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'Wi-Fi Illness' Spreads To Ontario Public Schools
An anonymous reader writes "Readers of Slashdot might be familiar with Lakehead University's ban on WiFi routers a few years ago in Thunder Bay, Ontario because of 'health concerns,' a policy apparently still in effect. Now it seems a group of concerned parents in a number of communities in Ontario have petitioned the local school boards over similar concerns at public schools, where their kids are apparently experiencing 'headaches to dizziness and nausea and even racing heart rates' — symptoms that appear only when they are in school on weekdays, not on weekends at home. 'The symptoms, which also include memory loss, trouble concentrating, skin rashes, hyperactivity, night sweats and insomnia, have been reported in 14 Ontario schools in Barrie, Bradford, Collingwood, Orillia and Wasaga Beach since the board decided to go wireless ...' Besides Wi-Fi signals, could there possibly be any other logical explanation for kids having more symptoms of illness on school days than at home on weekends or in the summer?"
We all know Wi-Fi was created to serve our reptilian overlords...
"Besides Wi-Fi signals, could there possibly be any other logical explanation for kids having more symptoms of illness on school days than at home on weekends or in the summer?"
Um, being in school doesn't count as a reason?
Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
because stress NEVER causes any of those symptoms...
...being around other kids?
" ..Besides Wi-Fi signals, could there possibly be any other logical explanation for kids having more symptoms of illness on school days than at home on weekends or in the summer?"
Maybe kids don't like being in school? I found myself more active and alert when at home as opoposed to school when I was attending.
Don't people in Canada have WiFi at home? Surely if the illness was WiFi related they'd be suffering at home, in cities, on planes, or any other populated place?
I'll bet dollars to doughnuts it's a mold problem in the school. My guess is stachybotrys. Look It up, the symptoms match perfectly.
Could there be any other explanation? Uh, well of course. Schools are hotbeds of spreading sickness, this is nothing new. For this to really mean something, how about they look at places that have a lot of wifi going on without all the germ spreading. Maybe they could look at dense urban areas that have a lot of wifi yet everyone lives in their own apartment and aren't picking their nose and then getting a drink from the water fountain.
School boards are so.... Yea.
Someone flopped a steamer in the gene pool.
Can you at least pretend to make a proper comparison instead of changing all the variables at once? Will humanity ever manage not to succumb to superstitions?
.. and they don't want to goto school.
And the parents happily shell out for their kid's iPhones, yet protest school board meetings against WiFi in schools.
The symptoms, which also include memory loss, trouble concentrating, skin rashes, hyperactivity, night sweats and insomnia
Thats funny I read about this as a kid.
'I cannot go to school today, ' Said little Peggy Ann McKay. 'I have the measles and the mumps, A gash, a rash and purple bumps. My mouth is wet, my throat is dry, I'm going blind in my right eye. My tonsils are as big as rocks, I've counted sixteen chicken pox And there's one more-that's seventeen, And don't you think my face looks green? My leg is cut-my eyes are blue- It might be instamatic flu. I cough and sneeze and gasp and choke, I'm sure that my left leg is broke- My hip hurts when I move my chin, My belly button's caving in, My back is wrenched, my ankle's sprained, My 'pendix pains each time it rains. My nose is cold, my toes are numb. I have a sliver in my thumb. My neck is stiff, my voice is weak, I hardly whisper when I speak. My tongue is filling up my mouth, I think my hair is falling out. My elbow's bent, my spine ain't straight, My temperature is one-o-eight. My brain is shrunk, I cannot hear, There is a hole inside my ear. I have a hangnail, and my heart is-what? What's that? What's that you say? You say today is...Saturday? G'bye, I'm going out to play! ' Shel Silverstein
Doctors do Massage in Longview WA now, who knew?
This is so ridiculous. It could be ANYTHING in the environment at these schools. Tainted water, Chinese drywall, toxic mold, contaminated food. The list is endless. But I can tell you one this it's not is the wi-fi.
"Besides Wi-Fi signals, could there possibly be any other logical explanation for kids having more symptoms of illness on school days than at home on weekends or in the summer?"
Yes, it is called "Believing shit that isn't real." Our minds can have powerful effects on our bodies and in particular on how we feel, since ultimately the mind is what does the feeling. So people believe that something causes a given set of symptoms, thus they experience those symptoms.
Happens all the time with the WiFi types. People have been up on the evils of "radiation" for a long time, WiFi is just their newest target.
Personally what I think the school needs to do is this: Tell people "Ok, for the next two weeks we are shutting down WiFi, you let us know if you get any better." However don't actually shut it off. Have the APs stop broadcasting SIDs and accepting connections, but leave the radios broadcasting at full power. Then after that say "Ok we are turning back on now, in a test mode, no data for two weeks. tell us if you feel worse." At this point shut the APs down completely.
At the end, when people say that during the "off" time they were fine and during the "on" time the problems came back, you get to reveal the test results and say STFU.
Seriously, if there is something to this WiFi thing how come we can't get any laboratory results on it? The answer to that is because there is nothing to it, it is all in the heads of the people who allegedly have the problems.
Remember when everyone was scared that cell phones would give you cancer?
Just because the U.S. is a republic does not mean it is not a democracy. Democracy/republic are not mutually exclusive.
It's no surprise that kids might feel or make more of symptoms when there is the possibility they could get out of doing something they'd rather not do. What I am surprised about is that people have noticed they are ill in school but not at home. There's about 8 wifi networks around my home, there's only *one* at work. The wifi is not the common denominator here.
Hmmm... I have 3 WiFi routers at home and have never been sick, Schools are also a hotbed for excuses. Starting with "My dog ate my homework" and now evolving into "The WiFi made me forget"
-Keith M
(Too lazy to sign up for an account)
How much do you want to bet that these concerned parents are credulous proponents of alternative medicine?
I can imagine their rapt attention at reading how much danger their kids are in, and they trust someone with MD after their name (as if it's not a diploma mill degree anyway) more than an engineer or physicist.
This whole subject is dominated by that folk etymology mentality where something that sounds smart and appeals to an aging housewife's intuition gets spread around at bridge games and finds its way into Reader's Digest or whatever checkout aisle trash they flip through on the toilet these days.
I saw a test where they tested the air quality in the classrooms. The amount of co2 was 4 times higher than allowed if it was a workplace. I don't know if classrooms in Ontario has just as bad ventilation though. :)
Right now every one of you is literally in a sea of radio and magnetic fields. Every TV, radio, cordless phone, cell phone, police radio, satellite signal, and WIFI is travelling through your body. Now all of those things are fine but suddenly WIFI just goes to far? I can expect such bullshit from this country with a team of lawyers waiting to sue, but Canada?
Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
That the bulk of the illnesses happen on test days.
Stress.
Sick building syndrome. (newer buildings this may be a real issue)
Kids want out of school and will lie about anything to get out.
You infected your kid with hypochondria.
Your kid is weak and the world is gonna kill him.
But wifi? really? mmmmmmmmm no. Maybe those kids should stay in school for a little more of science class and learn why this is COMPLETE BULLSHIT.
My guess, it's the parents. The parents want the children to be sick and press/force it upon the children to be sick. Its a common incident in lawsuits.
Parent: "Its ok, just tell me that your getting sick from the stuff at school. You don't need to hide it, just tell me."
Child: "But I'm fine, nothings wrong."
Parent: "Please, you shouldn't bottle these things up. Just tell me that its making you sick and I'll make it stop. Now please, don't hide these things from me."
Child: "But there really isn't anything wrong."
Parent: "Now we've talked about this, you don't need to keep secrets from me. Just tell me its making you sick because I know it is. So just be honest and go ahead and tell me its making you sick and then we can go have ice cream. And then we can talk to everyone about this because they will like to hear what you have to say."
Child after hearing they will get a reward and lots of positive attention for agreeing to claim it makes them sick: "Yes mommy, it makes me feel really ill and sick. Can we have that ice cream now?"
Keep instilling that its making them sick after a while mind over matter will happen and you'll have a child with a minor form of hypochondria that will claim its the school since they are getting rewards for it and lots of positive attention, the two things most children want it abundance.
Attention... all grammer nazi"s! Is they're anything; wrong with: my post,
Obviously it's the Wifi. There's nothing else on earth that's ever caused these symptoms in anyone, especially teenagers.
So, why are the /. interested? Is the mere mention of 'technology' enough to exceed the threshold of importance?
(Has Slashdot become a sewing circle?)
All True Believers come! Come and destroy the eVILLE! Worship the One True Religion of No Complicated Things!!!!
I'd go on a Vegan diet but the delivery time from Vega is too long. --brownkitty
Have they checked the air quality and ventilation of these buildings before ascribing blame to some new technology? Sick school syndrome is real and to blame for many of the symptoms believed to be caused by the offending gamma-powered wi-fi routers.
The real trouble here isn't the fact that they may remove wi-fi from the schools, although to be fair that would suck. The danger is that if some kids are experiencing actual symptoms like memory loss and rashes, the real cause goes ignored. Wi-fi as a scapegoat could wind up being a dangerous thing.
Reminds me of my childhood. In the first grade I learned if you stuck your finger in the back of your mouth you'd throw up. School was boring so you can guess what I did after lunch. The school and parents jumped to the conclusion that I was lactose intolerant.
In karmic retaliation it turned out my reactions to lactose intolerance medication was force than my attempts to get out of school. I soon made a miraculous recovery.
If none of the teacher's kids are suffering from this illness the school should turn off the Wi-Fi without telling anyone, or, perhaps, even just agree to turn it off. Keep it off till the symptoms vanish. Then turn it on quietly one day to see what happens.
including school work, home work, being around other sick children, etc. My question is why does this "problem" go largely unnoticed in US schools? I know personally once I was in high school, our network was wireless. Not only that, but my younger brother was in middle school ("jr. high") when they went wireless, meaning he's had at least 6 years exposed to wireless signals in school. And that's not even counting our home network which has been wireless for as long as wireless cards have been around. My verdict: LOL canada
Mr. America walk on by your schools that do not teach Mr. America walk on by the minds that won't be reached
Parents often have so high expectations of their kids, that they push them. In the end kids are so stressed that they develop those symptoms. And the worst thing is, they can also get AHDS and other bevahior problems, just because the parents are not able to aow thery kids to develop naturally. And because all the stress is connected to the school it is logical that they develop these symptoms when entering school.
And instead of giving our kids more time to grow, we give them ritalin so they head strait for the goals we set for them. We forgot that children are also humans and they have also freedom rights. And pushing them in certain directions and hoping their can fulfill our dreams we failed to fulfill is totally wrong. So do not rip out the WI-FI just give them more time.
And see if the kids still get sick.. Deetdeedeee Sigh...
How many of these kids parents have cordless phones at home?
A common problem in several countries is the indoor-environment that often gives this kind of problems. Common in schools,day-care centers and offices where a combination of higher than normal temperatures, poor ventilation and sometimes a poor building that has accumulated fungus in walls, attic or flooring due to poor construction practicies and poor materials. The fungus is irritating, can cause rashes, headaces and be a root cause for astma.
Improve ventilation, keep the temperature comfortable, and send in a building sanitation team in to check any fungus problems.
Chack this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sick_building_syndrome
If it's not WiFi, I would look at substance abuse. Caffeine produces pretty much all of those effects. I imagine young people are more susceptible to the side-effects, and I've read other articles mentioning quite a spike in caffeine poisoning in schools. I know my high school had products like UpShot (pretty much pure caffeine diluted in as little liquid as possible); there are caffeine candy bars, No Doz, any number of energy drinks and coffee. And these are things that are also largely unavailable in the home.
I would bet they don't feel anything when they are at home using their wireless routers to play WoW =p
Do the donkeys on slashdot ever stop to think they are being manipulated by corporate interests? Anonymous reader posts link to an anti-wifi story with a leading question at the end of this comments. Hmmm...I smell a corporate rat. BULLSHIT ON YOU.
The lady who made them do it was feeling a lot better, and didn't have headaches anymore, until she saw me surfing wirelessly using a router located on the floor below. Signal strength was still perfectly fine...
Any other constant RF signal source. That means all cell phones, cordless phones, etc. In fact, it's likely that any reasonably nearby radio station has a signal strength greater than that of a wifi hub more than a few feet away.
Clearly to be safe they need to build a 10 million dollar faraday cage around every school.
If some kids are loading up on soda at home during the weekends, and then going without if the schools don't service it, it could very well be caffeine withdrawal.
Wi-Fi is the obvious culprit. The spectral evidence is clear and this apparently isn't the first time it's caused problems in children...
http://www.salemweb.com/memorial/chronology.shtml
When I was in elementary school, the only class I could stand was gym class. So, I would stick it out through the day until gym class, after which I would develop serious symptoms that demanded I be sent home. As it so happened, gym almost always was scheduled directly after lunch. I was a good enough actor that my symptoms usually got attention even if they didn't get me sent home, which led to all sorts of theories about why I was mysteriously sick, usually focusing on the food that I ate for lunch... all sorts of allergies and intolerances were postulated, and more than once my parents got furiously angry at various administrators for the food they were serving in the cafeteria. Eventually, somebody realized what was really going on, and it all got quietly dropped.
So in conclusion, kids will pretend to be sick to get out of school, and parents will come up with crazy theories to avoid concluding that's what's going on.
Change all the wifi to non-broadcasting so nobody can see that there's WiFi (without a proper sniffer). If people say the problem is fixed after that, then you know they were faking or it was all in their heads.
Parents often have so high expectations of their kids, that they push them. In the end kids are so stressed that they develop those symptoms. And the worst thing is, they can also get AHDS and other bevahior problems, just because the parents are not able to aow thery kids to develop naturally. And because all the stress is connected to the school it is logical that they develop these symptoms when entering school.
And instead of giving our kids more time to grow, we give them ritalin so they head strait for the goals we set for them. We forgot that children are also humans and they have also freedom rights. And pushing them in certain directions and hoping their can fulfill our dreams we failed to fulfill is totally wrong. So do not rip out the WI-FI just give them more time.
Parents have to. With today's World Wide Competition for everything, being average or even above average means a life of low wages.
It's no longer good enough to do well and go to college. A kid has to be the best and go to the best schools to climb the social ladder or even stay where their parents are socioeconomically.
We in the West are now in this downward spiral and an education and hard work isn't good enough anymore. There are tens of millions of people who are smarter and willing to work harder to get out of their poverty.
Got a Ph.D. in Electrical Engineering? Not good enough. A company like Intel will still offshore that work too because they can get an Indian for a third the wage, he'll work more hours, and kiss their ass for the opportunity. He doesn't give a shit about leisure: he can now feed his extended family. MD? Medical tourism: and even then, there are some innovations being done in Asia that will increase physician productivity greatly - read they're salaries will come down. Lawyer? Contracts are being done in India. The only profession immune is politician and anything related to military: soldier or defense contractor - then again there's a bunch of laid off Lockheed workers that would disagree with that.
There's a lot of people in this World making labor, regardless of skill, a commodity. And as someone long ago said here on /., there's a lot of poverty to be exported out of those countries.
RIP America
July 4, 1776 - September 11, 2001
Happens all of the time. Difficult to treat. These parents will not be easily appeased.
I don't read your sig. Why are you reading mine?
A simple test: switch off WiFi for the first week of term without telling anyone. See if the number of complaints changes.
This is the real problem right here:
So no real hard evidence, just "concern". When are the experts going to take responsibility for giving clear and fact based advice. Wait, oh here it is: Magda Havas' homepage where it seems clear to me she has already made up her mind in advance and is very vocal about publicising herself. I'm surprised she's not out there campaigning against water fluoridation and wearing clothes made from mixed fibres.
Another case of healthy people becoming patients due to the attribution of a very normal phenomenon (kids making up symptoms to avoid school) to some new cause.
That all seems fine, but that sciency stuff really hurts people's brain and they'll have nothing to do with that ghastly business of evidence. We've also discussed this recently: http://news.slashdot.org/story/10/05/28/1740208/The-Scientific-Impotence-Excuse
My sig is better than your sig.
Why is it that every upvoted post is "technology 1, humans 0!"
If these people don't want wifi, that's none of our business. As long as a democratic majority vote for it, let them turn it off. Crazy or not it's still their choice.
If we are to be true to the scientific method and rise above dogmatic beliefs then we have to give them the benefit of the doubt, no matter how slim the odds. If it's all in their heads then that's all the more reason to give them what they want.
Nuff said. Besides when these kids are home, they're probably already getting hit with plenty of EM radiation from other sources such as cell towers, radio and television broadcasts, etc.
Check the kids for scabies.
... puberty!
...otherwise many of their cordless phones would be emitting the same "wifi" signals that wireless routers do.
Perhaps the children are suffering from stress caused by video game, Internet, phone, and texting withdrawals at school.
Are you perhaps employed in education or related to someone who is?
The way you say "not just students in there"...
Makes it seem that students are not really "people" - more like cattle or furniture or some other lower form of life.
You know... Like there are people who work for a living in schools, and then there are students.
From my experience, that sounds a lot like thinking of someone being closely connected to that sector.
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
Lets see if they're still against wireless when little Jimmy's data charges come in after he's not able to abuse the school wifi and has to pay for downloading his music videos over his smartphone.
If any construction or remodeling has been done lately then new building syndrome should be considered. Cabinets, desks and carpets all outgas some pretty weird shit the first year (formaldehyde, vinyl derivatives, etc.), Even some kinds of paint and vinyl wallpapers can be pretty rough on young bodies.
Hmm... I suspect that Wi-Fi has no such effect, but am curious as to whether my suspicion is correct, so I propose the following experiment. Prepare a questionaire for the pupils to give to their parents, asking whether their child experience appear to be suffering from this condition, when in the week the symptoms appear, when in the weekend they disappear, and how constantly they appear (i.e. does the child experience the symptoms every day at school, or only some), whether the child experiences symptoms the previous week, whether they disappeared during the weekend, and whether they reappeared during Monday. On Monday disable the wireless without letting the children or the parents know. At the end of the day hand out these questionaires and require that they be filled in and returned the next morning.
This experiment won't tell you if the alleged illness it real or not, but it will give you a good idea of whether the speculative link between the symptoms and Wi-Fi is valid, and goes a long way towards due diligence should anyone take the school to court.
Via IRC :
Exposed to deadly WiFi radiation, young Peter Parker finds himself
with all the powers of a wireless network device... and all the problems of a
high school student!
Must... route... packets... Gwen Stacy's life... in balance... musn't
let Aunt May's Facebook page... go down.... ARGHHH!
Kids don't want to go to school. I know I didn't when I was a kid and I was even good at school. I was always happy for an excuse to stay home from school. Didn't often work for me, since mom was a teacher and fairly clever, but still.
So kid doesn't want to go to school says "But mom, I feel sick!" and make up some symptoms. Mom says ok and lets them stay home. Mom notices that these symptoms only happen when the kid has been going to school. Never on the weekend, never during summer. Mom goes and looks them up online, rather than asking a doctor, and finds the anti-WiFi nutters. She says "Oh my god, this must be it!" The kid, of course, latches on to it as it means less time in school.
I'm sure it is a combination of these two as well as others (like kids who legitimately feel like crap in school because of stress). It all adds up to a manufactured panic about WiFi.
Hell maybe I should get in on this! In recent years, as WiFi has rolled out all over work, I've had less energy than I used to. I am tired easier, and seem to just be over all a bit slower than I was. Not drastic, but noticeable. Must be the WiFi... ...
or maybe the fact that I'm 30, and have gained weight. Nah, couldn't be that, must be the WiFi.
of an old WPA poster
http://vintagraph.com/wpa-posters/health-and-safety-posters/2453427
Game: Player 'Donald J Trump' now has AI skill level 'experimental'.
Does this mean that these "unfortunates" have no WiFi at home? I suggest that it may be that is the cause - either poverty or parental dislike of anythink more technical than a wind-up alarm clock.
I'll see your Constitution and raise you a Queen.
My high school was 80+ years old when I was going there.
At some point some students noticed that the school water tasted funny.
Somebody took a sample of the water and had the local university analyze it.
The next week, we were banned from drinking from the water fountains and water colors were put in place.
I am sure we had mold problems in some areas.
Once in a while a sound proofing tile would smack a slacker awake, always a hoot.
It was reconstructed shortly afterward.
Before these parents start blaming radio waves for the sickness they should have the health department check the school out.
Good work who ever put that one together. ;-)
I always found that I was sensitive to the 60hz headache from fluorescent lighting as a kid.
racing heart rate...trouble concentrating, hyperactivity, night sweats and insomnia,
Attractive teachers could explain a lot of these symptoms.
And that is why they don't have these problems at home (cue the 'your mom' jokes in 3...2...1...)
Despite electromagnetism being many times stronger than gravity at close range (for an illustration of this, pick up a paperclip with a small magnet... the small magnetic field is counteracting the much larger gravitational field of the entire planet), if RF signals as one part of the EM spectrum have THIS strong a wide-field (the school) effect, wouldn't many other parts of the electromagnetic spectrum, ranging from longwave to microwave to visible light, induce other kinds of effects? We evolved in a world bombarded by all kinds of electromagnetic radiation, the vast majority of which our senses cannot detect.
I smell a teenage conspiracy to avoid school... or at least some other, much more plausible cause at work.
You think WIFI gets a bad rap in Ontario... just look at Wind Generation - http://www.google.com/search?q=wind+power+health+ontario
There's a guy over here in Germany who managed to get on national TV with his "electromagnetic sensitivity".
During a 30 minute program, one thing was blatantly absent, or maybe that's just because I've got a science education: An actual test. You know, a double-blind test or something. Put him in a room that's a faraday cage with nothing emitting signals inside whatsoever, but don't tell him. See if he gets sick. Bring 20 high-power Wifi routers, cellphone towers, whatever you have, to his mobile home in the woods, again without telling him, and see if he falls sick.
My guess? He'll be "sick" in the first case, and totally fine in the 2nd, because it's all in his head. Probably not even conscious, so I kind of pity him. A bit.
Same with these kids. Turn off all Wifi in the school for a week without telling anyone, well without telling the kids or the parents. Check if anything changes. If it doesn't, then it's not the Wifi, end of story.
Too much talk going on, too little verification.
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
As an alumnus of Lakehead University, I can say with some degree of (conspiracy theory) authority that this ban wasn't instituted over health concerns, but budgetary ones. Lakehead is poorly managed and the maintenance budget quite inadequate. There were frequently garbage cans set out through various buildings to catch the water leaking from the roof. How does this apply to Wi-Fi? Well, most of the buildings there are masonry construction. I'm not quite sure what it is - something similar to cinder block, though. If all of the walls (including inside walls) are masonary, Wi-Fi signal propagation is going to be horrid. At that point, you need to add a separate access point in each classroom. That costs money.
Someone should try this at their job:
Employee: "Sir, I don't think I am going to come in today, I am feeling a bit crappy"
Boss: "Okay see you tomorrow. Get well soon."
Next day
Employee: "Sir, I still feel like crap, coming in later."
Boss: "Okay, get well soon."
A few more days pass
Employee: "Sir, still feeling ill on this end, I think it's the WiFi signals at the office that make me feel like this."
Boss: "Okay, thanks for the info. Go ahead and go home. In fact, don't bother coming back either. We'll mail your final paycheck to you. We wouldn't want you to have to come in and get affected by any of those damn WiFi signals."
Seriously, the biggest danger to these kids is instilling the habit that lame excuses can force their surrounding environment to adapt to them. If you raise a bunch of kids with the idea that complaining about WiFi can get them out of school, their first manager post graduation is going to pull his hair out trying to deal with 'em.
Motorcycles, Robots, Space Gossip and More!
... has claimed this as proof against the theory of evolution. "If Darwin's theory was correct, school children would have evolved to enjoy Wi-Fi signals," said the school nurse, while casting out evil spirits from a sick child into a swine. "It's a punishment being inflicted by our designer in his infinite wisdom," cooed the principal. "It works much better than detention," he added. The school technology officer was unavailable for comments, as she was being burned at the stake for witchcraft.
Oh damn! I think we have that where I work. I'll forward this on to my boss to explain why I won't be there on Monday.
Are you sure they're not in fact contracting a real illness because they live in a sterile, sheltered little bubble at home and have no immune system as a result?
Nothing mysterious so far:
Studies have shown a clear coincidence between health problems and the setup of mobile network towers. No coincidence has been shown yet between the beginning of operation of that tower and health problems. Already the presence of that tower caused health problems. What we see is the evil brother of the placebo-effect: the nocebo-effect. Once people start expecting a negative health impact, the probability for such goes through the roof. It's a self fullfilling prophecy. By claiming a negative health effect of technology X, one can be measured.
Unluckily being just a nocebo-effect doesn't mean it's no real harm. People have been known to intentionally overdose a placebo (not knowing it was just a placebo, during a controlled medication study) in an effort to commit suicide and came pretty close to actually dying.
Trying to discuss those issues with concerned parents is a waste of time. For them it is still a "risk to be eliminated". You can really strain relations with them by trying to explain that "driving them to school in a car" is a much bigger risk.
CU, Martin
It's amazing. 100% of the houses of all "school shooters" contain toothpaste. Yet nobody has demanded that toothpaste be banned because it causes school shootings.
Its FM signals... or TV signals. Or that evil light radiation from the daytime star!
Content Filter Sensitivity Syndrome. There have been low levels of this syndrome since the introduction of content filters, but the numbers were limited due to low exposure (typically 0.5 to 1 hour of computer access per day). With the introduction of Wi-Fi in a school, the exposure is vastly increased as children start connecting with their own devices (up to 6 hours per day).
Exactly. I, for one, am sick and tired of the 'blame everybody but the self' mentality that pervades society. It creeps up more and more everyday. I don't know how the Canadian legal system works, but wouldn't the burden of proof lie with the parents? Can they cite one study, just one fracking conclusive study that proves that it is these routers and acess points causing the children, oh the poor freaking children's ailments? Seriously. Show me one study where it has been positively shown that signals that fall in the range of the wifi consortium jurisdiction are causing people to get sick. Prove it. Prove it. Prove it. Evidence, or GTFO.
And people wonder why education gets worse. These damn parents are so sue happy, they just attack attack attack the schools every damn opportunity that presents itself. So the schools become so hamstrung in bureaucratic idiocy that they are afraid to do anything because some snot-nose little johnny's parents might sue.
This. Two things. Taking personal responsibility and the scientific method. The sooner society actually adopts these two solid mentalities, the better off we all will be. Until then this world will continue to be run amok by victimized-its-not-my-fault-blame-the-world-can-i-get-some-money-too asshats.
End rant.
'We are trying to prove ourselves wrong as quickly as possible, because only in that way can we find progress.' RPF
I don't know about you but when I went to school during the day, they didn't allow me to sleep during class hours.
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
I KNOW that they are human beings who are supposed to be being EDUCATED in those institutions.
Quality of said education being joined responsibility of their teachers, their parents AND the society as a whole.
As for reality...
The only thing that keeps me marginally sane is the fact that I am marginally in-sane.
Which sure helps all those times when you find yourself on the wrong side of the mirror.
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
Because that is what has been killing me at my new job. Buzzing and flickering at the noticeable frequency your peripherals pick up. Im going with that
also taking some from previous posters, just to supply them on a single list:
Stress
dislike of school (psychosomatic)
school water
school food
lack of oxygen
air pollutants
radiation of various kinds other than wireless
actual illness that only manifests symptoms when combined with something else on this list
lighting (seems unlikely but added for completeness)
please feel free to add to this
The only possible explanation is that a computer virus has jumped more than the species barrier to infect humans! No doubt related of the computer virus used to infect the Borg in Star Trek: Voyager! That's it! It's spread by writers! Kill them, kill them all before it's too late!
The first things that come to my mind when I hear those symptoms are reactions to artificial colours and preservatives used in foods. I'd be looking closely at what's on the shelves in the school's tuck shop/canteen.
I just wonder just what sort of "health hazard" this guy has and who is spreading such disinformation. Plenty of other electrical devices, such as a household microwave, emit just as much EM radiation in the 2.4 GHz range as an 802.11 AP. In fact, spending a year within the interference range of an 802.11 AP exposes you to as much radio energy as having a cell phone conversation that lasts only a few minutes.
When I was half-way through high school we had air scrubbers installed because the air quality was so bad. It was in a large, 2-story "relocatable" building that has since been torn down. The first few years, before the scrubbers were installed, everyone wondered why all the kids would be more sleepy in that building than in the main building. Turns out that the CO2 levels were through the roof. On another note, my wife has ADD. She swears that the florescent lighting in school would give her headaches and make it impossible for her to concentrate. My point is, there are probably a dozen reasons for what these people describe, but WiFi just isn't going to be one of them.
...it's a wireless manbearpig nearby
Here's the thought process
1) Wifi manufacturers have deep pockets
2) Invent illness
3) Blame on Wifi
4) Sue wifi manufacturers
Now imagine what may happen when schools turn them on.
I wonder how many of the "concerned parents" switched back to wired networking at home.
Clarke's Third Law States that any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. People have always mistrusted technology and blamed it for all their ailments.
P.S - Wearing a tin foil hat will shield your brain from the malicious Wi-fi signals!!!
Symptoms are a match for a Sick Building Syndrome, one cause is believed to be nasties growing in air conditioning or in damp-exposed building materials, and general poor indoor air quality.
OFTOMH around 25% of individuals are genetically pre-disposed to be sensitive to mold, provoking asthma and other immune disorders. Something in this school is provoking these reactions in these kids, first guess should be air quality.
At risk of being redundant others have pointed out here symptoms are also a match for stress and anxiety. So we're probably looking at a basket of different causes for physiological symptoms at school.
All these things have a scientifically valid basis and a are pretty demonstrable out in the real world, whereas Wi-Fi electro-sensitivity does not.
After logging in slashdot still does not take you back to the page you were on. It's been that way for 20 years.
"could there possibly be any other logical explanation for kids having more symptoms of illness on school days?" Yeah, how about psycho-somatic?
I live in Barrie, Ontario, and the people who sent a brochure about the wifi heath risk have their website here.
I lol'd over it at first (and the symptoms claimed by the children) before getting pretty angry about the whole prospect of banning it. While I have no doubt children claimed these illnesses, so did everyone when I was in elementary school. Kids don't like school. This is well established.
And of course parents are always looking for tech to blame, and hypocritically will blame wifi when they have no problem with it at home, nor with their microwave ovens or radios. Gah.
have there been any research as to why those kids are are having those symptoms, i think not, could be anything from bad cafeteria food to asbestos. try finding out what caused it before the old folks place a ban on fresh air.
I used to get that, it was technically before wifi. I guess it was like a premonition or something.
Come to think of it, that's probably what gets to me on Mondays too.
If so the hypocrisy would be monumental. Maybe dressing their kids in tin foil would alleviate their concerns.
Tomorrow is another day...
Poor construction resources (ie-Asbestos, etc), and cleaning chemicals, could be a cause for kids getting 'sick'. I remember breaking out in rashes sometimes at schools or jobs, and it was usually due to heavy duty cleaning chemicals. Also, some kids just dont bath
they should be playing vollyball or something similar between classes. even going for the odd run.
there is a hormone associated with regulation of appetite via _exercise_ and fasting called ghrelin, which may directly or through other hormones such as vasopressin/adh influence mental processes.
"Besides Wi-Fi signals, could there possibly be any other logical explanation for kids having more symptoms of illness on school days than at home on weekends or in the summer?" :-(
Vitamin D deficiency could help explain this.
Treatment details: http://www.vitamindcouncil.org/treatment.shtml
Why the US RDA is ten times too low: http://www.vitamindcouncil.org/vitaminDPhysiology.shtml
Vitamin D deficiency also may contribute to autism: http://www.vitamindcouncil.org/health/autism/autism-information.shtml
Basically, between long school days, more TV and video games at home, driving instead of walking, fears of the outdoors and stranger abductions, and dermatologists saying to fear the sun (but not suggesting adequate vitamin D supplements as essentially malpractice), most kids are vitamin D deficient. Vitamin D is involved in the regulation of thousands of genes. Delete a big chunk of your genome and see how you feel.
A 21st century issue: the irony of technologies of abundance in the hands of those still thinking in terms of scarcity.
Gee, that sounds just like the side effects of Riddlin.
Ahh junk science, nobody loves me like you do...
Assume there is an equal probability of getting ill on any given day.
Assume you spend 5/7 days at school, 2/7 days at home.
There is a 71% chance of getting sick on a school day, but only a 29% chance on the weekend.
This neglects that you are more likely to get ill when you have less sleep (weekdays), you are more likely to get sick when you are surrounded by ill peers, you want to get sick when it allows you to miss school.
In a recent development, researchers have found that school makes kids violently and inexplicably sick. Victims of this epidemic complained that "their stomach hurts real bad" and "the nurse said I should play video games until I feel better".
The in-depth multi-year study has also found that 9 out of 10 cancer victims had attended grade school at least once in their life. The surgeon general strongly advises parents to pull their kids out of class indefinitely to reduce the risk of getting cancer 70 years later (or a job).
In other news, a leading computer engineer proposed the shocking theory that "kids are little lying sacks of shit", with the corollary that "school administrators are big lying sacks of shit". Sources confirm the scientist has long maintained a habit of divulging unsavory facts and opinions on various internet forums. CmdrTaco was unavailable for comment.
-Billco, Fnarg.com
I'd bet it is a mold problem over RF induced illness because mold actually exists.
“Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
"Besides Wi-Fi signals, could there possibly be any other logical explanation for kids having more symptoms of illness on school days than at home on weekends or in the summer?"
Industrial soaps/cleaners? Fluorescent lighting? Being around your peers instead of family? And in the case of "headaches to dizziness and nausea and even racing heart rates", how about stress from studying/tests/exams/etc? As for the allergy part, what about mould, dust and fungi in the ductwork? Have those buildings had an air quality test recently?
Also... Insomnia? All of the "wifi allergy" reports I read noted that the afflicted could tell when a router was turned on/off. Unless they're sleeping in class (or trying to), and it was infact a "wifi allergy", how would this be noticeable?
Wi-Fi Illness doesn't exist, but apparently, stupidity illness does, and it's spreading.
The Internet has given stupid people the resources of intelligent people.
... mental health concerns, that is. These children and parents need to be committed to mental institutions, because they are just plain crazy.
I was wondering when my hometown would get a mention on Slashdot. Too bad I still live here...
It's not like we eat solid foods which contain all kinds of minerals.
...turn off SSID broadcast and change the SSIDs so students phones/laptops/whatever don't see them anymore, for the most part.
Then tell them you turned it all off. Problem solved.
How can parents take responsibility if the kids really are getting sick at school, other than forcing the school to take action?
It's pretty unlikely that it's due to Wifi, but other people have given other suggestions, such as a mold problem, lack of oxygen due to bad circulation, and so on. It doesn't seem at all unlikely that it's an environmental issue.
A lot of people believe that EM spectrum radiation is harmful in many different ways.
We can either fight them on every front they raise or we can agree with them that there MIGHT be such a danger. People have believed this since the introduction of electricity, so thinking that someone we are going to convince these people they are wrong just isn't going to happen. It has nothing to do with ignorance or some peculiar regligious belief - it is just a belief in something beyond current knowledge.
Besides, how the heck does anyone really know what we don't know yet? The real answer is nobody knows. It is unlikley, even incredibly unlikely, but there is no way to convince people that it couldn't be happening.
We aren't talking about WiFi routers alone. Every source of EM radiation is suspect, down to the level of detectability. If it can be detected, then it is possible that it is having some kind of unknown effect. Probable? No. But just barely possible. And it doesn't necessarily have to affect everyone, just those that are somehow sensitive.
What needs to be understood is until this is dealt with on a human (not just scientific probability) level, it is going to continue to prevent construction of EM-emitting objects. Like power transmission lines. And cell towers. And there will be complaints about every device like a WiFi router.
How would such proof be managed? I don't know. But I do know that fighting individual battles over Wifi routers, cell towers, radio stations, power lines and every other sort of EM-emitting device is pointless. The non-believing majority will lose out to the minority that believes. As Mr. Obama said just recently, we are a country of religious freedom and it would be wrong to unfairly oppress a religious minority that believes WiFi is harmful. At least without absolute proof that they are wrong.
Um, I think you misspelled "not WiFi, period".
The waves. They do nothing.
No sig today...
If the sample size is large enough the school could try turning off wifi as quitely as possible for a while and see if it makes a difference. Unfortunatly conducting a conclusive study of this sort is ususally difficult to work through without committing statistical sins.
My money is on other factors (poor air circulation, neglected filters, mold in ductwork, depression related to having to go to school, school food, germs, loosers..etc.) however EM sensitivity is a real biological effect. It is undisputed people can have severe adverse reaction to EM signals transmitted in close proximity. Intensity of signals drops off with square of distance so locality WRT to emitting source is critically important. Many posters here look at the totality of signals being broadcast and wrongfully conclude because radio signals are pervasive Wifi's effect is irrelevent. Wifi's contribution to kids getting sick may very well be irrelevent but as a separate matter it does not make the way you arrived at your conclusion any less wrong.
Well the comments to this are ignorant to the point of being laughable. When a small portion of the population has medical problems its always seen as fake by those too stupid or lazy to do the research.
If this is so far fetched, what about the cases of electric alergies? I know there are several in my provence, people who can not be near any sort of powered device because it causes INTENSE pain in their heads worse than any headache.
Its stupid to think that some people cant perceve things others cant. I myself cant stand to be near any old CRT equipment because I can hear a high pitched wine and it causes headaches. Of course, it took years before anyone would listen to me because of ignorace and lazyness of the people I asked to help.
To anyone who will not invistigate this, I say shame on you.
Being one of the techies in my 34 household community, I was asked by a couple of member to look into the potential dangers of WiFi. It was actually pretty interesting.
Spoiler: In the end I recommended we do very little to change our WiFi network.
For those interested in a more detailed exploration of the topic than a variant of the trite "Oh those rascally kids... always trying to get out of school" dismissal of the idea, there's a great set of research on the potential dangers of WiFi and similar EMF available through the bioinitative (google it). Sadly, what once was a free site now charges $2 (with the weak excuse that this is to cover costs.... in which case a $0.05 charge per user would likely do).
The report gave summaries of several hundred experiments to determine potential risks from a variety of signals ranging across the EM spectrum. Quite a few of the conclusions gave good grounds for further research.
The problem is that most of these studies are still in the early stages - hundreds of experiments into different aspects of the potential dangers, with very little duplication as of yet. It may turn out that there is legitimate cause for concern, but at present it all comes down to how one uses the precautionary principle.
I think the bottom line is that when we listen carefully to such concerns, do the research, and use a reasonably scientific approach, the results are better than a pat answer.
Those who jump on the "Someone says WiFi must be dangerous so it clearly IS" bandwagon are no more or less ignorant or reasoning in their approach than those jumping on the "I've never heard of WiFi being dangerous and its handy, so clearly these people are crazy" bandwagon.
Those claiming kids faking sickness to get out of school is nothing new might want to find out:
- Is there a spike in the reported symptoms? (after all... kids can fake the flu anytime)
- Does the spike coincide with a change in the wifeless, or with a change in the wireless being known about by the kids... or with a spike once the first kid went home sick?
It could be kids playing hookie. It could be other environmental factors. It could be a placebo effect (particularly with all the hype). But dismissing it off the bat is no more sensible than refusing to look through Galileo's telescope because you already KNOW there can't be any moons there....
Or in knowing a historical event happened because some folks said it did - http://bedejournal.blogspot.com/2006/11/who-refused-to-look-through-galileos.html
Would be my first pick. You're in a fairly enclosed space with hundreds of other people who have any number of diseases. It's not like they sterilize the desks after every class. Even in a typical office you tend to sit at the same desk; school kids are all over the place. A public school is like a virus playground.
Having said that, maybe someone should do a big study on exposure to non-natural electromagnetic fields. Humans evolved exposed to the sun and the planet, etc... it makes sense to me that we evolved to deal with that. But it's only been in the last 100 years or so that our technology has exposed us to high power radio stations, wireless access points, even keeping a little radio in your pocket so you can call your friends. Who doesn't have a cell these days? High tension power lines have only really existed for 100 years too, the tin-foil hatters say they cause cancer, but the reality is that no one really knows.
Bibo Ergo Sum.
I totally agree.
Anyone knows (has it ever been asked?) how many parents have switched off or removed their WiFi routers because of this? And asked their neigbours to do the same?
I doubt any would do so.
I doubt many would think about that in the first place.
It makes me think of the "wait until we actually switch it on!" remark by some telecoms exec about a newly built GSM mast that caused lots of illnesses nearby.
"There will be no Wi-Fi connectivity provided in those areas of the university already served by hard wire connectivity until such time as the potential health effects have been scientifically rebutted or there are adequate protective measures that can be taken," says Lakehead's policy on Wi-Fi and cellular antennae.
Here's an idea, have the students wear fucking tin-foil hats.
I can't speak for all schools, but my old middle school had horrible water. I actually did a side-by-side microscope comparison of fresh-from-the-tap to mudwater, and the school had more bacteria. Less sediment, but still more bacteria.
First time a teacher regretted me actually doing my homework.
Cafeteria Food?
Perhaps the school cut the food budget to pay for the routers and the the leftover poutine is tainted.
Besides Wi-Fi? Are you serious? As if wi-fi is in any way a legitimate reason!
I tend to agree BUT am also reminded that smoking used to be recommended by doctors... well people in lab coats anyway.
DDT? Perfectly harmless.
History has shown time and time again that mankind has been perfectly capable of doing harmfull stuff claiming there was no scienfitic evidence against it by stomping very hard on scientists trying to proof it.
Are you just a smoker who denies the existence of lung cancer? Hard to say isn't it? 50 years from now, you might be as laughible as the people who claimed smoking was good for your health.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
Pesticide, because it sure as hell isn't radio waves making those poor children ill.
All the symptoms match up, the vector is likely pesticide/fungicide at the school.
To the first politician in the USA that can succeed in an awareness campaign about the dangers of Wi-Fi signals to the point that graduate students looking for a thesis can score gobs of money and prestige by gathering evidence supporting it.
This is awesome. This is how global economic power trades hands - as the west frets over various hypothetical, low-probability risks to long-term health, you can observe developing nations (china, india) cramming their schools and govt with wifi, everyone has a cellphone at their crotch, digging mercury out of recycled components and melting plastic indoors. Who cares if <1% of the population gets a brain cloud and dies from bleeding out of their eyes, when the net result is schools with technology and a workforce with practical skills? Those Ontario parents sound like a bunch of spoiled, luddite surrender-monkeys. I, for one, etc., etc...
This whole thing reminds me of a poem...
Sick
'I cannot go to school today, '
Said little Peggy Ann McKay.
'I have the measles and the mumps,
A gash, a rash and purple bumps.
My mouth is wet, my throat is dry,
I'm going blind in my right eye.
My tonsils are as big as rocks,
I've counted sixteen chicken pox
And there's one more-that's seventeen,
And don't you think my face looks green?
My leg is cut-my eyes are blue-
It might be instamatic flu.
I cough and sneeze and gasp and choke,
I'm sure that my left leg is broke-
My hip hurts when I move my chin,
My belly button's caving in,
My back is wrenched, my ankle's sprained,
My 'pendix pains each time it rains.
My nose is cold, my toes are numb.
I have a sliver in my thumb.
My neck is stiff, my voice is weak,
I hardly whisper when I speak.
My tongue is filling up my mouth,
I think my hair is falling out.
My elbow's bent, my spine ain't straight,
My temperature is one-o-eight.
My brain is shrunk, I cannot hear,
There is a hole inside my ear.
I have a hangnail, and my heart is-what?
What's that? What's that you say?
You say today is...Saturday?
G'bye, I'm going out to play! '
Shel Silverstein
It seems to be a textbook case of delusional disease. This meme of wifi illness got out there, and now certain people are prone to believing it, and propagating it.
No, nothing to do with alternative medicine, they're just credulous whiners who want attention and don't feel special any more. This gives them something to focus their otherwise idle useless attention on. My wife has decided to move her alarm clock 4 feet away from the bed - it's one of them fancy sunlight-sunrise-simulator things - because she thinks the power cord disrupts her sleep - we had to move the telephone in the adjacent office because its cable ran along the same wall. She's a good girl, but there's sometimes no talking sense to some people - they're fixated on their own suffering, and god help anyone trying to take that away from them. It's just like Smith said in the Matrix: "You human beings define your lives by your suffering".
Now I understand.
Its obvious the school superintendent must be right. All you have to do is read /. if you want proof of the brain damaging effects of electromagnetic radiation.
Exactly. I, for one, am sick and tired of the 'blame everybody but the self' mentality that pervades society.
To be fair... They are really on to something more profound.
You are limited by your genetics... Or at least being human. You know... Being programmed to want sex, eat, sleep, feel sensations or emotions that get in the way.
You are programmed with 300 million years of evolution which most people are not aware of (much less actually fight).
And you are sometimes limited by the language and ideas that you were taught with.
I mean... Would you blame someone who grew up in the 1400's in believing in witches?
I already used this once tonight but I'll use the concept again.
If you had a yummy fish and you threw it at a bear, and the bear ate it... Would you get mad at the bear for not using self control?
Of course not (well most of us), its what bears do. Now going along with this though...
Humans are also like bears. We are both animals so somethings that we do, we can't help because thats what we've been raised to do, or taught, or just through instinct.
Or lack thereof...
Now I'm not saying that free will doesn't exist and that everyone is blameless, but rather if we looked at human behavior problems as you would an animal or as an evolutionary, then things get a lot clearer...
Because you know how to fix it.
"I am the king of the Romans, and am superior to rules of grammar!"
-Sigismund, Holy Roman Emperor (1368-1437)
I don't know how the Canadian legal system works, but wouldn't the burden of proof lie with the parents? Can they cite one study, just one fracking conclusive study that proves that it is these routers and acess points causing the children, oh the poor freaking children's ailments? Seriously. Show me one study where it has been positively shown that signals that fall in the range of the wifi consortium jurisdiction are causing people to get sick. Prove it. Prove it. Prove it. Evidence, or GTFO.
No, you see, that is the beauty of democracy - you don't need proof, nor even evidence. You just need to convince a majority of people.
We've just had part of a school reform fall through here, despite all credible evidence supporting it. A good campaign and some bullshit bingo will carry you a long way, and often longer than all this difficult "evidence" thing. Heck, most of the people allowed to vote couldn't read a good study, much less comprehend it, and don't even talk about discerning a credible study from a bullshit made-up one.
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
wait till we turn the equipment on!
Do you get paid by the carriage return?
The school should turn off the Wi-Fi for a couple weeks, but don't tell anyone they did. Then ask again if children are still feeling the effects. Parents will be forced to admit it's not the WiFi once it's no longer an available cause and youngsters are still complaining.
Look, this is an idiotic move. Anybody with more than about 85 IQ points and a modicum of education in the Scientific Method could concoct any number of test scenarios that would logically rule in/out Wifi. What's retarded about this situation is that we have educators (who are responsible for teaching the children Science, among other subjects) who are going along with this idiocy.
I have no problem with your religion until you decide it's reason to deprive others of the truth.
Too many RedBulls I say...
Sounds to me like some of their cleaning supplies might have changed.
But hey, lets blame the new tech, since it's works like magic, and the chemicals we use are based on good science.
Be seeing you...
It is the disgustingly toxic school food, pesticides, lead paint, asbestos, or poor treatment by faculty that cause these symptoms. Or the water that tastes like piss out of drinking fountains, or the treatment like prisoners for no reason. Enough to drive anyone to experience psychosomatic effects and lose all motivation and drive to live.
They say all children profile like psychopaths before they leave high school. I can tell you why, anyone living in the bullshit environment forced unto people until they are legally an adult will drive you fucking nuts. Did that maybe ever occur to anyone? That metal detectors, fully armed sherifs and security guards authorized to use force every 10 feet? Or maybe it is the getting thrown in a cold dark room for a week because you got beaten up, and zero tolerance says that counts as a violent offence? Maybe being forced to memorize out of context information out of logical order and without being taught its applications or purpose? Maybe if schools actually treated students like people, instead of monsters, maybe if schools taught information in a logical order, and taught it, instead of forcing meaningless memorization, maybe, if schools actually provided half way decent meals for the price, or water that didn't make your stomach hurt, or didn't make you dress in an oddly specific arbitrary fashion. Maybe then it wouldn't be such fucking hell. Maybe then the children would actually be able to think, feel, and learn. But like that will ever happen.
Where is the mod rating for "scary"? Also,
This is most likely caused by electro magnetic waves given off by any kind of large electronic device. If anyone is sensitive to those waves, they can develop skin irritation, nausea, headaches, even hallucinations
Given that its extremely likely there are wi-fi signals within range at home.
To much anime is bad for the brain...desu.
Sorry. Couldn't help it.
When I worked in a toronto school for eight years I learned that some parents are neurotic about their child's health. What is new, I'm told, is that the internet greatly encourages this neurosis. Because so much of the writing style of what's out there is sensationalist and represents a certain angle, all it takes are the right (or wrong) search keywords to implant fear in to an impressionable parent's mind(!) The kids, of course, exploit this to no end. Oh except for your kid. Your kid is an angel.
The level of WOO in this report is off the scale!
...children come home to there parents, are telling proud that the school now has WiFi and the parents are going all "OH MY GOD YOU'RE GONNA DIE AND HAVE DECEASES OF IT"? I mean, I've seen a lot of people who're very good at making a mountain out of a molehill.
But I suggest the reverse test, turn it off and don't tell anyone...see if that cures it. Or the other way round, stop broadcasting the SSID, lock everyone out and tell everyone that it is down (without shutting it down, of course). I'm sure the results will be very interesting.
Cows give sour milk! Trains responsible!
AC electricity dangerous! Edison proves by electrocuting elephant.
Cars dangerous! New law passed mandating that every car be preceded by a man with a bell and lantern.
probably psychosomatic...so, do a blind experiment where the WiFi transmitters are turned off some random weeks, tell the parents you are doing the experiment, and see if there is any correlation. Or give free tin hats to the loonies, it might be cheaper.
Maybe they all had dodgy heating systems installed by the same people and have carbon monoxide poisoning.
I think the true problem is the inherent weakness in the parental mind. This is what makes them blame something they're constantly bombarded by from birth, without the need for using any critical thinking.
Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
I would be content to sit on my ass, watch cartoons and play video games ALL DAY LONG.
Could this be a reverse placebo effect?
Overexposure to radiation is not a "made up" science and there are standards set to ensure that the radiation on school grounds remain below the standard. The easiest way to determine the level of radiation is to use the IXUS software, but with NARDA safety equipment, the levels could be measured.
I wanted to note that all of these small towns are geographically very close aside from Thunder Bay. This could make for an interesting communications study. ie) How does civic paranoia flow throughout social groups in small town Ontario? It appears that it's moving South towards Toronto. We need to take containment measures immediately. Cut off all communication. Nevermind, they're already moving in that direction. We're safe.
Disclaimer: This disclaimer has no legal influence and is in no way binding in a court of law. Please disregard it and h
It must be the WiFi - nothing to do with the pot they were smoking...
"Sick building syndrome".
If you aren't familiar with that, you can use the above as a search term, including the quotes.
Has the school district hired a good environmental consultant to check the affected schools for bacteriological and/or chemical contamination? Were the affected schools built by the same contractors? Are these schools relatively new?
While microwave radiation may have long-term health risks (as I recall, the results of the studies I've run across largely depend on who's funding them), what's described here doesn't fit anything I've ever observed or heard of in connection with microwave energy. But it does fit contamination problems in buildings. Lots of people have wireless routers, me included and these things aren't going on here or around us.
Do these kids carry cell phones off campus? If microwave energy is bad for them, shouldn't they stop?
Unplugging campus routers sounds like the solution to a PR problem, NOT a health problem.
I've got a netbook and android tablet next to me right now, and I don't have a headache, skin rash, or naus... excuse me, gotta puke!
Tech Public Policy stuff
Correlation is not ca... oh, fuck it, they'll never listen. It's just going to be more masses of misinformed parents and amateur "scientists" rushing to place meaningless and inhibitive laws. Just let them, we'll clean it up when they're done being heroes.
"Most people, I think, don't even know what a rootkit is, so why should they care about it?"
A faraday cage and a little testing and this could be definitively tested.
As Ripley said in the movies "Wow, did IQ's drop sharply while I was gone"
-- Programming with boost is like building a house with lego. It's a cool but I wouldn't want to live in it
When my local school system, here in North Carolina, had consistently sick students, they temporarily closed the school down, did a thorough toxic sweep. When they did infact find biological factor, primarily as a part of the centralized air and heating system, they closed the school indefinitely until the entire school could be rehabbed. That meant the offending ac/heating system had to be replaced, old carpet ripped up and replaced, the school scrubbed down completely, and any other materials that could have been exposed or otherwise allow any fungus or bacteria to fester was destroyed.
I doubt wireless is making their school children sick, I could be wrong, but they need to look a little bit closer.
My guess would be that the kids who have random headaches and body aches now see a pattern in them. And that increases their anxiety, leading to more headaches, etc. The human mind is geared towards recognizing patterns, even where there are none there (the face of a man or a chicken on the moon, the hand of your deity of choice controlling the events in our lives). The parents now are anxious as well and are transmitting this fear to their kids.
Plus some of the kids could be faking it. Or there might be some underlying cause such as what others have suggested. And while there might be some effects of non-ionizing radiation, they certainly do not have an effect to this extent. Any effects are at an almost imperceptible level, not that dozens of kids would be made ill.
Of course, will be difficult to tell the community that their kids and parents are crazy and imagining the whole thing.
I sleep on the couch with my router six feet away from my head, and I have all the symptoms described. You should just put the router somewhere else and be done with it. Unless it gives you a tumor, quit whining.
And, strangely enough, symptom rates are even HIGHER when there's a really tough math test!
I live in the disctrict (simcoe county), central ontario... ofcourse, I think its nonsense.. They have sent out a mailer (this parent group) that is the most fear-pandering piece of garbage I have ever read. Complete with a 'sick kid' on the cover.. all about how our schools are unsafe for kids.. because of a wifi router in the classroom... I do have a son, he is in an infant tho, so not in school, so I can understand how this fear-mongering would really get to a less-tech-savvy parent. I got the mailer months ago, and heard nothing about it... then today I hear about it on local radio... and now see it on slashdot... I fear now that the media has grabbed hold of it, we are going to set a dangerous precedent where we blame all our scholastic problems on technology... rather than looking for the real cause of any illness (if it exists)...
Maybe they should force the school to take a better action. Getting rid of wi-fi routers to combat a mold problem, for example, would be pretty stupid. Like the GP said - use some science - do tests. Determine if there really is a problem, if so determine the cause. Easier said than done, but in the long run way more effective than witch hunts.
I am a high school teacher. Now, my view my be slightly skewed, as I teach the supposedly 'emotionally disturbed' kids (few if any of them are emotionally disturbed...but that's a whole digression I won't get into at the moment). As plenty of people have mentioned, kids don't want to be at school (at least, until you tell them they aren't allowed to be there, then there's no place they want to be more). I didn't want to go to school when I was young either, of course I didn't bother to invent illness, I just kept track of my sick days and told my parent when I didn't feel like going to school that day. Why would they, when the alternative is stay home, play video games, take naps, screw around online...all the same things I would rather be doing than being at work too. Just like when their kids behave poorly, or don't do their work or any number of other infractions, in the parents' eyes it couldn't possibly be their little angel's fault, someone or something at the school must be responsible. Heaven forbid that students should be forced to take realistic responsibility for their decisions and actions.
CFL bulbs themselves, in the way their ballasts operate, send strange EMF spiky behavior throughout the electrical system they are attached to, i.e. , the school building. Supposedly, they are horrible for people. Wireless routers, no effect by comparison.
-- John
The cafeteria at my high school was terrible and would have gagged a maggot, if any had gone to school, but it was still healthier than the plastic petrified puke the kids are eating now.
Its just salt. There's no food which would go bad if you don't change it to keep it fresh, its just salt.
If you think I'm kidding, look at the rats.
The obese rats eat from fast food filled dumpsters.
There's a reason why salt pork, beef jerky and salt cod were "foods of last resort."
It was what was left after you'd gone through all of the fresh food and had only a choice between that and shoe leather.
Salt ISN'T a flavor agent folks. Its a preservative. (In French "Un Préservatif" is a condom. In English its a flavor. [We all know about English cooking. It wasn't until the foundation of the late 18th and 19th century British Empire, and the subjugation of any other cuisine at gun point, that the English discovered that food could be enjoyed.])
MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
Let's see... A large group of plebs believes that they are suffering from the same phantom ailment? That's a textbook sign of mass hysteria.
I can remember lots of these symptoms back in the day when the only radio waves in the area came from the low-powered AM station on the edge of town and the occasional military jet. Gee, if only we had known!
"Who controls the past controls the future. Who controls the present controls the past." -- George Orwell
No the creases are good, they help scatter the mind control waves instead of reflecting a strong return signal, which will be picked up by the mind control satellites, then the Illuminati will know you're wearing a tinfoil hat and poison your water supply with mind-control nanites instead, or send the grays to abduct you and install an implant if you already run your water through an anti-nanite system.
So remember, creases GOOD, right angles and flat/curved surfaces BAD.
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
.. of Pontypool, a horrible Canadian movie whose premise is that a virus is capable of spreading through the English Language. As one commenter said, it looks like a bad stage play.
Tiller's Rule: Never use a word in written form that you've only heard and never read. You will end up looking foolish.
BOB the newscaster> ....back to you Anne,
In other news, in the same small town of bumbf*cknowhere, a mine shaft has imploded and released a yellowish cloud, that could very well contain some chemical agents within, this mine shaft is 1km away from the school.....no one is able to tell is there is any side effects to this cloud,
ANNE the newscaster> We have now more people claiming they are projectile vomiting and finding blood in their urine, local authorities say this WIFI must be stopped and can see no other REAL reason why this would be happening to the students. The city officials say that the WIFI , although never having ANY other documented reports or towns where such illnesses have occurred, are the main cause for their illnesses and that WIFI must be stopped.
BOB the newscaster> Sorry to interrupt Anne, I just got word that in fact now this yellow cloud coming from the mine shaft has been confirmed to be of chemical nature and that no one should go play in those mines, not even the students of the school only 1 km away. Back to you Anne...
ANNE the newscaster> As i was saying BOB, we really have no real sound evidence that WIFI is the cause of these illnesses, but local authorities know without the shadow of a doubt, that the WIFI is to blame...as many of these city officials went to local schools here to study real hard and get their degrees, they MUST know what they are talking about...back to you BOB!
Lighting is often the real problem.
The old "T-10" type of fluorescent lights actually flicker at 60 hertz, because they use "magnetic" ballasts operating at the same frequency as the AC electricity supply. The 60 hertz frequency is fast enough that most humans don't notice the flickering, but slow enough to cause eye strain. The new "T-8" type of fluorescent lights flicker at a much higher rate, near 20,000 hertz, which does not cause eye strain.
Many building have far too much light, particularly buildings with the older T-10 fluorescent lights. There was a period of many years when more light was assumed to be better than less light, so many older buildings (most schools) have far too much light. Bright light causes glare, which causes eye strain and headaches.
The headaches and other effects of bad lighting, either flickering or high intensity, are exacerbated when people are looking at computer screens for extended periods. This effect is made worse by the fact that many video displays are preset to emit maximum intensity, to make them brighter so customers will notice them in the store.
For more information, see: http://www.ccohs.ca/oshanswers/ergonomics/office/eye_discomfort.html
Reduce the light to about 1 watt per square foot; replace T-10 fixtures with T-8, turn down the brightness of computers screens, and watch the headaches disappear.
In the bargain, you will save money. Replacing the old T-10 fixtures with T-8 fixtures will reduce electricity usage for lighting by about 40%, even at the same intensity. Reducing the number of fixtures in each room, to reduce the intensity, also reduces electricity usage.
I'm a former LU Computer Science student and still active in the clubs there as alumni. All I can say is that LU's WiFi protection policy is a complete LIE. Look at it this way folks, a cellphone puts out at least 1 watt of power which is 1000 milliwatts. A typical wifi router puts out a measly 20 milliwatts. I should know, my blackberry phone has the power to buzz speaker systems wirelessly at times. If a lot of kids and adults carry cellphones, shouldn't we be more worried about the higher power systems? If anything I suspect kids are getting sick because well it's school... Most kids are happier with no school. Happier = Healthier (well short term anyhow until you have no education and can't survive in the modern world) Sheesh dumb parents...
Another point, we did a quick wifi survey of the University and guess where there's an obvious wifi point? Right in the administration offices where the president resides! Truth is, I think the president banned wifi because they didn't want to spend the money to implement WiFi or the associated bandwidth needs. If he actually believed the health issue why the heck would he put a WiFi point in his own administration office? Somewhat a hypocrite no? Anyhow, President Gilbert was highly disliked by staff and students and many are happy to see him go into retirement this year.
Hear Hear!!
Finally a bit of logic and common sense. Not disparaging anyone else's ideas and suggestions, as one of them is probably the real culprit here (rather than the WiFi radiation), but the root of the problem is the knee-jerk blame-something-or-someone-else reactions that our society has seemed to slide into as a fix for everything.
Bravo.
Check out their website: http://www.safeschool.ca/
The "experts" claiming WIFI harms kids are chiropractors, a graphic designer, and some other educated people who don't have a single science degree among the lot of them. They mean well, but haven't a clue about how WIFI works, or even what it is.
They gloss over it, but in fact while they make it sound like there's a pandemic of illnesses at these schools, there are actually only 1-2 kids per school who have any significant symptoms. It's very sad that your kid has got heart palpitations or a skin rash, but in a school of 500-1000 kids it's almost guaranteed that at least one kid has some sort of life-threatening disease that has nothing to do with the environment at the school. Besides kids wanting any excuse to avoid school, there are many more factors that can produce the symptoms these kids are experiencing: a new ethanol-from-corn processing plant in Collingwood, changes to ground water where many get their drinking water, a processed food diet rich in sugar and salt and calories, genetics, and pure bad luck...for a start.
These kids are definitely suffering from various illnesses (not helped at all by their parents' paranoia), and it's a real shame that they have these real symptoms and diseases...but they have absolutely NOTHING to do with WIFI in the school(s).
The average meal my wife and I can buy, as opposed to make ourselves, in the US is the FDA Approved over-processed crap.
Even in good restaurants (read somewhere FAR from a "Happy McMeal",) they are forced to buy FDA Approved ingredients (read: over-processed, over-preserved, salt-laden, boiled-to-death pap.)
The worst part is that I have to pay a small fortune to the grocer for what he manages to AVOID putting into he food.
From pesticides,
to nitrates, nitrites and other taste killers,
to anti-biotics, growth hormones and other drugs (read a Merck Manual and then try to hold down your lunch. You'll need both hands!),
to what is euphemistically known as reprocessed feed.
You do NOT want to hear what they feed the animals, but I'll tell you anyway, its what ever part of the animal that they couldn't sell in the first place.
Don't like a particular cut? Don't worry about it going to waste. Its all sold to the few reprocessing plants left after the past 50 years of killer competition and killer profit taking. Its ground up, sort of sterilized to remove any hint of flavor, and fed to the next chicken or cow. ("Factory Fresh Fish" ain't faring a whole lot better.)
The chicken or cow has no choice in the matter. That why Mad Cow is such a big worry to the stock yards. The recalls involve millions of pounds of whatever issues from the cloaca of the reprocessing plant. The term cloaca is rather accurate since one of the most common problems come from e-coli.
When they get caught, not IF but WHEN, they have no idea which cow ate what crap when.
Know what e-coli is? Know where e-coli lives? Right.
Guess what, the FDA standards are there to maintain an absolute minimum of safety, not a maximum of cleanliness.
When I say ALL processed food is shitty, I mean it.
MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
Hear hear.
Loved the rant. You're spot on.
You get to eat whatever crap the FDA has deemed wouldn't kill you right off the bat. (Stuff like e-coli, Mad Cow and the stuff that you never read about except in a Merck Manual.)
The FDA is there to ensure that food doesn't spoil before you PAY for it.
Its not there for YOU THE CONSUMER!
Its there for the AGRIBUSINESS.
Those are the troll accountants who push shit your way without any regard to your wants or desires, because they're fixated and controlled by the profit motive.
And "Fleur de sel" is fine when I control how much I want.
How much salt is there in that bag of chips?
How much salt is there in that jar of salsa?
How much salt is there in that pack of hot-dogs?
How much salt is there in that soft drink?
Do you know?
Can you opt for less than the RDA (recommended daily allowance) in a single summertime snack?
What about the rest of the day.
Did you know that you probably exceeded the RDA of salt before you got up from the breakfast table?
Mass-produced cereal, boiled-to-death pap without salt and packed with unpronounceable crap, tastes like the cardboard box it was shipped in.
High-fructose corn-syrup (the cheapest government subsidy-ed shit that the accountant/processors can get,) other inexpensive glucose compounds, the alphabet-soup of crap added as preservatives and some artificial color and flavor doesn't taste like anything other than salty sweet. If you're pre-pubescent its sweet salty.
It won't kill you right off the bat, but have you noticed that the "Obesity Epidemic" started about the same time that the corn growing agribusiness started getting all those subsidies. Coincidence? I think NOT! I actually remember drinking soft drinks BEFORE they swapped out the cane sugar for the corn-syrup. I can still buy it. Its just more expensive.
This food adulteration is NOT for YOUR benefit. Its to insure maximum shelf-life.
YOU don't enter into it.
MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
I have the Windows syndrome. Every time I have to use Windows I end up smashing the keyboard through the monitor, throwing the computer out of the window and, in extreme cases, wandering the streets looking for Microsoft employees to strangle with the mouse.
No one has been hurt thus far; my doctor always finds me and calms me down with his Linux laptop.
...is in the mind.
As a matter of fact if they hadn't realized it yet: We are all being constantly bombarded with radiations.
If we learned something today is that you must not microwave your head.(Else you could end up blind D:)
Those symptoms perfectly match with the illness that is called 'being in love.'
-- Cheers!
I design and program wireless networks for water infrastructure, and I can say that these types of symptoms are spot on. I once tested a radio comm network in the 900mhz range, 40 radios each outputting 5 continuous watts (spread spectrum radios constantly talk to each other even when DTE transmissions are minimal) and after a couple of hours I would get sick to my stomach and a severe headache. Of course an 802.11x router isn't going to put out 5 watts and you're not likely to have to share a small room with 40 of them, but if a person was hyper-sensitive I could see this as a real concern.
Does nobody in authority understand the concept of field strength? It's OK to expect that some parents might not understand this, but surely people authorising the installation of WiFi networks might be able to make a simple connection between WiFi being tiny wattages and larger field strengths being necessary to harm tissue (ie leaky microwave oven.)
Bloody "WiFi sickness"? Bloody bollocks.
"I hope you like Guinness, Sir. I find it a refreshing substitute for, er... food." Col. Jack O'Neil, SG-1
Yeah. I was objecting to the first half of the GP's rant about "taking personal responsibility".
this happened to me all the time. ITS CALLED STRESS!!! ffs how is this not a no brainer? forcing kids to memorize and regurgitate information, most of which nobody cares about, isn't stressful? i got psychosomaticly induced "sickness" and even though i knew it, i still never found out how to deal with it enough to function. the stress of knowing i have to go somewhere where nobody cares what i think or even asks me what i want to learn and judges me for not "learning" the way they dictate was, and is extremely daunting. i know what i like and want to do with my life, but apparently that not enough to decide what my education is. and people dumb enough to think that a wifi signal gives kids headaches in school but not anywhere else in the world is just more evidence that our educational system is broken.
Yes there is another explanation, Subliminal Distraction exposure.
Video shown on CBC reveals that students were placed close together without Cubicle Level Protection.
Wi-Fi only allows computers to be used anywhere. When there is detectable movement in the peripheral vision of the user it will cause Subliminal Distraction. SD was discovered to cause mental breaks for office workers forty years ago. The office cubicle was designed to deal with the vision startle reflex to stop it by 1968.
Turning off the Wi-Fi won't change that design problem.
http://toronto.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20100817/ontario-wifi-schools-dombrowsky-100817/20100817?hub=Toronto
I wonder if it occured to these parents that mold may be in the schools, I mean after all, it's been attributed to Sudden Infant Death Syndrome. And also, we are constantly bathed in a sea of signals such as the 802.11 spectrum, and even if these kids homes don't have WiFi it's incredibly likely many of their neighbours do.
a piece of advice, go and live in rain forests, that's healthy!
"Besides Wi-Fi signals, could there possibly be any other logical explanation for kids having more symptoms of illness on school days than at home on weekends or in the summer?" How about laced weed?
The problem is called Subliminal Distraction exposure.