Slashdot Mirror
Linux Needs More Haters
Corrupt brings us a ZDNet column by Jeremy Allison, who says Linux could benefit from more "tough love" in order to improve its functionality and popularity. Excerpting:
"As Elie Wiesel said, 'the opposite of love is not hate, it is indifference.' LinuxHater really doesn't hate Linux, despite the name. No one takes that much time to point out flaws in a product that they completely loathe and despise. The complaints are really cries of frustration with a system that just doesn't quite do what is desired (albeit well disguised). A friend pointed out to me that the best way to parse LinuxHaters blog is to treat it as a series of bug reports. A perl script could probably parse out the useful information from them and log them as technical bug reports to the projects LinuxHater is writing about. Deep down, I believe LinuxHater really loves Linux, and wants it to succeed."
They could take off the critic's hat and -fix- the things that they complain about.
I mean, isn't that one of the things that makes OSS great?
If firefighters fight fire, and crimefighters fight crime, what do freedom fighters fight? - George Carlin
Slashdotters must all be MS shareholders and Vista early adopters!
Well i use Mandriva linux for 10 years now and i love it. I would love that the rest of the world would be as lovely and cooperative as the linux community that's for sure.
...but has to use it for some reason. If I were him, with all this 'let's listen to our haters' strategy, I would start suggesting "improvements" that would kill linux once and forever.
Seriously, there are people who love and hate thing for no rational reason. Of course you have people with ideological differences. Throw in some people who have based their entire career around MS products for example and are threatened by Linux as it could undermine their livelihood. Then they are certain people who might throw chairs at you.
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
I H8 LINOOKS LOL!1ONE!!
I "hate Linux", to the extent that I use it as little and as infrequently as possible. I certainly don't like it enough to want to spend time, that I could otherwise spend on real life, telling people why I don't like it!
I hate Linux ...OK, you got me, I'm just kidding.
RTFA. "He or she is extremely knowledgeable and able to go into the details of every problem, sometimes as far as analyzing the underlying code and pointing out the problems"
For a person who spends his time getting first posts on Slashdot, they might as well be.
I hate printers.
LinuxHater's blog is aweseome, and I say this as someone who deeply loves Linux and GNU and all that is based on them. His criticisms are very well thought-out, not just stupid name calling, but clear, effective, technical, and explicit complaints about everything that is wrong with free software. He coats it with sardonic and bitter vitriol, yet beneath that tough exterior, there are the complaints of someone who has evidently spent a lot of time poking around the system, down to its gritty internals, and has found everything that could be improved about it.
Even Miguel de Icaza loves LinuxHater's blog. I recommend that any free software enthusiast spend some good time reading the blog. You'll laugh, you'll cry, you'll wonder how you can make it all better.
People who make up problems to write malicious articles will probably write equally malicious code and give bogus advice. Let's not forget how M$ sold the Lotus team development tools that M$ developers hated and ignored. Given the size of the free software community, this kind of malice will never be a serious problem but all code needs to be carefully evaluated.
FUCK LINUX!
/me runs
I'm a rabbit startled by the headlights of life
The only thing wrong with linux is lack of availability of 3rd party shrink-wrap type applications and games. I would love to give up XP, but linux can't run the video editing software that I need and games that I want.
You can have my SIG when you pry it from my cold, dead hands.
One of the reasons I like Linux so much is that there's so little to complain about. Everything just works. Occasionally there's a driver hunt or compatibility issue, getting a scanner to work, but overall, once it's set up and working, smooth sailing.
That was the way Windows used to be. Everything would install and just work, while the Linux tinkerers spent hours chasing down compatibility issues and combing through HCL's. But Vista changed that perception and the very time Linux was making progress in big leaps.
Five years ago if you wanted a smooth install and minimal fuss you picked Windows 2000 or XP. Now you install Ubuntu or buy a Mac. The reality is probably a little more complex but the perception certainly has changed.
That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
A bad RPM install killed my mom because the cheap company was using Red Hat on her kidney dialysis machine
Use the app from this previous article to scan a few popular Linux-hating blogs' articles and comments and maybe you've got yourself a pro-active user feedback tool. Maybe.
Spelling mistakes, grammatical errors, and stupid comments are intentional.
I think he's right about LinuxHater and right that we should be thankful for that kind of criticism. Pointing out flaws in a more public manner and in a way that makes it accessible to a larger audience can help shape opinion and get the flaws fixed.
Sure, LinuxHater could try to fix the bugs himself but I think that would be a lot less effective than what he's doing right now.
Do i need to say more, Haters :P
I know lots of smart developers who have tried Linux and ported apps to it, just to expand their knowledge of the operating system and learn how to port stuff and to keep their skills up-to-date. But most of them fallback to Windows. The more pragmatic ones switch to OS X because it is just like a Unix OS, but with far greater usability.
At one point I kept a blog of all the troubles I had with using Linux. Most of the items were really simple things that made it very difficult to use. But often even constructive comments were met with disdain, so I gave up. No sense in complaining to a deaf audience.
This all comes back to the zealous Linux pragmatism where truly constructive criticism is turned into that with-us-or-against-us mentality.
Just because an operating system doesn't do everything just the way you want it to doesn't make it defective, or even flawed. Some users just have some stupid ideas. Many times, however, it's these folks who scream the loudest.
http://www.art.net/~hopkins/Don/unix-haters/x-windows/disaster.html
-Don
Take a look and feel free: http://www.PieMenu.com
I don't read that blog, but in general people complain about things that are not really broken, even more I would stop liking Linux as much as I do if it were "fixed" according to their complains.
Frankly I don't know what is to complain about Linux, except for not running Windows programs (if Wine can't handle them) but that's not a complaint about Linux per se, it's a reality external to Linux and no Linux or free software developer can fix that in a easy way, they don't do it because they are lazy or they don't want to fix it, it's just hard work and Wine people are doing an amazing work.
"It is our choices, Harry, that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities." -- Prof. Dumbledore
OS X is the 'tough love' that Linux needs. I use Linux on the server (although I have a rack of Xserves too) and there's a reason I am happy with it there (unlike OS X).
On the desktop? Well I use a Mac. And I don't think I will ever go back (in the interests of fairness this is being posted from my 'Games and things' XP laptop).
I love the fact Linux is dynamic, and open source. I really do. I don't like the fact that it doesn't seem to 'evolve'. The fragementation of WM's, distro's etc. never actually seems to weed things out. What we never end up with is a 'de facto' solution.
People argue that choice is good. I'm sure it is. But the reason that Windows and OS X still beat Linux on the desktop experience is because they are standardised - there just aren't alternatives. And OS X is a better 'desktop Unix', so as a person who wants that, where else am I meant to go? If nothing else KDE 4 would drive me away... yuck.
I did use Linux on the desktop. For several years. I only tried OS X on a whim.
I don't hate Linux, but I don't think I'm alone. Go to a confernce these days (I'm an academic) and I used to see people booting into myriad versions of Linux as they opened their laptops. These people are now in a minority, as the Apple logo is raised in unison at the beginning of any talk.
Fanboy? Maybe.
I don't read your sig, why do you read mine?
I read the article and I thought, "Well, that sounds like a good idea." Too often when anyone mentions ANY of GNU/Linux's shortcomings (which, to be fair, are far less in number than Windows's), they are labelled a troll and are either attacked or ignored.
So what happens? The comments for this story include gems like "Not that much to complain about" and "Linux + GPL what is there not to love."
Legitimately easy-to-use GNU/Linux distributions such as Ubuntu didn't happen because of the GNU/Linux Yes-Men out there. It happened because the people at Canonical listened to complaints from people like GNU/Linux haters and tried to address the issues.
Or for that matter, flip the situation around. It seems that many users on Slashdot love GNU/Linux and hate Windows. If someone wrote an article saying that Microsoft should listen to the issues of Windows haters to help improve their product, wouldn't you think it was a good idea?
Your definition of a 'Linux hater' is someone
who has taken the time to try it & post what
they don't like about it.
Because of what they don't like, they 'hate'
Linux today. Of course, if someone fixed
everything they don't like about Linux and
gave them a 'new Linux' they might not hate it.
But you're confusing things. I can see how
someone could hate Linux today & like Linux
after everything they don't like is fixed.
It's the same with Windows -- simplify it,
improve the scheduler & security model,
make it easy to write GUI apps for, etc.
and I might even like it... but that
doesn't change the fact that I don't
like it much today.
it just chooses its friends wisely.
I mean there are always alternatives, you could even use MacOS. (not windows though)
I do have a bit of an issue with some developments. Some supposedly user friendly Linux installations /etc. To control the config file control process you have to edit certain configuration files in a hard to find location.
think they should also be fool proof. Like certain NAS solutions, or maybe even Ubuntu which I'm using right now. There really are machine generated and machine controlled config files in
People, this is counterintuitive! Call me old fashioned but if I change a config file in /etc I mean it. I don't need some clippy like demon thingy to tell me that I can only edit its own configuration. It should be able to read the darn /etc file if it is that smart. If /etc isn't expressive enough invent something else and don't leave old stuff around.
There you go, got your two minutes of hate now?
Je me souviens.
... be sure to get paid for your complaints about MS Windows. (as opposed to paying them to listen to you).
The only people how can affect the quality of Linux is the distro makers: by including or excluding packages. However, those who feel snubbed can just go and produce their own distro. While that is their right, it doesn't help weed-out the software that is either poorly written, badly designed or is similar to something else (how many CD-burners does one operating system need?). You find that software is propagated by those with time, rathe rthan talent.
If there was some way to inject commercial realities into the linux work - not necessarily by charging/profiting, I feel the quality of the end product would rise, due to the competition and differentiation that would come about. Though how you do this, I have no idea.
politicians are like babies' nappies: they should both be changed regularly and for the same reasons
No one takes that much time to point out flaws in a product that they completely loathe and despise.
:P
Then I guess all the Windows bashers are secret Vista users, including myself
Monstar L
A bug is a broken promise or a lie! You tell me the software will do $foo, but when I try it it doesn't do $foo. If you as a developer are ok with that then you have no honour. If you want to take credit for the stuff that works, you should be man enough to take responsibility for the stuff that's broken.
Typical responses to bug complaints are usually as follows:
1. Fix it yourself.
2.Pay someone to fix it for you.
3.How dare you complain about something you're getting for free.
4.We are all busy fixing more important bugs.
5.Here is a workaround.
6.If you hate Linux so much you should go back to using Micro$oft.
I'd affiliate myself not with the Linux-haters, but with the Linux-indifferent.
How did that old joke go? "It's not true that Linux isn't user-friendly. It's just very selective about who it chooses as friends."
http://www.geoffreylandis.com
Linux lovers should be grateful that anyone bothers to provide free criticism. Commercial vendors spend big bucks on focus sessions to acquire the same information.
One troubling trait exhibited by some Linux devotees is their insistence on responding to any criticism of the software by touting it's free software/open source roots. Frankly, that's little consolation to someone who's pointing out why they're unhappy with the software. Why should the model used to develop and distribute software mollify users when they see inadequacies in that software?
Of course, linked to that is the really annoying challenge to "Just fix it yourself! You've got the source!" That's an absurd claim. It's either premised on a wish to rid the Linux community of anyone who is not a bona fide developer, or it is rooted in a fundamental misunderstanding of what it takes to be a competent developer.
Linux is a great OS and the best desktop distributions have nothing to hide. But, nothing ever gets better when people deliberately turn a blind eye to complaints.
-- Slashdot: When Public Access TV Says "No"
that nobody (outside MS) has that kind of skill wrt windows, at all. And that complaining rarely helps, if ever.
It's better to be the foot on the boot than the face on the pavement. ~~ tkx Kadin2048
If Jeremy is correct, then the author of Linux Haters has chosen what is possibly the least likely route to garnering interest from Linux developers. Which linux developer would consciously choose to read a blog that refers to them as a 'luser' incessantly from paragraph to paragraph.
The 'benchmark' OS he seems to use as the basis of the bulk of his criticisms is OSX, an OS I find really frustrating to use (and I use it fairly often these days). If I were to start an OSX Haters on this basis should I expect the Aqua and XCode authors to read it daily in the interests of improving all the braindead things about both those aspects of OSX? Didn't think so.. Maybe the guy just has a crippling case of Internet Rabies induced by deep boredom and Jeremy's simply being a little generous..
There are, afterall, blogs featuring meticulously prepared images of meals that people hated eating. Perhaps this blog is simply in the same vein; just another masochist whiling away the hours in public.
Must be a slow news day.
This "Linux haters" thing is not even wrong. There haven't been any kernel bugs in Linux worth mentioning for at least since version 2 came out. Watch what Linus Torvalds says, there's no plan for version 3 yet. No need.
What makes Windows and OSX more popular than Linux is the same reason why Java is more popular than Python or Ruby, it's corporate sponsorship. With enough marketing, people will pay more for an inferior product, just compare the Asus eeePC Windows version with the Linux version to see what I mean.
This is important to learn in life. When you reject someone that loves you, then they hate you. As long as they hate you, they still love you.
Once they don't care any more then it's over.
It discovered this all on my own when going through a bad breakup so that part of the comment particularly leapt out from the page to me.
She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
Some of the LinuxHater criticisms are valid, but the biggest ones I see (from a 20 minute reading, mind you) are extremely difficult to address. Lack of hardware drivers (especially for laptops and wireless networking) is still a problem for many people. It just doesn't work to tell the average user to buy Linux supported hardware; if they can't at least try it with what they already own we've lost. OTOH, often this is due to the hardware manufacturers' unwillingness to open the specs. The other biggie I see is overwhelming choice of GUI vs one that Just Works for everything. Again, this is hard because we don't have a boss dictating which DE should be "finished" first, rather we have a lack of consensus from many teams working independently of each other constantly reinventing the wheel.
Don't get me wrong, I still use Linux quite a bit and have a lot of love for it. In fact, I tend to think that if everyone used Linux it would start to rally suck, because then we'd see tons of crappy, 3rd party binary blobs doing god-knows-what and preinstalled crapware from the big PC vendors, just as one can see on practically any windows machine.
So maybe we should ask ourselves, "do we actually want to dominate the desktop market?", rather than "how can we dominate it?".
Caveat Utilitor
Lately it's become popular for Linux users and devs to profess their love and devotion for the Linux Hater. But I don't think they really get it. The author just propagates the same old "grandma can't use it" and "too much choice" and "developers should focus instead on XYZ" crap that you found on usenet years ago.
The message is not simply, "Linux needs to improve," but rather "Linux will never be good enough."
Most experienced Linux users probably have it in them to respond to inane trolls with precision and objectivity, but when a troll with a sense of humor, good writing skills, and some domain experience comes along, everybody cowers and plays along. Hey, the popular guy is here, everybody play cool.
Too many Linux users are caught between their love for straightforwardness and cutting-edge technology on the one hand and their lust for popularity and respect on the other. Linux Hater is not here to make you laugh. He's not secretly using Linux and enjoying it. He's the guy who sold you out for cooler friends in tenth grade, idiots.
Seriously? You must be new here.
It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
You need to learn rethpect for wymen, becauthe mytheth are more than jutht boobth, you inthenthitive clod!
Complaining about problems with Linux and Criticizing Linux, and hating Linux are two different things.
I critisize Linux all the time. I'm very tough and very disciplined even with open source projects. (and yes, many of them could use some lower case D discipline.)
Hating Linux is what happens when you post lies about Linux. Which many people do.
Embrace, extend, then extinguish?
Linux suffers from the same inherent problem that all open source projects does - every time some one hates it they break away from the community and start their own 'distro'. Its so fragmented and confusing developers can't back a winner and consumers just don't care.
How productive - another troll spreading lies and instigating fights. Yeah, that will fix the world. Much more productive than work.
I don't know why I even bother posting anymore. The whole Internet must have taken LSD. Good thing it can't infect the real world.
Population is necessary to avoid extinction. You have to have a large population or your species goes extinct. People who say "Linux should only have one interface." are also saying "People should only be white, with blonde hair and blue eyes."
Linux has plenty of haters... like up in Redmond, and up in every Microsoft shop that feels threatened by Linux.
Seriously, though: there is no point in "hating Linux": Linux is a large collection of independently developed and maintained components. When some people hated Qt, they developed Gtk+. When some people hated Perl, the developed Ruby. When some people hated Sawfish, they developed Metacity. Etc.
That's different from Microsoft: I can hate it as much as I want to, I just can't fix it.
All distros must REQUIRE a graphic sudo dialogue system (a-la osx) in order to distribute a file manager.
File managers are there to manage files, and not just on your own user space. There is nothing more annoying than having to drop to shell level and type furiously to do something which on mac can be done with a few drags and drops.
Most people don't even know how to do that, and all they see is "operation not permitted".
Think about that for a minute... Because there is no option to authenticate (out of the box), joe user is put through the same scenario with his files that you get put through when some company surprises you with a DRM scheme.
VLC FOR MAC IS DYING! IF YOU DEVELOP, PLEASE SAVE IT!!
> As Elie Wiesel said, 'the opposite of love is not hate, it is indifference.'
What nonsense.
Someone tell me the rest is worth reading.
Max.
To paraphrase James Baldwin: I love Linux more than any other operating system in this world, and, exactly for this reason, I insist on the right to criticize her perpetually.
Thats completely false. Not bringing third party development has nothing to do with willingness to spend money. I bought the boxed Quake 4 for Linux.
What the corporate developers are afraid of is casting their software before wolves instead of sheep like Windows users. Linux users are disobedient. They like to tinker. Windows users are blindly obedient. They don't want to risk a beating.
I count myself in the group of developers that used Linux for a few years, then switched back to Windows.
I had and have one PC at home. To run Linux, I set that machine up dual or triple boot. I was running Red Hat for a while until they changed it into Fedora. I worked with Fedora for a while, but they had a bug with dual booting that they would not only not fix, but called it a feature. I got as far as the version of Fedora that had SELinux in it. Someone told me "Debian is better." I had that as a partition for a while. But I like trying out new software development frameworks and that made for incompatible library versions and apt-get didn't help. I mostly kept with the Fedora, fought the SELinux configuration and got it under control. Then the one PC died.
At this point, I had spent huge amounts of time fiddling with Linux and faced more basic problems, like knowing how much money I had in my checking account.
So I went out and got another PC with Windows pre-installed. It came with Quicken, which I already knew how to use. Later, when I really got into digital photography and purchased Adobe Photoshop Elements. It not only seemed more intuitive then GIMP, it also allows you to organize your photos within the program. When I started shooting RAW mode with my DSLR, it handles that quite nicely too. I also got an iPod and started listening to more music than I had in years.
Since I was no longer trying to keep running Linux, it was not a problem.
This is despite the fact that I have spent 25 years developing software and have many years of Unix experience. I might have thought all that time spent becoming familiar would help me at work. Maybe it did a little. My employer had one contract that I worked on which familiarity with Linux played a role. But otherwise, my employer has about 70 employees, no IT department, and as far as I know, no one else who knows Linux. If I were successful in introducing anything there that ran under Linux, guess who would be supporting it? They have me doing this other job that would not go away while the Linux training and support ramped up.
In my regular job, I select hardware to install as part of integrated systems. I may deal with 20 or 30 such devices while traveling to the customer job sites. All of them either have web configuration or require you to install a support program under Windows. If I were to adopt the stance that I would only run Linux on my work laptop and reject equipment that did not support Linux, we would not be able to complete our jobs and would have a hard time explaining to the customer why we could not complete the job. Actually, I would just get fired and they would hire someone who doesn't have a problem running Windows on their work laptop.
So I run a mix of closed and open source applications on Windows and am happier since I gave up depending on Linux. I have all that free time now to pursue other things. If I want to run Linux, I can boot a Knoppix CD. But I don't really do that very much anymore.
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them." -- Albert Einstein
Igor! Just the man I was looking. I have fallen badly from a /. comment and now I need some stitching on the left leg. Seem to be missing a patch of skin off my arm too.
Caesar si viveret, ad remum dareris.
1. Vision. You can't have a bunch of haphazard crap floating around in a bunch of different distros and expect it to be adopted by people who have to have accountability.
2. Marketing. Nobody is going to purchase anything when their is no value associated with it. Linux has no value on the desktop simply because their is nobody to blame when "shits all fucked up". You can't point to MS Tech Support and say "We are waiting on our trouble ticket to be resolved". As much as any C?O HATES to hear those words, they also know that they are the words that ensure they don't get "kicked off the team".
3. Drop the fanboishness. Nobody in an enterprise is going to choose a desktop flavor because some pimplefaced geek says it's better than MS. Lets see, who has an actual track record here? And (this is a biggie for enterprises, especially public ones) Let's see, do we place blame on a corporation who we can sue, or do we place blame on the pimple faced geek that talked me into Red Hat, and has now moved on to another job?
Yeah, that's a big one, the actual ability to place and lay blame. Don't give me the Red Hat crap. Yeah, they provide technical support. They also provide no guarantee that anything will work for anyone. You get that with MS, even if it doesn't mean much.
What Linux needs is marketing, vision and a leader.... And by a leader I mean someone who wasn't just out to say "I can do this, and you can't stop me".
Yeah, this will be an unpopular opinion here. Oh well, truth sometimes hurts.
--Toll_Free
Trolls on trolls. This article is one big stinking flamebait troll.
I'll give fair crits.
Let me say first and foremost, that I prefer booting into Ubuntu and using that as my daily driver. Sometimes I just can't though.
Here is a list of short reasons why:
Skype seems to be faster, and work better in w32. My video gets sent at higher resolution, and I can hear the other party better. Dunno why, this is just the case.
7zip is screwed up in Linux. I installed a wine version, AND a native version, only the wine version will start and it flickers and won't let me select a package to extract. Making it unusable.
Random crashes. I mean, probably as many or more as I get regularly in Windows, with the added inconvenience of ctrl+alt+bckspce not being near as good as ctrl+alt+delete, which brings up a handy task menu for me to clean up (usually).
No two sound things going at once. Sometimes I like to put on mp3s, and THEN go kill people in Urban Terror. This is easy and works perfect in W32, but not in Ubuntu, I just get the mp3s, and NO sound in a game whilst they are playing.
TVtime not recognizing my TV card. Dscaler turns on perfectly in Windows. So does TVtime in Ubuntu, but then the screen is blue and there is no menu for me to figure out what is wrong, either.
Joost. Works in windows, not in Ubuntu. I'm sure partially Joost's fault, but still sad.
Civilization 2. Best/funnest version of the game, will not play in wine even though it's like 10 years old.
I like how Windows arranges it's GUI, start button, quicklaunch, then task list, then systray and clock. Less real estate, all the same functionality, but without a top AND bottom bar.
Zsnes. Does not work in any way shape or form, or under wine.
What Linux gets RIGHT however is it's ability to find and install 99% of my hardware without me hunting for hours for drivers, inclusion of most of the software I prefer (firefox, gimp, pidgin, open office, cd burner), Compiz Fusion (blows every Windows attempt away!), and it's open source nature. There is something good knowing the code to my machine is inspected by lots of eyes, not just one corporation, and it's also good to know that if I was knowledgeable enough, some of those eyes could be mine.
Honestly Linux feels "closer" than it ever did. It just needs to solve a few naggling issues before it can fully dominate the world by desktop. Another way it could do so is by being AHEAD of the curve. It would be nice if there was a superior FOSS Skype killer, since skype is actually deficient in numerous ways, including not being FOSS. Speex is a better speech compression algorithm, so it would seem like we have the tools in hand to beat the current corporate paradigm too, and yet it sadly isn't happening.
I hold very few opinions. I hold information based on observation and fact. If you wish to disagree, please use facts.
I say he doesn't like or dislike linux. He just likes fucking with dogmatic linux users.
(Explanation: many many internet cafe customers at least from my experience here in Athens Greece really want a videophone appliance, and access to some social networking sites - they don't care about the OS. Even more to the point they've learnt just enough by *rote* to talk to their kids - even resizing windows or copying files phases them. Anything other than a clone of the whatever windows messenger is a no no for them).
Observationally it breaks down like this:
Egyptians - mostly yahoo msgr, 6arab.com
Moroccans,Tunisians - mostly windows live
Filipino - yahoo messenger, friendster.
Bulgarians - skype, mIRC
oh , and even if you get past the messenger level, how about font/language support for my friends who speak amharic, sinhala etc?
Good luck with that
Incidentally, one of the driving factors in upgrading Vista to XP (at least in my experience) is that many new first time users are *already* using XP in an internet cafe. (A quick comment here to enlighten the more abstracted slashdotters - the change in Yahoo Messenger 9 moving the webcam button from the toolbar phases about 60-80% of users the first time).
Andy
Back in my day we called them Microsoft zealots ... Start a spiteful blog today and be hailed as the Oedipus of Linux.
My old junker 700MHz Linux box fell to the 'linux curse' where hardware started failing left & right, thus making the OS fail. It happens on every 2ndhand system I install Linux on. So I get a refurbished computer & reinstall linux. Spent over an hour getting the resolutioon BACK to 1024x768 on a Micron monitor. Nothing, NOTHING should ever take that long just to change the desktop resolution. Ubuntu's "desktop resolution" is like a showcase of resolutions you honestly dont want(640x480)
Tbe rest of my time was spent trying to get my account to authenticate in Samba. I have never been so frustrated with one app than Samba. It's just one authentication problem after another.
post comments on slashdot. Claim to be a consultant for a fortune 500 company that was implementing linux. Claim there were problems with the vm subsystem, the resiser fs, and token ring support. Claim that you switched to Windows NT which had better uptime and lower TCO.
gFTP - okay, it kinda works except if you want to delete a large directory. I mean seriously, how difficult is it to solve this bug? And if you (YES YOU!) had coded it, wouldn't you be embarrassed at such a silly bug?
:D
XSane - does it's job I guess, so I'll not be tooooo mean to this. But it is perhaps the ugliest GUI app ever! But hey, don't worry because Gnome scan will be ready soon. Any day now. I can feel it!
Actually, I could quite get into this being unnecessarily horrible to FOSS!
"once its set up and working, smooth sailing" The problem with linux is getting it set up in the first place! I do a lot of work with audio, and spent many years being very productive with OSX. Now that I've switched to linux though, everything's a mish-mash of drivers, config files, codecs, emulation layers, and background processes. I like the idea of having a modular system, but everything's so distributed there's no one way for all the applications to agree on, for instance some look at ~/asound.rc, some just look at /proc/asound/cards (even utilities developed by the alsa project differ in this), and my popular sound card needs to be called at least five different things by different programs (SBLive!, EMU10K1, CT4780, C1, Live!, etc etc etc). Plus I can't just plug in USB devies and have them "just work" like in OSX, so now I have to have a working knowledge of kernel modules, init scripts, etc. I don't mind learning about these things, hell I'm a CS undergrad, but being sentenced to months of headaches before I can hear a peep out of my computer is not my idea of smooth sailing. If I was a professional, I wouldn't think twice about ditching linux just in terms of how much its cost me in extra time.
The other thing that drives me nuts is the almost complete lack of clear documentation for important stuff like how init works, how modules work and where they live, etc, and alsa is especially notorious for this. I'm all for community support, but it seems like the alsa project just threw up a wiki and said "have fun! We've got more important things do than document our project, which is the foundation of linux audio! ta!" People talk about how stable linux is, but when I'm having to edit sensitive init scripts with only vague forum posts to guide me, as an average user frankly I'm more likely to screw something up, so it's always two steps forwards one step back. And JFGI sucks, I do it all the time and it solves maybe 1% of my problems.
Now I'm sure lots of you are going to say "well that's not a problem with linux, that's a problem with alsa/drivers/3rd party apps/etc" so what if I have any problem with linux that's not specifically a bug in the kernel then the whole operating system is blameless? The problem is the whole platform! Where am I now? After 4 years of linux, sometimes some of my sound apps make sound if they feel like it (and not my favorite one, pd). Open source audio software is of superb quality these days, but if my platform won't let me run it without years of brutal hazing, why should I bother? In my case, because its free and I'm a loser with time on my hands. And gaah now it won't even let me separate paragraphs in my post gaaahhhh!
(a) VOIP, (b) 7zip, (c) random crashing, (d) sound from multiple internal sources, (e) TV Card, (f) Joost, (g) Civ II, (h) Desktop Layout, (i) ZsNES
(a) I agree that having an Open Source VOIP program that runs wonderfully would be a great addition for Linux. Fortunately, Linux on Mobile Devices is a very strong market right now, so in 2 or 3 years this product will likely become a reality.
(b) You can't open zipfiles? I don't understand this gripe. Maybe you could elaborate on *what* is specifically broken?
(c) I agree! I see a crash when I launch a program (such as Pidgin or Firefox) while the "New updates" notification system message is popped up. It is frustrating and the OS (Ubuntu 7.10) thrashes so badly that I am forced to reboot.
(d) I agree that this would be annoying, but has never been a problem for me so I don't share your pain.
(e) Again, not my cup of tea. It would be good to make it work, but this isn't important for me.
(f) Joost is a product I have never heard of. What does it do? Maybe there is a comparable Linux tool that accomplishes the same thing...
(g) Hell, FreeCiv (the open source version of Civilization) runs like shit on my computer.
(h) I disagree that Windows layout is better. I like having the top and the bottom. The ability to easily switch between different virtual desktops is a big plus that I don't think Windows has figured out yet. And in Windows, I typically have to double the size of the bar at the bottom of the screen to usefully click around from Window to Window in a meaningful way anyway.
(i) Also, not important to me to emulate SNES games.
And my own gripe... I tried downloading HDV video from a Sony HDR-HC3 video camera the other day. I have a Dell Inspiron 6400 with a built in Firewire/1394 interface, so this should have been pretty easy. Ultimately, I had to down-covert it to DV in order for Kino to understand it. I believe Cinelerra is capable of capturing HDV, but it ran so massively slowly that it was not usable.
Also, the install of Kino (through the Applications=>Add/Remove menu) required me to INSERT MY Ubuntu 7.10 DISC!!! This means I had to go searching for that disc. How annoying when the files are easily accessible through the internet.
That being said, I LOVE the ability to have fully functional video editing software for FREE. I certainly don't have the cash to do INVEST in the really expensive stuff (Final Cut and Avid... I am looking at you).
Support the 30 Hour Work Week!!!
like Linux. But every bug I submit is downgraded to a WONTFIX. Why, because they don't think it is important enough to fix. The same is true of Firefox. I get tired of Firefox locking up on me, but Mozilla always downgrades my bug reports to WONTFIX, even if they are critical bugs that lock up the system. I submit lockup bugs to the Linux team as well, and they become WONTFIX.
Someone needs to look at the WONTFIX bugs and fix them so LinuxHaters won't be haters, but lovers.
Remember, Slashdot does not have a -1 disagree moderation, and no, troll, flamebait, and overrated are not substitutes.
What those people dont know is that Linux is just windows hacked/rewritten.. Open Office, is Microsoft Office rewritten. Its all Microsoft's stuff, So the Die Hard Linux fans who say Linux is so much more stable then windows, Need to get a clue, after all its just windows with a different written structure. We had to change it a little, so microsoft couldnt come down on us.
" I really do. I don't like the fact that it doesn't seem to 'evolve'." I think this is not quite correct. A small time ago we where all wawed about compiz. Look at that. But it took some knowledge to install. Now in most computers I guess, you put in the ubuntu cd, install it and it boots with compiz-fusion thing enabled! So it is evolving, you just have to want to notice it! I don't hate macs, but I love linux more. It works perfectly for me on the desktop, and on the server.
Newsflash: Very few users know how to code - and even fewer know how to design GOOD code.
Don't want Joe users to complain about your programming/design mistakes? Close the source.
You are so full of shit. Just the other day, 2 days ago, I went about on the adventure of installing Firefox 3 on a friends Mandriva 2007.0. How do you think that went? ./configure ... giant checklist. GTK+ isn't installed. rpm -q, oh it is just not a recent enough version. Oh look more garbage that's not installed or not recent enough. Well let's start with GTK+. ./configure oh look it'll install, but it's missing 5 more dependancies. Interesting, pango appears to be part of GTK glad they didn't include the libraries with the package that uses it. Smart thinking. Well let's search for pango, apparently this bullshit is what I'm doing today. Mandrake 0ther, Pango 1.6.blahblahblah.x586mdk. Well let's roll with that. rpm -U, no pango is needed by these other programs. Awesome rpm doesn't know what Upgrading is. Or at least is pretty sure that the other programs aren't supportive of it. At this point I remember what makes windows so great. This shit. Widows either doesn't have it, or has so much less of it as to be inconsequential. Package management in linux is ass. Well yum might be better, it'd almost have to be better than rpm, and it's why next time I go the alternative route it's going to be BSD.
Too bad us Slashdotters can't embrace, extend, and then extinguish Twitter.
But hate is the opposite of love. Think of it existing on a number line: if love is 7, then hate is -7 and indifference is 0.
Linux, when I say Linux I mean most mainstream Linux distributions not just the kernel, tends to be missing a lot of small details that would making the OS (for desktop use) useful.
I will use myself as an example.
I started using Linux as my primary OS back in last 1994 with Slackware. Where GUI environments noticeably slowed down PC. I moved from DOS with DesqView for multi-tasking to Linux because its ability to multi-task was just what I wanted running a BBS on my own computer I can run the BBS and do my normal computing at the same time. By the time Windows 95 came out I was very familiar with Linux and Windows 95 seemed like a wimpy version of a real OS. As they got good Multi-tasking and such I was already using Linux to do far more advance things, I had hooked up my old 8086 (yes it was an 8086 not an 8088) computer via Serial connection and had a dumb terminal hooked up so Now I could do more at once. Also because my ISP used Linux as well I was able to do remote X windows connection and did remote X over dialup to test apps that I could download via a telnet to the ISP for fast DL and see if it works the way I want if so then I could DL it... All and all so much more then what 95 could handle with it default settings. Even 98 and NT Linux was technically better. But the GUI interfaces were about a generation (2 to 3 years) behind windows but not in terms of appearance but in terms of configuration via the GUI...
I used Linux as my Primary OS up until around the year 2000, where I decided to move to Solaris on a UltraSparc, as I wanted to work with a Real Unix system and expand my knowledge, with Solaris things were a little tougher as most apps by source were made to be compiled on Linux not Solaris so it required more work to get them to work.
Then 2002 I went with Mac OS X as the PowerBook was the best laptop design I saw at the time. Using Mac OS X I realized what I was missing in Linux and Solaris. Jobs that wern't that tough in Linux and Solaris on the Mac were so much easier that I was actually more productive on a Mac (to my surprise as I was originally expecting to use the OS for a month to see if I liked it then install Linux on it). I have always been using Linux as work but mostly on the server over SSH over all I was happy for it as a server and using my Mac as a desktop.
Recently I got a new Job and standard equipment is a Ubuntu Linux Laptop. Now to say not having used Linux seriously as a Desktop for about 6 years, I wasn't impressed.
First we had Ubentu Hardy Herring installed it for the most part worked however the Wireless card wouldn't work with WPA2 connection (other connection worked fine) So I had to downgrade to 7.10 and Wireless worked. Reinstalling 7.10 on the laptop it wouldn't load the first time I had to use Safe Graphics mode (an other minus) then when I installed it it couldn't figure out the max resolution of the screen (and it will not save it properly and haven't had time to find a fix) So I had an LCD with a low resolution leaving poor graphics, and forcing me every time after logging in have to push it up a notch and save just to have it go back after logging out (Even Windows 95 allowed to save the resolution via the GUI) the Wireless while it works it wouldn't save its settings properly having me to put my keys in to get WPA2 Enterprise to work, every time I move the computer.
When getting my graphics setup I needed to use the NVida drivers it felt political motivated to tell me that you are about to install a NON-FREE driver (GASP!) I didn't care I just wanted it to work and have my terminals semi-transparent and not just show my background image but the window in behind (A feature Mac OS Had for years even before it used the video card to do the transparency), My next question is if Ubuntu is designed to be a Desktop OS then why is it default set to minimal effects, where the middle setting would be more affective.
Next I needed to setup a printer (it asked me for my password to do an Sudu... (the first time before I reinstalled it
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
MS has never brought out an OS that had as many haters as Vista. So according to this logic the next version will be great.
Actually from what I have heard, it might indeed be true.
you had to get the disk because it's registered as a package source in synaptic. just remove it from the list of sources and reload the package list.
Any old-time Unix admin has probably read the "Unix Haters Handbook" a couple of times, and knows that the authors of that book, along with its accompanying usenet group, were Unix lovers deep down. Most of the problems in the original hate book where with sed and awk and sh, tools that at the time were worshipped by their users but have since been supplemented/supperceded by perl and newer shells. I'm sure Linux can use a hatebook just like it's grandpa did at its hayday.
--
Go back to Windows or buy a Mac and leave the rest of us the fuck alone. You're all set.
Hey, I finally got my first freak! Took you long enough!
but I don't think anyone ever promised you a goddamn thing.
Hey, I finally got my first freak! Took you long enough!
Hmmmmm... that brings up an interesting possibility. FOSS with bug-fix bounties. I want a bug fixed, I send $5 to an escrow account, tagged to the bug report. Others who see the bug and also want it fixed can add to the pot. Bug is fixed and confirmed, fixer gets the money.
-- I prefer the term "karma escort."
On OS X, it's "Spaces" (at least in Leopard). I should probably turn it off or reduce it to 2, as I don't really use virtual desktops anymore. Mistyped ctrl-arrow keys can get annoying after a while, and Spaces by default puts Finder on top, pulling focus away from other applications.
More on topic, having a devil's advocate is good, but if he can't hold a reasoned discussion, he's much more harm than good. Linux Hater is very good at using straw men, red herrings, ad hominem, and non sequitur. Meaning, he's a juvenile trying to argue.
"We are Microsoft. You shall be assimilated. Competition is futile."
You completely missed his point. He was pointing out that as long as you're connected to the internet, you are going to be at risk and there's nothing the can completely prevent it. He was just pointing out, in a graphic way, what would be necessary to be almost completely safe from viruses - it still doesn't prevent disk/CD/DVD/USB/ etc... born.
OK. I've got karma to burn, but seriously, check out this website first before starting to flame or mod me down - at the very least it's got a funny picture on the page :)
http://www.linuxisforbitches.com/
Seems fairly appropriate given the topic at hand...
Gotta get me one of these!
I found too many things that are just missing the final fit and finish in linux. They are missing "feature completeness." The example that always sticks out in my mind is NFS. V4 is now available in alpha/betaish form, but v2,v3 lacks good kerb support. Apple just put in v2/v3 kerb support... why? They know that someone out there thinks it's important. It's a small group, but it's important. That's necessary... someone needs to d the hard ugly work of cleaning up the old stuff and loving it rather than just moving on to the new cool shiny work...
didnt they get enough of that from sco and m$ the last few years. users dont need to hate linux becouse they ask nicely for a fix and normally someone be it coder or another user helps then get a fix. granted theres some driver issues none can currently fix but many people do try like all those oss wifi drivers. they dont need to sue sue sue to get something in or out of the os of choice.
I notice you don't include examples, because those might show you are a Windows loving retard who just can't accept the fact that Linux works *differently* from what you're used to. Well, too bad. Sometimes, different is better, but that would require the ability to actually be insightful (as opposed to what the swarm of retards here call "insightful").
Anyone who falls back on the old "Linux developers are all zealots" argument is especially full of shit, considering many of us develop for Linux, Mac, and Windows at the same time.
This reminds me of the Unix Hater's Handbook from the 90's. It's available for download.
just remove it from the list of sources and reload the package list.
Specifically, Settings>Repositories, then untick any boxes in the "installable from Cd-ROM/DVD" section (and then reload).
What can I say about that suit that hasn't already been said about Afghanistan? It looks bombed out and depleted. (Playa Hater's Ball)
Any sysadmin worth his salt can tell you that all operating systems suck. Horribly so.
The trick is to find the least sucky OS for the job. Often, this will be a Unix-like operating system like Linu, but that doesn't mean Linux doesn't suck.
...to pay your $699 licensing fee you cock smoking teabaggers!
Just like it did, the last time. CP/M was around for a while, it was powerful (next to the ultra-expensive mainframes and helpless abacus] was to go to businesses that want an edge over the competition and show off the product. Don't tell'em "Windows is wrong" but instead, tell'em "this is what you need".
Hate really doesn't play into it; this is business.
When you mention you work on _retainer_, not on an hourly rate, they look at you funny, and it gives you the reason to explain why: the ultra reliability. All that's missing from Windows is Outlook, Halo, and Quicken. Most companies don't use these, by the way.
Just give it time.
--- For a good time mail uce@ftc.gov
...that everybody who's knocking Vista loves it so much they want to have it's children?
For those who seek perfection there can be no rest on this side of the grave.
...all the old Linux users who tout things like "Linux doesn't need to do that, it works fine as it is" or "Stop trying to make Linux like Windoze" and other such crap would get a life. Linux needs is to push the envelope and adapt to new ideas. It's for everyone, so if someone is having a problem, they can and should resolve that problem, always, period, and there's always a way to do it with software. What it all comes down to is every user deserves to have Linux do what they want and need, the only question is finding others who agree with you and can help get it created. Linux needs change, so it's sad to see visions being bashed.
I'm anxious for the Linux user base to increase, as it means more new ideas can be introduced, and the percentage of users saying "you can't" will be replaced by those saying "how can we".
Promote true freedom - support standards and interoperability.
Except that, the times I've read TLHB, he didn't know what he was talking about and made silly, trivial mistakes which just make the whole blog into a giant troll.
... a good troll. He has plenty of people roped into reading his trolls and he's laughing his ass off behind the scenes.
For example, take a look at his Graphics Hating article where he claims NVidia re-writing large parts of X is a great thing, while in reality it's causing huge headaches for people upgrading to newer versions of X. His rant on distributed version control systems boils down to there being too many.
His upgrade Linux rant was full of strawmen, fallacies, and false dichotomies.
He's a troll
Put identity in the browser.
To me, the biggest problem with Linux is a lack of hardware support. There is a little bit, but not until these companies are finished supporting Windows then Mac. Linux does amazing things considering how much reverse engineering has to go into it. If someone started a company (AMD) that made all the requisite hardware devices to work with the Linux kernel "out of the box" both they and Linux would zoom to be the mainly used computing platform.
linux needs technical guys rather than biz guys
linux brings back what was called 'engineering'
u need 'sysadmins' rather than office clerks to handle ur servers
and....personally
linux is not for newbie....i don't mean linux should not get popular......
but being popular doesn't mean something sacrifices....
u must think why.....'u' singly can't match that something is 'popular'.....not making something popular to be u.....
Much easier to run apt-get install app then to locate download point, download, check for viruses, install, delete useless shortcuts etc. The issue is with many apps once installed, configuring them can be a PITA. Why is IIS easier for a new admin to look after/setup than Apache? the IIS admin mmc snapin. Yast in Suse make this relatively easy, but still not quite as point and click as the IIS interface. There are other "add on" managers, but there should be one provided by default. All the coders love to make the app, then noone wants to write the installer or management tool.
Blogs, the Evercrack of the Linux desktop.
no, Linux needs more developers
I can only add to it that "Unix Haters Handbook", ancient as it is, contained absolutely no information that was in any way useful for improving Unix or Unix-like systems -- the supposed flaws were either nonexistent, or became irrelevant after natural progress of technology.
It's especially easy to see on example of X11. OSX went into NeXT-like direction of replacing X, Windows as usual continued pushing DirectX and made yet another two layers above and below everything, Linux developers continued with Xorg/freedesktop.org direction. Current status: X kept all its advantages even after adding all infrastructure for widgets and high-level UI support, and all the eye candy from OpenGL and Composite, Windows Vista UI improvements seem to be mostly successful at wasting resources and irritating users, OSX added clumsy (tvwm-like at best) multiple desktops in latest version, and has no remote capabilities beyond VNC.
Apparently "over-engineered" X11 design was the right thing to do all along -- only Xaw and Motif really had to be abandoned, but that was not something that cheerful "Unix hater" would tell you from his comfy office on Redmond.
So no, this "criticism" is a worthless waste of time. Real users see real problems, ideology warriors write holy books decrying their enemies supposed deficiencies.
Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
There aren't enough haters to go around. It appears that Microsoft has monopolized yet another market.
Have gnu, will travel.
cheerful "Unix hater" would tell you from his comfy office on Redmond.
Who in this case happens to be Jeremy Allison. You do know he's the guy that spent all this years fighting Microsoft and trying to reverse-engineer their propietary network protocols so you can do apt-get install samba and talk to some of the billion or so Windows machines in the planet. Correct?
twitter here (this is one of his sockpuppets) has decided that he does not "get" what Allison is saying (not difficult to parse out of the article for most of us) and that he must now die at the hands of the fly-by-wire "evangelists" that consider criticism - any criticism - of FOSS to be absolutely unacceptable.
This is why free software is still stuck midway between sucking as much as OS X and Windows. Dissent will not be tolerated!
I think OSX is gaining a lot of ground because the installation of apps is trivial: drag the thing from the disk-image file to your app folder. Of course its almost as easy in ubuntu, where you select from a pre-defined list. But linux definitely needs a common mechanism. RPMs, apt, and yum simply don't hack it.
Wait. You're saying google for a solution, finding a .dmg from wherever on the intertubes (after paying probably $20+), mounting it as a drive, opening your aps folder, opening the .dmg, dragging the ap file into the aps folder, closing the .dmg, unmounting it and trashing it is easier than opening synaptic, typing in general idea of your problem, ticking a box and clicking 'apply' like you do in Synaptic?
Seriously?
Honestly, installing software was one of my biggest beefs with OS X. You have to mount a file as a drive? And installing software is one of my biggest joys with Ubuntu and its variants--it's one of the few things that's substantially better than the competitors.
OS X's way of installing software is far from trivial--it's about two or three times more involved, and unnecessarily confusing than Linux (or rather, Debian) or Windows.
I'm not making any comments about nonDebian installers--things start to fall apart fast.
Who in this case happens to be Jeremy Allison.
What the Hell are you talking about? Jeremy Allison "endorsed" some modern amateurish criticism (and my whole point is that such an "endorsement" is stupid, be it by Jeremy Allison or anyone else).
I am referring to the Unix Haters Handbook, similar text that was published 14 years ago and since then shown itself to be completely worthless for any purpose other than promoting the use of Windows to ignorant people.
Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
Where do I send my complaints? Seriously I am new to Linux, and it is unbelievably frustrating to learn. Very difficult learning curve, and absurd user interface. I know open source is awesome, but I will take Windows any day over Linux, but I will remain using mac os. For people like me who are computer savvy and understand the reasons for user permissions, but are visual learners, being forced to use the terminal is not fun. Linux will not become mainstream until the terminal is eliminated from 99% of usage. The average user should have the option of using the GUI at all times if needed.
Linux hater needs to address the issue that command line does not equate to an elegant desktop OS. Both Gnome and KDE have come a long way but the pomp attitude about command line gets in the way of moving toward a smoother UI. Elegant OS of the future will be about being intuitive and powerful. In other words, a user wont even really need to think about the fact that they are using an OS.
Far too many times I see some young kid fresh out of college touting the merits of Linux. So I let them config a server on their own. More than half the time they never finish the job and some of them end up installing Gnome or KDE to do the job which is quite ironic. Especially when they keep telling me that win 2003 is a hog because of the GUI. I ask them why did you install Gnome of a server. They say, "its easier to config some things through Gnome". What?
I always thought Spaces was poorly implemented...
You have some really serious issues, twitter.
You are just really right on. Thanks man. I do think the toughest part about using Linux (for me) has been the rather abrupt and rude veiled threats I seem to get in IRC, or in forums, or elsewhere.
You can come on and say, "Hey, I can't play a DVD!" or some other such stuff, and next thing you know there is some LEET HAXORZ telling you that you need to try and program a DVD decryptor yourself in PERL or you are some kind of retard.
But I'll admit that for experienced computer people, less informed questions from n00bies can be frustrating. I've been on both side of this coin more times than I'd like to count, and I sympathize with some of the Linux nerds. They just need to take a deep breath, slow down, and link to a good FAQ that solves the problem that is usually VERY common, and has been had by about 20 windows converts probably that very day.
Not an easy thing to try to remember to do, what with the pressures of real life, and the annoying tendencies of Windows converts to blindly run into the same walls over and over again.
I hold very few opinions. I hold information based on observation and fact. If you wish to disagree, please use facts.
I certainly don't have to do any debugging, and that's good cause I wouldn't know how if I did, but after investing the time upfront to learn just a teensy bit of command line tricks including scripting and progamming my fluxbox window manager with a crapload of shortcuts and preset commands, there's no doubt that Linux not only saves me time, the time it saves involves the most boring repetetive tasks, the stuff that I used to hate when I was using Windows.
Of course, I could have learned to do some of this with Windows, but that would have also taken a big upfront investment of time, and windows just doesn't have the CLI applications that Linux has, so the payoff is smaller.
People have a weird idea of how much you need to know to use the command line. I have created a simple script that saved me hours and hours of time just by copying and pasting commands that I didn't understand from a tutorial in an online forum. I don't know that much about scripting either. I just make a list of commands in a text file, make them executable, and go do something else while the computer does the work.
If you have used Linux for any length of time, you will LOVE the Linux Haters blog!!
http://linuxhaters.blogspot.com/
It's simply hilarious and amazing at the same time!
Fav quotes
1. gnutls
"Hey check it, I got this great idea: I want to clone a useful and carefully developed library(openssl) just so that nobody can tell me how to give the authors credit. Who's with me?"
2. KDE4
"Wow. Choice is great. Except none of these are what I want. What does "Use with care" mean? Why is there no "Use memory efficiently (and just work)" option?"
I've been using Linux since 1996 and I endorse this site wholeheartedly!!!
Awesome!
This isn't the problem. The problem is that Linux doesn't have a unified driver model. Drivers frequently break between minor kernel versions and forget about having a new driver work with an older kernel.
This is a real-world problem. I bought a Linux compatible notebook. I very specifically chose hardware that would work with Linux with the minimum of hassle. When Ubuntu proved to be unusable (the wireless driver never worked with a static IP and one day just stopped working altogether), I put CentOS 5.2 on this computer.
The video card finally worked with CentOS; X, unlike the kernel, is pretty stable about their driver API. The sound card doesn't work. I only got the networking card to work by installing a third-party driver; it's an older driver version and has an issue with crashing if I don't send traffic over the wireless interface; I usually have a process ping the gateway router once a second, which causes the problem to not manifest itself.
I wish the core kernel developers would find something more productive to do with their time than constantly changing the kernel-level API and ABI for drivers, breaking drivers and making it nay-to-impossible to backport drivers for new hardware.
This is one area where Windows clearly kicks Linux's ass: Drivers. Drivers for a given version of Windows are pretty much guaranteed to work for at least five years. This laptop has no problem working in Windows XP, a seven-year-old OS; none of this laptop's hardware works with a circa-1991 era Linux kernel (yes, I tried this), since new drivers don't work with older kernels.
Tell that to Microsoft about the Vista launch.
GCHQ Quantum Insert installed. If only our tongues were made of glass, how much more careful we would be when we speak
Actually he isn't 100% Flamebait. Maybe only 85~95% Flamebait.
He goes on to explain (do we know this is a male? I hate to assume) how technically it's a bad thing that Linux gets no viruses: ****You see, a virus needs to make certain assumptions about your platform. Certain libraries existing, with particular ABI's. Certain data being accessible through particular API's. In other words, a common set of core components that are available on every install of your system so that the virus's code can be small and compact and yet infect as many machines as possible. Wait, this sounds familiar. Oh yea, that's right: real software needs that too. Why is there no proprietary software for Linux? because for all practical purposes DEPLOYMENT IS IMPOSSIBLE.**** Here's the link if you want to follow this logic further http://linuxhaters.blogspot.com/2008/06/at-least-we-dont-have-any-viruses.html Wait, if prorietary software is impossible, why does proprietary software exist? He's really repeating the old chest nut about how its' not worth a vendor's while to make rpm and deb packages, but he's worked out a rather convoluted way to use it denigrate the no viruses arguement. He's attacking Linux's strength. It's the Karl Rove treatment. And, again, why does proprietary software for Linux exist if Deployment is impossible? Does the word impossible actually mean anything? When I mentioned in the comments that I had installed the same propietary Linux driver on five different distros, I was asked (by one of his fans) "Yes but how intuitive was it? That's what really matters." So "impossible" has nothing to do with possibility, it has to do with intuitveness? I kept pressing on te fact that words mean something. I really thought I was making points. And I must have been right, because my posts have deleted out. He's a charleton, and his adoring dittohead posters are the ultimate whiners. Typically they have tried Linux and failed with it, and they are too dull to accept it as a learning experience and not adult enough to accept responsibility for their own choices. I'm not as knowledgable as some people, but I don't see a lot of genuine insight in these posts. I see over-abstractions, I see endless straw man arguments, and the posters are downright right morbid in their fascist conviction that an OS with a few percentage points of the desktop share is oppressing them. There have been posts comparing Linux (or its users) to Hitler, and to a Rapist. There are creative slurs like "luser" and "Freetard" used exactly as a skinhead might use more traditional slurs like "faggot" and "nigger". If there is any insight in there, I for one don't need it that much. I don't subscribe to the idea of education through cyberbullying.-- blackbelt_jones
I know lots of smart developers who have tried Linux and ported apps to it, just to expand their knowledge of the operating system and learn how to port stuff and to keep their skills up-to-date. But most of them fallback to Windows. The more pragmatic ones switch to OS X because it is just like a Unix OS, but with far greater usability.
At one point I kept a blog of all the troubles I had with using Linux. Most of the items were really simple things that made it very difficult to use. But often even constructive comments were met with disdain, so I gave up. No sense in complaining to a deaf audience.
This all comes back to the zealous Linux pragmatism where truly constructive criticism is turned into that with-us-or-against-us mentality.
You know, if I may offer you some constructive criticism, you really do sound like a dick. I'm not saying that you are a dick, but I can see where those around you may have been confused.
Here's the way it works: criticism of Linux is pretty much tolerated within the Linux community, not from without. In my favorite Linux Forum, I used to rail against Ubuntu, which happens to be what I'm using right now (turns out, I was wrong) People fiercely disagreed with me (turns out, they were right) but my sincerity was never questioned.
Next month it'll be two years since I switched. If I were to sum up my experience with Linux it would be like this: two years of unbelievable frustration, during which I went back to Windows several times, followed by four years and counting of the most fun I've ever had with my pants on, and the most important and empowering educational experience of my life, probably including my college degree. Every day I'm eight years old, and it's Christmas morning.
How do I convey that experience to another person? Is it better than Windows? Hell, yes! Is it for everyone? Hell, no!
I think the Linux community needs less evangelism and more education. Don't try to convert your parents, or anyone else who isn't curious. Go online, find someone who wants to learn and needs help, and help them.
And don't tell people they don't need the command line. Technically, it's true, but Linux without the command line sucks. It looks and feels like a cheap Windows knockoff. If you don't want to use the command line at all, you're not going to break that glass ceiling, so my best advice is don't bother. Migrating is too much of a hassle not to stop before you get to the good stuff.
The 21st Century command line isn't the unforgiving console of the 1980s. It's a versatile desktop tool. You don't have to give up your GUI, and you don't have to do everything that way.
I'm incredibly frustrated at work seeing certain individuals try to displace our neglected Solaris environment with Linux. I'm the only sane enough person to ask "FOR THE LOVE OF GOD WHY?", and all I get is close-minded Linux feedback loop dribble.
"It's just easier."
What, easier to manage our SAN storage? HA!
Easier to find out what the system is doing? ROFL!
Easier to patch? Wait... WHY? "I only need to reboot when there's a kernel update." ROFLMAO, good luck with that buddy, let me know how that works out on 100+ servers with six months of libraries and other dependancies being swapped out from under the processes using them.
It's not Linux, it's not open source, it's not free software, I don't even feel it's the fault of my coworkers. I think they were sucked in by Linux dogma. Maybe it's just the Linux community that's to blame. Hate is a strong word, but when faced with extreme ignorance it's often the first emotion to appear.
What just really bugs me is all the people claiming Linux is superior to Windows, Solaris, Mac OS X, HPUX, AIX, VMS, Z OS (seriously, start asking Linux users to point out a superior system, or at least weigh in on pros/cons of each and you'll see the problem).
Way to much Linux dogma with little understanding of other systems. Even the "senior" admins I work with can't seem to grasp why an OS might want to enforce a reboot after updates, or not simply overwrite shit.
I do believe Linux makes a wonderful OS for UNIX developers, and those wishing to explore the inner workings of a (desktop) computer, and it should stand out on its own right. This incessant fighting to replace all of X, Y and Z with Linux is really destroying it's credibility; not everyone is as gullible as the young, naive, geeky, Windows user crowd the Linux community tends to feed on.
I really want to agree with you, and just like it for what it is... an honorable community driven effort to develop a free UNIX-like OS. It gets harder and harder to like Linux when it starts getting pushed by people... now it's business, and Linux WILL get some cuts and bruises.