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The RIAA's Rocky Road Ahead

The RIAA's new plan to enlist ISPs in its war on file sharing, once it announced it was calling a halt to new consumer lawsuits, is running into rough sledding. Wired reports on the continuing legal murkiness of the RIAA's interpretation of copyright law. And one small ISP in Louisiana asks the recording organization, "You want me to police your intellectual property? What's your billing address?"

542 comments

  1. Multiple interpretations by BadAnalogyGuy · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "What's your billing address?"

    That's not exactly an unequivocal rejection.

    Where would all you music sharers be if the RIAA responds with a valid billing address? It is just a matter of money before those ISPs start cooperating.

    1. Re:Multiple interpretations by Thanshin · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It's worse than that; it's a new justification for the RIAA to ask for money.

      RIAA: "Pirates are generating losses of millions of dollars. They force us to pay large amounts to every ISP so they enforce our demands."

      "Now when we catch a pirate we'll of course ask for compensation of all those millions."

      Soon sending a song through the web will bring larger fines than experimenting with nuclear weapons at home.

      I can see the prison conversations.
      "What are you here for?"
      "Eating babies. And you?"
      "Whistling a song in public."
      "Friking depraved garbage! I hope you rot in hell."

    2. Re:Multiple interpretations by johndmartiniii · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Of course this is how the statement should be interpreted. It does, however, indicate that the ISP in question might be pretty realistic about the reality of the RIAA interpretation of copyright law: that it is not tenable in the long run and that everyone cannot simply be expected to jump on board. While it is not an unequivocal "no," it does indicate a reluctance to simply comply: though, that reluctance might indeed be assuaged by a little cash (probably a lot of cash.

      Maybe the ISP's will charge RIAA so exorbitantly that they it will be a deterrent to their seeking compliance in the first place.

      --
      If you don't know what you're doing, you can't make mistakes.
    3. Re:Multiple interpretations by MRe_nl · · Score: 5, Informative

      "It is just a matter of money before those ISPs start cooperating."

      From the article;

      "First, when a media company demands he kick a customer off the network, there is very little in the way of proof offered that the person in question has committed a crime, according to Scroggin. Yet, entertainment companies want Scroggin to simply wave goodbye to a customer who might have signed up for a three-year plan. At $40 per month, that customer is potentially worth $1,440 to Scroggin over the life of the plan. That, says the ISP owner, is unreasonable.
      Next, it's expensive and time consuming to ask highly paid technicians to chase down IP logs and customer IDs, Scroggin said, noting that it's especially difficult nowadays because it's extremely easy to spoof IP addresses.
      And then there are the letters Scroggin receives from Hollywood that demand he act or else.
      Scroggin warns that the film and music industries must try a new tack if they want cooperation from ISPs."

      It seems it's not just a matter of money, it's a question of proof, technical feasability, willingness on the part of the ISP's and quite a lot of money.

      --
      "Kill 'em all and let Root sort 'em out"
    4. Re:Multiple interpretations by EsbenMoseHansen · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Soon sending a song through the web will bring larger fines than experimenting with nuclear weapons at home.

      If was only one song, rather than 1/3 - 1/2 of the traffic on the internet, I would see your point. As a legal user of P2P, and as a PC gamer (linux only, though), I really hate all the copyright infringements going on. I'd bet that the reason we don't see another monkey island or similar is due to piracy.

      The only up is that online games are having a ball, since cracking those are harder. My hope is that someday it will be feasible to simply host the game on some server and deliver all the content over the net, so that we can get rid of the arrrrggghh pirates.

      End rant :)

      --
      Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by rulers as useful.
    5. Re:Multiple interpretations by malinha · · Score: 1

      Very easy to find the value that the ISP will charge, The same that R**A wants people getting sued to pay for each song.

    6. Re:Multiple interpretations by Thanshin · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If it was only one gun, rather than 99.999/100 of the weapon production on the world, I would see your point. As a sword fight practicioner, I really hate all the gun buying going on. I'd bet that's the reason we don't see another grand master sword forge is due to gunfights.

      i.e.: Your personal feelings and/or situation don't make reality right or wrong.

    7. Re:Multiple interpretations by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      How do you spoof an IP address?

    8. Re:Multiple interpretations by drsmithy · · Score: 5, Insightful

      As a legal user of P2P, and as a PC gamer (linux only, though), I really hate all the copyright infringements going on.

      If copyright law were a more reasonable reflection of reality, there wouldn't be anywhere near as much copyright infringement going on.

      I'd bet that the reason we don't see another monkey island or similar is due to piracy.

      And you'd be wrong.

    9. Re:Multiple interpretations by FinchWorld · · Score: 4, Interesting

      You can forge IP packets so that the reciever of the packet is given a fake sender IP. Im not entirely sure how the packets of most P2P programs work, but it could be possible they will accept a packet with a spoofed IP under the correct circumstances. In this way you could possibly make it look like 76.74.24.143 was distributing music (riaa.com).

      --
      "I may be full of crap about this game, and I may be wrong, and that's fine." -Jack Thompson
    10. Re:Multiple interpretations by OneSmartFellow · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Your personal feelings and/or situation don't make reality right or wrong

      Oh, contrair, his/her personal feelings and/or situation is reality as he/she is experiencing it.

    11. Re:Multiple interpretations by VorlonFog · · Score: 4, Funny

      From the background article of the same source: "In regards to billing, we fail to understand what you mean with that!" Apparently, that question is far too complex and foreign a question for these money-hungry scum to comprehend.

    12. Re:Multiple interpretations by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, as for technicalities: just install that Australian logging router.
      As for the money, $1440 is a drop in the ocean compared what RIAA is going to rip from that poor customer anyways.
      So in the end, the customer may end up paying all the bills.

    13. Re:Multiple interpretations by troll8901 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I cannot understand why his post is rated "Score:0, Troll". He is merely stating his personal opinion.

      Isn't Slashdot all about reading the articles and discussing them in a civilised manner?

    14. Re:Multiple interpretations by emarock · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Very easy to find the value that the ISP will charge,

      It is actually very hard, and mostly dependent on the level of competition among ISPs. In areas where people can buy access from one provider only -- or where a well established cartel exists -- ISPs will be happy to partner with RIAA to calm down those bandwidth hogs who demand to actually use the bandwidth they pay for. However, in normal markets RIAA will be asked to cover the losses caused by customer churn; I suspect it will be pretty expensive, especially if you consider that per-year revenues of the whole entertainment system are made in less than one month by the telecommunication industry.

    15. Re:Multiple interpretations by Kjella · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Soon sending a song through the web will bring larger fines than experimenting with nuclear weapons at home.

      The fines are already at the level where it doesn't matter. The median household income in the US is about 50k$, and at 150k$/song you're being sued for your life earnings for sharing a CD with 15 songs. If you're sharing your music collection with your friends, say 200 CDs * 15 songs then even at a 750$ statutory minimum you're also looking at the same. It's the point where it just doesn't matter - if I owed 2 milion dollars or 200 million dollars or 200 trillion dollars it wouldn't matter. It's a "life" sentence for sharing music files...

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    16. Re:Multiple interpretations by Bert64 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Piracy was already rampant when monkey island came out. It came on floppies which were easily copied.
      But the fact is, making good playable games is less profitable than making lousy games with pretty graphics.

      --
      http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
    17. Re:Multiple interpretations by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's like going into a bar in the south and proclaiming that you think gays should be allowed to marry, christianity is a superstition and only retards like country and western music. If you do that, you're not expecting a civilized discussion.

    18. Re:Multiple interpretations by danking · · Score: 1

      You have the greatest idea! Maybe the RIAA would end up suing itself or getting itself banned from the Internet!

    19. Re:Multiple interpretations by Repossessed · · Score: 2, Funny

      I'll take that. At 50 million file sharers and 1,500 grand (minimum) a piece for the ISPs to drop them, how long could the RIAA hold out? And i love a good courtrom brawl, it'd make for funny trials.

      --
      Liberte, Egalite, Fraternite (TM)
    20. Re:Multiple interpretations by Repossessed · · Score: 1

      Urg, please pretend I didn't butcher the English language with the above.

      --
      Liberte, Egalite, Fraternite (TM)
    21. Re:Multiple interpretations by Snaller · · Score: 1

      My hope is that copyright will one day be removed from law, since its an amoral way of trying to make money.

      --
      If Google really cared they would fix Android Chrome to reflow text, instead of discriminating
    22. Re:Multiple interpretations by theaveng · · Score: 1

      >>>As a legal user of P2P, and as a PC gamer (linux only, though), I really hate all the copyright infringements going on. I'd bet that the reason we don't see another monkey island or similar is due to piracy.
      >>>

      I don't agree with your opinion, but I respect it.

      Similarly as a legal purchaser of CDs (I prefer uncompressed music) and also TV shows on DVD, it disturbs me that I can buy unmitigated crap like Season 6 of 24, or Star Drek Voyuer, and I have no legal recourse to recover my money (not even store credit). Any other business stands behind their product and guarantees satisfaction - you buy a TV, the picture is bad, you can return it. You buy a PSP and it dies a month later, you can return it. You buy a piece of shit DVD like Galactica 1980, and you might as well bend-over and take it up the ____ because you just lost $50.

      As a result I feel it's necessary to "test drive" media before purchase. With CDs I can get legal samples online, but with TV shows on DVD there is no method except to download it and see if it's any good. It's illegal, but I do it because I don't want to get stuck wasting thousands of dollars on trash.

      When media companies start treating me with respect, and letting me return junk like Voyuer or Earth Final Drek, then I will treat them with respect too.

      --
      FOX NEWS.com should be BANNED from television and internet. Have the Congress take it over and give us Truespeak.
    23. Re:Multiple interpretations by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      Oh, contrair

      Here here, it's a doggy-dog world.

    24. Re:Multiple interpretations by theaveng · · Score: 1

      "The best facet of the Second Amendment is that it's not needed..... until the government tries to take liberty away." - Founder of the Democratic Party, Thomas Jefferson

      --
      FOX NEWS.com should be BANNED from television and internet. Have the Congress take it over and give us Truespeak.
    25. Re:Multiple interpretations by theaveng · · Score: 1

      >>>150k$/song you're being sued for your life earnings

      If I was fined 150,000 dollars the only kind of "payment" the CEO of RIAA would receive is a bullet. Tyrants must fall.

      --
      FOX NEWS.com should be BANNED from television and internet. Have the Congress take it over and give us Truespeak.
    26. Re:Multiple interpretations by Snaller · · Score: 1

      "It seems it's not just a matter of money, it's a question of proof, technical feasability, willingness on the part of the ISP's and quite a lot of money."

      Sure its a matter of money, they don't care about proof (just an excuse) but technicians cost money. If the riaa handed them 5000$ every time, they would just do it.

      --
      If Google really cared they would fix Android Chrome to reflow text, instead of discriminating
    27. Re:Multiple interpretations by Drakkenmensch · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "What's your billing address?" That's not exactly an unequivocal rejection. Where would all you music sharers be if the RIAA responds with a valid billing address? It is just a matter of money before those ISPs start cooperating.

      He's not saying that all the RIAA needs to do is open their checkbooks. What he really meant was that the Righteous Inquisition Army of Autocrats shouldn't be expecting a free lunch from the ISPs for the dubious honor of being their loyal army of thuggish lapdogs. And that any legal threat letters to do so for free will be redirected to the nearest convenient trashbin.

    28. Re:Multiple interpretations by Randall311 · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      May the Lord be with you

    29. Re:Multiple interpretations by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thats why the creator of Warcraft, yes the original, was quoted as saying, "While I disagree with piracy as a whole. If we hadn't had 300,000 copies, approximately, of the Original Warcraft pirated we probably wouldn't be who we are today."

      Sounds to me like, while "Wrong" and "Evil" if the gaming industry and "pirates" worked together we might have a better system.

      Would you pay 20,000 to have your car drop all 4 wheels one week later? Then WHY must we tolerate it in a video game?

    30. Re:Multiple interpretations by robot_love · · Score: 1

      Simmer down.

      The CEO of the RIAA is doing what he/she is legally obligated to do: maximize profits.

      The problem is with the law that allows them to do what it is they are doing. That's what needs changing.

      --
      .there is enough of everything for everyone.
    31. Re:Multiple interpretations by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      Here comes the french grammar nazi:

      It's "Au contraire".

    32. Re:Multiple interpretations by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      your kind sure do stick together, mr. troll8901.

    33. Re:Multiple interpretations by theaveng · · Score: 1

      >>>While it is not an unequivocal "no," it does indicate a reluctance to simply comply

      Correct. I respond the same way to MY customers on amazon or ebay. "You want me to send your item immediately? Tomorrow morning? Sure I have no problem with that, however it means I will have to take about one hour off from work, and that's going to cost me $50 in wages. If you are willing to pay that extra 50 dollars, then yes, I will mail your package first thing tomorrow morning. Thanks :-)"

      This shuts the customer up, because they don't want to pay me an extra 50, and I really don't want to visit the post office first thing tomorrow.

      I suspect the ISP owner chose his answer carefully, because he is hoping RIAA will be similarly "shut up" rather than pay the cost for extra time/effort policing his users.

      --
      FOX NEWS.com should be BANNED from television and internet. Have the Congress take it over and give us Truespeak.
    34. Re:Multiple interpretations by Ephemeriis · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I'd bet that the reason we don't see another monkey island or similar is due to piracy.

      That is not true. Adventure games, like Monkey Island, have been deemed not popular/profitable enough to make. The big publishers only want to turn out shooters, war sims, and the occasional fantasy/RPG title. It isn't just adventure games either...when is the last time you saw a decent flight sim? Or, more specifically my personal favorite - space flight sims.

      Piracy is being used as a digital bogeyman to explain anything and everything that publishers dislike.

      Music/Game sales slipping? Must be piracy, there's no way people don't like what we're selling or how we're selling it. Find new talent? Embrace on-line distribution? Why do that when we can just prosecute?!

      Producing games is expensive. Nobody wants to just break-even these days, they all want the next ginormous hit. So everyone is trying to copy the leader... That's why you get eleventy-billion Halo clones and GTA-alikes. MMORPGs, similarly, were seen as a cash cow. For a while there we had new MMORPGs being announced weekly.

      My hope is that someday it will be feasible to simply host the game on some server and deliver all the content over the net

      It already is, and in such a way that it's actually a boon to both the producers and the players.

      Steam is good for producers because you've got centralized tracking of game registration/authorization. And people are hesitant to mess around too much with a game on Steam because it can get their entire Steam Account (and all their Steam games) banned. Sure, it can be cracked/bypassed... But it works at least as well as SecuROM does, and it's less invasive to the player. Plus you can distribute your game digitally, so you save on packaging.

      Steam is good for players because all you need is your username and password to re-install anything you've ever purchased on Steam. Lose the CD? No problem! Reformat your entire computer? No problem! Just log in to Steam, kick off the download, and wait. You also get all your game updates distributed automatically, built-in profile/achievement/friends/community support, and a very simple and easy-to-use on-line store.

      But distribution methods like Steam don't fix the problem. It doesn't matter how you distribute your games/music or how you protect them - if people don't feel that they're worth the price you're asking, they won't buy.

      Some people are going to pirate no matter what. There's no way they'll ever pay a cent. It might be the thrill of doing something "illegal"... It might be some kind of weird political statement... But they're just never going to pay.

      But then you also have folks who are just unwilling to pay $60 for yet-another-scifi-shooter that is a crappy imitation of Halo with only 5 hours of gameplay. They may be willing to pirate a copy of it just to see what everyone is talking about. They may be bored enough to play around with it for a few hours. But they aren't willing to shell out $60 for a piece of crap.

      You aren't the only person who likes adventure games. If EA was willing to put the time and resources into turning out a decent adventure title it would sell. But you (and the other adventure fans out there) can't buy what they aren't making.

      Similarly I would buy a decent space flight sim, if they'd make it.

      Hopefully recent titles like Dead Space and Mirror's Edge mean that EA is finally willing to try something new... But I'll believe it when I see more than one or two interesting titles.

      --
      "Work is the curse of the drinking classes." -Oscar Wilde
    35. Re:Multiple interpretations by Dan541 · · Score: 1

      Why would ISPs betray their customers?

      The more bandwidth we use the more money they make, plus pissed off customers take their business elsewhere.

      --
      An SQL query goes to a bar, walks up to a table and asks, "Mind if I join you?"
    36. Re:Multiple interpretations by easyTree · · Score: 2, Insightful

      In this way you could possibly make it look like 76.74.24.143 was distributing music (riaa.com).

      Lol. Never gonna happen. It hasn't occurred to the RIAA that they might want to try competing with the pirates in offering a product that is easily found, downloaded and consumed.

      Noone tell them; the last thing we want is an RIAA that has a source of income other than the life savings of innocent dead goldfish.

    37. Re:Multiple interpretations by YouWantFriesWithThat · · Score: 1

      i can see a system developing to compensate for people switching people on disconnect, after this happens enough they will tighten up loopholes. it is as easy of putting you on a list if you are booted from one ISP for downloading content the RIAA claims copyright to, using p2p, or even exceeding your bandwidth caps.

      in the past people used to rack up lots of bounced checks, then switch to a new bank. now, the banks subscribe to chexsystems and if you fuck up once you won't be able to get an account from any member bank after that.

      i am sure that the RIAA would love to maintain a list such as this. we don't need a 3 strikes law in the states, all it will take is a private system to blacklist users.

    38. Re:Multiple interpretations by LoyalOpposition · · Score: 1

      [citation needed]

      -Loyal

      --
      I aim to misbehave.
    39. Re:Multiple interpretations by fprintf · · Score: 3, Funny

      Or like going into a bar in San Francisco and saying that being homosexual is an affront to God, a huge sin, and everyone is going to burn in hell. Except instead of fists of rage or guns drawn, you get "you big meanie, come on over here so we can sssspank you!"

      --
      This post brought to you by your friendly neighborhood MBA.
    40. Re:Multiple interpretations by Moryath · · Score: 0, Troll

      But the fact is, making good playable games is less profitable than making lousy games with pretty graphics.

      That's because society, as a whole, has been breeding for stupidity for quite a few generations already.

      You don't believe me? Consider this one. Or just the number of people who think that "reality TV" and (c)rap music are entertaining.

    41. Re:Multiple interpretations by WillDraven · · Score: 1

      Here's an interesting thought, what if the ISPs billed the RIAA ridiculous rates, and then turned around and passed on enough of that cash for an excellent lawyer (or to pay the fines if they lose the case) to anybody they handed over to the RIAA? Here you go, we'll give you plenty of court cases.. that you'll lose.

      Not going to happen I know, but still a funny thought.

      --
      This is my sig. There are many like it but this one is mine.
    42. Re:Multiple interpretations by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Admit it, that's your favorite pick-up line.

    43. Re:Multiple interpretations by geminidomino · · Score: 1

      Your personal feelings and/or situation don't make reality right or wrong

      Oh, contrair, his/her personal feelings and/or situation is reality as he/she is experiencing it.

      Ok, so then EsbenMoseHansen's solipsism doesn't make reality right or wrong

    44. Re:Multiple interpretations by drsmithy · · Score: 1

      Piracy was already rampant when monkey island came out. It came on floppies which were easily copied.

      It also came with the little copy-protection wheel you had to match the faces up on. Although that wasn't particularly hard to copy, either (I seem to vaguely recall there was a wrist-smacking anti-piracy message printed on the inside of the wheel that could only be seen when you took it apart to photocopy, but it's a struggle to remember that far back).

      These days (naturally) you can do it online.

    45. Re:Multiple interpretations by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Why should he simmer down? What's the appropriate response for literally ruining a person's life? And don't give me a load of shit about "there's more to life than money". Try paying your bills with good will, love, and cheer.

      I was a bit disappointed when Enron collapsed and took all of those folks' retirements with them that some grizzled old Vietnam or Korean war vet didn't show up and go cyclic in the boardroom.

    46. Re:Multiple interpretations by mcgrew · · Score: 1, Insightful

      There used to be a thing called "metamoderation". The way it worked was, you would get mod points and use them. Then later your moderations were moderated - fair or unfair (or for a funny mod, funny and unfunny). If you were metamoderated badly and given unfairs, you didn't get any more mod points.

      Now the so-called "metamoderation" is + and -; is this a good post? Rather then metamoderation it is a secondary moderation.

      Since they destroyed metamoderation, the quality of mods has sunk to abysmal levels. I responded to an unmoderated racist troll yesterday (I know, DNFTT) and rather than the GNAA-type post I was responding to, MY comment was modded "troll".

      It's sad what they're doing to slashdot.

      That said, the moderator in this case probably was right. The modded opinion was ignorant, and there's no "-1, stupid" mod. I've seen no proof whatever that copyright infringement has cost anyone a nickle, and in many cases (e.g., Photoshop) has cause programs to become insanely popular and made tons of cash.

    47. Re:Multiple interpretations by TapeCutter · · Score: 2, Informative

      It's more insidious than that. Here in Australia...

      The top 3 ISP's are Testra, Optus, iiNet. iiNet is a distant third with about 5% of the market.
      The only serious cable TV companies are Telstra and Optus
      The only serious telco's are also Telstra and Optus.

      Of course Tesltra's and Optus' cable/isp/phone divisions are divided into seperate bussiness on paper but they already "volentarily" pass on MAFIAA paperwork to users, iiNet passes the paperwork to the police and are now being sued by the MAFIAA. The MAFIAA are trying to set the precednt that what Teslstra and Optus do is actually now the law under the US-AU trade agreement. Over the next few years I think we will see more and more telco's and content producers jump in bed with each other for their mutual advantage (ie: squeeze independent ISP's out of the market from both sides of the equation).

      --
      And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
    48. Re:Multiple interpretations by FredFredrickson · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Personally, I rent.

      --
      Belief? Hope? Preference?The Existential Vortex
    49. Re:Multiple interpretations by mishehu · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I beg to differ. Officers and board members of organizations, especially for-profit, are *not* legally obliged to maximize profits at all costs, especially when those methods are unethical. The fact that shareholders could possibly sue if they thought that something was done to hurt their earnings is beside the point: Remember from SNL from the 1990's? Transcript follows:

      "Woman: I'd love to sue somebody, but don't I need a reason?

      "Barry Green: Myth #8: In order to be successful, a lawsuit must have merit. False. At the law firm of Green & Fazio, we know that some of the most lucrative lawsuits are nuisance suits. you see, today's large corporations and wealthy individuals would rather settle out-of-court than deal with the headaches, the harassment, of endless emotionally draining litigation. And no one harasses defendents like Green & Fazio."

    50. Re:Multiple interpretations by BAKup · · Score: 5, Insightful

      As a result I feel it's necessary to "test drive" media before purchase. With CDs I can get legal samples online, but with TV shows on DVD there is no method except to download it and see if it's any good. It's illegal, but I do it because I don't want to get stuck wasting thousands of dollars on trash.

      Other options.

      1. Netflix. They even happen to have Galactica 1980 on watch it now.
      2. Reading reviews online.
      3. Reading reviews in magazines.
      4. Netflix.
      5. Asking friends about shows.
      6. Hulu.
      7. Youtube (Ok, this one isn't fully legal)
      8. Blockbuster.
      9. All the other video rental stores.
      10. Did I mention Netflix?

      I know not everything would be on all the options listed, so there's up to 8 other options, unless you don't have any friends, then there's only up to 7 options.

      So don't say the only option you have is to download.

    51. Re:Multiple interpretations by Shakrai · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Here is a similar quote: "The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it."

      Some other interesting ones on the same page: "The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not."

      "Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have ... The course of history shows that as a government grows, liberty decreases."

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    52. Re:Multiple interpretations by Midnight+Thunder · · Score: 1

      Isn't Slashdot all about reading the articles and discussing them in a civilised manner?

      You must be new here. Based on the experience of the past three years:

      1. Read Summary and then comment on summary, assuming it is correct interpretation of article.
      2. Correction is posted 300 posts later, from the one person who read the article.
      3. Correction gets moderated positive on the condition the moderators actually read the article.

      Why am I still here? Baaaaah ;)

      --
      Jumpstart the tartan drive.
    53. Re:Multiple interpretations by Shakrai · · Score: 1

      I've seen no proof whatever that copyright infringement has cost anyone a nickle, and in many cases (e.g., Photoshop) has cause programs to become insanely popular and made tons of cash

      Windows too. Wonder how much more popular Linux would be in the developing world if Windows wasn't so easy to pirate? Microsoft is locking in a whole generation of consumers and it's costing them zero in marketing. Hard to argue with that isn't it?

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    54. Re:Multiple interpretations by tompaulco · · Score: 4, Funny

      Welcome to Slashdot, where your opinion matters.
      Here are your opinions:
      Music should be free
      Software should be free (except the software written by the developers in slashdot)
      Obama is awesome
      McCain sucks
      America sucks
      The war in Iraq is bad
      Homosexuality is awesome
      There is no God
      Criminals should receive a stern talking to, and having learned their lesson, be put back on the street
      Guns are evil
      Microsoft is evil
      Google is awesome (but stay tuned for further updates)
      Linux is awesome
      Apple is awesome
      We will keep you informed as you form other opinions or your opinion changes. Enjoy your discussion on slashdot!

      --
      If you are not allowed to question your government then the government has answered your question.
    55. Re:Multiple interpretations by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      But the fact is, making good playable games is less profitable than making lousy games with pretty graphics.

      That's bullshit. DOOM (shareware DOOM) was insanely popular. Quake was too - and Quake II was prettier but IIRC not quite as popular. Everybody bitched about Quake III, I didn't even buy it; the damned thing wouldn't run on my (then) brand new video card. So much for "pretty". When they can't come up with good gameplay, "Pretty" is all they have.

      Guitar Hero isn't selling?

      I never met a single gamer that gave two shits about "pretty graphics". WTF are you smoking? Oh wait - do you by chance work for one of the game companies? That would explain your apparent disconnect from reality.

    56. Re:Multiple interpretations by TapeCutter · · Score: 1

      /s "content producers", "content owners"

      --
      And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
    57. Re:Multiple interpretations by Shakrai · · Score: 1

      I was a bit disappointed when Enron collapsed and took all of those folks' retirements with them

      Those folks had no one to blame for that but themselves. Loading up your retirement accounts with company stock is universally regarded as a very bad idea. If they had bothered to learn what kind of investments they were making and diversify they would have been much better off.

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    58. Re:Multiple interpretations by internerdj · · Score: 1

      What do you mean pay you? Everyone is our private police force, it is in the constitition... Don't you know anything?

    59. Re:Multiple interpretations by funkatron · · Score: 1

      New here etc.

      --
      "Welcome to our world. We are the wasted youth. And we are the future too." Yes, I know these are stupid lyrics.
    60. Re:Multiple interpretations by robot_love · · Score: 1

      Maybe so, but any officers or board members who did not attempt to maximize profits would likely quickly be replaced. And while you and I may agree that what they do is unethical, they may disagree. The human imagination is infinitely able to twist reality to suit an individual.

      But whether or not these officers must pursue profit my main point stands in that the law that allows them to act in this way needs to change.

      --
      .there is enough of everything for everyone.
    61. Re:Multiple interpretations by OneSmartFellow · · Score: 4, Funny

      savoir faire is everywhere

    62. Re:Multiple interpretations by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Those wheels were pointless, as were the page/paragraph/line/word x entry systems. It would take about 10 minutes to fix the code in something like devpac, removing these pointless "protection" schemes. More often than not, you'd find comments left in the code stating out how pissed off the programmer was for having to implement them. Why remove the "protect"? Because it was inconvenient having to find the box, wheel, book each time you wanted to play something. Ah yes, the legal owner gets an inferior product to the copied version. Sound familiar?

    63. Re:Multiple interpretations by Zordak · · Score: 1

      Isn't Slashdot all about reading the articles and discussing them in a civilised manner?

      "Insightful"? I think he was going for the "Funny."

      --

      Today's Sesame Street was brought to you by the number e.
    64. Re:Multiple interpretations by genner · · Score: 2, Funny

      Dude....decaf...try some.

    65. Re:Multiple interpretations by genner · · Score: 1

      "Insightful"? I think he was going for the "Funny."

      It's only funny because it's true which makes it insightful.

    66. Re:Multiple interpretations by Garwulf · · Score: 3, Insightful

      "If copyright law were a more reasonable reflection of reality, there wouldn't be anywhere near as much copyright infringement going on."

      The thing of it is that copyright law IS a reasonable reflection of reality. And as a creative artist and distributor myself, that's what annoyed me so much about the RIAA lawsuits - it made something that was realistic and reasonable look in the public eye like some sort of club for extorting money from dead grandmothers.

      The area of copyright law that deals with the general public is the smallest tip of the iceberg. Most of copyright law has nothing to do with the general public, but everything to do with contract negotiations and relations between creative artists and distributors, and between different distributors. Most of it is an internal legal framework. And frankly, it works extremely well.

      There is, however, a lot of piracy - the stuff artists and distributors generally have to worry about is people uploading material, as the downloaders are just getting free swag. And let's face it - people have always liked to get their hands on free swag...that's just part of human nature. But since the RIAA began their lawsuit campaign, they've taken their interpretation of copyright law, which was against both the letter and spirit of the law, and shoved it down the public's throat. This caused a massive backlash, and the free swag ideal has started to become an ideology at a grassroots level - and that is very, very dangerous in the long run.

      Back around 17 years ago, when I was in my mid-teens, I was a fairly accomplished computer game pirate. But I always knew I was getting away with something whenever I pirated a game - I never felt as though I had the entitlement to do it. And, I grew out of it by the age of 17. These days, there is a strong sense that piracy is an entitlement, and that extends to campaigning to get rid of anything standing in the way of that entitlement.

      Considering what most of copyright actually does, imagine what would happen to the creative arts if its legal framework suddenly disappeared. A creative artist trying to get his or her material to market would be caught trying to navigate a minefield, similar for anybody trying to be a distributor. Everybody would be having to protect their work however they could, which could translate into contracts being required before a submission even could be made, and for the end user, extremely restrictive DRM - after all, there would be nothing but DRM to protect a distributor's work from other distributors. It would be a crippling blow to the creative industry.

      That's not an unjustified doom and gloom prediction - that's just a recognition that copyright is essentially the grease on the gears of the creative industry, a grease that just about nobody outside of the industry is ever aware of. Remove that grease, and things do not run smoothly.

      The worst part of it is, to a degree, that the public has been made aware of copyright at all. This may sound odd, but considering what copyright is, the best place for it is some notice at the end of a TV show or on the copyright page of a book - some internal thing the public doesn't generally need to worry about. Now, the public is very aware of copyright, and they've got the wrong idea of what it is and what it does. Re-educating people is going to be a long road.

      --
      Robert B. Marks
      Author, Demonsbane in Diablo Archive
    67. Re:Multiple interpretations by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      his/her personal feelings and/or situation is his/her PERCEPTION of reality as he/she is experiencing it.

    68. Re:Multiple interpretations by bob.appleyard · · Score: 1

      Steam is a horror show. It's not the idea, exactly. It just has the "OpenOffice on Linux" effect. That is, every time you try to play any of the games you've got on it, you have to download and install yet another fucking update, which will soak up half an hour, so you might as well go have lunch instead.

      --
      How dare you be so modest!! You conceited bastard!!
    69. Re:Multiple interpretations by Hatta · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Doom and Quake were gorgeous compared to the standards of the day.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    70. Re:Multiple interpretations by AGMW · · Score: 5, Funny
      Here comes the french grammar nazi

      Interestingly, not in France it wouldn't, as anything 'Nazi' is banned in France under French law ... indeed they could, using popular jargon, be referred to as Nazi nazis.

      Do I win a t-shirt?

      --
      Eclectic beats from Leeds, UK
      handmadehands.co.uk
    71. Re:Multiple interpretations by theaveng · · Score: 1

      Still more money than I want to spend. If the TV show is trash, I will have wasted ~$4 on the rental and ~$4 on gasoline.

      The proper solution is to give refunds when a customer returns a DVD he/she considers junk.

      --
      FOX NEWS.com should be BANNED from television and internet. Have the Congress take it over and give us Truespeak.
    72. Re:Multiple interpretations by theaveng · · Score: 1

      Almost every option you list costs me $8-10 for rental - more than I want to spend for crap like Suckita 1980.

      Free options like hulu don't include some series I wanted to see like Earth Final Conflict or the Avengers. I purchased both of these on DVD, and they both sucked. That's almost $200 wasted, and I can't return either of them.

      --
      FOX NEWS.com should be BANNED from television and internet. Have the Congress take it over and give us Truespeak.
    73. Re:Multiple interpretations by PainKilleR-CE · · Score: 1

      I have a feeling that someone told EA Dead Space would be "like Resident Evil [or whatever survival horror game was most popular at the time of the pitch], Doom 3, and Half-Life 2 all rolled into one". It's not really a hard sell if you throw enough top-sellers into the mix.

      Mirror's Edge, well, I'm not really sure how that one got past them. Then again, I find it completely unplayable because it shares the same ability to give me motion sickness that only a small handful of other first-person games has (and it has nothing to do with heights).

      I would really enjoy a new Descent Freespace, but what do I know? Hell, it's not like they have to come up with new IP to make new space flight games or new adventure games, they can still leverage existing IP, but they've let most of that IP rot to the point that it wouldn't make much of a difference in terms of sales.

      At the same time, remember the state of PC RPGs before Baldur's Gate and Fallout came along? Remember when Dune II, Warcraft, and C&C were the only RTS games? When Wolfenstein 3D was new and interesting almost completely by virtue of its camera angle? None of those games are really the result of some big publishing house taking any significant risks (well, maybe a little risk).

      Of course, some people are still attempting development in adventure games, they just aren't getting the backing they would have when they were glutting the market like WWII shooters have been for the last few years.

      --
      -PainKilleR-[CE]
    74. Re:Multiple interpretations by Actually,+I+do+RTFA · · Score: 1

      That's because society, as a whole, has been breeding for stupidity for quite a few generations already.

      It's not a recent phenomenon. Most societies have bred for stupidity. Hell, Europe saw its best minds shipped to seminaries and forced to be chaste.

      --
      Your ad here. Ask me how!
    75. Re:Multiple interpretations by theaveng · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Simmer down.

      The Premier/Fuhrer of the German Reich is doing what he/she is legally obligated to do: keep the German folk happy by imprisoning the malcontents in deathcamps. Substitute with "Caesar" or "Napoleon" or any other tyrant from history. They ALWAYS justify their acts as just doing their job, or trying to improve things, but it doesn't make their actions moral.

      The RIAA CEO's actions to "eat out the substance of the citizens" thorugh million-dollar lawsuits are immoral and tyrannical.

      He should refuse to do it & resign. Or face the consequences.

      --
      FOX NEWS.com should be BANNED from television and internet. Have the Congress take it over and give us Truespeak.
    76. Re:Multiple interpretations by Ephemeriis · · Score: 1

      Steam is a horror show. It's not the idea, exactly. It just has the "OpenOffice on Linux" effect. That is, every time you try to play any of the games you've got on it, you have to download and install yet another fucking update, which will soak up half an hour, so you might as well go have lunch instead.

      Obviously the user experience is going to vary depending on what games you have installed, how often they're updated, how often you launch Steam, and how fast your Internet connection is...

      Personally, I'm firing up Steam at least once a day, so I don't typically have a whole pile of updates waiting for me. And my bandwidth is decent enough that I'm not normally waiting half an hour for things to download and install.

      I'm sure there are probably better ways to do what Steam does... But compared to a lot of the alternatives (SecuROM) it works pretty well.

      --
      "Work is the curse of the drinking classes." -Oscar Wilde
    77. Re:Multiple interpretations by MartinSchou · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Consider this one.
      From that site:
      On November 4th, 2008 millions of Americans were shocked that a man of Barack Obama's limited experience, extreme liberal positions and radical political alliances could be elected President of the United States.

      Let's look at these by themselves:

      *limited experience
      True, from what I hear, Obama's not very experienced. On the other hand, having seen what experience did in the hands of George W. Bush I'm not sure experience is a good way to judge someone's competence. And while I'm not an expert on that subject, I don't think someone like Martin Luther King, Jr. had a lot of political experience before his rise to fame. After all - what we look for in a leader is not always that they're experienced, it's that they inspire us.

      *extreme liberal positions
      Which ones are they? Granted, I'm European, so a lot of the ideas that we have over here are quite radical in the US. Like the right to abortion (least up here in the civilized countries in Northern Europe), socialized medicine (personally I'd skip socialized road works over medicine), free educations for everyone (up to and including university). They don't say what these dangerous and "extreme liberal positions are" so we're left to guess. Maybe it's his idea that you should be able to vote when you're 18?

      *radical political alliances
      And again - which ones are they? Joe Biden as VP? That's hardly any worse than Sarah Palin for VP. And if experience is a requisite for being president, then how the hell can you elect Sarah Palin as the VP candidate? She had less experience than Obama to begin with. And being a mayor of a city with 8,000 people is hardly indicative of ones ability to lead a nation. I'm not judging, just curious about why "these people" don't settle for one standard instead of two

      But, in the end I think Obama was elected because he presented himself of much more of a change away from Bush' policies than McCain. The Daily Show (the horrorible embodiment of liberal media bias) had a nice segment where they contrasted McCain's campain comments with Bush' from 2000, and it certainly sounded like they had the same speech writer. Of course the nice clip where they contrast Karl Rove's ridicule of a potential VP candidate for Obama for only having been the mayor of a city with 200,000 people followed by the same Rove's grandstanding and overstating Palin's work as mayor for Wasilla, a city with less than 6,000 people (according to the 2000 survey).

      Maybe the public in general figured "New guy or the guy who wasn't as good a candidate as Bush was in 2000? Fuck it, I'm not going for the guy that'll be even worse than Bush!"

    78. Re:Multiple interpretations by mpe · · Score: 1

      Next, it's expensive and time consuming to ask highly paid technicians to chase down IP logs and customer IDs, Scroggin said, noting that it's especially difficult nowadays because it's extremely easy to spoof IP addresses.

      "Spoofing" may be as simple as a Bit Torrent tracker reporting some random IP addresses. Even without this happening how accurate are the methods used by the companies involved to identify IP addresses?

    79. Re:Multiple interpretations by PainKilleR-CE · · Score: 1

      It looks like the company thought they were getting a response from the end-user, rather than the ISP itself, they even reference the ISP having cooperated with them, despite the fact that the ISP was asking for more information and a billing address in order to cooperate in the first place.

      I also like the Warner Bros. email that doesn't include any information other than a movie title and IP address, as if the ISP is just going to cut off whoever happens to have the IP when they receive the email (which has probably happened with some ISPs).

      --
      -PainKilleR-[CE]
    80. Re:Multiple interpretations by hsa · · Score: 1

      Er.. that was a SMALL ISP they there talking about.

      Really things go like this:
      RIAA Guy: HI! Would you like to let us sue your biggest filesharers?
      Large ISP: What? Wait! Why? How do you even identify these people?
      RIAA Guy: We just randomly shut down people that generate most upstream! They must be sharing! And sharing is illegal!
      Large ISP: So you want to remove people that use most of our network resources from our hosting?
      RIAA Guy: Yes! And we won't even charge you extra!

      So RIAA really just frees up bandwidth, and I really wonder why the small ISP is not complying.. I would even help them out, sending them a regularly updated list of biggest bandwidth users, and in return get a perfectly reasonable excuse to shut them all down.

    81. Re:Multiple interpretations by IndustrialComplex · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I agree with you in principle, but I have to disagree with you on your analysis.

      While you say that copyright was fine, until the public became aware of it, I would argue that copyright was not fine. It has morphed from the original concept of protecting works for a long enough time so that the creator could gather compensation to something that exists for such a long duration that copyrights today are effectively granted in perpetuity.

      The life of the author plus 50/70 years is a damned long time. And it has now placed copyrights beyond the lives of human beings. That has made them the currency of corporations, and are no longer within the means of trade for us mere mortals.

      I disagree entirely with how copyrights have become the currency for corporations.

      --
      Out of modpoints but really liked a post? 1BDkF6TtmmeZ3yqXbz9yhdYVqRYnwFoXDj
    82. Re:Multiple interpretations by Toll_Free · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      Or maybe that's a dog EAT dog world.

      Amazing, how those sayings take on totally new meaning when used as they where originally STATED.

      --Toll_Free

    83. Re:Multiple interpretations by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Can you say "Salvery!"

    84. Re:Multiple interpretations by Kjella · · Score: 4, Insightful

      But the fact is, making good playable games is less profitable than making lousy games with pretty graphics.

      It's a lot simpler than that - games with crappy graphics don't sell. Period. That doesn't mean it has to be state of the art, but people don't want games that look bad. If you bought say a board game then maybe the gameplay is good but if it was flimsy, tacky and of generally poor quality you wouldn't like it either right? People expect more as a base minimum and that means fewer and bigger games, I don't think the crap to good ratio has gotten any worse, there was plenty crap and there is plenty crap. And the good games have gotten bigger and longer when you find them.

      I used to play Civilization, but it doesn't hold a candle to Civilization 4 in so incredbly many ways. I used to play Dune 2, but it doesn't hold a candle to modern RTS games with lousy queue management, no formations and whatnot. I used to play Test Drive, but it doesn't hold a candle to any modern driving game when it comes to realism and immersion. When you take off the rose-colored glasses a lot of the old games lack features you'd expect today. A lot of the time the AI is quite pathetic. A lot of the genres liks MMORPGs or Sims-style games didn't exist. A lot is that you're not 15 anymore and demand different things from games.

      There are a few gems that survive the test of time, but it's a bit like comparing the very, very best of the last 50 years of music against last years hits. They don't "compare" as 90% of that will be forgotten, but then we've already forgotten the crappy 90% of the past. To each his own, but every so often I find a game that makes me go "Wow, we're really made progress here". I think that if you can't see it, you're a bit too blinded by presumption to look.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    85. Re:Multiple interpretations by IndustrialComplex · · Score: 1

      Windows too. Wonder how much more popular Linux would be in the developing world if Windows wasn't so easy to pirate? Microsoft is locking in a whole generation of consumers and it's costing them zero in marketing. Hard to argue with that isn't it?

      You mean you wonder how much more popular Linux would be if it adopted a model where copying it and distributing it to as many people as possible without legal repercussions or copyright infringement lawsuits?

      We've been going about it the wrong way all this time!

      --
      Out of modpoints but really liked a post? 1BDkF6TtmmeZ3yqXbz9yhdYVqRYnwFoXDj
    86. Re:Multiple interpretations by Junior+J.+Junior+III · · Score: 1

      Also, keep in mind that many people's ISPs are also content middle men: the cable company, the digital satellite tv company, even the phone company is packaging television packages these days. They all have a stake in preserving restricted pay-for-access to the content they're selling access to.

      All the RIAA needs to do is send cox, comcast, and time-warner a graph showing the increase in bittorrent traffic and a corresponding decrease in pay-per-view and premium channel subscription, and they'll get the picture pretty quickly.

      --
      You see? You see? Your stupid minds! Stupid! Stupid!
    87. Re:Multiple interpretations by M.+Baranczak · · Score: 3, Interesting

      How do you spoof an IP address?

      Short answer: you can't.

      Long answer: you can, but only in very limited circumstances.

      Even longer answer: One way to do it is to simply alter the IP packets that leave your machine so that they show a different return address. This requires hacking your modem, but it can be done. The problem is that the other end of the connection now has no way of sending data back to you. Which means that TCP won't work at all, since it requires confirmation for each packet. The only time when this is useful is if 1) you're using a UDP-based protocol, and 2) you don't care about the data that may be sent back.

      Another way is to take control of your ISP's router. In which case, you can redirect the traffic to anywhere you want, and all bets are off. But I imagine this is pretty damn hard to pull off.

      So I don't really know what the guy was talking about when he said that this is "easy". He runs an ISP, so he should (theoretically) know better. Maybe he was just hoping that the lawyers don't know any of this.

    88. Re:Multiple interpretations by mcgrew · · Score: 2, Informative

      DOOM had no better graphics than its predecessor Wolfenstien. The physics in 1995's Road Rash were a bit lacking, but the graphics were every bit as "pretty" as 1997's Quake II, which wasn't really any prettier than the original Quake.

      Screamer II was the epitomy of insane graphics - no PC on the market at the time of its release was fast enough to run it in its highest resolution and all the extras turned on. By the time computers caught up with it, it wouldn't run on them because it was a DOS game and running it in DOS mode had no sound.

      IMO the PC gaming companies are insane. They write these games for rich kids, and rich kids only - you have to have thousands of dollars worth of equipment, then pay $60 and up for the game itself. It's madness. They should write for today's top end machines, not tomorrow's. They should write the games so that if you have a video card that costs twice what an Xbox costs you'll get the graphics, yet if you have a normal $50 video card the game will still play.

      And they should sell them for a far lower price. A movie costs from millions to hundreds of millions of dollars to produce, but I can buy a DVD for between five and twenty bucks. It is a rare game that has a production budget of over ten million, yet they sell for three times what the most expensive DVD costs.

      Sorry George, sorry Warren, but you guys are thieves like that Madhoff guy. Sixty bucks for a game is an incredible ripoff.

      I used to be an avid gamer, no more. The equipment hurdles are far, far too high and the price of the games themselves is insane. Drop your equipment requirements down to the average PC and cut the price by at least a third, and you'll sell ten times as many games.

      A sixty dollar game that needs a $2000 PC To run? You guys are insane.

    89. Re:Multiple interpretations by Paradise+Pete · · Score: 1

      The CEO of the RIAA is doing what he/she is legally obligated to do: maximize profits.

      Yeah ok. It might be his job, but it's hardly a legal obligation.

    90. Re:Multiple interpretations by Pichu0102 · · Score: 1

      Couldn't the ISPs kick the user off the network but still force them to stay true to the contract: IE keep playing for the service they were kicked out of until their contract expires?

    91. Re:Multiple interpretations by mcgrew · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      Sorry, I'm going through a rough time right now. Women and kids - and the kids are women. My daughter Patty hates my roommate Charlie (Charlie's a girl) and my other daughter is giving me a hard time too. Meanwhile Charlie and I are fighting like cats and dogs, I'm about to throw her out.

      Slashdot is my escape.

    92. Re:Multiple interpretations by Lobster+Quadrille · · Score: 1

      Wait, you seriously thought that those shows weren't going to suck?

      I'm all for piracy, but your excuses for doing it are pretty weak. Suck it up and buy the stuff, or pirate it and stop your whining.

      As was mentioned earlier, there is always rentals, reviews and borrowing from a friend. If those aren't valid options for you... tough shit. The discontinued-tv-shows-industry doesn't owe you a favor.

      --
      "The cup is in turn designed for holding hot or cold liquids, and has an open rim and closed base." --US Patent #5425497
    93. Re:Multiple interpretations by SoupGuru · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Slashdot is news for nerds and nerds are typically well educated. Education is correlated with the left side of the political spectrum. So here you have an internet discussion involving nerds and I don't think it would be any surprise that the majority opinions reflect most of those you listed. There aren't many righties on here unless you count the libertarians, of which there are quite a few.

      --
      What doesn't kill you only delays the inevitable
    94. Re:Multiple interpretations by Atrox666 · · Score: 1

      The recording and movie industry have screwed us for as much as they can for decades. We have that kind of relationship thanks to them. It's now time for them to reap what they have sown. The only difference is that they own politicians so they get to make laws.

    95. Re:Multiple interpretations by MrMr · · Score: 1

      Well, in the past you would be dangling from main-yard for even a single case of piracy.
      The trick is to have the draconian punishment in place first and then gently change the crimes to fit.

    96. Re:Multiple interpretations by Ajaxamander · · Score: 1

      Whooosh.

    97. Re:Multiple interpretations by mishehu · · Score: 1

      There is also a significant difference between short-term and long-term gains. It seems that everybody who says something to the effect of "officers of a corporation have a legal duty to maximize profits" only ever look at the short-term gains. Officers of a corporation or other entity are to *look out for the entity's best interests*, which do not necessarily mean financial gain.

    98. Re:Multiple interpretations by drsmithy · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The thing of it is that copyright law IS a reasonable reflection of reality.

      If that were true, copyright infringement wouldn't be considered a significant problem because only a tiny minority of people would be doing it.

      When lots of people are breaking law, or do not consider others breaking it to be particularly "wrong", that's nearly always a good indication that the law is bad. The most obvious problem with copyright is term lengths. That copyright lasts an instant past the death of the owner at all, is unjustifiable, but even the fixed multi-decade terms of yesteryear are still too long in today's world.

      But since the RIAA began their lawsuit campaign, they've taken their interpretation of copyright law, which was against both the letter and spirit of the law, and shoved it down the public's throat.

      I think the RIAA's "interpretation" to be quite in line with both the general principles behind copyright (control over a work by its "creator") and the letter of the law (term extensions, DMCA, etc).

      Considering what most of copyright actually does, imagine what would happen to the creative arts if its legal framework suddenly disappeared. A creative artist trying to get his or her material to market would be caught trying to navigate a minefield, similar for anybody trying to be a distributor. Everybody would be having to protect their work however they could, which could translate into contracts being required before a submission even could be made, and for the end user, extremely restrictive DRM - after all, there would be nothing but DRM to protect a distributor's work from other distributors. It would be a crippling blow to the creative industry.

      It would certainly be a major blow to the distribution industry, and several other hangers-on, but about the only creative industry I could see really suffering would be books (which are already in significant trouble due to several other factors).

      Now, the public is very aware of copyright, and they've got the wrong idea of what it is and what it does. Re-educating people is going to be a long road.

      I think people now have a much more accurate idea of what copyright does and why, and just how far away that is from the struggling inventor or artist that is offered up as a justification for it. Further, I think that is finally helping them realise that the extraordinary privileges (both in scope and generosity) society heaps upon "creative artists" is rarely provides a worthwhile ROI.

    99. Re:Multiple interpretations by StalinsNotDead · · Score: 1

      The person you responded to was pointing out the other person's use of oh contrair instead of au contraire.

      --
      Thanks to the internet, we can now all die alone together! -SomeWoman
    100. Re:Multiple interpretations by Lunatrik · · Score: 1

      Oddly enough, EA is just now (As of yesterday, I think) putting their catalog on Steam.
      Also, try X3: Terran Conflict off of Steam for a good space sim - I was not at all a fan of X2 (waaay too complicated) or X3: Reunion (played a demo), but X3:TC does a great job in redesigning the interface so that it is accessible to folks like me (coming out of a Escape Velocity (Ambrosia Software) background largely, too young for Elite and whatnot, although I did play the text-based Federation back when it was on AOL...) -L

    101. Re:Multiple interpretations by Shadow-isoHunt · · Score: 1

      I'd bet that the reason we don't see another monkey island or similar is due to piracy.

      And how does that make you feel knowing that the publisher spends more time thinking about people that aren't their customers, than you? Shouldn't they just be worried about making their customer happy? I mean, they still turn a profit when they publish, and Stardock managed to get quite a bit of a following with Sins of a Solar Empire without resulting to DRM.

      The only up is that online games are having a ball, since cracking those are harder. My hope is that someday it will be feasible to simply host the game on some server and deliver all the content over the net, so that we can get rid of the arrrrggghh pirates.

      And when some jackass decides to DDoS your content/directory servers to grief a couple hundred thousand people, I'll laugh because you rent your games and have no control by design. I'll do the same when your content provider decides the ROI on supporting an old game isn't enough to justify the hosting expenses.

      --
      www.isoHunt.com
    102. Re:Multiple interpretations by Garwulf · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Well, a lot of that argument depends on whether you feel that intellectual property can and should be left as a legacy for children and grandchildren. I'm of the opinion that it should, but then again, I also have a stake in that. Your mileage may vary, and certainly seems to.

      However, I've noticed something in American copyright complaints that makes me suggest that up here in Canada we have something you're missing in the U.S., assuming that is where you're located. In Canada, if a copyrighted work is effectively orphaned, there is a mechanism to bring it into the public domain early. If that doesn't exist in the United States, I can see why so many Americans are concerned about the term resembling a perpetual term (although it really isn't, particularly in the United States where a number of works lost their copyright protection in the 20s and 30s during the short copyright terms).

      Another thing I've noticed is that economics tends to be downplayed in copyright arguments, which is a serious issue if you know how the creative industry works. Whether a work survives the test of time has very little to do with copyright, and a lot to do with how well the work is selling. In fact, having the work in copyright longer can improve the work's chances of survival, as it increases the length of time that the work has a champion.

      All in all, it is a pretty complicated issue. The RIAA has gone and shoved a lot of misinformation into it, and done everybody a disservice, I think.

      --
      Robert B. Marks
      Author, Demonsbane in Diablo Archive
    103. Re:Multiple interpretations by theaveng · · Score: 1

      Well it doesn't look like the law is going to change to stop the RIAA CEO, but instead change to make his suing of citizens even more destructive. According to the Maryland Declaration of Rights, "All Government of right originates from the People, is founded in compact only, and instituted solely for the good of the whole; and they have, at all times, the inalienable right to alter, reform or abolish their Form of Government in such manner as they may deem expedient."

      Most states have similar clauses. The RIAA CEO either stops his campaign of destruction upon the citizens, or he faces the ultimate punishment reserved for all tyrants that do not heed the People's wishes.

      *
      * I use the label of tyrant because the CEO's actions have consequences as severe as that of a government leader: Destruction of lives & imprisonment of citizens. Perhaps you'll better understand when the RIAA CEO comes after you and slaps a million-dollar lawsuit on your person.

        Maybe then you'll be less inclined to defend the CEO.

      --
      FOX NEWS.com should be BANNED from television and internet. Have the Congress take it over and give us Truespeak.
    104. Re:Multiple interpretations by quiberon2 · · Score: 1

      It's not likely that the ISP would stay in business long if they did that. I imagine it would be considered criminal fraud if you kept taking someone's money and stopped providing the service you had contracted to provide.

    105. Re:Multiple interpretations by Ctrl+V · · Score: 1

      Screamer II was the epitomy of insane graphics - no PC on the market at the time of its release was fast enough to run it in its highest resolution and all the extras turned on. By the time computers caught up with it, it wouldn't run on them because it was a DOS game and running it in DOS mode had no sound.

      IMO the PC gaming companies are insane. They write these games for rich kids, and rich kids only - you have to have thousands of dollars worth of equipment, then pay $60 and up for the game itself. It's madness. They should write for today's top end machines, not tomorrow's. They should write the games so that if you have a video card that costs twice what an Xbox costs you'll get the graphics, yet if you have a normal $50 video card the game will still play.

      And they should sell them for a far lower price. A movie costs from millions to hundreds of millions of dollars to produce, but I can buy a DVD for between five and twenty bucks. It is a rare game that has a production budget of over ten million, yet they sell for three times what the most expensive DVD costs.

      So am I the only one who thinks it's great that games might be designed with the ability to scale its graphics as new hardware comes out after the release of the game?

      I mean, I understand where you're coming from about cost and target market re: rich kids. But 1) your numbers are outdated, you can get a screaming gaming machine for under $1k, and 2) that target market you mention is made of people for whom half the fun is building and overclocking their pc.

      Poorly written/optimized code aside, it's not like you *have to* run a game with all the graphics options set to UltraHigh to enjoy it. At least if it's a game worth playing.

    106. Re:Multiple interpretations by Ctrl+V · · Score: 1

      Look at it as how much money you wasted... $20 for a couple months of Netflix (or similar) vs. $200 purchasing. That's a $180 difference - in your favor.

    107. Re:Multiple interpretations by EL_mal0 · · Score: 1

      My kingdom for a mod point. Very well said, sir!

    108. Re:Multiple interpretations by Garwulf · · Score: 1, Informative

      There's a lot of faulty logic here.

      "If that were true, copyright infringement wouldn't be considered a significant problem because only a tiny minority of people would be doing it."

      In what industry? In the majority of industries, piracy is NOT the norm, and it is only the minority who are doing it. The only industry where I've seen any respectable figures that measure piracy is the games industry, and they are quite alarming.

      Also, you're projecting the human instinct to get free swag as a social statement - it's not. People will generally take anything they can for free, even if it's something they'd never use. And, the internet is a place you can get a lot of things for free. So, having pirated material easily accessible simply means that people have easy access to it, and are likely to use it, not that the law is broken.

      Now, what can and can not be enforced is a different matter, and far more complicated.

      "I think the RIAA's "interpretation" to be quite in line with both the general principles behind copyright (control over a work by its "creator") and the letter of the law (term extensions, DMCA, etc)."

      Considering that your opinion is not shared by the courts, who have repeatedly hammered the RIAA on legal grounds, among others, I think your opinion is somewhat flawed. If the RIAA really did represent the letter or spirit of the law, they would have won more cases, and a class-action suit would not have been filed against them.

      Tell me - have you ever actually read the law? Have you gone to the source itself?

      "It would certainly be a major blow to the distribution industry, and several other hangers-on, but about the only creative industry I could see really suffering would be books (which are already in significant trouble due to several other factors)."

      Sales may certainly be dropping, but the book industry is one that frequently does over a billion dollars of business per month in the United States alone. It's still pretty big.

      Aside from which, you've made another leap of logic here - you're assuming that the distribution industry doesn't impact the creative end. You can have the most wonderful book, painting, song, or film in the world, and it doesn't mean squat if you can't get it out to people. Content distribution itself isn't necessarily cheap - trust me on this one, I have to do it. It certainly isn't often easy.

      "I think people now have a much more accurate idea of what copyright does and why, and just how far away that is from the struggling inventor or artist that is offered up as a justification for it. Further, I think that is finally helping them realise that the extraordinary privileges (both in scope and generosity) society heaps upon "creative artists" is rarely provides a worthwhile ROI."

      And I think you just proved my point about misinformation and the difficulties in making people understand what copyright really is and does.

      --
      Robert B. Marks
      Author, Demonsbane in Diablo Archive
    109. Re:Multiple interpretations by Hatta · · Score: 2, Insightful

      DOOM had no better graphics than its predecessor Wolfenstien. The physics in 1995's Road Rash were a bit lacking, but the graphics were every bit as "pretty" as 1997's Quake II, which wasn't really any prettier than the original Quake.

      That's hardly accurate. Doom had mouselook and angles other than 90 degrees. It also had varied lighting. That certainly contributes to Doom looking better than Wolf 3d. Road rash, I don't remember that being fully 3d modeled. They still used FMV captured sprites, so it looks worse than the original Quake, let alone Quake II.

      IMO the PC gaming companies are insane. They write these games for rich kids, and rich kids only - you have to have thousands of dollars worth of equipment, then pay $60 and up for the game itself. It's madness. They should write for today's top end machines, not tomorrow's. They should write the games so that if you have a video card that costs twice what an Xbox costs you'll get the graphics, yet if you have a normal $50 video card the game will still play.

      Today's top of the line card is tomorrows bargain bin card. The early adopters help subsidize the rest of us, you should be thanking them not cursing them. Just be patient and the prices come down.

      I used to be an avid gamer, no more. The equipment hurdles are far, far too high and the price of the games themselves is insane. Drop your equipment requirements down to the average PC and cut the price by at least a third, and you'll sell ten times as many games.

      You don't have to run the latest and greatest to have fun gaming. The average PC can play titles from 2-3 years ago which still look spectacular and will cost less than a brand new title. I'm certain there's a shit-ton of games from the 90s that are still excellent ways to spend your time too. If you really don't care about graphics, you'll have just as much fun playing Ultima Underworld as you will Fallout 3.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    110. Re:Multiple interpretations by jbezorg · · Score: 1

      "What are you here for?"
      "Eating babies. And you?"
      "Whistling a song in public."
      "Friking depraved garbage! I hope you rot in hell."

      Go sit on the Group W bench.

      --
      I've lost all my marbles except one & It's fun to test angular & centripetal acceleration in my skull
    111. Re:Multiple interpretations by Courageous · · Score: 1

      The public has the wrong idea? What idea does the public have?

      C//

    112. Re:Multiple interpretations by toleraen · · Score: 1

      A movie costs from millions to hundreds of millions of dollars to produce, but I can buy a DVD for between five and twenty bucks.

      Games at full price are the equivalent of the theatrical release of a movie. You get to enjoy it as soon as it's available to the public. If you want the DVD experience, feel free to wait 6 to 12 months for the game to get a "gold edition" or "greatest hits" release at $20-$30. Any of the good ones do.

      A sixty dollar game that needs a $2000 PC To run? You guys are insane.

      What are you blabbering about? My $600 "gaming" machine runs everything that's come out recently with all the goodies turned on. Besides, games like Crysis still ran fine on "current" systems when it was released. You just couldn't have all the eye candy turned on...and even then it still looked better than most other games.

    113. Re:Multiple interpretations by yanos · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The parent said "making good playable games is less profitable than making lousy games with pretty graphics", I don't think he meant pitching old games from the 90s against what you find in the current generation.

      World of Goo was an awesome game and its gameplay didn't seem dated, nor was there some feature you feel was missing. It still feels like a modern game, despite not being a polygon powerhouse.

      Currently there is an obsession with triple A games in the industry that go way beyond my comprehension. Everything is hype with graphics, most of the time to the detriment of gameplay, scenario and (the biggest blunder of all) art direction. Because everything now as to be REALISTISTIC!

      So back to the original point, no, I don't think it's piracy that prevent good game from seeing the light of the day. It just doesn't sell as much and therefore is too risky. And the gaming industry has severe allergy problem with risk.

    114. Re:Multiple interpretations by GhaleonStrife · · Score: 1

      The question is, what do you do when they actually give you the money you ask for? Do you go to the post office the following morning? If I have a need for something ASAP, I'll pay the extra money, and I'm sure that other people under pressure to get something before a certain date will do the same, or take their business somewhere else that can get the item to them by the time they need it.

    115. Re:Multiple interpretations by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      I'd waited years for DOOM 3. When I bought it I'd just bought a new motherboard and video card.

      It would not run on my machine, and I'd paid over a hundred bucks on the card. I'd wasted $60 on the game, I'll never buy another PC game again.

    116. Re:Multiple interpretations by theaveng · · Score: 2, Insightful

      >>>The CEO of the RIAA is doing what he/she is legally obligated to do: maximize profits.

      He's legally obligated to destroy, attack, and ruin citizens' lives? I'm sorry but that only makes the person evil in my book. "I'm just following orders" is not a valid defense.

      --
      FOX NEWS.com should be BANNED from television and internet. Have the Congress take it over and give us Truespeak.
    117. Re:Multiple interpretations by theaveng · · Score: 0, Troll

      >>>Wait, you seriously thought that those shows weren't going to suck?

      I have no way of knowing if a show is going to be good or bad prior to watching it. For example I bought Season 2 of Heroes, and it was lousy. How was I supposed to know it was lousy until AFTER I had watched it? I wasted $50.

      How you can sit here and defend policies that allow consumers to waste $50 and not be able to get a refund makes no logical sense to me (unless you own stock in RIAA).

      --
      FOX NEWS.com should be BANNED from television and internet. Have the Congress take it over and give us Truespeak.
    118. Re:Multiple interpretations by AceofSpades19 · · Score: 1

      so that we can get rid of the arrrrggghh pirates.

      End rant :)

      You mean these pirates http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5h4fq-7G0Z-9La1naAUm11RXFQiFAD956FIVO0 oh how silly of me to think there are actual pirates that actually hurt people

    119. Re:Multiple interpretations by theaveng · · Score: 0, Troll

      >>>Suck it up and buy the stuff

      It must be nice to having a rich mommny-and-daddy who can buy whatever you want. I don't have that luxury, therefore I can't afford to waste $50 on the lousy Season 2 of Heroes.

      --
      FOX NEWS.com should be BANNED from television and internet. Have the Congress take it over and give us Truespeak.
    120. Re:Multiple interpretations by tehcyder · · Score: 1
      You're broadly correct, but try posting an anti-gun or anti-Christian post and watch the response you get, I'd say there's at least as many pro-Gun-and-God fans as otherwise.

      Also you forgot that Government is evil, libertarianism is the only acceptable political system.

      See, we all have our biases.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    121. Re:Multiple interpretations by Toll_Free · · Score: 0, Troll

      And I warn Scroggins that if he wants to be taken seriously, he needs to actually use words in context.

      "Scroggin warns that the film and music industries must try a new tack if they want cooperation from ISPs."

      Should actually read "Scroggin warns that the film and music industries must try a new TACTIC if they want cooperation from ISPs."

      It utterly amazes me how many idiots there are in the world today. I mean, I remember hearing Grandpa screaming about how the educational system was failing, Mom yelled and hollered about the "dumbing down of America", and everyone stood still.

      Then we screamed about the overrunning of our borders, and were all labeled racist. Now, it's the seemingly (un)popular thing to do.

      Wow, what's that shit called? Hindsight?

      Anyway, back to the original diatribe: Why the FUCK can't people use words in context, in ways they actually mean something, and why do people try to use sayings they don't even know the words to? ./end_rant

      --Toll_Free

    122. Re:Multiple interpretations by Omestes · · Score: 1

      I'd bet that the reason we don't see another monkey island or similar is due to piracy.

      Doubtful. While piracy may be around 1/3rd of internet traffic (which I do somewhat doubt), I'm guessing that most piracy is music and 600mb-ish avi rips of movies. Games are a rather steep and time consuming thing to pirate. Which isn't to say that it isn't common, just not to the volume of other "lighter" forms of media.

      Also in my experience, most people are limited to what they can pirate from Soulseek and Rapidshare links, since Bittorrent is slightly too geeky for the hoi polloi. This is based on my college experiences a few years ago. The only people I knew who used BT to pirate things were the actual nerds, which your average business or art major being stuck with the simpler (and thus less able to handle a 5gb+ file) solutions.

      Heck, I can hardly get my gf to use Bittorrent, and she is slightly more computer literate than most.

      I'd bet that the reason we don't see another monkey island or similar is due to piracy.

      No. Games like Monkey Island died because the demand for them dried up. How well did the recent Sam and Max games do on the console? Not very. I pick the console versions because it is harder to pirate these games, so the numbers are more likely to be unsullied by piracy. The adventure genre is pretty much dead. I'm not sure why, and anything I'd advance would be largely supposition, but I'm guessing it has to do with the console market bringing more action "players" to the scene, which causes development houses to focus more on them. Also, perhaps, they just don't meet the needs of modern gamers. Adventure elements are perhaps best blended into a more immersible game genre, and seem rather antiquated on their own.

      All blatant supposition. But the fact remains that I'm pretty sure that piracy wasn't the main actor in the death of that genre.

      My hope is that someday it will be feasible to simply host the game on some server and deliver all the content over the net

      Which would further kill game sales. I wouldn't buy anymore computer games if they were all hosted online. I like the idea of being able to replay my games whenever I want to, tomorrow to 10 years in the future. This is why I'm dubious towards Steam, and the MMO phenomena. We can call Steam a success, but when we look at the total gaming market, it still is dominated by games based on physical media (console games), and will probably stay that way. If you spend $60 for a game, most people want a physical copy to sit on their shelf.

      If all games were hosted online, think of all the gems we would be denied access to today. The first two gems of the Fallout series comes to mind, as does Total Annihilation.

      Basically you are suggesting a draconian DRM scheme, worse than the one built into games like Spore. Instead of having to phone home sometimes, it has to constantly phone home. Which doesn't work for me, at least, since I often feel like playing on my laptop, which by its very nature isn't always in a play with convenient free wifi. Many people are like this.

      The future of gaming is consoles, and craptacular services like Steam, which are wholly based on your trust of the solvency of the company involved.

      Part of the problem is pricing. $60 a game is beginning to border on absurd. I find it hard to fit them into my spending cycle. Yes, development costs are as high as movies now, but the developers don't have to spend that much to make a quality game (as the history of gaming tells us). When the price is higher than the market can bare, then bad things happen. Right now they have a crutch of blaming piracy, but it just obfuscates the more basic facts.

      That said, I do think that the optimal medium for modern adventure games would be flash, or some other web based scheme. It fits the genre better than $300 worth of video hardware.

      --
      A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government. -edward abbey
    123. Re:Multiple interpretations by theaveng · · Score: 1

      $0 does wasted sounds better.

      If the corporations want more than that, then they need to produce QUALITY shows like Star Trek TOS, TNG, DS9. Or 24 or the New Galactica. Or HBO's Rome/Sopranos. Those shows I'm willing to pay full price in order to add to my collection.

      Else they get $0.

      --
      FOX NEWS.com should be BANNED from television and internet. Have the Congress take it over and give us Truespeak.
    124. Re:Multiple interpretations by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'd bet that the reason we don't see another monkey island or similar is due to piracy.

      Citation needed. (I never played it myself, but maybe it just sucked?)

      Also, this assumes that every person who pirates a game/song would have bought it otherwise. The vast majority of pirates would never have paid for it to start with, so the company isn't actually making any less money than they would without piracy.

      It's the same argument we heard the RIAA made back in the 80's; it was "OMFG people are going to stop buying cassettes because now they can just record the music from the radio! We're gonna go bankrupt & all music on the planet will cease to exist!". And despite everybody & their dogs making 'mix tapes' and recording music from the radio, album sales soared to all-time record highs.

      So no, people pirating the music don't hurt the bottom line. The only piracy that impacts sales to any extent is actually called "counterfeiting" i.e. when someone produces & sells hard-copy CD's, etc.

      The only up is that online games are having a ball, since cracking those are harder. My hope is that someday it will be feasible to simply host the game on some server and deliver all the content over the net, so that we can get rid of the arrrrggghh pirates.

      This is actually done quite frequently. Many online games, especially mmorpg's, do exactly this. The ones who still make you buy a copy from the retail outlet are just trying to gouge you for even more cash. They base their business on revenue from subscriptions, the copies of the game discs themselves are just more gravy for the profit coffers.
      As an example, last time I checked you could download WoW for free direct from Blizzard, and they certainly aren't suffering.

    125. Re:Multiple interpretations by Toll_Free · · Score: 1

      Urg? Is that the sound you utter right before the last breath escapes your lips while someone is strangling you while you are being analy raped?

      Or is that Arg? I always forget.

      And no problem on the butcher job. At least you realized. No donkey punch for you post Urg.

      --Toll_Free

    126. Re:Multiple interpretations by mcgrew · · Score: 0

      Doom had mouselook and angles other than 90 degrees.

      That's not graphics

      It also had varied lighting.

      So what's so hard about that? So did Duke Nukem 2 (the side scroller).

      Today's top of the line card is tomorrows bargain bin card. The early adopters help subsidize the rest of us, you should be thanking them not cursing them. Just be patient and the prices come down.

      By then the games that use that cars are no longer for sale.

    127. Re:Multiple interpretations by Toll_Free · · Score: 1

      If it's written in the contract that they cannot engage in illegal activities, then they sure are liable for the length of the contract.

      Most contracts have a clause in them that if you are found to be violating a ToS or any other limits or ???, then you are still monetarily on the hook, so to speak.

      Otherwise, it would be a simple matter to get out of any contract you wanted to.

      On another note, a friend of mine in high school would pull a stunt whenever he needed money. He'd go to work for a fast food place, convenience store (basically anywhere he had to interface with the public) for a day. On day 2, He'd enter smoking a cig. That was grounds for dismissal. They had to cut him a check within 24 hours.

      Sure beat waiting 2 weeks for first pay period, then waiting another week for the check to be delivered. Do that two or three times, it makes it easier to get through to the actual check from his "real job" (which was, btw, flippin burgers for somewhere else).

      Same type of thing, though. Just because he screwed up didn't mean the contract he entered by accepting work (and the company by offering) was null and void. Upon termination, they still had to pay him within 24 hours, no matter how stupid the initial act was to get him fired.

      --Toll_Free

    128. Re:Multiple interpretations by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

      Steam is good for players

      Stop. Just stop. I disagree so strongly that I can't even continue reading beyond that assertion.

      In my opinion, Steam is absolutely the worst thing for players that has ever happened in the history of gaming. Like other forms of online activation, it takes the control out of the hands of the player. Even if you play single player, you're only allowed to use the software that you legally purchased as long as (a) you don't have to reinstall and (b) their servers are still willing to authenticate you. In other words, they get to decide how long you're allowed to keep playing. That should be absolutely unacceptable to anyone, especially this crowd who is so adamant about their rights to do what they want with what they've purchased.

      I don't want to redownload it if I have to reinstall. I don't want them to back up all my settings to transfer to a new computer. Let me burn it all to a CD or DVD and transfer everything manually. I'm willing to deal with the risk of losing everything because I can take steps to prevent it. If someone else has the control, I can do nothing.

      The worst part about it is not that it's heavy-handed and draconian; the worst part is that it isn't. Because it's easy and unobtrusive, it's tricked millions of gamers into thinking it's okay to give up that control. I never thought I would see Slashdotters singing praises to a form of DRM that so completely and effectively eliminates their rights. I would think we would be so up in arms about it that we would be descending on the headquarters of Valve with torches and pitchforks. But all I hear is that Steam is the greatest thing ever. Was there some kind of subliminal message or brainwashing technique that somehow passed me by? Because I can't imagine any rational person accepting it.

      So now gaming companies have a pattern to look to. Valve has discovered how to sell games while still not letting the players actually own anything. Look to more companies to do the same, because they see they can get away with it. And some of those companies will take down their authentication servers a week after going live because they didn't hit their target sales and therefore can't afford to keep running the servers. But the gamers have already paid, so at least they got their money, and that's all they care about.

      I hate to be a prophet of doom and gloom, but the popularity of Steam is certainly pushing us toward a day when you can no longer play any games without someone else's permission, and you have no guarantee, even after giving them your money, that they will give you that permission.

      And no, a vague promise of "If we ever stop the authentication servers, we'll put out a patch so that it doesn't need it" doesn't count. There's a well-known term for software that's promised but not yet written: Vaporware.

      Sorry about the rant. I just had to get it off my chest.

      Posting anonymously because I'm sure to get downmodded for being a troll, even though this is my honest opinion.

    129. Re:Multiple interpretations by Lobster+Quadrille · · Score: 1

      If you can't afford it, go without. As noted, the entertainment industry doesn't owe you anything, and you don't have to have it.

      If you bought it and didn't like it, consider it poorly spent entertainment money. If you go to a concert and the entertainment is lousy, they don't have to give you back the cover charge. If you go to a restaraunt and the food is lousy, they don't have to give you free meals. They can, but they don't have to.

      If $50 is a huge chunk of change for you, you really should be renting or borrowing, as others have noted. I don't feel sorry for you because you make bad purchasing decisions.

      Again, I have nothing against piracy and see it as a viable alternative to buying DVDs. I certainly have no interest in the RIAA, but I don't try to justify my actions, and I certainly don't blame others when I waste money.

      And for the record, Season 2 of Heroes was excellent.

      --
      "The cup is in turn designed for holding hot or cold liquids, and has an open rim and closed base." --US Patent #5425497
    130. Re:Multiple interpretations by Lobster+Quadrille · · Score: 1

      It must be nice to having a rich mommny-and-daddy who can buy whatever you want.

      It probably would be. I don't see what that has to do with anything.

      --
      "The cup is in turn designed for holding hot or cold liquids, and has an open rim and closed base." --US Patent #5425497
    131. Re:Multiple interpretations by BitZtream · · Score: 1

      imagine what would happen to the creative arts if its legal framework suddenly disappeared

      It would go back to the way it was before the legal framework existed? And by that I mean individual producing some reasonable content that others could enjoy while the original artist was compensated fairly. And before you jump on 'its not fair', explain why art existed before copyright or shut up. Art existed before copyright, not the other way around. And before there was copyright, artists got paid and made a living producing their art. The difference was, they actually had to work for their money, rather than work for a little while then make so much money they never have to work again, while continuing to make money on the work they had done previously.

      Copyright creates services where you can do something one time, then be compensated for it multiple times without actually doing anything new. Sorry if your view is that artists should be rich for their one hit wonder, but the rest of the world who actually works for a living doesn't share that point with you.

      --
      Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
    132. Re:Multiple interpretations by theaveng · · Score: 1

      >>>As noted, the entertainment industry doesn't owe you anything, and you don't have to have it.

      Yes that's true, but as noted OTHER industries provide a guarantee of satisfaction. If the TV has a lousy picture, you can get a refund. If a Playstation does not work, same deal. If the service at the hotel was shit, you don't pay. TV shows should have the same guarantee.

      >>>If you go to a concert and the entertainment is lousy, they don't have to give you back the cover charge.

      But they should. See my first paragraph for reasons why.

      --
      FOX NEWS.com should be BANNED from television and internet. Have the Congress take it over and give us Truespeak.
    133. Re:Multiple interpretations by robot_love · · Score: 1

      No, he's legally obligated to protect his company's interests to the extent permitted by the law.

      People are sharing music with each other, which is not legal according to US law. He is using legal means to prevent this from happening. This isn't the problem. The problem is the law that allows it to happen.

      The whole point of this little conversation is that it's irrational to suggest (as you did) killing someone for doing a legal action, when the real problem lies with the laws that make his actions legal.

      However, maybe rationality isn't your strong suit. After all, if suing someone to stop them from breaking the law makes a person evil, surely advocating the murder of these law-abiding citizens must surely make you much more evil?

      --
      .there is enough of everything for everyone.
    134. Re:Multiple interpretations by theaveng · · Score: 1

      >>>The question is, what do you do when they actually give you the money you ask for? Do you go to the post office the following morning?

      Of course, but that's never happened because even though my customers are often in a hurry to meet the Christmas date, they don't actually want to spend $50 just so they can their Batman DVD shipped immediately. It's one of those deals where you can be 99.9% certain the customer will say no.

      Same deal with the ISP Owner in the article. He knows full well that RIAA's not going to cough up the thousands of dollars needed to cover his expenses to block pirates. RIAA's too cheap.

      --
      FOX NEWS.com should be BANNED from television and internet. Have the Congress take it over and give us Truespeak.
    135. Re:Multiple interpretations by Lobster+Quadrille · · Score: 1

      Try not paying at a hotel sometime because you didn't like the service. That'll be fun.

      Sure, you can talk to the manager and maybe he'll give you a freebie, but he doesn't have to. Doesn't matter if he should. He doesn't have to.

      --
      "The cup is in turn designed for holding hot or cold liquids, and has an open rim and closed base." --US Patent #5425497
    136. Re:Multiple interpretations by BitZtream · · Score: 1

      when is the last time you saw a decent flight sim? Or, more specifically my personal favorite - space flight sims.

      www.x-plane.com

      Been a fan of x-plane since I first tried 6.x, its a geeks dream as it is highly accurate based on blade element theory for modeling aerodynamics, allows you to plugin external apps via plugins or network connections, has support for lots monitors (I've seen people with 7 hooked up to it), has software to plugin REAL aircraft hardware for simulation purposes like GPS displays. Certified by the FAA for training, used by the SpaceShip/WhiteKnight guys to train before they fly the real deal. Comes with a full aircraft editor that is capable of making and simulating just about anything you can throw at it, as well as editors for various other bits of the world in which the simulator runs. Comes with complete terrain maps for the entire globe, most large cities look nice and some people have made a few of the airports spot on accurate.

      Also on that page is Space Combat. Uses the same basic engine as x-plane but in space.

      Runs on Windows, Linux, OS X, and the iPhone, and its even actually impressive on the iPhone, although I must say unless you just want to see your iPhone running a flight simulator, its not worth the money.

      I'm not in any way affiliated with X-Plane, its just a damn good simulator.

      --
      Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
    137. Re:Multiple interpretations by Myopic · · Score: 1

      "Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have ... The course of history shows that as a government grows, liberty decreases."

      Huh. Well this is obviously untrue. More Americans enjoy far more liberty today than at any period in American history, perhaps in human history. Yeah, it's not perfect, but we're doing a lot better than our grandparents did, despite the extra government we choose to have.

    138. Re:Multiple interpretations by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not really - it would be very difficult to do. Even if you managed to somehow complete the TCP handshake with a spoofed IP address, you've still got to continue talking the bittorrent protocol without knowing what anyone else is saying.

      And at the end of the day, you haven't actually received any forged data because it's all gone to some non-existant IP address. You would need some kind of proxy or botnet - but then why are you even bothering to spoof the IP packets. Why not just use bittorrent through the proxy or on the botnet?

      At the end of the day, no one is going to bother spoofing an IP address unless they actually want to frame someone (that is the argument you will have to use).

    139. Re:Multiple interpretations by Omestes · · Score: 1

      The thing of it is that copyright law IS a reasonable reflection of reality. And as a creative artist and distributor myself, that's what annoyed me so much about the RIAA lawsuits - it made something that was realistic and reasonable look in the public eye like some sort of club for extorting money from dead grandmothers.

      People might be more mindful of copyright, if copyright was actually a "creator" thing and not a "publisher" (i.e. faceless corporate) thing. How many artists actually hold their own copyrights? If you really could make the argument that every time you download a MP3 your stealing money from an actual group of dirty guys with guitars which you are somewhat attached to via your fandom, then you could drum up some popular sympathy. But right now all you can say is that your stealing from a faceless multi-billion-dollar multinational with a well know propensity of stealing from artists.

      Its easier to sympathize with real people, than it is with economic constructs. I personally couldn't give a damn if BMI gets a cent of my money on a personal level.

      This also leads to the absurdity of artists not actually being connected to their copyright, either through death, or through selling rights. Can I really feel a moral (or ethical) qualm for downloading The Beatles? I'm depriving Micheal Jackson of money, which might be sad, but that has nothing to do with supporting Ringo, or anyone else who actually put work into the product itself.

      Can I consider myself a thief for downloading an Ella Fitzgerald recording? She's dead, she sees no benefit of my purchase. I really don't care ethically about supporting her children (say), since they didn't actually DO anything towards the work I'm enjoying.

      Copyright law is NOT rational, and does not match reality or the public's expectations. Copyright should not extent past the artists life, it makes no sense. It was instituted to ensure individual creativity, not financial solvency, or corporate profit margins in perpetuity. It was limited to ensure motivation for further creative acts, it was a limited monopoly on your own creative product.

      It makes no sense to be there to support the artists great grandchildren, they should be capable of holding a job like the rest of us. Having a creative relative should not ensure their financial solvency for life. This argument is bogus, having copyright extend past life is only there for corporations to milk money from it, which is not the goal of copyright. We, the people, are not here to keep Universal, or Virgin, in the black, and the government shouldn't be able to mandate it, at the cost of the communal good that copyright was instituted to ensure.

      Hell, I don't even think copyright should exist for life. Perhaps 20 years after creation, with a renewal (not a free one, but one that requires effort/money). Why the hell should I support someone for making something 50 years ago, when they were young and creative, just so they can rest on their laurels now? Artists should work for a living too, by being artists. If I get a job and assemble a widget, can I be expected to make a living off that widget for my whole adult life, and the life of my children, and the life of my grandchildren, and most of the life of their children? Why is art any different? You should have to continually produce to earn an honest living.

      --
      A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government. -edward abbey
    140. Re:Multiple interpretations by bit01 · · Score: 1

      The thing of it is that copyright law IS a reasonable reflection of reality.

      <sarcasm>Yeah, it's quite reasonable that one person should be able to stop potentially billions of people from copying something</sarcasm>.

      Get a grip, it's a far more complex question than that. Despite the laughable distribution cartel propaganda.

      The law, including copyright and like software, is a creation of the mind and can be anything we want it to be. There are virtually an infinite number of possibilities and to claim that copyright as it is currently implemented is somehow a reasonable representation of "reality" is silly at best and disingenuous at worse.

      ---

      Astroturfing "marketers" are liars, fraudulently misrepresenting company propaganda as objective third party opinion. Anonymous commercial speech should be illegal.

    141. Re:Multiple interpretations by Myopic · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Guns aren't evil, they're awesome.

      Criminals shouldn't be put back on the street, they should be incarcerated in accordance with justice.

      America, despite its faults, is still the best and greatest country ever.

      Homosexuality is deeply unappealing, but otherwise okay.

      Other than that, yeah, you're pretty close.

    142. Re:Multiple interpretations by caseih · · Score: 1

      Similarly I would buy a decent space flight sim, if they'd make it.

      Well go right ahead. It's called X-Plane and it's available on Linux even. The UI is quirky, but the flight model is second to none. Only $50 I think.

    143. Re:Multiple interpretations by Omestes · · Score: 1

      The CEO of the RIAA is doing what he/she is legally obligated to do: maximize profits.

      Which is the problem. Most reasonable people put people above inhuman constructs. The fact that this "legal obligation" to maximize profits is antagonistic (or at best agnostic) to common ethics and morality is a grave problem, which causes more problems today than just the RIAA being legally allowed to run an extortion racket.

      It is, though, a nice example against the nutjob fringe of libertarians and Ayn Randians who somehow think that greed leads to ethics and morality, while skipping the hardwork of actually being ethical or moral. Corporations who act against the good of individuals should be forcibly disbanded. The ultimate ends of any society is for good of the people who comprise it, and any entity acting against this has no right to exist.

      Sorry, going go sit in my corner and quietly reread John Locke and Kant now.

      --
      A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government. -edward abbey
    144. Re:Multiple interpretations by networkBoy · · Score: 1

      you have my sympathy.
      my little girl's friend's mom thinks she's my second wife...
      At least my wife thinks it's funny.

      --
      whois gawk date unzip strip find touch finger mount join nice man top fsck grep eject more yes exit umount sleep dump
    145. Re:Multiple interpretations by BAKup · · Score: 1

      You mean, $8-10 per month, not per disc you rent, for rentals from Netflix and BlockBuster, and with the way the queues work, if you find it sucks at the first disc, you can just remove the rest of the series from the queue right then, and move something else up in the queue to watch. Also with the watch it now for some of the stuff, you don't even need to wait for the discs to arrive in the mail.

      If you were to spend the money you're wasting on bad DVD purchases on subscriptions to Netflix and BlockBuster, you'd end up saving money becuase you'd end up buying fewer bad shows.

    146. Re:Multiple interpretations by theaveng · · Score: 1

      >>>The problem is the law that allows it to happen.

      Yes but just because the law SAYS the CEO can sue people for millions of dollars, does not mean he should. The law might tell me I can sue a dealership who destroys my car for 1 million dollars, but that does not mean I have to press charges. I can choose to just let the dealer go, or sue for a less amount (say $30,000).

      The RIAA CEO doesn't have to sue grandmas and teenage boys for millions-and-millions of dollars - as evidenced by the fact he's decided to stop.

      --
      FOX NEWS.com should be BANNED from television and internet. Have the Congress take it over and give us Truespeak.
    147. Re:Multiple interpretations by theaveng · · Score: 1

      >>>surely advocating the murder of these law-abiding citizens must surely make you much more evil?

      It depends upon who I am killing. I would have no hesitation killing Saddan Hussein. Or Osama Bin Laden. Or a British soldier circa 1780 (as did the American founders). Or Robespierre circa 1790. Citizens have a right to kill tyrants when said tyrants are destroying citizens' private lives.

      --
      FOX NEWS.com should be BANNED from television and internet. Have the Congress take it over and give us Truespeak.
    148. Re:Multiple interpretations by calmofthestorm · · Score: 1

      I'm confused, if you're modifying the machine code wouldn't comments have been stripped out long ago?

      --
      93rd rule of Slashdot: No matter how obvious my sarcasm is, my comment will be taken seriously by someone.
    149. Re:Multiple interpretations by theaveng · · Score: 0, Troll

      >>>advocating the murder of these law-abiding citizens

      I forgot soldiers of the German SS. Sure they're just "following the law" but that does not make their actions acceptable. They KNOW that both the law and their actions are immoral. Had I lived during that time, I would happily aim and fire.

      --
      FOX NEWS.com should be BANNED from television and internet. Have the Congress take it over and give us Truespeak.
    150. Re:Multiple interpretations by calmofthestorm · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It is perpetual, every 10 years Congress extends the life of all currently copyright works for 10 years.

      --
      93rd rule of Slashdot: No matter how obvious my sarcasm is, my comment will be taken seriously by someone.
    151. Re:Multiple interpretations by theaveng · · Score: 0, Troll

      >>>The whole point of this little conversation is that it's irrational to suggest (as you did) killing someone for doing a legal action, when the real problem lies with the laws that make his actions legal.
      >>>

      So the execution of Japanese officers post-WW2 were wrong in your view.
      They were just "following the law". They did nothing wrong.
      Got it.

      I'm glad I don't live in your world where people can commit heinous acts, and justify those acts with "I was just following the law" as they rape or pillage citizens.

      --
      FOX NEWS.com should be BANNED from television and internet. Have the Congress take it over and give us Truespeak.
    152. Re:Multiple interpretations by KillerBob · · Score: 1

      Or just the number of people who think that "reality TV" and (c)rap music are entertaining.

      I'd rather look at the people who make blanket statements like that without considering that generalities are very rarely true. Consider "Reality TV"... there are some "Reality" shows that can be completely entertaining. I quite enjoy shows like Canada's Worst Driver (and its analogs in other markets), even though it's billed as a "Reality" show. I also enjoy shows like The Biggest Loser, and shows like that where it's not a question of being voted off the island, and even if you don't win the big prize, you still win. The thing to consider with TV is that the moment you choose to point a camera at one thing and ignore another, it ceases to be reality.

      Likewise rap music. Whether it's entertaining or not depends on the audience and the message. For a certain audience, it is clearly enjoyable. Just because it doesn't match your personal sensibilities doesn't mean that it's not enjoyable... You also need to consider that there could be exceptions even to your own sensibilities. As specific examples... generally, I loathe rap music. It's annoying. The overwhelming majority of it pisses me off... it just gets me completely and totally angry and makes me want to hurt kittens. So generally, I avoid it. But there's still specific gems that I really enjoy, and have even requested from my local alt/indie rock station... for me to enjoy a rap song, it has to have two main things: It has to actually be poetry, and it has to have a message. So while I'll be screaming bloody murder if you average gangsta rapper is on about his bitches and ho's and his bling, I love songs like Above The Law's Freedom of Speech, or Tupac Shakur's cover of Changes, or Coolio's Gangsta's Paradise.

      --
      If you believe everything you read, you'd better not read. - Japanese proverb
    153. Re:Multiple interpretations by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      The limited monopoly called copyright worked well when it was limited to 14 years and treated nonprofit infringement as noncommercial. Current copyright law discourages creativity and production of new works because it is so skewed to trying to keep the monopolies of huge corporate interests going for over 150 years each and because it treats nonprofit infringement the same as commercial infringement based on an unproven and highly debatable allegation about cumulative impact on the market. The lawsuits not only make the RIAA and MPAA look bad, they expose the level of corruption that create such skewed and broken copyright laws out of a system that was much better 60 years ago. Your defense of IP law would work for the old system, not the current one.

      It you truly think copyright is worth having, you should lobby to have true reform which brings back reasonable limits on the monopoly and expands fair use. If the law were following the original intent and actually tried to balance everyone's interests it would have more support. The way it is now it is broken, and every "reform" make it more obvious our politicians care more about their own campaign funds and relationship to big media than about fairness or the effect on society over time. If IP law were reasonable and balanced, I would support it.

    154. Re:Multiple interpretations by The+Wooden+Badger · · Score: 1

      That's assuming quite a bit. Do you really think the RIAA would add to these feed to their liability? If their costs to sue "pirates" goes up and the legal system increasingly becomes more hostile to their plans, it will get to a point where they can no longer stick with their MO. They don't win the lawsuit and they are out their legal fees AND they have to pay an ISP to do their work for them to provide proof? Then there is the issue of payment. Just sending a billing address doesn't imply that they worked out an agreement on the cost of service. If the RIAA is stupid enough to just send a billing address without working out a fee schedule, doesn't that leave room for the ISP to sue them when they don't pay their fees for providing the services they demanded? The ISP would love the free advertising. I'd think about switching to their ISP if I lived in Louisiana just on principle, and I don't use the internet for file sharing.

      --
      Heroscape, it's like legos combined with anachronistic wargames.
    155. Re:Multiple interpretations by Tsujiku · · Score: 1

      I don't know what games you're talking about, but it's not hard to find most PC games that you would want to play. Things like digital download make this even easier.
      Name one game that is "no longer for sale" made within the last ten years.

      --
      Paradox
    156. Re:Multiple interpretations by hairyfeet · · Score: 1

      Uh, if you read TFA(I know,but I got bored) you would read that he expects to be compensated for each lost customer, which starts at $1440 for a home customer and I assume climbs after that. The RIAA has been expecting everyone to do their work for them while they pay squat. If the other ISPs start to take the same stand the good southern gentleman has(and with the economy in the toilet most can't afford to be tossing customers and their cash away) then the RIAA is going to start racking up some serious bills and might rethink this latest round of stupidity. Because as it is now the RIAA basically can have you thrown off the network and in most places that leaves you on dialup, all thanks to their "evidence" that can't tell the difference between a printer and a file sharer.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    157. Re:Multiple interpretations by AviLazar · · Score: 0, Redundant

      Here here, it's a doggy-dog world.

      Dog-eat-dog world.

      --

      I mod down so you can mod up. Your welcome.
    158. Re:Multiple interpretations by Weaselmancer · · Score: 1

      Most of copyright law has nothing to do with the general public, but everything to do with contract negotiations and relations between creative artists and distributors, and between different distributors. Most of it is an internal legal framework. And frankly, it works extremely well.

      Steve Albini disagrees with you.

      These days, there is a strong sense that piracy is an entitlement, and that extends to campaigning to get rid of anything standing in the way of that entitlement.

      I think you'd have a hard time proving that assertion. The campaigning you see could have another interpretation - that people are sick of paying large useless corporations a premium to get at their content.

      I know that if I go out and buy an album maybe a nickel of that money goes to the artist that I like. So the next logical step would be "why bother?" What good is that? 99.9% of the money is going to people in suits who are going to use that money to erode our rights.

      My personal solution is that I simply don't buy or copy any new media. But I can understand how copyright violation would be appealing in the face of that.

      Replace that system with something that pays content creators directly and you'll see people behaving differently. It isn't about "re-educating" people. It's about realizing that more duct tape isn't going to keep the battleship afloat. You need something new.

      --
      Weaselmancer
      rediculous.
    159. Re:Multiple interpretations by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You forgot:
      Apple is awesome, but Steve Jobs is Hitler.
      and
      The Police are thugs.

    160. Re:Multiple interpretations by multimediavt · · Score: 1

      Here's something else to think about. With all the quality home recording gear available (I know cuz I have some and have created an album for a friend over the last year) who's to say that the songs being shared are actually infringing copyright? I send MP3s of my friend's songs to people all the time, either as email attachments or via some sort of file sharing scheme. Is the RIAA going to start cutting off my means of distribution so they can keep the monopoly on theirs? Am I going to get fined for sending a music file, that I have the rights to, to a friend via the Internet? This seems to be what they are driving toward. They want to keep their power base and MAKE the rest of us use them in order to record and distribute content.

      Well eff that! They can kiss my fuzzy, lilly white ass! I am not sharing my profits from recordings with them! No need to. WIth social networking sites, YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/user/flyhaf), blogging and a host of other free promotional and distribution channels on the web, what do we need them for? ... Oh yeah, we don't!

    161. Re:Multiple interpretations by Jawn98685 · · Score: 1

      "What's your billing address?"

      That's not exactly an unequivocal rejection.

      Where would all you music sharers be if the RIAA responds with a valid billing address? It is just a matter of money before those ISPs start cooperating.

      Well... yes, but how much money? The task under discussion (enforcing RIAA's IP claims) is formidable. Yes, efficient solutions can be engineered by those ISP's with the resources to develop them, but at what cost? And of course those ISP's who can't make the business case for such an initiative will have to throw more labor at the problem on an ongoing basis, instead of up front. Never mind all that. Just know that all of that cost, plus profit, will be on the bills sent to RIAA.

      Perhaps those bills will be lower than those of the lawyers's they'be been using so far, but my hunch is that if most ISP's really do dig in their heels and insist on compensation, the cost would be unpalatable for RIAA and their clients. If I'm right, this will be just another of the music industry's protracted death throes. The buggy whip manufacturers that RIAA represents are still failing to grasp how the Internet has forever changed the nature of their business. Eventually, someone who makes the music I like to listen to will distribute it, in a hi-fi format, on-line, for a price I am willing to pay. That price is certainly lower than what RIAA and it's clients are accustomed to squeezing out of their customers, but it is also most definitely a non-zero number. Someone is going to figure that out, eventually. I wonder who it will be...

    162. Re:Multiple interpretations by Shakrai · · Score: 1

      Huh. Well this is obviously untrue. More Americans enjoy far more liberty today than at any period in American history, perhaps in human history. Yeah, it's not perfect, but we're doing a lot better than our grandparents did, despite the extra government we choose to have.

      That whooshing sound was the point flying right over your head.

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    163. Re:Multiple interpretations by AviLazar · · Score: 0

      The life of the author plus 50/70 years is a damned long time. And it has now placed copyrights beyond the lives of human beings. That has made them the currency of corporations, and are no longer within the means of trade for us mere mortals.

      here is a hypothetical: I am an artist. I spent most of my adult life poor, my family is also poor because of this. Right around the age of 50 I make a hit. It is going to sell and I am going to get paid like a rockstar. I tragically die. Should my family not get the money from my hardwork? Or, what if I spent years working on something but it takes it a while to come to fruition. So I may not make a million bucks in a year, but it may take time - a slow trickle of funds. A few thousand dollars every year. Why should I not enjoy that money I worked for. You certainly enjyo the money you get from your employer - and if you were to die your last paycheck would be delivered to your next of kin.

      There is no monopoly on games, music and movies. If you don't want to pay for a movie go to the free library and rent one for free or find a movie online that is free (legally) to download. If you don't want to pay for music turn the radio on or go to the Internet. If you want to play a computer game but don't want to pay then go find a free open source game that you can play for free and tweak the code all you want.

      If, however, you want to play the latest and greatest game from XYZ corporation that protects their code and has strict EULA agreements, if you want to listen to the music of someone who wants the "protection" of the RIAA, or you want to see the latest blockbuster movie - then guess what you gotta pay and play by their rules. The content is theres not yours. If you don't like it - don't use their product. You won't die. They are not denying you food, water, air, housing, clothing, medicine or education. In fact, by not participating in those events you are saving time you could use to socialize with your friends, read a book from the free library, get out and exercise, or just experience life outside of mass media. Pretty simple. But the truth is you want the blockbuster movies, that new Spears CD that you publically revile but secretly have a fetish for, and that new game that can't be run on the best computers today so you say it sucks but you are building a new computer system so you can play it.

      --

      I mod down so you can mod up. Your welcome.
    164. Re:Multiple interpretations by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Correct. I will also point out that copyrights is a relatively new thing. There was art centuries before copyrights. Asians didn't have the concept of copyrights until we brought it to them. Copyrights are for the middle man, the one who sells art but doesn't make it. This is seriously getting out of control.

    165. Re:Multiple interpretations by AviLazar · · Score: 1

      If you're sharing your music collection with your friends, say 200 CDs * 15 songs

      Did the creater/owner of the music give you expressed permission to share 200 CDs * 15 songs with your "friends"? No? Then STFU.

      --

      I mod down so you can mod up. Your welcome.
    166. Re:Multiple interpretations by Belial6 · · Score: 1

      I have to agree. Old games are easy to find. Heck, my family has been having a ball with GameTap. Even on my wife's machine that cost less than $400 to build every single game runs fine.

    167. Re:Multiple interpretations by Gothic_Walrus · · Score: 1

      The Police are thugs.

      What did Sting ever do to you?

      --
      Goo goo g'joob.
    168. Re:Multiple interpretations by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Do I win a t-shirt?

      Non. As your own link points out, "Nazi memorabilia" is outlawed. The term as invective is alive and well.

    169. Re:Multiple interpretations by dontmakemethink · · Score: 1

      Soon ISP's that do not rat pirates to the RIAA or the BSA will charge higher rates. They have your billing address already.

      Similarly, people with free usenet access have been paying to access usenet servers with high bandwidth and retention for years.

      --

      War as we knew it was obsolete
      Nothing could beat complete denial
      - Emily Haines
    170. Re:Multiple interpretations by Reziac · · Score: 1

      Lots of books that are in the public domain sell fairly well. A good presentation at a very reasonable price, and most people will pay up rather than be arsed to find a bootleg. And some will always buy Shakespeare in the leatherbound edition, rather than the paperback.

      I think the same would be true of video and music. Hell, we already *know* it's true with old films that are out of copyright -- dollar-a-movie DVDs are a thriving business, and SOMEONE is making consistent money with 'em or they wouldn't be everywhere you look.

      --
      ~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
    171. Re:Multiple interpretations by Kjella · · Score: 1

      The area of copyright law that deals with the general public is the smallest tip of the iceberg. Most of copyright law has nothing to do with the general public, but everything to do with contract negotiations and relations between creative artists and distributors, and between different distributors. Most of it is an internal legal framework. And frankly, it works extremely well.

      Somehow, I don't follow your analysis. If it was as you claimed, the whole "creative arts" market could be preserved by permitting non-commercial copying. Isn't the general public in fact the essential piece making sure money enters the market in the first place? You left one bit out about free swag - people have always had a tendancy to pass around free swag but it was never a real threat. Isn't the real problem that instead of the traditional pirate outfit doing it commercial and that people could agree is rather naughty, that techonology has changed? Now there's millions of people using computers and Internet passing around a little free swag yet noone think it's naughtier than before - but in the grand total it's now a helluva lot of free swag? And that they now balk at someone trying to impose penalties way out of proportion?

      The worst part of it is, to a degree, that the public has been made aware of copyright at all. This may sound odd, but considering what copyright is, the best place for it is some notice at the end of a TV show or on the copyright page of a book - some internal thing the public doesn't generally need to worry about.

      The RIAAs tactics aside, in a world with P2P software I don't see how the public could not be aware of copyright law. Why shouldn't we otherwise just pass copies around, never generating any revenue to be distributed in the first place? Friends or strangers, why should I deny someone to drink from an ever-flowing well of copies? I think the way back to where it ought to be is way, way longer than "reeducating the people". How about renegotiating what copyright is supposed to be about with the public before we rip it apart? There's a lot wrong here and I don't think it's just in the public's heads...

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    172. Re:Multiple interpretations by harl · · Score: 1

      Steam is good for players because all you need is your username and password to re-install anything you've ever purchased on Steam. Lose the CD? No problem! Reformat your entire computer? No problem! Just log in to Steam, kick off the download, and wait. You also get all your game updates distributed automatically, built-in profile/achievement/friends/community support, and a very simple and easy-to-use on-line store.

      You failed to mention the ability for Steam to revoke access to your subscriptions at any time. For any or no reason.

      How is asking permission to use something you purchased good for customers? How is this fair DRM?

      --
      I find being offended by me offensive.
    173. Re:Multiple interpretations by retchdog · · Score: 1

      The word "tack" has over twelve meanings as a noun. Many of them work here metaphorically, for example the meaning of a billiard cue; ship's rigging; or parcel of land. Basically, if you keep screwing up, you should perhaps change your tools. The analogy is obvious.

      Regarding your racist tirade; since "tack" is a thoroughly British word, I guess you must be a native American or a druid. Or a dumbfuck.

      --
      "They were pure niggers." – Noam Chomsky
    174. Re:Multiple interpretations by BTWR · · Score: 1

      It's a lot simpler than that - games with crappy graphics don't sell. Period.

      Defend Your Castle, Mega Man 9 and Geometry Wars called. They said "Shhh! Don't tell our millions of customers that they've been buying games with 1986 graphics!"

    175. Re:Multiple interpretations by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There is a whole company devoted to crappy quality (physically) and good quality (playability) games:

      http://www.cheapass.com/

      Some of their games suck, some are good. They never come with the pieces you need to play (normally dice and some markers) but they are cheap ass games, what did you expect.

    176. Re:Multiple interpretations by Bert64 · · Score: 1

      A show like "Canada's Worst Driver" is reality and involves random members of the public, whereas a lot of the "reality" shows are entirely contrived and filled with the rather pathetic kind of people who will degrade themselves to any level in order to have 15 minutes of fame.

      --
      http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
    177. Re:Multiple interpretations by Kjella · · Score: 2, Insightful

      But if you phrase the question a little differently, like "How can you appear to come from the customer's IP address?" then you get quite many obvious answers like open/hacked wifi, trojaned machine, misconfigured proxy and so on. Technically it wouldn't be a spoof, but it would be targetting someone innocent...

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    178. Re:Multiple interpretations by Reziac · · Score: 1

      Actually, there's a disconnect here:

      Normally we WOULD be able to watch those TV shows for free... on broadcast TV. But DVD prices are out of line even with cable/sat charges.

      When we can't watch (for any of many reasons such as no reception or no cable) and when the library doesn't have the titles... what are we expected to do? You seem to think we should pay an extortionate amount (not just the reasonable cost of DVD media and distribution), or subscribe to a service -- again, PAY for what broadcast viewers got to watch for free.

      And if we compare it to the hourly cost of cable or satellite viewing -- the price of DVDs is still outrageous, averaging around $10/hour for discounted films, up to $30/hour for new releases. Conversely cable/sat costs somewhere around a buck an hour, depending on individual usage.

      If DVDs were priced competitively with cable/sat -- say a buck or two per hour of viewing, and another buck for overhead (production and distribution) -- hardly anyone would bother to pirate, it wouldn't be worth the download time. And no one would be upset when something proved to be kark, because at such prices, DVDs would have the same disposable level of investment that one typically puts into cable/sat access.

      And I can attest that I (with NO broadcast or cable access) cheerfully cough up a dollar per episode of TV on DVD, but I sure think twice, or decline to purchase, when it goes much above that -- especially for something that's not a proven commodity.

      --
      ~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
    179. Re:Multiple interpretations by robot_love · · Score: 1

      So the head of the RIAA is the same as Saddam? Interesting.

      --
      .there is enough of everything for everyone.
    180. Re:Multiple interpretations by Bert64 · · Score: 1

      Proper gamers make up a small portion of the market, there are far more casual gamers and non gamers (ie parents who buy for their kids) who will look at hype and pretty graphics...

      --
      http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
    181. Re:Multiple interpretations by harl · · Score: 1

      And no, a vague promise of "If we ever stop the authentication servers, we'll put out a patch so that it doesn't need it" doesn't count. There's a well-known term for software that's promised but not yet written: Vaporware.

      I've directly asked Steam supporters who bring this up to document this claim. Every single person I've done this too has dropped out of the thread never to be heard from again.

      Such a clause does not exist in the subscriber agreement.

      --
      I find being offended by me offensive.
    182. Re:Multiple interpretations by robot_love · · Score: 1

      Thanks for proving Godwin's law. Butchering Jews and suing for copyright infringement are not the same thing.

      And I doubt you would have done any different than all the other people who lived back then. To suggest otherwise is not only idiotic, but offensive.

      --
      .there is enough of everything for everyone.
    183. Re:Multiple interpretations by DMalic · · Score: 1

      I don't think you mentioned Netflix enough. What with bluray support and instant watching, they should've gotten at least another two points.

    184. Re:Multiple interpretations by robot_love · · Score: 1

      Sigh. Whatever.

      You're clearly the level-headed and intelligent one here, so I'll quit responding. Have a good one!

      --
      .there is enough of everything for everyone.
    185. Re:Multiple interpretations by Lobster+Quadrille · · Score: 1

      First, the network has no obligation to make their content available to you at any price, even if they did broadcast that content for "free" previously.

      Second, they have no obligation to make their DVDs reasonably priced. One would expect that the free market would settle on a reasonable price, and maybe it has.

      Finally, I am all for downloading the content. I've donated money to the Pirate Bay and I've received more than my share of free media. I never said that was a bad thing and I never will. Just don't kid yourself about what you're doing, and don't act like you're entitled to it.

      --
      "The cup is in turn designed for holding hot or cold liquids, and has an open rim and closed base." --US Patent #5425497
    186. Re:Multiple interpretations by robot_love · · Score: 1

      For the most part I agree with you, except I don't know who should decide (or what standard they should use) which companies are unethical. I sort of feel about the free market like Churchill felt about democracy. It's the worst thing we have, except for all the other things we've tried.

      --
      .there is enough of everything for everyone.
    187. Re:Multiple interpretations by Ephemeriis · · Score: 1

      Steam is good for players because all you need is your username and password to re-install anything you've ever purchased on Steam. Lose the CD? No problem! Reformat your entire computer? No problem! Just log in to Steam, kick off the download, and wait. You also get all your game updates distributed automatically, built-in profile/achievement/friends/community support, and a very simple and easy-to-use on-line store.

      You failed to mention the ability for Steam to revoke access to your subscriptions at any time. For any or no reason.

      How is asking permission to use something you purchased good for customers? How is this fair DRM?

      I never claimed that Steam was the best thing ever. I never claimed that steam was without flaws. All I claimed was that Steam was a step in the right direction.

      It is, much like with iTunes, DRM that generally works for both sides of the equation.

      --
      "Work is the curse of the drinking classes." -Oscar Wilde
    188. Re:Multiple interpretations by SpammersAreScum · · Score: 1

      Here here, it's a doggy-dog world.

      Dog-eat-dog world.

      *Whoosh*!

    189. Re:Multiple interpretations by steveness · · Score: 1

      I know this is Slashdot, but have you considered sleeping with her (Charli)? In the movies it always works. :)

    190. Re:Multiple interpretations by KillerBob · · Score: 1

      I never met a single gamer that gave two shits about "pretty graphics". WTF are you smoking? Oh wait - do you by chance work for one of the game companies? That would explain your apparent disconnect from reality.

      The graphics in DOOM were state of the art for when it came out. There wasn't anything out with better graphics at the time, except some of the really high end demos that were coming out at shows like Assembly. 3D acceleration rather than sprite-driven graphics really didn't exist until 3Dfx VooDoo hit the market 5 years later.

      And you haven't met any young gamers. There's a market for consoles like PS3 and X360 because there's people who care about how pretty and realistic the gore is in their Call of Duty game. Personally... I bought a Wii. I care about having fun and the gameplay, even in freebies like Wii Sports, is *way* more enjoyable to me than stuff like Halo.

      --
      If you believe everything you read, you'd better not read. - Japanese proverb
    191. Re:Multiple interpretations by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And FSM forbid a God fearing McCain supporter uses a Microsoft gun in Iraq to shoot an Obama Supporting homosexual using a Macbook running linux to listen to his/her America bashing music over their opinion of Google; The stern talking to may last for HOURS before they are turned back onto the street.

    192. Re:Multiple interpretations by harl · · Score: 1

      I never claimed you claimed Steam was the best thing ever.

      I ask again. How is "We can revoke your subscription at any time and you can't do anything about it." good for the customer or a step in the right direction?

      Steam is literally the worst possible DRM. You must ask permission to use your game subscription. You can loose access at any time. You have no legal recourse since you signed a contract agreeing to these terms. Steam is completely one sided. Why do you think it works for both sides?

      itunes is nothing like Steam. Apple cannot revoke your ability to play the file you purchased.

      --
      I find being offended by me offensive.
    193. Re:Multiple interpretations by Slow+Smurf · · Score: 1

      A few thousand dollars every year. Why should I not enjoy that money I worked for. You certainly enjyo the money you get from your employer - and if you were to die your last paycheck would be delivered to your next of kin.

      I have not seen anyone suggest that it shouldn't extend a little past death, assuming it's early. Most suggestions I see(That aren't for abolishing it) are along the lines of 10-20 years, or life + 5/10 years, whichever is shorter.

      How many employers would pay your spouse/kids even one year after you die? That's what life insurance is for.

    194. Re:Multiple interpretations by CopaceticOpus · · Score: 1

      Woosh!

      If you're going to respond, at least try to argue with a point actually made by the parent. He never said sharing those CDs with friends should be considered legally or morally proper. His point is that the punishment should be proportional to the crime.

      Do you think that copying a CD of 15 songs for a friend is a crime worthy of a $2.25 million fine?

    195. Re:Multiple interpretations by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Fuck your children and grandchildren. What right have they to demand money for and have control over works that they didn't create? Let them get a job.

    196. Re:Multiple interpretations by R2.0 · · Score: 1

      "Slashdot is news for nerds and nerds are typically well educated. Education is correlated with the left side of the political spectrum. So here you have an internet discussion involving nerds and I don't think it would be any surprise that the majority opinions reflect most of those you listed. There aren't many righties on here unless you count the libertarians, of which there are quite a few."

      I always loved that argument, especially in light of the overwhelming support for the Left from trade unions - not a bunch of Nobel Laureates in that group.

      --
      "As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly." A. Carlson
    197. Re:Multiple interpretations by Ephemeriis · · Score: 1

      I ask again. How is "We can revoke your subscription at any time and you can't do anything about it." good for the customer or a step in the right direction?

      Pretty much all the DRM out there is variations on "We can revoke your subscription at any time and you can't do anything about it." It may, or may not, actually be spelled out as such... But that's the basic idea. You're allowed to install the software where they tell you that you can, the number of times that they tell you you can... And if you stray from their allowances it stops working. Look at all the crap with SecuROM lately - 3 installations and that's it. They're just now making a way to "de-authorize" a computer.

      I'm not claiming that "We can revoke your subscription at any time and you can't do anything about it" is progress. It isn't. But it is the way DRM works these days.

      The alternative, of course, is to completely avoid the DRM. You can crack Steam protection just as easily as you can crack SecuROM. And if you crack the DRM then you don't have to worry about having access to your software removed.

      Why do you think it works for both sides?

      Well, obviously it works pretty well for the distributors. They've got the control they want.

      You, as a player, get to choose whether you're going to play by their rules or not. You can certainly crack their DRM, or even pirate the software from the start. But if you do choose to play by their rules you may as well get something for it, right?

      SecuROM protection doesn't give the player anything for their trouble. There's nothing easier or more convenient about it. It gives the distributors the control they want, and gives the players nothing at all.

      Steam give the players an easy way to re-install their software, automatic updates, etc.

      It's still DRM, which still restricts your freedom. But if I have to choose between SecuROM and Steam, I know which one I'll pick.

      itunes is nothing like Steam. Apple cannot revoke your ability to play the file you purchased.

      iTunes may not be able to revoke my ability to play the file that I purchased... But it is, much like with Steam, DRM that generally works for both sides of the equation.

      --
      "Work is the curse of the drinking classes." -Oscar Wilde
    198. Re:Multiple interpretations by AviLazar · · Score: 1

      Woosh! If you're going to respond, at least try to argue with a point actually made by the parent. He never said sharing those CDs with friends should be considered legally or morally proper. His point is that the punishment should be proportional to the crime. Do you think that copying a CD of 15 songs for a friend is a crime worthy of a $2.25 million fine?

      Yes.

      --

      I mod down so you can mod up. Your welcome.
    199. Re:Multiple interpretations by Reziac · · Score: 1

      True enough, but what I was pointing out was the dichotomy of "free" broadcast content and "pay thru the nose" for the SAME content via DVD/CD, which itself fuels the "at that price, fuck 'em" reaction. That we then choose to patronize TPB instead should surprise no one.

      --
      ~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
    200. Re:Multiple interpretations by AviLazar · · Score: 1

      I have not seen anyone suggest that it shouldn't extend a little past death, assuming it's early. Most suggestions I see(That aren't for abolishing it) are along the lines of 10-20 years, or life + 5/10 years, whichever is shorter. How many employers would pay your spouse/kids even one year after you die? That's what life insurance is for.

      It all depends on the job you have. If someone spent their entire lives trying to make something work and finally at the tail end of their lives it does work they should get paid for that. But that is fairy tale - they get paid what the market will pay them.
      You said 10-20 years or life + 5/10 years - these are all arbitrary. Why not 40-70 or Life+50. If we were to go by life +5/10, how fair would it be if person A made something at age 20 and got life +5/10, or someone at age 70 and got life +5/10. So making it some VERY arbitrary base of 'life' is unfair. A fixed number is more fair.

      Now it is just a matter of what that arbitrary number is. Is it 10 years? 20? 40? 100? What if it took me 50 years to create a hit....why should I only get 10 years of pay from it?

      And the thing that everyone seems to ignore/forget is that the topic we are talking about is not a necessity to life - not what-so-ever - so if you don't like the terms and agreement then do not use the product. By using it and discarding the terms of agreement then YOU are in the wrong no matter how much you justify entitlement.

      --

      I mod down so you can mod up. Your welcome.
    201. Re:Multiple interpretations by AviLazar · · Score: 1

      *Whoosh*!

      *Derrr*!

      See works for me too.

      --

      I mod down so you can mod up. Your welcome.
    202. Re:Multiple interpretations by cpt+kangarooski · · Score: 1

      Well, a lot of that argument depends on whether you feel that intellectual property can and should be left as a legacy for children and grandchildren. I'm of the opinion that it should, but then again, I also have a stake in that.

      If I may ask, why?

      If it is to provide for them, let's remember that the vast majority of copyrighted works have no copyright-related economic value. Of the few works which do, the vast majority enjoy the vast majority of their copyright-related economic value within a very short time of publication in a given medium. For example, a movie makes most of its box-office money in the first weekend it's released, and for each week thereafter, ticket sales drop. Eventually it does poorly enough that it is no longer shown in the theater. The cycle repeats with discount theaters, pay-per-view, sales of copies (to viewers and rental stores), subscription cable licensing, basic cable licensing, broadcast tv licensing, etc. Within a few years 90% or more of the money that will ever be made from the copyright on the movie has been made. Only dregs remain, which can take far longer to wring out. Only a minuscule number of works have significant lasting value.

      The odds of making that sort of work are on par with winning the lottery.

      Since most works are worthless, and most works which have worth are close to worthless within a few years, leaving those works as a "legacy" to one's children and grandchildren would be pointless at best, or a sad joke at their expense at worst. Gambling on the works being of the rare sort that are of lasting significant worth is no different than leaving them a big pile of lottery tickets in your will. It's not a good justification for setting copyright policy, and they're not responsible people to listen to.

      Instead, if people want to leave something to help their survivors or descendants, they should carefully invest the money they made initially. They should make sure to get life insurance. They should be responsible with their money. And they should support social welfare programs so that even if they die penniless, the others won't be cast out onto the streets. Better still, instead of long copyright terms, which protect only a teeny tiny number of authors (or more likely, publishers instead), this is all good advice for everyone, not just authors.

      Further, at a minimum, even if you do think that excessively long copyright terms ought to be available for the fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a percent of works that will be worth the trouble, then let's at least recognize that those long terms are not needed for all works, or even most works. Further, let's remember that it is the copyright holder who has a vested interest in keeping the copyright, and who is best-informed as to how much money he is making from exploiting the copyright. Therefore, isn't it sensible to require authors to register in order to get copyrights initially (so that the majority of works, which are never of any copyright-related value, can immediately pass into the public domain, since the copyrights are worthless), and let those copyright terms be quite short but renewable, so that every few years, the copyright holder can re-assess how much the rights are worth, and whether there is any point to renewing them. The registration and renewals shouldn't be free (since then they'd always be renewed without any honest assessment of future value), but should cost a token amount so that the copyright holder has to actually think about it, and won't want to waste money on a work whose value has gone.

      In fact, having the work in copyright longer can improve the work's chances of survival, as it increases the length of time that the work has a champion.

      Actually, you're talking about popularity. Survival of the work is promoted by works being in the public domain; for example, most works we have from antiquity are not original copies, but copies of copies, because the central libraries didn't survive. Copies that were passed around, and wh

      --
      -- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
    203. Re:Multiple interpretations by mrchaotica · · Score: 2, Funny

      Man, I'm laughing too hard to figure out how best to point out how completely and spectacularly you missed the grandparent post's sarcasm. Did you think he thought "or, contrair" and "here, here" were correct?! That was like the Grand Canyon of sarchasms right there, buddy! Bravo!

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    204. Re:Multiple interpretations by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Notice he says "until" not "unless"

      Jefferson knew it was only a matter of time.

    205. Re:Multiple interpretations by Arterion · · Score: 1

      To counter, Ultima Underworld beat DOOM to the punch, and was arguably a better game, as far as gameplay was concerned. It had a lot more interactive elements. It wasn't anywhere near as popular. I'm not quite sure how the graphics compare, as I haven't played either in a while. I think they were fairly similar, though.

      --
      "That which does not kill us makes us stranger." -Trevor Goodchild
    206. Re:Multiple interpretations by DJK · · Score: 1

      You forgot: BSD is dead

    207. Re:Multiple interpretations by shermo · · Score: 1

      Here's one the GP missed:

      Correlation is not causation

      --
      Insanity: voting in the same two parties over and over again and expecting different results
    208. Re:Multiple interpretations by cpt+kangarooski · · Score: 4, Insightful

      here is a hypothetical: I am an artist. I spent most of my adult life poor, my family is also poor because of this. Right around the age of 50 I make a hit. It is going to sell and I am going to get paid like a rockstar. I tragically die. Should my family not get the money from my hardwork?

      Sure. This is a good argument for flat copyright terms, instead of terms based on the life of an author. Let's have copyright terms that last for, say, 5 years, renewable in similarly short increments, for as long as, say, 25 years. (Most works make most of the money they'll ever be worth within no more than 15 years, and often very much less time) Then it doesn't matter when you die; the term lasts as long as it lasts. This is traditionally how copyright terms in the US have worked, and it's worked pretty well.

      Or, what if I spent years working on something but it takes it a while to come to fruition. So I may not make a million bucks in a year, but it may take time - a slow trickle of funds. A few thousand dollars every year. Why should I not enjoy that money I worked for.

      Are you saying that the work takes a long time to finish, but makes money upon publication, or that the work is published and takes a long time to make money after publication?

      In the first case, who cares? Copyrights should last a long time for unpublished works, to deter people pirating manuscripts, but not so long that authors have an incentive to sit on a manuscript; copyright is interested in getting works published and ultimately in the public domain, not merely protecting them merely to make a do-nothing author happy.

      In the second case, I have no problem with authors seeking long copyright terms, so long as it's not automatic; the author should have to seek a copyright in the first case, and deliberately renew it frequently, to indicate continuing interest. Ultimately, though, the term will need to expire. If the author couldn't turn a profit after a couple of decades, then the odds are that he never will. Exceptions are rare enough so as to not be worthwhile in setting policy, for the same reason that people who miraculously survive in a tornado out in the open are not extolled as reasons to not take shelter in a proper basement.

      There is no monopoly on games, music and movies.

      The monopoly is on a specific game, or piece of music, or movie. The reason piracy appeals, is because one copy is as good as another, at least so far as copyright goes. I could go to a bookstore and buy any of a dozen different copies of Shakespeare, from different publishers; they're interchangeable commodities. A copyright is a monopoly on a commodity, i.e. that specific work, identical copies of which could otherwise be made by anyone.

      The content is theres not yours.

      Nonsense. We have a right of free speech, and this encompasses the right to repeat the speech of others; that's why the state can't prevent me from reciting Shakespeare, though I didn't write it.

      The government has no power not ultimately granted to it by the people. Copyright is the people willingly giving up a little bit of our free speech. No one would ever do this just because; we expect to get a greater benefit out of it than it costs us. In particular we want to encourage authors to create works, to publish those works, and for those works to be as unprotected as possible, and to enter the public domain as fast as possible. We want the greatest public benefit for the least cost to ourselves. It's great if authors benefit from it as well, but only to the minimal extent necessary to get them to create and publish. Why would it be in the public's interest to give them more?

      But the current copyright laws are probably not providing the greatest possible public benefit. And increasing them probably wouldn't increase the public benefit. So it seems likely that the best way to serve the public interest -- the only interest that counts -- is to reduce the length and breadth of copyright.

      --
      -- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
    209. Re:Multiple interpretations by Slow+Smurf · · Score: 1

      Whichever is shorter, not longer.

      And what YOU seem to be forgetting is copyright is something we, as a society, are offering artists to help society. There is no benfit to society for them getting 70 years or more. They(mostly corporations) are breaking their part of the contract when they ask for continually longer copyright, especially the retroactive ones.

    210. Re:Multiple interpretations by EsbenMoseHansen · · Score: 1

      Your post is nonsense form beginning to the end. You first paragraph has nothing to do with the matter at hand, nor has your second statement, as I have not implied anything of the kind.

      i.e: If you want to reply, please address at least one point raised.

      --
      Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by rulers as useful.
    211. Re:Multiple interpretations by Fulcrum+of+Evil · · Score: 1

      Copyright isn't intended as a legacy for your kids - nothing after about 1930 has gone out of copyright - it's intended to enrich the public domain. Since nothing's going into the public domain, then it's fairly clear that we've twisted copyright from its original purpose.

      --
      "We returned the General to El Salvador, or maybe Guatemala, it's difficult to tell from 10,000 feet"
    212. Re:Multiple interpretations by HeronBlademaster · · Score: 1

      I bought a $1400 laptop a year and a half ago that came with a GeForce Go 7300 with "256" MB RAM (that is, 128 dedicated and 128 shared with system RAM). I could build an equivalent (actually better) desktop right now for around $500.

      I can run pretty much everything, though not with all the eye candy turned on, and not at high resolutions - but then, that's not really why I play games. Also, I've never seen a PC game come out at more than $50 (and I rarely buy until it gets cheaper), though admittedly I rarely buy at brick-and-mortar stores anymore so I don't know what they charge there.

      My point is that you don't need a $2000 PC to play new games, you just need a lower-mid-range PC with a discrete video card.

      So what you're complaining about:

      They should write the games so that if you have a video card that costs twice what an Xbox costs you'll get the graphics, yet if you have a normal $50 video card the game will still play.

      ... is exactly what they do. Valve's games are an especially good example of this. Maybe you should stop hiding under that rock?

    213. Re:Multiple interpretations by Garwulf · · Score: 1

      "It is perpetual, every 10 years Congress extends the life of all currently copyright works for 10 years."

      If that's the case, then where's this decade's extension?

      --
      Robert B. Marks
      Author, Demonsbane in Diablo Archive
    214. Re:Multiple interpretations by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Dude, you should turn that into a game -- it'll chill you out let you cope!

    215. Re:Multiple interpretations by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "the stuff artists and distributors generally have to worry about is people uploading material, as the downloaders are just getting free swag."

      I find that to be the flaw of the RIAA's argument. Just like the OP asks,

      "You expect me to police your intellectual property? What's your billing address?"

      It's not my job to make sure someone is downloading content that they have the rights to. I'm not doing anything wrong by making files available if I own the CD's. I have on many occasions replaced songs that were scratched, or CD's that I left at home when I was in college by downloading content which I already paid for.

      I paid for it, then I logically have the right to make it freely available to myself and others who have paid for it at any time and place they may choose to make use of it.

      I would argue that if the material hosted is owned by the uploader, than they have fulfilled their legal responsibility.

    216. Re:Multiple interpretations by Garwulf · · Score: 1

      "nothing after about 1930 has gone out of copyright"

      You mean besides the collected works of Robert E. Howard (died 1936, work entered the public domain in 2006)? Or how about the original Night of the Living Dead, which never had its copyright term extended.

      Got news for you - in places like Canada and Britain...places that had joined the Berne Convention rather than lagging behind like the United States...literary material is constantly entering the public domain. You're not seeing it in the United States because you had a short-term copyright until about the 1960s (if I remember my years right), when the term saw a massive extension to match up with the rest of the world. Naturally there's a gap because of that. But, right now the work of every author in the United States who died in or before 1938 is in the public domain. Next year it will be every author on or before 1939, and so on.

      --
      Robert B. Marks
      Author, Demonsbane in Diablo Archive
    217. Re:Multiple interpretations by EsbenMoseHansen · · Score: 1

      As a legal user of P2P, and as a PC gamer (linux only, though), I really hate all the copyright infringements going on.

      If copyright law were a more reasonable reflection of reality, there wouldn't be anywhere near as much copyright infringement going on.

      What should change about copyright law to avoid the copyright infringement and still allow the using of 20+millions of mullah to develop a game? I am all for shortening the period of copyright, but that really doesn't matter for games. A 12-year copyright (shortest suggestion I have seen) wouldn't really make a difference for computer games just yet.

      I'd bet that the reason we don't see another monkey island or similar is due to piracy.

      And you'd be wrong.

      It seems a lot of people have misunderstood me here. I did not mean the monkey island (original game) remake or something like that; I meant another good, funny and stunning graphical adventure. They have gotten very rare, and I fear it is because such games are almost impossible to properly protect from copyright infringement. At least, that is what my contacts in the game industry tells me, and I have no reason to doubt them.

      --
      Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by rulers as useful.
    218. Re:Multiple interpretations by AliasMarlowe · · Score: 1

      The life of the author plus 50/70 years is a damned long time.

      Indeed. I am still waiting for a reasoned explanation as to why the copyright term should be so long, while the maximum term of a patent is 20 years.

      Suppose that instead of writing stories about Pooh bear, Milne had invented a cure for malaria or a fuel-injected motor or FM radio transmission. Would royalties from such an invention still be flowing into the coffers of his heirs today?

      Comparing the situation for patents and copyrights, it is clear that the balance between benefit to society and benefit to the creator is grotesquely skewed away from society in the case of copyright.

      --
      Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. - Voltaire
    219. Re:Multiple interpretations by evel+aka+matt · · Score: 1

      Sounds like your own fault. If you had paid attention to the requirements of the game (not necessarily the ones printed on the box) and the hardware you were purchasing, you wouldn't have bought hardware that couldn't run the game. Stick with consoles.

    220. Re:Multiple interpretations by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just because you don't have a monopoly doesn't mean you can't keep printing and selling a work. I don't think any work was "championed" after 20 years of copyright just because the copyright continues to exists. If they could make money but did not have an exclusive right, the work would still be published.

    221. Re:Multiple interpretations by harl · · Score: 1

      I'm not sure what your obsession with SecureROM is. There are many options other than SecureROM and Steam. Sure Steam doesn't look bad if you compare it to something equally bad. Let's look at the many options other than SecureROM

      Pretty much all the DRM out there is variations on "We can revoke your subscription at any time and you can't do anything about it." It may, or may not, actually be spelled out as such... But that's the basic idea. You're allowed to install the software where they tell you that you can, the number of times that they tell you you can...

      Yeah that's wrong. Some DRM works this way. Impulse does not. Itunes does not. CSS does not. PS3 does not. Xbox360 does not. Disc in drive does not. Watermarking does not. Dongle does not. The whole idea that you have to ask permission to use something you paid for is obscene.

      From the Steam contract part 13.C.2 "In the case of a one-time purchase of a product license (e.g., purchase of a single game) from Valve, Valve may choose to terminate or cancel your Subscription in its entirety"

      Would you buy pants that you had to ask permission to wear? Would you buy a car if you had to call GM to start it? Would you buy a house that could be repossessed at any time without warning even if paid in full? If it's ok to do with your software then it's ok to do with any of these items.

      I'm not claiming that "We can revoke your subscription at any time and you can't do anything about it" is progress. It isn't. But it is the way DRM works these days.

      Again you're just wrong. I've pointed out many exceptions. Every single exception I listed leaves control in the purchasers hand. The purchaser and the purchaser alone determines if they are able to use the product which they acquired legally.

      How is going from complete control to no control of objects you legally purchased progress?

      Steam give the players an easy way to re-install their software, automatic updates, etc.

      Installing from disc or local file is equally easy and in all cases quicker. Impulse has automatic updates with no control loss DRM. Many games have an auto update feature built in. Shit Diablo 2 had it eight and a half years go. Ultima Online had it 10 years ago. Auto updates is not progress it's old tech.

      iTunes may not be able to revoke my ability to play the file that I purchased... But it is, much like with Steam, DRM that generally works for both sides of the equation.

      This is just delusional. You're saying something that you have complete control over is the same as something you have no control over.

      --
      I find being offended by me offensive.
    222. Re:Multiple interpretations by Chris+Tucker · · Score: 0

      "The course of history shows that as a government grows, liberty decreases."

      God DAMN JFK and LBJ and their overwhelming BIG GOVERNMENT taking away the liberty of good, decent Christian Southerners to lynch all those uppity niggers wanting to vote and eat at a lunch counter and not have to sit in the back of the bus, that had the temerity to ask that they stopped being lynched for wanting to vote and eat at a lunch counter and not have to sit in the back of the bus.

      And now, NOW, the god damned faggots are wanting to get MARRIED, just like normal people!

      It's an outrage how our freedoms and liberties are being eroded by the liberals and the ACLU and George Soros and Michael Moore and Al Gore!

      --
      Guaranteed! This comment 100% Anthrax free!
    223. Re:Multiple interpretations by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Given Netflix shady business practices, misleading marketing, and blatant attempts to twist CA consumer protection laws in it's various TOSs, I don't see how using them is moral high ground.

      The public library is fine, and often free. I think we should have a public Internet library all can contribute to and share from as long as we contribute to the cost of maintaining the library. Maybe people couldn't keep their own copy without buying it, but they could share just like in a brick and mortar library as long as the original was legally purchased and that copy and legal backups are kept on the libraries servers. If there was legal recognition and protection for nonprofit sharing without copying via Internet libraries, maybe the focus of media corporations could shift to making new works and marketing official collectors copies and memorabilia. It would save them money in the long run and be better for everyone.

    224. Re:Multiple interpretations by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not to start a political battle, but you must have a different definition for "left side" than the rest of the world. As an example, within the U.S. the majority of those taking a left-wing position are democrats, whereas the majority of those taking a right-wing position are republicans. From Wikipedia: "Republicans are significantly more likely than Democrats to have 4-year college degrees." Holding a college degree does not always equate to "well-educated", but most of the time it does.

      Of course, your comment regarding there being few righties on here still appears to be true, so this post will likely get modded down.

    225. Re:Multiple interpretations by roc97007 · · Score: 1

      > Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have ...

      And since government produces nothing, everything has to come from somewhere else.

      --
      Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
    226. Re:Multiple interpretations by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And NetHack is still better than the Baldur's Gate series, the Elder Scrolls series, the Wizardry series, and every other CRPG ever made (not that those are bad games mind you, but they just can't compete with NetHack).

    227. Re:Multiple interpretations by EsbenMoseHansen · · Score: 1

      I'd bet that the reason we don't see another monkey island or similar is due to piracy.

      And how does that make you feel knowing that the publisher spends more time thinking about people that aren't their customers, than you? Shouldn't they just be worried about making their customer happy? I mean, they still turn a profit when they publish, and Stardock managed to get quite a bit of a following with Sins of a Solar Empire without resulting to DRM.

      If you don't like them, don't buy from then, and don't pirate. If you pirate, you are saying that you actually do want their product (though you prefer it (nearly) free). Actions speak louder than words

      The only up is that online games are having a ball, since cracking those are harder. My hope is that someday it will be feasible to simply host the game on some server and deliver all the content over the net, so that we can get rid of the arrrrggghh pirates.

      And when some jackass decides to DDoS your content/directory servers to grief a couple hundred thousand people, I'll laugh because you rent your games and have no control by design. I'll do the same when your content provider decides the ROI on supporting an old game isn't enough to justify the hosting expenses.

      When DDoS, I get a refund for the lapsed. Sure it might mean I have to do something else for a day, but I will survive, the same is true for a blackout for everyone. If the server gets discontinued, I will move to another game. Since it is online, subscription-based content, I have lost nothing. In all likelyhood, I have moved on long since.

      Anyway, this is the only growth area on the PC game market, primarily because of piracy. Yes, I would prefer a world without DRM, piracy and so forth, but I do not see a way to get there. I do support almost every independent linuxgame out there, (at least every second), but it is not enough, apparently due to piracy (yes, linux is just as much hit by this as windows).

      --
      Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by rulers as useful.
    228. Re:Multiple interpretations by Fulcrum+of+Evil · · Score: 1

      Yeah right. Steamboat Willie will never go out of copyright as long as Congress keeps bowing to pressure from Disney. Who do you think is behind all those extensions, anyway?

      --
      "We returned the General to El Salvador, or maybe Guatemala, it's difficult to tell from 10,000 feet"
    229. Re:Multiple interpretations by Chris+Tucker · · Score: 1

      "Free options like hulu don't include some series I wanted to see like Earth Final Conflict or the Avengers. I purchased both of these on DVD, and they both sucked. That's almost $200 wasted, and I can't return either of them."

      Jeebus! That's what Netflix is for! You bloody RENT the box set, or as much of it as you need to rent to see if you like or dislike it.

      "Oh, but it's not FREE!!!" Sucks to be you, then, you cheap sod! Using Netflix to see if you liked Earth: Final Conflict or the Avengers box sets would have been a LOT Cheaper than buying the box sets and discovering you didn't like them.

      In some instances, you can even borrow these DVDs for free from your local library, even though libraries are, in the opinion of the Libertarians, "Public libraries, as institutions that destroy value, destroy in some small way our ability to live our lives to the fullest. They represent houses of death and should be spat upon and cursed in the most creative language possible."

      So, sell the box sets on eBay or Craigslist and make back some of your money, which you can then spend on MORE crap you'll discover that you don't like.

      --
      Guaranteed! This comment 100% Anthrax free!
    230. Re:Multiple interpretations by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not."

      We already have that. It's called Welfare.

    231. Re:Multiple interpretations by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, a lot of that argument depends on whether you feel that intellectual property can and should be left as a legacy for children and grandchildren. I'm of the opinion that it should, but then again, I also have a stake in that.

      When I die I won't continue to make money from my job for the sake of my grandchildren; why should you?

      I only make money when I'm actually doing actual work; why should you be allowed to write a single popular book and sit on your ass for the rest of your life?

      Moreover, what gives you the idea that droits d'auteur exist? You can't own ideas; the government sees fit to give you a temporary monopoly on them to encourage you to publish them. What's more, I can guarantee you that you've never in your life made something 100% original; you've only made slight variations on ideas old as hell.

      If I have a candle on fire, I may own the candle, but not the fire. Someone else can light their candle on mine and mine does not suffer. Ideas are non-rivalrous and non-excludable; only a fascist would want to control them.

      The law locks up the man or woman
      Who steals the goose from off the common
      But leaves the greater villain loose
      Who steals the common from off the goose

      The law demands that we atone
      When we take things we do not own
      But leaves the lords and ladies fine
      When they take things that are yours and mine

      The poor and wretched don't escape
      When they conspire the law to break
      This must be so but they endure
      Those who conspire to make the law

      The law locks up the man or woman
      Who steals the goose from off the common
      And geese shall still a common lack
      Until they go and steal it back

    232. Re:Multiple interpretations by Garwulf · · Score: 1

      "Yeah right. Steamboat Willie will never go out of copyright as long as Congress keeps bowing to pressure from Disney. Who do you think is behind all those extensions, anyway?"

      Harmonization with European copyright, actually. They went to life +70 first, and declared that they would consider copyrights to last the length of copyright in the original country - to avoid losing 20 years of protection, and to keep American IP competitive in the European market, the United States harmonized.

      If you want to learn more about the reasons and process for the 20 year extension, read this: http://llr.lls.edu/volumes/v36-issue1/martin-original1.pdf

      --
      Robert B. Marks
      Author, Demonsbane in Diablo Archive
    233. Re:Multiple interpretations by EsbenMoseHansen · · Score: 1

      It's getting late, so only a few points. Adventure games peaked in about 1999 in my opinion; which is incidentally where piracy was lowest. I also know from people inside the business that piracy is a major obstacle in publishing on the PC market; so much that most prefer not to or delay the PC release. Thus, I added 2+2+2, but clearly flagged it as something which I am convinced of, but not something I can prove. Fair?

      As for the online part being draconian: The points you have about abandoned games could easily be addressed: these days, letting the code be GPL'ed or similar when the publisher no longer wants to support it seems the obvious solution, and one you see often in my world (linux gamer). The offline bit is not quite irrelevant yet, but will soon be as we will have internet everywhere. And even so, I suspect it is that, or intrusive copyright protection schemes that screws with your computer. I prefer the online bit, thank you very much.

      --
      Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by rulers as useful.
    234. Re:Multiple interpretations by lenehey · · Score: 1

      DOOM had no better graphics than its predecessor Wolfenstien.

      I have to disagree with you here. Original Doom had very expressive texture maps that were used sparingly, but to great effect. Do you remember the "lost souls" texture map showing ghostly bodies writhing in agony? Or the exterior panoramas that you got a glimpse of from time to time through a window or off a platform? What about the loping movement of the camera, verses the robotic-like movement in Wolfenstein?

    235. Re:Multiple interpretations by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Producing games is expensive. Nobody wants to just break-even these days, they all want the next ginormous hit.

      Breaking even is the worst thing you can do in the games industry.

      I used to work for a small studio that got gobbled up by one of the big players. After a string of moderately successful games, we had one of the senior financial people come out to basically tell us, go big or go home. He didn't explain the reasoning behind it, but it seems that with the way US financial law is arranged, if you fail big, but can show the IRS that you really didn't sabotage yourself, you can offset the losses against you tax. So what the big companies want, is enough big failures to soak up their taxes, and some big hits to bring in the huge profits. A game that just breaks even or makes a moderate profit is a complete waste of their resources.

      After our next game was a moderate hit, we were flogged off to the first bidder.

    236. Re:Multiple interpretations by IronChef · · Score: 1

      Artists and animators are the biggest group of employees in my game studio, and we spend a ton of money on outsourcing things that we don't have the time to do ourselves.

      I promise you, a crappy game with great graphics is usually not cheaper to make than a great game with crappy graphics.

      Gameplay often takes a back seat to graphics not because graphics are a cheap fix, but because graphics make an immediate impact that every PHB, visiting executive, E3 attendee, and reporter can appreciate. Nuanced elder game balance and replayability is not something that comes across in the 15 minute demos that most games are build around.

      Actually, wait, I'm sorry--you said "profitable" not "cheaper to make" and those are different things. I don't know about profit, that has to factor in sales and that isn't my department. I just know that art, generally speaking, does cost more to produce than the design and developer time that creates gameplay.

      (And let's not talk about the marketing budget!)

    237. Re:Multiple interpretations by Shadow-isoHunt · · Score: 1

      If you don't like them, don't buy from then, and don't pirate.

      And I don't. I wasn't arguing for piracy, I was pointing out how sad it is that by your logic the sequel to monkey island isn't being made because people will download it, which means that the publisher cares more about the pirates than they do you - the customer. The pirates will never be customers, so why give a flying fuck about them? They'll just download the inevitably cracked version of what ever's released.

      When DDoS, I get a refund for the lapsed.

      Don't count on it.

      Yes, I would prefer a world without DRM, piracy and so forth, but I do not see a way to get there.

      Why? DRM doesn't work anyways. And again, Stardock does quite well on it's games that don't have DRM.

      apparently due to piracy (yes, linux is just as much hit by this as windows).

      Can you name some examples? Cedega does quite well financially...

      --
      www.isoHunt.com
    238. Re:Multiple interpretations by rohan972 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Well, a lot of that argument depends on whether you feel that intellectual property can and should be left as a legacy for children and grandchildren. I'm of the opinion that it should, but then again, I also have a stake in that. Your mileage may vary, and certainly seems to.

      I'm curious to know if you apply that to patents as well as copyright. In some cases, talking about "intellectual property" can make the discussion easier but many time it obfuscates the issue. In my opinion if patents were granted for the length of you suggest the cost of technology would skyrocket and technological progress would slow to a crawl. Should we really have to pay for the use of ideas developed in the late 1800s/early 1900s? I don't think so. On the other hand I can see no real problem with trademarks being perpetual or for a very long time. I take it we are really talking about copyrights, not the more broad "intellectual property"

      I think Thomas Jefferson put it well:
      If nature has made any one thing less susceptible than all others of exclusive property, it is the action of the thinking power called an idea, which an individual may exclusively possess as long as he keeps it to himself; but the moment it is divulged, it forces itself into the possession of every one, and the receiver cannot dispossess himself of it. Its peculiar character, too, is that no one possesses the less, because every other possesses the whole of it. He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. That ideas should freely spread from one to another over the globe, for the moral and mutual instruction of man, and improvement of his condition, seems to have been peculiarly and benevolently designed by nature, when she made them, like fire, expansible over all space, without lessening their density in any point, and like the air in which we breathe, move and have our physical being, incapable of confinement or exclusive appropriation. Inventions then cannot, in nature, be a subject of property. Society may give an exclusive right to the profits arising from them, as an encouragement to men to pursue ideas which may produce utility, but this may or may not be done, according to the will and convenience of the society, without claim or complaint from anybody... The exclusive right to invention [is] given not of natural right, but for the benefit of society." --Thomas Jefferson

      I do not think your descendants would have any valid cause for complaint it copyright terms were 14 years. I do think that copyright is a social contract and that the benefits of that contract belong to the people who agree to abide by its terms ie: the people living now. If the primary benefit of that contract (works entering the public domain) does not benefit the people entering into it then it's not really a valid contract. Most of the works protected by copyright now will have zero or almost zero value to my great-great-grandchildren. Software will be hopelessly out of date, movies and music produced now will mainly be useful for historical studies. Long copyright terms strip the public of benefit and therefore invalidate the contract, we can not reasonably be said to have agreed to it. Current rates of copyright violation indicate that we don't.

      The US became grew in industrial power (and had well educated citizens) because of not enforcing copyrights and patents from other countries (among other reasons). Ultimately your descendants would benefit far more from free access to other peoples works than by exclusive access to yours.

    239. Re:Multiple interpretations by EsbenMoseHansen · · Score: 1

      I'd bet that the reason we don't see another monkey island or similar is due to piracy.

      Citation needed. (I never played it myself, but maybe it just sucked?)

      Not enough to prevent 3 sequels, and a host of similar games. Then, in the late 90's, they disappeared. What came unto the scene in the late 90's? Online piracy, and a sharp rise to piracy, too. It might be a coincidence, but I think not.

      Also, this assumes that every person who pirates a game/song would have bought it otherwise.

      No it doesn't. It assumes that a significant part of the revenue is lost because people chose the free route.

      The vast majority of pirates would never have paid for it to start with, so the company isn't actually making any less money than they would without piracy.

      Citation needed. This is obviously fantasy. Of course, if the materials was not available for free, some more of it would have been bought.

      It's the same argument we heard the RIAA made back in the 80's; it was "OMFG people are going to stop buying cassettes because now they can just record the music from the radio! We're gonna go bankrupt & all music on the planet will cease to exist!". And despite everybody & their dogs making 'mix tapes' and recording music from the radio, album sales soared to all-time record highs.

      Flawed analogy. The tapes were of a poor quality and bothersome to make. That's what kept the copying at bay. And the advertising and general economic growth did the rest.

      So no, people pirating the music don't hurt the bottom line. The only piracy that impacts sales to any extent is actually called "counterfeiting" i.e. when someone produces & sells hard-copy CD's, etc.

      You live in a fantasy if you believe that. Just the other day was an article disproving that right here on slashdot.

      The only up is that online games are having a ball, since cracking those are harder. My hope is that someday it will be feasible to simply host the game on some server and deliver all the content over the net, so that we can get rid of the arrrrggghh pirates.

      This is actually done quite frequently. Many online games, especially mmorpg's, do exactly this. The ones who still make you buy a copy from the retail outlet are just trying to gouge you for even more cash. They base their business on revenue from subscriptions, the copies of the game discs themselves are just more gravy for the profit coffers. As an example, last time I checked you could download WoW for free direct from Blizzard, and they certainly aren't suffering.

      So you are saying that these games are doing well because they are free of piracy? That seems to contradict what you wrote earlier.

      --
      Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by rulers as useful.
    240. Re:Multiple interpretations by Atario · · Score: 1

      Homosexuality is awesome

      Really? Could you give us a list of, say, half-a-dozen posts to this effect?

      Or are you just throwing up a laundry list of opinions directly counter to yours and assuming that a load of well-educated and well-informed people will have them? Because I could totally see the logic in that.

      --
      "A great democracy must be progressive or it will soon cease to be a great democracy." --Theodore Roosevelt
    241. Re:Multiple interpretations by rohan972 · · Score: 1

      here is a hypothetical: I am an artist. I spent most of my adult life poor, my family is also poor because of this.

      You chose that life. Your wife chose you. If you have deliberately raised your children in poverty you deserve scorn, not sympathy. You are responsible to provide for your children. When you have them, you ought to consider giving up your passion to spend all your time doing things that don't pay. Do some work people want to pay for and have your art as a hobby or second business.

      I know plenty of people that have a side business apart from their main occupation. Often it is because the business doesn't (yet) pay enough to support them. The rest of society is under no obligation to pay extra for their services to enable them to avoid doing work we do value enough to pay for. Same applies to your hypothetical artist.

    242. Re:Multiple interpretations by Garwulf · · Score: 1

      "I'm curious to know if you apply that to patents as well as copyright. In some cases, talking about "intellectual property" can make the discussion easier but many time it obfuscates the issue. In my opinion if patents were granted for the length of you suggest the cost of technology would skyrocket and technological progress would slow to a crawl. Should we really have to pay for the use of ideas developed in the late 1800s/early 1900s? I don't think so. On the other hand I can see no real problem with trademarks being perpetual or for a very long time. I take it we are really talking about copyrights, not the more broad "intellectual property""

      To answer your question, no, I don't consider it to apply to patents the same as copyrights. The copyright system has certain measures built-in to protect ideas from being monopolized - you can copyright the exact implementation of an idea, but the idea itself can be used and reused by whoever wants to. And that's very much how creativity works - ideas are drawn upon, and something new comes out.

      Patents, though...I would actually say those are very badly broken.

      As for your opinion on copyright terms, I must disagree, and I think that intellectual piracy had very little to do with American industrial power, but I'm not an expert on that part of American history. Second, I think you are undervaluing the impact of economics and the free market on availability of creative materials - it has far more impact than copyright terms do. But that's a different discussion, for a different time...

      --
      Robert B. Marks
      Author, Demonsbane in Diablo Archive
    243. Re:Multiple interpretations by Hordeking · · Score: 1

      "Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have ... The course of history shows that as a government grows, liberty decreases."

      Huh. Well this is obviously untrue. More Americans enjoy far more liberty today than at any period in American history, perhaps in human history. Yeah, it's not perfect, but we're doing a lot better than our grandparents did, despite the extra government we choose to have.

      Just because it chooses not to act now doesn't mean it couldn't later.

      --
      Disclaimer: The opinions and actions of the US Gov't are in no way representative of those held by this author or its ci
    244. Re:Multiple interpretations by Hordeking · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Also, if you look at today vs 100 years ago, we enjoy far less freedom than our grandparents. Have you ever been afraid to ask question for fear of being investigated for terrorism (This situation has a actually occurred to me, though it was pretty groundless.).

      Modern technology allows a lot more fine detail to be saved. If you go check out a book from the library, the FBI can easily find out what you got. 50 years ago, that was far more difficult. I'm very careful about what books I check out now.

      --
      Disclaimer: The opinions and actions of the US Gov't are in no way representative of those held by this author or its ci
    245. Re:Multiple interpretations by rohan972 · · Score: 1

      As for your opinion on copyright terms, I must disagree, and I think that intellectual piracy had very little to do with American industrial power, but I'm not an expert on that part of American history.

      You don't need to be an expert, cheap books (as a result of not paying royalties) made widespread education more available, ability to build patented industrial equipment without payment enabled industry. You can see the same in developed countries were copying software enables them to build their technological (and therefore productive) capabilities, once they get going MS and friends lobby to hit them up for multi-billion dollar payments. They let them use it virtually without protest first because if they had to pay up front they could never get their production happening using that technology. In any case, in the US it wasn't "intellectual piracy", it was the law. Those living in countries that don't sign international "IP" treaties have no individual moral obligation to abide by those treaties.

      Second, I think you are undervaluing the impact of economics and the free market on availability of creative materials - it has far more impact than copyright terms do. But that's a different discussion, for a different time...

      So hypothetically I can concede this point to you and we'll just abolish copyright laws as being of little value? They don't significantly increase production of works but simply give some people the ability to leverage payment from the public for no benefit to society? I'm not arguing this, just pointing out what seems to be the natural conclusion if you are correct. Copyright law places economic value on the production of many works that would otherwise have no economic incentive to be produced. Many of those works would not be produced at all if not for copyright laws in my opinion. By "available" I don't mean "is on the shelf at $259.95" for a work with $0 reproduction cost, I mean available to be used unrestricted, ie public domain.

    246. Re:Multiple interpretations by redcaboodle · · Score: 1

      Should have tried the demo first.

      I wanted to have Doom 3, too after I upgraded my graphics card. Thankfully, it was a weekend so I downloaded the demo. The third time a mob spawned inside me, so I could see only part of its polys while it was merrily shooting away at me, I decided Doom 3 did not fit my mode of play, deleted it and turned back to Deus Ex.

      --
      -- Put crudely, the world is an extremely large problem instance. (Russel/Norvig Artificial Intelligence)
    247. Re:Multiple interpretations by khellendros1984 · · Score: 1

      Depending on the school of thought to which you subscribe, your perceptions might define your reality.

      --
      It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
    248. Re:Multiple interpretations by khellendros1984 · · Score: 1

      ummmm....what? Neither of those things would be dictated by a growth of government. They're social changes that are originally dictated by law, but come to be accepted only over the long term.

      --
      It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
    249. Re:Multiple interpretations by khellendros1984 · · Score: 1

      And that quote is from about 200 years ago, when there wasn't welfare (at least not in its current, government-mandated form).

      --
      It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
    250. Re:Multiple interpretations by Eskarel · · Score: 1

      No one is saying that you shouldn't make money off your work(well no one worth listening to).

      No one is even saying that you should lose your copyright the second you die.

      What they're saying is that you shouldn't be able to make money in perpetuity off of one piece of work. I have to keep working to make money and so should you.

    251. Re:Multiple interpretations by khellendros1984 · · Score: 1

      When I first played the demos for Doom 3, I had a computer that was 3 years old, and the game still ran fine. I have no idea what your problem was.

      --
      It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
    252. Re:Multiple interpretations by khellendros1984 · · Score: 1

      Doom's graphics were several steps above Wolfenstein's. Wolf didn't have textured floors and ceilings, didn't have raised and lowered sections of floor, didn't have views outside, didn't have animated textures on the ceiling/floors/walls, ran fewer sound effects at a time, and had fewer enemies and variations in the environment. Doom was *amazing* after seeing Wolfenstein.

      --
      It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
    253. Re:Multiple interpretations by Zak3056 · · Score: 1

      Currently there is an obsession with triple A games in the industry that go way beyond my comprehension. Everything is hype with graphics, most of the time to the detriment of gameplay, scenario and (the biggest blunder of all) art direction. Because everything now as to be REALISTISTIC!

      I think VGCats put it best in this comic.

      --
      What part of "shall not be infringed" is so hard to understand?
    254. Re:Multiple interpretations by khellendros1984 · · Score: 1

      What's so hard about that? You aren't a programmer, are you? Dealing with 3d (even pseudo-3d) adds a whole new level of programming difficulty. And the parent was giving ways that Doom had better graphics than Wolfenstein, not making an apples-to-oranges comparison to a game in a completely different genre.

      --
      It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
    255. Re:Multiple interpretations by khellendros1984 · · Score: 1

      Ultima was true 3d; there were ramps going up and down, bridges you could pass over and under, even a few polygonal props in the game. Doom was pseudo-3d. The maps were 2 dimensional grids, with properties assigned to each cell (elevation, textures, enemy/item locations, etc). There *was* no up or down, except for when it made decisions about if you could walk into a square.
      //Spent *huge* amounts of time playing both games...and still have original copies of each.

      --
      It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
    256. Re:Multiple interpretations by theaveng · · Score: 1

      >>>More Americans enjoy far more liberty today than at any period in American history,

      How can you be free when your neighbors can gain access to your wallet for whatever they desire (new car, new home, food stamps, cover their retirement expenses, ...)? That basically makes you a slave where you work for others' enrichment, not yourself.

      --
      FOX NEWS.com should be BANNED from television and internet. Have the Congress take it over and give us Truespeak.
    257. Re:Multiple interpretations by theaveng · · Score: 1

      >>>Try not paying at a hotel sometime because you didn't like the service. That'll be fun.

      I have.

      Thrice.

      The first two times I was given "store credit" which allowed me to stay for free at any Motel 6 in the nation. The third time I had to file a credit card chargeback, and I won a full refund. My argument is that is a motel gives refunds/store credits, why can't record and movie companies do the same for their customers? The thousands of other industries give refunds; why should the entertainment industry be any different.

      --
      FOX NEWS.com should be BANNED from television and internet. Have the Congress take it over and give us Truespeak.
    258. Re:Multiple interpretations by theaveng · · Score: 1

      >>>Just don't kid yourself about what you're doing, and don't act like you're entitled to it.

      STRAWMAN ARGUMENT. I never said I was "entitled" to pirated downloads. I said I'm entitled to a refund when I buy a piece of trash, same as I've thrice received refunds for lousy hotel stays, or refunds for broken PSPs, or whatever.

      Case in point:

      I bought a DVD called Left Behind Part 3. It refused to work. So I took it back to Walmart and politely asked for a refund, but they insisted I had to do an exchange. No prob for me, except they were sold out! I ended-up going home with a DVD that refused to work. ---- No other industry refuses refunds for broken or crappy items. Why should the media industry be able to do it?

      --
      FOX NEWS.com should be BANNED from television and internet. Have the Congress take it over and give us Truespeak.
    259. Re:Multiple interpretations by theaveng · · Score: 1

      When you watch cable television, your entertainment is being paid for by the corporations. Yes there's a monthly 50 cent "subscriber fee" collected by TNT, USA, et cetera, but most of the cost comes from the ads, which cost thousands of dollars per minute.

      50 cents from you, thousands from the corporations. The corporations are bearing the burden. BUT with DVD there's no corporations backing the cost of the show, so you have to bear most of the burden yourself, paying about $3 per hour of TV episode (instead of 50 cents per month).

      --
      FOX NEWS.com should be BANNED from television and internet. Have the Congress take it over and give us Truespeak.
    260. Re:Multiple interpretations by theaveng · · Score: 1

      He's suing citizens in order to suck millions of dollars out of their wallets (OR sending extortionate letters demanding $5000 to make the lawsuit go away).

      The RIAA CEO is not as bad as Saddam but he's still pretty bad. He's a tyrant consumed with the two worst sins: ambition and avarice... he's ruining people's lives.

      --
      FOX NEWS.com should be BANNED from television and internet. Have the Congress take it over and give us Truespeak.
    261. Re:Multiple interpretations by theaveng · · Score: 1

      I certainly would not have joined the SS.

      Perhaps you would have just rolled-over and done nothing while millions were killed, but not me. Life is not so precious that I'm willing to just stand by & watch others die. I probably would have done what Oscar Schindler did & try to SAVE lives rather than exterminate them.

      --
      FOX NEWS.com should be BANNED from television and internet. Have the Congress take it over and give us Truespeak.
    262. Re:Multiple interpretations by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Music piracy is not the same as video game piracy. While music can be used as a way to sell concert tickets and tangible merchandise, video game makers don't have that to fall back on.

      Pirating music may kill the recording industry as we know it, but music will survive and artists may ultimately benefit. Video games have a much harder time with piracy.

    263. Re:Multiple interpretations by theaveng · · Score: 1

      Someone who is unwilling to fight for liberty or freedom..... deserves neither.

      The RIAA CEO is pillaging citizens for thousands of dollars through sending them extortionate letters (pay up or else), and if they do not comply then he sues them for millions in court. How you can sit there and pretend this is "a-okay" and the CEO is "just a nice guy" is beyond my comprehension.

      Collaborator.

      --
      FOX NEWS.com should be BANNED from television and internet. Have the Congress take it over and give us Truespeak.
    264. Re:Multiple interpretations by theaveng · · Score: 1

      P.S. To borrow a phrase from the Klingons (yes I'm a geek):

      It is better to die in battle fighting for a cause (which would be individual liberty), than to die of old age.

      --
      FOX NEWS.com should be BANNED from television and internet. Have the Congress take it over and give us Truespeak.
    265. Re:Multiple interpretations by theaveng · · Score: 1

      >>>I sort of feel about the free market like Churchill felt about democracy.

      It would work a lot better if we eliminated corporations and went back to companies owned by individuals. Corporations have no morals except "make money". Individuals have other morals they follow... for example James Cash Penney was a deeply religious man who refused to accept credit cards because "we should not put people into debt". Of course once the store incorporated that morality was thrown right out the window.

      We need to take a step back, and consider that corporations may cause more problems than they are worth, and perhaps smaller companies owned by one or two individuals is the better route.

      --
      FOX NEWS.com should be BANNED from television and internet. Have the Congress take it over and give us Truespeak.
    266. Re:Multiple interpretations by leabre · · Score: 1

      The RIAA is supposed to be a non-profit organization. Non-profit organizations do not seek to maximize profits or they can lose their non profit status with the SEC.

    267. Re:Multiple interpretations by vux984 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      How can you be free when your neighbors can gain access to your wallet for whatever they desire (new car, new home, food stamps, cover their retirement expenses, ...)? That basically makes you a slave where you work for others' enrichment, not yourself.

      Why on earth are you a slave working for other' enrichment?

      According to your logic, all you have to do to stop being a slave is to quit working and just access your neighbors wallets for whatever you desire. Freedom is closer than you think. ;)

    268. Re:Multiple interpretations by Chris+Tucker · · Score: 1

      And it took the courts and legislature to actually recognize that fellow human beings who happen to not have pink colored skin were actually American citizens with ALL the rights of citizens who did have pink colored skin.

      And why? Because there was a government BIG enough, with enough power to enforce the decisions of the Supreme Court, I.E., Brown vs Board of Education. Being able to send in the 82nd Airborne to Little Rock (as I recal) to enforce the Supreme Court decision is the action of a big, strong government, not a small, weak government, so beloved by Libertarians and other Randroids.

      As for marriage equality, again, the godbotherers want to decide who has rights and who doesn't. As the bible has as much legitimacy in the legislature as does "The Bobsey Twins go to The Circus", it falls to the courts to ensure that the words, "All persons are equal before the law, and will enjoy equal protection under the law" are more than empty words, devoid of meaning and authority.

      --
      Guaranteed! This comment 100% Anthrax free!
    269. Re:Multiple interpretations by Reziac · · Score: 1

      There is that, but my point was that so far as what average consumers see, there's a huge disconnect between "free broadcast" and "pricey DVDs". Hence the perception of price gouging for DVDs.

      Also... that broadcast content was already paid for by the corps the first time around. Why should DVD buyers have to pay the same amount for what is essentially "used content" ??

      --
      ~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
    270. Re:Multiple interpretations by Guitarist4096 · · Score: 0
      DISCLAIMER: I may be a republican, but I had no joy at that ballot--I hated all the candidates.

      And again - which ones are they? Joe Biden as VP? That's hardly any worse than Sarah Palin for VP. And if experience is a requisite for being president, then how the hell can you elect Sarah Palin as the VP candidate? She had less experience than Obama to begin with. And being a mayor of a city with 8,000 people is hardly indicative of ones ability to lead a nation. I'm not judging, just curious about why "these people" don't settle for one standard instead of two

      The double standards piss me off to no end... For starters, consider that Sarah Palin is actually Governor of Alaska, in addition to having been a Mayor once. But people forget about that point. They'd rather focus on how little responsibility a Mayor has in comparison to VP. Despite that, that is STILL more executive experience than Obama, Biden, & McCain put together. None of them have ever served in any sort of executive office. And say what you will about Alaska, but last time I checked, a governor is not only over the people in the state, but is essentially in charge of the lands of the state, and makes decisions about it too. That makes Sarah Palin in charge of more land than any other governor in the U.S. It is also one of only 2 states that don't border any other U.S. states.

      That aside, Obama has been for "Change", as his campaigning slogan suggests. He talked of doing away with the old bureaucratic processes that prevent change. If that's so, why have the longest running senator, who's been doing those very bureaucratic processes longer than anyone else, as your running mate, and VP?

      Double standards, indeed.

      --
      Why is it a penny for your thoughts, but you have to put your two cents in? Somebody's making a penny. --Steven Wright
    271. Re:Multiple interpretations by zerocool^ · · Score: 1

      Not to mention, doom2 had vertical height, which wolfenstein didn't have either. Now, granted, you could only ever be at one point on the z axis (you couldn't simultaneously walk under a staircase that allowed you to walk up it, too), but still.

      ~X

      --
      sig?
    272. Re:Multiple interpretations by Red+Flayer · · Score: 1

      Meh, you missed a golden opportunity to remain funny while pointing out some of the obvious contradictions in slashdot groupthink:

      McCain sucks.
      Obama rules.
      Ron Paul is awesomer than Obama.
      We need to socialize everything.
      The free market will solve all problems.
      Taxes are bad.
      Government services are good.
      Monopolies are bad.
      Regulations are bad.

      Anyway, while the posters on Slashdot tend to have some strongly shared opinions, there are still quite a few dissenting opinions. The nice thing about Slashdot is that dissenting opinions can still be read, and often there are great replies that will point out the holes in anyone's arguments.

      That said... I'm in the slashdot mahjority on most topics (IP being one I'm not completely aligned with the herd on), and I am glad that the crackpots (including myself, at times) get refuted.

      --
      "Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
    273. Re:Multiple interpretations by blitziod · · Score: 1

      Let's letthem keep them copyrighted for 200 years, but lets TAX THE HELL out of the rights holder after the first say 25. Let's make an IP tax. Kinda like a property tax, but for IP. Let's say NO tax for IP untill it's 25th B day. Then we charge a pretty penny to keep it OUT of teh public domain. I mean if I own a building I pay tax on it. NY could tax disney for there IP, CA too. they could generate lots of revinue.

      --
      The only way to bust a doper--is when you yourself become a smoker!
    274. Re:Multiple interpretations by dangitman · · Score: 1

      I'd bet that the reason we don't see another monkey island or similar is due to piracy.

      Yeah right, people and companies aren't going to develop new games or innovate because of piracy. Just like nobody makes any new music anymore because of piracy. Sorry, this argument just doesn't make sense logically or economically. People still rake in money writing games and music, and aside from the money, there are always creative types who create because they are internally driven to, not because of a profit motive.

      --
      ... and then they built the supercollider.
    275. Re:Multiple interpretations by Lobster+Quadrille · · Score: 1

      Sorry, I'll finish my sentence:

      Don't act like you're entitled to it just because you weren't happy with your previous purchases.

      Think what you will, but you are NOT entitled to a refund, a free download, or a rubdown just because you made a stupid purchase. It's admittedly been a long time since I purchased media from Walmart, but I distinctly remember signs saying something like "no returns on opened merchandise". The sales clerk even said something to that effect and had me sign the receipt, which had the return policy printed on it. That's pretty common practice for the industry, no matter where you buy your media.

      Regardless, saying that "No other industry refuses refunds for broken or crappy items" is simply not true- I can't buy a bottle of wine and return it after opening it because I didn't like it- even if I didn't drink it. As noted earlier, the tourism, service and entertainment industries don't offer refunds as a general rule. I can't buy a lapdance and take my money back if I didn't enjoy it (well, I can try, but I'm pretty sure the Guy With The Muscles would beat me down).

      Caveat emptor. The return policies obviously aren't news to you, so don't act like it's a surprise when it bites you in the ass.

      --
      "The cup is in turn designed for holding hot or cold liquids, and has an open rim and closed base." --US Patent #5425497
    276. Re:Multiple interpretations by dangitman · · Score: 1

      World of Goo was an awesome game and its gameplay didn't seem dated, nor was there some feature you feel was missing. It still feels like a modern game, despite not being a polygon powerhouse.

      I think that disproves the idea about good games being less profitable than "bling" games. Sure, World of Goo might not sell as many copies as Fallout 3 - but World of Goo was developed by a single person. It doesn't have massive marketing costs. Basically, all the money goes to that individual developer. I wouldn't be surprised if that developer was making more profit than the individual shares of profit from a blockbuster like Fallout 3 or GTA IV, which require massive teams to produce, and large overhead costs.

      --
      ... and then they built the supercollider.
    277. Re:Multiple interpretations by dangitman · · Score: 1

      and only retards like country and western music

      You have both kinds? Blasphemy!

      --
      ... and then they built the supercollider.
    278. Re:Multiple interpretations by mdmkolbe · · Score: 1

      extreme liberal positions

      Which ones are they?

      Sure he's not European-style liberal, but despite how he portrayed himself in the election, his record is old fashioned strait-up American-style liberal. Keep in mind that liberal vs. conservative in the USA is a completely different axis than in Europe not only in degree but in what issues are addressed.

      You asked for specific positions so here they are:

      • Abortion
      • Environment
      • LGBT issues
      • Sex Education
      • Gun Control
      • Embrionic Stem Cells

      On all of these he takes the standard American-liberal position. About the only thing not liberal about him is that he voted for the PATRIOT act (but then again so did 99% of the senators) and he waffles a little on the Death Penalty.

      Objectively speaking there is no question that Barrack Obama is a liberal (by American measures).

    279. Re:Multiple interpretations by dangitman · · Score: 1

      My hope is that copyright will one day be removed from law, since its an amoral way of trying to make money.

      That doesn't make any sense. What's wrong with amorally trying to make money? It's a hell of a lot better than immorally making money, and I'm not sure what a "moral" way of making money would be. If you are doing something moral, then it shouldn't be about making money.

      --
      ... and then they built the supercollider.
    280. Re:Multiple interpretations by dangitman · · Score: 1

      For example I bought Season 2 of Heroes, and it was lousy. How was I supposed to know it was lousy until AFTER I had watched it?

      Duh. It's called "Heroes" - what did you expect, Shakespeare?

      --
      ... and then they built the supercollider.
    281. Re:Multiple interpretations by dangitman · · Score: 1

      If the TV has a lousy picture, you can get a refund. If a Playstation does not work, same deal. If the service at the hotel was shit, you don't pay. TV shows should have the same guarantee.

      So, you should get a guarantee based on your taste, as opposed to the other more objective qualities you mentioned?

      I'd hate to see a society based on your idea, which basically amounts to "I demand satisfaction!" and anybody who has an unpleasant experience demands restitution. That's life, baby. Suck it up. Nobody can guarantee your fragile and subjective experience of the world. Stuff often sucks.

      --
      ... and then they built the supercollider.
    282. Re:Multiple interpretations by mdmkolbe · · Score: 1

      If that's the case, then where's this decade's extension?

      I don't know. When is Mickey Mouse scheduled to go into the public domain?

    283. Re:Multiple interpretations by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      executive experience
      The election is over, you can stop trolling now.

      Also, good job missing the point entirely.

    284. Re:Multiple interpretations by dangitman · · Score: 1

      I said I'm entitled to a refund when I buy a piece of trash, same as I've thrice received refunds for lousy hotel stays, or refunds for broken PSPs, or whatever.

      Sure, and you're entitled to a refund if you buy a DVD that is faulty. But not just because you didn't enjoy it as much as you thought you would.

      No other industry refuses refunds for broken or crappy items. Why should the media industry be able to do it?

      Last time I checked, Walmart is not in the "media industry," but rather the retail industry.

      --
      ... and then they built the supercollider.
    285. Re:Multiple interpretations by dangitman · · Score: 1

      I don't have that luxury, therefore I can't afford to waste $50 on the lousy Season 2 of Heroes.

      So, why did you buy it, if $50 is something you can't afford? You obviously knew how much it cost when you bought it, and made your decision.

      --
      ... and then they built the supercollider.
    286. Re:Multiple interpretations by Garwulf · · Score: 1

      "I don't know. When is Mickey Mouse scheduled to go into the public domain?"

      It's not - Mickey Mouse is protected under trademark, not copyright. So long as Disney wishes to maintain it, the trademark is theirs.

      --
      Robert B. Marks
      Author, Demonsbane in Diablo Archive
    287. Re:Multiple interpretations by Arterion · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I remember in UW, you could fall off bridges to your death. It was, in some places, a bit like a 3D platform game. What I thought was most impressive was the interactive nature of items, just like in the rest of the Ultima series. You could pick up items and even throw them.

      Comparing the gameplay to a modern RPG, it was actually pretty good. It had an interesting setting and story, and interesting magic system, and lots of room to explore. The only downside is that the entire game was in a dungeon setting. No free-roaming across Brittania. (But we did finally get to see all of Brittania in 3D in U9, seven years later.)

      --
      "That which does not kill us makes us stranger." -Trevor Goodchild
    288. Re:Multiple interpretations by dangitman · · Score: 1

      So the execution of Japanese officers post-WW2 were wrong in your view.

      I'm not the other poster, but yes, the execution of anybody is wrong. The death penalty is an affront to civilization. I'm not sure how you can "oppose tyranny" yet support execution at the same time. The death penalty is tyranny in its purest form.

      --
      ... and then they built the supercollider.
    289. Re:Multiple interpretations by mdmkolbe · · Score: 1

      Under current interpretations of copyright law, Mickey Mouse is protected by both copyright and trademark.

    290. Re:Multiple interpretations by Garwulf · · Score: 1

      True enough. But when Steamboat Willie goes into the public domain, Mickey Mouse won't follow - the trademark will remain.

      --
      Robert B. Marks
      Author, Demonsbane in Diablo Archive
    291. Re:Multiple interpretations by mdmkolbe · · Score: 1

      Yes, and Disney wants to keep both protections.

      Both the 9th circuit and the 2nd circuit have ruled that fictitious characters may receive copyright protection (through reasoning that I don't understand how it is derived from the statutes). This is to say that any brand new drawing containing the character of Mickey Mouse is a derivative work of the Steamboat Willie animation and thus as long as Steamboat Willie is under copyright, if you use Mickey Mouse then Disney can go after you for both copyright infringement and trademark infringement.

      Disney wants copyright protection because it is much stronger than trademark protection. In particular trademark only has effect when the infringing use could lead to brand confusion. Copyright always has effect (except for Fair Use).

    292. Re:Multiple interpretations by Garwulf · · Score: 1

      You're twisting things terribly there.

      First of all, if Steamboat Willie goes into the public domain, there are still decades of Mickey Mouse cartoons that are under copyright.

      Second, if you try to use Mickey Mouse Disney might tack on copyright issues, but the suit they'll hit you with is the trademark suit. Aside from which, how would you use Mickey Mouse, a character so associated with Disney it is next only to the Disney castle, without causing brand confusion?

      Believe me, Disney has nothing to fear from Steamboat Willie going out of copyright protection. They DO, however, have something to fear if Europe views the United States as being behind the times on copyright law - that impacts international trade and even their talent base.

      And that, by the way, was the reason for the Sonny Bono law. European copyright was the major issue, not Mickey Mouse. Mickey Mouse was the issue that Lawrence Lessig latched onto, but what I've read in what few peer-reviewed law journals regarding the case suggests that Lessig was off his rocker and got defeated due to not arriving in court with a proper case. This article is long, but it is peer-reviewed, and it does cover the case, as well as why Lessig was defeated: http://llr.lls.edu/volumes/v36-issue1/martin-original1.pdf

      --
      Robert B. Marks
      Author, Demonsbane in Diablo Archive
    293. Re:Multiple interpretations by Omestes · · Score: 1

      I would love it if abandonware games were GPLed, but as the law stands, there pretty much is a fat chance of that happening, right now it still rests on the consumers trust of the company to live up to its promises while going through its death throes.

      I doubt we will be able to have internet everywhere, affordable, and in a platform that can handle games soon. And still we rely on the trust of who ever is hosting it allowing us to enjoy it years down the road. I don't even trust Valve/Steam, since I thought that Interplay would be around forever just a couple years ago. All things are temporary, no matter how solvent they are today.

      As for your sig, Agnosticism would be the absence of knowledge, not decisiveness.

      --
      A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government. -edward abbey
    294. Re:Multiple interpretations by Omestes · · Score: 1

      I wasn't really critiquing the free market, it was more an attack on how we approach it. Oddly we give corporations the status of people (when convenient), but refuse to hold them to the moral criteria we hold for individuals. This isn't so much a flaw in the free market, but more a flaw in how our society approaches it.

      The idea that greed is the mother of all morals, or at least allotted the privilege of being agnostic to morality, is also a problem.

      I don't have a solution for this, using the free market, or opposing it. Though I think Marx was originally right, eventually free market capitalism will collapse on itself, or at least have to come back in line with the values that any given society holds for itself. To ward off the flames, I'm not saying socialism, or communism, is an answer, nor is extensive government regulation, though some might be necessary to ward off the more harmful of predatory practices.

      "...except I don't know who should decide (or what standard they should use) which companies are unethical."

      I doubt there ever could be a universal criteria. It is like the old definition of pornography; you know it when you see it. In certain cases it is obvious (putting your workers or customers into harms way for a profit, lying, bribing officials for a better deal against the public interest), but most of the time we deal with nice shades of gray.

      --
      A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government. -edward abbey
    295. Re:Multiple interpretations by EsbenMoseHansen · · Score: 1

      I'd bet that the reason we don't see another monkey island or similar is due to piracy.

      Yeah right, people and companies aren't going to develop new games or innovate because of piracy. Just like nobody makes any new music anymore because of piracy. Sorry, this argument just doesn't make sense logically or economically. People still rake in money writing games and music, and aside from the money, there are always creative types who create because they are internally driven to, not because of a profit motive.

      Strawman. I said certain types of games, championed by monkey island in this case, are no longer getting developed, because the upfront cost ($10â?) does not, on average, repaid by sales. An investor will not throw money away, as you wouldn't. And yes, this argument makes sense economically (more piracy leads to less sales leads to poorer payback). You could argue that this is not what happens; but studies very much indicate that this is so, Logically, it trivially makes sense, but I suspect you don't know what that word means (I don't blame you, I am a mathematician)

      As for the idealist, then yes, that happens, and still do. But the result is not gorgeous, fun games, because enthusiasm does not pay rent, and one man can only do so much. Perhaps open source can step in and help here, I don't know, but right now this doesn't appear to be happening.

      --
      Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by rulers as useful.
    296. Re:Multiple interpretations by EsbenMoseHansen · · Score: 1

      I would love it if abandonware games were GPLed, but as the law stands, there pretty much is a fat chance of that happening, right now it still rests on the consumers trust of the company to live up to its promises while going through its death throes.

      If this was something consumers wanted, say because it's on a server as opposed to on CDs, this could easily be done. Of course, if there is no real demand, that will not happen.

      I doubt we will be able to have internet everywhere, affordable, and in a platform that can handle games soon.

      You can get it in my country (DK) right now, at affordable if not quite cheap, prizes right now, I'm guessing you are American (from your posting time, don't kill me if I'm wrong), and I hear US is a bit behind with that sort of thing, but no doubt it will happen there, too.

      And still we rely on the trust of who ever is hosting it allowing us to enjoy it years down the road. I don't even trust Valve/Steam, since I thought that Interplay would be around forever just a couple years ago. All things are temporary, no matter how solvent they are today.

      Indeed. But then, the other day, I wanted to play a 10 year old game (Severance: Blade of darkness) --- and I couldn't. It doesn't work with any version of windows that I can currently install on any machine, nor in wine, due to DRM. So you method is no garantee, either.

      As for your sig, Agnosticism would be the absence of knowledge, not decisiveness.

      MY sig is a joke, which, due to the restrictions that slashdot has on signature length, has been shortened so far down that not everyone gets it. Sorry about that. Though I'll gladly debate agnosticim, I think that would not be on topic this time around.

      --
      Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by rulers as useful.
    297. Re:Multiple interpretations by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      First off, a huge number of people don't trust reviews. Most everyone I know at least, have figured out that reviews are just filler text, and if you want to know about something you have to experience it yourself. The other options (other than youtube, which as you mentioned is illegal also) cost money. If the purpose is to download something and try it out _without spending money_, then things like netflix are exactly NOT the answer.

      I think that a lot of places are actually understanding this now, and have started to offer up either some episodes or decent clips free to view. I've even seen a few places with full movies at low resolution available to stream.

      What if you went to buy a car and they charged you for the test drive? Or how about trying a sample at the store only to have the lady tell you, "That will be 25 cents please."? Or coin slots on changing rooms? etc etc etc

    298. Re:Multiple interpretations by plasmacutter · · Score: 1

      On the contrary, I think he has a very good idea of what it is and what it does.

      I also think "re-education" has been used elsewhere.

      Those places/times included:

      1930's germany
      stalinist russia
      any dystopian novel or movie you've seen. (I think I remember a few twilight zone episodes too)

      Maybe the 99% of people 35 and lower who share files should all be shipped off to "re-education camps".

      I find it incredible that these companies can continue to perpetrate the crimes against the populace and lobby for the laws they do when they produce the very films and books which show how horrific and counterproductive their efforts are.

      "The more you tighten your grip, the more star systems fall through your fingers"

      --
      VLC FOR MAC IS DYING! IF YOU DEVELOP, PLEASE SAVE IT!!
    299. Re:Multiple interpretations by plasmacutter · · Score: 1

      no, most of the time it doesn't.

      college is full of derelicts who are just there "for the experience".

      republicans are rich through inheritance and cronyism, not by their own hand, but they do have the money, and it's customary for those who have the money to send their kids to college.

      Also, never having to handle being at the absolute mercy of someone else breeds intolerance and selfishness bordering on psychopathy. These characteristics are typical of republicans, who would rather see people suffer and die than produce money for healthcare costs, and view war as some kind of contact sport.

      So no, they are not well educated, they skipped half their classes and attended frat parties.

      --
      VLC FOR MAC IS DYING! IF YOU DEVELOP, PLEASE SAVE IT!!
    300. Re:Multiple interpretations by plasmacutter · · Score: 1

      or a clone of the french bill to force customers to pay anyway.

      --
      VLC FOR MAC IS DYING! IF YOU DEVELOP, PLEASE SAVE IT!!
    301. Re:Multiple interpretations by MartinSchou · · Score: 1

      You asked for specific positions so here they are:

      • Abortion
      • Environment
      • LGBT issues
      • Sex Education
      • Gun Control
      • Embrionic Stem Cells

      Actually those are issues, not positions on those issues. Again I'm left to fill in the blanks, so let's do that:

      • Abortion - "Almost as good as a condom"
      • Environment - "Keep Bambi safe from lead poisoning - use a baseball club instead"
      • LGBT issues - "Keep children away from the gays - don't send them to sunday school"
      • Sex Education - "Practical, report to me in the stationery cupboard"
      • Gun Control - "Keep guns out of the hands of minors. Teach them how to shoot with their feet"
      • Embrionic Stem Cells - "Better than an omlet and much more exclusive"
    302. Re:Multiple interpretations by drsmithy · · Score: 1

      here is a hypothetical: I am an artist. I spent most of my adult life poor, my family is also poor because of this. Right around the age of 50 I make a hit. It is going to sell and I am going to get paid like a rockstar. I tragically die. Should my family not get the money from my hardwork?

      Here is another hypothetical. I am a labourer. I spent most of my adult life poor, my family is also poor because of this. Right around 45 I decided to start part-time University and get an economics degree. At 50, I start my first job and 2 months later I have provided an order of magnitude higher returns than any of my peers. My boss recognises this and gives me a fat raise, doubling my salary. The next day I tragically die.

      Should my family be paid out my higher salary for the rest of their lives (and their families lives) ? Why should they not enjoy that money that I worked for

    303. Re:Multiple interpretations by dangitman · · Score: 1

      Again, the evidence doesn't bear it out. Look at music. Despite the claims of rampant piracy, there is an even greater diversity of niche music than ever before. Similarly with games - independent developers are thriving like they never have before, thanks to internet distribution. There is more variety in games today than there's ever been before. Your argument appears to be based on nothing but nostalgia.

      --
      ... and then they built the supercollider.
    304. Re:Multiple interpretations by drsmithy · · Score: 1

      In what industry? In the majority of industries, piracy is NOT the norm, and it is only the minority who are doing it. The only industry where I've seen any respectable figures that measure piracy is the games industry, and they are quite alarming.

      I doubt you'll find many people under 30 (possibly even 35) who think downloading music or movies from the internet is "wrong".

      Considering that your opinion is not shared by the courts, who have repeatedly hammered the RIAA on legal grounds, among others, I think your opinion is somewhat flawed. If the RIAA really did represent the letter or spirit of the law, they would have won more cases, and a class-action suit would not have been filed against them.

      I was under the impression that the RIAA was losing because of evidence-gathering methods, and the like, not because the courts had decided sharing music and movies you don't hold the copyright for was A-OK.

      Aside from which, you've made another leap of logic here - you're assuming that the distribution industry doesn't impact the creative end. You can have the most wonderful book, painting, song, or film in the world, and it doesn't mean squat if you can't get it out to people. Content distribution itself isn't necessarily cheap - trust me on this one, I have to do it. It certainly isn't often easy.

      There's no reason, today, for content distribution [of things like music, etc] to end users to be expensive. This would be especially true if those monopolising major distribution channels were to suddenly go out of business.

      And I think you just proved my point about misinformation and the difficulties in making people understand what copyright really is and does.

      Perhaps, then, you can offer some justification for the incredibly generous privileges that benefit those on the copyright gravy train ? Perhaps you can explain why you deserve to continue receiving income in perpetuity from work you have already completed ? Perhaps you can give a reason why your family (and their families, and likely their families' families) should receive compensation for work they didn't do ? Maybe you can even explain how a system designed to still be paying your descendants 3-4 generations after you've died could possibly offer any incentive to work more ?

      No other member of society has receives benefits remotely as generous for their work. Even the packages given to politicians (and their families), or "negotiated" by unions, pale into insignificance beside the ability to do some work at twenty years old, and still have your great-grandchildren receiving compensation for that work.

      The only people who need "re-education" are the ones who think they should be freeloading off the rest of society for 150 years.

    305. Re:Multiple interpretations by drsmithy · · Score: 1

      What should change about copyright law to avoid the copyright infringement and still allow the using of 20+millions of mullah to develop a game?

      The problem here isn't copyright law, it's economics.

      It seems a lot of people have misunderstood me here. I did not mean the monkey island (original game) remake or something like that; I meant another good, funny and stunning graphical adventure. They have gotten very rare, and I fear it is because such games are almost impossible to properly protect from copyright infringement. At least, that is what my contacts in the game industry tells me, and I have no reason to doubt them.

      It is a struggle to see any reason why the genre of a [single-player, standalone, not online] game should have the slightest bearing on how easy it is to 'protect' from piracy. It's like arguing that engine immobilisers are only useful for four-door sedans, and won't work on sports cars or SUVs.

    306. Re:Multiple interpretations by Garwulf · · Score: 1

      That's it - I'm calling bullshit here.

      "Perhaps, then, you can offer some justification for the incredibly generous privileges that benefit those on the copyright gravy train?"

      You mean like poverty and working your ass off for what eventually works out to less than minimum wage? In Canada, the average income of artists is less than $25,000 per year. In the United States, the average income for a creative artist is $34,800 per year (http://en.artron.net/news/news.php?newid=52152&column_id=61). If a writer is lucky, around his or her third or fourth book the money s/he receives will break through to equating to the minimum wage. Somebody like Stephen King is the vast exception - most creative artists struggle to keep a roof over their heads and food on their table. So, want to tell me why those generous privileges don't include a professional-level income?

      "Perhaps you can explain why you deserve to continue receiving income in perpetuity from work you have already completed?"

      That's a straw man argument. Creative artists DON'T have that right. They have the right to try to make money from their work for their lifetimes plus 50 or 70 years, depending on the country. "Try" is the operative word. Almost none succeed. For that matter, the average lifespan of a book tends to be less than 10 years.

      Copyright is not a form of creative welfare. If you want to make money as a creative artist in your old age, you frequently get to keep working while everybody else has retired, or die in poverty. You'd better love the work you do, because you're doing it until the day you die.

      Oh yes, by the way, there is something that does allow people to make money for the rest of their lives for work they've already done - it's called a pension. Most creative artists don't get those.

      "Perhaps you can give a reason why your family (and their families, and likely their families' families) should receive compensation for work they didn't do?"

      Perhaps you can justify inheritance law to me, then. After all, why should your children and grandchildren receive benefits after you've died for the work you've done? They didn't do that work. Or are you about to say that it's not the same thing because it's a book manuscript instead of a house?

      "Maybe you can even explain how a system designed to still be paying your descendants 3-4 generations after you've died could possibly offer any incentive to work more ?"

      Maybe you can learn how to count. Lifetime +50 to 70 is children and grandchildren. That's two - not three or four.

      This may come as a shock to you, but knowing that I can leave my family a literary legacy when I die IS something that motivates me to make it the best legacy I can leave. People are concerned about what happens to their families after they're gone.

      "The only people who need "re-education" are the ones who think they should be freeloading off the rest of society for 150 years."

      As opposed to those who just want to freeload off of a segment of society while damning them for being greedy bastards even though they generally live in poverty?

      --
      Robert B. Marks
      Author, Demonsbane in Diablo Archive
    307. Re:Multiple interpretations by Shakrai · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I think you've mistaken this site for another one where your whining would have received a more favorable audience. I quoted Jefferson and you responded with a completely unrelated rant about Jim Crow and the gay rights movement? WTF?

      It's an outrage how our freedoms and liberties are being eroded by the liberals and the ACLU and George Soros and Michael Moore and Al Gore!

      Where was the word 'liberal' used in my original post and why are you playing the victimization card? I don't limit my blame to the liberals when talking about the Government taking away my liberties. Conservatives are all too happy to erode my 4th and 5th amendment rights. Liberals are all too happy to erode my 2nd amendment rights.

      As far as I'm concerned neither side can be trusted. Any illusions I had to the contrary evaporated when Obama reversed himself on FISA.

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    308. Re:Multiple interpretations by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      Neither do I; the program simply refused to install. I cae to the conclusion that Carmak abandoned ID in favor of his real world space ventures, and the capitalists took over and ruined his company.

      Way to lose a long-time loyal customer.

    309. Re:Multiple interpretations by drsmithy · · Score: 1

      You mean like poverty and working your ass off for what eventually works out to less than minimum wage? In Canada, the average income of artists is less than $25,000 per year. In the United States, the average income for a creative artist is $34,800 per year (http://en.artron.net/news/news.php?newid=52152&column_id=61). If a writer is lucky, around his or her third or fourth book the money s/he receives will break through to equating to the minimum wage. Somebody like Stephen King is the vast exception - most creative artists struggle to keep a roof over their heads and food on their table. So, want to tell me why those generous privileges don't include a professional-level income?

      Because maybe the vast majority of creative work doesn't deserve a professional level income ?

      There are shitloads of poor people the world over. Why should the ones who happen to sing and dance be offered any more advantages than those who happen to carry and serve ? In the United States in 2005, the median income was about $32,000. Seems "artists" aren't doing it harder than anyone else.

      That's a straw man argument. Creative artists DON'T have that right. They have the right to try to make money from their work for their lifetimes plus 50 or 70 years, depending on the country.

      Which part of your entire life don't you consider to be "in perpetuity" ? (I will admit the context of my original comment wasn't clear.)

      "Try" is the operative word. Almost none succeed.

      Wow. Just like every other poor sucker who has to go to work every day and "try" to make the most money he can from his skills.

      For that matter, the average lifespan of a book tends to be less than 10 years.

      Tragic stuff, indeed, to be only paid for 10 years for one bit of productivity. I wish I was still earning a salary for the work I did 10 years ago.

      Copyright is not a form of creative welfare. If you want to make money as a creative artist in your old age, you frequently get to keep working while everybody else has retired, or die in poverty.

      Everyone else has to prepare for retirement. That means saving up enough to live on once you retire (and support your family afterwards) while you can still work. The plumber can't keep fixing pipes once he's crippled by arthritis. The doctor can't keep performing surgery once Parkinson's makes his hands shake. The lawyer can't keep practicing once dementia has destroyed his mind. The tennis player can't keep playing once his eyesight is gone.

      Why should artists be treated differently [by society] to them ?

      Oh yes, by the way, there is something that does allow people to make money for the rest of their lives for work they've already done - it's called a pension. Most creative artists don't get those.

      No, a pension is something you get from the Government, financed by the taxes you (and everyone else) paid and/or something you get from a fund that you paid money into throughout your life. Since the former is something your hypothetical poverty-stricken artist will almost certainly be eligible for, he will receive that (just like every other poverty-stricken person). The latter, of course, requires you to have earned enough throughout your life to have been able to contribute to it, and in this, again, the artist is in exactly the same boat as everyone else.

      Perhaps you can justify inheritance law to me, then. After all, why should your children and grandchildren receive benefits after you've died for the work you've done? They didn't do that work. Or are you about to say that it's not the same thing because it's a book manuscript instead of a house?

      A book manuscript and a house are similar things. The ongoing royalties from a published book and a house, however, are very different things.

      (There is room in my philosophy to allow for works that were comple

    310. Re:Multiple interpretations by Garwulf · · Score: 1

      This is my last post in this discussion - you can get the last word in if you want, but as far as I'm concerned you're one of those people who is in their own little bubble, and no amount of information will change your opinion - no confusing you with facts, I guess.

      I think this sums up your argument to a "t":

      "I'd love if it I the job I had in my twenties was still paying my great-great-great-grandchildren a portion of my salary. But it won't be, and my argument that "artists" shouldn't be granted a more beneficial position than me just because they're artists, remains the same."

      So, because you don't have it, nobody else should. Everybody has to be at your level. But what makes your level right? Tell me, what do you produce? Do you produce anything people will care about acquiring ten years after the fact? What about twenty? Why should somebody who produces something that will generate ongoing sales for decades be forced to be at the level of somebody who doesn't?

      Try this one on for size - perhaps the very few artists who don't have to keep day jobs and put away money just like everybody else (which, by the way, is what just about everybody in the creative arts community has to do anyway) get that position because they produce something that people do care about long after their death. And if somebody can do that, well, they should be allowed to rise as far as they are able.

      Part of a free society is that people are free to do better than you are doing. If you don't like that, there are communist governments in Cuba and China that I'm sure would welcome you as a citizen, although China has been moving towards the free market for some time now.

      So, all I have left to say to you is this - if you are so offended by people profiting from their work decades after they've completed it because you don't get to, perhaps you should get off your ass, change jobs, and produce something that people will actually care about buying decades after you produce it. There are plenty of ways to do that - you can start a business, you can become a creative artist in any number of fields, you can found and spearhead an independent programming project. Where do you think Red Hat Linux came from?

      But quit whining and complaining about those who actually do produce something they can profit off of for the long term, because you don't. The only thing stopping you in this society from rising higher is yourself.

      --
      Robert B. Marks
      Author, Demonsbane in Diablo Archive
    311. Re:Multiple interpretations by Myopic · · Score: 1

      Those things are true, but I think you overestimate the amount of freedom enjoyed in the past. Especially, consider the distribution of freedom among the population.

    312. Re:Multiple interpretations by Myopic · · Score: 1

      I have no idea what you are talking about, but even if I were to grant your premise (which I don't), I would still object that you equate working a job to being a slave. What was your point?

    313. Re:Multiple interpretations by drsmithy · · Score: 1

      So, because you don't have it, nobody else should.

      No, because particular classes of people should not be blessed by the legal system with privileges others are not.

      Everybody has to be at your level.

      Most certainly everyone should be granted the same privileges by the law, except in truly exceptional circumstances. Equality is one of the foundations of a free and fair society.

      But what makes your level right? Tell me, what do you produce? Do you produce anything people will care about acquiring ten years after the fact? What about twenty? Why should somebody who produces something that will generate ongoing sales for decades be forced to be at the level of somebody who doesn't?

      So you agree that if the product of some work I did in my twenties is still being used (I know of at least one example of this being true), the company using it should still be paying me a salary ?

      Should I be sending the person who made my kitchen table an annual tithe ? After all, I'm still using it twenty years after he made it, surely (by your standards) he should still be getting paid for that work ?

      Try this one on for size - perhaps the very few artists who don't have to keep day jobs and put away money just like everybody else (which, by the way, is what just about everybody in the creative arts community has to do anyway) get that position because they produce something that people do care about long after their death. And if somebody can do that, well, they should be allowed to rise as far as they are able.

      Of course they should. I've never suggested otherwise.

      Part of a free society is that people are free to do better than you are doing. If you don't like that, there are communist governments in Cuba and China that I'm sure would welcome you as a citizen, although China has been moving towards the free market for some time now.

      Apparently you think I've got something against people who are more successful than me, when my actual problem is with people who have an unfair advantage because they're getting special treatment from the legal system.

      But quit whining and complaining about those who actually do produce something they can profit off of for the long term, because you don't. The only thing stopping you in this society from rising higher is yourself.

      This is why it's difficult to have any sort of serious discussion on the topic. People like you, who are caught up in a storm of greed, selfishness, hubris and entitlement, think your contributions to the world are so unique and valuable that you deserve special protection from the legal system.

      You have not offered a single argument justifying the privileges that come with being on the copyright gravy train, that could not be equally applied to everyone from carpenters to hairdressers.

    314. Re:Multiple interpretations by Snaller · · Score: 1

      "What's wrong with amorally trying to make money? It's a hell of a lot better than immorally making money,"

      For the purpose of that sentence amoral/immoral are interchangeable, so your linguistic flame fails.

      --
      If Google really cared they would fix Android Chrome to reflow text, instead of discriminating
    315. Re:Multiple interpretations by Omestes · · Score: 1

      Right now I've been leaning towards consoles as the ideal gaming platform, when it comes to lasting through time. I don't like this decision, since PCs have large advantages (for me at least) over consoles, like patches, user content, etc... They do, though, have a better sense of permanence.

      Computers as an entertainment medium makes me wonder about historians in the future. Inevitably there will be humanities based on gaming in the late 20th century. But I think it might prove to be one of the more fragile cultural artifacts. Absurd thought, probably.

      You can get it in my country (DK) right now, at affordable if not quite cheap, prizes right now, I'm guessing you are American (from your posting time, don't kill me if I'm wrong), and I hear US is a bit behind with that sort of thing, but no doubt it will happen there, too.

      The US will probably remain behind for a long while (you are correct, btw). We are a much larger country than all of the European nations, and thus have a lot of land where it isn't economical to invest in cell-towers/wiring/etc... That and our current mindset is dead-set against investing in the necessary infrastructure. There are huge tracks of land here people still must rely on Dial-Up, or at best Satellite for service. Add to that our crappy telecom monopolies, and... Perhaps my grandchildren will have decent, universal, access.

      Debating your agnosticism, in the proper context, will someday be enjoyable. :)

      --
      A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government. -edward abbey
    316. Re:Multiple interpretations by mdmkolbe · · Score: 1

      Look at his Wiki page for his positions on those topics. I didn't want to explicitly list them out because (1) it gets monotonous and (2) I didn't want to get into rhetorical bias. But like I said before, on all of those issues he takes a position that is fairly standard for an American-style liberal.

    317. Re:Multiple interpretations by Chris+Tucker · · Score: 1

      Buy more guns, then. That IS the Randroid answer to everything, right?

      --
      Guaranteed! This comment 100% Anthrax free!
    318. Re:Multiple interpretations by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And being a mayor of a city with 8,000 people is hardly indicative of ones ability to lead a nation.

      You do realize that she's currently the governor of an entire state, right?

    319. Re:Multiple interpretations by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'd waited years for DOOM 3. When I bought it I'd just bought a new motherboard and video card.

      It would not run on my machine, and I'd paid over a hundred bucks on the card. I'd wasted $60 on the game, I'll never buy another PC game again.

      Yep, PC gaming isn't for you. People like you should buy a Wii.

    320. Re:Multiple interpretations by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You do realize that that entire state has a population smaller than that of some smaller cities, right?

    321. Re:Multiple interpretations by Danse · · Score: 1

      For starters, consider that Sarah Palin is actually Governor of Alaska, in addition to having been a Mayor once. But people forget about that point. They'd rather focus on how little responsibility a Mayor has in comparison to VP.

      Karl Rove lambasted Tim Kaine for lack of experience despite his being governor of Virginia, a much more populous state, and formerly mayor of a much larger city. Then he turns around and tries to play up how experienced Palin is. How hypocritical is that?

      And say what you will about Alaska, but last time I checked, a governor is not only over the people in the state, but is essentially in charge of the lands of the state, and makes decisions about it too. That makes Sarah Palin in charge of more land than any other governor in the U.S.

      Actually I believe the federal government controls 60% of the land in Alaska.

      --
      It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds. - Captain Hammer
    322. Re:Multiple interpretations by EsbenMoseHansen · · Score: 1

      Again, the evidence doesn't bear it out. Look at music. Despite the claims of rampant piracy, there is an even greater diversity of niche music than ever before. Similarly with games - independent developers are thriving like they never have before, thanks to internet distribution. There is more variety in games today than there's ever been before. Your argument appears to be based on nothing but nostalgia.

      Au contraire, the evidence bears it out very clearly. Most of the veteran software houses are giving up the PC platform or at least relegating it to 2nd place. I have played quite a few games from independent software houses, and I know for a fact that they are barely breaking even --- in the best of cases, except if they either have some way to prevent piracy (online component) *or* develop for a very small budget (like flash games and the like).

      Music is neither here nor there, the price for developing music is plummeting, while the price for developing high-quality games are not.

      To follow your lead, it seems your argument is based on nothing but self-delusion and wishful thinking :p

      --
      Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by rulers as useful.
    323. Re:Multiple interpretations by EsbenMoseHansen · · Score: 1

      What should change about copyright law to avoid the copyright infringement and still allow the using of 20+millions of mullah to develop a game?

      The problem here isn't copyright law, it's economics.

      Nonsense. If piracy were not a problem, this would be quite feasible... indeed, it *is* feasible for platforms where piracy is not so widespread, like consoles.

      It is a struggle to see any reason why the genre of a [single-player, standalone, not online] game should have the slightest bearing on how easy it is to 'protect' from piracy. It's like arguing that engine immobilisers are only useful for four-door sedans, and won't work on sports cars or SUVs.

      Well, listen and you might learn something. Graphical adventures are for different reasons not very suited to consoles (lack of mouse, crappy screens, low disk capacities and more). Nor are they realistically protectable by making them an online affair (yet, anyway). Also it is somewhat of a niche genre, so it takes less to move the total game from a net if modest earning to a net loss. Clear now? Merry Christmas then.

      --
      Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by rulers as useful.
    324. Re:Multiple interpretations by calmofthestorm · · Score: 1

      I thought fair use rights were canceled in this country to prevent murderous pirates?

      --
      93rd rule of Slashdot: No matter how obvious my sarcasm is, my comment will be taken seriously by someone.
    325. Re:Multiple interpretations by mdmkolbe · · Score: 1

      I look forward to reading that article and want to tank you for the civilized discussion on this topic. You have given me food for thought, but I guess the only way to really settle the question is wait about a decade for Steamboat Willie to go into public domain and see what happens.

    326. Re:Multiple interpretations by Garwulf · · Score: 1

      Oh, you're welcome - it was my pleasure.

      One of the problems with the entire copyright debate is that there are a lot of misconceptions on a very basic level about how it works, and what it does. I'm just happy to have been able to give you some good information on it.

      And most of all, don't take my word for any of this - go to the sources yourself, get as close as you can to the primary sources, and make up your own mind. There's plenty of material out there to find...

      (I'd say watch out for Lessig, though - he's a good enough writer, but he tends to make some truly head-scratching leaps of logic - that's what's kept me from ever getting past the first chapter or two of Free Culture.)

      --
      Robert B. Marks
      Author, Demonsbane in Diablo Archive
    327. Re:Multiple interpretations by Shakrai · · Score: 1

      I find it interesting that you felt the need to tell me to go and buy guns when I also mentioned the 4th and 5th amendments as being eroded by our political process.

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    328. Re:Multiple interpretations by Chris+Tucker · · Score: 1

      I find it interesting that you are a mendacious twit.

      And that you didn't answer the question.

      And that, instead of addressing the point of my original comments, you blithely ignored the fact that it was BIG FUCKING GOVERNMENT that increased the liberty of the oppressed minority in America. First, by judicial activism, I.E., the Supreme Court, and then by the application of sheer, raw military might to enforce the integration of a high school, at gunpoint.

      Granted, you libertarian types LOATH the idea of state intervention, unless someone will make a decent profit from it. Then it's send in the strike breakers/Marines. As long as the coal gets dug and the bananas get picked, fuck the unalienable Right of Man.

      It wasn't the left that shredded the 4th and 5th Amendments, and that big old lefty head of the DNC, Howard Dean, himself promulgated the theory that whatever gun control laws there are, should be left to the states to decide. Oakland, CA has much different circumstances than Rutland, Vermont, (for example) when it comes to regulating the possession and use of firearms.

      So, buy more guns. You'll feel better, you'll help the economy and your Viagra expenses will be lessened.

      --
      Guaranteed! This comment 100% Anthrax free!
    329. Re:Multiple interpretations by Danse · · Score: 1

      I've yet to hear a good argument for why anyone should be granted such a long-term monopoly on an intellectual work, especially considering how counter-intuitive it is in this age. It's certainly not needed to provide an incentive to create the works, as most people and corporations which create the work do not project profits for more than a handful of years. Anything beyond that doesn't really factor into the decision of whether to create something or not.

      Vast amounts of work and very restrictive controls are needed to help prevent these works from being freely distributed, which leads me to believe that it may not be worth the effort and expense. I think many are coming to that conclusion, which is why we've seen DRM dropped from so many services lately. I believe we should go back to something more closely resembling the original copyright terms. Maybe 15 years. That's more than enough time to reap the profits. The government shouldn't be handing out monopolies as it does now because they are not benefiting the public, but they are certainly restricting people from building upon the ideas that have come before. Disney being the classic example of a company that made its fortune on the work of those who came before, and then proceeded to ensure that none would come after.

      --
      It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds. - Captain Hammer
    330. Re:Multiple interpretations by Garwulf · · Score: 1

      "The government shouldn't be handing out monopolies as it does now because they are not benefiting the public, but they are certainly restricting people from building upon the ideas that have come before."

      That's a gross misunderstanding of how both copyright and creativity work. You cannot copyright an idea - in fact, it is very specifically written into the Berne Convention that only specific implementations of an idea can be copyrighted. Don't take my word for that, though - look it up yourself. You'll find it laid out in Article 2, with subsection 3 containing a statement protecting the rights of others to create derivative works: http://www.wipo.int/treaties/en/ip/berne/trtdocs_wo001.html#P85_10661

      "Disney being the classic example of a company that made its fortune on the work of those who came before, and then proceeded to ensure that none would come after."

      Disney may be very protective of its trademarks, but there are plenty of other adaptations of fairy tales out there. So that doesn't actually hold true.

      --
      Robert B. Marks
      Author, Demonsbane in Diablo Archive
    331. Re:Multiple interpretations by AviLazar · · Score: 1

      Whichever is shorter, not longer. And what YOU seem to be forgetting is copyright is something we, as a society, are offering artists to help society. There is no benfit to society for them getting 70 years or more. They(mostly corporations) are breaking their part of the contract when they ask for continually longer copyright, especially the retroactive ones.

      Yea just saying "whichever is shorter, not longer" is not really a viable solution. That is the same as "give me free, even if they pay is only $1". What contract did people or corporations break when they asked for longer copyright laws? Please show me this contract. I am not forgetting anything, except that you assume copyright have no benefits to society. It helps society a lot when someone (and all their supporting employees) make a ton of money. It means that everyone from the actor(s) to the sanitation worker at the recording studio get paid and earn a living. Thusly spending money in our society. See a big benefit. Another is that the artist is able to devote their lives to this (assuming they are popular enough to get paid the big bucks). You may not like it because that means you can't get the stuff for free - but that is just tough potatoes - and a weak argument.

      --

      I mod down so you can mod up. Your welcome.
    332. Re:Multiple interpretations by Danse · · Score: 1

      That's a gross misunderstanding of how both copyright and creativity work. You cannot copyright an idea - in fact, it is very specifically written into the Berne Convention that only specific implementations of an idea can be copyrighted. Don't take my word for that, though - look it up yourself. You'll find it laid out in Article 2, with subsection 3 containing a statement protecting the rights of others to create derivative works: http://www.wipo.int/treaties/en/ip/berne/trtdocs_wo001.html#P85_10661 [wipo.int]

      Yes, and it's been upheld in courts that something as small as a few notes of music can be enough to constitute infringement. Things have gotten ridiculously out of hand.

      I still don't see anyone giving any good reason why these monopolies should be granted for such ridiculous amounts of time.

      Disney may be very protective of its trademarks, but there are plenty of other adaptations of fairy tales out there. So that doesn't actually hold true.

      And why was Disney able to create its classics? Because those fairy tales weren't copyrighted, so Disney just did what they wanted with them, with no restrictions or payment needed. That doesn't hold true for practically anything created in the last 70 years or so.

      --
      It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds. - Captain Hammer
    333. Re:Multiple interpretations by Virtual_Raider · · Score: 1
      I asked about that metamod thing and I got this reply from CmdrTaco. I still don't like what they did but thought I'd share it.

      I'll keep this brief. I dislike the new meta-moderation at /. system because I think it detracts from it's original purpose of identifying and clearing abuse in the 'normal' moderation system.

      The plus/minus signs do not convevy any information about the moderation, they seem to focus more on the post itself, and because they are a binary choice users are put in a sort of agree/disagree situation that doesn't add to the discussion and rather substracts from it.

      Here's the thing... if I ask you "Is this comment insightful" I know really very little about your opinion on the VERY related questsions ("Is this comment informative/troll/offtopic etc").

      The old system asked you to agree or disagree with a single moderation. Any particular comment can have 10 different moderations...

      The simple truth is that we don't have enough meta moderation in our system to get enough votes on every single mod in the system, so we chose to make it more broad.

      I absolutely agree that the +/- is less accurate. But if you '+' a comment, I can make an algorithmic guess on EVERY moderation done to that comment...

      I see where you're coming from, but this is a practical decision... I'd rather rate every mod in the system then just a few, and this was the best way to do it.

      --
      +Raider of the lost BBS
    334. Re:Multiple interpretations by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, it was nice of the government to enforce Brown v Board of Education, much as it did when a previous heroic Supreme Court ruled on Dred Scott v Sanford [60 U.S. (19 How.) 393 (1857)]

    335. Re:Multiple interpretations by Hordeking · · Score: 1

      Those things are true, but I think you overestimate the amount of freedom enjoyed in the past. Especially, consider the distribution of freedom among the population.

      If you're not making a distinction between economic freedom and philosophical freedom (gratis vs libre), then you're right. I was restricting it comparatively to an Ideal US (never existed, but useful here) for simplicity.

      --
      Disclaimer: The opinions and actions of the US Gov't are in no way representative of those held by this author or its ci
  2. Legal? by houghi · · Score: 5, Interesting

    What is the legality of this? RIAA tells them that they represent Metallica and I have a rar file called metalica. This would mean that the provider opens my rar file and looks into it. They should not be allowed to do so. Privacy and such, you know.

    In Belgium what happens is that a letter is send to the provider that user X with IP Y at time Z was downloading a file that they believe to contain copyrighted material. The provider then could do several things. Basicaly 1) forward the letter or 2) ignore it.

    No information could go to the local RIAA. This is called privacy. So the only thing they could do was try to sue. However the courts said that they would not follow up unless people where making money out of it.

    So copying songs and selling them: burn in hell.
    Downloading them and sharing with friends or strangers: nothing happens.

    The fact that I have 60 petabyte of songs downloaded does not mean they lost money. I stopped buying long before the internet made it possible to download. I shared music with friends on casette. Hey, that is a good casette, can you make me a copy? How did you get it?
    Well, I got copies from friends and using my dual-cassette player copied the different numbers so I had my own music, minus the crap.

    When I think since when this has been going on, I am getting old.

    --
    Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
    1. Re:Legal? by meringuoid · · Score: 4, Interesting
      I have 60 petabyte of songs downloaded

      Is there that much recorded music in the world?

      --
      Real Daleks don't climb stairs - they level the building.
    2. Re:Legal? by dword · · Score: 1

      That would be enough music to listen to for 110,000 years.
      (approximated at just over 1 mbyte/minute)

    3. Re:Legal? by retech · · Score: 1

      Someone is going to be busy over the holidays!

    4. Re:Legal? by Donkey_Hotey · · Score: 5, Funny

      I have 60 petabyte of songs downloaded

      Is there that much recorded music in the world?

      Maybe not by itself, but if you added rap and pop there might be...

      --
      (There is supposed to be a Sarcmark® here, but my $1.99 check hasn't cleared, yet...)
    5. Re:Legal? by characterZer0 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Is there any legitimate technical reason whatsoever to even assemble all of the packets for a file at any router that is not the destination? Or even to look at the packets enough to know that there is a file?

      --
      Go green: turn off your refrigerator.
    6. Re:Legal? by skerit · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Did taping only occur in Belgium? Because I'm from Belgium and I also justify my downloading habits by explaining how I used to tape songs and tv-shows and such My opinion about every kind of media: If you CAN make money out of it, that's nice. If people are sharing your work for free, that's great (and a lot of publicity)! If someone ELSE is making money out of your work, that's illegal!

    7. Re:Legal? by Ephemeriis · · Score: 1

      What is the legality of this? RIAA tells them that they represent Metallica and I have a rar file called metalica. This would mean that the provider opens my rar file and looks into it. They should not be allowed to do so. Privacy and such, you know.

      Part of the problem is this they don't even bother to do this.

      Someone associated with the RIAA will fire up a P2P app and kick off a download for 'metalica.rar' They'll log every single IP address that they're connected to, and then they'll send off a pile of court orders.

      Nobody ever checks to see what's in 'metalica.rar' Nobody bothers to ask if you paid for your music or not. Nobody checks to see if the folks downloading from you have paid for their music. Nobody asks if you intended to share that file or if it just wound up in the wrong directory. They don't even check to make sure the IP address actually belongs to you and wasn't spoofed.

      --
      "Work is the curse of the drinking classes." -Oscar Wilde
    8. Re:Legal? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It depends on the encoding. MP3@128kbps, MP3@320, FLAC or WAV? There is a difference.

      And s/he didn't say 60 petabytes of unique tracks.

    9. Re:Legal? by Midnight+Thunder · · Score: 1


      I have 60 petabyte of songs downloaded

      Is there that much recorded music in the world?

      Are we talking MP3 or uncompressed? If we are talking the latter, then it is very possible.

      --
      Jumpstart the tartan drive.
    10. Re:Legal? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't forget techno! I am sure there is at least 30 petabyes of that laying around somewhere.

    11. Re:Legal? by D+Ninja · · Score: 1

      Is there that much recorded music in the world?

      Potentially. He didn't say whether those songs were in 128kbps MP3 format, or in a raw WAV format. That would make quite a difference.

      (Still a freaken lot of data...)

    12. Re:Legal? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ... I have 60 petabyte of songs downloaded...

      I'm torn between two comments, so I'll post them both.

      1. How many Libraries of Congress is that?

      2. You must need a Beowulf cluster to hold all of those.

    13. Re:Legal? by AGMW · · Score: 1
      ... I stopped buying long before the internet made it possible to download. I shared music with friends on casette. Hey, that is a good casette, can you make me a copy? How did you get it? Well, I got copies from friends and using my dual-cassette player copied the different numbers so I had my own music, minus the crap.

      So your defence is that you always used to steal stuff in the old days, and you don't see why can't you steal stuff now?

      Just because the value put on a product by the owner is higher than the 'worth' you assign to it doesn't make it "OK" to just take it without paying! Sheeez! What's wrong with you people!

      How are artists supposed to make a living, or should their artistry always be a hobby slaved to a 9-5 day job?

      --
      Eclectic beats from Leeds, UK
      handmadehands.co.uk
    14. Re:Legal? by PainKilleR-CE · · Score: 1

      He's downloading full CD quality wav files, so they're more like 10MB/minute, or only 11,000 years.

      --
      -PainKilleR-[CE]
    15. Re:Legal? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have 60 petabyte of songs downloaded

      Is there that much recorded music in the world?

      if all musicians were as productive as merzbow i'd square that number:
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merzbow_discography

    16. Re:Legal? by gstoddart · · Score: 1

      Is there that much recorded music in the world?

      Moreover, anyone who actually has a 60 petabyte system isn't using it for ripped music. I know people with multiple terabytes at home, but sure as hell not petabytes -- that's still a monstrous data-center level of a system.

      Methinks some hyperbole is in that statement. (And, if he *does* have 60PB of storage, I want to know what he's running it on.)

      Cheers

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    17. Re:Legal? by mpe · · Score: 1

      In Belgium what happens is that a letter is send to the provider that user X with IP Y at time Z was downloading a file that they believe to contain copyrighted material. The provider then could do several things. Basicaly 1) forward the letter or 2) ignore it.

      The former costs the ISP money both in working out who they should forward it to and actually forwarding it. Whereas the latter is only going to cost the time to open the letter and do whatever they regularly do with "spam".

    18. Re:Legal? by Greg_D · · Score: 1

      Yeah, that's right, artists should be sheltered from the realities of everyday life.

      Reality check: the musicians who are good enough to make a living by just playing music, do, despite file sharing.

      The rest? They need to get a day job just like everyone else.

      Nobody is owed a living because they enjoy doing something.

    19. Re:Legal? by infinite9 · · Score: 3, Funny

      I first read your response as "crap and poop". Maybe that's an accurate description.

      --
      Disconnect your television. Do your own research. Draw your own conclusions. They're probably lying. Don't be a sheep.
    20. Re:Legal? by Toll_Free · · Score: 1

      What is the legality of this? RIAA tells them that they represent Metallica and I have a rar file called metalica. This would mean that the provider opens my rar file and looks into it. They should not be allowed to do so. Privacy and such, you know.

      In Belgium what happens is that a letter is send to the provider that user X with IP Y at time Z was downloading a file that they believe to contain copyrighted material. The provider then could do several things. Basicaly 1) forward the letter or 2) ignore it.

      No information could go to the local RIAA. This is called privacy. So the only thing they could do was try to sue. However the courts said that they would not follow up unless people where making money out of it.

      So copying songs and selling them: burn in hell.
      Downloading them and sharing with friends or strangers: nothing happens.

      The fact that I have 60 petabyte of songs downloaded does not mean they lost money. I stopped buying long before the internet made it possible to download. I shared music with friends on casette. Hey, that is a good casette, can you make me a copy? How did you get it?
      Well, I got copies from friends and using my dual-cassette player copied the different numbers so I had my own music, minus the crap.

      When I think since when this has been going on, I am getting old.

      The problem with that analogy (and I subscribe to it as well) is that in the days of dual decks, we had this thing called distortion and noise entering the audio stream (analog sucks for this). Couple this with the magnetic recording medium that was rolled onto itself, rather than being platter based (when the cassette would roll the layers of tape over itself, it would "bleed" through layer to layer, sometimes enabling you to hear music before it's spot on the tape, etc). Nakamichi went to great lengths to stop this with their Dragon, but not all of us had 20K dollars for two seperate tape decks.

      Enter the digital domain (think DAT). DAT was given a operating freq. different than CD to prevent dig to dig copies, because they where and are, indistinguishable from the originals. Back in the tape days, after listening to a tape two or three times "copied" from a friend, I'd go purchase the original if I liked it. Not so with digital copies. Why, you're not going to get anything except a "feel good" from the RIAA by purchasing, since the dig copy is just as good as their master (within limits).

      Hence the reason the fervor over the digital copies, and the reasoning they didn't try as hard with magnetic medium(s).

      Hell, I have SVHS recordings of some audio that I want to keep forever. SVHS keeps longer than DVD / CD, and the fidelity is damn near the same. Digitize it, copy it digitally to SVHS and you are good to go.

      --Toll_Free

    21. Re:Legal? by Zerth · · Score: 1

      The real "data-over-time" eye opener is the bandwidth he'd need to download it in the firstplace.

      Either he's had a 10 gigabit/second pipe stuffed continuously for the last 2 years, or somebody took the "bandwidth of a station wagon full of disks" saying past the jumbo jet level.

      Or perhaps he lives in this granny's basement and she's finished doing his laundry.

    22. Re:Legal? by halcyon1234 · · Score: 1

      You can backup the entirety of techno onto a 1.44MB floppy. Two midi files and a handful of loop instructions are dreadfully small.

    23. Re:Legal? by Kingrames · · Score: 2, Funny

      Convert that into lost money by the RIAA. Is there that much MONEY in the world?

      --
      If you can read this, I forgot to post anonymously.
    24. Re:Legal? by AviLazar · · Score: 1

      What is the legality of this? RIAA tells them that they represent Metallica and I have a rar file called metalica. This would mean that the provider opens my rar file and looks into it. They should not be allowed to do so. Privacy and such, you know.

      You gave up your privacy right when you turned on your torrent program that makes the rar file available to the public.

      --

      I mod down so you can mod up. Your welcome.
    25. Re:Legal? by nurb432 · · Score: 1

      What is the legality of this? RIAA tells them that they represent Metallica and I have a rar file called metalica. This would mean that the provider opens my rar file and looks into it. They should not be allowed to do so. Privacy and such, you know.

      Except they do have the right, the traffic is on their network and you have a contract with them.

      Also there doesn't have to be any proof anyway, your contract can be canceled at will by your ISP. they don't need a reason.

      --
      ---- Booth was a patriot ----
    26. Re:Legal? by Dan541 · · Score: 1

      That's 16,106,127,360 songs at 4MB each.

      Or 10,737,418,240 at 6MB each.

      And I thought my 97,000 songs was a big collection.

      --
      An SQL query goes to a bar, walks up to a table and asks, "Mind if I join you?"
    27. Re:Legal? by toddestan · · Score: 1

      Some would argue that Merzbow doesn't count as it is technically not music :)

    28. Re:Legal? by houghi · · Score: 1

      Someone associated with the RIAA will fire up a P2P app and kick off a download for 'metalica.rar' They'll log every single IP address that they're connected to, and then they'll send off a pile of court orders.

      In Belgium these end up at the end of the pile. So if all other crimes are solved and they have had all their holidays, then only will they begin with this.
      In reality this means these things will never get to court and they have been informed that sending much more will be looked at as contempt of court and they could get sued themselves.

      --
      Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
    29. Re:Legal? by houghi · · Score: 1

      Not only that. I know several musicians and some of them even get some money from songs they made, but barely enough to pay for the fee. OTOH all the others play covers all the time and they get payed for it, without paying anything themselves to the copyright holder.
      The RIAA are NOT there for the artists. They are there for the copyright holders, Those are the record companies, because the artists had to give up their rights to do whatever.

      --
      Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
    30. Re:Legal? by houghi · · Score: 1

      You gave up your privacy right when you turned on your torrent program that makes the rar file available to the public.

      That is not the case. I still have my rights to privacy. If somebody wants to sue me, they have to go trough court. The company can not give up my identity by themselves.

      --
      Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
    31. Re:Legal? by houghi · · Score: 1

      No, they can not cancel my contract just if they want to. Wether I would bother to fight their decision is something else. I do have more rights as an individual then the company has. The company has (generaly) more power, so it evens out with a bit more in favor of the customer.

      --
      Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
  3. Rocky Road by retech · · Score: 2, Funny

    Obligatory Take Down Notice:

    Dear sir or madame;
    You are currently infringing upon a protected named asset; "Rocky Road" ice cream. You are hereby notified to remove any and all uses of a known name, links to it and all other references.

    You may, however, re-title the article: "The RIAA's Moose Tracks Ahead" since that name is not copyrighted.

    1. Re:Rocky Road by tsa · · Score: 1
      --

      -- Cheers!

    2. Re:Rocky Road by meringuoid · · Score: 1

      The RIAA may walk a rocky road if it wishes, but such journeys typically end badly. They'll be robbed blind in Dublin and then beaten up by Scousers.

      --
      Real Daleks don't climb stairs - they level the building.
    3. Re:Rocky Road by gemada · · Score: 1

      You may, however, re-title the article: "The RIAA's Moose Tracks Ahead" since that name is not copyrighted.

      it is now, bitches. Send me money.

  4. But... by davester666 · · Score: 5, Funny

    why does the RIAA have to pay this ISP? Part of the value that the ISP provides to customers is the ability to pirate music. Therefore, the ISP should be paying for this.

    And the ISP should send the RIAA a pony.

    And a cute little puppy.

    Whups, sorry about that. I channeled the RIAA there for a second.

    --
    Sleep your way to a whiter smile...date a dentist!
    1. Re:But... by Sique · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Hey! This screams for a car analogy ;)

      1. Part of the value that the car manufacturers provide to customers is the ability to use the road. So car manufacturers should be paying for roadbuilding :)
      2. Part of the value that light bulb manufacturers provide to customers is the ability to travel at night with your car, so the light bulb manufacturers should be paying for car building.
      3. Part of the value that roadbuilding provides to the road users is the ability to get away from a crime scene very fast, so road builders should sponsor the local police.

      Any more ideas? :)

      --
      .sig: Sique *sigh*
    2. Re:But... by UnderCoverPenguin · · Score: 1

      why does the RIAA have to pay this ISP? Part of the value that the ISP provides to customers is the ability to pirate music. Therefore, the ISP should be paying for this.

      Hmm.. Looking at my contract with my ISP, running a server is not allowed. P2P is a form of a server, therefore, also not allowed.

      It also prohibits illegal activities.

      Finally, it states that termination of service due to violating the terms of the contract does not relieve the subscriber of the obligation to pay the service fees.

      Ergo, my ISP already has plenty of incentive to find excuses to disconnect subscribers: Money for service not rendered. (Same goes for the other ISPs available to me.)

      Out of curiosity, are these P2P apps UDP based? But even so, can't the ISPs block subscriber-to-subscriber IP traffic? At least between their own subscribers?

      --
      Don't try to out wierd me, three-eyes. I get stranger things than you, free with my breakfast cereal. --Zaphod Beeblebr
    3. Re:But... by dtml-try+MyNick · · Score: 1

      In that case sending, for example, pictures through MSN Messenger wouldnt be allowed to...
      If they'd go that far as a ISP I forsee good business for the first ISP that does allow servers. (Mine does btw)

      --
      Life starts at the end of your comfort zone.
    4. Re:But... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      --1. Part of the value that the car manufacturers provide to customers is the ability to use the road. So car manufacturers should be paying for roadbuilding :)

      I actually agree with this one. Nothing like a good tax incentive to get people off cars.

    5. Re:But... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's amusing. So you would call it a form of a server if the P2P app isn't allowing people to download from them? I know I do that myself, in order to keep things going smoothly, and I'm sure others do - they're called LEECHERS.
       
      The point about blocking this communication is that for this service provider, it's not on their priorities. To implement this costs time, and therefore money, and so they should be compensated for the work done. Or should police not get paid to do their job (using the analogy above - after making the road builders into the police).

    6. Re:But... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...to get people off cars

      it just snowed 10 inches here. enjoy waiting for the bus.

    7. Re:But... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hmm.. Looking at my contract with my ISP, running a server is not allowed. P2P is a form of a server, therefore, also not allowed.

      Hmm. When watching streaming video, my firewall occasionally pops up a warning dialog that states: "Firefox wants to act as a server". Does this mean I'm not allowed to use Firefox?

    8. Re:But... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Road builders do sponsor the local police in most instances, road builders are often municipalities who pay for both roads and cops.

    9. Re:But... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Where i live the police and road builders (Department of Public Works) are both managed by the municipality which is the city. Also the police benefit from roads so therefore your last statement regarding the fact that road builders should sponsor police is completely true!

    10. Re:But... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Any more ideas? :)

      Part of the value that roads provide is picking up hookers. The car manufacturers and the RIAA should buy me hookers. :-P

    11. Re:But... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hmm.. Looking at my contract with my ISP, running a server is not allowed. P2P is a form of a server, therefore, also not allowed.

      No it's not. You can either communicate as a Client/Server model, a Peer-to-Peer model, or in an Ad Hoc fashion. By Definition a peer to peer network does not have a server. The only part of a "peer2peer filesharing" system that could be considered a 'server' is the tracker, which is usually published remotely.
      But even if you consider a P2P client as a server, simply turning off upload or blocking the outbound packets with a router removes all server-like behavior.

      I had this argument with my ISP awhile back when they sent out "reminder" letters to us regarding illegal filesharing, P2P, etc. Basically I challenged them to provide a technically valid definition of what exactly constitutes a "server", which they won't do.

      The fact is that your ISP has a lot of things in their TOS that are, quite frankly, unenforceable, and maybe even not legal. They put them their for their own protection.
      If they don't want you to run a web server, for example, they will just block inbound port 80 requests. If they want to simply be legally free from what you might distribute from your server, they leave port 80 open & just tell you not to do it.

      My ISP also has a rider that says the service will not be used to "view, download, or otherwise access and material not suited for children, or which could be considered of an adult nature, pornographic, indecent, or otherwise obscene". Good luck enforcing that.

    12. Re:But... by halcyon1234 · · Score: 1

      Any more ideas? :)

      If your theory holds, Trojans owes Coors some money.

    13. Re:But... by Kingrames · · Score: 1

      Light bulb manufacturers provide light to their customers. Obtaining light from other sources is piracy of their material.

      --
      If you can read this, I forgot to post anonymously.
    14. Re:But... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      P2P is a form of a server, therefore, also not allowed.

      no it isn't GET A FUCKING CLUE before you make retarded comments.

    15. Re:But... by Dan541 · · Score: 1

      P2P is a form of a server, therefore, also not allowed.

      Wow I hate to think what your definition of a server is.

      --
      An SQL query goes to a bar, walks up to a table and asks, "Mind if I join you?"
    16. Re:But... by freedom_india · · Score: 1

      So sunlight is now illegal?
      Considering how stupid our hallowed Congress is, i would not be surprised if light bulb makers threw enough money to congressmen so that they outlaw people enjoying sunlight at day...and how illegal it is for buildings to use sunlight to "harm" its occupants...

      --
      "Doing what i can, with what i have." ~ Burt Gummer
  5. Viable business model? by tsa · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I can't believe sueing people like the RIAA does is a viable business model. The costs must outweigh the benefits by far. Even if the RIAA manages to win a case against a poor grandmother who has never heard of P2P and the like, she won't be able to pay the fine because the costs of defending herself have bankrupted her for good. I have a very hard time understanding the people who work for the RIAA and sue people for a living.

    --

    -- Cheers!

    1. Re:Viable business model? by icsx · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Well apparently RIAA is not suing anymore. Instead they try to get ISP's into their bandwagon to cut off connections if people do illegal stuff. However, why any ISP which is doing commercial business would do this for free or why would they even consider going after their paying customers in the first place? ISP is not a police and people's privacy must be respected and law followed.

    2. Re:Viable business model? by meringuoid · · Score: 5, Insightful
      I can't believe sueing people like the RIAA does is a viable business model. The costs must outweigh the benefits by far. Even if the RIAA manages to win a case against a poor grandmother who has never heard of P2P and the like, she won't be able to pay the fine because the costs of defending herself have bankrupted her for good.

      It's a terror campaign. The idea is to intimidate the public so that they're afraid to pirate. It doesn't matter if they lose money suing one victim, if a thousand others are thereby frightened away from piracy.

      --
      Real Daleks don't climb stairs - they level the building.
    3. Re:Viable business model? by gzunk · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It isn't a viable business model, it doesn't need to be, because the RIAA isn't a business. It's a business association made up of record labels, such as Sony, Warner et al - see Link, and it does the bidding of the member companies.

      http://www.riaa.com/aboutus.php?content_selector=aboutus_members

      It's funded through dues, which all the member companies pay. It doesn't need to make a profit because it's not a business.

    4. Re:Viable business model? by tsa · · Score: 5, Interesting

      All those members are commercial companies. They will eventually stop funding the RIAA because the RIAA wastes their money on futile attempts to eradicate illegal copying.

      --

      -- Cheers!

    5. Re:Viable business model? by Drakkenmensch · · Score: 1

      This isn't about getting the money back, of course, it's abou tstriking fear into the hearts of small people. Do maffia thugs care about the lost money when they break someone's legs, or sink his feet into cement and dump him in the river? Of course not, it's all about sending a message to others that this could be YOU next time.

    6. Re:Viable business model? by Anonymous+Cowpat · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Except that the lawsuits are launched by the individual labels anyway - the RIAA itself doesn't actually sue anyone, it's just there to take the bad PR while the labels keep screwing people.

      --
      FGD 135
    7. Re:Viable business model? by Ephemeriis · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I can't believe sueing people like the RIAA does is a viable business model. The costs must outweigh the benefits by far. Even if the RIAA manages to win a case against a poor grandmother who has never heard of P2P and the like, she won't be able to pay the fine because the costs of defending herself have bankrupted her for good. I have a very hard time understanding the people who work for the RIAA and sue people for a living.

      It isn't. Suing people is not the RIAA's business model.

      They're used to making money by being the gatekeepers of music. Traditionally, if you wanted to be a musician, it was expensive to get your music heard. You had to get it recorded onto a record/tape/CD... Get it packaged and distributed to retailers... Get it played on the radio... Get tours booked... This is what the RIAA did. They discovered people, provided the means for them to distribute their music, and profited from the whole thing.

      These days it is easy to distribute music. Anyone with a microphone and a MySpace page can make their music available to anyone and everyone who wants to hear it. You can easily collect payments directly through something like PayPal. You can even use Cafe Press to turn out promotional materials yourself. The RIAA, in short, is no longer needed.

      These lawsuits aren't intended to make money, they're intended to scare people. The RIAA wants to convince people that on-line distribution in general is bad. They want people to be terrified of downloading anything, regardless of where it comes from. Then they can go back to selling CD's and being the gatekeepers that they used to be.

      --
      "Work is the curse of the drinking classes." -Oscar Wilde
    8. Re:Viable business model? by theaveng · · Score: 4, Insightful

      >>>It's a terror campaign

      And what do we do with terrorists? Shoot 'em.

      --
      FOX NEWS.com should be BANNED from television and internet. Have the Congress take it over and give us Truespeak.
    9. Re:Viable business model? by D+Ninja · · Score: 1

      I can't believe sueing (sic) people like the RIAA does is a viable business model.

      Suing people has NEVER been the RIAA's business model. Suing is what the RIAA is/was doing to protect their old, antiquated business model.

      Make sure you distinguish the two.

    10. Re:Viable business model? by PainKilleR-CE · · Score: 1

      No, you throw them in jail in a foreign country and forget about them.

      --
      -PainKilleR-[CE]
    11. Re:Viable business model? by Pichu0102 · · Score: 1

      >>>It's a terror campaign

      And what do we do with terrorists? Shoot 'em.

      No, if they're American based, we give them bailouts.

    12. Re:Viable business model? by secretcurse · · Score: 2, Informative

      You're confusing the RIAA with the record labels it represents. The RIAA does absolutely nothing for or with artists. The RIAA is an industry trade group that represents the music labels and is uninvolved with artists. Its business model is to collect money from the labels it represents and to sue people. You're absolutely right about the outdated business model of labels and the way the digital age has revolutionized recording and distribution.

      --
      I'm using all of my mod points to mod ancient memes down. Please join me.
    13. Re:Viable business model? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      From what I've seen, you have a panic attack of epic proportions, kill 100,000 civilians in collatoral damage and then pretend your security is better in airports. I would not advise doing the same thing in this situation.

    14. Re:Viable business model? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "These lawsuits aren't intended to make money, they're intended to scare people. The RIAA wants to convince people that on-line distribution in general is bad. They want people to be terrified of downloading anything, regardless of where it comes from. Then they can go back to selling CD's and being the gatekeepers that they used to be."

      Except they have not had any problems with online music distrobution services (i.e. iTunes) as long as it pays. Instead, they devote almost all of their efforts into lucrative (look at $ amounts) lawsuits directed against the vulnerable.

      I mean, you can say what you want about the RIAA's role, but simple context and their lawsuits show otherwise.

    15. Re:Viable business model? by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      Anyone with a microphone and a MySpace page can make their music available to anyone and everyone who wants to hear it.

      You say that as though it's a good thing.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    16. Re:Viable business model? by Ephemeriis · · Score: 1

      You're confusing the RIAA with the record labels it represents.

      No I'm not, I'm just too lazy to actually look up who's being represented by the RIAA and list them off individually.

      --
      "Work is the curse of the drinking classes." -Oscar Wilde
    17. Re:Viable business model? by Ephemeriis · · Score: 1

      Anyone with a microphone and a MySpace page can make their music available to anyone and everyone who wants to hear it.

      You say that as though it's a good thing.

      It is.

      The key phrase, and one that's also giving the RIAA labels fits, is anyone and everyone who wants to hear it .

      The Internet not only makes it very easy to get your music out to folks, but it also makes it very easy to pick and choose exactly what you want to hear. The RIAA labels want to cram 10 songs onto a CD and charge you $20+ for the whole thing when all you really want is a single song for $2.

      --
      "Work is the curse of the drinking classes." -Oscar Wilde
    18. Re:Viable business model? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's a terror campaign.

      I misread that as "It's terror capitalism."

      Seems like a great term for it. The main drawback would be that there are too many other business and/or political practices these days for which it would also be a good label.

    19. Re:Viable business model? by AviLazar · · Score: 1

      They want people to be terrified of downloading anything, regardless of where it comes from. Then they can go back to selling CD's and being the gatekeepers that they used to be.

      No, they are telling you do not download/upload material that you are not given permission to download/upload. Otherwise they would be sueing groups like Applie iTunes. If you want to d/l and/or u/l music free of prosectuion get the copyright holders permission

      Spread the truth, not propaganda.

      --

      I mod down so you can mod up. Your welcome.
    20. Re:Viable business model? by ChrisA90278 · · Score: 1

      Yes exactly. Like one African military person defended shooting into a crowd as a means of ending a political protest. He said "It's OK. We don't have to kill them all, just a few and then they all run away."

      So just kill a few. It might work.

    21. Re:Viable business model? by nurb432 · · Score: 1

      So far it seems to be working for them....

      --
      ---- Booth was a patriot ----
    22. Re:Viable business model? by b4dc0d3r · · Score: 1

      I can't believe sueing people like the RIAA does is a viable business model. The costs must outweigh the benefits by far. Even if the RIAA manages to win a case against a poor grandmother who has never heard of P2P and the like, she won't be able to pay the fine because the costs of defending herself have bankrupted her for good. I have a very hard time understanding the people who work for the RIAA and sue people for a living.

      It's not a business model. The RIAA is simply an organization put together by the behemoths of the recording industry so they can legally collude without triggering antitrust laws. RIAA does not make money in the sense of selling a product or service. It is a service organization that provides certain actions on behalf of its member groups.

      Think about it more like a Union. You pay dues and it gets things done, it's not a money maker by itself. And the fees the RIAA obtains for winning infringement cases or people settling, well that money just goes back into legal tactics and hiring Media Sentry - it doesn't flow back to the companies themselves, and certainly not to the artists they represent. The RIAA is looking out for their own copyright, since the artists typically sign over copyright to the company as a "work for hire" in exchange for whatever percent of album sales minus fees etc.

      If you were talking about how the member companies make money ("The (members of the) RIAA"), they contribute fees to the RIAA hoping that RIAA lawsuits will have an effect on file sharing. Obviously this has not worked out well, and I would expect that the global economy slowdown is causing members to rethink what they are getting for their fees and reducing contributions to RIAA.

    23. Re:Viable business model? by Lost+Race · · Score: 1

      The idea is to intimidate the public so that they're afraid to pirate.

      The idea is to intimidate the public so that we're afraid to share. That's what really scares them. They need to get a piece of every transaction.

    24. Re:Viable business model? by Dan541 · · Score: 1

      Like parking inspectors they are the lowest of the low.

      --
      An SQL query goes to a bar, walks up to a table and asks, "Mind if I join you?"
    25. Re:Viable business model? by Dan541 · · Score: 1

      Their customer should also sue them for loss of business, you can't just cut someone off the Internet and expect everything to be ok.

      --
      An SQL query goes to a bar, walks up to a table and asks, "Mind if I join you?"
    26. Re:Viable business model? by MrEricSir · · Score: 0

      The RIAA is not a label, they don't deal with artists directly.

      They used to be involved in creating standards for record players and tape decks, but that is largely controlled by the industry now.

      These days, the RIAA basically certify unlistenable records (with Gold and Platinum labels) when they're not suing 13 year old girls.

      RIAA is also known as NAMBLA.

      --
      There's no -1 for "I don't get it."
  6. Good for Bayou Internet and Communications by pwnies · · Score: 3, Insightful

    This small ISP is a perfect example of why the RIAA's new scheme for free money music protection simply won't work. Content filtering, detection and litigation on the ISP's part costs money and takes time. ISP's aren't NPO's, they don't do charity work.

  7. Extortion companies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The fact that our governments endorse and even found extortion companies tells a lot about the roguishness of these governments. It is time to pass the ball back and extort and rat out these politicians.

  8. Forget sueing grandma . . . by PolygamousRanchKid+ · · Score: 4, Insightful

    . . . it looks to me like they are ramping up to sue ISPs. They are probably lobbying right now to get laws requiring ISP enforcement.

    There is more money to squeeze out of them, compared to grandma.

    Viable business model? More like a dieing business model. I would prefer to see a music industry in the future, that is comprised of artists and consumers, where the artists are payed fair prices for their work.

    And no big record labels.

    --
    Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
    1. Re:Forget sueing grandma . . . by retech · · Score: 1

      You nailed it. They'll be suing every ISP they can. '09 the year of the ratbastard!

    2. Re:Forget sueing grandma . . . by Thanshin · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Every year is the year of the ratbastard!

    3. Re:Forget sueing grandma . . . by tsa · · Score: 2, Funny

      Nonono, every year is the year of Linux on the desktop.

      --

      -- Cheers!

    4. Re:Forget sueing grandma . . . by BTWR · · Score: 1

      I would prefer to see a music industry in the future, that is comprised of artists and consumers, where the artists are payed fair prices for their work. And no big record labels.

      There's nothing wrong with a big record label. Apple is a sort of a big record label, and their prices, in my opinion, are very fair. I have problems with their 5-activation-limit, but that's a minor problem. It's just that the Sony/BMG people are BAD big record labels.

      Not all big companies and corporations are evil, despite what your professor tells you. The CEO/Founder of Costco, for example, only makes 10x more than the lowest employee in his company, as opposed to 600x for GE or something. Hense, he makes a very comfortable (yet very reasonable) $350,000 a year to run a major corporation with tens of thousands of employees.

  9. Makes some sense by Jay+Tarbox · · Score: 3, Informative

    The equipment and software to do filtering properly (up to layer seven) can cost a lot of money. Most ISP's don't already have this stuff unlike corp or edu environments which may already have this gear to protect their internal networks.

  10. They wont win by johnsie · · Score: 5, Informative

    This whole story bores the crap out of me... It's been going on pretty much since the mp3 was invented. I remember it being an issue back when the original mp3.com was founded in the 90's. The RIAA cant ever stop people recording or distributing sound. Maybe they have some influence in the US, but there are billions of people on the web who don't live in the US and will continue to copy and share music/videos. I've heard that there are chinese p2p programs like ppstream that allow you to watch hundresds of recent movies on demand and there's nothing the Americans can do about it.

    1. Re:They wont win by ferd_farkle · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "It's been going on pretty much since the mp3 was invented."

      In fact, it (the grubby behaviour of Music Publishing) has been going on since the invention of the player piano.

    2. Re:They wont win by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In fact, it (the grubby behaviour of Music Publishing) has been going on since the invention of sheet music.

    3. Re:They wont win by pipatron · · Score: 2, Informative

      It started a long way before any computer was invented. I guess the first one was the copying of musical scores. Then there was automatically playing pianos that would kill the pianist industry... then there was (in random order) radio, FM radio (this was a separate threat because the quality was better and stuff), record players was a threat to the performing artists, tapes, cassettes, recordable CDs, etc etc.

      Just face it, they will use every excuse imaginable to maintain the status quo. The arguments will be the same, they will pay a big amount of money to the politicians, and no matter what laws are in place, people will still keep making music.

      --
      c++; /* this makes c bigger but returns the old value */
    4. Re:They wont win by easyTree · · Score: 1

      I've heard that there are chinese p2p programs like ppstream that allow you to watch hundresds of recent movies on demand and there's nothing the Americans can do about it.

      Link? :)

    5. Re:They wont win by Inda · · Score: 1

      I've not tried ppsteam but have a couple of other Chinese P2P streaming apps. Quality is not so great to be honest. Maybe old YouTube quality.

      P2P Flash applications, with connections to IRC chat rooms, are the way forward. But some of these are shut down quite quickly when they're showing PPV sport.

      --
      This post contains benzene, nitrosamines, formaldehyde and hydrogen cyanide.
    6. Re:They wont win by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ppstream movies? i feel dirty

    7. Re:They wont win by Dan541 · · Score: 1

      Unless they can poison the p2p stream with information on thiamine square, that would get the Chinese government to act pretty quickly.

      --
      An SQL query goes to a bar, walks up to a table and asks, "Mind if I join you?"
  11. RIAA doesn't need every ISP to join by brit74 · · Score: 1, Troll

    Seems to me that the RIAA doesn't need every ISP to join it in this fight anyway. As long as the RIAA can get some of the big ISPs involved, they might be able to get people to cut-down their downloading.

    Anyway, I don't really understand what slashdoters want the RIAA to do exactly (well, other than curl up and die). It seems to me that the recording industry has hundreds of millions of dollars at stake. I think it's fairly obvious that a group watching it's life-blood sucked away by illegal downloading is going to get over-zealous in this fight. It seems like a very "damned if you do, damned if you don't" kind of a situation for them.

    1. Re:RIAA doesn't need every ISP to join by Mathinker · · Score: 1

      > watching it's life-blood sucked away by .....

      You finished that wrong, you meant "an out-of-date business model".

      > It seems like a very "damned if you do, damned if you don't" kind of a situation for them.

      Yeah, people who have been told they have a terminal illness can be such downers, eh?

    2. Re:RIAA doesn't need every ISP to join by Gorshkov · · Score: 1

      I think it's fairly obvious that a group watching it's life-blood sucked away by illegal downloading is going to get over-zealous in this fight.

      And that's the crux of the issue there - it has not been established, nor has it come even CLOSE to being established, that downloading is the cause of their problems - and you can make the case that the illegal downloading actually INCREASES their sales.

      I have a huge music collection - 90% CD/DVD/vinyl, 10% downloads. One of the things I have is the top 100 songs for every year from 1940 to 2007 - including all the lyrics. It took me years to collect all that.

      It's really interesting to hear the changing styles as the years and decades go by. But would I have paid to get the rap crap that started to show up big time since about 1998 or so? No freaking way - the RIAA cannot claim lost sales there, or for any country songs that are included - because I hate both.

      On the other hand, my teenage daughter has since gone out and purchased Aqualung, and a bunch of Beatles albums, because she liked what she heard in my collection. Another of her friends is now a major Glenn Miller fan, and has also bought CDs. Others of her friends, and mine, have also purchased CDs and DVDs based on some of my downloads.

      I'm a major blues fan. There are an obscene number of local or regional bands out there that are every bit as good, or better, than the major stars - and the ONLY way I could have possibly heard of Larry McCray from Michigan is by downloading his stuff on spec, and giving it a listen. (NEW SALE). Playing it for my friend in Ohio (NEW SALE). Playing Papa Chubby from NYC for friends in the southern USA (NEW SALES). Running into Aussies in music chat rooms and playing the Bondi Cigars for them (NEW SALES).

      Hell - I should be getting a bloody commission.

    3. Re:RIAA doesn't need every ISP to join by Bert64 · · Score: 1

      Modern technology has rendered their business model obsolete, and they are trying to hold on to it by force instead of adapting to the new way.

      When they were founded distribution and advertising of media cost a lot of money, so they actually provided a semi useful service.. These days distribution and some level of advertising can be done for free, so the value they provide is now considerably less and yet they insist on charging more and placing more restrictions.

      Technology moves on and makes things obsolete or relegates them to niches, look at radio, horses, dialup internet and bbs services, floppy disks...

      Would you like a company that makes floppy disks and drives trying to force you not to use usb storage devices and cd/dvd media, forcing you to use floppies instead and then further crippling floppies by making them only work on the drive that formatted them?

      --
      http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
    4. Re:RIAA doesn't need every ISP to join by Ephemeriis · · Score: 1

      Anyway, I don't really understand what slashdoters want the RIAA to do exactly (well, other than curl up and die).

      I can't really speak for anyone else... But, personally, that's exactly what I want them to do.

      These days the RIAA have no purpose. Once upon a time they were very necessary... It was expensive to get your music recorded, get it packaged, get it distributed, get on the radio, get tours booked... That was the purpose that the RIAA served. You made your music, they packaged and sold it, you both made money.

      These days that isn't necessary. People can record their own music on just about any computer. They can get a cheap hosting account with GoDaddy, or throw together a page on MySpace, or toss a video up on YouTube. You can sell things on-line and collect payment with PayPal. You can burn your own CDs.

      All the RIAA does these days is get between me and the artists that I want to listen to, and then demand a cut of the profits.

      Sure, it's possible for these companies to dramatically restructure and remain relevant... Sony could have come up with a great "official" music portal site along the lines of MySpace or Facebook. BMG could have come up with a great on-line store like iTunes. They could've embraced digital distribution...but they didn't.

      --
      "Work is the curse of the drinking classes." -Oscar Wilde
    5. Re:RIAA doesn't need every ISP to join by Gorphrim · · Score: 1

      But would I have paid to get the rap crap that started to show up big time since about 1998 or so? No freaking way - the RIAA cannot claim lost sales there, or for any country songs that are included - because I hate both.

      Uh, so if you hate the stuff you steal*, then it's not illegal? Maybe I should go steal a car that I hate...

      * Yes, I know some will argue to the ends of time that it isn't stealing, it's "just" copyright infringement.

      --

      Queens of the Stone Age - they rule
    6. Re:RIAA doesn't need every ISP to join by justthinkit · · Score: 1

      It's really interesting to hear the changing styles as the years and decades go by. But would I have paid to get the rap crap that started to show up big time since about 1998 or so? No freaking way - the RIAA cannot claim lost sales there, or for any country songs that are included - because I hate both.

      My musical tastes go back to the days of High Fidelity mono as well. My take on rap is that it is not a musical genre but an attitude. And prior to the summer of 2008 I would have agreed with you about country music being a conflict in terms.

      Then I had to work with a crew that listened to country and, surprise, surprise, there were/are some tunes there that I actually like. Examples: The Lost Trailers - Holler Back, Rascal Flatts - Bob That Head, Alan Jackson - Good Time, Kid Rock - All Summer Long and several from Brad Paisley.

      I'm not giving country an all-access pass, but in 2008 the most well-produced, and lyrically audible, new music I heard was on country stations. It doesn't mean I'm tuning out Mark and Brian, but it shows that we need to keep an open mind. I hope you aren't missing out, Gorschkov.

      --
      I come here for the love
    7. Re:RIAA doesn't need every ISP to join by bravo369 · · Score: 1

      what we want RIAA to do is change their business model. it's not working. it's evident to everyone except the RIAA. We also kinda ask for real proof of the charges rather than just an IP. Also stop suing for exorbitant fees. share 10 songs and have to pay $220,000? it doesn't add up. I read an article that showed fines for file sharing dished out so far are over 10x as large as fines for REAL crimes.

    8. Re:RIAA doesn't need every ISP to join by pipatron · · Score: 1

      It seems like a very "damned if you do, damned if you don't" kind of a situation for them.

      Correct. It's an industry that no one wants anymore, and they are not needed. It's an industry that acts as a filter and gatekeeper to the music we want, and an industry that has locked most artists up with lies and bad contracts, something they can easily do because there are so many bands that want to become rock stars, only a few can become one.

      --
      c++; /* this makes c bigger but returns the old value */
    9. Re:RIAA doesn't need every ISP to join by amoeba1911 · · Score: 1

      You have to remember it's illegal only because of Disney and Sonny Bono. They lobbied for the laws because they had vested interest of hundreds of billions of dollars. Those hundreds of billions of dollars went into creating an industry of bureaucratic gobbledygook whose only job is to be a middle man supposedly to make it easier for the artists to distribute their creations. In the age of Internet the middle man is a hindrance, not a facilitator. The artist no longer needs a publisher to distribute content to the masses. The middle man's job is obsolete, but this is his career, and he doesn't know how to do anything else. Being middle man is what puts bread on his dinner table, it's what puts gifts under his Christmas tree, it's what puts a 25 million dollar yacht in his marina. So of course he is going to fight tooth and nail for his job, even though nobody needs him and nobody wants him. In the past, the music labels were wealthy dealers. Over the years they have degraded to street thugs trying to earn customers by scaring them into submission. Soon they will degrade into those hobos that try to earn money by cleaning your windshield using bunched up soggy newspapers at traffic lights. Nobody needs them, nobody wants them. Don't touch my car you hobo!

    10. Re:RIAA doesn't need every ISP to join by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Anyway, I don't really understand what slashdoters want the RIAA to do exactly (well, other than curl up and die). It seems to me that the recording industry has hundreds of millions of dollars at stake. I think it's fairly obvious that a group watching it's life-blood sucked away by illegal downloading is going to get over-zealous in this fight. It seems like a very "damned if you do, damned if you don't" kind of a situation for them.

      It's not the "piracy" that is killing the old business model, sure that is costing them non-trivial amounts of money but it is certainly survivable. What is undermining their previous revenue stream is the new technology. Digital content makes it far easier for any music act to be recorded and distributed. Additionally, the web allows "word-of-mouth" and other free or low-cost advertising. Finally, with more alternatives available people don't have to depend on what the corporate gatekeepers think will be profitable act. The net result (pun intended) is that singers and musicians don't have to sign their lives away, or at least a large chunk of their sales, to sell to large amounts of people.

      If the traditional music companies want to be relevent in the coming decades they should to do two things; add value for both content creators and customers (which they can do, if they bother to put their minds to it), and reduce their share of the transaction (this might require them cutting their executive salaries and perks, but so be it). Distorting the law and sueing or ISPs does neither of these things, and in the long-run it won't help them stay profitable.

    11. Re:RIAA doesn't need every ISP to join by cdrguru · · Score: 1

      Sure, it's possible for these companies to dramatically restructure and remain relevant... Sony could have come up with a great "official" music portal site along the lines of MySpace or Facebook. BMG could have come up with a great on-line store like iTunes. They could've embraced digital distribution...but they didn't.

      Sorry, but there is no possible "business" that can be conducted along the lines of "give it to me for nothing or I'll take it." That is where music is today. iTunes exists to load up iPods for stupid people - nobody in their right mind is going to spend the $20,000-$40,000 it would take buying songs at iTunes to fill up an iPod. Not saying that there aren't a lot of people in their right mind, but that is besides the point.

      If you buy an iPod and have never, ever heard of "the Internet" and never opened a browser then you can still use iTunes and get music for your shiny new iPod. Later, when a friend comes by and says "What? You are paying for all this stuff? Here, let me show you how." the sales end but Apple still has a happy iPod customer. The whole point with the iPod is the hardware - iTunes is just a necessary evil, part of a marketing strategy. The iTunes store can run at a loss as far as Apple is concerned because it is really all about selling iPods.

      I don't see a future where many bands put out music for everyone to download for free just for the exposure. What the heck do I care about a band in New Jersey if I am in LA? Sure, I might download their stuff but they aren't getting me to buy drinks in the bar they play at.

      By the way, the other thing that dies is FM radio. When there is no music promotion, there is no FM radio as we know it today.

    12. Re:RIAA doesn't need every ISP to join by Ephemeriis · · Score: 1

      Sorry, but there is no possible "business" that can be conducted along the lines of "give it to me for nothing or I'll take it." That is where music is today.

      That's simply not true. I'm more than willing to pay for my music - I'm just not giving money to the RIAA.

      I discovered Jonathan Coulton after someone posted a link to a video on YouTube of his Re:Your Brains song. I purchased all of his music legally on his website.

      I also happily purchased a recent NIN album on-line.

      It's all a matter of value. People need to feel that they're getting their money's worth.

      I don't see a future where many bands put out music for everyone to download for free just for the exposure. What the heck do I care about a band in New Jersey if I am in LA? Sure, I might download their stuff but they aren't getting me to buy drinks in the bar they play at.

      No... But maybe you're getting them some ad revenue from their website. Or maybe their music is good enough that you decide to buy a t-shirt or hat or something. Or maybe they've got an album with some nice box art and extras that you decide to buy. Or, if they get enough exposure, maybe you'll buy a ticket to go see them live.

      By the way, the other thing that dies is FM radio. When there is no music promotion, there is no FM radio as we know it today.

      I doubt it. There's still plenty of people watching broadcast TV despite the availability of cable TV and the ability to download shows on-line. Local FM radio offers local flavor and personality that you aren't likely to get from a pile of MP3s. And it can be a great way to showcase local talent.

      And even if FM radio fades there's always IP radio...unless the RIAA manages to silence it. All my local radio stations are available on-line... And then they're not only getting revenue from the ads they sell on the air, but the ads on their website as well. And I've been a happy user of last.fm for a while now.

      --
      "Work is the curse of the drinking classes." -Oscar Wilde
    13. Re:RIAA doesn't need every ISP to join by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Stop it. Stop it right fuckin' now. It's illegal only because some very recent laws made it that way. As far as I'm concerned, I'm no more of a criminal than if I watched a movie at someone else's house during a party.

      We need to nip this shit in the bud. No, I don't download games or music anymore. I grew up, and obtained the means to buy it / see it in the theater. On the other hand, there's nothing WORTH doing that with anymore.

      If I'm going to pay for something, I'm going to pay for it. If I'm concerned about quality, I like to try before I buy. In some cases, I'd love to retroactively send money, on my own accord, to those that I've downloaded their content. At a fair price of course.

      The fact of the matter is, this is a bunch of dinosaurs and assholes wanting to control things for far longer, and much more virus like, than anybody would reasonably care for.

      Little Timmy downloading the latest Metallica (god forbid; their shit sucks), has done NOTHING to the bottom line, as there's a good chance he wouldn't buy it anyways. But, what if it wants to? There's a chance that this download will seed him with a drive to buy their albums. As in, brick and mortar or online download through some means that doesn't rub someone the wrong way. (note, I didn't say legal. Such a stupid word to be thrown around when we're talking about copying something like a book.)

      We're not talking about theft at all. Not even close. Criminal anything should stay out of this mess. This whole thing is so fucking batshit crazy.

    14. Re:RIAA doesn't need every ISP to join by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, we want them to curl up and die. Quickly.

    15. Re:RIAA doesn't need every ISP to join by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hell - I should be getting a bloody commission.

      The hell you say. According to industry statistics, your little "Stunt" of letting other people listen to "stolen" music has cost the industry well over 1/4 million dollars.

      (new sales you say? move along people, nothing to see here...)

    16. Re:RIAA doesn't need every ISP to join by Gorshkov · · Score: 1

      Uh, so if you hate the stuff you steal*, then it's not illegal? Maybe I should go steal a car that I hate...

      * Yes, I know some will argue to the ends of time that it isn't stealing, it's "just" copyright infringement.

      first - no, it's not stealing - but it is illegal. At no point did I say it WAS legal.

      What I did say, was this - if anything, I think they should be *encouraging* people to pass their "stuff" around - because I think the net effect is MORE sales for them, not less. And that benefits everybody (the artists the least, unfortunatly).

    17. Re:RIAA doesn't need every ISP to join by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Modern technology has rendered their business model obsolete

      Yeah, if you define obsolescence as "losing money because people are breaking the law".

    18. Re:RIAA doesn't need every ISP to join by plasmacutter · · Score: 1

      Sorry, but there is no possible "business" that can be conducted along the lines of "give it to me for nothing or I'll take it."

      Oh really?

      Isn't that what google does? I mean they provide FREE (as in beer) search, email, and video hosting, among other things. It's free to the end user, and they leverage that user base to charge companies for advertising.

      Hmm.. which other company controls artists with huge listener bases again..

      --
      VLC FOR MAC IS DYING! IF YOU DEVELOP, PLEASE SAVE IT!!
  12. Outsourcing.. by NfoCipher · · Score: 2, Interesting

    It could be the RIAA is getting ready to sue the providers who will in turn sue its customers to recover costs. Essentially outsourcing the individual lawsuits and focusing on those companies who might just have the cash to pay up when they lose.

    --
    I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of how awesome I am.
  13. Out of curiosity... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If the RIAA (or whomever) gives a report of illegal activity to an ISP but cannot prove it -- or better yet, it's demonstrably false -- could they be opening themselves up to a defamation lawsuit?

    1. Re:Out of curiosity... by plasmacutter · · Score: 1

      If the RIAA (or whomever) gives a report of illegal activity to an ISP but cannot prove it -- or better yet, it's demonstrably false -- could they be opening themselves up to a defamation lawsuit?

      Actually, the offense is more egregious. Stalking/harassment laws come into play and it's conceivable that proving they did harm in this way could grant you a restraining order against them.

      --
      VLC FOR MAC IS DYING! IF YOU DEVELOP, PLEASE SAVE IT!!
  14. Not perfect, but by Dachannien · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The RIAA's new strategy isn't perfect, but it's a helluva lot better than trying to sue their customers into lifelong financial ruin.

    When it comes right down to it, you're not supposed to share their music, and the content industry is well within their rights to tell you to stop if they see you doing it. And if ISPs agree to block you for repeat offenses, then you're pretty much out of luck if you don't heed those warnings.

    There are two things still shady about this plan, though, and both have to do with reducing the RIAA's liability. One has to do with MediaSentry not being licensed as a private investigator. It's possible that the new plan will prevent them from having to get a license in each state where they operate or investigate. Most likely, MediaSentry will never get taken to task for their alleged illegal actions in most states, even though their activities won't change.

    And two, the RIAA lawsuits have had a lot of missed targets, each carrying the possibility of backfiring in a big way. The RIAA reduces this liability once they're sending nastygrams to ISPs instead. Under the new plan, they can pretty much send letters complaining about Intartubes users at random, and they never have to worry about countersuits or heinously large legal expenses. Of course, this also means that there's little avenue for protest - if your ISP cuts you off, how are you going to convince them of your innocence (aside from paying a jacked-up reconnection fee, of course)?

    1. Re:Not perfect, but by poetmatt · · Score: 1

      If ISP's agree to block you, they're pretty much going to get sued. Common carrier status is a big part of that.

      Not to mention ISP's are not going to do the work of someone just complaining, they're just going to throw the letters out. They have no obligation to even glance at it. All those lovely little parts of common carrier yet again.

    2. Re:Not perfect, but by Dorkmaster+Flek · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Not to be overly optimistic, but I would guess that if/when they put this plan into action and start disconnecting innocent people, the ISPs will be the ones to start getting taken to court. I have a sneaking suspicion that if (hopefully before) that happens, ISPs will be very reluctant to go along with their plans.

      --
      I like to think of online DRM as something akin to a college -- you pay for lessons until you learn something.
    3. Re:Not perfect, but by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      One has to do with MediaSentry not being licensed as a private investigator. It's possible that the new plan will prevent them from having to get a license in each state where they operate or investigate.

      I don't know - they're still going to need someone to monitor torrents and harvest IP addresses, and if push comes to shove, they'll need to tell a court how they got that information.

    4. Re:Not perfect, but by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When it comes right down to it, you're not supposed to share their music

      According to whom? The law???? The law is supposed to reflect the will of the people (in a democratic society). It seems pretty obvious to me that the people want to share. Tough cookies for those few who purchase the laws in our broken system.

    5. Re:Not perfect, but by Pichu0102 · · Score: 1

      The RIAA's new strategy isn't perfect, but it's a helluva lot better than trying to sue their customers into lifelong financial ruin.

      If they put new technology in place that allows them to filter and send warning letters to the people behind filesharing, what makes you think they won't double dip and both block them from the internet AND sue them into ruin only escapable by death?

    6. Re:Not perfect, but by BitZtream · · Score: 1

      Except, as stated time and time again, they aren't common carriers and never have been. BellSouth teleco may be, BellSouthISP, not so much.

      --
      Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
    7. Re:Not perfect, but by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And I expect that if the ISPs start to get taken to court, they're going to start joining the RIAA to the suits, as co-defendents. So, the RIAA won't get to escape court, I don't think.

    8. Re:Not perfect, but by shentino · · Score: 1

      There could be grounds to sue for libel if the RIAA recklessly makes a false accusation.

    9. Re:Not perfect, but by Dachannien · · Score: 1

      The law is supposed to reflect the will of the people (in a democratic society).

      It my surprise you to learn that we live in a republic, not a democracy.

  15. They don't care, so why should their customers? by Aerynvala · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Honestly, the only thing that got me buying music again (after about 10 years of not buying more than a single mp3 here and there) was not only finding music that I really, really liked but also artists who I respected. When the music isn't disposable, in terms of quality and my investment in the artists, I found myself wanting to pay for it. And in some rare cases, pay for it more than once: ie a physical as well as digital copy. The only reason I would download an album via torrent/download site now is if I couldn't preview the whole thing on the artist's website. The 30 second previews on iTunes/Amazon just is not sufficient to make a buying decision. Giving me the ability to preview an album, more than once, in a way that is not too difficult (no installing anything more than say flash in my browser) for me to use and I'm more prone to give the music a chance, care about the music and (if it appeals to me) buy it.

    The artists/bands I'm most willing to spend my spare money on are the ones that are able to interact with fans on a somewhat personal level: twitter, blogs, youtube videos, etc. I get to see them as real people and it increases my estimation of the value of their music. I spend money to go to their concerts, buy their merchandise and physical cds.

    But the industry seems to be designed to work on quantity not quality. Corporate funded 'artists' like the Jonas Brothers, Miley Cyrus are part of a huge hype machine that is about being 'cool' rather than creating music that really makes an impression or impacts people emotionally. It's about getting as much crap sold to as many people as possible, not putting out the best you can put out there. And so, naturally, people will treat it like the disposable crap that it is. This week my niece OMGLOVES! the Jonas Brothers, next week it'll be some other corporate construct. And she'll never remember any of it past the following year.

    --
    http://transformativeworks.org/
    1. Re:They don't care, so why should their customers? by blackest_k · · Score: 1

      I was thinking about the tricky problem of exposure to music. If you haven't heard it just why would you want to buy it? The current solution tends to be download it and listen to it delete it if its really bad or just stick it in your collection.

      Paul McCartney kind of gave me an idea, when he decided to host his album in full on his website. (it was also noted that he has copyright on 3000 more songs that he probably could legally do the same with).

      I thought about the many times I had been hanging out with friends listening to music, often the first time I would hear a track would be at a friends house and yes sometimes it would get taped.

      Maybe Paul McCartney could be your friend so to speak and introduce you to many tracks that he owns rights too, not every track would appeal to you but some you might want to download from him and pay him for them,

      Theres a good number of people who could create sites like this jools holland has introduced 100's of artists to a wider audience via his TV Shows why not a web site. Alice Cooper does a breakfast show on digital radio, it would be interesting to see what he rates as good. Of course such sites need to be hosted by copyright holders or authorised by them.

      Its simple enough make the music accessible by streaming and people will go to listen and sometimes buy.
      Obviously this is the opposite of what currently happens RIAA members hoard songs and don't want you to hear them till you have paid and thus the alternative becomes attractive just download them.

      I think there would be millions of people who would willingly go to sites to listen to music legally and then later buy what they really like. By the artists developing an online persona, how you view the music changes its not sony's its pauls or who ever.

    2. Re:They don't care, so why should their customers? by Aerynvala · · Score: 1

      Exactly. And I have, in fact, found other bands/artists via recommendation from the musicians I already enjoy. I know that artists and labels can make available music on sites like Last.fm for streaming. In fact, I found a whole new artist via Last.fm's little banner advertisements. An unsigned kid out in California. Last.fm is owned by CBS now, I believe, so it has permissions and such. And on that site you can recommend music to your friends (it has a social networking component), though you're limited by what Last.fm has permission to host. And there are links to buy with Amazon and iTunes (maybe more).

      Muxtape.com died a sad death, but it allowed you to create 'mixtapes' to share with your friends. Again, just streaming.
      So there are sites and initiatives out there, but the labels are holding on so hard to their quick cash business model that they don't want to try to grow into the future at all.

      --
      http://transformativeworks.org/
    3. Re:They don't care, so why should their customers? by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      The 30 second previews on iTunes/Amazon just is not sufficient to make a buying decision.

      I'll give you a real-world example from five or ten years ago, when Santanna's Supernatural came out. Back in the day I loved Santanna, but hadn't even heard of them in decades. So when I read about them coming out with a new album, I was incredibly interested. So I fired up CD Now (this was before iTunes) and listened to the thirty second clips.

      "Blech", I said, "Santanna's really gone downhill. This SUCKS."

      Well, my daughter didn't know that, but she knew I had some Santanna cassettes so she bought the CD for me for Christmas that year.

      It ROCKED. The thirty second clips had lost them a sale, which they made back from pure luck. Had they provided full length MP3s of all the songs on the CD my daughter wouldn't have had a chance to buy it for Christmas, because I would have already bought it.

    4. Re:They don't care, so why should their customers? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I remember that the band Muse actually had every single song of theirs, including the live versions, streamable on their website. I used to load up the site and rock out, and eventually wanted to be able to take the songs with me, so I went and bought some of their albums. I think that's a great way to encourage some more people to outright purchase music.

    5. Re:They don't care, so why should their customers? by Aerynvala · · Score: 1

      They still do. And it's why I ended up getting both of the albums of theirs that I have. The media player on that site is really well done, IMO. Lets you choose by album, song or just a sort of Play All. Quite handy.

      --
      http://transformativeworks.org/
    6. Re:They don't care, so why should their customers? by Aerynvala · · Score: 1

      Yep. When I was peer pressuring gently recommending new music to my best friend she tried the preview in iTunes and was completely turned off. She finally gave in and tried a few songs because I couldn't stop praising the music and she trusted my taste. But it was with caution that she bought the individual songs. We're lucky, she and I, that our musical tastes are similar enough that if we recommend each other music there's a better than good chance that we'll like it. Being able to stream full examples at each other would make it even easier. And she's an impulse buyer, so she's a good target for sales given sufficient reassurances.

      --
      http://transformativeworks.org/
  16. Who pays more for ISPs? RIAA vs Users by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Let's say ISPs begin to cooperate with RIAA. The first few to participate would lose all their users (atleast those that care enough to pirate in the first palce) to ISPs that don't police their data.

    This leaves an ISP with an increasing percentage of income from the RIAA to police their (non-existent/non-offending) customers.

    There's a point where either the ISP will stop cooperating, or the RIAA is paying them more than their users...

  17. beware of people with the back of their head gone by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    it's an indication of the emptiness one experiences 'living' for the next game to provide content to the emptiness. better days ahead.

  18. There is never any proof. by Nabeel_co · · Score: 2, Informative

    What it always comes down to is that the RIAA never has any proof. When you buy a song, you get a right to use license, which means you have access to one copy of song/album xyz to listen to. But you could loose or have your copy stolen from you, that doesn't mean you lost the right to use license.

    How can they prove that you never purchased what you downloaded? They can't!

    Remember Eiffel 65? I had their CD, then I lost it, so I hit up WinMX (I think it was at the time), and downloaded it. What do you have to say about that RIAA? It is perfectly legal for me to download that CD because I'm not infringing on any copyrights.

    They prey on weak poor families who can't defend them selves, often with "proof" that is questionable at best.

    There will come a time when people like those who work at the RIAA will be healed accountable for what they do to the less fortunate people on this planet.

    1. Re:There is never any proof. by theilliterate · · Score: 1

      Your argument seems to be "I lost my hammer so I stole another one"

      Well, I lost my picture of a hammer so I photocopied a picture someone else has.

      Either way, you've done the deed. If it's illegal, your justification doesn't make it less so. Doesn't mean there's no proof.

    2. Re:There is never any proof. by Nabeel_co · · Score: 1

      You see, what you fail to understand is that when you buy music, software, and other copyrighted goods, you aren't actually purchasing the item, you are purchasing a right to use license.

      That's how copyright law works.

      If you buy a book, part of the cost goes to pay for the media itself (the book) and the rest goes to the publisher/author to pay for the information on the media. You don't own the information in the book, you own the paper used in the book and the right to read the information. That's all!

      The same goes with an audio CD. You don't own the music, you own an aluminum covered piece of plastic, and the right to listen to the song. That's why its illegal to buy a CD and exhibit it. That is not part of your right when you bought that license.

      Did you know that if you have an audio CD that is damaged, you (if you talk to the right person) can send it back to the record label, and get them to ship you a replacement at a reduced cost (just for shipping and media expenses)? Usually threatening to download it of the internet is enough to make them help you, because, after all, they would rather you buy it all over again.

      Why do you think radio stations don't just go out and buy CDs and play them? I assure you it's not because they enjoy paying more for the music.

      I suggest you brush up on your knowledge of copyright law before you start calling people thieves. Because, I for one didn't appreciate it.

    3. Re:There is never any proof. by uffe_nordholm · · Score: 1

      I think Nabeel_co raises an interesting issue, that I feel is far from simple.

      Suppose you buy a CD, and get a receipt for it (so you can prove you have bought it). On the way home you get the CD stolen (or lose it), but you still have the receipt. Would it then be legal for you to download the album? You do after all have 'a licence' to listen to the music.

      What if the RIAA drags you to court for copyright infringement, and you produce the receipt stating you have bought a CD with the music they accuse you of illegally downloading?

      Or suppose you buy a CD, and don't have it stolen or lost. But you want to play the music in your MP3-player. Since you are computer illiterate you download the MP3-files, instead of ripping & converting yourself. Should that be illegal?

    4. Re:There is never any proof. by Nabeel_co · · Score: 1

      Well, according to the Canadian Copyright laws as I understood them, in the scenario you mentioned, yes it would be perfectly legal for you to download that CD that was stolen from you, or lost, or if your too lazy to rip it yourself.

    5. Re:There is never any proof. by Nabeel_co · · Score: 1

      I should point out, I am in Canada, so our laws are slightly different from the US.

    6. Re:There is never any proof. by RMH101 · · Score: 1

      ...although if you download it using Bittorrent you're also *uploading* it at the same time: i.e. making it available to others.

    7. Re:There is never any proof. by Nabeel_co · · Score: 1

      ...although if you download it using Bittorrent you're also *uploading* it at the same time: i.e. making it available to others.

      Ah, now that in Canada is illegal.

    8. Re:There is never any proof. by RMH101 · · Score: 1

      Same generally, I think.
      Presumably it's an easy differentiator of which activities stand a better chance of a prosecution proceeding against them, i.e.
      Downloading of non-free content = often illegal, may be legitimate under some circumstances, uncertain you'd get a conviction
      Uploading of same content = pretty much always illegal, could probably get a conviction

    9. Re:There is never any proof. by Hatta · · Score: 1, Informative

      Remember Eiffel 65? I had their CD, then I lost it, so I hit up WinMX (I think it was at the time), and downloaded it. What do you have to say about that RIAA? It is perfectly legal for me to download that CD because I'm not infringing on any copyrights.

      That is not true. It is illegal to make a copy without their authorization. The fact that you bought a disk entitles you to nothing except using that disk.

      Not saying it's right or fair, but that's what the law is today.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    10. Re:There is never any proof. by Nabeel_co · · Score: 1

      Actually it is perfectly legal, I have not only talked to several lawyers about it, but I also looked it up in the Canadian Copyright laws myself.

      I don't understand how so many people have this misconception.

      If you are intitled to the information on that disk, not the disk itself. The disk itself is meaningless.

      If I buy a CD, and then copy it 100 times. That would be perfectly legal if I only use 1 copy at a time. If I wanted to use two copies at a time, I would need to buy 2 disks regardless of how many copies I have made.

      It's like if you buy Windows XP, you can only use it on one computer, otherwise it's copyright infringement. But copying the disk to a second CD is perfectly legal, and is often used in large corporations to integrate extra service packs or drivers.

      As long as you are only using the number of copies you purchased, how many copies you have is irrelevant.

      From the Government of Canada's website:

      (2) It is an infringement of copyright for any person to
      (a) sell or rent out,

      (b) distribute to such an extent as to affect prejudicially the owner of the copyright,

      (c) by way of trade distribute, expose or offer for sale or rental, or exhibit in public,

      (d) possess for the purpose of doing anything referred to in paragraphs (a) to (c), or

      (e) import into Canada for the purpose of doing anything referred to in paragraphs (a) to (c),

      If you are feeling adventurous, feel free to read the whole thing at: http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/C-42/index.html

      I must admit it has been quite a few years since I have studied Canada's copyright laws, so if you can poke holes in what I am stating, feel free, but quote the Copyright Act and include links for my reference.

    11. Re:There is never any proof. by cdrguru · · Score: 1

      The problem is, you have it backwards. It is perfectly legal for you to have the copy. It was unquestionably a copyright infringement for the person (or persons) you got it from to have given it to you.

      You do not have the right to get it, only to have it.

      Other people have the right to have it, but not to redistribute it.

    12. Re:There is never any proof. by Nabeel_co · · Score: 1

      Well, I don't know what else to say that I haven't said before...
      Check the Canadian Copyright Laws for yourself if you don't believe me: http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/C-42/index.html

    13. Re:There is never any proof. by Hatta · · Score: 1

      You're probably right about Canadian law. I speak of the US, where copying is a right strictly reserved for the copyright holder. Even archival copies of music and video are not allowed.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    14. Re:There is never any proof. by Nabeel_co · · Score: 1

      Ah I see. And those laws in the US are probably like that mainly because of the DMCA, I'm guessing...

    15. Re:There is never any proof. by Hatta · · Score: 1

      No, that's just the regular old copyright act. The DMCA's main effects were to prohibit the circumvention of copy protection, and to provide a safe harbor for content providers and a take down procedure for copyright holders.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    16. Re:There is never any proof. by plasmacutter · · Score: 1

      You're probably right about Canadian law. I speak of the US, where copying is a right strictly reserved for the copyright holder. Even archival copies of music and video are not allowed.

      and you are full of it still.

      It's called fair use.

      Backup copies are allowed. Just because the device accesses someone else's computer to produce the backup doesn't make it any less a backup.

      --
      VLC FOR MAC IS DYING! IF YOU DEVELOP, PLEASE SAVE IT!!
  19. Copyright Law by troll8901 · · Score: 1

    I remember somebody saying copyright law is okay, it's the abuse of the law that isn't okay.

    How do we stamp out law abuse?

    1. Re:Copyright Law by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Copyright abuse of law. Then sue the pants off anyone who infringes on your copyright.

  20. It's all about the money and lawyers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    How long would it take for an ISP to feel the pain of customers jumping ship because he enforces this? No the ISP revenue is from it's customers and small ISP are even less likely to sucomb to the RIAA.

    And what the hell does this mean? The RIAA is asking for action but says it does not know anything?

    Nothing contained or omitted from this letter is, or shall be deemed to be either a full statement of the facts or applicable law, an admission of any fact, or waiver or limitation of any of the Zappa Family Trust's rights or remedies, all of which are specifically retained and reserved.

  21. What is the actual implosion point by Phoenix666 · · Score: 1

    for the member companies of the RIAA? I think it's more productive for those passionate about this issue to examine the annual reports for the largest members of the RIAA, figure out what their financial point-of-no-return is, and come up with a plan to help them get there more quickly.

    Kind of makes me think the world needs an anti-RIAA to coordinate those efforts.

    --
    Do what you can, with what you have, where you are.
    1. Re:What is the actual implosion point by Sfing_ter · · Score: 1

      i thought Mr. Beckerman Esq. was just that Recording Industry Vs. The People It is my belief that he has become a very large boulder in their collective shoe.

      --
      A computer once beat me at chess, but it was no match for me at kick boxing. Emo Philips
  22. so linear by Technopaladin · · Score: 4, Funny

    Only if you listen to 1 song at a time.
    the trick is play 500 songs at 4x speed...then you are done in in like 55 years
    or if you will 4 songs at 500X speed.

    1. Re:so linear by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...[T]he trick is play 500 songs at 4x speed ... or if you will 4 songs at 500X speed.

      Hey, you must be a fan of Girl Talk too!

  23. Fundimentally, the RIAA has a flawed argument by edwardd · · Score: 1

    Their position is that since the ISP is providing a communications channel, it is incumbent upon the ISP to ensure that there is no infringement of the RIAA's intelectual property over that communication channel.

    If we draw this to it's logical conclusion, we see that this position means that any communication channel must be monitored for any activity that may be considered illegal, or that may infringe on someone's intellectual property. Since voice phone calls are communication channels as well, this position would require that every phone call be monitored in a similar fashion, as well as all print media, or any other communication channel that may be offered.

    This is clearly against the first amendment, and if it comes to a court room, the RIAA will fare poorly.

    1. Re:Fundimentally, the RIAA has a flawed argument by plasmacutter · · Score: 1

      You mean the way speed and red light cams have fared poorly?

      They do, after all, fail to provide any affirmative proof of the person behind the wheel, and people whose plates are caught by these cams suffer fines and insurance through the roof without due process.

      Who needs due process though. Recent rulings seem to think the constitution no longer applies.

      Same with the souter eminent domain ruling, among many others.

      The constitution is nothing more than a piss rag now, and has been since the 50's. Whoever has the most money is magically vindicated by the constitution.

      --
      VLC FOR MAC IS DYING! IF YOU DEVELOP, PLEASE SAVE IT!!
  24. they have some new murky legal theory by FeatherBoa · · Score: 1

    I think that the RIAA is signaling that they have an all-new tortured-logic murky legal theory that they intend to roll out. The target of the new theory is likely ISPs. We can look forward to ISPs being hit with bogus litigation in order to force their co-operation. The big guys who already do traffic shaping and content filtering will click their heels, shout "sieg heil" and close up file sharing -- the ones that haven't already. A few smaller ISPs will band together and fight it, until they run out of money and go out of business.

  25. The End of The Information Prohibition by kulakovich · · Score: 1

    ...is right around the corner...

    kulakovich

    1. Re:The End of The Information Prohibition by Pichu0102 · · Score: 1

      On the contrary, it's about to begin in full force.

  26. ISPs demanding money is a good idea -- Chris Rock by mlwmohawk · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Chris Rock has a routine that bullets should cost $5000, because if a bullet cost $5000 there would be no death by random bullets.

    Similarly, if RIAA and MPIAA has to pay a HUGE fee UPFRONT to remove a single user from an ISP, then they would target serious offenders, not just attempt to create an environment of fear.

    I'm not unsympathetic with what RIAA and MPIAA claim they want to do, ensuring that artists get fair compensation for their work, what I find despicable are their actions and tactics and the fact that the artists get next to nothing (or actually nothing.)

  27. Shameless plug! by shin0r · · Score: 3, Interesting

    http://superawesomebroadband.com/

    Unlimited connections on static IPs. Secure VPN exits in Sweden and Switzerland. No download or upload limits. No content filtering. No port blocking. No packet shaping. No transparent web caches. No fair usage policy. No Phorm. No small print. No call centres. No lock in period. No cooperation with the RIAA / MPAA.

    1. Re:Shameless plug! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's too bad more of us don't live in the UK...

  28. mercenaries in the war on customers by Presto+Vivace · · Score: 1

    It does not matter how many allies the RIAA has, they will never win a war with their customers.

  29. Making Available Is Not A Crime by Nom+du+Keyboard · · Score: 1

    As much as the RIAA wishes differently, attempted copyright infringement isn't actual copyright infringement, and isn't a crime under current copyright law. This new RIAA approach sidesteps that issue by sidestepping the courts entirely and convincing the ISPs that "Yes It Is, So Help Us Out!" While this is all blowhard garbage by the RIAA, they now have the Big Stick of your ISP to shut you down based on the RIAA wishlist of how they want the world to be.

    And it will probably take a few big class action suit wins to knock this nonsense out of your ISP.

    --
    "It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
    1. Re:Making Available Is Not A Crime by Toll_Free · · Score: 1

      Except in the US of A, we have a thing called CONSPIRACY.

      Actually thinking of, or trying to find a way to, commit an act is illegal.

      Think Ft. Dix defendants being found guilty. They didn't actually do anything, just where planning it.

      Come to think of it, thats the thought police. But then again, how many crimes have been foiled because we can arrest, detain and convict based upon probable cause on conspiring to do something against humanity or a person, place or thing?

      --Toll_Free

    2. Re:Making Available Is Not A Crime by plasmacutter · · Score: 1

      As much as the RIAA wishes differently, attempted copyright infringement isn't actual copyright infringement, and isn't a crime under current copyright law. This new RIAA approach sidesteps that issue by sidestepping the courts entirely and convincing the ISPs that "Yes It Is, So Help Us Out!" While this is all blowhard garbage by the RIAA, they now have the Big Stick of your ISP to shut you down based on the RIAA wishlist of how they want the world to be.

      And it will probably take a few big class action suit wins to knock this nonsense out of your ISP.

      It only took a few isolated wins here and there on a small scale to put the writing on the wall for them.

      A few individual actions against the RIAA for harassment (you can't nail the ISP because they can modify their TOS at any time) should kill this one too.

      --
      VLC FOR MAC IS DYING! IF YOU DEVELOP, PLEASE SAVE IT!!
  30. Re:Mull the Pall in Sherpa Stations.. by UncleTogie · · Score: 1

    Did I mention Netflix?

    Sure, you mentioned Netflix... but if I want to watch "live" movies from Netflix, I'm screwed 'cause of my hearing... It's the biggest reason I don't use 'em.

    Got a better suggestion for legal online movie viewing for a deaf guy?

    --
    Don't tell me to get a life. I'm a gamer; I have LOTS of lives!
  31. When will they understand? by cdrguru · · Score: 2, Interesting

    It is all free now. Period. No recourse.

    Law enforcement? Ha. Nobody gives a damn. Civil suits? Sorry, but we're putting roadblocks in the way to ensure that anonymous users on the Internet STAY anonymous and cannot be sued.

    Now the down side to this is pretty clear - if I use the Internet, I can get away with anything. Either the court doesn't understand the technology or there are regulations and customs in place to prevent any real prosecution. Sure, if I run to a cop and say "I did it! Aren't I kewl!" I will find myself in trouble. But if I can contain my glee I have nothing to fear.

    But the RIAA isn't going to benefit from the "downside" to this. There isn't any rescue for them - if it is in digital form, then it can be shared. They get to sell one and only one copy so it better be priced right. From then on, it is a free-for-all with everyone with high-speed Internet downloading whatever they want. Don't have a broadband connection? Too bad, you aren't included in the new economy. I guess you still have to pay. Until you wise up or we have a tax payer supported Internet Utility so everyone gets stuff for free.

    Recorded music has been forced into being an ad-supported loss-leader. Sure, there are some folks that will pay iTunes to aswage their guilt. Or the latest incarnation of AllOfMP3.com. Whatever. None of this makes for a "business" to the people producing the stuff, and the more people learn about BitTorrent and other P2P tools the less traffic iTunes will have. Guilt? Well, I'm sure the guilty will always be with us, just like the poor. I don't think it will be enough to keep them in business, but there will always be people that find a store to pay 10x as much as somewhere else. Why do these stores stay in business?

    But no matter what, the idea of anyone paying for recorded music will be pretty much like the idea of paying for sex from 26-year-old crack whores. Some people do it, but nobody really understands why and everyone thinks it is disgusting.

    1. Re:When will they understand? by BitZtream · · Score: 1

      You haven't lived til you've had sex with a 26 year old crack whore. At that point, they are experienced and to the point, which makes for quick turn around on your servicing. Well worth the five bucks they charge, unlike the $15 we're expected to pay for a CD full of crap.

      --
      Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
  32. yum! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'd like a drink from that ppstream!

  33. yum! by ovu · · Score: 2, Funny

    I'd like to sip from that ppstream!

  34. Re:Mull the Pall in Sherpa Stations.. by BAKup · · Score: 1

    Well, I don't know of any legal online movie viewing services that has CC included.

  35. ? Multiple interpretations - multiple laws by crovira · · Score: 1

    The totality for ALL copyright law is being extended by works done for hire for a single corporation (which NEVER dies, though it may go bankrupt.)

    We need:
      one law for people (14 years from publication[, which should be enough time according to assorted studies,]) and
      one law for corporations (14 years since last use[, which should be enough to protect them too{, which means that we need not "fear Mickey Mouse"(, nor would "Mickey Mouse" have any reason to fear us.)}])

    BUT works owned by corporations CANNOT be labeled as anything but as owned by the corporation.

    That insures that the provenance is clear.

    That insures that the ultimate destination for moneys paid is clear.

    That insures that you know EXACTLY WHAT YOU ARE PAYING FOR.

    If you still want it, knock yourself out, but you should KNOW.

    Then you'll know what you've got when you see RIGHT ON THE CD JACKET or ON THE INVOICE FOR THE DOWNLOAD (and tagged in the MP3)
      ""
      song: ""
      as performed by: ""
      © ""
      licensed for personal play ONLY
      by: ""

    --
    MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
  36. Welcome to the minority! by TechnicolourSquirrel · · Score: 1

    Welcome to the post of the minority opinionator, where your opinion matters. Unless it agrees with that of the majority. Then you are obviously being coopted and brainwashed. Only those who hold minority opinions can possibly have logic on their side. No, this isn't sore-loser whining: it's principle! Anyone who agrees with the majority obviously has no principles, since the only explanation for this common opinioin is that the holders of it are afraid of the majority. I am unafraid therefore I am right. Your Mileage Must Vary.

  37. Correction by Reziac · · Score: 1

    Original DOOM did not have mouselook, tho some of the later ports do (like ZDoom), as did Quake, IIRC.

    --
    ~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
  38. Re:ISPs demanding money is a good idea -- Chris Ro by rossz · · Score: 2, Funny

    Chris Rock has a routine that bullets should cost $5000, because if a bullet cost $5000 there would be no death by random bullets.

    And it's a damn stupid idea. I like to target shoot. On a typical trip to the range I go through several hundred rounds of ammo. Under his idiotic plan, my hobby would cost me at least a million dollars. He wants to tax an innocent hobby so that only the very rich and elite chosen class can afford it.

    His idea also assumes that criminals would follow the law and only buy their ammo from legitimate ammo suppliers. At $5000/bullet I don't think illegal immigrants would have a problem with a pocket of bullets when they sneak across the border.

    --
    -- Will program for bandwidth
  39. Yes it does mean NO. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This insanity requires ISP to pay the bill for the RIAA. As the RIAA has found out, you can't cut corners. That bill is extremely high. If the RIAA had to pay, they would run out of money.

    The sickening part is that it is a STANDARD business model to lie to you shareholder about your business or its potential. That "Piracy made us loose XXX $ ..." is the perfect example: Their numbers never include their actual projected revenues with NO piracy.

    A few variables that are conveniently "forgotten":

    Publicity lost: Piracy is a form of publicity.

    Non buyers: Those who will not buy regardless.

    Cost of refunds: Yes, they have one of the only business where poor quality will not force massive refunds. The law protect them from that. Remove piracy and that protection is no longer justified.

    Etc.

  40. That's why the economy's in the shitter by crovira · · Score: 1

    According to one friend of mine...

    Having to pay off to individuals solely vested in one corporation means wiping out that one corporation wipes them all out in one fell swoop. (And the money that was there and now which is no longer there had to go ... somewhere, in the pockets of them there rich folks, right? [Well not quite since money is fungible {some to do with fungus, I think. (Created spontaneously from nothing. [Sorta like the trillions of US Federal Reserve notes {NOT a department of the US Gummint by the way.}])}])

    Instead now the powers that be, in order to make us all miserable and scared and too distracted to "Pay Attention To What's Really Going On"©(TM)® and rising up to string up by their own intestines, had to take the entire economy off-line.

    This was an improvement?!?!

    --
    MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
  41. Re:ISPs demanding money is a good idea -- Chris Ro by onkelonkel · · Score: 1

    Here's the thing. Chris Rock is a comedian. He was making a joke. Just thought you'd want to know that.

    --
    None of them can see the clouds; The polished wings don't care.
  42. Re:Mull the Pall in Sherpa Stations.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Sure, you mentioned Netflix... but if I want to watch "live" movies from Netflix, I'm screwed 'cause of my hearing... It's the biggest reason I don't use 'em.

    If I want to watch "live" movies from Netflix, I'm screwed 'cause of my dialup. So I don't watch live movies from Netflix; I get them through the mail.

  43. ISP cooperation? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If the RIAA actually manages to convince ISPs to ban the 20% of their customers that use the internet the most, people will finally insist our government take control of the telecommunications infrastructure that we subsidized. This way ISPs who allow themselves to become RIAA puppets will just be competed out of the market by ISPs that provide a dumb pipe. This will solve the net neutrality debate.

    Merry christmas to you, too, RIAA!

  44. This site might be useful for some by shermo · · Score: 1

    http://www.riaaradar.com/

    I love looking on this site and finding that my favourite bands aren't RIAA funded.

    --
    Insanity: voting in the same two parties over and over again and expecting different results
  45. Re:Mull the Pall in Sherpa Stations.. by UncleTogie · · Score: 1

    If I want to watch "live" movies from Netflix, I'm screwed 'cause of my dialup.

    Your dialup isn't bodily integrated, is it? With other media streamers able to send CC/subtitles, this is a glaring omission from NF's services... and a reason NOT to tout them as firmly as above.

    --
    Don't tell me to get a life. I'm a gamer; I have LOTS of lives!
  46. Re:Mull the Pall in Sherpa Stations.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The OP was touting Netflix as an alternative to purchasing or illegally downloading DVDs, neither of which gives you on-demand streaming. Just like those two options, however, Netflix via USPS gives you CC'd movies.

    So part of the Netflix offerings are unusuable to you. A large number of their customers also are unable to "Watch Instantly" for varying reasons (I don't have the right OS or browser, myself). That doesn't stop those customers from finding Netflix worthwhile.

  47. Mod parent funny by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    On all of these he takes the standard American-liberal position.

    You have a good sense of humor, that was a very funny joke.

  48. Re:ISPs demanding money is a good idea -- Chris Ro by mdmkolbe · · Score: 1

    You bring up a good point. At $5000 a bullet, criminals will spend less time target practicing. They won't learn how to aim. We will have just replaced random bullet fatalities with poorly aimed bullet fatalities. Oh the humanity.

  49. go get TB HD's and GO GO GO by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    any isp that signs on to there extortion ill drop , should there be no isps left well YUP im leaving the net then aren't I.
    ANd i still wont be buying there crap.
    NO until then im going to pirate even harder and get TB drives to get all the tv and movies i ever wanted in response to this action.

    Also note they have launched 12 suits against people last week so they are trying to tax you and sue you.
    NICE
    Merry Christmas i just got terabyte Hard drive!

  50. Re:Mull the Pall in Sherpa Stations.. by plasmacutter · · Score: 1

    I support the pro-downloading crowd, but I didn't know ripping groups went out of their way to provide access for the hearing impaired : /

    --
    VLC FOR MAC IS DYING! IF YOU DEVELOP, PLEASE SAVE IT!!
  51. Not really. by plasmacutter · · Score: 1

    If i'm making buggy whips, and I see this here new ford, i'm going to retool my factory to make leather interiors for the ford, or leather jackets, or something else which can be produced with minimal modification.

    The record companies' main job is PR and marketing. A proper exec who thinks of the future might start treating artists as free agents and charge fees for marketing services, but that would involve giving up a huge racket.

      Who needs that when you can use immense amounts of cash and heavy control over the news media to twist legislative arms and destroy civil liberties en masse?

    --
    VLC FOR MAC IS DYING! IF YOU DEVELOP, PLEASE SAVE IT!!
  52. Re:ISPs demanding money is a good idea -- Chris Ro by plasmacutter · · Score: 1

    The problem is the majority of gun deaths in the US are the result of impulse actions.

    It would cut down on gun deaths and injuries quite a bit because fewer people would carry guns, and those who did would think twice before spending 5k, even if they're pissed.

    --
    VLC FOR MAC IS DYING! IF YOU DEVELOP, PLEASE SAVE IT!!
  53. Read up on your politics.. by plasmacutter · · Score: 1

    "What's your billing address?"

    That's not exactly an unequivocal rejection.

    read up on your politics.

    The diaRIAA has been insisting to lawmakers that ISPs are intentionally uncooperative trying to get "3 strikes" laws shoved down their throats.

    This sidesteps the issue in the same way the MAFIAA are trying to sidestep the courts. "pay us, just a modest fee of 10,000 per user"

    --
    VLC FOR MAC IS DYING! IF YOU DEVELOP, PLEASE SAVE IT!!
  54. Time Scale Modification by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Downmix to mono, one song for each ear. Transpose some songs two octaves up, some two octaves down, play them at the same time too.
    The 4x speed is merely a software limitation; VLC (1.0.0 nightly alphas) only plays sound (increased tempo, normal pitch) at 4x , no longer at 8x speed. Windows Media Player goes upto 16x. Though the quality of of WMPs time stretching is quite useless beyond 2x speeds.

  55. Unfortunately for EA... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Mirror's Edge and Dead Space have not sold well so far this year.

    See what happens when they try to publish innovative titles (neither of them was developed in-house by EA)?

    Gamers fail to reward them with the dollars. So EA will now cut 10% of its workforce, close some sites, and go back to making Madden 2010 and such (which did sell well this year).

    As an employee of one of EA's largest competitors, let me say that its really a shame to see EA start doing something right with games like Mirror's Edge, and then see the market not reward them for their efforts.

    I certainly bought two copies of Mirror's Edge (one as a christmas gift) and a copy of Dead Space for myself, so I've done my part. I wish everyone on Slashdot would do the same!

  56. RIAA + ISP - VOIP 911 = Major Lawsuit! by cyber_flash · · Score: 1

    Imagine the RIAA pushed your ISP into suspending your account and a critical emergency arises! For example, an old lady suffering a heart attack tries to call 911 using Vonage, but the system responds with: "Sorry, your internet connection has been suspended due to a music copyright infringement". The lady dies!. Unknown to her, 13 yr old grandson johnny had a P2P file sharing program installed on her computer. Epitaph reads: "RIAA/ISP 1, little old lady 0". Bring it on RIAA/ISP... Solution: Provide a legit medium to acquire songs, such as Netflix does with videos, etc.,... Thanks.

  57. Original report was propaganda by NewYorkCountryLawyer · · Score: 1

    I think the original report was merely propaganda. They haven't stopped bringing lawsuits, they don't have any deals in place with any ISP's, and what the heck does the NYS Attorney General have to do with this issue? Which New York law was he enforcing? And against whom?

    "IP Watch" couldn't get any confirmation on any of this stuff.

    It was just some kind of propaganda. Ask the lawyer in Greensboro, North Carolina, who has 15 cases to defend whether anything's changed.

    --
    Ray Beckerman +5 Insightful
  58. Try getting your facts right by Garwulf · · Score: 1

    "I still don't see anyone giving any good reason why these monopolies should be granted for such ridiculous amounts of time."

    I'm not going to bother arguing with you on that - there are very good arguments out there, from ensuring that the work has a champion to improve its chances of survival to giving creative artists a legacy to leave to their descendants, but you strike me as one of the people here who are too interested in reinforcing their own sense of entitlement to actually listen to anything that contradicts your beliefs.

    If I'm wrong about that, and I hope I am, and you are actually wanting to become more informed about the issue, you will want to read this paper published in a peer-reviewed law journal: http://llr.lls.edu/volumes/v36-issue1/martin-original1.pdf

    (Ironically, he's writing more about the constitutional issues, but he still covers the arguments you're wanting to learn about quite well.)

    "And why was Disney able to create its classics? Because those fairy tales weren't copyrighted, so Disney just did what they wanted with them, with no restrictions or payment needed. That doesn't hold true for practically anything created in the last 70 years or so."

    You mean besides a large number of the works by Robert E. Howard and H.P. Lovecraft?

    You're holding up basic math as the problem here. The term in the United States is now lifetime plus seventy years. Of course a lot of work will fall into that - but not all. Because of the way that copyright in the United States has lagged behind the rest of the world, the actual issue of what is in the public domain is far more complicated. Here is the actual chart that shows copyright terms:

    http://www.copyright.cornell.edu/public_domain/

    I am going to point out a couple of things. First of all, not all of the work in the last century in the United States receives a term of lifetime + 70 years. In fact, only those works created after 1978 receive that term. For that matter, anything published between 1978 and March 1, 1989 without copyright notice or registration is now in the public domain in the United States.

    Additionally, the longest copyright term for anything published from 1923-1977 is, in fact, 95 years from date of publication, and that's only if the copyright was renewed - and according to footnote 8, as of 1961 less than 15% of total works were, and less than 7% of books were. So, far from the whole of culture in the United States from 1923 onwards being locked away behind copyright law, odds are that 85% of cultural works between 1923 and 1963 at the very least are in the public domain right now, and 93% of books published by American authors in that time are now public domain.

    So, the idea that nothing has entered the public domain in the last 70 years because of copyright term extensions is blatantly wrong. For that matter, the Sonny Bono extension act stripped a number of works that had previously enjoyed perpetual copyright due to a form of common law of their copyright protection, and placed them in the public domain.

    So, before you make any more claims about how culture is being locked away, or how nothing in the last 70 years is entering the public domain, you might really want to do some basic research and get your facts right.

    --
    Robert B. Marks
    Author, Demonsbane in Diablo Archive