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Worlds.com Sues NCSoft Over MMO-Patent

Lulfas writes "Worlds.com today sued NCSoft over its patent on a scalable virtual world, filed in 2000 and granted this February. This is a very broad base patent, and there is no reason to expect they will only sue NCSoft, when they should be able to use the same patent against other companies. 'Specifically, the suit claims that NCsoft has infringed on patent 7,181,690, "System and Method for Enabling Users to Interact in a Virtual Space" through its games, including City of Heroes, City of Villains, Dungeon Runners, Exteel, Guild Wars, Lineage, Lineage II, and Tabula Rasa.'"

261 comments

  1. Prior Art? by LabRat · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Filed in 2000? Um...shouldn't be too hard to show prior art to overturn it if the patent indeed is applicable to operating MMOs. UO and EQ for sure...probably even text-based MUDs.

    1. Re:Prior Art? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      UO's first expansion was already out before 2000 as well, so they earn the "scalable" portion as well.

    2. Re:Prior Art? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      No probably about it, you're spot on right there.

      Between Meridian 59, UO, EQ Mankind, the 236423875648154166935198635162538713568653 (give or take) mud codebases both open source and proprietary ...and probably a bunch of other things i know nothing about.

    3. Re:Prior Art? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      Its not just MMOs. Quake, UT, etc all fit this description as well.

    4. Re:Prior Art? by Kindaian · · Score: 4, Informative

      Even some of NCSoft games are prior art to that.

      But the issue is a bit irrelevant due to the fact that as stated before elsewhere VRML existed way before it.

      Also "World" is a fictional MMORPG anime series and fully trademarked...

      Also.. shockwave dates from 2000, and i'm sure Macromedia/Adobe will have tons of patents related with them.

      *drumrolls*

    5. Re:Prior Art? by digitalunity · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Won't matter. They chose NCSoft because they will be insolvent in February. The suit was filed now in hopes that they will end up winning by default judgement, which will give them leverage in future negotations with other victims.

      There is no upside for NCSoft to fight it since any money spent is just less that can be disbursed internally. I hope other MMO publishers will pony up for NCSoft to see this suit through.

      --
      You can't legislate goodness. Let each to his own destiny, by will of his freely made choices.
    6. Re:Prior Art? by skaet · · Score: 1

      IANAL but it's hard to deny there's plenty of prior art that's for certain. Though the patent clearly states (paraphrased) "a three-dimensional graphical, multi-user world where each user executes a client to view a virtual world from the perspective of that user."

      This suggests that text-based MUDs are excluded because they're not three-dimensional (although certainly graphical and multi-user in nature) and don't display the virtual world from the perspective of the user.

      --
      There is no knowledge that is not power.
    7. Re:Prior Art? by Purity+Of+Essence · · Score: 3, Informative

      Filed in 2000? Um...shouldn't be too hard to show prior art

      Well, they filed an almost identical patent in 1994, which shows slightly more forethought on their part. But still, I played GCP in the mid-eighties which covers most, if not all, of the claims.

      --
      +0 Meh
    8. Re:Prior Art? by Purity+Of+Essence · · Score: 2, Informative

      in 1994

      Drat. 1994 should have been 1996.

      --
      +0 Meh
    9. Re:Prior Art? by hairyfeet · · Score: 2, Informative

      Citation please? Because I just checked Google News and Slashdot and couldn't find any articles saying they were going out of business. I knew Tabula Rasa had to hurt but I thought the City Of franchises were doing well. So if you don't mind a link to the article saying that NCSoft will be broke in Feb please.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    10. Re:Prior Art? by Dachannien · · Score: 1

      NCSoft might consider that the patent at hand has a terminal disclaimer filed in it referring to the patent you mentioned. While the new patent has only been issued for a year and change, one might wonder whether the doctrine of laches would apply since the PTO decided that one of the old and new patents is obvious over the other, and the patent holder neglected to sue on the basis of the older patent for 12 years or so.

      Also, I think MUDs read on at least some of the claims, and at least some of the others probably won't stand up to Bilski.

      I'm not a lawyer or anything, but it's just something to think about. You know, "hmmmm" and all that.

    11. Re:Prior Art? by Gerzel · · Score: 1

      Prior Art imagining a virtual extendable world:

      Snow Crash by Neal Stephenson 1979

    12. Re:Prior Art? by hardburn · · Score: 1

      Just cite Snow Crash as prior art. Or even Neuromancer.

      --
      Not a typewriter
    13. Re:Prior Art? by Snotman · · Score: 1

      So what if MUDs were not graphical; is adding 3D graphics novel? MUDs should sue Worlds for creating a multi-user environment where users can interact. That seems to be more fundamental than the fact that 3D was added.

    14. Re:Prior Art? by Snotman · · Score: 2, Insightful

      How about this as a MMO without 3D - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sierra_On-Line#The_Sierra_Network? Seems like this maybe considered prior art as far back as 1990 except for 3D which I think is more of a rendering detail and not novel invention.

    15. Re:Prior Art? by SCPRedMage · · Score: 3, Interesting

      FPS's probably don't meet the "scalability" part of the patent, though...

      --
      My sig can beat up your sig.
    16. Re:Prior Art? by dbIII · · Score: 1

      I'm pretty sure I saw an attempt at a scalable virtual world with 3D displays at Expo88 - I think it was by people at Hitachi but there were other groups doing that sort of thing. Can somebody please insist that the patent office be a bit more than a fee for someone to get a rubber stamp on a bit of paper?

    17. Re:Prior Art? by MichaelSmith · · Score: 1

      Prior Art imagining a virtual extendable world:

      Snow Crash by Neal Stephenson 1979

      Actually it was published in 1992.

    18. Re:Prior Art? by TheLink · · Score: 0, Troll

      The patent system doesn't scale.

      As the number of people, innovation fields and patents go up, anything like the current patent system will fail and fail badly. Worse if you want/expect the pace of innovation to increase.

      Personally I think we should just throw it all away and reward inventors with Innovation Prizes. Hindsight is always better. 10 years down the line you are more likely to know whether an invention was deserving or not. In contrast a patent examiner has a more limited time to decide to rubber stamp it or not.

      You could have two classes of prizes - an "critics/expert prize" where the experts in the field award it, and a "users prize" where normal members of the public will vote to award such prizes.

      This way you can reward both popular inventions, and ultrainnovative ones that the general public may not know about.

      A bit like the Nebula and Hugo awards, but perhaps not in implementation.

      --
    19. Re:Prior Art? by arth1 · · Score: 1

      Just cite Snow Crash as prior art.

      Nope. Snow Crash was released in 2002, and the patent was applied for in 2000.

      Vernor Vinge's "True Names" from 1981 is probably one of the first descriptions of a simulated reality in literature.

    20. Re:Prior Art? by dbIII · · Score: 1

      Oh, you're back. Nice pile of rambling bullshit to stir people up a bit to object and fool them into clicking on your logout link practical joke which you still haven't grown out of. Could you please leave this to people that want to have a discussion on the topic instead?

    21. Re:Prior Art? by ggy · · Score: 1

      Or how about Lucasarts' Habitat for even more prior art?

    22. Re:Prior Art? by dontPanik · · Score: 1

      probably even text-based MUDs.

      Not text-based MUDs, because the patent specifies a 3-D world and MUDs have well... 0 dimensions...

      --
      "Computers are useless. They can only give you answers." - Pablo Picasso
    23. Re:Prior Art? by Feanturi · · Score: 1

      I have distinct memories of the places I have been in in MUDs, and my memories show them most definitely in 3D. Sure, my brain had to do the rendering from the text descriptions of the rooms, but this was an automatic process, exactly like when you read a book. I was immersed in a world as vibrant and real as my imagination could make it. Superior in many ways to actual graphical displays that shortcut the imagination, leaving you stuck with exactly whatever the designers were able to come up with and no personal embellishment at all.

    24. Re:Prior Art? by powerlord · · Score: 1

      I'm not sure how much forethought there was on their part.

      Remember, Quake came out in 1996 (and Doom/Wolfenstein before it).

      I think one of the cruxes of their patent is that it is the users has an Avatar, that its taking place in a 3D environment, and that the location information is being passed from a client to a server.

      I was initially thinking of early 80's online games (Islands of Kesmai and British Legends on Compuserve for instance), but British Legends (based on MUD) didn't have avatars, and Island of Kesmai was tile based with programs that took the terminal output and just "prettied" it up. Non of the actual processing happened on the local computer (it was also not 3D). GCP seems similar.

      Considering the Wolfenstein, Doom and Quake pre-existing as prior art, there is a certain amount of obviousness to the patent. My guess is that they were just the first ones to think about patenting the obvious, and the Patent Office had no experience with this sort of technology at the time?

      --
      This space for rent. All reasonable inquiries will be entertained at proprietors discretion.
    25. Re:Prior Art? by TheLink · · Score: 1

      1) I was on topic. You're the one taking it offtopic now.
      2) It's not a logout link.
      3) A Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to you too.

      --
    26. Re:Prior Art? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMCf7SNUb-Q That is the actual link.... Nothing bad.. some dolphins playing around with bubbles in the water... Actually quite cool.

    27. Re:Prior Art? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Snow Crash" was published in 1992. Just a heads up.

    28. Re:Prior Art? by dbIII · · Score: 1
      The pile of words above about awards and competitions has little or nothing to do with IP disputes and the post contained your usual practical joke. I really do not want my comment to be a seed for some trolling game so the best bet was for me to reply as above so we can both get modded into oblivion to bring things back to an adult level of discussion.

      You've been here a long time and the comments are there for all to see.

    29. Re:Prior Art? by immcintosh · · Score: 1

      MUDs won't work as prior art because most of the claims in this patent deal with tracking avatar orientation, which to the best of my knowledge MUDs do not do.

      Ultima Online, Everquest, and any number of graphical multiplayer online games which were released before 2000, however, seem to employ every claim in this patent. This really goes to show how utterly shameful our patent system has become. 10 minutes on the internet by the patent examiner should have been enough to turn up more prior art than you can shake a bureaucracy at.

    30. Re:Prior Art? by immcintosh · · Score: 1

      The interesting thing about that 1994 patent is it leaves out just enough of the stuff that was included in the 2000 patent to be vulnerable to additional earlier-than-1994 prior art claims which the 2000 patent looks to be immune from. At least, that's how my reading of the patent and my knowledge of video game history leads me to think.

      Unfortunately, they're still behind the curve, because the 2000 patent is still vulnerable to a number of between-1994-and-2000 prior art claims (and possibly some even earlier, although I don't know if any earlier games touched on every one of the patent claims).

      All in all, this is just another waste of money and time.

    31. Re:Prior Art? by theArtificial · · Score: 0

      Something along those lines that is still online (amazingly enough) is The Realm

      --
      Man blir trött av att gå och göra ingenting.
    32. Re:Prior Art? by LabRat · · Score: 1

      It all depends on how you interpret some of the claims in the patent. While it does appear to mean a 3-d rendered world on the client...some of the claims are completely server-oriented. And yes, even text-based MUDs can (and were) 3-D at the server level having an ability to travel along compass rose points as well as climb/descend vertically. It's a stretch..but that's what a good lawyer does ;)

      That said..obviously games like EQ will be the biggest obstacle in the prior-art argument. The continuation patent application is problematic..I haven't studied the original 1996 patent in sufficient detail to see if all of the claims THERE are applicable to the claims related to EQ et al in the 2000 patent. And again, the details in the 1996 patent go into such excrutiating minutia it's likely that any broadening of the patent claims ex post facto in the 2000 patent might very well be overturned. IANAL and all that..but I think they've got an uphill battle if they want to take on a Sony or Blizzard.

    33. Re:Prior Art? by samkass · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I'm certainly not going to defend this patent. But I did read it, and I don't see how any of the terminal-based MUD-like games apply. The very first claim specifies a client process and a server process, and the client process receiving positional information of a subset of the users in the world and the client determining what is to be displayed, then displaying avatars for users.

      In addition, simple technologies like VRML and Flash, without an avatar and virtual world built on them, wouldn't be prior art.

      I don't know how UO or EQ were implemented, but they'd be the obvious candidates for prior art on many if not all of the claims. Everquest, though, was first released in 1999 and their inventions may not predate the patent's. Ultima Online, though, released in 1997 is probably the best bet.

      --
      E pluribus unum
    34. Re:Prior Art? by LabRat · · Score: 1

      I agree that MUDs were a stretch...but there *were* 3-d muds (can move compass rose as well up/down), just without a corresponding 3d rendering engine (although they are available these days). The patent goes into some detail regarding chat server functionality and message passing..which *was* present in MUDs. Again..a stretch..I was just throwing that out there.

      EQ had screenshots released from its alpha as early as Jan 2007. It's not much of a stretch to think it was in development earlier than the 1996 filing of the "parent" patent...so I think they're sunk :D UO was even earlier..though it might not have implemented the server-side positional occlusion stuff..I don't know enough about its architecture to comment definitively though it's certainly worth investigating by ncsoft. Ditto Meridian 59. Guess we'll have to wait and see :)

      Not only that...but the architecture detailed in the patent seems pretty specific...it's going to be tough, IMHO, to prove infringement. Not only that, but the latest environment for invalidating software patents in general can't be good for world.com.

    35. Re:Prior Art? by Drathos · · Score: 1

      You're off by a decade. Snow Crash was released in 1992. I read it as part of a college course (Science Fiction and Virtual Reality) in 1995.

      --
      End of line..
    36. Re:Prior Art? by Skuld-Chan · · Score: 1

      Forgive me for being daft, but it clearly says it was filed in 1996...

      Where did 1994 come from other than worlds.com's press release?

    37. Re:Prior Art? by Purity+Of+Essence · · Score: 1

      You are forgiven.

      --
      +0 Meh
  2. Bilski? by poetmatt · · Score: 3, Informative

    Bilski will invalidate this extremely quickly. I guess the company suing really thought NCsoft won't figure that out, or maybe they wanted it to be invalidated that fast?

    1. Re:Bilski? by Penguinisto · · Score: 1

      Could just be a quickie game of 'chicken'... they likely hoped that NCSoft would rather settle out of court and 'license' the technology for less (just barely less) than it would normally cost to gear up the lawyers and take it to court (which costs in time, $$$, etc...)

      This in turn would give the troll a precedent with which to go after anyone else.

      *sigh* - what I wouldn't give for decent tort reform, in which any plaintiff who is a corporation or representative thereof, and loses, is forced to pay the defendant, say, 10x the legal fees of the defendant as a penalty. That, or legal fees + money originally demanded by the plaintiff (and that amount must be stated up front). It would at least cause the more idiotic amoung us to stop and think before litigating when they cannot innovate...

      /P

      --
      Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
  3. Seriously? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Doesn't this apply to pretty much every MMO out there? Such a waste of text. Patent should be destroyed, and whoever is worlds.com's head of legal should be punched in the face with a wrecking ball.

  4. LambdaMOO by OrangeTide · · Score: 4, Funny

    Sorry, Xerox beat you to it. They invented everything first.

    --
    “Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
    1. Re:LambdaMOO by Arthur+Grumbine · · Score: 3, Funny

      Xerox invents everything first.
      -This idea was invented by Shampoo

      ...
      ...which caused/causes/is causing/will have caused an infinite causal regression...loop...thing...

      --
      Now that I think about it, I'm pretty sure everything I just said is completely wrong.
    2. Re:LambdaMOO by hairyfeet · · Score: 4, Funny

      Sorry that this is off topic, but Google won't give me the answer and this meme is irritating me. Who the hell is Shampoo?

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    3. Re:LambdaMOO by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      YOU.

    4. Re:LambdaMOO by guruevi · · Score: 1

      Actually Xerox PARC, Alcatel and Bell Labs as well as many other labs (private and government) all over the world have contributed much to computer and telecommunication science, general science, public domain and garage tinkering before real management was replaced in the '90s by PHB's (at all levels) trying to turn a quick buck/promotion before they moved on. I think it was mostly the dot com bubble that killed off a lot of good research going on there. All of a sudden stockowners, bean counters and top managers wanted to see a huge profit similar to the .com boomers and a lot of the less profitable divisions were killed off and replaced with idiots trying to build the next best online app.

      It's sad to see. I actually tried working at some of those places but they were all downsizing (like Alcatel) due to other divisions posting huge losses in what was expected to be huge but eventually never paid out.

      --
      Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
    5. Re:LambdaMOO by baKanale · · Score: 4, Informative

      Slashdot Disagree Mail on November 07 Scroll down to the last email.

    6. Re:LambdaMOO by Adriax · · Score: 1

      Ugh, Shampoo isn't a meme, there's just a core group of people are trying to force it to be one.

      --
      I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it!
    7. Re:LambdaMOO by b4dc0d3r · · Score: 1

      Interesting. Disagree mail is from Nov. 2007.

      The same thing was posted by "rob malda" <ma...@slashdot.org> 3 years before that.

      alt.tv.public-access
      http://groups.google.com/group/alt.tv.public-access/browse_thread/thread/3b52704212f7d6b/330487904ec7c865#330487904ec7c865

      alt.tv.tech.misc
      http://groups.google.com/group/alt.tv.tech.misc/browse_thread/thread/ec1caa9d23020f61/235f20df3c7ece53#235f20df3c7ece53

      And that's the user's entire google groups profile. How is it this was posted twice, in its entirety, then 5 years later sent one by one back to the person who sent them (Rob)? "This guy would send us one of these at the end of the week for almost a year."

    8. Re:LambdaMOO by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't know which one you are referring to.

      Just two of the many answers.

      A musical group. Did the song "Uh Oh" in the original Power Rangers movie.

      A Chinese Amazon with blue hair in the Ranma 1/2 series. And she changes into a cat when doused with water.

    9. Re:LambdaMOO by JustOK · · Score: 1

      they're probably just old people in korea using email

      --
      rewriting history since 2109
    10. Re:LambdaMOO by SIR_Taco · · Score: 1

      Well it would seem that this will answer your question. Go straight to the bottom, no need to read it all haha

      Shampoo

      Document revised at 4:42 PM on February 24th 2003.

      Financial donations (since I am on disability) or questions may be directed
      at:

      Kevin Nadeau (shampoo)
      1 Lakeshore Blvd.
      Ennismore Ontario, Canada
      K0L 1T0

      Of course then that would be assuming that the information is credible...

      --
      I say don't drink and drive, you might spill your drink. Before you get behind the wheel just stop and think.
    11. Re:LambdaMOO by shlepp · · Score: 1

      Gene Simmons invented everything and owns all patents, or at least he claims to according Dee Snider.

    12. Re:LambdaMOO by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      have fun:
      http://www.reignofswords.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=238&view=next&sid=96ae8e16a1d32e98c47b3010ed323f93

    13. Re:LambdaMOO by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Espen Knudsen is a Norwegian hockey player his nickname is shampoo

    14. Re:LambdaMOO by elrous0 · · Score: 1

      Apparently, like Santa Claus, Shampoo lives mostly in our hearts. He also invented Santa Claus.

      --
      SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    15. Re:LambdaMOO by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thanks for posting this. I now love Shampoo

    16. Re:LambdaMOO by ScrewMaster · · Score: 1

      Sorry that this is off topic, but Google won't give me the answer and this meme is irritating me. Who the hell is Shampoo?

      Ah ... it's just a lot of phony crap.

      --
      The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
  5. Shot down faster than you can say prior art by genner · · Score: 4, Funny

    Lol...how many MMORPG's were out before 2000.
    Somewhere a NCsoft lawyer is praticing his layups while saying *swish*

    1. Re:Shot down faster than you can say prior art by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, there was "Neverwinter Nights" on America Online. But I don't think it meets the requirements for this patent, but it was an MMORPG. (Based on D&D, and no, this was even before AOL connected to the internet, though it certainly was a network.)

  6. Use You To Teach Them to Crack Your Computer by HermMunster · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    Heh, can't figure this one out on your own?

    You don't help them violate your privacy.

    --
    You can lead a man with reason but you can't make him think.
    1. Re:Use You To Teach Them to Crack Your Computer by Culture20 · · Score: 1

      I'm guessing Parent was meant for this story

  7. Correction... by aztektum · · Score: 5, Interesting

    It was granted in February of '07

    Anyway, this takes some gigantic balls. Granted I only read the abstract, but Ultima and Everquest were active before this shit patent was even filed.

    <melodramatic rant!>
    Only when we can throw patent examiners in prison for such gross negligence will we have true patent reform!
    </melodramatic rant!>

    --
    :: aztek ::
    No sig for you!!
    1. Re:Correction... by Tottec · · Score: 1

      It was granted in February of '07

      The patent was granted May 4th 2004 per the actual patent. Reading the patent, I would think that suing Second Life would be a better match than suing MMO games. The patent refers to shared experiences and browsing. The website for the company, worlds.com, claims they launched in 1994, which predates most, if not all, MMOs. IANAL but, like others have noted, if MMOs can be sued by this patent, then all games that are not strictly single player offline games can be sued as well.

    2. Re:Correction... by wrook · · Score: 1

      Actually, it shouldn't (I'd say can't but you never know...). The patent is for *three dimensional* networked games.

      What's bad about this patent is that it doesn't talk at all about 3D. The vast majority of the patent is talking about how to route messages to the clients (in a *very* vague way).

      This is a great example of a patent that must be struck down. There are *no* details describing how they accomplish most of the claims. And even those things that have details, they are vague. For instance, they describe how a message is sent to a specific client. They simply say that they put the avatar's name in the message. That's not a method!

    3. Re:Correction... by Dachannien · · Score: 1

      There are *no* details describing how they accomplish most of the claims.

      The enablement requirement does not require a complete step-by-step description. It merely requires sufficient instruction such as to enable one of ordinary skill in the art to make and use the invention without undue experimentation.

    4. Re:Correction... by Snotman · · Score: 1

      So, can I patent a 4D patent that includes time or a 4th dimension and then sue? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_dimension The fact that it is 3D is more an implementation detail than a novel concept. The novel concept is that multiple people interact in a virtual world like MUDs or Quake. If String Theory proves to be accurate and reality is 11D, should I send in a new patent and then sue because I was the first to send in a patent that specified 11D? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/String_theory This is stupid.

  8. The patent by Rinisari · · Score: 1

    On Google Patent Search: 7,181,690.

    IANAL. I think I can summarize the patent like this: a system which displays the player's avatar and a limited number of other players' avatar based on virtual presence, plus the server software which tells the client what to display.

    I would think that depending on the interpretation of "display", this patent could be invalidated by any text-based MUD. I could easily display the location of other players avatars, and I'm sure there's a MUD out there which could render the character's image in ASCII text.

    1. Re:The patent by Todd+Knarr · · Score: 1

      Prior art would be Conquest and similar games: 2D space-war simulators with multiple players. Central server, each player ran a client that talked to the server, players could join or leave a game and the game would add or remove their units from the universe. Display was rather primitive seeing as it ran on ASCII-text terminals connected to the computer through serial ports, but it did all the basics. The only thing it didn't do was use a cluster of servers, and see KSR Teleflex for that. Clustering was well-known even way back then, and applying the well-known principles of clustering servers to create a cluster of servers for a game falls under the heading of an obvious combination if there ever was one.

  9. Blizzard. by Thalagyrt · · Score: 4, Funny

    If only they had tried to go after Blizzard... Worlds.com would have had their patent invalidated in a very epic way, if you will. :P

    --
    Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo!
    1. Re:Blizzard. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I wish they would go after Blizzard. I hope Worlds.com drops something epic when they're looted.

    2. Re:Blizzard. by mkiwi · · Score: 2, Funny

      I didn't realize Arthas dropped this patent!

    3. Re:Blizzard. by powerspike · · Score: 1

      Ya blizzards laywer team could go on one of them rare 25 man raids :P

    4. Re:Blizzard. by sortius_nod · · Score: 2, Funny

      It's a quest item, not a drop.

    5. Re:Blizzard. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If they go after blizz, expect many a snowball, steamtonk, chain lightning to be hurled their way.

    6. Re:Blizzard. by argStyopa · · Score: 1

      I'm going to go out on a limb here and expect that there might be a 'friend of the court' brief filed by Blizzard, stating quite clearly that a certain 900lb gorilla believes this is a load of crap.

      --
      -Styopa
    7. Re:Blizzard. by Psmylie · · Score: 1
      Absolutely. Worlds.com went after someone smaller, in order to set a precedent to use against other game companies. It really all comes down to who can throw the most money at it (in terms of numbers of lawyers). Blizzard is too big for them to overwhelm now.

      What they're probably trying to win is a small amount of money per "client" installed. If they can win here, they can use that capital and the precedent to go after bigger fish. It's in Blizzard's best interest to help out the defense in this case, maybe even just pay for the entirety of it themselves to make sure it's done right.

      All I can say is, if they dare go after Hello Kitty Online, it is ON!!!

      --

      psmylie's dictionary: Godzillion (noun) Any number large enough to destroy Tokyo

    8. Re:Blizzard. by powerlord · · Score: 1

      Attention WoW players.

      A new ARG has been announced by Blizzard.

      The "evil" corporation Worlds.com is trying to destroy the "white wizards of the realm" Blizzard.

      Your job is to "get them" first.

      Any picture (digital or hard-copy) of a Worlds.com Executive or Lawyer showing them in a compromising situation, or taken post mortem, entitles the taker to an exclusive free in-game item!!!!

      We're looking forward to seeing the imaginative and inventive things you find and come up with!

      For the hoard!!!!

      [/humor]

      --
      This space for rent. All reasonable inquiries will be entertained at proprietors discretion.
    9. Re:Blizzard. by Stormy+Dragon · · Score: 1

      Blizzard's been farming 10,000,000 * $15 per month. Worlds.com doesn't want to PVP against lawyers who have equipped that much twink gear.

    10. Re:Blizzard. by ScrewMaster · · Score: 1

      If only they had tried to go after Blizzard... Worlds.com would have had their patent invalidated in a very epic way, if you will. :P

      Yeah, and it would be about the only time I'd be rooting for Blizzard's lawyers.

      --
      The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
  10. Early 90's - DIVE by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hmm... Seems like DIVE "http://sics.se/dive" did all this as early as the early to mid 90s.

  11. Obligatory IANAL but... by Draconi · · Score: 2, Informative

    Yeah, prior art?

    UO began development before the first patent was filed, was publicly demonstrated technology, and pretty much already did everything mentioned between the two patents.

    Obvious point being that UO is a 2D game - or is it? It has three directions of movement, but is merely rendered in military projection by the client. As far as the server goes, every avatar is represented by an X, Y, Z coordinate set.

    Draw shortcuts/prioritization by proximity, amount of other avatars/mobiles on screen? Yep.

    Scalable server architecture? Yep.

    Chat system? Yep.

    Stable? So much so that UO is now the longest continually running MMO.

    This isn't to mention Meridian 59, or the *other* MMO forerunners that already qualified for the title of 3D virtual world and were in public release before the first patent was filed.

    Could someone illuminate what parts of the patent are *not* prior art from the earliest MMOs?

    1. Re:Obligatory IANAL but... by witherstaff · · Score: 1

      Having read the patent summary it would appear that multiplayer games like DOOM back in '93 would count as prior art. It's graphical, your space marine is your avatar, and the server handles movement. Or better yet I recall playing multiplayer Crossfire back in '93 also.

    2. Re:Obligatory IANAL but... by DustyShadow · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Having read the patent summary

      That's your problem right there. You have to read the claims.

    3. Re:Obligatory IANAL but... by harlows_monkeys · · Score: 1

      Obvious point being that UO is a 2D game - or is it?

      I don't think it matters. Prior art doesn't have to exactly fit the patent. The test is whether or not the invention would be obvious to one skilled in the prior art. Given a 2D game that does everything in the patent except for being 3D, then applying the same techniques to a 3D game would be obvious.

  12. What a bunch of Crap! by Zymergy · · Score: 0, Troll

    I am so tired of reading about these Patent Troll turds. Let's just pile these guys in with the likes of SCO and Rambus.

    People with this mentality come from the non-branching family trees of the ones who also try to enFORCE DRM on the world.
    Isn't there a joke in here about a ship containing 1000 (Patent) Lawyers on the bottom of the ocean?...
    ('Bout time for a ship containing 1000 Patent Examiners to sink also...) Now get off my lawn!

    1. Re:What a bunch of Crap! by plover · · Score: 1

      Q: How do you stop a Patent Examiner from choking to death?
      A: Take your foot off his throat.

      --
      John
    2. Re:What a bunch of Crap! by geminidomino · · Score: 1

      Q. Why would you though?
      A. Your shoes are expensive.

  13. Are you a patent attorney? by cpu_fusion · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Because many patent attorneys are not entirely sure WTF Bilski has actually done to software patents. And "invalidate this extremely quickly" rarely happens in patent law after a patent has been granted. There are many levels of appeals, etc.

    The Bilski decision invalidated a business method patent that was so abstract it could be done in a person's head. The dicta [nonbinding precedent -- stuff unnecessary for the specific holding] of Bilski said some soothing things that made certain computer algorithms appear vulnerable.

    But really, do not overestimate Bilski. And don't forget the Supreme Court hasn't yet weighed in on whether it will deny cert to Bilski ... [at least I am not aware of any denial...]

    1. Re:Are you a patent attorney? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "... was so abstract it could be done in a person's head."

      But I can filter avatars by distance and camera angle, all in my head. I just wish the avatars would stop telling me to kill patent lawyers who post on slashdot. It's driving me crazy.

  14. Sounds a Lot Like by techsoldaten · · Score: 4, Funny

    Sounds a lot like my patent, "System and Method for Allowing People to Talk." Perhaps we should get all our lawyers together for a barbeque or something.

    M

    1. Re:Sounds a Lot Like by Mashiki · · Score: 2, Funny

      Mmm...barbeque'd lawyers.

      --
      Om, nomnomnom...
    2. Re:Sounds a Lot Like by EvilDrMike · · Score: 1

      Sounds like you are infringing my patent "System or Method" I'll get my lawyers to call your lawyers and see if we can work out some sort of crippling licensing agreement.
      EDM

    3. Re:Sounds a Lot Like by Snotman · · Score: 1

      you forgot to mention the implementation detail of "in reality."

    4. Re:Sounds a Lot Like by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "System and Method for Allowing People to Talk."

      Oh, come on! That's a silly and obvious patent. There's no way it would be granted.

      Now, if you could do the same thing "... on the Internet", you'd really have something, but somebody has probably patented that already.

    5. Re:Sounds a Lot Like by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "System and Method for Allowing People to Talk."

      -This idea was also invented by Shampoo

  15. dumb shit by LingNoi · · Score: 2, Informative

    This is the dumbest most unprofessional patent I have ever seen.

    Theres even a kids drawing in the patent.

    1. Re:dumb shit by bleh-of-the-huns · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Seriously... its people like you that give everyone else a bad name... if you have something constructive to add (yes his address and such might be useful for a reasonable campaign, if it is indeed the correct address and your not just an asshat trying to fuck with someone else...) great, but then you wish arson on the guy, it makes anything you just said totally invalid,.

      --
      I came, I conquered, I coredumped
    2. Re:dumb shit by Bidzou · · Score: 1

      This is the dumbest most unprofessional patent I have ever seen.

      Theres even a kids drawing in the patent.

      Have you noticed the titlebar? Holy shit, they have balls of steel for making an MMO on Windows 3.1!!

    3. Re:dumb shit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      uhh, that doesn't make any sense.

      If I said "water is wet and you are a retard" it does not make what I said about water invalid. You do realise that people can make a point and still be a dick right? That doesn't make a point invalid though.

      In fact, I'd argue that you're just trying to ignore the facts because you don't have a point yourself.

    4. Re:dumb shit by SupremoMan · · Score: 1

      Ahhh Penguinus Online. I played it back in the '00s, but the PvP was just not there. Worst of all people could camp your fishing spots and there was nothing you could do about it! Damn carebear MMO.

    5. Re:dumb shit by Zymergy · · Score: 1

      Actually, Leahy does have an impressive resume though: http://leahy.to/daveleahy06.html

      LOL... liked the part where he described himself in his background paragraph as "Sharper than a brass tack." We shall see...

    6. Re:dumb shit by ergo98 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Please, someone burn this fuckers house down. What an asshole.

      As satisfying as this must have been to write, it was very poorly considered (unless you are outside of the reach of US law enforcement). Free speech doesn't include declaring a target and asking people to burn their house down.

      And seriously, the whole internet witch hunt thing is seriously lame. I've seen too many of these moronic quests with a bunch of intertards chasing after often wrongly targeted people because they think it's giving them some mission in life.

      The guy wrote a patent. Big shit. He was probably some working stiff working for the man filling out his TPS patent submission, and the company was only working within the idiotic allowances provided to them by the completely retarded patent system. As the old saying goes, don't hate the player, hate the game. It is entirely true.

      Though this whole story has given me great joy remembering spending a couple of night trolling Worlds Apart or whatever they called it. It was remarkable how much you could piss people off standing between their virtual avatar and some crud avatar they are conversing with. I guess they really needed the eye contact.

    7. Re:dumb shit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't see why wishing the dudes house to be burned down invalidates the point being made. Could you explain that?

    8. Re:dumb shit by LingNoi · · Score: 1

      The guy wrote a patent. Big shit.

      He filed a patent on what he knew was prior art. At worse it was a seriously unethical thing to do, however you seem to think that it's ok because he was part of a big company therefore he's not responsible.

      Just because he "got away with it" due to the naivety of the patent office doesn't make it any less wrong what he has done.

      The first step to changing the software patent system is to punish the writers of these troll patents. People will think twice before ruining their creditability by trying to get a patent on prior art.

    9. Re:dumb shit by keatonguy · · Score: 1

      Hm, the interface looks almost identical to Furcadia, save for the true 3D world.

      --
      If you aren't angry, you aren't paying attention.
    10. Re:dumb shit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I sense an upcoming lawsuit from Pokey the Penguin.

    11. Re:dumb shit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Based on that drawing, I think they were just trying to make a fancy chat tool. Now they are trying to translate that to an MMO? What a bunch of shit heads.

    12. Re:dumb shit by xmundt · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Greetings and Salutations...
                Well, while the patent app may show penguins, I remember being really impressed by the World's Chat environment. I spent WAY too much time wandering around there, and created some pretty spiffy 3d avatars. I thought it was quite a shame when they decided to pull the plug on the free version, and go to a full subscription model. As I suspected, a vast majority of folks simply bailed out from it and went away.
                However, in terms of the environment, it was quite flexible, and, had a bunch of interesting rooms, mazes, and generally slick toys. One of the better bits was that one could find the cracks in the station walls, and actually escape to the outside to look around. Could not get to the planet below, but, could fly around the station, etc.
                Another innovative thing that made it more impressive was that it was designed to minimize data traffic between the server and the clients, only downloading changed data in small bits during pauses, etc. The main program for displaying the environment ran on the local client. This meant that even over a fairly slow (9800 baud or so) dialup, the connection was usable, and, at 56k it was down-right speedy.
                They seemed to be trying to move into what they thought was a tele-presence field, marketed to companies. Apparently that did not work that well. I can see, though, that, depending on where they are at now, it could work well for a gaming environment. It would work better, I suspect, if there were data gloves and an affordable VR helmet that would provide more of an immersive experience. But, then, that would be true of MOST first person, 3d shooters these days, wouldn't it?
                Regards
                Dave Mundt

      --
      YAB - http://blog.beemandave.com/
    13. Re:dumb shit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So your plan is to make it a crime to file bad patents? That's brilliant.

      No wait. That's really stupid. Wouldn't it make more sense to improve the patent approval process? Otherwise, you are just piling more lawyers on the problem to counter the broken lawyers underneath.

      Think about it.

    14. Re:dumb shit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The person who wrote this probably has nothing to do with the kinds of minds who decided that the patent and the lawsuits that followed it was a good idea. He probably punched the clock just like you and I.

      So if people follow your lead this poor guy is going to suffer and have no real idea why.

      This kind of limp wristed vengeance reminds me of the kinds of fucktards who get laid off their job and go back and kill their foreman who makes 12 dollars an hour. It wasn't the foreman's fault that lay offs were happening and now the wrong guy is laying in a puddle of blood. A moron, like you, is going to prison to live off my tax dollars for the rest of his life. The guys at the top who really screwed him over are off at home drinking vodka and tonics and thanking god they got out alive.

      Good job, bitch.

    15. Re:dumb shit by Zorque · · Score: 1

      Fig. 5: penguins.

    16. Re:dumb shit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      While I disagree with the burning down the house part, parent is spot on. I'm sick to death of people performing morally reprehensible actions and hiding behind "the company" or "the job" as they do.

      Everybody has choices about what they do. If your job makes you take morally repugnant actions and you comply, and continue to stay in that job, YOU are morally repugnant.

      And no, 'I have a family/mortgage/car payment/hooker addiction' etc doesn't save you and doesn't make you even a little bit right, or what you do even a little bit okay. It is still your choice, so enough with the excuses. Take responsibility for what you have done and who you are.

      Companies are made of people. If people didn't have poor ethics, companies wouldn't either.

      It's even worse that they're going after NCSoft, who are facing real dificulties right now. On that note, I hope this vile, wretched, blood-sucking, shit eating company is put out of business for good.

    17. Re:dumb shit by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      I used to agree with you. But then I realized that the people who utilize the loopholes in the law and their position of privilege to abuse others simply to make money are evil. As in, their actions (needless capitalism) both directly contribute to the destruction of the biosphere upon which we depend but also anger, frustrate, and even deprive a few, dozens, hundreds, thousands, millions, billions of others. When someone files a bogus patent on one end, and a bunch of people get a bunch of money they don't deserve, the other end of the transaction leads to people experiencing real harm simply because someone is a greedy, unscrupulous asshole. This doesn't mean I support harming them in return - a blind and toothless world is not what we're going for here, nor blind and handless. But on the other hand, allowing these people to retain their ill-gotten gains is only rewarding bad behavior and it is clear that the court system is not responsive to the will of the people, and it cannot be fixed since the government is not either. It has been taken out of our hands. I see no reason to be excessively choked up over the legal or even traditional definitions of right and wrong. They are not serving us particularly well today.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    18. Re:dumb shit by CFBMoo1 · · Score: 1

      This is the dumbest most unprofessional patent I have ever seen.

      Theres even a kids drawing in the patent.

      That isn't a kids drawing, that is actually a good drawing of what it looked like back in the day. I remember logging in to there long ago.

      --
      ~~ Behold the flying cow with a rail gun! ~~
    19. Re:dumb shit by ScrewMaster · · Score: 1

      I see no reason to be excessively choked up over the legal or even traditional definitions of right and wrong. They are not serving us particularly well today.

      The patent system goes to the heart of how our economy progresses, and whether (or not!) it continues to serve our interests. People that abuse it do cause real, lasting damage to our society. Yes, Congress, that includes you.

      An eye for an eye, a house for a house ... Hammurabi was a prophet.

      --
      The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
    20. Re:dumb shit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Free speech doesn't include declaring a target and asking people to burn their house down.

      Actually, in the United States, it does. To whit:

      the constitutional guarantees of free speech and free press do not permit a State to forbid or proscribe advocacy of the use of force or of law violation except where such advocacy is directed to inciting or producing imminent lawless action and is likely to incite or produce such action.

      In short, you can stand on a soapbox and tell everyone to drown their neighbor, so long as no one is actually likely to do it. Wasn't someone yesterday complaining that the U.S. wasn't all that free?

    21. Re:dumb shit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Are you a fucking idiot? The guy wrote the patent!

      If he knew he was doing something wrong refuse to do it. If he thought it was a good idea then he's an asshole either way he did wrong.

      "Just doing my job" is NEVER an excuse. It's what lead to nazi death camps in world war two. Stop being an asshole yes man and grow a backbone.

  16. What about all the other little kids? by lordSaurontheGreat · · Score: 1

    What about all the other little boys and girls that never got sued this Christmas?

    EVE Online
    Second Life
    Diablo
    Hellgate: London

    Furthermore, I feel somewhat constrained to point out that they're suing over the "scalable virtual world" patent. World of Warcraft is anything but scalable! There are so many shards - more than 1,500 in North America alone by last count - that it's not as much scalable as it is "add another server Bob, they're lagging again and we need to put the newcomers on another shard!"

    Of course, two sufficiently incompetent lawyers could conceivably argue their way into inventing the Internet from this starting topic, but you get my point.

    --
    Consider yourself spoken to.
    1. Re:What about all the other little kids? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      wow is for fags and people who steal their user names off of tolkien should be ashamed of themselves.

    2. Re:What about all the other little kids? by MoriaOrc · · Score: 1

      people who steal their user names off of tolkien should be ashamed of themselves.

      Hey! I resemble that remark!

  17. System and Method for Enabling Users... by JeanBaptiste · · Score: 1

    "System and Method for Enabling Users to Interact in a Virtual Space"

    I'd say this predates the computer... tabletop wargames have been played at least since the 1700s in order to model military strategy. and i'm sure there's probably older examples that would fit that tagline.

  18. Patent fails the test. by WarJolt · · Score: 2, Informative

    The Supreme Court, however, has enunciated a definitive test to determine
    whether a process claim is tailored narrowly enough to encompass only a particular
    application of a fundamental principle rather than to pre-empt the principle itself. A
    claimed process is surely patent-eligible under  101 if: (1) it is tied to a particular
    machine or apparatus, or (2) it transforms a particular article into a different state or
    thing.

    http://ipwatchdog.com/cases/bilski.pdf

    Lets all work to invalidate frivolous software patents.

    1. Re:Patent fails the test. by Kindaian · · Score: 1

      Why?

      I do believe that is the job for the patent office.

      After all they already have received payment for it! ;)

  19. It is a continuation of a 1996 patent application by cpu_fusion · · Score: 2, Informative

    ... and you'll need to wade your way through 35 USC s102 and related case law to know whether alleged prior art defeated the novelty of this patent.

    It's a crappy patent -- I hate it, it's lame, and I think it is pretty damn obvious and does not advance the art -- but as to whether there is prior art, that's another story.

    [*Disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer, but I am a law student.]

  20. Why they chose NCSoft by WiiVault · · Score: 2, Insightful

    NCSoft has been in a lot of trouble lately, with the recent loss of their founder, and closing T-Rasa. The company seems to be in some sort of free fall. These vultures are simply targeting the weakest in the pack, hoping to gain a few quick bucks before going after the big guys.

    1. Re:Why they chose NCSoft by Eskarel · · Score: 2, Insightful

      They chose NCSoft because their alternatives are Sony who probably have an entire building full of high priced land sharks avaiable for their defense, or going after WoW which generates enough revenue to purchase a couple of congress critters.

      Patent trolling either company isn't for the faint of heart and you'd have to be damned sure you had a convincing case to try either.

      NCSoft by comparison was one of the weakest of the pack(not in terms of quality of MMO's or anything like that, merely in terms of how suicidal it would be to sue them) well before their recent troubles.

    2. Re:Why they chose NCSoft by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't forget: they're probably hoping to establish precedent with a weak opponent before going after the 800lb gorillas of MMO games.

    3. Re:Why they chose NCSoft by powerspike · · Score: 1

      While True, you might find the big players might pitch in, to stop predent from kicking in, no matter how big you are, that stuff is tocix...

    4. Re:Why they chose NCSoft by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are aware that you are talking about NCSoft's US division, while NCSoft Korea (the mother company which developed games like Lineage and Lineage II) is still doing EXTREMELY well, with subscriber numbers for their online games which are second only to WoW?

    5. Re:Why they chose NCSoft by Eskarel · · Score: 1

      That would be the ideal situation for everyone concerned(except the patent troll).

    6. Re:Why they chose NCSoft by Qzukk · · Score: 1

      you might find the big players might pitch in

      Such pitching in would almost certainly appear to us in the same way that Microsoft "pitched in" for SCO. I suspect that at the moment, the respective CEOs are weighing the cost of licensing versus the prospect that their licensing fees will be used to fund the destruction of their competitors.

      --
      If I have been able to see further than others, it is because I bought a pair of binoculars.
    7. Re:Why they chose NCSoft by Eskarel · · Score: 1
      Doubtful, something like this is just too dangerous. World of Warcraft generates subscription fees from 10 million subscribers, even if they're offering licensing at a pittance now, letting this patent stand subjects them to tremendous risk. Sony has a whole bunch of MMOs and wants to continue to produce them, again the risk inherent in this is too high.

      Realistically what the CEOs are contemplating is whether a license agreement from NCSoft will screw them, and whether NCSoft can fight these vultures off on their own. They won't want to shell out cash if they can help it, but the potential risks are far too high.

    8. Re:Why they chose NCSoft by TrancePhreak · · Score: 1

      I bet Home falls under this patent as well. That'd sure put them in a sticky situation.

      --

      -]Phreak Out[-
    9. Re:Why they chose NCSoft by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      NCSoft America might be in financial trouble. Their Korean division has seen steady gains on the Korean stock market since October. They continue to be the number 1 MMORPG provider in Korea, and their upcoming title ``Aion'' has tons of hype here and is predicted to be the biggest seller since Lineage.
      posting anon to preserve moderation...

    10. Re:Why they chose NCSoft by evilkasper · · Score: 1

      NCsoft may be small in the US but in Korea they are huge, I wouldn't exactly call them weak.

    11. Re:Why they chose NCSoft by Clandestine_Blaze · · Score: 1

      Wouldn't it benefit companies such as Sony or Blizzard to come to the defense of NCSoft? If they allow these vultures to consume NCSoft in what appears to be a patent-troll, then it only builds Worlds.com's case. However, if they actually put forth some resources, such as their own attorneys, they could get this quashed before it gains any momentum.

      This is just a serious question as I know nothing about the world of patent lawsuits. Is one company allowed to help defend another in a case like this?

    12. Re:Why they chose NCSoft by qcubed · · Score: 1

      Richard Garriot wasn't a founder. They hired him to open up NC-Austin in 2000 or so, but they published their first MMO, Lineage, in Korea in the late '90s. (For a while, it was one of the largest, in terms of subscribers).

    13. Re:Why they chose NCSoft by rochrist · · Score: 1

      I haven't seen any reference to NCSoft losing their founder? You don't mean Richard Garriot I trust, since he was just an employee, and not that important an employee at that.

  21. i should sue obama by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    over my patent of playing the race card to win an election.

  22. Prior art from 1979 by Attaturk · · Score: 2, Informative

    And the first text-based multiplayer virtual world was created in 1978/1979 by Messrs Bartle and Trubshaw. I thought everyone knew that bit of lore by now.

  23. EQ might be better than UO for this one. . . by JSBiff · · Score: 5, Informative

    If you look at the link to the actual patent, and begin reading the claims, this does not apply to the (original version of) Ultima Online, or to text muds, because the patent specifically describes a 3-dimensional graphical world as being part of the claims. UO is (or at least was, last time I played it around 2001 or 2002) 2-dimensional. Right about the time I was leaving, they introduced an expansion called Third-Dawn, which still didn't make the world truly 3D, but it did make player avatars and monsters 3D, IIRC.

    EQ, as I recall, was true 3D (I only played a trial account for like 10 days once, so my memories are rather vague), so it might be a good candidate for prior art.

    It should be noted that the patent does not appear to cover (I don't know for sure; I'm not a lawyer), the idea of a 3D MMO, per se, but rather a few necessary client rendering techniques (which, in reality, almost any 3D MMO would be likely to employ) for determining what other users' avatars should be displayed by the client. It appears the idea they are trying to patent is that, in a 3D world, when you turn the camera to look a given direction, you should only see some avatars, and not others (that is, only the ones in your field of view). Additionally, if there are a lot of avatars, this patent claims protection for the idea that the client can implement a maximum number of avatars to display, and to use the knowledge of the maximum number to display, combined with the position information, to determine some subset of the avatars to display (presumably the X nearest avatars, where X is the maximum number to display, though the patent doesn't specify this explicitly).

    I'd be shocked if EQ and Meridian59 didn't both do these things several years before this patent app was filed.

    I'd also like to point out, that the patent doesn't specify 'camera orientation' or 'client view orientation' (even though that appears to be what they are trying to cover), but rather 'avatar orientation' (which suggests to me that this patent would only apply to MMOGs where the camera orientation is locked to the avatar orientation). Based on my 3+ years of playing CoH, I can tell you that the CoH client doesn't determine which other avatars to show on screen based on the orientation of my avatar - I can spin the camera freely to point in any direction, even look completely backwards from the direction my avatar is facing, so I suspect that NCSoft could claim that as a defense, if they had to.

    Also, I think they could, maybe, make a defense against claim 6 (I'm not sure though):

    6. A method for enabling a plurality of users to interact in a virtual space, wherein each user has a computer associated therewith, wherein each computer has a client process associated therewith, wherein each client process has an avatar associated therewith, and wherein each client process is in communication with a server process, comprising:

    (a) monitoring, by each client process, a position of the avatar associated with the client process;

    (b) transmitting, by each client process to the server process, the position of the avatar associated with the client process;

    (c) transmitting, by the server process to each client process, the positions of less than all of the avatars that are not associated with the client process; and

    (d) determining from the positions transmitted in step (c), by each client process, a set of the avatars that are to be displayed.

    Now, I could be wrong here, but I thought most client/server 3D game protocols do *not* have the clients transmit the position of the avatar to the server, which is part (b)? Don't the servers already know the position of the avatar, and the clients just send a vector, that is, a request to move a certain number of units in a particular direction, at which point the server calculates a new position from the original posti

    1. Re:EQ might be better than UO for this one. . . by powerspike · · Score: 1

      It might sound stupid, but from how you explained, it, any 3d game online would fall under this. If that is the case, what about Duke 3D and Quake 1, they are 3d, multiplayer, and your in a gaming world, and when you have 16-24 players in a game it would meet most if not all of the items in the patent ?

      I would expect that in the early games, that it would of transmitted the characters position to the server (i know everquest 1 did for that matter - there was a massive exploit based off it).

    2. Re:EQ might be better than UO for this one. . . by thePowerOfGrayskull · · Score: 1

      ow, I could be wrong here, but I thought most client/server 3D game protocols do *not* have the clients transmit the position of the avatar to the server, which is part (b)? Don't the servers already know the position of the avatar, and the clients just send a vector, that is, a request to move a certain number of units in a particular direction, at which point the server calculates a new position from the original postion + the vector?

      Generally correct. In cases where the client allows movement by mouse, the client may send to the server where it /wishes/ to be. Still not the same as described in (b).

    3. Re:EQ might be better than UO for this one. . . by Creepy · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I've seen several parts of the patent that are not applicable to certain games or have prior art.

        Article 4 about determining the subset of avatars to display would absolutely not apply to Dungeon Runners or Guild Wars, which are instanced. I can't remember how Dungeon Runners did towns (I played it all of 2 hours), but GW has district maximums to never overload towns and thus never needs to use nearness to display avatars.

      Patent filing is 2000, NCSoft's own Lineage was released in 1998 and is 2D (Lineage II was 2003 and true 3D).

      The Realm and Meridian 59 both were true 3D and predate this patent. Several other non MMORPGs that were also 3D and had an online component also predate this patent, but don't have the nearby limiting display issue.

      And yes, as parent stated, clients aren't trusted in MMORPGs, so the server handles all movement and momentum, however, I did see source for one (FOSS MMORPG) 'hint' about where the client thought it was to deal with lag issues (which may be patent infringing). From the games I've played, however, that is not the norm and you rubber band to wherever the server thinks you are. Incidentally, most I've seen wouldn't trust a game to pass a vector - just a direction and a mapping of keys and buttons. Server handles velocity and momentum as well as absolute position.

    4. Re:EQ might be better than UO for this one. . . by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      Technically UO was always 3d, the client only presented a single perspective. There is a Z component to all avatar positions, and it is possible for one object to be physically above another.

    5. Re:EQ might be better than UO for this one. . . by jdludlow · · Score: 1

      It appears the idea they are trying to patent is that, in a 3D world, when you turn the camera to look a given direction, you should only see some avatars, and not others (that is, only the ones in your field of view). Additionally, if there are a lot of avatars, this patent claims protection for the idea that the client can implement a maximum number of avatars to display, and to use the knowledge of the maximum number to display, combined with the position information, to determine some subset of the avatars to display (presumably the X nearest avatars, where X is the maximum number to display, though the patent doesn't specify this explicitly).

      Neal Stephenson covered this in 1992 in Snow Crash when he described the behavior of avatars in the Metaverse (the 3D virtual world in the novel). In large crowds the clients would typically display other avatars as ghosts to cut down on rendering time and to avoid avatar collisions.

    6. Re:EQ might be better than UO for this one. . . by Fluffeh · · Score: 5, Informative
      *cracks knuckles*

      Being an avid MMO player from UO to current, as well as being a 3D developer on the Unreal Engine, I can make for some useful input here.

      The original UO was indeed a 2D isometric client. Third Dawn brought 3D aspects to the game, though the world was still rendered in isometric view. It just looked more 3Dish. There were however mods/ports to UO that rendered a 3D world! They were buggy as heck though, but you could (in theory) play in the UO world with a 3D client. (Though it was a third party client).

      Now, EQ was a true 3D world. No if's or but's about it.

      The whole bit about the number of avatars to display, that's more really related to engine/hardware performance. Basically, when developing an environment developers need to look at polygons on a screen. This is one of the main restricting factors in developing a world. The more polygons a graphics card has to render, the longer it takes. It's not the only thing, but at the time that this patent was filed, it was certainly one of the most important things.

      Now, avatars in a game generally have a much much higher polygon count than the environment around them, so naturally restricting the number shown might be very beneficial to rendering a game world nicely, however, soon after this patent was originally filed, a bright spark came up with the idea of not removing entire actors, but adding a LOD factor into models. Basically, it means that the further something is away from the camera, the less polygons it will use. This can also be ingeniously used to reduce the polygons per actor/model in the camera view if the number starts getting too high.

      To use the obligatory car analogy, if I want to limit my game engine to displaying 100 polygons on the screen at a time, I can render a car with 100 polygons, but also allow the code to reduce these polygons to 50 if a second car comes onto the screen. Should I need to have 10 cars on the screen at once, they would each be reduced to 10 polygons.

      Don't the servers already know the position of the avatar, and the clients just send a vector, that is, a request to move a certain number of units in a particular direction, at which point the server calculates a new position from the original postion + the vector?

      The section you write about actors and client/server relative positions is sort of right. It's not far off anyhow. Here is how things work in just about all client/server applications now.

      The server sets the original position to the client - when a new level loads for example. The the client sends data as to where it wants to go and both the server and client move the character around. Now, due to a number of factors such as latency, packet loss as well as a number of others, the two locations will become out of sync. However, rather than the server being updated with the client's location, what happens is that the client is updated with the server's location of where it things the character is. This sometimes leads to what is known as the "slingshot effect" where characters (or other actors) suddenly update in the client view and appear to slingshot around the screen to catch up. A notable exception to this rule is World of Warcraft, which does actually have servers that will quite happily allow a character anywhere in the world that the client lets them get. This has resulted in some rather funny "exploits" where people altered their clients and walked past mobs to get to the final boss in an instance and then just started attacking it. This may have been fixed in one of the expansions however. While I am not entirely sure, I think that D&D Online may have also suffered from the client updating the server with actor locations, as I recall there was a considerable number of movement hacks and exploits in that game.

      --
      Moved to http://soylentnews.org/. You are invited to join us too!
    7. Re:EQ might be better than UO for this one. . . by EvilIdler · · Score: 1

      The bit about hiding models you aren't looking at is bloody prior art in every real 3D game before, anyway. It's an obvious optimisation technique!

      This is just like computer patents taken to the next level. When there is prior art in the real world, you add "on a computer" to the patent description. Next step would be "on the Internet" when that isn't enough.

      What will the next thing be - a patent application for "online rendering of blue models"?

    8. Re:EQ might be better than UO for this one. . . by Chaos+Incarnate · · Score: 1

      Not necessarily--I don't think that most games implement fallout of excess avatars. (Especially shooters.) Both because that's unfair to players to do with their enemies, and because they have a fairly limited scope of the number of avatars that can be present on screen anyways.

      --
      Benford's Corollary to Clarke's Law: "Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced."
    9. Re:EQ might be better than UO for this one. . . by Speare · · Score: 1

      FYI, the Meridian 59 server-side architecture was a single machine serving the whole "world." It did not attempt to scale to multiple machines at all. If any avatars were in the same "room" as yours, even if invisible, then your client knew about it. The entire world state was in one file, which was rewritten (and garbage-collected) every N minutes. It was incredibly simple and simplistic. But it was 3D.

      --
      [ .sig file not found ]
    10. Re:EQ might be better than UO for this one. . . by Siberwulf · · Score: 1

      Some games *used* to let the client dictate the game state (position) but that leads to all sorts of fun/nasty things like speedhacks, wallhacks, etc.

    11. Re:EQ might be better than UO for this one. . . by dougisfunny · · Score: 2, Insightful

      would "draw distance" be considered fallout of excess avatars?

      --
      This is not the funny you're looking for.
    12. Re:EQ might be better than UO for this one. . . by SanityInAnarchy · · Score: 1

      Now, I could be wrong here, but I thought most client/server 3D game protocols do *not* have the clients transmit the position of the avatar to the server, which is part (b)? Don't the servers already know the position of the avatar, and the clients just send a vector, that is, a request to move a certain number of units in a particular direction, at which point the server calculates a new position from the original postion + the vector?

      I would guess it depends on the game. I imagine in some games it might make sense to instead have the client transmit updated coordinates, and have the server calculate the vector and determine if it's an allowed vector. I'm also guessing that's more work for the server -- but I haven't done any of the math.

      --
      Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
    13. Re:EQ might be better than UO for this one. . . by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Myst by Broderbund?

    14. Re:EQ might be better than UO for this one. . . by arth1 · · Score: 1

      It appears the idea they are trying to patent is that, in a 3D world, when you turn the camera to look a given direction, you should only see some avatars, and not others (that is, only the ones in your field of view).

      Or, shorter, FPMMO.

    15. Re:EQ might be better than UO for this one. . . by Drakkenmensch · · Score: 1

      Now, I could be wrong here, but I thought most client/server 3D game protocols do *not* have the clients transmit the position of the avatar to the server, which is part (b)? Don't the servers already know the position of the avatar, and the clients just send a vector, that is, a request to move a certain number of units in a particular direction, at which point the server calculates a new position from the original postion + the vector? I don't know if that is what CoH does, but I suspect that is the case (the only exception might be for the 'teleport' powers; teleportation, I suspect, basically works on an explicit location basis, so there might be some wiggle-room for Worlds.com to make a claim there, although I think a lawyer could argue that teleportation, when activated, is not the client transmitting the avatar's actual location, but instead a location which the server should move the avatar too, which might be different enough to be a handy loophole).

      Prior art is easy to find - look at ANY multiplayer online shooter. Doom alone locks the case and throws it out for public ridicule.

    16. Re:EQ might be better than UO for this one. . . by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      If you look at the link to the actual patent, and begin reading the claims, this does not apply to the (original version of) Ultima Online, or to text muds, because the patent specifically describes a 3-dimensional graphical world as being part of the claims.

      So it's basically like one of those "on the internet" patents, except it's an "in 3-d" patent. (Nature trail to hell...)

      Now, I could be wrong here, but I thought most client/server 3D game protocols do *not* have the clients transmit the position of the avatar to the server

      I'm the wrong guy to ask from a technical standpoint, but from what I can tell this was common practice especially in older games. You did whatever you did, and your client's physics engine handled the calculations of what you were doing, and the game server MAY have some method to figure out if you're cheating. I mean, if you were right then how would all the cheats in Half-Life (cheaterstrike yay!) or for that matter in UT (having watched people swim through the open air in Tactical Ops, although that does make them easy sniper targets...) work? I'm pretty sure that SOP is to let the client tell you what you're doing, which is why cheating is even possible. It's necessary because even those without enough bandwidth have too much latency to just receive geometry from the server, not to mention the degree to which it would increase the server requirements.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    17. Re:EQ might be better than UO for this one. . . by Hythlodaeus · · Score: 1

      UO did in fact implement a "3D world". Characters and interactive objects were sprites, but had XYZ coordinates in 3D space. Terrain was software-rendered polygons.

      --
      For great justice.
    18. Re:EQ might be better than UO for this one. . . by ArtemaOne · · Score: 1

      I played UO for a few years and even before the expansion to allow 3D rendering, I was able to go up, down, left right, forwards, backwards. That's not two dimensions, that's three.

    19. Re:EQ might be better than UO for this one. . . by Creepy · · Score: 1

      If you just read the abstract it sounds like it applies to shooters, but if you read the Claims, it talks about removing avatars that are far away from your avatar and I don't believe that is the norm for shooters (maybe the in dev Huxley...) - at worst you have a reduction in detail.

      Most multiplayer online shooters are not scalable - you have a fixed number of clients allowed to connect to any server so you never have to remove avatars, even if you have them all in one small area (room). Most do have some sort of Level of Detail reduction, but it doesn't sound like this patent addresses this.

    20. Re:EQ might be better than UO for this one. . . by stephanruby · · Score: 1

      Just wait until games go 4-D, I've got all the patents on 4-D, 5-D, and 6-D games.

    21. Re:EQ might be better than UO for this one. . . by Kaenneth · · Score: 1

      Based upon the cheats available in Everquest, it did not use such filtering.

      ShowEQ would sniff EQ's network stream and display a map with every movable object (mob) in the zone, along with all their stats, models for visible equipment etc. Other cheats would allow players to instantly teleport around a zone.

      (They even had a bug for months where players could randomly get assigned other players stats upon entering a zone, because they didn't zero out empty slots when a previous player left a zone.

      Anti-cheat was manually enforced by human GM's, which was utterly unscalable (plus, the GM's were usually idiots, compared to what an automated system could do, after waiting 4-8 hours for help).)

      I would like to say that Prior art shouldn't matter, that it's obvious to anyone 'skilled in the art' that you don't trust a client running on the user machine in a network application if you want any security... but, based on all the security flaws out there, it apperently isn't so obvious.

      But it's also like a patent for locking your doors when you leave the house. you can't patent security, but a particular type of lock could be.

      Does the patent describe the exact 'method and apparatus' used to do the filtering? When I first found out about EQ's lax filtering I thought of a simple distance filter (DX^2 + DY^2 R^2, for a circular radius) but squaring seemed less scalable than simple comparison, such as (MAX(ABS(DX),ABS(DY) R), for a square area, or ((ABS(DX) + ABS(DY)) R) for a diamond shaped one (aka Manhattan distance) (the diamond one would be an add and compare, vs. two compares for the rectangle, possibly affecting CPU branch prediction, which when looping through hundreds of players and thousands of objects might add up). As for viewing angle, a 3rd person camera was allowed (female elf rears...) plus, with mouse-look, a player can make a 180 degreee turn in a single frame, so direction based filtering wouldn't be very useful.

      Later on EQ did start filtering some data, last I recall a client would get a full snapshot upon entering the zone, but from then on would only get changes for objects near them, and only when they changed direction of travel (that is, the client would appear to be told that 'Bob the orc' was moving west at 5 MPH, until the server said otherwise... unfortunetly, the client-side (players) couldn't walk through 'solid' objects, like trees, building walls, 1000 foot cliffs, etc. while on the server, MOBs didn't collide with world geometry, or each other (meaning what appears to be 1 orc, could actually be 20 of them stacked in the same space, using the exact same animations... and while they appear (or rather don't appear, because the client can't 'see' them) on the other side of a wall, they are in fact gang-raping your cute lil elf rear on the server side, which you'll discover when you start zoning on death, which took up to 5 minutes (because if it takes more than whatever time limit, you'll time-out from the server, and have to start the login process again, and by being disconnected you lose your party slot, which you can only rejoin once you are back in the zone with the rest of the party, and you have to remember if the Cleric in the group was 'Drizztt', 'Drezt', 'Drrizt', 'Drizt', or 'Drizzzttte' to send him a tell to rez you.)

      (I was thinking about logging into EQ again over this last month... but now that I've really thought about it, no eff'n way.)

    22. Re:EQ might be better than UO for this one. . . by ToasterMonkey · · Score: 1

      (c) transmitting, by the server process to each client process, the positions of less than all of the avatars that are not associated with the client process; and

      Not necessarily--I don't think that most games implement fallout of excess avatars. (Especially shooters.) Both because that's unfair to players to do with their enemies, and because they have a fairly limited scope of the number of avatars that can be present on screen anyways.

      It just says less than all avatars. Like, only the ones in front of and within a certain distance (like other poster said), or only avatars in same building you are. Even in an MMO, you don't want to be in a position where avatars you SHOULD see can't be displayed right?

      QuakeWorld certainly did send every single player location to each client, regardless of location or visibility, but that may have been changed after it was open sourced. OTOH, I'm fairly certain that Starsiege Tribes, published in '98, was heavily optimized for modem connections, and sent only player data from the same indoor structure you were in unless they (or you) stood near the doorway. Maybe someone more familiar with the technology in that game could correct me if I'm wrong.

  24. boycott by iphorde · · Score: 1

    If this is how game companies are going to act I call for a full out boycott of Worlds.com.

  25. Re:hey guys by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    You hate them, but you want them to perform an intimate sexual act on you. You sir, have a conflicted personality and should seek professional help.

  26. city of heroes architect by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    city of heroes mission architect is what is infringing.

  27. Re:Prior Art? - WTH? by JSBiff · · Score: 2, Interesting

    NCSoft has Lineage and Lineage II which, though not very popular in the US, I believe are very popular in Korea (which is where NCSoft started). As the other poster in this thread commented, the City of Heroes/City of Villains game, as far as I know, is still quite popular and is making money. Sure, Tabula Rasa is being shut down, but where are you getting the idea that the whole company is going bankrupt?

  28. Correction to your Correction by cpu_fusion · · Score: 4, Informative

    From the patent itself: Related U.S. Application Data
    (63) Continuation of application No. 08/747,420, filed on Nov. 12, 1996, now Pat. No. 6,219,045.

    Now educate yourself on continuing patents:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuing_patent_application

    Now look at the dates for release of Ultima Online and Everquest:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultima_online
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Everquest

    People on Slashdot discussing the Law sound as informed as your average senior citizen would sound on here discussing tech. "I PUT THE ETHERNET INTO THE HARD DRIVE WHY DOESN'T MY AOL WORK?!"

    There's a reason why people spend three years of their life in law school. It's not for their health.

    1. Re:Correction to your Correction by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      CONTINUED = invalidated if the state of the art eclipses the parts they add in the continuation.

      Not to mention the "obviousness" etc to practitioners, etc.

      Patent clerk was an idiot on this one, and patent law (with the continuation crap) allowed it to be abused.

    2. Re:Correction to your Correction by DustyShadow · · Score: 4, Informative

      CONTINUED = invalidated if the state of the art eclipses the parts they add in the continuation.

      Sure but what you are discussing is called a "continuation-in-part" which is a continuation that adds new material to the old patent that isn't supported by the original specification. Continuations in part are tricky because they have two priority dates associated with them. A regular continuation is when the patentee claims different things that are supported by the original specification.

      Reread this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuing_patent_application

    3. Re:Correction to your Correction by aztektum · · Score: 1

      Touche. I may have noticed that if I'd simply read it all. As it were, I was on my way out of the office so I was going on the summary.

      Speaking of AOL: How funny would it be if AOL ended up saving the day assuming the ORIG NWN could be held up as prior art.

      As an aside, it was rather nice of them to sit on their shit while the market matured. I'd LOVE to see them go after ActiBlizzard. The money they have to spend would shatter. Yet another reason why the patent system is fsckd.

      --
      :: aztek ::
      No sig for you!!
    4. Re:Correction to your Correction by novalogic · · Score: 1

      Curious to know what the original concept/production dates are of Ultima and EQ. Release dates are not the dates that the ideas were thought up or put to paper.

      --
      --
    5. Re:Correction to your Correction by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      http://web.archive.org/web/19980110205504/http://blaxxun.com/

      blaxxun made a VRML chatroom thing, and appear to have been going in 1995

    6. Re:Correction to your Correction by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And we are really figged if we need to pay a lawyer by the hour or spend 3 years at law school just to write code or understand the laws we are required to comply with.

      Q) What incentive does a lawyer have to give advise that will minimize billable hours?

      A) None. Always advise a course of action that maximizes billable hours.

      Lawyers please Frick off.

      And what makes them more qualified to tell if SOFTWARE is novel or inventive. Did they spend 3+ years studying CS?

    7. Re:Correction to your Correction by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Also consider....

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meridian_59

    8. Re:Correction to your Correction by Clandestine_Blaze · · Score: 1

      Now look at the dates for release of Ultima Online and Everquest:
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultima_online
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Everquest

      Just for my own education, does release date really matter for prior art? Wouldn't the more important date be when UO and Everquest were dreamed up on paper, or when some technical and functional documents were written up, or even some early builds?

      So to make my question easier, is prior art established only when the product is released?

      Wikipedia's definition of Prior Art states:

      Prior art (also known as state of the art, which also has other meanings), in most systems of patent law,[1] constitutes all information that has been made available to the public in any form before a given date that might be relevant to a patent's claims of originality. If an invention has been described in prior art, a patent on that invention is not valid.

      However, I wanted more details and took a look at a page titled What is Prior Art? by IP Watchdog, and they state this:

      Now comes the curve ball you have probably been expecting. Not all references, knowledge or events that can demonstrate that an invention is "old" or already known can be used by examiners or during litigation against an invention. This is where the whole definition of prior art takes a turn toward an Abbott and Costello routine. Before we go to far down this path lets set some definitive rules:

      * If the invention in question was described in a patent issued anywhere in the world prior to the patent applicant inventing it, then no patent can be obtained.

      * If the invention in question was described in a printed publication published anywhere in the world prior to the patent applicant inventing it, then no patent can be obtained.

      * If the invention were publicly known in the US, but not necessarily patented or published, prior to the patent applicant inventing it, then no patent can be obtained.

      In each of these three cases we would say that the earlier reference of knowledge is prior art that prevents a patent from now issuing.

      Now some more rules:

      * If the invention in question was described in a patent issued anywhere in the world more than 12 months prior to a US application being filed, then no patent can be obtained.

      * If the invention in question was described in a printed publication published anywhere in the world more than 12 months prior to a US application being filed, then no patent can be obtained.

      * If the invention in question was publicly used in the US more than 12 months prior to a US application being filed, then no patent can be obtained.

      * If the device, machine or compound in question was offered for sale in the US more than 12 months prior to a US application being filed, then no patent can be obtained.

      In each of these three cases we would also say that the earlier reference, knowledge or event is prior art that prevents a patent from now issuing, but this time not because the invention was not new, but rather because an application was made in the US too late!

      Sorry for the long quote. It almost seems like prior art would only exist if it were public knowledge, and of course with more than 12 months of usage or knowledge being key. So it sounds like if I have a product under development, but with no released publications to the outside world, that it couldn't be considered prior art ?

      I could just be totally missing the point, but thanks for taking the time anyway.

    9. Re:Correction to your Correction by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There's a reason why people spend three years of their life in law school. It's not for their health.

      Yes, it's because laws were written by cretins...

      Laws, and regulations should be simple...

      You kill someone, outside of self-defense - you are killed yourself.

      You steal something, you give it back, plus 10 times the value.

      You speed (and someone is injured because of it), you pay reparations (unless that someone dies, in which case, see law #1).

      so on and so forth...

      laws that get so wordy, that they end up in double and triple speak, only allow for criminally minded lawyers to figure ways around them.

    10. Re:Correction to your Correction by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Release dates are interesting, but really when was EQ started? MMOs can take many years to create, and somehow I doubt EQ even in it's first incarnation was released within a year of the programming starting. Based on the start of their project (when that is I don't know) it could be argued that EQ had the idea in production before Worlds ever filed for patent. Production would prove first creation and would invalidate Worlds patent if the production started before 96.

  29. Habitat was early with graphical Avatars, etc. by eddy · · Score: 1

    Going only on your description, I'd say Habitat for sure.

    --
    Belief is the currency of delusion.
  30. FILED in 2000, but its a continuing application by cpu_fusion · · Score: 2, Interesting

    From the patent itself: Related U.S. Application Data
    (63) Continuation of application No. 08/747,420, filed on Nov. 12, 1996, now Pat. No. 6,219,045.

    Now educate yourself on continuing patents:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuing_patent_application

    Now look at the dates for release of Ultima Online and Everquest:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultima_online
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Everquest

    Also if you look at the claims for the patent it requires CLIENT software that does considerably more client-state tracking than Telnet ever did for text muds.

    1. Re:FILED in 2000, but its a continuing application by DustyShadow · · Score: 1

      People around here can't even read the summary and you expect them to read claims from a patent!!!

    2. Re:FILED in 2000, but its a continuing application by Retric · · Score: 1

      UO and EQ where late to the game. Launched online December 15, 1995 "Meridian 59 is often credited as the first 3D graphical "massively multiplayer online game" or MMORPG."

    3. Re:FILED in 2000, but its a continuing application by 3vi1 · · Score: 1

      Also if you look at the claims for the patent it requires CLIENT software that does considerably more client-state tracking than Telnet ever did for text muds.

      You mean, like the MUD clients circa 1990 that had support for scripting out triggers and such?

    4. Re:FILED in 2000, but its a continuing application by steveo777 · · Score: 1

      Even then, UO and probably EQ can prove that they had the technology created, envisioned, or whatever long before the release of their products. It should work both ways. IANAL, however, and could be dreadfully wrong... It seems that if world.com or whomever filed for the patent when they had the idea, and Ultima Online release less than a year later that they most likely had the same idea at the same time.

      Wasn't there something about patents not being granted for the obvious? Again IANAL

      --
      This sig isn't original enough, it's time to come up with something witty...
  31. Re:x111 1 1 11 23234 sadfasdfasfa by Yvan256 · · Score: 0, Troll

    Is that your answer for the FBI Code Cracking Challenge?

  32. RCA had this in the 1980s by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Back in the 1980s one thing RCA Aerospace & Defense did was 3d simulators used for military training. The machines were huge, but were designed for, and provided, scalable 3d worlds with which trainees interacted in real time. The Florida operations were the location where this was; I remember visiting there and seeing demos.

  33. Only in america ... by unity100 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    legal and patent system can be THIS exploited.

    those people very well know that prior art can be proven against them. but, they are taking an opportunity.

    the same environment which allowed finance companies to make a total wreck of economy, bolsters such opportunism. these people produce nothing, provide nothing for betterment of society or mankind, serve nothing to nobody. instead, they exploit.

    you people really need to overhaul your entire country.

  34. Still confused by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Could someone explain what the patent is about in a more clear fashion...say using an automotive metaphor?

  35. Tribes / Garagegames TGE should be prior art by pfrCalif · · Score: 1

    From working with the Torque Game Engine a while back - which was based on the Tribes engine (I think originally from 1998 but I might be wrong) - I think TGE works exactly like this in multiplayer mode. There's a central server that controls object position/etc so even if it's not a traditional MMO framework I think it fit's the bill.

    1. Re:Tribes / Garagegames TGE should be prior art by TypoNAM · · Score: 1

      Its not just Torque, but all other 3D game engines with multiplayer, especially at the very least Quake 2 era, does the exact same thing. Its common sense in 3D rendering when objects aren't visible to the camera you shouldn't feed them to the renderer to be processed and rendered since you're just wasting time. In this particular case its targeting specifically MMO games and not 3D games in general. It appears to be like the same crap that went on with the blackberry lawsuit a few years back about a wireless email patent.

      --
      This space is not for rent.
  36. DIVE by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    DIVE seems to have done all this as early as 1993.

  37. After going to the site by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Considering half the content posted there is about the legalities and the rest of it appears to be a poorly implemented cathouse-in-3D -- if the lawyers won't bury this, the players should just on a premise of how crap-tastic worlds.com's website is.

  38. That's not "irrelevant" by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 2, Insightful

    since your examples are simply more instances of prior art.

    1. Re:That's not "irrelevant" by Repossessed · · Score: 1

      Sadly it is irrelevant.

      Even with Bilski and prior art on the table, the judge isn't supposed to toss invalid patents out the door, instead leaving it up to the patent office to accept a challenge. Which would cost NCSoft millions to have done.

      --
      Liberte, Egalite, Fraternite (TM)
    2. Re:That's not "irrelevant" by powerlord · · Score: 1

      Exactly.

      Actually, from scanning the abstracts, Quake could be considered prior art, dating from 1996.

      --
      This space for rent. All reasonable inquiries will be entertained at proprietors discretion.
    3. Re:That's not "irrelevant" by Hordeking · · Score: 1

      Welcome to Text CounterStrike
      You are in a dark, outdoor map
      > GO NORTH
      You have been pwned by a grue

      Oh shit! Get this soldier to GUE Tech, College of Medicine, STAT!

      --
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  39. Re:It is a continuation of a 1996 patent applicati by genner · · Score: 1

    you'll need to wade your way through 35 USC s102 and related case law to know whether alleged prior art defeated the novelty of this patent.

    Yeah thats pretty much NCSofts job here.
    How does that invalidate my *swish* ?

  40. Re:x111 1 1 11 23234 sadfasdfasfa by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yes.

  41. They're a Joke! by Nethemas+the+Great · · Score: 1

    These folks are one big joke. I'd almost suggest going to their site to laugh at them but that'd give them the attention that they're looking for. They're essentially a DOT COM era virtual worlds company that some how managed to snag Spielberg, Bowie, Compaq and a couple other folks to toss them a combined $22M. The net result was a patent app and a really, really lame 3D engine. I don't know how they managed, but some how they were able to hang on to enough of that venture capital to retain intellectual property law firm, Lerner David Littenberg Krumholz & Mentlik LLP (LDLKM), to enforce Worlds' recently granted patents.

    --
    Two of my imaginary friends reproduced once ... with negative results.
    1. Re:They're a Joke! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I worked with them back then. AlphaWorld is still around. We made a 3D virtual mall there with product images that linked to an (single cart!) online mall. I also built an office for my publishing company.

      3D Anarchy (later Adobe Atmosphere) was better 3D. But in it's heyday, AW was fairly interesting.

  42. Re:It is a continuation of a 1996 patent applicati by DustyShadow · · Score: 1

    I haven't read the patent but the 1996 date will only be applicable to any parts of the claims that are supported by the specification as filed in 1996. Any new material in the claims will get the new date. But you probably knew this since you are a law student.

  43. Port 80? by Kindaian · · Score: 1

    I don't know but do any of NCSoft games actually communicate with the servers thru port 80 as the patent states?

    And with http protocols?

    I've huge doubts.

    Actually making a game like the patent specifies would be:

    a) Lag feast;
    b) Completly void of security; ;)

    1. Re:Port 80? by thejynxed · · Score: 1

      I don't think any of them use port 80. Guild Wars uses TCP/UDP port 6112 and UDP ports 33437-33440.

      --
      @Mindless Drivel: 100% of Twitter posts ever Tweeted.
  44. Re:x111 1 1 11 23234 sadfasdfasfa by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No.

  45. Re:Prior Art? - WTH? by dargon · · Score: 1

    Not to mention Guild Wars, which is still very popular world wide. Me thinks someone has misinterpreted the shut down of tabula rasa as more than just a decision to remove some dead wood

  46. Right out of Sci-Fi by dmeese · · Score: 1

    This idea was at least described in early cyberpunk literature as an idea. I BELIEVE it was in Neuromancer, and I'm almost certain that the ideas were discussed in both GURPS Cyberpunk and Shadowrun. An argument could be made that this is no more than a spun up version of some prior ideas. The idea CERTAINLY wasn't new in 2000.

    1. Re:Right out of Sci-Fi by Zorque · · Score: 1

      Not only that, but Ultima Online was out 3 years before the patent was even filed, and Everquest was out nearly a year beforehand. Weird that they thought they could get away with it with such high-profile games already on the scene.

  47. Obvious by Atroxodisse · · Score: 1

    Besides the oodles of prior art this patent is obvious. There is no other way any online game could be made so this patent should be thrown out based on that. Patents are meant to be non-obvious. When you read a patent you should go "wow, what a great idea". Not "Of course you dumbass."

    --
    Read my short stories - You won't regret it.
  48. Anyone remember MIDI Maze (1987)? by Lazy+Jones · · Score: 1

    Avatars interacting in a 3D virtual world etc. ... When will the USPTO stop being so dumb?

    --
    "I love my job, but I hate talking to people like you" (Freddie Mercury)
  49. MMO by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Nothing in the patent defines MMORPG or even MMOG. Since it's so broad you can argue that Doom (1993) is an MMOG since it allows more than one person in a (3D) environment (the patent does not state 3D polygons) to "interact" with each other, see each others avatars orientation and chat "taunt" each other. It doesn't even define any client/server architecture so even dialing into Twain on a 14.4k modem would fall under this patent.

  50. Patent is nonsense.....prior art exists by Michael+Snoswell · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I presented public lectures on a system I developed called Cyberterm, back in the early 90s. I presented lectures at UK VR_SIG Meeting at deMontfort University in Leicester in 1995 and at the HITL (Human Interface Technology Lab) at the University of Washington in that same year. I can name names or people in attendance if required.

    Each talk was advertised and attended by the general public and outlined Cyberterm's use of pretty much exactly the system described in the patent (which I had up and running at the time). The system had also been demonstrated to numerous other people around the world at the time and since then and was written about in WAVE and Virtual magazines in the late 90s and described in written detail in many online papers as well as a series of ariticles in the PCVR-Magazine (also in the late 90s). Some of these articles are still available online archived by the HITL Librarian.

    As the author of this system and the underlying technology, I would say I have some copyright ownership of the technology I developed. I still have archives of the earlier code and it runs with a copyright message.

    I'll be happy to claim a big chunk of any money worlds.com make. Patent attorneys and lawyers of other companies (NC-Soft for instance) wishing to defend themselves can contact me via linkedin.com (amongst other places).

    --
    pithy comment
    1. Re:Patent is nonsense.....prior art exists by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You have copyright protection over any specific source code you created. Also, you would have to sue an actual infringer, meaning your target would be any companies who actually implement a system using your code without permission.

      Nevertheless, if you think your lecture material reads on the claims of the patent, you should try to forward that information to NCSoft.

    2. Re:Patent is nonsense.....prior art exists by urulokion · · Score: 3, Informative

      I did a Google search for Cyberterm I found Michael's paper about Cyberterm. After reading the paper throughly, it seems to be prior art to most, if not all, claims of that patent. There is publish date of the paper, but the web page headers indicate a date of July, 1992. And the paper talks of release of source code in late '92, and the work that went into the project from the last year. I now have absolutely no worries at all that patent. To borrow a phrase, that patent is BUSTED!

      And I wish I had know about the software back then. I was heavy in Amigas at that time. I would have loved to take that software for spin and help out.

    3. Re:Patent is nonsense.....prior art exists by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I presented public lectures on a system I developed called Cyberterm, back in the early 90s. I presented lectures at UK VR_SIG Meeting at deMontfort University in Leicester in 1995 and at the HITL (Human Interface Technology Lab) at the University of Washington in that same year. I can name names or people in attendance if required.

      Each talk was advertised and attended by the general public and outlined Cyberterm's use of pretty much exactly the system described in the patent (which I had up and running at the time). The system had also been demonstrated to numerous other people around the world at the time and since then and was written about in WAVE and Virtual magazines in the late 90s and described in written detail in many online papers as well as a series of ariticles in the PCVR-Magazine (also in the late 90s). Some of these articles are still available online archived by the HITL Librarian.

      As the author of this system and the underlying technology, I would say I have some copyright ownership of the technology I developed. I still have archives of the earlier code and it runs with a copyright message.

      I'll be happy to claim a big chunk of any money worlds.com make. Patent attorneys and lawyers of other companies (NC-Soft for instance) wishing to defend themselves can contact me via linkedin.com (amongst other places).

      Unfortunately, you didn't get a patent. But you may very well get a subpoena from NCSoft if this suit goes anywhere. They'll want all your records so they can prove the patent is invalid.

  51. Those MMOs aren't very old. by egotripper · · Score: 1

    The claims describe managing an avatar display list on the client, such that avatars which are too far from the client's avatar, or too far past the sides of the field of view, fall off the list, and that the client only displays up to a certain number of nearby avatars.

    A whole lot of MMO shops use display list clipping because they're a stock way to keep the frame rate up. It is the kind of stuff that has been done in viewing parts of 3D virtual space since the 70s.

    I guess the novelty justifying the patent is combining the display list with the client being responsible for deciding what to clip, and with 3D avatars. Looking at the huge number of MMOs out there that do this exact sort of thing, I have to wonder just how novel the basis for the patent really is.

    Prior art might be found by studying the code for XTrek, based on Empire for PLATO. If spaceship doesn't fall within the viewport for the universe, don't draw it, and I believe XTrek was client-server, but not 3D.

  52. Well, not entirely unfair... by pjr.cc · · Score: 1

    Dont get too angry at the patent examiner, back in 2000 there weren't alot of the tools available to "find" some things as prior art.

    But, Given they were doing this some time before 2000 and keep in mind there wasn't much before 2000 aside from EQ. At least not in the commercial MMO sense. So to say they were the first to do it holds some water in some specific scenarios.

    However, there is alot of prior art in the persistent world, personallized avatar scene. In 1998 I was even working in the 3d gaming industry, though not in this particular area.

    I do remember as early as '96/'95 playing the first quake "beta", and prior to that doom (Though doom was only partly 3d - many sprites and didnt actually deal with verticals at all). But both engines were made public and there was alot of custom games written from both. There was one I used to play at lan parties based off quake that allowed people to customize avatars. Sure, we didnt have the detail algorithms that they do today back then, but we did have mip-mapping, and sure, we had max 16 players (depending on the game itself and its server) and the game was non-persistant.

    But, when you read the the patent claim the various quake mods do actually qualify. They didn't keep objects in an RDBMS, but they did have their own database - though it was quite simple. What also qualifies are things like battle net (im not sure if that was pre-2000 or not) and so forth.

    Also keep in mind, while worlds.com may be suing a game company there are more then just games at stake.

    There were several experiments I played with based on the persistent-world idea using the quake client (or at least, its ideas). They weren't much, and they weren't commercial, but EQ was an evolution of many ideas that came before it (including the various experiments based on the quake client and various extensions to the MUD concept).

    I even remember a very simple java-based persistent world that didn't live very long (while I was back at uni) where people would interact with those around them (in a non-i-want-to-shoot-you sense).

    But when you read the patent, its hard to see it surviving simply because of the prior art. If you only took EQ into account (and that would be a ridiculous notion).

    You might have to go back to places like the funet and (i cant remember the others, but there was a few great places to get shareware/FOSS/software legally back prior to things like sourceforge, google code, and the various download archives like tucows), i think one was called simtel as well, but there were many more. I even have pressed CD's from '94 (still on my desk) that contain archives of them (infomagic cd's if anyone remembers them, the best way of getting your hands on linux at the time because downloading it onto floppies was pure pain and there was no such thing as "burning" a cd or usb hard drives).

    However, I digress. I remember one of those little java (or something) based multi-user (kind of like a 3d muck that was like an irc client with a physical dimension) programs floating around one of those mirrors.

    But at the crux of the matter what I believe is that software patents should bite the bullet and be gotten rid of. Its a ridiculous notion. I also believe patent examiners should be gotten rid of. They do nothing except hold up the patent process, they rarely get it right and in reality someone who just checks the format of the patent would be good enough. Then have a penalty system that punishes people for publishing patents where prior art existed so long as you can prove the information for the prior art was public prior to the patent (and lets face it, patent cases go on for years already, this wouldn't make it any worse). Just leave it up to the public to do the due diligence. Make it so expensive to get it wrong that people who submit patents are going to pay a big price for getting it wrong.

  53. For what they condone in Lineage II alone... by sethstorm · · Score: 1

    That is enough to say "Let it happen".

    Condoning and cultivating goldfarmer rule violations in prohibited realms is deserving of some smiting.

    --
    Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
  54. Meridian 59 is prior art to that by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    Meridian 59 got released in December 1995, nearly an year before the patent was filed (November 1996).
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meridian_59
    http://meridian59.neardeathstudios.com/

  55. Obvious patent is obvious by Tei · · Score: 1

    I used to mod a quake engine, and this patent looks trivial to me. Is something anyone building a 3D engine can add to the game. A patent sould be about something no-obvious. And this is obvious (now and then).

    --

    -Woof woof woof!

  56. 1998 prior art for a truly scalable, 'P2P' MMO by Richard+W.M.+Jones · · Score: 4, Informative

    This is something we were working on from 1998. We documented the design in some detail, and I released the documentation to prevent people from trying to patent it: http://www.annexia.org/freeware/fleet

    The innovation in this (never-built) MMO is that the design requires no server at all. It what might now be called "P2P" (although that term wasn't around at the time).

    Rich.

    1. Re:1998 prior art for a truly scalable, 'P2P' MMO by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Same deal, just not documented in detail. I had a bunch of crappy source even, but alas I was a clueless college kid and didn't really understand the magnitude of the project:

      http://web.archive.org/web/19971009134147/www.hurrah.com/dv/index.html

  57. Patent troll by dj245 · · Score: 1

    Patent Troll hits you for 3 damage.

    --
    Even those who arrange and design shrubberies are under considerable economic stress at this period in history.
    1. Re:Patent troll by powerlord · · Score: 1

      > drink balm and drop it
      You can't do that as a ghost.

      Dang.

      --
      This space for rent. All reasonable inquiries will be entertained at proprietors discretion.
  58. Prior Art? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Just some examples of people interacting as avatars in a virtual 3d environment.

  59. Prior art (from the 90s!) by LordByronStyrofoam · · Score: 1

    Distributed Interactive Simulation (DIS) protocol supports a number of dead reckoning algorithms, from simple first order position to rate of turn and acceleration. An IEEE standard since '97, I believe. See here.

    --
    Slashdot's name? When my compiler sees /. it generates a warning about a badly formed comment.
  60. Oh fuck no... by geminidomino · · Score: 1

    If those fuckers get GW shut down before my ranger gets to finish Underworld, I'm gonna be eatin' somebody's baby...

  61. Quick fix to this issue is 3rd person view. by Blowit · · Score: 1

    Guys, need not to worry, This patent is considered invalid since the original patent pertains to 1st person view and not 3rd person view. NCSoft can easily bypass this by making sure their software never goes into 1st person view. Therefore, it invalidates worlds.com patent against NCSoft.

    Here is the quote from the patent:
    "In a preferred embodiment a plurality of users interact in the three-dimensional, computer-generated graphical space where each user executes a client process to view a virtual world from the perspective of that user." eg: 1st person view mode.

    Since Guild Wars is a 3rd person view mode, the lawsuit is invalid. Not sure about all the other games but to fix the issue, you need to get out of 1st person view mode to put you on the legal side.

    --
    *Headline News* censorship shuts down the Internet! More at 6PM!
  62. 3d mmorpg before 2000 by Ramion · · Score: 2, Informative

    There is a few games that was released before 2000.
    Meridian 59 - Released in 1996
    Everquest - Released in 1999
    Asheron's Call - Released in 1999

    This is according to:
    http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/show/all/sCol/estimatedRelease/sOrder/asc

    1. Re:3d mmorpg before 2000 by shentino · · Score: 1

      Don't forget about

      FFXI
      RuneScape
      And of course, muds

  63. Case law and prior art not needed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This patent falls down on the fact that it describes the natural way to code a MMOG and its client by a skilled practitioner in the subject area. Consequently the patent restricts a natural mental process and is inherently invalid.

    It could only have been granted through ignorance at the USPTO.

  64. Patent and Not Publishing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Checked out this guy Adler online. He patents everything he thinks up but he doesn't publish.

    http://www.fastcoder.net/~thumper/resume/resume-thumper.pdf

  65. when i was in college 1999 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    VRML did all this andmore , you were able tomake an entire virtual world , create avatars and move about and even interact.

    Last i checked thats definately prior art

    VRML
    Virtual reality Modeling Language
    STUFF PATENTS, waste a money, time and efforts and they actually stiffle computer innovations

    1. Re:when i was in college 1999 by shentino · · Score: 1

      If so, then the patent should easily be challenged.

  66. My favourite bit by Flipao · · Score: 1

    "System and Method for Enabling Users to Interact in a Virtual Space"

    I'm pretty sure Richard Garriott had been there done that before the year 2000.

  67. Did they actually invent something? by BigGar' · · Score: 1

    I haven't read the article or the patents, but, did they actually invent something or just brainstorm on a topic until they had some fodder to fill in the blanks on a patent application?
    If there's no invention, why the hell should there be a patent. A patent was supposed to cover a specific implementation not an ethereal concept with no product to back it up.

    Just my 2 cents.

    --


    Shop smart, Shop S-Mart.
  68. Re:Prior Art? - WTH? by killmenow · · Score: 1

    I sure as hell hope so. I play Guild Wars damn near daily. I just finally picked up the Eye of the North expansion, have been playing for years and haven't even made my way fully through PROPHECIES yet, much less Factions and Nightfall.

    Of course, all that time I've been spending getting my Perma-Pre E/Mo character to level up has kept me isolated in a fairly small portion of that world. But I'll be damned if I don't love it. My teen son also plays regularly as well as my nephew and they both have all the Guild Wars campaigns. I am missing only Nightfall. But I figure by the time I get 'round to exploring Nightfall it'll be 2012.

  69. Another patent that needs taken out by shentino · · Score: 1

    Square Enix's patent on ATB

  70. copyright my *** by hazygin · · Score: 1

    http://www.virtualworldsreview.com/cybertown/ launched 1995 I was there, I rest my case. Copyright as a concept is flawed in its' current state it has turned essentialy into a domain grab to patent all existing ideas to you can claim credit for them. peronal views: No single human being has the right to claim any information to be 100% original, you think with our sociaty and the existing culture, language, science, art, etc... that you would be able to come up with that idea in the first place? If you were born truly alone into this world, you would be no better than any animal in the wild. what you take away from the masses for your own gains, you did not intend to give back in the first place.

    1. Re:copyright my *** by Kindaian · · Score: 1

      That is why patents in the old times required a prototype.

      To split the ideas from reality, the prototype also added the "implemented here and now" feature, now absent.

      That is why this sort of them are bogus and a waste of time and money for everyone involved.

      hehehehe

  71. I actually remember this... by boowax · · Score: 1

    I used this WorldsChat thing back in 1999 when I got on the interwebs for the first time. It looked exactly as it does in the patent filing, penguins and all. Oh those were the days. Also, Meridian 59 was a 3D MMORPG that existed at that same time if not before.

    Yes, prior art certainly exists and I'm glad it's going to be so easy to find but I did have a tinge of nostalgia creep up when I saw those drawings.

    --

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  72. 3d spacewar on pdp1x in 1970s by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The 3D variant of Spacewar at MIT played on the pdp1x was there by 1975 or 1976 at least, and used a 3d world with avatars, feedback etc. It was a large universe and not as good gameplay as 2D spacewar (you spent most of your time trying to find your opponent) but it was a 3D universe and used field of vision etc. and range etc. The code and concept were certainly available to anyone wanting them back then (though you needed a pdp1x to play it, and there was only the one of those, a result of many years of MIT students adding instructions to a pdp1 that DEC had donated). It was written in assembly language of course. Still, prior art from 25 years before...

  73. Prior art? by ubrgeek · · Score: 1

    Sounds very similar to the old .com, VIOS. While the patent was for "Systems, methods, and computer program products for accessing, leasing, relocating, constructing and modifying internet sites within a multi-dimensional virtual reality environment" the implementation was very similar to MMORPGs and it was granted in '99.

    --
    Bark less. Wag more.
  74. Prior Art by Valen0 · · Score: 1

    From my experiences in mid-1990s technology:

    Doom - 1993 by ID Software

    AlphaWorld (now Active Worlds) - 1995 by Knowledge Adventure Worlds (developed in 1994)

    Meridian 59 - 1996 by 3DO (developed in 1995)

    --
    -Valen
  75. MUDs do not qualify, it explicitly states 3D by feardiagh · · Score: 2, Informative

    For those not willing to click through and read:

    Abstract

    "The present invention provides a highly scalable architecture for a three-dimensional graphical, multi-user, interactive virtual world system. In a preferred embodiment a plurality of users interact in the three-dimensional, computer-generated graphical space where each user executes a client process to view a virtual world from the perspective of that user. The virtual world shows avatars representing the other users who are neighbors of the user viewing the virtual word. In order that the view can be updated to reflect the motion of the remote user's avatars, motion, information is transmitted to a central server process which provides positions updates to client processes for neighbors of the user at that client process. The client process also uses an environment database to determine which background objects to render as well as to limit the movement of the user's avatar."

    So basically they are trying to patent everyone from William Gibson to Neal Stephenson to Rudy Rucker's version of 'cyberspace' or whatnot. And I do think UO and EQ definitely beat them to the punch as far as implementation.

  76. Yeah! Three cheers for Blizzard's legal team! by kindbud · · Score: 1

    Go get 'em!

    I mean, uh, .... wankers!

    --
    Edith Keeler Must Die
  77. Patent Piracy! by Delmania · · Score: 1

    As mentioned on Scott Jennings website, http://www.brokentoys.org/2008/12/29/our-legal-system-continues-to-suffer-from-random-drooling/#comments, this is another case of a patent pirate. Worlds.com is more than likely aware their case has no chance in hell, however, for a flailing company like NCSoft, mounting a defense is costly and they will more than likely settle.

  78. The Nigerians will be jealous by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Patent ideas that are general and obvious to even non-technically trained people and you can get rich quick by working the patent system. Even the Nigerian scammers will be jealous of this one once they get to World of Warcraft and Everquest.

  79. Debunked by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    2. The method of claim 1, further comprising the steps of

            (c) monitoring an orientation of the first user's avatar; and

            (d) displaying the set of the other users' avatars from based on the orientation of the first user's avatar as monitored is step (c),

            wherein steps (c) and (d) are performed by the client process associated with the first user.

    So as long as they do the avatar culling based on something other than the orientation of the avatar itself, the patent doesn't apply.

    I can think of about 1,000 ways to do this (which would actually work better & more realistically) but won't mention them here just in case those asshole patent trolls are reading /.

  80. After reading this bazillionth patent claim: by ibsteve2u · · Score: 0

    Given:

    • The shabby state of our economy
    • The negative impact that lawyers have upon our economy
    • The resistance of a not-insignificant part of our population to the idea of "government handouts" that go to anything that is not a corporate entity or to anybody who is not already wealthy

    I conclude that it is time to place a bounty on lawyers and issue hunting licenses to the poor.

    --
    Orwell: "In a Time of Universal Deceit, telling the Truth is a Revolutionary Act"
    1. Re:After reading this bazillionth patent claim: by ScrewMaster · · Score: 1

      Given:

      • The shabby state of our economy
      • The negative impact that lawyers have upon our economy
      • The resistance of a not-insignificant part of our population to the idea of "government handouts" that go to anything that is not a corporate entity or to anybody who is not already wealthy

      I conclude that it is time to place a bounty on lawyers and issue hunting licenses to the poor.

      That would serve no purpose. Many people make that mistake. Look, from the corporate perspective, lawyers are tools, no more and no less. And if you were to kill off every such tool tomorrow, they would either a. make more or b. find some other kind of tool, probably one we'd like even less.

      This is kind of like the media companies and the RIAA. The RIAA (a bunch of lawyers, particularly nasty ones at that) take the blame for some thirty thousand lawsuits. A lot of people believe that the RIAA instituted this lawsuit mill all on its own ... but nothing could be further from the truth. In reality, they're just doing what they're paid to do, under instructions from their corporate masters. It's no different here: the attorneys are just doing what is, to them, a job. Yes, it would be nice if these lawyers had an ethical bone in their bodies and just told their bosses, "no, that would be wrong." That's not going to happen, so you should focus on the individuals who are actually responsible for asinine, submarine patents and who institute these stupid lawsuits.

      The people who need to be lined up and shot are the CEOs of such two-bit companies, the ones who don't understand that the way to success is a constant drive to produce new products and improve the ones you have, to continually invest in the future. They are the ones who have chosen to use the law as a weapon, not to provide redress of grievance, but to suppress legitimate competition.

      --
      The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
    2. Re:After reading this bazillionth patent claim: by ibsteve2u · · Score: 0

      It's no different here: the attorneys are just doing what is, to them, a job. Yes, it would be nice if these lawyers had an ethical bone in their bodies and just told their bosses, "no, that would be wrong."

      Huh. I wonder why that argument didn't work at Nuremberg?

      Admittedly, the people who have come out of the nation's B-schools and law schools over the last three decades use that precise argument as camouflage and justification for unethical and amoral - and often immoral - behavior.

      But that still doesn't make it right - and what is not right, is wrong, and should be stopped before all laws and social mores are tossed aside with the sneer that "They're just a g-dd----d bunch of idealistic crap."

      --
      Orwell: "In a Time of Universal Deceit, telling the Truth is a Revolutionary Act"
  81. happy 2009 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    must be americans ...