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How To Store Internal Hard Drives?
mike writes "I have been ripping all my movies and TV shows for easy viewing through a media PC. Because I would rather not rip everything again I'm looking for a simple backup solution. I'm considering a hard drive dock and several internal hard drives to use as 'disks' to back things up every once in a while but I don't know what the best way to store internal drives would be in the meantime. Could they sit together in any empty box and be OK, or would a number of externals be worth the slightly higher cost with fewer worries about storing them in the meantime?"
Both methods have pros and cons. Which appeals to you and your budget more? Choose that one. Any clean, dry, vibration-free storage is good for removed internal drives.
Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others.
I got nothin.
A fireproof/waterproof safe is good for that and a number of other items as well. Just make sure to also keep some moisture control in there as well (silica gel etc.). I would also keep them in an esd bag.
You should store them in the plastic containers they came in: http://www.ixbt.com/storage/scsi2005/roundup/fujitsu-pack.jpg These plastic boxes are anti-static and the bumps provide a modicum of shock absorbance. You might also want to add a (fresh) silica pack to prevent moisture from building up.
Buy a cheap used box from a local shop.
You can get P4 class boxes for around $100.
Stuff it full of drives, set up software raid and keep everything there.
In addition to providing a nice place to store backups, you can also use it for primary storage. I assume since you're ripping video that this is an HT-PC.
I prefer not to have a bunch of loud HDD's in my HT-PC. Put that crap in a closet.
If so, it might be smart to install/store them in inexpensive, standard USB disk enclosure caddies. That way, when you do need to go back to your archive, you can pop 'em into your USB port and they're ready to go straight away! And if you go for one of those book-style enclosures, it makes for a neat way to store them too.
I use a removable chassis system (with built in fans). Hard drives have trouble catching viruses or wearing out if they are sitting in a drawer.
I keep the chassis in one of those little plastic sets of drawers from Target. Works like a champ.
Why don't you try a box and use magnets as packing peanuts? Be sure to leave them in a hot, humid place, like a shower, and never every spin them up
Dry, cool, and individually placed in anti-static bags, just be sure to spin them up every so often.
The force that blew the Big Bang continues to accelerate.
At work, we would routinely have to deal with 5-10 hard drives a day and probably would order 40-60 a month. We stored them in anti-static bags in a bankers box. While that's not the exact brand we used (we bought them in 100 packs), its similar. During the few years we used those bags, we did not lose a single drive to storage loss. There were drives that were DOA or died during processing, or were dropped, but we never pulled a drive that was working the previous time only to discover that it was dead when we pulled it.
As for hookup, you have a couple of options. If you are going to do casual use, you can get an esata dock. It doesn't have a fan, but for all but the most intense use, it should be sufficient for transfering files and weekly backups. If you're looking for more, go with sata sleds (again not the brand I used, but similar), you can screw your hard drives into those and if your sata controller supports it, hot swap the drives. You can also buy extra sleds so that you can swap out your drives without having to handle the internal drive.
Is it sad that I am more likely to recognize you and your posts by your sig than your name or UID?
Back in the olden days of file sharing I had 2 scsi hard drive chasis that could support mulitple 9 gb hd drives daisy chained in my basement. I also had a couple of dat tape drive down there.
Professionals keep (at least) one off-site backup. You could rent a private locker in a bank or some other organization or make an online backup deal. I do use (two) USB disks for backups. They are pretty portable, fairly robust, plug in nearly every computer, have decent speed and good capacity.
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Unless it's one known for its ability to work on various and sundry drives (as opposed to identical ones), and probably built into whatever OS OP is running...don't recommend softraid.
Controller card/motherboard goes, or enough drives go and all his data's gone.
While trying to scrounge up the funds for a super sexy NAS, I took an old G4 Mac I got on Ebay and followed some directions to throw in some extra drives. There are plenty of 'diy' NAS instructions on the net to take advantage of old PCs that you might have floating around.
I actually ran CAT5 to my detached garage. I think whatever your solution is (box, NAS, diy NAS) you should consider storing it 'off site' from your main house to ensure survivability if there is some fire or other disaster.
Whatever route you choose, keep in mind that hard drives as a whole have terribly high failure rate (about 1 in 8 fail in my experience). Also, regardless of your chosen media, be sure to research the lifespan of your storage. If you are looking for long term (more than a couple years) and dependability you are going to be spending more than you would on a cheap raid box.
As much as I HATE to say it, magnetic tape is the ONLY storage media that has not failed me yet.
I like these guys: http://www.wiebetech.com/products/cases.php It's an anti-static, somewhat shock-mounted plastic case for 3.5" drives. I've got about a dozen stacked in a rubbermaid box. It eliminates the stress of the drives banging into each other, even in anti-static bags. I've never dropped a drive inside one of these, but i'll bet it'd survive a modest height.
It sounds like you want a backup to store the drive allready in the computer, although it could be you don't have enough storage and are just storing files on external drives. (Say movies ripped from DVD or so...)
In either case, it's probably easiest to make a network attached storage device (aka Linux server) to copy everything to.
Computer1: Primary use computer
OldComputer2: NAS in closet... You can get an old P3 (low heat producing) with a bunch of drive bays, and a PCI SATA card ($50). Use a junky IDE drive for the OS, and make a raid5 of several large capacity drives.
The advantage of this is that you can synch your existing "workstation" to the NAS, and get the files you were considering on external HD's on the fly. Moving HDs around is not really recommended, as there is a good chance you will damage them. There are many guides to configuring this, which you can find via google.
Note: a PCI SATA adaptor will limit you to about 1Gb/s throughput. Convient as a Gb Ethernet is the current networking standard.
I actually had the same problem. I've got my entire 1,000+ Movie DVD and 400+ Television collection ripped to hard drive for use as streaming media to a media PC. I've been working on it for about 4 years now.
I ended up buying and setting up a bare-bones computers with RAID capabilities. Get a big tower with plenty of cooling. I originally used your same method. I purchased hard drives and external hard drive enclosures. This was cheaper than building pre-made drives. I especially like Vantec enclosures. However, I had a couple of drives go bad over the years. After some experimentation, I found that underpowered drives tend to loose data.
Now, I use the aforementioned RAID 1 solution. Originally I used 400gb drives but now I'm up to purchasing 1-TB drives. I've only had 1 drive go bad in the last 3 years and it was easily replaced with no loss of data. You could probably use Raid 5 just as easily, but my first setup didn't support it so I defaulted to Raid 1. The extra controller cars also used to be cheaper for RAID 1 but the costs have since equalized.
For the moment, I would advise against the 2TB drives. Many have serious slowdown problems and the cost/storage ratio is to high. 1.5tb drives are looking better and better.
Just remember good cooling! This may be the most important factor. Hot hard drives last a MUCH shorter time. I REALLY like Thermatake icage bays. They change 3-5.25" bays into 3-3.5" hard drive bays and have a really nice 120x120 fan on them to keep the drives cool.
If you buy a hard drive a month you can get some enormous storage capacity really quickly without breaking the bank. I'm up to 8TB right now. (16TB of drives).
The things to protect internal hard drives from:
Heat (demagnetizes the data) Humidity (makes parts fail faster) Dust (makes parts fail faster) Static Electricity (no special explanation) Vibrations (makes parts fail faster, depending of the direction of the vibration) Wear and Tear of connecting/disconnecting
Don't just use an old shoe box. Use non-static bags and a humidity absorber, cushion the box you do use, and make sure you handle them with care (the connectors aren't exactly heavy duty).
External hard drives solve several problems: the wear and tear is reduced, but you'd have to find a completely airtight product to protect from humidity and such.
IMHO, you should buy an external hard drive bay, with the option to have about a terabyte of data.
After all, the less you move it around, the fewer problems there are. Just maintain it (clean the vents, make sure the fan is working), keep it connected to the computer, and you're golden.
The hassle of dealing with broken parts is MUCH more expensive than just putting a little bit of money into a hard drive bay. Consider getting one of those external bays that let you mount internal hard drives (duplicate if you need to, but 1 TB should be enough) and make sure the PSU doesn't give you dirty power.
There are no perfect answers, only the right questions. More questions at http://foresightandhindsight.blogspot.com/
I just recently addressed this problem myself. My solution, although a little pricey compared to just stuffing an old box with hard drives, was to get one of these guys and put 5 1 TB drives into it. I have it running in a software RAID5, backing up everything from my server (media, subversion repository, etc) via a nightly cron job rsyncing between the server disks and the enclosure. So far it's been working like a charm.
The OP already has the online storage covered. This is regarding using HDD's for offline (not spinning) storage. Even if they're not being accessed and are physically separate from the primary storage, you still are subject to wear (spinning platters) and things like power surges.
Putting the dries back into their orignal enclosures, or perhaps an "OEM Pack" piece of foam (with anti-static bags) may be the best option. Better, consider putting the whole mess into a media-rated fire-safe.
Do a backup, drop it in the safe deposit box at the bank, take the other one out. Next quarter, rotate them.
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1Tb external 'books' are enclosed, store and look like books, can be labeled like books, and can be unplugged and plugged in like they're removable media. And they're not that expensive.
Best regards.
Buy a cheap-o all-in-1 mobo/CPU/RAM/case combo. Fill it up with cheap TB sata disks in a software RAID. Add a dynamic DNS name, ssh server, and rsync. Plug it in at your mom's house, rsync your local fileserver with that one every night at 4am.
I thought about buying a fireproof save and external hard drives, but I realized I would not have the discipline to archive to them regularly. With the solution I posted, no discipline is required after the initial setup, and it would save you even thieves empties your safe.
A slashdotter who didn't build his own computer is like a Jedi who didn't build his own lightsaber.
Well, you could store them internally.
FATMOUSE + YOU = FATMOUSE
Store em on the floor of your mom's basement like i do. Just don't step on them when you get up to get more pizza.
I have this really funny quote that I like to put here. Unfortunately, there's this really annoying thing called a char
The pirate bay backup(tm) offers a free and easy 4 step method to backup most movies/tv shows. .torrent of all your movies
1) create
2) upload to TPBB(tm) trackers
3) seed
4) In case of catastrophic harddrive failure/house being nuked from oribt, re-download all your movies
Advantages of TPBB over conventional backup methods
*Off-site - the backups are held of site in multiple unsecured locations
*Distributed - these locations are distributed across multiple contents
*Unlimited storage - You can even backup more content than your hard drive has space for
*Content Filtering - TPBB will filter out boring content, ensuring just worthwhile movies are kept
**Please consult your lawyer before using TPBB as we are not responsible for any legal disputes in your jurisdiction.
IranAir Flight 655 never forget!
They don't guarantee you don't lose your data, but it's probably more safe than what you can come up with yourself.
The only big advantage of the externals is that the connectors are a bit more robust, so if you're going to plug/unplug them a LOT, you're a bit better off.
But for maximum longevity you should take 'vibration free' seriously. That is, you shouldn't lay a drive on a hard table, because when you set it there there's a surprisingly large impact. Set it on a layer of bubblewrap or foam, instead.
If you have humidity issues, I believe you can collect desiccant packets from other things and bake them on low heat to 'refresh' them (bake out the existing humidity) Ideally do this baking with good ventilation.
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Buy a tape drive.
And store your old drives somewhere dry and protected eg. a fireproof safe with some desicant
I made a deal with a friend of mine. We each keep a backup of each others data. Its an off site fairly up to date replica of all our important data. We each have FTP servers running so everything is always available when needed. Neither of us run a RAID setup anymore. the money saved from not having to buy more disks and controllers allows us both to increase our total storage capacity as well. The chances that we will both have a drive fail or a disaster take out both servers are pretty slim too.
When you need to back up, turn on the machine.
When you're done, shut it down.
Offline storage at it's finest.
Then you have never used round reel tapes. Tape de-magnetizes.
Ever seen a videotape recorded in the 80's? A lot of em look like static now.
Maybe not directly relevant to the OP's question but since I see a bunch of folks mentioning using RAID, i thought i'd chime in about RAID5 survivability.
RAID5 protects you against one failure in a stripe. if you lose a drive, that's a failure. If you have a read error on a particular sector, that is another failure, and your data is gone.
the probability of a read error *somewhere* on a 1TB drive is actually quite high.
So, you lose a drive, you go to rebuild, you find you have a read error and can't get your data.
This can mean a few things.
1) lose a particular bit of data. Maybe you don't care, if you're archiving DVDs you'll probably cope just fine. If it's important data you'll be sad.
2) can't rebuild your RAID. Some RAID controllers will just give up if they get a read error during a rebuild, so then you have to back up the recoverable portion of your data (probably the vast majority), rebuild the RAID, etc.
I don't know how the various software RAIDs cope with this. I had this happen with a dell/lsilogic hardware raid card.
In my case, the read error was not something i noticed when i backed up and restored the data onto a new raid, but the parity didn't match so it wouldn't rebuild. It very well may have been on an unused portion of the filesystem.
solutions/mitigations:
1) scrub your RAID5's regularly. this process checks everything over and fixes any errors while you still have a full RAID5 set. This will reduce your chance of failure greatly.
2) use RAID6. it adds an extra drive's worth of redundancy.
3) use http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parchive or some similar additional layer of redundancy.
You should also consider running an OS that supports ZFS (FreeBSD, OpenSolaris, Nexenta). It has additional data checksumming that can help. ZFS has software raid built in.
Several good blog posts on this subject here:
http://blogs.sun.com/relling/tags/mttdl
He talks specifically about Solaris & ZFS, but the reliability stuff is generally applicable. RAID-Z is basically equivalent to RAID5; RAID-Z2 is basically RAID6.
Damn. Where do I get those?
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They're easy to handle and store. But if you're going to use singles then you need to get the packaging material they ship bulk drives in, and put the drives in ZIPLOC antistatic baggies with those little moisture packets. Both are readily and inexpensively available via mail order.
External disk enclosures do little to protect hard drives.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
A great way to get free anti-static bags is to order samples from semiconductor companies like TI and Analog Devices. They'll send you free stuff wrapped up in decently sized anti-static bags. Great for if you only have a couple drives to store, but if you need 10, for example, just go ahead and buy some.
I prefer to store mine in the cellar. Make sure you remove the lights and the stairs. Place the hard drives in a locked filing cabinet in an unused bathroom. And put a sign "Beware of the Leopard" on the bathroom door. That's the first place people would look for it. :P
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
I have two home-built servers: one is an always-on, live NAS; the other is a backup server that I power on only to do backups (or restores if it comes to that). First rule I go by: always use the slower 5400 RPM drives, such as the Western Digital "Green" or the Samsung EcoGreen. For both media streaming and backup purposes, these hard drives are still plenty fast. The biggest benefit, though, is that they use less energy (particularly important if your system is always on), and don't get as hot, making cooling much easier (which usually also translates to quieter).
My live server is currently 4 x 1TB drives in RAID-5, using Linux software RAID. (I know RAID is no substitute for backup, but I still consider it "quasi" backup. But I also have real backup.) This system is fairly un-interesting: it's your typical DIY NAS.
The backup server is housed in the Norco RPC-4020. For $300, you get 24 SATA hot-swap bays. That price is hard to beat. I haven't filled this case up with drives yet, and I have plenty of physical space going forward. The hardware is just some unused spare components I had lying around. Extra SATA ports are provided by the Supermicro AOC-SAT2-MV8 (which works fine in "regular" 32-bit PCI slots).
This, IMO, is a pretty simple set up. I just power up the backup server whenever I need it, and turn it off when I'm done. I don't care about performance, since backups are always run as a batch job (typically over night).
Before I bought that Norco case, I was just using individual drives with a Thermaltake BlacX SATA-to-USB hard drive docking station. This is cheaper, just slightly less convenient. I did order 50 "zip lock"-style anti-static bags for $13. I ordered them from staticbags.com ("GRC Enterprises" was listed on my invoice). After I copied data to the drive and put it in an anti-static bag, I just added it to the stack of drives I had on my bookshelf. The Norco case definitely looks better! :)
All in all, I consider my system fairly robust. It's only semi-secure against my stupidity, and since its all housed in the apartment, does not safeguard against fire. But since the media rips are just copies of DVDs I actually own, my insurance policy becomes the ultimate backup.
RAID is used as redundancy against hardware failure, not as a backup solution. If one of your drives fails in a RAID 1, sweet, you've not lost your data. However, overwriting all your data with crap will leave then you with two drives of crap. Where's your data now?
TFA isn't asking about hardware failure in a way that RAID would be the correct answer.
Drobo.
Http://www.drobo.com.
I have 2 of them and one has saved my butt.
After losing 7 hard drives behind a cheap surge protector after a lightning strike, I now have serial APS surge protectors and a 4.5 TB Drobo.
Format it for 8 TB and you can swap drives in and out as you need to move up in storage capacity.
It's pretty brainless to use. You just plug it in and let it do its job. Get the fast SATA drives.
- Zav - Imagine a Beowulf cluster of insensitive clods...
Just get one of these.
My solution to this is to store my stuff on bare sata-2 drives (1 - 1.5TB @ $0.10USD / GB). I have a couple of eSata enclosures which offer tool-less installation - just a thumb-latch, and slide the drive in/out (about $50USD). So, I keep the bare drives organized on a shelf, and can plug one in as desired in about 30 seconds. Cheaper than tape, and just about as cheap as single-layer DVD-R discs, plus each 1TB drive will hold about 250 SL or 125 DL DVD's worth of data. Since the cost / GB is about the same for the newer 1.5TB discs as for 1TB discs of the same speed, I am getting the bigger drives these days. Each drive is about the size of a small paperback book.
If you want to back up one of these, with the eSata connection to the computer you can back up a TB from disc to disc in about 4 hours. That's a collection of a couple hundred feature-length movies.
Sometimes, real fast is almost as good as real-time.
http://freenas.org/
The biggest concern I'd have with single disks is that disk fail. Regularly.
I can see the point of wanting to store to disk - plenty of space, easy to use, and fast. But I'd really want some kind of redundancy. Have you thought about buying an external raid array? Possibly the easiest to use is the Drobo - just fill it with as many disks as you want, and it'll ensure your data is protected:
http://www.drobo.com/
They're more expensive than just buying disks (£300 empty), but that's well worth it if you'd like your data to still be accessible when you come back to use it.
Steel ammo cans can be purchased at any surplus store and many outdoor/hunting stores. They will protect from lightning as well as electromagnetic pulse. They come with a rubber gasket making them waterproof, but they are not fireproof - if your house burns down around the ammo can, the heat will destroy your drives.
So, if you are really paranoid, get a fireproof safe big enough to store the ammo can...
And spin up every single drive through a boot cycle. Not even decent offline storage.
Also, you would have to unplug the entire rig when you're not using it to get even a comparable level of hardware integrity. You would still be causing n times as much wear on your drives, where n = (number of drives) / (average number of drives you want to use at once.)
Also be using probably 2n+k times as much power, since if you buy a cheap refurbished box off the 'net, it probably has some very large constant k power usage next to which the hard drive dock is effectively zero.
If you'd just like to store your data off the PC, and you need "unlimited" storage, get a sata hot-swap mobile rack, a bunch of drives and presto!
Specifically, this is what I use.
Get one of these - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817994057 and install it. Its' hot swap, and tray-less, so it treats the sata drives like cartridges. It's about $25.
Find out if your motherboard supports sata hot swap - if not, you'll need one of sate card that can do hotplug, try this - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816132003. It works and it's about $25 as well.
Then determine your storage needs- 1TB drives can be had for as low as $75, but that's for relatively cheap drives. The better ones are about $100. 1.5TB drives are available for $130. The 2 TB still command a premium price at $280.
I'd recommend the 1.5's.
Buy a few of them, just like you would buy tape cartridges. Geek tip- if you buy several(4-5) drives at once from Newegg, they ship them in a styrofoam shipping thing, that has slots for 3.5" drives and works wonderfully as shelf container. You keep the anti-static bags the drives are shipped in, and put them on the drives before stowing them in the styrofoam form.
There, you now have the equivalent of a tape drive and cartridges, for all of $50 for the "drive" and cartridges at the price point you want. Unlike cheap tape, you get sata speeds, no vendor lock-in, and your data on a medium that is universal.
All that being said, you have do your backups as if the drives were tape cartridges- that implies a cartridge (drive) rotation system, data stored redundantly on multiple cartridges, regular backups and verification, etc. It won't do you much good if you don't follow the proper backup steps. Here's a guide to doing it properly- http://www.structuredsolutions.net/whitepapers/Tape%20Backup%20Procedure.htm
It is a nice piece of kit, however. It's up to you to use it properly.
The Internet has no garbage collection
Store them in plastic boxes in sets. You don't want just RAID1, 5 or 6. You need filesystem which will actually correct errors as they appear. Use ZFS or btrfs.
:wq
aXXo ?? Is that you ?
I'd be concerned about having backups on just bare internal drives rattling around in a storage box.
Apart from the environmental (static/moisture etc) issues, I've found out the hard way how fragile SATA connectors really are. In 2 years of owning a system with SATA I've accidentally broke 2 connectors on drives. In decades of messing with PC's before that I never once broke an IDE connector.
Consequently I have a theory that drive manufacturers make SATA connectors so feeble on purpose just to sell more drives. I now use these things:
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/search.asp?keywords=MRK-200ST-BK
The only annoying thing about these is the need to keep a key around to swap the drives in and out as they get mechanically locked in the bay. If you dont like that maybe you can 'modify' it (like I did) or find similar product that doesnt use a key.
This is what I decided to use for backup and offline storage:
http://freeagent.seagate.com/en-us/hard-drive/portable-hard-drive/Free-Agent.html
They are a convenient size, they come in colors, and all you need to plug one in is a USB cable. I haven't bought the dock yet, but I'm planning to buy a couple.
I love using a 500 GB FreeAgent drive with my netbook... it hardly adds any weight to my carrying bag, and then I have all this storage. And yes, it's just USB bus-powered, and my Acer Aspire One has no trouble powering it. (You don't need one of those two-headed USB cables, to draw power from two USB ports, either. Just one USB cable.)
These aren't too expensive, but they aren't as cheap as just using internal drives with some sort of dock. The ultimate in density/price will always be boring internal drives... but these aren't bad. Around $110 on Newegg for the 500 GB one; compare to $90 for a 3.5" 7200 RPM internal SATA hard drive on Newegg. If you don't need the speed of the internal drive, the convenience of the external may be worth it.
steveha
lf(1): it's like ls(1) but sorts filenames by extension, tersely
Some people already mentioned Raid - please remember that raid is primarily for high availability and it is not a reliable solution to backup. A raid will not save you from power supply blowing and taking out mobo+hard_drives, it will not help you when your raid-5 suffers a second failure while rebuilding with a fresh drive or hot-standby, nor will it help you when your house is involved in a destructive act of "mother nature".
As a side note, I would stay away from volume managers as well - just follow the KISS (keep it simple stupid) principle.
Here is my setup at home - not high availability, but cheap and reliable:
A Linux/FreeBSD file server setup with individual mountpoints, no raid, no volume manager. You get all the capacity purchased, a single modern SATA drive can basically fill a 1Gbit link (so speed is not limiting) and if one drive fails, you only loose that mountpoint (as opposed to one huge linear/append volume being affected).
A Linux/FreeBSD backup server (identical drives to the first machine - mine is a low end PII/400 with 384MB ram). Same simple mountpoints and a nightly cron job doing incremental rsync with multiple directories full of hard-links to non-changed files (lookup dirvish - http://www.dirvish.org/, I'm actually using my own rsync wrapper based on the same idea).
Structure your storage on the file server so that you have archive and newstuff directories. Anything that you create/generate goes into newstuff, once you have enough to fill a DVD_or_blueray, burn it, deposit it into your security box at the bank and move to 'archive' (never touch anything in archive - make it RO).
You now have a robust, cheap and simple file server, a backup server with 30-90 days of incremental backups in case you need to restore files, and a stack of optical media in the bank. In case of a disaster, just copy the optical media into replacement server's archive directory. Just remember to start a fresh optical media dump every ~5 years - they don't last much longer than that.
I have a 1.75TB file server, a 1.75TB backup server, a security box full of DVD+Rs and the "system" is hands-off (other than burning a few DVDs every 1-2 months).
Good Luck!
M.
ps. make sure to put your machines on UPS and use XFS for best overall performance with large filesystems with tons of hard-links where rsync is stat-ing everything each night...
Remember to update your method of storage after a couple years. Even if the media lasts a decade doesn't mean you will have a machine that reads it.
Keep in mind: by the time you need any backups for the purposes of convenience, new technologies may have come around which will be far easier or far faster than the encoding process you went through previously.
-- 'The' Lord and Master Bitman On High, Master Of All
How about you use the DVD's you ripped them from as backup? Of course, I'm assuming this is the source you're ripping them from and not, say, illegal torrents or DVR recordings. I know that DVD's don't last forever, but do you really care if you still have your copy of Beverly Hills Chiuaua 20 years from now? This doesn't seem like the most important of data to back up. Oh I lost movie X, oh well so what or if I care enough I'll just buy another copy is probably a lot cheaper than buying an enormous collection or hard drives.
Maybe I'm in the minority here, but I have very, very little personal data I care enough about to backup. Mostly stuff that's irreplaceable, family photos, personal source code, etc.
If you ask nicely they'll be able to give you large cardboard boxes with foam dividers inside intended for transporting large quantities of uncased drives.
I've got one I use for storing "spare" drives; it holds two rows of 10.
I have a similar setup. 1500+ movies, 2600+ TV shows stored on disk, and streamed via iTunes to my AppleTV. All of these were ripped by myself from DVD, over the period of about 8 years. Needless to say, this represents a lot of my time so I'm keen to not see all that work lost in a disk failure or fire.
My storage solution was to use two Drobo units, each with (4) 1TB drives, giving me a total of 5.4GB of usable online storage. These are connected via FW800 to my workstation, which runs iTunes and shares out my media to the network.
For data protection, I don't backup. I ARCHIVE. Using a Thermaltake BlacX docking station and my collection of old, cheap SATA drives (250-500GB), I have a simple procedure for data protection: when I write a new movie or season of shows to the online storage, I also write it to one of my archive disks. The archive disks are then stored in a fire-proof, water-proof document safe, itself stored inside a larger theft-resistant home safe.
This gives me disk-level fault-tolerance provided by the Drobos, as well as restore capability in the event of a catastrophic event, at what I consider to be a reasonable price-point.
What kind of hard drive configuration Drobo uses?
My guess is MAID (Massive array of idle disks), but I don't know for sure.
Has anyone seen any tutorials on how to setup a MAID or Drobo-like hard drive array under Linux?
Drobo is very nice, but as a NAS solution it's very pricey.
AutoGK default settings work fine over here (~70 rips so far)...
Try this. http://www.hudzee.com/ We make a plastic hard drive case designed specifically for your needs. Features: Professional Labeling System for keeping organized. Can be stored on a shelf vertically or stacked horizontally. Specialized anti-static foam padding and liner to protect the hard drive components. Textured surface for easy handling. Secure latch. I hope this is what you are looking for! ~hudzee
I have been using encrypted Backblaze $5/mo backup for my home system for a few months now. I think in the end it will save me way more money on the bottom line then a dedicated system that will periodically need updated and maintained. It is uses 2048-bit RSA public/private key system that makes me feel warm and fuzzy. For the first time I feel pretty good about my backup of all my family photos and movies. http://www.backblaze.com/
I'm thinking of getting a WD ShareSpace, it's a four bay enclosure that has USB and network ports, RAID, comes populated with 2 to 8 TB of space.
Then I'd replace the drives individually as I run out of space an larger ones come along.
Right now I'm using three WD (I'm loyal to the brand even though I have no data to support that it's any better than any of the others) My Books connected to my second computer which I use as a download and content sever.
The reason I want the ShareSpace is because sometimes I'd like to have access to the data while needing to reboot the server and the My Books each require their own power cable.
Though if you wanted just to fill one up and put it in storage they would probably be a good solution.
Old System, 12 drives: http://s35.photobucket.com/albums/d162/mondmustaphamond/Floyd/?action=view¤t=Floyd_noLight2.jpg Upgraded system, 7 drives: http://s35.photobucket.com/albums/d162/mondmustaphamond/Floyd/?action=view¤t=Floyd_Reincarnated_w_description2_c.jpg
For backup, I use three HD's and rotate them:
1-Caddy (unposered) - will be used on next backup, then moved off-site.
2-Closet - will be moved to caddy after next backup
3-OFFSITE (locked in my desk at work) - this is the most recent back up, and will be moved to closet after next backup.
After a backup, the rotation looks like this:
1 goes to 3
2 goes to 1
3 goes to 2
Shouldn't I be getting paid to give this advice?
I feel like saying "hi, My name is john Thank you for contacting Info Avenue tech services. Whats your problem sir?
WeibeTech makes cases designed specifically for offline storage of internal drives:
http://www.wiebetech.com/products/cases.php
A fireproof/waterproof safe is good for that and a number of other items as well.
The home fire safe is UL rated for paper documents and currency. Internal temperatures rising to around 400 degrees F.
The media-rated safe, 125. Expect to spend $200 for a small 30 pound box. Sentry Fire-Safe Media Chest
Print out each frame on papyrus and fashion flip books then store in clay jars berried in the desert. Inscribe the sound tracks on gold records attach to deep space probes and shot out of the solar system. Line drawings on naked humans optional
found some reclose-able anti-static bag http://www.uline.com/BL_57/No-Print-Static-Shielding-Bags-Reclosable
I recently had the exact same question. After an exhaustive search, I found these guys who specialize in ESD control packaging:
http://www.protektivepak.com/
I ordered their 37305 In-Plant Handler (which accommodates up to forty 3.5" hard drives and PCI cards beautifully) from these guys (the only ones I could find who would ship outside the continental U.S.):
http://oemmaterials.com/
I swap hard drives / PCI cards regularly and am very happy with this solution.
I have been looking for a while as I have 6x 160GB IDE drives here from my old file server, after I realised that spending £75 on a 1TB drive would save me and be a whole lot quieter and easier than a noisy file server running 24/7 eating ~180W. I think I calculated about 6 months or so to break even in costs.
Anyway, I was interested in the idea of reusing the drives in usb enclosures for back up, but basically once I factor in the cost of 6x enclosures, I'm better off buying a single new drive which are even cheaper now than they were back then (end of last year).
I'm thinking £5 or less per enclosure would be suitable, I think the best I could find was somewhere between £10 and £15 (x 6 = £60-£90!) I can get a 1.5TB drive for that these days.
If I were to do that I'd probably then have to move my 2x 500GB sata drives outs, and then I'd be faced with the same situation again. For the cost of £40-£50 can get a brand new 500GB external drive...
I have a CentOS 5 Server running Web, email, and video server for my house. For backups I bought a USB external enclose that holds 4 drives. It automatically spins them down after (IIRC) about 20 minutes of non-use. Backups run on cron, I check it once every six months.
I keep backup drives in the antistatic bags with desiccant. in an old 8-track case which fits nicely in a portable firebox.
Proudly Butchering code for 20 years
I use one of these:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811998021 in a crapbox (and bought a few extra trays). The nice feature this one has is a power switch; I simply leave it off most of the time, but when I want to do a backup I turn it on (BEFORE powering on). This way I don't have to worry about removing the drive all the time (though I should get better about that, and I will once I get a media safe).
I Am My Own Worst Enemy
If you plan on getting more than one, try to get all the same model. It is really convenient to not have to hunt for a specific power cord (or even a specific USB cord) if they all use the same cables.
I Am My Own Worst Enemy
I've been dealing with this for clients for several years now - most of whom deal with AV and photography. Stuff that absolutely must remain intact at any cost.
For a while we used RAID - and RAID 1 and similar redundant options do work well enough. And we debated Blu-Ray. But the final solution seems to be solid state drives. They look to be stable enough once written to actually qualify as suitable for archival purposes. This comes as all hard drives seem to be suffering from poor quality lately. I just know that some of the companies are flat out lying to us in their white sheets based upon how many data failures I have witnessed in the last couple of years.
They aren't exactly inexpensive, but they do work better for this than a hard drive.
Internal or external, there lies the question, internal has speed advantages, but space disadvantages, and storing too. I prefer using externals, double up (bkups for each drive )
so 1 500gb, = 2 in reality, 1 for stuff, and one for the bckup of that drive.
Each time you need to add, another 500gb, then keep adding, the problem is no one sees the importance of keeping the drives small enough, as 2tb drives come out, people will rush to replace their 4 500gb with 1 2tb....wrong! Keeping the files separate means less possibility of corruption.
If 1 2tb drive conks out, its a bugger to get back a full 2tb of data, where as 500gb although large, is a little easier. I prefer this way anyways....plus externals can be easily shared , where as
internals are tougher to lug around, if no one has proper set up to connect to.
RAID 6, RAID cards have really gone down in rpice and you just throw 5 1TB drives together and not worry...
now if you want it to be so backed up that if your house catches in fire your data will be fine, get a couple of 1TB hard drives, put them in $10 external cases, and throw them in a storage locker.
Also as an added bonus if the world ever comes to an end and the whole internet goes down in smolderines you can just take your box of hard drives to the fallout shelter along with a netbook and you will be the guy who keeps our culture alive.
People will discover these lost drives and view world changing films such as Beverly hills chihuahua, wolverine orgins, jumper, and twilight.
You know what ....just throw the drives in acid, we don't want historians looking at those xD
I have several hard drives in a SansDigital external USB chassis. It's not anywhere near as cheap as stacking up the drives in an anti-static bag.
Also it's not fast enough to stream ALL my DVDs. I think some of them are really high bit rate (two 30 minute episodes on one DVD). Then again, it could be the crazy way I use RAID and LVM: http://www.purplefrog.com/~thoth/philosophy/raid.html
store them in their original packing material (anti-static bag/plastic box with a silica pad in it) and pop 'em in whenever you need to. No need for all kinds of different USB caddies, power supplies and whathaveyou anymore.
The best weapon of a dictatorship is secrecy, but the best weapon of a democracy should be the weapon of openness.
I use these:
http://www.hudzee.com/
A bit pricey, but they work well.
I my experience new drives have failed within 1 -2 weeks. I would suggest to get a new disk and use it for couple of weeks (atleast) and then use it for backup.
just my 2 cents.
This is a post from "Image Mechanics," a business that apparently manages tons of image files, on their blog:
http://www.deathtofilm.com/2006/11/12/image-mechanics-off-line-archiving-system/
Long story short, they write to an external removable hard drive and then store the raw drives in blocks of anti-static foam cut to hold the drives that then fits into a filing cabinet.
-- I browse at +5 with stripped sigs
When it comes to computer hardware, it is all a matter of rolling the dice. Some hardware will fail under the most ideal conditions, while other hardware will survive years upon years of gross negligence under unbearably hot and humid conditions. You, as the user, only have so much say in the matter. Srsly though, if you need an inexpensive interim solution, just get yourself some hard drive enclosures.
Buy one of these:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817121172
Buy one of these for each of your drives:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817121175
Store the drives in a secure place between backups.
To answer your question anti static bags in a safe are FINE but if you want to know the RIGHT way to backup, for free mind you, read my post. :)
In your case I would expect these to be your main concern.
* Data Integrity
* Automatic Backups
* Cheap
* Easy to setup backup
* Easy to restore
But the question is.. If linux could provide all these things in your backup solution would you consider it?
Yes, BackupPC is FREE backup software for linux and is by far hands down the best way and easiest way to back up all your computers on your network automatically. (please knowledgable people comment and back me up)
What you need is any running computer (not too old you want it to have SATA capability on the board at least). Throw in all your drives, Install Linux (Ubuntu is the one everyone is talking about), install backuppc (a few button clicks in the OS) Then configure BackupPC to check your computers at night for changes and you are done! Backups are done automatically and you can just go to the website to view/access your files.
** BackupPC running on a linux machine is like sex and candy. The ultimate set it and forget it solution. **
I'll be honest, SETUP is the only problem with backup BackupPC. However, It is a small price to pay though for having a free, enterprise class solution running in your home that you NEVER have to worry about. It would probably take me 30 minutes once linux was up and running to get backuppc installed and starting its first backup. For you, being your first time, it would take longer. But it's worth it!
Once it's running though you don't have to worry about a thing! You can periodically check BackupPC's status by going to a web browser and typing in the address of the machine that you set up. You can retrieve a file in a matter of two clicks. Much easier than going to your closet or safe and plugging in drives.
** If a drive fails on one of your machines (usually they fail slowly giving you some notice it is going to die) after you replace the drive you can quickly get the files off of backuppc back onto your main pc. ** If a backuppc drive dies then you *DO* have a backup which is on your main computer. Set backuppc back up with a new drive and have it run a full backup again.
* Having your files in two places all the time will ensure no data loss.
Seriously though, a backup should be a set it and forget it type of deal. Not something where every time you get a new file have to think "oh I have to back that up..."
No, you want something automatic.
If you really need a backup solution and you know how to install linux and edit some files (this is actually quite a task on command line if you don't know vi or bash(but it's ok you can use graphical vim editor)) you would be interested to know about the FREE backup solution called BackupPC.
Wow, after reading this I realize I wrote this like an advertisement. lol People please comment and tell everyone that I am sincere in my presentation of backuppc. It really is one of the best... thanx
I recently went for a trayless hotswap solution, and it's worked out well. NVidia SATA hotswap doesn't seem supported in linux, but it works fine with a promise sata pci card. The trayless enclosure means there are no trays lying around or keys to get lost. I brewed up a tool to auto-mount on insert, and unmount after removal and big drives now work like floppies. The only downside is that the enclosure fans are low quality and start making noise after a couple weeks. I ripped the fans out and placed a slow quiet big fan behind the unit. Drives are cool enough and little fan noise. When unused, I stash the drives in a cupboard. Another idea would be to do a find of the removable drive to an online text file, so as to make finding stuff easier.
Stealing caviar out of the mouths of those poor executives!
Get a bag of crystalline kitty litter. Cut the top off the bag. Place in cupboard or box with your HDDs. Close cupboard or box. Problem solved.
If I have seen further it is by stealing the Intellectual Property of giants.
We have 20 of these from Hudzee, and we like them a lot. http://www.hudzee.com
Buy some .50 caliber ammo cans in good condition (about $5 ea + shipping) and some dessicant packs (also cheap).
The ammo cans are built like a tank and air/watertight. Glue some foam to the inside, put your drives in and toss in some silica gel.
Perhaps a Drobo could be a good solution for you?
I had the same problem and after I lost over 80 hours (my time to rip) of work I setup a Server the has 4 one terabyte (low power) drives in a RAID 5 setup. I use a hardware RAID controller (3Ware) since software RAID 5 is REALLY slow and you are usually moving several hundred megabytes per ripped file to the system. I setup the server to be low power and it uses around 65Watts when its idle, which is most of the time.
Personally, I just bought myself a bunch of (well, 6) removable SATA caddies. But I'm using them for offsite backups, so I have slightly different needs to you I guess.
This is the 'prior art' post for my switched drive idea. The main issues I have with all of the 'raid' and 8 bay systems I see is that a) the drives are always on, sucking power, b) while raid is certainly safer, it is much more expensive currently than it is worth. Ideally you want to keep you costs below $1 per movie for storage, which the 1.5TB drives approach assuming an average of 7GB per movie. The 8 bay drives seem to cost at minimum $500 which is a lot of overhead.
I would rather see a simple box with slots for say 24 drives. These drives would then be wired to a switched sata controller ala a KVM. By switched I mean that pressing a physical radio style button, that drive would become the active drive, would power up and mount automatically. Ideally the system would allow 2 drives to be powered at the same time for ease of transferring between drives. Also ideally it would be possible to switch from one drive to another by signal from the computer in addition to the physical buttons.
http://blog.slaingod.com
http://www.icydock.com/product/mb454spf.html Under linux, umount the drive before removal.
Get one of these
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16856167032
Get a couple 1.5 TB drives and a CF card to run the OS from.
Get an adaptor/rails to mount the second HD in the CD space and you're set.
The OS will put the two HD to sleep and the box by itself only uses a "couple" watts of power.
Small, fast, cheap ... no need to only pick two.
"Consistency is contrary to nature, contrary to life. The only completely consistent people are the dead." A. Huxley
Get any a standard bookshelf. Then use a strong adhesive to secure industrial strength magnets to the shelves.
Then, you can just set the harddrives on the magnets. They won't slide around and get scratched up, and will never accidentally fall out. You can even use the undersides of the shelves as well to double the capacity. Safe, secure, simple!
Stack'em. Get some array gear and just keep 'em near-term on-line. You could make your own unimatrix/tertiary adjunct (or, primary/secondary, etc...). Set up a few re-entertainment alcoves, and a vinculum, and you can gorge like a Borg on data... But, don't take a byte (or bite) out of Data's hide... (hidden cache of little nuggets and jewels of seedy information...) he might have some interesting tales he decided to crypt there....
Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
Since storing movies tends to be a write once activity, would using the various flash options be reliable?
A full season of a TV show or a few movies could fit on a single 4GB card, and the things are small enough to sort and stack just about anywhere. No need to worry about spinning them up once a year, either.
Does anyone know where to get cheap SD cards in bulk?
I'd say have a look at the ICY DOCK MB559US (Or really anything from ICY DOCK, it all seems to be pretty good stuff.) it's an external enclosure that has USB 2.0 and eSATA, and supports SATA II 3gb/s drives. It's barely bigger than the drive itself, costs between $50 and $75, and additional drive trays can be had for $20. (Not as cheap as I'd like.) It's worth noting that they have several different versions to cover a range of different connection types. eSATA, USB 2.0, Firewire 400, Firewire 800... And the trays will also fit in their multibay internal enclosures, just in case you later decide you want one of those big media server jobbers to feed your screens.
I will admit I have no experience with the devices, but I seriously considered getting one a while back. For now I'm sticking with mass internal storage.
Friend: "The NIC is misconfigured..." Me: "No prob, I'll just telnet in and fix it." *Silence*
Why would anyone store TV-shows? As if there is not enough new stuff coming out all the time. What happened to your VCR collection? You probably havent watched one of em and just tossed em years back. What happened to your DVD backups? i havent pulled one of mine out in the last, mhhm, 5 years. I have TBs on my server, and finally realized that I just delete everything older than 2 years because I wont be coming around to watching the old stuff anyway. Not far in the future u can save all ur itunes stuff, movies, vcr on a little pill and swallow it, and soon after that it will be in a cloud anyway and u can, hopefully, search and access it all.
Bury them underground. It's cool and it won't catch fire.
Only on /. can you find two threads side by side containing the following:
- a thread on data management where the data mainly consists of ripped videos and tv shows, and
- a thread on the legality of cable companies storing said tv shows for the later use by their customers and the MPAA getting on their case.
And anyway, with the internet being as fast as it is these days, why would you want to keep any movie/tv show data at home when you can just download it again?
I'd hazard a guess that downloading the data when you need it might actually be *more* convenient then any other data storage system (unless it is always on and connected to your machine)
If you plan on getting more than one, try to get all the same model. It is really convenient to not have to hunt for a specific power cord (or even a specific USB cord) if they all use the same cables.
Or go for the units that have built in PSUs and take a standard PC power cord.
Rosewill RX82-U (JBOD)
BYTECC ME-835SU-SL
Wolde you bothe eate your cake, and have your cake?
1) Don't leave them turned on, especially not in the original system. If the system gets hit by lightning/surge/etc you don't want it to take your backup with it.
2) Rotate your backups. Assuming you have more than one removable media, swap them out in a rotating fashion.. That gives you multiple restore points in case you have one of the backup media volumes go bad.
3) If you use an internal drive dock, get one that encloses the drive so it has basic physical protection from handling. Store them in the plastic (usually antistatic) bag they came in somewhere away from the main system.
4) Instead of using an internal dock with multiple internal drives that all need their own dock sled, consider an external USB/Firewire/eSATA drive instead. You can even get ethernet based drives too, so they can be used on your home network. You can buy an external drive enclosure for pretty cheap and use the same internal drives saving a bit of money, making it about the same cost as using an internal drive docking solution with the bonus that you can then access your backup from ANY system, not just the one that has the dock.
A slip of the foot you may soon recover, but a slip of the tongue you may never get over. -Benjamin Franklin