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Ultrasound As a Male Contraceptive
TeslaBoy writes "The BBC has an article about using ultrasound aimed at the testicles as a reversible male contraceptive. This can last for six months. With a grant of $100,000 from the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation, researchers at the University of North Carolina will push ahead with more clinical trials, fine tuning, and safety tests."
Don't let Microsoft point ultrasonic emitters at your nuts.
>> ultrasound aimed at the testicles
That just sounds nuts!
I hope it's more effective than your first post attempts or somebody will be calling you Daddy soon ;)
I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
You are on /. , I don't think anyone of us has to worry about birth control. On the other hand, Microsoft having access to people's nuts... That could be worrying.
Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
Just want to say, NOT HAPPENING. I'm happy using abstinence as a contraceptive. 100% effective. (:
I agree, keeping it in your pants sounds a lot easier than someone pointing something at your boys and saying "this might tingle a little..."
Jesus fucking Christ, why didn't I HEAR about this earlier?
You can't handle the truth.
rofl
It is definitely more effective. ;)
"There is a way that seems right to a man, but its end is the way of death." Proverbs 16:25 (NKJV)
ZAP! . . . you're it!
Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
This can last for six months.
There are a number of areas in my life where YMMV is fine, and I'll take the risk, but I don't think contraception will be one of them.
So was I the only one who crossed their legs while reading the story?
If this is cheap and effective, it sounds like a good decision. If you're in a monogamous relationship, say bye-bye to condoms! You also don't have to subject your female partner to a birth control regimen, which throws her hormones out of whack and can have all kinds of terrible side effects like migraines, random menstrual flow, etc.
Raters gon' rate.
just get married instead?
If I have seen further it is by stealing the Intellectual Property of giants.
Gives new meaning to the term "Hum Job."
Howard Roark, Architect
I believe in a Man's right to exist for his own sake.
How exactly is the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation connected to Microsoft? The largest transparently-operated private foundation in the world doesn't have a lot in common with Microsoft Corp. In fact, there's only one thing I can think of that they do have in common.
"Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
With that attitude I don't think you need to worry about having kids.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
The Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation's guiding philosophy is the Limits To Growth as described in the '72 book commissioned by the Club of Rome. The interest in the third world is the reduction in population growth to head off the bloody global competition for resources. Predominately the approach for this has been in trying to raise the conditions of living to first world standards, as population growth in the first world is basically nil or declining. However, the dark side to Limits To Growth (or I guess I should say "darker") is the prediction that this will fail and only a China style One Child Policy and mass sterilization programs will be effective for limiting population growth. As such, seeing that they are funding this kind of research now is a very bad sign.
How we know is more important than what we know.
that can scramble an egg while its still inside its shell... presumably without the use of a needle... I am sorry you want to point an ultrasonic what at my what?!
I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own.
" "this might tingle a little..."
"..but for an extra 100, it will tingle a lot."
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Agreed! No sex for me with my girlfriend unless we're using effective contraception. Which we are, so it's all good.
That works great right up to the point where some girl with a thing for nerds decides to jump you.
Don't laugh, it could happen to you (it's not likely of course, but it is possible).
"Prefiero morir de pie que vivir siempre arrodillado!"
As a result of an earlier Slashdot article discussing the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation's support for eliminating diseases in developing countries, there was a discussion suggesting population control might be a better place to invest.
It looks like the Gates foundation is not ignoring this issue.
-Todd
Omne ignotum pro magnifico.
Bender: What should we point it at first?
Fry: I dunno. Try it on me!
[Zap]
Fry: Ow! My sperm!
Bender: Wow! Neat! Mind if I try that again?
[Zap]
Fry: Huh, didn't hurt that time.
seems like a great way to conduct mass sterilization on populations that are swelling out of control.....
I'm happy using abstinence as a contraceptive.
See, you -say- you're happy, but then you say you're abstaining... which is it?
Eliminating disease is about population control. Wherever there is high mortality rates there is high population growth. It's just human nature: death is all around, make more babies.
How we know is more important than what we know.
But at the same time, as a man who is paranoid about accidentally reproducing, having extra reassurances like this is a nice benefit, to say the least. Women can reassure themselves by going on birth control, but for men, we have the condom, and trusting that she's actually taking whatever BC she says she is.
Has anyone else noticed how the high pitch screech of a wife or girlfriend yelling at you has the same effect?
How are children a selfish act?
Continue the species, taxpayers for social programs, potential to do something great, etc
I hope it's more effective than your first post attempts or somebody will be calling you Daddy soon ;)
If not, he'll be lucky if someone calls him Daddy. Chances are better that he'll be foregoing a large portion of his income for the next 18 years with nothing to show for it.
In fact, there's only one thing I can think of that they do have in common.
Virility-destroying products?
The enemies of Democracy are
Evil intent?
You're mischaracterising nature. More organisms means more intra-specific competition (inter-specific is bothersome too, if you're environmentalist). Free minds and/or those chained by instinct are, by and large, not altruistic.
There are lots of underprivileged/dying people you could help if you wanted to "continue the species", farm "taxpayers for social programs", or help fulfil "potential to do something great".
If you want kids, have kids, but don't deny that it's the supremely selfish act.
Why do you assume that this is the Gates Foundation's "guiding philosophy?"
Is it the mere mention of contraception?
Why do you assume this will somehow be mandatory, or for that matter lead to "fascism?" (Historically, fascists regimes were big of keeping women at home making babies to grow up to be soldiers.)
There's no more selfish act in the world than having your own children.
not when my children are better than you! my 16 month old is already doing calculus. it's in the form of spaghetti, so it takes some interpreting, but it's there.
---
Is this the MPAA? Is this the RIAA? Is this the DMCA? I thought it was the USA!
With this technology, why just limit yourself to Pandora's box?
Why are you letting these clowns ruin our country?
Please tell me how / why / what the difference is (SPL? Hz? Interference pattern?) because on the face of it you're talking about two opposing effects.... ... unless of course it is decreasing male sperm counts correlating with the use of ante-natal ultrasound scans...
thank fuck I'm old enough I only had to (retrospectively) worry about thalidomide and rickets.
http://slashdot.org/~GuyFawkes/journal
Didn't we just see a story about this? Or is Ball Lightning not the same thing?
Oh, yeah, it's not easy to pad these out to 120 characters.
Maybe a strong enough monitor could allow the BSOD to irradiate your nuts
A bunch of dumb people on slashdot making stupid, worn out jokes about them?
Now if I can just get a ringtone for that...
You mean their respecive founders right? Amirite? Do I get a prize?
A loop, by its nature, continues. If that didn't make sense, start reading this sentence again.
If you want kids, have kids, but don't deny that it's the supremely selfish act.
Maybe for you. I can think of nothing more selfish than to deny the awesomeness of my genes to future generations ;)
I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
He's very smart. Genius in fact. You see, much like the "great software" this contraceptive doesn't work either.
I'm not letting them get anywhere near me with those sonic screwdrivers.
Imagine you're Bill Gates, you're the richest guy in the world, yet you still have to sit in traffic. So why not devote the rest of your life to population control?
yes, Bill gates made a donation, clearly that means MS will ahve access.
also, Bill Gate bought a slurpee and 7-11 so now MS is spying on you in all 7-11.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
I carry around a sonic screwdriver and I can assure you it works very effectively as a contraceptive
Do you have a vasectomy? if not your just a lot of bluster.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
I would imagine that people said the same thing about the birth control pill 50 years ago.
yes, they should listen to some boob on the internet who has no idea what there talking about instead if investing money with experts who understand what they are doing.
Just because your on the internet with an opinion doesn't make you an expert.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
oh have a sense of humor.
"There is a way that seems right to a man, but its end is the way of death." Proverbs 16:25 (NKJV)
Why use such a high tech method when a simple hammer can produce the same results?
Got Code?
Psht.
"There is a way that seems right to a man, but its end is the way of death." Proverbs 16:25 (NKJV)
"This Is" disappeared from my post, weird.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
What's scary is it's true. I already know a (hot) woman with a thing for nerds. Granted she has greater restraint than that, but ya know, when I'm hot, I'm hot. ;)
"There is a way that seems right to a man, but its end is the way of death." Proverbs 16:25 (NKJV)
"uh... HELL NO!!!!"
You are not zapping my #@&$ with sperm death ray!
You know, the Woman God raped.
So you accept Jesus as the product of immaculate conception?
Maybe he was just a magical turd like Mr. Hankey.
Wives discovered a long time ago that screaming loudly enough in the vicinity of their husband's testicles somehow "magically" prevented pregnancy. It prevented a lot of other things too, but that's beside the point.
How is that "the" supremely selfish act compared to, say, dumping toxic waste on 3rd world water supplies in order to save a buck? Or buying up a business, raiding the pension fund, and selling off the parts for profit while thousands of people wonder where their job and retirement went? Or abusing your status as a police officer in order to get a sad power kick?
Having a kid basically means devoting very large chunks of your life to someone else. You're giving up 2 years of doing anything, 3 further years of any daytime activities, then 15 years of having control over your own life. And why? So you can create a life that will hopefully go off into the wild and make society a better place.
Some people want to help a million people a little bit. A lot of people want to help one or two people a whole lot. Is it "supremely selfish" because it is something they want to do? Does this now mean that the only selfless acts that matter are the acts of self-flagellation that nobody wants to do? In the kinds of developed countries that post on slashdot, the birthrate generally has fallen below 1 child per 1 person. Clearly the problem can't be overpopulation, at least not here.
Really, the only way raising children could be considered "the supremely selfish act" is if you start from the position that human beings are bad, and more human beings are more bad. We have enough food to feed everybody currently, we're just terrible at distributing it. We have enough water for now. And peak oil is happening one way or another. Arguably, we'll be off of the oil standard faster the more scientists we can raise. And again, if you don't count immigration the population of most developed countries is declining.
The ______ Agenda
That would fall under the purvey of the "safety research" that the Gates are funding. It's not like they're opening clinics in 7-11 just yet.
The ______ Agenda
In the USA many doctors will refuse to perform vasectomies unless you're above a certain age or have at least 2 children. Similar measures are true of tubal ligation surgery for women.
End of lesson. You may press the button.
"If you want kids, have kids, but don't deny that it's the supremely selfish act."
Maybe selfish in the sense that breathing air or drinking water is supremely selfish, but not in the sense that it is morally incorrect.
I say that, because not having children because of your own ideology is just as selfish from the unborn potential child's perspective.
while(1) attack(People.Sandy);
I think South Park was the location of these clinical trials
Read what I mean, not what I wrote.
I had my testicles ultra-sounded for http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varicocele , I got my ex-wife pregnant the next week.
This being /. I'm surprised no one got the "Real Genius" reference :
"Jordan: What happened? How come you're up so late?
Mitch: Well, I just got back from helping Chris and there was a woman in my room.
Jordan: Pardon?
Mitch: A woman. She was an adult.
Jordan: Oh.
Mitch: She wanted...She wanted to...Oh god, how can I say this as not to offend you?
Jordan: Jump you?
Mitch: Yeah. "
jdb2
All stalk and no roots.
WOOSH!
I think the posters point was that there are tons of kids available to be adopted. There is no need to breed your own. All of what you said can be done with an adopted child. You know, the ones that are here already and need help now.
Dr. Who fans will love it. Just tell them it's a sonic screwdriver and they'll line up around the block.
Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
...I might consider it. There's no more selfish act in the world than having your own children.
If only your parents had the same views.
http://michaelsmith.id.au
All of the good that you devote to another human being when you have a child can be done by adopting. There are *so* many children out there, in every country, that need parents. Requiring that your child be a genetic descendant is pure egotism. "Forget that other kid that I could be raising, I want a shiny new one, that looks like me and has my genes".
No, this doesn't come from the position that humans are bad and more are worse. It comes from the position that an adopted child you raise will take after you in the most important ways, you still get all the benefits of parenthood and, as a plus, you're doing good for someone else who otherwise might have had a shitty life. The insistence of people on having their own is pure selfishness.
Free the Quark 3 from asymptotic confinement! Bring your charm! Don't get down! All colours and flavours welcome!
There are lots of underprivileged/dying people you could help if you wanted to "continue the species", farm "taxpayers for social programs", or help fulfil "potential to do something great".
Lemme think... Underprivileged people, often tax-eater ones who can't provide proper education nor suitable environment for their kids... procreating as they wish.
That and the assumption that it's somewhat bad that I have my own, properly cared for, and raised with my own resources.
I didn't know humans were cattle-like and easily interchangeable. It's all about numbers, right?
what, by playing the sound backwards? it sounds like it is temporary, but not reversible!
I do however think it is selfish to have a large number of children. Its bad for them and its bad for our species to overpopulate. I have one child and we would have stopped at two if we had the choice.
http://michaelsmith.id.au
Mary was the one who was immaculately conceived, not Jesus. It's how Jesus wasn't afflicted with original sin, because otherwise Mary would have given it to him with her filthy human vagina.
What man would possibly object to his balls being blasted with ultrasound until they stop working?
They can call it the Nutsonic BallBlaster 2000!
More seriously, since it's effects are temporary but last several months, I imagine there will be any number of cases where a man becomes fertile again sooner than expected and with no warning sign. That could be a problem.
If I was in charge, men would be required to get an ultrasound shot to the nuts in order to receive their welfare check.
No sig for you. YOU GET NO SIG!
Wow my first troll mod! It actually feels pretty good!
I'd like to start by thanking all the little people in my life, you all helped to make this day happen. My principal in high school for showing me how to use the soap in the gym showers, the doctor for my first rectal exam, GNAA for all their great posts and informative commentary. I couldn't have done it with out all your support!
A loop, by its nature, continues. If that didn't make sense, start reading this sentence again.
Anyone remember Therac-25?
The Therac-25 was a radiation therapy machine produced by Atomic Energy of Canada Limited (AECL) after the Therac-6 and Therac-20 units (the earlier units had been produced in partnership with CGR of France). It was involved with at least six accidents between 1985 and 1987, in which patients were given massive overdoses of radiation, approximately 100 times the intended dose.[2] Three of the six patients died as a direct consequence. These accidents highlighted the dangers of software control of safety-critical systems, and they have become a standard case study in health informatics and software engineering.
(more after the link)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Therac-25
Also a sidenote, I see how some people program (which is scary), to have them develop a machine aiming stuff at my balls, I would need to be on ALOT of drugs to agree to that.
We should start a new Slashdot and return control to the geeks. It actually wouldn't be that hard to get some users to
With that attitude I don't think you need to worry about having kids.
Actually, I bet he already has kids!
Having a kid basically means devoting very large chunks of your life to your own sperm. You're giving up 2 years of doing anything, 3 further years of any daytime activities, then 15 years of having control over your own life. And why? So you can send your own genes off into the wild and ensure the continuation and possible dominance of your DNA on the human species.
Yes, curse those "tax-eating" healthy newborns to destitute parents. Clearly they're of worse stock than anything your genes would create, and like runt whelps on a farm they ought to be tossed on the compost to make way for your mighty seed.
Why would I go through unnecessary surgery (which local doctors wouldn't perform anyway, so I haven't spent much time entertaining the idea)?
On a similar note, I consider it fairly inadvisable to become morbidly obese, but I don't have a stomach band because I use my mind to control my eating behaviour.
I say that, because not having children because of your own ideology is just as selfish from the unborn potential child's perspective.
Does not exist, thus has no perspective, except in religious or quasi-religious formulations.
I hope they're not trying to hit a resonance. I figured that, given the length of suspension as a pendulum, mine have a natural frequency somewhat below 1 Hz.
Have gnu, will travel.
My first thought was Big Brother is going to sterilize us all.
I admit that as I came to post this, I noticed that the story was tagged "ringtone" and now Slashdot collectively owes me a new keyboard.
CAn'T CompreHend SARcaSm?
My method is the most efficient. See nickname for details.
The one hummer in life that you DON'T enjoy.
Me, can't have kids, nature, mutation, radiation, you know all that jazz.
Again, how is having children a selfish act? Or the most selfish act?
The supremely selfish act is suicide.
Oh yes -- get ready for the Blue Balls Of Death!!
No stronger aphrodisiac than a pile or rotting corpses, eh?
Don't let Microsoft point ultrasonic emitters at your nuts.
Blue Ball of Death?
Well, maybe the UltraSound PnP, but not the UltraSound MAX!
SPLAT
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAnpoTGzlX4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgdTymCZowU
How politically correct of yours.
Travel around the world and know (for real) the ones you're so eager to automatically call victims.
All of what you said can be done with an adopted child.
Ever known anybody that went through the adoption process? It's not an easy undertaking. I watched someone get denied at the last minute for no reason at all. This was after they went through the rectal exam that is the adoption process, answering all manner of questions ranging from their finances and background to their damn sex life. Yes, the Social Worker actually asked about that, using the excuse of "A satisfied husband won't molest the kids." or some such bullshit.
After all this they finally met the kid and became emotionally attached to it, only to be rejected at the last minute as previously mentioned. This process was emotionally scarring to say the least. It reminded me of the women that I've known whom have miscarried. To get that emotionally invested in something and then to lose it at the last moment.
It's not that easy to adopt a kid in the United States.
There's also the matter that some of us actually have an attachment to our family, history, culture, etc and would like to ensure that it survives for another generation. I don't think that's selfish at all, though some would probably disagree.
I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
Jokes aside this does sound a great alternative to the pill, shot or tube tieing that women have to go through or the needle in the nut and a snip that men have to go through to stop from making the babies.
Ave Molech Setting
Must be a different frequency than is used for imaging/diagnostics. I had an ultrasound done on the right side of my nuts last year and 3 months later my wife was knocked up.
That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard. Biologically speaking, your life has no purpose other than to have children...
Why must people insist on fighting our absolute most basic laws handed to us by our very structure?
I have developed a truly marvelous proof of this comment, which this signature is too narrow to contain.
It's been in the Windows EULA since ME.
from the unborn potential child's perspective.
What about the imaginary unicorn's point of view? Have you considered that?
badvibrations or goodvibrations ?
You never expect irony, do you?
Want to be a professional wrestler? Visit www.iyfwrestling.com
@iyfwrestling
The connection is easy. Computer users in third world countries usually don't buy Windows. It's a clever plot on Bill's part with Melinda's blessing to cut down on the number of non-Windows users.
(and I bet you thought that no one on /. could turn an article on contraception into something anti-Microsoft. Ta-Da!!!)
Cheers,
Dave
P.S. For the humor impaired, just kidding.
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither safety nor liberty.
Ben
It always strikes me as amusing that religious people who ostensibly don't agree with Darwin end up with lots of kids, while the stereotypical secular humanist strongly believes in evolution but refuses to propagate his or her genes. It's an interesting disconnect between ideology and reality, on both sides.
Now I have to wear tinfoil on my cock too.
Well, that is one anecdote. Pregnancies can also be very difficult and end unexpectedly.
We hope your rules and wisdom choke you / Now we are one in everlasting peace
It's not that easy to adopt a kid in the United States.
There's also the matter that some of us actually have an attachment to our family, history, culture, etc and would like to ensure that it survives for another generation. I don't think that's selfish at all, though some would probably disagree.
In other words, "it's easier" and "I think my genes are more important."
You've just spelled out in great detail why procreating is indeed significantly more selfish than adopting.
You are on /. , I don't think anyone of us has to worry about birth control.
Speak for yourself. I've been with my wife for 21+ years. She wasn't sure she wanted kids, so we used birth control for almost 5 years after we were married. She decided she wanted a baby; we stopped using birth control and she was pregnant in 3 weeks. We started using birth control again after the first baby was born, until she decided she wanted another 6 years later. It was kind of late in her cycle, so this time it took 5 weeks. She had a tubal during her cesarean, since she was near 40 and therefore considered herself too old to have any more kids. That was over seven years ago. If it weren't for that, we would *still* be using some other method of birth control, multiple times a week :-). And yes, I know they are both mine. They're *way* too much like me to belong to anyone else.
--Rubinstien
Ow My Balls!
Blue balls of death
how is babby formed?
Ha ha only serious. What ungodly combination of medical treatment, promiscuity, infertility, and serendipity did it take to discover that ultrasound halts impregnation? What kind of sick doctors are these?
Enquiring minds want to know.
Q: What did the comedian say to the crowd?
A: If I knew, this joke would be funny.
1) get a man to care about contraception ...
2)
3) (still waiting for #1)
-Styopa
Well, lets see.
A) Have sex and get a woman pregnant (or get pregnant if you are a woman); possibly get or transfer an STI
or
B) Not have sex and not worry about any of the above
I pick B!
"There is a way that seems right to a man, but its end is the way of death." Proverbs 16:25 (NKJV)
Brings a whole new concept to feeling the good vibes down there.
... just listen to some Britney Spears?
Join the window installer's union, where prosperity is a brick throw away!
...we should secretly add one of these emitters, working at equal wattage. I hypothesize it could cause a massive drop-off in general douchebaggery and fatherless kids over the next 20 years.
What good is a hum job if only mosquitoes can hear it?
If Slashdot were chemistry it would look like this:Cadaverine
Lysenko junk science.
Also balled out for free.
Just want to say, NOT HAPPENING. I'm happy using abstinence as a contraceptive. 100% effective. (:
Why is your mouth above your eyes?
Posts like these remind me that the Internet is a lot like Lake Wobegon.
The funny part of your post is your pretending that the choice is the reason you're stuck with B.
Having kids is selfish? I'm sure your parents felt the same way. How many siblings do you have? Are you the oldest? I'd say there is no more selfish act in the world than to commit suicide, and denying the extention of your bloodline is akin to suicide. Otherwise, we'd end up with family trees with only one trunk and no branches. And forget about the roots of the tree, cause nobody would give a shit about where they came from.
A year too late :(
According to the Christian religion, the most supremely selfish act is suicide. Arrogant too, to assume you have the right to decide when your life ends (because only God is meant to have that power). Compared to dumping toxic waste into a water supply, destroying peoples futures or being on the take, suicide is the worst sin as you can always repent for the others.
This is covered chapter six in my book, why I am an atheist.
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
Now she says it's rape.
She didn't tell me about Joseph either, lying whore.
Yes son, I just called you mother a whore, lazy sod wont even get up for another three days.
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
C) Use a miraculous device called a Condom and enjoy great sex without worrying about anything.
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
What a handy tool for ethnic cleansing. No doubt China will start using it in Tibet in no time !
In fact, there's only one thing I can think of that they do have in common.
Virility-destroying products?
If you call Bill Gates a product. Virility-destroying, I think we can all agree with.
"I don't care about the Constitution!" --Bill O'Reilly, November 17, 2009
Not me. You let them do that, and the next thing you know they will be microwaving them.
...So I just stand here in front of this ray-gun looking thing, right? Actually, you go first.
Behold the power of the corporate media.
..My principal in high school for showing me how to use the soap in the gym showers, the doctor for my first rectal exam..
I'm disturbed that your post was marked informative
Microsoft the clue is in the name :)
And yet in most places with high birth rates, the mortality rates have been enormously reduced with the introduction of modern medicine, sanitation and higiene while the birth rates didn't actually decrease, which is why many poor and middle-wealth countries now have exceptionally high population growth rates - same number of births, lower number of deaths.
In fact, excluding laws to that effect (such as China's One Child Policy) the reduction in birth rates seems to be more correlated with wealth and education than with mortality rates.
There's also the matter that some of us actually have an attachment to our family, history, culture, etc and would like to ensure that it survives for another generation. I don't think that's selfish at all, though some would probably disagree.
How does adopting a child into your family prevent you from propagating your "family, history, culture, etc." for another generation? Does your culture have a genetic component? And if it does, is that really a trait that you want to pass on to future generations -- while I'm sure there are exceptions, I suspect that the vast majority of people here would not consider multigenerational racism a good thing.
not having children because of your own ideology is just as selfish from the unborn potential child's perspective.
Really? Do you keep every woman you see continuously pregnant (or yourself, if you're a woman)? Because if you don't you're killing all the "potential children" that could result from you impregnating every woman in your line of sight. They might not all agree to your proposition, but isn't it at least your moral obligation to attempt to convince them of their duty to remain pregnant at all times, and to endeavor to impregnate them if they agree?
Or if you'd like to actually discuss the situation rationally we could agree that dead/undead/otherwise-not-currently-alive "persons" cannot be granted the same moral considerations as persons that are currently alive; while a potential life might have some moral impact it cannot be considered equivalent to an actual life in any useful system of morality.
http://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/272750-pic-funny-bill-gates-pics-from-1983/#entry585309992 /Ducks
# cat
Damn, my RAM is full of llamas.
It could be as simple as that if mortality rate is high, the only way to give your genes a chance at survival is to have a ton of kids. It could be that when things suck, fucking is one of the only things you can do to have any fun and humans will do it despite the consequences. Could be a combination of things.
Whatever the case, population growth goes down as quality of life goes up. In first world nations population growth is generally under 1%, and sometimes even slightly negative.
This was one of the big things that the malthusian types didn't account for. They assumed that people were like bacteria, in that the more ideal the conditions for reproduction, the more they'd do it. With simple organisms it does work that way. Give them lots of food and space and they'll grow and grow at exponential rates. They thought humans would do the same and thus industrialized nations were so fucked because population would explode and crash.
Well, turns out humans are far more complex and it works the opposite. Improve quality of life, and you see a decrease in reproduction. I mean a normal American household could probably support 20+ kids when you get down to it, and deaths from childbirths is rare due to the medical system we have. There is plenty of food, plenty of space, etc. Nobody says it'd be luxurious living, but we are talking about the ability to have lots of kids and keep them alive. However that's not what people choose to do. They choose to have small families normally, sometimes even no families.
If we want to slow population growth, the answer is to improve standards of living around the world and get cheap, easy contraception available. Give people a good life and the ability to choose, and you'll find they do choose to have less kids.
Kate Bush singing Wuthering Heights with your headphones in your crotch.
Finally had enough. Come see us over at https://soylentnews.org/
they found a use for all those old Gravis soundcards.
Boring as shit?
Initially there is a difference due to the fact that internally, the body needs some time to adjust to the fact that no sperm cells are released anymore. A couple of weeks afterward, everything was back as is was before, minus the fertility.
Bill Gates doesn't buy a slurpee. He buys several slurpee producers, makes smaller slurpees with less flavor and gives them away for free until the majority of competition is gone. Seeing how Bill Gates came to his success, i wouldn't let any product that involved his money get anywhere near my balls.
Or possibly it works the other way? You eliminate the disease and people don't worry about having so many children? How does lowering the population reduce the amount of disease?
Everyone knows the only truly unselfish way to have children is to adopt them from a third world country and then mention that little tidbit in every conversation you have so that you can feel smug and superior to all the little people who reproduce the old fashioned way. I mean, it is all the rage with celebrities, so it must be the right thing to do! The only other option is to not have any kids and you can still feel superior to the breeders by pointing out how selfish they are and that you don't have kids because the world already has too many orphans.
Next up, how eating enough food to stay alive while millions starve around the world makes you a selfish prick.
</sarcasm>
No one cares what your captcha was
Houston TX, USA
I've replied in a different place in this thread as well, but since you ask...
Initially, there was an adjustment period of a couple of weeks where the consistency was different (more watery). This lasted a couple of weeks, and I assume it has to do with the body readjusting for the lack of actual sperm cells. After a month or so (no more than 2 months definitely) everything was back to normal. There were no changes whatsoever to anything except fertility.
A friend of mine had the same treatment done (different hospital) and told me it was just like I said.
The treatment itself is also nothing to be afraid of. Sure the general scrotum area is a bit sensitive the first couple of days, but a week after the surgery everything was OK. The surgery itself lasted about 20 minutes and was completely painless, involving nothing more than local anesthetic.
I'm glad you won't be reproducing. Maybe that silly line of reasoning can finally die with you.
I don't believe in karma, I just call it like I see it.
At which point you should tell the doctor to go fuck himself and find one who respects his patients.
I don't know about you, but I don't want to let anything near MY testicles,
especially cold machinery used to temporarily render my balls useless.
If you asked a doctor to cut off your leg because you had an amputee fetish, should he "go fuck himself" in favour of someone who "respects" your desire for medically unnecessary surgery?
It's a left-handed smilie (:
"There is a way that seems right to a man, but its end is the way of death." Proverbs 16:25 (NKJV)
orly? I've had more than ample opportunity to rectify said situation if I so chose. I haven't, because I'm quite happy where I am right now. (:
"There is a way that seems right to a man, but its end is the way of death." Proverbs 16:25 (NKJV)
Condom is only about 89% effective against pregnancies and STIs (the percentage is much lower if used improperly, and the percentage is based on "ideal" conditions of use).
"There is a way that seems right to a man, but its end is the way of death." Proverbs 16:25 (NKJV)
If you have a doctor who can't differentiate between the ethics of a vasectomy and a voluntary amputation, run for the hills.
That said, ff you're young and you don't have kids, asking you to undergo a psych evaluation before performing a vasectomy is probably the most responsible thing the doc can do.
" "this might tingle a little..."
"..but for an extra 100, it will tingle a lot."
Hey did we meet last Friday night?
Well, on one anyway.
Like anyone can even know that
You lost me when you suggested that a desire to carry on the family line is "multigenerational racism".
I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
They're adding something to it!
Deciding to have a child is supremely selfish. You are not doing it for the child (because there is no child yet) - you are doing it for your own selfish reasons.
Raising a child, however, requires you to be supremely un-selfish.
ha... Plan A!
(coming down, I'll bring ice cream)
-- I was raised on the command line, bitch
How exactly is the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation connected to Microsoft? The largest transparently-operated private foundation in the world doesn't have a lot in common with Microsoft Corp. In fact, there's only one thing I can think of that they do have in common.
All hail the privileged robber baron who now shares a few pennies of his ill gotten gains to promote good publicity. And don't notice what the other hand is doing behind his back. Doesn't anyone read history books any more?
The only thing worse than a Democrat is a Republican.
If you have a doctor who can't differentiate between the ethics of a vasectomy and a voluntary amputation, run for the hills.
They're both medically unnecessary operations to (sorta) irreversibly disable a functioning and healthy part of your body in order to increase your sexual pleasure.
I don't want a doctor who advocates destruction of body parts for reasons other than medical necessity, whether that's leg, foreskin or vas deferens.
Yes she was very lazy. It was one of the many things I disliked about her. She was also very unintelligent and had no education beyond highschool. She did a good job at hiding these flaws at first which is how we got together.
Am I rich? You probably wouldn't consider me rich, but this happened during the dot com boom. She probably expected me to become a multi-billionare.
The other person replying to you wasn't me. She wasn't successful. Sex during ovulation is more likely to not lead to pregnancy. It takes about 10 tries even if timed right. Through a little luck and a lot of arrogance and ignorance of science on her part, nothing happened. She didn't get pregnant, and her repeated attempts failed since she already told me her plan after the first try when she thought it was a done deal.
She feels like the most pathetic person I have ever met, but I suspect that people like her are quite common. You might not believe that guy whose ex stole his tissues from the trash but I don't doubt it for a second. She is no more idiotic or petty than the girlfriend I had. She had a stupid plan to get pregnant and believed it had worked before she had any proof. People like that are incapable of being successful in the real world and attempt to force an attachment to someone much smarter and successful like a parasite. Don't let this happen to you. We were lucky. Now we know how important male contraception is. Push for it. Once it is available use it. Think computer security. Don't trust a girl if you don't have to. If she is on birth control, you should use your own. Decrease the chances of pregnancy even more. At the same time you are preventing her from tricking you into an attachment you might not want right now.
The morally significant difference between what I said and what you're saying at is that I'm not arguing for the "future-like-ours" perspective as would Don Marquis, and as you are implying.
Instead, just like drinking water or breathing air, the decision to have children is morally insignificant, and by action of choosing not to have children with the maxim of abiding by personal ideology is equivalently bad as choosing to have children (insignificantly so).
Nowhere do I say or imply that potential children have equal moral considerations as people, but rather that in either case, the moral considerations are negligible since, in either case, the decision made is selfishly made from a personal ideology and selfishness does not imply morality.
The faceless collective of those harmed by overpopulation elsewhere are not affected by a single child born in an economy that supports it, so I grant "them" the same moral considerations as the unborn child (none, just as that use of "selfish" does not imply morality).
I can go on and say that another significant difference is that you do not have the positive right to sire as many children as possible, but rather the negative right to have children without external influence from peer pressure or others' opinions.
If that's still confusing (I know it's a subtle point), and you are a Kantian like I am, I could go on from another line and point out that if the OP's claim of having children being a selfish act was implying morality instead of just an observation, that it would fail the Formula of Universal Law. Tthe maxim that I pointed out, "not having children because of your own ideology", presents a contradiction, since universalizing that maxim causes the population to shrink on a massive scale which defeats the original ideology. While that might sound like resolution, it would only be so on a small scale, and is not morally correct (though maybe not morally incorrect) given the economic and political implications. It fails some of the same sort of philosophical (not pragmatic) tests that eugenics fails.
while(1) attack(People.Sandy);
One serves a purpose (contraception).
The other induces a disability.
I know you're just being argumentative, but if you change your mind you can still adopt, but we don't have leg-transplants.
Then there's wisdom teeth, nose jobs, liposuction, lasik etc. etc.
I belong to two ethnic groups where culture has a genetic component, Ashkenazic Jew and Prairie Band of Potawatomi Nation, and if I could have kids I would have a child, after all there are only about 33,000 Potawatomi in North America.
Family, history and culture are not racist.
To disagree with someone isn't "being argumentative".
The death of your partner is also an effective contraception, but it's an unnecessary excess; as is a vasectomy. There are many alternatives, some of which have similar failure rates to a vasectomy. What is more, a vasectomy induces the disability of permanently reducing/destroying your ability to ejaculate fertile sperm: you might say, "that's not a disability!" but it's a fairly significant function of the healthy human male, just like, say, walking.
Wisdom teeth? If they're not causing trouble or likely to cause trouble, you're as silly to remove them as you are to choose circumcision. I wouldn't want a dentist who recommended unnecessary removal of anything. Indeed, I have an academically keen dentist who holds a senior position with a regional dental group, and the most important thing he's done to me is make sure I brush my teeth well. The only thing I've had done to my mouth over the decades is one filling.
Nose jobs? If you mean for cosmetic vanity purposes, fortunately the average plastic surgeon isn't involved in primary care, so I'm unlikely to meet one shallow enough to push this.
Liposuction? If you have a psychological disability which makes you incapable of controlling your eating, and this has caused you to become morbidly obese, which in turn has given you other serious health problems, liposuction might be a suitable temporary treatment for the consequences of your addiction.
Lasik? That's directly fixing an obvious optical fault.
Suicide is a selfish act, not because of the religious bits, but because a suicide devastates your friends, coworkers and family.
A medical suicide is one thing, folks know how bad off you are and there'll be shrugs and "At least they aren't in pain anymore" remarks. No, a suicide is terrible to everyone you know and your entire family.
I'm from a very high suicide region of the United States and have known families where suicide was rampant. In my four years of high school I remember 11 suicides in a school with 200 students. 12 year olds killing themselves, mothers and fathers doing it too.
It can be calculated, just like potential energy can be calculated.
I know you were going for funny, but the fact is that there are plenty of men who'd love to have the ability to have some form of contraception that doesn't 1) reduce sensation to the point of meaninglessness and 2) rely on the integrity of women seeking to win the baby lottery.
It isn't the woman who has to risk the next twenty or more years of their financial lives if a pregnancy takes place.
--bornagainpenguin
Have a Virgin Mobile USA smartphone? Give VMRoms.com a try!
Surely you've heard of denial? It's not just a river in Egypt.
Wisdom teeth are frequently pulled because the *might* cause trouble. The risk of complications is minuscule and the risk that they *might* slightly displace other teeth is fairly significant. Sort of like how sperm *might* cause a problem.
You'll run into a urologist looking to perform a vasectomy for the same reason you'll meet a cosmetic surgeon looking to perform a vanity nose job. You sought them out because you think the procedure will make your life better. Ditto for cosmetic liposuction for the slightly overweight.
Like myopia, at a certain point in one's life, a man might consider fertility a fault - a fault for which there are other, if somewhat less convenient solutions - fortunately a simple surgical procedure exists.
Just as it's silly to recommend medical intervention for every minor ailment, it's silly to refuse elective medical treatment for every minor medical convenience.
And suggesting that there is no substantive difference between a vasectomy an elective leg amputation is either being argumentative or being obtuse ... I was giving you the benefit of the doubt.
The Gates are eugenicist - daddy formed planned parenthood - abortion clinics anyone. The gates foundation "donates" lots for "immunizations" and birth control in Africa. Now they want to sterilize your nuts! You really want to have a procedure done that was funded by these people? It's like being jewish and haveing the Nazi's help you with family planning.
The Truth is a Virus!!!
Competition does not exist in a vacuum and does not work without co-operation. The 'competition', 'selfishness' and 'rational self interest' memes are compelling because they are powerful explanations that can be weilded effectively but don't confuse the explanations with the thing itself.
Defining 'having kids' as 'supremely selfish' is a point of view. Stating; "..not altruistic.." is a pre-polarised statement that completely misses that there even is another side to the story and is another point of view. You're welcome to your point of view but please refrain from the twin evils of confusing it with reality and imposing it on others as reality.
I'm not sure which world you live in where $28 billion counts as "a few pennies" of his ~$60 billion fortune (do you give half of your wealth?), but maybe you could enlighten the audience as to exactly what Bill is doing behind the scenes that is so nefarious.
to promote good publicity
I'm sure by "good publicity" you really meant "world healthcare and education", it's really the same thing right?
"Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
See, you -say- you're happy, but then you're not born again in Jesus... which is it?
Snarky comments aside, I don't think sex is the key to happiness. Sure, it's pleasurable, but the idea you can't be happy without it? That's quite a leap. There are many things which can make someone happy in life and many good friendships that someone can have which have nothing to do with sex at all. I know because, well, I've experienced them before.
Everyone (in the US at least) has the constitutional right to pursue happiness as they so choose. You find it hard to believe him, but then do you really know anything about him and what his life is really like?
Maybe you think you do. I, however, just don't buy that.
Oh, I've heard of it and I'm not in it. (:
"There is a way that seems right to a man, but its end is the way of death." Proverbs 16:25 (NKJV)
Actually from personal experience I'd say that sex is the first brick in the road on the way to hell. But then again I am pretty bitter.
I Am My Own Worst Enemy
Comment removed based on user account deletion
What CAN'T the Sonic Screwdriver do?
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Please, where do I sign up to get my nuts zapped with unforeseen and unpredictable results? Sounds completely unappealing. With $100k to play with, looks like the researchers are gonna be balls deep if they don't figure something out.
This signature has The Force
Bill Gates gave us the Blue Screen of Death. If you get this procedure, could you say you've been Blue Balled by Bill Gates?
Microsoft is planning to kill off the Early Adopter Gene that is Apple's entire demographic!!!
An Invisible Entity of Vast Power whose existence must be taken on faith alone: Liberal Media
That's the entire fault with abstinence only arguments... there is only A) or B), without mentioning the C) through Z) which are all means of having safe enjoyable sex.
Don't get me wrong though, B) is cool if that's what you want. Less competition on my end, just don't follow those nutjobs with an agenda for removing options C) through Z).
+1 Disagree
In reality, it's effective against 95-99% of fluid born STI's, it's even highly effective aginst STI's that can be transmitted by skin contact like Herpes, but then again Herpes is the least of your concerns. If you actually read the article you quoted it cut the HIV transmission rate by 85%, this does not mean it's only 89% effective. The WHO found HIV transmission reductions decreased 95% with condom use.
Do not spread FUD to support your bad lifestyle choices, the risk of getting HIV from vaginal intercourse with an infected person in a low income country is 30 out of every 10,000 people, reduce that by 85% and it's 4.5 out of every 10,000, that's infected people, not average people. Compared this to sharing needles (67 out of 10,000 infected sources) and blood transfusions (9,000 out of 10,000 infected sources) and your risk is fairly low even not using a condom.
Personally I'll take the minuscule risk rather then try to deny my bodies natural tendencies, I've got more chances of dying from a freak tractor accident in the city then contracting HIV. It's the practice of abstinence in Africa that resulted in it's extreme HIV infection rates where SE Asia promoted condom use and have not suffered the predicted levels of HIV infections. Abstinence as a method of pregnancy prevention and STI prevention has been proven not to work.
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
Not necessarily.
That is a cultural thing, mostly because of our religion. In several cultures suicide is considered a good death rather then living in shame, in other cultures death is considered a rebirth (Buddhist/hindu). Personally I'm pro-suicide (in terms of a choice), it's the one real choice we have and if you end up living in misery because of how someone else might feel, is that not selfish of everyone else? If we are talking measures of selfishness, keeping someone around who is suffering because of how you might feel is just as selfish as someone ending it except multiplied by every person who feels that way.
You have to ask yourself, why?
People don't just kill themselves for fun. It takes a lot of torment for someone to contemplate suicide (we have a survival instinct this goes against), making suicide illegal or "immoral" (you cant kill yourself because its selfish) doesn't do a damn thing when someone feels that suicide is their only escape. If someone kills themselves or even attempts to, they were well and truly suffering enough to drive them to it, more often then not this is a failing of our society who likes to enforce social values and degrade anyone who doesn't fit in (especially with teen suicides).
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
Why is there a high suicide rate on the Reservation? Well it's ten times higher then the US average there. The reasons are poverty, perceived lack of a future, broken homes, alcoholism, no where to go, violence among the peergroup and gang violence.
I'm not "pro-suicide" because I've seen how it destroys families. You can talk about how it's selfish to "keep someone around who is suffering", but I doubt you've know a friend who killed themselves which then spawns three or five attempts within hours.
Actually, it doesn't take alot of torment to contemplate suicide or to act on it, the American Indian population has been wracked by this for about thirty years, folks just kill themselves for seemingly no reason.
Personal experience, good friend, one evening we are out, he says "I need to stop home have dinner with my mom, come back in a half hour." We drop him off, five minutes late, he is dead. No torment, no illness, seemingly happy, none of the suicide warning signs.
Suicidal tendencies aren't about choice, its a mental illness that needs to be properly treated.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/09/us/09suicide.html
I think the point of "does your culture have a genetic component?" was that any kid can be raised in any cultural setting independent of their genes (Unless we're talking about some genetic predisposition to a disability that prevents one from engaging in some cultural activities, but we're not. That'd be quibbling.). How exactly do your two ethnic groups have a genetic component? An ethnicity is simply a group of people who identify with one another for whatever reason. To an adopted child, the culture they are raised in is just as real and something to identify with as if they were naturally born to the parents who raised them.
After further thought on the matter, I will concede a counterexample. If an adopted child's genetics cause them to be sufficiently physically different to be deemed a visible minority in the culture they are raised in, then there will be separation between the child and the ethnicity. The two won't fully identify with each other. It may not seem like a noble trait of humanity, but we associate more closely with things that are as much alike us as possible, even when the differences are superficial. It's sort of an innate racism.
What a ripoff, at crabrevenge that would cost only £34.99 for the full tingle experience!
--- I am known for the ones who want to find me on the net. Is that a privacy risk or a privilege? One might wonder..
One isn't a Jew without being born to a Jewish woman. Also, tribal membership is dependent on what percentage of their ancestors were tribal members.
If you adopt and the child can't prove tribal ancestry, no tribal acceptance.
How is suicide more selfish than murder?
Homicide can be justifiable.
Someone comes into my home intent on causing harm and I kill them, that is a justifiable homicide.
Suicide is more selfish than that.
What if someone comes into your house and kills you? Explain to me how suicide is more selfish than murder in general, not how suicide is more selfish than one very specific case of homicide.
Which is more selfish, to commit suicide or to kill someone else?
Suicide. If one kills themselves the leave a hole behind which often leads to more self-harm or deaths in their family or peer group.
A murderer has taken a life, may or may not be justifiable, the families of the victim have legal recourse, civil recourse, family of the murderer has the choice to support the murderer or forget them. Society has a chance to punish the murderer. Suicide leaves a hole.
I wasn't thinking of this when I posted earlier, but I can relate to that. I had to prove ancestry to get Metis status. It turns out I'm the last generation eligible for status (unless I had kids with someone who has more recent native ancestry); I am detached from my full-blood native ancestors by six generations.
In practice I hardly identify with this group at all, except in principle to defend the native position whenever I catch someone making unfair and disparaging comments about them. It's interesting that a slight against a group I am only technically a part of evokes such a response, even though the group would probably view me as an outsider. I suppose there really is an intrinsic drive for humans to protect and propagate their own kin. It may be multigenerational racism, but it's natural, so we can hardly allow ourselves to get caught up on that fact.
I fail to understand why this article did not have the usual donotwant tag. =)
Let's put the genes back in Genesis.