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Apple vs. Google TVs
This SFGate article begins,
"Apple and Google just kicked off the first round of their battle for the living room. Based on what we've seen so far, Apple is in the lead. It's still early, and this could change, but it looks like Apple is making an all-around smarter bet than Google." I haven't tried out the Google device yet. The Apple unit is decent, but it's so focused on TV rental that it makes it difficult to work with an existing library of media; between the transcoding, and tedious menu navigation... well, it's a good thing it's only $99. It's a dang cheap way to get your stuff on your bigger screens, provided you're willing to jump through the necessary hoops.
"Based on what we've seen so far, Apple is in the lead"
Really? Based on what I've seen so far, regular television manufacturers are in the lead.
It's a dang cheap way to get your stuff on your bigger screens, provided you're willing to jump through the necessary hoops.
Roku Box or WDTV, anyone? No hoops to jump through there...or, if you have an Xbox 360 or PS3, TVersity is a FANTASTIC solution.
Living With a Nerd
Getting to stored media on a computer only requires 3 clicks. Hardly a difficult proposition.
If I don't buy a palm-sized AppleTV, Steve Jobs may crush me with it. Seriously, billion-dollar company and that's the best picture they'd allow?
Although in all honesty, why are we talking AppleTV? Mac mini's are a little more expensive, but that (+boxee) has been my awesome set-top box for over a year now.
-Matt
--- Need web hosting?
Desktop: I run a formerly high-end 1600x1200 CRT that I could get for free at the curbside these days. The computer to which it's attached has been replaced (motherboard) at least three times during that CRT's life. We just had our discussion of "why can't I find LCDs at 1200 vertical pixels" a few days ago.
Connectivity: Dialup, DSL, cable, 4g wireless. Even these technologies have tended eclipse each other over periods of 3-5 years - still shorter than the time period you'd expect to get out of a $2000 TV.
Content Distribution: Ten years ago, you'd want Napster built into your stereo. Five years ago, you'd want a Gnutella client built into your TV. Three years ago, people who bought subscription music offerings got PlayedForSure.
Content Playback: Ten years ago, it was .MPGs and .AVIs. Five years ago, a DiVX at sufficiently high resolution could drag a single-core CPU to the ground. You really think that Google TV's gonna be able to render 3D-mega-HD-whatever in 2015-2020? :)
The things you use to get content have far shorter lifecycles than the products you use to view content. Embedding one within the other is a WOMBAT: Waste Of Money, Brains, And Time.
XBMC all the way ;)
The TiVo Premiere is a fine device, but it will not work with "any external hard drive" and won't play any iTunes content with DRM. You have a to use a TiVo-approved specific (over-priced) external drive. You also have to pay a monthly fee. If you want to play iTunes content downloaded from Apple, you need an AppleTV. The devices' abilities only really overlap on Netflix playback, where the TiVo interface is really outdated, compared to almost any other platform (Apple, Roku, PS3, Wii, etc.)
What's that? Is it some new form of torrent delivery system?
That is all.
The author already had his mind made up even before he compared them.
- There is some rambling about input 1 and 2 and I'm not quite sure what he is getting at with that but the conclusion was Apple uses input 2 and that made it easier and therefore better. His criteria for "easier therefore better" gets lost when he talks about the Sony with built in Goolge functionality. With that, there is no external input 2 or what ever needed at all, it is built in! You can't get any more easier to hook up and use than that but somehow that simplicity gets no mention.
- He mentions that an official "Apps store" is in the works for the G device but Apple hackers will probably have something unoffical as well. So Apple hackers making an unoffical app store is a postivie or a negative? He did not clarify but was leaning toward a positive. I'm sure that unofficial app store will be seemless and easy to use for all of those people that bought the Apple device because it was simplar because the Google device using input 1 was too hard for them to figure out.
Bottom line... He cherry picked things and used different criteria to compare them. There is no technical content and no specs or options are even considered in his comparison of which is better. It was a useless and biased article from start to finish and 30 seconds of my life i will never get back. It is similar to a paid advertisement "editorial".
He was right on the cost, the Apple device appears to be $200 cheaper. We all know Apple made it's inroads from being cheaper.
Here's a thought, check out some already available embedded devices for home entertainment. They have some decent features, they are cheap and some can stream netflix, youtube, rss feeds, audio feeds, and even PPV movies from the large distributors like Paramount.
Wish I could find a cheap XBMC or Plex Set Top Box. That's all I really want.
Introducing Microsoft Vacuum 1.0 The first Microsoft product that doesn't suck.
I just read someone that was pissed that they could not let their wife watch netflix on the 360 while they played games on windows live. Thanks, but no thanks. Never is going to be that great.
I still use a first-gen Xbox for XBMC.
It hasn't got the power to decode 720p, but SD is perfectly good enough for me.
Can the Apple TV device stream un-DRM'ed video/audio from a NAS box? All I see are rent, rent, rent and stream from my laptop running iTunes. I DON'T WANT TO RENT - I already have my CDs and DVDs ripped for my own use. Can the Apple TV box play them?
Tiller's Rule: Never use a word in written form that you've only heard and never read. You will end up looking foolish.
No one really needs either of these systems yet.
What makes him think that I'll ever need it?
What's this need for TV?
RIP America
July 4, 1776 - September 11, 2001
it's a good thing it's only $99
Oh no it isn't....
That's merely the entrance fee.. Admission to individual attractions, food, beverage and use of toilets is all extra.
"Oops, I always forget the purpose of competition is to divide people into winners and losers." - Hobbes
Or if you don't want to build your own, what about Roku? Their lowest box is almost 1/2 the cost of the Apple TV. For $60 you get a pretty nice box.
"I don't own/watch a TV. PRAISE ME!" comments in 3... 2... oh, wait. Already happened.
you're also wrong about needing an AppleTV to play iTunes content downloaded from apple... i use a mac mini.
i prefer the tivo netflix interface to the very slow to load PS3 interface, that only shows 4-5 movies on the screen at once.
If I bought the GoogleTV or AppleTV for my nearly 80-year-old parents would it (1) be able to connect to their old composite-only set? What about S-video?
(2) How easy would it be for them to use? Right now they barely comprehend how to change channels on the Digital-to-analog Converter box ("How do I get this damn TV Guide off the screen???"), so I'm a bit skeptical they could operate either of the internet-based boxes.
(3) Does it work over a 1000 kbit/s line? Or would they need to download first and watch later?
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
.
Apple needs to support more of the non-Apple open codecs, e.g. FLAC for audio. There are too many websites offer high-quality audio (96/24 resolution) in FLAC. Apple is trying to get the web to conform to Apple's desires, instead of Apple supporting what is already out there on the web.
That article makes it sound like Google TV doesn't have Netflix etc. However it's been announced that it will indeed have that stuff.
You .. you realise that these are both devices that plug into the TV, right? I mean... if Apple wanted to sell me an actual TV for $100 I'd be all over it. You can't hardly get any kind of TV for that anymore.
I don't need a million points of light, just two points of multi-mode fiber and a 10 Gig-E router.
No, for most people their video content would require jumping through a bunch of hoops.
A lot of people own a sizable collection of DVDs and last time I checked, you couldn't just rip a DVD to iTunes like you can a CD. Yes, you -can- rip a DVD into formats that iTunes can read and such, but we're talking about most people here, not people skilled with computers.
Heck, a lot of people still have a sizable collection of VHS movies.
I see no real reason for most people to buy an Apple TV because its just $100 to sit with all their other devices connected to the TV. If they have a Wii/Xbox/PS3 they already have Netflix, if they have a Wii they already have a browser with Flash to look at YouTube, the PS3 can play Blu-Rays and the Xbox can play (HD)DVDs (and if you installed homebrew on your Wii you can also watch DVDs on your Wii, but most people wouldn't have) so, for argument's sake lets just assume that most people own a Wii since it is the most popular game console.
If they want to watch a DVD, they have to put it in their DVD/Blu-Ray player, if they want to watch a VHS they have to put a VHS in their VHS player, if they want to use Netflix they just have to fire up their Wii. About the only thing that an Apple TV would let them do would be stream their content from other computers which only contains a very small portion of their actual amount of content.
I'm not seeing the point of an Apple TV for most people, it doesn't solve any problems. If they really want to stream content the easiest way would be to just buy a cheap HTPC and set up their favorite media center on it, and then they could play DVDs/Blu-Rays/Netflix/YouTube/etc all from one device.
Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
While it may not have new release TV shows (at this time), it serves me quite well for entertainment and only cost $8/month. What would that buy me on AppleTV or Google TV? Not as much media to watch, that's for sure.
At this point I'm not interested in apple tv or google tv. If I want new tv shows cable is still a better deal (or simply torrenting them.. it isn't illegal everywhere btw, we don't all live in the US). Netflix lets me watch all the older movies and tv series I want to watch more conveniently than brick and mortar renting and much cheaper than renting via brick and mortar or AppleTV or Google TV.
"If you are going through hell, keep going." - Winston Churchill
If Microsoft would put a TV tuner in a revamped XBox360
What kind of TV tuner? Are you talking ATSC, ClearQAM, CableCARD, tru2way, DirecTV, Dish, or whatever the European standards are? Or do you recommend a separate USB dongle for each?
What NAS box with iTunes do you recommend? Is a Mac mini better enough than an ION nettop to justify the price difference? Or what point am I missing?
haha, the fact that you sue a mac mini still proves his point. you don't use a tivo for that.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
I think the one that will win is the one that will allows a harddisk with content to be wireless networked to all the boxes in a house. I already know people who have content centralized and can watch whatever wherever they are. If you dedicate a computer to serving content one can already do this with itunes.
Alternatively, plug an external hard disk into the box. Anything that comes with the box is going to be too small. I suppose the Apple TV will be hacked to allow this.
I am not sure what the transcoding issue is. The specs indicate it can play most standard formats. I know itunes has issues with some formats.
"She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
Huh, nope, not willing to jump through any hoops. Either the device works, or it doesn't go in my living room. If it comes bundled with shenanigans, I don't pay for it. Despite their really awesome products, I had to stop buying Apple gear a few years ago for that reason: the shenanigans made me feel like a chump, and that feeling wasn't worth the slightly nicer products.
No, we don't need a TV tuner built into these boxes-- we need TV production companies to jump onboard some kind of TVoIP scheme that allows us to stream their shows to whatever set-top box we choose without going through a cable company. We need to be able to get movies and TV shows streamed to the set-top box of our choice, rather than have Microsoft put another monopolistic layer on top of the monopolistic cable company's crap.
... except in the sense that they both work through the TV. Apple's device is more of a media gateway for stuff you've already got through iTunes, as I understand it. Without significant internal storage, it doesn't seem like it can really stand as a platform on its own, with app support and development efforts. Even coupled with the TV rentals, it's mostly a quick and dirty way of making iTunes content useful through the TV.
On the other hand, Google TV seems like it's designed to be a real extension of the Android platform, with a full app community and a lot of functions that seem designed to augment TV. They want people to view the TV as something that you can do more than just consume stuff off of. Apple TV has some functionality in this direction, but just the lack of internal storage means there's only so far they can go.
In other words, Google is making a grab for the TV as a new development and consumer platform. Apple is trying to enhance its existing market share through giving people another reason to buy more contents. How are these especially similar, again?
You would have to hack the TiVo to use a generic drive case. A stock TiVo HD or Premiere only works with the WD MyDVR Expander. And a Mac mini is a not a TiVo, is it now?
About 7 times the cost.
Best Slashdot Co
I like the idea of these things but am not sure my 30GB cap will be of much use. Highspeed caps are an issue in my area.
"Apple and Google just kicked off the first round of their battle for the Internet speedlane subscription bundles. Based on what we've seen so far, Apple is in the lead. It's still early, and this could change, but it looks like Apple is making an all-around smarter bet than Google." I haven't tried out the Google Internet bundle yet. The Apple 'net is decent, but it's so focused on TV rental that it makes it difficult to work with... well, it's a good thing it's only $99/month. It's dang cheap...
Or buy a device that actually fits your needs, right out of the box?
I just bought a second Apple TV (the old model, it's only $149 on clearance with a 160GB hard drive)*.
The first thing I did was patch it using the readily-available patchstick software and it now has Boxee and XBMC on it. I get way more usage out of XBMC than Boxee, but that's just me. Presumably the new Apple TV will have similar hacks available for it real soon now.
The thing is, our main use for the Apple TV boxes is to use them as designed - to play our iTunes library of music, and look at our pictures from iPhoto. Honestly I've never even tried to watch anything other than a music video via the Apple software on the box. We have a library of videos and movies on a 1TB WD MyBook World Edition on our network, and we use XBMC to watch those.
The Apple TV is a great product, if you want to use it for what it's designed for. If, on the other hand, you want an open, hackable device, look elsewhere.
I have never understood why people think it's worthwhile to complain that a product that is marketed as a closed box, is actually a closed box, especially when there are other alternatives out there. It's like if I went out and bought a really expensive electronic toothbrush and then complained to everyone that it can't be easily modified to wash my car or polish furniture.
* I wanted the older model of the Apple TV because it actually stores all of your iTunes/iPhoto content on its internal hard drive, so you don't need a computer to be on in order to watch that content.
Putting moderation advice in your
An original AppleTV can run XBMC, supports add on HDs, and if you forego the wireless card you can add that Broadcom card that allows XBMC to play full 1080p and since it is over a wired network you can do it at decent bit rates so it will actually look like 1080p. Add to that the fact that it has both HDMI and component out so you can drive a TV and an HD projector like I do and you have a pretty awesome little box that plays anything you throw at it.
With that said, even a stock ATV (new or old) is a very convenient piece of kit if you have your media in iTunes, and if the new ATV gets app support it will likely get a port of the excellent Air Video which I currently use to stream all sorts of video to my iPad and does on the fly transcoding so even FLVs will play fine.
All that and you can rent stuff if you like but you don't have to since it will play you own media and it takes no time on a modern computer to rip your own DVDs to m4v.
"I have the attention span of a strobe lit goldfish, please get to the point quickly!"
What was the name of that web appliance Microsoft failed with a few years back??? WebTV? But more to the point of your post, what would work in that arena would be for one of the tuner manufacturers such as Elgato to make a version that worked on a 360 (or PS3). There's not reason that it would have to come from Microsoft.
A lot of commentators say that this tech needs to be built into the TV, but I disagree. Chipsets, storage and networking hardware are less expensive than display tech, but they also change and improve much more rapidly. People don't want to have to replace their entire TV just because some new networking standard came on the market, or because a new app requires more storage or a more powerful chipset than the TV has built in. In fact, I think the even digital tuners built into most HDTVs are obsolete because they only decode MPEG2, not H.264. We'll never see higher picture quality in traditional broadcasts or cablecasts no matter how cheap H.264 decoding hardware gets because that part of the TV is set in stone. It's most economical and convenient for the customer to only replace their set top box.
So another reason why Apple's ahead of Google is that they're not bothering with TV integration for now. It's bad news for TV makers who had hoped to get customers to replace their entire TVs because one part had become obsolete, but that's such a bad value for customers that it wouldn't work even in a good economy.
No mention of Roku? $30 less than aTV, more content, better resolution...
;)
Disclaimer: I might or might not have worked for companies mentioned
You pretty much described Netflix streaming. Or, if you want a solution with less of a single-point-of-failure, the PS3 will do webstreaming in a browser.
The ______ Agenda
This thing reads like a middle school compare-contrast paper. Isn't this guy allegedly a professional journalist or something?
Or get a PS3, since like the Wii, it also has a web browser.
Roku Box or WDTV, anyone? No hoops to jump through there...or, if you have an Xbox 360 or PS3, TVersity is a FANTASTIC solution.
By "hoops", I'm assuming the OP means "transferring your physical media to networked storage".
And you'll have to do that no matter what solution you use. The only difference is in what "hoops" you have to jump through. Some only need the DVD to be ripped. Others want it in divx or h.264 format.
I started out ripping all my movies to h.264, so I have very few "hoops" to jump through, and my files play on almost all devices out there, including ATV.
Magic doesn't work in my presence. My power of disbelief is too strong.
you're quite simply a liar.
why?
Sort of. The problem is that Netflix and Hulu Plus and Amazon and iTunes all need support built into boxes individually rather than buying a set-top box and being able to choose your content provider independently of your choice in hardware.
Beyond that, all of these services lack content. I don't mean to say that Netflix doesn't have much content, but rather that it also lacks a lot of content. I have Netflix, but it doesn't have access to as many new episodes as Hulu or iTunes.
I think people are missing the potential of Google TV as an add on to the experience, not as a replacement. Keep in mind that the google tv is different technology.... It's a 299 video overlay system... as well as a control module.
Think about the possibilities:
* on screen facebook/twitter notifications ..perhaps tied to search for the specific show you're watching...
* on screen email notifications
* in show IMDB lookup with show pause
* suggested dvd/blu-ray/streaming queue/dvr recording based on current show
* External Team Chat/Video conferencing while playing xbox 360/sony playstation
* Video conferencing in general -- grandma's going to have better interaction with her grandchildren when they live far away (yes this one applies to me)
* Pause tv based on caller id with a phone add on....
* Slingbox add on and now you can watch your entire library anywhere....
And that's 2 minutes of thought... i'm sure there are many more ideas out there..
What is so difficult about running iTunes?
In fact, Handbrake just made my life grand by allowing me to rip my entire DVD collection to an AppleTV format.
Don't want (or can't because you're pirating AVIs) to use iTunes, wait for 4.2 next month and push your library from AirTunes.
In the meantime, I have to reset my Xbox360 and DLNA server every other show because of a hiccup in the network that completely stalls feeds and registers files incorrectly as unplayable. AppleTV made my life easier. I don't rent with it either, no point.
Google has 0 devices right now that are compatible with "Throw" and that will only change to our cell phones, assuming you have Android and assuming they push the tech to Android, and assuming your carrier is going to allow you to update your Android OS to include the technology.
I haven't tried out the Google device yet. The Apple unit is decent, but it's so focused on TV rental that it makes it difficult to work with an existing library of media; between the transcoding, and tedious menu navigation... well, it's a good thing it's only $99. It's a dang cheap way to get your stuff on your bigger screens, provided you're willing to jump through the necessary hoops.
OK, after reading the article, and practically having a brain spasm from the complete degradation of intelligence, I had to go back and review the initial snippet posted and lets start from there.
First the reviewer (which by the first sentence can't even be considered a reviewer, but rather an Apple Fanboy attempting to get the jump on a story, and spin it their way) hasn't even used the Google device. By that statement alone, they can not say any round has gone to anyone, because they haven't even stepped out of the gate to make a comparison.
Next, they compare the price of a pay for service device to a free to use device. Ok, what's the long term cost comparison? If the first gen google device is 300 dollars, but connects you to free/pay services, what type of costs are you going to incur over the use of the product, and how much would a person have to dish out to the apple device for comparable service?
Next they refer to Google going after source1 or whatever they call it. Now I am a videophile, so I have just a few connections on my TV, and my receiver. With that being said, most are full... But I can say this for certain, there is no first and second connection on either. The AV Ports may have a 1 and a 2, the HDMI ports may have a 1 and a 2, there is also the CbTV/Sat port, and the aux port... They are just monikers. To say that Google is looking to replace the Cable box (which is the mis-informed implication, and by mis-informed, they take a piece of information that may or may not be correct, and turn the direction of it into something that is incorrect to cause the reader to be mis-informed about the actuality of the situation) has nothing to do with the complexity to connect the device. Seriously, who wrote this? A 10 year old child wanting to be accepted for being cool and liking something?
Both devices have their points, and both have their negatives. I have a natural fear for Apples rights and property management, and a natural fear of Googles obsession with personal information. So, I am most likely to go with Google, since it's easier to mask personal information than it is to hack the rights of stuff you spent money on, and suddenly can no longer access (or worse, apple changes formats, than your old stuff becomes dated... again).
http://www.dishnetwork.com/googletv/
GoogleTV and AppleTV are low end devices that do not play back all file formats.
Popcornhour http://www.popcornhour.com/onlinestore/index.php?pluginoption=catalog is was ahead of the game. The model C200 networked media player will play back any file format and has provision for a local hard drive or blue ray drive.
The C-200 supports NFS, SMB, FTP, and multiple streaming protocols. It also has a built in bit torrent client for media downloads.
I've had mine for a year and am very satisfied. It probably won't work with iTunes, but then, I'm not in to proprietary formats that cost money and are infected with DRM.
I don't watch TV. I found real life more interesting, and then you factor in things like sex and real life is way better than TV.
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The only drive that will work on a Tivo Premiere is their MyDVD Expander as another had stated. It has to be hooked up through eSATA so I am not really sure how a hard drive made before Tivo was even around would be able to do so since it came out in 1999 and eSATA wasn't standardized till 2004. To use a normal off the shelf external HHD you would need some sort of hack or third party software installed on the drive prior to installing it for use on a Tivo Premiere. It can be done, but if it's a Premiere it needs to be eSATA and needs the hack installed to work, or be Tivo's MyDVD Expander. You sure it's the Premiere device?
Same here. Although I primarily use Plex for media, netflix, hulu, etc. It will re-encode MP4 audio on the fly to AC3 for those external tuners, supports Lanczos3 for resizing on those big TV's, and it plays pretty much anything you throw at it.
I did a little surgery on the drive bay so that I could cram a 1 GB drive in there (takes a bit of chopping at the plastic bits to make the 12.5 mm fit) but it makes a fine HTPC. It also comes with a built in SPIDF which is nice. All it required was a DVI to HDMI cable, and a TOSLINK cable that I picked up for about $2 bucks.
http://www.amazon.com/6ft-Toslink-Mini-Cable/dp/B000FMXKC8
Come back when the drugs wear off. Thanks
Let me guess, you have an TiVo S3 (the one with the OLED display showing what is recording)? The fact that you have used 3 different drives leads me to believe you have had it for a while and the S3 is the oldest HD capable model. If so that explains it. Tivo locked down the external storage after the S3. Only certified drives work out of the box for the TiVo HD and TiVo Premiere.
I'd have to 2nd to Tivo Premiere
Despite the issues it's had (some of which we are still experiencing), it still blows away the competition for us.
We have it setup with an antenna to record all the network shows, and supplement cable shows with Amazon and Netflix. I know that Tivo is not free, but it still spreads out to be around $10/month if you sign up for a year or two. Dropping our $65/month Directv service and moving to a $10/month service with Tivo was a no-brainer. We had a DirecTivo for many years, so the switch didn't affect the wife at all considering the interface is almost exactly the same. Even buying a few cable shows on Amazon puts us well ahead financially of where we were. The other feature we've really come to enjoy is the ability to upload video content onto the Tivo to watch on our own time. It seems neither Apple TV or Roku are offering this feature.
My Tivo has had one issue that I feel I must mention - the Netflix streaming is not as reliable as on Roku (we have an original Roku too). It has this issue were the screen blacks-out every 3-5 minutes for about 5-10 seconds, then returns. I've talked to support about it, and they claim that they have a fix in the works. Honestly, I feel it's an issue that can be solved by a software fix, and we enjoy every other part of the Tivo so much that I don't care too much about the Netflix issue, so we're not going to return the unit.
Nothing works except trick play without a subscription. Without a sub there is no Netflix, program guide, season passes, MRV, or any other feature on the device. You "received lifetime service" because you paid for it. This is still a cost.
I said you need an AppleTV instead of a TiVo. You only brought up the Mac mini later.
Seriously, what is your problem?
And I say ... really? That's your main point? Contrary to what the author thinks, no user will have a preference -- trust me.
I don't because of real experiences with real people, and the combination of cable plus boxes like the AppleTV.
The fact is that people still want live TV- that is, TV where they watch a show when it broadcasts. Of course that's totally true for sports, but even for sitcoms it remains true. People aren't happy having to wait even a day to watch stuff they know is on.
That's why secondary is a smarter bet, because it doesn't mess with watching live TV and is more like hooking up a game console than a cable box.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
wrong.
You can get a used xbox 360 for about $120 from Gamestop now. That's what I've been using to get my media onto the big screen and it works great.
Wait, I thought the cycle of life was they poo on us and we poo on them? Can I not trust Disney films for my science? Or was that South Park? I often confuse the two.
go lie to someone else.
you're a liar. a marketing droid. a logical failure. completely pathetic.
necessity =/= sufficiency.
I've had the WDTV for over a year and it's an awesome device for playing your own media (works with almost any type of video file you throw at it including DVD .iso files). The Plus version adds netflix streaming and would be the one I would get now if I were purchasing it for the first time. I have mine hooked up to an external USB drive with my media stored on it.
God is imaginary
Of course Apple is in the lead. Hasn't 'Apple TV' been around for _years_ now? I mean, sure, they have a new version of the device now, but my girlfriend got an Apple TV about two years ago....
Also, I'd just like to say that TV is dead.
I'm just waiting to hear that someone's cracked the bootloader on the Apple TV so I can toss *nix distros on it. Cheapie lil ARM sandbox.
Buy a Mac Mini used off eBay?
My Core Duo (not Core 2) mini from several years ago plays 720p just fine, via Plex. I think you could probably pick one up for about the price of an Apple TV. If you've got a Firewire enabled cable box I've got a Python script that turns it into a PVR that records on command from iCal too.
i've never had any issues with netflix on my tivo hd... i've had 2 or 3 times when movies would cut out for a minute on my ps3, but that's deep in my basement and i figured it was a wireless network issue, as i'm still on 2.4 Ghtz.
When comparing two devices and one supports piracy better than the other, always bet on the one that sails the high seas. Where would the iPod be if it didn't support mp3s?
I love my Xtreamer. Best $99 I ever spent. I use it solely for streaming media from my file server, but it has some sort of capability for internet streaming as well. It'll play any format/container I've thrown at it. It's small and quiet. The company is very good about making updates/bugfixes available. I have absolutely no use for Apple or Google TV.
World doesn't revolve around you chap. Tivo is now a subscription service.
Sorry dude it's just not possible on the Premiere box. I have dealt with enough to know that if it's the Premiere it HAS TO BE eSATA and HAS TO BE MyDVD Expander from WD if you just plug and play it. Nothing, I mean NOTHING else will work unless you get third party apps to accomplish it. It's also pretty well documented across the internet and you will never find a instance where a Premiere box user will have the occurrence that "everything just worked". Same goes with the Tivo HD boxes. Look it up.
who is out there asking to add ANOTHER device to their living room and explain to everyone how to change the tv input source?
Why explain to everyone how to change the TV input source, when you can just buy a good universal remote that does the switching for you.
I love mine, my friends love theirs, and I've even set my parents up with one.
Hit "Watch TV" to watch TV, "Play DVD" to play a DVD, or "Listen to Radio" if you want to do that.
The remote remembers last-state of your appliances, and turns the appropriate ones on and off so that you only have on what you need. It then resets all of your inputs correctly (TV, Receiver, etc) to pipe your audio/video according to your setup.
The hardest part about using one was teaching my parents not to manually turn on/off the TV anymore, as the remote wouldn't then know the "last state". There's a help-button, though that will step-by-step attempt each operation and ask you to confirm when everythings working, in case you have luddites messing with things.
We'll be plugging our cheap Apple TV boxes into our Google-TV enabled HDTVs. The article misses the point that TVs will come with Google's offering built in, where Apple is too selfish to partner with anybody, ever, unless they eventually have their own Apple HDTV range. For a long time now HDTV makers have been putting more and more in to their TVs with DLNA, USB media, Streaming, YouTube etc, partly because consumer lounges already have too many boxes with blinking LEDs a pile of remotes and a tangle of cables back there. Apple kinda understood this by making their box as small as they could.
Google actually getting their kit *IN* Sony HDTVs is kind of a game over for Apple
Somehow Apple will still ten million boxes, but yet again they'll fail to rule the earth.
Manurfacturers rule in a huge TV industry, Google respects that, Apple doesn't realise just what it's up against.
After logging in slashdot still does not take you back to the page you were on. It's been that way for 20 years.
"I'm not seeing the point of an Apple TV for most people, it doesn't solve any problems. If they really want to stream content the easiest way would be to just buy a cheap HTPC and set up their favorite media center on it, and then they could play DVDs/Blu-Rays/Netflix/YouTube/etc all from one device."
Yeah just what you need another loud, hot big box computer to sit next to your tv....really, that's your solution? Really? Most people don't give a flying fuck about DVDs or Blurays or what you ma call its. They want to watch a movie. It's called on-demand. It's called streaming.
Do you understand anything? Grandma and Grandpa would be just as happy with an Apple TV where they rent a movie from the comfort of their own home and watch it on TV. No need to rent or buy.
And seriously, you don't need a separate computer to be your media server unless you are a retard that doesn't have a networked TV!
a proper solution would be able to detect state.
They are actually in the lead in internet set top boxes right now, at least for internet streaming. If you haven't heard of them or haven't checked them lately (I thought until recently that they were only Netflix boxes), they start at $60 for similar features to the new Apple TV, they already have 75+ apps/channels available (including Netflix, Amazon VOD, Pandora, MLB, NBA, NHL, etc), expected to increase to 100 by the end of the year, DLNA local media streaming feature is coming soon, Hulu+ also coming soon. It's really thriving and unquestionably the best deal for this type of device right now.
Oh, since this is Slashdot, you may also like to know that anyone can develop an app for it, with free tools in Windows/Mac/Linux, according to their developer page: http://www.roku.com/developer
Unfortunately, Apple's marketing might and fanboy army are probably going to crush them in the marketplace. Google probably won't be far behind either. Roku are also not helped by (to my understanding) not being available at brick and mortar retail stores, but you can get them at their own website, at Amazon.com and probably at other online retailers as well.
Wow, I remember my dad buying a Tivo in the mid 90's, back when external hard drive enclosures were either SCSI or Parallel.
Which of those has an SATA adapter available and which of those adapters works with Tivo?
APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
it doesn't have markings on it... i generally buy all my technology direct from china, and i've been using SATA exclusively since the late 90's. i bought my first tivo in 2001... another in 2003, and my tivo hd in 2008. all still function perfectly.
i've been using SATA exclusively since the late 90's
[Citation Needed]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_ATA
Assuming you mean 1999, when Tivo came out, you're still about 4 years early, guy.
APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
i still have all the hardware... old rackmount servers i bought to run some of my websites where airflow was an issue and i saw SATA as the solution.
This looks like what I'd like -- do you ever have it play DVDs from ISOs over SMB shares, and does it do it OK without barfing/freezing/etc?
That's what I'd like.
Mobile phones are coming with HDTV built in now. You plug it into your TV & audio system and play your media on a big screen.
Add a bluetooth keyboard and mouse as well and you've got a personal do everything computer in your pocket. Plus it makes phone calls.
e.g.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLJsPpNcEig
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AZh1X2Vj_0
Deleted
Considering that SATA didn't exist until 2003, I mean you're full of shit.
APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
Did you PAY for your "lifetime membership"? if the answer is yes (and we know it is) then you have a PAID SUBSCRIPTION to Tivo. Why is this concept so hard to understand? If it makes it any easier, divide the $200 you paid for the lifetime membership, and divide by how many months you have had it. The resulting number is what you are paying, PER MONTH for your subscription.
Now who is the idiot?
"But this one goes to 11!"
what did you buy 10 years ago? my only point is that i'm using hardware i bought before i bought my tivo to do things that people are claiming is impossible. it is not.
you're an idiot.
you're an idiot.
This looks like what I'd like -- do you ever have it play DVDs from ISOs over SMB shares, and does it do it OK without barfing/freezing/etc?
That's what I'd like.
I've played 1080P MKV's residing on a ReadyNAS raid array via NFS without issues. I've also used SMB with a standard defintion transport stream (.ts) file residing on an AZBox networked satellite receiver without issues.
I do most of my viewing from the local hard drive (1TB) because my Popcornhour box travels a lot. I use SMB to load the hard drive from where-ever and the backups are kept on the Raid array.
I use an HTPC for all my media viewing. All these various set top boxes just seem to the same thing while trying to provide a consumer friendly simple interface. Google TV appears to be a much more novel approach as it doesnt connect to an new port on your tv it sits in line between your cable/sat box and your tv providing an overlay that will enable you to enhance what your viewing on cable/sat, browse the internet, or stream all without changing your input. It will be very interesting to see how this will affect advertising on broadcasts opening the door for google selling ads based on what your watching and perhaps showing those ads instead of whats being broadcast.
If you want a link to the story, just ask. You don't need to post this kind of stuff to get the link:
http://www.theonion.com/articles/area-man-constantly-mentioning-he-doesnt-own-a-tel,429/
You paid money to Tivo at some point. How is that not a paid subscription?
Calling you an idiot would be overly generous, and very insulting to idiots.
"But this one goes to 11!"
Your claim was that you were using hardware you bought before Tivo existed. That means before 1999.
There were no SATA prototype boards in 1999.
What I bought 10 years ago is irrelevant, but I'll answer anyway. I bought components to build a high-end desktop with 2 dual-tuner capture cards that handled MPEG-2 encoding in hardware. It had no problem powering the 3 high-res displays on my desk AND a TV as a 4th display, simultaneously, and didn't bog down while recording 4 shows because it did the encoding in hardware. I could playlist what I wanted to watch as I worked and it would play back just fine in a window on one of my 3 screens. I could also playlist whatever my fiancee wanted to watch as I worked and it'd play back just fine on the TV. Fuck, I could even do both.
APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
my websites also have been using HTML5 since 2009... the spec probably won't be ratified until 2013... so i suppose in 2020 when i tell you i've been using HTML5 since 2009 you'll also call me a liar.
you are aware that SATA adapters exist, no?
is all you should ever need
I personally use one of those devices from Western Digital which are $50.
Why would you want to purchase crappy VoD services full of DRM and only providing a handful of stuff when you can get whatever you want and more in true high quality and without restrictions?
Yes, I'm quite aware that SATA adapters exist. In fact, I asked you where you found a SCSI or Parallel to SATA adapter in my first reply to you. You never answered.
Nobody (save for 802.11n chipset manufacturers, but we're talking software-driven radio here, which I'll address later) produces hardware based on an incomplete specification and sells it to the masses, mostly for fear of being sued to shit when the spec changes and your hardware fails.
You can get away with it in software because, well, you can issue an update for damned near free.
That said, no browser fully implements HTML5 at the moment and, as posted here yesterday, the W3C is urging people NOT to use HTML5 in production. I do web development full-time and intend to ignore that almost entirely; simple enough to develop an XHTML page and stack HTML5 on top of it so it degrades gracefully on browsers that don't support it, or if the spec changes.
It works the same way for 802.11n chipsets, as well. A draft 802.11n chipset, which is a software-controlled radio, can have a software update pushed to it. It also has 802.11g and 802.11b (possible 802.11a if it supports the band) to fall back on, so it won't fail completely if the spec changes.
It's really somewhat impossible to develop a completely new interface with a completely new connector and say "oh, we can release before the spec is finalized and fall back on the previous version if the spec changes" because there's no previous version of your new technology. So yeah, I'm pretty much saying you don't have a pre-spec SATA controller, fucktard.
SATA 2 and 3 were put into production pre-spec and that's fine, they had a previous version to fall back on if the spec changed. 1.0, released in 2003, did not.
I've backed myself up with sources. I'm closing up the Troll Diner for the night unless you can do the same; I've got some HTML5 to write.
APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
Or just get a networked BR player like the Sony BDP-S370 (many like this). Does all the streaming, DNLA, as well as BR/DVD. Then you don't need Apple TV for anything.
you're an idiot.
That doesn't really answer the question.
I also need a device that will stream DVDs from an iso format. I need tot urn on and off subtitles.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Popcorn hour supports toggling subtitles and audio streams via the remote and playing dvd and bluray isos. It really is a nice little solution.
HINT : I never, in any of my posts, stated
You also have to pay a monthly fee
Now you are beyond stupid, you are also a liar.
You also seem to be confused about Tivo - Tivo is a device, and also a service. The device does not work without the service. The service is not free. Whether you paid a large amount up front, a "lifetime membership", or you pay monthly, you are still paying for the service. The fact you do not pay every month has no bearing on the fact that you have paid for a subscription to the Tivo service.
"But this one goes to 11!"
you are NOTHING
Excuse me I meant to say MyDVR Expander and that is the only thing that will work with a Premiere. You just kept saying that yours is a HD device and inferred that since it is all HD Tivo's can connect to any external HHD. You also said you are connecting drives older then Tivo itself which would be impossible since even the HD box requires eSATA, then you went on to say you used a mac mini to stream iTunes, then said Tivo does it for you, etc. etc.
But yeah I'm the "idiot". Maybe you should go back and make sure what you are using and come back and post when you are quite sure and clear as to what you think you have.
No, but when one replies to a person, and uses a quote, generally the person you are replying to is the one that made the statement you are quoting. But I see now that normal conversation and thinking are WAAAAAYYY beyond your meager capabilities, so I am officially filing you in the shit bin. PLONK!
"But this one goes to 11!"
Popcornhour http://www.popcornhour.com/onlinestore/index.php?pluginoption=catalog is was ahead of the game. The model C200 networked media player will play back any file format and has provision for a local hard drive or blue ray drive.
The C-200 supports NFS, SMB, FTP, and multiple streaming protocols.
This looks like what I'd like -- do you ever have it play DVDs from ISOs over SMB shares, and does it do it OK without barfing/freezing/etc?
Another option you might want to look at is Patriot's $99 Box Office Media Player. I don't have one, but I just read about it in Anandtech's new Apple TV review as an alternative that "will play virtually everything you have, regardless of container or format."
The specs page lists support for UPnP streaming and "[MPEG-2] MPG/MPEG/VOB/ISO/TS/TP/M2TS", but this avsforum post indicates it might meet your needs. From the post:
TO START
PRESS ANY KEY
Where's the 'ANY' key? I see Esk, Kitarl, and Pig-Up...
That's true, but if I'm going to spend the money on one of those, then why wouldn't I just fork out a little bit extra and get a Mac Mini? The added advantage of a proper computer is well worth the extra dough and it'll run whatever OS I want. Going with Apple hardware doesn't tether you to iTunes.
"From the depths of my skeptical and rationalist soul, I ask the Lord to protect me from California touchie-feeliedom."
Really? Any format?
You and I define Any in an entirely different way.
You define 'Any' as a set that includes the ones you like, and ignores others because you like them.
I define 'Any' as any, which would include the custom format I use in some of my hardware projects, which I assure you, the C200 won't support anytime soon.
Stop being such a fanboy, and remember that 'Any' does not mean 'the types have need of', otherwise Microsoft is equally correct in saying 'Windows can play any file out of the box' because WMV is the only one that matters too him.
Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
Much like peoples desire for home theatre gear, that is something you just dont get.
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
Ya, set top boxes are nice, i'm sure.
I have a xbox 360, and when i get done with it's jtag hack (took a break from it, slight problems, stupid dvd drive eject button won't power the system), but I don't plan on using it for media streaming.
I do though, have my workhorse computer connect to my 1080p. I can browse the web, watch streaming crap if I wanted to (I don't, prefer to download then watch), shit, I can play games on it if I want. But then, my TV is like 3 feet from my computers, so using a mouse it's a big deal, as I have a table right there.
So I guess i'm not the consumer they are looking at, since I don't have a living room or family room (studio apartment).
But I do like the idea of Google TV sitting between the cable box & my TV. Why? Because I refuse to pay for the extras of cable, like DVR. Depending on the control you can have with Google TV, it might be nice. But honestly, I'll probably just use a computer, since I always have extra ones lying around.
Be seeing you...
Meh, I'll stick with my XTreamer thanks. Cheap, flexibly and useful.
Google TV vs Apple TV vs Going Out & Getting Some Fresh Air & A Social Life.
Gentoo Linux - another day, another USE flag.
I just bought a samsung 55 inch LED, it has two USB ports and a media player app built-in. Threw my MKVs and divxes at it, it would play everything.
VLC server, geexbox, XBMC, "plugging a computer into the teevee" and so on... They're obsolete to me now. Even my internet/TV provider's box has usb plugs and can read even the most obscure, piraty formats ever.
I'm kinda dubious towards this "technology". It would have been cool FIVE YEARS AGO!
I constantly mention I don't own a microwave.
Support my political activism on Patreon.
Since you were the only one to reply to my post, I figured I owed you a reply. After I wrote this post, I got to thinking about my netflix issue.
When I got home, I ran a couple tests with my setup and discovered that my Tivo wasn't the issue! It was a Video splitter-device I had connected to the TV. I removed it and my netflix issue disappeared. I feel kinda stupid for not suspecting that part sooner, but it really wasn't a high priority for me.
No. I'm debating the relevance of debating with someone who comes across like an immature 14 year old. You obviously have no desire to debate, yet you persist in replying to every single comment just to call the person who replied a "moron" or "idiot" because their anecdotal experience does not mesh with yours. You do this even when you claim your experiences are only "relevant to you".
Looking at this thread, it seems clear that it typifies what is wrong with debate in America. You have no desire to actually communicate (that being a communal thing), but only to say something. You just want people to read your text, you really don't want any input whatsoever, and, in fact, you would rather flame people with opposing experience than try to understand the difference.
If you are reading a debate, and see the phrase "you are an idiot", you know you stumbled on someone who is probably not worth the time and effort to pay attention to. Reading your replies, you very much seem to be frothing at the mouth, and bouncing up and down inanely.
I replied for two reasons, one (the naive reason) was to point this out to you, so perhaps someday you will attempt to engage in a rational discussion like a mature adult. The second was for shear amusement value, much the same reason that I am replying again.
Have a nice day.
A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government. -edward abbey
I love you!
A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government. -edward abbey
That is entirely possible. I'm glad you read Descartes!
A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government. -edward abbey
No, I'm a Howard. As in my name is Howard.
Well, thats a lie, but the rhyme was irresistible.
A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government. -edward abbey
I DO!
You make a nice specimen.
A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government. -edward abbey
I'll rephrase: Popcornhour advertises that it will "Play Anything"
These are the formats listed in the specifications:
Supported Media File Formats
Video containers:
MPEG1/2/4 Elementary (M1V, M2V, M4V)
MPEG1/2 PS (M2P, MPG, DAT, VOB)
MPEG2 Transport Stream (TS, TP, TRP, M2T, M2TS, MTS)
AVI, ASF, WMV
Matroska (MKV)
MOV (H.264), MP4, RMP4
Video Decoders:
XVID SD/HD
MPEG-1
MPEG-2 MP@HL
MPEG-4.2 ASP@L5, 720p, 1-point GMC
MPEG-4.10 (H.264) : BP@L3, MP@L4.0, HP@L4.0, HP@L4.1
WMV9 : MP@HL
SMPTE 421M (VC-1) : MP@HL, AP@L3
Audio Containers:
AAC, M4A
MPEG audio (MP1, MP2, MP3, MPA)
WAV
WMA
FLAC
OGG
Audio Decoders:
Dolby Digital
DTS
WMA, WMA Pro
MPEG-1 Layer 1, 2, 3
MPEG-4 AAC-LC
MPEG-4 HE-AAC
MPEG-4 BSAC
LPCM
FLAC
Vorbis
Audio Pass-Through:
DTS, DTS-HD HR, DTS-HD MA
Dolby Digital, Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby True HD
Other Formats:
ISO, IFO navigation
AVCHD navigation
Blu-ray** ready (requires addition of compatible BD-ROM and at least 2GB USB memory stick)
Photo Formats:
JPEG, BMP, PNG, GIF, TIFF
Subtitle Formats:
SRT, MicroDVD SUB, SSA, SUB/IDX
DRM
Cardea DRM (WMDRM-ND)
Janus DRM (WMDRM-PD)
Wow you must have some GREAT karma going. Guess it takes one to know one. I bow before your superior stupidness!
Why it does! Thank you!
My collection is complete now!
A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government. -edward abbey
you are NOTHING
That's true, but if I'm going to spend the money on one of those, then why wouldn't I just fork out a little bit extra and get a Mac Mini? The added advantage of a proper computer is well worth the extra dough and it'll run whatever OS I want. Going with Apple hardware doesn't tether you to iTunes.
Mac Mini is double or triple the price depending on which version you get. I looked at Mac Minis before I bought the Popcornhour but at the time, HDMI wasn't supported. It is supported in the current version.
a coward asking a man to man-up... you're an ignorant hypocrite. you are pathetic.
i am using a hard drive case i bought before i had ever seen a tivo. it works on my tivo hd, and has worked with 3 different hard drives.
Im more interested in the relationship between iOS 4.2 and the apple tv. Hopefully games can utilise the streaming video to apple tv. Imagine angry birds on a 60inch lcd *drools*