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Could Fuller Take Trek Back To TV?
bowman9991 writes "Bryan Fuller, creator of the TV show Pushing Daisies and a former Star Trek writer and producer, is geared up to make it happen. The new Star Trek TV show would be based on "old style" Star Trek, rather than the more recent incarnations and variations: Deep Space Nine, Voyager, Enterprise and Star Trek: The Next Generation. There hasn't been a Star Trek TV series since Enterprise was canceled after four seasons in 2005. Fuller wrote twenty one Star Trek episodes over four years, two in Deep Space Nine's final season, and the rest for Voyager. He also produced Voyager's last season. If J.J. Abrams' reboot is successful (and the latest trailer suggests it will be!) perhaps we'll see him involved with a new Star Trek TV show with the style and impact of Fringe or Lost. The new Star Trek movie featuring a young Kirk and Spock is in cinemas May 2009." Besides his work on many episodes of Trek, Fuller's work includes Dead Like Me and some of the best of Heroes. (He's one of the names I actively seek in the writing slot.) Between him and JJ Abrams, the era of Rick Berman looks to finally be at an end. Cross your fingers.
Rather than another series that will result in overpriced DVDs, I'd have loved to get a DS9 or Voyager Movie or two...
Sort of like Voyager then in that they too were Lost (in the Delta Quadrant)? Only this time I want 1,2,3,4,5,6,8 and 9 of 9.. In fact I see no reason to have any other cast member that a bunch of 7 of 9's... Well maybe a leather clad Janeway, hmmm I seem to have gone off topic.
In the not too distant future, next Sunday A.D.
And Voyager was such a great series. Sarcasm intended.
Unless you liked hearing about the latest Fucktoquadillion gigastream of pure hexashitrillic energy the borg were beaming at voyager's past timestream in order to attract the hirogen to hunt them and the leprosy dudes to steal their organs.
A bullet may have your name on it but splash damage is addressed "To whom it may concern."
I loved Pushing Daises but it failed fair and square. Nobody monkeyed seriously with the time slot. It was a lead-in to mega-popular Grey's Anatomy for most of its run. Nobody watched Pushing Daisies though. I'm a little hesitant for the creator of that show to take the production helm of Star Trek. It would be awesome, but I'm a afraid it will be a fringe show with too small an audience.
pushing daisies was amazing and it wasn't until the show was canceled and i started looking around that i even realized who fuller was, but have since recognized that I have long enjoyed his work without knowing who he was.
Now I know who to credit for all the entertainment that I really liked (Voyager, Season 1 heroes, Pushing daisies...)
It's a shame that pushing daisies didn't make it. I think the show was a huge victim of the writer's strike. The shortened first season killed the audience and it never recovered. it's been very disappointing for my wife and I because the shows we can watch and enjoy together are few and far between, and this was one we both really liked.
We also both really liked Heroes Season 1, but Season 2 was a complete disaster and neither of us watch it any more. It's weird how it all seems to be about fuller's presence or absence (in hindsight).
They hired Fuller for writing on Heroes again, but I think it's too late. They should just kill the show.
Oh well.
Sometimes a soul should just be allowed to pass over. Let that field lie fallow for a decade or so at least.
SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
Rick Berman: TNG
Bryan Fuller: Failed ABC series and Voyager
OP loses credit
Haven't they gone everywhere where no man has gone before by now?
Something tells me Fuller won't be nearly as big into the big-breasted ladies as you might think. I think we're more likely to see buff dudes.
SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
"If J.J. Abrams' reboot is successful (and the latest trailer suggests it will be!)..."
Yes, because trailers are always the best source for determining a film's success. In fact, why bother releasing the movie, since its success is assured?
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Spandex Justice
Voyager? Wasn't that the worst one of all? That machine should have been a little more banged up at the end but yet they had even more resources than when they started out. I know trek is BS but damn the same stories over and over get old after a while.
Let it die for a few more years at least.
If J.J. Abrams' reboot is successful (and the latest trailer suggests it will be!)
You're assessing a film based on its trailer? Have you ever seen both a film and its trailer? Did you notice a pattern as to the worth of trailers in judging films? I really hope that was a weak attempt at a joke.
As for the series, let it rest a while. 2015 might be a good time to think about it.
Star Trek was always a fantasy to me as an engineer about what 'could be'. Just over the progression of TOS, TNG, DS9, VOY you could see incremental improvements in technology. Voice controls actually worked, bio-neural networks, etc. STOP recreating (and fucking up) the original story line.
TOS happened, it's done with. Quit going before it. Stop milking the lives of Scotty, Kirk, or the beginning of the beginning of the federation.
Set something 90 years out from the end of VOY. Put the first Cardassian (or other former enemy) on the bridge (Worf). Maybe bump up Warp speed or another method of going fast (But not Warp 10 retarded shit VOY broke out). Invite some scientists writers, the writers of Futurama, to the initial writings and get some pseudo-science based technologies. Just make up some new shiny tech. Don't fill it with too much technobabble. (Stargate was a good balance in my mind).
You could easily make it dark too. DS9 is hands down my favorite series.
Federation Civil War?
Fall of the Federation?
STOP GOING BACK IN TIME.
Cooooool!
My ism, it's full of beliefs.
You'd have to change the animal so much that it wouldn't seem recognizable. The old formula has become such a cliche that there's absolutely nothing you can reuse from it. Reset button at the end of the episode, lame. Space anomalies, lame. Gritty scifi future with lots of angst, made lame by overexposure on Galactica. Aliens who look exactly like us save for bumpy foreheads? I could buy it when I was younger but it's just ridiculous these days. (I'll probably be in the minority on this one.) Time-travel plots, squishy techno-babble science plots, holodeck plots, everything that makes Trek Trek is what's been killing it. It's like asking "Can we make a healthy Big Mac?" Yeah, and by the time you're done removing everything that's bad about that burger, you're left with nothing but lettuce and sesame seeds.
I'd say Firefly was a great model on how to do a space show that wasn't Trek but it died after a season. I'm not really sure how that happened given the fan support, it must have just been Fox superdickery more than anything else. But aside from that, Firefly gave us a space show that was like Trek only in so much as there were spaceships -- everything else was as different from Trek as it was from other shows. Even the basic premise -- "Imagine you made a TV show about Han Solo before he and Chewie joined the Rebellion" -- even that description carries certain assumptions the show blew away.
Galactica has good production values and good acting but the writing is a crime. Half of the uber-plot of the show is a mystery, what's the Cylon's angle? What are their motivations? Why did they do what they did? And a good mystery writer needs to know how it happened before the first chapter's written because support for the whodunnit has to be written in to every subsequent chapter. Not having a clue and just pulling it out of his ass at the end is cheap and unsatisfying and that's the approach Galactica's taken. Heroes as well for that matter, and Heroes season 1 was completely awesome, it was only the later post-Fuller seasons that turned into a giant crap sandwich. But as far as BSG goes, the original was completely derivative of Star Wars and the remake seems to draw a lot more from network dramas in terms of pacing and feel.
I'd say Babylon 5 was the true post-Trek show. You could see the inspiration from Trek but it also drew on a hell of a lot of other sources, really steeped in scifi goodness. It moved beyond what Trek was and DS9, Voyager, Enterprise, they were all muddling around at the same level. They never really rose to the challenge. The times they tried, they were just ripping off B5 plots instead of doing something bigger, better, and smarter. And that's sad because for all of the greatness that was B5, there was still room for improvement.
I remain in the "stick a fork in Trek and call it done" camp. I'll take a look at the new movie just to be charitable but my expectations are extremely low. I'm willing to be surprised. I just feel that if they really want to do a wonders of space exploration and discovery show, they should really nix the whole Trek thing and come up with something brand new. The CGI has come so far these days, they can get away with stuff that couldn't have been imagined.
Kwisatz Haderach
Sell the spice to CHOAM
This Mahdi took Shaddam's Throne
And I think this is a good thing, but I can't help hearing the voice of the pushing Daisies narrator doing the classic Trek introduction.
"Our five year 3 days and 32 minute minute mission..."
And that is the problem. Look at how bad it really was. Not in comparison to even worse shows. But in comparison to GOOD shows.
They had set up a really interesting concept ... and then totally neutered it. Everyone on the ship were best friends. Even though a large chunk of the crew had declared their own war. And the ship somehow kept getting repaired. And the borg were suddenly very weak. And do we really want to go into time travel?
Now compare that to Firefly's only season. Some of the crew did not like other members of the crew. The captain was not perfect. They had to work to keep the ship flying.
Go back to the original ST where each episode stood by itself and was written by people with good ideas that weren't interested in developing a space soap opera.
Um, but Star Trek is a space opera and there essentially was a story arch in TOS, it was just canceled by the network before it had time to fully develop. That's at least part of what the movies were about.
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As excited as I am for the new film (And this is from someone who was never a fan of TOS), I'm not sure continuing on the reboot with a new series is such a good idea.
I don't feel the Star Trek universe is in any way "finished", 2 of it's most successful incarnations had nothing to do with the Enterprise, while one of them that did was a near-failure on nearly all fronts. There's a lot of scope left there that could easily be looked into.
My issue with the reboot is that it's set to create two completely different star trek universes, which I feel will do more harm than good. It'd be like George Lucas recreating Star Wars, with all the same characters, except in an alternate universe. Sure, it might be a bit cool as a one-off, ala Superman growing up in the USSR, but if you run with it, you end up dividing the fanbase.
+1 IDisagreeSoHeMustBeATrollOrAnAstroturferOrAShill
I had hoped that,as a society we had matured past this fear of the unknown or different. Maybe not.
However, to produce a more thoughtful, TNG-like series does require more writing talent that simply the ability to produce cheap thrills from excess body-counts (heroes: are you listening? thought not). In the current climate, the money people might just decide to fall back on the old blood and thunder recipe just to scrape some extra revenue, rather than pick up the chance to produce good television.
politicians are like babies' nappies: they should both be changed regularly and for the same reasons
Rather, Kate Mulgrew entering a restaurant near Times Square a couple of months back.
I heard the voice then I did a double take, and sure enough it was her.
She looked old.
I was tempted to go in and say hi, but I'm not that much of a geek.
This Sig does not Exist.
I'd actually prefer something like this be made and sold straight to DVD. I think Star Trek or Star Wars both could easily sell just about any show that they produced straight to DVD. They'd manage 3-4 seasons without a sweat. Actually, I think that it's far past time for a Star Wars TV series.
I've always liked Trek, but it's felt bland for awhile. They are always presented as being one thing but very soon they all bring out their Kirk side. This refers to every federation leader that we've seen.
I miss B5. I feel that it managed to set a standard that Star Trek should easily be able to match or better. I mean come on any Trek series should be able to make it 5 seasons. They should easily be able to add those little background things B5 had to pull it all together. If anything, I've been kinda disappointed in Trek lately.
It's kinda sad that the series wants to return to its roots and go out to find hot alien women.
They just don't get it anymore. But I'll say it anyway. Science fiction and superhero comics are about satisfying male adolescent psychology. Stray from that with ass-kicking females wielding blasters and you will crash and burn. No female captains. No ass kicking female aliens. Male to male conflict. Have a strong, even arrogant male lead who is the ONE WHO IS QUICKER, SMARTER, almost all the time. It is NOT a group effort. It is about a superior male captain. Look to the original Kirk. Note that Spiderman succeeded and made a LOT of money. Unsure adolescent male becomes confident, capable, and powerful when he puts on the spiderman personality. And he saves the FEMALE....who does not kick his butt anywhere in the movies. Nor does she somehow acquire powers of her own to satisfy modern Political Correctness. As for a Vulcan, the Vulcan MUST be a blend of Vulcan and Human. It is not optional. The Vulcan exists entirely to explore human psychological and social truths. By itself, a Vulcan is a piece of cardboard.
One more point of many more I could make. Science fiction has taken the depressing direction of the failure of humanity. Star Trek I was about the success of mankind. Get back to that. Apparently "serious" series makers did not feel very adult making a story in which mankind succeeds. Ok, do it again. Get them lost. Get them destroyed. Get them wandering around. Make the characters "real" by making them mean, nasty, slutty, jerks. Make them inferior and struggling. Have the female characters engage in comments about how stupid, inferior, ridiculous, juvenile male motivations and behavior are. Fail as a series.
Oh, and don't engage in the ridiculous, like making a holographic doctor or having an alien doctor who knows more about human medicine than humans. Jeesh, who came up with that grating piece of nonsense? Someone making a job for a friend? And the sick bay should not be bigger and more technologically advanced than the bridge. etc etc etc.
The future will be more of the same, only different. Remember that.
E Proelio Veritas.
Deep Space Nine begs to differ.
Benford's Corollary to Clarke's Law: "Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced."
Wait until 10 years after the last cancellation before thinking about a new TV show. If there is pent-up demand, you've ensured yourself of success even if the product is mediocre. If there's not, don't waste your time.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
Frankly the whole charm of the TOS was that it wasn't -that- far into the future, and the basic characters just worked.
By creating Kirk and Spock and the rest of the crew of the Enterprise, Roddenberry gave us the modern equivalent of a Hercules myth. We can milk Kirk and Spock for two thousands years, and, if we are as good as the Greeks, we should.
And frankly, I'm sick of all the darkness in present science fiction. Science is advancing more all the time and if there was ever a time for optimism based on a scientific society, NOW is it. Humanity can improve, and will improve, and having a series that reminds us of what our future could be, if we chose to do it, and reminds us of our ongoing moral obligations, is a damned fine thing.
Sick of all these moral halfwits running around in sci-fi these days. Poor Adam's crying again on Galactica. Big woosy. Poor Col Tigh's drinking again, and he's a fricking Cylon. That show had all sorts of promise and then they made Adam cry all the time and Tigh into a Cylon. What the frak is that. I'm sick of complexity in characters. I want -Gods-.
This is my sig.
I think it would be a nice twist if they created a new show about Starfleet Academy. Set it in the post Nemesis Star Trek universe so as not to step on the toes of either TOS, TNG, or the JJ Abrams reboot. The story could follow the life of a select group of cadets through the rigors and trials of attending and graduating from the Academy. Would definitely allow them to provide a more 'human' look at the Star Trek universe while still getting technical enough to appease the Trekkies. Another benefit is that at the end of the show's run at the Academy, we would have a new crew, fresh out of the Academy to put on a starship for a 5 year mission and see them grow through the ranks.
"There are only two things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." -AE
Fuller wrote twenty one Star Trek episodes over four years, two in Deep Space Nine's final season, and the rest for Voyager.
So the guy wrote 19 episodes of Voyager? I worry that if runs a new TV series, it could be the final nail in Star Trek's coffin.
I often don't like the choices people make, but I like the fact that people make choices. That's why I'm a conservative.
Each series had to trump the previous with more fantastic technology and odder races.
This became kind of weird int he prequel series Enterprise.
It might be interesting to redo The Starlost. For those who have never seen it, the show is set on Earthship Ark. The ship was sent off into space because the Earth was going to be destroyed. It is a huge ship consisting of a network of interconnected biodomes. Each dome takes about three days to walk across, and sealed within each dome is a human settlement. Unfortunately, the ship was struck by an asteroid which destroyed the bridge and knocked the ship off course. Instead of taking a small handful of generations to get to the destination, the ship has been drifting for centuries, and is now on a collision course with a star. The biodome inhabitants have lost all concept of being on a ship. Each settlement developed differently.
One particular biodome, has become vaguely Amish: technologically backward, agrarian, and totalitarian. Three of these people manage to find their way out of their dome. They wander the interconnecting tubes, and discover the truth about the ship. The series follows their journey of discovery.
Although the concept was great (thanks to Harlan Ellison, author of ST-TOS:City on the Edge of Forever, and one of the main conceptual people behind Babylon 5), the cheap budgets and lousy effects capabilities of 1970s videotape technologies made the original series into one of the worst SF shows in history. Even worse than Space 1999. With today's tech, and with a proper budget, I think this show might make a decent series.
When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
I liked the TOS, because there was much more of an unknown quality to the enemies - Spock was distrusted by many crew members, WTF were Romulans? - oh SH*T they look like Spock.
I much prefer the renegrade style, wild west Kirk, than Tea and Crumpets Pickard (although he is damn good)
Yes - weekly defeats with the Federation in jeopardy would be quite tense and exciting to watch.
..........FULL STOP.
Yes - weekly defeats with the Federation in jeopardy....
Was a regular thing during the last few seasons of DS9.
I gave up religion for Lent.
Except that the acting was done for 4:3, so you have large 16:X shots with 3-4 people standing right next to each other in the middle.
A bullet may have your name on it but splash damage is addressed "To whom it may concern."
That would be too much fun
..........FULL STOP.
But only if the show's main character is a mild mannered pie maker on the Enterprise. And his childhood sweetheart was a red shirt sent on an away mission... well you know what happens next.
Of course if this was on the enterprise the sweetheart would probably be promoted to nurse and seduced by Kirk. Which would mean she would end up dead anyway. So no big change in the basic premise.
One of the things that let TNG be fun to watch and have good stories was the fact there was ~20 years between TOS being canceled and TNG starting. There were no writers that were stuck in a Star Trek mindset, there was time for writers to have new experiences. On the other hand, you had TNG, DS9 and Voyager all slamed together to the point that the writing ended up all the same and, especially with Voyager, they just did the same stories that had come before.
Let Star Trek rest. If it ever comes back, and there really is no law saying it has to, let it come back in 10 or more years.
"I use a Mac because I'm just better than you are."
"If J.J. Abrams' reboot is successful (and the latest trailer suggests it will be!) perhaps we'll see him involved with a new Star Trek TV show with the style and impact of Fringe or Lost."
Oh, you mean it will start off with a compelling premise, but it will eventually become clear that the writers are just making shit up as they go, and soon everyone (Abrams included) will have given up on it and moved on to the next new, compelling premise?
Fuller had his shot on Voyager. 'Nuff said. Give us trek set in a post-Federation setting, where "the Borg ripped the Federoni's a new one, leaving small pockets of survivors to fight both the hive and other survivors for resources". Or something. At least give us trek set passed TNG, not more awful rewriting a la Enterprise.
Fringe ignores word 'science' in SF :P
I wish that's all Fringe did. Unfortunately, the writers of Fringe kidnapped, beat, and sodomized science in front of it's own children. Then, when done, gave each other high-fives for doing such a great job.
It's like they have some kind of scientific buzzword dartboard in their office that they use to write the jargon that their characters use.
From a legal standpoint, this is why long copywrites are bad. A lot of people look at the legal implications, but I've been a big fan of the creative implications. Instead of trying to create a brand new story and brand new content, the entire movie industry is trying to find ways of rehashing old ideas. 40 years later, instead of a new series, Paramount is trying to milk trek for all it's worth. Andromeda was actually an interesting series. A little crazy at times, not perfect, but it was a new idea, and it was allowed to stand and succeed or fail on it's own.
No one is taking enough risks. Sure, you might think creating the Watchmen movie a "risk" but is it really? You have a guarenteed fanbase who will walk in the door and make you money even if they don't like the movie, because once they have their ticket, they most likely won't ask for a refund if it sucked. Watchmen is riskier than Wolverine or Spiderman, but it's still nothing compared to creating a brand new world from scratch... actually making something new up!
If we could reform the law to cut off all existing copywrites to end in twenty years from now, and then give copywrite to new works for only 20 years, I think we'd break this "monopoly" on content major media corporations have, and they'd be forced to go out and look for new ideas constantly rather than try to rehash the old ones every 15 years for a "new audience," creating this monoculture that somehow Trek is so great that we must continue to remind you of it. Trek in the 60s was brilliant, and ground breaking. Now, it's 40 years old. Let us remember it for what it was, and stop beating us about the head with it, I don't need help remembering it.
"All great wisdom is contained in .signature files"
Honestly, it was the most interesting piece of Star Trek since TNG. Implement some DS9 continuity and I think it could be really successful. Just my two cents.
Agreed, I absolutely HATE serials. If it's a space soap opera, I won't be watching.
Free Martian Whores!
I hope this means the Captain gets to bang a lot of hot alien babes again.
And if the Captain is a woman, so much the better.
What?
Except that the "acting" was done for 4:3
There, fixed that for you. ;)
"(But not Warp 10 retarded shit VOY broke out)"
Then you must find the warp 12(or something ridiculous like that) even more absurd and that happened during TNG(with the traveler).
Are you trying to make some kind of point here?
I mean that wasn't an especially good episode... And I'm not normally a Wesley-hater, but incidentally that was also the episode where we learn that Wesley isn't like the other boys, Wesley is special...
Bow-ties are cool.
We've done the five year mission, then went forward several hundred years to the next generation, did the space station thing, got lost in a new sector of the galaxy and then went back to the beginning. Now we go back to the beginning, again?
I'm sorry but Star Trek has got boring. It follows a formula, new technology, new badder enemy, war, combat, new technology, beat bad guys - go home. Every ST after TNG followed the exact same formula, days of our lives in space.
The only hope for ST is what made it interesting in the very beginning TOS and TNG, science fiction Forget all the lame 'b' grade effects, effects are the only thing that have made trek pleasing to watch, it was the imagination that filled in the gaps when I first watched TOS, and at the time it was the most ground breaking thing on TV - fuck IT WAS TV - and the story was king!!!
but, no no no these shows are seen as 'franchises', not a craft that sparks the imagination of the viewer, as one lame idea after another is tried. I'm sure I'm not the only sci fi fan that is banging their head in frustration. Now I'm sure that the new Star Trek movie will work, but it will work in the way that when a Chinese artisan copies a work of art faithfully and skill fully, yet they still don't understand the idea that brought the art into being in the first place.
For Star Trek to work in the future (are you listening Star Trek producers) you need to get back to what Star Trek was and should be a vehicle for hard science fiction. Go read Greg Bear Eon, Eternity (get Greg Bear to write the episodes) then call on Allister Reynolds and Robert Reed or half a dozen other sci fi writers that other slashdotters could name. Better yet, make the entire story Open Source or Creative commons and start asking for submission for stories from the fans. Two words Paramount BIG FUCKING IDEAS.
For fuck sake make Star trek in your face science fiction again, or just say it's over, cause the way it's being killed is just sad.
My ism, it's full of beliefs.
TOS Enterprise could do about warp 8, but there was a chance of engine damage above warp 6. There was 1 episode where an alien took over and modded the engines and it did around warp 14 or so. There was a computer game in the 70's called trek or strtrk it place a limit of warp 10 as the max speed a star ship could travel. The closer you got to warp 10 the greater the probability you would time warp. I think the voyager episode was a tribute of sorts to the computer game " +++" ;-)
The rest of the series had a faster than warp 10 being possible. Maybe there where parallel universes and warp 10 was the limit in one but not the other. ;-)
I disagree. In the past couple of years, my husband and I have been Netflixing all of TNG, as well as BSG (though we're caught up now) and, for a couple weeks, Babylon 5. We agree that while TNG was a very good show once it hit its stride in season 3, a bit more continuity would have made it really great. In fact, we're noticing the bits of continuity that we never noticed when it was on and we were in jr high (like Worf's several-season dealing-with-the-empire arc), and that alone is making the series even better for us. We love BSG for its serialness, and Babylon 5 we appreciated the serial nature but couldn't get past how bad each individual episode was.
And there is definitely a happy medium to be found between "cliffhanger at the end of every episode" and "everything tied up with a neat little bow." To leave sci-fi, Scrubs strikes this balance very nicely. There are a lot of multi-episode arcs (often found in the subplots), and continuity in general is something that happens consistently rather than once a season, but the actual main plot line of each episode is almost always resolved at the end. You get actual character development over time, unlike many traditional sitcoms, but you can also watch a single episode and be satisfied at the end.
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I personally love consuming Star Trek but I dont think we need another Star Trek show on TV, even though im in the minority liking Voyager and Enterprise as well as the rest. I have enough trek goodness to last me a long time with all the fan productions like Hidden Frontier and the audio drama's such as Star Trek Excelsior. If they really must do another series then ill surely watch it but id rather they give money to a fan production and some help and then enjoy that goodness over the internet with some sort of advertising attached to it to cover costs.
"the era of Rick Berman looks to finally be at an end"
Whatever you think of Rick Berman, the fact is that it was his era that made Star Trek financially viable for Paramount.
Of course his era also included some of the best Trek episodes ever.
This suggested reboot has already happened, as online fan-produced indie series:
Star Trek: New Voyages/Phase II
Starship Farragut
Starship Exeter
That first one is by far the most technically impressive. There have been other TOS-based fan efforts, but these are the most successful of them. There are other Trek-based fan productions as well, and Star Trek: Hidden Frontier, though it's derived from later 'official' series, arguably spawned all of these efforts by proving the concept in the first place, over a span of seven years. It may be the mother of all Star Trek fan productions; it has now spawned multiple spin-offs that are all in active production.
ST:NV/P2 has garnered enough attention that some of its production team had a hand in another indie Trek Production, Of Gods And Men, whose cast and crew included some names most of you will immediately recognize. What's more, some of the original TOS writers have been drawn into this, and are drafting new original scripts.
I'm deliberately not providing links; I want you to poke around and discover just how much Trekking has been going on outside of Paramount. I'm posting this many hours later than I started it, because I wound up revisiting all the production sites to catch up. If you don't have that kind of time and just want to see the very best of what's out there, I'd suggest the ST:NV episode World Enough And Time (WEAT) and Star Trek: Of Gods And Men. They will both leave you wanting more.
I say they make one that starts way before TOS or Enterprise. Or First Contact. Or the present day. It'd be Star Trek set on 1920s Earth, with no space ships, no alien races, or even the vague understanding of space travel. Just a bunch of people walking around a recreation of the 1920s.
The Internet is generally stupid
Go back to the original ST where each episode stood by itself and was written by people with good ideas that weren't interested in developing a space soap opera.
Um, but Star Trek is a space opera and there essentially was a story arch in TOS, it was just canceled by the network before it had time to fully develop. That's at least part of what the movies were about.
What do you mean by "arch"?
<doorway and computer console appears out of thin air>
Well, shit.
Bow-ties are cool.
44 years spans at least three cultural generations.
The original Trek was military culture familiar to the WWI and Korean era veterns of the 1960s.
The New Generation was 'yuppies in space' - well-healed baby boomers, team organization, yada, yada, yada.
The newer Treks never quite caught the pathos of the younger generations. The GenY's are individualistic and artistic, sort of like "herding cats in space" - not your corporate team players. Another Roddenberry scifi show called Andromeda captured this pathos better.
I cant really characterize the newest adults - the 9/11, Iraq War, and Second Depression generation. The generation always plugged into electronic communication and networks.
The New Generation made an interesting prediction that seems to be coming true - the death of television. I recall one episode where some 21st century types were revived from hibernation and asked about television and money and the crew said they didnt do those any more. Roddenberry's uptopia did not have money or TV.
If by "old style" they mean TOS, then I have news for them: it will not work. The 60s was a different era. A butt-kicking chick-hunting always-succeeding swashbuckling male hero (i.e. James T. Kirk) is a little bit on the ridiculous side today. Just observe young people react to those "old" movie heros like James Bond or Indiana Jones: most youngsters make fun of them.
What Star Trek should do is become more serious sci-fi: better pseudo-science, more interesting politics, explanation for Federation economics and why it works or why it does not work), characters with ethical dilemmas, a little bit darker when required, etc.
Star Trek should ask all the questions we should not dare ask any more.
They could make a show named 'Star Trek' which shows the exploration of space, first contact with an alien civilization, how faster-than-light travel was developed, etc. And slowly progress towards the 24th century, to the level of Star Trek we know.
In this new show, the characters will watch Star Trek (TOS, TNG, DS9) just for fun. Actors from previous series could make cameo appearances as themselves, being interested in space travel.
The show could be serious, almost a documentary, which shows the dramatic side of space exploration, the politics, the international competition, the effects on people' lives, the change of culture. It could also have a side like X-Files, with conspiracies about UFOs etc, which are later resolved.
No, since Harvey Korman died, the show just wouldn't work.
I believe HBO had a Star Trek series like that, except it was set in the 1880s and involved a camp full of foul-mouthed miners.
"Between him and JJ Abrams, the era of Rick Berman looks to finally be at an end. Cross your fingers. " What??? Berman was instrumental in making Trek what it was after Roddenberry passed away. He along with Michael Piller were the driving force of Trek through the 80's and 90's, and though I have no doubt Abrams can work some magic with Trek I don't see where this comment by the OP came from.
Your criticisms are interesting but like so many people, you lack perspective.
The fact is, right now more people are wealthier than they ever have been. Many of our problems today, are problems of wealth. That is a good problem to have. Bad problems to have are rampant starvation. We're WELL on the way to making all of humanity less hungry than ever. China is lifted out of poverty, India is on its way out. Dude, that's 2 billion people that can eat, that couldn't. That have money, but didn't.
Our lifetime is a TRIUMPH of progress. Even this present recession is a minor calamity compared to what other people have gone through in the past.
We take it for granted any more that when we choose to have a child, that the child will live. This was not possible even 50 years ago.
We take it for granted that when we turn on the tap water, it will be safe. By and large it is safer water than it has ever been. 100 years ago, we had the likes of cholera to worry about. Today, it doesn't happen, and neither do many other diseases born of bad water.
We have more food than ever, of every kind, and if you want all natural food, you can get that too.
Landfills might be choked with trash, but landfills are only a tiny portion of the overall earth. In the northeastern United States, a great reforestation has taken place and within our lifetimes. And there are more birds than ever before. Just look up... there used to be few birds, and now there are great and enormous flocks of them migrating. I didn't see -that- when I was a kid.
Cars are definitely better than they have been. Today's econobox weighs less, goes farther, handles better on a tank of gas. You might rip computers, but where once people bought manufactured goods subject to the tolerances of the human eye and hand, now they get consistent and reliable products made perfectly by a machine. This allows consumers to have goods of a greater complexity than ever before.
I'm routinely critical of science because in the short term, it is politicized, and over-promises. But the thing is, all of those incremental advances do pile up in a way that works out good for humans. We may find, as we advance more problems to solve, but, there's no denying that that past we leave behind, at least in terms of technology and lifespan and the human condition, is nowhere near as bright as the future that lies ahead.
Either the USA or the Chinese are going back to th e moon. It looks Mars will finally survive a Democratic administration. We have better unmanned space probes heading out to newer places than ever before. I would have NEVER thought that we would see pictures of Pluto's surface in our lifetime and we're going to get that. We are getting counts and pixel sized images of planets in other solar systems.
And plus, hell, Microsoft is shipping a version of Windows that actually works, Linux can finally recognize my mouse in X without screwing everything up, and Intel CPUs can add.
This is my sig.
When the politically correct newer versions of Trek came out, and changed the line "To boldly go where no man has gone before" - which was one of the greatest ever! - to a neutered, lame "no ONE has gone".... it pretty much jumped the shark.
My favorite's, by far, TNG. TNG, Voyager, and DS9 stand out at the top (I dig TOS, but its quirks make me dig it for slightly different reasons). Why must we go back into the backstory of Trek? We should move forward. Isn't MOVING FORWARD what the Trek universe is all about? Thought so.
As a complete aside. Some of my favorite episodes involve The Q. I think it'd be amazing to have a series around them. I'm sure the stories involving them are far too outlandish for the mundane viewing public, of course.
PS: I don't reply to ACs.
I mean, everyone knows that only the first two seasons of TNG were any good (The Naked Now deserved a frigging Emmy!), after which Roddenberry died and Berman shitted it up with characters like Reginald Barclay, Gowron, and Locutus of Borg. Berman could never help create a character as perfect as Wesley Crusher and he should've stopped trying. And then he comes out with that boring, actionless piece of fluff called Deep Space Nine, which was so awful that it ran for only seven seasons in an oversaturated market. Some Cardassian tailor with a mysterious past? Who cares? An all-out war between the Federation and some major dominion in the Gamma Quadrant, filled with intrigue and plot twists? Who wants to see that?
Sarcasm aside, I think what CmdrTaco meant is that we should hope for the end of the era of Brannon Braga. He's the one primarily responsible for Voyager and Enterprise, and the only things he did that were good for the franchise were because of Ronald Moore.
Rob
It should say "Look at this! you don't want the future to look like this do you? This is where we are headed!"
Everybody does that. Doomsayers are a dime a dozen. We are doomed if we don't stop global warming, doomed if we do. Doomed because of the economy, wars, economic meltdown. Doomed because of too much food and water and doomed because of not enough.
Sci-fi existing as a warning is just a writer's slogan to write depressing stuff, its easier to imagine how things could wrong more than it is to contemplate how things could be right.
This is my sig.
but pushing daisies kicks butt !!
Read radical news here
You know what happened to Pushing Daisies.
Heh, yeah, Season 1 was especially bad. Somehow the show managed to kick ass though, even with the bad acting - I think it's because it was such a refreshing change from Star Trek.
Human nature remains unchanged, capitalism still thrives, politicians are still corrupt, poverty is still an issue but we still ignore it, the military doesn't try to pretend that they're not a military, the laws of physics still work (even gravity and inertia), the uniforms are practical, and most importantly, several of the main characters hate each other. Star Trek has none of these things.
B5 did compromise on having sound in space, though. It was a conscious choice they made for dramatic effect, but kudos to Firefly for making the better choice.
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Babylon 5 we appreciated the serial nature but couldn't get past how bad each individual episode was
How far in did you watch it? It gets seriously better about half way through the second season. Some of the season 1 episodes are painful to watch (I'm primarily thinking of TKO here), but by the time you get to season 3 that just doesn't happen any more.
According to Jammer's Reviews, which I have found pretty reliable (the reviewer shares your distaste for Voyager), looks like the average score for episodes he wrote is 2.7 out of 4 stars. 6 of his episodes are rated especially badly (2 stars or less) and 6 are rated especially well (3.5 or more stars). Definitely a mixed bag, including the terrible "Course: Oblivion," "Sprit Folk," and "Fury." On the other hand, he is responsible for some of Voyager's best: "Living Witness," "Drone," and "Barge of the Dead."
Please. DS9 ran out of ideas after the first season. And Voyager never had any to begin with. I mean, when you hire writers who love to use the word "planetoid" but never bother to look it up...
As a faithful fanboy, I'll probably go the movie. I might even enjoy it, if I can get past their using the time travel gimmick yet again. But more TV shows? Please, no. The whole concept is just worn out. They might be able to squeeze out a few decent movies if they keep going outside the old Berman-fanboy writing clique for their stories. But coming up with a fresh story every week that covers anything that hasn't been covered? Not doable.
I wish we could make it illegal for movie and TV SF to be retreads of ancient franchises. I particularly felt this way when I was watching a recent ep of BSG. I'd long suspected that the whole thing was just getting made up as they went along. When they hurriedly began killing off minor characters and offering half-assed explanations of previous events, I became convinced of it. And then I saw an interview where he basically said as much!
Of course, he didn't say that in so many words. He just said that when he invented the 12 humanoid cylon "models" he had no idea who they were or what they were about.
So the real reason he invented them has nothing to do with telling a story. He just a mandate to tell a humans-versus-robots story, and he knew that he wasn't going to get the budget to make the robots CGI, and he knew a modern audience would never swallow the lame guys-in-robot-suits from the original.
And why did he need to tell a HVR story? Because he and Ron Moore hand been brought in to revive an existing project that was falling apart over money and a shortage of ideas. (Which Eick supplied mainly in the form of a "retro" universe he was never consistent about.)
And why did that project even exist? Because somebody thought it would be a good idea to revive the BSG franchise, even though the original got cancelled after about 20 eps.
And why was the original ever created? Because NBC wanted to cash in on "Star Wars" and commissioned what amounted to a Star Wars ripoff.
And why did "Star Wars" happen? Because George Lucas realized he could steal ideas from lots of old westerns, war movies, and even Nazi propaganda films, and recycle them for the benefit of audiences that hadn't seen them before.
Hollywood is the opposite of creative.
Didn't see Serenity, did you?
So the thing that makes Firefly "Buffy in Space" is the fact that the movie based on Firefly included fight scenes in which a relatively small woman kicked large amounts of ass?
OK, granted, that's a shared theme. But it's one that's pretty much central to "Buffy" and actually never occurred in the TV show "Firefly".
Of course, even with the ass-kicking I wouldn't call "Serenity" "Buffy in Space" either. Lots of movies feature copious amounts of ass-kicking and still aren't "Buffy".
Bow-ties are cool.
You forget: Most people never made it past season 3 - they have no comprehension of what we mean when we say that the last 3 seasons of DS9 were actually quite good.
innumerable incarnations of 1701. Just make a nice hull and stick with it. Surely, the Federation is not going to spend an astronomical amount of credits rebuilding "Enterprise" over and over. Newer ships would succeed, and would have different names. It's at the point of ridiculousness.
They should draft good stories, and make either miniseries or Movie of the Week, or something. But, wasting all that money on the silver screen is BEYOND EGREGIOUS. Make low-cost-straight-to-DVD if necessary. Make a mix of Enterprise and Voyager somehow. And, for GODS' SAKE, get over it with Kirk and Spock. There are innumerable other crew and scientists who make a nation, navy/fleet/organization.... And, no, don't make them Kirk's brother Samuel, or T'Pal or anyone else emotionally close.
IDIC! IDIC!
Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
Even from the trailers for the new film, I don't see this leading to a long term franchise. We've already had a re-incarnated TOS through Enterprise that didn't really work. I'm not sure why JJ is trying to do it over again. If Enterprise couldn't reinvigorate the series, I seriously doubt that JJ's vision will either.
Worse, we're going back to the origins to try to bring in a younger version of the TOS crew. We've already visited TOS so the rules are set. Enterprise was before TOS and we knew the rules there. Trying to create something that fits between Enterprise and TOS is too small of a time frame to fill with meaningful plots.
To create something to invigorate the Trek brand will take a complete overhaul which will not be in JJ's movie. In fact, I believe it would need to consist of all new stories, new characters and a new context (where the rules don't have to apply). It should probably be set substantially in the future far away from TOS and Enterprise, TNG/DS9/Voyager. All of those show's plot threads need to stay closed. Putting it far enough into the future could allow the rules to change substantially and also the technology. But, keep just enough of the hierarchy and structure of the federation to keep it familiar.
By setting up a new show in this way allows the new series the freedom to do what it needs to do. With JJ's film leaching off of old characters, plots and hardware just ensures it to be a prequel. So, ultimately, JJ's film (and sequels to it) end(s) up saddled with rules that it cannot break... and if it does break the rules, then it's just viewed inconsistent (like Nemesis). A brand new franchise set in the future wouldn't need to uphold any of the old rules. A new show could start fresh with its own new set of rules that it can build upon. This change is what I believe is needed to reinvigorate the Trek franchise.
Although, I will withhold my ultimate judgment until after I've seen JJ's film.
... and the problem with that is what, exactly? Worked for Apollo on BSG. There hasn't been enough buff dude action in Trek since the days of Kirk and Sulu in TOS.
Give Babylon 5 more of a chance, the first season is terrible, to the point that I had a hard time getting through. But someone promised me that if I held out to season two I would be hooked and that I would think it the best Sci Fi out there. Well, the second promise never held, but it is my second favorite Sci Fi out there. And once you hit season 3 you won't be able to stop even to sleep.
didn't they do that in TNG?
"It takes considerable knowledge just to realize the extent of your own ignorance." - Thomas Sowell
I dare say the dialog for Eddington was really a jab a the US administration in its own (then, and possibly could be restated for the current, early administration's) failure or early failures in dealing with or appeasing terrorists and splinter terror groups that could be broken off and pitted against the others.
"Sending them replicators" and "Nobody leaves paradise" could directly be seen today, given that the public stance and backroom stances in various administrations can and did have repercussions.
(Really (for anyone demanding proof), do i need to cite anything to justify what i just wrote, or can this stand unmolested?)
Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
I would die willingly for a leader like Jean Luc Picard. The difference is, J.T.Kirk would make sure I would die for him without ever getting much of a choice as to - whether I wanted to or not.
I loved Kirk growing up, but Picard managed to be a hero and role model when I was already an adult and thought myself past such things.
Whatever the case, give me Klingons off the starboard bow amd Romulans, Gorn and Tholians please.
No Suliban, No Xindi, No god damned lame Kazon. Keep you damn Bajorans and Cardassians too.
Klingons. Disruptors. Cloaking devices! Photon Torpedoes!!
Shields up! Red ALERT!!
Lock phasers and fire!!
.Robert
C'mon. If you want to restart Star Trek, screw JJ Abrams, And forget Bryan Fuller, too.
Give it to Ronald D. Moore and put him in CHARGE of the brand. No Braga, No Berman. Just R.D. Moore.
Let him go do his thing.
.Robert
Starships on Trek have been done. You can't do yet another one, without falling back onto the old formula. DS9 was good because it was a different formula, but even it got stale after a while. Star Trek Academy would suck, please don't do that. If Trek does come back, I'd like to see a show based on the idea of a (Culture reference here) "Special Circumstances" team, a group of top Starfleet specialists who are basically a special operations team that are show into dangerous situations, and with limited equipment and resources they need to resolve a serious problem that concerns the Federation. Or something else. Just not yet another Enterprise.
An "Adolescent-Orgieistic-Anything-I-Can-Get-Uber-(bi)Sexual-Macho-Male" show, where the male grows up to become a Roman analog, conquering his foe, screwing him up the ass, and pining to die a good fight with his lover in the battlefield, but dreading to face his wife back home?
It could have all the underpinnings of the female-written Kirk-on/in-Spock Bruto-Logi-Gayle kirk-professing-love-for-Spock-in-the-Transporter-Room gooeyness.
Afterall, we've had Nerys kissing herself (or, her self), Jadzia Dax kissing a female, and in at least one non-Canon Trek FanFilm episode, gay lovers aboard a starship.
Trek has COME a long way, but not CUM a long way. It could be deep-space-cum-laud with fraternization to the hilt.
But, writing, directing, and producing THOSE episodes would be highly toxic to the career of any non-porn projects(ions).
HIP HIP HOOOOO HOOOO RAISE...
Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
It could be titled "Deep Throbe" (Throat Probe), where inalienable sights lead to spatial anuoblasty.
Given the dearth of Kirks in the Galaxy, "Project Penises" could be the salvation of all humanoid females throughout. By seeding the planetoids with the Penises Probe, new life can be seeded by the beelions...
If Kirk has a labido six women in six days... well WATCH OUT, GREAL'll give it to you in SIX MINUTES.
GORAl will respond, "REAALY, Doctor, you must learn to goh-vern your passions. They will be your undoing. Throbgic suggesssts..."
Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
Any non-std STD that Krik would catch would be low-order detonation mono-nuclearosis.
Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
it's these sort of fanboy conversations that keep me from caring. Were Berman & Braga bad for the Star Trek universe? Probably, but was that universe all that phenomenal to begin with?
You like it or you don't. All this dick-waving about what was best just makes me dislike all of it.
As long as the new TV series airs ANYWHERE but on Fox -- the SciFi Killer.
Oh, and the Enterprise would have to loose the damned 1950's car look they gave it for the movie.
The core location is Starfleet HQ. The UPF and council has some issue appear, they dispatch a ship to investigate. It could be a different ship every time (different crews/casts). This makes huge story arcs possible. Throw in the occasional Section 31 mission to make things fun.
You'd need:
A flagship for diplomacy
A research vessel for weird shit happening in space
A dreadnought for kicking ass
A cloaked ship for getting black ops teams behind enemy lines
You'd have Starfleet characters and UFP ambassadors. You could have follow the dramas of some academy students.
WHAT i DO NOT WANT:
Drama. i don't want BattleStar Galactica characters on a Starfleet vessel. Federation officers are supposed to be elite, well adjusted, smart people who make good decisions. Dramas require people making bad decisions. This is what i fear about this new movie. It will be an action flick with immature, neurotic characters making bad but entertaining choices.
Utilizing the synergization of benchmark e-solutions to pre-workaround action items!
"Also, there are four lights."
You know that was ripped straight from George Orwell, right?
Nope, didn't know that was taken from 1984... (just looked it up) And being now enlightened, I find the world... remarkably unchanged...
Still, it's good to know these things.
Bow-ties are cool.
My girlfriend does not like SciFi at all. I got her to tough out season 1. By the end, she was rather pissed off the "movies" were so crap and the 'Voices' dvds only had the one release.
Now we've moved on to Alien Nation, so we're probably setting ourselves up again...
-- Seq
... then get George Lucas to do it. At least he has talent in that regard.
I've experiments to run, there is research to be done on the people who are still alive.
We'd been warned to skip the first season, so we started with the start of season 2, and quickly understood why, since it seemed like they were scrapping whatever old storylines they had and started over. But we couldn't stomach more than 4 or 5 episodes. We might give it another chance at some point.
Honestly, Season 1 of TNG was nearly as painful, but it had a few terrific actors (Stewart, Spiner, and Burton) that kept it afloat. B5 (or what we saw of it) didn't even have that.
Warning: Apple/Nintendo fangirl. Likes her electronics cute & cuddly. May be rabid.
We'd been warned to skip season 1, so we started at the start of season 2 but couldn't stomach more than 4 or 5 episodes. We'll probably give it another chance at some point. The overarching storyline did seem interesting, but the acting and episode-level writing were both so bad.
Warning: Apple/Nintendo fangirl. Likes her electronics cute & cuddly. May be rabid.
I wouldn't say to skip season 1, because there are some episodes in there that are important to watch. They didn't scrap the old storylines, they simply shifted focus a little. I'd suggest watching at least these episodes from S1:
* And The Sky Full Of Stars
* Signs and Portents
* A Voice in the Wilderness
* Babylon Squared
* The Quality of Mercy
* Chrysalis
Some of these are due to them being good episodes, some because stuff that happens later won't make much sense without watching them.
The acting never gets good. Except for Londo, whose actor manages to impressively develop his ridiculous role.
You really can't skip season 1 even though it's bad. It's also necessary to the plot development. But it's funny -- overall I found it very entertaining from partway into S2 to the end of Season 4. Then season 5 kind of sucked again.
In a way the cheesy episode-level writing masks some very impressive arc-level writing -- not just in terms of "overarching storyline" but even in terms of clearly setting up a one-off episode in season 4 with clues dropped in seasons 1 through 4 and it's COHERENT.