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Look Out, Firefox 3 — IE8 Is Back On Top For Now
CWmike writes "Internet Explorer 8 has shipped in its final version and is ready to take on its rivals. Preston Gralla reviewed it and says the latest version of Microsoft's browser leapfrogs its closest competition, Firefox 3, for basic browsing and productivity features — it has better tab handling, a niftier search bar, a more useful address bar, and new tools that deliver information directly from other Web pages and services. IE8 has also been tweaked for security and includes a so-called 'porn mode,' new anti-malware protection, and better ways to protect your privacy. The most noticeable new features? Accelerators and Web Slices. Think of an Accelerator as a mini-mashup that delivers information from another Web site directly to your current browser page. Web Slices deliver changing information from a Web page you're not actively visiting directly to IE8. There's one big problem for many, though. No add-ins, and there doesn't appear to be such an ecosystem on the horizon. So if you're a fan of add-ins and customizing the browser itself, writes Gralla, Firefox is superior. But for the actual browsing experience, IE8 has the upper hand — for now."
IE's primary function for me will still be as Firefox Downloader 8.0
Looks like a bunch of fluff. Not even anything about raw performance or memory footprint or standards compliance.
Arguing about vi versus Emacs is like arguing whether it's better to make fire by rubbing sticks or banging rocks.
[IE8 has] no add-ins, and there doesn't appear to be such an ecosystem on the horizon.
Never fear; I'm sure there will be plenty soon enough, and they will most likely install themselves! Check here to find out about new ones as they get released.
I Am My Own Worst Enemy
Accelerators and Web Slices both sound like they are big gaping security holes waiting to be exploited.
There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
Yes, thanks to the new javascript a-
Well, crap.
for the same reason it's been in the past: plugins. If you're looking for the best browser out of the box, it looks right now like Firefox may be in last place. It's bloated, has terrible memory management, and has fewer features, but plugins elevate to a level the other browsers wouldn't even want to reach.
Will it prevent Sticky Keys from activating?
What about all those third-party toolbars that proliferated for previous versions of IE? Surely they were built on some kind of extension support. Has it been removed?
Are the Mozilla developers giving them a cake?
With the recipe?
"The cake is a lie" jokes in 3...2...1...
According to Microsoft's own IE8 site, the current version of IE8 is RC1, not a final release. http://www.microsoft.com/windows/Internet-explorer/beta/default.aspx
Angelheaded hipsters burning for the ancient heavenly connection to the starry dynamo in the machinery of night- Ginsber
1. Click this link: http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=ie8 ...
2. On the second search result, read the first line of the description.
3.
4. (Don't) profit!
Finally had enough. Come see us over at https://soylentnews.org/
My first question with every new release of IE is, "How well does it render valid HTML+CSS?"
Yeah, I don't really care if it's fast and has "Web Accelerators". Will it display properly written pages properly? Are developers going to have to keep putting hacks into their pages to deal with IE quirks? If they aren't adhering to standards, then it's not really worth much.
This whole market thingy seems to work.
There is competition driven innovation, and a number of large companies are fighting for the market share.
I like it... although I doubt that my Ubuntu will run IE8, so I guess I won't use IE8 too much - perhaps I'll check it in Wine ;)
Cool as that seems in theory, doesn't automatically reloading the exact state that the tab was in when it crashed mean that it will probably just crash again as soon as you reload it?
You know that kid who rushes to the top of the hill, just knowing that he's finally going to win King of the Hill for the first time ever? Then when he gets to the top of the hill, he's elated when he realizes he's at the top... only to realize a few moments later that all the other kids ran up a different hill?
That's Microsoft.
Javascript + Nintendo DSi = DSiCade
I have this set up with widgets. It is useful to have certain snippets of web pages at ones fingertips. So I agree that it is a cool feature.
OTOH, implanting this in the browser seems like a serious security risk to me. How many times have we seen something like this used to steal someone's password to their bank account or otherwise make people believe they are on a secure site? How will they keep this feature from being hijacked?
In the end this sounds like feature bloat. It is not part of what MS said IE8 would be, which is a faster, more standards based browser.
"She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
What the hell is this supposed to be?
For writing this article you should be scored -1 flamebait! You should know better than to put things like this on /.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has it's limits" - Albert Einstein
Think of an Accelerator as a mini-mashup that delivers information from another Web site directly to your current browser page.
So it's a frame/iframe?
Web Slices deliver changing information from a Web page you're not actively visiting directly to IE8
So it's RSS?
a niftier search bar,
Niftier search bar? What, did they include Clippy?
a more useful address bar,
How much more useful can one make an address bar? It's sole purpose is to provide a place to type in a web address. If by useful, do they mean that horrid Awesome Bar?
and new tools that deliver information directly from other Web pages and services.
Oh joy. Nothing like having your connection come to a crawl as some Flash advertisement tries to load in another page as it it's "delivered" to your system.
Ya know, there's something to be said for simplicity. But then, we are talking about developers who don't know the meaning of simplicity.
We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
Would have been an interesting news if some people didn't hack it, almost the same time the news was being broadcasted...
http://blogs.zdnet.com/security/?p=2934&tag=nl.e589
Microsoft's New Browser Is Better, but Still Not Best
It still fails Acid Test 3 horribly. Not as horribly as previous versions of IE but it still fails horribly. Also, the buttons still look like Windows 3.1.
I'm really enjoying Safari 3, but I can't use IE 8, so I don't know how they compare. However, for the things I actually use a browser for, I'm not sure IE 8 matches Safari. Speed, standards compliance, etc. I like some of the new things Safari offers, like the preview of your most visited sites when you open a new tab, but for me the most important things are speed and stability. Obviously, using a beta I'm giving up a bit of stability, but I love how fast it works. Maybe when MS changes its rendering engine there will be a more accurate comparison.
http://bgcommonsense.blogspot.com
This can't be right. What do they classify as an add-in? Plug-ins the same thing?
What about my google toolbar? Without that, I'd never use IE.
And media plugins like flash, Quicktime, shockwave, etc? They can't get rid of that, it'd be suicide. Hell, even silverlight is an 'add-in.'
I know I'm wrong here, they would never block flash, so what does the "No Add-in" statement mean?
Do not meddle in the affairs of sysadmins, for they are subtle, and quick to anger.
This causes problems with IE8 since it is closer to being correct; these "fixes" throw it off. I am sure that sites will begin to change as IE8 use spreads. Until IE6 finally dies (still has 20% market share) though, I am saddened that the world is still suffer with IE hacks.
One bad thing, reverting back to IE7 is pretty much impossible in most cases.
Another, some old Active X controls do not work.
Ok, one more, they use an interconnected process model like Chrome so that the whole world does not crash when one bad page causes problems. Yeah, that is a great idea, but in my experience, it locks your whole machine and crashes every instance. Boo!
fta:
>If you've abandoned Microsoft's browser for a rival, you may -- or may not -- want to return.
That's a worthless statement. Glad he made the options clear.
Good to see innovation is back in town. I won't be using IE anytime soon, at least not until there is a Linux or OS-X release of the browser. But I'm sure the Firefox, Opera, Chrome, etc. developers are going to take a good hard look at those features, and we'll see the best innovations appear in other browsers really soon. And hopefully even more nifty functions inspired by this.
The last two, three years have seen more innovation in the browser than the ten years before that. FF 1 was nice and up to par - adding tabs but not that much more, FF 2 was a serious improvement, but only in FF 3 I start to see very serious changes and improvements - it starts to feel experimental at times - in an innovative way, something that I don't feel in FF 2. Is it because MS has picked up their pace in UI innovation? Is it because Google has launched Chrome with its super-javascript-engine? Or maybe because alternative Safari has gained mainstream recognition with its Windows version and the iPhone version? Or more likely all of the above?
Interesting times ahead, for sure. Very interesting times. And a lot of hard hard work for anyone involved in browser development to keep their brainchild on top. What a little competition can do! For once I will say: go, Microsoft, go, you're starting to do well in this. Just make sure you stick to the standards as otherwise you won't make it against the competition. The competition is too strong for that kind of tricks already.
I have to admit, the tab management looks nice. Grouping, better placement, and crash isolation are all pretty nifty.
The accelerators and Web slices stuff looks gimmicky; while a few folks might find 'em useful, to me they're just another "don't tell me about this again" feature. The dealbreakers are the lack of add-on support and the usual "We are the standard" attitude. I'll only use it if I must.
I do hope FF mimics its new tab management features or finds a better method.
if no one has already run it, someone try the acid test on it
First, a joke circa 1983: a hardware guy and a software guy (remember, this was 1983) take an HP Unix system to the roof of a 5 story building. They connect a long extension cord, boot it up, and throw it off the roof. There is a resounding crash and they rush down to see the results. "Wow!" shouts the hardware guy, "it's still running!" The software guy shrugs and says, "Yeah, but it's still running HP-UX."
What's my point? It may be better than previous MSIE attempts, but it is still Microsoft, it's still IE, and it still only runs on Windows. As a web designer the rule is still: make it look right in Firefox, then unbreak it in MSIE{6,7,8}.
Think of an Accelerator as a mini-mashup that delivers information from another Web site directly to your current browser page.
Sounds like a *wonderful* malware delivery system.
Web Slices deliver changing information from a Web page you're not actively visiting directly to IE8.
Yet another malware delivery system.
Why, in 2009, are they slapping on another layer of lard on top of their needlessly complex and largely ineffective OS security?
One thing is for sure, they aren't going to stop releasing dumb things like this so I'll never be out of work babysitting their products.
http://www.maxineudall.com/2010/02/should-economists-be-sued-for-malpractice.html
win. this is epic win.
Microsoft has a history of rising up to destroy the browser competition that exists at the time. They also seems to rest on their laurels afterwards in a manner that stagnates web innovation.
This time though, there are a few viable competitors and the Windows platform, while still dominating, has dwindled since the last browser war. So I think healthy competition will hopefully remain in place this round. Nonetheless, Microsoft should not be underestimated - they now see the value of controlling the Web via a dominant browser, and they also have Windows 7 on the horizon, which may or may not increase their OS market share. You can bet on IE8 being a prominent feature in Windows 7 and pushed to existing Windows users.
I wish the underdogs luck!
Browser wars are soooooo last century. And that's the best a billion dollar company can do?
My karma is not a Chameleon.
And all that time I thought that the main feature of a browser was to render so-called "web pages" correctly. I mean, I'm using my browser primarily to access content, not for playing with tabs and search bars. Silly me.
Next time they will tell us that IE9 is better because it has a better embedded Flight Simulator than competitors...
I have discovered a truly marvelous proof of killer sig, which this margin is too narrow to contain.
. . . now that IE8 is out, they can upgrade to IE7?
(My customer is a state government that shall remain nameless)
What?
"Now you can quickly display websites that were designed for older browsers. If youâ(TM)re looking at a page and the text or images arenâ(TM)t lined up right, just use the new Compatibility View button next to the Refresh button on the Address Bar."
I think they mean, websites that were designed for our previous, faulty browser implementations..
"...But for the actual browsing experience..."
Things like "browser experience" are so completely subjective as to have no meaning. The standard counters often include mentions of "general users" and other equally nonsensical strawmen. I don't mind people expressing opinions about their "browser experiences", in fact I think more people should talk about what they like and don't like. What I cringe at is when the difference between a review and opinion piece disappears, or becomes so ambiguous that it might as well be disappeared.
Yes, I know this is a dead horse, but even dead horses deserve a fresh flogging from time to time.
RFC2119
Oooo! We're soooo scared!
So I'm sitting at work on a completely legit machine (our IT department is well funded to ensure we don't use pirate software), but I can't download IE8 (I'm still using IE6). It needs some WGA verification for some updates, but it doesn't work (Firewall issue?). Needless to say, I have a compatibility problem with IE8 and I will not be installing it.
No omnibar, no adblock, no flashgot, or ChatZilla. I'm sorry M$ but I'll stick to firefox.
Although chrome has become more and more tempting for me...the omnibar really helps me to stick to firefox. I love that omnibar ^_^.
PS:
As much as we all hate IE and Microsoft ain't nothing wrong with a little competition. Firefox is starting to become popular so Microsoft is starting to actually develop IE, this will also keep the firefox team on their toes because they need to tweak the browser a bit more and speed it up.
Heck, theyve improved the add-on manager:
http://on10.net/blogs/sarahintampa/21691/
The IE8 blog also lists add-ons as a feature and how to control them via GP.
Not sure what the summary is about. Typically slashdot I guess.
I'm not going to run windows just for "the best web browser." They want to resurrect the Mac IE port, I'm all for that - IE 5 for the Mac was the best browser on the platform until Mozilla came along.
It doesn't matter how "good" IE8 is - it's windows only, and Windows + Internet == Screaming Assrape. While I run windows at home and at work for non-Mac apps, I don't connect to the internet with my windows machines. I don't use samba (I use an SCP client which is slower but imo less of an asspain than windows networking), I don't download anything, and I damn sure don't install anything that didn't come from a vendor disk.
End result : exponentially fewer security problems than friends who run XP on their wintendos.
IE8 could give me winning lottery numbers and blow jobs... but I'm not running a web browser on Windows, ever. It's like having sex without a condom at an STD conference.
If you discount everything unique Mozilla adds - and ignore security - of course Internet Explorer is better, if you don't discount IE's unique features.
The secret to making any decision poorly is to set your criteria correctly to support the conclusion you want to come to.
Vs. Downloading it in 30 seconds for free.
Downloading an 7.5 MB browser installer in 30 seconds needs a 2 Mbps connection. (7.5 MB * 8 bits/byte / 30 s = 2 Mbps.) Satellite and cellphone Internet aren't near that fast. So for a lot of people I know, getting a 2 Mbps connection would require paying at least five figures USD to move to an area serviced by cable or DSL. But I still get your point: even a five minute download is more convenient than having a CD shipped to your door.
No? Then I guess it's still fucking useless for me, isn't it?
"It doesn't cost enough, and it makes too much sense."
Go to the home page
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/internet-explorer/default.aspx
Click on Get the Facts on Browser Performanc
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/internet-explorer/windows/internet-explorer/videos.aspx?mname=IE8_Perf_Test2
You end up here
http://www.microsoft.com/library/errorpages/smarterror.aspx/404?aspxerrorpath=/windows/internet-explorer/windows/internet-explorer/videos.aspx
Pretty smart error - don't you think
Have you ever looked at Firefox bugzilla? Nearly all of the annoying bugs you see on a daily basis cannot be fixed because they cannot be reliably reproduced.
The average user will just throw some more hardware at the problem. Moore's law takes care of all that nicely.
How can a home user buy more hardware to throw at a problem in this credit freeze and layoff spree?
from a web developer at Slashdot who has to use all browsers?
Preston Galla....
Preston Gralla is the author of Windows Vista in a Nutshell, the Windows Vista Pocket Reference, and is the editor of WindowsDevCenter.com.
Or even better...
Preston Galla, Five reasons why Vista beats Mac OS X - Computerworld Blogs
So I tried downloading this on Vista64, from the main webpage, main download link, and it fails to install with the message "This installation does not support your system architecture (32/64bits)"
You'd think that Microsoft might actually test IE on their own operating systems before releasing it.
If the 32bit browser doesn't run on Vista64, then at least be smart enough to autodetect that with a generic installer.
I'm wondering if it will support the HTML5 stuff for Ogg Theora and Ogg Vorbis natively without any need for plugins.
I guess all articles about Linux, Firefox, etc. from Linux-centric sources that get posted on slashdot will be marked "shill", right? And astroturfing too? After all, ComputerWorld is a general computer technology source, so if they are shills for MS, how can a Linux-centric has to be shills for Linux.
Oh, wait, I forgot I was on slashdot, where hypocrisy reigns supreme.
There is no "-1 offended" or "-1 you don't agree with me" mod options for a reason.
Firefox 3 was driving me nuts navigating away from pages while I was typing into a form like this one. I finally figured out what was causing it today.
http://www.gigstaggart.com/blog/?p=76
I've had enough abrasive sigs. Kittens are cute and fuzzy.
Firefox raised the bar with addons. I couldn't imagine browsing without NoScript, FlashBlock and my bookmark organizers.
A slight and likely temporary edge on rendering speed is a long way from putting IE back on top in my book.
Besides, I think Chrome is going to lap the whole field before long.
That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
I don't care how good it is, if it doesn't run on my OS, I don't give a crap.
There's only one piece of extra code needed when a page won't render properly in IE.
<a href="http://www.getfirefox.com">Page doesn't look right? Click here.</a>
But how would I make use of that piece of code on a machine where all of the folders where I have write access have ACLs that apply Windows' equivalent of the UNIX noexec mount option? I can't run an installer or a portable version from the desktop because of the noexec ACL on my home directory (Documents and Settings\username or Users\username depending on OS version), and I can't put it in Program Files because I can't write there.
Microsoft might have a sniffy disdain for Chrome's clean design, but it's borrowed one of the browser's other innovations: dedicating a separate system process to each tab. Microsoft says this will make IE8 more robust, and an automatic crash recovery system, for example, retains text typed into webmail so that users don't have to retype lengthy messages if a tab crashes. We've been unable to replicate that in our tests, but we haven't experienced any problems with the browser's stability in the brief time we've had to test the final code. Security has also been beefed up: domains are highlighted in the address bar (another Chrome steal) to help prevent phishing attacks
Since IE8 has been in development for a really long time and Chrome was shrouded in total secrecy, can anyone with information about their timelines tell us who stole from whom, or if they were parallelly developed? I don't think it's as straightforward as the author says it is.
This space for rent.
"As much as we all hate IE and Microsoft ain't nothing wrong with a little competition."
I wish people wouldn't make blanket statements like that. Personlly, I use IE for regular day-to-day browsing, and Opera for some features I like related to downloads. I have never - EVER - met a version of Firefox I could get along with. Last time I tried was four months ago, and it crashed regularly. It's the only app I have (or, rather, "had") that isn't stable.
On my linux partition I use Firefox, just because it comes preinstalled, and the only sites I visit are IT technology-related and straightforward.
I do development all day, from C++ on Solaris/SPARC to Java front/back. When I browse, I have very simple requirements - the web sites I go to should work. I don't give a damn about Acid tests, I don't care that IE is closed source, and I don't hate Microsoft.
I think I'm representative of a LOT of people, including many on Slashdot.
It glides smoothly. That is what I care about. I use zero addins, etc. Incognito and tab dragging to new windows are nice in chrome, however.
The only reason someone smart might even consider using IE is because he wants Maxthon 2.
If by back on top, you mean still the worst browser in existence, in a hell all by itself, looked down by all other hells and laughed at by .NET itself, then you are correct.
And if out of Beta you mean ready to unleash destruction and a whorenado of damage on wesbites, then you are also correct.
Does it still not have a keyboard shortcut to jump to the address bar? Ctrl+L is still opening that useless dialog.
Firefox is a tank. Crappy mileage, but can handle pretty much anything you throw at it, and even if if can't you can always bolt on something to make it work.
We won't install it at the office. Breaks compatibility with Microsoft Dynamics CRM. heeheeheeheeheehee
I made the mistake of installing IE 8 Beta 1 to test it out. You couldn't uninstall it if you were running SP3 if I recall, but it didn't say that upfront, so I was stuck with it.
Standardss mode actually scored lowered for me on ACID tests than IE7. It was the single slowest browser I had ever tested, and most of our internal intranet pages wouldn't work at all, and they're mostly written in asp by pro-Microsoft guys here.
The IE7 compatibility mode didn't help, and it didn't really seem to replicate how IE7 rendered pages at all that I could tell.
I liked being able to quickly access web services, but it seems like IE8 was just stealing concepts from Flock. I'm married, boring and don't spend all day on Facebook. If I wanted a browser for social networking, I'd run Flock. For the masses who've never heard of Flock, they'll appreciate easily being able to post a photo, or blog.
I'll avoid IE8 final.
http://blindscribblings.com - Tasty pop-culture in conceptual fashion.
No data, just anecdotes. I keep my firefox up to date, 3.0.7 right now, and it's a lot better than it used to be. Right now, I'm under 2 hours into my browsing, have two windows of firefox open, one with 7 tabs, one with no tabs, and it's taking up 215 megabytes of memory. If I sort by memory usage, it comes up with about 1.5x the usage of eclipse and 2.5x the usage of outlook. As I stop typing and check the task manager, I notice that it's taking between 5% and 40% of the cpu on my dual core intel machine without me doing anything on it. There's one flash animation running that's switching out one image for another.
Is browsing the web really so hard that it takes more memory and processing to do it than Eclipse and Outlook combined? It's using roughly twice what IE6 would use under the same circumstances. Like I said, anecdotal and I have no experience in programming a web browser itself, but there's got to be a way to make it so that it's not the heaviest thing running on my machine.
I'll still use Firefox as long as it's open source and IE is a proprietary browser made by a monopoly-grubbing anti-competitionist corporation such as Microsoft with alterior motives and who - if they defeated Mozilla - would choke off development and leave IE -and the internet- to rot again.
Just wait until Opera 10 comes out. It'll own everything else, until Firefox 3.5 comes out. Then Chrome 2.0 will come out and own everything. Then Safari 5.0. Then IE9. Then Opera 11. Then Firefox 4.
AD NAUSEAM.
Colin Dean Go a year without DRM
Where can I download the OS X version of IE8? Oh yeah, IE8 for OS X does not exist... bummer....
But for the actual browsing experience, IE8 has the upper hand -- for now.
And yet IE8 has no gigantic collection of uber-useful add-ons, and it's CSS support is more on a par with FF 1.5 or 2 (at best!), certainly nowhere NEAR FF 3 or Webkit-based browsers like Safari & Chrome. And if you think IE8 is going to be secure (They promised it was a priority this time!), then I've got several bridges to sell you.
MS could make things a lot better for web developers by forcing IE8 upgrades on anyone using IE6, though, at least on platforms that support IE8. That box model... *shudder*
With 8 tabs open, Firefox takes more memory than the next 3 highest applications on my computer (eclipse, outlook, itunes). This is not even two hours after opening it in the morning and starting with a brand new session. Later in the day it won't be uncommon for it to be over 400 megabytes. It's better than Firefox 2, but it's still terrible.
adblock? flashblock? IE8 does not do those among a host of other features and add-ins of Firefox. Any millisecond of speed you "might" get in IE8 is lost by never downloading crap html in the first place. Firefox is superior and it will not change anything soon.
Microsoft still does not get it. Their marketing strategy to try to squeeze every cent out of their software at the expense of their actual End Customer is pretty much guaranteeing they will never catch up.
I am not a linux/firefox fanboy, so I am going to assess this browser fairly and try to answer a few questions brought up on this thread. Since I am probably the only user here running Windows by choice, so I consider this a duty. Furthermore, I am an Opera user, so my expectations for speed and performance are totally insane and unreasonable.
First off, what's wrong:
* I am using IE 8 to write this comment and I am already missing my integrated spel chekkar.
* All the fun browser hacks I use to test new browsers are not working still, so the standards support of this release is the same as before. Of course, you won't see too much upper level DOM and advanced CSS on the part of web people actually use.
* The tabs seem to open really slow, but I believe it is actually process isolating its tabs now. The memory use per tab is about 10-30 mb, which is around if not slightly below where Chrome is on this system.
* Acid 3: 12/100
What's right:
* The page loads are brutally fast- faster than Opera 10 in some cases. For instance, MSNBC and BBC News, two of my favorite sites pop up at crazy speed. However, Slashdot --which is specifically engineered to run poorly on every new release of IE (it's very firefox-quirky)-- comes up quite slowly. When I first saw the page load charts that Microsoft put out, my first response was that there was a good reason Opera wasn't on that chart- but IE did a fantastic job of playing to the most popular websites. Keep this in mind if you are either a facebook user or stalking your kids on facebook.
* If you only use IE to download firefox, you will be happy to know that the mozilla webpage loads faster on IE than any other browser, firefox included.
Conclusion:
The overall interface of the browser is quite nice. If you're used to using Firefox, this is actually much faster and handles its memory better and such. However, Firefox is not a particularly fast or well designed browser. The interface will feel sluggish if you're used to Opera or Chrome. As an Opera user, my idea of browsing the web involves launching through pages at break-neck speed middle-clicking links as I go along and loading about 20-30 tabs at a time. I have a feeling my computer would explode if I did that with IE 8. However, the same could be said for Firefox 3.
The article is quite correct in saying that this browser is very fast and correct for the real web which most people browse- and that's something that should be noted. It seems as though Firefox has gotten so obsessed with javascript benchmarks and other such fluff that it's let its real world performance slide to the extent that it's now being challenged by IE.
Since IE is still totally unchallenged by other browsers in terms of enterprise features like advanced group policy, this new release of IE will simply mean that browsing the web at work/school will be a lot less lame and obnoxious... but considering the state of the economy, you should be all be working very very hard right now.
If you have any questions or challenges for IE 8 and don't run windows or ie 8, let me know and I will give you the results.
Gimme gimme gimme!
Who? Who is but the form following the function of what and what I am is a man in a mask.
So, being a web developer, the first thing I did after seeing this news was look for the standalone version of IE8, so that I can run it next to IE7 and test in both. No such luck. So I called their support line, and spoke to some guy in India with a fake American-sounding name, who told me that I couldn't run IE7 and IE8 at the same time. He's probably right, if you discount the Virtual PC option.
So can anyone out there point me at a free virtual PC image that runs IE7 or IE8 so that I can do my QA work? Or to a standalone version of IE8?
Thanks in advance.
Please stop hurting America -- Jon Stewart
[rant] Yes, more IE versions to code for, because you aren't having fun coding websites until you have one set of compliant code for Firefox/Safari and 3 or 4 other versions to make IE sort of work under most configurations. Oh, and why is it there is still no easy way to make things like rounded corner on ANY version of IE? I know CSS3 hasn't been adopted yet, but geez. How about an easy workaround that doesn't involve roundish looking images that don't scale well to different resolution... Oh, and Opera - I'm looking at you too, but only about round corners, so you can be forgiven. [/rant]
Get a web developer
"Think of an Accelerator as a mini-mashup that delivers information from another Web site directly to your current browser page. Web Slices deliver changing information from a Web page you're not actively visiting directly to IE8."
Umm. Assuming I was a fucked-in-the-head workaholic or info junkie who needs to browse more than one web page at a time, or needs to browse the web when not browsing the web (??), these features are useful. Oops! I'm not one of those. IE8 isn't even on my radar. Microsoft thinks stuffing MORE WEBS in your face is a winning feature? I guess if you can't attain quality, you have to go with quantity.
PS I'll think of an Accelerator as a pedal in my car or a key I can combine with Alt to tickle the GUI. Nothing else, thanks. This is the best name the lofty Microsoft brain trust could come up with for this feature... super job guys, keep at it.
...will immediately cause you to download and install every spyware, malware, and adware removal program due to the enormous security holes caused by its "new nifty features" you can dump perfume on a giant turd, put it in formalwear and call it "Ms. Arkansas" but it's still a giant turd.
...I use SRWare Iron, which is a derivative that includes an adblocker...
I've been all over what is apparently its page, and while it talks alot about privacy (good), I see nothing about an adblocker. Does it require some 3rd-party proxy or something?
Even so, I imagine it would still be missing the functionality of NoScript and CookieSafe.
(T>t && O(n)--) == sqrt(666)
First off, tabs suck.
Second, I like hitting wikipedia directly in FF.
Third, FF's awesome bar is, well, awesome.
Fourth, IE sucks.
I want to delete my account but Slashdot doesn't allow it.
adblock? flashblock?
you missed one : Noscript.
Yes, I'm left. You have a problem with that?
so to run the video from the point where it was, the browser has to know, what position that would be. afaik adobe flash, quicktime, realplayer, java etc. don't interact with external software very much... so the interface, that is necessary for this feature, is giving silverlight and windows mediaplayer a headstart?
antitrust lawsuits, anyone?
The MAFIAA is a bunch of mindless jerks who will be the first up against the wall when the revolution comes
This is clearly wrong. We here at /. do not believe that M$ makes anything good. So this is complete BS!!!
IE8 renders web pages differently from IE7. Unless the web site being viewed is switched into âoecompatibility viewâ either manually by the end user or by being coded with a metatag by the web developer there could be some funky results. The most common ones I saw while testing IE8 was that drop down boxes did not always work as expected, Java script did not always run as expected, and pages sometimes would render with very small text or with missing frames.
In America today you can murder land for private profit. You can leave the corpse for all to see, and nobody calls the c
This is nothing new (atleast for me).
I am very small, utmostly microscopic.
I'd have to say that ie8 looks identical to all previous versions:
I sure don't see any fancy tabs, and I have no idea why you'd even try to compare it to firefox. :)
i dont even have windows to run it ;-)
nice for those who have...
Saludos, Anibal Ojeda http://anibalnet.nl
...i guess if it delivers a 'superior' browsing experience to Firefox, Microsoft must have caught up with javascript performance, CSS3, HTML Canvas, MathML, SVG, proper DOM support, and XHTML. Once I have verified the quality of Microsoft implementation this minimal feature set, I'll then consider deploying it to my user base. If Microsoft disappoints in more than a few of these areas, I will never again look at IE.
I was all excited when I heard Microsoft came out with the best browser ever. Too bad when I went to download it they asked me to choose my operating system, but only listed different windows versions as options. I picked windows XP but it wouldn't even extract under WINE. Guess I'm just stuck with this crappy firefox browser...
Is this just fishing for page views? On what planet are they thinking the IE8 experience is better than any of the alternatives?
I've been using the IE8 builds at work since they released the beta. Sure, it's leaps and bounds better than IE7, which itself was better than IE6. But it still doesn't come close to Firefox or Chrome.
Even forgetting the extensions like AdBlock, IE's UI and rendering just feels sluggish after using Firefox or Chrome.
What is the crack they're smoking at computerworld?
Anyone think it's somewhat fishy that the person who posted this has computerworld.com as their URL and the article points to the article at CW. Yep. Fluff for ad traffic.
it is still only supported on one alleged OS.
This is not news... who cares.....
Go away IE and take MS with you!
1311393600 - Back to Black
Show me the IE equivalents of Adblock, Firebug and Greasemonkey.
... IE8 is Windows-only. And not even all versions of Windows that Microsoft supports, just some. How good can IE8 really be if Microsoft does not even support it on all of the Microsoft OS's?
1. "Detect MS Enemy"
2. "IfEnemy ScrewUpSiteLoad"
Examples:
A. Slashdot, the leading forum for Linux promotion
B. Google Gears Installed = IE8 hoses pages.
Wheee!
My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
Really, when Microsoft PR gets posted on slashdot as blatantly as this, I wonder if it wouldn't just be easier to offer Microsoft an editor position/seat at slashdot?
That way we'd know which articles to lend credibility to and which to add to adblocker.
Try this one.
A. (Tried replying to your comment.) HardError on page. (No eply Possible.)
B. Enabled Compatibility View:
(Got stuck once - had to reload)
Only then did I see your described page ugliness.
(Switched to Firefox to post comment.)
My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
"WE'RE LAUNCHING Internet Explorer 8!!! Anyone? Hello? Anyone? Is this mic on?..."
Right now, based on the poor memory usage of the recent builds of FF3, anything is better. FF gobbling up all my available ram and then crashing every couple of hours has made me uninstall it. So, I'd say this is a non-story.
-Kinsey
...some Firefox fan has told me it's superior because it has addins and IE doesn't. I hate FUD, no matter who's spreading it
This has annoyed me no end but it is probably hopeless to ever fix, just like "hacker".
"FUD" is supposed to mean "fear, uncertainty, and doubt". For some reason it has ended up meaning "lie", which is the wrong use.
Saying "IE does not support plugins" might be a lie, but is not FUD. Saying "Microsoft plans to stop supporting plugins" is an example of FUD. It has nothing to do with whether it is true or false, but with it being some future, negative, unknown.
I unfortunately remember Netscape 4.71, bloated, too many features, non-standard rendering.
IE was just simpler back then so it gained market share. Then when IE got stale in came lean and mean FF.
But today both FF and IE seem just as bloated as Netscape 4.71 ever was.. So I've switched to lean and mean Chrome.
Some people just want a browser that does NOT come with a toaster and a nuclear power plant.
http://www.opera.com/
Well, props to Microsoft. I just downloaded IE 8 at this link: http://www.microsoft.com/windows/internet-explorer/default.aspx I figured it might be slow, or unreachable - but, guess what? Average download speed: 1.48 MB / Sec. Wow. Two possibilities here: 1) They threw some serious bandwidth at this thing. Or, 2) IE 8 is already a dismal failure because only 17 people in the entire United States have downloaded it so far today. I'm guessing #1 - but you may disagree...
I can't see any improvement over IE 5.2.3 on my Mac
SVG support is still missing.
Why would anyone consider this, if they can't add an 8 year old standard?
Such convenience! Virally, IE is superior to Firefox. :P
//Nothing to see here, please move along.
You now have finally arrived in the year 2003 technologywise...
Btw. where is SVG?
a good article by Ed Bott from Zdnet highlighting the usability improvements in IE8 http://blogs.zdnet.com/Bott/?p=731
I switched over to Windows just to give IE8 a "spin" and of course 2 minutes after installing it and running it for the first time I got the Blue Screen of Death. Back to the drawing board dipshits.
So long as it's still got ActiveX in there, I gotta consider it "not acceptable".
All built in. Adblock has to be, as usual, provided with a list: http://www.fanboy.co.nz/adblock/opera/ (according to my buddy who moved FF->Opera, works just as well for blocking, slightly better for hiding empty spots)
I'm almost used to the way how those facts are ignored (still, I don't get that implied thing in the summary that FF was on top...)
One that hath name thou can not otter
What if you didn't want to use google maps for mapping? What if you wanted to use Yahoo Maps instead? That is the whole idea here. Let me decide what service to use for things like addresses.
Think of phone numbers. With a craftily written accelerator, Skype could be brought up by clicking on a phone number embedded on a page. Or, maybe it will do fancy crap with your corporate phone network and dial it for you that way... bottom line is it is my decision to make.
New IE8 still the slowest browser
Microsoft's final code comes in dead last in JavaScript benchmark tests
But the real reason most people are leaving IE is not speed:
Webchunks - does what webslices does, but works on any part of any page.
Activities - before IE changed the name to "Accelerators".
>But for the actual browsing experience, IE8 has the upper hand-- for now
Perhaps for the moment. But it has NO upper hand at all if you are not running MS Windows. If you are using Linux, BSD, Solaris, MacOS, or any other system, IE is not, has not, and will not be an option.
Wake me up when it is multi-platform...
http://digg.com/odd_stuff/Firefox_v_s_Opera_v_s_Internet_Explorer_PIC
Got one for ya.
(CharlieBrownMde - Trust MS)
0. Set SysRestore Point out of eternal MS trust.
1. Download IE8.
2. Mouse stops working.
2.1 Swear at MS
2.5 (Fluke Hardware event - Batteries)
3. System Restore to BeforeIE* while diagnosing hardware.
3.5 (Fix Mouse with new batteries.)
4. Open Slashdot to see what it used to look like in IE7.
5. "IE7 encountered a fatal problem and must close." - Not a fluke.
5.1 Moment of Disbelief
5.2 REALLY swear at MS
5.3 Sent MS their FailReport
5.5 IE8 eats something that SysRestore can't fix??!
(/CharlieBrown as LucyMS does it again)
Time to start troubleshooting.
Use FIREFOX to download troubleshoot tools
MS - Comingling Malice and Incompetence to brilliant effect since ___
My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
With "Display alert for all script errors", the first page that IE8 brings up after install says:
Webpage error details
User Agent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 8.0; Windows NT 6.0; WOW64;.. etc
Timestamp: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 22:28:03 UTC
Message: 'Image' is undefined
Line: 711
Char: 3
Code: 0
URI: http://www.microsoft.com/windows/Framework/js/wt.js
I notice the trend to re-engineer sites to be more complex and less useful
/. are awful
The parent is right, the UI pages on
and the new Freshmeat3 is worse.
Reading the article, it reads more like "Welcome to the 21'st Century Microsoft - you're doing *so* much better than you were . . ."
There are some nice features - that I have already via firefox extensions (colored tabs).
There are some buggy features that I don't particularly see the point of (What exactly does webslices do that RSS doesn't?)
And the security is, supposedly, finally up to what I expect from any other browser five years ago. One hopes.
So we have a bunch of features, most of which belong in extensionspace, a number of them buggy, and some of them we're frankly accepting Microsoft's word that they're vastly improved, and this is referred to as 'Leapfrogging'.
Kinda like how my Mom was so proud of me when I was seven and she actually started having to pay attention when we played chess, except I don't have that emotional investment in Microsoft.
Okey dokey then.
Pug
An Invisible Entity of Vast Power whose existence must be taken on faith alone: Liberal Media
You get to be replied to.
I tried being funny above, but now I'm kinda scared.
For once I tried installing something new on my project machine instead of the testbox. (Thank god not at work!)
See my longer post above:
I tried SysRestore to "Yesterday" and nearly lost XP.
My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
Windows is uniformly slower and more un-reliable than Linux. That is when it has competant enterprise support.
It is inherrently insecure, due to Active X.
It is buggy, and you cant trust the M$ fixes, so support is a huge enterprise problem.
The lock-in applications are mostly un-auditable Excel/Word macros and crap proprietary VB code, which should have been banned under Sarbanes-Oxley already. This must STOP, All busnisses are responsible for their conduct even if it is the consequence of crock closed source code. When CEO' fear to go to jail the closed EULAs will stop and proper financial oversight will insist that, at least in major financial applications, all code and applications are to be auditable. The same rule must apply to any computer aided voting machinery.
Hi Mods who trolled Parent.
Does being unable to SysRestore to yesterday without hosing Windows count as a security hole?
My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
Anyone notice how the 64-bit OS versions of IE8 downloads are anywhere from 50% to 100% larger than their 32-bit equivalents? Anyone have a good explanation for this? (And I don't mean that 64-bits are twice as big as 32-bits. If every 64-bit app doubles its code size then you lose a great deal simply by the fact that the program has to load twice as much code to execute in limited cache space.)
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
Tried IE8, immediately stopped, went back to using firefox.
IE8 was clunky, slow, and annoying. Why does it insist I can only have so many tabs at once? Not enough search engines either. Couldn't figure out where I wanted to go without me being explicit. Crashed on me multiple times.
Yea, firefox over IE anyday.
IE Anything will likely have more bugs than features.
So IE8 is out...so what? I will not be trying it as:
Its M$
The WinXp install on my multiboot machin is only used for a few games and is blocked from the internet in my router
Its M$
>>Accelerators and Web Slices. Think of an Accelerator as a mini-mashup that delivers information from another Web site directly to your current browser page. Web Slices deliver changing information from a Web page you're not actively visiting directly to IE8. So it adds a bunch of JUNK that will be disabled by many webpages (Fasterfox == this Accelerators) due to bandwidth abuse and has this Web slice thing to download pages I don't want to go to or are NOT going to. What a waste...does this thing browse the internet anymore...at all.. Considering there is windiz update out there, IE is useless now. Also, tell me when they fix Firefox 3 to be less bloated and crappier than Firefox 2.
just as soon as it turns up in the Ubuntu repos.
So what is "Porn Mode"? You can browse with only one hand?
My sig is better than your sig.
I am a Firefox fan, although a dying one since its quirks are starting to annoy me, but I don't have an interest in returning to IE for more than one reason. The latest reason is because IE8 doesn't support my older software--Older Microsoft software. Microsoft Money 98 no longer runs under IE8 stating that its missing IE components. I'm still looking to replace my money software, but I have yet to find any competitive OSS alternatives. Until then I refuse to use IE8.
Actually, Windiz Update hasn't had a new update added to it since November 2007, and probably never will again.
For a site about things like basic rights, Slashdot users sure do like to censor "dissent".
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1147437&cid=27056793
See the URL above where The End of Days admits his use of multiple registered accounts here to mod himself up and to create the illusion of others agreeing with and supporting his postings. Therefore, I wouldn't pay the +4 "Insightful" modding up score his reply I am replying to has, too much attention, because of his lame practice of modding himeslf up. I don't think anyone reading will lend it much credence either at this point because it's most likely he modding himself up because of his admission of this lame practice on his part in the URL above. (Read it for yourselves, and decide for yourselves on this account).
But it still looks like the barrier to entry for IE plugins are much higher, so they'll necessarily lag behind Firefox's.
Firebug may not be 'necessary', but it's damn useful.