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Star Wars TV Show Tainted By Memories of Jar Jar
bowman9991 writes "Can George Lucas' new Star Wars TV series, the first Star Wars spin off with real actors, atone for the flawed follow-ups to his original classics? Producer Rick McCallum calls the new series 'much darker,' a 'much more character-based series' and 'more adult,' while George Lucas himself calls it more like the first Star Wars film. The new TV show takes place in the 'dark times' between the last prequel Star Wars Episode III: Revenge of the Sith and Star Wars Episode IV: A New Hope, when most of the Jedi and anti-emperor politicians were hunted down and killed. The characters of Boba Fett, C-3PO, and the Emperor Palpatine will return, and casting has now begun. Mark Hamill, the actor who played Luke Skywalker from the original movies, believes George Lucas lost his way, 'making it bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger until you're just exploding with special effects all over the screen like some fireworks display,' but thinks the new show is a 'positive' step forward. Hopefully George Lucas can wipe the memory of Jar Jar Binks, Anakin and Padme's romance, his shameless merchandising, and some lame attempts at humor from everyone's minds once and for all."
Hopefully, this show will get it right, and have a little bit of depth to it.
The Institute of Incomplete Research has determined that 9 of out 10
Hopefully George Lucas can wipe the memory of Jar Jar Binks, Anakin and Padme's romance, his shameless merchandising, and some lame attempts at humor from everyone's minds once and for all.
Don't bet on it.
"Hopefully George Lucas can wipe the memory of Jar Jar Binks, Anakin and Padme's romance, his shameless merchandising, and some lame attempts at humor from everyone's minds once and for all."
I had managed to block all that crap from my consciousness. That is, until you brought it up again just now. Thanks a lot - you can expect to see my therapist's bill.
I find your excess of faith disturbing.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
As long as its better than the Xmas special that most of us try to forget, I'll give it a shot.
We want sequels to Return of the Jedi. Wasn't he originally going to do 3 sets of trilogies: with the 3rd set later on, and the only common characters would be the 2 droids?
I recall watching the original Ep.4 as a 12 year old. The bar scene was particularly intense because it showed humans as a bit player in a big, bad universe. Fast forward to the updated remake with the CGI singer - just another funny looking alien to laugh at. The two headed announcer in the pod race scene is another example - funny aliens who exist primarily for the amusement of a human dominated universe. I don't think Lucas ever grasped this difference.
I have mod points. The reign of terror begins now.
...first in the opening sequence of every episode
Memories of Jar Jar sounds like a fragrance that George Lucas would put on the market.
Who??
And there are no prequels, and there is no way to ever make any. Any possible existence of Star Wars prequels have been curiously eliminated in the space time continuum. Interestingly the same applies to the much later stand-alone sci-fi movie Matrix (in case anyone wondered why no sequels were ever made). No one knows why this stands as such immutable facts though.
"There is no fixed release date for the show, but it's expected sometime in 2011 or 2012..."
Lets see, the Mayans called it in 2012.
Nostradamus called it around 2012.
People are all end times for 2012.
Then we had Jar Jar... DEAR GOD NO!
~~ Behold the flying cow with a rail gun! ~~
Your computer runs on smoke. Once you let the smoke out, you can't put it back in thus your computer has stopped working.
Or in the old days: "Once you let the cat out of the bag..."
The fact was Lucas proved you can in fact destroy a successful cannon of work. Most of the hard core Star Wars fans I knew growing up washed their hands of the whole thing (some even went to the dark side... Trek...)
The whole "Joss Whedon is my master now" was a slap in the face to Lucas I'm sure but I think it is too late for damage control. The MMO crew I play with were chomping at the bit to beta test damn near everything out there with one exception.... the new Star Wars MMO coming out. With the first 3 films plus that train wreck of an MMO and it's subsequent "fixes" the franchise is dead. The inital 3 month subscription figures will be telling on how bad the damage has been.
Warhammer and most AAA MMOs should clear around 500,000 copies in the first 90 days and should clear at least 200,000 in pre-orders. Watching this new MMO release may gauge how much damage the franchise has taken over the years.
Comic runs, novels, etc are all factored into the success. Prior to the first 3 films in the series at the local book store there was an entire section (4 shelves high, arm span length) of Star Wars books. Now it is a single shelf post-prequels. That strikes me as significant damage. That puts the book count equal to Terry Brooks Shannara series and they haven't even gotten a film yet (which is suprising, the first three books strike me as very film\mini-series friendly. In fact now that I think of it the first book The Sword of Shannara would make a pretty good 3 season series or 4 part mini-series. The special effect requirement for his works is actually rather low until Scions...)
-=[ Who Is John Galt? ]=-
There's a 3-way my mind could have done without.
George, there's an easy way to go back to the "good old days" before the prequels (if you haven't seen the 7-part, 1+-hour-long review of the Phantom Menace on youtube, go now and find it). Let somebody else direct them, and you just be a producer. It's clear that nobody on your staff is willing to contradict your "artistic vision," and thus we end up with crap results. Let somebody else direct, and then you throw in some criticism for a back-and-forth, and maybe these won't suck.
But smart money would be on them being terrible.
Why do so many screenwriters equate "something that adults will enjoy" with "darker"?
Most of Raiders of the Lost Ark was not "dark", but I loved it when it came out, and I still really like it. There was action, adventure, wonder, and surprise. There was no soul searching over life's moral ambiguities, or "deep" plot elements where Indy tortured bad guys with car batteries. Similar with the first Star Wars movie (episode 4).
If this is Lucas' attempt to atone for past mistakes, it seems like he's still off the mark.
The opening sentence of the article states "In the history of cinema it's hard to top the utter disappointment felt when watching George Lucas' follow ups to the original Star Wars movies."
I don't know about that. I saw Kingdom of the Crystal Skull.
"There was no Jar Jar" *wave of hand* - Master Lucas
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
I wonder if Lucas is going to do what's been happening to most other movie series (James Bond, Batman, Spider Man, Star Trek, etc) and do a ground up restart on the series. Take it back to a darker, rougher and more realistic level...
I'm not saying that's what it needs, but just seems to be the theme of late in Hollywood...
If a man isn't willing to take some risk for his opinions, either his opinions are no good or he's no good
These days "Much darker than its predecessor" has become Hollywood doublespeak. It means nothing. "This Harry Potter movie will be much darker than the last one" is just the studio's way of trying to get more adults to come see it (at the end of the day, it still ends up being the same PG-13 rated CGI-fest).
Here's a good rule of thumb, if they have to *say* it's much darker, it probably isn't. If you want to see if it's just doublespeak, ask the simple follow-up question "But it's still suitable for kids, right?" If they fall over themselves saying yes, then you know the "much darker" thing is just a con.
SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
We want sequels to Return of the Jedi. Wasn't he originally going to do 3 sets of trilogies: with the 3rd set later on, and the only common characters would be the 2 droids?
Yes, those were the initial plans. Although there was a very important if in their plans. From what I've heard through rumors, Lucas had two trilogies he could tell and he picked the stronger of the two (prequels) to do first. If that was financially successful and well received then he would continue with the sequels. I think this strategy changed with the release of the first or second episode and the latter sequel was canceled altogether.
Keep in mind that Harrison Ford turned down a Han Solo spinoff and opted instead for Kingdom of the Crystal Skull (with a fifth shaping up).
I don't want later sequels. If anything is done in the Star Wars universe, I want the Timothy Zahn Trilogy done as three movies. Thrawn is badass. I want a TV series that takes stories like the "Tales" series of SW books and brings them to life.
Personally I think the characters in Episodes I, II and III were so weak that we need new characters that aren't supposed to fulfill some other plot line's obligations.
My work here is dung.
I suggest that Jorge tell Rick McCallum to go away and hire Mr. Plinkett: http://www.youtube.com/user/RedLetterMedia At least the guy can point the series in the proper direction.
star wars horse has been beaten to death, skinned, gutted, bones and hooves boiled to glue. Then Lucas squatted over the offal and took a shit lasting for years. Time to forget the whole damn thing.
I am a leaf on the wind, watch me soar.
Interestingly the same applies to the much later stand-alone sci-fi movie Matrix
Yeah, well, while it might be fun to speculate on what a Matrix sequel, or even trilogy would have looked like, it's probably a good thing that they didn't make any. I mean, have you seen Speed Racer? Chances are the Warchowski brothers would have f***ed it up with pretty special effects, piss poor plotting, and live-action versions of Japanese animation. And who would want that?
Great sci fi movies don't always need sequels. Blade Runner doesn't need a sequel, neither does the Matrix.
I don't know about you, but I think he should somehow include the storyline used from the game "Star Wars - The Force Unleashed". That was really well done, fits nicely between episodes III and IV, and would make a great film adaptation (or multi-part TV episode).
"Can George Lucas' new Star Wars TV series, the first Star Wars spin off with real actors" It would be the first time real actors were used in the entire Star Wars Saga.
I was going to add that here comes an opportunity to do another Christmas special. I finally saw it a few months ago and my eyes are still leaking.
I don't think you shold be repressing your memories. They will come back and something awful might happen
The world is how you make it
Hopefully George Lucas can wipe the memory of Jar Jar Binks, Anakin and Padme's romance
I must have missed this perverse threesome when I watched the film.
Star Wars prequels.
The biggest hoax in human history.
As I understand it (and most of this is, of course, rumour and speculation), the original trilogy was supposed to go on much longer than it did, with ROTJ not being the last episode. Darth Vader (intended to be a somewhat minor villain) was to be killed, while the hunt for the real villain, the Emperor, would continue in the subsequent episodes. Han Solo was supposed to be killed off, paving the way for the love affair between Luke and Leia (the brother/sister idea was only thrown in at the last minute).
Unfortunately, with Lucas' failed marriage weighing on him, he got sick of making these movies and decided to just wrap everything up quickly and not-so-cleanly in ROTJ.
If he had plans later on to attempt to create a sequel trilogy (of this I have no doubt), it was more of a "milk the cash cow" idea than even the prequels were, because there really is no story left to tell after the destruction of the second Death Star and the death of the Emperor. At least, not a particularly relevant story. I really hope he doesn't ever head down that road.
"You cannot simultaneously prevent and prepare for war." -- Albert Einstein
Darn, and I was hoping for something along the lines of Peewee Herman's BigTop adventures, with Jarjar the main character, constantly breaking the third wall to talk to a juvenile audience about toy endorsements, "Can yousa kids say to Mommy, "Meesaw want Jarjar action figures!" "
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I think I must be about the only person in the world that detested most of the early Extended Universe (Zahn included) stuff as much as he detested the prequels that followed some years later. No idea what the later stuff was like as I never bothered with it, Han Solo calling someone a "panty waste" and lame story after story was just too much for me.
The same could be said of Dune. As we all know well, there were only ever 3 Dune books.
"We found him in the Academy sewers and the burns on the decapitated corpse indicate lightsaber cuts, which means the killer is probably... *beat* It's not a Jedi that I'm looking for. Please move along. Move along!"
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I actually liked Episode 1-3. No trolling. I did !
I liked the new style, even tho it's not "Star Wars", but i still liked it.
He painted an epic world with an infinite amount of possible side stories and spin-offs.
He described a world more then actual characters.
Hey Lucas,
Instead of rehashing the train wreck you made of the Skywalker Saga, why don't you tell the story of the splitting of the Jedi and the Sith. In The Phantom Menace, Darth Maul says "At last we will reveal ourselves to the Jedi. At last we will have revenge." Tell THAT story: why they are in hiding; what are they getting revenge for.
When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
Actually Star Wars very definitely has potential to do 'dark and nasty' and do it well. I mean, think about the key themes in there. It's about a rebellion - freedom fighters, or perhaps 'terrorists'? It's about an oppressive regime, spreading out and being racist (ok, species-ist) across the galaxy.
You'd have plenty of framework to make a political commentary on the war on terror. Mix in a little bit of fundamental differences in culture - the Empire plugs one ideology to people who just don't think that way - and maybe mix in a bit of crooked shenanigans, spaceships and just a shade of jedi mythos/persecution. (Not convinced it needs it though - way better to have a couple of 'dark jedi' bad guys, and have the good guys running scared).
Could be pretty good. Fairly sure it'll never happen mind - George Lucas will want creative control, and he'll go all fluffy and cute.
"when most of the Jedi and anti-emperor politicians were hunted down and killed."
You know what to do George.
I, for one, am glad that there were no sequels to the matrix, it would only have made the whole story worse. I can just see them try to pull off a biblical-type story with Neo as some sort of prodigal 'son'. Including a (second) rebirth. *shudders at the thought* No, better leave well enough alone. :)
80 CC D8 AF AE D3 AB 54 B7 2E CE 67 C7
When did he become a major character? He had, what, 5 lines in all of the movies combined?
The reason the original trilogy wasn't nearly as good (although I felt Episode III was very good) is that the type of story that everyone loves is the hero's journey. Reluctant young kid is someone special and didn't realize it and with help of some wizards/wise older guys triumphs over great forces of evil.
Well the prequels couldn't be that. One, it had to be a tragedy. Two, you also had to explain how the emperor rose to power. I think the second set of stories is what really drug down the prequels. That's where all the "who built the clones?" and the intergalactic trade federation crap came in. It became interesting in the third act but made for a boring overall story in the first two.
Plus, all the setup for Anakin's fall had to be there. And, frankly, that was all somewhat boring as well. In other words, it wasn't a hero's journey type of story.
Except for ending slavery, the Nazis, communism, & securing American independence, war has never solved anything.
15 seasons ? Is Atlantis (I assume you're counting that) really so good that you take it in stride ?
What a depressingly stupid machine.
I was a huge fan of Star Wars until the abomination that was episode 1. I watched episode 2 at the theater we affectionately call "The Welfare Flicks", a second run theater. For the third, I just rented the DVD and that was just for closure. Now, I have no more interest in Star Wars. He f*cked up the originals, and I just don't even care anymore if he ever releases a decent DVD of the originals.
As for my kids, their only interest in Star Wars is a video game with little characters made out of Legos. They couldn't care less about the movies. If they run any of the movies on cable, their attention span is about 15 minutes.
George Lucas killed Star Wars.
Star Wars is tainted by more than the memory of Jarjar. There's three loud, busy, but ultimately empty prequels, terrible acting by people who should know better, idiotic plot developments, a painfully pedestrian, bizarrely animated series, and years and years of disrespect towards the fans from whom he got his wealth.
Never again. I don't care if the new series ignored everything made after Empire Strikes Back and was produced by Ridley Scott and directed by Martin Scorsese. (Which it won't be; it'll be ham-fisted ol' George at the helm, as expected, and he'll make a mess of it, as expected.) Let's all face it -- George Lucas is never going to repeat the success of 1977. It's time to move on. And even if by some bizarre set of circumstances he did, who cares? I'm so through with Star Wars that I was reluctant to spend two minutes to write this. Never again. That ship has sailed. Life is too short for bad TV.
Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
I want the Timothy Zahn Trilogy done as three movies.
Absolutely, the Thrawn series is awesome and a great read... but, the problem I have with that is the Luke, Leigh, Han characters are firmly ensconced in Ford, Hammil, and Fisher and they're a little bit past their ability to really pull off the "hey, I'm like a year or so older than RotJ". I don't think SW is in the same place as Star Trek in terms of being able to do a "reboot" of sorts or work like Batman where the lead character could be played by anyone.
However... in the "future" timeline that was written about in great detail, there's lot of potential to create an original series around new characters. As beloved as the Skywalkers are, they've had their lime light and destiny and the SW universe is far more than just that important family.
In terms of quality, I've been rather impressed with the "Clone Wars" animated series. Watching that has really stilled more excitement in Star Wars for me. It almost makes me think episode I-III weren't that bad... until I watch them again.
Of course, Lukas could also go and do series about The Old Republic, but I would hate for that to corrupted the up-coming Bioware Old Republic MMO they're making by writing really bad story-lines that hamstrings that world. I'm playing through Knights of the Old Republic right now and so far that's a pretty good game.
Of course... no matter what, I'll never forgive George for writing the stupid metaclorin or whatever part into the story. *shudder*
"The past was erased, the erasure was forgotten, the lie became truth." ~1984 George Orwell
What? Doesn't "Bobby, milkman to the Emperor's pet cat OF DUNE" count?
Yeah, imagine a combined flashback of Matrix sequels and Star Wars prequels. I shudder at the mere thought.
Me, I have this dark corner in my mind where those things are huddled together being watched by all my childhood heros. One step out of line, and BAM, they'll open a can of whoopass on those things that should never have been.
I remember them. But I control the pain and fear, not the other way round.
If they did a 3 film set about the Timothy Zahn stuff - they really wouldn't have to change much either, and ... acutally really _shouldn't_ change much - then you'd get something really cool. Thrawn was a brilliant character - a very plausible 'bad guy', and the rest of the storyline fit really quite well indeed.
:)
Actually, yeah. I think I'll go re-read those
coming from 40-somethings whose prepubescent selves likely giggled with glee when a bunch of teddy bears with spears and slingshots defeated an Imperial garrison.
The reason why todays 12 year olds dont like episode IV as much as the new ones is the original trilogy for the most part wasnt made for 12 year olds.
It wasnt originally marketed to 12 years olds, they didnt even have the action figures ready for the first film. It showed the grandpa figure getting killed in front of the
audience.
It had good actors (Alec Guinness and Christopher Lee) and tight well written script.
We didnt like it because it was a kiddy film we liked it because it was a good film.
We want some drama and action. It's a simple formula really. We don't need "comic relief" and especially not in a TV series.
But there is another thing wrong with the prequels and this series as well. Unless nearly all characters are completely new, we know who will live and who will die -- it's worse than the guys named "smith and jones" wearing red shirts on Star Trek. We KNOW the characters will live and in what state they will be in by the time Episode 4 comes around. (I think the family guy star wars spoof said it plainly and accurately when it was said "we have most of the major characters in this story on this ship. I'm pretty sure we'll all make it through just fine" or something like that.) Not knowing what will happen next is an important factor in a good story.
Will Darth Vader die? Nope! Will he turn away from the dark side? Nope! (Might be tempted here and there I presume.) Will he remember that he built C3PO?
Now here's a question -- will characters from "The Force Unleashed" be in this series??? Will there be aspects of X-Wing vs. Tie Fighter and related games in this series? I seriously hope so -- those were great games with great stories.
I think right up until Enterprise Star Trek was doing a pretty decent job of keeping things fresh. Actually, hell, even with Enterprise they were doing a decent job:
There's still tons of stuff they could do and do well:
Sadly, the mishandling of Enterprise really screwed the pooch for future prospects.
The one hope we had - the reboot movie - fucked things up too IMO. They had the chance to undo all of the time paradox, technobabble bullshit and actually make a coherent story. Instead, in the first goddamned movie we already have alternate universe shit going on. (If you can't tell, I hated all of the "Mirror Universe" episodes as well as nearly any episode or arc involving time travel with the exception of that huge-ass temporal cannon spaceship in Voyager.)
If they did Star Trek in the style of the reimagined BSG - where it doesn't have a whole buttload of technobabble, shaky physics, and continuity errors - then that show would be wildly succesful. But instead, just like comic books, we're going to be befuddled with the same messed-up continuity for decades to come.
Random Thoughts From A Diseased Mind (Not For Dummies)
I've always though it strange that Highlander went from 1 to 3,4,5.
It is no longer uncommon to be uncommon.
Or like a mythical fourth Indiana Jones movie... That would be so awesome, seeing Indy one final time, but I guess Harrison Ford is getting a bit old now.
Modding "-1, Troll" is not a proper response if you disagree with me. Try reason.
Its dead, Jim.
Was this the proposed short film in which the defenders carefully constructed powered battle armor with no actual armor? Yeah, that was never made, there's some law of physics that prevents you from being strupider than "The A-Team".
Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
This guy had some good ideas in this essay. You could expand on some of this and have a great story line.
Star Wars veered away from 'dark and nasty' when they shied from the Midiclorian stuff. If Jedi were 'superior' because of an innate biological feature, the struggle became one where both sides were feeding the common people a mass of propaganda, and moral issues would be a mix of gray tones at best. It would still be possible to show one side as having better reasons to justify the propaganda than the other, and even to create audience empathy for the Jedi - after all, even if both sides were manipulating the general populace, only one side ended up blowing up whole planets. Still, the idea of Jedi who don't like to admit it's all about the Midiclorians even to themselves, and who take the 'controlling your emotions' philosophy to dangerous extremes as a result, would be a great basis for dense, nuanced scripts that would give good actors a chance to shine and, it's hoped, be remembered come Emmy time.
Not gonna happen, of course.
Who is John Cabal?
I'm also curious as to why only one sequel was done to Terminator, and "Alien" never really got much of a followup either.
Oh, well, at least they didn't turn Lord of the Rings into a movie series.
"This post contains words, known to the State of California to cause thought. Wash brain thoroughly after reading."
In case you were lucky enough to miss it, the prequels were Lucas's politcal commentary on the war on terror. And his attempt at a dark story - the protagonist killed the younglings, after all. I'm sure it will continue. Maybe someone will watch it and post a review on SLashdot.
Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
It's easy to see why they abandoned that series, though -- it was jinxed. I heard it was supposed to be a trilogy, plus either six or nine subsequent movies, but apparently no one dared attempt a third film after George Lucas was run over by a speeding cheeseburger-mobile in 1979, and Leigh Brackett and Lawrence Kasdan were both killed in a freak Tauntaun accident...
Remember that the whole purpose of the Star Trek "Reboot" was to form a new timeline so they could finally and completely destroy the Trek Canonical that every Trekkie has on the tip of his/her tongue. The new series happens in a completely new universe, starting with Kirk getting his ship (probably), and when the Gorn appears on screen no one can pull out their (ok, "our" - grin) detailed notes on Trek and say there are four too many pimples on his left testicle and that his growl is 1/1000 octave too low.
Using a time warp was a cheap trick, but it was very effective in getting the job done. The Trek universe we grew up watching has been relegated to "parallel universe" status and needs never be referred to again in regards to the new series.
"Lens Flare" Abrams is now free to change the curtains in the Ready Room without invoking a Trekstorm. And pretty much any other damned thing he wants to change.
And that's actually good. If we're going to have a reboot, it needs to bring a fresh perspective. The old Trek universe was collapsing under its own weight.
"This post contains words, known to the State of California to cause thought. Wash brain thoroughly after reading."
No fan will ever forget Jar-Jar, or indeed any mistake Lucas has ever made. Hating Star Wars is now an integral part of liking Star Wars. Fans will never let it go, regardless of the quality of future product. They'll continue to enthusiastically shove C-3PO cereal into their mouths, yowling "this cereal tastes so awful it raped my childhood!" until the goddamn sun goes dark.
Just as there are no movies starring the character of John Rambo after First Blood, or any sequels to Lethal Weapon. Thank goodness they stopped both at one, or you could just tell it would have devolved into some lame cartoon.
Of course some movies I believe were paid for by the government to have a way to torture suspects without leaving a mark, such as "Grease 2: Electric Bugaloo", "Battlefield Earth" and "Freddy Got Fingered". Of course they should be ashamed of themselves, because being forced to watch even one of those movies, much less all three, should be a crime against humanity.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
they could bring jarjar back, I am sure he would kill him with gratuitous amounts of gore quickly.
Ok, now I'm interested.
Brain surgery - it's not rocket science!
Dear George,
Look, I was a huge Star Wars nerd back in the day. I saw the original 'Star Wars', like, 1000 times in the theatre, and about a hojillion times on VHS. I had all the toys - it was easier to count the things I didn't have in the little Star Wars catalog/pamphlet that came with the toys, than count the things I did have. Loved 'Empire', and tried my best to love 'Jedi' even though it had dancing Ewoks in it. Honestly, though, you lost me with Episode 1, and totally killed that Star Wars geek in me with Episodes 2-3.
You won me back (somewhat) with 'The Clone Wars' animated series. I think it's that I don't really mind cheesy dialog when spoken by CGI-animated puppets in a CGI-animated show. (Note the difference between that and Jar Jar.) I really dig this show, and I watch it every week.
But I'm really worried about your plans to do a show about the "Dark Times" between Episodes 3-4. We know how that ends; you end up with Luke, Leia, Han, Chewie, Ben, Darth, and the gang. I don't want to see Luke Skywalker grow up, I don't want to know what it was like when he got his first pimple or kissed his first girl (or Jawa, whatever they do on Tatooine for entertainment.) I don't want to see how they built the first Imperial Star Destroyer, or installed the freaking air conditioning system in the Death Star.
If you must do something in the Star Wars universe, please please please give us a new story. What happens after the Empire crumbles, who takes charge then, how does the new Jedi order come about? There's a whole Expanded Universe Storyline you can play with there. And we don't know how any of it ends.
Sincerely,
a worried fan (reformed)
Oblig. XKCD reference: http://xkcd.com/566/
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You'd have plenty of framework to make a political commentary on the war on terror.
Please no more political commentary on the "war on terror" from Hollywood. Pretty please.
Because most "adult" Star Wars fans are really still thirteen year old boys at heart and want to see Darth Vader mowing people down with his lightsaber non-stop because that would be soooo cooool.
Either that or they're still laboring under the illusion that somehow risky, thoughtful, intelligent sci-fi is going to bleed from the Star Wars stone, which will never happen.
"It's a much darker, much more character-based series, much more adult, and we're hoping that it will go on for up to 400 episodes," he said.
Is it just me, or does every new dark scifi show just look like another Battlestar Galactica ripoff? I (and I realize I'm in the minority) was extremely disappointed with Stargate Universe when it was obvious trying to just redo BSG. I got enough of that perpetually poorly lit episode of Jerry Springer after the first hour.
*Please* scifi writers, go back to the humorous fun of Firefly and original Stargate SG-1. Stop with the dark stuff. Star Trek Enterprise flopped amazingly fast because it was trying to be dark. I thought after seeing an amazing title like Star Trek go down so fast, people would get the hint that dark scifi isn't good. Sure, BSG was successful. Do you know why I watched it? It was because it was the only thing around. Dark scifi is like the lone ugly hooker across the street.
You don't need midiclorians for that. It was shown in the original movies that strength with the Force was inherited (which made it odd that the Jedi had to be celibate in the prequels), so they were already a hereditary oligarchy. Vader was responsible for hunting down anyone with Force sensitivity; it wasn't like you could just get anyone off the street and train them to be a Jedi, you needed an innate ability.
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Well... we'd get some decent dialogue at least. Wouldn't say everything Joss does is perfect though, and he's really bad at dealing with studio interference.
Holocaust denial (and by extension by the parent post - Jar-Jar denial*) is a crime in some countries.
*Actually, just comparing the holocaust to a imaginary comedy relief CG character might get you into trouble because of the "gross minimisation... of genocide or crimes against humanity".
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
The Zahn novels are far too long to work as movies, unfortunately. Each one could possibly work as a season of a TV show, but, really, why bother? They're good as movies, do something else. I recall reading a few years back that Lucas had bought the rights to the Thrawn character, but never did anything with them, which is a shame. Introducing Thrawn in the prequel TV series could be good.
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I first saw Episode 4 in the local theatre when it came out. I was about 18 at the time. I loved it, up until then SF had had relatively few good films, and special effects were generally lacking in quality.
I liked the second film a lot as well. The third film had the ewoks in it, and it was the beginning of the downfall. George lost his way there.
The 3 prequel films were horrid abortions. The only thing I could think when I watched them was that Lucas probably secured the manufacturing for the toys first, then built a film around it, ignoring all those old tropes like good characterisation, plot, and above all hiring actors that can, you know, actually act. The kid who played Anakin was positively painful to watch, and only a complete fucking idiot would ever have hired him for a part as a wall ornament, let alone a key role. I have to assume George thought it would help with merchandising to have him as Anakin. The prequels are, and will always remain to me, attempts to make money by throwing together action sequences intended to sell toys and other merchandise, not serious attempts to make a movie.
I think if they try to make a "dark" Star Wars spinoff (in otherwords, a "Battlestar-Galactica-was-successful-so-maybe-copying-it-will-make-us-more-bucks" approach), the only way it will be successful is if George Lucas has nothing to do with it beyond giving permission to make it. He just doesn't get what attracts people to the original movies at all. If he is making it, it will suck, period.
Now of course, the above hollywood unoriginal approach to copying a previous success because they don't know what made it good, hasn't worked for Stargate:Universe as far as I can tell. The show is painfully bad - and NONE of the characters are likeable. As a result, I - as a long time Stargate fan - could care less if any of the whiney self-centred SG:U assholes dies. I stopped watching after 4 shows that were predictable and unenjoyable.
I doubt a gritty Star Wars will work well either, because it takes a special touch to make it work, and I doubt Lucas Arts and Lucas himself, has that touch.
"The first time I got drunk, I got married. The second time I bought a chimpanzee, after that I stayed sober" Arian Seid
Talk to a 12 year old now and they love pod races.
Hell, I was in my late 30s and the pod race was the only thing I liked about TPM. If I can't have a rational story or plot, at least go to the backup plan of eye candy. :-)
Have a 30 year old watch Star Wars for the first time and, on the few times I've been able to find someone who has never seen it, gotten the same 'meh' response I had to the Phantom Menace.
Not sure that's universally true. I like a lot of SF movies that were before my time- Forbidden Planet, Colussus: The Forbin Project, 2001, etc. Heck, I like a lot of films of all types that predate me by decades. I would think that an intelligent, young SF fan today could at least see that Lucas accomplished what he set out to do with the original Star Wars. And if you look back it seems plenty of adults at the time enjoyed the film. I know my parents and other older family members did. So did a couple of my teachers.
For all those "stop raping my childhood"... it's not your childhood.
Agree 100% here. I don't give a gant's fart what they reboot, and sometimes the reboots are actually good.
Your childhood is gone, past, finished... you are an adult now and you can't go back.
OK, OK! No need to bum us all out. ;-)
Darths and droids has succesfully made me overcome my star wars traumas and even feel happy with jar jar binks and anakin; start at the beginning here: http://www.darthsanddroids.net/episodes/0001.html Warning: after this you will never be able to see star wars in the same way again;)
It's the same way they only ever made two Indiana Jones movies - Raiders and Last Crusade. It's weird because you'd think if they made two great movies that were a box office hit, they'd definitely go for at least a trilogy, if not try and squeeze four out of it. But nope, definitely only ever two made. Fact.
Good things
Jar jar creating character conflict as occurred in the first three films (eg. irritated the other wise cipher like Gui kan (sp) "NO!".
Palpatine (well written and well acted)
bad things
mitochlorians
jedi fighting for hours without any talking at all against pretty backdrops.
running out of time to do a decent corruption of Anakin and having him improbably able to kill helpless small children way too soon to make sense.
assuming a child killer *could* be the ultimate hero of the series (sorry, but it changes the darth vader of the original 3 considerably).
Utter lack of character conflict (except Jar Jar).
Too many "just so" scenes to list.
Some of the worst acting I've ever seen from a lot of really fine actors (which tells you the problem was Lucas, not the actors).
She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
Sorry for the offtopic message, but Lego Universe is going into Beta, which your kids may enjoy.
http://www.neoseeker.com/news/13104-lego-universe-beta-sign-ups-now-open/
I love how a loved old property from our childhood (Star Wars) is just a pretty facade onto a loved new property from our kids' childhoods (the Lego games).
The ______ Agenda
In that article, I couldn't find any information on what network it will be on in the US. Is it going to be syndicated?
And its not going to be out till 2011 or 2012, so why are we talking about it before it's been cast?
Simple.
On one side you have "fun for all" and on the other "appropriate for adults".
Which translates to "Family/Kid friendly" and "Sex and Violence". Because if it is "appropriate for adults" it is implied that it is inappropriate for children.
And since you can't have sex on TV in the USA (real sex - not shows like "Sex and the City" that TALK about the sex but are actually about shopping) - all you are left with is violence and its consequences (How many cop/crime shows are currently airing?).
Why such a limited choice? Because the LoCoDe has no intellect nor does it appreciate culture. It lives a bit to the left of the top of the national IQ bell curve.
But it watches the commercials and listens to their advice. And it LOOOOOVES the shiny! GOD DOES IT LOVE THE SHINY!
So they make the shiny with sugar for the kids/family pack, and with spice for the adults.
And the LoCoDe lives happily ever after.
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
The sad thing is is that it shouldn't be too hard for a paid staff of writers to maintain continuity. There's no excuse in this day and age.
Battlestar Galatica, for instance, had a series bible for all writers to refer to. It had everything from detailed backgrounds on the characters to hard facts.
So let's take a standard Star Trek fact - the only appropriate matter/antimatter intermix ratio is 1:1. Yet I recall seeing in a few episodes here and there that different intermix ratios were used. As I understand it, this wouldn't work at all.
They need to think a little more long-term when they put a fact onscreen. If they say that the trip from Point A to Point B is three weeks at Warp 9, then it should be a mathematically correct length of time for Warp 6. But I'm sure lots of mistakes like this were made.
I do hope that if a new series comes out they give it the proper treatment. Hammer out all of these important facts in pre-production. If there's a continuity error on-screen, the Trekkies will spot it.
Random Thoughts From A Diseased Mind (Not For Dummies)
Ok, I take issue with this. What's wrong with Temple of Doom?
Can I get a show of hands?
How many of you believe that spacefaring races that travel among the stars will still have princesses?
The same number of hand go up that think that in the 21st century we'd still have kings, queens, princesses, sultans, and warlords.
The same number of hands that didn't find the feudal society Frank Herbert presented in the Dune series jarring but oddly fitting...
There has always been an elite in societies and there will likely always be elites in society. They may not call them King or Queen but in the end your head may roll if you piss them off ;)
-=[ Who Is John Galt? ]=-
I wonder if Lucas is going to do what's been happening to most other movie series (James Bond, Batman, Spider Man, Star Trek, etc) and do a ground up restart on the series. Take it back to a darker, rougher and more realistic level...
I think there is about a 0% chance of that ever happening. Which is too bad. Personally, I'd like to see it, although I'd like to see it done by someone who isn't George Lucas.
"You cannot simultaneously prevent and prepare for war." -- Albert Einstein
NO. JUST. NO.
Half of the problem with Ep1 was Lucas's infantile far-left obsession with the American politics of the day. ("Nute Gunray" as a bad guy? Good God that was LAME!) Watching it now just makes the "political commentary" look dated and silly.
There have been PLENTY of films that have made "political commentary" on the WOT. ALL of them, save Avatar, have been complete and utter FLOPS.
Why? Because Americans of the political center-left, center, center-right and right persuasions DO NOT want to watch a movie where the far-left preaches to us about how horrible America is and how stupid/greedy/racist/bigoted/homophobic/ugly/bad hair-ed/smelly and generally bad all Americans are. (except the "enlightened" far leftists, of course)
The only reason Avatar is getting away with it is because it's such a special-effects extravaganza that people are able to overlook it's inherently stupid storyline. (That, and apparently WAY more Americans are into Furry Porn than anyone guessed.)
If Lucas tries to pull this with the Star Wars series, it will end BEFORE the first season is done because NOBODY but the far-left Star Wars fans will watch it. Sorry, but that's not a large enough base to support a Star Wars sized series.
Nothing against Far-Lefties. They are entitled to their opinions just like the rest of us. It's just that pretty much nobody else wants to watch those opinions squeezed out like shit-icing all over a perfectly good franchise.
Keep the politics of the day OUT of Star Wars. It has it's own politics to deal with, no need to layer over our own (of ANY persuasion) on top.
Official Heretic from the "Church of Global Warming". Proven right thanks to whistle blowers. AGW = Flat Earth Theory
The most well done sci-fi drama in recent years (arguably the best drama of last few decades) is Battlestar Galactica. BSG got it right becuase they focused on the character development, writing and realism (accuracy is probably a better term) rather than focusing on the amount of sci-fi content and adding the rest later on. Viewers who would cringe to watch anything science fiction related were quickly absorbed into the show in the same way non-sci-fi readers become absorbed in Orson Scott Card's 'Ender's Game' series -- becuase both creations are GOOD, WELL WRITTEN, WELL EXECUTED DRAMA'S in a science fiction setting. You could forget about the cylons and the prophecies and all the rest because the drama was excellent and not dependant on any special effects or sci-fi knowledge.
If a Star Wars spinoff were to have Larson and Moore (BSG writers) and a few of the associate producers from BSG as well, I could see it doing very well. Of course, all the good writing/production in the world can't overcome bad acting and vice versa, and while many of the actors/actresses in BSG were limited in depth, they were so overshadowed by those like Olmos and McDonnel that it didn't matter much.
What I see happening instead is a show similar in feel to Stargate Universe, which is a decent show, but feels as if it's been edited for TV and toned down so network TV viewers can feel good watching it. Which would be very very sad.
He should have a jedi that uses the force to time travel, possibly in some sort of box that's larger on the inside than on the outside, and have them fight monsters that look like salt and pepper shakers.
because there really is no story left to tell after the destruction of the second Death Star and the death of the Emperor
You've obviously never read some of the expanded universe novels spanning the period after episode VI. Timothy Zahn and others managed to craft some really good stories in the post Episode VI universe.
~Syberz
>But now, almost thirty years older, I still like the first film the best.
Star Wars had a farm boy, a princess, a wizard, a pirate and comic relief. What is not to like? That is Classic Moving Making and story telling!
The 2nd film explored the characters and made the characters make tough decisions - Should Luke go try to rescue his friends or let them die when letting them die is the smarter move...
The 3rd film is where Lucas started going wrong - trying to appeal to 5 year olds and boost the merchandising aspect of the movies instead of telling a story and letting the merchandising take care of itself.
It has been all downhill since then and as long as Lucas equates TOYS = $$$$, his stuff will always suck.
Stop being so goddamn conceited and think that you as a kid were the only thing that mattered. ADULTS watched the original movies AND enjoyed them. It was NOT a made for kid movie even if you saw it at matinee with other 5yr olds.
Really, your kind is responsible that animation == kids in the west. Hell, return of the jedi was PG-13.
Stop it with this dumb idea that Star Wars was this big hit for kids only.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
*waves hand*
These are not the prequels you are looking for.
Move along.
HA! I just wasted some of your bandwidth with a frivolous sig!
Quick show of hands, who wants the millenium falcon and who the silver thingy from the prequels? What is its name again? Oh you don't know? My point exactly.
The original movies were a less clean then the prequels. Obi-wan is not the perfect jedi. Solo is a smuggler. Skywalker just a farm boy (and in a new hope he ain't the destined one the way his father is made out to be) and the princess has lost everything.
Compare this with the prequels which are practically a period piece with all the nobility running around.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
The truly sad thing is that film/television makers can't just say, "Hey, we'd like to take everything in a little different direction that doesn't necessarily jive with the past," because people will act like someone shit in their Cheerios. Instead they have to add time line altering events to new movies for the purpose of getting around that. Not that I didn't like the movie, but people really do get a little overly wrapped up into franchise canon when it comes to Star Wars, Star Trek, etc.
You are EXACTLY what is wrong with the prequels. To much. Star Wars was Star Wars precisely because it wasn't over the top comic book stuff. Obi-wan never jumped all over the place, the fight was between minds, not bodies. Yoda was not great because he bounced of walls but because he had his emotions under control. It is REAL samurai vs the kind of stuff you get in anime. Control vs Flashy effects.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
My kingdom for modpoints!
You are not alone. The Zahn trilogy felt completely contrived. Thrawn was just way over the top and the anti-force monkeys were just too convenient.
Hecubas
I sure I watched star wars when I was a kid, but it did not make such a big impression on me. Sure it was cool, but it was not a life changing event, as it was for my husband.
Than I married a geek and started watching them again( and again, and again...). An even without the "stop raping my childhood" feeling, I can say the originals are much, much better than the prequels. Why?
(1) The originals are indeed darker, like everything else that was done in a time when we did not use to protect children from every single fact of life.
(2) The romance,... I will take Han over Anakin any time. The stupid love story combined with incredibly bad acting is too central tho the prequel's story, and it turns me off completely. Han and Leia have more of a sexual tension that works a lot better, plus, it is funnier.
(3) Abuse of CGIs. By all means, use it, but please, use it when you need it, not just because it is there. All in all, I think the lack of resources in the first movies lead to more creativity in general.
(4) Han shot first.
And as for everything else (cartoons, xmas specials, etc...), running the risk of joining the trenches : - George, please STOP it already! Haven't you have enough money? Can't you do anything else with your life? Don't you have any new ideas? Stoooooooooooop!
I always assumed that Jedi being celibate was just the stupidity of the Jedi Council and the rather wrongheaded philosophy that controlling your emotions means severing every emotional attachment (which might have been wise, considering Anakin's revenge-kill because of his mother...) In the EU this is more or less ignored, and random Force-sensitive kids are generally the children of some great Jedi who had a fling on a backwater planet.
Yet Another Tech Blog
(but so much more, including game and movie reviews)
http://yanteb.peasantoid.org
spreading out and being racist (ok, species-ist)
Actually, that's a real word.
Property is theft.
I didn't realize Lucas was so Prophetic. Which he would have to be to support your theory as tPM came out in 1999 before Bush was even the Republican nominee for President. ATotK was in 2002 meaning it was mostly filmed prior to 9/11 and the start of the War on Terror. RotS is the one that was made mostly during the early stages of the war, and could thus be seen as making commentary on it.
I'm too lazy to compose a creative sig.
but people really do get a little overly wrapped up
-1 severe understatement. :)
"This post contains words, known to the State of California to cause thought. Wash brain thoroughly after reading."
You do realize that Jar Jar is the most popular Star Wars character with kids right? Us arrogant adults assumed that Lucas was making the prequels for us but he didn't. It was made for kids of this generation and to them Jar Jar was pretty funny. I can't even get my nephew to sit through the original trilogy. All he ever wants to watch of Star Wars is the Phantom Menace.
I was old enough to be annoyed at little kids laughing at the ewoks.
On the other hand, I'm going to defend the ewoks... The main thing about the ewoks is that they are small, primitive and yet, take on the empire and win. And yes, they look like teddy bears, but they're quite badass (like they're going to eat everyone at the start).
Jar-Jar, on the other hand, was just annoying.
In terms of quality, I've been rather impressed with the "Clone Wars" animated series. Watching that has really stilled more excitement in Star Wars for me. It almost makes me think episode I-III weren't that bad... until I watch them again.
Same here. A couple of months ago, I decided to watch an episode, not expecting much. I was very pleasantly surprised - it was quite good! There are still a couple of annoying things, like occasionally re-using the "I have a bad feeling about this" line, but nothing major. Anakin and even Jar-jar are a lot less annoying, too.
... there really is no story left to tell after the destruction of the second Death Star and the death of the Emperor. At least, not a particularly relevant story. I really hope he doesn't ever head down that road.
Yup. It'd be as pointless as season 5 of Babylon 5 turned out to be. Pity the studio didn't give JMS a guarantee that there'd be five seasons earlier, the shadow war could have been fleshed out better in season 4 and not rushed, and the Earth civil war could have filled season 5. Instead we had season 5 filled with filler material about some silly telepath war that I personally didn't give a toss about, and some faceless motive-less baddies called 'raiders.' When a story's done, it's best to leave it.
Drill baby drill - on Mars
there really is no story left to tell after the destruction of the second Death Star and the death of the Emperor. I always thought he was setting us up for Luke to follow in his father's footsteps, and Leia to be trained by Yoda to become the last Jedi and default Luke. Remember when Yoda said "there is another"? He could only be referring to Leia.
I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
I was just trying to be kind. ;)
Why not! Every other story in Hollywood gets remade eventually anyway. Some good (Battlestar Galactica, Star Trek), Some not so well (Psycho, Godzilla, Planet of the Apes...the list goes on). What will happen to the franchise when some young rebel takes the Star Wars story and tells it in their own style? I mean, aside from the massive merchandising tribute that would still need to be paid to Lucas, of course. What if JJ Abrams took on 'Empire'? Not much of a Michael Bay fan, but do think the battle for Endor in ROTJ might be scrapped in favor of the original battle for Kashyyyk with him at the controls? It could happen...
I love how a loved old property from our childhood (Star Wars) is just a pretty facade onto a loved new property from our kids' childhoods (the Lego games).
Pfft... *Lego* was the loved old property from *my* childhood.
"Slashdot - News and Chat Sites Deviant". (Click "homepage" link above for details).
Honestly, when it was all said and done, I'm a bit skeptical that BSG really did have a series bible.
Put a talented writer like Joss Whedon...
Haha.
HAHHAHAHahaa.
AAAAHAHAHahAHAHHAaha!
Yep - the prequel trilogy was always intended to be a story of a republic falling due to a (litererally) manufactured war, though it's hard to be sure from the nonsensical plotline of I in this area. Lucas did his best to make III a contemporary political commentary - it's hard to say whether that made it any worse, as I'm not sure how it could be any worse.
Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
Nope, it exists.
I assume after all things Galactica are said and done it will be released in printed form to much fanfare. For now they can't because it still holds a lot of plot points that they can still use in future stories.
Random Thoughts From A Diseased Mind (Not For Dummies)
The milking of the cash cow started 2 seconds after New Hope hit theaters. Empire and Jedi were merely grabs for cash, although maybe not quite as blatant as ep. 1-3. Lucas is the Wachowski Brothers of the seventies, except he may have actually written the original movie.
Shift happens. Fire it up.
You do realize that 9 movies were planned from day 1? Even the first Star Wars starts with "Episode IV" right there in the opening titles (no, I dont mean in the RE-MADE version, but even in the ORIGINAL first release!)
Actually, no. When Star Wars hit the big screen in 1977, the title sequence just said "Star Wars". There was no "Episode IV". There was no "A New Hope". All of that was added when it was re-released in 1981 (after Empire Strikes Back).
"You cannot simultaneously prevent and prepare for war." -- Albert Einstein
I've heard that George Lucas made some big-budget fanfiction, though. Any idea how that turned out?
"They redundantly repeated themselves over and over again incessantly without end ad infinitum" -- ibid.
Honestly, when it was all said and done, I'm a bit skeptical that BSG really did have a series bible.
Sure it did. It was the _story_ they were making up on the fly, not "facts" like character backgrounds and how fast a ship was.
if you haven't seen the 7-part, 1+-hour-long review of the Phantom Menace on youtube, go now and find it
As a public service, here's the link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxKtZmQgxrI&feature=PlayList&p=1C22FB1EC9D3C45E&index=0&playnext=1
I can recommend it. You'll find the reviewer has more character than you can find in TPM, more comic relief than Jar-Jar, and tells a side-story with a more coherent plot than any of the prequels.
Plus, he has some well-articulated and well-argued criticisms of the film.
(Now someone needs to review my meta-review, just for the recursive fun)
Oh gosh, THANK you. Honestly I really did think I was alone in this but what you say was just how I felt, Thrawn was contrived and the whole anti-force thing just felt really way to "oh, how convenient".