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The Matrix Re-Reloaded
derGoldstein writes "According to Keanu Reeves: ' Matrix 4 and 5 are coming.' At an event that took place at the London International School of Performing Arts, 'Reeves revealed that he met with the Wachowskis around Christmas. They told him that they completed script treatments for two more Matrix installments. They are planning to make the films in 3D and have already met with James Cameron to discuss the advantages and disadvantages of the technology. Reeves added that he's excited to return as Neo and promised that the treatments will truly revolutionize the action genre like the first Matrix film did.'"
Just...no. Stop it right now. Stop before something bad happens.
For the love of the great fire cactus.
Sad thing is, even though most people equate the two existing sequels to the experience of having a lightly chilled olive fork rammed into your eye this movie will get its audience. The first matrix was just that damn good that they can keep cranking out shitty sequels and people will watch them, knowing full well that they are going to suck.
In this same pseudo-anonymous letter we learn that Mr. Reeves is 'enthusiastic' about developing a Bill & Ted 3. And we're supposed to believe this? Neither the Matrix IV nor Bill & Ted III show up at hsx.com (which is usually really good about this stuff if it's actually in development). The only piece of news from this that is credible is the 47 Ronin film mentioned.
... or we can at least hope.
Mr. Reeves is a sequel whore committed to leaching money off of success or even moderate success. Fortunately, producers and directors (or maybe his agent) around him seem to be pushing him to new things like A Scanner Darkly or the aforementioned 47 Ronin -- even though these are already books or old films. The Matrix and Bill & Ted death throes will probably deflate just like Constantine 2
My work here is dung.
I've been waiting for two more Matrix movies ever since the last one came out in 1999!
the horror...
XKCD says it all. I'm in the rare minority that didn't see the second two movies, but I bet a lot more won't see the next two movies.
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
the first one was cool for the 1990's when computers were still kind of new and the tech was pretty cool. come middle of the next decade they will really have to have a good story to keep people interested. special effects won't do it anymore
The end of the last matrix was so bad most people pretend it doesn't exist (see Jar Jar). I think they realize everyone was left with a bad taste in their mouth as if they were expecting chocolate and got Mr Hanky.
If they're making 4 and 5, where are 2 and 3?
Surprise, asshole! I bet you never saw this coming, did ya?
Matrix 4: Scene: City streets
Neo and gang fight and shoot up the place.
Hot chick with pushup bra kisses Neo, Trinity looks disgusted.
More fighting and shooting.
Matrix 5: Scene: City streets
Neo and gang fight and shoot up the place.
Hot chick with pushup bra kisses Neo, Trinity looks disgusted.
More fighting and shooting.
... or perhaps I was watching a different movie....
http://xkcd.com/566/
Matrix 1 was a revolution. Bullet time was new and exciting, the whole "green rayban tint" throughout the movie gave it an eerie air (seriously, put on Raybans in the night, presto Matrix feeling), mix in hacker and kung-fu elements and presto instant geek movie.
The second was a weak copy (seriously, the alleged original script was better). The third was ... let's not talk about it, ok?
If they want to be revolutionary again, it has to offer more than "IN THREE DEE". This feature got very stale very fast, being too overused already after not even two years of existence.
Also, how do you want to continue this story? The rise of the machines again? Or are we going to get a moral story about how humans and machines should coexist, even more of a snorer than the third?
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Auuugh - if they want to "revolutionize" action movies again they'd better start with an idea as new and creative as the original Matrix movie. Flogging a horse they've already shot doesn't sound at all promising.
The second movie wasted way too much time in Zion but definitely had it's interesting bits, particularly the implications of the Architect's revelations and "impossible" events in the "real" world at the end, but they utterly scrapped all the interesting possibilities for nonsensical weirdness and pseudoreligion in the third (which had very little to redeem it that I can recall). If 4 and 5 are 3 all over again or worse...
More love drama and "talk philosophical nonsense so that you sound cool" on the way
The Matrix (1999) Told the story they wanted to tell. Sure we got a couple of videogames and animations out of it, but the main story is done. The savior is ready, the vitual world is well on its way to salvation. Adding up to this would only involve an invincible character, which is kind of hard to relate to. I say the Wachowski broth^H^H^H^H^H^Hs stick to making box office bombs, and stay away from the only thing they ever managed to get right at least until studios stop giving them money.
i just saw the first one...
....George Lucas is adopting the Wachowski brothers.
It can't come soon enough.
I am Slashdot. Are you Slashdot as well?
I don't see the sequels as bad or stupid.
;).
The idea that the machines want humans as batteries is just what Morpheus claimed. It may be true in the inner Matrix world, but may not be for the outer matrix worlds. Remember even in the first movie the question was asked: "What if when you woke up, you didn't know the difference between the dream world, and the real world?"
So my interpretation is the Oracle is trying to upgrade herself- she believes humans have something the machines don't. Think of the whole thing as a "hybrid/breeding program".
Neo is likely at least partly a machine[1] (and a special one). The Oracle gives Neo cookies to add features/upgrades at critical moments.
After each world iteration (you can see the previous Neos try and fail etc), Neo has a chance of becoming more human but crucially retaining the abilities of machines. Smith goes about merging with all the humans and other machines, including the Oracle (who still _somehow_ retains enough of herself to prompt Neo), and Neo merges with Smith.
If things go fine, the Oracle gets her upgrade... If things go wrong, as the Architect said, the Oracle is playing a dangerous game.
As you can see, there's still plenty of room for reasonable interpretations.
Of course the upcoming sequels could prove that it really was stupid
[1] FWIW, in the first movie the humans themselves mention "he's a machine" they weren't serious of course, but the film writers might be dropping hints.
My pants just got shorter!
K Man
10th Anniversary
http://xkcd.com/566/
WHOA!!!!! DUDE!
I thought they only ever made 1 movie, and it was good.
Wouldn't this technically qualify as a second? I sure hope they don't dirty the concept with some crazy machine war, or an oddly pointless death of Neo's love interest.
-Matt
--- Need web hosting?
AICN is a rumour site. It gets a lot of news pretty early but it's not about accuracy.
It may be completely made up. If it's not, all we have is a script. If they do decide they want to make this film, Keanu needs to be available. Even then, thousands of things could happen to prevent the film from being made.
It could happen but don't hold your breath over a rumour of an initial concept for a movie.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Movies, what the guy can not get anything else (oh I forgot they making money)
But I'm sure the joke is still funny the 17th time.
The scene shifts to a totally white endless floor without walls. Standing there is an overweight Morpheus in his trademark nosepinch sunglasses. On a table in front of him is a plate with some crumbs on it, next to a large bowl with something dark in it.
Neo arrives.
Neo: "Woah! Dude, how they gonna give me my eyes back in the real world?"
Morpheus: "You must think beyond what you believe, Neo"
Neo: "Oh man, here we go again. Shame you couldn't think beyond passing every burger joint you walked into for the last 10 years".
Morpheus: "It is my destiny"
Neo: "Look man, didn't Predators tell you anything? Some things should absolutely be left alone"
Morpheus: "I'd like to eat that chocolate gateaux now but I have a problem".
Neo: "Yeah? Like, whats that man?"
Morpheus: "There is no spoon".
Flogging a dead horse in 3D bullet time.
Whoa
how many facial mimics and expressions will he be doing in new episodes ? 4 ? 5 ?
...
in any case role of neo suits him well. however he should add 1 or 2 facial mimics to the existing ones for this movie.
well, matrix 4, 5, still better than probable saw XVIII - The reckoning
Read radical news here
im a VERY picky, VERY hard to please person, yet, even i didnt find the 2 sequels 'a fork rammed into my eye'.
it feels more like you are one of those people who dislike something when/if it becomes popular. substance over form, my friend, substance over form. see through the fog.
Read radical news here
With Matrix 1 being purely Buddhist, part 2 going Confucian, and part 3 painfully going Christian, which religion of the thousands remaining will they choose to draw parallels/exploit?
Just speculation here.
The MMO The Matrix Online was supposed to be "the official continuation of the storyline of the Matrix series of films". My question is how this will fit in with the new films. Do the films take place after the events of The Matrix Online, before it, at the same time, are they a retelling of the game story, or is the game story going to be thrown out completely? If they will be considered one big questions is where is Morpheus considering he died during The Matrix Online.
- Keanu spoke about the need to encourage writers to continue to focus on working on new ideas and that a good script was worth its weight in gold. For example he said the Wachowski's had just sold the most expensive script in history to Warner Brothers. a modern futuristic take on the legend of "Robin Hood". Says he understands WB paid $5 million for the rights and that from what the wachowski's have told him, it will be an action movie that would have the same impact visually and technically that Terminator 2 had. Confirmed that Will Smith has agreed ti headline the picture.
Would be that how the Wachowsky brothers would write the Wikileaks movie?
a lot of you are disliking the sequels, and bashing them, because at that point the movie had had become popular in mainstream and everyone was talking about it.
... start bashing something when it becomes popular ..
they WERE good movies. compare those two to the other movies from the last 80 years of moviemaking, and they will come up better than a lot of the movies you would vouch for, because they havent been so popular.
this is one vice of geek crowd
nothing changed in between the franchise being popular, and you starting bashing it. its promise was the same, its storyline was the same, it even seeded the chain of events properly in the first one quite straightly that one could easily guess what would have to happen based on that chain of events. and they did.
holy crap. give those people a break. had there been less baseless bashing, there would have been more quality content.
Read radical news here
Is this like Star Wars where they're starting with episode 4? Because it's a shame they haven't made more than 1 Matrix movie yet...
What he said...
If someone is passing you on the right, you are an asshole for driving in the wrong lane.
The first movie is awesome, and the second movie is awesome, but the third? Fix it.
Didn't Neo die at the end? So am I right in thinking these will take place some time after 1 and before 2&3?
A 3-hypermatrix!
People are too quick to stop stuff that is already in motion. But I say if it isn't your money....let's see where this is going. There is only a small chance that it might break the world, and a lot bigger chance that it should be comedic gold.
Recall that _Highlander_3_ opened with our hero sitting in an ornate chair, looking straight at the audience, and flatly stating (in so many words) that the previous movie* didn't exist and they were starting this sequel about 10 minutes before the original film ended.
(* - aka _Highlander_2:_The_Sickening_)
Can we get a "-1 Wrong" moderation option?
Wasn't the poor reception of the third enough to warn them away from making any more?
a holodeck? At least that would make the 3D actually 3D.
http://transformativeworks.org/
A tensor?
I just want to be entertained by an action flick. If I want to be moved, I'll see The King's Speech again.
There's all kinds of room for a Matrix prequel. We really don't quite know how Neo begins to question the Matrix, and of course who got out first. Or if they were just survivors from the initial enslavement. Which means another prequel to explain the rise of the machines. Oh, wait, that's another movie. No, wait, plot is pretty much the same, just change a few things and it's fine. After all, how many action plots are there? Four? Gimme another big-budget Bond movie anyways, the weapons are actually better and the villains much more believable.
If these turn out to be sequels instead, well, then they will probably explore life outside the Matrix in more detail. Grime and clever hacks sounds like another installment of Riddick, but it will be beautiful. Prequels mean more intellectualism. Sequels mean more action effects.
I'll see them. Hell, they remade Tron and nobody died out here in meatspace because of it. So far as I know.
Oh, when do we get the nedt two Star Trek movies? They need to put Vulcan back together, for starters. And Chris Pike needs his close-up.
deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
More robot uprisings......IN 3D
.....except in the prequel to the Matrix, it's Morpheus' retarded little brother played by Chris Rock.
I'm still looking forward to a set of bad Matrix sequels than any other sci-fi I've seen in the last few years.
The concept is a traditional Asian-anime "The Oppressed Becomes The Oppressor"
From the Animatrix pre-shorts:
1. Humans use robots as their slaves
2. Some robots start to 'break free'
3. Robots form city
4. Humans try to wipe out city
5. Robots almost get taken out but resist at the brink (nice asian "X commands the resources of an entire planet but Y by its bravery just barely resist" theme)
6. The weapon of humans backfires and almost wipes out both parties, but hurts the humans more than the robots
Cycle:
1. Robots use humans as their slaves
2. Some humans start to 'break free'
3. Humans form city
4. Robots try to wipe out city
5. Humans almost get taken out but resist at the brink (nice asian "X commands the resources of an entire planet but Y by its bravery just barely resist" theme)
6. The weapon of robots (Agent Smith) backfires and almost wipes out both parties, but hurts the robots more than the humans (I believe the point made that Agent Smith would keep expanding until he had taken over the entire Matrix wasn't sufficiently emphasised in the films, but that's aside)
Throw in a 'resistance instead of slavery' aka Spartacus in the mix: The world is made so that you can choose between certain survival in slavery or almost certain death in fighting for freedom, and Neo unlike his predecessors chooses freedom. The "glitch in the matrix" is the desire for freedom over slavery.
Neo then "breaks the cycle" into a new era of coexistence.
Hence some fancy films and fancy effects, but the themes are pretty basic.
people loved the original star wars trilogy
so they go into subsequent movies with very high expectations. the second trilogy of star wars, or matrix 2&3: these were ok movies, no big deal
but if you go into these movies with almost religious ecstatic expectations, you are severely disappointed, and then proceed to howl about it
and so normal folk, who just want to be entertained, and are not worried about a matrix 4, must suffer the fanboy and his practically religious fundamentalist denunciations
in short: matrix 4? ok, whatever, says the well-adjusted person
the fanboy basement dweller: the idea of matrix 4 gets you rabidly upset
GET. A. LIFE.
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
Please, for GOD'S SAKE, make this one not suck. The first one was unquestionably one of the best sci fi movies ever made, in the top ten at least. But the second two were just shamefully horrible.
That is all.
The FIRST matrix movie was based heavily on "Ghost in the Shell". Now that the Wachowskis have watched "Serial Experiments Lain" and/or ".Hack", they are ready to do more.
Also, have you ever considered that "The Terminator" and "The Matrix" are EXACTLY the same plot, just that one takes place inside Skynet and the other outside Skynet? Combine the two, and you end up with the basic plot to William Gibson's "Neuromancer"?
Frankly, for all of you spouting about how great and original the first Matrix was, the only thing original about it was that it combined a lot of existing tropes in a way *you* never saw before. And the reason the sequels were so bad is that they didn't have time to rip off as much anime as they did the first time around. (The Gundams in the third film were a dead giveaway though).
But since then, they've had plenty of time to rip off cyberpunk anime. So, they might not be as bad as #2 and #3... But who knows?
If telephones are outlawed, then only outlaws will have telephones.
In general, a tensor.
"but there's no rational basis whatsoever for him being fucking telekinetic in the real world." - wrong
Didn't you notice the huge metal plate / computer interface grown into the back of his skull since childbirth?
He probably has a wireless router in there, which explains how he was able to interact with machinery.
Not everything in the future needs direct wired connections ya know.
If you want to talk sequel whores there are others that are worse such as [...] the main cast of Harry Potter
Do you really think a 7-year story like this could reasonably have been condensed into one 2-hour film? You might as well call the actors in The Lord of the Rings films sequel whores. And you might as well call the cast of any TV series sequel whores.
The reason I know damn well that the Wachowskis aren't any good at making movies is that I saw Ninja Assassin on HBO. What a steaming pile of garbage. In the last decade they made the following films:
The Matrix Reloaded
The Matrix Revolutions
V for Vendetta *didn't direct*
Speed Racer
Ninja Assassin
The only film there which I could even stand(I'll admit, I didn't see Speed Racer") was the one they didn't direct. Maybe if they put the Matrix in the hands of a different director I would be willing to give it a chance, but I'm really not feeling it if they're the primaries on this one.
How many people have all 3 movies on DVD?
How many have all 3 on Blueray?
It seems to me that by releasing yet more Matrix sequels, this long after the originals, will cause many to update their existing collection to Blueray versions.
Matrix 4 - The Matrix Strikes Back (at your wallet)
Matrix 5 - I saw all 5 moves and all I got was this stupid merchandise.
Then comes the platinum super-ultra-mega special edition collection. Shortly followed by the "Directors Cut", and the limited special edition action-figure release.
"Lame" - Galaxar
Not a table.
interactive hologram, or it didn't happen.
Awesome! Can't wait! The entire trilogy is quite good, if you watch all 3 movies in a row and don't wait through multiple years of hyped up marketing expectations for #2 and #3. The story simply never finished in #1. And while #3 did conclude things, it left a lot of questions unanswered. I like the idea suggested on another thread here that everything we thought was real in the original trilogy might actually be another layer of The Matrix. :)
-Clio
Karma: Bad (mostly from not giving a fuck)
Blog: http://clintjcl.wordpress.com
What does Keanu Reeves have to do with performing arts, and why did they let him speak at that school?
Let me guess: You didn't like The Odyssey, Amazing Grace, The Blind Side, or Sintel, all of which begin in the middle.
You can criticize the movies all you want, but you can't deny that the producers made more more money off of them than you will ever make in your entire life.
If they really need to do a 4th and 5th, perhaps it should open with Neo waking up after a bad reaction from having taken the Blue pill in the first movie...then we can all just pretend that the 2nd and 3rd were just figments of his imagination.
Someone tried to convince me that there was a real Matrix 2, but when I watched The Matrix Reloaded, I realized it was just a porno spoof. I mean, seriously, would a real movie spend THAT much time switching between a sexy-hot party and a sexy-hot sex scene?
By "the rave scene" I mean the one immediately following the address by Morpheus to the people of Zion, and then everyone dances and Trinity and Neo go off by themselves (ahem). This scene received a storm of bad commentary. People said, "that scene sucked," or, "it was way too long," or, most often, "that scene was totally unnecessary."
Oh, how wrong. It's not that the story information in this scene could not have been presented differently. But the scene did its job very well. (To be fair, I have seen a lot of people "get" this scene, but still not like it. Clue stick: life is dirty.)
First, just as we enter this scene we see that it is in a kind of temple. No fancy interpretation necessary: this is a spiritual event. That initial view means everything that happens for the rest of the scene should be interpreted as having spiritual significance. And here are the highlights:
The feet on the ground means that Zion is on Earth. Plain and simple. This parallels the Architect scene, and gets to the main thesis. We are cast out of the "perfection" of Heaven and living in the Real World. Symbolically, the Matrix is Heaven. Cypher makes this point in the first movie. The Real World is hard, dirty, and uncomfortable. The Matrix is, well, paradise. This point is made again in the first movie by Agent Smith, who calls the Matrix "the perfect human world" [paraphrased]. Recall that the Architect scene happens in utterly clean, utterly white perfection[1].
The Biblical reference is clear enough. Neo, Trinity, Morpheus, and the rest of Zion have rejected God's Garden of Eden where all their needs are taken care of in favor of a hard, scrabbling existence where at least they have free will.
A minor diversion: This is how we come to interpret the serpent in the Garden as the inventor (or hacker, or technologist). The serpent is the catalyst for curiosity and the invention of agriculture. He asks significant questions, of the form: "God gave you such-and-such rules. Given those rules, should not such-and-such a result be possible?" The reason he posits questions like that is because he has to. On Earth, you will either inventor you will perish. [Diversion from the diversion: I understand such figures (e.g., the serpent, Loki) to be abstract models of parts of our own psyches. So this part of Genesis really means that a human being or group of human beings will begin spiritual growth by asking the type of questions posed by the serpent. Taken another way, God wants us to be curious, rational, and...well, to apply the scientific method.]
Now about the sexuality of the dance. Morpheus' speech before the dance helps us interpret the meaning of the dance: we are in the Real World of flesh and blood and dirt and animal instinct. This is not Heaven where divine, passionless entities "do what they are there to do." (There is entirely another thesis in those words.) This is Passion and Feeling. The first interview with the Merovingian included an "orgasm sequence" meant to make a point about free will. But did you notice how the orgasm played out? It was explosive but mechanical. Not anything like the animal lust of the dance scene. In Zion, we see human beings neither rejecting their animal selves, nor completely giving over to their animal selves either -- it is a human activity with choice and rhythm and purpose, but also filled with basic impulses. In other words, they are reveling in their humanity.
Another diversion: I hate to do this again, but I don't want the point to get away. Mythology of all stripes teaches that we are between worlds. The very Nordic concept of "Middle Earth" means literally "in the middle between the animal world and the divine world." To be human is to sta
Neo's dead. It took Trinity's love to bring him back last time.
Trinity is dead
How do we get here from there? The world's been saved and the path forward has been laid out for both sides to see. Morpheusis alive and can act as an apostle, guiding the humans. What is the purpose in re-incarnating our saviour figure again?
I am cautiously optimistic about this. While the two sequels lost something during production, they did display a large amount of planning and intelligence on the part of the creators.
There are two things I am curious about: how can they involve Neo? We saw virtually his entire life outside of the matrix, a matter of mere months compressed into the three films, which seemed to end with his death.
Second thing: Will this explain how Neo has powers in the real world? He could see Smith and he tele-electrocuted at least one sentinel, where he isn't supposed to be practically any different from any other human. There is the whole matrix-in-a-matrix idea, where Neo hacks the 'real world', but what could they do after that?
I envision this is going to be like Highlander. Start with mediocre film with some clever ideas and generate crappy sequels which ignored each other.
I think it was called "Tron: Legacy", or something like that.
Lurking in the desert
Its April already?!?!
First, the actors have all aged considerably. That magic bullet time effect would have to account for some beer guts now, which I'm afraid means that not only do the actors have to contort themselves away from the bullet in slo mo, but the bullet will have to change trajectory to hop over the flab. (Maybe the flab can contort into a pancake shape, but that's NOT something I want to see). I can't imagine a way that would be pretty.
Two, Neo's dead. I didn't get most of what happened in the last movie, who the oracles were, or actually what happened at all, but I got that Neo's ass died and he became a sunset or something.
Mostly though, Three: the damned machines were right all along! I didn't know that until animatrix (canon) showed that the machines had some reason to be pissed (they were human's slaves; we tried to kill them); they didn't kill humans but used their energy and gave them a happy. That bit of backstory sorta ruined the franchise for me.
And 4. Whatever tech the Wach Bros do in the 3D movies will be used in every single movie, even chick flicks, for the next ten years. They should pat themselves on the back for bullet time and retire.
and he has a plan?
Good idea:
revolutionize the action genre like the first "Matrix" film did
Bad idea:
They are planning to make the films in 3D
I mod down anyone who says "I will be modded down for this", regardless of the rest of their comment
The matrix left high concept Sci Fi and became more comic gothic and set piece action oriented as it went along. The reason people hated it was because people who like physics based sci-fi are not comfortable with meta-physics and fantasy sci-fi or at least don't like it when expecting one and get served the other.
The original compelling mystery and challenge were exposed so new meta physical plots and myth had to be injected. Perhaps the problem was they invented these in a way that tried to hold the patinia of hard core physical sci-fi but was utterly transparent and ill fitting. For example I like Larry Niven and I liked watching Lord of the RIngs. But I'd not like both in the same soup.
People had similar complaints about the evolution of Battelstar gallactica, though there it the conversion was not so complete.
But if you stand back and just look at these gloriously filmed movies all you can say is Wow. No matter how the story morphed the results were just screen filling action mayhem. And I want to see more for sure. I'll still complain the Reeves is a wooden pole of an actor, though to be fair he's hamstrung now by the deification. We all liked him better when he was less of a god and more of a confused apprentice. But he's just a prop. I don't have to like him to like the movie.
These will be fantastic in 3D.
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
At least in Terminator, the machines wanted to kill humans dead and were clearly the bad guys; and time travel explained the prophecies and was somewhat understandable.
In Matrix, humans used machines as slaves, tried to kill them, EPIC FAILED. Machines used us for energy, but gave us a happy reality. They were not one-dimensional bad guys (—and they got screwed in the end). And I still don't understand who/what the Oracle is, why Neo was The One, and why he was a sunset in the end.
How about actually making a movie based on Neuromancer (like the original Matrix was supposed to be) instead of yet another bad sequel to Matrix?
Cheers,
Dave
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither safety nor liberty.
Ben
Jennifer Tilly and Gina Gershon in 3-D? I'm there. We're talking $100M box office, easy.
.
Prisencolinensinainciusol. Ol Rait!
The first Matrix movie was memorable. It played on rather simplistic metaphysical concepts but I still found it quite a bit more engaging than the usual action/sci-fi movie.
I didn't expect much from the sequels. However, with the exception of a few cringe-worthy scenes I found them entertaining. Certainly not memorable in the least as the two sequels were a blur of action punctuated some nonsensical exposition. There were a few moments where some potential showed through, but really they're not the sort of movies you're supposed to invest a whole lot of thought in.
Certainly, the new Star Wars trilogy was much worse and much more offensive in terms of dialog and storytelling. Transformers, the first I haven't yet seen the sequel, was quite terrible despite the fact that it was entertaining to watch giants robots fight. So in the scheme of things the Matrix sequels aren't that bad, or at least no worse than the crap that is usually pumped out of Hollywood.
the main cast of Harry Potter
Is the cast of LOTR a bunch of sequel whores too in your eyes? That was a pretty dumb inclusion.
PLEASE erase this post before someone from Hollywood reads it. PLEASE.
Weaselmancer
rediculous.
Sooo last decade. It's 2011, what's next?
- Tired to see me again and again, Mr. Anderson?
Agent Smith
You realize that by the time Harry Knowles and his crew finish frothing over this, it won't matter if the Wachowski's film two hours of Keanu staring at a sandwich, we'll all go see it.
Well...I will.
That's pretty surprising, to be honest. I thought the only things they were en masse hateful of, cinema-wise, were the attempts of George Lucas to constantly profit on his first 3 Star Wars movies over and over again.
I subscribe to the idea that the Matrix Trilogy is indeed a great trilogy, but... only if you don't consider it a trilogy. Why? Because to fully understand the Matrix story, you not only have to have seen The Animatrix (short series of animated Matrix stories that directly tie into films 2 and 3), but played the video game "Enter the Matrix" which has quite a bit of cinematic cut-scenes (movie quality) that fill in a TON of holes in the first sequel, second film.
If you were to watch it all in this order:
1) Movie 1
2) Movie 2
3) Enter the Matrix
4) Animatrix
5) Movie 3
I'm pretty sure your opinion would be quite favorable.
While I understand that lots of people hated 2 and 3 because they had almost nothing to do with the original story line, that story just ended-- all stop. Some people are content with that while others, like myself, HATE it when a story ends with a giant climax and refrains from describing what happened with life afterwards. I mean, come on, Neo kills agents and surely makes the machine consider humans as a threat... THE END.
Note: I love shows/stories that ARE an afterward. The show "Jericho" was all an afterward. World War Z is one giant afterward. The story of the Matrix would have been shallow crap if it wasn't for all the story development that came after.
I hope this is just a buzzinga..
That's what I thought too. They were still in the matrix. How else could Smith move from one to the other? HE'S A FUCKING COMPUTER PROGRAM.
And it only makes sense. The mystery guy they refer to in the first Matrix who "freed the first of us" and could "reshape the matrix to how he wished". Remember him? When he freed the first of the resistance fighters, who was piloting a ship to catch them and keep them from drowning??? You've got a chicken-and-the-egg problem there. I thought it was a given that they were still in the matrix.
My third movie would have had Neo be the first guy to figure that out - the "outside world" is still the matrix. The matrix does nothing but generate realities to keep you from questioning where you are. And the reason why the matrix is doing this? What's the point?
Earth was destroyed in a war with the machines and the machines won. But they're not the bad guys. We got scared and fired first, nuked them and made the world inhospitable to humans. The machines hold no animosity towards us. The situation saddened them, they understand how we could be scared and do such a thing, and they don't hold it against us. In a way they think of us as parents and believe we are worth saving. So they made a colony ship to send the surviving humans to another habitable world. They don't want us to die, but they realize we can't live together because of human nature. But unfortunately it will take eons to make the trip. So they made a people farm, and a matrix to keep us from going bonkers on the long trip to our new home.
Weaselmancer
rediculous.
An Excel workbook
If you're going to make movies, make movies. Requiring people to go to multiple other media to understand the movies is a recipe for failure. Most people expect the series of movies to form a coherent storyline without any important 'missing bits'. I don't mind video games, comic books, or short animations, but they should add to the universe in such a way that it doesn't leave holes in the main story told in the 'primary media'.
3D is Hollywood-speak for "thin plot and pretty lights"
It is kinda famous for that.
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
That's a quality seen in very few Hollywood-made productions. The second and third were decent, but predictable action flicks.
More on the transcendence is needed if the sequels were to match the original.
Personally, I wish the sequels would go deeper into the "harvesting humans" but come from a more rational angle like the one portrayed in the Hyperion Cantos wherein the transportation portals were used to harvest human thought energy in the brain.
Machines have plenty of energy (fusion/fission/solar), why "harvest" humans who are a net energy loss? Clearly for their unique processing power.
Make sure everyone's vote counts: Verified Voting
Earth was destroyed in a war with the machines and the machines won. But they're not the bad guys. We got scared and fired first, nuked them and made the world inhospitable to humans. The machines hold no animosity towards us. The situation saddened them, they understand how we could be scared and do such a thing, and they don't hold it against us. In a way they think of us as parents and believe we are worth saving. So they made a colony ship to send the surviving humans to another habitable world. They don't want us to die, but they realize we can't live together because of human nature. But unfortunately it will take eons to make the trip. So they made a people farm, and a matrix to keep us from going bonkers on the long trip to our new home.
That's awesome - you may have given the Wachowskis a way out of the 2&3 mess. They should hire you as creative consultant.
I found the ending of #3 depressing, since as soon as Neo turned into Magic Glowy Neo, it was given that he'd never escaped The Matrix. Y'know, because humans can't actually do that.
But I think as obvious as that was, almost everybody missed it.
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
It is a single story. With a single beginning and a single conclusion.
Like the book it was made from.
Harry Potter movies are all (except the last two) "one story per film" deal.
You know... more like Indiana Jones and less like Star Wars. The difference being that the Empire Strikes Back leaves the story hanging unresolved.
Each Harry Potter and each Indiana Jones in contrast could be the ending of the series.
Oh sure. If you are a fan you are emotionally invested into further stories but as a casual observer you can be satisfied with just one.
ANY one.
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
At the end of the 3rd one, it was clear the story line was finished, I wonder how they plan to bring back the characters.
Is this where we find that Neo is from the Planet Zeist?
Years ago people were 'shopping movie posters, and my fave:
The Matrix Reborn
"Sometimes a woman is a kind of religion, she can save your soul & set you free from all your sins" - Bad Examples
Sounds like for many of you the movies flew right over your heads. You should check this out.
http://www.matrixresolutions.com/
Actually, that's why I'm looking forward to Matrix 4. Whatever they do it will be entertaining. Either they actually write a decent movie and ignore the worst parts of parts 2 and 3 and we end up with something that can be called a worthy sequel to part 1. Or they create a train wreck that appeals to the bad movie crowd. Either way we win.
Of course they could create a solidly mediocre movie that appeals to no one. That's the only remaining danger and I hope it won't come to pass.
Actually, they should make it like Speed Racer. Unneccessary special effects up the wazoo, a story that doesn't make sense but doesn't need to and John Goodman beating the snot out of some ninjas. The Matrix universe is a lost cause anyway so let's just make a movie that dares to be stupid. In fact, put it right on the poster: "Matrix Re-violenced. The machines thought they had won the war - but they never expected us to use violence!"
USE HOT GRITS WITH STATUE OF NATALIE PORTMAN (NAKED AND PETRIFIED)
PLEASE erase this post before someone from Hollywood reads it. PLEASE.
Relax dude, Everybody knows that nobody in Hollywood is smart enough to know how to read,,,
HA! I just wasted some of your bandwidth with a frivolous sig!
Dude, I thought at the end of 2 that they were going to go with a "you idiot, they're still in the matrix, the solution to people not being able to handle it was just to fool them into thinking they had escaped so they'd stop fighting it" approach.
I always thought the most awesome ending for the trilogy would be if they showed the architect and the oracle talking at the end of the film, and then do a slow fade to a shot of Neo still in his little cocoon, plugged into the matrix, implying that the whole adventure was just a simulation and another level of control. It would have been an awesomely black ending that would have made up for all the goofiness in the second and third film.
HA! I just wasted some of your bandwidth with a frivolous sig!
What I like about The Matrix 1:
- innovative cinematography (not just bullet-time, but the fish-eye lens look in the interrogation room, the roof chase scene)
- how the story started tightly packed and unraveled as it went, with mind-blowing revelations along the way
- how they continually illustrated, in a sort of build-up, the power of the agents
- it made you think about the real world and how plausible the matrix could be
- Keanu's "whoa", surfer-dude personality really fit the character as his eyes were opened to the truth
- Morpheus and Agent Smith's manner of speaking
- the first scene with the Oracle (vase breaking, etc.)
It was just an awesome movie... I hadn't felt that way watching a movie since watching Terminator 2 for the first time.
Matrix 2 and 3 were just okay for me. I'm optimistic about 4 and 5, but I hope they really try and innovate again, take the story in new directions (some of the comments on this thread sound really interesting).
The Matrix Episode IV: A New Hope
I honestly liked the 2nd and 3rd movie. The first one was the best, sure, I was really blown away, it was amazing! I didn' t know at that time they would make sequels. When I saw the sequels (and then even spin-offs like the Animatrix), I was excited for the movies to grow more depth and take a direction. The first movie was ambiguous, and nice, all around AWESOMETASTIC movie but the rest of the movies added some kind of direction so that the Matrix world could gain depth in other aspects.
During the 1st movie I wondered, "Where the hell is Zion?", "What will Neo do?" etc. etc. which, those questions were answered to me in the sequels. I'm GLAD they're making more movies, I do wonder what happened to Neo, am I the only one to notice that he did not die? Was I the only one to notice the allegation that the world they thought was "real" was just another Matrix shell? A virtualization within a virtualization within a virtualization? Therefore making the movie even trickier, and more involved???? Seriously guys, the first movie left me hanging, wanting to know more about this world, and what happened etc. The sequels made me want to know, what happened to Neo? What happened to the other Matrices and how was it that there were 5 different, same looking "Neos" before this one?
As for the Star Wars movies and whatever else you guys complained about, you should stop being so damn judgmental. Again, the first three movies (the original Trilogy) was great, was ground-breaking, was all W0000ho000. I loved it, I fell in love with star wars and the whole franchise. I'm currently reading several Star Wars books. But to be honest, the best stuff, the best games/story-lines came out after the new trilogy.
I watched all six of them the other day and while the new trilogy kept me in suspense and got me really interested (yes, even Clone Wars), the old Trilogy did not capture my attention as much. Don't get me wrong, I loved it, but i have to admit, I also loved the prequels too.
I think a lot of people are hung up on stuff from "their" time and cannot accept change or the newness of things. Does it bother you that kids are enjoying the new Star Wars? Does it bother you that they made a cartoon Star Wars that's completely irrelevant to the old Trilogy? Seriously guys, get over this. Star Wars content will keep on coming, and it will keep on changing.
The 3rd movie pretty much pounded the wooden stake in pretty solidly, I can't imagine it reasonably coming back to suck even more. (But if it does, it will...)
How can they do The Matrix 4 and 5, when they never did a 2 or 3?
Let me explain: I did see Matrix Reloaded and Matrix Revolutions, but those movies seemed to be a cheap ripoff of The Matrix, with the same cast and amazing visuals but with crappy plot and dialog. So, I consider it like Higlander: I am still waiting for them to produce a sequel. Highlander II was never made. Likewise, there was no Superman III or IV, no Rocky IV or V, and there was no Star Trek IV.
The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
"The reason people hated it was because people who like physics based sci-fi are not comfortable with meta-physics and fantasy sci-fi..."
The idea of an ultra-sophisticated system able to enslave the human race that can only be defeated by virtual-reality karate fighting was what did it for me.
Yes it would be much better to have computers that spit sparks and say things like "This does not compute" before they explode. C'mon this is hollywood. Like always have to assume that what you see on screen is just some insane metaphor or the retelling of a legend filtered through error prone retelling for 1000 years.
On top of this, it's an action comic. Of course computers systems must have karate fight. it would be pretty boring to watch otherwise.
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
I don't get it.
THE ANIMATRIX! Hell yeah!!!
http://nathanlindsell.blogspot.com/
Looks like no one will be taking the red pill again anytime soon. Over the weekend, reports surfaced that during a talk at the London International School of Performing Arts, actor Keanu Reeves revealed, among many other things, that the Wachowskis had finished a two picture treatment for more "The Matrix" sequels with an eye to do it in 3D. One little problem however. Keanu Reeves never gave that talk. We reached out to reps for the actor and were told that "none of it is truehe did not speak nor get an award from the from the London International
A rank 3 tensor?
Could we hope that 4 will start with Neo opening his eyes and realizing 2 and 3 were just a dream?
I hated the first movie because it tried to present some sort of metaphysical philosophy to it, which was nothing new compared to Dark City, Bladerunner, Ghost in the Shell, etc.. (in fact, it was originally inspired by Ghost in the shell). Nice special FX, but no new ideas.
When the second and third installments came out, i figured out that it WASN'T meant to be a preachy philosophical rant, and that it was only meant to lightly touch on the various ideas, as if you were going through a Philosophy 101 class, or shopping at a mall of Philosophy. Instead, it used anime inspiration as a vehicle for creating a just plain kick-ass action trilogy - a bit of existential philosophy from Ghost in the Shell, futuristic motorcycle racing like Akira, giant drilling machines attacking underground cities like Neon Genesis, high-flying fighting like Dragonball Z, and so much more.
It wasn't meant to be taken as seriously as all the nerds took it. It was a light-hearted anime series in 3 movies. That is all.
That's why the whole series was so brilliant.
If you wanted a single philosophical narrative, there are plenty of other traditional, non-edgy sci-fi movies for that.
Many elements of a great film or story are accidental or gain from their vague nature - its the interpretative parts that make up good ART. Its intriguing and inspiring when done correctly. The genius is not in creating every perfect detail viewers notice its in knowing what to leave OUT (a somewhat similar concept to the importance of negative space - but this is mental negative space.)
Star Wars benefited greatly by constraints and people standing up to an idiot producer with good general concepts who was not yet corrupted by commercial aspects of his profession. But also, in extending it even without the huge influences outside the art form you have a destructive pattern that emerges:
Problem is that when making sequels an editing of the success occurs to try to maximize the good parts (in opinion) and even worse they try to please demographics by highlighting everything surveys point to. They lose contrast because the low points make the high points better. Usually when something is hugely popular the exact reasons are not known but it is dissected and the "good" parts are copied and they try to make them even bigger as if that will make the whole work better-- but it was the whole work that people liked and it was influenced by the elements less popular.
The matrix had plenty of good philosophy tie ins as well as political etc-- it was fine on its own; it was asking a lot to meet that level and EXTEND it further. Animal Farm was a great book; Animal Farm 2 wouldn't likely have the depth of knowledge to draw from to make the connections and take it further at the same level - that is more difficult than doing the 1st one.
Its all just a machine that uses plot books like the sitcoms and soaps do and highlights the elements the survey's said were "cool" largely just using the world previously imagined with quite often uncreative additions and extensions to the existing work.
I wish somebody would make sequel versions of famious paintings to illustrate my point...
Democracy Now! - uncensored, anti-establishment news
According to this source, circulating on twitter, it's been debunked.
http://screenrant.com/matrix-4-5-bill-and-ted-3-keanu-reeves-rob-97796/
Important stuff
I can almost guarantee that the plot will involve some contrivance of Neo coming back to see his followers inside and outside of the Matrix completely missing the point of what he did and why. It only makes sense in the Gnopstic tradition the films represent. It also makes sense as a critique of modern Christians and their guru. To quote Jim Gaffigan on the Protestant/Catholic conundrum “See those people over there with almost identical beliefs as mine? I want to kill them because my god is all about love!”
I ENJOYED THE MATRIX FILMS! The first one was the best but I loved the action sequences in part 2, and the special affects in part 3. They were entertaining! People complain about these movies but look at the 2nd Star wars trilogy! Talk about overrated, Part III was the best but Hayden Christensen's was as lousy as ever! Yet that series made record dollars, go figure? All because people love the original Star Wars and the characters.
However, I am very skeptical of a part 4 & 5. As decent as the first 3 films were, they are bound to push it too far and make some really bad movies here. This could be rumours or the Brothers are desperate?
[UPDATE: The Senior Administrator for the London International School of Performing Arts informed me that Keanu Reeves made no appearance there. DEBUNKED]
hey are planning to make the films in 3D and have already met with James Cameron to discuss the advantages and disadvantages of the technology.
Isn't that like asking Steve Jobs the advantages of Apple OS's, or asking the pope the advantages and disadvantages of Christianity? I.E Biased. Anyone who knows anything Cameron has said in the last several years knows he has drunk the 3d kool aid despite just about every other respected film editor, director and other technical film artist has explained why 3d sucks and always will with current tech.
"Larry" Fishburne will have to lose like a thousand pounds. Or maybe he wont. Maybe Chong Jr. wont stick his foot in his mouth asking for the moon. Maybe Neo upgrades to an Android phone. Shizzzz! Product placement crystal ball sayz it's an Iphone. *jajaja*
After all, THAT would at least have explained better why Neo was able to sense the damn squidbots and blow them up.
Seems pretty clear to me why Neo could sense & blow up the squidbots: they're part of the machine network, connected to some master system ("the source") that activated when he visited the architect.
Tweet, tweet.
What do you call a 3D Matrix?
hmm? Reality?
His powers just branched out into the "real world" layer of the Matrix, where all who thought they were free were still enslaved. He has to re-learn his skills in this second layer (...)
Second layer? Ha!
Zero. One. Infinity. It's Matrices all the way down.
- Cheering for the Matrix since movie #1!
I lost my sig.
Just pretend 2 & 3 never happened and tell the story again. Only this time, try to find a way that people who, at one point, could speak along with all roles in Matrix 1 by heart, can watch them more than approximately 1.5 times each.
While they travel through the different layers of the matrix, they must perform a syncronized "kick" to get out to the real world!
I reread the 1-3 plot summaries at Wikipedia. It will be interesting to see where things go now that Trinity is dead, Neo has had his ‘real’-world eyes gouged before apparently dying(?) from his final sacrificial encounter with Smith in the matrix. And apparently the 3rd movie ended with the machines and humans at peace and with the Matrix intact (although all humans who want to be free were to be unplugged).
My guess is the next Matrix plot will revolve around the ‘real world’ being yet another Matrix and perhaps Neo and Trinity are still alive in the ‘next layer up’. After a bunch of intense special effects, it’ll end with the philosophical implication that reality is simply an infinite regression of higher states – i.e., every state of being is nested by yet another ‘higher reality’.
In that vein, a cool alternate ending to the movie Inception would have been for Mal (Leonardo DiCaprio’s wife), upon jumping off the building in her attempt to ‘wake up’ from the real world, indeed wakes up in a higher reality. She then continues to keep killing herself and increasingly progressing herself out of nested dream states. After a few hundred deaths, she goes crazy and takes up drinking.
Or maybe that will be the sequel. Inception 2 and Matrix 4-5 will need to have a race to get released first.
We'll see the announcement for the resurrection of Firefly any day now...
Windows assumes you are an idiot...Linux demands proof.
At least my mom and dad are not also my brother and sister.
Say... how do you keep track of all that "who's who?"-stuff?
I sure as fuck would find that confusing.
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
Instead of the same wooden actors and repetitive story, why not explore some other aspect of this Matrix. If it is indeed a matrix, there must be others in it