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Towards an Exercise Pill

aztektum among many other readers sent us news that medical researchers have developed two drugs that can build muscle tone in mice without exercise. While such an advance may inspire dreams of a "couch potato pill," the article mostly talks about other medical uses, should the drugs prove safe and effective in humans. The doctor in charge of the research is working with sports authorities to develop a test to detect the drugs in athletes. "Researchers at the Salk Institute in San Diego reported that they had found two drugs that did wonders for the athletic endurance of couch potato mice. One drug, known as Aicar, increased the mice's endurance on a treadmill by 44 percent after just four weeks of treatment. A second drug, GW1516, supercharged the mice to a 75 percent increase in endurance but had to be combined with exercise to have any effect. 'It's a little bit like a free lunch without the calories,' said Dr. Ronald M. Evans, leader of the Salk group."

362 comments

  1. Nerd Decisions... by RandoX · · Score: 4, Funny

    Stand in line for a pill to make me muscular, or stand in line for the new iPhone?

    At least the iPhone won't leave me as soon as I talk.

    1. Re:Nerd Decisions... by Thiez · · Score: 5, Funny

      Take the pill, and then beat up a nerd who bought the new iPhone and steal it.

      Or don't get the new iPhone at all. Who needs that thing?

    2. Re:Nerd Decisions... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      But the iPhone will leave you as soon as it sees a buff gay with a six pack...

    3. Re:Nerd Decisions... by Palshife · · Score: 1

      Me.

      --
      Attention deficit disorder is a complicated issue, spanning several major... HEY LET'S GO RIDE BIKES!
    4. Re:Nerd Decisions... by Crazy+Taco · · Score: 5, Funny

      Or don't get the new iPhone at all. Who needs that thing?

      Agreed. I'm not standing in line for a phone until Microsoft makes one. Then I might, though, because MS products are 1337. Or at least better than their Apple counterparts. Microsoft only needed 2 generations to make a Zune MP3 player that is better and has more features than a 7th generation iPod.

      --
      Beware of bugs in the above code; I have only proved it correct, not tried it.
    5. Re:Nerd Decisions... by omnipresentbob · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Microsoft only needed 2 generations to make a Zune MP3 player that is better and has more features than a 7th generation iPod.

      I thought of marking you insightful. But then I figured responding would be better.

      He's got a point - a Zune is more featured (wireless sharing, bigger screen, built-in FM radio) than the 7th gen iPod, and is cheaper (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16855604016 vs http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16855101072).

      Disclaimer: I have an iPod, and like it (though don't like Apple products, for the most part). Am no Microsoft shill, let alone fanboi.

    6. Re:Nerd Decisions... by johanatan · · Score: 1

      Don't forget the 2nd gen XBOX (360)--it's way better than 3rd gen Sony offering and like 10th gen Nintendo offering.

    7. Re:Nerd Decisions... by robertjw · · Score: 1

      Xbox better than the Wii? No way!

    8. Re:Nerd Decisions... by shicaca · · Score: 0

      Show me a touch screen Zune, and I'll agree. In other (and actually on-topic :P) news, I wonder what the implications would be for a person that has a debilitating disease such as MS and the what-not. Guess I should just RTFA. Meh.

    9. Re:Nerd Decisions... by e03179 · · Score: 1

      It's a well known fact that Apples taste better than Oranges.

      --
      -516
    10. Re:Nerd Decisions... by CrashPoint · · Score: 2

      From where the rest of the world is standing, the iPod is still leaps and bounds better than a Zune. I have NEVER even seen a Zune out in the real world, but I see iPods every day.

      You're implying here that "more popular means better". If that's so, then Windows XP is the best OS, and McDonald's makes the best hamburgers.

    11. Re:Nerd Decisions... by Rival · · Score: 1

      It's a well known fact that Apples taste better than Oranges.

      Clearly you're mistaken.

    12. Re:Nerd Decisions... by Hoi+Polloi · · Score: 1

      Only on Slashdot would someone propose taking a pill to help them get an iPhone instead of wanting to take, say, Viagra.

      --
      It is by the juice of the coffee bean that thoughts acquire speed, the teeth acquire stains. The stains become a warning
    13. Re:Nerd Decisions... by Kajukenbo · · Score: 1

      These are Type-1 fibers.
      Primarily aerobic, not anaeorbic.

      Endurance on a treadmill is not the same as bulking up.

      --
      assertion: a positive statement, usually made without an attempt at furnishing evidence
    14. Re:Nerd Decisions... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You do realize that MS has been selling phones for a few years right? They beat Apple to market by a large margin. See Windows Mobile 1 2 3 4 5 and now 6

    15. Re:Nerd Decisions... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ... no... according to that, He is right.

    16. Re:Nerd Decisions... by SQLGuru · · Score: 1

      The article I read the other day said that it didn't really help those with degenerative muscle diseases. I didn't click this link because I assume there won't be too much new or interesting that I wouldn't get from the comments here.

      Layne

    17. Re:Nerd Decisions... by drkich · · Score: 1

      Have you actually looked at the graph? Apples are higher on the Taste (Y) scale than the Oranges.

    18. Re:Nerd Decisions... by thetoadwarrior · · Score: 1

      Yeah the 2nd gen xbox has profits built in. All 360s die after a short period which makes you buy another. Pure genius!

    19. Re:Nerd Decisions... by thetoadwarrior · · Score: 1

      And it's perfect if you enjoy a os that forgets it's screen calibrations, does display certain jpegs properly as a wallpaper and needs rebooting if you lose your signal for too long.

      I had version 5 on an HTC phone and I'm glad I've ditched it now. I just wish the iphone had some buttons for gaming but you can't have everything. So I've gone back to having a Sony Ericsson phone. It has a decent camera and makes calls. I'm not sure I need much more at the moment though the Nokia N95 is tempting.

    20. Re:Nerd Decisions... by CastrTroy · · Score: 1

      So the trick is to wait until really late in the game, and then copy everybody else, add a few features that most people don't care about, and call yourself superior on the first iteration? This is like MS putting out a car, which is identical to some other car, except with an automatic sunroof, selling it below cost, because they have money to burn, and everybody saying they did it better on their first try.

      --

      Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
    21. Re:Nerd Decisions... by rrkap · · Score: 1

      I'm slightly afraid to know how taking Viagra is going to help you get an iPhone.

      --
      I like my beverages with warning labels!
    22. Re:Nerd Decisions... by mr_mischief · · Score: 1

      Two words: sugar mama.

    23. Re:Nerd Decisions... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      easy points by bashing ms. lame

    24. Re:Nerd Decisions... by adrianwn · · Score: 0

      So steal it and run away?

    25. Re:Nerd Decisions... by Rival · · Score: 1

      Actually, I did look at the graph -- I just mentally transposed the GP's comparison. :-)

      Either way, though, Randall's graph is very peculiar. Lots of lively discussion on that comic's thread. I believe it was the most popular thread on the forum, up to that point.

    26. Re:Nerd Decisions... by neonsignal · · Score: 1

      What's a zune?

    27. Re:Nerd Decisions... by Oktober+Sunset · · Score: 1

      Are you saying McDonald's hamburgers are not the best? Yea right, who am I gunna believe, you or the TV?

    28. Re:Nerd Decisions... by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 1
      --
      (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
    29. Re:Nerd Decisions... by LunaticTippy · · Score: 1

      There were lots of mp3 players before the ipod. Lots of people think the ipod was the first good one.

      It seems like Apple's formula for success was to wait until late in the game, copy everybody else, have actual marketing, and offer an improved interface.

      --
      Man, you really need that seminar!
    30. Re:Nerd Decisions... by MilesAttacca · · Score: 1

      It has more features, but the Zune software is perfectly horrible to try to use. My friend bought a Zune and after it stopped syncing on his computer, we tried it on mine...it worked *once*, after a lot of tweaking, and thenceforth never worked again.

      --
      98% of America's teens drink alcohol, smoke, and have sex. Put this in your sig if you like bagels.
    31. Re:Nerd Decisions... by Bytenik · · Score: 1

      You are right that there is often a strong correlation between popularity and quality. In the case of iPod, I think there generally is a strong correlation. Nothing in this world is black and white though (except iPhones, which are available in black and white).

      Your example of Windows XP is the obvious counter-example. Although it is still much better than Vista in many ways, I don't think it holds its own against Mac OS X.

      I've used Windows since 1988 and switched to a Mac at home last November. I much prefer my Mac now to my PC. Maybe that opinion will change after 20 years using Mac OS. We shall see, but right now it's not looking good for Vista.

      Anyway, that's my opinion. YMMV.

      --

      "Scientists prove we were never here."
      -- Devo

    32. Re:Nerd Decisions... by Bytenik · · Score: 1

      Interesting that speaking obvious truth gets you modded as a Troll.

      --

      "Scientists prove we were never here."
      -- Devo

    33. Re:Nerd Decisions... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You were not speaking "truth", obvious or otherwise. You were claiming your opinion as fact and implying that those who do not share that opinion are living in a "fantasy land". That is trolling, and was deservedly modded as such. And you know it.

  2. But...? by mattpm · · Score: 3, Funny

    How do you get the couch potatoes to the pharmacy in the first place?

    1. Re:But...? by ColdWetDog · · Score: 5, Funny

      How do you get the couch potatoes to the pharmacy in the first place?

      Don't you ever look at your email? The answer should be obvious.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    2. Re:But...? by Devout_IPUite · · Score: 1

      You use the gliding recliners like in Wall-E. Coincidentally, Wall-E totally should have included muscle men who just sat in those couches. I call scientific inaccuracies!

    3. Re:But...? by sm62704 · · Score: 2, Funny

      There's a pharmacy here in Springfield that delivers. Now, how to get the front door open for them to hand it to you is another problem entirely.

      --
      mcgrew's razor: Never attribute to stupidity that which can be explained by greedy self-interest
    4. Re:But...? by geekoid · · Score: 1

      Not much of a problem, just tip well.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    5. Re:But...? by phagstrom · · Score: 1

      Homeshopping Network...'nuff said.

  3. How Much Does the Pill Weigh? by abscissa · · Score: 4, Funny

    How much does the pill weigh? You can damn well bet I am not going to move my hand to pick up more than 8-10 grams.

    1. Re:How Much Does the Pill Weigh? by Mordok-DestroyerOfWo · · Score: 5, Funny

      Good news! It's a suppository.

      --
      "Never let your sense of morals prevent you from doing what is right" - Salvor Hardin
    2. Re:How Much Does the Pill Weigh? by larry+bagina · · Score: 5, Funny

      the pill or the mouse?

      --
      Do you even lift?

      These aren't the 'roids you're looking for.

    3. Re:How Much Does the Pill Weigh? by jbeaupre · · Score: 4, Funny

      It's "Salk Institute" not "Gere Institute"

      --
      The world is made by those who show up for the job.
    4. Re:How Much Does the Pill Weigh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No thread like this is complete without muscle dog

      http://www.bodybuildingblog.co.uk/images/muscle-dog.jpg

    5. Re:How Much Does the Pill Weigh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You can damn well bet I am not going to move my hand to pick up more than 8-10 grams.

      That's what she said

    6. Re:How Much Does the Pill Weigh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Great, I know many people who wouldn't be able to swallow it otherwise.

    7. Re:How Much Does the Pill Weigh? by j4s0n · · Score: 1

      Yes.

    8. Re:How Much Does the Pill Weigh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      Richard Gere? Is that you?

    9. Re:How Much Does the Pill Weigh? by dextromulous · · Score: 2, Funny

      "Before we sit down for the Lord of the Rings marathon, you've all taken your couch potato pills, right?"
      "Yes! Stop asking!"

      --
      There are two types of people in the world: those who divide people into two types and those who don't.
    10. Re:How Much Does the Pill Weigh? by risk+one · · Score: 1

      Richard Gere, is that you?

  4. Better Living Through Chemistry by Jaysyn · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If this drug works as advertised & has no dangerous side effects, why wouldn't *everyone* including athletes take it? I realize that this would be an unfair advantage in the present, but I'm talking about after 20+ years of testing.

    --
    There is a war going on for your mind.
    1. Re:Better Living Through Chemistry by mattpm · · Score: 5, Insightful

      If this drug works as advertised & has no dangerous side effects

      That's a big IF

    2. Re:Better Living Through Chemistry by Jaysyn · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Oh I realize that, too good to be true & so on & so forth..

      --
      There is a war going on for your mind.
    3. Re:Better Living Through Chemistry by Darkness404 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Exactly. Just like the steroid "problem" in baseball, if all the athletes take steroids, then how does one team/player have an advantage over another?

      --
      Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
    4. Re:Better Living Through Chemistry by CogDissident · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I don't know. Maybe because the "Rich And Wealthy" would be the only ones who could afford it, and thus we'd have an upper-class composed of bodybuilder supermen, and a lower class consisting of only the frail.

      Kind of like today, but in reverse.

    5. Re:Better Living Through Chemistry by Igorod · · Score: 0

      Because if you know the drug companies it will probably be expensive as hell, not produced in large numbers, and impossible to come by in non-industrialized nations. Which means that it then becomes considered chemical enhancement, and all must be fair...

    6. Re:Better Living Through Chemistry by Z34107 · · Score: 4, Funny

      Thing is, steroids aren't exactly without side effects. Forcing every MLB player to take steroids isn't a good solution. (But, you still haven't solved your problem - how are you going to force every player to take the same AMOUNT of the required steroids?)

      That said, Bruce Banner did this, like, a million years ago. Changes user color to green. Incompatible with mood stabilizers. Lame.

      --
      DATABASE WOW WOW
    7. Re:Better Living Through Chemistry by Your.Master · · Score: 5, Insightful

      This argument has many forms, and I dislike all of them (although I admit your last line made it funny, and maybe the argument was intended to be subordinate to that).

      If that's the reason we shouldn't have this, then the problem to solve is "poor people can't have this pill", not "rich people can have this pill". The solution to social inequity is not to drag everybody down to the level of the poorest person, it's to build up the little guy. Somebody living well is not a problem; somebody living poorly is a problem.

      Now, if there's a separate reason that we shouldn't have this pill, then we can piss and moan about the rich getting it anyway.

    8. Re:Better Living Through Chemistry by itamihn · · Score: 1

      This is the same as people might have thought of Viagra...

    9. Re:Better Living Through Chemistry by SBacks · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The problem is that it unbalances the game.

      If everyone was taking steroids, you'd have to greatly extend the outfield so as to keep the game from becoming even more of a home run contest than it currently is. And, since steroids don't make you that much faster (as compared to how much further you can hit a ball), outfielders wouldn't be able to cover all that extra room, and batting averages would skyrocket.

      So, yeah, if everyone had steroids, no one has an advantage. But, the game they'd play wouldn't really be baseball any more.

    10. Re:Better Living Through Chemistry by CogDissident · · Score: 1

      It was meant as a joke, but if this pill really is as great as it sounds, they can probably make it 100$ per-day worth of dose, and make a ton more money than its production cost of probably 2$ per day of dose (or less).

    11. Re:Better Living Through Chemistry by sumdumass · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It isn't unlikely that Insurance will pay for it. Many people who go through traumatic injuries have to spend weeks if not years in rehab strengthening muscles and so on.

      I foresee the primary use of this drug as a way to increase strength in elderly people or people with sore joints that can't work out like the rest of us easily or without pain. I also see it being giving after operations or whatever that have medical patients confined to a bed for long periods of time. If this drug was/is "safe", it could mean not only a massive savings in rehab costs but also a dramatic increase in the quality of life for a lot of patients.

      I don't care that some baseball player might use it to skip 20% of their already strenuous workout regime. If it works, it can do, or has the potential to do wonders for many people with medical problems.

    12. Re:Better Living Through Chemistry by Beardo+the+Bearded · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yeah, because there aren't any side effects with Viagra.

      The erections ARE a side effect, one-eye.

      --

      ---
      ECHELON is a government program to find words like bomb, jihad, plutonium, assassinate, and anarchy.
    13. Re:Better Living Through Chemistry by Hatta · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Why is that a problem? New technology creates newer and better games. Let the athletes dope up, and leave stick ball back in the 19th century where it belongs.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    14. Re:Better Living Through Chemistry by notamisfit · · Score: 1

      Between hitter-friendly parks and weak pitching rosters, how much of this hasn't happened already?

      --
      Jesus is coming -- look busy!
    15. Re:Better Living Through Chemistry by notamisfit · · Score: 1

      Who knows? Anabolic steroids go for as little as 50 cents a pill/vial in some places.

      --
      Jesus is coming -- look busy!
    16. Re:Better Living Through Chemistry by Hizonner · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Professional athletes, and elite amateurs, do all kinds of hard training that can damage their bodies, either with immediate injuries or with bone and joint problems that may only show up after they've retired. Should training be banned because of the side effects?

    17. Re:Better Living Through Chemistry by 4D6963 · · Score: 1

      This is the same as people might have thought of Viagra...

      Why would someone healthy without any problem want any such help?

      --
      You just got troll'd!
    18. Re:Better Living Through Chemistry by urcreepyneighbor · · Score: 1

      If this drug works as advertised & has no dangerous side effects, why wouldn't *everyone* including athletes take it?

      Like all the enhancement drugs - performance and cognitive, these will be banned for general consumption and highly regulated.

      You'll need to go thru r&d channels, vet supply, or the import route.

      Not that I know anything about grey market pharma.... No, sir, nothing at all. ;)

      --
      "The fight for freedom has only just begun." - Geert Wilders
    19. Re:Better Living Through Chemistry by Khashishi · · Score: 2, Funny

      Why should we limit enhancement to chemical means? Why not give the pitcher a cybernetic cannon to launch the baseballs?

    20. Re:Better Living Through Chemistry by maxume · · Score: 1

      Only for a couple of decades. Then it is open season.

      Also, other companies can develop compounds that work against the same mechanism.

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    21. Re:Better Living Through Chemistry by rve · · Score: 1

      If this drug works as advertised & has no dangerous side effects, why wouldn't *everyone* including athletes take it?

      And I'm sure they will, providing this drug is untraceable or somehow maskable in doping tests.

    22. Re:Better Living Through Chemistry by sm62704 · · Score: 1

      You must not be a couch potato, or you'd have seen the drug commercials on TV.

      "Use of our new patented super-expensive drug may cause nausia, headache, weight gain or loss, neuralgia, muscle aches, nosebleeds, sudden blindness, heart attack, liver damage, brain damage, sudden loss of stool, headaches, internal bleeding, or sudden death. Talk to your physician about a prescription today!"

      --
      mcgrew's razor: Never attribute to stupidity that which can be explained by greedy self-interest
    23. Re:Better Living Through Chemistry by Sir_Real · · Score: 1

      If this drug works as advertised & has no dangerous side effects, why wouldn't *everyone* including athletes take it? I realize that this would be an unfair advantage in the present, but I'm talking about after 20+ years of testing.

      Athletes wouldn't take it for the same reason they don't use performance enhancers today. It's NOT because they're bad for your health. It's because they work really well and they make competition between people who use them and people who don't, one sided, boring and unfair.

      Some anabolic steroids when taken correctly (a cycle of deca/year for example) are safe (for currently held values of "safe").

      Also, igf and hgh are safe (as long as you're not predisposed to acromegaly).

      Oh, and if you're taking medical advice from people on slashdot.... uhm... I think your safety is already endangered in other, more fundamental ways.

    24. Re:Better Living Through Chemistry by Rogue+Haggis+Landing · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The problem is that it unbalances the game.

      If everyone was taking steroids, you'd have to greatly extend the outfield so as to keep the game from becoming even more of a home run contest than it currently is. And, since steroids don't make you that much faster (as compared to how much further you can hit a ball), outfielders wouldn't be able to cover all that extra room, and batting averages would skyrocket.

      There are a few problems with this. One is that we really don't know that steroids make everyone a much better baseball player. If you look at the list of players who've been suspended you see a lot of names like Matt Lawton and Mike Morse, and not too many stars. Maybe this just means that the stars can afford untraceable stuff, but we don't really know. But really, and this surprises people, there is very little proof that steroids really help a player become better, and, even if we assume they do, little explanation of how they do it. Is it pure strength? An increase in hand-eye coordination? Some people suggest they improve vision. Can they work with all people equally? If not, why, and who benefits most?

      More importantly, baseball can be changed very significantly with fairly small adjustments to the rules that govern it. An adjustment in the height of the pitcher's mound after the 1968 season increased scoring by about a run a game. Juiced balls dramatically increased run scoring for one season in both 1930 and 1987. The Colorado Rockies have radically changed the offensive environment of their ballpark in large part by changing the method in which they store baseballs (they keep them in a humidor now).

      There are all sorts of things that could be done to "deaden" the game. Mandate a minimum thickness of bat handles -- whip-handled bats allow incredibly quick swings. Deaden the ball if you want. Raise the mound. Enforce a larger strike zone. Force batters to stay in the batter's box, and don't let them wear Craig Biggio-style body armor so they have to worry about getting hit if they lunge over the plate. Call it a strike if they get hit over the plate, or if they make no effort to get out of the way. Limit the amount of times a pitcher can throw to first with a runner on, encouraging base stealing and making speedy, athletic players more valuable than lumbering sluggers. Etc., etc.

      Bill James runs through these ideas and more in his Historical Baseball Abstract. As James says, with only small changes in the equipment and rules, baseball has been a game of 10-9 slugfests and of 3-2 bunt and steal games. It could be either one now, but Major League Baseball thinks that home runs bring profits. So that's what we've got.

    25. Re:Better Living Through Chemistry by sm62704 · · Score: 1

      Thing is, steroids aren't exactly without side effects. Forcing every MLB player to take steroids isn't a good solution.

      For the money they're getting? Are you serious? Don't make steroids mandatory, if they can win without drugs, fine.

      What I'd like to know is why performance enhansing drugs are illegal, but performance enhansing surgery (like LASIK, which can give a person with normal eyesight better than 20/20 vision, albeit with the risk of blindness) is perfectly acceptable?

      They say "Babe Ruth did it on hotdogs and beer". How do they know he wasn't coked up? There were no drug tests back then, and cocaine is most certainly a performance enhansing drug for an athelete.

      --
      mcgrew's razor: Never attribute to stupidity that which can be explained by greedy self-interest
    26. Re:Better Living Through Chemistry by Jaysyn · · Score: 1

      I just don't watch TV. Interferes with my reading.

      --
      There is a war going on for your mind.
    27. Re:Better Living Through Chemistry by gad_zuki! · · Score: 1

      Err, because its incredible unhealthy to be abusing steroids.

      From nih:

      Anabolic steroids can lead to early heart attacks, strokes, liver tumors, kidney failure, and serious psychiatric problems. In addition, because steroids are often injected, users who share needles or use nonsterile techniques when they inject steroids are at risk for contracting dangerous infections, such as HIV/AIDS and hepatitis B and C.

    28. Re:Better Living Through Chemistry by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      enhansing

      Are there any spelling-enhancing drugs?

      Seriously though, you know steroids make you sterile, right?

    29. Re:Better Living Through Chemistry by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If this drug works as advertised & has no dangerous side effects, ...

      One of them being impotence...

    30. Re:Better Living Through Chemistry by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      the player who doesn't mid his testes falling off has an advantage over he who does.

    31. Re:Better Living Through Chemistry by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because too much of a good thing is, well, a good thing.

    32. Re:Better Living Through Chemistry by Z34107 · · Score: 1

      What I'd like to know is why performance enhansing drugs are illegal, but performance enhansing surgery (like LASIK, which can give a person with normal eyesight better than 20/20 vision, albeit with the risk of blindness) is perfectly acceptable?

      If it were a sharp-shooting contest, there might be some consternation. But, having better-than-average eyesight doesn't give you the same advantage in sports as, say, being able to rip down Yankee Stadium with your teeth during the half-time show.

      Not that I have any first-hand experience with a muscular physique or a working set of eyes. I'm working with second-hand information here 8.8

      --
      DATABASE WOW WOW
    33. Re:Better Living Through Chemistry by ShadowRangerRIT · · Score: 1

      Read the article. The guy who created the stuff has already developed a test to detect it in urine and offered it to the World Anti-Doping Agency (which develops the tests for the IOC). The stuff isn't even on the market, but the test is public.

      --
      $_ = "wftedskaebjgdpjgidbsmnjgcdwatb"; tr/a-z/oh, turtleneck Phrase Jar!/; print
    34. Re:Better Living Through Chemistry by eredin · · Score: 3, Informative

      FTA, AICAR has been around since at least 1994, and from this article, GW1516 "has a relatively simple chemical structure and can be synthesized easily." It should be relatively inexpensive.

    35. Re:Better Living Through Chemistry by blincoln · · Score: 1

      Why would someone healthy without any problem want any such help?

      Male porn stars (of the straight and gay varieties) use it to make themselves more like the Energizer Rabbit. I imagine other guys do too.

      --
      "...always new atoms but always doing the same dance, remembering what the dance was yesterday." -Richard Feynman
    36. Re:Better Living Through Chemistry by geekoid · · Score: 1

      Having to take a cancer causing agent, along with all the other ill effect, to compete would be the problem.

      Test the winners after each game. If anyone fails the team forfeits the win.
      It would solve itself.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    37. Re:Better Living Through Chemistry by robertjw · · Score: 1

      What I'd like to know is why performance enhansing drugs are illegal, but performance enhansing surgery (like LASIK, which can give a person with normal eyesight better than 20/20 vision, albeit with the risk of blindness) is perfectly acceptable?

      Let's take it a step further than that. Why is it if a body produces more testosterone naturally it's OK, but if a steroid is used it's wrong? Why should one athlete benefit just because he is younger and has better genetics?

      Finally, let's not forget that steroid side effects are overexaggerated and understudied.

    38. Re:Better Living Through Chemistry by edcheevy · · Score: 1

      With the recent studies that point to lower metabolism and calorie restriction as possible keys to longer living, a pill like this that seems to boost metabolism or work your cells for you might end up decreasing your lifespan. That might be a reason not to take it even if it doesn't have short-term side effects!

      Of course, I'm far from being an expert on this stuff, so maybe it will work magically!

    39. Re:Better Living Through Chemistry by phly1x · · Score: 0

      Should training be banned because of the side effects?

      yes. I will have 30 hours/week of more time to make fun of you.

    40. Re:Better Living Through Chemistry by meeya · · Score: 0

      dude I won't need a phill after 20 + years.I will be pretty old by then

    41. Re:Better Living Through Chemistry by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Call it a strike if they get hit over the plate

      I believe that is already the rule, that if you get hit when the ball is in the strike zone, it is a strike.

    42. Re:Better Living Through Chemistry by ceoyoyo · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Because all drugs have side effects. I suspect this one is going to have some rather major ones too. It sounds like the drugs increase endurance, not necessarily strength. Increasing endurance involves all sorts of things, one of which is angiogenesis. Guess what's really good at encouraging angiogenesis? Malignant tumors.

    43. Re:Better Living Through Chemistry by ceoyoyo · · Score: 1

      Would they still be heros if they all had breasts and really little testicles?

    44. Re:Better Living Through Chemistry by Hijacked+Public · · Score: 1

      they make competition between people who use them and people who don't, one sided, boring and unfair.

      Not necessarily. Consider that most of Lance Armstrong's competitors were caught doping, Lance was not, yet no one could beat him. He plays a team sport but there were plenty of one on one battles.

      Steroids don't make anyone superhuman. If you have good genetics and talent and are dedicated and have a good coach and a good trainer, maybe steriods will give you a small edge over another person with the same all-of-the-above, but you aren't going to leave him in your dust.

      --
      "Sacrifice for the good of The State" - The State
    45. Re:Better Living Through Chemistry by nine-times · · Score: 1

      If this drug works as advertised & has no dangerous side effects, why wouldn't *everyone* including athletes take it? I realize that this would be an unfair advantage in the present, but I'm talking about after 20+ years of testing.

      Well even if it turns out to be relatively free of dangerous side-effects, there will still be the issue of dosage. Anything will kill you if you take too much of it, and however well this stuff works, there will still be the possibility of abuse.

    46. Re:Better Living Through Chemistry by MarkvW · · Score: 1

      Not all doctors are created equal. Not all steroid regimens are equally effective for individual athletes.

      Steroid-enabled contests would no longer be athlete vs. athlete, but rather athlete/doctor/pharmacy team vs. athlete/doctor/pharmacy team.

    47. Re:Better Living Through Chemistry by the_rtb · · Score: 1

      I look forward to the day I get mugged by a 90 year old granny. The future sure is wonderful.

    48. Re:Better Living Through Chemistry by Hoi+Polloi · · Score: 1

      The side-effects of lack of exercise aren't much better. If I could take a reasonably safe pill that would save me from having to run around a track for hours every day then I'm all for it.

      This isn't a complete substitute though, you still have to move. It just makes the benefits of rigorous exercise easier to get.

      He said the drugs worked off a person's genetics, pushing the body to an improved set-point otherwise gained only by strenuous training. "This is not just a free lunch," he said. "It's pushing your genome toward a more enhanced genetic tone that impacts metabolism and muscle function. So instead of inheriting a great set-point you are using a drug to move your own genetics to a more activated metabolic state."

      --
      It is by the juice of the coffee bean that thoughts acquire speed, the teeth acquire stains. The stains become a warning
    49. Re:Better Living Through Chemistry by SQLGuru · · Score: 1

      Two words: four hours

      Layne

    50. Re:Better Living Through Chemistry by Rogue+Haggis+Landing · · Score: 1

      Call it a strike if they get hit over the plate

      I believe that is already the rule, that if you get hit when the ball is in the strike zone, it is a strike.

      That's the rule, but it never gets called that way. A lot of changes that MLB could make are simply based on extant rules: call the high strike in the rulebook, don't allow the leadoff batter to erase the back line of the batter's box (as they all do now) and force him to stay in the box, don't automatically grant the batter timeout if he steps out of the box (as per the rulebook), etc.

    51. Re:Better Living Through Chemistry by thetoadwarrior · · Score: 1

      Normal guys may want to do that but it's not wise since some long-term effects are showing up. Studies are claiming that it does everything from kill off your sex drive completely to just making you completely dependant on it and some claim it may cause penis shrinkage.

      So yeah, I'll definitely pass on taking it until I absolutely have to.

    52. Re:Better Living Through Chemistry by geobeck · · Score: 1

      Two words: four hours

      Eleven words: You need a pill to do that? Sucks to be you.

      --
      Find environmentally and socially responsible products on http://buy-right.net
    53. Re:Better Living Through Chemistry by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why don't people realize that posts like this, and the ones where they tell us how seldom they watch television, just serve to make them look like snobbish sons of bitches?

    54. Re:Better Living Through Chemistry by geobeck · · Score: 1
      1. Get
      2. off
      3. your
      4. lazy
      5. ass!

      Seriously! Take a pill to lower your cholesterol! Take a pill to lose weight! Take a pill to build muscle! And let's get cracking on pills to make you smart, good looking, and rich!

      Maybe, just maybe, if people were to put a little bit of effort into improving themselves, they might not end up gravitationally chained to that couch, fantasizing about the mildly attractive news anchors on the only channel they're able to watch because they can't seem to make it across the room to where they left the remote last night when they went to take a leak.

      /rant

      --
      Find environmentally and socially responsible products on http://buy-right.net
    55. Re:Better Living Through Chemistry by bkruiser · · Score: 1

      Poor people won't have to afford it. They will be asked to take it or forfit governmental and private health insurance which will require it or a fittness test on a regular basis.

    56. Re:Better Living Through Chemistry by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      or to frugal to buy it, and we steal internet too

    57. Re:Better Living Through Chemistry by 4D6963 · · Score: 1

      Right on. That's why I said what I said, anyone healthy without a problem can get to the same thing naturally, so what's the point?

      --
      You just got troll'd!
    58. Re:Better Living Through Chemistry by SpiderClan · · Score: 1

      Is it not possible to use steroids without abusing them? In addition to carrying higher risk, it's probably a waste of time and money. Strength, or any other metric of athleticism, will only take you so far in any sport.

      What is nih? And are there studies to back up any of nih's assertions?

    59. Re:Better Living Through Chemistry by sm62704 · · Score: 1

      A batter would greatly benefit from better eyesight. In fact, almost any sport involving a small ball would, particularly one travelling at close to a hundred miles an hour.

      It's the baseball hitters who are getting LASIK on their perfectly good eyeballs, but I can see golfers, archers, and sharpshooters as well.

      --
      mcgrew's razor: Never attribute to stupidity that which can be explained by greedy self-interest
    60. Re:Better Living Through Chemistry by sm62704 · · Score: 1

      I'm 56, my two kids are grown, so sterility would be a benefit to me, rather than a detriment. I'd get a vasectomy but frankly the thought of possible malpractice scares the hell out of me.

      --
      mcgrew's razor: Never attribute to stupidity that which can be explained by greedy self-interest
    61. Re:Better Living Through Chemistry by CogDissident · · Score: 1

      The price of making a drug, and the cost, have nothing to do with one another. AIDS medicine costs maybe 20 cents per day for it. It costs upwards of 100x that per day.

    62. Re:Better Living Through Chemistry by Arterion · · Score: 1

      Because most people don't need the muscle mass? It just takes more energy to keep. Not that most people in the U.S. don't consume way more energy than they need...

      --
      "That which does not kill us makes us stranger." -Trevor Goodchild
    63. Re:Better Living Through Chemistry by malkir · · Score: 1

      If you know anything about medicine, it's a lot like programming. Fix one thing, break another. Yea, maybe it increases endurance/stamina - and shortens your lifespan by 20 years. But hey! Who's counting? Think about this logically, your body has been doing it's thing for thousands of years. Now we're giving it supplements to simulate what we're not getting, exercising. We should be running around in a forest, not popping pills. It's like a 90% of having some huge downside, and by huge downside I mean shrinking your 1337-stick.

    64. Re:Better Living Through Chemistry by ksd1337 · · Score: 1

      Ha. Reminds me of Body Melt.

    65. Re:Better Living Through Chemistry by sumdumass · · Score: 1

      I look forward to the day someone doesn't have to lift their 90 year old granny in and out of bed to do mundane ordinary tasks like use the restroom. Having taken care of an elderly relative, there are a lot of humiliating situations (for both you and the elderly relative) that you have to suffer through or hand off to a stranger at a nursing home somewhere.

      I know you were attempting to be funny, and I can see the humor in it. But I would take a 90 year old granny capable of mugging people over watching them wither away any day. Shoving them out of sight and into a nursing home (which I eventually had to do) makes it a little easier, but it isn't exactly a stranger your sending off.

      I guess something more bright in the future you should look forward to might be the 90 year old granny with Alzheimer's and she can't remember mugging you so when the police ask her to take the lie detector test, it absolves her.

    66. Re:Better Living Through Chemistry by ConceptJunkie · · Score: 1

      The obvious solution is to make steroids mandatory.

      Shrug. Why do people think these problems are hard to solve?

      --
      You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
    67. Re:Better Living Through Chemistry by nine-times · · Score: 1

      Oh, I'm not knocking the idea. I'm just trying to say that even if it's a miracle pill and very safe, it might still be that it could be abused.

      I mean, I don't know how this thing works, but lets say I could take 1 pill a day and it would help me keep my body healthy. Would I get to be in better shape by taking 2 pills? Is it a more-is-better kind of thing, a more-is-worse kind of thing, or a more-will-just-get-excreted-by-your-body sort of thing?

      Because a certain level of androgen also keeps you healthy, but too much will both enhance athletic performance and have undesirable side-effects. Might we find that this drug also can be a performance-enhancer when used at dangerous dosages? Or is that somehow impossible?

    68. Re:Better Living Through Chemistry by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      One word: Nice! Your mom

    69. Re:Better Living Through Chemistry by ucblockhead · · Score: 1

      This is already happening. Cheap food in the Western world is the sort of high calorie food that makes you fat and the poor can't afford gym memberships. Because of this, the poor tend to be fatter and in worse shape.

      --
      The cake is a pie
    70. Re:Better Living Through Chemistry by SQLGuru · · Score: 1

      Actually, if you're healthy, you'll lose the erection after USING the erection.....then you wait a little while before you get another one. Even if you are young and in your prime, you have some "intermissions" between erections. It's the perfect time to provide some alternative stimilation or even to just cuddle.......

      Layne

    71. Re:Better Living Through Chemistry by garebear · · Score: 1

      Baseball is a game of records. Records which were established over the last hundred years or so. If you can't go back in time and give everyone steroids, it makes the record books uneven. This is why you can't have steroids in baseball.

    72. Re:Better Living Through Chemistry by 4D6963 · · Score: 1

      True, but is it really a bad thing (not that you said it was)? I'd guess if you're healthy and use Viagra you'll be more sore once you're done.

      --
      You just got troll'd!
    73. Re:Better Living Through Chemistry by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Last time I went to a gym, they didn't allow me to run for more than half an hour on the treadmill because there was people waiting. The result is I stopped going to the gym and continued running outside instead. A gym is great for socializing, but if the goal is to be in shape, going outside (for free) is a much better solution.

      BTW, weight problems are mainly due to mental illness (mainly caused by too much stress), not lack of exercise. The normal result of a lack of exercise is eating less, not getting fat. The reason a lot of Americans are obese is not because of bad food, but because the US is an extremely competitive country.

    74. Re:Better Living Through Chemistry by bckrispi · · Score: 1

      The problem is that not every one *can* get up off the couch to exercise. There are millions of people in the US who suffer from debilitating conditions that severely limit the activities that they can do. Something as common as herniated or ruptured disk in your back could easily keep you bedridden for 16 hours a day.

      Think before you spout off your self-righteous indignation.

      --
      Xenon, where's my money? -Borno
    75. Re:Better Living Through Chemistry by geobeck · · Score: 1

      While it's true there are a small number of people who need assistance such as this pill (which would be a godsend to people recovering from long-term immobilization), looking into my crystal ball, and judging from most of the remotely on-topic replies to this article, it looks like it's going to be another viagara, dispensed by the thousand to people who want an excuse to stay on the couch 18 hours a day.

      --
      Find environmentally and socially responsible products on http://buy-right.net
    76. Re:Better Living Through Chemistry by sir+fer · · Score: 1

      Actually, if you're healthy, you'll lose the erection after USING the erection

      I know for a fact that this is *not* true. Guess it still sucks to be you. Either that, or what you regard as "healthy" is actually pathological normalcy.

      --
      Debian FTW ;o)
    77. Re:Better Living Through Chemistry by reup247 · · Score: 1

      The way it could be handled is the same as bodybuilding. There could be a natural division where athletes would be allowed NO assistance and would be given rigorous drug tests along with polygraph testing. There could also be a free-for-all where athletes could take whatever they want (or perhaps nothing for the privacy advocates that disagree with the intrusive practices). I'm admittedly not a very big fan of baseball or other common spectator sports but would actually watch athletes with supraphysiological levels of hormones showing what the enhanced human body is really capable of. Gene doping will likely be next, anyway.

    78. Re:Better Living Through Chemistry by ucblockhead · · Score: 1

      Note: Go to a high end (read: more expensive) gym. No time limits. No waiting for machines.

      Of course, the really rich have their own equipment and personal trainers.

      --
      The cake is a pie
    79. Re:Better Living Through Chemistry by owlstead · · Score: 1

      And why not replace the bat and the ball as well and use robots?

      Whop.

      Uh oh.

    80. Re:Better Living Through Chemistry by Paradise+Pete · · Score: 1
      I can tell you my experience with it. In the last five years I've used it often. (I'm 51.) I can get along without it, but with it I'm like a teenager again. I could pound nails with the thing. Other than the natural decreasing of interest with age I've not lost interest. And as for shrinkage, there certainly has been none, and because of the stronger erection, during sex it's larger than it would be without it. There are only two downsides that I've experienced: My face gets a bit flushed, and if I take more than about 30mg it gets so rigid that I lose feeling.

      But it's not even close - the advantages *far* outweigh the downside.

      And almost everyone I know who's my age uses it. To some it's like Mastercard - they don't leave home without it.

    81. Re:Better Living Through Chemistry by blitziod · · Score: 1

      i have always wondered about that. Lance HAD to be taking steriods. Not because he won, because he had testicular cancer. He would have been prescribed some sort of testo-replacement therapy.

      --
      The only way to bust a doper--is when you yourself become a smoker!
    82. Re:Better Living Through Chemistry by CaptainChuck · · Score: 0

      The drug might balance the game instead of unbalancing it. It merely promotes the changing of muscle fibers from the endomorph to mesomorph configuration. If so it wouldn't do so much for elite athletes whose genetic good fortune gave them the right fibers in the first place.

    83. Re:Better Living Through Chemistry by Hal_Porter · · Score: 1

      If we all took drugs to increase muscle mass and intelligence and decrease body fat it could work. The drugs would be voluntary. The media would find out about possibly risky drugs of course, and people would be free to stop taking them.

      There's a worst case scenario where a drug seems to work for a while and then kills 100% of its users through untreatable cancer. To avoid that you could tag the drugs to social security number but still give people a choice. So I could choose drug A and drug B but not the others. The test groups would gradually be expanded once there was no sign of problems. They'd contract naturally based on rumours of problems because people in the group would stop taking the drugs if they read they were risky. The idea of the test group is to make sure that the worst case scenario doesn't happen with a drug everyone was taking.

      If you can avoid that, in the long run we would turn into a race of Nietzschean Übermenschen.

      --
      echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
    84. Re:Better Living Through Chemistry by thetoadwarrior · · Score: 1

      Your experience could be the norm but there might be 10% that have those other side effects and maybe those effect show up more if you're young and can already pound nails with it.

      I just think it's short-sighted for younger people, especially in their 20's, to use it when they could potentially risk screwing things up later in life.

    85. Re:Better Living Through Chemistry by vertinox · · Score: 1

      I don't know. Maybe because the "Rich And Wealthy" would be the only ones who could afford it, and thus we'd have an upper-class composed of bodybuilder supermen, and a lower class consisting of only the frail.

      At least patents expire. Come to think of it... The Viagra patent is going to expire soon. Soon you'll see just about everyone company making cheap copies which won't really be any different than the original.

      --
      "I am the king of the Romans, and am superior to rules of grammar!"
      -Sigismund, Holy Roman Emperor (1368-1437)
    86. Re:Better Living Through Chemistry by alfredo · · Score: 1

      Mix crystal meth and ex lax.

      --
      photosMy Photostream
    87. Re:Better Living Through Chemistry by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think maybe he's this guy.

    88. Re:Better Living Through Chemistry by Paradise+Pete · · Score: 1

      Your experience could be the norm but there might be 10% that have those other side effects and maybe those effect show up more if you're young and can already pound nails with it. I just think it's short-sighted for younger people, especially in their 20's, to use it when they could potentially risk screwing things up later in life.

      Sure, my post is just anecdotal. Of all the people i know who use it (and talk about it), the various complaints I've heard are: Headaches, bluish vision, sleepiness, and one guy said he feels like he has a hangover the next morning. But then he drinks a lot, too ;-) But they all still use it. It's amazingly reliable. Of all the pills and medicines I've ever taken, it is the one most certain to do what it's supposed to do. It's like magic. If it didn't exist and some guy claimed he had a pill that could perform like it does I'd say he was a crackpot. Man has been searching for it for thousands of years, and now he can buy it for a dollar.

    89. Re:Better Living Through Chemistry by Hijacked+Public · · Score: 1

      More than likely, but I doubt he was given any strong anabolics. No deca injections or similar.

      Even so, anabolics and test aren't huge advantages for cyclists, regardless of what the Floyd Landis controversy led everyone to believe. Drugs that increase VOmax or hold off lactose would be more effective. There some advantages in long races like the Tour, for recovery purposes, but there are better drugs for even that purpose.

      --
      "Sacrifice for the good of The State" - The State
    90. Re:Better Living Through Chemistry by thetoadwarrior · · Score: 1

      What can I say, if and when I need it I'll definitely use it. No matter the side effects it is still a good invention. Hell, even if it caused cancer it'd still worth it more than smoking.

      I just don't think it's my time yet...my company has quite sucked all the joy out of me. It'll take them at least a few more years. ;)

    91. Re:Better Living Through Chemistry by DaAdder · · Score: 1

      Bruce Banner did this, like, a million years ago. Changes user color to green. Incompatible with mood stabilizers. Lame.

      I was a lot more amused until I realized it didn't actually say 'Perens'.

    92. Re:Better Living Through Chemistry by KingBenny · · Score: 0

      panem et circenses anyone ?

      --
      Free speech was meant to be free for all... how can anyone grow up in a nanny state ?
  5. The heart muscle? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    What about the type of muscle tissue found in the heart? Could this be used to help rebuild a heart that's been weakened by a heart attack?

    1. Re:The heart muscle? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Given that it mimics the results of aerobics, it probably would. Assuming that it doesn't give you another heart attack, first.

    2. Re:The heart muscle? by CrackedButter · · Score: 2, Informative

      Or what would happen if the heart enlarged and crushed itself against the ribcage because it got too big?

    3. Re:The heart muscle? by Darkness404 · · Score: 2, Funny

      Like the Grinch?

      --
      Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
    4. Re:The heart muscle? by ColdWetDog · · Score: 1

      Or what would happen if the heart enlarged and crushed itself against the ribcage because it got too big?

      You would turn into a sensitive new age kind of guy. You'd weep at 'Hello Kitty' movies. Women would flock to your side. Actually, your heart would fail long before it expanded into your chest cavity so you'd be dead. But the putative substance shouldn't work much on cardiac muscle from the limited info in TFA

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    5. Re:The heart muscle? by gregbot9000 · · Score: 1

      If steroids and other exercise/diet pills are any indication this will have a major impact on your heart. Stopping it.

    6. Re:The heart muscle? by cparker15 · · Score: 1

      You actually RTFA? Wow... you're a pioneer... boldly going and all that... like James T. Kirk... or something...

      --
      Have you driven a fnord... lately?

      You must wait a little bit before using this resource; please try again later.

    7. Re:The heart muscle? by D+Ninja · · Score: 1

      You would turn into a sensitive new age kind of guy. You'd weep at 'Hello Kitty' movies. Women would flock to your side.

      False. Despite what the media would have you think and what (some) women say - very few women are looking for a guy who is a girl.

      They want a guy.

      Don't start crying at movies. It won't help you.

    8. Re:The heart muscle? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No. This drug builds muscle cells to make them bigger, but once a cell is dead it is dead. It's effectively like trying to load a dead person up with the drug and hope they move: won't work. There might be some advantage in making the rest of the heart pump harder to compensate, but this may increase the risk of further infarction.

    9. Re:The heart muscle? by Sebilrazen · · Score: 1

      Or what would happen if the heart enlarged and crushed itself against the ribcage because it got too big?

      Cardiac Hypertrophy is a serious issue, and two of the alleged causes are stress and high blood pressure. It really doesn't get big enough to crush itself against the ribcage, but it becomes so large that the muscles that cause the contraction of the ventricles aren't able to work as efficiently, which leads to less blood volume movement, which leads to fluid build up in the system (edema) which ultimately leads to Congestive Heart Failure (CHF), not a pretty way to go.

      --
      "There are no facts, only interpretations." --Friedrich Nietzsche.
    10. Re:The heart muscle? by ShadowRangerRIT · · Score: 1

      It's unlikely it would have any serious effect on the heart. It basically encourages the conversion of low endurance to high endurance muscle fiber. Your heart is already composed of high endurance fiber, there's little to change. Also, by and large, high endurance fibers are narrower and denser than low endurance fibers, so the size of your muscles would actually shrink in some cases, even as the total number of fibers remained constant or even increased a little.

      --
      $_ = "wftedskaebjgdpjgidbsmnjgcdwatb"; tr/a-z/oh, turtleneck Phrase Jar!/; print
    11. Re:The heart muscle? by SpcCowboy · · Score: 1

      This pill, steroids, or just plain working out cause muscles to get bigger and stronger by enlarging and strengthening the cells that are already present. Muscles don't grow because your adding new cells. In the case of a heart attack, the damaged tissue consists of cells that died due to lack of oxygen. Since the drug can't make new cells, it can't undo the damage caused by an MI. Worse, if the pill is active in heart as well as skeletal muscle, it could accelerate the hypertrophy that is likely to occur post infarct and cause the onset of ischimic heart failure.

      --
      -- Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new. -- Albert Einstein
    12. Re:The heart muscle? by yabos · · Score: 1

      Heart muscle and other muscle are different and aren't affected in the same way by PPAR-Alpha as PPAR-Gamma affects skeletal muscle.

      Some smart stuff in this thread for anyone who is into it http://anabolicminds.com/forum/exercise-science/100402-couch-mouse-mr.html

    13. Re:The heart muscle? by mr_mischief · · Score: 1

      Feel free to cry a little at Old Yeller and Field of Dreams, but only at the end of each. Laugh maniacally at action movies with your guy friends. Find other women with whom your wife or girlfriend can watch chick flicks while you and your friends watch the war movies and gangster movies she doesn't enjoy.

    14. Re:The heart muscle? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In that case, it could be catastrophic for healthy hearts: Too much muscle tissue would clog it up.

  6. so .... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    would it work on gerbils? ...

    --- Richard Gere

    1. Re:so .... by sm62704 · · Score: 2, Funny

      Your server got slashdotted again, Rick? better buy more gerbil wheels for that generator!

      --
      mcgrew's razor: Never attribute to stupidity that which can be explained by greedy self-interest
  7. Universal Soldier anyone ? by kasmq1 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Not the full extent of the movie, but in one way the same. more powerful by doing nothing. Also, must be noted: good for astronauts when coming back to earth from long "exposure " to microgravity. muscle distrofy

    1. Re:Universal Soldier anyone ? by antirelic · · Score: 4, Funny

      How about "universal soldier MICE"?!?! Have you not seen all the wonder drugs made for mice? The world, fooled by the tiny size of mice, have overlooked all the scientific breakthroughs in the field of "super mice enhancement". Everything from "mental performance enhances", "cancer curing medicine" and now "muscle building drugs"... The days of humans are number. Fuck Asimov, Mice dont follow no rules.

      Can we please get a tag called "supermice"?

      --
      20th century Marxism is not progress...
    2. Re:Universal Soldier anyone ? by Beardo+the+Bearded · · Score: 1

      That was my first thought: long-term microgravity survival.

      --

      ---
      ECHELON is a government program to find words like bomb, jihad, plutonium, assassinate, and anarchy.
    3. Re:Universal Soldier anyone ? by sm62704 · · Score: 1

      Yeah, but give the mice a break, they built the earth to figure out what "42" meant.

      --
      mcgrew's razor: Never attribute to stupidity that which can be explained by greedy self-interest
    4. Re:Universal Soldier anyone ? by Culture20 · · Score: 1

      You just wrote the backstory for my next GURPS Supers character. TY

    5. Re:Universal Soldier anyone ? by Kuukai · · Score: 1

      What about "pinkyandthebrain"?

      --
      Sendou Wave Kick!!
    6. Re:Universal Soldier anyone ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm wondering what type of effect this will produce on our brains. If in fact it triggers this particular gene...who is it to say that it might not trigger some other gene as well??

  8. Is the drug called "Venom"? by jsheedy · · Score: 1

    Sounds to me like a lead in to the next Batman movie.

    --
    Quid Pro Quo, nothing more, nothing less.
  9. Countertop meat machine by Conspiracy_Of_Doves · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Isn't the biggest problem (ok, biggest technical problem) with in vitro meat the fact that the muscle tissue that it grows can't get any exercise and is therefore soft and textureless?

    Couldn't this help with that problem?

    1. Re:Countertop meat machine by wisty · · Score: 1

      Nah. In vitro mean lacks blood vessels, so it sort of rots. Yuck. I expect that this may be used to beef up 'natural' livestock though.

  10. Wow! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    I've said it before, but I'll say it again: Never in history has there ever been a better time to be a mouse!

    1. Re:Wow! by jbeaupre · · Score: 1

      They even have their own powerful international organization working on getting kids to follow the "leader of the club." Televisions, food, household items, all brainwashing society and controlled by the head mouse, Mickey.

      Oh, those fiendish mice.

      --
      The world is made by those who show up for the job.
    2. Re:Wow! by sm62704 · · Score: 2, Funny

      I found a photograph of one of the mice used in this study.

      --
      mcgrew's razor: Never attribute to stupidity that which can be explained by greedy self-interest
    3. Re:Wow! by quantumplacet · · Score: 1

      I'm guessing there's a dumpster full of dead mice behind the research lab that would disagree with you....

    4. Re:Wow! by Hal_Porter · · Score: 1

      Yeah, but those mice were buff and hyperintelligent

      http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0083658/quotes
      "The light that burns twice as bright burns for half as long - and you have burned so very, very brightly, Roy. Look at you, you're the prodigal son; you're quite a prize."
      Dr. Eldon Tyrell
      Blade Runner

      --
      echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
  11. Pill would save lives. by gurps_npc · · Score: 2, Interesting
    One person quoted in the story basically gave the cynical statement about not needing the pill, people could just exercise.

    Well, the death rate for liposuction is about 19 deaths per 100,000 operations. (Note, this compares with a death rate of only 1 death per 100,000 elective surgeries, so it is rather poor).

    If the pill actually works, and eliminates liposuction, that is quite a few lives saved, not to mention plastic surgeons that are freed up to do the "burn remedies and birth defects that are the reason we got into this buisness" (cue eyebrow raise here).

    --
    excitingthingstodo.blogspot.com
    1. Re:Pill would save lives. by TooMuchToDo · · Score: 1

      You sir, are a glass half full kind of person. Kudos.

    2. Re:Pill would save lives. by FlyingBishop · · Score: 1

      That assumes that this pill has no serious side effects. Given that this is the first treatment in its class, it would be an unprecedented miracle if it had a seriously negative effect on less than 19 in 100,000 users. I'd expect a good number of Heart attacks and probably some strange new forms of muscle tissue damage.

    3. Re:Pill would save lives. by foetusinc · · Score: 1

      Or, again, they could just exercise.

    4. Re:Pill would save lives. by gregbot9000 · · Score: 1

      They never mention it in these stories, but what are the side effects? I doubt it will let you shed the pounds without some fucked up thing like shedding bone mass or nerves. I could see this having a linear correlation to pounds lost for years of life lost.

      From TFA "It's pushing your genome toward a more enhanced genetic tone that impacts metabolism and muscle function"

      cancer anyone? or what could possibly go wrong.

    5. Re:Pill would save lives. by Tenek · · Score: 1

      Keep in mind that the kind of people who undergo liposuction aren't going to be that healthy to begin with... that probably drags the death rate up a bit. Maybe not a lot, but it's still pretty low to begin with, and it then gets compared to things like what, a nose job? Risky, that.

    6. Re:Pill would save lives. by Linux_ho · · Score: 1

      On the other hand, those 19 are just the liposuction patients. Think about how many type II diabetics would be saved by this. Adult onset diabetes is one of the most treatable diseases around -- it can basically be cured with diet and exercise. But it still affects about 3% of the population and is the leading cause of blindness and non-traumatic amputations.

      --
      include $sig;
      1;
    7. Re:Pill would save lives. by notamisfit · · Score: 1

      What is the death rate per 100,000 for "putting the damn fork down?"

      --
      Jesus is coming -- look busy!
    8. Re:Pill would save lives. by Hatta · · Score: 0

      Anyone who dies because of liposuction gets what they deserved.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    9. Re:Pill would save lives. by sumdumass · · Score: 2, Insightful

      There are quite a few people who cannot exorcise. Elderly people with joint problems. People in casts with broken bones. people recovering from operations. There are a lot of people who the Mem Get of your ass and do something just isn't practical.

    10. Re:Pill would save lives. by 4D6963 · · Score: 1

      Liposuction? Won't anyone think of diseases involving degenerating muscles? Myopathy anyone?

      --
      You just got troll'd!
    11. Re:Pill would save lives. by maxume · · Score: 2, Funny

      100,000, eventually.

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    12. Re:Pill would save lives. by Firethorn · · Score: 1

      I'm in the military, I work out 5 hours a week. 3 hours of that is on the military's time(official duty hours).

      I'd likely take the 75% version - that'd make my workouts as effective as 8.75 hours working out a week. I am NOT one of the fortunate types that gains muscle easily(why I work out extra).

      The military has a big problem right now with fitness - not enough hours in the day for people that are expected to work while maintaining an excellent level of fitness, and needing personel numbers such that we can only afford to eliminate limited numbers of candidates based on their fitness. A pill that increases workout efficiency 75%?

      Assuming that the side effects are managable/limited, sign me up!

      --
      I don't read AC A human right
    13. Re:Pill would save lives. by Belial6 · · Score: 1

      Hey, we could do the same thing with breeding. Women could just stop taking THE pill and stop having sex. Telling people to do the stuff the don't like, and stop doing the stuff they do, is definitely the best route.

    14. Re:Pill would save lives. by gurps_npc · · Score: 1

      The pill doesn't shed pounds. It adds muscle. Big difference. A lot safer in my opinion to add muscle than it is to shed pounds.

      --
      excitingthingstodo.blogspot.com
    15. Re:Pill would save lives. by ShadowRangerRIT · · Score: 1

      *Treated* with diet and exercise, not cured. You can prevent further decline, and eliminate symptoms, but you can't cure it.

      --
      $_ = "wftedskaebjgdpjgidbsmnjgcdwatb"; tr/a-z/oh, turtleneck Phrase Jar!/; print
    16. Re:Pill would save lives. by geekoid · · Score: 1

      Not to mention more hotter looking people walking around.

      The point of exercise is to be healthy, not to do exercise.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    17. Re:Pill would save lives. by Linux_ho · · Score: 1

      *Treated* with diet and exercise, not cured. You can prevent further decline, and eliminate symptoms, but you can't cure it.

      Sigh. Yes, even though you have eliminated all symptoms of the disease and are completely healthy, technically you're not "cured" because if you return to eating junk and you stop exercising, your symptoms can return. Of course, anyone has a chance of developing diabetes if they eat a lot of junk and don't exercise. But thanks for your enlightening contribution.

      --
      include $sig;
      1;
    18. Re:Pill would save lives. by ShadowRangerRIT · · Score: 1

      I'm just saying that right now, if I choose to have a piece of the ice cream pie my company brought in for a birthday party, my worst concern is brain freeze. If I have Type II diabetes, and I'm exercising regularly and have a slice of the pie, I might need a shot of insulin. When your life is significantly impacted by a disease, I don't consider it cured.

      Personal example. I have asthma. When I take Claritin and use an inhaler, I don't have symptoms. I'm not cured.

      --
      $_ = "wftedskaebjgdpjgidbsmnjgcdwatb"; tr/a-z/oh, turtleneck Phrase Jar!/; print
    19. Re:Pill would save lives. by ShadowRangerRIT · · Score: 1

      On reflection, it occurs to me that at least with the diet and exercise regimen, you're not beholden to medicine, so you could theoretically keep the affliction under control under any circumstance, which does make it closer to a cure (since everyone, no matter the means, has access to it). Of course, using a pill to substitute for exercise would undo that benefit.

      In any event, I realize I'm being overly pedantic. I not trying to bait, I'm sorry to have given that impression.

      --
      $_ = "wftedskaebjgdpjgidbsmnjgcdwatb"; tr/a-z/oh, turtleneck Phrase Jar!/; print
    20. Re:Pill would save lives. by Gizzmonic · · Score: 2, Funny

      There are quite a few people who cannot exorcise.

      Your mother runs on the treadmills in Hell, Karras!

      --
      (-1, Raw and Uncut is the only way to read)
    21. Re:Pill would save lives. by bazorg · · Score: 1

      having big muscles is not the same as having a lean body. someone with big muscles (due to exercise or ot taking pills) can still be on the market for liposuction.

    22. Re:Pill would save lives. by sumdumass · · Score: 1

      Ha.. I didn't notice my misspelling of Exercise. Thanks..lol

    23. Re:Pill would save lives. by SpiderClan · · Score: 1

      Speak for yourself. I, and many other people, like exercise. Nobody runs marathons to be healthy, because it isn't. Nobody is boxing or doing any combat sports to be healthy. They are doing it because they like it.

      That being said, I don't like marathons or combat sports. I would continue to do the exercise I do even if I had this pill, and I wouldn't be alone.

    24. Re:Pill would save lives. by Capt.DrumkenBum · · Score: 1

      not to mention plastic surgeons that are freed up to do the "b00b jobs that are the reason we got into this buisness"

      There, fixed that typo for you.

      --
      If I were God, wouldn't I protect my churches from acts of me?
    25. Re:Pill would save lives. by mr_mischief · · Score: 1

      Once many people know they have diabetes, they are already significantly resistant to insulin. That means that sugar-lowering drugs which enhance insulin's function or insulin injections are necessary. Diet and exercise do not reverse insulin dependence, although they do slow its progression.

      Anyone can be born with Type I diabetes. Anyone can be born with a genetic predisposition to Type II diabetes. It's not all about junk food and sedentary lifestyles, although those are certainly contributing factors. They're bigger contributing factors than they should be, too. They're not the only factors, though.

      Binge drinking is also a contributing factor (just like for hypertension, cirrhosis, and kidney problems). I know lots of people who watch their diets and workout regimen closely who'll finish off a 6-pack on Friday night and another on Saturday along with a couple of shots or a pitcher of margaritas. A couple of drinks a day isn't bad for an adult. The sudden changes brought on by binge drinking and then sobering up can really damage the body, though, and diabetes is one way it can do that.

    26. Re:Pill would save lives. by gregbot9000 · · Score: 1

      Yep, cause all the drugs out there that add muscle are so safe, like steroids. The thing I was trying to get at is that any means to change your body through chemistry are likely to fuck up the system. Sure we can make chemical exercise, but I doubt it will be in one smooth pill you take twice a day with no trade off.

  12. Uh oh by larry+bagina · · Score: 5, Funny

    Once they develop pills for big dicks, fashion sense, personality, and odor elimination, Linux development will cease!

    --
    Do you even lift?

    These aren't the 'roids you're looking for.

    1. Re:Uh oh by gregbot9000 · · Score: 4, Funny

      Once they develop that pill most society will cease, we'll just all live in the forest being beautiful. Maybe that's how elves got started?

    2. Re:Uh oh by martin_henry · · Score: 1

      Once they develop pills for big dicks

      We alredy have pills for that...Don't you check your email?!?

      --
      www.purevolume.com/martyd
    3. Re:Uh oh by martin_henry · · Score: 1

      Once they develop pills for big dicks,

      I just sent you an email with details, check your inbox.

      --
      www.purevolume.com/martyd
    4. Re:Uh oh by Man+in+Spandex · · Score: 1

      My god, what a horrible world

      Thousands of geeks will have social lives with both arms of equal size and girlfriends. Linux development will cease, and Steve Ballmer will be able to throw objects far heavier than chairs

    5. Re:Uh oh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It sounds like a joke, but that's a real concern. As humans, the biggest reason we attempt to control things outside ourselves is because we are frustrated in our abilities to control ourselves. If we can gain control over our physical and mental conditioning by artificial means, it will drastically alter the motivations that drove us to do so in the first place.

      Some spiritual traditions, namely Zen, treat the release of control and attachment as a Good Thing. But this idea is ridiculous when applied on a global scale. A world run without effort and strife is a world in stasis. Once we take enough pills to remove physical and mental challenges from our lives, we're not so much living as we are cheating. And what happens in an online game when everyone cheats?

    6. Re:Uh oh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Once they develop pills for big dicks, fashion sense, personality, and odor elimination, Linux development will cease!

      No, I've met quite a few Linux devs who were big dicks.

    7. Re:Uh oh by phly1x · · Score: 0

      Once they develop pills for big dicks, fashion sense, personality, and odor elimination, Linux development will cease!

      What we need is a pill to CURE big dicks. I have to cycle past them to/from work every day, as well as when i am on training outings. ...every driver talking on a mobile is a BIG DICK.

    8. Re:Uh oh by nine-times · · Score: 1

      You might still need a teleporter capable of transporting things out of parents' basements, and a pill for women to unsharpen their knees.

    9. Re:Uh oh by Joe+Snipe · · Score: 1

      Once they develop that pill most society will cease, we'll just all live in the forest being beautiful. Maybe that's how elves got started? I for one, welcome our Morlock overlords!

      --
      Sometimes, life itself is sarcasm...
    10. Re:Uh oh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Elves? Yeah I saw them in the LoTR movie.... yes they have personality and fashion sense. Not sure about odor.

      Wait a sec...

      Where did you found elvish pr0n?

  13. Huh? by sm62704 · · Score: 4, Informative

    medical researchers have developed two drugs that can build muscle tone in mice without exercise

    The New Scientist article says

    Evans and his colleague Vihang Narkar wanted to see whether a drug that activates PPAR-delta could turn regular adult rodents to miniature marathon winners. But the drug - called WG1516 - did nothing for the mice but switch on a handful of genes in their muscles.

    However, when the researchers paired doses of WG1516 with a month of training - half an hour on a treadmill, five days a week - mice given the drug jogged longer and further than drug-free mice.

    Also, it isn't two drugs either one of which do the trick, but two drugs taken together. Not a good summary at all, if the NYT article says the same as the NS article.

    --
    mcgrew's razor: Never attribute to stupidity that which can be explained by greedy self-interest
    1. Re:Huh? by geekoid · · Score: 1

      Just a clarification.
      Mice who hadn't exercised jogged as far as mice that had been exercising regularly.

      This combination drugs sounds awesome.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    2. Re:Huh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You don't appear to have read the New Scientist article fully.
      The part you quoted refers to the drug which needs exercise to turn on.
      Later in the New Scientist article, they refer to a second drug, which doesn't need exercise.

      Just as the summary states.

  14. Space Exploration Applications? by halsver · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Presuming that this will be safe for use in humans, could this be one of the missing keys for space exploration? I'm imagining Joe Astronaut wakes from his month-long slumber on route to Planet X. His muscles have atrophied over this time, but by using these pills and doing some remedial exercise, he is ready to face the perils of the alien planet in days!

    I 3 the future.

         

    --
    Roughly half my comments are never submitted. You may be reading the better half...
    1. Re:Space Exploration Applications? by aztektum · · Score: 2, Informative

      The summary they posted is not at all what I wrote, but that's exactly the first thing that popped into my head when I read the article myself.

      --
      :: aztek ::
      No sig for you!!
    2. Re:Space Exploration Applications? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      For future reference, slashdot doesn't like the less than sign. And anyone who didn't catch that, it's "I (heart) the future" =)

      I thought was what painful electric shocks were for? Or maybe it was just to make us hate Keanu Reeves a bit less in the Matrix. Imagine if he just had to take a pill for a few weeks to get stronger. That would be one boring montage.

    3. Re:Space Exploration Applications? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      muscle atrophy is only one problem. another other is loss of bone density. there's nothing in the article which points to a fix for that yet.

    4. Re:Space Exploration Applications? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I 3 the future.

      I three the future too. We _all_ three the future.

    5. Re:Space Exploration Applications? by HTH+NE1 · · Score: 1

      I <3 the future.

      In the year 3535
      Ain't gonna need to tell the truth, tell no lies
      Everything you think, do, or say
      Is in the pill you took today

      --
      Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?
    6. Re:Space Exploration Applications? by Rayeth · · Score: 1

      Or in a more conventional use, hospital patients that have been in comas or undergone chemotherapy. Up and out of the hospital in much less time.

    7. Re:Space Exploration Applications? by doug · · Score: 1

      While it is useful to help with muscle mass, we need to find a way to prevent bone loss too.

    8. Re:Space Exploration Applications? by Geoff-with-a-G · · Score: 1

      For future reference, slashdot doesn't like the less than sign.

      But it does love the Preview button.

    9. Re:Space Exploration Applications? by ksd1337 · · Score: 1

      I 3 the future

      Ha! I 4 the future.

  15. Tag Needed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Steroids?

    1. Re:Tag Needed by sm62704 · · Score: 1

      There are two good ways to gain muscle mass: Steroids and stair-oids.

      --
      mcgrew's razor: Never attribute to stupidity that which can be explained by greedy self-interest
  16. my prediction: cell death!!! by jollyreaper · · Score: 2, Interesting

    This isn't based totally on science, just the assumption that anything too good to be true usually is.

    There are a couple of principles I might be getting wrong here, please correct me on that.

    1. Mammalian hearts all tend to have a lifespan of x number of beats. The slower the heart beats, the longer-lived the critter is. This explains why small, jumpy rodents tend to have short lives and something like a whale is long-lived. This x number seems to be fairly consistent across species.

    2. Scientists have shown that restricted calorie diets in mice will lengthen their lives and they believe this will hold true for humans as well. The more you eat, the sooner you die.

    3. Exercise has more components than just body movement. Muscles are strengthened through use by the tearing of muscle fibers and the healing process of repairing those tears. There's been talk of direct electric stimulation of muscles to prevent atrophy, first brought up for long space voyages, later depicted in the first Matrix movie when they had the freshly decanted Neo done up like a pin-cushion.

    My assumption is that this drug will turn out to be something like steroids. Do steroids work? Absolutely! All other conditions being equal, the athlete who uses steroids will typically outperform the athlete who remains clean. Of course, the one who remains clean will also retain important things like testicles, non-lactating breasts, and a future.

    --
    Kwisatz Haderach
    Sell the spice to CHOAM
    This Mahdi took Shaddam's Throne
    1. Re:my prediction: cell death!!! by TooMuchToDo · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Couple of things:

      1) If it's true your heart beating slower extends it's life, than it would pay to exercise to strenthen your heart. A stronger heart beats less at rest.

      2) A restricted calorie diet helps you live longer because certain cells in your body can only reproduce so many times. Cells stop dividing because the telomeres, protective bits of DNA on the end of a chromosome, become shorter with each division and eventually can no longer protect the chromosome (quoted from Wikipedia).

      3) If muscle cells can be coaxed through gene therapy to grow without the need to tear and than heal said cells, you wouldn't need to waste so much time doing useless exercise. The key is to find the genes/compounds that regulate metabolism and cellular growth, so you could have a healthy, fit body without wasting hours and hours a week running, bicycling, etc (unless you enjoy that thing, I'd prefer to be coding, designing electrical circuits, etc).

    2. Re:my prediction: cell death!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Mammalian hearts all tend to have a lifespan of x number of beats.

      That's a myth. There's no such thing as preprogrammed number of beats in a heart, and most people who die of heart don't just have their heart run out of beats and stop. It's rather clogged artheries, arithmia or another unrelated to count-of-beats problem.

    3. Re:my prediction: cell death!!! by Spazntwich · · Score: 1

      Care to cite some studies proving a majority, or even a significant minority of steroid users develop gynocomastia or shorten their lives to a statistically significant degree?

      You seem fairly educated. Are you not familiar with the use of HCG to prevent testicular atrophy during a period of steroid use?

      You were doing so well until you started spouting unfounded populist propaganda.

    4. Re:my prediction: cell death!!! by 4D6963 · · Score: 1

      1. Mammalian hearts all tend to have a lifespan of x number of beats. The slower the heart beats, the longer-lived the critter is. This explains why small, jumpy rodents tend to have short lives and something like a whale is long-lived. This x number seems to be fairly consistent across species.

      Wow, way to miss the proverbial elephant in the room that is that rule doesn't apply at all to humans.

      --
      You just got troll'd!
    5. Re:my prediction: cell death!!! by smoker2 · · Score: 1

      So humans are no longer mammals ?
      Here's an idea, take lots and lots of speed. You're obviously immune to the side effects.

    6. Re:my prediction: cell death!!! by maztuhblastah · · Score: 1

      Of course, the one who remains clean will also retain important things like testicles, non-lactating breasts, and a future.

      This comment makes me think your knowledge of modern anabolic steroids is limited to what you've seen in anti-drug PSAs and the like.
      A course of modern anabolics, combined with the proper ancillary drugs, will not (when used for a reasonable cycle length) have any of the three impacts you referred to. Yes, if you inject massive amounts of nandrolone and then suddenly stop cold-turkey, bad things will happen -- but if you use a multi-drug stack with titrated dosing, take Clomid and other PCT drugs when appropriate, and use modern compounds (such as stanozolol) which carry fewer risks, you'll most likely be fine.

    7. Re:my prediction: cell death!!! by yabos · · Score: 1

      He won't be able to post any because there are none. Seriously, no one has proven steroids cause early death and most side effects like increased cholesterol are temporary. Most of his post seems based of rumors and old wise tails rather than research or experience.

    8. Re:my prediction: cell death!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      old wives tales - uninformed speculation

    9. Re:my prediction: cell death!!! by ucblockhead · · Score: 1

      In regards to #3: Normally, the body continually tears down muscle using a substance called myostatin. The damage from exercise produces other hormones that cause the muscle to rebuild stronger. Animals (and humans) who do not have to ability to produce myostatin end up with massive muscles regardless of exercise. It is this hormone that causes muscles to atrophy, not exercise.

      Since there are two children who have this condition, we have at least two human models to see how people react. So far, the only serious side effect is a fast metabolism and massive appetite, which likely explains why this condition was selected against in precivilized humans.

      --
      The cake is a pie
    10. Re:my prediction: cell death!!! by Hassman · · Score: 1

      Mammalian hearts all tend to have a lifespan of x number of beats. The slower the heart beats, the longer-lived the critter is. This explains why small, jumpy rodents tend to have short lives and something like a whale is long-lived. This x number seems to be fairly consistent across species.

      I'm pretty sure this isn't true. If it was, exercising (making your heart beat faster for extended periods of time) would cut years OFF your life, not lengthen it.

      --
      -Mark
      Dovie'andi se tovya sagain.
  17. What good is this? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Seriously - Someone who is a lazy fat ass, will just be a lazy fat ass with better endurance after taking these pills.

    Maybe they could combine them with Alli and some meth. Motivation (my butt is leaking!), energy, and endurance, all in pill form.

    This pill may make it easier physically to get in shape, but the physical part isn't what keeps the Orca-style fatties of the world from losing weight. Their problem is a total lack of motivation.

  18. How is this different? by Xtravar · · Score: 1

    How is this that different from stimulants or steroids?

    I skimmed the article but didn't notice anything on the method of action. It just said, "Hey look at what our magical pill can do."

    I could probably take ephedrine and exercise and get the same effects.

    So would some expert like to chime in?

    Does it raise heart rate? Blood pressure?

    Does it alter mood? "Roid rage" and all that?

    --
    Buckle your ROFL belt, we're in for some LOLs.
    1. Re:How is this different? by ColdWetDog · · Score: 1

      Nobody knows the answers to your questions since (apparently) it hasn't been tested in humans yet. Just wait for the phase I (safety) trials. If it has anything like the effects noted in TFA (a moderate sized if - are you a man or a mouse?) then it's going to be trialed. There is just too much potential money in this sort of drug to ignore it.

      Actually, to sort of answer my own question - these are substances that have been previously synthesized - it's possible they have been tried on humans. Anyway, stay tuned. Slashdot should dupe this article in the next couple of weeks once Ars or Wired gets a hold of it.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    2. Re:How is this different? by iceperson · · Score: 1

      umm, it's in the summary "can build muscle tone in mice without exercise."

      i can take all the stimulants and steroids I want, but as long as I'm tapped in a cubicle all day they aren't going to do much for me...

    3. Re:How is this different? by sm62704 · · Score: 1

      How is this that different from stimulants

      Stimulants like cocaine or amphetamines take away hunger. They will not only cause loss of fat weight, but muscle mass as well.

      Check out your average crack whore - she looks like an anorexic, with no fat but no muscle either.

      --
      mcgrew's razor: Never attribute to stupidity that which can be explained by greedy self-interest
    4. Re:How is this different? by yabos · · Score: 1

      It's different because it's a completely different pathway. Steroids are hormones and increase protein synthesis.

    5. Re:How is this different? by mr_mischief · · Score: 1

      Dude, you seriously need to quit driving down South Grand near 15th Street and posting what you see to /. -- try cruising Chatham sometime for all the pot-smoking munchies-fueled rich girls. It's a much more pleasant sight. ;-)

  19. Useful for those extra terrestrial nerds by penguin+wise · · Score: 2, Interesting

    My thought on first seeing this was you could use this for extended space flights add in something for bone density loses and the first guy to walk on mars won't need a walker.

    1. Re:Useful for those extra terrestrial nerds by MarkvW · · Score: 1

      Now THAT is a slashdot post! UDAMAN!

  20. Give me my smart pill by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    I want a pill that will improve critical thinking skills! And logical reasoning ability!

    And while we are at it, lets make it inhance one's capacity for impartial objectivity when making important decisions.

    I would spend my entire life savings on this stuff just to dump it in my city's tap water.

    One can dream...

    1. Re:Give me my smart pill by martin_henry · · Score: 1

      just to dump it in my city's tap water.

      Yes, but would you be able to lift it all?

      --
      www.purevolume.com/martyd
    2. Re:Give me my smart pill by rve · · Score: 1

      I want a pill that gives me lots of luck in gambling

    3. Re:Give me my smart pill by Sebilrazen · · Score: 1

      I want a pill that gives me lots of luck in gambling

      Pills won't do that, but a pocket full of Polaroids will, as long as you don't take my picture.

      (Check out the movie Intacto - interesting Spanish flick)

      --
      "There are no facts, only interpretations." --Friedrich Nietzsche.
    4. Re:Give me my smart pill by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you were going to spend you're life savings on that, you clearly need to take some of the smart pills yourself...

    5. Re:Give me my smart pill by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I want a Write A Space Opera pill.

    6. Re: Give me my smart pill by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    7. Re:Give me my smart pill by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      try piracetam and vasopresin

    8. Re:Give me my smart pill by Digital+End · · Score: 1

      In other news tonight, a local man on a mission, AC has been arrested for dumping a dumptruck full of the new 'Clearthought' drug into the watersupply in Washington DC. Unfortunatly, in being exposed to a concept they were not prepared for, suicide rates among all gov't branchs has skyrocketed, with over a hundred, including the president, and vice president, dead so far.

      Local residents were quoted as saying "And nothing of value was lost"

      --
      Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart, he dreams himself your master.
    9. Re:Give me my smart pill by CryptoKiller · · Score: 1

      I can't agree more without actually hurting myself!

    10. Re:Give me my smart pill by GWBasic · · Score: 1

      I want a pill that will improve critical thinking skills! And logical reasoning ability! And while we are at it, lets make it inhance one's capacity for impartial objectivity when making important decisions. I would spend my entire life savings on this stuff just to dump it in my city's tap water. One can dream...

      Isn't it called Ritalin...?

  21. Space travel by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This might be practical for space travel, to help stave off muscle atrophy. Not sure what to do about the bone density issues, though. Another pill?

  22. hmmm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    'It's a little bit like a free lunch without the calories'

    Isn't that a bit like. . . no lunch at all?

  23. Good news for us by dashesy · · Score: 1

    Now we can happily sit in front of our desktops for all day long, then take a pill before going to bed :) Nerds always try to beat super heroes in a nerdish way. Brain vs. Muscle which one wins?

    1. Re:Good news for us by SpiderClan · · Score: 1

      If you need this pill, then apparently muscle wins.

  24. Pills, pills, pills... by cavis · · Score: 2

    So now modern medicine/technology already allows us to tan without sun, whiten our teeth with lasers, cure impotence, prolong our days without sleep, control anxiety, maintain our cholesterol... and now we don't even have to get off the couch to get exercise? I hope they prescribe these in Pez dispensers because someone is going to pass out trying to open a standard prescription bottle.

    While I can see medical uses for this, I think this goes way too far for the average person. What happens when someone's fat and calorie intake increases while this pill makes them fit? "Gee, I don't know why George died of a heart attack at 34. He was taking 3 Aicar pills a day, so he was in great shape."

    1. Re:Pills, pills, pills... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In the year 3535 Ain't gonna need to tell the truth, tell no lies Everything you think, do, or say Is in the pill you took today

    2. Re:Pills, pills, pills... by Gizzmonic · · Score: 1

      Yes, and what about that "writing" invention? When people start using that, they'll lose their memories! And flying like a bird? God would have given us wings if He had intended that! And what's with these "antibiotics?" No one should be taking pills like this! It just ain't natural!

      --
      (-1, Raw and Uncut is the only way to read)
  25. Resveratrol by PIPBoy3000 · · Score: 1

    The drugs activate at least one of the chemical pathways triggered by resveratrol, a substance that also showed increased endurance in mice. Resveratrol is found in red wine though in amounts probably too low to significantly affect muscle.

    This lends weight to the thought that Resveratrol triggers a bunch of pathways that increases life span and enhances health. Of course, the catch of all of these "health in a pill" solutions is that they just point the body in the right direction. Sure, your muscle population may shift to a higher metabolic state, but if you sit around, you won't burn many more calories.

    I've been getting into the habit of running six miles a day and am amazed at how much energy it takes. I've been in pretty good shape, but there's nothing like burning an extra thousand calories a day to get rid of the last of that abdominal fat.

    1. Re:Resveratrol by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "The drugs activate at least one of the chemical pathways triggered by resveratrol, a substance that also showed increased endurance in mice. Resveratrol is found in red wine though in amounts probably too low to significantly affect muscle."

        So the real cure for obesity is a new diet, where you exercise and drink A LOT of red wine? Sounds good!

    2. Re:Resveratrol by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've been getting into the habit of running six miles a day and am amazed at how much energy it takes.

      Holy fucking shit, dude. I'm amazed how much energy it takes for me to go up the stairs to the third floor.

  26. Lifestyle side effects by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Being muscular" is only one of the health benefits of regular exercise. The physical motions stimulate a release of built-up toxins throughout the body, as well as support the functioning of various parts of the immune system (we really didn't evolve to sit around all day). Oh and sweating is also an important means of expelling built-up toxins.

    So people who take the pill instead of exercising will be muscular but still not very healthy. People who augment the pill's use with regular aerobic exercise (full-body stuff but not necessarily needing heavy weight resistance) will be the ones who get the most benefit.

    And, of course, you could combine the pill with intensive weight training, and heap so much muscle on your skeleton that it can't bear the load...giving you joint problems of all varieties, but that is an entirely different concern.

  27. Move over Fluoride by wkk2 · · Score: 1

    Employers will be adding it to the water cooler.

  28. Have your cake and eat it to? by Duncan+Blackthorne · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Nice idea, but I'm not going to hold my breath. My chosen sport is cycling, and I like to ride long distances, the faster the better. If, on top of the training I do, this pill improves my endurance and other attributes similarly to what it did in mice, and it does that with no life-threatening side effects, then I might consider it. However every "miracle drug" that has ever come along has always come up with some long-term side-effects that shorten life spans or even kill you outright. I'll stick to my workouts and training rides for now, thank you very much.

    1. Re:Have your cake and eat it to? by Duncan+Blackthorne · · Score: 1

      Dang it, that is supposed to read "Have your cake and eat it too". Sorry, Slashdotters. :-/

    2. Re:Have your cake and eat it to? by Belial6 · · Score: 1

      I would say that the birth control pill could be considered the greatest "miracle drug" ever made. Really, a pill that a woman takes each morning, and you can have sex all day every day, and not have to worry about a pregnancy?!?!?! Wow!

      There are also things like vaccines and aspirin. The thing about "miracle drugs" is that if they work, and don't cause serious harm, they start to be considered commonplace and are no longer considered a miracle.

      I'm not saying that you are completely wrong, as there are definitely more bad "miracle drugs" announced than good "miracle drugs", but I think saying that every "miracle drug" is bad is doing what we all tend to do, which is to forget just how amazing the ho-hum things around us really are.

    3. Re:Have your cake and eat it to? by Duncan+Blackthorne · · Score: 1

      Fair enough.. I should have cited some examples of what I meant by "miracle drugs": things like cortisone, or fen-phen.

    4. Re:Have your cake and eat it to? by owlstead · · Score: 1

      No problem, nobody noticed until you mentioned it. Everybody thinks it is a good idea as well that you don't hold your breath while exercising.

  29. It's about time by Paul+Carver · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Although I run 5K at least 4-5 times per week and try to do at least a couple of hours of weight lifting per week, I still think that self righteous "eat less, exercise more" preachers are a bunch of jerks.

    Every food or weight related story on Slashdot brings these jerks out of the woodwork. They build up their self esteem by criticizing others. Like an anorexic or a bulimic, they have nothing important to be proud of so they build their self esteem on their weight and feel superior to people who are heavier than they are.

    Without resorting to a puritan religious justification, how can you argue that a task "should" be difficult? If it's easier for me to be fit than it is for you, does that make you "better" than me?

    If a pill can make it easier for you to lose weight and has no adverse effects why shouldn't you use it? Only a religious jerk demands that people should suffer more than necessary.

    If one person enjoys rich creamy deserts and another person enjoys basketball how can you attribute "moral" superiority to one or the other. They're both doing things they enjoy. There's absolutely no moral implication that one of those things tends to increase weight and the other tends to decrease weight.

    1. Re:It's about time by kristopher_d · · Score: 1

      The primacy of life, especially one's own, should be reason enough for us all to be fit. I say this as the guy who carries around and extra half person between me and my skin. I've been working out most evenings for a month and a half now, and just plain find it frustrating. Before braking my ankle I was very fit, but all my activities were leg centric, and I didn't realize I was gaining weight until I had gained enought that excercising on a less tha optimally performing ankle was painful. Not uncomfortable, painful. So while I would tend to agree with the fit crowd to some degree (sorry, not switching to egg white only omelettes) I do agree that most of that crowd has an unearned hollier than thou attitude.

    2. Re:It's about time by Anonymatt · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I just want to be a regular guy that can do more work and feel less fatigued.

    3. Re:It's about time by Innominandum · · Score: 2, Insightful

      When it comes to criticizing others on this issue, I don't think it has much to do with being fit or fat. It has to do with people that expect everything for free. The people who criticize others probably work very hard to stay "in shape." It didn't happen over night. It's the same deal for people who have become financially successful, have become capable at a musical instrument, or even honed their programming skills. It's the result of hard work.

      I DO think there is a moral superiority for those who work hard to acheive goals vs. hedonists are only willing to accept life's pleasures.

      Quit whining about being fat, get off your butt, and do something about it. It won't always be fun or easy, but as Pope Benedict XVI said, "we were not created for comfort, but for greatness..."

      The pill sounds good, though. :-)

    4. Re:It's about time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Although I run 5K at least 4-5 times per week and try to do at least a couple of hours of weight lifting per week, I still think that self righteous "eat less, exercise more" preachers are a bunch of jerks.

      the problem with eat less / exercise more is that it doesn't work for the vast majority of people (look around, people).

      the reason is that it is a way over simplified view of diet - it assumes that one's hormonal regulatory system plays ZERO role in what the body does with calories and how those calories make one feel.

      hormones play a HUGE role in hunger, muscle development, fat retention, energy levels, blood sugar levels, etc.

      food plays a HUGE role in hormonal modulation.

      while joslin diabetes center wasn't the first to recommend this diet (13 years late, to be exact), i will point you in their direction lest anyone get upset and think that i'm
      spamming for the commercial company of the PhD lipid researcher that developed this hormonally balanced diet.

      http://www.joslin.org/1083_2162.asp

      to get an idea of the power of diet, manuel uribe, formerly the heaviest human on earth at 1230 lbs (you think you have hunger / weight gain issues!), went from starving on 30,000+ calories a day to satiated on about 2,000 calories a day.

      http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/from_our_own_correspondent/6612719.stm

      after about 2 years, he's down to just over 800 lbs and has no doubt he will eventually hit his target weight of about 250 lbs. even more amazing, his blood pressure is excellent, his blood lipid profiles are excellent and his resting pulse rate is 55. you can follow Manuel's progress on the discovery channel.

      a very similar diet was also shown to reduce the incidence of diabetes 83% (Mediterranean diet minus most grains):

      http://www.reuters.com/article/healthNews/idUSL2979390020080530

      if you follow the joslin diabetes recommendations, you will be more satiated, you will have more energy, you will feel better, you will dramatically reduce cellular inflammation (hence, the reduction in diabetes, heart disease, dimentia, cancer, etc...) and life will be as it should be - pretty darn good.

      you are *exactly* correct. the body is much more complex than "calories in / calories out." this ought to be intuitive as people who eat few calories are often fatter than others who eat more calories. it is time to stop assuming that hormones play no role in how calories are utilized within the body. not only do they play a role, they play an incredibly powerful role that is almost impossible to over ride.

      the good news is that the dietary answer for almost all genetic profiles is out there. the bad news is that most people prefer the drug addicting, self medicating nature of a "tasty" high glycemic load diet and won't give it up, even it makes them fat, makes them feel like crap, ruins their physical and mental health and eventually kills them. if you disagree with this assessment, go out and learn how to implement the joslin diabetes center recommendations for a couple of months and see what kind of profound changes occur in your life. if you don't, you've done your part to provide anecdotal evidence that my assessment is true.

      as for athletes and those wanting to optimize their physical and mental performance, christian vande velde (tour de france, 5th place) and lisa bentley (american olympic time trial winner) are both on diets very similar to joslin diabetes center's current dietary recommendations. so was jenny thompson and dara torres - two of the most prolific swimmers in modern day history. jenny has 8 gold medals and dara set the american 50m free swim record as a 41 year old mother.

    5. Re:It's about time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In your example the problem isn't that he likes deserts but that he lack the self control to only eat a healthy amount of it. Knowing something is bad for you and still doing it shows a flaw in character in my opinion.

    6. Re:It's about time by diablovision · · Score: 1

      Actually, while you do tend to see those people and they are quite annoying, displaying the common human tendency to adopt a "holier than thou" position by whatever means necessary, with increasingly socialized medicine they (and all other people) in the system are paying for the consequences of others poor health and poor health choices. When they pay higher rates for insurance and higher taxes for socialized medicine, they actually do have a valid argument.

      They aren't suggesting that you should suffer more than necessary (presumably you mean suffering during exercise). But one can make the argument that if you can't be bothered to put your own effort and time into becoming healthy, then why the hell should they help you pay for a pill to achieve what they did with their own efforts?

      If you want to pay the full cost of the pill to make yourself more healthy, by all means, do so. But something tells me that this is NOT what is going to happen. People are going to claim that this miracle pill is absolutely vital to their health and then demand insurance cover it, or it be subsidized, and the like.

      If one person enjoys rich creamy deserts and another person enjoys basketball how can you attribute "moral" superiority to one or the other. They're both doing things they enjoy. There's absolutely no moral implication that one of those things tends to increase weight and the other tends to decrease weight.

      No, there isn't any moral question until one starts demanding the other help him out with the problems that arise from their behavior.

      --
      120 characters isn't enough to explain it.
    7. Re:It's about time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Preferring people who exercise to those who get it in pill form isn't really about moral superiority. I think it's about passing on genes. Basically, mates will always look for some way to find the "best" pairing. In modern society, even weak/poor people can afford enough food and basic housing, so the criteria for proving mate fitness will get more arbitrary. The difficulty of regular exercise, and eating well (good food == $$$) makes them great "red queen" sexual selection criteria. By consuming a large amount of quality energy and taking the time required to exercise, you prove to potential mates that you have excess resources, and thus "better" genes. It's the same reason male peacocks have a giant (predator-attracting) tail -- it proves to females that he can survive *in spite* of this self-handicap.

    8. Re:It's about time by mr_mischief · · Score: 1

      Actually, this being /., the majority of those preaching are probably doing so from their bedroom computers in mommy's house. There they are eating whatever they want and never gaining weight because their bodies are at the highest metabolic rate they'll ever experience in their lives. Since they have organized physical education classes and after-school sports, it's easy for them to find time to work out.

      Those who are saying it's hard but to do it anyway I can respect. Those who flippantly say, "LOL, lay the fork down, Blubberkins!" really need a reality check. Not everyone has the same life, and it's not easy for everyone.

      Hedonism isn't always about only "accepting" life's pleasures, BTW. Some people work really hard at making life a big party. There's a difference between doing nothing and putting pleasure before security no matter how much work it is. People who don't work for anything strike me more as nihilists than Hedonists. Hedonism is about the pleasure of life being a driving force rather than material wealth or lasting contributions to society. It's not about doing nothing to achieve pleasure. There is some conflagration there, of course, since the original Hedonists were largely wealthy slave owners. It was perfectly acceptable to work hard at throwing a party, though.

    9. Re:It's about time by KiahZero · · Score: 1

      So all those basketball players who break bones, sprain ligaments, tear muscles, or have various and sundry other medical problems related to their activity are morally flawed for wanting them to be covered by insurance?

      --
      I'm a lawyer, but not yours. I wouldn't represent someone who thinks taking legal advice from Slashdot is a good idea.
  30. Not necessarily by Moraelin · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Well, you have to realize that everything in your body is chemistry. No more, no less. All the feedback loops in your body, including "oi, we're doing lots of contracting here, we need more muscle fibers!" or "oi, we're suffocating here, let's have some more blood vessels!" are based on chemical signals. Some chemicals are produced, whether solely as a dedicated hormone/signal, or as a by-product of the cell's normal functions (e.g., CO2.) Some protein binds to them, and does something else. A lot of them regulate the expression of some genes to produce more or less of some other protein, or trigger cell division.

    So, yes, if you just force a bunch of cells to divide, you'll get what you wrote.

    On the other hand, if you fake the signal which says, basically, "oi, we're doing lots of contracting here, we need more muscle fibers!", you'll get just that. The body doesn't and can't distinguish between the real thing and a faked substance which binds with the same proteins. (Which is why tobacco, marijuana, etc, work, for example. They too bind to some proteins which were meant for something else, but the body can't differentiate between its own canabinoid signals and the THC from hemp.)

    Mind you, it doesn't need to be perfect. If the other signals aren't perturbed, the body will still use its other feedback loops for stuff like building blood vessels there or for how many mitochondria it needs there. So you may have some thick muscles, but without the thick veins of real body builders, since they only have to feed those muscles in an unused state. Which isn't a problem, since, well, they do get as much oxygen there as they actually need. You might get faster tired than a real athlete, as a result, though.

    But anyway, to cut this rant short and actually answer your question: yes. It would very much help with that.

    --
    A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
    1. Re:Not necessarily by Conspiracy_Of_Doves · · Score: 1

      What if you mimicked the chemicals for producing bigger muscles AND the chemicals for producing bigger/more blood vessels?

    2. Re:Not necessarily by Reziac · · Score: 1

      I have a different problem. I have naturally very low muscle mass (I always look like a roadkill, even tho I'm not as thin as I look) and it takes more than the usual amount of exercise to build it up, plus when I'm doing real physical work I use an unghodly amount of calories (almost can't eat enough to keep up). Occurs to me that if this new drug works, it might balance out my situation and let me maintain normal muscle mass via merely normal exercise. Dunno what it would do with the energy deficit, tho.

      --
      ~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
    3. Re:Not necessarily by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Inconceivable!

    4. Re:Not necessarily by gmuslera · · Score: 1

      That is a good problem for "powerups". Taking in account an isolated signal to make an individual change, instead of the "real" way that takes a whole orchestra of signals to make a somewhat balanced change. As you point, you can build muscle mass but not the blood vessels to feed it, or maybe could hit badly the hearth or other parts of the body somewhat influenced by that growing (if not directly influenced by the "signal" as undesidered side effect yet to be found).

      But if there are no side effects to worry about, and building muscle this way dont put us in a situation where the body cant handle it, would be nice.

      Too bad that if is that good, won't be cheap (even if the materials are cheap, markets will drive it to the expensive side).

    5. Re:Not necessarily by Amisinthe · · Score: 2, Interesting

      On the other hand, if you fake the signal which says, basically, "oi, we're doing lots of contracting here, we need more muscle fibers!", you'll get just that.

      Yes and no. In addition to chemical signals which move raw materials into place to construct new muscle, you also rely on physical damage to the muscles that tell normal housekeeping cells to clean up, and begin laying new tissue (unless you have not finished puberty). This new tissue is (hopefully) bigger and therefore stronger.

      The article didn't go into much detail, and they keep referring to muscle "tone", which is really a different thing than raw muscle. I'm still skeptical of the use of such a drug unless it is accompanied by actual exercise and used as simply a stimulant to improved muscle creation and repair.

    6. Re:Not necessarily by geekoid · · Score: 1

      Ha, everything in your body is physics!

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    7. Re:Not necessarily by Emperor+Zombie · · Score: 1
      --
      I'm so excited I just made water in my pantaloons!
  31. Doubt it will fix obesity. by tthomas48 · · Score: 1

    The number of people who can get their stomach stapled and become obese again makes me think there's little hope for a pill to fix the problem for everyone. It will just increase the number of calories one can eat.

    1. Re:Doubt it will fix obesity. by NotBornYesterday · · Score: 1

      It wont fix obesity directly, but it could help build the muscle mass needed to burn off excess calories as part of a proper diet & exercise program. In conjunction with healthy lifestyle changes, I could see this benefiting a lot of people.

      --
      I prefer rogues to imbeciles because they sometimes take a rest.
    2. Re:Doubt it will fix obesity. by mr_mischief · · Score: 1

      Giving someone extra muscle endurance doesn't mean it'll lower their body's fat content at all.

  32. Possibly useful for Astronauts? by forrie · · Score: 1

    Sounds like this may be a useful treatment for astronauts... I wonder, with the issues they face in long-term weightlessness.

  33. why bother detecting these two drugs? by brokeninside · · Score: 1

    I would think using these drugs would only be cheating in sports if they build muscle mass past what can be achieved through exercise. I don't think anyone should really be concerned if they helped athletes get to the same level, just with less effort. My only concern is if use of the drugs can put an athlete at a state beyond what they would have been able to attain.

    1. Re:why bother detecting these two drugs? by notamisfit · · Score: 1

      Doubtful. Maximum muscle mass is typically determined by genetics and testosterone levels. Unless they're combining this into a steroid stack (then again, hardcore bodybuilders will inject everything short of Miracle-Gro in the name of getting as big as possible) I don't see them turning into superhuman freaks.

      --
      Jesus is coming -- look busy!
    2. Re:why bother detecting these two drugs? by CorporateSuit · · Score: 1

      I would think using these drugs would only be cheating in sports if they build muscle mass past what can be achieved through exercise

      That would be true except for one thing: Sports aren't a competition to see who can exercise the most. Points are only awarded for gametime performance, not for practices.

      "Well, the Celtics are up by 3 points, but the Lakers are expected to pull ahead when the refs give them an extra 6 points for spending more time at the gym this week, and eating all their vegetables"

      --
      I am the richest astronaut ever to win the superbowl.
  34. Couch Potato Solution == TENS machine by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    This came out long ago. It's called a TENS machine. Hook yourself up and passively be made into a beef-cake.

  35. Muscle tone or muscle mass? by beanlover · · Score: 5, Informative

    TFA doesn't say the word "tone" unfortunately and there is a difference. My son was born with Hypotonia which is low muscle tone. When I read the summary I got a little excited thinking this could help him out going forward.

    Basically the tone of the muscle is the elasticity of the muscle (this is from memory when the Dr.'s were explaining this to us after he had been diagnosed). It has little to nothing to do with strength and, due to his condition, makes him more prone to hernias and similar problems (he was born with a hernia which was hidden by a communicating hydrocele).

    Those with low muscle tone are more flexible (so add that to your GF requirement list :)). My son can touch his shin bone with the top of his foot (try it) as well as do complete splits, etc.

    We had to get him orthotics to help his ankles support his weight as he grew. This, fortunately (for him...not for us parental units), has NOT slowed him down. He's currently five and very active...loves to be outdoors and catch bugs...but I digress.

    Anyway...thought I'd point that difference out.

    1. Re:Muscle tone or muscle mass? by notamisfit · · Score: 1

      Had they used the word tone, it probably would have been the layman's definition, which typically means "visible muscle definition due to low body fat."

      --
      Jesus is coming -- look busy!
    2. Re:Muscle tone or muscle mass? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That is an important distinction. I saw this and have hopes that it can be used for Prader-Willi syndrome. Some of the characteristics of PWS are a very poor ratio of lean muscle mass to fat, a reduced ability to burn calories (the body would prefer to store the energy as fat as opposed to burning it for fuel), hypotonia and obesity.

      This could be quite beneficial if it can create lean, toned muscle mass. It would have the effects of boosting strength, endurance and increasing the number of calories burned.

      Hopefully with no unpleasant side effects.

    3. Re:Muscle tone or muscle mass? by digitalaudiorock · · Score: 1

      Had they used the word tone, it probably would have been the layman's definition, which typically means "visible muscle definition due to low body fat."

      It kills me when I hear people say "I don't want to put on muscle mass, I just want tone", or "I just want definition" when both terms are just misnomers for more muscle and less fat. It seems virtually nobody I talk to understands this.

  36. Best application isn't for the lazy by Rayeth · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The best use is for bed ridden hospital patients. Being able to have patients maintain muscle mass is one of the most difficult things when treating patients with Chemotherapy for example. This drug will revolutionize the field of physical therapy. Shorter rehab times means less time spent in hospitals and big savings. Every over crowded hospital in America should be investing in this research.

  37. Well Toned Fatties by cipher1024 · · Score: 2, Informative

    The article says that they're using PPAR-delta to change the muscle tissue to the high endurance kind. It also says that one of the things that PPAR-delta can be used for is to instruct cells to burn off fat but it doesn't really say that they're using it for both purposes. So my question is: are we they going to be left with a bunch of people with good muscle tone that are still fat because they didn't exercise? Also, I'd like to point out that we can't even safely make something taste sweet. Why would anyone think something that has this sweeping effects like this is going to be safe?

  38. Here's the Cell article by nbauman · · Score: 4, Informative

    Real geeks read Cell (with pictures)

    DOI: 10.1016/j.cell.2008.06.051

    http://www.cell.com/content/article/fulltext?uid=PIIS0092867408008386

    AMPK and PPARÎ Agonists Are Exercise Mimetics

    The benefits of endurance exercise on general health make it desirable to identify orally active agents that would mimic or potentiate the effects of exercise to treat metabolic diseases. Although certain natural compounds, such as reseveratrol, have endurance-enhancing activities, their exact metabolic targets remain elusive. We therefore tested the effect of pathway-specific drugs on endurance capacities of mice in a treadmill running test. We found that PPARÎ/Î agonist and exercise training synergistically increase oxidative myofibers and running endurance in adult mice. Because training activates AMPK and PGC1α, we then tested whether the orally active AMPK agonist AICAR might be sufficient to overcome the exercise requirement. Unexpectedly, even in sedentary mice, 4 weeks of AICAR treatment alone induced metabolic genes and enhanced running endurance by 44%. These results demonstrate that AMPK-PPARÎ pathway can be targeted by orally active drugs to enhance training adaptation or even to increase endurance without exercise.

    1. Re:Here's the Cell article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Does anyone have a mirror of the original full text Cell article? The link in the parent post no longer shows the full text, but redirects to an abstract.

  39. Epic...fail by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yeah, this may work as advertised. Taking a DECA & DURABOLIN steroid stack (I am a jock & nerd) will build muscle without weight lifting. That does not mean it is good for you. Also, as I saw on the news last night it *only* improves endurance (not the dirty kind). Overall health as of now did not seem to be effected.

  40. Performance Enhancing Nightmare by mpapet · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Instead of ignoring the facts regarding drugs and basing your beliefs on ignorance, there are a HUGE list of issues that arise as a result of ignoring pharmacology in sport.

    *Minor league versions of the sport are then required to take drugs. Impossible! you exclaim. The minors are for preparing/selecting for the majors. Part of your preparation now includes pharmacology because your performance will not vaguely resemble professional level performances without them.

    *The system that feeds the minor league system is then required to take drugs. Pharmacology driven performances become the norm. How do you maintain a boundary between pharma/no pharma performances?

    Very quickly this will become an issue of children taking performance enhancing drugs, which is already happening. Impossible! Well, then please explain how EXACTLY high school -> college football(u.s.) players balloon in size and weight in less than 1 year? And then the next jump from college to pro creates more impossible body metrics.

    If you can't tollerate my complex reasoing, then look at sports pharma as a way to fix every game played. I can pick winners and losers by giving one team pharma X and giving the other pharma Y. I can pick a World Series winner at the beginning of the season just that easily. Impossible you say? Well ask Bjarne Riis about doping his way into a Le Tour victory.

    I would like to know what the medical purpose of this pharma is and who is paying for the research. With EPO, there's a legitimate purpose.

    --
    http://www.maxineudall.com/2010/02/should-economists-be-sued-for-malpractice.html
    1. Re:Performance Enhancing Nightmare by Crazyswedishguy · · Score: 1

      I can pick winners and losers by giving one team pharma X and giving the other pharma Y.

      Easy! Pharma Y = cyanide

      --
      This space up for sale.
    2. Re:Performance Enhancing Nightmare by robertjw · · Score: 1

      Very quickly this will become an issue of children taking performance enhancing drugs, which is already happening. Impossible! Well, then please explain how EXACTLY high school -> college football(u.s.) players balloon in size and weight in less than 1 year? And then the next jump from college to pro creates more impossible body metrics.

      "Children" (I think you meant teenagers and high school athletes) shouldn't take steroids, not for any moral reasons, but because they aren't needed and can be harmful. Most high school athletes have tons of Testosterone in their system, don't really need more. The jump in size over a year between highschool and college is easy to explain. They are 18. Any healthy 18 year old man who trains properly can put on a HUGE amount of mass in less than a year.

      What is happening is parents are giving their kids HGH to make sure they get as tall and big as possible while they are growing. Is this wrong as well? Is it OK if it's parent and doctor sanctioned?

      Steroids are most effective on men who are past their sexual prime. That's why you see guys like Barry Bonds, Mark McGwire and Jose Canseco being suspected or admitting to juicing. You don't need it as much at 20 as you do at 40.

      If you can't tollerate my complex reasoing, then look at sports pharma as a way to fix every game played. I can pick winners and losers by giving one team pharma X and giving the other pharma Y. I can pick a World Series winner at the beginning of the season just that easily. Impossible you say? Well ask Bjarne Riis about doping his way into a Le Tour victory.

      This is absolutely not true. If it were I GUARANTEE you every major sports franchise would be doping their players to the gills. Training, coaching, technique, work ethic, natural talent and any other number of factors work into winning a sports championship. You seriously think Bjarne Riis was the only one doping on the tours he won?

      Drugs are no bigger indicator of success than any other factor. Can you tell me the winner of this year's Super Bowl based on what team has the most talent? The highest salary? The biggest players? The 'best' coach? The best work ethic? In fact, the team that had the 'best' coach, a serious work ethic, great talent, and was likely using lots of steroids, if I know Bill Belichik's attitude on winning and cheating, actually lost to the New York Giants in the Super Bowl. Drugs have an impact, but not nearly as much as you seem to think.

    3. Re:Performance Enhancing Nightmare by mr_mischief · · Score: 1

      In high school, athletes are still growing. Men typically continue to grow some into their early to mid 20s.

      It's easy with the right training regimen to gain 40 pounds of mostly muscular body weight in a year. College and pro athletes are told what to eat more by coaches and trainers interested in their performance and less by their parents who are just trying to run a household.

      Much of the difference in size between high school athletes and college athletes is by selection. Much of the size difference between college and pro football or basketball is also by selection. The strongest get chosen from lower level of football for higher levels. The tallest get chosen for basketball. The rest go on to do other things. These levels of sport are very competitive and you're only seeing the guys on the field or court who made the cut.

  41. Hrmm by The+Living+Fractal · · Score: 1

    I didn't take the pill yet, so I don't have the energy to RTFA.. but.. can someone support my laziness and tell me if this somehow gets around the problem of making the heart grow in size so that it no longer fits in the chamber, thus causing more stress on the heart, thus leading to that state known as 'death'?

    --
    I do not respond to cowards. Especially anonymous ones.
  42. You Won't Look Sexy by OldMiner · · Score: 3, Informative

    What this researcher has done is found a way to easily convert one type of muscle fiber "fast twitch" into a different kind "slow twitch" with a drug. The balance of these fibers makes the difference between someone who is decent at sprinting and someone who is decent at a marathon. Normally, training your muscles from fast twitch to slow twitch takes a long training regiment. Primarily, what has been contributed here is a better understanding of the underlying biochemistry. See this article on building muscle.

    But note, this isn't going to make you healthier inherently. It'll just make it easier to do longer term, load-bearing workouts without getting tired as easily. You will still get winded just as easily. You will still have to sweat. Your legs will just tell you to stop a little later than normal.

    --
    You like splinters in your crotch? -Jon Caldara
  43. Muscles only half the battle by The+Clockwork+Troll · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Muscles don't matter very much if you don't have the neurological conditioning to make use of them.

    It would be like having a 1000W amplifier with incorrectly set gain or an uncontrolled input voltage.

    --

    There are no karma whores, only moderation johns
  44. A1C4R 4 CH34P!1! by Khashishi · · Score: 1

    True, to a limit. But at some price point, the drug will have to consider competition from cheap knockoffs on the internet.

  45. Im expecting lots of side-effects by peter303 · · Score: 1

    We are talking about an ancient and fundamental metabolic subsystem in all eucharyote life for the past billion years. I suspect tinkering with it will affect lots of things. Thats why dieting is so difficult in an environment of plenty - hunger is such basic drive of life.

  46. Health Consequences to Play by dunc78 · · Score: 1

    I believe the problem is that there are health consequences associated with steroids. So if baseball gets to the point you suggest, I basically have to be willing to accept the adverse health consequences of steroids in order to play baseball competitively.

  47. Re: The real reason for no Year of Linux? by TaoPhoenix · · Score: 1

    You mean this is why MS won all these years?

    Viagra
    Apple Inc.'s entire product line
    Sam E
    Chronic Body Odor Support by Herbal Extracts Plus

    --
    My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
  48. hard questions by Khashishi · · Score: 1

    At some point in the near future, humanity is going to have to ask itself, should we be taking drugs to improve our abilities for non-medical reasons? Is there anything morally wrong with better life through chemistry? If so, what?

    1. Re:hard questions by Sebilrazen · · Score: 1

      At some point in the near future, humanity is going to have to ask itself, should we be taking drugs to improve our abilities for non-medical reasons? Is there anything morally wrong with better life through chemistry? If so, what?

      You're describing "Brave New World" by Aldous Huxley. We live in the future.

      --
      "There are no facts, only interpretations." --Friedrich Nietzsche.
  49. Starting an exercise regimen is hard by Culture20 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    so I'd love to take a pill to jump-start me into a condition where I could do 30 pushups and feel fine instead of 10-15 pushups and have my arms feel like rubber. I always end up quitting because I feel like I can't exercise "good enough"

    1. Re:Starting an exercise regimen is hard by smoker2 · · Score: 1

      How is a pill going to stop you being lazy ? You quit because you are lazy, not because you can't exercise well enough.
      Try doing 10 pushups a day for a week. The next week, do 15 pushups a day, the week after do 30 a day (you'll find it easy). After 4 or 5 weeks, you'll find that you have to force yourself to stop at 40 pushups because it is so easy to sail right past. I know, I've done it. Within 2 months you can piss 100 pushups, and still have energy left for more exercise. you can't jump straight to 30 per day because your body isn't capable of it, pill or no pill. It is not mind over matter, it is building endurance. Without endurance you're wasting your time, and the exercise is pointless.
      There are many drugs that make you feel better mentally, very few, if any, actually make you physically stronger.

  50. We all know by vimm · · Score: 0

    There's no such thing as a free lunch.

    A free lunch without the calories? now youre just kidding yourself.

  51. Already exsists = Dexadrine by citylivin · · Score: 1

    This pill already exsists.. Its called dexedrine, otherwise known as speed. Meth isnt a bad "exercise pill" either, providing you get it pure enough so the impurities dont drive you insane.

    The fact that its not at all healthy to take drugs for something that you should be able to accomplish yourself should be considered. Exercise isnt just about losing weight, you would probably also have to take anti depressants and a whole host of other pills to get the same benefits that exercise accrues.

    --
    As a potential lottery winner, I totally support tax cuts for the wealthy
    1. Re:Already exsists = Dexadrine by mr_mischief · · Score: 1

      Neurostimulators and drugs which cause the expression of certain proteins within the muscle are two very different things. You might be able to achieve some of the same results, but the methods and likely side effects are completely different.

  52. You forgot.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    the fact that exercise has a positive effect on moods. Aerobic exercise has been proven to be as effective as taking an anti-depressant and in some cases, even better.

  53. Pinky... by aztracker1 · · Score: 1

    Are you pondering what I'm pondering...

    --
    Michael J. Ryan - tracker1.info
  54. I invented the Capsaicin suppository by kanweg · · Score: 1

    It improves on good-old pepper.

    Bert

  55. You can buy it right now by Yahma · · Score: 3, Interesting
    You can buy Aicar right now, there is no need to wait for it to be synthesized or mass produced.

    Aicar is a common research chemical, and all it takes is a click to purchase some Aicar. The price may prevent most people from using is as a nutritional supplement though..

    1. Re:You can buy it right now by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I tried yesterday. The sale went through, but I got an e-mail today saying that the sale will be canceled. Caymanchem.com will not sell to individuals

  56. it's a brave new world... by andre3001 · · Score: 1

    All of this reminds me of a livestock study I read in Vet school, where pigs were genetically engineered to be more muscular in order to maximize the proportion of lean meats to sell to the public. Problem is, it came with some very bizarre side-effects, including the propensity for heart attacks. Any loud noise, and 20 pigs would drop dead in an instant. Seriously, you couldn't yell at the pig. The project was dropped because it wasn't very cost-effective. I wonder what kind of crazy side effects this pill would have, and worse yet, will people really care? I mean, how many men and women were willing to tolerate "uncontrollable bowel movements" in order to try the latest diet pill? The "brave new world" aspect to all of this is really creeping me out.

  57. Will this work for nasa in space as a way to keep by Joe+The+Dragon · · Score: 1

    Will this work for nasa in space as a way to keep fit in long space flight.

  58. I knew Science would listen by xrayspx · · Score: 1

    Dear Science,

    I'd love to be muscular and have better endurance, but I will never be willing to quit smoking and exercise, please get on this for me.

    Sincerely,

    Every /. Nerd

    I knew Science would have my answer.

  59. Hail Hydra by linuxelf · · Score: 1

    Yay, one step closer to the Super Soldier Serum. Hail Hydra.

    --
    - "That's just the kind of fuzzy-headed liberal thinking that leads to being eaten."
    1. Re:Hail Hydra by mr_mischief · · Score: 1

      One more way to make one country's soldiers able to carry more and run farther than another's. Hail Malthus!

  60. Medically useful for those who need it by Howitzer86 · · Score: 1

    I imagine this could prove useful for treating muscular dystrophy and GSD.

  61. A bit OT, but... by Nerdposeur · · Score: 1

    False. Despite what the media would have you think and what (some) women say - very few women are looking for a guy who is a girl. They want a guy.

    I think you've got a point, though I would add that being perceptive of another person's needs and emotions makes one a good mate. Being overly emotional doesn't necessarily help.

    My wife appreciates that I listen to her feelings, but she also appreciates that I will take action when she has a problem that needs solving - that's the protective, "masculine" side. I don't just cry with her about it.

  62. Please tag this with "I am legend" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It sure sounds like the movie. Krippke Virus will be Evans Pill instead.

  63. As someone who appreciates their luck - by RexDevious · · Score: 1

    I must agree. I have been very fortunate in the weight/muscle department. I'm a programmer, I don't excercise, I smoke too much, drink too much, and consist on a diet that would put most people in the hospital. I'm also 40, and have been treating my body with borderline contempt since... roughly age 8. Yet I look like this:

    www.RexDevious.com

    Other people I've met or know have to struggle constantly with their weight and muscle tone, and still fall well short of their goals. I can't even fathom what they must go through, the constant burden of watching everything they eat, the hours at the gym, and what it feels like to still be so unhappy with their appearance.

    While I take my fortunate situation less and less for granted every day - it does seem to suggest that there *is* a way for weight and muscle issues to not be the enormous pain in the ass it is for so very many people. And no, the fact that this wouldn't be a problem for people if only they were impoverished does not make their suffering less real. I've been there myself, and still wished that those who had body image problems *and* money didn't have hurtful metabolisms.

    So bring on the discoveries that help! The more we learn about controlling our bodies, the better.

    Not to mention of course all the people who simply have no "natural" way of achieving these results. I've got a sister with MG - she can't exercise because her tendons are so shot they'll literally detach if she tries. I myself have Rheumatoid Arthritis, and am very limited in what exercises I could do if I needed to.

    Kudos Paul, you've got the right attitude about preventing needless suffering.

  64. Basewars by Phairdon · · Score: 1

    In addition to the cybernetic cannon for the pitcher, I gave all my baserunners a laser sword and battled the second baseman when I wanted to steal second.

    http://classicgaming.gamespy.com/View.php?view=GameMuseum.Detail&id=306

    1. Re:Basewars by Digital+End · · Score: 1

      This is sounding more and more like blern-ball

      --
      Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart, he dreams himself your master.
  65. For all those who ran and worked out... by elrous0 · · Score: 1

    Dear all you assholes who said I should get off the couch,

    While you were running, sweating, panting, and generally making yourself miserable--I was playing videogames. And soon, for all that hard work, you'll be in no better shape than I am.

    SO WHO'S STUPID NOW, HUH?!?!?!

    Yours truly,
    The guy who had fun while you suffered

    --
    SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
  66. I'm guessing they take cash or charge ... by Krishnoid · · Score: 1

    One smart pill, coming right up.

  67. who gives a damn about the athletes by speedtux · · Score: 1

    The doctor in charge of the research is working with sports authorities to develop a test to detect the drugs in athletes.

    I really don't give a damn about the athletes; why shouldn't they take performance enhancing drugs if they like? What difference does it make whether they wreck their bodies with football or with steroids? Anybody who thinks that sports at the competitive level is healthy is dreaming.

    All this handwriting about doping is just about sports money, not the athletes anyway.

    1. Re:who gives a damn about the athletes by mr_mischief · · Score: 1

      It's not about the athletes hurting themselves. It's about them making the competition unable to keep up without likewise hurting themselves and encouraging younger athletes to hurt themselves even more (because younger bodies respond differently, and high school kids don't get well-supervised, professionally-planned steroid programs).

      Just as important as the sports money, don't forget, is the sports book money. If you're doped and nobody knows, you might trash the spread. Nobody likes an angry bookie.

    2. Re:who gives a damn about the athletes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's about them making the competition unable to keep up without likewise hurting themselves and encouraging younger athletes to hurt themselves even more (because younger bodies respond differently, and high school kids don't get well-supervised, professionally-planned steroid programs).

      Didn't you read what I said? If you become a performance athlete, you are trashing your body anyway. And if younger athletes take steroids, it's their parents' responsibility.

      Just as important as the sports money, don't forget, is the sports book money.

      Didn't you read what I said? I said it's about the money.

  68. What, no WhatCouldPossiblyGoWrong tag? by analogkid76 · · Score: 1

    Regardless of any other side effects this could have, it occurs to me once again that we're basically sabotaging our own physical evolution. How does survival of the fittest apply if there's no particular genetic requirement for being more fit than another?
    I suppose in the future, our evolution will instead be tied to the amount of financial resources one has at their disposal, turning survival of the fittest into survival of the wealthiest.

  69. Old News by RobDude · · Score: 1

    What's the big deal?

    They've been able to do this since the 50s. Right now, there are LOTS of different drugs you can take that, with no change in your exercise or diet regime will make you stronger and leaner.

  70. Drugs *always* have side effects by erice · · Score: 1

    If this drug works as advertised & has no dangerous side effects, why wouldn't *everyone* including athletes take it? I realize that this would be an unfair advantage in the present, but I'm talking about after 20+ years of testing.

    It is the inevitable outcome of making a global change to a complex system. Even if all this drug does is globally increase muscle tone (unlikely), then you have to be concerned about increased muscle tone in places where you don't want it. Like the smooth muscles that control movement in your digestive tract. Hello constipation/diarrhea.

  71. Not "self-righteous"; tribe-preserving by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If we existed in a world where nothing had costs or consequences, then that's great. For example, if my .sig said "cake!" or "ball!", there would be (basically) no consequence.

    But we do live in a world where things have costs and consequences. Even if a perfect muscle-pill was developed today, we've all grown up in the old world. Cake is relatively expensive to make, and (in excess) is not great for your health. Basketball is good for your health, and is really cheap.

    Everybody who's sitting around on the couch, weighing 350 pounds, and eating cake all day, does so with the knowledge that the cake is expensive, and worse for their health (and others will likely pick up part or all of the bill), and yet they do it anyway.

    The human body has had millions of years of evolution. It's not perfect, but its systems work pretty darn well most of the time, with zero downtime. Now, basketball and cake are modern inventions, but one is a lot closer to what our bodies were built for.

    Decadence is not what we're built for. It's not what any biological organism is built for: tough conditions make awesome animals, physically and mentally.

    The change here is a fundamental biological one: make life physically easy (sit around eating cake, and the occasional pill), but reap the benefits of a tough life -- its polar opposite.

    There are really two reasons here. First, there's a much higher cost to society if we consist of cake-and-pill-eaters. And not just because it's more expensive to make cakes and pills, but because a society of people who depend on magic from others, instead of personal responsibility, is not a strong society. (What happens when you're presented with a problem for which nobody has invented a magic pill yet? If you don't have the willpower to put down the fork, how are you going to do anything else? I think it's no coincidence that you don't see any 350-pound CEOs of successful companies.)

    Second, the ??? Principle: when something costs us, we justify it. This is like inventing Caltech-in-a-Can, and then chugging a 6-pack in front of a Caltech senior 2 days before finals week. Or "Yo-Yo Ma the Nasal Spray", and then upstaging him at a concert.

    I'm not sure these are unrelated. It seems plausible to me that we've got the ingrained "don't cheat" rule because our ancestors know in their bones it doesn't work. A caveman who discovers a dead mammoth is the man of the month, but a caveman who can hunt small game year after year is the one whose genes you want. Lotto winners aren't the richest people today, either.

    Fortunately, it probably won't be cheap and side-effect free, so we won't have anything to worry about (for at least a decade or two). Like breast implants: even when we figured out how to make them so they don't explode, they don't have the look-and-feel of the real thing. I can imagine somebody who took muscle pills to have big, strong muscles, but still not appear as balanced as a bodybuilder or as effective as a martial artist. He'll look totally fake: a cakeeater.

  72. side effects include by Danzigism · · Score: 1
    Dry mouth

    Urinary retention

    Blurred vision

    Constipation

    Sedation (can interfere with driving or operating machinery)

    Sleep disruption

    Headache

    Nausea

    Gastrointestinal disturbance/diarrhea

    Abdominal pain

    Inability to achieve an erection

    Inability to achieve an orgasm (men and women)

    Loss of libido

    Agitation

    Anxiety

    heh just kidding, but it's always at the end of the commercial for any new super duper amazing drug!

    --
    *plays the Apogee theme song music*
  73. This is going to help by Zwicky · · Score: 1

    ... this guy out soooo much.

    (C'mon, laugh, it's funny! You were all thinking it. Don't lie...)

    --
    "Three eyes are better than one" -- Lieutenant Columbo
  74. Microsoft only needed 2 generations to make a Zune by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 1

    ???

    Man, that is like saying, "People found it relatively easy to build an airplane... AFTER the Wright brothers invented the fucking thing!"

  75. Ugh... by Hassman · · Score: 1

    Only in America would everyone see the "do nothing, get results" angle. WTF is wrong with the media today? This story comes along and what is the angle? What is the headline? Be a couch potato and get stronger. *sigh*

    HELLO!!! The use of this pill (provided it actually works) has nothing to do with dieting or not exercising, but has everything to do with recovering patience. Say I'm 80 and I broke my hip in a fall. Normally I wouldn't have a chance in hell at rehabilitation...but with a solution like this all of a sudden me walking again isn't out of the question.

    Jane Doe has been in a coma for X months. Her body is atrophied. The road to recovery has just gotten a hell of a lot shorter and cheaper.

    John Smith has ha major surgery. Maybe a heart attack or something. Does this pill mean his heart will be stronger? Less likely of a repeat visit to the hospital?

    It is lame that all the media and general public see in this is the diet, vanity aspect.

    I feel sad for humanity.

    --
    -Mark
    Dovie'andi se tovya sagain.
  76. You know this is too good to be true... by russotto · · Score: 1

    ...because if it weren't, you'd be able to go to the grocery store, pick up a case of Ben and Jerry's and a box of exercise pills, eat both, and become more fit as a result. The universe just isn't that nice a place.

  77. Re:Microsoft only needed 2 generations to make a Z by Mike89 · · Score: 1

    Man, that is like saying, "People found it relatively easy to build an airplane... AFTER the Wright brothers invented the fucking thing!"

    Yeah.. that'd be a good analogy if Apple invented MP3 players..