are transferred this way. MMS, however, uses GPRS/EDGE (and I believe the data channels in CDMA as well), and might actually be a more valid comparison.

      In CDMA or WCDMA (3GSM) networks, I have no idea whether or not voice/data channels are used for SMS. As a side note, I once read somewhere that it is possible to deploy SMS on GSM using the GPRS/EDGE data channels, but it has not, as of yet, been implemented.

    15. Re:and the infrastructure cost doesn't matter? by foobsr · · Score: 1

      "Customer defections and a drop in average revenue per customer led to an 8.7 percent drop in wireless revenue to $7.96 billion for the quarter, compared with $8.72 billion during the same period a year earlier."

      As I sad, they almost cannot afford food to live on now, not to speak of infrastructure.

      CC.

      --
      TaijiQuan (Huang, 5 loosenings)
    16. Re:and the infrastructure cost doesn't matter? by westlake · · Score: 1
      You mean like how Standard Oil did in 1911?

      The price of gas in 1910 was seven cents a gallon.

      The operating cost of your Ford car was one cent a mile - cheaper than the street car or commuter rail.

      Rockefeller built his empire on the "standard" product - predictable and safe in ordinary use and sold at retail in honest measures.

    17. Re:and the infrastructure cost doesn't matter? by prockcore · · Score: 1

      Yes yes they made 7.96 billion in the quarter.. but after you remove the expenses (like, you know, paying your employees) they LOST money... as in it cost more than 7.96 billion to actually keep sprint running last quarter.

  7. Real Cost? by SOOPRcow · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Is that the real cost of sending a text msg or just the average rate charged per msg? One has got to think its cheaper for phone companies to send a text msg then it is to make a phone call, but I don't know.

    1. Re:Real Cost? by morethanapapercert · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I seem to recall reading somewhere recently that sending text messages via SMS costs North American mobile carriers essentially nothing. The reason being that apparently cell networks have a reserved amount of bandwidth exclusively for the use of control signals. If I recall correctly, the established standards and protocols require this control signal allowance but in current practice it is either totally unused or drastically underused. SMS messages are sent using that control signal bandwidth and protocol so it is being sent using space that wasn't being used anyway. Thus the net cost of handling a text message is zero. (There may be costs in passing along text messages to another carrier on another network, that would depend on what peering agreements are in place I think.)

      --
      I need a wheelchair van for my son. Help me get the word out. https://www.gofundme.com/wheelchair-van-for-jj
    2. Re:Real Cost? by raynet · · Score: 1

      The cost of the software to handle the SMS message is non-zero so there is per message cost even if the actual "physical" delivery of the message via the cell network wouldn't cost anything.

      --
      - Raynet --> .
  8. ET by Davemania · · Score: 5, Funny

    No Wonder ET wants to call home

  9. Markup by esocid · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Everyone knows cellular companies markup text services so high it's ridiculous. I think it's in the range of 4000x higher than data transfer rates. You pay 0.10 for 140bytes for texts, or about 0.15 for 1024bytes in any data transfer service.
    This just makes it a stellar ripoff. When will it ever change?

    --
    Absolute power corrupts absolutely. indymedia
    1. Re:Markup by PCPackrat · · Score: 1

      Verizon forced IMs over the SMS network when they could have gone over the broadband. I thought that was an interesting way rip people off.

    2. Re:Markup by proxima · · Score: 1

      You pay 0.10 for 140bytes for texts, or about 0.15 for 1024bytes in any data transfer service.

      0.15 cents or 0.15 dollars?
      --
      "The universe seems neither benign nor hostile, merely indifferent." --Carl Sagan
    3. Re:Markup by refitman · · Score: 1

      You pay 0.10 for 140bytes for texts, or about 0.15 for 1024bytes in any data transfer service Yeah but is that $0.10 or $0.001? Don't let Verizon see this or your bill will rocket!
      --
      First God made idiots. That was for practice. Then He made Jack Thompson.
    4. Re:Markup by ceoyoyo · · Score: 1

      It will change when we all have smart phones and data plans. Who wants to pay extortionate rates for texts when you've got e-mail?

      Incidentally my first cell phone thirteen or so years ago had a "text messaging" feature. You could send a text message to it from another phone (but nobody I knew had that ability) or you could send an e-mail to the phone (it had it's own e-mail address). For free. Needless to say the carriers decided that was a bad idea and "invented" text messaging some years later.

    5. Re:Markup by wakingrufus · · Score: 1

      They also charge $.20 for every text sent and $.20 for every text received, if you don't pay for their monthly text program. I think this is higher than every other service provider.

    6. Re:Markup by esocid · · Score: 1

      0.15 dollars. I'll assume that link is from the conversation b/w a customer quoted 0.05 cents per mb or whatever and verizon, who can't do math. very amusing indeed.

      --
      Absolute power corrupts absolutely. indymedia
  10. Double dipping by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    And don't forget that both the sender *and* the recipient pay for a text message for every one sent.

    Sprint's charging $0.20 each for these now-a-day (unless you have another plan of some sort). It's just the latest ripoff in the mobile phone industry.

    1. Re:Double dipping by stevey · · Score: 5, Informative

      That's primarily an issue with American carriers.

      In the UK, where I am, & Europe, we pay to send messages, and make phone calls, but to receive either is free.

    2. Re:Double dipping by psmears · · Score: 5, Interesting

      And don't forget that both the sender *and* the recipient pay for a text message for every one sent. Only in the US. In the UK (and the rest of Europe, AFAIK) the telcos don't charge you for receiving texts—and even the idea of them doing so is considered absurd.
    3. Re:Double dipping by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      How do US carriers get away with this? Charging to receive phone calls is a bit weird, but at least you have the option to look at the caller ID and reject the call. Paying to receive SMS seems perverse, since there is nothing to stop someone spamming you with a million messages. Or do your messages get held on a server, and you get a free text saying you've received a text and asking if you want to receive it?

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    4. Re:Double dipping by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm incredulous. As the others said, as an Irish guy what you said is totally insane to me. I mean holy shit, paying for someone else's message? How can you allow yourselves to be ripped off like that, and for that matter how does that escape regulation?! How can a situation where someone can spam you and take your money away be allowed to arise? That's bloody crazy!

    5. Re:Double dipping by Thaelon · · Score: 4, Funny

      And don't forget that both the sender *and* the recipient pay for a text message for every one sent.
      Only in the US. In the UK (and the rest of Europe, AFAIK) the telcos don't charge you for receiving texts--and even the idea of them doing so is considered absurd.
      Oh, believe me, we in the US consider it absurd too. But when every carrier available to you does it, it doesn't bleedin' matter what we think, does it?
      --

      Question everything

    6. Re:Double dipping by _xeno_ · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I don't really care about being charged minutes to receive calls - it seems fair enough, I'm using air time. I can check the caller ID and refuse the call if I don't want to be charged. It hasn't been a big deal.

      Getting dinged $0.20 per spam SMS? That's a bit more annoying. There's no way to refuse a text message (on Sprint, at least). And thanks to the email-to-SMS gateway, the spammer doesn't get charged a penny. (I'm noticing that a huge percentage of spam I receive on my regular account is, for some strange reason, under 160 characters.)

      It's even more annoying because I have an unlimited data plan - I can send and receive unlimited email from my Gmail account. I can view satellite imagery on Google Maps, which I'm fairly sure involves more data transfer than an SMS. But receive one text message? Boom, $0.20 charge.

      --
      You are in a maze of twisty little relative jumps, all alike.
    7. Re:Double dipping by Andy+Furnival · · Score: 1

      Actually, what may people don't realise is that UK networks and those in Europe charge Termination fees. That is everytime you call your buddy on a different mobile operator, included in your call cost is a termination charge from the destination mobile operator to route your call to your buddies phone.

      Mobile companies make roughly £3 billion per year on these stealth termination costs alone.

      Andy

    8. Re:Double dipping by QuantumRiff · · Score: 1

      I moved to sprint a year ago, and that does piss me off. My regional Cell company I was with before at least gave me incoming Text messages for free. That was really handy with Nagios! Now I have family members that love to text all the time, and After I get the third message in a row, I have to call them and say "What are you trying to freaking say? your costing me a fortune!". I know I can get X number of messages for $4 a month, but I refuse, I don't think I should have to pay for incoming messages that I can't control. At least with phone calls, I can choose to answer or not.

      --

      What are we going to do tonight Brain?
    9. Re:Double dipping by jimicus · · Score: 1

      How do US carriers get away with this? They all do it, so your choices are:

      1. Put up with it.
      2. Don't bother having a mobile phone.

      (I wonder if anyone's ever considered investigating these companies for racketeering - wouldn't surprise me even remotely if they were colluding on these things)
    10. Re:Double dipping by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Only in the US. In the UK (and the rest of Europe, AFAIK) the telcos don't charge you for receiving texts—and even the idea of them doing so is considered absurd. Oh, its considered absurd here as well, I assure you. But since when has absurdity stopped modern business?
    11. Re:Double dipping by CastrTroy · · Score: 1

      In Canada, we pay for airtime on incoming and outgoing calls. For SMS we usually only pay for sending. I'm not sure how they can charge you for receiving an SMS. You have no option but to receive it. With boice calls, you could always just not answer if you don't want to pay for the air time. Or hang up at any time if you find the call is going on too long and you think it's getting too expensive. With SMS the message just shows up own your phone. Could you just ring up hundreds of dollars of charges on someones account by sending them thousands of SMS messages?

      --

      Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
    12. Re:Double dipping by TheRaven64 · · Score: 5, Interesting
      Option 3:

      Have a day when everyone in the country sends an SMS to their senator and their representative and see how long the practice is allowed to stand when every politician has mobile phone bills in the tens or hundreds of thousands.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    13. Re:Double dipping by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not only is receiving SMS free in Europe, it's free wherever the SMS came from and even when you're roaming. For me that is the only reason to ever send SMS: When I send an SMS to a phone subscribed to the same network, the SMS is relatively cheap and it reaches its destination for that price even when other phone is in another country, where taking a call would cost the other party prohibitive roaming fees.

    14. Re:Double dipping by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Data is data is data, but the carriers refuse to treat them that way because text messaging is currently a cash cow. That's the only reason. It doesn't matter what network it's on because text messages are incredibly tiny in terms of bandwidth on any of the carrier's networks.

      Stupid troll.

    15. Re:Double dipping by rfunches · · Score: 1

      If you mean refuse SMS messages on a selective basis, no. But Sprint will block SMS messages entirely if you call customer service, you just have to yell at them for a while before they get the point.

    16. Re:Double dipping by Lisandro · · Score: 2, Informative

      Only in the US. In the UK (and the rest of Europe, AFAIK) the telcos don't charge you for receiving textsand even the idea of them doing so is considered absurd.

      Ditto for most Lain American countries. SMS aren't exactly cheap down here, but receiving is always free of charge.

    17. Re:Double dipping by SandwhichMaster · · Score: 1

      I remember reading somewhere that they increased their rate to encourage people to use a text message plan, so they could save money. That's some ridiculous reasoning.

      Its not all bad though. I called Sprint and made a fuss about the rate increase, and told them I wanted out of your contract (for a number of reasons). They offered me free unlimited internet for all the phones on my plan, 600 free text messages per phone, and additional messages at the .10 rate. I still hate Sprint, but at least it costs a little less now.

    18. Re:Double dipping by Shakrai · · Score: 1

      In the UK, where I am, & Europe, we pay to send messages, and make phone calls, but to receive either is free.

      You also get to pay a premium to call mobile numbers. Here in the states it doesn't cost any more or less to dial a mobile number than it does to dial any landline number.

      I don't pretend to know which one is more fair but I do know you aren't telling the whole story if you point out that you have free incoming calls without pointing out that it typically costs extra to call a mobile user.

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    19. Re:Double dipping by Shakrai · · Score: 1

      You've heard of EDVO and 3G before, right? Those are "data networks".

      SMS is sent over the standard cell network. This means you can receive text messages even when you CAN'T send data.

      You do realize that the "data network" uses the exact same infrastructure (towers, antennas, frequencies, backhaul, etc) as the "standard cell network", right?

      Data might not always be available depending on whether or not they've upgraded their base station equipment to support it, but it isn't a different "network" -- just a different functionality on the same underlying network that you use to make voice calls/send SMSes.

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    20. Re:Double dipping by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      If I had to pay to receive calls, I'd never answer the phone.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    21. Re:Double dipping by bill_kress · · Score: 1

      AT&T allowed me to block all text messaging.

      If you complain to Sprint, maybe they will do the same.

      If not, I would think there would be some way to make them liable.

      If you like text messages--on top of your data plan--I can't help you, I think it's an all or nothing thing.

      by the way (o/t), I used some of my 100 free text messages on my iPhone for the first time the other day--worked amazingly well.. simple clear, like IMing. In fact, I wonder if that is why they don't have any IM clients built in--they are trying to get people to use fee-per-use IMing instead. (I doubt it, just a thought)

    22. Re:Double dipping by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You could at least log in if you're going to whine about it.

      Rather than try a dumb car analogy, I'll go with a simple web analogy. Data is data, right? By that logic there's no difference between HTTP and SMTP. But there is. They may transfer data using the same medium (the Internet becoming an analogy to "radio waves") but they connect to completely different systems.

      It may be cheap to load webpages over HTTP, but it's quite a bit more expensive if you intend to load webpages over SMTP. (But technically possible.)

      The fact that they're different networks is meaningful. If you can get a signal, you can send/receive voice calls and SMS. You MAY be able to send data, if you're lucky.

      Data may be "data" but when you're sending via two completely different mechanisms, the difference is important.

      Learn how phones work. There are multiple ways to send data, and they have different costs associated with them.

    23. Re:Double dipping by Danse · · Score: 1

      Option 3:


      Have a day when everyone in the country sends an SMS to their senator and their representative and see how long the practice is allowed to stand when every politician has mobile phone bills in the tens or hundreds of thousands.

      Ok, but where do I find their cell numbers?
      --
      It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds. - Captain Hammer
    24. Re:Double dipping by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      "you aren't telling the whole story"

      What an obviously insidious guy.

      Maybe he didn't know about this little tidbit? BTW, FWIW personally I consider it more fair to be charged more if I call someone on a cell, after all, I can usually chose to use some other means of communication if I think it's too expensive. (Really though, unless you're a big talker the mobile doesn't get that expensive -- as long as you're not abroad topping off the bill with some roaming fees...) I'd be totally pissed off to have to pay everytime I get a message I didn't ask for, or everytime someone decided to call me. Why should I pay for something I had no part in initiating?

    25. Re:Double dipping by nikanj · · Score: 1

      Here in Finland, nobody has a landline these days..

    26. Re:Double dipping by rkanodia · · Score: 1

      I just assumed from day one that AT&T made Apple promise not to put iChat on the iPhone. It can't be that tough to port; Meebo has an iPhone-specific version of their AJAX IM client, and it's great - it looks and feels just like a native application.

    27. Re:Double dipping by jc42 · · Score: 3, Informative

      (I wonder if anyone's ever considered investigating these companies for racketeering - wouldn't surprise me even remotely if they were colluding on these things)

      Nah; they probably haven't been "colluding" in any legal sense. They can probably show in court that they haven't gotten together to arrange prices.

      The term you're looking for is "gentlemen's agreement", which has a long history in the business world, and is the standard way of getting around any such government regulation. Now with the Internet, it's easier than ever for companies to align policies and prices without doing any direct communication. Each company just keeps track of its competitors' policies and prices, and makes sure that their own are roughly the same. They're also careful to maintain slight variations, as "proof" that there's no collusion.

      This can be broken in two ways. One is for a company to suddenly introduce a much better deal with customers. This doesn't happen often, because there are usually strong barriers to entry. This means that the change would have to be done by one of the existing companies, and their management has the sense to not do that. This has happened in the past, when a large outside company with sufficient funds was able to break into a market. A major example recently was the entry of Japanese auto companies into the American market back in the 1960s and 1970s.

      The other way to break a gentlemen's agreement is via government action. We had a major telecom example of this in the US in the 1970s, when the government invalidated the companies' contract terms forbidding "foreign attachments". Suddenly things like modems and phones with new features became possible, and we had an explosion of new products that the phone companies had managed to block for the previous century.

      But it's rather rare for government regulators to make such enabling changes. This is the current situation with cell phones, where there appears to be regulation and competition, but the regulative agencies are pretty much ruled by the companies. So gentlemen's agreements are the way things are organized, and the companies can all say "Sign our contract or go without entirely". They know that their competitors' contracts differ only trivially, the regulators are mostly there to prevent entry of new competitors, and there's no way for mere customers to do anything about it.

      --
      Those who do study history are doomed to stand helplessly by while everyone else repeats it.
    28. Re:Double dipping by ThJ · · Score: 1

      It just seems more fair. Cellphones in Norway typically have reserved prefixes that most people will recognize. Thus you're very aware of it when you call a cellphone and it also has the advantage that you always know that you can send someone an SMS. Different operators relay these among themselves and since Europe is standardized on GSM there's no issues like in America where people on different operators sometimes can't even message each other. If you really need to reach a person and their number is obviously a cellphone, then by calling that person, you've accepted the cost of doing so. It's very convenient in situations where there's a teenager with an empty prepaid account (happens very often). Seems less fair in America, when someone is pestering you with SMSes, and you actually pay for receiving them. Or a phone salesman calls you (some of us answer calls from obscured caller IDs). Just seems pretty fair. You pay extra for calling abroad, even from America, so why is it not fair to pay the extra cash for routing the call through wireless equipment?

    29. Re:Double dipping by ColdWetDog · · Score: 1

      Except for the fact that you'd need to be Karl Rove in order to have everyone's cell number, that would probably work. Oh, and I'm sure that the congress-critter's phone actually is paid for by somebody else. I doubt they would even know what a cell phone bill looked like.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    30. Re:Double dipping by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Learn how phones work. There are multiple ways to send data, and they have different costs associated with them.

      So which moron designed texts to use the more expensive way to send data regardless of the service available?

    31. Re:Double dipping by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Have a day when everyone in the country sends an SMS to their senator and their representative and see how long the practice is allowed to stand when every politician has mobile phone bills in the tens or hundreds of thousands.

      Your senator or representative would get these reimbursed as official business (communicating with their constituents, you see!), and it'll get rolled into next year's taxes...

    32. Re:Double dipping by Shakrai · · Score: 2, Insightful

      and since Europe is standardized on GSM there's no issues like in America where people on different operators sometimes can't even message each other

      Where the hell did you get that idea from? I'm not aware of any carrier whose customers can't message people on another carrier. And what does GSM have to do with that? Different carriers being able to communicate with each other has nothing to do with the underlying cellular technology and everything to do with routing on the global POTS network.

      You pay extra for calling abroad, even from America, so why is it not fair to pay the extra cash for routing the call through wireless equipment?

      Because you are effectively making your friends pay for your privilege of having a wireless phone. In the American model the wireless customer pays for that privilege and the people seeking to call him aren't penalized because of his choice of phone service.

      Like I said, I don't pretend to know which one is more "fair" and I'm not really interested in a debate about it -- my original point was that pointing out that Europe gets free incoming calls is only half the story.

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    33. Re:Double dipping by Abattoir · · Score: 1

      Sprint's charging $0.20 each for these now-a-day (unless you have another plan of some sort). It's just the latest ripoff in the mobile phone industry. Are people not getting unlimited text plans? Seriously? I've had one on my current phone for the last year (on Sprint no less) and its $10/mo. I get over 300 messages a month from system alerts. Sometimes 300 a week :-). I often send more than that, in ad-hoc communication with my team, both about the alerts and other things when I'm in the data center and can't use IM.
    34. Re:Double dipping by Solandri · · Score: 1

      Getting dinged $0.20 per spam SMS? That's a bit more annoying. There's no way to refuse a text message (on Sprint, at least). And thanks to the email-to-SMS gateway, the spammer doesn't get charged a penny. (I'm noticing that a huge percentage of spam I receive on my regular account is, for some strange reason, under 160 characters.)
      If you're with Sprint, just sign up for a Sprint SERO plan. It's cheaper than all of Sprint's regular plans, and they're tossing in free unlimited text until the end of the month (it will stay free and unlimited afterwards, just the promotion ends at the end of the month).
    35. Re:Double dipping by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Get Palringo and you can use IM and possibly send SMS for free.

    36. Re:Double dipping by Saberwind · · Score: 1

      And those of us outside Europe consider it absurd to have to pay for a television license.

    37. Re:Double dipping by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Unless your on Sero where all text messages are free. I love Sprint and Sero. Unlimited text and picture mail, data and 500 mins a month for $30.

    38. Re:Double dipping by dedazo · · Score: 1

      Clearly you have not met our friend, the US telecomm industry.

      --
      Web2.0: I love when people Flickr my cuil and digg my boingboing until my google is reddit and I start to yahoo
    39. Re:Double dipping by dankasfuk · · Score: 1

      Yeah...because I'm sure they all personally pay their own cell phone bill.

      --
      Ban Engadget - moderators censor comments!
    40. Re:Double dipping by SillyNickName · · Score: 1

      And those of us outside Europe consider it absurd to have to pay for a television license.
      In the US we don't call it a "license", we call it a "subscription" (cable, satellite).
    41. Re:Double dipping by mr_mischief · · Score: 1

      This depends a great deal on your carrier. U.S. Cellular is mine, and things are a bit different.

      I don't pay for incoming calls or incoming texts. I get 900 minutes to anywhere in the US, nights between 2100 and 0900 free, weekends from 2100 Fridays to 0900 Monday free, free calls to everyone on the same network, free calls to my voicemail from anywhere in the US, roaming's included across the US and parts of Canada, and I get unlimited Net data use on the phone. I pay about $71 a month including taxes and fees.

      There are downsides, too, though. My unlimited data only works through a WAP proxy, and they want $4.99 more a month to give me access to a real web browser not limited to their WAP proxy with limited content. My data plan is limited to use by the phone for the phone, and isn't for use as a modem by a laptop. It's possible for me to set up my own WAP proxy for the phone, though, and I've played with one as a toy but I found I really only check what's on their limited plan from my phone anyway. Others might want to read whole full-size websites from their phone, but not me. I'd really like if they let me use the phone for my PC's data needs for that $10 part of my plan, but of course that's not going to happen.

    42. Re:Double dipping by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      With Sprint, you can have the SMS service disabled on your phone, you just have to be persistent and, in my case, ask to speak to supervisor and (nicely) demand that you have it disabled. From what I was able to determine, the front-line agent I spoke to was unable to disable that service due to access-restrictions of management instructions.

    43. Re:Double dipping by mr_mischief · · Score: 1

      In several parts of the US, there is the option to get a carrier that doesn't charge for incomding texts. U.S. Cellular is one of those, at least on most plans.

    44. Re:Double dipping by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      privilege of having a wireless phone
      WTF? Privilege? I don't even know anyone who has a landline. I haven't had one since the early 90's. Even my mom does not have a landline. Only some offices have landlines.
    45. Re:Double dipping by aztektum · · Score: 1

      You should care about receiving. It's still fuckin' stupid.

      --
      :: aztek ::
      No sig for you!!
    46. Re:Double dipping by Shakrai · · Score: 1

      WTF? Privilege? I don't even know anyone who has a landline. I haven't had one since the early 90's. Even my mom does not have a landline. Only some offices have landlines.

      Mind telling me how your rant about the death of landlines is relevant to my point that the people who call you shouldn't have to pay extra because you have a wireless instead of wireline phone? That's actually what the discussion was about.

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    47. Re:Double dipping by zitch · · Score: 1

      So which moron designed texts to use the more expensive way to send data regardless of the service available?

      The "moron" that sold you the phone?
    48. Re:Double dipping by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You forgot to call him a fucking idiot.

    49. Re:Double dipping by maxwell+demon · · Score: 1

      Indeed, once I've seen an ad for a phone service here in Germany where you got payed for receiving phone calls. Well, maybe I should have gotten one, and then made sure that the number gets on the list of every phone spammer ... :-)

      --
      The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
    50. Re:Double dipping by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Uh...don't we pay for that as well?

    51. Re:Double dipping by caluml · · Score: 1

      Option 3a. Getting the mobile number of your Senator, and one that can't be expense claimed back from the tax payer.

    52. Re:Double dipping by raynet · · Score: 1

      And hope that they don't know how to turn off their phone. Too bad you can only deliver about 500000 SMS per month under optimum recieving conditions.

      --
      - Raynet --> .
    53. Re:Double dipping by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      so you have timed landline calls? and you're trying to say that it's better than elsewhere in the world? try again

    54. Re:Double dipping by DrMorris · · Score: 1

      Different carriers being able to communicate with each other has nothing to do with the underlying cellular technology and everything to do with routing on the global POTS network. Oh yes it does, at least regarding SMS. The transition from GSM to CDMA (and back) is not as smooth as you might think, at least not from my experience. I'm sure this is different for voice calls, however for SMS such routes are quite troublesome.
    55. Re:Double dipping by denzacar · · Score: 1

      You have a rather low 4 digit slashdot ID.
      Get some of them hacker friends of yours to provide you with the cell numbers needed.

      BTW... aim for the female parts of the family instead. Mothers, wives and daughters... Can't write those expenses off.
      And send messages using your friend's phone. It is much more fun when someone else is charged for harassment.

      --
      Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
    56. Re:Double dipping by diamondmagic · · Score: 1

      And suggest that government take over the cost of SMS? When was the last time they did anything right? A much more effective practice would be to send it all to some CEO.

      I don't know if anyone mentioned this yet, but compare the Hubble dedicated data pipe (kinda) to the SMS service that millions of people want to use, and tell me why supply and demand should not apply.

      If prices are too high, we need to either increase the width of the data pipe (which isn't really the problem), or increase the supply of reliable cell providers (which is).

    57. Re:Double dipping by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      that is actually an awesome idea. Now we just have to get the cell phone number of our senators.

    58. Re:Double dipping by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Interestingly, that's why we don't have it.

      Some anonymous phone phreaker (*coughs* who shall remain anonymous) used a team of wardialers and dinged an NTL executive for quite a lot of money when the idea was first floated.

      Of course his bill got written off... but the idea of paying to receive phone calls was never floated again.

    59. Re:Double dipping by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe in your backwards country mate. Not here.

    60. Re:Double dipping by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They don't charge in Canada either.

    61. Re:Double dipping by swarsron · · Score: 1

      well, at least in germany there are laws against such behaviour of corporations. Those comsumer protection laws were passed because people don't tolerate stuff like that here so it does matter what people think (in regard to this probably not too important stuff)

    62. Re:Double dipping by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's the same here in Australia. We only pay to send messages and make calls.

  11. Other costs? by catbertscousin · · Score: 1

    How much does it cost the carrier to transmit the data? Is texting ultimately more expensive than calling?

    --
    No good deed goes unpunished. - Avon, Blake's 7
    1. Re:Other costs? by MozeeToby · · Score: 4, Informative

      I'm not sure the exact costs that the carriers incure when people send a text message but I do remember this:

      After the freeway collapse in Mineapollis last year, the cell companies told people to text rather than call in large emergencies because it uses significantly less resources.

    2. Re:Other costs? by praxis · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You're probably right that text messaging takes fewer resources but the little devil on my shoulder just hinted to me that that statement could have been motivated by their desire to increase their profit.

    3. Re:Other costs? by MozeeToby · · Score: 1

      It's possible, I sopose, but I doubt they would have risked the PR. At the time they were taking a serious beating due to network failures at a time when people were truly counting on them.

      People couldn't contact their loved ones because the networks were all but crashed and, for a change, people were pissed about it. Imagine if someone had accused them of using the disaster to pad their profits...

    4. Re:Other costs? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      SMS use an out of band signalling, so it does not impact the data carrying ability of the network.

      The approximate underlying cost of data is about 1 to 2 cents a megabyte. Most mobile operators today remain profitable because of SMS. If they dropped the price, then voice calls would have to rise to make up that loss. All in all SMS is about 1000 times more profitable than just raw data. SMS is also nearly a free lunch - a backend SMSC is cheap there days.

    5. Re:Other costs? by beelsebob · · Score: 1

      Even assuming that this were true, let's analyse what you claim: By sending text messages instead of phoning, they increase their profit -- i.e. exactly as the OP said, text messages use less network capacity, for more money!

    6. Re:Other costs? by raynet · · Score: 1

      SMSing is better because the phone can queue the message and try again if the cell tower is busy, also even if all voice channels are full, signaling channel isn't and will recieve and send messages to and from phones.

      --
      - Raynet --> .
  12. SMS was initially free by awjr · · Score: 4, Informative

    If you look into the dim and distant past SMS was a free service that came with your phone 'package'. Then they realised they could actually make money from it.

    Ironically the price of an SMS is dropping and it actually costs somebody who 'bulk' buys 10000 messages around about 1.5p .

    My concern is that it is getting so cheap, that I've already started receiving spam SMS.

    As an aside, some companies now provide a SIM card hosting service. So if you can get the right package from an Operator (e.g. unlimited SMS messages) there is nothing to stop you spamming the world.

    Thankfully 'clicking' on any links is not so simple and most people realise clicking actually costs them money.

    1. Re:SMS was initially free by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have a plan from Sprint that was circa 2003. Four phones share 2000 minutes. Each phone has unlimited internet, SMS, MMS, roaming, pictures, video sending and a $10 credit for ringers, games, apps, and some off the wall stuff like NFL mobile, Nascar and a couple of other things I never use.

      With my discount from work which is 20%, I pay about $130/month total AFTER taxes/fees/recovery charges/surcharges. Even without the discount, it would be about $150. There is nothing with any carrier that even comes close to that and has not come close to that in years. A lot of plans look like really good deals but once you start adding up the nickel and dime charges, it gets expensive quick.

      I will keep this plan until Sprint forcably prys it from my cold dead hands.

      The point is, look over your plans really carefully before agreeing to a new contract. Those cheap incentives on new phones may look great but you will pay for it in the end with extra fees that you may not have had before. I get my phones used from Ebay/Craigslist and I have not been in an actual contract with Sprint since my initial one expired in 2005.

  13. Did Hubble spot the costs? by DSW-128 · · Score: 1
    Hubble is by no means a cheap mission â" but the mobile phone text costs were pretty astronomical!

    Does that mean they used Hubble to find the costs?

    --
    This .sig is printed on 100% recycled electrons, but is best viewed using 100% fresh photons.
  14. 5p per message isn't that bad by El_Muerte_TDS · · Score: 4, Informative

    In the Netherlands 0.25 euro (16p or $0.38) per message is quite common. For that price I can call 1.67 minutes.

    But that doesn't matter for me. I don't use text messages for the simple reason that I don't think it's worth the price.

    1. Re:5p per message isn't that bad by nogginthenog · · Score: 2, Insightful

      5p is far too low. The average in the UK is probably double that.

    2. Re:5p per message isn't that bad by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      SMS here in the UK is usually around the same cost as a minute of calling. If you've got a question, then it will cost you and the person you are asking the same amount as two minutes of voice, so why not just call, ask, and hang up?

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    3. Re:5p per message isn't that bad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In Denmark, a price of 0.013â or 1p per message is very common.

      I actually think that's a pretty fair rate.

    4. Re:5p per message isn't that bad by KingJ · · Score: 2, Informative

      It varies, with most networks it's around 10p, but some do offer 'bundles' which work out at 5p per text. The vast majority though pay 10p I suspect. Complete ripoff, I try not to text, especially if I know it's going to be one of those 'conversation' texts.

      At least we don't pay for receiving texts/calls. That idea just seems absurd to me.

      --
      I rent game servers, see my homepage for more information
    5. Re:5p per message isn't that bad by Oktober+Sunset · · Score: 1

      You can receive and reply to texts in a meeting or a lecture, and not disturb everyone.

    6. Re:5p per message isn't that bad by AGMW · · Score: 1
      What I dislike about texts most is the assumption you will text them back! If you've got a question then call me and I'll try and answer it - if you text me the question it's going to cost _me_ money to text you back the answer!

      That said, at least we don't pay to recieve text messages in the UK (Europe) - that's totally crazy!

      --
      Eclectic beats from Leeds, UK
      handmadehands.co.uk
    7. Re:5p per message isn't that bad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In India,

      We pay 10 paise per sms. A US$ is 40 rupees.

      1 USD$ = 40 rupees
      1 rupee = 100 paise

      So, according to my calculation, each sms that we send in India costs US$ 0.0025 or 0.25 cents.

      That is not 25 cents, its 0.25 cents. So if you send 4 messages, you will be charged 1 cent.

      Receiving is free, whether its calls or SMSes.

      Wow, suddenly, I feel ecstatic to be living in India!

    8. Re:5p per message isn't that bad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In Denmark the prices for text messages is around 0.025 euro so 0.25 euro seems very expensive.
      But the teenagers have their 25 euro pr. month free text message subscriptions :D
      I sure don't have the urge to send 500+ messages a day. Maybe I'm getting old or something?

  15. [Sigh...] Not again... by superphreak · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Has anyone looked into "Unlimited Texting" recently? With Cingular/AT&T: Unlimited text, photo, video, and instant messaging for everyone on a family plan: $30. Maximum number of people on a family plan: 5.

    30/5 = $6 for unlimited texting.

    Ok, that doesn't include the cost of the voice part of the plan that you obviously need to have.

    I don't know the maximum size of a MMS, but it's under a MB, around 700k I think. That'll move data around pretty quick-like, too.

    Next...

    --
    Evolution is a state-sponsored, state-protected religion.
    1. Re:[Sigh...] Not again... by mrchaotica · · Score: 1

      There are two reasons why that's not a good solution:

      • You have to have 5 people on the plan. Not everybody can manage that!
      • Even $6 is way too fucking expensive for what you get! I mean, come on! We're talking about 160 bytes per message here. That's so much less data than a phone call, it should be negligable, and therefore free once you've paid for a reasonable phone plan (i.e., everything except pay-as-you-go, just to stop people from sending a million messages while making zero calls).
      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    2. Re:[Sigh...] Not again... by magicchex · · Score: 1

      I have the same deal with T-mobile for up to 5 people for $10/month. I use it across 4 phones currently.

      --
      How many fulltime jobs can one man have?
    3. Re:[Sigh...] Not again... by superphreak · · Score: 1

      I guess we're all getting ripped off and don't know it... ;)

      --
      Evolution is a state-sponsored, state-protected religion.
  16. Supply and Demand by facemcgiblets · · Score: 1

    I saw this reported on a TV show a couple weeks ago amid much outcry... but just as with pretty much everything else, the price of an SMS is set acording to supply and demand. If enough people are willing to pay 5p per message, then that's what the carriers are going to charge!

    1. Re:Supply and Demand by AndersOSU · · Score: 1

      "Laws" of supply and demand in a free market and under monopolies, oligopolies and cartels are radically different.

    2. Re:Supply and Demand by mr_mischief · · Score: 1

      They're not really that different. A monopoly, oligopoly, or cartel just artificially limits supply.

      Here are different inputs to supply and demand: subsidies artificially increase supply (and therefore often artificially increase demand), monopolies artificially limit supply (and sometimes artificially limit demand due to the high price, in favor of margins over total revenue), embargoes artificially limit supply (which often leads to black and gray markets), price caps artificially increase demand (by keeping the deterrent to purchase out of the way), excises artificially lower demand, tariffs restrict both supply and demand in the importing country and raise supply in the exporting country, production limits artificially reduce supply and sometimes psychologically induce increased demand (think collectibles like Beanie Babies)

      Nothing really breaks the laws of supply and demand. There are many ways, though, to finagle them.

  17. old chatter by luvtheedragon · · Score: 2, Interesting

    This has been a pretty well know fact in the tech community. the mobile carriers have been overcharging everybody. almost 7 to 10 years back India had one of the most expensive mobile communication, but for the last 2 years it has been one of the cheapest areas, while this process of cost cutting was under way a rally was called for networks providing free SMSs always. The SMS text is sent in just the connectivity with the carrier tower connectivity signaling. No special protocol has to be envoked nor any special services to be provided. So the burden on the network is less than nominal.

  18. Total Bullshit from the very beginning by EdIII · · Score: 4, Informative

    and we assume the average price for a text message is 5p
    That is an assumption and most likely pretty conservative. There are plenty of SMS text messages sent/received by complete idiots that spend 99c per message. I am not attempting to troll here either. Those people are COMPLETE IDIOTS to spend that kind of money on a simple text message. I am always reminded of the saying, "A fool and his money are soon parted".

    So when you factor in these novelty SMS messages, the ratio becomes much worse.

    I have never seen any hard data on the actual costs of sending a SMS message across GSM/CDMA cell towers, but I expect that the profit margins on a SMS message make Monster look positively razor thin with it's own margins.

    The reason why anyone with a brain (even a damaged/inebriated/mutated one) can see how ridiculous the price points on SMS is pretty simple.

    Take a mid-range T-Mobile calling plan. Say the individual 1000 minutes for 49.99$. That is 4.9c per MINUTE of a telephone conversation.

    Until quite recently, a SMS text message plan did not have unlimited messages. They do have this now for 14.99$ at T-Mobile. The plan right below that? 9.99$ a month for 1000 messages. Yep, that is 1c per text message. I had always remembered plans that were 250 messages for 4.99$ at various places, which is 1.9c per text message.

    So does anyone really beleive that a SMS text message can cost 20-25% as much as a minute of a cellphone call?

    I certainly didn't think so. Raise your hands if you think that is right. Anyone? Anyone at all?

    SMS was ALWAYS their little cash machine. Most people never paid attention to it, or considered the real costs involved and I would bet 4-5 digit profit margins at a minimum for the past decade.
    1. Re:Total Bullshit from the very beginning by Freeside1 · · Score: 1

      And another thing:
      phone calls need to have very little to no delay, imagine having to wait a few seconds between each things you say to see if your friend has a reply.
      but texts, the telcoms can really send those whenever it costs them the least

    2. Re:Total Bullshit from the very beginning by markov_chain · · Score: 1

      I send 5 messages a month at $0.50 a piece. The unlimited plan costs $30 per month. Who is the complete idiot again?

      --
      Tsunami -- You can't bring a good wave down!
    3. Re:Total Bullshit from the very beginning by Splab · · Score: 2, Insightful

      No they can't.

      SMS is for most people instant messaging - just like E-mail has become. Yes this is not what was intended, but this is what consumers expect. If a telecom doesn't deliver SMS within a very small timeframe people will find a new carrier.

    4. Re:Total Bullshit from the very beginning by EdIII · · Score: 1

      I am not talking about the plans. I am talking about the text messages that cost 99c themselves in ADDITION to the costs from the carriers. THAT is complete idiocy.

      The fact you are on the super duper cheapo SMS plan only means that you have figured out that you are NEVER going to send that many text messages in your life to justify those costs. 2.50$ is far less than 30$ a month, which means you are ahead in the mental health assessment part of this test :)

    5. Re:Total Bullshit from the very beginning by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I spend $30 a month for unlimited texting on my cellular account. That comes out to $6.00/month per phone. I use text messaging for things such as traffic reports, and I get notifications when I get a voice mail on my Vonage.

      Using text messages is also nice if you need to tell someone something, but don't have time to call them, tell them something, then try to get them off the phone.

      Texting is also good if there is something important you need to communicate, but the environment does not lend itself well to a phone call...Would you rather be a restaurant where the person in the booth next to you is sending text messages, or the person is yelling on their cell phone? What about if they legalize cell phones on planes?

      I don't really think of texting as a substitute for talking on the phone, but merely another form of communication entirely.

      The nice thing about the character limit is that it forces people to be concise with their message....they don't ramble on as is common with emails or phone conversations.

      I agree that the costs involved with texting are extremely high, but I find enough uses to justify the cost.

    6. Re:Total Bullshit from the very beginning by magarity · · Score: 1

      So does anyone really beleive that a SMS text message can cost 20-25% as much as a minute of a cellphone call?
       
      I've never figured out why the pricing isnt the opposite - Since the phone (as a device) only uses the network for an instant to log in to send an SMS compared to yakking a few minutes on a call, they should encourage them instead of giving unlimited calling and charging for SMS. Why not charge by the minute to talk and send SMS as part of the basic charge?

    7. Re:Total Bullshit from the very beginning by jandrese · · Score: 1

      You don't have to subscribe to the $30/month plan. I have a $5/250 messages plan on my phone. I use maybe 20 or 30 of them (typically in short bursts), but compared to $0.25/message it still works out usually. It's a tremendous ripoff regardless, but sometimes it's all you have. You can't set up a phone call in a noisy environment because the other person won't understand what you're saying anyway, and you don't want to make calls on train or plane or whatnot because it's rude.

      --

      I read the internet for the articles.
    8. Re:Total Bullshit from the very beginning by jonbryce · · Score: 1

      A delay of around a minute is fine though. That would be completely unacceptable for a voice call.

    9. Re:Total Bullshit from the very beginning by ryanov · · Score: 1

      and you don't want to make calls on train or plane or whatnot because it's rude. If only you weren't one of 27 people on the planet that know that. :( This is why I use text far more than phone -- text doesn't make noise, and generally if I'm out, I can't be making noise.
    10. Re:Total Bullshit from the very beginning by xant · · Score: 1

      Not to mention an instant message! If AIM (which I use via Pidgin) took a minute to deliver my instant message, it would be completely worthless and would never have taken off. And although both services occasionally drop messages, at least AIM usually tells me when it happens. SMS never does.

      I use SMS every day (I have an unlimited plan), but the margins they receive on it are way, way out of proportion with any measure of the quality of the service.

      --
      It's rare that you're presented with a knob whose only two positions are Make History and Flee Your Glorious Destiny.
    11. Re:Total Bullshit from the very beginning by xant · · Score: 1

      When I discovered Google calendar will SMS you appointments for free, my usage of my unlimited plan went way up, and I'm much better organized now.

      I also use SMS to text people who don't always answer their phone (for a variety of reasons), but will, I know, eventually respond to texts. I.e. brief, non-urgent info ("I'm on my way home, honey.")

      --
      It's rare that you're presented with a knob whose only two positions are Make History and Flee Your Glorious Destiny.
    12. Re:Total Bullshit from the very beginning by SillyNickName · · Score: 1

      There are plenty of SMS text messages sent/received by complete idiots that spend 99c per message. I am not attempting to troll here either. Those people are COMPLETE IDIOTS to spend that kind of money on a simple text message.
      If they have no choice but to receive messages, how does that make them idiots?
    13. Re:Total Bullshit from the very beginning by The+Standard+Deviant · · Score: 0

      Have you tried turning on the status report function on your phone? Most of them have this, buried in the settings somewhere. You get a message sent to you telling you whether the message was delivered, not delivered, or delayed, and if it wasn't delivered, you receive another when it does eventually get delivered (e.g. if someone had their phone turned off and switches it on again). It doesn't cost anything extra, at least in the UK.

    14. Re:Total Bullshit from the very beginning by FrankieBaby1986 · · Score: 1

      yes, but it is still orders of magnitude off. A vast majority of people will be willing to accept a 5 minute delay for their text message to get through, NO ONE will accept a 5 minute delay on their cell phone call. Anything more than .5 seconds would be completely unacceptable.

      --
      ERROR: SIG NOT FOUND (A)bort, (R)etry, (F)ail?:
    15. Re:Total Bullshit from the very beginning by magicchex · · Score: 1

      On top of which, with texts you can A. get straight to the point rather than wasting air waiting for the person on the phone to come around to what they're actually calling you about and B. reply when it's convenient for you, whether that is immediately or in 5 or 30 minutes. I find everything about texting to be superior to phone calls.

      --
      How many fulltime jobs can one man have?
    16. Re:Total Bullshit from the very beginning by EdIII · · Score: 1

      You did not understand what I was talking about. I was referring to those messages that have fees above and beyond the carrier fees. You would have to agree to that before hand. If you did agree to that before hand, then you are an idiot. An example would be those ridiculous services that purport to send you messages from cute girls, or the fee you spend to send a SMS text message to American Idol or Deal or No Deal. That is complete idiocy and I was not saying that to troll, i just strongly feel that it is stupid beyond measure.

    17. Re:Total Bullshit from the very beginning by Splab · · Score: 2, Interesting

      No they wont.

      SMS is expected to arrive instantly these days. Here in Denmark SMS can cost down to 1 øre while just making a call is 25 øre, so people have begun using SMS as communication instead of calls - and thus expect it to be instant.

  19. unlimited plan? by Luyseyal · · Score: 1

    So... get an unlimited plan? Oh wait, they charge you extra for the privilege of never using your voice minutes to cover the cost of the text messaging, which itself is entirely negligible. Negligible on the scale of non-spam email vs total Internet bandwidth negligible. This gouging is just so painful to observe.

    For the record, I hate text messages except for those occasional times when they make sense (finding someone at a loud concert, e.g.). Paying an outrageous rate both inbound and outbound for 140 bytes is entirely ridiculous.

    Yeargh! End of rant.

    -l

    --
    Help cure AIDS, cancer, and more. Donate your unused computer time to worldcommunitygrid.org. Join Team Slashdot!
  20. Hmm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    Actually, the standard rate for text messaging in the UK is 10p, not 5p

    1. Re:Hmm by GuldKalle · · Score: 1

      Wow, that's a lot! In Denmark it's about 2p from most operators. I can't really see how that can be justified, the population density of UK is about 2 times that of DK, and gdp/capita is within 1% of each other.
      Just goes to show that prices and cost has very little to do with each other in this market.

      --
      What?
    2. Re:Hmm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      While 10p is the nominal charge most people on contracts will have inclusive texts (often several hundred) and even on pay as you go you can generally opt to bulk buy text credits which gets the price down.

    3. Re:Hmm by apt-get+moo · · Score: 1

      But in Australia, it's free as in beer!

      --
      ...."Have you mooed today?"...
    4. Re:Hmm by actionbastard · · Score: 1

      So that means the problem is twice as bad as TFA makes it out to be?
      I'm shocked! Shocked, I tell you!

      --
      Sig this!
    5. Re:Hmm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not on Tesco Value Mobile!

  21. This just in... by DanWS6 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Ink for your printer is more expensive than gasoline for your car. Where's the justice?

    1. Re:This just in... by caluml · · Score: 2, Funny

      ... $120... $130... $140... But not for long!

    2. Re:This just in... by Hyppy · · Score: 2, Interesting

      HP sells their inkjet ink for nearly 8,000 USD per gallon. Interestingly enough, many smaller companies who specialize in refill packs sell 5-gallon jugs of ink for around 350 USD. That's only 70 USD or so a gallon.

      We're climbing there, but who is to say that the rising cost of oil won't proportionally increase the cost of ink?

    3. Re:This just in... by tepples · · Score: 2, Informative

      HP sells their inkjet ink for nearly 8,000 USD per gallon. That's because each ink tank comes with a print head that hasn't yet been clogged with ink.
    4. Re:This just in... by ^_^x · · Score: 1

      There are reasons such as potability and safe and sanitary handling behind it, but I always thought it was funny that a dollar will get you several times more gasoline than bottled water.

    5. Re:This just in... by mr_mischief · · Score: 1

      I can't wait til I can get a tap of gasoline into my sink for the type of savings I get on tap water over bottled. ;-)

      Seriously, though. Bottled water at $1.50 a liter? My wife and I spend $25-30 a quarter year on tap water for drinking, washing dishes, washing clothes, showers, baths, steaming the carpets, water gun fights, flushing toilets, and washing household surfaces. I've paid far more in other cities, but still nowhere near $1.50 a liter. I guess it helps that I'm using a city-owned bulk distribution network and I live along one of the world's biggest rivers.

      If we had the same price discrepancy on gasoline, it'd be cheaper to generate our own electricity from that instead of using the grid. Hell, we'd probably try to figure out safe ways to cook with it, heat with it, and dilute it to use as a cleaning solvent.

    6. Re:This just in... by permaculture · · Score: 1

      At least your car doesn't waste half of the petrol you put into it.

      The Dirty Little Secret of Inkjet Printers [VIDEO]
      http://uneasysilence.com/archive/2008/04/13130/
      or here:
      http://www.metacafe.com/watch/1181828/the_dirty_little_secret_of_inkjet_printers/

      --
      Environmentalism is the new Victorianism. Everyone ties on a green corset and pretends we're virtuous.
  22. Apples to Telescopes? by abolitiontheory · · Score: 1
    This is apples to oranges: A not-for-profit scientific endeavor vs. a profit driven, squeeze-the-customer-for-all-their-worth service of the cellular phone industry. This is, of course, the point, but its not surprising in the least, kind of the like the cost of ink.

    So is this really newsworthy, unless new information is brought to light, like the actual cost of text messaging or the antequated data networks being used to transmit this information, which account for the exponentially high costs?

    To reiterate, this is obvious when you think about it: there is no profit motive to sending data to and from the hubble space telescope. The rates he's giving are the price of text messages--market value--, not the cost of transmission.

    Here's a question for a better comparison: how much would it cost to buy a photograph directly from the hubble telescope?

    1. Re:Apples to Telescopes? by pimpimpim · · Score: 1

      Oh? What happened to the popular belief that all governmental-driven projects are money wasters, and everything should be left to the safe and efficient hands of the market economy?

      --
      molmod.com - computing tips from a molecular modeling
  23. The opposite is true in Japan by Guanine · · Score: 5, Interesting

    From what I've heard, the opposite is true in Japan: their voice plans are expensive compared to ours, whereas unlimited text messages are the norm. This makes more sense because voice is clearly the more bandwidth hungry form of communication.

    I'm told that the driving factor behind this unlimited texting is that it is considered very rude to talk on your phone in public/the subway/etc. Hence texting as the dominant type of communication. Can anyone confirm/correct me on this?

    1. Re:The opposite is true in Japan by taupter · · Score: 2, Insightful

      ... and typing those Kanji in a mobile phone keyboard must be a royal PITA btw. :)

    2. Re:The opposite is true in Japan by Karpe · · Score: 1

      That's mostly true, although carriers started charging much less for basic plans after the introduction of number portability (except Docomo, of course, as the market leader). SMSes are free, but you cannot exchange SMSes between carriers, and so are not very popular. What is really popular for messaging is MMS, which costs around 2 yen. And MMSes are hardly sent to phone numbers, but to email addresses in the carriers domain, so people usually don't message other people when they were not explicitely given the MMS address. Since anyone with an email can write to these email addresses, spam has become a very big problem. Ah, the fact that SMSes are not common in Japan is what gives me confidence that MMSes are coming to the 3G iPhone... :)

    3. Re:The opposite is true in Japan by blueforce · · Score: 2, Informative

      You're correct. I was just in Tokyo a couple of weeks ago. In most places - restaurants, buses, trains, etc. - it's expressly forbidden to talk on mobile phones. But look around and you see nearly everyone's thumbs going a million miles per hour.

      --
      If you do what you always did, you get what you always got.
    4. Re:The opposite is true in Japan by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      I believe they actually make use of email primarily over SMS. Since they already have the infrastructure in place for carrying all that standard data.

      And you'd be right that the driving factor is rudeness/etc. On a train or subway there, you'd almost never see anyone talking over their cellphone and if they were, they'd be getting a few odd looks from other passengers. Unlike here say, where people talk on them no matter where they are, often a little too loudly.

    5. Re:The opposite is true in Japan by Kpau · · Score: 1

      Actually, its very rude to talk on your phone like that in the US as well. We just seem to have a lot more rude idiots that look like they're off their medication chatting into thin air. (I love it when I'm making a purchasing decision and some moron starts jabbering out loud about whether they should buy 2% or skim milk right next to me. Then when I make a suggestion, they act like *I'm* the one looking psychotic :) ).

    6. Re:The opposite is true in Japan by Orinthe · · Score: 1

      Actually, unlimited ANYTHING in Japan is extremely expensive... but Japanese phones all have their own email addresses and support full email (no crappy 160-character limit), and at least with the carrier I had (AU), both you and the recipient are charged for how many packets are required to upload/download the message (a "packet" is actually about the size of a text message, I think 128 bytes). This rate, however, is on the order of 0.15 yen per packet, or just over 1/10th of a cent or less than 1/10th of a pence.

      There are also more SMS-like services (very limited-length, free-to-receive) that are limited to messages whose senders and recipients are both on the same network. These are a little more expensive, but still less than a penny a pop.

      --
      SELECT quote.text AS sig FROM quote NATURAL JOIN attribute WHERE attribute.description = 'witty';
      0 rows returned
    7. Re:The opposite is true in Japan by Jorophose · · Score: 1

      I've heard about that...

      And of course, when you're sitting in a fairly packed subway every morning on your way to work, do you really want to hear somebody talking on their phone? A text message is discreet.

      Not to mention my friends would be over that in an instant; you wouldn't believe the amount of texting that goes on in classrooms. Teachers, if you're browsing slashdot, always keep that in mind. Of course you can easily tell 99% of the time; hunched in a way, eyes drifting constantly, hands always in the same place...

      Personally I'm not a fan of current SMS. I want to have an all-OS, USB device, that allows me to access the internet from anywhere, for 10$-20$ a month (even though it's probably not possible). Dialup speeds are good, actually more than enough. It would be much nicer to carry around an HP Mininote or smaller UMPC, and email/IM friends instead of trying to button mash for half an hour trying to print out a short sentence... Considering I have friends who pay 10$ a month over their plans to get unlimmited texting, this would be so much better.

      Alternatively, the idiots running the cell companies should reimburse me these crazy fees every month if I refuse to text. And there should be an option to delete the text messaging service; it's possible to do it on plenty of phones but all it does is stop you from sending.

    8. Re:The opposite is true in Japan by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I moved to Japan a couple of months ago and grabbed a pre-paid phone for about 12000yen (115USD). It's a fairly nice and simple phone.

      The prepaid cards are 3000yen each, and it costs 300yen a month for unlimited email sending. I'm not sure exactly how long the voice will last for that, but I think it's a touch expensive.

      While people use phones here for voice rather frequently, it typically tends to be in out of the way places, you don't always hear someone talking on the phone nearby.

      I'm sure the phone companies would be crushed under the weight of their own money if they charged similar SMS prices here, but it sure is nice to just be able to send emails from a mobile device on a whim, without paying absurd amounts.

    9. Re:The opposite is true in Japan by Kanasta · · Score: 2, Informative

      in Japan nobody uses SMS. Phones send/rec proper emails with a proper email address. Costs start from 0.9yen, going up to 2-3yen if you send 5000 character mails.

    10. Re:The opposite is true in Japan by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nah, you just write hiragana and the kanji pop up automatically.

    11. Re:The opposite is true in Japan by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When I lived in the Philippines three years ago it was 1 piso to send a text and I think about 5-6 pisos per minute for a call to another cell phone. A call to a landline was 8+ pisos IIRC. So your statement about Japan seems quite likely.

  24. when you assume... by Freeside1 · · Score: 1

    ...and we assume the average price for a text message is 5p... for the average consumer maybe... but you're a crackhead if you think it actually costs a telcom 5 p to deliver 140 bytes at their leisure.
  25. I think my head just exploded by argmanah · · Score: 2, Insightful

    You're comparing cost versus retail price of two things massively different in scale in terms (cost per MB) that is completely meaningless in the world of SMS. Could you possibly have made a more pointless comparison?

    My computing time is 4x more valuable analyzing Seti@home data as opposed to loading this article up on /.

    --
    Overrated Moderation: This posts sucks... because.
  26. Japan text messaging by Khisanth+Magus · · Score: 2, Informative

    Japanese cell phone plans are universally calculated by amount of data transmitted and not minutes/# of text messages. It is actually significantly more economical to text message someone on a Japanese cell phone network than it is to call them, as the calls eat up your data allotment very quickly. As a result you will very rarely see people talking on cell phones over there, instead they just text. Of course, as a result they can type of text messages at an astonishing rate.

    1. Re:Japan text messaging by harmony7 · · Score: 1

      Sorry, this might be off topic but I wanted to point out that voice and data are not charged together in Japan.

      The bill has three sections: voice, data, content.

      Generally speaking, it's still very expensive to make voice calls here in Japan (a typical plan would charge 20 yen + tax per 30-minute interval), regardless of the carrier of the number you're calling. And unlike in the US, you don't get free "minutes" but instead you get a number of yen credit towards voice calls every month (amount depending on the plan).

      In Japan, the price of sending text messages (which are actually MMS's) counts towards your entire "packet transfer total", and most people get the "unlimited packet transfer" package anyway (which caps at like 4000 yen a month). People use the internet on their phones quite a bit in Japan. In fact, I even access slashdot several times a day using it.

      Many people have no problems buying DRM-plastered games and ringtones either, it seems, so I bet most people's bill there runs several thousand yen a month too. But downloading a 3 megabyte ringtone (ringtones can be full 3-4 minute tracks at 128kbps) would run up 5000 yen in data costs if it weren't for the "unlimited" data cap package.

      I've had a phone since November 2006, and my typical bill has been about 8,000 - 10,000 yen ($80 - $100 or so) per month. I don't know how that compares.

      But things are beginning to change over here in Japan now, little by little. For example, as of earlier this year, all four of the major carriers (docomo, au, SoftBank, Willcom), as well as the new e-mobile carrier, offer free calls and mail to members of the family who are also on the same carrier, 24 hours a day. Willcom and e-mobile actually offer free calls within their entire network now, from what I have heard.

    2. Re:Japan text messaging by harmony7 · · Score: 1

      > 20 yen + tax per 30-minute interval

      Correction: 30-SECOND interval, that is. Sorry.

  27. Silly logic - SMS for data? by caluml · · Score: 1

    "The maximum size for a text message is 160 characters, which takes 140 bytes because there are only 7 bits per character in the text messaging system, and we assume the average price for a text message is 5p. There are 1,048,576 bytes in a megabyte, so that's 1 million/140 = 7490 text messages to transmit one megabyte. At 5p each, that's £374.49 per MB... That is, if you try to use SMSes to send data. Which you wouldn't. You'd set up a GPRS/3G session, and do it that way. And at (say) £3/MB, it suddenly seems a little more normal.
    Bit of a troll, here, methinks.
    That isn't to say that they're still many many many times more expensive than the cost of an SMS to the operator. But that's market forces for you. People pay that much, therefore it's "worth" that much.
  28. Unlimited... by Mr+EdgEy · · Score: 0

    As long as we like your data usage ?

    1. Re:Unlimited... by superphreak · · Score: 1

      My Phone holds 500 texts. I clear it out 2-3x a week. They haven't complained yet.
      And not all of that texting is to people. I use Google Mobile to get info, and I get scores from 4info.com.

      --
      Evolution is a state-sponsored, state-protected religion.
    2. Re:Unlimited... by ShannaraFan · · Score: 1

      I'm on Cingular/AT&T's unlimited plan as well:

      - I have monitoring at work that will send me SMS messages (email to procmail script to "mail2sms" to Google's SMS page). I get probably 100 alerts a week for everything from database blocking, long-running queries to low disk space, server down, etc..

      - I use Google Calendar to send SMS reminders for events/appointments

      - I have two teenage kids whom I communicate with via SMS more than face-to-face

      I have no idea how many messages this (combined with wife/kids usage) amounts to, but I've not gotten any complaints about excessive usage.

  29. Yeah, but Hubble is only one station by tjstork · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Is this really a valid comparison? I mean, yes, Hubble is up in space and talks to earth, and that's complicated. But, Hubble is only one target, talking to relatively small handful of earth based stations. On the other hand, a cell phone network consists of traffic management for millions of subscribers, and with thousands of ground based stations that must be maintained.

    --
    This is my sig.
    1. Re:Yeah, but Hubble is only one station by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Is this really a valid comparison? I mean, yes, Hubble is up in space and talks to earth, and that's complicated. But, Hubble is only one target, talking to relatively small handful of earth based stations. On the other hand, a cell phone network consists of traffic management for millions of subscribers, and with thousands of ground based stations that must be maintained. Using the internet, I don't pay for each hop along the way to post this message. Your point doesn't make sense. SMS is overrated.
    2. Re:Yeah, but Hubble is only one station by Hyppy · · Score: 1

      Because if you compare it to standard internet data transfer, it just gets silly. Why make up 64 new mathematical operators to express Graham's number, when we could have easily just used the SMS profit margins?

    3. Re:Yeah, but Hubble is only one station by prockcore · · Score: 1

      not only that, but how much does it cost *ME* to talk to hubble? What it's impossible? Then the entire comparison is retarded.

  30. I've disabled text messaging by vijayiyer · · Score: 1

    I've disabled text messaging because of the terrible value it presents. I have way more voice minutes than I know what to do with for $60/mo. Why would I pay $0.20 for a tiny little text message? I can just make a phone call.

    1. Re:I've disabled text messaging by RoaldFalcon · · Score: 0

      We disabled text messaging the first time we had pay money to receive a spam message. That was simply unacceptable. Everything about SMS pricing is stupid.

    2. Re:I've disabled text messaging by sahonen · · Score: 1

      When I disabled texting I completely stopped hearing from certain friends. Same thing with MySpaceBook, because I don't spend all my spare time friending and commenting people I drop off their radar. Oh noes, how did we ever have friends before computers?

      --
      Make me a friend and I'll mod you up
    3. Re:I've disabled text messaging by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why would you, then, pay for cell minutes you don't use?

  31. So is this the time to bring up ... by SengirV · · Score: 2, Funny

    Printer ink versus a gallon of gas?

    --

    Prof. Farnsworth - "Oh a lesson in not changing history from Mr I'm-My-Own-Grandpa!"

    1. Re:So is this the time to bring up ... by raynet · · Score: 4, Funny

      I think soon it might be cheaper to drive with non-branded printer ink.

      --
      - Raynet --> .
    2. Re:So is this the time to bring up ... by Luyseyal · · Score: 0, Redundant

      Hahaha! That's awesome. Great comment.
      -l

      --
      Help cure AIDS, cancer, and more. Donate your unused computer time to worldcommunitygrid.org. Join Team Slashdot!
  32. Hubble just can't compete by MadFarmAnimalz · · Score: 1

    It's just those boffins at Hubble grumbling. Think about it, do you really think you'll get smileys and flirty leetspeak messages via Hubble? No. And that is why Hubble is so effing cheap.

    --
    Blearf. Blearf, I say.
  33. I don't pay anything for texts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Although it's not quite the same thing. Here in Ireland at least, O2 gives you 250 free texts per month to use via their website - perfect for a geek like me stuck in a chair all day at work and at home. Because of this and my total lack of desire to call people, in six years I've spent less than 200 euros in total including the cost of the phone itself.
     
    Are comparable services available in the USA?

  34. Sensible pricing? by warlorddagaz · · Score: 1

    Would you have actually complained about 5p for a text message before this was shown? Pricing a text message at 5p makes sense, as it's small enough to seem negligible,and presumably enough that [your operator] can make a profit. Furthermore, Hubble is presumably downloading lots and lots of megabytes of data, whereas a text is 140 bytes a go. As we've seen with most forms of data storage/transmission, price and size do not scale linearly - just as a 200GB hard disk does not cost twice as much as a 100GB one, a 1.4 kilobyte email does not cost 10 times as much as 10 140 byte texts. It would be interesting to see how a mobile operator breaks down text pricing, and see how much goes on carrying the data

  35. So what's your point? by dtjohnson · · Score: 1

    Isn't text messaging at least 6x more valuable than Hubble data?

  36. Liquid Nitrogen cheaper than beer by DFJA · · Score: 1

    And liquid Nitrogen is cheaper to buy than beer. I know what I'll be having with my next meal now...

    --
    43 - For those who require slightly more than the answer to life, the universe and everything.
    1. Re:Liquid Nitrogen cheaper than beer by the+brown+guy · · Score: 3, Insightful

      And liquid Nitrogen is cheaper to buy than beer. You're obviously drinking way too expensive beer, try a 40 of old english malt liquor, sure it tastes nasty, but it's better than liquid nitrogen. (Or solid/gaseous nitrogen for that matter.)
      --
      Orbis terrarum est non altus satis
    2. Re:Liquid Nitrogen cheaper than beer by jimicus · · Score: 1

      And liquid Nitrogen is cheaper to buy than beer. You're obviously drinking way too expensive beer, try a 40 of old english malt liquor, sure it tastes nasty, I bet it does. There's no such thing, because there aren't AFAIK any English distilleries selling any malt liquor right now, so Heaven only knows what you're buying. Petrol?

      Scottish distilleries, OTOH.....
    3. Re:Liquid Nitrogen cheaper than beer by CompCons · · Score: 1

      Old English is a brand....

    4. Re:Liquid Nitrogen cheaper than beer by jandrese · · Score: 1

      You might be surprised to learn that Old English is a brand name of a supposedly nasty Malt Liquor. It has also won a bunch of awards, which seems to be a good sign that there are far too many awards available for alcoholic beverages.

      --

      I read the internet for the articles.
    5. Re:Liquid Nitrogen cheaper than beer by the+brown+guy · · Score: 1

      Old English malt liquor got 0.72/5 on rate beer
      Read the comments, it tastes horrible, but it has a relatively high alcohol content, 8% I believe, and teenagers buy it in 40 oz bottles, which fucks you up. At $8 at the local liquor store, it's about the price of a cheap six pack, and if you smoke a joint first, it goes down fine.

      --
      Orbis terrarum est non altus satis
  37. And the point is? by wcrowe · · Score: 1

    I'm not sure what the point here is. It's sort of like those posters that used hang in Sherwin Williams stores informing us that paint is actually cheap when compared to the cost of an equal amount of nail polish.

    --
    Proverbs 21:19
  38. SMS in India is way cheaper then! by ScorpFromHell · · Score: 1

    It costs at max Re.1/- which is ~1.25p. Some networks its half the cost. However I am not counting the cost of the SMS that one sends to the plethora of reality shows. There the costs might go 4x to 6x. And if it is for downloading ringtones, it could go upto 15x!

    --
    -- Prem
    Aiming to tweet on a rice ... help me find the write pen!
  39. My experience. by RavenChild · · Score: 0

    I text almost consistently throughout the day sending a total of about 10000 SMS/MMS a month. The plan I have through AT&T allows for unlimited text for our entire family of 6 lines. So that means we pay $5.00/person. That makes my cost per text about $0.0005 a message per person. I get all of my email sent to my phone as a MMS as well and some of those can be around 100KB as well.

    So in my case, I believe it's rather handy and cost effective means of data transfer since data packages are so damn expensive.

    1. Re:My experience. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      10,000 text messages per month is something more than 300 messages per day. Presuming maybe 10 seconds per such message, you're spending 3000 seconds - 50 minutes - per day texting? With something like eight hours spent sleeping, that means you're spending more than 5% of your waking hours thumbing your phone? Has anyone suggested that you consider getting a life? Has anyone threatened to beat the crap out of you because of your intolerably rude behavior? Or do you actually know anyone?

    2. Re:My experience. by magicchex · · Score: 1

      I used to send 3500+ messages a month. I don't understand how texting is "intolerably rude behavior" compared to people talking on their cell phones in all manner of public places?

      --
      How many fulltime jobs can one man have?
  40. Gateways make it expensive, not carriers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    P2P (person to person) messages sent in-network (att customer to att customer, etc) are very inexpensive for the network operator. The SMS system is a facility built in to the Mobile Application Part (MAP) of the Switching System 7 (SS7) used by most US, Euro and Asian nations. Operators just get SMS basically for free as part of any standard implementation of the SS7 protocol.

    However, as soon as the user sends a message to a mobile subscriber out of their network, they have to go through a gateway. The gateway operators are the ones making all the money. Since each gateway only has relationships with a limited number of carriers, the gateways have to have relationships with each other (and pay accordingly). There are very few inter. op. gateways in the world, so they've been able to charge an arm and a leg and the operators are over a barrel.

    There are some competitors in this space, and the price is going down as carriers try to lower costs. As the gateways become more numerous, they will make less money. Don't worry, the carriers won't pass that cost savings on to the customer. They think it's their turn to get rich.

  41. here in canada...... by the+brown+guy · · Score: 0

    I pay $3 a month here in Canada for 100 text messages a month, additional text messages are $0.15. I have a 140 character limit, which is more than enough for the typical "cant talk sup" message. Furthermore, at least here you can send text messages from the internet to cellphones for free, but if the recipient as a prepaid phone they get charged $0.15 per message received.
    I'm not sure how the message leaves the tubes and reaches the cellphone, but I think it has something to do with wifi.

    --
    Orbis terrarum est non altus satis
  42. That's Quite a Stretch... by FurtiveGlancer · · Score: 1

    to make the Hubble look relatively inexpensive. Space research is expensive and no "apples to asteroids (~TM)" comparisons will change that. Compare the annual cost of supporting Hubble to the annual expenditures on dog food in the US and it will look like a tremendous bargain.

    Space exploration will never garner adequate support because it's cheaper than the sum of all SMS plans. It will gain support by demonstrating its value: both scientific and in public relations. IMHO, Hubble.org has done more to advance the cause of space than any asinine comparison, such as this.

    --
    Invenio via vel creo
  43. Monster or Monster? by tepples · · Score: 1

    I expect that the profit margins on a SMS message make Monster look positively razor thin with it's own margins. Monster the job search company, or Monster the cabling company?
    1. Re:Monster or Monster? by EdIII · · Score: 1

      The cabling company :)

  44. As much as I hate rapacious capitalists by slashdot_commentator · · Score: 1

    You should go over your itemized phone bill sometime. It turns out the cell phone company is compelled to collect USD $6-7 from each customer in the form of federal, state, and local taxes. That ends up being 20% of my phone bill. The gov't is taxing our right to "free" speech (beyond vocal distance). Who's going to protect the consumers from the gov't?

    --
    There is no America. There is no democracy. There is only IBM and AT&T and DuPont, Dow, General Electric, and Exxon
    1. Re:As much as I hate rapacious capitalists by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your a moron, it has nothing to do with "free" speech. The tax is to cover the cost to the FCC and other agencies to regulate. I know we all hate to pay taxes, but if they don't get paid the services don't get done.

  45. So what's the point, exactly? by 5KVGhost · · Score: 1

    I'm not sure I understand the author's point. In the real world, things are worth pretty much whatever people are willing to pay for them. The cost of the infrastructure only determines the lowest profitable price. Yep, SMS can be expensive. Don't like that? Ok, find another provider who offers it cheaper, use another alternative technology instead, or get by without it.

    SMS has value to people because it's useful to them, so the mobile companies charge what the market will bear. People get a service at a price that they find acceptable (they must, because they're buying lots of it) and the phone company makes a profit for their shareholders. Everyone wins.

  46. In other news... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Ringtones cost more than music.

    Capitalism at it's best. Allowing idiots to subsidize the rest of us since 1776.

    I think that they should charge $5 per text message. Then maybe kids would have to choose between texting and drugs.

  47. And thats why we don't by JohnnyGTO · · Score: 1

    let the cell companies run NASA.

    --
    Si vis pacem, para bellum! For evil to succeed good men need only do nothing!
  48. 7 bits per character? by lokedhs · · Score: 1

    Was the authour just guessing? Last I looked, SMS'es were UTF-8. That means anything from 1 to 4 bytes per character. (that's bytes, 8-bit entities)

    1. Re:7 bits per character? by tao · · Score: 1

      Nope. There are three different SMS formats; 7-bit (160 characters), 8-bit (140 characters), and utf-16 (up to 70 characters).

  49. That is why it is called retail by rssrss · · Score: 1

    Comparing the retail price of a text message with the cost of downloading data from the the Hubble, is a bit like comparing the cost of running a municipal water system with the retail price of a bottle of imported mineral water.

    It can be done, but it is kind of pointless.

    A better comparison might be between a ground based content generator and the Hubble or between a text message and a post card.

    --
    In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.
  50. cost of SMS? it's what people will pay by petes_PoV · · Score: 3, Insightful
    > while the price of SMS messages have risen so egregiously?

    As far as I know the cost of SMS hasn't risen. It jus hasn't fallen.

    When SMS started (early 90's - anyone?) the cost was, IIRC, 10p each. Now it's 5p. The starting price was a guess and seems to have more-or-less stuck. Obviously if people weren't willing to use the service the price would've been reduced. Since people are willing to pay 5p per message, there's no reason (how do you spell CARTEL, by the way?) for any of the carriers to reduce it.

    What they have done instead is to bundle "free" texts in with your monthly contracts - which is nice for the pay-monthly grown-ups, who don't use them, but no use at all for the PAYG kiddies who are the main text users.

    Now that's marketing!

    --
    politicians are like babies' nappies: they should both be changed regularly and for the same reasons
    1. Re:cost of SMS? it's what people will pay by tcr · · Score: 1

      IIRC, SMS was free when I first signed up ('95)
       
      They didn't forsee making any money out of it at the time.

      --


      Information wants to be beer.
    2. Re:cost of SMS? it's what people will pay by Fumus · · Score: 1

      If the cost of one SMS message was 10p ten years earlier, you're lucky.
      Here in Poland when mobile phones started entering everyday life, and all people could afford it (ten or maybe a few more years back) one SMS message cost over 1 PLN.
      Now they are for 0.01 PLN or free most of the time.

    3. Re:cost of SMS? it's what people will pay by lysse · · Score: 1

      Still 10p on most networks, as far as I know (12p on O2 contract and Vodafone); the discounts seem to only apply to texting people on the same network (3p/text on Virgin).

      Incidentally, I'm a PAYG user, but I'm in my early 30s - I simply don't ring anyone often enough, or travel enough, to make a monthly contract economical (especially not compared with O2's Favourite Place tariff - 500 minutes a month from a given postcode so long as you top up £10, and you still get to use the tenner to pay for calls... currently my phone has £36 credit. :/ )

    4. Re:cost of SMS? it's what people will pay by bhtooefr · · Score: 1

      Here in the US, it HAS become more expensive.

      I distinctly recall it being $0.10 per message on most carriers (if you don't get a texting plan)... now, some carriers charge as much as $0.25 to send. Mine charges $0.15 for send or receive.

    5. Re:cost of SMS? it's what people will pay by magicchex · · Score: 1

      SMS has certainly gone down in price in the US. Since I've had cell phones it's gone from $0.25/message or something like $20 for a few hundred a month to now I get unlimited across 4 phones for $10/month.

      --
      How many fulltime jobs can one man have?
    6. Re:cost of SMS? it's what people will pay by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's certainly gone up for disinterested Verizon users in the US.

      when it first came along, it was a penny to receive messages. 10c to send. So you didn't care too much about people hitting you. Then it became 10c/10c, so you did, esp when some sms storms started. Then it was 15c/15c. Now it's 20c. All for non guaranteed excess bandidth. It's quite a racket.

      They do offer very primitive blocking abilities - just 20 addresses can be blocked. I need a whitelist solution myself. I get 2-5 messsages a month, so any plan is pointless for me, and it seems crazy cheap to bitch at my friends to call me by voice instead, which is effectively free.

    7. Re:cost of SMS? it's what people will pay by mister.f · · Score: 1

      As far as I can tell, they've actually got more expensive on some networks. I'm with 02, and remember when texts we 10p, now they're 12p.

  51. When you switch to an unlimited service. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There are outfits like Pocket or Cricket that offer unlimited service, with no contracts. The downside? If you are a regular traveler the roaming will cost. But for 99% of us who are townies this is great. There are other similar companies.

    Want to stay with a major carrier? Then try Sprint's SERO plan. Has text, data and roaming are unlimited. Starts at $30 a month.

  52. Yeah... but what you donna do by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Here in Ireland where we have, as i understand, the highest mobile phone texting outside of japan, we have found ways around it.

    You download a java applet for your phone that sends your texts messages using the online "freetext" system of your operator using a gprs connection.

    So your text works out at about 2-3c even with the massive overhead of setting up http connections and everything.

  53. Cost is x2 + more as you pay for incoming as well. by Joe+The+Dragon · · Score: 1

    Cost is x2+ more as you pay for incoming as well and us rates at $0.15 - $0.20 per message or more each way.

  54. One big reason why I don't text. by Jason+Levine · · Score: 1

    I got into twitter recently (once the jQuery team began twittering) and my co-worker (who had been into twitter before) told me that I should have it send the messages to my cell phone. Unfortunately, the plan I'm on (with Verizon Wireless) charges $0.20 per text message sent or received. So, using Dr Banniste's calculations, I would need to pay 20 cents for each of 7,490 text messages. Transmitting 1MB of data would cost me $1,498, or 9 times the cost of transmitting 1MB of Hubble data. I could pay Verizon $5 per month per phone to get unlimited texting, but that would mean increasing my bill by $10 per month (for 2 phones), or $120 per year. I just don't see the need to pay Verizon so much more money just to get and send text messages.

    --
    My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
    1. Re:One big reason why I don't text. by pimpimpim · · Score: 1

      From out of europe, a cheap call-by-call to a mobile phone in the US is about 1 eurocent per minute, whereas a call-by-call to a european mobile phone costs about 13 cents at least. That made me think that the US has a pretty neat cheap mobile phone system, but it appears that for the cheap calls to a mobile phone, the money is earned on texting and other weird systems. I guess being screwed over by your cellphone provider is international.

      --
      molmod.com - computing tips from a molecular modeling
    2. Re:One big reason why I don't text. by edraven · · Score: 1

      I could be wrong but it's my understanding that the cost of providing service for incoming calls to cellular phones in Europe is borne by the caller. That is to say, if you call a cell phone from a land line, you pay more for that call than if you were calling another land line. In the US, the cost lands on the owner of the cell phone. Regardless of whether the call is incoming or outgoing, it's the person with the cell phone who pays. So it makes sense that calling a US cell phone might be cheaper than calling a European cell phone, since you're not bearing the cost of the airtime.
      Someone please correct me if I got this wrong.

  55. It's no wonder you failed College English! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I see several grammatical errors and a fragmentary sentence with no verb, and that's only on the first sentence of your report. I'm afraid, I'll have to mark this paper with a D, since I really don't like to give Fs.

    Fortunately, for me, I don't have to worry about the high cost of text messaging, since I don't happen to have a teenage daughter. With any luck, by the time my youngest is old enough to have a phone, SMS will be cheaper, or at least controllable from a parent configuration option in the phone plans. A sane plan would be something like: you can send 500 text messages or talk as long as you like, once you exceed your message limit your phone deactivates SMS. Of course there is always the really mean parent option: use up your SMS and the whole phone shuts down, except for parent GPS tracking. We like to call this plan the Windows Stepmother Plan (WSP). Did I say Windows? I meant Wicked.

    1. Re:It's no wonder you failed College English! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The other option is just get an unlimited plan. Helio All-In unlimited plan is $99/month, includes unlimited minutes, unlimited text/picture/video/IM messaging, unlimited data (in the same manner as unlimited bandwidth from Comcast, ie we'll tell you when you reach it, but never before >_>). Pretty nifty in my opinion.

      </plug>

    2. Re:It's no wonder you failed College English! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Whoa whoa whoa, how the hell did I post this in the completely wrong thread? Oh well...

  56. According to Indian SMS rates by fork_daemon · · Score: 1

    Now calculate this with the Cost of text in India.

    Cost of one Regular SMS=50p(INR 0.50)

    So 7490 text messages cost 7490 x INR 0.50 = INR 3745.00

    At the present rate as on XE.com, that will be 89.1030 USD or 45.4727 GBP. That is Eight Times Cheaper.

    Can anyone tell me why First World Countries charge so much for this when Third World Countries can actually afford it for so less?

  57. SMS vs data bandwidth flamebait by ekimminau · · Score: 1

    Forgive me for the obvious, but why would you compare SMS to normal data bandwidth? I would attach the file from the SD memory card on my smart phone to a standard email message and use a small portion of my flat rate unlimited bandwidth rather than sending an image or a chunk of data.

    What is the cost of sending 1GB of data from the Hubble vs. sending 1GB of data via a flat rate, unlimited transfer hand held data connection? That would be a far more intelligent comparison.

    BTW, for the same flat rate I also get unlimited text messages, too, so it is still a moot point. My flat rate per month is less than the numbers estimated for the single example given.

    This just screams "flame bait" to me.

    --
    Armaments, 2-9-21 And Saint Attila raised the hand grenade up on high, saying, 'O Lord, bless this Thy hand grenade' N
  58. why? because you're stupid enough to pay it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    modern consumers are like cattle obediently marching to slaughter... the concept of voting with your dollar is simple enough for a child to understand and yet the american public allows.. nay they *demand* fat corporations to shit all over them.

        It's how organizations like the RIAA and MPAA run amok in a country where if 10% of the 'infringers' got off their ass long enough to organize and/or vote you could enact a law that would mandate that their lawyers walk around town with a bucket of weasel crap on their head while brittney spears is piped directly to their cerebral cortex.

  59. Duh! SMS is the biggest rip off in iT history! by Wonderkid · · Score: 1

    Email is standardised, more reliable, easier to manage and a whole lot more versatile. Anyone who uses SMS to communicate regularly is nuts. I no longer use it, nor a Blackberry which is also an expensive way to communicate - it's only value prop being it's push. The best way is to configure your email client on each device you own and use that. If it's urgent, pickup the phone and take advantage of all those free mimutes! Talk is cheap, really!

    --

    O'WONDERWe're working on it.

    1. Re:Duh! SMS is the biggest rip off in iT history! by jroysdon · · Score: 1

      A text message is great when you're in a meeting, or trying to get someone in a meeting.

    2. Re:Duh! SMS is the biggest rip off in iT history! by SenseiLeNoir · · Score: 1

      yes, most Sonyericsson phones support IMAP push VERY well. Try it, no need for a blackberry if all you want is messaging.

      --
      Have a nice day!
  60. Over charged by Bengie · · Score: 1

    I have 4 people on my family package, giving me 56.6 hours of talk time per day. It would take 2.361~ people talking 24/hours a day to use up all of my minutes, yet it costs me .20c to send a txt msg. Atleast they're free incoming. We also get free in-family calls. Ma'b I should get a 3-way conference going on my in-family and let the phones sit on all month and see if they let me choose to stop doing that for free txt...??

  61. Re:Math is HARD, idiocy comes natural by camg188 · · Score: 3, Informative

    Much more data is sent with an SMS that just the text of the message. How do you think you get the caller id of who sent the message? To see how much data is actually sent check out the format of a "call detail record". Most data is not compressed, but rather sent as a comma separated list. You would be amazed at how much data is actually tranfered for any type of wireless communication. First the message from the sending device is sent to the nearest cell tower, which contacts a database to see which carrier you subscribe to. (Your phone does this periodically also, so your carrier knows which cell tower service area you are in so they know where to send your calls). The number you are calling is looked up in a database so they know which cell tower to broadcast your message from. Plus your IMEI,ESN, calling number, called number,originating and terminating cell tower information, originating and terminating switch and trunk data are transmitted with each message. Copies of each record are reformatted and sent to the carrier for retention, copies are sent to the billing company and the company that maintains the carrier's customer service web site, etc.
    My point is that much more data gets transferred for each sms than the 160 characters of the text. Considering all the data transfers required for the whole process, the text of the message is actually a very low percentage total data processed.

  62. An excuse by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It does NOT seem fair enough. What if you don't want the call (and they block caller id), you get charged anyway and it's your problem. It doesn't even carry over to land lines, where you receive a long distance call for free and don't have to pay long distance even though you're talking to someone who called you over a long distance and are using those carriers and lines. It's just an excuse. An excuse to charge you more, and you're lapping it up like candy.

  63. SMS is NOT for large transfers by jgt10 · · Score: 1
    SMS - Short message Service

    Any comparison of cost of large file transfers via SMS are apple and orange, i.e. not valid comparisons. It is like measuring the capacity of an 8-inch floppy to a 1GB flash drive.

    Get over it.

    --
    JOAT(MON) Computer Psychiatrist
  64. Re:Math is HARD, idiocy comes natural by mr_mischief · · Score: 1

    The (monetary) efficiency of the final payload is exactly what interests the author. That so much more data is used to send a paltry 160 characters is part of thew reason SMS fairs so poorly from a cost standpoint.

    Whether it's avoidable considering Hubble always sends the data to the same few places vs. the needed routing for millions of cell phones to send to millions of other cell phones is a fair question, though.

    One way the cost per byte of final payload can be lowered is to allow more bytes of payload per message so the percentage of transmitted data that is overhead shrinks. However, in the case of SMS, we get into the cost factor for the hardware, battery, radio, and software in the handsets to try to change that ratio.

  65. And the content is usually: by roc97007 · · Score: 1

    "Hi."

    "Hi."

    "What u doin?"

    "Nothin U?"

    "Nothin bored"

    "Me too"

    --
    Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
  66. What are you guys on about? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I pay $10 dollars a month for unlimited free text and mms messages...What's this 20c shit?

  67. OT: Spelling Nazi on your tagline by honestmonkey · · Score: 1, Interesting

    It's atheism. It's an 'ism'.
    A - not
    theism - belief in the existence of a god or gods; specifically : belief in the existence of one God viewed as the creative source of the human race and the world who transcends yet is immanent in the world (copied from Merriam Websters).

    Not collecting stamps would be aphilately. Well, maybe not.

    --
    Everything you know is wrong, Just forget the words and sing along.
  68. What is the point? by Cracked+Pottery · · Score: 1

    Are we talking about marginal cost or average cost? Is it about who pays or who benefits? You might as well compare the cost of Hubble data to pancakes unless you are considering life cycle costs and benefits. The average value of a text message is zero in most cases, and cell phone providers should be grateful that they can con customers into paying more to save their bandwidth.

  69. It's easy to see them as villanous, but.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    While it's not a true "free market" in telecomm in the US, it is a quadopoly. (Verizon, Sprint, AT&T and Tmo). And unlike Comcast vs Satellite where differences in the technology make significant difference to the subscribers, with phones the differences are small and in many cases more obscure than subscribers would care to understand (Edge vs. WCDMA, etc.). So if one network could just offer its subs "unlimited text free with every plan" they would have done so already, and "owned" the cheapskate segment (a large portion of the subscribers) for quite a while until their competitors did the same.

    And while there may still be some bandwidth available on the SS7 links at my favorite wireless carrier, all the call processing information traverses these links too, and there are significant real-time constraints on this data. If you congest those links, calls fail, people retry, calls attempts per hour skyrocket, people try to get through with SMS... it just snowballs.

    The other factor to consider is when people are being billed "per item" they want an itemized list. So if you can fit 140 rows on a page and print double sided, then every 280 messages costs you a page of billing, it costs you that much database space in your computers which have to be able to pull up more than 160 characters worth of data on each meangingless little text message for 90 days into the past in case you dispute that particular text message.

    When you combine the billing costs and the needed over-purchase (for peak hour loads) of the SS7 links, sms's have some significant costs attached. One of the reasons they can go $20 a month for unlimited texting (when this would only cover 400 messages at 5 cents each) is due to decreased cost of "detail billing" that goes away with the unlimited plans.

    So, in summary, it's complicated, but if they could lower their prices they would, not out of kindness, but because of the murderous advantage it would give them in the marketplace.

    1. Re:It's easy to see them as villanous, but.... by Luyseyal · · Score: 1

      I don't buy it. The only thing I see is you're making excuses for them. Itemized billing? Ha. Database space? Ha. Even in bulk, 90 days of text messages is not that much data for a major corporation. Call interference -- for a text message? Ha!

      These people are printing money.

      -l

      --
      Help cure AIDS, cancer, and more. Donate your unused computer time to worldcommunitygrid.org. Join Team Slashdot!
    2. Re:It's easy to see them as villanous, but.... by random0xff · · Score: 1

      So, in summary, it's complicated, but if they could lower their prices they would, not out of kindness, but because of the murderous advantage it would give them in the marketplace. You keep believing that. In the mean time these corporations just agree to not go below 5 cents a message, so everyone can get rich. If you think that it costs you that much database space in your computers then I don't know what you are doing on Slashdot.
  70. UK operator by eneville · · Score: 0

    There are some contracts out there that on the surface appear to be reasonable deals. The contract that I have costs 15.50 (GBP)/month. This covers me for 200 text messages and 200 minutes of air time.

    So,

    echo '1550/200' | bc -l
    7.75

    per text. Not so great is it.

    However, I also pay 7.50 (GBP) for unlimited data on EGPRS/HSDPA. Sadly though my mobile cannot do HSDPA, so it's still rather limited and the cost of improving the modem would be too much for me.

  71. Umm, education? by JSBiff · · Score: 1

    Sometimes, people that make up 'The Market' have absolutely no clue what the real value of a thing is. When someone educates them, then maybe they will demand that the product or service be re-priced to a more reasonable value.

          Some people, in this discussion, have pointed out that comparing downloading data from the Hubble Space Telescope vs. SMS is an apples to oranges comparison. That's true, which is why it's even *more* outrageous what the phone companies charge. Let me explain: the Hubble Space Telescope is a very specialty communication. You do not have good infrastructure 'economies of scale'. I absolutely guarantee that the *real* infrastructure cost for Hubble is far more than it is for text messaging - particularly when you consider that the digital phone networks had to be built to support telephone conversations, and any additional services like SMS are, essentially, free to the phone companies. There is, basically, no additional cost incurred on them to support SMS.

          One would expect, in that situation, in a functioning market, that the cost to consumers for SMS would be very close to 0, as the real cost on top of what they are already paying for their phone service (which nominally goes to maintaining the phone networks and providing the phone company with a profit) is very close to 0.

          So the point of the article is to contrast the very *real* cost of the Hubble Space Telescope, vs. the artificial cost of SMS, and to thereby educate consumers that they are getting ripped off.

          Of course, as most people here point out, anyone with a rudimentary understanding of digital technology (which, honestly, probably isn't anywhere close to a majority of the population) should already have figured out a long time ago that this is a ripoff, and just avoid using those services.

          Personally, I almost never use Text messaging on my phone; for one thing, it's a total pain in the arse to type messages in on a numpad (I don't have a 'full' keypad like a Blackberry or similar device), and the main reason is, I refuse to pay $5-$10/mo for 'unlimited texting', or 15c per message. Even the 'flat rates' are, honestly, pretty much a ripoff.

          I have to chuckle every time I see the ads, recently, for the new ONE HUNDRED DOLLARS PER MONTH unlimited plans the mobile companies are rolling out. That's just crazy expensive.

  72. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  73. The Marginal Cost of SMS is 0 by laxian · · Score: 1

    There's all this talk of how much SMS messages cost per byte and how that relates to the bandwidth available on the network and so on yet no one has mentioned one of the best comments from the last time this topic was brought up here on Slashdot: The Marginal Cost of SMS is 0

    Read that comment! Basically it says that it costs the telco nothing in terms of bandwidth (or anything else, really) to send your messages back and forth.

    That comment was referenced in this blog post. I was so outraged after reading it that I called up AT&T and told them to make it so that I can't send or receive text messages anymore. As a side-effect, I can no longer tell when I have voice messages, but it's totally worth it.

    --

    our written thoughts are gifts to our future selves

    1. Re:The Marginal Cost of SMS is 0 by DrMorris · · Score: 1

      The "non-cost" may be true for traffic within the operators network but AT&T (and any other mobile network operator) surely needs to pay interworking fees to other operators when sending short messages to them. In return they receive payments for incoming messages from some networks. "Some", because there are exceptions... the SMS world is complicated, but believe me there are surely costs involved for every operator (once messages cross network boundaries).

  74. Collusion. by mu11ing1t0ver · · Score: 1

    I can't believe nobody recognizes this for what it is. Simple collusion is what's preventing the market from ironing out this massive discrepancy in profitability. In a functioning market, competitors would arise and prices would go down. The fact that they're not means they're all cooperating with each other to keep prices high. Simple, and criminal, but that's all it is.

  75. What about competition? by Dirtside · · Score: 1

    I understand that SMS is expensive in the U.S. because it's what people are willing to pay. Fine. What I don't understand is why the cell carriers aren't competing on that feature. For the past decade, the number of features, number of minutes, etc. have all been steadily climbing, while calling plan prices have remained more or less steady. And yet, for some reason, there isn't a cell carrier in the country who charges less than 15 cents for an SMS. Why aren't they competing on this feature? Why isn't there a single carrier who said, "You know, we could charge 5 cents a message, and still make an enormous profit on SMS messages, and grab a bunch of our competitors' business!"? What am I missing here? Are they call colluding on SMS, but not on other features?

    --
    "Destroy science and religion. Science would re-emerge exactly the same; but not religion." - Penn Jillette, paraphrased
    1. Re:What about competition? by roju · · Score: 1

      My guess is that (in the eyes of the carriers) people are unwilling to change providers just for cheaper text messages, so lowering text rates won't get them more subscribers, just less revenue from those that they have.

    2. Re:What about competition? by Dirtside · · Score: 1

      Hm, well, I don't really think that the idea is that just lowering SMS prices would grab a bunch of customers; it'd be part of their overall pricing strategy. Maybe not a lot of people would switch just from that change, but combine that with other offers, better plan pricing, better phones, etc. and it'd help. I just don't understand why they aren't competing on SMS price at all. It's not like giving someone 3000 minutes for $50 instead of 2500 minutes is going to convince that many more people, but the carriers are competing on that front... so why not SMS?

      --
      "Destroy science and religion. Science would re-emerge exactly the same; but not religion." - Penn Jillette, paraphrased
    3. Re:What about competition? by azgard · · Score: 1

      Because, you don't understand how _true_ market works. It can be actually proven that for any finite number of companies, the price in equilibrium is the same as monopolistic price. So called "free market" is only a case where there is an infinite number of companies, which is of course never true in the real world. This can also be confirmed by empirical data and experimental results.

      If you want references, look up Steve Keen (author of Debunking Economics) and his theory of firm.

  76. it's absurd by zer0cool1ng · · Score: 1

    In fact here in Portugal most young people use SMS a lot because most of them have free SMS and of course no one pays for receiving SMS. And there's a lot of advantages in places where you can't talk for example.. but to pay just for receiving is absurd lol. I can't understand how can they do such thing in the US where things are usually much cheaper than in Europe...

  77. Re:Math is HARD, idiocy comes natural by Bryansix · · Score: 2, Interesting

    All that tells me is that it costs more to BILL for the SMS text message then to SEND it. Maybe they should just stop charging for it if you pay monthly for a cell phone.

  78. Convenience too by EmbeddedJanitor · · Score: 1
    Nobody puts a gun to your head and forces you to text. Text is a useful feature and people pay for it and use it.

    Here in NZ, texting is used a lot and the phone companies do really good deals that work out at 1c per text or so.

    The article is a crock too. If you buy text messages in bulk they cost almost nothing.

    --
    Engineering is the art of compromise.
  79. Overhead by iamlucky13 · · Score: 5, Informative

    In-flight calls or data are a poor example. You're talking about putting in equipment that costs more than typical network equipment because of requirements like low EMI, light weight, minimal maintenance, ground stations to handle the data, programming to manage handoffs at 500+ mph, and the process of getting FAA approval when you integrate it with a jillion other systems on a commercial airliner. It genuinely is expensive. Even at $10/hour that Boeing was charging for their Connexion internet service, they lost huge amounts of money on it (I think partially because they over-engineered the system, but I'm not very familiar with the details).

    The cost of using it are very low, but the costs to initially add the feature are very high. Then you add in the fact that usage rates are typically low (only a handful of passengers buy it, only "full-service" airlines install the equipment), it can be hard to make it pay for itself.

    Of course, they do add a high margin on top of their projected costs because they can without affecting the demand much, but the fixed costs still dominate (at the moment...data services will be much better integrated in the coming generation of airliners, and we may be moving towards allowing cell phones in flight, too).

    SMS is the opposite. They aren't seeing low usage on new, expensive infrastructure. They're seeing high usage on existing, paid-for infrastructure.

    The SMS scheme really isn't a very good one. SMS messages get multiplexed into the control channels on the mobile phone network, and it's really a 2nd generation technology. The size of the control channels is fundamentally limited, but each slot is big enough for a text message. So the providers squeeze the SMS into it because it fits and it doesn't require re-engineering their protocols to fit it in the voice channels. This is also why SMS is limited to so few characters: That's what fits in a time-division on the control channel.

    Unfortunately, it proved to be a popular service. The limited extra space fills up quickly. In fact, it's theoretically possible to launch a relatively wide-area DDoS attack by sending only a couple hundred messages per second from zombie clients. To get the best return on their existing capacity, providers raise the price to discourage excessive use.

    The puzzling thing in my opinion is that it's taking so long for this service to shift from being side-banded in the 2G scheme to being normal data packets on 3G networks. As that happens, the capacity for text explodes (text is way more compact than voice, pictures, video and other planned 3G content) and the providers can leverage the genuinely low cost of text to undersell their competitor's plans. A pricewar ensues and the consumers win.

    But it hasn't happened yet. My best guess is because the companies realize that the first one to make a substantial move in this direction will only enjoy success for a short time before the others all catch up. Then the competitive advantage is gone and profits have dropped close to zero.

    No, I haven't sourced much of this. It's mostly conclusions from discussions with friends who work in the mobile industry. Feel free to correct the parts I got wrong.

  80. Stupid by dindi · · Score: 1

    It is like calculating how much toilet paper would cost if I flew each roll from Asia to Central America, one by one using first class.

    I mean a nerdy argument, but does not really lead anywhere.

  81. Price vs Cost by francisstp · · Score: 1

    That's a pretty bad analysis. They're really comparing apples with oranges. I'm sure the cost of sending a text message is much lower that a nickel, which is its selling price. In fact the incremental cost of one text message is probably non-significant.

    But they are not comparing this cost to the cost of Hubble data transmission, they are using the price instead. Now I'm sure if there was a market for the Hubble data (is there?) they would sell for more than its cost, as is the case with any other good out there.

  82. Re:Math is HARD, idiocy comes natural by cluckshot · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Somebody is loopy! SMS may be charged a lot for and well these charges are high but the cost of SMS is exactly a grand total of NOTHING.

    I know you are probably asking how and that is quite simple. Your cell phone transmits a 256 byte message very regularly to the receiving tower and it transmits a corresponding message back to you regularly. This is how your cell phone connects to the network and how they know you are able to receive calls etc. This message has 186 bytes of blank space in it .... unless .... you put an SMS message out or they transmit one to you. SMS rides in this carrier byte packet. As such it costs the network exactly nothing and uses no bandwidth that isn't already in use even if nobody ever sent an SMS message.

    So this gets really nice for the company. They bill astronomically for a "Free Good" and we stupidly allow them to bill us for this. SMS should be 100% free with cell phone service. Even the message handling costs are insignificant world wide for this and nobody should ever be billed for it. Of course we stupidly allow them to sell it and we of course buy it stupidly.

    --
    Never Politically Correct ~ I prefer the facts If you don't like what I say, get a life, or comment yourself.
  83. Re:Math is HARD, idiocy comes natural by chdig · · Score: 1

    Have you thought of why that 256 byte message gets sent so regularly? Just a wild guess, but could it be your phone checking to see if there are any new SMS messages?

    I wonder what the charge/MB of SMS would be if all these tiny, almost empty communications were counted.

  84. Dumbass technology by RogueWarrior65 · · Score: 1

    Ever since Space: 1999 showed communicators with little TV screens in them, that's the what communication should look like. Hell, even Star Trek didn't have that. Then again, they could talk from orbit to deep inside... the... center... of... a... dead... planet... buried alive... buried alive. *Shakes uncontrollably* KAHNNNN!!!!!!!! But the damn cellphone companies take us backward a hundred years to something that's one step removed from Morse code. Hell, even the FCC figured out that hams don't need it anymore. GAH!!!!

  85. Lameness of it all by jroysdon · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I've got a Blackberry w/Verizon for work with an unlimited data plan. I can send and receive all the emails I want via my Inbox (tied to my corporate Exchange), or via Gmail, or even via ssh to my shell account with Alpine. They still charge to send and receive (SMS?) text messages. How lame is that? I can use my tethered modem and get a VPN started and use my Cisco IP Communicator, no extra charge, but no text messaging for free!

    My Wife has Cricket, which has unlimited calling and unlimited texting - but doesn't allow her to send emails. Well, it says she can't, and complains each time she does ("Cricket does not support this activity at this time"), but usually it goes through. I think there is a work-around by sending an MMS (?) message and that allowed emailing, but still complains.

    It's all lame. If we're paying for what accounts for unlimited data, just give us unlimited data.

  86. Re:Math is HARD, idiocy comes natural by igny · · Score: 1

    So you are referring to the data overhead. What is about Hubble? I am pretty sure to send 1MB or raw data it actually transfers much more than that, redundancy checks, etc...

    --
    In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is. - Yogi Berra
  87. Actual Costs Involved in Sending SMS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I will try and provide a somewhat serious answer.

    There are a number of expensive hardware and software components that are involved in the SMS flow. If I want to send an SMS from my cell phone to another cell phone at a different carrier, these are some of the costs that come into play. The phone connects to the base station and submits the message to the MSC (mobile switching center) where it travels over SS7 to the SMSC (short message service center). The SS7 network which is the telecommunications signalling network is significantly less efficient than IP and significantly more expensive to operate than an IP network. For example I can walk into a store and buy an ethernet NIC for $15 but SS7 cards which are significantly slower cost at least $10,000 each, primarily due to more complicated signaling that happens on the board and the fact that these are low production run items, not commodity hardware. The SMSC will pass the message to an SMS router which will figure out that the message is not for the local network and pass the message to an intercarrier gateway to be sent to the remote network and the process is reversed. SMS router to SMSC to MSC (after an HLR lookup) to the base station and to the remote handset. The MSCs, SMSCs and SMS Routers are expensive, not just hardware, because they run specialized software. The intercarrier service will also collect some money, maybe 1 cent per message for a domestic message. In addition to the message path, you need billing records at several points in the message lifetime, both for billing purposes and to store for later access by customer service in case someone asks WTF happend to their message. SMSCs are also store and forward engines (think about the case where the phone is off, or out of range) so they need to have large databases. Deploying the infrastructure for SMS services at carriers costs millions to tens of millions of dollars, plus operational and customer support costs. This is not cheap. I have hope that the deployment of SIGTRAN (SS7 over IP) in the carrier networks should drop the cost of an SMS message by a little bit but these are being rolled out slowly. Another possibility would be IMS/SIP based networks might be able to use SIP messages to more cheaply transmit messages but it will take some time before we see anything like that. Intercarrier costs are not likely to be decreasing anytime soon, unless something dramatic happens like ENUM gets merged into standard global DNS networks, which I am not sure would be possible due to privacy concerns.

  88. Length of an SMS related to underlying SS7 network by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    SMS are sent over the SS7 network. The size of the message text is pretty much linked to the allowed size of the packets on the lower level protocols. SMS bearer data (message text and meta-data about the message such as priority etc.) travels over IS-41 MAP or GSM MAP which is on top of TCAP (similar to TCP for SS7) which is on top of SCCP (similar to IP) and MTP3. The maximum size of an MTP3 message is 272 bytes. Each of the higher-level protocol have slightly less size allowed. SCCP has 250 bytes to play with and so on, until you get to the standard 140 8-bit / 160 7-bit characters in the SMS. There is a technique called SCCP XUDT (extended user data) which allows you to segment messages, but it isn't supported by older network elements in most carrier networks. So the size of the SMS is stuck. But I don't mind, it has spawned a world of abbreviations that would not have otherwise existed.

  89. Re:Math is HARD, idiocy comes natural by Urkki · · Score: 0, Redundant

    No the SMS messages are not free. The mobile network infrastructure cost billions and billions to build, and yearly maintenance costs are probably in the billions in the USA alone.

    If you ignore these costs, then also the phone calls and the data connections cost nothing... And yet they charge us for that too! Outrageous!

  90. It is worse by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It is actually even worse.

    There is no extra infrastructure to be placed for SMS - even the billing is built into the mobile switch.

    An SMS may take three days.

    There is no guarantee that an SMS is actually delivered.

    So people saved from distress at see by SMS really should go again and offer their god a second and third time.

    There is no data to move around. It is all in the control channel.

    Your mobile exchanges status messages with the various bits of the mobile infrastructure anyway. This is also an opportunity to add an SMS.

    There is no Content Industry to charge most and make your life miserable, anyway.

    SMS is the optimum product for a Telco. The ROI can not and will probably never ever be matched in any telco product anyway.

  91. Re:Math is HARD, idiocy comes natural by SenseiLeNoir · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I really don't know about what is going on in the USA, regarding these "costs", but I used to work for LogicaCMG (who at one point was responsible for the production of 75% of all the SMS servers in the world). I have also maintained software for routing SMS throughout the world.

    Let me tell you, the actual costs of sending SMS is peanuts. In 2001 it was approximately 0.1p per message. Its actually much cheaper now. This includes cost of electricity, processor power, and all other associated costs.

    A poster below explains how SMS worked previously, that it effectively uses part of the "wasted" sideband in the GSM signalling. This sideband always exists, and if the payload was not used, it is effectively wasted.

    Whilst it is true that although "free" there is a finite limit on the total number of sidebands available for SMS, again technology has come up with a different answer. Most modern GSM phones (Especially Sony Ericsson, and I am certain the others have menu options too) have the ability to send SMS via GPRS as opposed to GSM sideband. GPRS has a far higher bandwidth, and on 3G/HSPDA it can go up to 3.5Mbit per second. This "data rate" is already offered to most people at FAR less costs than SMS.

    The point being is that SMS is extremely cheap for the operators. So why the insane costs? Lets take one2one-uk (now t-mobile-uk). When they started their SMS service in 1997/1998, they charged 4p per message, and made a tidy profit at the time. Very soon afterwards, they ramped their costs to 10p per message. They said they did this to match what vodafone, etc was doing. It appeared that their surveys shown that customers were willing to pay 10p per message!?!

    This was around about the time the 3G auctions happend, and the operators in Europe blew huge amounts of money bidding for the frequencies, hoping the dot com boom will bring immense profits (ie they were greedy)

    What actually happened was, that the dot com era flopped, and the services they were looking to profit from the 3G era simply vanished. Laden with debt, they have used SMS to provide their method of debt recovery.

    Its just pure profit. It particularly shows when they also charge 10p per message when sent through their web interface. grrrrrrrrrr.

    What's even more galling is that that T-Mobile charge 20p per message to send abroad, and when abroad they charge 40p per message (rip off).

    Now when you consider T-Mobile charges 20p per message for MMS (which can contain MUCH more text, and Pictures, AND sound - and should cost more to send). and its 20p irregardless of whether you send from within the UK, or abroad, and to any number in the world. So it PROOVES that the operators CAN reduce costs.

    Finally the same phones sending or receiving SMS and MMS, can also send Email at potentially more cost benefits, and you can see how crazy the whole situation is.

    I can "partly" understand BT charging 10p per text message send via the "landline" here in the UK (yes we have SMS send and receive through landlines as well, with a suitable phone). But its a bit more involved through a landline, as it involves a "hidden" data call both ways to send/receive.

    So there you go.

    --
    Have a nice day!
  92. Intelligent add-on... by KlausBreuer · · Score: 1

    Here in Germany, when cellphones first hit the streets, they were quite expensive. SMS messages between phones, however, were free - a kind of add-on, to see how people like them.

    Apparently the LOVE them - and the companies started charging for it. Looks like they're all making a bucketload of cash on SMSs (which are *quite* cheap for the companies themselves),and obviously they're not dropping the prices.
    After all, people are willing to pay this much, thus they are charged this much...

    Seeing how we can get (cheap) flat-rates on mobile phones here, I simply stopped using SMs.

    --
    Free PC version of ChipWits at http://www.breueronline.de/klaus/chipwits/
  93. Re:Math is HARD, idiocy comes natural by Urkki · · Score: 1

    A poster below explains how SMS worked previously, that it effectively uses part of the "wasted" sideband in the GSM signalling. This sideband always exists, and if the payload was not used, it is effectively wasted. If you call that wasted bandwidth, then just think of all the bandwidth wasted by unused network capacity! You know, at rural areas, at night etc... By that logic, all mobile phone use should be free when there is wasted bandwidth in the network...

    The point being is that SMS is extremely cheap for the operators. So why the insane costs? One simpl reason is, that free SMSes would decrease amount of phone calls made. Therefore the cost of an SMS must reflect the cost of communicating the same thing over a phone call. The price should be optimized so that total revenue from both SMS and phone calls is maximized (also considering the peak network capacity etc).

    Finally the same phones sending or receiving SMS and MMS, can also send Email at potentially more cost benefits, and you can see how crazy the whole situation is. It's crazy only if you imagine a connection where there isn't any. There is no connection between the real cost of an individual SMS/phone call/MMS/... versus its customer price. There only is the total cost of having the network capcity versus the total revenue from all the services provided to customers with that network capacity.

    There might be crazy things about the whole telecom industry (corruption, monopolies, government control gone wrong...), but not having connection between the cost of an individual service and it's price is not one of them. It's just normal business, and every business does it.

    Just think of the actual cost of ingredients in a cup of black coffee in a coffee shop... The cups and the place are there anyway, and that one cup worth of coffee would be thrown out soon if nobody bought it, so the cost is actually almost zero! Only the food and the sugar and the milk should cost, but the black coffee itself should be free! Anyting else is crazy! Or not.
  94. Re:Math is HARD, idiocy comes natural by ClownSoup · · Score: 1

    Using your analogy, coffee, I'll go to my fave diner and order a cuppa joe. Hm. $1.06 and free refills. ... time passes and here I am, hours later, drinking my 5th cuppa joe for free. SMS is a totally overpriced rip-off and anyone that doesn't believe that suffers from delusional insanity.

  95. Re:Math is HARD, idiocy comes natural by Urkki · · Score: 1

    So you spent hours at the diner, just drinking a lot of coffee for $1.06, possibly even hogging a place to sit and driving away more profitable customers? Then the owner probably made a loss, not profit, from your coffee spree. If every customer was like that, ie making the diner a loss by coming there just to drink a lot cheap coffee, then the free refills policy wouldn't last long.

    However, if you also ate something, met a few friends who bought something too, etc, then it probably was very profitable for the owner to give you unlimited refills.

    So, back to the actual topic: if operator gave you free unlimited SMS messages, would you spend more money on phone calls, and also get your friends to spend some money for the benefit of the mobile phone operator? Unlikely...

    But I get your point. You don't want free market economy with businesses that try to maximize their profits, you want an economy where purpose of companies is to provide services to you at the minimal price. Now I'm sure you know that they tried (and are still trying) the latter in a few communist countries, while in some other parts of the world companies are expected to maximize their profits, not minimize their prices. It's funny how the real cost and price of services ends up being cheaper in the model where companies try to maximize their profits, and more expensive or even non-existent in a model where the intention is to have the lowest price...

    Because you can't have it both ways. You can't take the ability of mobile telecom companies to decide their own prices in a competitive market (so you can lower the "overpriced" SMS prices), and still call it a free market.

  96. Re:Math is HARD, idiocy comes natural by Urkki · · Score: 1

    Adding to my other post: You of course have full right, even obligation to complain about the prices you think are too high... That way you can maybe affect how people think about the pricing structure of their mobile phone services, and collectively start demanding and choosing cheaper SMS messages, even if it meant more expensive phone calls.

  97. Re:Math is HARD, idiocy comes natural by Corwn+of+Amber · · Score: 1

    The marginal cost of a SMS is 0.

    They do have a little cost/opportunity. As a matter of fact SMS messages are sent on the control channel. Initially SMS were implemented in the GSM standard as a control system, just like the ICMP protocol of the IP stack. Then NOKIA though to implement a actual instant message function using SMS. The Contol channel is the channel that your mobile listens to in order to receive calls. So for receiving a SMS a control signal is sent. Since bandwidht is somehow limited on these channels it could happen that in a situation of massive usage of texting the control channel gets saturated and normal voice protocol initiation is disrupted. To prevent this carriers nowadays apply a kind of QoS delaying SMSs until there is no risk of congestion. So we can state that the marginal cost is 0 and the cost/opportunity is also 0

            Another story is for the MMSs. Their cost/opportunity is even lower since they run almost enterely on GPRS thus using most bandwidht on normal data channels. Thus a MMS with pictures sounds and maybe video SHOULD cost less than a SMS.

            So you wonder, why do I pay so much for a SMS or a MMS or even a Call: after the debts for the initial hardware infrastructure have been paid by the carrier you are still paying because of market segmentation (You wonâ(TM)t change the carrier on the fly) and a little monopoly (Almost impossible to start a new carrier from 0).

    This hasn't been originally written by me. Found it some day while following links here on /.

    --
    Making laws based on opinions that stem up from false informations leads to witch hunts.
  98. Re:Math is HARD, idiocy comes natural by ClownSoup · · Score: 1
    Actually, I turned off messaging on all my phones. Price was one reason. The other is that I prefer to speak to someone instead of - lolz omg tks - deciphering their messages.

    Unlimited free messages or talk time is not what I'm after though. I'm about fair pricing. If the actual cost of a sms message is a penny per dozen, then I expect to pay no more than 300%, or 3 cents per dozen. If the company is selling sms messages like hotcakes, I expect to pay a lot less, say 12 to 15% overhead, because the company is making boatloads of profit.

  99. Re:Math is HARD, idiocy comes natural by mr_mischief · · Score: 1

    As with eating in a restaurant, what you use is little of the cost and the people who make sure you get served high-quality stuff in a timely manner are the bulk of the cost. Those towers don't just function without staff to oversee them. There's probably still enormous profit involved, but that's why the companies offer the service.

  100. Re:Math is HARD, idiocy comes natural by SenseiLeNoir · · Score: 1

    A poster below explains how SMS worked previously, that it effectively uses part of the "wasted" sideband in the GSM signalling. This sideband always exists, and if the payload was not used, it is effectively wasted. If you call that wasted bandwidth, then just think of all the bandwidth wasted by unused network capacity! You know, at rural areas, at night etc... By that logic, all mobile phone use should be free when there is wasted bandwidth in the network...


    Again, you didn't understand what I meant by "wasted" bandwidth. Effectively, in GSM, there is a need for the phone to periodically (and often) connect to the Cell (and vice versa) as part of this connect, a small data packet is sent to and from. Either phone initiated, or cell initiated. This packet is part of the sub-band carriers, and is reserved away from call use. It will not take away any bandwidth from calls at all. This packet is extremely small, I have forgotten the exact size, but its somewhere along the 250 bytes size.

    However, the current presence scheme does not use ALL of this packet, and there is a lot of empty space, doing nothing. SMS was traditionally slotted into this "wasted" space, which would otherwise be blank.

    One simpl reason is, that free SMSes would decrease amount of phone calls made. Therefore the cost of an SMS must reflect the cost of communicating the same thing over a phone call. The price should be optimized so that total revenue from both SMS and phone calls is maximized (also considering the peak network capacity etc). I do not know the situation in the USA, but in the UK, and most of europe, and probably the rest of the world. Amongst the public (not business) users, SMS already is used far more than phone calls. This is even considering in most cases, SMS communication can be far more expensive than the equivelent call.

    Eg, a call to say:
    "Darling I am stuck on the train will be late"
    "what time will you be in"
    "8:00 am"
    "Ok, take care see you soon"

    Would only take a minute and would cost about 10p, or normally part of the free minuites. The same conversation via SMS would reach 40p (4x10p messages). Though would more likely be a single message, and a possible response (10/20p).

    Secondly the actual bandwith used:
    a 160 char Text message uses 140 bytes for 10p. a 1 minuite phone call at 2G GSM (9600bps) would use 60 x 9600bits = 576000bits = 72000 bytes, for the same 10p call. This is actual usable bandwith. add overhead, etc, the actual bandwith is higher. Add to that, that phone calls are a QoS issue, where bandwidth HAS to be reserved during a phone call, and cannot be "shaped" in the way data can be.

    With 3g, and 3.5G (HSDPA) with maximum bandwith approaching 3.5 MBps, and more. and with "data plans" such as my T-Mobile Web and Walk plus, which gives me effectively 3GB data transfer per month at ANY rate (2.5G GPRS, 3G UMTS, or 3.5G HSDPA) at £12 a month. Also I have just switched my contract to a T-Mobile "solo" package, which for £30 per month (and only a 30day contract, not 18 months, or two years), gives me 1400 minuets a month to any landline/mobile, and (finally)unlimited text. It just puts it all into perspective about what CAN be done, what is TECHNICALLY possible, and what is COMMERCIALLY possible.

    But while people are willing to pay 10p per message, and look at bundles as "value" the companies will continue to cream their profits!

    ITs the same reason why a HDMI cable costs £30 in Dixons, and the SAME cable, from an online retailer can cost £4. People pay for a perceived value (Digital is greater than analogue), and until their perceptions change, companies will be willign to charge for it.
    --
    Have a nice day!
  101. Re:Math is HARD, idiocy comes natural by Corwn+of+Amber · · Score: 1

    Ridiculous. Those towers would work just as well if the normal SMS were free and they were entirely subsidized by "ringtones" and "dating" services, where the carrier takes 35% commission on all sales.

    The towers need nearly zero maintenance as well. I know that. They have to be checked once every two or three years, and that's when the company wants them checked much more often than they have a chance to fail.

    In a restaurant, you have to pay for the food, first. Then for the fixed costs, then the service. Those things are not multiplicable a zillion times at zero cost. Food is used only once, service is used only once. The profits are not enormous, they are obscene. There should be laws against large-scale organized price-fixing and abuse of position, don't you think?

    --
    Making laws based on opinions that stem up from false informations leads to witch hunts.
  102. Re:Math is HARD, idiocy comes natural by mr_mischief · · Score: 1

    Well, I live in an area of heavy snow in winter and high winds and lots of lightning in the spring and summer. We tend to see technicians at the towers every few weeks.

    The customer service people, the phone network admins, the billing department, and the management need to be paid, too. The management probably need to be paid less before the shareholders are paid less, because most US companies overpay top management ludicrously anyway.

    I do agree that large-scale price fixing and abuse of market position should be illegal. Let's start with the gasoline industry, in which a daily price change takes about 5 minutes to make it to every station in a town of 115,000 people that covers 54 square miles, like Springfield IL. If that's not price fixing, then there's no meaning to the words.

    SMS charges are somewhere down the line from that for me, since I receive them for free and rarely pay $0.10 to send one (new plans are $0.20 apiece, which is silly and outrageous). I can get 250 per month to send for $4.95 if I really need them. That's $0.02 apiece. Not bad. There's even a $9.95 for 750 package or $14.95 for unlimited. Unlimited for a family plan is $19.95 a month. Personally, I do pay $10 a month for unlimited data service on my phone, and I can use Yahoo! Mail or GMail from that if I'm desperate enough to need to use a little bitty keypad to send a message.

  103. Verizon text costs by bjb · · Score: 1
    My employer recently blocked access to the web based text service that I'd use regularly to keep in touch with my girlfriend (she has one of those "unlimited everything" type plans where mine is cheapest possible). In a bit of frustration, I thought for a moment about the history of my text plan prices.

    • Late 2001: $0.10 to send, $0.02 to receive.
    • Circa 2003: $0.10 to send or receive.
    • Circa 2005: $0.12 to send or receive.
    • Circa 2007: $0.15 to send or receive.
    • Today: $0.20 to send or receive.
    (note that this does not include picture or media messaging which is $0.25)

    Now what is lovely is that they don't offer a text plan to go with my voice plan because it is obsolete (yeah, the "upgraded" one is more expensive and more restrictive). And so wonderful when they sent me a cheery reminder to get a text plan because "rates are going up". Yes, like the cost of sending a 140 byte message is a serious burden on their network? Please.

    I guess I'm just appalled by the fact that my text rate went up 1000% since I first started using it. Unbelievable. This is complete fleecing and introducing artificial rate increases.

    waah.

    --
    Never hit your grandmother with a shovel, for it leaves a bad impression on her mind...