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Bombay High Court Rules Astrology To Be a Science
neosaurus writes "In India, the Bombay High Court recently ruled astrology to be 'a time tested science more than 4000 years old.' Not only does this stretch the definition of science, it also reaffirms people's faith in pseudosciences at a broader level." At least we can know for certain the people trying to get creationism taught as science in our schools have equally wacky friends around the globe.
That isn't very reassuring.
These one-liner summaries seem to be tickling CmdrTaco's fancy today ...
Sand and rocks are now drinks.
"The Bombay High Court" ruling is about equivalent to the Georgia Supreme Court saying Creationism is a valid science discipline, or the France High Court declaring french to be the only language allowed to be spoken.
Yes it's a surprising decision, but likely to be overturned by India's "supreme court" later on. Saner heads usually prevail at the national/ union/ federal level.
Information wants to be expensive AND wants to be free. So you have Value vs. Cheap distribution fighting each other.
I have met numerous people, some of them quite clever and respected, who despite being well aware of various pseudo-science tricks (say homeopathy and the like) all fell for astrology. They will claim that people born at a certain time of year share some traits... (like it's some kind of scientific measurable proof. sigh)
I have no idea why it appeals to so many, especially women for some reason. Just look at most women's magazines!
Every newspaper has a column (all of them sufficiently vague that you can't use this to prove how ridiculous the whole thing is).
I wonder what it is that makes so many of us susceptible to such blatant scientific fraud.
As for India, I am not surprised... their belief system is already quite complicated and intersects with all aspects of life, science included.
TODO: 753) write sig.
RTA, Bombay High Court didn't "rule" this way. They noted that India's Supreme Court already ruled on whether Astrology is a science back in 2004 and parroted the result of it. Seems consistent to me.
There are more scientists in India than anywhere else in the world !!!
#include std_disclaimer.h
This makes making fun of India so much easier now.
Since when did article postings come with gratuitous flamebait in addition to the link/info?
When it's justified by the article topic's inherent stupidity?
I thought it's called 'Mumbai' now?
from Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombay_High_Court#History_.26_Premises:
"Although the name of the city was changed from Bombay to Mumbai in 1995, the Court as an institution did not follow suit and remained as the Bombay High Court."
Wikipedia doesn't explain why that is so.
'When the Going gets Weird, the Weird turn Pro.' - Hunter S. Thompson
At least we can know for certain the people trying to get creationism taught as science in our schools have equally wacky friends around the globe.
What happened to the /. that was fairly neutral, objective and unbiased? Perhaps it only existed in my mind. Ad hominem such as this is unnecessary, it only cheapens /. as a whole. Creationism is not being pushed anywhere as a science, to be taught, sure, but not as science. Somehow it has become the boogeyman to those that don't actually know what science is. In the marketplace of ideas their will always be struggle, and the victor will not be the one making childish remarks towards the other.
Actually, that's exactly the concern; nobody (well, very few people) object to Creationism being taught in a religions course, forces such as the Texas school board are indeed trying to mandate its inclusion right next to the observed evolution studies present in many science textbooks, and used for materials in science classes.
You're special forces then? That's great! I just love your olympics!
I already predicted this. I scientifically yanked the guts out of my dinner last week, and there it was.
Who would win this election: Andrew Weiner vs Andrew Weiner's weiner.
Because unlike other things on Idle this has real consequences for intelligent and honest people at large. This undermines real science and makes fighting pseudoscience and superstition harder because idiots now have another country to point to and say "See, they think it's real!". It makes it harder to defend vaccines, to debunk homeopathy, and to get rid of the cancer that is religion because garbage masquerading as science now has another sanctuary in a legal code.
That's why it doesn't belong in Idle, because it has real harmful effects.
How can any of these countries possibly be trusted with nuclear weapons? What if the stars happen to align themselves in just the right way? GOODBYE!
While I do agree with you regarding the article commentary, there are indeed people who are trying to get creationism(disguised as Intelligent Design) taught as science in schools. Eg. http://www.discovery.org/
A nicer list of the papers written etc. are here --> http://www.intelligentdesign.org/science.php
This space for rent.
According to TFA,
"So far as prayer related to astrology is concerned, the Supreme Court has already considered the issue and ruled that astrology is science. The court had in 2004 also directed the universities to consider if astrology science can be added to the syllabus. The decision of the apex court is binding on this court," observed the judges.
Apparently India's Supreme Court has already made a ruling about this and the lower court is just following orders.
Actually I would say reasonably intelligent people could be fooled by Confirmation Bias. http://www.skepdic.com/confirmbias.html
Almost everyone is susceptible to Confirmation Bias and intelligent people tend to rationalize even more.
This space for rent.
... so if Astrologers say the time is now to bomb Pakistan out of existence, I guess they should go for it.
I'm taking bets on the next practice or belief system to be labeled and taught as a science. The reading of entrails, tea leaves, palms, or smoke columns? How about tech support by Tarot? (that one does have a certain ring to it, doesn't it?) Any others?
--Udo.
People who dance appear to be crazy by people who can't hear the music.
That's a gross mischaracterization of science's approach to things such as astrology. Science/scientifically-minded people do not take a dogmatic position that astrology is invalid; rather, they say that if astrology *is* valid, it should be possible to come up with evidence that it is. In simple terms, it needs to be statistically distinguishable from the null hypothesis.
When something isn't, the assumption that it is indeed not valid is a fair working hypothesis. Science, mind you, still does not rule out that there might be merit to astrology, but again, there needs to be good evidence for it.
zoroastrians, the folks who actually started astrology, at one time had the largest empire in the world, the achaemenid empire:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Achaemenid_Empire
eventually, as their empire dwindled and islam rose, they fled persia for india, where zoroastrians became a wealthy, influential and rich minority, the parsis:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parsi
if you like the music of queen and freddie mercury: his background is parsi
another thing that always struck me about parsis, the towers of silence:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tower_of_Silence
earth, fire, air, water... no i'm not talking about the last airbender, but in zoroastrianism, so as not to pollute the other elements, the dead can only go to the air, so their bodies must be put on pillars to eaten by vultures
this ruling is more about the power of an influential group in india, as so much in the world is
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
Justified or not, it shows arrogance and a lack of class. Perhaps I'm insane but I do expect better.
Love sees no species.
Science can certainly be regulated by law, but one cannot legislate what is or is not science. This is just sheer ignorance.
Douchebag commentary, douchebag.
Commentary seemed pretty spot-on. Don't know what your problem is.
It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds. - Captain Hammer
It's funny how when us southerner "nutjobs" say something about what we believe, so many of you come back with "They are so intolerant", yet it is ok for YOU to lump all southerners in together as nutjobs.
Hypocricy knows no bounds...
How did he lump *all* southerners in as nutjobs? Do you have reading comprehension issues or what? I'm a southerner too, but I don't find anything offensive about that statement. Also, believing with actual evidence is different than just believing.
It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds. - Captain Hammer
You mean people that believe in the beginning their was nothing then nothing exploded and became everything. Wow there is a fairly tale to tell kids. From the summary "At least we can know for certain the people trying to get creationism taught as science in our schools have equally wacky friends around the globe." WTF does Christianity have to do with this article? Christianity preaches against astrology. neosaurus is a troll trying to take a cheap shot at others beliefs why didn't he make a wisecrack about Islam or another religion? Oh that's right no one wants to make fun of someone who may blow you up so pick on someone who wont blow you up.
...Astrology can be a science. Although not every scientist will accept the findings.
As "cdesign proponentsist" Behe said during the Kitzmiller v. Dover trial, any definition of "scientific theory" that would include Intelligent Design would also include Astrology.
hmm. where shall I start.
how about "grind up the claw of a bengal tiger to give yourself good fortune" to drive animal populations to endangered/extinct.
Or the "today is a great day to (activity)" which may result in taking extra risks, death, etc.
bolds don't make your post lack any less grammar than it already does.
People who dance appear to be crazy by people who can't hear the music.
(FYI, that statement goes both ways)
When did Kosh start commenting on Slashdot? :P
Eh, only racist rebels down there though, right? Not like us dandy Yankees.
No, but you and others responding like this sure are helping to lend credence to the stereotypes about our education levels down here. He is correct that those who want to teach creationism as science tend to be southerners though. Nowhere in there does he say anything about *all* southerners thinking that way. See the difference?
It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds. - Captain Hammer
Exactly, Creationism has a very very very high chance of being wrong, and I usually say that only idiots view creationism as true -- come on, just because you have faith it doesn't mean that you have to believe in nonsense. Faith is one thing, crazy fundamentalist crap is another. Creationism will never be a science, and if I could, without incurring in a fallacy, I'd say "it is just plain stupid and definitely wrong". I am a non-believer, an atheist, but I respect other people's faith, as I know that it is a fallacy to either say that god exists or that god doesn't. This, however, doesn't mean that I have to turn into a baboon and agree with those who believe in creationism. It's just absurd!
With that said, I think that the commentary is, indeed, spot on.
Have you heard about SoylentNews?
It is that very macro Evolution that is responsible for the creation of your ancestors, the Trolls.
- For the complete works of Shakespeare: cat
They are not just in the southern states.
No, but that's certainly where you'll find them in the highest concentrations.
It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds. - Captain Hammer
Expect better? Better for what? Creationism should be challenged! It has a very high chance of being wrong and it is completely unnatural. Faith is one thing, insanity is another.
Have you heard about SoylentNews?
Justified or not, it shows arrogance and a lack of class. Perhaps I'm insane but I do expect better.
What exactly is wrong with noting that there are people elsewhere creating the same kinds of difficulties that we have to deal with here? It's a kind of commiseration. I don't see the problem here.
It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds. - Captain Hammer
A 2010 Harris Poll shows that only 31 percent of Americans believe in astrology. But it's not a science here, yet!
CBS News
Adidas To Bring Back Sneakernet
Pretty good for a "science" that states the sun is in capricorn when it actually is not.
Did they rule if this was valid for old astrology dates or the new aligned reality based astrology with Ophiuchus or both.
One example is that Nancy Reagan believed in astrology, and white house staffers have stated that it influenced policy decisions made by the Reagan administration.
A very respected psychology researcher recently published a paper producing purported statistical evidence for "psi", i.e. phenomena that cannot be explained by known science. The author carried out a long and detailed study on his students: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/06/science/06esp.html and concluded that the effect of 'psi' was 'statistically significant'. The evidence was severely criticized by his peers - in particular is a dismissive rebuttal to the work cited in the same article. Links to the papers lie therein as well. The outlook I have had, reinforced by these studies is that it doesn't hurt to dab a toe on the other side (i.e., in favor of pseudo sciences) every now and then. It helps you think out of the box of known science and understanding. It's like exploring a landscape by following the stars rather than your GPS and compass. You may venture into uncharted territory more easily with the former.
Please read the article.
A PIL (which is a Public Interest Litigation) is something any citizen can file.
An organization filed a litigation in court to ban all advertisements related to astrology, feng shui and Vastu Shastra(Ancient practice of arcitechture which supposedly brings positive energy and makes inhabitants millionares).
Court said it cannot ban them as they have been practiced in India for 4000 years.
A USA analogy?
Lets say you file an application in court saying ban all church advertisements promising happiness salvation etc.,
That said in India even educated people sometimes sacrifice children to make their fate good etc,. etc., and many news channels have regular "informercials" on special "talismans" which can make you invincible from the vagaries of life. So this news isn't really shocking. Its just that even if the high court or the supreme court(highest court of the country) had said nothing, or said the opposite, it would have had no effect.
My Aurora : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o91ZsGwJYyg
FB : https://www.facebook.com/TanveersPhotography
In other countries they have Sociology, Philosophy, Theology instead, which are equally useless nowadays. Useless in the sense that they don't produce useful results.
Well, for one thing, it appears to be destructive to one's ability to create grammatically correct sentences.
My favourite Astrology story comes from a local group of statisticians who set out to disprove it back in the 1980s. After surveying thousands of people and collecting as much information as they could over the course of several years, it didn't matter how they worked the data, it always led them to the same conclusion: the month of your birth has an impact on your outlook on life, thus proving some merit to astrology.
Seemingly disgusted by their findings, they ran it by a group of doctors who conducted a similar study. Without hesitation, one of the doctors said "Well duh, if you were born in a summer month, chances are you spent more time outside with your parents, ate healthier foods, and were exposed to more activities in a day."
The point is, there is science behind just about everything, even if it is pseudoscience. It's the people who try to sell you something that you need to watch out for.
You are right, the creationists lost. However they forked their project and are currently running it as Intelligent Design. Tomatoes, Tomatoes.
I am a v1ral sig. Plse c0py me and h3lp me spread. Thank y0u?
Well, I was fooling around with an Indian chick, but she wanted to consult with an astrologer before things got too serious. I refused to tell her my birthdate and pay an extortion fee to some con man for his blessing of the relationship. Now I'm forever alone, and am very aware of the real harmful effects of India's perverse fascination with astrology.
A slashdotter who didn't build his own computer is like a Jedi who didn't build his own lightsaber.
The judges didn't have any chance to rule otherwise; their horoscope said so....
Scientists didn't "change the name". Global Warming and Climate Change are two different things. One causes the other. Both are happening, and have been talked about consistently in the scientific literature for decades.
The fact that deniers can't figure this out says nothing about science, and everything about deniers.
"You cannot simultaneously prevent and prepare for war." -- Albert Einstein
On the other hand, there's a good chance that people who hear music that isn't really there actually *are* crazy.
... and who is the homo who is being hominem-ed? You are feeling personally insulted because Taco generalised people sharing your belief system? Furthermore, yes, creationism is being peddled as a science. Read about the different subsets of creationism and associated litigation, especially the Lemon test.
At least we can know for certain the people trying to get creationism taught as science in our schools have equally wacky friends around the globe.
What happened to the /. that was fairly neutral, objective and unbiased? Perhaps it only existed in my mind. Ad hominem such as this is unnecessary, it only cheapens /. as a whole. Creationism is not being pushed anywhere as a science, to be taught, sure, but not as science. Somehow it has become the boogeyman to those that don't actually know what science is. In the marketplace of ideas their will always be struggle, and the victor will not be the one making childish remarks towards the other.
Sorry buddy, but I happen to live in Texas, where the board of education is most definitely trying to have creationism taught as science. They don't believe in evolution, and want to teach I.D. as a scientific alternative to evolution. Read for yourself. Pay particular attention to Mercer, McElroy, Lowe, Leo, Dunbar, and Bradley, who are some of the worst offenders. They are completely unqualified to render any sort of judgement on these issues, as their own statements show that they have no understanding of the theory of evolution themselves. On top of that, there are enough morons down here that they keep getting voted back in. Morons get elected, make the curriculum worse, creating more morons who'll get elected. It's a vicious cycle.
It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds. - Captain Hammer
Yes, for instance they can also be found in the northern US.
Virgos are sceptical about such things.
Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.
As a Bible-thumping believer in Christ
let it be taught as a liberal arts/entertainment subject, because that's all that it is anyway (and IMHO, a fool's frivolous and superstitious waste of time and energy)
Oh, the irony...
Science should be useful. Astrology isn't.
'Telepathy' of child used as evidence in abuse case in Scotland: http://www.scotsman.com/news/39Telepathy39-of-child-used-as.6707586.jp?articlepage=1
No, they're rather spread out. Where southerners concentrate you get interesting places like Athens, Savannah, or Austin.
People who can't hear the music appear to be crazy by people who dance.
that foolishness is a universal virtue, and not confined to Americans like the followers of Sarah Palin,
Like the inimitable Groucho Marx, I would never join a club that would have me as a member.
So, what testable predictions has Astrology confirmed? I suspect none, so it's not a science.
People who dance appear to be crazy by people who can't hear the music.
(FYI, that statement goes both ways)
Ah, good use of the Chewbacca defense. That comment makes no sense and has nothing to do with the topic at hand.
The ageless wisdom of George Lucas works better here: "Who is more foolish? The fool, or the fool who follows him?"
Especially since the bathwater magically retains a memory of the baby it once contained.
Seems consistent to me.
Not if you like to be consistent with reality.
A high court in an important-to-technology-business country just ruled that magic is science. That's pretty newsworthy.
God invented whiskey so the Irish would not rule the world.
It was a truly sad day (in 2004) when India's court ruled that astrology was a science, but it wasn't the first. The article states that the Bombay High Court merely reaffirmed this ruling. So it's *another* sad day for India. They just don't know the difference between an philosophy and a science.
And up is down!
Only after exchange of a W boson.
I'm insane
You said it, buddy.
God invented whiskey so the Irish would not rule the world.
i am apparently falling into a western misperception going all the way back to the ancient greeks:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoroaster#Western_perceptions
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
I think he expects that the poster doesn't salt the opinion pool before anyone even comments. I agree creationism should be challenged (I'm definitely not a fan), but please stick to facts in the summary.
Indians are:
Practical and prudent
Ambitious and disciplined
Patient and careful
Humorous and reserved
Pessimistic and fatalistic
Miserly and grudging
African Americans are:
Adventurous and energetic
Pioneering and courageous
Enthusiastic and confident
Dynamic and quick-witted
Selfish and quick-tempered
Impulsive and impatient
Foolhardy and daredevil
Jews are:
Patient and reliable
Warmhearted and loving
Persistent and determined
Placid and security loving
Jealous and possessive
Resentful and inflexible
Self-indulgent and greedy
All of these description are pulled from this site. Of course, I replaced signs of the zodiac with races, religions, or ethnicities. My point is that astrology will not destroy the world, but it is a nonsensical way of categorizing and stereotyping people.
I also agree with GP, who seemed to be arguing that if we let India redefine science to include unproven horoscopes, then we have no right to argue when people want to redefine it to include things like "faith healing", "homeopathy", and other forms of bunk. The scientific method goes from "required" to "just another opinion/ivory tower bullshit".
Merely a semantic detail. Until the 1800s the word "science" meant "system of knowledge" and applied to philosophy, region, best practices, etc. In the 19th century science acquired its modern mean of reproduceable observations.
A high court in an important-to-technology-business country just ruled that magic is science. That's pretty newsworthy.
Well, it's not magic until one of the cockamamy predictions is correct. Until then it's just like predicting the weather, but with even less accuracy.
...you are a mad scientist sick of the stupidity of humans and weren't sure which countries to include in your plot for global destruction. Rest assured India made it as easy as the US does.
"All great wisdom is contained in .signature files"
That's the kind of thing losers say.
Dot or Feather?
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
All that proves is that idiots can get degrees too. Even PhDs. Also, homeopathy is definitely the bathwater, not the baby. Luckily, the baby pissed in the bathwater, and the diluted baby piss can be had on these sugar pills for only $100 - guaranteed to cure!
Every science is based on certain axioms so is this. We must not say that it is fake. Rather, we should say that "we dont know". Someone please read Vaastu Shastra and comment below here.
You're confused. Empirical science is inductive and is concerned with material truths. What you are describing is a deductive science like logic or mathematics. Neither of which produce material truths. The key difference is falsifiability.
Not from my observations travelling about the nation.
Idiots are everywhere, they are just more loud, obnoxious and rude up north.
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
I think there's confusion on both sides about what it means for something to be true.
Astrologists apparently think that they're dealing with fundamental principles, a kind of natural law. A skeptic looks at their theory, sees that it is contrived or constructed, lacking the deep logic of a real natural law, and rejects it as utter bullshit. But I think the reality is something different from either of those views.
The current scientific model of nature is underdetermined, with a lot left out that is "random". Is all of that truely random, or is there some kind of sloppy structure to the randomness? Are there ghosts of patterns in it that are more than just figments of the imagination? It would not take something very strong or obvious to cause such patterns. If something is "random" relative to the causes and effects that we understand, then there's no energy potential to be overcome, nothing that has to be overpowered in order to twist the randomness into something less than random. It can be influenced by something that is infinitesimally close to unreal. A scientific skeptic will dismiss any such patterns as unreal however, if they can't be probed and controlled in a ridged and universally repeatable manner.
I'll give an example....years ago I looked into astrology, and did statistics on the birthdays of friends and female acquaintances who had clicked well enough with me to share their birthdays. There were perhaps 15 individuals. The 3 who were my closest friends were born multiples of 28 days from me, which is the Japanese emotional biorythmic cycle. And emotional affinity was the basis of our relationship. The of the people were tightly clustered around that side of the cycle, within a day or two out of sync. There was only one exception, a person who was exactly on the opposite side of the cycle, and who had previously stood out to me as being an emotional blank, someone who I could not feel. In terms of statistical significance, the data said that there was a real pattern, with something on the order of a million to one odds (I've forgotten exactly). And yet, a 28 day cycle makes no sense. What possible basis could it have? Its a multiple of 7, the the four of us who were exactly in-sync born on Fridays, and there could be a pattern with that. Perhaps, for example, we're born on Fridays because that's the day the doctor chooses to induce labor, because he wants to golf on Saturday, and perhaps there's some kind of emotional affinity that results from having been born traumatically in that manner. But that seems far fetched, and it doesn't work anyway, since it doesn't explain why I had no friends on the other 3 Fridays of the cycle.
Given the above information, or even a lot less, an astrologer would likely believe in the 28 day cycle. I still think its contrived - I don't believe that there is a fundamental natural process that comes around every 28 days. But it is nevertheless somehow real, even if only as the shadow of a superstition. To a skeptic, everything I just said will be dismissed as delusional, or as a statistical fluke. In their worldview, a superstition can not somehow cause or be caused by actual patterns in the real world that affect people who do not share the superstition. And I would agree with them if I had just this one example. But I have many, many other examples also, unexpected observations that I inquired into further rather than just blowing off because they didn't fit my view of how the world should work.
So I don't believe in astrology, in the sense that I don't endorse or support that thought of how the world works. Its like a god that I don't consider worth worshiping. Yet neither do I don't dismiss the god as an utter hallucination, and I think the people who do so are ignorant. Looking strictly at the meaning of the words, I think its fair to call astrology a superstition, and a pseudo-science. It stands above, and its only partially scientific, meaning that its half bullshit. But its not all bullshit, even though our modern science does not have an explanation for how that could be so.
I actually like some of the editorializing. And I'm not even sure it counts as editorializing when it's a topic like this. Sure, if this article were about how much we should pay in taxes (if anything), or what popular computer platform or text editor is best, then I'd solidly agree that it's an open question and the poster should consider staying out of the fray in his summary. But if it's something like this, where the underlying matter is well established science, why not make a snarky comment? If the bozos in this story suggested the world might actually be flat, should Rob back off and say, "And who am I to suggest they may be wrong?" I don't think he should.
Do you have empirical evidence that people who disagree with you are of unsound mind? How did you acquire that information, is it in peer reviewed journals? Or is it just your own biased opinion masquerading as rationality.
Sure creationism should be challenged. However, if we attack it with stupidity, we'll just confirm the opinion that scientists are untrustworthy liars.
"The conduct of neither [party], if strictly examined, will be irreproachable." -Elizabeth Bennet
Here in Chile, a couple of years ago a judge declared that a convict was cured from AIDS during his time served
(actually he was wrongly diagnosed with AIDS and had to serve his time in a separate jail, around other prisoners carrying HIV, when they let him go, he was "cured")
one can expect everything from lawyers/justice.
But... but.... think about the children!!!
-Space for rent
I have an Indian background and have long given up trying to argue against astrology with Indian friends and family who are into it. This got me thinking about culture wars and whether or not the modernity versus tradition battle manifests itself as a different culture war in each culture. I wonder if a list could be worked out for different cultures. Came up with three examples so far.
US: science versus ID/creationism
Turkey: secular people versus Islamists locked in a battle for power
India: science versus astrology/homeopathy/
The rest?
Western Europe seems to be an exception.
Anand Rangarajan anand@cise.ufl.edu
Two problems:
1. God exists outside the universe, and is therefore free from restraints that we only know to apply in our universe. If those constraints do not exist for a god, then they do not exist for any other explanation. Therefore, a god explains nothing.
But the notion that God exists and made everything is really the best explanation I've ever seen
2. Doesn't matter. You have no evidence, so it is no "better" than any other explanation anyone could possibly make up.
Why do I never have mod points when I need them. Certainly one of the funniest things I have read in a long time.
Not from my observations travelling about the nation.
Idiots are everywhere, they are just more loud, obnoxious and rude up north.
We're talking about a specific group of idiots here though, and that group is more concentrated in the south.
It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds. - Captain Hammer
Science is the discipline of publicly testing ideas by systematic observation and controlled experiment.
The sciences are the results of the persistent application of the discipline of science to specific subject matter.
When people say, "Science doesn't explain everything" they are declaring their basic ignorance of what science is. Science doesn't explain anything. The sciences do explain a few things, but none of the sciences is intended by anyone sane to be a comprehensive explanation of all things.
Astrology will never be a science, any more than medicine will ever be a science. Doctors are not scientists, but technologists. They use the results of science to treat disease. Astrologers would be the same, if there were any systematic tests or controlled experiments that demonstrated a causal influence of the heavens on human life. Such systematic tests and controlled experiments would be science.
If one wanted to approach astrology as a scientist, one would use a standard personality inventory from the science of psychology and give it to a large number of people. One would also record the date of birth of those people. One would then test the idea "there is an association between date of birth and personality" by first doing unsupervised learning to cluster the personality results, and then looking for non-random features in the birth-dates in each cluster. Or one could simply apply a distance metric between personalities and compare that distribution to birth-date (or birth-day-of-year, or whatever) using a Kruskal-Wallis test or similar.
Any time anything remotely like this has been done, no significant degree of association has been found. Yet for astrological practice to be useful, the degree of association must be very high--this is also quantifiable.
It is relatively trivial to prove a negative via controlled experiment and systematic observation. Physicists do this all the time, particularly with regard to various phenomen "beyond the standard model". In practical terms, the public testing of astrological ideas by controlled experiment and systematic observation has been done, and the ideas have failed.
That is how astrology differs from science.
Blasphemy is a human right. Blasphemophobia kills.
Gold chains, greasy chest hair and bad pickup lines. And magic healing crystals. Oh and Disco. Sounds pretty terrifying, actually.
Someone had to do it.
No, they're rather spread out. Where southerners concentrate you get interesting places like Athens, Savannah, or Austin.
Actually every major southern city is an example of where southerners concentrate. The particular nutjobs in question here are certainly more prominent in the south. Austin is something of an anomaly in Texas, which is probably why I like it so much.
It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds. - Captain Hammer
No worry, it'll all be meaningless come 2012
I just find it funny that people bash Astrology without even having the slightest idea what Astrology is and how to practice it. If you practiced Astrology you would see without any doubt that there is some truth to it, but I guess laziness makes people agree with an "Authority" in regards to what is true and what is not. I'm an IT professional for more than 8 years, always have been a geek and a science lover. As someone with a scientific mindset I had decided to put to Astrology to the test. I was skeptic of it when I began studying it, and was skeptic for a good while even though I was seeing evidence of it working. By now I have removed my doubt that Astrology is a pseudo-science and recognize it as an actual science that is surprisingly not recognized by the scientific community but it is by many people who are putting a lot of time and effort into more Astrological research.
My point is this, if you have any doubts of whether it works or not, then study it and practice it, and if people still want to live in ignorance then they can do whatever they want. All I know is that I practice it and it works for me, I use it as a tool for improving my life and those around me. If you think that Sun Sign Astrology is real Astrology (the kind you see in the newspapers and magazines) then you are WAY off from knowing what Astrology is.
Totally off-topic, but as an undergrad I had a date with a girl that was half dot and half feather. I never got a second date, but to this day it still amuses me.
"Never let your sense of morals prevent you from doing what is right" - Salvor Hardin
Your "best"!? Losers always whine about their best. Winners go home and fuck the prom queen.
c. Whole Chicken
Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
er... and following up on this notion of yours, the universe is also outside of time. Time is something which is within it. Consequently, there is no need for a chap to be fiddling around with the dials. In any case, you are taking the proverbial ridiculous leap of faith in postulating this dude's existence. or wait, maybe this being is not a dude, but is actually one of many constipated yellow Hyenas (duly capitalised) with eyes made out of blue glitter, peppered with numerous black orifices which are each conduits into various multiverses and what we call matter is actually God-faeces. It brings a new meaning to the term "Big Bang" I guess I just ran this conversation right into the toilet there.
Yes, for instance they can also be found in the northern US.
True, but unfortunately we have a lot more of them down south. I'd love to send them all to smaller states up north where they can do less damage.
It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds. - Captain Hammer
Do you have empirical evidence that people who disagree with you are of unsound mind? How did you acquire that information, is it in peer reviewed journals? Or is it just your own biased opinion masquerading as rationality.
Sure creationism should be challenged. However, if we attack it with stupidity, we'll just confirm the opinion that scientists are untrustworthy liars.
The fact that they consider something that has absolutely no scientific basis to be science shows quite plainly that there is something very wrong with their thinking. Seems like sufficient basis for his comment.
It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds. - Captain Hammer
This is what the majority wants. I keep hearing about how in the business of politics, whenever the majority gets what they want, "society" wins, including the people who lost. Is this not true anymore? After all, if "society" decides that government should spend tax money on (for example) intelligent design, then everything is working as planned, right?
It depends. People want "intelligent design", but they also want a good education system. Which would they prefer? Do they even know that the two are in conflict? Call me an elitist, but I do not believe everybody should vote. I believe that a democracy only works when everybody has the option to vote, and everybody who does is well-versed on the issues. In the US, we tend to have problems with that second part.
Exactly, that's my proof.
Have you heard about SoylentNews?
Car Analogy ...
the guy is saying: All cars are the same, they all get you from point A to point B There is no difference between an Escort and a BMW.
Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
I gave up when we declared catsup to be a vegetable. Now we have commercials proudly saying that manwhiches (tm) contain two servings of veggies.
It's a vegetable in the same way a can of crushed tomatoes is a vegetable. They are just crushed more and have a bit of sugar and other things added for flavor.
Tomatoes, crushed or not, are not vegetables. Botanically tomatoes are fruits.
Falcon
Should there be a Law?
Not exactly. You're talking about "soft creationism", basically trying to use religion to answer the question "what happened before the Big Bang"?
"Creationism", in the context of American Christianity, is much more specific than this. It's the belief that evolution is not true, and that God created all animals (and humans) as they are now. It also usually includes the belief that the Earth is about 6500 years old based on a literal interpretation of the Bible.
If you ask a sample of random Americans what "Creationism" means to them, you''ll find that most of them think it means the above, and of those who identify themselves as "Creationists", they will agree with the above.
You're right, it is possible to accept evolution, the big bang, etc., and still believe in a divine creation before these events, essentially "god in the gaps", since science can't answer the question of what came before the Universe came into existence. However, when you use the term "Creationism", that generally implies a very specific set of fundamentalist Christian-based beliefs which do in fact contradict evolution and a lot of science.
Perhaps you missed my point about how if God were outside of time,the notion of God having a beginning or end is meaningless -- and it therefore becomes safe to say that God always was. You can't say the same about the universe because time is part of it. Simply put, God only needs a requires a creator if God is also bound by time just as the universe is. If one is to assume that God created the universe at all, then God clearly existed before the universe, and existing before the universe would mean that there is no reason to assume that the restrictions imposed by the universe, in particular, the effects of time, would have to apply. To assume otherwise would be to assume that time itself also exists outside of the universe, but that contradicts current accepted scientific theory which is that time began with the Big Bang.
Oh, and I capitalize God because that would be the beings name, least insomuch as we are capable of identifying any name for it.
Time as we know it began with the big bang. We know nothing of what conditions existed before. Positing a creator god requires more assumptions than simply positing that the conditions for the creation of the universe existed, and thus it exists. Why go to such lengths to insert some sort of anthropomorphic god into the picture?
It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds. - Captain Hammer
I would argue that we should only consider it good dancing if it still looks good without music.
Without music dancing becomes mime. Whether or not you think a mime is crazy depends on what you know about why they are miming. If they are miming because they really think they are trapped in a box then they really are crazy. If they are miming to entertain then they are good entertainers.
Astrologers are either good entertainers or misguided idiots. Whether you can hear their music or not, they are not scientists.
Cow Cube
MOD parent funny - hilariously creative
We have a name for people who can hear music nobody else can. It's called "schizophrenia".
The thing is, I bet that if you really study this, the vast majority of people who claim to believe in astrology do not act in a manner that differs in an appreciable sense from people who make no such belief claims.
In other words, I bet you that everyone's dancing to the same tune - it's just that some people claim that they can hear the music of the stars, and it just so happens that they end up dancing the same way as the people who listen to reality. After all, evolution is not forgiving of genes that ignore reality to their detriment.
Irony? thump thump thump
Can I light a sig ?
The of the people
The other people
I like Chinese food!
The waiters never are rude.
They only come up to your knees -
But they're warm ad they're willing and they're ready to please!
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
The astrologists just didn't account for that missing zodiac sign (Ophiuchus) for oh, a few hundred centuries. Now that they've got things all sorted out again with the alignment of the stars with the right zodiac sign, and the lunar eclipses with the precession of the equinoxes when the age of Aquarius starts, it should all make sense real soon. I'm sure that in no time we'll see some legitimate scientific explanations for astrology and personal behavior, like uh... the earth's position to the nearest supernova when you were born and the relative amount of positronic gravitrinos from dark matter emanating from Pisces during the last meteor shower means that tomorrow a Sagittarius will be kind and prosperous, but should be cautious of a close friend and their motives. But only if they live north of the tropic of cancer, since the gravitational pull of the moon for those in the southern hemisphere won't be enough to counter balance the red energy shift from Mars.
Global warming and other natural disasters are a direct effect of the shrinking number of pirates - Gospel of the FSM
What's seen in such experiment is the FORER EFFECT.... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forer_effect
Har har, so now I can finally fulfill my childhood dream of becoming a scientist. I'm off to buy a couple of parrots.
I don't believe in astrology. But apparently Sagittariusesaiisini (or what fucking ever the plural is) never do, so it must be right.
But my handwriting looks like an epileptic spider ran through a blob of tar backwards, but that's different. Graphology really is a science. It says I'm as disorganized as a train wreck full of blind imbeciles, and I am.
Shit, the oven's on fire. BRB.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
Figured this posting deserved a little Sagan... from Cosmos episode 3: The Harmony of the Worlds
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iunr4B4wfDA
Ahahahaha!! That one never gets old!
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Astrology does have a few testable hypotheses (i.e., that an individual's personality traits are correlated to the season they were born in, and that an individual's behaviour in any given season is related to the season in which they were born). However, it's clearly not a science in that it doesn't really test those hypotheses in controlled experiment to establish the predictive power of the theory of astrology. If astrology was rigorously scientific in its approach, then there would be research in areas like southern hemisphere vs. northern hemisphere star signs, not to mention psychological research into refining what effect birth season has on personality traits.
Just about every astrologist is completely out to lunch, as well. Even the most striking imaginable correlation between birth season and personality would not permit quotidian predictions of how your day is going to go.
This is a science article and according to science the universe is more than 14 billion years old while earth is 4.54 billion years old. But Christians exclaim earth is only 4000 years old.
Christianity preaches against astrology.
Christianity may preach against astrology today but that hasn't always been true. Wiki has the article Christianity and astrology about it. At various periods in history Christian churches did believe in and support astrology.
Falcon
Should there be a Law?
The predictions come true all the time. My horoscope predicted I would meet someone new today and I'll be damned if it didn't happen. The cashier at Kroger said "Hi, welcome to Kroger. My name is Brenda. Do you have your Kroger card?". It also said I would come into some money and sure enough, I got my paycheck.
It's an amazing feeling to be part of something so scientific.
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Kansas is Midwestern. I can't think of any other states off-hand that have pushed creationism into the science classroom. Of course, I don't really pay much attention to it since it hasn't happened in my state yet (NC, a southern state).
...sometimes, in order to hurt someone very badly, you have to tell that person terrible lies. - PA
How did he lump *all* southerners in as nutjobs? Do you have reading comprehension issues or what?
"It's nice to know their are nutjobs in other places besides just the southern US", then why the 'just'. Technically it may not mean all people from the southeast usa but it is saying that they would all fit here. Well, I disagree.
No, it doesn't imply that they would all fit here either. At best it implies that the southern US is the place that the poster is familiar with, and he feels a sort of comfort from knowing that it's not the only place with nutjobs like that.
It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds. - Captain Hammer
Kansas is Midwestern. I can't think of any other states off-hand that have pushed creationism into the science classroom. Of course, I don't really pay much attention to it since it hasn't happened in my state yet (NC, a southern state).
You should pay attention. If the Texas board of education gets it's way, evolution will be taught as being a very flawed theory, and intelligent design will be presented as a scientific alternative. Since Texas is a major influence on the books that most of the rest of the country uses, that should scare you.
It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds. - Captain Hammer
Can you please explain what this means?
Stick Men
Since when did article postings come with gratuitous flamebait in addition to the link/info? Oh wait, this is slashdot..
Since day one. Where have you been?
Also, one man's "flamebait" is another man's witty repartee. There are plenty of other news aggregator sites out there, and as you so keenly pointed out, this is Slashdot. If you don't like it, feel free to find another that you do like. Personally, I think that's a hell of a lot more practical suggestion than to try to change the nature of what Slashdot is and has been for years with what I consider a pretty gratuitous flamebaitional comment itself.
Not really. You are overestimating the intelligence of the general population. Anyone who fervently believes in "astrology" and who would put forward an argument justifying their position that consists of "because some judges said so" or "because so many people believe in it" automatically excludes them from the pool of "intelligent" people anyway. Let the sheep bleat. We have work to do.
Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
Because there aren't another half a billion Indian chicks...
Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
I am laughing hard enough to hurt myself. I have a memory of the baby in the bathwater, too.....maybe that'll heal me. Heh...
"Truth is what works" -- William James "It works!!" -- o-dark-AM comment
Feather Indians are Native Americans
Dot Indians are from India.
People who use either phrase tend to not date either type for very long.
Point taken. But, they were able to predict positions of stars, times of solar and lunar eclipse with stunning accuracy. Much much before the first telescope. Clearly, they aren't a set of duds like say a tarot card reader ! A lot of ignorant fools on /. seem to comparing an astrologist to the dude who sits by a parrot.
And astrology and horoscopy are not the same thing!
Check this out http://www.icas.org.in/
I don't agree. The masses and public opinion have never made up the core of science, have always hindered science, but have always benefited from science. We don't do science to convince people, we do science because we like knowing how the world REALLY works. Likewise, science is not just a method, it's a way of thinking. I will never take what you say at face value, no matter how many letters you have after your name, or how neat your lab coat looks, or how good you are at debate. Ever. However show me an experiment that can be reproduced that demonstrates your explanation, and then we're in business.
This is what even scientists are forgetting all the time. Linus Pauling was convinced that Vitamin C helped prevent colds. Now we live in a world where everyone associates Vitamin C, a co-enzyme that participates in collagen synthesis, with cold "cures". Amazingly enough, the common cold still afflicts people at exactly the same rate, despite an abundance of Vitamin C products. Why? Because Linus Pauling, Nobel Prize winner and discoverer of many useful biological molecules, said so.
Let the sheep continue to be stupid - it was never our job to educate them unless they want it for themselves. They won't stop us - they can't. They have no understanding of what we do.
Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
Christians and Catholics are not the same religion. Christians believe astrology is an abomination Catholics invented a religion that incorporated all of their pagan beliefs under the guise of Christianity because Christianity was becoming a popular religion and Emperor Constantine was try to stay ahead of the game. And the Romans never stopped persecuting the Christians they just became the Catholics and carried on their extermination of Christians till the end of the Dark ages. Also where do you get this 4000 years?
A high court in an important-to-technology-business country just ruled that magic is science. That's pretty newsworthy.
Well, it's not magic until one of the cockamamy predictions is correct. Until then it's just like predicting the weather, but with even less accuracy.
Wrong - it's 'magic' when someone treats it like it has substance, not when the dice finally roll a seven.
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.
Why on earth astrology could cause "real harmful effects"?
Your horoscope says today/this week/this year should be great for your health. Considering this, you decide to disregard your doctor's recommendations. You die.
- Indian doctors to focus on the fluid balance theory
- Indian engineers to learn more about the wonderful properties of phlogiston
- Indian economists to study the highly profitable theories of Charles Ponzi
That would be nice.
I was fooling around with an Indian chick, but she wanted to consult with an astrologer before things got too serious
You should have agreed to it, but get it in writing and hold him responsible if things didn't work out. After all, if the Supreme Court says he's a scientist, then he should have liability, right?
In the worst case, if you didn't get laid he should pay you a hooker. And, no, his momma shouldn't be part of the settlement...
You have zero understanding of evolution (which has been observed in nature multiple times) and there is no relationship between that and Newton's "laws" (which are also THEORIES. There are no LAWS of nature.)
What "stronger science" is Creationism based on? The Principle of A Bunch of Desert Nomads Sitting Around A Campfire Cannot Be Wrong?
Based on that summary, perhaps we can lobby to have the recent pseudoscience of humankind-caused global warming taught around the globe, also. Oh, wait...
Evolution is awesome and Darwin is god.
There that should get me some awesome karma.
Treat them like individuals. Do not let them enforce their form of Sharia.
Please do not post here ever again, we are on Slashdot we base facts behind IMPORTANT topics, well most of us. I will just reverse what you say and you will see there is no facts in what your are saying.
"Creationism is more scientifically justifiable than Evolution"
Evolution is more scientifically justifiable than Creationism.
You are saying nothing, how come it is more justifiable, and I won't tell you facts that make Evolution more justifiable like Lucy and the likes.
"Mathematics alone require more "faith" to believe in Evolution than Creationism" :)
What part of the Mathematics you don't understand ? In what base are you using Mathematics, base 10, base 2...
"In fact, in addition to the Scientific support for creationism"
What facts ? please enlighten me, us. Do you know anything about science ? What scientific support ? Money is not scientific
Repeatable experiments, observable phenomenon ? Calculating the time of reaction of experiments with only the mass of the products, temperature etc ? Are theses sciences for you ?
"Once you apply the mathematics on the age data of the Universe"
Yes, once you apply... What are the numbers ? When is the time initial time zero. Now ?
"very interesting correlation to the 6 days of creation"
Again you're base of calculus please ?
I don't mind people not believing in evolution. But the sheer fact to base decision on stars and planets makes my head spin.
Or to not believe that the mammals have been on earth and constantly adapting themselves is quite funny.
We are mammals by the way.
Please unlearn everything and understand at least the Analogy of the Cave or Plato's Cave.
It's funny how I make sense to others and not myself...
Even dumb people pay taxes, and those taxes which could be going towards worth while scientific endeavors in the form of grants can now go towards astrologists after a quick buck.
There's no way of scientifically evaluating the chance of it being right or wrong. It is unscientific and should not be taught as science but calling it wrong requires as much faith and assumptions as calling it right.
Really? You think that the visual of Mozart's 5th can be appreciated with just lights or graphs? The play of the various instruments in sequences against and with each other?
On the other hand, it might show how stupid most Rap music is.
Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
It's funny how when us southerner "nutjobs"
I'm from australia and as the representitive of the southern hemisphere i find this offensive. lumping us together with those nutjobs from southern USA.
creationism in the south. natural healing in the north, both the same kind of idiot really.
Christians and Catholics are not the same religion. Christians believe astrology is an abomination Catholics invented a religion
You obviously didn't read the wiki article on Christianity and astrology. It was the Catholic church who persecuted those who believed in astrology, not the other way around. Not your version, are you letting your hatred of Catholics show? That would explain your not reading, or totally ignoring, the wiki article.
Catholics invented a religion that incorporated all of their pagan beliefs under the guise of Christianity because Christianity was becoming a popular religion and Emperor Constantine was try to stay ahead of the game.
You don 't know much about history either, or you're making things up. Constantine only changed his beliefs after he had a dream in which a Christian figure told him his troops would be victorious in a battle with the Eastern Orthodox Church. When they won he became a believer. Now whether it was a real change of heart or was politically motivated I don't know. And neither do you.
Also where do you get this 4000 years?
Do you really not know there are Young earthers? Okay some believe it's 6000 years old. We've even had threads here on slashdot about Christian museums saying dinosaurs and humans lived together. And those are not Catholics. At least before he died Pope John Paul II said "God" created the universe with the Big Bang and that life evolved. Those Creationist Young Earthers you don't know about, unless you're lying, criticized the Pope over that. Like you they showed their hatred.
Falcon
Should there be a Law?
or they must being paid by astrology union. Actually Bombay should be spelled Mumbai.
Scary that that the high court of Mumbai thinks astrology is a science because it shows that the high court's members lack of understanding facts and reality. I would not trust any decision made by this court since do not take facts and reality as evidence.
However, I could see all of the fraudsters, embezzlers, and other criminals will come to Mumbai to incorporate and use its weak legal justice system to do their crimes. Now I wouldn't do business with any company that would have my financial information since they have such a weak legal system. I hope that a higher court would overturn this nonsense decision.
Actually, I'm not a scientist, but I see your point. I agree that the methodology will continue to be unaffected, and that true scientists* care more about the truth than politics, but, where will those true scientists come from if schools aren't teaching it correctly?
* True Scientist - I don't think this is a "no true scottsman" fallacy, because I am not redefining the word.
India has retards in power. They obviously didn't consult an actual scientist on this.
BeauHD. Worst editor since kdawson.
Scary that that the high court of Mumbai thinks astrology is a science because it shows that the high court's members lack of understanding facts and reality
The same could be said for anyone who believes in God.
BeauHD. Worst editor since kdawson.
Can we just save everyone the trouble and auto-tag everything "idiocracy" until the end of the world in a few months?
Yes, for instance they can also be found in the northern US.
Pennsylvania is a bit of an anomaly. It's like a little piece of Alabama in the North.
Similar to the upcoming US election results
Astrology by itself isn't harmful. It's a tool that controls people; like religion. And like religion, it's not a transparent system. It will lead to real harmful effects.
Humans are humans after all. If a transparent system of control can be corrupted, what more of a system without transparency?
Here's a quote from Jonathan Hickman's Pax Romana on religion as a method of control:
"Religion hides evil behind a veil of righteousness. It attacks legitimate questions by simply calling them immoral. [...] It's worse than that. Religion feeds off of than within us which cries out to understand our place in the universe, but crushes spirituality under false rules and demands acceptable behavior."
Please stay on the line and we will tell you your problems.
As long as it is internalised ie the science of astrology and does not claim precedence over other sciences, even theological sciences, does it really matter. The US is really struggling with theological science crossing over into biological science amongst others.
Each culture will inevitably define the scope of it's language, however, biology is biology, physics is physics, chemistry is chemistry and of course religion is religion. Tacking science on the end of them does not alter their scope, although the first bunch work together and the last one is all one it's own.
Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
The study of patterns of coincidence between astronomical bodies and other schemas.
Relying on wikipedia for info is a bad idea I one time for shits and giggles went to a wiki page that was about a certain ubuntu derivative and changed thing like ubuntu became poobuntu, free and open source software became free and open source cheese, unixlike became poonixlike. My point is it took 6 months before it was corrected with a comment "removed hilarious vandalism".
The 4000 year is bullshit anyone who actually reads their bible it has many genealogical records start adding dates it is closer to 6000.
As for the Catholic church they were the ones who persecuted everyone who wasn't a part of their organisation and/or didn't pay the priest enough.
Another thing is the term Christian. If someone from the church is asking for money it is a business not a church that is how you tell the difference (take the Vatican as example). Christian means you are a follower of Christ but too many scam artists use Christianity to make money (like a scientist has never falsified research or lied or ripped someone off for money) my point is perhaps I should stop getting offended when people ridicule Christians because the term really doesn't mean anything other than Nigerian scam artist in a robe. The people who call themselves Christians should be ridiculed, they are for the most part a bunch of losers they don't even worship who they say they do "Yahweh of the Torah or his son Yahshua". Where did this Jesus Christ thing come from? I wouldn't want someone mispronouncing my name. I will stop referring to myself as a Christian as I do not agree with most of them on religious matters.
I do.
Instead of living up to your name, why don't you do a bit of basic reading before posting comments here? The amount of crap in your comment is astounding.
This, however, doesn't mean that I have to turn into a baboon and agree with those who believe in creationism. .
Huh? Isn't it the evolutionists who believe we're just baboons?
"City hall" in German is "Rathaus" Kinda explains a few things......
Not all Creationists believe Creationism is science. Only a vocal minority.
Don't lump them all together by the actions of these few, otherwise you become no better than the religious bigots.
"City hall" in German is "Rathaus" Kinda explains a few things......
At least we can know for certain the people trying to get creationism taught as science in our schools have equally wacky friends around the globe.
Rob, you're trolling. I've seen the accusations made time and time again that there are people in America who want creationism taught in public schools as science, but I have never seen any of the alleged advocates. I think this is a boogeyman. I don't believe that such people exist and I ask you to document it.
LK
"Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
Not all Creationists believe Creationism is science. Only a vocal minority.
Don't lump them all together by the actions of these few, otherwise you become no better than the religious bigots.
I don't lump them all together. I believe they all believe in something that there's no evidence for, but those that try to get it inserted into school curriculum are certainly more dangerous than those that don't.
It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds. - Captain Hammer
All well and good, as long as the sheep haven't elected politicians who've passed laws to stop you.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
Technically schmecnically. Saying all the nutters are in the south isn't even close to saying all people in the south are nutters.
Get out your crayons and draw a Venn diagram.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
I've never met a schizophrenia. Is it a person who suffers from schizophrenics?
Well there's your problem, you spent 4 years learning how to save money. You should have done econom*ics*. Room 12A, just along the corridor.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
Or bombay rolls.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
In a recent BBC programme Dara O'Briain proclaimed that astrology was rubbish and Brian Cox followed up with "in the interests of balance on the BBC, yes astrology is nonsense." This got the Astrological Association of Great Britain so riled that they have put forward a petition for "fair representation" in the media. A couple of good blogs have been done on the subject in the Guardian - here and here
My ex fiance literally left me because a "psychic" told her I was not "the one". I spent the next year an alcoholic mess.
Seriously, fuck those homewrecking assholes.
(Ok, granted she probably would have left me anyway, being that I was a complete screw up at that part of my life, it would have been nice to have spent the next year after the analysing my failure honestly instead of just angrily stewing over a fucking ridiculous mind poisoner.)
Excuse the Unicode crap in my posts. That's an apostrophe, and slashdot is busted.
But Astrology IS science; it's a very reliable IQ test.
Slashdot social media options: AIM, ICQ, Yahoo, Jabber and Mobile Text. Why no MySpace?
Astrology != Statistics.
Atleast not in the form of objective, unfiltered statistics.
Slashdot social media options: AIM, ICQ, Yahoo, Jabber and Mobile Text. Why no MySpace?
All of these description are pulled from this site. Of course, I replaced signs of the zodiac with races, religions, or ethnicities. My point is that astrology will not destroy the world, but it is a nonsensical way of categorizing and stereotyping people.
I don't believe in the BS myself, but I just wanted to point out that Indian horoscopes are more nuanced than that - they don't arbitrarily divide the human race into twelve groups, instead holy men extort money from you by making shit up supposedly based on the exact date, time and location of your birth. It's a very 'personalised' reading, more akin to things like cold reading than western astrology. Disclaimer: I'm of Indian ethnic origin myself (born and brought up in the UK though).
If I have nothing to hide, you have no reason to search me
Astrology is a religion. Like all religions, it eugenically bred its adherents according to the verisimilitude they expressed toward their astrologically predicted character. So after all these years of breeding the descendants tend to treat others according to how true they are to their predicted character. So the courts are recognizing this cultural behavior.
So is cooking. And yet we don't call it science.
Ni.
The Person can go to the Supreme Court to challenge the judgement of the Bombay High Court
This is offialdom at maybe its worst; maybe this public official (Kevin Lacy: jklacy@dot.state.nc.us) maybe has too much time on his hands. Perhaps he needs to have a little less time, or to take lots more time to think.
Looking at space, radio, science and computing from a 'down-under' amateur enthusiast perspective.
At least we can know for certain the people trying to get creationism taught as science in our schools have equally wacky friends around the globe.
This is of a very cute soundbite, but let us not go entirely overboard here. But first of all, just to get it out of the way: I don't believe in astrology or any other religious stuff.
However, the fundamental difference between creationism and things like astrology, tarot and other similar superstitions, is that where creationism exists in plain and obvious contradiction to facts that are well-known to the believers, many other superstitions are based on "experience", all be it muddled and misinterpreted experience.
Take tarot: you spread a number of cards with symbols in a basically random sequence, interpret them and experience the feeling of insight in your situation and your future - and the prediction often turns out to be true. To the believer this is a proof that you have gained occult insight into the future, to the scientific non-believer, the explanation is that the attempt at interpreting a random set of symbols has forced you to think outside box, thereby allowing you to get a deeper understanding of the facts you already possess, and making you better able to make a reasonable estimate of what will happen.
Damn that sucks. Fuckin' bitch.
Or, in this age of instant worldwide communication of ideas, we could revisit the concept of schools entirely. While in the past the schools and universities acted as repositories of knowledge as the world traveled through successive dark ages, today anyone at the push of a button can send an idea to the entire world. All the information is out there now - the next "dark age" won't be so much from a lack of information but rather from an abundance of it. People will be hard pressed sorting out the garbage from the useful. But the simplicity of the scientific method ("yes, but does it actually WORK? OK, prove it to me") makes it impossible for us to regress much even if all schools and scientists disappeared. Someone out there on their own would find out that it's possible to sort the pile into junk and useful stuff.
The greatest danger (as always) is censorship. If we lost both the information AND the schools, then I agree we would be up the proverbial creek.
Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
... whilst Feathers are on welfare and are drunken bums filling the jails.
Oh, you mean the people that were doing okay, relatively speaking, before the white man came along, stole their land, and introduced them to alcohol?
I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.
Nah, it's the science of separating fools from their money.
I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.
Lots of things can be scientific, measurable and repeatable. For instance the science of gullibility and human manipulation.
Math and Physics are just theory after all. It's wise to remember what the tools are doing and that they are just tools, approximations, ways of achieving something etc... they are not reality beyond that.
The placebo effect is a well known for instance, modern physics won't disagree that where not only holistic in body but that we are connected to everything in the universe, and each other. For instance this post now contains part of me and is based on what I have observed and what other people, animals and the planets have passed on to me. I am stardust, and the radiation from galaxies so distant that the best telescopes only just get a glimpse.
thank God the internet isn't a human right.
Yes, but what are you comparing? A religious fanatic with bombs in his belt with people that simply believe that the stars and planets can make influence in our every day life? Doesn't seem reasonable to me. No, astrology, yoga, chemotherapy and all this shit can't be harmful.
Relying on wikipedia for info is a bad idea
Can you point out where I said wiki was a good source of info? Or did I use as one source among others?
The 4000 year is bullshit anyone who actually reads their bible it has many genealogical records start adding dates it is closer to 6000.
One of those other sources did say 6000 years.
As for the Catholic church they were the ones who persecuted everyone who wasn't a part of their organisation
Just as other churches did. Many of those Christians who burned people on stakes were not Catholics. The Anglican church of England most definitely isn't Catholic but it persecuted others. The Puritans or Pilgrims came to America to escape persecution. Here's a link to a Library of Congress page about America as a refuge for those Christians from one church who were persecuted by Christians from other denominations. King James I "persecuted both Catholics and the extreme Protestant Puritans and Separatists." Yet when the Puritans set up the Massachusetts Bay Colony they in turn persecuted those not of their own church.
So, are you going to admit the truth or are you going to continue to persecute Catholics?
Falcon
Oh, not one of those links above are wiki links.
Should there be a Law?
Independent tests have shown astrology to be 100% accurate for predicting certain specific events, namely Easter and Ramadan.
There's other ways "Christian" has been used. Thomas Jefferson was a Deist who took the Christian Bible and cut out the sections dealing with miracles and the supernatural to create the Jefferson Bible. Jefferson believed Jesus was a great teacher, just not the "Son of God". Those who believe that have been considered Christians by some, though not all. Still another way was with Christian agnosticism.
Falcon
Should there be a Law?
Why the constant harping on evolution vs. creation? Isn't it a possible scenario and therefore scientifically valid that some super being designed and created the universe? Especially when numerous people experience communication with this super being on a daily basis? CmdrTaco and other slashdotters seem to have this wacky, religious and evangelistic idea that once we divest ourselves of a belief in God our lives will improve, our science will flourish, and we'll find the elusive cure for the common cold. Atheism and Theism are philosophically equal options. Evolutionism and Creationism, their origin science corollaries are scientifically equal options. We all actually know this. Evidence is and always has been in the eye of the beholder. The underlying belief system and deeper still, the worldview of devotees of both camps are the gatekeepers of how the evidence is interpreted. But no, the atheist agenda can't admit that! Never! We are pure scientists! You are religious pig dogs... Yes it's getting a little old...
Jedis are stupid. If they were so powerful, why couldn't they handle counseling for a kid who missed his mom?
We just had a great "testable moment" with this whole "New Zodiac" thing (http://newsfeed.time.com/2011/01/13/horoscope-hang-up-earth-rotation-changes-zodiac-signs/).
Ultimately, the Zodiac (any of them) works the same way a carnival fortune teller works on you... most people filter the negative and overemphasize the positive. Maybe this is a vestige of back when life was, for the most part, pretty grim -- when you spend all your day hunting, fishing, warring, whatever, those little positives deserve a special place.
Anyway, it's amusing to see those who actually, sorta-kinda at least, believe in this stuff, having to choose between that old sign -- having nothing to do with "the stars", that thing they've hung their hat on, perhaps for decades, and the (often) new sign, which is actually based on the stars. Mythology touted as science rarely has such a schism.
-Dave Haynie
No, these are not predictions, they are arbitrarily defined using astrological methods. For example, Easter Sunday is the first Sunday after the full moon following the northern hemisphere's vernal equinox. This is no more a prediction than a house's address predicts its existence.
Besides, this isn't even Astrology---it's Astronomy. Picking the date may be based on Astrology. Finding the date relies on Astronomy.
Isn't Astrology given as an example of a field that is more science like than ID simply because it can be falsified while ID cannot?
veliath
Bottom line: Making decisions based on demonstrably false data is dangerous.
Clever signature text goes here.
I've heard the same fact used as evidence for evolution by one person, and evidence for creation by another person.
The surprising thing is, from a logic point of view, both arguments made perfect sense.
I've also seen evolutionists get just as radically religious* about their beliefs, if not more so, than creationists.
I think an awful lot of it is interpretation, due to inherent bias from previous decisions.
(Religious: believing something to be true, and expounding it to others at every opportunity, despite evidence to the contrary, or no evidence whatsoever)
"City hall" in German is "Rathaus" Kinda explains a few things......