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Afghan Student Gets 20 Years For Blasphemy
Invisible Pink Unicorn writes "Despite nationwide public support for his initial death sentence, a three-judge appeals court has reduced the sentence of Sayed Parwez Kambakhsh to 20 years in prison. Kambakhsh was charged with circulating an article on women's rights that he found online. From the article: 'Family members have said Kambakhsh was beaten and threatened with death until he signed a confession and that local journalists who expressed support for him were warned they would be arrested if they persisted.'"
It is really tough to consider that these flagrant transgressions still go on in todays environment.
This is not a viral sig. Copy it at your peril.
He wasn't really charged for the blasphemy, it's because he was very critical of the government and some of their corrupt friends, and they found something useful to charge him with.
"Kambakhsh's journalist brother, Yaqoub Ibrahimi, has said he believes the blasphemy charges were a pretext and that Ibrahimi was the authorities' real target because of articles he wrote about abuses by local warlords and militias."
They beat a confession out of him
Producing most of the worlds heroin is just fine and dandy.
Prediction: The real iPhone killer is going to be sex robots from Japan. Think about it.
Tell me why we're supporting Afghanistan again? How is the current government any better than the Taliban?
Libera te ex Inferis!
All he said was "That piece of halibut was good enough for Jehovah".
It is better in the same ways that the Taliban was better than the Russians. And the Russians were better than the Germans. Should I keep going?
I'm very interested to know who the germans were better than.
I just can't figure it out.
Unless you count Napoleon ... Yeah, well, no, I can't say that the germans where better than frenchs under Napoleon.
He had a baseball bat, and I was tied to a chair. Pissing him off was the smart thing to do. - Max Payne
Should I keep going?
Yeah. Who were the Germans better than?
Because they are our advocates fer Freedom(TM) and Democracy(TM) and they are fightin' terra!
That sooner or later the complete opposite will happen in this country in that you won't be able to speak about religion at all without going to jail.
Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.
Pssst... It's the Democrats!
A) They're not forcing men and boys to grow beards
B) Girls and women are allowed to attend schools
C) They're not blowing or destroying religious icons from other religions or artifacts from 2,000 years ago
D) Roads, an electric grid and sewer systems are being (very slowly) built
E) Every person who wants to vote is allowed to
F) And most importantly, women are not being forced to wear burkhas if they don't want to
Granted this current ruling is nonsense and Kharzai knows it, but he is very weak and doesn't have the backing to overturn the verdict.
I'm not saying the current government is perfect. Far from it. But to compare this government, which is working with other countries to attempt to undo nearly 40 years of war and strife, to the Taliban is disingenuous. It will take, at a minimum, ten years to begin to change the mindset of the people, specifically the warlords and the men, to allow greater freedoms.
We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
This would be happening in America if Christians had their way.
There is no "-1 offended" or "-1 you don't agree with me" mod options for a reason.
How is the current government any better than the Taliban?
Mega Evil (former) vs Evil-lite (current).
Everyone knows the less evil is better. However, if you think that any evil is bad, I'll agree. Lets become anarchists without any government evil at all, because we don't have any government.
Here's a little cultural lesson for you, some places in the world are "Not Nice" to your way of thinking or life, and visa versa. The whole "multicultural" model says that we can't "judge" their culture as it is equal to our own.
So quit being so sensitive about how they run things over there. I'm sure you wouldn't want them coming over here and putting all your women in burkahs, would you? / sarcasm-lite
Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
Good thing Canadian troops have been dying in Afghanistan year after year to defend and support this regime. It would be a shame if we let radicals take it over, or if it became corrupt, or if Afghanis went back to growing poppies.
Nope. Everything is hunky dory. Stay the course!
I've got a bad attitude and karma to burn. Go ahead. Mod me down.
It's really AMERICA where everything is bad! Yeah, take that DAD!
This is madness!
But at this point you have to ask, was the Taliban really better than the Soviets? They didn't have a lot of tolerance for religious bullshit.
But then, playing an historical what-if game is pretty useless either way. Better to discuss what could be done now.
This is the government my countrymen are fighting and dying for?
No thanks.
A government is a body of people notably ungoverned - AC
Really? Human rights don't apply to everyone? That means we can kill them then, right? I mean, for real killing, not a village here or there, but all of them. Why not?
Obviously we must fight to overthrow this oppressive government that we set up!
SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
In other news, Sony corp announced today that they will be laying off every female employed by the company. In a press release, a spokesman for Sony explained that this is part of their ongoing efforts to be less offensive to culturally sensitive peoples around the world.
Sony has also announced plans to eventually halt any product lines that require electricity to operate.
Haha. The germans were better than the germans. I probably shouldn't have posed the question for me to keep going...
Fighting terrorism was just a bull shit story to sway public opinion towards an Afghan invasion. The real reason that George "head up his ass" Bush invaded Afghanistan was so that the oil companies could build a gas pipeline through the country. The current regime there Hamid Karzai is a puppet for the oil industry and has been on their payroll. A search on Wikipedia also suggests this notion but is a somewhat controversial subject. Although anyone with any brains can see it's true. Even the people of Afghanistan want to kill him as a traitor.
I wouldn't be surprised if the truth came out that the Bush crime family has been trafficking Afghan heroin into the USA aboard CIA run C130 transports like they did during the Reagan/Bush Nicaraguan/Contra secret war, only that time it was cocaine.
I shit thee not! The Bush family are some of the most greedy and corrupt cock-suckers on the planet.
"Suppose you were an idiot...and suppose you were a member of Congress...but I repeat myself." Mark Twain
Seriously. What does this have to do with "your rights online" or news for nerds?
Slashdot: Failed Car Analogies. Amateur Lawyering. Anecdote Battles.
I mean where's the prophet in that?
So just because it didn't turn into Utopia overnight, you are ready to call the whole effort a bust?
Jees, a lot of gains have been made. In fact a tremendous amount - especially in the area of gender rights. This is just one cherry-picked example of something that hasn't gotten better.
Then they could have just claimed the moral high ground.
Oh, wait...
Ronald Reagan was a nitwit politician!
The Global War on Terror is a crock!
Enough with the "maverick" bullshit!
So yeah, there is nothing new here. It doesn't excuse what is happening but all the same I'm not surprised. Politicians and governments are the same everywhere. Whether they are Muslims, Christians, Hindu or atheists does not matter.
C) They're not blowing or destroying religious icons from other religions or artifacts from 2,000 years ago
Damn that's a hot typo. I know most people frown on blowing religious icons, though.
In Salem Massachusetts. They're more civilized in Afghanistan.
How was the Taliban better than the Russians?
Say what you will about the Soviet Union, but compared to the Taliban, they were huge humanitarians.
"It will take, at a minimum, ten years to begin to change the mindset of the people, specifically the warlords and the men, to allow greater freedoms."
You are very optimistic if you think their mindset will change soon. They have been this way since the times of Alexander the Great. Probably it will take a minimum of 10 generations.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Family members have said Kambakhsh was beaten and threatened with death until he signed a confession and that local journalists who expressed support for him were warned they would be arrested if they persisted.
Sounds like the RIAA/MPAA were at work here to me . . .
Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
Isn't it about time we just scorched that shithole once and for all? Then our friends and family could come home.
Despite being human beings, someone please name one redeeming feature of afghani people?
As far as we know, womens' rights is not blasphemy. Charging it as such just puts another peg in the 'cons' column.
They're using their grammar skills there.
Whoever rated this off-topic needs to get a clue.
Persecution due to religion or criticism of the government is nothing new and its naive to think this single story is newsworthy. It goes on all over the world everyday and there is nothing special or interesting about this case.
The only thing mildly interesting about this is that the values this far off country holds are very different than we slashdot readers are accustomed to. This is an article made for Fark, not for the Slashdot frontpage.
Burn kharma, burn.
Overclockers
F-
Read again for better comprehension. See me after class.
The Jews? *ducks*
in the real world, all anarchist being equal some anarchists are more equal than others, to paraphrase you know whom.
The day that the humans become extinct the animals will have the biggest party ever
G) They no longer execute you if they catch you producing heroin.
Article 19. Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers.
Seems this guy was "seek[ing...] information" and the Universal Declaration would apply.
Does anyone know, is Afghanistan a signatory to the Universal Declaration of Human Rights?
If not, should they not be, er, persuaded to become a signatory? We do, as it happens, have a number of persuaders currently resident in that country
Sadly, this argumentation is common on Slashdot when the topic isn't free speech or DRM circumvention. Oh the different standards.
Let this be a reminder that laws can be stupid and evil, and do not define right and wrong.
\u262D = \u5350
"Tell me why we're supporting Afghanistan again? How is the current government any better than the Taliban?"
They aren't, AFAIK, hosting Al Qaeda operatives. That's all we really need of them, which is why they went undisturbed for so long.
As far as "better" for Afghans, it isn't sane to expect them to ever have a government that is decent by Western standards. They were a tribalist, primitive, brutal Muslim society before European colonials arrived, and they'll be that after the Coalition puts down the White Man's Burden and leaves exhausted.
There is no sporting, UN-compliant way to defeat such people and we should cut a deal where possible.
"This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
A) They're not forcing men and boys to grow beards
This is the top reform of the government?
I have heard of attrocities like this in Afghanistan for a very long time. Horrible things done to women, historical art destroyed and all manner of illustrations proving that their religious belief and practice is simply inhuman, inhumane and just plain wrong. And when the US first invaded Afghanistan I thought it was stupid, but MAYBE something good could come of this... the whole idea of ousting the evils of their muslim laws and brutalities, bringing in democracy... waving American flags! I admit I was hoping for a silver lining all though the black cloud of war.
So now, not only are young service men with good hearts and intention being WASTED, KILLED and otherwise DESTROYED for a meaningless cause, the crap that was going on before is still going on in Afghanistan. They are still brutal muslims abusing and killing women and anyone who might try to defend them.
So why the heck are US troops still occupying Afghanistan if this still is still going to be allowed?
My sane side says we need to leave Iraq and Afghanistan YESTERDAY and try our best to look the other way while all these things are happening. It does no good for us to have a closer look at it and do nothing to stop it.
My insane side says we need to bomb their land until it turns into solid glass and nothing can live there ever again.
With this single news story, the last remnant of hope that just MAYBE something good and decent may have come from the US invasion and occupation of these foreign sovereign nations just died.
We need to pull all of our military sons and daughters out of there because they are not support ANYONE's freedom. Not theirs and not ours. Their presence makes people hate the US more and more which ultimately makes us far less safe than ever before.
What's more, we're in a tremendous fight for our own democratic republic and the integrity of the nation's constitution. "Looks what's going on over there!" says Cheney and Company, "Let's spend all of your money on that cause over there because you are scared! Pay no attention to the new laws and police we are creating or anything else we are doing... we are trying to secure your freedom."
If it can't be stopped, then we're all better off dead.
Well, you don't have free speech in Canada. The High Court sided with the Human Rights Tribunals.
The head of one of the tribunals was quoted as dismissing freedom of speech as "an American concept".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Human_Rights_Commission_free_speech_controversies
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_complaints_against_Maclean's_magazine
They have gone after people for quoting improper comments, QUOTING not actually saying themselves
They are going after a comedian for dealing with hecklers who happened to be lesbian.
One of the ex-members of the tribunals would go on web sites, make inflammatory comments, and then sue the web site for having those comments on their site.
You can start bitching about other countries, when you have come back to the Humanist ideals that served Western Civilization so well.
Can we expect any less of a theocracy?
Most Muslim countries are, de jure or de facto, theocracies. This makes them basically barbaric.
The US is slowly but surely sliding into that same pit. George Bush won his 2nd election largely on public fears of "activist judges" and "abortion rights" - code words for "liberal democracy."
End of the American Empire? :-(
According to The Bookseller of Kabul, the Taliban were preferable to the Communists in at least one way: Communist soldiers were mostly literate, while Taliban soldiers were not. So when the Communists raided Sultan Khan's bookshop, they knew what was what, and burned anything that was not state-approved. But when the Taliban soldiers raided his bookshop, they didn't know which books were which, and didn't want to risk burning something holy, so instead they only burned books with pictures in them (because making images of living things is haram, ritually forbidden.) So Sultan Khan could save his books from the Taliban by pasting index cards over the pictures; that didn't work against the Communists. Look for a silver lining where you can, I guess.
There are many things that even supposedly free societies will not allow to be discussed.
The term for that is 'taboo'. It existed in societies from the very beginning, still exist today, and considering human nature, will still exist in the future in one form or another.
As George Carlin said, you don't have rights. You have privileges. Privileges that can be revoked at any time.
Absolutely! Rights are only rights as long as they are upheld by the mighty. Occasionally, they help the not-so-powerful average guys, but usually, rights are just one manifestation of the current balance of power in a society. Just look at the rights the US grants to the content industry w.r.t. the right the US grants to grannies and 7 year-olds who commited the unpardonable "crime" of copying a bunch of mp3s. Or the rights of big business, banks etc. to get a bailout, w.r.t. the "rights" of broke homeowners to be evicted and thrown on the street.
It's really that simple, but very few people realize it because the harsh truth hurts.
cpghost at Cordula's Web.
Your attitude, that people in Afghanistan don't deserve human rights because they live in a nation which isn't "developed", is paternalistic. That's a fancy social science term which means you think you are superior to people around the world because you happen to have been born in a place where indoor plumbing is commonplace. You are not superior, and in fact, you are also wrong, although those two factoids might not be related.
Before you go around demanding that other people define terms for you, consider reading more.
If you mod me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine.
You suggest that we, the western nations, have no right to tell Afghanistan that it cannot kill or imprison someone for raising political issues. I suggest you flip the coin and look at the other side. If Afghanistan wants the help of the west, then it must accept commonly accepted human rights as part of the package.
If you mod me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine.
i say we kill people who piss us off. i'm tired of being politically correct. considering the other people's culture or worldview. in the final analysis, the world is a hard, brutal place.
I say bomb, rape, and shoot the hell out of people who think we are the heathen satan or whatever they want to call us. they're thinking of doing it to us anyway, so lets do it to them first.
A) They're not forcing men and boys to grow beards
B) Girls and women are allowed to attend schools
C) They're not blowing or destroying religious icons from other religions or artifacts from 2,000 years ago
D) Roads, an electric grid and sewer systems are being (very slowly) built
E) Every person who wants to vote is allowed to
F) And most importantly, women are not being forced to wear burkhas if they don't want to
I would add a few more to your list:
G) People are allowed to listen to music and watch movies
H) Kids are allowed to fly kites
As it happens, there is a somewhat famous case where freedom of speech related tangentially to pedophilia was defended in the United States. (The case involved a suit by the parents of a murdered 10 year old boy, against an organization which apparently advocates a radical alteration of the age of consent, the suit having been brought because it was discovered that one of the two murderers, both adult men, had visited the organization's web site.
Daily Show Reminds Us that NAMBLA is a Joke
Allowing such a suit to proceed would threaten civil discourse. What if the next homicidal whako happens to be a reader of Slate, which published a few articles with more rational discussions of revision to age of consent laws? Rethinking the Age of Consent
You might want to re-check your list. Recently there were several attacks on women not wearing burkhas, and situation with human rights generally is sliding back fast in Afghanistan.
Mostly because NATO forces lost control of large parts of Afghanistan.
What is the ratio of the number of heroine/morphine addicts to tobacco addicts? If there are 500 times more people that are addicted to tobacco than heroin then heroin is more dangerous.
In addition what about the crime rate caused by heroine addicts acquiring the necessary money to satisfy their addiction? I'm also guessing that at least some of that murder rate is directly related to drugs as well.
I'm not saying that your point is wrong its just that the data you give do not back it up.
Oh, yeah, the animals will have a great time at first, but eventually some of them will move into the farm house and decide that they're more equal than the other animals and the less equal animals will post on animal slashdot about how awesome the plants are going to have it when the animals are gone.
I thought the multicultural model was that I could get Shwarma, Souvlaki, Pizza and Chow Mein on the same block.
To get this type of treatment you have to blaspheme a politician.
Such as, suggesting that you sold drugs to Dan Quayle. What ever happened to Brett Kimberlin? And is there any truth to his accusations?
"Brett Kimberlin Says He Was Silenced After Claiming That He Sold Marijuana to a Future Vice President"
http://www.people.com/people/archive/article/0,,20108850,00.html
And ultimately in today's world, your conviction is heavily determined by the public's or more correctly the media's opinion of your guilt.
OJ Simpson?
sorry, but you are wrong. afghanistan was a whole lot more civilized and secular place back then when the soviets were there.
"It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
Does anybody else see a potential plot for Captain Planet here?
I'm very interested to know who the germans were better than.
The Turks.
This is your tax dollars at work people. If you think they're spent wrongly, and you should, complain about it to your representatives. Be vocal about it, and keep reminding the government that this is not what you have in mind when you think about liberating a country.
But it has to be administered by the victim of the crime.
That is, if your weak-ass god can kill me, let him do so. But don't you profess to act on his behalf. Is 'he' so weak-ass that he can't act himself? If so, then he deserves no worship.
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For those who believe in prayer, whatever your faith, pray for him. The power of prayer and faith is amazing and cannot be under-estimated. If there are any other suggestions on how to help Sayed Kambakhsh, please speak up. Meanwhile, we pray.
The New Book That Could Pay You Back -100 Times Over: www.Economtricks.com
We just need to wait until winter when the gorillas freeze...
Awesome furniture, accessories and cabinetry in Santa Rosa, CA: http://humanity-home.com/
Ah. A European troll pretending to be American. How cute.
(It's nice to know that we're not the only ones with a pest problem...)
Most of the drug-related deaths in the US, other than from tobacco and alcohol, are from AIDS, which is spread because the US and state bans on "drug paraphrenalia" lead to needle-sharing.
The second-most common cause of death from illegal drugs is murders, including people in the black market arguing over turf and occasional users robbing people - again, that's the fault of the drug war - you don't see tobacco dealers getting in gunfights very often.
But sometimes, relatively benign drugs like MJ (or more dangerous drugs like heroin and alcohol) can lead to stupid behaviour, and stupidity recapitulates Darwinism all too frequently. On the other hand, unlike alcohol, MJ is more likely to cause you to stay home and order pizza instead of driving out to a bar, so there's some balance.
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
Worst religion ever
Pre-Civil war, when one referred to the US, it was in the form of "The United States are...." After the Civil War, it became "The United States is...." so it seems we thought of the states as sovereign entities, much like the "city states" of Greece. The word "state" itself, actually originally refers to a sovereign entity (e.g. "Secretary of State", "state sponsored terrorism") whereas a province is a dependent subdivision.
-- Political fascism requires a Fuhrer.
Wait for it, it's coming.
Or... or an america pretending to be a european pretending to be an american
I don't know that I agree with the most importantly section - I'd say B, D and E rate above F in terms of importance, but they are all good points.
Wasn't the whole point of the invasion to remove the religious extremists from power in Afghanistan?
:(
Looks like that wasn't the great success Dubya would have is believe.
.
Quidquid Latine dictum sit, altum videtur (anything said in Latin sounds important)
Despite nationwide public support for his initial death sentence... local journalists who expressed support for him were warned they would be arrested if they persisted
I bet the polls and statements that show nationwide public support weren't at all influenced in the same manner that local journalists were!
Other posters are saying that the death sentence is the will of the citizens and not an act of a totalitarian government. They are naive in their doublethink.
I'd call C invalid, because there ain't much left for them to blow up, the Taliban already destroyed the non-Islam artifacts when they were in control.
If they're taking their holy book's rules seriously enough to punish somebody for blasphemy, then I'm betting they'll consider Buddhist statues to be blasphemy against Muhammad or something, and destroy them anyway.
Learn something new.
The US state of Delaware had blasphemy laws until 1968; I don't know if any other states still had them by then. The penalty was N lashes on the whipping post. The laws weren't used very often, though the whipping post got a bit more action, and a court case in 1968 got them both tossed out for obvious reasons like freedom of speech and religion and unacceptability of cruel and unusual punishment.
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
As far as I remember you can in Germany be accused and legally punished for challenging an idea, that for me to quote here would violete Godwin's law.
I'm not saying that such laws are good, but we have them almost everywhere...
I had a long talk with one young Afghani guy, a refuge. He left the country a year after Taliban got licked. He said that Taliban were mad fanatics, but at least with them you knew where you stood (i.e., you knew what you were not supposed to do, and you'd be safe so long as you stick to their rules). When the Northern Alliance warlords took over, they've brought anarchy and chaos, and chances of getting killed or maimed in a random attack or a plain daylight robbery or indiscriminate rape by the NA troops were much higher - which was why he left.
Why are British troops putting their lives on the line and why are the British taxpayer spending their money to defend the Afghans who clearly share none of our values?
Troops out now and let evolution take its course.
Bad analogies are like waxing a monkey with a rainbow.
Ok, these things are good by our own standards, but why should we enforce them on others? if they want to live under a theocracy, I say let them be. Americans liberated themselves, French rebelled by themselves.
No, the real reason for being in Afghanistan is not that we want to make them civilized. There are other places on Earth with similar theocracies, but the west has done nothing about them. The real reason is that Afghanistan is in a strategic position concerning Russia and China.
Didn't the US introduce democracy in Afghanistan? Then why wasn't free speech brought as well? Isn't free speech an essential right in a democracy?
Or was the main reason, perhaps, just to get rid of the Taliban and democracy was just a trendy word that matched the spin?
Sure the Afghan may be reluctant in allowing free speech. Then why did the US bother to pretend to help them? And after retreating, how long before Taliban is back in business in Afghanistan?
IMHO after 9/11 the US had a certain right -which is highly debatable- to terminate terrorist activities in Afghanistan. It would probably have been just as effective to, er, shut down terrorist business. And to repeat when necessary. Cheaper and fairer.
I hadn't the slightest objection to his spending his time planning massacres for the bourgeoisie... (P.G. Wodehouse)
What people forget if that there is equality, no freedom, then the opinion of the public can't be judged.
Remember that this guy was arrested and sentenced to death for speaking against the goverment. So, who would go out on the street to show support for this guy after that clear warning?
To make it simpler to understand. In 1943, would you have expected people to hold a protest vigil to protest the forced deportation of jews, in berlin?
The so called support for this guys sentence is highly suspect when you consider it done in a country where people disagree with the approved opinion are sentenced to death.
Dictatorships REALLY do not function the same way as democracies. Remember this the next time you are stuck behind some silly protest about nothing or affected by a strike. They are the essential tools of freedom. For one small group to be able to annoy the hell out of the majority without fear is what freedom is all about.
I have little doubt that the so called support for this guys sentence is 99% "Hi, we are going to kill this guy for disagreeing with us. Do you agree with us?"
As for US involvement, the US always does this. It goes in with the best intentions but can never understand that those who speak the best english, seem most agreeable and welcome a foreign goverment to bolster their power RARELY are the good guys. The US just doesn't get foreign policy. It is almost as if the entire US population has a blindspot when it comes to the rest of the world.
The same thing happened in Iraq. Contratry to popular opinion in the US, Saddam actually was extremely liberal. Until western pressure forced him to become ever more reliant on religious support. Doesn't mean he was a nice guy, he wasn't. But toppling him doesn't make thing suddenly get better and in many way things got a lot worse.
Gay rights for instance have gone from tolerant to being prosecuted.
The enemy of my enemy doesn't have to be your friend. Neither is your enemy always your worsed enemy. The US just doesn't get this.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
mindset? i live in a post comunist country, almost 20 years, everything looks different but the people have changed very little, 10 years as you say is very very little time, that's what people dont understand, war damages can be cleaned up fast but dictatorship takes a lot longer
So it's blasphemy to deny that the Koran calls for the degradation of woman, but not so to say it calls for public execution and pointless prison sentences? The people who sanctioned this really do have a sub-optimal grasp of reality, proportion and even apparently their own professed religion.
Quarter million americans. divvy that total up between them and you have a Brazillian-level of foreign aid.
If you add the EU countries together you get about 40% more people and MUCH more than 40% greater foreign aid.
Merkins are stingy.
Put up with it or consider getting your fellow merkins to realise there is a world out there.
The middle classes were in jobs that undereducated minorities and foreigners couldn't get in to. The lower classes were competing for the same jobs with all these foreigners and, in the case of the US post Civil War, black freed slaves.
Which left these people fighting for jobs and their very livelihoods against a new group of people.
Of COURSE they were racist.
It's understandable too.
But it's still racism.
My bad, perhaps I'm mistaken the name with some other one, like Iraq or something ...
The Bolsheviks/Soviets. For a time.
And they in turn were better (for...Germans) than Tzar due to lack of will to continue Russian involvement in WW1.
One that hath name thou can not otter
How in the name of hell is point "F) And most importantly, women are not being forced to wear burkhas if they don't want to" most important!?
Seriously being compelled to wear a piece of clothing is trivial in comparison to issues like education, sanitation and democracy.
Hell with education and democracy the issue of attire can be dealt with in time if they so choose.
That is not the government doing the beatings. It is the religious-right which is trying to force women to wear the burkha.
Granted, the police should be arresting those doing the beating but like the government, reform takes time.
We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
... he will be sued for $20 million for the illegal distribution of that article. That's enlightened.
I did some poking around and found the data the parent poster is referring to:
Aid donated per capita
Aid per $ of GDP
And here's how aid is defined in this context:
DEFINITION: The net official development assistance (ODA) from Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD) nations to developing countries and multilateral organizations. ODA is defined as financial assistance that is concessional in character, has the main objective to promote economic development and welfare of the less developed countries (LDCs), and contains a grant element of at least 25%. The entry does not cover other official flows (OOF) or private flows.
Take all that for what you will; the parent still makes a great point. Politicians and pundits on both sides of the U.S. political divide often say we're the "most generous" nation in the world. But defining "generosity" as "total aid" certainly seems like an inept measure here--unless, of course, you're a talking head with a book to sell or politician with an election to win.
Women and religion, a potent and dangerous cocktail that will warp and debase even the most rational man's thought processes. Add the power of government and you get coercive nightmares like this poor schmuck in Afghanistan is experiencing.
If that isn't a good reason for anyone who has different priorities to take the moral high ground, I don't know what is.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
For all the hipsters here in the states that whine about this being a police state anytime some real criminal gets tased, please see above article.
That's probably a factor, but I'm sure that if someone blew up a high-profile American building and hid in Darfur, we'd be in there quickly enough.
Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.
After five years we should *own* that country. The fact that we aren't even close shows just how badly we dropped the ball in Afghanistan. We should pull out completely and let the country devolve into chaos. Then when bin Laden makes his triumphal return to organize the mess, nuke it into non-existence, which is what we should have done on 9/12.
As far as blasphemy? All religions - without exception - should be eliminated from the human experience. It is shameful that a species that can explore other planets still includes members that seriously believe in sky fairies.
If you measure by the only useful metric there is, per capita charitable donations (which include the private donations your statistics do not) the US crushes everyone.
By miles.
So I guess when you said "Only if you calculate it the way most favourable to yourself." you were just foreshadowing your post?
http://gpr.hudson.org/files/publications/GlobalPhilanthropy.pdf
The myth that Americans are stingy has been repeatedly debunked and only the most disingenuous individual could argue agans the fact that Americans win on total giving hands down.
"The government grants you rights, not the other way around."-- beav007. Yes, these people really exist...
This is a cultural issue. It took America 150 years to give minorities and woman the right to vote. It was a loooong process of slowly coming to the right conclusions. In Afganistan, one day it was illegal, the next day it was legal. You CANNOT legislate culture, no matter how hard you try. It simply won't happen overnight, so we shouldn't expect it to.
I, for one, am glad that the powers that be found some humane sympathy in their hearts.
Really... one wonders why did the muslim people let the Qran and the words of the prophet to be misleadingly destroyed, chopped over and reintepreted by this fucking bunch of assholes.
Really. I think we do need to start drawing explicit cultural lines:
"I come from a culture, where the basic right is the right for the individual to interpret his/her reality with complete independence of society."
Cultures that do not respect this basic principle (its a cartesian principle, BTW, ya stupid geeks: Descartes brought and/or rescued this idea for us), are SUBPAR.
And we should BE WEARY of them.
NO SIG
"It does if your reality consists of the belief that blasphemy and enciting others to blasphemy will literally send them to hell."
What harm? The belief that harm may/will occur is not the same as actually being harmed. I see no actual injury of any kind in your claim.
"That's one reason religion is dangerous. It's not based on a rational reality"
And this is where your point eats itself. How can you claim someone is being harmed by their own irrational belief? And you still have yet to demonstrate what "harm" is occurring.
And again, keep in mind, the belief that harm will occur is not harm, and it is that belief that is the cause of the problem, not actions that challenge that belief.
I think the "cultural relativism" mods are out modding in force today, no matter how wrong they are.
"The government grants you rights, not the other way around."-- beav007. Yes, these people really exist...
That there are a lot of people in the U.S. that believe Sharia law should be adopted. And there are a lot of people that are hell-bent on resurrecting the so-called Fairness Doctrine which is anything but. Never forget that the U.S. Constitution and the Bill of Rights exists for a reason. Freedom of Speech means you are free to express your opinion without fear of government retribution or meddling. Imagine if CNN or the New York Times had to publish/air an equal amount of time or number of words on the same page for opposing opinions.
would look nice dotting that whole country....and some mid-east countries as well...
remove;
heroin
Taliban
Osama, and his buddies
all gone in a wisp of ash
a 1 stone killing 3 birds thing...
You must live in the bad part of the country. Also.
Never let a lack of data get in the way of a good rant.
"How exactly we go about convincing millions of people not to execute people is the unknown question. We can't even do it in some countries that claim to be civilized."
We can't even do that in Texas.
Never let a lack of data get in the way of a good rant.
If you smoke a pack of cigarettes a day, that's about 3000 hits per week. If you get high twice a week on quality ganja, that's 8-10 hits a week, er, so I'm told.
Is it unhealthy? Sure, it's smoke. To a statistically significant extent? Highly doubtful.
I have nothing but respect for those unwilling to take that chance, and nothing but contempt for those who would not allow others to make their own choice.
Never let a lack of data get in the way of a good rant.
"Even so, I'd be curious about the background for your claim that if we include private aid then the US "crushes" everyone. Where do you find numbers that support that claim ? "
In that PDF you didn't read.
"Where do you find numbers that support that claim ? Is it anywhere in the pdf you refer to ? A short glance didn't seem to turn it up, and I can't be bothered to do your homework for you."
Well, I gave you the reading material, how is your own willingness to continue being ignorant because you're too lazy to read material you were given "my homework" and not "your belligerence"?
It's there, read it or don't, you're not less wrong because you ignore the proof that makes you wrong.
"The government grants you rights, not the other way around."-- beav007. Yes, these people really exist...
Although the current administration under President Bush is frequently guilty of this cynical and spotty support for human rights, the USA has a long and honorable track record of supporting human rights. Yes, we could do better, but at great expense and inconvenience, we have worked to create and foster a variety of international treaties and organizations which promote human rights. The past several years have damaged our reputation gravely, but please do consider the depth of our support for human rights and give us some credit. Frankly, even though we have mismanaged our intervention in Afghanistan, and even though Iraq is almost universally agreed to have been the wrong war, in the wrong place, at the wrong time, it is still quite possible that the people of both of those nations will be better off with respect to human rights after intervention by the USA than before it.
Afghanistan under the Taliban, and Iraq under Saddam Hussein were universally acknowledged to be amongst the most dismal places to have the misfortune to be born. In both countries, the chief threat to peace, and basic human rights, is not the USA, but rather militant fundamentalist monotheistic religion.
The greatest weakness of the USA in these current interventions is undoubtedly our unwillingness, as a nation, to admit that fundamentalist religion may be a threat to democracy. If we admit that, we would be forced to look in the mirror, and see that much of the damage to our own democracy in the past few years is rooted in fundamentalist Christian movements, here.
If you mod me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine.
It is a reference by any measure. I find it sad, but telling, that you need to blame your decision to remain ignorant on there being too much information for you.
Not surprising as you are clearly very heavily emotionally invested in your biases, but sad.
"I'd rather remain ignorant than read."
That is what you just said. How can an intelligent person be proud of that position like you are?
"The government grants you rights, not the other way around."-- beav007. Yes, these people really exist...
I just named my biggest ever turd Muhammed!
It's nowhere near the length of an encyclopedia, so I find your disingenuous attempts to portray it as such even more telling.
You know you're wrong and are embarassing yourself trying to find an excuse to avoid confirming it.
Frankly, you sound petulant and silly, especially with your "show me or shut up" nonsense.
You have proven making excuses and remaining ignorant ismore important to you than having the facts.
And before you whine like a 6 year old about reading something cause it's "too long and hard" for you, keep in mind you would have been able to finish it in the time it's taken you to post your ridiculous excuses.
It must suck to know you're wrong and have "no, I'm not reading the proof that I'm wrong, it's too loooooong! Waaaaaaahhhhh!!!" as your argument for not admitting it.
"The government grants you rights, not the other way around."-- beav007. Yes, these people really exist...
"You know. This is getting boring. I asked three times for you to bother giving an actual reference. "
And I did, you just bitched about having to read it, it's TOOOO LOOONG!
"By now it's obvious..."
That you're a lying troll who'll do anything to avoid admitting he was wrong? We know, we've watched you make an ass of yourself doing just that for days.
"You could've saved yourself a lot of effort just saying so though."
And you could have avoided making a fool of yourself by admitting you'd rather remain ignorant that read.
THAT is the truth. I gave you a reference which you have admitted you WOULD NOT READ then you lie and say "By now it's obvious you're not doing that because there is none." in spite of the link you have admitted looking at but not reading.
You lost liar. You have no more arguments.
"The government grants you rights, not the other way around."-- beav007. Yes, these people really exist...