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Studies Confirm That Bad Boys Get More Girls
seattlle foodie sends along a New Scientist article outlining two recent studies that confirm what many have long suspected: bad boys get the most girls. "The finding may help explain why a nasty suite of antisocial personality traits known as the 'dark triad' persists in the human population, despite their potentially grave cultural costs. The traits are: the self-obsession of narcissism; the impulsive, thrill-seeking, and callous behavior of psychopaths; and the deceitful and exploitative nature of Machiavellianism. At their extreme, these traits would be highly detrimental for life in traditional human societies. People with these personalities risk being shunned by others and shut out of relationships, leaving them without a mate, hungry and vulnerable to predators."
But it is not an excuse. Women who repeatedly get used in these types of relationships and then go cry to their geek friends deserve no sympathy. They should be smart enough to figure it out.
This is why I have no use for women.
...that's why it works
boys with bad karma? /. will get me all the chicks
Trolling
But I'm not nice! I hacked into my school servers many times and got suspended because of that! I use public wlans all the time, that is not nice! Why don't I get the girls :(
'being just slightly evil could have an upside: a prolific sex life' Apparently I'm not even slightly evil, though I wish I was...
"I worry that some day my child will ask me, 'Dad, where were you when they took freedom of the press from the internet?
I know that's the only reason I would ever pirate software---chicks dig a nice new copy of Leisure Suit Larry.
I foresee a balanced and fair thread with little to no flaming from this article.
let me translate this... so their self-confident, exciting, and maybe appear to be rich
...on whether or not these bad boys get more consensual sex
Women always say they want a man that is nice, helpful, respectful and will treat them right. But, you see it time after time...they go for the guys that are assholes, abusive (sometimes even physically).
I personally like to be a 'nice guy'. But, in my early years...I would often find myself ending up as the "friend" of the girl, and ended up listening to them go on and on about how much of a jerk this guy or that guy was, yet they still went with and slept with these guys. And, once you are in the friend zone before sleeping with them, you generally never get out of that zone.
I tried after all that, to emulate somewhat the actions and attitudes I saw the successful 'assholes' did towards women, and guess what? Yep...I started getting more 'lucky'.
If you are a bit aloof, and difficult...they for the most part won't leave you alone.
Women generally don't seem to really want what they say they want in a man.
Oh..they may eventually grab the steady, meeker nice guy, and have kids with them because they are stable, but then they will often go out and cheat....with the bad boy they meet and find they are sexually attracted and excited by.
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
Studies confirm that studies confirming something everyone already knows tend to be highlighted on Slashdot more than other studies.
Why waste so much time and money to come to such obvious conclusion which everybody knows?
Well, now that science has figured it out, maybe we can find some kind of cure for stupid chicks that go after guys who are going to treat them like shit.
bad boys get the most girls.
"The finding may help explain why a nasty suite of antisocial personality traits known as the 'dark triad' persists in the human population, despite their potentially grave cultural costs. [...]
People with these personalities risk being shunned by others and shut out of relationships, leaving them without a mate, hungry and vulnerable to predators."
Does it help you get laid, or what??
== Jez ==
Do you miss Firefox? Try Pale Moon.
If you have a large enough population of players where nearly everyone plays co-operate, the 2 or 3 assholes who play to betray do quite well. They only pay the price if they play the same opponent a few times. Without paying the price, they will do quite well.
END COMMUNICATION
...and sluts get more bad boys.
"Water is Wet", proclaims billion dollar study. We've also inadvertently discovered a relationship between financial status and attractiveness to women, as well as confirming that there just might be something to that theory of gravity thing.
"Linux doesn't exist. Everyone knows Linux is an unlicensed version of Unix"- Kieren O'Shaughnessy
What may seem "obvious" does not necessarily make it so upon further testing. These studies are performed to confirm or deny such notions. If the study had found the opposite, you would not be having such a reaction. People used to think it was "obvious" that heavier objects fell faster than lighter objects. Turns out that they were wrong.
However I fail to see why this is news for nerds or stuff that matters? Maybe it's an effort to activate the subconscious message which was included in the recent slashdot dating advertisement?
/humor for the humor impaired.
1) Include subliminal message in dating advertisement
2) post article about bad boys get the girls
3) Slashdot crowd puts 1+1 together
4) profit!?!?
Although this is common knowledge to most males, women constantly state that this is in fact false, and not only do they say it, they seem to truly believe it. Of course this "belief" seems to have no basis in reality as they talk to their "nice" guy friends about how they wish they could just find a "nice" guy, all the while ignoring him to chase the guys they constantly complain about...
yes... I've had that speech from women far too often "you're so nice, why can't the guys I date be more like you?" (ummm... maybe you would consider dating the person you want your guys to be like???)
I'd say go for the Quality instead - all you need is just one, for the long term.
The nicest bunch of guys anywhere on the net.
Even if the "bad boy" thing is true.
Taken to their extremes they may be, but self-confidence, thrill-seeking, and the daily deceits of life are the price we pay to function in society. Is it deceit to tell someone that you don't find particularly attractive that they look good today? You often do this with gatekeepers you need on your side.
And self-confidence and narcissism can lead to trying new things and succeeding at them. This is a feedback loop that leads to more success. Sometimes feeling that you are better than others is merely a reflection of simple truth. How that translates into how you treat others is the test of whether it is psychopathic. Some people that are superior look down on others. Some become mentors and try to lift all the boats around them.
It seems many of these traits are only seen as evil by those that feel that everyone is a unique special snowflake which reality proves is incorrect every second of every day.
But how does this explain hot chicks with ugly dudes?
"You'll get nothing, and you'll like it!"
There are some how-to books for dating that advocate being a complete asshole. I download (pirate) books more than anything, and occasionally I'll see a dating guide that I'll skim over. Anyone with a social life has probably noted that there is a serious art in treating women like crap, and it will get you laid quickly.
To speculate why this trait would be advantageous from an evolutionary standpoint, many people who treat women like crap have a "me-first" attitude, and are skilled manipulators of their social surroundings. To use an anecdote, I have a friend who is very good at picking up smokin'-hot young women in college bars (hes in college too). Despite having a relatively-low GPA, being a serious pot-head, and alcoholic, he has managed to finagle scholarship after scholarship out of his department. People like him; but I have never met anyone that the adage "familiarity breeds contempt" applies to more. I unfortunately know him well enough to understand that he is a borderline psychopath in regards to his empathy for other human beings.
Back to why this is an evolutionary advantage, his "me-first" attitude will become an "us-first" attitude when he gets married, he will have no problem fucking-over his friends, co-workers, bosses, and neighbors for personal gain, because people will tolerate it to a certain extent. This is because he is largely like-able, although he avoids people enough so that they don't grow tired of his constantly selfish attitude.
To sum my point, so-called "bad boys" that women like are skilled social manipulators that pull no punches. They probably are impressed by that, although this person has few desirable traits, people seem to like him, and also he gets what he wants by asserting social dominance through being well-liked.
Being a "bad boy" and in IT at the same time is very possible
... and my sources being every woman I know, women like dangerous men because they fuck good. Seriously. 9/10 of the chicks I asked this to told me that. My wife even likes it when I do dangerous things (that don't directly involve her or our son) and when I ask her why she says "I don't know, I just like to see you work hard." That doesn't make much sense, but she's always horny afterwards.
The eternal struggle of good vs. evil begins within one's self.
We do get around. /. is getting more and more irrelevant as time goes by. I am tired of seeing several day old news most of us left minutes after it was posted in a news outlet.
Straight guys get that talk from women too? Weird.
as they talk to their "nice" guy friends about how they wish they could just find a "nice" guy, all the while ignoring him to chase the guys they constantly complain about...
Speaking as someone who was a "nice guy" all through highschool, it's the fault of the nice guy as well. Why buy the cow if the milk is free? If a "nice guy" is going to be a "good friend" and supply emotional support/fulfillment then the cute girl doesn't have to have that need met by her conceited prick boyfriend. Girls who date pricks will always want to have a nice guy friend, because girls need emotional fulfillment in the same way that guys need sexual fulfillment. So all you nice guys out there stop giving it away for free, get your needs met as well or get out of that relationship. When they say "you're so nice, why can't the guys I date be more like you?" point out that emotionally they are dating you, they just happen to be fucking someone else.
We are all just people.
So me being gay, that's why I can't get the boys? Girls are crawling all over me? Oh wait...
April fools?
Bullshit conclusion. I have not had many partners during the last couple of years, but it wasn't because nobody was attracted to me, rather it was because I was in a relationship that lasted more than 3 years. The findings in the study could just as well be explained by suggesting women don't stay in a relationship with an asshole, or that the assholes don't bother with long term relationships, resulting in "bad guys" having multiple short relationships while the "nice" guys have fewer longer ones. You really can't conclude much about women's preferences from this.
The people in question ARE the predators.
I am very small, utmostly microscopic.
I could not put it better. Please...someone with mod point hit the parent up here.
The sad thing is....SO many guys don't learn this till much later in life. You blow it in your teen years when you can do your most and best serious fucking....
I wish to hell I'd learned this lesson early in life when I was 16+....I did pretty good, but, nowhere NEARLY as well as some of my friends, and I just never knew why back then. Thankfully I figured it out in my 20's.....
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
Girls like danger, that's why I cover myself with glass when I go out on the weekends.
If you RTFA carefully you notice the article does not say that women prefer men with these antisocial personality traits. It says that those men want and have more short-term relationships. It may very well be as simple as "nice guys" preferring longer relationships. Concluding that girls like bad boys from this study is just prejudice.
Conclusion: read articles carefully, even when they confirm your preconceived ideas.
All clans and tribes need cannon fodder ... the young men who will go in after the cave bear, or attack the other tribe. So young women find a settled mature tribesman who will be a good provider, AND cuckolds him with one of the wild boys to produce an offspring or two to refill the cannon fodder supply.
Not only will this make you less of an emotional bitch for her, but it will also show at least some of the qualities that she seems to like -- assertiveness, bluntness...
Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
I suspect many of the guys here have heard that, and I am no exception. I used to joke that I was the most attractive guy in the world to women who weren't looking for a relationship because of how frequently married women had wonderful things to say about me. (the most painful was when they implied I must be fighting off the women because I was so wonderful; that certainly never matched my experience)
Since I have gotten married I these comments haven't stopped, though they are now made to my wife instead of me. My wife is constantly being bombarded with "You're so lucky!", "How on earth did you find him?", "Where was he hiding?" and the like. Like others here, not only was I not hiding, but couldn't get a date for the life of me (I can count the women I dated on my thumbs, and interestingly they both asked me out, meaning that exactly 0% of the women I ever asked out said yes).
I don't know why it should be so shocking that if the criteria you use to choose your dates doesn't have anything to do with what you are looking for that the chances of getting what you are looking for are slim. However, it seems that for most people (women and men) the idea of screening candidates by qualities that actually match the things you want is alien.
Waa Waa Waa. The big tough guys are gettin all the girls. Sounds like a sack full of kittens just before their thrown in the river. If I wasn't so far away I'd sock you in the mouth! I'd tear you limb from limb! I'd stomp you into the ground so deep that when I finished all they'd have to do is plant a stinkin head stone!
(I'm reading that out loud as I type here at the office and the girls are lining up behind me! This shit really works! Why do they all have coffee mugs in their hands..? oh wait... It's that hunky coffee guy refilling the coffee maker again... never mind... damit!)
Long term partner? Sure, they tend to lose those. But, in a darwinian sense, that hardly matters compared with...
To accept your genes and create the next generation with your genetic line rather than someone else's?
The narcisist who wants to pass their genes on doesn't need a loving relationship. Indeed, for the narcisist, what better than a woman who'll find them attractive, take their genes, then let someone else raise the child as their own?
Sure, they may be ostracized from society. Sure, they may have a harder time surviving. Sure, they may die younger. But, if they've already passed their genes on to several different women, they've likely out performed the monogamous men on a darwinian level.
Darwin doesn't care how comfortable your life is. Darwin cares whether, overall, you meet the requirement of passing on your genes. This whole "valued part of society, died at 80" thing is meaningless to Darwin if your competitor has happily bred with your wife at 20 and you've spent the next sixty years raising three generations of someone else's genetic line that are now populating the planet and passing on their traits.
If in a particular species individuals prevail for a short term but long term destroy their habitat, the species fails to suceed and something else will take it's place.
Does anyone know how often Robert Mugabe has reproduced his 0.5 gene set with a female succumbing to his kind of "attraction"?
This is old story. We humans are developed and so we pretend having little of few links with animal behavior. A female monkey goes for the alpha male. A human female does the same.
Strangely enought if you remind our females that they are acting like monkeys it causes them to get hysteric. The best strategy is of course behave like a alpha male, causing havok in society and keeping earth a bad competitive place for everyone else.
I suggest anyone this read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Selfish_Gene it explains everything and it's from the '90.
Note that "If every man could get a blowjob each morning there would be no wars" I don't remember who wrote it but it's a golden quote.
The interesting thing is that nobody denies that the jerks often get the girls, but most guys can't remake themselves into jerks even for sex. In my opinion, THIS is what makes fucking the jerks and getting the nice guys to help raise the babies a viable strategy. We should all just decide "fuck nice" and be the assholes that women reward with sex, and maybe a couple generations from now nice will be back in vogue.
Except, of course, that we can't. But it's fun to think about.
As a wise old man once told me, "To get ahead in life, you have to skirt the rules just enough to not get caught."
P.S. While recognizing the truth of the statement, I don't live by it.
Everybody's going on about how this article confirms that "girls want bad boys", when in actual fact it merely underscores that "bad boys get more girls".
It seems to me that the bad boys "get" the girls through deceit.
Maybe girls really do want the nice, stable guys - and the bad boys are expert at acting the part, but more suavely than the real nice guys could, since they're not limited by actually meaning anything they say.
TFA doesn't say if women actually preferred, even subconsciously, these "bad" traits, or if the study just found that guys who exhibit these traits had more relationships. I wonder if it's a minority of women who gravitated to these guys.
And since these "bad guys" lean towards short-term relationships, I wonder if it just means that these bad guys are all sleeping with a smaller subset of women since they don't seem to form lasting relationships anyway.
Misleading article? Misleading conclusion? I'd like to see the study. Not all the women I've known and dated have had this tendency. The ones that I HAVE come across don't get any sympathy from me when they come complaining.
These are the same people who become managers and make the big bucks. See http://www.softpanorama.org/Social/Toxic_managers/psychopath_in_the_corner_office.shtml
Cheers,
Dave
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither safety nor liberty.
Ben
This research makes just as much sense when flipping it around: If you got some genes that makes the girls come running, it may cause your personality to become self-centered and exploitive.
Or there could be a root cause and have nothing to do with genes at all. For example, "power". Girls like guys with power, while power corrupts the personality.
I lost my sig.
What about the fact that those with "bad boy" traits might be FAR MORE LIKELY to lie their asses off about the number or partners, number of encounters, etc to make themselves look good? Think some jerk is going to tell some research dweeb, "Dude, I don't get laid, it's all an act..." ? No way! "Dude, I get laid 10 times a day, I'm on the edge, I'm cool, chicks dig me." No doubt, bad guys tend to have more of an edge, appear cooler and may get more chicks, sure. But how much of this is hubris on the part of the participants?
Sig Registration Form 34c_766(a) submitted to Ministry of Signature Management. Approval pending.
Are there bad boy dogs and cats walking around getting laid all the time? What about those bad ass dolphins that where the leather coats and carry a switchblade?
Can I bum a sig?
"Bad boys" are only succesful with women with low self-esteem. More precisely, women who have been abused as children, or had an abusive relationship between mother and father as a model (which is also a form of abuse directed towards the child), will grow up and seek partners that will full fill their life scenario. They have learned that men are abusive towards women, and that's the only thing they know and can think of following.
Part of this is very clearly explained by Eric Berne's transactional analysis. It's fascinating that a relatively old psychological methodology can give answers to so many social phenomena - like (some) women going for the "bad boys".
"The agriculture ministry is not in charge of Gundam" - Japanese ministry official.
You wouldn't still have her number, would you ?
8)
It takes 40+ muscles to frown, but only four to extend your arm and bitchslap the motherfucker
Well, they were more or less right for the conditions they were testing in. In the atmosphere.
The next study should investigate the connection of this finding to Stockholm Syndrome. My take on this is that "bad boys" don't get more women simply because they are mean, but because a single nice act is much more noticeable when it isn't expected. The nice guys become predictably nice, and women expect nothing less from them. A guy who is generally an asshole, on the other hand, gets noticed every time he does something even a little nice.This is why nice guys who decide to try being a jerk for a week or so fail; it is their mean actions that stand out.
In comparison, this works exactly the same as Stockholm Syndrome. Hostages become accustomed to their captors' brutality, and are surprised and grateful whenever a captor grants them a small amount of compassion.
The lesson here, guys, is that paying attention or showing compassion to a woman is something to be done only in moderation. Too little and they start to avoid you, too much and they begin to expect it.
Why buy the cow if the milk is free?
To butcher and use for it's meat later on?
Bad people are more focused than we are.
We started off talking about women, and inside of four posts we're discussing the merits of different browser types.
Weaselmancer
rediculous.
Two words: Ladder Theory.
LRN 2 SWM
Seriously. Cut it out.
You'll get laid just as much as you do now, but with less headaches.
And maybe by asserting yourself you might impress some girl. Strange that pushing them away seems to attract them, but it is sometimes true.
Weaselmancer
rediculous.
My experience as a former nice guy with lots of female "friends" is that nice guys are mostly assholes trying to be nice guys. The thing that's keeping you from success is not that you're a nice guy. It's that you're not really a nice guy. Nice guy needs to be who you are, not what your strategy is, or it doesn't work.
I like that article. Reminds me of the Ladder Theory.
Weaselmancer
rediculous.
Uncircumsized men don't need lubrication to masturbate ;)
Sounds like some evolutionary biologists are a bit bitter.
Honestly, I think a lot of women go back and forth on what they "want" out of relationships. If they just got out of a long relationship with a stereotypical "bad boy", there's a good chance the next thing they want is a "nice, sweet" type of guy. But once they DO find him, I give it 6-12 months, tops, before it's over. Why? Because after she gets bored with having something "totally different" than the last guy she was still mad at, the old desires creep back in.
Women with an interest in the "bad" types of guys typically like those relationships partially because deep down, they don't like having to make many decisions. It's more "comfortable" for them to be with a real assertive guy who says "Hey, we're going HERE tonight!" instead of the "nice" guy who is really concerned she might not like the place he was initially thinking of going out to dinner, or truly has an "I don't care... I enjoy doing pretty much ANYTHING with you, baby!" attitude.
Of course, if you make all the decisions and she consistently dislikes them, then you get labeled the "asshole" too. So the successful "bad boy" also has to pull off the ability to REALLY show her a good time, while he's making all those entertainment choices for her.
When this topic arises, I often, if not always, link to the article What Happened to All the Nice Guys? .
Every nice guy's recommended reading.
Ignore this signature. By order.
They'll fall faster if you drop them from a height of say, 100 million kilometers.
Whatever... IMHO younger partners are quite frankly not as good in bed. Yeah there are some limits to be sure, but in general it just gets better. There is nothing special about being young.
The thing is guys.... we're all assholes! Ask any girl (if you know any).
You shoudl be smatr enouhg to raelize that teh pesron is probalby a dyslexic.
Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
...that mankind subconsciously as a whole wants to propagate the (perceived) stronger genes of the species..
We are still animals at our core, so why is anyone surprised?
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Uh, there are serious problems with this study, most notable that it relies upon self-reporting of sexual activity by at most a few dozen or so college-aged males (the total sample size is 200 men and women) who rank high in narcissistic, psychopathic, and manipulative behavior. Anyone else think there may be a problem with that?
Ironically, the lead author of this study has another one coming out entitled, "The power of prestige: Why young men report having more sex partners than young women."
I rant about all this a bit more here. ..bruce..
Bruce F. Webster (brucefwebster.com)
Nosesoda. I'm sorry I already commented on this thread and can't use my mod points.
THANK YOU.
i'll take an older nice guy over a young bad boy any day of the week.
or an older bad boy over a young bad boy, come to think of it.
even an older nice guy over a young nice guy.
young nice guy seems to win out over older bad boy too, but the sample size there is too small for me to prove statistical significance.
Oh yes, yet another "duh!".
But there's so much more behind this that has not been explored by serious scientists yet but mostly by pop psychology (check out some of the material in the "seduction community", David DeAngelo's stuff for example.)
Testosterone: It is known that some "Badness" is correlated with testosterone levels. Young men have a lot of it floating around, which makes them attractive to women. Later in life they mellow out or even get "wussified", i.e. have reduced testosterone levels typically from being in a LTR. Nothing wrong with that, it's obviously beneficial. Now too low testosterone levels are a disadvantage, that's why women seek out men with high testosterone levels, and the "Badness" may be a major indicator for that.
The "sexy sons" theory and runaway evolution: This kind of behavior might be yet another peacock tail. Females like it, and one of the reasons they like it that it would give sons an evolutionary advantage. Circular "reasoning" but positive feedback ensues until it runs up against a limit. Geoffrey Miller would probably say that these complex behaviors are the main reason we evolved a big brain in the first place.
Last not least, direct evolutionary benefit: Females of many species, including humans, are known to increase the genetic diversity of their offspring by cheating on a long term mate. Their long term mate is probably more of a "nice guy", so it would be advantageous, if they cheat, to cheat with somebody with a very different personality, i.e. genetic makeup. And of course you need somebody who's quick off the bat and not clingy for an affair.
thegodmovie.com - watch it
A guy who isn't confident isn't going to take care of her.
You do not choose who you are attracted to-- it's emotional.
Picture girls as a computer with their own well-defined logic and set of instructions.
If you program them right, you will do well. Otherwise, you are going to get the blue screen of death.
David D'angelo has some good points and techniques- you can find a lot of his stuff on torrent sites.
Read it. Learn it. Know it.
Don't think of girls as bad/stupid but recognize if you do not press the right buttons, you are not going to get the right responses.
Mostly, you need to hit on/flirt with enough girls so that you get comfortable around women. As long as you are not comfortable, you are going to give them the creeps in subtle ways and chase them off.
She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
Frequency and recovery my friend.
You may gain some extra skills as you get older, and you'd better to keep them interested. But, when you're in your teens and early 20's....it sure is nice to fuck, bust a nut...and still stay hard and be ready to go again. Not to mention 3-5+ times a night.
That all goes away when you get into your 40's........or so I hear.
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
Yes I agree, if she's saying that, then you should try and try hard.
Well basically the male is obligated to try hard with any female he really really wants. It is fine if she says no, but your not trying will just make everyone unhappy.
The Christian religion has been and still is the principal enemy of moral progress in the world. -- Bertrand Russell
Trouble is....there is no manual that comes with you at birth as a male. Unfortunately, it often takes awhile for most guys to learn then if they ever do. We're taught growing up in society (at least in my time) to be polite and respect women, etc....and these days, you have to be wary of being too aggressive with women from a legal standpoint. You can get accused of attempted rape even if you didn't do anything wrong, and you can be branded for life, because in today's society mere accusation can kill you socially at the very least.
But back to what you said...we guys often are dumb and have no idea. The guys that succeed just somehow 'know' much earlier than the rest...
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
Come on /. - you can do better than *that*!!!
;D
"...there are some things that can beat smartness and foresight. Awkwardness and stupidity can." ~ Mark Twain
A young boy will "fall in love" with a girl and ignore all others.
What they should be doing is flirting with and being nice to every girl they see regardless of if they have a chance or not.
And taking baths and brushing their teeth. Lots of young guys have no idea how horrible their mouths smell.
She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
Why do you do that to yourself?
How can you take that kind of abuse?
Reminds me of an old song by The Offspring: "The more you suffer, the more it shows you really care, right?"
No, really, I would like to know what makes you stick to being Mr. Niceguy, even though it doesn't seem to work out very well.
Truth arises more readily from error than from confusion. -Francis Bacon
Hint : If she says that, then you should kiss her, quite aggressively.
The Christian religion has been and still is the principal enemy of moral progress in the world. -- Bertrand Russell
Amen amen amen!!
The Christian religion has been and still is the principal enemy of moral progress in the world. -- Bertrand Russell
Negative Attention is the type of attention that bad boys give girls. Typically, the type of girl that seeks a bad boy wants attention more than anything. Negative attention will be more attention than positive attention in the eyes of someone who seeks attention. nope, I am not some shrink, some opiniated women full of fluff.. I have been there, done that, and I can see it now, but then I was blinded by what I thought was 'love' - whatever! Now, later, with a nice guy, I see what real love is from a spouse.
That's what happened to me in High School. I was the stereotypical 'nice guy' until I realized that I wasn't being nice as much as I was being horney and (unsuccessfully) using 'nice' as a way to fulfill that need. So, I based my social interactions on the truth, that I was in fact horney, and nice (but not nearly as nice as I had acted before). The nice learned it's limit fast, the horney made itself obvious, but not desperate (lude jokes, obvious sexual passes, but not lamenting about a lack of sex life) and I stopped caring so much. I ended up losing a couple female friends. I also ended up loosing a couple female friends. (my first joke based on a typo! yay!) Overall, just the refreshing honesty of being myself was a relief, the fact that it WORKED, CONSISTENTLY, was outstanding. In fact, by the time I settled down, I was picking and choosing between women.
I still wore glasses, I still was fat (250 or so on a 5'11" frame, I didn't lose any weight until I was nearly married), but I was witty (like most nerds can be when not overwhelmingly nervous) I was seemingly confident (it was actually apathy, at first) and I was laid on a regular basis.
There ya go, neomunk's nerd-dating testimonial. You can live your dreams, I'm living proof... Beefcake!
The 'bad boys' are an excellent litmus test for defective genes and/or bad upbringing in the women that are attracted to them.
People (well adjusted ones, that is) develop a sort of radar for personality defects somewhere in adolescence. As they learn, they are bound to make a few mistakes. The end result of which is the one with defective personality traits getting kicked to the curb and being back on the market for another relationship. The well adjusted one learns from his/her mistakes and makes a better selection the next time around, resulting in a longer relationship, but fewer of them. Meanwhile, the losers start to hook up with losers of the opposite sex for as long as they can tolerate each other.
These 'bad boy' studies all seem to treat the pool of available women as uniform. Its not. Look at what Kevin Federline's jackass punk image earned him.
Have gnu, will travel.
Women willfully confuse arrogance with confidence in their sexual partners. Limit state benefits to one child per mother and they'll start making smarter choices.
You said, "Women who are abused are not the ones to blame. They are the ones who have the power to stop it but they are not really to blame."
Yes, women are to blame for what they do. They have the same responsibility for their own actions as men.
This is just more of the same old Slashdot pseudo-science that is posted as a real story.
"Bad boys" communicate that women have no responsibility toward them. That's what women want when they just want to have sex. Only that. Try it yourself. If you communicate that women have no responsibility, they will want sex with you, too.
You might need considerable practice, because at present you may have no idea what you are actually communicating.
Yes, it is a compliment when a woman wants to be intimate with you. But, after a lot of that, it gets annoying. Only a real, responsible relationship with a woman who wants to be true partners will give you what you need as a human.
If you communicate that you want a real relationship, then it will be difficult to find a woman in the United States, because the culture in the United States is going through a period in which women are very negative toward men.
Try different countries. Things can be very, very different in a country other than your home country. Put on a backpack and hitchike through Europe during the summer. I recommend the Greek island of Ios in July. (But, I haven't been there in a long time.) The Greeks are nice but the real attraction is other travelers from all over Europe. Two-thousand-five-hundred women and an equal number of men, with nothing to do but socialize.
Take buses and trains in less-developed countries. Stay in cheap hostels for backpackers. Read Let's Go: Europe. Read the Lonely Planet guides. You will meet women travelers who are a bit different because they also have decided to do a little more with their lives than stay home.
If you want a wife, try looking in Brazil, where women are a little less religious about avoiding responsibility. If you look in Brazil, don't just marry the first Brazilian woman who seems wonderful. Talk to your woman about responsibility. If you don't get good answers, try other women. Learn the Brazilian culture. Learn the Brazilian social sophistication.
You might also try Thailand, but you would probably need to learn to speak and write Thai, and you would need to learn an Asian culture, and it would be more difficult to find a truly mature woman. Remember the lyrics of the song "One night in Bangkok". Don't just fall in love with the first Thai woman who is nice to you.
Quote from the song: "One night in Bangkok and the tough guys tumble. Can't be too careful with your company."
The song is about a real event. One year the world chess championship was held in Thailand. The men went out at night, and were not prepared for the experience of being treated with gentleness. The Dalai Lama says that Thai people are gentle, and he's right.
I've seen it myself. One night, a long time ago, standing on the corner of Patpong road, a western woman was trying to get control over her western man again after he had seen in a Thai bar that a woman could be truly gentle with a man. All the man had known in his entire life, apparently, was women being harsh with men.
Again, don't marry the first Thai woman who is nice to you. Learn the culture. Learn the special challenges of being multi-cultural yourself and having a multi-cultural relationship.
A good idea, if you are in a country in which the native language is not English, is to hang around a school that teaches English. When you see a woman who is interesting, offer to have a conversation in English with her, so that she can practice, if she will teach you the Thai culture. In Thailand, you might try visiting the
His theory is that they now have daughters in high school, and wish their daughters were interested in males like him, and not like the ones they themselves had dated.
You're an inspiration to us all, man. :')
You're probably just too hard for the girls to read. They're searching and searching for your MD5 Hash dumps....but they can't seem to find the real you. Its okay man...
If they're that high, they've run all out of speed before they reach you.
Here is my favorite illustration http://www.laddertheory.com/
"There is nothing to do it. But to do it." -Floyd Pepper
I'm just starting to figure out this technique myself. I'm 23, and a recovering nice guy. Not only was I aloof during high school, I didn't figure it out in college either. But now, I'm starting (crosses fingers) to make up for lost time.
Here are a few things I've learned in the short time since I started to "get it":
Overall, cast a wide net. The probability of success is not quite 0. The more women you talk to, the greater the chance of succeeding with one of them.
I read this years ago, and it still holds true today. In fact it has probably held true ever since most marriages are no longer arranged, and will continue to do so for many years.
Ladder Theory
I'm a good cook. I'm a fantastic eater. - Steven Brust
Unfortunately, I have a LOT of experience with this subject. Here are a few observations:
1) The "bad boy" isn't a leader because he's bad. He has acquired leadership because most people are morons and mistake CHARISMA for intelligence, wisdom, and ability. Charismatic people have the ability to convince others that what they say or do is right. Usually, they are full of sh*t.
2) Nice guys aren't exciting. The bad boys are always the life of the party because they are doing things that would normally be considered inappropriate in a civilized world.
3) Bad boys take a lot of unnecessary risks thus making them appear rebellious and therefore exciting.
4) Bad boys never get cut down to size or have their ass handed to them in verbal or physical combat. This cements the notion that they are invincible. The earlier this starts, the harder the cement. And by the time they hit their teens, they are completely unaware of the consequences of their behavior. Nobody has come down on them like a ton of bricks when they give the nerd a wedgie. Basically, they are completely self-centered a**holes.
5) Women get all hot for the bad boy because THE WOMEN WANT A CHALLENGE. That being the challenge of taming him. This usually has disastrous results because of #1 and #4. Bad boys will never change because their sense of right and wrong is warped and don't believe they should change.
6) As a corollary to #4, women who go for the bad boy also have a warped sense of right and wrong so they can't be changed by a nice guy either. They get this warped sense of right and wrong from television and Madison Avenue. I offer into evidence the proliferation of TV shows and commercials that portray the husband/boyfriend as an inept moron and the wife/girlfriend as a total rocket-scientist. Women in the last 30 years or so have come to believe this. Men also seem to believe it in that they have become chickified.
If people were logical, women would seek out the intelligent capable males as they would be able to think and do their way out of life's problems as opposed to the "THAG SMASH!" way of doing it.
But of course, when have women EVER behaved logically.
Brian: You wanna know how to get women? There's only one place to observe. (They go outside and look over at Quagmire's house.) Just watch.
Woman: (runs out the front door) I am not doing that, Glenn!
Quagmire: Come on, beautiful! Keep an open mind!
Woman: You're a sick man!
Quagmire: (yells) Hey, keep it down! I don't want my neighbors seeing a fat, old, dirty whore screaming at me on my front lawn.
Woman: Whore?! (pauses, then more calmly) Well, maybe I should come inside.
Quagmire: Well, maybe you should.
Stewie: What the deuce? Why the hell would she respond so positively to such a negative comment? Unless... Brian, do women like it when you treat them like crap?
Brian: Well I don't know if you wanna be so black and white about it -
Stewie: Wait, that's it! Women respond when you treat them like crap!
Yes, that is how to get the girl. And that is how to be the "bad boy" she'd fall for. Hence the irony of it all.
Of course, there is always a slight chance you *really* aren't her type. This is the risk bad boy's are more willing to take, or overcome with violence.
A lot of guys are scared to make the first move. They make it so damn formal that she's not turned on in the slightest. Hint: you are NOT raping her nor otherwise sexually assaulting her simply by touching her. Give her a pat on the head and say "good puppy". If she seems offended, then you never had a shot at her anyway.
I suggest you read Slashdot
Scientific proof that women love bastards.
-- I Am Not A Terrorist.
Girls have an unbelievably high tolerance for ugly, poor, rude men. This board is loaded with proof of it.
On the other had, they hate guys that make excuses, and that is often what a lot of people with these traits do.
And to state the obvious, money is attractive, as many geeks find out later in their lives when all of a sudden they're hot stuff. In high school bad boys get an unfair advantage though, and to think there are some sacrificing college for high school dating is sad, if you put it in perspective. College girls are much more fun :)
The study examines the correlation between the "dark" personality traits and number of sex partners.
What a complete waste of money.
The study only confirms the definitions of the terms. Call it circular reasoning if you like. (All definitions involve circular reasoning.)
On one hand, some people out there value monogamy and wait for marriage. On the other hand, others try to get as many as they can. Naturally, the one trying for more partners will tend to have more partners.
This study also brings up the question of how to count the number of partners. Do they just rely on the guy's word? How many guys stretched the truth?
Can I have a million dollars to study whether politicians with stronger ethics receive less bribes?
The traits mentioned at the "dark triad" also tend to fade with youth, not always, of course, but I'd say more often than not.
When I was young, I drank, smoked pot, drove fast, got in fights, and yes, got lots of girls, would sleep with a friends girl friend, etc. 25 years later, I have a wife, kids, home, etc. I'm different, I out grew those traits.
I suspect that the part they seem to be missing is that those traits are needed to buck the establishment and make your way in the world when you are starting out. As you become successful, those traits become less effective and their expense becomes too high.
Wow, that's pretty insightful I'd say. Your notes will serve you well. The only thing that REALLY sticks out to me is #1, and to that I would add that if the girl is COMMONLY critical, don't just reply with a *shrug* but reply with an equal (or maybe even slightly more stinging, but don't go too harsh) criticism. This will serve a couple of possible purposes; it can help you dispose of a bad relationship, it can spark a sexual relationship with someone who likes confrontation (don't get emotionally attached though, they are destroyers), or it can hurt the feelings of a nice but insecure girl. That last bit is the part that MOST nice-guys want to avoid, but what they don't figure is that this 'nice' girl is (just as thoughtlessly) using YOU as an emotional crutch (at your expense), a situation any truly 'nice' girl would find unacceptable once they realize it is happening.
#8 is good, but can be a pitfall back into 'good friend' territory, keep it sensual and exciting.
Finally, be careful with #11. It's not as universal as the others, and though good advice to keep in mind, should not be considered with the weight of your other (excellent) notes. At least, unless you're talking about serious hard-to-negate commitments like moving in together or getting engaged, then you should be wary until you KNOW things are right. Things like sharing apartment keys or even petsitting for a week (as long as you're not just being used) and even stuff like carpooling agreements (when possible) can be perfectly acceptable commitments, with not much chance of ruining things. A little stability can help things along, as long as stability doesn't turn in to stagnation.
This is all just my opinion on it, but you seem to have things figured out pretty well.
Alot of people are acting as if men don't look for "bad girls". And what about the geek girls? The "nice" girls? Is it easy to find a compatible guy? Not necessarily. From my experience, it's just as difficult for a girl to find a guys because everyone assumes shes taken (especially if she's "geeky" or "one of the guys".) I've met so many guys who are just as not interesting or boring, or dull. All they care about is having fun and getting in a girl's pants. They only want the bad girls. I want someone who has a sense of humor, geeky, who is intelligent, who can have a good mature arguement or conversation. It ain't easy for either gender.
I'm no casanova but in my experience, making a woman laugh is as close as you can get to making her cum using ordinary conversation. It doesn't matter that much what you look like, if you can do this, you will have her attention, and if you project confidence about yourself (or, really, about just about anything), she will date you. Studies like this are interesting but it's hard for them to tell us much that we don't already know intuitively since there are so many variables to control for, such as sense of humor.
http://www.blowmeuptom.com/
In GOD we trust, all others we monitor.
So he who is without guile is without girl.
Technically, murder-suicide does not violate the golden rule.
"I wonder if it just means that these bad guys are all sleeping with a smaller subset of women"
I believe that it is rather that the subset of men (say, 10% -20%) sleep with 80-ish% of all women. Women will sleep with these guys, but "it doesn't count" because {insert rationalization here}.
I really wish you had signed this instead of posting AC.
Who is John Cabal?
After a bad breakup in high-school shook my confidence pretty badly, I spent the first few years of college rather gunshy. When the cloud passed, I still couldn't seem to find a girlfriend, despite being good-looking, funny, playing in a band, having a car, etc.
I eventually put the question to one of the many girls I had befriended why no-one in our social circle would go out with me, and she was kind enough to answer honestly and with remarkable self-knowledge.
She explained that because I was basically the male equivalent of the girl who never gets asked out because the guys all think she's out of their league. To the young women I knew, she elaborated, getting involved with me would have a high risk of two undesirable outcomes:
A. Getting very seriously involved, married, etc. While that sounds good in principle, it is actually terrifying to most girls in their late teens and early twenties. The dreamy jerks may have been the romantic equivalent of junk-food, but they fact that deep-down she knew it would go nowhere made them safe.
B. Knowing that she wasn't ready for A, the prospect of freaking out and dumping me for no good reason, the pain that would cause both of us, the guilt she would feel, and the potential loss of my presence in her life.
Stunned, I resolved to ask out any woman I thereafter met in whom I was remotely interested right from the get-go, before such a catch-22 had a chance to develop. This led to lots of dates, several female friends whom I had once briefly dated, a few rewarding long-term relationships and eventually (once the women near my age had matured to the point that Option A didn't seem so bad) marriage.
In summary, don't get to know her as a friend and then try to take things into romantic once you're already deeply attached. Ask her out the moment you're interested, and get to know her better over a dinner date.
What a stupid troll of a summary. Psychopathy is only a negative trait from the viewpoint of the other guy. For the psychopath himself (or his mate), it is wonderful. Everyone likes to always dwell on the potential negative results of psychopathy, and never on our many positive traits. We have very little fear, remorse, or self doubt. We can accomplish anything. We can kill someone without hesitation, if the need arises. You cannot threaten or intimidate a psychopath. Instead of fear, or sadness, we feel anger. When it comes down to "fight or flight", we default to "fight," even when outnumbered, outgunned, etc. Psychopaths are typically the ones you see running major corporations, countries, or in other places of power. When civilization collapses, psychopaths will be the ones who take charge, take control, and thrive. A psychopath can be your greatest ally, or your greatest enemy. It's a pity that we are cast in such a negative light, but when it comes down to it, none of us really give a shit about you or your pitiful negative opinion. Opine all you want, but don't step in our way.
Girls want to play games. They're emotional beings, who need some push and pull to feel stable themselves. If you don't fight with your girlfriend at least once a week, she'll leave you eventually.
More than that, "nice" guys make the mistake of trying to get into a serious relationship way too early. Only religious nutcases or the severely codependent girls are looking for that before 25. You have to wait for them to stop "exploring" (aka fucking random dudes/chicks) and for that biological clock to kick in.
Also, remember that it's in this order:
1) Power (money/success/position)
2) Fitness
3) Sense of humor
4) Resemblance to father
If you want to get laid every night, you need to look good, feel good about yourself, be enough of an ass to advertise these thoughts at a bar and make a move. Women go to bars for the same reason you do - to get laid.
Just using these girls here for advertising my point. Oldest marketing trick in the book.
PS: The ones that laugh are the best in bed. The crazy ones are better. Just make sure you use their apartment instead of yours, or get a hotel. Changing your number is more of a headache than spending a hundred bucks.
What would expect the studies to say?
Shouldn't there be a Simpsons reference? Maybe something about that Lisa Nelson Muntz episode?
But it is not an excuse. Women who repeatedly get used in these types of relationships and then go cry to their geek friends deserve no sympathy.
It's simple, Good boys are committed and monogamous. Bad boys keep trawling for quantity over quality, often winding up with other dregs of society. I have a gem from my first and only marriage.
Bad boys are the ones in the who's the daddy daytime TV paternity games where the bad girls and bad boys try to figure out who pays for which kid.
In short, bad boys engage in bad behavior.
The truth shall set you free!
"Only a real, responsible relationship with a woman who wants to be true partners will give you what you need as a human."
And what, pray tell, is THAT? What do I NEED that I can't supply myself? Roof/Food are covered by my decent employment - better off than many 2-income couples. I know how to cook, clean, and most everything else.
I'm GUESSING that you mean true companionship - and if so, no thanks, I don't need it. Too often I get the "Why aren't you married yet?" or "Why no kids?" spiels from the divorced and/or burdened folk.
Ok, some of my dear friends WANT exactly that - one can't wait to start a family up. Not me.
And it isn't like homo-sapiens is a genetically monogamous critter. Alpha-males SHOULD get more women - and simultaneously.
Please - tell me what it is that a woman can give me as a human that I need?
PS -- if any women are reading this: I think you're a piece of shit. Don't i look handsome tonight. Let's go skydiving! oh, there's an opening in my harem - the "application" doesn't take long to fill out.
A lot of "bad girls" get the boys too. But, the difference is, 99% of the time, after we are done with them for the night, we're done with them. The "bad boy/good girl" problem is that the girls think they can change the bad boy. Buzzzzzzzzzz ain't gonna happen.
Although it's common to blame a victim that doesn't mean that it's acceptable.
Two years ago my teenage daughter was murdered by her ex-boyfriend. She felt that she could "help him" and, like many an eighteen year-old, thought she was immune from dating violence.
Rather than blaming victims why don't we instead focus on the "bad boys" (or "bad girls") that exhibit this narcissistic behavior? Why don't we hold them accountable for their actions? Our society has forgotten the value of Accountability (with a capital "A") and it's time for that to change.
It may be comforting to believe that these victims "should know better" or "got what they deserved" because it gives us the false illusion that this is a situation that we (and our loved ones) would never find ourselves in, but that is cold comfort indeed when it happens to you or yours.
Instead of ranting online or to your buddies over a few beers actually do something to affect positive change. Although you may feel that you're making a difference by sharing your thoughts on Slashdot or via your blog, remember what Edward R. Murrow said:
Get out into the community and help. There are many organizations (including mine) that are trying to make a difference and would love to have some help.
JAGga.me ----> Producing video games addressing emotional health and wellness issues affecting teens.
FUCK YOOOOUUUUUU I WAS DOING SO GOOD
Filter error: Don't use so many caps. It's like YELLING.
is to collect data on the cluelessness of nerds.
The responses to this have been unbelievable. "... wasting your best fucking years ...", " ... its her fault...", "... she wants someone like you...". 'Get a grip' would seem like an appropriate response, but it seems like many of you have been gripping a little too much.
And for the logic impaired:
I am a bad guy, thus I have sex with lots of women.
does not imply that
I never have sex, thus I am a good guy.
The misogynistic rants disguised as 'poor me, I am too smart to be mean to women' would be frightening they weren't impotent whining.
Widesweeping generalizations:
1. Almost everyone enjoys sex.
2. Almost everyone has fantasies about who they want to have sex with.
3. Some people realize their fantasies.
If you want to be included in #3, do something about it. Probably involves burning the porn collection and actually learning how to be interesting to someone other than 'old lefty'; but it could be worth the effort.
And, for the record, some of the 'bad guys' stats are skewed because they would fuck a snake if nothing else were available. A similar study of 'bad girls' would show the same bias.
...just because "bad boys" get more women doesn't mean that all (or most) women like bad boys. I know plenty of girls who prefer good guys. And every good guy I know who puts in a little effort dips their wick plenty. It's probably true that good guys tend towards longer term relationships, and thus they have fewer different girls, but who cares? Personally I find sex improves with familiarity.
This article is just more of the contest mentality that makes most people feel crappy about themselves. There's a lot of good people out there, more than enough for everyone. Be good, be yourself, be assertive with your attraction. Assume until you're told otherwise that the girl wants you too. Don't worry about what others think of your sex life; just have a good time with your partner.
Cheers.
Wow, obviously submitter is jealous and can't get women. How the hell did this story make it onto the /. front page?!?
emotionally they are dating you, they just happen to be fucking someone else.
.......... that BITCH! WHY I AUGHTA!
30 years and 6 times per day.
Heh. When I was a kid, I was weak and sickly. I was allergic to everything imaginable, my teeth rotted in my mouth, my heart had a tendency to skip beats, etc. etc. As years go by, the people around me are past their physical prime, and are starting to pick up first signs of aging; while I, who used to be the weakest of the lot, am simply getting stronger and healthier each year, having shed those allergies and other problems along the way.
Choke on that, youth cult :q.
Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.
Depends on what YOU'RE looking for in a long term relationship. Do you want to be with a woman in a long term relationship who is so stupid that she goes after "bad boys", or someone you are not? Or do you want a woman with a real brain on her shoulders who is looking for someone special to share the rest of her life with? I mean, just think of the depth of a relationship between an agressive man and a woman who is looking for her "daddy". Wow! Sounds like they must have a real deep, loving relationship with lots of meaning! I'm envious....
LOVING THAT LOL!!! Actually linked to it from Facebook.
Scientific studies have shown that people almost always think the results of scientific studies are obvious, but are terrible at predicting those same results without being told first.
(Obviously.)
must... stay... awake...
I know some nice guys who had lasting, happy relationships, but often enough it was the jerks that lasted longer, because the girls felt some sort of weird responsibility to them.
A lot of nice guys go from 0 to doormat in about 60 seconds. At first the woman will be impressed, but the demands will ramp up in a twisted game of "how far can I go, how much can I get." Yes, the guy might be getting laid, but he'll also be getting treated like crap otherwise. Sometimes the sex lets the relationship last longer that it otherwise would without, but in the end the guy finally either gets dump, or manages to get the hell out.
So yeah, while some of those nice guys might settle down, other just settle, and many end up going through the continual dating circus just as much as the not-so-nice guys. In fact, these guys end up just as jaded as the women, though often enough they pick up enough skills to get laid etc.
For myself, I'd say I qualify as one of those guys. A lot of women these days comment at how nice I still am, but I've learned to avoid a lot of dating situations that have the potential to turn ugly. Of course, in some cases they might have turned out well, but a little healthy dating paranoia is the consequence of a string of really f***'ed up relationships. In the end I tend to have a lot of close female friends, but I'm not willing to let it go beyond that.
If you've still managed to keep enough of those "nice guy" characteristics and want to meet a nice girl, you'll may have to check your criteria. I see a bunch of suggestions about dating Asian women. Partly these are true, but don't expect everything to be "perfect", and keep in mind that "asian" is a pretty damn broad brush (there's Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Vietnamese, Thai, and many others that may differ greatly in culture and expectations). I've also had a tendency to find that big-city girls in that aspect will start trashing you fairly early on.
My current girlfriend is asian (and specifically Chinese), but she's also older than me and a whole lot more mature than a lot of girls I dated. She's had crap relationships, I've had crap relationships, and we've both a little wary but otherwise getting along fabulously. I think the most amusing arguments we've had are about who will clean the dishes (and we've both volunteering).
So yeah, a nice guy can get a good girl, but if you're trying to bed the high-school cheerleader then maybe it's not just the girls that have skewed criteria for dating, hmmm.
Okay, some of them are obvious, but "feynman"?
Well not quite, but a bimbo will probably have as many sexual partners as any badboy, which will probably be more than the general population. Personality that looks for multiple partners and all that jazz.
Sorry, maybe it's 'cause I'm a girl, but I don't get what this is on slashdot, aside from why some of it's readers are not getting laid-which really, I know plenty of nerds who outrank the "badboys" in the "traid of bad behaviors" who still can't get laid.
I'm also curious about the correlational chain here-are these guys just more confident in themselves and therefore just more likely to ask the girl out? A guy can be fabulous, but if he never hits on the girl how the hell is she supposed to know he's interested?
open source modern art: laser taggi
If these traits help you be more successful, than by what criteria are they "bad" or "dark"?
Saying someone has risk taking behavior is just another way of saying they are brave. Cowardice is not a virtue.
Saying someone is narcissistic is just a way of saying they have a healthy sense of self worth.
You can take good traits, and rename them as something bad all day long; however, these are merely the attitudes of someone who is lacking, trying to make up for it by pretending that what they lack is a bad thing.
The most legitimate criteria for judging behavior is how successful it makes someone. A moral system that upholds those who fail as shining ideals is problematic.
Consider, what if we lived in a society where the *dumbest* people were seen as the most virtuous and best. Intelligence of an individual in modern society is clearly necessary for both that individual and society to survive and thrive. Yet, the intelligent could be seen as somehow evil because their existence is problematic to those who are dumb, as they are easily able to acquire more money and resources than some people might feel is their "fair share."
Similarly those with assertive personalities and at least some exploitative behavior are sometimes resented because they are able to obtain more success than seems "fair." However, these traits are clearly necessary in some degree both to the individual and society. If people can't take what they want and takes risks, they can't strive to achieve greatness, and will merely wallow in mediocrity. Nor can someone without an assertive personality defend himself properly.
What would society be like if everyone was polite and courteous all the time and never took more than an equal share? It wouldn't be life at all. Such behavior is contrary to the behavior of all living things, contrary to evolution. Living things that do not compete would merely degrade over time. Without individuals with exploitative behavior there would be no one to remove the weak members of the gene pool. Without predators to weed out the sickly and weak, the prey themselves will suffer in the long run.
The articles assertion that these personality traits are evolutionarily beneficial, is clearly true. What is false and self contradictory is the suggestion that these personality traits are somehow bad or "evil."
Couldn't the "bad boys" simply be choosing to have more mates? Of course they are! It's the nice guys who generally want to be monogomous, settle down, have a family and all that. Naturally the "bad boys" who don't care about monogomy are going to be the ones who bounce from mate to mate. And another new study has found that men who like ham sandwiches tend to eat more ham than the average guy.
I think this discussion is incomplete without mentioning This Article on Myth and Truths about Women. ............
No Go help yourself by reading it .
Whats the point of doing expensive research [with TAx Dollar] to re confirm which we all know since
Two words:
Stamina.
Multiples.
Both of which I could manage when I was 18 (six years ago) that are now a distant memory.
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it! --Longbottle
Most nice guys are used as intellectual whores. Basically this means that whenever a girl gets in an argument with their boyfriend, they will go complain to their intellectual whore, who thinks by listening to her whine will get him in bed with her, when he is sadly mistaken. "An Intellectual Whore is a man who a woman keeps around for intellectual purposes. She is uninterested in him sexually and considers him a friend. He probably wants to sleep with her, so he pretends to be her friend in the hope of one day getting sex." Link Here, it appears to be down at the moment.
Guys, you owe it to yourself to check out http://www.dont-marry.com/ Whatever happens, don't get married. Ever. It's just fsckin misery after a couple years, at best.
"Bad boys" is a term that is impossible to quantify. Also, if you just define "bad boys" as people who will do anything to "get" a girl (I presume this means they have sex with them once, then the relationship is terminated) then I would say yes, but so what. A "bad boy" can "get" a lot more of many things than someone who is genuinely concerned for his fellow human being. The unspoken rules of dating are meant to weed out people who are incompatible, but a "bad boy" will lie to convince his potential mate that he is compatible. Most people choose to respect these rules out of respect for fellow human beings. So another assumption is that "getting" a woman is the primary purpose of all dating, which is not true for many people other than the "bad boys" (stop making me type that stupid term!). Not dealt with: Guys who like guys, or other combinations of non heteronormative relationships. This articile simply trots out an insecurity that many people deal with and sprays it with hormones squeezed from the authors anal glands after pasting on a psudoscientific facade.
Bad guys make more money.
duh, indeed.
It's not about Bad vs Nice (or Evil vs Good).
Even if the nicest guy pretend to be a selfassured and a prosperous, but stays nice and well-mannered same time, it's better combination than being just "bad". Every one need to build own "shield", as "fake me" who they pretend to be. Just "bad boys" do it wrong and goes too deep on this pretending, actually hurting them self in long run.
"Nice guys" usually just trust that someone sees them, but they need to step out of the afraighten state and just being "strong" one... act more like a alpha male, but not being jerk.
Like the saying goes: "It's a nice to be important, but it's important to be a nice"
ARE YOU PEOPLE LISTENING TO YOURSELVES?
Your post is great, actually, but I dont agree it has to do with being nice. I think you just became more confident. Its not a "technique".
Please lets get back to our browser war discussions before the women reading slashdot take notice and decide that we really arent a good idea after all.
You wont get a girlfriend through violence per se, in-fact no really does mean no. But you may impress her through verbal & physical aggressiveness & persistence. In other words, once she starts giving small yeses, your chances of later yeses have increased.
The Christian religion has been and still is the principal enemy of moral progress in the world. -- Bertrand Russell
You are perpetuating the idea that girls do not enjoy sex, and merely perform it as an act to gain emotional support. "Why by the cow" can only be referring to having a meaningful relationship and engaging in sexual activity, where "the milk" refers to emotional support and friendship.
Although I can't say I've had the greatest of success in my own personal relationships, if I've learned anything it's that men and women really aren't so different. Women want a man they can trust and respect. They want attraction, and chemistry. That's what you want too, right?
So, how can she respect you if you have no will of your own? How can she trust you when all you say are the nice things about her, and are never completely honest with yourself, or with her?
The sun is hot, water is wet, and Cowboy Neal is an option in the /. poll.
Homonyms are fun!
You're driving your car, but they're riding their bikes there.
You just got troll'd!
And I can't even bring my self to experiment being bad, because I deebly despise all forms of manipulation and treating people badly. I would even state that talking someone into bed with you is a form of rape (I am a sort of straight-edge fundamentalists as I also despise drinking and drugs while not being religious in any way).
Wow, if you really think that you're even more a loser than you think. And a wuss too. Heh, and look at me, I'm a über douchebag. Yay, being an arsehole is the best, about time you suckers realised!You just got troll'd!
The article says:
and...
Could it be that they were using those exploitative Machiavellian traits against the interviewers to make their sexual escapades sound more prolific than they really were?
-dZ.
Carol vs. Ghost
Damn... this is bad news - as if struggling to be a good, well behaved boy wasn't hard enough as it already is...
-- we turn sound into light...
But it is not an excuse. Women who repeatedly get used in these types of relationships and then go cry to their geek friends deserve no sympathy. They should be smart enough to figure it out.
This study is flawed. You can be a good powerful guy and attract plenty of chicks, celebrities and rich good men attract women.However if you aren't rich, and you aren't powerful, then you can't be boring, and lets face it, good guys are boring.
A lot of women like the excitement of being beat up, cheated on, abused, yelled at, cussed at, and perhaps the sex is better.
The solution, if you are good, prove yourself by making lots of money, because power is all that most women look for in a man. Just ask Trump.
Power is sexy, it always has been, and anyone who has it always attracts the hottest women. It's really the only true way to attract hot chicks.
It has nothing to do with being good or bad. All you need is a great job, a nice car, dress nice, speak properly, of course be polite and use the right words, be a bit mysterious, and you'll attract hot chicks.
It's simple, women are attracted to power. So go get some.
It's a competition for the women, thats why you spent so much time reading all those damn books and going to school, thats why you got your degree and your good job and nice car. You aren't fooling anybody.
You got that right. And your entire post is interesting when compared to the actual article which I don't think many people have read (surprise, surprise). The study concluded that people with certain negative traits had more partners in a given time. Conclusion: They can't or wont keep a relationship going. We can presume that people without these traits are more capable or simply happier being with one person. All your suggestions are about how to find such a person. The "bad boys" in this study are seemingly after casual sex.
The headline is a little less inflammatory when you translate it as "self-centred people are more likely to bounce from partner to partner than to have one particular partner."
You had it right the first time. Bad boys don't make good husbands, they make good one night stands though, and thats what happens most of the time.Besides, if it were your daughter would you let her marry a bad boy?
Mr. Dr. Prof. or something like this.
It helps if you have the money to take her out to nice places and give her the shock and awe treatment.
It helps if you can buy her gifts, and keep her looking pretty.
Basically, the sugar daddies get even more women than the bad boys. The bad boys don't have money, or power, so the only way they have to get a woman is cave man style, they have to trick women into sleeping with them.
It's a lot easier if you can be yourself and have women trying chasing after you than to be the guy who chases them, and the way to have women chase after you is to be smooth and successful.
Just about every smooth and successful type has no problem with women. Meaning, you need a nice job, and you need to know how to talk to women.
But there are different ways to attract women.
Bad boys attract a woman through her reptillian brain, not through her neocortex.
What this means is, women who are attracted to bad boys are not attracted to them for any serious rational reason. Most of these women aren't going to marry the bad boy types or even date them seriously.
Of course if all you want to do is get laid you don't have to be a bad boy, unless you are a dirt poor college student then perhaps.
More than once I've been there to pick up the pieces after some Neanderthal has done his work. Nothing burns like having someone you care about in your arms, in tears, and hearing her say, "I wish I could find someone like you..."
Like me, only an ape. Yeah, I know.
(Bitter? Me?)
There is a difference between being nice and being stupid. That's just stupid.Instead of picking up the pieces from abused women as a strategy to get laid(which is the path to friendship not casual sex), why not just focus exclusively on getting laid and refine your approach so as to minimize wasting your time?
If you just want to get laid you don't have to listen to her whine about all that junk.
If she really do say that isn't that more or less an invite? Have you tried kissing her once she say it? If not the blame is on you my friend.
Why would he want to date girl who dates losers?If she is not rational enough to date good guys, why exactly would you want to date her? She probably doesnt know what she wants yet.
What makes you think she's worth being kissed?
Shouldn't she have picked you in the first place?
By now if he were interested he should have told her.
The simple fact is, she's probably not interested in him sexually. Typically, women who like bad boys have a "bad boy" fetish where they prefer sex with bad boys.
If a guy is too nice perhaps he can kiss her and all, but it doesnt mean they'll be compatible in the bedroom so it wont matter. In the end he will probably end up hurt.
I think it would be a bad move, a stupid move, which at best could lead to them kissing but probably wont lead to anything serious.
If she's sexually attracted to bad boys there is nothing he can do to change this. It's simple, if he can't turn her on, he can't turn her on, it's more of a problem that he can't start her sexual engine even if she loves him emotionally.
Usually when a woman wants to have sex with you she will send the signal, she will make it known.
You just have to learn to read the signals. It has nothing to do with your interest in them and everything to do with their interest in you, you are a product and you are selling the one night stand, you have to convince them to desire and want sex with you, it helps if you look good and are into the same things sexually that they are into, and it helps if you have power because that turns women on in general.
You act like women don't have minds of their own.
First, if a woman is interested in you she wont be complaining about her bf or ex bf's to you, just the fact that she does this is evidence that she doesn't see you in that way.
Now, on the other hand, if she gets nervous around you, or if she flirts with you, then you have a chance.
At their extreme, these traits would be highly detrimental for life in traditional human societies.
Which extreme personality traits aren't bad for society. All definable personality traits have their place in moderation within a healthy, evolving society. The worst of them are the ones that push society forward the fastest.
Neanderthals were probably a bunch of peace-loving emotionally connected hippies, and look what happened to them. Okay, that's speculation...
Why are you letting these clowns ruin our country?
I got my degree because I love the subject. Until I met the girl that became my wife, I had no plans on graduating. I had close to 50 hours in non-essential electives. You only need 8 in that particular group to graduate. I just kept taking classes that interested me.
If I wanted to spend that much effort on purely a money making college experience, I'd have taken business classes. Managers make more than the managed. Or I could have been a lawyer.
Plenty of jobs pay more than code monkey. If money to attract women was my sole object, I chose pretty poorly.
Weaselmancer
rediculous.
By what, three separate women? Britney, Shar Jackson, and some other woman?
He's got money,
Not really. He's got Brittney's money. fame, Fame is a neutral term. One can be famous for either positive or negative qualities. power, Not really. Or at least he doesn't seem to be exercicing it. Most of his own projects have been screw-ups. and the paps love him. The paparazzi love to see people falling on their face, so to speak. The fans of their crap love scandal and the news of who has been arrested, gone into rehab or gotten into a car wreck. As do, let's be honest, a lot of women. Women of a certain class, that is. Like I said before, the Federlines of this world are an excellent litmus test for skank.Have gnu, will travel.
According to the article the reproductive strategy of the "dark triad" males is the shotgun approach (affairs, etc) where others raise their kids. They are successful because of the number of partners.
Thus birth control (used by women, since obviously the dark triad males won't use it) seems to be the ultimate nice guy weapon to prevent the spread of the dark triad genes.
So I guess this means geeks should be promoting birth control... besides abstinence I mean. :)
Complexity Happens
Oh yeah! Thank goodness someone noticed how wide this thread is opening the nerd kimono. Hehehe.
Sorry, popunder. Fucking flash popunder. Blacklisting that site.
Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
I've found marriage to be the only real mistake I've made in my life, and the data supports that. Fortunately with the rise of Web 2.0 and social networking, guys are more able now to get educated about what marriage means for men in the U.S., and consequently there's talk of a "marriage strike" by young men since the early 90s. Which makes sense. Anyway, modern data indicates men are happier if they never marry, and just stay in committed but unmarried relationships. I think women ultimately will be better off too: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/this-britain/women-are-happiest-with-first-love-and-men-with-serial-monogamy-study-finds-577451.html "Men are happiest when they are "serial monogamists" - having a succession of faithful relationships but never getting married, a study published today shows."
Thanks for raising my kids to stupid bastards!
now tell us why voters select candidates with these traits.
Star Trek transporters are just 3d printers.
Not all of us can afford to take 50 non electives!
How about have a life of your own outside of your SO. Nothing makes me run faster than a "needy" male. I wised up after a relationship with a "nice guy" that was clingier than saran wrap.
Listen to the woman once in a while, the world doesn't revolve around you and your job. Even after you've gotten into her pants, it won't kill you to hear what she has to say.
Women can do things for themselves, if we want help, we'll ask for it.
There are times we want to go places with our friends, or alone. We're not plotting your demise, or out looking for someone new. Sometimes we need a little "space". No need to pout about it.
Be yourself, don't try to "impress" women with fabricated adventures, or your vast wisdom of every topic she mentions. I hate the "one up" game men play when I mention something. Or stalk off when my car has more horsepower, or I actually know more about the history of the classic Mustang (Ford) than they do. Face it, you don't know everything, neither do I, but I'll cheerfully admit it and listen and learn.
Not every woman wants to get married and have kids. If she tells you this at the beginning of a relationship, there's a good chance she'll feel the same at the end of it too.
I can't speak for most women, just myself.
I'm female who has been reading Slashdot for ages.. I rarely post as I'm happy to let you boys think we're not here so I can enjoy the usual candour.
I've dumped plenty of hot (physically fit) powerful (successful) men, and alternatively have adored some men to which either short or geeky or hairy could probably be applied. Why? Because these hot powerful guys I've met seemed happy to move immediately into a relationship with me based on shallow criteria (criterion). Looks good + doesn't need their money. Apparently they didn't need to know another thing more about me because of the way they would interrupt me mid sentence to interject with another story about themselves. They must have assumed I had an equivalent list as they always seemed shocked when I declined to see them again. Note to jocks: If your date hasn't said anything for the last thirty minutes, is grinding her teeth and narrowing her eyes at you across the table, then its not going well! And the percent at which your business has grown in the last quarter or how many sets you hit at the gym this morning are not going to get you the girl. ...listening, asking interested questions, and offering anecdotal stories about yourself that demonstrate you are following the conversation or have shared similar experience, maybe will. And this is something that geeky or introverted people are generally much better at.
But!
Often enough I've agreed to a date with a man, that I've not been initially attracted too simply because he had the confidence to ask. Ive then been pleasantly surprised to find him brilliant and charismatic company and the kind of date you don't want to end. It may be because I am a geek too but I really don't think anybody should bother with a date that is not into your intellect and personality.
Arrogant handsome bastard men might get noticed first but that doesn't make them what women are looking for. Women DO love nice men. I'm a nice girl, I want a nice man just with the accent being on 'Man' rather than Nice. Guys you can show that you are assertive without being a jerk. For example, making plans without asking first can show that you are capable of making decisions. "I'm hoping you are free __ and like ___ because I have got ticket/made reservations etc for__." You will still appear considerate because you ARE asking her opinion but do not seem weak because you were waiting for direction from her first. Personally I like it when a guy goes to hold my hand or kiss me without asking first; even if I haven't made up my mind about them, it immediately forces you to consider them in that context.
Puppy dog eyes scare me off because I know from experience how terrible it feels to disappoint someone who has had you on a pedestal. I have given up on a few Nice guys I've liked because they were too scared to make any moves at all... and SURE I can make the moves but I dont want to! It doesnt make me feel feminine (sexy). Note: Even once youre in a relationship, begging for sex is ALWAYS pathetic. If you want sex, make time for sex then make her want it.
So be your nice guy self AND do these things: Speak up. Make decisions. Take risks. Leave the Bad boys with the stupid chicks.
You clearly haven't known any bad boys, or watched how they operate. Most of them do not get girls by pretending to be nice, stable guys. In fact, most nice guys will get a lot more attention from girls if they pretend to be unstable and not-so-nice.
Girls are often attracted to that element of danger, for the same reason people like to ride roller coasters.
Additionally, those girls who really do believe that they want a nice guy frequently delude themselves into thinking that their love will be enough to turn the bad boy, who excites them, into a nice guy, who will be faithful and caring.
Under capitalism man exploits man. Under communism it's the other way around.