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Dogs As Intelligent As Average Two-Year-Old Children
Ponca City, We love you writes "The Telegraph reports that researchers using tests originally designed to demonstrate the development of language, pre-language and basic arithmetic in human children have found that dogs are capable of understanding up to 250 words and gestures, can count up to five and can perform simple mathematical calculations putting them on par with the average two-year-old child. While most dogs understand simple commands such as sit, fetch and stay, a border collie tested by Professor Coren showed a knowledge of 200 spoken words. 'Obviously we are not going to be able to sit down and have a conversation with a dog, but like a two-year-old, they show that they can understand words and gestures,' says Professor Stanley Coren, a leading expert on canine intelligence at the University of British Columbia in Vancouver. Dogs can tell that one plus one should equal two and not one or three,' says Coren, adding that dogs 'can also deliberately deceive, which is something that young children only start developing later in their life.' Coren believes centuries of selective breeding and living alongside humans has helped to hone the intelligence of dogs. 'They may not be Einsteins, but are sure closer to humans than we thought.'"
Be interesting to see what a Wolf would be like as they tend to have a larger brain to body mass ratio.
We already have bomb and drug-sniffing dogs, does this additional knowledge mean that we will end up with dogs in other support roles? I'm also interested as to how one becomes a professor of canine intelligence, does this guy need to test wolves too?
And a 2 year old is pretty damn smart!!
...my dog is a lot like Einstein, in that her hair goes everywhere and she refuses to accept quantum mechanics.
Just because you sold your soul to the devil that needn't make you a teetotaler. --The Devil and Daniel Webster
In a shock move by the GOP, they have announced that dog's deserve the right to vote!
IranAir Flight 655 never forget!
I've suspected this for a while, which is why I get especially worked up over people who get their jollies tormenting and abusing animals.
It's basically like abusing a child, and is just as sick.
'They may not be Einsteins, but are sure closer to humans than we thought.'
I don't think so. You're comparing a fully-mature animal to one in its infancy. We've long known that animals can learn behaviors that mimick that of humans -- in some cases, their physiological parts are superior to humans (the eyes of a hawk, for example). But to say they're "closer to humans than we thought" -- that's a quotable designed to be eaten up by the popular press because a lot of people are dog lovers and will jump at the chance to say "Aw, see, old charlie here is almost human smart!"
I'm sorry to say that, no, Charlie is still a dog. A creature that has spent several thousand years being domesticated by humans -- I'd damn well expect it to be able to emulate certain kinds of human behavior and show types of intelligence other animals do not, that's exactly what domestication is supposed to do. But a dog does not have near-human intelligence. It doesn't even have remotely human intelligence -- it has simply learned behaviors that we can understand and manipulate to a far greater degree than other animals.
#fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
One test was that the subject was offered a treat inside a cage -- a banana pellet for the ape, a Gummy Bear candy for the human child -- an a kind of toothed rake to retreive the treat.
In each case, the rake was handed to the subject tooth-side down, and the teeth were to widely spaced to make and headway retrieving the treat. In each case the subject, a chimp and a 2-year-old human, raked away to no effect.
Then the experimenter turned the rake over and demonstrated how the treat could easily be retrieved using the flat end of the rake. Then the rake was returned to the subject with the tooth-side-down position of the rake.
The ape went back to raking away to no effect. With respect to the human 2-year-old, however, not only did the 2-year-old achieve 1-trial learning that the flat side of the rake was the effective way to get the Gummy Bear candy, when the 2-year-old was shown this technique, the 2-year-old laughed out loud, as if to say, "Oh, that's cheating, but if cheating is allowed, I am certainly going to do it."
What I figure was the role of the laughter and the sense that the rake experiment was a joke is this: humor is connected with this type of reasoning and this type of learning. A lot of learning is a matter of figuring out the exception to the rule, what has to be un-learned in order to effect an outcome. So not only did the 2-year-old learn in one trial, the 2-year-old developed a mental model of how the rake was supposed to operate and then made a conceptual correction to that model, and thought the whole thing to be funny.
I don't know the equivalent experiment with a dog as dogs lack the hand dexterity of humans and apes, but the minute I see a dog respond with 1-trial learning to a related situation, only then will I believe any claim as to a dog have the intelligence of a 2-year-old human.
...my dog is a lot like Einstein, in that her hair goes everywhere and she refuses to accept quantum mechanics.
There's no reason we can't have a Schrödinger's dog too. Try it. Whether the dog survives or not, it'll have a far greater appreciation of quantum mechanics. Note: Do not put Schrödinger dog with Schrödinger cat. Experimental results may be random.
#fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
does this additional knowledge mean that we will end up with dogs in other support roles?
How about a "Thinking Brain" dog for some of the terminally stupid people I have to deal with? The blind and deaf already use dogs, why not stupid people? Are you a stupid person who can't make a decision in the fast food restaurant? Dog orders you a cheeseburger. Are you so stupid that you can't decide if you should turn left or right at the stoplight? Dog tells you to turn left. Are you a dumb pedestrian who stops in the middle of the intersection to answer their cell phone? Dog drags you to the curb.
This would be GREAT!
John
They have always seemed pretty smart to me. Or is the stuff that they do not deemed "intelligent?"
Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
If you are child-less, and thus have little patience for the little monsters, you'd say that dogs *can* be as stupid and annoying as those screaming spoiled rotten two year old brats at McDonalds. Please, parents, stick them in that soundproof screaming chamber area with the playground equipment!
But there is some breakthrough work being done on training 2-year-olds to sniff for bombs and drugs.
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
No one needs academic elitists from Canada telling them their own sons and daughters are no smarter than an average dog. My husband Todd showed me this article while we were playing with Trig, and I sat down and I thought to myself, boy, what's the world coming to, that if you could equate a puppy's intelligence with that of an unborn child, you could give the puppy a post-birth abortion?
And I'm telling you, when you put forth Americans in front of these scientists on Obama's health care panel, and they put your baby and an Ivy League-educate golden retriever on the scale, who do you trust they'll declare the victor? This is dystopian, this is an outrage, this is what we must fight, America!
--Sarah Palin
http://www.livescience.com/animals/090808-smart-dogs.html
As a owner of two beagles I disagree that beagles are "unintelligent", which makes me question the validity of these findings. I dont even see a mention of how many dogs of each breed they used, you can't just grab one dog and generalize the breed based on it. One of the beagles I own is very human-like in some aspects. For example, I left some chicken nuggets out on a table in the McDonalds box half open. She tried to sneak out a SINGLE nugget and eat it, hoping that I wouldn't be able to notice the number discrepancy of the amount left over (there were six). In fact, she often tries to sneak things when she checks that you aren't looking. However, she always knows when my Fiance is gone for the weekend by the suitcase being packed with clothes. With no direct treat/reward there is no logical explanation except that the dog put 2 + 2 together.
Likewise, my other beagle know's the following tricks: Sit, Stay, Come, Lay-down, Roll-over, Stand-up, jump (touches his nose to my hand by jump, like a dolphin), shake, high five, *bang!* (play dead), gentle, and kennel.
What is different though is that beagle's are stubborn and their logic tends to be short fused or easily over-ridden by sense of smell and their garbage gut that is always hungry. As Cesar Millan puts it, dogs have a state of mind, and in the case of the beagle it is easy for it to *snap*. It doesn't mean they are unintelligent when in the proper state of mind though, but in certain states of mind they are very single-minded.
In contrast, I've grown up with three generations of scottish terriors and all three have exhibited behavior that shows them as less intelligent than beagles in pretty much every respect.
The average two year old understands 250 words? My two year old and all her same age friends know far far more than that. I also don't think that you get cleverer as you get older. You just learn more.
To be fair, not many humans are Einsteins either.
The shareholder is always right.
I have seen some nasty, aggressive dogs. They tend to have nasty, aggressive owners. I have seen some nasty, aggressive children. They tend to have nasty, aggressive parents.
I have also seen well-behaved children and dogs. Guess what their parents are like?
Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
We've known for years - or should have known - that at least some breeds of dog are pretty smart.
With recent discoveries about the importance of RNA and lateral genetic transfers, we may yet discover that dogs are our closest relatives.
Of course, other animals may also be smarter than we give them credit for, but these neotenous wolves have certain qualities in common with us that no other animals have, including an understanding of our body language - and, according to some studies, dogs may even have an ability to read our minds to some degree (look at the studies where the owner leaves home and then, though they are 30 miles away, the moment they turn around to come home their dog goes to the door to wait for them - also consider the use of dogs and cats to warn epileptics of seizures).
This makes me wonder how aborting a human life far less developed than a toddler can still draw so much debate, while relatively little concern is shown for the thousands of lost lives of unwanted pets euthanized every year in animal shelters.
So a dog goes into the telegraph office and submits his message for transmission: "Woof woof woof woof woof woof woof woof woof."
The telegraph operator says, "We normally charge by the word, but if you like, I'll give you the tenth 'woof' for free."
To this, the dog responded, "But that, my good chap, would make no sense at all!"
The CB App. What's your 20?
I wonder how far beyond the 250 words body language takes their vocabulary? Or maybe it's included?
I taught my dogs most of the basics using hand signals (Partly because they seem to pick up on this much better, it's how they communicate to each other, and partly to spare my friends and others at the dog park from having to hear me say "SIT" 37 times in a row..)
They also seem to be able to identify object not in front of them, using words ("Go find your BALL", "Go find a STICK" can be taught..)
Mod parent up! As a parent and a dog-owner, I find these statements to be absolutely on point!
The CB App. What's your 20?
If you are child-less, and thus have little patience for the little monsters, you'd say that dogs *can* be as stupid and annoying as those screaming spoiled rotten two year old brats at McDonalds.
Small children, screaming and running around restaurants and other public establishments are akin to dogs let loose.
Also, such behavior indicates that their parents consider their offspring to be what dogs are to most people - pets.
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
The statement "as intelligent as a 2 year old child" implies the ability to perform on par with a 2 year old with average mental abilities, or another child of different age with greater or lesser abilities, on an appropriate test of "intelligence" such the Wechsler Intelligence Scale for Children (Revised).
Since those expected responses which are not verbal are written, obviously they'll score 0.
Since cognitive science seems to get further from a definition of intelligence the harder it tries to pin it down, even using the word is a problem. I quit believing in the concept when I saw a retarded child perform successfully (though slower, and with more effort)in a class of gifted children mostly because of the attention offered in the situation.
"Can perform successfully tests of some functions and display some cognitive abilities which when given to humans can be accomplished by more than half of 2 year old children" might be acceptable.
Besides, I've seen some dogs that were too stupid to live. And I've run and howled with some that I've trusted alone with my baby children. Who cares how smart a person they'd make? What matters is how smart a dog they are, and the smartest rarely need things like arithmetic.
For that matter, how smart is a 2 year old human on a dog scale of "intelligence"? After all, that's 21 in dog years. It's not 7 to 1, it's 10.5 to 1 for the first two, then 4 to 1 after.
"I may be synthetic, but I'm not stupid." -- Bishop 341-B
Two-year-olds are dumb. They can't even drive!
Then again, africans can carry a coconut at least twice as far as their european counterparts, or so I'm told...
nobody knows you're a dog. And all you have to know is 200 words.
Am I not destroying my enemies when I make friends of them? --Abraham Lincoln
Professor Stanley Coren was my intro to psychology prof! Great guy, always started his lecture with information about a specific dog breed.
quote dogs 'can also deliberately deceive, which is something that young children only start developing later in their life.'
Definition of deceive (Merriam-Webster) "to give a false impression"
I call ABSOLUTE bullshit on this one. I can GUARANTEE you that my children (and those of friends of mine that I have observed) have all shown this behaviour much earlier than two. I can recall that my oldest showed this behaviour at around 6 months. Let me give you an example,
- you set up a rug/mat for your child to play on. You put toys on the rug/mat
- your child tries to crawl off the mat - you put them back on. They now know the rule (but may not understand the driver)
- they will happily stay on the mat until you turn around - and then they will try to crawl off the mat
- when you turn around again, they stop and look up at you as if to say "I wasn't doing that"
I can name you many, many equivalences to this - throwing peas on the floor, wiping hands on pants, etc. I've even gone as far to have filmed them to re-inforce the behaviour differences between when I look and when I don't :)
Whist off-topic, I have a few other observations about behaviour of my eldest boy,
1. At around three months, he would "scan" his toys with his hands. Toys that had tags were "rejected". "rejected" means that he would purse his lips and snarl and throw the toy away. To this day, he is very particular about many things
2. At around 15 months old, I could say to him "can you please get your breakfast". He would fetch his bowl, milk, cereal and spoon without any further support
For the record, my youngest boy has shown no such aptitude. However, he taught himself to read upper case and lower case letters (using a kids computer) and learnt the alphabet song and to count to 20 well before he turned two.
AC
Hi there. My name is Doug. My master made me this collar so I may talk. SQUIRREL! ... Hi There.
Sort of like the Republicans over the last decade, right? I mean, with all of those WMDs in Iraq and tax breaks for companies outsourcing middle class IT and accounting jobs, the middle class did oh so well!
I have also seen well-behaved children and dogs. Guess what their parents are like?
Someone only a submissive would want to date?
Rabidly involved, overbearing, constantly disciplining, and incapable of having fun unless it meets their selfish needs?
Perhaps they "understand" up to 200 words, but do they understand them in the same way a 2-year-old human learns language? It is possible they have just been conditioned to associate certain words with behaviors - if a human says "sit" and the dog sits because it knows that will get it a treat, that isn't the same as the dog understanding the concept of "sit." (See Operant Conditioning.) This is an ongoing debate among those who study animal intelligence.
For my money, the most interesting animal intelligence case study was Alex the African Grey Parrot, whose species is believed by many to be the smartest non-human animal. His scientist keeper did a number of studies to demonstrate that Alex at least had some understanding of the concepts he was learning. Fascinating stuff.
Let me know when I can send Susie grocery shopping.
Then I'll be impressed.
Any dog owner already knew that - what a waste of research money!
The simplest possible explanation: Your dog is the antichrist.
Does our intelligence average a 2 months old puppy, considering most of us cannot diffenciate between 25 different barks ?
I've been reading Slashdot for years. We are everywhere. What do you think your dog is doing while you're not at home?
the reason is that he is defining breed intelligence as those animals that respond to man quickly and repeatidly. For example, my Siberian Husky is one of the fastest learners that I have seen amongst dogs. She picks up right away what I want. The problem is that if I try to get her to repeat it, esp. without a treat, she will not do it. Huskies are well known for their stubborness, so she would rate in the middle of the pack. OTH, another dog is a lab/border collie mix who takes longer to learn something, BUT will then want to repeat it easily. Yet, she would rate higher in this guys scoring.
Based on how this guy applies intelligence, the wolf is likely to score low, even though they are extremely intelligent from what I have seen. The wolves that I have seen others raising (we have a lot here in Colorado) are like huskies; fast learners and stubborn; Extreme stubborn if you are not alpha (which is a real mistake to be in any house with a wolf).
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
... bitches?
Coren believes centuries of selective breeding and living alongside humans has helped to hone the intelligence of dogs.
Yet it is also well established that both cats and dogs have smaller brains relative to body size than their wild counterparts. This being a result of selective breeding which may select for more juvenille traits. I'm quite sure a wild big cat or wolf raised carefully in captivity would do just as well as their domesticated cousins, and there is reason to believe they may do better.
After logging in slashdot still does not take you back to the page you were on. It's been that way for 20 years.
and smarter than the average human adult ..
most notably sarah palin .. with an IQ of 6 .. and it requires 7 to bark ..
and far more honest than any politician ..
Surprisingly (or not), that's identical to the thinking of Cesar Milan and is demonstrated in each episode of the Dog Whisperer.
Episode 1:
Episode 2:
Episode 3:
The difference, of course, is that while dogs may have the intelligence or relative maturity of a 2yo, they stay that way. Which is kind of why we enjoy them so much. :-)
incapable of having fun unless it meets their selfish needs?
Isn't that true for most of humanity?
Any sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice - Grey's Law
Oh come on. You can't even send a man grocery shopping.
Considering the Pranknet story, I'm going to have to say that dogs are smarter than a lot of TWENTY-two-year-olds.
--- Asking inconvenient questions for over 30 years...
Dogs might understand about as many words and gestures as the average two year old, but I don't believe they're as intelligent. At least not according to our definition of intelligence. My two year old (27 months) asked me last night, "Why are balls round?". Then followed up with "is the moon a ball?". You can teach a two year old to communicate, but they come up with those questions on their own. Would a dog ask questions like that if it could communicate with us? I doubt it, but maybe I'm wrong.
"More Devilish"... & when I asked my Pop what he meant by that? He told me that as a boy near the Russian forests (@ the edge of Poland's South East section of that nation), he had found + taken in a Wolf Pup.
He said it was FINE, just like a good puppy, until it got older, & started "disobeying" & otherwise "acting up" (& when the then no longer Wolf Puppy saw there were other wolves out there? It took off on them, never to return (well, My Pop told me that ONCE he saw a wolf staring at the family home from the woods, years later... but he was NOT sure if it was said former pup of his, or not, but he'd like to think it was)).
He also meant, when I asked him what he meant by "devilish", that they are FAR more "crafty" (probably what was meant by the article saying "dogs can practice intentional deceits", which of course, they do!)
E.G.-> I had a GREAT Labrador, as a boy, & when my family played badminton (which we did often in summers), the dog would wait for us to drop the "birdie" & when we did, lol, she would steal it... only dropping it/giving it back, when we got out her FAVORITE TREAT - Chocolate! I always thought that was rather clever of her in fact, & that it was funny too. I was the one that figured out her "end game" because the 1st time it happened, she wanted us to chase her around instead (she wanted to play too it seemed) but catching her? Tough... too tough. Instead, I ran inside that first time, got that "almighty chocolate", & that? That "did the trick", lol!
I.E.-> She could NOT hold onto the badminton birdie, AND TAKE THE CHOCOLATE, @ the same time (impossible, as dogs only have 1 mouth), though she surely DID try to snag the birdie again, after QUICKLY gulping down the chocolate, & everytime, lol!
That dog? She was "NUTS" about Chocolate (cuckoo for coco puffs had nothing on her, lol)... I would literally have to HIDE to open a candybar in the house, & even then?
Well - When I was around 7-8 or so iirc, for example, I went into a closet, @ the FAR END OF THE HOUSE (was a HUGE house we lived in, built in 1865, a brick mansion basically) & I made sure, first, that she was @ the other end... So, I went into the closet & hid, opening the chocolate bar as quietly as possible...
Within SECONDS, either those amazing canine ears or noses got the better of my "plan", lol... Then, I heard her claws on the hardwood floors "tap, tap, tap", but not running, though making a good pace, right over to where I was, & she scratched on the door lol, basically pretty much saying "Yea, I just KNOW you're in there, with that chocolate - GIMME SOME!!!"
Which as usual?
I always gave her some: She was cool, & was one of my best friends in a big way, as a boy (especially since we lived in the country then, she was a great hunter & I did a lot of that as a boy), and it's always a pleasure to share with my pals I feel... even dogs.
(Yes, I like dogs, very much... sometimes? They're utterly hilarious, & will die for you even. Small wonder we esteem them so highly in our societies worldwide)
APK
P.S.=> Back on the wolf pup my Pop had? I feel I ought to note this - It NEVER attacked him or others in my family though, & I thought that is important to mention here... & this was actually quite a good article imo, because I often feel/think that many times? DOGS ARE BETTER PEOPLE THAN PEOPLE... pretty sad, but, it IS that way, sometimes... apk
I was with them until they ranked breeds by intelligence.
What they're not telling you (and most of the +3 posts on this thread would indicate that the posters know little of professional dog breeding) is the pedigree of the subjects under test.
I was especially disappointed when they chose to rank the Afghan Hound as one of the "dumber" breeds; which is sorting is such a human trait.
Those who know the history of the Afghan in Europe are aware the breed descends from a very shallow gene pool. Find the history of the breed written in the 19th century by "those who would be king" (Google books maybe?) to read the description of just how intelligent those imperialists found the long-haired variety.
I taught my dog to play a somewhat dumbed-down version of the popular card game Set. It uses 3 different types of milkbones shaded 3 different ways. My dog never picks two solid and one empty - always one from each category - so I think he has the concept of "object-fill" down pat.
It is the same as if you were eating a 2-year-old child.
Once you start despising the jerks, you become one.
"Average two-year-old children as stupid as dogs."
Humans are just animals that are smarter than all the others. No better than any other in the grand scheme of things. Just look at how well we kill each other and now making great headway at making the world unlivable for all.
I don't have a whole lot to add to the meat of the discussion, but thought some might be amused by the following way my dog (a Boston Terrier) tries to "deceive." He sometimes wants to go for a longer walk than I do, so when we're getting close to home he pulls in the opposite direction. Of course, I say No, sharply, and direct him home. But he's also learned that if he needs to poop, I'll let him. So, nearing home, he heads for a tree and goes into a crouch, watching me all the time. When he thinks I'm sufficiently deceived, he stands up (without pooping of course -- he didn't really have to go) and starts pulling off in the opposite direction. He seems to think I'll have forgotten I'm actually headed home. I find this quite hilarious.
Someone else mentioned that when you point, a dog will look where you are pointing whereas a wolf will look at the finger. Some months ago I read an article about research on autism and its association with "mirror neurons" -- neurons (postulated, I think) that are responsible for appropriate mimicry: what it is that makes a baby imitate your facial expression when he can't see his own face in the mirror. Autistic children lack this ability, apparently, as do chimpanzees. It was also mentioned in the article that chimpanzees, unlike dogs, but apparently like wolves, will look at the finger (and not where you are pointing) when you point.
Since pigs are apparently more intelligence than dogs, I'd like to see them to the same study with pigs. They people with pigs can be all like, "My pig is smarter than your 4 year old! LOL"
P.S.=> Back on the wolf pup my Pop had? I feel I ought to note this - It NEVER attacked him or others in my family though, & I thought that is important to mention here... & this was actually quite a good article imo, because I often feel/think that many times? DOGS ARE BETTER PEOPLE THAN PEOPLE... pretty sad, but, it IS that way, sometimes... apk
What people have to understand is that dogs, like all other animals, often act on instinct. So you have to understand the underlying instincts of any animal you wish to make your pet.
Many breeds of dog are bred to be very gentle - companions dogs if you will. Labs are one of these breeds. Labs were bred to desire the company of their owner and to gently retrieve game birds and other objects. Being gentle is of great importance as one does not want to damage the objects being retrieved.
Now take a pit bull - bred for an entirely different purpose. Bred for strength and aggression while used for bull/bear-baiting or for hunting wild boar. Basically, the dog had to attack, bite, and not let go. Of course this made the breed perfect for dog fighting where these qualities were also reinforced.
Why is this important? Because under the right environment any animal can be "triggered" and those basic instincts come out. That lovely puppy that never hurt anyone can instantly turn into a killer. For example, my father owns sled dogs. His musher friend had his 4 year old son run out to see him in the dog lot. While passing one dog - a dog that had seen the boy several times before and had never shown any signs of aggression - the boy tripped, fell, and started crying. The sight of a small animal in distress combined with the sound of the screaming triggered the dog and the boy got his head chewed on - there was major damage.
So my point is this. Understand that your pet is an animal and will act accordingly. Should you have a breed of dog that was bred to be aggressive, do not let that dog get into a position where they might hurt someone. Extra care is required. My beef with owners of pit bulls is that they often do not acknowledge the true nature of the breed thereby putting others at risk. Possibly this is because pit bulls are "cool" and the owners are often young and irresponsible. But regardless, there is nothing wrong with the breed - just accept them for what they are and act accordingly.
Now with respect to wolfs as pets - you can be almost guaranteed that they will get out and kill things. It's simply their nature. Having a pet wolf is horribly irresponsible and disrespectful of anyone living within 20 miles of your residence.
An interesting note about dog attacks and German shepherds; On a national survey of dog attacks, German shepherds rank quite high as a breed that bites people. But there is a huge distinction between shepherds and, for example, pit bulls. Pit bulls tended to bite less frequently but when they did bite they caused massive damage. They are stronger and when they bite they don't stop until what they're biting has been torn to pieces. German shepherds have different instincts resulting in a different type of bite. The first type is a nip designed to herd sheep - but is also commonly applied to kids. These bites are fast and usually do not break skin. The second type is a "hold and pull" designed to move sheep. For example, if a sheep is stuck in a creek the shepherd would drag it out of the creek. Shepherds also apply this to kids, dragging them if they feel they are in danger (watched it happen to my sister).
Oh, and with respect to the whole "DOGS ARE BETTER PEOPLE THAN PEOPLE" thing, you are absolutely correct. We are also animals driven by instinct. We can be "triggered" to attack just like a dog. Just try endangering a child in front of their mother to see this in action. Anyway, we can selectively breed dogs to have the instincts we desire but we can't change ourselves...
Cow evolution has been driven by unnatural selection for a long time. We've sculpted the animal to be naturally docile. If the dumb tail waggin variety are more likely to reproduce curtesy of our intervention, then you get a race of big dumb cows.
Less interestingly but more practically - it's not like a cow ever came back from the slaughterhouse to warn the rest of them!
and you can't ---- them when they grow up
What evidence do you have that cows march happily off to the slaughterhouse? Or that tail wagging in a cow means they are happy? When I was a kid, we raised some "beefers". We had one slaughtered and the other cried and behaved oddly -- the first cow was butchered near the barn, not at some far away place.
Personally, I just don't eat mammals anymore. I'm not sure where the "too smart eat" line is, but I've quit eating in my own class at least. Birds concern me to some degree, but crustaceans don't. Anyway, if it has a neocortex, I won't eat it.
What changed under Obama? Nothing Good
A dog knows 200 words? A two-year-old child only knows two: "no!" and "mine!"
We have wolves on our farm. They herd, guard and tend our livestock. This has surprised more than a few visitors. Our pack members know about 300 to 500 human words, hand signs and whistles we use for communicating. Those raised in the pack pick this up even faster, from the older ones. Recently we brought in a new dog to the pack who after some time was accepted and is quickly learning. That one is less wolf than our other pack members but certainly picking things up quickly.
Jeez both of you -- quit the partisan namecalling and get a dose of reality. Both republicans and democrats are 100% at fault for the problems we have. They both suck and they both are working as hard as possible to bankrupt America for some small personal gains. We need need quit pretending that either party has America's interest at heart and get some real leaders.
What changed under Obama? Nothing Good
Do they run Linux?
2-year kids do.
Sort of like the Republicans over the last decade, right? I mean, with all of those WMDs in Iraq and tax breaks for companies outsourcing middle class IT and accounting jobs, the middle class did oh so well!
You mean the WMDs that Bill Clinton - DEMOCRAT - bombed Iraq over? I guess he lied, too, eh?
Or are only Democrats allowed to tell lies in your world? "I did not have sex with that woman!" and all is probably "just about sex" to you, and not sexual harassment, perjury, and obstruction of justice. Don't think Whitewater was about obstruction of justice? Guess where Webb Hubbell got a job, paying him lots of money to do nothing? Revlon. Guess who got him that job? Vernon Jordan. How does Monica Lewinski fit in? Guess where she wound up working for lots of money to do nothing? Revlon. Guess who got her that job? Vernon Jordan. Yeah, no pattern of conduct regarding obstruction of justice there....
And now your Baracky - the great bringer of Hopenchange! - is LYING about his goal of a single-payer health care system. And you're happy to let him do it.
Geez, I'd LOVE to know what you'd think if George W. Bush had set up an email account like "flag@whitehouse.gov". You know, it's illegal for the White House to delete emails, and it's also illegal for them to keep private data like they kind Obama solicited with that Stasi-inspired snitch account.
At least Bush was trying to go after Al Qaeda terrorists with his wiretapping. Obama is OPENLY going after US citizens for POLITICS with that snitch email account. Thug Chicago politics are OK with you though, right?
You'd probably dispute that damn near all dictators come from the political LEFT, too.
Calling you stupid would be an insult to a brainless dog.
her FAVORITE TREAT - Chocolate!
You do know that the theobromine in chocolate is neurotoxic and cardiotoxic to dogs, don't you?
Have you ever tried to teach a 2 year old to sit?
What evidence do you have that cows march happily off to the slaughterhouse?
Fundamentalists don't need evidence. They will just claim whatever "facts" support their political agenda, and then it must be true. If you disagree, you obviously are a Godless anti-American.
If dogs are as intelligent as human 2 year olds is it right for Huntingdon Life Sciences to do painful experiments on them?
http://www.shac.net/science/vivi_intro.html
...dogs are smart enough to fake being only as smart as a 2 year old on tests, so that they can continue their pampered lifestyles and not be put to work on Wall St.
And how do they know that they didn't get the genius or stupid dogs? I didn't read the article, but did they actually take several from each breed and average the results?
I, for one, welcome my child-like, canine underlings!
her FAVORITE TREAT - Chocolate!
You do know that the theobromine in chocolate is neurotoxic and cardiotoxic to dogs, don't you?
I really would like to know where this comes from. Is it from real research, or is it merely an "old wives tale?" Something that "everyone knows."
My reasoning is that when I was younger we had a Cavalier King Charles Spaniel. That particular breed of dog has an expected life span is only between seven and ten years yet ours, who ate chocolate at least twice a week for her entire life, lived to be 14.
I am not stubborn. I am right!
If dogs are as intelligent as human 2 year olds is it right for Huntingdon Life Sciences to do painful experiments on them?
Yes, all the more reason. I don't think the results would be so useful if we used molluscs instead.
REALLY nasty ?
You clearly have no understanding of how evolution works.
Evolution isn't some "magic memory" passed on magically from one cow that dies to all other cows that are born after that. Evolution is the result of tiny mutations that for one reason or another have been continuously passed down from generation to generation. All of the cows that have "realized" that they were about to be slaughtered (not that they would be capable of that kind of realization in the first place) have also been... well, slaughtered.
Not that this study had much to do with evolution. It just has to do with dog's current levels of intelligence.
I have also seen well-behaved children and dogs. Guess what their parents are like?
Umm... either dead or they are orphans?
I asked my sister's dog, "Hi Dolly, wheeeeere's Geordi? Wheeere's Geordi!!?" Dolly lead me out the door, inside the garage, and to the kennel where Geordi was. It was just incredibly interesting to me that she seemed to have a concept of "where" and "the other dog."
When I was a kid, we raised some "beefers". We had one slaughtered and the other cried and behaved oddly -- the first cow was butchered near the barn, not at some far away place.
I have witnessed this exact same situation. Our neighbors had two cows and had one slaughtered by a mobile slaughter truck. The remaining cow bellowed loudly over and over the next few days and hung around the spot where the other cow was slaughtered.
I'm a 2 year old human you insensitive clod!
Let me start by saying that I did not read everything everyone else wrote. I didnt see anyone even broaching on my thoughts or ideas on the subject while skimming through everyones comments though. So here goes. Micro evolution at its finest. The more an animal behaves/looks like a human the more likely humans are going to make an effort to preserve the life of that species of animal. My theory is that domesticated animals have been getting smarter. Cats, dogs, pigs, sheep, cows, even the foxes that someone in England decided to domesticate. I cant time travel to prove this, however the foxes are a good example of this. But who cares? It all works its way down to survival. If i was stranded on an island with 12 dogs and no food, my only chance for survival would be to kill a dog, and feed it to the other dogs, eating some of it myself. Same goes with any other intelligent animal, cats, pigs, even people! Does it matter that they are more intelligent then we thought they were? IMHO, no, mostly because I would be the first person, on that island stranded with you, to kill you. Hence the anonymous. Long pig anyone?
I had an older labrador retriever. We got a new puppy. I would throw treats, and the lab would run after it- the younger dog was faster and would get there first and gobble the treat. After two times (2. exactly.) of this, I would throw the treat, and the lab would run THE OTHER WAY. When the younger dog overtook him and headed where he was going, the older dog would just turn around and leisurely get the treat the way it was thrown.
You are a product of your environment. --Unknown
Slashdot = Sarcasm
I have been there as they wag their tails, my granpa was a farmer. The ones I seen seemed as happy as they were just feed.
Or that tail wagging in a cow means they are happy?.
Don't cows use their tails to swat away flies?
I'm not sure if the modes deleted my reply or if I lost it, after all I got a -1 and called flame baiting. In reality I'm only trying to add to the discussion and show some of the other side. I would hope my post be allowed to stand (about cows being dumb enough to seem happy as they wag their tails all the way to the slaughter house. My grandpa was a farmer. If a typical pet dog has evolved over the years due to human intervention then I can not understand why more livestock don't seem to expect us to kill and eat them. After all is it not possible such dogs were originally choose as pets due to their intelligence and treatment of the alpha male (leader of the dog pack), which was replaced by their human master?
History proves that people from far ago seen dogs as being very smart. I agree a two year old baby sounds about right to compare to a smart dog. Should we really conclude they were "domesticated" (evolved) to being what they are now? Could they of not been this way many thousands of years ago too? DO we have any true evidence that pet dogs have got smarter and more human like over the thousands of years of breeding?
Parrots are some of the smartest animals I have ever seen. But I would think a parrot would skunk a chicken pretty bad on an IQ test, yet chickens have been breed around humans far longer (to the best of my knowledge), but even wild caught parrots have proven very smart.
I have a fox terrier. Hes a smart little bugger and he knows it. I have numerous examples of him outsmarting people, but the one I love to tell is him outsmarting my wife.
She was sitting watching TV eating her dinner, it was a steak and some vegetables. Usually we are bad and cut bits off for the dog to eat with us, but she was hungry and it was only a small piece of steak so tonight the dog got his own meat and none of hers. He likes steak.
He watched her eating the steak and asked nicely if he could have some (he will pat your leg to remind you he hasn't had any yet). After being told no several times he got grumpy and sat down for a bit. All of a sudden he starts to bark loudly and growls and runs toward the front door. My wife jumps up putting her dinner down on the couch and runs to see what he is growling at. He sneaks past her as she runs down to an empty door. When she returns the steak is gone and the dog is no where to be seen.
He has tried this same trick again on her since then but she remembered to put her dinner higher up where he cant get it. He tried it on me and promptly got told to shut up, so he came back and sulked in front of me.
Sometimes I wonder about the details researchers pull out of their asses. The statement that really gets me is the notion that children don't deliberately deceive until later in life. Is that so? I have an 18-month old daughter and she's already done what I'd consider deceptive things for months now. The most obvious example that comes to mind she does is when she extends her arm, with an item in hand, to give it to us. As we reach for it she pulls away and smiles. What was she doing if not deceiving us as a joke?
I've grown up with dogs and cats and currently have 4 cats. An adult dog or cat doesn't correspond to x human years. In terms of what my daughter is capable of she already runs circles around our cats. However, I'm hard-pressed to say she's ahead of them in any meaningful way. My cats convey maturity, it's clear their adults and their thought processes function accordingly. They're certainly more mature in how they react to situations. Maybe they don't have the ability to imagine anything beyond their existence, or maybe they just don't care and are content with the way things are.
Without question dogs understand far more than cats do. And even when cats do understand something they aren't necessarily inclined to respond. And I have a cat who as far as cats go is probably a genius. Among other things he figured out that when the button was pressed on the alarm clock it would beep and started doing that to wake me up. I've seen him run at a box and push it at another cat on the opposite side. He's also tried to do things, in some cases trying to replicate what we do, that he isn't physically capable of. I've basically seen these cats do things that I've seen people claim they shouldn't be able to do.
I'd say in terms of being able to use what cats or dogs have at their disposal they will be more advanced than a child well beyond that child's first few years. However, in terms of sheer capability it's no content, a human child is far beyond any animal. In terms of emotional development, however, cats and dogs are nearly as sophisticated as humans. I suppose there might be more complex emotions unique to humans, but all the important ones are there.
Your dog is smarter than a ReThuglican Jew
Crows or other corvids are very smart too (smarter than chimps in some ways). Anyway, given the sorts of stuff they eat, it's probably a good idea to not eat them ;).
Octopuses are also quite smart. At least one seem to have rather poor memory though - forgets after a few days and has to relearn stuff.
http://www.pitara.com/discover/earth/online.asp?story=111
I had a pet Doberman as a kid. She kept on getting outside the house, and we thought my lil brother was leaving doors open. Turned out she figured out how to open locked doors, and open screen doors. She also liked to sneak up behind people, and goose their butt with her nose.
Now I have a labby/Jindo (Korean dog) mix. He knows about 40 words so far, and learns new commands in 2 weeks. Best command yet was right and left lean, so that he doesn't fall over in my car, taking corners.
What really freaked me out was that he figured out that my call pager was important (I'm a doctor). He figured out BY HIMSELF, that when the pager went off, that I needed to get it. He kept on putting his head on my lap - which is his was of getting out attention, if I didn't hear it go off in another part of the house.
That was cool - except now I'm wishing he wasn't neutered - I want some pups of his eventually.
..........FULL STOP.
Is there any software/system out there to help dogs "talk"?
Not the silly "bark" translation software. I mean serious stuff - e.g. a bunch of pedals/buttons which the dog can press to say stuff (nouns verbs etc).
Stephen Hawking uses a computer system to talk to others, why not help dogs do that too?
We had one slaughtered and the other cried and behaved oddly -- the first cow was butchered near the barn, not at some far away place.
Do you find it strange that the herbivore was frightened of the smell of blood?
kidsaredumb dogsaredumb
kidsaredogs
And here's mine.
My significant other = my cat = my family > animals > humans
I knew someone who owned several dogs before having his first child. He kept us updated on dog vs. baby intelligence, and by 18 months still gave the dog the edge.
I guess this is why biology Ph.Ds shouldn't have kids.
LOS ANGELES--A surprising new study released Monday by UCLA's Institute For Child Development revealed that human babies, long thought by psychologists to be highly inquisitive and adaptable, are actually extraordinarily stupid.
The study, an 18-month battery of intelligence tests administered to over 3,500 babies, concluded categorically that babies are "so stupid, it's not even funny."
According to Institute president Molly Bentley, in an effort to determine infant survival instincts when attacked, the babies were prodded in an aggressive manner with a broken broom handle. Over 90 percent of them, when poked, failed to make even rudimentary attempts to defend themselves. The remaining 10 percent responded by vacating their bowels.
"It is unlikely that the presence of the babies' fecal matter, however foul-smelling, would have a measurable defensive effect against an attacker in a real-world situation," Bentley said.
Another test, in which the infants were placed on a mound of dirt outdoors during a torrential downpour, produced similarly bleak results.
"The chicken, dog and even worm babies that we submitted to the test as a control group all had enough sense to come in from the rain or, at least, seek shelter under a leafy clump of vegetation or outcropping of rock," test supervisor Thomas Howell said. "The human babies, on the other hand, could not grasp even this incredibly basic concept, instead merely lying on the ground and making gurgling noises."
According to Howell, almost 60 percent of the infants tested in this manner eventually drowned.
Some of the babies tested were actually so stupid that they choked to death on pieces of Micronaut space toys. Others, unable to use such primitive instruments as can openers and spoons due to insufficient motor skills, simply starved to death, despite being surrounded by cabinets full of nutritious, life-giving Gerber-brand baby-food products.
Babies, the study concluded, are also too stupid to do the following: avoid getting their heads trapped in automatic car windows; use ice to alleviate the pain of burn injuries resulting from touching an open flame; master the skills required for scuba diving; and use a safety ladder to reach a window to escape from a room filled with cyanide gas.
"As a mother of four, I find these results very disheartening," Bentley told reporters. "I can honestly say that the effort I have expended trying to raise my children into intelligent beings may have been entirely wasted--a fool's dream, if you will."
Study results also prompted a strong reaction from President Clinton. "All of us, on some primitive, mammalian level, feel a great sense of pride in our offspring," Clinton said. "It is now clear, however, that these feelings are unfounded. Given the overwhelming evidence of their profound stupidity, we have no choice but to replace our existing infant population with artificially incubated simu-drones, with the eventual goal of phasing out the shamefully stupid human baby forever."
You're not the only one - I stopped eating large-brained critters about 2 years ago now. Some bird species are out of the question (crows/ravens), and a few molluscs, too. Pretty much all mammals, of course. I know a few people that are kind of slouching toward the same thing. Everyone's downfall seems to be bacon. :-)
Maybe you are wrong. Maybe not all the bad people have bad dogs and not all the good people have good dogs. Maybe you are just letting your prejudice colour your judgement. Maybe you haven't really done any research on the subject and you haven't noticed a connection between behaviour and ownership of dogs. Maybe you have fallen foul of the Hollywood stereotyping on this subject.
On the other hand you might be right.
People are not comfortable with eating intelligent animals and cows are intelligent enough, the fact that they trust the people who raise them to lead them off for slaughter isn't a sign of stupidity. Your average small child would be as trusting.
Funny thing is we tend to reward animals that escape the slaughter house with a reprieve. Is this just due to a natural support of the underdog or perhaps that the animal will know whats coming and will freak out and alert the other animals to whats going on.
Chickens tend not to show the same survival instinct but being raised in a cage unable to move or see daylight is it any wonder they tend to just sit there when accidentally released early from a cage. death might seem a welcome release from such a poor quality of life.
An interesting thing is the difference between an animal and meat, it seems for most people once an animal has had its head removed it transitions from being an animal and some emotional involvement, to becoming meat something to eat.
I'm not a vegetarian by any means and I enjoy meat and fish, you can't beat eating fish that you have caught and prepared yourself (assuming you master deboning).
Some people think its cruel to do your own slaughtering and butchery, it could be if you didn't ensure a rapid and as pain free as possible death for the animal. It's not a good thing that people are divorced from the reality of how meat is produced because it means low standards of care get applied to animals while they are alive in the name of cheap meat production and maximum profit.
Honestly if you choose to eat meat you should choose to be informed about its production.
It's funny but a lot of racism seems to flow in the same way, denigrating intelligence, emphasizing small differences in order to treat people as less than human. Perhaps if there was a better understanding of killing and cruelty there would be less of it in the world.
Blarney Quality Restaurant, Plants
I've always been amazed by the German Shepherd breed for its intelligence. I heard a story about a week ago with regard to a German Shepherd attack dog that had gone through training a couple years previous to the incident. There were two shepherds going through exercises. The first one hadn't been through them in two years, the younger one was going through it for the first time.
The trainer was out in the dog bite suit, and told the owner to give the command to attack for the older dog. The owner did, the older dog went in front then stopped about 10 feet from the trainer and watched him. The owner was thinking what a crappy attack dog when the trainer told the owner to call the dog off. The owner called the dog off and the trainer came up to the owner and said he was impressed. This is when it started to click for me. The owner was confused, the dog had not gone and attacked the trainer, what was so impressive about that. The trainer explained that previously he had taught that very dog to only attack if the target moved. The dog remembered, despite not having reinforcing training in a while, that it's only supposed to attack if the target moves, and that it is supposed to keep the target still until the owner arrives.
I just wish I knew where my other favorite breed landed on the smart to dumb scale.
"Lack of speed can be overcome. In the worst case by patience." --Znork
The cat doesn't care what you think because, in effect, like a human psychopath the relevant bit of brain is too small. This, btw, is why neurologists prefer cats for experiments. The results aren't affected by how the cat feels about its handler today, or the sudden dislike it's taken to the researcher.
From scarped cliff or quarried stone she cries "A thousand types are gone, I care for nothing, no not one."
Actually, if you're concerned about intelligence, bird brains are supposedly much more efficient than mammal brains (need lots of processing power with low mass, which supposedly has driven efficiency of cognitive processes). Apparently, as reported several times in the last few months, many corvids score higher than most primates, including most apes (I'm excluding humans here), in intelligence scores. And some are quite adept at making tools (though so far only for a limited number of tasks as far as I've seen reported). I for one welcome our future feathered overlords. But in the meantime, if it bothers you to eat smart food, you might try to drop the chicken from your diet.
I like my dinosaurs feathery, and my pterosaurs hairy (or is it pycnofibery?)
I had a major argument with a family member in the past over dogs (of which I own 2), and their intelligence. ....and you are too weak to defend against me.
His point of view was more like, because we are more intelligent we have more of a right to live then they do.
I told him, if intelligence is your way of weening out the weak and keeping the strong, then I would have to say
give me your wallet, cause I am stronger then you , and can hurt you
Also, I told him that the amount of times I was surprised by their curiosity on certain things and / or their intelligence when they really want something... my older dog, is very quick, she knows when she barks, the smaller male, tends to want to bark with her, whether to help her or to just enjoy a good bark, which would make him drop what ever bone he had in his mouth, she then would proceed towards the door, giving him the impression their might be someone at the door, and half way through would stop, back step and go for his bone, and scoop it up and lie down to enjoy the new found chew toy.
I have many similar stories too many to mention, but trust me, the level of intelligence is growing, whether it is through our interaction or not, there is something that slowly is driving the average intelligence in dogs.
They recognize words, feelings, movements...even songs.
Just asking!
If Google really cared they would fix Android Chrome to reflow text, instead of discriminating
duh,
How much did NSF pitch into this? I have told people my dog can understand sentences for years.
In fact, my wife tried to trick him by sayign "Klaw" for walk (like you do for kids).
He learned this after about the third time, and now wants to go outside for either word.
Fred can differentiate between car and truck when we are going for a ride, and he can understand when we are going to be gone overnight.
I explain to him how many days by telling him how many nights, and he seems to understand (I tell him we will be gone for three nights, and he knows I swear it is amazing.
He can communicate when he is out of water, food, and other things by facial gestures.
He will play the "counting game" sometimes, when he is standing up by the footstool, and I tap the top of the footstool, Fred will mimic and tap if I use my right hand, he will use his right paw.
He will also wink at me if I do it first.
Also, if I am taking him outside to do his work, he likes to chase other animals.
I have to expressly tell him not too chase specific animals (cats, chickens, ducks, geese, etc) or he will select the one or ones I forgot to tell him.
He can also tell if someone is "good or bad". We used to rely on Fred to screen our daughters friends and "boyfriends". If the dog didn't like them, they were not allowed to visit.
He was always uncannily accurate with this, be it strangers or people we "knew" but he didn't.
Dogs are much smarter than kids at 2 I would say.
Smarter and perhaps more intuitive than many people.
Jim
That would make dogs smarter than the average PHB and some bank CEOs
In other news, a study reported that Creationists are as intelligent as average two year old dogs.
A guy takes his dog to a talent agent, telling the agent he has a talking dog.
The dog owner asks the dog, "What's my name". The dog barks. The dog owner says, "See that? He said "Ralph".
The dog owner asks the dog, "What's on the top of a house". The dog barks. The dog owner says, "See that? He said "roof".
The dog owner asks the dog, "Who's the greatest baseball player of all time". The dog barks. The dog owner says, "See that? He said "Ruth".
The talent agent kicks the dog owner and dog out of the office. The dog tells the owner, "Maybe I should have said DiMaggio".
My dog, somehow, knows when we've ordered pizza. My wife's a pizza nut, and between her and the two teenagers, we order pizza at least once a week. Somehow, our dog knows when pizza is on the way. She'll sit on the couch, staring at the driveway, and as soon as she sees the pizza guy coming down the street, she goes nuts. She'll ignore every other car that drives down the street. We don't order from the same place every time, ordering from whoever we have coupons for. I don't know if she can distinguish between a car with a sign on top vs. one without, or how she knows, but somehow she does. It's weird, but funny as hell to watch.
Here:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=pIAoJsS9Ix8
The kid learns nothing. The ape learns in one try.
For 15-20 years, I've been saying that dogs top out equivalent to humans between two and four, *maybe* five, and now I see I've been proven correct.
Next proof: I say that cat's top out at humans bertween six and nine or ten. Please note that this means that they have their *own* agenda, which is probably *not* yours.
mark
--
The truth will out: someone got it at last:
Dogs have masters; cats have staff.
Yes, a fully mature dog can exhibit behavior in a couple of ways (vocabulary and simple counting) that is similar to a 2 year old child but that's hardly an indication that they're of "equal" intelligence, whatever that means. I don't think you can make valid intelligence comparisons between species by taking a couple of measurements. It's difficult enough to measure intelligence within a species.
When he was 2, my son could put together 50 piece jigsaw puzzles that he had never seen before. Intelligence testing has shown that my son has an IQ that is above average, but is not considered highly intelligent or "gifted". It seems to me that given the right conditions and motivation, the average 2 year old could probably accomplish a similar task. I really doubt a dog could do the same even if the dog had a helper to manipulate the puzzle pieces.
The problem with preferring birds to mammals is that you have to kill a bird just about every day to feed a family of four, whereas the death of a single cow will suffice for most of a year.
Agreed on the crustaceans, though - they're practically insects.
Textbooks and Open Educational Resources
Owners of a cattle prod?
Wait, what was the question?
Everyone's downfall seems to be bacon. :-)
There's some kind of perfect storm of the senses in bacon. Not to veer too close to being on topic, but I made some bacon yesterday for breakfast, and our puppy was standing next to me, rolling around, much more completely out of her mind than usual. I don't think she's ever eaten bacon before then, but she was loopy at the smell.
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
I'm not sure where the "too smart eat" line is, but I've quit eating in my own class at least. Birds concern me to some degree, but crustaceans don't. Anyway, if it has a neocortex, I won't eat it.
So you'll eat crawfish, but will you suck the heads? :-)
If this is true, then cats must be about as smart as an average third-grade teacher.
What I want to know is at what age a child can figure out how to unwrap a leash that they've wound around a tree. I've never seen a dog figure that one out. I'm honestly sort of tempted to subject my children to this test once a year until they defeat it, just to determine at what age they can be considered superior to dogs.
So, on the basis that this sort of establishes that dogs have the smarts but not the thumbs nor the voice-box...
How many of you biogeneticists are up for creating a Neodog or Caleb, a la Heinlein?
Does this mean I can have my 2 year old crawl through the doggy door and fetch my newspaper in the morning without feeling guilty about it ?
Wanna fight ? Bend over, stick your head up your ass, and fight for air.
The average dog is about as bright linguistically as a human two-year-old," said Professor Stanley Coren, a leading expert on canine intelligence at the University of British Columbia in Vancouver who has carried out the work.
Direct quote from the telegraph.co.uk article.
/. commenting crowd would actually *read the sourced article* rather than blathering on using the slashdot headline and other comments as their complete reference.
;)
If you're going to nit-pick a quote meant for public consumption, at least pick on the complete quote. Most people here are missing the "linguistically" part of it.
It's disappointing that one can't expect that the
I know it would be way to much to expect them to just take the two year-old human comparison for what was supposed to be: a comparison that gives context to an average person as to the findings of the study.
For the first year or so, bacon was a struggle. I tried turkey bacon but that just didn't cut it. It has now been more than three years I've been off mammals and I can't recall the last time I wanted bacon. It doesn't really appeal to me anymore.
What changed under Obama? Nothing Good
You can have an Einstein of a dog, but I assure you, he is no match for a 5 year old, never mind the 6 year old. For you to draw that comparison just shows you have a very unrealistic view and are rather ignorant.
Unless, and I risk offending some, the 6 year old is retarded (I don't mean that as a name calling).
Show me a dog that can match a 5-year old's vocabulary, creativity, comprehension of concepts (not just facts, but yes, actual concepts) and that can learn complex tasks by having it explained just ONCE. A 5-year old can open and close doors with locks of various designs by applying previous experience and knowledge AND ability to build something new with that knowledge. A well trained dog is much more limited. I had a decently trained German Sheppard, so I do have some background in dealing with dogs, though it is not as comprehensive as yours.
As for the stupidest of the breeds equaling a 2 year old? That's outright trolling, my friend.
Some dog (or cat) lovers are blinded by their own admiration of the pets. The number of people who compared taking care of their pet dog puppy to my child (then infant) is staggering. To all such people I say, Get Real. And try having a baby. Or perhaps it's best if they won't.
Cats are just as "human smart" as dogs, but they have a reversed perception of the relationship. For example, one of my cats will wake me up within about 10 minutes of the correct time if my alarm doesn't go off. Does she do this for me? No. She does it because she gets tummy rubs in the morning while I'm getting ready. Another cat has taken to tapping me awake sometimes in the middle of the night to let me know that he needs me to open the bedroom door. He needs the litter box, and so he needs my thumbs to get the door open.
Cats don't learn tricks for us. Cats make US learn tricks.
:::The Spear in the heart of the Other is the Spear in the heart of You; You are He - Surak of Vulcan:::
If dogs are intellectually equivalent to human 2 year olds should these types of things be done to dogs? Hunington Life Sciences is still in operation in the US and the UK
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCef3FCv1U8
Saying the dog is as intelligent as a two-year-old is like saying that Fuji apples are as delicious as french onion soup. The two things in question are not comparable.
Dog intelligence and human intelligence are entirely different things. They're motivated by different factors, and they accomplish different goals.
To understand animals, we have to stop thinking of them as defective humans.
"...A survey of more than 200 dog obedience judges in the US and Canada...." No wonder the stupid labs and border collies won! Fetch Oscar, fetch. As far as the Pavlovian one or two bone treats test--a joke. Try it with your two year old. Hunting dogs are far more intelligent than these couch potatoes, and fence runners. Plott hounds bred from the 1750's in western North Carolina are the most intelligent of all; they'll eat "obedience judges", well maybe not due to the weird smell.
They call also tell you what goes on top of a house.
They can tell you what sand paper feels like.
They can tell you what goes on the outside of a tree.
For the first year or so, bacon was a struggle. I tried turkey bacon but that just didn't cut it. It has now been more than three years I've been off mammals and I can't recall the last time I wanted bacon. It doesn't really appeal to me anymore.
My first husband said that too, just substitute sex for bacon/mammals.
We divorced shortly after he started working for Senator Larry Craig.
... that this is still being debated. Anyone who has lived with a dog knows they are intelligent creatures.
One interesting fact I noticed a while ago was how many mammals are called by something different once they have been turned into meat. Cows become beef, Pigs become pork, bacon, ham, Deer become venison. While birds are still referred to as turkey, chicken, duck, etc.
I wonder if this is due to the fact that humans feel a greater connection with mammals and have trouble eating them unless they call the meat by a different name.
My family used to raise a couple hundred chickens for slaughter each spring. We used the same breed that Tyson uses, and trust me putting them in a cage where they don't have to move around is what makes them happy. We raised ours in a coop with an open door to a free range area. They would venture outside maybe once in their eight week life. They would instead fight over sitting in the optimum location with the shortest path between the food and water feeders. They put on eight pounds of edible meat in as many weeks, they don't have time to do anything except eat and sleep all day.
....Swift's Modest Proposal was satire, not a fact, something that hasn't been pointed out yet.
teleny, friend of cats.
Not to be a debbie downer, but does this remind anyone else of clever hans? It'd be interesting to see what techniques the researchers used to avoid that problem.