The Verizon Wireless HTC Eris 'Silent Call Bug'

Hall writes "In the last few months some users of Verizon Wireless HTC Eris phone models have encountered what's being called the 'silent call bug' with their phones. What has happened since the update to Android 2.1 is that some phones get dead silence (can't hear the person they call nor can the other end hear you). The only solution is to reboot the phone, though the problem will re-appear after some time. VZW tech support for a while was simply swapping out Eris phones in hopes that the replacement didn't have the same issue. Too many were, though, and now some users have been told they're not swapping anymore. A couple of days ago, a user witnessed a car accident and was unable to call 911. Well, at least not until after rebooting the phone."

Comments

A movie comes to mind.

[sethstorm]

What good is a phonecall if you cannot speak?

Re:A movie comes to mind.

[Eternauta3k]

Well, merely making a call can be enough to signal something. For example, a buddy and I want to get on the same bus, I call him when I'm near his stop and he doesn't have to pick up.

Re:A movie comes to mind.

[hedwards]

In this day and age, chances are if you can call 911, even if you don't say anything, that they can use the devices GPS to find you. They do it precisely because they don't have any way of knowing whether or not you're dying in a ditch. That was the primary reason why GPS technology found its way into cell phones well before they gave people access to it.

Re:A movie comes to mind.

[PitaBred]

You're completely mistaken. Cell phones got GPS well after consumer units had appeared, because there were no small GPS chips that would easily be powered by a cell phone battery until relatively recently.

The reason they could find your location before GPS was a thing called triangulation. They could (and still can on phones without GPS) check your signal strength to various towers to figure out where you are because they know the geographic location of all the towers.

Re:A movie comes to mind.

[Anachragnome]

"In this day and age, chances are if you can call 911, even if you don't say anything, that they can use the devices GPS to find you."

Did the 911 call center actually get GPS coordinates though? I'd be interested in knowing how this looked from the their end. Did it look like a hang-up with no GPS data sent? Isn't the GPS data sent over the same data channel?

Re:A movie comes to mind.

[tomhudson]

The Eris has GPS. No triangulation needed.

Re:A movie comes to mind.

[Anonymous Coward]

Kinda off topic but similar to your phone trick - when I was a kid soccer practice would often run late. I would call my mom on the pay phone at school when it was time to pick me up. But since the collect-calling service just replayed a recorded name to the receiver of the call, I would say, "Pickemeupatschool" as my name. My mom would get on the other end, "Will you accept a collect call from, 'Pickmeupatschool'? To accept the charges, press 1 now." Of course, she'd just hang up and come get me, no charges needed.

Re:A movie comes to mind.

[gumbi west]

Let me give you some translations to help unwhoosh you.

I had a Verizon phone with GPS but I could not get the data out, or you could say that I had no access to it.

Also, some cell companies (such as AT&T) use the technology you mention, others do not have the capacity and instead use GPS. They were given the option, and they went various ways. Both have drawbacks: what if GPS doesn't have a signal? OR: What if you can only see one or two towers?

Re:A movie comes to mind.

[icebike]

Depends on the 911 system used. Some small departments don't have the money to upgrade their equipment. Really rural counties out west are simply using telephones with recorders attached.

Re:A movie comes to mind.

[Anonymous Coward]

Collect call from Bob Wehoddababyeetsaboy!

Re:A movie comes to mind.

[mysidia]

Or they ignore it because you don't say anything they think you are one of those persons who has a cell phone in their pocket and are too clueless to learn how to use the "lock keypad" function, just another accidental dial-in.

Re:A movie comes to mind.

[masmullin]

ET [no] phone home.

Re:A movie comes to mind.

[maxwell demon]

The best thing would be to support both. Then whatever service currently gives you location data will be used.

Re:A movie comes to mind.

[mutube]

Did the 911 call center actually get GPS coordinates though? I'd be interested in knowing how this looked from the their end. Did it look like a hang-up with no GPS data sent? Isn't the GPS data sent over the same data channel?

I used to work in an ambulance control in the UK and we received mobile phone location information through the same mechanism that gave lookups from phone numbers to street addresses. At the time I don't think GPS in phones was widely available, instead information was passed using a point, ellipse angle, and radius reflecting 'error' in the calculation, with which you could plot on a map a rough area where the call was coming from. When I left in 2004 they were upgrading to software that would do this plotting on maps automatically (address lookups were already plotted automatically).

The triangulation system provides varying degrees of accuracy depending on whether in built up (many antennae) or rural (fewer, more powerful antennae) areas. Thankfully, that also matches the accuracy usually needed for dispatching emergency help: a traffic accident in a rural area, even if giving a 5 mile radius, can sometimes isolate a single road which combined with local knowledge will pinpoint the likely location. In a city where 5 mile radius would be less useful accuracy was usually down to less than 1 mile. On one occasion it was accurate enough, with prompts from what a caller could hear nearby, to pinpoint someone to a back garden in a suburban estate.

I suspect that if GPS data is fed through to the controls now it will be in the same format, albeit with much lower error rates on the ellipse.

Re:A movie comes to mind.

[flowwolf]

So long as the operator isn't some tool. You can't always rely on the human on the other end to assume danger in the absence of a voice. Consider how many pocket dialed calls any one 911 dispatch station may get in any given period.
At least they're improving the 911 issue. HTC phones can dial it now.

Re:A movie comes to mind.

[gumbi west]

Makes the most sense when you are trying to get a location and the one you picked isn't working, in all other cases, you'd probably rather just pay less for your phone.

But who knows, maybe there are those out there would really want the pants and suspenders approach to location, I wonder if there is a provider who offers both?

Re:A movie comes to mind.

[Z00L00K]

But the phone company doesn't read the GPS - it's not in the phone network data. The GPS is a completely separate unit and is usually offline to save power.

So the phone company still relies on triangulation and estimation of where you are using signal strength and cell data.

Re:A movie comes to mind.

[tomhudson]

The phone company doesn't operate the 911 service - that's a private contractor.

Re:A movie comes to mind.

[Z00L00K]

But the 911 service do get the data from the phone company. Cell Location Service is what the phone company provides using triangulation through cell lobe data and signal strength. It's an estimation of location so the precision may vary depending on terrain.

Re:A movie comes to mind.

[toadlife]

On my old Blackberry Pearl, when you locked the phone there was an option to dial 911 on the lock screen. This made it extremely easy to accidentally dial 911. Thankfully you could put the phone in standby mode instead of locking it.

Re:A movie comes to mind.

[tomhudson]

... and one of the things that they get is the caller number - even from a cell phone or VoIP call. And the operators have to deal with people who are unable to talk, possibly because they're injured. And if you hang up without saying anything, they'll call back, and if you don't answer, the police are sent.

The problem here is that the call never got made - the Eris "silent bug" is worse than making a call and not being able to be heard. If it were only that, 911 would have called back. They didn't. So at that point, everything else is moot - having to reboot is not a "fix".

Re:A movie comes to mind.

[rhook]

Yes they do, the phone reports GPS data to the gpsOne server that the provider operates. This data is mostly used by many applications and the E911 service.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GpsOne

Re:A movie comes to mind.

[rhook]

And one of the things the phone company provides is the gpsOne data, see my above post.

Re:A movie comes to mind.

[hoggoth]

You could have really freaked her out with:

"Collect call from OhGodNoHelpAhItHurtsLordHelpMeMakeItStopHuffHuffHuffUnnngh"

Re:A movie comes to mind.

[MarksManB]

yeah, no. Not every Wireless Phase 2 complaint phone will compute GPS coordinates fast enough for a quick 911 hangup. On silent calls, a "re-transmit" command can be used to see if coords are available. But the point is moot if agency policy, like mine, is to close out cellular 911 hangups or silent calls and to only attempt call backs. Cell phones, being mobile, are infeasible to track down as opposed to landlines. In the event of a traffic accident, most likely unless you are in the middle of nowhere and the person you hit is dead, there will be several other people with cell phones just eager to provide shoddy information about what they witnessed, but unwilling to assist on.

Re:A movie comes to mind.

[bdsesq]

In this day and age, chances are if you can call 911, even if you don't say anything, that they can use the devices GPS to find you. ....

Yes but what if they send the police or a fire engine instead of an ambulance?
Someone could die because the phone didn't work properly.

This needs to be fixed.

Re:A movie comes to mind.

[Atryn]

In this day and age, chances are if you can call 911, even if you don't say anything, that they can use the devices GPS to find you. They do it precisely because they don't have any way of knowing whether or not you're dying in a ditch.

I'm not sure this is accurate, do you have a source? My understanding is that they use location (GPS or triangulation) only when they know the subject matter of the call. I very much doubt they will trace location and dispatch anyone with just dead silence on the line. Do you have any idea how many NON-emergency calls 911 gets???

Re:A movie comes to mind.

[Tintivilus]

The reason they could find your location before GPS was a thing called triangulation. They could (and still can on phones without GPS) check your signal strength to various towers to figure out where you are because they know the geographic location of all the towers.

Your description is correct, but that's not triangulation, it's trilateration. From signal strength one can derive a distance but not a direction. The technique is drawing circles of to see where they meet, rather than drawing lines to see where they cross.

Re:A movie comes to mind.

[Z00L00K]

THAT depends on which phone company and if the phone do support it and a pile of other things. Not all phones enables the GPS and not all phone networks do support it.

Just because a phone do have the gpsOne chipset doesn't mean that it actually will provide a location. It also depends on software in the phone and if there is a GPS lock. It can take a while before a phone do get GPS lock if it hasn't been in touch with the satellites and/or the locating cache isn't up to date. Especially if the caller moves around.

Re:A movie comes to mind.

[zmollusc]

I had a Nokia N95 which auto-keylocked when slid closed. Unfortunately it unlocked if it was jostled more than 1% open and then rang (usually) the last number called/received.
I replaced it with an LG KC910 Renoir which auto-locks after a few seconds of idleness. Unfortunately it unlocks when it gets pressure on part of the touchscreen ( you don't have to press a key sequence or slide the pressure point around, there is no confirmation on a different screen area ) and then it fires up the internets, makes calls, has a whale of a time running up bills, annoying everyone and flattening the battery.

If this lame-design trend continues I will have to leave my future mobile phone at home tethered by a curly charging cable to a special cradle (maybe incorporating a rotary dial).

Re:A movie comes to mind.

[rhook]

The Eris gets an almost instant satellite lock, even if gpsOne is not configured. However, the big providers all have gpsOne since they are required to provide E-911 information. Some of them, such as Verizon block your apps from accessing it though.

Re:A movie comes to mind.

[delinear]

[...] having to reboot is not a "fix".

Clearly you've never done tech support.

Re:A movie comes to mind.

[delinear]

I can't say how this works in the US, but in the UK they have to treat every call as a real emergency, even when it's obviously someone pranking. That means even if some idiot prank caller dials them up and stays on the line for an hour talking gibberish, they have to stay on the line and log everything and treat it as if it were a real emergency. Given they're prepared to take that approach with obviously fake calls, I can't imagine they'd be any less stringent with an ambiguous call where they hear only silence (there are any number of real emergency situations where this might be the norm, someone passed out, phone damaged in an accident, an intruder in your home and you want to alert the authorities without making a sound and alerting the intruder, etc).

Re:A movie comes to mind.

[bernywork]

Your description is correct, but your theory is wrong. It's triangulation as cell towers have multiple antenna / masts. Each side of the base station / cell tower is directional and therefore has a corresponding frequency so that they can re-use frequency more readily within the area of the network. This does make it triangulation, as based upon the frequency which you are using to talk to to the cell tower, that gives you your direction (Roughly). Your signal stregnth then gives you (vague) distance, doing this between more cells gives you your location.

Re:A movie comes to mind.

[realityimpaired]

In Canada, at least, every call gets treated as an emergency. If it's dead air, they try to call back, and if there's no answer when they call back, they send police and ambulance. If it's a cell phone they may not know exactly where it is, but they'll still send a police car to search the area for street-level emergencies. As others have noted, even using triangulation in a city, it narrows it down to a pretty small radius. (note that this may be different in other cities or in more rural areas)

Of course, they can't do that if it's a mobile phone and they didn't get any location information, either from triangulation/e-911 or GPS information.

That being said, it's pretty hard to accidentally dial 911 on a phone. Most accidental dials are gibberish numbers or people on your speed dial. While there's maybe some logic to having 911 on speed dial, the whole point of 911 being such a short number is so you don't need it on speed dial... Besides, in the last 5 years, I've dialled 911 maybe twice? And I'm pretty sure that's above average, too. Even when I was working at a swimming pool and we had 911 emergencies every month, we didn't have it programmed into the speed dial.

Re:A movie comes to mind.

[Agripa]

The GPS is a completely separate unit and is usually offline to save power.

Assisted GPS solves the GPS power problem in cell phones and mobile devices. When a fix is required, the cell tower sends the current GPS state information (almanac, ephemeris, and time) so the that GPS receiver can start hot and begin generating position reports immediately.

Re:A movie comes to mind.

[Agripa]

Also, some cell companies (such as AT&T) use the technology you mention, others do not have the capacity and instead use GPS. They were given the option, and they went various ways. Both have drawbacks: what if GPS doesn't have a signal? OR: What if you can only see one or two towers?

I always saw the early E911 location requirements as a bunch of bureaucratic wishful thinking and I guess a lot of phone companies had the same response since they have been suing the FCC over it. GPS reliability when indoors or under cover is poor enough with even dedicated receivers that I always figured a hybrid system would be necessary if only because phone ergonomics compromise GPS antenna design.

As far as the E911 GPS location requirements, the FCC would have been better off with a real world empirical benchmark. Then they would have discovered what they were asking for did not exist when they could not duplicate it.

Re:A movie comes to mind.

[Agripa]

But who knows, maybe there are those out there would really want the pants and suspenders approach to location, I wonder if there is a provider who offers both?

The GPS (or AGPS in this case) part is pretty cheap or even free to implement since it has other applications paying for it as well. The base station technologies require infrastructure upgrades and have more limited uses.

I have to admit though that I have never considered GPS on PDA or phone to be particularly useful except for E911. The only time I would really need it is when the phone system is down in which case I would not expect it to work anyway. I just carry an old dedicated mapping GPS receiver. Without a touch screen, it even works in cold weather when gloves are worn. :)

Re:A movie comes to mind.

[Agripa]

This does make it triangulation, as based upon the frequency which you are using to talk to to the cell tower, that gives you your direction (Roughly).

Aren't they using beam forming in dense areas now and for more range? That would narrow the sector size down considerably.

Your signal stregnth then gives you (vague) distance,

Really vague. It is one thing for the base station to adjust the mobile transmitter power in a relative way but another to rely on some type of absolute calibration even without path loss variations. 6 db change is a factor of 2 difference in distance so even a minor calibration error would make for poor accuracy except where the cells are small and in that case, lots of towers will be available for TDoA or triangulation anyway.

doing this between more cells gives you your location.

Which is easy in areas where extra cells are available because of subscriber density but that can not be counted outside of that.

Re:A movie comes to mind.

[Red Flayer]

I think it's the network.

My Blackberry Tour has had the same problem.

Re:A movie comes to mind.

[Tacvek]

It can be easier on some phones. I've heard a few unsubstanciated reports of phones that had speed dial 9 default to 911. On most cell phones, a single digit speed dial number can be dialled simply by pressing and holding that digit for long enough.

There is also the 112 GSM standard, which would redirect to 911. Both of those I believe are required to connect even if they are just a prefix to a longer (invalid) number. Of course, with cell phones, the entire number is transmitted at once, so it would be possible to support some numbers that happen to be prefixes of other numbers. [1]

Lastly thanks to the ability to determine if a number is complete or a prefix when dialed on a cell phone, the cellular provider can support emergency numbers from other countries, including those that would not normally be permitted here, since they are valid prefixes of other numbers.

Asides:
[1] The traditional system can also support that, by checking for a long enough pause, but that is considered somewhat unreliable. The pause is actually optional, since a "#" key as part of a DTMF dialing sequence is interpreted as "End of number", allowing the system to immediately dispatch the call, instead of waiting to see if more digits are forthcoming.

Re:A movie comes to mind.

[hierophanta]

the Eris uses a-GPS - check how fast you get a fix when the phone is off the network.

it is also waaaaaay faster to triangulate based on cell towers a couple of miles away
vs.
triangulating based satellites orbiting the earth (yes GPS is a trilateration / triangulation based technology [lets not get into semantics]) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_positioning_system#Basic_concept_of_GPS

Re:A movie comes to mind.

[mysidia]

It's a frequent enough problem that in the US, many 911 systems are answered by an IVR and you have to press 1 or say "EMERGENCY" before you are connected with an operator. Some cell phone manufacturers did something very stupid. They decided to block all DTMF tones after 911 was dialed, which makes it impossible to answer the IVR prompt.

If you can't hear the IVR when calling in, you won't know what to say.

They might respond if they think it's not an emergency, for the purpose of apprehending the person who maliciously prank called an emergency number.

In the US, the police are not obligated to respond to a 911 call at all, even if they think it is a real emergency. That would be up to the policy of the individual police department, their leadership, their schedule, availability, etc

Maybe they think there's a bigger emergency, too hungry and on lunch break, etc.

Police can say 'we knew it was an emergency and this individual was being assaulted by someone who broke into their home, but we were too busy catching people speeding and giving out traffic tickets'

At the end of the day it is up to the individual to protect themselves, and ensure they have a backup plan to find what assistance they can when authorities don't respond, if there is an emergency.

In short: get a fucking gun, or other protections in place, and get properly trained on how to use it effectively and safely, and how to properly secure it and ensure it cannot be stolen.

There is also no right to even police protection. Warren v. District of Columbia. "a government and its agents are under no general duty to provide public services, such as police protection, to any particular individual citizen."

Not to say calling 911 in an emergency isn't a thing to do very quickly. But shall we say... don't just dial 911 and bank 100% on authorities coming promptly, or coming in time, use all reasonably safe means available that would be effective at mitigating a serious emergency, without creating a bigger one.

Oh yeah... and don't expect anyone to come if you give them dead air, without at least some sort of signal besides dialing in

Re:A movie comes to mind.

[Tokerat]

I was under the impression that cell towers where far enough apart that measuring not only signal strength but also phase and timing was used to trilaterate the signal for further accuracy. If we didn't have equipment that could do this, how would laser speed guns work?

...or am I way off?

Re:A movie comes to mind.

[Laurence0]

I have an HTC Desire, which when I first got it had a similar problem - to unlock it, you press the power button on the top then put your finger on the screen and slide downwards, which apparently my trouser pocket is quite capable of doing as well. Then you have the standard call-recent-numbers, or go-on-internet problems. After the second time it happened, I turned on the "draw a shape on this grid" security thing. I've set a pretty simple shape, but it's enough to stop it doing things I don't want it to. I'd quite like to turn off the initial slide as it's redundant now, but I've not got around to looking into whether I can.

Hail Eris

[Anonymous Coward]

Calling a phone Eris is sort of asking for it..

Re:Hail Eris

[ScrewMaster]

Calling a phone Eris is sort of asking for it..

Yeah ... kinda like naming a space telescope after someone whose name rhymes with "trouble".

Re:Hail Eris

[AndrewNeo]

Prepare for trouble! And make it Hubble!

Re:Hail Eris

[mysidia]

Wikipedia:

Eris (Greek , "Strife") is the Greek goddess of strife, her name being translated into Latin as Discordia. Her Greek opposite is Harmonia, whose Latin counterpart is Concordia. Homer[*] equated her with the war-goddess Enyo

[*] Homer the ancient greek poet, not Homer Simpson

Re:Hail Eris

[arazor]

>Homer[*] equated her with the war-goddess Enyo

Doh!

Re:Hail Eris

[insertwackynamehere]

Enyo? The new age singer?

Re:Hail Eris

[initialE]

More closer to home, the mother of all IRC networks is specifically named for the absence of the one named eris. - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EFnet

Re:Hail Eris

[Stradenko]

To protect the world from devastation!

Re:Hail Eris

[FrankieBaby1986]

Is that where Eris/Twitter got its name?

Re:Hail Eris

[sharkey]

Warning: Callers on the ERIS may be closer than you can hear?

Re:Hail Eris

[2obvious4u]

Let me guess... Put into orbit by "Team Rocket"?

We've come a long way

[BitZtream]

Remember back when you had to find a land line to call for help?

Now we're up in arms because a wireless device is not 100% reliable and it became very clear in an emergency situation.

Does the public really expect their cell phones to flawlessly or have I been using smartphones so long that I just accept wireless devices suck still?

Re:We've come a long way

[erroneus]

That's an interesting question, but I will refer you to the laws Federal, State and Local to answer what peoples expectations should be.

In any case, what we should expect, as consumers, for VZW to get serious about issuing fixes to issues they identified long ago. Swapping out phones is not the answer when it is a software problem and even BAD technicians know this much. VZW would rather waste the time and energy of its customers than spend money to fix a problem.

Re:We've come a long way

[tomhudson]

Remember back when you had to find a land line to call for help?

Now we're up in arms because a wireless device is not 100% reliable and it became very clear in an emergency situation.

... and those hard-wired phones would have been just as useless in this case - a car accident.

... and good luck calling 911 from outside your house to report that your house is on fire.

Better to have something that works 99.999% of the time pretty much everywhere, than 99.999999% of the time in only one scenario.

Re:We've come a long way

[Sir_Sri]

Flawless, no. But it's a reasonable expectation that your phone should have a failure rate comparable to other phones on the market. It's also reasonable that if a problem exists that puts the failure rate of your device well outside industry norms (think xbox360) the device will be repaired or fixed both for free and in a reasonable timeframe.

In canada for example we have laws that require cell phones, even ones not attached to a plan, and with no carrier, can connect to 911. It's a nightmare for 911 if they call and cannot give a location, but if I buy a cellphone in canada I can expect that it will connect to 911. I don't know if we have rules about downtime, dropped calls or silent calls, but I'm sure there are large tomes of requirements that all the companies have to comply to for all sorts of stuff. I can expect that those will be followed, or the CRTC/FCC will send in the lawyers.

Cars get recalled for defects/repairs, so do drinking glasses from MacDonalds and children's toys, my cell phone falls somewhere between those points on a spectrum of cost and utility, and yes, your life can depend on it, just because we 'got by' with landline phones doesn't mean they didn't cost lives, there just wasn't anything you could do about it.

I took my battle.net authenticator off my iPhone and got a physical one precisely because as you say, smartphones fail a lot, I've had to reinstall the OS 3 or 4 times so far (iPhone 3g) and it spent 14 hours updating to iOS4. Not exactly my idea of a reliable device. But my GF has a nokia dumbphone, which has never had an OS update, and never needed a reboot, so maybe since my phone cost 10x as much as hers, (+ data plan) I can expect better reliability, and won't be looking to apple to replace my smartphone. People don't buy a Lexus rather than a regular old toyota for the fun of it, premium markets (which I count smart phones as part of) do still have problems, but you're paying for more functionality, not less, and a phone that can't make calls is by definition less functional.

Re:We've come a long way

[lavagolemking]

Too bad we can't find payphones anymore...

Re:We've come a long way

[icebike]

Remember back when you had to find a land line to call for help?

Now we're up in arms because a wireless device is not 100% reliable and it became very clear in an emergency situation.

Does the public really expect their cell phones to flawlessly or have I been using smartphones so long that I just accept wireless devices suck still?

We expect phones to work for their intended purpose.

Being able to make a call and then not hear anything isn't acceptable. Occasionally you can't call due to reception problems, everybody understands that. But being able to complete a call and not hear is clearly a warranty issue.

Re:We've come a long way

[bonch]

Well, yeah. If you pay for a cell phone, you have a reasonable expectation that it's going to work. Your argument is like saying we shouldn't care about leaks in the roofs of our houses because our ancestors used to live outside.

Re:We've come a long way

[MartinSchou]

but you're paying for more functionality, not less, and a phone that can't make calls is by definition less functional.

I hate to tell you this, mate, but a phone that can't make phone calls is, by definition, not a phone.

Re:We've come a long way

[mysidia]

Our ancestors used to live in caves which do not have the issue of leaking roofs :)

Re:We've come a long way

[mysidia]

Better to have something that works 80% of the time pretty much anywhere, than 99.9999% of the time in only one scenario.

Re:We've come a long way

[WillDraven]

You've obviously never spent much time in caves. Generally the rule of thumb for caving is unless you can see the sky from where you are, if it starts raining outside you need to get the hell out, fast. Very quickly the part of the cave you're in can end up FULL of water.

Re:We've come a long way

[Sycraft-fu]

I think part of the problem is too many people view phones as toys first and phones second. People get extremely bitchy if they can't have games and cameras and all that other shit on their phones. The market for "Just a phone" phones has nearly completely disappeared, nobody wants to buy them even if they cost less.

Way too many people I encounter buy phones based on their shiny features, and never consider call quality. Ex-roommate of mine was completely unintelligible on his phone. The thing had a totally crap microphone and looking online, that was a common problem with the phone. He just texted all the time. My though it "Why the fuck would you get it?"

Personally I've become a real fan of my Curve 8330 because of this. It is a smart phone, but the phone features seem to work no matter what and are not interfered with by anything else. Had good call quality and a decent antenna too (as well as being nice and cheap). Not the shiniest toy around, I don't have an ultra high rez touch screen, but I can pick up the phone and make a damn call when I want to.

I'm certainly not opposed to smart phones, obviously I have one, but I think consumers need to spend a little more time looking at the phone side of things and less time worrying about the shiny. If consumers start caring more about the phone, so will the manufacturers.

Re:We've come a long way

[ThrowAwaySociety]

Remember back when you had to physically visit a police station to get help?

Now we're up in arms because an electro-magnetic device device is not 100% reliable and it became very clear in an emergency situation.

Does the public really expect their telephones to flawlessly[sic] or have I been using landlines so long that I just accept electrical devices suck still?

Cell phones are mature technology. They're no longer rocket surgery. We expect consumer wireless phones to offer basic connectivity 99+% of the time, because this is well within the realm of feasibility.

Re:We've come a long way

[mysidia]

I assume our ancestors (the ones that lived) didn't live in caves that had that issue, or they didn't wander deep enough into the cave that it would be an issue.

Re:We've come a long way

[tsotha]

They may not have known it was a software problem, though. Somebody comes in with a phone that doesn't work, you give them another and everything's fine. Sounds like a hardware problem.

Re:We've come a long way

[icebike]

Exactly so.

I happen to know the CEO of a regional carrier.

His opinion was that the load up features on these phones in the hope that people will not notice the horrible call quality and high call failure rate.

On the other hand....
Its still amazing that they work at all when you get right down to it. A largely self managed radio in your hand, serviced by towers handling hundreds of thousands of phones with th vast majority of calls completed successfully.

Re:We've come a long way

[WillDraven]

Naturally. My point (which I'll agree I didn't state very clearly) was simply that caves can often have leaks, in many cases worse than a poorly constructed roof. Of course when your floor is made of stone instead of wood and carpet, a bit of water leaking into your dwelling isn't quite as big of an issue.

What were we talking about again? Oh right.. cell phones...

Re:We've come a long way

[Derosian]

Not everyone has 100 dollars of disposable income they can drop on a low level smart phone.

Re:We've come a long way

[Fumus]

... and those hard-wired phones would have been just as useless in this case - a car accident.

... and good luck calling 911 from outside your house to report that your house is on fire.

I didn't care to look it up, but if it happened on a highway, there are phone booths for emergency calls every kilometre or so.
In case of a fire - that's what neighbours are for. They will call 911 unless they want their house to burn down next.

Re:We've come a long way

[Sycraft-fu]

$30 was the cost, in fact (well $30 and change). Also if you have the disposable income to buy a high end, shiny smartphone like the iPhone or whatnot you for sure have the money to buy a Curve instead.

As for regular phones, I don't know, I haven't looked at them but I bet you can find one that makes good calls. Probably doesn't have so many shiny features as its similar competitors. More money probalby went in to the antenna and less to the Brew games, but I bet it is out there. More would be out there if people made that a priority, rahter than going "Ooooo shiny!"

Re:We've come a long way

[maxwell demon]

I would expect my cell phone to work flawless for it's main function, making phone calls, provided there's no hardware defect, it has power, a working tower is in reach, and the network is not overloaded. I accept that non-core functionality may fail. I won't accept if the one defining functionality, which is making phone calls, doesn't work due to design or implementation defects. That's a proven technology, it's no rocket science, and it should be tested like hell.

Re:We've come a long way

[tomhudson]

I didn't care to look it up, but if it happened on a highway, there are phone booths for emergency calls every kilometre or so.

That's not going to help if you're stuck in your car.

In case of a fire - that's what neighbours are for. They will call 911 unless they want their house to burn down next.

Or they're not home, or they're asleep, etc.

Landlines are a dying breed. Only old folks and Koreans have them - and not so much the Koreans ...

Re:We've come a long way

[RobertM1968]

... and those hard-wired phones would have been just as useless in this case - a car accident.

... and good luck calling 911 from outside your house to report that your house is on fire.

I didn't care to look it up, but if it happened on a highway, there are phone booths for emergency calls every kilometre or so. In case of a fire - that's what neighbours are for. They will call 911 unless they want their house to burn down next.

No, no there are not. It depends on the highway and area. It is not a given (at least in the US). For instance, in NY, on I87 (the Northway, above Albany - not the NY Throughway south of Albany), emergency phones dont start until roughly exit 23 (or 45 miles north of Albany) - at which point, they are two miles away (or, inotherwords, if you pick the correct direction to walk, less than a mile - incorrect direction means up to two miles).

Anyway, the point being, like I87 (in New York alone) with over 200 miles of highway WITHOUT emergency phones, and often exits 10-30 miles apart, there is no such guarantee of finding such a phone, or even being near enough to an exit to walk to someplace that has one.

Re:We've come a long way

[vtcodger]

***Does the public really expect their cell phones to flawlessly or have I been using smartphones so long that I just accept wireless devices suck still?***

I don't suppose that the fact the phone doesn't work for non-emergency calls either would have any affect on your opinion? I submit that just maybe, possibly, at times, this particular phone model actually does suck a bit.

Re:We've come a long way

[RobertM1968]

but you're paying for more functionality, not less, and a phone that can't make calls is by definition less functional.

I hate to tell you this, mate, but a phone that can't make phone calls is, by definition, not a phone.

While I understand your sentiment, you are incorrect, just as back in the day when people used to buy hardwired phones for their house, they were phones from the time they were built right up until they were brought home and plugged in. They didnt magically become phones only after Ma Bell managed to bring service to the house and the owner plugged in the phone.

Before that or after that (working phone line, or signal in the case of cell), they were useless phones (at least for making calls), but phones nonetheless. If your engine seizes in your car, it is still a car, even though it no longer drives.

Re:We've come a long way

[Icebreaker]

I work for verizon wireless and yes verizon is wanting to fix this problem asap. the real problem though its not a network issue its a device issue and htc has their heads stuck up their ass and is not fixing it. Verizon cannot fix the issue since its a software issue and we don't make the software htc does. So blame htc and their shitty programming and poor quality control. So basically verizon is getting upset customers but has no resolution other than waiting for HTC to fix it.

Re:We've come a long way

[linzeal]

That makes no sense. A human corpse is still human, a wrecked car is still a car and a dead phone is still a phone.

Re:We've come a long way

[safetyinnumbers]

I think part of the problem is too many people view phones as toys first and phones second.

I once bought a Treo because I was a heavy Palm PDA user. One day it crashed and rebooted as it was receiving a call.

Now, I like gadgets, but when I replaced it a while later I decided to buy an S40-based phone. That's the old, more traditional "phone" OS than S60 or Maemo or whatever.

It's no 'smartphone' by any typical definition (although it has simple PDA functions like a calendar, stopwatch, notes etc and a camera).

But here's the thing: it *doesn't crash*. I don't mean I only have to reset it once a week or once a month or whatever. It... works.

For my cellphone, I want reliability first, and I'll get my gadget fix some other way.

Re:We've come a long way

[gmhowell]

Your use of 'kilometre' suggests you are not familiar with the dearth of payphones in the United States. A handful of highways here and there have emergency call boxes, but they are rare. (Former OTR truck driver, I've seen more US highways than 99.999% of Slashdot readers.)

Re:We've come a long way

[Culture20]

Remember back when you had to find a land line to call for help?

Remember back when land lines were on almost every street corner?

Now we're up in arms because a wireless device is not 100% reliable and it became very clear in an emergency situation.

Because the telephone companies have removed almost all of the payphones?

Re:We've come a long way

[mgblst]

In canada for example we have laws that require cell phones, even ones not attached to a plan, and with no carrier, can connect to 911.

Can you really be so ignorant to think this is only in Canada, and not enforced in the entire planet? Every single cell phone has to be able to call the emergency number (911, 112) even without a sim card.

Re:We've come a long way

[reub2000]

I expect them to work with a reasonable level or reliability, but so far I've been sorely disappointed. Currently I have a Sony W518 that will just randomly become unresponsive for 30-60 seconds. Before that I had a Nokia 6555 that would randomly claim that there was no SIM card in the phone, requiring a reboot. The thought that my life could depend on these devices is a very scary thought indeed.

Re:We've come a long way

[Icebreaker]

Also just a note for any htc eris customers. verizons tech bulletins for this issue states that if a customer does not want to wait for the upcoming htc software fix that we are allowed to swap out the device for a different model although you may have to speak to someone who knows what they are doing in order to get this done.

Re:We've come a long way

[RebootKid]

Way to post AC there, friend. Android is open source, but I suspect it's not an Android problem, or trust me, HTC would be making it Google's problem. There are other HTC phones out there running stock Android systems, as well as customized versions without problems. I suspect it's more a driver or firmware issue, and as soon as I can get my hands on an Eris that exhibits the bug, I'll start digging into it. As an aside, the "iPhone" vs "Android" crap that's going on is funny to me. They're both decent phones, hardware wise. They both have a *nix back ground to them, and are reasonably powerful devices. From there, it gets to be choice. I choose Android powered devices simply because I like them, and I appreciate having a choice about where I get my applications from, how I load them, and what I do with them. Some people like things simple. That is their choice as well.

Re:We've come a long way

[cynyr]

good thing in most urban areas, there are places with phones overlooking the accident, and you usually have neighbors taht will let you use their phone at 3AM if your house is one fire next to theirs.

Re:We've come a long way

[cynyr]

lawl it's wireless, i expect only >85%

Re:We've come a long way

[Icebreaker]

I know I shouldn't feed the trolls but here goes. "Android" is open source and HTC's eris is also open source (you can download the source from HTC) and as such any one who owns an eris COULD find and fix the issue but unless you are extremely skilled and have lots of free time I don't think most people would do that. As far as VZW fixing it that's like asking dell to fix a glitch in windows, its not their issue. Or, like asking att to fix software or hardware on the iphone its not their product carriers run the networks we do not make devices.

Re:We've come a long way

[thePowerOfGrayskull]

We expect phones to work for their intended purpose.

Being able to make a call and then not hear anything isn't acceptable. Occasionally you can't call due to reception problems, everybody understands that. But being able to complete a call and not hear is clearly a warranty issue.

Weren't you paying attention? Phones are software now. That means there's no implied warranty of fitness for a particular purchase -- it's in the click-through you agree to when you first boot up your phone.

I don't know if that's actually true or not - but I wouldn't be surprised to find that it is; or will soon become so. There's presumably no flaw in the hardware in this situation, which would put the bug firmly in the realm of software...

Re:We've come a long way

[icebike]

You buy the phone and the software and the network service from tjr same single company.

I'm not sure its necessary to be too precise in placing blame.

Re:We've come a long way

[Hunter0000]

I'm not sure it's HTC. I have had a Motorola droid for ~8 months now and have twice experienced this exact problem.

Re:We've come a long way

[lethalwp]

I have a Samsung Galaxy S for 2 weeks, experienced the same problem, it happened when receiving an incomming call while ending the previous one, after that, couldn't hear anything through the hear-speaker until reboot.

Not even the 'number called' tone

Re:We've come a long way

[Xest]

"... and those hard-wired phones would have been just as useless in this case - a car accident. " ...because car accidents can't possibly ever happen near buildings with phones in them?

"... and good luck calling 911 from outside your house to report that your house is on fire. " ...and no one has any neighbours, ever, they all live in the middle of nowhere?

Hey don't get me wrong, I'm not excusing the fault in the phone if that's what it is, but come on, comments like that give the impression that not only have people lost the ability to use a land line, but have lost all logical thought functions too.

The fact is, we don't know where the accident happened, maybe it did happen in the middle of nowhere, but the GP had a good point- there are a lot of people who would rather complain about their phone not working than do the smart thing and ask to use someone elses. I think he was also getting at the point that even if they were in the middle of nowhere, even having to reboot the phone to make a call is a massive step forward from the era where we had no mobile phones. I mean, what the hell do people do when they witness a car accident in an area with no mobile coverage? Just drive on thinking there's nothing they can do because their cell doesn't work rather than go to the closest working phone?

For what it's worth, I'm intrigued to know if this really is a problem with the handset, or if it's a few rogue reports assuming it is, and believing that resetting has solved it when in fact it's nothing to do with that. The reason I say this is because I've had the same problem on land lines before, where I've had phone calls and the person at the other end couldn't hear me or vice versa. I've also had the same on pretty much every mobile I've ever used at some time or another too. In both cases it's not a hardware problem, it's a network problem, and so even if it is a fault in the handset this problem can certainly arise with any handset, although simply making the call again is usually all that's needed in this case- if the Eris problem really does only fix itself with a reboot then it probably is indeed a handset issue.

Mobile phones absolutely should be dependable, but the fact is, they're just not. Relying on them 100% rather than using common sense, is a bad thing.

Re:We've come a long way

[Nushio]

I beg to differ. http://code.google.com/p/cyanogenmod/issues/detail?id=1385

CyanogenMod is based on Android's source code. If it's fixed on the "official" HTC/Google Roms, I don't know. But this has happened to me, on CyanogenMod 5.0.8, on the G1. A reboot fixed it.

Re:We've come a long way

[GigaplexNZ]

They used Canada as an example and made no assumptions about other countries as they had no knowledge of their status. What is ignorant is assuming every single location on the planet has laws enforcing this. If one can trust Wikipedia, it states that UK GSM for example requires a SIM card.

Re:We've come a long way

[GigaplexNZ]

You buy the phone and the software and the network service from tjr same single company.

Really? One can typically buy an unlocked phone, get a connection pack with some network provider, and if it is an Android device Google typically does most of the software. Three different points of contact right there.

Re:We've come a long way

[delinear]

This is what happens when we eschew the tried an tested car analogy in favour of caves.

Re:We've come a long way

[delinear]

Agreed - I'm more confused about why we don't know more about the issue. If it's fully replicable (as suggested in TFS) so long as you don't reboot the phone, i.e. it happens on every call after the first time you notice it, surely someone could have used this to track down the exact issue by now. I'm interested mainly in whether it's a HTC specific thing or whether it's a wider Android issue (being an Adroid owner AND an HTC owner, albeit a different model, it would be nice to know if this is something that might affect me and if someone knows what the issue is and is working towards a fix).

Re:We've come a long way

[Guignol]

rocket surgery.... *shivers*

Re:We've come a long way

[tehcyder]

I think part of the problem is too many people view phones as toys first and phones second.

That's because most people aren't phone bois.

Re:We've come a long way

[Schadrach]

...or people who live in rural mountainous areas, where cell service is patchy and wildly different per provider. Much of the population living in hollows along various small streams with mountains on literally every side except up/downstream makes for limited service -- mountains are good at stopping that kind of thing.

Re:We've come a long way

[realityimpaired]

I never have silent calls on my HTC Dream, but I do have times when it sticks in "Dialling" without actually connecting the call... I think that's more a network problem than a phone problem.

The weird thing that happens with the phone, and I'm certain it's a software problem, is that the phone will, sometimes, decide it has no signal at all. Zero bars and a little X over the signal strength indicator. Even when I'm downtown. That's usually fixed by putting the phone into airplane mode and then taking it back into normal calling mode, though on rare occasions I do need to reboot the phone.

Something's weird with the software.

Re:We've come a long way

[Nushio]

Are you using 2.x mods? Because I'm pretty sure the problem started at Eclair, not Donut.

Re:We've come a long way

[Qzukk]

People have short memories. I remember when we all used land lines, and there were times when I'd call someone and they could hear me but I couldn't hear them. Or the phone would just ring randomly and there'd be nothing on the other end. Or...

My (old) candy bar nokia does the "silent call" thing every now and then, it doesn't need a reboot I just have to hang up and try again. Sometimes if I retry too soon I get a "network error" message.

Re:We've come a long way

[RebootKid]

Odd. Got a G1, Cliq, and Droid, and never seen the problem. Mind sending me the build info? The G1 & Droid are running Cyanogen images, but the Cliq is stock.

Re:We've come a long way

[mcgrew]

Remember back when you had to find a land line to call for help?

Yes, but a lot of younger people don't. Back when you had to find a landline, there was a pay phone at every gas station and most other businesses as well. Now pay phones are quaint, and there are few left. This is actually a step backwards; you have to rely on your cell, which may have a dead battery or be broken.

When tornados hit my neighborhood in 2006, landlines were out of commission for two weeks (there were few utility poles standing), but my cell worked the whole time. I was lucky they had power at work, I charged it there.

Re:We've come a long way

[mcgrew]

yes, your life can depend on it, just because we 'got by' with landline phones doesn't mean they didn't cost lives, there just wasn't anything you could do about it.

Oblig. car analogy: we didn't used to have ABS, air bags, or even seat belts, but we did without because such life saving devices didn't exist.

Re:We've come a long way

[dgatwood]

Those sorts of problems usually indicate a baseband crash. On most modern phones, you have a separate baseband processor that handles cellular traffic. If the baseband processor crashes due to bugs in the baseband firmware, the baseband processor must be reset. Putting a phone into airplane mode shuts off the baseband hardware, and disabling airport mode turns the hardware back on again. This has the effect of rebooting the baseband hardware and resetting it to a known good state.

The real questions in my mind are:

• Why us the baseband firmware almost invariably such crap to begin with? Do the chip manufacturers not test these things before they ship them?
• Why don't the baseband hardware vendors expose enough state information via their communication bus so that the cell phone's main OS can determine that the baseband is hopelessly wedged and power cycle the baseband hardware automatically without user intervention....

*shrugs*

Re:We've come a long way

[mcgrew]

I would expect my cell phone to work flawless for it's main function, making phone calls, provided there's no hardware defect, it has power, a working tower is in reach, and the network is not overloaded.

I would expect the network to NOT BE OVERLOADED. In the US you buy the phone from the carrier, so AFAIK any time you can't make or recieve a call (unless you're in a tin shack faraday cage or in a roaming area), if you can't make or recieve a call it's the phone company's fault. Also, if it has a defect I expect it to be recalled and fixed, just like if a defect is found in my car.

I also expect non-core functionality to work flawlessly as well. I paid good money for it and I expect it to work as advertised. If your device is partly functional you're a fool to accept that situation. Demand that they fix it or refund your money.

You kids need to stop letting these bozos screw you over. If you buy something that doesn't work, raise hell like us geezers do.

Re:We've come a long way

[dgatwood]

Err... why does.... Wow, typing half asleep is not a good idea.

Re:We've come a long way

[dgatwood]

Err.. is. Wow, correcting typos half asleep is also not a good idea.

Re:We've come a long way

[icebike]

This thread is about the Verizon Wireless HTC Eris, a phone sold only thru Verizon, Always locked, Always unnder contract, and it works only on their network.

Try to stay on topic.

The problem here is Verizon denying Warranty Claims against this phone.

The good news is that there are reports of a software fix coming in 4 day.

http://www.androidcentral.com/droid-eris-owners-update-coming-july-16

Re:We've come a long way

[tomhudson]

It's a real problem with the handset - some people who posted in the forum are on their 4th handset already. Maybe they should rename it Android - XBOX Edition.

Re:We've come a long way

[Hunter0000]

Both occurrences were running stock (2.0 and 2.1) but I am running cyanogen now. Has not done it again since installing cyanogen, but it hasn't been long enough for that to mean anything based on the infrequency of this problem.

ha

[papasui]

Steve Jobs is a moron for making such a shitty phone! Oh wait...

Re:ha

[Skuld-Chan]

One minor difference is of course - the Eris is free with the contract :).

Still no excuse, but it sounds like a software problem and not a hardware design flaw.

Re:ha

[uprise78]

Best be careful making comments like that on Slashdot. Open is right. Open is God. Open rules. Even if open isn't really that good it is still better. Even if you have to root your Android phone to make it open it is still better. Wait, can't you root and jailbreak an iPhone too...

Re:ha

[Skuld-Chan]

With the Eris you could argue that :).

Re:ha

[majesticmerc]

Maybe they're not holding it right?

Re:ha

[aaarrrgggh]

...well, everybody has access to the source code; just fix it yourself already!

Re:ha

[pem]

Why do people always say that when what they really mean is "You don't get what you don't pay for." ???

Re:ha

[an unsound mind]

"Free with the contract" ain't free.

Re:ha

[GigaplexNZ]

"Free with the contract" ain't free.

But it's certainly cheaper than "still expensive with the contract".

payback

[fermion]

I recall many were saying that the problem with iPhone was that it was too hard to use as a phone. Well, at least, if you went through all the hoops, the iPhone actually works. The biggest issue is dropped calls, in which case you just call the person back.

A reboot indicates something like a memory leak. Hardware problems would not be reliably fixed. This is certainly some brain dead software error, a case of development focusing on the bells and whistle, and not core functionality. Everyone is so wrapped up in the tethering and Apps, that they forgot they were building a phone.

Re:payback

[Loomismeister]

Tethering is an almost effortless addition to a phone that already uses the internet. Apps are for the most part developed by 3rd party members that never even contributed to the core functionality of the phone to begin with.

To blame this problem on the development of apps and tethering is silly, and I think the only reason you mentioned tethering was because that's one thing the iPhone lacks.

Re:payback

[papasui]

Iphone has had tethering for at least a year in the native software, but feel free to carry on with your uniformed opinions.

Re:payback

[Nerdfest]

By coincidence, a friend of mine had his iPhone crash when calling 911 last week. It was admittedly one he found on the ground beside a sidewalk, but seemed to be in decent shape. I think it will take a few years before everybody gets all the bugs worked out of the underlying operating systems.

Re:payback

[Loomismeister]

No, I'll update my opinion now that I am informed. My point still stands that it is silly to blame this phone issue on tethering

Re:payback

[The Grim Reefer2]

This is certainly some brain dead software error, a case of development focusing on the bells and whistle, and not core functionality.

That kind of reminds me of a mobile phone ad I saw in the EU a while back. The basic gist was about all of these features the phone had, camera, video, etc. At the end they asked "But can you make a phone call with it?" I think that seems to be lost on many smart phones. They can do all this crap, but miss that the fundamental use of a phone is to make calls. I've seen several phones that had awful call quality, or required way too many steps to actually make a call. I would think that the telephone part would be the one thing that should not have problems.

Re:payback

[Anonymous Coward]

If you check the title, it says droid eris, not all android phones. So gloating is a little pointless. That said, my friend's eris has had this issue and verizon has sent a third replacement which so far isn't as plagued as the others. They aren't moving users to the incredible yet, because those are even in short demand, apparently because of delays in the screen production.

Re:payback

[flowwolf]

He's not blaming tethering. What he's saying is it seems that Android developers care more about whistles and bells than actually making the phone work as it should. They race the development in order to have the feature the other guy doesn't have out yet. Maybe they should slow it down a little and make sure their phone software actually makes calls, or calls 911 while gps on, etc..
HTC's track record is really crapping it up. I was thinking of getting an incredible if they came to Canada but now I am completely sold on the iPhone 4. I consistently see incredible problems from the company.

Re:payback

[stephanruby]

When all the 39 different Android phone models are having the same issue, then may be you'd have a point, but the thing is the Droid Eris is only one phone, and a low end one at that (low resolution, low 5 MP camera, no 4G, slow CPU from an older architecture, no physical keyboard, very cheap price).

Gloating about the problems of the Droid Eris would be like an Apple-hater gloating about the fact that the iPod Shuffle is a piece of crap. That very well may be true, but it's not very relevant to the users that only buy the higher end flagship devices for themselves (and would only give the cheaper iPod Shuffles to their six year old kids anyway).

Re:payback

[indiechild]

I never heard about or experienced any of those call problems, but then I've been using the iPhone 2G in Australia for the last 3 years. Maybe it's a carrier-related problem?

Re:payback

[bm_luethke]

This is only an issue with a single phone. It may be software, then again it may not. It obviously isn't and Android issue as this model is the only one experiencing it. Of course, Android being Open Source HTC could have introduced their own bugs. It may make some iPhone owners feel better to think otherwise, but it is not an issue with Android (or at least one that hits other phones). But if you really want to gloat go ask people who purchased an iPhone that their natural way of holding the phone causes severe attenuation and/or the prox sensor to consistently think it is not held up to their face. Further find that Apples response is "hold it different". I do not think you will find a happy Apple customer there either - though I guess you can say "sure your wrist hurts, you fingers cramp, and you have to choose if you hear a call or randomly press buttons on the screen every time you use it - but dangit your phone is GREAT as you do not have to reboot every once in a while"

Not really seeing much difference here, other than I do not know what Apple was so wrapped up doing to not test sufficiently and for whatever reason Apple has a significant portion of their users that will excuse anything Apple does. In both cases a small segment of the market gets screwed and the corporate response is "suck it up". Both problems make the phone pretty much useless and both are caused by faults in the design of the phone (be it hardware or software). The only difference I see is that if I still want an Android phone there are other choices (not to say Motorola would treat me better either) and with Apple you are stuck.

Nor does a reboot indicate a "memory leak" - it just indicates an unrecoverable issue from the UI. It may be that a driver needs reloaded (overflows, hardware errors, etc), it could be that some variable wasn't bounds checked and reached an invalid state and some process needs killed/restarted, it could be any number of things - a memory leak is probably one of the *least* likely scenarios (especially given that it only affects a very specific portion of the phone). Since there isn't really any troubleshooting interface a reboot is typically what you try on phones. Same thing with any device - if you had the appropriate interface you may not need a reboot but lacking that there isn't much else you can do. Indeed, for most of my relatives that call me my first response is "reboot the machine" because 99% of the time it fixes it and I do not want to drive over to their house to figure out which process to start/stop. For the most part I get few calls anymore as the reboot fixes most things with no trouble shooting (I'll come over to their house for chronic issues or major ones).

Re:payback

[Lifyre]

It's actually not JUST the Eris, it's most prominent in the Eris. There have been reports on many of the HTC phones including the Nexus One and the Hero. I own an Eris and love the thing. I'd love it more if I hadn't screwed my chances at root up with the 2.1 leak. Oh and I don't have the silent call issue as far as I know.

Re:payback

[dangitman]

low resolution, low 5 MP camera,

Since when was 5 megapixels "low resolution"? With this type of phone camera, that's pretty much beyond what the optical system of the tiny lens can resolve. And on a proper camera with decent optics, 5MP is enough to create great results.

Re:payback

[thePowerOfGrayskull]

Tethering is an almost effortless addition to a phone that already uses the internet

Only if you've never had to code it yourself ;)

The number of times i see people say "It would be easy to do XYZ" in regards to a complex software system or architecture has moved beyond mildly amusing into the realm of vaguely irritating...

Re:payback

[ShakaUVM]

>>When all the 39 different Android phone models are having the same issue, then may be you'd have a point, but the thing is the Droid Eris is only one phone

My Motorola Droid has done it once or twice, and my LG VX8300 used to do it all the damn time. I'd have to hang up and then redail. I honestly think that it's just a bug in Verizon's network.

Also, I don't know what the issue with 911 is, anyway. I once witnessed a robbery at a Mira Mesa Ralph's (grocery store) and was on hold for about 15 minutes with 911 until someone picked up. 3 or 4 other people were on hold as long when they tried to dial, too. I don't think there's an expectation of speedy answering these days, is there?

Re:payback

[phil4]

It isn't just the Eris, the HTC Hero does the same things since the 2.1 update. I wonder if it is happening to other models - I have only been following the Hero forums to see if there is any fix before I update to 2.1.

Re:payback

[stephanruby]

Since when was 5 megapixels "low resolution"? With this type of phone camera, that's pretty much beyond what the optical system of the tiny lens can resolve. And on a proper camera with decent optics, 5MP is enough to create great results.

Sorry, I should have said "low [screen] resolution, low 5MP camera..." because its screen really does have a lower resolution. And a 5MP camera is not a low resolution camera, definitely not, but the pixel-count is lower than some of the cameras of the flagship models that have just come out, or are about to come out (at least, that's the case for my Evo which has an 8MP camera, and I believe the Incredible is supposed to have an 8MP camera as well).

Re:payback

[delinear]

My GF's iPhone (3GS) drops calls all the time. Not that we attributed that to the phone, we just assumed it was the network (actually we initially assumed it was my phone, since I always had poor coverage and she usually had full "bars", however, since changing my phone and my network and now having much better signal strength, we still get dropped calls). I guess it could be a phone issue, or it might be the issue reported recently with the phones displaying a better signal strength than they actually had making it appear that she had a better signal than was the case, but most likely her network coverage is rubbish.

Re:payback

[delinear]

Indeed, one of the only things I regret about updating from my old Nokia N95 is that the camera on that was fantastic. It was "only" 5MP, but the picture quality was amazing, certainly better than a lot of actual cameras I've seen. Unless you're wanting to blow the photos up to huge sizes, a better quality lense with a sensible MP limit will almost always produce better results - so many of the 10MB cameras have such shocking lenses that the photos are atrocious.

Re:payback

[stephanruby]

Actually, my Nokia E71 used to do that as well, sometimes it got stuck in 3G mode (even thought, I set it to never use 3G), and I couldn't do any calls with it until I rebooted (even thought the E71 is supposed to work on 3G, the 3G from T-Mobile in the US is using a slightly different band within 3G).

As to the 911 calls in the US, there is a well-known routing problem for any cell phone that tries to dial 911. In California for instance, all the calls from cell phones for 911 automatically get routed to the same California Highway Patrol dispatch center. So with the advent of almost everyone having a cell phone these days, you not only have 30+ people calling the same dispatch center for the exact same incident that's happening at the very same time, but usually you end up having reached the wrong dispatch center anyway and they end up having to forward your call to someone else.

That's why, it's important to call from a land-line. From a land-line, you get routed to the right local 911 dispatch center immediately, plus through a reverse-lookup they automatically have the address you're calling from, and you also usually never have to wait for someone to pick up your call. And assuming you can't get quick access to a land-line, the next best thing is to have the direct phone numbers to all the police emergency lines in your area already pre-entered in your cell phone's address book. If you don't have those numbers entered in there yet, may be you should do that right now, you just never know the next time you'll need to call them.

Re:payback

[stephanruby]

I know, but that doesn't change the fact that Verizon (the current paid licensee of the trademark Droid) is referring to the device as the "Droid Eris".

Re:payback

[space_jake]

I've had this happen ~3 times over the 8 months I've had my Moto Droid. I think the first may have even been pre-2.1.

Re:payback

[Loomismeister]

Him saying that android devs care more about bells and whistles (like tethering) is the cause of the phone calls not working is the same thing as blaming tethering.

HTC didn't make the OS, and yet you are blaming the Android OS for this problem. You are blaming the open source community of focusing on making apps which is somehow hurting the quality of the actual phone capabilities.

HTC's track record is actually pretty great; They make plenty of customized phones, and they did wonders in making a usable front-end of the microsoft OS.

Yet none of this really matters, the point is that this guy made a silly comment. It is not development of apps that caused this problem, and it wasn't trying to catch up to the iPhone either.

Sometimes shit happens, and it's how companies handle that shit that matters. Apples track record is really crapping up, especially when they told users that they were holding their phones wrong because of the shitty antenna design.

Re:payback

[tepples]

Tethering is an almost effortless addition to a phone that already uses the internet

Only if you've never had to code it yourself ;)

As I understand it, tethering is just a proxy server running on a phone. What problems have you run into getting a proxy to run on a phone?

Re:Phones which can not make phone calls

[0123456]

If you can't get the software under control, just make two devices in one. The electronics needed for a complete phone should be negligible compared to the rest of the portable computer.

This is why I like a phone which just, you know, makes phone calls. We don't use ours much but we've never had to reboot it or install OS upgrades just to be able to phone someone.

I have no mouth,

[Anonymous Coward]

but I must scream!

I state the following...

[Impy the Impiuos Imp]

It's called a state machine. It's a marvelous invention. Look into it.

Re:I state the following...

[maxwell demon]

It's called a state machine. It's a marvelous invention. Look into it.

I'm waiting for the federal machine.

Re:Phones which can not make phone calls

[PitaBred]

Even crappy phones still have an OS. I've had call issues with many different phones, not just smart phones. And many times the issues were solved with... you guessed it, rebooting the phone. Sometimes I even had to remove the battery.

Obvious...

[grub]

You're dialing it wrong.

Re:Obvious...

[masmullin]

You're telling the joke wrong.

Re:not limited to this phone...

[hbush]

Yep, I can confirm this. Same thing happens with two iPhones 3GS in my family. Reboot helps but not for a long time. When I know there will be important calls I usually re-boot my iPhone in advance, just in case.

Done this for years

[Anonymous Coward]

Heck, I have been rebooting my Windows Mobile phones for years to make calls. The competitors are only now catching up?

Re:Phones which can not make phone calls

[0123456]

Even crappy phones still have an OS.

But probably 5% as much code and therefore less than 5% as many bugs.

You Think That's Bad...

[pandrijeczko]

...what about an Eris owner trying to call a left-handed iPhone 4 owning friend who just happens to be holding his iPhone 4 by the wrong corner at that particular moment - they have *NO* hope of talking to each other.

Nexus One

[nrgy]

I had this very same problem with my Nexus One. Even worse rebooting did not always solve the issue.

I bought my Nexus at launch and while I was happy with it at first, the past few months it just started acting crazy. Icons on the desktop would open a different application, the issue from the article, the keyboard opening when a phone call was coming in "you couldnt slide to answer because it was ontop".

After all that and more, once the lock button on my Nexus started to give out I just went back to my iPhone.

Another factor in the symptom

[billraper]

It > that (as some have noticed) this problem is more prevalent on older handsets. I bought mine in November when they first came out. While I ran Android 1.5, the problem did not appear. When I downloaded the 2.1 "leaked" version, the problem did not appear. HOWEVER, when I re-downgraded to 1.5 and received the 2.1 OTA update, the problem popped up. I received a replacement eris the other day and (knock on wood) this problem has not appeared on the new phone. HOWEVER Android 2.1 performs pretty poorly on the Eris. After 4 tries, Verizon has agreed to ship me an Incredible. Now just to wait and see whether they make good...

Can you hear me now? Nope?

[aristotle-dude]

Maybe all of those Android fans of Verizon shouldn't have been making fun of the iPhone. Payback is a bitch.

Re:Can you hear me now? Nope?

[mmcxii]

More like being a fanboi makes you a bitch.

Every product has defects, every product has failures. Its a fact. Creating great expectations from any product or brand is setting oneself up for disappointment.

Re:Can you hear me now? Nope?

[Kenja]

What percentage of new Android phone models have issues compared to 100% of the new iPhone models?

Regardless, the lesson is the same. Dont buy unreviewed hardware.

Re:Can you hear me now? Nope?

[bm_luethke]

I have not seen any Android fans of Verizon - who likes Verizon? It may be the least sucky one in the US for the most part - but be a fan of it? It seems that Verizon is replacing a number of times too, I'm not sure what I think their response should be too as it is an HTC issue, not Verizon. OTOH since a new phone purchase involves a two year contract that changes things (just as it does if you are one that is having issues with an iPhone 4 - if it was just a matter of returning it and getting a different one then things would be different).

Or do you mean Android fans? There are more carriers than Verizon with Android (unlike AT&T - which truly sucks as a carrier where I live), indeed all the carriers have one now. Even then this isn't an Android issue but an HTC Eris issue. Last I checked there are quite a few Android based that *aren't* Eris's and have not had this issue reported. In fact I would say that there are more *non-Eris* Android phones currently being sold (unlike if you want a new iPhone - better not be one of the ones that their natural way they hold the phone is "wrong").

I guess if you mean HTC Eris fans gloating then OK, I'll buy that you weren't that specific. However that's not remotely what you wrote.

So yea - payback to all five of you Eris owners that love Verizon - revenge is a dish best served sweet!

Re:Can you hear me now? Nope?

[aristotle-dude]

What percentage of new Android phone models have issues compared to 100% of the new iPhone models? Regardless, the lesson is the same. Dont buy unreviewed hardware.

100%? Doubtful. All phones will exhibit some level of signal attenuation when held and if you hold it in a death grip deliberate, you will get even greater signal loss but if you have a strong signal, you can still make a call under those artificial circumstances. If 100% of iPhone 4's were being sold in San Francisco then you would have a point.

You have to go out of your way to make it happen because nobody is going to hold it in a death grip when they have it to their ear.

Re:Can you hear me now? Nope?

[aristotle-dude]

I never had any problems in Canada or when travelling in the states, Japan or Europe.

Voice is so 90s

[mysidia]

If 911 won't accept a SMS message, who would WANT to call them?

Re:Voice is so 90s

[larry bagina]

My city police set up a number for SMS messaging emergencies. They cancelled it after three weeks: too many dick-pics, goatses, and not a single legitimate emergency.

Re:Voice is so 90s

[Vegeta99]

Why didn't they do what they do when you prank-voice-call 911? You know, send a cop to chastise you?

Re:Voice is so 90s

[mcgrew]

1890s? Sheesh, you kids today. What's faster, hitting 911 (and you don't have to say anything) or typing on that tiny keyboard "my hse s n fre snd truk" or "im hvng hrt attk snd ambulnce"?

Intelligence is so 90s... Now GTFO my lawn, kid!

I've experienced it...

[wolf1oo]

I have noted that my HTC Eris was experiencing problems such as this every once in a while, but I thought it was due to some residual moisture that resulted from a previous drop in a pool.... I guess the root of the problem wasn't that at all! Which is certainly a relief, it took long enough just to dry it out properly the first time...

Re:Phones which can not make phone calls

[Darkness404]

Not really because when was the last time you upgraded your firmware on it? In general "dumb" phones are pretty disposable, if there is a bug like this on a "dumb" phone (and, there are) the chances of getting it fixed are zero. With a smartphone, chances are there will be an update within the next month that corrects the issue.

Any issue in a "dumb" phone never gets fixed, issues in smartphones might though.

HTC software sucks

[Anonymous Coward]

I've been running CyanogenMod on my Eris for a bit now. I don't have this problem. I can't stand the Sense software HTC provides because it's bloated and buggy.

Can you hear me now?

[masmullin]

Can you hear me now?
...
....
*bzzzzzzzz*

New? I say nay nay!

[Anonymous Coward]

I had this problem on and off with my Treo on Verizon, and with pretty much every phone before that. Sometimes it would take five tries to get a call through. I blame Verizon's network.

But the Eris isn't without it's problems.

I'm getting ready to send my son's Eris back because the microphone just quit. Didn't even work for voice record. It's also got a flaky trackball. This will be his third Eris. Meanwhile, my wife's Eris makes calls to people while laying on the table. Then they call back wondering what she wanted.

My Moto Droid, on the other hand, has been rock solid, and hardly ever has a bad call. My son is hoping for a couple more bad Eris's so he can qualify for a "lemon" replacement and switch to a Moto Droid. The HTC phones had great promise, but the workmanship leaves a lot to be desired.

Re:not limited to this phone...

[molecular]

weird, I've been experiencing this on a really old Nokia Phone (no smartphone) here in germany. Dead silence both ways while call is active.The problem goes away after a reboot, but not for long.
Probably a coincidence, but I never had this problem before.
<insert>conspiracy theory about a bug in some surveillance equipment</insert>

Re:Phones which can not make phone calls

[0123456]

if there is a bug like this on a "dumb" phone (and, there are) the chances of getting it fixed are zero.

Which probably means that the QA is a lot better too, in order to ensure that it doesn't ship with crippling bugs.

Rebooting your phone?

[RightwingNutjob]

At the ripe old age of 24, even I find this ridiculous. If cell phone programmers designed commercial autopilots, no one in their right mind would fly. If they designed ECU software for Toyotas, oh wait.

Re:Phones which can not make phone calls

[flowwolf]

Even crappy phones still have attennas. I've had call issues with many different phones, not just smart phones. And many times the issues were solved with... you guessed it, holding the phone different. Sometimes I even had to use a case!

Suddenly when 'Another Company'(tm) with a track record of releasing models with horrible problems does it, no one cares.

And I thought it was just me!

[Montrey]

The Eris is the most disappointing piece of electronic equipment I have ever purchased, and that includes a Dreamcast. It is absurdly slow to respond to input, even in simply dialing a phone number. I have experienced the 'silent bug' many times since the update to 2.1, and since the phone requires 2-3 minutes to boot, I can understand the bug being devastating in an emergency. I would switch back to my ancient Samsung flip phone if I could only find its charger.

Re:And I thought it was just me!

[Anonymous Coward]

I've had an Eris since March. It was slow then. As soon as I could root it and flash a custom ROM, I did. The thing is pretty fast now. (Quadrant score went from ~200 to ~340 without overclocking.) HTC's Sense UI really slows the thing down. If you are stuck with your Eris, I highly recommend rooting it and installing an AOSP based ROM. It will not be as fast as a Droid, Evo, N1, etc. There's nothing we can do about that. It's just the hardware. But it doesn't have to be so painfully slow. Mine is not. And, maybe I've been lucky, but I've never had the silent bug. I love my Eris. It's small, light and works very well. It's unfortunate that you've had a bad experience.

Re:And I thought it was just me!

[Montrey]

Thanks, I may give that a shot. I had considered rooting it in order to overclock, but the battery life isn't the greatest already. I did disable Sense, and the phone did speed up a lot. Thank you for the tip.

All cellphones have this problem

[greggman]

I've had this problem with every phone I've owned since 2003.

I'll be someplace where I know there is a strong signal. I'll try and try and try to either (a) dial or (b) connect to some site. After 3-6 tries with no luck I reboot the phone and it immediately works.

This was true for me with a Sharp phone, 2 Casio phones, a Sony Ericsson phone, an Apple iPhone 3G and my Nexus One.

Re:All cellphones have this problem

[Red_Chaos1]

Yeah, it's happened a few times with my 1st gen enV as well. Definitely not something unique to Android, I'd say it's a flaw in Verizon's software, or the network.

Quick question

[LynnwoodRooster]

Were they holding it wrong?

Re:not limited to this phone...

[toadlife]

I've had this happen one or two times with my Touch Pro 2 (Windows Mobile). If it's happening with many different makes of phones, I wonder if it could be a bug in the code running on the towers.

Apple must be pissed

[maccodemonkey]

Someone has officially outdone the iPhone 4. Apple is going to have to work hard to compete with this one. Perhaps hiding the phone dialer entirely until a reboot?

Charger?

[phorm]

Was it perchance plugged into the charger when it did this? It sounds like the touch-sensor on the screen may be off.

  My milestone did that when it was plugged into a (ironically) an iphone charger, or sometimes if the milestone charger was on my car's inverter. For some reason funky power made it misinterpret touch events or even register non-existent ones.

Re:Sucks to be poor

[MadnessASAP]

My mom used to hope that I wouldn't ever come back.

headphones icon with no headphones connected

[seb42]

The silent call problem has happen to me on a HTC Desire (in Australia) and had to reboot, but I did notice the the headphone icon was on before the reboot. After reboot no headphone icon and all ok. Am running the beta Audible for Android app and I was listening with headphones earlier in the day. I know the app is in beta and main problem for me is headphone controls do work. I may not have been the Audible app, will keep an eye on the headphone icon from now on.

Next commercial for Verizon guy...

[shacky003]

"Can you hear me now?" {reboot} "Can you hear me now?"

Re:not a problem

[Meski]

You're saying you own one, then?

911 call fail?

[PPH]

I'd call it silent but deadly.

Re:Phones which can not make phone calls

[Arancaytar]

Hey, we heard you like phones, so we put a phone in your phone, so you can dial while you dial.

Re:Sucks to be poor

[FatdogHaiku]

I know what you mean. When I was a kid my family relocated several times... but I always found them...

Re:Phones which can not make phone calls

[Tintivilus]

"dumb"phone defects are sometimes dealt with over-the-air, or the user brings the phone back into the store to re-flash or exchange it for an updated model. Returned phones are re-flashed in a distribution center and sent back to stores for exchange as refurbished models.

It's *very* rare that a phone cannot be reflashed at all - Not only would the hardware is scrap if a software defect is found, but each and every phone would have to be contracted for a specific carrier and market before it's manufactured. When was the last time you saw a model of phone that was 100% identical between two carriers?

Oblig Illuminatus! reference

[D4C5CE]

In the name of Eris, how can't this be an Apple? Today is Pungenday, the 47th day of Confusion in the YOLD 3176 ;-)

Re:So Open Source Caught This?

[Pliny]

Umm... Actually some "unofficial" Hero roms had this problem, and it was fixed. I can't remember exactly what the fix was, but a search of the XDA forums might be enlightening.

I'm a very satisfied Eris owner

[wernox1987]

I've had my Eris since March and have been very satisfied with it. As a pda, it does everything I ask it to and more, its only when you start using it as a phone that you bump into issues. The dialer is very laggy and I think the "silent call" issue is as much related to those problems as the 2.1 update. Personally, I think a number of Eris users, me included, installed leaked versions of the 2.1 update prior to the official OTA. The leaks updated HBOOT on the phone to a version that wasn't rootable under any known exploits. However, a phone updated to 2.1 by the OTA stayed at HBOOT 1.47 and was still rootable. People seeking root were claiming they were suffering from the "silent call" bug to get a 1.6 device that they could then root and update via OTA. Leakers regret.

How did you downgrade?

[wernox1987]

I didn't think we leakers could downgrade without being rooted and that installing the leak wiped out root access.

Mod parent informative, please

[KovaaK]

It's also happening on my Motorola Backflip on AT&T's network. I was hoping that the 2.1 update (Backflips are still on 1.5 at the moment) was going to fix that, but it sounds like it won't.

Re:not a problem

[ZeroExistenZ]

You're a linux-nerd, you'll figure out a way that's quasi incomprehensible for others, but it will work just the way you like it.

Android or Eris

[corigo]

Personally I've had this same problem on my Motorola Droid. So is this really related to the HTC Eris, or is this an Android issue that some how comes up more frequently on the Eris then on the Droid?

Dissatisfied Eris owner...

[bynary]

As one of the many dissatisfied Droid Eris owners I have a couple things to say. First, Verizon has told me several times that they are "handling things differently now" when it comes to defective phones. It took three trips to two separate, local Verizon stores and two phone calls to Verizon tech support before someone finally agreed to send me a replacement Eris. I have been told by three separate Verizon reps that a software patch is being released that will "definitely fix" the sound problem, but as of last Thursday there was no ETA on said update (looks like that's changed). Between a new (well, "refurbished") handset and a software patch this week, I'm hoping I have a working phone soon.

GLaD I rooted mine.

[Admiral Spock]

This makes me glad that I rooted my Eris.

Happened on my Incredible yesterday

[the big v]

I had this exact same symptom on my Droid Incredible yesterday. The microphone worked fine for a voice search (I was afraid of hardware failure), so I just rebooted and everything went back to normal. Curiously, outbound calls I could hear the other person by they could not hear me, and inbound call was dead silent.

Line rental fee

[tepples]

Landlines are a dying breed. Only old folks and Koreans have them

And people who don't have cable TV. As I understand it, home Internet providers charge a "line rental fee" if you don't also subscribe to the older service offered over the same last mile. Cable's "line rental fee" is equal to the price of limited basic cable TV, and DSL's is often close to the price of a traditional land line.